IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2016-04-06

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robotanarchy	Wizzup: here is what I found out so far (with lots of help from sre), regarding ofono and 4.6-rc1 kernel:	00:46
robotanarchy	https://github.com/robotanarchy/penguinphone/wiki/N900:-Running-ofono-with-a-4.x-kernel	00:46
robotanarchy	feel free to extends this :)	00:46
kerio	what's ofono again	00:55
robotanarchy	kerio: a piece of c software, that provides a dbus api to the n900 modem (and for other phones)	00:55
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robotanarchy	so you can easily connect it, type in the pin, write sms, do calls etc	00:55
robotanarchy	more or less easily ;)	00:56
robotanarchy	also it is heavily bloated and out of date. but there aren't much alternatives	00:56
robotanarchy	here is some more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OFono	00:57
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Wizzup	robotanarchy: That is helpful. I think I may be able to get it to work with this even.	01:05
Wizzup	I'll let you know when I have some time.	01:05
robotanarchy	nice :)	01:05
Wizzup	There should also be some scripts that you can use to test ofono, like send-sms or so	01:06
Wizzup	In gentoo, I think it is a useflag.	01:06
robotanarchy	yes, they are in the source. I have linked them under "trying to find the modem"	01:06
robotanarchy	Wizzup: not sure if I have asked already, but which distro do you run currently on your n900?	01:07
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robotanarchy	... okay, gentoo i guess :p	01:21
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Wizzup	robotanarchy: yes, gentoo	01:37
Wizzup	robotanarchy: how did you guess? ;)	01:37
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DocScrutinizer05	((there aren't much alternatives)) FSO	01:40
DocScrutinizer05	~fso	01:40
infobot	i heard fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware. http://www.freesmartphone.org//	01:40
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kerio	does nokia use any of those	01:43
DocScrutinizer05	nope	01:43
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kerio	ayy lmao	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	and the ofono guys were quite ... strange when defeating to join FSO rather than starting a second project of same purpose. They argued "FSO is just a better AT interface to modem, ofono approach is much broader". Now it seems it's exactly the other way around	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	NIH, never seen such pattern before¡ ;-P	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: Nokia invented their own stuff called ISI iirc	01:47
DocScrutinizer05	which nobody ever really used, except Nokia	01:47
DocScrutinizer05	(ISI) the usual "we share the (incomplete) specs so everybody may use them, but we don't provide any code of a reference implementation" industry "standard" :-/	01:49
DocScrutinizer05	~isi	01:51
infobot	rumour has it, isi is Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques	01:51
DocScrutinizer05	meh!	01:51
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DocScrutinizer05	http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD	01:52
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DocScrutinizer05	~#maemo ISI is http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD	01:54
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer05	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	~isi	01:54
infobot	hmm... isi is http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	~#maemo ISI is also https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00662.html or https://libraries.io/github/freesmartphone/libisi	01:59
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	~isi	02:01
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, isi is http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD	02:01
DocScrutinizer05	dammit	02:01
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DocScrutinizer05	literal isi	02:02
DocScrutinizer05	~literal isi	02:02
infobot	"#maemo isi" is "http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD \|\| https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00662.htmlhttps://libraries.io/github/freesmartphone/libisi"	02:02
DocScrutinizer05	friggin idiot bot	02:02
DocScrutinizer05	infobot: no, #maemo isi is https://libraries.io/github/freesmartphone/libisi http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00662.html	02:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	~isi	02:03
infobot	hmm... isi is https://libraries.io/github/freesmartphone/libisi http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/drivers/isimodem?id=HEAD https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00662.html	02:03
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DocScrutinizer05	Openmoko SHR (OS) is completely based on FSO	02:07
DocScrutinizer05	and dos1 did a phonecall with SHR already, on Neo900 proto_v1	02:07
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* Wizzup is interested in alternative ways to do the same thing		02:08
Wizzup	especially if it means I can just use my own distro of choice	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	SHR also works on N900	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	maemo is way more "professional" and polished than SHR, but...	02:09
Wizzup	and it's not gentoo, and also has no up to date packages :)	02:11
Wizzup	i'd be happy with a very simple TUI to do calls	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	so try SHR	02:11
Wizzup	is it possible to install it on gentoo?	02:12
Wizzup	last I checked the last release was very old	02:12
DocScrutinizer05	or check out PaulFertser's emacs UI for freerunner ;-)	02:12
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DocScrutinizer05	well, I don't think there are many distro/release specific things in the vala code of FSO - dunno about SHR	02:13
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kerio	>using gentoo in $current_year	02:14
kerio	>using linux in $current_year	02:14
DocScrutinizer05	http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.20111212.txt	02:14
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: vala is a compiled language, so you should build FSO on top of whatever linux you use	02:15
Wizzup	kerio: let me know when minix runs on the n900	02:18
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup: actually you can ping paul in #openmoko-cdevel	02:21
Wizzup	I won't right now - because I don't have time currently	02:21
Wizzup	I will first give ofono a try, also to get gprs to work	02:21
DocScrutinizer05	why not FSO?	02:21
Wizzup	because ofono is packaged for gentoo	02:21
DocScrutinizer05	aah ok	02:22
Wizzup	I don't want to package FSO first :)	02:22
Wizzup	I may do it at some point	02:22
Wizzup	and I still have actually live up to my promise to fmg and finally get IDA ready and make some time for PA :(	02:22
DocScrutinizer05	zhere's a guy nicked "Sid" living here who bought a N900 from me for spare, and he's a big gentoo fan. I wouldn't be surprised if he packaged both ofono and FSO for N900 gentoo	02:25
DocScrutinizer05	actually Sidd -> https://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Village:Neo	02:30
Church-	Just curious where I could find the toolchaine for freemantle?	02:31
DocScrutinizer05	not worth logging in, the user page doesn't give away any better details	02:31
DocScrutinizer05	fremantle	02:31
DocScrutinizer05	~sb	02:31
infobot	somebody said scratchbox was a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB	02:31
Church-	DocScrutinizer05: ?	02:31
Church-	Ah.	02:31
DocScrutinizer05	the second link is a VM	02:32
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation	02:32
DocScrutinizer05	you don't need ^^^ when using the VM	02:33
Church-	The things I do to get r2 workin gon this thing. :P	02:34
DocScrutinizer05	please rephrase	02:34
Church-	Trying to get a copy of radare2 compiled for my 900.	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	at least what's r2?	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	aah	02:35
Church-	Ja	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	aah knew I heard it before, that was you :-)	02:36
Church-	Yarp. Always been shite at cross-compiling though, so this'll be an adventure.	02:36
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DocScrutinizer05	inside scratchbox it feels like genuine	02:38
DocScrutinizer05	actualy I think it sort of _is_ genuine	02:38
DocScrutinizer05	I mean SB is not only a chroot but also a qemu afaik	02:39
oldtopman	Is it alright if I ask questions about the nokia n900 here?	02:39
DocScrutinizer05	of course! :-)	02:39
DocScrutinizer05	where else if not here	02:39
oldtopman	Well, can never be too sure. The community gets smaller every day and I don't want to step on any toes :)	02:40
DocScrutinizer05	nah, here is a nice bunch	02:40
oldtopman	So, I was just on Lycamobile 2 years ago. They deactivated all of their old sim cards. I bought a new one and put it in, but I still get the generic no sim error.	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	eeew	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	no matter which SIM you use?	02:41
Wizzup	do you get the same problem with other SIMs?	02:41
Wizzup	what doc said.	02:41
oldtopman	I tried a h2o wireless one in the interim as well, but AT&T has deactivated their gsm network here (as I found out :/ )	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	well, that doesn't result in no-SIM	02:42
DocScrutinizer05	as long as you enter the pin correctly	02:42
oldtopman	What errors are there? Regardless of sim, I get the 'cellular communication error, all calls disabled...etc, etc.'	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	if it doesn't even ask for PIN though it should, you have a hw problem	02:43
oldtopman	With sim out, I can look up IMEI, with it in, it's blank on h2o	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	02:43
oldtopman	PIN?	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	hehe	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	ok, you're in a ecosystem aka country where SIMs don't use PINs?	02:44
DocScrutinizer05	I know a few of those	02:44
oldtopman	ah, yeah. America here.	02:44
DocScrutinizer05	as long as you can request IMEI, there's still hope	02:45
DocScrutinizer05	but odds are you are a victim of the notorious no-SIM hw error	02:45
DocScrutinizer05	~springfix	02:45
infobot	hmm... springfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243160#post1243160 and http://www.jabawok.net/?p=14	02:45
DocScrutinizer05	try to clean SIM contacts though, before you try that	02:46
oldtopman	DocScrutinizer05: It's blank with this sim in as well. Am I screwed? Really not a fan of android or ios right now :/	02:46
DocScrutinizer05	there are still working N900 available on ebay :-)	02:46
DocScrutinizer05	we need to do deeper examination of your modem status to definitely decide whether it's the nasty hw error or maybe something inb software or simply SIM contacts or sth	02:47
DocScrutinizer05	a very good indicator would be when no-SIM occurs only statistically from time to time. Then you're screwed	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	you can talk to the modem low level via program pnatd	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	in a shell	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	there you can use some AT commands to check status of modem and query details of SIM etc	02:49
oldtopman	DocScrutinizer05: I found my old Nokia 2720, should be able to tell if the sim card is working, yeah?	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	not trivial particularly to recall all the AT commands off top of my head	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	yep, sure - excellent approach	02:50
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup: could you (or anybody else) take over? I'm tired and off for bed	02:51
oldtopman	DocScrutinizer05, thanks for the advice. I'll give cleaning a shot before holding a funeral and replacing anything.	02:51
kerio	who shuts down a gsm network like that	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	ping me in 10h, we can go on investigating the issue	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: AT&T ;-P	02:52
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i shit you not ebay italy has some listings for 400+€ for brand new n900s	02:53
DocScrutinizer05	I know	02:53
DocScrutinizer05	a tad expensive, eh? ;-)	02:53
DocScrutinizer05	also check those offers, often they are from 2011	02:54
kerio	it makes the neo900 price feel more sensible ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ	02:54
DocScrutinizer05	I even found an original Nokia offer on Amazon	02:54
oldtopman	...darn 2720 isn't unlocked. Which is a good sign, I suppose, since it's more of a reaction than it had to the h2o card.	02:55
Wizzup	DocScrutinizer05: I just went to bed as well	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	If I wouldn't know Nokia doesn't even exist anymore (selling phones) I would have assumed this were a real N900 new offer	02:55
Wizzup	zzz	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup: oldtopman: kerio: $folks: good night :-)	02:56
oldtopman	night	02:56
Wizzup	nn!	02:56
kerio	http://www.amazon.it/Nokia-NOKIA-N900-32GB/dp/B00NHONL7U/ 700 washingtons	02:57
kerio	well, 700€	02:57
kerio	that's roughly 800 washingtons	02:58
DocScrutinizer05	that's the one I found :-D	02:58
DocScrutinizer05	"sold by: Nokia"	02:58
kerio	ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ	02:59
DocScrutinizer05	the comments give it away though	02:59
DocScrutinizer05	on the english amazon page there were user questions or comments up to 2011 then stopping	03:00
DocScrutinizer05	http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unlocked-Computer-Touchscreen/dp/B002OB49SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459003243&sr=8-1&keywords=nokia+n900	03:06
DocScrutinizer05	>>By Jason Byrne on May 10, 2011<<	03:07
kerio	who IS marina harisson	03:08
kerio	and why does she have pink hair	03:08
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: hahahahah look at the last 3 star review	03:09
kerio	"3.0 out of 5 starsIncredible potential. Substandard execution."	03:09
kerio	*January 2010 Update* I'm now on my third N900	03:10
DocScrutinizer05	~usbfix	03:12
infobot	[usbfix] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and NEVER use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt	03:12
DocScrutinizer05	?	03:12
kerio	why would you keep buying n900s if they weren't great, tho	03:12
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	03:12
DocScrutinizer05	anyway n8	03:13
Church-	Alright, well fuck getting radare2 installed. Compiling is taking forever, and being naughty and snagging the .deb from debian requires a newer version of libc6	03:23
oldtopman	Church-: You ought to upgrade your toaster then.	03:32
oldtopman	I can compile it on my old athlon in a few minutes.	03:33
Church-	oldtopman: Heh, I meant I'm running into errors. :P	03:41
oldtopman	Really? I didn't realize radare had any dependencies.	03:41
Church-	Well installing it would require a newer version of libc6 than is in the maemo repos.	03:42
oldtopman	Right, but even compiling has it's dependencies?	03:44
Church-	oldtopman: No, on that end It's just a pain the ass getting scratchbox working correctly. :P	03:46
oldtopman	What's wrong with ye olde makefile?	03:47
oldtopman	oh, I'm in the n900 channel, haha	03:47
Church-	:P	03:47
Church-	Nothing, needed the toolchain though.	03:47
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oldtopman	Wait - the gsm problem is caused by pressure on the gsm chips itself, not the sim slot?	04:11
oldtopman	...	04:11
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DocScrutinizer05	yes	04:33
DocScrutinizer05	usually	04:33
DocScrutinizer05	so putting paper under the SIM doesn't really help	04:33
DocScrutinizer05	it just bends the PCB a little which may help the chip's snapped-open solder points	04:34
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oldtopman	DocScrutinizer05: Is it a good fix, or is it a temporary stopgap until I can source another board?	04:50
oldtopman	Mine lives daily in my pockets - not an easy life, I killed the stand and camera cover already :/	04:50
DocScrutinizer05	there is no known good fix to no-SIM issue	04:52
DocScrutinizer05	when it's hw problem	04:52
DocScrutinizer05	springfix allegedly works up to a year or longer	04:52
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Church-	Welp, looks like I'll be asking somebody to attempt porting r2 for me.	05:16
Church-	Should be a while.	05:16
azkay	Wish this new sd card wasn't being a jerk	05:17
azkay	I've tried formatting it to fat32 on windows, on n900 with the file manager, and manually with terminal. Every time I'm getting "Memory card not supported", even though others aren't having problems with it	05:18
azkay	Time to try gparted I guess	05:18
Church-	Screw it, I'm just going to install neopwn on this fucking thing. :P	05:23
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Maxdamantus	azkay: does it mount manually?	06:21
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azkay	formatted it to fat32 in gparted, put it in and "mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /mnt" gives me "invalid argument"	06:29
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azkay	Unrelated, but damn this n900 that I got seems to have a much softer digitiser than my old one	06:31
azkay	Every day I'm seeing more scratches on it, my last one didn't have any	06:31
azkay	Weee, after a restart (for the 10th time) it's now working :)	06:34
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Church-	About ready to shoot myself over bleeding radare2. >_>	08:04
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stryngs	DocScrutinizer05: Thank you for the response. You too sixwheeledbeast. Is there a proper PDF I can scour so I can disassemble properly?	08:10
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Vajb	stryngs: try searching service manual from google or maemo wiki.	10:33
ceene	uhm	10:48
ceene	so	10:48
ceene	how is maemo's support for java?	10:48
ceene	still... i'm not willing to record yappari in java	10:50
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ceene	https://github.com/WhisperSystems/libsignal-protocol-c	10:58
ceene	there is this	10:58
ceene	that may be a little easier to use with yappari's gui	10:59
ceene	although i think it's basically the same thing as the qt5/4 implementation i got from coderus	10:59
ceene	who, by the way, has decided not to continue developing his whatsapp client	10:59
ceene	i think the way, really, is to make a telepathy plugin that supports whatsapp	11:00
bencoh	ceene: there is a purple plugin	11:01
ceene	that supports encryption?	11:01
bencoh	https://github.com/davidgfnet/whatsapp-purple	11:01
bencoh	ah, not sure	11:01
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ceene	maybe they do	11:01
ceene	there's a libaxolotl-cpp dir in that repo	11:02
ceene	so they should, yeah	11:02
bencoh	it does use axolo	11:02
bencoh	yeah ;)	11:02
ceene	well, that's a good thing	11:02
ceene	so...	11:02
ceene	remove all protocol related things from yappari	11:02
ceene	and make it a purple user?	11:02
bencoh	hmm, dunno, I suspect we'd still deps issues regarding libpurple	11:03
bencoh	(and newer libpurple needs newer glib iirc)	11:03
bencoh	+have	11:03
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ceene	aargh	11:03
bencoh	yeah, deps hell	11:03
ceene	no wonder coderus is fed up with all this	11:03
bencoh	actually the way to go would be telepathy->haze->whatsapp-purple	11:03
ceene	haze is a telepathy-purple thing, isn't it?	11:04
bencoh	yeah	11:04
ceene	i had a company once, named hazent :)	11:04
bencoh	but deps hell still apply	11:04
ceene	we didn't do shit except lose money, time and throw business cards like we were important or something	11:04
ceene	fun times those	11:04
ceene	better than this whatsapp thing	11:04
bencoh	haha	11:05
ceene	so	11:06
ceene	is there any feasible way then?	11:07
ceene	or should i just announce that i retire from this?	11:07
bencoh	I guess you could start by sending a few emails around (to coderus, and/or to whatsapp-purple author)	11:10
bencoh	Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libpurple0 (>= 2.3.0), libfreeimage3, libprotobuf8	11:12
bencoh	ii libpurple0 2.10.11-0maemo1 multi-protocol instant messaging library	11:12
bencoh	looks like it might actually work o.O	11:13
bencoh	still need protobuf, but...	11:13
ceene	the libprotobuf thing i think i can work around	11:14
ceene	as i got coderus' libs to compile on scratchbox	11:15
bencoh	yeah looks like libprotobuf is pretty much standalone	11:15
ceene	i don't remember how, but i did	11:15
azkay	i.imgur.com/Qyek0aY.jpg	11:16
azkay	Login finally down	11:16
ceene	that's an uber client?	11:16
ceene	on console	11:16
ceene	cool :)	11:16
azkay	yeah	11:16
azkay	It's been a week since I started using my new n900, and a week since I've been able to get an uber :P	11:17
ceene	E: Couldn't find package libfreeimage-dev	11:17
bencoh	azkay: oh, nice	11:17
ceene	what is does thing and why does a library need to manipulate images	11:17
ceene	s/does/this/	11:18
infobot	ceene meant: what is this thing and why does a library need to manipulate images	11:18
bencoh	processing/converting images before sending I guess (?)	11:18
ceene	maybe, yeah	11:19
ceene	ok	11:19
ceene	so	11:19
ceene	now i need to port this libfreeimage to maemo	11:19
bencoh	yeah	11:19
azkay	packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libfreeimage-dev	11:19
azkay	Can't just use the armel one from there?	11:19
bencoh	almost yeah	11:20
ceene	and this freeimage thing depends on a bunch of other image processing libraries that we don't have	11:20
bencoh	err we won't just take in the binary though	11:20
bencoh	but we can fetch their package and adapt the debian/	11:20
azkay	I seeee	11:21
bencoh	we have most of it	11:21
bencoh	lcms2 is missing (we have lcms1)	11:21
bencoh	libraw5 might be missing (not sure about the version we have) but I suspect we won't need it for a whatsapp client :)	11:21
bencoh	we might get away without lcms as well	11:22
azkay	Offtopic: Once I get the console version pretty much working, I should look at how to implement it into the maemo plugins stuff (like skype, facebook, etc). Send an SMS or something to Uber and it requests it, maybe	11:23
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azkay	And this is why I hate oauth API stuff, they say not to distribute the client_secret. Well, how are people supposed the client if they can't login without it?	11:36
azkay	supposed to use the client*	11:36
azkay	Anyone know what I should be looking for for coding something that works with Maemo? (Like skype, facebook, etc). Where you add your account, change it to online/offline in the top menu etc	11:39
ceene	https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Data_Sharing/Sharing_Plug-in#Account_Setup_User_Interface_Flow	11:41
ceene	mmm	11:41
ceene	i don't think this is it	11:41
ceene	i think that's for apps that share files through some service	11:41
ceene	but it's related nonetheless	11:42
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azkay	Thanks :), I just found some examples too https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/hildon-examples/	11:43
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Vajb	maybe it could be implemented as pidgin plugin?	12:37
ceene	that's purple, basically	12:53
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xes	it would be nice to have on maemo some kind of transport like spectrum2 that would allow to connect many other IM protocols: http://spectrum.im/documentation/about.html. Now i'm using it as gateway transport for whatsapp with the setup: openfire/spectrum2/tranwhat/yowsup	15:16
ceene	never heard about that	15:17
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xes	https://github.com/stv0g/transwhat	15:27
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DocScrutinizer05	zxspectrum2? ;-)	15:44
DocScrutinizer05	http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/zx-spectrum-2	15:45
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Wizzup	robotanarchy_: did you try it with mdbus2	15:48
DocScrutinizer05	mickeyL's dbus \o/	15:49
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DocScrutinizer05	ported from Openmoko	15:49
Wizzup	Yes. written in .... vala	15:50
Wizzup	and I have no valac	15:50
Wizzup	shrug	15:50
DocScrutinizer05	hehe	15:50
DocScrutinizer05	vala? duh! I thought it's python	15:50
Wizzup	it requires valac	15:50
DocScrutinizer05	I'm almost sure it's python. Maybe the *1 version	15:51
Wizzup	let me look.	15:51
Wizzup	ah.	15:51
Wizzup	https://github.com/freesmartphone/mdbus2 404	15:51
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DocScrutinizer05	http://paste.opensuse.org/75378034	15:52
Wizzup	taking the debian pkg	15:53
Wizzup	thanks	15:53
DocScrutinizer05	prolly mdbus2 is vala then	15:54
DocScrutinizer05	not prolly, obviously	15:54
DocScrutinizer05	https://github.com/freesmartphone/mdbus WFM	15:55
Wizzup	# ./mdbus2 -s org.ofono / org.ofono.Manager.GetModems	15:57
Wizzup	([],)	15:57
Wizzup	hm	15:57
Wizzup	OK, will continue a tad later.	15:58
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DocScrutinizer05	complete FSO was python and then version 2 rewrite in vala	16:01
DocScrutinizer05	I liked the python variant more	16:02
DocScrutinizer05	but alegedly for performance reasons Mickey went to vala	16:02
DocScrutinizer05	btw vala is just a C preprocessor, basically	16:03
xes	DocScrutinizer05: zxspectrum2? It would be nice.. Spectrum2 &CO is a big undocumented mess ..	16:03
DocScrutinizer05	ouch	16:04
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup: anyway if you are interested in FSO, Mickey is a very nice guy and always willing to help	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	unlike ofono folks, reportedly	16:06
Wizzup	I'm just trying to do what the linux ML post says on how to test this...	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	sre is none of the ofono folks though	16:06
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Wizzup	robotanarchy_: have you managed to successfully probe nokia-modem?	16:15
Wizzup	I think that is the main reason it fails	16:16
Wizzup	I get this:	16:16
Wizzup	[ 100.532379] nokia-modem n900-modem: Could not get gpio 0	16:16
Wizzup	[ 100.532501] nokia-modem n900-modem: Could not probe GPIOs	16:16
Wizzup	[ 100.532806] nokia-modem: probe of n900-modem failed with error -16	16:16
DocScrutinizer05	hmm GPIOs not in mainstream kernel?	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	I seem to recall sth like that	16:22
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DocScrutinizer05	either not available at all, or (more likely) massively changed API	16:23
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DocScrutinizer05	GPIO 0 ??? CMT_EN is GPIO_74	16:58
Wizzup	DocScrutinizer05: well, sre can get it to work on some mainline version	16:59
Wizzup	and apparently also a few others. so there's likely something odd	16:59
DocScrutinizer05	APE_RST_RQ and CMT_RST_RQ are on GPIO_72 and 73, CMT_RST on GPIO_75	17:01
DocScrutinizer05	we also got APESLEEPX to CMT/RAPUYAMA on GPIO_70 which I got NFC what it does	17:02
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, sorry I missed: APE_RST_RQ Input, CMT_RST_RQ Output, all others output too	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	from APE view	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	HTH	17:05
Pali	Wizzup: which kernel?	17:05
Pali	and for which userapace?	17:05
Wizzup	(booting now)	17:06
Wizzup	Pali: userspace is gentoo, do you want to know udev version? kernel is 4.5-rcX from your branch (sec)	17:07
Pali	above error message is there if you gpio_switch kernel driver want to use those GPIOS together with nokia-modem driver	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	hehe	17:07
Wizzup	Linux gentoo900 4.5.0-rc5+ #1 PREEMPT Wed Mar 9 18:58:02 CET 2016 armv7l Nokia RX-51 board GNU/Linux	17:07
Pali	so only one kernel driver should control	17:07
Wizzup	# lsmod \| grep gpio	17:07
Wizzup	gpio_keys 8404 0	17:07
Pali	gpio switch is static linked into zImage	17:08
Wizzup	Ah.	17:08
Wizzup	Yep. I see it now in dmesg.	17:08
Pali	and is available only in my linux-n900 tree (not in upstream)	17:08
DocScrutinizer05	that's what I meant	17:08
Wizzup	What is the best thing to do? Make it a module? Disable it?	17:08
Pali	so depends on how you want to control those GPIOs	17:08
Pali	via gpio switch?	17:09
Pali	or via generic gpio sysfs (exported by nokia modem)?	17:09
DocScrutinizer05	I guess that depends what ofono is doing ;-)	17:09
Wizzup	this is without ofono starting	17:09
Pali	ofono should support both methods :-)	17:09
Wizzup	This is just me trying to probe the module :)	17:09
Pali	but preferred is second via nokia modem	17:09
Wizzup	What would you recommend I do?	17:10
Wizzup	(I'm trying to get this to work and have no preference)	17:10
Pali	you need: 1) disable gpio switch when compiling kernel or either 2) load nokia-modem.pm=0	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	emphasis on "or either"	17:11
DocScrutinizer05	which one is better?	17:11
Pali	depends on userspace	17:11
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	17:11
Pali	maemo needs 1)	17:11
Pali	err 2)	17:12
Pali	Maemo sscd and csd can work only with pm=0 and with gpio switch	17:12
Wizzup	Pali: pm=0 worked when probing	17:12
Pali	pm=0 just skip exporting gpios	17:12
DocScrutinizer05	you're such a smart bunch, guys :-))	17:12
Pali	so gpio switch can control gpios	17:13
DocScrutinizer05	anybody ever checked that weird stuff around APE_RST_RQ CMT_RST_RQ APESLEEPX ?	17:14
DocScrutinizer05	I suspect the former two are about a mutual watchdog	17:15
DocScrutinizer05	third maybe to tell cellmo to suspend watchdog since APE went asleep	17:17
Pali	http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/plugins/nokia-gpio.c#n207	17:17
Pali	APESLEEPX is for flash mode	17:18
Pali	n900 has rapu type 1	17:18
DocScrutinizer05	wow, weird. Many thanks	17:18
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Wizzup	OK, so nokia-modem probes successfully. My next plan is to make gprs work	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	OUCH! http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/plugins/nokia-gpio.c#n272 missing a usleep()	17:24
kerio	how much usleep	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	minimum 100us	17:24
kerio	or what	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	raher 1000	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	or modem might miss IRQ due to too short 0-time	17:25
kerio	rip	17:25
kerio	there's also two rst close togheter in the next function	17:25
DocScrutinizer05	yep, http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/plugins/nokia-gpio.c#n310 same issue	17:26
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DocScrutinizer05	pretty anti-EE/hw approach I see in ofono	17:27
DocScrutinizer05	ignorant	17:27
DocScrutinizer05	I mean you can't rely on CPU clock without even probing/knowing it to shape a hw electrical signal	17:28
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DocScrutinizer05	I bet my skinny ass the pulsewidth of a GPIO_WRITE(cmt_rst, 0); GPIO_WRITE(cmt_rst, 1); is significantly shorter than 1us	17:29
DocScrutinizer05	shorter than 0.1us even	17:30
kerio	can you even usleep in the kernel, though	17:30
kerio	or would that need to be refactored	17:30
kerio	Pali: halp us	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	dunno, use NOPs if you can't do smarter things	17:30
kerio	no i mean	17:30
kerio	wouldn't it freeze the everything	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	I think there's a delay or sleep kernel function	17:31
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DocScrutinizer05	and yes it freezes the system for the sleeptime	17:31
DocScrutinizer05	that's why yiu usually avoid it	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	not here though, here you must use it	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	I mean it's one millisecond	17:32
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DocScrutinizer05	you may quote me when upstreaming the patch - I'll even sign it off	17:33
Wizzup	robotanarchy_: I also think that your udev rename is not correct / bogus path to go down to	17:34
Wizzup	robotanarchy_: when you properly modprobe the nokia modem, you get a phonet0	17:34
Wizzup	I'm rebuilding ofono now with tools and some other use flags	17:34
DocScrutinizer05	yes, that's the ISI interface basically	17:34
Wizzup	Let's hope they are useful	17:34
Wizzup	I want to see if I can get the gprs0 interface up	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup: please already apply my patches ;-)	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	usleep(1000)	17:35
Wizzup	I will do that when I installed it and it doesn't work - not that I don't trust your patches, but I want to reproduce what others did before	17:36
Wizzup	I need a solid base to work/test from	17:36
DocScrutinizer05	k	17:36
DocScrutinizer05	though the usleeps only take out unpredictable behaviour from a fringe case	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	without them it may or may not work, with them it must work	17:37
Wizzup	ack	17:37
Wizzup	thanks for noticing it	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	yw :-)	17:38
DocScrutinizer05	ofono guys had diect help from Nokia and still they coded such mess	17:42
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders about cmd pipelining in ARM		17:50
DocScrutinizer05	dunno if GPIO access is pipelined	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	worst case pulsewidth is 1/600E6 seconds, or completely optimized out	17:52
DocScrutinizer05	~1/60010*6	17:53
infobot	1666.666666666667	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	wut?	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	~1/(60010*6)	17:53
infobot	0.000000001667	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	17ns	17:54
Wizzup	robotanarchy_: have you configured ofono in any way? like in /etc/ofono/	17:56
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DocScrutinizer05	Pali: could we get dmesg early kernel boot msgs copied to syslog early during boot?	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	wait, what's that?	18:21
Pali	syslog copy it (after it start)	18:22
DocScrutinizer05	yeah think so, thanks and sorry for the noise	18:22
DocScrutinizer05	but very early kernel stuff still seems to be missing	18:24
DocScrutinizer05	size of dmsg buffer?	18:27
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DocScrutinizer05	or is it just ne getting puzzled?	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	me	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	http://paste.opensuse.org/60705118	18:28
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: that paste is missing some early log messages, yes	18:31
freemangordon	hmm, "i2c_omap i2c_omap.2: controller timed out"	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	and yep, we could get those if that lazy ashole here had already soldered the wires to the debug port ;-) Sorry!	18:32
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: is that stock kernel?	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	err yup	18:32
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freemangordon	no need for debug port, you should have evrything in syslog	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:~# uname -a	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux	18:33
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kerio	>stock kernel in 2016	18:34
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: no idea why those are missing, reboot once again and check	18:35
DocScrutinizer05	I rebooted and checked several times and same	18:35
DocScrutinizer05	will redo nevertheless	18:35
freemangordon	weird	18:36
DocScrutinizer05	http://paste.opensuse.org/36151160	18:40
kerio	freemangordon: still no thumby openssl 0.9.8zh? :(	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	http://paste.opensuse.org/21127879	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	looks pretty much same, no?	18:42
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DocScrutinizer05	wpwrak and me both think dmsg buffer too small for chatty kernel	18:45
DocScrutinizer05	resizing dmsg buffer shouldn't be too hard, no?	18:45
DocScrutinizer05	dmesg even	18:46
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DocScrutinizer05	-s bufsize	18:47
DocScrutinizer05	Use a buffer of size bufsize to query the kernel ring buffer. This is 16392 by default. (The default kernel syslog buffer size was 4096 at first, 8192 since 1.3.54,	18:47
DocScrutinizer05	16384 since 2.1.113.) If you have set the kernel buffer to be larger than the default then this option can be used to view the entire buffer.	18:47
Wizzup	robotanarchy_: ofono doesn't seem to detect any modem for me, yet	18:47
Wizzup	robotanarchy_: the symlink as suggested in sre's mail and your wiki makes no difference	18:47
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DocScrutinizer05	seems kernel ringbuffer is a pathetic 16kB per default, could it get resized by a kernel cmdline parameter on boot, or do we need a kernel rebuild?	18:51
Pali	you can change it by kernel cmdline	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	kewl!	18:52
Pali	log_buf_len=	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	so let's make it 64k and fix the dmesg -s used for copying to syslog(?)	18:53
DocScrutinizer05	at least with uBoot that should work, no?	18:53
Pali	and what is problem?	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	could we binary patch kernel hardcoded default size?	18:54
Pali	I have full dmesg in syslog	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	err see above, I don't	18:54
DocScrutinizer05	stock kernel	18:54
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Pali	musb spams too much...	18:55
DocScrutinizer05	I prolly should finally switch to PK ;-)	18:55
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, kernel* too chatty	18:55
DocScrutinizer05	but actually I prefer chatty over too silent	18:56
Wizzup	depends if it is a program or person	18:58
Wizzup	;-)	18:58
DocScrutinizer05	hehehe	18:59
DocScrutinizer05	don't we have a plaintext kernel default cmdline hardcoded into kernel?	19:00
DocScrutinizer05	is it actually evaluated by kernel? or just provided to /proc and no matter what's inside?	19:01
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DocScrutinizer05	who does copying of dmesg to syslog?	19:15
Wizzup	syslog should just pick it up	19:16
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DocScrutinizer05	aah builtin, with no options?	19:17
DocScrutinizer05	meh, RTFM	19:17
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DocScrutinizer05	no manpage for /etc/syslog.conf	19:20
DocScrutinizer05	usage: syslogd [-drvh] [-l hostlist] [-m markinterval] [-n] [-p path]	19:21
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DocScrutinizer05	how the heck I tell syslog about larger kernel ringbuffer, similar to dmesg -s ?	19:22
DocScrutinizer05	or does it simply know the size?	19:22
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DocScrutinizer05	btw would jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2> ./flasher-3.5 -b="$blabla log_buf_len=64K" work? I guess it's not sticky anyway, in that NOLO would store it to NAND permanently and use it for further boots	19:24
DocScrutinizer05	flasher-3.5 -b="`ssh root@iron900 cat /proc/cmdline` log_buf_len=64K"	19:32
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Pali	-b is temporary just for current boot	19:39
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Pali	no permanent solution except recompiling kernel	19:39
kerio	uboot!	19:42
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: ack	19:43
DocScrutinizer05	or binary patching kernel ;-D	19:43
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DocScrutinizer05	or uBoot as kerio said?	19:44
DocScrutinizer05	for testing flasher -b is just fine I'd guess	19:44
bencoh	yeah, uboot	19:44
bencoh	seriously, stock kernel and no uboot... what the hell are you doing? :p	19:45
freemangordon	kerio: I am waitng for merlin1991 to issue new cssu, -thumb will follow shortly	19:50
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DocScrutinizer05	~rescueos	19:54
infobot	somebody said rescueos was http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/	19:54
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bencoh	is there any reason why we don't have a cssu target (or several) with autobuilder	19:56
bencoh	?	19:56
bencoh	I mean, a repository where cssu maintainers could push source packages and autobuilder would generate binary packages	19:56
bencoh	just like with extras	19:56
freemangordon	bencoh: nobody wants to take the decision :)	19:57
freemangordon	take? make? whatever	19:57
Wizzup	I'm happy to donate arm hw	19:58
freemangordon	Wizzup: hmm?	19:58
Wizzup	for build machines	19:59
bencoh	is it just about "deciding", or is there any ...obstacle?	19:59
Wizzup	if that is helpful	19:59
bencoh	Wizzup: it shouldn't be considering we use scratchbox, but thx anyway :)	19:59
Wizzup	ack	19:59
Wizzup	offer will stand for considerable future :P	19:59
freemangordon	bencoh: I am not aware of any obstacle	20:00
bencoh	freemangordon: so we could have both -testing and -stable?	20:01
bencoh	and still have usual extras* packages built against stock PR?	20:02
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freemangordon	I see no problem with that	20:03
freemangordon	we can even have -thumb target	20:03
bencoh	that'd be great as well	20:03
bencoh	hmm ... who's admin on autobuilder/package infra?	20:03
DocScrutinizer05	bencoh: CSSU is a layered supplementary repo which nevertheless overrides base packages	20:04
bencoh	DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I'm aware of that	20:05
freemangordon	bencoh: me and merlin1991	20:05
freemangordon	me(autobuilder), merlin1991(package interface)	20:05
DocScrutinizer05	there are no regular build targets like CSSU for 'ordinary' packages	20:05
DocScrutinizer05	all maemo-etras is supposed to work on CSSU as well	20:05
bencoh	freemangordon: think you could add one of those (-testing or -devel maybe?) just to check if it works/things don't break?	20:06
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: no build targets - it is a matter of setting them up	20:06
freemangordon	bencoh: I am a kind of maintainer, not a decision-maker	20:07
bencoh	DocScrutinizer05: CSSU-* stuff shouldn't interfere with extras*, yeah	20:07
DocScrutinizer05	no, there's no need for such. There's aneed for thumb build target though	20:07
bencoh	freemangordon: which means this question should go to council?	20:07
freemangordon	or HiFo	20:07
bencoh	huhu	20:07
freemangordon	not sure what is the official "structure" lately :)	20:07
bencoh	DocScrutinizer05: well, I dunno if there is a need but I feel silly everytime I read fmg/merlin having to fiddle with building packages for release	20:08
bencoh	it just doesn't feel right to loose time on that and do a manual build while we could just send source package to some auto process	20:08
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: all the packages in Nokia and SDK repos are build by a kind of autobuilder	20:08
DocScrutinizer05	yeah ok	20:09
bencoh	besides this remind me of something you asked lately regarding neo900 and a working, buildable from scratch maemo ;)	20:09
bencoh	+s	20:09
freemangordon	bencoh: well, usually building is not a problem and we don;t have that much new packages with every release	20:09
DocScrutinizer05	but then this needs to be a sort of restricted autobuilder, with special care taken about who can upload stuff	20:10
bencoh	freemangordon: well, see merlin's fight against autotools a few days ago :)	20:10
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: deffinitely	20:10
bencoh	DocScrutinizer05: indeed	20:10
DocScrutinizer05	build TARGETS are x86, ARM, (new:) thumb. In extras etc	20:10
bencoh	freemangordon: would they be repositories, targets, something else?	20:11
DocScrutinizer05	a new autobuilder and repo could be very useful for CSSU but only when access is limited to CSSU members	20:11
bencoh	those*	20:11
DocScrutinizer05	and under final control of merlin1991	20:11
freemangordon	bencoh: I know what you meant, but that happens relatively rarely. and I guess one of the reasons it has happened this time is because it was a while since merlin1991 had done it for the last time ;)	20:11
bencoh	maybe yeah :)	20:11
bencoh	oh and, another cool thing is we could benefit from the promoting system	20:12
bencoh	-devel -> -testing -> -stable	20:12
freemangordon	hmm?	20:12
freemangordon	no, no	20:12
freemangordon	won;t work	20:12
bencoh	ah, why?	20:12
freemangordon	see extras :)	20:13
bencoh	hmm?	20:13
bencoh	I'm not talking about users voting	20:13
bencoh	but about admins/maintainers promoting packages	20:13
freemangordon	but who?	20:13
freemangordon	there is one maintainer - merlin1991	20:13
DocScrutinizer05	exactly	20:14
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DocScrutinizer05	CSSU works because it's a strict hierarchy with benevolent dictators	20:14
freemangordon	and when we used to have regular updates, there were regular meeting of the CSSU team members, where we discussed what to be included in the next update	20:14
bencoh	DocScrutinizer05: haha	20:15
freemangordon	*meetings	20:15
DocScrutinizer05	nah, no haha, see freemangordon ^^^	20:15
bencoh	fair enough	20:15
freemangordon	bencoh: yes, exactly what DocScrutinizer05 said	20:15
DocScrutinizer05	CSSu dictators are shanghaied	20:16
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	20:16
freemangordon	:)	20:16
DocScrutinizer05	actually that organizational structure is the only one that works for Openssource projects, in my book. And the probe,m is when people don't get the idea	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	problem	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	then messy stuff like a little bit longer than one year ago, with the eV and "let's abolish council" happens	20:25
DocScrutinizer05	it's an idiocy to try let a community of thousands take decisions	20:26
DocScrutinizer05	no matter which, except elections	20:26
DocScrutinizer05	even a community of one dozen usually fails epically	20:27
DocScrutinizer05	unless there's one dude with the hat on	20:27
bencoh	which is what we have here, basically	20:29
DocScrutinizer05	in industry you usually have project leaders for each project. everybody of the crew can become project leader, usually nobody wants to	20:30
DocScrutinizer05	since the PL has all the nasty duties	20:30
DocScrutinizer05	and kets ass-kicked in the end	20:31
DocScrutinizer05	gets*	20:31
DocScrutinizer05	as soon as somebody thinks PL has anything todo with power and might, very bad things happen	20:32
DocScrutinizer05	council are the maemo project leaders	20:34
DocScrutinizer05	merlin1991 is CSSU project leader	20:34
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DocScrutinizer05	and note that a PL has no saying usually in the shape, design, goals, and structure of a project. There are other guys to provide that data/drafts and PL only decides if those are OK with everybody else and the project requirements	20:38
DocScrutinizer05	PL nly keep the project running. They don't "provide ideas" other than "to do that right, we need to ask A, B, C to help procduce data x, concept y, poll z"	20:43
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DocScrutinizer05	when they provide ideas, they do it as team peer, not as PL	20:44
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DocScrutinizer05	a boss could also give orders to overrule any team decision, but a good boss won't usually do that, rather act as peer in the crew and let the PL do their job	20:46
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DocScrutinizer05	a FOSS project usually has no boss, so if it got poor prerforming PLs, the project is busted	20:49
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DocScrutinizer05	a last saying: "wer glaubt dass ein Projektleiter Prokekte leitet, der glaubt auch das ein Zitronenfalter Zitronen faltet"	20:51
DocScrutinizer05	s/Proke/Proje/	20:52
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: a last saying: "wer glaubt dass ein Projektleiter Projekte leitet, der glaubt auch das ein Zitronenfalter Zitronen faltet"	20:52
DocScrutinizer05	http://www.utele.eu/blog/einfach-so/projektleiter-und-zitronenfalter-oder-zitronen-falten-und-projekte-leiten/	20:56
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DocScrutinizer05	https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projektleiter#Zusammenfassung	21:06
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DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: Pali: how is softupd supposed to work?	22:21
Pali	DocScrutinizer05: what do you mean by how?	22:22
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DocScrutinizer05	typical usecase, how maemo uses it	22:22
Pali	it is "server" for flashing images to mtd, mmc and also to modem	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	no connection to NOLO?	22:23
Pali	no, softupd is linux binary	22:23
Pali	it is started after booting linux kernel	22:23
Pali	not in bootloader	22:23
DocScrutinizer05	I thought it's used together with local flasher and allows all of flasher's options?	22:23
Pali	maemo via (local) flasher can flash new kernel or bootloader	22:23
DocScrutinizer05	but not boot?	22:24
Pali	local flasher is just client for softupd	22:24
Pali	no booting	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	22:24
Pali	also it listen on usb device	22:24
Pali	so you can communite via softup via usb	22:24
Pali	e.g. via g_nokia.ko	22:24
Pali	see 0xFFFF and Mk II protocol	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	aaah for vanilla flashing	22:24
Pali	softup understand Mk II protocol via usb or local socket	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	yep, makes sense	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	thank you very much	22:25
Pali	also this is only way how to flash mmc image	22:25
Pali	when you boot into "update" mode, it just boot linux kernel and then init system	22:25
Pali	+ softup as server	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	22:25
Pali	minimal "busybox" userspace	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: does 0xFFFF\|flasher's -b=cmdline option also apply to booting a kernel from NAND?	22:49
Pali	DocScrutinizer05: it apply to currently loaded kernel in RAM	22:49
DocScrutinizer05	only RAM?	22:50
Pali	if you do not send any kernel via USB, then in RAM is kernel from NAND	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	aah, right	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	so I can modify the cmdline for an 'ordinary' boot?	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	temporarily	22:51
DocScrutinizer05	I.E start flasher -b=blablabla and then plug a powered down device to USB	22:52
DocScrutinizer05	I don't think I have a special purpose for asking that right now, rather I'm just curious	22:53
DocScrutinizer05	Iprolly should simply try it ;-)	22:54
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Pali	DocScrutinizer05: yes, but do not forget to specify what is in /proc/cmdline	23:07
Pali	as -b overwrite whole cmdline... it does not do "append"	23:07
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