IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2011-08-29

SpeedEvilAny easy hacks to get flash onto the harmattan browser?00:08
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rzrSpeedEvil: gnash would fit ?00:52
SpeedEvilUnfortunately, gnash doesn't do much content.00:53
SpeedEvilAt least IME.00:53
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rzrdo u need swf for video or something else ?00:57
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ZrZSpeedEvil: it would be better to focus on a website proxy that convert flv to ogv on the fly01:11
SpeedEvilZrZ: Indeed - I've sort-of-considered coding that - but the 'DRM' makes it awkward01:17
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ZrZSpeedEvil: how do apple platform manage thoses swf contents ?01:48
rzrbtw flash never worked correctly on desktop for years so i would not make any effort on it01:50
SpeedEvilZrZ: Not at all as I understand it02:01
SpeedEvilSpecial apple client02:01
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javispedroobs. still. not. fixed!02:25
rzrweek end :)02:26
berndhspossibly some motherly type people discouraging work on weekends02:29
* javispedro has had to work this weekend, so conscience is clear :)02:31
berndhssip phone would be nice for n95003:33
javispedroaha, tuxrace working, including vibration feedback when crashing on trees03:35
javispedrosadly, obs is down so you are not playing. MWAHAHA.03:35
rzrberndhs: sip is there03:47
rzri use it03:47
berndhsit is ? must not have looked in the right place03:51
javispedroDocScrutinizer: lis302d range is -2G ... 2G ?03:51
DocScrutinizercan get switched to (iirc) +-8g03:52
javispedroand you remember how it is configured under Maemo?03:52
rzrberndhs: just try to add an account03:54
berndhsoh i see03:55
DocScrutinizersorry no03:56
DocScrutinizerI'd guess though it's+-203:57
javispedroI think qt sensors is slightly wrong03:57
* javispedro goes check datasheet03:58
DocScrutinizerfsck qtsensors, it can just be wrong, as qt has no permissions to access accel directly03:58
DocScrutinizera genuine task for a daemon aka middleware03:59
DocScrutinizerI'm not going to elaborate on this *again*03:59
javispedroI meant qtmobility04:00
DocScrutinizerbitched about it on #meego-arm for ~9 months04:00
javispedroit goes like this hw -> kernel -> input device -> sensord (daemon running as root) -> qtmobility -> app04:00
javispedroI think qtmobility is miscalibrating somewhere04:00
javispedroby a very, very small amoun04:00
DocScrutinizerqtm, where's the difference? is it a root process, is it unique?04:00
DocScrutinizerthere's no calibration04:01
javispedroDocScrutinizer: sensord is a unique root daemon, and is the only one that listens to the kernel04:01
DocScrutinizerI'm not even going to check wha it does04:02
DocScrutinizerit's boring nausea to me04:02
javispedrodunno what your complain is :)04:02
javispedroeither way mine is that it says z = 10.4g.04:02
javispedrowhen it should be 9.8g04:03
DocScrutinizerthe idiotic polling been my concern04:03
DocScrutinizerthen your accel is decalibrated, that's a chip issue though04:03
DocScrutinizerthere's a fixed conversion factor from vhip readout to real g04:04
DocScrutinizermeh, read the datasheet. I probably will fall asleep on reading it a 70th time04:05
javispedroeither way my initial idea is plain wrong04:05
javispedrothat they were mixing 1024 vs 1000, that would not produce such a large error04:05
DocScrutinizerso 1g04:07
DocScrutinizerdon't you think that's rather 1.04g than 10.4m/s^2?04:08
javispedrothat is the plain wrong part ;)04:11
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DocScrutinizerthe plain wrong part is lis3lv02d driver I'd guess04:14
DocScrutinizeror the way it's configured04:14
DocScrutinizerif only it was for the missing sysnode to set up the highpass filter04:17
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* javispedro likes what they did with the sensor framework06:01
javispedroI'm not even sure it really polls lis203d06:01
javispedroat least from sw it does have the option to allow for "hw frequency"/"0 Hz"06:02
* javispedro sets 20Hz for games, that will be enough06:02
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djszapihiemanshu ping10:12
djszapiCould you please give the output of this command again: "dpkg -l opengles-sgx-img-common" -> You said last time it has not been installed, but that is the dependency of libqt4, so it is something very ambigous then.10:13
djszapisorry this one: "dpkg -l opengles-sgx-img-common-dev"10:13
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faenil_good morning everyoneeee :D11:43
lcukmorning faenil_11:51
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faenilok back with a decent nick :)11:52
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hiemanshudjszapi: pong12:20
hiemanshudjszapi: from scratchbox?12:20
hiemanshudjszapi: that will have to wait, I am at work, and no scratchbox on this machine12:22
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djszapirzr: I need your packaging help about couple of packages at some point.12:38
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djszapirzr: it is worth syncing up with There are packages there missing in the shared repository.13:07
djszapiWho is the maintainer of that page ? We could talk to him to share his/her work.13:08
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djszapimmm, samba was available for fremantle.13:46
DocScrutinizer([2011-08-29 05:02:51] * javispedro sets 20Hz for games, that will be enough) Setting up and handling the chip correctly would enable both virtually infinite sampling rate (as the chip would instantly fire an IRQ as soon as any of the readings changes) as well as hw completely going to sleep when input is static aka device siting on desk for example (modulo your timers in game of course, that might be not that smart, or need to update13:50
DocScrutinizeranimations on screen)13:50
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DocScrutinizeralas it's almost impossible to do that correctly with the given API this kernel module driver provides13:52
DocScrutinizernot to speak about sensord that probably never heard of such advanced concepts13:52
DocScrutinizeractually I think those 20Hz *are* the polling timer setting for sensord13:54
* DocScrutinizer wonders what's the polling frequency used for /dev/<keyboard> ;-P13:55
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: anything that polls is just too slow :( wonder when people will realize that and write real time OSes for phones, apple got it right with iOS, RIM hopes to get it right with QNX13:58
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: the real issue with polling is it's a batery and CPU resources hog, for absolutely no good reason usually - at least when you got such nice alternatives *in chip* as freely configurable hw IRQ generators that emit event driven or conditional IRQ14:01
DocScrutinizerLIS302 has even two of them14:01
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: thats one of the few issues that a low of people need to fix, including Nokia and Android14:02
hiemanshuand M$ too14:03
djszapiexcept that QNX is not free like Linux.14:03
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djszapiand developing such an OS internally would pretty much mean you die out from the market by the time you finish.14:04
djszapisince it is not 2 days.14:04
djszapiand this mobile market changes rapidly.14:04
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hiemanshudjszapi: Apple got it right14:04
djszapiWhen did it get right, from the beginning ?14:05
djszapior recently ?14:05
djszapithat is the point, yes.14:05
hiemanshuMeego was written from scratch too not too long ago even when symbian was around14:06
djszapiMeeGo is using upstream...14:06
djszapiand Linux upstream cannot be compared real time OSes like QNX.14:06
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Stskeepsis any linux distribution 'from scratch'..?14:06
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lcukthe mobile market seems to want high definition input14:08
lcukpen devices are seen more and more14:08
lcukonce again14:08
lcukwe need software to make use of it :P14:09
djszapithat is one thing what you need, and what the reality is :)14:09
djszapiI would even dare to say, iOS is nowhere to QNX in response time, but some please feel free to prove me wrong with benchmarks.14:10
lcukdjszapi, have you seen the new lenovo tablet?  runs nvidia chipset and is dreamy14:11
djszapiI do not care about tablets ;-)14:11
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lcukyou do not care about many things14:11
djszapiwhen I have a small amount of time, I try to spend it with handsets.14:11
DocScrutinizer(<djszapi> and Linux upstream cannot be compared real time OSes like QNX. ) the problem is more around the fact that upstream not really has a good idea about special requirements of embedded14:13
djszapi -> first sentence: What advantages would a real time operating system like QNX bring to the smart phone / tablet space vs what android and iOS are doing.14:14
djszapireading more forums, it seems to me that QNX is a different category to Android/iOS.14:14
djszapiDocScrutinizer: yes and no.14:15
DocScrutinizerwhile on a desktop and even a laptop polling an accelerometer chip 20 times a second is a semi-sane thing as it makes the handler code shorter, on an embedded device polling is an absolute nogo as it eats battery for nuttin, by waking CPU frequently14:15
DocScrutinizeron the typical phone-class/PDA embedded device you don't really want a realtime OS14:16
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DocScrutinizerthen OTOH most users/devels aren't aware what realtime actually means14:17
djszapiI was doing QNX development in the past, and it is really cool.14:18
djszapiI love the kernel design much better than the Linux kernel.14:18
DocScrutinizerrealtime doe *not* mean it's per definition a fast responding OS14:18
djszapithat is a very serious part of it.14:18
hiemanshuwell QNX has a microkernel14:18
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: ofc it doesn't, but atleast it isnt eating CPU cycle by polling 20 times a second14:19
SpeedEvilRealtime means a well-defined time.14:19
DocScrutinizerrealtime means the response to evens is guaranteed to complete in a defined timeframe - whatever the actual duration of that timeframe14:19
fluxhiemanshu, it could very well be, and the interval of such polling would be exactly 1/20 seconds :)14:19
fluxsometimes you just have hardware that cannot be used without polling.14:20
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: why would rt-OS imply it doesn't poll?14:20
DocScrutinizerflux: yes, and that's the sad case when EE did a fairly poor job14:21
DocScrutinizerIOW on crappy embedded devices you actually might find subsystems that *need* polling14:21
artemmDocScrutinizer: Not that it would be strictly related, but rt-OS kind'of assumes embedded use -> need to care about power as well14:22
fluxartemm, not all embedded use implies using on battery power14:22
artemmtrue, yet it's much more frequent than for non rt-OS14:23
djszapiI do not still find iOS and QNX under the same category. It is meantioned on more sites more like with Android.14:23
DocScrutinizererr, well. rt-OS are the OS of choice for "real embedded" like ABS-controllers in your car, etc. But of course you as well see rt-OS in industrial scale environments14:23
artemmalso if I remember my university classes correctly, it's much easier to base guaranteed response time from interrupts rather than via careful CPU based scheduling14:24
DocScrutinizerthat's the point14:24
fluxartemm, dunno about that, both micro waves and laptops are pretty common ;)14:24
DocScrutinizeranyway my point stands: upstream knows a shit about proper management/handling of IRQ driven embedded, see lis3lv0214:26
DocScrutinizerand sensord14:26
DocScrutinizerthis been my concern (and caused me bitching a lot and getting lots of flames in response) regarding #meego-arm policy of "only upstream"14:27
Stskeeps.. didn't we finish that discussion by finding out that the openmoko guys didn't care enough to upstream their changes to linux kernel?14:28
DocScrutinizerno, we didn't14:28
Stskeepsthen i misunderstood14:29
djszapiyes, but I think it is not possible to change to QNX under the current curcumstances without enormous manpower who could work on it. There are thousand projects you need to rewrite for QNX meaning that you will die out from the rapidly evolving market. Hence it might work in theory, but not in practice.14:29
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DocScrutinizersuggesting to change to another core OS is main silly14:29
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: suggesting to change to another core OS is mere silly14:29
djszapiEven if the driver development itself would be much easier because of the microkernel architecture of QNX.14:30
DocScrutinizerwhat shall be done is careful reconsideration of the "upstream first, upstream always" policy, and especially upstream needs careful evaluation of each part regarding undesirable implications regarding performance on embedded environments14:31
DocScrutinizernot always the upstream driver is appropriate for the task, even if it has the "right name"14:32
DocScrutinizersame applies to whole frameworks (e.g. sensord which - it seems to me -has a basically ill concept, for embedded)14:33
DocScrutinizerand no, I won't apply patches to fix the fundamental concept decisions made in such a framework14:34
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: and no, I won't provide patches to fix the fundamental concept decisions made in such a framework14:34
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djszapiI am not familiar with the sensord framework, but are you saying that it is possible to write a real time driver if the kernel scheduling was not designed that way ?14:35
djszapi -> Anybody idea for this packaging issue after 100% build ?14:36
thpJaffa: "PySide was a Nokia-led project" sounds a bit like it is a project of the past14:38
thpJaffa: "PySide is a project that was Nokia-led" might be better?14:38
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: we are not at all talking about realtime here14:38
djszapiohh so you changed topic in the meantime..14:39
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: I was concerned about polling14:39
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: no, I never had that topic of realtime14:39
sandst1djszapi: any "No such file or directory" can be handled with sbox_ctl restart 95% of the time14:39
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: [2011-08-29 13:16:58] <DocScrutinizer> on the typical phone-class/PDA embedded device you don't really want a realtime OS14:40
djszapimmm, I was considering the real timeness of QNX which is the biggest advantage of it imho.14:41
djszapiand the microkernel architecture, ok, nvm :)14:41
djszapibut then I do not understand why polling cannot be implemented for the linux kernel14:42
djszapi* polling issue cannot be solved14:42
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: so it's been yu who changed the topic, away from polling towards realtime. Or you at least followed hiemanshu on that route14:42
djszapiQNX whispers that topic to me, sorry for that.14:43
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djszapiother than real time, I am not sure why it is QNX specific question. Why cannot it be solved for the Linux kernel ?14:44
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: it easily can be solved, if kernel maintainers and meego kernel devels wouldn't follow blindly whatever upstream offers14:44
djszapiyep, so it is not QNX related at all :)14:44
fluxI guess in the context of sensord it doesn't really matter that the polling interval is exactly t seconds, so it's not a hard realtime problem14:44
DocScrutinizerdang, I never even written QNX here before14:44
djszapiit is funny because Harmattan has an internal kernel, they could do their own implementation and design.14:45
DocScrutinizer^f your backscroll for string QNX in any of my posts14:45
fluxthere's always RTLinux ;)14:45
djszapiyeah, sure...nowhere close to QNX though :)14:45
djszapisandst1: mmm, thanks for the idea. It did not help, I guess it is a missing latex, but I grabbed it from debian upstream. Maybe they forgot to mention that dependency in the control file :p14:46
* DocScrutinizer turns away shouting "MEH!" - discuss your realtime till you get blue in the face. It's not on topic about polling14:46
djszapiDocScrutinizer: feel free to improve upstream.14:47
DocScrutinizerfeel free to *evaluate* upstream before you indiscriminately use it14:48
djszapisorry, but I do not understand your problem. Are you speaking about a kernel or userspace issue ? I think you can provide application/patch against any of them (in case of meego at least).14:49
DocScrutinizer[2011-08-29 13:34:39] <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: and no, I won't provide patches to fix the fundamental concept decisions made in such a framework14:49
djszapiwell, what you can do is to implement/design a way that you think is a niche (if it already exists then you cannot do it anything).14:50
DocScrutinizerand just in case of lis3lv02d.ko it turned out upstream is broken by design but nobody is willing to accept a better alternative written from scratch, as "there'S already this upstrem driver and we need to keep API compatibility" - even of a broken by design API14:52
DocScrutinizerfor sensord situation is hopeless14:52
djszapiwe did not accept the upstream security design.14:52
djszapiso it might be the sensor team, but there are teams who do not accept things unconditionally :)14:53
djszapibut I think yo ushould first to know why they decided that way (from documentation, code, mail or something like that)14:54
DocScrutinizerglad to hear, alas it's not a madatory common best practice to thoroughly evaluate upstream before adopting it for _your_ very special system14:54
DocScrutinizer(should know) for all I know meego architecture decisions were done by a crew of 4, in a dark pub after 4 beer each, and never got discussed publicly14:55
djszapiyes, that is why I dislike meego, yep.14:55
DocScrutinizerso where will get me any asking "why did you decide to use sensord?"14:56
djszapiWe described it in the security framework, why we decided that way. I would also expect it from others14:57
DocScrutinizerso where will it get me any to ask"why did you decide to use sensord?"14:57
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: nice14:57
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DocScrutinizeralas it's obviously not the way meego "community" (with ticks!) works14:58
djszapimeego is open source, not open design :)14:59
* DocScrutinizer away14:59
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elzalemhey! anyone else experiencing issues with the N950 and its cell reception? i have 5 bars on the n900 but the n950 shows 1 bar and loses coverage a LOT15:15
dm8tbrdjszapi: btw, did you get around to filing that malf bug back then?15:15
DocScrutinizerelzalem: known issue, yes15:15
djszapidm8tbr: there is no bug in malf.15:15
elzalemDocScrutinizer: so defiantly not hardware issue? hopefully to be fixed with future releases?15:16
DocScrutinizerdunno, I'd suspect it *is* a hw issue15:16
dm8tbrdjszapi: I thought you wanted to file an issue about a possible change/improvement. Some discussion with DocScrutinizer IIRC15:17
djszapidm8tbr: its design is nice.15:18
djszapiwe figured out everything is alrightish15:19
dm8tbrI see15:20
djszapias in on the newer software version at least.15:21
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* Venemo_N950 wants new software for da N95015:23
leinirmoar softwares plz! ;)15:26
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djszapianybody porting samba to harmattan ?15:27
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elzalemany IRC client for n950 ??15:29
macmaNvenemo just keeps repeating "new software for n950" every day?15:30
macmaNi hope that hexing approach works15:30
macmaNlord knows nothing else seems to15:30
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leinirquassel's coming as well15:31
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi: so on "newer software" the echo wtf >/var/malf is fixed?15:36
Jaffathp: "was Nokia-led" because they started it, but now it's "INdT-led".15:36
Jaffathp: But point taken15:36
djszapiDocScrutinizer: yep, as we discussed.15:37
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DocScrutinizerah, so they added some sort of hash to it?15:38
djszapiwhat do you mean by fixed ?15:38
DocScrutinizer[Fr 26. August 2011] [10:41:56] <djszapi> DocScrutinizer: I am filing a bug about /var/malf, it is a very serious deny allow issue (even if just root can do it).15:40
djszapiyes, but since it is reboot, it is not deny allow at all15:40
djszapi* it reboots15:40
DocScrutinizerso that's what I meant with "fixed". They changed sth in new firmware so it allows booting despite /var/malf existing?15:41
djszapiyes, as we discussed ;)15:42
DocScrutinizer>>During our ongoing investigation of the incident we have discovered that a database table containing developer forum members' email addresses has been accessed, by exploiting a vulnerability in the bulletin board software that allowed an SQL Injection attack. Initially we believed that only a small number of these forum member records had been accessed, but further investigation has identified that the number is significantly larger.<<15:47
DocScrutinizerImportant information from the Nokia Developer website team Von: "Nokia Developer" <>  An:  Datum: 2011-08-29 10:0215:47
SpeedEvilI'm wondering about 'no secure information' - are password hashes secure information.15:48
DocScrutinizer^^^ Nokia's emergency mail as quoted above15:49
DocScrutinizer>>Though the initial vulnerability was addressed immediately, we have now taken the developer community website offline as a precautionary measure, while we conduct further investigations and security assessments<< hehehe15:51
kimjuSpeedEvil, userinfo and authentication stuff might have been in separate databases/tables.15:54
mikhasor salted rendering the mere hash useless15:54
kimjuas they seem to have some kind of single signon thing.15:54
SpeedEvilSalting does not render hashes useless.15:54
SpeedEvilSalting means that you can only crack a password of one user at a time.15:54
SpeedEvilEspecially given increases in CPU power in the future.15:55
mikhasyes? and you expect one-time hashes to be easily crackable?15:55
SpeedEvilDictionary attacks15:56
berndhsprobably the same attacker responsible for OBS downtime15:56
djszapiconspiracy theory! :)15:57
mikhasso what? dictionary passwords are always unsafe15:57
mikhasI dont need to obtain the hashes for that …15:57
berndhswhy is obs still down for harmattan ?15:57
djszapiwfm, what do you mean by "down" ?15:58
berndhsi mean it doesnt build anything, says the setup of the repository is broken15:59
berndhsthis is c.obs for harmattan only, it build ok for the rest15:59
berndhssame condition as the whole weekend16:00
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SpeedEvilmikhas: By dictionary, I mean aything up to and including [A-Z0-9a-z!@#$%^&]+16:02
djszapiN9mikhas I realized a cool vkb feature16:03
djszapiN9pressing on vowels for a bit longer, it offers different versions with accents and the like16:05
DocScrutinizeryeah, I've read about that somewhere16:06
dm8tbrberndhs: there was some maintenance recently and some downtimes related to that. might want to poke lbt or x-fade though.16:08
mikhasdjszapiN9, yup16:08
mikhasdjszapi, actually, with my current work, you can put mini layouts in that popup16:09
berndhsdm8tbr: yeah, people have been poking lbt and x-fade for the last month about it :)16:09
mikhassay, a numerical block16:09
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lbtberndhs: sorry, I ended up working all weekend16:10
lbtand, TBH, I leave harmattan to Niels16:10
berndhslbt: yes i know its not you16:10
djszapiN9mikhas, right16:10
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lbtI know Niels is working hard on the overhead that formeego is causing16:11
djszapiN9mikhas it is an advantage to hkb16:13
berndhsi should start working on some ce stuff, #meego-arm is the place to talk about it ?16:13
mikhasdjszapiN9, you know you can load custom VKB layouts, using MesInput from OVI store?16:13
djszapiN9see topic16:13
mikhasI should put a demo together, some day.16:14
djszapimikhas: I dislike OVI store :)16:14
djszapiactually, it is good enough. My only problem is that they are a bit pushy16:14
djszapibut mmh, I would probably load a layout with arrows :)16:15
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djszapimikhas: I am trying it now =)16:17
djszapimikhas: can a vkb be done technically which is nice and does not break the swipe UX ?16:18
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ajalkaneArrow keys are actually the thing I most miss from this vkb. Otherwise I like it quite much.16:27
djszapi<3 VKB over HKB :p16:28
ajalkaneOne thing cool about N950... when hkb open, double tap gets straight to the last open app without swiping lock screen away16:30
mikhasajalkane, there's a bug for that ;-)16:30
mikhasajalkane, arrow keys will never arrive in default layouts16:30
ajalkaneHandy for ircing onwork place.16:30
mikhasbut I want to make it possible to easily modify teh layout files to include such16:31
mikhasajalkane, exactly16:31
MeeGoBotBug 22123 nor, Medium, ---, michael, NEW, Virtual keyboard layouts should allow for arrow keys16:32
ajalkanemikhas: a custom layout works just fine. Ii just occassionally need them, but when I do missing them is frustrating16:32
mikhasthing is, I would not win a fight with our designers to include arrows keys in default layouts16:33
mikhasajalkane, I miss arrow keys in browser's URL bar16:33
ajalkaneI can imagine. I guess it's too 'geeky' requirement16:34
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ajalkanemikhas: yeah there often16:34
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DocScrutinizerwhy is it always the designers that are the #1 PITA in a company?16:49
fralsusually its not the designers, its some screwed up manager16:50
kimju"I don't understand this feature -> it should not be allowed in the product"16:51
djszapififerboy hello belllo :)16:53
djszapiDocScrutinizer: designers are just puppets.16:53
djszapifrom what I heard, they normally have the limitation how to design.16:53
fluxarrows could be replaced with swipes in the terminal :)16:59
Stskeepsadd them to toolbar xml?17:01
fluxit supports gestures?17:02
Stskeepsno, but buttons?17:02
fluxin any case, they would be much more convenient if they were properly layed out on the vkb17:02
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fluxand toolbar gets quickly filled up17:05
kimjuI'd still like option for software to turn the vkb on/off programmatically, while still keeping focus and allowing hwkb (and maybe bluetooth-kb) work.17:05
ajalkaneThere's the symbol switch. Add third page for geeky stuff17:05
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fluxkimju, I really doubt there's going to be enhancements related to hwkb usage :)17:06
flux(but bluetooth kb support would be nice to keep alive, if it works)17:06
berndhsis there a signal that tells an application that the vkb is displayed17:07
kimjuflux, so do I.. so I'm not going to even bother trying to fill formal requests :)17:07
kimjuand all my other wishes seem to fall in the same category too17:08
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razvanpetruanyone using the Harmattan experimental target on mac? for me the deployment is slower than on windows...17:09
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fluxkimju, it's great that you have only wishes that can be so easily handled, that is, ignored :)17:09
razvanpetruperl sits there at 100% or something17:09
ajalkaneI heard bt kbd support was not finished17:09
fiferboyHi djszapi17:10
ajalkanebut that it's doable by community, ie its open code17:10
DocScrutinizerterminal kbd layout:   vs "normal":
DocScrutinizerswitch any time you want17:10
djszapiajalkane: yep, if you have all the kernel support for that.17:10
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djszapififerboy: I had a look at the tableview, it is a very long code :(17:15
djszapiIs there no better (and simpler) way of implementing the column logic ?17:16
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DocScrutinizeralso worth to remember:
razvanpetruso noone is using harmattan with a mac?17:26
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alteregorazvanpetru: there was a disclaimer, no N950s for mac fags17:28
razvanpetruwell, someone told me that it works better on Mac compared to Windows17:28
razvanpetruand it doesn't...17:29
djszapialterego: that is not true17:30
djszapialterego: it is even in the SDK documentation..17:30
razvanpetruyeah, it should work on all 3 platforms, as any good IDE should :)17:30
alteregodjszapi: I know, I was joking ...17:30
djszapiwell, we cannot know without smileys, really ;)17:31
fiferboydjszapi: You can look at how Tumbler (in com/nokia/meego/extras) handles columns17:33
fiferboydjszapi: They currently all scroll independantly, but it is probably not difficult to lock them together17:33
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razvanpetruwhat's deploy time on Linux?17:47
razvanpetruon Windows it's ~30s, mac is about 50s17:47
tommafrom creator to n950?17:53
tommawith packaging?17:54
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faenilnews ? :)17:54
faenilhi everyone ;)17:54
djszapihi reinventor ;)17:54
* djszapi runs quikcly17:54
razvanpetrutomma: yes17:55
razvanpetruI thought Symbian was slow, but n950 takes the cake so far...17:55
faenildjszapi: friends call me Leonardo, lol17:56
faeniln950 slow?17:56
jreznikdeployment I think17:56
faeniloh k17:56
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tommai think the relevant part in that is packaging as sending file trough sftp and installing in device shouldn't be affected by platform17:57
razvanpetrudeployment, yes17:58
razvanpetruyes, packaging is the problem17:58
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tommado you know how slow it is to compile qt creator in windows? =) could be it is slow hdd too but on windows qmake havent even read all .pro files when my linux box has almost compiled it18:01
razvanpetruthere's a case for sherlock holmes...18:02
razvanpetruI wonder what could make it so slow, for packaging it makes sense because it's running some tools probably in cygwin18:03
razvanpetruor mingw's versions18:03
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razvanpetrubtw tomma, are you compiling qtc with mingw or visual C++?18:04
razvanpetruI would except vcpp to be much faster18:04
tommatook 12s to package my project18:04
tommaand thats only packaging no deploy18:05
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tommalets try with whole thing...18:05
tommahmm 16s18:07
razvanpetru20s for me whole thing18:07
SputI have never seen a slower cpp compiler than msvc in my life18:10
Sputit also doesn't seem to make use of the CPU, because only one maybe 10-20% of one core are used...18:11
razvanpetruSput: I think it's the build system that will launch multiple cl.exe18:12
tommayeah nmake cant run multiple jobs but there is jom18:12
razvanpetrutheir new build system is supposed to be better I've heard18:12
tommawhich should be used in qtcreator with msvc target18:12
Sputyeah I don't care really, but I've seen it takes *ages* to compile Quassel on a windows box18:12
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faenilso guys19:09
faenilI need a free 3d model19:09
faenilof something that can move boxes19:09
faeniland needs no animation :D19:09
faenilI looked for a snowplow or snowcat, but could not find it19:10
faenilwhat else could I look for?19:10
faenillet's turn this boring monday afternoon into smthg useful :D19:10
SpeedEvilmove boxes?19:11
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faenilfor my sokoban clone :D19:11
faenil3d, for n95019:11
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faenilno ideas? :D19:26
faenilcome on, use your fantasy ;:D19:26
ajalkanea meegon? Bonus: they're two dimensional19:27
faenilnot bad, but the game is not only for MeeGo, and I need it to be 3d :D19:28
ajalkaneoh bugger19:28
berndhsget a really large number of 2D ones and stack them up ?19:29
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faenilajalkane: you're free to ignore my question, please behave :D19:29
ajalkanei guess bugs and buggers are kinda like swearing in dev oriented channel19:31
faenilbut none is talking here, and this is a fun subject, oh come on.....19:32
ajalkanei have a baby sitting on me... so how about a baby in diapers pushing? With an angry red face19:33
faenilI see why you're upset then, lol19:33
ajalkanehe hasn't shat or puked on me yet, so all's well... knock on wood19:34
djszapi_hiemanshu: which fdo dictionary were you referring to ? got a link ?19:35
faenilhey djszapi_ ! :)19:35
djszapi_hey :)19:37
fiferboyOkay, what do people think of this:
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* hiemanshu ->dinner();19:47
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djszapi_hiemanshu segfault after calling the method ? =p19:49
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djszapi_hiemanshu: it is only an urban dictionary.19:51
lcukfiferboy, ++19:55
djszapi_I am planning to add that feature to my application, too. However it might have more features over the plugin architecture.19:56
hiemanshudjszapi_: The Process ended with error code 0 :D19:57
djszapi_fiferboy: why not talkative names instead of numbers ?19:59
fiferboydjszapi_: I'm going to add that into my patch20:00
djszapi_right, great job :)20:00
fiferboyI just need to work out all the name (orange1, orange2, orange3, orange4, etc)20:00
fiferboyThe numbers were an easy starting point because that is how they are referenced in the meegotouch theme20:01
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mikhasfiferboy, but your core colors dont modify the VKB =p20:17
fiferboymikhas: Do meegotouch theme colours modify the VKB?20:19
mikhassome do, yes20:19
fiferboyHmm, I'll look into that then :)20:19
mikhaswell, the buttons are graphical assets, mostly20:20
mikhastoolbar buttons are fully themeable20:20
mikhasand fonts + fonts colors also follows theme20:20
mikhasfiferboy, "Component.onCompleted: theme.color = 15" <= that's bad20:20
mikhascant you use enums for that?20:20
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mikhasfiferboy, but you know? we've been discussing the idea that the VKB should pick up some colors from the app20:23
mikhasif that would help to make the VKB feel more like an integral part of the app20:23
mikhasso far, we haven't yet come up with a good enough justification for that20:23
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mikhasthe foundation is there (as so often …)20:24
djszapi_mikhas: he will use enums for that, at least we agreed about that20:24
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fiferboymikhas: That would be cool20:30
fiferboydjszapi_: Just having trouble with colour names - they seem a bit all over the place20:32
fiferboy14, 15, 16 - lightOrange, orange, darkOrange20:32
fiferboy17, 18, 19 - darkYellow, yellow, lightYellow20:32
mikhasyou mean they're not consistently mapped?20:33
mikhasthat's where enums would bring more clarity20:33
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djszapi_fiferboy: that is fine20:34
RST38hWhy not use #RRGGBB?20:36
fiferboymikhas: To my eye it looks a bit inconsistant20:36
fiferboyRST38h: Because there are only 18 built-in possibilities20:36
fiferboyIt doesn't allow specification of that level20:36
RST38h#RRGGBB worked for me,in QML20:36
fiferboyRST38h: Working with the meegotouch background colours for Button, etc20:36
fiferboyThey are built-in png files20:36
RST38hAh, the meegotouch!20:36
RST38hYou finally resorted to meegotouch?20:37
fiferboyYes, this is making QML components use the MeegoTouch theme files to looks like the built in apps20:37
fiferboyRST38h: No, not using MeegoTouch, just the theming for QML20:37
fiferboyThat is how the existing qt components are themed in QML, except they only use one colour currently20:38
fiferboyI'm trying to make it so it will use all the available colours20:38
rzrI heard voices here20:40
RST38hnever mind20:40
RST38hjust us, cows20:40
RST38hBeheading rats for fun and profit:
djszapi_rzr: please help me :)20:47
djszapi_rzr: libssh-dev does not build20:48
rzrhow comes ?20:51
rzrcobs is still down isnt it ?20:51
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djszapi_rzr: it does not build locally either20:53
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rcg1any news on the obs status?21:08
djszapi_rzr ping21:08
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djszapi_Venemo_N950 hey :)21:50
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wazdguys, is there some problem with N950's Contacts list cause I've deleted all existing contacts and tried to import new ones from the n900 and it just shows "0 imported"21:55
Venemo_N950hello djszapi, how're you?22:04
Venemo_N950ok, so I'm not disconnected22:05
djszapi_alrightish :)22:05
djszapi_how about you and the holidays ? :)22:05
infobotVenemo_N950 no you're not22:05
Venemo_N950djszapi_, I've come home already, but now I'm visiting my girlfriend22:06
Venemo_N950haven't had any time to code22:07
djszapi_understandable =)22:08
Venemo_N950djszapi_, does IRC Chatter run on your N9?22:08
Venemo_N950nah, it's (unfortunately) not what you think :P22:08
fiferboytheme.color will now take theme number (ie 16), color name (ie darkOrange), or color variant (ie orange3)22:26
Venemo_N950fiferboy, 'will now'?22:27
fiferboyVenemo_N950: I mean, my contribution will now allow it :)22:27
fiferboyI have added colour support to qt component styles22:27
Venemo_N950nice :)22:28
arfollis thre any way to get the doc of wiki?22:33
fralswazd: delete the existing sync profile, i guess it knows which ones been imported once (but not sure)22:43
Venemo_N950frals, ping22:44
Venemo_N950fenix is lazy22:47
Venemo_N950despite having the same settings for peak time and refresh interval, it stopped automatically refreshing my imap accounts22:47
tommait does refresh it at peak time22:49
tommawell atleast on my device22:50
Venemo_N950and it does not load nor images neither links for my MfE account22:50
Venemo_N950it did for me22:52
Venemo_N950but stopped doing so lately... I have to manually press the refresh button22:52
Venemo_N950but the fact that it doesn't handle html emails in MfE annoys me more22:54
Venemo_N950I hope it's fixed in the next big software22:55
rzrback was watching a documentary22:58
rzrwho care of exchange ?22:58
fralsVenemo_N950: did mess with the settings? there is option to show everything as plain text mail22:59
fralsrzr: pretty much anyone working for a big company, i would guess :p22:59
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djszapi_rzr: so wanna package ? :p23:13
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rzrdjszapi: what for ? obs is down23:21
rzrand i am going to be offline for a month next week23:21
djszapi_rzr: well, libssh-devel23:21
djszapi_rzr: you wanna port 13000 packages until next week then ;-)23:21
rzrlet me turn my main.c generator one23:22
rzrlet me turn my main.c generator on23:22
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MohammadAGnaw for fuck's sake23:51
MohammadAGI need a translate app on my N950, since there aren't any, I decided to make one, and Google decides to make the API paid on the 24th of August23:51
fralsthey announced that a loooooong time ago23:52
MohammadAGfrals, I don't follow google announcements23:52
fralseither way the mobile site is not THAT bad23:52
djszapi_MohammadAG: I have been developing a dictionary app23:52
djszapi_which can also use google translator.23:52
fralsMohammadAG: me neither, but i noticed that since it was all over slashdot/engadget iirc ;)23:52
MohammadAGdjszapi_, I need hebrew mainly23:53
MohammadAGfrals, I don't follow engadget23:53
MohammadAGtoo Apple-y for my daily dosagd23:53
fralswell it was on slashdot for sure23:53, problem solved ;)23:53
frals(yes, that url filters out apple posts :p)23:54
MohammadAGI don't follow slashdot, it disagrees with ./23:54
MohammadAGhmm, no longer seems to be working, it used to limit all posts to apple ones23:55
rzrwhat about ?23:57
rzrdjszapi: i would comment those doxygen calls23:57
rzrScanning dependencies of target doxygen23:58
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djszapi_rzr: we would like to solve the issue, not hiding it.23:58
djszapi_at least me :p23:59
rzrnoone will read them they'll be docpurged :)23:59
rzrwell try to build tex if you bored :)23:59
djszapi_rzr: if you check the 0001 patch out, that is exactly supposed to do that23:59
djszapi_and that patch applies fine..23:59

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