| SpeedEvil | Any easy hacks to get flash onto the harmattan browser? | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
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| rzr | SpeedEvil: gnash would fit ? | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, gnash doesn't do much content. | 00:53 |
| SpeedEvil | At least IME. | 00:53 |
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| rzr | do u need swf for video or something else ? | 00:57 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 00:58 |
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| ZrZ | SpeedEvil: it would be better to focus on a website proxy that convert flv to ogv on the fly | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | ZrZ: Indeed - I've sort-of-considered coding that - but the 'DRM' makes it awkward | 01:17 |
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| ZrZ | SpeedEvil: how do apple platform manage thoses swf contents ? | 01:48 |
| rzr | ie http://smokescreen.us/demos/sb45demo.html | 01:48 |
| rzr | http://www.freefileconvert.com/ | 01:49 |
| rzr | btw flash never worked correctly on desktop for years so i would not make any effort on it | 01:50 |
| rzr | SpeedEvil: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74438&page=4 | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ZrZ: Not at all as I understand it | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | (work) | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Special apple client | 02:01 |
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| javispedro | obs. still. not. fixed! | 02:25 |
| rzr | week end :) | 02:26 |
| berndhs | possibly some motherly type people discouraging work on weekends | 02:29 |
| * javispedro has had to work this weekend, so conscience is clear :) | 02:31 | |
| berndhs | sip phone would be nice for n950 | 03:33 |
| javispedro | aha, tuxrace working, including vibration feedback when crashing on trees | 03:35 |
| javispedro | sadly, obs is down so you are not playing. MWAHAHA. | 03:35 |
| rzr | berndhs: sip is there | 03:47 |
| rzr | i use it | 03:47 |
| berndhs | it is ? must not have looked in the right place | 03:51 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: lis302d range is -2G ... 2G ? | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | can get switched to (iirc) +-8g | 03:52 |
| javispedro | and you remember how it is configured under Maemo? | 03:52 |
| rzr | berndhs: just try to add an ekiga.net account | 03:54 |
| berndhs | oh i see | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry no | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess though it's+-2 | 03:57 |
| javispedro | I think qt sensors is slightly wrong | 03:57 |
| * javispedro goes check datasheet | 03:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck qtsensors, it can just be wrong, as qt has no permissions to access accel directly | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | a genuine task for a daemon aka middleware | 03:59 |
| javispedro | hm | 03:59 |
| javispedro | ? | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not going to elaborate on this *again* | 03:59 |
| javispedro | ah | 03:59 |
| javispedro | well | 04:00 |
| javispedro | I meant qtmobility | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | bitched about it on #meego-arm for ~9 months | 04:00 |
| javispedro | it goes like this hw -> kernel -> input device -> sensord (daemon running as root) -> qtmobility -> app | 04:00 |
| javispedro | I think qtmobility is miscalibrating somewhere | 04:00 |
| javispedro | by a very, very small amoun | 04:00 |
| javispedro | t | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | qtm, where's the difference? is it a root process, is it unique? | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no calibration | 04:01 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: sensord is a unique root daemon, and is the only one that listens to the kernel | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not even going to check wha it does | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's boring nausea to me | 04:02 |
| javispedro | dunno what your complain is :) | 04:02 |
| javispedro | either way mine is that it says z = 10.4g. | 04:02 |
| javispedro | when it should be 9.8g | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the idiotic polling been my concern | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | then your accel is decalibrated, that's a chip issue though | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a fixed conversion factor from vhip readout to real g | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, read the datasheet. I probably will fall asleep on reading it a 70th time | 04:05 |
| javispedro | either way my initial idea is plain wrong | 04:05 |
| javispedro | that they were mixing 1024 vs 1000, that would not produce such a large error | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | 9.8g?? | 04:06 |
| javispedro | m/s^2 | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | so 1g | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't you think that's rather 1.04g than 10.4m/s^2? | 04:08 |
| javispedro | that is the plain wrong part ;) | 04:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the plain wrong part is lis3lv02d driver I'd guess | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | or the way it's configured | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | if only it was for the missing sysnode to set up the highpass filter | 04:17 |
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| * javispedro likes what they did with the sensor framework | 06:01 | |
| javispedro | I'm not even sure it really polls lis203d | 06:01 |
| javispedro | at least from sw it does have the option to allow for "hw frequency"/"0 Hz" | 06:02 |
| * javispedro sets 20Hz for games, that will be enough | 06:02 | |
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| dm8tbr | moaning | 07:24 |
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| djszapi | hiemanshu ping | 10:12 |
| djszapi | Could you please give the output of this command again: "dpkg -l opengles-sgx-img-common" -> You said last time it has not been installed, but that is the dependency of libqt4, so it is something very ambigous then. | 10:13 |
| djszapi | sorry this one: "dpkg -l opengles-sgx-img-common-dev" | 10:13 |
| * RST38h yawns, kills a hamster | 10:16 | |
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| faenil_ | good morning everyoneeee :D | 11:43 |
| lcuk | morning faenil_ | 11:51 |
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| faenil | ok back with a decent nick :) | 11:52 |
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| hiemanshu | djszapi: pong | 12:20 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: from scratchbox? | 12:20 |
| djszapi | yep | 12:21 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: that will have to wait, I am at work, and no scratchbox on this machine | 12:22 |
| djszapi | right | 12:22 |
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| djszapi | rzr: I need your packaging help about couple of packages at some point. | 12:38 |
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| djszapi | rzr: it is worth syncing up with sheeplauncher.net/debs. There are packages there missing in the shared repository. | 13:07 |
| djszapi | Who is the maintainer of that page ? We could talk to him to share his/her work. | 13:08 |
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| djszapi | mmm, samba was available for fremantle. | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ([2011-08-29 05:02:51] * javispedro sets 20Hz for games, that will be enough) Setting up and handling the chip correctly would enable both virtually infinite sampling rate (as the chip would instantly fire an IRQ as soon as any of the readings changes) as well as hw completely going to sleep when input is static aka device siting on desk for example (modulo your timers in game of course, that might be not that smart, or need to update | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | animations on screen) | 13:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas it's almost impossible to do that correctly with the given API this kernel module driver provides | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | not to speak about sensord that probably never heard of such advanced concepts | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I think those 20Hz *are* the polling timer setting for sensord | 13:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders what's the polling frequency used for /dev/<keyboard> ;-P | 13:55 | |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: anything that polls is just too slow :( wonder when people will realize that and write real time OSes for phones, apple got it right with iOS, RIM hopes to get it right with QNX | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: the real issue with polling is it's a batery and CPU resources hog, for absolutely no good reason usually - at least when you got such nice alternatives *in chip* as freely configurable hw IRQ generators that emit event driven or conditional IRQ | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | LIS302 has even two of them | 14:01 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: thats one of the few issues that a low of people need to fix, including Nokia and Android | 14:02 |
| hiemanshu | and M$ too | 14:03 |
| djszapi | except that QNX is not free like Linux. | 14:03 |
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| djszapi | and developing such an OS internally would pretty much mean you die out from the market by the time you finish. | 14:04 |
| djszapi | since it is not 2 days. | 14:04 |
| djszapi | and this mobile market changes rapidly. | 14:04 |
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| hiemanshu | djszapi: Apple got it right | 14:04 |
| djszapi | When did it get right, from the beginning ? | 14:05 |
| djszapi | or recently ? | 14:05 |
| hiemanshu | yup | 14:05 |
| hiemanshu | beginning | 14:05 |
| djszapi | that is the point, yes. | 14:05 |
| hiemanshu | Meego was written from scratch too not too long ago even when symbian was around | 14:06 |
| djszapi | MeeGo is using upstream... | 14:06 |
| djszapi | and Linux upstream cannot be compared real time OSes like QNX. | 14:06 |
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| djszapi | to* | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | is any linux distribution 'from scratch'..? | 14:06 |
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| lcuk | the mobile market seems to want high definition input | 14:08 |
| lcuk | pen devices are seen more and more | 14:08 |
| lcuk | once again | 14:08 |
| lcuk | we need software to make use of it :P | 14:09 |
| djszapi | that is one thing what you need, and what the reality is :) | 14:09 |
| djszapi | I would even dare to say, iOS is nowhere to QNX in response time, but some please feel free to prove me wrong with benchmarks. | 14:10 |
| djszapi | someone* | 14:10 |
| lcuk | djszapi, have you seen the new lenovo tablet? runs nvidia chipset and is dreamy | 14:11 |
| djszapi | I do not care about tablets ;-) | 14:11 |
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| lcuk | you do not care about many things | 14:11 |
| djszapi | when I have a small amount of time, I try to spend it with handsets. | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<djszapi> and Linux upstream cannot be compared real time OSes like QNX. ) the problem is more around the fact that upstream not really has a good idea about special requirements of embedded | 14:13 |
| djszapi | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4632183/qnx-vs-android-vs-ios -> first sentence: What advantages would a real time operating system like QNX bring to the smart phone / tablet space vs what android and iOS are doing. | 14:14 |
| djszapi | reading more forums, it seems to me that QNX is a different category to Android/iOS. | 14:14 |
| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: yes and no. | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | while on a desktop and even a laptop polling an accelerometer chip 20 times a second is a semi-sane thing as it makes the handler code shorter, on an embedded device polling is an absolute nogo as it eats battery for nuttin, by waking CPU frequently | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | on the typical phone-class/PDA embedded device you don't really want a realtime OS | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then OTOH most users/devels aren't aware what realtime actually means | 14:17 |
| djszapi | I was doing QNX development in the past, and it is really cool. | 14:18 |
| djszapi | I love the kernel design much better than the Linux kernel. | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | realtime doe *not* mean it's per definition a fast responding OS | 14:18 |
| djszapi | that is a very serious part of it. | 14:18 |
| hiemanshu | well QNX has a microkernel | 14:18 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: ofc it doesn't, but atleast it isnt eating CPU cycle by polling 20 times a second | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Realtime means a well-defined time. | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | realtime means the response to evens is guaranteed to complete in a defined timeframe - whatever the actual duration of that timeframe | 14:19 |
| flux | hiemanshu, it could very well be, and the interval of such polling would be exactly 1/20 seconds :) | 14:19 |
| flux | sometimes you just have hardware that cannot be used without polling. | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: why would rt-OS imply it doesn't poll? | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: yes, and that's the sad case when EE did a fairly poor job | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | IOW on crappy embedded devices you actually might find subsystems that *need* polling | 14:21 |
| artemm | DocScrutinizer: Not that it would be strictly related, but rt-OS kind'of assumes embedded use -> need to care about power as well | 14:22 |
| flux | artemm, not all embedded use implies using on battery power | 14:22 |
| artemm | true, yet it's much more frequent than for non rt-OS | 14:23 |
| djszapi | I do not still find iOS and QNX under the same category. It is meantioned on more sites more like with Android. | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, well. rt-OS are the OS of choice for "real embedded" like ABS-controllers in your car, etc. But of course you as well see rt-OS in industrial scale environments | 14:23 |
| artemm | also if I remember my university classes correctly, it's much easier to base guaranteed response time from interrupts rather than via careful CPU based scheduling | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the point | 14:24 |
| flux | artemm, dunno about that, both micro waves and laptops are pretty common ;) | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway my point stands: upstream knows a shit about proper management/handling of IRQ driven embedded, see lis3lv02 | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | and sensord | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | this been my concern (and caused me bitching a lot and getting lots of flames in response) regarding #meego-arm policy of "only upstream" | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | .. didn't we finish that discussion by finding out that the openmoko guys didn't care enough to upstream their changes to linux kernel? | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, we didn't | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | then i misunderstood | 14:29 |
| djszapi | yes, but I think it is not possible to change to QNX under the current curcumstances without enormous manpower who could work on it. There are thousand projects you need to rewrite for QNX meaning that you will die out from the rapidly evolving market. Hence it might work in theory, but not in practice. | 14:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | suggesting to change to another core OS is main silly | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/main/mere/ | 14:29 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: suggesting to change to another core OS is mere silly | 14:29 |
| djszapi | Even if the driver development itself would be much easier because of the microkernel architecture of QNX. | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | what shall be done is careful reconsideration of the "upstream first, upstream always" policy, and especially upstream needs careful evaluation of each part regarding undesirable implications regarding performance on embedded environments | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | not always the upstream driver is appropriate for the task, even if it has the "right name" | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | same applies to whole frameworks (e.g. sensord which - it seems to me -has a basically ill concept, for embedded) | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no, I won't apply patches to fix the fundamental concept decisions made in such a framework | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/apply/provide/ | 14:34 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: and no, I won't provide patches to fix the fundamental concept decisions made in such a framework | 14:34 |
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| djszapi | I am not familiar with the sensord framework, but are you saying that it is possible to write a real time driver if the kernel scheduling was not designed that way ? | 14:35 |
| djszapi | http://paste.kde.org/115483/ -> Anybody idea for this packaging issue after 100% build ? | 14:36 |
| thp | Jaffa: "PySide was a Nokia-led project" sounds a bit like it is a project of the past | 14:38 |
| thp | Jaffa: "PySide is a project that was Nokia-led" might be better? | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: we are not at all talking about realtime here | 14:38 |
| djszapi | ohh so you changed topic in the meantime.. | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: I was concerned about polling | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: no, I never had that topic of realtime | 14:39 |
| sandst1 | djszapi: any "No such file or directory" can be handled with sbox_ctl restart 95% of the time | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: [2011-08-29 13:16:58] <DocScrutinizer> on the typical phone-class/PDA embedded device you don't really want a realtime OS | 14:40 |
| djszapi | mmm, I was considering the real timeness of QNX which is the biggest advantage of it imho. | 14:41 |
| djszapi | and the microkernel architecture, ok, nvm :) | 14:41 |
| djszapi | but then I do not understand why polling cannot be implemented for the linux kernel | 14:42 |
| djszapi | * polling issue cannot be solved | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: so it's been yu who changed the topic, away from polling towards realtime. Or you at least followed hiemanshu on that route | 14:42 |
| djszapi | QNX whispers that topic to me, sorry for that. | 14:43 |
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| djszapi | other than real time, I am not sure why it is QNX specific question. Why cannot it be solved for the Linux kernel ? | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: it easily can be solved, if kernel maintainers and meego kernel devels wouldn't follow blindly whatever upstream offers | 14:44 |
| djszapi | yep, so it is not QNX related at all :) | 14:44 |
| flux | I guess in the context of sensord it doesn't really matter that the polling interval is exactly t seconds, so it's not a hard realtime problem | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, I never even written QNX here before | 14:44 |
| djszapi | it is funny because Harmattan has an internal kernel, they could do their own implementation and design. | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ^f your backscroll for string QNX in any of my posts | 14:45 |
| flux | there's always RTLinux ;) | 14:45 |
| djszapi | yeah, sure...nowhere close to QNX though :) | 14:45 |
| djszapi | sandst1: mmm, thanks for the idea. It did not help, I guess it is a missing latex, but I grabbed it from debian upstream. Maybe they forgot to mention that dependency in the control file :p | 14:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer turns away shouting "MEH!" - discuss your realtime till you get blue in the face. It's not on topic about polling | 14:46 | |
| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: feel free to improve upstream. | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | feel free to *evaluate* upstream before you indiscriminately use it | 14:48 |
| djszapi | sorry, but I do not understand your problem. Are you speaking about a kernel or userspace issue ? I think you can provide application/patch against any of them (in case of meego at least). | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-08-29 13:34:39] <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: and no, I won't provide patches to fix the fundamental concept decisions made in such a framework | 14:49 |
| djszapi | well, what you can do is to implement/design a way that you think is a niche (if it already exists then you cannot do it anything). | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and just in case of lis3lv02d.ko it turned out upstream is broken by design but nobody is willing to accept a better alternative written from scratch, as "there'S already this upstrem driver and we need to keep API compatibility" - even of a broken by design API | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sensord situation is hopeless | 14:52 |
| djszapi | disagree | 14:52 |
| djszapi | we did not accept the upstream security design. | 14:52 |
| djszapi | so it might be the sensor team, but there are teams who do not accept things unconditionally :) | 14:53 |
| djszapi | but I think yo ushould first to know why they decided that way (from documentation, code, mail or something like that) | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | glad to hear, alas it's not a madatory common best practice to thoroughly evaluate upstream before adopting it for _your_ very special system | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | (should know) for all I know meego architecture decisions were done by a crew of 4, in a dark pub after 4 beer each, and never got discussed publicly | 14:55 |
| djszapi | yes, that is why I dislike meego, yep. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | so where will get me any asking "why did you decide to use sensord?" | 14:56 |
| djszapi | We described it in the security framework, why we decided that way. I would also expect it from others | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | so where will it get me any to ask"why did you decide to use sensord?" | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: nice | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas it's obviously not the way meego "community" (with ticks!) works | 14:58 |
| djszapi | meego is open source, not open design :) | 14:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer away | 14:59 | |
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| elzalem | hey! anyone else experiencing issues with the N950 and its cell reception? i have 5 bars on the n900 but the n950 shows 1 bar and loses coverage a LOT | 15:15 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: btw, did you get around to filing that malf bug back then? | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | elzalem: known issue, yes | 15:15 |
| djszapi | dm8tbr: there is no bug in malf. | 15:15 |
| elzalem | DocScrutinizer: so defiantly not hardware issue? hopefully to be fixed with future releases? | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, I'd suspect it *is* a hw issue | 15:16 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: I thought you wanted to file an issue about a possible change/improvement. Some discussion with DocScrutinizer IIRC | 15:17 |
| djszapi | dm8tbr: its design is nice. | 15:18 |
| djszapi | we figured out everything is alrightish | 15:19 |
| dm8tbr | I see | 15:20 |
| djszapi | as in on the newer software version at least. | 15:21 |
| djszapi | =p | 15:21 |
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| * Venemo_N950 wants new software for da N950 | 15:23 | |
| leinir | moar softwares plz! ;) | 15:26 |
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| djszapi | anybody porting samba to harmattan ? | 15:27 |
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| elzalem | any IRC client for n950 ?? | 15:29 |
| djszapi | irc-chatter | 15:29 |
| macmaN | venemo just keeps repeating "new software for n950" every day? | 15:30 |
| djszapi | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Venemo/IRC_Chatter#Releases | 15:30 |
| macmaN | i hope that hexing approach works | 15:30 |
| macmaN | lord knows nothing else seems to | 15:30 |
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| leinir | quassel's coming as well | 15:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: so on "newer software" the echo wtf >/var/malf is fixed? | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | thp: "was Nokia-led" because they started it, but now it's "INdT-led". | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | thp: But point taken | 15:36 |
| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: yep, as we discussed. | 15:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ah, so they added some sort of hash to it? | 15:38 |
| djszapi | what do you mean by fixed ? | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | [Fr 26. August 2011] [10:41:56] <djszapi> DocScrutinizer: I am filing a bug about /var/malf, it is a very serious deny allow issue (even if just root can do it). | 15:40 |
| djszapi | yes, but since it is reboot, it is not deny allow at all | 15:40 |
| djszapi | * it reboots | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so that's what I meant with "fixed". They changed sth in new firmware so it allows booting despite /var/malf existing? | 15:41 |
| djszapi | yes, as we discussed ;) | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>During our ongoing investigation of the incident we have discovered that a database table containing developer forum members' email addresses has been accessed, by exploiting a vulnerability in the bulletin board software that allowed an SQL Injection attack. Initially we believed that only a small number of these forum member records had been accessed, but further investigation has identified that the number is significantly larger.<< | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Important information from the Nokia Developer website team Von: "Nokia Developer" <developer@nokia.com> An: reisenweber@xxx.de Datum: 2011-08-29 10:02 | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm wondering about 'no secure information' - are password hashes secure information. | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wl4.peer360.com/b/56X1kFsJFLMffLIHk63Y/main.asp?hl=110921339&r=CBCEBBJ | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ^^^ Nokia's emergency mail as quoted above | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Though the initial vulnerability was addressed immediately, we have now taken the developer community website offline as a precautionary measure, while we conduct further investigations and security assessments<< hehehe | 15:51 |
| kimju | SpeedEvil, userinfo and authentication stuff might have been in separate databases/tables. | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | True | 15:54 |
| mikhas | or salted rendering the mere hash useless | 15:54 |
| kimju | as they seem to have some kind of single signon thing. | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Salting does not render hashes useless. | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Salting means that you can only crack a password of one user at a time. | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially given increases in CPU power in the future. | 15:55 |
| mikhas | yes? and you expect one-time hashes to be easily crackable? | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Dictionary attacks | 15:56 |
| berndhs | probably the same attacker responsible for OBS downtime | 15:56 |
| djszapi | conspiracy theory! :) | 15:57 |
| mikhas | so what? dictionary passwords are always unsafe | 15:57 |
| mikhas | I dont need to obtain the hashes for that … | 15:57 |
| berndhs | why is obs still down for harmattan ? | 15:57 |
| djszapi | wfm, what do you mean by "down" ? | 15:58 |
| berndhs | i mean it doesnt build anything, says the setup of the repository is broken | 15:59 |
| berndhs | this is c.obs for harmattan only, it build ok for the rest | 15:59 |
| berndhs | same condition as the whole weekend | 16:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | mikhas: By dictionary, I mean aything up to and including [A-Z0-9a-z!@#$%^&]+ | 16:02 |
| djszapiN9 | mikhas I realized a cool vkb feature | 16:03 |
| djszapiN9 | pressing on vowels for a bit longer, it offers different versions with accents and the like | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I've read about that somewhere | 16:06 |
| dm8tbr | berndhs: there was some maintenance recently and some downtimes related to that. might want to poke lbt or x-fade though. | 16:08 |
| mikhas | djszapiN9, yup | 16:08 |
| mikhas | djszapi, actually, with my current work, you can put mini layouts in that popup | 16:09 |
| berndhs | dm8tbr: yeah, people have been poking lbt and x-fade for the last month about it :) | 16:09 |
| mikhas | say, a numerical block | 16:09 |
| lbt | ouch | 16:09 |
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| lbt | berndhs: sorry, I ended up working all weekend | 16:10 |
| lbt | and, TBH, I leave harmattan to Niels | 16:10 |
| berndhs | lbt: yes i know its not you | 16:10 |
| djszapiN9 | mikhas, right | 16:10 |
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| lbt | I know Niels is working hard on the overhead that formeego is causing | 16:11 |
| djszapiN9 | mikhas it is an advantage to hkb | 16:13 |
| berndhs | i should start working on some ce stuff, #meego-arm is the place to talk about it ? | 16:13 |
| djszapiN9 | yep | 16:13 |
| mikhas | djszapiN9, you know you can load custom VKB layouts, using MesInput from OVI store? | 16:13 |
| djszapiN9 | see topic | 16:13 |
| mikhas | I should put a demo together, some day. | 16:14 |
| djszapi | mikhas: I dislike OVI store :) | 16:14 |
| djszapi | actually, it is good enough. My only problem is that they are a bit pushy | 16:14 |
| djszapi | but mmh, I would probably load a layout with arrows :) | 16:15 |
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| djszapi | mikhas: I am trying it now =) | 16:17 |
| djszapi | mikhas: can a vkb be done technically which is nice and does not break the swipe UX ? | 16:18 |
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| ajalkane | Arrow keys are actually the thing I most miss from this vkb. Otherwise I like it quite much. | 16:27 |
| djszapi | <3 VKB over HKB :p | 16:28 |
| ajalkane | One thing cool about N950... when hkb open, double tap gets straight to the last open app without swiping lock screen away | 16:30 |
| mikhas | ajalkane, there's a bug for that ;-) | 16:30 |
| mikhas | ajalkane, arrow keys will never arrive in default layouts | 16:30 |
| ajalkane | Handy for ircing onwork place. | 16:30 |
| mikhas | but I want to make it possible to easily modify teh layout files to include such | 16:31 |
| mikhas | ajalkane, exactly | 16:31 |
| mikhas | ajalkane, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22123 | 16:32 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 22123 nor, Medium, ---, michael, NEW, Virtual keyboard layouts should allow for arrow keys | 16:32 |
| ajalkane | mikhas: a custom layout works just fine. Ii just occassionally need them, but when I do missing them is frustrating | 16:32 |
| mikhas | yep | 16:32 |
| mikhas | thing is, I would not win a fight with our designers to include arrows keys in default layouts | 16:33 |
| mikhas | ajalkane, I miss arrow keys in browser's URL bar | 16:33 |
| ajalkane | I can imagine. I guess it's too 'geeky' requirement | 16:34 |
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| ajalkane | mikhas: yeah there often | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why is it always the designers that are the #1 PITA in a company? | 16:49 |
| frals | usually its not the designers, its some screwed up manager | 16:50 |
| kimju | "I don't understand this feature -> it should not be allowed in the product" | 16:51 |
| djszapi | fiferboy hello belllo :) | 16:53 |
| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: designers are just puppets. | 16:53 |
| djszapi | from what I heard, they normally have the limitation how to design. | 16:53 |
| flux | arrows could be replaced with swipes in the terminal :) | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | add them to toolbar xml? | 17:01 |
| flux | it supports gestures? | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | no, but buttons? | 17:02 |
| flux | in any case, they would be much more convenient if they were properly layed out on the vkb | 17:02 |
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| flux | and toolbar gets quickly filled up | 17:05 |
| kimju | I'd still like option for software to turn the vkb on/off programmatically, while still keeping focus and allowing hwkb (and maybe bluetooth-kb) work. | 17:05 |
| ajalkane | There's the symbol switch. Add third page for geeky stuff | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Illume_keyboard | 17:06 |
| flux | kimju, I really doubt there's going to be enhancements related to hwkb usage :) | 17:06 |
| flux | (but bluetooth kb support would be nice to keep alive, if it works) | 17:06 |
| berndhs | is there a signal that tells an application that the vkb is displayed | 17:07 |
| berndhs | ? | 17:07 |
| kimju | flux, so do I.. so I'm not going to even bother trying to fill formal requests :) | 17:07 |
| kimju | and all my other wishes seem to fall in the same category too | 17:08 |
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| razvanpetru | anyone using the Harmattan experimental target on mac? for me the deployment is slower than on windows... | 17:09 |
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| flux | kimju, it's great that you have only wishes that can be so easily handled, that is, ignored :) | 17:09 |
| razvanpetru | perl sits there at 100% or something | 17:09 |
| ajalkane | I heard bt kbd support was not finished | 17:09 |
| fiferboy | Hi djszapi | 17:10 |
| ajalkane | but that it's doable by community, ie its open code | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | terminal kbd layout: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/thumb/2/23/Illume-keyboards-terminal-dutch-nl-screenshot.png/256px-Illume-keyboards-terminal-dutch-nl-screenshot.png vs "normal": http://www.maemonokian900.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/f8b296e91ean-sms.png | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | switch any time you want | 17:10 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: yep, if you have all the kernel support for that. | 17:10 |
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| djszapi | fiferboy: I had a look at the tableview, it is a very long code :( | 17:15 |
| djszapi | Is there no better (and simpler) way of implementing the column logic ? | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also worth to remember: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Literki | 17:24 |
| razvanpetru | so noone is using harmattan with a mac? | 17:26 |
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| alterego | razvanpetru: there was a disclaimer, no N950s for mac fags | 17:28 |
| razvanpetru | well, someone told me that it works better on Mac compared to Windows | 17:28 |
| razvanpetru | and it doesn't... | 17:29 |
| djszapi | alterego: that is not true | 17:30 |
| djszapi | alterego: it is even in the SDK documentation.. | 17:30 |
| razvanpetru | yeah, it should work on all 3 platforms, as any good IDE should :) | 17:30 |
| alterego | djszapi: I know, I was joking ... | 17:30 |
| djszapi | well, we cannot know without smileys, really ;) | 17:31 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: You can look at how Tumbler (in com/nokia/meego/extras) handles columns | 17:33 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: They currently all scroll independantly, but it is probably not difficult to lock them together | 17:33 |
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| razvanpetru | what's deploy time on Linux? | 17:47 |
| razvanpetru | on Windows it's ~30s, mac is about 50s | 17:47 |
| tomma | from creator to n950? | 17:53 |
| tomma | with packaging? | 17:54 |
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| faenil | news ? :) | 17:54 |
| faenil | hi everyone ;) | 17:54 |
| djszapi | hi reinventor ;) | 17:54 |
| * djszapi runs quikcly | 17:54 | |
| razvanpetru | tomma: yes | 17:55 |
| razvanpetru | I thought Symbian was slow, but n950 takes the cake so far... | 17:55 |
| faenil | djszapi: friends call me Leonardo, lol | 17:56 |
| djszapi | =) | 17:56 |
| faenil | n950 slow? | 17:56 |
| jreznik | deployment I think | 17:56 |
| faenil | oh k | 17:56 |
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| tomma | i think the relevant part in that is packaging as sending file trough sftp and installing in device shouldn't be affected by platform | 17:57 |
| razvanpetru | deployment, yes | 17:58 |
| razvanpetru | yes, packaging is the problem | 17:58 |
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| tomma | do you know how slow it is to compile qt creator in windows? =) could be it is slow hdd too but on windows qmake havent even read all .pro files when my linux box has almost compiled it | 18:01 |
| razvanpetru | there's a case for sherlock holmes... | 18:02 |
| razvanpetru | I wonder what could make it so slow, for packaging it makes sense because it's running some tools probably in cygwin | 18:03 |
| razvanpetru | or mingw's versions | 18:03 |
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| razvanpetru | btw tomma, are you compiling qtc with mingw or visual C++? | 18:04 |
| razvanpetru | I would except vcpp to be much faster | 18:04 |
| razvanpetru | *expect | 18:04 |
| tomma | took 12s to package my project | 18:04 |
| tomma | and thats only packaging no deploy | 18:05 |
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| tomma | lets try with whole thing... | 18:05 |
| tomma | hmm 16s | 18:07 |
| razvanpetru | 20s for me whole thing | 18:07 |
| Sput | I have never seen a slower cpp compiler than msvc in my life | 18:10 |
| Sput | it also doesn't seem to make use of the CPU, because only one maybe 10-20% of one core are used... | 18:11 |
| razvanpetru | Sput: I think it's the build system that will launch multiple cl.exe | 18:12 |
| tomma | yeah nmake cant run multiple jobs but there is jom | 18:12 |
| razvanpetru | their new build system is supposed to be better I've heard | 18:12 |
| tomma | which should be used in qtcreator with msvc target | 18:12 |
| Sput | yeah I don't care really, but I've seen it takes *ages* to compile Quassel on a windows box | 18:12 |
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| faenil | so guys | 19:09 |
| faenil | I need a free 3d model | 19:09 |
| faenil | of something that can move boxes | 19:09 |
| faenil | and needs no animation :D | 19:09 |
| faenil | I looked for a snowplow or snowcat, but could not find it | 19:10 |
| faenil | what else could I look for? | 19:10 |
| faenil | let's turn this boring monday afternoon into smthg useful :D | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | move boxes? | 19:11 |
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| faenil | yes | 19:11 |
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| faenil | for my sokoban clone :D | 19:11 |
| faenil | 3d, for n950 | 19:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 19:12 |
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| faenil | no ideas? :D | 19:26 |
| faenil | come on, use your fantasy ;:D | 19:26 |
| ajalkane | a meegon? Bonus: they're two dimensional | 19:27 |
| faenil | ahahah | 19:28 |
| faenil | not bad, but the game is not only for MeeGo, and I need it to be 3d :D | 19:28 |
| ajalkane | oh bugger | 19:28 |
| berndhs | get a really large number of 2D ones and stack them up ? | 19:29 |
| faenil | xD | 19:29 |
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| faenil | ajalkane: you're free to ignore my question, please behave :D | 19:29 |
| ajalkane | i guess bugs and buggers are kinda like swearing in dev oriented channel | 19:31 |
| faenil | but none is talking here, and this is a fun subject, oh come on..... | 19:32 |
| ajalkane | i have a baby sitting on me... so how about a baby in diapers pushing? With an angry red face | 19:33 |
| faenil | ....... | 19:33 |
| faenil | I see why you're upset then, lol | 19:33 |
| ajalkane | he hasn't shat or puked on me yet, so all's well... knock on wood | 19:34 |
| djszapi_ | hiemanshu: which fdo dictionary were you referring to ? got a link ? | 19:35 |
| faenil | hey djszapi_ ! :) | 19:35 |
| djszapi_ | hey :) | 19:37 |
| fiferboy | Okay, what do people think of this: http://fiferboy.blogspot.com/2011/08/qml-colour-themes-in-harmattan.html | 19:44 |
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| hiemanshu | djszapi_: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3958 | 19:46 |
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| * hiemanshu ->dinner(); | 19:47 | |
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| djszapi_ | hiemanshu segfault after calling the method ? =p | 19:49 |
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| djszapi_ | hiemanshu: it is only an urban dictionary. | 19:51 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, ++ | 19:55 |
| djszapi_ | I am planning to add that feature to my application, too. However it might have more features over the plugin architecture. | 19:56 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi_: The Process ended with error code 0 :D | 19:57 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: why not talkative names instead of numbers ? | 19:59 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I'm going to add that into my patch | 20:00 |
| djszapi_ | right, great job :) | 20:00 |
| fiferboy | I just need to work out all the name (orange1, orange2, orange3, orange4, etc) | 20:00 |
| fiferboy | The numbers were an easy starting point because that is how they are referenced in the meegotouch theme | 20:01 |
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| mikhas | fiferboy, but your core colors dont modify the VKB =p | 20:17 |
| fiferboy | mikhas: Do meegotouch theme colours modify the VKB? | 20:19 |
| mikhas | some do, yes | 20:19 |
| fiferboy | Hmm, I'll look into that then :) | 20:19 |
| mikhas | well, the buttons are graphical assets, mostly | 20:20 |
| mikhas | toolbar buttons are fully themeable | 20:20 |
| mikhas | and fonts + fonts colors also follows theme | 20:20 |
| mikhas | fiferboy, "Component.onCompleted: theme.color = 15" <= that's bad | 20:20 |
| mikhas | cant you use enums for that? | 20:20 |
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| mikhas | fiferboy, but you know? we've been discussing the idea that the VKB should pick up some colors from the app | 20:23 |
| mikhas | if that would help to make the VKB feel more like an integral part of the app | 20:23 |
| mikhas | so far, we haven't yet come up with a good enough justification for that | 20:23 |
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| mikhas | the foundation is there (as so often …) | 20:24 |
| djszapi_ | mikhas: he will use enums for that, at least we agreed about that | 20:24 |
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| fiferboy | mikhas: That would be cool | 20:30 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: Just having trouble with colour names - they seem a bit all over the place | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | 14, 15, 16 - lightOrange, orange, darkOrange | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | 17, 18, 19 - darkYellow, yellow, lightYellow | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | etc | 20:32 |
| mikhas | you mean they're not consistently mapped? | 20:33 |
| mikhas | that's where enums would bring more clarity | 20:33 |
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| djszapi_ | fiferboy: that is fine | 20:34 |
| RST38h | Why not use #RRGGBB? | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | mikhas: To my eye it looks a bit inconsistant | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Because there are only 18 built-in possibilities | 20:36 |
| RST38h | ??? | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | It doesn't allow specification of that level | 20:36 |
| RST38h | #RRGGBB worked for me,in QML | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Working with the meegotouch background colours for Button, etc | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | They are built-in png files | 20:36 |
| RST38h | Ah, the meegotouch! | 20:36 |
| RST38h | You finally resorted to meegotouch? | 20:37 |
| fiferboy | Yes, this is making QML components use the MeegoTouch theme files to looks like the built in apps | 20:37 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: No, not using MeegoTouch, just the theming for QML | 20:37 |
| RST38h | hmm...ok | 20:37 |
| fiferboy | That is how the existing qt components are themed in QML, except they only use one colour currently | 20:38 |
| fiferboy | I'm trying to make it so it will use all the available colours | 20:38 |
| rzr | I heard voices here | 20:40 |
| RST38h | never mind | 20:40 |
| RST38h | just us, cows | 20:40 |
| fiferboy | moo | 20:40 |
| rzr | :) | 20:47 |
| RST38h | Beheading rats for fun and profit: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/28/scitech/main20084812.shtml | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | rzr: please help me :) | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | rzr: libssh-dev does not build | 20:48 |
| rzr | how comes ? | 20:51 |
| rzr | cobs is still down isnt it ? | 20:51 |
| rzr | bbl | 20:52 |
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| djszapi_ | rzr: it does not build locally either | 20:53 |
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| rcg1 | any news on the obs status? | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | rzr ping | 21:08 |
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| djszapi_ | Venemo_N950 hey :) | 21:50 |
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| wazd | guys, is there some problem with N950's Contacts list cause I've deleted all existing contacts and tried to import new ones from the n900 and it just shows "0 imported" | 21:55 |
| Venemo_N950 | hello djszapi, how're you? | 22:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | ~ping | 22:04 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | ok, so I'm not disconnected | 22:05 |
| djszapi_ | alrightish :) | 22:05 |
| djszapi_ | how about you and the holidays ? :) | 22:05 |
| infobot | Venemo_N950 no you're not | 22:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi_, I've come home already, but now I'm visiting my girlfriend | 22:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | haven't had any time to code | 22:07 |
| djszapi_ | understandable =) | 22:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi_, does IRC Chatter run on your N9? | 22:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | nah, it's (unfortunately) not what you think :P | 22:08 |
| faenil | :P | 22:18 |
| Venemo_N950 | hehe | 22:22 |
| fiferboy | theme.color will now take theme number (ie 16), color name (ie darkOrange), or color variant (ie orange3) | 22:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | fiferboy, 'will now'? | 22:27 |
| fiferboy | Venemo_N950: I mean, my contribution will now allow it :) | 22:27 |
| fiferboy | I have added colour support to qt component styles | 22:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | aah | 22:28 |
| Venemo_N950 | nice :) | 22:28 |
| arfoll | is thre any way to get the doc of developer.nokia.com wiki? | 22:33 |
| fiferboy | Venemo_N950: http://fiferboy.blogspot.com/2011/08/qml-colour-themes-in-harmattan.html | 22:34 |
| frals | wazd: delete the existing sync profile, i guess it knows which ones been imported once (but not sure) | 22:43 |
| Venemo_N950 | thx | 22:44 |
| Venemo_N950 | frals, ping | 22:44 |
| frals | pong | 22:44 |
| Venemo_N950 | fenix is lazy | 22:47 |
| Venemo_N950 | despite having the same settings for peak time and refresh interval, it stopped automatically refreshing my imap accounts | 22:47 |
| tomma | it does refresh it at peak time | 22:49 |
| tomma | well atleast on my device | 22:50 |
| Venemo_N950 | and it does not load nor images neither links for my MfE account | 22:50 |
| Venemo_N950 | it did for me | 22:52 |
| Venemo_N950 | but stopped doing so lately... I have to manually press the refresh button | 22:52 |
| Venemo_N950 | but the fact that it doesn't handle html emails in MfE annoys me more | 22:54 |
| Venemo_N950 | I hope it's fixed in the next big software | 22:55 |
| rzr | back was watching a documentary | 22:58 |
| rzr | who care of exchange ? | 22:58 |
| frals | Venemo_N950: did mess with the settings? there is option to show everything as plain text mail | 22:59 |
| frals | +you | 22:59 |
| frals | rzr: pretty much anyone working for a big company, i would guess :p | 22:59 |
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| djszapi_ | rzr: so wanna package ? :p | 23:13 |
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| rzr | djszapi: what for ? obs is down | 23:21 |
| rzr | and i am going to be offline for a month next week | 23:21 |
| djszapi_ | rzr: well, libssh-devel | 23:21 |
| djszapi_ | rzr: you wanna port 13000 packages until next week then ;-) | 23:21 |
| rzr | let me turn my main.c generator one | 23:22 |
| rzr | let me turn my main.c generator on | 23:22 |
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| djszapi_ | rzr: http://paste.kde.org/115885/ | 23:41 |
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| MohammadAG | naw for fuck's sake | 23:51 |
| MohammadAG | I need a translate app on my N950, since there aren't any, I decided to make one, and Google decides to make the API paid on the 24th of August | 23:51 |
| frals | they announced that a loooooong time ago | 23:52 |
| MohammadAG | frals, I don't follow google announcements | 23:52 |
| frals | either way the mobile site is not THAT bad | 23:52 |
| djszapi_ | MohammadAG: I have been developing a dictionary app | 23:52 |
| djszapi_ | which can also use google translator. | 23:52 |
| frals | MohammadAG: me neither, but i noticed that since it was all over slashdot/engadget iirc ;) | 23:52 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi_, I need hebrew mainly | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | frals, I don't follow engadget | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | too Apple-y for my daily dosagd | 23:53 |
| frals | well it was on slashdot for sure | 23:53 |
| frals | engadget.com/exclude/apple, problem solved ;) | 23:53 |
| frals | (yes, that url filters out apple posts :p) | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | I don't follow slashdot, it disagrees with ./ | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | frals, engadget.com/exclude/exclude/apple | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, no longer seems to be working, it used to limit all posts to apple ones | 23:55 |
| rzr | what about babelfish.yahoo.com ? | 23:57 |
| rzr | djszapi: i would comment those doxygen calls | 23:57 |
| rzr | Scanning dependencies of target doxygen | 23:58 |
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| djszapi_ | rzr: we would like to solve the issue, not hiding it. | 23:58 |
| djszapi_ | at least me :p | 23:59 |
| rzr | noone will read them they'll be docpurged :) | 23:59 |
| rzr | well try to build tex if you bored :) | 23:59 |
| djszapi_ | rzr: if you check the 0001 patch out, that is exactly supposed to do that | 23:59 |
| djszapi_ | and that patch applies fine.. | 23:59 |
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