IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-07-19

GAN900gone be a lot of ellipses.00:00
DocScrutinizerin appstarter? yeah nice ;-P00:00
javispedrosensorfw only polls the accelerometer00:00
DocScrutinizer""please use WidgetGa..."00:00
javispedroit is each and every app which calculates what its orientation should be depending on whatever logic they want00:01
javispedrowhich is why I was saying that uniform rotation lock in Harmattan is impossible, and I mentioned this weeks ago00:01
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: obviously sensorFW has to provide a physical and a logical orientations, and the two are largely unrelated00:02
javispedroit also the way it will work on my SDL -- you listen to the accelerometer and notify system which orientation "your logic" decides --00:02
javispedroand also the way it works on WebOS.00:02
javispedro(which Harmattan is clearly based upon ;)) j/k00:02
javispedro(but only this last sentence is the joke)00:02
DocScrutinizerthe whole situation is a bad joke00:03
JaffaVenemo: Memento00:04
* Jaffa goes +1 on his naming things doodah00:04
DocScrutinizerI mean I'm not the ueber system architect so nobody else ever before could have noticed that - so why is there no clean definitive advisory on that?00:04
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I want orientation based on face recognition00:04
DocScrutinizerJaffa: fair enough - and for sure your orientation wouldn't care at all about accelerometers then00:05
VenemoJaffa,  :)00:05
DocScrutinizerand also work in spaceshuttle00:05
Venemocurrent ideas are MemGame and YourMemory00:05
VenemoMemento sounds nice :)00:05
DocScrutinizerJaffa: actually that's a brilliant idea00:05
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Also solves the issue when I'm holding the device in bed, lying down and it decides to be portrait (when I want it to be landscape)00:06
DocScrutinizerJaffa: the cam already *has* face detection00:06
DocScrutinizerJaffa: I bet the face orientation comes for free with that00:06
DocScrutinizerJaffa: exactly00:07
javispedroJaffa: knowing the rules behind MTF orientation detection serves me well there ;) (on inverted landscape it will be on portrait if last orientation was portrait)00:07
rm_workGAN900: i'm legitimately excited about writing a backlight widget (if someone doesn't beat me to it)00:08
rm_workwith the source opened for the MCE lib, and the neat way the statusbar applets are oriented, it should be a breeze to just shove it under the volume one :P00:09
rm_workand significantly less config necessary00:09
rm_workwho was it that was also doing this?00:09
rm_workI forget00:09
DocScrutinizermay I dare and boldly introduce a int user-screen-orientation, range 0..360 unit degrees00:09
rm_worki guess if you beat me to it, so be it, i'll just work on something else00:09
JaffaDocScrutinizer: :)00:14
rm_workDocScrutinizer: rofl00:16
rm_workdoes xrandr let me do it? :P00:17
lcukrm_work, have you seen the n8 brightness control?00:17
rm_worklcuk: nope00:17
lcukit is quite nifty00:17
rm_workhonestly i'd be happy with a copy of the volume control slider that controls brightness instead00:17
rm_worklet's see what it has00:17
rm_workyou got a screenshot?00:17
lcuka mo00:18
javispedrorotation is not done using xrandr00:18
javispedrobut if you patched libMTF, you could introduce arbitrary degree-precision rotation support00:18
javispedroso yes, you could have 45ยบ rotation00:18
DocScrutinizerrm_work: I always though xrandr was all about that, yes00:19
rm_worklibMTF is what it uses?00:19
javispedro(hopefully Qt components either follow the same MTF logic by copy'n'paste or link with MTF)00:19
lcukcrap, i meant
javispedrolcuk: what a big n8! ;)00:20
rm_worklol was about to ask00:20
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: smebody should push to make sure this is going to happen00:20
rm_worklcuk: ok so, what am I looking at here00:21
lcukthe first or the second pic? :)00:21
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I already pushed enough when I called for xrandr rotation, I'm now in complacent mode.00:21
lcukrm_work, that is the brightness controller on the n8, thats all00:22
javispedroit works. enough for me. now keep it stable for a few versions so that I can code SDL against that "rotation way".00:22
rm_worklcuk: right but how does it work...00:22
lcukits just a slider with some info graphic to help00:22
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rm_worklcuk: ah ok, i thought it might be more complicated than that00:22
rm_workit was not immediately apparent00:22
lcukdon't overthink, its symbian :P00:22
rm_workthought maybe you had to pick a circle or something00:22
rm_workseems like it is just taking extra space for the heck of it00:22
rm_worki mean, i could include something like just the bottom strip (black to white) for reference00:23
rm_workbut it'd probably look a bit out of place00:23
rm_worklet me look at the widgets i can use again00:23
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: is there a specific ticket against QtM or QML or whatever that needs to get opened? I have no overview about which level of system does/provides/fails-on what wrt orientation00:24
lcuki have to say, tracy is wanting this n8, it is a well built phone o_O00:24
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you might want to open a feature request for providing a way to lock an orientation externally in a MTF app.00:25
DocScrutinizerseems like xrandr, if implemented, would provide user-screen-orientation, but as it's not it's up to anybody's guess how to determine what's the system's logical orientation now00:26
javispedroxrandr will NOT be implemented00:26
javispedroI pushed it neraly half a year ago.00:26
javispedroeven arjan agreed with me.00:26
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I might have helped if only I knew about it00:27
VenemoI thought Maemo 5 used XRandR00:27
DocScrutinizerhelped on pushing00:27
javispedroVenemo: yes, Harmattan doesn't.00:27
DocScrutinizerbut probably just meh00:27
Venemomeh indeed.00:27
javispedroDocScrutinizer: when the _kernel guy_ agrees with me and they don't implement it, well..00:27
javispedroto give them a break, I understand that the rotation animation with xrandr is... hard.00:28
* DocScrutinizer turns away, deeply depressed00:28
xerxes2have a problem with raw qml, it shows a grey bar at the bottom00:28
xerxes2anyone else seen that?00:28
xerxes2fullscreen works fine though00:29
* DocScrutinizer leaving room, mumbling "F*.-# animation, better do nothing than a simple thing?"00:29
javispedroDocScrutinizer: still, a hook in MTF for an external orientation lock (gconf key, etc.) is probably a trivial feature request00:29
javispedroand if we can the major toolkits to agree on such a key00:30
javispedroit would be pretty decent.00:30
javispedrootherwise, you can still probably lock orientation if you lie to MTF apps about:00:31
javispedrothe accelerometer and the keyboard open/closed state00:31
javispedroand the status of tv out00:31
DocScrutinizeryeah super!!! my spirit level will be as amused about that as your AR (oops was that SpeedEvil 's AR?)00:31
javispedrowhich are the inputs to their orientation detection algorithm00:31
xerxes2so raw qml is locked to landcape always?00:31
javispedroxerxes2: as is raw qwidgets.00:32
rm_workwait, is there TV-out on this too?00:32
xerxes2i see thanks00:32
javispedrorm_work: via headphone plug, N900-style.00:32
rm_workdo I just need to use N900 cable for it?00:32
DocScrutinizerbbl, need a break00:32
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DocScrutinizertested it, same quality as N900 basically00:32
javispedrocya DocScrutinizer00:33
rm_workoh hey while i'm here, someone tell me how i should be taking care of the battery in this think00:33
* rm_work waves at DocScrutinizer00:33
rm_workshould I be trying to keep it charged constantly (i'm at work or at home with a computer 90% of the day) so i could just leave it plugged in most of the time00:33
rm_workis that better for the battery than letting it drain every single day and plugging it in at night? or is it irrelevant00:34
rm_workso keep it as fully charged as possible00:34
DocScrutinizerbme is rather "sane" (for whatever metrics of sane) on N95000:35
DocScrutinizerkeep it "charging"00:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: found one of the ML threads about rotation:
javispedroNovember 2010, more than half a year :)00:36
javispedrohave to go, cya00:42
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, MeeGo 1.3 will swap to wayland anyway, so they will have a good excuse why they can do such nonsense.01:19
DocScrutinizer51well, if everyting else fails, then just let's lennart and introduce the orientation daemon. API is dbus, apps will ask about orientation there and everything else the app devels don't need to care about. pusblish this NOW, and hype it on the fora and ML, and in wiki. ship an example app using it01:20
MohammadAGVenemo, I wonder how MeeGo 1.3 and Harmattan will work together01:20
VenemoMohammadAG, in no way01:20
VenemoMohammadAG, if Nokia engineers come to their senses, then Harmattan+1 might be based on MeeGo...01:21
DocScrutinizer51Venemo: just that there *are no more* Nokia engineers to do harmattan+101:26
Venemothere will be01:26
Venemoa "disruptive" (or whatever) device01:26
DocScrutinizer51indeed it is01:26
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DocScrutinizer51somebody introduced the FOSS idea to Nokia and persuaded them to try it. 770, N800,810, N900 and Nokia started to hate it. N9 and they buried it for good01:29
Venemobut I don't understand why.01:30
Venemothey could have dominated the entire market if they got it right01:31
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DocScrutinizer51now Nokia is back to "the serious business" - with winP701:31
Venemotheir attitude is the same. the managers are nuts, and they don't care about their customers01:31
VenemoI only feel sorry for their employees who are trying to make something out of all of that01:32
DocScrutinizer51it probably sucks being a Nokia employee these days01:33
ieatlintyou're overthinking it01:36
ieatlintnokia has/had a LOT more symbian guys than maemo guys01:36
Venemobut they didn't manage to get Symbian right either01:37
ieatlinttelling all of the symbian guys that this new thing called maemo is going to usurp you makes them fight back01:37
ieatlintthey did, and everyone lost01:37
Venemoit's always the small details and the idiotic management decisions that ruin their stuff01:37
SpeedEvilThe silly part is that they probably had plenty manpower to do both.01:44
SpeedEvilThe peak in feb is around rumors of MSFT acquisition of nokia?01:46
* SpeedEvil forgets.01:46
TronicThe stock has gone down steadily ever since Feb11.01:46
TronicFeb11 = burning platform + WP7 announcement.01:46
SpeedEvilyeah - I know.01:46
SpeedEvilI think June was the detailed timescale for WP701:47
SpeedEvil(end of 2011)01:47
TronicIt will keep going down until the board announces a strategy shift and Elop is fired.01:47
GAN900What a profoundly useless browser.01:47
SpeedEvilTronic: Indeed.01:47
SpeedEvilI think selling nokia short is still a good plan.01:48
TronicUnless some other company (Microsoft or some Chinese) makes a buy offer in attempt to overtake the company.01:48
TronicShorting might be a good idea still, yes, but I am not willing to risk my money on it either way.01:48
SpeedEvilThe price is getting low enough that some of the big chinese makers might consider it worthwhile01:49
TronicEspecially the dumbphone segment (tech, factories, patents, marketing channels) should be interesting for the chinese.01:50
Venemothink about N900->N9(50)... there aren't THAT many things that they could have added to make us all buy it01:51
Venemobut they didn't, because the management is stupid01:51
Tronic(not to mention the Nokia brand, which still has value)01:51
VenemoTronic ++01:51
SpeedEvilVenemo: ? - what do you mean - that the n950 is saleable?01:51
TronicMicrosoft on the other hand might be planning to buy the smartphone unit and start manufacturing Microsoft branded smartphones but that doesn't seem so likely anymore.01:52
VenemoSpeedEvil, I mean that they should have added some features (mostly minor details) to Harmattan that could have made us all buy the N901:53
TronicWell, I'm off to bed. I guess we'll see what the future brings, eventually.01:53
VenemoSpeedEvil, about not selling the N950, they made another mistake.01:53
TronicMy estimate is for N9 to become available Sep-Oct but since the release is nerfed, it is not going to be the big revolution it should be (I am talking iPhone 5 killer here).01:54
SpeedEvilVenemo: ah01:54
SpeedEvilIndeed - the 'right' way would be to go to Now - for everyone that's actually coded or ported an app - offer them a n95001:55
SpeedEvilAs a start.01:56
SpeedEvilThen everyone with karma >500 should get one. :)01:56
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DocScrutinizerkill AEGIS!!!!!!!!!!!!02:10
GeneralAntillesGot a long way to go until this is usable day-to-day.02:10
GeneralAntillesGotta love the SDK integration, though.02:10
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DocScrutinizer""nokia needs aegis and will keep it, as yoghurt sport and skype need it""02:10
DocScrutinizeryou SEE where that is targeting at02:11
DocScrutinizerFOSS is useless, let's care about those companies that SELL stuff via OVI02:11
DocScrutinizer""what, there's mobile hotspot, an app that obsoletely yoghurt sport? Doesn't matter, as Yoghurt is a *commercial* player, and they generate money flow""02:13
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: ""what, there's mobile hotspot, an app that obsoletes yoghurt sport? Doesn't matter, as Yoghurt is a *commercial* player, and they generate money flow""02:13
DocScrutinizerNokia always dreamt of being like Apple (allegedly is), earning their money with the appstore rather than with doing what they really know about: BUILD FRIGGIN EXCELLENT HW and sell it02:15
DocScrutinizerOVI never took off - who's to blame? The FOSS nerds02:16
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DocScrutinizerNokia doesn't want "us" as customers, they want the google sheep and iPhone fanboys, that shell out the money without thinking, and don't complain about cherry and signed bootloaders and aegis, and esp who do not mess around with downloading things from OVI for free despite the fact Nokia placed a "lock" into apt. That's not how Nokia is used to do business, we are only valuable as coding monkeys02:23
DocScrutinizerand N900 showed we aren't controllable02:24
DocScrutinizerthey planned to control us via aegis, but finally Nokia switched targets and now it's big business again, read "commercial aka winP7 aka a working ecosystem where people are used to buy what you offer to them"02:26
GeneralAntillesYeah, well, they have more numbers and more money, sadly.02:26
DocScrutinizerthat's all what counts, when it comes to shareholder value02:27
DocScrutinizerthere's no obligation and no liability for Nokia to furhter support that FOSS approach02:28
DocScrutinizerand it didn't pay back02:28
DocScrutinizerso it's binned now02:28
DocScrutinizerI attributed M6 the final nail to maemo's coffin, and well, it is02:30
DocScrutinizerif you love(d) maemo, stay with maemo, stay with M502:32
DocScrutinizermeego pretty obviously has no future at Nokia02:32
DocScrutinizerthere'll be no Nokia supperted linux based OS for phones better than fremantle any time soon02:34
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GeneralAntillesEveryone judge fiferboy's FBReader!
SpeedEvilOh - neat - for harmattan!03:00
DocScrutinizerhelp me out, what's FBReader?03:00
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, only the greatest thing in the world.03:01
DocScrutinizerexplains why I didn't know03:01
DocScrutinizera real BUCH is waaaay greater than any FBReader03:02
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: If you believe that way, I have a slowly expanding amazon store.03:02
SpeedEvilI have maybe 4000 books that I'm listing on amazon03:02
DocScrutinizerdon't get me wrong, there are benefits from ^F in pdf03:02
SpeedEvilPDF is the most broken and useless format for fiction.03:02
SpeedEvil - random books and stuff03:03
DocScrutinizerbut I'd not want to read any belletristic in my holiday on a N9??03:03
SpeedEvilPhysical books get scuffed and mislaid and ...03:04
DocScrutinizermaybe I'd actually like a 9" e-ink03:04
SpeedEvilAlso I have a nice little preprocessor that adds backlinks to the first occurrance of a char in a PDF03:04
SpeedEvilAnd in dim light, setting the n900 to dim works way better than trying to screw around with gettign the lighting right for e-ink03:05
GeneralAntillesFiction and diagram-free non-fiction is what you read on a phone.03:06
DocScrutinizerreading a book on N900 resembles the guy at McDonals that is visually impaired and reads the newspaper char by char with a magnifying glass, each day for ~3h03:06
SpeedEvilFor aything but the simplest diagrams, it's painful.03:07
SpeedEvilI have read perhaps 500M of fiction on my n90003:07
GeneralAntillesI think I'm over 500 books since the 770.03:08
DocScrutinizeror, maybe even better, it feels to me like listening to music with a hearing aid03:08
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, OK, we get it. It doesn't suit you. :P03:08
DocScrutinizerI wouldn't want to watch movies on N900, and I wouldn't want to read books on N900. For anything else than mere informational purposes03:09
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DocScrutinizerwell, it's useless to debate it :-D03:09
DocScrutinizerso yeah, for those who enjoy reading books on a 4" screen, probably FBReader is the best thing since sliced bread. I frankly admit I got no clue about it03:11
SpeedEvilI find it useful - at 13 lines/screen or so - with the button to change page03:11
DocScrutinizerlandscape or portrait? :-D03:12
DocScrutinizer51hmm, *might* actually be bearable03:14
kimjufinally managed to get an updated terminal installed on the device. took only about 6 hours, mostly thanks to aegis.03:15
DocScrutinizer51we got little booklets called "Reklam" here, yellow and size ~DIN A 6 or smaller. a 4" screen in fullscreen portrait is like half a page03:16
SpeedEvilI can read 13 lines in ~8 seconds - less text on screen is annoying03:19
DocScrutinizer51kimju: \o/ isn't aegis great?03:19
kimjuwhat finally worked was: 1) uninstall old version with dpkg -P --force-all 2) remove .desktop file left in /usr/share/applications/installer-extra/ 3) uninstall via application manager 4) reboot, 5) reinstall new package.03:19
DocScrutinizer51kimju: now for the nice part: what was that terminal you installed?03:20
kimjumeego-terminal from gitorious, compiled locally in scratchbox.03:20
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, usually between 28-32 lines in portrait here.03:20
kimjunow that I got it running I can start making changes to it..03:20
DocScrutinizer51kimju: and is it better than stock?03:21
kimjuit's the same thing.03:21
kimjubut I want to make it better.03:21
DocScrutinizer51now you gonna *make* it better03:21
DocScrutinizer51yeah got it03:22
GeneralAntillesSIM's going back in the N900 tomorrow.03:23
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: how long?03:24
DocScrutinizerhere <24h03:24
GeneralAntillesUm, since about 11:30 this morning.03:25
GeneralAntillesNot even 10 hours03:26
GeneralAntillesWell, 3 biggest things I use the N900 for day-to-day03:26
DocScrutinizerI even forgot already if I managed to check SSC and USSD03:26
GeneralAntillesGTalk/AIM, IRC, FBReader.03:26
kimjumultisims are nice, I can have same phone number in two (or actually in five) phones simultaneously.03:27
DocScrutinizeryeah, alas you can't get multisim here for prepaid03:27
DocScrutinizerbut my sim is so old I *could* even clone it ;-D03:28
kimjunot here either. and no more than two sims on any new contract. legacy contracts and services are nice to have sometimes.03:29
DocScrutinizerlegacy SIM hw has its nice aspects too03:30
GAN900Is Firefox working?03:30
SpeedEvilI'd love it if I could do true software SIM03:31
DocScrutinizerit's no problem at all03:31
DocScrutinizerjust the phone hw isn't built do support it ootb03:31
SpeedEvilNot quite.03:31
SpeedEvilyou can't normally get the secrets03:31
SpeedEvilmodulo hacks that I understand you can do with openbts03:32
DocScrutinizeryes, unless you got a 11y-o SIM, like mine :-)03:32
DocScrutinizer(openbts) umm, I don't think you can get the secrets this way either03:33
DocScrutinizerwith the old SIMs some smart hackers found ways to "read out" the secret cryptokey by observing response time to certain challenge values, observing the power consumption and noise, or both03:35
DocScrutinizerthere's nothing you could do via OTA API that you couldn't do with the same SIM in a cardreader03:36
DocScrutinizernew SIMs are hardened against such attacks03:37
GAN900So, um, filetypes the browser doesn't recognize it just says "No." to?03:41
GAN900Is this a WAP browser?03:41
DocScrutinizerGAN900: ??03:42
GAN900Trying to download a Baen free lib selection.03:43
GAN900Refuses to download any of the formats.03:43
GAN900How do I paste the clipboard in term. . . .03:43
DocScrutinizernot at all03:44
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DocScrutinizerharm doen't really support a system wide c&p03:44
SpeedEvilGAN900: it can read html and epub just fine03:44
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I vaguely remember that it's not possible to simply request the secrets. When I looked at it it seemed to be possible to request the SIM authenticate with a weak encryption, which you can crack.03:45
DocScrutinizerGAN900: (c&p) that's btw been the moment when my SIM moved back to N90003:45
GAN900Type application/epub+zip not supported.03:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yes03:46
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: but you never can request the secrets, it's a challenge/response scheme afaik03:46
SpeedEvilI mean you request the challenge/response with an insecure encryption03:47
GAN900Useless thing is only usable for app testing right now.03:47
DocScrutinizersure, that's how you eavesdrop on a phone - doesn't help to clone your own SIM though03:47
SpeedEvilIs a link to '1632'03:47
SpeedEvilin epub format03:48
DocScrutinizerGAN900: yup03:48
SpeedEvilI'd need to reread it - as I understood it there were a choice of challenge/response protocols that authenticate against teh same secret keys.03:48
SpeedEvilSome of the algorithms were crackable03:49
DocScrutinizeror make it a member of a heterogeneous beowulf :-)03:49
GAN900SpeedEvil, don't feel like typing it into the device.03:49
DocScrutinizer:nod:03:51 also03:51
DocScrutinizerNot found - 40403:53
DocScrutinizerURL requested (/b.epub) not found03:53
SpeedEvilShould be there now - oops03:55
GAN900OK sim's going back.04:04
GAN900Whew. That's better.04:09
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rm_codehrm, finally home and with SDK installed properly :P04:29
rm_codeso.... is setting up scratchbox with xephyr and setting up QtCreator two completely different ways to develop?04:43
DocScrutinizeraiui yes04:43
rm_codelol ok...04:44
DocScrutinizerbut don't trust a word I say about development and SDK04:44
rm_codelol k04:44
DocScrutinizerI know there's SB and MADDE04:44
rm_codewell i'm setting up both and shall see which one i will go with04:44
rm_codei have very little Qt experience, was mostly a gnome guy before04:44
rm_codeso this'll be fun! :P04:44
rm_codetheir widget library seems nice04:45
DocScrutinizerprobably QtCrreator is in line with the madde thing04:45
DocScrutinizerQt seems fun, yes. I did some Qt development like 5 years ago04:45
ieatlintyeah, the qt sdk has a harmattan toolchain...04:46
GeneralAntillesQt SDK seems pretty reasonable.04:47
ieatlinti don't know if it supports any of the lower api calls, but it has qt and (i believe) mtf anyway04:47
ieatlinteasier to setup than scratchbox, that's for sure04:47
antman8969so just got my n950 and I recall people in here talking about aegis problems.... was there a wiki somewhere I can read?04:49
rm_codeah man05:08
rm_codejust deployed the hello world app05:08
rm_codethis is SO easy with a device and QtCreator05:08
rm_codethis looks like a decently nice IDE too05:09
rm_codewe'll see what i think after actually trying to build something, but first impression is great05:09
ieatlintit's not perfect, but it has some convienient features05:13
GAN900Working Designer would be nice.05:17
rm_codeumm so how can I make a statusbar applet <_<05:22
rm_codeor add to the statusbar05:22
rm_codewhy is it that i'm always trying to do something "outside the norm" >_>05:23
ieatlintyou need to use the harmattan api for that05:25
rm_codei looked at that FIRST, didn't see anything, which is what led me to QtCreator :P05:27
rm_codeeh, i'll worry about it later05:27
ieatlintyeah, i don't know if those apis are in the harmattan toolchain for the qtsdk05:28
ieatlintlook at the application framework05:28
ieatlinti *think* libduicontrolpanel is where you want to look05:29
ieatlintbut i'm not too sure05:29
rm_codeok wtf i take it back05:38
rm_codethis IDE is horrible05:38
rm_codeonce you actually get a project set up it is completely non-intuitive05:38
ieatlintoh, no, the correct place for adding things to the toolbar is via MAction (derived from QAction)05:39
rm_codewhere's that05:42
ieatlintunder libmeegotouch... urls seems janky for this05:42
ieatlintand i'm still not 100% sure :)05:42
ieatlintit's unclear, and i don't have time to look further now, but am also insterested in the answer05:43
rm_codewell, thanks05:44
ieatlinti am entertained that there is a libduicontrolpanel though05:45
rm_codei wonder if i can find the source for the volume control applet05:48
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rm_codegot the source05:57
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rm_codeblah compiling these demos on EITHER api, and I get different include errors on each06:21
rm_codeit's like it needs both APIs or something06:21
ieatlintboth apis?06:25
ieatlintthe scratchbox sdk will have everything the qt sdk has06:26
rm_codei mean, in QtCreator it lets you use two APIs06:26
rm_codeHarmattan Platform API, and Meego 1.2 Harmattan API06:27
rm_codewhen i use the second it complains about not being able to load "meegotouch_defines" and then fails to find MLibrary06:27
rm_codeif i build on the first, it complains about not being able to find MStatusIndicatorMenuExtensionInterface06:28
ieatlintah, yeah, it does have two toolchains there, no clue why06:28
ieatlintseems to default for "Platform for Harmattan" for me06:30
rm_codethen i'll need to solve06:30
rm_codeah the joys of learning a new API06:32
rm_codeso yeah06:38
rm_codedoes the QtCreator gui designer just not work? i guess that's what GAN was referencing it earlier06:38
rm_codeon the plus side, the widget rotation is super easy06:54
antman8969lol its default I think07:04
rm_codehrm, what Qt calls a "spinner" is exactly not what 99% of the rest of the world calls a spinner07:04
antman8969and yea the designer is buggy, but I think it leads to bad habbits anyway07:04
antman8969is it the loading spinner?07:04
antman8969i guess i'm that .01% :(07:05
rm_codenormally a spinner is a numeric box with +/- buttons07:05
antman8969oooh, you're right actually07:05
antman8969it was called "busy indicator" in the git repo07:05
antman8969they change stuff for no reason07:05
rm_codeyeah <_<07:05
rm_codeI want a REAL spinner07:05
rm_codeand... in Qt it is also called a spinner07:06
rm_codebut it doesn't appear to exist in the Qt Designer07:06
rm_codeof course, the "spinner" as they define it also doesn't show uo07:07
rm_codewtf this is missing 90% of the GUI components07:07
antman8969keep it simple ;)07:08
antman8969BUTTONS ONLY07:08
rm_codefor the app i'm doing, I need a spinner07:08
rm_codeI guess i just need to make a label that is bound to an integer and make buttons that increment/decrement07:09
rm_codeseems overly complicated07:09
rm_codewhen all I want is a spinner07:09
rm_codeand i feel like Qt has a really nice looking one07:09
antman8969making you're own anything is pretty easy with qml. The problem is that the qt-components project will porbably make one eventually then you'll be pressured to go back and change yours07:10
rm_codehow do I actually make one07:11
antman8969the source for that spinner is in the "Spinner.qml" file07:11
antman8969someone did the work for you07:11
antman8969you should look into PathViews tho, it's the shit07:11
rm_codethis isn't a default part of the UI?07:12
rm_codei have to download it or something?07:12
antman8969lol there isn't really a "default" part. The dfault is just shapes pretty much07:12
antman8969if you make you app available for maemo5 users, you can't use any of the components07:12
antman8969and maemo doesn't have qtquick 1.107:12
antman8969so it's not really THAT cross platform anymore07:13
rm_codei thought Qt had its own widgets07:13
antman8969Yea you're thinking desktop widgets07:13
rm_codeit doesn't actually, it just has shape making and people have to define the widgets?07:13
rm_codeno i'm thinking GTK+ widgets07:13
antman8969Yea, the full Qt version does, but not QML07:13
antman8969but we need to use QML for harmattan07:14
rm_codebasically what you're saying is, this is way less useful and simple than i thought it would be to switch to Qt07:14
rm_codei was looking forward to having the full library of Qt widgets available07:15
antman8969lol well, it's "different" than you thought, still easy tho07:15
antman8969Qt is C++, which we are using very little of in the UI now07:15
antman8969because it's all done in QML07:15
rm_codeok, so since we don't have QtQuick, i still can't use this?07:15
antman8969with the meego touch UI lib "com.meego"07:15
rm_codeso i have to make my own still?07:15
antman8969depends. Spinner? probably. But someone made it for you already07:15
antman8969so thats off the list07:16
antman8969buttons? thats in com.meego 1.007:16
rm_codebut it uses QtQuick07:16
rm_codeso i can't use it?07:16
antman8969you can, QtQuick IS QML lol07:16
rm_codeyou said we didn't have QtQuick available07:16
rm_code<antman8969> and maemo doesn't have qtquick 1.107:16
antman8969we done have qtquick 1.1 on maemo n90007:16
antman8969 the old phone07:16
rm_codefremantle doesn't have it07:16
antman8969so it poses backwards compatibility problems07:16
antman8969they have 1.007:16
rm_codeharmattan is still maemo :P07:16
antman8969lol true07:17
antman8969basically what I was trying to say was, if you don't build your app with the intention of it working for n900, it won't07:17
rm_codeso i just download this QML file and shove it somewhere and then load it?07:17
antman8969yep, the qml/ directory07:17
antman8969it's like pythin in that respect07:17
antman8969if it was in a sub dir, then you import it with : import "dir"07:18
antman8969this is the page you want
antman8969it's the qml "api"07:18
antman8969if you're confused, don't worry. QML is like, a year old07:18
rm_codei was expecting Qt07:19
rm_codei guess I was misinformed :P07:19
antman8969lol it's the future of Qt07:20
rm_codeAlright, defined this QML thing07:20
antman8969QML is the language, Qt markup language07:20
rm_codetrying to actually put one in my project now07:20
antman8969you made a harmattan project right?07:20
rm_codebut... the old Qt actually HAD a spinner as a base element07:20
antman8969but its dead now! dead!07:20
antman8969you have a qml dir07:20
antman8969thats where all the qml goes07:20
rm_codei put the file there07:20
rm_codeand included it in my project07:21
antman8969yep, which means you need to add it to your project file under "Otherfiles"07:21
antman8969and add it to your resource file07:21
antman8969this is all harmattan specific btw07:21
rm_codei mean07:21
rm_codei already added it07:21
rm_codeit's in my project07:21
antman8969if you want to use it, then you use it like any other QML element: Spinner {}07:21
antman8969it's basically CSS07:22
antman8969like how you would use a Rectangle {}07:22
antman8969the main.qml file in the spinner project you found online would be agood reference07:22
antman8969 is the api for the harmattan / meego qml components07:22
rm_codei am looking for it in the items section07:23
rm_codei wanted to drag it in07:23
antman8969ooh the designer view. I'd stay away from it07:23
rm_codeonly have used the designer so far for UI layout07:23
rm_codeah >_>07:23
rm_codeok then07:23
antman8969take a look at the QML, it's pretty simple07:23
rm_codeso much for that07:23
rm_codewas really looking forward to having a graphical UI designer07:23
antman8969I mean, it does work sometimes, but not like it should yet. It's still pretty new07:24
antman8969my work is usually worse if I rely on it07:24
rm_codeoooo ok07:24
rm_codei can define them07:24
rm_codeand then edit their properties in the designer07:24
antman8969thats an option07:24
antman8969at that point tho, might as well stay in the qml lol07:24
antman8969watever works for you07:24
rm_codewell i don't know the options yet :P07:25
antman8969lol yea, I always have the api opened up07:25
antman8969most of them have the same options tho, when it gets to lists and stuff is when you need help07:26
rm_codethey don't show up... my app is just blank :(07:26
antman8969well, help remembering07:26
antman8969The spinner?07:26
antman8969did you take out the label and button?07:26
antman8969you should look at teh main.qml file in the online version, a spinner probably needs a model07:26
antman8969which would be ListModel{}07:27
rm_codestill expecting it to work like GTK or old Qt07:28
rm_codejust want to define it and it shows up T_T07:28
rm_codea spinner used to be a one-liner07:28
antman8969tade offs, there are other one liners07:28
antman8969the anchoring system is worth it imo07:28
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rm_codefighting with the anchors right now07:34
rm_codei want something to be "top middle" and it's more like... not07:34
antman8969top middle of.. the page element?07:35
rm_codeand the other needs to be bottom middle07:36
antman8969well assuming its a child07:37
antman8969you need to add these anchor lines07:37
antman8969anchors.horizontalCenter: parent.horizontalCenter07:37
antman8969and parnent.top07:37
antman8969and play around with anchors.topMargin to get the spacing right07:37
rm_codeyeah i did exactly that07:38
antman8969assuming they actually have sizes too, then you have to play around not sure07:39
rm_codeok this seems not too bad07:41
rm_codeif it would go where i tell it to, but i'm going to assume it's because i'm a nub at this point07:42
antman8969lol most likely07:42
antman8969one thing that is annoying is needing to add the qml files to the resource file07:43
antman8969that wasn't the case in.... any other Qt07:43
rm_codecan it not just be automatic?07:44
rm_codeinclude * from folder qml/ ?07:44
rm_codeapparently not07:44
rm_codeso, what do I use as the default container07:45
rm_codenot a Row, apparently, it does weird things07:45
antman8969rows will always lay things out ina row07:45
antman8969but you're thinking like desktop qt07:45
antman8969you really don't need a container07:45
antman8969if you want an image in the top middle07:45
antman8969just make an image and anchor it07:45
antman8969if you want 5 in a row, throw then in a Row{} and anchor the Row to the top07:46
rm_codeso, lock in portrait does nothing?07:55
* Stskeeps yawns07:55
antman8969how are you doing it?07:58
rm_code    lockInPortrait: true07:59
antman8969oh lol, guess not then08:00
antman8969theres probably a way to do it in main.cpp08:00
antman8969thats how it was done in other version at least08:00
rm_codehrm k08:02
rm_codeand for some reason the thing i bound to the top isn't showing up >_>08:03
rm_codebottom one is totally working tho :P08:03
rm_codeah well, i'll have to figure out the cool stuff tomorrow08:10
rm_codelike, how to bind a label's text to a variable i defined in the cpp08:10
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antman8969ooh, I guess we're including the qml files in the resources file so they get compoiled into the executable08:33
antman8969hmm... helping people stay closed source?08:33
Stskeepswell, they're still raw qml in there08:33
antman8969having to debug is definetly a deterrant at least...08:34
antman8969as opposed to plain text08:34
antman8969other than that, the only other side effect is I can't edit the source when I"m on a bus...08:34
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* Termana_ sighs.09:17
Termana_DDoSed BNC makes me a sad panda09:17
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antman8969anyone know of any screen protectors for the n950?10:18
antman8969feeling very nervous10:18
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alteregozehjotkah seemed to know of some, was asking for requests on twitter yesterday.10:31
antman8969I just bought 2 droid matte protectors for 5 bucks
antman8969should be fine, and I like the matte feel10:33
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Summelidoes anyone here know how to disable swipe in fullscreen game with N950?10:33
kimjuI'm waiting for a while if zagg is going to release on invisible shield for n9/n950.. if not, I still have few n800 and other bigger shields that could be modified to fit..10:35
ieatlintzagg sells just sheets to cut yourself...10:35
ieatlintfinding a laser cutter also is often pretty easy, but getting the dimensions isn't10:36
harbaumthp: ping10:37
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KaadlajkSummeli: there will be QML API for that at somepoint, now there is just a workaround10:40
KaadlajkI just cant find where it was documented10:40
SummeliKaadlajk: what's the workaround? :)10:41
SummeliI'm still with QWidgets, so that workaroudn would be nice ;-)10:41
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KaadlajkSummeli: this is how I saw it done for QDeclarativeView
Kaadlajkcould not find where that was documented10:56
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SummeliKaadlajk: thanks, I'll try it :)11:00
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tonberry__anyone working on the harmattan browser?11:04
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sebasHey :)11:08
sebasI'm playing around with the n950, trying to get a package installed, but I'm struggling with the device's security11:08
sebasAegis rejecting qt-components_1.0~git20110712-1_i386.deb: package 'qt-components' already installed from '' -- not replacing it from unknown origin11:08
sebasdocs, as far as I could find suggest that I should be able to just install something on the device11:08
fralsnot sure you can replace system packages that easily11:08
fralsalso, why are you installing i386 on arm?11:09
Mekyou can if you first remove it11:09
Mekbut yeah, wrong architecture is a bigger problem :)11:09
sebasah, crap ... picked the wrong binary11:09
Mekbut still you can't upgrade it to your own package, you first need to de-install the provided one11:09
Mek(which will also remove some meta-package that will break system updates, but then system updated are not supported anyway afaik)11:09
sebasok, uninstalling it (and subsequently picking the armel package ;)) seems to help11:11
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* andre__ wonders what people use for chatting on N9/5011:30
ieatlintthere are no chat plugins for the n950 currently11:33
* dm8tbr would love to see XMPP for harmattan as an account protocol11:34
ieatlintat an unspecified future date, there will be in a similar fashion to the n90011:34
jussiI dont have one yet, but Quassel2go of course for IRC11:34
dm8tbrI thought SIP had also messaging? aka SIMPLE11:35
ieatlintyes, theoretically, and that is already enabled on the n95011:35
Venemo_N950Freenode WebChat atm11:35
ieatlintbut which chat system uses it?11:35
dm8tbrM$ OCS uses something like SIP. I wanted to check if I can make them talk11:35
Venemo_N950my home internet connection stopped working? but I'm an irc fan... so http://webchat.freenode.net11:36
ieatlinti suspect we will not see any additional n950 updates until mid-august :(11:36
ieatlintseems many many people at nokia are already on holiday11:36
dm8tbrI woudln't be so sure11:36
jussiieatlint: finland goes on holiday in July...11:37
ieatlintthat explains a lot :)11:37
ieatlinti kept thinking it was a little early11:37
fluxin general I'd say finns have a 4 week summer holiday11:37
Venemo_N950good for them...11:38
ieatlintyeah, i get 3 weeks a year, and that includes days i take for sick-leave11:38
ieatlintlucky bastards11:38
fluxwell, there's also one week winter holiday11:38
dm8tbrhrm no tun/tap on the device. no VPN :(11:39
fluxdm8tbr, now that sucks11:39
dm8tbrwho do we need to talk to to get an "advanced" kernel going for harmattan?11:39
fralsvpn should be possible11:40
dm8tbrcd /lib/modules && find .|grep tap |wc -l11:40
dm8tbrunless it's built in11:41
dm8tbrhaven't checked that yet11:41
fralsive seen vpnc running so i would assume its not hard to do at least ;)11:41
dm8tbrhmm I see 'tun' related things in /sys but not tap11:42
Venemo_N9504 weeks holiday... no wonder they don't get any work done11:42
fluxI guess there are other means of establishing the vpn tunnel11:42
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fluxdm8tbr, tap might even be an 'older' technique compared to tun..11:43
fluxI remember using tap eons ago11:43
fralsdont get any work done? pft11:43
TSCHAKeee...._ANOTHER_ $(#@$(#@ channel?11:43
* TSCHAKeee puts this next to the 47,000 other tabs11:43
dm8tbrflux: tun and tap are fundamentally different things11:44
fluxdm8tbr, well, openvpn can use either one in any case?11:44
dm8tbrflux: one is for IP and one is for raw ethernet11:44
fluxoh, I didn't know that tun is only for ip11:44
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alteregoSoooo, huuungry ..12:04
alteregoI should make something to eat,12:04
* alterego wanders off.12:05
lardmanharbaum: did you work out a method for the .pro file?12:11
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harbaumDo we have qtmobility 1.1?12:13
alteregoIt's nice how well the N950 works even under direct sunlight12:14
djszapiVenemo_N950: why I think you cannot turn off the security is also that, this distribution and kernel, etc were supposed to target the user audience (aka. there will be not many customers buying N9 for hacking)12:14
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alteregoI think someone should port screen. If we can't have multi window terminals :p12:15
djszapialterego: should not be biggie to port.12:16
djszapiI would really like to have an IRC client.12:17
djszapikonversation port would be cool. :)12:17
ieatlintharbaum: we're on qtmobility 1.212:17
djszapialterego: I am packaging screen for you :)12:17
alteregoyay :)12:17
ieatlintharbaum: check out and for my n950's output12:18
Venemo_N950djszapi, I understand12:18
alteregoI was going to work on multiple window support for terminal at somepoint' when I get the time. Butscreen is good :)12:18
harbaumieatlint: Si this is completely outdated already:
djszapialterego: heh, the only hard dependency is pam.12:19
harbaumalterego: Who has a buttscreen?12:19
ieatlinthah, i posted the comment on that (obviously, i guess)12:19
djszapiI could not get it working yet. I also needed that for kdelibs.12:19
ieatlintthat article was never correct12:19
ieatlintso outdated"12:19
ieatlint"is wrong12:20
djszapialterego: test fails in qemu/scratchbox -> unhandled exception, segfault12:20
djszapiI could not turn the test cases off yet.12:20
ieatlintthe method i detail in my comment is valid.  it can be adapted more exclusively for qml by putting in a signal handler for a resize of the main rectangle/item of the qml screen12:21
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alteregodjszapi: probably something wrong with qemu :/12:23
djszapialterego: yeah :/ I have never found a package with test cases where it succeeded. Test always fails in qemu12:23
djszapi(which will probably not fail on the gadget, thus we can safely turn them off)12:24
harbaumieatlint: So how does one do rotation in plain qml?12:26
ieatlintharbaum: well, you could do onWidthChanged: on the top level qml element12:28
ieatlintthen if( width > height ) { <landscape modifications> } else { <portrait modifications> }12:28
harbaumieatlint: But the width doesn't change. Nothing happens if i rotate the deivice12:28
ieatlintyou may want to create a property to store the current orientation as well...12:28
Damion3you can run meego-terminal -n12:28
ieatlintif the phone reorients its UI, it will resize the application that is in the foreground12:29
Damion3I always do that as once I've sshed I find I need to check iwconfig regfularly due to the low power wifi12:29
ieatlintand in doing so, the width will change12:29
harbaumieatlint: really, nothing happens if i rotate the phone. my app can handle aspect ratio changes pretty nicely, but that isn't happening12:29
ieatlinthuh, then i question if the change is somehow not being detected12:30
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ieatlintam doing a test right now to confirm12:32
harbaumieatlint: thanks12:32
harbaumor do i have to set some focus in the qml?12:33
ieatlinthuh, i indeed can confirm that simply thowing a onWidthChanged: doesn't get triggered12:33
MekI thought there was some magic in the Page (or PageWindow or something like that) component that handles orientation changes12:34
harbaumso what does cause plain qml apps to rotate?12:34
Mek(without a Page as parent, even a Sheet component won't have any support for orientation changes)12:34
ieatlinti do however find these signals: onOrientationChangeAboutToStart:, onOrientationChangeStarted:, onOrientationChangeFinished:12:35
harbaumMek: So "plain qml" is also unsupported? Either use qt componentsn or be stuck in landscape?12:36
ieatlinti would use one of them.. i just tested and can confirm they work12:36
Mekharbaum: well, I assume you should be able to replicate whatever qt components do, but yeah, since all orientation changing happens client-side, you need to have some code in your app to actually do that12:36
ieatlintharbaum: in plain qml there should be some signal to indicate the change... i've always done it via QWidget and the event handler12:36
ieatlintbut i'm confident there is a method12:36
harbaumand that code will interfere with other devices?12:37
harbaumwouldn't it be great if qt would work cross plattform?12:38
Mekwell, that's the idea of qt components. If you use qt components (and only the "generic" api (that is not quite finished yet)), it should work on any platform that has qt components implementations12:39
ieatlintharbaum: haha12:39
harbaumYeah, but this constant "don't use that anymore, it's deprecated" is really happening too often imho12:40
harbaumwe had plain qt->mtf->qml->qt components in what? 6 months?12:40
Mekmtf was deprecated before it was released :P12:40
harbaumthat doesn't make it better ...12:40
ieatlintmtf was deprecated, and then 6+ months later released12:40
ieatlintand qt5 deprecates more, and moves qwidgets to the sideline12:41
cpscottihiemanshu, Finally!!! Ok, now.. stop cursing all of us and enjoy your toy! :)12:52
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Damion3oh great the flasher util from just starts out by wiping all data warning that you probably should have backed up 1st13:01
Damion3I wanted to just do a basic non user data firmware flash as it got itself in to a reboot loop13:02
hiemanshucpscotti: hah13:03
hiemanshucpscotti: I got on a computer after almost 3 days now :/13:03
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cpscottihiemanshu, hehe! good way to deal with the anxiety13:04
hiemanshucpscotti: nope, like I said, house moving and such13:05
hiemanshuabout 30-ish people at home right now13:05
cpscottihiemanshu, jeez.. not the ideal time&place to get proper "focused" hacking it seems.. lol.13:09
hiemanshucpscotti: about 6 people asked me for the device already :/13:09
cpscottihiemanshu, ughh.. and I bet they are complaining about the "little bits&bugs".. or even.. comparing it to an iphone :/13:10
hiemanshunope, they haven't even touched it yet13:10
cpscottihiemanshu, expect that..13:11
hiemanshuanyways, I am off13:11
hiemanshugotta start dropping people off at the airport13:11
cpscottiehhe.. ok.. see ya!13:11
hiemanshucpscotti: btw my phone a trip through germany, UK, and then india :P13:11
* hiemanshu is off13:12
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kimjuany ideas why qmake is not working in scratchbox: ?13:21
cpscottikimju, weird isn't it? I'm using qmake myself inside sb and worket out of the box13:23
kimjuit worked previously for me too. haven't even upgraded any package on this machine since.13:23
cpscottiworks on HARMATTAN_X86 ?13:24
kimjuoh, never mind, /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core restart fixed that13:25
jussiIs there some way I can get a working version of what is on the n9 in a simulator on my PC? (running kubuntu)13:25
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cpscottikimju, great :D good to know that ... lol13:27
cpscottijussi,no.. basically not. The best thing I saw so far was scratchbox but very few of the apps are there. (the swipe/ui behaviour is all there though)13:28
jussicpscotti: hrr, thats frustrating. Hopefully one day soon we will get it.13:29
cpscottijussi, well.. I don`t know if that`s the'll ever happen (in terms of all the apps & stuff).13:31
cpscottijussi, but in terms of development environment, it`s pretty good13:31
harbaumWhere is the official qt components docu? I can only find something for symbian13:31
jussicpscotti: ok, fair point. Is there a guide for setting that up?13:31
cpscottijussi, yep.. wait a min13:32
harbaum only refers to the built-in doc of QtSDK, but my installation doesn't even include a single qt components demo or example13:32
jussicpscotti: got to run out to the shop, brb. Ill look for the post when I get back. thanks.13:33
cpscottijussi, should be here: but is acting weird13:35
cpscottijussi,  found it:
thpharbaum: pong13:41
harbaumthp: i am struggling with rotation on my qml app. do you know some docs on how to enable rotation on plain qt apps (no qt components)?13:42
alteregoWait, no open link in terminal omgwtfbbq?!?!?!13:43
Damion3oh, the dev release doesn't have -n on meego-termina;13:44
thpharbaum: wrap a PageStackWindow around your root element13:44
harbaumthp: Oh, so no way around qt components13:45
harbaumThat's sad as the demos fail to run nicely on the desktop and i'd really like to stay cross plattform13:45
thpharbaum: you can have two different qml files per platform13:46
thpit's how i do it with gpodder13:46
harbaumand where does the branch takie place?13:47
thpharbaum: the cross-platform main file then is this:
thpharbaum: in the setSource call on QDeclarativeView13:47
harbaumso the main app needs to know it runs on meego13:47
harbaumhow to achieve that?13:48
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thp, 'detect_platform'13:49
thpi basically read /etc/issue and check if the string MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan is in there13:49
thpthat's not the most sane way of doing it, but it works for me13:49
harbaumImho there is no sane way as they explicitely don't want you to detect meego as such13:50
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thpyep, that's true. there could be some QSysInfo api, but i have not looked into that13:51
vitnahi everyone13:51
thpharbaum: it would be cool if qml supported conditional imports13:52
vitnasomeone has used qtmultimediakit 1.1 on n950?13:52
harbaumif would be cool if qml were just cross plattform13:52
thpharbaum: which platform are you missing?13:52
thpvitna: yep, why?13:52
thpharbaum: it supports desktop13:53
vitnathp: i tried with Audio and SoundEffect elemtns in qml and on phone doesn't work13:53
vitnain the simulator all work fine13:53
thpvitna: audio definitely works, haven't used SoundEffect yet13:54
thpvitna: try using it without the soundeffect - maybe it's a bug there13:54
vitnaok now i try13:55
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harbaum_thp: are you running qt components on the desktop? The forum ppa stuff can't find theme related media in myinstallation13:56
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mgedminI'm curious: is the mail client on the n950 modest or something else?13:59
Stskeepsno, this is qmf based14:01
lardmanharbaum_: re Qt pro stuff, oh, shame14:03
harbaum_lardman: I am searching the the way to build and app for desktop, maemo5, symbina and meego _today_14:07
vitnadoh :-1: error: Packaging failed: Foreign debian directory detected.14:08
lardmanharbaum_: I just want to build for maemo5 and meego/harmattan; do let me know what you find out14:09
achipaharbaum_: qml is cross platfom, but UI paradigms and platform guidelines inherently aren't...14:17
lcukachipa, write an app and feel confident enough about its UX and keep that style wherever you use it (see apple products on windows)14:22
achipalcuk: style is the least of the issues, and that is why crossplatform *does* work on the desktop14:23
achipa(*for now* I must add, seeing where Windows 8 is going)14:23
lcukand we see many apps not following the os guidelines14:24
achipaWhich is a bad thing, especially when the guidelines tie into input methods and services14:25
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lcukachipa, not suggesting otherwise14:33
lcukfor starting a new app on any platform I agree, "use the guidelines, Luke" is absolutely right thing to do14:34
lcukbut once your app grows and becomes cross platform that is more tricky14:34
achipacross-platform UI is dead *even* on the web (as sites move to have at least two versions, desktop and mobile)14:34
achipalcuk: all the more reasons to do proper UI-logic decoupling and as thin UI layer as possible14:35
* lcuk nods14:36
lcukps achipa many devices now have selling point of being able to browse the "normal" websites ;)14:36
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lardmanthe issue for me is not ui related, it's that writing some component may require that different things are done on different platforms - even harmattan vs maemo515:03
lardmanso in the code one can use #defines, but I'm not sure what one does with the .pro file. E.g. for maemo5 I want the hildon stuff in there, but for harmattan I don't15:04
lardman.pc file imports basically iirc15:04
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achipalcuk: 'being able to' is a poor surogate for 'conveniently', as we've seen from the iOS example15:15
achipalardman: wint^H^H^H^Hharmattan scopes are coming15:16
lardmanachipa: good news15:16
lardmanany ideas as to timeline?15:16
achipanext SDK update, whenever that is (soon TM)15:17
lardmancool :)15:17
djszapisoon is generally a scary and long meaning :)15:18
achipalardman: djszapi: for impatient souls:
djszapiachipa: it is not just about us, almost the whole community with these gadgets..15:19
achipayes, that's why it's in a wiki :)15:20
djszapiwell, 4-5 weeks are a forever life :)15:20
djszapior if it is even more :)15:20
achipathe bottom line is - don't invent a Q_WS_MAEMO6 or sorts when a 'real', supported define is coming15:21
Damion3why can't the n900 and n950 sync stuff over BT ?15:22
lardmanDamion3: they can15:22
macmaNthey can15:22
Damion3I can find and pair and hcitool scan finds eachother15:23
Damion3but trying to sync contacts simply refuses to see the other device15:23
Damion3and I'm not the only person to report this15:23
macmaNyep but youre the last person in the world to read this wiki15:24
macmaNLAST I SAY15:24
Damion3macmaN: that worked on the previous firmware, I couldn't get the n950 to see the n900 so I pushed from the n900.  However now the n900 camn't see the n950.  I found this wiki page after already discovering this myself last time.15:24
Damion3hmm "YMMV it would seem. -lardman " :)15:25
macmaNok anyway, what i ended up doing was to make N900 "Get Contacts" that seems to for some reason live inside the Send menu15:26
macmaNthat was before that wiki page was born15:26
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Damion3I wonder if this has anything to do with the type of device the n900 is reporting itself as.  In another BT scanning window the n950 sees it as a camera but other phones as handsets15:31
Damion3/etc/bluetooth/main.conf has a class setting which makes this differ from a normal handset15:47
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djszapiWho would feel like helping with a community IRC client for Harmattan ? Have someone started it ?16:02
djszapi* has16:02
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Damion3okay I synced by using a C016:08
Damion3as both phones were able to connect and sync to that device and we had one lying around.16:09
Damion3I suspect it's the device type which contact sync isn't happy with.  I should update the wiki16:09
fralsDamion3: C0?16:16
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jussibah, cant seem to get anything to appear in xephyr after following
jussiany tips?16:19
spenapwhat's failing, jussi ?16:24
jussispenap: it all seems to work fine, I start scratchbox, xephyr, run the session start, but then there is nothing in the xephyr screen.16:25
spenapbasically: launch xephyr outside scratchbox with the params they specify there, export the display inside scratchbox so it uses the Xephyr instance and then invoke meego-sb-session start16:25
jussispenap: yes, thats exactly what I did.16:27
spenapwell, I have +extension Composite instead of -extension Composite (don't know why, just "recycled" the command I already had for launching Xephyr)16:29
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spenapbesides that, I don't see differences there. However, sometimes my Xephyr doesn't show anything until I click on the screen16:30
spenapand drag left or drag16:30
jussiyeah, I just copied that which is on the wiki.16:30
spenapthen it re-paints and the content appears16:30
jussiYeah, I tried that. might try restarting xephyr16:30
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jussispenap: ahh, I figured it out :)16:35
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jussibit strange, the display needed to be exported as =:2.0 not =:  ... o.O16:37
jussibit strange, the display needed to be exported as =:2.0 not =:2 ... o.O16:37
fluxjussi, doesn't matter16:38
spenapI'm using =:2 and works for me, you must have solved it with some other change16:38
fluxby =:2 you mean the value is :2, right?16:38
Damion3frals: some tiny S^3 device, possibly NDA16:39
jussithe only thing I changed was [sbox-HARMATTAN_X86: ~] > export DISPLAY=:2 to [sbox-HARMATTAN_X86: ~] > export DISPLAY=:2.016:39
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fluxjussi, and if you switch it back again, it stops working etc? funny thing then.16:40
fluxI would expect DISPLAY=:2 xlsclients and DISPLAY=:2.0 xlsclients to work equally16:40
Mekhmm, the harmattan application template thing in qt creator claims an app icon has to be 64x64 pixels, yet the icon templates and guidelines say app icons are 80x80 pixels16:41
fluxmek, I think it wants to say you're supposed to use only 64x64 for the icon or something, while the template is bigger16:41
fiferboyMek: App icons needs to be 64x64 for the application manager16:41
Mekwell, qt creator refuses to use any file that is no 64x64 pixels16:41
Mekhmm, okay... so a 64x64 icon for the app manager and a 80x80 for the actual menu... (most icons in the app manager currently just seem ugly rescaled 80x80 ones at least...)16:43
jussiright, Im off, talk laters again :)16:43
Mekstill seems like a bug in the qt creator template that it doesn't have support for the 80x80 one16:43
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SummeliKaadlajk: thanks for the tip. I got the swipe disabled :)16:54
razvanpetruHi, any solutions for the SelectionDialog C++ model bug? I'm trying to build a combobox and I'm stuck...16:55
razvanpetrubetter yet, why are there no comboboxes? :P16:56
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fiferboyrazvanpetru: You are trying to implement a SelectionDialog using QWidgets?17:01
razvanpetruno, I'm trying to use the one from Harmattan17:02
razvanpetruwhich doesn't support C++ models apparently, it only supports ListModel :(17:02
fiferboyAh.  But a QML ListModel can use a C++ delegate (I think)17:03
fiferboyDoes that help in your situation?17:03
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razvanpetruyeah but... how will I get the 100 items inside that ListModel?17:03
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razvanpetruI've tried to add each item from the model from JS like this: for(var i = 0;i < qmlModel.rowCount();++i)17:03
razvanpetrubut QML can't see the rowCount function17:04
Mekhmm, there doesn't even seem to be any reason why model is hardcoded to be a ListModel in that qml file...17:04
fralsworst case you just copy the implementation and change the property to be <whatever> instead of ListModel17:04
fralssince the implementation doesnt seem to depend on the fact its a ListModel17:05
fralsshould file a bug about that if you havent already17:05
razvanpetruwhat type should I use instead of ListModel?17:05
razvanpetrue.g: property TheTtpe model: <value>17:05
fralsQObject should do fine I guess17:06
razvanpetruok thanks :)17:06
razvanpetruI see it's importing UIConstants.js though... on the phone that import fails for me17:06
razvanpetrudo I have to also deploy it on the phone?17:06
Mekor just make it an alias for selectionListView.model17:06
fralsas long as your model is compaatible with listviews model and has a count() method17:06
Mekso `property alias model: selectionListView.model` would probably be the best solution17:06
fralsyeah, what Mek said would be better17:07
fralsor hm17:07
razvanpetruselectionListView also refers to root.model :)17:08
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Venemowe should launch the "What's your favorite error message in Harmattan" contest17:10
Venemoso far, my favorite error message from my N950 is "Something's wrong with your network connection."17:11
razvanpetrufunny, on device it can't find CommonDialog, the parent of SelectionDialog17:11
fiferboyVenemo: Not an error message but I like the Warantee screen :)17:11
Venemofiferboy, warranty? that is funny too, yes :)17:12
razvanpetruteaches me to meddle with the official components I guess...17:12
razvanpetrubut I don't get something: I inject my C++ model to QML and QML can't find the methods like rowCount... this is totally unexpected17:13
Venemorazvanpetru, you wanna add a C++ class to QML?17:13
razvanpetruVenemo: I did it like this: QAbstractItemModel *const countryModel = &d->countries; d->context->setContextProperty("qmlCountryModel", countryModel);17:14
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razvanpetruand QML can see the object, if I console.log it the name is correct... but when I enumerate its properties with for(var x in qmlCountryModel) the model stuff is missing17:15
Venemowhat is the type of d->countries?17:15
razvanpetruclass CountryModel : public QAbstractListModel17:16
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razvanpetruI'm trying to create a combobox of countries... 10x harder than I expected really17:16
razvanpetrualthough now that I think about it, rowCount is not Q_INVOKABLE...17:19
Venemowhy don't you register that type?17:19
VenemoqmlRegisterType<CountryModel>("YourAppName", 1, 0, "CountryModel");17:20
Venemobefore you load the QML17:20
Venemod->context->setContextProperty("qmlCountryModel", d->countries);17:21
Venemoremember to use the Q_PROPERTY macro in the class for properties17:21
Venemorazvanpetru, ^^17:21
VenemoI hope this helps17:21
razvanpetruif I register it, what can I do with it that is not possible just with setContext?17:22
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razvanpetruI think I still have to mark the functions/variables of interest :)17:24
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Venemoyou misunderstand.17:25
Venemorazvanpetru, registering makes the QML engine aware of your class.17:26
Venemorazvanpetru, adding to context adds an object to the context17:26
razvanpetruand if we combine them, QML is aware of my object :)17:26
razvanpetrubut I still have to say Q_PROPERTY, Q_INVOKABLE I think?17:26
razvanpetruat the beginning I was expecting some magic to make models' functions available in QML, but I think there's no easy way17:27
Venemothe functions will be available17:28
Venemomy stuff is a lot less complicated than yours, but still, I can show you if you wish17:29
Venemo  -> the .zip here contains the source17:29
rm_workgaaaah going to have no development time today, sucky17:31
rm_workgoing to see a movie with GF... sad that I am more like "gah no development time" than "yay movie" tho >_>17:31
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razvanpetruVenemo: correct me if I'm wrong, but the functions are only available because you've marked them with Q_PROPERTY, right?17:34
razvanpetruI don't think it can work otherwise, moc can't know what function to expose.17:34
Venemorazvanpetru, nono17:34
Venemorazvanpetru, see that I can call methods too17:34
razvanpetruhow does it work then17:35
Venemoeg. I called MemoryGameBoard::starGame17:35
Venemofrom my QML17:35
razvanpetruwell that one's a slot :)17:35
razvanpetrumystery solved :D17:35
MohammadAGrm_work, which movie?17:36
fiferboyrm_work: I did development time DURING a movie with my wife last night (at home) :)17:37
rm_worklol me too17:37
rm_worklast night was HP7.117:38
rm_worktonight is HP7.217:38
fiferboyI got a working version of FBReader packaged last night (with horrible UI, but working)17:38
rm_worki got... QtCreator configured17:38
rm_workand deployed some test apps17:38
rm_workso I guess that's a start17:38
fiferboyrm_work: I did that too :D17:38
rm_worktrying to figure out QML... I was expecting more like the full Qt17:38
rm_workbut it turns out i don't actually get any of the cool Qt widgets17:39
rm_workI guess17:39
rm_worknot really sure how that works17:39
razvanpetrucool widgets like combobox17:39
rm_workand since they are defined in QML and not in the code, I'm still not sure how to access them from the code part17:39
razvanpetruwho needs comboboxes...17:39
MohammadAGwhat's the ProductOrders URL?17:40
rm_workthe struggles of a GTK+ developer who has some experience with the old Qt and was expecting something similar...17:40
fiferboyrm_work: It took me pretty much all of last week to get a handle on QML/Qt Components17:40
rm_workI should have started sooner17:40
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Stskeepsif my wife can make apps with qt components, so can you guys17:40
rm_workwas busy all the past few weeks anyway17:40
rm_worklol Stskeeps17:40
Venemorm_work, you get cooler stuff than the old QWidgets17:41
rm_workyour wife could have a PhD in compsci for all I know :P17:41
Stskeepsrm_work: nah, economics17:41
Stskeepsand not phd17:41
Venemorm_work, for a working and very-very simple example, you could look at the source I linked a bit earlier.17:41
rm_worki was about to17:41
rm_workI found the source for the statusbar widgets and was trying to get them to compile with no luck17:42
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rm_workneither the builtin statusbar widget (volume) or the demo ones would work17:47
kimjuany idea where the keymap for hw keyboard is specified?17:47
kimjuI already found the xml files for vkb17:47
rm_workcan anyone with more experience with this help me out a bit? see if you can get the demos from the system-ui package to compile?17:48
rm_worki was getting a different error with each one17:48
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razvanpetruwhat errors17:49
Venemorm_work, maybe ask achipa when he comes back, he's a pro17:49
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razvanpetruwonder if you can have functions as properties17:51
razvanpetrue.g property function foo: function() { console.log("bar"); }17:52
rm_workrazvanpetru: pasted a bunch of them last night, i am at work now17:52
rm_workthe errors were different depending on which API i tried to use17:52
rm_workeither Harmattan Platform API, or Meego 1.2 Harmattan API17:52
rm_workone would be missing something like MLibrary17:52
razvanpetrudo you have a link to the sources?17:53
rm_workand the other would be missing some huge thing17:53
rm_workyeah sec let me find it17:53
Venemorazvanpetru, you can just do function foo() { ... }17:53
razvanpetruno I was thinking of doing a generic combobox17:53
razvanpetruright now I'm using a stupid hack and adding each item in the ListView when the dialog is shown17:53
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rm_workerr wait thats the debs17:54
razvanpetruI've tried to hack SelectionDialog but it doesn't even work17:54
rm_workoh no there's the tar.hz17:54
razvanpetrucan't find UIConstants, can't find some QML items if i copy it in my file17:54
rm_worktheres a demo folder in there17:54
rm_workcouldn't get either demo to compile17:54
rm_workalso there's the built-in extensions / plugins or whatever they're called17:55
razvanpetruthat's a hefty package... :)17:55
rm_workcouldn't get those to compile either17:55
kimjuok, found the hw kbd layouts: /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev17:55
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seifbey guys18:26
seifguys i want to install my own package but aegis wont let me since it does not know the source18:27
seifi want to install python-telepathy18:28
seiffrom the maemo repos18:28
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fiferboyseif: Did you download it and try installing as root with dpkg?18:32
seifhow do i access root18:33
fiferboydevel-su should work18:33
seifit wont let me18:34
seif~ # dpkg -i --force /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb18:34
seifAegis rejecting /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb: package 'python-telepathy' already installed from '' -- not replacing it from unknown origin18:34
seifaegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected18:34
alteregoDoesn't sound like you're in developer mode.18:34
alteregoI just ssh root@localhost :)18:34
seifwhat is the password then18:34
seifah got it18:35
alteregoSuch a good password .. Everyone manages to guess it ..18:35
seifRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# dpkg -i --force /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb18:35
seifAegis rejecting /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb: package 'python-telepathy' already installed from '' -- not replacing it from unknown origin18:35
seifaegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected18:35
seifcan i get aegis to shut up18:35
fiferboyAh, installing an unkown source over a trusted source18:36
fiferboyaegis definitely wouldn't like that18:36
fiferboyNo idea how to bypass that, though18:36
alteregoYou have to uninstall it, then install the untrusted one.18:36
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kimjuseif, dpkg -P --force-all, then reinstall the new18:44
seifok any idea how i can run a something wiht "aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec"18:45
ScifigHi, Is it possible to use single debian/control file for harmattan and fremantle but use different package names in the "Depends" field?18:48
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alteregoScifig: not really no.18:52
seifguys how do i use "aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec"18:52
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harbaumArgh ... the first qt component i ever use misses theming files ....18:57
harbaumBlanco is missing meegotouch-button-navigationbar-button-background-disabled18:57
seifMohammadAG, there=18:58
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Scifigalterego: Then the only option is to use multiple debian folders with different control files? debian_fremantle/debian_harmattan?18:59
ScifigI am using scratchbox with one debian folder. Not sure how to make multiple debian_* folders work there18:59
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seifguys can some1 help me with aegis please?19:05
seifi keep getting19:06
seifRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec19:06
seifError: Permission denied19:06
mgedminwhoa, meego-term sets $TERM to 'linux'19:16
mgedminseif, from your root shell start a subshell with 'develsh', and then try that aegis-foofoo in that subshell19:16
hiemanshualterego: devel-su > ssh :P19:20
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fiferboyIf an application is not a "native" Harmattan app and isn't showing up as a thumbnail in the task switcher is there something you can add to the .desktop file?19:37
fiferboyI seem to remember this being the case with Fremantle19:38
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cpscottififerboy_, well generally having the .desktop and deploying it properly would do the trick20:01
fiferboy_cpscotti: Hmm, I wonder why it doesn't show up then20:02
cpscottififerboy_, QtCreator generates .desktop  files for the "Harmattan App" template20:02
cpscotticompare yours to that one20:02
fiferboy_I have done that, and everything from a Harmattan desktop file is in mine20:03
fiferboy_Maybe it is something extra in mine that is throwing it off20:03
cpscottihumm.. is the .desktop file being installed in the right place? iirc there's a dh_something to trigger updating that.. if it appears after reboot might be something like that20:05
fiferboy_cpscotti: Yeah, the desktop file is in the correct place and it even launches the applications20:05
fiferboy_It just doesn't show in the task switcher as a running application20:05
cpscottitry rebooting..20:05
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cpscottiif it shows up it's something related to the debian/rules dh_something..20:06
fiferboy_Tried that, still the same20:06
fiferboy_My desktop file is not the same as an app deployed from the SDK20:06
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fiferboySorry, NOW the same20:06
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cpscottiwhat about the rules?20:07
fiferboyRules are definitely different than a typical Harmattan built application20:08
fiferboyIt is like the window is missing some property that shows the system it is running20:08
fiferboyI thought in Fremantle with, for example, SDL apps you could override this in the desktop file20:08
Mekthe window doesn't have the don't-show flag set?20:08
fiferboyMek: I haven't explicitly set that20:09
Mekwhat kind of thing is your window?20:10
fiferboyA QApplication20:10
Mekthat's not a window...20:10
fiferboyWell, it is a QApplication based program so I assume QWindow os sth20:11
Mekthere is no such class (in qt4)20:11
Mekso you don't know what widget your window is?20:12
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Mekbecause some widgets like QDialog do have the don't show flag set by default20:12
fiferboyMek: I am compiling the Qt4 version of FBReader20:12
cpscottififerboy, isn't it QMainWindow ?20:13
fiferboyI haven't dug into it too far, but it runs fine (desktop UI) but doesn't display20:13
fiferboycpscotti: That sounds right20:13
ScifigI have QApplication based Qt quick app which is displayed in task switcher. I have Categories and OnlyShowIn=X-MeeGo; set in .desktop file20:13
ScifigI don't think using QApplication is an issue here.20:14
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fiferboyScifig: I had those set and it didn't make a difference20:15
fralsfiferboy: if you can link us to a repo with code i think this would get easier :)20:15
fiferboyfrals: The page has the source (no repo as far as I know)20:16
fiferboyI have overriden a few things so I can build the debian desktop version in HARMATTAN_ARM scratchbox20:16
* cpscotti is lost around FBReader's source.. Jeez!20:17
fiferboycpscotti: I was glad that someone else expressed interest in porting it, since the QT4 interface isn't ideal20:17
cpscottifrals, fiferboy this one?20:17
fiferboyI just wanted a quick and dirty build20:17
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fiferboycpscotti: Same verion as 0.12.10, but from the site rather than maemo repo20:18
fiferboyFBReader has all the different packaging (maemo2/3/4/5, desktop, etc) built into the main source20:19
fralswow that code base is scare20:20
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fiferboyfrals: Yeah, that's why I'm not getting too deep :)20:20
cpscottifrals, yep.. apparently main window inherits ZLApplication ... now... wthell's that?20:21
fralsfiferboy: but it works fine except it doesnt show up in task switcher?20:21
fiferboyfms is going to work on a port and he is pretty familiar with it20:21
fralscpscotti: ZLibrary is in the root, seems to be a "convenient" wrapper for all toolkits you can imagine :D20:21
fiferboycpscotti: Ah yes, ZLibrary is the giant library it is based on with multiple UIs20:21
fiferboyfrals: Yes, everything is working (after I packaged a couple libraries) except task switcher20:22
mgedminfiferboy, if you manage to get fbreader working, I'll be eternally grateful20:22
fralsit seems to inherit from qmainwindow, so i suppose it should work...20:23
cpscottifrals, hahehe.. found it now.. jeez.. these guys aren't lazy at all!20:23
fiferboymgedmin: If you don't need the task switcher (just restart and close) you can get a *fairly* good version from me :)20:23
fiferboymgedmin: Interface has desktop-sized elements, but the reader works fine20:24
mgedminI could try to help you debug maybe20:24
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mgedminare you using qt creator or scratchbox?20:25
fiferboyI'm pretty sure it doesn't have a project that Qt Creator would understand20:27
fralsfiferboy: i would probably see if modifying the constructor of ZLQtApplicationWindow::ZLQtApplicationWindow(ZLApplication *application) :20:28
fralswould make a difference20:28
GeneralAntillesReally wish we had newer firmware.20:28
fiferboyfrals: I'll take a look at that, thanks20:28
fralsbut might not make a difference, the move/resize/setWindowIcon looks interesting to me, but it shouldnt break the taskswitcher...20:29
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* mgedmin wonders if the task switcher expects to see a certain WM_CLASS, or some other property, or maybe expects to find a .desktop file matching the application20:30
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: You should start a campaign to get it20:30
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, hehe, there's something I'm good at.20:31
fiferboymgedmin: I tried playing around with X-Maemo-WM-Class in the desktop file20:31
mgedminhey, xprop is preinstalled on the n950, neat20:31
fralsmgedmin might have the answer20:31
fralsdoes a "normal" plain qt app show up in task switcher?20:31
hiemanshufrals: yes20:32
hiemanshufrals: my plain app showed up just fine20:32
mgedminI'm seeing interesting properties like20:32
mgedminon a browser window20:32
mgedminit becomes 1 when I swipe away from the window into a task switcher20:33
mgedminso it looks like something the window manager maintains, not something the app itself does20:33
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seifwhat do u think guys20:34
cpscottiseif, cool.. what is it?20:37
seifcpscotti, basically i am logging anything you do using zeitgeist20:37
seifthen i can open the map widget20:37
seifpoint at a location20:38
seifand it will hsow me stuff i did at the location20:38
mgedminfiferboy, fbreader upstream repository is at
fiferboymgedmin: Ah cool, last I cehcked there was no repo20:38
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cpscottiseif, cool! I once thought about doing something like that but never went further.. cool!20:38
mgedminlast I checked they were using subversion, a couple of years ago20:38
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mgedminthe repository url is not exactly easily findable on the fbreader page20:39
mgedminwell, I tell a lie, I found it by going to and pressing Ctrl+F repository <enter>20:39
mgedminbut the menu on top has nothing about development/sources/VCS/etc.20:39
fiferboyWasn't it a private repo for a while though?20:39
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seifcpscotti, are u familiar with qt20:40
seifor meego-touch20:40
GeneralAntillesMy ButtonRow keeps ending up at the top of the page almost off screen. . . .20:41
cpscottiseif, qt.. yes. meego-touch..  trying to get there20:42
mgedmininteresting, there's a "bada" branch on fbreader's git repo20:42
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Are you using an anchor layout?20:43
GeneralAntillesanchors doesn't seem to affect placement.20:43
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Set '' ?20:44
fiferboyOr something like that20:44
GeneralAntillesNo effect.20:45
fralsGeneralAntilles: are you anchoring to the window top? i think you need to allow space for the statusbar unless you are full-fullscreen20:45
GeneralAntillesTrying to anchor it in the toolbar.20:45
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Is your toolbar anchors to the page bottom?20:45
fralsGeneralAntilles: can we see code and picture? :)20:45
GeneralAntillesToolBarLayout { ButtonRow { } }20:46
GeneralAntillesActually, the button row seems to nuke the whole toolbar.20:46
GeneralAntilles'cause the other ToolIcon ends up right center.20:46
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Try just anchoring the left and right of the button row to the toolbar left/right20:47
GeneralAntillesI basically copied the code here:
fralsGeneralAntilles: and how does the page you added it to look?20:48
fralsGeneralAntilles: do you have smth like this: Page { tools: ToolBarLayout { ButtonRow } } }20:48
GeneralAntillesWhere do the ctrl-shft-p screenshots end up?20:49
fralsMyDocs/Pictures or MyDocs/.images iirc20:49
fralsGeneralAntilles: I *think* you should have tools: ToolBarLayout { on line 1120:49
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seifcpscotti, maybe we can work together on making this a badass app :)20:51
GeneralAntillesNow I've got a blank screen20:52
GeneralAntillesA well-commented example application would be a big help.20:52
cpscottiseif, cool..  are you using anything like github or the like already?20:53
cpscottiseif, cool! link?20:54
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mgedminfiferboy, where could I find an fbreader deb that you've built?20:54
* GeneralAntilles sighs.20:55
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GeneralAntillesThe docs are no help at all here.20:55
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cpscottiseif, cool! python :D! I'll have a look when I have time!20:56
seifcpscotti, awesome20:56
* cpscotti getting hist late afternoon espresso ready!20:56
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fralsGeneralAntilles: blank page after adding tools:? any warning?21:00
piggzis anyone else having problems adding Meego:1.2:Harmatten to their list of repositories in the home proect?21:00
mgedminI like how the harmattan sdk setup script is written in Python and not in shell21:01
GeneralAntillesfrals, dunno.21:01
* GeneralAntilles gives up for the moment.21:01
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GeneralAntillesIf anybody can point to an application that implements page tabs in the toolbar it'd be much appreciated.21:01
fiferboymgedmin: Everything in that directory except personal-lexicon is required21:02
fiferboyAlso, it tunrs out that FBReader DOES show up in the task switcher, it just closes IMMEDIATELY afterward21:02
mgedmincrashes, you mean?21:04
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fiferboymgedmin: Yeah, segfault21:04
* mgedmin enjoys the preinstalled wget21:04
mgedminoh aegis you so funny21:05
* mgedmin demands sudo!21:06
* mgedmin forgot that devel-su changes the current working directory21:06
fiferboymgedmin: Yeah, that stung me before21:07
fiferboymgedmin: If you set a keybinding for full screen you should be good to go (I think)21:08
GeneralAntillesFirefox must be available somewhere.21:10
mgedminfiferboy, fbreader doesn't appear to want to start from the launcher, but I can run it from a shell21:11
fiferboyYeah, I fixed that locally (didn't make it into the build)21:12
fiferboymgedmin: Actually, it works after a reboot21:14
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mgedminwhat was the fix?  updating some kind of .desktop cache from a postinst?21:16
fiferboymgedmin: No, the fixed file is in that install (I think) but it takes a reboot after install (I think)21:16
fiferboyWorked for me, anyway21:16
fiferboymgedmin: The cache update might be the ticket21:16
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mgedminand boom segfault21:18
mgedminon swipe, like you said21:19
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mgedminI suppose the app ought to check if it's visible or not and refrain from drawing if it's not?21:23
fiferboymgedmin: zlibrary seems like it would handle its own paint events, so that is very likely an issue21:24
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xerxes2anyone found arrows on the swkb?21:26
ScifigGeneralAntilles, Did you try this? tabbed UI -->
mgedminxerxes2, do you mean there are arrows that could be found?21:27
xerxes2no i can't find any21:27
GeneralAntillesScifig, not Qt Components.21:27
GeneralAntillesWhich is where I'm stumbling.21:27
ScifigGeneralAntilles, That example doesn't use Qt components, it is plain QML21:28
xerxes2if anyone that got a n950 i put up packages for panucci to test:
xerxes2dunno if mutagen already exists somewhere21:29
xerxes2if not you need that too21:30
xerxes2haven't done the headset support yet21:30
xerxes2mgedmin: for one liners i like the swkb but without arrows it's pretty much useless21:34
rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol wish you were here last night21:34
rm_workGeneralAntilles: you seem to be going through exactly what i went through21:34
GeneralAntillesrm_work, ah, fun.21:35
GeneralAntillesI wish the Qt Components widget example application were actually commented in a useful way.21:35
mgedminxerxes2, in xterm you can use ctrl-p/n/f/b and home the app implements emacs keybindings ;)21:35
rm_workGeneralAntilles: "this designer is dumb. these anchors do nothing. where are all the widgets. how do I actually make this stuff show up."21:35
rm_workGeneralAntilles: yeah.... the "demo apps" that are related to what I want to do, don't compile21:35
GeneralAntillesI like that the tutorial application lifted its comments wholesale directly from the example app.21:35
GeneralAntillesDesigner not working makes things irritating21:36
GeneralAntillesWish the Simulator could handle Qt Components.21:36
rm_workGeneralAntilles: though I did eventually get one of the anchors to work21:36
rm_workthe "bottom" anchor worked21:36
rm_workbut the element i anchored to "top" actually disappeared and will not show up now21:36
GeneralAntillesThere seems to be a lot of little niggles that aren't documented.21:36
rm_workwish i had time to do some dev tonight21:36
GeneralAntillesWish we had somebody on staff with some real experience here.21:36
rm_workbrb meeting21:36
rm_workyeah >_> there are some21:37
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rm_workant was being helpful last night21:37
rm_workbut srsly, brb21:37
fiferboyGeneralAntilles, rm_work: I'll send you my qml file to take a look at if you like21:37
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, do you have a ButtonRow in your ToolBarLayout?21:37
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: No, but I have a toolbutton and label anchored in there21:38
GeneralAntillesThe problem seems to be that the ButtonRow nukes the toolbar.21:38
GeneralAntillesIt explodes to all four corners of the screen.21:38
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I'll take a look, did you pastie your code somewhere?21:38
mgedminfiferboy, tapping on fbreader in the launcher results in this line appearing in /var/log/syslog:21:39
mgedminJul 19 21:38:32 (none) meegotouchhome[1967]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GIO - g_app_info_launch_uris: assertion `G_IS_APP_INFO (appinfo)' failed21:39
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fiferboymgedmin: That is with FBReader failing to launch?21:40
mgedminI haven't rebooted yet21:41
GeneralAntillesThat's the main.qml21:41
GeneralAntillesThere's also a MainPage with the TabGroup.21:41
GeneralAntillesI should just put the whole project up, but I'm lazy.21:41
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* mgedmin suddenly notices is a 7 *thousand* line long Python script and decides he won't read it through after all21:43
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mgedminfiferboy, fixed the fbreader launch bug with vi /usr/share/applications/FBReader.desktop by removing %F from the Exec line21:49
mgedminnow I need a vim .deb ...21:50
fiferboymgedmin: I can launch it after a reboot with the %F21:50
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Anchor your buttonrow right to the parent.right21:51
fiferboyThat works for me21:51
GeneralAntillesTry it in a bit, currently trying to cleanup a twitter debate with Texrat. :P21:51
mgedminfiferboy, you're right, I added the %F back and it still starts21:51
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mgedminwould be nice if meegotouch logged something about "noticed a change in .desktop file, reloading"21:55
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mgedminwhat font did fbreader use on a n900?21:57
mgedminSwissA, apparently21:58
fiferboymgedmin: n900 used the maemo5 codebase for UI21:58
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mgedminoh, develsh gives me access to dmesg again! nice22:11
GeneralAntillesLove that font for reading.22:12
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Nice twitter war22:13
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* mgedmin -> cd ~22:18
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harbaumI really need some qt components documentation. E.g. how are the buttons grouped in the gallery?22:30
fiferboyharbaum: Which buttons22:31
fiferboyThe actual photos or the toolbar?22:31
harbaumthe ones that are labeled "Column of Buttons"22:32
fiferboyharbaum: Oh sorry, thought you were talking about the gallery application :)22:33
harbaumno, the QMLComponentGallery22:34
sebasharbaum: find "ButtonColumn"; seems quite informative22:34
sebasthough a bit funnily styled for our well known Qt API docs ;)22:35
harbaumHow do i interpret this? No doc at all atm?22:37
fiferboyharbaum: has documentation22:37
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harbaumsebas: Thanks, ButtonColumn was what i was searching for22:47
sebasharbaum: nice, you're welcome22:47
deimos_is it common not to see meego component dragged in Design ?22:47
deimos_do I messed up something ? :)22:48
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fiferboyDesigner doesn't display Qt Components yet22:58
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lcuk#MeeGo is an awesome #Linux based #MMORPG where you level up by submitting code patches and conquering the OBS machine!
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khertanEvening !23:33
khertandoes there is qml qt harmattan component expert in the room ?23:33
MekI played a bit with it/wrote a somewhat complicated UI with it...23:34
khertani'm trying to do a pseudo multi windows app23:34
khertan(a source code editor ... as usual)23:34
khertanusing pagestack seems the solution23:34
khertanbut only pop / push / replace methods available with this object23:35
khertanso can't navigate between windows23:35
khertani didn't want a level hierarchy between the windows23:35
khertanand as pop destroy the Page component :)23:35
MekTabGroup might work for that?23:36
khertanthe problem of tab group is that it s put things in the toolbar23:36
khertanwhere place is limited23:36
Mekit's a set of pages that you would usually switch between with a set of TabButton's, but you don't need to use the TabButton of course...23:36
piggzlatitude updater is sucessfully doing the oauth magic23:36
piggzmap widget is displaying, jsut need to get the location23:36
khertanoh ... no forced use of something with qml ? :)23:37
khertanMek, thx for the idea ... qt component example on that part isn't clear enough for me :)23:37
MekTabGroup just seems to have a currentTab property, that you can set to any child item of the TabGroup23:38
khertanMek, for your information i ve try to instantiate many QDeclarativeView to reproduce multiple windows concept in the task manager ... but this segfault each time i open more than 6 QDeclarativeView (i think it use too much memory )23:38
Meklol, yeah, each QDeclarativeView has it's own javascript interpreter with all the overhead that brings...23:39
Mekbut since only one of them can be active at the same time, couldn't you do some hack where you have multiple windows, but one QDeclarativeView that you move to the active window, so it still shows up as multiple windows in the task manager? :)23:40
khertanMek, yeah but in fact it s pretty slow to use the task manager23:40
khertanbecause when you "swipe" you go sometime to icon list, to resume view, ...23:41
khertanand taskmanager have windows title23:41
Mekah yeah23:41
khertanand taskmanager haven't windows title23:41
khertanso difficult to identify which highlighted source code you jump to23:41
Mekespecially with it rearranging things all the time...23:41
lcukkhertan, make your own titlebars23:45
lcukand as a hint, use a hash of the filename to make a colour23:45
lcukeach then has a slightly different titlebar clour but that stays the same for the files you work on23:46
lcukvery helpful for memory23:46
Mekand make it a multi-process application, one process for each file... that is what Documents does too23:46
lcukthe colour hints on the buttons in the right hand side toolbox use the same23:46
Mecehey does the take screenshot thing work for you?23:50
Mecein qt widgets gallery23:50
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khertanlcuk, i already made my own title bar :)23:57
khertanlcuk, integrating everything in the same ui should be faster to switch between source view23:58
khertanMece, works for me23:58
rm_workmgedmin: yes, WTB a vim .deb as well T_T23:59

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