IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-08-13

Venemospenap, I found it00:00
Venemobut now I get this.00:00
ieatlintnope, N9s aren't out yet00:00
VenemoI only want that stupid TextArea to emit a linkActivated signal when the TextEdit emits the same.00:00
crevetorI know but some people already have them (Jukka has one for instance, maybe Quim too)00:00
ieatlintyeah, quim does00:01
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Venemoseems that this time I could hack it the way I wanted.00:38
MohammadAGwazd, where's my mockup! :P00:56
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lcukMohammadAG, mockup of?01:12
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Venemogood evening :)02:12
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TSCHAKeeeI have been using the Qt SDK as gotten on Qt's main website, and while I am successfully buildin, I am building QML apps on my N950, I can't seem to find the qt-components for Harmattan....where can I get those?03:08
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hardakerTSCHAKeee: sadly, only on the device at this point.03:10
hardakerwhich means you need to run your app either in the emulator or on the device itself.03:10
TSCHAKeeehow in the hell are we supposed to develop with them?03:10
hardakerit'll still compile stuff for it and even auto-install and run it on the device.03:11
TSCHAKeeejust blindly import and know what the component names are?03:11
hardakerwell there is documentation.03:11
hardakerand all you need to import is "com.meego 1.0"03:11
hardakerto get them all.03:11
hardakerI've actually got to run...  but i'll be back later; I'm surprised others aren't here to answer too (it's usually very noisy in here).03:12
hardaker(btw, you can also use straight qml without any special components and then it'll run on the desktop too)03:12
TSCHAKeeeoh I nkow03:13
Arkenoihmm, sim malfunction may cause n950 to ask for reflash, that's strange. i did software reset sim card and it showed me warning sign until it completed03:13
TSCHAKeeewe've been making custom components03:13
TSCHAKeeebut I wanted to see what I could do on just the N950 for our app03:13
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MohammadAGlcuk, file manager03:35
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TSCHAKeeehmmm I am getting this:04:51
TSCHAKeeeBorderImage: Failed to get image from provider: image://theme/meegotouch-toolbar-portrait-background04:51
TSCHAKeeewhat gives?04:51
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TSCHAKeeei need help, nobody around05:05
TSCHAKeeeno info on google05:05
TSCHAKeeelooks like the qml components that ship with my n950 are bust05:05
TSCHAKeeethanks a lot.05:05
ajalkaneTSCHAKeee: qt-components for harmattan are in gitorious05:25
ajalkaneyou can get them from there and compile them for use in desktop05:25
TSCHAKeeethat is my output from my N95005:25
TSCHAKeeethis is an app that has multiple targets, including harmattan05:26
TSCHAKeeeit was running fine with the basic Qt Quick components we fashioned for desktop05:26
TSCHAKeeebut i wanted to try building a UI with the harmattan components05:26
TSCHAKeeeand am getting bizarre errors (such as what I pasted above.)05:26
TSCHAKeeeam using an updated Qt Creator to do all my dev work05:27
ajalkaneWell, the harmattan theme is proprietary. You can't include it in an app you distribute for desktop for example.05:27
ajalkaneThe error is just the missing harmattan theme05:27
TSCHAKeeeshouldn't that be on the device?05:28
TSCHAKeeeI am deploying TO my n95005:29
ajalkaneok, I misunderstood, I thought you wanted to run it on desktop05:29
ajalkaneyes it should be on desktop05:30
TSCHAKeeeno, I understand I can't do that05:30
ajalkaneyou can run it on desktop but it requires a bit work and is not redistributable on desktop05:30
TSCHAKeeeI can make a new Harmattan only project and it works05:30
TSCHAKeeei don't need to run it on desktop05:30
TSCHAKeeei have the real device05:30
ajalkanewell let me see if I have that background pic05:30
TSCHAKeeebut see05:30
TSCHAKeeeif I make a new project05:30
TSCHAKeeethat is SPECIFICALLY a harmattan app, which ONLY has that option05:31
TSCHAKeeethen it finds the theme05:31
TSCHAKeeeso what gives?05:31
TSCHAKeeewtf am I missing?05:31
TSCHAKeeejesus fucking christ, this is such a pain in the ass.05:32
ajalkanehmm... ok... so you have a desktop project and you've manually added harmattan target? Sorry I'm a bit lost here.05:32
TSCHAKeeecross platform my @#($#@(%#@05:32
TSCHAKeeeajalkane: I have a large project that is QML and C++ based...05:32
TSCHAKeeeand we have multiple targets selected...05:32
TSCHAKeeeInitially, I was just going to use the standard Qt Quick components across everything05:33
TSCHAKeeeand that works fine...05:33
TSCHAKeeebut I wanted to try and use the Harmattan components ON my N950 target05:33
TSCHAKeeeand do new qml to use them05:33
TSCHAKeeehowever, if I do this, I get all sorts of interesting error messages coming from my phone, including:05:33
TSCHAKeeeajalkane: ^^05:35
ajalkaneHow it locates the theme is is in some lib, maybe it's not linked with the project?05:35
ajalkane(I have the baby here with me, sorry if it takes sometimes a bit time for me)05:35
TSCHAKeeemaybe.. but i'm ...05:35
TSCHAKeeeyou know what?05:35
TSCHAKeeeyou obviously don't know the answer.05:36
* TSCHAKeee goes back to hacking.05:36
ajalkanenot off hand, sorry05:36
TSCHAKeeeif I selected Qt Quick Application when I first developed this, does this mean that the Harmattan Components won't work?05:51
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your_nick_herewoohoo /j /join works :D06:59
your_nick_herei am hiemanshu btw06:59
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* RzR runs lemmings amiga game on his n95010:14
RzRbut cant hardly play10:16
Arkenoidoes not look like standby time for n950 with active messengers is going to be *much* better than n950. likely to be better, though10:17
Arkenoijust difference is not that big as some people expected10:17
TSCHAKeeeTSL ported Pinball Fantasies10:19
TSCHAKeeedid a fantastic job10:19
TSCHAKeeeit's in the Ovi store10:19
TSCHAKeeeone of those VH1 Where Are They Now moments... a legendary Amiga Demo group, now doing mobile phone games.10:20
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RzRyes i saw that on ovi10:26
RzRbut i cant log in ovi :)10:26
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RzRi could run it if i had those F1 keys :)10:26
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RzRnow runnning battle chess10:27
RzRif you remember good old disk too test fell free to suggest some i'll make a video demo10:31
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rcgmorning all10:36
Arkenoihave to warn you all: restok.conf will be signature protected10:41
Arkenoiif you edit it by hand you will get10:42
ArkenoiWith your capabilities we cannot go to MALF state10:42
ArkenoiFailed '/var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf' signature check10:42
ArkenoiUpdating desktop entries... Done10:42
ArkenoiE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)10:42
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rcgmorning Venemo11:00
Venemohey rcg :)11:00
Venemowhat's up?11:00
rcgwell.. am working on a treeview11:01
Venemonice :)11:02
rcgmaybe i can publish some screenshot today :)11:02
rcghows your irc client going?11:02
tommawas there some way to take screenshot by some key combinations or something?11:11
tommaok Ctrl+shift+p works outside my qml app11:14
tommabut not in11:14
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fralstomma: widgets gallery got a screenshot tool at least11:31
ajalkaneovi store has also good utility for screenshots11:33
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ajalkaneits imo better than the widgets gallery one11:34
Venemorcg, it's going well11:36
tommafrals, yeah found wg tool and seems to work11:38
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wazd_hi all11:57
rcgVenemo: sounds great :)11:58
rcghey wazd_11:58
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wazdRST38h: <- check this out :)11:59
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wazdRST38h: <- and this one12:07
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VenemorZr, ping13:56
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RST38hanyone knows if I can take over the volume buttons in my app???14:18
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alteregoYes, I think it's the same as you do in fremantle.14:20
wazdRST38h: o/14:20
wazdRST38h: check your inbox :)14:20
RST38halterego: goood14:20
RST38hwazd: yeaaah ;) thanks! taking the one with bright colors14:21
wazdRST38h: cool :)14:21
RST38hwazd: but it has got an error. There is no 82+SE. There is just plain old 82. Could you fix both images?14:21
wazdRST38h: sure. one moment14:21
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wazdoh crap14:24
wazd82, not +14:24
wazdRST38h: same links14:26
Venemo~seen fiferboy14:28
infobotfiferboy <~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 14h 39m 13s ago, saying: 'Venemo: Are you running the stock version on the N950?'.14:28
RST38hwazd: aha, thanks14:29
RST38hwazd: wait I got no links just email attachments14:30
RST38hwazd: so what are the links? =)14:30
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wazdRST38h: <wazd> RST38h:*** Qwertyu has quit IRC: Remote host closed the connection<wazd> RST38h:
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RST38hwazd:packaging, but found one more bug to fix14:40
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RST38hwazd:oh shit one more correction14:44
RST38hwazd: it is 73, not 73+SE =(14:44
RST38ha moment, something is wrong with these menus14:44
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RST38hwazd: the original menu has them as follows (left ot right, top to bottom): 85, 86, 82, 83, 83+, 73, 83+SE, 84+, 84+SE14:45
RST38hwazd: that should be the order =)14:45
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wazdRST38h: no 73+ ?14:50
RST38hwazd: yea14:50
RST38hwazd: 83+SE is there though14:51
Venemojoppu, ping14:51
Venemo~seen joppu14:51
infobotjoppu is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego, last said: 'I'll see if I can come up with something presentable :P'.14:51
RST38hqml:Config.qml: Network error14:52
wazdRST38h: I guess I've just forgot to change the number cause the skin looks like 83+SE :)14:52
wazdRST38h: updated the files, same links14:54
RST38hwazd: package ready. want it?15:00
wazdRST38h: sure15:00
RST38hwazd: the 84+SE image is still off, and I think you swapped 84+ and 84+se kbd images in that menu15:01
RST38hwazd: at least the se edition looks more gray/silvery to me :)15:01
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RST38hbut aside from these two issues, works like a charm15:01
RST38hcatch the dcc15:02
wazdRST38h: I guess it would be better to mail me15:02
wazdRST38h: it doesn't work15:02
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wazdRST38h: got it15:07
wazdRST38h: gtg bbl :)15:07
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javispedrolcuk: do you have a small testcase application that reproduces the xv tearing bug on the N950?16:52
lcukjavispedro, not immediately I do not16:52
lcuki have a few things to do but will try best to put one together for you16:53
javispedrothanks! but no hurries, take your time16:53
javispedroI'm still exploring the driver to see how to do vsynced 2D and RGB xv does not seem out of the question16:54
MohammadAGcan someone provide static images like these ?16:54
javispedroMohammadAG: you mean, "draw" them?16:55
javispedromaybe wazd =)16:55
lcukjavispedro, alterego should know16:56
lcukhis app looks like that16:56
lcukand doesn't qmlcompass already look similar16:57
javispedrobut not that cute so far :)16:57
lcukjavispedro, rgb xv was something I heard about a long time ago16:57
MohammadAGlcuk, it looks primitive, simple16:58
* lcuk just hand draws an arrow16:58
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joppuVenemo: pong17:47
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javispedromwahaha, triple buffered17:50
* RST38h moos at javispedro17:50
javispedrohelo RST38h17:51
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hiemanshu_N950hey people18:01
hiemanshu_N950Venemo, it works :)18:02
hiemanshu_N950SpeedEvil, wannan try out the irc client?18:02
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hiemanshu_changing nicks works too :)18:03
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RST38hjavispedro: I am almost done with the packages18:05
SpeedEvilhiemanshu: Sure.18:05
RST38hjavispedro:in fact, yesterday versions are available from rm_you's repo18:05
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: you need libircclient-qt from rZr's repo18:05
SpeedEvil:) I'll try to dig it up later - in the middle of house stuff ATM.18:06
hiemanshuno problem, Venemo is planning a public release soon18:07
javispedroRST38h: and where is that? :)18:07
hiemanshuVenemo: let me know when you are around18:07
Venemoah, yes.18:08
hiemanshuVenemo: join #irc-chatter please18:08
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Venemojoppu, do you feel like making an icon for an IRC client?18:09
RST38hjavispedro: deb ./18:10
Venemojoppu, since you have a good reputation in making icons :)18:10
Venemojoppu, it doesn't have to be complicated18:10
joppuI'll see about it; been REALLY busy with my work recently18:10
Venemojoppu, oh, sorry18:11
SpeedEvilVenemo: Take the x-chat icon, replace with a V?18:11
VenemoSpeedEvil, why V?18:11
SpeedEvilV enemo18:11
VenemoI was thinking of a harmattan-style background with a speech bubble or something like that18:11
tommajust do something with inkscape and use to add harmattan icon background18:14
Venemotomma, I would, but I can't handle Inkscape at all.18:16
tommamaybe i am drunk enough to do one =)18:16
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Venemotomma, sure! I was thinking of that orange background that the RSS app uses... and a chat bubble with a hashmark # on top of that.18:16
Venemoall right now, let me reboot to Fedora, and I'll come back18:18
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joppuHey, the hashmark was my idea :D18:21
joppuI decided to I might as well give it a shot18:22
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tommajavispedro, is there some bug with dropshadow? as it seems to be clipped somehow there?18:23
* Venemo is back18:23
javispedrotomma: can you retry saving it as a "plain SVG" in inkscape?18:23
javispedroeither way I am not sure it will fix it, I thought doing automated operations on SVGs would be a breeze but seems it's more like an art.18:24
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tommait seems to work with own drop shadow...
tommayeah it was inkscape svg...18:25
tommawhy is there so many different formats18:25
VenemoI need some serious help from a QML guru!18:26
tommadoesn't seem to affect anything18:26
joppuyou gotta be fucking kidding me18:28
joppuinkscape crashed18:28
npm_lovely ad google pops up these days: "Invest in nok stock for $4"18:32
SpeedEvilIs anyone aware of 'A guide for hardware makers wanting to make NFC hardware for the N9' or similar sorts of documents tht might be out there?18:34
npm_nice SVG's -- is there a "background standard harmattan" svg for icons anybody can point me to?18:36
npm_so i can make my own18:36
joppuI tried18:37
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Venemojoppu, exactly what I was thinking about :) could you make this with an orange background?18:37
Venemojoppu, and with the necessary N950 resolution18:38
Venemo(not sure how big that is exactly)18:38
joppuit's 80x80 as required18:38
Venemoah, ok18:38
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Venemojoppu, GREAT :)18:40
Venemojoppu, one more small thing: could you flip the chat bubble horizontally? (not the hasmark, just the bubble)18:41
joppusure thing18:41
tommaVenemo, you can use svg as icon18:42
Venemojoppu, just because I want it to resemle the icon of the Messges app as little as possible18:42
Venemotomma, I have no idea how, and don't have the time to learn it now.18:43
tommasame way as png18:43
tommait is just scalable18:43
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Venemoand what do I get out of it?18:45
Venemoscalable. hm18:45
Venemowell in that case, joppu, if you have it in SVG format as well, could you please upload that too somewhere?18:45
tommayou can use same icon anywhere?18:45
tommaanywhere that supports it =)18:46
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npm_some good source for icons :
Venemojoppu, great, exactly what I imagined :)18:48
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Venemojoppu, you've done great work, as always :)18:48
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joppuVenemo: appreciated :)18:49
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jopputoo bad it won't earn me a dev device :/18:49
npm_wish there was a program to drop in a SVG URL and get a harmattan icon out18:49
Venemonpm_, use javispedro's stuff18:50
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npm_cool thanks javispedro18:50
javispedrothere are actually two converters by now18:50
javispedromine is svg based but there was another one on tmo, png based18:50
Venemojoppu, can I have an SVG of it?18:51
hiemanshu_N950joppu, lovely icon :)18:52
npm_"party popper" .... it's a good thing people don't remember the 70's with an icon name like that...18:52
npm_Warning: Division by zero in /home/javispedro/srv/depot/nit/hicg/index.php on line 22218:55
npm_source was :
npm_oh need to prescale18:57
javispedronpm_: open in inkspace, hit File -> Document propierties -> Adjust page to content18:58
javispedroleave no margins, click Adjust18:58
javispedrothen Save As .... Plain Svg (*.svg)18:58
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joppuVenemo: the backround squicle thing isn't a vector :(18:58
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Venemojoppu, aah. well then, I'll just use your latest png :)19:00
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jopputhe templates were in shitty adobe format so I had to export them out as raster19:01
Venemoaah. how disappointing.19:01
javispedrothough obviously you need to change the colors to match Nokia's templates though19:02
decipherhi guys. I have an N950 and today it died totally out of the blue.19:02
javispedrobut the paths et all already exactly match19:02
deciphernow the device keeps rebooting right after the boot screen19:03
deciphertrying to reflash gives this: ERROR: SU_GET_UPDATE_STATUS_REQ terminated with error code 1: Unknown error19:03
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decipherI am an external at Nokia so I have access to all of the harmattan repos.19:04
decipherwhenever I try to flash something it asks for the APE algo image (which I think should come from the FIASCO?)19:04
deciphercan anyone help with this?19:04
javispedronpm_: though the result is too gray for my taste: ;P19:05
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npm_awesome... i was about to give up because the cone just turned into a triangle19:09
npm_was going to try
lcukjavispedro, that looks more like a vuvuzela19:11
javispedroI just implemented the custom dominant color feature that was requested long ago19:12
javispedrored hot vuvuzuela!19:12
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joppudoesn't look like it't conforming to the size restrictions too much ;P19:18
VenemoI need to leave, will be back later19:19
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lcukdo you think venemo has a cape?19:19
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javispedrojoppu: was thinking the same but it is actually pixel perfect 55x5519:27
javispedroprobably optical illusion or something19:27
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javispedroit should be 54x54 but SVG actually works with subpixel precision so..19:30
javispedroso there it is, one pixel smaller:
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RST38hjavispedro: PING?19:51
javispedroRST38h: pong19:51
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Venemo_N950joppu, your icon looks and works great20:02
joppua screenshot :-D ?20:03
Venemo_N950can't send now20:04
Venemo_N950but i will when i get home20:04
jopputhanks :)20:05
Venemo_N950I will also make a package available this evening20:14
Venemo_N950if you're interested20:14
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lardmanevening all20:25
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hiemanshuhey lardman20:29
lardmanhey SpeedEvil20:29
lardmanhi hiemanshu20:29
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lardmanand there I was thinking it was only tumbleweeds in the chan this evening ;)20:29
* SpeedEvil blows around in the winds.20:29
lardmanmy battery life has just perked up again, so seems it's not down to the battery but presumably some errant process20:30
TSCHAKeeehas anyone done qml using harmattan components that reflows to portrait or landscape orientations?20:31
lardmanargh QDBusError("org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod", "Method "RegisterDBusCallback" with signature "ssss" on interface "org.maemo.photoanalyser" doesn't exist20:32
lardmanI do hope I'm getting closer to the answer.....20:33
* lardman looks to see what code letter a variant should have20:33
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Venemo_N950found a new bug...20:59
Jaffaalterego: Glad you got it sorted21:02
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TSCHAKeeewhere are the qml harmattan examples?21:21
Elessarthere are some of them21:26
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TSCHAKeeeit's not exactly clear, how to make QML that conforms to Nokia's UI guidelines21:41
Elessarerm.. does it exists?21:43
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javispedrolcuk: you once asked if xserver-xorg-video-fbdev 0.4.0-258+0m6 is much changed from the ones we have the source of.21:56
javispedrolcuk: the answer is yes, a lot.21:56
Venemo_N950javispedro, any news about fmtx/fmrx?21:57
* javispedro is comparing a coredump from having crashed Xorg on the N950 to the source code that is available and they not resemble very little21:57
javispedroVenemo_N950: given up for the time being until I have more info21:58
Venemo_N950that page doesn't wanna load in my crappy connection21:59
Venemo_N950ok, then I'm not disconnected22:00
lcukjavispedro, I expected it would have done22:00
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javispedrodamn MIT license22:02
javispedroit is a nokia-binary22:02
Venemo_N950so, anyone interested in a Harmattan IRC client, the good news is that it's well on the way, completed soon. a v0.1 will be released this evening.22:02
Venemo_N950javispedro, xorg?22:03
javispedrono, the changes Nokia made to the fbdev driver22:03
RST38hVenemo: gimme.22:03
Venemo_N950RST38h, there is still a bug I wanna fix... unfortunately I don't know what causes it22:06
Venemo_N950RST38h, if you're comfortable with building stuff for yourself, see the links in /topic of #irc-chatter22:06
* javispedro curses and ponders when to open the Harmattan License Change Requests Queue22:08
Venemo_N950RST38h, it needs a simple qmake+make22:08
Venemo_N950javispedro, for what purpose?22:08
TSCHAKeeethose examples run TERRIBLY on the n95022:08
Venemo_N950javispedro, I can tell you what the results will be22:09
TSCHAKeeeare there _ANY_ REAL harmattan platform API examples?22:09
javispedroc'mon, fbdev was open, and from the changelog they've just done a "cleanup", and THEN closed it22:09
TSCHAKeeeqt-components doesn't cut it22:09
Venemo_N950TSCHAKeee, what kind of examples are you looking for?22:09
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TSCHAKeeeVenemo_N950: i'm looking for QML that conforms to Nokia's N9 UX guidelines22:09
TSCHAKeeewhat we're supposed to use to make apps that conform to those guidelines.22:09
TSCHAKeeei mean, this is basic stuff22:10
TSCHAKeeeI know you guys are programmers and thus have no real interest in aesthetics22:10
TSCHAKeeebut still22:10
TSCHAKeeeI am trying to make a version of my orbiter that I can realistically deploy to Ovi22:11
TSCHAKeeeand that is one of the requirements22:11
Venemo_N950TSCHAKeee, what is wrong with qt-components?22:11
TSCHAKeeehave you _RUN_ the demos?22:11
TSCHAKeeei mean, actually run them22:11
TSCHAKeeelike, the flickr example22:11
Venemo_N950I just made apps22:11
TSCHAKeeeok, so you wrote those?22:12
* TSCHAKeee makes some screenies22:12
SpeedEvilVenemo isn't with nokia.22:12
TSCHAKeeeseriously, I'm pissed22:12
Venemo_N950I wrote two apps with qt-components, but I never read their examples22:13
Venemo_N950SpeedEvil, yeah, you are right22:13
javispedroTSCHAKeee: if you're the kind of guy that gets pissed with qt-components dissimilarities with the stock apps, then use libmeegotouch22:13
TSCHAKeeefor example, how am I supposed to make the coloured headers that are present with most of those apps?22:13
lcukTSCHAKeee, screenshots ples22:14
ajalkaneTSCHAKeee: there is many components missing from QML. Most of the stock apps are made using the deprecated MeeGo Touch Framework22:15
TSCHAKeeeof course it is22:15
Venemo_N950TSCHAKeee, those are not required at all. but you could just put a Rectangle at the top of your Page, and you could add a Label to that rectangle22:15
ajalkaneI expect those components to come in time. For now, we have to bite the bullet and do our best impression of them with QML22:15
TSCHAKeeenot that that is required22:15
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Venemo_N950TSCHAKeee, according to frals, this is how he did it for the facebook app22:15
TSCHAKeeebut I am TRYING to make stuff CONSSITENT!22:16
TSCHAKeeedamned keyboard.22:16
javispedroTSCHAKeee: consistence is not really valued in this platform..22:16
ajalkaneI share your pain, sir, and I'm struggling with making things consistent also.22:16
lcukTSCHAKeee, I would expect with your app crossing different platforms22:17
lcukmaking same app look like your others would be the consistent way?22:17
TSCHAKeeelcuk: i am making QML optimized for each platform22:17
lcukotherwise holding remote control using one ux and main system with another22:17
lcukwould throw off users22:17
ajalkanehey... how can I ssh as user into the device? ssh:ing as developer is easy of course (and as root as the password is known), but how about as user? Do I first have to set passwd in the device or what's the recommended way?22:17
TSCHAKeeenot if you actually spend time making a UI that mas ense22:17
lcuklook at apple22:17
lcukthey keep their branding across the board22:18
TSCHAKeeeI am trying to do that, but I also want to make something that makes sense on this handset22:18
TSCHAKeeeit's a balance22:18
lcukajalkane, ssh in as root22:18
lcuksetup user passwd22:18
TSCHAKeeeand trust me, have a loooot more experience with this than yo do22:18
lcukthen have fun22:18
lcukTSCHAKeee, o_O22:18
ajalkaneok thx lcuk22:18
TSCHAKeeei'm going on 20+ years of making user facing apps, you? ;022:19
TSCHAKeeenevermind sorry, not trying to get into an argument or fight.22:19
TSCHAKeeejust frustrated and angry.22:19
lcukTSCHAKeee, i just asked why you did not make your apps look the same as each other22:19
lcukwhich I would expect ;)22:20
TSCHAKeeethey will have similar branding22:20
TSCHAKeeebut the UXes will be optimized for each device22:20
Venemo_N950well... just start coding and things will come together22:20
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Venemo_N950TSCHAKeee, I can offer you my own code to use as example :P22:20
TSCHAKeeethat's the crazy reasoning behind QML22:20
TSCHAKeeeVenemo_N950: thanks.22:21
Elessaris there any way to get harmattan toolchain without downloading the full sdk?22:21
GAN900You want consistent, you want Qt Components.22:21
GAN900You want custom you want plain QML.22:21
TSCHAKeeeeach target gets its own QML22:21
Venemo_N950Elessar, if you can get hold of the MADDE files, you can install it into MADDE22:21
TSCHAKeeewhich is why Nokia went down this path.22:22
TSCHAKeeeit's not one size fits all22:22
TSCHAKeeeyou can't design stuff that way22:22
GAN900TSCHAKeee, I think I'm missing the issue a bit.22:22
GAN900Why isn't Components acceptable?22:22
TSCHAKeeeGAN900: it's not that it's not acceptable, it's that, I'm trying to make something that looks like the other apps on the handset.22:22
lcukTSCHAKeee, sure you can, iphone apps scale onto ipad22:22
GAN900lcuk, not gracefully.22:23
ajalkaneGAN900: Components is missing many things. For example Group Headers, the color bar, the time picker. These are just the things I've ran into22:23
TSCHAKeeelcuk: not exactly.22:23
lcukand a correctly written app in anything really has scale invariance22:23
GAN900lcuk, and that isn't a particularly productive argument.22:23
javispedrothe only framework that even approximantes to the idea that the same interface can run on both handset and tablet is Palm's Enyo22:23
TSCHAKeeei've been down this road22:24
GAN900TSCHAKeee, Components is what's going to get you consistency.22:24
TSCHAKeeewith multiple platforms and UIs22:24
lcukGAN900, it is like computing has regressed!  we went through a phase where size handles and window resizing was common22:24
TSCHAKeeeGAN900: yeah, I know..but stuff is missing22:24
Venemo_N950ajalkane, it is not missing the time picker22:24
lcuknow it seems that everybody is back to one individual fixed size22:24
GAN900Yes, it's got some nasty warts.22:24
lcuklike SVG was never invented22:24
lcukthe S is important22:24
ajalkaneVenemo_N950: It has timepicker, but it's completely different than what's used in the stock apps22:24
GAN900fiferboy is probably the guy to talk to about dealing with them. :P22:24
TSCHAKeeelcuk: no, we didn't regress... we learned that you can't make a UI that fits everything.22:24
javispedrolcuk: the problem is stuff like that a mail application should be a two column view on a tablet, but a paged view on a handset22:24
GAN900lcuk, different usecases for different device formfactors.22:25
TSCHAKeeeGAN900 hit it right on the head.22:25
GAN900A handset doesn't serve the same purpose as a tablet or a laptop.22:25
lcukjavispedro, intelligent use of resize event22:25
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lcukGAN900, entirely agree on that aspect22:25
* lcuk is just chewing the cud22:25
GAN900lcuk, clearly. :/22:25
TSCHAKeeei'm going back to work22:25
javispedrolcuk: too much work for such an intelligent resize. in VB parlance, it would be like if on resize you end up with one form instead of two.22:25
TSCHAKeeeas it seems i have set off a bomb in here.22:25
Venemo_N950my apps are and (harmattan branch) - they work fine with qt-components22:26
Venemo_N950not sure why you guys are whining22:26
GAN900TSCHAKeee, I think a lot of it is supposed to improve with the retail firmware.22:26
TSCHAKeeeGAN900: I hope so.22:26
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Venemo_N950chech the 'QMLComp...' apps in N950, they have every component22:26
GAN900Venemo_N950, missing components, broken documentation.22:26
Venemo_N950some stuff is in 'import com.meego.extras 1.0'22:26
lcukjavispedro, the design was too cramped initially ;)22:26
Venemo_N950but they ARE there22:26
Venemo_N950some of them are not documented enough, in that we agree22:28
lcukjavispedro, as late as 2009, we had to design ui layouts to fit 800*600 for desktops22:28
lcukno fun, but was the norm for what we did22:28
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javispedrolcuk: there's one big difference22:28
javispedrolcuk: dpi was usually the same22:28
javispedroor very similar22:29
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javispedrohere, you have to design for a 300dpi screen and a 100dpi screen22:30
TSCHAKeeeyes, that is a critical difference now, the physical display sizes are wildly different now22:30
TSCHAKeeeI saw this coming when I was doing app work for GRiD tablets.22:31
javispedrono, you didn't!22:31
TSCHAKeeewhere is     anchors.margins: UiConstants.DefaultMargin defined?22:32
TSCHAKeeejavispedro: yeah, I did.22:32
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ajalkaneUiConstants.DefaultMargin is defined in the qt-components plugin.cpp22:34
Venemo_N950TSCHAKeee, UIConstants.js, but it's probably available in some component's platformStyle property22:36
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TSCHAKeeewhat's weird, is that I try to use it, and it can't find it.22:36
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Venemo_N950it's not in your project, course it can't find it22:38
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fralsjs-files are not included by imports in qml atm, but afaik qtcomponents 1.1 exports the uiconstants through c++ so they are available when imported22:39
ajalkaneUIConstants(.js) is different than UiConstants. UIConstants.js's defines are all upper case (like UIConstants.FONT_DEFAULT). UiConstants is in the c++ plugin code, and is mixed case.22:40
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TSCHAKeeeI'm wanting to make sure to apply the correct margins, which should I use?22:43
Venemo_N950I use a margin of 1022:44
* TSCHAKeee facepalms.22:44
Venemo_N950since it's inconsistent in the builtin apps too, I don't think anyone cares...22:44
TSCHAKeeeso much for doing this shit right.22:44
* Venemo_N950 shrugs22:46
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GAN900Well, the consistency is that it's somewhat inconsistent. :P22:47
GAN900As long as it looks clean and usable you're mostly OK.22:48
Venemo_N950GAN900 ++22:48
ajalkaneDefault margin is 1622:48
Venemo_N950GAN900, are you interested in an N950 irc client22:48
Venemo_N950I think I recall you saying you missed it22:49
GAN900That, FBReader and GTalk and I can actually use the damn thing day-to-day.22:49
Venemo_N950just asking because I'm planning on a v0.1 this evening :)22:50
TSCHAKeeei would like a copy, as well.22:50
SpeedEvilMe too.22:50
Venemo_N950I still have one or two nasty bugs to fix, but then I'll publish a .deb so people can start battle-testing it22:51
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Venemo_N950SpeedEvil, GAN900, TSCHAKeee, see the /topic in #irc-chatter for its wiki page. feel free to add any feature requests to the wishlist :)22:53
Venemo_N950there is also a nice screenshot at that page22:53
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lardmanhey lcuk, it appears my battery problem is not hw but sw as it's now back to very long life again22:57
lardmani.e. less that 25% down since this morning22:57
* SpeedEvil ponders ideas.22:59
lcuklardman, good to hear23:00
lcukbut odd it might have been environmental then23:00
lcukie signal strength as you suggested23:00
GAN900Venemo_N950, does it do nick coloring?23:00
GAN900and can you hash it to more colors (and more randomly) than XChat?23:00
lardmanlcuk: not sure about the environmental as I've not been home all day23:00
lardmanlcuk: though the camera failed to start earlier today, so perhaps something had stopped running23:01
lardmanno idea23:01
lcukeither way, solved!23:01
lardmanwell, for the time being! ;)23:01
lardmanI need to work out what it was caused by23:01
* lardman is having troubles with circularly referencing include files23:02
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TSCHAKeeehas anyone experimented with using a Flow positioner to make QML that lays out in Landscape/Portrait?23:09
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Venemo_N950I need to leave now... ttyl23:17
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