IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-08-09

rcgMohammadAG: you can simply use "onSignalName"00:00
rcgso for "signal: void foo();" you use "onFoo: ..."00:00
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MohammadAGrcg, I'm using view.rootContext()->setContextProperty("MediaRecorder", &recorder);00:03
MohammadAGnot qmlRegisterType00:03
rcghmm ic .. sorry, have no experience with that approach00:03
rcgthough, i assume it should work similarly..00:04
rcgcan you use "MediaRecorder" to access your stuff in QML?00:04
rcgif yes then you could try to do something like: MediaRecorder.onSignalName: { ... }00:05
rcgbut thats really a very wild guess00:05
MohammadAGMediaRecorder.function() yes00:05
rcgthen you really might give: MediaRecorder.onSignalName: { ... } a try00:05
MohammadAGthe signal has an int in it, which I need btw00:06
rcglet me know how it works out ;)00:06
rcgyou can access it00:06
fralswhatever the var is named in signal def, use the same in your signal handler00:06
MohammadAGisn't AUDIO/PCM .wav btw?00:06
rcgexactly as frals said00:07
fralsand if rcg suggestion dont work Connection { target: MediaRecorder ... } should00:07
MohammadAGMusicRecorder.onUploaded: { uploadProgressBar.value: percentage }00:08
MohammadAGQt Creator says UploadingPage.qml:19: error: Expected token `;'00:08
rcgMusicRecorder.onUploaded: { uploadProgressBar.value = percentage }00:08
rcgnote the '=' instead of ':'00:09
fralswhen writing javascript use =, when qml use : ;-)00:09
mgedminuh oh flashing failed at 82% of rootfs00:10
rcgafaik ':' binds a property while '=' is more like a value assignment00:11
fralsmgedmin: did you use oneclick flasher?00:11
rcgso if you foo: bar and then change bar, foo will change likewise as it is bound to bar00:11
mgedminlooks like a hardware problem :/00:11
rcgthis can be quite handy in conjunction with the alias keyword00:12
MohammadAGfrals, qrc:/qml/UploadingPage.qml:19:5: Non-existent attached object00:12
fralsmgedmin: yeah, looks pretty bad, if reflash attempt fails id get in touch with nokia00:13
fralsMohammadAG: and the line is?00:13
specialMusicRecorder.onUploaded is an attached signal, which isn't what you want00:13
specialrecorder.onUploaded *may* work, otherwise Connections { target: recorder; onUploaded:00:14
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MohammadAGSounds like an aegis error00:17
MohammadAGmgedmin, try writing manually00:17
mgedminaegis protects the last 18% of the rootfs from unauthorized reflashes?00:17
MohammadAGfrals, commented out, which leaves me to believe Qt Creator is being retarded00:21
ieatlintthat's unlikely, nokia build environments are always clean, clear, concise and work perfectly00:22
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rcgMohammadAG: just a question: is there any reason not to use qmlRegisterType?00:27
MohammadAGrcg, not really00:29
MohammadAGdoes that keep an instance of the object or does it need static methods?00:29
rcg"If the QML item needs to receive signals from the context property, it can connect to them using the Connections element."00:30
rcgConnections { target: MediaRecorder; onUploaded: { uploadProgressBar.value = percentage } }00:31
specialis 'MediaRecorder' a type or a variable?00:31
rcgactually thats the variable00:32
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specialit's convention to use uppercase first letters for types in QML00:32
rcgand yes should actually start lowercase.. was just about to mention this ;)00:32
rcgMohammadAG: ah i see.. so you need that reference in your C++ code while interacting with QML.. then the above snippet with "Connections ..." should do00:33
rcgif you use qmlRegisterType you essentially create the object in the QML part.. but you can pass a pointer to that object back to your C++ code at any time00:34
rcgi think frals and special also already mentioned "Connections..."00:35
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antman8969anyone know what javispedro 's n64 emulator project name is? or if he hosted a deb anywhere00:45
rcgdoes anyone know if there is something like a treeview in QML?00:50
MohammadAGk, so 10.1MBs for 30 seconds is NOT good00:50
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hardaker2anyone tried a screen protector yet?  do the ones from the n900 work ok on the 950, or is there an issue with the capacitive touch screen difference?00:57
antman8969I actually did00:57
hardaker2(the 950 is cap-touch, right?)00:57
antman8969I bought the matte finish screen protectors for the droid x00:57
hardaker2antman8969: was the size of it about right then?00:58
antman8969I had to trim it a little, but it ended up fitting the visible area00:58
antman8969but not the entire glass, no00:58
antman8969I ended up taking it off00:58
antman8969the swipe gesture it kind of annoying to do00:58
hardaker2rough edge?00:58
antman8969you end up swiping from the glass onto the protector00:58
antman8969not really00:58
antman8969first off, the matte finish distorts the whites on screen00:58
antman8969makes them kind of sparkly...00:59
antman8969but even if it was a clear one00:59
antman8969the problem is that the UI requires you to gesture from the outside of the screen00:59
antman8969so unless its perfectly fit I dont see it working00:59
antman8969I ended up just putting it in my pocket lol. I got a n8 leather case for it tho00:59
antman8969so it doesn't bang around my gym bag01:00
antman8969even that I had to cut...01:00
hardaker2the n8 is a bit thicker, but otherwise the right size I take it?01:01
antman8969aparently it's shorter too lol01:01
antman8969the n950 stick out of the top of the case01:01
antman8969I have a rubber band attached to the belt slot01:01
antman8969maybe the e7 would have been better01:01
antman8969a case for the e7 that is01:01
hardaker2we need the n9 accessories.01:02
antman8969not sure how much choice will be available01:02
antman8969maybe once it launches in sweeden01:02
MohammadAGthe E7 case would work perfectly01:04
MohammadAGthe N9 accessories won't work, it's a bit slimmer than the N95001:04
hardaker2I'm still hoping they put the 950 into production.01:05
hardaker2my wife is not happy they're not making some with keyboards.01:05
ieatlinti think you can give up on that hope01:06
hardaker2I refuse01:06
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ieatlinti'm pretty sure blind hope was one of nokia's problems too01:07
antman8969does your wife plan on buying?01:07
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hardaker2who knows.01:08
hardaker2she likes how the 950 looks and feels.01:08
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lardmananyone added a backup conf file? Is there an accepted string to use to replace <application-type>nokia</application-type> ?01:15
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lardmanhas anyone worked out what the backup script stuff here actually means?:
lardmanfor example, how are the backup scripts called by the backup application?01:27
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* lardman is guessing that he should use application as the category01:35
lardmanand that the backup framework will place the backed up file as per his conf file, so that his restore script can unpack it01:35
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lardmanevening infobot01:37
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antman8969?? rand() on harmattan is only generating 846930886 over and over01:46
antman8969thats not very random01:47
hardaker2it could happen :-P01:47
antman8969lol yea 10 times in a row.... I should play loto01:47
specialantman8969: did you call srand()?01:48
hardaker2(did you call srand first I hope?)01:48
hardaker2otherwise you get what you asked for!01:48
antman8969no I didn't, but I didn't have to on debian01:48
specialyou're not guaranteed anything about the seed by the system01:49
specialso it can be (and often is) the same for every process every time it starts.01:49
hardaker2you need to call it on everything.01:49
hardaker2it's undefined otherwise.01:49
antman8969aparently, but it DID work fine on my pc01:49
hardaker2you got lucky.01:49
antman8969I got lucky and got random numbers every time?01:50
hardaker2just insert an srand(time()) at the top of main01:50
lardmanyeah but surely even if you get the same set of numbers they should be different on each call01:50
hardaker2antman8969: no, you got lucky you were on a libc implementation that probably did a seed for you.  though what *with* is a different question.01:50
hardaker2if it was the same seed every time, it wouldn't have been better :-/01:50
specialcan't be much worse than time() :)01:50
specialother than srand(4), I guess.01:51
antman8969well, I'll tell you in 10 seconds01:51
hardaker2you should try srand(0) and see if you get the same number :-)01:51
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lardmannight all02:17
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rcgmornin all09:07
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wazdyeah, my sister wants to buy N950 for 500 Euros :D10:03
wazdLike immediately :)10:03
aslaniWell, it's a very good piece of hardware :) ...and software10:03
wazdshe doesn't care bout the software that much as long as it has navigation software :)10:04
aslaniwell, actually ovi-maps are quite good10:05
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Arkenoin950 could kick sh*t out of e7 as "business phone"10:12
aslanimaybe if it would have SD-slot or more internal mass storage?10:13
Arkenoiwhy internal storage is so ridiculously small is different question10:13
Arkenoithere were early 64gb versions iirc10:14
wazdArkenoi: :P10:18
aslaniI guess these N950s we have now are just for "please make some software to N9 fast", not like they wanted to put any money making them?10:18
wazdI wonder why only about 8Gbs of 16 are available :)10:19
wazdspace for applications?10:20
aslanihave you checked df -h ?10:20
Arkenoiwazd, already done that :-)10:21
wazdArkenoi: you've used MC or vim?10:22
Arkenoivim sure10:22
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wazdawesome, no DEVELOPER EDITION pride for me :)10:38
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aslaniI sort of like my "DEVELOPER EDITION" -texts :(10:45
wazde-mail app still has it though :)10:49
Arkenoiwazd, you must be missing something, i removed it successfully everywhere10:50
wazdArkenoi: it's hard to miss 2 rows of text in the end of the file :P10:50
Arkenoithen this instruction is incomplete10:51
Arkenoii used the one from wiki10:51
wazdand calc still has it :(10:51
wazdArkenoi: link?10:51
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wazdArkenoi: Thanks11:02
wazdOvi Journeys? Wth is that? :)11:03
aslaniCould it be some sort of public transportation app?11:04
aslaniso you could plan your routes to meetings from you calendar and and... probably nothing as awesome :(11:04
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wazdArkenoi: how did you override read-only of constants.ini? :) Vim seems to block any changes even with !11:06
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Arkenoiwazd, dunno, it "just worked". did you do devel-su or ssh root@localhost? rumors say it may differ11:10
RST38hdoes differ a bit11:12
RST38hfrom the aegis point of view - I have not been able to do some things with ssh11:12
rcgwell.. from the aegis point of view you have to be careful what you do anyways11:13
rcgluckily i didn't edit an aegis protected file in /etc yet as this most probably would have required me to reflash11:13
rcgafaik DocScrutinizer had some discussion about aegis and /etc some while ago.. what i can tell is that its safe to edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config11:14
wazdnm, my bad11:14
rcggrep etc /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist11:16
rcgmost probably if the file you wanna edit is in /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist it would not be a good idea to edit it11:16
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Venemogood morning11:19
wazdVenemo: heya11:19
rcgmorning Venemo11:20
rcgand bbl.. gotta go to work..11:20
RST38hehlo venemo11:20
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wazdcool, the hack works, javispedro is the man *again* :)11:20
RST38hThey are still using "Ovi"?11:21
ieatlintthey seem pretty inconsistent about that11:28
wazdRST38h: nope11:33
wazdRST38h: it redirects to
RST38hwazd: yea, but it is Ovi Journeys11:34
wazdRST38h: news from october, 19, you know :P11:34
wazd2009 :D11:35
RST38hOh my god the tentacled one I have not notices11:36
RST38hwazd: so journeys went nowhere, ending with a spinoff into a different company?11:38
wazdRST38h: I guess so, but why is it mentioned in N950 styling files then? :P11:40
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rcgwork work...11:43
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Venemohey wazd & rcg & RST38h :)11:55
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rcgmornin lardman12:01
Venemohiemanshu, ping12:01
hiemanshuVenemo: pong12:03
Venemohiemanshu, good news, the author of libircclient-qt plans his next version to be very QML-friendly12:04
hiemanshuVenemo: nice, so we wait?12:04
Venemohiemanshu, unfortunately for us, this new version is still somewhat far away from being released, so he recommended us to proceed with the old version12:04
hiemanshuah ok12:04
Venemohiemanshu, when the new one is released (if at all), it will make our code a lot easier12:05
hiemanshuVenemo: hah, well, no use waiting12:06
Venemohiemanshu, now I plan to implement a very simple backend that is hardcoded to freenode (so that I will have IRC with me on the train)12:07
Venemohiemanshu, then I'll entrust the rest of the backend work to you :)12:07
hiemanshuworks for me12:07
hiemanshuI'll be busy with GSoC till untill end of the month12:07
Venemoall right12:08
Venemobtw, what's your GSoC project?12:08
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lardmandebian gurus?12:16
Venemolardman, see #debian12:17
Venemolardman, but if you don't have to, don't mention that your question is not directly about Debian...12:18
lardmandebian/rules, I want to execute dh_installinit only for Fremantle, not for Harmattan. I've got a variable set to let me know whether it's Fremantle or not, can I use if [] in one of the sections12:18
lardmansorry Venemo, got delayed watching riot aftermath on the news12:19
Venemono problem12:19
VenemoI can't really help you, I'm not much of a packaging guru myself.12:19
Venemosorry :(12:19
Venemoalterego, ping12:19
hiemanshuVenemo: my GSoC project is Fedora Events System12:20
Venemohiemanshu, and what does that do?12:20
hiemanshuEvent Managements12:20
Venemowhat kind of events are we talking about?12:21
hiemanshuConferences and such12:22
kimjulardman, debian/rules is basicly a makefile.12:23
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Venemois there a free bugzilla service we could use for our MeeGo apps?12:34
spenapVenemo, I'm using
spenapit has a ticketing system integrated12:35
Venemospenap, is it free?12:36
Venemoas in, free beer at least?12:36
lardmankimju: thanks, I've finally worked that one out12:36
lardmanso I'm just using the wrong conditional syntax12:36
spenapVenemo, yeah, I think it's associated with the launchpad account used to get the N950s12:37
kimjulardman, pastebin your rules-file so we can review it?12:37
Venemolardman, later on, could you please share this information so that we can learn from it?12:37
spenapVenemo, and yes, seems free as in free beer if you would have to create the account from scratch12:38
spenap«If you are not registered yet, please fill in the registration form and you will be able to access the tools and resources you need for application development [...] Registration is free and [...]»12:39
Venemospenap, thx12:39
spenapVenemo, np12:40
* lardman twiddles thumbs waiting for FF to become responsive again12:41
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lardmanthough I need to change the first conditional check to the right format12:43
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lardmanso to summarise, use ifeq() rather than if [] then12:49
kimjuHARMATTAN := $(shell test -f /etc/meego-nokia_version && echo 1 || echo 0)12:50
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kimjusomething like that might work too.12:50
lardmanthat sounds nicer, thanks kimju12:50
TheBootrooon my n950, i can't save notes in the note app12:50
lardmanah, I probably forgot the colon in my command then in retrospect12:51
TheBootrooi click save, and the page goes back, as it should do, but then the app show a empty message banner, and no note appears in the note list....12:51
kimjulardman, also, ifeq($(HARMATTAN),0)12:51
lardmanah, ok, needs more brackets, thanks12:51
kimjuyes, otherwise it might look for $H12:52
lardmanah ok12:52
lardmancheers :)12:52
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wazdGuys, is there any way to use HSB colors with QML?13:07
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vladestwhere to get midnight commander for n950?13:11
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M4rtinK2there is on in rzr's harmattan repo13:18
M4rtinK2*one package in13:19
M4rtinK2BTW, anyone got an idea why this two builds might be are failing ?13:20
M4rtinK2the error messages are not exactly helpful...13:20
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vladestok, where is to get libslang2 ?13:30
wazd <- any suggestions for temperature colors? :)13:30
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vladestwazd: looks nice13:33
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vladestmaybe makes sense to remove green at all\13:34
vladestn9 contains temperature sensor? :)13:35
Tronicwazd: Green seems out of place.13:36
wazdTronic: well, yellow is definitely "warm" color, so if, for example +10C will have yellow hue it would be confusing :)13:39
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Tronicwazd: Usually blueish colors are mapped to positive temperatures too.13:48
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Tronic14 °C is the Earth average surface temperature, anything below that could be blue-ish and anything above it yellow/red-ish.13:49
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wazdTronic: let's stick to 0 as default :P13:52
wazdTronic: it would be user friendly, not wikipedia :P13:52
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spenapI know I have asked this before, but maybe during this weekend someone did it :D, so here it goes: did anyone manage to integrate with the settings using qtquick?13:57
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Venemo_N950Anyone getting this?14:02
TheBootrooyou could use green for temperate warms '10 to 20 °C, red for  above, and blue for colder14:03
Venemo_N950It's hard to tell whether this crap is not working or people are just not writing14:03
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TronicVenemo: That crap is not working.14:06
VenemoTronic, it was working14:07
Venemothe channel log proves that :P14:07
TronicOh, I thought I would convince you that nobody saw anything.14:07
TheBootroogot a problem with a Qdeclarative app on n95014:08
TheBootrooif i keep the original settings, i can't have antialising, but if i set i to raster, speed is very low and gradients are like in 16 bit colors14:09
TheBootrooi can't figure out why : i have set 'smooth' to 'true' on QML elements, and i have the renderhint 'Antialising' to true on the declarativeVIew14:10
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TheBootrooand on the computer, it works fine14:10
VenemoTronic, only issue is that I can't retrieve the user list of a channel14:11
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Venemowhy is it that the N950's cellular connection is a lot slower than the N900's?14:30
ArkenoiVenemo, never noticed that14:32
Venemoalso, the signal reception quality is worse too14:33
Venemohow worse seems to be varying14:33
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TheBootrooVenemo: maybe because its a proto and the software is not finished, and the alu case interscepts a lot of signals strenght (the N9 should be much ebtter with its tiny plastic casing)14:34
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Venemo_TheBootroo: yeah, that's what I hope for14:38
TheBootrooVenemo_: no idea for my problem ?14:39
Venemo_TheBootroo, what is your problem?14:39
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TheBootroo--->>  13:0814:39
Venemoantialiasing, hm14:39
TheBootrooi got a problem with a Qdeclarative app on n950, if i keep the original settings, i can't have antialising, but if i set i to raster, speed is very low and gradients are like in 16 bit colors... i can't figure out why : i have set 'smooth' to 'true' on QML elements, and i have the renderhint 'Antialising' to true on the declarativeVIew14:39
VenemoI see.14:40
TheBootroovery strange problem14:40
VenemoIhave no idea, but I'm not sure why you would want antialiasing on such a small screen14:40
TheBootrooharmattan obviously support AA14:40
TheBootrooVenemo: because without AA its ugly14:40
VenemoI thought that everything is automatically antialiased14:40
Venemowell, my app doesn't look ugly.14:40
TheBootrooi have many rounded rectangles so without AA it looks like a stair path14:41
TheBootrooVenemo: so you have the AA automattically enabled14:41
Venemonot sure.14:41
Venemoit just doesn't look ugly14:41
TheBootrooyes, you use the stock harmattan QML components ?14:41
VenemoI do14:41
TheBootrooso they have AA enabled14:42
TheBootroobut i'm developping my own components14:42
VenemoTheBootroo, by the way... you say the alu casing destroys the signal... but _where_ is the alu casing?14:42
Venemothis stuff looks like plain black plastic to me14:42
TheBootrooand i can't enable AA on them on my device, but works fine on my computer14:42
thpVenemo: the back cover isn't plastic (apart from the two edges)14:43
Venemothp, so it's just the battery cover?14:43
TheBootrooVenemo: its a alu casing, with a small plastic film on it14:43
aslaniMy N950 is certainly alu14:43
TheBootrooeven on the front and sides its alu with paper-like plastic film14:43
thpVenemo: at least I got reception problems in low-reception areas as well14:43
TheBootrooVenemo: just look the led14:43
aslaniDropped it twice and it's bit chipped :D14:43
TheBootroothe led is in a hole in the metal, but under the plastic film14:44
thpaslani: i never understood why people drop their devices. it's not good for the casing..14:44
Venemoso then why don't they connect the antenna to the casing? and then the casing itself could act as an antenna, making reception stronger instead of weaker?14:44
Venemomaybe DocScrutinizer could answer this one?14:44
aslanithp: on screen camera button :(14:44
Venemothp, I think he dropped accidentally14:44
TheBootrooVenemo: did you remeber Antennagate from Iphone ?14:44
DocScrutinizerVenemo: antennae *always* are a dipole14:45
TheBootrooVenemo: the problem with the case being the antenna is that you can't touch the  case without absorbing the signal14:45
DocScrutinizerelectricity *never* runs thru a one-wire setup14:45
VenemoDocScrutinizer, okay, I get that...14:46
DocScrutinizerthe common "unipole" antenna is just using GND aka case for the other pole14:46
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VenemoTheBootroo, sure, but this time the anntenna is covered with plastic, so it's insulated from our touch, isn't it?14:48
DocScrutinizerso on your typical walkie-talkie the telescope antenna is the one half, and case+you+earth is the other half14:48
Venemoalso, if it is covered with plastic anyway, what's the point of making it from alu?14:48
TheBootrooVenemo: not everywhere, the middle of the back cover is alu14:48
TheBootrooVenemo: alu is for warm dissipation, strenght, and hype14:49
DocScrutinizeryou can use closed dipole antenna which basically is a sort of a coil14:49
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: yeah14:50
VenemoTheBootroo, so how are they managing to make it look the same as the plastic? to me, back cover looks the same as everywhere else14:50
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DocScrutinizerfor the alu debate, just remove the battery cover and look at the inside. You start to doubt it's all alu14:52
VenemoDocScrutinizer, if it's not,t hen what's the excuse for the poor reception?14:53
DocScrutinizeralso battery cover probably doesn't contribute much for heat dissipation/spreading14:53
DocScrutinizerVenemo: N950? poor reception? can't confirm this14:54
VenemoDocScrutinizer, alterego's device can't even get any signal at all where he lives.14:54
fralsmine got shit reception compared to my n90014:55
fralsbut expected since n950 is not an enduser device so i *guess* it doesnt have the same level of testing/optimization done14:55
DocScrutinizerhmm, dunno. Lots of possible causes14:55
Venemomine can, but the signal strength becomes zero when I'm on a sparsely populated area / train / bus / etc. -> 90% of which cases the N900 could still give me an internet connection14:55
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Venemofrals, do you see a possibility that this will be fixed by a firmware update? or is it just a hw defect?14:56
TheBootrooVenemo: i don't have to whine, mine achieve to dl mails in my cities tube14:56
TheBootroo20 meters underground14:56
DocScrutinizerfrals: don't fool yourself (and us) - Nokia *never* will build a device like N950 for a niche "market" like developer lendout14:56
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VenemoTheBootroo, mine too, because that city's tube does have good coverage.14:57
DocScrutinizerTheBootroo: bah, there are repeaters in there, or even dedicated BTS14:57
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: i don't think so14:58
DocScrutinizerI'm sure14:58
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: there is not even a wifi network14:58
DocScrutinizererr wut?14:58
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: yeah14:58
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: i'm living in france14:58
DocScrutinizerWTF wifi network?14:58
TheBootrooits a numr14:58
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VenemoTheBootroo, they actually do place cellular repeaters into the tubes, so that people can phone.14:59
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: in the tube station there is no wifi network14:59
TheBootrooVenemo: most people cant14:59
VenemoTheBootroo, noone is talking about wifi repeaters.14:59
DocScrutinizerso what? on my roof there's also no wifi network14:59
TheBootrooVenemo: most people drop call in the lift14:59
VenemoTheBootroo, my N900 used to drop calls when it switched towers in the tube :P14:59
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: if they donh't put a simple wifi network, why would they put a BTS ?15:00
DocScrutinizerbecause there are 10000 times more users of GSM than of WiFi?15:00
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: :-|15:00
VenemoTheBootroo, because you pay to your operator to use your phone. and your operator pays to the metro company to put their towers there.15:00
VenemoTheBootroo, noone pays for wifi.15:00
Venemoat least, paid wifis are not popular at all in my country15:01
TheBootrooVenemo: here we have operator customized and paid wifi15:02
DocScrutinizerplus the range of a WLAN AP is max 100m, MAXIMUM. While one BTS with a long pipe slot antenna can cover a tube of 15km length15:02
TheBootrooyou can use it only if you have a valid contract with an operator15:02
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: could you come at home and install me a BTS in my room :D15:03
fralsVenemo: i have no idea, as i said im only guessing15:03
TheBootrooso i can have 5G on my N95015:03
DocScrutinizerno, as I'm going to install a BTS on CCCamp in 12h15:03
Venemofrals, ok, then we'll see what the future brings :)15:04
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: how do you get any decent signal strength reading? Seems my signal indicator vanished most of the time completely, which didn't mean there was a connectivity issue15:05
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* RST38h yawns, inquires about the news15:06
wazdRST38h: o/15:06
Venemo_N950When I connect to the network with the N950, the laptop disconnects15:09
Venemo_N950Very annoying15:09
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RST38hwazd: no news?15:15
wazdRST38h: working on new menu for Ati15:16
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RST38hah cool =)15:16
wazdRST38h: can I change the layout? To use 4×X grid15:16
RST38hwazd: would prefer not to (will require code changes)15:17
wazdRST38h: ok15:17
RST38hwazd: but if you are absolutely forced to do it and the result is cool, go ahead15:17
wazdRST38h: not really, I think it would work with 3 coloumns too :)15:18
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* Arkenoi thinks about buying a bluetooth wristwatch (i:Virt?), hopefully watchphone will work on harmattan15:21
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, when my signal strength indicator shows 0 signal, then the connection is indeed disconnected15:28
VenemoDocScrutinizer, (I saw in the logs that you asked this after I disconnected)15:28
Venemo~seen fiferboy15:29
infobotfiferboy <~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 16h 10m 26s ago, saying: 'Venemo: It could be the footer height in CommonDialog, but it doesn't look like it should be used for this'.15:29
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Venemoany idea how I could use the N950's modem from both my laptop and the N950?15:43
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TheBootrooVenemo: same question i can't find how to do that, it was easy on my N90015:44
TheBootrooi first though i had to use 'sync and connect' usb mode but it doesn't seem to do anything15:45
Venemobut it does15:45
TheBootrooVenemo: ?15:45
VenemoTheBootroo, I connect to it through "sync and connect"15:46
TheBootrooVenemo: ha ... not me15:46
VenemoTheBootroo, read
DocScrutinizersync'n'connect is USB-UMTS-stick plus mass storage?15:46
DocScrutinizeror USB-UMTS-stick plus USB-network?15:47
Venemosync and connect is the new "pc suite mode"15:47
Venemobut usb-network is only available in sync&connect under Linux15:47
alteregoIt shows up as a digital camera too.15:47
DocScrutinizerDUH, nice15:48
Venemobut the rest of the fancyness is only on windows15:48
TheBootroowould there be a way to export GPS, wlan, bluetooth, and camera upon USB  ?15:49
DocScrutinizerwell, if it's USB-3G-dongle & network, then you need to share back the 3G from PC via USB-network to N95015:49
TheBootrooat least to linux computer ?15:49
VenemoDocScrutinizer, how do I go about that?15:49
TheBootrooVenemo: or use bluetooth to thether and usb to develop ?15:49
DocScrutinizerI'd think that largely depends on your PC distro15:50
DocScrutinizerno idea15:50
DocScrutinizeryou need to configure a normal 3G-dongle, then share network to the USB-NIC15:51
Venemo"then share network to the USB-NIC" is the problem for me15:51
DocScrutinizerthere are some magic iptables incantations to do this15:51
Venemolast time I tried something similar with MeeGo (non-harmattan), noone could tell me how to do that :(15:52
DocScrutinizerit's not different to sharing "normal" (e.g. DSL) internet of your PC via USB-network to any device15:52
Venemothat either.15:52
DocScrutinizerI think there are howtos for several distros on both maemo and openmoko wiki for that15:52
hiemanshuis this really happenening, DocScrutinizer back in #harmattan15:54
* hiemanshu faints15:54
Venemohiemanshu, DocScrutinizer never left #harmattan15:54
hiemanshuVenemo: he did15:54
VenemoDocScrutinizer, could you please point me to such a wikipage?15:54
VenemoI vaguely recall seeing a Maemo wikipage about USB networking, but it didn't say anything about this subject.15:55
TheBootrooDocScrutinizer: and a way to do a wifi hotpoint fro the 3G modem, without any paid program15:56
VenemoTheBootroo, rumour (djszapi) has it that the N9 has an app "JoikuSpot" or WhateverSpot that does this.15:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer, thanks15:57
DocScrutinizerTheBootroo: aiui there's no way to establish that, as you'd need netfilters kernel module that'S missing. I could be wrong15:58
alteregoYou can just setup your host as the gateway and nameserver ..16:00
alteregoWell, that's what I've done.16:00
alteregoThe problem is getting network manager to recognise that it's connected ..16:00
Venemoall right, I did this:
Venemoafter this, I tried 'ping' on N950, and it failed.16:01
Venemoalterego, how did you do that?16:02
alteregoI didn't, that's why it is a problem ;)16:05
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Venemo[15:00] <alterego> Well, that's what I've done.16:09
Venemodon't you contradict yourself a bit?16:09
alteregoI said I did the routing16:09
alteregoI've not done anything with network manager.16:09
Venemowhy would I need to do anything with network manager?16:10
wazdRST38h: ?16:10
RST38hwazd: I liked the old periodic-table-like icons better16:11
RST38hwazd:reset and power look pretty damn nice though16:11
wazdRST38h: :(16:11
TheBootroowazd: good looking but doesit work ?16:11
wazdRST38h: :)16:11
RST38hwazd: no, really, there is a point after which simplification just makes things uglier =)16:12
TheBootroowazd: and the NSpire is missing16:12
RST38hBEsides, you now require labels under icons, duplicating icon inscriptions16:12
RST38hby going back to old icons, you get rid fo the labels16:12
TheBootroojust get rid of labels under icons16:13
TheBootroowe know its a TI calc program so we dont need TI to appaer on each icon16:13
TheBootrooonly the number16:13
* RST38h absolutely insists of having at least the upper/lower half layout in the icons same as old ones. The rabbit-turd shape is ok16:14
TheBootrooyou can write TI Calculators in big letters at the top of the screen, only once16:14
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TheBootroowazd: wait a minute16:15
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TheBootrooRST38h: wazd: much better like that  (DRY : dont repeat yourself) :
TheBootrooand it fits the harmattan style better16:22
RST38hBootroo: Sorry, it is much uglier the way you have drawn it16:22
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TheBootrooRST38h: why ?16:24
RST38hHuge rounded corners, giant useless text at the top16:24
wazdTheBootroo: well, I think the problem is with over-rounded corners :)16:24
TheBootrooi don't drew anything, i just took the image and repositionned the items on it16:25
TermanaI'm glad I'm not the only one who was going to say the rounded edges :p16:25
TheBootroowazd: they are by default on harmttan, not coming from my mind16:25
TheBootroowell maybe a little too much rounded16:26
TheBootroogonna fix16:26
TheBootroonow it looks just like the default apps on harmattan (look at rss reader, notes, documents, mails....)  :
TheBootroorecentered title :
TheBootroohas someone tested the quality of the front webcam ?16:33
TermanaTheBootroo, no no no no. absolutely not16:33
Termanayou have rounded the bottom as well!16:34
TheBootrooTermana: wut ?16:34
TheBootrooTermana: yes like on N950°16:34
TheBootroobut i made it white to make it visible16:34
TheBootroobecause black over black = black16:34
TermanaI just opened up notes and it does have rounding16:35
Termanamaybe it would look better on device16:35
TheBootroowant it or not, its the default look of harmattan16:35
TheBootrooTermana: just dl the image and look it fullscreen in the album, ;-)16:35
TheBootroo(if you have the device)16:35
TheBootroobut the problem will be the white roundind : on device i must be black16:36
TheBootrooso just use this one in place :
TheBootrooshit there are white glimpses16:39
TheBootroook this one is good :
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wazdRST38h: ? :)16:45
RST38hwazd: Can we go back to the old periodic-style model icons? Please?16:46
RST38hwazd: Just change them to the turd shape, but keep the overall look...16:46
SpeedEvil"Dear Customer,16:47
SpeedEvil  Your order has been sent on 9.8.2011. Please see the order information below."16:47
TheBootrooRST38h: better to stick to the official default style (modern one)16:47
SpeedEvilWell - that was unexpected.16:47
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wazdRST38h: :(16:47
SpeedEvilI was resigned to it taking rather longer.16:47
RST38hwazd: The ones you have done are basically just colored shapes with text inside - they do not even look like icons :(16:48
* MohammadAG likes it though16:49
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TheBootrooRST38h: previous ones where too16:53
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GAN900SpeedEvil, overnight.16:54
wazdRST38h: maybe something like this? :)
TheBootroowazd: too complicated16:58
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wazdTheBootroo: looks closer to the initial one16:58
Termanawazd, "Service Unavailable". Yes I definitely like that one better16:59
Termana... :p16:59
Termananevermind it loaded now16:59
wazdTermana: :D16:59
RST38hwazd: has that rabbit eaten a TI calc manual or what? =)16:59
TheBootroowazd: yeah but the shape is too complicate16:59
wazdRST38h: you say it like it's something bad :D17:00
TheBootroowazd: much closer to original one :
wazdIt looks like a bomberman's head :D17:01
RST38hwazd: Not bad but reminds me of enemas, which is unpleasant17:01
SpeedEvilGAN900: thanks.17:01
SpeedEvilOn early boot - are there any flags which will tell the kernel not to do aegis, when execed by flasher?17:02
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TheBootrooRST38h: OMG17:02
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wazdTheBootroo: yes, but I'll still try to find something less obvious :P17:05
TheBootroowazd: less is best17:05
TheBootroo(Keep It Simple and Straightforward)17:06
TheBootroo" simplicity should be a key goal in design, and that unnecessary complexity should be avoided. "17:07
wazdTheBootroo: yeah, say hello to J.Ive for me :P17:07
TheBootroowazd: ok, he will surely be happy about that ;-)17:08
RST38hBootroo: "...and everything should look like a brightly colored egg" ?17:09
TheBootroowazd: but you know, apple is not the father of KISS philosophy17:09
TheBootrooRST38h: its the harmattan color palette, i have nothing against that17:09
TheBootrooRST38h: if the choice had been mine i would have chosen pastel colors17:10
wazdTheBootroo: yeah, and Braun too :)17:10
RST38hBootroo: TI calcs had their own colors. I would suggest sticking to those.17:10
TheBootroowazd: the real origin of the KISS is  Kelly Johnson17:10
RST38hAbsolutely no reason to use Harmattan color palette or shapes17:10
TheBootroowazd: or even Leonardo Da Vinci :  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"17:11
alteregoI'd really like gst-launch  ..17:11
alteregoWell, basically I'd like all the gstreamer utils17:11
alteregoHas anyone packaged these yet?17:11
wazdTheBootroo: yeah, Leo was heluva simple guy :)17:12
TheBootrooRST38h: its better to integrate well with the system, visually, that why lacked to Maemo and made it look even more 'experimental'17:12
TheBootroowazd: :D17:12
RST38hBootroo: Ok, you integrate with the system17:12
RST38hBootroo: I will stick to the principle that AlmostTI is a portable cross-platform app that sticks to the TI calculator style and not to the style of the platform it is running at17:12
RST38h(besides, Harmattan style isn't even a fixed thing, it can be changed on a whim)17:13
TheBootrooRST38h: ok, but providing plateform adapted icons for 9 icons is not a real pain, and make a good effect17:13
TheBootrooRST38h: harmattan style is fixed, and is a common style with symbian Belle now17:14
TheBootrooand its a quite good style with researched guideline that you just haev to follow to produce professional looking stuff17:14
MohammadAGso, theechonest can decode wavs made by arecord but not those by QMediaRecorder17:14
RST38hBootroo: ok, thanks.17:15
MohammadAGanyone used QMediaRecorder before?17:15
TheBootrooalterego: talkin about gst, do you have tested the front camera of n950 ? quality is better than N900 one i hope ...17:15
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KypeliAre there known issues with pop():n more than once from the pageStack()17:18
KypeliIf I pop twice, I get to the correct page but it seems it does not have focus.17:18
KypeliIf I pop once, all is fine.17:18
TheBootrooKypeli: maybe you should wait for the animation to finish before poping again17:19
KypeliI can't do that.17:19
KypeliI want to go from subpage 2 to front page.17:19
spenapKypeli, there's another option, let me check17:19
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Kypelispenap: Thanks17:20
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spenapKypeli, if you check the PageStack element in, you'll find that pop has this signature: PageStack::pop ( page, immediate ) -> Pops a page off the stack. If the page is specified then the stack is unwound to that page; null to unwind the to first page. If the immediate argument is true then no transition animation is performed. Returns the page instance that was popped off the stack.17:21
spenapthere's also a PageStack::replace ( page, properties, immediate ) method17:21
spenaphope that helps17:21
Kypelispenap: Thaks! I'll look into that.17:22
spenap:), np17:22
alteregoTheBootroo: part of the reason I wanted to have gst-tools package.17:22
alteregoI might have to build it myself ..17:22
TheBootrooalterego: ok17:22
TheBootrooalterego: tell me when you finished ;-)17:23
alteregoWell, that's if I get around to it ;)17:24
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Kypelispenap: Thanks for the tip, that solved the issue!17:40
spenapgreat :)17:40
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Kypelispenap: Although it due seems like a kludge and popping twice not working seems like a bug...17:40
Kypelipopping twice not working - I mean :)17:40
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spenapthen, maybe you could file a bug: if from the docs you feel like it's not following the expected behaviour, it's a bug either in the docs or in the behaviour :D17:42
KypeliTrue :)17:42
KypeliI might wait for the final release first...17:42
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Venemo_N950hmm, my irc client is taking shape17:46
Venemo_N950it won't be long until it becomes actually usable17:46
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wazdRST38h: I had a vision18:01
wazdRST38h: I'll show it in 10 minutes :)18:02
rm_workgreat prophet wazd? :P18:03
wazdrm_you: sorta :D18:03
RST38hwazd: ? =)18:04
RST38hwazd: lemme guess, each of the ti model icon is gonna be a HelloKitty face?18:05
wazdRST38h: damn! You had it too!18:07
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Venemo_N950hm, could anyone help me please?18:15
Venemo_N950I need someone to send me a private message, so that I can see how my irc client reacts18:15
mgedminVenemo_N950, feel free18:16
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* Jaffa mutters about (and UK) and the hopeful way he'd been defending the lack of availability on nokia.com18:16
Venemo_N950spenap, thanks18:16
Venemo_N950spenap, did you get my answer?18:16
spenapVenemo_N950, yes18:16
fiferboyJaffa: I just saw that :(18:17
mgedminVenemo_N950, is this N950 nick registered with nickserv?18:19
vladestJaffa: US citizens will enjoy with brilliant wp7 :>18:19
Venemo_N950interestingly enough, I send the private message reply as plain Message, not PRIVMSG or NOTICE18:20
Venemo_N950but it's good that you still get it18:21
qgilhi, anybody with an N950 / N9 willing to give feedback about my not-so-so-dummy Miniature chess UI package?
povbotBug 12315: Placeholder to upload Miniature UI source and packages18:22
MeeGoBotBug nor, Medium, ---, alexey.kuznetsov, RELE FIXED, libmeegochat should be ported to telepathy-qt4 0.5.x18:22
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wazdRST38h: ?18:27
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* mgedmin is, sadly, without a working N950 at the moment18:27
* mgedmin wonders if qgil received his email18:27
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qgilmgedmin: yes I did and actually my planned answer was 'check the email that was written down in the ACCEPTED email you got, since N950 device related problems are handled by Nokia Developer directly'18:30
qgilmgedmin: does this serve as an answer?  :)18:31
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mgedminqgil, do you mean the "If there are problems with the process please contact" bit?18:32
mgedminI wasn't sure if problems with the *device* counted as problems with the process18:32
qgilmgedmin: yep18:32
qgilmgedmin: fair enough, now you know  :)18:33
mgedminthanks, I'll get out of your hair now :)18:33
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lardmanwhat's the deal with QSettings application settings, are they backed up automatically, or do I need to extract them, write to file and back that up?18:34
fiferboyVenemo_N950: You parted here and the private msg18:34
fiferboy(I have part messages turned off so I had to check the user list)18:34
Venemo_N950fiferboy, ok :)18:35
fiferboylardman: How are you using QSettings? ini file? I can't remember what the Linux default is18:35
SpeedEvilmgedmin: Still exhibiting bad blocks?18:35
Venemo_N950something screwed up the autocompletion... :(18:35
Venemo_N950fiferboy, could you privmsg me again?18:35
SpeedEvilmgedmin: :/18:38
mgedminnow it won't boot at all18:38
lardmanfiferboy: seems it is a conf file
fiferboylardman: I usually specify a location and ini format, but I think a conf file will go to .config18:39
fiferboyAnd then whatever you registered your app name is18:39
SpeedEvilmgedmin: Interesting - so the flasher program apparantly boots it into an image18:40
mgedmininteresting how the flasher fails at an earlier point after each attempt18:40
mgedmincould it have run out of spare blocks for write leveling?18:40
mgedminI don't quite see how that would be possible...18:41
thpmgedmin: still no luck with the reflash?18:42
mgedminmaybe fbreader forces an sqlite fsync() every 30 seconds, and that causes a write? but I only read 4 books during the last couple of weeks18:42
mgedminlove the "unsuccess" message flasher gives18:42
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thpmgedmin: did you try cold flashing? for this, you have to extract the flasher out of the single-click flasher package18:44
mgedminI don't even know what cold flashing is18:45
thpme neither. but sometimes it has been suggested to me that a cold flash could help18:46
thpit's described in flasher's help18:46
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SpeedEvilmgedmin: yes, that sort of thing can be caused by running out of spare blocks.18:46
thp(compared to previous flashers, the harmattan flasher has really informative help texts)18:46
SpeedEvilmgedmin: This can be due to actual hardware faults - for example cracks even.18:47
mgedminSpeedEvil, hmm!18:47
rm_workqgil: i can try the chess thing when i get home, internet/3G signal is no bueno in the office :(18:47
kimjumgedmin, did you already contact nokia about that?18:48
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mgedminI sent an email to qgil, and then re-sent it to just now18:48
SpeedEvilmgedmin: Unfortunately, there is no nice way for the MMC to signal 'I am broken' in a graceful way - it just gives block errors - that may move round the disk.18:49
lardmanfiferboy: yep, so looks like I need to back it up myself then18:50
Venemo_N950fiferboy, have you received "i added the option to query a user" in a query?18:50
mgedminI've noticed it had trouble rebooting pretty early on, but then it used to come up nicely after that 'device malfunctioning' screen, and things worked18:50
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mgedminfor a couple of weeks18:50
fiferboylardman: Yes, I haven't looked at the backup process for Harmattan yet18:50
lardmancan't back up a dir any more, has to be a file18:51
lardmanso you need a backup (and restore)s script to generate e.g. a tar file18:51
lardmannot too bad, but docs could do with some examples18:51
rm_workJaffa / fiferboy / GAN900 : WUT18:52
rm_workJaffa / fiferboy / GAN900 : ^^^ n9 not in the US18:53
fiferboyrm_work: Looks that way :(18:53
GAN900rm_work, lol.18:53
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GAN900The world is going down in flames.18:54
GAN900Welcome to the New World Order. :P18:54
rm_workthis is just retarded18:55
rm_worki've been trying to stay upbeat and keep morale up around here for a while18:55
rm_workbut this just fucking takes the cake18:55
fiferboyrm_work: It is hardly surprising - North America doesn't get the top end Nokias18:58
GAN900Idiocy everywhere.18:58
rm_workis this because americans are morons?18:59
Jaffafiferboy: The UK does, though18:59
rm_worki mean, i'm not arguing it :P18:59
fiferboyJaffa: Yes, that is a bit more unexplainable18:59
rm_workamericans as a whole totally are retarded18:59
JaffaElop is N. American. Point proven ;-)19:00
rm_workOH SHIT19:00
rm_workElop is from the US?19:00
rm_workcan we disown him somehow?19:00
rm_workwhats the term for that19:00
* fiferboy forgets Elop is from his home town >_>19:00
rm_workif you ever manage to use a time machine... go back and punch him in the face for me plzkthx19:01
rm_workgod damnit.19:02
rm_workany sort of marketing whatsoever maybe? no?19:02
rm_worki guess they had those 9 second clips or whatever19:02
rm_workcause that was such a pinnacle of marketing genious19:02
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rm_worki'm sure all 10 people who actually heard they existed were really swayed by their 9 seconds of wtf19:03
fralselop is canadian, not usa19:05
rm_workwhew, close call19:06
hiemanshuwell everything from canada is stupid either ways19:06
alteregoMight as well be American19:06
* hiemanshu runs19:06
rm_workyeah, canada is basically the US anyway :P19:07
* rm_work also runs19:07
fiferboyYou guys better watch out >:-(19:07
GAN900alterego, not hardly.19:07
alteregoIt's like the pretty sane part of the US19:07
rm_workwhat, the mounties will come get us? :P19:08
hiemanshufiferboy: I am in India, you cannot track me even I told you exactly where I lived19:08
fiferboyMounties always get their man!19:08
rm_workman, but seriously, this is STUPID19:08
rm_worknot even releasing the phone in the US...19:09
rm_workwhy do i even try19:09
rm_worki may as well just go buy an android19:09
hiemanshuor an iPhone19:09
rm_workmay i can pick up android SDK19:09
fiferboyrm_work: No!19:09
fiferboyrm_work: Trust me, the Android SDK is not that exciting19:09
rm_workfiferboy: i suppose it doesn't matter for me anyway, i have n950 until they pry it from my cold, dead hands :P19:09
fiferboyrm_work: There you go - if you think only about yourself everything is fine :D19:10
rm_worksince i didn't really want the n9 anyway, just the n950 :P19:10
rm_workbut it's depressing19:10
rm_worksince no one is going to HAVE the phone for me to write apps for <_<19:10
hiemanshumeh, its fun being selfish19:10
hiemanshurm_work: write apps for what you'll use yourself19:10
fiferboyI think Jaffa has it way worse: he was right to expect it would be available in the UK19:10
rm_worki was hoping maybe for once i could write apps and people i meet in the US might ACTUALLY have heard of the phone i work on19:11
hiemanshuthey are launching it in India though19:11
rm_workdid they confirm it isn't launching in the UK?19:11
rm_workwas this some sort of microsoft contract thing? can't compete in the major english speaking markets?19:12
alteregoIt'll come to the UK, I'm sure.19:12
fiferboyrm_work: To about the same level as they confirm it won't be in the states19:12
GAN900rm_work, saw a guy with an N900 yesterday19:13
rm_workGAN900: lolwut19:14
fiferboyGAN900: :-O19:14
rm_workthat just... doesn't happen19:14
hiemanshuI know about 10 people with N900s19:14
hiemanshuas in met em19:14
rm_worki've only ever seen 3 other people in the US with an N90019:14
rm_workone of them is a friend that bought it based on my recommendation19:14
hiemanshuI have seen people with a N900 in 200919:14
fiferboyI've NEVER seen one in the wild in Cananda19:14
hiemanshuNokia/Maemo had a stall at a FOSS event19:14
rm_workone of them is a friend that got it the same time as me, when they gave them out at the summit19:15
fiferboyOf course, Canadian wilds are pretty vast..19:15
hiemanshurm_work: no devs?19:15
hiemanshufiferboy: meh canada19:15
rm_workand one of them i met at TX LinuxFest, who apparently also got it at the summit19:15
* hiemanshu runs19:15
* hiemanshu wonders if rm_work has me on ignore or something19:15
rm_workwas finishing typing those out :P19:16
rm_worki only put trolls on /ignore :P19:16
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rm_workno devs really19:16
rm_workjust me19:16
fiferboyhiemanshu: I'm about to put you on ignore :P19:16
rm_workbut that's good19:16
hiemanshufiferboy: hah19:16
hiemanshurm_work: I know a few maemo/meego devs that I met who have an N900 from as long as I know em19:16
rm_workthere's a difference between trolling and poking fun in good faith :P19:16
hiemanshuand a few I know who even have a N95019:17
rm_workhiemanshu: i don't know any other maemo/meego devs IRL that i didn't first meet at a maemo event19:17
rm_worki may have the only N950 in Texas, besides if Texrat has one19:17
rm_workguessing GAN900 has the only one in Florida19:18
rm_workthere's probably... what, 10 in the US?19:18
fiferboyqole probably has the only one in BC19:18
fiferboyBut I know of at least three others in Ontario19:18
rm_workwait, where are you?19:18
rm_workoh nm that's ok19:19
rm_workwas afraid you were in Montreal19:19
fiferboyrm_work: Only if it is against my will, and not in at least 8 years :)19:19
rm_workyeah, that place should be cordoned off19:19
rm_workand big warning signs placed around it19:20
rm_workContinue at your own peril!19:20
hiemanshurm_work: every flight to .ca should be cancelled, Reason: For you own good, who wants to go there anyways19:21
fiferboyrm_work: You said you work with some Montreal guys?19:21
rm_workBC is nice :P19:21
* hiemanshu runs avoiding bumping into fiferboy19:21
rm_workfiferboy: true19:21
rm_workand i have to go through all kinds of BS because they passed laws that REQUIRE all user interfaces for computer software be made available in both english AND french19:22
fiferboyhiemanshu: Don't worry, in Ontario there are 14 people per km^2, you won't bump into me :)19:23
rm_workso for our company of 25,000 employees, of whom 24400 speak english, i have to translate everything I do >_<19:23
hiemanshurm_work: if I could have my way, I would replace everything with icons, and send write a legend instead19:23
rm_workinto french19:23
rm_workit's just a PITA19:24
hiemanshufiferboy: well yeah, India is really really populated, so you would bump info half a million people before bumping into me19:24
fiferboyTwo different worlds19:24
rm_workabout 75% of the people that work in the IS dept here are indian19:24
hiemanshuyeah, Indians are taking over!19:24
fiferboyrm_work: How do you go about translating?19:24
rm_workfiferboy: we have a guy who defected from french canada like 10 years back19:25
rm_workhe does initial translations, and then we pass them over to *them* for QA19:26
rm_workthat or I pass it through google translate and call it good :P19:26
fiferboyhiemanshu: Canada pop density: 3.731; India pop density: 36819:27
fiferboyGoogle translate should be good enough for anyone19:27
rm_workwe've got like 3 Subramanian's working here19:27
rm_workstill trying to figure out how to pronounce that right19:28
hiemanshufiferboy: yup, just like I said19:29
GAN900rm_work, one of three I know of.19:31
fiferboy7 of the top 10 most densly populated citys in the world are in india19:31
GAN900The two others were purchased on my recommendation.19:31
GAN900rm_work, how is that even remotely the government's business? . . . .19:32
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rm_workGAN900: was referring to N950, with you being the only one in Florida19:33
rm_workand yeah, they're being dicks about "we speak french, LISTEN TO US DAMNIT WE SPEAK FRENCH" like whiny little babies19:33
rm_workall the french canadians i've talked to sound like they have a stick up their ass19:34
rm_workand they work 34 hour weeks19:34
rm_workand we'll be in the middle of a crazy launch working 11 hour days and they're like "sorry, we're going home, good luck with your deadline. what's that? you need translations done to comply with our province's laws? well, it'll have to be done on monday, have a good working weekend!"19:35
fiferboyrm_work: Lucky I'm not French Canadian19:35
rm_workyeah :P19:36
GAN900rm_work, oh, I'm surel19:36
GAN900I hate hour-limited work week laws.19:36
GAN900Damn statist bastards should all go die.19:37
rm_worki can't believe that the only racism i really subscribe to ends up being against French Canadians >_>19:37
rm_workwtf is that about19:37
GAN900fiferboy, well, you wouldn't be here if you were. :P19:37
rm_workwho's racist against french canadians >_>19:37
GAN900rm_work, it's not racism.19:37
GAN900It's tribalism.19:37
rm_workgood differentiation i guess :P19:37
GAN900It's not their genetic heritage you're worried about19:37
rm_worki guess it's Culturism19:37
GAN900it's cultural and political heritage.19:37
rm_workalso i don't like people who are dicks19:38
rm_workand they're a whole city of dicks19:38
rm_workask anyone who has been there and doesn't speak french19:38
GAN900The vast majority of things people play the race card on these days are actually tribalist.19:38
rm_workbbl, lunch19:38
fiferboyrm_work: I worked with a guy in Toronto who was straight out of Quebec - he was the nicest guy o_O19:38
* rm_work lunches19:38
fiferboyIt was weird19:39
rm_workmaybe our company's office in quebec just hires dicks? >_> but no, because everyone i talk to who has vacationed there said they got treated like complete shit as tourists19:39
rm_workmaybe they just don't like tourists? or programmers?19:40
* rm_work really goes to lunch19:40
fiferboyThat could be19:40
GAN900Come to Florida!19:40
GAN900We like our tourists. :P19:40
fiferboyGAN900: I head some of the bookstore clerks can be sarcastic to Candian Tourists :-O19:41
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Venemo_N950fiferboy, sorry, I had no time to push, had to leave cuse my train leaves shortly19:52
rcghey Venemo_N950: looks like you're making progress :)19:52
fiferboyVenemo_N950: NP19:54
alteregoShame we don't even have a qml viewer package.19:55
hardaker2rm_work: I just spent a week in Quebec for work (as a programmer).  I had no one treat me poorly.  Everyone was quite nice...  But I was inside *way* too much.19:55
hardaker2that was quebec city though, which is tourist central and thus they probably have to cater to tourists.19:56
Venemo_N950rcg, yeah, I am :)19:57
Venemo_N950fiferboy, it still segfaults when I try to close a query though19:58
Venemo_N950but at least it now wraps longer lines19:58
fiferboySounds like good progress20:00
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Doesn't segfault when you part a chan?20:00
Venemo_N950fiferboy, nope20:00
Venemo_N950fiferboy, very curious, isn't it20:01
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Venemo_N950my guess would be that it's something obvious that I didn't notice20:02
Jaffarm_work: alterego: CPW have said no to N9 in UK, but they could be referring to direct from them off-contract (not that they sell many phones like that)20:03
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Venemo_N950hm, it kinda works with portrait vkb20:05
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alteregoJaffa: lame, well, I guess we'll see.20:12
Venemo_N950but landscape vkb covers too much of the gui for it to be actually usable20:13
alteregoI'll just have to get one imported :/20:15
Venemo_N950alterego :(20:15
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Venemo_N950I will also have to implement some way to handle random disconnects20:27
Venemo_N950fiferboy, since you're good with qml, can I ask your opinion about something?20:32
hardaker2who's in charge of libssl?  rzr?20:33
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Sure20:34
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Venemo_N950fiferboy, which approach is better? having a listmodel containing the irc messages and switching the model once the user switches channels20:36
Venemo_N950having a signal for the messages and listening to that signal from qml20:37
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Venemo_N950and then adding the messages to a TextArea20:37
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Hmm20:38
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lcukVenemo_N950, you mean one listmodel per channel?20:38
fiferboyVenemo_N950: I like to have models handle my data for me20:38
alteregoMe too ..20:39
fiferboyVenemo_N950: But you could also consider a single model for all channel messages and filter it based on the current channel20:39
alteregoI'd switch out the model on changing channel, though it depends on what kind of effect you want to have when transitioning between channels.20:39
alteregoThat'd work.20:39
* hardaker2 misses table models20:39
hardaker2or even: x: max(all-other-element-widths)20:40
* lcuk misses supermodels20:40
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RST38hGentlemen, could someone help me with QMainWindows?20:42
RST38hCan I have more than one in my app?20:42
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hardaker2RST38h: should be able to, assuming you want multiple windows.20:43
hardaker2but I'm guessing.20:43
RST38hI am getting double window decorations =(20:43
fiferboyRST38h: I _think_ you can, but IIRC there may be some handling issues20:43
fiferboyRST38h: You are only showing one window at a time?20:44
RST38hfiferboy: yep20:45
RST38hfiferboy: I am getting double decorations and noQMLtoolbar in my second window20:46
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Venemo_N950fiferboy, sorry, I went through an are which according to my N950 had no coverage20:49
Venemo_N950so, option 1. having a list model in c++ and a repeater in qml, option 2. having a signal in c++ and listening to that in qml, option 3. having a string  property in c++ and binding to that in qml20:51
Venemo_N950fiferboy, in your opinion, which one is better?20:51
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fiferboyVenemo_N950: I like listmodel + repeater20:58
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Although in stead of a textarea you could have a listview with a delegate to display message information20:58
Venemo_N950well, I'm not using a textarea21:00
Venemo_N950you can see how I do it now in gitorious21:00
Venemo_N950problem with  listmodel+repeater is that I can't make it selectable21:00
fiferboyVenemo_N950: If the list view uses a Text {} element in the delegate, you can't make that selectable?21:02
fiferboyAlso, I'm not sure why you need a repeated with a model/listview setup21:02
Venemo_N950Text element is not selectable21:03
Venemo_N950even if it were, I'd have no way to have multiline selections21:03
Venemo_N950fiferboy, I use repeater instead of a listview.21:04
Venemo_N950I use a QObjectListModel<MessageModel> and use that as a model for a repeater21:04
Venemo_N950but this approach has no way of selecting text21:05
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Ah, I see your issue21:06
fiferboyText selection doesn't come into play with the models I use21:06
Venemo_N950fiferboy, so what do you recommend?21:09
fiferboyVenemo_N950: You could use the listview highlight and hightlight range to select and copy that way21:09
fiferboyBut then you couldn't do partial lines...21:09
TronicHas N950 been available to USA/UK?21:10
Tronic(re: N9 not being released there)21:10
Venemo_N950fiferboy, this is why I proposed to simply have one QString property and bind that out to a TextArea21:10
fiferboyVenemo_N950: Yeah, for your purposes that might be easiest21:11
fiferboyHow are you doing it now?21:12
Venemo_N950fiferboy, as I said.21:16
Venemo_N950fiferboy, QObjectListModel<MessageModel> displayed in a repeater21:16
fiferboyVenemo_N950: And are there issues with this way?21:17
Venemo_N950fiferboy, yes, the inability to select text21:17
dm8tbrhey, quick question. could someone do an 'ls -lR / >/ls.txt' on the normal dev firmware and upload that?21:18
fiferboyVenemo_N950: D'oh, I have been misunderstanding the problem this who time21:18
dm8tbrI don't have access to a device with that firmware right now21:18
Venemo_N950fiferboy, how did you understand it?21:19
fiferboyVenemo_N950: So listview won't help you out, and that leaves a textarea21:19
fiferboyVenemo_N950: I thought you had text selection working in your current method but needed something else from it21:19
fiferboyAnd didn't want to switch to a none text-selecting method21:19
Venemo_N950fiferboy, nope. I have a method which disallows me to select text and I wanna switch to one that allows it21:21
Venemo_N950fiferboy, what I wanted to know was if there is a saner way you can think of21:21
Venemo_N950after all, this is a bit ugly21:22
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: hey21:24
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: it works21:24
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, yes, more or less21:25
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: ah nice, have you pushed the code?21:25
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, hardcoded to freenode for the time being21:25
hiemanshuyeah you told me taht21:26
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, I haven't had the time to push it... else I would have been late for my train21:26
hiemanshuhah ok21:26
hiemanshuwell, do it when you get home, I'll start fixing the stuff21:26
Venemo_N950really? that's nice of you :)21:26
hiemanshuyeah, I need to add multiple server support before I can start using it :P21:27
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: did you even hardcode the channel?21:28
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, nope21:32
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: so /j #channel works?21:33
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, it won't be hard to implement any of that, I just haven't had the time yet21:33
hiemanshuah ok21:33
hiemanshuwell, push the code when you can, I'll probably have time once I get home from work tomrrow21:33
Venemo_N950hiemanshu, nope. /commands don't work yet. but I have a join buton21:33
Venemo_N950all right21:34
Venemo_N950that is kind of you hiemanshu21:34
hiemanshuI have been so busy with work and GSoC and moving houses right now21:34
hiemanshuwish I had more time to fix stuff21:35
Venemo_N950no problem, I have similar problems21:35
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wazdRST38h: ping?21:44
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wazdmeh :(21:46
wazdAll then: :) Any opinions?21:47
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wazdSpeedEvil: refresh please :)21:48
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SpeedEvilyou have a calculator inside your calculator to calculate while you calculate?21:49
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mgoetzis there any magic way to speed up the harmattan QEMU from the Qt SDK? I'm using OS X21:51
mgoetzi expected it to be slow.. but not 1-sec-delay-when-flicking-QML-listview-with-mouse :(21:51
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* npm wonders whether anthony weiner's photos are among the "top 5 masterful molome photographs"21:57
wazdSpeedEvil: exactly dawg! :D22:01
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IlosanomaAnyone know what's the canonical way to show the section headers in ListView? So that it's shown in platform's style. I didn't see anything helpful in Harmattan Qt Components nor UiConstants. The bundled examples didn't have anything either.22:40
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fiferboyIlosanoma: You mean to have the section heading styled properly?22:41
fiferboyI haven't seen anything on that either22:41
Ilosanomafiferboy: yeah, that's what I mean22:41
IlosanomaI guess there's at least that line thingy as image lurking somewhere in the themes22:42
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fiferboyYeah, if you can figure out what it is called :/22:44
IlosanomaRight, I'm trying to find it from the SDK's sysroot at the moment22:45
javispedroaegis partially broken22:45
fiferboymeegotouch-view-header apparently22:45
fiferboyAlthough there are (like everything) lots of variants22:46
fiferboyOh, no that is the page (view) header, not the list header section, sorry!22:46
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fiferboymeegotouch-list-header-background looks like what you want22:46
Ilosanomafiferboy: thanks! I didn't find that one in SDK's sysroot, I guess it's not there only in the proper theme on the device22:48
fiferboyI'll let you know if it looks right :)22:49
Ilosanomaah good, it has inverted variant also22:53
fiferboyScratch that: let me know if it looks right :)22:54
IlosanomaI will, as soon as I've read enough about QML again to know how to display it (QML newbie)22:55
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Venemo_N950good evening23:01
IlosanomaEvening Venemo23:02
Venemo_N950what's up?23:02
IlosanomaThey say Aegis has been broken, and in lesser problems we're just trying to figure out how to show listView's section headers in platform style23:03
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kimjubroken in what sense?23:07
Ilosanomafiferboy: meegotouch-groupheader-background seems to be the correct one23:07
Ilosanomakimju: I don't know, this stuff flies straight over my head. See the link javispedro posted.23:09
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Venemo_N950all these channels are so quiet that I was afraid that it disconnected me again23:15
IlosanomaWell, it did.23:15
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SpeedEvilkimju: Can be turned off.23:29
SpeedEvilFrom userspace23:29
SpeedEvilLetting you do arbitrary stuff.23:29
kimjudetails, please? :)23:30
SpeedEvilI assume it's being written up now.23:30
SpeedEvilI don't have details.23:30
IlosanomaYeah, tjat23:31
Ilosanomathat's good thing. Nokia has then time to fix it before N9 release o/23:31
fiferboyIlosanoma: Good to know, thank!23:35
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IlosanomaI'd like to know if there's anything more cursed among developers than Aegis. And even more, I'd like to read a paper which specific threats it aims to protect from and with what solutions. So far I have just a very vague idea about the whole system.23:38
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SpeedEvilThe basic idea of aegis being a good thing - or some similar framework emerged back around a couple of years ago now.23:39
SpeedEvilIt was at a time when Maemo was going to be the way forward, and it was going to power hundreds of millions of phones across dozens of products.23:39
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SpeedEvilAgainst this background, it was felt that it was worthwhile implementing a usable security system, to enable - for example - hulu clients, or ... that vendors might require IP security.23:40
SpeedEvilAs a side-effect, it also means that the phones can in principle if they choose to go that way be sold so you can only get approved apps to run, and only through the app-store.23:41
ieatlintand the fact that there is more malware for symbian than any other smartphone system and nokia wanted to try and prevent that23:41
IlosanomaSpeedEvil: Do I understand correctly, that Aegis is shackles imposed upon users by content providers?23:41
SpeedEvilDebatably at this point.23:42
kimjuI actually like few features of aegis.23:42
SpeedEvilI question if any vendors are actually going to be put off the n9 platform by that.23:42
kimjuit is just that I can't completely override it when *I* want to do so.23:42
SpeedEvilThat aren't put off by the low effort Nokia's puttinginto launch.23:42
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SpeedEvil(the above is largely speculation on motives, but based on what has come out of nokia in terms of presentations and ...23:43
IlosanomaThat leaves even worse smell of Aegis into my nose than before. I thought it was to preserve the system's integrity against malicious programs etc.23:43
SpeedEvilIlosanoma: It's not really one or the other, it's both.23:43
ieatlintthe fact that the sdk lacks any aegis integration is what irks me23:43
ieatlintsymbian was the same... it should have a UI to do the manifest files, and the ability to detect which capabilities you need23:44
IlosanomaSpeedEvil: hopefully so... though I'm yet to be convinced it can protect against malware. As far as I've understood, you pack up a .deb and it's approved by Aegis to be run. But I don't know about the system enough.23:44
kimjuIlosanoma, it protects against software from unknown origins. it also provides secured storage for sensitive data. it can prevent malicious programs (even after installing) from doing some bad things..23:45
kimjuit is definedly not only a bad thing.23:45
SpeedEvilIlosanoma: Sure - in its present config.23:46
SpeedEvilIlosanoma: However, it doesn't have to be setup to allow packages signe by you to run.23:46
ieatlintaegis is a security system, and like all security systems it creates inconvenience23:48
ieatlintthe only question is whether the inconvenience is worse than the security problems it fixes23:49
ieatlintand that's debatable :P23:49
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