IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-08-21

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GeneralAntillesMine Sweeper MeeGo04:10
* GeneralAntilles cackles.04:10
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hiemanshuis there a way to set the fontSize for the TextArea without having to do any fany stuff, so I can just do font.pixelSize or something like that and set it to an int06:44
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berndhshiemanshu: you mean like this ?06:58
hiemanshuberndhs: but doing that inside TextArea makes no difference in font size even though TextArea has a font element06:59
berndhsmaybe that's a bug07:00
hiemanshuyeah, I cant use font.pixelSize inside TextArea07:01
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vladesthi all09:56
vladestgot error message at runtime: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied" "Rejected send message, 3 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.1574" (uid=29999 pid=4957 comm="/opt/carvcr/bin/CarVCR ") interface="" member="req_tklock_mode_change" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="" (uid=0 pid=532 comm="/sbin/mce --force-syslog "))"09:58
vladestwhat capability I have to set in .aegis to avoid this?09:58
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dm8tbrrobbiethe1st: go into settings, then security... let me check10:00
dm8tbryes, then developer mode10:01
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dm8tbrturn it on, lett it churn. then reboot10:01
dm8tbrtshatshing, device is now more friendly10:01
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robbiethe1stHow do I reboot?10:01
dm8tbrhold down power for 8s or so10:02
dm8tbrthen wait a minute or two10:02
dm8tbras there is no visible sign that it's still shutting down10:02
robbiethe1stYea, I can see that10:02
dm8tbrthen press power for 1-2s it should vibrate and start booting. if it didn't then it's still shutting down10:03
djszapi_yes, there is a sign, and no need for 1-2s, one click is enough10:03
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robbiethe1stYea, got that, thanks. It's booted again10:04
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dm8tbrdjszapi_: how do you see that it's done shutting down (without pressing the power button?10:04
robbiethe1stKeep pressing power key for 2s every 10s until it boots?10:04
robbiethe1stOk, so now we've got dev tools installed. Now what? What command can I use to get a root shell, or even mess with apt?10:05
djszapi_use ssh with SDK mode10:06
djszapi_and yes, one click is enough, 2s is some artificial guess..10:06
dm8tbrdjszapi_: so there is no way to see it actually is done shutting down if you just have the device in front of you?10:07
djszapi_yes, there is a sign after turning off, and then you wait few seconds, not minutes as you said.10:08
djszapi_and then one click is enough to boot.10:08
dm8tbrdjszapi_: so WHAT is the sign? enlighten me please...10:08
djszapi_robbiethe1st: you might want to use the develsu and the developer user name with the given password.10:08
djszapi_dm8tbr: when you turn the device off, there is a nokia sign...and then you wait few seconds, please do not make it more dramatic than it in fact is10:09
djszapi_robbiethe1st: you wanna have root for some reason...10:10
dm8tbrdjszapi_: it does not align with my experience so far, that's why I'm asking. I'm eager to understand the process better. As you might imagine that might help me help others like robbiethe1st in the future.10:10
djszapi_vladest: could you please take a look at the syslog, maybe it complains about some aegis.10:10
robbiethe1stI mean, running 'develsu' from xterm just gives 'command not found'10:10
djszapi_dm8tbr: let me not repeat myself more times.10:11
djszapi_robbiethe1st: devel-su or something like that, I am pretty sure you can figure it out.10:11
dm8tbrrobbiethe1st: i think it's devel-su10:11
robbiethe1stStill nothing. Odd10:11
djszapi_what do you mean by "Nothing" ?10:12
djszapi_devel<TAB>, maybe you need to install packages first from the settings, I am not sure10:13
dm8tbrrobbiethe1st: btw: it's important to keep in mind that most of the time root has less power than the user. the important bits in may cases come from proper aegis incantations.10:13
robbiethe1stWell, first off, I want to get to a state where I can run apt-get on device from the terminal10:14
robbiethe1stThat's my first goal10:14
djszapi_busybox-devel-su distributes devel-su10:15
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vladestdjszapi_: 10x, will check10:16
djszapi_vladest: if there is no complain about aegis there, it is not your package's security issue10:17
dm8tbrrobbiethe1st: but developer mode is properly on, right? well it installed terminal so it should be...10:17
robbiethe1stYes. And devel-sh is also installed10:17
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djszapi_you mean develsh10:17
robbiethe1stWhat's the full path to the executable?10:17
djszapi_and that is a different package, not busybox.10:18
djszapi_robbiethe1st: does not matter, I guess you did not pull /usr/bin, /bin, /sbin and others from the path :)10:18
robbiethe1stAh, figured it out10:20
QantouriscCan N9/N950 do: Imap,icaldav,ssh,(maybe irssi),rdp,vnc,speaker-call,bluetooth-hand-free-cal ?10:21
QantouriscAlso does anyone know how to sync contacts ?10:21
robbiethe1stLooks like it was just the screen for some reason not accepting my taps on the 'tab' button10:21
djszapi_robbiethe1st: You can use ctrl-i10:22
djszapi_Qantourisc: sync contacts in what sense, bluetooth, from file or ?10:23
Qantouriscdjszapi_: ANY :) (using standard formats)10:23
djszapi_Qantourisc: right, for files, you need a hack I wrote on the wikipage. For bluetooth, it is not any different like the previous n90010:24
* Qantourisc doesn't own any smarhpone10:24
djszapi_Qantourisc: then use my hack if you have the contact files exported.10:24
QantouriscSo no standard means to pull in or out contacts ?10:24
djszapi_Qantourisc: well, you do not have smart phone to sync up with, so the only situation I can think of is from files.10:25
Qantouriscdjszapi_: ow it uses a bunch of vcards ...10:25
hiemanshuQantourisc: see the link I pasted10:25
Qantouriscdjszapi_: ssh access is possible right ?10:25
djszapi_sorry, but what do you mean ? There is one vcardconverter command in the loop.10:26
Qantourischiemanshu: that link indicates it has :)10:26
djszapi_Qantourisc: yes, of course, just follow my instructions.10:26
djszapi_and be happy =)10:26
Qantouriscdjszapi_: I don't have any smartphone ...10:26
djszapi_we are discussing a smart phone on this channel, so you might want to go to different channel.10:27
Qantourisccorrect :)10:27
QantouriscLet me rephrase the question10:27
hiemanshuQantourisc: you can also copy the contacts using your sim10:27
Qantourisc"What format does harmattan use ?"10:27
hiemanshuif you sim has a memory, swap, copy, swap, copy10:27
djszapi_Qantourisc: see my instructions. Mostly the last step10:28
Qantourisc"No manual entry for vcardconverter" ... i'm sorry but the instruction do not tell me what format they are using as a result10:28
RST38hMoo, all10:29
djszapi_they are using database, but I am not sure you should focus on that10:29
Qantouriscdjszapi_: a ok, so i can only "pull in" vcards then10:29
djszapi_that is the most reasonable way, yes.10:30
djszapi_of course, you can write your converter as well, if it is really worth it for you.10:30
Qantouriscok, so i best store my "central" contacts in vcard, and convert/import then in the apps and phone10:30
djszapi_yes, of course.10:30
Qantourisci'm going to assume vnc and ssh clients are available ?10:31
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djszapi_vnc for copying files ? :D10:32
Qantouriscno :)10:32
Qantouriscthat would be scp in my case i think :)10:32
* Qantourisc uses a lot of cli :p10:32
djszapi_yeah, or mass storage mode.10:32
djszapi_actually I would recommend the mass storage mode10:32
Qantouriscdjszapi_: y ?10:33
robbiethe1stFaster, by far10:33
djszapi_not about the faster thing10:33
djszapi_tracker does not index the files copied over ssh10:33
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: i'll live waiting for it to sync a few kb files :)10:33
Qantouriscdjszapi_: the thing has "tracker" ?10:33
djszapi_Harmattan uses tracker, yes.10:34
robbiethe1stYes. Unlike a /sane/ device that would allow you to, you know, select media files by filename, both the N900 and Harmattan use 'tracker' which scans the filesystem for new files every time you disconnect it from usb.10:34
djszapi_but for your situation, scp will also work. I just like using mass storage mode for copying files. I try to use ssh only for hacks on the phone, not for copying.10:34
robbiethe1stQuite a pain, really10:34
Qantouriscdjszapi_: i could aswel instruct the phone to rescan the files over ssh :)10:35
djszapi_Qantourisc: sorry ?10:35
robbiethe1stRun 'tracker -- rescan' (essentially) via ssh, djszapi.10:36
Qantouriscwell after i sync the files i could just tell tracker to update using ssh aswel10:36
QantouriscPs. Where can I find a list of available apps ? (So I can check if the apps i seek are avail)10:37
djszapi_tracker does not index the files copied over ssh, period.10:37
Qantouriscdjszapi_: i understood that10:37
vladestdjszapi_: well, there is nothing about my app in syslog but I found that this is screensaver inhibition lack of credentials10:37
Qantouriscdjszapi_: but after you are doing copying i can launch "tracker -- rescan" if i care10:37
djszapi_Qantourisc: using search ?10:37
Qantouriscdjszapi_: on the phone ?10:37
vladestso, need to find what credentials are10:37
Qantouriscdjszapi_: i don't have a phone yet, i'm seeking an acceptable phone10:38
djszapi_about -- rescan, no sorry, I will not do it all the time when I copy something, that is insane to me if I can just use mass storage mode10:38
robbiethe1stQantourisc: I know it'd work on the Fremantle tracker, but I haven't had enough time to mess with the Harmattan one10:38
djszapi_Qantourisc: use qemu10:38
Qantouriscdjszapi_: oo you can run it in qemu ? ... nice /me goes look10:38
djszapi_vladest: if it is a credential issue, you must find it in the syslog.10:38
djszapi_if it is not there, it is not credential issue10:39
djszapi_robbiethe1st: does not matter, we do not need hacks, if there is a sensible solution10:39
vladestdjszapi_: ok, what this else can be?10:39
vladestdjszapi_: sorry, i'm novice in maemo/meego, so can ask stupid questions :)10:40
dm8tbrok, the 'few seconds' after the nokia logo disappears on shutdown seem to be more like 10. but I'll need to time that with a stop watch to be sure.10:40
djszapi_vladest: grep aegis /var/log/syslog10:40
* Qantourisc wonders if anyone has a link to the qemu guide10:40
djszapi_Qantourisc: check the SDK10:40
robbiethe1stdjszapi: Uh, if you want to use ssh to transfer your files, then it *is* a sensible solution10:40
djszapi_if it is not documented, I will raise the issue internally.10:40
djszapi_robbiethe1st: it is insane to use ssh for tracking files, tracker is not implemented that way10:41
vladestdjszapi_: nothing10:41
djszapi_use the proper recommended way, aka. mass storage, period.10:41
djszapi_one command, works, less error-prone, be happy.10:42
Qantouriscdjszapi_: did i mention i might want to sync when my files are miles away ? :)10:42
djszapi_sorry ?10:42
QantouriscIt might not always be possible to connect a usb cable ....10:42
djszapi_vladest: mmm, it might be not credential related, or too old image (where aegis does not report it properly). I doubt the second option, but feel free to prong me wrong10:43
vladestdjszapi_: you mean firmware image?10:43
djszapi_Qantourisc: Can you tell me any use case ?10:43
djszapi_vladest: yes, week 22 is old enough10:44
Qantouriscdjszapi_: yes: i logged in remote, added a new concact, and i want i on me phone10:44
djszapi_not sure what you mean by "remote".10:44
Qantouriscthe "hard" way would be to copy the file the computer i'm working on10:44
Qantouriscthen connect the phone, and then transfer10:44
vladestdjszapi_: its n950 with firmaware, provided by nokia. no updates since then. is there any fresh updates?10:44
Qantouriscdjszapi_: ssh/vnc/rdp/...10:44
djszapi_Qantourisc: please write step by step reproducing guide.10:45
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Qantouriscdjszapi_: ssh -X mycomputer.dyn.domain; <insert-vcard-manager-app-here>; <create new contact>;10:45
vladestdjszapi_: 1.2011.22-6_PR_RM68010:46
vladestdjszapi_: 22 means week 22 which is outdated?10:46
Qantouriscalso the tracker shoul dam just use inotify or equivalent :)10:46
djszapi_vladest: yep, I know, but it does not change the fact.10:46
djszapi_Qantourisc: I do not understand your use case.10:47
Qantouriscdjszapi_: that's a differnt issue :p10:47
djszapi_the mobile phone is not on ethernet, so it is somewhere close to you, thus you can just use a cable fine10:47
robbiethe1stdjszapi: But the PC isn't.10:47
vladestdjszapi_: where i can get fresh fw?10:47
djszapi_Qantourisc: it would be utterly odd, if you develop an application on your PC without the phone available...10:47
robbiethe1stRemember, you can always use scp to 'pull' files from the remote 'server'/desktop10:48
djszapi_and I do consider it very *very* corner case10:48
djszapi_and the recommendation is for normal use cases (99.999%).10:48
djszapi_vladest: you cannot until N. provides it.10:48
Qantouriscdjszapi_: i'm not developing a application ...10:48
vladestdjszapi_: ok, thanks. then just have to wait10:49
djszapi_robbiethe1st: no, that is notr true, you cannot. Since your phone is not on the ethernet10:49
djszapi_robbiethe1st: it is on wifi, close to somewhere to you, use cable ?10:49
robbiethe1stdjszapi: So, you go on vacation with your phone. You have free wifi in the hotel. Now, you can remote back to your PC many many miles away, grab files.10:49
djszapi_Qantourisc: the point is that you need the phone, it is a weird and *very* strange workflow to me if it is far away from you.10:50
robbiethe1stI did that once, but with my laptop instead of a phone.10:50
djszapi_once :D :D :D10:50
Qantouriscdjszapi_: not the phone, the pc ! :)10:50
djszapi_yeah, sure there are corner cases....10:50
djszapi_but we write the recommendation for *normal* use cases.10:50
djszapi_for corner case, like that, you can use -- rescan, indeed.10:50
robbiethe1stAnd *that's* what he wanted to know10:51
Qantouriscnot sure why it doesn't use inotify actaully10:51
djszapi_with all its heavy disadvantages, like you forget something and you need to debug it for hours/days.10:51
Qantourisc"forget something" ?10:51
djszapi_so yes, please try to avoid it as much as possible.10:51
robbiethe1stOk, guys, new question: I've gotten logged in as developer via ssh, but I still can't run apt-get; no priviledges. What now?10:51
djszapi_indeed, you forget to run the command for each single file when you make a copy.10:51
djszapi_robbiethe1st: developer != root.10:51
Qantouriscdjszapi_: i'd be a prescripted bash file "copy new vcards from pc"10:52
robbiethe1stEvidently, yes.10:52
djszapi_Qantourisc: that is very tedious10:52
Qantouriscdjszapi_: so is syncing by hand :p10:52
robbiethe1stI can run devel-su/develsh, but it asks for a password.10:52
djszapi_to take care about that what you copy, and just run it for vcards10:52
djszapi_Qantourisc: I am not getting your point btw, if you have cable availability, use that (99%), if not use rescan.10:53
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robbiethe1stOh, wait. develsh worked, devel-su doesn't.10:53
Qantouriscdjszapi_: well mail, and calanders have good sync solutions: imap and icaldav ... but contacts ;...10:53
djszapi_they have of course, bluetooth is the most working way.10:53
Qantourisc... suppose i could by a bluetooth module ... still it's not over the internet ....10:53
djszapi_but you have a really special corner case, when you do not have 1) vcf files 2) Bluetooth 3) You do not have cable connection, come on ... it is not a normal case by any mean =)10:54
Qantouriscit's "normal" for me :)10:54
Qantourisclukily contacts are not updated that often10:54
djszapi_yes, but you are not normal with these conditions :)10:54
Qantouriscor even this solution would be unacceptable10:54
djszapi_contacts are not updated that often ? Haha, building contacts day by day for the winner :)10:55
Qantouriscthe sdk installer is taking a while ... a long while ...10:55
robbiethe1stSo... I don't see the issue. Qantourisc has a non-standard requirement, and is willing to come up with a 'custom' script/command-set to make it work. Isn't that the whole reason for having a mostly-unlocked Linux-based device?10:55
Qantouriscandroid: non-standard stack + security holes, and a lot of other issues as i recall10:56
Qantourisciphone: well it's apple only10:56
Qantouriscwindows ... who wants a phone you need to reboot each week ?10:56
Qantouriscso what's left is this10:56
djszapi_robbiethe1st: I think you misunderstood the conversation since there is no issue, read my post: 13:53 < djszapi_> Qantourisc: I am not getting your point btw, if you have cable availability, use that (99%), if not use rescan.10:56
Qantouriscor blakcberry/symbian and otehrs10:56
robbiethe1stWhat I don't get is the whole arguement10:57
robbiethe1stIt seems like the solution's been found.10:57
djszapi_there is no arguement after that :)10:57
robbiethe1stOk, great.10:57
djszapi_you are still asking this, not sure why :D10:57
* Qantourisc is now trying to install the sdk ...10:57
djszapi_Qantourisc: android security is a bit weak10:57
djszapi_and their security documentation is /very/ sloppy.10:57
Qantouriscthat's why I ditched it mainly ...10:58
djszapi_they are replicating aegis nowadays10:58
djszapi_from what I can say..10:58
Qantourisc"aegis" ?10:58
djszapi_harmattan security fw10:58
robbiethe1stAegis is the /painful/ security on Harmattan. It means signed binaries, for better or worse. Better, in that unauthorized stuff can't run, worse in that your own modified tools can't run unless you either disable it or sign them.10:59
Stskeepsfuck aegis(TM)10:59
* Stskeeps goes make coffee10:59
Qantouriscyou need a step between turning it off and on11:00
djszapi_robbiethe1st: no, it is not...Moreover we implemented the same for meego 1 year ago.l11:00
robbiethe1stCompared to Fremantle, where you could run anything, anywhere. 'sudo gainroot' do whatever the hell you damn well want.11:00
Qantourisc"allow this unkown bin with md5sum X"11:00
robbiethe1stStskeeps knows what he's talking about; all I can say is I think it'll make it hard to implement replacement kernels.11:01
djszapi_robbiethe1st: Stskeeps cannot actually behave.11:01
Qantouriscreminds me ... iptables ?11:01
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dm8tbrthe n900 was never meant as an mainstream operator sales device, was it? the n9 is and thus tries to comply with the rules operators set. aegis is an implementation of those rules11:01
robbiethe1stDoesn't mean I have to like, or appreciate it.11:02
dm8tbrnevertheless, it would be nice if it would be easier to disable it all together though11:02
djszapi_and he has no understaind about the security, I can dare to say that. Also, it is not professional to say "fuck aegis" which is very hurty for the people who spent years, but at least a lot of time (including myself)11:02
Qantouriscbut what is it about the singed bins ?11:02
Qantourisci need signed bins ?11:02
robbiethe1stI, for one, hate the thought that I don't have /full control/ over something I own, and I don't want the operators having any control. They should be sending and recieving my packets, and that's about it. Locked modem, alright. anything else? isn't going to make me happy.11:03
robbiethe1stBut then again... that's just my opinion.11:03
Qantouriscwait i'm confused ... the phone is locked ?11:03
dm8tbr - to people remotely familiar with aegis already the TOC should look very familiar11:04
robbiethe1stQantourisc: N9/N950 is, sort of11:04
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: can you be more specific ?11:04
robbiethe1stSee: signed binaries. Google it11:05
robbiethe1stIt's locked, but at least for now, we have the keys.11:05
dm8tbrQantourisc: nobody can, as the final state of aegis on production firmware is yet unknown. nokia can turn the screw both ways11:05
Qantouriscunacceptable ...11:05
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Qantouriscquess i'll have to wait another year and take another look at the market then ...11:06
robbiethe1stQantourisc: Get a N90011:06
dm8tbrQantourisc: I'd recommend to hold off your judgement.11:06
Qantouriscand continue to use a cellphone to call ... and nothing more11:06
dm8tbralso my N950 boots MeeGoCE and is already quite usable also there11:06
robbiethe1stYou can always use the good, old, N900. which, while slower, will do what you want.11:06
robbiethe1stIt's also available now. Whereas the N9 doesn't appear to be.11:07
Qantouriscdm8tbr: until i gain what information ?11:07
robbiethe1stOoh, 'text2screen' is available. That'll make my life one heck of a lot easier.11:07
dm8tbrQantourisc: until it is understood if nokia just leaves the device de-facto wide open once it goes on sale11:08
Qantourisco the thing isn't out yet ?11:09
dm8tbrQantourisc: as is there are several ways to disable most of aegis11:09
dm8tbrQantourisc: there are only developer devices: n95011:09
robbiethe1stNo, N9 isn't out yet. N950 is, but you'll probably never get one due to them being developer-only11:09
dm8tbrthe real product which is soon to be on sale is due out in a few weeks11:09
robbiethe1st(and have this very shiny "developer device, not for sale" etched into the back ;)11:10
Qantourisc"nice" ... Well I don't care about protection ... if I can work around it...11:10
Qantouriscthis also means replacing kernel, installation and what not11:10
dm8tbrexactly. as long as nokia doesn't interfere with the subset of users that wants to tinker, everything will be actually quite dandy11:10
Qantouriscif they interfear: "hot patato"11:11
robbiethe1stQantourisc: Do remember that the N9 doesn't have a hardware keyboard, btw.11:11
dm8tbron the n950 you can boot your own kernel, the SoC goes into open mode11:11
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: i know ...11:11
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: tacky for debugging ;)11:11
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: BUT it has a screen !11:11
dm8tbrthe screen is much better11:12
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: i have a nas ... that doesn't even has a screen ... I wouldn't start thinkering with that... because i have no screen on that one :)11:12
robbiethe1stOh, also, the N9 has a OLED(Pentile?) screen vs a LCD one11:12
Qantouriscdebugging without info is a pain ;p11:12
robbiethe1stQantourisc: No serial console ;)?11:12
Qantouriscmeanwhile ... the sdk installer is STILLL running !!!11:12
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: well yes ... if you can figure out the pins11:12
* dm8tbr just booted MeeGo for the first time on STE Snowball - It has no screen, just a serial console :D11:13
Qantouriscand get a 5 to 12v serial converter11:13
djszapi_14:05 < dm8tbr> Qantourisc: nobody can, as the final state of aegis on production firmware is yet unknown. nokia can turn the screw both ways -> Highly untrue11:13
faenilcan anybody help me optimize my opengl 3d game under construction?11:13
dm8tbrdjszapi_: please substantiate your statement then11:13
djszapi_14:06 < Qantourisc> quess i'll have to wait another year and take another look at the market then ... -> It is always like that, independently from this gadget. You might be very novice in this area.11:13
Qantouriscfaenil: isn't that more like an #opengl or alike question ?11:13
djszapi_dm8tbr: you are saying me I should talk to you about NDA things ?11:13
Qantouriscdjszapi_: so what is the truth on the aegis ?11:14
djszapi_Qantourisc: no, he can ask it here since it is opengles specific to this phone11:14
dm8tbrdjszapi_: well if you can't back up your statement, then also adding 'that's not hoow it's going to be but I'm not allowed to talk about it' is just fine11:14
QantouriscIs it normal the sdk installer is still running ?11:14
djszapi_Actually, I would say both channels without redirection of someone.11:14
Qantouriscdjszapi_: ow11:14
faenilbut it seems like you can't talk on #OpenGL11:14
robbiethe1stQantourisc: Um, TTL to rs232 anyway; 5V max rs232 works fine in most cases on most serial devces.11:15
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: well not risking it :)11:15
djszapi_14:09 < dm8tbr> Qantourisc: as is there are several ways to disable most of aegis -> untrue, no there are no ways11:15
dm8tbrdjszapi_: which would make my statement still true as it is publicly unknown. the fact that you know it and bound by NDA doesn't change that.11:15
dm8tbrdjszapi_: see what Javispedro found11:15
Qantouriscdjszapi_: so i can't run custom scripts and bins ?11:15
robbiethe1stQantourisc: Not by default, no.11:16
dm8tbrdjszapi_: you can also boot your own kernel and go open mode. the implications of this are yet unknown though11:16
djszapi_14:14 < dm8tbr> djszapi_: well if you can't back up your statement, then also adding 'that's not hoow it's going to be but I'm not allowed to talk about it' is just fine -> that is what I meant but "untrue". Please stop speculating.11:16
Qantouriscrobbiethe1st: now i'm confused ... djszapi_ just said you can't disable ... ?!?11:16
djszapi_Qantourisc: yes you can, but not recommended11:16
dm8tbrdjszapi_: I just stated my state of knowledge.11:16
djszapi_14:15 < Qantourisc> djszapi_: so i can't run custom scripts and bins ? -> for this11:16
djszapi_14:16 < dm8tbr> djszapi_: you can also boot your own kernel and go open mode. the implications of this are yet unknown though -> untrue, again11:17
Qantouriscdjszapi_: afraid i fuck up my own phone ?11:17
djszapi_*please* stop speculating insanity.11:17
djszapi_I have posted more times the one liner, which puts you into open mode.11:17
dm8tbrdjszapi_: what about it is untrue11:18
robbiethe1stQantourisc: I think it depends on the device. With the N950, which we have in our hands, we can run stuff through some developer commands, including ones to disable aegis11:18
djszapi_14:16 < Qantourisc> robbiethe1st: now i'm confused ... djszapi_ just said you can't disable ... ?!? -> again untrue, you can but is a bit harder and unworthy hack.11:18
robbiethe1stOn the N9... I cannot say. If those developer commands still exist, that's an easy way. If not...11:18
dm8tbrdjszapi_: I would very much appreciate if you would back up your statements with something11:18
djszapi_14:18 < robbiethe1st> Qantourisc: I think it depends on the device. With the N950, which we have in our hands, we can run stuff through some developer commands, including ones to disable aegis -> again untrue, there is no command to disable aegis on your n950...11:18
djszapi_guys, please please stop speculating, just ask ...11:18
robbiethe1stWe can run commands, can't we?11:19
robbiethe1stcustom binaries and such, else we can't develop anything11:19
djszapi_no you cannot turn off aegis by running a command.11:19
dm8tbrdjszapi_: you seem to be unable to answer more than 'yes' or 'no' that makes it really hard to ask you things11:19
djszapi_yes, you *of course* can, by packaging as the recommended way11:20
Qantourisci'm "ok" with singing a few bins on the phone ... if i can11:20
djszapi_dm8tbr: very hard to talk with you seriously, mostly because you ignore my sentences, and you then say, I did not tell you.11:20
djszapi_14:17 < djszapi_> I have posted more times the one liner, which puts you into open mode.11:20
djszapi_14:18 < dm8tbr> djszapi_: what about it is untrue11:20
djszapi_I have just told you before you asked...11:20
djszapi_please do not ignore what I write.11:21
robbiethe1stlast post11:21
robbiethe1stis what I mean11:21
kimjuwell, there is this gross hack, a kernel module that pokes into kernel space and disables aegis enforcement, you can load that with a developer-mode command.. so you can disable it with a command. :)11:21
* Qantourisc stops the SDK installed ... it seems to be stuck11:21
dm8tbrdjszapi_: yes, I know the code snippet for open mode11:21
djszapi_robbiethe1st: that is a very dirty and unneeded hack in fact.11:22
robbiethe1stBut it *does* work, does it not?11:22
djszapi_robbiethe1st: it can be much easier done, also do not forget the fact, it does not really work in the sales devices.11:22
djszapi_robbiethe1st: yeah, sure there are gazillion ways of making dirtyness, I do not doubt, but there are easier ways. Also, please read my sales device story.11:23
robbiethe1stHm, so there'll be no developer mode on the sales device?11:23
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djszapi_kimju: you cannot load kernel module, no, that is falsy.11:23
djszapi_lack of understanding of aegis-validator, still.11:24
djszapi_robbiethe1st: it is not about the developer mode, it is just a very risky and error prone way of doing things, and when I mean error-prone, I really mean very very error-prone. How about just do the recommendation aka. packaging ? I fail to see why people try to overforce the rules and recommendations and then complain. Also, of course no guarantee for javispedro's way.11:26
robbiethe1stI'm not talking about distributing a package, I'm talking about developing one yourself/running custom stuff. Sort of hard to package/install for every little change you make11:28
kimjudjszapi_, this looks very much like loading a module to me:
djszapi_yes, package it. I fail to see why it is hard11:28
djszapi_kimju: except that when we tried to reproduce it on N9, it did not work11:29
djszapi_kimju: please try to understand that it is an old image with all its drawbacks.11:30
kimjuthat might be, but currently it *is* possible with the version we have. and of course that requires the develsh with enough of tokens.11:32
kimjuif there won't be develsh in N9 or it doesn't have module loading capability, then that won't work.11:33
djszapi_kimju: right, so if say Qt decides, this thing is not working in the future, you keep using it ?11:33
djszapi_That is really a very rarely strange decision.11:34
djszapi_I fail to see why develsh should have that credential, that is obviously a bug to me.11:34
w00t_is there a good reason for it not working other than "because I say so"?11:34
djszapi_very easy to fix bug, actually.11:35
djszapi_about the restok.conf modification, that is also insane, since that is properly signed apart from open mode...11:36
djszapi_kimju: but you can read the channel log back, we overdiscussed it couple of times here with javispedro11:38
djszapi_and actually, if you read the architecture documentation and my sayings here, it is clearly an implementation bug since it is against the architecture design, so I am not sure why it was not obvious that time :)11:41
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djszapi_apart from that you cannot load modules like that, the sysfs entry is even protected with tcb, so it is really no go in every regard.11:42
djszapi_but I am just repeating myself that I told so many times to javispedro..11:43
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djszapi_kimju: eliminating develsh does not make any sense btw. That is a really crucial package for development purposes.11:49
wazdhi all11:49
kimjuremoving it would be inconvient, yes. but that doesn't prevent it from being removed, especially if there will be operator locked variants.. but we don't know, and fear the worst..11:51
djszapi_kimju: the phone which has developer capability will have it.11:52
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Elessarhm.. why aegis may reject deb-packages?11:55
djszapi_robbiethe1st: back to Stskeeps, from what I see from him here is 1) the lack of understanding security, but very harsh words still for that. (He does not even know anything about MeeGo security we did) 2) Hyping meego on the harmattan channel..11:55
djszapi_Elessar: exact error message ?11:55
Elessar# dpkg -i app_0.2.80-harmattan-0_armel.deb11:56
ElessarAegis rejecting app_0.2.80-harmattan-0_armel.deb: usr/lib/ not installed by the package11:56
Elessaraegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected11:56
robbiethe1stI dunno; all I hope is he can get around some of it. It may be hard to get my app running(which requires hijacking the boot process early on, booting a small system in a ramdisk) if he can't port some of his N900 stuff11:57
djszapi_robbiethe1st: again, even if he ports anything to N950 (which is not harmattan, so off-topic), it has a security very very similar to aegis.11:58
robbiethe1stN950 isn't Harmattan? Uh... whatr?11:58
djszapi_Harmattan is a software on it, it is not the N950, anybody can port anything to it which is not Harmattan anymore.11:59
robbiethe1stAren't you picking at threads here? I mean... OS on N950 = Harmattan = OS on N9, correct?11:59
djszapi_Elessar: do you have this package online or could you send it to me for a try ?12:00
djszapi_robbiethe1st: nope, if you port meego to this gadget, it is not harmattan, no.12:00
djszapi_for instance meego, which is completely off-topic here.12:00
robbiethe1stUm... who said *anything* about meego?12:00
djszapi_Stskeeps keeps hyping it here.12:00
Elessardjszapi_: can you tell me your email or should I send it to some file-hosting server?12:01
robbiethe1stWhat I'm talking about is things like 'get-boot-state', and his shell-script 'bootmenu'12:01
djszapi_robbiethe1st: right, so you hijacked my original post.12:01
djszapi_Elessar: is it not available on c-obs ?12:02
ElessarI've built it manually by Madde12:02
ElessarI'm trying to make cmake, madde and QtCreator friends %)12:02
djszapi_cmake \o/12:04
djszapi_Elessar: please post the whole error message, you truncated the most important part.12:05
Elessardjszapi_:  get it:
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djszapi_Elessar: sorry, but I do not see any dpkg -i or apt-get install here.12:08
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Elessardjszapi_: this is script, called by QtCreator on deploy state:
djszapi_Elessar: werll, you said dpkg -i, but at any rate, try to get rid of qtcreator first12:10
ElessarI've also tried to run dpkg -i manually on device by root user, and there was no hope, first log message was from that try12:11
Elessarit's inetersting, that I've built some little application already with cmake+Madde+QtCreator, and it've installed fine12:12
djszapi_again, please send the most important part of the dpkg -i command12:13
djszapi_from prompt to prompt12:13
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Elessarthat's all12:16
Elessarif you mean exactly "dpkg -i"12:16
guruzhow can i make the virtual keyboard close on harmattan when the user clicks out of it?12:17
djszapi_guruz: it does not work if you click out of it (out of an input field) ?12:19
guruzdjszapi_: hm, not here. Which QML (component) am I supposed to use for that to work?12:22
djszapi_Elessar: mmm, that is not too talkative, if you need a workaround, try out "--force-all", if proper solution, you might need to take a look at syslog or find a verbose output.12:22
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djszapi_guruz: ohhh, it is your own application...Mmm, I used meegotouch (C++) for UiS and it is the default behaviour there. Not sure about QML things, maybe qml components ? I think someone needs to have to answer who did similar.12:23
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guruzdjszapi_: k, thx :)12:27
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Elessardjszapi_: there is no information at syslog and --force-all doesn't help12:28
djszapi_Elessar: Could you please publish one of these packages ?12:29
djszapi_guruz: maybe, mikhas can help more if he is available. He is one of the VK guys.12:31
djszapi_guruz: or if the facebook application code is open, you can take a look at that, how they do.12:32
djszapi_some english site, please ? :p12:34
djszapi_Elessar: is there any reason why you do not use the newest debian format ?12:35
Elessarerm, no reason12:36
Arkenoidefault podcast player and twitter clients suck on harmattan. sepecially twitter, i wonder why did they give up the contacts plugin idea and switched to ugly standalone app12:37
Elessar$ ~/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad ~/QtSDK/Madde/madbin/aegis-manifest12:39
Elessaraegis-manifest: Could not find QtDeclarative loader to match QML content.12:39
Elessarinteresting %) may be this is a reason?12:39
* Arkenoi tried playing video podcasts with default player, no sound at all12:41
djszapi_Elessar: is this package done by you or by QtCreator ?12:42
wazdArkenoi: heard about any plans for today?12:42
Arkenoiwazd: nope, are there any?12:42
wazdArkenoi: well, it was supposed to be N9 event, but i guess it was cancelled or something, cause I have no info on it12:43
djszapi_Elessar: try to build it yourself first, really. QtCreator has been proven a couple of times, it indeed does weird things.12:43
Sputdjszapi_: do you have an idea why creator doesn't offer the deploy/debug-on-device and similar options for cmake project, only for qmake projects? these tasks should be completely independent from the build system in use12:44
Elessarit was copied and modified from fremantile's rules12:44
Arkenoiwazd: worldwide?12:44
Elessarand them were generated a year ago, I don't remember by which tool12:44
djszapi_they as in ?12:45
djszapi_package or the rules file ?12:45
wazdArkenoi: nope, local at Tverskaya Store12:45
djszapi_Sput: well, we have been trying to tell this to QtCreator developers, but they do not seem to care12:45
djszapi_Sput: which is not nice of them.12:46
Arkenoii doubt they just forgot to invite us so i guess it was cancelled or something12:46
Sputdjszapi_: yeah, it's completely stupid... just let me run "mad cmake" instead of qmake and we could all be happy12:46
SputI mean, they even *know* that qmake is not even an option for larger projects that are not Qt itself12:47
djszapi_Sput: to be honest, I do not like the QtCreator project, they do not even wanna share code with others and so forth. As for me, it is not acceptable way of doing FOSS12:47
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djszapi_instead of sharing with others, what they have, they do not, so others need to reinvent the wheel, plus they copy/paste things from kdevelop...this is no go from my pov.12:48
djszapi_and the cmake apparoach of theirs are pretty much odd (They even work on a better automoc, I mean what, automoc instead of a better cmake support, really?)12:49
Sputtoo bad KDevelop doesn't have all the neat QML and device support stuff :/12:50
djszapi_well, those friends are not sponsored by working on it.12:51
djszapi_but at least they have a better vision of doing FOSS, and that is why I like their job.12:51
Sputoh, I very much like KDevelop and its team12:52
Sputits editor for C++ is much better too12:52
Sputbut if you want to do QML...12:52
djszapi_we could re-use kdevplatform for GluonCreator for instance, but the same with Quanta, PlasMate and so other IDEs. I also plan a shader IDE where I could use the platform part.12:52
djszapi_so thing is that, we can now copy/paste things from QtCreator to get a nice QML designer and so forth (maybe plasma active extension), but then again, it is not really a nice approach, thanks to QtCreator.12:53
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djszapi_Elessar: try to re-build it in sb.12:57
ElessarI'm trying12:58
Elessarscratchbox is very slow(12:58
djszapi_yep, do not use cdbs.12:59
djszapi_cdbs runs a lot of commands, and commands are costy in sb.13:00
ajalkaneArkenoi: the Twitter client is AFAIK done by Twitter, not Nokia, so its integration to the platform may be be lacking for that reason13:12
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Elessarhm.. where should I install all *.qml files? or there is no difference for aegis?13:19
alteregoMo difference for aegis, they're not executables.13:19
djszapi_Elessar: there is a big difference from the aegis pov.13:19
djszapi_if you do not compile it into the binary, you can change them on the fly with a trick. If it is enough for you to recompile, I would go for putting it into the binary.13:20
alteregoI'd put it into the binary, but have your executable have a dev mode that allows you to supply a -source parameter with a location to a .qml file to use instead of the inbuilt one (this is what I do :P13:21
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Elessarbtw, what does it mean?13:22
Elessar[sbox-HARMATTAN_ARMEL: ~/scratchbox/qutim-meego-build/qutim-0.2.80-harmattan] > aegis-manifest13:22
Elessaraegis-manifest: Could not find QtDeclarative loader to match QML content.13:22
Sputajalkane: more recent images of the N950/N9 software come with a twitter client13:23
Sputlooks like that hasn't been rolled out to the dev community yet though13:23
Elessarif I run aegis-manifest in debug mode (-d) it also tells "aegis-manifest: No required tokens were detected."13:25
djszapi_Elessar: you do not need to run aegis-manifest for starter.13:26
djszapi_just rebuild the package and deploy.13:26
Elessardpkg-buildpackage also runs aegis-manifest with the same error13:26
djszapi_you mean dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ?13:27
djszapi_"aegis-manifest: No required tokens were detected." -> it is not an error btw.13:28
Elessarand what about "aegis-manifest: Could not find QtDeclarative loader to match QML content."?13:29
djszapi_I do not know since you did not still send the source13:30
ajalkaneSput: that's the Twitter client I mean, the bundled one13:31
Sputajalkane: yep, I've seen it live, so it already exists :)13:31
Elessaroh, hm13:31
Elessardeb-package built in scratchbox was installed succesfully %)13:31
djszapi_Elessar: that is not any good...13:34
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Elessardjszapi_: sources are at git://, "meego" branch13:37
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Elessardjszapi_: as I see the problem is that aegis-manifest doesn't generate qutim.aegis manifest13:47
djszapi_that is not a problem, no.13:47
djszapi_that is the purpose of the auto generation, to not have a mypackage.aegis13:48
djszapi_Unfortunately, I need to help some GSoC students, but I can get back to you with this problem tomorrow, if you do not figure it out.13:48
Elessardjszapi_: ok, I'll wait13:52
Elessarbut I've noticed some interesting behaviour: simple app's aegis manifest was generated succesfully, when qutim's one not during pkg-buildpackage13:53
djszapi_Elessar: btw, harmattan branch would be cleaner, and you should not have debian_fremantle and debian_harmattan there, just debian13:53
Elessardjszapi: this source is also used for Maemo513:54
djszapi_sure, but the organization is not good right now.13:54
djszapi_there is a "meego" branch with fremantle and harmattan debian folder. Those are 3 different things.13:55
Elessarmeego branch is temporary branch, it will be merged into master in some time13:57
djszapi_temporary or not, it is worth organizing well. Otherwise it is just confusing (in this special case: it requires an extra work from me to help you).13:57
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sivanghi all14:14
Stskeepslo sivang14:15
sivanghey Stskeeps , what's up?14:15
Stskeepsnot much, hacking a bit on meego sources14:15
sivangStskeeps: oh nice, I tried to use the SDK that's off the handset itself, but it failed fetching online sources and I could not execute installation14:16
sivanganybody know anything about that?14:16
sivangwhat could be a fix?14:16
Stskeepsdunno, not using harmattan tool14:16
sivangso plain meego sdk?14:16
Stskeepsie, i'm not really developing for harmattan :)14:17
Stskeepsuse the sdk on the pages i guess14:17
sivangoh, i see.14:17
sivangso for CE?14:17
sivanglet's go to -arm14:17
djszapi_please discuss non-harmattan matters on the relevant channels.14:18
djszapi_Elessar: btw, do you also make KDE development ?14:19
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djszapi_Elessar: btw, you use the cmake in the rules file weird ;-) Can I give you my rules file as a sample ?14:21
djszapi_Elessar: Also, I cannot find this libqtm-dev14:27
djszapi_ -> ahh here, too bad: packrat does not deal with this repository.14:28
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faenilvillager: can't pm you anymore14:34
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lcukfaenil, how are you doing fps wise?14:36
faenilfrom 10 to 80fps on desktop14:37
faenilfrom 0.2 to 4fps on phone14:37
Arkenoidoes require aegis hack kernel module to be installed?14:38
djszapi_if you package it, nope.14:38
Arkenoiah. is there .deb already?14:39
Arkenoior python package with necessary capabilities to write to aegis signing interface?14:41
villagerfaenil: strange14:45
* Arkenoi wonders is there easier way to run arbitrary binary on-device rather than packaging it14:46
faenilvillager: it's working now14:47
Elessardjszapi_: I'm trying to support several platforms14:47
djszapi_Elessar: so ?14:47
Elessaryou've asked about KDE development14:47
djszapi_sorry, I am not getting you.14:48
Elessar> Elessar: btw, do you also make KDE development ?14:49
Elessarwhat do you mean by this question?14:49
Elessarthanks for rules file, I'll try to use it14:49
djszapi_Elessar: I mean whether you are also involved in the KDE project.14:50
Elessaroh, no14:50
djszapi_you used and cmake, so I thought maybe :p14:51
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rcg1anyone familiar with that error in obs: "nothing provides desktop-file-utils >= 0.15-2+maemo5 needed by libcontentaction0"?14:58
rcg1specifically this happens in the community repo hosted by rzr14:59
rcg1in my own repo this error does not occur14:59
rcg1djszapi_: ^14:59
djszapi_not sure why maemo5...15:00
djszapi_that is fremantly15:00
rcg1indeed.. hmm strange thing15:01
djszapi_why it is repo independent, that is strange...15:01
djszapi_might also well be a c-obs issue again.15:01
rcg1yeah.. already comparing the configs for both repos but there seem to be no significant difference15:01
djszapi_lbt ^15:02
rcg1<path project="MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan" repository="Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard"/>  <-- thats the relevant part afaik15:02
rcg1btw i already had my package build successfully in rzr's repo as well.. this error just appeared out of nowhere15:04
rcg1is rzr's community repo using some different infrastructure than the rest of our repos?15:07
djszapi_rcg1: please try to fix the maemo5->6 thing first15:09
djszapi_try to confine the error possibility.15:09
rcg1djszapi_: i don't seem to find where this one creeps in15:10
sivangdjszapi_: is this a .deb pkg fix? :)15:10
djszapi_rcg1: libcontentaction0 control file.15:10
rcg1as said that error does not show up in my harmattan repo15:10
sivangdjszapi_: right, control file15:11
djszapi_rcg1: yes, I know, but it is still not nice to depend on fremantly in Harmattan15:11
djszapi_however it does not most likely change anything in the outcome.15:11
rcg1djszapi_: yeah sure.. just trying to figure out where that maemo5 stuff gets pulled in15:12
rcg1neither my build depends nor depends pull this thing.. so i am now tracking things down where this could be pulled from15:12
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djszapi_very odd, there is no such a dependency in the Nokia package...15:14
rcg1these are my Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 8), pkg-config, libqt4-dev, aegis-builder (>= 1.6), aegis-manifest-dev, libaegis-crypto-dev, libqca2-dev, applauncherd-dev15:14
rcg1from the generated *.dsc file15:14
djszapi_mmh, sounds a very odd issue, sorry I have no more idea/time.15:15
rcg1djszapi_: thanks for your time anyways :)15:15
djszapi_rcg1: send the build error link to lbt.15:15
lbtrcg1: actually what djszapi_ meant to say was "please report a bug with proper information"15:16
rcg1well, i will try to get some more info about this before..15:16
lbtthanks ... I appreciate that15:16
djszapi_rcg: it is not your fault, everything seems alrights.15:17
lbtlinks are next to useless on a dynamic system so selective cuts15:17
djszapi_*alrightish, not sure how you can get more information15:17
rcg1djszapi_: just hoped you knew of some rzr specific peculiarity that you know off15:17
djszapi_maybe you can in few hours while it is two mins while logged into the machine.15:17
djszapi_that we cannot really do, just lbt.15:17
lbtdjszapi_: give it a rest. I explained this countless times. You are trolling.15:18
lbtThe only reason I even see this is because my ignore regexp for you needs improving15:18
rcg1well.. guys.. i really appreciate both your help.. didn't mean to kick off some deeper discussion15:19
djszapi_rcg1: do you have further idea how to get more information ? I am having zero.15:19
rcg1well.. i am just trying to get through things bit by bit at the moment...15:20
djszapi_if c-obs is screwed up, it is very hard to debug it remotely.15:20
djszapi_nobody does it...15:21
rcg1for now my approach is to find the place where the maemo5 thing gets pulled.. apparently there has to be some place where this gets pulled for rzr's repo but not for mine15:21
djszapi_you can use a simple "grep" for that, but I can assure you, that is not the problem, if you know how the debian versioning code works.15:21
djszapi_c-obs is screwed up, and remote debugging with crystal-ball is always hard.15:22
Arkenoiso the question "how to run luit on harmattan" is still open. i cannot get to work.15:23
* RST38h moos15:24
rcg1djszapi_: well, i simply want to eliminate all possibilities of the error being on my side before proceeding..15:25
djszapi_rcg1: what possibility ? I do not see any error on your side.15:26
RST38hArkenoi: I think you can rephrase that question as "why run luiton harmattan"15:26
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kkitoI am trying to implement a virtual joystick using qtquick/qml, but...15:33
kkitoit seems that it doesn't support multitouch?15:33
kkitoIf i define different mouseAreas, only one can be touched at the same time,,,15:34
kkitoperhaps i am doing something wrong? Or is this behavious ok?15:34
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RST38h  kkito: Not seeing your code, it is difficult to say15:39
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RST38hkkito: butone thing you may want to know is that multitouch is handled via completely different set of ui events in qt, not the same events s normal mouse-like touch15:40
kkitoRST38h: I am using a MouseAre onEntered signal to capture when the user clicks in the virtual button. What componen should i use to be able to use mutitouch in qml?15:46
ArkenoiRST38h: any better idea how to get ssh with koi8 codepage?15:47
kkitoor should i implement it in c++ like in ?15:47
RST38hArkenoi: play with locale?15:49
RST38hkkito: No, onEntered will not do15:49
rcg1djszapi: i think i can narrow the issue down: there is a desktop-file-utils-0.15-2 package in rzr's repo.. this seems to shadow the other desktop-file-utils version from
ArkenoiRST38h: exactly how? luit is what was intended to solve that problem. run a terminal with different default locale?15:50
RST38hkkito: I am actually doing all this stuff in C++ code, so can't tell you the exact QML callback name, but onEntered is signalled for normal mouse events15:50
RST38hset locale to russian, and you should get koi815:50
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ArkenoiRST38h: it's ugly, i need different desktop shortcut or something15:51
Arkenoiand i already have luit binary, i just need aegis to stop bothering with it15:51
RST38hMeanwhile: Teacher Cannot Be Sued For Denying Creationism15:51
RST38hArkenoi: you are spending too much valuable time making this work, when compared with expected benefit15:52
ArkenoiRST38h: i expected it to be simple :-)15:52
RST38hArkenoi: So either you have got too much free time, or you are not noticing the loss15:52
RST38hArkenoi: Aegis. Won't be simple.15:52
ArkenoiRST38h: and what bothers me is methods to knock it down apparently stop working on newer firmware15:56
rcg1rZZZr: ping15:57
RST38hArkenoi: Well, you should have stuck with the older firmware.15:57
ArkenoiRST38h: it does not do gtalk15:58
Arkenoiand will be replaced soon anyways15:58
MohammadAGor does it15:58
MohammadAGwhere's this new firmware?15:58
vladestnew firmaware? n950? want it!16:02
macmaNwhat where who16:03
vladestand why16:03
SpeedEvilThere are new internal images.16:05
alteregoCan't seem to update my N8 to Symbian Anna /16:05
RST38hAnyway, time to go.16:05
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rcg1rZZZr: i queried you about the "nothing provides desktop-file-utils >= 0.15-2+maemo5 needed by libcontentaction0" issue16:24
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hiemanshu_N950what lib or api do i need to use if i want to send notifications to the notifications screen?17:00
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vladestis there is an editor in n950's term to edit /etc/ files?17:20
wazdVi I mean17:21
vladesthate it17:22
vladestbut thanks anyway17:22
macmaNvi rules17:24
macmaNat least compared to ed17:25
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sivangvi is the BEST.17:27
* sivang loves VI.17:27
deimosok, my phone doesnt start anymore :(17:30
deimosNokia text appears and then blank17:30
deimosNeed I to reflash ?17:30
deimoshey wazd , did you release your app ?17:31
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wazddeimos: not quite, I guess the event was canceled and our devs are still fixing things :)17:33
deimosoh :(17:33
wazddeimos: but I guess now I can concentrate on X anyway  :)17:33
deimosgood thing :)17:34
wazddeimos: since all major things on my side are done17:34
deimosdidnt know what I done with the phone...17:34
deimoswhile trying to unindtall an app, my finger chosen another that I didnt want to remove, but dont know which I removed, and now it doesnt starts17:35
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hiemanshuvladest: there is also nano17:41
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hiemanshuis there a way to set the fontSize for the TextArea without having to do any fany stuff, so I can just do font.pixelSize or something like that and set it to an int17:47
hiemanshudjszapi: around?17:48
vladesthiemanshu: 10x!17:48
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GAN950grrr crashing18:03
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hiemanshuGAN900: crashing at?18:20
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artemmI am building a simple single screen app for harmattan19:40
artemmfrom ui guidelines I can't figure out if there should be a Back button or not19:40
artemmit would be the only toolbat button and it would exit the app19:41
artemmis that standard enough fro harmattan UX?19:41
artemmsystem apps don't seem to have exit button at all :/19:42
kimjuyou exit via swipe19:42
artemmand that's it19:42
kimjuand close from the task manager screen19:42
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artemmerrgs, I added a toolbar already. Should have examined system apps earlier19:43
kimju(or according some demo videos, swipe down will terminate the program in future version)19:43
kimjuyou are ofcource free to add toolbar to your software :)19:44
artemmwell, the only tolbar button planned was Exit :)19:44
artemmprobably I was under influence of Android paradigm that expects everything to be able to Back to somewhere19:45
dm8tbrsymbian too :)19:46
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artemmSymbian isn't that consistent19:46
artemmthere's explicit Exit option in most of apps19:46
artemmsometimes replaced by Back19:46
mikhasartemm, dont use back arrow for exit19:47
mikhasmain view of app simply has no back arrow19:48
artemmthanks, mikhas, I followed the advice and killed toolbar already19:48
artemmGosh, why does facebook app show all the chats with a person in same window and positions window so that oldest messages are visible from start19:53
artemmI am getting very tired flicking to latest messages every type.19:54
artemmTakes some twenty swipes for some conversations and it's gonna grow :)19:54
artemmI mean twenty flicks19:54
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hiemanshuartemm: you know kinetic swipes work right? shouldn't take 2020:05
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rZZZrrcg1: deleted those packages21:39
rZZZrI hope it did not affect you too long21:39
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rcg1rZZZr: sorry.. didn't saw you in here21:55
rcg1*see even21:56
rcg1rZZZr: thanks.. its building now :)21:57
rcg1well i just noticed it today.. took me some time to actually figure out that the package you put there "shadowed" the package from the stock repo21:57
artemmhiemanshu, it doesn't matter how kinetic the swipe is. With hundreds of chat messages it takes many seconds to get to the last message unless there some kind of shortcut as e.g. in Opera Mobile or in a phonebook (where you can scroll to any part of a list with one finger move)21:58
hiemanshuartemm: odd, but seems to work for me21:59
artemmI'll retry now to double check21:59
rcg1rZZZr: kinda interesting that it is possible to shadow packages that way.. we should keep that in mind in case we get other similarly strange issues22:00
artemmhiemanshu, I used wrong terminology. It's Messages in Facebook client, not chat22:01
artemmtook me 38 flicks to get to the last messages for one person I chat quite much with22:02
artemmwill definitely grow over time22:02
artemmin fact I find the whole idea of positioning window at the oldest messages from the very beginning quite strange :)22:02
artemmusually that's exactly the last messages I want to see :)22:03
hiemanshuartemm: you mean from inside the app? but not from the Messages view?22:03
hiemanshuI use the messages view, works just fine for me22:06
artemmI don't have many messages there yet (flashed N950 yesterday, it deleted all messages)22:07
artemmI guess there is some way to quickly scroll to end of a list if it works for you22:07
hiemanshuI thought you meant the messages view22:08
artemmfacebook message view isn't good unfortunately22:08
artemmfrom app grid I start facebook app22:08
artemmthen I select Messages view22:09
artemmthen I open some long-long chat22:09
artemmand I can't see the way to quickly jump to the last messages22:09
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KhertanHello !22:18
wazdKhertan: heya22:18
hiemanshuhey Khertan22:18
rZZZrhi mr editor22:19
wazdI just had an idea, what a wonderful move would it be if Harmattan would move to Vertu division :)22:20
wazdSo many awesome luxury handsets could be made with fascinating looks22:20
wazdThe whole "no buttons" concept cries "make me out of gold!" :)22:21
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KhertanRzzzR :)22:34
Khertanjust back from holidays22:34
Khertanno networks ... huhu22:34
Khertansomeone have successfully use a vpn on harmattan ?22:35
Khertanmy stupid phone isp is locking everythings now ... even a gz archive22:36
Khertanso no apt-get update22:36
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dm8tbrKhertan: I checked and there was one type of tunnel device. either tun or tap compiled into the kernel22:43
dm8tbrso something should be possible22:43
Khertandm8tbr: hum but openvpn can t use it22:50
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dm8tbrKhertan: mhm, probably needs to be packaged with all those capabilities etc :/23:24
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piggzhas anyone used the n950 navigation properly? ive jst used it to get to/from manchester uk...and, although it worked getting me to the traffor centre, it went completely mental navigating from home-manchester, and manchester-cheadle ........ i had no idea where it was trying to take me!23:29
mikhasworks for me23:32
mikhasbut I also am online all the time23:32
mikhasprobably helps, since it usually gets routes from remote server, if possible23:32
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mikhaspiggz, what I observed is that it quickly gets confused if car stands still23:33
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piggzmikhas: that would explain it gettin confused coming out of manchester, but not the inital trip of cumbria-manchester....a very simple trip down the M6, it was sending me any way except to the M6 :)23:34
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alteregoI started writing a qml plugin to interface with a remote highscore table/ranking system I'm working on for a game.23:50
alteregoWonder if it could be used in a more generic way.23:50
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lcukalterego, see gluon23:53
lcukspeak to djszapi and leinir23:54
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mikhasalterego, "Harmattan Achievements"23:55
mikhasso yes23:55
mikhaswould be nice if a game could just hook into it23:56
mikhaswhile you maintain the infra =p23:56
alteregolcuk: good reminder23:57
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alteregoI want this to be more generic than gluon and more light weight.23:58
alteregoThough it sure is something they could use if they wanted.23:58
mikhasgeneric, light weight … *checks urbandictionary* … right, that means useless!23:58

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