IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2011-08-22

sandst1Booooooom! Check out MyMoves bringing configurable gestures for Harmattan
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djszapi_SpeedEvil: operation not permitted, if I try to run the irc-chatter from command line.01:22
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BrettQas root?01:24
specialit will definitely fail as root01:25
BrettQyou need to disable aegis to run it from root01:26
djszapi_no you are not root if you open up a terminal01:26
djszapi_I guess I could manage the aegis issue, if it is that ;-)01:27
djszapi_unfortunately, not.01:27
BrettQno icon shows up?01:27
djszapi_there is an icon and blank screen if I try to launch it.01:27
BrettQyeah...thats not good01:27
djszapi_It might be that, I am using N9, and it was written for an outdated software.01:28
BrettQdoes the N9 image have newer versions of Qt?01:29
specialsandst1: installing now :p01:29
djszapi_yeah, it works on the N950, not on N9...01:31
BrettQdo we need another Google Reader app?01:31
specialBrettQ: probably01:32
BrettQi have one about 90% complete, but it uses swipe gestures, so it will need to be redone a bit01:32
specialare there any other than newsflow out now?01:32
BrettQoffline storage for articles (not images atm)01:32
BrettQgNewsReader is being ported from Symbian I think01:33
BrettQi refuse to use my E7 until it gets the Anna update, so I haven't tested that01:33
artemmwhy not wait until Belle then? :)01:34
specialI'm picky about the UI of my feed readers, haven't found one that really works yet.01:34
BrettQever used Reeder on iOS?01:34
specialI have on mac, not ios01:35
djszapi_special: do you have Mac ?01:35
BrettQthats what I was aiming for01:35
BrettQI'm open to suggestions for the UI. Need to speed up the feed updates right now & use the MeeGo components01:37
specialI'm not sure exactly what I want. On desktop, I use the expanded view and 'n' my way through, scanning headlines and reading on when desired01:38
specialI also have some tags that I care about more than others; browsing by tag and seeing unread counts for each tag is critical.01:39
BrettQunread counts are done01:39
BrettQby tag or sub01:39
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specialdo you use account login, or oauth?01:43
BrettQclientlogin right now01:45
BrettQplanning on doing oauth2 though because I want to allow sharing with Twitter01:46
djszapi_qrc:/qml/harmattan/FirstrunPage.qml:21:1: module "com.meego.extras" is not installed -> This might the issue for N901:48
djszapi_where does this import/module come from ?01:49
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BrettQwondering if the dev just needs to use com.meego instead of com.meego.extras02:17
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BrettQnope...that's not it02:30
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BrettQdj: do you see /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego/extras on your N9?02:45
BrettQthat should be the directory for com.meego.extras02:46
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QantouriscOk weird question: why would i NOT want to by a phone with harmattan ?08:36
TronicQantourisc: Because it is not available (yet or in your country), or because you are afraid there won't be enough apps for it.08:37
QantouriscOk sorry, then i'm in the wrong channel :)08:37
TronicBecause Android or iPhone5 may have flashier UI?08:37
QantouriscUI is no concern of mine :)08:38
TronicJust answering the question :)08:38
QantouriscI was kinda asking for N900 and what os is on there08:38
TronicWell, Harmattan is the next best thing to N900. Not quite as open but still based on Debian and you have pretty much control and the Store is very friendly towards open-source developers too.08:39
Qantourischow is it not as open ?08:39
TronicAegis security system.08:39
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Qantourisca right ?08:40
QantouriscTronic: can i kill that ?08:40
TronicOn developer devices at least, pretty much, yes.08:40
TronicI suppose you could even install an entirely different OS if you wanted to.08:41
QantouriscTronic: so it will depend on the final hardware then ?08:41
QantouriscTronic: what differnt os ? :)08:41
TronicCommunity Meego or some other Linux-based system, I suppose.08:42
Qantouriscow wait ... this channel is about the bastard child of meego and meamo ?08:42
TronicI'm pretty sure you don't actually want to do that (any more than you would on N900) because the other OSes will suck.08:42
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TronicHarmattan is Maemo 6 and it implements Meego APIs.08:43
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* Qantourisc hopes meego grows up fast ?08:43
TronicNot really a combination of the two, just another version of Maemo.08:43
Qantouriscdon't suppost i can upgrade n900 to m6 ?08:43
TronicWith entirely new UI (based on Qt this time).08:43
TronicYou won't be able to upgrade.08:44
Qantouriscpfff ... the mobile market still didn't mature imo08:44
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TronicBy mature you mean become PC?08:46
Qantouriscstandard, open, upgradable08:47
TronicOr more precisely, x86/Windows.08:47
Qantouriscno more childisch money sceams08:47
TronicMaybe I need to remind you that not even desktop Linux or OS X has that sort of compatibility.08:47
QantouriscNote: last word spelled wrong08:48
QantouriscTronic: can you give an example ?08:48
TronicSo, you think it is because of money that desktop Linux has no cross-version/cross-distro compatibility to speak of, while at the same time Windows 7 can still run software written from Windows 95 just fine?08:48
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TronicIt is a rare exception to have such compatibility and in fact x86/Windows remains the only platform that has it.08:49
QantouriscTronic: actaully, they are working on that :) (not that I like the solution entirely LSB)08:50
QantouriscI was not talking about software compatiblity actually08:50
TronicQantourisc: Yeah, as if standardizing libjpeg and a couple of others really helps. It won't fly, sorry.08:50
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QantouriscTronic: so my current 2 options are: wait and see what N950 bring08:51
Qantouriscor buy N900 before you can nolonger get them ?08:51
TronicQantourisc: Wait one more month to get a N9 and you'll be happy with it.08:52
QantouriscTronic: how do you know that ?08:52
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emanQantourisc: Definitely better to wait for the N9 rather than N900. N900 is nice, but bulky and starved of RAM08:52
wazdQantourisc: N950 is not on sale anyway08:53
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QantouriscTronic: how do you know Aegis wont bite me ?08:53
TronicN900 still (obviously) offers more software, and it has physical QWERTY, but let's face it, the hardware is badly outdated. It doesn't have enough RAM so even if you overclock, it is still too slow.08:53
Qantouriscit's still to slow ?!?08:53
TronicAlso, it has very crappy Maps (and the open-source alternatives aren't much better) while N9 has proper maps/navigation.08:53
Qantouriscthat should be enough ...08:54
TronicThe browser of N900 is OK but it doesn't have nearly as good HTML5 support as N9 does.08:54
TronicWe are talking about desktop Linux (essentially) running on a cellphone.08:54
QantouriscTronic: neither will N9 in a few yaers08:54
Tronic256 MB is certainly not enough.08:54
Tronic1 GB is barely enough but several gigabytes would be better.08:55
QantouriscTronic: .... what server stack do you guys run !?!08:55
Qantourisclet me take a look at my desktop:08:55
TronicDo you realize how memory-hog all this software Linux runs is?08:55
Qantourisc4.7GB in use: 1.3GB firefox (many open windows, memory hog, better use another brower)08:56
TronicJust to get your empty desktop you need to have kazillion libraries loaded, plus daemons such as dbus. Message passing based on XML documents...08:56
Qantourisc1GB opera (also a TON of open window, less of a hog)08:56
Qantouriscchronim 777M <= not sure why it's this mutch :)08:56
Qantourisc223M thunderbird (lots of mails)08:56
Qantouriscbut after that ...08:57
Qantouriscwe had the memory hogs08:57
Qantouriscand ram usage drops :)08:57
TronicIf you think of starting up a web browser, be prepared to spend a few hundred megabytes just for that. And a few hundred more if you use multiple websites at the same time. Or if you leave some AJAX-using site open for a few hours as it will keep leaking RAM all the time (this is a feature of Javascript).08:57
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TronicOn top of that you should have some cache RAM because Linux really sucks at I/O.08:59
Qantouriscdon't we love bloat :/08:59
TronicIf the system disk suffers of high I/O latencies (because you didn't have enough disk cache available), everything will freeze for tens of seconds.08:59
wazdWell, right now N950 consumes about 500 Mb, running for 3rd day, music, video, web, meecast, mail and clock opened :)08:59
Qantouriscbtw anyone considered using a browser adjutesd for mobile ?08:59
Qantouriscwazd: !?!09:00
Qantouriscwazd: where is all this going to ?09:00
TronicI guess this is because most communication happens via UNIX sockets that reside on the filesystem, so when the disk is blocked, nothing works.09:00
Qantouriscand where is the dam optimalization team !?!09:00
wazdQantourisc: memory leaks I guess09:00
Qantouriscwhere is the world going to ?09:00
wazdQantourisc: remember, it has really old firmware, back from june09:00
Qantouriscok :)09:01
Qantourisc(but still :p)09:01
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wazdall closed - 370 Mb09:02
wazdwhich clearly indicates memory leak :)09:02
Qantouriscwazd: including er excluding cache ?09:02
wazdincluding I guess09:02
Qantouriscwazd: that also means you'll need to reboot your phone once in a while :/09:02
Stskeepsalways exclude cache, cache is well-used memory09:02
Qantouriscwazd: well open a terminal and run free -m ?09:02
SpeedEvilTronic: Disk and socket operations do not mutially block09:03
hiemanshuI have some un-uploaded pics of N950, maybe I should up them09:03
SpeedEvilTronic: The lag is often due to swapping.09:03
* special has 688mb used with nothing open and 26 hours up09:03
wazdtotal 985, used 806, free 17809:03
QantouriscI'll wait for the N9, aks here if the aegis doesn't piss me of so bad, and then decide ?09:03
Stskeepswazd: how much of it 'cached'?09:04
Qantouriscwazd: second line :)09:04
Qantourisc"-/+ buffers/cache:"09:04
wazd-/+ buffers: 790, free 19409:05
TronicSpeedEvil: To open the socket you must first access the filesystem, I guess this is the problem.09:05
Qantouriscwazd: so where the HELL did you get the number 370MB ?09:05
Qantourisccase that's wrong then :p09:05
SpeedEvilThe socket s typically resie on /tmp - which is often in ram09:05
TronicSpeedEvil: Not really related to Harmattan, it is just something that I am suffering of on desktop Linux.09:05
TronicSpeedEvil: To access /tmp, you need to access / first.09:06
SpeedEvilNo you don't09:06
TronicSpeedEvil: Typically it will be cached but especially near OOM it might not be.09:06
wazdQantourisc: Energy Profiler, don't blame me :D09:06
SpeedEvilAccessing a mounted filesystem does not require you to touch the filesystem on which that filesystem is mounted.09:06
TronicSpeedEvil: You need to check the permissions of all the parents, right?09:07
SpeedEvilI've fairly often actually unplugged / - and had a chroot carry on happily running.09:07
xarcassguys, don't forget that there are many apps that are in 'preloaded' state on N950 - they eat a lot of memory09:07
SpeedEvilTronic: No09:07
wazdxarcass: yeah, like feed updates, mail and stuff09:08
SpeedEvilTronic: Once a filesystem is mounted, changing the permissions of the mount point do not change the permissions of the underlying directory09:08
xarcassps xaw|grep prestart09:08
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TronicSpeedEvil: You still need permissions to parents of the mount point.09:09
TronicSpeedEvil: So, in order to access /tmp, you need to verify that you can access /.09:10
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SpeedEvilThe system always has the / node in memory09:10
SpeedEvilinode permissions09:11
TronicEven in OOM situation?09:11
SpeedEvilBecause it has to, in order to be able to use the filesystem09:11
TronicI don't really see why it couldn't read it from the disk when needed, the same way any other node is read.09:12
SpeedEvilBecause IIRC it's stored in the same area that tells it where on what device it should be looking.09:12
TronicAnyway, even if that is the case, wouldn't we still have the problem with /var/tmp and other places that are not directly at fs root?09:12
QantouriscSay another question: what is the point to run a standard linux stack, if aegis is going to lock it down anyway ?09:12
QantouriscIn that case I might aswel get me an iphone or android.09:13
QantouriscThey are just as worthless then09:13
QantouriscOr wait no, worth more, since they have more apps !09:13
SpeedEvilFrom memory, the filesystem path of open filesystems is cached too.09:13
SpeedEvilIt's been a long time since I looked at this though.09:13
SpeedEvilQantourisc: Wait and see.09:14
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emanI don't think open inodes can be dropped. And pwd of processes would be open, so the dcache leading to root would need to be in memory09:14
SpeedEvilAegis could vary from making the device almost unusable for large fractions of the users, to being a minor irritation, to being a positive benefit, depending on how it's configured.09:14
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mecekhertan__, ping09:15
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QantouriscSpeedEvil: ok ... few weeks right ? so howlong exactly before we know ?09:22
QantouriscPS, wasn't this puppy more expensive then an iphone ?09:22
SpeedEvilQantourisc: reportedly within a month09:23
SpeedEvilI vaguely recall someone mentioning Sep 909:23
Qantouriscwill m5 work on m6 ? :)09:23
Qantourisc"ow" ...09:24
Qantouriscso euu ... it won't do what I need/want it to do on release date then09:24
Troniceman: Ok, sounds sensible. Looks like I need to find another hypothesis for the unresponsiveness.09:24
TronicThat thing is a bitch to debug because, well, the system is completely unresponsive when you should be probing it.09:25
emanQantourisc: The N9 is already available for pre-order at one of Australia's largest electronics retailers so that should be an indicator09:26
emanTronic: Linux desktop or N900?09:26
Troniceman: Desktop.09:27
* Qantourisc still doesn't like the smartphone desktop ... i'm almost tempted to use a headset and a latop in a backpack !!!09:27
Qantourisceuuu smathphone-market09:28
Qantouriscor netbook :p09:30
Qantourisctime for me to go09:30
emanAny QML experts here?09:32
spenapeman, real experts are in #qt-qml09:33
hiemanshueman: just ask if someone knows they'll answer09:33
emanspenap, hiemanshu: Okay, thanks09:35
emanI'm just experiencing annoying problems with Rectangle elements not anchoring properly with other elements09:35
emanAnyway, I'll just continue mucking around for a little while. hrmmm.09:35
hiemanshueman: I have used Rectangles and anchor based layouts, what about them?09:36
emanJust coding up an app on N950. Have two rectangles for different sections of a form. The second rectangle overlaps the first with the anchors being ignored09:37
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radiofreeis the height of rectangle 1 + rectangle 2 > height of the screen?09:37
emanRectangle {         id: pickup  }09:38
emanRectangle {         id:destination09:38
eman           pickup.bottom09:38
emanI've set the background on both, and without a anchors.fill, the background won't show.09:38
emanOnly about 1/3 of the screen should be taken up09:38
meceis there a way to browse private cobs repos on the web?09:39
radiofreetry setting some width and height properties for the rectangles09:39
emanradiofree: okay..09:39
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emanhmmm, adding a height and width made for an interesting screen. Seems QML doesn't bound contained elements to the size of the rectangle and they stick out. Sigh.09:42
radiofreebut I assume designation maintained it's anchor property?09:42
meceeman, could you post source and I'll help you with that.09:42
mecejust the rectangles09:42
meceerm the file with the rectangles09:43
mecepaste, not post09:43
xarcasseman: if i understood properly, you need Item::clip property09:43
emanAhh, it's because clip is false for QML elements09:43
emanxarcass: yep, just found it. thanks.09:43
mecejust put clip: true09:43
emanI'm more interested in having the rectangle auto size to contain it's children09:43
mecewidth: childRect.width; height: childRect.height09:44
radiofreedo something in Component.onComplete of the child then09:44
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radiofreeonCompleted even09:44
mece^^ sets size based on content size09:44
emanradiofree: okay, thanks. Will give it a go09:45
emanand thanks mece too09:45
wazdcan anyone point me to the manual bout semi-transparent toolbars in harmattan? (like gallery has for example)?09:53
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xarcasswazd: i believe that this is fairly standard toolbar (inverted though) with opacity set to something between 0 and 109:55
spenapwazd, I'd say you could grep the css files to get the exact opacity values09:56
wazdxarcass: ah, makes sense. I just thought it has some kind of standartized property09:56
xarcasswazd: there are also geometry issues, which i don't know how to solve: page's 'client area' ends at the top edge of toolbar, so it's unclear to me how to 'extend' this area that toolbar would be atop of it10:00
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wazdxarcass: hmm10:00
wazdxarcass: I suppose gallery is closed sourced10:01
ajalkanewazd: no, it's in gitorious10:02
xarcasswazd: unfortunately. i'd like to see how they made some things there also..10:02
ajalkaneoj, the app not examples :P10:02
wazdajalkane: yeah10:02
xarcassajalkane: oops, i've been completely mistaken then10:02
wazdxarcass: maybe they just have some "look alike" instad of proper toolbar10:03
ajalkaneToo bad the apps are mostly closed. Lots of things would be useful to check10:03
RST38hmoo all10:04
RST38hyo wazd10:04
wazdRST38h: heya10:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ([2011-08-22 08:14:04] <SpeedEvil> Qantourisc: Wait and see. <SpeedEvil> Aegis could vary from making the device almost unusable for large fractions of the users, to being a minor irritation, to being a positive benefit, depending on how it's configured.) where from is this? Mere wishful thinking or is there actual indication or rumour from 'inside' about *anything* with aegis is going to change?10:05
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RST38hwazd: how is suffering today?10:08
wazdRST38h: testing MeeCast :)10:08
wazdRST38h: wrong iconset but still :)10:12
RST38hWhy Uruguay though? Haven't we agreed to always show weather in Yakutia at those screenshots? =)10:14
wazdRST38h: the only place I've found with negative temperatures right now :D10:15
wazdI guess it's a polar station10:15
wazdCairo has the most boring forecast ever10:16
RST38hmost likely10:16
RST38hwell, it is in a desert somewhere, isn'tit?10:16
RST38hbut you can always liven things up by showing webcams =)10:16
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RST38hwazd: you know what would be a nice easter egg?10:19
RST38hwazd: when you get a repetitive weather like that, change every next icon slightly, in this case, make sun grow fangs forexample =)10:20
wazdRST38h: eventual BSODs? :P10:20
RST38hnah, BSODs are boring and not that difficult with QML10:20
RST38hBTW, OMWeather *still* screws up the media player widget on Fremantle.10:20
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: It's in principle - I have no indications it will change. But I would not be preordering a n9 till I got clarification.10:20
wazdRST38h: and I hope gismeteo won't sue me for stealing their logo from an iPhone app10:21
wazdRST38h: cause their website logo is an absolute crap10:21
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DocScrutinizerMy info is summarized like this: "Nokia freed all the manpower for HARM(-aegis) already. So there's zero options for them to do anything about it for N9"10:22
RST38hwazd: I doubt they will, all the .RU lawyers are busy raiding whatever businesses remain =)10:23
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Sounds plausible.10:23
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RST38hwazd: is it at all possible to have a set of icon "augmentations" (like those fangs, or eyes) and overlay them on some icons?10:29
RST38hof course, have the same augmentations for multiple different icons to save work10:30
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wazdRST38h: it's surely possible but I'm not sure bout the looks with different sets10:36
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RST38hwazd: depends on how these augmentations are made. if you only limit them to monochrome, with some alpha channel, they should look fine10:37
Arkenoiwazd, no news from nokla?10:37
RST38hwazd: like shadoes or watermarks10:37
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: so my take on it is: if we don't manage to make a "aegiskiller&powerkernel" package as common practice to install on N9 as enabling extras-devel is on fremantle, you can probably forget about it10:39
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wazdArkenoi: nope, pure silence10:41
wazdRST38h: maybe, but that's not gonna be added soon :P10:42
wazdRST38h: have bloody load of things to fix first :)10:42
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djszapircg: did you find the issue after all about the issue with rzr repo ?10:47
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rcgdjszapi: yes.. rzr uploaded desktop-file-utils-0.15-2 to his repo which apparently shadowed the version from
rcgdjszapi: after he removed that package my package and all other packages suffering from this issue started building10:50
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djszapircg: that is why I do not like packrat, it fails to search on the public Nokia repository, and things like this happen.10:52
djszapiright now, packrat duplicates what the obs search field does.10:52
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rcgdjszapi: ic.. i'm not that much familiar with the details of how obs works yet10:55
RST38hdjszapi: easy tofix10:55
RST38hdjszapi: simply ask rm_you to add Nokia's repository to the list10:55
djszapiRST38h: we asked him, and he told us it is not possible.10:55
djszapilong ago.10:55
* RST38h does not see how it is not possible10:56
djszapime neither.10:56
djszapiprobably a very novice parser behind it.10:56
RST38hI have written the parser in PackRat10:57
RST38hNo problem parsing Nokia's repo.10:58
RST38hUnless rm_you broke it really badly, but I doubt it, he is a pretty reasonable guy :)10:58
djszapifix the bug then10:58
djszapiand wiki parsing is very dangerous anyways. I think it is not a good approach.11:00
djszapiI would drop the whole parser, and I would just do a "whitelist", that is.11:00
RST38hwhat wiki?11:03
RST38hwhat are you talking about?11:03
RST38hrepository is not a wiki11:04
djszapiare you sure you wrote the parser ? I am asking it because it heavily parsed the wikipage for the repositories...11:04
djszapiand no, there is no need for parser like that, a whitelist is more than enough since people use the "common" repositories anyways. I find it dangerous, anybody can add anything, even a broken package that I can download, or delete a repository and so forth. It is risky, I would just drop the parser as it is.11:06
RST38hah, rm_you is parsing the wiki pageto get a list of repos at cobs11:07
RST38hbut this does not mean you cannot manually add another repo11:07
djszapiwell, if he "is" parsing, it is not your parser :D11:07
djszapiit is not that you wrote "alone" :D :D11:07
* RST38h sighs11:07
RST38hI mostly care about parsing repo contents and presenting them to the user11:08
RST38hgetting the list of repos has been almost an afterthought11:08
RST38htoo easy to do11:08
robbiethe1stHey guys, quick question - On the RM680/N950, is there any configuration for the touch screen sensitivity etc?11:08
djszapiRST38h: does not matter too much, until the work flow is getting much cleaner. This wikipage parsing is more risky than ever.11:09
djszapiAlso, I am /now/ understading why you had no idea about this public Nokia repository bug.11:10
RST38hWell, at least for me, the PackRat does the job11:11
djszapino, it does not, it does not look for the public Nokia repository which is the most important core. Also I can break it anytime.11:11
RST38hThe keywords were "for me"11:12
djszapiright, you are fine with broken repositories and ignoring the core Nokia one. No more comments then.11:12
djszapiIt is not acceptable for some people (including myself).11:14
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lcukmorning \o11:29
hiemanshuhey lcuk11:29
djszapihiemanshu: irc-chatter does not work with newer software, operation permitted when I try to launch it .11:30
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hiemanshudjszapi: we dont have newer software to test :(11:31
djszapihiemanshu: also, I think the dependency management is broken since my import module did not work11:31
hiemanshudjszapi: there should be meego.extras on it11:31
hiemanshudjszapi: does it have the extras widget lib?11:31
djszapiwell, it cannot import it by me.11:31
hiemanshudjszapi: the QMLComponentExtraWidgetGallery11:32
hiemanshuor something like that11:32
djszapisorry ?11:32
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hiemanshudjszapi: in the apps list, there are widget galleries correct11:32
djszapinot sure what you mean yet.11:33
hiemanshudjszapi: on the phone, newer software, do you have widget galleries?11:33
djszapiI do not know.11:34
hiemanshuwell, cannot really test what the issue with out anything11:34
djszapiwell, you should just write your dependencies into the control file.11:35
djszapiindependently from any image, gadget.11:35
hiemanshuwell, its import it because extras has the InfoBanner which we need11:35
hiemanshuand its installed by default11:36
hiemanshuits a part of qt-components11:36
djszapiso qt-components is your dependency..11:36
hiemanshuand its installed by default11:37
hiemanshudjszapi: do you have a terminal on that thing11:37
djszapihiemanshu: you should really not make a software with guess-works, seriously.11:38
djszapieven if Harmattan has qt, we write that into the dependencies...11:38
hiemanshuif you have a problem with something, patches are welcome11:40
djszapiI am working on a telepathy based IRC client :)11:40
djszapiI do not have time for this, sorry.11:40
hiemanshudjszapi: we have a depends list with everything it uses11:41
robbiethe1stY'know, it seems like with a C(++) app, there ought to be a tool that automatically gets a list of all includes you've used, and finds them in the packages for the target system.11:41
hiemanshuplease see before you speak about anything11:41
djszapihiemanshu: I have qt-components, and widget galary installed. I am afraid, your guess was wrong then, it is something else.11:41
hiemanshudjszapi: exactly, they are all installed11:42
djszapirobbiethe1st: that would really  be funky :)11:42
djszapiJust consider that if you write a cross-platform application, how would you install Mac, Win and other things to check it out ?11:42
robbiethe1stdjszapi: Easy: VMs11:43
djszapihiemanshu: yep, so I do not understand why you asked this. At any rate, the problem is something else.11:43
djszapirobbiethe1st: that is not really the point. I am making Windows packages by coding on Linux (also Mac, deb, rpm and so forth). Basically, I am doing it on one system.11:43
robbiethe1stStill, it'd be handy to have an auto-dependancy-finder, for at least one platform11:44
hiemanshudjszapi: you dont even understand me lol11:45
djszapirobbiethe1st: the problem is that you have gazillion package management systems. It would be a bit more work than you think.11:45
hiemanshudjszapi: can you cd to /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego/extras?11:45
djszapisometimes, different distributions even call things differently.11:45
djszapi08:45 < hiemanshu> djszapi: you dont even understand me lol -> that is true, I do not understand you.11:46
robbiethe1stYes, there'd have to be a version kept up for each package manager. Which, if you could get the distros to maintain it, would be no harder than keeping up all packages as dependancies change11:46
hiemanshudjszapi: can you cd to /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego/extras?11:46
djszapirobbiethe1st: the ifdef, elif would be another factor which makes a bit more difficult.11:46
hiemanshuthat or paste the output of dpkg -L qt-components11:47
djszapirobbiethe1st: also, if you have an outdated package name, that completely messes up everything11:47
hiemanshudjszapi: ^11:47
djszapirobbiethe1st: if you would like to force the dependency for an upper version for some reason.11:48
djszapihiemanshu: no sorry, it is under NDA.11:48
robbiethe1stIsn't that the same problem you have when manually doing the same thing?11:48
hiemanshudjszapi: then just see if /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego/extras exist11:48
hiemanshuif it doesn't, that is your problem11:48
djszapirobbiethe1st: well, I had cmake 2.8.0 installed meanwhile I wanted to require 2.8.4 for some reason11:48
djszapiyou can also have different dependency for different distributions, and it is getting very hard, also I would not like to do it myself for all the distributions really :)11:49
djszapirobbiethe1st: speaking of which, it is not a bad practice to know what packages you are using for your software in general ;-)11:49
djszapihiemanshu: my problem if it does not exist and your package does not run because of this ? :) It is your software ;)11:50
hiemanshudjszapi: its a part of the qt-components package, which is a dependency11:50
djszapino, it is not11:51
hiemanshuand also installed by default11:51
djszapino, it is not11:51
robbiethe1stI'm more thinking in terms of, for example, auto-porting it between distros. So, you choose the right thing for your own distro, and you(or others) can simply run it to find the right dependancies for the new distro11:51
hiemanshudjszapi: I just verified on a phone that I flashed barely 25 mins ago11:51
djszapirobbiethe1st: no, because you go to the package search engine and you are ready11:51
robbiethe1stEspecially useful on things like Maemo11:51
hiemanshudjszapi: please stop speaking shit11:51
djszapihiemanshu: please try to behave. People do not like reading "shit", "fuck" and others.11:52
djszapialso, no it is not available by me, not installed by default.11:52
djszapibut I am happy to see you knowing my gadget and software better than me :D11:52
hiemanshuI hate speaking to fag11:52
* hiemanshu uses /ignore11:52
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djszapirobbiethe1st: also, it is not trivial to find it sometimes since if you have opengl and opengles installed.11:53
djszapithe only thing which can make it nice is a good cmake snippet, to find the proper one for your application. You cannot do it outside of that imho.11:54
djszapiso what you are saying will only work with the awareness of the build system11:54
robbiethe1stwell, yes11:54
djszapiand that is also various from autools/cmake/qmake and so forth.11:54
djszapiso it is not really a small task :)11:54
djszapirobbiethe1st: so technically, it could be done I guess with a lot of work, but easier (at least to me) to go to the relevant distro's package search engine and type a word and get the result accordingly.12:02
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seifmy n950 has a shit loads of pixelproblems12:12
seifit looks like a scratch12:12
seifbut several ontop of eachother12:12
seifall at on location12:12
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djszapiseif: the new images are better. Yes the old image had issues. lcuk also mentioned it few weeks ago.12:16
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artemmTrying to understand Harmattan's UI guidelines regarding spacing in the header12:27
artemmapparently my reading skills aren't good enough12:27
artemmCould somebody help, please?12:27
artemmIn the section "Headers"12:27
artemmit says about "Spacing":12:27
artemm▪20 pixels on top and bottom in portrait12:27
artemm▪16 pixels on top and 14 pixells at bottom in landscape12:27
artemmAre these 20 and 16 distance between the header's border and Text element inside it?12:28
seifdjszapi, so its not a a hardware issue12:34
seifdjszapi, again it looks like a set of pixelproblems all over the screen12:34
seifwell not all over the screen12:34
seifbut all at the same place12:34
seiflines of errors12:35
robbiethe1stReflash, maby?12:35
seifi uninstall and reinstall and they are still there12:35
seifi mean12:36
seifrestart and still there12:36
seifhave not reflashed yet12:36
djszapiseif: it is not a reflash problem, it is simply an old image, that is.12:37
seifdjszapi, where can i get a new image12:37
sandst1seif: we can't12:38
djszapiseif: be patient :)12:38
seifdjszapi, the issue is i did not have that a week ago12:38
seifits just magically appeared12:39
djszapioh ? I am not sure exactly what sort of pixelproblem you mean. Try to re-flash then, if it is something that appeared.12:39
ajalkanesounds like hw problem12:40
Hq`probably a broken display12:40
djszapiseif: if re-flash does not help, beg for another device from N. :p12:40
seifits not boken12:41
seifthe glass is fine12:41
seifit looks like some1 scratch the lcd internally12:41
Hq`it can be broken even if the glass is fine12:41
seifit just look weird12:42
seifwho in nokia should i ask then?12:42
djszapifirst step is re-flash, just for making sure.12:43
seiflet me try12:43
seifit looks like pixels though12:44
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DocScrutinizerseif: could you take a photo?13:15
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SpeedEvilWAs it like that when you got it?14:00
SpeedEvilI wonder what's immediately uder the display14:01
SpeedEvilAs it can't be damaged from the top14:01
SpeedEvilIs that about the position of the bottom of the hinge?14:01
SpeedEvilHmm - not quite.14:03
dm8tbrI know that dropping the device when open and onto the screen is a good way to have a broken device14:35
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Venemo_N950any news on new firmware for da N950?16:02
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mikhasshould have told Venemo that he needs to finish his plate first16:25
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fiferboylibqt4-sql-mysql packages and mysql packages are now available in my repo if anyone needs them :)18:54
DocScrutinizerseif: the photos are really blurred but from what I can tell by those it looks like a manufacturing error in the LCD, either of structuring the elctrodes, or with TFTs18:58
DocScrutinizeror maybe some impurities in the LC18:58
DocScrutinizersometimes mechanical pressure to the screen can cause similar defects, but I can't see how that would happen on N95018:59
DocScrutinizerIt could be impact/force applied via the 2 hinges of the middle support lever, from backside19:01
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: It's not quite in the right place for that19:19
SpeedEvilBut maybe something else inside.19:19
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QantouriscDocScrutinizer: thx for info20:33
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djszapi_hi fiferboy :)20:52
fiferboyHi djszapi_20:55
djszapi_fiferboy: do you know the meego components project from Intel ?20:56
fiferboyI know of them20:58
djszapi_fiferboy: does it address different use cases than qt quick components, or is there some overlap ?20:59
fiferboyI imagine there is overlap20:59
fiferboyI believe they were developed for mostly the same purposes21:00
fiferboyBut there wasn't any communication between the teams21:00
djszapi_mmm, that is unfortunate.21:01
wazdRST38h: AROUND?21:02
fiferboyYes it complicates things21:02
wazdhi all :)21:02
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DocScrutinizerif both qtquick and meego components are somewhat sane design, it might be possible to write a src converter21:11
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fiferboyDocScrutinizer, that has been proposed but I don't know if it is in progress21:12
djszapi_fiferboy: will they cooperate more in the future ?21:12
djszapi_say, merge the two projects.21:12
fiferboydjszapi_, I have heard that could be a possibility in the future21:13
fiferboyi have no idea how likely it would be, though21:14
DocScrutinizerwell, one projec would've to adopt the syntax/obj-model of the other, or both abandon theirs and agree on a merger (duh merger, wasn't there a merger sometime in the past...? called something like meeXXX ;-D )21:15
alteregoThat was more like a hostile take over :P21:15
npmthe dreaded application closing blanks the "applications view" bug strikes again. any solution other than rebooting or swiping back and forth to reset the list of actual applications running21:30
npmand, since it's so obvious, i assume it's a known bug and doesn't need reporting??21:31
fiferboynpm, do you have desktop rotation turned on?21:32
npmum, you mean do some apps work w/ rotation? yes21:32
* npm looks at options again21:33
fiferboyI mean the option to make the home screens rotate to landscape21:36
npmthe nonstandard extension you mean? i didn't see any option to do that21:36
berndhswhere does one file bugs for harmattan ?21:36
berndhswith nokia someplace ?21:36
fiferboynpm, I it through extending the theme css file IIRC21:37
npmi'm trying not to break my device too much yet :-) thus have been staying away from playing around w/ options once i got things working ("if it ain't broke.."21:37
fiferboyIt causes so,21:37
fiferboyme weirdness21:37
npmbut that wouln't be the cause of the app-closer bug since i seem to have it w/o that extension21:38
npmor do you mean that rotating the device while an app is in use causes the app-closer bug21:38
fiferboyseems not related to rotation if you don't have it on21:39
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rzri think i broke messagemanager22:11
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specialhmm, is there going to be skype support built-in?22:47
specialah, good. The current n950 build has no hint of it.22:48
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djszapi_However skype is not stable when I last used.22:49
djszapi_but let us see.22:49
specialI want anything that isn't facebook chat :p22:50
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DocScrutinizerskype wil continue to be a battery killer, no way to help that22:53
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djszapi_DocScrutinizer: I do not mind that if I can make a call abroad more cheaply than with a "normal" phone call. I am loading it all the time from my laptop anyways22:54
djszapi_load -> charge22:55
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rzrspecial: SIP chat is working23:19
dm8tbrare there any real world uses for that?23:26
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ajalkanedm8tbr: well... if you have a geeky friend or a wife who lets you install SIP into her phone, then it can be handy23:32
ajalkaneI installed SIP into my wife's phone. She removed it. Failure.23:33
* Arkenoi failed miserably today trying to open a book in fbreader23:34
ajalkaneWhy? Because the icon it put into the main screen reminded her of something that I won't mention here.23:34
Arkenoifbreader UI sucked even on n900, but it did not go that far to spend 15 minutes in futile efforts to tap "properly" and precisely enough23:36
dm8tbrArkenoi: ouch23:40
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dm8tbrajalkane: I guess I'll stick to my plan to figure out how to manually add an arbitrary XMPP account to the telepathy config :)23:40
ajalkanedm8tbr: yeah well, let us know if you succeed. As XMPP should work with gTalk too, I can get even my wifey to use it :).23:41
djszapi_it is not a big deal with the tp connection manager, however it is already done in newer images. Also, there is some hack flowing around how you can use it.23:42
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