IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2011-07-18

Mecewell on n900 it was just to kill apt-worker. no apt-worker on N95000:01
Mecebut yeah. restart.00:01
Mecehey how do I open a new terminal in harmattan?00:05
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rZrMece: kill pkgmgrd00:06
* rZr just tested mozilla fenec it seems good00:07
MecerZr, \o/ thanks!00:08
rZrMece: u welcome, what are u intalling ? :)00:10
Mecetweed suit00:11
rZrnever heard about00:12
Mecedone it about 100 times, this was the first time the dpkg problem ocurred.00:12
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, I hope mine doesn't end up stuck in the air like fiferboy's.00:38
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Mecenow why can't I find the api refs for harmattan qtquick components?00:43
VenemoMece, MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan Developer Library Beta / Reference documentation / MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan API (Beta) / Topics /  Application frameworks / Qt Quick Components00:53
MeceVenemo, thanks.00:54
VenemoMece, you are welcome00:56
DocScrutinizer51should we get this link to /topic?00:59
Meceyes please01:00
Mecehey how does one open a second (and third and fourth etc) terminal?01:00
DocScrutinizer51as soon as I'm back to my main workstation01:00
DocScrutinizer51Venemo: would you add the link to topic?01:05
VenemoDocScrutinizer51, how can I do that?01:05
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51, umm, what do I need to do? /topic and that's it?01:08
DocScrutinizer51c+p old topic01:09
DocScrutinizer51edit, /topic01:09
*** Venemo changes topic to "/topic A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers, check this: | | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs ,"01:11
*** Venemo changes topic to "A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers, check this: | | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please |"01:12
VenemoDocScrutinizer51, is this okay?01:12
DocScrutinizer51chan log?01:12
DocScrutinizer51s/developers check this//01:13
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VenemoI screwed it up01:17
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51, now?01:17
*** Venemo changes topic to "A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers check this: | | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs,"01:18
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Venemoyou're welcome01:19
MeceI hope those refs make it to doc.qt... that page is terrible in microb01:20
Venemoit's not that bad on a computer screen01:21
MeceVenemo, my N900 is my computer01:30
MeceVenemo, but no, it's fine on a computer01:30
VenemoMece, oh, sorry. I meant it's a lot better on a laptop screen or a 20" screen01:31
Venemo[00:30] <Mece> Venemo, my N900 is my computer ---> you don't have a laptop or a desktop computer?01:31
Mecei have a desktop computer but it's not here, and when I'm there I don't have time to go to it.01:37
MeceI use it remotely for compiling.01:37
Venemosounds cool01:38
MeceI wouldn't say cool, but it works.01:38
Meceso... any ideas how to get a second terminal window on N950?01:39
Venemoseems that once can't launch 'meego-terminal' more than once... dunno01:41
DocScrutinizer51isn't there a "new  term" menu item just like for N900?01:45
VenemoDocScrutinizer51, nope01:48
Meceis there a menu?01:48
VenemoI don't think so01:51
Meceeither way It's frustrating.01:52
MeceI have 4 terminals running on my N900 right now.01:52
SpeedEvilI have I think 501:54
SpeedEvilone local, four screen01:54
Mece2 local 2screen here :)01:54
Mecedammit this pagestackwindow doean't work.01:55
Mecebah I give up.01:58
Mecegood night.01:59
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Venemoany of you figured out how to remap the hw kbd yet?02:10
* vandenoever wonders if Page and PageStackWindow can be transparent02:12
Venemovandenoever, what good would that be?02:12
vandenoeverVenemo: if app is smaller than screen size, i'd like the rest of screen to have the theme background02:12
VenemoI can't think of any example02:13
vandenoeverPageStackWindow has a property platformStyle, perhaps that can help02:16
VenemoI'm really beginning to like the N95002:29
DocScrutinizer51still my N900 beats the N950 hands down, usability wise and wrt joy of use02:39
vandenoeverVenemo: with regards to02:40
GeneralAntillesWith Regards To02:40
infobotwell, wrt is with respect to, or with regards to, or the Linksys WRT54G on which some people have successfully installed Asterisk. More information at
GeneralAntillesThose all came at 7:40:24 here.02:40
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Venemothx Doc02:41
DocScrutinizer51first 2 were 23 here :-)02:41
DocScrutinizer511:40:23 though02:42
Venemoabout joy of use, swipe is very joyful, and I like the concept of a news feed in my homescreen, containing all stuff02:42
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DocScrutinizer51swipe is as joyfull as a jogging workout03:29
DocScrutinizer51on M5 I'm swtching between two tasks with just 2 clicks, or even a single kbd-shotcut03:30
Venemohere it's a swipe and a click03:30
DocScrutinizer51hah, yeah, if you don't end on applauncher or another random "homescreen"03:31
Venemoapp launcher can also switch tasks03:31
DocScrutinizer51basically swipe is as "cool" as massive compiz-alike window animations or bombastic dektop-event sounds. Takes you off your feet first 5 time, on 50th time it's just boring and on 500th thime you curse it03:34
Venemoit may not be one click only, but it works fast03:35
DocScrutinizer51it's the second best thing you can get, just after real proper precise touchscreen and hw kbd03:35
Venemowell, it saves screen size03:35
DocScrutinizer51which is badly needed for the bloated buttons you need for c-ts03:36
VenemoI'm not getting words right at 2 AM03:36
Venemos/*/well, it saves screen space03:37
Venemostill, the buttons are smaller than on N900 and I can still touch them03:37
VenemoI only miss in the browser and on the vkb03:37
VenemoI can't imagine how anyone could use the vkb03:39
VenemoI mean, okay, maybe I'll get used to it in a few weeks03:39
Venemobut the hw kbd is sooo much better03:39
DocScrutinizerso, you got a larger screen than on N900, allegedly buttons of same size, and still you worry about saving screen space for that tiny menu button upper left?03:39
VenemoI'm not worrying about anything at all03:40
Venemojust sayin' that the concept works on me03:40
DocScrutinizerthe concept damn better "works", otherwise EPIC FAIL on Nokia's side03:41
Venemowhat do you mean?03:41
DocScrutinizerI just say the "old" M5 concept is way better for me03:41
Venemoto be honest, I liked that too03:42
Venemoas for you, you already stated that M4's concept is your favourite :)03:42
DocScrutinizerit has merits (M4) - e.g. it's really completely kbd useable03:43
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DocScrutinizera severe regression on M503:44
VenemoI also think that the N950 is far less clumsy and better looking than the N90003:44
Venemobut I'll understand if you don't agree03:44
DocScrutinizerit's sooo shiny03:44
Venemomaybe so03:44
Venemobut the LCD looks so damn good03:44
DocScrutinizerif only it had a proper touchscreen and a OS that'S not crippled by security framework03:45
Venemomaybe when MeeGo CE will grow up03:45
DocScrutinizerwon't help, the c-ts is unbearable03:45
VenemoI can tolerate it03:45
VenemoI've only missed in the browser so far, and the VKB on occasion03:46
DocScrutinizersure, that's very personal preferences03:46
VenemoI have very personal preferences03:46
DocScrutinizerdoesn't everybody? :-)03:46
Venemoyou know, I'm fascinated by the GPU too. comparing the smoothness of the animations with the N90003:47
Venemomaybe the software is just this better, maybe it's the 2× clock of the GPU03:47
Venemobut it actually feels smooth03:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, for video playback it seems to me there's not really any difference, according to my DrHouse tests of yesterday03:48
DocScrutinizerand sure it's way faster03:48
DocScrutinizerbut the N900 usually is just fast enough for me, and as stated above (though implicitly) I'm not the fan of eyecandy03:49
DocScrutinizerthe damn thing has to work, with minimal effort and minimal distraction03:49
DocScrutinizerI prefer a console to a boot splashscreen any day, know what I mean?03:50
DocScrutinizersometimes I even frown on the tux on boot console ;-)03:51
DocScrutinizerand on my desktop PC the windows just vanish in one video frame timespan when clicking the close button - no fancy animations or any nonsense03:53
DocScrutinizerI actually couldn't care less about smooth scrolling03:54
DocScrutinizerwhat I care though are the smears all across the screen due to swipe :-P03:56
DocScrutinizerbtw there's a secret trick to avoid this: click right and then left border of screen in fast sequence, MTF will detect this as a swipe ;-D03:57
DocScrutinizeryou'll need two fingers for that03:57
VenemoI also dislike the smudges on the screen03:59
Venemobut it seems that some time in my pocked does clean it03:59
Venemoalso the screen seems quite durable, although I had not had the courage to do any serious testing about it03:59
Venemobut, fortunately you don't have to fully swipe a window04:01
VenemoI just kinda toss it away04:01
Venemoswiping from edge to the 1/5th of the screen from either direction seems to get the job done04:01
Venemoand I haven't been missing the widgets either.04:02
Venemoevery control is not further than 3 or 4 swipes and/or click away04:02
Venemoif all the stuff worked okay in landscape and there were an IRC client, then I think Harmattan would very much appeal to me04:04
Venemothe device itself (not the OS though) completely bought me04:05
Venemonow goodbye DocScrutinizer, I'll go sleep :)04:08
Venemoenjoy the evening :)04:08
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antman8969n950 is now in ny city :)04:19
tonberry_i have my N950 2 weeks ago :)04:29
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: mine departed at 18:0504:40
GAN900tonberry_, go die, please.04:40
rm_youGeneralAntilles: what time zone is this supposed to be?04:40
GAN900Local, I think.04:41
GAN900i.e., wherever it is.04:41
rm_youwonder where it'll end up next :P04:41
GeneralAntillesDeparted at 16:16, arrived at 18:2604:41
rm_youso much for one day shipping, already there are 4 days on here04:42
GeneralAntillesProcessed now, hopefully on its way here sooner rather than later.04:42
rm_youthis is what kills me:04:43
rm_youSunday, July 17, 2011LocationTime04:43
rm_you9Arrived at Sort Facility CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA10:5204:43
rm_youSaturday, July 16, 2011LocationTime04:43
rm_you8Departed Facility in EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK03:5304:43
rm_youFriday, July 15, 2011LocationTime04:43
rm_you7Processed at EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK06:0604:43
SpeedEvilOh - nvm - read that wrong04:44
DocScrutinizerrm_you: they flew east instead west04:46
GeneralAntillesrm_you, DHL incompetence.04:46
GeneralAntillesfiferboy's spent about 70 hours in the air.04:46
rm_youWTB FedEx04:47
tonberry_GAN900, u jealous? lol05:00
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TermanaVenemo, morning09:12
Venemohey Termana :)09:13
khertan Morning09:20
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Venemohey khertan :)09:31
khertanhey Venemo09:32
khertanDid you see no upnp on the music player :)09:34
Venemonot yet09:34
Venemobut anyway upnp annoyed me greatly on N900, so... :P09:34
Venemodoes any of you know how to remap the N950's keyboard?09:34
khertannope sorry09:37
tommaVenemo, same way as in n90009:48
tommafile is rm-68009:48
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Venemotomma, that didn't work10:00
Venemotomma, I tried to add stuff to that file and used setxkbmap, but I got a totally different layout than I wanted10:01
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* vandenoever wrote a metronome for n950:
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Venemovery good news: -> "There is no optification needed in MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan."10:53
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Venemogood morning achipa11:04
Venemoachipa, wanna try my little app? :)11:06
Venemodo you prefer a .deb or the source?11:07
achipadeb, I guess11:08
Venemookay, I'll upload a .deb11:08
Venemoachipa, you can find it at
achipaThere is some critical error that just happened. Trust me - you shouldn't see this message.11:10
Venemoachipa, I uploaded the .deb (created by Qt Creator) for you, hope it works. if not, you can just download the zip and open in QtC11:11
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Venemowhat is the mime type of .deb?11:12
Venemoseems that I haven't configured it11:13
Venemofound it: application/x-debian-package11:15
Venemoachipa, you may try again :)11:15
achipabetter ;)11:15
Venemoit seems that this server needs me to explicitly configure the file MIME types in order to allow them to be downloaded11:16
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: I got an answer from my colleague, you cannot turn it off without R&D certificate.11:24
djszapimy colleagues do not find any good documentations either, thus we boosted it to the SDK team.11:25
Venemogood morning djszapi11:25
djszapihello =)11:25
VenemoI guess DocScrutinizer's next question would be, how to obtain such an "R&D certificate"11:26
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dm8tbrVenemo: by working for nokia or being subcontracted to nokia and being on a harmattan project, I guess.11:30
Mekthose as not enough11:30
alteregoAnyone else have a problem with signal on the N950?11:31
Stskeepsalterego: something is a bit odd at least, performance worse than my n900, or more accurate..11:31
alteregoIt's just worse for me.11:31
Stskeepstry to force 2.5g maybe11:32
alteregoThe signal seems to change quicker and if I hold it normally it drops, where as the N900 used to pick up 3G fine where I am.11:32
alteregoI find if I only hold it by the two plastic ends it works fine and reports full signal :/11:32
alteregoI remember tyhe N900 being like this when I first got it though, so I hope it may be firmware fixable.11:32
Stskeepsyeah.. let's just assume it's not final firmware11:32
Stskeepsnor in modem11:33
alteregoI'm hoping at least those details are the same in the N9 and we get some fixes, wrt..11:33
Venemowell, N950 shows significantly less signal strength sometimes, but I never noticed any difference in call quality11:33
alteregoWell, I lose all signal when I'm inside and I'm holding the device.11:34
Venemoin fact, the N950 has a lot better call quality imo11:34
djszapiVenemo: You cannot11:34
alteregoSo call quality can't be compared because I can't make a call :P11:34
djszapiAegis cannot be turned off as I have been told.11:34
djszapibut we boosted the documentation issue to the SDK team. That is what I could help with.11:35
Stskeepsalterego: you're holding it wrong!11:35
Venemoalterego, srsly?11:35
Venemoalterego, heh11:35
alteregoStskeeps: indeed. I was just wondering if it was just me or others' had noticed the issue. Because if it was just me I'd work on insulating the antenna or trying to see what's shoring.11:36
Venemoalterego, yours seem to be weaker than average11:37
fralsalterego: mine is fubar as well11:37
Mekmine doesn't work at all as a phone anymore... one part of the flashing fails (cmt-mcusw) and it doesn't recognize any simcard I put in it...11:37
alteregoVenemo: that may just be location,11:37
alteregoVenemo: I appreciate I'm in a low signal area so it's hyper sensitive, that and being indoors. It's just annoying because I could normally use the N900 in these circumstances fine.11:38
Venemoone thing I also noticed is that the N950 is deliberately powering down its antenna as it battery gets lower11:38
Venemoon "battery low", it can barely hold on to the network, while with the charger in or the battery full, it shows max11:39
djszapiThe problem is that with the public documentation, some "smart" guys thought that months ago (not from the security team, more like managers) so that aegis should not be documented that much since then the security can be hacked.11:39
Venemohow ridiculous is that11:40
alteregoNot really, you'd be suprised at how many companies, people etc use security through obscurity ..11:41
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djszapialterego: it is really ridiculous in my opinion as well. You do need to document every bits, but at least from the user point of view in order for it to be able to be used.11:42
djszapi* do not need11:43
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Venemoalterego, in fact I slapped my main SIM card into the N950 and use it as my "main" device. barely touched the N900 ever since.11:48
* dm8tbr facepalms11:49
Venemodm8tbr, why, it isn't that bad11:50
dm8tbrproper security should easily withstand the fact of being publicly documented. if it doesn't then it wasn't secure in the first place11:50
Venemo(I thought you facepalmed at what I said)11:50
dm8tbrsecurity issue disclosure would be an arguable topic, but different story, let's not troll11:50
achipaVenemo: nice12:03
alteregoI'm using the N950 as primary too, I still carry around the N900 because I use conboy too much :P12:05
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alteregoAnd the web experience is better for me ..12:05
Venemoyou aware that Conny is making a QML version of Conboy?12:07
alteregoYes, I spoke to him about it in San Francisco12:08
vandenoevernice, current notes tool lacks an export function12:08
alteregoAnd hyper linking :P12:08
VenemoConny is not sure yet how he will proceed though, as QML's TextEdit stuff lacks any serious functionality12:10
Venemoso he said that he currently has a QTextEdit in a QML proxy12:10
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TermanaIf they don't send out my N950 tonight, I'm gonna be pissed.12:22
Venemopatience is a virtue12:22
StskeepsTermana: got approved?12:22
* Stskeeps forgot to see if you were on list :)12:22
TermanaStskeeps, I've been stuck on New Order for the past week :p12:22
Stskeepstook me ages too, considering12:23
TermanaThey just aren't shoving it in the post :p12:23
Termanaactually nearly 2 weeks12:26
TermanaStskeeps, but didn't you already have one before :p12:26
Stskeepsfor various reasons it's good for me to have a consumer one to experience same things as rest of you :P12:27
VenemoStskeeps, any news on meego? :)12:29
Stskeepsworking on it but it's summer12:29
Venemoalso, will MeeGo CE support the N950 in the long term?12:30
Venemoit seems to be a valid upgrade path in maybe half a year or a full year from now (or sooner)12:30
Venemohm, I want the facebook app to completely ignore the messages from games12:33
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Termanalardman, morning12:37
lardmanhi Termana12:37
lardmanany news on a newer flash image for the device? I imagine there's no desire for us to file bugs?12:38
Termanalardman, I don't think they want bugs filed especially considering the age of the image and bugs already fixed.12:39
lardmanyep, that's what I assumed12:40
achipaVenemo: a kingdom for a facebook app that can ignore games !12:41
* lardman 's attempts to compile mBarcode over the weekend were stymied by a lack of internet12:42
* lardman unpacks laptop to do some building here12:42
Venemoachipa, it could work with a black list. if the message contains "via FarmVille" or sth, it simply ignores it.12:43
Venemoachipa, btw, have you managed to run the game?12:43
Venemoyeah lardman, I'm also interested in a new image12:44
fralsachipa: get facebook to implement api for filtering them out and np ill hack it in12:46
fralsachipa: anything ignored on should be ignored in app as well fwiw12:46
frals... except when facebook api takes a shit on itself12:46
Venemofrals, you can hack stuff in?12:49
Venemowell honestly12:49
Venemo90% of the stuff what the facebook client on N950 shows me are not visible at all on facebook.com12:50
Venemobut you could start by filtering by "via ..."12:52
fralsVenemo: facebook app on n950 shows whatever "most recent" is showing on facebook.com12:55
fralsor should, otherwise facebook api is fucked :p12:55
fralsVenemo: and what about the people who *want* to see all farmville posts? ;-)12:56
Venemofrals, nope12:56
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Venemofrals, there is a "friend" of mine who plays a game called FrontierVille. in N950 I see all the crappy messages related to it, while in I don't see any of it12:57
Venemofrals, nor in "most recent"12:57
fralsVenemo: then its a bug in facebook.coms API :(12:58
lardmanIs there a twitter app?12:58
lardmanJust that I don't see it in the accounts page, but I saw it mentioned elsewhere iirc12:59
fralsthe solution i suggest is get better friends, thats what i told the manager complaining about the same thing ;-)12:59
fralslardman: afaik later versions should have it13:00
lardmanbut not ours?13:00
lardmanif so np, just wanted to check I'd not missed it13:00
fralslardman: no, dont think so13:00
lardmanthe only other usability issue is the lack of notifications that you've missed something via the LED13:01
Venemofrals, can't you just add an option so that we can manually filter what we see on N950?13:01
Venemofrals, also, a welcome feature of the Facebook client on N950 would be a blacklist or whitelist13:01
fralsVenemo: too big of a feature to sneak in at this point im afraid ;)13:02
Venemoso that I could choose whose stuff I don't wanna see13:02
fralsand for blacklist you have facebook.com13:02
Venemowell I do wanna see them on facebook.com13:02
Venemojust not on my phone13:02
* lardman tried out N95 headset, works nicely, glad I didn't get rid of it13:03
mgedmin1st time I launched the Calendar app on Harmattan, it suggested I set up a sync13:04
mgedminI said "no", thinking "later"13:04
mgedminnow I've no clue how to do that13:04
fralsmgedmin: accounts13:05
alteregoGo to settings and then go to sync13:05
mgedminsettings of what?13:06
alterego"Sync and Backup" is what I used ..13:06
mgedmindo I add a CalDAV account?13:06
mgedminI tried looking in Sync/Backup, it asked me to add devices13:06
fralsmgedmin: depends what accounts calendar you want, i suppose :)13:06
mgedminI was thinking "google calendar"13:06
fralsmgedmin: in that case caldav usually13:06
alteregoOh right, yeah, accounts is probably it then ;)13:07
alteregoI thought you meant import from a device, (I should read more) :P13:07
mgedminwell, I suppose I wanted to see what options it would offer me, really13:07
mgedminnow I think I've a grasp of the principles -- accounts for online calentars, sync for device calendars13:08
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Venemofrals, can I ask you something?13:24
fralsVenemo: cant promise ill answer ;p13:24
Venemofrals, could you please point your colleague that works on the home screens to this?
fralsVenemo: its locked to portrait for a reason i would assume13:26
Venemofrals, indeed, and many of us would very much like that "reason" (ie. this bug) to be fixed13:27
djszapiCould someone build a package today for the Harmattan target on the C-OBS site ?13:27
lcukdjszapi, obs is on the wonk this morning as you noticed, people are fixing it13:28
fralsVenemo: i would be very surprised if its locked because of that bug and not because of some headhoncho decided it13:28
lcuk(your earlier PM)13:28
Venemofrals, honestly, locking these to portrait may be a good design decision for a keyboardless phone (N9), but it's definitely an inconvenience for a keyboarded device (N950)13:28
djszapilcuk: actually it works for me compared to yesterday apart from the building part.13:28
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fralsVenemo: and enduser device is keyboard less, guess where resources will be put ;)13:28
lcukso it is ONBS (Open Suse Not Building Service)!13:28
lcukdjszapi, not building is like a toaster without bread13:28
Venemofrals, the "lock" can be fixed by editing the css file, but we (the community) can't fix this bug since the package is closed13:29
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Venemofrals, to me, the fix sounds as trivial as calling a redraw() on the onOrientationChanged()13:29
djszapilcuk: I am happy I could upload my files, actually. That is also a very good progress.13:30
fralsVenemo: do you think the people who engineered the homescreen dont know how to code? :))13:30
lcukthen the guys will get the building up and running shortly13:30
Venemofrals, I said no such thing, no offense meant13:30
hiemanshustill no clue about my N950 :/13:30
Venemofrals, apparently, the visual glitch disappears when I go away from this homescreen and then go back to it (either by opening an app and swiping away, or just swiping to another homescreen and back)... so adding a redraw should fix it.13:31
fralsVenemo: i want everything to be open sourced as much as the next guy and i want it to work properly on my n950 as well, but i think most of the easyfixes have been made and the rest is a resource issue AFAIK (note:: im a lowely engineer who know nothing about why decisions are made outside the decisions i make)13:31
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Venemofrals, I understand that, but maybe the meegotouch-home engineer could add this few lines of fix to his code without making the decision makers angry13:33
lcukVenemo, :) sigh if only.  lets suppose he did this patch (which had no bug number to attach it against) caused a further complication13:34
fralsVenemo: what lcuk said :)13:35
lcukand raised further bugs (not saying in this example it would)13:35
fralsor maybe this extra redraw would cause the power consumption to go above the threshhold or anything else, things are not as trivial as they seem always ;)13:35
Venemoadding a redraw() will not cause further complication13:35
Venemobecause it will be triggered in landscape only13:35
lcukVenemo, adding ANY line of code can cause issue13:36
Venemowhich is disabled by default... so the normal users won't see a difference13:36
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lcukVenemo, on saturday13:36
lcuksomebody offered you a packaging patch13:36
lcukif you accepted that patch and there was also a couple of lines of code in the actual app included13:37
lcukwould you accept the same patch as easily?13:37
VenemoI would review it and decide accordingly13:37
lcuk"Patch #1, fixing debian packaging"   Also sets overclocking bits (single line to do it)13:37
lcuki am trying to let you see that "trivial" patches which seem obvious externally can have issue13:38
Venemosomeone offered me a patch for something that was already fixed a long ago. I directly asked if the patch modified anything in the app itself and the answer was no. should it have contained fixes for the app, I would have reviewed them and acted accordingly13:38
lcukand there are real reasons to not just accept everything13:39
lcukVenemo, that is like the nokia builds13:39
Venemohowever, if the fix is so trivial, it wouldn't take any long for me to accept it13:39
fralsVenemo: what if i looked in to the code and it already had a redraw() in the right place?13:39
lcukfrals, is the n8 using oled screen?13:40
Venemofrals, in that case, this is not an easyfix13:40
fralslcuk: dunno what it has, some fancy stuff with lowreso at least13:40
fralsVenemo: not saying it has, but chances are it does ;)13:41
Venemolcuk, -> General -> Display Technology -> AMOLED13:42
Venemofrals, in that case, QTimer::singleShot(500, this, redraw())13:42
Venemookay, I'm joking now.13:43
lardmananyone know off hand whether we need any fpu flags?13:45
lcukfrals, lowreso?13:45
fralslcuk: low resolution*13:45
lcukfrals, resolution invariant ui13:45
Stskeepslardman: fpu=neon, mfloat-abi=hard13:45
lardmanthanks Stskeeps13:45
lardmanalso, is there a maemo-version equivalent?13:46
lardmanactually I should be able to find out with some apt-cache search(ing)13:46
fralslcuk: sure, but its still not as pretty as a high resolution screen :D13:47
Venemofrals, so anyway, all I'm asking is that you ask the person responsible about this bug and if his answer is that he knows about it and it's hard to fix, then I'll be content knowing that it's hard to fix. however if it turns out to be an easyfix, it might as well get fixed.13:47
fralsVenemo: if i can find the person who works on it ill pass it along, but i dont think i have any idea who actually does tbh13:47
lcukfrals, oh for sure, 1024*600 is nice on my meego ideapad :P13:48
fralsbut if you find any problem in PIM stuff i know the pople ;)13:48
Venemofrals, maybe the commit log tells it?13:48
fralslcuk: 854x480 is fine on a phone ;-)13:48
lcukVenemo, file a bug13:48
lcukfrals, ++++++++++++13:48
DocScrutinizerVenemo: my next question is: "where do I find the address to send back this aegis coffin?"13:48
fralsVenemo: would have to dig out the repo url first13:49
fralsVenemo: but ill drop the link somewhere it has some visibility at least13:49
Venemolcuk, it has been officially stated by Quim that landscape (and X-Fade's trick to trigger it) is not supported. thus I know definitely what the outcome would be if I filed a bug13:49
Venemofrals, thank you very much13:49
VenemoDocScrutinizer, srsly?13:49
lcukfile it anyway13:49
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Venemolcuk, ok, where?13:49
lcukVenemo, then at some point it can be reevaluated13:49
lcukon the nokia bugtracker13:50
Venemolcuk, link please?13:50
lcukfrals, do you have the link so venemo can put all the info available into it13:50
fralsno clue tbh13:50
DocScrutinizerVenemo: you'l see13:50
fralsi think its hidden behind the launchpad login at
fralsand since i dont have acc i cant even see the bugs there13:50
Venemo ?13:51
lcuk 1.2 Harmattan13:51
Venemolcuk, there is no "component" that fits this bug.13:51
lcukthat way a set of low hanging fruit might one day encounter it and it could be officially cured13:52
Venemoit obviously doesn't belong in either category13:52
lcukput it in device then13:52
lardmanStskeeps: what's the mcpu flag?13:52
lcukhi lardman \o13:52
Stskeepslardman: cortex-a8 prolly13:52
lardmanhi lcuk13:52
lardmanStskeeps: cool, thanks13:52
fralsVenemo: ive dropped the link and asked around, ill see if someone happens with it13:56
Venemothank you frals13:57
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Venemolcuk, behold
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djszapic-obs is building again !! :)14:24
Venemodjszapi :)14:26
xerxes2how do i make a file to run from /usr/bin?14:35
djszapisorry ?14:35
xerxes2some extra tricks seems to be needed14:37
djszapiWhat are you trying to do ?14:38
xerxes2just copy the file to /usr/bin does not seem to work14:39
djszapixerxes2: you would like to put your binary there without packaging or what do you mean ?14:39
xerxes2just for testing14:39
djszapixerxes2: package it14:39
xerxes2will do14:39
djszapior run the relevant aegis command14:40
xerxes2so you can't just copy a file to /usr/bin?14:40
xerxes2run it with python first works just fine14:40
xerxes2python /usr/bin/panucci14:40
Venemoyou can, if you set the necessary stuff with Aegis14:40
xerxes2like that14:40
xerxes2what is aegis?14:41
VenemoAegis is the security framework on Harmattan14:41
djszapiThe name of the Sec. FW.14:41
xerxes2that was what i was looking for :)14:41
djszapiAegis was the shield of Zeus iirc :)14:41
VenemoI'll be back later14:45
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: "find . -name liblzma-dev*" ?14:46
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: thanks for your answers regarding aegis14:48
djszapinp :) How about *lzma*dev*14:49
djszapi*xz*dev* or something... kdelibs requires it as an optional dependency.14:49
DocScrutinizerI'll wait a few weeks if doc situation, or R&D cert situation, or maybe community based knowledge situation, will get better.14:49
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djszapiI think it would already make sense to start editing an aegis community faq or so.14:50
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: please just send me complete find lines, without " " for c&p :-)14:50
djszapik =)14:51
DocScrutinizerfind . -name *lzma*dev*  NULL14:52
djszapiright, needs packaging then... :)14:54
khertanAegis is also an anti matter experiment in CERN15:12
Stskeepsi'm sure they're connected15:13
khertanAnd aegis is Probably a shield ... not sure ... as it s described as a weapon too15:14
mgedminit was a famous shield, but I think it belonged to Athena rather than Zeus15:14
lardmanisn't aegis a missile too15:15
mgedminquick! to the wikipediamobile!15:15
lardmanthought I'd heard it somewhere15:15
khertanok athena's legend say it s a shield ...15:16
djszapiDocScrutinizer: I asked the guys about the search engine here: They answered, they are on it then now.15:22
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: so that means you won't need a direct interface to an auxiliary community driven search facility anymore?15:27
djszapiI guess c-obs and this will be the dominant. I am not sure.15:28
Venemomgedmin, ping15:30
lardmaninteresting maemo named packages listed there15:31
Venemomgedmin, are you the one who told me that he knew how to remap the hw keyboard?15:31
djszapilardman: since Harmattant is maemo ?15:31
mgedmincould be...15:31
mgedminexcept I didn't remap the hardware keyboard15:32
Venemomgedmin, so, could you tell me how to?15:32
lardmandjszapi: I thought it was being sold as meego?15:32
mgedminI adjusted the sym+letter combinations15:32
Venemomgedmin, that is what I wanna do15:32
Venemomgedmin, I want to assign some Fn combinations15:32
mgedminsym+letter == very special case15:32
mgedminyou keep pressing it, maliit keeps cycling over accented characters15:32
Venemomgedmin, ah, you talking about that thingy which pops up when I press SYM? or you're talking about grey arrow (fn key)?15:32
djszapilardman: We started it as maemo. I am not sure about how the managers sell it. Not that I care. Different kernel, packaging system, etc.15:32
mgedminI'm talking about the SYM key that you hold down while repeatedly pressing letters to input various accents15:33
mgedminon a n950 hardware keyboard15:33
Venemolardman, Harmattan is Maemo 6, but it shares a lot of components (especially middleware) with MeeGo15:33
mgedminif you want to make fn+key do something fancy, you'll need to deal with XKB rather than Maliit15:33
fralsoh, you can cycle thru accents with sym key? need to try that :D15:34
mgedmindon't remember the exact path15:34
Venemomgedmin, I tried that, but it didn't exactly work15:34
mgedminfrals, doesn't work for English (UK) because of a silly language code mismatch in an XML file15:34
lardmandjszapi, Venemo: any chance of a repo then to hold Extras-*? ;)15:35
Venemomgedmin, if you could teach me your SYM trick, I'd be grateful for that too15:36
djszapilardman: obs :)15:36
mgedminbecome root, cd /usr/share/meegotouch/virtual-keyboard/layouts, edit the .xml files in there15:36
djszapilardman: there are already app and app-testing repositories for this purpose.15:36
mgedminhwkbcharloops.xml defines SYM+letter accent loops15:36
Venemomgedmin, where is that file?15:37
lardmanso sb to do development, then upload to obs like the maemo autobuilder?15:37
mgedminVenemo, <mgedmin> become root, cd /usr/share/meegotouch/virtual-keyboard/layouts, edit the .xml files in there15:37
Venemoah, thank you15:37
mgedminI soooo need Harmattan Extras with some essential tools (like vim)15:37
Venemodo I need any special actions to apply the changes?15:37
fralsmgedmin: cheers15:37
mgedminVenemo, yes!15:37
djszapilardman: obs is not any different regarding to the targets. You can use either the webinterface, as I do, or the "osc" tool.15:38
mgedmin/sbin/initctl restart xsession/meego-im-uiserver15:38
Venemomgedmin, thank you15:38
Venemomgedmin, also, you're sayin it doesn't work with en-GB?15:38
mgedminI'm saying the code is "en", not "en_GB"15:38
mgedminhwkbcharloops is defined by the user interface language, btw15:39
mgedminnot your selected virtual keyboard input method15:39
Venemomgedmin, there is no "en.xml", just "en_gb.xml" and "en_gb_default.xml"15:39
mgedminthose are virtual keyboard definition files15:39
mgedminI was talking about device language15:39
mgedminuse gconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language15:40
Venemook, device language is English (United Kingdom), so which XML file do I edit?15:40
mgedminto see the UI language code15:40
mgedminfor the hardware keyboard?15:40
mgedmin<mgedmin> hwkbcharloops.xml defines SYM+letter accent loops15:40
mgedminthere's also hwsymbols_common for the virtual keyboard panel you get when you press and release SYM with the hardware keyboard open15:41
Venemo'gconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language' = en15:41
mgedminand for regular virtual keyboard there's a bunch of $language_code.xml15:41
mgedminit's nice that you can just add a new xx.xml and it'll become selectable in the text input settings15:42
mgedmin(after you restart meego-im-uiserver like I said above)15:42
Venemomgedmin, must the characters be &#x1234; format or can I just use plain UTF8 characters there?15:43
mgedminI used plain UTF-8 as you can see in the pastie I mentioned earlier15:44
mgedminthe nice thing about XML is that it has well-defined rules about dealing with Unicode15:44
mgedminand defaults to UTF-815:44
mgedminif I were to submit a patch upstream, I'd probably convert those into &#x...; to avoid mishaps15:44
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Venemonice, this is much better15:46
Venemomgedmin, thank you very much :)15:52
Venemomgedmin, not exactly what I was looking for, but works nevertheless15:52
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mgedminfor what you were looking for try looking in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/15:54
VenemoI tried editing /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rm-68015:54
Venemobut it didn't work as expected15:54
Venemoanway, now I can actually use the hw kbd.15:56
rm_youGeneralAntilles: arrived this morning at 7:2515:56
mgedminwell, XKB is weird15:56
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: find . -name automoc15:57
mgedminwithout knowing what you edited and what you expected it's hard to say anything15:57
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: NULL15:57
Venemomgedmin, I used to add this to the end of the rx-51 file on the N90015:58
Venemomgedmin, I changed rx-51 to rm-680 and tried to add it to the end of the rm-680 file15:59
Venemomgedmin, then I used 'setxkbmap hu' as root and I got a totally different layout15:59
mgedminyeah, the hardware key layout is probably totally different15:59
VenemoI mean, I got a totally different layout from what I wanted.16:00
tommaVenemo, there are already defined buttons for fn+left/right/up/down16:00
Venemotomma, what are they?16:00
mgedminI mean those <AB02> in the xkb file are physical key positions16:00
tommahome end pgup pgdown16:00
tommai think16:00
mgedminand they're probably totally different on a n950 than on a n90016:00
mgedminfor one, 4 rows instead of 316:00
mgedminI wouldn't expect a n900 keymap to work well on a n95016:01
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Venemomgedmin, not just that my modifications didn't work, but they triggered a totally different behavior of the keys. e.g the *ALL* the symbols changed (even which are not in this file) etc.16:01
mgedmin    include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)"16:01
Venemo[14:59] <Venemo> mgedmin, I changed rx-51 to rm-680 and tried to add it to the end of the rm-680 file16:01
mgedminah, hm, interesting16:02
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Venemoso I added it as include "nokia_vndr/rm-680(english_base)"16:02
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mgedminhm hm hm hm16:02
mgedminoh, did you notice the comments in that file?16:02
mgedmin/ setxkbmap -model nokiarm680 -layout us16:02
mgedminmaybe just 'setxkbmap XX' is going to load the wrong file?16:03
VenemoI didn't add the -model parameter16:03
Venemothat is correct16:03
djszapirZr: ping16:03
mgedminand I see there already exists a "hu" section16:03
mgedminhow does XKB handle two sections with the same name?  I dunno16:03
Venemothey planned to release it to Hungary before it was scrapped?16:04
Venemovery interesting finding16:04
Venemowell anyway, SYM will be good enough for now16:04
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djszapic-obs seems to be down again here :o16:09
djszapiauthentication failed on c-obs :)16:15
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infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.16:21
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cpscottiok fellas, anyone started a wiki page on " how to deal with aegis"  or at least is there a walkthrough to run a damn binaries?16:34
cpscotti( I can run aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec but still .. nothing..)16:36
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lcuksupposing bug 20099 occured on harmattan, I gather with aegis I would not be able to do the tweaking that I tried there16:38
MeeGoBotBug nor, High, ---, marko.saukko, NEW, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." .16:38
lardmananyone know how to differentiate between Fremantle and Harmattan in a Qt .pro file? (e.g. to alter the Qt "includes")16:40
thplardman: linux-g++-maemo5 or something like that is the target for fremantle16:42
lardmanas opposed to unix {} ?16:43
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rm_workGeneralAntilles / GAN900 : you ever respond? :P i drove to work16:46
cpscottilcuk, thanks.. the prob is.. i tried that.. even rebooted as someone suggested here.. but nothing so far.. any clues? or am I really doing something wrong16:47
cpscottilcuk, one thing not mentioned there: I can't even add a +x to my binary..16:49
lcukcpscotti, i wonder if a workaround would be to create uber simple package file to bless your binary16:50
lcuki haven't looked too deeply beyond installing package and seeing app running16:50
cpscottilcuk, yeh.. maybe that`s just it..16:51
cpscotti(until further notice .. :) )16:52
khertanpffff which lose of time this qt quick component16:55
khertanclearly documentation is missing16:55
lardmanany thoughts for a replacement for qmaemo5informationbox ?16:57
lardmanfor debugging purposes rather than keeping to the UI guidelines16:57
khertanlardman, this is the yellow box that appear in the center of screen ?16:58
lardmankhertan: yes, though I think it's the bar at the top actually16:58
lardmanbut that's probably the same fn call16:58
rm_workso anyone fix the homescreen rotation yet? :P16:58
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khertanlardman, let me verify but i found something similar in qml component16:59
lardmanthanks khertan16:59
* lardman was trying to avoid QML for the time being16:59
lardmanbut I guess I'll need to make the jump sooner rather than later16:59
khertanlardman :
lardmanthanks khertan17:01
khertanit s nammed info banner in the second qmlcompo.... application there is example in your n95017:01
lardmanany good docs available yet talking about porting from a C++ app to a QML one?17:02
khertanthe doc is mark as symbian but it s the same in most case for harmattan17:02
khertanlardman, qml clearly miss documentation17:02
lardmanhmm, not ideal17:02
lardmanwholesale re-writes required for anything with a vaguely complex ui then I guess17:03
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khertanlardman, everything need rewrite in qml17:09
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khertanthis is what nokia call inovation and future17:09
khertanand it s marvelous, you can import specifics api for each platforms ... it s the future17:10
khertanand on the other side all android dev call that fragmentation :)17:10
lardmanSo do we see much point in re-writing things to use QML?17:22
lardmanI understand the arguments for it re multi-platform and quick changes to uis17:22
lardmanbut if you only support one platform....17:22
rm_workso, no luck on migrating conversations yet?17:25
rm_workmaybe i'll look at that, i'd already been playing with the conversations sqlite DB in maemo517:25
rm_workwould people find a conversations transfer script useful?17:26
* khertan didn't care :)17:26
* khertan want a fully working QWidget theme and support for qwidget in qt futur roadmap17:27
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fiferboylardman: Qt Components should eliminate entire UI rewrites, although there may still be tweaking for different platforms/resolutions/UI paradigms17:29
lardmanWell the components perhaps, but you still need to rewrite the javascript afaiu?17:29
fiferboyYou can have the QML interface connect to your C++ backend, and the backend can be the same for every platform (AFAICT)17:30
lardmanyeah I get that bit17:30
khertan<fiferboy> lardman: Qt Components should eliminate entire UI rewrites, <<< mouhahaha17:31
lardmanit's whether it's worth re-writing the backend, or at least plumbing it for Qt Component use if it's only for one platform?17:31
fiferboylardman: My app has a very simple QML frontend and a very simple C++ backend17:32
fiferboyThe interaction between the two is simple enough to not be a burden17:32
lardmanin the case of mBarcode it probably is as then other people could use the decoder easily, but just as a general question17:32
lardmans/is/is worth rewriting17:32
lardmanbut it will also be a pita17:33
rm_worklardman: ooo mBarcode17:33
rm_workI am still interested in making a useful UI for that17:33
rm_workas in like, uses a UPC backend17:33
fiferboylardman: If you are only targetting Harmattan with an application then I guess it wouldn't pay to abstract the interface17:33
rm_worklike I did for the old one17:33
lardmanwell backend plugins are easy to write17:33
lardmanand will remain the same17:33
lardmanthough will need to do some tweaking to get the ical/vcard stuff working perhaps17:34
lardmanah well, it will give me something to do this evening now that I've got all the deps downloaded17:34
lardmanjust need to remove/replace the maemo5-isations so I can check it runs, then move onto componentising it17:35
fiferboylardman: Where would the fun be if we could just go on using the same familiar technologies all the time? :)17:35
lardmanfiferboy: indeed, why stand on the shoulders of anyone when one can go back to first principles every time ;)17:35
fiferboylardman: Are you trying to run a QWidget based application in Harmattan?17:36
lardmanI was hoping to17:37
lardmanat least to check that the camera subsystem is working, etc17:37
fiferboylardman: I have had some success with that (in scratchbox), but as you say the Maemo5 stuff has to go17:38
fiferboyscratchbox was a bit weird about theming a few things, like combo boxes, so it is hard to tell if there is a complete QWidget theme17:38
lardmanoh, I've never bothered running anything with a gui in sb, I guess I'll just try on-device as usual17:39
fiferboyThat is probably a good idea17:40
fiferboySometimes it is hard to tell if there is something wrong with the GUI or something wrong with scratchbox :)17:40
* lardman heads off to do some coding17:41
lardmancatch you all tomorrow17:41
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rm_workin the QML WIdgets app17:43
rm_workin !!Slider17:43
rm_workthere is a brightness slider :P17:43
fiferboyrm_work: Where is your shipment now?17:44
rm_workfiferboy: in my hand17:44
rm_workdelivered 7:25am17:44
rm_workjust unboxed about an hour ago17:44
* MohammadAG sighs and looks at New order17:44
rm_workam at work... but have just been playing with it <_<17:44
rm_workthinking my first task (before porting ABL) may be to make a conversations export/import script17:45
rm_worksince it appears that isn't done yet (not on wiki at least)17:45
rm_workbecause i already had experience with the conversation DB on n90017:45
fiferboyrm_work: Might not be a bad idea to see if that is going to be in the final firmware17:47
fiferboyNot sure who you could ask, though17:47
rm_workwell for now i'd like to have them17:48
rm_worki'm not thinking a real app yet17:48
rm_workjust a script17:48
rm_workfor devs17:48
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GeneralAntillesrm_work, no, out for delivery, though.17:51
rm_workGeneralAntilles: cool, the couriers are super fast once they get it tho17:51
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alteregorm_work: I was going to do that actually :P17:52
GeneralAntillesWent on the truck at 8:1317:52
GeneralAntilles10:52 now17:52
alteregoBut you can, I've got a lot on my plate already :D17:52
rm_workmine went on truck 7:05, got to my door at 7:2517:52
rm_workalterego: lol k17:52
GeneralAntillesYou're at the start of the route, then.17:52
rm_worki guess17:52
alteregorm_work: wtf? Do you live next to Nokia warehouse? :P17:52
lcukhe lives in a DHL chipping crate17:53
rm_worklol alterego no, since it took 4 days to get from nokia to my city :P17:53
alteregoOh, hah17:53
lcukshipping even :P17:53
alteregoMine got shipped at about 1pm last wednesday, arrived thursday at 11am17:53
rm_workgot to the UK quick, so if I lived in lcuk's basement, I'd have had it friday :P17:53
rm_workshipped around 1pm last thursday, got here this monring17:54
JaffaHarmattan doesn't seem to like it when you `dpkg --force-all' things. My Firefox has gone to a red exclamation mark which says "this application is no longer usable; please reinstall"17:54
rm_workwow this keyboard is going to take some getting used to17:56
lcukJaffa, somewhat understandable17:56
lcukif you are into updating thingamibobs, the meego bug 9205 could do with some tlc17:57
MeeGoBotBug enh, High, 1.1.0, anas.nashif, NEW, Cannot Update from 1.0 to 1.1, from 1.1 to 1.217:57
rm_workhow the heck do i get the sim holder out18:01
rm_workmy fingernails are failing me18:01
rm_workis there a trick?18:01
tommause knife18:01
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mgedminI managed with fingernails and a wooden toothpick18:05
mgedmin(the latter ended up a bit bent)18:05
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alteregoI used a knife the first time, normal blunt edged one as I was being paranoid.18:06
djszapiCan we get access from X-Fade to the Harmattan repository which is shared by the community I guess ? I would have 30 packages to upload and I think there are quite a few other people who would also like to share the packages in order to avoid the duplications.18:06
alteregoIt was exactly clear how it was supposed to come out :D18:06
alteregoAnd there's no indicator of how the sim should go in, so I had to consult the quick start guide.18:06
alteregoOh actually, there is an indicator on the rubber cover ..18:07
mgedminI guessed, and guessed right18:07
mgedminI assume from its shape the SIM would refuse to go in in any other orientation18:07
mgedminand there's that nice clicky sound when the latch catches18:08
alteregoNot really, just doesn't go all the way in.18:08
mgedminthat's what I meant18:08
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VenemoN950's camera UI is blazing fast18:30
Venemoalthough it can't cope with bright daylight, the sky always looks burned18:30
MohammadAGBurning platform effects ftw18:31
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VenemoMohammadAG ?18:36
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tommaanyone know what did i broke... dpkg says: status database area is locked by another process, application manager tells me "No software installations"18:39
Venemodoes a reboot help it?18:40
tommait could be some lock file was left after i tried to refresh updates with application manager...18:41
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MohammadAGtomma, rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock may help18:42
tommadidn't help18:44
tommathere are locks in so many places...18:44
tommaoh wait... dpkg worked...  but still18:46
tomma"no software installations" in application manager18:46
alteregoIt's annoying I can't marl my ddp as complete from the device.18:51
Venemoalterego, 'marl' ?18:52
Venemoalterego, aah, mark18:52
Venemoyeah, it can't do HTTPS so you can't login to meego.com18:52
Scifigwait, harmattan browser can't do HTTPS?18:55
fluxI guess he means the app manager?18:56
Scifigoh ok18:56
fluxvenemo, tried using .netrc? not sure where to place it though..18:56
fluxor is it a certificate issue?18:56
GAN900It's here.18:56
ScifigGAN900 - Congrats. My is still on the way from LA18:57
Venemoflux, go to and see18:57
Venemoflux, it is some handshake issue18:57
fiferboyMine got delivered to my house, but alas I am at work19:02
VenemoGAN900, congrats19:02
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Venemoachipa, I think I found a bug19:16
Venemoachipa, could you tell me that it's not a bug, just my lack of knowledge?19:16
GAN900Man, the browser is so shit.19:17
Venemoachipa, I have hooked my own eventhandler to the onOrientationChangeStarted of my PageStackWindow, and it doesn't get triggered when the app is rotated while in the "Open applications" homescreen19:18
VenemoGAN900, what about it?19:18
GeneralAntillesVenemo, insta-crash on half the pages I've tried to load so far.19:19
VenemoGeneralAntilles, ah...19:19
Venemoyeah, it's kinda beta19:19
Venemoplus it can't do HTTPS19:19
GeneralAntillesThe lack of landscape in most stuff is incredibly irritating when the device has a keyboard.19:20
VenemoGeneralAntilles, I found it delighting that at least someone agrees with me :)19:20
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mgedmincan the n950 media player play internet radio?19:25
Venemomgedmin, I think not19:27
VenemoGeneralAntilles, btw, with some trickery you can trigger landscape mode in the home screens19:28
GeneralAntillesCan't figure out how to get the Qt SDK to use the device as its target19:28
GeneralAntillesEven though I set up the device with the SDK.19:28
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VenemoGeneralAntilles, go to Projects, then Harmattan, then in the Run step, select your device19:28
VenemoGeneralAntilles, also, go to Tools/Options/Maemo and mark your device the default for Harmattan projects19:29
GeneralAntillesNot in the list.19:29
GeneralAntillesAlready did that.19:29
javispedroGeneralAntilles, hah, congrats19:29
VenemoGeneralAntilles, Projects/Harmattan/Run/Deploy to device19:29
javispedroGeneralAntilles, so, impressed by tearfree scrolling? :)19:29
javispedroor has nokia managed to kill your optimism (again)? ;)19:30
GeneralAntillesThe scrolling is nice.19:30
GeneralAntillesBut damn this w22 firmware is shit.19:30
GeneralAntillesUntranslated strings all over the place.19:30
javispedrothe latest "feature" I'm experience is that after a few hours of uptime thumbnails tend to disappear in task switcher19:31
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GeneralAntillesVenemo, ah, genius. Thanks.19:32
GeneralAntillesI recall doing that for Fremantle now.19:32
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VenemoGeneralAntilles, that is what I told :P19:33
VenemoGeneralAntilles, you're welcome :)19:33
GeneralAntillesMoments in Competence this morning.19:33
griVenemo: Did you manage to get the qml designer in windows working with qt-components? (I don't think it's possible)19:48
Venemogri, I don't use the designer19:51
Venemogri, you should be fine with the source editor though19:53
ScifigGeneralAntilles, Are you on AT&T?19:53
GAN900Definitely going to be carrying two devices for the the time being19:57
VenemoGAN900, we should get Nokia to release a new image for us...19:57
ScifigGeneralAntilles, Is AT&T 3G working fine with N950?19:58
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GeneralAntillesScifig, I assume so, haven't left the house yet, though.19:59
* javispedro waits for GeneralAntilles' "sucks or not" n950 review19:59
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: press ctrl-shift-L for better translations ;-)19:59
Venemothe hinge seems to be slightly weaker than the N97's or E7's19:59
* Scifig is waiting for the DHL guy to knock on the door19:59
GeneralAntillesI hate the keyboard right now.20:00
* javispedro concurs20:00
GeneralAntillesBut I hated the N900 keyboard at first, too, so hope it gets better.20:00
VenemoDocScrutinizer, OH NOO... Hungarian translations are crappier than I expected...20:00
VenemoGeneralAntilles, you'll get used to it in a week20:00
javispedrospaniards are average, there's missing text all over the place but nothing awful.20:01
VenemoGeneralAntilles, after you apply the trick to get the homescreens into landscape, it's not that bad20:01
DocScrutinizershift+ctrl+B also makes for a cute effect ;-)20:01
VenemoDocScrutinizer, what? what's this green stuff?20:02
DocScrutinizershift+ctrl+S might actually be useful20:02
DocScrutinizershift+ctrl+M maybe too20:03
piggzwhat the latest n950 news today??20:04
DocScrutinizerin settings s+c+M makes a nice gtaphical effect ;-D20:04
GeneralAntillesI guess DNLA music doesn't work?20:05
VenemoGeneralAntilles, it should20:06
VenemoGeneralAntilles, but I haven't had the chance to test20:06
VenemoDocScrutinizer, seems to be only working with MTF apps20:07
DocScrutinizeralas ALL the kbd shortcuts seem to work only with MTF apps. Maybe except Fn+BS and Ctrl+Q20:08
Venemoafter a few days of usage, I must say that the hinge is definitely not the strong point of the device20:09
Venemoit still works great, but it wobbles a little bit when the device is closed20:10
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Venemothis device was definitely not designed for opening the keyboard as many times as I open it... but I will be content if it remains in its current state for a few months :)20:10
DocScrutinizerthis hinge definitley won't survivie any proper droptest - the less when opened20:11
djszapi_Hi! Does anybody have idea about an "rpc" timeout on c-obs (Harmattan target). It sometimes happens with innocent packages, and at some point it starts working without any change in the repository.20:11
DocScrutinizerwhat HAHA20:11
djszapi_For instance:
griThe keyboard is also not designed for using in the dark since it lacks backlight :(20:11
DocScrutinizerdroptests are a normal part of PV evaluation20:11
DocScrutinizerand even part of device property specs20:11
Venemoso maybe there is some truth in the rumor that the hinge is why they're not selling it?20:11
GeneralAntillesgri, has a backlight here.20:12
DocScrutinizergri: WUT?20:12
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grihmm, maybe mine is not working20:12
Venemowhen half opened and you look at it from the back side, you can actually see that only a few centimetres of plastic is holding it together.20:12
DocScrutinizerVenemo: see my photos of hinge on OVI20:13
DocScrutinizerthat's why I took them20:13
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I see now... I'm referring to this one:
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DocScrutinizergri: mce which is controlling indicator-, kbd-backlight- et-al-LEDs, is definitely not thoroughly tested and optimized for N95020:18
DocScrutinizerOCH! the hinge bites back!20:19
DocScrutinizertekaed my finger :-P20:19
piggzwhat do do tonight.....everytrail app for maemo/meego-ce, or get spaceinvaders into obs for Jaffa ... hopefully both, time allowing20:19
VenemoDocScrutinizer, :D20:19
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DocScrutinizerspaceinvaders \o/20:23
DocScrutinizerIs there already a midnight commander on any repo?20:24
DocScrutinizertail -n 2 /etc/mce/mce-radio-states.ini20:26
griDocScrutinizer: the indicator light only works when charging for me - do you also have a light on email / sms / call notification?20:27
DocScrutinizerI got no email/sms/call20:28
DocScrutinizerbut device looks rather dead when sitting there with screen off, yeah20:28
DocScrutinizerunless charging20:28
Venemogri, nope20:28
DocScrutinizerhaha, mce.ini has >>PowerKeyShortAction=tklock-lock<< still for me powerbutton also unlocks20:30
piggzDocScrutinizer: have you not got spaceinvaders already on your n950?? according to my logs, approx half of n950 users should have it..20:31
piggzcat access_log  | grep pgz-spaceinvaders_0_3_8 | grep GET | wc -l20:31
Venemopiggz, there are no 128 N950 users yet20:31
Venemoat least not even 100 people got their devices yet from the program20:32
Stskeepsplus the ones outside it..20:32
griminus one since I haven't downloaded it20:32
piggzah well, some obviously have downloaded it and cant use i  only have 30 followers on twitter that would know about it directly, most downloads must have came from retweets20:33
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DocScrutinizergri: Venemo: well, in mce.ini there's a PatternCommunicationAndBatteryFull and a CombinationCommunicationAndBatteryFull and also a PatternCommunication, but no PatternEmail or PatternSMS or PatternIM20:44
DocScrutinizeryou'd have to use dbus-monitor to check which pattern gets requested on missed-call, SMS, mail etc, and define the proper Pattern in mce.ini20:45
VenemoDocScrutinizer, the LED is so faint anyway that I couldn't care less20:45
Venemoand non-colorful20:46
DocScrutinizerI don't plan to use this device for my everyday phone anyway, so what...20:46
griYeah, mce source looks like it's only white20:46
DocScrutinizer# Patterns used for the RM-680/RM-690 hardware;20:47
DocScrutinizer# this hardware has a single-colour LED connected to a Lysti controller20:47
DocScrutinizeraccording to mce.ini RM-680/690 are devices with several LEDs ergo with KBD, while RM-696 has a controller for a single LED20:49
Venemowut is RM-690?20:50
Venemojust another cancelled prototype thing?20:50
Venemoalso, why are the new devices not RX-*20:54
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achipamgedmin: internet radio is a go, but not via the music app. Just open a .m3u from the web or whereever and it will work fine20:57
achipaVenemo: a bug is a bug :) feel free to file20:57
rm_workis there a pandora app compiled for harmattan yet? :P20:58
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: I'd offer a compromise: you run dbus-monitor >missed-call_dbusmsgs.log, and I check the mci.ini so it will work21:11
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, do I need to run that as root?21:11
GeneralAntillesHow can it not have UPnP?21:11
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I guess the LED *could* get brighter than it's now21:11
GeneralAntillesThat's so obnoxious.21:11
DocScrutinizerVenemo: definitely not21:12
DocScrutinizerVenemo: please run a dbus-montor --system >sys.log ; and a dbus-monotor --session >sess.log21:13
DocScrutinizerboth from user21:13
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Venemook, do I need to do anything in particular while the dbus-monitor is running?21:13
DocScrutinizerpost both files for me, and I'll see what can be done21:13
Venemoeg. make myself a missed call?21:13
DocScrutinizeryes, that would help A LOT21:14
DocScrutinizeralso send a SMS, and a mail21:14
DocScrutinizerwait a minute...21:15
Venemocan't send myself an SMS (no credit on my other SIM), but I can send e-mail21:15
DocScrutinizerVenemo: do dbus-monitor --system|grep -B 1 -A 3 req_led_pattern_activate21:19
Venemomail checking is due in 2 hours, so I can't make you a missed mail right now21:19
DocScrutinizeror just21:20
Venemoor will the desired effect happen if I just use the refresh button?21:20
DocScrutinizerdbus-monitor --system|grep -B 1 -A 3 req_led_pattern21:20
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I have no clue21:21
DocScrutinizerjust run21:21
DocScrutinizerdbus-monitor --system|grep -B 1 -A 3 req_led_pattern >dbus.log21:21
DocScrutinizerfor a day or two21:21
GeneralAntillesNo IRC, no FBReader21:21
GeneralAntillesI think I'll switch the SIM back tomorrow.21:21
DocScrutinizertbh I'm more than puzzled about ANY LED for RM-69621:23
rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol21:23
DocScrutinizerAIUI N9 has *no* indicator LED21:23
VenemoDocScrutinizer, the sess-* is the dbus-monitor --session the sys-* is the dbus-monitor --system21:24
rm_workGeneralAntilles: compile xchat for the time-being, then write a good irc client for it :P21:24
rm_workGeneralAntilles: someone should be able to make xchat from fremantle work21:24
Venemoquassel is on its way21:24
Venemoxchat... well, that needs GTK too... which is... umm... :(21:25
VenemoDocScrutinizer, is it of any use?21:25
DocScrutinizerVenemo: YAHOO, *no* dbus-msg to mce about any LED pattern21:25
kimjuDocScrutinizer, the n9 could propably use its oled display for indicators without lighting full backlight as would be required on n950?21:26
VenemoDocScrutinizer, humm21:26
VenemoDocScrutinizer, maybe I didn't shut down the display for one of them? hm.21:26
DocScrutinizerso the missed-calls handler doesn't even bother to _send_ any signal21:26
DocScrutinizerkimju: exactly21:27
Venemorm_work, as for xchat: 'dpkg -l | grep gtk' is empty21:27
rm_worklol well21:28
VenemoDocScrutinizer, signal sender=:1.46 -> dest=(null destination) serial=184 path=/Call; interface=Com.Nokia.Telephony.CallUi; member=CallEnded21:28
DocScrutinizerkimju: I don't see how mce is controlling this via a NJoy aka LP5521 controller21:28
rm_workyeah would need to rebuild the UI on QT21:28
rm_workbut i'm sure there's a QT IRC that would work if compiled21:28
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Venemothere is...21:29
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I'll send you my FBReader compile once I package up the missing libraries21:30
DocScrutinizerVenemo: (xchat, gtk) that's been the point where I cleared the xchat topic from my stack yesterday21:30
fiferboy*Warning* very untested21:30
kimjuhas anyone managed to get cursor key events out of the vkb?21:30
DocScrutinizerVenemo: (member=CallEnded) errr, yes? So what ?21:31
Venemoso it does send a signal, only not to MCE21:32
Venemoso... one can make a daemon that listens to this signal, checks whether the screen is off, and then just sends the necessary stuff to MCE21:34
Venemohm... if only I could run dbus-explorer on the device... :P21:34
harbaumwhat's the "grue" plugin doing?21:36
DocScrutinizerVenemo: you're right, fremantle as well doesn't see a /com/nokia/mce/request string:"PatternCallMissed" or similar signal when I test it there21:36
VenemoDocScrutinizer, are you aware of any app that has the functionality of dbus-explorer and can be compiled for N950?21:37
DocScrutinizerwhat is dbus-explorer?21:41
DocScrutinizeryou think of mdbus2?21:41
harbaumI think someone here posted a trick to detect Meego in qmake/.pro file. What was that trick?21:42
VenemoDocScrutinizer, dbus-explorer is a graphical app which lets you "browse" all the D-Bus serives and their interfaces in a tree view, and it even lets you call the specific methods21:43
achipaDocScrutinizer: AFAIK N9 has an indicator led, even a bit bigger/more prominent than the N95021:44
DocScrutinizerVenemo: check mdbus2 on m521:46
DocScrutinizermaybe you could compile it for m621:46
DocScrutinizerVenemo: iirc mdbus1 even was in python21:46
DocScrutinizershit, my N900 starts acting funny21:47
Stskeepsit's jealous21:47
Venemofunny in what way?21:47
DocScrutinizerseems the stresstest with 2h concurrent mappero and marble was too much for it21:48
Venemoare you surprised in any way?21:48
DocScrutinizerit blanks screen (black screen with full backlight) and only freshly rendered elements show up for some time, then vanish again21:49
DocScrutinizernothing in syslog ;-P21:50
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harbaumthp: ping!21:55
harbaumi am surprised: my qml app doesn't rotate ...22:00
harbaumdo i need some special magic to have my app rotate?22:01
Venemoharbaum, what kind of QML app is it?22:01
harbaum?? Just a qml app22:01
Venemodo you use the MeeGo Qt Components with it?22:01
harbaumjust my own ones22:02
Venemoin that case, you may need to take care of it yourself, and I dunno how22:02
harbaummy app can properly handle width < height if you mean that22:02
harbaumit just doesn't rotate at all22:02
fiferboyharbaum: You might have to listen for a window size change signal22:03
fiferboyThere is an orientation start/stop/about to start signal with the Qt Components22:03
Venemoand about to start doesn't work when the app rotates in the task switcher22:04
Venemohaven't tested the others22:04
fiferboyVenemo: Good to know (haven't tested on device yet)22:04
Venemofiferboy, either it's a bug in the components or I use it in a bad manner... but it rotates when the app is in the front.22:04
harbaumi can't believe it, i have rewritten my gui in qml and that is also not fully supported and i need to start from scratch once more using qt components?22:05
fiferboyVenemo: I _think_ I heard that task switcher thumbnails always use a portrait layout22:06
fiferboyVenemo: Jaffa could probably confirm22:06
Venemofiferboy, nope... at least if you enable the landscape mode for the homescreens22:07
Stskeepsor something22:07
fiferboyVenemo: Ah, maybe it is the homescreen orientation that was previously locking it22:08
Venemofiferboy, that is is22:08
DocScrutinizerVenemo: about to boot, first took a video for you :-)22:13
DocScrutinizershare to OVI is slow like geotectonics another time, well it's enormous 50MB22:13
harbaumStskeeps: Thanks, will dig into that22:14
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DocScrutinizer51Venemo: boot seems did help22:18
spenaphey, anyone using QML knows how to access the preferred system values for font sizes, colors, etc? There are some javascript files which contain that, but I don't know if I should import them directly (and how to do it)22:19
spenapin /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js, for example22:19
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51 :)22:22
grispenap: I was looking for the same thing:
gribut I always get "Can't find variable: UiConstants" when trying to use it :(22:27
spenapgri, then I don't see the problem with copying the interesting parts from their JS to mine :)22:27
griwhy copy?22:28
spenapis there a way to import a javascript library with some non-absolute path?22:28
spenapor is «import "/usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js" as NokiaUI» the right way?22:29
Venemoif you don't mind being platform specific22:29
spenapthat's the thing: I don't like that, but also copying the values doesn't look too portable22:30
ieatlintStskeeps: it's interesting that link you posted about detecting orientation change in QML..22:30
ieatlintthose instructions are severely flawed22:30
Stskeepsoh god, i didn't paste porn by accident did i22:30
ieatlintas the documentation for qt-mobility states "The orientation sensor reports the orientation of the device. As it operates below the UI level it does not report on or even know how the UI is rotated. Most importantly this means that this sensor cannot be used to detect if a device is in portrait or landscape mode."22:31
grispenap: If the cpp plugin would work, there wouldn't be a need to use the constants. Label { font: UiConstants.TitleFont } should do the trick - but it doesn't :(22:31
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ieatlintit also has a slower polling rate, and will cause delays in rotation22:31
ieatlintthe classic way to detect is to watch for resize events, and then test if w > h, which will tell you if it's landscape/portrait and also always be in line with what the phone decides the orientation is22:33
spenapgri, yeah, so javascript then22:33
grispenap: The javascript has no information about fonts etc. qt-components seems to use both22:33
spenapgri, check /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js22:34
griSo I don't understand why they have both constants "files"22:36
spenapI guess that they don't have an unified approach yet22:37
grilooks like both are barely used inside qt-components itself22:41
spenapI'm asking in qt-qml atm22:41
spenapgri, they tell me that there's no official approach at the moment..22:42
grinice, so your approach with copying is the safest one :)22:43
spenapwell, I'll be importing those files as UIConstants or the like, not copying them22:45
grispenap: Where is the path from? in scratchbox it's com/meego/UIConstants.js22:50
spenap¬¬ that's way better22:51
spenapI was wondering how to do that22:51
spenapwhere did you learn it?22:51
grihuh? I just shortened the path, in scratchbox I don't have a /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js22:52
spenapoh, well. I thought you could refer to a JS library in some short way, and that it would be automatically resolved. I don't know why you don't have it22:54
griinstead I have a /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/meego/UIConstants.js and a /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego/UIConstants.js22:57
gri(the directories' contents are equal)22:58
spenapgri, if you check with «dpkg -L qt-components», doesn't it contain this /extras directory? mine does22:59
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grispenap: I have the extras directory but it only contains a "constants.js" which is something different to "UIConstants.js" and the directory also contains only a few components like Tumbler, ListButton, CountBubble ..23:01
spenapah, then maybe I just messed it up. Both "constants" files are useful. While the UIConstants one has font sizes, margins and the like, this Constants inside extras has list sizes and colors for the main and secondary text23:03
Jaffafiferboy: Venemo: pong23:11
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fiferboyJaffa: Do you still have the problem with task manager thumbnails being portrait-only?23:19
fiferboyJaffa: Or did the landscape homescreen trick fix that23:19
VenemoJaffa, hm?23:23
fiferboyVenemo: In our talk of task switcher earlier I invoked the aid of Jaffa23:24
Venemofiferboy, aah.23:24
Jaffafiferboy: I haven't done the landscape homescreen trick just so I could test it23:28
Jaffafiferboy: Since I'm fullscreen and decided to drop the status bar, I can access "platformWindow" whether I'm Qt Components or not. So I'm no longer going to use Qt Components for Attitude23:28
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fiferboyJaffa: Ah, and the thumbnail orientation isn't an issue for raw QML programs?23:30
Jaffafiferboy: Correct23:30
javispedrofor raw X11 programs the system assumes landscape23:31
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DocScrutinizerpiggz: twitter? what's that?23:38
VenemoJaffa, hmm. what will Attitude do?23:38
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JaffaVenemo: In terms of feature or behaviour on Harmattan?23:40
JaffaVenemo: It's an orientation and (one day) compass app. Like an artifical horizon on a plane23:40
VenemoJaffa, I just don't know what it is.23:40
VenemoJaffa, aaah :)23:40
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VenemoJaffa, sounds interesting :)23:40
javispedronot used Attitude??23:40
DocScrutinizeryou are all aware that NO app should try to detect physical orientation of device to determine landscape vs portrait?23:41
javispedrobut it also has the honor of being one of the first N900 apps! ;)23:41
Jaffajavispedro: And one of the first N950 apps :-)23:41
javispedronote "also" ;)23:41
DocScrutinizerthere MUST be a system call provided by whatever middleware framework for that, where yu could plug in orientation locks etc23:41
VenemoJaffa, memory-game is also one of the first N950 apps :) wanna try? :P23:42
SpeedEvilFor some things, that's flat out wrog. Not many though.23:42
javispedroDocScrutinizer: well, not sure about that23:42
SpeedEvilFor example, AR23:42
JaffaVenemo: Sure. Is it in OBS so I can track it with apt? :-)23:43
VenemoJaffa, yours is the first, mine is only "one of the first" ;)23:43
javispedrofor a start, I'm not sure such an API existed -- the fact that apps on task view get switched to portrait is a surprise to me23:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's been at me? AR is not dealing with portrait/landscape23:43
VenemoJaffa, unfortunately I haven't a clue about OBS. some guy packaged an earlier version I think... maybe a few days ago, but that is obsolete now. I can point you to a .deb though.23:43
JaffaVenemo: That'll do23:43
JaffaVenemo: and might help23:44
Venemothx :)23:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: quite obviously a spirit level wouldn't want to bother about the virtual partrait/landscape orientation of the middleware either23:44
deimoswhy I can't set Button "width" and other qml values ? What I am doing wrong ?23:46
DocScrutinizerther has to be one central data source that provides orientation of user in relation to device, as that's the only thing that matters regarding L/P23:46
VenemoJaffa, I'll read it as soon as I'm finished with the crapwork I'm doing now (non-N950-related paid work)23:46
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you'd be surprised about how rotation works in harmattan23:47
DocScrutinizerI mean the user could even do a handstand23:47
DocScrutinizerit's absolute nonsense to unconditionally orient the screen so it points down == center of earth23:48
DocScrutinizerif a sufficient number of apps starts do do the wrong thing here (which is direct readout of accelerometer), then we end with a botch that overrides accelerometer data for a orientation lock, and with broken spirit-level apps etc23:50
DocScrutinizers/do do/to do/23:50
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: if a sufficient number of apps starts to do the wrong thing here (which is direct readout of accelerometer), then we end with a botch that overrides accelerometer data for a orientation lock, and with broken spirit-level apps etc23:50
javispedrothat's already how it is now..23:51
DocScrutinizerscreen orientation is NOT accelerometer orientation. Don't use any direct accelerometer data for screen orientation. Define one data source that clearly states it is NOT always in sync with accelerometer and only to be used for L/P23:53
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: well, bad enough. Maybe it's not too late to fix it23:55
VenemoSeems that "Memory Game" does not fit into the app grid (too long)23:56
Venemoso, I'm looking for a name for the app that fits there23:56
Venemoany ideas?23:56
DocScrutinizerit's as (sorry) idiotic a system architecture as if each app would manage its own screen brightness23:56
DocScrutinizervirtual orientation is a system domain task, definitely not an app domain task23:57
SpeedEvilBad for power too, as all of the apps won't poll at the same time the accellerometer23:57
DocScrutinizercomplete nightmare, in several regards23:58
VenemoDocScrutinizer, just FYI, that is why there is the sensor framework. so sensorfw calculates the orientation with whatever voodoo magic and it tells the apps about it if the apps ask.23:58
DocScrutinizerVenemo: yes, that's how it should be23:58
DocScrutinizerapps MUST NOT use any other means to decide whether L or P.23:59
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.23:59
GAN900They still have only one line on application names23:59

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