IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-08-16

kimjuhmm.. did I break the c-obs? I uploaded new test version of package and right after that the whole obs stopped responding, at least for me.00:05
hiemanshuIts a conspiracy! :P00:06
djszapikimju: welcome to the real world :)00:06
djszapiI am gonna talk to one tomorrow anyway00:06
djszapi+ guy00:06
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Venemodjszapi, X-Fade is who you're looking for00:09
kimjuok, now it started responding again00:12
djszapiopen blackmagic service :)00:12
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lardmanhmm, qml00:20
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mecefrals, qlister2 0.1 :) check twitter.00:39
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kimjuthis obs hanging stuff is getting weirder still.. now I replaced the aegis-deb-add with directly calling ar rv to add the (same) _aegis file in the package. -> obs hangs. so it looks like if the last program to touch the .deb is ar, it fails. aegis-deb-add doesn't call ar, it has pure perl implementation to rewrite the archive.00:46
djszapikimju: Could you please make a public note aboutthese observations ?00:47
kimjuI just did?00:47
djszapiwiki page, bug report and so forth, not IRC.00:47
djszapiif you have just done, could you please send the link ?00:48
kimjuonly here.00:49
kimjuhmm, actually, aegis-deb-util calls ar first, then aegis-deb-add. and that breaks it too.00:50
lardmanhow does one open the browser programmatically?00:51
lardmanis there a wiki page of DBus calls for Harmattan somewhere?00:51
lardmanor is this now provided by qtm?00:51
kimjuso it doesn't matter if it's the last tool, just touching the deb with ar is enough to hang it00:51
kimjuah, ignore that, it doesn't call ar. I'm starting to get confused with all these tools.00:53
mikhaslardman, if xdg-open <url> is not good enough for you, then probably best to ask on ML00:54
kimjuusing aegis-deb-util: regenerates control.tar.gz, calls aegis-deb-add to add it and _aegis: fails; calling aegis-deb-add to add only _aegis: works; using ar to add _aegis: fails; using aegis-deb-add to add _aegis and then ar to add anything else: fails00:55
lardmanmikhas: I'll have a look at that, thanks00:57
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mikhaslardman, was quickly looking for an example for Harmattan, but couldnt find any …01:06
mikhaslardman, but one common theme in Harmattan is to checkout the app's .desktop file and use the exec line01:07
mikhassearch app does that most of the time01:07
kimjuhmmh.. maybe I'll add hexdump to dump the generated deb to build logs at the end of rules file, then run the test builds again.01:07
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lardmanmikhas: ok, under Fremantle there was a DBus call, or one could use the MIME handlers, I'll have to do some looking for the Harmattan stuff01:09
mikhasthere *must* be a D-Bus call01:10
mikhasping me again during office hours?01:11
mikhasperhaps I can catch someone01:11
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lardmanmikhas: thanks, I'll check dbus-monitor anyway but will give you a shout if I come up blank01:12
mikhasso your question in general was: "Is there documentation for the available D-Bus calls, such as launching the browser with URL programmatically?"01:12
lcuk\o lardman01:12
mikhasyeah, there's always that, of course01:12
* mikhas is not an H app dev …01:12
lardmanH app?01:13
lardmanhey lcuk01:13
mikhasHarmattan application developer01:13
lardmanah, of course01:13
mikhasas in: one of those poor souls who wrote the e-mail client and such ;-)01:14
mikhasbut it's exactly those poor souls that I was planning to ask, heh01:15
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DocScrutinizerfactoids: battery at shutdown 3.30V01:20
DocScrutinizeron power-on system will light up indicator LED, bounce vibra, and shut off immediately again01:21
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DocScrutinizersystem won't repeat same process again, until a recovery time of several 10s of seconds01:24
* lardman is curious as to what was clobbering his battery over the last few weeks01:24
DocScrutinizerprobably due to cell voltage loss during minimal bootup, and cell needs to recover to the minimal voltage after that01:24
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DocScrutinizerbattery at 3.19V now, system doesn't miniboot anymore01:28
lardmancan it charge?01:28
DocScrutinizerlooks like01:29
DocScrutinizertakes current from USB charger immediately on plugin01:29
lardmanwithout booting the kernel presumably?01:30
DocScrutinizerindicator flashing, device won't boot up to full system01:30
kimjuI think dm8tbr already tested that it can charge even cell that gives 0V after its internal protection circuit has kicked in01:31
DocScrutinizerafter a few moments fast flashing changes to slow pulsing breathing light - systim will boot up01:31
MohammadAGis the notification LED used for anything besides indicating charging?01:32
lcukDocScrutinizer, that sounds similar01:34
lcukto how my battery got01:34
lardmanMohammadAG: I wish it would indicate missed calls/sms01:34
DocScrutinizerwell, *is* it used? nobody can answer this question. Shall it get used? prolly not as the N9 has no LED at all01:36
MohammadAGlardman, so it doesn't?01:37
DocScrutinizerno missed calls, definitely01:37
MohammadAGwhy does mce.ini have the led patterns then01:37
VenemoDocScrutinizer, N9 has led.01:38
lardmanMohammadAG: I've not seen it do anything other than charging indication01:38
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lardmanwhat is the N9 screen? Doesn't that have per-pixel lighting so you could actually switch pixels on as indications01:39
lardmannot sure what the power requirement would be for that, assuming I'm right about the tech01:39
DocScrutinizerlardman: yes01:40
Venemoas for differences between N9 and N950 (and some interesting glitches in N950 sw) see
DocScrutinizerlcuk: was this you who claimed your device wasn't recovering from deep discharge?01:41
lcukDocScrutinizer, affirmative01:43
lcukand a new battery cured it instantly01:43
DocScrutinizerlcuk: what were the detailed symptoms?01:44
lcukfrom usb01:44
lcukit would throb01:44
lcukand solid light in 1/3 times tried01:45
lcukfrom wallwart, it would show screen+usb icon01:45
lcukthen after a few seconds go off again01:45
lcukcould not get it to work01:45
lcukso ordered a replacement battery and was happy01:45
DocScrutinizerprobably cell defect then01:47
lcukDocScrutinizer, it happened the day after i flashed it01:48
lcukperhaps extended period on flasher had issue01:48
DocScrutinizerI can't see any relation01:48
lcukwhen it is in flashing mode01:49
lcukdoes bme operate?01:49
DocScrutinizerfor sure not01:49
lcukor will device theoretically just stay powered up as long as possible01:49
DocScrutinizershould shut down hard at ~3.30V01:49
DocScrutinizermaybe 2.80V, not sure right now01:49
lcukanyway, issue resolved01:49
lcukmoved on01:49
DocScrutinizermight have some power-off issue with a subsystem still drawing current from cell until it dies01:50
DocScrutinizerpower-off from flashing mode quite possibly doesn't care properly about shutdown of all autonomously powered subsystems01:51
DocScrutinizercorrections: prior to fast flashing of LED, there are some seconds of steady light, just like on N900 emergency recovery charging01:55
DocScrutinizerthat's on wallcharger with D+/- short01:55
lardmanso to change topic slightly, what's the best run-time method to determine what device you're on?01:55
lardman /proc/component_version used to work, but no longer, so something like /proc/cpuinfo ??01:56
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kimjumore random notes, after manually adding the _aegis into .deb, hexdump shows all the filenames in deb are ending in / character. with aegis-deb-add there is no /01:58
lardmananyone here with an N9 handy?02:01
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lardmanif so, could we see the output of /proc/cpuinfo please?02:02
kimjubut between aegis-deb-add and aegis-deb-util, I don't see any differences (at least not yet), except different timestamps of files inside control/data.tar.gz.02:02
lardmannamely the Hardware: description line02:02
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* lardman curses random error messages02:18
lardmanwell seemingly random anyway02:18
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Venemojoppu, can you make a larger version of the icon? for the splash screen of the app02:32
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Venemorzr, ping03:04
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asys3@javispedro: did you already port libSDLimage, too? Or do you plan to port it?03:16
rzrVenemo: ack03:18
Venemorzr, you left #irc-chatter while I have some important news for you there03:21
rzri'll be back soon or later :)03:22
rzrbut now i am about to go03:22
VenemoFYI, I've pushed a v0.1.103:22
rzri'll rebuild it next week03:22
Venemowut? next week?03:22
rzror this comming weekend03:23
Venemowhy so late?03:23
rzri'll may be busy03:23
Venemowell anyway, take your time :)03:23
rzrthx again03:24
rzri promoted it :)03:24
rzrnow i am gone03:24
Venemowe've added port settings and ssl03:24
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rZryes someone told me03:24
rZrthat's good03:24
Venemojust pinged you becasue I know you asked for these :)03:24
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speciali'm sure this is a FAQ, but: is there any way to execute a random binary without going through all of the packaging mess?04:01
Venemospecial, yes.04:01
specialit doesn't seem to be develsh or 'aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec'04:02
Venemospecial, 'apt-get install aegis-dev-mode' then 'devel-su', root pw, then 'develsh' and '/usr/sbin/aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec'04:03
specialdid so, binary is ugo+x, but it still says "operation not permitted"04:04
Venemonote that you can execute them as user, but not as root04:05
specialstill not having any luck04:07
specialah, reboot was needed04:12
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: aegis-dev-mode?04:26
DocScrutinizerdid somebody package the aegis killer hack now?04:27
VenemoDocScrutinizer, no, this package has been there from the beginning04:28
VenemoDocScrutinizer, not sure what exactly it does.04:29
DocScrutinizerso at least it should be clear what it provides, no?04:29
special!/jbrooks_/status/103278237723013120/photo/1 quassel2go :)04:34
specialLooks terrible, but it's a start04:37
Venemospecial, if you're working with QML, feel free to use my IRC gui04:40
specialVenemo: all i've done so far is get it to build and run as-is04:42
Venemospecial, aah.04:42
Venemospecial, are you working together with that  unpronoucably-named guy?04:43
specialI'd love to work with anyone who is interested04:45
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Venemospecial, or is this you?
Venemosgiessl was the nick that someone told me was working on it04:47
specialthat isn't me, no04:48
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Venemoso then there are two of you who're working on it04:48
Venemospecial, in the meantime, you can also check out :)04:48
specialI've seen it, haven't tried it yet. I plan to.04:49
specialyou've got no chance of luring me away from quassel, though :p04:50
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VenemoI'm not intending to, just wanna give pointers to help.04:50
specialbetter UI would be a very nice thing.04:52
Venemotell me more about quassel04:52
Venemowhy is it special?04:53
specialit separates clients from the "core"04:53
specialyou can connect multiple clients to your core, and it maintains connections, backlogs, activity, etc.04:53
Venemoand the "core" acts as an IRC server?04:53
specialThat line was written on my mac. This is the n950.04:54
special(mac again) no, the core speaks its own protocol with the client. It's not a classic IRC bouncer, it's much more seamless than that04:54
Venemoand where could I run the core? I have no server for this purpose.04:54
SpeedEvilAny computer you choose as the core04:55
specialYou could run one from your home too04:55
specialI use the server because it never goes down.04:55
specialquassel is amazing if you switch between machines and want IRC the same everywhere; it's like the next-generation irssi+screen.04:56
SpeedEvilIs there a text-mode client?04:57
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Venemospecial, I think that my app could benefit from being also a quassel frontend. then users could select whether they want to connect to an IRC server or a quassel core.04:57
Venemospecial, what do you think?04:57
specialthat would be interesting, though difficult04:58
Venemospecial, difficult in what regard?04:58
special*everything* about the IRC state is done in the core, including some things that would make for difficult design decisions.04:58
Venemowell, that is not really a problem.04:59
Venemosince my GUI is QML04:59
Venemoyou only need to write 2 simpe model classes for your quassel backend, and you're good to go.04:59
specialer, sorry.05:01
Venemospecial, if you feel like, we can discuss this further in #irc-chatter :)05:02
Venemospecial, but I think both of us would benefit from this. most notably, you wouldn't need to write a GUI :)05:03
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Venemowell, think about it05:05
VenemoI'll go to sleep now05:05
Venemogood night to you :)05:05
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GAN950Venemo_N950, congrats. SIM's going back in.06:20
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hiemanshuGAN950: did you grab 0.1.1?06:27
GAN950Strings need work. :P06:28
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hiemanshuwell yeah it needs a little work06:29
hiemanshuwe are working on that :P06:29
GAN950Well hurry up, you're almost at 0.1.2!06:30
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GAN950scrollable tab bar is a nice touch06:31
hiemanshuGAN950: well patches are more than welcome at any time :)06:34
GAN950Yeah, I'll have to clone the repo.06:35
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hiemanshusure, if you want to do something, ping me or Venemo06:37
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hiemanshu_N950GAN900, the only issue i have with it is multi server support, that should be added in the next version though06:45
hiemanshu_N950and it works perfect even with the vkb06:46
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* special winces07:01
special"That security code's wrong"07:02
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djszapi|windowslbt: it now hangs here after 15 hours:
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mecegrr argh my n950 absolutely refuses to automatically check for mail...10:26
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mecemgedmin, ping10:33
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meceperhaps someone else knows this? I seem to recall mgedmin had an improved version of xterm (where you can launch more than one instance) somewhere, but I can't find it now.10:35
tommamece, i have same problem.... i think it started after i modified accounts to fetch mails outside of peak-time10:39
mecetomma, well good to know it's not just me then :)10:42
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lardmannot on holiday Stskeeps?10:58
lardmando we know what the N9 processor will be? If so, and if anyone has one handy, could they post the output of /proc/cpuinfo (just the hardware line is enough) please?11:00
* lardman needs a way or recognising an N9 at runtime11:00
fralslardman: i would assume cpu is same as n95011:01
Stskeepslardman: was last week11:02
lardmanfrals: ok, I'm really after the description of the board codename, etc.11:02
lardmanStskeeps: ah ok11:03
fralsQSystemInfo::deviceName should return N9 (or is it productName?)11:03
fralswhatever gives you N950 on N950 should give you N9 on N9 ;)11:04
lardmanah I'd forgotten about Qt methods, I'll give that a go11:05
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djszapiHow can I enable a package on the community OBS ?11:29
meceanyone have luck pairing bluetooth keyboard to N950?11:31
mecefrals, did you try qlister?11:31
mikhas_mece, I dont think it'll work11:34
mikhas_what I mean by that: we stopped working on that feature some time ago, and now it just rots away11:35
mecemikhas_, a wha? Why?11:40
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meceugh gotta head out. tata.11:43
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ajalkanethat kinda sucks. Even n8 can do bt kb :). Any realistic chance on getting that with some future firmware update?11:46
Venemo_N950thank you joppu :)11:47
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mikhas_ajalkane, I already see two complaining about it, now what is the chance that one of them will provide a patch?11:48
mariobAnyone knows something about ShareUI?11:49
Venemo_N950if anyone had any doubts about where it's going11:51
Venemo_N950I received a mail from nokia developer11:52
Venemo_N950"free Microsoft AppHub registration for nokia developer programs members"11:52
rcg1Venemo_N950: ditto11:53
mariobVenemo_N950: Me too, I just mailed and asked them to NOT send anything regarding WP/MS, only MeeGo Qt stuff11:53
Venemo_N950well since I develop for WP7 too, this may come in handy!11:54
djszapiI would actually be happy with a Windows Phone and experimenting...11:54
tommamariob, i have used ShareUiInterface11:54
mariobtomma: Have you tried just share som piece of text? The e-mail doesn't get so well formatted. You get the title and description in the body11:55
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lcukmorning \o11:55
djszapiWindows Phone was way muuuuch better than meego ever last October.11:55
ajalkanemikhas_: from me, close to zero, not enough knowledge :). But if its patchable by us and not in binary blob I'm not worried anymore11:56
tommamariob, just files11:56
mariobdjszapi: If I can't use any platform as development platform I'm not interested. I don't like lockins :)11:56
mikhas_ajalkane, all public sauce11:56
mariobtomma: Ok, I suppose that works well11:56
djszapimariob: huh ?11:56
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lcukmorning leinir \o11:57
mariobdjszapi: WP is MS platform only both deply and devel.11:57
djszapimariob: not sure what you mean.11:57
ajalkanemikhas_: great, thanks!11:57
mikhas_the app store names getting shittier and shittier11:57
leinirlcuk: Hello from GDC Europe :)11:57
mikhas_AppHub, really?11:57
lcukleinir, \o/ enjoy the gaming11:58
Venemo_N950djszapi, yeah. when I first saw WP7, I thought, how dumb it is. but I realized that it has an easy-to-use, user-friendly UI which can certainly appeal to people.11:58
djszapiI loved Windows Phone over meego in October.11:58
djszapiit just worked muuuuch better :)11:58
mikhas_also, Nokia was able to sell Symbian devices. But that was last year.11:59
djszapiAlso, it was easier to write third-party application.11:59
Venemo_N950yeah, Silverlight can be fun.11:59
djszapiand since meego is not open as it is said, I do not see too much difference anyway from my pov.11:59
mariobdjszapi: MeeGo is open, Harmattan not12:00
djszapias a third-party application developer.12:00
djszapimariob: no it is not, decisions are made behind the wall.12:00
mariobdjszapi: The same goes for any project, someone has to decide the roadmap12:00
djszapimariob: sure, but I can be there at a KDE developer sprint :)12:01
mariobdjszapi: The difference is if you can use the code the way you want or not12:01
djszapior at a linux decision, discussion12:01
djszapiit is not really the case with so many meego things.12:01
mariobdjszapi: Ok, I see your point12:01
djszapiI am not a code monkey, sure I can help them with coding, but that is not really the challanging part :)12:01
Venemo_N950well, it's still open source at least.12:02
mariobVenemo_N950: And you are free to use the code in any way you want12:02
djszapiI think he is12:02
djszapibut he cannot really decide12:03
djszapihe cannot even be there when the discussion is ongoing, and that is sad. As for me, it means the openness.12:03
djszapiYou may already know the plasma-active project, well that is open.12:03
mariobdjszapi: Yes, I'm actually considering buying a WeTab to run it :)12:05
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djszapimariob: you can also run it on ExoPC if you happen to attend to an Intel AppUp :)12:06
djszapiI would have already ported it to Harmattan, if cobs lalalala :)12:06
Venemo_N950djszapi, what is plasma-active? some sort of mobile KDE?12:07
mariobdjszapi: No, I'm not a of those lucky guys owning the ExoPC :(12:07
ajalkanejust checked plasma active video, looks promising12:09
djszapic-obs does not think so ;-)12:09
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djszapiVenemo_N950: we also had native development stuff to Windows last October12:12
djszapieverything was given to port Qt :)12:13
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joppuVenemo_N950: if you need some design with the splash, I'd be glad to help12:35
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rcg1work work..12:40
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Venemo_N950joppu, I've already made a splash, but if you can do it better, I will be happy to use yours :)13:00
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alteregorZr: ping, could you build gst-tools ?13:27
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Venemo_N950morning alterego:)13:37
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rZralterego: i fear this will bring the whole gnome along , if not send a me a link to .dsc file rzr(a)gna.org13:53
Venemoalterego, have you seen the first Harmattan IRC client?13:54
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alteregoVenemo: nope :)13:58
Venemoalterego, it just happens to be written by me :P check out
Venemoalterego, it would be very nice if you could try it :)13:59
deimosVenemo,  I have just updated it this morning ;)14:01
rZrthat app is cool14:01
Venemodeimos, do you like the new one better? :)14:02
VenemorZr, thank you very much :)14:02
deimosyes I like it, it put the icon on desktop now ;)14:03
deimosI try to connect now14:03
Venemoon desktop? what desktop?14:03
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deimoson applications list I mean14:04
Venemoah, thanks :)14:04
deimosbefore I didnt have an icon for the app14:04
Venemooh. the icon should be installed by the package.14:04
deimoshi deimos-n950 :)14:05
deimos-n950hi deimos !!!14:05
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mikhasopening an URL is supposed to happen through libcontentaction:
KypeliBut it's not in the beta SDK14:41
KypeliYou need to manually add it there for Madde to find it14:41
mikhashappy b-day, Kypeli14:42
KypeliHeh, thank you! :)14:42
macmaNhow trivial is it to diff n950 device /etc/ssl contents with firmware download contents of the same dir14:45
macmaNi guess it boils down to "is it simple to extract the fw image"14:46
mgoetzDoes PageStackWindow handle orientation? Or is that related to the QMLViewer?14:53
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w00t_mgoetz: components handles it14:55
w00t_I don't know exactly what part..14:55
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alteregostarted prototyping ux for my guitar chord dictionary app:
Venemoalterego, looks nice, despite the fact that I have no idea about guitars.15:08
radiofreealterego: so i select "A" and I flick through the various A chords? (#, b, minor etc..)15:10
alteregoradiofree: that's one possibility.15:10
alteregoI'm still contemplating how to make the chord selection easier, the flick through is meant for variations, but possibly not different tonal variations.15:11
radiofreethat would look cool, but having a quick way to access a specific chord would be great as well15:11
alteregoradiofree: yeah15:11
radiofreeyes, flicking for variations whould be the best15:11
radiofreeits just i couldn't see how you'd select Ab from the mockup :P15:11
alteregoYeah, like I said, I'm currently thinking about that aspect :)15:12
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lardmanwhat's fenix?15:22
djszapiemail application15:23
lardmanah ok, thanks15:23
mikhasJaffa, nice MWN issue15:26
mikhasI liked your take on the N9 launch plans, spot on.15:26
lardmanhow does one get the dbus daemon to reload its conf files?15:29
lardmanas /etc/init.d/dbus* is not there these days15:29
alteregolardman: guessing it's upstart15:31
djszapilardman: /etc/init/dbus.conf15:32
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lardmanyeah it's upstart, but how does one get the daemon to reload the conf file?15:34
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lardmanother than rebooting, which seems a bit Windows-ish15:34
mgoetzw00t_: hm, but it doesn't do any rotation for me.. in QEMU that is. the QEMU window is rotated, the QML inside it still shows the way like before..15:35
djszapilardman: check out the event mechanism of that upstart job...15:36
djszapidbus-send --print-reply --system --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig or something like that ?15:41
rcg1lardman: does sending a SIGHUP to dbus do the trick?15:43
rcg1dbus-daemon that is15:45
rcg1or whatever the process is15:45
lardmandjszapi: thanks, though I gave up and rebooted in the end15:47
lardmanrcg1: I'll try that next time15:47
DocScrutinizerindeed, usually daemons shall re-initialize on SIGHUP15:47
lardmanhmm, still I don't seem to be able to see method calls15:54
lardmanI tried this:
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lcukDefining the requirements for a MeeGo-CE
* lardman decides to try the Qt open url function instead15:57
lcuklardman, i have managed to build a bridge in liqbase which allows content generated on handheld to be synchronised to my big device15:58
lcukin amongst this thinking is an aim to storing other information in the media stream15:59
lcukwhen you get a build of mbarcode I would like to find out how workable using barcodes in this stream would be15:59
lcukso for instance whilst shopping you photograph a few16:00
lcukand when you get home on your big pc they are listed16:00
alteregoThink I might move all my phones over to O2 ..16:00
alteregoI get much better signal with them.16:00
djszapilcuk I think they should focus for one working system first, to be honest16:01
djszapiN900 and meego ce was quite unusable last time we tried.16:01
lcukdjszapi, of course16:02
lcukand focusing efforts is good16:02
lcukas shown by the n900-ce16:02
djszapilcuk in my understand, it defeats most of the time if people try to focus on X devices without working one. I would not call N900 a working one when we last checked few weeks ago.16:04
alteregodjszapi: why would you not say it "works" it makes phone calls doesn't it?16:06
alteregoBattery life is reasonible too.16:06
djszapia smart phone software is not equal to, okay you can now make a call, ship it :)16:06
alteregoWho said anything about shipping it? Sure it lacks polish not many apps etc, but still. As the platform it is intended to be it works reasonibly.16:07
djszapifairly way veeeeeeeeeeery slow16:08
* GAN900 yawns tiredly16:08
GAN900Ever get the feeling it's gonna be one of those days?16:08
alteregoMost of that is hardware limitation.16:08
djszapiexcept the design limitation16:08
alteregobtw, if the N9 is selling in these weird places, for the ridiculous amount they're asking, I'm guessing it wont sell too well :/16:09
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djszapiwell, it is obviously not a purpose.16:09
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djszapififerboy o/ :)16:09
fiferboy\o djszapi16:09
fiferboyI'm looking for QML help today :)16:10
lcukdjszapi, how well does kde work on the n900?16:10
djszapilcuk: I already showed you weeks ago ?16:10
lcukdjszapi, so how well does it run purely on meego-ce?16:11
djszapias for me, meego-ce is dead xD16:11
lcukI do not know what is different between maemo and meego but the performance is something which is being actively poked around with16:11
lcukdjszapi, you do not seem to like many things16:11
djszapiI mean I spent more months with it in the beginning and there was zero progress. On the other hand, my serious bugreports were underprioritized after all. I cannot take it seriously.16:11
djszapiIt seems they got lower priority after a while meaning that maybe resource issue or something like that.16:12
fiferboyI have a QDeclarativeItem and I implementing the paint function16:12
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lcukdjszapi, what do other kde developers think of your meego issues?16:13
fiferboyI have antialiasing turned on, but the circle I draw is still aliased as hell16:13
djszapilcuk: I like harmattan, it works. Meego did not, c-obs does not.16:13
djszapilcuk: don't you like the working things ? :)16:13
lcukdjszapi, meego grows stronger day by day16:13
lcukand whilst progress may be slower in general16:13
lcukthat is due to resources16:13
djszapilcuk: my bugreports are still there, the only "stron progress" is that they got lower priority, but the same issues still.16:13
GAN900djszapi, "I hope all of your bug reports will be ignored"16:13
lcukdjszapi, the open meego can continue and grow stronger with the dedicated work of the teams16:14
lcukby teamwork16:14
djszapilcuk keep waiting =)16:15
djszapiI just harmattan, ok ? :)16:15
* lcuk will be trying to get n950-ce running next few days16:15
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fiferboyAnyone know about QDeclarativeItem paint methods? :)16:15
lcukfiferboy, is it actually aliased16:16
lcukdue to rendering16:16
lcukor due to the screen design16:16
lcukcan you take a screenshot and show16:16
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fiferboylcuk: If I paint it on a QPixmap and draw the pixmap on the painter it looks smooth16:16
fiferboyThere is a difference when drawing directly to the painter, but I'm not sure why since I draw the exact same thing to the pixmap16:17
lcukfiferboy, is the pixmap being scaled?16:18
lcukie is that where the percieved AA is coming from16:18
djszapi16:14 < lcuk> djszapi, the open meego can continue and grow stronger with the dedicated work of the team -> Please show me the "open" meego.16:18
lcukmeego n900-ce16:18
fiferboylcuk: No, I am drawing it to the rendered size16:18
fiferboyThe pixmap is smoothed properly with no aliasing16:19
djszapilcuk: which was initially driven by Nokia ?16:19
fiferboyBut if I draw the circle directly to the painter it is very chunky16:19
djszapilcuk: decisions behind the scenes ?16:19
lcukdjszapi, the n900 adaption team started process long ago  and the CE grew out of community pressure and expectation to have a "developer edition"16:21
lcukie meego should be usable by developers to build from16:21
GAN900It's all a little academic since neither seem headed anywhere useful.16:21
djszapilcuk: if you had ever had experience either with Linux kernel or KDE, you could have known it is fairly far away from "open".16:23
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djszapiabout kde and meego, well there are videos on youtube, I guess.16:23
djszapiit worked pretty nicely for fremantle, at least (as I sent the screenshots to you previously)16:24
lardmanlcuk: sorry for the slow response, was sanding a table16:31
djszapilcuk: why are you asking about kde ?16:31
lardmanlcuk: photoanalyser is up and running, though it looks like the upstart stuff hasn't worked16:31
lardmanmbarcode-lite is running, but just Harmattanising the plugins16:32
lcukdjszapi, I am interested16:32
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djszapijavispedro o/ :)16:33
djszapijavispedro: same result, got stuck with -j116:33
djszapilcuk: what might make sense is to create a completely open meego-like project not driven by any company behind the scenes, just by community.16:36
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Stskeepsmoo javispedro16:43
alteregodjszapi: surely that's sort of what we're doing with MeeGo.16:43
alteregoThe problem is, until we had jukka and makoto from Nokia the N900 adaptation didn't really have much of a focus above the middle and ux layers.16:44
fiferboyalterego: Do you do any custom paintin gin QML?16:44
alteregofiferboy: I do in Columbus yeah16:44
fiferboyalterego: Is that through QDeclarativeItem?16:44
djszapialterego: I have never seen any public sprints, to be honest.16:45
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javispedrohello Stskeeps16:45
* javispedro curses16:45
djszapialterego: just like kde pim, calligra and others...16:46
javispedroon Harmattan, DRI2 is double buffered when the app is fullscreen, but always singlebuffered otherwise :(16:46
Stskeepsflip chains, probably16:46
alteregofiferboy: indeed16:46
fiferboyalterego: How do you handle antialiasing?16:47
fiferboyalterego: Do you draw directly on the painter provided?16:47
alteregoYes, I use the painter provided.16:47
fiferboyalterego: If I do "drawEllipse" on that painter, even with antialiasing turned on, it is horribly aliased in my app16:47
alteregoHow are you creating your view?16:48
fiferboyThrough main.cpp16:48
fiferboynew QDeclarativeView16:48
javispedroStskeeps: I am seeing that it is actually glClear who waits for a swap when it is nonfullscreen (not DRI2 SwapBuffers as one'd expect).16:48
fiferboyThen view->setSource()16:48
alteregoHrm, admittedly I've not tried my stuff on device yet so I can't say for sure whether or not I'm having a similar issue. Hang on a few minutes and let me mock something up.16:48
fiferboyalterego: :D16:49
javispedroand the logic behind glClear is not clear and it waits for sgx_misr to do something,16:49
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javispedroso therefore I consider non-fullscreen vsync without using GLES rather impossible :(16:49
Stskeepsfor gles you'd want to avoid composite anyway, ie, fullscreen16:50
lcukdoes that mean that vsync is not possible for normal apps?16:50
javispedroyes, I managed to do that very well already16:50
lcukStskeeps, do you mean fullscreen as in any app with that little thin topbar?16:50
lcukor totally fullscreen16:50
javispedroDRI2 GetBuffers returns me a PVR2D handle, I map it -- et voila, native 72fps (that seems to be the LCD rate?)16:51
javispedrothe issue is when it is non fullscreen, as GetBuffers returns me a SysV IPC. Only one. There's no back buffer.16:51
lcukStskeeps, so that little topbar (what is its official name) prevents it16:51
Stskeepslcuk: system bar is drawn by the app i think16:52
javispedros/SysV IPC/SysV SHM16:52
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lcukStskeeps, then why does it intefere with vsync16:52
lcukif the app is technically fullscreen16:52
javispedrolcuk: that is one problem of mine, I mean, it works very well when fullscreen, but the moment you swipe it out a millimiter, it is already composited, and heavy tearing appears16:53
lcuka shame16:54
lcuktearing is the historical achilles heel of maemo16:54
MohammadAGShouldn't pointers not be used in main.cpp?16:54
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mikhasMohammadAG, huh?16:55
mikhasjavispedro, try oversizing your top level window16:55
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, hmm? why not?16:55
mikhasoh wait, now I got you javispedro16:56
alteregofiferboy: out of curiosity, have you set the "smooth" attribute?16:57
javispedromikhas: :)16:58
MohammadAGVenemo_N950, not sure, but all examples I've seen had objects created on the stack16:58
fiferboyalterego: Yes, I have tried it with and without that16:59
fiferboyalterego: If I draw my cirlce to a pixmap and then draw the pixmap to the painter it is smooth like I want it16:59
javispedrolcuk: to make it clear: it works with GL, there's no tearing (albeit the framerate is inconsistent); it's when I want to avoid GL (2D) that it tears.16:59
fiferboyBut drawing directly to the painter with the same commands leaves it aliased16:59
xarcassMohammadAG: what about this? QDeclarativeView* view( MDeclarativeCache::qDeclarativeView() ); - it's from examples16:59
alteregofiferboy: interesting, probably something annoying with compositing :/17:00
lcukjavispedro, is this using xv-rgb?17:00
alteregoHave you tried asking @ #qt-qml ?17:00
fiferboyGoing there now17:00
javispedrolcuk: I didn't try that yet, but I did read the driver and I suspect it will fail similarly17:00
javispedro(well, the old driver that is)17:00
MohammadAGxarcass, that's just a pointer to an existing instance17:00
javispedroeither way, seems that there's a way to access the texture streaming sgx functionality17:01
javispedroeglLockSurfaceKHR :)17:01
lcukworth a try17:02
javispedroso I guess i'll use that combined with GL ...17:02
javispedroor maybe consider non-fullscreen tearing unavoidable and do it via DRI2 either way.17:05
Jaffamikhas: Thanks17:05
rcg1xarcass: shouldn't this read QDeclarativeView *window = MDeclarativeCache::qDeclarativeView(); ?17:05
* javispedro realizes that all of this means the raster qt graphicssystem also has tearing, but since it is not usually used for animations, it's probably OK.17:06
fiferboyalterego: Lively bunch in #qt-qml :)17:08
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alteregoYeah, they come in waves :P17:08
lcukjavispedro, not used for list panning?17:08
javispedrolcuk: only when in the thumbnail view17:09
javispedroI can guess that they do not double buffering of minimized apps to save memory, and that what the glClear blocking does is to wait for mcompositor to swap buffers then hope the application finishes rendering before the next mcompositor swap.17:15
lcukjavispedro, the apps do not know they are in thumbnail mode do they?17:16
lcukie they continue to render at fullsize17:16
lcuk(since thumbnails can be resized dynamically)17:16
javispedrothey know, but afaik they continue to render at fullsize17:16
lcukwhich when you have 9 apps doing it17:17
lcukis amazingly wasteful17:17
Venemo_N950MohammadAG, you can create em on the heap too, but you need to delete them, and that's it17:17
javispedrolcuk: I do not think they _all_ render (especially if they are not animating anything) though.17:17
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alteregoIs there any way to get the backlight to stay on whilst it's charging?17:20
alteregoI'm getting bored of all this swiping when testing a new version of my app ;)17:20
* javispedro is happy with the tearlessness of fullscreen apps though, an application that fills the fb with green, then black, then swaps, then red, then white, then swaps looks as a consistent gray on the N95017:20
javispedroit was a horrible red/white/black/green mess on the N900 ;)17:20
alteregoThat should work the same on the N900 with MeeGo CE :P17:22
xarcassrcg1: my point was that these both (window and view) are pointers, there's nothing wrong to use them, even though I don't know where they are allocated17:23
javispedroalterego: indeed.17:23
lcukjavispedro, it depends if the app sleeps during thumbview17:23
lcukmany do17:23
lcukI was playing snake17:23
lcukand that continues to run if you go the dashboard17:23
lcukfor instance17:23
javispedrolcuk: have linkie?17:24
javispedrolcuk: thanks!17:25
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javispedrolcuk: "running: activeGame// && runtime.isActiveWindow" ;)17:26
javispedrolcuk: so he can easily make it pause when backgrounding, he's just decided not to do that :)17:26
lcukjavispedro, sure17:28
lcukjust the observation though17:28
lcukmany other apps continue17:28
lcuklike the compass etc17:28
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mikhaslcuk, when in background/minimized, the FPS goes down17:43
mikhasthat's how the wastage of running "fullscreen" is reduced17:44
lcukmikhas, ahh17:44
lcukwho does the slowdown stuff17:44
lcukor is that simply because 9 apps are rendering at once?17:44
lcuksort of auto accelerator17:45
lardmananyone know how to open the maps app at a given location?17:45
mikhasno, there's some logic in MeeGoTouchHome for that17:46
lcukmikhas, good to hear17:46
MohammadAGlardman, prolly dbus, sec17:48
lardmanMohammadAG: You have a list?17:48
lardmanmight be possible to open as a mime type17:50
lardmanah indeed a mime type17:51
lardmanthanks :)17:51
MohammadAGlardman, normal exec, maps [-u <GEO_URI>] [--no-positioning] [--antialiasing-on] [--help]17:51
alteregofiferboy: I can't seem to get antialiasing to work either, I think the reason I didn't notice this before, is because I actually use a pixmap buffer for my Columbus widgets anyway ..17:52
* lardman looks at format of geo: uri17:52
javispedromikhas: in home? but then the application does not notice that?17:52
MohammadAGmaps -u "geo:59.4366,24.7686?action=showOnMapByLocation"17:52
MohammadAGas per the sample, seems like lon,lat17:52
MohammadAGerr, lat,long17:53
javispedromikhas: as said when minimized it does not do doublebuf so SwapBuffers is a noop, so there's no blocking, so I can easily go up to 400fps if I don't sleep manually.17:53
javispedroin the webOS SDL itself is the one that does sleep() when minimized.17:54
lardmanMohammadAG: yep, just found that in the vCard profile17:54
lardmanthanks again17:54
mikhasjavispedro, hmph, might only apply to users of MSceneWindow/MWindow then17:54
mikhasie, LMT apps …17:54
javispedroso I should ideally add some framerate limiter17:54
* javispedro goes find a round number17:54
javispedroactually in my tests that also helped with tearing17:55
mikhaswell, we should ideally ask the authors/architects of MeeGoTouchHome17:55
javispedronamely sleeping right after the swapbuffers call, probably because it increased the chances of the mcompositor flip happening during the sleep time17:55
javispedros/probably/surely ;)17:55
mikhasjavispedro, 400 FPS is nice17:57
mikhasplain QWidget I think I once got to 200FPS?17:57
mikhasjavispedro, yeah, sounds logical17:58
javispedro400fps without doing anything of course ;)17:59
javispedroeven just clearing the buffers takes it down to 300fps17:59
javispedrowithout doing anything means calling getbuffers, mmaping it, and calling swapbuffers.17:59
javispedroboth calls are X11 roundtrips18:00
javispedrowhen the window is full screen, swapbuffers _does_ block to somewhere around 72fps.18:02
fiferboyalterego: pixmap buffer?18:05
MohammadAGqrc:/qml/TextButton.qml:6:5: Cannot override FINAL property <-- any ideas what this means?18:06
javispedroso, to sum it up, my options to do vsynced 2D on SDL are: DRI2 (pros: fast, potentially accelerated blits; cons: tearing in swipeout/thumbnail), or GL (pros: free rotation, cons: wasteful in both memory and time).18:06
mikhasyeah ok, if you avoid the X11 roundtrips … ;-(18:06
mikhaser, ;-)18:06
lardmananyone know offhand whether QDesktopServices::openURL() handles vcard: ?18:06
javispedromikhas: nono, the roundtrips are there, but they are noops in the server UNLESS it is fullscreen18:07
mikhasyes, got that18:07
javispedroaka you can do up to 800 X11 roundtrips per second ;)18:07
MohammadAGlardman, depends on the platform18:07
lardmanMohammadAG: N95018:07
MohammadAGif the platform has vcard files mapped to an app, it works18:07
mikhaslardman, have you checked libcontentaction?18:07
MohammadAGlardman, try opening a vcard in a filemanager like minifile18:07
lardmanmikhas: no, I was just enquiring before I start testing, just in case someone knows18:08
lardmanthe other option is qtm-versit18:08
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alteregoHeh, managed to memorise the incantation for opening camera for "quick" snaps now :D18:11
* MohammadAG finds it annoying that the device has to be top-up for the quick launch menu to show up18:12
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fiferboyalterego: So your method (pixmap buffer) of displaying widgets in QML aliases them correctly?18:18
alteregofiferboy: seems to yeah.18:18
fiferboyalterego: And how do you go about pixmap buffering?18:19
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alteregofiferboy: just draw to the pixmap and blit it, I thought you'd already done that?18:22
alteregoI don't have the code off hand so I can't show you my example unfortunately :/18:22
fiferboyalterego: Yeah, I am in the process of doing that, I was hoping your method was changing the QPaintDevice or something :)18:23
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fiferboyGah, I'm losing about 2 pixels of the top of my pixmap now!18:49
fiferboyWho took my pixels?18:50
* GAN900 flees.18:51
fiferboyI knew it!18:52
* javispedro hulks out and destroys all your precious vsynced blittings and brings you TEARING IN ALL ITS GLORY!18:52
javispedroWARNING: potentially seizure inducing.18:52
javispedro(if you run it that is)18:53
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mikhaseviljavispedro …18:53
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javispedrothat sample works fine if you run qmlviewer with -frameless -fullscreen -opengl18:58
javispedroanything else produces funny results. checkerboard patterns, half the screen black the other white, etc.18:59
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javispedroand it runs fine in the thumbnail view because it calls GLES2's glClear.19:02
javispedrobeatiful gray.19:07
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javispedroI can see that Nokia had severe problems making vsync work =)19:08
javispedrothe EGL extension registry is full of Nokia extensions that seemingly have not been used19:08
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lcukjavispedro, it is a difficult problem19:12
javispedrohave to agree, specially if compositing19:12
lcukjavispedro, lighthouse + wayland are aiming to simplify such matters19:14
lcukdifferent tracks but hopefully coming together around time of qt519:15
javispedrothey are already doing what they want with X11, so not that it'll change things much19:15
javispedroX11 is just at this point a rather large baggage, for example, running a harmattan app remotely is already probably impossible19:16
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javispedro("probably" because it might switch to raster graphicssystem which I assume will eventually call XPutImage, so it'll work. Albeit rather slowly.)19:17
javispedrotransferring uncompressed 854x480 framebuffer every frame is not exactly speedy ;)19:17
w00t_raster wouldn't do that unless you were redrawing everything though, because raster supports partial updates (unlike opengl)19:18
SpeedEvilI just tried running irc-chater showing to my laptop display.19:19
javispedrow00t_: only "native" calls x11 drawing primitives though?19:19
SpeedEvilQEgl::display(): Can't even open the default display19:19
SpeedEvilSegmentation fault (core dumped)19:19
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javispedroSpeedEvil: try -graphicssystem raster as a cmdline argument19:20
SpeedEvilIt worked! For very low values of work.19:21
javispedroslowly :)19:21
SpeedEvilPainted the window, but diddn't actually do anything in response to input19:22
javispedroah, I know that.19:22
javispedrovirtually the same reason why Diablo's task switcher button didn't work when VNC'd.19:22
javispedroit's expecting touch events I bet.19:23
* fiferboy found his pixels; calls off the manhunt for GAN19:23
javispedroso, as said, there are so many extensions and things that completely ignore the X11 protocol and either mmap memory or assume local in some either way that you'll probably actually enjoy the switch to Wayland.19:26
javispedrobecause the features you wanted from X11 will have been already lost.19:26
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* RST38h moos, throws dirt in javispedro's direction19:26
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* javispedro moos back.19:27
mikhassomething like that, yes19:28
mikhasand you will enjoy the balkanization that wayland provides19:28
mikhasit'll start all anew19:28
mikhasand soon we'll have a ICCCM for Wayland :-D19:28
javispedrohey, I love Atoms.19:29
RST38hnice heavy U235 atoms?19:29
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javispedrona, plain O will do.19:31
* javispedro goes out for some fresh air -- cya19:31
hiemanshu_N950rZr, around?19:32
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lardmanany thoughts as to how to get rid of CFLAGS -g in a Qt release build?19:41
lardmanexport CFLAGS perhaps19:42
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mgedminlardman, run strip on the built binaries?19:45
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mgedminusually the debian build process does that for you, via dh_strip19:45
lardmanyeah, looks like that's not the cause after all19:46
lardmanMy mbarcode-lite binary is ~3.3Mb in size, which seems pretty big19:46
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mgedminwas it statically linked perhaps?19:47
mgedminI forgot the command to see the sizes of various parts... objdump maybe?19:47
mgedminoh, /usr/bin/size19:48
lardmanshouldn't be statically linked, I'll try the size binary on it19:48
lardman[sbox-HARMATTAN_ARMEL: ~/build/HARMATTAN/lite/mbarcode-lite] > size ./builddir/mbarcode-lite19:49
lardman   text    data     bss     dec     hex filename19:49
lardman 202215    1920     560  204695   31f97 ./builddir/mbarcode-lite19:49
mgedmin200 kb ~= 3.3 mb, hmm19:50
infobotmgedmin meant: 200 kb != 3.3 mb, hmm19:50
lardman-rwxrwxr-x 1 simon libuuid 3335440 Aug 16 17:45 mbarcode-lite19:50
mgedminobjdump -h shows the sizes of each ELF section in hex19:52
mgedminhow geeky19:52
lardmanlong list19:54
lardmanlooks like the debug* stuff is quite large19:54
lardmanso perhaps it's not being stripped19:54
lardmanin fact I don't think it is, as I was happily able to get line numbers using gdb on-device19:55
mgedminthat does sound like the debug info is not being stripped19:58
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lardmananyone else seen this problem?20:01
fiferboylardman: Does your .pro file mention "release" or "debug" somewhere?20:02
lardmanfiferboy: I've stuck in an extra CONFIG += release20:03
lardmanbut I can't see how that will affect dh_strip, as adding that release "flag" doesn't alter the C/CXXFLAGS20:03
fiferboylardman: Yeah, but with release it shouldn't include it all in the first place AIUI20:05
lardmanyeah that's what I thought, but it doesn't seem to change the flags at all20:06
lardmanin fact the only way I could override the default -O2 -g was to set CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS on the command line as I call dpkg-buildpackage20:06
lardmanso manually running strip on the resultant binary works, and brings it down in size:20:08
lardman-rwxrwxr-x 1 simon libuuid 208808 Aug 16 18:07 mbarcode-lite20:08
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fiferboylardman: Are you using Qt Creator with this package?20:10
fiferboyDid you generate the packaging through it?20:10
lardmanyes and no20:10
lardmanlooking at a debian/rules that was generated using Qt Creator, I don't see any extra logic, and dh_strip is enabled20:12
fiferboylardman: During the build process does it seem to be running dh_strip?20:13
djszapi_fiferboy: give me power to copy/paste that really hackish tableview idea :)20:13
djszapi_I do not have any sake to do that :p20:14
lardmanyep, it certainly is listed in the output20:14
fiferboylardman: Really strange then20:14
fiferboydjszapi_: It would be cool to have20:14
lardmanah well, glad it's not me (or at least not obviously me anyway!)20:15
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fiferboylardman: Maybe the compiler thinks your code looks dodgy so refuses to strip it20:17
fiferboylardman: Although I was wishing I had mbarcode the other day when I found QR codes on a pill blister pack20:19
lardmanI've just uploaded a rather nasty looking version20:19
lardmani.e. Qt widgets20:19
lardmanthough I need to work out how to generate a Packages file20:20
lardmanand whether the plugins actually work ;)20:20
lardmanPhotoAnalyser is a daemon which waits for camera photos, then performs analysis on them20:21
fiferboyProper repo format doesn't matter to me because I have broken my apt-get functionality :)20:21
lardmanah ok20:21
lardmanah, now I remember that my upstarts stuff doesn't work for photoanalyser either, must fix that20:21
mgedminlardman, you can generate a Packages file by running dpkg-scanpackages:
mgedminI wonder how dh_strip finds out _which_ files to strip...20:23
lardmanmgedmin: The server is a Sun machine without any dpkg* binaries20:23
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mgedminalso, you can set an environment variable that disables stripping -- DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip20:23
lardmanunless I can generate it in my SB environment then upload the Packages.gz file that is20:24
rZrhiemanshu_N950: yes20:24
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lardmanmgedmin: I don't have that set20:24
mgedminyeah, I think scratchbox should have all the deb tools20:24
lardmanyeah it does, but does it require the exact path, or is it all relative?20:25
mgedminrelative, I'm sure20:25
lardmanmgedmin: your link doesn't exist, and also good to see 770 in the name just like me :)20:25
mgedminall my debs live in /home/mg/www/770/dists/..., and the web server definitely doesn't export any /home/mg/www bits20:25
mgedminlardman, sorry about the broken link, it's
mgedminthe grep -v bit was for when my laptop and my server had different versions of the tools, and I wanted to avoid spurious svn diffs when I reran that script on either20:26
mgedminor maybe maemo was unhappy with empty 'Suggests: ' lines in the resulting Packages file, I don't remember20:27
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lardmanah, I'd better upload the barcode decoders too20:31
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Stskeepshow's the mbarcode work going?20:31
Stskeeps(for n950)20:31
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lardmanStskeeps: it should all work now, but not pretty, still Qt Widget stuff20:34
lardmanhave been messing about with DBus, and wasted lots of time20:34
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lardmanI'm planning on doing a QML frontend tomorrow (assuming no baby arrives between now and then!)20:35
lardmanhmm, also need to sort out some deps from the looks of things20:37
lardmanas in control file deps20:37
lcuklardman, lol20:38
* lcuk remembers this period20:38
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lardmanwell it appears to work anyway, which is a good sign20:40
* lardman makes note of what to fix20:40
Venemojoppu, -> last ones are screenies of your icon20:41
lardmantwo things that are troublesome - .desktop file, does one need something specific in the exec line?20:41
Venemoeh, bad channel20:41
Venemolardman, depends.20:41
lardmanand upstart conf file, I have one but it doesn't seem to start my app20:41
Venemolardman, 1) full path of icon file is needed 2) if you want your app to be single-instance or have a splash screen, you need to use invoker in Exec20:41
lardmanVenemo: I get an icon, though it's red20:42
lardmanah ok  invoker20:42
Venemoif you don't give the full path to your icon file, then a red square will be displayed20:42
lardmanok, I'll fix that then20:43
lardmanre invoker, the examples I've seen have different switches and I've not seen an explanation of them20:43
lardmanor perhaps I can ask invoker itself20:43
Venemolardman, the magic is documented, would you believe it?20:43
Venemolardman, see
lardmanah great, I missed that completely, thanks20:44
Venemoit also provides a "booster" feature20:44
Venemowhich claims to boost startup time.20:44
Venemoread the link. "The invoker program and the applauncherd daemon help applications launch faster and save memory via shared resources and application type specific initializations."20:45
lardmanmagic then ;)20:45
lardmanany ideas on upstart?20:46
Venemonot really familiar with it20:46
Venemobut there was a thread on the ML20:46
Venemolardman, "Aegis - Upstart script not working in Harmattan" thread contains a lot of valuable info.20:47
mgedminlardman, invoker --single-instance doesn't work with apps that don't use QML, apparently20:47
lardmanyeah I followed that at least partly, but I should run the checker script too20:48
mgedminat least it didn't work with FBReader, which uses plain Qt20:48
mgedminI found /usr/bin/single-instance instead which worked like a charm20:48
lardmanthanks mgedmin20:48
Venemomgedmin, not true.20:49
mgedminVenemo, tell me more20:49
Venemoinvoker --single-instance should work for all kinds of apps20:49
Venemoeg. '/usr/bin/invoker --single-instance --splash=/usr/share/myApp/splash.jpg --type=q /usr/bin/myApp'20:50
mgedminVenemo, install fbreader and try an experiment20:50
mgedminthere are three possible values for --type (and invoker --help lists them)20:50
Venemo--type=q for "plain" qt apps, --type=d for QML apps20:50
mgedmintwo of them do not work with fbreader, maybe because it's not build as a position independent code?20:50
Venemoand there is a 3rd one.20:50
mgedminthe third one works, but has no special support for --single-instance20:51
VenemoI'm not sure.20:51
mgedmini..e clicking the launcher icon again opened me a second copy of fbreader20:51
Venemoall I can say is try what they recommend at the above link.20:51
mgedminand all I can say is that I've tried that and found it not to work with the firmware version on our N950s20:51
lardmanmgedmin: What does fbreader look like? Desktopish? Or is it full screen anyway so you don't see the widget styles?20:51
Venemowell, at least it works with my qml app.20:52
Venemomgedmin, also read
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mgedminlardman, desktopish, which is why I use it full-screen to avoid seeing uglyness20:53
mgedminupstream said they're going to release an official Harmattan build (end of August, IIRC), so I'm not wasting time trying to QMLize it myself20:53
lardmanah ok, I was going to pick your brain ;)20:55
mgedminfeel free to do so if you notice segfaults when swiping away from your app, I've some experience with that :)20:55
lardmannot seen that but will bear it in mind20:57
mgedminI don't expect that to be a common bug20:58
* lardman goes to eat supper, will be back to fix his issues afterwards20:58
mgedminfbreader was aggressively caching an active QPainter() backed by a QPixmap()20:58
mgedminthis turns out to be incompatible with harmattan's desire to switch between OpenGL-based graphics system and whatever 2D-only stuff it does with thumbnailed apps20:58
Venemowhat I was afraid of just came true!20:59
Venemoafter 3 weeks of lying in my drawer, I turned on the N90021:00
Venemoand I find my poor N900 to be quite obsolete when I compare it to the N950 :(21:00
VenemoI even got used to the C-TS, so I became uncomfortable with the N900's TS21:00
mgedminI had my n950 for what, two weeks?21:01
mgedminthen it broke and I had to use my n900 for a couple of days21:01
mgedminit wasn't all that bad, actually21:01
mgedminI missed being able to unlock by double-tap-and-swipe21:01
mgedminand I was never happy with the n900's touchscreen insensitivity21:01
mgedmin("stabscreen" is what I used to call it)21:01
Venemosince N900 was my first-ever TS device, I had no issues with it at all.21:02
Venemobut now... I feel sorry for it.21:02
Venemoalso the screen size of the N950 is almost as big as the N81021:02
Venemo4" compared to 4.3"21:02
Venemowhich I also liked more.21:02
Venemoat this point, shame on me, but I could just not go back seamlessly to the N900.21:05
Venemodespite being larger, the N950 also feels a lot less bulky and it also feels thinner and smaller.21:05
mgedminabout the only regression I can think of, hardware-wise, is the lack of a camera button21:06
Venemoand FMTX21:06
mgedminI don't think I managed to take a single non-shaken picture with it21:06
Venemoand lens cover21:06
mgedminoh, and a coloured LED was nice21:06
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fiferboyAnd kickstand21:17
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SpeedEvilI've already got a scratch on the lens cover21:18
SpeedEvilFortunately, not over the actual camera.21:18
Venemowell, I find it to be quite durable (compared to others I've seen), but not as durable as a dedicated lens cover21:19
hiemanshuI still have the plastic covering on, and no scratches, except a big ass dent on the back cover, stupid jeans, and thin cover material21:19
Venemoboth my N95 and my N900 have gathered some very big scratches on their lens covers, so I'm only hoping that fate will be nicer with N950's camera21:19
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VenemoI can't image how could I replace it if anything happened to it.21:20
RST38hvenemo: prolly not21:20
RST38hnn950 has got way less protected cameera glass21:20
Venemoin fact, if something goes wrong and I would even want to pay for fixing it, where would anyone get any parts for N950? :D21:21
lardmanLED is a good point21:28
lardmanIs annoying not getting any notifications21:28
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lardmanExec=invoker --single-instance --type=q /usr/bin/mbarcode-lite doesn't seem to do anything at all21:33
Venemolardman, do you export the main() function?21:33
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lardmaner, probably not21:34
lardmanshould I?21:34
lardmanand how for that matter?21:34
VenemoQ_DECL_EXPORT int main(int argc, char **argv)21:34
lardmanah ha, thanks21:34
Venemoif you don't export it, how the heck do you expect applauncherd to find it?21:34
lardmanno clue ;)21:34
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Venemojust please read that page.21:35
lardmanwill do21:35
* lardman has read and hopefully followed the instructions, time to see if it runs :)21:54
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lardmannice, works now, thanks Venemo21:56
Venemolardman, :)21:56
Venemolardman, you are welcome :)21:57
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Venemoeveryone applaud joppu for his efforts:
rcg2applause to joppu :)22:02
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Venemohi did a lot better job of putting that screenshot over an N9 than I did22:03
* lardman sees that he was missing a start on clause, doh!22:03
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GAN950IRC Chatter keeps dropping.22:13
lardmanGAN950: it's the summer holidays which can't help22:14
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VenemoGAN950, yeah, N950 drops the connection for me too...22:14
Venemonot the fault of the app AFAICT22:14
fiferboyGAN950: Are you on wifi?22:15
lardmanah, Chatter as a proper noun22:15
Venemomy N950 drops both wifi and 3G whenever it feels like...22:15
VenemoGAN950, we plan on adding a feature that will pop up a dialog for you when it disconnected, and will allow you to re-connect.22:16
GAN950fiferboy, both 3G and WiFi22:23
GAN950Why doesn't it just keep the damn connection alive22:24
VenemoI have no idea.22:24
GAN950there must be a way to tell it to.22:24
Venemobut it's in the N950 release notes that it may drop.22:24
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Venemowell sometimes it can keep the connection for half a day, and sometimes it drops after 15 minutes or a couple of hours... very random22:25
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lardmanhmm, no sign of my upstart task22:47
lardmanany ideas how to check whether it's supposed to have started yet?22:47
djszapi_well, is it in /etc/init/apps for starter ?22:48
lardmanof course22:48
djszapi_does it have a proper syntax, did you check that with the relevant tool ?22:48
lardmanI ran the tool and it didn't say anything so I assume that means it's ok22:48
djszapi_you used upstream exec, not aegis, right ?22:48
lardmanI tried exec and it didn't nothing so I've tried aegis22:49
lardmanand I now see that it's moaning about something in app-precheck.sh22:50
fiferboyAnyone care to comment on some data visualization?
lardmanso perhaps that's progress22:50
djszapi_do not use aegis-exec, no.22:50
djszapi_just use exec there.22:50
djszapi_also, make sure you waited at least a few minutes after the reboot.22:50
lardmanoh ok22:50
djszapi_then try to run it manually22:50
djszapi_whether it works manually...22:50
GAN950fiferboy, round the percentages.22:51
fiferboyI need to clarify my wording22:51
fiferboyGAN950: 4 decimal places or 8?22:51
GAN950whole numbers.22:52
lardmandjszapi_: my daemon is apparently not allowed to run as root22:53
djszapi_lardman: try as user ?22:54
lardmanyeah works fine as user, but how to get upstart to start it as user?22:54
djszapi_the first thing what you need to manage is to be able to run it locally.22:54
djszapi_do not go further on, if that very minimal first step does not work22:54
lardmanRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# /usr/bin/photoanalyser22:55
lardman-sh: /usr/bin/photoanalyser: Operation not permitted22:55
lardmanafaiu aegis could be used to start it as user22:56
djszapi_it is expected22:56
lardmanhow so?22:56
djszapi_that is the design22:57
djszapi_exec /usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l /usr/bin/photoanalyser22:57
djszapi_try this out please from your upstart job22:57
fiferboyGAN950: Fixed22:57
lardmandjszapi_: will do22:57
lardmandjszapi_: and does one require a start on clause, or are all conf files in /etc/init/apps/ started automatically?22:59
Venemohey fiferboy :)23:01
djszapi_lardman: sorry ?23:02
djszapi_I do not understand the first question, but the answer is "yes" for the second. They are automatically run if you check out the upstart event mechanism...after a few minutes.23:02
lardmandjszapi_: upstart tasks have start rules usually afaiu23:02
lardmanunless every task in that dir is automatically started23:03
djszapi_I do not understand the first question, but the answer is "yes" for the second. They are automatically run if you check out the upstart event mechanism...after a few minutes.23:03
djszapi_but then again, without working manually, I do not see any gain of waiting it work after a (re)boot.23:04
* lardman reboots and waits to see if it starts23:06
djszapi_I have just said it does not make sense, but ok up to you :)23:07
fiferboyHi Venemo23:07
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lardmandjszapi_: nice, seems to be working, many thanks23:12
lardmanone last question, I end up with two processes associated with this now, the sh and the actual binary, can I tack an & to the end of the aegis-exec command line to have the login session end?23:13
lardmanto answer my own question, yes it appears to be possible#23:16
djszapi_I fail to see why not23:17
djszapi_upstart parses it as a usual command.23:17
lardmansure, I was just wondering23:17
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djszapi_mikhas o/ :)23:19
djszapi_mikhas do you know the booster maintainer on Harmattan ?23:22
djszapi_sounds like a good thing, I would like to know more about it. Sounds like kdeinit to me.23:22
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mikhasno sorry, dont know the maintainer23:23
mikhasto me, booster tech is a source for a lot of crashes and bugs ;-)23:24
mikhaswell, it got better23:24
mikhas(mean rant: well written software shouldnt need a booster)23:24
mikhaskdeinit, that's because of the time it takes to load the libs?23:24
djszapi_it is not about software quality23:24
djszapi_it is about making the loading way faster23:24
mikhasyeah I know23:24
djszapi_well, actually prelink + booster is the nice combination23:25
mikhasbut we boosted badly written apps, hiding the real problem under the carpet23:25
mikhasstartup time of LMT apps was atrocious at some point ;-)23:25
mikhasif I got to see the booster stuff now, without the backstory, I would be on your side =p23:26
djszapi_first occasion I think thiago is not right about his opinion, but I am pretty sure I will fail with him23:26
djszapi_prelink is just simply harmless, even if it sometimes has no gain23:27
mikhasfor a controlled environment? yes makes sense23:27
mikhaswindows does this kind of boosting since win xp23:27
mikhasand no one ever complained23:27
djszapi_oh, I do not know the history, but if you are so enthusiast about histories, do not look at the koffice history please :)23:27
djszapi_when I first tried on n950 one year ago ... well ... well :)23:27
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mikhasone year ago? oh man, best time of my life! (not)23:28
djszapi_javispedro: same struggling issue in the shared repository as well:
Venemofiferboy, seen my IRC client? :)23:29
djszapi_mikhas: I think the calligra/koffice frontend is still worse than on N90023:29
djszapi_but that is just my personal opinion.23:29
fiferboyVenemo: I have, but I've not installed the released version yet23:29
fiferboyVenemo: I see you have an icon now :D23:29
javispedrodjszapi_: will look at it later, going to do something else now23:29
mikhashey btw - if you cannot get to install the OVI client, then do a manual apt-get update on the device23:30
Venemofiferboy, yeah, and splash, and everything, thanks to joppu & hiemanshu :)23:30
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fiferboyVenemo: Sweet. No more hardcoded username?23:33
* special wants to file a bug about the grammar of "That security code's wrong!"23:40
djszapi_mmh, it seems my pong and snake games work fine built upon gluon.23:40
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Venemofiferboy, indeed! there is a nice gui for it.23:52
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