IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2011-08-01

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KypeliHas someone else noticed some rough edges in Harmattan Qt Components? :)00:05
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rcgrough edges?00:23
mikhasthe packaging is weird00:24
mikhasYou cannot use Qt Quick Components on your desktop or in Qt designer it seems.00:24
mikhasSo you need to test on the device all the time.00:25
mikhasmentions some of the rough edges00:26
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Kypelimikhas: Well, my observations were not mentioned.00:27
Kypelircg: I've noticed, just as a few examples, that Label does not support elide and TextInput does not resize it's width in a Sheet component (but it does in a Page) and InfoBanner is not available for 3rd party developers.00:28
KypeliAfter that, I got tired of fighting.00:28
rcghmm ic00:29
rcgwell... if these are "edges" then i just stumbled across some rusty bed of nails while messing with the "stable" qt version for fremantle.. but thats just a side note00:31
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mikhason the other hand, LMT has eliding, text edits adjust and even layouts that can auto-switch for you between landscape and portrait mode00:36
mikhasjust write a component that wraps MLabel?00:36
KypeliMTF is deprecated :P ;)00:36
mikhas(I know, am being naive at this time of day)00:36
KypeliAnd, let me just say for the record, that MList looks awesome compared to ListView in Qt Components00:37
mikhasdeprecated by the same guys who now have to do windows programming00:37
KypeliI hope they enjoy it ... or not.00:38
mikhasWell, QML UI's are easier to do, I'll admit that. But that doesn't mean LMT is useless.00:38
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kimjuhmm.. qmake generates Makefile.Release, that has following in build target: "-$(DEL_FILE) ../$(TARGET)" "-$(MOVE) $(TARGET) ../" but distclean target only cleans: "-$(DEL_FILE) $(TARGET)"00:39
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mikhas(And even though I hate so many aspects of LMT, I hate even more to sell developers a lie and throw stuff away just like that.)00:39
KypeliI would have hoped that at this point the Qt Components would have wrapped all the UI classes MTF had/native apps use00:39
KypeliThis unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case00:39
kimjuwhere does it get template for that makefile / how do I override it so that distclean removes the ../$(TARGET) too?00:39
mikhaswell, Qt Components shifted direction after feb 1100:39
mikhasbefore, the idea really was to wrap LMT widgets00:40
KypeliWhatever now is shoveled down developer's throats is very confusing and half-baked.00:40
mikhasnow it's about staying somewhat relevant, somewhere, and that doesn't fly with a LMT dependency00:40
KypeliI see00:41
mikhasIt's not optimal.00:41
kimjubug created more than two years ago, still open.00:44
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mikhas  kimju, provide a patch00:49
mikhasdoesnt look too difficult00:49
kimjuI'm trying to hunt down where those templates are stored..00:50
mikhastemplates, as in prf files?00:50
mikhasand makespec's?00:50
mikhasthere is /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features and /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs00:51
kimjunote: I'm using qmake for first time, not familiar with it.00:51
mikhasprf files go to features, and can be compared to pkg-config, somewhat00:51
mikhasto pgk-config's pc files, I mean00:51
seifany ideas when the next image for meego harmattan is coming out01:30
mikhasno, sadly not01:31
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kimjuhmmh. the problematic default seems to be within the qmake binary, not in .prf files. adding this to .pro works around the problem: QMAKE_DISTCLEAN += ${DESTDIR}/${TARGET}01:54
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kimjujust looking at the source, my guess is that should have << destdir << like lines 900, 902 & 903. Not going to recompile qt and test though..02:12
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SpeedEvilHe's graduated to pissing gasoline?03:19
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GeneralAntillesTronic, thanks!04:10
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: Tronic: I'd say "fsck the UI, what's with the core OS and toolkits?"04:25
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yes, it just varies in % purity04:27
SpeedEvilI have wondered about swipe on w704:27
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DocScrutinizerHonestly Trollop stating >>In our strategic assessment, we determined that the MeeGo effort could not quickly enough deliver us a range of solutions across price points, radio technologies, etc. for us to effectively compete, so we had to make an alternative decision.<< sounds like handwaving, false assumtion about that "alternative decision" (read WP) would deliver faster and with less risk, and it sounds like a foul excuse for getting04:32
DocScrutinizerbent over by M$. Plus it is a confession of "we don't know how to build proper OS inhouse"04:32
DocScrutinizereach single point rather easy to put on testbench and reject04:34
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DocScrutinizerElop seems to have forgotten Nokia is still selling *hardware*04:37
TronicDocScrutinizer: I agree. The UI isn't that spectacular (although good). QML is awesome and Maemo has proven itself as an excellent platform.04:38
TronicThat's AFAIK not the first time that Elop is giving that "we wouldn't be able to finish MeeGo quickly enough" excuse.04:39
TronicStrangely enough, they are releasing N9 somewhere around September and WP7 much later.04:39
DocScrutinizerwell, so what's N9 then?04:40
DocScrutinizerso let's go on...: "solutions across price points" what's wrong with harmattan on cheaper devices? how much would it cost Nokia to re-use it? ZERO basically. "radio technologies, etc" BS, the radio technology, while maybe difficult to attach, is largely unrelated to the OS as such, and for sure not easier or faster to implement under WP than under harmattan04:43
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DocScrutinizerof course unless the think of integrated baseband+APE one_CPU devices, where the integrity of the GSM stack is protected by locking up the OS. Obviously they can't do this for maemo while keeping it "open" by any metrics04:46
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DocScrutinizerso no maemo on cheap featurephones04:46
DocScrutinizerthough with aegis... X-P04:46
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Well - m5 class hardware has dropped a fair bit.04:48
DocScrutinizerstill a nogo for 20$ phones04:49
DocScrutinizerthe rationale Elop exposes is clearly that of a SW-house CEO, while Nokia should probably recall they are mainly a HW manufacturer.04:51
TronicDocScrutinizer: Btw, does WP7 even support all the radio technologies that N9 does?04:52
TronicN9 seems to have everything except for 11a WiFi and maybe some far east local systems.04:53
DocScrutinizerwhat's WP7?  ;-D04:53
TronicS40 is going to stay there for the low end devices, right?04:54
DocScrutinizerthat's what they told04:55
TronicThere is no way you can put a regular operating system (such as anything Linux-based) on such hardware.04:55
TronicDunno how much it would cost to equip those devices with a little more decent hardware, considering that RAM and Flash are dirt cheap nowadays. That is bound to happen at some point but for all I know it could take another decade.04:57
SpeedEvilTronic: no FMTX04:57
TronicSpeedEvil: On what?04:57
SpeedEvilTronic: n904:58
TronicYeah :/04:58
SpeedEvilTronic: There is a substantial premium for devices capable of doing linux well.04:58
TronicEven though that wasn't really all too useful with the N900 either.04:58
DocScrutinizernot that N900 FMTX ever worked nicely04:58
TronicAnd neither was the FM receiver.04:58
SpeedEvilThe high-end SoC all generally require a secondary chip, for example.04:59
SpeedEvilThe lower end ones are integrated.04:59
SpeedEvilWhich lowers cost.04:59
DocScrutinizerBB5 modem alone is 2 or 3 chips04:59
SpeedEvilAnd the lowest end ones run everything on the 'modem' chip04:59
DocScrutinizerAPE another 3..5 big ones05:00
DocScrutinizerthat's for sure a bit of a difference05:01
DocScrutinizer2 chips on cheap featurephones (possibly one) vs 5..8 more expensive chips on smartphone with separate APE05:02
DocScrutinizerthough I can't see the cheap architecture run WP7 either05:03
DocScrutinizerbut trollop might think it could05:04
TronicDo you think WP7 license could be dirt cheap for the low end phones?05:09
SpeedEvilTronic: It's not going to run at all.05:13
SpeedEvilWP7 is very, very constrained on the hardware it will run on05:13
SpeedEvilIt's one or two chips only at the moment05:13
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hiemanshuoh goody, my N950 wont connect to a internet connection :/09:42
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cpscottihey, has anyone fully drained their n950`s battery?11:43
cpscottiapparently mine's battery got drained this morning in like... 45 minutes11:43
cpscotti(ok, I was testing weird stuff but still...)11:44
alteregoI think lcuk did, and he couldn't boot it afterwards :)11:44
alteregoIs that why you're asking?11:44
alteregoLast I heard he was dismantling it to get at the battery ..11:44
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RST38hthe runaway signon process will do it to you11:45
MohammadAGI thought the N950 shouldn't suffer from that11:48
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RST38hFrmo the signon process? No, everyone should suffer from the signon process!11:50
MohammadAGfrom battery drainage11:50
MohammadAGwould be funny if my device was defective11:51
hiemanshucpscotti: yeah I have drained it multiple times, plugged in the wall charger, it starts charging but wont power on a little time11:52
hiemanshufor a*11:53
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cpscottialterego,  hiemanshu, crazy shit11:54
cpscottifor some time I did believe I had bricked the stuff11:54
hiemanshucpscotti: not really, this is how most phones have been11:54
cpscottibut now it's up11:54
hiemanshuwhen its completely drained, wont boot up for a bit until it has a little charge left11:55
cpscottihiemanshu, ye ye.. but I didn`t even consider the battery at the beginning because it drained soooo fast11:55
alteregoI've used it until it's turned off, but not had a problem powering it on. Though I let it charge whilst off anyway, so meh :)11:55
Arkenoiquite strange, n900 connected to wpa-peap network with minor glitch (you need to define access point manually, not select from available networks), n950 cannot do it at all and no meaningful diagnostics is provided11:55
hiemanshualterego: yes, the LED starts blinking which means its charging but you still cannot power it on yet11:55
alteregohiemanshu: yeah, no doubt. Just saying I never tried so I haven't witnessed it ;)11:56
hiemanshuand then when you can actually switch it on, the LED is a constant always on or something (I can recall it)11:56
cpscottihiemanshu, yes.. now it's all good :D11:56
hiemanshucpscotti: awesome11:56
* hiemanshu goes for lunch11:57
cpscottihey, woops.. accidentaly removed the MyDocs symlink on /home/developer ; can anyone confirm if it's just:12:00
cpscottilrwxrwxrwx    1 user     develope      18 Aug  1 09:59 MyDocs -> /home/user/MyDocs/12:00
cpscottior better:12:01
cpscottilrwxrwxrwx    1 user     develope      18 Aug  1 09:59 /home/developer/MyDocs -> /home/user/MyDocs/12:01
cpscotti(how I did it? I was trying to remove a folder called "?j^?/" ... lol)12:02
divan_cpscotti, yep, confirm12:06
cpscottidivan_, thanks!12:06
divan_cpscotti, $ ls -l /home/developer/12:06
divan_total 412:06
divan_lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            17 Jul 30 16:26 MyDocs -> /home/user/MyDocs12:06
divan_drwxr-xr-x    2 user     develope      4096 Aug  1 11:22 bin12:06
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cpscottidivan_, hmm.. actually it`s a bit different..12:17
divan_cpscotti, permissions?12:18
cpscottiowner & group12:18
cpscottiyours is root:root12:18
cpscottimy ad-hoc one's not.. changing that :D12:18
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kimjuis the obs building working for others? I saw in the live build log that the package finished building, but now "download raw logfile" returns an empty page and build status lists it still as building, the package doesn't appear in the repo either.12:32
Summelikimju: it doesn't work for me12:33
SummeliI get "permission denied" from a temp-folder that the obs makes from my package12:33
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kimjuehh, now it gives me both live and rawlogs from totally unrelated package.. :o12:36
piggzback from a festival weekend...what have i missed in n950 land?12:37
kimjuI wonder what would happen if I press abort build, trigger rebuild..12:38
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RST38hBTW, folks, whoever wants to test Speccy on N950, let me know12:45
RST38hGot a .deb for you12:45
RST38hMoo, lardman, may the Celestial Cow bless you with Her milk12:45
lardmanRST38h: thanks RST38h and the same to you :)12:45
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rm_worklcuk: morning12:49
rm_workbeen up for the last 5 hours dealing with other brits, and there's a guy on this conference call that reminds me of you :P lol12:51
lardmanalways talking about bacon?12:52
lardmanoh no, that's me12:52
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vandenoeveris (web runtime, WRT) also supported on N950/N9 ?13:10
SpeedEvil'on symbian devices'13:12
vandenoeverwell, why would it not work on harmattan? it has the same/similar browser13:12
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SpeedEvilI'm also interested if the web proxycould be used13:14
SpeedEvil'Web applications' - in some sense are suported.13:16
SpeedEvilIn that you can put a webpage on the app-screen.13:16
SpeedEvilIf you have it loading from a file - that's a web app.13:16
rm_workhrm, i've started getting blak screens on N950 -- when making a call it opens a new window which is just black, and closing it actually doesn't appear to hang up the call -- also, when i hold-tap on the task switcher and close one task, it turns the whole screen black until i leave and re-enter the task switcher screen13:23
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lcuklol rm_work13:27
rm_workonboarding a refinery in Pembroke13:28
rm_workand offices in Swindon13:28
rm_workValero now has a foothold in the UK13:28
rm_workwatch out, other refiners!13:28
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MohammadAGmodule "QtQuick" version 1.1 is not installed <-- how do I fix this on Ubuntu?13:32
lcukinstall qt quick 1.113:34
fralsqt 4.7.3+ iirc13:34
MohammadAGnaw crap, I have 4.7.213:34
MohammadAGis there a PPA with 4.7.4? I cba to wait one hour for Qt to build13:35
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rm_workbackports repo?13:35
rm_workyou on natty?13:35
rm_worknatty-backports ?13:36
rm_workor similar13:36
MohammadAGI wonder if KDE will like 4.7.413:36
rm_worki doubt it'll explode unless it's completely brokenly non-backwards-compatible...13:36
rm_workthey'd have to have done some serious retarded shit to break it on a minor version change :P13:37
fralsi would install it to opt or something... just in case :p13:37
rm_workif it breaks KDE just remove it and reinstall from official repo13:37
rm_workbut it seriously shouldn't be an issue on a minor version bump13:38
rm_work4.7.2 -> 4.7.413:38
MohammadAGmeh, no binaries13:38
rm_workunless their changelog is like "physically removed half of our API, broke backwards compatibility for all previous versions"13:38
rm_workwhich would be braindead13:38
cpscottirm_work, I'm having the same issue when closing and app on the task switcher! annoying bc I have to switch to another screen and back13:39
rm_workcpscotti: yep13:39
rm_workvery odd13:39
rm_workonly started today13:39
cpscottirm_work, mine started last friday13:39
cpscottiand seemed to stop but restarted yesterday13:39
rm_worki may try a reboot13:39
rm_workit's been a day or two13:39
cpscottiwell, now that I see I'm not the only one, let's pay more attention to it13:40
rm_workyeah i knew i wasn't the only one13:43
rm_worksaw someone else mentioning the phone part a few days back13:43
rm_workdoes the phone thing happen to you too?13:43
rm_workhave you tried calling anyone recently?13:43
* MohammadAG should tie some buttons to the hangup dbus call13:46
rm_workah man, so many british accents13:48
TermanaMohammadAG, received your N950 yet?13:48
rm_workthey sound so hilarious/awesome :P13:48
MohammadAGTermana, no, Israeli customs seem to like it13:49
MohammadAGit's been there since Sunday morning13:49
MohammadAGSaturday evening actually13:49
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TermanaMohammadAG, mine was stuck in Customs on Sunday as well. They released it today, and now I just have "delivery arranged no details expected"13:50
MohammadAGI guess I'll get it by Wednesday, I'd have hoped for today but meh13:50
MohammadAGannoying how it can get from Finland to Germany to Italy in less than a day, but it takes 4 days to get from tel aviv to jerusalem13:51
rm_workit did take about a week to get to the US...13:52
rm_workbut yes, silly13:52
MohammadAGtel aviv to jerusalem is less than 100km rm_work13:52
rm_worklol yeah13:53
MohammadAGI could drive there in 40 minutes13:53
rm_workwell, point being it should have only been one day to the US....13:53
Termana"Delivery arranged no details expected" is pain in the arse, I think it means they've given it to a third party courier. Now I have nfi where it is or when it will get here :\13:53
rm_workso it takes a long time no matter where13:53
MohammadAGIsraeli security's fun though13:53
MohammadAGand this is why I hate online shopping13:54
MohammadAGnow imagine if my device was defective13:54
MohammadAGI'll get the second one when the WP7 phone's out13:54
rm_workyeah i'm way too spoiled by amazon one-click two-day13:55
rm_workor single day for $3.9913:55
rm_worki expect to order things and have them tomorrow13:55
MohammadAGused that a couple of times13:55
rm_worki buy groceries on amazon <_<13:56
MohammadAG(to the US of course)13:56
rm_worki thought the 2-day shipping with amazon prime was US only13:56
MohammadAGIn fact, I abused the trials for quite a while13:56
rm_worki have free prime from student deal :P13:56
rm_workhave three more years left13:56
MohammadAGHaving 4 emails is useful13:56
rm_workwell i get one year per email with a .edu extension13:57
MohammadAGI just sign up for a trial on another account when I want to use it :P13:57
rm_workand my one .edu email will resolve to four different addresses13:58
rm_workthe best part is i can just add each email to my same account and it extends it, lol13:58
rm_workwell there are different forms13:58
rm_worklast.first@college, lastf@college,, lastf@cs.college13:59
rm_workalso i think i may have two more now13:59
RST38hah, the wonders of
Arkenoirm_work, seen your situation too, reboot did help14:00
rm_worki think by 6 years from now i will be able to afford the $80/y for actual Prime14:00
rm_workArkenoi: yeah some said it helped, some said it didn't14:00
RST38hBTW, I am sure everyone will be pleased ot know that the PulseAUdio lockup problem is back =)14:00
rm_workcan't test now tho, no reception14:00
* RST38h mentally kicks Lennart in the balls14:01
rm_worki am trying to figure out what the recommended way to play audio from python is14:01
Arkenoirm_work, especially likely to happen with sip calls14:01
cpscottirm_work, (sorry for taking so long to answ hehe) the phone thing didn`t happen in the same way for me. One time I got a black screen while I was making a call but then I swiped back and the phone was "there".. (only happened once so can`t be sure what really happened)14:07
rm_workwell, when i dialed a number and hit the call button, it opened a NEW window which was black -- was able to swipe back to the dialer, but the black window stayed black (which i assume was the actual call window)14:08
rm_workthe strange part was it not hanging up when i closed it via task switcher O_o14:08
MohammadAGdoes Harmattan use ofono?14:10
rm_workman, i just want to go home and sleep >_>14:12
rm_workbeen at work since 11pm sunday night, it's 6am monday now >_>14:12
rm_workstupid US/UK time difference14:13
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divan_is there any standard way in QML to crop images with rounded corners, much like harmattan icons?14:19
mikhasyou mean squircles?14:21
cpscottirm_work, yep, weird.. I`ll keep an eye for it too14:22
mikhascpscotti, in such situations it is useful to have mcompositor-tools ready14:22
divan_mikhas, yes, exactly.14:22
mikhascan tell you everything about the window stack, even control it14:23
mikhasusually it's an app's top window being on top when it shouldn't =p14:23
cpscottimikhas, hmm ok apt-ge tit?14:23
mikhasah wrong, it is called -utils: mcompositor-utils14:24
mikhasa collection of little helpers14:24
divan_default squircle seems to be too square comparing with harmattan style.14:31
divan_at least that one with (x-a)^4+(y-b)^4=r^4 equation14:32
cpscottimikhas,  can`t find it on the main repo neither harmattan-dev one, which one is it in?14:39
mikhasodd, it's not packaged?14:39
mikhasit available right there on gitorious14:39
cpscotti/etc/apt/sources.list.d # apt-cache search mcomp14:39
cpscottimcompositor - MeeGo Touch UI Compositing Window Manager14:39
cpscottimcompositor-dbg - MeeGo Touch UI Compositing Window Manager debug symbols14:39
cpscottimcompositor-swipe - mcompositor swipe plugin14:39
cpscottiok, I'll build it from gitorious14:40
mikhasthis actually sucks14:41
mikhaswhy would you not ship utils …14:41
mikhasesp. considering that the N950 is for devs14:41
cpscottimikhas, yeh.. sucks.. everybody's packaging the normals stuff all over again14:43
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hiemanshuwhich is why need cobs and a repo14:47
cpscottihiemanshu, yep.. but.....14:49
cpscottithat Pack Rat looks good14:49
MohammadAGwhich is why I need to get that repo working14:51
MohammadAGactually I'm free till 7PM, /me takes a look at OBS again14:51
MohammadAGyay, N950 released out of customs14:57
Stskeepsthat was quick14:57
Stskeepssure it's still in the box?14:57
hiemanshuMohammadAG: how long did it take?14:57
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, since Saturday evening15:02
MohammadAGStskeeps, no :P15:02
hiemanshumine was slower, 2-ish days :/15:02
RST38hAll covered in drool, I am sure15:03
MohammadAGSaturday isn't a working day though15:03
MohammadAGwonder if it'll be delivered today15:09
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kimjuafter waiting couple of hours for the package to appear in repo I triggered rebuild on obs, it started building another random package (not even a harmattan package this time) instead of mine.15:42
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dm8tbrkimju: might want to poke lbt then?15:49
lbtkimju: I've heard this problem before15:49
lbtlink ?15:49
kimju - shows my build being stuck for 4 hours now.15:49
mgedminI desperately need an IRC client for the N95015:57
mgedminwell, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but having one would be nice15:58
hiemanshumgedmin: well you could compile quassel, and use with a ugly-ish GUI16:00
Arkenoimgedmin, ssh to somewhere and run irssi :-)16:00
MohammadAGVenemo's making a client16:00
MohammadAGisn't gtk present on the N950?16:00
mikhasdont let Arjan hear that16:01
hiemanshuMohammadAG: no gtk16:01
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DocScrutinizer>>Processed at TEL AVIV - ISRAEL<<16:04
MohammadAGyeah, already called them, they're sending it tomorrow16:04
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: make some friends, get gtk to N950 :-P16:06
RST38hWhy do you need gtk, anyway?16:06
hiemanshugtk on the N950? sorry I dont want my N950 ugly again16:06
RST38hAnyone wants a Speccy for N950, BTW?16:06
DocScrutinizerbecause you won't patch xchat for QTM16:07
DocScrutinizererrr QML16:07
hiemanshuuse Quassel :P16:07
RST38hah that16:07
DocScrutinizerwho wrote quassel (original author)?16:08
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DocScrutinizername sounds rather German16:09
djszapiDocScrutinizer: /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist and what I said is your best bet for knowing what is protected by aegis or not.16:09
hiemanshuManuel Nickschas16:10
hiemanshuor something16:10
hiemanshuerrr, DocScrutinizer ^16:10
MohammadAGmgedmin, feel like testing something?16:19
lbtkimju: it's annoying16:19
mgedminMohammadAG, what?16:19
MohammadAGmgedmin, communi, an IRC client16:19
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: I am open to testing to :)16:21
kimjulbt, so no clear reason to be seen why that happens?16:22
MohammadAGI have no N950 yet, so idk if it works16:22
MohammadAGcommuni is the N900 package, recompiled16:22
* hiemanshu tries16:22
MohammadAGthere may or may not be an icon :p16:22
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djszapiMohammadAG: is it different to that what Venemo did ?16:23
MohammadAGerr, communi is empty16:23
hiemanshuMohammadAG: why is communi only 2.7K?16:23
MohammadAGdjszapi, I thought Venemo was writing an IRC client himself16:23
MohammadAGhiemanshu, 2 sentences up, just noticed that, sec16:23
hiemanshuah yeah16:23
djszapiMohammadAG: nah, he was using libircclient as well16:24
djszapihe just made an interface.16:24
MohammadAGdjszapi, communi isn't written by me16:24
lbtkimju: it is almost certainly due to the scheduler not updating the build status of your project16:26
lbtand it is pointing to the worker it built on16:26
lbtwhich is now building something else16:26
kimjusomething wrong in my configuration? or just a obs bug?16:27
hiemanshudjszapi: that is the communi home16:28
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: ah cool, /me creates shorter urls16:28
RST38hMohammad: what is it?16:28
hiemanshu and
djszapihiemanshu: yep, I found that, but thanks :)16:29
RST38hah, an IRC client, of all things!16:29
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: first time I prefer short URLs - wonder why ;-P16:30
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: pain to type on the phone?16:31
MohammadAGhiemanshu, did it work?16:31
hiemanshuMohammadAG: my phone wont connect to the internet, so restarting it, all it says it 'cannot connect to the internet'16:31
djszapiMohammadAG: hildon-application-manager is not available in package yet16:32
DocScrutinizer"can't install \n unable to trace installation dependencies "16:33
MohammadAGthe package depends on ham in Maemo 516:33
MohammadAGwhy the fuck...16:33
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I get invalid installation package :/16:34
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: try the second link first16:34
MohammadAGtry now, same URL16:34
* hiemanshu tries16:35
DocScrutinizer"can't install \n unable to trace installation dependencies "16:35
DocScrutinizer"can't install \n unable to trace installation package dependencies "16:36
MohammadAGwhich ones?16:36
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: you need to install the second link first16:36 ;-P16:36
MohammadAGinstall libircclient-qt first16:37
hiemanshuthe lib installed just fine16:37
MohammadAGand communi?16:37
hiemanshucommuni is downloading at 500B/s :/16:37
DocScrutinizer"invalid installation package"16:38
djszapiMohammadAG: It did not add any icon by me16:38
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: do it from commandline16:38
hiemanshuwget and dpkg16:38
RST38hHow about nuking the rules file, replacing it with the default semi-empty one?16:38
RST38hAnd then rebuilding?16:38
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lardmanbloody Ubuntu multi-arch stuff16:39
djszapiMohammadAG: well, it is not even zoomable16:39
MohammadAGRST38h, it's fine16:39
DocScrutinizermoo lardman16:39
lardmanany apt-get/dpkg gurus about?16:39
lardmanhey Doc16:39
RST38hMohammad: I think some of these steps involve generating aegis manifests etc16:39
hiemanshulardman: just ask :P16:39
RST38hMohammad: so, it is *possible* that if you have got a cusotm rules file these get skipped16:39
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I'm not touching cmdline any more on N95016:39
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: hah, why not?16:39
DocScrutinizerit's too dangerous, thanks aegis16:40
lardman any ideas?16:40
DocScrutinizercan't stand the thrill16:40
hiemanshuMohammadAG: Aegis rejecting communi_* Debian archive truncated -- too short blah blah blah16:41
hiemanshuMohammadAG: ugh nvm, my mistake16:42
* MohammadAG installs in SDK16:43
djszapihiemanshu: that is impossible, aegis must be the reason ;)16:43
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: and djszapi confirmed this just a few lines up: [2011-08-01 15:09:52] <djszapi> DocScrutinizer: /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist and what I said is your best bet for knowing what is protected by aegis or not.16:43
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: thanks16:43
ArkenoiMohammadAG, no application icon yet?16:43
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hiemanshuArkenoi: run it from search16:44
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: [2011-07-31 21:28:21] <DocScrutinizer> I'm going to eventually document on wiki: "aegis is protecting arbitrary files from editing/deleting/renaming/chmod. You have no means to know if a file is protected that way. Touching such a file will possibly result in bricking and need for a reflash of complete system. That's the situation and you either deal with it or forget about harmattan, as nobody is going to do anything about16:45
DocScrutinizerit to fix this permanent threat" Maybe NOT - CBA16:45
MohammadAGadd Categories=X-MeeGo;16:45
MohammadAG to communi.desktop16:45
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djszapiMohammadAG: Harmattan desktop file does not like fremantle desktop entries, if there is any16:45
MohammadAGdjszapi, noticed that16:46
hiemanshu_N950mohammadag, it works, but its butt ugly, and text is too small16:46
hiemanshu_N950but it works16:46
MohammadAGbetter than nothing, for nwo16:46
RST38hWell, whaddyawanted...16:46
djszapiX-Osso-Type -> like this one16:46
RST38hBTW, Qt docs say that the -font command line argument should work16:46
hiemanshu_N950yeah, i should compile quassel2go once i get home16:46
RST38hit did not work for me, but maybe you will get luckier16:47
kimjuterminal + custon keymap + ssh to server running irssi.. "works for me" :)16:47
djszapiwhy not just irssi ?16:47
RST38hbecause irssi is ugly piece of eleet shit?16:47
hiemanshuMohammadAG: seems to even update in the background \o/16:47
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MohammadAG_SDKbutt ugly indeed16:48
djszapiyeah, pretty much..16:48
djszapikimju: why do you need server in that workflow ?16:48
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_N950: look, aegis was pretty capable to stop you from editing such protected files, or generally from doing any nasty. Aegis *could* do a *reboot* for a last resort security measure. BUT NOT BRICK!!!16:48
kimjuyou don't want to run irc client directly on device with spotty connection. at least use a bouncer somewhere16:48
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I remember stskeep saying that you can run a custom kernel and it should disable the security stuff16:49
djszapikimju: that is what I actually want :)16:49
MohammadAGtry -style cleanlooks16:49
hiemanshuMohammadAG: meh, I launched it from the search app :P16:49
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_N950: bricking is just a deliberate punishment for developers who were unlucky to run into one of the hidden APM of aegis16:50
djszapiMohammadAG: However this is a bit useless on N9 :p16:50
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: thats true16:50
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu_N950: it's like holiday in a pakistan minefield16:51
hiemanshudjszapi: yeah, thats true16:51
kimjudjszapi, it's annoying when people come and go on channels constantly when their 3G connection is acting up.. also, it's annoying to be the one constantly dropping out.16:51
DocScrutinizerwithout any metal detector16:51
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: not really, in pakistan you could atleast detect mines16:51
djszapikimju: get a good connection ? I use my mobile internet on a daily basis16:51
kimjudjszapi, so I prefer to run irssi on my server with good and stable connection and ssh there. then no-one else needs to see if my connection is dropping.16:52
kimjudjszapi, there are always places with marginal connectivity. parking garages, elevators, backwoods.. :)16:52
djszapikimju: I do not know, I did not have such problems with mobile internet yet.16:52
hiemanshuMohammadAG: if you have time now care to compile for me? I cannot go near my dev system for the next day or so16:53
djszapikimju: :)16:53
MohammadAGdoes it have to be a deb?16:53
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: useless on N9? :-D AHAA you are eager to get a irc client for N9 :-D16:53
djszapiI cannot hide the VK after showing up...16:53
hiemanshuMohammadAG: yeah, or you cannot run it :/16:53
djszapiDocScrutinizer: N9 has newer images, do not forget...16:53
djszapiI prefer that over an IRC client actually ;)16:53
DocScrutinizeryeah, can see the reason16:53
djszapimikhas: do you have an idea ?16:54
djszapiThe VK does not go away after I typed something into the Nick name field, so I cannot click on the Next button.16:54
hiemanshuunless the VK goes swype, I am not getting a N916:54
infobothiemanshu meant: unless the VK does swype, I am not getting a N916:54
djszapihiemanshu: it is not swype based...16:55
djszapiit goes away if you click out of an input field for instance.16:55
djszapiand I think that design is ok.16:55
hiemanshudjszapi: well yeah, but there should be an option for swype16:55
djszapiactually, it would annoy me if it starts moving if I accidentally touch it.16:56
mikhasjust watch carefully16:56
mikhasI wont comment =p16:56
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djszapior did you mean the move on the VK and not the whole keyboard itself ?16:57
djszapifor instance, button change by swiping ? That works.16:57
hiemanshudjszapi: I meant VK16:57
djszapimikhas: do you have an idea ?16:57
mikhasyes, check the video16:57
hiemanshudjszapi: I mean swype, and not swipe :P16:57
mikhasanswers everything, I think16:57
mikhasor you could just click that link16:57
mikhascome on, it is not hard16:57
hiemanshumikhas: well I did watch it, well it could use some improvements, but much faster than the normal typing :P16:59
djszapimikhas: I was asking you about that how I can hide the VK like in other applications. For instance, if I click out of it.16:59
djszapimikhas: I was not really interested in swype thing :)16:59
DocScrutinizermeh, been there seen that ("intelligent" vkbd) - found them all completely useless for true work, maybe nice for writing SMS16:59
mikhasdjszapi, the interaction is partially controlled by the framework, not the plugin17:00
mikhasso for that case, yes, it behaves the same17:00
djszapimikhas: then it is somehow buggy since I cannot hide after it appears.17:01
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* DocScrutinizer wonder how to enter via swype :-P17:02
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: not possible on N950, I tried :P17:02
mikhasDocScrutinizer, by searching YT for "Nokia N9 Swype"17:02
djszapimikhas: maybe you can try it out yourself for verification.17:02
DocScrutinizeruselss shiny eyecandy17:03
mikhasdjszapi, which app?17:03
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: not really useless, it would make an awesome coaster17:04
djszapiare you in Helsinki ? I can show you personally as well :p17:04
mikhasam not17:04
mikhasbut team is 3min away from you17:04
djszapiI guess it is because it does not use the components, just a pure fremantle recompilation17:04
mikhasgo to B52517:05
mikhasplain Qt? yeah, might not work17:05
MohammadAG* DocScrutinizer wonder how to enter via swype :-P17:05
MohammadAGswype works as a normal keyboard too17:05
MohammadAGeither swype or tap17:05
mikhasMohammadAG, the point being that you would never want to enter such link manually.17:05
DocScrutinizerthat's my major concern with the whole UX concept: way too much optimized for massive "wow & aaah" on first usage. Eyecandy, not useful or even hindering on everyday usage17:05
djszapimikhas: so I am still looking for a nice, zoomable irc client :)17:05
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mikhaswhether it is on a handset or your desktop17:06
hiemanshudjszapi: wait for a few years17:06
MohammadAGmikhas, I know someone who entered an iTunes app store link on his iPad17:06
mikhasDocScrutinizer, that's why we included a terminal for you.17:06
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MohammadAGtook him 5 minutes, not sure why he didn't shorten it17:06
djszapihiemanshu: why ? What is wrong about Venemo did ?17:06
djszapiI think it was cool.17:06
mikhasso that you can be as productive as you want17:06
mikhasand leave the UX to those who enjoy it17:06
DocScrutinizermikhas: thanks for that :-D just the main purpoae of terminal is to trigger aegis selfdestruction17:07
mikhasMohammadAG, but those are Apple users, does not compare!17:07
hiemanshudjszapi: you didn't get the phun :P17:07
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djszapihiemanshu: hard without smiley :p17:07
kimjuwith touchscreen devices, you are not supposed to type anything. url etc should be *bought* as bookmarks from the app store ;)17:07
hiemanshudjszapi: heh yeah17:08
DocScrutinizermikhas: terminal is the text adventure verson of mineswiper17:08
hiemanshuwhich is why you need fennec and bookmark syncing17:08
djszapirekonq! :)17:08
hiemanshugah, I need to package opencv17:09
hiemanshuwhich means, learn to package without the SDK as well17:09
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djszapithat is not an easy package to get it working on Harmattan17:10
DocScrutinizerkimju: hehehe17:10
DocScrutinizerkimju: good one17:10
mikhasthe SDK also packages incorrectly17:11
hiemanshudjszapi: I have it compiled, and well ready to deploy17:11
mikhascompletely unusable for libraries17:11
mikhaseven though you say "library template" in your qmake project files17:11
djszapihiemanshu: that does not mean it is simple to package, just take a look at the dependencies on the debian site..17:12
djszapimikhas: well, the problem starts by qmake... ;)17:12
hiemanshudjszapi: most of them are optional, it compiled without an extra deps via scratchbox17:12
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: but does it LOAD?17:13
djszapihiemanshu: I do not think that is a nice of packaging if you eliminate as much as you can17:13
djszapiit is good for local quick test, but as for a widely used community is no-go imho17:13
hiemanshudjszapi: yeah, I am working on adding everything17:13
hiemanshudjszapi: well I am going one by one, patching files that need patches17:13
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I need to package it to know that17:14
DocScrutinizerI see17:14
hiemanshudjszapi: makes more sense to go that way so you know, I know what plugin has the problem, but the core functionality works17:14
DocScrutinizerit's rather cosy how we are protected from ourselves on this platform ;-P17:14
djszapihiemanshu: I think it is just waste of time in normal case..but if you need something working asap without patience, it might be better yes.17:15
DocScrutinizerbut hey, when installing packages gets boring, try terminal minesweeper adventure17:15
kimjuDocScrutinizer, what's wrong with terminal?17:16
hiemanshukimju: what isnt? :P17:16
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kimjumissing copy-paste sucks.17:16
kimjubut otherwise it works for me17:16
mikhaskimju, in backlog17:16
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: [2011-07-31 21:28:21] <DocScrutinizer> I'm going to eventually document on wiki: "aegis is protecting arbitrary files from editing/deleting/renaming/chmod. You have no means to know if a file is protected that way. Touching such a file will possibly result in bricking and need for a reflash of complete system. That's the situation and you either deal with it or forget about harmattan, as nobody is going to do anything about17:16
kimjuI'm using the latest git version though.17:16
DocScrutinizerit to fix this permanent threat" Maybe NOT - CBA17:16
DocScrutinizerkimju: ^^17:16
kimjuoh well.. that's not terminals fault :D17:17
DocScrutinizerterminal just missing "New" and C&P17:18
DocScrutinizerand somebody already tackling that17:18
DocScrutinizerotherwise it seems fine17:19
mikhasdjszapi, if you can find the code for handling focus-out in your ported app, then just send a QEvent::CloseSoftwareInputPanel to qApp->inputContext17:19
djszapimikhas: I was just testing it, it is not my app :p17:19
djszapiVenemo's IRC client seems to fit better to me.17:20
kimjuDocScrutinizer, on current git version starting multiple terminals works after adding -n to the .desktop file.17:23
mikhaskimju, nice17:23
mikhaskimju, send a patch17:23
djszapiyep, that was fixed, someone posted it last time.17:23
DocScrutinizerregarding missing C&P in terminal, it's semi-useless unless at least web browser also learns to c&p in page text17:23
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mikhaswhich is, surprisingly, also in backlog17:24
mikhasAs if some teams @ Nokia knew what they are doing!17:24
DocScrutinizeras I'm not going to wget and dissect webpages with example code17:24
DocScrutinizerkimju: great17:24
kimjumikhas, after I get this compiling in obs..17:24
mikhasOBS … that's an upcoming rite of passage for me as well, I fear.17:25
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MohammadAGdjszapi, a touch oriented IRC client works better of course, but a temporary IRC client is fine I guess :P17:29
DocScrutinizerregarding the whole UX design and requirements specs I wonder what were the criteria for the selection of the usability testers. Or rather if any usability tests were done at all17:29
MohammadAGdjszapi, how do I go about making that public repo on OBS?17:29
djszapiMohammadAG: sorry ?17:30
DocScrutinizermust have been a strict "occasional users only - test duration 3 hours. NO POWER USERS". Otherwise I couldn't see how things like system wide c&p and so many other things slipped thru those tests17:31
DocScrutinizerslotmachine datepicker :-(17:33
DocScrutinizerwell QML at large obviously17:33
MohammadAGdjszapi, the no QA repo we talked about when I was at the hospital?17:33
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: seems that's now rzr repo17:34
djszapiMohammadAG: I can set you maintainer, just tell me your username there.17:34
MohammadAGbut what's rzr?17:35
djszapiok done:
djszapirzr is a cool guy :)17:35
npmhas anybody compiled emacs for harmattan?17:35
MohammadAGhow do I upload packages to OBS again? :P17:38
djszapiMohammadAG: osc or webinterface17:39
DocScrutinizerit's pretty much hidden so I don't find where it was said that this is our "interim community developr extras devel repo" now17:39
djszapiDocScrutinizer: read the wikipage in the topic17:39
DocScrutinizerI did, cursory, two or three times17:40
djszapiseems it is not enough for you...17:40
MohammadAGwhat's the difference between title and name?17:40
djszapiMohammadAG: as for me, nothing same names I put there :p17:40
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: >> Community repo / collaborative maintenance : <<17:40
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DocScrutinizeris all I see17:40
djszapi"...There is also a freshly established shared Community Repository for Harmattan that you can find here:"17:42
DocScrutinizerI'd rather expect a ""<code> echo "deb free nonfree >/etc/apt/lists.d/community-repo.list </code>"" there17:43
MohammadAGdjszapi, so after making a project there, do I upload the .changes file?17:44
djszapiMohammadAG: please do not make a new project :) Just use the existing shared community repository project17:44
DocScrutinizerduh, missing here17:44
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djszapiMohammadAG: no need for .changes, nope :)17:44
DocScrutinizeraaaah F5 helped ;-D17:45
djszapijust the orig.tar.gz the debian.tar.gz and the dsc file.17:45
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hiemanshu_N950mohammadag, the icon for communi shows up just fine for me, installing libirc and the app in one command works17:46
MohammadAGdjszapi, that's what I did?17:46
hiemanshu_N950MohammadAG: there is a autocomplete too next to the lineedit, but too small to notice :P17:47
mikhashiemanshu_N950, you can enable "confirm-with-space" in settings17:48
mikhas(and use backspace to cancel word candidate)17:48
djszapiMohammadAG: you made a new project ?17:48
hiemanshu_N950mikhas: but how do i get to settings?17:49
djszapi -> just add the files here.17:49
MohammadAGwhat files? .changes / .tar.gz and .dsc?17:49
mikhashiemanshu_N950, from app grid17:49
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: what is the recommended way / command to add the repo to the apt "list of repositories" ?17:50
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djszapiMohammadAG: 17:45 < djszapi> just the orig.tar.gz the debian.tar.gz and the dsc file.17:50
djszapiDocScrutinizer: it is documented on the wikipage as well17:51
MohammadAGerr, non standard way?17:51
djszapiDocScrutinizer: -> second line17:51
hiemanshu_N950mikhas: errr, i dont follow17:51
DocScrutinizersorry I'm blind.17:51
djszapiMohammadAG: sorry ?17:51
MohammadAGdjszapi, the standard way is .tar.gz, .changes and .dsc17:52
MohammadAGthat's what dput does17:52
djszapiMohammadAG: well, nope...17:53
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djszapiuse dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot and dpkg-buildpackage -S and you will see what the standard way is. The debian site is also a good hint.17:53
MohammadAGI've always used dpkg-buildpackage -sn -S17:54
djszapi.changes is just a duplication since you already have changelog inside the debian anyway.17:55
djszapiThe dsc file is also duplication in my opinion. That is just more like a convenient thing so that you can click on it on the web interface.17:56
djszapior actually, not just convenience since it has the check sums.17:57
hiemanshumikhas: ok, so how I do what you want me to do?17:57
kimjudjszapi, and for multi-tarball packages it lists what you need to get.17:58
kimjuwell, for single tarball too, but more usefull in the multi case17:58
djszapikimju: I did not see more than debian.tar.gz and orig.tar.gz yet17:58
djszapiany example ?17:59
mikhasI dont want you to do anything =p18:00
hiemanshumikhas: <mikhas> hiemanshu_N950, you can enable "confirm-with-space" in settings18:00
kimjudjszapi, don't actually remember seeing any yet, but debian source format 3.0 introduced such support.18:02
hiemanshudjszapi: thats the tar of the core and such, need to package it to work18:02
djszapikimju: yeah, 3.0 format is pretty cool18:03
djszapihiemanshu: sorry, I do not have time till the end of the Desktop Summit to package it :)18:04
hiemanshudjszapi: not a problem, I am going to learn to package, will have to do it18:04
kimjudh_make is your friend :)18:05
djszapihiemanshu: yeah, what I normally do is to package as debian does with all its dependency. There are some cases, where a dependency does not make too much sense, like selinux and such18:05
hiemanshudjszapi: yeah, I am going to look at that once I get everything else working fine in scratchbox18:06
djszapido not forget to use 3.0 source format all the time and disable the tests if it fails in qemu, that is a frequent situation18:06
* hiemanshu is a debian n00b18:06
kimjudebian has nice new maintainer guide.18:07
lcukdjszapi, did you find somebody for your regexp/18:07
kimjuand dh_make is tool to create skeleton for the packaging.18:08
djszapilcuk: yep, I found the regexp mistake, but I do not like regexpS. They are from the dark side :p18:09
lcukdjszapi, agreed18:10
djszapisomeone having experience with mic-chroot ? :p18:12
npm"origins of regular expressions lie in automata theory and formal language theory, both of which are part of theoretical computer science" ---> how is that the dark side.18:13
npmit's just that as usual ther'es a worse-is-better implementation18:13
djszapi"Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems."18:14
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rlinfatiHi, what means a omap "HS" and a omap "gp" ?18:15
npmthey had it right long ago... and are beginning to reinvent the wheel:
* npm did an assignment in CS in snobol18:15
kimjuwriting regexps is like preparing a fugu.. you really should know what you are doing :)18:16
mikhasI found interesting18:16
djszapilcuk: do you have experience with mic-chroot ? You are a meego expert :)18:16
mikhaswell, if you find regex hard then better never try haskell …18:17
djszapimikhas:  I could not still manage this short "..." :p18:17
kimjuand as said previously, I like writing perl and regexps.. :)18:17
MohammadAGdjszapi, so after adding the two files, how do I build?18:18
hiemanshudjszapi: I have used it a couple of times, not sure if I can help you though, but fire the question :)18:18
djszapiMohammadAG: two files ? I said three ;)18:18
djszapiis there a harmattan-offtopic channel ?18:19
MohammadAGyeah, #maemo :P18:19
djszapi(mic-chroot is more like that category)18:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: LOL18:19
MohammadAGwhy 3?18:19
djszapiMohammadAG: I like separating the debian content from the original...modularization is not bad thing...18:20
djszapiprovided, that is how the debian tools normally work with non-native packages...18:20
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djszapiMohammadAG: Also, it is much easier than having a bunch since that is how it is generated.18:29
djszapiwith all the checksums nicely and all.18:29
lcukdjszapi, s/expert/communicator/18:29
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lcukdjszapi, in my testing i could not get the chroot to work as expected18:30
lcukso left it for more advanced folks18:30
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kimjulbt, happened again. I uploaded new version, obs started building it, took 45 minutes to setup the build env, then 15 min to successfully build the packege. after printing "build: extracting built packages...", "mg-terminal_0.1.8.1+git-mg2_armel.deb" nothing happened. and after a while, it started building another package on the same worker, my package is still listed as building there and the .deb is not appearing on repo.18:42
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Mek, some simple unit conversion app I'm working on, but right now it supports so many units that the UI gets a bit hard to use...18:59
lcukMek, simple and too many options do not go together19:13
lcukstart literally simple19:13
lcukmake it convert a very specific set of items19:13
lcukcreate the ui flow around that, include pretty qt dials and stuff19:14
lcuk(like the set alarm clock input thingie19:14
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ieatlintcan anyone confirm that the n950 does not seem to have 802.11n/5ghz support?19:31
Stskeepsit's wl1271, does it have it?19:32
hiemanshuit does support n19:34
ieatlintfrom what i can gleam from google, it appears to support 5ghz19:34
ieatlinti was unable to see my 5ghz network with the device is all... i'm suspecting it may be a software issue then19:34
SpeedEvilJust because the chipset supports n, does not mean it has the required external hardware to do so.19:35
ieatlintthat's true, may not have antenna19:36
SpeedEvilSwitches and matching components I was thinking of, the antenna may 'just work' as it's twice the frequency19:36
ieatlinti'm under the explicit understanding that the n9 does support it though.. which gives some suggestion that the n950 would19:37
hiemanshuieatlint: my router is running in a mixed mode and it works19:37
ieatlinthiemanshu: i run my 802.11n network as 5ghz only, and the 2.4ghz as 802.11abg... it can't see the 5ghz only19:38
ieatlintgrr, and another day getting burnt by aegis appears19:51
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DocScrutinizeraiui the 1271 doesn't support 5GHz at all20:09
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lcukDocScrutinizer, it is deffo the battery o_O20:10
kimjuyes, only bgn at 2.4GHz, you want 1273 for abgn and 5GHz.20:10
DocScrutinizerkimju: exactly20:10
DocScrutinizerlcuk: sorry?20:10
lcukboot issue on n95020:10
DocScrutinizerlcuk: stack error20:10
lcukthe battery is too drained to get far enough to boot20:11
DocScrutinizeryeah, toldya you may want to use the "new" --charge-battery option of flasher20:11
lcukthe battery is too drained to even get to flashable area20:11
lcuki said, that only comes up when connected to wallwart usb20:12
DocScrutinizerI gather there's a reason for that new function in flasher, probably it's needed occasionally20:12
lcuki do not see that listed as a command line option20:14
DocScrutinizerI've not bothered to check ~flatbatrecover for this device yet20:14
lcukwhich version of flasher has it?20:14
* lcuk downloaded and installed it this morning20:14
lcukgary@gary-laptop:~/fm_950$ flasher -V20:14
lcukflasher 3.11.5 (May 17 2011) Harmattan20:14
DocScrutinizerask MohammadAG - he pasted the flasher options of *some* harmattan flasher several weeks ago20:14
DocScrutinizeraiui there are at least 2 versions, a binary to download directly, and the one inside one-click20:15
DocScrutinizerthat can get extracted by hitting ^C at right moment20:15
lcuki got the windows oneclick about a week ago20:15
lcukbut this flasher is the .deb for linux20:15
DocScrutinizerlcuk: please pester Nokia (service | SDK tema | random) about it. I think they should get to know about what's missing from their "developer kit" and SDK deployment. I'm reluctant to help out20:18
lcukI am just conversing :)20:20
DocScrutinizerlcuk: probably you have to compile some QML app to make the thing charge ;-P20:21
DocScrutinizeror learn/discover about some magic aegis spell20:23
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DocScrutinizerNokia missed to send me an early prototype to do a free evaluation that would've revealed such issues. They don't like to disclose hw docs either. Now I think it's up to them to get out of the hole they dug for themselves20:25
DocScrutinizerit's a pity though that users/developers like you are falling into that hole as well20:26
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover20:27
fralslcuk: connect it to computer via usb, and then start flasher, it will complaing about battery level and start charging20:28
DocScrutinizer...has been entirely investigated by me20:28
DocScrutinizerNokia didn't share a single word about it20:28
fralsleave it connected and it should trickle charge and after a while it will charge from wall/normaly20:28
lcukthe phone does not get far enough to connect usb20:28
lcuki left it on the wallwart last night20:28
fralslcuk: just connect usb and plug to charger20:28
fralsplug to computer, not charger20:28
fralsand start flasher20:29
lcukit has been left in the pc all day20:29
fralsiirc it did some magic, but dont quote me on this20:29
lcukflasher just sits idle20:29
lcukSuitable USB interface (bootloader/phonet) not found, waiting...20:30
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lcukDocScrutinizer, unplugged20:30
lcukSuitable USB interface (bootloader/phonet) not found, waiting...20:31
fralsguess you can always unscrew the backplate and charge the battery in some other device ;((20:31
lcuki will try an alternative battery20:31
lcukyeah frals20:31
lcukbut I should file a bug against this20:31
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DocScrutinizertoo late20:42
DocScrutinizerthere are no patches for HW usually - sth all the SW crowd tends to forget20:43
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DocScrutinizerI could start wild guessing about what hardware is handling this flatbatrecover and charging at large, in which way, and what might be the problem and the workaround if any. As Nokia refuses to disclose hw details I CBA20:49
DocScrutinizerother than my own N900 I'm probably not supposed to do this: with the N950, to find out what's inside the blackbox20:50
DocScrutinizereven if I did, I wouldn't know enough to even ponder analyzing what's wrong, unless Nokia discloses schematics to me or I'd do this:
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lcuki just heard it should be possible to use n810 to charge up the battery o_O21:05
* lcuk grabs screwdrivers21:05
DocScrutinizertorx TX421:05
DocScrutinizerdon't even think about using sth different21:06
lcuk"errr little yellow starpoint one"21:06
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* lcuk technical 21:06
ieatlinthuh, thought it was TX321:06
DocScrutinizeryeah, TX3 *may* work21:07
DocScrutinizerI'd not dare to try it21:07
DocScrutinizeronce you ruined one of the screws so TX4 doesn't grip anymore, it's "get the dremel, drill it out"21:07
kimjuit's torx size 4.21:08
kimjufit perfectly.21:08
ieatlintsounds like fun21:09
hiemanshuyeah, I used a TX4 screw too21:09
kimjuthe battery is not the same as in n810, but it's about 5mm shorter. might fit there, or some other phone using similar batteries. and even get charged.21:10
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hiemanshudoesn't the N8 have a BL 4D21:12
hiemanshuIIRC even the N97 mini has one21:12
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lcukhiemanshu, theBL-$D - is that what s in n950 and n8?21:14
lcukif so, i will swap them and use n8 to charge it up21:14
hiemanshulcuk: yeah, the N950 has a BL-4D21:14
hiemanshulcuk: I could unscrew if you want me to double check the battery21:15
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: see link ^^^21:16
lcukhiemanshu, unscrew what?21:16
hiemanshulcuk: the N95021:16
DocScrutinizerN8 I guess21:16
DocScrutinizerthe N950 *has* BL-4D21:17
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I know the N8 and the N97 mini had the BL-4D, and so does the N950 too21:17
DocScrutinizerBL-4D fits just fine to N81021:23
DocScrutinizerCBA to test charging, guess it'll work21:23
DocScrutinizerBP-4L doesn't fir into N950 ;-P21:24
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lcukbattery failure.21:25
lcukwith battery from n8, device boots happily21:25
lcukand flasher even sees it21:25
DocScrutinizerconfirmed: a powered-down N950 doesn't take *any* noticeable (I.E. >50mA) current from USB quite from the start. Needs to bootup to start the "charging" circuit. So quite likely it won't recover from a battery too flat to boot up the hardware to the state where sw-controlled charging could take over - no matter if that's autonomous or by help of a flasher I'd guess21:28
DocScrutinizeras a flasher also only could talk to SW to do anything about charging21:29
ieatlintso we need to keep an n8 around to recover batteries?21:29
SpeedEvilIt would be iteresting to veryify - discharge battery to 2.V21:30
dm8tbrI can do that in the interest of science ;)21:30
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: or N810, yes21:30
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: lcuk actually just verified it21:31
ieatlintstay classy, nokia21:31
dm8tbrjust need to find me some nice resistor in the lab21:31
SpeedEvilMissed that.21:31
SpeedEvilnvm then.21:31
* ieatlint thinks fondly of openmoko21:31
dm8tbralthough I know of people who had 'dead' devices and managed to get them back using -Owait-charging21:31
lcukhiemanshu, DocScrutinizer thanks for letting me know battery alternative devices21:31
* SpeedEvil is depressed at how many echos of Openmoko there have been in Nokia.21:32
dm8tbrbtw: just to jumpstart the battery any nokia phone where you can make contact (even if the battery sticks out weird) should be fine21:32
DocScrutinizerlcuk: even while I reduced my plans about N9(50) to maybe 20% of the original list, I still feel I can help on those issues where I clearly excel21:33
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lcukn8 is flashing charge indicator at me, the n8 manual specifies this is low charge situation21:45
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: :-D seems N8 is better at flatbatrecover discipline21:49
DocScrutinizeryou know which cpu/SoC the N8 is using?21:50
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RST38hhey, anyone knows how I can switch a theme on n950?22:23
mikhasgconftool-2 -s /meegotouch/theme/name -t string "base"22:25
mikhaswhat, you will refuse to use gconf?22:26
mikhasit also switches the theme for Qt Component based apps22:26
mikhas*if* they use theme daemon (which is the default I think)22:26
RST38hmghm...did not help22:28
RST38hI am trying to run qtcomponents examples and getting this:
RST38hIt is driving me crazy.Anyone able to tell what I am missing?22:29
mikhasare you running it on the device?22:30
mikhashum … is the theme daemon up and running?22:32
RST38hguess so, what is the process name?22:32
RST38h 672 user     -sh -c exec /usr/bin/mthemedaemon 2>&1 | /usr/bin/logger -t mthemedaemon22:33
RST38h  681 user     /usr/bin/mthemedaemon22:33
RST38h  682 user     /usr/bin/logger -t mthemedaemon22:33
mikhasanything in the logfiles?22:33
mikhasthe error could mean that app and theme daemon run in different graphics modes22:34
mikhaswhich is not supported22:34
mikhasand theme daemon runs in OpenGL + MeeGo GS hybrid mode22:34
kimjuany pointers how to force software not to rotate with the device?22:34
RST38hmikhas: ok. so how do I force qmlviewer into the same mode?22:35
mikhasqmlviewer :-D22:35
mikhasyou forgot to mention that!22:35
mikhasdunno, try qmlviewer -graphicssystem meego22:36
mikhasbut I doubt it works22:36
mikhasqmlviewer is kind of unsupported if you want to use Qt components22:36
RST38hRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~/MyDocs$ qmlviewer -graphicssystem meego main.qml  |more22:37
RST38hQml debugging is enabled. Only use this in a safe environment!22:37
RST38hUsing the meego graphics system22:37
RST38hValid eglHandle received but not running with meego compatible graphicssystem.22:37
RST38hValid eglHandle received but not running with meego compatible graphicssystem.22:37
mikhasno that looks as if qmlviewer switches back22:38
mikhasreally, write those 10 lines of C++ instead22:38
mikhas(you might not want to copy the resource system hack)22:39
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mikhaswhy does this idiotic Madde crap try to do its own packaging when a perfectly valid debian packaging setup already exists?!23:01
mikhasI hate the attitude when tools assume they always know better than the user.23:01
kimjuand all tools seem to be broken in one way or another..23:05
kimjutodays offenders: qmake and obs.23:06
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djszapilcuk: did you learn the mic-chroot tool in the last few hours ? :p23:16
djszapikimju: what is wrong about obs ?23:16
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lardmanevening chaps23:18
DocScrutinizerlo lardman23:18
lardmanhey Doc23:18
lardmananyone know what the summary screen is called officially and whether there's an api?23:18
kimjudjszapi, builds package but then leaves the package in "building" state for hours (6h currently) and doesn't put the binaries into the repo.23:18
DocScrutinizerI seem to recall I posted some hints for you when you were gone, some day(s) ago. Did you notice?23:19
djszapikimju: ohh it has been like that for ages, not just today :p23:19
lardmanDocScrutinizer: no, I'll check the logs though23:19
lardmanif only you'd asked infobot to remind me ;)23:20
DocScrutinizeractually somebody suggested that and I answered "he wouldn't probably notice the difference"23:20
DocScrutinizeralas I can't recall the exact wording so you could search in chanlog23:22
DocScrutinizerand I completely forgot what it was all about23:22
DocScrutinizeraaah, but I said sth like "and lardman is still in this channel, just afk obviously. So infobot wouldn't notice him joining"23:24
kimju    // portrait (at the time of writing this QSystemDisplayInfo.orientation did23:25
kimju    // not work, it always returned QSystemDisplayInfo::Landscape)23:25
kimju    if (size().width() == 480) {23:25
kimjumeh.. nice and portable code.23:25
DocScrutinizerlol, yeah23:25
DocScrutinizerif (size().width() < size().height() ) { obviously was way smarter23:27
mikhasuntil you hit a device where the physical screen width in landscape mode is smaller than height23:28
kimjuthis is meego-terminal23:28
* lardman wishes FF highlight colour was still easily-visible-when-scrolling-page yellow23:29
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mikhaskimju, fix it ;-)23:29
DocScrutinizermikhas: define landscape mode23:29
mikhasabove check seems to rely on pixels23:30
kimjumikhas, I'm trying to find out way to get this stay in landscape mode, regardless of the device orientation.23:30
DocScrutinizerwell, yes, that's a flaw23:30
DocScrutinizer*should* also take resolution into account, to get real screen dimensions rather than number of pixels23:31
mikhaskimju, terminal is MTF, so here you go:
kimjuoo. thanks!23:32
* DocScrutinizer tries to figure a 4:3 display that has 480/line and 512 lines23:32
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DocScrutinizereven 320/line?23:33
kimjuDocScrutinizer, note that the display might not have the same aspect ratio as the whole device. which one is going to be the defining factor?23:33
DocScrutinizerhah, interesting point23:33
DocScrutinizerI don't think the landscape of N9(0|5)0 will suddenly get called portrait when you slide out the kbd to change the formfactor of the case23:35
SpeedEvilConsider subpixel lies too.23:35
DocScrutinizerkimju: so in my book I'd say it's always the screen aspect ratio that defines landscape / portrait status23:36
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DocScrutinizerimagine a palm pre alike device with a long kbd and a small 16:9 screen above it, wider than high. Now you turn this pre so the whole device sits on right long side, and the screen is higher than wide - you'd call this landscape?23:39
lardmanDocScrutinizer: I've given up searching the logs, but was this what you linked?
DocScrutinizerbut maybe the whole thing was about inotify?23:44
DocScrutinizer...and you noticed it already?23:44
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lardmanyes I saw the inotify stuff, mgedmin was also discussing iirc, thanks to both23:47
lardmanI've kept that Qt-based and just use a QTimer to check the size of a QImage created from the file in question, once it's not null, I proceed23:48

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