IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-07-17

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Noobmonk3yooo harmattan yay!01:09
lcukdjszapi, ask in here :)01:09
DocScrutinizerlcuk: is it possible to build "normal" small tools on device?01:13
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mzanettipiggz: have you found a solution for the Keyboard stuff?01:29
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lcukDocScrutinizer, idk, it should be possible to build most things?01:46
lcukperhaps the gnu  tools situation is improved01:46
lcukbut i haven't looked further01:47
* lcuk is glancing to his left atm01:47
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: sorry, was busy with updating - I just asked as I thought you said you build on device. I got no space on my PC HDD to install the SDK, that's when I wondered if the N950 "comes with" gcc and make and all...02:26
rm_youDocScrutinizer: I'm currently struggling with getting the SDK on my machine as well02:26
rm_youI'm stuck on windoze on my desktop because i need it for work-from-home02:26
rm_youi want to get a VM set up02:27
rm_youthe VM on the garage is the old one i think :/02:27
rm_youand i only have the vmware player :/02:28
* GeneralAntilles rages a bit.02:29
rm_youlol GA02:30
GeneralAntillesWaiting and waiting02:31
GeneralAntillesThis is the waiting week for me.02:31
javispedromore liek two weeks ;)02:31
GeneralAntillesWish they'd stop pretending like it's making progress so at least I could focus on something else.02:31
javispedroiirc DHL USA defines the next day by 5:00pm02:32
javispedroso if you haven't got it by 5:00pm Nokia might be entitled to have their money back =)02:32
GeneralAntillesGood for Nokia.02:33
rm_youyeah i hope they do02:36
rm_youi should email them and tell them to get their money back :P02:36
rm_youjust to prod DHL for being sucky02:36
DocScrutinizer  If *anybody* finds a way to select an entry in Search via kbd shortcut, please don't hesitate to share ;-D02:38
javispedroDocScrutinizer: how much time should I wait in the "Erasing, this may take a while." stage during flash?02:38
DocScrutinizer2 beers?02:38
DocScrutinizerI dunno, I left after 5 min02:39
javispedroI now need to Google a conversion factor between beers and seconds02:39
DocScrutinizerheard it takes 20..25min02:39
DocScrutinizeriirc the webpage says "takes 40min" and this seems about right02:40
* javispedro sighs02:41
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: at least it works... even "automatically"02:45
javispedrothose aegis gods are vengeful. seemed that I could cheat death (aka aegis selfdestruction) by doing that triple reboot thing, but of course, the wrath of aegis ALWAYS eventually falls.02:49
javispedrook, erasing took 15 min02:50
javispedroand after that, lashing takes 2 minutes02:51
javispedroand done.02:51
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: could you check if your one-click-flasher self-erased?02:59
javispedronope, it's still there02:59
DocScrutinizerweird, but I can't locate mine anymore02:59
javispedroname starts with Linux_OCF02:59
DocScrutinizerlocate Linux_OCF AYE02:59
DocScrutinizerI'm rather sure I had it ;-) and I can't find it anymore, though I'm also sure I haven't rm'd it03:01
javispedroupdatedb? ;)03:01
DocScrutinizerruns each night at 22:1503:01
DocScrutinizeranyway, did yours leave some uncompressed stuff?03:02
javispedronot in $PWD03:02
DocScrutinizeryeah, that's what I wondered03:03
DocScrutinizermaybe $TMP03:04
javispedro/tmp ;)03:05
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DocScrutinizerI bet I managed this sucker not only erased the uncompressed files but itself as well03:08
DocScrutinizershould run it again, with a while cp -la . ../keepit/; do :;done, and stop it halfway and get a lsof of it03:11
DocScrutinizeror simply nuke 2 unlink for the while thing via LD_PRELOAD03:13
javispedroI doubt it deletes itself03:13
DocScrutinizerwonder what aegis would think about such hacks03:13
javispedrowhat do you want to do? get the FIASCO?03:14
DocScrutinizerjust see what's there, get it all, yeah03:14
javispedrorun it without any N950 plugged in and look at /tmp03:14
javispedromorning, Termana.03:16
SpeedEvilI wonder if the RDA ones are different03:20
SpeedEvilI was sort-of-pondering running tar | over them03:20
javispedrocomparing dpkg -l lists would be a quick start03:20
DocScrutinizergood question03:20
javispedrothis very same aegis that forces us to package things also forces nokia to do so =)03:20
* javispedro ponders whether continuing with portmap now that i know that aegis could decide to selfdestruct say in the middle of a call03:23
DocScrutinizermeh, found it03:24
DocScrutinizernfc what I did, maybe typo03:25
DocScrutinizerfind did the trick03:25
DocScrutinizernow that I see it, locate of course also shows it ;-P03:25
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yeah, this selfdestruct thing is particularly nasty03:27
DocScrutinizeryou never know when any arbitrary app will execute a function that makes aegis go bollocks03:28
javispedrobtw another thought03:28
javispedroscreenbpp is 1603:29
DocScrutinizerdamn, this *is* a real win for user protection03:29
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'm wondering since ~8h if *anything* - except wallpaper changer apps - will be actually implementable on this platform. And if so, then if I like the hoops you'd have to jump to establish that03:33
javispedrowell, I have still hope.03:35
DocScrutinizeryour timebomb experience pretty much extinguished all my hope03:36
javispedroyeah, it worries me too.03:36
javispedrobut maybe in the next months this clears up.03:37
DocScrutinizerwell, then maybe the N950 will collect dust until then03:37
DocScrutinizerthe longer I think about it, the more I fell like it doesn't make any sense to me to invest time in the whole thing03:43
GAN900javispedro, 16. . . .03:53
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javispedrowhich makes me think that the n9 will also be 16 (95% sure)03:54
javispedrodisplay depth03:55
SpeedEvilThere are also wierd RGBW OLEDs03:55
DocScrutinizergets managed by driver chip afaik03:56
javispedrothe N9 is PenTile (RGBG or sth like that)03:56
DocScrutinizerbut might open for a possibility to have a larger dynamic range the 1603:56
javispedrobut as DocScrutinizer the chip handles that, from sw it is all 16.03:56
DocScrutinizeryeah, pentile - the BIG hoax, the ultimate cheating. RGBG == 4 pixels X-P03:58
DocScrutinizerthat's why developers "must not use any 1 pixel wide lines or fonts"03:59
DocScrutinizerprobably those who think a pentile AMOLED screen is better than a proper LCD are those who also always thought 800*480 is a waste and 320*240 was just fine and good enough04:02
javispedroI do think 320*240 is mostly enough for a c-ts04:02
SpeedEvilIt's not that simple04:02
javispedrocan't really use the extended resolution for anything04:03
javispedroother than photo viewing maybe04:03
SpeedEvilThe eye does not have good colour resolution.04:03
SpeedEvilIt has good luminance resolution04:03
DocScrutinizeryeah, we probably all know the "retionale" behind PenTile04:03
DocScrutinizerbut then I insist in my N900 having a resolution of 1600*72004:05
DocScrutinizeras the eye's color resolution is equally low on LCD04:07
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DocScrutinizerand if pentile allows to count R G B G as four pixel, then I dunno why on LCD we can't count R G B as three pixel04:08
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, smoother text.04:10
javispedrosmoother 72pt text because of c-ts04:10
DocScrutinizeractually watching photos or movies probably is the usecase least sensitive and most forgiving to this kind of cheating04:11
javispedrooh, it is04:11
javispedrothis reminds me04:11
javispedrois it me or do movies look better on n950?04:11
DocScrutinizerseems they do04:11
javispedroif I compare the same movie on n900 and n950 seems that I can see mpeg artifacts more clearly on n90004:12
javispedrobut this makes no sense.04:12
* DocScrutinizer copies a DrHouse mp4 to N950... in a few minutes heads off to TV then, checking AV-out quality04:12
javispedroalso, n950 movie player is utterly slow. a 480p movie that plays flawless on n900 sttutters a bit on n95004:12
javispedroand 720p (unplayable on n900) is very very very very choppy on n950 despite dsp codec being capable of 720p technically04:13
javispedromy bet is that they're not using the same codec and thus the differences04:13
javispedrohave to see that.04:13
DocScrutinizerI'd like to have raster (aka Carsten) strip down the N95004:15
DocScrutinizerthough he's another 320*200 protagonist, his analytics of video performance are sharper than anybody else's I'd know of04:16
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DocScrutinizeralas it's a bit far to .kr, to visit him and show him the device04:17
DocScrutinizer~seen raster04:17
infobotraster <raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 9d 18h 56m 25s ago, saying: 'and that means.. screen, opengl-es2, etc. etc.'.04:17
javispedrolol, another webos convert04:19
DocScrutinizernah, for sure not04:19
* javispedro was ashamed when I had the council cloak while wandering around #webos ;)04:19
DocScrutinizerI'm still quite happy with my obsolete cloak, wouldn't want to change it for council or whatever04:21
MohammadAGI want a meego/harmattan/confused/user cloak04:33
ieatlinti want an openmoko cloak04:33
javispedroI want a milkyway/sol/earth one04:33
* SpeedEvil can't quite see his OM from here.04:34
javispedroeither way, Word of God says this OS is named "meego-nokia"04:35
javispedrobecause that's what the SDK "Maemo-version" package's been replaced with04:35
* javispedro ponders whether creating entirely different packaging _or_ the more interesting alternative just do another hackish set of #if MAEMO_VERSION > 5 checks in current packaging04:36
javispedroone single source package that builds from chinook to harmattan, wouldn't that be awesome.04:37
* javispedro can already hear the screams of panic from those that say you should redo the program UI entirely for every platform04:38
SpeedEvilCan you 'legally' require gtk?04:39
javispedrowho is saying anything about gtk04:39
SpeedEvilGods Tool Kit!04:40
javispedroMAEMO_VERSION := $(shell if [ -f /etc/maemo_version ]; then cut -d"." -f1 /etc/maemo_version; elif [ -f /etc/meego-nokia_version ]; then echo 6; else echo 0; fi)04:42
ieatlinti don't have an /etc/meego-nokia_version on my phone04:59
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javispedrooh, fun.05:30
javispedroieatlint: SDK05:30
javispedrothe weird screen resolution introduces, you guessed it05:30
javispedroalignment problems =)05:31
SpeedEvilHarmattan is chaotic neutral?05:31
ieatlintand aegis is lawful evil05:32
javispedrono, but 800x2 scanlines meant they started on very nicely aligned memory.05:34
javispedrofor reference n950 is 854x48005:41
javispedroand if you want to center an image, 854/2 = 427, which is not even 4byte-aligned05:42
javispedroso you get crashes.05:42
rm_youGeneralAntilles: so i guess it's been 24 hours now since it left the UK05:48
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javispedroN950 performance seems to be 1.7x that of N90005:59
antman8969are those figures coming from your gut?06:02
javispedroit's not like I have the _DEFINITIVE CPU BENCHMARKING APPLICATION_, do you?06:03
antman8969you didn't download it yet??06:04
javispedrothis is just from loading on both the same savestate and counting the amount of 65c816 cycles each one is able to do06:05
javispedro(=snes processor)06:05
javispedrofrm the video side, seems that the compositor has taken quite an speedup, dunno if from itself or the video drivers06:07
javispedroas from pushing just about 60 256x256 fps/sec I can now push around 180 on N95006:08
rm_youjavispedro: have you tried playing videos on it yet?06:10
rm_youis there a working mplayer?]06:10
javispedrohmmm.... 180fps tearfree snes *drools*06:10
rm_youwondering what bitrate/FPS/resolution is playable06:10
javispedrorm_you: actually the video player is slower than n90006:11
javispedrobut for some rason videos look nicer06:11
javispedrowild guess: software decoder06:11
rm_youbuiltin media player? or mplayer even06:11
javispedroand as I thought, enabling multitouch input is super easy with my SDL =)06:19
javispedro1' 41'' 14 in Mario Kart when I can usually do 1' 00 on N900 =)06:22
* javispedro calls it a day06:24
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GAN900rm_you, w22. :P06:26
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V13hello. I need some help with installing the SDK (The qemu image). where can I find it ?12:27
V13I've got the N950 and I can't write programs12:27
V13any ideas where to find the qemu image? I'm using debian and all the scripts that I tried failed. I patched meego-sdk-installer-online-20110519 and it finished but it seems that nothing good came out of it.12:28
V13I've qt creator installed but I want to write python programs, so the qt creator is 100% useless for me.12:29
dm8tbr <-- seen this?12:30
dm8tbrnow you have :)12:30
dm8tbrbrowse around, there are also other pages re harmattan12:30
V13thanks !12:31
V13ok.. i've one more question12:31
V13wasn't harmattan supposed to use rpm ?12:31
V13(at least meego)12:31
mzanettiHarmattan isn't real MeeGo in the subsystem12:32
tommameego uses rpm, harmattan uses deb12:32
mzanettiit only has a compatible API for UI12:32
V13so harmattan is actually harmattan12:32
tommaV13, there is also platform SDK for harmattan12:32
V13with some things from meego and qt ?12:32
V13the harmattan beta sdk script needs scratchbox.12:33
V13thanks for all that.. one more q:12:34
V13is there an alternative for sudo  in harmattan ?12:34
V13I'm going to port wifieye which needs to run a script as root12:35
V13in maemo I used sudo.12:35
mzanettitry aegis-su. At least I can run a root shell with that. But I'm not fully through how the aegis stuff works12:36
V13oh.. thnks12:36
tommathere is devel-su in developer mode12:37
V13btw, I believe devel-su is for getting a root sel12:37
dm8tbrI think it's paramount that we learn and document the whole 'capability' thing12:37
V13there is aegis-exec but I haven't search that12:37
dm8tbras it's far more important to have the 'capabilities' than being root12:38
mzanettiIs there a way to grab the volume hw buttons?12:39
mzanettiso far I use QmKeys to react to the presses12:39
mzanettibut now they do my actions AND changing the devices volume12:40
mzanettiI would like to grab them exclusively when my app is in foreground12:40
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V13dm8tbr: I believe that image is for testing apps. not for developing. right ?12:47
dm8tbrV13: dunno, the link was in my browsing history :)12:47
V13I want something like the maemo's SDK qemu image, which was an ubuntu system with scratchbox and maemo installed12:48
tommait was virtualbox image?12:49
tommabut if you are running linux system then why cant you just install scratchbox and sdk?12:49
V13tomma i used it in qemu12:50
V13tomma it seems that nothing is created for debian12:51
V13everything is created for ubuntu12:51
V13and debian has scratchbox2 which seems not to be supported12:51
V13but please, correct me if I'm wrong12:51
tommait is scratchbox1 it needs and i think installer script can install it if you dont have one12:52
V13I've seen that and it messes the system a lot12:52
V13so I won't install it in my main system...12:52
V13so either I'll create a qemu image with ubuntu in it, or I need to find something ready about that12:52
V13is there a qemu image available?12:53
V13that was for maemo:
V13I could also try using containers but that would take some time12:56
dm8tbrV13: either lxc or just a chroot, both could work12:57
V13chroot for installing ubuntu..12:57
V13never tried a linux install in a chroot12:58
V13I've used a lot but never tried an installation12:58
V13wouldn't that cause problems with any kind of gui ?12:58
V13or udev, etc ?12:58
dm8tbrwhy would you need a gui? you only need the SB?12:58
V13the SB would then need to run an X server for the harmattan ui. no ?12:59
V13fyi: trying this:
V13(not to self. of course, xnest would not be a problem)13:09
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Venemowhy is it that I _always_ miss when trying to click on a link in the N950 browser14:01
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: find . -name libyaml-perl, please :)14:04
djszapisame with: libtest-exception-perl14:06
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rZri wish we can rebuilt the whole distro from scratch :)14:19
djszapirZr: mmh ?14:20
rZrand make custom flashable rom14:21
rZrhey all14:24
rZrlet me suggest to list out packages you plan to rebuild or maintain somewhere on this page :
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rZrthis will avoid to duplicate our efforts14:25
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rZrdjszapi_: for you :14:25
rZr<rZr> hey all14:25
rZr<rZr> let me suggest to list out packages you plan to rebuild or maintain somewhere on this page :
rZr--> djszapi_ ( has joined #harmattan14:25
djszapi_yeah, my elisa connection is dodgy ;)14:26
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djszapi_rZr: I do not think there is a need for what people plan to do. It is a volunteer contribution in leisure time. Anybody can do anything anytime. I think the real solution is to get this shared community repo working and as soon as you have something to share, you can do immediately and visibly.14:30
rZrdjszapi_: do u have any text editor to suggest ?14:45
djszapi_depends on the purpose, I guess xD14:46
rZrsomething a humman can use with a capacitive screen14:46
djszapi_there is this "Terminal" application, but I just use terminals over ssh.  That has been always enough for me.14:47
rZri built mg which is emacs baby14:48
rZri can use it over ssh14:48
rZrbut not on device (miss meta key)14:48
djszapi_also arrow14:49
djszapi_at least the VK on my N9. =)14:50
rZrgestures ?14:51
djszapi_sorry ?14:53
rZrjust suggested that gestures could replace any key strokes14:54
djszapi_more or less.14:55
Venemodoes anyone plan to port AutoDisconnect to Harmattan?14:59
Venemoit could be very useful15:00
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aapoHave somebody used g_error (from glib) under harmattan/N950? Seems to me it is not printing error message, but causing only SIGABRT15:43
aaposcratchbox gives error message + qemu: uncaught target signal 6 (Aborted) - core dumped15:44
djszapicheck the dump with gdb.15:45
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aapoI checked15:46
aapomost simple example:
djszapiqemu has a lot of exceptions, unfortunately. Sometimes I had to turn off the debian package tests because of those exceptions...15:46
aapoyeah, I'm not interested in to run it under scratchbox15:47
aapoIs there any schedule when software/firmware of N950 will be updated? I mean should I spend any time now struggling with unrelevant stuff, like g_error, but just wait one(?) week?15:52
kimjuI guess there is no public schedule when or even if there is going to be a firmware update for n950. my guess would be that when n9 hits stores..15:55
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djszapiaapo: well, read the forum.16:04
djszapiThere was a discussion about it, but I would not really expect anything from Nokia, just the worst. Hence it can be just better then =)16:05
djszapiThey will probably ship a version in the end of September, in my guess because of a new maintenance release if any.16:06
piggzhaha, my friend almost won an N9, he cot all the characters correct, but in the wrong order, then someone else got it :)16:10
DocScrutinizerdjszapi: no results16:12
djszapiDocScrutinizer: thanks anyway :)16:12
djszapiDocScrutinizer: "find . -name gir1.2-glib-2.0*"16:13
djszapiWhat is now the public repository for N950 users, btw ?16:14
djszapiI mean something that you can put into your sources.list16:14
DocScrutinizeroobs sorry for the redundant 2 lines16:15
djszapiis kewl :) Where should I report a search engine feature request btw ?16:16
djszapiis there some separate harmattan bugtracker ?16:16
DocScrutinizernot afaik16:16
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Mece_hello there!16:27
piggzisnt this the marmatter bug tracker?
DocScrutinizeryes, probably16:36
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V13is there a software rep for harmattan ?17:01
VenemoV13, there is rZr's repo for one17:02
V13so, developed apps are supposed to go to ovi only ?17:03
V13I mean: there is not semi-official rep like maemo's extras. right ?17:03
V13(or official)17:03
dm8tbrthere will be cobs17:04
V13cobs ?17:04
dm8tbrso also most likely17:04
dm8tbrcommunity obs17:04
dm8tbrsupports harmattan already thanks to x-fade17:04
V13I believe that any repository related to meego will not be usable because of dpkg. right ?17:04
V13I mean: right now, if i port something to harmattan17:06
V13what should I do next ?17:06
V13dev.n.c only mentions ovi store17:06
dm8tbrThe stated intent is to have signing also for COBS17:07
dm8tbrI'm not sure if COBS will be able to grant all the capabilities that ovi/nokia store can though17:08
V13I don't get it17:08
V13right now I've a n95017:08
V13and I'll port some things to it17:08
V13but where should I publish them ?17:08
V13only in ovi ?17:08
dm8tbrif it's open source use OBS17:09
V13it's oss17:09
V13where is obs ?17:09
V13and this accepts debian package s?17:09
dm8tbrthis will also _build_ debian packages, yes17:10
V13Perhaps I need to read some things17:10
V13Since the packager (me in that case) does the packaging.17:10
V13Won't I only create a debian package ?17:10
V13(and upload the source)17:10
dm8tbryou create the dsc etc and the OBS builds it17:11
dm8tbrOBS stands for OpenBuildService17:11
V13I also create the debian/ dir17:11
V13no ?17:11
dm8tbr but there should be better pages on the topic17:13
dm8tbr rather17:14
V13thnks dm8tbr17:15
V13dm8tbr: have you used sb for harmattan ?17:17
dm8tbrdidn't get around yet to set up a build environment17:23
V13i did it but it doesn't show some graphics17:24
V13only red rectangles17:24
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V13ok.. one more: If I use SDK-installer-linux-64bit.bin (which comes with N950), it fails with error: "Could not fetch Updates.xml: Error downloading server replied: Bad Request"18:25
V13any idea ?18:25
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V13anyone here able to use *any* sdk for harmattan under linux ?18:31
V13except from qt creator18:31
VenemoV13, I have the Qt SDK18:36
V13anything else ?18:36
VenemoScratchbox is also there18:36
V13have you managed to use scratchbox ?18:36
V13That's what I get:
VenemoI have, but I don't currently have a working installation of it (HDD failure, and it's not yet reinstalled)18:40
V13did it used to work ?18:40
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Venemoit worked, yes18:40
V13with all graphics, etc ?18:40
V13and not like the one I pasted ?18:40
Venemoit had some graphical artifacts18:40
Venemoalthough I have little use for it now that I have a real N95018:40
V13and where are you developing18:41
V13I'm trying to start righting code for it (I also got a n950) and I can't18:41
Venemowell then, run your apps directly on the N95018:41
V13where will I compile them?18:41
Venemoit is a lot better experience than the Scratchbox-based SDK18:41
V13and code them?18:41
Venemolet the Qt SDK take care of that18:42
V13I suppose that you develop18:42
V13where are you writting your code ?18:42
V13I'm using python18:42
V13so no Qt SDK for that18:42
Venemoyou could still do what Qt Creator does in the background18:42
V13which is ?18:42
Venemocompile with the cross-compiler in MADDE, and have it copy over and run your executable for you18:44
V13I use python18:44
Venemosince python doesn't need to be compiled, it should be easy18:44
V13no compilation needed18:44
V13and I need svn to write code18:44
Venemothatmakes it even easier18:44
V13No SVN for n95018:44
V13right ?18:44
Venemodunno, but you can have svn on your computer, that isn't enough?18:44
V13you write the code in the svn checkedout tree18:45
V13and you commit changes18:45
V13If I'm going to copy-paste files then no need for svn18:45
V13So I want to compile SVN for harmattan18:45
V13but that's not something that can be done with qt sdk18:45
Venemoyou do not understand what I'm saying18:45
V13so I need the freaking SDK18:45
* V13 insane18:45
VenemoMADDE can do what you want18:45
Venemoit has a full sysroot18:46
Venemoand you can even install additional libs to it18:46
V13so you say I should go for MADDE ?18:46
VenemoScratchbox should work too. but if that fails... MADDE can work.18:46
V13ok.. how do i get madde?18:46
Venemoit's in the Qt SDK18:47
Venemothat wikipage is a very old entr18:47
V13I've QtSDK installed18:47
V13then what ?18:47
Venemoare you on Linux or Windows?18:47
Venemofind its directory18:48
V13I also has madde installed18:48
V13and the executables "mad" and "mad-admin"18:48
Venemothen you can use the 'mad' command as described in that wikipage18:48
Venemouse 'mad-admin' to set the current target to Harmattan18:48
Venemothen 'mad make', and you're good to go18:48
V13meego-core-armv7l-trunk <-- that one ?18:49
V13#fail there too18:49
Venemothat seems to me meego, not harmattan18:49
Venemonah, I need to get away from the computer, will be back later18:50
V13thnks anyway18:50
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vandenoeveris there something like the n900 package manager for n950?19:22
V13n950 also has apt and dpkg19:23
vandenoeverV13: i meant a gui and repository19:24
V13couldn't find one19:24
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Mekthere is a gui for updates and removal of packages, installing of new package is i think supposed to have a repo-specific gui (so ovi store, some community repo website, things like that)19:31
DocScrutinizeryeah, no GUI for app installation (yet), other than Store (""OVI: Coming soon..."")19:42
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DocScrutinizerclicking on .deb in browser usually "just works" though, with 2 clicks, one for download and another one to install19:43
V13is the "nokia account" login supposed to say "not currentl available" (or sthing like that), or is it my problem ?19:43
DocScrutinizerI had same problem for one weekend, then it was fixed for me, maybe due to my reflash, maybe because yahoo/nokia/ovi fixed their web API19:44
DocScrutinizeranyway there's a bug ticket for it, on nokia bugtracker19:46
V13"service currently unavailable"19:46
V13thnk docs19:48
* vandenoever is about to deploy an app to the phone, i've installed harmattan for qtcreator, but without emulator19:49
DocScrutinizernote that I have issues with logging in to OVI on my laptop as well, it frequently needs cleaning out an offending "sessione ended" cookie to re-establish proper login19:49
vandenoeverand now i'm wondering if the emulator might be needed for compilation19:49
DocScrutinizerotherwise (with this defect cookie) the browser thends to enter a recursive loop and eventually aborts19:50
DocScrutinizerfunny: first surfing to the frontpage makes auto-authenticate succeed, and from there it's then possible to jump to the more complex URLs that previously failed19:52
V13docs: It asks for the ovi account. right ?19:52
DocScrutinizerI'm using it with my old joerg900 account now, which seems to work19:53
DocScrutinizerV13: you could try one thing: use Web browser to log in to your OVI account, then while keeping logged in via browser try to activate the "Nokia account" with same credentials19:56
V13I'm doing something like that19:56
V13I reset the password19:56
DocScrutinizerdunno if it may help, or not19:56
V13and just changed it from n95019:56
DocScrutinizeralso "resetting to factory defaults" or "delete private info" or sth might clean out the cookie cache19:58
V13bad thing is that even if i ender a bad password it says the same19:58
DocScrutinizerwhich also might help19:58
V13how can i do that ?19:58
V13(the "delete private info"? )19:58
DocScrutinizercheck settings19:59
V13there is only full reset19:59
DocScrutinizermight be same effect I did with my reflash19:59
DocScrutinizerI guess entering wrong user password combo initially to the "Nokia account" stores a cookie somewhere that never gets cleared20:00
vandenoeverflashing gets rid of nokia account20:01
vandenoeverand contrary to flasing n900 also wipes user files20:02
DocScrutinizersettings -> apps -> web -> "Clear private data"20:02
Mekonly because the flashing script you can download for the n950 also flashes emmc, you can easily hack that bit out of it20:02
vandenoeverMek: good to know, thanks20:02
V13oh there it is! I'm not used yet to the settigns -> apps thing20:03
* vandenoever has a (very ugly) metronome with swinging pendulum running on n950 now20:03
DocScrutinizersettings -> reset -> "restore original settings"20:04
vandenoeverDocScrutinizer: that does not erase nokia account20:04
DocScrutinizerwe don't want to erase nokia account. after all we're not able to create it20:05
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V13is it possible that no-sim can cause that problem ?20:06
DocScrutinizerI think there's a cookie or whatever stored on first try to configure nokia account with incorrect data, and that cookie never gets erased after that20:06
V13I mean: does the number need to be registered to ovi ?20:06
DocScrutinizerV13: definitely not20:07
DocScrutinizerV13: I'm using the device without SIM20:08
vandenoeveris there a quicker way of closing an application than going to the application overview and pressing down some seconds?20:11
Mekand apparently once the software is finished you can configure down-swipe (or was it up-swipe) to close the app too20:12
vandenoeverok, nice20:12
vandenoeveri guess it's good practice to save state before finishing then20:13
DocScrutinizer FTW (took me some hour to test and list)20:13
dm8tbrah, I wondered who added them and how he found them :)20:14
vandenoeverhmm, my application only runs landscape despite calling QmlApplicationViewer::setOrientation20:14
lcukMek, up/down swipe is going to be odd - since orientation matters ;)20:15
fralsdownswipe is always down from current orientation, so not odd at all tbh20:19
V13ok.. back to the real problem...20:29
V13I'm trying to use madde20:29
V13I believe I've currently installed it20:29
V13so, how do I start writting programs with it ?20:30
rm_youGeneralAntilles: CINCINNATI!!!!20:30
lcukfrals, when the device is flat on the desk :P20:30
rm_younot sure why it took 22-28 hours to ger there tho20:30
lcukbecause it is cincinnati! :P20:30
lcukyou would take 22-28 hours to get there :P20:31
rm_youlcuk: the slow but steady progress of my device: picked up July 14, 14:38, leaves helsinki at 21:53. Arrives July 15 00:44 at Leipzig, leaves immediately. Arrives at East Midlands UK, 2:22, processed at 6:06. Leaves the UK at 3:53 the next day ( july 16). Arrives at Cincinnati 10:52 the next day (July 17)20:33
lcukrm_you, DHL use airships20:34
rm_youthat would... totally explain it20:34
GAN900rm_you, mine too.20:35
rm_youGAN900: i wonder when they'll split20:35
rm_youprolly now20:35
rm_yousince they hit the US20:35
rm_youyours will head to FL, mine to TX20:35
rm_youI HOPE20:35
rm_youprolly mine will hit Dallas20:35
rm_youunless yours routes to FL through Dallas (or vv) :P20:37
GAN900Could, don't recall where DHL usually routes through.20:38
GAN900Probably be here Thursday.20:38
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GAN900I'm going to get hit by a bus on the way to pick it up at the DHL center after missing the delivery.20:43
vandenoeverdo some people have qml apps that follow orientation?20:50
Mekyes, mine workst just fine20:55
Mekusing harmatan qt components20:55
Mekiirc that is the only way that is currently really supported20:55
vandenoeverMek: that is different from using QGraphicsView  setOrientation that the generated code uses?20:58
vandenoeverMek: can you paste a bit of example or url to doc?20:59
MekI think I just created a default "harmattan qml applicaiton"or whatever the template in qt creator was called...20:59
Mekand the generated c++ code doesn't do anything orientation related, it only creates q QDeclarativeView that loads the main qml file21:00
vandenoeverMek: same here, but the wizard asked me to say if i wanted auto orientation, i said yes, and this gives21:01
vandenoeverin main.cpp21:01
vandenoeverbut that gives no result21:01
Mekhuh? my wizard didn't ask me any such thing. Are you sure you chose the Harmattan template, not the generic qml app template?21:02
MekQmlApplicaitonViewer is afaik a class that is only generated in the generic template21:02
vandenoeverah, indeed, i started app before i had harmattan installed21:03
vandenoevernow qtcreator gives option for harmattan app, i'll try that and port21:03
vandenoevertoo bad that has no ability to build/run desktop version, that makes debugging slow21:04
Mekyou can run on a qemu emulated device :P but debugging from qt creator on the actual device isn't exactly slow either?21:05
vandenoevertakes about 20 seconds to start app on device here21:08
lcukwith the way aegis is locking down apps21:08
lcukdo I understand on device qml development is not possible?21:08
MekI don't think qml files are signed/hashed by aegis? but I didn't try if modifying a qml file makes aegis complain21:09
lcukMek, installed by packages21:09
lcukso most likely so, but others will know21:09
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dridkhello all!  I m looking for the qml faster listview used in contact with the search bar and the alphabetic seeker! Does somebody know how can I use it in my qml application for N950 ?21:11
Mekmy current app has the qml files embedded in the qt resources, so then you indeed can't edit them on-device, but I would think that it shuold be possible for your app to load qml files that are not necesarily installed as part of a package? (how woulda egis be able to determine that they are qml files and not random other documents?)21:11
MekI did manage to implement my own search bar, but it took quite some hacking... it seems quite some widgets that exist in libmeegotouch don't exist in qml components...21:12
dridkMek, yes and that sucks21:12
dridkI didn't find documentation about Meego API. There are some demo in the N950, but no source , no documentation...21:14
dridkonly to see ... :( :(21:14
dridkFor exemple, how to integrate application with the phone ( settings, notification etc...)21:15
Mek that has my search widget and listview...21:15
dridkMek, thanks, kde friend ?21:16
MekinputMethodHints: Qt.ImhNoPredictiveText is needed because otherwise there is no way to get the text from the text field as it is being typed21:16
Mekdridk: kde developer, yes21:16
lcukmek that has no actual search functionality though :P21:17
Meklcuk: the search functionality is in the model reacting to changes to the searchText property :)21:17
dridkMek, nice to see a community friend :)21:17
Mekand yeah, the model is my own QAbstractItemModel class21:17
dridkAnd does somebody know where can I have the name of icon theme ?21:18
Meksee what files exist on the device in /usr/share/theme :P21:18
dridkMek! I copy every icons! Are those icons opensource ?21:26
Meki have no idea...21:26
Stskeepsdoubt it21:26
dridkok, I guess nokia developpers are not present on irc freenode..21:27
Mekeven if they would be they are probably not in any position of being allowed to make statements on behalf of nokia21:28
DocScrutinizerMek: ;-D21:29
dridkok :p !21:30
lcukmek, no but they may be in a position to find related documentation/licenses21:30
lcukwhich when coming from official sources/sites/repositories etc can be used properly21:31
lcukperhaps check apt-cache on the theme itself21:31
lcukusually in debianish there is a license21:31
dridkcool! Icons are GPL! I will publish them on my blog and on nokia wiki to help guys!21:32
Stskeepsdridk: i'd look at the bianco license first.. you may have seen the base theme one21:32
lcukdridk, where does it say icons are GPL? which package are you checking?21:33
dridkOups..  I think I copy my icons folder in the same place of gpl-2.0.txt...21:33
dridkso, big mistake! Sorry!21:34
dridkAnd last question :  I suppose qml meego component are inside a binary. Impossible to get them. right ?21:36
* V13 still doesn't get it21:37
Mekharmattan components are afaik, yes, meego components at least exist in some version in the gitorious repo, and they seem to match the harmattan ones at least for everything I looked at them for21:37
V13Can someone please provide me some info on how I can do this: I want to compile svn for harmattan. Which SDK/tool should I use?21:38
Mekand components are all plaintext .qml files in /usr/lib/qt/imports21:38
* vandenoever wonders how to use e.g. type XYZ from XYZ.qml, now i get 'XYZ is not a type' XYZ.qml is in same folder as main.qml21:38
lcukhow would a serious app publisher generate qt/qml apps in a closed source manner?21:38
lcukis there a compiled qml option?21:38
Mekvandenoever: main.qml is loaded from the qt resources in the binary and XYZ.qml isn't in the same resource dir?21:39
V13lcuk I believe it's more a matter of drm than closed-source21:39
vandenoeverah, so i need to add all files to resouce file21:39
V13lcuk: If you can't see the code then you can't copy it21:39
V13lcuk: after all, if you can copy the binary then it's the same thing (w.r.t. to the proprietary code)21:40
lcukV13 companies keep source code closed for numerous reasons21:40
lcukcopying is only 121:40
lcukthe app contains business logic21:40
V13oh.. you're not referring to mobiles.. you're talking about qml in general21:41
lcuka well positioned business may have mobiles in its portfolio21:42
Jaffalcuk: There's compiled QML in Qt 5; in Qt 4 you can put them in QRC files and/or whatever encryption you want21:42
lcukala maemo/meego/iphone/ipad21:42
lcukJaffa, but that is moving the flow away from qml21:42
lcukand publisher has no reason to use qml if the app is just a binary anyway21:43
dridkMek, oaahoo!! Thanks, I found a lot of extra qml component in usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras ! Cool21:43
lcuki realise now qml is just one layer, and hopefully with qt5 a mechanism will be possible21:43
lcukbut if we expect qml/js to expand21:43
lcukand complete apps generated without a binary component at all21:44
lcuk(which REALLY simplifies deployment)21:44
Jaffalcuk: That isn't moving the flow away from QML IMHO. Nor does it reduce the benefits of QML21:44
Jaffalcuk: Most publishers/devs - especially closed source ones - won't be publishing straight from their device.21:44
lcukJaffa, if developers are being told to create binaries anyway, it is not incentive to actually expand on qml route21:45
lcukthe direct from device bit is completely different topic from earlier21:45
lcuknot related to this thought21:45
Jaffalcuk: Packages are binary. The benefits of QML are fast development, rapid prototyping, flexible and powerful UIs etc.21:45
Jaffalcuk: That QML files are interpreted doesn't seem to be an advantage21:45
lcukfast development, rapid prototyping are a function of the IDE and not specifically to the toolkit21:47
lcukJaffa, it will do when the number of architectures grows21:48
lcuklook at the OBS complexity already21:48
lcukjust wait another 12 months and the sheer number of platforms your single binary package will have to be built to21:48
lcukthen consider being able to directly download your package from gitorious without ever compiling it21:48
lcukand running it like a real thing :)21:48
Jaffalcuk: I can see your point, but directly executing obfuscated QML doesn't seem to be on the roadmap.21:49
Jaffalcuk: But you were talking about closed source apps, whose source wouldn't be on gitorious21:49
lcukJaffa, example for clarity, the principle of a (encrypted) source repo is right21:50
lcukJaffa, that might be feasible almost today actually, git installs on the device happily21:50
* lcuk hmms21:50
SpeedEvilCan apps be entirely QML/js?21:52
Mekin theory, yes (although you'll of course need a binary like qmlviewer to load the qml)21:53
JaffaIn practice, not *quite* at the moment.21:56
JaffaAlthough Qt Creator will create an appropriate stub main.cpp which bootstraps your app21:56
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vandenoeverok, now my application looks good and respects orientation, only problem left: sound is not played anymore22:13
vandenoeverperhaps Audio {} has a problem reading from qrc22:13
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vandenoeverindeed, gstreamer !♥ qrc22:20
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javispedroseemingly the N950 supports 802.11 n23:05
javispedroor at least wifi chipset (wl1273?) does23:05
antman8969do devs in here plan on making their qpplications available to Maemo 5 as well?23:14
fluxI guess it's at least feasible for GUI apps, if the QT available for Maemo 5 isn't too much behind times..23:15
antman8969thats what I was wondering. Is there going to be a Qt update for it?23:16
lcukantman8969, many of the developers here already have their apps on nmaemo523:16
antman8969is a reason that I can't just build from source in scratchbox for maemo?23:16
antman8969yes but, as I use qml more and more, I find parts of it that do not work in maemo 5 lcuk23:17
dm8tbrjavispedro: if it's a wilink6 then it's just single channel, single antenna with n modulation. so don't expect bandwith wonders23:18
dm8tbriow SISO not MIMO23:18
lcukantman8969, who said anything about qml?23:18
lcukyou asked whether developers would put their apps on m523:19
lcuki answered :P23:19
antman8969lol I should have be explicit I suppose23:19
lcukwhat you should have said is whether their new apps will be on m5 ;)23:19
antman8969will their QML*** aps  be on maemo 5?23:19
* lcuk will be updating an app for Maemo4 in a few days23:19
lcukand Maemo5 and Maemo6 actually23:20
lcukas well as MeeGo23:20
antman8969using qml??23:20
antman8969how do the desktop components look on harmattan?23:20
lcuknot looked23:21
lcukbut my calendar looks like it does everywhere else23:21
antman8969could I get the app name?23:21
antman8969and that's using plain Qt?23:23
* lcuk has a qt build but that is not what is used on maemo etc23:24
antman8969lol clearly i';m confused23:25
DocScrutinizernow what?23:26
DocScrutinizermaemo4 maemo5 qml maemo6 meego, I'm seriously confused23:26
DocScrutinizerI guess you missed this chan is #maemo after all23:27
DocScrutinizeron #harmattan the context was a bit more predefined23:29
* javispedro is now confused too23:29
DocScrutinizeras there app usually means qml app23:29
lcukDocScrutinizer, ?23:30
lcukso why were you spending hours complaining about the kernel which most certainly is not qml23:30
DocScrutinizerand not explicitly mentioning any M[456] would default to harmattan aka M623:31
DocScrutinizerlcuk: why are you spending seconds of your valuable time asking me riddles?23:31
lcuktime was not wasted, I was rolling a cig23:32
GAN900rm_you, departed 16:1623:32
DocScrutinizerlcuk: seems to me the whole effort posting this question was a complete waste of time anyway23:33
rm_youGAN900: mine is still in Cincinnati23:33
lcukDocScrutinizer, which part do you have a problem with? really I was talking with antman896923:34
DocScrutinizerand I notice a rising frequency in you posting such things, which at best could be considered mild trolling23:34
* lcuk wonders what he posted now23:35
antman8969i am REALLY confused23:35
lcukditto antman896923:35
lcuki will go for a smoke23:35
antman8969lol alright....23:36
lcukperhaps DocScrutinizer can fill you in whilst I am gone23:36
antman8969aparently our mention of m4 5 and 6 alarmed him when he did not wish to be alarmed23:36
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antman8969I swear, it was an actual conversation  though...23:36
DocScrutinizerantman8969: this channel is 99.9% about devels making apps for m523:40
DocScrutinizerthe question "do devels here plan to also publish their apps for m5" is a bit bizarre23:40
DocScrutinizerit was all sane on #harmattan though23:41
DocScrutinizerthat's what got me confused and then alarmed23:41
antman8969not if you want to know how many devs were planning to support both platforms.... It would be equally out of place if I asked how many devs were planning to support m6 in #maemo23:41
DocScrutinizermeh, sorry, I'm COMPLETELY off topic and in wrong tab23:42
DocScrutinizerscratch it ALL please, and sorry23:42
antman8969lol still slightly confused....but ok!23:42
Mekbah, my n950 seems to no longer be able to flash the cmt-mcusw part of an image... which somehow seems to make it not find its modem or at least not recognize any sim card...23:42
DocScrutinizerI thought I'm in #maemo23:42
DocScrutinizergot a "issue" with my irc client's tabs23:43
* GAN900 hands DocScrutinizer a candy bar.23:43
DocScrutinizerGAN900: thanks23:43
DocScrutinizermuch needed23:43
antman8969i see23:43
DocScrutinizeryou see I urgently need off-time23:44
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MeceI have run into an annoying problem.23:50
Mecedpkg: status database area is locked by another process23:53
Mecewhich process would that be I wonder...23:54
Meksome process checking for updates I assume? just wait a little bit and try again?23:54
Mecewell nothing happens. been waiting for a long time..23:55
Mecei have very poor reception so my guess is it failed and forgot to unlock23:55
antman8969restarting almost certainly will fix it...23:57
antman8969For me it's usually HAM doing it, and dpkg --configure -a seems to fix it (probably by mistake)23:58

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