IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-07-30

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* Arkenoi wonders if there will be DtG for harmattan		00:18
* SpeedEvil blanks on the acronym		00:19
Arkenoi	Documents to Go	00:19
SpeedEvil	Ah	00:19
Arkenoi	Dataviz	00:19
DocScrutinizer	TLA \o/	00:19
Arkenoi	OOo with easydebian does not really look like viable option.. especially with capacitive touchscreen..	00:20
DocScrutinizer	TLA \o/	00:20
DocScrutinizer	:-P	00:20
divan	simple brightness script :) for harmattan is in /usr/share/clean-device/keep-display-on.sh	00:20
DocScrutinizer	divan: :-))	00:21
Arkenoi	openoffice.org	00:21
Mek	there is the documents viewer app already of course, but that doesn't have editing capabilities yet	00:23
DocScrutinizer	divan: ouch, another weird while true loop	00:23
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DocScrutinizer	while true; ... do [ -e ${CUD_FINISHED} ] && break; done	00:24
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DocScrutinizer	cough	00:24
DocScrutinizer	s/... do/do .../.	00:24
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divan	DocScrutinizer, any idea what is cud?	00:25
DocScrutinizer	clean_up_device	00:25
DocScrutinizer	whatever THAT means then	00:26
Arkenoi	mek: which one?	00:26
Mek	Arkenoi: the "Documents" icon	00:26
Mek	/usr/bin/office-tools	00:26
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Arkenoi	ah. should try. it does not act as mime handler for ms office documents downloaded from web at least	00:27
Mek	it is supposed to...	00:27
divan	DocScrutinizer, ah.. so this script is intended to be used within cleanup tool, and it simply waits until cud is finished	00:27
Mek	if it doesn't, that is a bug :)	00:27
divan	though I agree the bash code is a bit weird	00:28
DocScrutinizer	divan: looks like, and this tools sets a FILE FLAG ( ! :-o ) called /tmp/cud_finished	00:28
divan	DocScrutinizer, exctly	00:29
* DocScrutinizer prefers -SIGINT or -SIGUSR1		00:29
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DocScrutinizer	but then they'd need to use "trap" and this isn't a very popular command in shell scripting, dunno why	00:30
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mgedmin	hard to remember the syntax etc.	00:31
mgedmin	I break out in shivers every time I think I may need to use trap in a shell scripy	00:31
DocScrutinizer	trap my-cleanup-function EXIT	00:32
DocScrutinizer	extremely convenient	00:32
mgedmin	thanks to aegis, I'm learning to use aliases and functions again	00:33
DocScrutinizer	a trap special-handling-function ERROR is also cool	00:33
mgedmin	(I had a habit of creating small shell scripts in ~/bin/)	00:33
DocScrutinizer	I'm still doing this ;-)	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	thanks aegis I added ~/aliases and a line >> source $HOME/aliases to .bashrc	00:35
Arkenoi	btw all n9 demo videos include angry birds.. i wonder where can i get it :-)	00:35
DocScrutinizer	first line in ~/aliases: alias ass='alias -p >/root/aliases'	00:35
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DocScrutinizer	I used do have >> alias as=alias	00:36
DocScrutinizer	but I thought that's a bit silly now	00:37
DocScrutinizer	used it back in my Amiga1000 days	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: in the pub next block of Roxio	00:38
DocScrutinizer	in the night at 11:00, when you are paying all the drinks	00:39
DocScrutinizer	AIUI angry birds goes AR and MORPG now - or sth like that	00:40
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djszapi	lbt ping	00:44
djszapi	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/liba/libarchive/libarchive1_2.8.0-3+0m6_armel.deb -> it is available here, but c-obs complains about that it cannot be found for cmake..	00:44
djszapi	lbt: also available here: http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr:/harmattan/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/armel/libarchive1_2.4.17-2_armel.deb	00:48
qgil	Venemo_: you can see my "poorman's local OBS" system in action at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12315 :)	00:49
povbot	Bug 12315: Placeholder to upload UI source and packages	00:49
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12315 nor, Medium, ---, alexey.kuznetsov, RELE FIXED, libmeegochat should be ported to telepathy-qt4 0.5.x	00:49
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: http://paste.debian.net/124541/	00:50
djszapi	rm_you rm_work packrat does not pick up the repositories from the wikipage.	00:50
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: actually there's a flaw in "my" version, it first waits 15s then switches on screen	00:52
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infobot	Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)	00:57
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* DocScrutinizer wonders when and why the darn bot left the channel		00:59
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DocScrutinizer	or rather why it didn't autojoin after the connectivity/netsplit issue	01:01
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macmaN	urrrr	01:37
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rm_work	djszapi: it definitely does :P	01:46
rm_work	djszapi: it just only checks once/day when i run it	01:46
rm_work	i have to leave to head home right now but I will be back in around an hour i think	01:47
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GeneralAntilles	What the hell does #FF mean on Twitter?	02:04
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vgrade1	GeneralAntilles, I learned this today, Welcome to Twitter ;) #FF = FollowFriday, the list includes people worth following on Twitter (for #MeeGo).	02:09
GeneralAntilles	vgrade1, yeah, just Googled it.	02:09
vgrade1	i was getting a few tweets which were just a list of nicks	02:10
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vgrade1	must have missed a lesson	02:10
vgrade1	on my TODO list for next week	02:11
GeneralAntilles	Damn internet memes.	02:11
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ieatlint	behold the awesomeness of twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/shoesareawesome/status/81743330488221697	02:12
ieatlint	the bug will be solved soon, so be sure to have some fun spoofing some urls until then	02:13
* SpeedEvil sighs.		02:14
SpeedEvil	I wonder if I should get a non-anonymous twitter	02:14
GeneralAntilles	Anybody find a .deb for Firefox yet?	02:16
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, I'll follow you.	02:17
* SpeedEvil sighs.		02:18
SpeedEvil	I can see the need for at least 4 twitter accounts.	02:18
DocScrutinizer	WTF is twitter?	02:19
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, some new thing the damn kids are using.	02:19
DocScrutinizer	IRC for kids?	02:19
GeneralAntilles	More or less.	02:20
DocScrutinizer	cool stuff man!	02:20
GeneralAntilles	Slightly more narcissistic.	02:20
SpeedEvil	Twitter is useful.	02:22
SpeedEvil	It's a multiplatform messaging system that works for even dumbphones.	02:22
SpeedEvil	That lets you coordinate between people, make announcements and stuff, when they may have a computer, a smartphone, or a dumbphone.	02:23
SpeedEvil	Used for 'Look at my shoes!' - it's perhaps less useful.	02:23
SpeedEvil	It's all in the people you follow.	02:23
* SpeedEvil is following http://twitter.com/#!/SpaceXer and http://twitter.com/#!/TheRealBuzz		02:24
* GeneralAntilles tries to track down SpeedEvil.		02:33
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: I am one of the persons that can not use twitter, as this crap doesn't even render in my browser	02:40
DocScrutinizer	and basically I'm happy everybody is using twitter so I don't have to	02:42
DocScrutinizer	up to date I haven't missed anything it seems	02:43
DocScrutinizer	I didn't miss ?	02:44
SpeedEvil	which browser?	02:44
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Termana	morning	03:06
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GeneralAntilles	Damn N950 keeps unlocking in my pocket.	05:02
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antman8969	so I've scratched my n950 case and it turns out the phone isn't colored throughout.... any one know of any repair kits?	05:36
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Ken-Young	What is the default user	06:16
Ken-Young	Oops - sorry, wrong window.	06:17
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Ken-Young	A few days ago, I was told on this channel that to develop for the N950/N9 one should use QML. But the Nokia documentation seems to assume one will use Qt/C++ . What is the most standard way to write apps for Harmattan targets?	06:37
MohammadAG	whatever you want	06:41
MohammadAG	QML with Qt Components is the most portable way	06:41
MohammadAG	MTF is the C++ way	06:41
Ken-Young	What does MTF stand for?	06:41
MohammadAG	MeeGo Touch Framework	06:42
Ken-Young	Thanks	06:42
GeneralAntilles	MTF is deprecated.	06:44
GeneralAntilles	Qt Components is the way to go.	06:44
Scifig	MohammadAG, Are you going to port Open Media Player to harmattan?	06:45
MohammadAG	yes	06:46
MohammadAG	it uses mafw anyway	06:46
Scifig	cool. You will use qmafw right? or the Glib based mafw?	06:47
Scifig	I am trying to understand mafw concepts. Open media player is a very good reference for that.	06:48
MohammadAG	no idea if I'll make a switch	06:49
MohammadAG	it needs a lot of coding	06:49
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Scifig	Yea mafw reminds me of telepathy :(	06:49
MohammadAG	it's actually way easier :p	06:50
Scifig	I wish :( . I posted a question on maemo-devel? Can you take a look when you get a chance? http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/28406	06:52
MohammadAG	that's the cleanest way	06:53
MohammadAG	though I'd use qmafw / libmafw instead of listening to the (dbus) signals myself	06:54
Scifig	I want to move away from dbus signals too. And I didn't have much success on running a daemon with aegis either.	06:55
Scifig	From my questions u'd realize how clueless I'm with mafw.	06:55
MohammadAG	Yeah it's not easy to get started with	06:56
MohammadAG	but once you get the concepts, it's a bit fun	06:56
MohammadAG	I'll help out when I get my N950 if you want	06:56
Scifig	Thanks a lot. I knew it would take time, so for the initial versions I am using dbus signals.	06:57
Scifig	Will contact you again later.	06:58
Scifig	Whats the status on your order anyway?	06:58
MohammadAG	It's in Germany	06:58
MohammadAG	Leipzig (if I didn't misspell that)	06:58
Scifig	Should get it by monday then?	06:58
MohammadAG	hopefully yeah	06:58
MohammadAG	or Sunday	06:58
MohammadAG	(that's a workday in Israel)	06:59
Scifig	cool. Mine was stuck in Midlands, UK for a day for no apparent reason.	06:59
MohammadAG	customs maybe?	07:00
Scifig	No it was just in transit. I am in US. It missed a flight or something :)	07:00
MohammadAG	Ah, US	07:01
MohammadAG	how long did it take to get there?	07:01
Scifig	Left Finland 14th and delivered on 18th here	07:03
Ken-Young	If I am developing for Harmattan, should I be concerned about the fact that the "Device menu of the "Qt Simulator Control" in the Qt SDK does not list Harmattan as a target? Must Harmattan compatibility be added to Qt Creator somehow after that SDK is downloaded?	07:04
Scifig	Ken-Young, From Qt creator follow Help -> Start Updater --> Package Manager --> Experimental . Enable Harmattan	07:06
Ken-Young	Scifig, Thanks you.	07:06
Ken-Young	s/Thanks/Thank/	07:07
infobot	Ken-Young meant: Scifig, Thank you.	07:07
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RST38h	Meego graphics system destroyed	09:01
RST38h	Using the meego graphics system	09:01
RST38h	Segmentation fault (core dumped)	09:01
RST38h	WTF am I doing wrong?	09:01
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rm_you	<RST38h> Meego graphics system destroyed	09:15
rm_you	that's normal	09:15
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RST38h	rm_you: What is abnormal is that after going out and back into application I am getting a core dump somewhere in xlib	09:32
rm_you	hrm	09:32
RST38h	rm_you: With broken stack. And I am not doing anything special, just creating a QApplication and QMainWindow and that's all	09:33
rm_you	strange	09:33
RST38h	rm_you: Do you by any chance know where I can get a QT HelloWorld for Harmattan that I can run as a reference?	09:33
RST38h	(also, the "invoker" things fails to start my binary, no idea why)	09:34
rm_you	RST38h: well there is one	09:34
rm_you	RST38h: it was like, built in to QtCreator	09:35
rm_you	it had a button and if you click the button it makes a label visible that says Hello :P	09:35
RST38h	rm_you: Can I have the source?	09:36
RST38h	rm_you: QtCreator did not work for me, deleted it	09:36
rm_you	are you in QtCreator?	09:36
rm_you	ah	09:36
rm_you	k	09:36
rm_you	erm	09:36
rm_you	let me see if i can find it	09:36
RST38h	Also, where should the icons go???	09:44
RST38h	not into hicolor, right?	09:45
rm_you	no idea	09:48
RST38h	umgh	09:48
RST38h	what a mess...	09:48
Arkenoi	MfE works like charm. That suprised me much, I was completely sure that maemo bugs "WONTFIX util Harmattan" were just euphemism for "when the Hell freezes out"	09:52
RST38h	rm_you: DCC does not seem to work either =(	09:53
RST38h	No, it worked after all!!!	09:55
RST38h	Thanks, matching it against my code now	09:56
RST38h	Arkenoi: YOu are not using a publicly available device, so essentially it is not fixed yet,even in harmattan (that anyone can use)	09:57
Arkenoi	RST38h: n9 is to be released to general public relatively soon	09:58
Arkenoi	though email client without hardware keyboard sucks	09:59
* Arkenoi wonders if there will me more n950 manufactured and distributed after n9 release, the demand is enormous		10:00
* Stskeeps is considering a n9 as he actually finds the OSK quite nice		10:01
RST38h	Stskeeps!	10:01
Arkenoi	I fully understand now why n950 is not public, but most concerns will no longer be valid once harmattan will become "consumer grade"	10:01
* RST38h glares at Stskeeps hungrily		10:01
Stskeeps	morn rst38h	10:01
RST38h	Arkenoi: opening/closing thing is somewhat flimsy, I can totally see consumers breaking it =)	10:02
RST38h	Stskeeps: willing to help a little bit?	10:02
antman8969	I actually never use the keyboard (aside from the terminal). I think the onscreen is quite nice	10:02
Stskeeps	RST38h: with what? :P	10:03
RST38h	Stskeeps: Harmattan development.	10:03
* Stskeeps doesn't really know much about harmattan		10:03
RST38h	Or Qt development, is this is more politically correct thing to say	10:03
Stskeeps	or qt, for that matter :P	10:03
* Stskeeps is more of a low level person		10:03
Arkenoi	RST38h: I am going to the city in a few hours, will pick up dx crap at the post office and probably have a hour or two relatively free before 6pm	10:03
antman8969	with the apis we have... it's harmattan development ;)	10:03
RST38h	But you must have encountered something like this	10:03
Arkenoi	RST38h: It does not look more fragile than e7	10:04
RST38h	Arkenoi: babysitting. this evening or tomorrow though.	10:04
RST38h	Unless of course family plans change. Besides, I am trying to make my stuff run under Harmattan at the moment, made a promise to have something ready in 2 weeks	10:05
Stskeeps	RST38h: -graphicssystem raster helps anything?	10:05
Stskeeps	(yes, the qt library clones 'raster' and makes him do all the manual work)	10:05
RST38h	Stskeeps: nah, coredumps on startup with it	10:05
RST38h	Stskeeps: without it, coredumps when I go back into the app	10:05
Stskeeps	MTF app?	10:06
RST38h	Stskeeps: Plain Qt	10:06
RST38h	Stskeeps: QApplication + QMainWindow + some controls, nothing more	10:06
RST38h	You can remove controls, still crashes	10:06
Stskeeps	RST38h: -style plastique	10:07
Arkenoi	BMO web certificate has expired	10:07
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RST38h	Stskeeps: segmentation fault.	10:14
RST38h	Stskeeps: when going back into the app	10:14
Stskeeps	RST38h: hrm, ok	10:15
Stskeeps	RST38h: do you use a gl context?	10:15
RST38h	No.	10:16
RST38h	Although Qt seems to use it	10:16
RST38h	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/S47zzVzx	10:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: When I go back to the apps menu,it says "...destroyed". When I go back into the app it says "...created", shows the app screen shortly, then dies	10:18
RST38h	gdb shows a crash inside Xlib, but the stack is broken, so no full stack trace	10:18
Stskeeps	RST38h: that really should go away with -graphicssystem raster..	10:19
* Stskeeps doesn't know, but has really really weird MGS behaviour		10:19
Stskeeps	try -graphicssystem native	10:19
RST38h	Does not crash now	10:20
Stskeeps	ok	10:20
RST38h	Seems to work.	10:20
RST38h	What is the difference?	10:20
Stskeeps	heck if i know :P	10:20
Stskeeps	i just recalled it from a problem we had on N900	10:20
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RST38h	Stskeeps: BTW, current build we have got on N950s does not seem to look for icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor	10:33
RST38h	Stskeeps: Had to put the complete path to the icon into .desktop	10:33
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Ken-Young	When I try to run a Harmattan project in Qt Creator, I get the message "Deployment failed: Qemu was not running. It has now been started up for you, but it will take a bit of time until it is ready." But Qemu has not been started. Must I start Qemu manually before trying to run something in the SDK? Must I download Qemu separately, or does it come with the SDK?	10:37
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RST38h	Stskeeps: Suppose, I do not want to do QAppklication.exec(). What do I do instead?	10:41
RST38h	(btw, just enabled my code, that polls events periodically rather than calling exec() and the app coredumps even with "native")	10:42
wazd	hi all	10:42
wazd	RST38h: woo :)	10:42
RST38h	heya wazd	10:42
wazd	RST38h: seen my icons for your emus?	10:43
RST38h	wazd: not yet, where? =)	10:44
* RST38h hasn'tseen his emus run on n950 yet - working on it		10:44
Stskeeps	RST38h: don't know	10:45
wazd	RST38h: NES: http://zhil.in/emus/nes.svg ; GB: http://zhil.in/emus/gb.svg ;	10:47
wazd	Stskeeps: o/	10:47
RST38h	wazd: ! =)	10:49
Stskeeps	morn wazd	10:50
dm8tbr	yaay, I start to understand how things fit together WRT accounts architecture. Now let's hope I can beat harmattan into submission to create generic XMPP (jabber) accounts	10:51
RST38h	wazd: buttons were kinda darker on the original GB - http://ecdn3.hark.com/images/000/002/094/2094/original.jpg (also notice the labels)	10:52
Stskeeps	dm8tbr: isn't the accounts ui stuff oss btw?	10:53
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dm8tbr	Stskeeps: http://gitorious.net/accounts-sso/libaccounts-ui/trees/master/lib/examples/credential-widget-example	10:53
Stskeeps	ah	10:53
dm8tbr	Stskeeps: dug it out in the morning when I remembered that attila mentioned sthg along the lines	10:54
Stskeeps	thought it was	10:54
RST38h	wazd: actually, the only concern I would have is that most users will not recognize the system by two fire buttons (except when it is SNES that had really definitive buttons)	10:54
wazd	"Error detected in index $130 for file 14164" - is it as bad as it sounds? :)	10:54
Stskeeps	wazd: yay ntfs	10:54
wazd	Stskeeps: any non-barbaric way to fix this? :)	10:57
Stskeeps	wazd: well, chkdsk is probably your only hope :P	10:57
Stskeeps	wazd: i would personally rescue any data i needed with a linux livecd :P	10:58
RST38h	wazd: Save all the data NOW	11:00
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RST38h	Stskeeps: what -march etc flags do you suggest for N950?	11:02
* RST38h just compiled without -O2 and the program does not crash		11:02
Stskeeps	RST38h: similar as to n900	11:06
Stskeeps	well, float-abi=hard, not =softfp	11:06
RST38h	-mfloat-abi=hardfp ?	11:07
Stskeeps	=hard	11:07
Stskeeps	pass float values in vfp registers instead of integer registers	11:07
RST38h	ah	11:09
wazd	RST38h: oh man, drive is collapsing?	11:10
RST38h	Ok, I have foundthat it always crashes with -O3	11:10
RST38h	Trying with -O2	11:10
RST38h	wazd: Possibly, willing to bet that it does not?	11:11
RST38h	Anyone with QtSDK willing to check what gcc flags it is using to compile apps?	11:13
RST38h	Please?	11:13
RST38h	Ok, -O2 definitely makes things crash.	11:15
wazd	RST38h: hmm, I guess no :D	11:21
wazd	Can I suggest that terminal icon instead of current one? :) http://zhil.in/terminal.svg	11:22
RST38h	Stskeeps:-mabi=?	11:28
thp	wazd: hey ho :)	11:29
Stskeeps	RST38h: no idea, just use the toolchains there	11:30
Stskeeps	it's EABI	11:30
RST38h	ok	11:30
RST38h	Do I need thumb-interwork?	11:30
wazd	thp: heyhey :)	11:31
wazd	thp: bad day for you, my laptop's harddrive is kinda broken so all the stuff I've done is temporary unavailable :(	11:32
wazd	thp: have you checked the shot I've sent you? :)	11:32
RST38h	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/pyB5mNGr	11:33
RST38h	Stskeeps: this is when compiled with -O2	11:33
Stskeeps	RST38h: install -dbg packages	11:36
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RST38h	for what libs?	11:38
Stskeeps	well, do some guesswork, qt	11:40
thp	wazd: yes, looking good	11:44
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wazd	crap, I have only one sata power cable in my PC :(	11:47
thp	wazd: btw, i've dug up some mock-ups that you have done previously, i think i might do a "mock-up special" posting at some point (except if you want to do it)	11:50
wazd	thp: hehe, that would be cool :)	11:53
wazd	thp: I have some latest shots backed up on the phone so it won't be hard to recreate them anyway	11:54
wazd	thp: http://s007.radikal.ru/i302/1107/63/ba1d6975c3de.png	11:58
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RST38h	A'OK I have got it to run with -O2	12:13
gri	Anyone using the QtSDK here? Can you see the contents of a QString in the debugger? :)	12:20
gri	(on the device of course)	12:20
RST38h	Ok, reorganizing the qt code completely made it kinda work	12:29
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* Arkenoi tries to figure out how to extract email attach in the default mail client		12:32
Arkenoi	ah	12:32
Arkenoi	it is just a question of precise tap	12:32
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RST38h	Ok. Any Qt gurus still alive? (not asleep?)	13:01
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alterego	RST38h: wassup?	13:13
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RST38h	alterego: here? =)	13:41
RST38h	alterego: I cannot make application quit - it does not call closeEvent()!	13:46
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* gri curses QML Loader item!		13:55
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infobot	lardman: please check http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-22.log.html#t2011-07-22T18:42:19, cheers DocScr	14:03
lardman	morning	14:04
lardman	infobot: I've already read that message	14:04
lardman	will wonders never cease, upgraded to Natty Narwhal, resulting in the usual lack of any monitor support	14:04
DocScrutinizer	YAY	14:04
DocScrutinizer	sorry lardman	14:04
wazd	dpkg: status database area is locked by another process <- is it solvable? :)	14:04
lardman	but in working out how to fix it, I've managed to enable my third monitor finally, only been a year or so since I was last able to use that under Linux :)	14:05
DocScrutinizer	~onjoin lardman -	14:05
infobot	ok, DocScrutinizer	14:05
lardman	hey Doc	14:05
wazd	hey lardman :)	14:05
lardman	hi wazd	14:05
* lardman grumbles at the waste of 1.5h fixing that problem		14:06
lardman	though I guess the result is better than the original	14:06
lardman	for reference, zaphodhead for radeon multihead and disable composite for nvidia with xinerama	14:07
lardman	are there any instructions for installing the Fremantle rootfs/compiler with the Harmattan version of SB?	14:08
lardman	also, is it just me or does the N950 not support sftp connections?	14:10
lardman	I guess some file needs editing to allow them?	14:10
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: >>Departed Facility in BERGAMO - ITALY<< next stop IL	14:11
lardman	grumble grumble, why are there so many ways to implement DBus functionality under Qt	14:17
lcuk	lardman, same as many things, different developers each needing the code and having to make implementations	14:19
lardman	lcuk: well it's more the way that one can use cryptic Q_SIGNALs which seem to just work, but then there are other instructions to use QDbusAdaptors (or something like that)	14:20
lardman	QDBusAbstractAdaptor that should be	14:20
lcuk	lardman, dbus has multiple api levels	14:21
lardman	true, in which case better docs would be nice	14:23
lardman	the Q_SIGNALs trick isn't mentioned in the main docs, just on the Nokia developer site	14:23
RST38h	OMFG	14:24
RST38h	Qt uses 26-bit key codes	14:24
lardman	full support for all Chinese characters?	14:25
RST38h	lardman: more like someone's idea of using those bits for his private data	14:26
RST38h	based on the enum anyway	14:26
RST38h	lardman: better tell me, how can it happen that I draw into the QWidget with a painter, on the proper paintevent() and all I see is a black square? After I go into task manager and back into the app, it shows the image	14:27
lardman	hmm	14:28
lardman	some double buffering effect	14:28
lardman	?	14:28
RST38h	too deep for me	14:30
RST38h	it is probably "you are not calling some obscure Qt function to let Qt know you updated a widget"	14:31
lardman	You can disable double buffering somehow	14:32
* lardman can't remember how off hand mind you		14:32
* RST38h asks the world mind(tm)		14:33
RST38h	BTW, dear god, sleeping in the sea, please rise and punish the evil bastard who came up with these island keyboards	14:34
lardman	RST38h: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qwidget.html#transparency-and-double-buffering	14:35
lardman	autoFillBackground set to false iirc	14:35
RST38h	aha thanks	14:36
lardman	setAutoFillBackground(false) that would be of course	14:36
lardman	don't thank me yet, may well not do anything useful ;)	14:36
lcuk	RST38h, but but but but but	14:36
lcuk	you should be directly using qml!	14:36
lardman	hmm, my QFileSystemWatcher appears to not be working	14:36
lardman	lcuk: pah!	14:36
lcuk	QML pixels would be neat	14:37
lcuk	like the excel spreadsheet animation :D	14:37
lardman	I've not seen that	14:39
RST38h	lardman: didn't help	14:46
lcuk	RST38h, make a tiny hello world and draw in qpainter and see if that still has same problem	14:50
lardman	RST38h: oh, sorry	15:00
lardman	what about widget->setAttribute(Qt::WA_PaintOnScreen);	15:01
RST38h	lardman: just tried this one too	15:03
RST38h	lardman: did nothelp	15:03
lardman	hmm	15:05
lardman	setAttribute(Qt::WA_NoSystemBackground); ?	15:05
lardman	or have we already done that one?	15:05
lardman	far too many attributes!	15:05
lardman	:)	15:05
* lardman wonders if his QFileSystemWatcher problem is caused by him watching the parent dir and not receiving events generated in the child dirs		15:06
lcuk	setAttribute(Qt::WA_OpaquePaintEvent,true);	15:06
* lcuk has that on qt wall calendar		15:07
lcuk	lardman, afaik sub folders are not tracked	15:07
lcuk	at least from historical	15:07
lcuk	i wanted to use inotify on base folder for everything inside	15:08
lcuk	but afaik I had to add one to each specific folder	15:08
lcuk	lest the inotify would generate huge amounts of data if started on /	15:08
lcuk	lardman, can you subscribe to tracker events?	15:10
wazd	Summeli: ping? :)	15:12
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lardman	lcuk: yeah I could do, and equally there's a DBus event broadcast by the camera app	15:23
lcuk	useful	15:24
lardman	I'd prefer the file tracker though as it's simple(r than Tracker, I assume) and more generic than hooking up to the specific message from the current camera app	15:25
lardman	hmm, I tell a lie, I've got a QFileSystemWatcher path set to /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM and that's where the files are created too	15:26
lardman	so it's not a case of subdirs messing things up	15:26
lcuk	lardman, hm then	15:26
lardman	I wonder if I've correctly understood how it works...?	15:28
lardman	I'm adding a directory in the expectation that I will receive events if files and/or directories within that directory are modified	15:28
lardman	but perhaps you have to explicitly add a directory/file path for a given file?	15:28
lardman	that seems quite un-useful though	15:28
lardman	hmm rubbish, direcoryChanged() is emitted for any changes to files in a dir, filechanged() is only emitted if you explicitly specify the file	15:38
lardman	this means I need to store the dir contents state internally	15:38
lardman	rubbish	15:38
lcuk	hm	15:39
lcuk	lardman	15:39
lcuk	thats odd	15:39
lcuk	i gather internally the filesystemwatcher will use inotify on linux	15:39
lcuk	which gives the name of the file beingmodified	15:39
lcuk	perhaps driver error :P	15:39
lardman	no, I've seen some other comments to this effect, but apparently it's still not actually very useful	15:40
divan	How much time Standard Flasher should erase? It's already 10 minutes passed since 'Erasing, this may take a while.' appers...	15:40
divan	s/appers/appeared/	15:41
infobot	divan meant: How much time Standard Flasher should erase? It's already 10 minutes passed since 'Erasing, this may take a while.' appeared...	15:41
lardman	never tried it, sorry	15:41
lcuk	divan, 10 minutes is fine	15:41
divan	last time I've reflashed with Quick Erase Flasher and it took seconds	15:41
dm8tbr	divan: whole process 40min or so	15:41
divan	lcuk, oh, thanks	15:41
lcuk	i used windows flasher and it took ~20 minutesish	15:41
divan	Hm, what's the point of this erasing? What's namely is being erased and what for?	15:42
lcuk	divan, idk	15:43
lcuk	but since the process is one click reflash its ont really for debugging	15:43
hiemanshu	divan: NOLO	15:43
lardman	I wonder if I can have a list of lists?	15:44
lcuk	also note the reflash is whole device	15:44
hiemanshu	thats what the website says atleast	15:44
lcuk	all photos and stuff too	15:44
lardman	QList<QList<QFileInfo>> ?	15:44
hiemanshu	lardman: Array?	15:44
divan	lcuk, ok, I understand this, but why not simply overwrite it?	15:45
lcuk	divan, ask Nokia	15:45
hiemanshu	lardman: http://www.qtcentre.org/threads/27453-QList-of-QLists	15:45
lardman	hiemanshu: I'm embracing the Qt way	15:45
hiemanshu	lardman: you just need a space between >	15:46
hiemanshu	because >> is an operator	15:46
hiemanshu	otherwise should work	15:46
lardman	Cool	15:46
lardman	anyone know what the default time sort order is for QDir()?	15:54
lardman	oldest to newest, or vice versa?	15:54
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mgedmin	automatic capitalization with the hardware keyboard == unpleasant surprises in vi	16:03
SpeedEvil	:)	16:04
mgedmin	and sometimes I switch to the terminal and find it in capslock mode	16:05
kimju	after switching to terminal the first character seems to get corrupted if it is longer than one octet utf-8 sequence.	16:17
kimju	in default hwkb layout I thin pound symbol is only one, but I added few more for finnish	16:17
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lardman	to the pub, bbl	16:29
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RST38h	Ok. I have got things running relatively nicely.	16:55
RST38h	Except that Qt bitmapdrawing appears to be really really really slow	16:56
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wazd	Can anyone help me with testing terminal icon on N950? :)	17:10
wazd	http://zhil.in/terminal.svg	17:10
wazd	I don't know how to replace icons :(	17:11
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Tronic	wazd: You need to install them into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/appname.png IIRC.	17:19
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wazd	sure bout 80x80? There's no such folder	17:27
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Tronic	Actually I used /usr/share/icons/blanco/80x80/apps/appname.png	17:31
Tronic	That works, dunno if it is the right place.	17:31
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divan	wazd, the default meego-terminal icon is in /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/icons/meego-terminal.svg	17:39
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mgedmin	wazd, you can put the icon wherever you like, then edit /usr/share/applications/meego-terminal.desktop and say Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/whatever.png	17:59
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mgedmin	so, meego-terminal	18:23
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lardman	hmm, seems some people can't do the alphabet :) http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Completed	18:24
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lardman	mainly me, doh - confusing actual names with nicks	18:25
SpeedEvil	That was not a requirement of the program	18:25
* lardman blames not listing the nicks first		18:25
lardman	SpeedEvil: true :)	18:25
* SpeedEvil wonders...		18:26
SpeedEvil	Why does it only say 150	18:26
SpeedEvil	Are they still shipping?	18:26
SpeedEvil	Or have people dropped off the face of the planet.	18:26
* SpeedEvil hops.		18:26
lardman	the numbering is broken in that list I think	18:26
SpeedEvil	Probably	18:26
lardman	gets to 18 then goes to 1 again	18:26
mgedmin	markup error? some extra new line splits the list into two lists?	18:27
SpeedEvil	ah	18:27
* SpeedEvil fixes		18:27
lardman	I guess so, was going to login and fix it if no-one gets there before me	18:27
SpeedEvil	It's monotonic now.	18:28
mgedmin	where can I find the right version of meegotouch API docs?	18:28
lardman	cheers SpeedEvil	18:28
mgedmin	looking at http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/platform/html/libmeegotouch/ now, but e.g. all the links to Qt docs are 404ed	18:28
* RST38h cackles, replacing slow Qt scaling code with his own		18:28
SpeedEvil	However - isn't on reflection that list updated by the user?	18:29
RST38h	mgedmin: their way to say you are not supposed to use it? :)	18:29
mgedmin	I don't suppose there are plans to rewrite meego-terminal to QML within, say, next week?	18:29
SpeedEvil	So I guess possibly lots of people have not done it.	18:29
RST38h	probably "never" is a morerealistic answer...	18:29
mgedmin	so if I want to add 'Open new window' to the terminal's popup menu, I've to use meegotouch	18:29
mgedmin	do you want the terminal to have a 'open new window' menu item?	18:29
mgedmin	:)	18:29
* SpeedEvil imagines a terminal window supporting multitouch gestures.		18:30
dm8tbr	what's the killall -9 gesture?	18:30
lardman	side of fist?	18:31
RST38h	dm8tbr: throwing device into a wall	18:31
mgedmin	throttling the device should do that	18:31
SpeedEvil	You draw a representation of the process, with X's for eyes	18:31
RST38h	You represent X with your own eyes and the device tracks you and gets the idea	18:31
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* SpeedEvil ponders adding 'If you find a n950 in the street, you should mail it to...'.		18:32
mgedmin	me! me! mail it to me!	18:32
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lardman	what's the name of the notification screen stuff?	18:33
lardman	in terms of api	18:33
* lardman 's wife has just brought him a glass of vino, ideal :)		18:35
mgedmin	hm, what is this launchAnotherWithQProcess() thing?	18:39
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* dm8tbr needs to look at the notification stuff for his LiveView project		18:43
DocScrutinizer	lardman: (alphabet) I got puzzled by the missing rule on what to sort after all - first name, last name, nick?	18:45
DocScrutinizer	simply first character of whatever comes first?	18:46
mgedmin	"sorted by meego.com username" IIRC	18:46
DocScrutinizer	stated nowehere IIRC	18:46
mgedmin	there were at least two sections, the one with people who already received the devices had the sorting rule	18:46
mgedmin	the one with people still waiting did not specify a sort rule	18:46
mgedmin	IIRC	18:46
mgedmin	of course it's a wiki and things change all the time	18:47
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DocScrutinizer	aah yes, now it's stated clearly there	18:47
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lardman	The problem was that the original list was real names, not nicks	18:48
mgedmin	yes	18:49
lardman	so people had to add their nicks, make sure they were at the start of the text, and then move into sorted order	18:49
lardman	but not a major issue	18:49
mgedmin	"MApplication will also create a QDBus service with name made by prepending 'com.nokia.' to the application name provided in the constructor (or the binary name if no name is provided in the constructor). It will provide an interface called MApplicationIf which calls service methods in an instance of MApplicationService."	18:52
mgedmin	I need to call MApplicationService::launchAnotherWithQProcess()	18:52
mgedmin	I think	18:52
mgedmin	I can get a MApplication via MApplication::instance()	18:52
mgedmin	now what is this MApplicationIf interface and where is it documented and how do I use it?	18:53
mgedmin	it's a dbus thing...	18:54
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* DocScrutinizer suggests to get mdbus2 working on harmattan		19:00
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DocScrutinizer	NOTE: Mickey's DBus Utility requires well-behaved services, i.e. those which implement the DBus introspection protocol.	19:01
DocScrutinizer	mdbus2: DBus has never been that much fun!	19:01
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.org/packages/view/mdbus2/	19:02
DocScrutinizer	>>Extra functionality is interactive mode with tab completion.<< :-D	19:03
* mgedmin tries a simpler approach: MApplicationService("com.nokia.meego-terminal").launchAnotherWithQProcess();		19:04
DocScrutinizer	there is no simpler approach to awesome mdbus2 tool than mdbus2 ;-D	19:06
DocScrutinizer	IOW mdbus2 would be a mad useful thing to get anyway	19:07
DocScrutinizer	modulo it would work at all (/me glares at aegis)	19:08
mgedmin	well, guess what? it didn't work	19:08
mgedmin	and I know why	19:09
* DocScrutinizer ponders going the sneaky dark road of installing fremantle .deb another time, for mdbus2		19:09
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DocScrutinizer	probably I should add fremantle extras-devel to repo list ;-D	19:10
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lardman	hardfloat?	19:11
Stskeeps	yes	19:13
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: and install i2ctools? :P	19:14
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: you bet I did	19:14
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DocScrutinizer	http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-27.log.html#t2011-07-27T08:05:47	19:16
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mgedmin	okay, it works	19:16
mgedmin	now the important bit: what should the label say?	19:16
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: hah	19:16
mgedmin	"Open New Window"? "Open New Terminal"? "New Terminal Window"?	19:16
mgedmin	I think I like the last one best	19:17
DocScrutinizer	according to those Nokia guidelines probably "I'll give you another one"	19:19
DocScrutinizer	or "Need more windows?"	19:20
DocScrutinizer	or "yoh dawg, +1"	19:20
hiemanshu	"arrrr, herz morz windawz"	19:20
hiemanshu	or "m0r3 w1nd0w" :P	19:21
mgedmin	hm, combo box items in popup menus are weirdly misaligned: 20110730-192146.png	19:22
* DocScrutinizer thinks he has to re-read those guidelines :-D		19:22
mgedmin	doh, http://i.imgur.com/RNt62.png	19:23
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: >>Processed for clearance at TEL AVIV - ISRAEL<< \o/	19:24
mgedmin	this is an ugly hack, obviously: launching new apps is slow, and 1st instance is "special" in that it is the only one listening on dbus	19:24
mgedmin	and the one app launcher will focus if you launch terminal again	19:24
mgedmin	and if you close it, app launcher will launch a new terminal instead of raising one of the remaining existing windows	19:25
mgedmin	would be best if meego terminal supported multiple windows in one process	19:25
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: or your terminal changes $0 to $RAND	19:26
DocScrutinizer	:-P	19:26
mgedmin	oh crap I messed up quilt somehow	19:26
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mgedmin	nothing vi .pc/.quilt_patches can't fix...	19:27
mgedmin	rm_you, what do you think about http://pastie.org/2295045 http://i.imgur.com/BX8ws.png ?	19:29
mgedmin	oh, hey, only now noticed that Harmattan busybox /bin/sh identifies itself as "Maemo" :)	19:29
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: qmlroundtrip happily starts as many instances as I bother to launch	19:29
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hiemanshu	ugh, the stupid no call dialog bug again, cant cut calls :/	19:30
DocScrutinizer	takes ages though to start, that's why I noticed it first instance	19:30
hiemanshu	no way of hanging up, dammit, how I tell people I am angry now	19:31
hiemanshu	+do	19:31
DocScrutinizer	LOL	19:31
mgedmin	DocScrutinizer: I guess that's why the docs tell you to use invoker --single-instance in your .desktop file	19:31
mgedmin	it should work with QML apps	19:31
mgedmin	didn't work with fbreader	19:31
DocScrutinizer	aah, no idea	19:31
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mgedmin	but someone pointed me to /usr/bin/single-instance, which did work fine with fbreader	19:32
* hiemanshu restarts phone		19:32
DocScrutinizer	anyway qmlroundtrip seemed to segfault when I just clicked the icon to start up 2 times in a row very fast	19:33
hiemanshu	lol, turning on the phone, lock the screen, home screen shows up, swipe, boot up animation	19:34
DocScrutinizer	haha	19:35
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DocScrutinizer	hiemanshu: we should probably replace the boot video anyway ;-D http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q="dont+panic"	19:43
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/bootvideo-DONTPANIC/	19:46
RST38h	Anyone knows what the grey bar at the bottomof Harmattan QMainWindow is? It does not appear to be the status bar	19:50
DocScrutinizer	toolbar	19:52
DocScrutinizer	afaik	19:53
RST38h	ah, whatever it was, showFullScreen() and it is gone	19:53
DocScrutinizer	o.O	19:53
mgedmin	there's this tantalizing bit in meego-terminal that makes me suspect it's a "navigation bar" of some kind	19:53
mgedmin	// hide it not to waste space, it is hidden behind vkb anyway	19:53
mgedmin	page->setComponentsDisplayMode(MApplicationPage::NavigationBar,	19:53
mgedmin	MApplicationPageModel::Hide);	19:53
DocScrutinizer	unusual for toolbar	19:53
* RST38h remembers a joke of two police officers writing a report at the murder site		19:54
mgedmin	my attempts to nuke it in fbreader with setStatusBar(0) did not succeed	19:54
RST38h	-- "The head was found at the midle of a roa..." - Captain, is it "middle" or "midle"?	19:55
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: ""...let's move him to the backery. It's easier to spell"" ?	19:55
RST38h	-- Erhm...<kick>... just say it was found in a ditch	19:55
RST38h	Doc:Yep	19:55
RST38h	mgedmin: showFullScreen() on the QMainWindow	19:56
RST38h	mgedmin: kills it dead,although I guess you will need it to place FBeader's icons into	19:56
mgedmin	the bar is invisible in fullscreen mode that fbreader supports	19:56
mgedmin	but so are fbreader's own toolbar icons and the OS statusbar (what do you call the bar at the top?)	19:57
mgedmin	hmm	19:58
mgedmin	qApp->setProperty("NoMNavigationBar", true);	19:59
mgedmin	(found in in libmeegotouch source tree)	19:59
RST38h	title bar afaik	19:59
mgedmin	there's also qApp->setProperty("NoMStatusBar", true);	19:59
RST38h	nice	20:00
mgedmin	this is in doc/src/plainqt.dox	20:00
mgedmin	preceded by "With the MeeGo Touch Qt style you can also disable some elements that are added by the style, for example, the status bar or the navigation bar."	20:00
RST38h	but I would be vary of using MeegoTouch stuff	20:00
mgedmin	but meegotouch is deprecated, ain't it? is meegotouch qt style used for plain qwidget apps in harmattan?	20:00
RST38h	They all appear to hate MeegoTouch	20:00
mgedmin	qApp->setProperty() appears to be plain qt to me...	20:00
mgedmin	but the "M" in property names reeks of meegotouch	20:00
RST38h	mgedmin: setStyle("plastique") and see what happens (thank Stskeeps for this one)	20:01
mgedmin	hmm	20:01
RST38h	well the set o properties is kinda not well defined	20:01
mgedmin	is there a getStyle() as well?	20:01
RST38h	it is like those X11 atoms, every man and his dog invent their own	20:01
lardman	~lart QPlugins	20:02
* infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at QPlugins		20:02
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mgedmin	ooh, the @import "custom.css"; at the bottom of /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/meegotouchhome.css?	20:18
mgedmin	I think it didn't work because http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/platform/html/libmeegotouch/styling_stylesheets.html says all @import statements must be at the top	20:19
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fcrochik	Hi... any obvious way (that I failed to find out) to install qmlviewer on the n950?	20:21
mgedmin	hm, if you add the harmattan sdk repo, you can apt-get install qt4-declarative-qmlviewer	20:21
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: I want it to say something like 'Welcome to the world of nokia, where i2c protects you and aegis fucks you' or something like that	20:22
mgedmin	your mental image of aegis must be something like this: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2009/05/fruitfucker.jpg	20:23
fcrochik	mgedmin: thanks. I was about to build my own :)	20:24
hiemanshu	mgedmin: more like http://peoplesbike.com/pplsen/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/baby-bottle-01.jpeg	20:24
mikhas	RST38h, and they hate it for the wrong reasons, even though the hatred is well-deserved.	20:25
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fcrochik	just checking: the qml viewer from the harmattan beta repository is not optimized for harmattan (has a "desktop" menu, does not autorotate, ... ). Isn't there another one?	20:42
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mgedmin	fcrochik, why don't you just build a QML app with Qt Creator?	20:52
lcuk	does fbreader store position in book ?	20:55
lcuk	in a readable manner	20:55
lcuk	i have liqbook on 2 computers, and same library on both. when I pickup a machine it should know where I am upto in the book!	20:55
fcrochik	mgedmin: I have.... just wanted something so I could develop on the device...	20:56
mgedmin	you can have your app read the qml file from disk instead of embedding it as a resource	20:56
fcrochik	mgedmin: yes.... but qmlviewer should do all this for me :)	20:56
lcuk	fcrochik, speak to khertan	20:56
mgedmin	http://wiki.meego.com/Porting_Fremantle_Applications_to_Harmattan#Store_QML_in_Filesystem_instead_of_Resources	20:56
lcuk	fcrochik, he is making ondevice ide	20:57
lcuk	:)	20:57
fcrochik	lcuk: isn't it for python?	20:57
lcuk	fcrochik, it should be for qt qml too if he is sensible	20:58
lcuk	:)	20:58
fcrochik	lcuk: that would be nice...	20:58
lcuk	speak to him	20:58
lcuk	ask how he is coming on :)	20:58
lcuk	nothing encourages more than interest and use cases for their project	20:58
fcrochik	agreed....	20:58
fcrochik	am I the only one that thinks getting the widgets to work on harmattan is a MUST?	20:59
lcuk	yes	21:00
fcrochik	lcuk: I am the only one?	21:00
lcuk	that is it a must	21:00
mgedmin	"the widgets"?	21:00
fcrochik	lcuk: do you know of anything working on it? or thinking about it?	21:01
fcrochik	(anybody)... sorry can't get my english right today :(	21:01
lardman	hmm, something wrong here, QImage constructor can't seem to load a jpg saved by the camera app	21:17
RST38h	sure that jpeg is ready when you construct qimage?	21:19
RST38h	may get created asycnhronously	21:19
lardman	hmm, that is a good point	21:21
* RST38h wonders if porting 7 apps to a completely new platform in 24 hours is going to be a record		21:22
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rm_you	mgedmin: i like	22:35
mgedmin	rm_you, thanks!	22:38
mgedmin	starting a new process its a bit slow, though	22:38
mgedmin	how difficult would it be to make a single process handle multiple windows?	22:39
rm_you	if the threading is done right, not too hard i would think	22:39
mgedmin	for me personally, the inability to move cursor in vim by tapping (i.e. xterm mouse reporting for terminal apps) is issue #1 at the moment	22:43
rm_you	hrm	22:44
rm_you	meh	22:44
rm_you	never tried tapping	22:44
rm_you	why would i :P	22:44
rm_you	capacative is so uselessly innacurate anyway	22:44
mgedmin	:)	22:46
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lardman	RST38h: I think you may be right about waiting for the file to be ready to read	22:48
antman8969	I don't get the capacitive hate...	22:48
lardman	inaccuracy	22:49
antman8969	don't understand that at all, I find them far more accurate	22:49
lardman	so, any thoughts about how I can check, using Qt, whether a file is locked as it's being written to?	22:49
lardman	antman8969: try very small items	22:50
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, fiferboy wants help reading the light meter data correctly.	22:50
rm_you	hrm k	22:50
lardman	antman8969: perhaps you're mistaking the fundamental accuracy of the touch layer for the software overlay:?	22:50
* GeneralAntilles is going to facilitate his own application suite into being produced by other people.		22:50
lardman	i.e. how well the software decides what you're trying to do	22:50
rm_you	lol GA	22:50
antman8969	perhaps... but if thats the case then it's a non issue	22:50
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, play with the latest GeoSnap build?	22:50
rm_you	no	22:50
GeneralAntilles	Also, everybody should go download Lexicon.	22:51
GeneralAntilles	It's in fiferboy's repo.	22:51
rm_you	antman8969: i am constantly having programs run or things happen that i in no way intended	22:51
lardman	antman8969: true, except if you actually want to have two small buttons close together and to be able to choose between them	22:51
rm_you	just by having my hand NEAR the screen	22:51
rm_you	i don't even touch it sometimes and it launches stuff	22:51
antman8969	thats not accuracy, that's sensitivity	22:51
GeneralAntilles	lardman, imprecision, really.	22:51
rm_you	and trying to click on the right place in text is just futile	22:51
lardman	GeneralAntilles: facilitation provided by application of $$$? ;)	22:51
rm_you	or using a vkbd	22:51
GeneralAntilles	lardman, nope, just slick talkin'. :P	22:51
antman8969	lol again, I don't have a problem.... fat fingers>	22:51
lardman	;)	22:51
mgedmin	vkb is usable	22:52
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, it's funny, autocorrection is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY with a capacitive VKB	22:52
rm_you	barely / not really	22:52
GeneralAntilles	but somehow isn't needed with resistive.	22:52
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rm_you	yeah	22:52
rm_you	lol	22:52
antman8969	by comparison... the n900 vkb was unusable for me	22:52
GeneralAntilles	Precision fail.	22:52
rm_you	resistive i had a SHOT at typing the right thing	22:52
mgedmin	and being able to position my cursor within an error of a couple terminal cells is better than not being able to position the cursor at all	22:52
GeneralAntilles	antman8969, of course it was, Nokia neutered it.	22:52
rm_you	on capacative it's just like 'good luck"	22:52
mgedmin	you try h/j/k/l navigation with the vkb :)	22:52
GeneralAntilles	N800 had the best vkb.	22:52
rm_you	yeah	22:52
rm_you	it was usable	22:53
rm_you	i never tried the vkbd on n900	22:53
rm_you	i turned it off	22:53
* lardman wonders about polling QFileInfo isWritable() until it becomes true#		22:53
GeneralAntilles	Was faster on that they I ever got with the N900 keyboard.	22:53
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, yeah, the N900's vkb was absolutely destroyed by Nokia.	22:53
rm_you	i'm trying to turn it off on n950	22:53
antman8969	lardman, you can use c++ qt in qml too	22:53
antman8969	make a QFile available	22:53
rm_you	can't figure out how	22:53
lardman	GeneralAntilles: not me, hw kb is always faster, at least for writing normal stuff like SMS	22:53
rm_you	i want to completely disable it	22:53
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, doubt you can.	22:53
mgedmin	rm_you, I want a toolbar button in xterm to hide/show vkb	22:53
rm_you	i think i might be able to break it	22:53
mgedmin	mikhas told me that is possible	22:54
rm_you	if i can make it just permanently crash	22:54
antman8969	would be bad for develpoment too, your target platform won't be able to do that ;)	22:54
rm_you	or replace the UI somehow	22:54
rm_you	T_T	22:54
lardman	antman8969: does QFile provide a method whereby one can determine if it's locked for writing?	22:54
antman8969	I would assume, but a quick ctrl+f on the QFile page would be the right place to look	22:54
antman8969	qt must have a way to do it	22:54
antman8969	and qfile seemed logical...	22:55
antman8969	if anything	22:55
antman8969	you can attempt to open it for writing	22:55
antman8969	and if it fails, you kind of know...	22:55
lardman	The issue is that QImage silently fails (apparently) and returns a zero sized image	22:57
lardman	but I'd prefer to not have to sit in a polling loop	22:57
lardman	looking at e.g. QFileInfo isWritable()	22:57
antman8969	you opening the image in qml?	22:58
lardman	no, qml is rubbish ;)	22:58
lardman	C++ all the way :)	22:58
antman8969	lol	22:58
lardman	:)	22:58
mgedmin	lardman, what are you trying to do?	22:58
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lardman	mgedmin: waiting for new photos to be created, then analysing them	22:59
mgedmin	in linux there are no automatic "locks" while a file is being created	22:59
lardman	but it seems I get notified and can react before the file has finished being written	22:59
mgedmin	*written	22:59
lardman	I'll probably add a short delay first, then a one shot timer to make sure I don't sit in my polling loop for too long	23:00
mgedmin	I can't come up with anything better than polling until the mtime becomes older than say 2 seconds before now	23:00
lardman	I can poll until the file becomes writable	23:00
lardman	which is marginally better	23:00
mgedmin	huh? you mean it's not writable initially?	23:01
lardman	hmm	23:01
mgedmin	how is the app that's writing out the photo managing to do that if the file is not writable?	23:01
lardman	well I'm assuming not, as the camera app has created it	23:01
lardman	but if the camera app is writing to it, surely it won't be writable by another app?	23:01
mgedmin	it will be	23:02
mgedmin	this is linux	23:02
lardman	really?!	23:02
mgedmin	no mandatory file locks	23:02
lardman	oh deaar	23:02
lardman	hmm, ok so a timer and check file size perhaps if I can be bothered	23:02
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lardman	drat, need to write a class to encapsulate that so that I don't loose track of the filename and image	23:06
* lardman goes for a break first :)		23:06
* mgedmin is trying to guess lardman's app... barcode scanner?		23:06
DocScrutinizer	lardman: (waiting for new photos to be created) never thought I'd say this, but... tracker is your friend for that. Unless you want to go the classic way to use inotify directly rather than via tackerd as proxy	23:10
DocScrutinizer	lardman: also see the cmdline executables inotifywait and inotifywatch	23:13
DocScrutinizer	depending on your usecase... >>Events: ... close_write file or directory closed, after being opened in writeable mode	23:14
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DocScrutinizer	system("inotifywait -e close_write -r /path/to/dir_with_pictures")	23:20
DocScrutinizer	if you (for whatever reasons) are one of those who dislike perfectly sane system() calls to binaries, then go for >> man 7 inotify	23:22
mgedmin	ooooh	23:25
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: ??	23:39
mgedmin	nice solution to the problem	23:39
mgedmin	I'd no idea inotify had "close_wait"	23:40
DocScrutinizer	thanks :-D	23:40
mgedmin	*close_write	23:40
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DocScrutinizer	I just hope lardman will read the backscroll	23:41
DocScrutinizer	I'd hate to know there's another polling battery hog app out there	23:42
mgedmin	ooh, I know! why don't you ask infobot to give lardman a message when he joins the channel ;-)	23:42
DocScrutinizer	LOL	23:42
DocScrutinizer	he'd probably not even notice it has changed	23:43
DocScrutinizer	btw he's still here	23:43
DocScrutinizer	just afk it seems	23:43
djszapi	Does anybody have experience with meego and rpm packaging ?	23:44
djszapi	Could someone make me a version update in a package ? I could help with Harmattan packaging back.	23:44
* infobot hits mgedmin with a cushion		23:45
mgedmin	ow	23:45
DocScrutinizer	hah, just noticed inotify-tools is available for fremantle as well :-D	23:53
DocScrutinizer	\o/	23:53
DocScrutinizer	alas there's no similar knotify-tools that I'd know of	23:53
DocScrutinizer	which really is kinda strange, you'd think some kernel hacker must have written this for testing kobjects/knotify implementation back when they got this into kernel	23:57
DocScrutinizer	forgot to add "kevents" to the buzzword list	23:59

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