IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-09-01

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aukeStskeeps: systemd-logind.service00:29
aukeStskeeps: vt's are now on demand in trunk00:29
aukeonce you switch to them, they get started00:29
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aukeyou'll still need to activate serial consoles as it was done before00:30
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vgradeTSCHAKeee, hi02:05
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vgradeTSCHAKeee, night mate, catch you later02:15
Cosmo[PB]he's alive \o/02:15
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Cosmo[PB]cyas03:13
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iekkumorning06:23
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berndhsgive me another hour or so06:24
iekkuberndhs, no! go to bed! it's time06:31
berndhsalmost :)06:32
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iekku:D06:36
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dm8tbrmood groaning06:40
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keistomhumm.. does obs have cron job to crash when work day starts?07:57
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Stskeepskeistom: WORKSFORME08:02
Stskeepsat least build.meego.com08:02
keistomok.. now it works again08:03
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dm8tbrkeistom: there was a >20min downtime according to ##meego-dashboard08:20
dm8tbrprobably either network or the httpd crapped out again08:20
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lcukmorning \o10:48
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JaffaMorning, all10:50
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lcukhey Jaffa10:51
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lcukJaffa is your train still overwarm10:54
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lbthey guys11:02
lbthey Jaffa11:02
slainemorning all11:03
lbtyou may ignore the implicit Jaffa != guys there ;)11:03
arfollmorning11:05
lcukin fremantle days component integration and testing occured because of irc conversation and feedback11:05
* lcuk misses that interaction with os building11:05
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lcuklbt, the community edition includes a healthy mix of components from tablet ux and handset11:09
lcukfinding out what is happening on the tablet ux would be really beneficial to the project11:09
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* X-Fade hands lcuk some gloves, so he can catch the code that will get thrown over the wall on release.11:11
lcukX-Fade, thanks11:12
arfollyou guys are assuming they haven't just scrapped it all11:13
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Stskeepsarfoll: it does kind of look scrapped11:14
Stskeepssame deal with handset UX, it was scrapped without notice11:14
Stskeepsthat was frustrating :)11:14
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arfolli get the feeling we can expect a 'new' UX from intel every year11:16
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arfollmaybe this year it'll be one at MWC and one at IDF11:17
Jaffalbt: "Jaffa != guys" - I'm just considering myself "special" ;-)11:20
lbtof course you are11:20
lbtarfoll: that's almost not a problem with the proposed new project approach11:21
lbtin fact it's practically encouraged11:21
JaffaIndeed.11:24
X-FadeWhat I find a bit worrying too is that I don't see a lot of activity on meego.gitorious.org from people other than Nokia.11:28
w00t_or bugzilla11:29
w00t_or mailing lists ..11:29
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SpeedEvilDepressing - given that nokia has 'given up' publically.11:31
SpeedEvilWho knows though.11:32
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: I for sure missed the right IRC chan then, to notice the chat about integration and testing of fremantle11:38
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lcukDocScrutinizer, heh yeah11:39
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lcukbut the way of working was certainly more active11:39
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DocScrutinizeryep11:39
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DocScrutinizerkonttori dropping by asking me "please elaborate on ths SSC bug in celmo fw, my team needs sth to do!" :-D11:40
DocScrutinizerwhich finally resulted in *#-ena11:40
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Venemo_N950good mornin11:42
Stskeepsmorn11:42
DocScrutinizermorning Venemo_N95011:42
Venemo_N950hey DocScrutinizer & Stskeeps :)11:42
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Venemo_N950Stskeeps, so what's the difference between Mer and MeeGo Core?11:45
StskeepsVenemo_N950: as an example, no GTK in base system, or dependancies on X11 (not saying they can't be added on top)11:45
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Venemo_N950Stskeeps, so will it be wayland-based?11:45
DocScrutinizerno dependencies on X11 in core sounds rather great11:45
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StskeepsVenemo_N950: no, dual ability, framebuffer, wayland, xorg11:46
Venemo_N950mhm11:46
Stskeepsit's just qt lighthouse backends anyway11:46
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: it's just you *can* get up a sshd-only system, without any x11 around11:46
Venemo_N950so wayland will be there, but won't be mandatory?11:46
Venemo_N950mhmm11:46
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Venemo_N950and is wayland really THAT much better than X?11:47
Stskeepsit really simplifies things a lot11:47
DocScrutinizerfor how, for what?11:47
RST38hWayland is not X1111:47
DocScrutinizerfor whom*11:47
RST38hIt is basically and access layer for the compositor11:47
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RST38hdoes not do any drawing afaik, nor does it do network transparency11:48
DocScrutinizerthat's what they told me as well11:48
lcukis there a window manager for wayland yet?11:48
Stskeepsright11:48
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Stskeepslcuk: WM is a very x11-y term11:48
Venemo_N950I read wayland's architecture diagram and the reasoning behind it11:48
lcukthe term still applies11:48
Venemo_N950it did make sense11:48
Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/wayland/20110419_002.jpg is technically a buffer/window manager written in QML11:48
lcukto handling the collection of windows11:48
Stskeepsthough it's closer to be called a compositor11:48
RST38hthe main reasoning behind it is "RedHat engineers want direct access to the compositor and X11 is in the way"11:48
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Venemo_N950but I'm not sure if wayland's practical implementation will be that good or not11:49
lcukStskeeps, right11:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: and we don't always like the rationale of redhat engineers, right?11:49
lcukbut without a window manager actually going between those windows11:49
lcukand handling the other os events11:49
lcukpopups and stuff11:49
RST38hDoc: Let us just say that Lennart is a RedHat engineer...11:50
DocScrutinizerthat's what I meant ;-D11:50
lcukStskeeps, even something as simple as alt-tab!11:50
lcukthe definition of "window manager" applies :P11:50
DocScrutinizer~seen raster11:51
infobotraster is currently on #webos-internals (6h 21m 46s) #meego (6h 21m 46s), last said: 'it'd require serious work to make it happy'.11:51
DocScrutinizerraster: any comments on wayland?11:51
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DocScrutinizermiso-soup time in korea :-)11:54
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DocScrutinizerI'd expect raster to answer this class of requests with just an URL really ;-)11:58
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DocScrutinizermaybe an URL to some irc chanlog11:58
DocScrutinizerfirst hit on google: >> raster had an opinion about Wayland and the EFL. << :-D12:00
Stskeepsraster always has opinions ;)12:00
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* RST38h would rather see multiple /dev/fb* devices for each layer or view port, than Wayland12:02
RST38hThat would be in Unix spirit rather than RedHat spirit12:03
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Venemo_N950'this aegis coffin' (as DocScrutinizer designated it), always drops my connection12:04
DocScrutinizerhttp://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.devel/3052012:04
Venemo_N950without any warning or thought, either 3G or wifi, it just disappears12:04
DocScrutinizerCarsten's opinion regarding wayland12:04
Stskeepsit's always so confusing when raster has same name as me12:05
Stskeeps:P12:05
Venemo_N950so what did I miss?12:05
Stskeepsnothing interesting12:05
RST38hVenemo: Missed the words "DEVELOPER EDITION" in the status bar?12:06
Venemo_N950it sucks when I start asking questions and then I get dropped when I start receiveing the answers12:06
Venemo_N950RST38h, those words are not missing, they're here even now12:06
RST38hStskeeps: Not like he (or you) have a choice now =)12:06
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* Venemo_N950 wants new software for his N95012:06
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, and what is the state of this new Mer project of yours? is it usable/working already?12:08
StskeepsVenemo_N950: working on it, it builds, which is a start ;)12:08
Stskeepsand i've had it booting to X + qmlviewer12:09
Venemo_N950that's nice :)12:09
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: (get dropped) that'S what chanlog is meant for12:09
Venemo_N950can you boot it to wayland+qml?12:09
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Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, I'll add some means of gathering the chanlog to my ircclient12:09
Stskeepson n900 i haven't yet, as there's another issue plauging me12:09
RST38hStskeeps: you resurrected Mer? really?12:11
DocScrutinizermer-II ??? o.O12:11
StskeepsRST38h: just as a working nae12:11
Stskeepsname12:11
Stskeepsno need for new artwork, :P12:11
RST38hStskeeps: way to go though12:11
DocScrutinizerdamn dancing in circles12:11
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: Mer never reached 1.0 ;)12:11
RST38hStskeeps: as you will be forking meego anyway...12:12
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StskeepsRST38h: it's really a question of how much of a fork it'd be, more like a different way of putting together things and dealing with contributors12:12
StskeepsRST38h: i mean, a bash package is a bash package..12:12
DocScrutinizerI'll start N900-minix :-P12:12
RST38hStskeeps: Well, when talking of a distro, one normally means "certain collection of packages + glue"12:13
RST38hStskeeps: If you are changing these things, it probably qualifies as a fork :)12:13
StskeepsRST38h: ~233 source packages building qt and xorg atm12:13
Stskeepsgoal is ~400 that provides meego api12:13
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, what's the issue on N900?12:13
StskeepsVenemo_N950: some odd technical detail about how the wayland lighthouse platform plugin works in qt12:14
Venemo_N950sounds weird12:14
RST38hStskeeps: Are you going to strip some though?12:14
RST38hStskeeps: Or are they all needed?12:14
StskeepsRST38h: meego's 1400 and i already cut out the LaTeX dependancy of iputils12:14
Stskeepsyou'd be surprised how many packages just exist, to generate autogenerated docs12:15
Stskeeps:P12:15
RST38hufff... meego REALLY requires Latex???12:15
StskeepsRST38h: not in install base but in build12:15
RST38hI am not surprised, I had to deal with this before in SuSE12:15
RST38hYou probably also have a Fortran dependency (comes via gcc->f2c->f77)12:15
* DocScrutinizer wonders what those distro maintainers are doing whole day thru12:15
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StskeepsRST38h: not sure i have a f77.. but let me look12:16
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Stskeepsnop12:16
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RST38hBTW, is Meego Tablet UX public and is it in decent enough shape to use it as a base?12:17
DocScrutinizerthe engineers put together a nice lean fast working stable system, then the kernel gurus come and raid all over it, bitching about "layering violation!" and messing up /sys pathes each other week. Then distro maintainers come to it and do damage to nasty12:17
StskeepsRST38h: it's public but there's irritating things like graphics only existing for 'meego compliant' devices..12:18
RST38hDoc: The solution is to switch to PicoBSD =)12:18
Stskeepsmy core won't contain UX'es or hardware adaptations, they layer longside in different projects12:18
RST38hStskeeps: oh12:18
Stskeepsso you can combine core + ux + hardware adaptation = image12:18
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RST38hnah, you will never get to this stage then12:19
RST38hsomebody has to do this, and if nobody is interested, then it is a no go =(12:19
Stskeepshm?12:19
RST38hThose plus signs will not magically materialize12:19
DocScrutinizerTHEN comes adridiot folks adding their latest ACME kernel patches, and you know you're on a highway to hell :-P12:19
StskeepsRST38h: of course12:20
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, so there will be no version of Mer with the N900 hw adaptation12:20
StskeepsVenemo_N950: Mer built for armv7hl will exist, with N900 hw adaptation built against it12:21
Venemo_N950that's good :)12:21
Stskeepsall the pieces are out there, just keeping the core small and usable in many different circumstances12:21
Venemo_N950I understand12:21
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: theory sounds good12:22
Stskeepspractice may be different, agreed12:22
DocScrutinizerno criticism12:22
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Venemo_N950but one thing I don't understand12:22
Venemo_N950you said MeeGo likes to work upstream, so why don't they just push the N900 bits to upstream kernel and be done with it?12:23
Stskeepswe do, actually12:23
Stskeepsbut some things take longer time for philosophical reasons12:24
Venemo_N950also, DocScrutinizer, I'm not sure if you checked or not, do you know if there's been any progress with those accelerometer drivers?12:24
Stskeepsupstream doesn't mean it will magically go in the instant you submit it, even if the patch is fine12:24
DocScrutinizer\o/12:24
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: Stskeeps should know12:24
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DocScrutinizerI don'T think so12:24
Stskeepsyeah, let's not go into the accelerometer discussion12:24
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Venemo_N950:P12:25
Stskeepsi've dealt with reading abill_uk's crap today and not in a mood for accelerometers12:25
dm8tbrStskeeps: what a nice way to say that arm in linux is a mess...12:25
Stskeeps:P12:25
DocScrutinizeroh poor fella12:25
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, why do you care about abill?12:25
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StskeepsVenemo_N950: i don't, but fairly prone to criticism12:25
Venemo_N950thought you no longer care about tmo12:25
Stskeepsi read it still12:26
RST38hStskeeps: Jaffa pointed me to the ignore feature on tmo12:26
RST38hStskeeps: Works pretty well, kills abill_uk dead12:26
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: a mistake12:26
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i do think so12:26
DocScrutinizerI stopped reading tmo since long12:26
Stskeepsit's a bad thing when i consider you (docscrutinizer) as sane and occasionally very constructive, compared to him ;)12:26
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DocScrutinizerapart from occasinal dropping by when somebody links me to sth12:27
Venemo_N950:D12:27
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer ++12:27
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RST38hStskeeps: Doc is just stubborn and grumpy12:28
RST38hStskeeps: But abill is plain mentally sick, sorry12:29
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RST38hNot in a creative way too, like that Polish guy.12:29
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: I bitched about general (missing) event driven design here in #meego just yesterday. accel drivers are just on example of the larger cause12:29
Venemo_N950mhmm12:30
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, what are the other examples?12:30
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: sorry, I'm not (yet) in a mood to go across it12:30
RST38hwhat do accel driver have to do with event driven design?12:30
Stskeepsanywwaay12:31
Stskeeps:P12:31
Stskeepslunch?12:31
Stskeeps:P12:31
* Stskeeps is hungry.12:31
DocScrutinizerRST38h: event as in "trigger an IRQ when due"12:31
RST38hin 30 minutes.12:31
RST38hah, ok12:31
DocScrutinizerthere's a solid amount of ignorance in designs like "A polls B polls C polls D"12:32
RST38hyou cannot teach every Chinese engineer they hire off the street every 2 months about IRQs12:32
DocScrutinizerthat's maybe the point, yes12:32
RST38hso, don't be hard on them, they are doing it the only way they know12:33
DocScrutinizerandway, other topic please12:33
RST38hDoc: reconstruction of bubonic plague germ?12:33
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Venemo_N950heh12:36
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: (lunch) if you look at the clock every 10 minutes, to decide whether it's lunch time or not, that's polling. When you use an alarm clock set to 12:30 or asked a colleague to ping you when (s)he goes to lunch, that's event drivven aka IRQ :-P12:56
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DocScrutinizerjust going to lunch when you notice you're hungry also is IRQ :-)12:57
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lcukhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/09/01/samsung-galaxy-note-official-5-3-inch-super-amoled-display-s/?utm_campaign=JoaoLuisC&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_source=SNS.analytics12:59
lcukwho can help me to make a business plan to do a meego suite of sketching apps professionally13:00
Stskeepsmake a company first?13:01
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lcukStskeeps, indeed and I am organising what I can13:04
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StskeepsScriptRipper: http://pastie.org/2464922 - per-port prjconf13:29
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RST38hSamsung Galaxy Note announced: 5.3-inch display, built-in-stylus, custom 'S Pen' apps13:43
* RST38h tempted13:43
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lcukRST38h, looks pretty but we really should have a suite of meego pen apps \@/13:45
* lcuk been trying to make them for long enough13:45
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RST38hlcuk: It is an android phone, it has got android apps13:47
RST38hFrm Samsung too, so they will be crappy most likely13:48
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luisthey where do i get meego-rpm-config14:03
StskeepsTrunk14:03
Stskeeps:P14:03
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luistlink?14:05
lcukhttps://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/meego-rpm-config was updated in may14:05
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luistwhere do i get this livecd image that is used in this example: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#Running_mic-chroot14:14
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luistwhen are we getting ubuntu 11.04 devel environment?14:43
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chouchouneluist: do you mean Meego SDK for Ubuntu 11.04 ?14:52
chouchouneit's available IIRC14:52
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chouchounehttp://developer.meego.com/meego-sdk14:53
hhonyhow can I get some older SRC RPM's (different versions than what is available on meego repo). I need the exact src versions as the RPM's from build 1.1.99/1.1.99.4.20110426.4/14:55
hhonyAnd the SRC's from that build folder are slightly different (in release number) than the RPM's14:56
luistchouchoune, well i need to make a chroot to develop14:56
Stskeepshhony: check archive.meego.com maybe14:56
Stskeepshhony: ARM or X86 source packages14:57
Stskeeps?14:57
hhonyARM14:57
hhonyarmv7l14:57
Stskeepshhony: OK, you're running into bug 967114:57
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9671 cri, High, ---, anas.nashif, VERI FIXED, Source RPMs are not published for ARMv7 packages, only for X8614:57
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Stskeepsit was solved afterwards that time14:57
hhonyso you mean for that build, the sources are not available anymore? only for later builds?14:59
Stskeepsafter that date that the bug was fixed14:59
Stskeeps-but-14:59
Stskeepsfor 97% of the packages, the source packages are equal to eachother14:59
Stskeepsfor arm and ix8614:59
Stskeepsjust different rebuild count14:59
Stskeepsit is more along lines that "they weren't available due to a script error"15:00
Stskeepsnot 'anymore' :)15:00
hhonythat was my assumption too, I was just nort sure15:00
hhonyand for the rest of 3%?15:01
Stskeepsif you want to you can pull specific revisions through the OBS's public interface15:01
hhonycould there be patches and stuff?15:01
Stskeepsrest of 3% are probably similar or relevant only to nokia n90015:02
hhonyaha15:02
Stskeepsit was a bad situation and it's fixed now (as i noted in the bug)15:02
Stskeepsare you trying to do a 1.2 softfp build or?15:03
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hhonyok, one more thing: where is OBS's public interface?15:03
hhonyI have a rootfs with the RPM's already installed15:03
hhonyfrom that build15:03
Stskeepsbuild.meego.com and api.meego.com/public can be programmatically used to get specific revisions15:03
hhonynow I need also the sources15:03
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hhonyI see15:04
hhonyok, thanks a lot, man !15:04
Stskeepsnp15:04
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JaffaX-Fade: ping re http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=440615:43
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X-FadeJaffa: Yes, still looking at it. Will update.15:45
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berndhsmorning16:02
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lcukmorning berndhs \o16:04
CosmoHill.o/16:06
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* CosmoHill got an interview :)16:20
Bostikcongrats16:20
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berndhsdeny everything, fake alzheimers16:26
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luisthow do i set time for my meego chroot from command line?16:29
MyrttiCosmoHill: break a leg :-)16:29
CosmoHillluist: you mean like "date"?16:30
RST38hMoooo Myrtti16:30
luistCosmoHill, yes16:30
luistdate displays wrong time16:30
MyrttiRST38h: baa16:30
CosmoHillluist: type "man date"16:31
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X-FadeJaffa: Does it work for you now?16:39
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JaffaX-Fade: Kick off a rebuild?17:12
JaffaX-Fade: Ah, it's already building. Cool17:13
javispedroah, is Harmattan COBS up again?17:13
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X-FadeIt should build again, yes.17:13
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JaffaX-Fade: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=attitude&project=home%3Ajaffa&repository=Harmattan has been on "Updating" for a while, with no actual log...17:18
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berndhsX-Fade: Jaffa: same here https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=e6irc&project=home%3Aearthling&repository=Harmattan17:19
X-FadeJaffa: Yes, that is onther bug. It sometimes doesn't show the live build log.17:19
javispedroah, the updating... thing :)17:19
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berndhsactually mine did just finish, the log says "rpc timeout"17:21
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javispedrosame here, right now17:21
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VenemoStskeeps, what are you planning to use your Raspberry Pi for?17:42
arfollStskeeps: nice work on armv6 port bootstraping17:43
arfollis this special mer obs going to be accessible to the public?17:43
arfolls/public/me17:43
Stskeepsarfoll: http://monster.tspre.org:2080/project/show?project=Mer%3ATrunk%3ABase:armv6l17:43
Stskeepsarfoll: i'm not sure entirely on contribution model and how people can build against it due to limited resources17:43
Stskeepsbut i have some interesting ideas17:44
Jaffaberndhs: javispedro: Ditto17:44
Stskeepssuch as a fake OBS that allows anyone with a freely available account to check out a package and when you commit, it turns into a request that is run through build testing and other stuff17:44
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arfollStskeeps: awesome. would you mind if I tried to build xbmc on it?17:45
VenemoStskeeps, "fake" OBS?17:45
Stskeepsarfoll: no api available right now, but yes, let's try when we have some stuff that boots :P17:45
Stskeepsarfoll: my OBS is like four worker strong so it's not really big :)17:45
arfollStskeeps: cool. well they are ramworkers no?17:46
Stskeepsarfoll: yeah17:46
Stskeepsso obviously faster, but fewer17:46
arfollmuch better for bootstrapping17:46
Stskeepsi already regret not getting the 24gb mem server17:47
Stskeeps:P17:47
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Stskeepsbut let's see..17:47
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arfollhow much ram are you running on those 2 servers?17:47
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Stskeepsone server, 12gb ram and workers + obs in KVMs17:48
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Stskeepsthe ports are designed in such a way you can distribute them across multiple OBS'es, so i hope we'll be able to move some things to other hosts eventually17:48
arfollcool, well hopefully raspberry guys will get you a pi soon17:49
Stskeepsi'm actually not expecting one :) hopefully we'll be able to get things going quite trivially17:49
Stskeepsand someone like vgrade or others can work with it17:50
Stskeepsif there's GLES on ubuntu with xorg then it should be easier17:50
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Stskeeps(i have too many boards at home.)17:51
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siddviciousStskeeps: hiya :)17:52
Stskeepslo17:52
siddviciousis there any application to create meego avatar of person ?17:53
siddviciousi want one, meego supporter :P17:53
Stskeepslook around on forums17:53
Myrttioh boy17:54
Myrttijust went looking at tmo. MISTAKE.17:54
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arfollStskeeps: hopefully GLES will work well and booting will not be too weird and it'll be a great low cost arm meego dev kit17:54
Stskeeps(and qt)17:54
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siddviciousStskeeps: keeps i think usb mode switch package should also be available in meego distribution cause if some one has meego network switch17:56
siddviciousoops wimax network usb17:56
siddviciouslike me :P17:56
Jaffaarfoll: My hope would be someone like Stskeeps can focus on maintaining a minimal core and then another project can build on that to provide device adaptation (for example, HDMI output drivers for Raspberry Pi)17:57
arfollJaffa: oh i totally agree, core should have no HW adaptation bits. all that should be in seperate projects17:58
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jedixWhere does meego save the HW address to ensure ethernet devices have the same numbering?18:03
jedixis that connman or the distro doing this?18:03
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jedixsomewhere in /etc/sysconfig?18:06
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jedixno..18:08
jedixmaybe osmewhere in /var18:08
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ali1234jedix: what do you mean?18:14
ali1234HW address is normally stored in the ethernet card rom18:14
jedixyes18:14
jedixbut I copied the image and booted it on another machine and that machine has eth1 instead of 0 now18:15
ali1234you mean lik eeth0, eth1 etc?18:15
jedixyeah, it seems ot remember what hw address -> eth#18:15
jedixthen restores it18:15
ali1234yeah18:15
jedixso eth0 is already `taken`..18:15
ali1234try grepping for the hw address18:15
ali1234with and without :18:15
ali1234and case insensitive18:15
jedixyeah18:15
jedixin what dir?18:16
jedix /var or /etc?18:16
ali1234 /18:16
ali1234i know network manager saves it in /etc18:16
ali1234but that isn't much use on meego18:16
jedix /var/lib/connman/ has it, but clearing htat out didn't fix it18:17
javispedronetwork manager does mac -> eth# mapping? O.o18:17
javispedroon my distro at least that's udev18:17
ali1234then, maybe on meego it is the same18:17
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ali1234or does meego not use udev?18:18
javispedrobut every distro writes those rules the way they felt that morning18:18
javispedros/those rules/udev rules18:18
ali1234well, on ubuntu it is on /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules18:18
ali1234maybe meego is similar. look in /etc/udev18:18
jedixk18:18
javispedrooh, I see that's the case on Gentoo too :)18:19
jedixyep!18:19
jedixSUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="e0:69:95:4f:3e:c1", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="eth0"18:19
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ali1234yes looks familiar18:19
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NueemannCould anyone here answer a quick question?18:21
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annmaNueemann: just ask the question18:23
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NueemannThis is probably an ameturish question, but. I have Ubuntu/Windows 7 dual booted on my netbook, and it has 3 partitions. Two are windows (OS and Recovery) and the other is ext4 formatted for Ubuntu. Would it be possible to simply format the ext4 partition and install meego replacing Ubuntu?18:25
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annmaNueemann: yes you can do that18:32
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NueemannWould meego setup the bootloader itself after I install or would I have to do that.18:32
annmaget a Meego USB iso and boot from it and choose the partition18:32
annmaMeego has a bootloader18:33
NueemannAlright. I'm downloading the ISO now.18:33
NueemannI already was.18:33
annmanot sure about Windows though18:33
annmaI installed easily Meego along Wetab OS18:33
annmathe only thing is that the bool loader is timeout to 1 whichmakes it vanish immediately18:34
annmaboot18:34
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NueemannNot exactly sure what that meant.18:34
annmanever looked at a boot loader file?18:34
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NueemannNot really. I'm not an expert with Linux.18:34
annmathere's a variable that sets the time the boot loader is displayed18:34
NueemannYou mean the amount of time18:35
NueemannLike in seconds18:35
annmatry searching the internet for dual boot meego windows then18:35
annmayes18:35
NueemannI did18:35
Nueemannhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=1900#post1900 Got that18:35
NueemannIt's for XP though.18:35
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annmayes that's what I mean18:36
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annmaas long as you know your partitions names you'll befine18:37
annmaMeego will ask you where to install and you'll choose custom18:37
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annmadoyou have a /boot partition for it?18:37
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NueemannOne sec.18:37
NueemannGonna check something.18:37
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NueemannRunning in windows, how would I check my partitions?18:40
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annmaNueemann: sorry my laptop suddenly shuts down18:49
NueemannS'allright18:49
annmamaybe it heats too much18:49
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NueemannNot sure if you saw it, but I asked how I would check my partitions in Windows.18:49
NueemannAnd the simpler the explination the better.18:49
annmafdisk in terminal probably18:51
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NueemannRunning in Windows right now.18:52
NueemannWaiting for the ISO to finish downloading.18:52
NueemannOr I might not know what fdisk is. My bad.18:53
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vgradeNueemann, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/07/creating-multi-boot-exopc-tablet-meego/18:56
CosmoHillNueemann: you want to view the partition layout of your hard drive from windows?18:56
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NueemannI have Ubuntu and Windows 7 dual booted, I'm trying to format my partition with Ubuntu and dual boot Meego in it's place.18:56
CosmoHilldo you have a seperate boot partition?18:58
NueemannI'm not 100% sure.18:58
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NueemannI have a feeling that the bootloader is installed with Ubuntu.18:58
CosmoHillif you format ubtuntu  from windows and you don't have a /boot partition you will whip out your boot loader18:58
annmaNueemann: a /boot partition is a small partition18:58
CosmoHillwipe*18:58
annmawith the bootloader installed on it18:59
NueemannWhen viewing the Disk Management software in Windows, there is a 199MB partition at the start of the drive.18:59
CosmoHillNueemann: what format?18:59
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NueemannFollowed by the Win7, Win7 Recovery, and Ubuntu partitions.18:59
* CosmoHill puts his Win7 partition18:59
NueemannIt doesn't give a format.19:00
NueemannLeading me to assume it isn't NTFS19:00
CosmoHillI'll show you my partitions on my multiboot laptop19:00
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NueemannI'll check the format with another program. One sec.19:01
lcukfiferboy, how long before your colour upgrades are painted onto the n900-ce? :)19:01
lcukhi CosmoHill19:01
CosmoHillhey lcuk19:01
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NueemannThe partition at the start of the drive is an NTFS File System. 199MB size. Labeled as "SYSTEM"19:02
CosmoHillNueemann: okay, that is windows19:02
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NueemannThe one after that is 117 GB and has Win7 on it.19:02
NueemannAnd following that is 20GB with Ubuntu19:02
NueemannThen the Recovery partition for Win7.19:03
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NueemannSo without a /boot partition, when I wipe Ubuntu, the netbook will not boot?19:04
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annmayou need to resize your Ubuntu partition to make a /boot one and a / one19:04
NueemannProblem: Max of 4 partitions. I have 4.19:05
annmayou need an extended one19:05
NueemannThe SYSTEM one, Win7, Ubuntu, Recovery.19:05
annmamake Ubuntu extended19:05
NueemannNot a tech expert. I can follow instructions without killing the netbook, but expecting me to know how to do it isn't great.19:05
annmaI am not an expert either19:06
annmaif you install another OS on your machine you're becoming an expert19:06
NueemannSo I have to make the 19.5GB Ubuntu partition extended?19:06
* slonopotamus yawns19:07
annmaI think so19:07
CosmoHillNueemann: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/partitions.png19:07
Nueemanndamn19:08
NueemannCosmo, any suggestion on doing this?19:08
CosmoHillI'd just install meego over the top of ubuntu, this would replace it's boot loader19:08
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slonopotamuswindoze screenshots in #meego. no wai.19:09
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NueemannWould I still be able to dual boot?19:09
CosmoHillyou could also try "fixmbr" from windows19:09
CosmoHillslonopotamus: yes but it says linux a lot19:09
NueemannBasically, in simple terms, installing Meego over Ubuntu (Wiping the partition in the progress) would replace the GRUB bootloader with the one Meego uses?19:09
CosmoHillyes19:10
CosmoHillhowever19:10
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CosmoHillyou need to make sure it doesn't wipe windows off your system19:10
CosmoHillyou may also need to add Windows to the meego boot loader manually, if it's grub that's pretty easy19:10
NueemannWouldn't not wiping windows just be making sure to use the already existing partiton?19:11
CosmoHillI've not installed meego on any system before so I'm not so sure of the parition options at installation19:11
NueemannWorst case scenario is that I have to wipe the whole hard drive. Which isn't the end of the world, but I'd kind of rather keep Windows.19:11
NueemannJust in case I need it.19:11
NueemannJust that Ubuntu is being useless to me (Running slowly, stuff crashes), and Meego looks like my best netbook friendly option.19:12
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CosmoHillI need to replace RHEL 6 with Fedora 15 on my laptop19:14
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slonopotamus_it's 2.5x better? :)19:14
NueemannI could probably wipe the computer altogether and dual boot Meego and Fuduntu.19:14
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slonopotamusNueemann: just install it in a VM. it's the only safe place.19:15
CosmoHillit's free19:15
NueemannInstall which in a VM19:15
CosmoHillit also confuses the pop out of your friends when you alt tab between OSes19:15
CosmoHillMeego19:15
Nueemannah19:15
CosmoHillMeeGo can't host VMs19:15
slonopotamusmeego is linux, isn't it?19:16
slonopotamuslinux can host VMs19:16
NueemannWell, that brings me back to my problem. I need to replace Ubuntu.19:16
CosmoHillslonopotamus: you've have to recompile the kernel and install all the required packages yourself19:16
NueemannWith something netbook friendly.19:16
slonopotamusNueemann: like, netbook-a-buntu? :)19:16
NueemannUbuntu doesn't have a netbook version anymore.19:17
NueemannThe merged it with their new UI, which is horrendous.19:17
CosmoHillNueemann: zenwalk? Fedora 15, LFS19:17
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slonopotamusNueemann: so what's the problem? you saved all important data from ubuntu partition? if yes, just install other os there.19:18
CosmoHillNueemann: you might want to consider a /home partition19:18
NueemannI'm trying to not make this confusing, lol.19:19
CosmoHillyou can have one /home partition between multiple distros19:19
NueemannIf it's to avoid getting rid of Ubuntu, it doesn't matter.19:20
NueemannI'd rather use a different distro.19:20
CosmoHillanother advantage of a home partition is you can replace the distro and keep your data19:20
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NueemannI don't have any important data on the partition either.19:20
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NueemannI have an external HD with all my data backed up.19:21
NueemannAnd I used it for most of my storage.19:21
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slonopotamusso what's the problem? all modern OSes allow you to choose partition to install to.19:22
ali1234not meego 1.319:22
slonopotamus:/19:23
NueemannMy original problem was that I wanted to dual boot Meego. But I might go with another distro.19:23
Nueemannto avoid that19:23
slonopotamusali1234: sarcasm?19:23
NueemannI mean avoid problems19:23
ali1234slonopotamus: no, just a fact19:23
slonopotamusmeh19:23
NueemannAll I really need is a lightweight distro that will run well on my netbook.19:23
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NueemannPreferrably one that I can use VLC on as well.19:24
slonopotamuseven if it doesn't, you can just manually copy over rootfs contents and setup boot loader appropriately19:24
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NueemannHow heavy is Fedora 15 running LXDE?19:26
slonopotamusyou can run vlc on anything that has qt19:26
ali1234and codecs19:26
ali1234which meego is rather lacking19:27
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arfolladd home:arfoll:codecs ;-)19:27
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slonopotamusapprox as heavy as debian running lxde19:28
slonopotamusand approx as heavy as ubuntu running lxde19:28
slonopotamus(gentoo is the lightest of course) :P19:28
CosmoHillslonopotamus: LFS is lighter19:29
NueemannI think I looked at Gentoo as an option.19:29
ali1234"light" linux is basically a waste of everyone's time19:29
slonopotamusCosmoHill: sure19:30
ali1234by the time you have installed firefox, codecs, flash, im, office, etc, it isn't light any more19:30
CosmoHillthen again LFS is more of an experience that a distro19:30
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slonopotamusali1234: don't tell me meego is so broken that you cannot ./configure && make && make install codecs19:31
ali1234you could do but what is the point?19:31
ali1234if you want to do that use LFS19:31
ali1234if you want a distro that just works, there is fedora or ubuntu19:31
* CosmoHill would recommend fedora19:32
slonopotamusNueemann: just use ubuntu :)19:32
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ali1234don't pick fedora if you need a lot of help19:32
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ali1234because fedora users are all jerks19:32
NueemannI am using Ubuntu. It's causing problems.19:32
* CosmoHill is a total douche19:32
NueemannAnd Unity is ugly and unwieldy to me.19:33
ali1234you probably won't like meego netbook either then19:33
CosmoHillNueemann: why not try xfce or kde?19:33
slonopotamusthere's more than one DE in ubuntu19:33
NueemannI know there's more DEs. I thought of Lubuntu as well.19:33
CosmoHillor LFX, something like that I can't remember19:33
slonopotamusNueemann: sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop19:33
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NueemannLubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu19:33
NueemannThe main 4.19:34
NueemannThere's Mythbuntu too19:34
slonopotamusand voila, you have kde in your ubuntu.19:34
slaineNew toy for my IdeaPad, yfrog.com/hwbqesj19:34
ali1234KDE is really the only one that is even half way usable19:34
arfollslaine: on #meego how dare you19:34
ali1234and it is even more resource intensive than gnome/unity19:34
slonopotamusNueemann: the _only_ difference between them is default software installed.19:34
arfollbut is that real honeycomb?19:34
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NueemannGonna switch to Ubuntu.19:35
NueemannLike, reboot my comp.19:35
slonopotamusvia apt-get, you can have a system that is a union of all those *buntu. or neither of them19:35
ali1234slonopotamus: installing more than one *bunutu-desktop is a really bad idea19:36
* CosmoHill used to say that ubuntu was vista with a different kernel19:36
slonopotamusali1234: no kittems died when i did that, i checked19:36
NueemannI can stay with Ubuntu or switch to Fedora.19:37
ali1234if you install kde and gnome then you get shortcuts to all kde programs in gnome, and shortcuts to all gnome programs in kde19:37
ali1234this doesn't really affect kde since it's start menu is a complete mess19:37
ali1234but the gnome start menu grows by a factor of about 519:37
NueemannMight wait for Ubuntu 11.10 and see if things are any better.19:37
ali1234you can also run into problems when you dist-upgrade19:37
ali1234when your install transforms into a totally different one for no reason19:38
ali1234that actually happened to me once19:38
* slonopotamus didn't see any big signs with red letters like "NEVER EVER INSTALL GNOME AND KDE ON UBUNTU AT THE SAME TIME, THAT'S UNSUPPORTED"19:38
Nueemannlol19:38
ali1234i installed kde on ubuntu to test, at next dist-upgrade, gnome was deleted and install became full kubuntu19:38
ali1234i was not amused19:39
CosmoHillslonopotamus: it's like having two girlfriends, just cos you can doesn't mean it's a good idea19:39
ali1234since then i don't do dist-upgrades any more19:39
slonopotamusCosmoHill: you know, there can be more than one user on one computer19:39
CosmoHillactually I'd forgotten that19:40
slonopotamusCosmoHill: and they might want different DEs19:40
ali1234oh sure, it is supported19:40
ali1234it just doesn't work very well19:40
ali1234it's supported in the sense that if you report bugs about it, they won't be immediately closed wontfix19:40
slonopotamusthat's the same guarantees you have with any software19:41
ali1234yes19:41
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ali1234but some software is less buggy19:41
CosmoHillwindows ME was an ant farm19:42
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slonopotamusofftopic: meego website on n900 is a total mess19:43
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slonopotamuswhere's "download" button? :/19:45
* slonopotamus is very close to fail trying meego19:46
slonopotamusah, s/meego.org/meego.com/19:47
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CosmoHillhttps://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-handset19:47
slonopotamusi naively assumed meego is noncommercial19:47
Khertanis there a reason cobs being so slow to build a simple package and publish it to the repo for harmattan target ?19:48
slonopotamusnice, meego doesn't work on amd cpus.19:50
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Stskeepsit runs on amd's with SSSE319:51
CosmoHillif someone has run Meego on an AMD with SSSE3 I'll add it to the page19:51
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slonopotamuswhich aren't sold yet?19:52
slonopotamushmm, looks like bobcat already is19:52
Stskeepsi thought they were19:52
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CosmoHillsupported_processors?19:54
CosmoHillany processors not on the list that should be? (Intel)19:55
lcukwhich list?19:55
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Khertanre s19:55
CosmoHillhttp://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors19:55
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slonopotamusaccording to internets, bobcat should also be supported (and sold) and bulldozer should be supported (but not sold yet)19:57
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* slonopotamus throws away his shiny new 6-core phenom II19:58
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lcukhi Khertan20:04
lcukhow is your editor coming along on n950?20:04
Khertansome things still missing20:05
Khertanlike search or preferences20:05
Khertanbecause doing qml borring me20:05
Khertanbut else it s useable :)20:05
Khertanif cobs want to create the package20:05
Khertan(and it s really faster than on an n900)20:05
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Khertanand hi lcuk :)20:09
Khertanand you did you plan release liquid based apps ?20:09
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lcukKhertan, they do what I want them to, when professional version is completed it will be available20:12
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* CosmoHill has changed the Supported Processor page to include some AMDs and to ask to be contacted for changes / updates20:37
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lcukthanks CosmoHill :D20:46
CosmoHillnp20:46
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CosmoHillunless lot of people contact me20:48
lcukCosmoHill, amended your note and started monitoring the page20:48
* lcuk puts head back into steering 20:48
lcuki should put this on the wiki20:48
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* lcuk poking around with vkb22:32
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lcukn901araujo i will redo those in a few minutes, smoking atm22:40
araujolcukn901, ok :)22:41
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xiaobaojkl2000no one want to say something about meego ?23:45
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aukewhat would you like to hear about MeeGo?23:46
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arfollauke: he left...23:48
berndhsyoung people, so impatient23:49
arfollberndhs: you can see age on IRC?23:49
berndhsI go by the degree of impatience :)23:50
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aukeI can be impatient...23:50
berndhssome people dont have a choice23:52
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