| *** willer_ has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| *** lizardo has quit IRC | 00:06 | |
| *** baraujo has quit IRC | 00:06 | |
| ajalkane | i | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 00:08 | |
| *** GAN950 has quit IRC | 00:10 | |
| *** Tronic has joined #harmattan | 00:27 | |
| *** cpscotti has joined #harmattan | 00:54 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 01:03 | |
| *** cpscotti has quit IRC | 01:07 | |
| *** zchydem has joined #harmattan | 01:13 | |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, ping | 01:18 |
| *** rcg2 has quit IRC | 01:20 | |
| *** GAN950 has joined #harmattan | 01:22 | |
| *** GAN950 has quit IRC | 01:23 | |
| *** GAN950 has joined #harmattan | 01:23 | |
| *** GAN950 has quit IRC | 01:25 | |
| *** hardaker has joined #harmattan | 01:43 | |
| *** GAN950 has joined #harmattan | 01:51 | |
| *** GAN950 has quit IRC | 01:52 | |
| *** GAN950 has joined #harmattan | 01:52 | |
| *** GAN950 has quit IRC | 01:54 | |
| *** CaCO3 has quit IRC | 01:57 | |
| *** rm_work has quit IRC | 02:09 | |
| ajalkane | I'm getting on device "ReferenceError: Can't find variable UiConstants". Yet I see it in qt-components sources and in the QmlExamplesGallery source it is used. Is it missing from N950 firmware and anyone know if it's going to be on the shipper firmware? | 02:14 |
| ajalkane | s/shipper/shipped | 02:14 |
| *** epage has joined #harmattan | 02:34 | |
| *** mgoetz has quit IRC | 02:35 | |
| *** guruz has joined #harmattan | 02:36 | |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 03:01 | |
| Venemo_N950 | ajalkane, it's in /usr/lib/qt4/whatever | 03:02 |
| *** antman8969 has quit IRC | 03:03 | |
| ajalkane | Venemo_N950: I know it's in the meego plugin library... but it doesn't seem to be usable on device. Do I need to add some library to .pro for it to work on device? I only have declarative so far. | 03:03 |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 03:04 | |
| Venemo_N950 | ajalkane, you can't use it from your own code | 03:07 |
| ajalkane | Venemo_N950: argh... ok thx, I'll just use hacked up UIConstants.js then. | 03:08 |
| Venemo | most of the values from it are available in PlatformStyle properties | 03:08 |
| Venemo | but if you want, you can always copy-paste UIConstants.js to your own project | 03:09 |
| ajalkane | yeah that's what I'm doing right now, feels dirty | 03:09 |
| ajalkane | well, off to sleep | 03:11 |
| Venemo | sleep well:) | 03:13 |
| *** crevetor has quit IRC | 03:33 | |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, pong | 03:56 |
| MohammadAG | UIConstants.js will be in the next version/update/whatever | 03:57 |
| Venemo_N950 | MohammadAG, have you tried IRC Chatter? | 03:58 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 03:59 | |
| MohammadAG | Venemo_N950, not yet, I need a secure connection | 03:59 |
| Venemo_N950 | it supports ssl | 03:59 |
| Venemo_N950 | isn't that good enough? | 04:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | MohammadAG, but this is not what I pinged you for. | 04:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | MohammadAG, I wanted to talk to you about memory usage of qml apps. do you remember your findings from back then? | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo_N950, custom port | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | Yeah, QML rapes memory | 04:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | MohammadAG, you can also set a custom port | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | oh goody | 04:04 |
| MohammadAG | 0.1? | 04:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | 0.1.1 | 04:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | :P | 04:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | MohammadAG, that is what I thought too... but I'd like to know how you measured memory usage | 04:04 |
| MohammadAG | the more the memory usage the more the N900 sucks | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | when using QML apps, the N900 is top on the list of things that suck | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | so as you can see from my model, my measurements are very accurate and precise | 04:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | so anyway, how did you measure it? | 04:05 |
| ieatlint | valgrind i think can give some info on memory usage | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo_N950, not in an accurate way | 04:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | did you use top? | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | qmltube, 12MBs at startup, full mediaplayer (OMP) - QWidgets, 9MBs | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | mediaplayer was in use | 04:07 |
| Venemo_N950 | then it's time to break your theory | 04:07 |
| Venemo_N950 | I've just found out that top lies about memory usage | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | The device swapping like shit doesn't | 04:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | top counts in the memory that's in fact libs, not your app | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | libs take up memory | 04:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | SpeedEvil gave me a tool called smem which can measure how much memory is in fact used | 04:09 |
| Venemo_N950 | IRC Chatter uses about 80M (same as the QML facebook app) | 04:10 |
| Venemo_N950 | but... | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | HOLY SHIT | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | what?! | 04:10 |
| Venemo_N950 | only around 30M of that is actually mapped by its process. | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | that's a lot | 04:10 |
| Venemo_N950 | and the same stands for the facebook app | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | still, that's a lot | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | you don't get 1GBs of RAM to rape them | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | I expect 1GB of RAM to work better than the 256MBs in the N900, not worse | 04:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | and it works better | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't if an app is using 30MBs! | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | XChat uses 1.1MBs here | 04:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, qml is still qml | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | insane | 04:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | I'll try just because I can, launching my app without any gui | 04:13 |
| Venemo_N950 | to see how much memory actually goes to qml | 04:13 |
| ieatlint | 30mb is excessive, but that's the way of high level languages | 04:13 |
| ieatlint | the idea is to throw more hardware at it | 04:13 |
| Venemo_N950 | yeah... | 04:13 |
| ieatlint | 30mb is nothing in the scheme of things... how often are you running 10 apps at once? because if you were, at that rate, it'd take 30% of your ram | 04:14 |
| Venemo_N950 | but the good news is that it does not have a memory leak. | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably we'll still see a device that's short on RAM and slow like molasses, despite it has 4 times the RAM and 3 times the CPU clock of my prev laptop that ran a full fledged KDE with a bit of slowness on loading full openoffice but was OKish otherwise | 04:14 |
| ieatlint | and unfortunately everything is going that way :( | 04:14 |
| Venemo_N950 | even after SpeedEvil ran it for 12 hours, it didn't go above 35M. | 04:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | it was also 35M when I ran it for a couple of hours | 04:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | well there is a gig of ram here, so I don't care the slightest... however tomorrow I will see how much really goes to qml. | 04:16 |
| ieatlint | it's just unpleasant to think that we could run this with widgets... thrown down ~50-80mb ram for the widget libraries used by all apps and the desktop manager, and then your app uses a handful of MBs ram | 04:17 |
| *** epage has quit IRC | 04:17 | |
| ieatlint | qml is running everything through a javascript engine and qgraphicsview | 04:17 |
| Venemo_N950 | ieatlint, maybe some optimalizations are possible for qml. | 04:17 |
| ieatlint | there's going to be a lot of overhead, including ram and cpu | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly I don't get it how a few 100k of lazy programmers can consider it's ok they force some BILLIONS of users to buy an additional few gigabytes of RAM each, so the lazy sloppy code of those few programmers has enough space to run | 04:18 |
| Venemo_N950 | well... don't blame me, I just used the recommended toolkit. | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't blame you :-) | 04:19 |
| Venemo_N950 | and I was not lazy either | 04:19 |
| Venemo_N950 | I even investigated a defect in the QML textarea and eliminated it from my app | 04:20 |
| Venemo_N950 | if you let it have a very large text, it will rape the cpu | 04:20 |
| ieatlint | yeah... nokia made their bed | 04:21 |
| Venemo_N950 | so every time it has more than 300 lines, I delete the last 100 | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, it's actually worse: it's not a few 100k of developers, it's a few 1000s of system architects that are that arrogant to think it doesn't matter if the toolkits and libs and sh*te they decide to deploy and promote are eating <1 or >100MB for same task | 04:22 |
| Venemo_N950 | unfortunately. | 04:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | but there is hope for them yet, because they (Qt guys) are willing to improve upon this | 04:23 |
| *** guruz has quit IRC | 04:24 | |
| Venemo_N950 | I remember the first releases of WPF and XAml | 04:24 |
| *** mgoetz has joined #harmattan | 04:24 | |
| Venemo_N950 | MS didn't even bother to make all the fancyness hw accelerated | 04:24 |
| Venemo_N950 | you can imagine how a wpf app ran on a pentium 3... lol. | 04:25 |
| Venemo_N950 | qml is at least hw accelerated | 04:25 |
| Venemo_N950 | but I still think that qml should be compiled into native code | 04:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | that would save a lot of overhead | 04:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | well anyway | 04:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | good night folks :) | 04:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | will talk to you in the morning | 04:29 |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 04:30 | |
| *** wmarone has joined #harmattan | 04:39 | |
| *** Venemo_N950 has quit IRC | 04:42 | |
| MohammadAG | a gig of ram? | 04:45 |
| MohammadAG | there's only 250MBs free or something | 04:45 |
| *** Docscrutemp has joined #harmattan | 04:46 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC | 04:46 | |
| *** crevetor has joined #harmattan | 05:08 | |
| *** epage has joined #harmattan | 05:15 | |
| *** Evgeniy has joined #harmattan | 05:22 | |
| *** hiemanshu_N950 has quit IRC | 05:41 | |
| *** crevetor has quit IRC | 05:59 | |
| npm | MohammadAG: use htop(1) | 06:23 |
| npm | re: MohammadAG> qmltube, 12MBs at startup -- curious if you have comments on why cutetube-qml is even larger at startup ( http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=28579&postcount=33 ) | 06:25 |
| npm | see http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem#Missing_System_and_Development_Tools for htop(1) in action, and useful link | 06:26 |
| *** epage has quit IRC | 06:42 | |
| hiemanshu | morning | 06:48 |
| MohammadAG | npm, I was talking Maemo 5 :) | 06:49 |
| hiemanshu | hey MohammadAG | 06:50 |
| *** Evgeniy has quit IRC | 07:02 | |
| *** Evgeniy has joined #harmattan | 07:02 | |
| *** mikhas has quit IRC | 07:09 | |
| *** hiemanshu has quit IRC | 07:16 | |
| *** hiemanshu has joined #harmattan | 07:18 | |
| *** hiemanshu has joined #harmattan | 07:18 | |
| *** mikhas has joined #harmattan | 07:21 | |
| *** Docscrutemp has quit IRC | 07:30 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 07:31 | |
| *** antman8969 has joined #harmattan | 07:31 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan | 07:31 | |
| *** Docscrutemp has joined #harmattan | 07:32 | |
| *** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer51 | 07:32 | |
| denism | does anybody know - when 29-3 image will be available for N950 (or later one)? My app is removed from Ovi Store due to some changes in "public N9 version 29-3" | 07:55 |
| *** harbaum has joined #harmattan | 07:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder if it's a competitor to inbuilt apps. | 07:56 |
| SpeedEvil | What was it? | 07:56 |
| SpeedEvil | And it has been claimed - I'm unsure if this has been stated 'officially'' - that there wil be new firmware at the time of teh n9 | 07:56 |
| denism | SpeedEvil: no, it is not a competitor :) it is very simple "password manager" :) Just a test app to check what exactly is required and so on | 07:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 07:57 |
| denism | even not "password manager" but "password generator" :) | 07:57 |
| *** spenap has joined #harmattan | 07:57 | |
| denism | ok thank you, I have to wait. | 07:58 |
| dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: I'd sure hope that the sales firmware of the N9 comes to N950 too | 07:58 |
| dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: after all they expect people to write software for the sales firmware on those | 07:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 07:58 |
| SpeedEvil | There have been commendt shtat there have been UI changes - which they probably don't want to leak. | 07:59 |
| dm8tbr | denism: you're not alone, matrixx got feedback from ovi QA that 'it works on n950 but just doesn't on N9 with wk28 firmware' | 07:59 |
| *** harbaum has quit IRC | 08:01 | |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 08:11 | |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 08:12 | |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 08:13 | |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 08:18 | |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 08:19 | |
| *** xarcass has joined #harmattan | 08:22 | |
| *** mece has joined #harmattan | 08:41 | |
| *** piggz has joined #harmattan | 08:43 | |
| *** Arkenoi has quit IRC | 08:48 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has quit IRC | 08:48 | |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 08:49 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 08:51 | |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 08:51 | |
| *** smoku has left #harmattan | 08:53 | |
| *** maxw has joined #harmattan | 08:55 | |
| *** n950evil has quit IRC | 08:58 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan | 09:16 | |
| *** rcg1 has joined #harmattan | 09:17 | |
| mece | who owns formeego.org? | 09:22 |
| hiemanshu | mece: check http://who.is | 09:22 |
| w00t_ | Registrant Name:Ruecker Thomas B. | 09:22 |
| denism | wow it is dm8tbr :) | 09:23 |
| mece | okay. | 09:23 |
| mece | thanks | 09:24 |
| mece | is there a special channel where the apps.formeego.org thing is discussed/developed/planned? | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry but formeego makes me think about horror movies involving giant ants | 09:28 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, THEM! | 09:29 |
| *** harbaum has joined #harmattan | 09:47 | |
| *** djszapi_ has quit IRC | 09:58 | |
| mariob | Aynone being successfull with passing a "--splash" to the invoker. My image gets rotated 90 deg (from portrait to landscape). I've done a workaround by rotating the pic :) | 09:58 |
| spenap | DocScrutinizer, +1 :D | 09:58 |
| *** RzR has quit IRC | 10:05 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 10:09 | |
| *** veskuh has joined #harmattan | 10:09 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan | 10:09 | |
| dm8tbr | mece: I'm not sure, best poke x-fade I guess | 10:20 |
| dm8tbr | mece/denism - see bug 20531 | 10:24 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20531 nor, Undecided, ---, thomas.rucker, RESO FIXED, Allow usage of 'MeeGo' in the domain names formeego.com and formeego.org to focus community hw adapt | 10:24 |
| *** tbf has joined #harmattan | 10:33 | |
| xarcass | mariob: even people from Nokia don't know if this is proper way to make splash images. so I've also rotated portrait image | 10:38 |
| *** slaine has joined #harmattan | 10:38 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 10:39 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan | 10:40 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 10:41 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan | 10:42 | |
| *** veskuh has left #harmattan | 10:42 | |
| mariob | xarcass: :) Well, something has to be done. A friend of mine didn't know if the app was started (he tried a couple of times) w/o splash. After I added splash he got instance feedback | 10:47 |
| xarcass | mariob: btw, i've noticed that screenshots are also all rotated, so i gave up and rotated my splash | 10:48 |
| mariob | xarcass: Maybe that explains why the default orientation for Qt meego components on the desktop is in landscape | 10:49 |
| xarcass | mariob: that's not obvious to me how this can be applied to desktop components. i've tested orientation-awareness of my app on desktop simply resizing main window by mouse | 10:52 |
| mariob | xarcass: No, not the desktop comp but the com.meego components port for Ubuntu | 10:53 |
| xarcass | mariob: lucky you. i don't have such luxury as having com.meego components on desktop :( | 10:53 |
| *** slaine has quit IRC | 10:55 | |
| mariob | xarcass: Well, there's some info about it here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2011/06/23/nokia-meego-1.2-harmattan-qt-quick-components | 10:55 |
| mariob | xarcass: and here: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3841 | 10:55 |
| *** trx has quit IRC | 10:56 | |
| *** slaine has joined #harmattan | 10:59 | |
| *** rcg1 has quit IRC | 11:03 | |
| *** CaCO3 has joined #harmattan | 11:07 | |
| *** Arkenoi has joined #harmattan | 11:07 | |
| xarcass | mariob: thnx, i've seen these. the problem is that I have mac, win and suse. so i can't see a point to install ubuntu in addition to them. this will be one too many | 11:14 |
| xarcass | mariob: fortunately, i have n950, so i've decided to sit and wait when these components will be included in QtSDK | 11:15 |
| *** dcarr_home has quit IRC | 11:15 | |
| mariob | xarcass: Ok, good call :) | 11:15 |
| *** mikhas has quit IRC | 11:17 | |
| *** leinir has joined #harmattan | 11:20 | |
| *** antman8969 has quit IRC | 11:24 | |
| ajalkane | I doubt you'd have much problems compiling qt-components on Suse | 11:29 |
| *** Venemo has joined #harmattan | 11:32 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #harmattan | 11:32 | |
| *** dcarr_home has joined #harmattan | 11:33 | |
| *** deimos has joined #harmattan | 11:37 | |
| xarcass | i haven't managed to install maemo sdk there (i've tried real hard), that's why i even gave my n900 away (to my former wife). so now i don't want even to begin all this again. well, call me lazy if you like :) | 11:38 |
| ajalkane | I won't call you that. I'd also give up after trying real hard :P | 11:43 |
| Venemo | morning | 11:45 |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC | 11:47 | |
| *** Docscrutemp has joined #harmattan | 11:48 | |
| *** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer51 | 11:48 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 11:56 | |
| alterego | xarcass: install ubuntu | 12:01 |
| alterego | Or use it in a vm | 12:01 |
| ieatlint | or decide if you need the harmattan sdk | 12:02 |
| ieatlint | if you're just doing qt, the qt sdk will include a harmattan toolchain | 12:02 |
| ieatlint | and it works on all 3 OSs you mentioned | 12:02 |
| xarcass | yeah, i know that. I use SDK from feb this year almost every day. my app is even to be included in firmware ( i hope i manage to complete it ), so there's no problem. it's rather inconvenient that i cannot run my app without the device, but i got used to this already | 12:04 |
| *** mikhas has joined #harmattan | 12:05 | |
| ieatlint | if only we were all so lucky | 12:05 |
| xarcass | correction: it will be not in the firmware itself, it will be 'preinstalled' on the N9 in our region | 12:06 |
| ieatlint | consider yourself fortunate that the n9 will be released in your region :P | 12:07 |
| ieatlint | i'm stuck trying to import one | 12:07 |
| alterego | Yeah, I think I might buy onw qhilat I'm in the states next month | 12:08 |
| alterego | Will be cheaper than getting one here in the UK | 12:08 |
| ieatlint | no announced importers here in the states though | 12:09 |
| xarcass | they even claimed to release N9 two days from now, but previous week they've said that release is delayed | 12:09 |
| alterego | amazon.com | 12:09 |
| alterego | I heard had some | 12:10 |
| ieatlint | that was widely reported, but if you actually looked at the link you'd notice two things... first that it was selling for SIGNIFICANTLY less than stores abroad, and second that it was being sold by an amazon affiliate -- an affiliate that was created just to sell that phone and had no previous sales | 12:11 |
| ieatlint | and if you look at the link now, you'll notice that the affiliate has disappeared, and amzon.com simply says the product is unavailable | 12:11 |
| ieatlint | http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-16GB-Black-Cyan-Magenta/dp/B005HA4W7K/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1 for a refresher | 12:12 |
| ieatlint | there'll be a distributor i bet, but none so far | 12:13 |
| alterego | Interesting | 12:13 |
| alterego | Maybe I'll nip over to finland and pick one up there ;) | 12:14 |
| *** rcg1 has joined #harmattan | 12:15 | |
| ieatlint | i'm hoping nokia will make it available it developers | 12:15 |
| kimju | "back in stock" | 12:15 |
| ieatlint | save me a lot of effort | 12:15 |
| kimju | back? :) | 12:15 |
| alterego | So, Nokia do N950 make it ridiculously hard to obtain, pisses off the general maemo.org folk. Nokia develop N9 make it ridiculously hard to obtain for the majority that care for the platform. | 12:16 |
| * alterego sighs | 12:16 | |
| mikhas | Nokia wants you to buy iPhones | 12:16 |
| mikhas | just give in already | 12:16 |
| ieatlint | i still don't get why nokia is even releasing this phone | 12:16 |
| ieatlint | was it some sort of contract obligation or what? | 12:16 |
| alterego | N9 os unicorn blood, and N950 is tiger blood | 12:16 |
| mikhas | ieatlint, recoup of investments | 12:16 |
| ieatlint | mikhas: i'm unconvinced | 12:17 |
| alterego | ieatlint: I'm sure there were many reasons | 12:17 |
| mikhas | well, then take the rumors | 12:17 |
| ieatlint | i doubt they'll come close to breaking even | 12:17 |
| mikhas | it was required that Nokia ships one MeeGo phone, by the Intel-Nokia deal | 12:17 |
| ieatlint | releasing a 600EUR phone in half a dozen countries, avoiding major ones like the UK and Germany does not scream big sales | 12:17 |
| mikhas | also, it all starts to make sense once you stop seeing Nokia as one entity | 12:18 |
| mikhas | but rather a hydra | 12:18 |
| mikhas | where each head has its own will | 12:18 |
| mikhas | ;-) | 12:18 |
| ieatlint | yeah, maybe, but given the investment they've made in the platform since february, and the potential confusion to consumers, that also seems weird | 12:18 |
| ieatlint | if any contract did have that requirement, there'd be a specified penalty for failing... that penalty would likely be cheaper | 12:19 |
| mikhas | So you're saying Nokia doesn't make any sense to you? | 12:19 |
| mikhas | Trust me, you are not alone. | 12:19 |
| ieatlint | and yeah, i've heard a lot of stories about how bad the management there is, with one hand not knowing what the other is doing | 12:19 |
| ieatlint | dealt with some of it first hand | 12:19 |
| ieatlint | nokia is bizarre :P | 12:20 |
| mikhas | goes for most big companies | 12:22 |
| ieatlint | not nearly as bad | 12:22 |
| ieatlint | i've seen how several big companies work, and they don't have products and managers working against each other quite so much | 12:23 |
| mikhas | well, but can you perhaps imagine how much resistance there is on the lower management levels, against this WP7 move? | 12:23 |
| ieatlint | consider how much resistance i'm told there was in the symbian levels against maemo, i bet i have an idea | 12:24 |
| mikhas | yeah | 12:24 |
| alterego | People actually wanted to keep symbian at Nokia? :) | 12:24 |
| ieatlint | i've been told by a few bitter people that the symbian folks sabotaged maemo | 12:25 |
| ieatlint | and the qt effort | 12:25 |
| alterego | I don't see how .. | 12:25 |
| mikhas | At least Symbian division succeeded in taking both down now. | 12:25 |
| ieatlint | they were due to have some success | 12:25 |
| *** leinir has quit IRC | 12:26 | |
| mikhas | ieatlint, I think the "transition" to Qt, from Fremantle to Harmattan, was made out of stupid. | 12:26 |
| alterego | The biggest success of Symbian recently is Qt .. | 12:26 |
| mikhas | Nokia didnt have a Maemo product for over two years due to that. | 12:26 |
| ieatlint | i was speaking as much of the qt support in symbian | 12:26 |
| alterego | mikhas: that isn't exactly true | 12:27 |
| mikhas | you dont throw away a working platform and replace it at once | 12:27 |
| mikhas | alterego, well, I've seen the struggle | 12:27 |
| mikhas | it was stupid | 12:27 |
| alterego | There are other reasons that stopped Harmattan | 12:27 |
| mikhas | but dont underestimate the arrogance within the Harmattan project | 12:27 |
| mikhas | especially against everything Fremantle | 12:28 |
| Arkenoi | actually just releasing new hardware for fremantle in time would be better than whole harmattan effort | 12:28 |
| alterego | Well, they've done an outstanding job imo | 12:28 |
| mikhas | alterego, who? the Fremantle people who later joined the Harmattan project to save it? | 12:28 |
| alterego | pfft, fremantle, hildon, is kinda ugly and runs like poop compared to Qt :P | 12:28 |
| mikhas | erm | 12:29 |
| xarcass | alterego: +1024 | 12:29 |
| alterego | mikhas: I dunno :P | 12:29 |
| mikhas | you show very little understanding here of how big projects work | 12:29 |
| ieatlint | hildon wasn't terrible, but, but gtk really isn't the best platform to push to 3rd party devs | 12:29 |
| Arkenoi | if there was n900i with 1Gb RAM and no other changes it would be absolute killer one year ago | 12:29 |
| alterego | mikhas: I always thought it was all the same team anyway. | 12:29 |
| mikhas | wrong | 12:29 |
| ieatlint | Arkenoi: it'd have been a niche device still | 12:29 |
| ieatlint | fremantle just wasn't refined enough for the average consumer | 12:30 |
| Arkenoi | ieatlint, unless harmattan MfE bugfixes were backported | 12:30 |
| Arkenoi | and portrait mode was implemented properly :-) | 12:30 |
| alterego | Arkenoi: I wouldn't have got it. And it wouldn't have been mass sold either, would have still had all the short comings the N900 has now. | 12:30 |
| mikhas | really, Harmattan itself is not free of guilt here | 12:30 |
| alterego | We'd still have all thed moaning kids on tmo | 12:30 |
| ieatlint | qt was a good idea i think though... but yeah, QML results in such huge delays that qt is still only just arriving on symbian | 12:31 |
| alterego | There would probably have been as many sales as the wimax edition of the N810 :P | 12:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: niche devices selling a sizeable slice of a million units... | 12:31 |
| Arkenoi | alterego, from my PoV n900 had just two shortcomings (or should i say showstoppers?): MfE bugs that did not allow it to work smoothly with google and low RAM which made it damn slow | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: heh, how about the libmeegotouch/dui and orbit stuff then :) | 12:32 |
| alterego | I didn't care about and don't care about the ram. | 12:32 |
| alterego | My biggest gripes are, no compass and no hdmi. | 12:32 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: i heard great things about mtf... | 12:32 |
| mikhas | ieatlint, when? in 2008? | 12:33 |
| Arkenoi | alterego, btw i'd buy wimax edition of n810 back when it was released if there was firmware update to make it compatible with wimax networks deployed after the standard did settle down | 12:33 |
| alterego | vsync would be nice too. But at least we have MeeGo CE | 12:33 |
| ieatlint | last year | 12:33 |
| * w00t_ stares at ieatlint | 12:33 | |
| ieatlint | albeit from nokia guys :P | 12:33 |
| Arkenoi | still no hdmi in n9, cannot understand why | 12:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: It's a comparatively large connector. | 12:34 |
| alterego | Swome ideas behind MTF are really awesome. | 12:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Which causes nasty packaging issues. | 12:34 |
| alterego | But those ideas are doable in QML now. | 12:34 |
| Arkenoi | SpeedEvil, it is there on e7 and that's just ok | 12:34 |
| ieatlint | i think nokia had some really great ideas, and some truly poor followthrough | 12:34 |
| alterego | So MTF is kinda redundant, except for a few helper classes when accessing gconf :P | 12:34 |
| ieatlint | mtf also has some stuff for accessing bits on harmattan | 12:35 |
| ieatlint | the camera classes for instance | 12:35 |
| mikhas | MTF was based on the blatant lie that Qt Graphics View would be the future for UI's | 12:35 |
| Arkenoi | do you remember 9000 communicator? it was a perfect field engineer's tool and could possibly kick the shit out of palm pilots, students could sell a kidney to boy one -- but Nokia marketed it as a manager's toy instead | 12:35 |
| ieatlint | isn't qml based on qgraphicsview? | 12:35 |
| *** djszapi has joined #harmattan | 12:36 | |
| w00t_ | it runs on top of it at the moment, but it's not entirely based around the concept of, no | 12:36 |
| alterego | ieatlint: it is currently, but is being replaced with qscenegraph ;) | 12:36 |
| w00t_ | i think qt5 already has it running on top of scenegraph | 12:36 |
| mikhas | ieatlint, Qt Graphics View is abstracted away with QML | 12:36 |
| alterego | I have it running on scenegraph from a dev build, quite impressive, love the shaders in qml 2 :) | 12:37 |
| mikhas | In fact, nothing would stop you from writing a cairo-based backend for QML, or whatever graphics library you like. | 12:37 |
| ieatlint | who wants to take bets on us seeing a stable qt5 release? :P | 12:37 |
| w00t_ | it's coming | 12:37 |
| alterego | around christmas :) | 12:37 |
| djszapi | haha nice joke :D | 12:37 |
| ieatlint | yeah, we'll see :P | 12:38 |
| djszapi | it is like c-obs is coming ... sure ... for a while. | 12:39 |
| ieatlint | yeah, or a qtmobility 1.2 that works... | 12:39 |
| *** aapo has joined #harmattan | 12:40 | |
| aapo | Hi, what can be problem: I can't run ARM binaries *anymore* on my Scratchbox (Harmattan-ARMEL target)? It worked yesterday, but when I started computer today, it is not working. | 12:40 |
| alterego | Yeah, or a qt mobility 1.1 that works | 12:40 |
| djszapi | aapo: what is "not working" ? | 12:41 |
| alterego | web os would be good if it had QML | 12:41 |
| alterego | And MeeGo would be good if it had web os UI :) | 12:41 |
| aapo | djszapi, "bash: ./hello.out: No such file or directory" | 12:41 |
| sandst1 | aapo: try giving scratchbox a kick. "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop" and then the same with start | 12:42 |
| djszapi | seems talkative enough | 12:42 |
| ieatlint | i'm actually liking swipe a lot on harmattan | 12:42 |
| ieatlint | i just wish it weren't a dead end device | 12:42 |
| djszapi | ieatlint: +++++++1 | 12:42 |
| djszapi | the new sales devices are pretty smooth, indeed for swiping. | 12:42 |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC | 12:42 | |
| aapo | sandst1, thanks I will try that | 12:42 |
| *** Docscrutemp has joined #harmattan | 12:42 | |
| *** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer51 | 12:43 | |
| djszapi | or you can just use restart ;) | 12:43 |
| djszapi | sandst1 o/ btw :) | 12:43 |
| sandst1 | \o | 12:44 |
| lcuk | morning \o | 12:44 |
| ieatlint | has anyone discovered a way to change the standby screen? | 12:45 |
| *** faenil has joined #harmattan | 12:45 | |
| aapo | What is situation of gtk on harmattan/N950? Is somebody doing/packaging it? I would like to test some gtk applications. | 12:47 |
| djszapi | packrat does not find too much things (However packrat ignores the biggest repository) | 12:48 |
| lcuk | aapo, I have seen the c-obs building gtk packages, though not sure if it is for harmattan, let me try and see | 12:48 |
| djszapi | lcuk that is not for harmattan, no. | 12:48 |
| djszapi | aapo: take a look at this one: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/g/ | 12:49 |
| aapo | lcuk, I think I also see once cobs buildlog for gtk, but http://ageofikon.com/prh/ is not showing anything | 12:49 |
| djszapi | and this one: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/libg/ | 12:50 |
| aapo | djszapi: gtk-doc, but no gtk? | 12:50 |
| lcuk | aapo, it was MartinK who was building gtk stuff, I think more as a depedency for his espeak package | 12:51 |
| lcuk | but on his home project I cannot see it there | 12:51 |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan | 12:51 | |
| djszapi | aapo: no clue, I just pointed you out where it /might/ be some relevant results. | 12:51 |
| djszapi | I am not interested in gtk stuff myself, to dig into the details more ;-) | 12:52 |
| Arkenoi | btw what is the point for aegis to prevent running arbitrary unregistered binaries? who the hell needs it? i doubt it can add anything to platform security (don't tell me about platform security, n900 ran forever with remote code exec hole in flash player) as i am pretty sure if anyone decides to target an attack on harmattan device it would be easily bypassed like all other techniques like that | 12:52 |
| djszapi | made my day ^ :) | 12:53 |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC | 12:57 | |
| *** daniels has joined #harmattan | 13:01 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #harmattan | 13:02 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #harmattan | 13:02 | |
| mece | Jaffa, hey | 13:04 |
| Jaffa | mece: hey | 13:05 |
| mece | Jaffa, regarding the apps.formeego.org; is there already something running or are we only just talking about it? | 13:06 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| Jaffa | mece: The code's been in development for a while (evolving from packages.maemo.org, I guess) and should be in a VCS "somewhere"; but I'm not aware of it running anywhere yet apart from apps-beta.meego.com | 13:10 |
| mece | Jaffa, ok so the user repos is not yet in action. I'm just looking for an apt repo to put apps in so that upgrades can be conveniently seen by users. That way it would already be populated once the fancy stuff is ready | 13:14 |
| Jaffa | mece: Home projects are definitely up and running | 13:14 |
| Jaffa | mece: And you can use that to give people access to your development versions | 13:15 |
| Jaffa | mece: See http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS | 13:15 |
| djszapi | ieatlint: you can change the wallpaper in the settings, yes. | 13:15 |
| djszapi | ieatlint: You can also do this: photo in gallerry and 'Set as wallpaper'. | 13:21 |
| mece | Jaffa, ooh, nice :) I'll check that out. Thanks! | 13:23 |
| * mece is making a quick weather app for the politically less correct. | 13:26 | |
| alterego | Jaffa: did you see my QML proto for my guitar chord dictionary app? http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/scratch/2011-08-16_13-02-23.png :) | 13:30 |
| djszapi | anybody doing qml stardict frontend ? | 13:31 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Looks nice. Although I know *nothing* about guitar chords. Guitar Hero/Rock Band is my extent ;-) | 13:35 |
| alterego | :) | 13:36 |
| *** epage has joined #harmattan | 13:37 | |
| mece | alterego, WOW! WANT! | 13:41 |
| mece | hey | 13:42 |
| alterego | mece: :) thanks, it's WIP obviously but I want to get it working by the end of next week, time permitting. | 13:42 |
| mece | alterego, A request: Add EADGBE above the strings. Also an ukulele version would be cool :) | 13:43 |
| alterego | mece: I plan on doing that yeah. | 13:44 |
| mece | thanks :) | 13:45 |
| alterego | To have multiple tuning configurations in the future. | 13:45 |
| mece | sweet | 13:45 |
| alterego | ukulele is a bit far in the future though ;) | 13:45 |
| mece | then some tuning assitance included.. | 13:45 |
| alterego | Lowest priority :P | 13:45 |
| mece | well if you do bass then you might as well do ukulele | 13:45 |
| *** lizardo has joined #harmattan | 13:45 | |
| alterego | mece: if there is no other guitar tuner app sure, I want to KISS first :) | 13:45 |
| *** Venemo has joined #harmattan | 13:46 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #harmattan | 13:46 | |
| mece | I mean I can do the chords for you. | 13:46 |
| mece | alterego, righty. I have "Tuner" on N900. Perhaps it could be ported. | 13:46 |
| Venemo | what kind of tuner? | 13:47 |
| mece | guitar | 13:47 |
| mece | or any instrument I guess | 13:47 |
| Venemo | ah. | 13:47 |
| *** willer_ has joined #harmattan | 13:47 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 13:57 | |
| *** djszapi has left #harmattan | 14:02 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 14:08 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 14:08 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 14:08 | |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 14:16 | |
| *** tbf has quit IRC | 14:16 | |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 14:17 | |
| *** djszapi has joined #harmattan | 14:20 | |
| *** ZrZ has joined #harmattan | 14:27 | |
| *** rzr` has joined #harmattan | 14:28 | |
| rzr` | Venemo: hi | 14:28 |
| Venemo | hey rzr` | 14:28 |
| rzr` | Venemo: i failed to build i-c | 14:28 |
| Venemo | why is that? | 14:28 |
| rzr` | /usr/src/packages/BUILD/main.cpp:53: undefined reference to `MDeclarativeCache::qApplication(int&, char**)' | 14:29 |
| Venemo | you need applauncherd-dev | 14:29 |
| *** tbf has joined #harmattan | 14:29 | |
| Venemo | I added it to build dependencies | 14:29 |
| *** MohammadAG has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| *** MohammadAG has joined #harmattan | 14:31 | |
| *** smoku has joined #harmattan | 14:32 | |
| rzr` | it is there | 14:32 |
| rzr` | but it does not link w/ | 14:33 |
| rzr` | it miss -L .. | 14:33 |
| rzr` |     -L/usr/lib -lircclient-qt -lQtDeclarative -lQtGui -lQtNetwork -lQtCore -lpthread  | 14:33 |
| rzr` | on that line | 14:33 |
| Venemo | not sure why not; worksforme | 14:33 |
| Venemo | I honestly have no idea what may be the problem | 14:33 |
| rzr` | can you dpkg -L applauncherd-dev | grep .so | 14:34 |
| Venemo | sorry, I can can't do that right now, I'm not on Linux | 14:35 |
| *** MohammadAG has quit IRC | 14:35 | |
| djszapi | well you can log into the device, and check it. That is lniux independent | 14:36 |
| Venemo | djszapi, the -dev package is definitely not installed on the device | 14:36 |
| djszapi | oh no sorry, since it is dev, I am wrong. | 14:36 |
| djszapi | on my device, actually it is installed | 14:37 |
| djszapi | :) | 14:37 |
| djszapi | not sure why. | 14:37 |
| *** MohammadAG has joined #harmattan | 14:38 | |
| Venemo | not installed on my device djszapi | 14:38 |
| djszapi | [sbox-maemo6-armv7: /scratchbox/users/lpapp/home/lpapp/cups] > dpkg -L applauncherd-dev | grep .so | 14:38 |
| djszapi | [sbox-maemo6-armv7: /scratchbox/users/lpapp/home/lpapp/cups] > | 14:38 |
| djszapi | rzr` ^ | 14:38 |
| Venemo | hm. | 14:38 |
| Venemo | so where is the .so? | 14:38 |
| Venemo | I just use MDeclarativeCache, as described in http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/xml/daily-docs/applauncherd/qmlboost.html | 14:39 |
| *** epage has quit IRC | 14:39 | |
| djszapi | that is just a convenience include.. | 14:40 |
| djszapi | cat /usr/include/applauncherd/MDeclarativeCache | 14:40 |
| djszapi | #include "mdeclarativecache.h" | 14:40 |
| Venemo | yeah, that's it | 14:40 |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 14:40 | |
| Venemo | I use #include <MDeclarativeCache> but don't think that's the issue here | 14:40 |
| Venemo | it builds fine for me. | 14:40 |
| rzr` | include is ok | 14:41 |
| rzr` | link is not | 14:41 |
| rzr` | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=irc-chatter&project=home%3Arzr&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard | 14:41 |
| rzr` | maybe i should push some package from h:r:h to h:r | 14:41 |
| *** lardman has joined #harmattan | 14:42 | |
| Venemo | hmm | 14:42 |
| Venemo | this is weird. | 14:42 |
| djszapi | that is probably good for hiding the issue silently. The dependency should probably be fixed. | 14:42 |
| lardman | afternoon | 14:42 |
| Venemo | djszapi, do you happen to know what dependency needs to be added? | 14:42 |
| djszapi | no clue, nor care :) | 14:42 |
| rzr` | can you dpkg -L applauncherd | grep .so | 14:43 |
| Venemo | fair enough | 14:43 |
| djszapi | What I would do if I were you is that, I would compare the gcc/g++ lines... | 14:43 |
| Venemo | rzr`, tried, no result | 14:43 |
| rzr` | qmake-qt4 || qmake | 14:43 |
| rzr` | /bin/sh: pkg-config: command not found | 14:43 |
| rzr` | that one too | 14:43 |
| Venemo | pkg-config not found? | 14:43 |
| Venemo | hm. | 14:43 |
| djszapi | applauncher indeed uses pkg-config | 14:43 |
| djszapi | that might be the missing dependency... | 14:43 |
| mariob | rzr`: Have you created a harmattan project from QtCreator? | 14:44 |
| djszapi | /usr/lib/pkgconfig/qt-boostable.pc | 14:44 |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 14:44 | |
| djszapi | /usr/lib/pkgconfig/qdeclarative-boostable.pc | 14:44 |
| *** CaCO3 has quit IRC | 14:44 | |
| Venemo | mhm | 14:44 |
| Venemo | might be possible | 14:44 |
| djszapi | rzr` should just add it and try, I guess | 14:44 |
| rzr` | just depends to it | 14:44 |
| djszapi | pkg-config is not nice way of doing things.... /me dislikes it. | 14:44 |
| Venemo | djszapi, what is a nice way in your opinion? | 14:45 |
| rzr` | do you prefer autofool ? | 14:45 |
| djszapi | no, I do not. | 14:45 |
| djszapi | Venemo: cmake | 14:45 |
| Venemo | ah. | 14:45 |
| Venemo | yeah I saw many KDE projects use CMake | 14:45 |
| djszapi | and many non KDE projects. | 14:46 |
| djszapi | and maybe also Qt5 ? | 14:46 |
| rzr` | cmake is cool , but can be a nightmare sometime on cross compiling i'll annoy you djszapi | 14:46 |
| Venemo | djszapi, what's wrong with qmake? | 14:46 |
| djszapi | it is actually good for cross-compiling. | 14:46 |
| Venemo | rzr`, ok, there is a /usr/lib/libmdeclarativecache.so, not sure how to check which package it belongs to | 14:46 |
| djszapi | we have been using it in Gluon for all the platforms actually, windows, mac, linux, fremantle, meego, harmattan, what not | 14:46 |
| rzr` | i'll tell u , some weird error i have | 14:46 |
| djszapi | dpkg -S | 14:46 |
| djszapi | dpkg -S /usr/lib/libmdeclarativecache.so | 14:47 |
| djszapi | applauncherd-launcher: /usr/lib/libmdeclarativecache.so | 14:47 |
| rzr` | veli: dpkg -S $(which file) | 14:47 |
| Venemo | aaah | 14:47 |
| Venemo | thanks | 14:47 |
| djszapi | rzr`: please do not assess a tool ebcause of your misusage. | 14:47 |
| rzr` | that one is installed i think | 14:47 |
| djszapi | coming to us for help is ok. | 14:47 |
| rzr` | djszapi: i'll show you :) | 14:47 |
| maxw | I would remove all your Makefiles and regenerate them | 14:47 |
| Venemo | I knew how to do this with yum, but never with dpkg | 14:47 |
| Tronic | rzr`: CMake is actually quite nice for cross-compiling, at least on *nix. | 14:48 |
| rzr` | tell us how you do it the rpm way ? | 14:48 |
| djszapi | Tronic: also on windows from what I can say. | 14:49 |
| Venemo | so, what is wrong with qmake? | 14:49 |
| djszapi | nightmare. | 14:49 |
| Venemo | worked for me | 14:49 |
| djszapi | sure it works for tiny projects to a certain extent. | 14:49 |
| djszapi | that is not really the primary use case of cmake. | 14:50 |
| Venemo | most of my Qt projects are tiny, so no problems there | 14:50 |
| * rzr` is building pkg-config | 14:50 | |
| djszapi | rzr`: pkg-config is available by default... | 14:50 |
| djszapi | not sure what you build and why. | 14:50 |
| Tronic | Venemo: It doesn't have its own package detection system. | 14:51 |
| Venemo | Tronic, why would it need to have that? | 14:51 |
| Tronic | Venemo: Because pkg-config doesn't port well. | 14:51 |
| Venemo | ah. | 14:52 |
| mariob | I would like to have something like maven as build system for Qt | 14:52 |
| Venemo | well it has something called "mkspecs" which works on all platforms, whatever | 14:52 |
| djszapi | Venemo: just some random tool, you might want to read: | 14:52 |
| djszapi | cpack, cdash, ctest | 14:52 |
| Venemo | mhm | 14:52 |
| Venemo | well, I need to get some lunch, talk to you later | 14:52 |
| djszapi | rzr` http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/pkg-config/ | 14:53 |
| djszapi | do not make overhead for yourself :D | 14:53 |
| djszapi | Venemo: show me how I can create packages so easily with qmake, how I can organize bigger projects like Gluon, how I can have a build server with proper test reports. Show me how easily I can embed tests and so on, please. | 14:54 |
| Venemo | as I said, all my projects are tiny. | 14:55 |
| Venemo | I have no idea how to manage large Qt-based projects. | 14:55 |
| djszapi | but you wanna provide packages ? | 14:55 |
| djszapi | you wanna test it ? | 14:55 |
| djszapi | you wanna build it correctly even tiny projects ? | 14:55 |
| Venemo | I don't know | 14:55 |
| djszapi | xD | 14:55 |
| Venemo | I think | 14:55 |
| Venemo | sorry, /me is having a VERY bad day (unrelated to the discussion here, but I still feel terrible). | 14:56 |
| Venemo | so, out to lunch, ttyl. | 14:56 |
| mariob | djszapi: I'm interested... What I want is to break up my project in small libraries which are easier to test and the same for the UI with QML for each platform. Do you have any "template" project I can look at? | 14:56 |
| mariob | djszapi: let me develop a bit | 14:57 |
| daniels | god, more build system arguments | 14:57 |
| *** daniels has left #harmattan | 14:57 | |
| djszapi | mariob: we have 4-5 libraries in gluon and many qt/kde/qml standalones. You wanna take a look ? | 14:58 |
| djszapi | I have set up ctest, cdash, cpack, we even generate windows installers as well | 14:58 |
| mariob | djszapi: I have a model which I want to do test for, I want a separate "project" as main which links statically to the model and then for each platform (N9, S^3) I want different UI's | 14:58 |
| mariob | djszapi: yes please | 14:58 |
| djszapi | https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository | 14:58 |
| mariob | djszapi: thanks,,, Now I'll take a tour :) | 14:59 |
| djszapi | not a simple/small project, I warned you :) | 15:00 |
| rzr` | djszapi: thx for p-c | 15:00 |
| *** rzr` is now known as rZZZr | 15:02 | |
| *** Evgeniy has quit IRC | 15:05 | |
| rZZZr | Venemo: build may start , i am gone, btw ping me if you add the "action on event" feature ~ ie connnect( onServerConnected, sendMessage( $msg ) ) | 15:06 |
| *** hardaker has joined #harmattan | 15:07 | |
| *** Docscrutemp has joined #harmattan | 15:09 | |
| *** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer51 | 15:10 | |
| alterego | rZZZr: could you build sqlite3? | 15:15 |
| alterego | The command :) | 15:15 |
| djszapi | sqlite3 is available by default. | 15:16 |
| alterego | Can't find the command .. | 15:16 |
| alterego | Just libsqlite3 | 15:16 |
| djszapi | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/s/sqlite3/ | 15:16 |
| alterego | Hrm, is that repo installed by default? | 15:17 |
| lcuk | i thought qt had database stuff built in? | 15:17 |
| alterego | It does, I want to poke around form the command line | 15:17 |
| djszapi | alterego: that might be another Nokia SDK team fail. | 15:18 |
| djszapi | I am poking them right now... | 15:18 |
| xarcass | alterego: +512, I also miss CLI utility on the device, it's annoying every time scp db file to the host | 15:19 |
| mikhas | mariob, good luck with that | 15:19 |
| mikhas | if you planned using the Qt SDK, you can forget about libraries just now. | 15:19 |
| djszapi | mikhas: who cares about Qt SDK :p | 15:19 |
| mikhas | yeah well . | 15:20 |
| djszapi | but yeah, that might be true... | 15:20 |
| mikhas | it is used, sadly | 15:20 |
| mikhas | even though MADDE doesnt get debian packaging right :-( | 15:20 |
| mece | I use both qtsdk an scratchbox | 15:20 |
| mece | depends on what I wanna do | 15:20 |
| djszapi | mikhas: I use sb and everything manually | 15:20 |
| djszapi | I trust myself more than that sdk tbh :) | 15:20 |
| mikhas | djszapi, sure | 15:20 |
| djszapi | and this way, everything is under my control, I can also use cmake and o ther things nciely. | 15:21 |
| djszapi | which is limited in the SDK | 15:21 |
| mikhas | and then I got burned when others wanted to hack on my project | 15:21 |
| mikhas | they use Qt SDK, I use sbox | 15:21 |
| mikhas | good bye sanity | 15:21 |
| mikhas | right, Qt SDK only knows qmake … | 15:21 |
| mece | qtsdk is quite nice for writing some quick qml app | 15:21 |
| djszapi | mikhas: qmake is one of the those things I do not like about Qt :p | 15:21 |
| mikhas | mece, did you say fart app? | 15:21 |
| djszapi | and I think it is not nice they do not implement cmake backend feature. | 15:22 |
| djszapi | just like kdevelop did with qmake. | 15:22 |
| mikhas | djszapi, our company's been working on an autotools backend for Qt Creator | 15:22 |
| mikhas | it's a lot of pain | 15:22 |
| djszapi | alterego: anyways, thanks for pointing this bug out. It is really not nice. | 15:22 |
| *** antman8969 has joined #harmattan | 15:22 | |
| mece | mikhas, I don't know how to do sound | 15:22 |
| djszapi | SDK team needs to fix it asap just like the libarchive bug | 15:22 |
| alterego | djszapi: thanks :) | 15:22 |
| mikhas | but I suggest someone else checks our plugin and does the same for a cmake backend | 15:22 |
| mikhas | mece, eat beans | 15:23 |
| djszapi | Patricia works on autotools | 15:23 |
| djszapi | iirc | 15:23 |
| mikhas | lots of beans | 15:23 |
| djszapi | :D:D | 15:23 |
| mece | mikhas, I'm working on my weather app for profanity enthusiasts :) | 15:23 |
| mikhas | djszapi, yap | 15:23 |
| mikhas | and before that, it was Peter Penz | 15:23 |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC | 15:23 | |
| mece | mikhas, made a logo and everything :) http://i.imgur.com/NnrBb.png | 15:23 |
| mikhas | both from our company =p | 15:23 |
| mece | erm icon that is | 15:23 |
| mikhas | mece, how do you call it? "Fucking Shit Weather Today"? | 15:24 |
| djszapi | mikhas: I love Patricia :D | 15:25 |
| mikhas | :-) | 15:25 |
| djszapi | I forgot some of my duties during DS because of drinking, but she was not so upset :p | 15:26 |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 15:29 | |
| djszapi | alterego: I dislike the SDK team seriously. | 15:29 |
| mgoetz | QML question.. I'm using a PageStackWindow. Is the QML supposed to rotate when i click the rotate button in QEMU? | 15:29 |
| djszapi | they are against the idea to provide the sqlite3 binary :( | 15:29 |
| alterego | most people do :P | 15:30 |
| djszapi | it makes zero sense | 15:30 |
| djszapi | since the source is either unneccesarily and they just build as debian do (copy/paste) | 15:30 |
| djszapi | they should just well publish it as well | 15:30 |
| mece | mikhas, no, The Fucking Weather | 15:31 |
| mikhas | in all possible meanings? | 15:31 |
| mece | well one can interpret as they choose | 15:32 |
| djszapi | alterego: why do we need sqlite3 ? | 15:32 |
| djszapi | tell me some persuading reason, that a manager can eat. | 15:32 |
| djszapi | some very silly manager :) | 15:32 |
| mikhas | it's part of the Harmattan, no? | 15:33 |
| mikhas | due to tracker | 15:33 |
| mikhas | so it really needs to be in the SDK | 15:33 |
| seif | guys when is the next update | 15:33 |
| seif | ? | 15:33 |
| djszapi | mikhas: I will send you the internal bugreport I am just opening | 15:33 |
| djszapi | you can "vote" :) | 15:33 |
| *** javispedro has joined #harmattan | 15:33 | |
| alterego | Well, I just want it to poke around in the databases, I can't think of a compelling mangerial reason for it ;) | 15:33 |
| djszapi | well, I think it is a silly question from the manager why we want | 15:34 |
| djszapi | because it is the part of the package, just like the libraries, that is | 15:34 |
| alterego | But it is extremely useful when developing apps that use database backends | 15:34 |
| djszapi | and much more important than other packages which are already available... | 15:34 |
| djszapi | but there is no ultimate silly manager reason... | 15:34 |
| alterego | Tell him if we don't have it the universe will end. | 15:35 |
| mece | I'm out. tata | 15:35 |
| npm | djszapi: SQLite is also used by Qt .. e.g. ~/.local/share/data/QML/OfflineStorage/Databases/ | 15:35 |
| xarcass | djszapi: well, when I did server development, we have a practice to supply sql scripts with the package, so we can execute it during installation. that's the reason | 15:35 |
| *** mece has left #harmattan | 15:35 | |
| djszapi | or the rumour says who do not push sqlite3 into the sdk will not get bread in the shop :) | 15:35 |
| djszapi | npm: no, the cli frontend is not | 15:36 |
| npm | so you can debug | 15:36 |
| npm | ? | 15:36 |
| djszapi | qDebug/printf | 15:36 |
| npm | how could i inspect existing databases? | 15:36 |
| djszapi | by a test qt app ? | 15:36 |
| xarcass | npm: for now, scp does the trick | 15:37 |
| alterego | Tell the manager he can f*ck off if he thinks I'm gonna build a database manager in Qt :P | 15:37 |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 has joined #harmattan | 15:37 | |
| mikhas | alterego, that's not how you talk with managers | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | no, you have to use more swear words | 15:37 |
| djszapi | xarcass: ok, thanks. | 15:37 |
| javispedro | this kind of stuff you better just do without anyone noticing | 15:37 |
| mikhas | javispedro, +1 | 15:38 |
| djszapi | -----------1 | 15:38 |
| djszapi | it is always better if the community has lesser maintainance work | 15:38 |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 15:38 | |
| djszapi | and it is ready on the Nokia side anyway, they just did not publish the package itself. | 15:39 |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 15:39 | |
| javispedro | well, just rebuild it and publish on rzr's repo | 15:39 |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 15:39 | |
| djszapi | javispedro: of course not | 15:39 |
| alterego | That's what I originally asked .. | 15:39 |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 15:39 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 15:39 | |
| djszapi | that means the maintenance on the community side | 15:39 |
| djszapi | which is not nice | 15:39 |
| javispedro | on early fremantle times many sdk packages were imported into extras for who knows reasons | 15:40 |
| djszapi | well, actually that would well mean duplicated efforts | 15:40 |
| djszapi | also, what mikhas told ... if that is true, there is no other way anyways | 15:40 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 15:41 | |
| xarcass | I believe it should be included into fw, because for now, i must package xml files to initialize the database. that's really sucks. using sql-scripts would be much better | 15:41 |
| javispedro | hmm?? | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: thefuckingweather.com | 15:42 |
| lcuk | xarcass, is this still discussion about the sqlite command line tools? | 15:42 |
| djszapi | lcuk it is | 15:42 |
| xarcass | yep, did i missed something? | 15:42 |
| lcuk | this discussion and observation has occured with each maemo release | 15:42 |
| djszapi | no, nothing, you are right xarcass | 15:43 |
| lcuk | and each time it hasn't. | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | http://thefuckingweather.com/?zipcode=nuernberg&CELSIUS=yes | 15:43 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: hey, it says it's fucking nice in Barcelona. I'd disagree. | 15:43 |
| lcuk | most people never need it | 15:43 |
| lcuk | except those that do! | 15:43 |
| djszapi | lcuk: apparently, you never developed things with sql. | 15:43 |
| djszapi | or in a very weird way. | 15:44 |
| lcuk | djszapi, I was one of those asking | 15:44 |
| xarcass | lcuk: well, it may not be needed for the average fart app, but i need this utility all the time | 15:44 |
| lcuk | i have done | 15:44 |
| mariob | djszapi: Do you have any smaller and simplier cmake example for harmattan? :) | 15:44 |
| javispedro | it helps development | 15:44 |
| lcuk | i was one asking for its inclusion in the past! | 15:44 |
| djszapi | mariob: well, you just need to check the few CMakeLists.txt files out | 15:44 |
| lcuk | javispedro, it is in the sdk repository isnt it? | 15:44 |
| djszapi | not sure what could be easier :) | 15:44 |
| djszapi | lcuk: no, it is not | 15:44 |
| mariob | djszapi: ok :) | 15:45 |
| javispedro | but you don't really need it for live apps on the device | 15:45 |
| javispedro | lcuk: nah, seemingly not. | 15:45 |
| djszapi | javispedro: nobody was speaking about the device ? | 15:45 |
| javispedro | :P | 15:45 |
| lcuk | where is it then? I am sure I found it when needed last time | 15:45 |
| djszapi | javispedro: we were speaking about the repository ? | 15:45 |
| javispedro | on Fremantle it was on the device ;) | 15:45 |
| javispedro | among other things that crappy GPL-violating "turbooptimizer" app used it to run VACUUM on each .db file it found ;) | 15:46 |
| RST38h | javispedro: It did? | 15:46 |
| * RST38h shudders | 15:47 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: indeed... | 15:47 |
| djszapi | mariob: the koffice/calligra frontend is also cmake based. | 15:48 |
| djszapi | I think also marble, kdelibs, kalgebra and many others. | 15:48 |
| djszapi | alure, attica, and so forth | 15:48 |
| mariob | djszapi: with support for harmattan target? | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hope that turbomizer guy got appropriately dealt with in MWKN? | 15:48 |
| djszapi | of course | 15:48 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3215 | 15:50 |
| povbot | Bug 3215: sqlite3 command-line application is not available | 15:50 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3215 nor, Medium, 1.1, connie.berardi, CLOS FIXED, People: Home button does nothing | 15:50 |
| lcuk | resolved fixed of course | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I just recently helped to build a very simple script based app that needed sql interface | 15:50 |
| lcuk | javispedro, I must have been on diablo then! | 15:50 |
| *** frinring has joined #harmattan | 15:50 | |
| * lcuk looks on notes | 15:50 | |
| lcuk | infact, yeah it was just before i got n900 that I was doing sqlite stuff | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: was a used-minutes-warning-app | 15:51 |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 15:51 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 15:52 | |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 15:54 | |
| *** antman8969 has quit IRC | 15:55 | |
| *** fiferboy has joined #harmattan | 16:07 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 16:07 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 16:07 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 16:07 | |
| *** rm_work has joined #harmattan | 16:10 | |
| *** rm_work has joined #harmattan | 16:10 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 16:12 | |
| *** crevetor has joined #harmattan | 16:25 | |
| *** NIN101 has joined #harmattan | 16:26 | |
| djszapi | alterego: heh, good and bad news. Good: they fixed it Bad: it is not available in public till the next SDK release. | 16:36 |
| *** xarcass has quit IRC | 16:39 | |
| fiferboy | djszapi: Are you talking about the sqlite3 package? | 16:39 |
| djszapi | y | 16:39 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: Could you check if there is a mysql client package that will be in the next release? :) | 16:40 |
| djszapi | mysql makes no sense on embedded | 16:40 |
| djszapi | but no, it is not even available ( for that reason, probably ) | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | It does for syncing data with an online mysql server | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: :( Thanks for checking | 16:41 |
| djszapi | I think this is a good decision of them | 16:42 |
| djszapi | But hey, you can package anytime :) | 16:42 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: And probably a lot of people would agree with you, but I don't | 16:42 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: The problem is, I want the Qt mysql bindings, which are not available because mysql is not available | 16:42 |
| fiferboy | I could package mysql, but I don't want to have to rebuild qt all the time to get the bindings for new versions | 16:43 |
| djszapi | You can ask for help from packager warrior :) | 16:43 |
| fiferboy | Packager warrior? | 16:43 |
| djszapi | I think it is not any different to fremantle, but at any rate...kde pim, kontact and others were also ported to sqlite, anyways. | 16:43 |
| fiferboy | Yeah, my app uses sqlite happily, but I liked the ability to remotely backup to my mysql server and sync other clients (desktop, tablet, etc) to that | 16:44 |
| *** tbf has quit IRC | 16:45 | |
| djszapi | akonadi: use akonadi ? | 16:46 |
| djszapi | fiferboy^ | 16:46 |
| lardman | Right, pretty basic question here, should one use e.g. Page for a page of an application, or Item which the examples seem to do? | 16:46 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: I'll take a look at akonadi | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | lardman: I use Page | 16:47 |
| lardman | good enough for me :) | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | lardman: I think those examples use Item because they seperate out into files | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | I _think_ the top level element of a Compoenent in a separate file should be Item | 16:48 |
| lardman | I thought having a separate component per file was the right way to do it anyway? | 16:48 |
| lardman | ah ok | 16:48 |
| *** leinir has joined #harmattan | 16:48 | |
| lardman | and what about the base "class" for the whole application? I need 3 different pages, with a toolbar thingie with tabs/buttons at the bottom | 16:48 |
| *** maxw has quit IRC | 16:48 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: PageStack | 16:49 |
| lardman | This is not stacked windows though, they are all parallel | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | Parallel windows? | 16:49 |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 16:49 | |
| lardman | or is that still the way to do it | 16:49 |
| lardman | parallel level | 16:49 |
| lardman | can switch from any one to another | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | Yeah, you can still use PageStack to switch between them | 16:49 |
| Mek | and it would be PageStackWindow anyway, not PageStack I think | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | Looks at the page navigation example | 16:50 |
| fiferboy | Mek: Right | 16:50 |
| lardman | there are lots of examples, too many I would say | 16:50 |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 16:50 | |
| lardman | Seems that Qt Creator gives me a PageStackWindow as default iirc | 16:50 |
| lardman | yep | 16:50 |
| rm_work | looking forward to having some time next week when i will have nothing to do and have only my laptop | 16:50 |
| rm_work | i'm thinking about an IMDB app | 16:51 |
| rm_work | tired of just porting stuff, i want to write something :P | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Will it have a bacon number calculator? | 16:51 |
| mikhas | rm_work, but there is already an IMDB app | 16:51 |
| rm_work | rofl | 16:51 |
| rm_work | i could do that :P | 16:51 |
| mikhas | it is called *browser* | 16:52 |
| rm_work | lol mikhas | 16:52 |
| rm_work | native app is much faster and easier | 16:52 |
| rm_work | it's one of the few things i miss from android | 16:52 |
| GAN900 | rm_work, ah, time. | 16:52 |
| fiferboy | Yes, the Android IMDB app is nice | 16:52 |
| rm_work | GAN900: yeah i took a week off, am visiting my home state | 16:52 |
| djszapi | rm_work: write a stardict frontend | 16:52 |
| fiferboy | rm_work: Montreal? | 16:52 |
| djszapi | I would love you :) | 16:52 |
| rm_work | fiferboy: i'm probably going to bring my G1 with me and shamelessly rip it off :P | 16:53 |
| rm_work | fiferboy: rofl i would kill myself >_< | 16:53 |
| rm_work | but no seriously, WA | 16:53 |
| GAN900 | Silly Pacific Northwest people. | 16:53 |
| * fiferboy could use an interal dict service | 16:53 | |
| lardman | rm_work: If you do write an IMDB app, would you be able to provide a DBus method to open a page on a given film? | 16:54 |
| rm_work | lardman: i'll keep that in mind | 16:54 |
| fiferboy | lardman: You thinking barcode integration? | 16:54 |
| rm_work | lardman: passing film name and doing an "i'm feeling lucky" type search? | 16:54 |
| lardman | As I'd like to farm out stuff from mBarcode-lite/etc to external apps | 16:54 |
| rm_work | ah yes | 16:54 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: You know you are a Seattlite at heart | 16:54 |
| rm_work | so by film name? or would you have some other info | 16:54 |
| lardman | well it depends what you want, but perhaps something like title, director, actor or some combo of these | 16:55 |
| rm_work | I feel like just a dbus call for "open and search for X" would be suitable | 16:55 |
| rm_work | that would work for movie titles, actors, etc | 16:55 |
| rm_work | since the search is unfiltered by default | 16:55 |
| lardman | but from a barcode I'd be able to find the title of a DVD, and would be able to pass any of those | 16:56 |
| rm_work | but i guess I could add the ability to specify a type | 16:56 |
| rm_work | i'll look into it | 16:56 |
| lardman | rm_work: whatever you think would work for the underlying structure of IMDB | 16:56 |
| lardman | cool :) | 16:56 |
| rm_work | i'm not sure i'll get too far, since working on my last super-simple app was already so frustrating :P | 16:56 |
| rm_work | and i only have a couple of days | 16:56 |
| rm_work | but I will try | 16:56 |
| lardman | np, just a thought for the future - definitely no pressure | 16:57 |
| fiferboy | lardman: If you add bird recognition into mbarcode, I'll put a DBus hook into my application | 16:57 |
| rm_work | I still haven't figured out how to get python and Qt hooked up in QtCreator | 16:57 |
| rm_work | lol birds | 16:57 |
| lardman | fiferboy: are there any bird recognition codes out there, that is exactly what photoanalyser does | 16:57 |
| lardman | butterflies was one I was thinking of, what with the butterfly reporting drive my wife told me about over here | 16:58 |
| *** trx has joined #harmattan | 16:58 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: I don't know of any, but since you took my suggestion seriously I will take a look :) | 16:58 |
| rm_work | lol | 16:58 |
| rm_work | brb meeting | 16:58 |
| lardman | fiferboy: basically photoanalyser is a daemon that runs plugins on each new image saved by the camera, barcodes are currently handled, I will add a text recogniser when I have the time, but other things are certainly possible a la Google Goggles | 16:59 |
| djszapi | fiferboy: my friend told me that it was extremely hard to port mysql to fremantle. | 16:59 |
| lardman | I should compile OpenCL and then see what people have written | 16:59 |
| fiferboy | lardman: That sounds very cool | 16:59 |
| lardman | is on my webpage now | 16:59 |
| lardman | and I'm just QML-ifying mbarcode-lite so that you can do something with the barcodes | 17:00 |
| fiferboy | djszapi: I guess I could look at the fremantle package and give it a try | 17:00 |
| lardman | but more photoanalyser plugins always welcome :) | 17:00 |
| fiferboy | lardman: How is the QML-ifying going? | 17:00 |
| lardman | just started, quite confusing, though the app is fairly simlple ui-wise, so I hope to have something working by this evening | 17:01 |
| lardman | I was thinking of cool swipe ins and vibrating/flashing tabs, but then I realised I should just get something working first :) | 17:01 |
| fiferboy | lardman: I QML-ified by birding app from Desktop Qt and once the ball started rolling things went very smoothly | 17:02 |
| lardman | it looks pretty simple, just a change in terminology which is confusing | 17:02 |
| *** harbaum has quit IRC | 17:02 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: Don't let GAN900 tell you what animations and transitions you can have, he will take them all out :( | 17:02 |
| djszapi | Yes, and he could not get a version > 5.1 to compile in scratchbox, but i guess in the meantime mysql switch to cmake and then it should be easier to compile a newer version | 17:02 |
| djszapi | fiferboy^ | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | lardman: It was pretty painless for me because I have custom model classes that do most of the work | 17:03 |
| * fiferboy sighs | 17:03 | |
| lardman | fiferboy: yeah most of the work in mbarcode-lite is done in the C++ code, so I should be able to wrap it quite simply, I hope! | 17:03 |
| lardman | so last question, Item should be the base "class" for a component? | 17:03 |
| fiferboy | Well at least Fremantle had the same issue, so if I can build mysql I should be able to copy the code to build just the mysql portion of Qt. I hope! | 17:04 |
| lardman | Should my pages be components? | 17:04 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Everything is a "Component" at heart, but all your files (except the main) should have a top level "Item" AFAIK | 17:04 |
| lardman | and then within the Item {} I stick the Page {}? | 17:05 |
| alterego | lardman: no, they should be Page {} | 17:05 |
| alterego | As the root component. | 17:05 |
| alterego | acts as inheritence. | 17:05 |
| lardman | ah ok, will check that out | 17:05 |
| fiferboy | alterego saves the day | 17:05 |
| fiferboy | I'm still at the stage where I *should* be splitting my QML up :) | 17:06 |
| alterego | :P | 17:06 |
| alterego | Heh, I religously do it. | 17:06 |
| alterego | Keeping a good balance is good though . | 17:06 |
| *** djszapi has left #harmattan | 17:06 | |
| lardman | I thought I'd at least start the right way ;) | 17:07 |
| fiferboy | alterego: I ran into a strange issue when I first started doing it where a change in one of the split files didn't make it into the compile o_O | 17:07 |
| alterego | Weird | 17:07 |
| fiferboy | It seems to have corrected itself (with a Qt Creator close/open) | 17:07 |
| fiferboy | alterego: Do you add your QML files to a resource, or refer to them by path? | 17:07 |
| Mek | yeah, I have the same problem all the time too, where I need to rerun qmake and/or do a make clean and/or restart qtcreator (I'm not sure yet which is the minimum needed to make it detect changes in new files) | 17:09 |
| fiferboy | Mek: Yup, exactly my problem (though it is currently working for me) | 17:09 |
| fiferboy | I found a project rebuild did the trick, but took much longer | 17:09 |
| alterego | fiferboy: depends what I'm doing, most of my qml is in .qml files on the filesystem. | 17:12 |
| alterego | But occasionally I use qrc's. | 17:12 |
| alterego | Oh, I used to have that exact issue with images in qrc files. | 17:13 |
| alterego | I say "used", I mean, I have had/noticed that issue ;) | 17:13 |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 17:15 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 17:15 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 17:15 | |
| *** rcg1 has quit IRC | 17:17 | |
| *** baraujo has joined #harmattan | 17:33 | |
| *** baraujo has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| *** baraujo has joined #harmattan | 17:33 | |
| *** antman8969 has joined #harmattan | 17:35 | |
| alterego | http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/scratch/guitar_chords_20110817_01.png | 17:35 |
| alterego | The logic is starting to come together now .. | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | multitouch? | 17:40 |
| lardman | anyone know how one gets the window size? | 17:41 |
| lardman | i.e. the container | 17:41 |
| npm | Mek & alterego -- i have same issue w/ qtcreator... i've taken to deleting the *-build-desktop *-build-harmattan when i make major structural changes in a *.pro file | 17:44 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Which container? | 17:44 |
| lardman | well basically the outermost window, so I can work out how large to make the contents | 17:45 |
| lardman | so knowing what the screen res is and whether we're full screen perhaps, if we have to set it ourselves? | 17:45 |
| mariob | http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/mdeclarativescreen.h have some properties for the phys screen | 17:48 |
| mariob | lardman: but your app will be opened fullscreen | 17:49 |
| lardman | so I just use parent.width in each of the Pages in my PageStackWindow ? | 17:50 |
| Mek | just use id-of-the-page.width | 17:50 |
| mariob | If you use the Page element you don't have to set width/height | 17:50 |
| lardman | mariob: it's full screen automatically? | 17:51 |
| mariob | lardman: yepp | 17:51 |
| lardman | ok cool | 17:51 |
| mariob | Hmmm... In qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/mdeclarativescreen.cpp I see "displaySize = QSize(854, 480); screenSize = QSize(displaySize.width(), displaySize.height());". This could explain why the splash screen (which the invoker shows) is rotated maybe? | 17:52 |
| * lardman look at how one handles rotation | 17:53 | |
| mariob | lardman: inPortrait property | 17:53 |
| lardman | and there's presumably a signal I can wait for to change my ui setup? | 17:54 |
| mariob | lardman: property binding :) | 17:54 |
| lardman | hmm, this is getting beyond my level now... | 17:54 |
| mariob | for example: visible: inPortrait | 17:54 |
| lardman | but what about the transition from portrait to landscape? | 17:55 |
| lardman | as I need to alter my layout when the orientation changes | 17:55 |
| mariob | inPortrait is false in landscape | 17:55 |
| Mek | have a state with when: inPortrait | 17:55 |
| lardman | ah ok, states | 17:55 |
| Mek | and then have a transition to/from that state | 17:55 |
| mariob | lardman: A good read (even if it's for symbian) is the following page: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-components-symbian-1.0/index.html | 17:57 |
| mariob | lardman: Most of the components work the same | 17:57 |
| lardman | that's a lot of reading | 17:58 |
| mariob | lardman: Do it right or do it... :) | 17:58 |
| mariob | lardman: The page contains quick access to QML element docs for Page/Button/ToolBar etc | 17:58 |
| *** Arkenoi has quit IRC | 17:59 | |
| lardman | I've been reading the main QtQuick docs, but there are an awful lot and at some point you have to start writing code, otherwise it goes in one ear and out the other; or eyeball perhaps | 17:59 |
| lardman | yeah no worries on the components, they all seem pretty easy, but I do wonder about states, and while I see examples of changing properties, I need to alter the direction of a layout | 17:59 |
| mariob | lardman: Of coz, just kidding... But serioulsy, the Qt comp. element docs are good | 18:00 |
| lardman | I guess that is also encapsulated in a property of the layout mind you, so it will work in the same way | 18:00 |
| Mek | or you can have a ParentChange and/or AnchorChange element in your State | 18:00 |
| lardman | ah yes, I remember reading about Anchors | 18:00 |
| lardman | cool, thanks | 18:00 |
| * lardman goes to do some experimentation | 18:01 | |
| mariob | Or (I haven't tried it) use Loader to load a different QML file | 18:01 |
| lardman | I saw that, I guess it might be slow though | 18:02 |
| lcuk | \o lardman | 18:02 |
| lcuk | lots of qml docs indeed | 18:03 |
| mariob | lardman: All depends how much qml code you can manage in one file :) | 18:03 |
| lardman | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/demos-declarative-flickr.html shows loader, but I'm not sure about how the list state, etc., is handled on orientation change | 18:04 |
| *** mece has joined #harmattan | 18:05 | |
| lardman | now another question, if I have my toolbar with buttons on it, whose size is related to parent.width, etc., do these buttons resize when the toolbar itself resizes, or do I need to hook a resize signal? | 18:05 |
| lardman | I'm assuming I do need to resize things and that the properties that are set at the start are just initial values | 18:06 |
| mariob | lardman: you shouldn't need to resize anything on the toolbar | 18:06 |
| lardman | oh, why not? | 18:07 |
| lardman | How is it handled for me? | 18:07 |
| lardman | bearing in mind this is my own toolbar | 18:07 |
| mariob | lardman: ok | 18:07 |
| mariob | lardman: Well, you just set toolbarItem.width: toolbar.width - margin | 18:07 |
| lardman | bbiab | 18:07 |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 18:08 | |
| *** mariob has left #harmattan | 18:08 | |
| lardman | mariob: yep but that's at the start when the object is contsructed isn't it? | 18:08 |
| lardman | oops | 18:08 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 18:08 | |
| *** lardman|afk has quit IRC | 18:10 | |
| *** CaCO3 has joined #harmattan | 18:12 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 18:18 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 18:18 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 18:18 | |
| *** joejoe has quit IRC | 18:19 | |
| *** wazd_n900 has joined #harmattan | 18:29 | |
| wazd_n900 | Hi all | 18:29 |
| fiferboy | Hey wazd_n900 | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd_n900 | 18:31 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: how's it going? ) | 18:31 |
| wazd_n900 | Stskeeps: oh, welcome back :P | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 18:31 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: It's going good, you? | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_n900: when are you back on a non-gprs line? | 18:32 |
| wazd_n900 | Stskeeps: not yet but I will be in 2 hours | 18:33 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: Any thoughts? http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/screens/20110816-153847.png | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_n900: alright | 18:33 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: fine, but it's kinda boring to be at the country without any laptop :) | 18:34 |
| wazd_n900 | Stskeeps: waiting for the train to bring me back to civilization :) | 18:34 |
| wazd_n900 | I was playing with widgets gallery and figured uot that it's actually ok to make fullscreen apps | 18:35 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: interesting | 18:36 |
| wazd_n900 | Fif | 18:36 |
| wazd_n900 | Oops | 18:36 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: I'd move percentage numbers above the pies | 18:37 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: Can do | 18:37 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: Also, the percentages are whole number now, and I added a shadow to the bars | 18:38 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: and what does the progressbar show? | 18:38 |
| faenil | fiferboy: I'd move pies about the bars :D | 18:38 |
| faenil | above* | 18:39 |
| fiferboy | faenil: I'll try that | 18:39 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: I mean right now it shows for example "seen 191 of ???" | 18:40 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: The total, so 191 of 1135 | 18:40 |
| fiferboy | The pies show that in percentage, the bars show the count | 18:40 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, :D | 18:41 |
| lcuk | stats! | 18:41 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: hmm | 18:41 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: I guess I can work on that :) | 18:41 |
| *** baraujo has quit IRC | 18:42 | |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: :D | 18:43 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: I am custom drawing the bars and pies, so I can change it around | 18:43 |
| fiferboy | And my label wording sucks | 18:43 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Stats tell you how good a birder you are | 18:43 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, indeed | 18:44 |
| lcuk | and how fast the camera works! | 18:44 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Should I give a total score by aggregate? | 18:44 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, photos/time? | 18:44 |
| fiferboy | "You scored C+, needs improvement" | 18:44 |
| lcuk | you must also do similar with fishing database | 18:44 |
| lcuk | :P | 18:45 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, i think that would not help too much unless the ratios are part of birdwatching in general | 18:45 |
| lcuk | what do other twitchers use to keep their stats with? | 18:45 |
| fiferboy | I need to abstract my model classes a bit more and I can make it do whatever you want | 18:46 |
| fiferboy | I don't actually know any real stats, these ones just seemed useful for me to know | 18:46 |
| lcuk | not at all | 18:46 |
| lcuk | you are going great as is | 18:46 |
| lcuk | the other usecases are just examples for later | 18:46 |
| lcuk | did you import the data from n900 app? | 18:47 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: it's like a foursquare for birders :D | 18:47 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: It uses the same database structure | 18:47 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, but where does it get your score from | 18:48 |
| fiferboy | The desktop version has a more powerful import from csv or xml | 18:48 |
| lcuk | or is that a mockup | 18:48 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: No, those are my real numbers. Birds seen and photo'ed are from my list | 18:48 |
| lcuk | does the app let you view the photographs also? | 18:49 |
| lcuk | or are they not retained in the database | 18:49 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: The database stores thumbnails of the files you choose, and it can show large versions from the file system | 18:50 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, cool | 18:51 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, i gather moving between computers is a bit less trivial | 18:52 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: IF the platform has mysql bindings I sync to a central mysql server which keeps all the clients the same | 18:53 |
| fiferboy | Harmattan does not have this :( | 18:53 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, I meant for the large photographs | 18:53 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yes, this is a problem. Though I may have it so I can store the files in the cloud and have the app pull from that | 18:54 |
| *** smoku has quit IRC | 18:54 | |
| lcuk | if you do that, you may as well put the database there too | 18:54 |
| lcuk | harmattan includes support for numerous types of cloudy sync stuff | 18:55 |
| * lcuk using curl | 18:56 | |
| lcuk | qt has numerous methods | 18:56 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: How does qt handle database syncing remotely? | 18:56 |
| lcuk | i meant cloud connections | 18:56 |
| fiferboy | I thought I had to use a database with a client/server interface | 18:56 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Do you know where I can find info on that? | 18:56 |
| lcuk | remember, something like twitter is technically a database | 18:56 |
| mikhas | ahem | 18:57 |
| fiferboy | I'm very interested in enabling that functionality - even better if there is no need to maintain a mysql server | 18:57 |
| *** baraujo has joined #harmattan | 18:57 | |
| *** lardman|afk has joined #harmattan | 18:57 | |
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 18:57 | |
| *** lardman has joined #harmattan | 18:58 | |
| lcuk | fiferboy, you still need to have a server - but it becomes something clients signup for | 18:58 |
| lcuk | put a web front end on it and you just extended the scope beyond your individual device | 18:58 |
| lcuk | twitter for twitchers | 18:58 |
| fiferboy | I wish we had Qt mysql available, but Nokia seems pretty firmly against that | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | it's kinda silly really, considering those things are plugins of all things | 18:59 |
| lcuk | a quick google suggests it exists? | 18:59 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: The sqlite plugin is there, but not a mysql client or Qt mysql plugin | 19:00 |
| * lcuk noticing many people discussing databases last few days | 19:00 | |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/libqt4-maemo5-sql-mysql/ | 19:04 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, so that is what is needed in harmattan? | 19:04 |
| lcuk | at least for direct support to the sqlserver itself | 19:05 |
| lcuk | otherwise, make a pretty php interface | 19:05 |
| lcuk | and talk to that from your app | 19:05 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yes, that is the package I need (along with mysql-client, I think) | 19:06 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I actually have a PHP frontend for viewing and changing, but I haven't updated it for my latest database changes | 19:06 |
| fiferboy | Basically, I want to be able to access the same information regardless of what device I am currently using. MySQL in Qt allowed me to do that. | 19:07 |
| lcuk | heh i once wrote a php front end to a tiny database, when i got to using it was pleasantly surprised the code worked \o/ | 19:07 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, indeed | 19:08 |
| *** tbf has joined #harmattan | 19:08 | |
| lcuk | fiferboy, that has always been issue with liqbase, my code worked happily on one machine but did not connect with the bigger one | 19:09 |
| * lcuk now has a bridge | 19:10 | |
| *** leinir has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| wazd_n900 | Oh, btw | 19:12 |
| *** rcg1 has joined #harmattan | 19:13 | |
| wazd_n900 | Do you guys think that using a sheet for weather stations management is a good idea? Or it's better to have a subpage in options? | 19:13 |
| fiferboy | wazd_n900: Personally, I find sheets best for something that nees the "accept" and "reject" options | 19:14 |
| fiferboy | If it doesn't need that, I use a page | 19:14 |
| wazd_n900 | Fif | 19:14 |
| wazd_n900 | Fuck :( :) | 19:14 |
| fiferboy | Hehe | 19:15 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: yeah, I was thinking bout that too | 19:15 |
| mgedmin | /usr/bin/messageserver is eating 52% cpu, syslog is eating 40%, my n950 is hot hot hot and low on battery | 19:16 |
| wazd_n900 | Fiferboy: it's tricky to jump between N950's and N900's keyboards :) | 19:16 |
| mgedmin | oops it just died | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | /var/log/syslog said something about DSME being unable to stat something, and also "last message repeated a gazillion times" | 19:17 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, is gazillion a technical term? :P | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | it's a variable | 19:21 |
| * fiferboy builds mysql for Harmattan (hopefully) | 19:22 | |
| mgedmin | Messageserver[pid]: [Warning] QAbstractSocket::waitForBytesWritten() is not allowed in UnconnectedState | 19:22 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, on the obs? | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | repeated hundreds of thousands of times | 19:22 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Not yet. Just testing the Fremantle build against Harmattan | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | well, millions really -- except every 2-4 hundred thousand repetitions get its own syslog line | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | plus a few of those DSME: failed to statfs the mount point (/home/user/MyDocs) | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | scary | 19:23 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, i guess the messageserver broke a bit | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | *whew*, MyDocs was not mounted because I booted it with the USB cable plugged in, not because of any flash errors | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | fbreader forgot what I was reading and where :/ | 19:26 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, frustrating | 19:26 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, are the fbreader settings usually transferable between devices? | 19:27 |
| lcuk | ie reading same book on n900/n950 | 19:27 |
| lcuk | and continuing where you were | 19:27 |
| mgedmin | should be fine | 19:28 |
| lcuk | cool | 19:28 |
| lardman | hmm this screen orientation example is rather confusing http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/declarative-screenorientation.html | 19:29 |
| lardman | no mention of how the actual orientation makes it into the js code | 19:29 |
| fiferboy | lardman: If you are using a PageStackWindow orientation is a lot easier than with pure QML | 19:30 |
| lardman | fiferboy: the Pages handle it automatically so I understand? | 19:30 |
| lardman | but I need to change anchors when the orientation changes too | 19:31 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Yes, if you have a state for orientation changes you can do an AnchorChange in it | 19:32 |
| lardman | any examples? | 19:33 |
| *** spenap has quit IRC | 19:34 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: You can look at my code (probably not the best example - monolithic qml file) | 19:34 |
| fiferboy | http://gitorious.org/fiferboy/lexicon | 19:34 |
| lardman | :) thanks | 19:34 |
| * lardman tuts at single qml file ;) | 19:35 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: Yeah, I think this is my last project that is still a single file | 19:35 |
| fiferboy | It doesn't bother me much at all, except that I know it is not socially acceptable | 19:36 |
| lardman | lol | 19:36 |
| lardman | code reuse! | 19:36 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Patches welcome :) | 19:36 |
| fiferboy | (I haven't gone through it in much detail to optimize yet) | 19:37 |
| lardman | ah, I've got plenty of qml to write as penance, no desire to write even more ;) | 19:37 |
| fiferboy | I probably shouldn't even have let you see it yet :) | 19:37 |
| *** djszapi_ has joined #harmattan | 19:38 | |
| lardman | hey I pushed an mbarcode-lite binary last night in which you can only see half the image and can't make out the words in the plugin list | 19:38 |
| lardman | so in terms of "not quite ready" I've probably "got you beat" there | 19:38 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Yeah, but the code is probably sparkling and pure - that's what matters here right? | 19:38 |
| lardman | hmm, results matter | 19:38 |
| lardman | and probably what the end user sees in that case | 19:39 |
| lardman | nice clean and wonderfully structured code is a personal matter that sometimes gets left behind in the rush to get results | 19:39 |
| fiferboy | Line 432 should be what interests you | 19:40 |
| fiferboy | And out of curiousity, where do you see code reuse? | 19:40 |
| *** wazd_n900 has quit IRC | 19:41 | |
| lardman | ah AnchorChanges is useful rather than my trying to change each Property one by one, thanks | 19:41 |
| lardman | nah, I meant reuse between projects | 19:41 |
| fiferboy | lardman: That's what I used to do - I had a function that would rearrange everything | 19:42 |
| fiferboy | D'oh, I thought you were admonishing my sloppy coding practices | 19:42 |
| alterego | Uh-oh quim is getting nostalgic .. | 19:42 |
| fiferboy | I also used to have AnchorAnimations that would juggle everything around on orientation change | 19:42 |
| lardman | fiferboy: well I was taking the mick, knowing that I do the same, and that I also can't really talk as this is my first bit of qml code :D | 19:43 |
| *** andre__ has joined #harmattan | 19:43 | |
| lardman | hmm, the animations sound pretty, but why did you get rid? | 19:43 |
| *** CaCO3 has quit IRC | 19:43 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: GeneralAntilles was mean and told me I was putting form over function :( | 19:44 |
| lardman | oh I see | 19:44 |
| fiferboy | I can see his point, though - why wait for the rotation animation is finished just to make the user wait while everything rearranges | 19:44 |
| lardman | well surely pretty is part of the function? | 19:44 |
| lardman | because they will salivate with the amazing animation...? ;) | 19:45 |
| fiferboy | It was probably only pretty in my eyes because it was my baby. There were issues with lable line widths while they were moving | 19:45 |
| lardman | well I think Anchor animations are probably some way off for me in any case | 19:46 |
| fiferboy | I told him I was going to lenghten the delays and amination times just to spite him | 19:46 |
| npm | compared to HP the n950 seems like a better developer story: https://developer.palm.com/content/resources/develop/developing_on_an_unactivated_device.html | 19:46 |
| lardman | lol | 19:46 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Really, once you get the hang of states/transitions/animations it is *amazingly* easy to do cool stuff | 19:46 |
| lardman | yeah looking at the docs I can see that | 19:47 |
| fiferboy | Which is probably why I put it in in the first place - it was almost as easy as leaving it out | 19:47 |
| lardman | and actually the whole state thing is very simple, it's just a pita to get the basics in place as ever when you learn something new | 19:47 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Yeah, it took my a few iterations to get to the current method | 19:49 |
| fiferboy | I was avoiding states and animations for a while | 19:49 |
| lcuk | i think I sussed why the connection dialog has a distinct button to connect! | 19:49 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, the states certainly help with the logic | 19:51 |
| alterego | states are brilliant :) | 19:52 |
| * fiferboy agrees | 19:52 | |
| djszapi_ | if they are not abused... | 19:53 |
| alterego | I used them in the dialer in a quite useful way, and I use them more now because of that. You get a call state coming in from ofono, cleverly name the QML states the same and just set the state binding to the call state variable :) | 19:53 |
| lcuk | djszapi_, of course | 19:53 |
| alterego | They're even better when they're abused :P | 19:53 |
| lardman | does one need to set reciprocal anchors? | 19:53 |
| djszapi_ | I prefer it, yes. The more explicit the better | 19:54 |
| lardman | cool | 19:54 |
| lcuk | does anybody else find capacitive screens a bit odd at times and mistaps and swipes frustrating | 19:54 |
| lardman | yep | 19:55 |
| antman8969 | lcuk especially on the bigger screens yea | 19:55 |
| fiferboy | The probably with reciprocal anchors (I find) is when you go from landscape to portrait neither knows how big it should be | 19:55 |
| alterego | Yes :) | 19:55 |
| lardman | I have major troubles hitting the call button and alarm buttons | 19:55 |
| antman8969 | the palm of my hand hits the bottom corner all the time when holding... | 19:55 |
| lardman | I've no clue why they are all so small | 19:55 |
| alterego | antman8969: +1 | 19:55 |
| lcuk | antman8969, lol | 19:55 |
| lardman | also, I can't unlock the phone with only one hand, which is very annoying | 19:55 |
| alterego | I've started swiping up from the bottom rather than the side. | 19:55 |
| lcuk | you mean the hand you are using to swipe with? | 19:55 |
| djszapi_ | lardman: yes, you can | 19:55 |
| djszapi_ | I always do | 19:56 |
| lardman | djszapi_: I can't though | 19:56 |
| lcuk | lardman has girly hands | 19:56 |
| lardman | quite ;) | 19:56 |
| fiferboy | lardman doesn't have much dexterity | 19:56 |
| antman8969 | lol apparently | 19:56 |
| djszapi_ | what does it have to do with girlish hands ? | 19:56 |
| * lardman doesn't like risking dropping his phone while swiping | 19:56 | |
| antman8969 | real men have huge thumbs, duh | 19:56 |
| alterego | I've already dropped it twice .. | 19:57 |
| djszapi_ | it has nothing to do with size... | 19:57 |
| fiferboy | That's what she said | 19:57 |
| djszapi_ | one finger presses the button, the other one swipes, that is | 19:57 |
| antman8969 | alterego I dropped mine on pavement, now there are silver scratches along the top facing me... it's horrible | 19:57 |
| djszapi_ | and you can still keep the phone in the meantime, I see zero issue | 19:57 |
| antman8969 | I color them in with permanent marker every day | 19:58 |
| lardman | yeah I reckon it's because I'm touching the bottom of the phone at the same time with my palm | 19:58 |
| *** berndhs has joined #harmattan | 19:58 | |
| lcuk | lardman, are you a lefty? | 20:00 |
| lardman | no righthanded | 20:00 |
| djszapi_ | it is even simplier for left handed actually. | 20:00 |
| lardman | thumb on right, index finger on switch, other three on left | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | I can confirm lardman's problem | 20:01 |
| lcuk | lardman, on the switch? | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | thumb-swiping right-to-left makes me accidentally touch the phone in two places at once, which aborts the swipe | 20:01 |
| lardman | djszapi_: yes, left handed is very easy | 20:01 |
| lcuk | i thought double tap unlocked | 20:01 |
| lardman | mgedmin: same here | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | unless I arch my thumb in a rather unnatural way and am very very careful | 20:01 |
| lardman | lcuk: then it unlocks when I pick it up though, so I've disabled that | 20:01 |
| lcuk | right | 20:01 |
| *** tbf has quit IRC | 20:01 | |
| lcuk | djszapi_, do you use the double tap unlock | 20:02 |
| lcuk | or try to reach for the button | 20:02 |
| lcuk | I think that might be the reason | 20:02 |
| djszapi_ | lcuk read back | 20:02 |
| lardman | back to qml, does one need to set height and width or will the components/items auto fit their contents? | 20:03 |
| djszapi_ | lcuk: it is very either way anyway | 20:03 |
| djszapi_ | even with just one finger, really :) | 20:03 |
| djszapi_ | very easy* | 20:03 |
| djszapi_ | lardman: it does not fill out, just if you set the parent filter. | 20:06 |
| djszapi_ | or well, as usual, being explicit is a good practice really. | 20:06 |
| lardman | I can't know the sizes thought, that's my issue | 20:06 |
| lardman | e.g. of an image | 20:06 |
| lardman | s/thought/though | 20:07 |
| djszapi_ | anchors.fill: parent; | 20:07 |
| lardman | do sub-items inherit that, or do I need to set it for each item | 20:08 |
| fiferboy | lardman: You can get an image size with sourceSize, I think | 20:08 |
| lardman | fiferboy: then I need to see whether it's larger than the available space, which needs js iirc | 20:09 |
| djszapi_ | isn't there a max/min function available by default ? | 20:09 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy is right: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qml-image.html#sourceSize-prop | 20:09 |
| fiferboy | lardman: No, you can do height: Math.min(parent.height, image.sourceSize.height) or something | 20:09 |
| *** piggz_ has joined #harmattan | 20:10 | |
| lardman | ah ok | 20:10 |
| djszapi_ | height: Math.max(pix.height, textelement.height + subtextelement.height) + 10; -> This is something I did | 20:10 |
| djszapi_ | you do not even need to import anything apart from QtQuick | 20:11 |
| * lardman tries that out | 20:11 | |
| *** frinring has quit IRC | 20:11 | |
| lardman | and how do I set e.g. min height? | 20:12 |
| lardman | by setting the height: property of an item? | 20:13 |
| djszapi_ | afaik, there is no min height, but fiferboy will correct me :) | 20:13 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Do you mean you want to set the image height to some min? | 20:14 |
| djszapi_ | just use another min. I guess | 20:15 |
| lardman | Well I was thinking that some text needs a minimum size, but that it can grow if the image is too small | 20:15 |
| *** piggz_ has quit IRC | 20:16 | |
| *** piggz_ has joined #harmattan | 20:16 | |
| fiferboy | lardman: How are the text and the image laid out? | 20:20 |
| lardman | image above two lines of text | 20:21 |
| fiferboy | If you want to be fancy you could do something in your text, like font.pixelSize: (parent.height - image.height)/2 | 20:22 |
| fiferboy | But I think you are probably better off with just a fixed font size and limit the height of the image | 20:22 |
| fiferboy | Well, mysql built fine | 20:26 |
| lardman | I'll have to run the code and see what things look like I think | 20:26 |
| lardman | no idea how large the fonts need to be for example | 20:26 |
| fiferboy | Building Qt with mysql isn't going to be so easy because all the packaging for it has been removed | 20:27 |
| lardman | do we not have QtSql now? | 20:27 |
| fiferboy | lardman: If you use Label insteas of Text a sane system default is used | 20:28 |
| fiferboy | lardman: We have sqlite, but not mysql | 20:28 |
| lardman | ah ok, on both counts | 20:28 |
| * lardman clears the table (and laptop) for supper | 20:28 | |
| djszapi_ | lardman: what is wrong about sqlite ? | 20:28 |
| lardman | bbl | 20:28 |
| lardman | djszapi_: nothing, I use it quite happily | 20:29 |
| djszapi_ | right | 20:29 |
| lardman | djszapi_: you're asking the wrong person | 20:29 |
| lardman | I think lcuk was after it | 20:29 |
| fiferboy | No, it was me | 20:29 |
| lardman | ah | 20:29 |
| fiferboy | (possibly lcuk as well) | 20:29 |
| lardman | bbl anyway chaps | 20:29 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy tries to push it, but no reason for that in a simple case :) | 20:29 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 20:29 | |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I'm not pushing it anymore, I am building it myself | 20:30 |
| djszapi_ | is it really worth it ? | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | It is to me. | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | I don't want to be using my app on my Harmattan phone and not be able to send the data back to my server | 20:32 |
| djszapi_ | did you check whether the akonadi driver can manage it first ? | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | With the updated data on my server I can update all the other clients running on different platforms and have the same data everywhere | 20:33 |
| fiferboy | I did look a little bit at akonadi, but was put off by the seeming PIM focus | 20:34 |
| fiferboy | It could very well do what I want, but I already have all the code to sync my client to a mysql server | 20:34 |
| fiferboy | So first I am going to exhaust that avenue | 20:34 |
| djszapi_ | the problem is that, you will have a custom qt then | 20:34 |
| djszapi_ | so you do not go with the official qt anymore, I do not think that is too nice | 20:34 |
| fiferboy | Yes, and I would like to avoid that if possible | 20:35 |
| fiferboy | Which is why my first attempt was to have it in the system libraries :) | 20:35 |
| djszapi_ | well, provide a use case in details to me, and I can contact the SDK team. | 20:35 |
| fiferboy | But it is possible to build just the qt mysql portion and keep the rest of the system Qt libs, so I don't think this is such a big problem | 20:35 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: =D | 20:36 |
| djszapi_ | I am not quite getting your idea, but seems to be hackish. | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: My use case is to have an application that I can carry around with me (currently for birdwatching, but I also want to do the same for books, DVDs, CDs, etc) | 20:36 |
| *** slaine has quit IRC | 20:36 | |
| djszapi_ | what I was referring to is that, if it is a fundamental use case, they might have some other option. | 20:36 |
| fiferboy | The client uses and sqlite to maintain its own database, but when I get back to civilization I want to have all the changes I made sync to my desktop, my server, my tablet, my TV | 20:37 |
| fiferboy | Ok, so I want centralized data on multiple clients without the need for constant internet access | 20:37 |
| *** slaine has joined #harmattan | 20:38 | |
| djszapi_ | doesn't the mail client do such things ? | 20:38 |
| fiferboy | Yes, but I hardly think I could use IMAP or POP3 to synchronize my data - mail client is a very specialized app | 20:39 |
| fiferboy | We have means to maintain sqlite database, and that is all I need on the client side | 20:39 |
| djszapi_ | try to imagine an application on Harmattan which does similar functionality, if not... then it is probably not a common use case ... | 20:40 |
| fiferboy | The media player with DLNA, the mail client with IMAP, the contacts application with ??, | 20:41 |
| djszapi_ | but as said, it was awfully hard to manage for fremantle as well | 20:41 |
| djszapi_ | contacts are using tp imho | 20:41 |
| djszapi_ | not sure what for sync purposes | 20:42 |
| lcuk | djszapi_, the mysql plugin is just another database adapter to qt core connectivity. it was there previously and since it afaik is not broken could be included still | 20:42 |
| djszapi_ | lcuk: I think you are basically wrong | 20:42 |
| djszapi_ | it was not there for fremantle either, and it was a stroke of hack to get it managed. | 20:42 |
| fiferboy | I don't want or need a mysql server on the device, I just want to be able to talk with remote servers | 20:42 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: well, if harmattan applications manage it differently, I see exactly zero reason why they would support mysql | 20:43 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: The community port of Qt for Fremantle had it without problems | 20:43 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/libqt4-sql-mysql/ | 20:43 |
| djszapi_ | community port can do anything, that has nothing to do with the platform. | 20:43 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: But what method are they providing for thrid party applications to do the same? | 20:43 |
| djszapi_ | it is a very weak and invalid argument :) | 20:43 |
| fiferboy | Does every application need to implement its own method? | 20:44 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: that is what I told you, go figure out | 20:44 |
| djszapi_ | how they manage similar situations. | 20:44 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, yes | 20:44 |
| djszapi_ | lcuk: I know my friend did it. | 20:44 |
| lcuk | each app must include its own kernel ;) | 20:44 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I will just ship my own version of Qt that only my program uses | 20:45 |
| *** harbaum has joined #harmattan | 20:45 | |
| lcuk | :D | 20:45 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, now you are thinking with portals! | 20:45 |
| djszapi_ | and I told you quite a few hours ago, it was a pita. | 20:45 |
| djszapi_ | so thanks for confirming :) | 20:45 |
| djszapi_ | and since the platform apparently does not need it, I see exactly zero reason why the platform sdk should provide it. | 20:45 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: not a mature habit | 20:45 |
| djszapi_ | but ok for me, if that is what you want to :) | 20:45 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I am just frustrated | 20:46 |
| lcuk | djszapi_, I believe his tongue was in his cheek | 20:46 |
| fiferboy | I thought the point of having a library in the platform SDK was so that applications could use it | 20:46 |
| djszapi_ | :D :D :D | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | noooooo. | 20:47 |
| fiferboy | I am not sure I understand why they would remove part of the Qt libraries | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | it is not a wishlist for everybody. | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | it is called platform SDK | 20:47 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I am not talking about adding an arbitrary library, but about not removing part of the core system | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | what you are just saying is that they should do all the community stuff which is obviously wrong | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | core system what ? | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | it is not the part of the Harmattan system | 20:48 |
| fiferboy | No, I am talking about giving us a full version of Qt instead of an *almost* full version | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | I highly disagree | 20:49 |
| fiferboy | The only issue here is that it is so hard to do on the community side because it was left out | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | next step would be to provide full qt-doc on the device, no it is no go | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | this is an embedded device with a software designed for embedded usage | 20:49 |
| fiferboy | I never said it had to be installed by default, just available for use | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | I seriously see zero point in extra work that they do not require. | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | they had to port mysql which is a pita as said gazillion times. | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | and since they do not need it in the platform, it is really pointless work | 20:51 |
| GAN900 | It's not an embedded device by any stretch of the term. | 20:52 |
| GAN900 | I've got laptops lying around with less juice. | 20:52 |
| lcuk | djszapi_, the work is mostly in saying it is hard work - it just built happily on default harmattan system according to fiferboy ! | 20:52 |
| lcuk | but I do understand why it is not there | 20:53 |
| * lcuk goes for tea | 20:53 | |
| djszapi_ | lcuk: yes, of course my friend lied | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | thanks, kindly. | 20:53 |
| * alterego is having curreh tonight .. | 20:53 | |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: what will be the next wishlist, the kernel is outdated ? :D | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | and you need some bleeding edge patch integrated asap ? :) | 20:54 |
| djszapi_ | it is exactly the same case | 20:54 |
| lcuk | djszapi_, he already said he will include qt5 in his app! | 20:54 |
| alterego | What's so great about BT 4? | 20:55 |
| GAN900 | Slippery slope! Slippery slope! | 20:55 |
| GAN900 | Before you know it they'll want Wikipedia in 200 languages!!! | 20:55 |
| GAN900 | Where will it end?! | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | alterego, autoconfigures adhoc wifi and nfc. | 20:56 |
| *** wazd has joined #harmattan | 20:56 | |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I'm just not sure how I could provide a use case that you would find suitable | 20:56 |
| djszapi_ | lcuk: I know lcuk, you are so master, and my friend was too silly to do it easily for fremantle, thanks kindly! | 20:56 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: ok I'm up :P | 20:56 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: well, I would make a research if I were you first, seriously. | 20:57 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: The mysql I just compiled was likely the version your friend did :) | 20:57 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: to know the exact situation how these things work in other application. I would not try to make a community Qt first immediately. | 20:57 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: remember when I told you today, it was going to be much easier for Harmattan | 20:58 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: but yes, indeed it was a pita for fremantle. | 20:58 |
| fiferboy | I don't doubt it, it took much longer to compile than I figured | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: anyway, you can see that it is not a wishlist matter. Same could happen with almost anything that is truncated starting from the kernel.. | 21:03 |
| *** RzR950 has joined #harmattan | 21:04 | |
| *** piggz_ has quit IRC | 21:04 | |
| fiferboy | I would say it is a wishlist matter - anything could be added to the wishlist. But from what you say it is not a wish that has a good chance of being accepted | 21:06 |
| fiferboy | Which is fine, any package could be rejected | 21:06 |
| fiferboy | My issue is trying to get at least a consideration, and you say you see no reason it should be included | 21:07 |
| fiferboy | So, either I can find another way to do what I want, build it myself, or keep bugging people who might want it as well :) | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | not really. | 21:10 |
| djszapi_ | this should not realy happen right now. You should just check out the state of art, that is | 21:10 |
| djszapi_ | and when you have clear idea about the platform regarding this, you can think further on. | 21:10 |
| fiferboy | I am looking for a suitable alternative without success so far | 21:11 |
| fiferboy | I have found the contact sync framework :) | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | fiferboy: for qt mysql.. build the qt package with it enabled and ship only the mysql plugin | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | it should be api/abi compatible | 21:11 |
| fiferboy | Stskeeps: I am looking at the Fremantle code for the package that did just that | 21:12 |
| RzR950 | djszapi_, chatter did build thx | 21:12 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: without success after 1-2 hours ? :) | 21:18 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: Haven't started that one yet | 21:20 |
| fiferboy | I was looking at the supplied Qt source first to see what was there | 21:20 |
| aapo | Ok, simple GTK hello-world running on N950 (gtk-2.14.7, same than on Fremantle). I accidentally build documentation too, and it took 259min | 21:21 |
| *** tbf has joined #harmattan | 21:28 | |
| *** antman8969 has quit IRC | 21:30 | |
| *** mikhas has quit IRC | 21:39 | |
| *** harbaum has quit IRC | 21:44 | |
| fiferboy | Qt with MySQL is building :) | 21:50 |
| fiferboy | (This is going to take a while) | 21:50 |
| faenil | :) | 21:50 |
| *** Teo` has quit IRC | 21:53 | |
| *** mzanetti_ has quit IRC | 21:53 | |
| *** Stskeeps has quit IRC | 21:54 | |
| *** Teo` has joined #harmattan | 21:54 | |
| *** Stskeeps has joined #harmattan | 21:59 | |
| *** Stskeeps has joined #harmattan | 21:59 | |
| *** smoku has joined #harmattan | 22:08 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 22:21 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 22:34 | |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 22:34 | |
| *** lcuk has joined #harmattan | 22:34 | |
| fiferboy | 50 minutes to generate the makefiles | 22:41 |
| * fiferboy needs a faster machine | 22:41 | |
| djszapi_ | scratchboxy ? | 22:41 |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 22:42 | |
| fiferboy | Yeah | 22:42 |
| fiferboy | It probably isn't going to build :( | 22:43 |
| fiferboy | I forgot to take out webkit and a bunch of other stuff I don't need | 22:43 |
| djszapi_ | I think qt is smaller than kdelibs, but I am not sure | 22:43 |
| djszapi_ | at least the build time was shorter on Windows somehow. | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | so who's still thinking the back cover of N950 is alu? | 22:44 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: Can you get kdelibs to build in scratchbox? | 22:45 |
| djszapi_ | sure | 22:46 |
| fiferboy | Then there is hope for me :) | 22:46 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: I am almost pretty sure, it will not work out on c-obs | 22:47 |
| fiferboy | I know I had trouble with Qt on Diablo(?) in scratchbox | 22:47 |
| wazd | DocScrutinizer: me? :) | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | wazd: you opened it? | 22:50 |
| wazd | DocScrutinizer: Nooooooo, Me? Nooooo, never! (wink) :D | 22:50 |
| wazd | DocScrutinizer: it sounds like a metal to me for sure | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | tactile, acoustic and optic is like plastic on the inside | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp the obvious moulding is 100% indicator for plastic | 22:53 |
| *** lcuk has quit IRC | 22:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, triangle with >AL< | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | never seen alu that's so much feeling and looking like plastic | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | the ends have a triangle with >PC+ABS< | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops I scratched it ;-P | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | no there's no more denying - it's metal | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | now* | 23:00 |
| wazd | DocScrutinizer: :) | 23:00 |
| fiferboy | Oo, sql is building! | 23:10 |
| fiferboy | Oh, I have to wait until plugins are built :( | 23:18 |
| *** mece has quit IRC | 23:19 | |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: head up :) | 23:22 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: At least my battery is charged enough to survive the drive home while compiling :) | 23:22 |
| fiferboy | Just have to make sure auto-suspend is turned off.. | 23:22 |
| djszapi_ | which city are you live in ? | 23:22 |
| fiferboy | I'm in Canada, near Toronto | 23:25 |
| djszapi_ | Canada is a great place :) | 23:25 |
| fiferboy | I think so! | 23:26 |
| fiferboy | Just don't tell rm_work that... | 23:26 |
| rm_work | WUT | 23:32 |
| fiferboy | rm_work: Um, we weren't talking about Canada >_> | 23:34 |
| GAN900 | Canada is just the USA's hat | 23:36 |
| GAN900 | and hats are silly. | 23:36 |
| rm_work | indeed. | 23:36 |
| rm_work | well, silly hats are silly. | 23:36 |
| GAN900 | Anachronistic and strange. | 23:36 |
| * rm_work puts on his srs bsns hat | 23:36 | |
| fiferboy | GAN900: What does that make Alaska? | 23:38 |
| GAN900 | The feather | 23:38 |
| fiferboy | Ok :( | 23:38 |
| berndhs | my n950 says it's 225x117 millimeters | 23:39 |
| berndhs | fishing is popular in Finnland ? | 23:39 |
| djszapi_ | Finland* | 23:40 |
| berndhs | there too :) | 23:41 |
| djszapi_ | it is populer during the very short good weather, I would say. | 23:41 |
| djszapi_ | popular* | 23:41 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: I do not understand few things in the snake qml example. | 23:41 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: Oh? | 23:42 |
| djszapi_ | it uses a "variable" called "direction" without var usage in fact. | 23:42 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: Link? | 23:42 |
| djszapi_ | I thought you need to pass it as an argument or declarate it by using "var", but I do not see anything like that | 23:42 |
| djszapi_ | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/demos-declarative-snake-content-snake-js.html | 23:42 |
| djszapi_ | declare* | 23:43 |
| djszapi_ | actually, the same situation around the "state" and other "variables". | 23:46 |
| djszapi_ | I think I am lacking something about the javascript features. | 23:46 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I believe that is reference to properties declared in the QML | 23:46 |
| fiferboy | In snake.qml there is "property int direction" | 23:47 |
| djszapi_ | ahhh true. I was not in the projectroot while making the grep | 23:48 |
| djszapi_ | mmm, it is much easier by using Gluon ;-) | 23:49 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: so what is the restriction of using QML properties from a javascript function, if any ? Can you use it from a javascript file if the qml is in a sibling subfolder ? | 23:50 |
| djszapi_ | or even more nested relationship between the qml and javascript file. | 23:51 |
| fiferboy | djszapi_: I think as long as the javascript file is imported in the QML you can use it | 23:51 |
| djszapi_ | fiferboy: btw http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/desktop-summit-akademy-guadec-group-photo-2011.html | 23:56 |
| fiferboy | Do I know anyone there? | 23:58 |
| *** MohammadAG has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
| *** MohammadAG has joined #harmattan | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
