IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-08-20

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Jaffaalterego: Second bit of and
Jaffaalterego: gcobb for council, IMHO10:21
Stskeepsah,, much fun :P10:22
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JaffaStskeeps: You're probably one of the evil siphoners as well10:35
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Stskeepsyeah, i'm a bit of a demon with strong opinions :P10:36
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wazdhi all11:15
wazdRST38h: ping?11:15
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Arkenoi <- fow to get this thing?11:26
wazdArkenoi: ?11:27
Arkenoiah. works now. when i tried it yesterday it returned to the same page without downloading anything11:28
DocScrutinizer~dist siphoner11:35
DocScrutinizer~dict siphoner11:35
infobotcould not find definition for siphoner11:35
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wazdRST38h: anyway, check your inbox for christmas presents :)11:55
DocScrutinizerLOL >>We've always said MeeGo on the N900 will never be ready for "end users" it's not yet and probably never will be a goal for the project.[...]When I talk about MeeGo on, I'm targetting the developers, we need people to port apps to the platform and help us make it more complete, so we're trying to attract more involvement from maemo developers and grow our community.<< So let me make sure I get this right: maemo11:55
DocScrutinizerdevels should join the meegoCE community to make an OS&apps more complete, though the OS&apps isn't, never was, and never will be meant for "the maemo users" - DANG *this* makes a lot of sense11:55
alteregoJaffa: mildly insulting :)12:00
alteregoHah, that's my post :)12:02
alteregoJaffa: yeah, cobb sounds reasonable.12:05
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: ah back to twisting words in the way you prefer to read them?12:10
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: the quote is c&p, so no, not twisting any words. You're back to your usual practice of bashing people for no obvious reason?12:11
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: it says 'end users' and you make it 'the maemo users', that is a huge difference12:14
DocScrutinizeror which part of the implicit request for comment in > So let me make sure I get this right: < was not clear enough to put my words right?12:14
dm8tbrthat's written like a rhetoric question.12:15
DocScrutinizersorry I'm not in a mood to start a discussion based on an initial insult12:15
dm8tbrso if you actually expect answers, yes you got it wrong IMO12:15
dm8tbr*shrug* I've got a snowball pdk on my desk that prefers my attention right now12:16
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Stskeepsend users = people who expect their warranty to be kept, wouldnt do flashing on their own, expect nokia support to answer questions12:28
dm8tbrnot your average maemo crowd12:33
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faenilgood morning everyone :D12:38
faenilso QtCreator is still missing project renaming feature???12:49
faenilis QtCreator*12:49
DocScrutinizerwhatever, left nothing for me to say, except "+1 ! From a guy who was inmidst the OM desaster"12:53
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lcuklol faenil13:06
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faenildoes anyone know if the N950 driver supports Vertex Buffer Objects?14:01
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villagerVBO? isn't that like standard core OpenGL ES14:09
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faenilyes but it's opengl 1.514:14
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villagerI'm pretty sure it's GLES, but still, opengl 1.5 also made VBOs part of the core api14:19
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thpfaenil: i only found (which is for the n900), but it says that it's possible somehow with the n900 (which suggests to me that it should be possible with the n950 as well)14:39
thpfaenil: also the Qt Games API's docs mention VBOs:
faenilok thanks..14:56
faenilI read some threads about people being disappointed of how little gain there was with VBOs on Nokia N814:57
faenilso I thought some good implementation or stuff like that was needed14:57
wazdwooo, I have weather app on my N950 :P14:58
wazdall hail to Tanya! :D14:58
thpwazd: i hope it displays sunshine ;)14:58
wazdthp: in fact it's damn difficult to test color binds cause i can't find any place with negative temperature :D14:59
wazdthp: and no, it's rainy in Moscow now :)14:59
faenil30° here, I'm burning xD15:01
thpwazd: the backend people should implement a "fake" place where the weather always changes15:03
thpjust call it "Wonderland" or "Teh Internets"15:04
wazdthp: yeah, but right now we're rushing to make some sane .deb to show it tomorrow15:04
thpwhat's tomorrow?15:05
thp(apart from sunday, obviously)15:05
wazdthp: As I remember we'll have N9 presentation event @ local Nokia flagship store15:06
wazdbut I'm not sure bout it cause I still don't have any kind of invitation or something :D15:07
thpcool. didn't know nokia was in the flagship business :p15:09
wazdthp: yeah, I guess that's their plan to destroy Apple :D15:11
wazdthp: literally :D15:11
deimosI think nokia will destroy itself :)15:12
deimoswazd, so today will be the great day ? :)15:12
wazddeimos: I really hope so :D15:14
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spenapwazd, are you trying meecast already? are you allowed to share the early-deb? :D15:29
spenapbecause after seeing the blog post, I'm eager to try it myself15:30
wazdspenap: it's extremely buggy right now, trying to make something actually testable15:37
spenapok, :), I'll wait then, no hurries. It looks great :)15:38
wazdspenap: thanks :)15:39
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faenildoes anyone know how I can include glGenBuffersARB()-like functions so that I can still compile for destkop, symbian, harmattan?15:43
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villagerfaenil: if you target opengl 1.5, you could probably just use glGenBuffers()... other than that, consider using something like GLEW15:48
thpfaenil: not knowing much about it, i believe that qt games api does abstract the differences away15:48
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faenilthp: sure15:48
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faenilvillager: ok I'll try that, about GLEW, I don't think it supports symbian and harmattan too...15:49
villagerunless qt already does something similar to glew15:49
villagerfaenil: should it have to?15:50
faenilvillager: glgenbuffers is still not recognized, but thanks anyway15:50
faenilvillager: well, I need that :)15:50
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villagerfaenil: isn't it enough that it supports opengl, which symbian and harmattan presumably provide? haven't tried glew myself, but just wondering what's the problem...15:52
villageror is the problem that glew doesn't support opengl ES?15:53
faenilvillager: don't bother, I'm making a mess :)15:53
villagerhmm, a google search seems to indicate that glew may not directly support GLES, no...15:55
faenilright :(15:57
villagerfaenil: in any case, glGenBuffers() should probably work on both GLES and desktop OpenGL if desktop has OpenGL 1.5... you might just need to #include <GL/glext.h> where available16:01
faenilbut glext is not found..16:02
villagerfaenil: you can download glext.h (desktop version) from here:
villagerfaenil: you may also need "#define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES" before including that header...16:04
faenilyeah tried that16:04
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hiemanshuwhat could be wrong with return _backend.value(APPSETTING_PARTMESSAGE, QVariant("Leaving this channel. (with IRC Chatter, the first MeeGo IRC client)")).toString(); it seg faults16:05
hiemanshu_backend is an instance of QSettings16:05
GAN900fiferboy, how'd the build turn out?16:07
villagerfaenil: then what exactly's not working?16:07
faenilnow I added glext you linked16:07
faeniland qtcreator crashed, but there were 200+ errors in the h (compiler said)16:07
zarlinohiemanshiu: how the constant is defined and why QVariant.toString() insted of directly using QString?16:08
villagerfaenil: the includes would need to be in the right order...16:09
villagerfaenil: glext should probalby come after including standard GL stuff...16:09
faenilyea done :)16:09
hiemanshuzarlino: well, it expects a QVariant there16:10
faenilvillager: it's compiling for desktop now :)16:10
zarlinohiemanshu: so why "toString()"?16:11
hiemanshuzarlino: because return type is QString16:11
zarlinohiemanshu: oh sorry I misread a parenthesis16:11
villagerfaenil: cool, hope it works16:11
faenilvillager: hope it will work on mobiles xD that's what matters XD16:12
zarlinohiemanshu: how did you define APPSETTING_PARTMESSAGE?16:12
hiemanshuzarlino: #define APPSETTING_PARTMESSAGE "PartMessage"16:12
faenilvillager: ok unresolved symbol, need to link some library...16:14
villagerfaenil: is this windows or linux?16:14
zarlinohiemanshu: well everything looks correct them16:14
zarlinohiemanshu: then*16:14
hiemanshuzarlino: exactly, and I getting a segfault16:14
faenilusing qtcreator in Win16:14
hiemanshuI am*16:15
villagerfaenil: yeah, something glew would probably be a good idea on windows... as I recall, the standard opengl on windows doesn't define symbols for anything newer than opengl 1.2 (or maybe not even that), gotta use wglGetProcAddress for everything...16:17
faenilyou know what, I think I'd better turn to QGLBuffer16:17
faenilyes win has headers from 200216:18
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villagerfaenil: yeah, qt is made to handle portability crap I suppose, so if it does handle this, then it's probably just as well to use it...16:23
faeniljust I can't find any tut about it, I'll have to play with it :)16:24
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GAN900No TouchPad for me, seemingly.17:04
GAN900Out of stock everywhere.17:06
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javispedrotrying local osc build fails here, it tries to wget harmattan package sfrom and fails18:34
javispedrodo you know if I should set it up so that it tries an alternate mirror or something?18:34
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Elessarhi all! had anybody positive experience with chain QtCreator+CMake+Harmattan?19:08
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smokexclue: harmattan doesn't have runtimes for cmake compiled binaries19:58
faenilyey! Thanks to villager, vbos for spotting a bug, vbos are now enabled in my mini engine :D19:58
faenilyey! Thanks to villager for spotting a bug and for the support, vbos are now enabled in my mini engine :D19:59
Elessarsmokex: I've built binary by cmake and madde20:06
Elessarand it've run on device succesfully20:06
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djszapin950what is the name of the pdf viewer app ?20:14
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Jaffaalterego: Graham's a good chap20:25
faenildamn, VBOs did not help the n950....still 4fps... :(20:31
GAN900Why wasn't he in SF, Jaffa?20:32
GAN900(and which fun thread am I missing now?)20:32
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artemmHi All20:37
JaffaGAN900: I can't remember - I think it was work20:38
JaffaGAN900: Would've been good to have him there - I can imagine his reaction to the keynote ;-)20:38
JaffaGAN900: Second bit of and
artemmI want to have app title at the top of app view. Like one in most of system app. However, all the examples don't use any header whatsoever even though UI guidelines tell something about. Does anybody know a component for app header? Or maybe at least some system constants for standard width/colors?20:39
ajalkaneartemm: no component at the moment. Just do a Rectangle.20:40
artemmit's a pity20:40
artemmI clearly remember that I was reading about concrete recommended number of pixels for it in ui guidelines, but can't find it now20:41
ajalkaneartemm: do what I do... take a screenshot and measure it ;)20:42
GAN900Jaffa, ugh, the keynote.20:42
artemmthat would be a fall back indeed :)20:42
* GAN900 imagines it with an N9 announcement and free N950s.20:42
artemmI'll try re-reading guidelines again20:42
ajalkaneartemm: please let me know if you find the answer.20:43
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artemmgrrh, spent half an hour already trying to find the default header width20:56
artemmoh why didn't I write it down when I saw it first time20:56
artemmthere were also plenty of other standard UI constants such as standard screen margins of 16 pixels20:57
ajalkane_N950You must mean height, width spans the screen. UIConstants.js has margin and other misc constants20:58
artemmyep, height it was20:59
artemmfunny, developer library search on "UIConstants.js" returns nothing21:00
ajalkaneI'm not sure if it's official. It's currently used internally, but I think for the time being it's the best we have. See
artemmI found that UiConstants.js are internal, but some UiConstants are public :/21:02
ajalkanein meego component's plugin.cpp is UiConstants defined.21:03
ajalkaneBut as far as I know it's not available at least in N950 firmware.21:03
ajalkaneAnd it doesn't have much stuff...21:03
artemmreading thread about similar issues:
artemmlooks like I am not alone looking for standard sizes, colors, icons, etc21:04
ajalkaneYeah it's driving me insane also.21:04
artemmhmm, my code uses import QtQuick 1.121:05
artemmso UiConstants should be there21:05
ajalkaneUiConstants is defined in the part21:05
artemmon the other hand thread seems to state current N950 supports QtQuick 1.0 only21:05
artemmHey, ajalkane, thanks for the direct link to js!21:07
artemmI don't quite understand why it's not working in the current N950 build, but I can just copy the same constants21:08
artemmNow I need to figure out standard icons and maybe colors :)21:09
ajalkaneYeah I copied UIConstants.js and add there my own needed constants21:09
artemmDo you know if there is a way to somehow list what is available in the theme?21:09
ajalkaneIt doesn't work because QML import doesn't bring javascript files.21:09
artemmI mean I've seen examples on how to fetch icon from a theme engine, but don't know how to see what's available21:09
ajalkaneartemm: check the device /usr/share/themes/blanco21:10
artemmu mean on actual hardware?21:10
ajalkaneyeas, or on your dev machine if you've installed the Harmattan theme there.21:11
artemmI am on the default SDK only, so don't have Harmattan sources21:11
artemmmaybe I should download them21:11
ajalkanedo you have N950?21:11
ajalkaneyou can scp them from the device to your machine21:11
ajalkaneI fetched them from the QEMU emulator because I didn't have N950 at the time. Works that way too.21:12
artemmhey, I have QEMU installed!21:12
artemmwill figure where it's installed and look there21:13
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harbaumWhat's the tablet you having been talking about? The HP tablet?21:42
harbaumFor me HP still lists it for at least €39921:43
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harbaumWhy isn't MS trying to do this with the MeeGo/Maemo guys?
Stskeepswe have more pitchforks22:19
harbaumThat was actually the first thing i expected to happen after the WP7 announcement of nokia: That they try to move all resources to WP7 incl the Maemo/MeeGo crowd22:21
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harbaumHmm, regarding that tweet: /join #WindowsPhone creates a new channel. Odd :-)22:23
harbaumThe fact that irc and twitter use the same notation often confuses me22:24
MohammadAGFreenode is for foss projects, #WindowsPhone shouldn't exist here :P22:25
harbaumI would take a free WP7 phone ... just to play with it some hours ....22:27
hiemanshuand then see if the internals match the color of the concrete22:30
ieatlintharbaum: because nokia is doing it for them22:31
ieatlintand they're targetting symbian devs more22:31
ieatlintbut nokia has promised launchpad members a free nokia wp7 phone "once they become available"22:32
faenilthat was for old membmer22:32
faenilin the same email Nokia promised a free ticket for Nokia World22:32
ieatlintand an e722:33
faenilI have been in contact with Nokia, and no free ticket for me22:33
ieatlintyeah, i wouldn't discount getting the wp7 phone22:33
ieatlintespecially if you take advantage of their MS dev program offer22:33
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ajalkaneHmm... If Nokia were to offer me free WWP7 to develop stuff for it, I don't think I would take it. I have zero interest in developing for it, and my free-time is too valuable to spend on zero-interest items. Taking the phone in those circumstances would be dishonest.22:51
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VenemorZZZr, I've added you as collaborator to IRC Chatter23:05
VenemorZZZr, you can fix the packaging stuff (I will be offline for some time)23:05
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GAN900Venemo, remind me to clone your repo next week.23:11
wazdThe smiley in the end is Pure Epic. My face exactly :D23:11
GAN900(Because I need more things on my plate I'm making no progress on)23:11
ajalkaneHope to see MeeCast soon!23:13
wazdajalkane: really, nothing fancy yet. It works, but it's basically the only thing it does well :)23:15
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ajalkanewazd: ah, but that's exactly what I need. I just want to see the weather cast. MeeCast seems to give it very clearly and beatifully.23:15
ajalkaneI don't need the app to provide a raincoat for me also :)23:16
wazdajalkane: I hope I'll be able to share the deb tomorrow :)23:16
ajalkanewazd: that'd be great!23:17
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Elessaris there any ability to install additional packages to madde?23:34
Elessari.e. libqca223:34
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ajalkaneElessar: yes there is, see Madde/bin/mad-admin xdpkg23:54
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Elessarthank you23:58

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