IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2011-08-31

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npmdoes the "meego 1.2.0.2" build cover tablet-UX or only Netbook? -- and where is "kernel-adaptation-pinetrail" ?01:06
npmhttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/updates/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/ -- no "adaptation pinetrail"01:07
npmwhereas other repos have ithttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.12.20110809.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-8.26.i586.rpm01:09
npmhttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.12.20110809.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-8.26.i586.rpm01:09
lcuk2npm, the pinetrail adaption is a new kernel01:10
lcuk2there are adaption kernels as required afaik?01:10
lcuk2npm, the tablet ux has always been preview and how it is progressing is anybodies guess01:11
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CosmoHill 23:30:21 up 640 days, 0 min,  0 users,  load average: 0.16, 0.04, 0.0101:30
CosmoHillhuzzar!01:30
berndhsall right01:32
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* npm finds http://download.meego.com/live/MeeGo:/1.2:/oss/standard/i586/kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-8.26.i586.rpm01:41
npmbut then again i'm aleady running that from kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-8.26.i58601:42
npmso is http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.12.20110809.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages the latest tablet UX 1.2?01:42
npm^^ thought i could upgrade to something better01:43
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zwrenchHow can I install apt-get on Meego?03:27
zwrenchI  upgraded from moblin and now there isn't apt-get03:28
pixelgeekzwrench: zypper?03:30
zwrenchwhat is zypper?03:30
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pixelgeeklike apt-get :)03:30
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zwrenchgarage isn't working for me03:31
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pixelgeekthere's not much there03:31
zwrenchok03:31
pixelgeekA lot of talk going on about how to populate the community app repos03:31
zwrenchcan zypper open any packages that apt-get can03:32
zwrenchlike libreoffice03:32
berndhsthere are a large number of home: repos03:32
zwrenchCan it open Debian packages03:33
berndhszwrench: no03:33
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berndhszypper opens rpm packages03:33
pixelgeekhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=1411003:34
pixelgeekI haven't tried but I bet you could zypper -install apt-get ...03:35
pixelgeekMaybe?03:35
berndhssure if you find a repo that supplies apt-get03:36
berndhsbut what for, pretty much anything available as .deb is also available as .rpm03:37
zwrenchis meego not based off of debian?03:38
berndhsno03:38
zwrenchI just tried to install Libreoffice and it didn't work03:39
berndhsmeego is its own rpm-based distro03:39
zwrenchcan someone link me to a useful guide to using zypper to install libreoffice or another comparable program?03:39
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zwrench_sorry I lost wifi temporarily03:46
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N1Nja_WTF is meego06:09
TSCHAKeeewho the fuck are you?06:11
TSCHAKeee;)06:11
TSCHAKeeeand yes, I can say that, given your wonderfully ascerbic entrance.06:11
N1Nja_... Delayed06:12
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N1Nja_Walawala06:14
N1Nja_TSCHAKeee: Who the FUCK are you?06:16
TSCHAKeeeN1Nja_: I am a regular here.06:16
N1Nja_Ah nvm06:16
N1Nja_So what is meego06:16
N1Nja_Linux distro?06:17
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reikalusikkahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo06:28
iekkumorning06:31
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Stskeepsmorn TSCHAKeee08:12
TSCHAKeeehey Stskeeps08:16
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Stskeepshow is it going?08:16
TSCHAKeeeit goes, am here doing family stuff with Lana...08:16
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Stskeepsmorn smoku08:26
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smoku'bry Stskeeps08:32
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dm8tbr'bry smoku i Stskeeps08:36
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biedromorning08:37
Alison_Chaikenhttp://thisismynext.com/2011/08/29/nokia-windows-phone-brand-poll/08:40
Alison_ChaikenI have some suggestions, but have a feeling Nokia is unlikely to adopt them.08:40
Alison_ChaikenHow about "Frankenfail"?08:40
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StskeepsOsbourne?08:42
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w00t_TwoTurkeys08:43
TonySHello, I need some help in regurards to N900, uboot, and MeeGo08:43
biedroAlison_Chaiken, lets see - from UX point of view wp7 phone is not that bd ;) maybe Nokia will get tons of money to invest back into meego08:43
Alison_Chaikenbiedro, there won't be even one MeeGo developer left at Nokia by then.    MS has already said, "We don't need any software from Nokia" and they will have bought Nokia outright by then.08:44
Alison_ChaikenOsbourne is good, Stskeeps!08:44
TonySCould anyone help me find a solution to this problem; http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=440008:45
dm8tbrTonyS: how did you end up with this?08:45
TonySHow do you mean, sir?08:46
dm8tbrTonyS: the images created by mic should have the right partition layout08:46
TonySI did not use that partition layout08:46
dm8tbrhow did you create that layout then?08:46
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TonySsfdisk08:47
TonySthen i used dd to flash the induival meego images onto the SD card's partitions08:47
TonySI know uBoot automatically looks for p3 for FAT images thus i left that, i just swapped p1 to p208:47
dm8tbrwell, you would not run into this problem if you'd just take the image and dd it over the whole card08:48
TonySI tried that at first08:48
TonySbut I had a few issues...08:48
TonyS1) The card was no longer readable by Maemo since p1 was EXT408:48
biedroAlison_Chaiken, :( sounds terrible08:48
TonyS2) The SD card was no longer useable by any windows PC08:49
Alison_Chaikenbiedro, lots of MeeGo devs may go to work on WP7 for all I know.   Or maybe WP7 on SeaRay will be a giant success . . .08:49
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dm8tbrTonyS: well you're in for some work then. among other things you need to change the kernel command line (probably in the uboot config)08:50
TonySSo I just need to know how to get it to point to p2 instead of p1... and I should be good to go (hopefully)08:50
TonySI was thinking a better solution would be boot.scr, however I know very little about uboot...08:52
TonySBy placing boot.scr into the FAT directory and having everything pointing in the right place, I believe it should find root in mmcblk1p208:53
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* slonopotamus wonders why meego isn't distributed as a rootfs tarball. forcing same partition layout on all random storage media it might be installed on is really weird.08:54
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TonySDoes any one have any ideas on how to solve my problem, I plan on loading NITDroid N12 onto p4 and then making an image of that to release to the Maemo community so they can try out NITDroid without losing their storage space...08:56
iekkuTonyS, are you sure you are on right channel, what comes to maemo questions..08:58
dm8tbrslonopotamus: that's what's happening for the N950 but it has a different boot sequence08:58
TonySHere is a copy of my partition table, just incase any of you were curious;08:58
TonyS   Device Boot Start     End   #cyls    #blocks   Id  System /dev/mmcblk1p1          0+   1161    1162-   9333733+   b  W95 FAT32 /dev/mmcblk1p2       1162    1683     522    4192965   83  Linux /dev/mmcblk1p3       1684    1687       4      32130    6  FAT16 /dev/mmcblk1p4       1688    1948     261    2096482+  83  Linux c08:58
dm8tbrthat's garbled, use pastebing, tnx08:58
TonySAs you could see I would have a lot of unpartioned space if I just installed MeeGo, now I have 9GB of storage and 2GB on p4 to load NITDroid...08:59
dm8tbrslonopotamus: the N950 has a own partition that's reserved for MeeGo CE and MOSLO exports it over USB so you can just dump everything there from tar and boot meego08:59
TonySI apologize, I am not very good at using IRC, I am using http://webchat.freenode.net/09:00
slonopotamusom-nom-nom, cylinders on flash card :)09:00
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TonySI tried getting an N950 from Nokia (I devlope applications for the impaired) but I never recieved any notice back.09:01
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TonySBut this recent issue has been such a thorn in my side, I don't know how to fix it... I am assuming boot.scr is the best bet but I don't know how to do it - and it looks as if no one else has the experence...09:03
TonySI tried something like this, but no go:09:03
TonySsetenv bootcmd 'mmc init; fatload mmc1 0:3 0x82000000 /uImage; fatload mmc1 0:3 0x83000000 /uInitrd; bootm 0x82000000 0x83000000' setenv bootargs 'root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait console=tty0 omapfb.vram=0:2M,1:2M,2:2M mtdoops.mtddev=2 nosplash' boot09:03
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slonopotamusTonyS: so, from somewhere it knows to boot from mmcblk0p1. find that place and replace it with whatever you need.09:04
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dm8tbrslonopotamus: for n900 the reason for distributing a dd'able image is exactly the problem TonyS is running into: there is about x-teen-thousand ways to make it not boot. the image just requires dd'ing and will boot just fine and most people put it on a separate card anyway09:04
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dm8tbrI maintain it is the kernel cmdline09:05
TonySWell that would HAVE to be on the FAT partition I believe09:05
TonySbut there is only 1 config file09:05
TonySconfig-2.6.37-24.2.DE-adaptation-n90009:06
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TonySand I already changed it from "root=/dev/mmcblk1p1" to "root=/dev/mmcblk1p2"09:08
TonySi mean 0p209:08
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TonyS(since it uboot i believe SD card is 0 instead of 1)09:09
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slonopotamushmm09:10
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TonySI fear the data to boot into p1 is in uImage09:11
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StskeepsTonyS: what exact issue are you having?09:12
japerryX-Fade: I'm looking to build the meego source files for OpenSUSE, was thinking of doing it within OBS. is this the best way to go about this?09:12
TonyShttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=440009:12
TonySIt's kicking my butt man... :(09:13
StskeepsTonyS: tell me what it says before that error09:14
Stskeepslike 2-3 lines09:14
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TonySlet me go reboot my N900 now09:15
TonySplease hold09:15
Stskeepsdon't worry, i'm here all day..09:16
TonyShaha, I just boot it with the slide open to start MeeGo09:16
TonySit's starting the kernel09:17
TonySbefore the error (I cannot scroll up)09:17
TonySWaiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p1. . .09:18
TonySmmc0: host does not support reading read only weitch. assuming write enable.09:18
TonySmmc0: new high speed SDHC card at address f84b09:19
TonySmmcblk0: mmc:f94b SD16G 14.9 GiB09:20
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TonyS mmcblk0: p1 p2 p3 p409:20
TonySthen the VFS error09:20
Stskeepsok09:20
Stskeepsand how are you booting the ernel?09:20
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TonySuBoot automatically looks in partition 3 (FAT) for uImage09:21
TonySi believe09:21
Stskeepsi think it looks for boot.scr in p1 first09:22
TonySthat is incorrect09:22
TonySit looks for boot.scr in p309:22
Stskeepsare you using uboot-pr13?09:23
TonyS2010-0609:23
TonySMaemo Kernel Power v4809:24
Stskeepsdon't know then09:24
Stskeepsbut:09:24
Stskeepshttp://pastie.org/245849709:24
TonySwhat's that?09:26
Stskeepsthat's the script that runs in uboot-pr1309:26
Stskeepscheck loadbootscript09:26
Stskeepsalso, for good measure, i'm not 100% sure we respect kernel command line atag :P09:27
TonySokay, I am just getting a little confuised - I don't know much about ubook09:27
TonyShow do I check loadbootscript?09:28
TonySRight now it is booting Maemo perfectly with the keyboard closed, it is TRYING to boot MeeGo with the keyboard open (unsuccessfuly), it found uImage, it just needs to look in p2 instead of p1 - and I don't know how to get it to do that...09:30
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Stskeepssee the paste09:32
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TonySStskeeps - I found something that might be of some help...09:35
TonyShttp://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=7283709:35
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TonyS@Stskeeps what do you think?09:36
Stskeepssounds around those lines09:37
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TonySIt is already doing everything in the pastie in reguards to booting the image09:42
TonyS "loaduimage=fatload mmc 0:3 ${loadaddr} uImage\0" - that is already being done.09:43
TonySbooting from SD card partion 3 (fat)09:44
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dm8tbryour kernel boots, that's not the problem09:45
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dm8tbrthe problem is that the kernel tries to mount the wrong partition09:46
dm8tbrthat info it takes from the kernel cmdline09:47
TonySokay, and how should I go about fixing that?09:47
dm8tbrI have never tried to change the cmdline on the n900 so I do not know if there is a override in place09:47
dm8tbrbut setting it from uboot would be my first try09:48
TonyS(I hope you don't tell me to recomplie the kernel)09:48
TonySusing boot.scr?09:48
dm8tbruboot has a command prompt09:49
dm8tbrverify it using that first09:49
dm8tbrif that works, try if saveenv will work09:49
dm8tbruboot is well documented IIRC so I guess you'll find generic hints in their docs09:49
TonySany tips for commands i should run at the command line?09:50
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dm8tbrprintenv09:50
dm8tbrfor the rest please kindly RTFM09:50
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TonySRTFM?09:51
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tomeuhi TonyS, you may find this article interesting: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html09:51
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dm8tbrhere's a link so you know where TFM resides http://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot/Documentation09:53
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TonySprintenv, everything looks good...09:55
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dm8tbrTonyS: so the kernel cmdline points to the right partition in env?09:59
TonySit points to 310:00
TonySand the kernel uImage has always boots10:00
TonySit just needs to look into p2 instead of p1 for the actual guts10:01
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TonySi just tried10:02
TonySsetenv bootargs 'root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait console=tty0 omapfb.vram=0:2M,1:2M,2:2M mtdoops.mtddev=2 nosplash'10:02
TonySthen boot10:02
TonySno luck....10:02
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ali1234TonyS: you can't change the command line10:04
ali1234with the current u-boot10:04
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ali1234because i made a bug10:04
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Stskeepsit's in our kernel or in uboot?10:05
ali1234in u-boot10:05
Stskeepsok10:05
ali1234no matter what you do you will always get the atags from nolo10:05
ali1234all of them10:05
Stskeepsah10:05
ali1234if you unset env atags then you get nothing due to the bug10:06
ali1234i think anyway10:06
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ali1234gnutoo: ping10:06
TonyShum...10:07
ali1234gnutoo: i am trying to port changes to u-boot mainline but it doesn't work properly10:07
ali1234it just crashes on init10:08
ali1234specifically it crashes on the very first time it tries to dereference a pointer10:08
TonySAli1234 - are you a devloper of uboot?10:09
ali1234sort of10:10
TonySDo you have any ideas on how to rememedy my problem?10:11
ali1234yes10:11
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TonySForgive my ignorance, this isn't really my field of expertist10:11
ali1234you need to get u-boot, apply n900 patches, then add a line to fix the bug10:12
TonySi have uboot10:12
TonySi don't know what n900 patches you speak of10:12
TonySand what is the line to fix the bug?10:12
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ali1234http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/10:13
ali1234apply all 4 patches10:13
ali1234then open bootm.c10:13
ali1234inside the last ifdef CONFIG_CHAINLOADER10:13
ali1234you have to put a line like PARAMS = bd->bi_boot_params;10:14
ali1234before the }10:14
ali1234then build u-boot and combined.bin and reflash10:14
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ali1234if you don't do this you get some random uninitialized memory instead of atags, if you don't use the nolo atags10:15
ali1234anyway i will release a fix for this soon10:15
Venemomorning MeeGoists! :)10:15
TonyShum10:16
TonySlet me try that out now10:16
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TonySSo just copy those 6 items over to my N900 and run the python file?10:17
ali1234no10:17
TonySshucks, it can never be that easy10:18
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ali1234start with git clone git://git.denx.de/u-boot.git10:19
TonySI am on windows right now...10:20
ali1234give up10:20
TonyS:(10:20
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TonySI am determined to do this... I have made it this far, I am betting the solution is much simplier than expected...10:21
ali1234it is simple10:22
ali1234if you know how to use git and a compiler10:22
TonySI am afraid I do not...10:23
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TonySAny other suggestions?10:25
ali1234just wait10:25
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TonySOkay... I had this great suicide note written out, I just deleted it and wrote, "damn  you uboot and meego" ;)10:26
lbtso familiar10:27
lbtI have a template now...10:27
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Stskeeps"i decided to kill myself due to: [meego|the economy|too much tangoing|too cold in helsinki|..]?10:28
tomeuwell, besides waiting and suicide, you can also invest some time installing linux and learning about git and building stuff10:28
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lbt decided to [kill myself|go on a rampage] due to: [meego|OBS|OBS|OBS|the economy|too much tangoing|too cold in helsinki|..]?10:29
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Stskeeps |BOSS|10:29
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arfollbut I don't want to go to the pub now10:29
arfollway too early10:30
* Stskeeps offers martinis10:30
iekku:D10:30
* arfoll takes 310:30
Ronksunow this feels like a proper fri.. nowait it's wednesday10:30
iekkuarfoll, it's never too early10:30
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arfolliekku: i slept 4hrs last night, i think it is too early ;-)10:30
iekkuarfoll, no, it's only cheaper that way ;)10:31
arfolllol10:31
arfollthis is ridiculous though10:31
TonySIt's half past midnight here in LA, you guys are lucky!10:31
RST38hlbt: Include "kill all people" into the firs tpair of brackets10:31
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Stskeepsarfoll: this looks like an unusual OBS down though10:31
aard_lbt: in case you kill yourself please take elop with you. I guess it'd even count as business trip10:31
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TonySBelieve it or not I own a marketing/advertising firm - I mess around with electronics for fun... however sometimes when it is like this, it is not so much fun.10:32
TonySIt looks like I bit off more than I can chew...10:32
lbtaard_: I'd rather do him on the rampage10:32
lbtOBS is a good defence10:32
arfollStskeeps: how so?10:32
arfolli mean apart from the fact it's wednesday10:33
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aard_'temporal insanity due to crappy code'?10:33
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dm8tbrarfoll: 'wednesday' nice one ;)10:34
lbtaard_: yup10:34
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TonySI wonder what Ali1234 is doing.10:37
ali1234eating my breakfast10:40
* Stskeeps ponders more coffe10:41
Stskeepse10:41
TonySI am still trying to ponder how to boot MeeGo!10:42
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Stskeepsmicrosd card ;)10:42
TonyShahaha10:43
Stskeepsseriously, that's how we test :P10:43
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TonySI have MeeGo on an SD card, I just changed the partitions and uboot is having trouble booting root10:45
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TonySAnyone still around?10:56
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iekkuTonyS, what sd are you using btw?10:58
TonySClass 6, 16MB10:58
TonySwhy do you ask?10:58
iekkuTonyS, there has been some problems with Class 1010:58
TonySClass 610:59
TonySover here10:59
TonySI had MeeGo running just fine when it was on partition 110:59
TonySbut thank you10:59
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TonySi'll make sure not to invest in a class 1010:59
TonySanytime soon10:59
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ali1234!! This breaks support for all arm boards !!11:11
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ali1234ok i think i just found the problem11:11
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BeineriX-Fade / lbt: all builds fail with "rpc timeout" :-(11:11
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TonyS???11:15
TonySwhat is the problem?11:15
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X-FadeBeineri: Building against core obs?11:16
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BeineriX-Fade: yeah, MeeGo.com:MeeGo:1.2:oss/standard11:16
X-FadeBeineri: That is because that OBS is down.11:17
Beineripitty :-(11:18
lbtBeineri: why are you building against core?11:18
Beinerito build/test against 1.2.0.x? :-)11:20
BeineriIs guess you suggest to use "MeeGo:1.2"?  Whose descriptions "This uses an import of 1.1.99.3.20110419.9 for now." is hopefully wrong11:21
TonySI guess no one else can help me out any further11:22
TonyS?11:22
StskeepsTonyS: it's a bit of a strong technical problem and ali1234 is working on the issue11:22
StskeepsTonyS: you'll have to wait a bit for a more friendlier approach :)11:23
TonySGotcha, I am gonna get a snack, I will be back - ali1234 - thank you so much for your assistance. :)11:23
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BeineriMeeGo:1.2/MeeGo_Trunk_standard ist IMHO also quite confusing naming....11:43
TonySBack11:45
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JaffaX-Fade: COBS, I'm getting "build successful" but "the setup of the repository is broken, build not possible". https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?arch_armv7el=1&defaults=0&project=home%3Ajaffa&repo_Harmattan=1&succeeded=112:01
X-FadeJaffa: Yes, there is an issue with the link. I'm looking at it.12:02
JaffaX-Fade: Cool, thanks12:06
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TonySIt is strange that u-boot is bilt in such a manner where it is so difficult to just change partitions...12:08
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dm8tbrX-Fade / Jaffa - core OBS came back around the time you talked about it12:26
X-Fadedm8tbr: Yes, I pinged someone who had access.12:27
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arfollhas anyone had trouble on exopc speaker output?12:43
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lcuk2arfoll, in what regard?12:44
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arfolllcuk2, cant seem to get an output on one12:44
Stskeepsamixer?12:45
arfollamixer definately has speaker set to on12:45
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arfollalsamixer shows speaker is not muted (and if i mute headphones it does mute them)12:45
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lcuk2arfoll, did you try rebooting..12:50
arfolllcuk2: yes ;-) i'm actually wondering wether the speakers on this exo are just dead12:52
lcuk2arfoll, use one of the meego usb images and boot from there12:53
lcuk2see if audio works then12:53
lcuk2at least you will know whether it is os level12:53
arfolltrue, speaker out works for you on live tablet images?12:53
lcuk2from what I recall it does on my ideapad12:54
lcuk2but somebody can speak up if it doesn't12:54
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arfollwell i'm dl'ing one now, we'll see if it works12:54
lcuk2good idea12:55
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lcuk2visionplus.fi looks interesting13:16
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TonySis ali1234 still here?13:19
ali1234yes?13:19
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TonySHey ali1234, any idea on how to fix my issue?13:25
ali1234yes, i told you already13:25
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TonySApply those patches?13:26
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TonySBut I have to compile them first13:26
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* lcuk carries on looking at bug 2141613:30
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21416 nor, Undecided, ---, rusty.lynch, NEW, [CE] App launcher in landscape n900 is odd13:30
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TonySAli1234 - thank you so much for your information! Out of curosity when do you plan on updating uboot?13:39
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lcukfocus13:43
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Stskeepstuiooa13:46
ScriptRipperStskeeps, do you see in your logfiles also the issue now with the accelerator patches13:46
ScriptRipperthat rpm-x86 does not get installed ?13:47
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ScriptRipperlooks like install order has changed13:47
lcukStskeeps, meaning?13:47
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ScriptRipperhi lcuk13:50
lcukhi ScriptRipper, you work on obs related things I recall?13:51
ScriptRipperyes, I am one of the OBS developers13:51
lcuka very nice system once the learning curve has been mastered!13:52
ScriptRipperand I did also implement the cross toolchain for OBS in MeeGo13:52
ScriptRipperand yes, OBS is a monster13:52
ScriptRipperbut I you found a way to implement your need13:52
ScriptRipperthen it starts to get fun for more13:53
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ScriptRipperproblem is not well deocumented13:53
lcukScriptRipper, sure, documentation helps but also having people using it and helping each other is big part too13:53
ScriptRipperbut that is lack of resources13:54
ScriptRippermostly13:54
ScriptRipperand there you have Adrian, me and the others13:54
ScriptRipperand they really help you13:55
lcukyeah ScriptRipper its good we have a large number of devs building on the obs for meego/harmattan13:55
ScriptRipperwe do also not have the burocracy of lets say MeeGo13:55
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lcukwell that is the same anywhere and can be modified13:56
ScriptRipperwhere I sometimes have the feeling the devels hide behind some tools like bugzilla and behind processes13:56
ScriptRipperbut that might be due to the size and number of people also13:57
lcukScriptRipper, the obs has been great and flexible at building packages required for the -ce :)13:57
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ScriptRipperit should, of course, otherwise you can beat us :)13:57
lcukwith the more flexible integration and focus it has been easier to get patches and fixes tested and integrated13:58
lcuknahh no beatings on wednesdays13:58
ScriptRipperfor me OBS is great because it makes all the FOSS packages get some life and you see where they are13:59
lcukScriptRipper, I am really interested in the BOSS processes built up around it13:59
RST38hWhat is "getting a life" with respect to a software package?13:59
ScriptRippera revision control system with source is just passive13:59
lcukfollowing #meego-boss is really useful14:00
ScriptRipperbut building it and testing it you get a feeling how far it is14:00
lcukbbiab14:00
ScriptRipperwhat is also interesting is the packaging: you see how a package really works14:01
ScriptRipperif you check out a source tree, you know nothing14:01
ScriptRipperif you read the README how to build and install it14:02
ScriptRipperyou see just a very small bit of it14:02
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ScriptRipperso its the control over things that makes OBS so useful14:02
ScriptRipperand the documentary character of 100 K packaged sources14:03
StskeepsScriptRipper: looking14:03
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ScriptRipperStskeeps, I had just taken small pkg,  e.g. acl14:07
ScriptRipperand in the end of the pkg install section14:07
ScriptRipperfor my rebuild of 1.2.0 with accelerator patches14:07
Stskeepshttp://monster.tspre.org:2080/package/rawlog?arch=armv7el&package=acl&project=Mer%3ATrunk%3ABase%3Aarmv7l&repository=standard14:08
Stskeepsseems to work for me14:08
Stskeeps(that's 1.3, though)14:08
ScriptRipperI get the warning14:08
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Stskeepswhat warning?14:08
iekkuresolved as forkedforme14:08
iekkuwait what?14:09
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ScriptRipperinstalling rpm-x86-arm-4.8.1-9.114:09
ScriptRipper/bin/rpm.orig-arm already present - skipping.14:09
ScriptRipper/usr/bin/rpm2cpio.orig-arm already present - skipping.14:09
StskeepsScriptRipper: that's fine14:09
StskeepsScriptRipper: check if /bin/rpm is x86 binary in chroot?14:09
ScriptRipperis rpm then ARM or x86 ?14:09
ScriptRipperI do14:09
Stskeepsthe installation of rpm-x86 is a bit mysterious14:10
ScriptRipperI know it, its not to break the rpm db14:12
ScriptRipperyou are right14:13
ScriptRipper> file ./usr/bin/rpmbuild ./bin/rpm14:13
ScriptRipper./usr/bin/rpmbuild: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.25, stripped14:13
ScriptRipper./bin/rpm:          ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.25, stripped14:13
ScriptRipperit was just the feeling its slow14:13
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ScriptRipperbut it is slow on big packages14:13
ScriptRipperanyway14:14
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lcukScriptRipper, kyb3R has been producing some stats graphs of ML interactions14:14
lcukis there a way to get a month by month view of obs utilisation across the meegosphere?14:14
lcukcommits/builds etc14:14
lcuksince I know it has been busier and busier of late14:15
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ScriptRipperthere is api for these data14:15
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ScriptRipperand the monitoring page of OBS uses this statistics api14:15
ScriptRipperso you can also program an own tool for more advanced applications14:15
lcukScriptRipper, from what I recall the stats are very recent periods, is the more longterm data in the api?14:16
ScriptRipperstatistics, like build utilization, are stored at least for a month14:16
lcukkyb3R, discuss on here then!14:17
ScriptRippere.g. nr. of events, nr. of idle and busy workers14:17
ScriptRippernr. of pkgs in build queue14:17
lcukScriptRipper, important to find best utilisation of those workers too14:17
ScriptRipperdo you guys know ruby on rails ?14:18
lcuknot personally14:18
ScriptRipperthen I can point you to some code14:18
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kyb3Rah, obs stats here :)14:18
ScriptRipperin the current WebUI14:18
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lcukthiago, re yesterdays question about appup things, there is a tweetup event in London this evening.14:37
lcukLast call for attendees at the 2nd Gen Core #IntelTweetUp! Demos, drinks, giveaways and much more at Soho Sq this evening. RSVP @IntelUK    http://twitter.com/#!/IntelUK/status/10884666013372006414:37
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Venemodoes MeeGo run on OMAP4?14:38
Stskeepsyes14:38
VenemoI recall there being a bug about inavailability of hardfp OMAP4 drivers14:39
Stskeepsright14:39
Stskeepsdoesn't meant it doesn't run14:39
Stskeeps:P14:39
Venemolol14:39
Venemoso it runs, just doesn't work? or how would you characterize it? :P14:39
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Stskeepsyou can do software rendering..14:39
Stskeeps:P14:39
lcukis the cortex a9 an omap4?14:39
StskeepsScriptRipper: btw, if you ever get asked to build 1.3 with softfp, trust me on this one, you'll want to ask me about my build :P it was a nightmare getting from 1.2 to 1.314:40
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Venemolcuk, yes, afaik14:40
lcukStskeeps, performance of software rendering14:40
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lcukhow does it keepup14:41
lcukthanks Venemo14:41
lcukand hi \o14:41
Venemohi lcuk :)14:41
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ScriptRipperStskeeps: I have also cpio-x86 and m4-x8614:43
lcukdoes anybody know how well does steelrat works on lower powered hardware?14:43
VenemoI was pondering whether I could run MeeGo if I bought an Archos G9 tablet. obviously, I don't exactly want software rendering when there is graphics hardware present14:43
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StskeepsScriptRipper: i'd really like OBS to have a function where you can do like.. "Install this package if this package is installed"14:44
StskeepsSubstitute: is too invasive14:44
ScriptRipperyes14:44
ScriptRipperdo you think we should put those two in ?14:44
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Stskeepsyes, it can probably help some things14:45
Stskeepsm4 for sure14:45
Stskeepsautoconf stalls there very often14:45
ScriptRipperI put them into meego.com OBS, and then you change your base build project and try them out14:46
Stskeepsok14:46
ScriptRipperwhen prjconf is fine, we can submit it to Trunk14:46
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Stskeepsit's the same problem as with doxygen- i think14:47
Stskeepsthat m4 / cpio isn't part of Support/Keep/Requires is it?14:47
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lcukVenemo, bug 17570 is worth ccing to14:48
ScriptRipperI had solved it at the moment by putting them into the preinstalled list14:48
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17570 nor, Undecided, ---, ibrahim, NEW, Lack of hardfp compiled graphics drivers from TI, Qualcomm, nVidia, etc14:48
Venemolcuk, yeah, that's what I was talking about14:48
ScriptRipperhey, is ibrahim == Ibrahim Hadid ?14:48
ScriptRipperthis is a good one14:49
Stskeepsyeah, but i think assignee is wrong14:49
Stskeepsit's more like a "project problem"14:49
Venemowell, seems that this bug hasn't been fixed in months.14:49
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lcukVenemo, some drivers are coming eg for trimslice14:50
lcuk--- Comment #13 from vgrade <martinbrook@ntlworld.com> 2011-08-31 11:46:02 UTC ---14:50
lcuknvidia are now providing via compulab trimslice community hardfp drivers for14:50
lcuktegra 2.14:50
StskeepsScriptRipper: do you know if baselibs.conf can take macros?14:50
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StskeepsScriptRipper: like %{ix86}14:50
Venemolcuk, yeah, unfortunately Tegra 2 is not OMAP414:50
lcukVenemo, some momentum in the right direction is good14:50
StskeepsScriptRipper: i tried to change meego default target to i686 yesterday and well, it naturally broke baselibs.conf with 'arch i586' ..14:51
Venemoagreed.14:51
Venemowhat is the situation for OMAP3? do we have hardfp drivers there?14:51
Stskeepsfor n90014:51
Venemoonly?14:51
ScriptRipperStskeeps: there is I think some old croft in build script that prevents "i686"14:51
Stskeepswell, it can work on others14:51
StskeepsScriptRipper: nah, i had i686 working but cross helpers broke totally14:52
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ScriptRipperI think the way to do this is: call it still i586, but change the rpm arch and compiler flags14:53
Stskeepsso i wanted to take 'arch i586' -> 'arch %{ix86} ..14:53
ScriptRippersure14:53
RST38hClose bug 17570 with WONTFIX?14:53
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17570 nor, Undecided, ---, jerry.yu, NEW, Lack of hardfp compiled graphics drivers from TI, Qualcomm, nVidia, etc14:53
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ScriptRipperi check for macro inside baselibs.conf14:54
Stskeepsok14:54
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ScriptRipperStskeeps we talk about accelerators ?14:57
ScriptRipperwhy not put filter into prjconf for them ?14:58
StskeepsScriptRipper: i run into i686.dontuse.rpm because the arch i586 line doesn't trigger14:58
ScriptRipperor you can do reg exps inside baselibs.conf14:58
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thiagolcuk: tonight is a little too short notice...15:03
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lcukn900heh thiago yeah i know, just spotted it15:04
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lcukn900thiago if we can get the tablet ux ontop of wayland with a nice shiny qt5 will that improve battery life?15:05
lcukn900or will we just find more apps to run in parallel to use same!15:05
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thiagolcukn900: a little, yes15:07
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lcukthiago, do the qt guys keep track of all the performance optimisations in a log somewhere?15:08
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thiagolcuk: no16:04
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BeineriStskeeps: you did rebuild 1.3 with softfp?16:16
StskeepsBeineri: i have a sub-set of meego core with softfp16:16
BeineriStskeeps: where? how? :-)16:16
StskeepsBeineri: how = something i will tell my therapist eventually16:16
Beineri/nick Stskeeps_therapist16:17
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Stskeepswhere, http://monster.tspre.org:2080/project/show?project=Mer%3ATrunk%3ABase:armv7l - still working on distribution methods16:17
Stskeepskeep in mind, not compliant16:17
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BeineriStskeeps: so the pain included to set your own OBS, to bootstrap and so on?16:20
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StskeepsBeineri: right16:20
StskeepsBeineri: but also fighting with util-linux-ng -> util-linux rename and other things16:20
StskeepsBeineri: working on a meego-derived minimal core for running qml and html5 stuff16:20
BeineriStskeeps: and you had 1.2 final softp before? that was easier?16:20
StskeepsBeineri: i interrupted my 1.2 final softfp build as it just took too long on my hw :P16:21
Stskeeps1400 packages and no build optimizations16:21
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BeineriStskeeps: you don't feel like documentating or blogging about ? -)16:22
StskeepsBeineri: i will eventually start blogging about this stuff, but i do plan to start distributing these things :P16:22
* CosmoHill has just been on the phone with a job company and is having his details forwarded to an employer :)16:22
Stskeepsso people can use them for their work and prototyping16:22
StskeepsBeineri: what's your interest, out of curiousity?16:22
BeineriStskeeps: accelerated qml demos...16:23
Beineriand kde active/contour...16:23
StskeepsBeineri: alright16:23
StskeepsBeineri: my plan is to also make an armv6 build and non-ssse3 for non-atom devices16:24
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Beineri... for pandaboard16:24
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Stskeepsright16:25
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StskeepsBeineri: i'll keep you in the loop i guess16:25
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StskeepsBeineri: goal is a 400 source package strong core with no UX'es or hardware adaptation, those are seperate projects on top16:25
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, I heard the name 'Mer' today, as a designation for some stripped-down MeeGo16:26
StskeepsVenemo_N950: right16:26
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, can you enlighten me about this?16:26
lcukn900so where does the hardware adaption come from stskeeps?16:26
Stskeepslcukn900: at first, grabbing packages16:26
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, if it will have Qt and run QML, why do you call it stripped-down?16:27
lcukn900well looking at n900 adaption will the mods made there be usable?16:27
StskeepsVenemo_N950: it's fairly simple, it's a design proposal towards meego 2.0 with different focus and taking some freedoms main meego project can't do in 1.x line, to encourage involvement and experimentation and improving vendor-product relationships/procedures16:28
StskeepsVenemo_N950: 1400 packages in meego trunk vs 40016:28
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, I see. 400 is much less indeed16:28
lcukn900that 1400 includes what extra things though?16:28
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, but if it can run QML, all we need is some nice QML UX and we can have a very nice OS16:29
StskeepsVenemo_N950: perfect OS for a interactive busstop16:29
Stskeepslcukn900: netbook UX, most of gnome stack, handset ux, meego tablet ux.. a lot of tools16:29
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, I have always been wondering how much of an effort it would take to create one's own UX.16:30
lcukn900so it is meego core essentially16:30
Stskeepsyeah, but with some things stripped out / less reliant on x11, cutting some dependancies etc16:30
lcukn900venemo a lot of work!16:30
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, seems that what Intel did with meego-ux, they did very fast16:30
Stskeepsright16:30
lcukn900stskeeps and what device platform level is this for?16:30
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Venemo_N950lcukn900, and with qml?16:31
Stskeepslcukn900: define device platform level16:31
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lcukn900well helpful to which spec devices16:31
Stskeepsanything that can bear it16:32
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, so, will your stuff run eg. on the N900? with hw accelerated qml?16:32
StskeepsVenemo_N950: yes16:32
lcukn900venemo it is possible to gather together a team and produce a set of apps to spec16:32
lcukn900like intel have done16:32
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, so if someone steps up and designs a nice UX, we could finally have something nice MeeGo-based on N90016:32
StskeepsVenemo_N950: did you see my qml components video?16:33
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lcukn900hopefully the tablet ux will be advancing beyond the preview ux16:33
StskeepsVenemo_N950: blip.tv/carsten-munk/qt-components-harmattan-on-n900-meego-1-3-based-550844716:33
Stskeepshttp://blip.tv/carsten-munk/qt-components-harmattan-on-n900-meego-1-3-based-550844716:33
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, would prefer not to view those on my N95016:33
Stskeepsk16:33
Stskeepssee it when home then16:33
Venemo_N950k16:34
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lcukn900stskeeps so what prevents doing this in meego proper16:35
Stskeepslcukn900: too much red tape to cut, it's better to show up with something that works and patches16:36
lcukn900we seem to be agile and flexible on the -ce team16:36
javispedroStskeeps: is that theme included?16:36
Stskeepsjavispedro: using lgpl stuff only16:37
javispedroooh :)16:38
Stskeepsi'm not 100% on components itself16:38
CosmoHilljavispedro: do you play openttd?16:38
javispedroCosmoHill: yep16:38
lcukStskeeps, in what way will this not be compliant16:38
javispedroStskeeps: you mean MTF is used?16:39
Stskeepsjavispedro: no mtf included16:39
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Stskeepslcuk: various reasons, such as me not having entre compliance set16:39
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lcukbut if those packages are happily buildable now and already in the core16:40
javispedrosurprised so much of the artwork/animations/etc is open in the Harmattan Qt Components, that is quite a reason to use them.16:40
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timophStskeeps: how much "useless" stuff the compliance set has for your needs? (Trying to get a picture on what kind of stuff it requires to ship nowadays)16:42
Stskeepstimoph: the problem isn't always compliance stuff but what it needs underneath that16:42
Stskeepshttp://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/package-groups/blobs/master/patterns/compliance.yaml16:42
* Jaffa likes the idea of a "Compliance Compatibility" package alongside the minimal Qt-booting core.16:43
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lcuk++ Jaffa16:43
timophyep16:43
Stskeepsmy personal goal is "up to qt, qt mobility" at the moment16:43
w00t_qtcontacts-tracker? *snerk*16:43
w00t_I think someone forgot to update that16:43
JaffaGives separate projects to "maintain a fast booting Qt-based Linux core" and "maintain a set of packages needed to build a MeeGo Compliant OS"16:44
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JaffaVendors may want the former and not the latter. But even if they do want the latter, they're different skill sets. Too much is grey and fuzzy in the current project: there's an enormous Core and then some WGs and RE16:44
* timoph nods16:45
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* Jaffa considers this a "Blueprint for MeeGo"16:48
Stskeepsi'd like to somehow adapt the yocto like governance, it is much more "down to the working floor"16:49
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Stskeepsand encouraging discussion in the open16:49
berndhsmaybe express governance in terms of how things get done, as opposed to who has what authority ?16:50
lcukwell it does not handle everything, as you say, it is a minimal subset16:50
lcukJaffa, I would like to see a meego based more around building blocks so that components could be added as required16:53
lcuk"vendor, we are making a phone": right add the phone set16:54
lcuklike a nice simple shopping list16:54
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Venemo_N950ey16:55
Venemo_N950sorry, I've just noticed that my N950 has dropped the connection again16:55
Jaffalcuk: Agreed, that's what I'm trying to propose. Useful blocks with clear delineations and responsibilities. "Core" - boot (quickly), provide a graphical framework, Qt & Qt Mobility; "N900 h/w adaptation" - provide config files and additional package needed to get Core running on N900. "UX#1" - provide a QML-based whizzy user interface & Components.16:55
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Venemo_N950Jaffa, yeah, this sounds sane16:56
lcukJaffa, basically package level integration and sharing - which is what meego is now16:56
lcukthe compliance.yaml file that stskeeps posted earlier shows it is possible16:57
lcukand we can already generate .ks images to devices and spec as required etc16:57
lcukif that were not possible, none of the previous communityedition would have been possible16:58
lcuksince the -CE does not include all the netbook stuff16:58
lcukand vice versa16:58
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Jaffalcuk: We're agreeing, aren't we?16:59
lcukthe 1400 packages being mentioned are the complete set and I do not think there is an image created with all on16:59
lcukyes16:59
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lcukwe have commercial vendors shipping meego netbook builds now, Stskeeps has shown that a meego image can be created using subset - he did not have to step outside the project to do it either17:00
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Jaffalcuk: You know what Stskeeps is calling his subset? What do you mean by "outside the project" mean? What do you mean by "the project", for that matter.17:12
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Jaffalcuk: Because, from where I'm sitting, the project has no leadership; no governance; no open discussion or roadmap and no desire (or ability) to address these problems.17:12
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w00t_yeah, meego-architecture is a great example of that17:14
w00t_I'm tempted to reply to mikhas' post with "echo, echo, echo ..."17:14
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Jaffaw00t_: Indeed :-(17:15
JaffaSomeone who's trying to actively get involved with contributing a valuable component to the MeeGo Core and no response. I'm *guessing* it's that no-one feels empowered to say "yes", rather than a total lack of interest.17:16
w00t_in fact, let me do exactly that17:16
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njozwiakhi- has anyone here setup an automount system on their MeeGo device?17:19
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lcukJaffa, as a 2.0 restructuring I can see it effectively working17:25
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lcukbut we have to proposition it towards actively improving matters and inclusive of the vendors17:26
lcukStskeeps has suggested one very sensible starting point17:26
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lcukand w00t_ - the maliit packages should have been in core from day117:29
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lcuksince input is one of the absolute requirements for most computers :P17:29
Jaffalcuk: How is Stskeeps' proposal going to work "inside the project"?17:30
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Jaffalcuk: My suggestion is for how one takes Stskeeps' work, puts it alongside the project and shows how the project *should* be run. As has been pointed out, code speaks louder than blog posts - the same works for organisations as well.17:31
lcukindeed it does17:31
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lcukbut the code exists17:31
lcukin the current obs17:31
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JaffaYes, and the project around it doesn't.17:32
lcukhow do we show the other groups how to build from it17:32
lcukto reshape meego on the fly17:32
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JaffaThat's what I'm proposing. Copying Stskeeps' example for how to have a series of smaller projects which cooperate in delivering something like CE.17:32
lcukso that the next latest netbook release (for instance) can be built from this17:32
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lcukor when we get a real tablet-ux it can be built from it17:33
Jaffalcuk: Who are you going to email and say "do what Stskeeps has done"? How are you going to describe *what* he's done?17:33
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lcukin part we are doing it now17:33
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lcukwe are asking the questions and getting the feedback required17:34
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lcukJaffa, the communityedition is already being built on these sorts of principles17:35
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lcukJaffa, remember when meego was first seen on our devices?  it was x11 console prompt only17:37
lcukno ux or anything17:37
lcuklast week on the 1.3 branch it was the same :D17:38
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Stskeepswasn't with our good will it only was an xterm17:38
Stskeeps:P17:38
Stskeepswe had duihome working, working very well17:39
lcuk*have17:39
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Jaffalcuk: I suspect you've got a better working knowledge of all the different teams, projects and people who need to be educated than I then.17:39
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Jaffalcuk: To me, the MeeGo project - with some exceptions - is an amorphous black box which does not respond to external input.17:39
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Jaffalcuk: I also think that your example of CE is not considered "MeeGo" proper based on some of the communication about "no, we're not a fork; we're a reference vendor" communications which are trying to dampen FUD coming from others closer to Core17:40
lcukJaffa, agreed17:41
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lcukJaffa, every ux in meego is technically a fork17:43
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gnutoo[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~/quit17:58
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Stskeepsfailure to quit17:59
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* Venemo_N950 wants new software for N95018:01
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berndhsi just want moslo for n950, that's enough for now :)18:02
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slaineCan someone explain the upcoming Intel Atom processor roadmap, I'm slightly confused18:18
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lcukslaine, the cedar trail devices you mean?18:19
slaineThe Atom Z6xx CPU's are the Oaktrail platforms right ? And they include that PowerVR GPU in the CPU housing, much like the Pinetrail includes an i915 derivative18:19
arfollslaine, you got a link to that roadmap?18:20
CosmoHillhey slaine18:20
slaineluck, Well, that's the next question, What's CedarTrail18:20
slaineHey CosmoHill18:20
lcukcedartrail is the 32nm process builds18:20
lcukmuch lower power consumption etc18:20
slaineIs CedarTrail the next iteration of the Atom Z600 processors line, i.e. will it have the PowerVR GPU18:20
arfollslaine, Z6xx i think thats the IVI stuff (crossville northville) - not oaktrail (but does have powervr like poulsbo SGX535)18:20
lcukon the news snippets I have read ability to get 10hours per charge is one goal18:20
slainearfoll: From Wikipedia, Lincroft is the Atom Z600 and included in the "Oaktrail" platform, which is a SoC18:21
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slaineIt indicates that CedarTrail-M is the follow on from Pinetrail but including the same PowerVR GPU thats on the Oaktrail platform18:22
tomeubtw, anybody knows if there's any truth to the rumours that intel is working on opening the source of the SGX drivers they use?18:23
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slainetomeu: if it's true, then I'm sure the people working on it know ;)18:23
lcuknot sure but open graphics are welcomed18:23
Venemo_N950++18:24
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slaineI know Alan Cosx has gotten KMS support in upstream for CedarTrail18:24
slaineCox18:24
Stskeepstomeu: heh, i'd say fat chance18:24
tomeuwell, referring to the GL stuf18:24
Stskeepsbut i might be surprised18:24
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arfolli'm with Stskeeps18:24
lcukslaine, is that on kernel 3.0?18:25
Venemo_N950'fat chance'?18:25
slainelcuk: some in 3.0 but I think most of it landed for 3.118:25
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slaineGives you a basic frame buffer device, no backend acceleration, but supposedly this new architecture that tomeu is talking about is built off it18:26
slaineaccording to Phoronix posts anyway, so not entirely believable18:26
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Venemo_N950heh18:26
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Venemo_N950btw, why does Intel use PowerVR instead of their own stuff?18:28
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lcukslaine, that would be quite a good starting point18:29
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slaineVenemo_N950: Yes, hence the problems18:30
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Venemo_N950slaine, the question is why?18:31
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slaineVenemo_N950: Low Power GPU, something Intel didn't have18:31
Venemo_N950I thought theirs are low-power too18:32
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slaineVenemo_N950: which ones ?18:32
slaineTheir SandyBridge ones etc. are not low power18:33
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Venemo_N950really? meh.18:34
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slaineVenemo_N950: Basically they licensed the SGX535 core for Moorestown (the dreaded GMA500 chipset)18:36
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slaineThey've a newer revision of that core licensed on the Oaktrail platform SoC (Atom Z6xx cpu's)18:36
slaineWhat I'm not clear on is if that GPU core is also going to get used on CedarTrail, it looks like Yes, which means bad things for us18:37
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lcukslaine, whilst not perfect, continuing to use sgx is more of a problem why?18:40
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slainebinary driver blobs18:40
arfolllcuk: the problem is the SGX535 wasnt used just in moorestown, and actually on moorestown the driver is incompatible with the ce4100 one or the poulsbo ones18:41
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arfollbut we could hope that the more chips start using it, the better support is18:41
lcukthat makes it clearer arfoll18:42
* lcuk would like to do research on graphics chips one day :)18:42
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lcukI remember when javispedro was attempting to get gles working on the n90018:42
lcukand he had a single triangle :D18:42
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javispedrothose were the times, eh? :)18:43
lcukheh18:44
lcukspeaking of rendering and graphics18:44
lcukone of the best qt upgrades I have seen is wrt text rendering18:44
lcukhttp://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/07/15/text-rendering-in-the-qml-scene-graph/18:44
lcuka good read for anybody interested :)18:44
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VenemoStskeeps, can you send me those links now?19:30
Stskeepshttp://blip.tv/carsten-munk/qt-components-harmattan-on-n900-meego-1-3-based-550844719:32
mcfrisk_Hello, does anyone know why meego has different source packages for kernel and kernel-headers?19:34
Venemothx Stskeeps19:34
Stskeepsmcfrisk_: kernel-headers basically defines the common kernel api19:34
VenemoStskeeps, hey, this seems to be performing very nicely19:34
Stskeepsmcfrisk_: kernel (or adaptation kernels) has to be that version or higher19:35
VenemoStskeeps, sheets are buggy...?19:35
mcfrisk_ok, just feels odd that they come from different source package which are kept in sync behind the curtains..19:35
StskeepsVenemo: i just tapped the wrong way i think19:36
Venemomhm19:36
Venemois this Mer?19:36
Stskeepsno, meego 1.319:37
Venemoah.19:37
Stskeepsqt 4.8 really helps matters19:37
Venemodoes it perform that much better?19:38
Stskeepsseems so19:38
Venemo:)19:38
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StskeepsScriptRipper: OK, i never fully understood CBinstall:, is it like for native workers, let's say, OBS worker on MIPS hardware?20:07
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ScriptRipperCBinstall: is executed on workers that can run x86 + the target arch, e.g. x86 + arm or x86 + mips20:13
ScriptRipperand other wise skipped20:13
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ScriptRipperso that we can have one single prjconf for native workers or "dual workers"20:13
ScriptRipperthats why meego has for ARM cross + native compilers20:14
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Stskeepsah20:15
Stskeepsyes, that makes sense20:15
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Stskeepsin my minimal core i was planning on moving the cross part of prjconf into the sub-ports20:15
Stskeepsas well20:15
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ScriptRippere.g. MeeGo ARM fully works on: only native machines20:16
ScriptRipperfor ARM + x86 with emulator + cross toolchain20:16
ScriptRipperthat was the idea behind it20:16
Stskeepshow does it work anyway? workers can be on other things than opensuse?20:16
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ScriptRipperyes. you can install worker on beagleboard and it works20:16
Stskeepsinteresting20:17
ScriptRipperor you can install osc + build on beagleboard20:17
ScriptRipperand local build works20:17
ScriptRipperthat was the idea20:17
Stskeepsyes, that makes sense20:17
ScriptRipperso worker with QEMU is detected and says: i can do also x86, and then CBinstall is executed20:18
ScriptRipperits like VMinstall:20:18
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Stskeepsyes20:18
ScriptRipperVMinstall: is only executed in the worker if worker runs on Virtual Machine20:18
Stskeepsi kind of wonder what happened to the meego MIPS port20:19
ScriptRipperno idea. anyway, I have the QEMU support for MIPS working good enough20:19
Stskeepsok20:19
ScriptRipperso we can build Debian pkgs for MIPS20:19
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Stskeepsqemu-mips, like qemu-arm?20:20
ScriptRipperyes20:20
Stskeepscool20:20
ScriptRipperits now fixed good enough20:20
ScriptRipperthat you can run chroot with OBS20:20
ScriptRippernot sure how good it would perform with complete MeeGo pkgs20:20
ScriptRippere.g. 1400 of them20:20
Stskeepsi guess we could do a try with my subset20:21
ScriptRipperbut basic OBS testsuite for ppc 32 abi 32 + mips passes20:21
Stskeepsi sent a mail to the guy who i think did a port20:21
ScriptRipperyes, would be interesting to try it20:21
ScriptRipperI check Debian Sid20:21
ScriptRippere.g. relatively recent versions of Debian with MIPS20:22
Stskeeps:nod:20:22
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Stskeepsbesides my wireless routers i don't think i own any MIPS hw20:22
dm8tbrStskeeps: I guess we are getting more and more possible fields for our 'research obs'? :)20:23
dm8tbrI still think meego could also be interesting for non-UI embedded devices20:23
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* dm8tbr had this wild idea of router-UX at some point (web interface)20:23
ScriptRipperbasic compilation with Debian 6.0 and Sid on MIPS 32 works here20:24
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ScriptRippernot sure what happens when we do 1400 meego pkgs20:24
ScriptRipperwe can start with the 200 base build pkgs20:25
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ScriptRipperand cross comp saves a lot of issues20:25
Stskeepsyeah20:26
ScriptRipperI hope the port is not mips n32 or so20:27
ScriptRipperI think QEMU has problem there20:27
Stskeepsphilosophical discussion: does qml components belong in a core?20:28
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berndhsStskeeps: i think the standard ones do, otherwise Qt doesn't belong in the core either20:29
lcukberndhs, from a stability perspective should they be there at first revision?20:29
berndhshave to be specific about which components20:30
berndhsI think the harmattan collection, and the tablet-ux collection and that, do not belong in core20:30
Stskeeps.. what others are there?20:30
berndhsonly the stuff that ships with QtQuick on all platforms20:30
Stskeepsyou mean nothing? :P20:30
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berndhsI mean the ones you get when you install Qt20:31
berndhsbare bones stuff, ListView, PinchArea, that type of stuff20:31
berndhsotherwise you are being platform specific20:31
berndhsphilosophically speaking :)20:32
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lcukStskeeps, and now you start to see where core has its issues :P20:33
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Stskeepsi still wonder how much effort it would truly be to build something around http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/10/qml-components-for-desktop/ for netbook20:37
lcukStskeeps, I guess that would fall initially around the community experimentation20:38
berndhsone would hope that Qt will soon include a reasonable set of components of course20:38
Stskeepsi'm fairly impressed with the harmattan ones20:38
berndhsi haven't looked closely at the harmattan ones, because they're only harmattan20:38
lcukfor now berndhs20:39
lcukI am also impressed20:39
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lcukthey have matured quite well20:39
berndhsyes until Qt decides what they will do20:39
lcukbut then again, the intel tablet ux ones can be doing same maturity20:39
berndhsmaybe this will be a moot issue with Qt520:39
lcuki tried finding a class tree comparison20:40
lcukand pondered generating one, just to see where the differences are20:40
lcukit would certainly be hard work to unify them20:40
lcukbut beneficial in qml adoption20:40
w00t_berndhs: the way things are heading, for integrating with specific platforms, you'll probably have to use specific components20:41
w00t_on mobile, at least20:41
berndhsw00t_: that's proably true, and also bad news20:41
Stskeepsbbl badminton20:41
w00t_there is also a 'custom' set of components that provide an identical API and L&F on all platforms, but it also isn't native20:41
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lcukit does muddy the developer story20:41
lcukare both sets of components runnable on same machine20:42
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lcukwith the end result that it wouldn't matter20:42
lcuktablet ux using its set and running apps using qt components20:42
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w00t_berndhs: http://achipa.blogspot.com/2011/07/qt-components-story-of-ugly-qwidgetling.html describes part of the story, I should probably write up information about the unified set and the discussions that happened in berlin during the contributors conference20:42
w00t_fwiw I used to think it was bad news too, but honestly, after the talks in berlin, I'm almost convinced20:43
berndhsI know people are supposed to give up the idea that an application can run on 2 platforms20:43
w00t_no20:43
w00t_that the same *UI* can run on two platforms20:44
berndhsright20:44
berndhsi don't want to re-code the UI either, just because some company has decided on a particular shade of blue20:44
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w00t_it's not 'shade of blue'20:45
w00t_it's the completely different interaction ideas, and so on, and so forth20:45
berndhsif 3 companies offer phones of screen sizes 854x480, 932x520 and 800x497, thats no reason to code a new UI20:45
w00t_it's not the sizes20:45
w00t_look at harmattan and meego - purportedly almost the same platform - one has titlebars, a close button, and a home button, the other has none of the above and swipe.. then there's android20:45
berndhsyes20:45
berndhsall blatantly silly reasons to code an entirely new UI20:46
w00t_is 5 minutes of work really worth that much worrying?20:46
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berndhswhether your applicaiton is started and closed by swipe or hardware button doesn't make any difference20:46
berndhsyou shouldn't have to recode the UI for that20:47
ali1234how much difference is there, really, between one mobile phone with a touch screen, and another mobile phone also with a touchscreen?20:47
w00t_ok, go out and prove that the teams that did components are wrong then20:47
w00t_i'd really like for them to be20:47
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w00t_but there's a lot of very smart people there, and they don't think it's a maintainable solution20:47
berndhsthey dont want to maintain 1 solution20:47
w00t_and having looked into the details of what's required, while i'm not a huge fan, i probably agree20:47
w00t_they did20:47
berndhsthey want to maintain _their_ solution20:47
w00t_that's why you have symbian and harmattan with the same API20:47
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berndhsanyway, that's sort of off topic20:48
berndhsthis was about which, if any, set of components to include in core20:48
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berndhsand I'm suggesting that, if there is no common set, then include none of them in core20:49
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w00t_it depends on what core we're talking about20:49
berndhsyes20:49
w00t_if it's CE, then harmattan is probably not too bad an idea, given it'd be lovely if CE could run as many harmattan applications out of the box20:50
berndhsif it is phone-core, that's different than device independent core20:50
w00t_if it's an OS, then i'd agree, nothing20:50
berndhsif it is N900 core, then I would argue its' not a core, its platform specific20:50
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lcukvery well described w00t_20:51
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lcukI think Kate also gave similar about the variations recently20:52
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berndhsbut we shouldn't include things because they are nice, or work well, or look good20:52
lcukand just trying to think of qt app on various versions of symbian is the same20:52
w00t_a/me -> dinner20:53
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crazedpsycall this talk of qemu made me get it, and all the meego additions for it from the AUR... any way to actually boot meego (tablet | netbook) on it, with a GUI?21:00
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lcukn900crazedpsyc you should be able to21:03
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crazedpsycOk, I got the default TWM xsession.. can't figure out how to start the meego interface though. Just put 'exec ck-launch-session meego-launch' in a .xinitrc?21:05
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bazZtihi folks21:24
bazZtican i handle meego with a remote (logitech harmony one) and an hp receiver?21:24
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meegofreak_hello is there any meego tab to buy already?22:56
meegofreak_tablet i mean22:56
Stskeepswetab22:57
meegofreak_its not original meego22:57
meegofreak_can you install meego on it? after rooted shell?22:57
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meegofreak_it s already a pain to get root and then to install a new meego os, in case it fails, you need as well much pain to update with the wetab stick22:58
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andre__meegofreak_, well, if you shipped "original meego" as a hardware producer, you'd have no differentiation at all... so you shouldn't expect any "original meego" tabs22:59
meegofreak_urgh23:00
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andre__meegofreak_, I'd say this is how the industry works.23:01
andre__nothing specific to meego, same for android etc23:01
meegofreak_does archos tab 10 " allow to install meego ?23:01
Stskeepsauke: what service would be responsible for bringing up a login prompt on console in systemd?23:01
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lcukandre__, differentiation perhaps23:02
lcukbut with a solid suite of standard apps23:02
andre__lcuk, true. all depends on levels :)23:03
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lcukwe should be working together on the solid suite of apps23:03
* TSCHAKeee seriously wonders why people don't understand this...23:03
lcukand let differentiation come naturally as vendors tweak it and add flowers and other decoration :P23:03
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: i think we should never have shown anything but a xterm23:04
Stskeeps:P23:04
TSCHAKeeehahaha23:04
TSCHAKeeei do have one lingering question23:04
TSCHAKeeewhat will happen to Netbook?23:04
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TSCHAKeeeright now, it's like the guy with the window office, looking out the window...with nothing to do.23:04
Stskeepsgod knows.. someone cared enough to back away from GNOME3 in 1.3 and i have no idea if 1.3 images work atm23:04
TSCHAKeeeit boggles the mind23:05
lcukStskeeps, is there a 1.3 x86 image of anything?23:05
Stskeepslcuk: IVI i think is coming along23:05
lcukthe only one I have seen was from sages' foundary23:05
lcukroger23:06
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TSCHAKeeeis there any good IVI reference hardware floating around?23:06
TSCHAKeeethe congatec stuff disappeared23:06
TSCHAKeeeStskeeps, lcuk: dunno if you guys saw, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc4eh4k9Ffs   and    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gzNGMSv0b423:08
* Stskeeps looks23:09
TSCHAKeeethe aeon skin has progresed a LOT in the last few days, but basically, after XBMC trying to make fun of us at SCALE, I'e made it my mission to just shove it in their facecs as we do our new engine23:10
TSCHAKeeefaces23:10
Stskeepscompetition is good, keeps you sharp23:10
Stskeeps:P23:10
* CosmoHill looks at Adobe and Macromedia23:12
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Ulf_Stskeeps, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=1865223:14
Stskeepshmm, also for tty0?23:14
Stskeeps(virtual console)23:15
* Stskeeps bookmarks that bug, seems useful23:15
Ulf_:)23:15
Stskeepsthanks23:15
CosmoHillStskeeps: should be easy to remember bug 1865223:15
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18652 nor, Medium, ---, chris.e.ferron, RELE FIXED, Separate packages for hardware adaptation serials23:16
CosmoHill5+ 1 = 6 + 2 = 823:16
StskeepsCosmoHill: yeah, my mind isn't wired like that23:16
Stskeeps:P23:16
CosmoHillneither is mine23:16
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CosmoHillmine's wired like an old jag23:17
TSCHAKeeeanyone seen vgrade?23:17
CosmoHill~seen vgrade23:18
infobotvgrade is currently on #harmattan (18h 50m 4s) #meego (18h 50m 4s), last said: 'annma, http://www.notmart.org/index.php/BlaBla/Wireless_on_Plasma_Active_MeeGo_'.23:18
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