IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-08-11

ieatlintshame... probably ran into each other at one point or another00:00
GAN900Quite possibly00:00
apolajalkane: that's not funny00:00
GAN900Somebody really needs to get a nick field on the nametags for the next conference.00:01
ajalkaneapol: AFAIK I'm afraid that's the path. There's some rudimentary Qt stylings included, but they're deprecated00:01
ieatlintnormally i can just say i was the white scrawny geek, but i think i kind of blended in at that conference00:01
javispedroGAN900: _what_ next conference? ;)00:01
GAN900and make the text usefully large so you don't have to put your nose in the other person's chest to read it.00:01
GAN900javispedro, Android, duh.00:01
GAN900ieatlint, yeah. . . .00:01
ieatlinti'm hoping to be at qt dev days in munich, definitely will be at qt dev days in sf00:02
wazdGAN900: I remember fiferboy was smart enough to use company name as nick :D00:03
* javispedro _could_ actually go to an Android conference as long as they still have that smoothie bar thing they had on MWC.00:03
GAN900wazd, yes.00:04
GAN900and qole put it in as part of his first name in Dublin.00:04
ieatlinti just got a badge that said "Stephen Elop" instead00:05
GAN900I heard about that00:05
GAN900but I don't think I ever saw the badge.00:05
ieatlinti'm also happy to see that based on yesterday's news, i will have to be importing an n9 into the US00:07
fiferboywazd: Well, smart enough to sharpie it in over my company name :)00:07
fiferboyGot to go, talk later00:07
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ajalkaneieatlint: I'm pretty sure N9 will come available in US during 2012. But if you're in hurry you must import.00:08
ieatlintdepends on the price00:08
ieatlintbut yeah..00:08
GAN900ieatlint, hope there'll be some sort of dev program for the N9.00:09
ieatlintGAN900: i'm pretty sure the n950 is that dev program00:09
ieatlintperhaps i just need to convince them i have some nfc use that they should give me an n9 for00:09
GAN900Well, they've done loaner and discount programs separately in the past.00:09
GAN900September protos, Summit protos and then DDP.00:10
ajalkaneieatlint: qgil hinted that the n950 dev program is pretty much over, and the next devices to be handed out if there will be any will be N900:10
ieatlintajalkane: yeah, but if they handed me an n950, i doubt they'll hand me an n900:10
ajalkaneieatlint: true.00:10
ieatlinti'll just lean on quim00:10
ieatlintmaybe convince him on the nfc angle :)00:10
ajalkaneyeah, the nfc angle is the winner thing. I'm already doing my malicious plotting on that too.00:11
ieatlinti've already done an nfc app for symbian :)00:11
ajalkaneyou're well established then to get n9. I have only evil plans :(00:12
ieatlintwill see00:12
ieatlinti'd also be somewhat content with DDP even just making them available for purchase00:12
javispedroDo not worry, the next you'll hear from Nokia is that they're shipping the promised WP7 devices for launchpad devs. the next mail you'll receive afterwards will tell you where the bankruptcy auction for Nokia, Inc. assets will be scheduled.00:12
ajalkaneBut my wife likes N950, so she'll probably get N9. So in a way, maybe I do too.00:13
ieatlintit'll never go to auction00:13
ieatlintremember, microsoft has a lot of cash on hand00:13
ajalkaneWP will be a disaster, I have no doubts about that. Either Nokia gets bought out or they reverse the course. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying developing.00:14
ieatlinti don't see another decent gnu/linux phone on the horizon, so i need to try and get as much time out of the n9/50 as i can :(00:15
ajalkaneieatlint: yeah exactly what I'm thinking also. This phone is really the first one that hit my excitement nerves.00:15
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antman8969how to open source developers handle selling their applications?00:17
ieatlintby putting them in the ovi/nokia store with a price tag?00:17
antman8969specifially... stopping people from downloading the source and building00:17
antman8969or else, whats the point of sellling00:17
ajalkaneantman8969: uh?00:17
antman8969for mobile00:18
ieatlintuh, there is no stopping people from doing that00:18
ajalkanethere's lots of point selling. Most users can't bother with building.00:18
ajalkaneWhat's the point of open source if you can't build it?00:18
rcgantman8969: well pretty obviously it won't be open source then anymore00:18
antman8969lol well right rcg00:18
ieatlintplus supporting independent developers is something even people who can build it like to do00:18
GAN900Wish I could stockpile N950s.00:19
GAN900Went through 3 N900s. :/00:19
antman8969was curious... wanted to put up a 1$ app but didn't know how to go about it00:19
ajalkaneMy children are gungho about getting the "Meego" on their hands. I've been protective.00:19
javispedroantman8969: support00:19
javispedroyou don't receive any money = you can walk away and never answer a question about the application, never update it, never fix the problems that arise.00:20
ajalkaneantty: just put it to Ovi, publish sources. Most people prefer the ease of installation instead of building.00:20
ajalkaneWhat was it... Nanoparticles. The game for N900, was done that way.00:20
javispedroyou receive money = you are attached to it. That's how at I least would like the world to work :)00:20
antman8969lol I agree javispedro, the app is simple enough so that the commitment woudln't be a burden00:21
antman8969but I agree, if it costs something, it's going to be perfect..00:21
javispedroit _will_ be a burden.00:21
antman8969ok, I meant supporting the app I have in mind won't be a _significant_ burden, hopefully outweighed by the gains00:22
SpeedEvilI truly hope the store works for commercial stuff.00:22
antman8969everyone got the store update today right?00:22
SpeedEvilI know I'd like to buy angry birds extra level pack on my n900, as well as some more levels for bounce.00:22
SpeedEvilantman8969: yes00:22
SpeedEvilantman8969: But, it doesn't work as it won't let me login to a nokia account.00:23
ieatlintoooh, store update, no00:23
antman8969hmm, works ofr me lol00:23
* ieatlint checks00:23
antman8969donwloaded 3 or 4 apps00:23
antman8969useless crap, but just to test00:23
ajalkaneI think on mobiles open source + commercialization can work quite well00:23
SpeedEvilajalkane: Possibly.00:23
MohammadAGwazd, any designs for that BT file sender?00:23
javispedroSpeedEvil: have you been able to login using the "Accounts" application in the launcher?00:23
antman8969speedevil, theres an angry birds level builder00:23
SpeedEviljavispedro: no00:23
ieatlintmy n950 always checks for updates at ~5:30pm00:24
javispedroSpeedEvil: letmeguess: "temporary failure" or "service not available at the moment" or similar error banner?00:24
MohammadAGmy N950 misses skype00:24
SpeedEvilService unavailable00:24
javispedroSpeedEvil: reflash00:24
MohammadAGAccounts works for me?00:24
SpeedEviljavispedro: Err - what?00:24
SpeedEviljavispedro: I just reflashed00:24
javispedroSpeedEvil: aegis is for some reason broken on your device00:24
javispedronever understood what causes that, but reflashing fixes it. Both DocScrutinizer and me experience it.00:25
antman8969could it be a proxy issue? something less drastic?00:25
* SpeedEvil mehs.00:25
javispedroSpeedEvil: and if you doubt whether it is Aegis or not, just strace the binary.00:25
MohammadAGjavispedro, you can't log into what?00:25
SpeedEvilI'll do it tomorrow - as I'll need to reboot.00:25
javispedroyou will see how it not does _any single network related call_ but rather writes and reads to aegis socket00:26
MohammadAGdoes reflashing rootfs only clear user data?00:26
ieatlintMohammadAG: reflashing rootfs only does not clear user data00:26
rcgMohammadAG: what do you mean?00:26
ieatlintit will clear passwords though00:26
rcgi reflashed once and the only thing which was note overwritten was the security code i had set00:26
MohammadAGieatlint, not even /home?00:27
ieatlintthe OCF by default will erase the entire device00:27
MohammadAGrcg, one click flasher flashes everything00:27
MohammadAGoh so it's not like iOS?00:27
ieatlint(except the security code)00:27
rcgyep.. used the one click one00:27
ieatlintuh, i don't know if /home entirely was untouched00:27
rcgwhat flasher are you talking about?00:27
MohammadAGafaik user data lives in rootfs there rather than a separate partition00:28
ajalkaneI thought in QML the "import <package> <version>" was so that you could work with newer versions also. However, when I tried using import with 1.0 when I had 1.1 libraries it didn't work. Doh00:28
ieatlinti know MyDocs was untocuhed, and all the accounts i had setup were still there, but it didn't remember my passwords00:28
ieatlintand prompted me for each00:28
antman8969ajalkane that just depends on if that version is installed or not00:29
rcgieatlint: which flasher had you been using?00:30
ieatlintuh, the regular harmattan flasher00:30
ieatlint3.11 i think00:31
rcghmm ic.. i just found the ocf so far00:31
ajalkaneantman8969: but you can't (?) have several versions installed, for example 1.0 and 1.1. So if you write an app for 1.0, and the target device has 1.1 it won't work.00:31
ieatlintoh, yeah, the only image out is in that ocf package00:31
SpeedEviljavispedro: yeah - not disbelieving, just annoyed as I need to debug my laptop properly before doing it.00:31
ieatlintyou can unpack the OCF and get the image00:31
MohammadAGrcg, run it, you'll find all bins in /tmp00:32
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rcgah, great00:32
rcgthanks MohammadAG, ieatlint00:32
antman8969well, you can ajalkane. What makes you say that?00:32
rcghopefully i'll remember that the next time i need to reflash :)00:32
ieatlintor on linux, just look at the OCF in a good text editor.. the first bit of it is a shell script that tells you how to extract it00:32
antman8969ajalkane you could use qtquick 1.0 with harmattan for example00:33
rcgright, will do :)00:33
antman8969ajalkane or am I misunderstanding you00:33
ajalkaneantman8969: I tried using import 1.0 with qt-compontents I had build from git, which were of version 1.1. They did not work unless I used import ... 1.000:35
ajalkaneI mean import ... 1.100:35
antman8969you were using the n950? or a desktop?00:35
ajalkaneantman8969: on desktop. N950 has 1.0 i think.00:36
antman8969I've actually never been able to compile and run perfectly on Desktop, but you can have multiple versions installed00:36
antman8969if you check in /usr/lib/qt4/imports you should see what you need00:37
antman8969theres a different problem there00:37
ajalkaneI ended up renaming in desktop the definitions in qmldir to 1.0 and then it worked fine in Desktop using 1.0 and also on device. But it made me suspicious if the import works with previous versions00:37
antman8969you also could have make a link with ln but yea00:38
antman8969should be fine00:38
ajalkaneantman8969: I don't really understand, because in /usr/lib/qt4/imports there is no version number in folder name (?)00:38
apolhow can I make it to get QML Components in the Qt SDK's QtCreator? I can compile stuff, but I can't add anything further than the basics00:39
antman8969I think it's just defined in the qmldir file00:39
antman8969I had a faq about this... sec00:39
ajalkaneantman8969: the qt-components in git, that I built, created a directory extras.1.1. But it wouldn't work with import until I renamed it as extras (without the 1.1)00:40
ajalkaneapol: what do you mean? You want Qt-components so that you can run them in desktop? Or use in Qt designer?00:41
apolajalkane: in the QtCreator QML designer00:42
ajalkaneapol: Okay... I'm not sure if that's possible at the moment. I don't know a way to do that.00:43
apolso how do I start the Qemu?00:43
apoldo I have to install my system's or it's in the SDK?00:43
ajalkaneapol: it's in the system00:44
ajalkanejust make sure you're running against the harmattan meego api target00:44
ajalkaneby default the SDK uses the harmattan api target, and QEMU won't start with that00:44
apolajalkane: it says that it can't run because qemu is not running00:44
apolah ah ah00:44
apolQemu finished with error: Exit code was 127. <<00:45
ajalkaneI wrote something about my early troubles here, might be useful:
apolis it possible to put a qml-only project in a package? I don't get that option when building...00:50
ajalkaneas far as I've understood, it's possible. But I haven't done it so can't say anyting about it. Most likely you have to modify the .desktop file so that it launches qmlviewer00:50
apolajalkane: but qmlviewer is not in harmattan!00:52
ajalkaneapol: it was named something slightly different in harmattan I think. I might remember wrong.00:53
* apol investigates...00:53
hardakerqt4-declarative-qmlviewer: /usr/bin/qmlviewer00:54
hardakerbut, um, its an interesting differentn problem.00:54
apolhardaker: this package isn't in the bundled repositories00:55
apolwe can't tell users to add repos to get our apps to work00:55
hardakeroh, maybe not.00:55
hardakerno, you should compile it into a real ap.00:55
hardakerqmlviewer makes for nice faster testing though.00:56
hardakerif it worked, which it doesn't quite.00:56
MekI thought qmlviewer on harmattan didn't even work properly?00:56
hardakerit really doesn't.00:56
ajalkanewhat's its' major malfunction?00:57
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TSCHAKeeehas anyone heard anything about a firmware update for the n950?00:57
TSCHAKeeeyou those last few things missing? ;)00:58
hardakerIt, um launches a very x-looking window and doesn't look like it works at all.00:58
hardakerI figured it was just my qml file though.00:58
hardakerI tried it in 5 seconds and figured I'd debug later, but haven't.00:58
hardakerapparently it's not just me.00:58
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ajalkaneTSCHAKeee: last thing heard that firmware with third party apps out when n9 firmware is release ready00:58
TSCHAKeeei'm still very depressed that the N9 will not be readily available in the States00:59
TSCHAKeeeit's gonna cost a fortune getting it on the grey market00:59
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mfilipeit will be release in Brazil near of R$2000,00 ( U$1200,00) :S01:00
ajalkaneTSCHAKeee: I do think it will be available during 2012, but grey market is what you need if you want it ASAP. The Elopcalypse can't last long.01:00
mfilipevery expensive01:00
TSCHAKeeeyup, i'm hearing similar quotes from other places01:00
TSCHAKeeenext time i see qgil, i'm just telling him i'm keeping the phone and i'll take the monetary hit :P01:01
javispedroajalkane: it will last long enough to bring the company to its kness01:02
TSCHAKeeeso angry... developing apps for a phone that....nobody will ever see.01:02
TSCHAKeeei feel like an Amiga user again01:02
javispedroTSCHAKeee: or a ... wait for it ... maemo developer!01:02
antman8969ooooh snap01:02
TSCHAKeeeand it is... the N9/N950 are the best devices nokia have ever developed01:03
ajalkanejavispedro: That's true. I have no idea what kind of imbeciles the board of directors are filled with, or there's something behind the scenes that's not revealed.01:03
TSCHAKeeethat's why I want to cry.01:03
TSCHAKeeeajalkane: they're being very short term.. right now, Android is the juggernaut01:03
ajalkaneNokia's only chance is that Symbian/N9/S40 will sell enough in Europe and developing nations that Nokia survives Elop.01:04
TSCHAKeeeand the cell guys who haven't gone Android (not counting Apple), are trying to find their own form of relevance.01:04
antman8969lol it's definitely the "behind the scenes" option... I don't see how this wasnt a covert M$ takeover01:04
TSCHAKeeeSymbian has spent the last two years rapidly eroding01:05
TSCHAKeeei mean, dear god, I haven't seen a market share decline that hard, since MS-DOS overtook CP/M after 1984.01:05
ajalkaneSymbian is eroding, but it can still bring in some cash.01:05
antman8969I kind of hope nokia fails now, I would really hate to see people using Microsoft phones01:05
TSCHAKeeeand from 1984, to 1987, CP/M completely died.01:05
mfilipeI have a Nokia 5800 that only cellphone that I adapted without problem... I like the Meego concept but I don't see advantage to buy N9 :(01:06
mfilipeit is Symbian01:06
TSCHAKeeeN9 is not Symbian.01:06
mfilipenokia 580001:06
antman8969well, theres no point in buying anything nokia until wp7 gets rolling01:07
antman8969and even then, it's a gamble until after a year or so01:07
antman8969but why suport M$??01:07
javispedroantman8969: and when wp7 gets rolling, there's even less point.01:07
ajalkaneMy last phone before N950 was N95. It was great phone when it came out. Nothing after that, before N9/N950 interested me. I know I'll never buy WP phones. It's android if Nokia fucks itself.01:07
antman8969I'm interested in whats to come... Android isn't really that bad, but it's just not attractive coming from maemo01:08
mfilipeI don't found a yet a Android without problems... or you can't update or the battery life is very short or the hardware doesn't support correctly the so01:09
ajalkaneAndroid is not exciting like MeeGo/Maemo. But it'll do.01:09
antman8969pretty much ajalkane thats where I am. I'll do it till theres a better option01:09
antman8969the meego phone ux needs work too01:10
antman8969maybe they can legislate swipe away from Nokia :)01:10
rm_workyeah, here's hoping for a decent meego phone by the time my n950 breaks01:17
ajalkanesleep time01:18
antman8969recertied moto xoom for 400 on newegg
antman8969for some reason being sold with a linksys router?01:19
antman8969Does anyone here have a tablet that can make a case for why anyone should have one?01:20
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ieatlintthat link points to earbuds01:47
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ieatlinthaha, i like that the system info app is so happy to display your imsi01:51
SpeedEvilYou mean IMEI?01:51
ieatlintno, imsi01:51
ieatlintimei too01:51
ieatlintyeah, and probably not the best idea01:51
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ieatlintit's good to know that i just installed an app from a publisher other than nokia, with no security notice of any kind, that can access my IMSI01:52
ieatlintalso, we'll all be pleased to see this item in the store: "Justin Bieber Videos - The best videos and songs from Justin Bieber.  This is not the official app."01:57
javispedroieatlint: what, you thought aegis was there for your own protection?01:58
ieatlintin part, yes01:58
javispedroit is way too coarse grained for that in the current iteration01:58
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javispedroone thing I do not understand is why harmattan doesn't have a ripple effect on figer down or similar02:11
javispedrothe capacitive screen being so sucky, it would help.02:11
MohammadAGiOS doesn't have a ripple effect02:17
Elleois the store supposed to be working now?02:34
Elleoafter updating it I now just get either a page timeout style error, or it crashes02:35
ieatlintworks here02:36
Elleoperhaps it doesn't like the fact that I don't have a sim in there02:37
Elleoalthough I don't see why it should care02:37
ieatlintjust retries, now getting connection errors02:37
ieatlintsounds like nokia servers might be having issues02:37
Elleoah02:37 shows a maintenance page02:38
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hardakerElleo: fyi, when it first updated for me earlier today it loaded data.  There were a lot of items in it that were also in the n900 version of the store.  but the download button didn't work.  But it was good to see "stuff".03:08
Elleoyeah, encouraging that it's moving forwards at least03:09
javispedrohardaker: you need a nokia account for the download button to work03:10
ieatlintyeah, it worked for me03:10
Elleopresumably the same procedure applies to adding software to it as for the n900/other phones (whatever that procedure is)03:10
javispedroyou can login on the tab with "small person"  icon03:10
ieatlintwell, the store is down right now03:14
ieatlintwhich is either planned maintenance being 3:15am in finland, or someone who's on call having a very bad night03:15
javispedrowhy do you think they care03:16
hardakerjavispedro: I have one.03:16
ieatlintbecause it's down for all devices03:16
hardakerjavispedro: but, um, it should at least prompt you if you don't have one.03:16
ieatlintand nokia makes a decent amount of money on sales03:16
javispedroieatlint: not for wp7 ones, so Elop is happy.03:16
ieatlintuh, what makes you think there isn't a store for wp7 phones?03:16
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javispedrooh, I'm sure it is, I'm just saying it probably won't be hosted by Nokia but rather by MS.03:17
MohammadAGcause there's already the Windows Marketplace so they don't need ovi03:17
* ieatlint shrugs03:17
ieatlintwe don't really know what they're plans are on that front03:18
ieatlintanyway, the ovi store is down03:18
MohammadAGwe know they're on their way to their death03:18
javispedrobut is also down =)03:18
MohammadAGkilling the N9 in the US was a bad move03:18
javispedrotomorrow morning the site will be back up with Microsoft branding03:18
MohammadAGMicrovi store03:19
ieatlintsounds convincing to me03:19
hardakerthe store will have one option "downgrade to wp7 -- $199"03:19
javispedrook, just for fun I googled "Microsoft Ovi" and the first hit is to Ovi Store with the following title:03:20
javispedro"Ovi Store: Download Microsoft Communicator and many other games ..."03:20
javispedroyes, that's the only sane way you can classify Microsoft apps: as toys.03:20
hardakertag line: "security holes are not just for your desktop any more!!!"03:20
ieatlinthuh, Nokia is seemingly blaming Nokia US for no N9 in the states: "At this time we will not be making it available in the US. Nokia takes a market by market approach to product rollout, and each country makes its own decisions about which products to introduce from those available. Decisions are based on an assessment of existing and upcoming products that make up Nokia’s extensive product portfolio and the best way in which to address local mark03:35
ieatlintet opportunities.03:35
wmaronenot hard to see03:45
wmaroneisn't the head of Nokia US also from Microsoft?03:45
* SpeedEvil realises that any tiny chance ofgetting a n9 for n900 warranty repair in the UK has probably evaporated.03:45
wmaroneno way in hell he's letting anything not WP7 out the door in the US03:46
javispedrolook at that evil laugh03:46
ieatlinti'm pretty sure i need to get a better evil laugh if i want to be rich03:53
* javispedro yawns04:00
ieatlinti kind of get the impression that executives act more like day traders these days.. they make quick impulsive decisions that result in short term benefits, and then leave with a nice severance package when shit goes to hell04:02
ieatlintalthough the last nokia ceo also sucked, and they waited too long to sack him04:02
hardakerthey had to wait for a while to find someone worse.  It wasn't easy.04:03
ieatlintthat can't be true with all those unemployed wall street execs04:05
* SpeedEvil wonders if there is an applications form for the next CEO.04:07
SpeedEvilI could do with a few millions for some hours a week work.04:08
javispedroieatlint: it sucked? well, he created maemo didn't he? ;)04:08
ieatlintno, he just didn't tell them no, and then let it stay sidelined04:08
GeneralAntillesieatlint, blaming the US division.04:09
javispedroand for a while even let us believe it was going to be nokia's top OS.04:09
GeneralAntillesWe should all write him letters telling him how crappy he is.04:09
ieatlinti can go throw eggs at the local nokia campus04:10
wmaroneieatlint: careful, you might hit quim04:10
javispedroieatlint: hasn't it been closed, liquidated and auctioned yet?04:10
javispedro(the campus, not the CEO)04:10
javispedroalthough I wish they'd liquidate the CEO.04:10
ieatlintwmarone: nah, i know quim, he'd be standing next to me throwing eggs if he didn't have such a good worth ethic04:10
ieatlintjavispedro: nope, in fact they just built a new building for the campus and moved last december04:11
javispedroieatlint: are the Microsoft logos clearly visible or are they hiding them for the time being?04:11
ieatlinthah :P04:12
javispedroI think I even heard Ballmer mention how SF climate is so much better.04:13
* ieatlint agrees04:14
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javispedrodang it04:16
javispedromy TI pass expired or something04:17
* javispedro did not even realize they had such a policy04:17
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SpeedEvilThere is lots of random crap in this filesystem.04:32
SpeedEvilValgrind, video-encoding-testapp04:32
ieatlintthere's a hidden file that contains a URL that gets you a free N9 if you can find it04:33
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javispedrothere's a more hidden file that says accepting the contract for the free n9 in the first hidden file results in stephen elop being able to harvest your organs for his immortality project04:43
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* GAN900 sighs.06:52
GAN900Slow slides to irrelevance suck.06:52
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ScifigI have a mkdir /home/user/.shake2skip command in a shell script. I am calling that script using "exec /usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l -a UID::user "exec /opt/shake2skip/bin/"".07:27
ScifigThe command works fine in terminal. But when I include it in an init script it fails with operation not permitted error for mkdir07:28
ScifigHow do I get around this?07:28
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antman8969instead of "exec" try using "sh"07:38
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antman8969that may get it to work, but I don't think it's condoned as the official fix07:38
antman8969I think it's an aegis hash problem07:38
Scifigantman8969, Thanks will try. The sh file is deployed using as part of the .deb though.07:41
antman8969yea I know, and still07:41
antman8969I couldn't get mine to run properly either07:42
antman8969 I know that if you run them with sh it'll work, I just don't know what aegis wants to run them on their own07:42
antman8969I'm sure the answer is in the harmattan-dev site07:42
Scifigchanged to ....."sh /opt/shake2skip/bin/". Didn't solve it.07:44
ScifigThe script is being run as "nobody"07:45
Scifig5800 nobody   -sh -c sh /opt/shake2skip/bin/shake2skip.sh07:45
Scifig^^ ps output07:45
antman8969now that I think about it, the user of my script didnt matter, so it was ok for nobody to run it07:45
antman8969if thats the case then I'm not sure07:46
ScifigIf I run the command in terminal as root (not devel-su) it works fine. But if it is called as part of init script it fails.07:47
ScifigI still can't believe that root can't create a freaking folder in user folder.07:47
antman8969yea root is only useful for becoming other users and installing things07:49
antman8969its really dumb07:50
ScifigCreating an aegis manifest file with credential as UID:user solved it. And I thought I could get away from aegis.08:29
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antman8969noted, thanks scifig09:08
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ScifigBtw will  the retail N9s have devel-su. Can users switch to root?09:10
antman8969dodubt it09:10
antman8969actually, almost certainly not09:10
ScifigThought so.09:12
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arfollso does anyone know how to convert spec/yaml to dsc in a semi auto way?09:58
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Arkenoi"We save the best phones for countries with AAA credit ratings."10:33
maxwwho is 'we'?10:34
divan_playing with call-ui css, trying to make bigger avatar image. Don't know how to relayout caller name and status label (need to put into vertical layout) and how to change/remove this squircle  shape around avatar.10:45
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* RST38h moos evilly10:48
RST38hSo, gentlemen, what is new and exciting?10:49
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RST38hheya smoku10:52
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smokuhi RST38h11:04
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wazdhello all11:16
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RST38hwazd: moo11:22
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kkitoWhy I get a Service currently unavailable when trying to connect to Nokia account with the n950?11:41
kkitois the sim card requiered to be able to login?11:41
aslaniwait just a second...11:41
divan_kkito, have the same problem, and reflashing didn't help me11:42
aslaniread it in full, you probably can find a solution in there, also check the bug status11:42 bug:
kkitook thhx very much :)11:43
kkitogonan to read the full post11:43
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kkitoDo you know if it is possible to deactivate the security code? Because I've activated it but now i ccannot deactivate it :( and it is really annoying, because everytime that I unklock the device i need to enter the code ...11:51
aslanido you have mail/calendar sync on?11:52
aslaniif so, no :(11:52
aslaniyeah, it's weird11:52
pancakedata is ciphered with that key and cannot be unprotected or what?11:52
aslanisomething along those lines :)11:52
aslanialso it's erases your dara if you get it wrong (enough times)11:53
pancakedoes it warns?11:53
aslani*data, and no11:54
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spenapkkito, settings -> security -> device lock -> autolock, and set it as off12:06
spenapthat _should_ work12:06
kkitospenap, I can only select No delay12:06
kkitois because of I have enabled Mail for exchange sync ?12:07
spenapI also have MfE, kkito, so I don't think that's the problem. Have you set up the device as non-provisionable ?12:08
spenap(I didn't)12:08
spenapother than that, reboot? and check if the option comes back?12:08
kkitospenap, I don't know what non-provisionable is, and i 've rebooted so many times but I cannot unlock it :(12:09
kkitoi will try to deactivate the autosync12:09
kkitoOk, The mail 4 exchange has not set the non-provisionable device option12:11
kkitothats weird :(12:13
kkitoi trhink that i will relfash the device12:14
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Venemo_N950frals, are you here?12:19
* alterego yawns12:20
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* alterego belches12:23
Venemo_N950frals, facebook-meego is running at the point where the facebook app thinks that "network is unavailable". 'pidof facebook-meego' returns a value.12:24
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wazdfor those who's interested, I've fixed shitty applications background:
pancakedualscreen? ;D12:33
wazdpancake: don't tell anyone :P12:34
RST38hwazd: bookreader, now in stereo? =)12:36
pancakeanyone in Finland with Sonera?12:36
RST38hwazd: BTW, interested in doing a few splash screens? =)12:37
wazdRST38h: no& :D12:38
wazdRST38h: just kidding, sure :)12:38
wazd <- files with instructions12:39
RST38hwazd: ah you have fixed the background to be pure white =)12:43
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wazdRST38h: yep :)12:45
RST38hwazd: Anyway, if you feel like it, and have some time, the Speccy, fMSX, all may need splashscreens12:46
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RST38hwazd: (btw, put proper attribution to yourself in the corner =))12:47
wazdRST38h: ok, but I guess I'll finish 84+ skin first12:47
Venemo_N950RST38h, have you befriended QML since last we talked? :)12:47
RST38hwazd: yea, it is the only thing stopping the current ati85 rrelease12:47
RST38hVenemo: "befriended" is sucha cute euphemism...12:47
RST38hVenemo: but yes, I have basically done some semblance of the UI. takes long time to load though, and for some reason I cannot reuse the view for the second run (need to recreate it again)12:48
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seifhey guys12:56
seifwhen is a new image coming out12:56
kimjufor n950/harmattan? when nokia decides to release one. no official info is given, so best guess is about the time that N9 hits the stores.12:59
Venemo_N950RST38h, hmmm13:00
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Venemo_N950~seen fiferboy13:02
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infobotfiferboy <~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 12h 54m 55s ago, saying: 'Got to go, talk later'.13:02
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lcukmorning \o13:27
wazdlcuk: heya13:29
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wazdjavispedro: o/13:32
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kkitoI do not remmeber who was helping me before, but reflashing the device fixed all the problems. Thank you very much!13:46
aslanino problem :) nice to hear that13:47
kkitooh, but it seems that apps from store cannot be installed due to dependencies problems :?13:48
aslaniyeah, that's until new image comes out from nokia13:49
aslanitry some other apps from there13:49
aslanistuff like "compass" will not work13:49
kkitoI try to install battery monitor app but it didnt work13:49
wazdElements worked :P13:50
aslanihow about funny catz, the best app so far ;)13:50
kkito:) installing funny catz XD13:51
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Arkenoia guy from nokia promised me to flash latest non-public firmware to my n95013:58
Arkenoii should try13:58
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wazdArkenoi: hmm? :)14:07
wazdArkenoi: you've fascinated him with your hat? :D14:07
Arkenoii guess so :-)14:07
Arkenoihe confirmed n950 firmwares are being released synchronous to n9, but not published14:08
wazdany reason?14:08
Arkenoiuntil n9 release14:08
Arkenoidon't know :-)14:08
TronicIt's a no-brainer, really.14:12
TronicNokia doesn't want competitors (who most certainly have access to N950) copying their features too soon.14:12
* RST38h rotfls14:13
RST38ha no-brainer indeed...14:13
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javispedrothey are going to copy how the fmrx is implemented!14:33
wazdjavispedro: oh wait :D14:34
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thpis is possible to get only Madde for Harmattan without the full SDK / Scratchbox?14:43
RST38hthp: install then strip? =)14:43
RST38hdoesn;t it come as a separate .deb package on Linux though?14:44
thpcould be. where's the link?14:44
RST38h(probably a script)14:45
thpwell then. let's download a gig or two of stuff again14:47
thpthanks for the link, though - seems to be the thing that i need14:48
RST38htoo large though14:48
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* SpeedEvil finds latest random thing in fs. Gnuplot.14:51
javispedrointerestingly the number of weird packages on the n950 has increased a lot14:53
javispedroprobably helped becaused of the fact the rootfs no longer has to fit in 25614:53
SpeedEvilPossibly will be pruned14:53
alteregoI like the fact it has image macgick installed by default :D14:54
SpeedEvilFound that. 'animate'14:54
javispedrothat was the first nonQt program I ran14:54
RST38hjavispedr: we have a developer edition14:54
SpeedEvilyeah - there is a list under the developer mode switch of stuff that's installed14:54
RST38hjavispedro: has got openssh, nano, and even gdb installed14:54
alteregoMakes for some interesting possibilities ities with QML14:54
javispedrohave to say that shmerl had a nice idea with the runtime hashing tool14:57
* javispedro is starting to use it more than entirely disabling aegis14:57
SpeedEvilAn on-device hashgen?14:57
javispedroSpeedEvil: yep14:58
alteregoI still miss having a central "extras" repository.15:01
javispedrothere's that thing rzr made15:01
alteregoI want to do things like "apt-get install screen" and expect it to actually be there ..15:01
RST38hanyone can bring such a repo15:02
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alteregoWell, I would, if I had the time15:03
RST38hdoes not require time15:03
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alteregoI'm just wondering whether we can't pursuade someone to use the infra ..15:03
javispedrowell you need to learn reprepro at least15:03
javispedroor similar15:03
RST38has far as I understood, all you need is a linux server15:03
RST38hI tried compiling reprepro on FreeBSD but failed, too linux-specific15:03
spenapalterego, this is the repo rzr set up:
spenapwhich has screen, btw15:04
javispedroRST38h: welcome to the OSS world post-lennart15:04
spenapand where some of us are integrating our stuff15:04
javispedroRST38h: though,
RST38hjavispedro: ah, cool15:07
RST38hjavispedro: I kinda suspect it will require some compat libraries though15:08
RST38hbtw, google+ is recommending me to include Lennart into a circle =)15:08
javispedrois it a Circle Of Doom?15:08
RST38hjavispedro: probably just a circle of bozos15:09
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TronicIs Pinball Fantasies supposed to have sound/music?15:26
TronicI hear nothing.15:26
thpTronic: maybe you have your device set to silent/vibrate?15:26
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thpargh. that stupid qt sdk online installer downloads stuff to /tmp which is too small in my case15:34
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Tronicthp: That was it, wonder how I missed it :O15:48
kkitohey, I enabled automatic time update but the detected time zone is not correct16:00
kkitoIs anyone experiencing the same?16:01
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divan_finally managed how to make big avatar while calling16:23
divan_But still can't handle name label - seems it uses horizontal layout and it's hardcoded :(16:24
SpeedEvilkkito: Doen'st work at all for me.16:24
SpeedEvilMy provider doesn't transmit time.16:25
fiferboydivan_: How are you changing it? Can you touch z-order?16:25
divan_fiferboy, I've tried to play with z-index, but still no luck16:26
fiferboyOh yeah, it would be using MTF wouldn't it?16:26
divan_fiferboy, first part is simply edit .css file, second one is to replace mask/frame-images for avatar and regenerate cache files.16:27
divan_fiferboy, I'll write it down somewhere on wiki a bit later16:27
divan_also, need to find whether 192x192 maximum avatar size is configurable.16:28
Jaffadivan_: That's great.16:33
Jaffadivan_: Will make Hermes actually useful ;-)16:33
fiferboydivan_, Jaffa: Maybe something (Hermes?) could overlay the display name on the image?16:34
divan_fiferboy, well, all avatars are stored in ~/.cache/contacts/photos/. But I don't like the idea of overlaying the name. Not only name label is affected, but call status label also.16:35
divan_I'm afraid it will require a bit of binary patching to relayout widgets vertically.16:36
fiferboydivan_: Ah, overlay does not sound like a good idea then16:37
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kkitoDo you know why when an email for exchange accout is configured, the device lock/autolock cannot be set to off?16:55
kimjucommon corporate requirements, if you use mfe then you must have device lock.16:56
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kkitokimju: that is really annoying, because is the only way to sync with google, but i don't want to set the unlock passwd every time that I unlock the device :(16:58
fiferboykkito: There is something in the mail configuration for "provisionable" IIRC16:59
kkitoWhen I am driving, I use the n950 audo BT to play music using the car speakers etc. and every time that i want to search for a song, or change it etc i need to insert the password... It is dangerous :P17:00
kkitofiferboy: What does it do?17:00
* SpeedEvil completely fails to re-setup his home network after flashing.17:00
SpeedEvilHas anyone got a static-IP wifi net setup properly?17:01
divan_SpeedEvil, ad-hoc, yes17:01
SpeedEvilI get a helpful box 'somethings wrong with the internet connection'17:01
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djszapihi fiferboy17:03
SpeedEvilSIgh - I hate this. Reenter and it works.17:07
fiferboykkito: Changing it should let you bypass the lock (I think)17:07
fiferboyHi djszapi17:07
GAN900SpeedEvil, old firmwares are sucky.17:08
SpeedEvilGAN900: 22-617:08
GAN900Yes, old.17:08
SpeedEvilAnd yes.17:08
* SpeedEvil is willing to sign NDAs. :)17:08
djszapififerboy: how are you ?17:08
SpeedEvil'service currently unavailable' - still - after flashing on nokia account signin.17:09
fiferboydjszapi: Doing good, you?17:09
fiferboydjszapi: Any luck with table view?17:09
wazd <- Call UI should look like this :)17:10
divan_SpeedEvil, the same for me :(17:10
kkitofiferboy: thx ! It works17:10
fiferboykkito: Excellent, I thought I had read that somewhere :D17:11
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SpeedEvildivan: were you in the last round of n950s?17:16
GAN900wazd, yeah, I don't get the tiny avatars17:16
wazdGAN900: well, maybe they just didn't finish it17:17
MohammadAGwhen's the new fw coming out again?17:18
fiferboyMohammadAG: You optimist17:18
wazdMohammadAG: never? :P17:18
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fiferboyMohammadAG: I remember hearing speculation early on that it would be just after the N9 release17:26
fiferboyNo idea how that may have changed at this point17:26
MohammadAGfiferboy, I expected one more developer edition before that17:26
MohammadAGwazd, got the designs ready? :P17:26
divan_SpeedEvil, nope, in the first one. But got device in the end of July17:26
javispedroit's never coming, elop will eventually reduce the set of countries where the N9 will launch to "Sealand".17:27
GAN900fiferboy, it's after the N9's US release.17:27
MohammadAGGAN900, yay17:27
TSCHAKeeeor more accurately, Sealab.17:27
SpeedEvilHas anyone had success with n950, and making a new ovi account for it?17:27
SpeedEvilRather than using old ones?17:28
GAN900and it'll just end up eaten by a Sea Ray.17:28
MohammadAGOld ones working fine for me17:28
GAN900SpeedEvil, old here.17:28
macmaNSpeedEvil: i still cant use neither the old or create new17:28
wazdMohammadAG: I thought that we need proper file manager instead of just file sender17:28
macmaNi think some cert or something is b0rken on the device that just kills the connection17:28
GAN900New store doesn't work for me, though.17:28
wazdMohammadAG: but that's up to you to decide :)17:28
divan_wazd, +117:29
wazdMohammadAG: I guess you're a pretty busy man to work on such projects :P17:29
MohammadAGwazd, I can give you a file manager in Qt/C++ in one day17:30
MohammadAGQML though... no idea17:30
macmaNlol now my settings -> applications doesnt show a single package17:30
macmaN"no software installations"17:30
macmaNsomething gets royally borked with pkgmgrd or whatnot17:31
wazdMohammadAG: hehe, then I'll create some mockups for it and you'll decide if you can make it or not :)17:31
TSCHAKeee...which is ironically more right than wrong....17:31
kkitoDo you know how to add a google talk/jabber account in the n950 ?17:33
wazdkkito: no17:34
kkitothere is any conversation/telepathy plugin for jabber?17:34
fiferboykkito: Can't, unfortunately17:34
fiferboyThe telepathy is there (I think), but the account configuration isn't17:34
macmaNoooh wow. after a fresh reboot, i see an update in the settings updater.17:34
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javispedroI'm getting interrupts on wl1273 :) -- but in bt mode, not fmrx :S17:35
kkitofiferboy: perhaps it can be configured by editing some configuration file... ?17:35
djszapijavispedro: your post is funny :)17:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer2: seems that builtin firmware uses wl1273 codec for BT _only_ when using HFP not A2DP17:36
javispedrohi djszapi17:36
javispedrodjszapi: funny in what sense? :)17:36
fiferboykkito: I haven't heard of anyone trying that, but there might be more missing17:36
djszapiI do not like your tone at all17:36
djszapijavispedro: Also, I cannot reproduce this in the latest images:
TSCHAKeeeI got a store update.17:37
djszapijavispedro: so please consider that you are using a *very* old image before being harsh17:37
javispedrodjszapi: I am not harsh -- this entire method depends on develsh being present.17:38
javispedro(also, it's no wonder the .ko doesn' work in a later image, symbol locations are hardcoded)17:38
kkitojavispedro: what is wrong with BT? It works flawlessly for me, Bluetooth audio and handsfree17:38
javispedrokkito: we are just trying to guess how it works to enable fmrx. on the n950 fmrx and BT are on the same chip17:39
djszapijavispedro: people did not like your tone inside Nokia either.17:39
javispedrodjszapi: qgil retweeted it17:39
djszapiimo, qgil did not work on security.17:40
kkitojavispedro: nice :) good luck17:41
kkitodo you know how to change the user agent from the default browser?17:42
javispedrotbh not :P17:42
GAN900djszapi, do you have more productive things to be doing than dumping on people?17:44
GAN900Frankly I'm not sure anybody here is all that concerned about what anonymous Nokians like or dislike.17:45
djszapiGAN900: asking for help is not a problem, but writing such a post, it is not respectful. Mainly because *everybody* knows it is an old image.17:49
djszapiwe got exopc here yesterday @ DS, and meego does not really work...17:50
djszapihowever it is a new version. I would not still write such a post.17:50
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javispedrodjszapi: note how everyone agrees in that "this must be intentional". no one is really saying that this means the system was designed by a bunch of morons.17:52
djszapiexcept that is not intentional.17:53
djszapi* it is17:53
GeneralAntillesdjszapi, good for you.17:53
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djszapiGeneralAntilles: what is good for me ? :)17:54
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* javispedro now ponders about his "is not intentional" line18:01
GeneralAntillesI hate that keeps being described as an "app store"18:02
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fiferboyI hope it is going to be much more than that18:05
fiferboyIt probably *should* be the community focal point18:05
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javispedrocuriously enough, the N950 has separate headphone/speaker DACs18:07
javispedroexposed as different alsa devices even18:08
javispedroso from sw you can probably output an audio stream to speakers and a different one to headphones18:08
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Venemo_N950fiferboy, it seems that the btrfs /home partition on my laptop has been borked...18:17
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Yikes!18:25
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Venemo_N950fiferboy, seems that btrfs doesn't like power failures.18:35
Venemo_N950I don't understand how a filesystem designed for fault tolerance can not tolerate a power failure18:36
mgedminI suppose "designed for" doesn't guarantee there are no bugs18:38
mgedminthis is software, after all18:38
mgedmin"stress-tested for many years, with all found bugs fixed" would make me trust it, if the number of found bugs declined over time18:39
* javispedro curses heavily for not being able to understand what exactly the friggin wl1273 does18:49
javispedronow I get audio from it, but ALL I get is BT audio, no matter if I set it to fmrx or even turn it off. BT audio. Forever.18:50
Venemo_N950javispedro, BT audio? what's that18:51
javispedromore accurately HFP/SCO18:52
MohammadAGVenemo_N950, I thought btrfs is more suited for flashes18:53
MohammadAGrather than laptop HDDs18:53
MohammadAGjavispedro, screw fmrx, work on the fmtx already18:53
javispedroMohammadAG: will probably never work on the N95018:53
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MohammadAGjavispedro, why?18:56
Venemo_N950because it is not connected to anything?18:57
MohammadAGweak point18:57
javispedrothe rumour around that it has no antenna, plus they marked is a non working on the board.c kernel file18:57
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javispedro*marked it as non working.18:57
MohammadAGwasn't the same done to hostmode on the N900? :P18:58
javispedrobut on the sample it says fmrx should work18:59
javispedroeither way, the end result is the same issue I currently have with rx.19:00
javispedros/sample/same place19:03
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SpeedEvilmgedmin: A lot of the assumptions that filesystem designers like to make aren't always followed by real hardware19:07
SpeedEvilmgedmin: Block reordering in writes, for example, and write caches both make them sad pandas.19:07
Venemo_N950javispedro, what if we replaced the kernel with one in which it wasn't marked non-working19:08
javispedroIMO, it won't work.19:08
javispedroalso, I somehow have a bad feeling of increasing tx power if there's no antenna.19:09
SpeedEvilAt best, you may get some reception when the phone is jammed up _right_ next to the reciever, but that's probably unlikely19:09
SpeedEvilas if the chip is inside a RF can, as it likely will be, there will be no reception.19:09
SpeedEviljavispedro: Not an issue.19:09
SpeedEvilThe maximum transmit power is some hundreds of microwatts (into the antenna)19:09
Venemo_N950soo... do we have to solder it for ourselves?19:10
SpeedEvilThere are several issues.19:10
SpeedEvilA) Are required components on the board.19:10
SpeedEvilB) Is the antennae there in  the form of a stub, or is the antenna pin simply unconnected19:11
SpeedEvilC) Is it actually turned off in the radio chip or its firmware.19:11
hiemanshuhey Venemo_N950 did you push the code yet?19:12
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, yes, just a minute ago19:12
Venemo_N950I needed btrfs-zero-log /dev/sda619:12
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: ah awesome, I'll compile it and such19:12
Venemo_N950fiferboy, woohoo... you can have a look at da code19:13
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fiferboyVenemo_N950: Going to pull it now19:15
Venemo_N950ok fiferboy19:15
Venemohey Venemo_N950 :)19:21
Venemo_N950hey Venemo19:22
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Is there an icclient-qt package somewhere if I want to try building?19:23
Venemoyes. in RzR's repo there is the package and its -dev package too19:24
Venemothat is where I got it from19:24
fiferboyAh yes, thanks!19:24
Venemothe source is
VenemoI use some version from the 0.5 or whatever branch (at least the package is 0.5.x)19:25
Venemothe whole lib is undergoing a major rewrite, expected to be released in some months (if ever)19:27
Venemoso the author recommended me to stay with this old version until then.19:27
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Venemohey djszapi19:31
djszapiheya, how is stuff ? :)19:32
Venemodjszapi, there is a working version of the IRC client, currently still in development and hardcoded to Freenode only19:32
hiemanshunicely rolled19:32
Venemo_N950djszapi, wanna try?19:33
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djszapiVenemo: sorry, I am at the desktop summit, still19:34
djszapimaybe next week19:34
hiemanshudjszapi: did you attend the intel appup?19:35
Venemofiferboy, it still has issues of course, so there is plenty to work on if you're interested in helping out19:36
djszapihiemanshu: my second exopc, that I use for nothing19:37
djszapiI will sent it actually back oslt.19:37
djszapi* send19:37
fiferboyVenemo: Do you have a package anywhere?19:37
hiemanshudjszapi: gah, send it to me, I can use it for :P19:37
hiemanshuwho doesn't like free devices :P19:38
Venemofiferboy, of what?19:38
djszapiyou can also pay the fee if they realize it, cannot you ? ;)19:38
djszapiThey actually caught one guy selling it on e-bay19:38
hiemanshudjszapi: I can use it for dev* I am not going to sell em19:38
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fiferboyVenemo: irc-chatter19:39
Venemofiferboy, doesn't Qt Creator create one for you?19:39
djszapihiemanshu: I think you slightly misunderstood, I cannot hand it over19:39
hiemanshudjszapi: I know19:39
hiemanshuI was just kidding :P19:39
djszapiwell, I am gonna send it back.19:40
djszapiThere are so many hackers they can give it to.19:40
hiemanshuif only this stupid work hadn't stopped me, I would have been there at DS too, I was getting sponsored19:40
Venemodjszapi, why did you accept it then?19:40
djszapiI was trying out plasma-active, it worked, period.19:40
fiferboyVenemo: Yes, but Qt Creator doesn't know where ircclient-qt is19:40
lcukdjszapi, not only hackers, but caring professional developers too!19:40
djszapiVenemo: because I tried out plasma-active as aforementioned.19:40
hiemanshufiferboy: INCLUDEPATH19:40
djszapilcuk hey hey :)19:41
Venemohiemanshu, no need for that19:41
Venemofiferboy, download both libircclient-qt and libircclient-qt-dev from
Venemofiferboy, and install them into MADDE via 'mad-admin xdpkg -i'19:41
Venemofiferboy, then Qt Creator _WILL_ know.19:41
Venemohiemanshu, this is true for your too19:41
hiemanshuVenemo: ah ok, I'll do that19:42
Venemobefore you ask, 'mad-admin' is in ~/QtSDK/Madde/madbin/19:42
fiferboyVenemo: Cool, thanks19:42
Venemofiferboy, FYI, the same method works for Fremantle's MADDE. and there is also 'xrpm' for RPM-based MeeGo images19:43
fiferboyVenemo: I never knew this19:45
Venemofiferboy, how did you install libs into your SDK then? :) (or did you not use the Qt SDK at all?) :)19:45
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djszapihi rzr, opensource or die ? :D19:50
Venemohey rzr :)19:52
Venemofiferboy, forgot to mention, you also need to install libircclient-qt (but NOT the -dev) to the device19:52
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Venemohiemanshu, multi-server support is not far away, I only need to implement a special listmodel class for it19:56
Venemowhat is the size of the icons in Harmattan?20:00
fiferboyVenemo: So far I haven't needed libs that aren't preinstalled :)20:01
Venemofiferboy, ah, I understand :)20:01
rzrhi guys20:02
Venemohi rzr20:02
rzri still owe you a git package20:02
Venemorzr, are you insterested in having my IRC client in your repo, once it's completed?20:02
rzri have been busy on other stuff lately , promise i'll look at it :)20:02
rzrVenemo: sure20:02
rzrVenemo: i can build it even if its unfinished20:03
rzrtry at least20:03
Venemorzr, it currently doesn't have any packaging, nor icon, nor .desktop file20:03
rzris the source online ?20:03
Venemorzr, and it segfaults when you leave a channel, and it can't display /me messages, /commands don't work... etc... :P20:03
Venemorzr, of course it is online20:03
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Venemofiferboy, by the way, this may be also useful for you: (this is how I run the app)20:04
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fiferboyVenemo: Hehe, I wrote up a blurb about that on MKWN a little while back :)20:11
fiferboyVenemo: Yes, I don't like the entire package push method20:11
Venemofiferboy, gimme a link to that blurb20:11
Venemofiferboy, hah, thanks! very nice of you to write about my stuff :)20:13
rzrVenemo: could it support xmpp ? through bitlbee maybe20:14
Venemorzr, what is xmpp?20:14
fiferboyVenemo: Jabber20:15
Venemohow does it come together with IRC?20:16
kimjubitlbee is gateway software, client for xmpp (and few others), acting as irc server.20:16
kimjuso you can use those networks from irc client.20:17
Venemoah, I see20:17
Venemowell, I have not tested/optimized my app for that purpose20:17
Venemobut if anyone does, I'll definitely accept the code :P20:17
kimjushouldn't really require anything special from irc client.20:17
Venemoin that case, try it (preferably when the client is complete)20:18
kimjubut in a mobile device, it's probably better idea to use xmpp directly from native client20:18
VenemoI think there is (or will be) such a client in the built-in messaging app.20:19
kimjuirc and mobile is not a good compination, as it requires persistent connection. xmpp will work better when your connection is spotty.20:19
Venemoit's very annoying when the connection just disappears.20:20
rzr<Venemo> well, I have not tested/optimized my app for that purpos20:20
rzrno need20:20
rzrbilbee is an irc server :)20:20
rzrthat will connect to a jabber server and tranlate protocol20:21
Venemoabout disconnections, I definitely will need to handle that in a polite way. but I'm not dealing with it at all yet.20:21
Venemorzr, mhm20:21
rzrVenemo: if your irc client connect to localhost:666720:21
rzrthen it's done , the job is over :)20:22
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Venemorzr, well, it's currently hardcoded to freenode, but it will be possible to connect to a server which you define yourself.20:22
kimjuVenemo, does you app/the irc library handle server pings correcly? I saw that your _N950 persona was dropping out with ping timeout a lot.20:22
rzrthen just put that in a .config/file20:22
rzrthat = server port20:23
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Venemokimju, that is because I was in an area with very poor GSM signal.20:23
Venemokimju, it disconnected me often20:23
Venemokimju, I think the IRC lib I use can take care of that, but you're welcome to check it and find out :)20:24
kimjujust wondering.. :)20:24
kimjuI run irssi (and bitlbee) on my server with a real connection to internet, and just ssh there from where and what ever I happen to have at hand.20:24
rzrVenemo: i'll try to build bip also than one conect to several servers20:25
Venemorzr, all right20:26
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Venemokimju, well, a terminal IRC client could never be an option for me.20:28
VenemoI'm a guy who likes a shiny UI20:28
rzrbut it would be best if irc protocol is managed by the system20:29
rzrthere is a chat servicec over sip20:29
rzri never tested it20:29
rzranyone can im me20:29
Venemoand honestly, I enjoy making a shiny UI more than making the backend.20:29
* rzr : sip:rzr@ekiga.net20:29
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kimjuand for me text based ui for text based communication is enough :)20:29
* rzr thinks its a question of priorities, I need more a decent editor / filemanager than graphical irc client20:30
Venemowell, "Notes" app was all I needed so far :P20:30
rzrand a terminal that support cut and paste :)20:31
kimjurzr, c&p is on top of the terminal developer's to-do list.20:31
rzrcan we track that item ?20:31
kimjuI've been having conversation with him over email for some time now. I'm patching the terminal too (orientation locking etc)20:32
kimjubut the terminal is not his mail work item currently, afaik. so now release dates or anything like that..20:33
infobotkimju meant: but the terminal is not his mail work item currently, afaik. so no release dates or anything like that..20:34
kimjuand main, not mail. meh.20:34
rzrany of u own a n950 and will to open a free account ?20:36
rzri want to test sip text chatting ?20:38
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VenemoI'll be back later.20:39
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rzrhello Your_nick_here or there20:42
SpeedEvilIs the little compass thingy on the map app meant to indicate it's searching for GPS position?20:42
Your_nick_herejust texting irc-chatter on the n950 :)20:42
Your_nick_here/nick fiferboy_n95020:42
fiferboyHmm, don't know how to changes Nicks yet, obviously20:42
rzrwanna test sip chatting ?20:43
hardakersimply silly use of 2 n950s and an n900:
SpeedEvilNot bad.20:43
SpeedEvilLock inside seems to be a lot better than the n90020:43
SpeedEvilI'd rarely get a proper lock inside20:43
fiferboyrzr: Can't right now, unfortunately20:44
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kimjuhardaker, wet n950? how did that happen? and does it still work?20:45
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hardakerkimju: it arrived wet from DHL20:48
hardakerdripping wet.20:48
hardakeractually, after a few days it started working after I flashed it.20:48
hardaker*but* the power button doesn't work, so once the battery dies or it gets turned off for any reason you can't turn it back on.20:48
hardakerthey sent me another one, though, and I need to ship the dead one back.20:48
hardaker(flashing it, it turns out, allows you to turn it on without the powre button)20:48
rzrbitlbee wont be supported that soon , but bip could be20:49
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rzrcool bip just built !20:54
rzrVenemo: this way your client can connect to several irc server, and even if you close it it can restore history the day you'll restart it20:56
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SpeedEvilOk - the earlier firmware - week 15 - allowed the running of arbitrary binaries after aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec - this is no longer in the firmware - is there a way to enable this mode again?20:59
mgedminSpeedEvil, there is20:59
mgedmina nifty hack using custom kernel modules to override aegis protection21:00
SpeedEvilAh, that.21:00
javispedrobut --relaxed exec should also be in 22.21:00
SpeedEvilNot in the path21:01
javispedro/usr/sbin/ :)21:01
SpeedEvilIt _wasn't_ last time I checked.21:01
mgedminroot's path doesn't include sbin's, which is extremely silly but whatever21:01
SpeedEvilI guess someone sneaked ito my wireless net, and scp'd it on to make me look silly.21:01
mgedminthis is why you change the root password asap21:02
SpeedEvilyeah - done that now.21:02
SpeedEvilI wonder if maps working without login is a bug or a feature21:03
rzrkimju: i see u patched the rx5521:03
javispedroSpeedEvil: uh?21:03
rzrkimju: I planned to do that too21:03
javispedroSpeedEvil: also, yo udidn't fix the login issue?21:03
rzrlet me suggest my keystrokes21:03
SpeedEviljavispedro: Start maps - it pops up 'register now' window. switch back to the maps window, and tap randomly a few times on the screen - it comes to life21:04
SpeedEviljavispedro: No.21:04
SpeedEviljavispedro: Reflashed - nothing.21:04
SpeedEvilReflashing went without issue this time.21:04
* javispedro had to reflash twice =)21:05
javispedrowell, not21:05
javispedrotrying to remember, it initially worked, then aegis selfdestroyed and had to reflash, then accounts didn't work, then I reflashed again, and the first thing I did was add the account and it worked21:06
SpeedEvilFirst thing I tried to do too.21:07
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kimjurzr, ?21:08
kimjuah, that. the n950 seems to go by name rm-680 even in the xkb-data.21:10
kimjuand that package can not be replaced cleanly without breaking the ssu functionality, so I createt addon-package.21:11
rzrgood idea21:17
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rzrcan u comment my suggested shortcuts ?21:18
* SpeedEvil wonders about the n-aryness of the n-key rollover21:20
kimjuI'd do those a little differently. for example {} could be fn+shift + () and [] fn+shift+<>21:20
kimjuwell, currently I have ^ at fn+shift+<, but moving that wouldn't be a problem21:21
Venemohey again21:21
kimju~ and | I have at '* key21:21
* infobot && | I have at '* key = ???21:21
fiferboyVenemo: How do you change nicks in irc-chatter?21:21
rzri tried to reuse empty places21:21
Venemofiferboy, edit main.cpp21:21
fiferboyVenemo: :)21:21
fiferboyVenemo: Search the logs for "Your_nick_here" :D21:22
kimjurzr, I have tried to stay as close as the printed key map (english) as possible21:22
Venemofiferboy, I saw!21:22
Venemofiferboy, my main.cpp says "Venemo_N950" in that place21:22
fiferboyVenemo: It worked!21:22
Venemofiferboy, I'm glad :)21:22
Venemo[19:45] <-- Your_nick_here has left this channel ("Leaving this channel. (with IRC Chatter, the first MeeGo IRC client)").21:22
fiferboyVery nice interface so far, good work21:23
Venemoemphasis on: "with IRC Chatter, the first MeeGo IRC client"21:23
Venemothank you fiferboy21:23
Venemofiferboy, btw, your height expression doesn't take into account the case when the dialog is shown and the vkb is not in portrait.21:23
rzrkimju: i think i'll try to use your map , and if i cant i'll patch it my way :)21:24
fiferboyVenemo: The new one should o_O21:24
kimjurzr, I'll make a new version with those additions.21:24
rzrkimju: got ` <=  that one ?21:24
Venemofiferboy, you are welcome to fix it and file a merge request :P or if you're serious, I can give you commit access as well. :)21:24
kimjunot yet, still thinking where to put it. as well as ^21:24
fiferboyVenemo: If I have some time I will poke around at it21:25
fiferboyMerge requests are fine21:25
rzrkimju: if you do please split the files orig and path21:25
Venemorzr, N950 is not "RX-55", N950 is RM-68021:25
rzr'`' : shift+'21:26
Venemofiferboy, btw, I need only a handful of things to make a 0.1 release.21:26
rzrtab : Fn+Space / default: ctrl+i21:26
Venemofiferboy, one question I wanted to ask is how well understandable are the purpose of the tool buttons?21:26
kimjurzr, in '* I already have ' * | ~ (plain, shift, fn, fn+shift)21:27
fiferboyVenemo: Let me launch it again (with my new nick)21:28
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rzrkimju: ctrl+' maybe ?21:29
fiferboyVenemo: I take it a desktop file is on your list? :)21:29
Venemofiferboy, yes, and so is an icon21:29
kimjurzr, or fn+shift + numbers. those are all still free.21:29
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fiferboy_n950Venemo: chan list icon is a bit unclear21:30
Venemofiferboy_n950, what do you think about userlist/autocomplete/send/join icons?21:31
fiferboy_n950Venemo, just found out about the autocomplete21:32
fiferboy_n950very useful, though not immediately obvious to me21:32
Venemofiferboy_n950, ever since I appended the ', ' it became buggy21:32
Venemobut if it isn't the first character in a line, you can cycle through possible names21:33
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fiferboy_n950other icons look good21:33
Venemoyeah, the others are pretty obvious21:33
fiferboy_n950usable in portrait, too21:34
Venemothat was one of its key design goals, to be able to be used by N9 users too :P21:34
Venemofiferboy, can you gimme better platformIconIds for the autocomplete and channellist icons? (the ones you found not obvious)21:34
fiferboy_n950well done21:34
Venemoalso, what do you think about the channel switcher bar? the green one.21:35
fiferboyThe window should probably autoscroll, though21:35
Venemothe window autoscrolls!21:35
Venemobut it is buggy if the last message is longer than 1 line21:35
fiferboySaves space, once you have multpile channels open it is obvious what it is for21:35
fiferboyYeah, not autoscrolling for me21:35
Venemoscroll down to the bottom21:35
Venemoand then see21:36
fiferboyThere it goes :)21:36
fiferboyUntil I open the VKB21:36
fiferboyThen it stops again21:36
VenemoI will add automatic scroll-to-bottom when orientation changes or vkb opens21:36
Venemothe theory behind that behaviour is a simply useful usecase:21:37
Venemowhen you scoll up to read scrollback, it is irritating when it still scrolls to the bottom while you're trying to read the scrollback21:37
Venemoso if you are not at the bottom, it will not autoscroll :)21:37
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fiferboyLooks good21:37
rzrkimju: i thought about using those line for F1 to F1021:37
Venemoand when the orientation changes, it becomes not at the bottom21:37
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Venemofiferboy, also, I plan to replace that Repeater with a TextArea to make text selection possible21:38
kimjurzr, well yeah.. too few keys :/21:39
Venemofiferboy, and now you can laugh: I will need to make my own WorkingTextArea because of
fiferboyVenemo: That would be cool.  Very nice work.21:39
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Venemofiferboy, does it segfault for you when you leave a channel?21:40
rzrkimju: i am importing that version to the community repo, u'll tell me when to update it21:41
fiferboyVenemo: I thought it was queries that segfaulted21:41
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Venemofiferboy, well, today channels did too.21:41
Venemoand the channel which I left is not always properly removed from the UI21:41
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javispedro"wl127x has also a dedicated FM i2c interface that is not typically used" -- well, that's exactly how the N950 does it! =)21:43
Venemojavispedro, hmhm?21:43
javispedrostill trying the fmrx21:44
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Venemojavispedro, does it work? :)21:45
javispedronot yet21:45
Venemofiferboy, do you think I should create a wikipage for the IRC client?21:46
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fiferboyVenemo: That would probably be helpful for the initial release21:47
hiemanshuVenemo: do you have a settings page? With list of channels and servers and nicks and such?21:48
Venemofiferboy, I'm thinking of a page where people could add feature ideas and such21:48
Venemohiemanshu, I have a settings page, and a stub server configuration sheet, which is called ConnectionSheet21:48
lcukVenemo, an irc client really needs a channel21:48
lcukhi Venemo fiferboy hiemanshu javispedro \i21:49
lcuk\o even21:49
Venemolcuk, you think so? :P21:49
hiemanshuHey lcuk21:49
lcukVenemo, of course21:50
lcukyour audience is not reading web pages21:50
hiemanshuVenemo: ah ok, might have some free time over the weekend to play around with the code21:50
Venemofiferboy, lcuk, oh by the way. hiemanshu mentioned that he finds the name 'irc-chatter' dull and gay. does any of you have a recommendation for a better name?21:50
lcukthey are already using irc21:50
Venemolcuk :P21:50
lcukVenemo, liqirc :P21:50
hiemanshulcuk: you wish21:50
lcukhiemanshu, I already have bare bones irc client21:51
lcukit allows talking with sketches21:51
* lcuk shrugs21:51
* lcuk might bring it in here and sketch stuff to folks 21:51
Venemolcuk, by the way. I'm still planning on implementing your idea about images.21:51
hiemanshui cant sketch :/21:51
lcukVenemo, good21:52
lcukhiemanshu, i could not write either at one point21:52
* lcuk still cannot normally but that is another issue21:52
hiemanshulcuk: ah well, i prefer typing :P21:53
lcukhiemanshu, typing is tricky without keyboards21:53
hiemanshui have used an iphone for a while so i disagree21:54
lcukdo you have n950?21:54
lcukthe vkb is very slick21:54
kimjurzr, what is xkb name of the backtick `21:55
hiemanshuYeah, i use it often, it needs to be flashed though, loads of issues, including the browser crashing all the time when it worked before21:55
TSCHAKeee I love the virtual kb under harmattan21:58
TSCHAKeeeit's as good as the iphone's.21:58
TSCHAKeeeand for me that criteria is, "Can I type, while walking down the street?" .. answer is yes.21:59
lcukTSCHAKeee, how is your development going22:00
Venemolcuk, I took your suggestion. see ya in #irc-chatter :)22:01
TSCHAKeeelcuk: we're proceeding well, one moment, i'll get youtube links (for some reason, THIS netbook won't go to youtube lately.)22:01
fiferboyVenemo: Added a known issue22:01
Venemofiferboy, thx22:02
TSCHAKeeelcuk:  and  are our two most recent.22:02
TSCHAKeeeI will be doing some more target tests on the N950 shortly.22:02
TSCHAKeeewow, there are actual applications in the ovi store for Harmattan22:06
TSCHAKeeeovi store usage is vastly improved over n90022:06
Venemothat is good22:08
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TSCHAKeeeI just bought/downloaded Pinball Fantasies22:14
TSCHAKeeecoded by my old friends, The Silents, it turns geez...22:15
TSCHAKeeelooks like a very nice port from the amiga version22:15
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rzrkimju: hold on i take my n810 :)22:57
GeneralAntillesI can't believe Nokia put a "Green" category in the Ovi Store.22:59
GeneralAntillesKill me now.22:59
Venemohey guys! what do you think?
rzr  state 0x90, keycode 16 (keysym 0xfe50, dead_grave), same_screen YES,23:00
rzr    XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (60) "`"23:00
rzrdead_grave ?23:00
kimjurzr, dead_grave doesn't seem to be dead, dead_acute doesn't work, but acute does.. odd.23:00
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: An app to play a really, really loud scream if you don't unplug the charger.23:01
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rzrGeneralAntilles: i wish they'll be greener if batteries could be replaced on n950 or E7 ...23:02
GeneralAntillesUgh, don't remind me about that stupid reminder.23:02
GeneralAntillesThere's sensible approaches to consumption then there's insanity.23:02
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GeneralAntillesNokia seems to consistently fall on the insanity side with their Green software and platform initiatives.23:03
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: It's stuff they can point the green wackos to, and get points23:03
kimjurzr, I now have: asdfg ASDFG !"&() ^`'{} and vb VB <> []23:04
wazdVenemo: it really needs a package for monkeys like me :P23:04
Venemowazd, not yet. see, you have to modify some C++ code to change your nickname :P23:04
wazdVenemo: mehehe :D23:05
kimjubattery on n950 can be replaced, it just needs opening of four T4 screws23:06
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SpeedEvilGoing from user-servicable to not user servicable is a big thing though.23:06
rzrtrue but E7 doesnt have those screw iccr23:06
kimjuinside you have nokia bl-4d battery. same as in e7 and n8.23:07
wazdVenemo: and I've fixed the shitty background btw :P23:08
kimjuand yes, all of those are officially "Please note that battery BL-4D in Nokia N8-00 and E7-00 is internal and non-removable. Take the device to the nearest authorized service facility for replacement of the battery."23:08
Venemowazd, hmm :)23:11
wazdVenemo: it's clearly visible on your photo :)23:11
Venemowazd, I don't think it's shitty, it's just not white.23:12
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wazdVenemo: it has rendering error -> not good :)23:16
VenemoI didn't notice any error :S23:16
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kimjurzr, new version build in obs, 1.7-2. please test.23:32
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wazdVenemo: according to files it was "supposed" to be white, but it isn't because of resize artifacts23:34
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rzrkimju: i added you
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wazdArkenoi: so, any revelations yet? :)23:44
Arkenoiwazd: takes some time to settle down. turned out it needs additional approval, hope to get it tomorrow23:45
lcukwazd, remember when you noticed my torch was grey!23:46
fralsand the guy getting these additional approvals are in line with you sharing everything publicly afterwards?23:46
lcukhi frals \o23:46
fralsheya lcuk23:46
* w00t_ eyes frals 23:47
w00t_i met some of your evil swedish compatriots this evening23:47
Arkenoii doubt there is anything really secret -- anyone who had his hands on n9 which is so popular among nokia employees did see almost the same23:47
lcuk\o w00t_23:47
fralsor wait evil, no such thing as evil swedes tbh23:47
wazdlcuk: YEAH, i'M THAT FREAKY :p23:47
wazdoops, soory23:47
fralsArkenoi: if its not public its secret and shouldnt be shared publicly ;-)23:48
Arkenoiso i hope i will be allowed to tell you everything i could see23:48
lcukwazd, no, you have a designer ability others don't23:48
w00t_i was sitting in a chinese restaurent here in berlin, and i'm like... that sounds familiar23:48
lcukyour skills are awesome wazd23:48
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lcukdjszapi_1, \o23:48
wazdlcuk: yeah, wish one day my skills will buy me some food at last :D23:48
fralsah you are at ds, how is it down there?23:48
djszapi_1evening luck :)23:48
wazdlcuk: but thanks :)23:48
djszapi_1* lcuk23:49
w00t_i look forward to going home :)23:49
* frals is enjoying vacation23:49
wazdArkenoi: grab the damn firmware and kill the contact :D23:49
djszapi_1w00t_ from where ?23:49
frals... 5th day of vacation and 5th day of rain23:49
wazdArkenoi: it's that simple :)23:49
djszapi_1frals: enjoy women inside the house then :)23:50
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lcukfrals, thunder stopped yet?23:50
w00t_djszapi_1: ?23:50
fralsya was only for a few hours that night23:50
fralslcuk: lightning struck at the the bays west and east of my building, guess thats why it was so friggin loud :p23:51
djszapi_1w00t_ nvm23:51
lcukfrals, eep23:51
lcuki bet you put your girly cushion over your head! :P23:52
fiferboyVenemo: Any ideas for allowing specification for what role to use to display in WorkingSelectionDialog?23:52
fralswas in my window trying to see anything but couldnt really :(23:52
lcukfrals, I saw advert for a job today23:52
lcuknokia posting for vb.net23:52
* lcuk thought about applying23:52
djszapi_1lcuk: you might have misunderstood ?23:53
djszapi_1what they will change to is vb from qtscript stuff.23:53
lcukdjszapi_1, i spent 10 years writing vb stuff23:58
lcuki did not misunderstand anything ;)23:58
* lcuk even has liqflow in somewhere23:59

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