IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-08-17

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VenemoMohammadAG, ping01:18
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ajalkaneI'm getting on device "ReferenceError: Can't find variable UiConstants". Yet I see it in qt-components sources and in the QmlExamplesGallery source it is used. Is it missing from N950 firmware and anyone know if it's going to be on the shipper firmware?02:14
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Venemo_N950ajalkane, it's in /usr/lib/qt4/whatever03:02
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ajalkaneVenemo_N950: I know it's in the meego plugin library... but it doesn't seem to be usable on device. Do I need to add some library to .pro for it to work on device? I only have declarative so far.03:03
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Venemo_N950ajalkane, you can't use it from your own code03:07
ajalkaneVenemo_N950: argh... ok thx, I'll just use hacked up UIConstants.js then.03:08
Venemomost of the values from it are available in PlatformStyle properties03:08
Venemobut if you want, you can always copy-paste UIConstants.js to your own project03:09
ajalkaneyeah that's what I'm doing right now, feels dirty03:09
ajalkanewell, off to sleep03:11
Venemosleep well:)03:13
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MohammadAGVenemo, pong03:56
MohammadAGUIConstants.js will be in the next version/update/whatever03:57
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, have you tried IRC Chatter?03:58
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MohammadAGVenemo_N950, not yet, I need a secure connection03:59
Venemo_N950it supports ssl03:59
Venemo_N950isn't that good enough?04:00
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, but this is not what I pinged you for.04:02
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, I wanted to talk to you about memory usage of qml apps. do you remember your findings from back then?04:03
MohammadAGVenemo_N950, custom port04:03
MohammadAGYeah, QML rapes memory04:03
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, you can also set a custom port04:03
MohammadAGoh goody04:04
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, that is what I thought too... but I'd like to know how you measured memory usage04:04
MohammadAGthe more the memory usage the more the N900 sucks04:05
MohammadAGwhen using QML apps, the N900 is top on the list of things that suck04:05
MohammadAGso as you can see from my model, my measurements are very accurate and precise04:05
Venemo_N950so anyway, how did you measure it?04:05
ieatlintvalgrind i think can give some info on memory usage04:06
MohammadAGVenemo_N950, not in an accurate way04:06
Venemo_N950did you use top?04:06
MohammadAGqmltube, 12MBs at startup, full mediaplayer (OMP) - QWidgets, 9MBs04:07
MohammadAGmediaplayer was in use04:07
Venemo_N950then it's time to break your theory04:07
Venemo_N950I've just found out that top lies about memory usage04:07
MohammadAGThe device swapping like shit doesn't04:08
Venemo_N950top counts in the memory that's in fact libs, not your app04:08
MohammadAGlibs take up memory04:08
Venemo_N950SpeedEvil gave me a tool called smem which can measure how much memory is in fact used04:09
Venemo_N950IRC Chatter uses about 80M (same as the QML facebook app)04:10
MohammadAGHOLY SHIT04:10
Venemo_N950only around 30M of that is actually mapped by its process.04:10
MohammadAGthat's a lot04:10
Venemo_N950and the same stands for the facebook app04:10
MohammadAGstill, that's a lot04:11
MohammadAGyou don't get 1GBs of RAM to rape them04:11
MohammadAGI expect 1GB of RAM to work better than the 256MBs in the N900, not worse04:11
Venemo_N950and it works better04:11
MohammadAGit doesn't if an app is using 30MBs!04:11
MohammadAGXChat uses 1.1MBs here04:12
Venemo_N950well, qml is still qml04:12
Venemo_N950I'll try just because I can, launching my app without any gui04:13
Venemo_N950to see how much memory actually goes to qml04:13
ieatlint30mb is excessive, but that's the way of high level languages04:13
ieatlintthe idea is to throw more hardware at it04:13
ieatlint30mb is nothing in the scheme of things... how often are you running 10 apps at once? because if you were, at that rate, it'd take 30% of your ram04:14
Venemo_N950but the good news is that it does not have a memory leak.04:14
DocScrutinizerprobably we'll still see a device that's short on RAM and slow like molasses, despite it has 4 times the RAM and 3 times the CPU clock of my prev laptop that ran a full fledged KDE with a bit of slowness on loading full openoffice but was OKish otherwise04:14
ieatlintand unfortunately everything is going that way :(04:14
Venemo_N950even after SpeedEvil ran it for 12 hours, it didn't go above 35M.04:15
Venemo_N950it was also 35M when I ran it for a couple of hours04:15
Venemo_N950well there is a gig of ram here, so I don't care the slightest... however tomorrow I will see how much really goes to qml.04:16
ieatlintit's just unpleasant to think that we could run this with widgets... thrown down ~50-80mb ram for the widget libraries used by all apps and the desktop manager, and then your app uses a handful of MBs ram04:17
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ieatlintqml is running everything through a javascript engine and qgraphicsview04:17
Venemo_N950ieatlint, maybe some optimalizations are possible for qml.04:17
ieatlintthere's going to be a lot of overhead, including ram and cpu04:17
DocScrutinizerhonestly I don't get it how a few 100k of lazy programmers can consider it's ok they force some BILLIONS of users to buy an additional few gigabytes of RAM each, so the lazy sloppy code of those few programmers has enough space to run04:18
Venemo_N950well... don't blame me, I just used the recommended toolkit.04:19
DocScrutinizerI know04:19
DocScrutinizerdon't blame you :-)04:19
Venemo_N950and I was not lazy either04:19
Venemo_N950I even investigated a defect in the QML textarea and eliminated it from my app04:20
Venemo_N950if you let it have a very large text, it will rape the cpu04:20
ieatlintyeah... nokia made their bed04:21
Venemo_N950so every time it has more than 300 lines, I delete the last 10004:22
DocScrutinizeryeah, it's actually worse: it's not a few 100k of developers, it's a few 1000s of system architects that are that arrogant to think it doesn't matter if the toolkits and libs and sh*te they decide to deploy and promote are eating <1 or >100MB for same task04:22
Venemo_N950but there is hope for them yet, because they (Qt guys) are willing to improve upon this04:23
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Venemo_N950I remember the first releases of WPF and XAml04:24
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Venemo_N950MS didn't even bother to make all the fancyness hw accelerated04:24
Venemo_N950you can imagine how a wpf app ran on a pentium 3... lol.04:25
Venemo_N950qml is at least hw accelerated04:25
Venemo_N950but I still think that qml should be compiled into native code04:27
Venemo_N950that would save a lot of overhead04:27
Venemo_N950well anyway04:29
Venemo_N950good night folks :)04:29
Venemo_N950will talk to you in the morning04:29
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MohammadAGa gig of ram?04:45
MohammadAGthere's only 250MBs free or something04:45
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npmMohammadAG: use htop(1)06:23
npmre: MohammadAG> qmltube, 12MBs at startup -- curious if you have comments on why cutetube-qml is even larger at startup ( )06:25
npmsee for htop(1) in action, and useful link06:26
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MohammadAGnpm, I was talking Maemo 5 :)06:49
hiemanshuhey MohammadAG06:50
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denismdoes anybody know - when 29-3 image will be available for N950 (or later one)? My app is removed from Ovi Store due to some changes in "public N9 version 29-3"07:55
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SpeedEvilI wonder if it's a competitor to inbuilt apps.07:56
SpeedEvilWhat was it?07:56
SpeedEvilAnd it has been claimed - I'm unsure if this has been stated 'officially'' - that there wil be new firmware at the time of teh n907:56
denismSpeedEvil: no, it is not a competitor :) it is very simple "password manager" :) Just a test app to check what exactly is required and so on07:57
denismeven not "password manager" but "password generator" :)07:57
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denismok thank you, I have to wait.07:58
dm8tbrSpeedEvil: I'd sure hope that the sales firmware of the N9 comes to N950 too07:58
dm8tbrSpeedEvil: after all they expect people to write software for the sales firmware on those07:58
SpeedEvilThere have been commendt shtat there have been UI changes - which they probably don't want to leak.07:59
dm8tbrdenism: you're not alone, matrixx got feedback from ovi QA that 'it works on n950 but just doesn't on N9 with wk28 firmware'07:59
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mecewho owns
hiemanshumece: check http://who.is09:22
w00t_Registrant Name:Ruecker Thomas B.09:22
denismwow it is dm8tbr :)09:23
meceis there a special channel where the thing is discussed/developed/planned?09:25
DocScrutinizersorry but formeego makes me think about horror movies involving giant ants09:28
meceDocScrutinizer, THEM!09:29
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mariobAynone being successfull with passing a "--splash" to the invoker. My image gets rotated 90 deg (from portrait to landscape). I've done a workaround by rotating the pic :)09:58
spenapDocScrutinizer, +1 :D09:58
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dm8tbrmece: I'm not sure, best poke x-fade I guess10:20
dm8tbrmece/denism - see bug 2053110:24
MeeGoBotBug nor, Undecided, ---, thomas.rucker, RESO FIXED, Allow usage of 'MeeGo' in the domain names and to focus community hw adapt10:24
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xarcassmariob: even people from Nokia don't know if this is proper way to make splash images. so I've also rotated portrait image10:38
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mariobxarcass: :) Well, something has to be done. A friend of mine didn't know if the app was started (he tried a couple of times) w/o splash. After I added splash he got instance feedback10:47
xarcassmariob: btw, i've noticed that screenshots are also all rotated, so i gave up and rotated my splash10:48
mariobxarcass: Maybe that explains why the default orientation for Qt meego components on the desktop is in landscape10:49
xarcassmariob: that's not obvious to me how this can be applied to desktop components. i've tested orientation-awareness of my app on desktop simply resizing main window by mouse10:52
mariobxarcass: No, not the desktop comp but the com.meego components port for Ubuntu10:53
xarcassmariob: lucky you. i don't have such luxury as having com.meego components on desktop :(10:53
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mariobxarcass: Well, there's some info about it here:
mariobxarcass: and here:
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xarcassmariob: thnx, i've seen these. the problem is that I have mac, win and suse. so i can't see a point to install ubuntu in addition to them. this will be one too many11:14
xarcassmariob: fortunately, i have n950, so i've decided to sit and wait when these components will be included in QtSDK11:15
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mariobxarcass: Ok, good call :)11:15
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ajalkaneI doubt you'd have much problems compiling qt-components on Suse11:29
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xarcassi haven't managed to install maemo sdk there (i've tried real hard), that's why i even gave my n900 away (to my former wife). so now i don't want even to begin all this again. well, call me lazy if you like :)11:38
ajalkaneI won't call you that. I'd also give up after trying real hard :P11:43
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alteregoxarcass: install ubuntu12:01
alteregoOr use it in a vm12:01
ieatlintor decide if you need the harmattan sdk12:02
ieatlintif you're just doing qt, the qt sdk will include a harmattan toolchain12:02
ieatlintand it works on all 3 OSs you mentioned12:02
xarcassyeah, i know that. I use SDK from feb this year almost every day. my app is even to be included in firmware ( i hope i manage to complete it ), so there's no problem. it's rather inconvenient that i cannot run my app without the device, but i got used to this already12:04
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ieatlintif only we were all so lucky12:05
xarcasscorrection: it will be not in the firmware itself, it will be 'preinstalled' on the N9 in our region12:06
ieatlintconsider yourself fortunate that the n9 will be released in your region :P12:07
ieatlinti'm stuck trying to import one12:07
alteregoYeah, I think I might buy onw qhilat I'm in the states next month12:08
alteregoWill be cheaper than getting one here in the UK12:08
ieatlintno announced importers here in the states though12:09
xarcassthey even claimed to release N9 two days from now, but previous week they've  said that release is delayed12:09
alteregoI heard had some12:10
ieatlintthat was widely reported, but if you actually looked at the link you'd notice two things... first that it was selling for SIGNIFICANTLY less than stores abroad, and second that it was being sold by an amazon affiliate -- an affiliate that was created just to sell that phone and had no previous sales12:11
ieatlintand if you look at the link now, you'll notice that the affiliate has disappeared, and simply says the product is unavailable12:11
ieatlint for a refresher12:12
ieatlintthere'll be a distributor i bet, but none so far12:13
alteregoMaybe I'll nip over to finland and pick one up there ;)12:14
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ieatlinti'm hoping nokia will make it available it developers12:15
kimju"back in stock"12:15
ieatlintsave me a lot of effort12:15
kimjuback? :)12:15
alteregoSo, Nokia do N950 make it ridiculously hard to obtain, pisses off the general folk. Nokia develop N9 make it ridiculously hard to obtain for the majority that care for the platform.12:16
* alterego sighs12:16
mikhasNokia wants you to buy iPhones12:16
mikhasjust give in already12:16
ieatlinti still don't get why nokia is even releasing this phone12:16
ieatlintwas it some sort of contract obligation or what?12:16
alteregoN9 os unicorn blood, and N950 is tiger blood12:16
mikhasieatlint, recoup of investments12:16
ieatlintmikhas: i'm unconvinced12:17
alteregoieatlint: I'm sure there were many reasons12:17
mikhaswell, then take the rumors12:17
ieatlinti doubt they'll come close to breaking even12:17
mikhasit was required that Nokia ships one MeeGo phone, by the Intel-Nokia deal12:17
ieatlintreleasing a 600EUR phone in half a dozen countries, avoiding major ones like the UK and Germany does not scream big sales12:17
mikhasalso, it all starts to make sense once you stop seeing Nokia as one entity12:18
mikhasbut rather a hydra12:18
mikhaswhere each head has its own will12:18
ieatlintyeah, maybe, but given the investment they've made in the platform since february, and the potential confusion to consumers, that also seems weird12:18
ieatlintif any contract did have that requirement, there'd be a specified penalty for failing... that penalty would likely be cheaper12:19
mikhasSo you're saying Nokia doesn't make any sense to you?12:19
mikhasTrust me, you are not alone.12:19
ieatlintand yeah, i've heard a lot of stories about how bad the management there is, with one hand not knowing what the other is doing12:19
ieatlintdealt with some of it first hand12:19
ieatlintnokia is bizarre :P12:20
mikhasgoes for most big companies12:22
ieatlintnot nearly as bad12:22
ieatlinti've seen how several big companies work, and they don't have products and managers working against each other quite so much12:23
mikhaswell, but can you perhaps imagine how much resistance there is on the lower management levels, against this WP7 move?12:23
ieatlintconsider how much resistance i'm told there was in the symbian levels against maemo, i bet i have an idea12:24
alteregoPeople actually wanted to keep symbian at Nokia? :)12:24
ieatlinti've been told by a few bitter people that the symbian folks sabotaged maemo12:25
ieatlintand the qt effort12:25
alteregoI don't see how ..12:25
mikhasAt least Symbian division succeeded in taking both down now.12:25
ieatlintthey were due to have some success12:25
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mikhasieatlint, I think the "transition" to Qt, from Fremantle to Harmattan, was made out of stupid.12:26
alteregoThe biggest success of Symbian recently is Qt ..12:26
mikhasNokia didnt have a Maemo product for over two years due to that.12:26
ieatlinti was speaking as much of the qt support in symbian12:26
alteregomikhas: that isn't exactly true12:27
mikhasyou dont throw away a working platform and replace it at once12:27
mikhasalterego, well, I've seen the struggle12:27
mikhasit was stupid12:27
alteregoThere are other reasons that stopped Harmattan12:27
mikhasbut dont underestimate the arrogance within the Harmattan project12:27
mikhasespecially against everything Fremantle12:28
Arkenoiactually just releasing new hardware for fremantle in time would be better than whole harmattan effort12:28
alteregoWell, they've done an outstanding job imo12:28
mikhasalterego, who? the Fremantle people who later joined the Harmattan project to save it?12:28
alteregopfft, fremantle, hildon, is kinda ugly and runs like poop compared to Qt :P12:28
xarcassalterego: +102412:29
alteregomikhas: I dunno :P12:29
mikhasyou show very little understanding here of how big projects work12:29
ieatlinthildon wasn't terrible, but, but gtk really isn't the best platform to push to 3rd party devs12:29
Arkenoiif there was n900i with 1Gb RAM and no other changes it would be absolute killer one year ago12:29
alteregomikhas: I always thought it was all the same team anyway.12:29
ieatlintArkenoi: it'd have been a niche device still12:29
ieatlintfremantle just wasn't refined enough for the average consumer12:30
Arkenoiieatlint, unless harmattan MfE bugfixes were backported12:30
Arkenoiand portrait mode was implemented properly :-)12:30
alteregoArkenoi: I wouldn't have got it. And it wouldn't have been mass sold either, would have still had all the short comings the N900 has now.12:30
mikhasreally, Harmattan itself is not free of guilt here12:30
alteregoWe'd still have all thed moaning kids on tmo12:30
ieatlintqt was a good idea i think though... but yeah, QML results in such huge delays that qt is still only just arriving on symbian12:31
alteregoThere would probably have been as many sales as the wimax edition of the N810 :P12:31
SpeedEvilArkenoi: niche devices selling a sizeable slice of a million units...12:31
Arkenoialterego, from my PoV n900 had just two shortcomings (or should i say showstoppers?): MfE bugs that did not allow it to work smoothly with google and low RAM which made it damn slow12:31
Stskeepsieatlint: heh, how about the libmeegotouch/dui and orbit stuff then :)12:32
alteregoI didn't care about and don't care about the ram.12:32
alteregoMy biggest gripes are, no compass and no hdmi.12:32
ieatlintStskeeps: i heard great things about mtf...12:32
mikhasieatlint, when? in 2008?12:33
Arkenoialterego, btw i'd buy wimax edition of n810 back when it was released if there was firmware update to make it compatible with wimax networks deployed after the standard did settle down12:33
alteregovsync would be nice too. But at least we have MeeGo CE12:33
ieatlintlast year12:33
* w00t_ stares at ieatlint12:33
ieatlintalbeit from nokia guys :P12:33
Arkenoistill no hdmi in n9, cannot understand why12:33
SpeedEvilArkenoi: It's a comparatively large connector.12:34
alteregoSwome ideas behind MTF are really awesome.12:34
SpeedEvilWhich causes nasty packaging issues.12:34
alteregoBut those ideas are doable in QML now.12:34
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, it is there on e7 and that's just ok12:34
ieatlinti think nokia had some really great ideas, and some truly poor followthrough12:34
alteregoSo MTF is kinda redundant, except for a few helper classes when accessing gconf :P12:34
ieatlintmtf also has some stuff for accessing bits on harmattan12:35
ieatlintthe camera classes for instance12:35
mikhasMTF was based on the blatant lie that Qt Graphics View would be the future for UI's12:35
Arkenoido you remember 9000 communicator? it was a perfect field engineer's tool and could possibly kick the shit out of palm pilots, students could sell a kidney to boy one -- but Nokia marketed it as a manager's toy instead12:35
ieatlintisn't qml based on qgraphicsview?12:35
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w00t_it runs on top of it at the moment, but it's not entirely based around the concept of, no12:36
alteregoieatlint: it is currently, but is being replaced with qscenegraph ;)12:36
w00t_i think qt5 already has it running on top of scenegraph12:36
mikhasieatlint, Qt Graphics View is abstracted away with QML12:36
alteregoI have it running on scenegraph from a dev build, quite impressive, love the shaders in qml 2 :)12:37
mikhasIn fact, nothing would stop you from writing a cairo-based backend for QML, or whatever graphics library you like.12:37
ieatlintwho wants to take bets on us seeing a stable qt5 release? :P12:37
w00t_it's coming12:37
alteregoaround christmas :)12:37
djszapihaha nice joke :D12:37
ieatlintyeah, we'll see :P12:38
djszapiit is like c-obs is coming ... sure ... for a while.12:39
ieatlintyeah, or a qtmobility 1.2 that works...12:39
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aapoHi, what can be problem: I can't run ARM binaries *anymore* on my Scratchbox (Harmattan-ARMEL target)? It worked yesterday, but when I started computer today, it is not working.12:40
alteregoYeah, or a qt mobility 1.1 that works12:40
djszapiaapo: what is "not working" ?12:41
alteregoweb os would be good if it had QML12:41
alteregoAnd MeeGo would be good if it had web os UI :)12:41
aapodjszapi, "bash: ./hello.out: No such file or directory"12:41
sandst1aapo: try giving scratchbox a kick. "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop" and then the same with start12:42
djszapiseems talkative enough12:42
ieatlinti'm actually liking swipe a lot on harmattan12:42
ieatlinti just wish it weren't a dead end device12:42
djszapiieatlint: +++++++112:42
djszapithe new sales devices are pretty smooth, indeed for swiping.12:42
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aaposandst1, thanks I will try that12:42
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djszapior you can just use restart ;)12:43
djszapisandst1 o/ btw :)12:43
lcukmorning \o12:44
ieatlinthas anyone discovered a way to change the standby screen?12:45
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aapoWhat is situation of gtk on harmattan/N950? Is somebody doing/packaging it? I would like to test some gtk applications.12:47
djszapipackrat does not find too much things (However packrat ignores the biggest repository)12:48
lcukaapo, I have seen the c-obs building gtk packages, though not sure if it is for harmattan, let me try and see12:48
djszapilcuk that is not for harmattan, no.12:48
djszapiaapo: take a look at this one:
aapolcuk, I think I also see once cobs buildlog for gtk, but is not showing anything12:49
djszapiand this one:
aapodjszapi: gtk-doc, but no gtk?12:50
lcukaapo, it was MartinK who was building gtk stuff, I think more as a depedency for his espeak package12:51
lcukbut on his home project I cannot see it there12:51
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djszapiaapo: no clue, I just pointed you out where it /might/ be some relevant results.12:51
djszapiI am not interested in gtk stuff myself, to dig into the details more ;-)12:52
Arkenoibtw what is the point for aegis to prevent running arbitrary unregistered binaries? who the hell needs it? i doubt it can add anything to platform security (don't tell me about platform security, n900 ran forever with remote code exec hole in flash player) as i am pretty sure if anyone decides to target an attack on harmattan device it would be easily bypassed like all other techniques like that12:52
djszapimade my day ^ :)12:53
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meceJaffa, hey13:04
Jaffamece: hey13:05
meceJaffa, regarding the; is there already something running or are we only just talking about it?13:06
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Jaffamece: The code's been in development for a while (evolving from, I guess) and should be in a VCS "somewhere"; but I'm not aware of it running anywhere yet apart from apps-beta.meego.com13:10
meceJaffa, ok so the user repos is not yet in action. I'm just looking for an apt repo to put apps in so that upgrades can be conveniently seen by users. That way it would already be populated once the fancy stuff is ready13:14
Jaffamece: Home projects are definitely up and running13:14
Jaffamece: And you can use that to give people access to your development versions13:15
Jaffamece: See
djszapiieatlint: you can change the wallpaper in the settings, yes.13:15
djszapiieatlint: You can also do this: photo in gallerry and 'Set as wallpaper'.13:21
meceJaffa, ooh, nice :) I'll check that out. Thanks!13:23
* mece is making a quick weather app for the politically less correct.13:26
alteregoJaffa: did you see my QML proto for my guitar chord dictionary app? :)13:30
djszapianybody doing qml stardict frontend ?13:31
Jaffaalterego: Looks nice. Although I know *nothing* about guitar chords. Guitar Hero/Rock Band is my extent ;-)13:35
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mecealterego, WOW! WANT!13:41
alteregomece: :) thanks, it's WIP obviously but I want to get it working by the end of next week, time permitting.13:42
mecealterego, A request: Add EADGBE above the strings. Also an ukulele version would be cool :)13:43
alteregomece: I plan on doing that yeah.13:44
mecethanks :)13:45
alteregoTo have multiple tuning configurations in the future.13:45
alteregoukulele is a bit far in the future though ;)13:45
mecethen some tuning assitance included..13:45
alteregoLowest priority :P13:45
mecewell if you do bass then you might as well do ukulele13:45
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alteregomece: if there is no other guitar tuner app sure, I want to KISS first :)13:45
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meceI mean I can do the chords for you.13:46
mecealterego, righty. I have "Tuner" on N900. Perhaps it could be ported.13:46
Venemowhat kind of tuner?13:47
meceor any instrument I guess13:47
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rzr`Venemo: hi14:28
Venemohey rzr`14:28
rzr`Venemo: i failed to build i-c14:28
Venemowhy is that?14:28
rzr`/usr/src/packages/BUILD/main.cpp:53: undefined reference to `MDeclarativeCache::qApplication(int&, char**)'14:29
Venemoyou need applauncherd-dev14:29
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VenemoI added it to build dependencies14:29
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rzr`it is there14:32
rzr`but it does not link w/14:33
rzr`it miss -L ..14:33
rzr`    -L/usr/lib -lircclient-qt -lQtDeclarative -lQtGui -lQtNetwork -lQtCore -lpthread 14:33
rzr`on that line14:33
Venemonot sure why not; worksforme14:33
VenemoI honestly have no idea what may be the problem14:33
rzr`can you dpkg -L applauncherd-dev | grep .so14:34
Venemosorry, I can can't do that right now, I'm not on Linux14:35
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djszapiwell you can log into the device, and check it. That is lniux independent14:36
Venemodjszapi, the -dev package is definitely not installed on the device14:36
djszapioh no sorry, since it is dev, I am wrong.14:36
djszapion my device, actually it is installed14:37
djszapinot sure why.14:37
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Venemonot installed on my device djszapi14:38
djszapi[sbox-maemo6-armv7: /scratchbox/users/lpapp/home/lpapp/cups] > dpkg -L applauncherd-dev | grep .so14:38
djszapi[sbox-maemo6-armv7: /scratchbox/users/lpapp/home/lpapp/cups] >14:38
djszapirzr` ^14:38
Venemoso where is the .so?14:38
VenemoI just use MDeclarativeCache, as described in
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djszapithat is just a convenience include..14:40
djszapicat /usr/include/applauncherd/MDeclarativeCache14:40
djszapi#include "mdeclarativecache.h"14:40
Venemoyeah, that's it14:40
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VenemoI use #include <MDeclarativeCache> but don't think that's the issue here14:40
Venemoit builds fine for me.14:40
rzr`include is ok14:41
rzr`link is not14:41
rzr`maybe i should push some package from h:r:h to h:r14:41
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Venemothis is weird.14:42
djszapithat is probably good for hiding the issue silently. The dependency should probably be fixed.14:42
Venemodjszapi, do you happen to know what dependency needs to be added?14:42
djszapino clue, nor care :)14:42
rzr`can you dpkg -L applauncherd | grep .so14:43
Venemofair enough14:43
djszapiWhat I would do if I were you is that, I would compare the gcc/g++ lines...14:43
Venemorzr`, tried, no result14:43
rzr`qmake-qt4 || qmake14:43
rzr`/bin/sh: pkg-config: command not found14:43
rzr`that one too14:43
Venemopkg-config not found?14:43
djszapiapplauncher indeed uses pkg-config14:43
djszapithat might be the missing dependency...14:43
mariobrzr`: Have you created a harmattan project from QtCreator?14:44
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Venemomight be possible14:44
djszapirzr` should just add it and try, I guess14:44
rzr`just depends to it14:44
djszapipkg-config is not nice way of doing things.... /me dislikes it.14:44
Venemodjszapi, what is a nice way in your opinion?14:45
rzr`do you prefer autofool ?14:45
djszapino, I do not.14:45
djszapiVenemo: cmake14:45
Venemoyeah I saw many KDE projects use CMake14:45
djszapiand many non KDE projects.14:46
djszapiand maybe also Qt5 ?14:46
rzr`cmake is cool , but can be a nightmare sometime on cross compiling i'll annoy you djszapi14:46
Venemodjszapi, what's wrong with qmake?14:46
djszapiit is actually good for cross-compiling.14:46
Venemorzr`, ok, there is a /usr/lib/, not sure how to check which package it belongs to14:46
djszapiwe have been using it in Gluon for all the platforms actually, windows, mac, linux, fremantle, meego, harmattan, what not14:46
rzr`i'll tell u , some weird error i have14:46
djszapidpkg -S14:46
djszapidpkg -S /usr/lib/libmdeclarativecache.so14:47
djszapiapplauncherd-launcher: /usr/lib/libmdeclarativecache.so14:47
rzr`veli: dpkg -S $(which file)14:47
djszapirzr`: please do not assess a tool ebcause of your misusage.14:47
rzr`that one is installed i think14:47
djszapicoming to us for help is ok.14:47
rzr`djszapi: i'll show you :)14:47
maxwI would remove all your Makefiles and regenerate them14:47
VenemoI knew how to do this with yum, but never with dpkg14:47
Tronicrzr`: CMake is actually quite nice for cross-compiling, at least on *nix.14:48
rzr`tell us how you do it the rpm way ?14:48
djszapiTronic: also on windows from what I can say.14:49
Venemoso, what is wrong with qmake?14:49
Venemoworked for me14:49
djszapisure it works for tiny projects to a certain extent.14:49
djszapithat is not really the primary use case of cmake.14:50
Venemomost of my Qt projects are tiny, so no problems there14:50
* rzr` is building pkg-config14:50
djszapirzr`: pkg-config is available by default...14:50
djszapinot sure what you build and why.14:50
TronicVenemo: It doesn't have its own package detection system.14:51
VenemoTronic, why would it need to have that?14:51
TronicVenemo: Because pkg-config doesn't port well.14:51
mariobI would like to have something like maven as build system for Qt14:52
Venemowell it has something called "mkspecs" which works on all platforms, whatever14:52
djszapiVenemo: just some random tool, you might want to read:14:52
djszapicpack, cdash, ctest14:52
Venemowell, I need to get some lunch, talk to you later14:52
djszapido not make overhead for yourself :D14:53
djszapiVenemo: show me how I can create packages so easily with qmake, how I can organize bigger projects like Gluon, how I can have a build server with proper test reports. Show me how easily I can embed tests and so on, please.14:54
Venemoas I said, all my projects are tiny.14:55
VenemoI have no idea how to manage large Qt-based projects.14:55
djszapibut you wanna provide packages ?14:55
djszapiyou wanna test it ?14:55
djszapiyou wanna build it correctly even tiny projects ?14:55
VenemoI don't know14:55
VenemoI think14:55
Venemosorry, /me is having a VERY bad day (unrelated to the discussion here, but I still feel terrible).14:56
Venemoso, out to lunch, ttyl.14:56
mariobdjszapi: I'm interested... What I want is to break up my project in small libraries which are easier to test and the same for the UI with QML for each platform. Do you have any "template" project I can look at?14:56
mariobdjszapi: let me develop a bit14:57
danielsgod, more build system arguments14:57
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djszapimariob: we have 4-5 libraries in gluon and many qt/kde/qml standalones. You wanna take a look ?14:58
djszapiI have set up ctest, cdash, cpack, we even generate windows installers as well14:58
mariobdjszapi: I have a model which I want to do test for, I want a separate "project" as main which links statically to the model and then for each platform (N9, S^3) I want different UI's14:58
mariobdjszapi: yes please14:58
mariobdjszapi: thanks,,, Now I'll take a tour :)14:59
djszapinot a simple/small project, I warned you :)15:00
rzr`djszapi: thx for p-c15:00
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rZZZrVenemo: build may start , i am gone, btw ping me if you add the "action on event" feature ~ ie connnect( onServerConnected, sendMessage( $msg ) )15:06
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alteregorZZZr: could you build sqlite3?15:15
alteregoThe command :)15:15
djszapisqlite3 is available by default.15:16
alteregoCan't find the command ..15:16
alteregoJust libsqlite315:16
alteregoHrm, is that repo installed by default?15:17
lcuki thought qt had database stuff built in?15:17
alteregoIt does, I want to poke around form the command line15:17
djszapialterego: that might be another Nokia SDK team fail.15:18
djszapiI am poking them right now...15:18
xarcassalterego: +512, I also miss CLI utility on the device, it's annoying every time scp db file to the host15:19
mikhasmariob, good luck with that15:19
mikhasif you planned using the Qt SDK, you can forget about libraries just now.15:19
djszapimikhas: who cares about Qt SDK :p15:19
mikhasyeah well .15:20
djszapibut yeah, that might be true...15:20
mikhasit is used, sadly15:20
mikhaseven though MADDE doesnt get debian packaging right :-(15:20
meceI use both qtsdk an scratchbox15:20
mecedepends on what I wanna do15:20
djszapimikhas: I use sb and everything manually15:20
djszapiI trust myself more than that sdk tbh :)15:20
mikhasdjszapi, sure15:20
djszapiand this way, everything is under my control, I can also use cmake and o ther things nciely.15:21
djszapiwhich is limited in the SDK15:21
mikhasand then I got burned when others wanted to hack on my project15:21
mikhasthey use Qt SDK, I use sbox15:21
mikhasgood bye sanity15:21
mikhasright, Qt SDK only knows qmake …15:21
meceqtsdk is quite nice for writing some quick qml app15:21
djszapimikhas: qmake is one of the those things I do not like about Qt :p15:21
mikhasmece, did you say fart app?15:21
djszapiand I think it is not nice they do not implement cmake backend feature.15:22
djszapijust like kdevelop did with qmake.15:22
mikhasdjszapi, our company's been working on an autotools backend for Qt Creator15:22
mikhasit's a lot of pain15:22
djszapialterego: anyways, thanks for pointing this bug out. It is really not nice.15:22
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mecemikhas, I don't know how to do sound15:22
djszapiSDK team needs to fix it asap just like the libarchive bug15:22
alteregodjszapi: thanks :)15:22
mikhasbut I suggest someone else checks our plugin and does the same for a cmake backend15:22
mikhasmece, eat beans15:23
djszapiPatricia works on autotools15:23
mikhaslots of beans15:23
mecemikhas, I'm working on my weather app for profanity enthusiasts :)15:23
mikhasdjszapi, yap15:23
mikhasand before that, it was Peter Penz15:23
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mecemikhas, made a logo and everything :)
mikhasboth from our company =p15:23
meceerm icon that is15:23
mikhasmece, how do you call it? "Fucking Shit Weather Today"?15:24
djszapimikhas: I love Patricia :D15:25
djszapiI forgot some of my duties during DS because of drinking, but she was not so upset :p15:26
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djszapialterego: I dislike the SDK team seriously.15:29
mgoetzQML question.. I'm using a PageStackWindow. Is the QML supposed to rotate when i click the rotate button in QEMU?15:29
djszapithey are against the idea to provide the sqlite3 binary :(15:29
alteregomost people do :P15:30
djszapiit makes zero sense15:30
djszapisince the source is either unneccesarily and they just build as debian do (copy/paste)15:30
djszapithey should just well publish it as well15:30
mecemikhas, no, The Fucking Weather15:31
mikhasin all possible meanings?15:31
mecewell one can interpret as they choose15:32
djszapialterego: why do we need sqlite3 ?15:32
djszapitell me some persuading reason, that a manager can eat.15:32
djszapisome very silly manager :)15:32
mikhasit's part of the Harmattan, no?15:33
mikhasdue to tracker15:33
mikhasso it really needs to be in the SDK15:33
seifguys when is the next update15:33
djszapimikhas: I will send you the internal bugreport I am just opening15:33
djszapiyou can "vote" :)15:33
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alteregoWell, I just want it to poke around in the databases, I can't think of a compelling mangerial reason for it ;)15:33
djszapiwell, I think it is a silly question from the manager why we want15:34
djszapibecause it is the part of the package, just like the libraries, that is15:34
alteregoBut it is extremely useful when developing apps that use database backends15:34
djszapiand much more important than other packages which are already available...15:34
djszapibut there is no ultimate silly manager reason...15:34
alteregoTell him if we don't have it the universe will end.15:35
meceI'm out. tata15:35
npmdjszapi: SQLite is also used by Qt ..  e.g. ~/.local/share/data/QML/OfflineStorage/Databases/15:35
xarcassdjszapi: well, when I did server development, we have a practice to supply sql scripts with the package, so we can execute it during installation. that's the reason15:35
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djszapior the rumour says who do not push sqlite3 into the sdk will not get bread in the shop :)15:35
djszapinpm: no, the cli frontend is not15:36
npmso you can debug15:36
npmhow could i inspect existing databases?15:36
djszapiby a test qt app ?15:36
xarcassnpm: for now, scp does the trick15:37
alteregoTell the manager he can f*ck off if he thinks I'm gonna build a database manager in Qt :P15:37
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mikhasalterego, that's not how you talk with managers15:37
Stskeepsno, you have to use more swear words15:37
djszapixarcass: ok, thanks.15:37
javispedrothis kind of stuff you better just do without anyone noticing15:37
mikhasjavispedro, +115:38
djszapiit is always better if the community has lesser maintainance work15:38
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djszapiand it is ready on the Nokia side anyway, they just did not publish the package itself.15:39
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javispedrowell, just rebuild it and publish on rzr's repo15:39
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djszapijavispedro: of course not15:39
alteregoThat's what I originally asked ..15:39
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djszapithat means the maintenance on the community side15:39
djszapiwhich is not nice15:39
javispedroon early fremantle times many sdk packages were imported into extras for who knows reasons15:40
djszapiwell, actually that would well mean duplicated efforts15:40
djszapialso, what mikhas told ... if that is true, there is no other way anyways15:40
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xarcassI believe it should be included into fw, because for now, i must package xml files to initialize the database. that's really sucks. using sql-scripts would be much better15:41
DocScrutinizermece: thefuckingweather.com15:42
lcukxarcass, is this still discussion about the sqlite command line tools?15:42
djszapilcuk it is15:42
xarcassyep, did i missed something?15:42
lcukthis discussion and observation has occured with each maemo release15:42
djszapino, nothing, you are right xarcass15:43
lcukand each time it hasn't.15:43
javispedroDocScrutinizer: hey, it says it's fucking nice in Barcelona. I'd disagree.15:43
lcukmost people never need it15:43
lcukexcept those that do!15:43
djszapilcuk: apparently, you never developed things with sql.15:43
djszapior in a very weird way.15:44
lcukdjszapi, I was one of those asking15:44
xarcasslcuk: well, it may not be needed for the average fart app, but i need this utility all the time15:44
lcuki have done15:44
mariobdjszapi: Do you have any smaller and simplier cmake example for harmattan? :)15:44
javispedroit helps development15:44
lcuki was one asking for its inclusion in the past!15:44
djszapimariob: well, you just need to check the few CMakeLists.txt files out15:44
lcukjavispedro, it is in the sdk repository isnt it?15:44
djszapinot sure what could be easier :)15:44
djszapilcuk: no, it is not15:44
mariobdjszapi: ok :)15:45
javispedrobut you don't really need it for live apps on the device15:45
javispedrolcuk: nah, seemingly not.15:45
djszapijavispedro: nobody was speaking about the device ?15:45
lcukwhere is it then? I am sure I found it when needed last time15:45
djszapijavispedro: we were speaking about the repository ?15:45
javispedroon Fremantle it was on the device ;)15:45
javispedroamong other things that crappy GPL-violating "turbooptimizer" app used it to run VACUUM on each .db file it found ;)15:46
RST38hjavispedro: It did?15:46
* RST38h shudders15:47
javispedroRST38h: indeed...15:47
djszapimariob: the koffice/calligra frontend is also cmake based.15:48
djszapiI think also marble, kdelibs, kalgebra and many others.15:48
djszapialure, attica, and so forth15:48
mariobdjszapi: with support for harmattan target?15:48
DocScrutinizerI hope that turbomizer guy got appropriately dealt with in MWKN?15:48
djszapiof course15:48
povbotBug 3215: sqlite3 command-line application is not available15:50
MeeGoBotBug nor, Medium, 1.1, connie.berardi, CLOS FIXED, People: Home button does nothing15:50
lcukresolved fixed of course15:50
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I just recently helped to build a very simple script based app that needed sql interface15:50
lcukjavispedro, I must have been on diablo then!15:50
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* lcuk looks on notes15:50
lcukinfact, yeah it was just before i got n900 that I was doing sqlite stuff15:51
DocScrutinizerlcuk: was a used-minutes-warning-app15:51
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djszapialterego: heh, good and bad news. Good: they fixed it Bad: it is not available in public till the next SDK release.16:36
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fiferboydjszapi: Are you talking about the sqlite3 package?16:39
fiferboydjszapi: Could you check if there is a mysql client package that will be in the next release? :)16:40
djszapimysql makes no sense on embedded16:40
djszapibut no, it is not even available ( for that reason, probably )16:41
fiferboyIt does for syncing data with an online mysql server16:41
fiferboydjszapi: :( Thanks for checking16:41
djszapiI think this is a good decision of them16:42
djszapiBut hey, you can package anytime :)16:42
fiferboydjszapi: And probably a lot of people would agree with you, but I don't16:42
fiferboydjszapi: The problem is, I want the Qt mysql bindings, which are not available because mysql is not available16:42
fiferboyI could package mysql, but I don't want to have to rebuild qt all the time to get the bindings for new versions16:43
djszapiYou can ask for help from packager warrior :)16:43
fiferboyPackager warrior?16:43
djszapiI think it is not any different to fremantle, but at any rate...kde pim, kontact and others were also ported to sqlite, anyways.16:43
fiferboyYeah, my app uses sqlite happily, but I liked the ability to remotely backup to my mysql server and sync other clients (desktop, tablet, etc) to that16:44
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djszapiakonadi: use akonadi ?16:46
lardmanRight, pretty basic question here, should one use e.g. Page for a page of an application, or Item which the examples seem to do?16:46
fiferboydjszapi: I'll take a look at akonadi16:47
fiferboylardman: I use Page16:47
lardmangood enough for me :)16:47
fiferboylardman: I think those examples use Item because they seperate out into files16:47
fiferboyI _think_ the top level element of a Compoenent in a separate file should be Item16:48
lardmanI thought having a separate component per file was the right way to do it anyway?16:48
lardmanah ok16:48
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lardmanand what about the base "class" for the whole application? I need 3 different pages, with a toolbar thingie with tabs/buttons at the bottom16:48
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fiferboylardman: PageStack16:49
lardmanThis is not stacked windows though, they are all parallel16:49
fiferboyParallel windows?16:49
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lardmanor is that still the way to do it16:49
lardmanparallel level16:49
lardmancan switch from any one to another16:49
fiferboyYeah, you can still use PageStack to switch between them16:49
Mekand it would be PageStackWindow anyway, not PageStack I think16:49
fiferboyLooks at the page navigation example16:50
fiferboyMek: Right16:50
lardmanthere are lots of examples, too many I would say16:50
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lardmanSeems that Qt Creator gives me a PageStackWindow as default iirc16:50
rm_worklooking forward to having some time next week when i will have nothing to do and have only my laptop16:50
rm_worki'm thinking about an IMDB app16:51
rm_worktired of just porting stuff, i want to write something :P16:51
SpeedEvilWill it have a bacon number calculator?16:51
mikhasrm_work, but there is already an IMDB app16:51
rm_worki could do that :P16:51
mikhasit is called *browser*16:52
rm_worklol mikhas16:52
rm_worknative app is much faster and easier16:52
rm_workit's one of the few things i miss from android16:52
GAN900rm_work, ah, time.16:52
fiferboyYes, the Android IMDB app is nice16:52
rm_workGAN900: yeah i took a week off, am visiting my home state16:52
djszapirm_work: write a stardict frontend16:52
fiferboyrm_work: Montreal?16:52
djszapiI would love you :)16:52
rm_workfiferboy: i'm probably going to bring my G1 with me and shamelessly rip it off :P16:53
rm_workfiferboy: rofl i would kill myself >_<16:53
rm_workbut no seriously, WA16:53
GAN900Silly Pacific Northwest people.16:53
* fiferboy could use an interal dict service16:53
lardmanrm_work: If you do write an IMDB app, would you be able to provide a DBus method to open a page on a given film?16:54
rm_worklardman: i'll keep that in mind16:54
fiferboylardman: You thinking barcode integration?16:54
rm_worklardman: passing film name and doing an "i'm feeling lucky" type search?16:54
lardmanAs I'd like to farm out stuff from mBarcode-lite/etc to external apps16:54
rm_workah yes16:54
fiferboyGAN900: You know you are a Seattlite at heart16:54
rm_workso by film name? or would you have some other info16:54
lardmanwell it depends what you want, but perhaps something like title, director, actor or some combo of these16:55
rm_workI feel like just a dbus call for "open and search for X" would be suitable16:55
rm_workthat would work for movie titles, actors, etc16:55
rm_worksince the search is unfiltered by default16:55
lardmanbut from a barcode I'd be able to find the title of a DVD, and would be able to pass any of those16:56
rm_workbut i guess I could add the ability to specify a type16:56
rm_worki'll look into it16:56
lardmanrm_work: whatever you think would work for the underlying structure of IMDB16:56
lardmancool :)16:56
rm_worki'm not sure i'll get too far, since working on my last super-simple app was already so frustrating :P16:56
rm_workand i only have a couple of days16:56
rm_workbut I will try16:56
lardmannp, just a thought for the future - definitely no pressure16:57
fiferboylardman: If you add bird recognition into mbarcode, I'll put a DBus hook into my application16:57
rm_workI still haven't figured out how to get python and Qt hooked up in QtCreator16:57
rm_worklol birds16:57
lardmanfiferboy: are there any bird recognition codes out there, that is exactly what photoanalyser does16:57
lardmanbutterflies was one I was thinking of, what with the butterfly reporting drive my wife told me about over here16:58
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fiferboylardman: I don't know of any, but since you took my suggestion seriously I will take a look :)16:58
rm_workbrb meeting16:58
lardmanfiferboy: basically photoanalyser is a daemon that runs plugins on each new image saved by the camera, barcodes are currently handled, I will add a text recogniser when I have the time, but other things are certainly possible a la Google Goggles16:59
djszapififerboy: my friend told me that it was extremely hard to port mysql to fremantle.16:59
lardmanI should compile OpenCL and then see what people have written16:59
fiferboylardman: That sounds very cool16:59
lardmanis on my webpage now16:59
lardmanand I'm just QML-ifying mbarcode-lite so that you can do something with the barcodes17:00
fiferboydjszapi: I guess I could look at the fremantle package and give it a try17:00
lardmanbut more photoanalyser plugins always welcome :)17:00
fiferboylardman: How is the QML-ifying going?17:00
lardmanjust started, quite confusing, though the app is fairly simlple ui-wise, so I hope to have something working by this evening17:01
lardmanI was thinking of cool swipe ins and vibrating/flashing tabs, but then I realised I should just get something working first :)17:01
fiferboylardman: I QML-ified by birding app from Desktop Qt and once the ball started rolling things went very smoothly17:02
lardmanit looks pretty simple, just a change in terminology which is confusing17:02
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fiferboylardman: Don't let GAN900 tell you what animations and transitions you can have, he will take them all out :(17:02
djszapiYes, and he could not get a version > 5.1 to compile in scratchbox, but i guess in the meantime mysql switch to cmake and then it should be easier to compile a newer version17:02
fiferboylardman: It was pretty painless for me because I have custom model classes that do most of the work17:03
* fiferboy sighs17:03
lardmanfiferboy: yeah most of the work in mbarcode-lite is done in the C++ code, so I should be able to wrap it quite simply, I hope!17:03
lardmanso last question, Item should be the base "class" for a component?17:03
fiferboyWell at least Fremantle had the same issue, so if I can build mysql I should be able to copy the code to build just the mysql portion of Qt. I hope!17:04
lardmanShould my pages be components?17:04
fiferboylardman: Everything is a "Component" at heart, but all your files (except the main) should have a top level "Item" AFAIK17:04
lardmanand then within the Item {} I stick the Page {}?17:05
alteregolardman: no, they should be Page {}17:05
alteregoAs the root component.17:05
alteregoacts as inheritence.17:05
lardmanah ok, will check that out17:05
fiferboyalterego saves the day17:05
fiferboyI'm still at the stage where I *should* be splitting my QML up :)17:06
alteregoHeh, I religously do it.17:06
alteregoKeeping a good balance is good though .17:06
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lardmanI thought I'd at least start the right way ;)17:07
fiferboyalterego: I ran into a strange issue when I first started doing it where a change in one of the split files didn't make it into the compile o_O17:07
fiferboyIt seems to have corrected itself (with a Qt Creator close/open)17:07
fiferboyalterego: Do you add your QML files to a resource, or refer to them by path?17:07
Mekyeah, I have the same problem all the time too, where I need to rerun qmake and/or do a make clean and/or restart qtcreator (I'm not sure yet which is the minimum needed to make it detect changes in new files)17:09
fiferboyMek: Yup, exactly my problem (though it is currently working for me)17:09
fiferboyI found a project rebuild did the trick, but took much longer17:09
alteregofiferboy: depends what I'm doing, most of my qml is in .qml files on the filesystem.17:12
alteregoBut occasionally I use qrc's.17:12
alteregoOh, I used to have that exact issue with images in qrc files.17:13
alteregoI say "used", I mean, I have had/noticed that issue ;)17:13
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alteregoThe logic is starting to come together now ..17:36
lardmananyone know how one gets the window size?17:41
lardmani.e. the container17:41
npmMek & alterego -- i have same issue w/ qtcreator... i've taken to deleting the *-build-desktop *-build-harmattan when i make major structural changes in a *.pro file17:44
fiferboylardman: Which container?17:44
lardmanwell basically the outermost window, so I can work out how large to make the contents17:45
lardmanso knowing what the screen res is and whether we're full screen perhaps, if we have to set it ourselves?17:45
mariob have some properties for the phys screen17:48
marioblardman: but your app will be opened fullscreen17:49
lardmanso I just use parent.width in each of the Pages in my PageStackWindow ?17:50
Mekjust use id-of-the-page.width17:50
mariobIf you use the Page element you don't have to set width/height17:50
lardmanmariob: it's full screen automatically?17:51
marioblardman: yepp17:51
lardmanok cool17:51
mariobHmmm... In qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/mdeclarativescreen.cpp I see "displaySize = QSize(854, 480); screenSize = QSize(displaySize.width(), displaySize.height());". This could explain why the splash screen (which the invoker shows) is rotated maybe?17:52
* lardman look at how one handles rotation17:53
marioblardman: inPortrait property17:53
lardmanand there's presumably a signal I can wait for to change my ui setup?17:54
marioblardman: property binding :)17:54
lardmanhmm, this is getting beyond my level now...17:54
mariobfor example: visible: inPortrait17:54
lardmanbut what about the transition from portrait to landscape?17:55
lardmanas I need to alter my layout when the orientation changes17:55
mariobinPortrait is false in landscape17:55
Mekhave a state with when: inPortrait17:55
lardmanah ok, states17:55
Mekand then have a transition to/from that state17:55
marioblardman: A good read (even if it's for symbian) is the following page:
marioblardman: Most of the components work the same17:57
lardmanthat's a lot of reading17:58
marioblardman: Do it right or do it... :)17:58
marioblardman: The page contains quick access to QML element docs for Page/Button/ToolBar etc17:58
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lardmanI've been reading the main QtQuick docs, but there are an awful lot and at some point you have to start writing code, otherwise it goes in one ear and out the other; or eyeball perhaps17:59
lardmanyeah no worries on the components, they all seem pretty easy, but I do wonder about states, and while I see examples of changing properties, I need to alter the direction of a layout17:59
marioblardman: Of coz, just kidding... But serioulsy, the Qt comp. element docs are good18:00
lardmanI guess that is also encapsulated in a property of the layout mind you, so it will work in the same way18:00
Mekor you can have a ParentChange and/or AnchorChange element in your State18:00
lardmanah yes, I remember reading about Anchors18:00
lardmancool, thanks18:00
* lardman goes to do some experimentation18:01
mariobOr (I haven't tried it) use Loader to load a different QML file18:01
lardmanI saw that, I guess it might be slow though18:02
lcuk\o lardman18:02
lcuklots of qml docs indeed18:03
marioblardman: All depends how much qml code you can manage in one file :)18:03
lardman shows loader, but I'm not sure about how the list state, etc., is handled on orientation change18:04
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lardmannow another question, if I have my toolbar with buttons on it, whose size is related to parent.width, etc., do these buttons resize when the toolbar itself resizes, or do I need to hook a resize signal?18:05
lardmanI'm assuming I do need to resize things and that the properties that are set at the start are just initial values18:06
marioblardman: you shouldn't need to resize anything on the toolbar18:06
lardmanoh, why not?18:07
lardmanHow is it handled for me?18:07
lardmanbearing in mind this is my own toolbar18:07
marioblardman: ok18:07
marioblardman: Well, you just set toolbarItem.width: toolbar.width - margin18:07
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lardmanmariob: yep but that's at the start when the object is contsructed isn't it?18:08
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wazd_n900Hi all18:29
fiferboyHey wazd_n90018:30
Stskeepslo wazd_n90018:31
wazd_n900Fiferboy: how's it going? )18:31
wazd_n900Stskeeps: oh, welcome back :P18:31
fiferboywazd_n900: It's going good, you?18:32
Stskeepswazd_n900: when are you back on a non-gprs line?18:32
wazd_n900Stskeeps: not yet but I will be in 2 hours18:33
fiferboywazd_n900: Any thoughts?
Stskeepswazd_n900: alright18:33
wazd_n900Fiferboy: fine, but it's kinda boring to be at the country without any laptop :)18:34
wazd_n900Stskeeps: waiting for the train to bring me back to civilization :)18:34
wazd_n900I was playing with widgets gallery and figured uot that it's actually ok to make fullscreen apps18:35
wazd_n900Fiferboy: interesting18:36
wazd_n900Fiferboy: I'd move percentage numbers above the pies18:37
fiferboywazd_n900: Can do18:37
fiferboywazd_n900: Also, the percentages are whole number now, and I added a shadow to the bars18:38
wazd_n900Fiferboy: and what does the progressbar show?18:38
faenilfiferboy: I'd move pies about the bars :D18:38
fiferboyfaenil: I'll try that18:39
wazd_n900Fiferboy: I mean right now it shows for example "seen 191 of ???"18:40
fiferboywazd_n900: The total, so 191 of 113518:40
fiferboyThe pies show that in percentage, the bars show the count18:40
lcukfiferboy, :D18:41
wazd_n900Fiferboy: hmm18:41
wazd_n900Fiferboy: I guess I can work on that :)18:41
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fiferboywazd_n900: :D18:43
fiferboywazd_n900: I am custom drawing the bars and pies, so I can change it around18:43
fiferboyAnd my label wording sucks18:43
fiferboylcuk: Stats tell you how good a birder you are18:43
lcukfiferboy, indeed18:44
lcukand how fast the camera works!18:44
fiferboylcuk: Should I give a total score by aggregate?18:44
lcukfiferboy, photos/time?18:44
fiferboy"You scored C+, needs improvement"18:44
lcukyou must also do similar with fishing database18:44
lcukfiferboy, i think that would not help too much unless the ratios are part of birdwatching in general18:45
lcukwhat do other twitchers use to keep their stats with?18:45
fiferboyI need to abstract my model classes a bit more and I can make it do whatever you want18:46
fiferboyI don't actually know any real stats, these ones just seemed useful for me to know18:46
lcuknot at all18:46
lcukyou are going great as is18:46
lcukthe other usecases are just examples for later18:46
lcukdid you import the data from n900 app?18:47
wazd_n900Fiferboy: it's like a foursquare for birders :D18:47
fiferboylcuk: It uses the same database structure18:47
lcukfiferboy, but where does it get your score from18:48
fiferboyThe desktop version has a more powerful import from csv or xml18:48
lcukor is that a mockup18:48
fiferboylcuk: No, those are my real numbers.  Birds seen and photo'ed are from my list18:48
lcukdoes the app let you view the photographs also?18:49
lcukor are they not retained in the database18:49
fiferboylcuk: The database stores thumbnails of the files you choose, and it can show large versions from the file system18:50
lcukfiferboy, cool18:51
lcukfiferboy, i gather moving between computers is a bit less trivial18:52
fiferboylcuk: IF the platform has mysql bindings I sync to a central mysql server which keeps all the clients the same18:53
fiferboyHarmattan does not have this :(18:53
lcukfiferboy, I meant for the large photographs18:53
fiferboylcuk: Yes, this is a problem.  Though I may have it so I can store the files in the cloud and have the app pull from that18:54
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lcukif you do that, you may as well put the database there too18:54
lcukharmattan includes support for numerous types of cloudy sync stuff18:55
* lcuk using curl18:56
lcukqt has numerous methods18:56
fiferboylcuk: How does qt handle database syncing remotely?18:56
lcuki meant cloud connections18:56
fiferboyI thought I had to use a database with a client/server interface18:56
fiferboylcuk: Do you know where I can find info on that?18:56
lcukremember, something like twitter is technically a database18:56
fiferboyI'm very interested in enabling that functionality - even better if there is no need to maintain a mysql server18:57
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lcukfiferboy, you still need to have a server - but it becomes something clients signup for18:58
lcukput a web front end on it and you just extended the scope beyond your individual device18:58
lcuktwitter for twitchers18:58
fiferboyI wish we had Qt mysql available, but Nokia seems pretty firmly against that18:58
Stskeepsit's kinda silly really, considering those things are plugins of all things18:59
lcuka quick google suggests it exists?18:59
fiferboylcuk: The sqlite plugin is there, but not a mysql client or Qt mysql plugin19:00
* lcuk noticing many people discussing databases last few days19:00
lcukfiferboy, so that is what is needed in harmattan?19:04
lcukat least for direct support to the sqlserver itself19:05
lcukotherwise, make a pretty php interface19:05
lcukand talk to that from your app19:05
fiferboylcuk: Yes, that is the package I need (along with mysql-client, I think)19:06
fiferboylcuk: I actually have a PHP frontend for viewing and changing, but I haven't updated it for my latest database changes19:06
fiferboyBasically, I want to be able to access the same information regardless of what device I am currently using.  MySQL in Qt allowed me to do that.19:07
lcukheh i once wrote a php front end to a tiny database, when i got to using it was pleasantly surprised the code worked \o/19:07
lcukfiferboy, indeed19:08
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lcukfiferboy, that has always been issue with liqbase, my code worked happily on one machine but did not connect with the bigger one19:09
* lcuk now has a bridge19:10
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wazd_n900Oh, btw19:12
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wazd_n900Do you guys think that using a sheet for weather stations management is a good idea? Or it's better to have a subpage in options?19:13
fiferboywazd_n900: Personally, I find sheets best for something that nees the "accept" and "reject" options19:14
fiferboyIf it doesn't need that, I use a page19:14
wazd_n900Fuck :( :)19:14
wazd_n900Fiferboy: yeah, I was thinking bout that too19:15
mgedmin/usr/bin/messageserver is eating 52% cpu, syslog is eating 40%, my n950 is hot hot hot and low on battery19:16
wazd_n900Fiferboy: it's tricky to jump between N950's and N900's keyboards :)19:16
mgedminoops it just died19:17
mgedmin/var/log/syslog said something about DSME being unable to stat something, and also "last message repeated a gazillion times"19:17
lcukmgedmin, is gazillion a technical term? :P19:19
mgedminit's a variable19:21
* fiferboy builds mysql for Harmattan (hopefully)19:22
mgedminMessageserver[pid]: [Warning] QAbstractSocket::waitForBytesWritten() is not allowed in UnconnectedState19:22
lcukfiferboy, on the obs?19:22
mgedminrepeated hundreds of thousands of times19:22
fiferboylcuk: Not yet.  Just testing the Fremantle build against Harmattan19:22
mgedminwell, millions really -- except every 2-4 hundred thousand repetitions get its own syslog line19:22
mgedminplus a few of those DSME: failed to statfs the mount point (/home/user/MyDocs)19:23
lcukmgedmin, i guess the messageserver broke a bit19:23
mgedmin*whew*, MyDocs was not mounted because I booted it with the USB cable plugged in, not because of any flash errors19:25
mgedminfbreader forgot what I was reading and where :/19:26
lcukmgedmin, frustrating19:26
lcukmgedmin, are the fbreader settings usually transferable between devices?19:27
lcukie reading same book on n900/n95019:27
lcukand continuing where you were19:27
mgedminshould be fine19:28
lardmanhmm this screen orientation example is rather confusing
lardmanno mention of how the actual orientation makes it into the js code19:29
fiferboylardman: If you are using a PageStackWindow orientation is a lot easier than with pure QML19:30
lardmanfiferboy: the Pages handle it automatically so I understand?19:30
lardmanbut I need to change anchors when the orientation changes too19:31
fiferboylardman: Yes, if you have a state for orientation changes you can do an AnchorChange in it19:32
lardmanany examples?19:33
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fiferboylardman: You can look at my code (probably not the best example - monolithic qml file)19:34
lardman:) thanks19:34
* lardman tuts at single qml file ;)19:35
fiferboylardman: Yeah, I think this is my last project that is still a single file19:35
fiferboyIt doesn't bother me much at all, except that I know it is not socially acceptable19:36
lardmancode reuse!19:36
fiferboylardman: Patches welcome :)19:36
fiferboy(I haven't gone through it in much detail to optimize yet)19:37
lardmanah, I've got plenty of qml to write as penance, no desire to write even more ;)19:37
fiferboyI probably shouldn't even have let you see it yet :)19:37
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lardmanhey I pushed an mbarcode-lite binary last night in which you can only see half the image and can't make out the words in the plugin list19:38
lardmanso in terms of "not quite ready" I've probably "got you beat" there19:38
fiferboylardman: Yeah, but the code is probably sparkling and pure - that's what matters here right?19:38
lardmanhmm, results matter19:38
lardmanand probably what the end user sees in that case19:39
lardmannice clean and wonderfully structured code is a personal matter that sometimes gets left behind in the rush to get results19:39
fiferboyLine 432 should be what interests you19:40
fiferboyAnd out of curiousity, where do you see code reuse?19:40
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lardmanah AnchorChanges is useful rather than my trying to change each Property one by one, thanks19:41
lardmannah, I meant reuse between projects19:41
fiferboylardman: That's what I used to do - I had a function that would rearrange everything19:42
fiferboyD'oh, I thought you were admonishing my sloppy coding practices19:42
alteregoUh-oh quim is getting nostalgic ..19:42
fiferboyI also used to have AnchorAnimations that would juggle everything around on orientation change19:42
lardmanfiferboy: well I was taking the mick, knowing that I do the same, and that I also can't really talk as this is my first bit of qml code :D19:43
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lardmanhmm, the animations sound pretty, but why did you get rid?19:43
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fiferboylardman: GeneralAntilles was mean and told me I was putting form over function :(19:44
lardmanoh I see19:44
fiferboyI can see his point, though - why wait for the rotation animation is finished just to make the user wait while everything rearranges19:44
lardmanwell surely pretty is part of the function?19:44
lardmanbecause they will salivate with the amazing animation...? ;)19:45
fiferboyIt was probably only pretty in my eyes because it was my baby. There were issues with lable line widths while they were moving19:45
lardmanwell I think Anchor animations are probably some way off for me in any case19:46
fiferboyI told him I was going to lenghten the delays and amination times just to spite him19:46
npmcompared to HP the n950 seems like a better developer story:
fiferboylardman: Really, once you get the hang of states/transitions/animations it is *amazingly* easy to do cool stuff19:46
lardmanyeah looking at the docs I can see that19:47
fiferboyWhich is probably why I put it in in the first place - it was almost as easy as leaving it out19:47
lardmanand actually the whole state thing is very simple, it's just a pita to get the basics in place as ever when you learn something new19:47
fiferboylardman: Yeah, it took my a few iterations to get to the current method19:49
fiferboyI was avoiding states and animations for a while19:49
lcuki think I sussed why the connection dialog has a distinct button to connect!19:49
lcukfiferboy, the states certainly help with the logic19:51
alteregostates are brilliant :)19:52
* fiferboy agrees19:52
djszapi_if they are not abused...19:53
alteregoI used them in the dialer in a quite useful way, and I use them more now because of that. You get a call state coming in from ofono, cleverly name the QML states the same and just set the state binding to the call state variable :)19:53
lcukdjszapi_, of course19:53
alteregoThey're even better when they're abused :P19:53
lardmandoes one need to set reciprocal anchors?19:53
djszapi_I prefer it, yes. The more explicit the better19:54
lcukdoes anybody else find capacitive screens a bit odd at times and mistaps and swipes frustrating19:54
antman8969lcuk especially on the bigger screens  yea19:55
fiferboyThe probably with reciprocal anchors (I find) is when you go from landscape to portrait neither knows how big it should be19:55
alteregoYes :)19:55
lardmanI have major troubles hitting the call button and alarm buttons19:55
antman8969the palm of my hand hits the bottom corner all the time when holding...19:55
lardmanI've no clue why they are all so small19:55
alteregoantman8969: +119:55
lcukantman8969, lol19:55
lardmanalso, I can't unlock the phone with only one hand, which is very annoying19:55
alteregoI've started swiping up from the bottom rather than the side.19:55
lcukyou mean the hand you are using to swipe with?19:55
djszapi_lardman: yes, you can19:55
djszapi_I always do19:56
lardmandjszapi_: I can't though19:56
lcuklardman has girly hands19:56
lardmanquite ;)19:56
fiferboylardman doesn't have much dexterity19:56
antman8969lol apparently19:56
djszapi_what does it have to do with girlish hands ?19:56
* lardman doesn't like risking dropping his phone while swiping19:56
antman8969real men have huge thumbs, duh19:56
alteregoI've already dropped it twice ..19:57
djszapi_it has nothing to do with size...19:57
fiferboyThat's what she said19:57
djszapi_one finger presses the button, the other one swipes, that is19:57
antman8969alterego I dropped mine on pavement, now there are silver scratches along the top facing me... it's horrible19:57
djszapi_and you can still keep the phone in the meantime, I see zero issue19:57
antman8969I color them in with permanent marker every day19:58
lardmanyeah I reckon it's because I'm touching the bottom of the phone at the same time with my palm19:58
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lcuklardman, are you a lefty?20:00
lardmanno righthanded20:00
djszapi_it is even simplier for left handed actually.20:00
lardmanthumb on right, index finger on switch, other three on left20:00
mgedminI can confirm lardman's problem20:01
lcuklardman, on the switch?20:01
mgedminthumb-swiping right-to-left makes me accidentally touch the phone in two places at once, which aborts the swipe20:01
lardmandjszapi_: yes, left handed is very easy20:01
lcuki thought double tap unlocked20:01
lardmanmgedmin: same here20:01
mgedminunless I arch my thumb in a rather unnatural way and am very very careful20:01
lardmanlcuk: then it unlocks when I pick it up though, so I've disabled that20:01
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lcukdjszapi_, do you use the double tap unlock20:02
lcukor try to reach for the button20:02
lcukI think that might be the reason20:02
djszapi_lcuk read back20:02
lardmanback to qml, does one need to set height and width or will the components/items auto fit their contents?20:03
djszapi_lcuk: it is very either way anyway20:03
djszapi_even with just one finger, really :)20:03
djszapi_very easy*20:03
djszapi_lardman: it does not fill out, just if you set the parent filter.20:06
djszapi_or well, as usual, being explicit is a good practice really.20:06
lardmanI can't know the sizes thought, that's my issue20:06
lardmane.g. of an image20:06
djszapi_anchors.fill: parent;20:07
lardmando sub-items inherit that, or do I need to set it for each item20:08
fiferboylardman: You can get an image size with sourceSize, I think20:08
lardmanfiferboy: then I need to see whether it's larger than the available space, which needs js iirc20:09
djszapi_isn't there a max/min function available by default ?20:09
djszapi_fiferboy is right:
fiferboylardman: No, you can do height: Math.min(parent.height, image.sourceSize.height) or something20:09
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lardmanah ok20:10
djszapi_height: Math.max(pix.height, textelement.height + subtextelement.height) + 10; -> This is something I did20:10
djszapi_you do not even need to import anything apart from QtQuick20:11
* lardman tries that out20:11
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lardmanand how do I set e.g. min height?20:12
lardmanby setting the height: property of an item?20:13
djszapi_afaik, there is no min height, but fiferboy will correct me :)20:13
fiferboylardman: Do you mean you want to set the image height to some min?20:14
djszapi_just use another min. I guess20:15
lardmanWell I was thinking that some text needs a minimum size, but that it can grow if the image is too small20:15
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fiferboylardman: How are the text and the image laid out?20:20
lardmanimage above two lines of text20:21
fiferboyIf you want to be fancy you could do something in your text, like font.pixelSize: (parent.height - image.height)/220:22
fiferboyBut I think you are probably better off with just a fixed font size and limit the height of the image20:22
fiferboyWell, mysql built fine20:26
lardmanI'll have to run the code and see what things look like I think20:26
lardmanno idea how large the fonts need to be for example20:26
fiferboyBuilding Qt with mysql isn't going to be so easy because all the packaging for it has been removed20:27
lardmando we not have QtSql now?20:27
fiferboylardman: If you use Label insteas of Text a sane system default is used20:28
fiferboylardman: We have sqlite, but not mysql20:28
lardmanah ok, on both counts20:28
* lardman clears the table (and laptop) for supper20:28
djszapi_lardman: what is wrong about sqlite ?20:28
lardmandjszapi_: nothing, I use it quite happily20:29
lardmandjszapi_: you're asking the wrong person20:29
lardmanI think lcuk was after it20:29
fiferboyNo, it was me20:29
fiferboy(possibly lcuk as well)20:29
lardmanbbl anyway chaps20:29
djszapi_fiferboy tries to push it, but no reason for that in a simple case :)20:29
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fiferboydjszapi_: I'm not pushing it anymore, I am building it myself20:30
djszapi_is it really worth it ?20:32
fiferboyIt is to me.20:32
fiferboyI don't want to be using my app on my Harmattan phone and not be able to send the data back to my server20:32
djszapi_did you check whether the akonadi driver can manage it first ?20:32
fiferboyWith the updated data on my server I can update all the other clients running on different platforms and have the same data everywhere20:33
fiferboyI did look a little bit at akonadi, but was put off by the seeming PIM focus20:34
fiferboyIt could very well do what I want, but I already have all the code to sync my client to a mysql server20:34
fiferboySo first I am going to exhaust that avenue20:34
djszapi_the problem is that, you will have a custom qt then20:34
djszapi_so you do not go with the official qt anymore, I do not think that is too nice20:34
fiferboyYes, and I would like to avoid that if possible20:35
fiferboyWhich is why my first attempt was to have it in the system libraries :)20:35
djszapi_well, provide a use case in details to me, and I can contact the SDK team.20:35
fiferboyBut it is possible to build just the qt mysql portion and keep the rest of the system Qt libs, so I don't think this is such a big problem20:35
fiferboydjszapi_: =D20:36
djszapi_I am not quite getting your idea, but seems to be hackish.20:36
fiferboydjszapi_: My use case is to have an application that I can carry around with me (currently for birdwatching, but I also want to do the same for books, DVDs, CDs, etc)20:36
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djszapi_what I was referring to is that, if it is a fundamental use case, they might have some other option.20:36
fiferboyThe client uses and sqlite to maintain its own database, but when I get back to civilization I want to have all the changes I made sync to my desktop, my server, my tablet, my TV20:37
fiferboyOk, so I want centralized data on multiple clients without the need for constant internet access20:37
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djszapi_doesn't the mail client do such things ?20:38
fiferboyYes, but I hardly think I could use IMAP or POP3 to synchronize my data - mail client is a very specialized app20:39
fiferboyWe have means to maintain sqlite database, and that is all I need on the client side20:39
djszapi_try to imagine an application on Harmattan which does similar functionality, if not... then it is probably not a common use case ...20:40
fiferboyThe media player with DLNA, the mail client with IMAP, the contacts application with ??,20:41
djszapi_but as said, it was awfully hard to manage for fremantle as well20:41
djszapi_contacts are using tp imho20:41
djszapi_not sure what for sync purposes20:42
lcukdjszapi_, the mysql plugin is just another database adapter to qt core connectivity.  it was there previously and since it afaik is not broken could be included still20:42
djszapi_lcuk: I think you are basically wrong20:42
djszapi_it was not there for fremantle either, and it was a stroke of hack to get it managed.20:42
fiferboyI don't want or need a mysql server on the device, I just want to be able to talk with remote servers20:42
djszapi_fiferboy: well, if harmattan applications manage it differently, I see exactly zero reason why they would support mysql20:43
fiferboydjszapi_: The community port of Qt for Fremantle had it without problems20:43
djszapi_community port can do anything, that has nothing to do with the platform.20:43
fiferboydjszapi_: But what method are they providing for thrid party applications to do the same?20:43
djszapi_it is a very weak and invalid argument :)20:43
fiferboyDoes every application need to implement its own method?20:44
djszapi_fiferboy: that is what I told you, go figure out20:44
djszapi_how they manage similar situations.20:44
lcukfiferboy, yes20:44
djszapi_lcuk: I know my friend did it.20:44
lcukeach app must include its own kernel ;)20:44
fiferboylcuk: I will just ship my own version of Qt that only my program uses20:45
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lcukfiferboy, now you are thinking with portals!20:45
djszapi_and I told you quite a few hours ago, it was a pita.20:45
djszapi_so thanks for confirming :)20:45
djszapi_and since the platform apparently does not need it, I see exactly zero reason why the platform sdk should provide it.20:45
djszapi_fiferboy: not a mature habit20:45
djszapi_but ok for me, if that is what you want to :)20:45
fiferboydjszapi_: I am just frustrated20:46
lcukdjszapi_, I believe his tongue was in his cheek20:46
fiferboyI thought the point of having a library in the platform SDK was so that applications could use it20:46
djszapi_:D :D :D20:47
fiferboyI am not sure I understand why they would remove part of the Qt libraries20:47
djszapi_it is not a wishlist for everybody.20:47
djszapi_it is called platform SDK20:47
fiferboydjszapi_: I am not talking about adding an arbitrary library, but about not removing part of the core system20:47
djszapi_what you are just saying is that they should do all the community stuff which is obviously wrong20:48
djszapi_core system what ?20:48
djszapi_it is not the part of the Harmattan system20:48
fiferboyNo, I am talking about giving us a full version of Qt instead of an *almost* full version20:48
djszapi_I highly disagree20:49
fiferboyThe only issue here is that it is so hard to do on the community side because it was left out20:49
djszapi_next step would be to provide full qt-doc on the device, no it is no go20:49
djszapi_this is an embedded device with a software designed for embedded usage20:49
fiferboyI never said it had to be installed by default, just available for use20:50
djszapi_I seriously see zero point in extra work that they do not require.20:50
djszapi_they had to port mysql which is a pita as said gazillion times.20:50
djszapi_and since they do not need it in the platform, it is really pointless work20:51
GAN900It's not an embedded device by any stretch of the term.20:52
GAN900I've got laptops lying around with less juice.20:52
lcukdjszapi_, the work is mostly in saying it is hard work - it just built happily on default harmattan system according to fiferboy !20:52
lcukbut I do understand why it is not there20:53
* lcuk goes for tea20:53
djszapi_lcuk: yes, of course my friend lied20:53
djszapi_thanks, kindly.20:53
* alterego is having curreh tonight ..20:53
djszapi_fiferboy: what will be the next wishlist, the kernel is outdated ? :D20:53
djszapi_and you need some bleeding edge patch integrated asap ? :)20:54
djszapi_it is exactly the same case20:54
lcukdjszapi_, he already said he will include qt5 in his app!20:54
alteregoWhat's so great about BT 4?20:55
GAN900Slippery slope! Slippery slope!20:55
GAN900Before you know it they'll want Wikipedia in 200 languages!!!20:55
GAN900Where will it end?!20:56
GAN900alterego, autoconfigures adhoc wifi and nfc.20:56
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fiferboydjszapi_: I'm just not sure how I could provide a use case that you would find suitable20:56
djszapi_lcuk: I know lcuk, you are so master, and my friend was too silly to do it easily for fremantle, thanks kindly!20:56
wazdStskeeps: ok I'm up :P20:56
djszapi_fiferboy: well, I would make a research if I were you first, seriously.20:57
fiferboydjszapi_: The mysql I just compiled was likely the version your friend did :)20:57
djszapi_fiferboy: to know the exact situation how these things work in other application. I would not try to make a community Qt first immediately.20:57
djszapi_fiferboy: remember when I told you today, it was going to be much easier for Harmattan20:58
djszapi_fiferboy: but yes, indeed it was a pita for fremantle.20:58
fiferboyI don't doubt it, it took much longer to compile than I figured20:59
djszapi_fiferboy: anyway, you can see that it is not a wishlist matter. Same could happen with almost anything that is truncated starting from the kernel..21:03
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fiferboyI would say it is a wishlist matter - anything could be added to the wishlist. But from what you say it is not a wish that has a good chance of being accepted21:06
fiferboyWhich is fine, any package could be rejected21:06
fiferboyMy issue is trying to get at least a consideration, and you say you see no reason it should be included21:07
fiferboySo, either I can find another way to do what I want, build it myself, or keep bugging people who might want it as well :)21:08
djszapi_not really.21:10
djszapi_this should not realy happen right now. You should just check out the state of art, that is21:10
djszapi_and when you have clear idea about the platform regarding this, you can think further on.21:10
fiferboyI am looking for a suitable alternative without success so far21:11
fiferboyI have found the contact sync framework :)21:11
Stskeepsfiferboy: for qt mysql.. build the qt package with it enabled and ship only the mysql plugin21:11
Stskeepsit should be api/abi compatible21:11
fiferboyStskeeps: I am looking at the Fremantle code for the package that did just that21:12
RzR950djszapi_, chatter did build thx21:12
djszapi_fiferboy: without success after 1-2 hours ? :)21:18
fiferboydjszapi_: Haven't started that one yet21:20
fiferboyI was looking at the supplied Qt source first to see what was there21:20
aapoOk, simple GTK hello-world running on N950 (gtk-2.14.7, same than on Fremantle). I accidentally build documentation too, and it took 259min21:21
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fiferboyQt with MySQL is building :)21:50
fiferboy(This is going to take a while)21:50
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fiferboy50 minutes to generate the makefiles22:41
* fiferboy needs a faster machine22:41
djszapi_scratchboxy ?22:41
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fiferboyIt probably isn't going to build :(22:43
fiferboyI forgot to take out webkit and a bunch of other stuff I don't need22:43
djszapi_I think qt is smaller than kdelibs, but I am not sure22:43
djszapi_at least the build time was shorter on Windows somehow.22:43
DocScrutinizerso who's still thinking the back cover of N950 is alu?22:44
fiferboydjszapi_: Can you get kdelibs to build in scratchbox?22:45
fiferboyThen there is hope for me :)22:46
djszapi_fiferboy: I am almost pretty sure, it will not work out on c-obs22:47
fiferboyI know I had trouble with Qt on Diablo(?) in scratchbox22:47
wazdDocScrutinizer: me? :)22:47
DocScrutinizerwazd: you opened it?22:50
wazdDocScrutinizer: Nooooooo, Me? Nooooo, never! (wink) :D22:50
wazdDocScrutinizer: it sounds like a metal to me for sure22:51
DocScrutinizertactile, acoustic and optic is like plastic on the inside22:51
DocScrutinizeresp the obvious moulding is 100% indicator for plastic22:53
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DocScrutinizerwow, triangle with >AL<22:56
DocScrutinizernever seen alu that's so much feeling and looking like plastic22:56
DocScrutinizerthe ends have a triangle with >PC+ABS<22:58
DocScrutinizerooops I scratched it ;-P22:59
DocScrutinizerno there's no more denying - it's metal23:00
wazdDocScrutinizer: :)23:00
fiferboyOo, sql is building!23:10
fiferboyOh, I have to wait until plugins are built :(23:18
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djszapi_fiferboy: head up :)23:22
fiferboydjszapi_: At least my battery is charged enough to survive the drive home while compiling :)23:22
fiferboyJust have to make sure auto-suspend is turned off..23:22
djszapi_which city are you live in ?23:22
fiferboyI'm in Canada, near Toronto23:25
djszapi_Canada is a great place :)23:25
fiferboyI think so!23:26
fiferboyJust don't tell rm_work that...23:26
fiferboyrm_work: Um, we weren't talking about Canada >_>23:34
GAN900Canada is just the USA's hat23:36
GAN900and hats are silly.23:36
rm_workwell, silly hats are silly.23:36
GAN900Anachronistic and strange.23:36
* rm_work puts on his srs bsns hat23:36
fiferboyGAN900: What does that make Alaska?23:38
GAN900The feather23:38
fiferboyOk :(23:38
berndhs my n950 says it's 225x117 millimeters23:39
berndhsfishing is popular in Finnland ?23:39
berndhsthere too :)23:41
djszapi_it is populer during the very short good weather, I would say.23:41
djszapi_fiferboy: I do not understand few things in the snake qml example.23:41
fiferboydjszapi_: Oh?23:42
djszapi_it uses a "variable" called "direction" without var usage in fact.23:42
fiferboydjszapi_: Link?23:42
djszapi_I thought you need to pass it as an argument or declarate it by using "var", but I do not see anything like that23:42
djszapi_actually, the same situation around the "state" and other "variables".23:46
djszapi_I think I am lacking something about the javascript features.23:46
fiferboydjszapi_: I believe that is reference to properties declared in the QML23:46
fiferboyIn snake.qml there is "property int direction"23:47
djszapi_ahhh true. I was not in the projectroot while making the grep23:48
djszapi_mmm, it is much easier by using Gluon ;-)23:49
djszapi_fiferboy: so what is the restriction of using QML properties from a javascript function, if any ? Can you use it from a javascript file if the qml is in a sibling subfolder ?23:50
djszapi_or even more nested relationship between the qml and javascript file.23:51
fiferboydjszapi_: I think as long as the javascript file is imported in the QML you can use it23:51
djszapi_fiferboy: btw
fiferboyDo I know anyone there?23:58
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