| faenil | is anyone here who can check if what I found is a browser bug? | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| faenil | is there* | 00:02 |
| faenil | just need to visit a page | 00:02 |
| antman8969 | what page | 00:02 |
| Venemo | all right | 00:03 |
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| Venemo | MADDE is still buggy regarding dependencies | 00:03 |
| faenil | go to wordreference.com | 00:03 |
| faenil | and type the word "bug" in the search box :) | 00:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | I was only able to build it when I took libircclient-qt-dev off the deps | 00:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | but it otherwise works | 00:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | I'm gonna install the scratchbox sdk and build with that | 00:05 |
| faenil | antman8969 keep me posted | 00:05 |
| antman8969 | going right now faenil | 00:06 |
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| faenil | ok | 00:06 |
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| antman8969 | seems to work. I did english to spanish. But I think I know what you're talking about. Whenever I get random browser bugs I just clear the cache and cookies... seems to fix it | 00:07 |
| antman8969 | for me it happens most on linkedin | 00:07 |
| faenil | did you wait for the result page to load? | 00:08 |
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| antman8969 | yea, I saw the definition of bug and a bunch of other stuff.... I'll try again to make sure | 00:08 |
| faenil | and I'll try deleting cache | 00:09 |
| antman8969 | uhoh | 00:09 |
| antman8969 | lol now it bugged | 00:09 |
| faenil | good :) | 00:09 |
| faenil | I'm reporting it :) | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Can anyone point me at the thread on the authentication-account problem? | 00:10 |
| antman8969 | theres tons of stuff like that on the stock browser. I've been using firefox | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I can't seem to find it | 00:10 |
| faenil | second report today, let's track them out :D | 00:10 |
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| Venemo | hmmm | 00:29 |
| Venemo | this time I installed just the harmattan scratchbox SDK (without the fremantle one) | 00:29 |
| Venemo | and there is no /scratchbox/login | 00:30 |
| Venemo | WTF? | 00:30 |
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| antman8969 | venemo, happened to me once and I had to logout and log back in for it to appear | 00:45 |
| Venemo | antman8969, yeah... well, I just rebooted :P | 00:47 |
| Venemo | okay! | 00:48 |
| Venemo | a package is ready :) | 00:48 |
| Venemo | ZrZ, are you RzR? | 00:48 |
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| ZrZ | Venemo: sort of, ZrZ is to rzr what mr hyde is to doctor jeckyl | 00:51 |
| faenil | anyway firefox is slower than default... | 00:51 |
| Venemo | ZrZ, all right :) | 00:54 |
| Venemo | ZrZ, I've added debian packaging to my IRC client | 00:54 |
| Venemo | ZrZ, do you wish to add it to your repo? | 00:54 |
| ZrZ | sure let's do that | 00:56 |
| ZrZ | enough waited | 00:56 |
| Venemo | ZrZ, see /topic in #irc-chatter for URL | 00:57 |
| Venemo | ZrZ, simple dpkg-buildpackage in scratchbox works | 00:57 |
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| Venemo | LOL @ http://www.nokia.com/n950 | 01:12 |
| ieatlint | 404 ? | 01:12 |
| Venemo | yepp | 01:12 |
| macmaN | why, was there supposed to be something there | 01:14 |
| Venemo | nope. | 01:14 |
| macmaN | so where's the lol | 01:15 |
| Venemo | well, it's still their device. they could have added a simple page with one sentence and a picture. | 01:15 |
| macmaN | ok | 01:16 |
| kimju | is there such links for all other devices? | 01:16 |
| Venemo | yep | 01:16 |
| Venemo | I think | 01:16 |
| Venemo | http://www.nokia.com/n9 http://www.nokia.com/n97 http://www.nokia.com/n900 http://www.nokia.com/n95 | 01:16 |
| Venemo | mhm, yes | 01:17 |
| ieatlint | yeah, but that's a portal for consumers to their devices | 01:18 |
| ieatlint | the n950 isn't a device they are marketing/selling | 01:19 |
| ieatlint | and advertising it would simply confuse consumers | 01:19 |
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| Venemo | SpeedEvil, antman8969, lcuk, RST38h, alterego, MohammadAG, w00t_, GOOD NEWS: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Venemo/IRC_Chatter#Releases -> there is a link to a downloadable .deb :) | 01:20 |
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| Venemo_N950 | hey TSCHAKeee | 01:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | hey :) | 01:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | saw the link to the release, downloaded :) thanks :) | 01:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | dunno if you saw | 01:55 |
| Venemo_N950 | TSCHAKeee, saw what? | 01:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | one sec | 01:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | Venemo_N950: http://hphotos-ash4.fbcdn.net/286981_10150246759382115_716957114_7698714_5066998_o.jpg | 01:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | Venemo_N950: http://hphotos-ash4.fbcdn.net/291506_10150246759427115_716957114_7698715_3482910_o.jpg | 01:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | Venemo_N950: and.. http://hphotos-snc7.fbcdn.net/290763_10150246760257115_716957114_7698729_2671670_o.jpg | 01:56 |
| Venemo_N950 | nice, but what is this? | 01:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | well, we're writing a new Orbiter for LinuxMCE, that uses QML... i'm doing specific QML for Harmattan.... | 01:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | Venemo_N950: LinuxMCE being a massive smart home platform that unifies lighting, media, climate, security, and telecom all under one system | 01:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Venemo_N950: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829 <-- demo video from 2007, using the old UI... there isn't anything else out there that encompasses our scope... | 01:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | the UI you see there is Orbiter, and we're writing a new replacement using Qt/QML. | 01:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | anyway. | 01:58 |
| Venemo_N950 | and what does Orbiter do? | 01:59 |
| Venemo_N950 | the GUI indeed looks nice | 01:59 |
| * javispedro wishes it was a Space Shuttle Simulator =) | 01:59 | |
| TSCHAKeee | Venemo_N950: well, simplest explanation, Orbiter is a remote control, but it's a lot more intelligent than that. | 01:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | it is the house wide UI used in LinuxMCE | 01:59 |
| Venemo_N950 | javispedro, are you still interested in an IRC client for the N950? | 01:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | running across multiple devices (TVs, cell phones, tablets, PDAs, etc..), all in sync with each other. | 02:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | TSCHAKeee, mhmm, sounds nice :) | 02:00 |
| javispedro | Venemo_N950: until I end hardcore testing on my N950 it is rather unstable, so no apps for me for now =) | 02:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | javispedro, what kind of hardcore testing? | 02:00 |
| javispedro | I've removed the compositor | 02:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | oh | 02:01 |
| javispedro | want to learn =) | 02:01 |
| Venemo_N950 | and what will that accomplish? | 02:01 |
| javispedro | just researching for the time being, still playing with vsync and all the video driver bugs | 02:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | mhm | 02:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | nice | 02:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | if you happen to change your mind, see http://wiki.meego.com/User:Venemo/IRC_Chatter#Releases :) | 02:02 |
| javispedro | Venemo_N950: thanks and good work! | 02:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | javispedro :) | 02:03 |
| antman8969 | venemo venemo_n950, looking very good | 02:03 |
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| Venemo_N950 | thanks antman8969 :) | 02:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | antman8969, try it for yourself | 02:04 |
| antman8969 | i'm trying to get on #harmattan as antman_n950 right now | 02:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | :) | 02:05 |
| antman8969 | its a shame people will have to use the vkb tho | 02:05 |
| antman8969 | half the screen gone | 02:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | it plays nicely with the vkb, it's especially usable in portrait mode. | 02:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | ~seen fiferboy | 02:06 |
| infobot | fiferboy <~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 2d 2h 17m 22s ago, saying: 'Venemo: Are you running the stock version on the N950?'. | 02:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | meh | 02:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | GeneralAntilles, if you are still interested, please see http://wiki.meego.com/User:Venemo/IRC_Chatter#Releases | 02:08 |
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| n950evil | hawt | 02:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | n950evil :) | 02:28 |
| TSCHAKeee | is there a list of platformIconIds???? | 02:31 |
| antman8969 | kind of | 02:32 |
| antman8969 | you can see them on your phone | 02:32 |
| antman8969 | i think its | 02:32 |
| antman8969 | /usr/share/icons/blanco/... | 02:32 |
| antman8969 | I'll cehck | 02:32 |
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| antman8969 | /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons | 02:33 |
| antman8969 | the ones that start with icon-m are the toolbar ones | 02:33 |
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| TSCHAKeee | awesome thanks | 02:38 |
| * SpeedEvil keeps wanting to tap the top-bar to open an app-list | 02:44 | |
| antman8969 | at least to see battery percent... | 02:45 |
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| antman8969 | so I've honestly got no idea what an ident is for irc... | 02:51 |
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| antman8969 | ident == nickserv? | 02:55 |
| antman8969 | that seems to have worked | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | antman: completely, complretly bogus solution. | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | bme-datalogger --battery-percent|awk '{print $NF}' on a shell | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | and then blow the font size up to 150 point | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | and you can see it in the app switcher | 02:55 |
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| TSCHAKeee | damn, I am having a brain fart | 05:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | I need to right align an icon, where do I anchor? | 05:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | inside the rectangle, close to the right edge | 05:22 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: right side to right side of rectangle? | 05:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah.. something like | 05:24 |
| hiemanshu | anchor.right = parent.right | 05:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | [ Some Text ^ ] | 05:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | where i am trying to position the carat | 05:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | oh shit i should be looking at TumblerButton | 05:25 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: anchor it and use an anchor margin? | 05:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | yup | 05:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | that does it | 05:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | i'm basically making a header that can pop up a context menu | 05:26 |
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| TSCHAKeee | I found the up/down icon thingy | 05:26 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 05:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | and am just trying to fudge stuff that's in MTF | 05:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 05:26 |
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| hiemanshu | hah ok | 05:29 |
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| n950evil | This is a test of the vkbd | 05:45 |
| n950evil | hmm | 05:45 |
| hiemanshu | n950evil: hah, like it? | 05:45 |
| n950evil | definately easier in landsx | 05:46 |
| n950evil | scape | 05:46 |
| hiemanshu | well if you find a bug or want something added, patches are welcome :) | 05:46 |
| n950evil | I think I would l | 05:47 |
| * hiemanshu is trying to implement /exec | 05:47 | |
| n950evil | prefer vkbd edges a bit further from horizontal edges. | 05:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | can MenuLayouts get their items from data models ? | 05:48 |
| n950evil | Though not your fault. | 05:48 |
| n950evil | no clue, sorry | 05:48 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: yes, look at https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter and how we have models | 05:49 |
| n950evil | I added some.bits to the wiki features page, nothing novel though. | 05:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | actually i did look at that | 05:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | hiemanshu: basically, I have a context menu, and rather than statically defining menuitems, i'm wanting to grab them from a model... | 05:50 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: you need to set Q_PROPERTY for stuff that you want to be able to access, Q_INVOKABLE for functions that QML can access, and then register them with qml using qmlRegisterType | 05:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* yeah, I'm using the bits from ListViews | 05:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | already have my stuff exposed from C++ into the QML | 05:52 |
| * TSCHAKeee makes a pic | 05:53 | |
| hiemanshu | I have to run for a bit, I'll be back in 10 | 05:53 |
| MohammadAG | shouldn't a Flickable extend when the children resize? | 05:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | hiemanshu: http://hphotos-ash4.fbcdn.net/287919_10150247562377115_716957114_7708124_5934020_o.jpg | 05:56 |
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| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: yes | 06:02 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: hmm, whats wrong with it? | 06:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | those are static | 06:03 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, it's not for me | 06:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | hiemanshu: i need to get those menu items from a model | 06:03 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: make a repeater and get the data from the model | 06:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | ahhhhhhhhhhhhh | 06:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | *click* | 06:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | :) | 06:05 |
| hiemanshu | TSCHAKeee: look at the ChatPage https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/ChatPage.qml#line117 | 06:06 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: it does for me | 06:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | completely understood, thanks hiemanshu | 06:07 |
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| Venemo_N950 | good morning Harmattan! | 10:24 |
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| rcg | morning Venemo_N950 | 10:38 |
| rcg | btw this is the tree view i am currently implementing -> http://ruedigergad.com/2011/08/14/qml-treeview/ | 10:38 |
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| rcg | the link shows already a working version.. in the meantime i added a little bit more properties to ease the usage and handling of selections | 10:39 |
| Venemo_N950 | hey rcg | 10:42 |
| Venemo_N950 | rcg, check out http://bit.ly/getircchatter | 10:43 |
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| rcg | bookmarked :) am currently about to go to work.. will try this once i get back | 10:50 |
| Venemo | rcg :) | 10:53 |
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| rcg | brb.. the way to work is quite short ;) | 11:05 |
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| Venemo | so, here is the news: http://twitter.com/#!/Venemo/status/103008339067273216 (and I've made a bunch of shortened URLs on lcuk's suggestion) | 11:09 |
| djszapi | "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!" | 11:14 |
| Venemo | djszapi, probably the fault of Cassandra or whatever NoSQL db they use. it appears to me :P | 11:15 |
| Venemo | djszapi, see http://bit.ly/getircchatter or /topic in #irc-chatter | 11:16 |
| djszapi | right | 11:19 |
| Venemo | djszapi, try it :) we have a known issues section on http://bit.ly/ircchatter and if you wish for a new feature, add it to http://bit.ly/ircchatterwishlist :) | 11:23 |
| Venemo | ~seen fiferboy | 11:24 |
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| rcg | work work.. | 11:24 |
| Venemo_N950 | rcg :) | 11:24 |
| djszapi | Venemo: I am all sort of busy with catching up the work thingy after the desktop summit :) slightly different mood :p | 11:24 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, sure, no hurry :P | 11:25 |
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| djszapi | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1066794&postcount=9 -> Actually, it is a feature imho. | 11:47 |
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| djszapi | without open mode, /var/lib/aegis/restok.conf is securely signed | 11:49 |
| djszapi | You cannot load a module in sales devices and the sysfs is protected properly by tcb. | 11:51 |
| ZrZ | kimju: https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor/old | 11:59 |
| kimju | ZrZ, I know.. obs doesn't like that package. luckily it releases the builder for others to use, it just reports it as still building. | 12:01 |
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| djszapi | kimju: c-obs does not like so many packages ;p | 12:02 |
| mariob | anyone trying to use --splash with the invoker? My image get rotated and scaled to landscape mode but it should be portrait | 12:02 |
| kimju | I'll try a workaround (use aegis-deb-add directly, not via aegis-deb-util) when I have some time. | 12:03 |
| kimju | someone reported that change fixed few other packages adding their own aegis manifests. | 12:05 |
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| Arkenoi | Venemo, is character encoding configurable? | 12:20 |
| djszapi | Venemo: I will play with telepathy-idle and IRC a bit when I get the time. | 12:21 |
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| Venemo_N950 | Arkenoi, afaik it's unicode | 12:22 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, mhm | 12:22 |
| Venemo_N950 | I still don't get what's so good about telepathy-idle | 12:22 |
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| djszapi | telepathy is not a playground like libircclient | 12:23 |
| djszapi | and telepathy is already used for couple of things on this gadget... | 12:23 |
| ZrZ | kimju: did u test it ? | 12:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, you can use my gui with it if you wish | 12:24 |
| ZrZ | i mean the snapshot version of terminal ? | 12:24 |
| kimju | ZrZ, no, haven't had time. | 12:24 |
| kimju | ZrZ, ? | 12:24 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I ttried to check telepathy-idle, but google didn't find it | 12:24 |
| ZrZ | ok i'll try to build it if i have time | 12:24 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950 which google ? ;) | 12:25 |
| ZrZ | now i am testing Venemo irc-chatter | 12:25 |
| kimju | ZrZ, well, I've been using that version build locally on scratchbox. | 12:25 |
| djszapi | full of results to me: http://tinyurl.com/3vwhcnn | 12:25 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, it found an obsolete project page | 12:25 |
| djszapi | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-idle/ -> quite up-to-date actually. | 12:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | redirected to telepathy's webpage which didn't have link for it | 12:26 |
| kimju | ZrZ, but didn't have time to try the aegis change yet. | 12:26 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: you are saying you could not find telepathy-idle by google ? :) | 12:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | indeed | 12:27 |
| Arkenoi | Venemo, there are many non-unicode channels on irc :-( | 12:27 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: sorry, but it was 2 secs for me. | 12:28 |
| djszapi | I just typed telepathy-idle into google, and second and third link is the telepathy page :) | 12:28 |
| w00t_ | it's probably more helpful to read up on telepathy in general, idle is just a connection manager (something which connects and talks protocol, afaik) for irc | 12:28 |
| djszapi | yep | 12:28 |
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| mece | Venemo o/ | 12:32 |
| ZrZ | humm | 12:32 |
| ZrZ | it doesnt want to restart | 12:33 |
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| Arkenoi | is there a way to get debug log for wifi authentication on harmattan? i cannot figure out what's wrong with it and error message is as meaningful as typical nokia error messaging "something is wrong" | 12:39 |
| Arkenoi | typical error message even | 12:40 |
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| mece | \o | 12:42 |
| xarcass | Arkenoi: you may have a look into /var/log/syslog | 12:42 |
| Arkenoi | failed to run MLME command, ret=-22 | 12:49 |
| Arkenoi | wonder what does it mean | 12:49 |
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| Arkenoi | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22530 seems that it is that one | 12:52 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 22530 maj, Undecided, ---, carsten, VERI INVALID, Cannot connect to WLAN | 12:52 |
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| Stskeeps | if harmattan, unlikely to be on meego.com | 12:53 |
| djszapi | Stskeeps: except c-obs bugs. | 12:53 |
| Arkenoi | Stskeeps, cannot find this bug in a more proper place :-( | 12:55 |
| Venemo_N950 | so djszapi, if I had chosen telepathy idle, not only would I have to learn QML, but the workings of telepathy as well | 13:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | I don't see the advantage | 13:03 |
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| djszapi | Venemo_N950: *sigh* | 13:05 |
| djszapi | nvm, I will play with it... | 13:05 |
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| radiofree_ | irc chatter, very nice! | 13:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | radiofree, thx :) | 13:06 |
| radiofree | Venemo_N950: it's really rather nice, great mobile irc client that works in portrait mode | 13:07 |
| radiofree_ | i concur! | 13:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | :) | 13:11 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: actually telepathy is used for almost everything on this device regarding the connections. I highly recommend the output of dpkg -l \*telepathy\*. It might even be the story it could be somewhat embedded better into the system with telepathy-idle. As said, telepathy is sponsored by Nokia and Collabora. libircclient is just a toy. I do not see it a good way of doing things, but I have been saying it to you from the beginning... | 13:14 |
| djszapi | and regarding this, it is (for me) not an option to learn something if it can be better. | 13:16 |
| djszapi | * to not learn | 13:16 |
| tomma | moved cuteexplorer to developer.nokia projects https://projects.developer.nokia.com/cuteexplorer/files , if someone is interested trying it | 13:19 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I know what telepathy is | 13:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, and I know that the builtin messages app uses it | 13:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, but I don't understand what my app could benefit from it | 13:24 |
| djszapi | let me not repeat myself gazillion times. | 13:24 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, you have repeated yourslef, but didn't answer the simple question | 13:25 |
| Venemo_N950 | what would my app benefit from telepathy-idle? | 13:25 |
| Venemo_N950 | last time I checked, telepathy-idle couldn't join channels | 13:25 |
| radiofree | tomma: looks good, but I think i'd prefer to be able to double tap to open folders | 13:25 |
| w00t_ | um.. it can, Venemo_N950 | 13:25 |
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| w00t_ | and has been able to for a very long time, afaik | 13:26 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: Accounts use telepathy for almost everything | 13:26 |
| djszapi | same with xmpp, gtalk, skype, sip everything | 13:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | well it can't on N900 | 13:26 |
| w00t_ | the UI may not be able to | 13:26 |
| djszapi | also, it is sponsored by two big companies, not a leisure time stuff | 13:26 |
| w00t_ | but the backend (telepathy-idle) can | 13:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, yes, I KNOW. | 13:26 |
| djszapi | what is your point if you know this ? | 13:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | no need to repeat yourself :) | 13:27 |
| djszapi | Isn't it nice to have a sponsored project instead of a toy ? | 13:27 |
| w00t_ | from what I know of the problem, it's the same as on harmattan is the same: the UI cannot handle group chat very well/at all | 13:27 |
| djszapi | isn't it nice to embed it into account if it is possible, or at least try ? | 13:27 |
| djszapi | or try to integrate it better with harmattan as much as possible ? :) | 13:27 |
| djszapi | consistency is also nice with the rest. | 13:27 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, harmattan's message GUI isn't well equipped for irc | 13:27 |
| radiofree | tomma: selecting is nice, but it might be better if it had a separate scroll area | 13:28 |
| djszapi | Venemo: for personal queries ? | 13:28 |
| djszapi | I find it completely fine. | 13:28 |
| djszapi | also, the integrated account management would also be a nice thing. | 13:28 |
| djszapi | channels are a bit different matter, but still better integrated idea than the current | 13:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | for personal queries, nice, yes | 13:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | but not for channles | 13:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | so at the end I would have needed to make a GUI anyway | 13:29 |
| djszapi | for the channels, not for everything | 13:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | channels use the same gui as queries in my client, so I didn't do any extra work. :) | 13:30 |
| djszapi | sorry, but "extra work" is a work arguement compared to the user experience for me. | 13:30 |
| djszapi | * weak | 13:30 |
| Venemo_N950 | hm? | 13:30 |
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| djszapi | I like things are integrated, and I would try to make it happen that way further on. | 13:31 |
| Venemo_N950 | if you think the user experience of my app is bad, you can suggest solutions. | 13:31 |
| Venemo_N950 | swapping backend is no solution to a gui issue | 13:31 |
| djszapi | and as I said, I feel more confident with a sponsored project than with a toy from a guy who can be crashed by a car anytime. | 13:31 |
| djszapi | your idea does not work with integrating imho. | 13:31 |
| djszapi | so it has no "solution". | 13:31 |
| Venemo_N950 | what do you wish to integrate? | 13:32 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: The decision between Telepathy and non-Telepathy is not realy a GUI issue. Or much more than a GUI issue. | 13:32 |
| djszapi | I agree with rishi about it | 13:32 |
| djszapi | it is not just gui issue, much more. | 13:32 |
| tomma | radiofree, yeah that would be nice... also i think i will implement possibility to open files by double tappig. those wont be so hard to implement | 13:32 |
| rishi | Ofcourse I am biased because I hack on Telepathy Idle. | 13:32 |
| Venemo_N950 | I just wanted a nice irc gui, and made it. what is the issue? | 13:32 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: it would be nice if the query works like messaging | 13:32 |
| djszapi | not a complete new Ui. | 13:33 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: Your UI might be fine, but this is not just about the UI. If you are wondering why I am saying so, I can explain. | 13:33 |
| djszapi | rishi: please do, I am interested in telepathy-idle :p | 13:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | please do, rishi | 13:34 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: With Telepathy, IM is sort of a desktop service. There is a daemon that does the actual network communication, and all UIs are clients of it. | 13:35 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: eg., in GNOME 3, GNOME Shell and Empathy are both clients. | 13:35 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: So if you log into your IM accounts using Empathy, and then close it, it is possible for you to still stay logged in. | 13:36 |
| rishi | If someone sends a message, GNOME Shell can give a minimalistic UI for you to reply. | 13:36 |
| rishi | Or if you want to get a full featured client, you can again launch Empathy to continue the conversation. | 13:37 |
| Venemo_N950 | I know, I use gnome-shell | 13:37 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: Similarly it is possible to imagine that you can write click on a link on your browser and say "send it to contact XXXX". | 13:37 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: Something that we often do on IRC. | 13:38 |
| rishi | ie. copy-pasting links to pastebins, documentation, etc.. | 13:38 |
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| * djszapi is making notes | 13:39 | |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: And ofcourse, having another IRC backend with its own set of bugs and quirks is sort of pointless. | 13:39 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: So unless you have a really really strong case against Telepathy, I would suggest you go for it. | 13:39 |
| RST38h | Moo,all | 13:39 |
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| rishi | Venemo_N950: People will love you. :-) | 13:39 |
| djszapi | rishi: telepathy-idle supports sasl, right ? | 13:40 |
| Venemo_N950 | okay, so there is no gnome-shell on N950... what's the point of reasoning with gnome-shell features | 13:40 |
| djszapi | bah, that is just an example of those... :) | 13:40 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: I am sure Nokia phones have some sort of shell that is not /bin/bash. ;-) | 13:40 |
| djszapi | we do have. | 13:40 |
| Venemo_N950 | rishi, yes, but it has none of the features you listed above. | 13:41 |
| djszapi | so all what we need actually is an account plugin. | 13:41 |
| Venemo_N950 | no, because you do not have a decent gui. | 13:42 |
| djszapi | but I was always lucky with telepathy, it was easy to use their interface, at least for me. | 13:42 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: I gave the example of GNOME 3 because that is what I use, you can easily map them onto Meego or Maemo or whatever. | 13:42 |
| djszapi | of course you need the Ui, but that is something we discussed above. | 13:42 |
| Venemo_N950 | an account plugin would not give me the oportunity that a dedicated irc client does. | 13:42 |
| rishi | djszapi: The Telepathy interface is not really meant for users. | 13:42 |
| rishi | djszapi: It is meant for programmers who will write clients. | 13:43 |
| djszapi | rishi: I was speaking about the API usage, indeed. | 13:43 |
| djszapi | aka. programming interface. | 13:43 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: Your IRC client will take the stuff from the account plugin to log in. (Assuming I correctly understood what the account plugin is) | 13:43 |
| rishi | djszapi: Right. :-) | 13:43 |
| djszapi | rishi: it supports sasl, does not it ? | 13:44 |
| rishi | djszapi: You can try. I don't know much about SASL. | 13:44 |
| djszapi | rishi: you misunderstood the account plugin | 13:44 |
| rishi | File bugs if it doesn't. Then I will look at it. :-) | 13:44 |
| djszapi | no, the login is handled by mission control via sasl | 13:45 |
| djszapi | you just ask the account to go online and it does the magic | 13:45 |
| rishi | djszapi: I thought the account plugin is just the UI to input a new IRC account. | 13:45 |
| rishi | eg., Empathy offers one. | 13:45 |
| djszapi | sasl is needed for this. | 13:46 |
| rishi | djszapi: Then it probably works. | 13:46 |
| djszapi | the account plugin will create an account in the accounts fw, and associate it to a telepathy accounts plugin | 13:46 |
| djszapi | and also store the password for the signon framework in the secure storage | 13:46 |
| rishi | djszapi: All I know is that works in GNOME. Not sure if MeeGo has something different going on. | 13:47 |
| djszapi | rishi: I am all for a telepathy-idle based irc client :) | 13:47 |
| rishi | djszapi: I had the skeleton for a XChat-like client, but don't have enough time to do it alone. | 13:47 |
| rishi | djszapi: That was for GNOME, not MeeGo. | 13:48 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: In any case, it is your project. It is not up to me to dictate what you will do. So its completely upto you. :-) | 13:49 |
| djszapi | rishi: I might poke you about it later, if you do not mind. :p | 13:49 |
| rishi | djszapi: Sure. Find me on #telepathy. | 13:49 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, if you want to implement a backend based on telepathy, please do. | 13:50 |
| djszapi | rishi: we had a pleasant time with collabora/telepathy guys at the desktop summit, btw :) | 13:50 |
| Venemo_N950 | file a merge request, and I will merge in your stuff. | 13:50 |
| rishi | djszapi: Ah, you were there. :-) | 13:50 |
| rishi | djszapi: So was I. | 13:50 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: I will start a new project, no worry :) | 13:50 |
| djszapi | rishi: with Francesco, Dario and others ? | 13:51 |
| djszapi | rishi: I was hanging at the hostel with the qt/kde telepathy guys mostly. | 13:52 |
| rishi | djszapi: Ok. :-) | 13:52 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, feel free to use my gui. | 13:52 |
| rishi | Venemo_N950: If you need help with the Telepathy Dbus API or something, I can try to help. | 13:53 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: not sure about the latest state, but I did not like the idea when you tried to zoom the screen by using char sizes. | 13:53 |
| rishi | But I don't think having multiple backends for the same IRC client makes sense. | 13:53 |
| djszapi | I would just use pincharea, that is | 13:53 |
| djszapi | rishi: *Nods* -> Do one thing, but do it well linux philisophy here :) | 13:53 |
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| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, my app has no zooming at all, not sure what you are talking about | 13:54 |
| djszapi | then it is no go for me | 13:54 |
| Venemo_N950 | well then please tell me what kind of zooming you need | 13:55 |
| djszapi | I told you more times, but you were against the idea. That is why I thought it is better if I do not ask it more and do on my own :) | 13:55 |
| Venemo_N950 | I've been asking you to tell me this idea for a while, but you didn't have the time | 13:55 |
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| Venemo_N950 | I am definitely not against it :) | 13:56 |
| djszapi | yes, you were. | 13:56 |
| Venemo_N950 | so, what do you have in mind? | 13:56 |
| djszapi | you told me that: "it is not a use case, you just allow to set the char size", that is | 13:56 |
| djszapi | for me it is a use case, mostly on N9 | 13:56 |
| Venemo_N950 | so you wish to pich-to-zoom into the text area? | 13:57 |
| lardman | anyone know the magic needed to turn a Qt slot into a DBus method? | 13:57 |
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| djszapi | Venemo_N950: I told you telepathy-idle and this zooming from the beginning, none of them is available. It is easier if I do it myself :p | 13:59 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, you still haven't told me how you imagine the zoom feature. would a pincharea do what you wish to do? | 14:00 |
| Arkenoi | can anyone recommend a simple accounts plugin template source to get the idea what API looks like? | 14:00 |
| djszapi | rishi: I wanted to port konvi, but the codebase did not want it :p Ui and functionality code are not separeated, unfortunately. | 14:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, if I put a PinchArea over the TextArea, will that suit you or you have something else in mind? | 14:03 |
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| mece | hello | 14:27 |
| Venemo | hi | 14:29 |
| mece | wtf is wrong with my qtsdk now? I'm getting rcc/qrc_res.cpp Error 1 File not found | 14:30 |
| mece | ah nvrmind got it | 14:30 |
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| mikhas | mece, you should not be using resource files | 14:46 |
| mikhas | consider installing your data and qml files properly | 14:46 |
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| spenap | mikhas, can you elaborate on that? why you consider resources being improper? | 14:46 |
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| mikhas | first, it blows up the size of your binary | 14:48 |
| Venemo | who cares? | 14:49 |
| Venemo | it works, period | 14:49 |
| mikhas | second, you cannot just update the data files separately | 14:49 |
| spenap | when would you update the data files separately? and as for the size of the binary, it of course depends on the resources' size | 14:53 |
| mece | mikhas, why? | 14:53 |
| mece | mikhas, righty. Well not using causes issues with paths and stuff. | 14:54 |
| mikhas | for qml developement? all the time | 14:55 |
| Venemo | it just works with qrc, so why would I bother changing it? | 14:55 |
| mece | mikhas, I agree that it's pretty sweet to have the qml stuff open, and I do that occasionally, but for distribution on multiple platforms qrc files is much much much simpler. Much. | 14:56 |
| mikhas | yeah, that seems true as well | 14:59 |
| mece | anyway I just started a new project in qtsdk and ran into that problem (fixed it already, was a typo in the qrc file) | 15:00 |
| mece | hey | 15:00 |
| ZrZ | http://rzr.online.fr/q/irc# testing #irc on #harmattan #n950 using irc-chatter thanks to Venemo enjoy #video next step #xmpp now (#n950club) | 15:00 |
| mece | I'd like to be able to scp stuff into my N950 but for some reason I get Permission denied. I can scp from device (like pull), but not from home computer to device (like push) | 15:02 |
| * mece knows nada about ssh stuff | 15:02 | |
| kimju | Sage, I can't find the bug about partition alignment now. but the problem is that the SD cards have internal erase block / allocation unit sizes of 32k, 64k, .. even up to 4MB (or 8MB). if the partitions are aligned to start from these boundaries, most writes will only affect only one internal block. this happens nowadays even with new HDDs with 4k block size. with the legacy of starting the first partition at offset of 512 bytes and 4k writes you get the wo | 15:04 |
| kimju | eh, wrong channel. | 15:04 |
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| Tronic | I am using QtSDK with Harmattan target but for some reason Pulseaudio symbols are not found. | 15:10 |
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| Tronic | Oh, wait a sec. Now I am getting linker errors instead. | 15:11 |
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| Tronic | (was missing some includes apparently) | 15:12 |
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| ajalkane | whats the command you're using? | 15:14 |
| Kypeli | There's a bug in splashscreen: it shows initially in landscape even if no --splash-landscape is specified. Is this fixed in N9 or am I really doing something wrong? | 15:15 |
| xarcass | Kypeli: just rotate your splash image - it works | 15:16 |
| Kypeli | The .png picture is in portrait. | 15:16 |
| xarcass | Kypeli: btw, when screenshots are taken, they are also rotated. | 15:17 |
| Kypeli | I only want a splash in portrait since that is what my app is in | 15:17 |
| xarcass | Kypeli: I have both splash screens in my app, and I've just rotated portrait-oriented one. Now it works perfectly | 15:17 |
| Arkenoi | oh sh*t. my phonebook is full of duplicate entries again. will i ever see google sync that does not do it? | 15:17 |
| Kypeli | xarcass: Oh right. I'll work around this then | 15:18 |
| trx | nice, i created a basic qml file and set both tool bar and status bar to be invisible... what i got is TWO status bars a one tool bar... One status bar rotates as the phone rotates and the other is fixed.. | 15:18 |
| trx | anyone had this problem? | 15:18 |
| trx | and one* | 15:19 |
| xarcass | trx: showFullScreen() usually does the trick | 15:22 |
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| trx | xarcass yeah i just tried that and now i get no tool bar and only one status bar | 15:24 |
| trx | how do i get rid of that status bar? | 15:24 |
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| xarcass | trx: which one? top or bottom? | 15:24 |
| trx | top one | 15:24 |
| mece | statusBar: false | 15:25 |
| trx | thanks | 15:25 |
| xarcass | in PageStackWindow | 15:25 |
| mece | aye | 15:25 |
| xarcass | only it's showStatusBar property | 15:25 |
| trx | thanks | 15:26 |
| Tronic | Hmm, now, how does one link pulseaudio with QtSDK & friends? | 15:29 |
| Tronic | I've been using CMake before, no idea about qmake. | 15:29 |
| Venemo | Tronic, | 15:29 |
| Venemo | CONFIG += link_pkgconfig | 15:29 |
| Venemo | PKGCONFIG += your_pkgconfig_name | 15:29 |
| mece | xarcass, righty. | 15:29 |
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| djszapi | lbt: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=grantlee&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard -> virtual memory exhausted: Cannot allocate memory | 15:30 |
| mece | srsly how the hell am I supposed to run a harmattan app on my pc? failing miserably. | 15:34 |
| djszapi | qemu ? | 15:34 |
| mece | doesn't seem to work | 15:35 |
| mece | I always get timeout | 15:35 |
| Venemo | mece, try scratchbox | 15:35 |
| Venemo | or run on device | 15:35 |
| mece | Venemo, well as I mentioned earlier, I can't scp stuff into the phone unless I pull it, and I can't do that on this this piece of crap windows machine. | 15:36 |
| ajalkane | first run results in timeout, but qemu is started. Second run deploys into qemu | 15:36 |
| mece | and I tried to connect the phone with usb but couldn't get the networking thing to work on the computer | 15:36 |
| Venemo | mece, does Qt Creator & SDK connection utility not work? | 15:36 |
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| mece | Venemo, it says I'm supposed to click automagically install networking blah blah, but that doesn't work | 15:37 |
| ajalkane | oh windows... | 15:37 |
| ajalkane | nvm | 15:37 |
| mikhas | mece, install unbuntu in virtualbox? | 15:38 |
| mece | yeah.. I've got scratchbox working just fine in linux | 15:38 |
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| Venemo | mece, plug your phone in and click SDK mode, then wait for a few minutes, then you can add it to Qt Creator's Linux devices section in Tools/options. | 15:38 |
| mikhas | then run sdk from there? | 15:38 |
| mece | mikhas, I guess I could but I dont' wanna. | 15:38 |
| mikhas | mece, well but if you have sbox, then why do you worry? | 15:38 |
| mece | well that's not here. | 15:38 |
| mikhas | you can just run stuff inside sbox, no? | 15:39 |
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| djszapi | RzR950 kdelibs vanished from the shared repository, do you have any idea why ? | 15:40 |
| mece | venemo, ok... making some progress... | 15:40 |
| mece | bah failed. | 15:41 |
| Venemo | mece, you need the SDK connectivity utility on your N950 the first time you configure it | 15:41 |
| mece | i have that. | 15:41 |
| mece | but windows didn't manage to install the "new device" | 15:41 |
| Venemo | weird | 15:42 |
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| Venemo | well, it works on my windows, when I happen to boot to that instead of my Fedora | 15:42 |
| mece | I have xp | 15:42 |
| Tronic | Venemo: Thanks :) | 15:42 |
| mece | Windows can't find drivers for "N950 RNDIS/Ethernet" device | 15:43 |
| mece | apparently | 15:43 |
| mece | ah | 15:43 |
| mece | now I know the problem | 15:43 |
| mece | there was an error when trying to install madde usb driver | 15:44 |
| mece | I'll try to reinstall that. | 15:44 |
| mece | hey does the N9 have an invisible led like th N950? | 15:44 |
| alterego | Oops, my N950 just ate the pavement :/ | 15:45 |
| alterego | took a little chunk out of one of the corners :( | 15:45 |
| mikhas | :-( | 15:46 |
| aslani | I managed to do the same in july :( | 15:47 |
| mece | ok woo! | 15:48 |
| mece | making progress :D | 15:49 |
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| * Arkenoi wonders if any of e7 cases will fit n950 well | 15:49 | |
| mece | Arkenoi, I doubt that. The screen/keyboard bits fit together in a very different matter on the two devices. | 15:50 |
| mece | ok testing.... | 15:52 |
| mece | comeon bitch, work! | 15:52 |
| npm | i've been carrying my n950 around in a giant sunglasses case to prevent damage | 15:52 |
| mece | I've just been careful. I even left it at home when I went to a blackmetal festival. | 15:53 |
| npm | made a rule... no walking around with it in my pocket (since that's how i broke my n900 screen) | 15:53 |
| *** RzR950 has quit IRC | 15:53 | |
| npm | is that an n950 in a serengeti driver case, or are you just glad to see me... | 15:53 |
| mece | LOL | 15:54 |
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| Venemo | and I just carry the N950 with me everywhere in my pocket. | 15:55 |
| npm | too bad google isn't buying nokia, instead they're buying motorola... | 15:55 |
| npm | so much for wp7 | 15:55 |
| kimju | btw, any suggestions what to use to wipe off fingerprints from the screen? | 15:55 |
| mece | I use an oakey bag | 15:55 |
| mece | or a N900 cloth thing | 15:56 |
| aslani | my t-shirt ... | 15:56 |
| mece | or t-shirt | 15:56 |
| npm | http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-news/google-buys-motorola-mobility-and-its-patent-portfolio-for-125-billion/3752 | 15:56 |
| mece | 125 billion? | 15:56 |
| mece | 12.5 | 15:56 |
| npm | yeah | 15:56 |
| Tronic | Nice boost on Nokia stock. I hear that Kari Stadigh is buying it. | 15:56 |
| npm | that's a good valuation for a shit company | 15:56 |
| npm | looks up kari stadigh | 15:57 |
| Tronic | +10 % so far, in 15 minutes or so. | 15:57 |
| mece | is someone buying nokia? | 15:57 |
| Tronic | mece: Yes, and a lot of it. | 15:57 |
| mece | so is nokia going up due to goolerola? | 15:58 |
| * Arkenoi did fell with motorcycle once with n900 in my pocket (and wearing no protective dress as it was just a short trip to a nearby grocery store). the outer pocket it was in was noticeably damaged, but n900 suffered even not a single scratch. it it was n950 i could shit bricks! | 15:58 | |
| mece | I don't understand the market. why are the other phone companies going up like crazy? | 16:01 |
| npm | Nokia Corporation (NYSE: NOK): traded higher by 8.58% or $0.46/share in pre-market trading to $5.82. In the past year, the shares have traded as low as $4.82 and as high as $11.75. The shares are currently trading below the 200-day moving average but above the 50-day moving average. The stock may be range bound between these two levels where the 200-day moving average of $7.84 represents resistance and the 50-day moving average of $5.74 | 16:02 |
| npm | would be an area of support. | 16:02 |
| Arkenoi | droid could be a good phone if motorola did not try so hard to lock it down with "protected bootloader" and other stupid shit | 16:02 |
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| npm | the market is lemmings running off a cliff. that's all you need to understand | 16:03 |
| * Arkenoi wonders what an idiot does one need to be to spend money to cause troubles to own customers | 16:03 | |
| mece | success! The child does not want to swear!!! | 16:07 |
| Venemo | mece ? | 16:07 |
| mece | it's a quote from south park, but I managed to run stuff on the device :) | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo maemonians | 16:08 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, \o | 16:08 |
| Venemo | moo DocScrutinizer | 16:08 |
| Venemo | mece, congrats, what was wrong? | 16:08 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, all Chaosed out? | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoh | 16:08 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, have you heard that javispedro managed to disable Aegis? | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | scatching the mosquito bites ;-D | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I'm happy I cancelled my "steam roller vs N950" live performance on Camp :-P | 16:10 |
| Venemo | GAN900, just 'cause you said that you were interested: http://twitter.com/#!/Venemo/status/103008339067273216 | 16:10 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer :P | 16:10 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I want hostmode already | 16:10 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: As requested http://www.mwkn.net/2011/33/announce.html#announce-7 | 16:11 |
| GAN900 | Has anybody gotten Firefox yet? | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | who wouldn't, on a device with no swappable storage? | 16:11 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, thanks very much :) | 16:11 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Not the most recent one | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> The app's homepage on wiki.meego.com is linked to from his tweet << MEH!! | 16:12 |
| GAN900 | The WebKit browser is profoundly wrong. | 16:13 |
| mikhas | :-) | 16:13 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, you could have linked http://bit.ly/ircchatter or http://bit.ly/getircchatter :P | 16:13 |
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| mikhas | GAN900, you have no idea about the backstory. Maybe next time we meet, I can tell you some bits. | 16:13 |
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| GAN900 | mikhas, I can only imagine. | 16:14 |
| * GAN900 conjures up evil Symbianites. | 16:15 | |
| RST38h | GAN900: YOu called, Master? | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: you know what I'll do to you when I click one of those URLs and my konqueror _again_ shows a blank page with a lil blue bird, after loading 105 images... | 16:16 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, as I said, click on http://bit.ly/ircchatter or http://bit.ly/getircchatter | 16:17 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, neither of these have anything to do with the little blue bird. | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | and why would I frown on a nice speaking URL like http://wiki.meego.com/User:Venemo/IRC_Chatter#Releases ? | 16:18 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, you wouldn't? thats' a relief :) | 16:18 |
| *** mece has left #harmattan | 16:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer | no I wouldn't. I fact I *hate* tinyURL and similar nonsense | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | just on N950 I see a justification :-D | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: I link to the tweet which links to that. The tweet is the announcement, AFAICS :-p | 16:19 |
| *** Guest41184 is now known as Termana | 16:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | tweet? WTF is a tweet? :-P | 16:20 |
| Termana | morning | 16:20 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, this nonesense is easier to type into a mobile | 16:20 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, otherwise I agree withy ou | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | then we are all on same page regarding this :-D | 16:21 |
| Venemo | yeah, definitely :) | 16:21 |
| RST38h | BTW, has soeone collected ALL links to harmattan based projects into a single page? | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...just because friggin N950 is missing cross app c&p | 16:21 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, it can C&P, just not into the browser. | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: awesome suggestion | 16:22 |
| RST38h | preferably not hosted on meego.com | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | why not? | 16:22 |
| Venemo | RST38h, make a wiki.meego.com/Harmattan/Projects | 16:23 |
| Venemo | and also move all harmattan-related shit under wiki.meego.com/harmattan/... | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | or s/meego/maemo/ | 16:23 |
| RST38h | Doc:no, I meant it | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | but still keep the /harmattan/* | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | a public html based bookmarks page - awesome | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp since "bookmarks" in harm browser are a hoax | 16:25 |
| Venemo | are there even bookmarks in harmattan browser? | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 16:25 |
| Venemo | if there are, I wasn't able to find 'em | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | "add to apps" | 16:26 |
| Venemo | but I don't wanna add to apps | 16:26 |
| Venemo | just to favorites | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's called "desktop shortcut" in fremantle | 16:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kinda | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moo | 16:26 |
| javispedro | moo. | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: thanks for http://www.datasheetarchive.com/indexdl/Datasheet-082/DASF0044888.pdf | 16:26 |
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| RST38h | moo, javispedro | 16:27 |
| Venemo | hey TermanaN950 | 16:27 |
| RST38h | javispedro: http://fms.komkon.org/EmuMeego/ <-- multitouch should be supported in these binaries | 16:27 |
| javispedro | cool! | 16:27 |
| TermanaN950 | Venemo, irc-chatter interface looks good | 16:28 |
| Termana | Could use a better name though :p | 16:28 |
| Venemo | thanks TermanaN950 :) | 16:28 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: sadly you see on it how there are two independent I2S ports, one for BT and one for radio | 16:29 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: if you understand it in a different way, do tell :) | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'll have a look into it | 16:30 |
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| * javispedro has been since a few days ago officially pessimistic about fmrx on the N950. | 16:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: sounds like mega clusterfsck :-S | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | GIVE US SCHEMATICS!!!!!!! | 16:31 |
| javispedro | there's an additional problem | 16:31 |
| javispedro | there have been many revisions of the n950 seemingyl | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 16:31 |
| javispedro | and fmrx has been moved around like crazy | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | how could you tell? | 16:32 |
| javispedro | so if you ever get schematics, you will always want to know whether they are the right version or not. | 16:32 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: comments in board-rm680* files | 16:32 |
| * DocScrutinizer points Nokia to OM Neo FreeRunner schematics, which for a good reason have "cumulated" in the name | 16:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer | If there'd been major schematic schanges, I'd even have added separate detail figures for A4, A5, A6 hw rev | 16:34 |
| javispedro | either way, as far as I can guess from the kernel about the current hw: bt I2S connected to SOC, FM_EN line connected to a SOC GPIO, and analog output connected to AUX twl input | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | but on OM it was sufficient to mark component values like "A4: NC; A5: 1uF; A6: 100uF" | 16:35 |
| Venemo_N950 | javispedro, what does that mean in layman's terms? | 16:41 |
| javispedro | Venemo_N950: no fmrx audio, only RDS. | 16:42 |
| Venemo_N950 | what is RDS? | 16:43 |
| javispedro | because I've not been able to find anything in the AUX input. | 16:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Radio Data System | 16:44 |
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| Venemo_N950 | and what use is it? | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a few bits/second of flags and text about the current channel. | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | 'this channel is also broadcast on xx.x MHz, and this is a traffic announcement' | 16:44 |
| Venemo_N950 | aah. | 16:45 |
| Venemo_N950 | thx | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | So your radio can switch to alternate transmitters, and to traffic announcements if you want it to. | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ""just playing: Heino - jaja so braun..." | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | highly useless if you can't get the audio this info is all about | 16:45 |
| Venemo_N950 | agreed | 16:46 |
| javispedro | so, things left to try: whether the FM I2S is connected to another McBSP port in the SOC without being marked as such in the kernel (no idea without schematic and not very probable) | 16:46 |
| javispedro | AND | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | analog | 16:46 |
| javispedro | whether we are doing something wrong with the twl codec mixer and we are not properly capturing the AUX input. | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | mux | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | If it talks over I2C, isn't there a signal indication on the chip? | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Signal level? | 16:46 |
| javispedro | the chip actually has a few protocols | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui you can actually mux I2S | 16:47 |
| javispedro | HCI, I2C | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | If you look at that, and it's not present - game over. | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | one master, multiple slaves | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | (if it's tuned right) | 16:47 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: it works, I can even get RDS as said | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - I diddn't read scrollback. | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Any indication of the sensitivity? | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Are you right up against a transmitter/ | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | RX? | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | good enough | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | RX | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is it more normal. | 16:48 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: using HCI you can completely ignore the Nokia driver and configure the chip the way you want (for example set the I2S registers to your pleasure) | 16:48 |
| javispedro | but obviously, I'm not going to bang the registers randomly ... need guidance. | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, the options: | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume we don't have a datasheet? | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I2S is "muxed", or we didn't find the right config anyway | 16:49 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: part of it: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/indexdl/Datasheet-082/DASF0044888.pdf | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | or we got some McBSP input "somewhere else" (codec) | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | or we got an analog signal path | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | either to codec or directly to amp | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: ah | 16:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or it's connected to some of the ports already tried, but the driver isn't properly selecting them due to inadequate testing/coding of bits that are unused. | 16:51 |
| javispedro | that's why I thought initially | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, might go under "config" | 16:51 |
| javispedro | *what. | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | GIVE US SCHEMATICS!!!!!!! | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | DAMN! | 16:52 |
| javispedro | :) | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, it'd be more sensible to RE a motorola device than this one | 16:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | at least less insulting | 16:52 |
| javispedro | the kernel _does_ say (found it in something that is power management related, go figure) about the analog path via AUX, so that should be the most probable option. | 16:53 |
| Venemo_N950 | DocScrutinizer, you mean, a google device? | 16:53 |
| Venemo_N950 | as they must bought motorola | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | as there we KNOW we are on our own, while Nokia claims they *support* community for N9(50) | 16:53 |
| javispedro | maybe we could ping someone about this | 16:53 |
| javispedro | how was the FMRX stuff solved on the N900? | 16:53 |
| javispedro | the initial situation was similar | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: try tero kojo | 16:53 |
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| rm_work | so, confirmed there IS an FM receiver chip? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | in the end it might have been for exactly this reason why he suggested I shall get a N950 | 16:54 |
| rm_work | but not yet clear whether it will do both RX/TX? | 16:54 |
| RzR950 | and emitter | 16:54 |
| rm_work | ah, TX is confirmed? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | rm_work: not confirmed if it will do RX even | 16:55 |
| rm_work | lol | 16:55 |
| rm_work | well, not confirmed it will DO it | 16:55 |
| RzR950 | there is a thread on the forum | 16:55 |
| rm_work | but that the chip is present and hooked up | 16:55 |
| javispedro | tx is pretty much out of the question also | 16:55 |
| fiferboy | DocScrutinizer: Tero isn't at Nokia anymore, is he? | 16:55 |
| RzR950 | the pb is the antenna | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | TX has no antenna | 16:55 |
| javispedro | because it has the same problem as fmrx plus no antenna. | 16:55 |
| rm_work | lol | 16:55 |
| rm_work | k | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Tero? I thought he still is | 16:55 |
| rm_work | nothing a little soldering can't solve :P | 16:55 |
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| javispedro | actually it has a problem worse than fmrx, because fmtx requires _a DIFFERENT analog path_. | 16:55 |
| javispedro | (OR, the same digital path -- but it is probably not connected... | 16:56 |
| javispedro | ) | 16:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eeeew, | 16:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer <---- idiot | 16:56 | |
| RzR950 | maybe a hw mod could fix it | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | konttori | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | not tekojo | 16:57 |
| fiferboy | DocScrutinizer: Tero is ex-Nokia | 16:57 |
| javispedro | ex-nokia? :( | 16:57 |
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| rm_work | RzR950: yeah that's what i was thinking... solder a little antenna on there... problem solved? :P | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Tero *is* ex afaik | 16:57 |
| w00t_ | he left a while ago | 16:57 |
| rm_work | at least *that* problem | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: konttori | 16:58 |
| mece | is there a list of available icons somewhere? To use as ToolIcon icons? | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | (my name subprocessor didn't boot yet) | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's always been crap anyway | 16:58 |
| RzR950 | usually antenna are on the jack cable | 16:59 |
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| fiferboy | mece: I haven't seen one | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | RzR950: nope | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | only for RX | 17:01 |
| RzR950 | ok | 17:01 |
| mece | bleh | 17:01 |
| fiferboy | mece: I usually just recursively grep for names that look like what I want :( | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that one is confirmed for RX on 950 | 17:01 |
| RzR950 | for tx where are antenna placed on n900 | 17:02 |
| RzR950 | ? | 17:02 |
| javispedro | RzR950: internal | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | small antenna inside | 17:02 |
| javispedro | so | 17:03 |
| javispedro | trying to describe the steps to configure alsa card#0 (aka twl) to capture from aux analog inpu | 17:03 |
| javispedro | t | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ok, we got I2S plus analog for RX and TX | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | on chip | 17:04 |
| javispedro | develsh, alsamixer -c 0, press F4, set "Analog" volume to max using arrow keys, enable Analog Left AUXL and Analog Left AUXR using spacebar | 17:04 |
| javispedro | then move to the right until you find TX1 and set it to "Analog" using arrow keys (this part is hazy) | 17:05 |
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| javispedro | (note: obviously this breaks phone until reboot) | 17:05 |
| javispedro | (which is one of the reasons I'd prefer the I2S path being connected..) | 17:06 |
| javispedro | and to capture, arecord -Dhw:0,0 -fS16_LE | 17:06 |
| RST38h | what evil magic are you performing on that n950? | 17:06 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 17:06 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: trying to guess if fmrx will ever work or not | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Operate BT. | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Send an FM ON command via the HCI. | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | If FM is switched off, first send an FM_OFF command. | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Then, send a BT_OFF command. | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | In shared mode, the operation of the FM Enable should be performed in the following sequence: | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1 | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2 | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3 | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4 | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Failing to turn the FM core off before the BT core results in the FM remaining on. | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops | 17:07 |
| * javispedro kicks DocScrutinizer | 17:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer | s/[1234]// | 17:07 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: we can choose not to use shared mode, as we can access the chip via I2C. | 17:08 |
| javispedro | either way, shared mode works. I can tune via HCI. | 17:08 |
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| javispedro | but no audio. | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | so make sure FM is properly turned on | 17:08 |
| javispedro | in non-shared mode it's enough to assert FM_EN | 17:08 |
| javispedro | aiui. | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | never believe crappy DS | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 17:09 |
| CaCO3 | does anybody know if it is possible to get the "com.nokia.extras" from QML installed under Linux? | 17:09 |
| CaCO3 | they seem not to be in the SDK | 17:09 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: "The FM primarily shares the Bluetooth HCI interface. This solution also has a dedicated I2C interface, | 17:10 |
| javispedro | but it is not typically used." -- yet that is what the stock Nokia driver uses ;) | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seems like time for "N950 exploded" ? | 17:11 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: not sure I have the eye to see something from it. | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: my scanner did a good job on N900 ;-D | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | GIVE US SChem.....blaergh! | 17:12 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: back in the game i see... | 17:12 |
| ajalkane | CaCO3: yes, compile qt-components from gitorious | 17:12 |
| javispedro | I want my FMRX! =) | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: yoh, javispedro killed the grendel | 17:13 |
| CaCO3 | ajalkane: thanks. Do you know of any prebuilt ones (Ubuntu or debian) | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | all hail to javispedro | 17:13 |
| RST38h | javispedro: you mean, you are still listening to fm radio? =) | 17:13 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: also thank lizardo's post, as he has provided the path for custom kernels | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mmmmm | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | been "offline" for a week | 17:14 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1068445&postcount=31 | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL tmo | 17:15 |
| javispedro | that is probably more useful for USB host than my method, unless you can fully add host as a kmod (doubtful ;) ). | 17:16 |
| ajalkane | CaCO3: search kate alhola's blog, prebuilt for ubuntu in forum nokia ppa | 17:17 |
| CaCO3 | ajalkane: I just realise that I have them already installed, how ever they still do not get found :( | 17:17 |
| CaCO3 | in /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia there are 2 folders: extras1.1 , meego | 17:18 |
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| CaCO3 | is it possible they are not complete? (means nokia keeps some of the components propretary) | 17:20 |
| fiferboy | CaCO3: QtSDK doesn't use that directory, you have to simlink those into your QtSDK structure | 17:20 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, Tero's with somebody else. | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I know | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mixed names | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | konttori | 17:21 |
| fiferboy | CaCO3: ln -s /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com ~/QtSDK/Desktop/Qt/474/gcc/imports | 17:21 |
| fiferboy | CaCO3: Is what I did | 17:21 |
| fiferboy | s/474/473/ | 17:22 |
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| ajalkane | CaCO3: i had to rename extras1.1 to extras for it to work | 17:22 |
| fiferboy | Also keep in mind extras 1.1 is not on the device, so anything using those components won't work on the N950 (with our firmware) | 17:23 |
| CaCO3 | yup, I know, I am using 1.0 | 17:24 |
| CaCO3 | I made the symlin, but it still cant be found :( | 17:24 |
| ajalkane | also, as fiferboy said, they must be under the correct gcc that is used | 17:24 |
| CaCO3 | and why is it under gcc? I use python, there is nothing to be compiled | 17:24 |
| CaCO3 | also, it actually should work native with the qmlviewer | 17:25 |
| fiferboy | CaCO3: Are you using Qt Creator in the QtSDK? | 17:25 |
| ajalkane | did you rename extras1.1 | 17:25 |
| CaCO3 | yes and yes | 17:25 |
| CaCO3 | but I write the qml files with a plain editor and use qmlviewer to test it | 17:26 |
| CaCO3 | it works finde, until I now want to use the com.nokia.extras | 17:26 |
| fiferboy | CaCO3: The system QML viewer? Or QtSDK? | 17:26 |
| CaCO3 | didnt know there is one in qt creator (at least never found one) | 17:27 |
| fiferboy | CaCO3: Ok, I wasn't sure (I don't use qml viewer) | 17:28 |
| fiferboy | So the system one should pick up extras without needing to simlink it anywhere | 17:28 |
| CaCO3 | yup, I guess so | 17:28 |
| fiferboy | Hmm | 17:28 |
| CaCO3 | I am wondering why it is labled extras1.1 | 17:28 |
| CaCO3 | I symlinked it to extras as well as to extras1.0, but no success | 17:29 |
| fiferboy | Mine is called extras.1.1 | 17:29 |
| CaCO3 | I am actually not the only one with this problem: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/07/06/ready-made-ui-building-blocks-at-your-service-qt-quick-components-for-symbian-and-meego-1-2-harmattan/#comment-23098 | 17:29 |
| CaCO3 | post 32 | 17:29 |
| ajalkane | you can try replacing in extras all references to 1.1 to 1.0 | 17:31 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: well make sure not to upgrade your device. I'm pretty sure that's going to get plugged. | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah :-// | 17:32 |
| ajalkane | ie all qml files and qmldir | 17:32 |
| dm8tbr | ofc you can just do the manual dance from now, manual filesystem copies from other devices or unpacked fiasco | 17:32 |
| CaCO3 | ajalkane: I dont thin k this would work, because I also tried "import com.nokia.extras 1.0" | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | which again defeats the whole purpose of developing hostmode for the 'masses' | 17:32 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: the connector defeats it for the masses, full stop. :/ | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, there are adapters | 17:33 |
| javispedro | dm8tbr: at this point I doubt it will be plugged. Either way, how it is handled will tell much about what we should expect. | 17:33 |
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| ajalkane | what qt libs are installed on your system? maybe they're too old | 17:34 |
| dm8tbr | well the adapters are pretty non-standard though | 17:34 |
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| CaCO3 | ajalkane: I have an up to date Ubuntu Natty, so I dont thinks that should be a problem | 17:35 |
| CaCO3 | ajalkane: can you create a file main.qml with only the line "import com.nokia.extras 1.0" in it? And then open it with qmlviewer? | 17:38 |
| ajalkane | i've never used qmlviewer and can't test now, at work. Works with my C++ app and qt 4.7.4 | 17:39 |
| CaCO3 | hmm, ok, anyway, thank you very much for your time! | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (plugged) In my book we (devel community) got two options now: either keep it low profile, hoping for nobody @ Nok caring about it, or B) NUKE aegis OFF THE PLANET so epicaly that Nokia would look stipid to even keep it in N9 firmware | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | +l s/i/o/ | 17:40 |
| RST38h | (B) will never happen | 17:40 |
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| RST38h | Nokia does not care, Harmattan does not even exist for most of its high-ranking managers | 17:41 |
| RST38h | So, (A) | 17:41 |
| * javispedro agrees. | 17:41 | |
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| javispedro | though we will see. | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: they are as nonstandard as they were for N900 - still USB hostmode for N900 is one of the most popular and appreciated "apps" ever | 17:41 |
| Arkenoi | is there .deb that automates nuking aegis already? :-) | 17:41 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: do we know how many real users it has? | 17:41 |
| dm8tbr | I mean I could install it too, but it would be pretty much useless, the download counted though | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly, but the videos "hostmode on N900" at youtube as zillion | 17:42 |
| dm8tbr | colour me unconvinced then | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | the threads are under the 100 longest ever on tmo | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are even *donations* :-O | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | (some xx$ sigma) | 17:43 |
| dm8tbr | I don't doubt there are real users, still how many did go to the length of procuring an special adapter through mail-order and then use it remains unknown | 17:44 |
| dm8tbr | it's like with my postings how to attach to the UART on Archos devices | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: on N9 we got no uSD slot... So hostmode becomes *essential* for a lot of usecases | 17:45 |
| dm8tbr | yes, but will it be practical? | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 17:45 |
| dm8tbr | I know it is possible. | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | if Nokia doesn't spoil soup | 17:46 |
| dm8tbr | but to which lengths will the average joe have to go? | 17:46 |
| hardaker2 | quick speed-up devel hack: http://pontifications.hardakers.net/computers/speeding-up-qml-development-on-an-n950/ | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | err what? | 17:46 |
| hardaker2 | (that I just wrote up) | 17:46 |
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| djszapi | lbt: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard -> Can you give me a helping hand about it ? | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | average joe gets a F-F USB, installs hostmode app, plugs in his digital cam during holiday, and selects "hostmode" from appstarter, to upload photos to flickr | 17:47 |
| dm8tbr | a) install custom kernel that breaks a few things by putting device in open mode: I'd see maybe 30% people do that if you're optimistic | 17:47 |
| djszapi | lbt: I have seen that sort of error message more times recently in case more packages. | 17:48 |
| dm8tbr | b) procure special adapter through mail order: let's say you lose about 70% of the former people here | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: that's exactly what I've been talking about ALL THE TIME | 17:48 |
| djszapi | putting into open mode is actually one liner :) | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia killing it with aegis | 17:48 |
| javispedro | dm8tbr: you do not need to enter open mode on the N900 nor order the adapter via mail, it's pretty much a F2F one | 17:48 |
| djszapi | nah... | 17:48 |
| djszapi | 1 line only, that is | 17:48 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: sorry to delusion you, aegis part in this is rather small | 17:48 |
| kimju | djszapi, and that line is? | 17:48 |
| dm8tbr | javispedro: we're talking harmattan aren't we? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: on N900 not many users were concerned to install powerkernel | 17:49 |
| javispedro | dm8tbr: but the only problem in Harmattan is the introduction of Aegis. | 17:49 |
| djszapi | kimju: am I your guest for a beer ? :p | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | many didn't even notice hostmode came with new kernel | 17:49 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: n900 is _completely_ different target audience | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: And not selling the n950 | 17:49 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: sorry, at work. Log a bug and prod me later :) | 17:49 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: huh? | 17:50 |
| kimju | djszapi, ? | 17:50 |
| lbt | err djszapi | 17:50 |
| dm8tbr | :) | 17:50 |
| javispedro | dm8tbr: sorry but I side with DocScrutinizer here, just look at all the overclocking threads and the average IQ there. | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: I give a sh*t about target audience, as I AM NOT target audience of N9 | 17:50 |
| djszapi | lbt: right ;) | 17:50 |
| djszapi | kimju: if I tell you :p | 17:50 |
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| dm8tbr | javispedro / DocScrutinizer - sorry, but I have to diagnose you with a severe case of WHOOOOOSH. | 17:50 |
| dm8tbr | I don't question feasibility for your likes | 17:51 |
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| * javispedro sighs and gives up | 17:51 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: I wonder why you initially joined harmattan hostmode project then? | 17:52 |
| kimju | djszapi, well, I can buy you a beer if you provide a simple way to get the device into open mode :) | 17:52 |
| djszapi | javispedro: you were not here, but your scream about a "serious" bug is actually a feature... | 17:52 |
| dm8tbr | 14:51:08< dm8tbr> I don't question feasibility for your likes | 17:52 |
| djszapi | which is not available in sale devices.... | 17:52 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: c.f. whooooooosh | 17:52 |
| djszapi | * sales | 17:52 |
| djszapi | kimju: add this line: "memset(&valinfo, 0, sizeof(valinfo));" after valinfo.kmod_init = (val & KMOD_BIT) ? 1 : 0; | 17:52 |
| javispedro | djszapi: remember the part about "we are sure this is intentional" | 17:52 |
| djszapi | it is not intentional in sales devices, no. | 17:53 |
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| javispedro | that would mean sales devices would not have the ability to flash a kernel, load new kernel modules, or use develsh. | 17:53 |
| javispedro | so I disagree. | 17:53 |
| kimju | djszapi, ah, saw that on the tmo thread. I thought you had method to do that without changing the kernel. | 17:53 |
| javispedro | (for my sanity) | 17:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders to already /part again | 17:54 | |
| djszapi | javispedro: so you expect guarantee for custom kernels from Nokia haha funky | 17:54 |
| javispedro | djszapi: that's how it has been on all previous devices so far. | 17:54 |
| javispedro | and that's what was promised years ago | 17:54 |
| djszapi | what ? | 17:55 |
| djszapi | support for any kernel on a device ? | 17:55 |
| djszapi | you must be joking. | 17:55 |
| javispedro | _custom_ kernels on any maemo devices. | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH!! | 17:55 |
| kimju | this is not a maemo device.. :) | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | trollololololllololllolllollolololo | 17:55 |
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| javispedro | not any kernel obviously ;) | 17:55 |
| djszapi | kimju: that might be the way of doing it I think so. | 17:56 |
| djszapi | javispedro: sorry, I do not know what you mean. | 17:56 |
| hardaker2 | grr... what's the #ifdef for meego? | 17:56 |
| hardaker2 | can't find it | 17:57 |
| javispedro | djszapi: by the way, on that error log, have you seen ./kgraphicswebview.moc:79: error: no matching function for call to 'KGraphicsWebView::selectionClipboardUrlPasted(const KUrl&)' ? | 17:58 |
| javispedro | djszapi: there might be a mismatch between the header and cpp file | 17:58 |
| djszapi | hardaker2: there is something here, but I do not know whether it is a custom or system-wide define :p http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/kcalcore/commit/8aa0b8539c5ba04adbdc637786ae6c0cb2c96e82/diffs | 17:58 |
| djszapi | I can imagine it is custom. | 17:58 |
| djszapi | javispedro: nope | 17:59 |
| djszapi | that has nothing to do with that. | 17:59 |
| djszapi | it is an automoc issue, actually. | 17:59 |
| javispedro | heh. | 17:59 |
| djszapi | if you check out, that is a signal, it has no definition ion cpp.... | 17:59 |
| djszapi | * in | 17:59 |
| hardaker2 | djszapi: will test, thanks. | 18:00 |
| hardaker2 | (yeah, that doesn't work) | 18:01 |
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| djszapi | I think someone already complained about it so that it is missing. | 18:02 |
| dm8tbr | *sigh* DocScrutinizer really needs to learn that there may be diverging opinions and that they don't necessary mean hostility, sometimes even are meant well... | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | As do some others. | 18:06 |
| RST38h | Hey, dm8tbr, are you a psychiatrist or something? | 18:06 |
| RST38h | And if so, will you mind doing a class on non-violent confrontation as a way to solve problems? | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Like right now, right here? =) | 18:07 |
| hardaker2 | yep, here's the bug: https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com//browse/QTBUG-19737 | 18:07 |
| dm8tbr | RST38h: just referring to my previous discussion. | 18:07 |
| dm8tbr | RST38h: nice troll... | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Ok, so no psychiatrist? | 18:07 |
| djszapi | hardaker2: yeah, mm: Should be available with the next Qt SDK update (the one that will also have Creator 2.3). | 18:08 |
| hardaker2 | yep. | 18:08 |
| hardaker2 | but, um, I need it now!!! | 18:08 |
| hardaker2 | sigh. | 18:08 |
| dm8tbr | RST38h: no | 18:08 |
| hardaker2 | I wonder if there is an ifdef for "arm" | 18:08 |
| djszapi | there is | 18:08 |
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| hardaker2 | because then you could rule out the others and be left with that. | 18:08 |
| hardaker2 | know what it is by chance? | 18:09 |
| hardaker2 | (I was just about to go grep headers) | 18:09 |
| dm8tbr | RST38h: and i fail to see why i need to be one to have an opinion | 18:09 |
| djszapi | I am looking into this :p | 18:09 |
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| hardaker2 | QT_ARCH_ARM | 18:10 |
| * GAN900 hands every one in the room a basket of fresh fruit. | 18:10 | |
| ajalkane | examples have ifdef __arm__ | 18:10 |
| hardaker2 | yeah, QT_ARCH_ARM didn't actually seem to be caught. | 18:11 |
| hardaker2 | __arm__ doesn't get caught either. | 18:12 |
| Tronic | aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec says Error: Permission denied | 18:12 |
| Tronic | Maybe this is because I have installed software from Store? | 18:12 |
| sebas | hardaker2: #ifdef __ARMEL__ seems to work here | 18:12 |
| hardaker2 | ahh.... | 18:12 |
| hardaker2 | different problem. | 18:12 |
| hardaker2 | ifelse's weren't working | 18:13 |
| hardaker2 | nested in the else it worked. | 18:13 |
| djszapi | :) | 18:13 |
| hardaker2 | and when done that way, both __arm__ and __ARMEL__ work | 18:13 |
| javispedro | Tronic: you need to run develsh first | 18:14 |
| djszapi | I am desperately asking, is there any alternative for c-obs ? :p | 18:15 |
| kimju | scratchbox? | 18:16 |
| javispedro | djszapi: you mean you cannot reproduce that problem in scratchbox or madde? | 18:16 |
| Tronic | javispedro: Ah, I thought that being root was enough (I know, bad assumptions, when it comes to aegis). | 18:16 |
| djszapi | kimju: I mean a system with which I can build and distribute | 18:16 |
| djszapi | the autobuilder from maemo.org wasn't really reliable too. | 18:17 |
| kimju | obs seems to build things ok, it just what happens after the build that's the problem for me. | 18:19 |
| djszapi | well..... | 18:20 |
| djszapi | it is really no go we have been stuck for more than 1 month with kdelibs | 18:20 |
| djszapi | and there is no prospect about it it is getting better. | 18:20 |
| djszapi | and it forgets distributing packages for days and so on. | 18:21 |
| djszapi | I was thinking about that to write scripts that uploads it my web storage or so. | 18:21 |
| djszapi | * to | 18:21 |
| djszapi | I do not see any progress on its stability. | 18:22 |
| javispedro | djszapi: did you read my comments in #meego on OBS using -j4 by default? | 18:23 |
| javispedro | I do not know if this could cause problems in automoc though | 18:23 |
| javispedro | (cause I do not know how automoc works) | 18:23 |
| javispedro | but if seems like a random or unexplainable problem then it's probably because of this. | 18:24 |
| djszapi | I do not care about meego :) | 18:24 |
| djszapi | yeah, sure "random" or "unexplainable", but the my concern is that there is /no/ progress | 18:24 |
| djszapi | and it makes me sad. | 18:24 |
| javispedro | well there is no visible progress indeed. | 18:25 |
| javispedro | but it's august :) | 18:25 |
| djszapi | I was asking the OBS guy taking the presentation at the desktop summit about it, but apparently, I did not get any useful answer, unfortunately. | 18:25 |
| djszapi | it seems to be not a high priority for them to support harmattan, that is | 18:25 |
| djszapi | yes, august hacking time for students and employees, so it should work... | 18:26 |
| djszapi | as for me, it seems a simple script helps much more than c-obs for now :) | 18:26 |
| djszapi | it could all be much nicer if we could directly distribute on the c-obs without building for emergency cases, like this.... | 18:28 |
| djszapi | we should not even have any custom script with "third-party" web service. | 18:28 |
| javispedro | well | 18:29 |
| javispedro | that was one of the usecases for non-free in the old autobuilder | 18:29 |
| javispedro | some people who couldn't get their packages through the builder uploaded directly there | 18:30 |
| javispedro | which is why I will always say we need a non-free repo. | 18:30 |
| djszapi | kdelibs is completely free | 18:31 |
| djszapi | the files are also uploaded properly (source-wise) | 18:31 |
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| djszapi | I do not need closed stuff really. | 18:31 |
| djszapi | but I need an opportunity for direct distributing until the system cannot simply work. | 18:31 |
| djszapi | feel free to propose any better, I am open for any idea, that could help.. | 18:32 |
| djszapi | can* | 18:33 |
| javispedro | just in case, you could try adding forcing a serial build | 18:34 |
| javispedro | s/adding// | 18:34 |
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| djszapi | I do not know what that is. | 18:34 |
| javispedro | -j1 | 18:35 |
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| djszapi | so 20 hours for kdelibs ? :) | 18:35 |
| djszapi | sorry, no, that is no go :D | 18:35 |
| javispedro | but no idea what automoc fails on remote then | 18:35 |
| javispedro | it is probably the same automoc that is on scratchbox | 18:35 |
| djszapi | it is not about automoc | 18:35 |
| javispedro | so what's failing? | 18:35 |
| djszapi | that is a different issue (do not ask why it appeared just right now) | 18:35 |
| djszapi | the current one is a separate issue, not sure how to solve this one.... | 18:36 |
| djszapi | but this one is not the main point. | 18:36 |
| djszapi | it is fixable with lot of time waste. | 18:36 |
| * javispedro has no idea what is broken then | 18:36 | |
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| javispedro | either way, one thing we should probably poke X-Fade about someday is to setup the x86 HARMATTAN target | 18:37 |
| djszapi | see ? That is the thing, and that is why we need to have direct distribtion until the system is broken | 18:37 |
| djszapi | * while | 18:37 |
| javispedro | to eliminate all qemu-caused problems. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | djszapi: but what is broken? :) | 18:37 |
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| djszapi | c-obs | 18:37 |
| javispedro | I've been able to diagnose and/or consistently reproduce all of the problems I've had with it so far. | 18:38 |
| djszapi | see this one, this is the real isuse: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan | 18:38 |
| djszapi | ok, please deal with kdelibs | 18:38 |
| djszapi | and see you in 3-4 weeks :) | 18:38 |
| djszapi | I could also manage almost /all/ the other issues, but this | 18:38 |
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| dm8tbr | random guess: out of memory? | 18:39 |
| djszapi | that would cause kernel boooom | 18:40 |
| djszapi | so everything else would fail, but other packages are building fine in paralel. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | djszapi: can you capture and pastebin a successful build log of the library? | 18:42 |
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| djszapi | javispedro: no sorry, I will be quite frankly with you: | 18:43 |
| djszapi | I have spent 1 month from my life with it and so many builds and try. I lost all my sake. | 18:43 |
| djszapi | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22650 | 18:43 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 22650 cri, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, Direct distribution opportunity while c-obs cannot simply work | 18:43 |
| javispedro | hum | 18:45 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: not necessarily, a properly set up system will starve processes without killing itself | 18:45 |
| javispedro | it actually builds succesfully | 18:45 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: btdt | 18:45 |
| javispedro | /usr/bin/make -f debian/rules dhmk_run_install_commands DHMK_TARGET="install" | 18:46 |
| javispedro | it fails during install target | 18:46 |
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| djszapi | javispedro: yes. | 18:46 |
| javispedro | therefore if it is able to build webkit without a problem I'd say out of memory is out of the question | 18:46 |
| djszapi | dm8tbr: sorry ? | 18:46 |
| javispedro | unless it is out of disk space | 18:46 |
| djszapi | javispedro: out of space would show up in any package afterwards | 18:46 |
| javispedro | dunno, vm gets killed | 18:47 |
| djszapi | also, no space left is a typical error message on linux systems. | 18:47 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: you said that running out of memory would ' cause kernel boooom' - this is not necessarily true | 18:47 |
| javispedro | what you need is someone to login on the VM at that moment and give you a shell | 18:47 |
| javispedro | it should not be that hard | 18:47 |
| javispedro | but I can empathize about how it seems extremely difficult to get that done by the staff. | 18:48 |
| djszapi | javispedro: I do not see any better option than distributing directly. | 18:48 |
| javispedro | sadly I have to give a BIG NO to binary distribution | 18:49 |
| javispedro | because for me it's as good as a non-free. | 18:49 |
| djszapi | not really..since it would work that way. | 18:49 |
| javispedro | the bug can be fixed and will be fixed. | 18:49 |
| djszapi | hahahaahahahaha | 18:49 |
| djszapi | we have been waiting for 1 month. | 18:49 |
| djszapi | no progress, not even expected. | 18:50 |
| djszapi | you can "nicely" say that, but imagine that how many kde developer could write and port their applications in the meantime. | 18:50 |
| djszapi | 1 month is fairly a lot of time for a community, like KDE. | 18:50 |
| djszapi | developers* | 18:50 |
| javispedro | I do not think that is a problem then | 18:50 |
| dm8tbr | or we could clone the setup | 18:51 |
| javispedro | you can just setup a private repo for the time being | 18:51 |
| javispedro | _everyone_ is doing it eitherway for the time being | 18:51 |
| djszapi | javispedro: I cannot distribute directly to c=obs.... | 18:51 |
| djszapi | that is what I am asking.... | 18:51 |
| javispedro | outside of COBS | 18:51 |
| dm8tbr | it should be possible to copy the harmattan targetg | 18:51 |
| javispedro | either way, most of the COBS staff is in #meego | 18:51 |
| javispedro | this conversation should be held there. | 18:52 |
| dm8tbr | test on own obs instance if it happens | 18:52 |
| djszapi | javispedro: However I do not connect to #meego, that is for sure :) | 18:52 |
| javispedro | or even test ocs build locally | 18:52 |
| djszapi | and well...lbt is here anyway | 18:52 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: did you try local build using osc? | 18:52 |
| *** harbaum has quit IRC | 18:52 | |
| djszapi | javispedro: you mean osc, not ocs.... | 18:52 |
| javispedro | yes | 18:52 |
| djszapi | do not be confused, they are rather different things | 18:53 |
| djszapi | dm8tbr: yes, local osc works as I said gazillion + 1 times here ;) | 18:53 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: then it's pretty sure a hardware/setup/config constraint | 18:53 |
| javispedro | or a parallel thing ;) | 18:53 |
| djszapi | I still stick by: the nicest solution is to have direct distribution for the time being, of course only just for emergency cases with sysadmin approvals. | 18:53 |
| javispedro | there's no emergency | 18:54 |
| javispedro | it's not like the community client app is already done and users are already missing the KDE apps | 18:54 |
| djszapi | javispedro: do not troll :) | 18:54 |
| djszapi | 1 month is emergency enough ;) | 18:54 |
| javispedro | djszapi: developers can use your private repo _outside_ of COBS | 18:54 |
| djszapi | or well, feel free prove me wrong :) | 18:54 |
| djszapi | and make it work .... | 18:54 |
| javispedro | developers can even even use a package uplaoded somewhere | 18:55 |
| djszapi | "...users are already missing the KDE apps..." -> Yes, they are. I talked to a lot of kde folks in Berlin. | 18:55 |
| djszapi | they indeed really missed them. | 18:55 |
| javispedro | I had a similar situation with SDL when OBS had no nokia-binaries | 18:55 |
| dm8tbr | djszapi: do you and the kde folks see a way to drum up some donations to beef up COBS? | 18:56 |
| javispedro | so what I did is to hang it up on a directory on my server and refer people to it | 18:56 |
| djszapi | "...developers can use your private repo _outside_ of COBS..." -> sure, but you just missed the word "nicest" in my sentence ;) | 18:56 |
| djszapi | so then again, c-obs was designed for this even if it is hilariously non-working. | 18:56 |
| lbt | we need details and someone to spend some time pinpointing the problem | 18:56 |
| djszapi | starting X different services out there is really inconsistent. | 18:56 |
| djszapi | lbt: give me access | 18:56 |
| djszapi | to the server | 18:57 |
| lbt | no | 18:57 |
| javispedro | lbt: do you think it would be hard to provide a sshd to the vm when it's stuck that way? | 18:57 |
| djszapi | or someone trustworthy. | 18:57 |
| lbt | yes it would be hard | 18:57 |
| javispedro | otherwise debugging this is probably extremely hard considering it happens during install time and considering also the size of hte package. | 18:57 |
| djszapi | lbt: please progress progress progress | 18:57 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: is it possible to export the 'harmattan' target? :) | 18:57 |
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| lbt | so the bug report is useless | 18:57 |
| dm8tbr | I'm asking for several reasons obviously | 18:57 |
| lbt | how much of kdelibs builds? | 18:58 |
| djszapi | lbt: we are discussing the same issues like 1 month ago | 18:58 |
| lbt | have you uploaded partial source? | 18:58 |
| djszapi | there is no progress | 18:58 |
| lbt | and done a bisect? | 18:58 |
| javispedro | lbt: all of it builds, it fails during install target | 18:58 |
| javispedro | which is the rather weird part | 18:58 |
| lbt | javispedro: not in bug report | 18:58 |
| djszapi | javispedro: not entirely true | 18:58 |
| djszapi | javispedro: it sometimes fails with the same job timeout during the build | 18:58 |
| javispedro | so it's RANDOM?? | 18:58 |
| javispedro | that's interesting | 18:58 |
| lbt | so you don't actually know (despite detailed logs... ) what's happening? | 18:58 |
| lbt | and you want me to fix it? | 18:58 |
| djszapi | lbt: who else would fix it if you do not give access to us ? :) | 18:59 |
| djszapi | so we cannot debug it ? | 18:59 |
| * javispedro now _really_ suggests forcing -j1 | 18:59 | |
| lbt | javispedro: indeed | 18:59 |
| lbt | that's the kind of thing | 18:59 |
| lbt | narrow it down for me | 18:59 |
| lbt | you can build w/o install... does that work | 18:59 |
| lbt | hack the makefile | 18:59 |
| djszapi | what ? :D | 18:59 |
| lbt | instrument it better | 19:00 |
| javispedro | that's what I'd normally do. | 19:00 |
| djszapi | then again, it is not black and white | 19:00 |
| javispedro | but I can understand that it is quite hard with a package that is larger than webkit. | 19:00 |
| djszapi | it is a very colourful issue, like the rainbow | 19:00 |
| djszapi | I cannot say it fails during the "install". | 19:00 |
| djszapi | I saw all sort of issues about it. | 19:00 |
| djszapi | I cannot really narrow it down to you, sorry. | 19:00 |
| djszapi | I should have access to the PC and debug it, that is. | 19:00 |
| djszapi | or someone with access should debug it. | 19:00 |
| javispedro | djszapi: thinking that you could spawn a script that does a ps ax every 5 seconds or so | 19:01 |
| javispedro | or every few minutes | 19:01 |
| javispedro | so that it would be run during the lock and you'll have some info | 19:01 |
| djszapi | javispedro: please do it if you have time. | 19:01 |
| lbt | javispedro: thanks... can you try and educate djszapi on debugging 101 :) | 19:01 |
| djszapi | I do not think it is two minutes, not even 2 days | 19:01 |
| javispedro | but this would mean OBS would not kill the job, so an OBS admin would have to kill it ;) | 19:01 |
| lbt | javispedro: you have abortbuild | 19:02 |
| djszapi | not sure what ps ax would help.... | 19:02 |
| javispedro | djszapi: it would be something at laest. | 19:02 |
| djszapi | lbt: no we do not have on the webinterface actually. | 19:02 |
| lbt | djszapi: aw | 19:02 |
| lbt | use osc then | 19:02 |
| djszapi | javispedro: yeah, sure I can do a lot of useless things :) | 19:02 |
| javispedro | djszapi: add a find $PWD command to see what's being copied, etc. | 19:02 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: again, is it possible to clone the harmattan part of COBS to an private OBS? | 19:02 |
| djszapi | javispedro: but I already did for one month, so .... | 19:02 |
| javispedro | djszapi: if you did not do this stuff what did you waste the month in? | 19:02 |
| djszapi | some fresh blood help needed. | 19:02 |
| javispedro | ;) | 19:02 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: is that the same issue? | 19:03 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: no, but I'm trying to work towards something here :) | 19:03 |
| djszapi | javispedro: go for it if you think it is not as time wasting debugging as hell ? | 19:03 |
| javispedro | yes, it is time wasting. | 19:03 |
| javispedro | there's no helping there. | 19:03 |
| djszapi | ...... | 19:03 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: the idea would be that then I can set that up (I need it myself anyway) and toss djszapi a copy so he can 'look inside' as he demands | 19:04 |
| djszapi | I do think it would be easier to have access to the PC | 19:04 |
| djszapi | and check the commands directly. | 19:04 |
| djszapi | would be way muuuuuuuuch faster | 19:04 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: see what IU mean? | 19:04 |
| javispedro | yes, but seems that is not available (why it is not available I won't understand, but hey ...) | 19:04 |
| djszapi | if the relevant person (whoever it is) can do it. | 19:04 |
| javispedro | either way. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | the -j1 thing must be tried | 19:05 |
| djszapi | that means 20 hours for one try. | 19:05 |
| djszapi | that is really no go debugging. | 19:05 |
| djszapi | having access and check the things is at least 4 times faster. | 19:05 |
| djszapi | which is 15 hours spare in this special case. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | it's just a day, cmon. | 19:06 |
| javispedro | I can think of 3 things that would cause a random failure, parallelization errors, qemu errors, and hw errors. | 19:06 |
| lbt | djszapi: go talk to the devs who build kde on suse OBS .. get one of them to show you | 19:06 |
| djszapi | yeah, but it is easier to do during night than dealing with it every day | 19:06 |
| djszapi | I would really like to do different things than getting into it every day | 19:06 |
| djszapi | since I need re-think a couple of things which is not 2 minutes, like doing it in one step | 19:07 |
| djszapi | lbt: they have no experience with Harmattan, I guess ? | 19:07 |
| javispedro | oh, that is a interesting, grab kdelibs from the Suse OBS (even if it is an RPM) and submit it to ours | 19:07 |
| djszapi | harmattan cannot handle rpmS .... | 19:07 |
| djszapi | it is a debian based system... | 19:07 |
| javispedro | submit it to meego | 19:07 |
| djszapi | and yes, we grabbed the proper debian packages, but again, it is not a packaging issue... | 19:08 |
| djszapi | meego != harmattan | 19:08 |
| javispedro | debian != harmattan | 19:08 |
| lbt | go and fill in the bug report with a clear analysis of the problem | 19:08 |
| djszapi | completely different environment, and strictly speaking, it is already there... | 19:08 |
| lbt | not "It does not however work" | 19:08 |
| lbt | no opinions | 19:08 |
| javispedro | djszapi: and kdelibs worked for the meego target? | 19:08 |
| djszapi | lbt: I cannot say more without access | 19:08 |
| lbt | bullshit | 19:08 |
| djszapi | javispedro: well, there are packages available. | 19:08 |
| djszapi | but I heard it was also very painful over there. | 19:09 |
| javispedro | so it's not a hw problem. | 19:09 |
| javispedro | (aka, not a memory problem, not a disk space problem...) | 19:09 |
| djszapi | not true | 19:09 |
| djszapi | it is a completely different environment, you cannot filter out that easily. | 19:09 |
| javispedro | it is not that different. | 19:09 |
| djszapi | again, it would be much easier with monitoring directly... | 19:09 |
| javispedro | both use qemu. both run on a xen vm. | 19:10 |
| javispedro | but use the linux kernel and probably the same version of the linux kernel :) | 19:10 |
| djszapi | see ? These are really time wasting ideas that volunteers do not normally have. | 19:10 |
| djszapi | it is even a lot of time in paid job. | 19:10 |
| djszapi | and no, it should not work that hard, seriously :) | 19:10 |
| javispedro | it's fun | 19:11 |
| javispedro | I find myself usually in the opposing side. | 19:11 |
| djszapi | go have a fun then ? :) | 19:11 |
| javispedro | djszapi: so now you understand why I dislike Aegis? it's a time waste for me. | 19:11 |
| javispedro | when I have to change the Debian packaging of portmap because aegis won't let me run it as is, well, it is a time waste. | 19:12 |
| javispedro | I'm a volunteer after all. | 19:12 |
| djszapi | aegis is a cakewalk | 19:13 |
| * mikhas gets popcorn | 19:13 | |
| djszapi | but do not hijack it :) | 19:13 |
| djszapi | javispedro: I will give a try with -j1 after figuring out the debian things, BUT, I will be your guest for a beer, if it does not work :) | 19:13 |
| djszapi | or maybe 2 :p | 19:13 |
| javispedro | hah | 19:15 |
| djszapi | javispedro: rpc timeout is also a very common situation, say 70-80 % | 19:16 |
| djszapi | sometimes for days without being able to do anything. | 19:16 |
| djszapi | How should I debug that one ? :) | 19:16 |
| javispedro | hopefully that improved since the recent downtime | 19:16 |
| Arkenoi | Is there a package that includes luit? As running arbitrary binaries is tricky i'd better have a package. A package with kernel module disabling aegis will fit as well :-) | 19:16 |
| djszapi | you cannot load kernel modules without open mode and if you have open mode, you do not have issue with aegis... | 19:17 |
| djszapi | so the second idea makes no sense :) | 19:17 |
| djszapi | javispedro: it happened after that maintenance, actually. | 19:17 |
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| javispedro | :( | 19:17 |
| djszapi | dpkg-buildpackage -j1 -> this will not work :) | 19:18 |
| djszapi | I cannot really modify that, just from the rules / dh_install file I guess. | 19:18 |
| javispedro | what does the rules file look like? | 19:18 |
| javispedro | you have several options, namely export MAKEFLAGS=-j1 , AND/OR add -j1 to $(MAKE) cmdlines, AND/OR override DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS | 19:19 |
| kulve | I'm trying to create a sharing plugin but I don't know how to customize the account setup. Now it just asks for a username and a password and I don't need either.. Any hints where to look? | 19:19 |
| javispedro | also add .NOTPARALLEL: to debian/rules as last target in file | 19:19 |
| djszapi | http://paste.xinu.at/rsGC/ | 19:20 |
| javispedro | ah, debhelper .. | 19:21 |
| djszapi | it is not cdbs, that would go crazy.... | 19:21 |
| djszapi | cdbs + sb -> oooouch :) | 19:21 |
| javispedro | seemingly you need to add | 19:22 |
| javispedro | override_dh_auto_build: | 19:22 |
| javispedro | dh_auto_build --max-parallel=1 | 19:22 |
| javispedro | (note: indent with tabs) | 19:23 |
| djszapi | before install and after the configure | 19:23 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, there is no easy way to switch to open mode, right? | 19:23 |
| javispedro | yep | 19:23 |
| djszapi | and before the auto test I guess | 19:23 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: there is | 19:23 |
| djszapi | one line | 19:23 |
| Arkenoi | which? | 19:24 |
| djszapi | read back | 19:24 |
| javispedro | that is lizardo's trick basically :) | 19:24 |
| djszapi | javispedro: Could you review please ? http://paste.xinu.at/Ktg/ | 19:24 |
| javispedro | djszapi: also add the .NOTPARALLEL: target just below that one | 19:24 |
| djszapi | looks like pkg-kde-tools auto-enables parallel builds | 19:24 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, cannot find it, if it is really one line, could you please repeat it? | 19:25 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: same backlog thing for me | 19:25 |
| djszapi | after: "valinfo.kmod_init = (val & KMOD_BIT) ? 1 : 0;" -> memset(&valinfo, 0, sizeof(valinfo)); | 19:25 |
| djszapi | javispedro: it might be almighty because of pkg-kde-tools :) | 19:25 |
| djszapi | and the thing is that I do not find anything to turn that off | 19:26 |
| javispedro | you could ask the author about it | 19:27 |
| javispedro | either way, I think the NOTPARALLEL thing might be more interesting | 19:27 |
| djszapi | why ? | 19:27 |
| djszapi | you already tried to set the paralel to 1 | 19:27 |
| javispedro | NOTPARALLEL disables parallelism inside debhelper itself and the debian/rules file | 19:28 |
| javispedro | this fixed Gtk+ OBS builds | 19:28 |
| djszapi | this one ? http://paste.xinu.at/PlIF/ | 19:28 |
| javispedro | yes, exactly | 19:28 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, is there a way to do it on running kernel, without installing my own? | 19:29 |
| javispedro | Arkenoi: you have to do my trick | 19:29 |
| Arkenoi | that's what i was asking for -- is it already packaged with .deb :-) | 19:29 |
| javispedro | no, it's not | 19:30 |
| javispedro | any different kernel version will break it | 19:30 |
| javispedro | and potentially crash such kernel =) | 19:30 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: no way, from userspace, no. | 19:31 |
| Arkenoi | which kernel is in the version that is distributed with OCF? | 19:31 |
| javispedro | Arkenoi: the correct one :) | 19:31 |
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| djszapi | javispedro: should I change any settings on my obs repository ? | 19:31 |
| javispedro | djszapi: do not think so. | 19:31 |
| Arkenoi | javispedro, could you please uname -r, | 19:32 |
| Arkenoi | ? | 19:32 |
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| javispedro | 2.6.32.39-dfl61-20112201 | 19:32 |
| hiemanshu_N950 | ssl works now \o/ | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | we have a new build? | 19:33 |
| javispedro | no, I don't know why he's asking ;) | 19:33 |
| Arkenoi | hmm, mine is 20112901 | 19:33 |
| javispedro | oh. | 19:33 |
| djszapi | javispedro: osc is fragile :0 | 19:33 |
| javispedro | djszapi: yes, I did not like it. | 19:33 |
| javispedro | but I also dislike the web interface so :) | 19:34 |
| djszapi | uploaded....see you in 20 hours about it. | 19:34 |
| javispedro | hah! | 19:34 |
| * javispedro goes see if he has any money left in wallet for beers | 19:34 | |
| Arkenoi | and aegis does not allow running arbitrary binaries when told to via devel-sh as advised | 19:34 |
| javispedro | Arkenoi: where did you get this kernel from? is yours a meego.com device program? | 19:35 |
| djszapi | running binaries without packages do not make too much sense on Harmattan. That would pretty much mean, there is no aegis defense as it was designed. | 19:35 |
| djszapi | javispedro: anyway, thanks, I am very pessimistic about it, so I think it does not help, but I have no idea about what else I should try out. | 19:36 |
| alterego | 700 quid for a 64G N9 | 19:37 |
| alterego | I blame elop | 19:37 |
| javispedro | djszapi: let's see :) | 19:37 |
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| alterego | How can they justify another 200 quid for 48G of storage .. | 19:38 |
| javispedro | hey, Apple does it. | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: not very cheap storage i think | 19:38 |
| alterego | Hrm :/ | 19:39 |
| alterego | Don't think I can justify buying an N9 at all anymore. | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | i'd buy an n9 if the reception is better | 19:40 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:40 |
| alterego | I think it will be better than the N950, if that's your benchmark . | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | it's not satisfying my daily-usage criteria so | 19:42 |
| alterego | Yeah, it doesn't work particularly well for me .. | 19:42 |
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| Stskeeps | i felt a little like 'death grip' .. | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:43 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: btw, you think there's a chance to get the source of the harmattan xserver-xorg-video-fbdev? heard anything about it? | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: it's quite close to what we have in meego, i think | 19:45 |
| djszapi | javispedro: bingo: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan | 19:45 |
| javispedro | similar but there has been a cleanup (according to debian/changelog) and seemingly introduces a crash | 19:45 |
| djszapi | it is sighy-ish :) | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | i'm really not involved with harmattan, so :) | 19:46 |
| javispedro | so the binaries and the source not really match any longer :) | 19:46 |
| djszapi | sorry ? | 19:46 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: I understand, I only hoped it could have a change if Meego was to get the new version soon :) | 19:46 |
| javispedro | *chance | 19:47 |
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| javispedro | djszapi: that was for Stskeeps, sorry. | 19:47 |
| alterego | meego is getting wayland :P | 19:47 |
| alterego | bbiab | 19:47 |
| javispedro | djszapi: about OBS, I cannot fetch the logs seemingly =) | 19:47 |
| javispedro | djszapi: probably the build did not even start yet :P | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i'd say 'possibly', but let's see.. the problem with the newer fbdev-sgx from meego pov is that it needs some patches to xorg we can't do.. | 19:47 |
| djszapi | javispedro: sorry ? | 19:48 |
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| javispedro | djszapi: it says "Status: Updating" and no log | 19:48 |
| djszapi | rpc timeout, yes. | 19:49 |
| djszapi | as said 80% of the time | 19:49 |
| javispedro | give it more time | 19:49 |
| djszapi | or even a bit more. This is something I cannot do anything with .... | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: and in 1.3 we're more likely to go to wayland.. | 19:49 |
| djszapi | more time :D :D :D | 19:49 |
| djszapi | javispedro: well, just fyi if you see it first, it is a mic2 rpc issue | 19:49 |
| djszapi | you cannot do anything else than abort and re-build. | 19:50 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: ah well, so either Nokia gives it or nothing I guess. | 19:50 |
| javispedro | well, it's not that important. | 19:50 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: we might have it for the Meego-on-n950 stuff, let's see, just landed after a holiday in sweden so :) | 19:51 |
| javispedro | hehe :) | 19:52 |
| djszapi | javispedro: so thing is that it might work in few days, maybe not, no guarantee. Work as in it starts doing anything | 19:53 |
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| javispedro | djszapi: yeah... no idea why it happens... I remember it has happened to me but after an hour or two it usually started moving | 19:54 |
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| djszapi | I have not seen bigger pain than c-obs yet around Harmattan :d | 19:55 |
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| djszapi | javispedro: and we are back to the original idea, direct distribution would solve all thsi crap. | 19:57 |
| djszapi | this* | 19:58 |
| djszapi | I always get back to this idea after a lot of wasting hours, days, weeks. | 19:58 |
| javispedro | hey, we have been years with the maemo.org autobuilder :) | 19:58 |
| djszapi | there are not enough people behind c-obs, it cannot work this way in theory. | 20:00 |
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| djszapi | I am about to get rid of c-obs and publish things on my webservice. That could actually work with some simple own script. | 20:01 |
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| lbt | If there are any sane KDE devs around could they help djszapi with a basic bug report. He's having problems : https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22650 | 20:07 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 22650 cri, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEED, Direct distribution opportunity while c-obs cannot simply work | 20:07 |
| lbt | djszapi: you really need to get your act together. | 20:08 |
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| javispedro | lbt: I do wonder what's the current status though: | 20:09 |
| javispedro | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan | 20:09 |
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| lbt | djszapi: Please go and learn how to prepare a proper bug report before asking me for any more help. I've spent a long time pointing you in the right direction - the least you could do is show me a small amount of respect and put *some* effort in. Thanks | 20:09 |
| lbt | javispedro: yep - I have no doubt there is a problem | 20:10 |
| lbt | but I don't have time to do the diagnostics myself | 20:10 |
| lbt | I need the developer to isolate the section of the log, determine repeatability. that kind of thing | 20:11 |
| * GAN900 dies from irony | 20:11 | |
| javispedro | lbt: but that does not seem like a KDE problem | 20:11 |
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| lbt | javispedro: no... it's not | 20:11 |
| javispedro | lbt: sorry, I meant to say, that does not seem something we could fix by editing the package | 20:11 |
| javispedro | I mean the current problem | 20:11 |
| javispedro | it seems to be hung without a log | 20:11 |
| lbt | javispedro: no, agreed | 20:11 |
| lbt | javispedro: so... what happens if you exit the build prior to that point? | 20:12 |
| javispedro | according to djszapi the only way to get it unstuck is to abort and retry repeteadl | 20:13 |
| javispedro | y | 20:13 |
| javispedro | this "Status: Updating..." thing has happened to me in the past, usually fixed by itself in a few hours | 20:13 |
| lbt | so it now sticks without building anything... | 20:13 |
| lbt | OK .. so this is a different bug repott | 20:13 |
| lbt | FFS | 20:13 |
| javispedro | (when the package builds in like 6 minutes) | 20:13 |
| javispedro | lbt: yes, sorry. | 20:13 |
| djszapi | lbt: seriously, I have no idea what you are talking about. I cannot get more information than this with my brain. If you think it is not enough tell me what to do to help you... | 20:13 |
| lbt | if the bloody report had actually said that | 20:13 |
| javispedro | :) | 20:14 |
| djszapi | lbt: the report said more times ? | 20:14 |
| djszapi | you did not actually even read the first line of the first post. That bugs me a lot. | 20:14 |
| javispedro | forget about the bug report, we'll fix that later | 20:14 |
| djszapi | anyway, answering there in a "former" way. | 20:14 |
| javispedro | for now, enumerate the problems | 20:14 |
| lbt | djszapi: your report sucks | 20:14 |
| lbt | totally | 20:14 |
| lbt | it's useless | 20:15 |
| djszapi | thanks kindly. | 20:15 |
| lbt | "We have been trying to build kdelibs for more than 1 month" | 20:15 |
| lbt | no... I'm serious | 20:15 |
| lbt | go follow that link and learn something | 20:15 |
| djszapi | lbt: do not be tiresome please. | 20:15 |
| lbt | djszapi: you're pushing it... | 20:16 |
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| djszapi | lbt: so many times I mentioned all the issues here, you never really helped, have not even tried. I do not have the sake to spend right now to collect the logs, but all the issues were reported to you here. | 20:17 |
| djszapi | Also, I might be silly, but I have no more ideas what to try out about an rpc timeout and apparently nobody had here.... | 20:17 |
| * javispedro crashes Xorg again, dammit. | 20:18 | |
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| lbt | so if your bug report had said "Once the build is scheduled it enters 'building' state and no log output is produced" ... *that* would be a clear bug report | 20:18 |
| javispedro | lbt: sadly I do not know why it happens and we'd have to use the deadly word "sometimes" in that bug report =) | 20:19 |
| RzR950 | djszapi, i see your still active on that | 20:19 |
| lbt | javispedro: but I was expecting some "out of memory" or parallel build issue from all the chat | 20:19 |
| lbt | not "it doesn't start" | 20:20 |
| lcuk | lbt, djszapi - there must be a way to cure this and communication is important. we are all professionals here. | 20:20 |
| lbt | mutter | 20:20 |
| lbt | lcuk: read the bug report and tell me I haven't tried | 20:20 |
| lcuk | i know lbt | 20:20 |
| lcuk | djszapi, i understand kdelibs is a big build | 20:21 |
| lcuk | where on the obs is it (link please) | 20:21 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi | 20:21 |
| lbt | lcuk: good point .. that link isn't in the bug report | 20:21 |
| lcuk | thanks javispedro | 20:21 |
| lcuk | djszapi, the link says it is currently building | 20:22 |
| javispedro | sadly, downtime for now probably due to the extra load :) | 20:22 |
| lcuk | how long on average before you get a failure? | 20:22 |
| javispedro | lcuk: look at the logs, they are not there. my magic 8-ball says the build did not start yet. | 20:22 |
| lcuk | that was why I asked on average | 20:22 |
| lcuk | for my small builds I can usually find errors in a matter of minutes | 20:23 |
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| lcuk | is it usual for kdelibs tweaks to take hours per iteration? | 20:23 |
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| djszapi | lcuk: how should I know ? | 20:23 |
| lcuk | djszapi, well you are the caretaker of it | 20:23 |
| djszapi | caretaker != have any idea. | 20:23 |
| lcuk | how long do you twiddle your thumbs after setting a build going | 20:23 |
| lcuk | you start a build running | 20:23 |
| lcuk | like baking a cake | 20:23 |
| djszapi | my idea is to get rid of c-obs. That is the only simple way. | 20:23 |
| javispedro | lcuk: the problem is that we do not know what is it doing at the moment | 20:23 |
| lcuk | how long is it in the oven for | 20:23 |
| djszapi | lcuk: come on, be serious. | 20:24 |
| javispedro | lcuk: otherwise a build should be expected to take ~5hours. since this one is not parallelized for debug reasons, ~20 hours | 20:24 |
| lcuk | djszapi, I am very serious | 20:24 |
| lcuk | compilation of projects is analogous to baking | 20:24 |
| lcuk | you want a nicely baked build at the end of it | 20:24 |
| lcuk | and usually you know how long it takes in the oven.. | 20:25 |
| djszapi | lcuk: try to understand, I have zero clue at this stage, even it is said "it is not a proper bug report", still no clue, you can repeat it, still not clue | 20:25 |
| djszapi | see ? | 20:25 |
| lcuk | djszapi, not really - does obs simply not build the packages ? | 20:26 |
| djszapi | can you see there anything ? Have you actually checked the link out what more people pasted ? | 20:26 |
| djszapi | lcuk: you were here so many times when I pasted these issues, completely different stages when it died. | 20:27 |
| lcuk | i know | 20:27 |
| djszapi | so what communication issue ? | 20:27 |
| lcuk | has the obs managed to give you binaries out the other end? | 20:27 |
| javispedro | many bugs in a single report issue ;) | 20:27 |
| djszapi | I do not really know what is going on. You can say that I am silly, I take it, I am. | 20:27 |
| djszapi | but I have no clue. | 20:27 |
| lcuk | no djszapi you are not silly - this is linux we try and help each other | 20:28 |
| lcuk | and I know obs has been a bit of a mare, but you are using it - has it given you any binaries out of the other end at all? | 20:28 |
| lbt | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=home%3Adjszapi | 20:29 |
| lcuk | or has the struggling with each step been why you got to file bug 22650 today | 20:29 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22650 cri, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEED, Direct distribution opportunity while c-obs cannot simply work | 20:29 |
| djszapi | lcuk: would I be here if I have working binary kdelibs packages ? :) | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | wow djszapi :D | 20:30 |
| djszapi | Would I have been mentioning for 1 month, if it had produced output binaries ? :) | 20:30 |
| lcuk | you have loads of builds in your project | 20:30 |
| * lcuk has only 2 | 20:30 | |
| lcuk | and one of those fails | 20:30 |
| rzr | MohammadAG: I built cli-f-s it's in repo now, thx | 20:30 |
| lcuk | djszapi, so you kindof know how obs works - you have used it to build a whole load of (what I assume) are dependencies? | 20:30 |
| djszapi | lcuk: c-obs is dead :D | 20:31 |
| lcuk | tis just resting. | 20:31 |
| lcuk | norwegen blue servers | 20:31 |
| lcuk | lbt, thanks for that link | 20:32 |
| lcuk | djszapi, you have put more projects through obs than I have seen others | 20:32 |
| lcuk | yes your kdelibs is not yet building | 20:32 |
| lcuk | but bloody nora you have a greate cache | 20:32 |
| djszapi | it is so pointless if my final purpose (kdelibs) does not work | 20:32 |
| djszapi | so many wasted efforts. | 20:32 |
| lcuk | djszapi, not really | 20:33 |
| javispedro | lcuk: that's why I empathize -- kdelibs is probably one of the largest packages that will pass through the autobuilder. | 20:33 |
| djszapi | javispedro: you are actually wrong ;) | 20:33 |
| javispedro | it's larger than webkit after all. remember the problems webkit had in the original maemo.org autobuilder | 20:33 |
| lcuk | and probably one of the most awesome | 20:33 |
| lcuk | it has to say | 20:33 |
| djszapi | you have not seen workspace and runtime yet ;) | 20:33 |
| djszapi | that is about more times to build than kdelibs. | 20:33 |
| javispedro | djszapi: I'd be surprised | 20:33 |
| lcuk | djszapi, well by the time you get to those, you will be an expert ;) | 20:33 |
| lcuk | now, can you ping me when kdelibs build restarts | 20:34 |
| djszapi | no, I do not care about c-obs | 20:34 |
| lcuk | and i will try best to help follow it | 20:34 |
| lcuk | thanks | 20:34 |
| djszapi | I will write some script tonight, and get rid of this crap | 20:34 |
| javispedro | so, do we think that the best approach for the current situation is to kill the build and restart? | 20:34 |
| * javispedro would have suggested to wait | 20:34 | |
| lbt | javispedro: there is no build | 20:34 |
| djszapi | javispedro: wait for what ? | 20:35 |
| djszapi | :) | 20:35 |
| lcuk | can I ask a question | 20:35 |
| djszapi | javispedro: wait more hours for the known timeout ? :))) | 20:35 |
| lcuk | what does kdelibs actually do? | 20:35 |
| * lcuk ducks | 20:35 | |
| lbt | javispedro: this is an OBS bug ... but it was so badly reported that I thought it was a kde build bug | 20:35 |
| djszapi | lcuk: it is the base libraries for the whole kde project. | 20:35 |
| lcuk | djszapi, right | 20:35 |
| djszapi | apart from the pure Qt support libraries. It has plasma, kdecore, kdeui, webkit and others. | 20:35 |
| lcuk | nice | 20:35 |
| javispedro | lbt: happened to me, but it eventually starts (~2hours or so) | 20:36 |
| javispedro | so no idea | 20:36 |
| lbt | javispedro: hmmm it could be pulling stuff from maemo.org w/o a cache? | 20:36 |
| djszapi | lbt: you keep blaming me, but what should I report to you ? Could you tell that ? | 20:36 |
| javispedro | lbt: that would explain why it takes longer for packages having many more deps like djszapi's | 20:36 |
| javispedro | lbt: so I like it | 20:36 |
| djszapi | It is not I am not reporting more because I am laizy, I do not know what to report. | 20:36 |
| lbt | djszapi: "Once the build is scheduled it enters 'building' state and no log output is produced" ... *that* would be a clear bug report | 20:37 |
| lbt | do you see | 20:37 |
| lbt | clear. To the point | 20:37 |
| djszapi | javispedro: yes, debian has at least 5-6 packagers for just kde. | 20:37 |
| lbt | not rainbows | 20:37 |
| lbt | not "missed opportunities" | 20:37 |
| djszapi | lbt: but I wrote it ? | 20:37 |
| djszapi | I even sent a link ? | 20:37 |
| djszapi | or well, actually my 10 fingers are not enough how many times I told it to you here and sent a link. | 20:38 |
| lbt | djszapi: do you know how much crap I deal with every day? | 20:38 |
| djszapi | I guess the same as with me. | 20:38 |
| lbt | Why the hell would I bother remembering your problems too then? | 20:38 |
| lbt | that is what bug reports/backlogs are for | 20:38 |
| djszapi | lbt: you do not remember one time ok, not remember 2-5 times, but 20-30 times ? :) | 20:39 |
| lbt | so if you point me at a nice clear bug report... it helps me get back to the context.... recall the problem and work on it | 20:39 |
| lbt | yeah ... but sadly for you eventually I hear "buzzzzzzzz" | 20:39 |
| djszapi | I poked you every second day about kdelibs in the last 1 month. | 20:39 |
| dm8tbr | community is when all sides work proactively together | 20:39 |
| lbt | and because there is no rigourous report... I can't do much when I get time | 20:39 |
| lbt | it doesn't hit my 'bug list' | 20:39 |
| lbt | so.... nothing gets done | 20:40 |
| djszapi | you now have a bunch of things in that thread, you can think and swallow them. | 20:40 |
| djszapi | I would say the first step is to fix the rpc t imeout thing. | 20:41 |
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| lbt | nope... closing it. If you want you can raise a clean report. If it is decent I'll look at it. I'm currently working on it anyhow. | 20:41 |
| djszapi | would be way muuuuuuch easier to debug the /real/ issue | 20:41 |
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| djszapi | I will write the same things in a new report as well anyway | 20:41 |
| djszapi | but yeah, we can duplicate bugs, if you want to. | 20:42 |
| lbt | Feel free. | 20:42 |
| djszapi | javispedro: anyway, I am off to home, thank you for your help. | 20:44 |
| djszapi | I hope I can manage my script tonight and get rid of this crap :) | 20:44 |
| djszapi | cya | 20:44 |
| javispedro | cya | 20:44 |
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| lbt | rm_work: thanks :) | 20:44 |
| rm_work | yeah >_< | 20:45 |
| lbt | javispedro: so eventually you get an rpc timeout... | 20:46 |
| javispedro | not me, that's him | 20:46 |
| javispedro | my builds eventually go through | 20:46 |
| lbt | yeah... kdelibs | 20:46 |
| lbt | but take a *long* time to start? | 20:46 |
| javispedro | yep | 20:46 |
| javispedro | next time I'll reproduce I'll grab the stopwatch :) | 20:46 |
| lbt | X-fade mentioned something ... we think there's a version mis-match issue. It seems to pull the entire harmattan dev env down for every build | 20:47 |
| javispedro | it's not _always_ though. Maybe, following your theory of downloading packages, there's a cache per pubworker? | 20:47 |
| lbt | there should be | 20:47 |
| lbt | too much crap on apps recently .... both my last weekends had zero H time | 20:48 |
| lbt | I have not built *one* harmattan package :( | 20:48 |
| javispedro | :( | 20:48 |
| * javispedro now fears filling that feature request about the x86 harmattan target ;) | 20:48 | |
| javispedro | (but I do think having the x86 target would help discard qemu issues during builds) | 20:48 |
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| lbt | yep | 20:50 |
| lbt | that's a very sane request | 20:50 |
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| GAN900 | Has anybody encountered any more Components hurdles they'd like better documented in an Improved Qt Components Widget Gallery application? | 21:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | we should have a header bar component in there | 21:11 |
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| fiferboy | (I hope) missing components isn't what GAN means, but undocumented component features | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Indeed | 21:23 |
| * RST38h moos | 21:23 | |
| RST38h | GAN: I stopped counting my hurdles after some point | 21:24 |
| javispedro | Google is worse every day | 21:25 |
| javispedro | I just googled for "tabco" wanting to know what the fuss is about and the first result was about "tobacco" | 21:25 |
| hiemanshu | lol | 21:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | Tomacco. ;) | 21:26 |
| rzr | tomma: ping | 21:27 |
| RST38h | javispedro: yes, they are starting to make assumptions about your intentions | 21:27 |
| RST38h | javispedro: never a good idea for people whose intentions differ from the crowd | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | argh - teeny scratch on the camera window - thankfully not over the camera. | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Some slip-on cover would be awesome. | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: got your "coffin"? | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | huh? | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | 950 | 21:34 |
| tomma | rzr, pong | 21:36 |
| rzr | tomma: fire! | 21:38 |
| rzr | tomma: i failed to build your package | 21:38 |
| rzr | tomma: I am trying again now | 21:38 |
| tomma | https://projects.developer.nokia.com/cuteexplorer | 21:39 |
| tomma | uploaded compiled package there too | 21:39 |
| rzr | what are the benefit over gitorious ? | 21:40 |
| javispedro | I see a bugtracker for a start | 21:41 |
| tomma | bugtracker and posibility to release something there | 21:41 |
| javispedro | seemingly projects.dev.n.c is a pretty standard Trac setup | 21:41 |
| rzr | garage is based on gforge no ? | 21:42 |
| javispedro | so it competes with garage.maemo.org, not gitorious | 21:42 |
| javispedro | yeah | 21:42 |
| rzr | k | 21:42 |
| rzr | i would not depends on a single corporation w/ all my respect to nokia | 21:43 |
| rzr | but its not that important | 21:43 |
| javispedro | well if they're just hosting | 21:43 |
| javispedro | at this point the garage.maemo.org future is more dubious | 21:43 |
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| tomma | rzr, yeah problem is that it is building it with dpkg-buildpackage... | 21:45 |
| tomma | default creator debian_harmattan/rules does not have configure and build stuff | 21:46 |
| tomma | they need to be uncommented | 21:46 |
| rzr | that's what i thought , will u fix it , or should i try ? | 21:47 |
| tomma | there are those two lines which say "uncomment this to build wihtout qt-creator" | 21:48 |
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| rzr | k | 21:49 |
| kimju | lbt, does obs do any checks to the contents of generated .deb before publishing it? | 21:51 |
| rzr | dont think so | 21:53 |
| kimju | I tried to find out why the building of the terminal package hangs. the original rules file adds _gpgsig into the deb along with the _aegis. if I disable that, the package gets published. | 21:56 |
| javispedro | kimju: did you find where it hung on the logs? | 21:56 |
| kimju | javispedro, nope, the final output of the build log is the same in ok and failing cases. | 21:57 |
| kimju | also it seems that aegis-deb-util regenerates the control.tar.gz inside the .deb, while aegis-deb-add just adds the _aegis file. I'm now retrying with -util, without the _gpgsig part. | 21:58 |
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| lbt | kimju: no, just publishes it | 22:04 |
| kimju | then I really wonder why this happens.. :o | 22:05 |
| djszapi | javispedro: still stuck at the same step after 1-2 hours :) | 22:05 |
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| javispedro | dunno if to leave for a day or abort it already :P | 22:12 |
| djszapi | I cannot actually abort it, on the webinterface at least. | 22:13 |
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| kimju | and it hangs again. so, running aegis-deb-util, that replaces control.tar.gz and adds _aegis hangs. running aegis-deb-add that just adds the _aegis works. running that and a python script (that in turn runs ar) that adds _gpgsig hangs again. | 22:20 |
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| * lbt looked at djszapi's problem... turns out the code is badly packed and the project has debugbuild enabled. OBS worked first time when I made a simple test project, copied in the package and built against djszapi's home. | 22:48 | |
| lbt | "dpkg-source: error: File /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/kde4libs_4.6.95-0.debian.tar.gz has size 319988 instead of expected 312932" | 22:48 |
| lbt | so djszapi .. try disabling debugbuild in your home... | 22:49 |
| djszapi | that is not really the problem. | 22:50 |
| lcuk | djszapi, one step at a time! | 22:50 |
| antman8969 | so anyone else see the tabco campaign today? (fusion garage) | 22:50 |
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| djszapi | what you might actually need to check out is the "original" case, before trying to upload the package with the "-j1" option. | 22:50 |
| lbt | The code package isn't relevant at this point. That appears clearly in the logs. | 22:51 |
| lbt | the issue is getting the build to start | 22:51 |
| djszapi | not really sure what you mean | 22:51 |
| djszapi | the "original" link we showed you is about a build crap. | 22:51 |
| lbt | so djszapi .. try disabling debugbuild in your home... | 22:52 |
| lcuk | I am brewing the kettle, who wants one | 22:53 |
| lbt | :) | 22:53 |
| lbt | just had a mini-FAB :) | 22:53 |
| antman8969 | lbt, did anyone ever look into the missing MDeclarativeCache header on the harmattan target in obs? Is there a bug report I can file somewhere? | 22:53 |
| Venemo | djszapi, do you have 5 minutes for me now? :) | 22:53 |
| djszapi | nope, about to sleep | 22:53 |
| djszapi | I would just like to disable the debugbuild whatever it is for... | 22:53 |
| Venemo | djszapi, could you ping me tomorrow then? | 22:53 |
| djszapi | lbt: it is for ... ? | 22:53 |
| rcg | antman8969: actually i compiled an application that uses MDeclarativeCache | 22:54 |
| lbt | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Adjszapi | 22:54 |
| rcg | or what do you mean? | 22:54 |
| lbt | bottom left select the all/all square and pick 'disable' | 22:54 |
| djszapi | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan | 22:54 |
| djszapi | it has already been disabled in the shared community repository anyway | 22:55 |
| djszapi | and it did not work there either | 22:55 |
| djszapi | so not culsprit... | 22:55 |
| antman8969 | rcg, if you got it to compile and you #include <MDeclarativeCache>, thats what I was hoping would happen | 22:55 |
| * lbt walks away | 22:55 | |
| antman8969 | rcg I was trying to compile a few weeks ago and it wasn't found | 22:55 |
| rcg | i used #include <applauncherd/MDeclarativeCache> | 22:56 |
| antman8969 | interesting, thanks. I'll try it out this afternoon | 22:56 |
| djszapi | lcuk: sorry, but what did you mean by this "djszapi, one step at a time!" ? | 22:57 |
| rcg | antman8969: and i put applauncherd-dev in Build-Depends: in the debian/control file | 22:57 |
| lcuk | djszapi, well lbt spent time investigating your problem and asked for you to try something | 22:57 |
| antman8969 | rcg: right | 22:57 |
| djszapi | lcuk: it has already been tried out as I pointed out | 22:58 |
| lcuk | whilst it may not be the problem, he was trying to dig through and make a clean build | 22:58 |
| djszapi | next "step", please :) | 22:58 |
| djszapi | lcuk: my report has also been closed as invalid. | 23:02 |
| lcuk | djszapi, the build log https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Albt%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan | 23:03 |
| lcuk | has the problem lbt said | 23:04 |
| djszapi | lcuk: sorry, I do not care about c-obs. | 23:04 |
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| rzr | djszapi: u said that months ago already :) | 23:05 |
| djszapi | rzr: I did not care too much about it recently, yep :) | 23:06 |
| djszapi | let us continue it :) | 23:06 |
| rzr | anyway the pb is kdelibs is that orig != dsc | 23:06 |
| rzr | in h:r:h | 23:06 |
| djszapi | sorry ? | 23:06 |
| djszapi | Could you please form round sentences ? | 23:07 |
| rzr | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard | 23:08 |
| rzr | dpkg-source: error: File /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/kde4libs_4.6.95-0.debian.tar.gz has size 319988 instead of expected 312932 | 23:08 |
| djszapi | mmm, seems you have no idea what is going on, so: | 23:08 |
| djszapi | I tried to upload a debian file today with -j1 and I forget to re-generate the sums. It is really not the problem and it happened few hours ago. It is now corrected, but then again, it is a few hours fresh issue, and not really the original issue which has been happening for one month! | 23:09 |
| djszapi | forgot* | 23:09 |
| lbt | rzr: are you having any OBS problems building kdelibs other than the "size 319988 instead of expected 312932" which (as I'm sure you know) is a simple packaging error | 23:10 |
| rzr | yes | 23:10 |
| lbt | ok.... are you OK doing the sane bug report approach and analysing it? | 23:11 |
| rzr | i know, as i did not upload that one I reported the error to djszapi | 23:11 |
| djszapi | please do not report this since it makes no sense | 23:11 |
| djszapi | we are discussing this issue, but the real issue... | 23:11 |
| rzr | ok | 23:11 |
| djszapi | * not discussing | 23:11 |
| * lbt notes the value of having maintainers whose packaging you can rely on for a community repo... :) | 23:11 | |
| rzr | talking about that , any news on a official community repo ? | 23:12 |
| lbt | well, Surrounds:Testing is there. | 23:13 |
| djszapi | nothing for ages | 23:13 |
| djszapi | it never really worked. | 23:13 |
| rzr | who take cares of it ? | 23:13 |
| djszapi | nobody :D | 23:13 |
| lbt | I'm asking people in the community to propose some simple policy to decide that. | 23:13 |
| djszapi | yeah, for more than 7-8 months with so much care... | 23:13 |
| lbt | My gut feel is we identify crucial missing pkgs | 23:13 |
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| rzr | ok i am not hurry if it's better than what we're doing :) | 23:14 |
| lbt | like cdbs type thing... | 23:14 |
| djszapi | cdbs is a history. | 23:14 |
| rzr | not it's not | 23:14 |
| lcuk | djszapi, you have pushed many packages into obs already | 23:14 |
| lcuk | are they available for others to make use of? | 23:14 |
| lbt | and get those somehow 'sponsored' by some of the strong DD types ... basically if a package has a DD 'in the background' then I think that's sane | 23:14 |
| djszapi | rzr: yes, it is. debian mentors do not really advise it, ask them. | 23:14 |
| djszapi | lcuk: look, c-obs is dead :D | 23:15 |
| lbt | we shouldn't re-invent the wheel | 23:15 |
| djszapi | lcuk: I am afraid my vote is for maemo.org back | 23:15 |
| djszapi | like so many people proposed it previously here, already. | 23:15 |
| Venemo | why don't we just create a harmattan-extras on repository.maemo.org | 23:16 |
| djszapi | we could do that, yes. It cannot be much worse than c-obs. | 23:16 |
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| lbt | Venemo: do you know what a substitution cipher is? | 23:17 |
| djszapi | from what I see here, a lot of negative feedbacks about c-obs. | 23:17 |
| lcuk | djszapi, do you smile about anything? :P | 23:17 |
| Venemo | lbt, I have no idea. | 23:18 |
| mikhas | lcuk, end of month. the paycheck. | 23:18 |
| rzr | djszapi: i dont agrea | 23:18 |
| lbt | it's what turns "harmattan-extras on repository.maemo.org" into "Surrounds on pub,meego.com" .... same meaning... different letters | 23:18 |
| djszapi | lcuk: sorry ? | 23:19 |
| mikhas | djszapi, compared to OVI store, which doesnt even list a N9/N950 yet … | 23:19 |
| rzr | obs is far for perfect, but i am kinda fan of having a such tool like ubuntu build service those are brillant | 23:19 |
| mikhas | if we want to distribute software, then c-obs is the only real alternative right now, no?? | 23:20 |
| djszapi | rzr: which does not work ? | 23:20 |
| djszapi | mikhas: no | 23:20 |
| djszapi | actually it is not an alternative to distribute kdelibs, or what are you watching ? | 23:20 |
| lbt | rzr: I'd like it if you could identify the most fundamental packages in your area and make a list of them ... just 5-10 | 23:20 |
| mikhas | ok, I didnt follow the discussion around kdelibs | 23:20 |
| djszapi | then please stop staying insane things :) | 23:21 |
| djszapi | * saying | 23:21 |
| rzr | lbt: well i dont know your priorities | 23:21 |
| lbt | then we can start an email thread about packaging and ... most importantly.... maintaining them | 23:21 |
| lbt | rzr: the ones that occur most in the build-deps but aren't in harmattan | 23:21 |
| djszapi | lbt: we do not need rules until the system actually works. | 23:21 |
| rzr | best would to set up popcon to know that | 23:21 |
| djszapi | try to make the system works first | 23:21 |
| djszapi | and then people can consider using it ... | 23:21 |
| lbt | just a gut feel - not an analysis | 23:21 |
| lbt | no, not apps | 23:21 |
| lbt | libraries or tools | 23:22 |
| rzr | well hard to tell i can have a look though | 23:22 |
| rzr | lbt: libtls would help i think | 23:22 |
| lbt | as I say, I think someone mentioned cdbs.... which may well need a patch for H | 23:22 |
| lbt | yes, things like that too | 23:22 |
| djszapi | no, cdbs does not need any patch | 23:23 |
| rzr | gtk :) | 23:23 |
| lbt | then we can start by saying "these 5/10 pkgs" go into Surrounds | 23:23 |
| rzr | automake | 23:23 |
| rzr | libbox2d-qml | 23:23 |
| lbt | automake yes... lets hold back on mega stuff like gtk unless we have some gtk maintainer | 23:23 |
| rzr | ncurses | 23:24 |
| rzr | python3-defaults | 23:24 |
| lbt | equally python is 'big' | 23:24 |
| lbt | and there's a meego-python team | 23:24 |
| rzr | i'll dont ask for mesa :) | 23:25 |
| lbt | so they should be involved in making a 'default' version for the community | 23:25 |
| lbt | :D | 23:25 |
| rzr | alsa-lib | 23:25 |
| lbt | actually it's a good point ... mesa is part of HW adaptation | 23:25 |
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| mikhas | I want Vala. | 23:26 |
| lbt | mikhas: is there a vala-meego group? part of meego-gtk ? | 23:26 |
| mikhas | but then again, one can just ship the generated C code … | 23:26 |
| rzr | libatomic-ops | 23:26 |
| mikhas | lbt, I wouldnt consdier Vala as part of GTK+ | 23:27 |
| rzr | readline6 | 23:27 |
| lbt | rzr: OK ... so I'm off to do some work ... don't drop them here... do an email | 23:27 |
| rzr | i'll stop here to let other ask :) | 23:27 |
| lbt | and remember... 5-10 only | 23:27 |
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| lbt | the hard part isn't listing all packages in OSS ... it's picking just a few to start with | 23:27 |
| rzr | tell me your email i'll cut and paste this chat session | 23:27 |
| mikhas | what is the maintenance effort really? | 23:27 |
| rzr | lbt: what about packages i use every day like tmux or rsync ? | 23:28 |
| lbt | rzr: cut'n'paste ... not really. Put some thought in | 23:28 |
| lbt | it's not about you... it's about setting a base for the community | 23:28 |
| djszapi | mikhas: what do you mean ? | 23:28 |
| lbt | home:rzr is for your "I want" code | 23:28 |
| lbt | (for now) | 23:28 |
| lbt | mikhas: ask again in 18months | 23:28 |
| rzr | let me suggest to create a wiki page about that community repo | 23:29 |
| mikhas | djszapi, I can only speak for GNOME libs, but so far everything that was autotool'ed was rather easy to "maintain" | 23:29 |
| djszapi | rzr: there is already one actually. | 23:29 |
| mikhas | if that means updating from upstream | 23:29 |
| rzr | url ? | 23:29 |
| lbt | rzr and mikhas did you ever read : http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Extras | 23:29 |
| djszapi | mikhas: I do not see how it is different to any distribution, especially debian. In this particular case, I think it is even easier. | 23:29 |
| lbt | (especially the linked pages) | 23:29 |
| mikhas | lbt, this was discussed back in Dublin already, no? | 23:30 |
| rzr | i'll put my 5/10 list item to start and pple may vote on them and we'll start in a week or so | 23:30 |
| lbt | mikhas: oh yes... and guess how much effort got put in by (! lbt & xfade) ? | 23:30 |
| rzr | lbt: not yet that's the page i've never found better now than never | 23:31 |
| lbt | but now we have a device and some movement... | 23:31 |
| djszapi | we always had devices, n900, tablets, etc | 23:31 |
| lbt | hopefully the thought behind it may make some people look at the situation with maemo extras and think a little | 23:31 |
| rzr | lbt: can we use that page to list those 5/10 packages ? | 23:31 |
| lbt | rzr: sure... I propose some kind of action plan page. | 23:32 |
| lbt | those pages are about the reasoning ... try not to mix things up too much | 23:32 |
| rzr | not that soon i'll prefer to read all the boring linked pages :) | 23:33 |
| lbt | boring! | 23:33 |
| lbt | they're full of wit and insight! | 23:33 |
| mikhas | I probably have a too simple view on these matters, so you wouldnt want my input anyways. | 23:34 |
| lbt | if you consider my points and take the time to respond then of course I would. If you don't take the time to read a carefully thought out proposal... then no, not so much ;) | 23:35 |
| djszapi | the system must get stable first anyway. | 23:35 |
| lbt | fair? | 23:35 |
| mikhas | I dont think my simpl view on these matters would change. I'd prefer a simple solution that works now and increase the difficulty iteratively ;-) | 23:36 |
| mikhas | But you want the whole QA and whatnot working from day 1. | 23:36 |
| mece | hmm qtsdk managed to generate svg and png icons and make the thing in control file, but how do I do that when I change the icon? | 23:36 |
| lbt | mikhas: in other words you are saying "I don't know what you said but it's probably wrong" | 23:36 |
| lbt | OK ... so that's coming down on the "not so much" I'm afraid... | 23:37 |
| mikhas | It doesnt sound very convincing. | 23:37 |
| djszapi | I think about that with mikhas. Full of QA from the minute first can kill the purpose. | 23:37 |
| djszapi | * agree | 23:37 |
| lbt | No, I don't want the whole QA from day 1. But I don't want a steaming pile of mixed up junk either. | 23:37 |
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| djszapi | we are here for leisure time, and it is not a paid job for us. I do not think 100% QA is a good idea. It can just frigthen the so few enthusiasts way - including myself. | 23:38 |
| lbt | Which, btw, is not useless... just not a good baseline to use when you aim for a reliable system | 23:38 |
| djszapi | * away | 23:38 |
| lbt | it's *great* for hacking ! :D | 23:38 |
| lcuk | the main thing about qt | 23:39 |
| lcuk | is that less cruft by default | 23:39 |
| djszapi | that is the thing, yes we are hackers, not a company. | 23:39 |
| * lbt off for a bit .... bbl8r | 23:39 | |
| lcuk | in the maemo days, it was possible easily to throw stuff at autobuilder and be in -devel | 23:39 |
| mece | lcuk, I want that for n9/50 | 23:42 |
| mece | why does this svg icon show up so fugly in app grid? | 23:42 |
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| rzr | lbt: i'll think about what you suggested , but i started this entry in case of someone what to join this task : http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Apps#ToDo_:_BootStrap | 23:45 |
| rzr | 100% QA is needed soon or later | 23:46 |
| rzr | like debian | 23:46 |
| rzr | that's what make the distro so streinght | 23:46 |
| rzr | arg how do you speel that word | 23:46 |
| djszapi | I prefer the sane habit over the dogmatic bunch of rules. | 23:47 |
| djszapi | strength | 23:47 |
| rzr | I need a spellchecker too :) | 23:48 |
| djszapi | and at any rate...it is a dream world since the first step would be to fix c-obs. | 23:48 |
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| djszapi | and I am still not sure c-obs is the best place of doing this. | 23:48 |
| rzr | djszapi: enough time for chatting , we'll need to RTFM :) | 23:48 |
| djszapi | eh ? | 23:49 |
| rzr | http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html | 23:49 |
| djszapi | I think it is a good idea to try maemo.org out, and we can have a good comparison. | 23:50 |
| djszapi | so we can choose which one fits better for Harmattan. | 23:50 |
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