IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-07-31

lardmanmgedmin: yeah barcodes, and also other data extracted from  photos taken wit the standard camera00:03
lardmanDocScrutinizer: QFileSystemWatcher wraps the inotify stuff00:04
lardmanHooking into tracker would be an option of course, though I was trying to avoid adding complexity00:04
lardmanas this route becomes more complex.... ;)00:04
lardmanah, close write notification.... hmm is it worth writing my own Qt wrapper for that I wonder....00:05
* lardman really does head off this time00:06
lardmannight all, catch you tomorrow00:06
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leinirhm... not easy to build something which looks like the add contact dialogue... when the components for building it aren't the ones available to us mere mortals :P00:45
mikhasleinir, ask them00:45
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leinir_more than that, however, is that my internets are utterly and, it seems, irrevocably broken :P00:53
leinir_(luckily i'm moving soon, to a place where the phone wires are younger than a fifty years :P )00:53
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leinir_Hmm... is there a list of the various ui variables? such as font sizes and that sort :)00:56
mikhasYou should find it somewhere in the Qt Quick Components repo.00:57
mikhasBecause they need to hardcode this stuff, too, in lieu of a theming engine.00:57
leinir_Hmm... very silly... i think i've got it, though, it seems to be in the ui guidelines )00:58
djszapiwell, it is still better than some things in libmeegotouch.00:59
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rm_youerrrr what05:30
rm_youhow am i an unclear case or a lazy wiki editor05:30
rm_youthe moment i received my device i updated it to say "Device Received". how more clear could i have gotten05:30
rm_you"Adam Harwell Device Received"05:31
rm_youi'm in with a bunch of people who didn't update05:31
rm_youthat makes no sense05:31
SpeedEvilThe editor can't edit properly pro bably05:32
SpeedEvilput your entry in the right group05:32
rm_youjust annoying, because i was trying to be very purposefully helpful and keep my entry up to date05:33
rm_youand i get shoved in with a bunch of people who actually didn't05:33
rm_youedited. still weird.05:36
rm_youanywho, off to see captain america05:36
rm_youhe's from AMERICA05:36
* rm_you leaves05:36
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antman8969any one else have their n950s stop showing emoticons?05:41
antman8969it's kind of annoying now05:41
trxwow, i didn't even get my n95005:45
trxand you have trouble with emoticons..05:46
antman8969one day you'll be able to wonder what people are feeling in texts too05:46
antman8969awesome :) != awesome :(05:46
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GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to implement that for Harmattan.06:07
GeneralAntillesMaybe just use MMS.06:07
SpeedEvilNot quite06:08
SpeedEvilIt's a GSM feature.06:09
SpeedEvilOh - maybe not06:09
SpeedEvilIn that implementation.06:09
SpeedEvilBut push-talk is a supported feature of GSM.06:09
SpeedEvilSeems that that might be VOIP instead06:09
SpeedEvilah - yeah - voip06:10
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, right, but we'd have to host the backend servers then.06:41
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, would it be feasible to hook into Telepathy and MMS instead?06:42
SpeedEvilMMS is not a transparent byte stream.06:42
SpeedEvilIt will only pass certain classes of object06:42
GeneralAntillesAh, OK.06:42
SpeedEvilAlso - it's murderously expensive.06:42
DocScrutinizer(AFAIK:) basically MMS is just sending a "special" SMS with an URL that points to a the real content, which is then going to get downloaded usually from a "darknet"  I.E. a dedicated APN, that also has its own charging plan06:45
GeneralAntillesAaah, right then.06:46
DocScrutinizers/sending/addressee receiving/06:46
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: (AFAIK:) basically MMS is just addressee receiving a "special" SMS with an URL that points to a the real content, which is then going to get downloaded usually from a "darknet"  I.E. a dedicated APN, that also has its own charging plan06:46
GeneralAntillesSo, then, no MMS.06:46
GeneralAntillesJust push it all over Telepathy?06:46
GeneralAntilles(Does that previous sentence actually mean anything?)06:48
DocScrutinizermine? sorry was a bit scrambled maybe06:48
GeneralAntillesNo, mine about Telepathy.06:49
GeneralAntillesYours was perfect.06:49
SpeedEvilIn principle, it's not that expensive.06:50
SpeedEvilFind a flexible web service.06:50
SpeedEvilSomething like amazon.06:50
SpeedEvilWhich you can scale arbitrarily, to act like a bouncer06:50
DocScrutinizerMMS means the provider's MMS exchange sends a special SMS to addressee.  This SMS is much like a normal SMS but holds a URL pointing to a server with your multimedia content. The download from this server will be like TCP but not via public internet usually. Rather it uses a dedicated APN for access to a closed WAN06:51
DocScrutinizermeh, and I tried so hard to get a better one ;-P06:51
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, hey, practice makes perfect, right? :P06:52
DocScrutinizeryeah, I'm practicing patience and restraint on dealing with trolls like fahadj2003 and un_abill_uk06:55
TermanaDoes HeyTell use MMS? I think the good part of it, at least from the demo, is it seems to be instant. I don't know about everyone else but MMS has always been SLOW as a dog for me, so something tells me it's not.06:55
DocScrutinizerI'm afraid I'll never get perfect on that discipline though06:55
GeneralAntillesNo, it's VoIP or something.06:55
DocScrutinizerPTT? afaik that's more or less like parking/putting_on_hold a normal (or conference) call06:57
DocScrutinizerthere was a similar feature for ISDN since dunno 199006:58
DocScrutinizerbasically you keep the INVITE/session (the connection), and just stop data transmission. Resume is almost instant (nn milliseconds)06:59
DocScrutinizerfor PTT it's also one-to-many (conference), and half-duplex (you can't listen while you speak - aka PushToTalk :-D ) usually07:01
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Stskeepsmgedmin: use login08:14
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rm_youam i the only person that doesn't understand what the difference is between this push to talk thing, and making a damn phonecall?08:38
rm_youexcept that push to talk is more annoying and you have to constantly be pressing a button?08:38
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DocScrutinizerrm_you: call setup is instant08:39
DocScrutinizerrm_you: far end doesn't need to accept call, as it'S already established08:39
rm_youwhen you press the "call button"?08:39
rm_youbasically an auto-accept?08:39
rm_youthat sounds like a bad idea08:39
rm_youwouldn't it have to let you know a message is ready08:40
rm_youand you then click play?08:40
rm_youat which point, just answer the phone08:40
DocScrutinizerthat is implementation detail - how does that matter08:40
rm_youthis demo is entirely un-enlightening08:40
DocScrutinizerPTT is walkie-talkie for GSM08:41
rm_youi guess i could see applications if it were broadcast like a walkie talkie08:42
rm_youso multiple people could get it08:42
rm_youotherwise i still don't see why not just make a phone call08:42
DocScrutinizerit isa08:42
rm_youok so...08:42
rm_youyou just need to make the initial handshake08:42
rm_youcan we intercept SMS?08:42
DocScrutinizerread backscroll, I explained about that08:43
rm_younot sending messages over SMS08:43
rm_youSMS communicates the invite to a "channel" or somesuch08:43
rm_youwith connect-back details08:43
rm_youprobably would require something like a tracker08:43
rm_you(like a bittorrent tracker)08:43
rm_youexcept instead of joining a bittorrent swarm, you join a call08:44
rm_youthe tracker maintains connection details to active clients (phones008:44
rm_youand the rest is P2P08:44
rm_youthe only SMS is the first invite08:44
DocScrutinizernfc, I only know GSM based PTT08:44
rm_youthe app intercepts the invite-SMS, and opens itself and says "you've been invited to this conversation, join?"08:45
rm_youand it basically just has the tracker IP and the convo UID08:45
rm_youso then you become an active client08:45
rm_youand the rest works like bittorrent08:45
rm_youactually it could work EXACTLY like BT08:46
rm_youyour message gets sent to everyone in the convo08:46
rm_youand once one or two have it, they can help send parts :P08:46
rm_youi'm just saying, that's an idea about how to do it08:46
rm_youprobably it is not set up that way at all for heytell, lol08:46
rm_youi'm not really talking about how it ACTUALLY works, i'm just theorizing one way to accomplish the end result08:48
rm_youthis sounds much to limiting, compared to what i was theorizing08:48
DocScrutinizer>>PTT. OMA PoC also assumed it is a service for consumers which is not true. PTT/PoC is an enterprise service. On the bottom line, it is more of a North American phenomenon due to existence of iDEN and other networks. Other parts of the world do not know the service and operators are having a hard time identifying who needs this service<<08:56
rm_youwell i've expended all of my ingenuity for the night09:16
rm_youit's sleep time ;P09:16
* rm_you sleeps09:16
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RST38hAnyone has got an example of adding items to the application toolbar?10:04
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hiemanshuRST38h: widgets gallery?11:08
* dm8tbr ponders how to figure out how to reimplement the google-talk account plugin to make telepathy work with arbitrary xmpp servers11:10
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Arkenoidm8tbr: where can i get google talk account plugin?11:23
dm8tbrArkenoi: I saw a screenshot somewhere11:24
Arkenoiah. i guess it is not released yet.11:25
dm8tbrArkenoi: more interesting is that there is telepathy and probably telpathy-gabble11:25
Arkenoiyes, both are in default install, but not account plugin11:26
dm8tbrnow the interesting thing will be to make an account-ui that makes telepathy talk to XMPP servers11:26
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RST38hAnyone actually developing for n950 here?11:36
rcgmorning btw ;)11:39
* mikhas raises hand11:39
rcgi think most people in here are developing for n95011:40
ieatlintn9/50... yeah... kinda wasting your time in this channel otherwise11:42
RST38hrcg, ieatlint: Could you enlighten me on how to add items to that gray toolbar at the bottom of harmattan QMainWindow???11:43
RST38hI cannot even get a pointer to this toolbar...11:43
StskeepsRST38h: i think you're in for a world of hurt if you rely on meegotouch-qt-style :P11:44
ieatlintuh, grey toolbar at the bottom?11:44
rcgRST38h: well i did all my ui stuff in qml.. there its pretty straightforward to do this11:44
ieatlintyeah, you should be using qml, or if you're feeling particularly adventurous, mtf11:44
RST38hStskeeps: I am using QMainWindow, it is plain Qt, syntactically11:45
RST38hrcg,ieatlint: ok, thanks11:45
RST38hAnyone who knows the answer?11:45
RST38hStskeeps: and, as the bar shows up anyway, I can just as well use it for adding items, right?11:45
ieatlinti suspect you won't find the answer you're looking for... mtf is as close as you'll get without touching qml11:45
StskeepsRST38h: yes, just warning you that qt probably isn't styled in any mobile way on final devices11:45
StskeepsRST38h: a screenshot would help11:46
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ieatlinti think you're just seeing the statusbar that's part of a qmainwindow11:46
rcgwell.. plain qt apps on the n950 essentially look like plain desktop apps11:46
ieatlintbut that won't behave as you think it will11:47
RST38hStskeeps: (the one with the plus)11:47
RST38hieatlint: attempts to remove the status bar do not.11:47
StskeepsRST38h: is that qml or not?11:48
rcgqml actually aint that hard.. and you can quite easily interact with your existing Qt/C++ classes11:48
RST38hStskeeps: QMainWindow,no qml11:48
ieatlintRST38h: the notes app is either qml or mtf, i don't know which11:48
StskeepsRST38h: ok, how does this look with -style plastique? :P11:48
ieatlintbut it's not straight qt methinks11:48
Stskeepsmeegotouch-qt-style is -really really buggy-11:48
RST38hStskeeps: dunno, lemme try11:48
RST38hStskeeps: looks the same11:49
StskeepsRST38h: doesn't sound right, should revert to plain-qt11:50
RST38hStskeeps: nope11:50
RST38hStskeeps: always shows up.11:50
RST38hStskeeps: every single harmattan app comes with this bar.Plain QMainWindow shows up with this bar (no MTF in sight)11:54
RST38hStskeeps: and you are saying it should not be there? =)11:54
StskeepsRST38h: pretty much, as your ui very much looks styled11:54
RST38hthat screenshot was not my ui btw, simply an example11:55
MohammadAGRST38h, try showFullscreen() in main.cpp11:56
RST38hYes, it hides the bar11:56
fralsthe bar is the toolbar, dunno how its supported in plain qt applications though...11:56
RST38hMohamad: But I would like to add some buttons to it11:56
MohammadAGRST38h, QMenuBar11:56
fralsi have a feeling you would have to do qml or mtf to control it, but im just speculating11:56
RST38hfrals: Can I get a pointer to it somehow, from QMainWindow?11:56
fralsor yeah, maybe qmenubar as MohammadAG says11:57
RST38hMohammad: adding a menu bar creates a new bar11:57
RST38hMohammad:in Qt default style11:57
RST38hMohammad: asking for a status bar also create a new status bar11:57
RST38hin Qt default style as well11:57
MohammadAGmy QMenuBar shows as a button in the bottom right11:57
RST38hSo, this thick gray thing is something else11:58
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RST38hMohammad: Shows as a real desktop-like bar here11:58
MohammadAGhmm, that's weird11:58
* MohammadAG gets on his laptop11:58
MohammadAGoh nice, laptop doesn't turn on12:00
RST38hMohammad: Try calling menuBar() and statusBar() on your QMainWindow.See if you get extra bars.12:00
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MohammadAGLooks like it's fried or something12:01
MohammadAGand my N900's uSD looks fried too12:03
MohammadAG49894.842987] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card12:04
MohammadAGthere goes my music library12:04
RST38hremove, reinsert12:04
Stskeepsyeah, what rst38h said12:04
MohammadAGdone that12:04
ieatlintbut on the plus side, you apparently got your n95012:04
Stskeepsperhaps take it past a pc12:04
RST38hThe Tentacled One rarely strikes all gadgets at once.12:05
MohammadAGit's back12:05
MohammadAGand my laptop turned on, weird12:05
RST38hOk, an easier question: how do I listen to QActions using a single function and distinguish which QAction triggered it>12:05
MohammadAGoh fuck12:06
MohammadAGI had the a different HP charger in it12:06
RST38hthe connect() approach does not appear to let e do it12:06
ieatlintRST38h: there's a macro that tells you the calling object for a slot, but i've been told it's sloppy to use it12:06
* RST38h will be sloppy when everything else fails.12:07
ieatlinttrying to find it12:07
ieatlintQObject::sender() ... ok, not a macro12:08
ieatlintcomplete with the warnings that it's not a good idea to use most of the time12:09
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RST38hieatlint: thanks =)12:11
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RST38hsbox-HARMATTAN_ARMEL: /host/EMUL8/Speccy/Meego/Package] > /usr/bin/moc12:30
RST38hbash: /usr/bin/moc: No such file or directory12:30
* RST38h wonders if QActions can be used without resorting to signals, slots, and the moc madness12:32
ieatlintuh, missing moc means your toolchain is broken12:32
ieatlinti don't think you'll avoid moc by not using signal anyway12:33
RST38hof course I will12:34
RST38halready have12:34
RST38hthe moc binary is actually there, sb just can't run it12:35
ieatlintheh, nice12:35
ieatlintand generally no, using qaction without signals/slots is a bad idea12:35
ieatlintyou might be able to accomplish it by subclassing qaction and reimplementing event() to do your own bidding12:36
ieatlintbut remember event() should return quickly... and enjoy working on cross thread communication without signals/slots12:36
RST38hieatlint: ah, goodidea12:37
* RST38h goes off to subclass QAction12:38
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* ieatlint is happy he'll never have to maintain RST38h's code :)12:38
* vandenoever wonders how to paste from clipboard to terminal on n95012:43
kimjuI don't think it is possible currently.12:45
kimjuon meego-terminal git there are newer version that has some copy/paste support, but not yet enabled on mtf.12:46
vandenoeverkimju: what is mtf?12:46
RST38hieatlint: much cleaner than you think12:47
vandenoeverok, so it's pretty integral12:47
RST38hieatlint: just becase qt trolls tell you they do not like something, does not mean it can be used sanely12:48
ieatlinti can believe that about qobject::sender(), but subclassing qaction to avoid using the triggered() signal seems scary to me12:49
RST38hieatlint: I am not avoiding anything12:51
RST38hieatlint: I have got code that handles menu items as virtual key clicks12:52
RST38hieatlint: which makes my code portable, unlike the stuff produced by the qt team12:53
RST38hieatlint: Now, since I am only interested in QAction::data() field and not in creating a separate callback function for each QAction, the signal/slot model is basically useless for me, a hindrance if you wish12:53
RST38hHence QAction subclassing, thanks for the tip12:54
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RST38hNah, it is weird but QAction activations are NOT sent through QAction::event()13:30
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RST38hMOOO wazd13:32
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RST38hStskeeps,are you there?13:44
wazd_RST38h: o/13:45
RST38hWhy would sb1 fail to run moc?13:47
RST38h /usr/bin/moc is a symlink to /usr/bin/host-moc13:47
RST38h the host-moc is an ARM binary. but it does not run.13:47
kimjuis other host-* binaries working?13:49
RST38hhost-cpp runs13:50
RST38hhost-rcc does not13:50
RST38hhost-qmake does not13:50
kimjurun on host, as root: /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core restart13:50
RST38hAll /usr/bin/host-* tools fail to run13:50
RST38hruns now! thanks, what was it?13:51
kimjuthat restarted the sb emulation processes etc..13:52
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lcukDocScrutinizer, what is the filesystem point for the compass again?14:57
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lbtdo we have any official Debian Developers (or MOTU (or similar)) around who can *mentor* (not do) getting some fundamental packages into Surrounds:Testing (like debhelper and friends)15:12
lbteg M4rtinK2 is having issues with dependencies whilst preparing debhelper and dpkg-dev15:12
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RST38hOk. QML time now, I guess15:21
RST38hStskeeps: still here?15:21
* Stskeeps has to go15:23
RST38hStskeeps: wait wait short question15:29
RST38hStskeeps: /usr or /opt ? Where do I install on N950 to stay kosher?15:30
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mikhasIf you install to N950 then at least device stays kosher.15:36
mikhasRST38h, no optification on N950 AFAIK15:36
SpeedEvilIs / on emmc?15:39
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RST38hStill, need to know what the preferred install point is15:46
thpSpeedEvil: / is ~ 3.9 GB here (N950)15:46
thpRST38h: /opt/<appname>/ i think for 3rd party apps on meego15:47
thpRST38h: although everything will work and there is no technical reason for optification on harmattan anymore15:47
RST38hthp: aha15:47
thpso if you already have packaging that installs into /usr/{bin/,...}, that's okay too I guess15:48
thpovi store and/or appup might have different requirements, i'm not sure. but /opt/<appname>/ should make the stores happy as well15:48
RST38hthp: Do you by any chance know how to add stuff to the gray toolbar at the bottom of QMainWindow?15:55
SpeedEvilthp: I guess there is no small flash device on the n950 then?15:57
lcukmy n950 won't bootup :S16:04
macmaNlcuk: what you do16:04
lcukbattery went flat16:05
lcukit is a clean flash with no mods16:05
lcuknow plugged into charger for ages nothing will happen16:05
lcukwhen I plug charger in the led flashes for 0.1s max16:05
lcukahh bit more now16:05
lcuka few times and the led is on, prolly charging now16:06
lcukhmm back off again16:07
* lcuk would pop the n900 battery at this point normally to ensure clean boot organisation16:07
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lardmanafternoon all16:28
lcukhi lardman16:30
lardmanhey lcuk16:30
lcuklardman, I implemented polyfill routine :)16:31
lcuktook lots of math and logic and has been bugging me for a while16:31
lardmanlike flood-fill?16:31
lcukscanline polyfill16:31
lardmanflood filling a shape with lots of sides?16:31
lardmanI've got some docs about that for my image processing course16:32
RST38hIf I want to install qmlviewer to the device, what package should I install?16:32
lcukit looks pretty when implemented too:
* RST38h moos at lardman16:32
lardmanhi RST38h16:32
thpRST38h: no, sorry. i just know that you can get rid of it by using showMaximized() or showFullScreen()16:32
RST38hthp: Yeah16:33
thpSpeedEvil: i'm not sure if there's a small flash device. if there is, it isn't used for the rootfs at least16:33
RST38hthp: But I need to create a finger-sized toolbar and would like to use the one that is already created16:33
thpRST38h: it's not related to QAction or something? or maybe some toolbar-related stuff?16:33
RST38hthp: I cannot even find a handle to it16:33
RST38hthp:any attempts to get menuBar,statusBar, etc fromthe QMainWindow simplycreate a tiny Qt bar16:34
RST38hShit, I am completely lost :( The SB1 qmlviewer does not work inside SB1. I cannot find a qmlviewer package to install on N950. And if I simply copy a binary, aegis will prevent it from working.16:41
RST38hSo, HOW THE HELL am I supposed to "get started on QtQuick components"????16:42
RST38h+ I am unable to add a finger-friendly toolbar ormenu bar without QML, as it seems16:43
thpRST38h: try installing a qmlviewer .deb16:43
thpRST38h: or use pyside :p a qmlviewer is a few lines of code. i can pastebin it somewhere if you like (the python binary is already aegis-blessed, so you can run arbitrary python scripts)16:45
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RST38hyes I know it is a few lines16:46
RST38hbut I amnotgoing to go through my own writing and packaging of it16:46
RST38hwhere is the deb anyway?16:46
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thphmm i'm not sure. just tried googling for it, but didn't find it16:46
RST38hfound it16:49
mikhashave you tried installing qt4-qmlviewer16:49
hiemanshuI wonder if the SDK on the phone is any different from the normal SDK?16:50
* lardman has given qt quick a skip16:50
lardmanfor some reason the SDK lacks the viewer application on my laptop16:50
mikhaslardman, probably not using Qt 4.816:51
lardmanmikhas: yeah quite possibly16:51
lardmanwhat comes with the N950?16:51
hiemanshulardman: its an online installer, that *does't* work though, and the size of the file is a little different16:52
mikhaswell, the device actually has a patched Qt 4.7.416:52
hiemanshuah damn, you meant mikhas, /me *facepalm*16:52
lardmanYep, thought I was using 4.7.something16:52
lardmaniirc you do finally get the qml viewer but only if you install the Symbian stuff too16:53
lardmanwhich is slightly counter intuitive16:53
* lardman curses plugins and symbol lookup errors16:56
lardmanouch, nearly burned my toe on my Dell laptop charger brick16:59
lardmanthat seems quite warm16:59
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lardmanany ideas on what might cause a symbol lookup error in a qt plugin?17:03
RST38hextra extern "C"?17:04
lardmanno extern "C"s present17:05
RST38hmaybe there must be?17:05
* lardman reads the plugin writing docs again17:06
alteregolardman: it's normal, my Dell PSU block I can use to cook bacon ..17:06
lardmanalterego: lol, ok17:06
alteregoThey should make laptop PSUs switch mode, I wouldn't mind paying more for a more environmentally friendly option.17:07
lardmanI'm quite impressed, just got 850Mb/s download rate on my home broadband17:09
lardmanhmm, that must be Kb of course17:09
alteregoI doubt you could get that down an ethernet cable ;)17:10
lardmanyeah, talking of cooking bacon ;)17:10
alteregoBut if you have 1GB/s BB, wow :D17:11
lardmanyeah yeah, it's been a long weekend, mother in law visiting, brain adled, etc. :p17:12
lardmanany clues how I enable sftp-server under opensuse?17:15
SpeedEvilalterego: They all are switched mode.17:20
alteregoHmm, they don't have it enabled by default?17:20
SpeedEvilalterego: Since maybe 15 years ago at least17:20
alteregoSpeedEvil: mine doesn't feel like it, it weights a tonne and gets hotter than the sun.17:20
SpeedEvilHow many watts is it?17:21
SpeedEvilA 90W linear supply transformer will weigh around a kilo17:21
lardmannot sure re sftp, perhaps it's my firewall setup, will have to check17:21
SpeedEvilMaybe a little more17:21
SpeedEvilThen there is the heatsinks and stuff - ti's likely to end up at two17:22
alteregolardman: if you can ssh, it should work ..17:22
alteregoSpeedEvil: fair point17:22
lardmaninterestingly I can ssh into the N950 but not sftp17:22
alteregoYou're right, it must be switched mode ..17:22
alteregoI didn't think they got this hot though.17:22
SpeedEvilLaptop bricks get hot as they have small surface area17:22
alteregoI guess with 90W anything is gonna heat up.17:23
SpeedEvil90% efficiency still means there is 10W waste heat17:23
* lardman transfers leftover harmattan sdk files from laptop to PC to save downloading them again17:24
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lcukoh cock18:00
lcukbash: /usr/bin/pkg-config: No such file or directory18:00
lcukthe file exists, is a binary but returns that whenever called18:00
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lcukonly occured since installing harmattan scratchbox18:00
lcukany idea what is causing it?18:01
kimjulcuk, at host or within SB?18:02
kimjuif within SB, try to run on host, as root: /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core restart18:03
lcukkimju, it was within sb18:16
lcuki reinstalled the target18:16
lcukand its working again18:16
lcuksomething in the harmattan install mucked up the fremantle sb target18:16
lcuknot sure what, resolved by twiddling.  moved on..18:16
timophlcuk: does qmake work for you in harmattan scratchbox arm target?18:17
timophor does it give "no such file or directory" as it does for me18:18
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kimjutimoph, I had such problems earlier, restarting sbox fixed those.18:19
* timoph tries18:19
timophhah. it works!18:19
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lcuktimoph, that was same kind of error I was getting18:21
lcukbut different file18:21
lcuksince packages created in fremantle sb appear to work on harmattan18:21
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timophhas anyone filed a bug about that?18:23
lardmanhmm, trying to install harmattan sb ontop of fremantle version seems to have gone wrong18:24
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lcuki just went into sb-menu18:25
lcukand remade the target18:25
lcukand it all worked again i think18:25
lcukwell, I am using it18:25
lcukso its working lol18:25
lardmanso using the old version of sb?18:26
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lardman is what I'm getting18:27
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lcuklardman, oh i never got asked about scratchbox versions18:29
lcukdunno what that is, my problems were within scratchbox itself18:29
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lardmanbut did you already have Fremantle SB installed>?18:30
lcuki used the harmattan gui installer thing outside sb18:31
lardmanhmm, ok, perhaps something to do with the fact this is a 64bit os then?18:31
lcukand it correctly afaik installed everything18:31
lcukit was only when i tried to use the fremantle builder18:31
lcukit got knickers in a twist18:31
lardmansame here, but it's gone tits up half way through18:31
alteregoMine worked on 64 bit ubuntu 10.1018:31
lardmanalterego: oh right, mine is 64bit Ubuntu 11.04 iirc18:31
alteregoWell, I've not tried that unfortunately as 11.04 doesn't work with the N900 tethering.18:32
lardmanI might just start from scratch18:33
lardmanhmm, takes rather a long time to scan one of the camera images for barcodes18:37
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* SpeedEvil passes lardman a book entitled 'Programming the DSP on the OMAP processors'18:50
leinirgah... how do i reference an Item in the content area of a Sheet?!18:50
DocScrutinizerlcuk: f = open("/dev/ak89740", "rb")18:59
lcukwell my n950 wont bootup19:07
* lcuk mehs and tries something else19:07
macmaNi thought i heard that a few hours ago19:07
dm8tbrgnagnagna, device comes with python but no python-bluez19:13
Arkenoihow can i view dmesg on n950?19:14
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lcukhow do I make n950 reboot / power cycle19:20
lardmanSpeedEvil: too late, but thanks :)19:23
Troniclcuk: ssh root@localhost, reboot19:23
TronicThere is devel-su or some other (better) way for getting root access too.19:24
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lcukTronic, device is bricklike state19:26
lcukthe led will light when i insert usb19:27
lcukfor about 5 seconds max19:27
dm8tbrlcuk: hold down power for 10s19:27
lcukother than that, it is a very shiny pebble19:27
mikhaslcuk, use flasher and disable life guards19:27
dm8tbrlcuk: did it deep discharge?19:27
lcukwith usb in?19:27
lcukdm8tbr, it must have done19:27
lcukmikhas, eek19:27
* Arkenoi tried to forkbomb n950, amazingly it survived and properly killed offending processes when load became too high without affecting normal functions19:27
dm8tbrflasher -Owait-charging19:27
lcuki ran the one click flasher on windows19:27
dm8tbrlcuk: get the real flasher19:28
lcukdm8tbr, i will see what the win flasher says19:28
lcukafaik it checks battery charge itself19:28
lcuka mo19:28
dm8tbrlet's hope it has -Owait-charging in19:28
lcuk(faster than finding latest linux version for this moment19:29
lcukif this doesnt work i will update linux flasher19:29
Troniclcuk: Oh, so your device is equivalent to
dm8tbr - has the harmattan flasher AFAICS19:32
DocScrutinizerlcuk: sounds like kernel mismatch19:32
DocScrutinizerlcuk: that's what javispedro got when trying to install "custom" kernel (actually stock kernel built locally)19:32
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: say "thanks aegis" - blame whatever caused it - reflash19:33
lcuki cannot reflash since it is not registering anything over usb19:34
DocScrutinizerlcuk: you may need to use the --charge (OWTTE) parameter found in new flasher, as I gather you might have an empty battery and that's prohibitive for flashing, and a device that needs reflash won't charge, evidently19:34
lcukwith the 4 screws on the back, how does the coverplate come off19:34
* lcuk repeats19:35
lcuk"i cannot reflash since it is not registering anything over usb"19:35
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (cover) see migrating-wikipage19:35
lcukwindows and linux are not seeing any action19:35
DocScrutinizerthough it's shorter I share description that URL: pry off with fingernails starting at speaker in both directions. Will click and come off19:36
DocScrutinizeronce it popped open at speaker and, "hinge" around USB and off19:37
DocScrutinizerIt's really easy when you start at speaker and managed to pry your fingernail between the body and cover19:38
* lcuk offers it to tracy19:38
DocScrutinizer\o/ somebody THANKED on *#-ena packet page :-DD19:39
lcukthe back panel is all the area19:40
lcuknot just the inner rectangle19:41
lcukthe whole cover comes off as one19:41
DocScrutinizeryeah, same here :-P19:41
DocScrutinizerDownloads: 126533 Votes: 619:41
DocScrutinizerdang this rating system really panned out19:42
DocScrutinizermaybe a nit OT here19:42
DocScrutinizermaybe not, regarding we're about to crank up sth similr(?) for meego19:43
DocScrutinizerlcuk: back cover is a bit like CD jevelcases. It took me months until I understood you *can not* open them by prying open "in the middle" as that will bend the lid and make it latch even tighter to the base19:45
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lcukyeah i did it19:46
DocScrutinizer"starting at the corner" is a good strategy for a lot of situations/problems19:46
DocScrutinizerjigsaw puzzles, jevelcases, N950 backcovers, err...19:47
DocScrutinizersome carriers :-P19:47
DocScrutinizerooh - of course: opening the nasty tin cans of embedded device PCBA19:48
DocScrutinizerNokia's back cover design effectively tricked me into forgetting about this general strategy and waste ~1h trying to get off the center part only19:49
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kimjuheh. that is a bit misleading design.. I only spend few minutes before seeking out an already disaseembled unit for a clue :)19:51
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dm8tbrkimju: unfair advantage ;)19:54
lcukplugged into wallwart19:55
lcukand got as far as nokia water19:55
lcukso it was battery/power related19:55
lcukrather than aegis fud19:55
RST38hkhe khe khe19:59
DocScrutinizerwallwart (original with D+- short) always best bet to recover from flatbat19:59
RST38hWhat package contains MeegoTouch headers?19:59
infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.20:00
SpeedEvillcuk: :)20:01
RST38hok, found it20:01
Tronic you all suck and I am an idiot20:01
Tronic(just testing logging)20:02
kimjuhmm.. any naming succestions for re-packaged latest meego-terminal (as the original package can not be replaced in clean way) ?20:04
timophkimju: I have it as mg-terminal :)20:04
kimjuis that already in obs?20:04
kimjuor gitorious20:05
timophit is but there I have some problems with harmattan target20:05
* timoph shouldn't stop to think in the middle of sentence20:06
kimju"committed 25 min ago" .. no wonder I didn't see it earlier :D20:08
timophanyway I'm pretty sure that it won't build in obs20:09
kimju-        MApplicationService("", parent) {20:11
kimju+        MApplicationService("", parent) {20:11
kimjuhmm.. should that part be replaced too?20:11
timophshould but it works :)20:11
kimjuis there some documentation about such things?20:12
TronicWhy cannot the original be replaced?20:14
timophnot coming from the same source20:15
TronicThat limitation is going to be a head ache.20:15
timophhmmh. I wonder how c.obs signs the packages20:16
timophmeaning is it the same source when install from different home projects20:17
kimjuTronic, there are two "problems". first is that aegis won't allow replacing package installed(/available) from official source with package from other source without first forcibly uninstalling the original package. not end user friendly way.20:18
timophkimju: anyway, feel free to take over the package. My motivation was just to check the latest status of it20:18
kimjuTronic, then there is mp-harmattan-rm680-pr package that depends on specific versions of all the core packages. foo (= x.y.z), not bar (>= x.y.z)20:19
kimjutimoph, ok.. I've been experimenting with that locally for some time now, was thinking about pushing it to obs now too..20:21
timophI'll remove my version of it to avoid too many forks20:22
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antman8969the n950 browser is getting pretty bad, I can't even go to without it creashing20:46
djszapiport rekonq ;)20:47
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kimjuhmmh.. is there way to get obs do automatic versioning for deb packages as we do with rpm on n900-ce?20:47
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* lardman_ realised he has been a little silly20:49
djszapikimju: I would not like that, personally.20:50
lardman_accidentally sending messages to the DBus system bus while watching for messages on the session bus20:50
hiemanshudjszapi: rekonq is still webkit based, and writing a basic browser is easy :P20:51
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djszapihiemanshu: what is wrong about porting rekonq ?20:51
kimjudjszapi, it can be annoying in some cases, but right now I'd like to have it as an option :)20:52
djszapiiirc there has been some work in progress.20:52
hiemanshudjszapi: rekonq is still very new20:52
djszapihiemanshu: but works cross-platform ?20:52
hiemanshunot really mature, maybe fennec would make more sense20:53
djszapihiemanshu: Quite a few people use it on a daily basis.20:54
djszapi(also on windows)20:54
hiemanshudjszapi: I am not saying its bad, its just a little immature right now20:54
hiemanshudjszapi: also browser crashing is a very good chance its a webkit bug20:55
* djszapi likes the stereotypes, like webkit or aegis bug, nothing else !20:55
antman8969I've built fennec for harmattan but can't get it installed20:55
hiemanshudjszapi: I like webkit, so no, I am not stereotyping it20:56
antman8969 incase anyone wants to check it out...20:56
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djszapihiemanshu: Look, I have never used fennec on any desktop platform. I have been using rekonq for a while. It is proven, seriously. The functionality is there. Making a new Ui is well ... not that much work.20:57
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hiemanshudjszapi: fennec is the codename of Firefox for mobile, so no, you cannot use it on the desktop, you can use firefox, but to port rekonq, you'll also need to port kdelibs and such20:59
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djszapihiemanshu: what do you mean by "immature" ?21:01
hiemanshudjszapi: not fully developed?21:02
djszapiwhat do you mean by "not fully developed" ?21:02
hiemanshusure it can do the basic stuff, but it still needs a lot of work21:02
hiemanshudjszapi: there are quite a few nasty bug, missing features, etc21:03
djszapiif you could leave you abstraction behind the walls, and tell examples, that would help a lot...21:03
djszapi* your21:03
djszapiI personally prefer webkit for these things.21:04
RST38hmgedmin: here?21:05
djszapikimju: I do not see such an option what you asked for after browsing the page.21:07
mikhashmph, seems my debian packaging foo is insufficient - cannot get the app icon to show in app grid :-(21:07
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mikhasany ideas what to check?21:09
kimjumikhas, you have the package.desktop file in the package?21:09
kimjuand installed in correct place21:10
kimjulike ./usr/share/applications/mg-terminal.desktop21:11
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djszapino need for package.desktop21:11
djszapiit can be different to package as well :)21:11
djszapiit is more like application.desktop21:13
asys3anybody here can help me adding the repo - apt-get update complains about a missing Packages file. Is that repo not yet fully working?21:13
djszapideb ./21:14
mikhaskimju, I did21:15
mikhasbut apparently meegotouch home didnt like the old fremantle fields21:15
RST38hAnyone knows package name for the neq qtquick components???21:15
mikhasnow I removed some X-OSSO stuff, and the icon showed up21:16
mikhasman, so much time wasted …21:16
asys3i did that! ****  404  Not Found21:16
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mikhasasys3, RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/harmattan-dev.list21:18
mikhasdeb harmattan/sdk free non-free21:18
mikhasand have you checked that you enabled internet on the device?21:18
asys3yes, of course - the other repos of work well21:19
djszapimmm, the wiki page is buggy if mikhas's idea works :)21:20
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* mikhas shakes fist @ meegotouch home21:22
asys3mikhas: the sdk repo works, thanks21:23
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DocScrutinizermikhas: this seems to be /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst on my device21:35
DocScrutinizerwell, maybe I added it under that name, can't remember21:36
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: hell, I am still frightened to even do such a simple thing as ># mv /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.list21:40
DocScrutinizeras I don't feel familiar with checking if any file is under aegis control21:40
djszapiDocScrutinizer: I am pretty sure you know I am not from the SDK team ;-)21:41
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: I know. I'm just asking for some prodding and guidance on how to learn to deal with the issue21:42
DocScrutinizerI haven't managed yet to find out how to check if a file is "protected"21:43
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DocScrutinizerexcept by trying to edit/change it of course21:53
DocScrutinizerand that's a sickening situation when you got the mindset of a sysop21:54
djszapiDocScrutinizer: we will not make a tool for it, it should be plain documentation for the public.21:55
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DocScrutinizerI thought there *is* some tool for it, whether it's stat <filename>, or ls --wonderoption <filename>, or random-aegis-binary --list-tokens <filename>. I'm just wondering *which* tool it might be, and what exactly it looks like when a protected file gets diagnosed. I have a hard time to beleive there is NO tool at all, as you suggest by "we won't make a tool for it"21:58
djszapiI highly doubt we make, it is so simple.21:59
DocScrutinizererr sorry?21:59
DocScrutinizeryou completely lost me22:00
rm_youdjszapi: hey22:02
rm_youdjszapi: does it look like PackRat is picking up the repos from the wiki now?22:03
djszapirm_you: nope, it still ignores the "deb harmattan/sdk free non-free" line.22:04
rm_youit doesn't fit the regex22:04
rm_youi DID put the regex there :P22:04
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: simply put (as simple as I can): if I ask "is it save to do a ># mv /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.list ?", then the answer can NOT be "try it and when aegis bricks your device then you know it wasn't safe" - there has to be a better answer that doesn't include risking to brick22:05
djszapiregexp is from the darkside =p22:05
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: but I told  you it more times. Please make notes on some community page about things we are discussing next time.22:07
DocScrutinizerI really don't get what you are trying to tell me. Is it you don't know either and there is simply no method to work on a aegis system without permanently risking to brick it? I think I give up on getting any decent answer on this22:09
DocScrutinizerI don't know how to make notes about things that are or are not discussed any "next time" (of whatever) in the future. I got no crystal ball22:11
DocScrutinizerand I have no idea who's "we" or what's "next time" event22:12
rm_youdjszapi: also i think that line is wrong anyway22:12
djszapirm_you: actually that worked for more people above22:12
mikhasdjszapi, dark side you say?
rm_younote there's "harmattan-beta" but not "harmattan-sdk" or "harmattan/sdk"22:13
djszapi00:18 < mikhas> deb harmattan/sdk free non-free22:13
djszapi00:23 < asys3> mikhas: the sdk repo works, thanks22:13
rm_youthe sdk repos require auth22:14
rm_youwhich i can't do22:14
rm_younot gonna show up22:14
rm_youexists but requires auth22:14
djszapiDocScrutinizer: -> I told you twice in this small conversation22:15
djszapiyou should seriously document what me and others are saying, if it is not trivial..22:15
djszapiI thought I do not need to mention it.22:15
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: this is gibberish to me - unless you say I mustn't edit any file in /etc/22:16
vandenoeveri seems one needs to make a youtube video to be noticed by meegoexperts ...22:16
DocScrutinizerwhich obviously isn't the case and also would be really bad22:17
djszapiDocScrutinizer: I told you more times what is not integrity protected in the subfolders as well22:17
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djszapiwhat is the third-party interface for upstart scripts and so forth.22:17
DocScrutinizererr uhuh, so I mustn't create /etc/myrandomdir22:18
djszapiplease document these things otherwise it will be asked again and again and again, if it is not trivial.22:18
DocScrutinizerwho? ME?22:18
DocScrutinizerI got NFC about those things! how could I possibly document anything else than my lack of knowledge about it?22:19
djszapiLook, there are three ways of handling the missing documentation, if any: 1) Report it to the SDK team, again /not/ me. 2) You keep documenting what people are experiencing here on a community page 3) Keep complaining.22:20
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: see, if you would explain *how* you attained your knowledge about those facts, I could learn and help myself out of any questionable sitation regarding aegis file protection. Stating "/etc/ is protected" doesn't help much22:21
DocScrutinizerafter learning that, I'm happily going to document it on wiki22:22
djszapiforget it..22:22
mikhas#harmattan becoming another #maemo :-)22:22
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DocScrutinizerI'm going to eventually document on wiki: "aegis is protecting arbitrary files from editing/deleting/renaming/chmod. You have no means to know if a file is protected that way. Touching such a file will possibly result in bricking and need for a reflash of complete system. That's the situation and you either deal with it or forget about harmattan, as nobody is going to do anything about it to fix this permanent threat"22:28
DocScrutinizeror maybe NOT22:28
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DocScrutinizerI got other means to get my thrills, than dealing with the question "will it brick?"22:30
alteregoHrm, I'd really like a good app to create timetables.22:47
alteregoI think I'm gonna sketch one out to do in qml.22:47
djszapiI would like to have an offline dictionary, like qmlstardict :p22:48
alteregoI suppose I'd just like a more timetable friendly UI for the calendar.22:49
djszapior kde pim :)22:49
alteregoSo a seperate app that integrates into the calendar would be cool.22:49
* dm8tbr wonders how much 'fun' he is into if he tries to package/build python-bluez22:51
alteregoI don't really care about kde pim :P22:51
kimjudm8tbr, you could forget the python and create bindings for some sane language, perl for example..22:59
dm8tbrkimju: I have some ready python code I'd like to try for proof of concept23:00
kimjudm8tbr, oh, the mistake has been made earlier.. I see.. :)23:01
dm8tbrI usually don't go near python23:01
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dm8tbrif someone shows me how I bind to a bluetooth socket thingy with type SPP in QML or Qt I might be able to verify it too23:02
dm8tbrbut I would like to start with something that is known to be working before I put work into it23:03
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rm_youexcuse me for possibly missing some stuff while i got disconnected, but23:21
rm_you<kimju> dm8tbr, you could forget the python and create bindings for some sane language, perl for example..23:21
rm_yousince when is Perl the sane language compared to Python? >_>23:22
RST38hAh! Perl vs Python!23:23
RST38hTO THE DEATH!!!23:23
alteregoThat is a battle that will never end.23:23
alteregoIf PERL could die it would have done it a long time ago ..23:23
rm_youlol, well kimju was obviously trolling, can't help but troll back :P23:23
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kimjuoh, I was, was I? ;)23:24
alteregoBesides, I'd prefer something a bit nicer than Python, tbh23:24
kimjuI actually do like perl and dislike python, but will write code on either if I have to..23:25
rm_youmaintaining perl apps (including PackRat) has nearly driven me to the brink of insanity23:26
rm_youwhich is why your note of Perl as a "sane" language was particularly entertaining :P23:26
alteregoMeh, PERL is pretty messy, and Python just isn't built right23:27
RST38hPackRat is only partially Perl23:27
rm_youyeah just the crawler23:27
kimjuall programming languages suck.23:27
rm_youthe php i can handle23:27
RST38hItis mostly PHP though, and a lot of people hate PHP23:27
alteregoPHP is sh*t too :D23:27
rm_youRST38h: did you write part of packrat?23:27
rm_youwait, do i have a name disconnect here23:28
RST38hfor reasons I fail to understand, ranging from "php is messy"to "php is russian conspiracy"23:28
rm_youI thought FMS wrote it23:28
* RST38h looks at rm_you incredulously23:28
rm_youare you FMS?!23:28
RST38hAnd I am...?23:28
rm_youi never made that connection :P23:28
rm_youi remember meeting you at CBase i think23:29
RST38heven after I gave you the source code on irc and asked to put it to a good server? =)23:29
rm_youlol well, that was a long time ago23:29
kimjuRST38h, my take is that php is hated because there has been too many "my first program"-type programs written in php released into the wild.. and then sysadmins have to Deal With Them..23:29
rm_youRST38h: any interest in fixing it to work with harmattan now?23:30
rm_youyou'd cry if you saw the crawler in its current state23:30
rm_youthe hacks i had to do to get it working...23:30
RST38hrm_you: see? you broke it! =)23:32
RST38hrm_you: yes, I can try fixing it up23:32
RST38hrm_you: email me the current source code23:32
rm_youyou prolly just want to ignore my changes and start from your clean source honestly23:32
RST38hrm_you: can't say right nnow - I usually keep the code if it is not too badly broken23:33
rm_youlike i seriously just disabled 75% of the generic stuff23:33
TronicMeanwhile the REAL CODERS are fighting Perl (Ruby) vs. Python, all the web services get implemented in PHP.23:33
mikhasalterego, you sound as if you want Vala.23:33
rm_youand hardcoded things here and there in several functions23:33
rm_youI like PHP and Python about equally :P23:33
alteregomikhas: Heh, Vala isn't dynamic enough for me :P23:33
rm_youI was tempted to rewrite the whole crawler thing in python23:34
alteregoIf we're talking about dynamic languages.23:34
mikhasalterego, tried Smalltalk?23:34
mikhasvery clean because its syntax is so minimal23:34
alteregoI have tried Smalltalk, I do like it23:34
TronicSpeaking of webapps, you can get most done in least time with C++ but it lacks the rapid turnaround.23:34
alteregoI also mostly like Ruby, which I tend to use when I need to do certain things.23:34
mikhasand instead of this Python "Everything is an object" lie, everything but variables *are* objects in ST :-)23:35
alteregomikhas: sure, like Ruby :)23:35
alteregoIt's the pure object orientation I like about small talk and ruby23:35
alteregoPythons' idea of OO is somewhat retarded.23:36
mikhasit just doesnt feel right, does it?23:36
rm_youI wrote a few things in both ruby and python to compare the languages a while back, and i couldn't even tell the difference between the two languages besides minor differences in the keywords / punctuation23:36
alteregoNo, not really. Though I don't mind using it, it's just not OO to me.23:36
mikhasrm_you, the fun comes with advanced OO techniques23:37
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alteregorm_you: then you didn't really get into the fun stuff ;)23:37
rm_youdid basic inheritence and polymorphism...23:37
alteregoYeah, the cool stuff is metaprogramming, mixins, introspection and all that jazz :)23:37
mikhaseww, he said inheritance!23:38
rm_youintrospection seems cool23:38
mikhasalterego, traits23:38
rm_younever implemented it23:38
alteregomikhas: duck typing :P23:38
mikhasor a DB layer that creates methods on the fly23:38
rm_youfactory methods?23:38
alteregoI use ActiveRecord quite a  bit in Ruby, it's a really good ORM23:38
alteregoVery fun23:38
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mikhas(depending on the messages the object receives, it persists and *creates* the DB structure for you in the back)23:39
alteregomikhas: have you used the ActiveRDF stuff?23:39
alteregoI did some really fun stuff with Ruby and RDF ..23:40
alteregoI settled on Redland though in the end.23:40
rm_youRST38h: lol something about your website makes my monitor generate horrible noises23:40
rm_youthe colors23:40
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alteregoAnyhow, time to go :) bbl23:41
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