IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-07-30

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* Arkenoi wonders if there will be DtG for harmattan00:18
* SpeedEvil blanks on the acronym00:19
ArkenoiDocuments to Go00:19
DocScrutinizerTLA \o/00:19
ArkenoiOOo with easydebian does not really look like viable option.. especially with capacitive touchscreen..00:20
DocScrutinizerTLA \o/00:20
divansimple brightness script :) for harmattan is in /usr/share/clean-device/keep-display-on.sh00:20
DocScrutinizerdivan: :-))00:21
Mekthere is the documents viewer app already of course, but that doesn't have editing capabilities yet00:23
DocScrutinizerdivan: ouch, another weird while true loop00:23
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DocScrutinizerwhile true; ... do [ -e ${CUD_FINISHED} ] && break; done00:24
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DocScrutinizers/... do/do .../.00:24
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divanDocScrutinizer, any idea what is cud?00:25
DocScrutinizerwhatever THAT means then00:26
Arkenoimek: which one?00:26
MekArkenoi: the "Documents" icon00:26
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Arkenoiah. should try. it does not act as mime handler for ms office documents downloaded from web at least00:27
Mekit is supposed to...00:27
divanDocScrutinizer, ah.. so  this script is intended to be used within cleanup tool, and it simply waits until cud is finished00:27
Mekif it doesn't, that is a bug :)00:27
divanthough I agree the bash code is a bit weird00:28
DocScrutinizerdivan: looks like, and this tools sets a FILE FLAG ( ! :-o ) called /tmp/cud_finished00:28
divanDocScrutinizer, exctly00:29
* DocScrutinizer prefers -SIGINT or -SIGUSR100:29
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DocScrutinizerbut then they'd need to use "trap" and this isn't a very popular command in shell scripting, dunno why00:30
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mgedminhard to remember the syntax etc.00:31
mgedminI break out in shivers every time I think I may need to use trap in a shell scripy00:31
DocScrutinizertrap my-cleanup-function EXIT00:32
DocScrutinizerextremely convenient00:32
mgedminthanks to aegis, I'm learning to use aliases and functions again00:33
DocScrutinizera trap special-handling-function ERROR is also cool00:33
mgedmin(I had a habit of creating small shell scripts in ~/bin/)00:33
DocScrutinizerI'm still doing this ;-)00:34
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DocScrutinizerthanks aegis I added ~/aliases and a line >> source $HOME/aliases to .bashrc00:35
Arkenoibtw all n9 demo videos include angry birds.. i wonder where can i get it :-)00:35
DocScrutinizerfirst line in ~/aliases: alias ass='alias -p >/root/aliases'00:35
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DocScrutinizerI used do have >> alias as=alias00:36
DocScrutinizerbut I thought that's a bit silly now00:37
DocScrutinizerused it back in my Amiga1000 days00:37
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: in the pub next block of Roxio00:38
DocScrutinizerin the night at 11:00, when you are paying all the drinks00:39
DocScrutinizerAIUI angry birds goes AR and MORPG now - or sth like that00:40
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djszapilbt ping00:44
djszapi -> it is available here, but c-obs complains about that it cannot be found for cmake..00:44
djszapilbt: also available here:
qgilVenemo_: you can see my "poorman's local OBS" system in action at  :)00:49
povbotBug 12315: Placeholder to upload UI source and packages00:49
MeeGoBotBug nor, Medium, ---, alexey.kuznetsov, RELE FIXED, libmeegochat should be ported to telepathy-qt4 0.5.x00:49
djszapirm_you rm_work packrat does not pick up the repositories from the wikipage.00:50
DocScrutinizermgedmin: actually there's a flaw in "my" version, it first waits 15s then switches on screen00:52
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)00:57
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* DocScrutinizer wonders when and why the darn bot left the channel00:59
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DocScrutinizeror rather why it didn't autojoin after the connectivity/netsplit issue01:01
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rm_workdjszapi: it definitely does :P01:46
rm_workdjszapi: it just only checks once/day when i run it01:46
rm_worki have to leave to head home right now but I will be back in around an hour i think01:47
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GeneralAntillesWhat the hell does #FF mean on Twitter?02:04
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vgrade1GeneralAntilles, I learned this today, Welcome to Twitter ;) #FF = FollowFriday, the list includes people worth following on Twitter (for #MeeGo).02:09
GeneralAntillesvgrade1, yeah, just Googled it.02:09
vgrade1i was getting a few tweets which were just a list of nicks02:10
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vgrade1must have missed a lesson02:10
vgrade1on my TODO list for next week02:11
GeneralAntillesDamn internet memes.02:11
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ieatlintbehold the awesomeness of twitter:!/shoesareawesome/status/8174333048822169702:12
ieatlintthe bug will be solved soon, so be sure to have some fun spoofing some urls until then02:13
* SpeedEvil sighs.02:14
SpeedEvilI wonder if I should get a non-anonymous twitter02:14
GeneralAntillesAnybody find a .deb for Firefox yet?02:16
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I'll follow you.02:17
* SpeedEvil sighs.02:18
SpeedEvilI can see the need for at least 4 twitter accounts.02:18
DocScrutinizerWTF is twitter?02:19
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, some new thing the damn kids are using.02:19
DocScrutinizerIRC for kids?02:19
GeneralAntillesMore or less.02:20
DocScrutinizercool stuff man!02:20
GeneralAntillesSlightly more narcissistic.02:20
SpeedEvilTwitter is useful.02:22
SpeedEvilIt's a multiplatform messaging system that works for even dumbphones.02:22
SpeedEvilThat lets you coordinate between people, make announcements and stuff, when they may have a computer, a smartphone, or a dumbphone.02:23
SpeedEvilUsed for 'Look at my shoes!' - it's perhaps less useful.02:23
SpeedEvilIt's all in the people you follow.02:23
* SpeedEvil is following!/SpaceXer and!/TheRealBuzz02:24
* GeneralAntilles tries to track down SpeedEvil.02:33
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I am one of the persons that can not use twitter, as this crap doesn't even render in my browser02:40
DocScrutinizerand basically I'm happy everybody is using twitter so I don't have to02:42
DocScrutinizerup to date I haven't missed anything it seems02:43
DocScrutinizerI didn't miss ?02:44
SpeedEvilwhich browser?02:44
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GeneralAntillesDamn N950 keeps unlocking in my pocket.05:02
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antman8969so I've scratched my n950 case and it turns out the phone isn't colored throughout.... any one know of any repair kits?05:36
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Ken-YoungWhat is the default user06:16
Ken-YoungOops - sorry, wrong window.06:17
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Ken-YoungA few days ago, I was told on this channel that to develop for the N950/N9 one should use QML.   But the Nokia documentation seems to assume one will use Qt/C++ .   What is the most standard way to write apps for Harmattan targets?06:37
MohammadAGwhatever you want06:41
MohammadAGQML with Qt Components is the most portable way06:41
MohammadAGMTF is the C++ way06:41
Ken-YoungWhat does MTF stand for?06:41
MohammadAGMeeGo Touch Framework06:42
GeneralAntillesMTF is deprecated.06:44
GeneralAntillesQt Components is the way to go.06:44
ScifigMohammadAG, Are you going to port Open Media Player to harmattan?06:45
MohammadAGit uses mafw anyway06:46
Scifigcool. You will use qmafw right? or the Glib based mafw?06:47
ScifigI am trying to understand mafw concepts. Open media player is a very good reference for that.06:48
MohammadAGno idea if I'll make a switch06:49
MohammadAGit needs a lot of coding06:49
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ScifigYea mafw reminds me of telepathy :(06:49
MohammadAGit's actually way easier :p06:50
ScifigI wish :(  . I posted a question on maemo-devel? Can you take a look when you get a chance?
MohammadAGthat's the cleanest way06:53
MohammadAGthough I'd use qmafw / libmafw instead of listening to the (dbus) signals myself06:54
ScifigI want to move away from dbus signals too. And I didn't have much success on running a daemon with aegis either.06:55
ScifigFrom my questions u'd realize how clueless I'm with mafw.06:55
MohammadAGYeah it's not easy to get started with06:56
MohammadAGbut once you get the concepts, it's a bit fun06:56
MohammadAGI'll help out when I get my N950 if you want06:56
ScifigThanks a lot. I knew it would take time, so for the initial versions I am using dbus signals.06:57
ScifigWill contact you again later.06:58
ScifigWhats the status on your order anyway?06:58
MohammadAGIt's in Germany06:58
MohammadAGLeipzig (if I didn't misspell that)06:58
ScifigShould get it by monday then?06:58
MohammadAGhopefully yeah06:58
MohammadAGor Sunday06:58
MohammadAG(that's a workday in Israel)06:59
Scifigcool. Mine was stuck in Midlands, UK for a day for no apparent reason.06:59
MohammadAGcustoms maybe?07:00
ScifigNo it was just in transit. I am in US. It missed a flight or something :)07:00
MohammadAGAh, US07:01
MohammadAGhow long did it take to get there?07:01
ScifigLeft Finland 14th and delivered on 18th here07:03
Ken-YoungIf I am developing for Harmattan, should I be concerned about the fact that the "Device menu of the "Qt Simulator Control" in the Qt SDK does not list Harmattan as a target?   Must Harmattan compatibility be added to Qt Creator somehow after that SDK is downloaded?07:04
ScifigKen-Young, From Qt creator follow Help -> Start Updater --> Package Manager --> Experimental . Enable Harmattan07:06
Ken-YoungScifig, Thanks you.07:06
infobotKen-Young meant: Scifig, Thank you.07:07
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RST38hMeego graphics system destroyed09:01
RST38hUsing the meego graphics system09:01
RST38hSegmentation fault (core dumped)09:01
RST38hWTF am I doing wrong?09:01
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rm_you<RST38h> Meego graphics system destroyed09:15
rm_youthat's normal09:15
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RST38hrm_you: What is abnormal is that after going out and back into application I am getting a core dump somewhere in xlib09:32
RST38hrm_you: With broken stack. And I am not doing anything special, just creating a QApplication and QMainWindow and that's all09:33
RST38hrm_you: Do you by any chance know where I can get a QT HelloWorld for Harmattan that I can run as a reference?09:33
RST38h(also, the "invoker" things fails to start my binary, no idea why)09:34
rm_youRST38h: well there is one09:34
rm_youRST38h: it was like, built in to QtCreator09:35
rm_youit had a button and if you click the button it makes a label visible that says Hello :P09:35
RST38hrm_you: Can I have the source?09:36
RST38hrm_you: QtCreator did not work for me, deleted it09:36
rm_youare you in QtCreator?09:36
rm_youlet me see if i can find it09:36
RST38hAlso, where should the icons go???09:44
RST38hnot into hicolor, right?09:45
rm_youno idea09:48
RST38hwhat a mess...09:48
ArkenoiMfE works like charm. That suprised me much, I was completely sure that maemo bugs "WONTFIX util Harmattan" were just euphemism for "when the Hell freezes out"09:52
RST38hrm_you: DCC does not seem to work either =(09:53
RST38hNo, it worked after all!!!09:55
RST38hThanks, matching it against my code now09:56
RST38hArkenoi: YOu are not using a publicly available device, so essentially it is not fixed yet,even in harmattan (that anyone can use)09:57
ArkenoiRST38h: n9 is to be released to general public relatively soon09:58
Arkenoithough email client without hardware keyboard sucks09:59
* Arkenoi wonders if there will me more n950 manufactured and distributed after n9 release, the demand is enormous10:00
* Stskeeps is considering a n9 as he actually finds the OSK quite nice10:01
ArkenoiI fully understand now why n950 is not public, but most concerns will no longer be valid once harmattan will become "consumer grade"10:01
* RST38h glares at Stskeeps hungrily10:01
Stskeepsmorn rst38h10:01
RST38hArkenoi: opening/closing thing is somewhat flimsy, I can totally see consumers breaking it =)10:02
RST38hStskeeps: willing to help a little bit?10:02
antman8969I actually never use the keyboard (aside from the terminal). I think the onscreen is quite nice10:02
StskeepsRST38h: with what? :P10:03
RST38hStskeeps: Harmattan development.10:03
* Stskeeps doesn't really know much about harmattan10:03
RST38hOr Qt development, is this is more politically correct thing to say10:03
Stskeepsor qt, for that matter :P10:03
* Stskeeps is more of a low level person10:03
ArkenoiRST38h: I am going to the city in a few hours, will pick up dx crap at the post office and probably have a hour or two relatively free before 6pm10:03
antman8969with the apis we have... it's harmattan development ;)10:03
RST38hBut you must have encountered something like this10:03
ArkenoiRST38h: It does not look more fragile than e710:04
RST38hArkenoi: babysitting. this evening or tomorrow though.10:04
RST38hUnless of course family plans change. Besides, I am trying to make my stuff run under Harmattan at the moment, made a promise to have something ready in 2 weeks10:05
StskeepsRST38h: -graphicssystem raster helps anything?10:05
Stskeeps(yes, the qt library clones 'raster' and makes him do all the manual work)10:05
RST38hStskeeps: nah, coredumps on startup with it10:05
RST38hStskeeps: without it, coredumps when I go back into the app10:05
StskeepsMTF app?10:06
RST38hStskeeps: Plain Qt10:06
RST38hStskeeps: QApplication + QMainWindow + some controls, nothing more10:06
RST38hYou can remove controls, still crashes10:06
StskeepsRST38h: -style plastique10:07
ArkenoiBMO web certificate has expired10:07
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RST38hStskeeps: segmentation fault.10:14
RST38hStskeeps: when going back into the app10:14
StskeepsRST38h: hrm, ok10:15
StskeepsRST38h: do you use a gl context?10:15
RST38hAlthough Qt seems to use it10:16
RST38hStskeeps: When I go back to the apps menu,it says "...destroyed". When I go back into the app it says "...created", shows the app screen shortly, then dies10:18
RST38hgdb shows a crash inside Xlib, but the stack is broken, so no full stack trace10:18
StskeepsRST38h: that really should go away with -graphicssystem raster..10:19
* Stskeeps doesn't know, but has really really weird MGS behaviour10:19
Stskeepstry -graphicssystem native10:19
RST38hDoes not crash now10:20
RST38hSeems to work.10:20
RST38hWhat is the difference?10:20
Stskeepsheck if i know :P10:20
Stskeepsi just recalled it from a problem we had on N90010:20
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RST38hStskeeps: BTW, current build we have got on N950s does not seem to look for icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor10:33
RST38hStskeeps: Had to put the complete path to the icon into .desktop10:33
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Ken-YoungWhen I try to run a Harmattan project in Qt Creator, I get the message "Deployment failed: Qemu was not running.   It has now been started up for you, but it will take a bit of time until it is ready."    But Qemu has not been started.   Must I start Qemu manually before trying to run something in the SDK?   Must I download Qemu separately, or does it come with the SDK?10:37
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RST38hStskeeps: Suppose, I do not want to do QAppklication.exec(). What do I do instead?10:41
RST38h(btw, just enabled my code, that polls events periodically rather than calling exec() and the app coredumps even with "native")10:42
wazdhi all10:42
wazdRST38h: woo :)10:42
RST38hheya wazd10:42
wazdRST38h: seen my icons for your emus?10:43
RST38hwazd: not yet, where? =)10:44
* RST38h hasn'tseen his emus run on n950 yet - working on it10:44
StskeepsRST38h: don't know10:45
wazdRST38h: NES: ; GB: ;10:47
wazdStskeeps: o/10:47
RST38hwazd: ! =)10:49
Stskeepsmorn wazd10:50
dm8tbryaay, I start to understand how things fit together WRT accounts architecture. Now let's hope I can beat harmattan into submission to create generic XMPP (jabber) accounts10:51
RST38hwazd: buttons were kinda darker on the original GB - (also notice the labels)10:52
Stskeepsdm8tbr: isn't the accounts ui stuff oss btw?10:53
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dm8tbrStskeeps: dug it out in the morning when I remembered that attila mentioned sthg along the lines10:54
Stskeepsthought it was10:54
RST38hwazd: actually, the only concern I would have is that most users will not recognize the system by two fire buttons (except when it is SNES that had really definitive buttons)10:54
wazd"Error detected in index $130 for file 14164" - is it as bad as it sounds? :)10:54
Stskeepswazd: yay ntfs10:54
wazdStskeeps: any non-barbaric way to fix this? :)10:57
Stskeepswazd: well, chkdsk is probably your only hope :P10:57
Stskeepswazd: i would personally rescue any data i needed with a linux livecd :P10:58
RST38hwazd: Save all the data NOW11:00
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RST38hStskeeps: what -march etc flags do you suggest for N950?11:02
* RST38h just compiled without -O2 and the program does not crash11:02
StskeepsRST38h: similar as to n90011:06
Stskeepswell, float-abi=hard, not =softfp11:06
RST38h-mfloat-abi=hardfp ?11:07
Stskeepspass float values in vfp registers instead of integer registers11:07
wazdRST38h: oh man, drive is collapsing?11:10
RST38hOk, I have foundthat it always crashes with -O311:10
RST38hTrying with -O211:10
RST38hwazd: Possibly, willing to bet that it does not?11:11
RST38hAnyone with QtSDK willing to check what gcc flags it is using to compile apps?11:13
RST38hOk, -O2 definitely makes things crash.11:15
wazdRST38h: hmm, I guess no :D11:21
wazdCan I suggest that terminal icon instead of current one? :)
thpwazd: hey ho :)11:29
StskeepsRST38h: no idea, just use the toolchains there11:30
Stskeepsit's EABI11:30
RST38hDo I need thumb-interwork?11:30
wazdthp: heyhey :)11:31
wazdthp: bad day for you, my laptop's harddrive is kinda broken so all the stuff I've done is temporary unavailable :(11:32
wazdthp: have you checked the shot I've sent you? :)11:32
RST38hStskeeps: this is when compiled with -O211:33
StskeepsRST38h: install -dbg packages11:36
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RST38hfor what libs?11:38
Stskeepswell, do some guesswork, qt11:40
thpwazd: yes, looking good11:44
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wazdcrap, I have only one sata power cable in my PC :(11:47
thpwazd: btw, i've dug up some mock-ups that you have done previously, i think i might do a "mock-up special" posting at some point (except if you want to do it)11:50
wazdthp: hehe, that would be cool :)11:53
wazdthp: I have some latest shots backed up on the phone so it won't be hard to recreate them anyway11:54
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RST38hA'OK I have got it to run with -O212:13
griAnyone using the QtSDK here? Can you see the contents of a QString in the debugger? :)12:20
gri(on the device of course)12:20
RST38hOk, reorganizing the qt code completely made it kinda work12:29
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* Arkenoi tries to figure out how to extract email attach in the default mail client12:32
Arkenoiit is just a question of precise tap12:32
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RST38hOk. Any Qt gurus still alive? (not asleep?)13:01
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alteregoRST38h: wassup?13:13
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RST38halterego: here? =)13:41
RST38halterego: I cannot make application quit - it does not call closeEvent()!13:46
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* gri curses QML Loader item!13:55
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infobotlardman: please check, cheers DocScr14:03
lardmaninfobot: I've already read that message14:04
lardmanwill wonders never cease, upgraded to Natty Narwhal, resulting in the usual lack of any monitor support14:04
DocScrutinizersorry lardman14:04
wazddpkg: status database area is locked by another process  <- is it solvable? :)14:04
lardmanbut in working out how to fix it, I've managed to enable my third monitor finally, only been a year or so since I was last able to use that under Linux :)14:05
DocScrutinizer~onjoin lardman -14:05
infobotok, DocScrutinizer14:05
lardmanhey Doc14:05
wazdhey lardman :)14:05
lardmanhi wazd14:05
* lardman grumbles at the waste of 1.5h fixing that problem14:06
lardmanthough I guess the result is better than the original14:06
lardmanfor reference, zaphodhead for radeon multihead and disable composite for nvidia with xinerama14:07
lardmanare there any instructions for installing the Fremantle rootfs/compiler with the Harmattan version of SB?14:08
lardmanalso, is it just me or does the N950 not support sftp connections?14:10
lardmanI guess some file needs editing to allow them?14:10
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: >>Departed Facility in BERGAMO - ITALY<< next stop IL14:11
lardmangrumble grumble, why are there so many ways to implement DBus functionality under Qt14:17
lcuklardman, same as many things, different developers each needing the code and having to make implementations14:19
lardmanlcuk: well it's more the way that one can use cryptic Q_SIGNALs which seem to just work, but then there are other instructions to use QDbusAdaptors (or something like that)14:20
lardmanQDBusAbstractAdaptor that should be14:20
lcuklardman, dbus has multiple api levels14:21
lardmantrue, in which case better docs would be nice14:23
lardmanthe Q_SIGNALs trick isn't mentioned in the main docs, just on the Nokia developer site14:23
RST38hQt uses 26-bit key codes14:24
lardmanfull support for all Chinese characters?14:25
RST38hlardman: more like someone's idea of using those bits for his private data14:26
RST38hbased on the enum anyway14:26
RST38hlardman: better tell me, how can it happen that I draw into the QWidget with a painter, on the proper paintevent() and all I see is a black square? After I go into task manager and back into the app, it shows the image14:27
lardmansome double buffering effect14:28
RST38htoo deep for me14:30
RST38hit is probably "you are not calling some obscure Qt function to let Qt know you updated a widget"14:31
lardmanYou can disable double buffering somehow14:32
* lardman can't remember how off hand mind you14:32
* RST38h asks the world mind(tm)14:33
RST38hBTW, dear god, sleeping in the sea, please rise and punish the evil bastard who came up with these island keyboards14:34
lardmanautoFillBackground set to false iirc14:35
RST38haha thanks14:36
lardmansetAutoFillBackground(false) that would be of course14:36
lardmandon't thank me yet, may well not do anything useful ;)14:36
lcukRST38h, but but but but but14:36
lcukyou should be directly using qml!14:36
lardmanhmm, my QFileSystemWatcher appears to not be working14:36
lardmanlcuk: pah!14:36
lcukQML pixels would be neat14:37
lcuklike the excel spreadsheet animation :D14:37
lardmanI've not seen that14:39
RST38hlardman: didn't help14:46
lcukRST38h, make a tiny hello world and draw in qpainter and see if that still has same problem14:50
lardmanRST38h: oh, sorry15:00
lardmanwhat about widget->setAttribute(Qt::WA_PaintOnScreen);15:01
RST38hlardman: just tried this one too15:03
RST38hlardman: did nothelp15:03
lardmansetAttribute(Qt::WA_NoSystemBackground); ?15:05
lardmanor have we already done that one?15:05
lardmanfar too many attributes!15:05
* lardman wonders if his QFileSystemWatcher problem is caused by him watching the parent dir and not receiving events generated in the child dirs15:06
lcuk    setAttribute(Qt::WA_OpaquePaintEvent,true);15:06
* lcuk has that on qt wall calendar15:07
lcuklardman, afaik sub folders are not tracked15:07
lcukat least from historical15:07
lcuki wanted to use inotify on base folder for everything inside15:08
lcukbut afaik I had to add one to each specific folder15:08
lcuklest the inotify would generate huge amounts of data if started on /15:08
lcuklardman, can you subscribe to tracker events?15:10
wazdSummeli: ping? :)15:12
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lardmanlcuk: yeah I could do, and equally there's a DBus event broadcast by the camera app15:23
lardmanI'd prefer the file tracker though as it's simple(r than Tracker, I assume) and more generic than hooking up to the specific message from the current camera app15:25
lardmanhmm, I tell a lie, I've got a QFileSystemWatcher path set to /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM and that's where the files are created too15:26
lardmanso it's not a case of subdirs messing things up15:26
lcuklardman, hm then15:26
lardmanI wonder if I've correctly understood how it works...?15:28
lardmanI'm adding a directory in the expectation that I will receive events if files and/or directories within that directory are modified15:28
lardmanbut perhaps you have to explicitly add a directory/file path for a given file?15:28
lardmanthat seems quite un-useful though15:28
lardmanhmm rubbish, direcoryChanged() is emitted for any changes to files in a dir, filechanged() is only emitted if you explicitly specify the file15:38
lardmanthis means I need to store the dir contents state internally15:38
lcukthats odd15:39
lcuki gather internally the filesystemwatcher will use inotify on linux15:39
lcukwhich gives the name of the file beingmodified15:39
lcukperhaps driver error :P15:39
lardmanno, I've seen some other comments to this effect, but apparently it's still not actually very useful15:40
divanHow much time Standard Flasher should erase? It's already 10 minutes passed since 'Erasing, this may take a while.' appers...15:40
infobotdivan meant: How much time Standard Flasher should erase? It's already 10 minutes passed since 'Erasing, this may take a while.' appeared...15:41
lardmannever tried it, sorry15:41
lcukdivan, 10 minutes is fine15:41
divanlast time I've reflashed with Quick Erase Flasher and it took seconds15:41
dm8tbrdivan: whole process 40min or so15:41
divanlcuk, oh, thanks15:41
lcuki used windows flasher and it took ~20 minutesish15:41
divanHm, what's the point of this erasing? What's namely is being erased and what for?15:42
lcukdivan, idk15:43
lcukbut since the process is one click reflash its ont really for debugging15:43
hiemanshudivan: NOLO15:43
lardmanI wonder if I can have a list of lists?15:44
lcukalso note the reflash is whole device15:44
hiemanshuthats what the website says atleast15:44
lcukall photos and stuff too15:44
lardmanQList<QList<QFileInfo>> ?15:44
hiemanshulardman: Array?15:44
divanlcuk, ok, I understand this, but why not simply overwrite it?15:45
lcukdivan, ask Nokia15:45
lardmanhiemanshu: I'm embracing the Qt way15:45
hiemanshulardman: you just need a space between >15:46
hiemanshubecause >> is an operator15:46
hiemanshuotherwise should work15:46
lardmananyone know what the default time sort order is for QDir()?15:54
lardmanoldest to newest, or vice versa?15:54
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mgedminautomatic capitalization with the hardware keyboard == unpleasant surprises in vi16:03
mgedminand sometimes I switch to the terminal and find it in capslock mode16:05
kimjuafter switching to terminal the first character seems to get corrupted if it is longer than one octet utf-8 sequence.16:17
kimjuin default hwkb layout I thin pound symbol is only one, but I added few more for finnish16:17
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lardmanto the pub, bbl16:29
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RST38hOk. I have got things running relatively nicely.16:55
RST38hExcept that Qt bitmapdrawing appears to be really really really slow16:56
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wazdCan anyone help me with testing terminal icon on N950? :)17:10
wazdI don't know how to replace icons :(17:11
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Tronicwazd: You need to install them into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/appname.png IIRC.17:19
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wazdsure bout 80x80? There's no such folder17:27
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TronicActually I used /usr/share/icons/blanco/80x80/apps/appname.png17:31
TronicThat works, dunno if it is the right place.17:31
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divanwazd, the default meego-terminal icon is in /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/icons/meego-terminal.svg17:39
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mgedminwazd, you can put the icon wherever you like, then edit /usr/share/applications/meego-terminal.desktop and say Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/whatever.png17:59
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mgedminso, meego-terminal18:23
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lardmanhmm, seems some people can't do the alphabet :)
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lardmanmainly me, doh - confusing actual names with nicks18:25
SpeedEvilThat was not a requirement of the program18:25
* lardman blames not listing the nicks first18:25
lardmanSpeedEvil: true :)18:25
* SpeedEvil wonders...18:26
SpeedEvilWhy does it only say 15018:26
SpeedEvilAre they still shipping?18:26
SpeedEvilOr have people dropped off the face of the planet.18:26
* SpeedEvil hops.18:26
lardmanthe numbering is broken in that list I think18:26
lardmangets to 18 then goes to 1 again18:26
mgedminmarkup error?  some extra new line splits the list into two lists?18:27
* SpeedEvil fixes18:27
lardmanI guess so, was going to login and fix it if no-one gets there before me18:27
SpeedEvilIt's monotonic now.18:28
mgedminwhere can I find the right version of meegotouch API docs?18:28
lardmancheers SpeedEvil18:28
mgedminlooking at now, but e.g. all the links to Qt docs are 404ed18:28
* RST38h cackles, replacing slow Qt scaling code with his own18:28
SpeedEvilHowever - isn't on reflection that list updated by the user?18:29
RST38hmgedmin: their way to say you are not supposed to use it? :)18:29
mgedminI don't suppose there are plans to rewrite meego-terminal to QML within, say, next week?18:29
SpeedEvilSo I guess possibly lots of people have not done it.18:29
RST38hprobably "never" is a morerealistic answer...18:29
mgedminso if I want to add 'Open new window' to the terminal's popup menu, I've to use meegotouch18:29
mgedmindo you want the terminal to have a 'open new window' menu item?18:29
* SpeedEvil imagines a terminal window supporting multitouch gestures.18:30
dm8tbrwhat's the killall -9 gesture?18:30
lardmanside of fist?18:31
RST38hdm8tbr: throwing device into a wall18:31
mgedminthrottling the device should do that18:31
SpeedEvilYou draw a representation of the process, with X's for eyes18:31
RST38hYou represent X with your own eyes and the device tracks you and gets the idea18:31
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* SpeedEvil ponders adding 'If you find a n950 in the street, you should mail it to...'.18:32
mgedminme! me! mail it to me!18:32
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lardmanwhat's the name of the notification screen stuff?18:33
lardmanin terms of api18:33
* lardman 's wife has just brought him a glass of vino, ideal :)18:35
mgedminhm, what is this launchAnotherWithQProcess() thing?18:39
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* dm8tbr needs to look at the notification stuff for his LiveView project18:43
DocScrutinizerlardman: (alphabet) I got puzzled by the missing rule on what to sort after all - first name, last name, nick?18:45
DocScrutinizersimply first character of whatever comes first?18:46
mgedmin"sorted by username" IIRC18:46
DocScrutinizerstated nowehere IIRC18:46
mgedminthere were at least two sections, the one with people who already received the devices had the sorting rule18:46
mgedminthe one with people still waiting did not specify a sort rule18:46
mgedminof course it's a wiki and things change all the time18:47
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DocScrutinizeraah yes, now it's stated clearly there18:47
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lardmanThe problem was that the original list was real names, not nicks18:48
lardmanso people had to add their nicks, make sure they were at the start of the text, and then move into sorted order18:49
lardmanbut not a major issue18:49
mgedmin"MApplication will also create a QDBus service with name made by prepending '' to the application name provided in the constructor (or the binary name if no name is provided in the constructor). It will provide an interface called MApplicationIf which calls service methods in an instance of MApplicationService."18:52
mgedminI need to call MApplicationService::launchAnotherWithQProcess()18:52
mgedminI think18:52
mgedminI can get a MApplication via MApplication::instance()18:52
mgedminnow what is this MApplicationIf interface and where is it documented and how do I use it?18:53
mgedminit's a dbus thing...18:54
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* DocScrutinizer suggests to get mdbus2 working on harmattan19:00
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DocScrutinizerNOTE: Mickey's DBus Utility requires well-behaved services, i.e. those which implement the DBus introspection protocol.19:01
DocScrutinizermdbus2: DBus has never been that much fun!19:01
DocScrutinizer>>Extra functionality is interactive mode with tab completion.<< :-D19:03
* mgedmin tries a simpler approach: MApplicationService("").launchAnotherWithQProcess();19:04
DocScrutinizerthere is no simpler approach to awesome mdbus2 tool than mdbus2 ;-D19:06
DocScrutinizerIOW mdbus2 would be a mad useful thing to get anyway19:07
DocScrutinizermodulo it would work at all (/me glares at aegis)19:08
mgedminwell, guess what? it didn't work19:08
mgedminand I know why19:09
* DocScrutinizer ponders going the sneaky dark road of installing fremantle .deb another time, for mdbus219:09
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DocScrutinizerprobably I should add fremantle extras-devel to repo list ;-D19:10
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: and install i2ctools? :P19:14
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: you bet I did19:14
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mgedminokay, it works19:16
mgedminnow the important bit: what should the label say?19:16
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: hah19:16
mgedmin"Open New Window"? "Open New Terminal"? "New Terminal Window"?19:16
mgedminI think I like the last one best19:17
DocScrutinizeraccording to those Nokia guidelines probably "I'll give you another one"19:19
DocScrutinizeror "Need more windows?"19:20
DocScrutinizeror "yoh dawg, +1"19:20
hiemanshu"arrrr, herz morz windawz"19:20
hiemanshuor "m0r3 w1nd0w" :P19:21
mgedminhm, combo box items in popup menus are weirdly misaligned: 20110730-192146.png19:22
* DocScrutinizer thinks he has to re-read those guidelines :-D19:22
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: >>Processed for clearance at TEL AVIV - ISRAEL<< \o/19:24
mgedminthis is an ugly hack, obviously: launching new apps is slow, and 1st instance is "special" in that it is the only one listening on dbus19:24
mgedminand the one app launcher will focus if you launch terminal again19:24
mgedminand if you close it, app launcher will launch a new terminal instead of raising one of the remaining existing windows19:25
mgedminwould be best if meego terminal supported multiple windows in one process19:25
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: or your terminal changes $0 to $RAND19:26
mgedminoh crap I messed up quilt somehow19:26
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mgedminnothing vi .pc/.quilt_patches can't fix...19:27
mgedminrm_you, what do you think about ?19:29
mgedminoh, hey, only now noticed that Harmattan busybox /bin/sh identifies itself as "Maemo" :)19:29
DocScrutinizermgedmin: qmlroundtrip happily starts as many instances as I bother to launch19:29
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hiemanshuugh, the stupid no call dialog bug again, cant cut calls :/19:30
DocScrutinizertakes ages though to start, that's why I noticed it first instance19:30
hiemanshuno way of hanging up, dammit, how I tell people I am angry now19:31
mgedminDocScrutinizer: I guess that's why the docs tell you to use invoker --single-instance in your .desktop file19:31
mgedminit should work with QML apps19:31
mgedmindidn't work with fbreader19:31
DocScrutinizeraah, no idea19:31
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mgedminbut someone pointed me to /usr/bin/single-instance, which *did* work fine with fbreader19:32
* hiemanshu restarts phone19:32
DocScrutinizeranyway qmlroundtrip seemed to segfault when I just clicked the icon to start up 2 times in a row very fast19:33
hiemanshulol, turning on the phone, lock the screen, home screen shows up, swipe, boot up animation19:34
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DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: we should probably replace the boot video anyway ;-D"dont+panic"19:43
RST38hAnyone knows what the grey bar at the bottomof Harmattan QMainWindow is? It does not appear to be the status bar19:50
RST38hah, whatever it was, showFullScreen() and it is gone19:53
mgedminthere's this tantalizing bit in meego-terminal that makes me suspect it's a "navigation bar" of some kind19:53
mgedmin    // hide it not to waste space, it is hidden behind vkb anyway19:53
mgedmin    page->setComponentsDisplayMode(MApplicationPage::NavigationBar,19:53
mgedmin                                   MApplicationPageModel::Hide);19:53
DocScrutinizerunusual for toolbar19:53
* RST38h remembers a joke of two police officers writing a report at the murder site19:54
mgedminmy attempts to nuke it in fbreader with setStatusBar(0) did not succeed19:54
RST38h-- "The head was found at the midle of a roa..." - Captain, is it "middle" or "midle"?19:55
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ""...let's move him to the backery. It's easier to spell"" ?19:55
RST38h-- Erhm...<kick>... just say it was found in a ditch19:55
RST38hmgedmin: showFullScreen() on the QMainWindow19:56
RST38hmgedmin: kills it dead,although I guess you will need it to place FBeader's icons into19:56
mgedminthe bar is invisible in fullscreen mode that fbreader supports19:56
mgedminbut so are fbreader's own toolbar icons and the OS statusbar (what do you call the bar at the top?)19:57
mgedminqApp->setProperty("NoMNavigationBar", true);19:59
mgedmin(found in in libmeegotouch source tree)19:59
RST38htitle bar afaik19:59
mgedminthere's also qApp->setProperty("NoMStatusBar", true);19:59
mgedminthis is in doc/src/plainqt.dox20:00
mgedminpreceded by "With the MeeGo Touch Qt style you can also disable some elements that are added by the style, for example, the status bar or the navigation bar."20:00
RST38hbut I would be vary of using MeegoTouch stuff20:00
mgedminbut meegotouch is deprecated, ain't it?  is meegotouch qt style used for plain qwidget apps in harmattan?20:00
RST38hThey all appear to hate MeegoTouch20:00
mgedminqApp->setProperty() appears to be plain qt to me...20:00
mgedminbut the "M" in property names reeks of meegotouch20:00
RST38hmgedmin: setStyle("plastique") and see what happens (thank Stskeeps for this one)20:01
RST38hwell the set o properties is kinda not well defined20:01
mgedminis there a getStyle() as well?20:01
RST38hit is like those X11 atoms, every man and his dog invent their own20:01
lardman~lart QPlugins20:02
* infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at QPlugins20:02
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mgedminooh, the @import "custom.css"; at the bottom of /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/meegotouchhome.css?20:18
mgedminI think it didn't work because says all @import statements must be at the *top*20:19
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fcrochikHi... any obvious way (that I failed to find out) to install qmlviewer on the n950?20:21
mgedminhm, if you add the harmattan sdk repo, you can apt-get install qt4-declarative-qmlviewer20:21
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I want it to say something like 'Welcome to the world of nokia, where i2c protects you and aegis fucks you' or something like that20:22
mgedminyour mental image of aegis must be something like this:
fcrochikmgedmin: thanks. I was about to build my own :)20:24
hiemanshumgedmin: more like
mikhasRST38h, and they hate it for the wrong reasons, even though the hatred is well-deserved.20:25
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fcrochikjust checking: the qml viewer from the harmattan beta repository is not optimized for harmattan (has a "desktop" menu, does not autorotate, ... ). Isn't there another one?20:42
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mgedminfcrochik, why don't you just build a QML app with Qt Creator?20:52
lcukdoes fbreader store position in book ?20:55
lcukin a readable manner20:55
lcuki have liqbook on 2 computers, and same library on both.  when I pickup a machine it should know where I am upto in the book!20:55
fcrochikmgedmin: I have.... just wanted something so I could develop on the device...20:56
mgedminyou can have your app read the qml file from disk instead of embedding it as a resource20:56
fcrochikmgedmin: yes.... but qmlviewer should do all this for me :)20:56
lcukfcrochik, speak to khertan20:56
lcukfcrochik, he is making ondevice ide20:57
fcrochiklcuk: isn't it for python?20:57
lcukfcrochik, it should be for qt qml too if he is sensible20:58
fcrochiklcuk: that would be nice...20:58
lcukspeak to him20:58
lcukask how he is coming on :)20:58
lcuknothing encourages more than interest and use cases for their project20:58
fcrochikam I the only one that thinks getting the widgets to work on harmattan is a MUST?20:59
fcrochiklcuk: I am the only one?21:00
lcukthat is it a must21:00
mgedmin"the widgets"?21:00
fcrochiklcuk: do you know of anything working on it? or thinking about it?21:01
fcrochik(anybody)... sorry can't get my english right today :(21:01
lardmanhmm, something wrong here, QImage constructor can't seem to load a jpg saved by the camera app21:17
RST38hsure that jpeg is ready when you construct qimage?21:19
RST38hmay get created asycnhronously21:19
lardmanhmm, that is a good point21:21
* RST38h wonders if porting 7 apps to a completely new platform in 24 hours is going to be a record21:22
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rm_youmgedmin: i like22:35
mgedminrm_you, thanks!22:38
mgedminstarting a new process its a bit slow, though22:38
mgedminhow difficult would it be to make a single process handle multiple windows?22:39
rm_youif the threading is done right, not too hard i would think22:39
mgedminfor me personally, the inability to move cursor in vim by tapping (i.e. xterm mouse reporting for terminal apps) is issue #1 at the moment22:43
rm_younever tried tapping22:44
rm_youwhy would i :P22:44
rm_youcapacative is so uselessly innacurate anyway22:44
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lardmanRST38h: I think you may be right about waiting for the file to be ready to read22:48
antman8969I don't get the capacitive hate...22:48
antman8969don't understand that at all, I find them far more accurate22:49
lardmanso, any thoughts about how I can check, using Qt, whether a file is locked as it's being written to?22:49
lardmanantman8969: try very small items22:50
GeneralAntillesrm_you, fiferboy wants help reading the light meter data correctly.22:50
rm_youhrm k22:50
lardmanantman8969: perhaps you're mistaking the fundamental accuracy of the touch layer for the software overlay:?22:50
* GeneralAntilles is going to facilitate his own application suite into being produced by other people.22:50
lardmani.e. how well the software decides what you're trying to do22:50
rm_youlol GA22:50
antman8969perhaps... but if thats the case then it's a non issue22:50
GeneralAntillesrm_you, play with the latest GeoSnap build?22:50
GeneralAntillesAlso, everybody should go download Lexicon.22:51
GeneralAntillesIt's in fiferboy's repo.22:51
rm_youantman8969: i am constantly having programs run or things happen that i in no way intended22:51
lardmanantman8969: true, except if you actually want to have two small buttons close together and to be able to choose between them22:51
rm_youjust by having my hand NEAR the screen22:51
rm_youi don't even touch it sometimes and it launches stuff22:51
antman8969thats not accuracy, that's sensitivity22:51
GeneralAntilleslardman, imprecision, really.22:51
rm_youand trying to click on the right place in text is just futile22:51
lardmanGeneralAntilles: facilitation provided by application of $$$? ;)22:51
rm_youor using a vkbd22:51
GeneralAntilleslardman, nope, just slick talkin'. :P22:51
antman8969lol again, I don't have a problem.... fat fingers>22:51
mgedminvkb is usable22:52
GeneralAntillesrm_you, it's funny, autocorrection is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY with a capacitive VKB22:52
rm_youbarely / not really22:52
GeneralAntillesbut somehow isn't needed with resistive.22:52
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antman8969by comparison... the n900 vkb was unusable for me22:52
GeneralAntillesPrecision fail.22:52
rm_youresistive i had a SHOT at typing the right thing22:52
mgedminand being able to position my cursor within an error of a couple terminal cells is better than not being able to position the cursor at all22:52
GeneralAntillesantman8969, of course it was, Nokia neutered it.22:52
rm_youon capacative it's just like 'good luck"22:52
mgedminyou try h/j/k/l navigation with the vkb :)22:52
GeneralAntillesN800 had the best vkb.22:52
rm_youit was usable22:53
rm_youi never tried the vkbd on n90022:53
rm_youi turned it off22:53
* lardman wonders about polling QFileInfo isWritable() until it becomes true#22:53
GeneralAntillesWas faster on that they I ever got with the N900 keyboard.22:53
GeneralAntillesrm_you, yeah, the N900's vkb was absolutely destroyed by Nokia.22:53
rm_youi'm trying to turn it off on n95022:53
antman8969lardman, you can use c++ qt in qml too22:53
antman8969make a QFile available22:53
rm_youcan't figure out how22:53
lardmanGeneralAntilles: not me, hw kb is always faster, at least for writing normal stuff like SMS22:53
rm_youi want to completely disable it22:53
GeneralAntillesrm_you, doubt you can.22:53
mgedminrm_you, I want a toolbar button in xterm to hide/show vkb22:53
rm_youi think i might be able to break it22:53
mgedminmikhas told me that is possible22:54
rm_youif i can make it just permanently crash22:54
antman8969would be bad for develpoment too, your target platform won't be able to do that ;)22:54
rm_youor replace the UI somehow22:54
lardmanantman8969: does QFile provide a method whereby one can determine if it's locked for writing?22:54
antman8969I would assume, but a quick ctrl+f on the QFile page would be the right place to look22:54
antman8969qt must have a way to do it22:54
antman8969and qfile seemed logical...22:55
antman8969if anything22:55
antman8969you can attempt to open it for writing22:55
antman8969and if it fails, you kind of know...22:55
lardmanThe issue is that QImage silently fails (apparently) and returns a zero sized image22:57
lardmanbut I'd prefer to not have to sit in a polling loop22:57
lardmanlooking at e.g. QFileInfo isWritable()22:57
antman8969you opening the image in qml?22:58
lardmanno, qml is rubbish ;)22:58
lardmanC++ all the way :)22:58
mgedminlardman, what are you trying to do?22:58
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lardmanmgedmin: waiting for new photos to be created, then analysing them22:59
mgedminin linux there are no automatic "locks" while a file is being created22:59
lardmanbut it seems I get notified and can react before the file has finished being written22:59
lardmanI'll probably add a short delay first, then a one shot timer to make sure I don't sit in my polling loop for too long23:00
mgedminI can't come up with anything better than polling until the mtime becomes older than say 2 seconds before now23:00
lardmanI can poll until the file becomes writable23:00
lardmanwhich is marginally better23:00
mgedminhuh? you mean it's not writable initially?23:01
mgedminhow is the app that's writing out the photo managing to do that if the file is not writable?23:01
lardmanwell I'm assuming not, as the camera app has created it23:01
lardmanbut if the camera app is writing to it, surely it won't be writable by another app?23:01
mgedminit will be23:02
mgedminthis is linux23:02
mgedminno mandatory file locks23:02
lardmanoh deaar23:02
lardmanhmm, ok so a timer and check file size perhaps if I can be bothered23:02
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lardmandrat, need to write a class to encapsulate that so that I don't loose track of the filename and image23:06
* lardman goes for a break first :)23:06
* mgedmin is trying to guess lardman's app... barcode scanner?23:06
DocScrutinizerlardman: (waiting for new photos to be created) never thought I'd say this, but... tracker is your friend for that. Unless you want to go the classic way to use inotify directly rather than via tackerd as proxy23:10
DocScrutinizerlardman: also see the cmdline executables inotifywait and inotifywatch23:13
DocScrutinizerdepending on your usecase... >>Events: ... close_write      file or directory closed, after being opened in writeable mode23:14
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DocScrutinizersystem("inotifywait -e close_write -r /path/to/dir_with_pictures")23:20
DocScrutinizerif you (for whatever reasons) are one of those who dislike perfectly sane system() calls to binaries, then go for >> man 7 inotify23:22
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: ??23:39
mgedminnice solution to the problem23:39
mgedminI'd no idea inotify had "close_wait"23:40
DocScrutinizerthanks :-D23:40
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DocScrutinizerI just hope lardman will read the backscroll23:41
DocScrutinizerI'd hate to know there's another polling battery hog app out there23:42
mgedminooh, I know! why don't you ask infobot to give lardman a message when he joins the channel ;-)23:42
DocScrutinizerhe'd probably not even notice it has changed23:43
DocScrutinizerbtw he's still here23:43
DocScrutinizerjust afk it seems23:43
djszapiDoes anybody have experience with meego and rpm packaging ?23:44
djszapiCould someone make me a version update in a package ? I could help with Harmattan packaging back.23:44
* infobot hits mgedmin with a cushion23:45
DocScrutinizerhah, just noticed inotify-tools is available for fremantle as well :-D23:53
DocScrutinizeralas there's no similar knotify-tools that I'd know of23:53
DocScrutinizerwhich really is kinda strange, you'd think some kernel hacker must have written this for testing kobjects/knotify implementation back when they got this into kernel23:57
DocScrutinizerforgot to add "kevents" to the buzzword list23:59

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