IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-08-04

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Venemodjszapi, we'll talk about it tomorrow.00:01
Venemogood night everyone!00:01
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thpwazd: :)01:19
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* GeneralAntilles has had very little energy for hacking this week.03:44
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GeneralAntillesDamn 60+ work weeks.03:44
SpeedEvil48h limit in the UK - caused moderate problems with junior doctors.03:48
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GeneralAntillesUgh, labor laws.03:53
GeneralAntillesDoing more harm than good since your great grandfather worked the salt mines.03:53
SpeedEvilI'm unsure. I think it's probably sane to regulate the hours of some professions.03:54
SpeedEvilFor example - drivers, doctors, ...03:54
SpeedEvilAs a general regulation over all workers?03:55
GeneralAntillesWell, people are different03:55
GeneralAntillesIf you can't function at a certain level, that's you and your employer's responsibility.03:55
GeneralAntillesIf a hospital is regularly fielding doctors who are too tired to function then care will suffer03:55
GeneralAntillesand customers will take note03:55
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antman8969docscrutinizer, you in here?06:58
dm8tbrunless he's hiding under a different nick, then it doesn't look like it, does it?07:04
SpeedEvilHe's in other channels.07:05
SpeedEvilHe's rather irritated at the whole aegis thing at the moment.07:05
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antman8969new aegis thing? or just the same old07:06
dm8tbrsame old, really07:06
antman8969yea it's unfortunate, especially with what he's trying to do07:06
SpeedEvilI share some of his concern about aegis - how it's configured in the released n9 totally determines if it's a usable device or not.07:07
SpeedEvil(from some points of view)07:07
dm8tbrthat are two separate things though.07:07
antman8969well, if there will be any worthy content07:07
antman8969or did you mean usable as a main device for a dev07:08
SpeedEvilIf, for example, to do hostmode, you need to boot your own kernel, which won't support aegis, which means that the phone, maps, ... don't work, then it's kinda hard.07:08
antman8969did they talk about why they decided to go aegis in the first place?07:08
dm8tbrSpeedEvil: that is pretty clear, musb_hdrc seems compiled in and without host mode. so it needs either an own kernel or an different kernel signed by nokia07:09
SpeedEvilMy view is that aegis was being designed (at least in concept) back in 2009ish07:09
SpeedEvilIt may not have been being coded in the form that aegis is now.07:09
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SpeedEvilThe design was for when there were going to be a hundred million or so maemo phones.07:09
dm8tbrantman8969: aegis implements a concept that is being pushed by the mobile phone operators07:09
SpeedEvilIt was going to take over all of the high end of nokias handsets.07:10
antman8969why such a harsh system though?07:10
dm8tbrantman8969: see my last statement07:10
SpeedEvilAt that point - you possibly do have to do concessions to get it shipped by some operators in volume.07:10
SpeedEvilAnd some content providers will want 'nasty' DRM.07:10
antman8969I'm unfamiliar with the actual concept you're referring to dm8lbr, care to elaborate?07:11
SpeedEvilIf however, it's going to sell perhaps 500K-2M, many content providers will be entirely uninterested in the platform.07:11
SpeedEvilThey want increasing control over apps run on phones.07:11
SpeedEvilAlso aegis has the happy side-effect of facilitating an app-store.07:13
SpeedEvilAegis does all you want of a solution that only lets blessed binaries run.07:13
SpeedEvilPerhaps with the addition of the ability to lock apps to a phone, which may require more configuration.07:14
dm8tbrand as far aegis is currently less of an angry beast that it could be07:14
dm8tbrlike e.g. requiring signing for most capabilities etc07:14
antman8969damage to the network in non secured environments? How  real of a threat is that....07:14
SpeedEvilantman8969: 'damage to the network' = 'revenue damage to the network' - this can take many forms.07:15
SpeedEvil'Ok, we'll take your phone, but only our VOIP client'.07:15
dm8tbrmobile phone operators are a crazy bunch07:15
SpeedEvilThe phone makers aren't the ones with the big stick. Unless they're apple.07:16
SpeedEvilThe cell company can simply refuse to subsidise handsets.07:16
SpeedEvilAnd bang.07:16
SpeedEvilInstead of $49.99 for 24 months, they are $900 up-front, and $29.99 per month07:17
dm8tbre.g. one rumour is that the N950 is not a consumer device because 'operators didn't want to subsidize a keyboard phone'07:17
SpeedEvilIf I was an operator.07:17
SpeedEvilI would be very worried about that horribly fragile looking hinge.07:18
antman8969well they allowed the tmobile g207:18
SpeedEvilg2 has a _huge_ amount more consumer pull than the n95007:18
antman8969I was originally looking for doc to get some input on his android hate, could you guys tell me what it is that prevents you from developing for android?07:19
antman8969looking for input07:19
SpeedEvilSeveral reasons.07:19
SpeedEvilFirstly, I do not consider it worthwhile developing or aiding systems that require 'rooting'.07:20
SpeedEvilThis is simply as it is quite technically possible to get a device that is completely secure against hackers.07:20
SpeedEvilAs long as you properly implement the trust chain - and have it audited by people with a clue, you can make it functionally bulletproof.07:21
SpeedEvilThis hasn't been done yet - but it doesn't mean it won't be.07:21
SpeedEvilSecondly, historically at least, there has been a reluctance to allow native code - this has obvious performance issues.07:22
SpeedEvilThirdly - the inability to access the android market unless your device is 'blessed'.07:22
antman8969referring to the developer fee?07:22
SpeedEvildevice, not app07:23
SpeedEvilThe approvals to get google to bless your device and let you access the android market are nasty.07:23
antman8969I guess what I am more curious about now.. I'm still a student so my development is a hobby. I'm not sure how people here generally support themselves07:24
antman8969are most people here developing for fun on the side of a 'real' job?07:24
SpeedEvilIn addition, I don't agree with what they're doing with the linux kernel.07:24
SpeedEvilMaintaining massive forks, and often vendors won't supply code in a timely manner.07:25
SpeedEvilI would guess that most in here are not paid directly to code on linux apps.07:25
SpeedEvilI honestly don't know what the breakdown is.07:26
SpeedEvilIt's more lively 10-7 hours ago, probably ask then.07:26
SpeedEvilFourthly - android is not linux. In may ways.07:26
SpeedEvilMaemo (at least 5) is pretty much a 'normal' linux system.07:26
antman8969basically you're against android on principal07:27
SpeedEvilWith some annoying binary blobs.07:27
SpeedEvilI consider it to be a useful counterweight against apple in the marketplace, but am ot sure it helps the cause of open phones much.07:28
SpeedEvilEspecially googles stance about the marketplace.07:28
SpeedEvilAnd the other google apps - maps.07:28
ieatlinthas anyone had an issue where the output of qDebug() isn't shown on the n950?09:00
ieatlinteither running the app via terminal, or via qtcreator...09:00
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ieatlintseems like qdebug messages from other threads don't display09:05
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ieatlintmeh, nm, worked around it well enough with a non-default debug handler09:12
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Stskeepssome good progress for the freedom loving people:10:09
StskeepsJan  1 01:00:07 (none) kernel: [    0.000000] Linux version ( (gcc version 4.4.1 (Sourcery G++ Lite 2010q1-202) ) #2 PREEMPT Thu Aug 4 08:55:12 CEST 201110:09
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dm8tbrStskeeps: \o/10:12
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Stskeepsthe bad news is that i had to get past a bug in bootloader that's not fixed in your current images :P10:32
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hiemanshuStskeeps: you got it working?11:08
Stskeepshiemanshu: right11:08
Stskeepsharmattan doesn't boot since i pulled aegis totally but it should be possible to do a controlled maiming11:08
hiemanshuStskeeps: newer kernels?11:08
Stskeepsnewer bootloader is what matters11:09
hiemanshuyeah, we will have to wait for that :(11:09
Stskeepswell hmm11:10
Stskeepsdidn't you say you played with kernel stuff?11:10
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dm8tbrStskeeps: can nolo be updated through OTA or by flasher?11:26
Stskeepsdm8tbr: flasher11:26
dm8tbras long as it's possible for PRD, then I think that would be acceptable11:27
Stskeepsmine has no rd certificate, so yes11:27
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hiemanshuStskeeps: yes I did, and it wouldn't even boot up sadly, so I had to just flash it11:55
Stskeepsok, did you get any messages/warranty message?11:55
hiemanshuI dont recall anything11:56
Stskeepsprolly hitting the same bug as i did11:56
hiemanshulets wait for a newer image then :)11:56
Stskeepswhen that comes i would suggest people to simply point kernel to a new init script, set up usb networking and such there and put messages out over that11:57
Stskeepsand then find a way to patch aegis away/maim it11:57
TermanaStill waiting for my N950. I think I might give DHL an ear full tomorrow12:01
w00t_Stskeeps: those missing APIs, i guess they're kernel side?12:01
hiemanshuTermana: I thought you got yours12:01
Termanahiemanshu, nope.12:02
Stskeepsw00t_: i disabled aegis in kernel ;)12:02
Stskeepswhich was a bit rough12:02
hiemanshuStskeeps: what functionality do you loose?12:03
TermanaSent out July 27th, in my main city on August 1st, been sitting on "Delivery arranged no details expected" since12:03
w00t_just wondering if it's possible to stub stuff out as a route to disabling it without breaking too much :)12:03
Stskeepshiemanshu: not sure if you really loose any functionality tbh12:03
Stskeepshiemanshu: of course security-related stuff12:03
TermanaDon't you lose a couple of the in-built apps, e.g. Drive12:03
hiemanshuStskeeps: which means no nokia account either?12:03
TermanaSomeone mentioned Drive relies on aegis12:04
hiemanshudrive relies on nokia account, not aegis12:04
Stskeepshiemanshu: no idea12:04
hiemanshuunless no aegis disabled the cell modem, wifi, or GPS, it should be ok12:07
* hiemanshu leaves for lunch12:07
Stskeepswe use those in CE, so no12:07
Stskeepsat least cell, wifi12:07
hiemanshuso now we are down to jailbreaking Maemo/Meego too :/12:08
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Termanahiemanshu, what do you mean? Are you specifically trying to apply that sentence to Harmattan?12:38
hiemanshuTermana: yes12:38
hiemanshuaegis wont work with H-E-N IIRC from what doc said12:39
fralswth does H-E-N stand for?12:53
* w00t_ clucks12:54
djszapihiemanshu: what does HEN stand for ?12:59
hiemanshufrals: usb host mode, no idea what it stands for12:59
hiemanshudjszapi: that should explain it13:00
djszapihiemanshu: you are wrong, it will work.13:04
djszapiif I am getting what you wanna achieve.13:04
djszapibut I think it is even written on the wikipage, actually.13:05
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hiemanshudjszapi:  DocScrutinizer said it doesn't so I dont really know13:08
hiemanshudjszapi: he is working on the hardware side, a few of us are only going to do the GUI13:11
hiemanshualso no doc and mohammadag in this chan :(13:11
djszapiI have also told him couple of times, it works. Let me not repeat myself all the time.13:11
djszapihe just speculates without knowing the fact.13:12
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kimjuas far as I understand aegis, there is nothing in it that would prevent usb-hostmode from working.13:12
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djszapiwell, it indeed has.13:13
djszapibut with your custom kernel (just in case like N900), it works oob.13:13
MohammadAGexcept booting another kernel13:13
kimjugetting your own kernel running (or not) in first place is not limited by aegis.13:13
hiemanshukimju: that is still technically *jailbreaking*13:13
MohammadAGStskeeps tried it, it doesn't (as of 22-6)13:13
djszapihiemanshu: just like N900 was.13:14
hiemanshudjszapi: right13:14
djszapino difference, but more whining :)13:14
hiemanshuwell only thing I hate about aegis really is not being able to delete files as root created by user13:14
hiemanshueverything else can be worked around13:14
djszapiyou still not having idea about the platform ?13:15
djszapiI cannot believe it...13:15
hiemanshuatleast so far13:15
hiemanshudjszapi: I do13:15
djszapino, your statement clearly states you do not.13:15
hiemanshubut being a linux user for quite a bit of time, I used to the idea of root being able to rm -rf users stuff13:15
djszapiharmattan != unix workstation. I am not sure why I need to repeat it gazillion times every day13:16
djszapibit tiresome...13:16
hiemanshudjszapi: you know that I am just ranting right13:16
GeneralAntillesdjszapi, probably not worth your time to continue trying to defeat rants. :)13:17
hiemanshuGeneralAntilles: o/13:17
hiemanshudjszapi: I love that aegis does what it does, but a few things about it is a no-go13:18
MohammadAGStskeeps, oh cool, 22-6?13:18
djszapiGeneralAntilles: sorry ?13:19
djszapihiemanshu: it might be that there is not enough resource nowadays, but what you say "no-go" makes zero sense.13:19
* frals steals Stskeeps IMEI number13:19
djszapiit would really be very very bad to havea unix workstation security.13:20
hiemanshudjszapi: the black screen of reflash :P13:20
hiemanshuBSoR :D13:20
djszapisorry ?13:20
hiemanshuthe device asking you to reflash when something is odd according to it13:20
djszapinot getting you.13:21
hiemanshudjszapi: when you do something stupid, like changing something in a file whose hash is stored, aegis will nuke the device, I understand this at the consumer level, not at the devel level13:24
djszapithere is nothing like that in the design.13:25
djszapiYou never provided steps to reproduce13:25
djszapiif you are just repeating the whining people without facts, I do not have sake to continue.13:25
hiemanshudjszapi: try changing a python script that requests a token, I made a typo in one, changed it, and boom, reflash13:26
djszapiis this really a concrete step set ?13:27
djszapiHave you ever reported bugs with proper steps ?13:27
hiemanshuyes and no13:28
hiemanshuthere was a blog post about it too13:29
hiemanshudjszapi: ^ read the last part, went through that13:29
djszapilot of misinformation in that blog and posts.13:31
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JaffaMorning, all13:34
MohammadAGis the RM-696 the N9?13:35
djszapioops, I might be wrong with it13:36
djszapiyep, it seems so.13:36
djszapihiemanshu: funky, I cannot reproduce this either13:37
djszapiI modified a shell scripting, works oob ...13:37
djszapi"works" as in no reflash need.13:38
hiemanshudjszapi: does the shell script request a token?13:39
djszapiyes, of course.13:39
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captainiglooOk this time i used the right method(i guess), i.e. i create debian packages for all my libs, and build them with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakerot inside scratchbox13:52
captainiglooand the binary can be launched :)13:52
captainigloobut only by using the terminal, not by using ssh13:53
captainiglooBut i have another issue. One of my libs install a binary wich is used to build a binary format in others libs. But when this binary is called inside scratchbox, i get a qemu segmentation fault13:55
djszapiI experienced that a lot with test cases, if it is not a test case it is even trickier since you cannot just disable it :(13:56
ieatlintMohammadAG: yes, the n9 is the RM-69613:56
StskeepsMohammadAG: sadly no, bug in bootloader. but later images it works on13:56
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captainigloodjszapi: if i build packages with OBS, it's using scratchbox for the build ?13:57
kimjuobs has similar functionality, but it doesn't use scratchbox as is.13:58
djszapicaptainigloo: nop, chroot13:58
* MohammadAG wonders if later images will have the same software on the N913:59
djszapisame as ?13:59
MohammadAGI know it's a dev device, but I kinda need skype13:59
djszapino, skype is not involved.13:59
MohammadAGoh well14:00
ieatlintcan you reveal if skype will be on the n9 though?14:00
djszapiI think it will be available of course.14:01
ieatlinti want a unicorn too14:02
djszapiI do not know unicorn :)14:02
JaffaMohammadAG: Skype's listed on; and Nokians have previously said the N950 will get the N9 release image made available to it14:02
ieatlintit's delicious like corn, but more singular14:03
djszapiJaffa: no, that is a different image14:03
djszapiwith different oem1 thing.14:03
Jaffadjszapi: Define "that"14:03
captainigloodjszapi: so i'm stucked until scratchbox doesn't launch my binary ...14:04
djszapiJaffa: n9 and n95014:04
djszapicaptainigloo: I would just try osc and if that works, I would be happy :)14:05
djszapiqemu is scary for those segfault things14:05
MohammadAGit already is available on the N9 (review units)14:05
captainigloowhat's osc ?14:05
MohammadAGseems like it's a separate application rather than telepathy-spirit though14:06
MohammadAGJaffa, I was referring to the next update14:06
fralsi would be surprised if n950 doesnt get the same software as n9 does when its out... but thats just me speculating etc, i have no clue about what really happens14:06
Jaffadjszapi: I don't understand; perhaps complete sentences would help? Skype is one of the advertised features on That implies it'll be "standard" in the N9 release, as it was in Fremantle. Nokia developer support people have said that when the N9 release is made, the N950 will get it.14:06
djszapiJaffa: if you read 10 lines back, you can realize that I said, it is not available on N950, but available N9 right now14:07
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djszapiI do not have crystal ball to know the future..14:07
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RzRdjszapi: hi14:07
JaffaMohammadAG: You mean an update to the N950, *before* the N9 is released? Has anyone said that's happening, because it wasn't when I was last online a week and a half ago14:07
djszapiRzR: hi, how are you ?14:07
RzRdjszapi: i build soprano finally14:07
djszapiawesome niftiness :)14:07
Jaffadjszapi: I know it's not available on the N950. MohammadAG knows it's not available on the N950; that's why he mentioned it.14:07
RzRdjszapi: that one is for you :
djszapithat is the hardest package ever :p14:08
ieatlinti do not think skype is currently available on the n9, iether14:08
djszapiit has not been working for 3 weeks or a bit more :p14:08
djszapiieatlint: it is ...14:08
djszapiI am using...14:08
captainiglooRzR: hi !14:08
RzRhi captainigloo , i am still on tls14:08
captainigloowhat are you doing here ?14:09
RzRroaming as always14:09
djszapiRzR: interestin, after 100% ?14:09
RzRcaptainigloo: I fixed libgcrypt1114:10
MohammadAGJaffa, afaik yes there will be one for MOSLO14:10
djszapiJaffa: and no, the latest N950 images do not contain skype, still.14:11
captainiglooRzR: i built packages in scratchbox, and i changed gnutls by openssl in packages descriptions14:11
ieatlintdjszapi: is it in the ovi store?14:11
RzRcaptainigloo: yes can you upload them ?14:12
captainiglooit works well for eina, eet, evas, ecore, embryo, edje, eio, expedite14:12
djszapiieatlint: what where ? :)14:12
captainiglooyes i will14:12
RzRcaptainigloo: the srcs not binarries14:12
captainigloobut now i'm stucked as edje is build binaries14:12
djszapiieatlint: skype is available by default on the N9 image.14:13
captainiglooand i can't launch it in scratchbox14:13
djszapiit would be worse if it was not the case...14:13
lcukgood afternoon fellow meego/harmattan professionals \o14:13
ieatlintweird, ok.. can you answer how recently it's been included?14:13
captainiglooRzR: i wonder if i will not have the same problem with obs14:13
ieatlintlike, within the past week, 2 weeks, month, etc?14:13
djszapilcuk heeeeey! :)14:14
captainiglooRzR: where would you like i upload them ?14:14
djszapiieatlint: for a relatively long time14:14
ieatlinthuh, ok, thanks14:14
captainiglooRzR: <= here ?14:14
djszapiRzr: I think I have no clue about the kdelibs issue :(14:14
RzRhome:rzr:harmattan is open for non debian sources14:14
RzRfor anyone14:14
RzRanyone we can trust :)14:15
RzRping me if you want to be added14:15
RST38hRzR: Will you accept a binary only package?14:15
RzRopensource or die14:15
RST38hnot useful then14:15
RST38hbut do continue on your quest14:16
captainiglooRzR: it seems that you already added me14:16
RzRRST38h: it's not a quest it's a survival question :)14:17
RST38hRzR: Nah, I can bring up my own repo and do whatever I want there14:17
RzRcaptainigloo: i confirm14:17
RST38hSo can everyone. And PackRat will index them too14:17
RzRRST38h: sure this is freedom too14:17
RST38hRzR: You are artifically restricting types of packages in your repo. It is not freedom, sorry.14:18
captainiglooRzR: ah and i use svn for the sources, so it's not a released version of the libs, it's a problem ?14:18
RzRso far no14:18
RzRplease name the release as 0.0.YYYYMMDD14:18
RzRi use this14:18
djszapicaptainigloo: no, it is not14:18
djszapijust use it how debian does then14:18
djszapiit is inevitable in some cases to not do that way.14:18
RzRthen if someone make a real release version it will be prefered id  r= > 0.0.x14:19
djszapiwell, date is not enough imho.14:19
djszapiI prefer also the commit number...14:19
captainiglooit's 1.0.999-114:19
djszapimore commits can happen one day.14:19
RzRplease name the release as 0.0.YYYYMMDD~svn$rev14:19
captainiglooyep i will do that14:19
RzRI prefer 0.0.x for snapshots14:19
captainigloohum, it's snapshots after the 1.0.114:20
RzRthat's the idea14:21
RzRunofficial build should not overide released one14:21
RzRif some one manage to package the 1.0.1 then that one will be installed14:22
djszapiRzR: any help is welcome about kdelibs..14:22
RzRelse it will install the higher known one which is 0.0.x14:22
RzRdjszapi: i'll try to, but i am very busy14:23
captainiglooyep but the app can be used with 1.0.1 and 1.0.99914:23
captainiglooit just bug correction and more api14:23
captainiglooapi/abi is not broken14:23
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djszapiRzR: ok, I am going to Berlin soon and I do not have time for two weeks or so :)14:24
djszapiRzR: interesting thing is that it never happened in my repository that way.14:25
RzRdifferent configuration different base etc14:26
djszapidifferent configuration, different case ?14:26
djszapiI submitted the some dependencies from my repository.14:26
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captainiglooarg, svn is not installable in scratchbox14:38
lcukcaptainigloo, svn is a "devkit"14:39
djszapicaptainigloo: at least, I used it14:39
lcukyou use sb-menu and add compiler + devkit items into a target14:39
djszapior just install scratchbox-devkit-svn14:40
lcukdjszapi, same thing I think?14:42
RzRare u running scratchbox on a meego desktop ?14:42
RzRside question ; what filemanager do you use in harmattan ?14:43
djszapilcuk: I guess, I am just a cli geek =p14:43
djszapiRzR: cli, cd, ls and so forth :)14:43
RzRso do i14:43
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RzRand how do you cut and paste from the terminal ?14:44
kimjuyou don't14:44
kimjuthat is still missing14:44
djszapiI do not :)14:44
djszapibut wasn't there a file manager alike competition few days ago ?14:45
RzRnext q , what editor are you using ?14:45
kimjubut I think c&p support is coming14:45
djszapiRzR: vi :)14:45
RzRthat one is great :
djszapigot a screenshot ?14:46
RzRdjszapi: i am a emacs dude , and i cant use it from terminal there is a C-c hack14:46
RzRinstall it and use import :)14:46
djszapino, thanks vi is enough for me =p14:47
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RzRif anyone here is bored please try to build that one :
captainigloolcuk: i'm using HARMATTAN_ARMEL and Devkit is already checked in sb-menu install14:50
captainigloobut svn is not found14:50
lcukcaptainigloo, djszapi gave alternative14:50
lcuk<djszapi> or just install scratchbox-devkit-svn14:51
djszapi(outside of sb for sure ;)14:51
captainiglooah that's the point :)14:51
lcukdjszapi, if you install it like that, does it get added to each of the targets?14:52
RzRcaptainigloo: install git-svn :)14:52
RzRor mount --bind and use host's one14:53
djszapiRzR: that will not work, different target.14:53
RzRdoes captainigloo need to run it in the target or just to fetch the sources ?14:53
RzRwell i am gone now14:54
RzRlater guys14:54
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djszapiRzR: well it is handy to use a log, diff and other things without changing tab or window.14:55
rZrfor a vi noob yes , emacs kings will use this time to hack elisp14:56
djszapiI was speaking about vcs...14:56
rZri do too14:56
djszapinot getting you then14:57
captainiglooi need to run it on the target14:57
rZrwell i am gone i said14:57
MohammadAGAnyone find it annoying having to click connect after tapping an access point?15:04
djszapino I could do it once in every blue moon since it is autoconnected after that15:05
MohammadAGI tapped an access point and kept trying to ssh in15:06
MohammadAGthen noticed I had to click connect15:06
djszapiyou saw that message it is "connected" after tapping ?15:06
djszapiI highly doubt15:06
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MohammadAGI'm just saying it should be the same as Maemo 515:18
djszapiI wish this would be the biggest problem seriously..15:19
djszapialso, there was a bug because of the capacity screen why it indeed is needed.15:20
lcukdjszapi, too sensitive whilst panning list?15:21
lcukie detecting taps instead of strokes15:21
MohammadAGthat means other lists should have double taps too15:21
MohammadAGit doesn't make sense15:21
lcukMohammadAG, some lists are more frustrating than others :P15:21
djszapibecause wi-fi connections can be changed rapidly....15:21
djszapinew network.....15:22
djszapiso you confirm you do connect to the proper network15:22
djszapiI do not see how this is relevant to any other list.15:22
MohammadAGchanged rapidly?15:22
djszapiwell yeah.15:22
MohammadAGthey don't have to be alphabatical15:23
djszapiwho speaks about alphabetical ?15:23
MohammadAGwell, what else?15:23
djszapiwell, if the update rate is fast15:23
djszapiyou can click on something when something is being appeared15:23
djszapiso you click on false network15:23
djszapiso confirmation is fine with me15:23
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> they don't have to be alphabatical15:23
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> alphabetical*15:23
MohammadAGadd networks as they're found15:23
djszapialso, you do need to do it once in every blue moon15:23
MohammadAGto the bottom of the list15:23
djszapiI did it 2-3 times in half a year or so15:24
MohammadAGno, actually I need to do it quite often cause it doesn't connect manually15:24
MohammadAGso just add networks to the bottom of the list, you won't make a mistake15:24
MohammadAGit worked on maemo 515:24
djszapimaemo 5 != maemo 615:24
djszapialso, it does connect automatically15:24
MohammadAGuser = user15:25
MohammadAGnot all the time, and it drops the connection for me at times15:25
djszapioh yeah, gnome user is also a user, so is a KDE user15:25
djszapiit is a very weak arguement, sorry )15:25
djszapiwell, wfm15:25
MohammadAGand wfm, but annoying and wfm aren't mutually exclusive15:26
djszapithis is whining category for me15:26
djszapiI am fine with tapping once every now and then for making sure, confirmation15:26
djszapiif there is a bug with autoconnection that I have never experienced, that is a completely different discussion15:27
hiemanshuwell for me, an automatic never some times ends up in the manual connection and gets very pissing off15:27
MohammadAGSigh, /me walks away15:27
djszapiAlso, alphabetical really helps a lot to find the network, thus I actually find it very useful15:29
djszapiI think this is a nice improvement to fremantle then..15:29
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lcukarg MohammadAG - do you know which /sys branch the compass comes from?16:00
MohammadAGnope, haven't delved in that far yet :P16:01
MohammadAGin fact, I couldn't find the state file for the keyboard slide yet16:01
MohammadAGyou know where the file for the accel is?16:02
lcukahh magnetometer16:02
lcukcompass reading16:02
djszapirZr: mmm, c-obs seems to be a bit buggy. Gluon does not build since it cannot find libalure-dev. However it is properly built in that repository.16:03
M4rtinK2is it possible to build things depending on OpnGL in COBS ?16:17
djszapiI do not see why not16:17
djszapithough, for mobile platform, you might need opengles16:17
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djszapithat would be a great addition, if you can help with that :016:17
M4rtinK2Clutter supports both normal and ES so it should not be a problem :)16:18
M4rtinK2but I remember something about building SDL & missing libraries16:18
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wazdHi all16:21
Stskeepslo wazd16:21
RST38hmoo wazd, seen the photo?16:21
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wazdRST38h: I guess not? :)16:22
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RST38hwazd: check the G+ feed16:23
wazdRST38h: wooo16:23
wazdRST38h: btw, has the guy from NR contacted you? :)16:24
RST38biswazd: Yea16:24
wazdRST38bis: awesome16:25
RST38biswazd: I doubt he will get his wish though, because they won't accept it without ROMs and it is prolly illegal to accept it with ROMs16:25
RST38bisEven if I only include the ones of archeological value16:25
wazdRST38h: he wanted it to be bundled with all the roms?16:25
RST38bisI do not think he understand it this deeply16:26
RST38bisHe just wants a pretty app, that is all16:26
MohammadAGJust an FYI everyone16:26
MohammadAGii  telepathy-spirit   0.7.4-9+0m6        Skype connection manager for Telepathy16:26
MohammadAGit's already installed, just not in the UI16:26
RST38bisWhich repo, Mohammad?16:26
RST38bisah ok16:26
MohammadAGii  telepathy-gabble   0.12.0+0maemo8+0m6 Jabber/XMPP connection manager16:27
MohammadAGthat too16:27
StskeepsMohammadAG: apt-cache search accounts16:27
Stskeepsor account16:27
RST38bisI suggest we catch and torture lcuk for details! =)16:27
MohammadAGE: Package account-plugin-skype has no installation candidate16:27
wazdRST38bis: well, is there a problem to bundle 85 and 86 roms?16:27
RST38biswazd: Yep. Even the 82 ROM16:28
macmaNMohammadAG: hard at work huh16:28
RST38biswazd: The problem is called "Texas Instruments legal department"16:28
wazdRST38h: meh16:28
MohammadAGmacmaN, something like that :P16:29
RST38biswazd: It is ok while the software has low profile, but once you start advertising it left and right, your probability to meet TI LD people rises16:29
wazdRST38bis: maybe we can add some obvious way to install roms like console emus do? :D16:30
SpeedEvil82 ROM?16:30
RST38biswazd: Well, I will add a warning dialog telling the user where to place ROMs16:30
RST38biswazd: But I doubt Ovi testing team will care16:30
RST38bisBTW, gentlemen, what is your approach to warning/message dialogs? Should I just use MTF for there, or is there a better way?16:31
wazdRST38h: damn, sometimes I relly hate this planet :(16:32
RST38biswazd: most console emulators do not need ROMs, so this point does not apply16:32
RST38biswazd: It is not the planet but the creatures inhabiting it16:32
RST38biswazd: Nothing an asteroid or some nice germs can't fix btw16:32
wazdRST38bis: well, virtually ATi doesn't need rom too16:33
MohammadAGmp-harmattan-rm680-pr yay we still have a metapackage16:34
StskeepsRST38bis: no such things as true windowed dialogs, just draw on top of your screen surface16:34
RST38biswazd: An airborne-transmittable syphilis strain would do wonders to the world population counts, for example. Easy transmission, long gestation periods, perfect16:34
RST38bisStskeeps: <facepalm>16:34
wazdSpeedEvil: yep16:35
RST38bisStskeeps: Actually, there is such a thing, QDialogs work, but they are kinda ugly16:35
RST38bisStskeeps: Based on the overall situation, it does sound like MTF is the most realistic method (with #ifndefed fallback to plain Qt)16:36
w00t_Stskeeps: well.. there is Dialog in components16:37
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fralsRST38bis: Dialogs/Banners are part of qt-components at least16:42
RST38bisfrals: I will not make the user wait for 2-3 second just to show a message16:44
RST38bisSo, yes, qtcomponents are ok to use in a qml app but not in the qt/mixed environment16:44
MohammadAGwell, gotta start working on my first QML app16:47
MohammadAGshould I use qt-components?16:47
hiemanshuMohammadAG: yeah, it has a lot of those missing components16:47
fiferboyMohammadAG: They make things a lot easier16:47
hiemanshuthat are missing in QML16:47
RST38bisMohammad: definitely16:48
RST38bisMohammad: unless you are willing to implement your own ui framework from scratch16:48
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MohammadAGlemme guess, they're preinstalled in QtSDK?16:52
fiferboyMohammadAG: You have to install the Harmattan section from the updater16:53
MohammadAGgot that16:53
fiferboyMohammadAG: You should be good then16:55
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GAN900Components are purty16:57
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MohammadAGwhat's the password for the developer account?17:00
fiferboyMohammadAG: I can't remember; I use key authentication17:01
MohammadAGhow'd you deploy the key then?17:02
GAN900wazd, you played with Components yet?17:03
GAN900MohammadAG, the SDK sets it up.17:03
GAN900Randomly generated password.17:03
MohammadAGthe SDK needs a password initially17:03
MohammadAGah screw it, /me unlocks account and changes pass17:05
hiemanshuMohammadAG: open the sdk connectivity tool, and select WLAN, that should give the password17:05
hiemanshuthe IP and password that is needed, QtSDK will install a ssh key for you, so you wont need the password again17:06
MohammadAGhiemanshu, already set it myself17:06
RST38bisMohammad: rootme?17:06
hiemanshuRST38bis: for the user 'developer'17:07
RST38bisah, sorry17:07
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wazdRST38h: btw, since we have 54 more height pixels, maybe we can add some kind of proper menu? :)17:09
RST38biswazd: I hoped to enable Harmattan's status bar17:09
RST38biswazd: but it does not seem to be possible right now, without exposing the "navigation bar" at the same time17:10
RST38bisI even found the code in QtMainWindowPrivate::init() that creates the "navigation bar" but could not get to the upper hierarchical level it creates - doing something wrong, obviously17:10
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GAN900SIM is living in the N900 until we get retail firmware.17:16
MohammadAGheya qgil17:16
qgilhi MohammadAG17:17
wazdhey qgil17:20
wazdRST38h: btw, will you be @ the Tverskaya Store on 21st?17:21
MohammadAGdoes anyone have a weird problem where QML windows are black?17:22
fiferboyMohammadAG: Occasionally.  Are there any errors in your application output?17:23
fiferboyMohammadAG: It usually happens (for me) when something causes the rest of the QML from being iterpreted17:23
MohammadAGI just used anchors.margins17:23
fiferboyMohammadAG: What is the whole line?  Did you try to use UiConstants?17:24
MohammadAGoh, a Flickable's "anchors" property is read only17:24
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RST38biswazd: Prolly not, going to be in Greece17:25
RST38bismoo qgil17:25
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RST38bisMohammad: On the real device, avoid using QMLViewer, it does not show qtcomponents properly17:26
RST38bisMohammad: There is also a way to host QDeclarativeView inside QMainWindow, but it screws up if you have got a QMenuBar there.17:27
GAN900wazd, having fun with QML yet?17:32
MohammadAGis there a way to make a label wordwrap?17:33
GAN900MohammadAG, the widget gallery had an example for that.17:34
MohammadAGoh right, I forgot that17:35
fiferboyMohammadAG: If your label has either a width or left and right anchors you can use the "wordWrap" property17:35
MohammadAGfiferboy, doesn't work for me :/17:38
rcg1MohammadAG: you saw that i uploaded the system-ui packages to my obs repo?17:42
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RST38bisfiferboy: is there an elastic layout option in QML btw? Or is it all absolute coordinates and sizes?17:44
fiferboyMohammadAG: What did you set wordWrap to?17:44
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fiferboyRST38bis: There is a "flow" layout, but I haven't used it17:44
RST38bisaha, will have to check that out17:45
fiferboyMohammadAG: Sorry, the property is "wrapMode"17:45
fiferboyTry setting it to Text.Wrap17:45
MohammadAGwrapMode: Text.Wrap17:46
fiferboyMohammadAG: Are you explicitly setting a width?17:47
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fiferboyIt doesn't know where to wrap if there is no width set17:49
fiferboyYou can either set the width to a fixed number, to a parent component, or attach the left and right anchors to something17:49
RST38bisHm, "flow" actually does not do real layouting17:50
RST38bisjust arranges children side by side, wrapping them17:50
MohammadAGthey are attached17:50
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RST38bisColumn/Row/Grid seem to do the layout without resorting to absolute positions though17:51
fiferboyMohammadAG: I have word wrapping working with attached anchors17:54
fiferboyMohammadAG: Are either of the components it is attached to floating?17:54
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rcg1btw is there any search for to find packages?18:01
kimjurcg1, use search at
rcg1ah, great! thanks kimju18:02
rcg1too close ;)18:02
MohammadAGhow do I detect orientation changes in QML18:03
crevetorMohammadAG: you have to create an OrientationSensor object18:06
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MohammadAGI see no reason for that18:06
crevetorI don'T know of another way to handle it in QML.18:07
MohammadAGonRotationChanged might work18:07
fiferboyMohammadAG: If you want to set, say, a property based on the orientation you can do this:18:08
fiferboywidth: (inPortrait) ? 10 : 10018:08
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MohammadAGjust what I wanted, thanks fiferboy18:10
fiferboyOtherwise, onOrientationChangeAboutToStart, onOrientationChangeStarted, onOrientationChangeFinished18:10
fiferboyonOrientationChangeAboutToStart works well if you want to change anchors layout based on orientation18:11
MohammadAGReferenceError: Can't find variable: UiConstants <-- do I need to import anything for that18:15
fiferboyMohammadAG: You can't use that on the N950 (yet)18:15
fiferboyIt needs qt components 1.118:15
fiferboyOnce we have 1.1 you can use it without importing anything special18:16
fiferboyI compiled 1.1 from git and made it past aegis to get it on my N95018:16
MohammadAGwhat's the default margin then?18:16
fiferboyBut it breaks package amangement18:16
MohammadAG(as an int)18:17
fiferboyMohammadAG: 0 is default, 16 is "large"18:17
fiferboyThe uiConstantsData lines specify thos18:18
fiferboyMohammadAG: Oops, sorry default is 1618:18
tommaMohammadAG, it is UIConstants.js, if you meant file with values for font etc?18:20
fiferboytomma: WIth UIConstants.js you have to provide your own values18:21
fiferboyGoing forward there will be UiConstants with the system defaults18:21
tommaBTW CuteExplorer for harmattan!
MohammadAGanyone used qmafw?18:24
rm_worki looked at it18:25
rm_workif you figure it out let me know18:25
rm_worki need to use it from Python I think18:25
rm_workor else, figure out what the intended way to play audio from python is18:25
rm_workdoes anyone know, BTW?18:26
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razvanpetruhi, is there an assert in QML or something like that?18:41
razvanpetrusomething that at least in debug would trigger a warning?18:42
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MohammadAGrm_work, I'm just not sure how to construct a MafwRenderer18:45
rm_workme either18:46
rm_workesp from python :P18:46
MohammadAGor get a pointer to it18:46
rm_workloading C++ libs in python kinda sucks18:46
fiferboyMohammadAG: You can use "console.log('Message')"18:50
fiferboyMohammadAG: I _think_ these is console.debug too18:50
fiferboyconsole.debug exists18:51
MohammadAGfiferboy, wrong person?18:51
fiferboyMohammadAG: Yep, reading comprehension fail :(18:52
fiferboyrazvanpetru: ^ What I said to MohammadAG18:52
razvanpetruthanks fiferboy, I knew about those :) I was hoping there's something that breaks in the debugger, aborts or something18:53
razvanpetruI'm passing wrong parameters to JS functions and it's failing silently18:53
razvanpetruJS is silly like that...18:53
razvanpetruforget to pass a parameter and it just moves on...18:53
fiferboyrazvanpetru: Ah, yeah.  Javascript debugging is mostly trial and error I think :(19:00
razvanpetruwhy is it that when I add a QML item as a sibling to another and show it on top of it, mouse clicks fall through?19:02
razvanpetruif I have Page with edits and display a blank rectangle on top, I can click through to the edits...19:02
fiferboyrazvanpetru: I think you have to add a MouseArea to the component on top and accept the click19:03
fiferboyIf the component doesn't handle mouse events natively they pass through19:03
razvanpetrutrue, true...19:03
razvanpetrubut if I add a button to the blank rectangle, does it still work?19:03
razvanpetruor does the mouse area now eat everything?19:03
fiferboyThe mouse area would eat everything19:04
fiferboyBut you can disable the mouse area when a button is showing and things will drop through again19:04
razvanpetruideally, clicks would not fall through19:05
fiferboyrazvanpetru: Although if the button is ON TOP of the mouse area it should get events19:05
razvanpetruon top = declared earlier than it?19:05
razvanpetruor with higher z...19:05
fiferboyI guess either, I am not exactly sure about it though19:05
fiferboyI guess trying it would tell you :)19:05
razvanpetrudoing it now, but packaging take a lot on windows :|19:06
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fiferboyrazvanpetru: "Generally, if the item acts on the mouse event then it should be accepted so that items lower in the stacking order do not also respond to the same event."19:08
fiferboyLooks like stacking order it is19:08
razvanpetruit failed when testing with declaration order, now trying z19:08
razvanpetruseems to work :)19:11
MohammadAGanyone good at reading docs?19:12
rm_workDocScrutinizer? :P19:14
rm_workjust a guess lol19:14
MohammadAGerror: cannot allocate an object of abstract type 'MafwRegistry' trying to figure out what this means19:17
tommayou need to implement all pure virtuals in your class19:18
razvanpetruI hope M doesn't stand for mixin...19:18
MohammadAGno, I need to use MafwRegistry::instance()19:22
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MohammadAGmafw revision: N/A20:19
MohammadAGmafw library builtime: Wed May 25 06:27:59 EEST 201120:19
MohammadAGmafw-shared revision: N/A20:19
MohammadAGmafw-shared library builtime: Mon May  9 14:21:19 EEST 201120:19
MohammadAGSegmentation fault (core dumped)20:19
RzRlife can be tough sometimes...20:26
fralsso you are getting a device SpeedEvil? :)20:33
MohammadAGis qmafw-gui open?20:42
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SpeedEvilI guess I should put some more time into UIs beyond sh+console.21:43
* SpeedEvil wonders about QML with sh underlying it.21:43
JaffaMohammadAG: Trying to get OMP working on Harmattan?21:47
JaffaMohammadAG: The built-in player is nice enough, but really needs landscape support when using TV-out!21:47
StskeepsSpeedEvil: you can do python and qml.. :)21:48
fiferboyHi Jaffa21:48
SpeedEvilMuch of the stuff I'm interested in is almost entirely performance irrelevant.21:49
MohammadAGJaffa, no, just a "quick" lyrics app21:50
RST38hAnybody has found out how one can do mkdir /home/user/xxx from postinst???21:50
JaffaOooh, fiferboy21:50
fiferboyRST38h: That could be tricky, becuase I think by default root can't write to /home/user21:51
hiemanshuRST38h: run a script at first run? or something?21:53
RST38hfiferboy: yep21:53
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fiferboyRST38h: Can you su to the user in postinst?21:53
RST38hno, tried that21:54
RST38hactually will try again, diffeerently21:54
hiemanshuscript on first run makes sense too21:54
hiemanshuatleast a workaround for now21:54
djszapithat will not work21:54
hiemanshuand why not?21:56
djszapibecause root does not have the mkdir capability if you run it that way ?21:56
djszapior any other user ?21:56
djszapiAlso, why not aegis-su instead of su ?21:57
hiemanshudjszapi: what are you talking about again?21:57
djszapinever mind21:57
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hiemanshudjszapi: I am confused lol21:57
SpeedEvildjszapi: Are there any manpages for any of the aegis tools?21:58
djszapi--help ?21:58
djszapiSpeedEvil: also, I am still not the member of the SDK team :)21:59
SpeedEvilK - I need to have a poke round RDA.21:59
SpeedEvildjszapi: I know you're not, you stand a chance of knowing if there is documentation out tehre that I've overlooked.21:59
djszapihow should I know ?21:59
djszapiif I do not have anything to do with the SDK ?21:59
RST38hOk, sudo is not there, and su user will start a new shell22:00
SpeedEvilI'm making assumptions base on best guesses, knowing you have worked on aegis. I have no idea what you know or don't know.22:00
djszapiSpeedEvil: we made a decent documentation, much better than meegotouch imho internally22:01
djszapithat is not my deal what is published by technical writers and the SDK team.22:01
MohammadAGhas the painting bug been fixed in future meegotouchhome packages?22:03
djszapiSpeedEvil: Also, I had a closer look at the Android security, but I think their documentation is even more sloppy.22:05
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MohammadAGandroid security is almost non existant imo22:05
MohammadAGin the sense you can install any apk, but you can't run what you want22:06
GAN900Hardest network reconnect of my life.22:06
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fiferboyGAN900: Batt pull?22:07
djszapiMohammadAG: They started resembling aegis recently in few aspects :p22:07
GAN900Connection cycled twice.22:08
GAN900fiferboy, congrats, by the way. :P22:08
RST38hok, done it through the startup script22:08
djszapiyou mean upstart ?22:08
SpeedEvilWhere do I find the AID* number - I registered for some weeks ago.22:12
RST38h#0  0x3bb1fd28 in ?? () from /usr/lib/
RST38h#1  0x3bb1ff90 in gconf_client_get_default () from /usr/lib/
RST38h#2  0x3bb1ff90 in gconf_client_get_default () from /usr/lib/
RST38hwhy would it crash in gvonf???22:13
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: you dont need it really, you just need the name of the account22:14
StskeepsRST38h: inside the device sits a small midget with only one mission: to taunt you22:14
djszapihehe :D22:14
RST38hStskeeps: surely looks like this22:14
RzRdjszapi: hi22:19
djszapihello bello, how are you ? :)22:19
* Stskeeps is still pretty happy he was able to boot his own kernel today22:19
djszapicongrats =)22:20
hiemanshuStskeeps: dont rub it in our faces that we cannot a newer firmware any sooner22:20
Stskeepssorry :P22:20
Stskeepsstill, i wonder if it was just a fluke i wasn't able to22:20
RzRStskeeps congratz, what bootloader are u using to boot it ?22:20
StskeepsRzR: direct - there's a bug in the image bootloader you have, but when that's upgraded, it's quite smooth22:21
Stskeepssome people will need to try to narrow down having aegis happy as a puppy though/faking everything's ok :P22:21
djszapithat is not really aegis anymore, just partially :)22:22
MohammadAGwhat happens to Aegis when you boot your kernel?22:22
djszapithere is no kernel hash check ?22:23
Stskeepsstill functions to some degree, i mean, it's just another hash, but i was able to get system to boot, which is a start :P22:23
RST38hStskeeps: so far, aegis is mostly a nuisance to me but not a showstopper22:23
Stskeepsrest i'll leave you guys to as i don't really care too much about harmattan from a system pov :P22:23
RST38hBut I am only an apps programmer22:24
Stskeepsbut i was able to completely rip it out of kernel, causing of course some credentials to be non-existent22:24
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djszapithat is not a trusted security anymore, but aegis will work further on in userspace and so on.22:24
MohammadAGhiemanshu, apt-get install meegotouch-qt-style in 5-10 minutes22:25
MohammadAGactually apt-get update before that22:25
hiemanshuMohammadAG: aye aye22:25
RST38hBTW, is osso-services dbis stuff still valid in harmattan?22:25
RST38hor should I rip it out?22:25
SpeedEvilStskeeps: Oh - neat!22:25
SpeedEvilStskeeps: What happene to the device - did stuff all work?22:26
hiemanshuMohammadAG: what repo are you adding it to?22:26
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djszapiStskeeps: why not just porting the meego upstream kernel instead of having this security and other things ?22:27
djszapiso you could just use the upstream smack and other meego solutions.22:27
djszapior do you have just a Harmattan kernel modification purpose ?22:30
SpeedEvilMeego kernel won't have support for all of the hardware presumably.22:30
MohammadAGhiemanshu, rzr22:30
djszapiSpeedEvil: that is why I asked the purpose :)22:31
djszapiRzR: the kdelibs error message is not that talkative to me.22:31
hiemanshuMohammadAG: ah, let me know when its done22:31
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RST38hHello, Meegotouch22:40
RST38hYou are the only library that will let me show nice notifications.22:41
hiemanshuMohammadAG: done?22:43
RST38hCannot mix MTF and Qt widgets. What a PITA...22:44
fiferboyRST38h: There is a system notification component in QML extras 1.122:44
StskeepsSpeedEvil: booted to dsme which is a start, but i just wanted to prove i could boot unsigned kernel, it's now a userland problem22:44
StskeepsSpeedEvil: we have celluar, battery, wifi, camera etc in CE, so aegis isn't really blocking that side22:45
MohammadAGI think he's using QWidgets22:45
RST38hfiferboy: Yes, but do I invoke it from the normal Qt code just to show a warning box?22:45
RST38hfiferboy: and what about the delay required to load it and all required libs?22:46
fiferboyRST38h: Ah, I forgot you were using QWidgets22:46
fiferboyYeah, if the delay is noticable that doesn't make sense22:46
RST38hI actually brought up a QtComponents page yesterday, but it is kinda heave for notifications alone22:46
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frals"Faenil (Andrea Barnabei)" <- is this someone who actually done something?23:10
* frals is going through the extended N950 DDP thread23:10
fralsany examples?23:11
fralsnever seen the name before :o23:11
MohammadAGfrals, see #maemo, he's begging for it23:12
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MohammadAG<MohammadAG> Hmm, I find it strange/annoying that users are signing up to recommend someone for the N950 DDP program <MohammadAG> it's like they were asked to do it23:13
MohammadAG<MohammadAG>!/faenil/status/98833817648889857 I wonder if there's more of this23:13
MohammadAGfrals, neither have I, but a bit of googling reveals he's begging on twitter/forums23:13
RST38hah well23:13
fralsquim replied saying its bad to do that in thread, heh23:14
* frals is looking forward to starting vacation tomorrow afternoon23:14
djszapifrals: me too :)23:14
fralswill finally have time to do my own shit \o/23:14
djszapitomorrow afternoon :p23:14
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: still no mt-qt-style :P23:18
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hiemanshudjszapi: there is no aegis-su23:19
hiemanshuand you were asking someone to use it before?23:19
hiemanshu<djszapi> Also, why not aegis-su instead of su ?23:20
djszapiI do have aegis-su. It seems it is not targetted for the public then.23:20
rm_worksorry npm, got distracted23:20
djszapisince I do not have N950, I cannot double check it.23:20
rm_workthink i may have fixed the build bug i had though for ffmpeg23:20
MohammadAGhiemanshu, OBS is stuck23:20
hiemanshuMohammadAG: hah23:21
hiemanshuMohammadAG: does it have any deps?23:21
djszapiMohammadAG: welcome in the club :)23:21
hiemanshuMohammadAG: build it on your own, and upload it somewhere?23:21
djszapimmh, someone told devel-su previously, but I do not have that one. Interesting.23:22
hiemanshuMohammadAG: the question was to run it in postinst23:22
djszapimaybe they modified aegis-su or so23:22
hiemanshudjszapi: we use devel-su23:22
MohammadAGdjszapi, which one? does it have a DJ in it?23:22
djszapiSorry ?23:22
MohammadAG<djszapi> MohammadAG: welcome in the club :)23:24
hiemanshuMohammadAG: lol23:24
MohammadAGnvm, bad joke23:24
MohammadAGhiemanshu, I have it as a deb23:24
djszapiI meant c-obs getting stuck club :)23:24
hiemanshuMohammadAG: and it works right?23:24
MohammadAGAnd you're a DJ, so yay23:24
MohammadAGhiemanshu, in a way23:24
djszapiMohammadAG: had been playing in a metal band :)23:25
MohammadAGWhich instrument?23:25
djszapiwhat is the output of "devel-su -h" ?23:25
hiemanshumetal is too much noise :(23:25
MohammadAGhiemanshu, stfu23:25
MohammadAGactually depends which type of metal you're listening to23:26
GAN900frals, going anywhere?23:26
hiemanshudjszapi: Usage: su [OPTIONS] [-] [USER]23:26
hiemanshuMohammadAG: heh, well I am going to attend the metallica concert in oct :)23:26
fralsnah, not really, 2 weeks in .fi and then probably going to spend the last 1½ week home in .SE23:27
djszapiit is completely different to aegis-su23:27
MohammadAGhiemanshu, FU again, I want to go to their concert :/23:27
MohammadAGwhat's aegis-su?23:27
fralsbut will finally have time to like.. hack on random stuff :)23:27
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I am working on getting backstage passes23:27
MohammadAGand can you dpkg -S aegis-su?23:27
djszapiMohammadAG: nothing, it is just for real metal heartS :)23:28
MohammadAG-S means search, it might be in an installable package23:28
djszapiit seems to be an internal platform dev tool...23:28
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MohammadAGjust do dpkg -S aegis-su :P23:28
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djszapioh yeah, I know what it is. Yep, it is just internal stuff23:30
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hiemanshu_N950MohammadAG: communi is all beautiful now23:31
hiemanshu_N950well much better atleast23:31
djszapinot sure why I do not have devel-su, it is still a myth :D23:31
hiemanshu_N950but i have two top bars23:32
hiemanshu_N950MohammadAG: patch communi to be fullscreen please23:33
djszapibusybox-devel-su that apt-cache search sees23:33
MohammadAGhiemanshu, sure23:34
MohammadAGdjszapi, that's the one23:34
hiemanshu_N950MohammadAG: awesome23:35
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djszapiwell, packrat does not find devel-su..23:35
djszapinot even installed on my device23:35
MohammadAGdjszapi, it's from busybox-devel-su23:36
MohammadAGanyway, I'm going hunting, for aegis-su23:36
djszapiso do you apply for a Nokia position to have access to that ? :)23:37
djszapior you start writing a community aegis-su project :D23:37
MohammadAGI look in places where honest mistakes might have happened :P23:37
hiemanshuor lazyness23:38
MohammadAGless likely23:38
RzRMohammadAG: thx for uploading23:38
djszapianybody coming to the Desktop Summit ?23:38
RzRit's building now23:38
MohammadAGRzR, yw, can you kick OBS? it's still building it23:38
MohammadAGah k23:38
MohammadAGdamn, no honest mistakes23:39
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RzRnext time please split it into  .diff.gz + orig.tar.gz23:39
MohammadAGRzR, I got it from git like that23:40
djszapiplease do not use diff.gz23:40
djszapithat is a very nasty thing23:40
djszapiuse debian 3.0 quilt format, please.23:40
fiferboyHmm, it looks like QMLComponents 1.1 removed the screenshot tool from the example app :(23:41
hiemanshudjszapi: also, do you know shadeslayer?23:42
fiferboyThis is a git build, so maybe it will be back in the final23:43
djszapihe is also a KDE developer23:43
djszapimostly rekonq, telepathy23:43
djszapifrom India23:43
hiemanshuyeah, we are pretty good friends23:44
djszapi<3 rekonq23:44
djszapiwould be all kind of brilliant to see on Harmattan23:44
djszapiHowever QtWebKit needs to switch to webkit2 first...23:44
RzRdjszapi: why?23:45
RzRdjszapi: yes 3.0 quilt it's better23:45
djszapidiff.gz as from Caesar, ancient age :)23:45
djszapiWhat do I lose on Harmattan if I do not use the components, juts QtQuick 1.1 ?23:46
djszapiI have just a very simple application.23:47
djszapiorientation change and other eye candy is not needed.23:47
fiferboydjszapi: Components is the system look and feel to QML23:47
fiferboyYou can do anything in QML without (AFAIK), but you have to do more work to get the application to look "nice"23:48
djszapiyep. I am fine with working QtQucik 1.1 pinch area and others.23:48
fiferboyThen you probably don't need components23:48
djszapiCan I write a QML application with different look'n feel conditionally or is it a better practice to drop and write a new one for another mobile device ?23:49
djszapiDo you use pure QML when you use components ?23:50
djszapiIs there re-usable code ?23:50
fiferboydjszapi: If the platform supports Qt Components you can reuse your interface23:50
fiferboyAlthough you may have to take into account, for example, different resolutions23:51
fiferboyYou can do that conditionally23:51
djszapiIs the Components a paid project ?23:52
fiferboyI'm not sure exactly, but it seems to come from within Nokia23:53
fiferboyIt is all in git, though23:53
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djszapiVenemo o/ :)23:54
djszapififerboy: one year ago, I had to implement basic elements, like button, lineedit, progressindicator23:55
djszapiCan I eliminate anything by now ?23:55
hiemanshudjszapi: a lot :P23:55
fiferboydjszapi: Yeah, almost all basic elements are available in components now23:56
djszapiI am not sure I care about components at this point23:56
Venemohey djszapi :)23:56
Venemowhat's up23:56
fiferboySome advanced ones too23:56
djszapiand my components are better :p23:56
VenemoMohammadAG, pingping23:56
hiemanshuVenemo: hey23:56
Venemohey hiemanshu, how're you? (got your N950 yet?)23:56
hiemanshuVenemo: you writing a IRC client I hear23:56
hiemanshuVenemo: got it yes, got over it no23:56
Venemohiemanshu, hmm?23:56
djszapififerboy: is there any reason to not use components, just plain QML ?23:57
Venemoso djszapi, what was that zooming thing that you was talking about yesterday?23:57
djszapiI am not familiar with components, I object to that :)23:58
hiemanshudjszapi: only reason would be portability23:58
Venemopincharea is crap23:58
fiferboydjszapi: About the only thing I can think of is if it isn't available for all the platforms you are targeting23:58
djszapiVenemo: why so ?23:58
Venemodjszapi, do you remember the problem I was talking about earlier?23:58
djszapififerboy: any known and common platform where it is not available ?23:58
* hiemanshu is off to sleep23:58
djszapiVenemo: yep, but seems implementation issue23:58
djszapisince it works for some pepple23:58
Venemodjszapi, well it works for one purpose, but doesn't work if you want to use it the way I want to.23:59
Venemoit would have taken them a if (event->touchPoints().count() < 2) event->reject()23:59
djszapiit does not mean it is crap, does it ? :)23:59
djszapiit is just for different purpose then.23:59

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