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| DocScrutinizer05 | on O2 you select the type of phone you have, they deduce from that | 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually do that on your web-interface to your "account" | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you also fetch MMS there | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you get that SMS with link | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since obviously you can't download via your phone's GPRS and when you use your PC and arbitrary internet connection you need some authentication | 00:21 |
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| bennypr0fane | hi, I noticed the "repos down" notification seems to have disappeared from TMO. Are the repos actually back up? If so, do the mirrors still work? | 00:28 |
| eccerr0r | cool fmms worked on receive... | 00:28 |
| eccerr0r | extras-devel still seems to have hash problems... fmms 1.3.3 pulled fine, 1.3.4 from devel puked | 00:31 |
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| jon_y | Estel_: try sending a blank mms to yourself | 00:35 |
| jon_y | my provider thinks n900 is a non-mms phone too | 00:36 |
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| jon_y | had to send an empty mms to myself, after that, mms works | 00:36 |
| bennypr0fane | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88659&highlight=repositories the last update here, very short seems to say the repos are back up, but not stable | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | bennypr0fane: repo.m.o is working since several days. and yes, the mirrors are still up | 00:39 |
| bennypr0fane | Cool. Is it correct that the mirrors are on status of december? so any updates made to apps since then are not in the mirrors? | 00:40 |
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| bennypr0fane | also, should we stick to the mirrors until repo.m.o are perfectly fine, or is it ok to go back to repo.m.o? | 00:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there been no updates to anything since this year, basically | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you don't run into hashsum error, r.m.o is perfectly fine to use | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for reminding me of "final update" | 00:50 |
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| teotwaki | I'm going to have to side with jacekowski on this one. This channel has never been respectful, and it's definitely never been immune to abusive operators. Estel_, it sounds to me like you want this channel to be an echo of the love and peace we see on tmo and the MLs... Oh wait, there was never any love nor peace on either of those either!?! | 01:18 |
| teotwaki | But you know, who the fuck cares. I said I didn't want to be an op because I'd be abusive, but I was given op status anyway. If anyone wants to take it away, feel free. It's not like this channel actually needs ops anyway. It's dead. The community it fought for is dead. The product it fought for is dead. The company it fought for is dead. | 01:20 |
| teotwaki | But yeah, when I hear some geezer who's thrown so much shit at my and Doc's face in PMs and in public, even though I did really try to understand this guy, say that we're just a bunch of losers because we don't understand the concept of family matters? Well, piss off. | 01:22 |
| teotwaki | Next thing we know, he's going say things like we should be thrown in jail because we didn't fight for our countries, again. | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | few years back | 01:23 |
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| jacekowski | only reason why i wanted an op status on any channel was just so i could be abusive to others | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | now i can be abusive to others in real life and i don't give about op status on IRC | 01:24 |
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| teotwaki | jacekowski: we've had our differences, especially back in the day with lcuk. You pretty much thought I was an arrogant twat who was a poser on the liqbase project, I thought you had asperger's and needed to get laid. Was I ever abusive to you, and did I ever abuse my op powers against you? I don't think I ever truly was, but maybe Estel_'s right, and I do have a problem and suppress the parts of my behaviour I don't like. | 01:25 |
| teotwaki | (well, I know I was abusive to you when we chatted, but don't think I overreached on the banhammer) | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | to be honest, i think banhammer should have been used on this channel more often | 01:26 |
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| jacekowski | but well, yeah, the community is pretty much dead, and maemo community has been well known to scare people off | 01:28 |
| jacekowski | esspecialy people that contributed the most | 01:28 |
| jacekowski | i'm surprised that there are still people that care about the servers and whole thing | 01:29 |
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| jacekowski | if it were up to me i would just type shutdown -h now and left it at that | 01:30 |
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| jacekowski | even if you take a look at https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/?C=M;O=A | 01:33 |
| jacekowski | builder logs | 01:33 |
| jacekowski | you can see how little activity there is compared to year beafore | 01:34 |
| jacekowski | before* | 01:34 |
| M4rtinK | jacekowski: because the builder is broken :) | 01:35 |
| M4rtinK | since November | 01:35 |
| jacekowski | then compare october | 01:35 |
| M4rtinK | till December it was at least possible to scp packages | 01:36 |
| M4rtinK | but then it broke down completely | 01:36 |
| jacekowski | there is 5x as many builds in 2011 oct as in 2012 oct | 01:36 |
| *** npm_ is now known as npm | 01:36 | |
| M4rtinK | well, there ARE builds :) | 01:36 |
| jacekowski | in year it shrunk 5x | 01:36 |
| teotwaki | that's because between 2011 and 2012, we lost half the developers. | 01:37 |
| teotwaki | Android started getting worthwhile, and iOS brings the promise of making money. | 01:37 |
| M4rtinK | personally, so long I have at least a couple of users, I don't care :) | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | this year, other half will leave | 01:37 |
| M4rtinK | hell, I'm still supporting the Neo FreeRunner for the lone user who is still using modRana on it :) | 01:37 |
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| jacekowski | there are no new devices running maemo | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | n900 hardware is shit by todays standards | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | and there will be new phones coming out with real linux | 01:38 |
| teotwaki | I'm still amazed that I managed to get over 300 people to install what was essentially a keylogger and email hijacker, for what was nothing more than an absolute shit app | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | (firefox os) | 01:38 |
| teotwaki | QA my arse. | 01:38 |
| M4rtinK | the only mobile PSX emulator other then Open Pandora :) | 01:38 |
| M4rtinK | with Game Gripper :) | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | openpandora is overpriced | 01:39 |
| teotwaki | You can run a full linux stack on the Nexus 7. | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | psp is now £100 on ebay | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | or less | 01:39 |
| teotwaki | For those who dreamt of NITs back in the day, the Nexus 7 is it. | 01:39 |
| M4rtinK | jacekowski: Ferefox OS != real Linux | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | and psvita is £200 | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | new | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | i was wrong, psp is £30 on ebay | 01:40 |
| M4rtinK | Firefox OS uses the Android kernel and driver to run a glorified browser | 01:40 |
| M4rtinK | thats all | 01:40 |
| M4rtinK | no native apps planned at all so far | 01:40 |
| M4rtinK | the same for Tizen | 01:40 |
| jacekowski | i thought firefox os was meant to be running real linux | 01:41 |
| M4rtinK | a Friend has seen it on FOSDEM (Firefox OS) and was unimpressed & it said it was quite slow | 01:41 |
| M4rtinK | jacekowski: unfortunately not | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | i've been to fosdem and i went past it | 01:41 |
| teotwaki | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUD7VeL90e4 | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | although, i've got few stickers from them | 01:42 |
| M4rtinK | they have platform code written in Javascript though :) | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | rotfl | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | that's main reason why firefox is shit and slow | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | ubuntu says they'll allow native | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | ahm yeah | 01:43 |
| jacekowski | that's the one | 01:43 |
| M4rtinK | since I was once digging through the Open Layers source | 01:43 |
| jacekowski | i was thinking about ubuntu os | 01:43 |
| * ShadowJK wishes for device you can code on :) | 01:43 | |
| M4rtinK | I can imaging how horrible it must look like :) | 01:43 |
| teotwaki | ShadowJK: get an ultrabook | 01:43 |
| M4rtinK | yeah - Ubuntu & Jolla & Plasma Active are the best candidates at the moment | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | teotwaki; why | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | if I code on computer I might as well code for computer | 01:44 |
| M4rtinK | the only question is how botched or cut down the resulting system is | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | because then I'm still limited to nonportable :) | 01:44 |
| teotwaki | ShadowJK: because no matter how good the multitasking gets, you will always need a reference manual for the language you're using, and you will always need more screen real estate. | 01:45 |
| M4rtinK | if there is package manager with dependency resolution (this is a very unique Maemo 5 specific feature - most other mobile platforms are completely lacking this !) | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | dependency resolution done linux way is a bad idea | 01:46 |
| jacekowski | version conflicts and stuff | 01:46 |
| M4rtinK | or if there is another brain-dead stupid Aegis-like system | 01:46 |
| jacekowski | look up WinSxS | 01:46 |
| jacekowski | microsoft fix to conflicting .dll versions | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | how much ugly hacking it took to have something that works | 01:47 |
| M4rtinK | but it is needed | 01:47 |
| M4rtinK | I've been recently porting for BB10 & Android | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | doing it the linux was is not really possible in long term if you want comercial software | 01:47 |
| teotwaki | I think dependency managers work fine on Linux. | 01:47 |
| M4rtinK | you need to bundle everything there | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | for open source packages | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | M4rtinK: i think that's decent idea | 01:48 |
| jacekowski | it works much better than linux way | 01:48 |
| M4rtinK | so the an application what would be like 300 kB on Maemo | 01:48 |
| teotwaki | jacekowski: nha, we distribute commercial software through deb and rpm | 01:48 |
| M4rtinK | was 6.9 MB with heavy cutting of unnecessary libs & files on BB10 | 01:48 |
| jacekowski | do you build it for 100 different distro versions | 01:48 |
| teotwaki | just don't be an idiot and depend on non-compatibly licensed libraries. | 01:48 |
| M4rtinK | and 15 MB on Android (could be probably optimized a bit) | 01:48 |
| jacekowski | teotwaki: on bigger upgrade even glibc is upgraded | 01:49 |
| M4rtinK | at least BB10 has built in usable Qt libs & Python | 01:49 |
| jacekowski | so you have to make sure your application is building against latest upgrade | 01:49 |
| jacekowski | every single day | 01:50 |
| M4rtinK | and you can use Ministro on Android for Qt | 01:50 |
| teotwaki | jacekowski: we build it for every single version of Debian from 3.0 and up, Ubuntu 8 and up, FC 12 and up (I think, not sure), and Red Hat/CentOS 5.0 and up. | 01:50 |
| jacekowski | and it's pain in the ass to manage | 01:50 |
| teotwaki | I don't know how many different builds that is, but it works fine. | 01:50 |
| jacekowski | well, set up* | 01:50 |
| M4rtinK | but that means you have to bother users with installing it on first start - looks like quite a lot of users can't manage that | 01:50 |
| jacekowski | most of commercial software i've seen goes by way of shipping all dependencies inside the package | 01:51 |
| M4rtinK | and will be fun once there is an exploit for a widely bundled library :) | 01:51 |
| M4rtinK | jacekowski: well yeah, on PC | 01:51 |
| teotwaki | Yeah, but most commercial software hasn't had their packaging designed by smart people :) Just idiots who were under pressure and went "We'll dump everything in /opt". | 01:51 |
| M4rtinK | but if every mobile app has to drag 10MB+ of libs, that adds fast | 01:52 |
| jacekowski | which is why i think WinSxS is much better way of doing things | 01:52 |
| M4rtinK | and has to be downloaded, stored & separately loaded to memory | 01:52 |
| M4rtinK | it is inefficient as hell | 01:52 |
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| teotwaki | To be honest, once you have mock set up for all your target distros, and a local copy of the repositories you depend on, you're golden. Debian is even easier, just a simple chroot that is rebuilt automatically every couple of weeks. | 01:52 |
| teotwaki | It took me nearly a week to get it all setup, but we've never had any issues since then. We maintain our .spec files, and our .deb generators, and that's it. | 01:53 |
| teotwaki | And when an old distro doesn't use the library we need, we backport it and maintain that .deb/.rpm ourselves. | 01:53 |
| * ShadowJK hopes the ubuntu device will have better availability than typical nexus stuff | 01:54 | |
| teotwaki | ShadowJK: yeah, the nexus 4 has been a real disaster. | 01:54 |
| teotwaki | I've had my order cancelled 3 times. | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | 7 is hard to find too | 01:54 |
| jacekowski | ? | 01:54 |
| teotwaki | 7 is available in most local stores here | 01:54 |
| jacekowski | what about 4 | 01:54 |
| teotwaki | the nexus 4? | 01:55 |
| M4rtinK | <offtopic> I'Ve just finished my PySide for Android guide: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/PySideForAndroid </offtopic> :) | 01:55 |
| teotwaki | They've stocked a few thousand, and are producing them by the hundreds. | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | the one with smaller storage is being sold for $650 here, but always out of stock | 01:55 |
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| teotwaki | the nexus 7? | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | 4 | 01:56 |
| teotwaki | holy fuck | 01:56 |
| teotwaki | it's 200 here... | 01:56 |
| teotwaki | (euros) | 01:56 |
| teotwaki | 300, sorry. | 01:56 |
| teotwaki | actually, the 350 one (16GB) is available, but "ships in 3 weeks". | 01:56 |
| teotwaki | Problem is, I bought it like that 3 times, and had my order cancelled 3 times. | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | why are they selling a microsd-less device with only 8 or 16g storage :/ | 01:58 |
| teotwaki | because they need to push their cloud | 01:58 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 01:59 |
| teotwaki | I heard it's kinda rainy for Google's Cloud (pun intended) | 01:59 |
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| ShadowJK | cloud is useless, burns up battery too fast | 01:59 |
| M4rtinK | also basically unusable with some local data plans (150MB/month :D) | 02:00 |
| M4rtinK | it is the cheapest one, but still :) | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | and it requires you to purchase everything | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | though multi user is in fact a good reason to provide a microSD-less device | 02:00 |
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| jacekowski | to be honest, i only use my phone for interwebs, and phone calls | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG | it's just sad that the iPhone has a 32, 64, and probably a 128 GB version in the coming future | 02:01 |
| jacekowski | i watch all my porn on my laptop | 02:01 |
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| MohammadAG | that could go on the cloud jacekowski | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG | most of the time a person's watching porn they're close to a charger anyway | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, get a Galaxy Note 2? | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | i wish nexus 7 had gsm and voice capabilities | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | it would be a real note 2 killer | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG | I beg to differ | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | and it's small enough to fit in my pocket | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG | the screen's not that good on the Nexus 7 | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | colours feels unsaturated compared to the Note | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | (or just about any recent device) | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | rotfl | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, it's actually pocketable | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | most of people say that colours on oled screens are oversaturate | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | d | 02:03 |
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| MohammadAG | comparing it to the LG LCD connected to my PC, it still feels unsaturated :P | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | or maybe I'm just used to Android on OLED, movies looked fine on the N7 | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, the features Samsung added in the Note 2 are actually good | 02:04 |
| ShadowJK | nvidia control panel has a "digital vibrance" setting that lets you pull up colour saturation to fully saturated. it's the lols | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | wish they'd go upstream | 02:04 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: yeah, I love the note 2, but I'm not sure about Samsung's overlay | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, it's actually pretty good | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | on the S3, it just slowed things down | 02:06 |
| jacekowski | i wish it had WP8 | 02:06 |
| teotwaki | Also, price is an issue | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | it's half the iPhone 5 in IL :D | 02:06 |
| jacekowski | talking about slow, android is so horribly slow | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | but then again, the iPhone 5 is about the same price as 1998 used car | 02:06 |
| jacekowski | i don't exactly get what dictates price of a car | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | I actually like iOS more than Android, but seeing as the jailbreak scene is dying slowly, I can't stay on that | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | i bought a car for £800 that had 60k miles | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | i've done another 60k miles in it, and only costs were fuel and oil | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | 6000 Israeli New Sheqel equals 1629.77 US Dollar | 02:08 |
| teotwaki | yeah, but jacekowski, you're in the most undervalued car market on the planet. | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | that's how much the iPhone 5 was in Israel | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | at least when it first came out | 02:08 |
| jacekowski | so i've paid 0.1p/mile +fuel/oil/insurance costs | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | now it's about 1k | 02:09 |
| jacekowski | while previous owner paid 100x as much | 02:09 |
| deepy | MohammadAG: so it would be cheaper to buy it in USA, pay for a plane ticket for it and then pick it up at the airport_ | 02:09 |
| deepy | ?* | 02:09 |
| jacekowski | iCrap for $1600? | 02:09 |
| jacekowski | that's including unlimited text/voice/data forever? | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | 1629 | 02:09 |
| deepy | It's a decent markup, someone has to have made a fortune on that | 02:10 |
| RiD | forever as long as you pay the monthly bill | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG | deepy, depends on the plane ticket, but yeah :P | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, unlocked sim-free | 02:10 |
| RiD | jacekowski what car do you own? | 02:10 |
| jacekowski | s/\//\ and\ / | 02:10 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: btw | 02:10 |
| jacekowski | RiD: rover 25 diesel | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | RiD: it runs perfectly on cooking oil | 02:11 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: 2 hours of talk time to the whole of europe (landlines) + us/canada (mobiles + landlines) + france (mobiles + landlines), unlimited texts, and unlimited hotspot data. How much? | 02:11 |
| RiD | lol | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | not lol, but half price fuel | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | when you do 50k miles/year it really comes up to decent savings | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, in Israel? | 02:12 |
| RiD | 1,45€ per liter, diesel | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | there's no unlimited data, operators allow a max of 10GB | 02:12 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: nope, in France. | 02:12 |
| jacekowski | yeah, cooking oil is less than half of that | 02:12 |
| RiD | might be more expensive now | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | but without the data, it's 135 NIS /month | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | meaning about 35$ | 02:13 |
| teotwaki | ok | 02:13 |
| teotwaki | in France, 2 euros | 02:13 |
| teotwaki | Or free, if you're a DSL/Fiber subscriber with that operator. | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG | you have to admit, Europe is kind of local :P | 02:13 |
| teotwaki | Hang on to yer knickers, MohammadAG | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | teotwaki: you're from france? | 02:13 |
| RiD | jacekowski for petrol 98, 1,849€. 95 = 1,699€ | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG | for $35, we get unlimited calls, text, 2GB of data (!!!) | 02:14 |
| RiD | things are good in portugal *cough* | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG | and free international calls to some countries | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | RiD: diesel went up to almost £1.50 from under 1.40 last week | 02:14 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: unlimited talk time to mobiles in france and US/Canada, unlimited talk time to landlines in the whole of europe, unlimited texts, and unlimited 3g data (fair use of 3GB), unlimited hotspot, how much? | 02:14 |
| RiD | our minimum wage is 485€ more or less | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | teotwaki: i'm looking for a prepaid simcard with data in france | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG | what's fair use? | 02:15 |
| teotwaki | fair use = they lower the bandwidth if you go over the 3GB | 02:15 |
| RiD | "raw" i mean, without taxes | 02:15 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: after 3GB it slows down to almost 0 | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG | that's not unlimited! | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG | it's the same with the 2GBs we get | 02:15 |
| teotwaki | err, no, not 0 :) You still get 100KB/s. | 02:15 |
| jacekowski | i'm on 1GB fair use | 02:15 |
| jacekowski | and i push 50GB/month through that | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, I've seen that stuff in Israel | 02:15 |
| jacekowski | t-mobile must hate me for that | 02:15 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: how much? | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG | I get 25kb/s | 02:15 |
| teotwaki | GIMME A PRICE MODAFUKA | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, 4 EUROS!! | 02:16 |
| teotwaki | close | 02:16 |
| RiD | WHAT | 02:16 |
| teotwaki | 20 | 02:16 |
| teotwaki | 16 if you're a customer | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | that's a lot actually :P | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | see, 20-16 is 4 | 02:16 |
| RiD | 4€ for 2gb? | 02:16 |
| teotwaki | jacekowski: no idea about prepaid with data | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | in Israel? FUCK NO | 02:16 |
| jacekowski | talking about interwebs | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | the lowest plan you get is $30 | 02:17 |
| teotwaki | jacekowski: but yeah, I live in France. | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | i pay £9 for "fibre optic" broadband at home | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | 80mbits | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | and i've downloaded just today, 300GB | 02:17 |
| RiD | DL or UL? | 02:17 |
| teotwaki | jacekowski: haha, yeah, I had that fibre optic broadband as well in London | 02:17 |
| teotwaki | what a fucking joke | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | it works quite well in here | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | my ISP just upgraded my internet connection to 10mbits | 02:17 |
| RiD | i have awesome 6.96Mbps | 02:17 |
| teotwaki | 't was a good day if I could load a video on youtube between 5 and 7PM | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | i do get that 80Mbps | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | actually 20 | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | i've had no problems with that | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm getting fibre internet in my area. | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | sometime 2014? | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | I had 10, but they replaced the package with 20 for the same price | 02:18 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: if you are on normal broadband, don't say yes first time they call you | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | currently on 1.7mbit | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | oh btw, here's a laugh from a friend of a friend of mine | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: the good thing about the two contracts I talked to you about, is that there's no setup fee, no cancellation fee, and no minimum required engagement. | 02:18 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: they seem to get really desperate if you say no and will drop price a lot | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | he installed a pirated app, and it showed some stuff about an FBI Anti Piracy team | 02:18 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: so you could actually get that contract for a month, and fuck off. | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | then it wiped his data | 02:18 |
| RiD | http://www.speedtest.net/result/2515844815.png | 02:18 |
| RiD | home adsl | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: I am being very, very careful with cash ATM :-\ | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, same in IL :) | 02:19 |
| teotwaki | heh | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, actually, all this happened when some rich guy from France came and opened a new mobile company | 02:19 |
| teotwaki | Maybe IL isn't such a shit place after all | 02:19 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: who? | 02:19 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: Xavier Niel/ | 02:19 |
| teotwaki | ? | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | not sure, jut a sec | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | but I recall something about the french being involved | 02:19 |
| jacekowski | http://www.speedtest.net/result/2515846265.png | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Telecom | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | that's BT in colchester | 02:20 |
| teotwaki | French Investor Xavier “My Way” Niel Targets Israeli Telecoms | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | so yeah, you were close :) | 02:20 |
| teotwaki | The company was founded by Michael Golan, a businessman who immigrated to Israel from France in 2007, and his partners, including Xavier Niel – with whom Golan previously developed several telecom ventures as an executive of the Iliad group in France, using a business model emphasizing low-cost fixed monthly pricing rather than metered usage. | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, we never had unlimited till Golan Telecom and Hot started offering unlimited plans for the cheap price of 99NIS/month | 02:21 |
| teotwaki | well, Xavier Niel is the head of Iliad, which owns Free, which is the operator I'm talking about in France. | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | given all plans that offered less stuff started at about 250, that was quite a blow | 02:21 |
| teotwaki | yeah, they did the same in France. | 02:21 |
| teotwaki | Most plans started out at 35e | 02:21 |
| jacekowski | i was surprised by how cheap qatar and saudi arabia were | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, orange shat their pants and made a cheaper plan | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | gas is cheap there jacekowski | 02:21 |
| teotwaki | Basically, there was a plan in France, for people with very low or no income | 02:22 |
| jacekowski | .sa was 100SAR for 10GB of data (including USB modem) | 02:22 |
| teotwaki | If they paid 10e, they got 30 minutes of talk time, and 30 texts. | 02:22 |
| teotwaki | And that was a contract that the telecoms has "created" for low income families. | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, go to Jordan, 600JDs a year for 12GBs/month | 02:22 |
| teotwaki | Xavier Niel arrived, had a press conference, where every journalist was given a 2euro coin. | 02:23 |
| jacekowski | for £10 you get unlimited interwebs with 1GB fair use and 60 minutes and 60texts | 02:23 |
| jacekowski | from tmobile | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, it's still profitable though right? | 02:23 |
| teotwaki | And they launched the 2 euro unlimited texts and 2 hour talk time | 02:23 |
| teotwaki | well, that's what he said | 02:23 |
| teotwaki | even if everyone used their contract | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG | I have no idea about the costs needed to operate a mobile network | 02:23 |
| teotwaki | they still make a near 50% profit | 02:23 |
| teotwaki | which is why they give it away to their DSL/Fibre contracts | 02:24 |
| MohammadAG | heh, I love how orange's app shows that I have about 9 (or 90?) years of talk time per month | 02:24 |
| MohammadAG | rather than just saying unlimited | 02:24 |
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| teotwaki | Anyway | 02:25 |
| teotwaki | I'm going to head home | 02:25 |
| teotwaki | Not like I've been getting very far this past hour | 02:25 |
| teotwaki | So might as well try and get a few hours of sleep before the week begins. | 02:25 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 02:25 |
| MohammadAG | 10 days till the BB deadline ends | 02:25 |
| MohammadAG | better start coding an app | 02:25 |
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| teotwaki | says the guy who goes to the office over the weekend | 02:26 |
| teotwaki | what deadline? | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | the one to get the Dev Alpha replaced with a LE device | 02:26 |
| teotwaki | meh | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | after that, they pull a remote plug on your device I think | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | https://twitter.com/MohammadAG/status/291638599923953666/photo/1 | 02:27 |
| RiD | what | 02:27 |
| RiD | how can they do that | 02:27 |
| wmarone | cause they own it | 02:27 |
| RiD | if you smash the whole thing, the device program won't end | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | actually it's in the bootloader afaik | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | cause that showed instantly after pressing the power button | 02:28 |
| RiD | short circuit the board | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | I only had to update to the newest version | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | but I saw that it was there | 02:29 |
| RiD | samsung touchwiz looks like ugly gingerbread | 02:29 |
| RiD | when will they change it | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | TouchWiz 5 isn't that bad | 02:30 |
| RiD | it looks bad but i like the toolbar that appears when you swipe the notification bar | 02:32 |
| RiD | better than having to click on that stupid button on the edge to appear the buttons, like nexus does | 02:32 |
| RiD | show the switch buttons or w/e they are called, not "appear the buttons". brainfart | 02:34 |
| MohammadAG | what toolbar? | 02:35 |
| RiD | http://images.anandtech.com/doci/4686/SC20110730-194259.jpeg | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | that's touchwiz 4 | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | that shit sucked :P | 02:36 |
| RiD | touchwiz 5 still has the toolbar that i mean | 02:37 |
| RiD | that was a random screenshot from google | 02:37 |
| teotwaki | Best quote we heard from the training chick at our company? "Ok everyone, please use your mouse to click on the X on the top right of your screen" "click click, click click" "It doesn't work" [our chick goes around to see, she sees a woman seriously holding the mouse against the top right corner of her screen and going "click click". | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | http://www.digitalmcgyver.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/quick-access-power-saving-galaxy.png | 02:37 |
| RiD | exactly | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | lol teotwaki | 02:38 |
| RiD | i'm throwing money at my screen but it's not working | 02:38 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: if only it had the button to switch of 3g | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, it does | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | that's scrollable | 02:38 |
| teotwaki | nha, you need to root it or something | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | RiD, http://img.tapatalk.com/60ee20f7-40a3-f83b.jpg | 02:38 |
| teotwaki | or at least you need to on the s2 | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | that's AOKP | 02:39 |
| RiD | wait what how | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | it's mostly for Nexus devices, but it adds toggles | 02:39 |
| RiD | 4.2 and above? | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | teotwaki, root for what? | 02:39 |
| teotwaki | dunno | 02:39 |
| teotwaki | don't own an android | 02:39 |
| teotwaki | except for my touchpad | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | 4.2 has a quick settings thing | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | where you swipe with two fingers | 02:39 |
| RiD | so if you swipe with two fingers it shows that? | 02:40 |
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| MohammadAG | no no no | 02:40 |
| teotwaki | anyway | 02:40 |
| teotwaki | I'm off | 02:40 |
| RiD | swipe 2 fingers, opens settings? | 02:40 |
| teotwaki | laterz | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | later teotwaki :) | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | RiD, if you swipe with 2 fingers, it shows this http://cdn.asia.cnet.com/story_media/62219451/quick_settings.jpg | 02:40 |
| RiD | oh i see. | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure, but you probably can revert to old settings somehow | 02:41 |
| RiD | i don't own an android phone anyways | 02:41 |
| RiD | Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tegra 2 awful | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | on the Nexus 7, it depends on where you swipe | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/quick-settings.jpg | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | if you swipe on the left area, notifications open, right area -> quick settings | 02:41 |
| RiD | currently on modified stock 4.0.4 to support Calls and text messaging | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | on stock 4.2, those settings suck | 02:42 |
| RiD | "modified stock" lol | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | clicking on wifi simply opens the settings page for wifi | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | rather than toggling wifi | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | AOKP and CM10.1 fixed that | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | Android's concepts are actually cool | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | it's just Java that sucks | 02:42 |
| RiD | one thing i seriously dislike is that if you get an older app | 02:43 |
| RiD | all of a sudden you see the gingerbread UI | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | you mean non holo stuff? | 02:43 |
| RiD | yes | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | I hate taht | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | that* | 02:43 |
| RiD | damn its ugly | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | but I barely have those apps nowadays | 02:43 |
| RiD | you know what one day i should adapt some sort of maemo theme to android | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | tbh | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | I found iOS closer to maemo than android | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | Android is a different thing | 02:45 |
| RiD | when i mean one day i mean never :| | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | you learn stuff by making mistakes | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | there's no wiki | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | no documentation | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | and the number of sane people in a community is way too small | 02:45 |
| RiD | you mean android or ios? | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | Android | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | iOS is well documented, and imo, has the best hackers an OS can have | 02:46 |
| MohammadAG | the only thing that annoys me is that jailbreaks are closed source | 02:46 |
| wmarone | I'd use iOS if it didn't need to be jailbroken | 02:46 |
| wmarone | their APIs and tools are quite nice | 02:47 |
| MohammadAG | ^ | 02:47 |
| MohammadAG | or if a jailbreak was instant | 02:47 |
| RiD | i hope android dies soon lol | 02:48 |
| MohammadAG | it's the only sane OS atm | 02:48 |
| MohammadAG | in the sense it's not locked down | 02:49 |
| RiD | but it's one big ass mess | 02:49 |
| RiD | all my friends have android phones... | 02:49 |
| wmarone | MohammadAG: BB10 is similar to iOS? | 02:49 |
| RiD | one of them with 4.2... everyone else 2.3 | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | basically, imo, pre-4.0 all suck | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | wmarone, I found iOS way better | 02:49 |
| wmarone | I mean in terms of lock down | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | developing for BB10 was annoying, at least for me | 02:50 |
| RiD | i dont even understand how android became popular with 2.3 and below | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | actually not sure, but I guess so | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | I haven't seen an easy way to get shell access | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | RiD, Samsung, and it was the cheap phone that gave users stuff like Viber and WhatsApp | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: only now has 2.3 fallen below 50% of the market. | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | The Galaxy SII was the only 2.3.4 phone I liked | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: and only in the last few weeks | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, only because there are still companies shipping 2.3 | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: also older phones | 02:52 |
| RiD | i wouldn't mind android at all... if every phone was 4.0 and above | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | and devices | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG | two years from now they'll die | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG | RiD, ++ | 02:52 |
| RiD | but damn how can people use 2.3, it hurts my eyes | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG | each android version has a different API level | 02:52 |
| RiD | my brain too | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG | afaik latest one is 17 | 02:52 |
| MohammadAG | basically, developers will start needing the new features | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | and workarounds will stop being made | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | WhatsApp probably supports API 5-17 | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | which means there's a lot holding them back, since they can't use API 17 stuff on old phones | 02:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | strange problem: have ssh, cannot use public keys. As soon as I disable password auth I cannot get into n900 at all | 02:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | public keys are fine as I use only public keys to auth on every linux device I posses | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | have you screwed up permissoomg in ~/.ssh | 02:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | neither server, neither desktop are able to auth, but server->desktop works, desktop->server works as well. Both have exactly same authorized_keys file as it is copied over from server | 02:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | how? I never touched anything apart from password auth | 02:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | n900 hve same file as well | 02:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | copied few minutes ago | 02:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | neither server nor desktop is able to auth | 02:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | actually settings match both desktop and server | 02:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | nothing else is ever chnged | 02:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | it is very annoying as I like to use askpass and agent and never type my passphrase | 02:59 |
| WizardNumberNext | then I can simply enter any command along ssh and it works, but n900 doesn't allow for some strange reason | 02:59 |
| WizardNumberNext | I can try with laptop and see if it works, but I doubt it | 03:00 |
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| RiD | ah this homework is killing me | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what a backscroll | 04:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :-o | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki evidenced how dead this channel is ;-P | 04:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Remember when Maemo was Nokia's new flagship. | 04:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, Ubuntu Phone dev preview next week. | 04:02 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 04:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | then maybe Jolla sometime soon. | 04:02 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 despises all those glorified browser concepts, no matter how they're called | 04:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I deprecate Android kernel | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a "back to windows3.1" concept | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | in some way at this point any more platforms are good. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | even winmo. a duopoly isn't noticeably more healthy than a monopoly | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | +4, SpeedEvil. | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Competition is good | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apple and Google have gotten lazy. | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | then there is differentiation for the point of differentiation, despite what users may think. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | take, for example the silly thin minute figures on the android clock | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | sure, it means you can now tell easily it's an android device. | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | it does not make it work better as a clock, and I've found nobody that thinks it looks better | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | and platform breakage - like not supporting low power WiFi. | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | err Bluetooth | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | and ad-hoc | 04:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, what's with the Ad-Hoc shit? | 04:14 |
| Hurrian | "For user safety". | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was trying to tether to my N950 the other day and I'm like, "This would work on a platform that wasn't COMPLETE AND UTTER SHIT" | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | 'google knows best' | 04:15 |
| RiD | why would they disallow ad-hoc | 04:15 |
| RiD | oh well | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | see also the volume buttons not working, | 04:15 |
| Hurrian | El Goog seems to think that users are too stupid to know whether they're being MITM'd | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want a real operating system on my Nexus 7 | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's a nice device otherwise | 04:16 |
| * GeneralAntilles dreams of a Fremantle/Harmattan fusion. | 04:16 | |
| RiD | homework done uploading, i'm free | 04:16 |
| RiD | .... going to sleep | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | if you increase the volume above about a third (never mind you're listening to a quiet speech podcast), you have yo remove the device from pocket, open case, unlock, press the up button again, and accept the 'too loud may damage your hearing, before putting it away again | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | and there is no way to make this persistent | 04:17 |
| RiD | what | 04:18 |
| RiD | my hearing is already damaged, so bring it on | 04:18 |
| RiD | not that android devices are loud anyways | 04:19 |
| RiD | a galaxy nexus isn't louder than an n900, and the sound does not seem very balanced either, seems to boost the bass | 04:19 |
| * SpeedEvil needs to measure the actual output voltage. | 04:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | I suspect it's warning way before the 30mw suggested limit | 04:20 |
| RiD | i'd care more about the actual headphones you're using | 04:21 |
| RiD | along with their sensitivity and impedance | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, doesn't France have some law about that? | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: exactly | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: probably. I meant to look into the legisopatiom, | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | currently still distracted by UK social security legislation. | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's like Nokia's stupid "unplug the charge from power supply" popup. | 04:23 |
| RiD | HHA | 04:23 |
| RiD | to save energy | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | reading and understanding the new universal credit legislation and regulatory guidance | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | That shit pissed me off so much the first time I saw it. | 04:23 |
| RiD | i dont mind it lol | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: especially as new Nokia chargers use about 100mW idle | 04:23 |
| RiD | ahh i found it, mine are 126dB and 32 ohms | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | bug #2285 Good times, good times. | 04:24 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/2285 Charger disconnect notice is unnecessarily "green" at the expense of accuracy and usability | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | or a total of maybe £3 of electricity over the product life | 04:24 |
| RiD | eprom999 has a nice message lol | 04:25 |
| RiD | what's the n900 audio output voltage? | 04:29 |
| SpeedEvil | possibly ±1.5 or so | 04:31 |
| RiD | what | 04:31 |
| RiD | translate that | 04:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | probably about 30mW into 32r | 04:50 |
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| Estel_ | <SpeedEvil> [03:17] if you increase the volume above about a third (never mind you're listening to a quiet speech podcast), you have yo remove the device from pocket, open case, unlock, press the up button again, and accept the 'too loud may damage your hearing, before putting it away again | 05:32 |
| Estel_ | <SpeedEvil> [03:17] and there is no way to make this persistent | 05:32 |
| Estel_ | w-h-hat? | 05:32 |
| Estel_ | cheesus, candidacy for most idiotic "innovation" in mobile devices world | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | it's presumably for some jurisdiction worldwide | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | and yes | 05:33 |
| Estel_ | not only the whole concept, but, wtf, audio level is much more dependent on headphones than output power | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | there at least needs to be 'yes, I've read and understand this' | 05:33 |
| Estel_ | sure, but once for a system reflash should be enough... | 05:34 |
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| Estel_ | I have special mini-earphones, that I never use above 30% volume on N900, as it would be too loud, even in noisy enviromnent. Other pairs could be too quiet on 80% | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed | 05:35 |
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| Estel_ | it reminds me of "land fish" in EU legislation | 05:35 |
| Estel_ | BTW, anyone know where maemo's default image-viewer keeps it's thumbnails? | 05:35 |
| Estel_ | Some time ago I moved saving photos to encrypted partition, then, today, I've realized, that I'm not sure if thumbnails aren't saved on opt anyway | 05:36 |
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| Estel_ | Well, I'll answer myself - /home/user/.thumbnails | 07:28 |
| Estel_ | and to my own surprise, I've moved it to encrypted partition during 1st time when I've decided to use boot-time mounted encrypted one for sensitive data (then completely forget about doing it, already) | 07:33 |
| eccerr0r | hmm...so it actually uses standardized XDG thumbnails? nice | 07:39 |
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| eccerr0r | hmm... bluestacks needs a maemo port... :D | 08:02 |
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| thedead1440 | qwazix: ping | 09:36 |
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| qwazix_9 | thedead1440, I'm on the move now, I'll ping you in about an hour. | 09:50 |
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| qwazix | thedead1440, ping | 11:19 |
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| thedead1440 | qwazix: Just wanted to say sorry if unintended damage is done by me. | 11:33 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, damage regarding what? | 11:34 |
| thedead1440 | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1323567&postcount=2 | 11:34 |
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| qwazix | I don't think there will be a problem with that, but let's see. It's good that it isn't only us complaining. | 11:38 |
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| thedead1440 | I don't know for me personally that minutes were one step too far so I don't speak for Council but I wouldn't be surprised if the BoD lump me as the one and the same because of skeiron | 11:38 |
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| qwazix | I also believe that any effort approaching other FOSS project must first be discussed on tmo, and see what people have to say. The jolla questions sheet is much better approach than doing official letters | 11:41 |
| thedead1440 | indeed | 11:43 |
| thedead1440 | From where did Ubuntu come in the picture? Its one more avenue relations will go beyond repair as we have seen with the botched Jolla discussions | 11:44 |
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| kerio | thedead1440: +1 | 14:57 |
| thedead1440 | thanks :) | 14:58 |
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| parasemic | any way to create an account to maemo.org forum? | 15:28 |
| parasemic | waited for like 3 months for registeration email, or reply from admin | 15:28 |
| parasemic | no luck | 15:28 |
| RiD | what the hell? Try checking the spam folder, try registering again... | 15:29 |
| parasemic | (yes, ive had it resent for like million times) | 15:29 |
| RiD | you sure there's no stupid little typo in the e-mail? | 15:29 |
| parasemic | nope, i dont have a spam folder and my email works perfect | 15:29 |
| RiD | a small hidden " i " perhaps :P | 15:29 |
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| parasemic | yes, im sure | 15:29 |
| parasemic | because "resend" page says my email is correct | 15:29 |
| RiD | What e-mail do you use? | 15:29 |
| RiD | I mean not the actual e-mail, the , i don't know how it is called, after @ | 15:29 |
| RiD | @blbb.net | 15:30 |
| parasemic | welho.com, which is a major finnish internet service provider | 15:30 |
| Pali | chem|st, look ^^ | 15:30 |
| parasemic | its funny, because i can log in to maemo.org forums, but i cant reply to any threads because my account isnt activated | 15:31 |
| parasemic | doesnt stop me from sending private messages, though | 15:31 |
| parasemic | yet i cant report a bug because "my account doesnt exist" | 15:31 |
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| kerio | parasemic: fun! | 15:36 |
| parasemic | hmm, apparently now i got the email | 15:36 |
| parasemic | seems like the forums email servers had been down for months | 15:36 |
| parasemic | or something | 15:37 |
| parasemic | dunno | 15:37 |
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| parasemic | i do have another question though, as the #harmattan seems pretty much dead at the moment.. how on earth can my N9's terminal ask "Do you want to continue [Y/n]" and typing Y aborts the installation | 15:38 |
| parasemic | nevermind, #harmattan came alive | 15:39 |
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| narcos | Hey maemoers. I'm getting an error when trying to install packages via apt-get: | 16:55 |
| merlin1991 | let me guess | 16:55 |
| merlin1991 | hashsum mismatch? | 16:56 |
| narcos | E: Encountered a section with no Package: header | 16:56 |
| narcos | E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle-1.3_non-free_binary-armel_Packages | 16:56 |
| narcos | E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. | 16:56 |
| merlin1991 | o_O | 16:56 |
| narcos | merlin1991: Heh, actually I had that one a few weeks back | 16:56 |
| merlin1991 | that ones more interesting | 16:56 |
| narcos | s/interesting/frustrating/ :-/ | 16:57 |
| merlin1991 | narcos: as root do a rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* followed by apt-get update | 16:57 |
| narcos | shall I remove the directory /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ too? | 16:57 |
| merlin1991 | no just the files in there | 16:58 |
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| narcos | dafuq. I can only hit port 80 - 443 or other ports get rejected. What kind of mobile provider is this. | 17:00 |
| thedead1440 | must be American then... | 17:00 |
| narcos | Nope :P | 17:00 |
| * thedead1440 is shocked :p | 17:01 | |
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| narcos | What's the latest version of Python I can get running on a N900 ? | 17:21 |
| narcos | Python 2.5.4 is super old. | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sth in my maemo-xchat fsckd up. It doesn't reconnect anymore when switching from wlan to GPRS | 17:21 |
| thedead1440 | narcos: 2.7 should be in the repos iirc | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just sits pretending it's connected | 17:22 |
| narcos | thedead1440: ahh, ok *checks* | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thedead1440: I don't think there's any damage done | 17:23 |
| thedead1440 | wrong chan DocScrutinizer51 :p | 17:23 |
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| ShadowJK | /timer -repeat 0 600 allserv ping | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it gets confusing with more than 10 chan on maemo xchat | 17:24 |
| thedead1440 | take your time it isn't urgent | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Comma splice. Don't edit tired with a glass of alcohol in your hand. D: | 17:30 |
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| narcos | thedead1440: I don't see Python 2.7 in 'apt-cache search python' | 17:41 |
| narcos | Hmm @ "Dropped 2.5 Support. (Backwards Incompatible)" for Python requests | 17:42 |
| thedead1440 | python2.7 - Interactive high-level object-oriented language (version 2.7) | 17:42 |
| narcos | ah | 17:44 |
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| thedead1440 | its on extras-devel | 17:44 |
| narcos | Right - so I need to add that repository then? | 17:45 |
| thedead1440 | yup use merlin's extras-devel | 17:45 |
| thedead1440 | ~mirrors | 17:45 |
| narcos | LOL @ "Extras-devel is an unstable repository for testing unstable community software. It is recommended only for developers and adventurous users willing to test potentially harmful software." | 17:45 |
| infobot | well, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error | 17:45 |
| thedead1440 | the last one extras-devel.merlin1991.at | 17:46 |
| kerio | yeah, that's the only 100%-working extras-devel mirror | 17:46 |
| kerio | because it's not a mirror | 17:46 |
| thedead1440 | download this file on your device and it will add it: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/extras-devel-light.install | 17:46 |
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| narcos | thedead1440: Great, thanks | 17:47 |
| thedead1440 | np | 17:47 |
| narcos | Hm, what type of file is that? | 17:47 |
| narcos | Actually, I assume I need to browse to it via the UI interface on the phone | 17:48 |
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| narcos | ( I'm ssh'd in ) | 17:48 |
| kerio | narcos: yeah, open it with the browser | 17:48 |
| kerio | or with HAM | 17:48 |
| kerio | or put "deb http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free" in a sources.list | 17:49 |
| narcos | k super, opened it via the file manager | 17:51 |
| narcos | odd that /etc/apt/sources.list is an empty file? | 17:51 |
| thedead1440 | because all are in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | 17:51 |
| merlin1991 | they are in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 17:51 |
| narcos | gotcha :) | 17:52 |
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| kerio | narcos: weirdly enough, python2.7 is actually 2.7.3rc2 | 17:54 |
| eccerr0r | what would maemo do if I changed the default password hash in /etc/passwd from '!' to a real hash? | 17:55 |
| kerio | eccerr0r: the same as "passwd" | 17:55 |
| eccerr0r | right, i was intending to do that, wondering what the consequences of it are... | 17:56 |
| kerio | no consequences | 17:56 |
| kerio | except that you can login via ssh | 17:56 |
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| jargon | is the repo still down? | 17:57 |
| kerio | jargon: it's been up for quite some time now | 17:57 |
| jargon | oh. says it's back in the chan title | 17:57 |
| kerio | except that extras-devel is still borked | 17:57 |
| eccerr0r | good... i just didn't want it to go haywire which is a possibility :D | 17:57 |
| jargon | kerio: really? hmmm. | 17:57 |
| jargon | kerio: aah. no wonder. it's probably that,then | 17:57 |
| jargon | ok thanks | 17:57 |
| kerio | eccerr0r: a better question is: why aren't you taking regular backups? | 17:57 |
| kerio | jargon: extras-devel.merlin1991.at is a working "mirror" for extras-devel | 17:58 |
| jargon | installing frontcamera on my n900 will have to wait then | 17:58 |
| kerio | jargon: nope | 17:58 |
| narcos | kerio: ah ok | 17:58 |
| eccerr0r | restoring takes time, if there's a way to know the consequences beforehand, all the better | 17:59 |
| narcos | Oddballs, DNS seems to have failed. There's no /etc/resolv.conf - how does maemo handle DNS ? | 18:02 |
| narcos | Hm, dnsmasq by the looks of things | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | narcos: etc/resolv.conf has localhost only. dnsmasq | 18:05 |
| kerio | narcos: there should be a /etc/resolv.conf | 18:05 |
| chem|st | Pali: there is nothing wrong with email or anything... only people having a spamtool rejecting instead of flagging emails and I am so sorry that I do not give a fsck! | 18:06 |
| kerio | chem|st: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qn8lljCs1rrmergo1_400.gif | 18:07 |
| chem|st | stop trolling me | 18:10 |
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| narcos | kerio, DocScrutinizer51: Odd. I rebooted and now it works. | 18:15 |
| kerio | what did you do? | 18:15 |
| narcos | I started the apt-get install for python2.7 - halfway through DNS started failing. There was no /etc/resolv.conf file, so I added one, that didn't help, but post-reboot DNS is back. | 18:17 |
| kerio | riiiiiiight | 18:18 |
| kerio | i believe you | 18:18 |
| narcos | heh | 18:18 |
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| narcos | Ummm, I don't think I did anything else - apt was running, I was just watching :) | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | that sounds like scratchbox | 18:19 |
| kerio | by the way, why does maemo use dnsmasq as a local dns? | 18:20 |
| kerio | to cache? | 18:20 |
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| narcos | Odd - I think it was more than DNS that went down the first time. It's down again, but I can't even ping my gateway | 18:32 |
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| * narcos grumbles | 18:33 | |
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| ShadowJK | kerio, yes, and to handle changing resolver IPs | 18:36 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: hm, how does ICD2 "talk" to dnsmasq? | 18:37 |
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| ShadowJK | nfi | 18:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: most probably by creating files in /var/*/*/*resolv.conf | 18:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | or maybe not at all? | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | maybe dnsmask just monitoring routes or sth? | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | or interfaces? | 18:45 |
| kerio | dns is a whole different thing | 18:46 |
| kerio | it's not a property of the interface | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | sure it is | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | each interface has its own NS, usually offered thru DHCP | 18:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: unix interfaces, however, don't know or care about the dns | 18:48 |
| kerio | it's either statically configured in resolv.conf or some dhcp client sets it | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | that doesn't mean that dnsmasq doesn't care about interfaces | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | Sure, but there's no NS associated with interfaces unless dnsmasq itself internally tracks such a thing, in which case we're back to the question of "how does ICD2 'talk' to dnsmasq?" :) | 18:49 |
| kerio | exactly | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | Man, powerco cut power for maintenance today, semi-unannounced. Still cleaning up the mess on my workstation | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | :-((( | 18:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | sue them | 18:53 |
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| kerio | hahaha | 18:53 |
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| kerio | hm, i might as well just uninstall backupmenu i think | 18:55 |
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| kerio | codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8 | 19:04 |
| kerio | what the fuck is going on there :s | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues extras-devel.merlin1991 | 19:20 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'extras-devel.merlin1991' by value (1): #maemo mirror. | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | - [1] Pidgin Security Advisory #65 vom 2013-02-13 | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <http://www.pidgin.im/news/security/?id=65> | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | - [2] Pidgin Security Advisory #66 vom 2013-02-13 | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <http://www.pidgin.im/news/security/?id=66> | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | - [3] Pidgin Security Advisory #67 vom 2013-02-13 | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <http://www.pidgin.im/news/security/?id=67> | 19:22 |
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| zacharias | Hi, folks. | 19:49 |
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| zacharias | I hope this is not a FAQ, but my previous research didn't get me any results: Is there some mirror of the latest N900-firmware-files out there? Or does somebody now where to get them? Nokia-Servers seem to be down(?) | 19:50 |
| bef0rd | skeiron | 19:51 |
| bef0rd | ~mirror | 19:51 |
| infobot | it has been said that mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error | 19:51 |
| bef0rd | skeiron.org/tablets-dev | 19:51 |
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| zacharias | bef0rd: Ah, thank you very much! | 19:55 |
| bef0rd | np | 19:55 |
| zacharias | bef0rd: I guess Nokia is not going to re-offer those, are they? | 19:57 |
| bef0rd | I wouldn't know | 19:57 |
| zacharias | kk | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~skeiron | 20:02 |
| infobot | methinks skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ülease pester Nokia (via care, fb, whatever) since they are NOT SUPPOSED TO LET THAT SERVER DOWN | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please* | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please also send a mail to board@maemo.org with a rewuest to take care! | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang! | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | request* | 20:05 |
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| zacharias | DocScrutinizer05: I'll surely do. | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks! | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're welcome to mention you contacted council (Joerg) and they told you there's nothing they can or are supposed to do about it | 20:07 |
| zacharias | DocScrutinizer05: many thanks! | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that Nokia never annouced they'd take down ANY *.maemo.com domain/server | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please don't mention skeiron (or any other of the mirrors9 to them | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s(9)/)/ | 20:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm honestly wasted | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't even type anymore | 20:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | "maemo" shall be my epitaph | 20:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | insane. :-( | 20:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | (the unannounced downing) | 20:12 |
| zacharias | Ridiculous. »Uuuh, but we signed that contract to Microsoft with our bloood!« | 20:13 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | you missed pidgin advisory #68 :) | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 20:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://pidgin.im/news/security/?id=68 | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *burrp* | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | my affiliation to security news is only remote | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't even checked those | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just did a c&p to let whomever-it-may-concern know a bout it | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my todo list has no space for eating or sleeping since ~8 weeks now | 20:16 |
| narcos | Anyone got Python requests working on their Maemo? when running 'python2.7 setup.py install' I get a simple message of 'Aborted' (?!) | 20:16 |
| SpeedEvil | :-\ | 20:16 |
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| kerio | narcos: wat | 20:16 |
| kerio | which setup.py? | 20:17 |
| kerio | and why aren't you using pip? | 20:17 |
| narcos | kerio: Sorry - the setup.py from requests-foo.tar.gz | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you (maemo community) are just lucky i lost my job, otherwise nothing of all this shite of last 2 months got accomplished | 20:17 |
| narcos | kerio: Which package would pip be in? I don't see it | 20:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | eventually this must change | 20:18 |
| kerio | narcos: you basically should not install anything as a system-level library, except for distribute, pip and virtualenv | 20:18 |
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| kerio | and obviously, libraries from your distribution | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't sustain this operation mode for any much time longer | 20:18 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, are you also looking for a job in the meantime? | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no time | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-( | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, i forwarded my CV to Falk | 20:19 |
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| aap | ~ | 20:21 |
| n900-dk | Was iphh chosen for colo? | 20:21 |
| n900-dk | or still no decission? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure | 20:22 |
| narcos | kerio: I can't seem to find python-pip. I have easy_install, but it seems to be trying to install python2.5 modules | 20:23 |
| n900-dk | ohh, cool there is an update now :) Thx | 20:23 |
| kerio | narcos: python2.7 doesn't have a lot of support in maemo | 20:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89213 | 20:24 |
| kerio | you'll have to install distribute and pip manually | 20:24 |
| narcos | kerio: Alas why I was downloading and installing packages directly :) | 20:24 |
| narcos | ( python packages that is ) | 20:24 |
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| kerio | then /opt/python27/local/bin/pip install virtualenv | 20:24 |
| kerio | (as root) | 20:25 |
| kerio | then /opt/python27/local/bin/virtualenv somedirectory | 20:25 |
| kerio | then . somedirectory/bin/activate | 20:25 |
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| M4rtinK | the iphh guys are really nice :) | 20:25 |
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| kerio | then (as user) pip install whateveryouwant | 20:25 |
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| M4rtinK | but what about hardware failure ? | 20:25 |
| kerio | "deactivate" to leave the virtualenv | 20:25 |
| narcos | kerio: OK - I'm tryign that now | 20:25 |
| kerio | M4rtinK: falk lives 10 minutes away from the datacenter | 20:25 |
| M4rtinK | is the server from Nokia under warranty ? | 20:25 |
| M4rtinK | kerio: good | 20:26 |
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| narcos | kerio: Awesome, that worked :) | 20:38 |
| kerio | virtualenv is godly | 20:38 |
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| narcos | Actually still don't know what it is | 20:38 |
| * narcos Googles | 20:38 | |
| n900-dk | Any list on maemo.org of Council and Board members? | 20:39 |
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| narcos | kerio: Godly you say? Nice. | 20:39 |
| narcos | Hmm, or did it. | 20:42 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council http://hildonfoundation.org/about/ | 21:05 |
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| n900-dk | sixwheeledbeast: How to find without your help? | 21:08 |
| n900-dk | the link 'Community Council' in right panel on http://maemo.org/community/ links to some meeting minutes.. | 21:10 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk i see your point | 21:10 |
| n900-dk | I'm puzzled on what to find on mo and what to find on wmo.. | 21:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I updated the CC page so I knew it's location. There no info on the wiki for board tho. | 21:11 |
| narcos | kerio: Any idea why my installation of 'requests' via pip inside the virtual env failed? - http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=p3qSfWrq | 21:13 |
| narcos | "Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code -6 in /root/ve01/build/requests" | 21:13 |
| kerio | idk, maybe you're missing some library? | 21:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I suppose the wiki should be the most up to date due to the fact all can update it. | 21:14 |
| narcos | kerio: OK - I'll dig some more | 21:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | m.o always seems out of date. take the news section for example. | 21:16 |
| n900-dk | sixwheeledbeast: yes, it is kind of a joke. Maybe I should starting on the wiki from now on | 21:17 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | :nod: | 21:18 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | unless your looking for board info :) | 21:21 |
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| FIQ | hmm | 22:30 |
| FIQ | you know, on the top of the battery (opposite side of the contact), there's some kind of black shell.. I assume it's some kind of protective.. thing | 22:30 |
| FIQ | apparently it has disappeared completely on one of my batteries | 22:31 |
| FIQ | is this.. bad? | 22:31 |
| FIQ | battery seems to work fine, but uh, yeah | 22:31 |
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| Woody14619 | FIQ: Assuming you're talking about the N900, yes. It's just a plastic shell part to make it line up better and remain snug. | 22:37 |
| Woody14619 | FIQ: Most aftermarket batteries don't have it, as they want every mm for battery. :) | 22:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeled|away: could you use my tmo avatar picture for http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council ? | 23:08 |
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| kerio | wiki is sloooooooow | 23:10 |
| kerio | btw, didn't ivgalvez resign from the council, too? | 23:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I think so, yes | 23:23 |
| n900-dk | so the council members don't know who's in and out? :) | 23:25 |
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| * n900-dk wonders if the council could use some kind of secretary | 23:28 | |
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| FIQ | Woody14619: I see | 23:32 |
| FIQ | well no idea how it disappeared but I guess there's no problem then | 23:32 |
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| Woody14619 | kerio: Technically, to resign from Board one must do so in writing to the other members. So there's at least a few days window (postage). | 23:38 |
| kerio | fucking lawyers | 23:38 |
| Woody14619 | Council is more willy-nilly.... One can resign, hop in and out of elections... etc. :) | 23:39 |
| * Woody14619 pokes fun and waits for a slap from Doc. ; | 23:39 | |
| Woody14619 | Well.. since Board is a legal entity... it must be legal (since it could involve lawyers). | 23:41 |
| Woody14619 | Just want to make sure it's clear, since legally one thing is different from another. And if someone goes crazy with it, having such disctinctions clearly know is to our benefit as a whole. | 23:43 |
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| * Woody14619 drops out of lawyer mode. :) | 23:43 | |
| kerio | ah crap, you're a lawyer, aren't you | 23:45 |
| Aoyagi | Gentlemen. | 23:48 |
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| Aoyagi | Tomorrow, I'm finally getting a N900 \o/ | 23:48 |
| kerio | \o/ | 23:48 |
| kerio | you're quite late, aren't you | 23:48 |
| Aoyagi | Quite. | 23:48 |
| kerio | why were you here? | 23:49 |
| Aoyagi | To absorb the atmosphere. | 23:49 |
| kerio | apart from that? | 23:49 |
| Aoyagi | Absorb knowledge? | 23:49 |
| kerio | do you have a n9? | 23:50 |
| kerio | a n8x0? | 23:50 |
| Aoyagi | I have only N95, N97 and C2-00 ... | 23:50 |
| freemangordon | Aoyagi: congrats | 23:50 |
| kerio | then... why were you here? D: | 23:51 |
| kerio | i don't understand | 23:51 |
| n900-dk | Aoyagi: Why did you choose the n900? | 23:51 |
| * freemangordon likes "the n900" :D | 23:51 | |
| Aoyagi | kerio: Because I intended to buy an N900. I have intended so since December. | 23:51 |
| kerio | i see | 23:52 |
| Aoyagi | n900-dk: Linux, keyboard, no google. | 23:52 |
| kerio | Aoyagi: well, you kinda /have/ to use supl.google.com for AGPS | 23:52 |
| n900-dk | me too - but just thought new smartphone owners would choose something else this late i the n900 lifespan | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | no windows, no gates, apache inside :D | 23:52 |
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| Aoyagi | kerio: See, my absorbing of knowledge didn't seem to work so I have no idea what AGPS.... oh, A-GPS. | 23:53 |
| kerio | no google, keyboard only, final destination | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (slap) totally irrelevant sidenote: figue what we would have got now when hoping in and out of elections wasn't done by me | 23:53 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: what is supposed "keyboard only" to mean? | 23:54 |
| Aoyagi | For the record, I really like the high-end Windows phones, I just don't trust MS anymore :D | 23:54 |
| n900-dk | Aoyagi: and you trust Nokia?? | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we for sure had a one-man council now: Niel | 23:54 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: wait, what? | 23:54 |
| Aoyagi | n900-dk: I did trust them at the time when they made these phones. | 23:54 |
| Aoyagi | And I kind of still do. Even though the whole Ovi things makes me nauseated. | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: eh? | 23:56 |
| * Woody14619 only recalls one "one-man council", that being Rob at the end of the term before I became Council. As he was the only active Council member for most of his cycle. | 23:56 | |
| n900-dk | Aoyagi: but you do know, that they are abandoning it now? | 23:56 |
| kerio | of course they are | 23:56 |
| kerio | there's the windows store now | 23:56 |
| Aoyagi | You mean Maemo? | 23:56 |
| Aoyagi | Oh, you mean Ovi. | 23:56 |
| Aoyagi | No, I did not know that. | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: MT ans qwazix weren't in, ivgalvez resigned, and I would have quit long ago | 23:57 |
| Aoyagi | Not that it was relevant if they're abandoning that for MS store. | 23:57 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: oh, misread the "had" part | 23:57 |
| n900-dk | I mean maemo - guess there isn't much usefull for n900 on Ovi anyway | 23:57 |
| Aoyagi | hah | 23:57 |
| Aoyagi | Well, they have been abandoning Maemo for quite a while, haven't they. | 23:57 |
| n900-dk | guess you are right | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which means Nieldk was our only council member right now, and thus we basically were pretty screwed | 23:58 |
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| n900-dk | maybe angry birds is still on Ovi :) | 23:58 |
| freemangordon | n900-dk: maemo has been abandoned by nokia sisnce october 2010 | 23:58 |
| kerio | it is | 23:58 |
| kerio | apt-get install angrybirds | 23:58 |
| kerio | or something | 23:58 |
| freemangordon | *since | 23:59 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: All the more reason to get that referendum in place and the voting booth up again, to prevent just that. | 23:59 |
| n900-dk | that long? | 23:59 |
| freemangordon | PR1.3 | 23:59 |
| kerio | n900-dk: and yet, we (the community) are only getting in control of maemo right now | 23:59 |
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