IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2011-09-02

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lcukJaffa, lbt, Stskeeps - i hope that is ok.00:43
lbtemail?00:43
lcukyes00:44
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lcukcc the ml if its ok00:44
lbton TODO00:44
lbtlcuk: can we have a group chat tomorrow or saturday?00:46
lcuksure00:46
berndhswhile you guys are here, what can i do to advance CE with my 950 without moslo ?00:46
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lbtberndhs: sorry, I can't answer that00:48
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* lbt waves to auke00:49
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* Ulf_ waves to lbt 00:52
* Ulf_ waves to auke 00:52
* lbt feels less ignored now... it's that youthful impatience I obviously have :)00:52
Ulf_:)00:53
* auke arms and prepares to fire darts of torture at Ulf_ 00:57
lbtgood mood today eh?00:57
aukeI can't reach you from here :)00:58
* lbt tries to think up some outrageous taunts00:58
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lbtauke: did you see my blog post on meego ? the 'by installments' one ?01:03
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aukesorry, no, link?01:05
lbthttp://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/08/restructure-meego-by-installments.html01:05
lbtnot short ... but I put a lot of effort into it :)01:05
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aukehehe, hardly a "blog post" indeed, by size :)01:06
CosmoHill>.>01:06
CosmoHill<.<01:06
CosmoHill^.^01:06
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lbtit's a subject worthy of some consideration,,,, quite a lot as it turned out...01:07
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* lbt prods Ulf_ to maybe take a look too :)01:08
aukeIt's certianly worthwhile to write out like that01:08
lbtFeedback would be appreciated ... in general there's been a lot of "positive vibes" but I'm happy to find areas that need to be rethought01:10
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dm8tbrberndhs_meego: the problem is that although you can flash your own kernel, it doesn't boot properly or sthg like that, ask Stskeeps06:50
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dm8tbrhmmm first core obs went down for a 30min nap and then api started flapping for 2h06:59
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dm8tbrgood moaning07:54
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biedrogood cause its friday :)08:36
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lcukmoo10:30
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lcukwhat a nice email this morning :)10:56
Stskeeps"you're fired"?10:57
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lcukStskeeps, the opposite :)10:58
Stskeepsyou're fired, out of a cannon? ;)10:59
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lcukwhy isn't javispedro ever online11:06
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henahttp://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110901PD217.html11:14
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henahuh?11:14
henadoesn't seem good11:15
Stskeepshena: industry sources, intel states it's committed, what else could they say?11:15
Stskeepsit's being blown up a bit from being a rumour11:15
henaok11:15
Stskeepsi saw a intel commit this morning11:15
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lcukStskeeps, hopefully on the calculator11:17
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VenemoStskeeps, so you're saying that link is lying?11:32
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Venemoit sure looks like just speculation11:33
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StskeepsVenemo: i'm saying it doesn't look very documented11:35
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Venemoand I'm saying it looks like FUD11:36
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RST38hhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20100779-64/meego-os-fading-fast-intel-says-its-still-committed/11:50
Stskeepsmm, futurama episode11:50
niqtin what sense?11:54
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lcukmorning lardman \o12:40
lardmanhey lcuk12:41
CosmoHill.o/12:41
lardmanit's a girl, but we already knew that12:41
lardmanborn on Sunday, 8lb 11 !12:41
Stskeepscongratulations lardman :)12:41
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lardmanthanks Stskeeps12:41
CosmoHillcongrats12:42
* CosmoHill goes to convert that to metric12:42
lcukcongrats Simon :D12:42
lcuklardman, what have you named her?12:42
lardman3.93 kg iirc12:42
lardmanElla12:42
lcuk:D12:43
lardmanthanks CosmoHill, lcuk12:43
CosmoHillthanks12:43
CosmoHilloo, cool name12:43
lardmanand dare I say it, she does indeed sleep like a baby, though I'm still not used to needing to get up 3 times a night12:43
CosmoHillreminds me of my french cousins, who's names I can't spell12:43
SpeedEvillardman: :)12:44
* SpeedEvil idly wonders why nobody sells fume-cupboards for changing babies.12:44
lardmanSpeedEvil: they don't smell much to begin with actually, I was quite surprised12:45
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SpeedEvilI know.12:45
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lardmanThe one good thing about being in hospital (Holly, not me) is the fact they now have QR codes on the inpatient wrist tags ;)12:45
SpeedEvil:)12:46
* SpeedEvil prepares for the 'massive patient confidentiality leak' story.12:46
lardmanSpeedEvil: the scented nappy bags could probably disgise the smell of a missing Iraqi mustard gas WMD, at least so far anyway12:46
RST38hOMG, wife's wrists, N900, barcode scanner app - it just does not get any better =)12:46
lardmanRST38h: indeed, though she was less keen on the holding still so husband can test his application business :)12:47
lardmanSpeedEvil: it only encodes name, hispital number and NHS number, so same as is written12:47
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aleksander_m... how do I install build deps with zypper?13:06
aleksander_m(without source-install)13:06
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Jaffalcuk: Would you see your proposal sitting within the CE block on my Blueprint?13:07
Jaffalcuk: Or is it a parallel/alternative/next-step proposal?13:07
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lcukJaffa, i was asked to create a document for the CE which exists within MeeGo13:17
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Jaffalcuk: OK. I remembered *something* about CE coming under the formeego.org banner /before/ Blueprint was mooted.13:35
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ali1234aleksander_m: by default si installs the dependencies and the source, if you specify -D you get only deps, and if you specify -d you get only the source13:39
ali1234or maybe it is the other way around13:39
ali1234also note that meego-packaging-tools and meego-development-tools are not listed in build deps, you have to install them manually13:40
ali1234and if you run into packages that won't build, please let me know13:40
ali1234i can't do anything about it, i just like to complain about them13:40
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ali1234-d is only dependencies and -D is no dependencies13:42
ali1234so you want zypper si -d13:42
aleksander_mali1234, ahh, great :-) thanks13:43
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Guest14:24
CosmoHillno14:24
lcukjaffa ask jukka, he was the one who asked me to write it.14:26
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fiferboyDoes MeeGO CE use qt components?16:37
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Stskeepsfiferboy: we're rebasing on meego 1.3 that gives us qt 4.8 and better qt components16:40
Stskeepsfiferboy: http://blip.tv/carsten-munk/qt-components-harmattan-on-n900-meego-1-3-based-550844716:40
fiferboyStskeeps, thanks.16:41
radiofreefiferboy: theres also http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2011/07/08/porting-meego-1.2-harmattan-qt-quick-components for 1.216:41
fiferboyI was wondering what qt components uses for the theming without blanco available16:41
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fiferboyradiofree, right. I take it that uses 'base' theme16:42
radiofreefiferboy: sorry, no idea16:42
Stskeepsfiferboy: we have a base theme that's free16:42
fiferboyNP. I added colour themes to qt-components for Harmattan and would like to do so for non-Harmattan16:43
fiferboybase theme doesn't have multiple coloured widget images I think16:43
Stskeeps:nod:16:44
fiferboyMaybe I could do it a different way16:44
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fiferboyEither creates colorized versions of the open source component images16:44
fiferboyOr add a color filter to them somehow16:45
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fiferboyalthough maybe outside Harmattan color widgets aren't that desirable16:45
fiferboyIt is good in Harmattan to match the system colours16:46
khertansystem colours ?16:46
khertanhu there is one ?16:46
khertan(i mean seriously)16:46
fiferboykhertan, In Harmattan yes16:47
fiferboyoutside that not really16:47
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ScriptRipperHi Stskeeps, I had put a number of your patches to reduce rebuild into my 1.2.0 rebuild test repo17:13
Stskeepsok17:13
ScriptRipperbefore I submit cpio and m4 -x86, I check if it works fine first17:13
ScriptRipperthen I upload into my home: at meego.com OBS17:13
ScriptRipperand we see what has to happen with it17:14
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Stskeepsyep17:15
ScriptRipperI use 1.2.0 because Trunk is for me too much of a moving target :D17:15
ScriptRipperStskeeps, you said to use substitute is too invasive. What kind of keyword do you have in mind instead ?17:17
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ScriptRippera modified suggests ?17:18
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ScriptRipperor a kind of CBsuggests: ?17:19
Stskeepsok, like, CBinstall: X if installed(Y)17:19
Stskeepsso CBinstall: doxygen-x86 if installed(doxygen)17:19
Stskeepsif you get my idea17:19
ScriptRipperyes17:19
Stskeepsthen we can even do groff-x8617:19
ScriptRipperyes17:19
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ScriptRipperwhat would be the "non CB version" ?17:20
ScriptRipperjust installif17:20
Stskeepssomething like that i gues17:20
Stskeepss17:20
Stskeepsit's mostly useful for cross stuff17:20
ScriptRipperok17:22
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dnearyHi17:30
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dnearyJust read this (completely unconfirmed) bombshell: http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wireless/199679/intel-pulls-meego-plug17:30
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leinir*nods* yup, it's been making the rounds17:31
Stskeepsdneary: yes, if you look at the article it's "we heard from a industry source X and intel states it's commited to meego"17:31
leinirAnd yes, utterly and completely unfounded in reality :)17:31
dnearyStskeeps, You think I didn't qualify it enough with "totally unconfirmed"?17:31
dnearyleinir, This is not the first time I have heard this or similar rumours17:31
Stskeepsdneary: had to debunk it more, even though things are way too silent around here for my own good17:32
Stskeepsi think there's some reallocation ongoing in intel and more focus on IVI/TV, tbh17:32
dneary"similar rumours" => perhaps moving away from community development to more structure consortium approach17:32
leinirdneary: *nods* Yup, heard it too17:32
Stskeepsmeh, if meego turns out to be a failboat, i'm grooming Mer for a revival17:33
Stskeeps:P17:33
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Stskeepsredshirts never give up ;)17:33
SpeedEvilStskeeps: :)17:33
leinirnever surrender, never give up? ;)17:34
leinirisn't that the Galaxy Quest motto? ;)17:34
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RST38hStskeeps: Will you go back to Debian for Mer? =)17:34
StskeepsRST38h: no, i've grown to like rpm's enough17:35
Stskeepsand remembering how much stuff i had to cut through in debian..17:35
RST38hAnd Meego is much leaner?17:36
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, often it's just about removing buildrequires and think adapt17:36
Stskeepsthings17:36
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StskeepsRST38h: in debian you often have to sacrifice furry animals17:39
RST38hYou are saying as if it were a bad thing!17:40
berndhssee, that's why I never got the hang of debian, I used chickens17:40
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Myrttithe safe bet is herring, either atlantic or baltic17:44
Myrttiit works magic17:44
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RST38hanyone tried humans? I have heard they work like a charm...17:47
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berndhsi suppose an advantage of closed development is that you _can_ sacrifice humans17:50
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TSCHAKeeealways nice when industry speculation makes me incredibly depressed.18:00
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* Stskeeps offers TSCHAKeee a hug18:00
* Stskeeps gets back to removing gobject-introspection18:00
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: saw my http://monster.tspre.org:2080/project/packages?project=Mer%3ATrunk%3ABase ?18:01
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Stskeeps(and http://monster.tspre.org:2080/project/packages?project=Mer%3ATrunk%3AQt - enough to get up to qt)18:01
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TSCHAKeeestskeeps: awesome :)18:10
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CosmoHillsince when has MeeGoBot been an op?18:21
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Stskeepsprolly a typo by me18:22
CosmoHilltypos are fun18:23
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* thiago wonders how Stskeeps typoed "Hello" to "/op MeeGoBot"18:27
berndhsthat's an easy mistake to make18:27
CosmoHillthiago: you should have seen what happened when he tried to type "goodbye"18:27
CosmoHillall those poor little rabbits18:27
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* lcuk ponders18:39
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lcukrule 9: try your best.18:53
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berndhslcuk: do, don't try19:02
lcukberndhs, I do19:02
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timophlcuk: watching zombieland?19:24
lcuktimoph, not recently19:24
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timophthat rule comment just made me think of the rules in it :)19:25
lcuktimoph, it is one of the rules me and jake have built up over the years19:26
timophsounds like a good rule to follow19:26
* lcuk has been pondering #9 for a while but I say it enough to him19:26
lcukthe others are just as sensible :)19:27
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jykae_n950has anyone tried enlightenment on meego?19:31
lcukjykae_n950, I wasn't aware the libs had been built19:32
lcuktimoph, are you going to openmind.fi?19:32
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jykae_n950captainigloo has been doing packaging for harmattan at least19:33
timophlcuk: most likely yes19:33
timophI'll know on monday19:34
jykae_n950is openmind free conf?19:36
timophno19:36
timoph~180e19:36
jykae_n950:(19:36
jykae_n950it's even in tampere this time19:37
timophyep19:38
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lcukjykae_n950, see about sponsorship19:49
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captainigloojykae_n950: build is not working19:53
captainiglooneed more work to have all packages19:53
maligortampere is in the wilderness beyond kehä 3 with polar bears and killer seals19:53
jykae_n950maligor: haha :D19:54
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* jykae_n950 is in demoparty currently19:55
jykae_n950captainigloo: ok19:56
jykae_n950captainigloo: I could try also build at some point20:00
jykae_n950I have just got into enlightenment on desktop,20:01
jykae_n950want to see this also on mobile20:02
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aukeSage: thx for fixing & updating systemd...!20:06
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CosmoHillkudos to Sage20:08
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Stskeepsauke: we have a race towards a 1.3 core + seperate MTF-based UI in end of september, hence the bugfixes ;)20:08
aukecool20:10
aukewell the 1.3 core should be pretty darn nice now... startup should be quick and plugging new UI's should be easier20:10
Stskeeps:nod:20:10
Stskeepsi was surprised with how good performance we got with qt components on top of 4.820:11
Stskeepsand startup, too20:11
javispedroI ponder..20:11
javispedrowhat kind of stuff is currently considering not-core?20:11
aukeapart from Qt, I've seen several UI's start in ~10 seconds or so on pinetrail (with ssd, though)20:11
Stskeeps:nod:20:11
javispedro*considered20:11
Stskeepsjavispedro: google meego package-groups as a start20:12
aukejavispedro: for me personally, core is everything *under* Qt & friends20:12
Stskeeps:nod:20:12
aukesensor stuff is pretty much core nowadays20:12
javispedrobut20:13
javispedro"the minimal subset required to get Qt to run" != the minimal subset to do anything useful with it?20:13
Stskeepsjavispedro: well, there's always build requirements20:14
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javispedrothose alone are not enough to do anything useful with it...20:14
* CosmoHill thinks "The Other Guys" better get interesting soon20:14
javispedroI mean, Qt does not even strictly require X11...20:14
aukein essence20:15
aukecore means20:15
aukethat which can support any UX20:15
javispedrook :)20:15
auketake out qt/mtf, plug in netbook20:15
Stskeepsi intend to look at qt mobility's dependancies .. those really look crazy on a distance20:15
javispedroStskeeps: exactly20:16
* javispedro figures that all the crap that must be on the current core is there for a reason.20:16
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aukejavispedro: unfortunately, yes...20:17
Stskeepsi think it's crazy that iputils has a LaTeX build dependancy20:19
Stskeeps:P20:19
javispedroyou'll always find crazy ones like that one =)20:20
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RST38hHeya javispedro20:21
javispedrohelo20:21
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RST38hHow is life tonight?20:21
javispedropondering where to waste it on :)20:22
javispedromaybe I should take that look on dgles2...20:22
Stskeepsheh, was just going to suggest it20:22
RST38hjavispedro: preenv!20:22
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jykae_n950Stskeeps: iputils has latex build dependency, pfft :)20:28
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javispedrotell that to me, this morning I had to upgrade latex on my workstation and ended up breaking gnome-session, the clock applet, and firefox20:30
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* javispedro has still not been able to figure why20:30
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javispedro(it is gentoo, which, because of most autoconf scripts have a tendency to enable a feature automatically if the related library is there, has a tendency to have weird library dependencies everywhere.20:32
javispedro)20:32
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aukethe trick is to build in a chroot so you don't have that issue20:33
aukeunfortunately, that is extremely expensive if you run a source distro like gentoo20:34
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barrocahello, where i can get more information on ohmd and how to implement my own policy package?20:36
RST38hjavispedro: I would avoid gentoo like plague20:41
javispedroRST38h: the ability to auto apply my patches when new versions come is priceless20:41
RST38hjavispedro: Last time I had to use it, a Python upgrade brought down the whole packages update system20:41
javispedroRST38h: think ripping pulseaudio and reapplying the alsa-based mixer implementation patch on gnome everytime a update comes, automatically20:42
RST38hjavispedro: ah, interesting...20:42
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RST38hjavispedro: But I gave up on removing PA.20:42
javispedro(of course, the patch sometimes breaks, so it takes time... but gnome folks do not change this stuff that often)20:42
RST38hDid manage to disable Tracker on desktop, after it generated 300MB+ of metadata20:43
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lcukjavispedro, ahh20:46
lcukyour sdl patches20:46
javispedrowhat?20:46
lcukare they needed for MT on meego netbook?20:46
javispedroyes20:46
lcukie my ideapad20:46
lcukwill they work there?20:46
javispedroyep20:46
lcuk:D awesome20:46
javispedrohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76HMBHESVLU20:46
javispedroas long as Meego doesn't start using newer XInput..20:47
lcuk:D boobie test20:47
javispedro:)20:47
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jktjavispedro: thanks for your binhash.py script, I've just used it to sign my libqmldbg_tcp.so, and now I can enjoy remote QML debugging. Thanks!20:58
* jkt goes to the pub20:58
berndhsremote debugging from the pub, always wanted to work like that20:59
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Sageauke: np.21:08
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SageI hope we can get the MTF based UX ported on top of the 1.3 core during next week so we can start testing the MeeGo core more as well.21:11
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SageWould be nice if someone would fix the Tablet UX in 1.3 so users could boot the 1.3 on exopc for example. The sad thing is that people controlling devel:meego-ux project are not very active atm. :/21:12
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IanWizardI'm thinking of getting a German mail forward, to get the N921:14
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Stskeepswhy not just go to berlin for a weekend?..21:14
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IanWizardStskeeps, seriously?21:15
BostikStskeeps: I'd take an extended weekend, if I could21:16
Stskeepswhy not? :P21:16
IanWizardStskeeps, at least a 12 hour flight for a phone?21:16
Bostikit's a nice city but two days is not enough to even get a round much21:16
StskeepsIanWizard: no idea where you live21:16
Bostikthis year I won't even dream of attending CCC, though :/21:16
IanWizardUS21:16
IanWizard:P21:16
IanWizardactually... :(21:16
IanWizardI wanna live in AU21:17
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IanWizardI'm gonna get a N9, and a WeTab, while I have the address.21:17
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IanWizardHave any of you heard of CityOffice?21:17
IanWizard(yourcityoffice.xom21:17
IanWizard*.com)21:18
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IanWizardI'm a bit wary of a scam.21:19
Stskeepseverything is potentially a scam on the net21:19
IanWizardIt's not the 40EU that I'm worried about, it's the 1200 worth of tech that I'll be sending there :)21:20
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IanWizardbrb21:22
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IanWizardback :D21:23
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timelessStskeeps: latex build deps tend to be for building documentation22:06
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timelessjavispedro: i'm curious about how firefox failed because of that22:07
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javispedrotimeless: I was too. For about 2 hours. Then gave up.22:09
javispedrotimeless: it was MIME related.22:09
javispedroactually mimedb22:09
javispedrothe crash was on gnome-vfs22:09
timelesswhat version of gecko?22:09
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timelesswe were supposed to totally drop it by ff9 iirc22:10
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javispedrotimeless: I'm still on 3.6 fwiw.22:10
timelessy?22:10
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javispedroyou should know the matching gecko version by heart! ;P22:10
timelesssure, but *why* are you using firefox3.6?22:11
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javispedroI have some extensions here I can't be arsed to forward port.22:11
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jedixhow should I be rebooting meego?23:03
jedixreboot as root causes systemd to reprot things as failed23:04
jedix<29>systemd[1]: xorg.service: main process exited, code=exited, status=123:04
jedixetc23:04
jedixsystemd start reboot.service also causes this23:06
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ali1234jedix: shutdown -r now23:13
jedixali1234: thanks23:16
ali1234might not be any different though23:16
fiferboyDo any 1.3 images install and work?23:23
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jedixali1234: i tisn't :(23:27
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lcuklbt, I am going to have a go at actually trying the points required in that document this weekend23:30
ali1234jedix: it's a bug then. but a very minor one that has little chance of being fixed23:31
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iekkuali1234, still worth to file a new bug report, if one doesn't exist already23:36
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Venemo_N950hmmm23:52
pixelgeek1hmmm?23:52
Venemo_N950Asus X101 makes me want a netbook for myself23:53
Venemo_N950what the heck is wrong with me?23:53
pixelgeek1They're nice23:53
pixelgeek1low profile23:53
pixelgeek1(Small HD though)23:53
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Venemo_N950it's VERY cheap, has an SSD, and it runs MeeGo23:54
pixelgeek1The ideal thing to keep on the bedside nightstand23:54
pixelgeek1Asus has integrated some nice extras too.23:55
pixelgeek1A music service23:55
pixelgeek1And an App store23:55
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