IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-09-09

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Venemodjszapi, I've already promised you to investigate it, so I will do it, don't worry... but right now I'm not emotionally stable enough for work.00:30
Venemoanyway, have a nice evening :)00:30
Venemogood night!00:30
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artemmDocScrutinizer, djszapi I managed to make a console app that downloads image and replaces wallpaper.png and everything works fine.. after reboot :) Do you know if there's a way to ask wallpaper to refresh its cache right now?01:18
DocScrutinizernfc, sorry01:18
DocScrutinizercheck dbus traffic while doing a wallpaper change the classic way01:18
artemmI am afraid I don't know how to do this01:19
artemmneed to make a research then01:19
DocScrutinizerdbus-monitor --system&  dbus-monitor --session01:19
artemmbesides I broke my wallpaper applet (deleted one file by mistake) :)01:20
artemmreflash should fix it, but I procrastinate with it01:20
DocScrutinizeryou'll want to run this dbus-monitor cmd from a user account, not root01:20
artemmthanks for the advice01:20
DocScrutinizerI suspect it'll show up on session bus if anything, but you never know01:21
DocScrutinizerprobably there'll be a friggin lot of traffic, so better redirect into a file for later analysis01:22
artemmI'll learn about dbus first :)01:22
artemmnever used it before01:22
artemmshows lot's of signals01:23
DocScrutinizernever mind, dbus is a bitch to undestand completely01:23
DocScrutinizerjust think of it like an alternative to TCP/IP packages, that hold an address and a command with parameters01:23
artemmI wonder how I could use the results of the observations01:24
artemmis it like I am supposed to notice gconf settings it uses?01:24
DocScrutinizeryou could create a dbus-send command with same parameters, to trigger the same function01:24
DocScrutinizerprobably there's a GUI or sth (sender) that requests some action to be done by a daemon or sth (receiver)01:25
artemmok, going to reflash N950 to make wallpaper applet work again, then will monitor01:26
DocScrutinizerthe wallpaper applet is your sender obviously01:26
artemmI guess I can somehow limit amount of output if I filter by sende01:26
DocScrutinizernot really, I guess01:27
artemmok, then will just dump everything to file and analyze on desktop01:27
DocScrutinizersender is encoded, it's just a symbolic handle name usually01:27
DocScrutinizerartemm: looking at will give you some idea about what it is all about01:28
* artemm checking01:29
artemmok, so that's just a text command based way to do IPC, apparently standard for linux and/or Qt01:31
artemmif wallpaper applet indeed commands its daemon through dbus, should be easy to copy01:31
artemmthat is if user apps are allowed to command the random daemons01:32
artemmI mean under developer mode they are certainly allowed to do it01:32
DocScrutinizerthat's a good point indeed01:32
artemm know that in aegis manifest you can specify lots of requests, but I don't know if there are some limits on what 3rd party app may request01:33
DocScrutinizeryou might need a proper manifest for aegis, to gain credentials needed to talk to the receiver01:33
artemmwhat's the point of aegis checks if I can get whatever I want if I just declare the need? :/01:34
artemmthough it's a different topic01:34
SpeedEvilIn principle, you can't.01:34
SpeedEvilIn principle, there is a robust team of people at the ovi store reading your sourcecode, and verifying.01:35
DocScrutinizersignal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=(null destination) serial=30 path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameOwnerChanged01:35
DocScrutinizer   string "org.freedesktop.thumbnails.Cache1"01:35
DocScrutinizer   string ""01:35
DocScrutinizer   string ":1.89"01:35
artemmis there some list of capabilities (in)accessible to 3rd party apps?01:35
artemmDocScrutinizer, is that for me?01:35
artemmthen I didn't understand it unfortunately01:36
DocScrutinizerjust noticed it in the spam the "save" on wallpaper got me01:36
artemmsome learning still to happen01:36
berndhswas dbus invented by a committee of state employees ?01:37
artemmit's a pity wallpaper applet codes are not open :)01:37
DocScrutinizersorry no wallpapers to select from here, so I have a hard time to create a dbus change-wallpaper event01:39
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DocScrutinizeron system bus there's quite a bit nevertheless01:42
DocScrutinizermethod call sender=:1.187 -> dest=org.gnome.GConf serial=23 path=/org/gnome/GConf/Database/0; interface=org.gnome.GConf.Database; member=Set                                                                                                                 string "/desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename"                                                                 struct {01:43
DocScrutinizer                                                                 int32 1                                                                                                                      string "/home/user/.wallpapers/-portrait-portrait-portrait-portrait.1.png"                                                }01:43
DocScrutinizerdnag didn't notice that amount of whitespace01:43
DocScrutinizerseems this is just for changing the gconf key content though01:44
DocScrutinizerafk o/01:45
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MohammadAGis the browser on the mandatory aegis list?01:50
artemmthese dbus interfaces. They are xmls that are located somewhere in file system, right?01:56
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djszapiartemm: could you manage your doubt ?06:33
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Venemomorning Harmattan guys :)08:32
Venemodjszapi, morning, how're you? :)08:33
djszapinmu ? :)08:36
Venemothe Nokia Hungary guy who said that he'll reflash my N950 also asked me to bring with me my apps08:36
Venemosince IRC chatter is not much of a showcase, I'm doing some packaging for the memory game :)08:37
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djszapiVenemo: so just remove the hkb somehow and you almost have an N9 :)08:44
Venemodjszapi, I _want_ that hwkb :P08:48
artemmI know more than one developer who were very excited about hwkb, but then confessed that haven't used it for a month or so :)08:51
artemmonscreen one is good08:51
artemmI use hwkb for terminal, but because that leaves more space to the text08:52
VenemoI'm still faster on the hwkb.08:52
Venemokeys on vkb are too tiny for me08:52
djszapiuhhh, stop ... stop ... it was just a joke from me hey, no flameway reason :)08:52
artemmhey, I do use hw kb too - no flamewars :)08:53
sandst1artemm: i join the group of admitting that vkb is nice :) makes n9 slim indeed wrt n95008:54
djszapihi sandst1 :)08:54
Venemowell OK! vkb is NICE, but hwkb is *NICER*! :P08:54
artemmyeah, hwkb is good, but.. not exactly super-good, yet taskes time to open + space08:54
sandst1djzsapi: hi08:55
Venemoartemm, maybe, but the vkb takes space from the screen.08:55
* artemm has question about gconf, but has to leave in 5-10 min.Got to delay until I'm back08:56
artemmis there such a thing as gconf-editor for harmattan?08:56
dm8tbrartemm: same for me, I rarely use the hwkb. I'd like to try the n9 for daily use to see if I can get used to it when there really is only vkb08:56
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djszapiartemm: well, you can always port it :)08:57
Venemodjszapi, admittedly though, the Harmattan vkb is the first vkb I've even tried using :)08:58
artemmdjszapi, definitely I could, but taking into account that my real question is that I don't know how to use gconftool-2 —set properly kind'of means porting would take quite some time :)08:58
djszapikinda true :)08:58
artemmgconf-editor would be a workaround for me - to see what exactly I am breaking with the wrong gconftool-2 use08:59
Venemodbus-explorer would also be very nice to have.08:59
artemmBTW, do you know if backup/restore saves gconf?09:00
djszapiVenemo: I mean kinda true for you :) Harmattan VKB rocks as I have been saying from the beginning :)09:00
* artemm is kinda tired reflashing device after breaking one gconf entry09:00
djszapiartemm: just taken a look at the dependencies, good luck with porting xD09:00
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djszapiartemm: yes, it does.09:02
Venemodjszapi :)09:02
artemmthat will shorten my trial cycle from 35 min to 5 min :)09:02
Venemodjszapi, here is what I miss from it: dedicated ? ! buttons (without tapping the symbol key), and proper öüóőúéáűí09:03
djszapiVenemo: you do not need symbols...09:07
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Venemodjszapi, . and , are already in the good place, but I frequently use ? as well.09:08
djszapistop asking muhaha :D09:09
Venemodjszapi, I miss öüóőúéáűí more... and don't take me wrong, it's good to have `˝ ¨ to "make" them, but still. it takes 2 taps.09:09
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djszapiyou do not really need symbols, just long tap on the characters, and you can actually see the rare characters.09:09
Venemoit's good, but it takes too long this way.09:11
Venemodjszapi, the missing dependency of irc-chatter was pkg-config, right?09:11
djszapinot right09:12
djszapiit does not take too much time at all, actually very fast, faster than switching09:13
djszapiyes, pkg-config is needed since you use it ? (I would personally heavily drop pkg-conf..)09:13
Venemopressing A and waiting for the menu to appear, then selecting Á takes longer than pressing ´ then pressing A.09:13
Venemodjszapi, I'm not sure where I'm using it (may be some qmakey stuff), but I don't really care.09:14
Venemoah yes!09:14
djszapinot for me, it is actually /much/ faster here.09:14
Venemothe Qt config file for applaincherd uses it.09:14
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Venemodjszapi, do you think the new sw version will be able to restore the backup made by the old version?09:41
djszapiVenemo: no clue about the old software, I used it at week 22, really ;)09:42
Venemodjszapi :P09:43
StskeepsVenemo: i have doubts, schemas change, etc09:44
Venemothat's why I exported my contacts also to a file... whatever... I hope one of them wil work09:44
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Venemois .vcf some standard format? if yes, I'll have a chance with that.09:46
djszapicontacts work oob09:47
Venemoall right then, I backed up my stuff09:48
djszapiso Santa Claus brings you a new sw ? :)09:48
VenemoI hope so, yeah09:48
DocScrutinizervcf is pretty much standard, yes09:53
Venemook then, so worst case I'll lose da backup, but will be able to export the vcf.09:53
djszapihi DocScrutinizer :)09:53
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DocScrutinizernext xmas I'll also send a leter to santa each day ;-D09:54
DocScrutinizeror is santa available via IRC only, nowadays?09:55
djszapino, I visited his office few months ago.09:55
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DocScrutinizerfor Venemo 's new sw?09:56
DocScrutinizerhe asked for *new* sw :-D09:56
djszapino, before the harmattan stuff, just for fun :)09:56
DocScrutinizeraaah good thing09:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I know a guy who knows a guy in Nokia Hungary, and he said "of course" when we asked him about flashing a new sw to my N950.09:57
DocScrutinizerhaha, maybe you'll be mega disappointed09:57
DocScrutinizerand this guy in hungary may feel embarrassed09:58
Venemowho knows, we'll see.10:02
Venemoanyway, will be back later10:02
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DocScrutinizerhahaha earthquake in Germany10:05
djszapiwhat is so funny about that ?10:05
DocScrutinizerjust unusual10:05
DocScrutinizerwhat's big news here wouldn't even cause the people to wake up or stop watching Simpsons, in USA westcoast. And in Japan... LOL10:08
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* DocScrutinizer wonders how Japan implemented that quake warning service via GSM/$RANDOM_CARRIER[WCDMA|*]10:13
DocScrutinizerduh, forgot to check if HARM/N950 supports SMSCB now, finally10:14
DocScrutinizerI'd put all my money on "No"10:15
DocScrutinizerand no patching of a bug in libisi* this time, thanks security10:16
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: at least they do that network message thing which IIRC is also CB based11:19
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JaffaMorning, all11:38
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: yeah, possibly12:02
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kkitoanyone knows if is it possible to use meego nokia components in Qtcreator simulator? because right now i need to test every app that use those components directly into the phone, and is so slow to deploy :(12:11
djszapiso slow to deploy means about 1 alias here.12:13
alteregoYou could edit the .qml files on device like me :)12:13
kkitodjszapi: what do you mean with "about 1 alias here" ?12:15
djszapikkito: I set up an alias for few commands, that is12:15
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djszapialso, if you do not put the qml file into the resource stuff, you can edit it on the device.12:15
kkitodjszapi: ah ok, but ofcourse thats not a good solution...12:16
alteregokkito: during the dev process it's pretty good.12:16
alteregoMy apps usually check for the presence of a qml dir, if not found uses the in built ones defined in .qrc12:17
djszapiyou might probably add some debug flag..12:18
djszapisince doint it in a released sw, well, that is just pretty bad ;)12:18
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evilJazzkkito, check here: and skip the compilation of 4.7.4 if you already upgraded to Qt SDK 1.1.3. That works for me with Desktop Qt,  albeit not in the Simulator12:33
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Venemo_N950mwahahahahaaa... DocScrutinizer's prediction was right12:36
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: ?12:36
Venemo_N950they can't flash new sw to the n950 because of some certificate issue12:36
MohammadAGthe world ends tonight?!12:36
Venemo_N950and of course, they can't obtain the necessary certificate either12:37
MohammadAGwho's they12:37
StskeepsVenemo_N950: errm12:37
StskeepsVenemo_N950: can i claim bullcrap?12:37
Venemo_N950they = nokia hungary12:37
Stskeepswhy are you asking nokia hungary about a developer device?12:37
Venemo_N950because I have some connections there, thought they can help12:38
achipaVenemo_N950: they cannot flash internal firmware to your devkit, if that's what they tried12:38
Venemo_N950well, the guy said that he will be looking for it and contact me... but...12:39
Venemo_N950I have my doubts12:39
djszapiachipa: yes, he has been told about that :p12:39
djszapithat is why I was wondering why this illegal stuff could be considered at all.12:39
Venemo_N950achipa, dunno what they tried12:39
Venemo_N950but this is plain evil12:39
achipathe point is you have to have the right firmware for the right device, you cannot mix random firmwares with random devices12:39
Venemo_N950how am I supposed to develop for the N9, if I can't test my apps on its software?12:40
hiemanshuachipa: the right firmware (on the download page) wont even flash for me because of a cert issue12:40
djszapihiemanshu: it was fixed..12:40
hiemanshudjszapi: when?12:40
djszapiright after your complain, I guess.12:40
Venemo_N950so anyway, I want a new software, and I want it before N9 release so that I can ensure that my stuff works12:40
achipaVenemo_N950: you can test on it's software, you just cannot flash R&D builds/firmwares to public devices, that's all12:41
Venemo_N950I don't want rd builds12:41
hiemanshuachipa: so when can we have one that will be flashable :P12:41
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djszapihiemanshu: dm8tbr12:42
achipaVenemo_N950: well tell them to give you an OEM one, then (which would of course get them fired, because that is not supposed to be given away either)12:42
Venemo_N950I just want the version the N9 will come out with, that's all. and I'm told that that version is already finalized12:42
achipahiemanshu: soon TM :)12:42
hiemanshuachipa: that is what you have been saying for a while :P12:42
Venemo_N950achipa, as I said. how do you expect me to develop for it if I can't test?12:42
djszapiVenemo_N950: why should you developer before a publicly available image ? I fail to understand.12:43
Summeliwhere's the newest image?-)12:43
achipaVenemo_N950: we don't expect you to develop with things we didn't release yet :)12:43
hiemanshuachipa: someone here does12:43
matrixxisn't there N9's with later firmware on RDA?12:43
Venemo_N950achipa, in fact, the guy said he has a newer version on his n9 than the final public release. I _just_ want the final public release12:44
hiemanshuwith angry birds!12:44
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djszapimatrixx: the cert key is hardware specific, you cannot just grab the firmware :)12:44
dm8tbrVenemo_N950: I'd expect that N950 firmware update will coincide with N9 sales availability, certainly not earlier12:44
dm8tbrjust a guess12:44
Venemo_N950achipa, I want my app to be in the ovi store at N9 release day.12:44
matrixxdjszapi: umm, don't know what you mean. I just meant that can't you try your software with RDA N9 :)12:45
achipaVenemo_N950: nokia of course makes builds quite often, so of course someone with the right access level can of course have nightlies or whatnot, but that does not mean that the 'final' software has been QAd, certified, checked, marked for release, etc12:45
djszapimatrixx: you can, but you cannot get the image from that and flash onto your device.12:45
matrixxdjszapi: of course you don't12:45
dm8tbrdjszapi: nobody said they would12:45
achipano idea why I wrote of course 3x in a single sentence12:45
SpeedEvilIs RDA n9 on latest?12:46
leinirachipa: really, really, /really/ sure of its obviousness? ;)12:46
Venemo_N950dm8tbr, so, if not earlier, how can I test my stuff on a N9? if I can't, how can I upload to ovi store so that my app will be available on public release day 112:46
dm8tbrVenemo_N950: RDA12:46
djszapileinir: quite.12:46
dm8tbrremote device access12:46
Venemo_N950rda is slow12:47
djszapiis this RDA common or can it be personalized ?12:47
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djszapiI mean sometimes I need a very specific environment, so that is not really go for that12:47
SpeedEvilIt stays in the state it was when the last person accessed it12:47
SpeedEvilIncluding if they wedge it12:47
Venemo_N950rda is too slow for my taste12:47
achipaVenemo_N950: the easiest way is of course to apply to a developer program (NDA et al) they you would have firmware, etc access way before 'the world'12:47
djszapithat too.12:47
SpeedEvilAnd it's really not suitable for any but button-pressing APIs12:47
djszapithat is not really nice then :/12:48
Venemo_N950achipa, I thought I'm in a developer program.12:48
achipaVenemo_N950: barring that, you have to follow the 'real' releases - Ovi store already accepts N9 apps, even done with the experimental target12:48
achipaVenemo_N950: there are developer programs and there are developer programs :)12:48
DocScrutinizerRDA is useless for serious testing12:49
Venemo_N950achipa, I also have an nda about not disclosing any deficiencies. but as I said, I don't want any internal stuff, just the final release12:49
achipaVenemo_N950: as said, it doesn't exist yet, if it did, it would be out12:49
achipaif someone says they have the final, they are making things up12:49
Venemo_N950and don't tell me that the final sw isn't QAd one week before the public release12:49
djszapiVenemo_N950: you are missing the testing bit.12:51
achipathe point is it becomes final effectively on release - until then, it can be revoked, superseeded, etc12:51
djszapiVenemo_N950: heavy heavy testing, and as achipa said, if there is something important, they fix it before the release.12:51
djszapior at least they know it in advance.12:51
kkitoevilJazz: thx, i will try later :)12:52
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Venemo_N950achipa, in this case, how can he say he has newer sw than the final?12:53
djszapiwho is "he" ?12:53
djszapithe guy who wanted to make illegal thing ? :D12:53
macmaNthey're all liars and thieves12:54
macmaNthose illegal thing makers12:54
macmaNand responsible for global warming12:54
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achiparan away12:54
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djszapiVenemo_N950: seriously, do not deal with that guy, just wait 1 or so week. That is the safest and legal way of doing it. I do not think one week or so is worth risking it.12:55
Venemo_N950sorry, I got disconnected12:55
Venemo_N950as I said... I'm not looking for anything illegal.12:55
achipaVenemo_N950: probably wants to show off :) since there is no final release (yet)12:56
Venemo_N950but I still don't understand all this secrecy regarding the softwares12:56
achipaVenemo_N950: if it has not been signed off as public release by Nokia, distributing/using it *is* illegal12:56
achipa(company property, yadda yadda)12:56
djszapiVenemo_N950: don't you find it funny there is no public image yet, but one hungarian guy will solve everything for you ? :)12:56
Venemo_N950what happened to 'release early, release often'?12:57
Stskeepsnever been the case for nokia12:57
djszapiyou can see the result of that in case of meego.... complete disappointments almost ever week.12:57
Stskeepsat least externally12:57
achipaVenemo_N950: that's for sources, which you sort of do have, gitorious and all12:58
Venemo_N950djszapi, wouldn't surprise me.12:58
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achipa'real' firmwares simply cannot be made on that basis due to the legal/procedural questions involved12:58
Venemo_N950djszapi, you are a hungarian guy too, and you've also solved lots of stuff for me12:58
Ans5iis this the ice cream bar?12:58
achipano, that's at #android12:59
Ans5iok thanks :)12:59
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djszapiVenemo_N950: lot of certicaite and prodecural stuff as achipa said :)12:59
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Ans5ijust kidding. :)13:00
djszapido not forget, it is just a developer device, so not even the main target of the daily/weekly happenings about the certificate.13:00
Venemo_N950achipa, I believe you13:00
Venemo_N950djszapi, achipa, again, I don't want to do anthing illegal, just an opportunity to test on new sw13:01
Venemo_N950with a device13:01
djszapiVenemo_N950: but you will have this opportunity :)13:02
achipaVenemo_N950: a little patience will make it not be illegal :) but I understand the frustration - it's not that far off now (yes, yes, soon TM, you know the drill)13:03
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djszapiVenemo_N950: you can review my irc chatter patches in the meantime ;-)13:05
Venemo_N950so anyway... achipa, how can I register to such a program that you described?13:06
achipafor example through your good friends at Nokia Developer :)13:07
achipathough such arrangements are mostly reserved for companies13:07
Venemo_N950achipa, oh.13:09
Venemo_N950achipa, are you my good friend? :)13:09
achipaare you launchpad pro member with a good Ovi store background ? :)13:09
hiemanshuachipa: what is the equivalent of that in beers? :P13:10
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achipabut anyway, you can request that sort of thing through the launchpad program, but if one just says "I wantz new firmw4r3zz" then it won't get far. Say "I'm the publisher of X Y and Z on Ovi Store and would like to test/use features in latest firmwares and willing to sign the necessary agreements" and it's a different story13:12
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Venemo_N950I just want to give tested apps to my users13:14
matrixxachipa: how long is the queue to be accepted as launchpad member?13:14
matrixxachipa: been waiting very long now :)13:14
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Venemo_N950not interested in internal testing builds...13:15
Venemo_N950I can make my own bugs if I want bugs...13:15
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achipamatrixx: way too long, I know13:15
matrixxachipa: ok, so, a bit more waiting then :)13:16
achipamatrixx: sadly yes, it's not something I can affect, there are zillions of applications and there is apparently a lot of manual work involved13:16
matrixxachipa: I know, just took my chances ;)13:17
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matrixxachipa: I've actually finished the project I applied with, I think I need to make another application with a newer project13:17
achipajust name your company "Extreme Artists" and use the short EA everywhere, that usually helps ;)13:18
matrixxhaha :D13:18
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hiemanshuachipa: I should start a company called minisoft then :P13:24
hiemanshuor macrosoft :P13:24
hiemanshuoh wait, someone beat me to it13:25
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matrixxI guess there'll be already Nanosoft, Minisoft, Midisoft etc already13:26
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Ans5ibanana inc13:39
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Venemo_N950fvck, n950 disconnected again13:42
SpeedEvilMictusoft. Or would that be taking the piss?13:46
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kkitodevelop with qtcreator+qml+n950 sucks... I expect a good update on the official sdk in a future :(14:43
kkitoit is weird that i cannot test a simple fucking app in my desktop before deploying into the device14:44
* SpeedEvil suspects that may be optimistic.14:45
SpeedEvilNokia are not putting their full corporate effort behing harmattan.14:45
SpeedEvilA large number of people have been laid off.14:46
SpeedEvilI'd like to believe that it'll happen, of course.14:46
kkitoI expend a lot of time in Qt creator las weeks and I got nothing working properly14:46
kkitoAnd i am not a newbe programmer...14:46
evilJazzwell, did you try the link I posted earlier?14:46
kkitoevilJazz there are only builds for linux14:47
kkitoand i was not able to build it for windows easy14:47
kkitoanyways i will try in home because in my linux laptot later14:47
sroedal_kkito: if you use raw Qt APIs your application should run on deskotp and the device14:47
hiemanshubut no qt-components14:48
hiemanshukkito: ofc you can use Ubuntu which has qt-components14:48
evilJazzkkito, well, that is why at work we migrated to developing in Linux, because Qt Creator on Windows is such a pain, mostly because the MinGW toolchain is ridiculously slow14:49
hiemanshukkito: also changing to works for simple UIs14:49
hiemanshu(and using simulator)14:49
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kkitobut if I want to develop a harmattan app, I want to use harmattan api/qt-component. Using plain Qt or symbian is not a good solution14:56
hiemanshukkito: the symbian components are very similar to the qt components14:59
evilJazzkkito: What about a temporary solution like Virtual Box / VMWare Player on Windows and some Linux distro like Ubuntu running in a VM with the Qt SDK installed?15:01
jreznikwhat about scratchbox? I saw how-to connect it to Qt Creator (have to try it yet)... it's still Linux but...15:05
kkitoevilJazz: I have a laptop with ubuntu, I will try later15:18
kkitoAre there any filter for software published in ovi store? Because i was looking for apps and I spot "nfs most wanted", ofcourse it is not the EA game, it is a "generic blog reader" with some info about the game. It costs 5 euros....15:22
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djszapihiemanshu: "/set user_name" parsing is still missing..15:41
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hiemanshudjszapi: you mean /nick ?15:52
djszapino, I mean user_name15:52
hiemanshudjszapi: you mean ident?15:53
MohammadAGhow do I fill a list model with data dynamically?15:53
MohammadAGthe example only shows static stuff15:53
djszapihiemanshu: no, I do not15:53
hiemanshudjszapi: what does it do?15:54
djszapiset the user name.15:54
hiemanshubut we have ident, so its useless15:55
hiemanshudjszapi: what exactly is user_name here?15:55
djszapiuser name, not sure what you do not understand.15:56
hiemanshudjszapi: you mean where it says ~ircchatte@<ip> has joined?15:57
djszapino, I do not.15:57
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, see irc chatter code15:58
hiemanshudjszapi: then what do you mean? sorry I am unable to understand15:58
djszapihiemanshu: not sure, what you understand user name is user name.15:58
djszapihow could I describe it better ?15:58
djszapi* do not understand15:58
MohammadAGVenemo_N950, MTF15:58
djszapicould you please ask what you do not understand ?15:58
hiemanshudjszapi: what is user name? and what does it do?15:59
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, mtf is deprecated15:59
djszapi1) user name is user name 2) It is used for authentication on the given server.15:59
MohammadAGin MeeGo 1.315:59
MohammadAG= I don't care15:59
MohammadAGit's the sanest UX toolkit15:59
Venemo_N950djszapi, you mean NickServ user name15:59
djszapiVenemo_N950: no, I do not.16:00
Venemo_N950djszapi, ok.16:00
hiemanshusorry dont have the time to deal with this right now16:00
* hiemanshu gets back to work16:00
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, if you say so16:00
djszapiVenemo_N950: so please please please implement this /set user_name16:00
djszapiwe are unable to join our internal IRC channel otherwise....which is kinda big lost.16:01
djszapiactually a blocker for the usage for me.16:01
Venemo_N950I see16:01
radiofreedjszapi: by user name you mean the "lpapp" part from ~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp ?16:03
MohammadAGIRC chatter takes 5 seconds to start16:03
MohammadAGan MTF app takes 1s16:03
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djszapiradiofree: no, it is not freenode.16:03
djszapinot even any kde related.16:04
radiofreeoh right, so it's some irc server command?16:04
djszapiMohammadAG: my telepathy-idle based IRC client is MTF based ;-)16:04
djszapinot usable yet though :p16:04
djszapiradiofree: nope16:04
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radiofree so it's ident?16:05
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hiemanshu<hiemanshu> djszapi: you mean ident? <djszapi> hiemanshu: no, I do not16:07
djszapiradiofree: not in that sense, how the identification works on freenode via nickserver16:08
hiemanshuFreenode is nick based16:08
hiemanshuso are almost all IRC networks16:08
radiofree ./msg nickserv identify USERNAME password?16:08
djszapiradiofree: but sort of yes, but not freenode wise, so it is not like that it can be hacked around.16:08
radiofreeso you can identify as djszapi even if you are djszapi___16:08
djszapimmm, you actually can.16:09
radiofreeyes, that command works16:09
radiofreei'm just trying to figure out what your definition of  "user_name" is in the context of irc?16:09
hiemanshuor just group all your nicks16:09
djszapiradiofree: except that, that is much longer16:10
djszapiwhich is a pain on a phone with VKB like this.16:10
djszapiradiofree: mmm, it is not "my definition" blol :)16:10
djszapiit is an existing command in irssi.16:10
radiofreeok, but for that command username is actually nick16:11
djszapimy nick is different from the user name16:11
djszapisince people can have different identifies on different servers ;)16:12
hiemanshudjszapi: did you read the irssi docs?16:12
radiofreedjszapi: yes, you register with a NICK16:13
djszapiradiofree: Also, "msg nickserv identify USERNAME password and then connection did not work for this server.16:13
radiofreeyou register that nick16:13
hiemanshudjszapi: did you read the irssi docs?16:13
djszapiwell, I tend to call the nick what I see on the channel.16:13
radiofreeusername needs to be the nick you registered with16:13
djszapihiemanshu: please stop spamming :)16:13
radiofreeand it does work on this server16:13
hiemanshudjszapi: then answer me16:13
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djszapiradiofree: no, that is user name, nick name is what you set on the channel by using "/nick".16:14
radiofree-NickServ- radiofree_!c0647829@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has just authenticated as you (RadioFree)16:14
djszapiradiofree: but as of now, nickserv identification did not work at all16:14
djszapiso that was actually breaking the connection16:14
hiemanshu/SET user_name Your username, if you have ident enabled this doesn't affect anything <--- from the docs16:14
djszapihiemanshu: except that, I do not have ident enabled for a server I am trying to join :D16:15
radiofreedjszapi: you register a NICK with nickserve, not a "username"16:15
djszapithat would be the first ident...16:15
radiofreei registered with radiofree16:15
hiemanshudjszapi: ident is enabled by default, if it is empty, its ircchatter16:15
radiofreeif i want to go into a secure channel based on my regsitration16:15
djszapiradiofree: sorry, but I am not keen on calling nick the channel name and also the registration name16:15
radiofreei /msg nickserve identify radiofree pass16:15
djszapiI think it is good to separate them with differet names.16:15
radiofreedjszapi: it doesn't matter what you like to call it, that's exactly what it is16:16
djszapibut at any rate, point is that, I do not see working solution apart from "/set user_name".16:16
radiofreeyou're not registering a "user name" with nickserv, you're registering a nick16:16
djszapiso if it is not there otherwise blocker for quite a few people (including myself)16:16
djszapiit is called user_name in irssi, so I tend to use it that way, period.16:16
radiofreethe working solution is for you to do /msg nickserve identify whater_the_hell_you_want_to_call_this_but_its_the_nickname_you_registered_with pass16:16
djszapi16:13 < djszapi> radiofree: Also, "msg nickserv identify USERNAME password and then connection did not work for this server.16:17
radiofreejeeze louise16:18
djszapi* /msg16:18
radiofreereplace "USERNAME" djszapi16:18
berndhsit's called "NickServ" because it registers nicks16:18
hiemanshudjszapi: I have been using IRC since I was 6, I still dont get what you mean16:18
djszapiYou are trying to say that I did not replace ? Thank you, really kind of you.16:18
radiofreeand as hiemanshu has mentioned, groups are your friend /msg nickserv help group16:18
radiofree_that command does work on this server16:19
djszapiso you keep repeating I should type a long command instead of using one shorter one on the phone ?16:19
djszapiok I am out of this...16:19
radiofree_[16:10] -NickServ- You are now identified for RadioFree.16:19
radiofreeand on my side -NickServ- radiofree_!c0647829@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has just authenticated as you (RadioFree)16:19
djszapi16:17 < djszapi> 16:13 < djszapi> radiofree: Also, "msg nickserv identify USERNAME password and then connection did not work for this server.16:19
djszapithis as in the server I tried to join.16:19
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djszapias i I have been saying from the beginning, it is not freenode.16:20
hiemanshudjszapi: so you want to /set user_name /msg nickserv identify password instead of /msg nickserv identify user_name password ?16:20
hiemanshudjszapi: what is the IRC server on it?16:20
djszapihiemanshu: do not be tiresome pls.16:20
djszapiI told more times, that did not work...16:20
radiofreewhat was the error?16:20
hiemanshudjszapi: do not be tiresome pls.16:21
hiemanshutell me why not16:21
djszapiradiofree: no connection16:21
djszapiit is as simple as that16:21
hiemanshudjszapi: when you code this part in *your* client, I would like to see the code16:21
radiofreedjszapi: ok, so this isn't nickserv based authentication?16:21
djszapi... that is what I *have* been saying from the beginning, yes...16:22
radiofreeusername, therefore, is your ident16:22
radiofree(~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp): Papp Laszlo16:23
djszapithat is what I have been saying, is for authentication..16:23
radiofreeyour username is lpapp16:23
djszapiuser name is user name, indeed. You were saying the opposite, it is nick name.16:23
berndhsdjszapi: what server is this on ?16:24
radiofreebecause i thought you were referring to nick based identification!16:24
djszapiberndhs: NDA16:24
radiofreeyou explicitly said it *wasn't* your ident16:24
djszapiradiofree: that is *not* true16:24
berndhsdjszapi: what does that mean ? Non-Disclosure Agreement ?16:24
djszapiI said afterwards actually, it is not like how freenode works.16:24
radiofree <hiemanshu> djszapi: you mean ident? <djszapi> hiemanshu: no, I do not16:25
djszapi16:08 < djszapi> radiofree: not in that sense, how the identification works on freenode via nickserver16:25
djszapi16:08 < djszapi> radiofree: but sort of yes, but not freenode wise, so it is not like that it can be hacked around.16:25
hiemanshufreenode doesn't care about your ident16:25
radiofreea private server, however, does16:25
djszapithat is what I have been saying from the beginning, indeede16:25
hiemanshuand what does that private server run?16:25
fiferboymgedmin: ping?16:26
djszapinice to you finally realized it...16:26
hiemanshudjszapi: I told you it was the ident, you said no16:26
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djszapino, you told me it is "useless" because I can use ident16:28
djszapiand no, it is /quite/ useful and does not block me actually anymore if it could work.16:28
hiemanshu<hiemanshu> djszapi: you mean ident? <djszapi> hiemanshu: no, I do not16:29
hiemanshuhow many more times do I have to paste that?16:29
djszapihave you read me extension to that sentence, or are you just a selective reader ?16:29
hiemanshuI am blind16:29
hiemanshuanyways, done with work16:29
* hiemanshu goes home16:29
radiofreedjszapi: you didn't extend it, you just continued to say "no, its not that, it's user name"16:30
djszapi16:25 < djszapi> 16:08 < djszapi> radiofree: not in that sense, how the identification works on freenode via nickserver16:31
djszapi16:25 < djszapi> 16:08 < djszapi> radiofree: but sort of yes, but not freenode wise, so it is not like that it can be hacked around.16:31
berndhsdjszapi: what server software does that server use ?16:32
djszapi16:24 < djszapi> berndhs: NDA16:32
berndhsdjszapi:I am not familiar with the NDA server, what is it ?16:32
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djszapinvm :)16:32
berndhsdjszapi: or is this the CIA running it ?16:33
berndhsdjszapi: or some stupid company secret ?16:33
djszapiberndhs: read the opic please16:33
djszapi"...No discussion that requires NDA please!..."16:33
berndhsdjszapi: right so you are discussing soemthing that requires NDA, stop it16:33
djszapiit is a general client feature independently from any company server.16:34
berndhsdjszapi: don't spread incomplete information and hints16:34
matrixxdoesn't matter which server explicitly, many private servers use the ident and password to enable access16:35
berndhsdjszapi: if you want some software tailored to your company's special secret requirements you should only talk within your company in secure channels16:35
radiofreedjszapi: so then, what happens when you set your ident in irc-chatter?16:35
djszapiradiofree: I cannot.16:35
djszapithat command is missing, and I need to main indent for freenode.16:35
djszapi* the main ident16:35
djszapiI might try it out with the main ident, but this command is needed anyway16:36
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radio3yes you can16:37
djszapiwell, this command does not work here.16:37
radiofreedjszapi: now i'm confused, you said you weren't talking about freenode16:38
* radiofree was confused before, even more so now16:38
djszapihere as in at my place where I am setting, aka. on my end, but for sure with the internal server16:38
radiofreeso you're connecting to a private server, ok16:39
radiofreeand you need to authenticate with that16:39
djszapiyes, why would I try freenode ? ;)16:39
radiofreewhy mention freenode at all then?16:39
radiofree<djszapi> that command is missing, and I need to main indent for freenode.16:39
radiofreewhat the hell does that mean?16:39
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djszapiit means that "/set user_name" is not implemented, and there is a main ident screen (actually the first page after launching).16:40
djszapiand I put my freenode ident therein.16:40
djszapibut nope, it does not work if I use my internal ident.16:40
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radiofreewhat is the error?16:41
djszapino error at all...."Connecting page".... irc chatter does not really have any good logging yet.16:41
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radiofreedjszapi: pmo?16:43
radiofreedjszapi: you're right, the logging isn't great :)16:43
radiofreeis there a command line option for more logging?16:44
djszapimaybe one for "lagging" ;)16:45
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djszapiI do not know, but I would certaily use my phone for servers like that ( which is even related to my daily work )16:45
radiofreehmm when changing something i only get this is the first connection, and it succeeded16:46
radiofreewhen it clearly didn't...16:46
djszapisorry ?16:47
radiofreewhere's the source for libqtircclient-qt?16:49
radiofreeheh "Your client does not have permission to get URL /p/libircclient-qt/ from this server. That’s all we know"16:50
berndhsradiofree: maybe you didnt sign the NDA :)16:51
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radiofreeanyway, if you can set the ident, and set the server password, then i'd guess it's a bug in libircclient-qt16:52
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Venemook, this is my fault mostly.16:57
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maxwhey guys...any guesses on when n9 will be released?16:58
radiofreeVenemo: the closed libircclient-qt or the whoe user_name debate ;)16:58
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Venemoradiofree, my app uses an old version of the lib. reason: the new one wasn't ready when I began the development.16:58
radiofreeis it closed source?16:59
Venemoradiofree, and since the new version is now complete, the author deleted the old.16:59
Venemonope, it's LGPL16:59
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Venemoobviously not closed.16:59
radiofreehow come i have to login to google when i go to /p/libircclient-qt, and when i do, i get 403ed!16:59
Venemoradiofree, the code was hosted on google code long ago. it was moved to bitbucked some time ago, and now it's on gitorious17:00
Venemoradiofree, the new version is available at but I haven't started using this one yet17:00
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hiemanshudjszapi: so you are bound by your NDA to say 'I use something, but I cannot say what, just fix it' ?17:01
radiofreeVenemo: thanks17:01
Venemoradiofree, the author is on #communi and he usually responds to pings, but usually not immediately17:03
hiemanshuwait, wasn't communi a client before?17:03
Venemohiemanshu, yes it was17:04
hiemanshuhe moved it out of bitbucket17:04
Venemohiemanshu, he renamed the library to communi and decided to refocus his effort on the library instead of the client17:04
hiemanshuVenemo: still 0.5, no newer version17:04
Venemohiemanshu, newer version is
Venemohiemanshu, this is a major API break though.17:06
hiemanshuah ok17:07
hiemanshuVenemo: so are we restarting or leaving it? :P17:07
Venemohiemanshu, the new version is very QML friendly, so we will start using it eventually, according to my plans :)17:07
hiemanshuVenemo: I might be out of action for a bit, still no net at new place, sitting in a barren room in the old house :P17:08
Venemohiemanshu, omg17:08
hiemanshuyeah, only thing in this house is a bottle of water, a router, a laptop and me17:09
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radiofreeis there any flag to print debug output from libircclient-qt?17:10
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Venemoradiofree, not sure, never checked. I think you should ask the author at this point17:13
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djszapi17:01 < hiemanshu> djszapi: so you are bound by your NDA to say 'I use something, but I cannot say what, just fix it' ? -> please please read back, the issue is quite clearly and not related to any NDA.17:29
hiemanshu<berndhs> djszapi: what server software does that server use ? <djszapi> 16:24 < djszapi> berndhs: NDA17:29
hiemanshudjszapi: ^17:29
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djszapiI did not answer for an NDA question according to the topic. I still stick by. That question has nothing to do with the real issue though.17:30
GeneralAntillesThose of you who saw Zemlin's keynote at the last MeeGo Conf, do you remember him saying something about a fire?17:32
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MohammadAGdjszapi, is there a way to have something like a grid of items?17:34
MohammadAGQListWidget helped with that on the N90017:34
berndhsdjszapi: i was going to look up what the API of that server software, since the requirements are completely unclear from the discussion here17:35
MohammadAGright now I'm doing this but it's not working
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: PM17:37
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djszapiMohammadAG: Have you tried MGridItem ?17:43
djszapiberndhs: does not matter, what makes more sense to check out is actually the irssi implementation anyway. You do not need NDA server implementation details for helping with this, really.17:44
djszapiMohammadAG: like the example in widgetsgallery btw ?17:44
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djszapi -> grid*.{h,cpp}17:44
MohammadAGdjszapi, more like buttons17:48
MohammadAGI don't want a model17:48
djszapiI am afraid, I cannot help about that, I would just use a very simple model.17:49
radiofreedjszapi, Venemo: think I found the problem17:56
djszapiradiofree: it is pitty I cannot use ident arguement for the connection command in irssi. That would be a good way, and set it in some configuration, or at least an for it.17:59
djszapi* alias for it18:00
radiofreedjszapi: I think it's more related to SSL handshaking18:00
radiofreejust let me confirm18:00
djszapiwhat I have just mentioned is actually not related to original issue, it is a bit different one ;)18:00
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radiofreeyes yes, but since it only supports on server anyway, using ident isn't so bad18:01
faenilheya :D18:01
faenilupdates? anything good happened :D18:01
djszapiwell, global settings is rather bad actually since you can have different ident for different servers. Actually, that is the case with me.18:02
hiemanshufaenil: depends on your definition of good :P18:02
radiofreewell it's the global settings for one server isn't it? :)18:02
djszapiit is not.18:02
faenilwell anything "relevant"? :D18:02
djszapiin irssi, you set it one, and any server you try to connect to, will be the one identification happens against.18:03
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hiemanshufaenil: none, now go back to the corner :P18:03
djszapiradiofree: meanwhile if you had such an option for the connect command, it would be local scope for that only server18:03
elpurifaenil: your game ready?18:03
faenilpassed the exam :D18:04
faenilgame's not finished, I have a basic menu and stuff18:04
faenilthere are 10 levels, the game logic is there18:04
faenilI was thinking about releasing it as a tech demo or something for now :18:05
* RST38h moos evilly18:05
radiofreedjszapi: can you try the latest version to see if that works?18:05
radiofreeapparently it works18:05
faenilnow I have to study for another exam (CPUs, multithreading, pipelining, clock cycles lenghts and stuff) and then I'll continue the game (after 16th)18:05
djszapiradiofree: well, I have newer than the latest.18:05
djszapiand it did not work .18:06
radiofreei just built it from git18:06
radiofreethats what i mean by the latest18:06
djszapiyes, I have that + other patches here locally.18:06
faenilelpuri: anyway, thank you very much, it's thank to you if I could make it to the exam with something playable :D and djszapi, and many other people :)18:06
npmwhat's the portable way of finding out what language environment a  Qt or QML prog is using?18:08
npmaka if i port to another platform that suports qt, $LANG might not be there18:08
MohammadAGdjszapi, tell me you have an idea on how to hide the scroll indicator18:10
faenilisn't it a scroll decorator element?18:10
faenilvisible = false?18:10
npm ??18:11
faenilcan u read me guys?18:12
hiemanshufaenil: no18:12
elpurifaenil: yeah18:12
elpuri50% packet loss18:13
faenildid you read18:14
faenilelpuri: anyway, thank you very much, it's thank to you if I could make it to the exam with something playable :D and djszapi, and many other people :)18:14
faeniljust making sure it arrived lol18:14
Ans5inpm you might want to use harmattan's own locale stuff18:14
faenilbe back later, don't like packet loss xD18:16
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MohammadAGoh nice, no web view in MTF18:19
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djszapiMohammadAG: the reason is obvious for that, though and understandable.18:23
hiemanshuMohammadAG: just use QML18:24
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djszapihiemanshu: qml will not be any better if MTF does not have it...18:24
hiemanshudjszapi: there is webview in QML18:25
djszapiwhich is not look'n'feel thanks...18:25
hiemanshuYou can use WebKit 2 or 118:25
djszapiwe can use pure Qt in cpp as well....18:25
hiemanshuugh, why do I even bother18:25
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MohammadAGQGraphicsWebView works18:37
MohammadAGhiemanshu, MTF is faster :p18:37
djszapiMohammadAG: what is your application supposed to do ? What use case do you try to cover ?18:38
hiemanshuMohammadAG: you mean startup18:39
MohammadAGSociality MTF18:40
MohammadAGno, I mean everything18:40
MohammadAGit uses less RAM too18:40
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hiemanshuless RAM doesn't mean faster :P18:40
MohammadAGI said too, not that it's faster cause it uses RAM18:41
npmelpuri and Ans5i thanks... for what method do i call to get back language names like "en-US" "en-GB" etc18:41
djszapihiemanshu: however less RAM usage can mean faster though after all18:42
MohammadAGI find it easier to develop in C++ too18:43
MohammadAGrather than developing in some interpretted language that uses a compiled backend18:43
djszapiI think C++ is easier because of that, and also because it is not moving target like QML with couple of missing things.18:44
MohammadAGalso, most porting is copy & paste with MTF18:44
* RST38h decided against MTF18:44
RST38hDamn thing requires changing all the code from Q* to M*, making it useless for anything but Harmattan18:45
MohammadAGRST38h, hey, Qt C++ code was promised as write once deploy everywhere18:45
MohammadAGthe way I say it, is write once, rewrite another time, deploy everywhere18:45
RST38hMohammad: and it more or less works this way18:46
RST38hMTF stuff will not =(18:46
MohammadAGwe had to rewrite to QML anyway18:46
djszapiqt components does not work this way yet18:46
RST38hQML actually has separate sets of components for Meego and Harmattan18:46
RST38hprobably for desktop as well18:46
djszapino, that is components, not the language itself.18:47
RST38hdoes not matter to the app programmer18:47
djszapinot even qt quick.18:47
djszapiActually it matters a lot.18:47
RST38hwhatever part of the framework changes, you sitll have to redo your code for each platform18:47
djszapisince qt components does not allow me to write cross-platform application yet.18:47
* achipa thinks about blogging about cross-platform vs platform-agnostic18:47
RST38has I said, you are fucked either way18:48
MohammadAGRST38h, exactly18:48
achipapeople tend to say cross-platform while meaning platform agnostic18:48
hiemanshuachipa: just theme QWidgets, and we will all be happy18:48
MohammadAGand I'd rather be fucked with compiled code rather than interpreted code18:48
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trxhow can i use a custom icon in ToolIcon item?18:48
djszapiachipa: we did not mention the Ui redesign, we spoke about the element will be the same :)18:49
berndhsachipa: correct, but you can't do that either with any of the component sets18:49
MohammadAGRST38h, plus you'll need redistributable graphics18:49
RST38hthat too18:49
djszapiachipa: and I think that is not something we cannot expect from qt-components after a while.18:49
achipahiemanshu: I do believe that would be a compromise that would do more harm than good18:49
hiemanshuachipa: harm? what kind?18:49
djszapi(same as in your code)18:49
achipaberndhs: you can do cross-platform, see QtInfo for over-the-top-cross-platformness18:50
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achipahiemanshu: essentially double the work(around) and throw out any UX guidelines you might have18:50
berndhsachipa: well sure you can use the same desktop icon and rewrite the rest of you code :)18:50
RST38hIf you have to check with QtInfo, you have already lost the fight18:51
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achipaberndhs: it's more than that. QtInfo dinamically decides QWidgets vs QML vs Symbian components vs Harmattan components18:51
hiemanshuachipa: I have been using qt-components for my GUI, and I am happy, its just that I would have a larger set of apps if there was Qt (from Maemo, and such)18:51
achipaRST38h: not check. look at how it does it18:52
hiemanshus/Qt/QWidget Theming/18:52
infobothiemanshu meant: achipa: I have been using qt-components for my GUI, and I am happy, its just that I would have a larger set of apps if there was QWidget Theming (from Maemo, and such)18:52
berndhsachipa: right, so it decides which of your 5 or 6 rewritten code versions to use18:52
hiemanshuberndhs: or you could use vanilla QML18:53
djszapithat is what I have been doing so far for QML UiS.18:53
berndhshiemanshu: yes that will work, if you dont' care much about theming and looking the same as the platform18:54
djszapiand will prolly do until android components are not available.18:54
djszapi* are available18:54
hiemanshuberndhs: well if you are drawing most of the GUI yourself, that will work yes18:54
hiemanshuberndhs: or wait till Qt 5 for better support :P18:54
achipaberndhs: still ways better than ifdeffing to hell (which is somehow considered 'cross-platform' among QWidget proponents)18:54
berndhshiemanshu: oh, I anticipate Qt5 could vary even more across platforms :P18:55
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hiemanshuberndhs: that only time will tell18:55
djszapi5.0 probably.18:55
berndhshiemanshu: indeed. in the meantime I just to QML and some custom components18:55
achipaI guess it's down to developer lazyness. You either care about platform UX guidelines or you don't.18:56
RST38hthe framework should help you abide the guidelines18:56
achipaand we all know self-righteousness runs strong with developers, right ? :P18:56
berndhsachipa: it's not laziness if you don't want to write your code N times for N silly manufacturers on ego trips18:56
hiemanshuberndhs: there are also ways to draw QWidgets using QML on top for the theming18:56
achipaRST38h: and it does18:56
RST38hif it is "you have to draw things by hand, so that they match this picture to the pixel", then nobody will abide it18:56
achipathe point was18:57
achipasay, harmattan stores settings, accounts in a certain way18:57
achipathere is no way the platform cen help you abstract every single peculiarity (how do I know which dialogue of your is an account or settings oriented one ?)18:57
achipaditto for pagestacks18:58
achipaso it's not about 'how do you draw a button'18:58
achipaor 'does it have an X for close'18:58
achipathat can and should be solved on a generic level18:58
berndhsachipa: it is a lot worse with QML. it starts with "import 1.2" being different for every case18:59
achipabut when you go to actual user interaction and workflow that might be required to be different, you're screwed, no 'cross-platform' thing will help you there18:59
achipaberndhs: that IS stupid, and that I won't dispute18:59
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achipabut 'if I write a QML I want Qt to magically abide/transform it to whatever ways the platform works' is unrealistic in 201x19:00
djszapiyeah, but we should be able to have the same components with the same code in our code even if we need a Ui revamp.19:01
djszapiand this is not the point, and that is why people still need pure QML.19:01
RST38hachipa: makes me think that using HTML for UI would be more beneficial19:01
berndhswith the broken "import", you can't even code to the lowest common denominator19:01
achipaRST38h: QML *is* HTML5 without the buzzword status :)19:02
RST38hand without cross platform compatibility?19:02
achipaberndhs: agreed, common import coming soon (public API synchronization)19:02
achipaRST38h: HTML5 has no cross-platform compatibility promise19:03
achipait's a standard19:03
elpuriafter using qml for more than a year the whole idea of building apps by manipulating a browser DOM tree feels silly19:03
achipayou implement parts of, some maybe not, and then hide behind 'implementation details'19:03
RST38hyet it looks more or less the same everywhere19:03
elpuriand what kind of hoops you have to jump through to get something in the place you want19:03
RST38hnormal css will do the job I think19:04
elpurilaying out text is still pretty limited in qml though19:04
* RST38h uses <table>s most of the time though, they do tend to work better than css for rubber layouts19:04
RST38hAh, DOW-297.8119:05
Ans5icss just feels pain sometimes.19:05
achipaWell, HTML5 is essentially QML with a super-small components subset (putting out the fire with gasoliiiineeee :) )19:06
Ans5iqml is not pure json i think?19:06
trxill just ask again :)19:07
trxhow can i use a custom icon in ToolIcon? is there a property other than iconId that i can use?19:07
Ans5itrx: i have no idea :)19:08
kkitodo you know when running some app in osx with qtcreator, where the root "/" is located?19:08
elpuriwell i dunno if i'm stupid or lazy or whatever but i instantly "got" qml, but i still can't do all the things i want in a browser at least without lots of iterations and frustration19:09
kkitobecause I installed the harmattan qt components, but it needs the theme and is the themedaemon is looking for /usr/share/themes/... but, the root "/" is not the system root19:09
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Ans5ielpuri: what do you want to do in browser?19:10
djszapielpuri: my favourite thing is that I cannot have a tableview in qml (say. I have a table model, so that to interact easily with that)19:10
elpuriwell last time i tried to do something i wanted to anchor two images to both lower corners of a page i tried and tried but there was always some problem like the browser leaving some margin eventhough i had (at least i though i had) zeroed all the margins and paddings and whatnot of everything19:13
elpuriand then i tried to anchor something in the center of the top of the page and some browsers insisted that the page is something like 16px wider than the viewport19:14
elpurino matter how the browser window is resized19:14
elpuriso it always has horizontal scrollbar19:15
elpurii'm not doing any serious web stuff and i'm sure real pros can do what they want and know the tricks to get everything working in all browsers19:15
elpurii just occasionally want to do little fun things19:15
elpurihave you guys checked out the QML on HTML5 canvas project?19:16
elpuriby some finnish guy19:16
elpurilauri something19:16
Ans5ielpuri: i've heard about it. just tried to google with those keywords though :)19:16
Ans5ithat might have some significant perf issues between browsers.19:20
Ans5i..but certainly it has probably changed since when ^that comparison was made.19:24
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Ans5iThere was also some comparison, iirc when i rerun those with latest versions, the firefox was actually quite fast with svg.19:29
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elpurihow is svg relevant here? didn't lauri's demo use canvas?19:32
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MohammadAGwhere's the browser's refresh button icon located?19:34
hiemanshuMohammadAG: end of the url textfield?19:35
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MohammadAGnevermind, found this iconID icon-m-toolbar-refresh19:38
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hiemanshuah, that way :P19:44
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Ans5ielpuri: yep. iirc svg was faster on ff19:56
Ans5ihaven't tested on latest version though. ff seems to be rolling those quite often nowdays19:56
npmelpuri: check out &&
Ans5ii also tested some mobile browsers but the results were crap.20:03
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Elessarhi all, does anybody know how to make backlight be always active?20:18
Elessarsorry for my English :)20:18
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VenemoElessar, settings, device, screen20:20
ElessarVenemo: I mean by API specially for my app20:21
Elessaralso it's interesting how to turn off that backlight :)20:21
VenemoElessar, ooh, I don't know that, sorry20:21
Ans5ithere might be some gconf key that i don't remember20:25
kkitoI am trying the n9 rda but the mouse is not working and i cannot interact with the device. Anyone experimenting the same troubles?20:29
kkitoany tip to enable mouse in the rda?20:29
* alterego sighs20:32
* Stskeeps offers alterego beer20:33
MohammadAGkkito, yeah, same here20:34
kkitothats weird :( i cannot rerieve the files to enable twitter :(20:34
kkitoI installed maemo qt-components into Desktop QtSdk and it seems that is working ok under osx20:37
kkitofinally i can develop harmattan qml apps and debug them on the desktop...20:38
kkitoit saves a lot of time of testing? but the design tool from t creator is not working with those components20:40
alteregoThanks Stskeeps20:40
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alteregoOh neat, there's a Qt team ppa for ubuntu21:08
MohammadAGanyone know about styleSheets for MWidgets?21:08
djszapiMohammadAG: what is up ?21:20
MohammadAGdjszapi, I need to style an MButton21:21
MohammadAGchange iconSize to 12821:21
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djszapiMButtonStyle#MyButton {  icon-size: 128px 128px; }21:24
djszapibutton.setStyleName("MyButton"( -> something like that21:24
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thpdoes anyone have a working GLES2 example that works on harmattan? ideally with usage of QGLShaderProgram et. al?21:32
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djszapiyes, we have21:33
djszapibut it is not a direct code...we have a graphics engine under the game scripts, if that is also fine for you..21:33
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thpnah, i wanted to play around with some low level opengl to understand things better ;)21:38
djszapilook into the code of the QtOpenGL21:38
thpthey do have an example, but it doesn't use qglshaderprogram21:39
djszapiqglshaderprogram is not low-level opengl21:40
djszapithat is the point about QtOpenGL, to abstract the low-level stuff out ;)21:40
thpbut it saves me a few lines compared to glCreateProgram and friends21:42
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MohammadAG<djszapi> MButtonStyle#MyButton {  icon-size: 128px 128px; }21:44
MohammadAGsure about that line?21:44
djszapiI am sure about something like that :p21:45
djszapitake a look at the CSS: /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libmeegotouchviews/style/mbuttonstyle.css21:46
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MohammadAGdjszapi, where do I put the CSS code? directly inline with C++ one?21:51
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djszapiof course not :)21:52
djszapiYou will have a css file for your application.21:52
MohammadAGI wanted everything in one binary21:53
MohammadAGwhy isn't there a paintEvent or a styleSheet for MTF :/21:53
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smoku$(ARCH) on COBS contains "armv7l". Is there a variable that contains simple "arm"?23:44
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alteregosmoku: just check it beginning with ARM?23:47
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smokualterego, is there some Makefile ifeq magic for that?23:51
alteregoBut I donmt know it :)23:52
alteregoIs this a rules file?23:52
* alterego consults his reference.23:52
smokunope. It's the plain old Makefile23:53
alteregoHrmm, okay23:54
alterego$(subst, 0, 3, $(ARCH))23:55
alteregoOh, that's substitution23:55
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alteregoAh, $(findstring arm, $(ARCH))23:57
alteregoThat should work.23:57

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