IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-07-20

rm_workdoes it aggrivate anyone else that you can't KILL a process?00:07
rm_workor IS there a way to actually say "close plz"00:07
khertanrm_work, ? you can kill a process ...00:13
khertanyes root can't kill user process00:13
khertanjust kill it as user00:13
Damion3ahh, you can turn off aegis00:21
Damion3that'll make debugging slightly easier00:22
Damion3now if I can use mount and chroot I should be able to get wine working00:23
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Mekyou can turn off aegis? only if you're a nokia internal with a R&D device I thought00:24
Damion3I have been using armel debian binaries from squeeze, stuff seems to work okay00:25
Damion3I just skimread an article about it and found what to echo to /sys/kernel/secu.....00:25
Mekwell, that won't work if you're device is not already in "open mode"00:26
Mekand that supposedly requires R&D certificates only internal nokia has00:26
Damion3this is not recommended, I just wanted to lazily copy some arm binaries up to run rather than package install00:26
Damion3I used devel-su develsh and the aegis-constrain mode open00:28
Mekaegist-constrain mode open will just tell you (by its exit code) that your device is not in open mode00:29
Damion3the previus firmware didn't need this, it let me run shell scripts in /home/user00:29
Damion3let me echo $?00:30
Mekaegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec might work for that00:30
Damion3I don't have aegis-developer-mode as an executable00:31
Damion3and $? was 0 on mode open00:32
Damion3maybe this device isn't the same as I'm waiting to receive through the dev programme00:32
kimjuprevious firmware? is there some other than the 22-6 publicly available? for the official hardware, not internal r&d devices?00:32
Mekah, if you already have something internal, then yeah, on the internal one you probable had an R&D image, have an open device etc, and can easily disable aegis00:33
Mekjust nobody outside of nokia will be able to do that00:33
Damion3kimju: I had one that didn't have developer edition all over it, it looked older00:33
Damion3but had games like angrybirds00:33
Damion3Mek: I assume dpkg can install stuff and update the hashes though?00:34
Meksure, yes00:35
Mek(although you can't upgrade existing nokia packages with your own packages without first removing the already installed one, AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN does not work)00:35
Damion3at the moment I just want to get perl threading stable so I can get dns tunnelling to work00:36
kimjuis there some limits that your own package cannot have some capabilities?00:36
MekI think someone was complaining that setgid for example was only allowed for nokia packages or something like that00:37
kimjuso far this purge with force-all, install my own package has worked for me.00:37
Damion3then work on qemu, wine and my gstreamer thing00:37
kimjubut I've only replaced meego-terminal and xkb-data so far.00:38
Damion3kimju: replaced it with what?00:38
kimjumy own patched versions.00:38
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Damion3such as?00:38
Damion3selecting text? urls?00:39
kimjunothing major yet, just trying to get the keymaps and toolbar keys into usable shape.00:39
kimjucopy-paste in terminal would be really nice to have.00:40
Damion3I X forwarded gnome-terminal and it was pretty useable00:40
kimjuand the code seems to have some support for that already00:40
Damion3yes 22:40 < kimju> copy-paste in terminal would be really nice to have.00:40
* Damion3 shows off his screen c+p abilities00:41
kimjurunning x forwarded terminal is not really a solution..00:41
Damion3yeah I was just seeing what it was like screensize/menu control-wise00:42
kimjuI wonder why the finnish (nordic-base) keymap on the device xkb data moves almost all fn+key symbols to different places.. I want to have a & o umlauts (ä & ö) with otherwise minimal changes to the us-keymap visible on the physical keys..00:44
kimjusame with the vkb, there is totally unnecessary changes between english and finnish layouts00:45
rm_workkhertan: in terminal sure...00:54
rm_workkhertan: i mean like on n900 when you go to task chooser you can hit the X and it ACTUALLY closes00:55
rm_workswype just "minimizes it" or something really00:55
rm_workit's still running00:55
lcukisn't there some sort of judo chop gesture that will close app?00:58
lcuks/judo chop/downward swipe/00:58
infobotlcuk meant: isn't there some sort of downward swipe gesture that will close app?00:58
rm_workdown-swipe makes it go to the background00:59
rm_worki feel like i'm on android all over again00:59
lcukjedi hand wave?00:59
lcuk"This isn't the app you are looking for"00:59
rm_workmight have to write an app that shows all currently running userspace apps00:59
rm_workand lets you kill them01:00
lcukthere is one01:00
lcukjust hold down the task switcher thingy01:00
rm_worknot "ps" and "kill"01:00
rm_workhold down what now?01:00
lcukit even has a button to close all01:00
lcukthe main task grid01:00
lcukjust press and hold01:00
lcukclose buttons come up01:00
lcukand also a "close all" button01:00
rm_workI DID THIS01:01
rm_workI SWEAR I TRIED THIS01:01
* rm_work needs a beer01:01
lcukperhaps we need to implement te vocal swearing detection thingy01:01
lcukso that when you swear at the damn thing it closes the app01:01
lcukor shake to close01:01
rm_worki want shake to re-nice +01:02
* lcuk wants to swipe through all running apps01:02
lcuki have done some experimentation in liqbase01:02
lcukand it would work nicely01:02
rm_workyeah, i assume it would01:02
rm_worklike maybe swipe UP should give task-switcher01:03
rm_workand swipe right should go through them01:03
lcukhaving editor open, swipe left use calculator, swipe right back into editor01:03
lcuklike we discussed for m6 proper ;)01:03
lcuki want to implement such a patch for regular meego01:03
lcukfor alt-tab switching01:04
rm_worktwo finger swipe01:04
lcukjust regular gesture is fine :)01:04
lcukalso prototyped01:04
lcukapps are on the whole not impacted01:04
lcukeven things like scrollbars at screenedges don't get in the way01:05
* lcuk has it by default in liqbase now and testing it01:05
rm_workwell yes but01:08
rm_workit wouldn't interfere with the default swype stuff if it was two-finger swipe left/right01:08
ieatlinthey... when people flash their n950s with the "one click flasher", how long does the erase stage typically take people?01:09
ieatlinti seem to recall it not being too long, but this time it's been sitting there on "erase, this may take a while" for a good 6 or 7 min01:09
rm_workis there a trick to getting the SIM holder out? >_>01:11
rm_workand does the phone need to be off?01:12
rm_workfsck, do i need a special tool to pop out the SIM?01:13
ieatlintrm_work: it's annoying01:14
ieatlintrefer to the setup guide for additional reference01:14
ieatlintyou do not need a tool, just fingernails01:14
rm_worki just broke a fingernail trying01:15
rm_worki'm about to go get a knife01:17
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GeneralAntillesSIM holder?01:25
GeneralAntillesComes up with a nail just fine.01:25
GeneralAntillesTake your calcium. . . .01:25
GeneralAntillesieatlint, 40 minutes for the whole thing was what I heard last.01:25
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Damion3I don't turn off my phone doing the sim01:25
GeneralAntillesrm_work, it took a SIM just fine when it was on01:26
GeneralAntillesdunno about removal.01:26
rm_workyeah i just got it01:26
rm_worklike JUST got it01:26
Damion3ieatlint: it took a worrying age for me but then did finish01:26
rm_worktook me 15 minutes, i used a knife01:26
rm_workeven looking at it now, not sure how i was supposed to get this with a fingernail01:26
rm_workGeneralAntilles: just had a blood test recently, my calcium is dangerously high <_<01:27
rm_worknot that you care :P just an interesting coincidence01:27
ieatlintyeah, it did finally go through01:27
ieatlintand it was closer to 25-30min for the full flash01:27
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GeneralAntillesThe mail client default to HTML doesn't it. . . .01:30
GeneralAntillesI also like how I can't switch to the full site in the browser.01:31
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djszapi_Did anybody package python3 yet ?01:57
DocScrutinizerrm_you: OMG01:57
DocScrutinizerrm_you: pulled out SIM with a knife? :-O01:58
DocScrutinizerrm_you: you push it in to unlock, and it comes out without any effort01:58
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, he's talking about the cover, I think.02:00
DocScrutinizermeh, the cover pops open on *pushing* basically, not pulling02:00
mgedminooh, I missed a most entertaining e-book vs real book discussion with DocScrutinizer last night02:00
DocScrutinizerso yes, you actually push both to finally pull them out02:04
DocScrutinizerthe cover was a bit hard to open first time, esp the latch that holts the thing to case though was even harder to close than to pull out a 1..2mm02:05
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DocScrutinizerHAH, and again the beast refuses to slide back again02:07
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mgedminwait, what? push sim cover to open? tricky! nobody told me! (<small>I didn't read the docs</small>)02:25
ieatlintanyone ever used a microsim to sim card adapter? do they increase flakiness?02:42
SpeedEvilThey aren't adaptors as such.02:43
SpeedEvilThey're spacers02:43
SpeedEvilThe contacts are the existing contacts02:43
ieatlintyeah, i realize that, just wondering if there are a bunch of crappy ones out there that shift02:43
SpeedEvilI converted a microSIM to a normal SIM by cutting it out of the card it comes in with a chisel.02:44
DocScrutinizermgedmin: well, it pries away towards the screen, it's not really like you'd lift it02:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: hey, toke me 5 reads to get that - nice :-)02:45
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ieatlintbah, it's always a good sign when a tmobile rep tells me that i should just cut my sim card in order to convert it to a microsim02:49
ieatlintapparently they don't have them at all here in the US02:49
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SpeedEvilieatlint: dealextreme has a little cookie cutter02:57
SpeedEvilOh - did I link
SpeedEvilSeemingly 2*18650 USB battery pack02:58
ieatlint yeah, i've seen that... will probably sit on it for now03:00
* SpeedEvil really wants 5kWh or so for solar.03:01
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GeneralAntillesieatlint, microsims?03:20
GeneralAntillesThey must.03:20
GeneralAntillesiPhone 403:20
ieatlintno iphone4 on tmobile here03:20
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GeneralAntillesOK, planning out all of these features is bullshit.03:59
GeneralAntillesFocus on the core, get it working, then add the bullshit.03:59
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rm_youwhy does anyone need microsim?06:36
rm_youn950 is specifically NOT microsim :P06:36
rm_youand yes it required a knife to pop off the SIM cover, and no, the directions simply say to use your fingernail to pull it out >_>06:36
hiemanshurm_you: you needed a knife? 0_006:41
hiemanshurm_you: and yeah, its a minisim, and not microsim06:41
rm_youi have the same normal fullsize sim i've had for the past 8 years06:42
rm_youit's not micro/mini/anything AFAICT?06:42
rm_youunless every SIM is a minisim06:42
hiemanshurm_you: normal sim is size of a credit card06:43
hiemanshucurrent sims are minisims06:43
hiemanshuiPhone 4 sized sims are microsims06:43
rm_youah lol06:43
rm_younever heard them referred to as minisims06:43
rm_youbefore today06:43
hiemanshuwell they are usually just called SIMs06:44
hiemanshusince the older normal sims are very very old now, maybe back in the late 90s06:44
* dm8tbr has a working phone that takes regular SIMs :-p07:23
DocScrutinizerwell, my sim cover pops open easily by pushing it towards screen. Not by levering with any knife or sth07:23
dm8tbrI don't use it though07:23
dm8tbrSiemens P1 ftw07:23
DocScrutinizermoto 620 :-)07:24
DocScrutinizermy first phone though been Nokia 2110 and I had to cut a normal sim to mini for it07:25
DocScrutinizertelekom had no miniSIM at that time07:26
ieatlintsome phones require microsims07:26
dm8tbrlike the N907:26
dm8tbrnokia 1610 took full size sims too07:27
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khertanrm_you, press and hold while you are on the task manager, and you can close apps07:38
DocScrutinizer51or use ctrl-Q07:39
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npmanybody have suggestions for why videos come up blank for with error "'Warning: "No decoder available for type 'video/x-flash-video, pixel-aspect-ratio=(fraction)1/1, width=(int)400, height=(int)220, framerate=(fraction)25/1'." '' ... but sound plays.... and app works otherwise08:13
npm(see for source/etc)08:14
npmalso, a different program complains about the binary itself: Aegis rejecting /home/developer/qtzibit_0_0_1_armel.deb: opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit not installed by the package08:15
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npmhow do i tell qtcreator that the binary it is installing is the applicatuon that it's supposed to be installing :-)08:16
npmif I solve this, it'll be a good first day with the n950 -- two apps ported08:17
npmthe latter being ... which creates this from this
djszapi_npm: what do you mean ?08:20
djszapi_if you make a package and then install it on the device, it should work.08:21
djszapi_Does c-obs load anything for anybody ?08:23
npmit should work, but it gives that error from aegis, then aegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected08:23
ieatlintif you do more than a standard application model you might run into weirdness08:23
ieatlintfor instance, if you project has two executables..08:23
antman8969npm I had that problem too08:23
ieatlintspeaking speculatively here08:24
npmjust one executable08:24
antman8969the fix lies in the deployment.pri I think08:24
ieatlintoh, i see, two apps08:24
antman8969I ended up taking the easy way out and making a new project and porting into the new project08:24
ieatlintyeah, you're deployment be screwed08:24
npmbut there's a lot of stuff in there... it was puking on every shell script and python file from which qtzibit subsumes08:24
djszapi_npm: try to make a package from command line. Let us see whether creator bug.08:25
npmi even renamed the shell script to .txt and it still didn't like it08:25
npmhad to move the #!/bin/sh down a few lines08:25
ieatlinti'll note that works very well on the n950 though08:25
ieatlint(without flash)08:25
antman8969lol yea, but html5 doesnt  :(08:25
djszapi_since html5...08:25
djszapi_antman8969: yes, it does.08:25
antman8969I opted into the youtube html5, but only audio plays08:26
npmyes works so the next step is i'm going to drop in the parameter to tell youtube api to only give mobile vids08:26
djszapi_antman8969: it works here and for other X users very well08:26
npmi think qmltube for maemo was missing that ....08:26
antman8969well thats not good08:26
npmbut first qtzibit which is much higher priority :-)08:26
ieatlintnokia is putting specific efforts into making work well on the device08:26
npmoh interesting.... i was wondering if (other hypothesis) that it weasn't some kind of security aegis issue08:27
ieatlinthow is it trying to play the video?08:27
npmand that the browser->media player is handing off some appropriate permissions to allow the codecs to run08:27
ieatlintqt or gstreamer?08:27
npmit appears that the stuff is running in harmattan media player08:28
npmwhich looks like qt08:28
djszapi_npm: well you can see from the console or syslog whether there is any aegis complain.08:28
npmthe only complain was 'Warning: "No decoder available for type 'video/x-flash-video, pixel-aspect-ratio=(fraction)1/1, width=(int)400, height=(int)220, framerate=(fraction)25/1'." ''08:29
npmbut it's possible that gstreamer is eating the lower level complaints08:29
djszapi_it has nothing to do with aegis.08:29
npmthe thing is the above 400x220 vid is already mobile-sized.08:29
npmwhich is why i was thinking it was aegis08:30
djszapi_stop thinking of aegis.08:30
ieatlintwe're all trying to08:31
npmand if it isn't one of these days i'll be inspired to do a buffer overflow in gstreamer and show why one should be concerned :-)08:31
npmactually if the security arch is done the way i'd do it,  aegis should be involved...08:32
djszapi_I have said it has nothing to do with aegis, if there is no messages. What else could I save? Think that it is aegis then, I do not care.08:33
djszapi_* say08:33
ieatlintI think it may be aegis08:33
npmwell the right way to check, which is a total pain in the ass, is to turn on full gstreamer debugging since it is eating all manner of stuff08:33
npmwell given that there's a few opinions on this, and i was just proposing aegis as hypothesis, (this is software, just thinking about it causes a heisenberg effect :-)08:35
djszapi_ieatlint: sure everything is related aegis. Be paranoid and keep repeating it if there is any problem. Even if someone from the aegis team says it is not related. Good luck and debug aegis... ;-)08:35
ieatlintdjszapi_: oh no, i agree with you, i just am entertained by your reaction08:36
npmah, so it's not aegis?08:36
npmcan't tell sarcasm on irc08:36
djszapi_npm: seriously, reading this channel. Every issue is aegis related !08:36
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npmoh, i just found out about this channel08:36
ieatlintthat's probably aegis' fault08:37
npmheh, djszapi_... i think aegis is cool. i'm not blaming it, however i need to learn it as i've only been dealing w/ it for less than 10 hours08:37
npmhowever i'd like to understand what magic incantation i have to add to my .pro file so that /opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit is recognized as the legitimate app by aegis08:38
djszapi_npm: which word of the sentence "it is not aegis related, if there is no error/warning message" you do not understand ? :)08:39
npmso "Aegis rejecting /home/developer/qtzibit_0_0_1_armel.deb: opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit not installed by the package" is not aegis related??08:39
djszapi_you said there is no warning, error message when I asked.08:40
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npmi'm working on two progs.08:40
djszapi_npm: very obscure what you are doing :)08:40
djszapi_so is there an error message for what you are doing or not ?08:40
npmthe question:  however i'd like to understand what magic incantation i have to add to my .pro file so that /opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit is recognized as the legitimate app by aegis08:40
npmthe pro file
djszapi_I have no idea how it is qmake related since I do not know qmake. CMake worked out-of-the-box for me without any special thing.08:42
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npmi'm using qtcreator08:42
tommausing harmattan target in creator should handle it08:42
djszapi_I am using vi.08:42
djszapi_npm: actually, if it does not work in qtcreator, it is a QtCreator bug.08:42
npmmy condolences. i hated vi back when i started on bsd 4.2 on a vax 11/750 :-)08:43
djszapi_nothing to do with aegis since it works from cli.08:43
npmand i still hate it08:43
ieatlintdon't start the editor war08:43
hiemanshubutterflies > * :P08:44
djszapi_ieatlint: there is no war, we discussed the environments....08:44
djszapi_npm: seriously, try it out from console.08:44
djszapi_(as I said)08:44
djszapi_There has already been a similar QtCreator bug (similar scenario, everybody was blaming aegis, but had nothing to do with that)08:45
npmactually reading the logs is just as good as running from console "# Add here commands to install the package into debian/qtzibit." is trhe problem....08:46
tommahow have you defined install in your .pro?08:48
tommai have no idea if that qmlapplicationviewer template should work with harmattan08:49
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djszapi_npm: forget qtcreator until it does not work from console.08:59
djszapi_try to localize the issue09:01
Summelinpm: the agies probably wants that manifest-file09:02
npmi already sort of solved the issue djszapi_09:03
Summeliok, nice :)09:03
npmnow it installs successfully. but puts the binary in an unexpected place09:03
npmis there any rules on where binaries go? the one i installed successfull was in /opt/qmltube/bin/qmltube ... hopefully that's an ok location for binaries09:05
djszapi_well, you cannot put under /etc/, but that should be okay, imho :)09:06
djszapi_you can try to touch any file into that folder. The problem is that if a directory is completely integrity protected. That should work. :)09:07
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dm8tbrmuten gorgen09:57
Summelinpm: I have similar location for my app, it should be ok09:58
SummeliHow can you add configuration files etc. with the qt creator to the deb-package09:58
SummeliI mean that if I would like to have /opt/myapp/myapp.conf file, how could I add that into the deb-file09:59
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tonberry__harmatton can support 3gp format??10:10
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thpSummeli: just like other files (.desktop, etc)10:17
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Summelithp: where those files are listed?10:17
Summeli this is pretty funny10:17
SummeliI can add .desktop etc. files, but I can't add custom files through that one10:17
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Summelimaybe I'll just search for the .desktop file and add a line after that10:18
thpSummeli: somethere in the .pro file10:19
thpSummeli: so you have e.g. configfile.files = myapp.conf and configfile.path = /opt/myapp and INSTALLS += configfile10:22
Summelithp: I tried that one, and result was broken package :D10:22
Summeli..maybe there was a typo or something..10:23
Summeliat least it made a difference, since I got the broken package ;-)10:23
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thpSummeli: INSTALLS += (the + is important)10:24
harbaumif i have a qml Page { id: page { Map id:map }}, why can't i access  ??10:35
harbaumit sais '' [undefined]10:36
thpharbaum: leave out the 'page.'10:36
harbaumnope, then it doesn't know about map at all10:36
thpharbaum: one option is this: property alias map: map10:37
thpwhich exposes map as a property of page10:37 should work that10:37
thp(you put that property alias on page)10:37
harbaumstill [undefined]10:38
harbaumsomething is fishy here ...10:38
harbaumthp: Hmm, seems to be related to the fact that Map is a qwidget10:47
harbaumexposing a standard button that way works10:48
harbaumok, ugly solution: create an addiotnal function in "page" to interface map with the rest10:51
thpharbaum: btw, is it the QML port of Osm2Go?10:57
harbaumnope, it's cacheme, basdcially the qml port of gpxview10:57
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JaffaMorning, all11:28
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khertan1morning Jaffa11:29
Venemo_N950_webcgood morning11:30
Venemo_N950_webcdjszapi, ping11:30
* khertan1 is still experimenting and trying to do a qml ui which provide easy switch between many opened file11:30
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Venemo_N950_webcI will make a QML IRC client... webchat is sooo unbearable11:36
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razvanpetruwebapps are unbearable in general11:39
harbaumcacheme also basically is nothing but a very specialized browser11:40
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Venemo_N950_webcnow I'' leave this dreadful interface11:46
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djszapiStskeeps: telepathy-idle might help with IRC things on this gadget (N950). Unfortunately, I am not sure though.11:51
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fluxI think the next logical step is to provide QML apps over HTTP :-)11:55
MekI think somebody wrote at least a khtml plugin that allowed for exactly that11:57
fralsafaik you can load components over http already flux, so almost there ;)11:57
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khertan1maybe they should start improving text management before :)12:10
khertan1and easy component to do non hierarchical multiple page12:10
Stskeepsit's possible to provide qml over http already12:10
khertan1pfffffiou ... it s difficult to do something in qml when a component was designed for12:11
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harbaumkhertan1: Also some very basic widgets are missing like a combobox12:15
khertan1i m surprize that it s easy to do page stack navigation , or toolbar page navigation12:16
harbaumwhy? That's how all the pre-installe dprogram work12:17
razvanpetruharbaum yeah, tell me about it, I had to spend a few hours yesterday trying to hack together a combobox12:17
harbaumi am now using a ButtonColumn instead12:18
khertan1harbaum: yep works well in some case12:18
khertan1harbaum: but try to do a text editor with multiple file view12:18
razvanpetruand what does the ButtonColumn do?12:18
harbaumif the number of entrie sis small12:18
djszapiThere is a MComboBox in the meegotouch API.12:18
khertan1harbaum: will be slow to close and open file each time :)12:18
razvanpetrudjszapi: is it shippable?12:19
djszapirazvanpetru: what do you mean by "shippable" ?12:19
Mekisn't a button/something which pops a selection dialog (which unfortunately is broken to only accept ListModel as model) a perfect replacement for a combobox?12:19
razvanpetrucan I just import something, declare the item in the QML and ship my software? :P12:19
razvanpetruor do I have to hack things together :)12:19
razvanpetrubecause this is the biggest problem of mobile Qt... you have to create the UI yourself if you want to have any hope of a good looking app. harmattan goes a long way towards fixing it... but not all the way12:20
razvanpetrufor my QsWallet app I spent maybe 60% of dev time working around UI bugs and trying to make the UI look decent on Symbian touch12:21
khertan1and you didn't depends too much on the gui12:21
khertan1for making my source code editor i ve already lost  90% in gui12:22
razvanpetrukhertan1: QML or QWidget?12:22
djszapirazvanpetru: I do not know whether they wrapped it in QML. When I wrote my Harmattan Ui in C++, it worked just fine.12:22
Mekthere are a lot of widgets in meegotouch that don't exist in qml12:24
razvanpetruspeaking of C++, is anyone using C++0x on Harmattan?12:24
Mekfor example the entire "Fast Scroll" thing doesn't exist in qml (although it is not that hard to reimement something similar in qml...)12:25
harbaumkhertan1: did you have a method to detect meego ín qmake?12:25
razvanpetruunix:!symbian:!maemo5  basically...12:25
razvanpetrualthough this will fail if you have desktop targets I think12:26
harbaumbut that's exactly what i want to distibguish from12:26
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razvanpetrumaemo6 would have made sense but it didn't work for me12:28
harbaumthere  is no built-in way. you need to do some trick. the questoin is which one12:29
razvanpetruenv var? :P12:29
harbaumat build time?12:30
harbaumat runtime i am checking for /etc/issue12:30
razvanpetruso instead of unix:!symbian:!maemo5 you could check for the var12:32
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harbaumbut then i'd have to set the env var. i want a full automatic thing12:35
griat runtime there is also "uname -a" which returns "Linux RM680" .. at build time scratchbox has the hosts system name :(12:35
harbaumi am not building through scratchbox12:35
griany way to detect whether you're building for arm or not?12:38
harbaumIt's just the bare map with gps and some simple config dialog12:38
djszapirazvanpetru: question is that why there are missing components, still.12:38
Stskeepsharbaum: btw, we have agps working in n900 CE now as well if that interests you12:39
kimjucould someone run "dpkg -l > foo" on device and pastebin that?12:39
harbaumStskeeps: great, i'll give it a try12:39
Stskeepsharbaum: qt mobility should be all wired up12:39
djszapirazvanpetru: maybe you can write one and contribute it back and then it will be shared :p12:40
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djszapifwiw: telepathy-idle is packaged: We could make a Ui for it and then we could have an IRC client for this N950 gadget.12:51
alteregoI wonder if Peregrine would do that ..12:55
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djszapiI have never heard of Peregrine. However I have discussed it with the konversation developers and that project is not modularized enough yet to just use a properly library. That is what telepathy can provide, but any reasonable solution is good for this use case.12:57
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harbaumDo we have a place to put interesting .deb files?13:14
kimjuis the obs at (pub.) already able to compile packages for harmattan? what repositories I should configure my project to use there?13:15
djszapiharbaum: c-obs13:15
djszapikimju: indeed13:15
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: AGPS? that's rather exciting13:15
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: agps as in gps assisted with almanac over wire13:16
djszapikimju: well, there is no shared repository yet. It is rather sad if you ask me.13:17
lardmanis it just me or is it not possible to operate the phone with one hand? E.g. from the unlock screen I can't for the life of me open the phone app from a missed call notification13:17
djszapimaybe we could create one instead of waiting for lbt, X-Fade ?13:17
lcukdjszapi, find a way to make gitorious or github your repository and just build projects directly on devices13:18
djszapilcuk: I like neither of them, mainly gitorious.13:18
Jaffalardman: I often struggle, especially with swipes as my thumb/palm intersection ends up also touching the screen13:18
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fralslardman: fwiw its way easier on n913:19
lardmanJaffa: seems to me that they should allow me to not need to swipe so far13:19
kimju is missing info how to configure your obs project for harmattan, only how to use the results in harmattan.13:19
lardmanfrals: different sw or smaller device?13:19
fralslardman: my below-thumb-cushion seems to touch the screen on the n950 all the time when swiping13:19
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fralslardman: different hw design, i guess is the cause13:19
kimjubut if the harmattan support in obs is still work in progress then I'll just use scratchbox for my own needs13:19
lardmanfrals: cool13:19
Jaffakimju: contains info on the destination and how to use the work in progress13:20
fralslardman: ymmv, but thats my feeling at least ;)13:20
JaffaI didn't want to advertise it too much because X-Fade was still working on it.13:20
lardmanfrals: no worries :)13:20
JaffaHowever, since other things may be blocking progress I don't see why the wiki page couldn't link to
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djszapiHow many packagers are here ? We could create a shared repository for packages.13:24
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: on which device?13:28
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: sorry etab13:28
djszapiHarmattan, N95013:28
djszapioh :)13:29
DocScrutinizerStskeeps:  on which device?13:29
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: n90013:29
kimjuJaffa, thanks, I'll test if that works for me.13:29
DocScrutinizerand you feed the alm/eph to modem via isi?13:29
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: right now we just ported liblocation and the stack onto meego n900 and glued qt mobility to it13:30
Jaffadjszapi: A shared repository rapidly gets problematic. Which is why the PPA and shared Apps-testing & Apps process is being followed.13:31
Stskeepsi'm aware this is not the proper way but better to have working than not at all :P13:31
Jaffadjszapi: In the short term, it's sub-optimal for those devs wanting to use more on their N950s13:31
* Jaffa has found a few repos via Google, so might start a wiki page13:31
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: think of it as a ""closed driver""13:32
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: right13:32
Jaffakimju: If it does, can you update Getting_started_with_OBS, please?13:32
djszapiJaffa: what do you mean ?13:32
djszapiWe need a shared repository because we would like to avoid the duplication.13:32
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: OTOH I wonder if AGPS via wire *ever* worked even for M513:34
Jaffadjszapi: ITP and other coordination processes13:34
djszapiJaffa: we do not need an Apps Apps-Testing bureaucracy for the short term at all13:34
djszapiJaffa: Also, the blog of lbt has been there for more than half a year and it is still nowhere, no names added in the team etc.13:35
djszapiwe cannot wait another half a year for a proper bureaucracy, we could have an interim solution which /works/.13:35
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: maybe I have to eventually redo my A/B-tests, which showed TTFF is unbearable on a device with WLAN but no SIM13:35
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Jaffadjszapi: What are you asking for? It's unclear. is my interim suggestion.13:39
Jaffadjszapi: "duplication" of what?13:40
djszapiJaffa: my asking: 13:24 < djszapi> How many packagers are here ? We could create a shared repository for packages.13:40
Jaffakimju: I've added the link to getting started page13:40
djszapiJaffa: duplication of packages.13:40
Jaffadjszapi: How are you going to duplicate my software?13:40
Jaffadjszapi: I suspect you're talking about libraries, but you haven't mentioned that.13:40
djszapinot libraries, no, not at all13:40
djszapiI am speaking about packaging effort.13:41
MohammadAGJaffa, stuff like aircrack-ng or libs I guess13:41
djszapiGood example, I did not duplicate any package creation process. However I saw that more packages of mine were duplicated in other own repositories..which is not nice for them13:41
djszapiThey did not realize there are already such packages.13:41
lardmanI would prefer to not have to build all the libraries I need, so add me to the vote13:41
djszapiThey  could have spent their time more efficiently with contribution.13:41
MohammadAGextras-devel for Harmattan would be awesome13:42
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lardmanand would also mean no need to learn obs ;)13:43
djszapiyep, but what is being proposed by lbt and X-Fade is a long process with so much bureaucracy. It does not really work in the short term13:43
Jaffadjszapi: So, you're not talking about libraries; but someone taking some software (e.g. from Maemo) and repackaging it *who isn't the original packager*?13:43
MohammadAGsame system, devs don't have to learn new stuff13:43
Jaffalardman: Well, given there's only one Harmattan autobuilder and its OBS, you'd still have to.13:43
djszapiJaffa: you do not still understand ehhh13:44
MohammadAGpersonally I like OBS as a concept, but don't think it "just works"13:44
djszapiJaffa: "A" person packages "P" package. "B" person also packages "P" package. Isn't it a duplication ? Wouldn't it be enough if one of them packages "P" and the other one "R" ?13:44
Jaffa3 of you are all agreeing with each other and asking for 3 different things.13:44
MohammadAGyou'll need to find the homes or repos that host the packages you want13:44
Jaffadjszapi: Use a concrete example. What is "P"? You said it's not a library.13:45
lardmanJaffa: well wrap it in a extras-style web submission page then13:45
djszapiJaffa: that does not really matter what P is.13:45
Jaffalardman: OBS has a web UI, AIUI13:45
MohammadAGdo OBS builds eventually end up somewhere?13:45
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Jaffadjszapi: It does. Who owns "P"? Why are A & B both packaging it? Was there any avenue to discuss between themselves? etc.13:45
MohammadAGa centralized repo containing all packages13:46
lardmanMohammadAG: in your own repo afaiu13:46
JaffaMohammadAG: OBS builds end up in debian repositories (assuming you're building for Harmattan)13:46
djszapiJaffa: it is really simple, there is no centralized place where they could look for.13:46
JaffaMohammadAG: No, a centralised repo is specifically *not* possible.13:46
djszapifor instance, from command line.13:46
djszapiso both started packaging.13:46
Jaffadjszapi: They could, y'know, talk to the maintainer of "P"13:46
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MohammadAGthat's my point13:46
djszapiJaffa: No, it is not acceptable approach in my opinion.13:46
djszapiWe should provide as efficient environment as possible to avoid the duplication.13:47
MohammadAGJaffa, suppose you need libqfacebook-dev, so you packaged it and sent it to your home repo13:47
JaffaWell whoopty fucking do. I'm explaining what's possible, and what the process is. I've also tried to mitigate the risks (which I agree with) by creating a wiki page and trying to point ppl to it.13:47
MohammadAGnow suppose I also need libqfacebook-dev, and I didn't know you already packaged it13:47
MohammadAGI'd package it again13:47
djszapiyeah, what MohammadAG is ssaying basically, +113:47
lardmanMohammadAG: good point, we could do with a search page to search all of obs repos13:48
djszapilardman: nope13:48
MohammadAGon Fremantle, I could just apt-get install libqfacebook-dev13:48
JaffaAnd the way other people have done - including MeeGo - is have "ITP" Intent to Package pages where you can see if anyone's done it.13:48
MohammadAGno packages found = I package it13:48
djszapia centralized repository would be better since you can do it from cli.13:48
frals12:46:26 < Jaffa> MohammadAG: No, a centralised repo is specifically *not* possible.13:48
MohammadAGpackage found = profit13:48
fralswait what? doesnt it work for harmattan OBS target?13:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: moinmoin13:48
lardmandjszapi: nope what?13:48
* frals is confused13:48
* frals heads opens wikipage13:48
djszapifrals: I did not understand that either :/13:49
djszapilardman: search page is not enough, people tend to look packages from cli13:49
djszapisome people start packaging it if they do not find it there.13:49
Jaffafrals: Does "what" not work?13:49
kimjuwouldn't those Apps and Apps testing repositories be the centralized ones? after the stuff is mature enough.13:49
lardmanJaffa: with your repo list plan, we could do with e.g. .install files (are they still supported) to allow people to add these repos I would say13:49
Jaffafrals: Harmattan OBS target is a "repository" attached to a "project"13:49
djszapicentralized, shared repository would solve it without adding 10+ repositories or even more.13:49
Jaffakimju: Exactly.13:49
kimjuuntil that, some manual work will be needed for dependencies.13:50
fralsJaffa: "a centralised repo" for libraries and apps13:50
lardmandjszapi: hmm13:50
djszapikimju: too much bureaucracy. It does not work in the short term13:50
Jaffadjszapi: I suggest you go and read all the background around Surrounds, Apps, Extras and the discussion therein.13:50
kimjuyou can branch the package in obs or something13:50
Jaffafrals: That's Apps-testing and Apps13:50
fralsJaffa: basically a common OBS "project" where people can send their stuff so its in a "centralised" repo in the end13:50
khertan1community obs isn't made for that ?13:50
djszapiJaffa: I have done it multiple times earlier.13:50
lardmanfrals: +113:50
djszapino thanks13:50
JaffaIOW, when you've packaged something which works you promote it from your home repo to Apps-testing13:50
fralsJaffa: so its there? then i have no clue what the discussion is about :DDD13:50
JaffaYou can also clone projects into your repo13:50
djszapiJaffa: why do you ignore what I am writing ?13:51
lardmanJaffa: I'm not sure such a repo should be exposed to the eventual end users, but it would be useful for us to use now, which would remove some of the Extras-* problems13:51
Summelistupid question: how do I create my own repo?13:51
djszapilbt's post has been there for ages, more than half a year and still nowhere, no teams, not enough people etc13:51
fralsso what djszapi and lardman is asking for is apps-testing, and its there, and the only thing *packagers* need to do is promote it from their home repos to there13:51
djszapiit will not succeed in the short term meaning that we do really need a less restrict solution for the short term...13:51
lardmanJaffa, frals: ah, I didn't realise it could be done like that either13:52
djszapifarls: too bureaucracy.13:52
djszapitoo much QA for the short term13:52
Jaffalardman: I don't disagree. However it doesn't exist. I'm not sure it can exist (but I'm not an OBS) expert. It doesn't take us towards the ultimate goal and so I've done what I can: explain the situation, the aim and created a page by which we can all collaborate (and there's also the ITP stuff which is EXACTLY FOR WHAT DJZAPI IS WANTING)13:52
djszapithere could be a less restrict interim solution13:52
MohammadAGhow are packages considered mature Jaffa?13:52
djszapifrals: thing is that we need it yesterday ;)13:52
Jaffafrals: And the promotion mechanism from home repos to Apps-testing is currently in development.13:52
lardmanJaffa: what I want seems to exist I now know; I may have to do some fiddling around to get obs up and running, but it's not the end of the world13:53
fralsJaffa: oh, i see... that would be a problem13:53
MohammadAGif it's the same way from -testing -> to extras, then we're in for a shitload of repos13:53
MohammadAGmorning DocScrutinizer13:53
khertan1qrc:/qml/editorCreation.js: File not found13:53
khertan1oups ...13:53
djszapiMohammadAG: agreed13:53
fralsso the stop-gap solution would be for someone to set up a "apps-devel-temp" project and ask people to promote to that repo until the app-testing promotion works?13:53
djszapiJaffa:  your wikipage, sorry not destructive, just constructive, is a hazzle to me.13:54
MohammadAGIf _I_ as a dev can mark them as stable, I'll be happy13:54
JaffaMohammadAG: Devs can promote from home repos to Apps-testing at any time, AFAIK13:54
djszapiadding 10+ or even more later to my sources.list is not acceptable.13:54
Jaffadjszapi: Well I can't do anything else.13:54
MohammadAGJaffa, and downvotes wouldn't kill it?13:54
djszapiit is the same what MohammadAG said. "shitload of repos"13:54
djszapiJaffa: we CAN13:54
djszapiwe can create a shared interim repository until the final one gets working13:55
Jaffafrals: I still don't know if you can cross-promote like that. You can "derive" packages (
fralsJaffa: just out of curiousity, what extra functionality does this promotion to apps-testing require that is been developed? since afaik meego already uses a similar approach?13:55
djszapiand later we can mostly port the interim repository into the final13:55
djszapiif there is any need for that...13:55
Jaffafrals: I'm not the person to ask. I've no idea.13:55
fralsJaffa: ok :)13:55
djszapi13:53 < frals> so the stop-gap solution would be for someone to set up a "apps-devel-temp" project and ask people to promote to that repo until the app-testing promotion works? -> YEP13:56
MohammadAGI think the summary of the whole discussion is, having extras-devel would ease development13:56
Jaffadjszapi: Given no-one except the Treemaker folk have produceed anything which is suitable for anything other than devs on Harmattan, there is no movement from a shared short term project & repository to Apps-testing13:56
lardmanall this cross-promotion and derivation needs to be documented in big developer friendly letters somewhere13:56
djszapiMohammadAG: yep, it seems we agree apart from Jaffa...13:56
Jaffadjszapi: Go and do that then, if you know how to in OBS13:56
Jaffadjszapi: Oh FFS.13:56
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MohammadAGdjszapi, he isn't disagreeing...13:56
fralsjaffa was agreeing...13:57
MohammadAGit's called a discussion13:57
djszapiMohammadAG: I do not see the issue. Why not just create one then ?13:57
fralsthe problem is the automatic promotion without someone pressing accept on all submissions i guess13:57
djszapifrals: well, the whole apps ans apps-testing thing does not move towards the purpose, just very slowly.13:59
djszapiit is not acceptable. The idea has been there for more than half a year and still nowhere.13:59
djszapithere is no names added, so either we need to make the process faster or create an interim solution.13:59
djszapiwhich has obviously some drawbacks.14:00
DocScrutinizernoob asking here: which repo should I look for to get a midnight commander for harmattan?14:01
MohammadAGI'd guess none, you'll probably have to package it14:01
djszapiDocScrutinizer: I can try to package it for you if you want.14:01
DocScrutinizernoob pondering: or is there some wiki site that holds links to all the places with repos and lists midnight commander if it exists anywhere?14:02
djszapic-obs, you can look for it14:02
MohammadAGeasy way is to apt-get source mc in fremantle target and fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b14:02
lardmanDocScrutinizer: iirc it's possible to search from the obs main page for subprojects14:02
djszapihowever it is not as good as it could be.14:02
djszapiMohammadAG: I think it is better to use some newer debian version actually than fremantle14:03
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: obviously that's missing the point14:03
djszapior kubuntu14:03
khertan1if only python was integrated to qtcreator ... pff14:03
lardmanhmm, that's a point, are the pyside packages in the sdk repo?14:03
DocScrutinizerjust if you missed it - ^^^ noob was contributing to extras-devel-repo discussion14:03
khertan1lardman: yep14:03
lardmanphew, thanks khertan14:04
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, didn't miss it ;)14:04
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: nevertheless I'd appreciate somebody building it, yeah14:04
djszapidoing atm....14:04
khertan1lardman: maybe you know it, but python/pyside app will be accepted in ovi store for harmattan14:04
lardmanI've never even seen Ovi store14:04
lardmanI thought Ovi was being shutdown anyway?14:05
khertan1what that bloodyhell ? === to do a equal compare operation !14:05
khertan1strange qml is !14:05
djszapiMohammadAG: so what is the outcome, should we create an apps-devel-temp for now with few of us ?14:05
kimjuhmm, "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created.". seems to at least build stuff, but the repo is taking time to get created.14:05
frals== is equal but with type coercion14:05
cpscottikhertan, hehe had the same WTF first time I saw it14:05
kimjuand another thing to note is that obs didn't add any build version to the package as it does with the rpm/spec stuff for meego-ce14:06
DocScrutinizerlardman: so you say there's actually some place where I could find a mc.deb if any exists, and that place is NOT called google?14:06
khertan1cpscotti: the problem is that i say wtf every minutes with qt harmattan component14:06
lardmanDocScrutinizer: I'm just repeating what someone told me ;)14:06
cpscottikhertan, my current WTF is: where can I see all the theme icons (e.g. "image://theme/icon-m-toolbar-search" )14:07
cpscottiI beg for help.. the interweb is not helping at all14:08
khertan1cpscotti: lol i got the same wtf some days ago14:08
fralscpscotti: /usr/share/themes/blanco/icons or smth14:08
khertan1cpscotti: my way of discovering it was by looking at theme14:08
khertan1and removing prefix :)14:08
cpscottifrals, thaaanks! I was at /usr/share/icons/blanco and didn't find anything..14:09
khertan1and now the current wtf ... is : why does qt didn't update my .js file in qemu ...14:09
djszapifrals DocScrutinizer MohammadAG lardman and others: I would also be happy if we more active users could get access to the apps and apps-testing, or lbt and x-fade would merge their packages within a reliable time, not a long process.14:10
DocScrutinizerwell, there's (and non-free, nokia-binaries) to search for packages. I wonder if we could get a* where mc could move to if e.g. mohammad feels like building it14:10
* khertan1 would like also
khertan1qemu is so slow14:12
djszapiDocScrutinizer: why not c-obs ?14:12
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: I actually don't care, just we need ONE place where rocks can aggregate14:13
djszapiyeah, that was the whole discussion about. We could have an apps-dev-temp at c-obs which satisfies also your request14:13
DocScrutinizerjust like extras-devel been, just maybe with even less bureaucratic overhead, to register and get account and stuff14:14
khertan1hu ... no ifconfig ?14:14
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: yeah, bureaucratic overhead quite disables to short term contribution properly.14:15
djszapi* the short term14:15
DocScrutinizerI mean, for now the number of potential contributors is rather limited, so we won't drown in crappy rogue contributions of unknown people14:16
cpscottilol, there's a vodafone icon in the theme folder : /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons/icon-m-service-vodafone.png14:17
DocScrutinizermaybe just link to account and allow to "check in" stuff for all who got such account14:17
kimjuwell, if things are happening too slow, you can create your own home:user:community obs project and start acting as gatekeeper for that?14:18
djszapikimju: that was the point of the whole discussion. To avoid that.14:18
djszapieverybody created his own repository from the beginning. Everybody made a great work there. However it is not shared, that is the point.14:19
DocScrutinizerit's actually kinda funny Nokia deploys developer devices to get a good number of apps for N9 rollout, and then a place is missing where Nokia actually can "harvest" the results14:19
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sebashey, does anyone else have problems installing the SDK which came with the N950? Installation fails here with the following error:14:19
sebasCould not fetch Updates.xml: Error downloading - server replied: Bad Request14:19
kimjudjszapi, so start sharing together? if you want a temp project, it could also be under some of your home:user.. while waiting for the long term solution14:19
sebas(it stops during setup)14:20
djszapikimju: I think that is not a good idea...14:20
djszapithe problem is that I would still keep my repository for my own purposes since it can help later while merging into the final repository, if the temporary gets somehow messed up. I do think we need a separate and dedicated temporary repository for that.14:20
kimjuyes? you can create as many home:user:something:else repos as needed14:21
kimjujust name one as the community one.14:21
DocScrutinizerkimju: noob asking here: how would I find my midnight commander in that "structure"? google?14:21
MohammadAGwhat's the DDP's email again?14:22
MohammadAGit's been 12 or 13 days14:22
djszapiIt would really be nice to create a community account for it.14:22
kimjuDocScrutinizer, how would you find it from some apps-testing-temp ?14:22
djszapikimju: google, wikipage14:22
djszapiwe can add it to the aforementioned wikipage as well14:22
DocScrutinizerkimju: ideally with apt-cache search?14:23
djszapialso from command line as DocScrutinizer is saying.14:23
kimjuDocScrutinizer, you're not going to get any non-qa'd repo into the default images. not now, not later..14:23
djszapikimju: but he can add the repo to the sources.list file.14:23
DocScrutinizerdefault images??14:23
djszapinobody spoke about the default image :D14:23
DocScrutinizeryou say I can't add any repo of my liking?14:24
kimjuthe noob wont know how to add one.14:24
DocScrutinizerkimju: except *me* there ARE NO noobs with N950 yet14:24
kimjuand any more advanced user can as well add apps-testing-temp or home:user:community14:24
djszapikimju: wikipage, IRC channel topic title, mailing list announcement. There are so many practices14:24
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djszapiYou cannot give 100% solution with the apps and apps-testing either anyway...14:25
DocScrutinizerkimju: and I'm absolutely unbiased about which is the name of that repo to add14:26
DocScrutinizerkimju: I just won't add one repo for mc, one for bin-utils-gnu, one for puzzlemaster...14:26
kimjuwhat I'm trying to say that instead of complaining that someone is not creating non-qa'd common repo, you can just create one yourself. only difference is that it would be under home:user: namespace instead of some apps:testing:foo14:26
DocScrutinizerso WHAT's THE USE of such nonsense14:27
kimjuin both cases you need to document the repo name to wiki etc..14:27
DocScrutinizerof course I can create 10000 empty repos14:27
DocScrutinizerbut how would I make others add stuff to it?14:28
cpscottisebas, That one's not working. Just install normal QtSdk and then install Harmattan SDK under Experimental14:28
djszapikimju: why do you think a community repository relates to a user and not a community account ?14:28
kimjuDocScrutinizer, same way as into some other repo? document it and ask them to do so?14:29
kimjudjszapi, I'm just trying to succest a workaround.. you can do it by yourself without waiting.14:29
DocScrutinizer"hey devels, there's randomhackers superduper-repo, but now HERE is the REAL thing, I just created the MEGA-ACME-repo and please all check in your stuff *only* to my repo now""14:30
DocScrutinizerkimju: don't you see this isn't a technical but a semantic / social / communication problem?14:31
sebascpscotti: ah, ok, thanks!14:31
kimjuDocScrutinizer, I'm used to work around the social problems with technical solutions :D14:32
DocScrutinizerthere just has to be *one* place where every devel is supposed to drop random bits he thinks can get re-used by other devels14:33
djszapiCould someone make a summary about the ideas on the wikipage, to not lose it ? :)14:33
DocScrutinizerkimju: technical solution to this: Nokia gets a notice on wiki: "please all devels drop your stuff to jaffa's user-repo:"14:34
DocScrutinizerif jaffa comes up with same suggestion, it will most likely go unnoticed14:35
kimjuif this is community work, why it needs to be nokia to do that?14:35
DocScrutinizerkimju: It could as well be president of united states, or even linus torvalds14:36
djszapikimju: that would avoid teh discussions inside the community which also takes some time. It would be straight-forward from the beginning.14:36
DocScrutinizerit just modt definitely not be a notice from me, that is authoritative to all community14:37
DocScrutinizerand aiui we got no council for meego, otherwise it'd be the council to come up with this14:38
kimjuI just don't see the problem. you want such a repo, you can technically do it. so why not just create it, document and announce it and if the community likes the idea, they are going to push stuff there. at least I would do so.14:39
DocScrutinizeras that's what maemo community council was all about (among other duties)14:39
Mekwhy would a meego council get involved with harmatan repositories?14:40
kimjuand then when the official apps/apps-testing is ready, start migrating stuff there.14:40
DocScrutinizerkimju: you're suggesting I'm going to waste my time14:40
Mekespecially repository wise harmatan has nothing to do with meego14:40
DocScrutinizerkimju: obviously you have a reason to prefer technical to social solutions14:40
DocScrutinizerpossibly a lack of understanding how community works14:41
DocScrutinizerkimju: basically it's eactly what needs to be done: >> create it, document and announce it and if the community likes the idea, they are going to push stuff there<< just it's the question WHO is going to do this. I elaborated above why it's no e.g. me who's the right guy to start on it14:44
kimjuI really don't see why you can't be the one to start that14:45
DocScrutinizermaybe any of the council would be right guy for that14:45
DocScrutinizermaybe $random Nokia guy. Maybe Quim14:45
DocScrutinizerkimju: I technically *can* do it, but it's prone to fail14:46
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DocScrutinizerjaffa otoh would be a good choice14:47
DocScrutinizerQuim would be the best choice really14:47
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lardmanhmm, following this channel is a full time job14:51
kimjusorry :)14:51
lardmannp, just going to have to read offline rather than dipping in while at work14:51
macmaNanyone get a car holder for the n950 yet?15:02
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StecchinomacmaN: I've got a universal one that I got for the N900 that works quite well15:08
Stecchinoalso holds my gf's HTC very good to15:09
Stecchinojust the charging port at the top is a bit of a bother15:09
macmaNis your a 4-corner holder?15:10
macmaNor two sides?15:10
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macmaNim kinda digging the corner holder15:11
macmaNjudging from the urls, it has to be one of the gayest e-shop platforms available that theyre using15:12
StecchinomacmaN: 2 sides15:26
StecchinomacmaN: basically like this:
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DocScrutinizerlardman: we got nice chanlogs ;-)15:29
lardmanDocScrutinizer: yeah I know, but I keep forgetting to grab them before I head home - doh!15:30
lardmaninternet should be connected soon though so I'm told15:30
macmaNStecchino: gotcha kthx15:31
DocScrutinizerlardman: I could set up an autoresponder:  <lardman>bye  -->>  <DocScrutinizer> lardman: don't forget to grab
DocScrutinizerlardman: how about a cronjob with wget? ;-)15:33
lardmanyeah lots that could be done, but that would also require me to remember to take e.g. a usb key home with me :)15:33
lardmanas I'm working on a desktop here15:33
lardmanAm using N950 day to day atm15:34
DocScrutinizercould do that as well I'd hope15:34
lardmanyeah, but I'd need to do more fiddling about - may as well concentrate on the important apps that I'm working on15:35
DocScrutinizerwhile true; do wget; sleep $(( 15 * 60 )); done15:35
DocScrutinizerfor your convenience :-)15:36
lardmanWhen I finally finish proximus I could get it to wget the data as I reach the carpark just before the wifi gives out ;)15:36
DocScrutinizeractually the link is wrong15:36
DocScrutinizeris the right one15:36
* lardman hates sorting out document references and checking table/figure numbers before sending a report off15:37
khertan1look like is over attack :)15:39
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DocScrutinizerhaha, I thought I might give another chance to convince me: of course no N9 (yet?), but a really funny detail is N900 shows up when you select "show: touch" and does *not* show up when you select "show: full kbd"16:00
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alteregoAnyone fancy getting this to work with the N9?
* alterego chuckles16:21
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cpscottialterego, LOL! awesome! Imagine downloading a film on that thing...16:32
cpscottiI wonder if it's soo raw that it would work through cell phone lines ... :D16:33
alteregoYes it should do, I used to have a modem that used a similar technology.16:33
alteregoBut it depends on the line quality, cell phones use a lot of compression16:33
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cpscottialterego, yep.. Probably it takes out all frequencies not produced/relevant/consumed by humans16:36
hiemanshuok, so I did some playing around with the N950, so far, its decent, loads of bugs16:40
Stskeepsjust remember it's ancient firmware16:41
hiemanshuStskeeps: yeah16:42
hiemanshuplain Qt Version of my app works perfectly on it16:42
hiemanshuneed to change the UI to QML and should be done16:43
hiemanshuand Qt 4.8 \o/16:43
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harbaumit has some very surprising and nice features: E.g. Exchange integration works so cool16:48
harbaumYou can eveninvite people to meetings16:48
harbaumAnd you can schedule email downloads, so it dosn't wake you up in the night16:49
alteregoOh nice, they finally have ctrl+arrow navigate between words in camel case :D16:49
harbaumi thould start a thread about this  on t.m.o16:49
harbaumwhat's a camel case?16:49
harbaumah, i thought it was a pack of cigarettes16:51
hiemanshuhmmm, for some reason calling is fucked up, I can make or receive calls but I cannot see the current status of the call or even cut the call17:01
hiemanshuerr sorry, cannot even receive, I dont get the accept/reject button17:02
hiemanshuit worked for a while in the starting, and then after a reboot doesn't work anymore17:02
alteregoEek, works for me :/17:02
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hiemanshuyeah, the screen just stays black17:05
khertan1hiemanshu: did you play with the theme or change it ?17:05
hiemanshukhertan1: I edited the contants.ini to remove the branding thats all17:05
hiemanshubut I changed it back too, no change :/17:06
khertan1hum oh did you change it ?17:06
khertan1remove it from the file ?17:06
khertan1aegis isn't a problem for this type of file ?17:06
hiemanshuwell you have to remove dev_ to remove the branding, I added it back too, and it didn't work17:06
hiemanshuit shouldn't be17:07
hiemanshubecause it worked fine17:07
hiemanshuI used vi17:07
khertan1anyway aegis is more violent in case he detect modification17:08
khertan1so couldn't be that17:08
hiemanshukhertan1: I did the first step and even reversed it17:08
khertan1the first time i try to send sms or try to call it wasn't working until someone call me17:09
DocScrutinizeraegis just could kill the dialer app when dialer app is opening a modified ini file17:09
khertan1i think there is some problem somewhere17:09
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: but others didn't have any issue17:09
hiemanshualterego: you removed the branding too didn't you?17:09
khertan1DocScrutinizer how does he compare file ? hash? modification date ?17:09
DocScrutinizerhmm, yeah, I don't think it's actually aegis-related17:10
DocScrutinizerkhertan1: both I guess17:10
alteregohiemanshu: I removed the "DEVELOPER EDITION" window background17:10
alteregoI still have it in the status bar.17:10
hiemanshualterego: but editing constants.ini right??17:11
alteregoI think ..17:11
alteregoIt was either that or a .css file.17:11
hiemanshualterego: and how did you edit it?17:12
alteregossh root@localhost17:12
alteregonano /usr/share/blah/blah/constants.ini17:13
hiemanshuI did devel-su instead17:13
alteregoI actually did it from my development machine, so it was ssh root@
hiemanshuwell still the same on the phone edit17:14
khertan1X Error: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter) 9   Extension:    145 (Uknown extension)   Minor opcode: 1 (Unknown request)   Resource id:  0x0 < easy to debug when something goes wrong in qml17:14
hiemanshuand it works for you17:14
DocScrutinizeralterego: let's hope THAT doesn't make any difference at least :-D (ssh vs devel-su)17:15
alteregoDocScrutinizer: indeed ;)17:16
Mekssh vs devel-su does make a difference for various things17:16
DocScrutinizereeeek I knew it, I knew it ;-P17:17
Mekyou can't use aegis-developer-mode from a ssh root@, but you can after a devel-su17:17
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I suspected as much ..17:17
alteregoI also changed my root password, btw ..17:17
DocScrutinizeramazing aegis let you do that X-P17:17
alteregoWell, yes. If it didn't I would make sure the device was wrapped in tin foil :P17:18
DocScrutinizerMek: err, sorry, what's aegis-developer-mode?17:19
Meknot sure what aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec does, but I think it is something with running binaries that are not from a package17:19
DocScrutinizermind you, we have no real howto about aegis at all17:20
khertan1chmod: /opt/test21/bin/test21: Operation not permitted mesg: not a tty sh:  /opt/test21/bin/test21: Operation not permitted17:20
Mekah, no, that was not devel-su, it was develsh that makes it possible to use that option...17:20
Mektoo many similar tools...17:21
DocScrutinizerindeed, and way too sparse docs17:21
DocScrutinizeroooh, qgil online \o/17:21
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crevetorWhat apps have you guys installed on the N950 ?17:22
DocScrutinizerbut it kinda sucks17:23
hiemanshugonna reboot and see if editing using nano using ssh works17:23
Mekangrybirds :P17:23
hiemanshuMek: its available? :/17:23
DocScrutinizer:-P makes me think nor for us17:23
Mekhiemanshu: only in the internal repo :P17:23
crevetoryeah compass sorta sucks, I think i'm going to write a qml compass in a short while17:24
crevetorMek: Where did you get it ?17:24
crevetorMek: you work at rovio ?17:24
Mekcrevetor: no, I meant the internal nokia repo17:24
crevetorMek: ok17:25
DocScrutinizercrevetor: quite probably we couldn't install it on our N950 even if we got access to it - thanks aegis17:25
crevetordocScrutinizer: maybe...17:26
hiemanshuI am waiting for docs on creating manifest files for aegis, need to package opencv17:26
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: err there's actually something on devel.n.com17:26
crevetorhiemanshu: I sorta found some :)
hiemanshuah awesome, thanks17:28
DocScrutinizerI find the majority of harmattan devels wasting the majority of their time on messing with aegis, while Mr Stallman thinks community should completely refuse to touch devices that follow this TC concept17:29
DocScrutinizerI tend to agree with Mr Stallman here17:30
alteregoThey told us that we could completely disable aegis ..17:30
alteregoThat the device was as open as fremantle ;)17:31
hiemanshualterego: its a lie17:31
hiemanshueverything is a lie17:31
DocScrutinizerI don't see this happening - any time neither right now nor any time in the future17:31
crevetorBut then you still want your app to run on aegis-enabled devices...17:31
khertan1DocScrutinizer: and the rest of the majority his wasting their time reimplementing a for a framework where component are now essential but no developped the open way17:31
alteregoI'm sure there is a jailbreak :P17:32
DocScrutinizeralterego: yes, it's called R&D cert17:32
DocScrutinizerand it's missing on "our" devices17:32
khertan1While they maybe block some things with aegis, they are the only one which provide python on a phone17:32
khertan1so ...17:32
alteregootoh, meego for N950 doesn't have aegis :P17:33
khertan1did you have ssh problem to connect to your n950 ?17:33
spenapquestion: when the apps -for the developer program- are ready, where are they supposed to be published? ovi store? apps.meego? others?17:33
DocScrutinizerkhertan1: you might want to read
khertan1spenap: as dev want ...17:33
crevetoralterego: CE ?17:33
alteregoMeeGo CE17:34
crevetoralterego: did you get it to run on the N950 ?17:34
alteregocrevetor: no, but people have, and there are some instructions, though I don't think they're complete on the wiki17:34
khertan1DocScrutinizer i didn't trust myself (brain lie most of the time) ... sometime i just made some compromise until a better solution is build17:34
DocScrutinizeralterego: meegoCE will need moslo aiui - otherwise won't even boot. I don't see moslo (yet)17:35
crevetoralterego: yeah and I guess you need to whipe harmattant to get CE working right ?17:35
alteregoI don't plan on putting MeeGo proper on the N950 until I either get an N9, or I complete my obligation to the DDP17:35
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: btw, can you do me a favour and try to replace the kernel modules package under development mode / see what happens17:35
alteregoDocScrutinizer: actually I think uboot is still the plan.17:35
spenapkhertan, thx17:35
crevetoralterego: and there are only 6 more N9's ;)17:35
alteregocrevetor: ;)17:35
alteregoI'm waiting for 9pm tonight! :)17:36
alteregoIt's annoying, because all the easy codes were taken :P17:36
alteregoWhich is completely unfair.17:36
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: please instruct me prperly :-D Sorry I don't get it what you're asking me to do17:36
alteregoBut probably planned for this twitter teaser daily session.17:36
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: ah, well, build a kernel and see what happens if you tamper with the .ko's17:36
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: ie, overwriting the package17:37
crevetoralterego: same here. Still haven't understood what the last one was. The music of the video ?17:37
alteregoI thought it was an anagram of bickle17:37
crevetoralterego: I agree it's unfair. If I had been the first to know about the contest I would have an N917:38
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: javispedro tried to build and run the STOCK kernel, without any alterations, modulo buildtime in uname -a. He didn't build modules though. Result: instant brick. Device not even enabling display17:38
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yes yes i know17:38
alteregocrevetor: indeed, we all guessed the number plate of the taxi, and the PRND2117:38
crevetoralterego: I have an alarm set on my phone for 8:50 (And I love the alarm on the N950)17:39
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I can't compile a kernel right now, as my HDD is at 98% so no empty space for installing the SDK17:39
crevetoralterego: yep17:39
alteregocrevetor: :)17:39
khertan1what i hate about qml is that most tutorial are outdated ... or false :
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i'm looking into it and have gotten somewhere with it17:40
khertan1alterego: crevetor: it s the word written on the taxi driver jacket17:40
crevetoralterego: funny thing is that I'm less interrested in the N9 now that I've played with the N950 I watch the videos and I'm like "meh I can plays with that interface whenever I want" The only appealing thing is the sleeker design (and the NFC maybe)17:40
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: like finding out things to do and things not to :P17:40
khertan1alterego: crevetor: completly unreadable if you didn't rework and refine the video17:40
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: wow cool17:40
crevetorkhertan1: really ? Shit I thought of that and then I was like "who can even read that anyways"17:40
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i can say as much as you're supposed to be able to flash your own kernel, so anything beyond that is bugs :P17:41
khertan1crevetor: my crappy text recognition in video read only 1 char17:41
alteregokhertan1: oh,right.17:41
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: and that'd disable aegis17:41
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: obviousy, and yes that's promising actually17:41
crevetorkhertan1: and then I thought I was a geek for making mplayer output each frame in a  separate png ;)17:41
khertan1crevetor: i use mplayer ... do output each frame17:42
khertan1then use my python ocr script which was made previously for captcha reading17:42
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i've gotten as far as getting told that my warranty is void, which is what is expected to happen, and then boot whatever kernel is there :P17:42
crevetorkhertan1: the captchas for n9seconds ?17:42
khertan1and i got 5 of the 14 already found code ...17:43
khertan1but not more17:43
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: what? nolo tells you "warranty void"? LOL17:43
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: well, technically even using flasher on n900 voids your warranty17:43
khertan1crevetor: no it s a general python module i m making for bypassing captcha17:43
khertan1i didn't use it on the nokia website17:43
Stskeepsif i flash back to harmattan it disappears, so no idea if it records it17:43
crevetorkhertan1: neat :)17:43
DocScrutinizerho cares17:43
khertan1so even if i didn't found it ... i'm happy that my ocr works :)17:44
alteregoDocScrutinizer: what warranty? :D17:44
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I'm looking forward to a nice terse howto17:44
khertan1it s far from perfect ... but enough17:44
alteregoI suppose it's one of the good things about us not having any.17:44
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: hence why i'm investigating this.. single-boot meego ce is a definate target for us17:44
crevetorkhertan1: yeah sounds neat.17:45
crevetorkhertan1: Where are you located ?17:45
khertan1DocScrutinizer: it s not a warranty ... it s a reverse one ... look at the contract ... you paid if you destroy your toy :)17:45
DocScrutinizerkhertan1: so what?17:45
khertan1DocScrutinizer :)17:45
khertan1DocScrutinizer just jokking17:45
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: it gets complicated because we can't just say "boot to the microsd", we need to flash a rootfs and so on, so it's not as easy as it has been17:45
Stskeepsand rootfs is in fiasco format17:45
khertan1crevetor: i live in north of paris ... france :)17:45
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: but it seems possible17:46
khertan1ok ... time to go back to code17:46
crevetorkhertan1: oh your french ? So am I. Where exactly ?17:46
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: aiui flasher refuses to flash unsigned or incorrectly signed non-matching images17:46
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: nah, you've just been unlucky17:46
crevetordid anyone open the n950 yet ?17:46
crevetoror has anyone opened the N950 yet ?17:47
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: for developer mode it's more open17:47
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: that's why we couldn't flash a new image with all the proprietary crap like Skype etc, even if we got it somehow17:47
DocScrutinizercrevetor: I looked at battery and why the SIM cover was so hard to close17:48
crevetordocScrutinizer: there's no hidden sdcard slot right ?17:48
deimosno :(17:48
DocScrutinizercrevetor: I also had a close look at USB receptacle and been pleased by what I've seen17:48
crevetordocScrutinizer: it's not surface mounted17:49
mgedminthere's a tiny bump in the plastic right next to the USB slot on my n95017:49
DocScrutinizernope, thru-hole17:49
mgedminI wonder if I caused it somehow17:49
crevetordocScrutinizer: cool17:50
DocScrutinizerat least it looks like it's thru-hole17:50
alteregoI have 3 small dents and a small scratch17:51
DocScrutinizermgedmin: no bump here - but how could you cause sth like that?17:51
alteregoI accidentally dropped it after having it for one day :D17:51
DocScrutinizeralterego: \o/17:51
DocScrutinizeralterego: hinge survived?17:51
alteregoSure, it fell 2 feet onto concrete.17:51
alteregoSo not too bad.17:51
alteregoIt's actually perfectly fine, lucky it landed back down though :D17:52
mgedminit's the plastic edge right next to the slot, and it looks a little bent17:52
mgedminor maybe it's a manufacturing defect17:52
mgedminI almost dropped it once, but caught it in the air17:52
crevetorwhat do you guys think about the "slide out" screen sturdyness ?17:52
khertan1does there is a way to populate dynamically items in a VisualItemModel ?17:52
DocScrutinizermgedmin: or somebody been not that gentle when opening the backcover17:52
alteregocrevetor: seems fine to me, but opening it is a bit fiddly imo ..17:52
crevetoralterego: yeah I'm kinda scared I'm gonna break it at some point17:53
mgedminI've a complaint about the mail client: it doesn't show me the body of emails sent by cron17:53
alteregocrevetor: I open it by pulling on the top and gently sliding it out and up.17:53
alteregoI've seen people open it by just pushing from the bottom and it looks like the screen will fly off.17:53
DocScrutinizerI'm usually opening the kbd by lifting screen at upper end landscape17:53
* mgedmin pushes it gently from the bottom, and the slide opens up17:53
alteregoAlso though, I've not really used the keyboard much :/17:54
alteregoExcept when SSHing17:54
mgedminthe vkb is surprisingly usable17:54
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, exactly the same as me.17:54
mgedmindoesn't leave much screen space to xterm itself, though17:54
DocScrutinizerin landscape the vkbd is kinda fine, in portrait it's outright unusable17:55
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: its usable, its just your huge hands :P17:55
crevetoralterego: I push on the bottom the feeling is really nice :)17:55
crevetormgedmin: totally I was surprised too17:56
crevetorHAve you guys tried swiping the terminal ?17:56
mgedminI wonder if it would be possible to add arrow keys to the vkb...17:57
mgedminor modify the toolbar17:57
cpscottiam I the only one thinking that QML's way to report errors (SegFault) isn't that "quick" nor intelligent.. :/17:57
hiemanshufor some reason my app doesn't show up on the launcher, I can open it just fine when I go to search and type the name, but nothing on the home screen, apparently it failed because it couldn't find libqt4-webkit17:57
mgedmincpscotti, ain't C++ fun17:57
crevetorJust whiped out my Atrix 4G I wonder who I'm gonna give it to17:57
lcukcpscotti, "On Error Resume Next" is not a better design pattern either :P17:57
cpscottilcuk, well.. but at least tell me something.. seg faults are scary!17:58
cpscottiwhen I first read about qml I thought I'd never see a seg fault using it.. :/17:59
lcukcopious debug lines!17:59
lcukbug 20099 just crashes the calculator in meego17:59
MeeGoBotBug nor, High, ---, marko.saukko, NEW, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." .17:59
lcukit does not even get a segfault17:59
lcukit is like "arghhh no, fractions I can't do fractions"18:00
DocScrutinizerbtw WTF for sorting in >> cat /proc/mtd <<  ->
cpscottilcuk, I didn't know about that one.. haha lol!18:03
DocScrutinizer0 3 1 2 5 4 6  seems the real sequence of mtd* on NAND, judging by start addr18:04
DocScrutinizerif I'm not mistaken18:04
DocScrutinizererrr scratch that18:05
DocScrutinizersize, not start addr18:05
Stskeepsyes, i was wondering if you had lost it for a second18:05
DocScrutinizerstrings /dev/mtd1 is "fun"18:10
DocScrutinizermoslo is empty18:11
DocScrutinizeras expected18:11
Stskeepsyeah, you fill that in yourself18:11
DocScrutinizerwonder what's mtd6 "omap2-onenand"18:11
Stskeepsprobably the rest of the nand, or part of emmc18:12
DocScrutinizerstrings /dev/mtd6ro|wc -l  ->19440618:14
crevetorDo you guys know if someone is already making NFC-enabled business cards ?18:16
crevetorkhertan1: htanks18:17
crevetorkhertan1: so where exactly do you live ? (I'm frenc too)18:18
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khertan1crevetor: au nord de meaux ... mais je bosse sur panam18:25
khertan1so ... good bye all !18:25
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* lardman also heads off home18:26
lardmancatch you all tomorrow18:26
* lardman remembers to download chan logs before he goes though ;)18:26
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DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: good18:31
DocScrutinizerit worked :-D18:31
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: what worked?18:36
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DocScrutinizerthe psychological trick to make lardman remember to download chanlog when he leaves office18:37
DocScrutinizerit's a simple trick but usually works18:38
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lcukn950 screen seems to be mostly smudge resistant18:53
lcukhowever the cover for the camera is not18:53
lcuksmeary photos ahoy!18:53
hiemanshuwell yeah, a cleaning the screen with a cloth or your tee, cleans it like it was new18:54
hiemanshubut is scartch resistant? :P18:54
hiemanshuis it*18:54
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rm_workhrm i was noticing the opposite? that is is basically a fingerprint magnet19:17
cpscottirm_work, hiemanshu it all depends on how greasy is your hand/pocket/environment.... :D19:18
hiemanshupretty clean here :P19:18
tommamy device always has clear screen after i take it from my pocket19:18
lcuki took photo with the camera and it was hazy until I cleaned the camera cover19:18
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hiemanshuhey Venemo19:24
Venemohey hiemanshu, what's up?19:24
rm_workwoah wtf19:24
rm_workwith the screen off, and looking at an angle, it has an X pattern all over it19:25
rm_workwhats with that19:25
Stskeepssame with me19:25
rm_workdo you know what causes that? :P19:26
rm_workis it something to do with the way the touch works?19:26
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Venemorm_work, what are you talking about?19:27
rm_workVenemo: turn off screen... hold phone at like 75 degree angle, so light reflects off it19:27
rm_workthere's a grid of "X" (or could be a grid of "<   >"19:28
rm_workyeah looks more like  ><    ><   ><    ><19:28
VenemoI can't see anything like that19:28
Venemoeven if I clean my figerprints19:29
crevetorsame here19:29
hiemanshuVenemo: playing with my N95019:29
rm_workall over the screen, like 12 rows horizontal by a lot more vertical19:29
Venemohiemanshu, you liking it?19:29
hiemanshucaant see anything19:29
rm_workcrevetor: same here as in, you see it?19:29
hiemanshuVenemo: yeah, seems decent19:29
rm_workit's hard to notice19:29
Venemohiemanshu, the hardware is very decent yes19:29
crevetorrm_work: as I don't see it19:29
rm_workthe angle has to be just right19:30
rm_workand look at it from landscape19:30
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hiemanshurm_work: screen on or off?19:33
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rm_work<rm_work> with the screen off, and looking at an angle, it has an X pattern all over it19:34
rm_workyes, screen off19:34
SpeedEvilThat's the capacitive thingy19:34
rm_workok so yes, has to do with the touch stuff, figured :P19:35
Venemoachipa, since when is "unix:!symbian:!maemo5" == harmattan?19:35
tommathats mac =)19:38
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GeneralAntillesAh, Qt SDK is currently at 7.2GB19:53
GeneralAntillesNo wonder my boot drive feels smaller.19:53
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DocScrutinizerhow could I miss to notice ?19:59
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Did you get your tab group working?20:02
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, haven't tried again yet.20:02
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ha, told ya20:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: hi20:03
MohammadAGtold #maemo about it, but never knew about develsh20:03
fiferboyHas anyone here successfully created a Harmattan repo in OBS?20:03
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: note this is *not* any solution how to get rid of this rather useless "security" stuff20:04
Elleofiferboy: yeah, things are a bit broken at the moment now it seems though20:04
Elleopackages aren't getting delivered into the repo even when they do get built20:04
fiferboyElleo: I was wondering if something changed between creating my repo and trying to build in it20:04
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I don't think there's a reason to have security on the N95020:04
fiferboyElleo: Ah, that is exactly the problem I am having20:04
fiferboyGood to know it is not my setup20:05
Elleofiferboy: yeah, it's not just a harmattan issue either, it's happening with other targets too it seems20:05
Elleoso just a matter of waiting until someone gets a chance to fix it really20:05
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nobody seems to notice there *is no* additional security in your virus requered to do a develsh command to allow bad things. ONLY added security is by *restricting* powers of any user on device, and to disable this, you need to leave the system - I.E. do sth via flasher, or enter a password, or sth like that which a malware can't do20:06
fiferboyI'll wait a while and try triggering a rebuild20:06
fiferboyThanks for the info, Elleo20:06
Elleono problem20:06
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I wonder if the N9 will have develsh then20:07
DocScrutinizerdevelsh grants *some* more power to user, but definitely not all power20:08
piggzis anyone using the meego obs to build for harmatten?20:10
mzanettipiggz: not yet (me at least). Is there already a repository that can be added to harmattan?20:12
mzanettisomething like maemo-extras?20:12
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piggzmzanetti: i dont think so yet, but you can use your own home repo20:12
mzanettihmmm... ok... so for now it doesn't really give me more advantages compared to just build the .deb in qtcreator20:13
piggzbut, i cant add meego:1.2:harmatten as a repo, although it appears to say it has added it, it doesn appear20:13
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fiferboypiggz: I had to add the Harmattan repo through the raw editor, Jaffa had instructions somewhere20:14
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piggzfiferboy: i just found a forum post saying to add armv7el only, noy i58620:15
fiferboypiggz: But it looks like OBS is not publishing the builds right now due to an error20:15
fiferboypiggz: Yeah, that's the post I meant.  I used Jaffa's raw code20:15
fiferboypiggz: It may be the same error preventing builds from being published is keeping repos from being added20:16
mzanettipiggz: btw. have you made any progress on your keyboard detection stuff?20:17
piggzmzanetti: no, i havnt looked at it again20:17
piggzfiferboy: the repo added when i used the raw editor20:18
mzanettipiggz: To me it looks like QSystemDeviceInfo has the information you need20:18
piggzmzanetti: thx, i will look20:18
fiferboypiggz: I guess the easy picker isn't working still20:18
piggzmzanetti: certainly looks good
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi: \o/20:24
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: thanks20:24
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DocScrutinizerhmm, now what's the expert's advice how to install it the most easy way?20:26
DocScrutinizerc&p the URL to ssh whet ?20:26
DocScrutinizeror use Web browser to surf to that webpage?20:27
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djszapiUnfortunately, c-obs is buggy and it cannot push the debian packages to the repository, but this will be the place:
rlinfatiuff, in "16gb" you can not store all ovi maps for offline use :( i need a n950-64gb :)20:31
rlinfatibtw... you can use ovi maps without register nokia account20:32
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi: "will" as in >I'll look there later and eventually it will show up there<? I already was about to come back here to report about another fail of mine20:38
DocScrutinizerclicked thru all the tabs and links on that website and didn't find anything that looked like it might install on N95020:39
DocScrutinizerexcept which simply times out20:39
djszapiyeah, they have bugs. I am not sure when they can publish it. I can send you the debian file, if you would like to have it right now, but yeah, that would be the place what I gave you, when they fix the bugs.20:40
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rlinfatisomeone is using oauth in harmattan ? or i need package its ? or usa as static lib ?20:47
djszapiplease package it20:48
djszapialso polkit-qt ;)20:48
djszapiI would appreciate it at least =p20:48
rlinfatiyes... but kqoauth ? qoauth? ... etc.. :/ how a modern mobile OS not have a oauth library :(20:49
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fralsfuck sake someone is already using frals on nokia developer :<21:23
Stskeepsisn't it yourself?21:23
fralsdid a reset password for it just in case it is me :D21:23
fralswow, it was me! never knew i signed up there21:24
lcuklol frals21:25
* lcuk wonders how the world would cope with 2 frals21:25
Venemofrals :D21:32
Venemolcuk, for that matter, how could the world cope with 2 lcuks? :P21:32
VenemoStskeeps, out of pure curiousity, could you tell me the status of MeeGo CE on da N950?21:32
StskeepsVenemo: we're ironing out some MOSLO stuff21:33
Venemowhat is MOSLO?21:33
Stskeepsdual boot loader thingie21:33
Venemookay, and how's MeeGo CE going on it?21:33
Stskeepsperforming really well21:35
Venemothat is nice21:35
Venemodo the phone features work?21:35
Venemookay, it's only a question of time then until I stuff my N950 with TRUE MeeGo :)21:36
Venemowhich reminds me, I have my N900 still, so I'll probably stuff that with MeeGo too very soom21:37
antman8969does anyone know of a class reference for the come.meego qml components?21:39
GeneralAntillesantman8969, ?21:40
GeneralAntillesShould be buried in the Harmattan stuff.21:40
GeneralAntillesHard to link directly to, though.21:40
Mekand the sources... (in /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego21:40
antman8969i think the sources will do. been looking through that site forever...21:40
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djszapi_Venemo: I am sorry, I have been really busy today. I think Christian is right about that.21:41
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Venemodjszapi, Christian is right about what?21:58
djszapi_what he wrote.21:59
Venemodjszapi, you said that it is possible, and it's just a bug in QtCreator21:59
djszapi_well, you cannot copy thing as non-root into system folders.21:59
djszapi_running a binary should be alright'ish though if you do not need desktop and after things, I guess.22:00
Venemoall right22:00
Venemothanks djszapi_ :)22:00
djszapi_I am not that much of expertise though, thus I sent a mail to Elena, our architect (who is not at Nokia anymore though). :)22:01
Venemothe architect of Aegis left the team?22:01
Venemothat sounds interesting22:01
djszapi_almost everybody left the security team, but it is true for the whole organization in the mobile area.22:02
Venemowhat? everybody left?22:02
gri_the accounts-ui guy also left (got an email reply when I asked for help)22:02
djszapi_Venemo: who cares about windows phone development :D22:03
Venemodjszapi_, :D22:03
StskeepsVenemo: a lot of people left, many to intel22:03
Venemodjszapi_, don't mention it... I've got a paid project for WP722:03
VenemoStskeeps, better to Intel than else22:03
* djszapi_ thinks Intel is not any better than Nokia.22:04
Venemodjszapi_, why not?22:04
djszapi_they chose selinux for meego22:04
djszapi_and quite a few other things. They do not support KDE any longer since the meego thing.22:04
DocScrutinizerecho "open kbd, lock device with powerbutton!"; cd /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032; sleep 30; echo disabled >engine3_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4 5; do echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel$i/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo disabled >engine1_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4; do echo 0 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo run >engine1_mode; echo run >engine3_mode22:05
djszapi_They rejected almost all the KDE proposals at the meego conference and so on.22:05
Venemodjszapi_, can you tell me what you have against SELinux?22:05
djszapi_Venemo: try to just configure it and let me know if you could manage it this year :D22:06
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: I shall remind you...22:06
Venemodjszapi_, it had been working for so much time on my Fedora, I never had any problems22:06
Venemodjszapi_, there is even a GUI for its configuration!22:06
Venemodjszapi_, is there a GUI for configuring Aegis?22:06
djszapi_Venemo: If I had time, I would look for the relevant linux kernel thread.22:06
djszapi_where even Linus was completely against selinux :)22:07
djszapi_and we proposed a nice meego security model, called smack. Intel thought it is not okay, they will use selinux, ok no comment :)22:07
djszapi_Venemo: it is not aegis v. selinux arguement. It is more like smack v. selinux :) There was also a long discussion with Ryan about it on the mailing list, but the linux security people ... did not really appreciate what Ryan wanted22:09
djszapi_but stopping supporting KDE is a bigger fault to me.22:09
djszapi_anyway, it is just my opinion :)22:09
Venemodjszapi_, umm, well, I thinkt he community can support KDE, what does Intel have to do with that?22:10
djszapi_financial support of the sprints, events.22:10
djszapi_and it is really not nice they rejected all the KDE talk proposals for the meego conference.22:11
Venemohm, well22:13
Venemoat least they aren't abandoning the platform...22:13
DocScrutinizerVenemo: test my "KIT light"!22:16
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: I am not sure touchsupport will work fine in mc :)22:17
DocScrutinizerhey, I'm not concerned about touch support22:17
VenemoDocScrutinizer, what's that?22:17
DocScrutinizerecho "open kbd, lock device with powerbutton!"; cd /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032; sleep 30; echo disabled >engine3_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4 5; do echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel$i/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo disabled >engine1_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4; do echo 0 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo run >engine1_mode; echo run >engine3_mode22:17
Venemohm, is there any way I can paste this in there?22:18
DocScrutinizersure, to a ssh session ;-)22:19
* vandenoever wonders how to put attachments and images on posts on forum.meego.com22:19
DocScrutinizeryou didn't think I typed that on device, did you? :-D22:19
crevetordocScrutinizer: is that to get the kb leds working ?22:19
hiemanshuvandenoever: upload it to and use the [IMG] tag22:20
hiemanshuthe LEDs on mine work fine22:20
DocScrutinizerhere too22:20
crevetorMine don't...22:20
hiemanshubut calling is fucked up22:20
DocScrutinizergiven ALS doesn't see too much light22:20
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I'm right now on wincrap... can't really do SSH from here22:21
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I haven't reinstalled my Linux yet :(22:21
hiemanshuVenemo: putty22:21
vandenoeverhiemanshu: this post has images served from the forum server:
VenemoI'll give it a shot22:21
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: mh would be funy on N9 since there is no hw kb, nor arrow buttons on the virtual keyboard :)22:21
djszapi_* mc would be..22:22
hiemanshuvandenoever: advanced reply, scroll below the text area, you should find 'Manage Attachments' or something like that22:22
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DocScrutinizerooh yep22:22
DocScrutinizerdjszapi_: the missing arrow buttons are a mega fail22:22
VenemoDocScrutinizer, agreed...22:23
hiemanshuno hw kbd is a fail22:23
djszapi_DocScrutinizer: yep, but the Harmattan Ui Designers....22:23
djszapi_hiemanshu: actually, it is a success for me22:23
djszapi_I like the VK much better22:23
DocScrutinizeroh yeah, don't get me started about UI designers22:23
hiemanshudjszapi_: I like HW kbs, so I can feel the buttons and know what I am typing while staring at the teacher in class :P22:24
vandenoeverhiemanshu: thanks, just uploaded a png (that got converted to jpg, but ok)22:24
DocScrutinizero/ bbl22:25
hiemanshuis there any image at all to reflash the N950?22:25
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, for a brief time, the keyboard lights light up and the LED flashes quicker22:26
VenemoDocScrutinizer, is that the desired effect?22:26
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DocScrutinizerthe desired effect is to show how to control LEDs22:27
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I see :)22:27
djszapi_hiemanshu: how is this feeling different for HW or V keyboard ?22:28
djszapi_you can get used to the VK as well22:28
vandenoeverwhat's a good place to upload deb files for n950? source code is on gitorious22:28
djszapi_vandenoever: why don't you put it into c-obs ?22:31
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vandenoeverdjszapi_: because i dont know what that is22:35
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kimjuthe harmattan build seems to be still work in progress. if configured as specified in it builds things ok, but doesn't publish the resulting packages22:40
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kimju"Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created"22:41
DocScrutinizerkimju: djszapi said there are bugs22:47
DocScrutinizer.deb missing22:48
kimjuyeah, noticed the comment. so it's not just me :)22:49
DocScrutinizerbtw djszapi, you know mc has a "train buttons" function. So you could define whatever you like for arrow keys. E.g ctrl+u/d/l/r22:50
crevetorlet's say I have a local project that's git versionned and I want to build it in osc. How can I do that ?22:56
crevetorI tried osc mkpac name_of_the_package22:56
crevetorbut it complains about the directory being git versionned22:56
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crevetoralterego: it's almost 9 ;)22:58
alteregoOh yeah .22:58
apolhi guys, I need to use cmake to compile my project and the package I've found depends on libarchive1 which can't be found on the repositories22:59
apolany clue?22:59
crevetoralterego: shit I think the next clue is actually tomorrow23:05
crevetoralterego: yeah...23:06
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alteregoOh well, I'll see you the same time tomorrow ;)23:19
crevetoralterego: see ya23:20
djszapi_Venemo: heh, I have just gotten the answer from Elena.23:23
crevetorcould some of you try this out and tell me if it's accurate on your device ?23:32
mgedminoooh, me, me, I want to try it!23:32
mgedmincan't ssh to my n950, going to reboot the damn router23:33
crevetoryou can just browse there with your N950 and it will install it23:34
mgedminyou want me to type that URL in by hand? no chance!23:34
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lcukmgedmin, :P23:35
lcuklardman|gone, ping23:35
mgedminhey, is anyone able to position the cursor at the very beginning of the browser's URL bar?23:35
mgedminare my fingers too fat?23:35
crevetormgedmin: Yeah I can23:36
crevetormgedmin: hold your finger still and a magnifying class comes up23:36
mgedminno it doesn't23:36
mgedminalthough I remember seeing it *once*23:36
mgedmingot it!23:36 ==
mgedminoh, is unhappy about the trailing /23:38
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mgedminok, worked now23:38
mgedminmalware blah blah I agree23:38
djszapi_apol: when OBS gets it done:
mgedmin<insert long description, indented with spaces> :)23:39
crevetormgedmin: can you give me the url ?23:39
mgedminwhy does installation take so long? apt?23:39
crevetormgedmin: probably apt23:39
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mgedminI have it installed now23:39
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mgedmincrevetor, are you sure you're rotating the arrow in the right direction?23:40
crevetorpretty sure23:40
crevetorOh noze23:41
crevetorSHit It just remembered what I did on my other project23:41
crevetorlet me fix that23:41
mgedminI turn right x degrees, the arrow turns right 2x degrees to the same side23:41
mgedminalso, it seems to be off by 90 degrees -- when I'm in landscape mode23:42
crevetorit's actually 360-azimuth23:42
mgedminseems accurate in portrait23:42
mgedminat least when the phone is oriented with the top part of the screen pointing north, the compass arrow also points north23:43
mgedminthe statusline says "accuracy: 100%"23:43
vandenoevercrevetor: looks nice, but it's wrong like others said23:43
mgedminI assume that accuracy measurement comes from the hardware?23:43
crevetormgedmin: yes23:43
crevetormgedmin: comes with the sensor reading23:44
* mgedmin nods23:44
*** Noobmonk3y has joined #harmattan23:45
crevetorit si wrong in landscape for sure...23:45
crevetorOk let me fix that and repackage23:45
Venemodjszapi_, what is the answer?23:47
djszapi_alterego: I pushed the screen package to build on c-obs, let us see23:48
mgedminooh, screen23:50
crevetormgedmin: could you reinstall it ?23:55
crevetorI just uploaded an updated version23:55
achipaVenemo: that's a joke. a bad one.23:57

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