IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-07-27

RST38hwhat version of qemu should I install and from where?00:00
RST38h(none of this stuff appears to be documented btw)00:00
kimjuii  qemu-user-static  0.14.50-2011.03-1-0ubuntu2  QEMU user mode emulation binaries (static version)00:01
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kimjuI had to install that manually (on ubuntu 11.04)00:01
RST38hscratchbox-devkit-qemu is already the newest version.00:01
RST38hno such package00:02
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RST38hshit , this proves to be way more complicated than I thought =(00:03
kimjuon the sdk site there is links to some tarballs too. I preferred to use the packaged version00:04
RST38hokit was not obvious but I did it00:06
RST38homething wicked happened resolving ''00:07
RST38hand the same thingfor each harmattan repo00:07
RST38hnaaah, it does not start00:15
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RST38hhas anyone managed to run this stuff successfully?00:17
rm_worki ran the SB installer on my ubuntu natty machine00:20
rm_workand it installed everything fine,00:20
rm_workincluding qemu / xephyr / etc00:20
rm_workwas able to run a session and launch an app00:20
rm_workafter which i immediately shut it off and just used my device anyway00:20
rm_worki've been coding on-device most of today and last night00:20
RST38hand compiling too?00:21
RST38hI managed to boot the desktop in X86 target now, but qmlviewer complains about missing dbus and quits00:21
mgedminif you're developing a qml app, I recommend qt creator00:22
mgedminit's android-level easy00:22
mgedminhit a "run" button in the ide, it builds a .deb, deploys it over ssh over wifi, and runs it on your n95000:23
mgedminI believe it also supports integrated debugging, although I haven't tried00:23
mgedminof course if you've got a preexisting .deb package, I've no clue how to make qt creator play nice with it, or if that's even possible00:23
RST38hI am acquainted with Android dev now, it is not "easy"00:23
RST38h"Messy" would be a better word.00:23
mgedminwell, I'm not acquainted with android00:24
mgedminI've played with it for 5 minutes, thought it was a bit more polished than scratchbox00:24
RST38hIn a nutshell, it is Symbian rewritten in Java00:24
mgedminI'm not acquainted with symbian either :)00:24
RST38hI guess, Harmattan desktop sources are not public? :)00:26
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mgedminwho knows?00:31
mgedminwhat are 'desktop sources' -- meegotouch home screens?00:31
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mgedminbrain not working...00:39
mgedminwhat's the screen size of a n950?00:40
mgedminxwininfo -root tells me it's 85400:44
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macmaNit takes less time to google it than it takes to write the question here00:48
mgedminbut the answer is wrong :)00:48
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MohammadAG854*480 me thinks00:50
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mgedmin\o/ ccache \o/01:01
mgedmincrud, couldn't fix the window size flicker on startup01:06
mgedminand couldn't add a "fullscreen" button to the toolbar.xml either01:10
lcukserious question, could symbian be made to work inside a virtual machine on harmattan?01:21
lcukie virtual s6001:21
lcukor whichever is the required version01:21
SpeedEvilIt would be interesting!01:21
DocScrutinizerwell, a special qemu shouldn't expose any showstoppers01:23
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders what became of vmware for arm / N90001:24
* vandenoever is running a plain Qt application and getting a gray bar below the application, any way to remove that?01:24
DocScrutinizerI guess that's the space for status bar supposed to show up on top01:25
mgedminvandenoever++, I want to know too01:25
macmaNDocScrutinizer: at least there's a wine build now. that took a while.01:25
antman8969that gray bar is the toolbar menu01:25
antman8969use qml!01:25
DocScrutinizerhah, sure01:25
DocScrutinizertoolbar without any tools01:26
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antman8969I didn't say it was a USEFUL toolbar01:26
antman8969the kind that just takes up space01:26
vandenoevermy widget uses QWidget, i dont want to port it, that would be a huge task01:26
* DocScrutinizer neither01:26
antman8969you can use QWidget in qml01:26
antman8969theres a tutorial somewhere01:27
ieatlintyeah, you can, but it's considered a bad idea01:27
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antman8969lol well so is not using qml.... ok I'm not being helpful I'm sorry01:28
* vandenoever is running warptree on his n950, performance is great, but it's a qwidget01:28
* macmaN *still* doesnt know the difference between all these01:29
* mgedmin doesn't even know how to tell what is what -- fbreader is using qt4, that's all I know01:29
antman8969lol it's all qt401:29
rm_worklol well01:30
SpeedEvillcuk: I wonder if there are any binary compatible chipsets, so wine, not qemu would work.01:30
vandenoeverso this toolbar, how can it be turned off?01:30
rm_workI have the same problem with pyRadio, big grey bar, since it uses PySide Qt4 libs01:30
antman8969i'm guessing using the meegotouch libraries01:30
antman8969but those are deprecated01:30
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ieatlintin short: the whole dev environment is a clusterfuck01:31
mgedmins/dev environment/platform/, I suspect, but then I'm a dour pessimist01:32
ieatlintnah, it's more the conflicting dev environments and similar01:32
antman8969pretty much01:32
vandenoeverhiding some of the QApplication::topLevelWidgets() does not help01:34
antman8969yea i'm pretty sure the answer doesn't lie in standard Qt01:34
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ieatlintit's truly a: 1. don't use qwidgets, they won't work. 2. don't use mtf, it's deprecated (but you can use it, it'll work). 3. use qml and the non-portable harmattan qml components. they'll probably work, but you'll never be able to port your app01:34
antman8969yes... but 3 is exaggerated01:35
ieatlint(and by qwidgets not working, i mean they don't provide any style sheets, and certain widgets are so horribly not touch friendly that they are completely unusable)01:35
antman8969if you stick to com.meego in the QML the app isn't hard to port at all01:36
antman8969from another QML01:36
mgedminso, if I've got a desktop app that uses qt 4, and I don't know qt myself, and I don't know qml, where do I start?01:37
mgedminhello world qml tutorial?01:37
mgedminwrap the custom qt classes of that app as some sort of components and use them in my hello world qml app?01:37
mgedminother things I don't know at all include meegotouch and qt widgets01:38
mgedminor was that qwidgets01:38
ieatlinttheoretically yes, but you're biting off a HUGE task01:38
mgedminmy ignorance is just staggering01:38
antman8969imo... learning QML is very easy and very fast, and making a Ui with it is even faster01:38
vandenoevermgedmin: which desktop app?01:38
antman8969you can use the same application logic01:38
ieatlintyes, you can pick up qml in a week or two if you don't hit any walls01:39
mgedminvandenoever, fbreader01:39
ieatlintbut when you get into more complicated things, like embedding qwidgets into qml, you'll have a lot more trouble01:40
mgedminyeah, my other goal is to port a pygtk app to a n950 ;)01:40
lcukmgedmin, is it written in qt4 or is qt4 just a shim around the library code?01:40
mgedminalthough I plan to take a deep look at gpodder, since it managed to do that somehow01:40
mgedminlcuk, there's an abstraction layer on top of qt401:40
mgedminwith side-by-side alternative implementations for gtk, hildon, etc... that I intend to mostly ignore01:41
ieatlintyeah, so typically here you'd write a new implementation in qml and then have a non-gui qt4 backend to interface with the library01:41
mgedminnon-gui, mwahahahaha01:43
lcukmgedmin, shame you are not in #meego, we could have discussed a version suitable for any of the meego uxes01:43
mgedminI used to be in #meego, but didn't have the time to read what people were writing01:43
mgedminI'm still lurking in meego-dev@01:43
mgedminturns out without a physical device I can't make myself interested in a platform01:44
mgedminif it picks technologies I didn't like (rpm, qt)01:44
ieatlintharmattan isn't rpm :P01:44
mgedminharmattan is not meego :)01:45
SpeedEvilLurking here, and attempting to keep sorta-current is the limit of what I can bring myself to do ATM01:45
ieatlintthat gets far more complicated when you try to define what meego is :P01:45
jcharpakfbreader has a gtk+ based ui, a qt4 ui and a qt3 ui of all things01:45
mgedminlots more, I think01:45
mgedminit supports bazillion PDAs01:46
SpeedEvilfbreader would be awesome.01:46
SpeedEvilI use it a lot.01:46
mgedminthe desktop version mostly works01:46
SpeedEvilI hope you're not going down the route of scrolly bling ?01:46
mgedminit crashes on task switch -- a segfault in someclassIforgot->device()01:46
jcharpakbtw I'm fairly sure the maemo ui is gtk based,partially hildonized01:48
ieatlintmaemo5 is, maemo6/harmattan is not01:49
ieatlintthere aren't any gtk or hildon libs installed01:49
jcharpakwell yeah maemo6 version of fbreader doesn't exist yet, right?01:49
ieatlintoh, i'm not thinking clearly :)01:50
ieatlinti misunderstood what you meant01:50
jcharpaksorry lost context the maemo ui of *fbreader* is gtk based01:50
ieatlintyeah, i realized that after your comment01:51
lcukmgedmin, where is latest fbreader code?01:51
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jcharpakmy bad, typing using the vkb on my n80001:52
mgedminlcuk, that's an ambiguous version01:52
infobotmgedmin meant: lcuk, that's an ambiguous question01:52
mgedminupstream's latest is on github01:52
mgedminmy latest .debs are at
mgedminthey've the same level of functionality as fiferoboy's, currently01:52
lcukmgedmin, i have liqbook01:53
lcukpondering since fbreader has been ported to many uis01:53
lcukif it would be feasible to do a liq* ui01:53
mgedminbut I have a source .deb you can dpkg-buildpackage01:53
lcukthen it would work on all maemo/meego etc01:53
mgedminyeah, I haven't looked deeply into fbreader's code01:53
mgedminI'm sure it's possible, given the number of platforms fbreader's already been ported to01:53
lcukwhere on github?01:54
jcharpakupstream has mostly  given up on linux and seems to be mostly working on his port to android01:54
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mgedminthat's where the most users are, I suspect01:54
ieatlintdon't say that, you're ruining our blindness to the outside world01:55
mgedminwouldn't it be nice if harmattan could run android apps?01:55
ieatlinti seem to recall a lot of effort to get the n900 to run some android apps01:56
jcharpaknitdroid apps work, mostly, calls don't :)01:57
ieatlintalien dalvik01:57
ieatlinti suspect we'll see something do the job, but it'll be so painfully slow that it's not practical01:59
* lcuk goes to bed to read more niven02:03
lcuknn \o02:03
mgedminwhat are you reading, lcuk?02:04
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lcukmgedmin, prequals to ringworld02:04
lcukthen for the first time in years, ringworld :)02:05
* lcuk is looking forward to it02:05
* mgedmin has read ringworld, but no sequels or prequels02:06
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SpeedEvilI recommend 'protector'02:08
* mgedmin liked the mote in god's eye best from all niven's output, IIRC02:09
SpeedEvilThat was niven/pournelle02:09
mgedminauthor collaborations break my mental model of books, damnit02:10
SpeedEvilBaen free library. Assorted SF.02:10
mgedminalso, more freely redistributable stuff02:10
mgedminbaen has sane DRM policies, i.e. no DRM at all02:11
SpeedEvilI also use #ebooks over on undernet to get copies of books I own in hardcopy as ebooks.02:11
SpeedEvilAlso no DRM.02:11
SpeedEvilThough only books I actually own.02:12
SpeedEvil(including those that I've bought that I can't rea because they have DRM)02:12
* SpeedEvil sighs and wishes he could find a nice CO2 sensor. (to measure expired CO2 for metabolic rate computation.02:14
SpeedEvilerr - mischa02:14
mgedminwhy doesn't the n950 come with a CO2 sensor, really? :D02:14
DocScrutinizermgedmin: because it's not designed by me :-D02:15
vandenoeverSpeedEvil: you have one in your body02:15
SpeedEvilvandenoever: I know. Unfortunately, I have no easy way of reading it. I can maintain my weight well, when I'm not active. But I have real difficulty working out how many calories I'm burning when doing random stuff like picking rasperries or ...02:16
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I'm *sure* you can get fairly exact air CO2estimations when you know about air's original CO2 on breath intake (should be ~0%) and blood saturation that's easily obtainable with those IR clips aiui02:18
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SpeedEvilYou can't. Blood oxygenation (carbonation is harder to measure) does not closely track. Bloodflow - for one - compounds it.02:19
SpeedEvilHeartrate is a not-so-good proxy that I should probably do instead.02:20
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mgedminbrainnotworky, sleeptime zzzz02:24
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: recal that face color detection?02:26
SpeedEvilYou mean tracking heartrate and breathing rate through differential colour on exposed skin?02:26
DocScrutinizeryo, as a first shot02:27
SpeedEvilIn principle possible, in practice not really in this app.02:27
SpeedEvil(at least for me)02:27
DocScrutinizerjust wild brainstorming - felt like it :-)02:28
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DocScrutinizergiven the premise you already looked for CO2 sensors, so I won't uselessly duplicate your work02:29
DocScrutinizerusually you find the better chips than me ;-)02:29
SpeedEvilIt woul be an interesting add-on to the camera - informed by the face-tracking, also pop up a little heartrate balloon next to the person.02:30
* DocScrutinizer glares to left: N950. To right: Torx-TX6 and other tools02:37
* DocScrutinizer ponders02:37
TronicNow, did the agreement say anything about physically disassembling the device?02:38
TronicLooks like you could get to the battery by opening those four T6 screws.02:38
DocScrutinizerthose are TX-402:39
TronicOk, couldn't tell by eye.02:39
DocScrutinizerbeen there :-D02:39
DocScrutinizerfollowed achipa's unboxing instructions faithfully :-D02:39
DocScrutinizernot really, the screws are still available02:40
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* vandenoever ported warptree to n950 would be interesting as a touchfriendly file selector02:54
vandenoevermust be run as '/opt/dirview/bin/dirview' atm02:54
realsportcarswhat is this deb?02:54
vandenoeverbasically this:
vandenoeverwith drag you move to different folders, if an image is selected, it shows up in background02:55
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vandenoeverif you pass '/' as argument, you can see all your files03:02
realsportcarsDoes an official "repo"  exists?03:02
* vandenoever is very suprised by the performance03:02
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antman8969i've compiled libouath and liboauth-dev for harmattan (without curl) if anyone is interested03:11
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antman8969wish qtcreator would actually use my rules file like it promises it will...04:09
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rm_youplease vote for this package...07:44
rm_youbeen sitting there for weeks now07:44
rm_youneeds to move to extras...07:44
* Stskeeps downvotes :o07:44
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* rm_you kries at Stskeeps 07:44
rm_youthis 10 votes thing is so painful now07:46
rm_youwith so few people paying attention to extras-testing...07:46
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# lsof|grep bme07:59
DocScrutinizerbme_RX-71 2929        bme  cwd   unknown                            /proc/2929/cwd (readlink: Permission denied)08:00
GAN900Ooh, I like it when an icon concept can be salvages.08:00
* DocScrutinizer looks for good sledgehammer selling websites08:01
GAN900fiferboy suggested dropping the aperture down to f/22 or so.08:01
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# ps |grep bme_RX08:04
DocScrutinizer 2929 bme      /usr/sbin/bme_RX-71 -u -l syslog -v 5 -c /usr/lib/hwi/hw/rx71.so08:04
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# strace -p 292908:04
DocScrutinizerattach: ptrace(PTRACE_ATTACH, ...): Operation not permitted08:04
rm_youdevelsh / devel-su combinations not help?08:05
rm_youGAN900: let me know tomorrow what the plan is on that08:05
rm_youGAN900: since i was going to help, and all :P08:05
rm_youbedtime now tho08:05
* rm_you sleeps08:05
GAN900rm_you, night.08:05
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# i2cdetect -y 208:05
DocScrutinizerError: Can't use SMBus Quick Write command on this bus (ISA bus?)08:05
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# i2cget -y 2 0x55 0x02 w08:06
DocScrutinizerError: Read failed08:06
DocScrutinizera HUGE sledgehammer08:06
DocScrutinizerrm_you: nope08:07
DocScrutinizerat least I'm out of ideas what to combine in which sequence, to further escalate permissions08:08
DocScrutinizerI can run all binaries, but obviously not access all domains, neither reading nor writing08:09
DocScrutinizerdead end08:10
DocScrutinizerI'm tempted to switch off the device and stow away in attik. Fetch it when there's a way to get ***root*** rights on the crap08:12
Stskeepsor send it back in developer programme circulation08:12
Stskeepsso others can have use of it08:12
rm_youDocScrutinizer: just crack aegis08:13
rm_youyou win.08:13
rm_youif the right people put their minds to it, i imagine it shouldn't be TOO hard08:13
rm_youi mean, pretty much every scheme involving any sort of master auth key has been cracked AFAIK08:14
rm_youanywho, seriously off to bed now08:14
npmthere are some issues beyond the documentation that may be affecting some aegis usage08:23
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npm .... enjoy...10:24
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, develsh -c /bin/ash?11:30
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seifhey guys11:46
seifis there twitter support coming anytime soon to the n95011:47
hiemanshuyes, as soon as a new image is launched11:47
hiemanshuatleast thats what I heard11:48
seifhiemanshu, leaves us with the question when i the next one coming out11:48
hiemanshuthat one no one knows :P11:49
dcarr_homes/knows/can disclose/g11:50
hiemanshuits the same to us :P11:51
vandenoeverif someone feels like testing a nice puzzle game for n950:
hiemanshubut there was a hint at one in the next two weeks11:51
harbaumvandenoever: Please start a wiki page or similar with links like this11:52
vandenoeverharbaum: on ?11:52
harbaumvandenoever: Also i trie dot implement the "up one dir by left swipe". This is not possible due to qml limitations :-(11:53
harbaumYes, why not? I'll add my stuff as well11:53
vandenoeverharbaum: that's a shame about the swipe problem, do events not bubble up, is that the limitation?11:54
harbaumI can make events be forwarded, but if i forward the pressed events, then the release events aren't delivered anymore11:54
harbaumSomething about "mouse focus" i've been told. They want me to implement a special mouse area in c++ for this. But that doesn't mke much sense if i want to write a universal file selector11:55
vandenoeverharbaum: yeah, that's not pretty11:56
harbaumIt's nice, they said "you can do everything in qml since you can extend it with c++"11:56
harbaumLike in "you can go as fast as you want with your car since you can always go by plane"11:56
vandenoeverharbaum: there's always the webview ...11:57
harbaumYeah, offloading also saves memory, cpu, battery etc ....11:57
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thpharbaum: nice file selector :) did you do that?12:23
harbaumdo you want it?12:26
harbaumit's partly derived of the "SelecitonDialog" and the File Browser of the qmlviewer12:28
vandenoeverharbaum: does it use model/view?12:30
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harbaumFileListModel and ListView12:31
infobotharbaum meant: FolderListModel and ListView12:32
thpharbaum: you should publish it as standalone lib / code drop somewhere12:34
thpdon't need it right now, but might come in handy in the future :)12:34
harbaumis there a place for qml code snippets like this?12:34
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thphmm i'm not sure. just create a small git/hg/bzr repo and push it on github or something12:37
harbaumnah, noone would find that12:37
khertan1someone have port osc to harmattan ?12:37
khertan1someone have packaged pyside-assistant for harmattan ?12:38
Stskeepsi wonder if aegis restricts chroot12:38
khertan1someone say it does12:39
khertan1but didn't remember who :12:39
khertan1qole i think12:39
vandenoeverharbaum: wiki for snippets perhaps12:41
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vandenoeverhas anyone tried 3d qml on n950 yet?12:45
khertan1maybe i should post mine12:50
harbaumPerhaps this will lead to one12:50
khertan1ouch ... your qml is complex12:50
khertan1did you keep the last opened directory ?12:51
harbaumThe animations ....12:51
khertan1grrr gitorious doesn't seems to be up12:51
djszapigitorious is like that quite often.12:51
khertan1a bit too much currently12:52
khertan1and github is closed source ... i prefer promoting and using opensource solution12:52
djszapithere are gazillion other ways12:53
khertan1djszapi: indeed ... :)12:53
vandenoeverkhertan1: +1 on foss git repo12:55
vandenoeveri added a link to fileselector i wrote, it remembers the subdirs that you visited12:56
vandenoeverso if you go up, you are at the prev position in the list12:56
vandenoevereh, i mean down/into a subdir you were previously12:57
harbaummine does that as well. nothing to remember explicitely, jut select the entry in the upper dir that has the same path as the folder you jst left12:57
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khertan1vandenoever: i mean when you instantiate a new file selector it go by default at the last location you were previously, not just, going to parent folder13:01
vandenoeverthe one i wrote does not remember positions between instantiations13:01
khertan1this video didn't show the new things implemented13:02
khertan1was made some days ago13:02
khertan1last version is available in gitorious/khteditor branch qml13:02
* vandenoever is watching, wondering if there's harmattan package13:03
khertan1noone build pygame for harmattan ?13:06
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MohammadAGkhertan1, is it me, or did you (at some point), sync navigation in KhtEditor with the music in the background? :P13:10
khertan1MohammadAG: lol13:11
khertan1MohammadAG: music was made by my nephew13:12
khertan1and no, there is no link ... i was recording the video with headset13:13
khertan1so didn't notice the sound arround before posting it :)13:13
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khertan1MohammadAG: maybe i should add some sound to the fileselector13:16
TronicHow are scratchbox bind mounts supposed to be setup? The installer creates them but the login script doesn't, so I need to reinstall scratchbox after each reboot.13:30
TronicPerhaps there is some other script for setting up the mounts?13:31
TronicAdditionally, and possibly related, is it possible to put scratchbox somewhere else then /scratchbox? For now I've accomplished this via a symlink and I wonder if this would be causing some trouble.13:32
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divanhmm, it's possible to add hotkey on layout switch for hardware keyboard: setxkbmap -model nokiarm680 -layout us,ru -variant ,cyrillic -option "grp:ctrl_shift_toggle"14:48
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Stskeepsgot n950?14:59
TermanaNo, but they have finally sent it :p14:59
TermanaStill waiting on a tracking number14:59
TermanaSpeedEvil, thanks :)14:59
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RST38hmeanwhile: Koreans produce $3m glow-in-the-dark dog15:03
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divanDoes anyone familiar with libaccounts/signon implementation on Harmattan? I see only one good implmentation - facebook stuff, but it's closed source(why, btw?). Seems like you'll need to do a lot of guesswork in order to implement own accounts plugin. :(15:08
djszapiI always forget the name of the browser on N950, can someone remind me, please ? :p15:09
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lcukmorning djszapi \o15:10
djszapiahh grob15:10
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djszapiheyhey lcuk :)15:12
khertan1zarlino: every property are signal on qml15:20
khertan1zarlino: example text property is onTextChanged15:20
khertan1font property is onFontChanged15:21
leinirdivan: yeah, i've got that same problem... been pondering on doing some stuff, but without docs it's... not exactly straight forward15:21
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zarlinokhertan1: oh didn't know that15:22
zarlinoso why some components do have signals in the docs?15:22
khertan1because no property related to the signal :)15:22
zarlinoi see15:23
khertan1and text isn't the most feature complete component :)15:23
zarlinobut still, I see in the QtCreator code completion many "on..." signals15:23
divanleinir, I wrote the mail to some developers in Nokia, asked whether we can get the sources of facebook plugin at least to use it as startup point and write tutorials on how to develop social plugins for Harmattan. At least, we've signed NDA already.15:24
zarlinomany of which could not be found the way you say15:24
khertan1zarlino: because heritance :)15:24
djszapidivan: leinir is out.15:25
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fralsdivan: doesnt accounts gitorious have examples?15:25
khertan1zarlino: like Component.onCompleted ?15:25
zarlinothank you khertan1 you shed some light15:25
khertan1your welcome ... reading the documentation help a lot :)15:26
fralsdivan: for NDA stuff i wouldnt discuss anything here ;)15:26
khertan1i ve started learning qml by example ... and documentation explain many dark things :)15:26
djszapifrals: :)15:26
zarlinokhertan1: I must have missed the docs explaining this naming convention...15:27
khertan1héhé ... the doc explain things so simply than when you know a bit some part of the language jumping some things that look like simple result in missing important information lost in well know things15:28
zarlinoa problem with this approach you don't actually have info on the signal, for example when it will fire15:28
divanfrals, yes, it has a couple of very primitive examples, mainly used as tests. So, it gives nothing for understanding the frameworks.15:28
zarlinokhertal1: I found by trial and error the "onTextChanged" fires when you close the virtual keyboard15:29
zarlinokhertal1: but I initially thought it would fire on each keypress15:29
djszapiElleo: any progress with a shared repository ? :p15:30
djszapibtw, What HTML5 video formats does Grob support? Is there some way to play Ogg Theora?15:30
zarlinokhertal1: so I found the docs somewhat lacking15:30
djszapiI was about to package libtheora..15:30
zarlinoops i wrote khertal1 but I meant khertan115:32
khertan1zarlino:  :)15:33
khertan1zarlino: the doc is far to be complete15:33
* djszapi is making a nice splitted vim package :)15:34
divandjszapi, with latest vim version?15:34
djszapidefine latest.15:35
djszapiI am not sure it has the bleeding edge patches.15:35
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divandjszapi, latest stable. 7.3 is ok :) Thanks.15:37
khertan1a working preview of khteditor qml edition is also available on my home project repository for harmattan15:38
djszapiI am wondering whether others also have issues with test cases in case of qemu while packaging something containing tests ?15:39
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djszapilcuk: do you have libqbase packages ? :)15:43
lcuklibliqbase you mean15:43
lcuk:) I only have the fremantle packages15:43
lcukand there are some xvideo integration and bugs to sort out15:44
lcuksgx is frustrating15:44
djszapiahh, I see =)15:44
lcukfixing them first on meego n900-ce before seeing if the patch will apply on harmattan15:44
lcukbug 13084 in meego15:44
MeeGoBotBug maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink15:44
Stskeepslcuk: since you're working on it, could you assign it to yourself?15:45
lcuksince harmattan is capacitive and closed source think better to fix on meego open version15:45
lcukStskeeps, i don't have a clue how to fix it15:45
lcukand keep hoping somebody who knows will take it15:45
lcukbut sure, assign it to me since you aren't able to advance it15:46
lcuksince it effects playing default video in n900-ce15:47
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fiferboyAnyone interested in testing some apps could add my repo:
fiferboyLexicon is a word look-up and definition app and is pretty well finished16:14
fiferboyGeoSnap tacks a GPS track for use in geotagging photos (or whatever else you want)16:14
fiferboyIt needs some UI changes to export projects easily, but is pretty fully function16:15
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djszapivgrade: interesting, I am getting again rpc timeout even for the smallest packages.16:16
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Arkenoiwill e7 keyboard fit to n950? they look similar but i doubt about buttons size16:34
divanoh, nokia engineers responded on my request regarding closed facebook plugins. They told it uses Nokia only authentication and it's proprietary. But proposed to share (under NDA) some code snippets for other similar plugins.16:35
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divanBTW, I guess we need some frontend app for packrat :)16:36
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TermanaThat seems like a pretty lame excuse. Could we just packet sniff it to see what interaction they are having with facebook?16:36
TermanaCouldn't we*16:36
divanTermana, I'm less interested in what namely they're doing with Facebook, and more for the well explained structure of sharing/chatting/news plugins to integrate it easily into Harmattan.16:38
Termanayeah, I was just commenting on what they said16:38
divanIn that context, I would be pretty happy with Picase plugin sources for example.16:38
divanfrals, I do not share!16:38
divanfrals, I just describe the politeness of Nokia engineers and their desire to help :)16:39
Arkenoiis usb host mode feasible on n950?16:42
harbaumat least the connector says "no"16:43
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Arkenoimaybe there is some ugly hack possible like on n900 :-)16:44
harbaummaybe, but that instantly decreases the number of possible users16:45
harbaumwith 250 n950 devices out there ther userbase for such a hack is probably 2-316:45
vandenoever+future N9 users16:45
fiferboyharbaum: That is 250 community device program users, there are lots distributed through different channels16:46
Arkenoiare there really just 250 of them?16:46
harbaumstill not the best setup for niche hardware solutions16:46
achipathe real question is how different the actual hardware is in that regard between N9 and N95016:47
fiferboyharbaum: Yeah, I'm not saying that necessarily increased the userbase significantly :)16:47
achipamight be the same, or might just as well not...16:47
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SpeedEvilThe connector doesn't really say no.16:48
SpeedEvilAt the moment, aegis is annoying16:48
SpeedEvilAs you need to - likely replace the kernel.16:48
SpeedEvilOr - at least - get 'real' root to screw with it.16:48
Arkenoiwhat is the name of xmpp telepathy plugin in harmattan repo?16:50
harbaumSpeedEvil: The connector is a usb b recepticle which is target mode only. OTG would be a AB-recepticle16:51
SpeedEvilIt's quite irrelevant.16:51
SpeedEvilYou can use the same scheme that the n900 or n810 does16:51
SpeedEvila 'reverse' cable.16:51
harbaumNo, that's what the physical connector sais about the capabilities of the device. A hacked kernel may know better ...16:52
harbaumthe n810 has a real ab connector16:52
SpeedEvilDo I mean 800?16:52
* SpeedEvil forgets.16:52
divanArkenoi, telepathy-gabble16:53
harbaumthe n800 imho had a mini usb, not a micro usb16:53
Arkenoidivan, thanx16:53
divanArkenoi, actually it's not a plugin, it's a provider. The conversations plugin for pure Jabber seems not available yet.16:54
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SpeedEvilKey aspects are - does the battery charger support inherently boost mode, or does it require external components. Similar question about the USB phy16:55
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rm_workvandenoever / fiferboy: answering both of your questions from like 20 hours ago: ~packrat17:13
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infobotwell, packrat is a cute little rodent that keeps everything it finds.
rm_workfiferboy: has a de-facto section list in one of the dropdowns17:13
rm_workvandenoever: basically a catalog of harmattan apps17:14
fiferboyrm_work: Ah, thanks!17:14
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rm_workno promises on whether those are technically valid17:14
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rm_workbut each of those are currently used by at least one package17:14
fiferboyrm_work: Both my packages are discoverble through there :)17:14
rm_workjust got through backlogs from YESTERDAY T_T17:16
rm_worksince i was away from my computer basically until i left work17:16
rm_workalso, pyRadio *actually* works now17:17
rm_worki was lieing before when i said it worked apparently17:17
rm_workbut 3.6.2 actually works17:17
rm_worki need to update to 3.9 upstream tonight though T_T17:17
razvanpetruwhere do you guys save writeable data for your apps?17:18
rm_worki think ~/.appname/ is appropriate17:19
razvanpetruis that equal to /home/user/MyDocs/.app ?17:21
rm_work^^ that one17:22
rm_workforgot about MyDocs17:22
razvanpetruI think I tried something like that, but QDir::mkpath failed to create a path with . in it17:22
* lcuk puts mind back to bug 1308417:22
MeeGoBotBug maj, Medium, ---, liquid, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink17:22
lcukcrap e-chan17:22
razvanpetruand... without . all my cached images pop up in the gallery app :D17:22
rm_workthere might be a way to block them from being picked up by tracker in the tracker config17:23
rm_workit shouldn't fail to create . folders17:23
rm_workyou might just try /home/user/.app17:25
rm_workit's a 2Gb EXT4 partition17:25
razvanpetruwell my db is < 1MB so no problem there17:25
razvanpetrubut my app didn't have write access to anything except MyDocs17:25
rm_workit is 3% used on my system <_<17:25
rm_workshould have access to /home/user?17:26
rm_worknot sure why it wouldn't17:26
razvanpetrudeveloper or user acct?17:27
rm_workyeah tons of .app folders there17:27
rm_workAH erm17:27
rm_workyou'll want to use something like ~/17:27
rm_worksince when you run it qtcreator it'll be developer17:27
razvanpetru~/.app :)17:27
razvanpetruI'll try17:27
spenaprazvanpetru, if you're using QML, check and
razvanpetruthanks ;)17:28
rm_workdunno if it will resolve ~/17:28
rm_workyou might have to figure it out17:28
razvanpetruspenap: using QML, but the backend is all C++17:28
spenapI see: it could be an interesting read for you, anyway17:29
razvanpetruhehe, I could just call QDeclarativeEngine::offlineStoragePath() and use that :P17:30
rm_workspenap: page appears to be empty?17:30
rm_work >_>17:30
razvanpetrualthough the Path object is much lower level than qdeclengine...17:31
spenapboth pages, rm_work ?17:31
spenapah, check the end17:31
razvanpetruworks for me in opera17:31
spenapthis (QML)17:31
spenaplooks like xchat breaks the URL17:31
spenapyou'll have to copy the URL by hand17:31
Arkenoidamn, where do i configure xmpp account on the harmattan? telepathy-gabble is installed but it is not on the list to "add account"17:32
rm_workgot it17:34
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razvanpetruwhat's the developer/user pass? :)17:44
divanArkenoi, I told you before, telepathy-gabble is just a provider for XMPP, it's not a harmattan Accounts implementation. I didn't see the implementation yet, and (guess)working on it.17:45
divanrazvanpetru, developer pass is generated via SDK Connecrivity Tool17:45
razvanpetruyeah, figured...17:45
razvanpetrubut user?17:45
divanrazvanpetru, I wonder too17:45
divanrazvanpetru, in /etc/passwd the password field for user is emoty17:46
infobotdivan meant: razvanpetru, in /etc/passwd the password field for user is empty17:46
razvanpetruentering twilight zone17:47
divanbut I'm not sure it's safe to change user password..17:47
razvanpetruso I did as rm_work suggested, used ~/.app as path... app works brilliantly17:47
razvanpetrunow I log in as developer and there is no ~/.app folder...17:47
razvanpetruls -a shows no .app inside ~/17:47
rm_workdivan: yeah, wouldn't recommend changing password for user17:48
rm_workit doesn't have a password, and isn't log-in-able17:48
rm_workyou can su to it tho17:48
divanrm_work, any idea how to het user password?17:48
divanrm_work, no, I can't17:48
rm_workyou don't want to17:48
rm_workand yes you can :P17:48
rm_worki do it all the time17:48
divanrm_work, do you use exec relaxed mode?17:49
divanrm_work, for aegis17:49
rm_workI ssh in as root and use "su user"17:49
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rm_worki don't even know what that is (relaxed mode, not aegis)17:49
divanahh.. that way..17:49
divanrm_work, I ssh as developer and then get root via devel-su17:50
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divanrm_work, yep ssh via root@ allows to do su - user17:50
qgilhi, I'm trying to 'connect' my Qt Creator project with gitorious. Is there somewhere a step-by-step guide or any docs?17:51
rm_workyeah never considered logging in as developer17:52
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rm_worksorry qgil, don't use git personally :(17:52
rm_workqgil: you having fun making your app? :)17:53
divanqgil, I used github, but seems that gitourious has much better integration with qtcreator. Should be intuitive.17:53
vandenoeverqgil: do you have a local git already?17:53
divanrm_work, I guess it's chess program :)17:53
rm_workyeah i saw the screenshots on G+ :)17:53
razvanpetrujust convince chessbase to port fritz and you're set17:53
vandenoeverif so you need to "git remote add $gitoriousurl"17:53
qgilI'm about to create the local git vandenoever but I wanted to check first if there was something I had to consider since the goal is to have that cvode in gitorious - I have never used git before  :)17:54
qgilrazvanpetru: we should also convince them to do it open source?17:54
rm_workoh vandenoever you're here now17:55
rm_workyou asked about a catalog of harmattan apps yesterday17:55
razvanpetruqgil: I would be happy with closed source also17:55
rm_workdid you get my note this morning?17:55
vandenoeverqgil: in your code dir do "git init;git add -A;git commit -a -m 'Initial commit'"17:55
vandenoeverthen connect to gitorious with above command17:55
razvanpetruconsidering they didn't port to any platform, it could be a differentiator17:55
qgilrazvanpetru: considering they didn't port to any platform, I would be wasting my time with them  ;)17:55
vandenoeverrm_work: not sure, what about?17:56
qgilthanks vandenoever will try now17:56
rm_workyou asked about a catalog of harmattan apps yesterday17:56
vandenoeverrm_work: ah, the pack rat17:56
vandenoeverit's opened in a tab, not looked to well, yet17:56
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qgilvandenoever: stupid question: the default directory offered for the git repo is the same dir as my app project - is that fine or should I better put it else where?17:57
rm_workif the repo is listed on the wiki17:57
rm_workit will be indexed there17:57
rm_workor I can add some manually17:57
vandenoeverrm_work: nice, so what's easiest way to install (deb -i ?)17:58
vandenoeverqgil: is this on your local file system? i'm not sure i understand the question17:58
qgilvandenoever: send the package attached in an email and open the attachment from the email client  :)17:58
vandenoeverqgil: :-)17:58
rm_workvandenoever: just click the install button in browser17:58
vandenoeverqgil: i dont have mail configured on the n950, i'm still testing the water for the extent of things i'll use it for17:59
qgilyes, my local git repo. Qt Creator offers to create in the same directory as my Qt Quick project, but I'm not sure if this is ok or will mess my project17:59
vandenoeverqgil: i'll use mass storage17:59
vandenoeverqgil: i have let qtcreator create the repo too and i think it just does the three commands i said (init,add,commit)17:59
qgilvandenoever: open browser, find the deb listed somewhere, click the deb link, proceed18:00
vandenoeverbut without the connection to gitorious18:00
vandenoeverqgil: ok, and in the right order when there are dependencies, no doubt18:00
razvanpetrurm_work, I think mkpath created the path as /home/developer/~/.app18:00
vandenoeveror add things to sources.list, i guess18:00
qgilI *believe* proper packages can define repos to be installed, but I'm not sure vandenoever18:01
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razvanpetruthis is what QDir expands the absolute path to... Qt, I am disappoint18:01
vandenoeveris "Beginning Nokia Apps Development: Qt and HTML5 for Symbian and MeeGo" good reading?18:01
vandenoeversince it's from 1.5 years ago, i guess it's outdated ...18:02
razvanpetruI bet it uses QWidget :P18:02
vandenoeverit does talk about meego18:02
* mgedmin suspects books like these are outdated before they get published18:02
vandenoeveryeah, i'm looking for a book of 15 euro to get free shipping of a usb cable :-)18:03
razvanpetrutry advanced qt18:03
razvanpetruby mark summerfield18:03
vandenoeverwell, on the Qt front, i know tons already18:04
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: develsh allows strace and lsof, but then again /bin/ash: i2cdetect: Operation not permitted18:04
razvanpetruhow the hell can QDir create a path like /home/developer/~/.app/filecache :-/18:05
razvanpetruvandenoever - then try something about WWII18:05
vandenoeverrazvanpetru: :-)18:05
vandenoeverqgil: thank, i bookmarked it18:06
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rm_workrazvanpetru: makes sense actually18:14
rm_workvandenoever: lol, from amazon?18:14
razvanpetrurm_work: this did the trick - QDir(QDir::homePath()).filePath(".app");18:17
mgedminrazvanpetru, have you considered using XDG paths, i.e. ~/.cache, ~/.local/share, ~/.config?18:19
mgedminI wonder if Qt has abstractions for them18:20
mgedmin(since the default locations can be overriden with environment variables)18:20
vandenoeverrm_work: yes, i settled for a book about modelling ontologies in rdfs18:20
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razvanpetrumgedmin - no, my other idea was to user tmp for the cache :)18:22
rm_workvandenoever: lol, get amazon prime18:23
rm_workvandenoever: soooo worth it... free 2-day shipping on EVERYTHING...18:23
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rm_workah :(18:23
rm_workif you have access to an email with a .edu extension, it's free :P18:23
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rm_worki love things that check TLD for student verification18:24
razvanpetruI don't think amazon will ship to me from Germany for free :)18:24
razvanpetrunow I pay 10 EUR/book18:24
razvanpetruSafari Book Online is good...18:25
razvanpetrumgedmin: AFAIK Qt doesn't know about those,  I think they may be OS-specific18:25
mgedminbeing OS specific is what makes them good abstraction targets, IMHO18:26
mgedmin"where should my app keep its cache files on this OS?"18:26
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razvanpetruQDesktopServices::StandardLocation has something18:27
w00tQDesktopServices::storageLocation is indeed what you're probably after218:27
razvanpetruyes, mgedmin was right :), there's even a QDesktopServices::CacheLocation18:28
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npmtry my package, and give me a clue on replacing COPY_DIR with something that doesn't copy all my .svn dirs
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npmmakes the package larger than expected by duplicating a lot of files18:35
razvanpetruthat's why I hate svn/cvs18:36
npmblame me... i helped hire the guy that wrote it :-)18:36
npmhe rescued my cat as part of the job interview :-)18:36
* rm_work still uses svn...18:37
npmhe was sick of it meowling... i guess that's why businesses normally use offices18:37
razvanpetruand I using SVN myself for work...18:38
razvanpetru*I am using...18:38
npmyeah a lot of people do. i think it needs better suport in qtcreator18:38
mgedminsvn 1.veryrecentversion has only one .svn subdir at the top of the tree, like everyone else18:39
razvanpetrureally? :)18:39
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razvanpetruI have <quite recent version> myself...18:39
mgedminspeaking of those, how do I tell dh_make to skip the .hg when it's creating an .orig.tar.gz?18:39
mgedminmy vim .orig.tar.gz is over 50 megs because I ran dh_make in a hg checkout18:39
mgedminupstream doesn't package point versions, and I did not want to untar 7.3.0 and apply 260 patches by hand18:40
rm_workmgedmin: i packaged vim a few days ago...18:40
mgedminrm_work, where?18:40
npmwhat's the syntax for replacing COPY_DIR found in a Makefile inside one's file18:40
rm_workit's in packrat18:41
npmjust COPY_DIR=...18:41
infoboti heard packrat is a cute little rodent that keeps everything it finds.
npmor something more18:41
mgedminI searched in c-obs, couldn't find anything, gave it a try18:41
mgedminand djszapi(sp?) also packaged vim late last night18:41
rm_workthis is why packrat should be in the topic18:41
infobotmethinks qt is TrollTech's QT library, available at http://www.trolltech.com18:41
rm_worki did it like... last friday18:41
rm_worknah, sunday18:41
* mgedmin didn't know about packrat18:41
mgedminoh, it's version 7.2 -- I've got 7.3.260 :)18:42
rm_workthen trump it :P18:42
rm_workfine by me18:42
rm_worki should get your repo in packrat18:42
rm_workespecially if you're going to have anything else in there18:42
rm_workis that the final path for it?18:42
mgedminI don't plan to remove anything, no18:43
mgedminbut I hope we'll get something like Maemo Extras, and all these little repos are going to become mostly obsolete18:44
rm_workaww yours doesn't have an icon :(18:44
mgedminI've some fbreader debs in /experimental/binary-armel18:44
mgedminyeah, no icon, blame me18:44
rm_workit shows up in packrat now BTW18:44
razvanpetrucan Harmattan's web browser still  install debs like in Maemo?18:45
leinirrazvanpetru: it can :)18:46
razvanpetruleinir: thanks, that makes updating rather easy I think...18:46
mgedminfbreader consists of maybe 7 debs, I'd rather not click on them one by one in the right order18:46
razvanpetrualthough there's probably a better solution...18:46
leinirOr, well, it can download them, and then you can launch them from the download list (once it's completed, tap on the item and it'll ask if you're sure and all that jazz)18:46
rm_workunfortunately it doesn't add repos via .install like maemo5 did, but it will install debs straight (no dep handling :()18:46
lcuklardman|gone, ping when you get back18:48
razvanpetrufails for me over web: downloads, says installing and then says installation package not found18:52
rm_worksomething must be wrong with the package18:53
rm_worki've had it work on 10+ debs18:53
razvanpetrunormally yes, but I just installed it with qtc :(18:53
rm_workif they have unresolved deps...18:53
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djszapi_Is there any package wishlist somewhere ?20:11
mgedminI've a private one in my mind20:11
mgedmine.g. pwsafe would be nice20:11
djszapi_are you fine with 0.2.0 or do you need newer version ?20:14
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mgedminI'm using 0.2.0 on my laptop20:17
djszapi_obs seems to be down this time20:17
mgedminand while it'd be nice to have a GUI, porting PasswordSafe from maemo5 to harmattan won't be trivial, I expect20:17
mgedminuh oh, I hope pwsafe's password integration will work with the web browser20:18
mgedminsince meego-terminal has no clipboard support20:18
DocScrutinizermgedmin: don't even think about it. AIUI passwords are agis' domain, and you'll probably have a hard time to plumb anything (else) to any authentication event20:21
djszapi_nobody started an IRC client yet ?20:23
dm8tbrssh+screen+irssi for me20:23
djszapi_I do prefer the Qt/KDE solution for it on this gadget.20:24
djszapi_without any server dependency.20:24
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: yeah, the benefits of off-board processing. A very special "web app"20:24
DocScrutinizer>>Nokia Developer Newsletter: Ovi Store tops 7 million daily downloads<< Number of maemo downloads per day == number of maemo downloads per month ;-P20:28
DocScrutinizer>>Microsoft Mango<< \o/20:29
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djszapi_btw why wasn't the "old" fremantle server used for harmattan purposes in case of c-obs? It has been constructed pretty well. The current Harmattan PC is nowhere close to that.20:33
DocScrutinizer>>Champion of the Month: Randy Arnold<< Congrats, texrat!20:34
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: what application do you develop for your N950 ?20:36
DocScrutinizererrr, USB hostmode20:36
DocScrutinizerthough this seems to become more and more an absolute won't_fly20:37
DocScrutinizerfist it seemed N9(50), due to more sane hw, had better chances to get USB hostmode than N900, but MSSF is killing the fun in it20:38
djszapi_if it compiles in scratchbox, just ship it xD20:38
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: this morning I tried to explore the hw a bit, using i2ctools. Alas once more it turns out without *real* root permissions (I.E. with aegis intercepting all things the MSSF team didn't think developers need access to) this doesn't pan out20:41
antman8969docscrutinizer, out of curiosity, what are you trying to accomplish?20:42
DocScrutinizerantman8969: ??? USB hostmode20:42
antman8969just logged in20:42
antman8969lol just saw you clndt do something20:42
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: are you politely offensing us ? :)20:42
djszapi_what is the exact problem ?20:42
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: not really, just whining20:43
antman8969I guess a better question would be: you seem to be doing a lot things that require true root access, do you have an ultimate goal in mind?20:43
djszapi_I hope the valgrind will work fine on the device. That is a bit critical question because it needs to have all the credentials for the applications it is used for.20:43
DocScrutinizertbh I somewhat accepted this won't work on harmattan, ever20:44
djszapi_"true root" access hahahaha20:44
antman8969lol an unfortunate distinction on this platform....20:44
DocScrutinizer~tell antman8969 about h-e-n20:44
djszapi_antman8969: you should really forget thinking of root/superadmin/whatever20:45
djszapi_it is not a unix workstation, it is a user device20:45
DocScrutinizerI'm just stating I need *all* permissions on this system, to do anything about USB hostmode20:45
antman8969lol thats why I was asking what it doc needed it for20:46
antman8969but I got his tell20:46
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: well, the "tcb" token is something I am not aware of that much.20:46
djszapi_upstart has it for example, but I think you can get it.20:46
djszapi_* cannot20:46
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: again, my device has a FAT PRINTING "DEVELOPER DEVICE" - it's not "user device"20:47
djszapi_Nokia did not care about 250-500 device users.20:47
djszapi_Also, you can flash your own kernel ;-)20:48
DocScrutinizerif it was a user device, then we probably all could start development on PC, and happily wait until N9 rollout to test if our apps work on the "user device"20:48
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: flashing my own kernel largely defeats the purpose to bring USB hostmode to "user device" - paradox, isn't it ;-D20:50
DocScrutinizerI need a user device that'S actually a developer device, to create some low level app that's meant to run on user devices20:50
DocScrutinizerdeveloping it for "own kernel" is kinda silly20:51
DocScrutinizertrying to develop it on a device that has the final tight user device restrictions is not going to fly20:51
DocScrutinizerI'm doomed20:52
djszapi_not really since you could turn off just the security from the kernel that way. Also, I think being able to turn off the security is not much any different. You will develop an application which can behave completely differently without security. Hence I am not getting your point :)20:52
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: the point is: Nokia doesn't decument ANY of the low level stuff I need to mess with, so I need to investigate by myself. This isn't feasible on a security restricted system.20:53
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: SDK team did not do a great job :)20:54
djszapi_at leats about the aegis documentation.20:54
djszapi_If you miss something from the SDK, just let me know and I can forward and boost it to the SDK team.20:56
DocScrutinizeryeah, you'd think there HAS to be a way to disable aegis, by setting a flag and rebooting. And this should result in a working harmattan that just refuses to run specially protected programs, like angry-birds, or maybe even phone stack20:56
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infobotlardman: please check, cheers DocScr20:56
lardmananyone know how I get infobot to stop telling me about a message?20:56
lcuklardman, by reading the logs :P20:57
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: This device is not designed without security. Hence turning off and writing application how it is not designed to be used is not really a good environment.20:57
* lardman now has internet at home! Rejoice! ;)20:57
DocScrutinizerlardman: I'm taking care20:57
lardmanthanks Doc20:57
djszapi_I know it might be worse for you, but will be way cooool for end users.20:57
lardmanonto other business, the odd packaging info that Qt Creator adds for Harmattan builds, how does one use that with dpkg-buildpackage?20:58
lardmans/odd/odd location20:58
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: I'm talking about investigating stuff that's definitely not available from Nokia as docs, and probably never will be. I'm *not* talking about developing app in an aegis-free environment. For illustration see my comment about i2ctools above20:59
SpeedEvillardman: Congrats!21:00
djszapi_ok but then gain, le me know what you do not find in the doc, and I can help with that by boosting it at the SDK team. :)21:00
djszapi_* again * let, etc :)21:00
lardmanSpeedEvil: not sure my wife is pleased mind you21:00
SpeedEvillardman: It can be restful to have it not working. For moments at a time.21:01
lardmanrestful yeah, not so good when you've just moved and need to lookup phone numbers, change addresses, etc21:01
lardmanglad to have it back anyway21:01
lardmanbbiab suppertime21:01
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: what is missing in the docs: schematics, explanation how to switch bq24153 to boost mode, how to mess with Mentorgraphics musb_hdrc core on a very low level, docs what's the real circuit around USB PHY...21:01
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djszapi_DocScrutinizer: Could you please send it to me in email ?21:02
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: that's probably the best chance I got regarding this issue, since ~2 years. Sure I will21:03
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: will take some time though, as I need to make sure my wording is elaborate enough to make clear what's the core problem21:04
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: and I'm pretty sure your SDK team has NFC about the things I ask for21:05
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: yeah, take your time :)21:05
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: probably not even SDK team has access to the documents that hold the info I need. And if they have, these documents are under NDA and SDK team must not help, even if they like to do21:06
Venemohey guys21:06
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: What bugs is that, why c-obs is using so lame hardware :)21:07
djszapi_compared to that what used.21:07
djszapi_* bugs me21:07
djszapi_and why they couldn't just re-use that server..21:07
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: it's like asking the manufacturer of your car about the engine controller firmware, as you want to patch it to give higher motor power21:08
Venemohow're you guys?21:09
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: well the SDK team leader was a Qt/KDE/Debian guy with well ... lots of skill.21:09
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: enabling USB hostmode really means messing with the hw with your arms in the guts to the ellbows21:09
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: just to give you an idea: on N900 we had to >> stop bme << to make hostmode work21:10
SpeedEvilAs another fun example - important docs were found on about 5 versions of the CPU datasheet.21:11
DocScrutinizermention this to your SDK team and they'l leave the room, running and screaming21:11
SpeedEvilDifferent bits of different versions.21:11
Venemohmm, Qt Creator just screwed me.21:11
Stskeepswas it good?21:12
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: do you still think it's worth sending you a mail about it?21:13
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: I fail to see why not..21:13
DocScrutinizerok then, I'll do it21:13
DocScrutinizerbut please take a video of the SDK tema's reaction when you ask them for schematics ;-P21:13
Venemoinstalled the newest Qt Creator nightly, and it says "No tool chain can produce code for this Qt version" about the Harmattan toolchain21:14
djszapi_I am a geek, I do not meet people, just mailing list :p21:14
Venemoachipa, maybe you know something about this?21:14
Venemodjszapi_ :D21:16
tommaVenemo, it tells you to add toolchain21:17
Venemotomma, all right, but how do I add it?21:17
Venemoit's installed by the Qt SDK, I guess it should be added already21:17
tommabut did you tell creator where it is?21:18
tommatoolchains -> add21:19
Venemonope, the old Qt Creator finds it automatically, but the new one doesn't21:19
tommait should be added automaticly but could be it is broken now21:19
tommaok it adds it after you add qt version21:20
Venemotomma, hm... which option should I select in the Add button? In the older Qt Creator it appears as "Maemo GCC", but there is no such option in the Add button21:20
tommajust press apply21:20
Venemostill not there21:21
RST38hOk, Qt SDK does not compile anything either21:23
Venemotomma, Tools/Options/Qt4 has the Harmattan API in the list21:23
RST38hAnyone knows how I am supposed to develop for this thing???21:23
RST38hWhen neither Scratchbox nor QtSDK work?21:23
Venemotomma, but the Tools/Option/Toolchains does not have the Harmattan toolchain and does not allow me to add it21:23
djszapi_RST38h: what is wrong about sb ?21:24
RST38hdjszapi: fails.21:25
RST38hQtSDK sows a dialog saying "Unable to create debian templates: dh_make failed (Unnknown error)21:25
RST38hWhen trying to run an empty project it says: :-1: error: Packaging Error: Command 'c:/qtsdk/madde/bin/mad dpkg-buildpackage -nc -uc -us' failed.Exit code: 121:25
djszapi_what fails in sb ?21:26
VenemoRST38h, when I ge thome, you could send me your stuff and I could try compiling it in my Qt SDK21:27
mgedminok, time to go debug some segfaults21:27
mgedminI hope I can figure out how to build an fbreader deb without stripping debug symbols21:28
RST38hVenemo: there is no "my stuff" there: I just created an empty QtQuick project and tried running it.21:28
RST38hAnd it fails.21:28
RST38hEpic fail for Qt folks, as far as I am concerned21:28
RST38hManaged to turn relatively tolerable SB know21:29
VenemoRST38h, worksforme......21:29
lardmanAnyone tried building a project created in Qt Creator in SB? What is the magic command line switch for dpkg-buildpackage to let it know where the "debian" dir is located?21:29
RST38hYes yes, workforyou21:29
antman8969on a usual install of sb, you shouldn't need to specify anything on  command line other than -rfakeroot to build21:30
fiferboylardman: ln -s qtc_packaging/harmattan debian ;)21:30
RST38hSB does not even see my host file system21:30
RST38hSB2 did, but there is no Harmattan rootstrap for SB2 =((21:30
djszapi_it is not true21:31
djszapi_you can mount it in bind mode andthere you go.21:31
lardmanfiferboy: is that how Qt Creator does it?21:31
Venemotomma, after removing the MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan target and re-adding it, it seems to work21:31
Venemotomma, thanks for your help :)21:31
fiferboylardman: QtCreator actually seems to copy it to debian rather than link21:31
VenemoRST38h, hmm...21:31
* mgedmin tries DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot -i21:32
lardmanfiferboy: interesting, thanks21:32
lardmanfiferboy: I'd expected some switch I didn't know about rather than wholesale copying...21:32
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deimosRST38h, why not compiling for desktop for apps that doesn't need harmattan apis ? The steps are here
Venemocan I use USB networking on the N950 at the same time I'm connecting my laptop to the internet through its modem?21:32
deimosRST38h, and Qt Mobility could also be compiled and installed on desktop21:33
RST38hOk, now it has hung in the Package manager21:33
fiferboylardman: Yeah, I always have to delete the debian directory QtCreator leaves lying around21:33
mgedminVenemo, you could do that on the N900; I haven't tried with a N950 yet21:33
Venemomgedmin, ok, I'll try21:33
mgedminfiferboy, lardman, Qt Creator uses a separate build directory by default, I think21:34
mgedminI've ~/src/qmlcompass with crevetor's project, and a ~/src/QMLCompass-build-harmattan with debian/, a Makefile and a bunch of .o files in it21:34
Venemomgedmin, hm, seems that it can't do this21:35
mgedmindebian/rules has these nice hardcoded full filesystem paths augh21:35
lardmanyeah true21:35
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Venemomgedmin, at least I can't find a way to enable usb network from the GUI without plugging out the cable and reconnecting it in "SDK mode"21:35
mgedminVenemo, Internet tethering on the N900 did not work via USB networking, but rather the N900 pretended to be a USB 3G modem when connected in "PC Suite mode"21:36
Venemomgedmin, yes, N950 does the same on "Sync and Connect" mode21:37
Venemomgedmin, but when in "Sync and Connect" mode, I can't seem to enable the usb network as well21:37
mgedminoh, I misunderstood your question!21:38
Venemomgedmin, I want to develop for the N950 while at the same time I'm tethering it21:38
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ineanHi everyone21:39
ineanI need to know UserAgent string for N950 and N9 ... Is there someone here with a N950 device ? :P21:41
Venemoinean, I have an N950, but I can't tell you right now. but if noone does by the time I get home, ping me and I will.21:42
ineanVenemo: Thanks21:42
mgedmininean, n950 is "Mozilla/5.0 (MeeGo; NokiaN950-00/00) AppleWebKit/534.13 (KHTML, like Gecko) NokiaBrowser/8.5.0 Mobile Safari/534.13"21:42
Venemothat's lots21:43
mgedminmodern user agent strings are made of insanity21:43
ineanOk, I suspect than for N9 will be s/N950/N9 ...21:43
mgedminRST38h, what I do for scratchbox is ln -s /scratchbox/users/mg/home/mg ~/scratchbox21:45
mgedminthen I put all my stuff in ~/scratchbox and it's right there in my home after I sb-login21:45
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RST38hmgedmin: Does it work?21:47
RST38hmgedmin: and what should I link? =)21:47
mgedminyou know your username better than I do :)21:47
* RST38h was already going to bring up the nfs share (!)21:47
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mgedminscratchbox can't see host system, but host system can see scratchbox21:47
mgedminthat symlink makes it easier for me to find the scratchbox subtree21:47
* mgedmin compares the size of the new .debs and decides they have debug symbols after all21:49
fiferboymgedmin: Yeah, I turned of shadow builds21:51
mgedminwhat are shadow builds?21:51
fiferboymgedmin: In QtCreator, telling it to build in a separate directory21:51
mgedminif I knew how to make QtCreator build fbreader, maybe I could use the integrated debugger...21:52
* mgedmin drools, then abandons hope21:52
* mgedmin gdb -ex run --args fbreader21:54
mgedminyes! a better traceback!21:54
Venemofiferboy, you turned them off...? it doesn't let me to turn them on at all :P21:55
mgedminI can execute only one gdb command, like bt21:57
mgedminbut I can't go up a stack frame and look at locals or whatevs -- "The program no longer exists"21:57
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fiferboyVenemo: Yeah, I don't know what logic lets you turn them on/off22:03
fiferboyVenemo: Did you create the project in the current QtCreator version?22:04
Venemofiferboy, nope22:04
Venemonah, I've just arrived, so I'll put the laptop to sleep now22:04
Venemowill be back later :)22:04
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mgedminwhy do I get a paint event when fbreader becomes invisible?22:19
mgedminthe stack trace ends at QApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) in /usr/lib/
fiferboymgedmin: fbreader controls the paint events itself, right?22:24
fiferboyOr does it use widgets to do that?22:25
mgedminI'm not sure22:25
mgedminI see uses of QWidget22:25
mgedmin(gdb) p myHolder.myFrame->isVisible()22:25
mgedminCouldn't find method QWidget::isVisible22:25
mgedminis this a gdb thing or what?22:25
mgedminmy current frame is in ZLQtViewWidget::Widget::paintEvent22:26
fiferboyDoes ZLQtViewWidget implements its own paint?22:26
mgedminsomething like that22:27
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fiferboyLooks like it handles its own painting22:27
mgedminAFAICS it's painting using QPainter into a pixmap, and then blits that pixmap onto the screen, after optional rotation22:27
mgedminI suppose isVisible is an inline function22:32
fiferboymgedmin: isVisible is a access function to the visible property of a QWidget22:32
fiferboyOh, I see you already got that :)22:33
npmthe "ready to be checked in version" :-)
fiferboymgedmin: ZLQtViewWidget inherits ZLViewWidget22:35
fiferboyI haven't found that in the git repo yet, do you see it?22:35
fiferboyAh, see it core/src/view22:35
mgedminZLViewWidget is in zlibrary/core/src/view/22:35
mgedminctags rule22:35
mgedminwhat happens if I put if (!isVisible()) return; at the top of ZLQtViewWidget::Widget::paintEvent()?22:36
fiferboyZLApplication (inherited by ZLQtViewWidget) has a isVisible function...22:38
qgilantman8969: ah you're here22:38
qgilmake[1]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop. make: *** [clean] Error 2 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2 The process "/home/qgil/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad" exited with code 2. Error while building project testdef (target: Harmattan) When executing build step 'Custom Process Step'22:38
* lbt follows22:38
lbtjust in case...22:38
* mgedmin wants rsync22:40
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qgilantman8969: thank you for all your patience - I think at this point it's better to go to the forum - I can't believe I'm the only one hitting these roadblocks between Qt Creator & Community OBS22:41
fiferboymgedmin: The ZLApplication isVisible function always returns true!?22:41
mgedminQML has this platformWindow.visible property22:41
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mgedmincan anybody translate QML to QWidget?22:41
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* lbt tries to follow qgil to the forum but hits the lack of an email bridge and watches from afar...22:42
qgillbt: how to setup Qt Creator to provide what the OBS wants: a tar.gz and a .dsc file22:43
fiferboyqgil: Hav eyou looked at Jaffa's mud2 script?22:43
fiferboys/Hav eyou/Have you/22:43
infobotfiferboy meant: qgil: Have you looked at Jaffa's mud2 script?22:43
qgilfiferboy: nope, URL?22:43
npmqgil: pls try my demo of some infrastructure
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lbtI don't have Qt Creator running qgil ... otherwise I'd have tried22:43
npmwill post forum page today22:44
qgillbt: just making sure that you can't blame the lack of email gateway in the forum  ;)22:44
fiferboyqgil: cd to your directory and run mud2 and it will create the files needed for OBS22:44
lbtqgil: I need to get some work done ... I will be around if you hit issues with OBS22:45
* fiferboy notes you should clean up your project directory first22:45
lbtthis is a real Qt Creator problem though ....22:45
qgilok, I surrend: in 36h I have started with Qt Creator, Qt Quick, COBS and git... learning how to get an actual executable from a git repo is in my queue22:45
lbtgood progress - what docs?22:46
npmqgil: why not start w/ QtSDK 1.1.222:46
lbtI really would hate to see the last step fail...22:46
lbtyou should have a .dsc somewhere22:46
npmoh COBS ...22:46
crevetorqgil: you're new to developpement ?22:46
npmi haven't got there yet22:46
fiferboyqgil: click "Raw blob data"22:46
lbtnpm: if dpkg-buildpackage works then you're ready for C.OBS22:46
npmneed to bug lbt about getting an account :-)22:46
qgilI have no problems with Qt SDK: it gets a package and injects it to my device. The extra hassle is to use the COBS instead of e.g. Ovi directly22:46
lbtnpm: what's your acct ?22:47
qgilcrevetor: the page you saw yesterday was my first non-WWW code ever22:47
npm(i have a feeling my life just got more complicated)22:47
lbtnpm: ... and "hey"22:47
mgedminfrom what I've seen (briefly), Qt SDK hackety-hacks the debian build system to the point where it can build a .deb on _your_  machine, but not to the point where it could produce a .dsc22:47
crevetorqgil: qtcreator is good for creating packages without having to think but if you try to build packages from outside it's a pita.22:47
lbtmgedmin: oh, seriously!22:47
RST38htail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory22:48
RST38hdpkg-buildpackage: failure: tail of debian/changelog gave error exit status 122:48
RST38hPackaging Error: Command 'c:/qtsdk/madde/bin/mad dpkg-buildpackage -nc -uc -us' failed.Exit code: 122:48
RST38hHow do I fix THAT in QtSDK?22:48
antman8969hey now, I thought we got this resolved22:48
RST38hnot here22:48
crevetorqgil: if you want to build a package with cobs from source generated by qtcreator : copy the directory where your project is, cd into it and do qmake22:48
npmqgil: i found reading the resulting Makefile and also turning on debugging (commented out in default .pro) helpful22:48
lbtRST38h: FDISK22:48
RST38hlbt: Sorry?22:48
crevetorqgil: then ln -s qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan debian22:48
lbtRST38h: any problem starting c:/....22:49
crevetorthen dpkg-buildpackage -nc -us -uc -S22:49
npmcrevetor: thanks22:49
crevetorit should generate a tgz and a dsc in the parent directory that you can upload in cobs to build22:49
mgedminthing is, Qt Creator's debian/rules does no building, just a make install22:49
rm_workyeah QtCreator builds debs on windows machines O_o iz crazy22:49
qgilthank you very much for all your help but I have been following recipes since I can to the office at 7am (6h ago) - now I need lunch and get something done  :)22:50
mgedminand it generates a Makefile full of absolute pathnames when you build22:50
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lbtqgil: crevetor's suggestion sounds *very* correct22:50
mgedminmaybe if I disabled shadow builds it'd be a bit more sane?22:50
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RST38hlbt: Ok thanks22:50
qgilantman8969: crevetor just shared a different method and now I'm not sure what/who to follow22:51
lbtRST38h: sorry ... just having fun22:51
RST38hAnyone has a better suggestion?22:51
qgiland fiferboy shared a third one  :)22:51
mgedmine.g. the build rule for qc_res.cpp is22:51
mgedmin/opt/QtSDK/Madde/targets/harmattan-nokia-meego-api/bin/rcc -name res ../qmlcompass/res.qrc -o qrc_res.cpp22:51
antman8969well If it calms you, I'm usiing my method right now qgil22:51
mgedmingood luck finding /opt/QtSDK/Madde on the OBS builder22:51
antman8969i'm sure theres overlap22:51
qgillunch time for me22:51
* RST38h googled but just found other people hitting the same problem22:52
mgedminmake install_desktopfile:22:52
RST38hNo answrs on how to fix it so far =(22:52
mgedmin        -$(INSTALL_FILE) /home/mg/src/qmlcompass/QMLCompass.desktop $(INSTALL_ROOT)/usr/share/applications/22:52
mgedminyay /home/mg22:52
mgedmingood luck finding _that_ on the OBS builder22:52
crevetormgedmin: that's why I used qmake in the original source dir (not the build dir) otherwise it generates crap22:52
antman8969^^ that22:52
RST38hAm I supposed to CREATE the changelog? If so, where?22:52
antman8969standard debian packaging! a debian driectory goes on the top level of your project22:53
crevetormgedmin: are you adding stuff to qmlcompass ?22:53
antman8969debian/changelog is the changelog22:53
mgedmincrevetor, not any more22:53
RST38hantman: when I create it, QtSDK still fails22:54
mgedminI jumped on it because it was a perfect way to try out Qt Creator22:54
npm makes good programming music for a Finnish phone22:54
RST38hComplains of foreign stuff in debian22:54
antman8969is this a newly created project?22:54
mgedminmore fun than a hello world, anyway22:54
antman8969and you have a qtc_packaging directory that it made for you too right22:54
antman8969the new directory is paralelle to qtc_packaging, called debian, correct22:55
mgedminwell, if (!isVisible()) return; did not help prevent segfaults22:55
mgedminthe widget thinks it's visible22:55
npmi just had qmake puke on my changelog... it didn't like multiline changes so i just smashed em into big long lines and it worked22:55
RST38hBTW it also says "tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory"22:55
antman8969did you delete it from the qtc_packaging by any chance?22:55
RST38hWait, no , says this: which: pgp: unknown command22:56
RST38hno I did not22:56
antman8969what I'm getting at is, as long as you leave the QtCreator files alone and don't change your config, adding a debian dir shoudln't cause any problems22:56
antman8969as long as you don't add the dir to your .pro file22:56
antman8969at least it's not (and has never) for me22:56
RST38hantman:thank you, but I have not touched any files22:56
RST38hjust created a new project and tried running it22:57
RST38hcan do it once again22:57
RST38hdone it twice now22:57
antman8969lol well i'll listen if you up for it, wasn't there the fisrt two times22:57
antman8969got a little bit before the gtm22:57
* RST38h skipped onthe MingW installation (too large), maybe THAT was the reason?22:58
npmantman8969: i agree... there's a leftover 'debian' in and it doesn't break the build22:58
antman8969ooh mingw... i didn't know you were on windows22:58
mgedminoh, *barf*22:58
antman8969lol well22:58
mgedminfbreader's sources assume a tabsize of 2!22:59
antman8969in theory it shouldn't matter22:59
RST38hmgedmin: just globalreplace with two spaces22:59
antman8969changlelog is very picky about formatting22:59
RST38hmgedmin: and commit it this way22:59
* mgedmin always uses dch to edit the changelog22:59
RST38hmgedmin: I am ok with this change, btw22:59
antman8969* uses emacs ;)23:00
mgedminRST38h, are you fbreader's upstream?23:00
npmi used emacs' changelog formatting, but because i had text in autowrap it crapped out. (next time i won't autowrap)23:00
RST38hmgedmin: no, but you are not committing upstream are you>23:00
antman8969yea, lots of weird issues with that..23:00
mgedminI've hopes of maybe submitting a patch someday if I can make it work on harmattan23:00
mgedminsmall steps23:00
RST38hmgedmin: naah, unlikely23:01
mgedmingdb is so similar to pdb, but there are treacherous differences23:01
mgedmine.g. 'u' is not shorthand for 'up'23:02
* mgedmin hates c++23:02
RST38hWhen creating a project says "Unable to create debian templates: dh_make failed (unknown error)"23:04
mgedminI love error messages that say "unknown error"23:04
* RST38h wonders how developers are supposed to use the tool giving such messages when creating an empty project23:05
RST38hAnd it too ~4GB of my disk space too23:06
ScifigIs anyone working on qmafw plugins?23:06
* mgedmin abandons gdb and tries running fbreader under valgrind23:07
fiferboyRST38h: Did you do the maemo5 interface on fbreader?23:10
RST38hfiferboy: Maintained it for a while23:12
RST38hfiferboy: Fixed power drain, added sensible settings, added scroll-by-drag23:12
RST38hOther things too23:12
fiferboyRST38h: I thought so23:13
mgedminvalgrinded fbreader crash:
RST38hmgedmin: well it is Qt not fbreader crashing23:14
mgedmindoes "Meego graphics system destroyed" mean all QPixmap()s become invalid?23:14
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fiferboymgedmin: Is the "MeeGo graphics system destroyed" happening when you swipe out?23:16
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mgedminso, QPixmap represents a server-side pixmap23:16
fiferboyHmm, and it is trying to paint after the graphics system is closed...23:17
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mgedmin"Note: When using the native X11 graphics system, the pixmap becomes invalid when the QApplication instance is destroyed."23:19
mgedminI don't know if that's relevant23:19
mgedminzlibrary is not destorying the QApplication it creates23:20
mgedminin fact it's leaking it explicitly23:20
mgedminI wish harmattan had -dbgsym packages like Ubuntu23:21
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fiferboymgedmin: At least you know where to look now, but I'm afraid I won't be much help with that23:27
mgedminI'm way in over my head23:28
mgedminlearning ARM assembly now23:28
mgedminI'm assuming r0 holds this, r4 is d23:31
mgedminisActive() returns true23:32
mgedmin[r4+0x58] is d->engine?23:32
mgedmind_func() is an inline function, since I see no call instructions?23:32
mgedminthere was an illegal read at 0x3b51c0f023:33
mgedminso d->engine was deleted?23:33
Arkenoido you guys use n950 as the primary phone? if yes, how do you deal with IM functionality being missing?23:34
mgedminand then there was an illegal read at 0x3b51c0f4 because the value read in the previous step was pointing to lala-land23:34
crevetorArkenoi: I do but I don't use IM on my phone23:34
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fiferboymgedmin: Can you tell if it is a Qt arm problem or the way FBReader is using painter?23:37
crevetormgedmin: you seem to now gdb quite a bit23:38
mgedmindo you have any other Qt desktop apps we could test?23:38
crevetormgedmin: how do you see content of memory at address x ?23:38
mgedminif they crash on swipe, that would point towards a Qt bug23:38
mgedminI don't know gdb all that well23:38
fiferboymgedmin: I am pretty sure someone said they had a Qt program that didn't crash on swipe23:39
mgedminp *(sometype *)0x123456?23:39
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piggzhow can i take screenshots on the n950?23:46
fiferboypiggz: Built-in camera ant two mirrors?23:47
fiferboypiggz: You can open the Boosted Widget Gallery and go to "Debug Tools" "Take a screenshot"23:48
piggzfiferboy: cool, cheers23:49
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mgedminalso, I've heard that ctrl-shift-p works and puts the screenshot in /home/user/MyDocs/.images23:56
mgedminso, QMLCompass (why is it in /opt/QMLCompass/bin with no symlink in /usr/bin, crevetor???) also prints those "Meego graphics system destroyed" messages, but doesn't segfault23:58

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