| Woody14619 | So that, like with Board, < 3 active members triggers a new election. (And time-outs on missing meetings leading to dropping.) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| n900-dk | hmm, time fly when you have fun with your n900 :) | 00:00 |
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| Aoyagi | That I hope. | 00:00 |
| Woody14619 | Right now, worst case all of Board went away, 2 months later (eg 2 missed meetings by existing members) makes them all defacto out, and triggers a new election. Same should be there for Council, IMHO. | 00:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds reasonable | 00:02 |
| Woody14619 | (And is, in the Foundation Council portion of the Board Bylaws. We just need to pass a referendum to the effect that Council elections now function as defined by said version of those Bylaws. | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is a foundation council? | 00:03 |
| Woody14619 | And since changing those Bylaws takes a major effort and votes by Board and Council... | 00:03 |
| Aoyagi | ... this sounds like politics. | 00:04 |
| Woody14619 | Foundation Council is the Council body that was formed under Hildon Foundation to encapsulate the function of Council. | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't want to get encapsulated | 00:04 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619: are you sure you are out of lawyer mode? :P | 00:04 |
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| Woody14619 | I specifically ran the last election so that it followed the rules of both Maemo Council, and Foundation Council, so it would "work" under both rules, and thus could be considered one body elect with two "hats". | 00:05 |
| Woody14619 | The idea being that Council could then referendum itself to being Foundation Council after the break with Nokia, and follow those (slightly altered) rules for elections and such. | 00:05 |
| Aoyagi | Is there a wiki article on Maemo politics? | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Community council never been depending in its existence from Nokia, so why would it want to be dependant from HiFo? | 00:06 |
| kerio | Aoyagi: don't go there | 00:06 |
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| Aoyagi | No really, I find these things fascinating. | 00:07 |
| Woody14619 | Define dependent? Last I looked, Nokia was footing the bill for everything until January... | 00:07 |
| kerio | Woody14619: not tmo | 00:07 |
| freemangordon | kerio: includding TMO | 00:07 |
| kerio | oh, nokia was paying for it? | 00:08 |
| Woody14619 | True kerio, to some extent... TMO was initially ITT, separatly funded. But TMO has been getting funded by Nokia for some time now. | 00:08 |
| kerio | i see | 00:08 |
| n900-dk | Do we have an idea of longterm plans for maemo OS and community? | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's that one emergency hatch that the Nokia representative could nuke council when it acts extremely against community's interest or damaging to Nokia | 00:08 |
| Woody14619 | So yes, it existed politically as a separate item... As it does under HiFo. | 00:08 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, but HiFo lacks that really. The only "hatch" is has right now is the same one Council has against it. | 00:09 |
| freemangordon | which is? | 00:10 |
| Woody14619 | Both can call for a joint election of both bodies. So to "nuke" Council, they'd also take the risk of being booted themselves. | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the BIG nuke? | 00:10 |
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| freemangordon | ooh | 00:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why didn't you also join board, btw? | 00:11 |
| Woody14619 | I'll note it takes unanimous consent from the body to pull that off on one side or the other. (Another reason I was so-so on people running for both bodies...) | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sd69 bullied me out | 00:12 |
| Woody14619 | Right now, that hatch is only 1/2 effective. Since Council has not adopted the rules to match the bylaws (yet). | 00:12 |
| Woody14619 | Because, rightfully so, they've had better things to worry about. | 00:12 |
| kerio | hm, a friend of mine plays Nomic quite heavily, perhaps we could've asked him how to make unabusable bylaws | 00:12 |
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| Woody14619 | Though technically, were Council to act to the letter of the law (and trigger their own election) they could call for Council's re-election... given that they stand currently as a two-hatted body. (Maemo Council / Foundation Council) | 00:14 |
| kerio | Woody14619: wat | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/council's/board's/ | 00:15 |
| Woody14619 | thanks doc.. :) Yes, I meant council could trigger board's election along with their own if so desired. | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one thing's for sure: I dislike the term "Foundation council" pretty violently | 00:16 |
| Woody14619 | Rob was actually quite against that wording, but those on Board (via election) were good with it and put it into place as I wrote it (for that at least). | 00:16 |
| Woody14619 | I agree... but it was the only clear way of making Maemo Council and the new "body" distinct. | 00:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | did last council "approve2 those HiFo bylaws in any kind? | 00:18 |
| Woody14619 | If there's a desire, as noted, the referendum could simply copy/paste the rules for elections from the bylaws and pass those. | 00:18 |
| Woody14619 | The entire community did. There was a multi-hundred post thread on the topic, and well over 6 revisions to the document in a 3 month period. | 00:19 |
| Woody14619 | It was a primary topic in every Council meeting and in the minutes, and the blog post, for well over 3 months. | 00:19 |
| Woody14619 | And it was highly discussed here, thanks to one particularlly loud person who was calling it all a "huge power grab", spreading FUD about then current Council trying to make itself king of all Maemo. | 00:21 |
| Woody14619 | In particular, saying I was the lead person on it (which is true, I wrote a good chunk of the initial and revised leagleze of the bylaws), and that I was doing it all so I could "take over Maemo". | 00:22 |
| Woody14619 | You know... me... Who currently holds neither a Council seat nor a Board seat, and hasn't for some time now. | 00:23 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(Jesus... Look at that calendar. When are Council elections? When did it become mid-February?) | 00:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf been on tabletsdev.maemo.org | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ?? o.O | 00:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | There never was a "Maemo Council". | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly, what been there that's not on tablets-dev.nokia.com? | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather "was" on tablets-dev.nokia.com? | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just checked on skeiron, there's no backup of tabletsdev.maemo.org | 00:40 |
| Woody14619 | GeneralAntilles: Then what was it called? Just "Council"? Everything documeting it I've found has called it Maemo Council. But then I'm a relative noob, having only been here since the N900 (3-ish years) | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo Community Council | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google suggests http://www.xmarks.com/site/tabletsdev.maemo.org/nokia_N800.php etc, no such file on tablets-dev either | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | 00:41 |
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| * Woody14619 sees... | 00:41 | |
| GeneralAntilles | That's where the original document was | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please, help me out on this one, it's more important than legalese shite | 00:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa had an outline on his maemopeople.org blog before it became official. | 00:42 |
| Woody14619 | Without a time machine I can't help you Doc. I don't know what was on there, and all the focusing on it I could do wouldn't give me more info. | 00:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | tablets-dev was the flasher and FIASCO images | 00:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, tablets-dev.nokia.com | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I thought maybe somebody *recalls* about that place | 00:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have no idea about tablets-dev.maemo.org | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DNS stale IP | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | NOT a CNAME to tablets-dev.n.c | 00:44 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: will sort the wiki pic now | 00:44 |
| Woody14619 | It may have simply been a backup of the Nokia site? Were there ever custom rolled community images for older models? Maybe they were there? | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: thanks | 00:44 |
| Woody14619 | Having never looked, I really don't know.... Maybe Google cache can answer? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tabletsdev.maemo.org/os2007_hacker_edition.php | 00:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | kerio: ivan's not 100% stepped AFAIK (from TMO post) so i have not updated the wiki yet | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, no, no custom images. | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, ahhhh | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/deeec845e3 HMMMMMMM | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | The HE editions must've been on maemo.org | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Interesting | 00:46 |
| Woody14619 | I found a cache link to maemo-sdk-rootstrap_4.0beta_armel.full, linked under http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/unstable/chinook-beta/armel/MD5SUMS | 00:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/stepped/stepped down | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | My brain doesn't remember that far back. | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just no friggin .php | 00:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That means the OS2007 and OS2008 HE images and some SDK betas must've been there. | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't believe that was 5-6 years ago now. | 00:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-sdk-rootstrap_4.0beta_armel pattern not found | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >:-( | 00:48 |
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| Woody14619 | This is the cache info I get from google: http://tinyurl.com/tabdevmo | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /srv/developer.nokia.com/maemosdk/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_20.2010.36-2_armel.tgz | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /srv/developer.nokia.com/maemosdk/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_20.2010.36-2_i386.tgz | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | root@l2 ~ # locate maemo-sdk-rootstrap | 00:50 |
| Woody14619 | So, looks like it was a private backup of stuff already on SDK and t-d.n.c, plus a few custom images? | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia unofficial stuff, I guess. | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have to find that machine, i guess it's still around somewhere | 00:51 |
| Woody14619 | GeneralAntilles: Understand, when I say Council, or Maemo Council, or any permutation, I talk about the same thing. And I made great efforts to keep the Board and Council as separate entities. | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first poke my backup guys | 00:52 |
| Woody14619 | There have been numerious people calling for the removal of Council all together, saying there was no need for it with a Board. | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, Maemo was a Nokia trademark, so the elected body for the community couldn't be the "Maemo Council", thus the "Maemo Community Council" | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Texrat and SD69 started calling it the "Maemo Council" during their terms | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it stuck | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | since the whole mess is confusing anyway | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I didn't (and still don't :D) have the energy to argue about it. | 00:54 |
| Woody14619 | I see. Well. I don't see it as that confusing, or that huge of an issue really. | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, officially, it's the Maemo Community Council | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was a huge issue when Nokia had a trademark to actively protect. | 00:54 |
| Woody14619 | Though I do now wish I'd name the matching one in the Bylaws the Foundation Community Council, for no other reason than to match it. :) | 00:54 |
| Woody14619 | I can see that... | 00:55 |
| Woody14619 | Reguardless.... The concept is still the same. Though I do appreciate the correction, and will attempt to call it by its full name in the future. :) | 00:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://web.archive.org/web/20090718005147/http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/ | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, I'm not invested in the issue these days, but I figured you should be aware of the context. ;) | 01:02 |
| Woody14619 | And I appeciate that, GeneralAntilles. :) | 01:02 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: que? | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:01:00] <DocScrutinizer05> it looks identical to tablets-dev.nokia.com I guess | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:01:26] <brkn> anyway since we have a complete copy of tablets-dev.nokia.com tabletsdev.maemo.org is a duplicate | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:01:35] <brkn> it should be yes | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:01:57] <brkn> i stumbled upon that weeks ago | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:02:58] <DocScrutinizer05> that basically been the only question: are they identical? | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:03:51] <DocScrutinizer05> if yes, then I guess tabletsdev.maemo.org been "stage" for tablets-dev.nokia.com serverfarm | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-19 00:04:03] <brkn> with 99.9% certainty i say yes | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, discussing community council history. | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | Ah, read scrollback | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi Jaffa! :-) | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | Fun times | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | 'lo | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | On iPad Mini with full virtual kb. typing will be crap :) | 01:06 |
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| Woody14619 | lol :) well, saddy, I have to bow out reguardless. I have stuff to finish in the next hour, and then off to bowling. My team mates will be very upset with me if I show up late. ;) | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have fun | 01:08 |
| * Jaffa beds, far less rock n' roll, but more doc writing tomorroq. | 01:08 | |
| GeneralAntilles | 'Night | 01:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves at Jaffa | 01:09 | |
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| sixwheeledbeast | doc: pics on the wiki now, gn. | 01:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sixthanks | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now that's almost too much ;-P | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since my portrait is the one one higher than wide | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeled should put a laurel wreath on my head on that wikipage X-P | 01:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | center position and higher portrait than the others, YAY, embarrassing | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, in 8 weeks council term ends. time to drum up candidates | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [early notice] consider running for next council term! | 01:42 |
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| * GeneralAntilles drums up the impressment crew. | 01:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, we'll probably need them | 01:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rm_work|away, hate you. | 01:55 |
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| WizardNumberNext | just discovered some very strange behaviour with flac on n900. It behaves like switching channels, sounds like random, but it is not - it happens in exactly same pattern every time. Never have heard something like that. On desktop and laptop in those places I have mono on both channels - here it is switching from one channel to the other. Just letting you guys know, if it is undiscovered yet. I would upload sample somewhere, | 02:30 |
| WizardNumberNext | so you can test it | 02:30 |
| WizardNumberNext | it happens only on speakers, on headphones it is perfectly fine. | 02:33 |
| nox- | huh | 02:33 |
| nox- | how do you connect the speakers? | 02:34 |
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| Mekkis | is there any reason why I shouldn't add the SDK repositories to my N900's app manager? | 13:03 |
| vi____ | Mekkis yes | 13:04 |
| vi____ | the sdk repos install shit all over the place. | 13:04 |
| vi____ | This will fill your root partition | 13:04 |
| vi____ | making your n900 foobar. | 13:04 |
| vi____ | ...you could do it in a chroot though. | 13:04 |
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| Mekkis | vi____, so if I'm trying to compile a program that requires libx11-dev, I should just install the prereqs manually? | 13:07 |
| vi____ | You are trying to compile on the device? | 13:08 |
| Mekkis | I am... | 13:08 |
| vi____ | You are a nutter. | 13:08 |
| Mekkis | (or am I Doing It Wrong, and should I be creating a buildchain with cross-compiler on a PC?) | 13:08 |
| vi____ | ??? | 13:09 |
| vi____ | what is wrong with the scratchbox environment? | 13:09 |
| kerio | ~skeiron | 13:09 |
| infobot | from memory, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 13:09 |
| Mekkis | vi____, probably nothing, other than until just then, I didn't know of its existence. Where can I find more? | 13:10 |
| vi____ | ~sdk | 13:10 |
| infobot | The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com | 13:10 |
| kerio | Mekkis: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z | 13:10 |
| vi____ | ??? | 13:10 |
| vi____ | Mekkis: it makes everything so easy. | 13:10 |
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| Mekkis | I'll give it a try. | 13:11 |
| vi____ | Is it not funny that the noscript, an addon to protect you from spamverts and other shit has a web page that is riddled with dubious spamverts? | 13:11 |
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| MohammadAG | anyone good with routers? | 13:34 |
| vi____ | depends what you want to know, Mo. | 13:36 |
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| andre__ | I've used one before. | 13:41 |
| * kerio has one | 13:42 | |
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| MrPingu | Hi there | 14:03 |
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| narcos | Hey maemoers. I've been stuck for a while now, in trying to get Python requests installed. I'd really appreciate a hand. kerio helped me fantastically yesterday getting a virtualenv setup. From within my virtualenv I enter 'pip install requests', and get the error "InstallationError: Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code -6". The full output is here - http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=V6zzzq5S | 14:38 |
| narcos | Any help with this would be really appreciated. | 14:38 |
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| narcos | Perhaps, rather, could someone with Python2.7 installed try a 'pip install requests' to see if it work for them? | 15:03 |
| kerio | narcos: hm, my pip can't download requests | 15:06 |
| kerio | it just hangs | 15:06 |
| kerio | ah, here we go | 15:06 |
| kerio | it's really slow | 15:06 |
| futpib_ | as plan b, you can just get the code and put it into site-packages or near your code | 15:06 |
| kerio | InstallationError: Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code -6 in /home/user/req/build/requests | 15:07 |
| kerio | that's very useful, pip | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG | vi____, NAT | 15:09 |
| narcos | kerio: Ah, so same as me then :-/ | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG | I have two routers connected to each other | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG | one is an ISP supplied modem + router combo, the router part is crappy compared to the other one | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | the other one is a TP-Link WDR4300, which is only a router | 15:10 |
| kerio | narcos: "import requests" fails with an Aborted | 15:10 |
| kerio | and crashes python, or something | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG | the setup is Phone line -> ISP router -> LAN1 -> WAN on TP-Link -> LAN to others + WLAN | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG | so basically the ISP router is only used for one LAN, should I disable NAT on it? | 15:11 |
| kerio | narcos: you find the "requests" package in build/requests | 15:11 |
| narcos | kerio: I get the Aborted single line message when attempting to install it manually with 'python setup.py install' | 15:11 |
| kerio | narcos: i get "Aborted" when **importing the module** | 15:11 |
| narcos | kerio: Doh. | 15:12 |
| kerio | ok, the problem is urllib3 | 15:12 |
| AD-N770 | MohammadAG: I've just replaced my old linksys wrt-54gl for a TPL WDR4300 running openwrt yesterday | 15:12 |
| narcos | ahhh | 15:12 |
| kerio | it's really weird | 15:13 |
| AD-N770 | with a similar setup ;) adsl router -> tpl router -> ... | 15:13 |
| narcos | kerio: I'm sort of glad you're having the same problem, I feel less to blame. | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG | AD-N770, my WDR4300 sucks a bit, it can't be upgraded | 15:13 |
| kerio | oh, it's obviously still your fault | 15:13 |
| kerio | i hope you're ashamed of what you've done | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG | well, it can, but Warning:This version can only update the Israeli customized firmware , as the universal firmware from | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG | TP-LINK global website has some wireless channels which are not allowed by the government. | 15:13 |
| narcos | kerio: I am :-( | 15:13 |
| * narcos sits in the corner and thinks about what he's done | 15:14 | |
| kerio | now | 15:14 |
| kerio | why the hell does this package ship its own urllib3? | 15:14 |
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| AD-N770 | MohammadAG: upgraded to openwrt or to tpl firmwares ? | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG | I can't, it rejects it | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG | only takes Israeli image | 15:15 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: if you disable NAT you won't get any inbound connections though | 15:15 |
| kerio | put your inner router in the outer router's DMZ | 15:15 |
| AD-N770 | I think that with a ttl to rs232 and accessing to the boot loader you might be able to flash it | 15:15 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: even better, try to use your outer router as a pppoe modem - sometimes it works | 15:15 |
| AD-N770 | at least install openwrt the hard way | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, I did that | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG | the DMZ part | 15:15 |
| kerio | are there any configured forwards? | 15:16 |
| kerio | maybe disabling nat will also disable the dmz | 15:16 |
| kerio | routers, especially cheap ones (and ones that come from providers are *always* cheap) are seriously stupid | 15:16 |
| teotwaki | kerio: not always. | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, everything's working fine actually, I'm just wondering if the double NAT setup is a bad thing | 15:17 |
| kerio | fine, *most* but not all cheap routers | 15:17 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: meh | 15:17 |
| MohammadAG | it's a Netgear VVG2000 | 15:17 |
| kerio | by the way, why aren't you using it as your only router? | 15:17 |
| MohammadAG | cause I have no modem :( | 15:18 |
| kerio | i meant the outer one | 15:18 |
| kerio | it's not like the inner one is all customized and fancy | 15:18 |
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| MohammadAG | cause the inner one is a dual band router with 3 antennas and the outer one is a single band one with no antennas? | 15:18 |
| kerio | narcos: ok, it's a urllib3 problem | 15:21 |
| MohammadAG | another thing, how do I add dput support to a repository? | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG | since my server runs at home I can run whatever daemons I want, so might as well add inception repository upload support | 15:23 |
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| narcos | kerio: Ah ok - do you think it's something I can solve, or am I better off scraping requests/urllib3 and using urlib2? My application is quite intense in terms of number of requests, so I wanted keep-alive functionality of urllib3 | 15:26 |
| kerio | idk | 15:26 |
| kerio | you tell me | 15:26 |
| kerio | file a bug | 15:26 |
| narcos | kerio: OK will do :) How did you deduce it was a urllib3 issue? (details for the bug report) | 15:27 |
| kerio | narcos: pip install urllib3; python -c "import urllib3" | 15:27 |
| kerio | (requests' setup.py does an "import requests") | 15:28 |
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| narcos | kerio: requests' setup.py does an "import requests", or "import urllib3" ? | 15:29 |
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| kerio | narcos: urllib3 is a package inside requests | 15:29 |
| kerio | for some weird-ass reason | 15:29 |
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| narcos | kerio: OK, odd. I'll file a bug report now. Thanks for helping with this, I'd been struggling since we last chatted. | 15:31 |
| narcos | A thousand internet karmas for you. | 15:31 |
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| kerio | how i wish that bitcoins were more common | 15:35 |
| kerio | they're like internet karmas, but they can turn into money | 15:36 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I'm using urllib3 in modRana | 15:36 |
| M4rtinK | for the same reason - to reuse connections when downloading map tiles | 15:36 |
| kerio | maybe it's a python2.7 problem | 15:36 |
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| narcos | Hmm, I'd like to install strace, but don't see it in the repos | 16:10 |
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| narcos | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/strace#Packages gives empty links | 16:10 |
| narcos | nm, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/strace/strace_4.5.20-2.3maemo2_armel.deb | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 6000+0 records out | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 25165824000 bytes (25 GB) copied, 48.6864 s, 517 MB/s | 16:25 |
| kerio | where? | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on my PC | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/xxxxxx | 16:31 |
| kerio | 25165824000 bytes transferred in 3.773988 secs (6668231045 bytes/sec) | 16:32 |
| kerio | /dev/null is really fast | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 16:33 |
| kerio | besides, why isn't your /tmp a tmpfs? | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | linux-pa25:~ # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=4M count=6000 | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 6000+0 records in | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 6000+0 records out | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 25165824000 bytes (25 GB) copied, 1.22613 s, 20.5 GB/s | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: because only fools use their RAM for generic temporary crap | 17:00 |
| kerio | you're using precious, precious I/O! | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: what would be the rationale of an app storing sth to /tmp instead of keeping it in malloc()ed buffers, when /tmp is RAM as well? | 17:01 |
| kerio | so it's accessible outside too? | 17:02 |
| kerio | because it really wants a file? | 17:02 |
| kerio | idk | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, /tmp is not exactly the place to *share* files between processes | 17:03 |
| kerio | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/tmp-on-tmpfs Name: Lennart Poettering | 17:03 |
| kerio | ohoho | 17:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>We might need to patch a couple of packages not to store big files and files needing boot persistance in /tmp, but rather in /var/tmp<< rhat a blockhead | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) | 17:06 |
| Pali | Why is this mount established via a systemd unit file, instead of an entry in /etc/fstab?: We believe that /etc/fstab is the place to configure real file systems | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) | 17:07 |
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| Pali | WTF? | 17:07 |
| Pali | tmpfs should be in fstab too... | 17:07 |
| Pali | seems that lennart got good idea to move some parts from fstab to systemd... | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) | 17:07 |
| Pali | stupid idea from maemo --> generating fstab | 17:08 |
| Pali | lennart is better --> do not generate fstab and do not use it | 17:08 |
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| Pali | instead call mount from systemd | 17:08 |
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| Pali | when will lennart delete /dev/? | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~poettering | 17:09 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' | 17:09 |
| Pali | normal user do not need to call mount | 17:09 |
| Pali | so also so not need /dev filesystem | 17:09 |
| kerio | Pali: device files are outdated and no needed in modern linux desktops | 17:09 |
| kerio | just do your whole I/O through dbus | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON!! | 17:10 |
| Pali | kerio, shut up, this channel is public and logged | 17:10 |
| kerio | hehe | 17:10 |
| Pali | lennart can read logs and implement it | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lennart doesn't need any logs to come up with such VS | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BS* | 17:11 |
| Pali | GKH now implementing AF_DBUS protocol family for implementing better high speed dbus | 17:11 |
| Pali | so I belive that lennart will not use it for deprecating /dev | 17:12 |
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| kerio | ...i don't even | 17:14 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: lol, what'd I do now? :P | 17:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, the G+ post about the autocross. :P | 17:14 |
| rm_work | ah :P | 17:14 |
| rm_work | do you autocross? | 17:14 |
| rm_work | and/or want to? :P | 17:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't. | 17:14 |
| kerio | a fucking socket type for poettering | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't have the car or the money for it. | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I'd love to some time, yes. | 17:15 |
| rm_work | You don't need a fancy car | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lived vicariously through racing sims for years and years. :D | 17:15 |
| rm_work | :P | 17:15 |
| rm_work | You can race in ANYTHING | 17:15 |
| rm_work | you can get a decently running Miata for between 2k and 4k depending on how nice the interior and paint are | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | True | 17:16 |
| rm_work | and that is a great autocross car | 17:16 |
| rm_work | even stock it's super fn | 17:16 |
| rm_work | *fun | 17:16 |
| rm_work | and that's pretty cheap for *a car* | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 17:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Still, time, money. | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lazy. | 17:16 |
| rm_work | yeah, I'm learning how to be a mechanic | 17:16 |
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| rm_work | I bought a Miata for super cheap, replaced the entire drivetrain myself | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | NA? | 17:17 |
| rm_work | yeah | 17:17 |
| rm_work | 91 | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's an NC sitting in the garage here, but it's automatic. D: | 17:17 |
| rm_work | T_T | 17:17 |
| rm_work | the NCs look nice | 17:17 |
| rm_work | but I like the popup headlights the NAs have :P | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah they do | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | a bit too heavy | 17:18 |
| rm_work | plus they're a little lighter | 17:18 |
| rm_work | heh yeah | 17:18 |
| rm_work | NA is right around 2k | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Popup headlights - just one more thing to break | 17:18 |
| rm_work | meh | 17:18 |
| rm_work | the popup headlights on Miatas basically NEVER fail | 17:18 |
| rm_work | the ones on mine and the ones on my friend's 96, even badly taken care of, are still super strong | 17:18 |
| rm_work | the *engine* broke before the headlights did :P | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 17:19 |
| rm_work | does the NC have a manu-matic mode? manual shifting with paddles or something? | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's . . . not great. | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I prefer driving my Camry just because of the transmission. . . . | 17:21 |
| rm_work | yeah, well, my ralliart is an "automatic manual" but shifting it myself cut like 8 seconds off my time | 17:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 17:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Didn't we have an argument about automatic/manual when you bought that thing? | 17:22 |
| rm_work | yes | 17:22 |
| rm_work | it's still a manual | 17:22 |
| rm_work | it just... automatically controls it | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does it have a clutch pedal? :P | 17:23 |
| rm_work | but the advantage being, in this case, i manually controlled it and it shifts super quick for me :P | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Isn't it a DSG? | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (/tmp) WHY THE FUCK poettering is poettering /tmp instead of suggesting /ramdisk and making those apps patched that want to use THIS, instead of redefining /tmp and making apps patched that DON'T want it???? | 17:24 |
| rm_work | errr, kinda similar | 17:24 |
| teotwaki | I wouldn't get automatic unless it's a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Maserati/$supercar | 17:24 |
| rm_work | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Clutch_SST | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, not quite the same thing as an automatic with manual override. | 17:25 |
| teotwaki | I've tried a lot of different automatics, and other than on the BMW M5, I've not enjoyed any of them | 17:25 |
| teotwaki | Worst still being French automatics. | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Electro only hybrid FTW | 17:26 |
| teotwaki | What's an eletro-only hybrid? | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Electric bullshit is boring | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Heavy, boring to drive, expensive to buy and maintain. | 17:28 |
| rm_work | I like the tesla roadster :P | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a concept used in German rail locos in the early to mid 1900s, which been so successful it been not allowed to be used by Germany after WW-ii iirc | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1 speed transmission is not fun. :P | 17:29 |
| rm_work | i have to say, the shifting in the ralliart with the SST isn't as FUN as in the miata I've been driving (a real manual), but it's waaaaay better/faster at shifting than I'll probably ever be | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get a strong diesel angine driving a dynamo | 17:29 |
| rm_work | so, much more effective | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I drive for fun, not to be "effective" | 17:29 |
| rm_work | well, when you're driving for times, effectiveness can BE a sort of fun | 17:30 |
| rm_work | if the SST shaves a second off my times, that could mean the difference between 1st and 8th place sometimes | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doing the same diesel->dynamo thing in a car, then putting a 100kW brushless into each of the 4 hubs would probably result in something nice | 17:32 |
| otypoks | top | 17:32 |
| teotwaki | The Toyota GT86 seems very interesting | 17:33 |
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| teotwaki | relatively inexpensive, rear wheel drive, 200 bhp, very, very fun to drive. | 17:36 |
| teotwaki | What more do you ask for? | 17:36 |
| rm_work | oh hey, europe people -- i'm going to europe for two weeks in May, with 3 other people. How should the four of us get around? train? ryanair? rent a car? | 17:37 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: train is generally shit unless you go from big city to big city. London -> Paris or Brussels is fine by Eurostar (and as fast/less hassle than plane) | 17:38 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: but finding flights from one spot to another will be expensive | 17:38 |
| rm_work | hrm | 17:39 |
| rm_work | Ryanair looked to be like 30Euro per person for some flights | 17:39 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: car rental will limit your range, as you'll have a relatively limited distance allowance | 17:39 |
| rm_work | which is not too bed considering Eurail wants $500Euro per person for two weeks | 17:39 |
| teotwaki | $500Euro? | 17:39 |
| teotwaki | 500 eurodollars? | 17:39 |
| rm_work | err | 17:39 |
| rm_work | 500 EUro | 17:39 |
| rm_work | I started typing the price in dollars and then reconsidered :P | 17:40 |
| teotwaki | well, the problem you're going to have is that Ryanair doesn't actually land near big cities | 17:40 |
| jaska | and airports have.. airport security :) | 17:40 |
| teotwaki | so for example, Barcelona is actually Girona, which adds an hour or three of bus before you're in Barcelona | 17:40 |
| rm_work | i found a car rental for 1000 Euro that was pickup in Frankfurt and dropoff in Madrid (our landing and departure airports) | 17:40 |
| teotwaki | roughly the same everywhere, maybe not 3 hours. | 17:40 |
| rm_work | ok, that's a good note | 17:40 |
| teotwaki | 1000 euros for 3 weeks? | 17:41 |
| rm_work | 2 weeks | 17:41 |
| teotwaki | That's very expensive, young drivers? | 17:41 |
| rm_work | plus then have to factor in gas | 17:41 |
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| rm_work | no | 17:41 |
| teotwaki | Then 750euros should be the max you pay | 17:41 |
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| rm_work | probably it is "pick up at frankfurt airport" -> "drop off at madrid airport" | 17:41 |
| rm_work | that is causing the extra expense | 17:41 |
| rm_work | or the fact that we're out of country? | 17:41 |
| teotwaki | well, OOC dropoff does cost a lot | 17:42 |
| teotwaki | where do you live? | 17:43 |
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| rm_work | Texas :P | 17:45 |
| teotwaki | well | 17:47 |
| teotwaki | with my company card | 17:47 |
| teotwaki | and your profile | 17:47 |
| rm_work | company card? | 17:49 |
| teotwaki | I get an audi a4 with unlimited range, one free gas refill, free gps, pick up at frankfurt airport and drop off at madrid airport, for $1200. | 17:49 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: we have a deal with europcar | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FRA->madrid should be available for not too much per plane | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you book early | 17:50 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: they want to discover europe, flying doesn't help with that :P | 17:50 |
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| rm_work | teotwaki: lol well, that helps me only if i can use your company card :P | 17:50 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: well, you can't. Just find a better deal than what you have. | 17:50 |
| rm_work | heh | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then I suggest to get dirt cheap flight FRA-Sevillia | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and drive by car from there | 17:51 |
| teotwaki | why would they fly into frankfurt to fly out of there? | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | weather in Germany is shit, as probably is in Madrid | 17:51 |
| rm_work | right now? or in May? :P | 17:51 |
| teotwaki | Weather's fine in Madrid at that time of year. | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, in May it's beautiful... in Sevillia ;-) | 17:52 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: I live in Perpignan, if you swing by, give me a holler, I'll buy you guys a beer. | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there is *beer* available in Perpignan? :-o | 17:52 |
| rm_work | :P | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sorry, Frankonia here | 17:53 |
| teotwaki | haha | 17:53 |
| teotwaki | http://vandb.fr/catalogue/7-bi%C3%A8res | 17:53 |
| rm_work | we may be through there, wanted to check out rome / florence and then go through marseille and down to barcelona | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | best beer district of the world | 17:53 |
| rm_work | and you're right on the way across the coast | 17:54 |
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| teotwaki | rm_work: there's not much to see in marseille :) Drive by, stay far. | 17:54 |
| teotwaki | Marseille has the same tourist appeal as Detroit, frankly. | 17:54 |
| rm_work | lol | 17:54 |
| rm_work | well, we'd like to see somewhere that's more normal, i think | 17:55 |
| rm_work | to get an idea of what the country is like just... normally | 17:55 |
| rm_work | sometimes tourist stuff gets old | 17:55 |
| teotwaki | If you want to spend the night at a touristy area, and have fun, I'd recommend Palavas Les Flots | 17:55 |
| teotwaki | ah | 17:55 |
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| rm_work | not to say we want to spend the whole time doing that :P | 17:55 |
| teotwaki | Then go up to Ardeche some where and camp | 17:55 |
| rm_work | but it's on the way between rome and barcelona | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: or as Frankfurt ;-D | 17:56 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: haha | 17:56 |
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| rm_work | Frankfurt was cheap to fly into :P | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet it was, it's one of 2 major airports | 17:56 |
| rm_work | and i've been to Berlin before, thanks to Nokia :P | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd prefer Berlin to Frankfurt every day | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Frankfurt is.... boring | 17:58 |
| rm_work | yeah Berlin was pretty awesome | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | there is major problem with both of those | 17:58 |
| jacekowski | they speak german there | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's its most pleasant property | 17:58 |
| rm_work | jacekowski: lol, i speak German... badly... :P | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at both locations everybody speaks english | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too | 17:59 |
| rm_work | I would imagine :P but I also can understand / speak enough German to survive | 17:59 |
| rm_work | well... assuming I want to go to the Library | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlike in France, Italy, Spain | 18:00 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: here's what I'd do, depending on the budget, obviously: Arrive at Frankfurt, train to Amsterdam, train to Belgium (Brussels or Bruges are nice). Here, two options, either fly to Milan, or grab a train to Paris and another train to Milan. | 18:00 |
| rm_work | yeah, Brussels was in my plan, definately | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | i would take train over plane any day | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depends | 18:01 |
| rm_work | well, is this ridiculous 500Euro 2week Eurail pass worth it? | 18:01 |
| jacekowski | train leaves almost from my doorstep, there is plenty of space inside and no luggage restrictions | 18:01 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: from there, grab a car, drive down to Madrid, but instead of just going round the coast (which is boring), make a hook through Lyon (which is a nice city, especially by night), have a stop at Montpellier, which is another very nice city (really beautiful/hip), then go through to Barcelona and finally Madrid. | 18:02 |
| rm_work | How expensive is it to grab a train ride like that, if you just show up at the train station that day? | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rm_work: prolly not, since it restricts your trains to the slow ones, afaik | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: (plenty of space) where are you living, dude? :-) | 18:03 |
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| jacekowski | a lot more than on a plane | 18:03 |
| rm_work | yeah Ryanair gives you like, zero free baggage, lol | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ICE is not much difference to a plane, except you maybe find no seat | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack for baggage | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | and you can get electricity on the train | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | and interwebs | 18:04 |
| rm_work | where would I find out how expensive those individual train rides are? | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, the first applies to many planes as well, the second not to all trains | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | rm_work: depends on the country | 18:05 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: The reason for Barcelona is that the Sagrada Familia is something you won't get to see often in your life (pretty much like the Colosseum, just less old, I guess) | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | rm_work: http://www.sncf.com/en/passengers http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | rm_work: where are you going exactly? | 18:05 |
| rm_work | jacekowski: still figuring it out | 18:05 |
| jacekowski | rm_work: http://www.bahn.de/i/view/GBR/en/index.shtml | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rm_work: for germany look into "Bahncard50" and "*25", it might be worth it | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even for a single ticket, particularly when you are 4 | 18:06 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: karls ruhe to frankfurt - what's the best way of doing that? | 18:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: no idea, I usually don't do that. But I *guess* there's a direct train which hsould be pretty convenient | 18:07 |
| rm_work | http://goo.gl/maps/7pcB0 | 18:08 |
| jacekowski | amsterdam | 18:08 |
| jacekowski | nice place | 18:08 |
| rm_work | that's a quick sketch based on input i got from people earlier but really mostly following teotwaki's advice :P | 18:08 |
| jacekowski | you can get some drugs there and prostitues are cheap | 18:08 |
| rm_work | which happens to line up with our stuff eventually | 18:08 |
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| rm_work | lol | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rm_work: also get "Fahrplan" app for Germany ;-D | 18:09 |
| rm_work | I have actually been to Amsterdam :P also thanks to Nokia | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's using DB | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DeutscheBahn web app | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | rm_work: and if you book in advance you can get flights for like £15 sometimes | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | or even less | 18:09 |
| rm_work | yeah | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | where are you from? | 18:09 |
| rm_work | jacekowski: Texas | 18:10 |
| jacekowski | ahm, yeah, no guns allowed in eu | 18:10 |
| rm_work | lol | 18:10 |
| teotwaki | rm_work: http://www.tgv-europe.com/en/train-europe | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yippiahyeee | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 18:10 |
| rm_work | originally I am not from Texas, just been living here for a few years now :P | 18:10 |
| rm_work | but i like it for the most part | 18:11 |
| rm_work | rather be on the west coast though -- california or Washington | 18:11 |
| jacekowski | plenty of trigger happy people there | 18:11 |
| rm_work | jacekowski: i own a few pistols and a few rifles myself <_< | 18:11 |
| rm_work | but i had those before I moved down there | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MD134D | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT | 18:12 |
| rm_work | should I bring a cowboy hat with me and wear it around europe? :P | 18:12 |
| jacekowski | not really | 18:12 |
| jacekowski | when you're going? | 18:13 |
| rm_work | two weeks in the middle of May | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>The gun was originally specified to fire at 6,000 rpm, but this was later lowered to 4,000 rpm.<< | 18:13 |
| rm_work | lol, would love to shoot one of those :P | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i would love to be able to *afford* it | 18:14 |
| jacekowski | rpm? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 8firing one) | 18:14 |
| rm_work | rounds per minute | 18:14 |
| jacekowski | ahm | 18:14 |
| jacekowski | how much does one round cost? | 18:14 |
| rm_work | probably about $1 | 18:14 |
| jacekowski | 6k in one minute | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~1$ ? | 18:15 |
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| rm_work | at least in TX that's what rounds for those kinds of guns go for | 18:15 |
| rm_work | I don't know what it's shooting though... | 18:15 |
| rm_work | if it's just like, 9mm NATO rounds, that's not as bad | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 7.65 | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Cartridge7.62×51mm NATO | 18:16 |
| rm_work | hrm, don't know that one | 18:16 |
| rm_work | i'm not like, a gun nut :P | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or search "Mythbusters" | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | they had some fun with one of those too | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (youtube) | 18:18 |
| rm_work | heh | 18:18 |
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| Estel^ | vi____, ping | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rm_work: anyway, no chance you'll find one of those in EU ;-) | 18:24 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well clearly, using /tmp instead of a hypothetical /ramdisk is better for retrocompatibility | 18:25 |
| kerio | that's what lennart is about | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: WTF? | 18:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | He's trying to forcefeed new semantics of /tmp down everybody's throat, and suggests those who can't live with new limitations this implies shall patch their app (to use other random location to store e.g. large files). So that is a sane concept of backwards compatibility? | 18:26 |
| kerio | >sane | 18:27 |
| kerio | >poettering | 18:27 |
| kerio | methinks you can only pick one | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah [sane] and [poettering] are disjunct | 18:27 |
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| kerio | lately, most discussions here end up in "meh, fuckin nokia", "meh, fuckin board" or "meh, fuckin poettering" | 18:29 |
| * rm_work doesn't know who poettering is | 18:29 | |
| kerio | ~poettering | 18:29 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia been extremely generous to day | 18:29 |
| teotwaki | cancer is egocentric? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't blame them too much, in general | 18:30 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: abuse victims often tend to justify the abusers | 18:30 |
| kerio | :P | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: attribute it to my poor English | 18:30 |
| * andre__ dislikes the poettering bashing. | 18:30 | |
| teotwaki | kerio: Helsinki syndrome? | 18:31 |
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| kerio | rm_work: lennart poettering, the dude behind pulseaudio, systemd and the udev that only works with systemd, avahi | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure | 18:31 |
| kerio | andre__: why not? | 18:33 |
| andre__ | You'd like to see such use of your name, just to express disagreement with technical decisions? | 18:33 |
| andre__ | feels pretty childish. | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, at least he has a record to ignore all sound arguments against his projects. So odds are he ignores bashing as well | 18:34 |
| andre__ | I miss the logic in that sentence. :) | 18:36 |
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| andre__ | so because people don't care I can bash them? Yay. | 18:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | andre__: to stay honest, his decisions, though usually poorly backed up by technical reasoning, often tend to feel like "brain's plan how to conquer the world" | 18:36 |
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| andre__ | That's an opinion and totally fine. I only criticized using his name as an adjective synonym for something negative. | 18:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or more straight, he doesn't give a thing about backwards compatibility and how many app devels need to patch their stuff to adopt his new brilliant ideas where linux should move to | 18:38 |
| louigi | hey guys! I am having problems installing from and updating extras-devel | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a rogue mindset in my book | 18:38 |
| louigi | it downloads the same file several times, starts updating and then says - failed to download <app> | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | louigi: | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirrors | 18:39 |
| infobot | [mirror] http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error | 18:39 |
| kerio | andre__: if he didn't like it, he shouldn't've been so poettering | 18:39 |
| louigi | DocScrutinizer05, thank you sir | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | louigi: np, yw | 18:39 |
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| louigi | DocScrutinizer05, another question, if I may... I tried playing with CSSU features. But nothing I change there seems to do anything. Namely, rotation. What does it do? Should it make any app rotate? | 18:41 |
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| andre__ | again, disagreeing on background compatibility is no good reason for childish use of names... | 18:43 |
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| deepy | I recall seeing a deprecated function named nobodyElseUsesThisFunction at some point | 18:44 |
| deepy | Wish I could remember where | 18:44 |
| kerio | louigi: did you install cssu stable or cssu testing? | 18:44 |
| louigi | kerio, stable | 18:44 |
| kerio | cssu stable is meant to be indistinguishable from the latest nokia release, apart for bugfixes | 18:45 |
| louigi | kerio, oops, does it mean I will not see any cool stuff if I stay on stable? | 18:46 |
| kerio | meh | 18:46 |
| kerio | less security vulnerabilities is cool | 18:46 |
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| louigi | i wish the camera bug would be fixed, where even if the setting is set to Flash Off, it will still use the flash on the first shot | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | louigi: you can enable most of the "cool stuff" on CSSU stable | 18:52 |
| kerio | fwiw, nicocam doesn't have that bug i think | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | louigi: (flash) I don't know if that's been fixed in nicocam used in CSSU-testing instead of stock camera | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 18:53 |
| louigi | DocScrutinizer05, I tried CSSU Features, but for sure rotation did not work out. Is there any config app I can use? | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | louigi: the config apps (2) that are available for CSSU tweaking are either non-comprehensive or outright bitrotten and borked | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | louigi: please see wiki pages about how to enable "cool stuff" in CSSU-S via tools like gconftool etc | 18:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | editing transitions file with arbitrary editor of your choice is a great method | 18:55 |
| louigi | DocScrutinizer05, got ya, will do | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just doublecheck you don't introduce problems that casue HildonDesktop to segfault on startup | 18:56 |
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| louigi | yikes | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since otherwise you might be screwed | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use BM, as suggested on CSSU main wiki page | 18:57 |
| louigi | ok! | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "easy" to recover from such config bootloop issue, using BM | 18:57 |
| louigi | %) | 18:57 |
| louigi | gotta do some reading on that stuff | 18:58 |
| Aoyagi | http://legiscan.com/IL/bill/SB1614 | 18:59 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Hi all, not a happy bunny today | 19:01 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hardware issue on my main N900 | 19:01 |
| kerio | :( | 19:01 |
| kerio | musb port, modem or something else? | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: thanks for wiki edit. What's your hw problem? May we help? | 19:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: No problems | 19:03 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | well... | 19:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | it's started this morning using opera and screen went black | 19:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | after a reboot the picture is grainy and jumpy | 19:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | with horizontal fuzzy lines | 19:04 |
| kerio | ew, sgx failure | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yay | 19:05 |
| kerio | it's usually not permanent though | 19:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | just finish work going to start checking it out now. | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please *immediately* configure your AV-out for usage with your TV | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and check | 19:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | just this second doing that | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also check if sliding kbd in/out changes the screen's atrifacts | 19:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | tv-out seems ok, sliding keyboard and power key stops the fuzzyness for a second | 19:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | eeeew | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like flat plastic cable / connector defective | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reboot and see if it fixes stuff | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if feasible without touching device prior/during reboot | 19:08 |
| rm_work | so have they released a sailfish/jolla image for N9/50 yet? it's frustrating cause they use that device for all their demos and yet there is no image for us to use T_T | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rm_work: yeah :-/ | 19:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | on reboot nokia logo is perfect for 2 seconds and then does fuzzy | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YAY | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that's clearly hw defect then | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :´( | 19:10 |
| kerio | why were you happy | 19:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: could it be just a partial disconnection? | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | B2B-connector loose | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or broken | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or framebuffer issue in SoC | 19:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | is it fixable and were do I start first, doing a backup via tv out now. | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DSP, whatnot | 19:11 |
| kerio | hm, does backupmenu enable the tvout? | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | start with carefully disassembling... | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err | 19:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | normal backup not backupmenu | 19:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | contacts are the most important tbh | 19:12 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | i have nearly everything on uSD anywho | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | start with a 3cm wide trip of plain paper *carefully* pushing it in between kbd and display from open kbd side | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gently touching the flat cable | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | strip* | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stripe? | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: overclocked/undervolted? | 19:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | nope 125-600 kp50 | 19:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | sr 1&2 | 19:15 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | paper cause completely black screen but tv-out ok | 19:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | that good :) | 19:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hopefully loose ribbon? | 19:18 |
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| Estel_ | vi____, ping | 19:28 |
| * Estel_ is also interested about sixwheeledbeast's problem | 19:28 | |
| Estel_ | hm, as vi____ is absent - I have problem with xbindkeys, that doesn't want to work via /etc/event.d/ - I want to run it as *user*, on every boot | 19:28 |
| Estel_ | once, vi told me a way by editing "some file" somewhere to include it. I did it on my main device, and completely forget how to achieve it | 19:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | interested? | 19:28 |
| Estel_ | any ideas, how to "properly" run thing as user on every boot? | 19:28 |
| Estel_ | yea, what happened | 19:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | scrollback? | 19:29 |
| Estel_ | maybe we could help somehow | 19:29 |
| Estel_ | sorry, got dc'ed | 19:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok | 19:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | horizional grainy lines on screen, tv-out ok | 19:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | now poking with piece of paper has made the screen black but backlight on | 19:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | tv-out ok | 19:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Estel_ ^^^ | 19:32 |
| Estel_ | just went through chanlog | 19:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | k | 19:32 |
| Estel_ | I would bet on flex cable damaged over borked SoC/DSP | 19:32 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I hope, damaged over loose? | 19:33 |
| Estel_ | I don't exactly get what DocScrutinizer05 meant to achieve with that paper - if he wasn't talking about disconnecting flex gently | 19:33 |
| Estel_ | during disassembly | 19:33 |
| Estel_ | lose is quite impossible, but who knows, still no idea why piece of paper over normal dissasembly and reconnecting | 19:33 |
| Estel_ | I would be afraid of cutting flex with that paper, if it's too sharp (really can happen!) | 19:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | to diagnose before dissammesbly | 19:34 |
| Estel_ | ah | 19:34 |
| Estel_ | disassembly = 2 minutes ;) | 19:34 |
| Estel_ | anyway | 19:34 |
| kerio | is flex *that* weak? :s | 19:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/dissammesbly/disassembly | 19:34 |
| Estel_ | best option would be to conenct another screen module (with own flex) to filter out things on motherboard, but I suppose you don't have few modules around like me | 19:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | nope | 19:35 |
| Estel_ | kerio, most of the times it isn't, but in some circumstances... | 19:35 |
| Estel_ | I have seen flex 50% cut via paper | 19:35 |
| Estel_ | guy used name card, though | 19:36 |
| Estel_ | (paper one) , but little harder than your regular A4 xero paper) | 19:36 |
| Estel_ | s/harder/thicker/ | 19:36 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: (paper one) , but little thicker than your regular A4 xero paper) | 19:36 |
| Estel_ | but just a little | 19:36 |
| Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, no friends/family with N900 to swap modules for a second? | 19:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | this one hasn't been apart yet, I have two n900's | 19:37 |
| Estel_ | w00t? | 19:37 |
| Estel_ | then take module from 2nd one | 19:37 |
| Estel_ | and attach it to "broken" one | 19:37 |
| Estel_ | (screen module) | 19:37 |
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| Estel_ | it's just 6 screws and flex connector | 19:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | the other is working so not for parts | 19:38 |
| Estel_ | be carefull with attaching flex connector, can be tricky if not done before | 19:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ideally | 19:38 |
| Estel_ | just to diagnose | 19:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | are they sourcable? | 19:38 |
| Estel_ | attaching it's screen module to "broken" one for test won't damage working one | 19:38 |
| Estel_ | well, other options is to buy new flex and go through pita of replacing it on screen module | 19:39 |
| Estel_ | with possibility to get no results, if it's fault on MoBo, after all | 19:39 |
| Estel_ | I would for sure swap screen module between 2 N900, to diagnose | 19:39 |
| Estel_ | fastest and most safe method | 19:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | oh, i thought the ribbon was replacable on it's own | 19:40 |
| Estel_ | it is, somehow | 19:40 |
| Estel_ | but you need to dissasemble screen module too. Not undoable, not very hard | 19:40 |
| Estel_ | just harder than diagnosing via replacing whole module | 19:40 |
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| Estel_ | screen module got 6 regular screws | 19:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | i see | 19:41 |
| Estel_ | two of them require slider to be positioned at the middle, to be reachable | 19:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | i have had one apart before 6 month or more ago to do uUSB | 19:41 |
| Estel_ | (some people fail to notice them, and only take out 4 screws, then wonder why it doesn't want to get opened) | 19:41 |
| Estel_ | well, just swap those modules and check - if "broken" one works with new module, and "working" one got same problems, then you an be sure it's flex | 19:42 |
| Estel_ | I have seen simillar results due to borked flex | 19:42 |
| kerio | are there replacements for the flex? | 19:43 |
| Estel_ | but there is always possibility that it's hardware on MoBo in your case (I doubt it, but can't be sure without testing) | 19:43 |
| Estel_ | sure | 19:43 |
| Estel_ | although more expensive that they should be | 19:43 |
| Estel_ | still, glad that we have chinesee copying it, considering how niche N900 is | 19:43 |
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| Estel_ | so, any ideas how to run thing as "user" on every device boot? | 19:44 |
| Estel_ | /etc/event.d/ run things as root... | 19:44 |
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| Estel_ | I can't belive no one else tried running things as user automatically on boot? | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: yes, I second Estel_ on his rationale about diagnosing | 19:47 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, btw i wasn't criticising your idea about paper (unless someone manage to cut ribbon), just wondering what it was for? curiosity | 19:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | will have a go asap, thanks all :) | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to test if B2B connector has a wonky contact | 19:48 |
| Estel_ | moving flex to check if it makes artifacts to fluctuate? | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 19:48 |
| * Estel_ nods | 19:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *gently* | 19:49 |
| Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, np, yw | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with *thin* (normal) paper | 19:49 |
| Estel_ | not for my nerves, I'm little over-reactive when it comes to that flex | 19:49 |
| Estel_ | torn it apart once, during normal assembly | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a bitch | 19:50 |
| Estel_ | without any valid reason, btw, it just decided to die | 19:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | but it wouldn't be an N900 without it | 19:50 |
| Estel_ | yea, I "patented" way to connect it saftly, since - require quite acrobatic grip of N900 and unnatached module between fingers at correct angle | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once they got a tiny crack, they go RAPP and off it is | 19:51 |
| Estel_ | allowing connection via fingers of 2nd hand, no tools required and no pressure to cable. Loooks funny, though | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and gives your arms/wrists aches | 19:52 |
| Estel_ | s/saftly/safely/ | 19:52 |
| Estel_ | kinda :P | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway no other way to plug it in | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my first one I thought I will *never* again get it plugged | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile I think I usually can plug that critter in as little as 5 minutes | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you have to know it doesn't take much pressure if it fits snugly | 19:56 |
| Estel_ | hehe, btw, my today's "exercise" - disassembling N900 in moving train (without table) | 19:56 |
| Estel_ | (needed to check smth re replacement body) | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess insertion force for that B2B-con is ~50g | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so don't push it too hard to make it snap in, it will probably break when you do | 20:00 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 curses Nokia EE for that particular design | 20:01 | |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why couldn't they use a stronger cable? | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | technical reasons | 20:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | sillt question, why would terminal application stop the fuzzy screen? | 20:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/sillt/silly | 20:09 |
| kerio | because it's mostly black? | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't | 20:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | i was thinking that | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless, yeah, black maybe | 20:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | the more black on the screen the less fuzziness | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | less crosstalk between lines | 20:10 |
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| Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, not insisting, as it's your choice after all, but testing it via swapping screen modules would take you ~5 minutes to go there and back again | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | instead of all that guessworking | 20:16 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I am just backing up my devices and I open terminal to check something | 20:17 |
| * Estel_ nods | 20:17 | |
| Estel_ | make video of fuziness and advertise it as new theme utilising shaders | 20:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I will be doing above tomorrow evening when I am not on call | 20:17 |
| Estel_ | and video effects rendered on 3D surfaces ;) | 20:18 |
| Estel_ | BTW I once had idea for small prank | 20:18 |
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| Estel_ | during messing with VNC and most effective server settings, I got ones, that made Witcher 2 almost-playable on N900, through VNC | 20:19 |
| Estel_ | no problem with dialogues and small fights | 20:19 |
| Estel_ | even resolution was matching N900's one (RED engine is pretty versality, and runs this modern game pretty well on 800x480) | 20:19 |
| Estel_ | so, I though about recording video of "playingn witcher 2 on N900 | 20:20 |
| Estel_ | write in description about running it through wine in optimized mode, and no sound + little framedrops due to lack of optimizations yet | 20:20 |
| Estel_ | and throsw it at android/apple kids | 20:20 |
| Estel_ | s/throsw/throw/ | 20:20 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: and throw it at android/apple kids | 20:20 |
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| Estel_ | or on TMO on 1st april ;) | 20:21 |
| Estel_ | well, I see that others doesn't see it as funny as I thought :( | 20:22 |
| kerio | gimme a port of the cube2 engine to GLES instead | 20:25 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | question:- if restoring a backup from the default app, does it remember package versions? | 20:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | or will it install the latest ie devel version | 20:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | if devel repo enabled that is | 20:29 |
| kerio | i think it's just a package list | 20:29 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | so it will pull the latest version then | 20:30 |
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| Estel_ | why not backupmenu? | 20:33 |
| Estel_ | default backup app is PITA | 20:33 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | have no trouble with it | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | default backup has a list of apps and repos to re-install | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no versions | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but a per-app repo iirc | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which doesn't mean it will install tha app from that particular repo if a "better2 repo got enabled by another app to restore | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all disclaimer "IIRC" | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, no versions. That I'm rather sure about | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think HAM has no concept of versions at all | 20:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | except for dependencies which get handled by apt anyway | 20:49 |
| kerio | oh apt <3 | 20:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ta, don't fancy installing a load of unstable versions of apps by accident. | 20:49 |
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| * kerio found extras/extras-testing/extras-devel to be very similar to debian stable/testing/unstable | 20:50 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, KVM on a really fast machine is soooo sweet and convenient | 20:52 |
| kerio | is it the first über-machine you've used in a while? | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | boot a virtual machine with a full KDE in like 10s | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | install a new system from DVD in less than 5 minutes | 20:53 |
| kerio | from DVD or from "DVD"? | 20:53 |
| kerio | because i fail to believe the former | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clone VMs in less than 10s | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from a commercial DVD made of plycarbonate | 20:54 |
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| kerio | damn, i'm more impressed by the read speed rather than the cpu speed | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you probably also would doubt i'm able to clone that 8GB VM in a few seconds | 20:55 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, that's fairly reasonable | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | you can't boot that fast from dbd | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | dvd | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't boot from DVD | 20:55 |
| kerio | (and it's not really 8gb, kvm is smart enough to only save the memory pages that were used :) ) | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | dvd's have seek time measured in years | 20:55 |
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| kerio | jacekowski: indeed | 20:55 |
| kerio | it's the optical media speed that i can't believe | 20:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the optical media got read in (40x?) read ahead, and no seak time at all i guess | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so installation went thru in <5min | 20:56 |
| kerio | hm, maybe opensuse optimizes dvd installs like mad | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they do | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they use images | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then apply deltas only | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for standard install delta is zarro | 20:57 |
| kerio | well that's cheating :P | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *good* cheating | 20:58 |
| kerio | and besides, you were able to clone a VM in less than 10 seconds | 20:58 |
| kerio | doing pretty much the same from dvd took 5 minutes | 20:58 |
| kerio | let optical media die | 20:58 |
| kerio | we have the technology! | 20:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I indeed wonder what's cheaper: a DVD or a 8GB uSD | 21:50 |
| eyescream | When I run mutt in the terminal, it returns an error in .muttrc saying "set: unknown command". Apart from that it seems to work as expected. What could be causing this? | 21:50 |
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| Woody14619 | did you have speedpatch installed? I recall a very old bug from that being uninstalled that left such messages as a side effect. | 21:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 patents r/o uSD with mask coded fixed content | 21:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | EEEEK speedpatch | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~speedpatch | 21:53 |
| infobot | hmm... speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~crappatch | 21:53 |
| infobot | well, speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] | 21:53 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: more importantly, is a dvd more cheap, or is 8gb on your hd cheaper? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: how would a magazine send me a 8GB slice of my own HDD? | 21:54 |
| n900-dk | eyescream: you run mutt on n900? | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | depends. HD go bad. DVD do too, but are easier to protect long term. uSD, even easier. :) | 21:55 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: srsly, get a better adsl >:c | 21:55 |
| eyescream | n900-dk: I'm trying to, yes. | 21:55 |
| Sicelo | n900-dk: i do as well. :P | 21:56 |
| * Woody14619 loved mutt, back in the 90s. | 21:56 | |
| Apic | I still do. | 21:56 |
| n900-dk | Why? | 21:56 |
| eyescream | Sicelo: Do you get an error saying "set: unknown command" by chance? | 21:56 |
| eyescream | n900-dk: Because mutt is awesome and modest isn't. | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | Now adays though, I'm more on squirelmail and openexchange. Just more accessable. | 21:56 |
| n900-dk | hmm | 21:56 |
| Sicelo | for my imap mailboxes, sometimes Modest 'refuses' to show some folders. mutt shows all, consistently | 21:56 |
| Sicelo | eyescream: no | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | modest isn't that bad really... Never had issues with it missing IMAP folders. But then I also have it setup to archive off-line. So it's more like POP than IMAP. | 21:57 |
| n900-dk | gmail via web works perfect for me | 21:57 |
| eyescream | Sicelo: I see. I found someone else with the same issue, but no solution. It seems to work just fine, though. | 21:58 |
| eyescream | n900-dk: I dislike web interfaces and google. | 21:58 |
| Sicelo | Woody14619: it's ok, yes. but yeah, this is a real issue. it's ok with gmail, etc.. but there's one provider for which i can only see inbox, even though imap is set. mutt opens all folders for same provider | 21:58 |
| Sicelo | eyescream: maybe you've set 'exotic' options? | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | Sounds like a provider issue to me. Some providers only show Inbox externally to prevent long-wait syncs. | 21:59 |
| n900-dk | eyescream: just because it's google? | 21:59 |
| Sicelo | Woody14619: mutt displays all, on same device, same connection | 21:59 |
| eyescream | Sicelo: I doubt it. It fails on line 1 with "set: unknown command", but it does seem to set all the folders. | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | Hmm.. May be how they mark which are selectable or not. | 22:00 |
| eyescream | n900-dk: Because of their policies, yes. I don't use google, either. | 22:00 |
| Sicelo | maybe it's Modest that misses such | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | IF you get a chance, may be worth pointing a full IMAP client at it, like squirel mail. It shows which boxes are marked for use and which are not. Some just grab all, reguardless of marking (mutt) while others honor markings. | 22:01 |
| Sicelo | ok. will do. | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | So it may be modest is honoring those box marks, and not getting them, where mutt is just grabbing everything. | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | (Another reason I like squirlmail.. even if it's just to setup IMAP options sometimes.) | 22:02 |
| * Sicelo ppens easy-deb.. hope i have a full imap client there | 22:02 | |
| Woody14619 | I know modest obeys those, as I have two work folders that I specifically don't sync, and have forwarding rules for "low priority" e-mail. | 22:02 |
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| Sicelo | maybe for next iteration of modest, a menu could be provided to select/subscribe to folders | 22:04 |
| Sicelo | :) | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(So my n900 isn't going off all night from the night crew sending mail about plants and other such stupid things...) | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | That would be nice actually. It's one of the few things modest doesn't provide. | 22:05 |
| Sicelo | Woody14619: imap-idle :( | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | But since it obeys markings, you can actually tell the provider to mark it as non-subscribed and modest will follow it. So, it's half way there. | 22:05 |
| BCMM | Woody14619: alarmed can change profiles on a schedule | 22:05 |
| eyescream | While I'm at it.. Is there a way to make Modest give notifications for all subfolders within inbox? | 22:06 |
| BCMM | Woody14619: however if you want people to be able to wake you with a phone call that is less useful | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | It should automaticly if they're subscribed and have new content. | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | Yeah... That's the issue. I need to know if something catches on fire... so... I just don't care about the plants. :) | 22:06 |
| eyescream | Woody14619: They are subscribed (and thus show up), but no joy on the notifications. | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | Set fire to the plants all you want... so long as they're not near the servers... | 22:07 |
| eyescream | I only get notifications for the main inbox. | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | that's off eyescteam, as I get notifications about side boxes all the time. Though I don't have them off the Inbox. I have them as separate side folders. Maybe modest only informs about top-level boxes? Most of mine are top-level execpt my archives. | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | Would have to test that to see if it's the case... | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | If so, I'd call that a bug/feature. :) | 22:09 |
| Sicelo | i can confirm eyescream's point. | 22:09 |
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| Woody14619 | Interesting to know. Maybe I'll move those folders and rules to be in my Inbox then, so I can not get beeped on them, but still be able to see/read them if I want to remotely. ;) | 22:11 |
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| Woody14619 | One mans bug is another mans feature. ;) | 22:11 |
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| Woody14619 | Speaking of.. work beacons.... later. :) | 22:12 |
| freemangordon | guys - https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/modest/merge_requests/13 | 22:12 |
| luf | freemangordon: what's there? | 22:13 |
| eyescream | freemangordon: Thanks for the input. | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | "Notifications for new messages in all folders: | 22:13 |
| Sicelo | cool. | 22:13 |
| Sicelo | btw, what's the blocker with imap-idle? | 22:14 |
| eyescream | When can we expect that to be included by default? | 22:14 |
| freemangordon | eyescream: repo access | 22:14 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: hmm? | 22:15 |
| Sicelo | i mean in modest.. i personally do miss it | 22:15 |
| eyescream | freemangordon: I don't follow. Could you please elaborate? | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: I got that for modest. Missed the "blocker" part. There is a patch in CSSU, but disabled or what? | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | eyescream: merlin1991 needs access to CSSU repos on maemo.org | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | to be able to push a new update | 22:17 |
| Sicelo | imap idle? hmm, i'm on cssu stable. is it on testing only? | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: NFC, that is what I am asking for :) | 22:17 |
| Sicelo | lol. asking from me? it's definitely not there in Stable CSSU. there's only Offline IMAP | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: is that "imap offline folders"? | 22:18 |
| n900-dk | anyone found a way to speed up vnc connection to n900? screen refresh is quite slow for me :/ | 22:18 |
| eyescream | freemangordon: I see. I guess that could be.. whenever. | 22:19 |
| Sicelo | there's an "Enable offline IMAP support for this account" in the settings of each account | 22:20 |
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| * freemangordon smells a wizard's fight :D | 22:21 | |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: hmm, what is that supposed to do? | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | oh, wait | 22:22 |
| freemangordon | this is offline storage | 22:22 |
| Sicelo | don't know, heh. but i always thought it saves messages on device | 22:22 |
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| freemangordon | Sicelo: yes. and it has a bug that it stores them in /home/user IIRC | 22:23 |
| freemangordon | well, not exactly bug, but still | 22:23 |
| Sicelo | the day we get imap-idle, ;-) | 22:24 |
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| luf | Is here someone who wants to test keepassx v2.0.3 alpha on n900? :) | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | luf: did you fix the dialog bug? | 22:27 |
| luf | I'm too lazy to write in on TMO :( | 22:27 |
| luf | freemangordon: yes and I created merge request but no response yet | 22:27 |
| kerio | where are maemo applications supposed to keep user data? | 22:28 |
| kerio | MyDocs? | 22:28 |
| kerio | or is ~ ok too? | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I guess it depends | 22:28 |
| n900-dk | luf: could you change that to lastpass pls ;) | 22:29 |
| kerio | freemangordon: preferences | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | in ~/ | 22:29 |
| luf | n900-dk: no idea what is lastpass ;) | 22:29 |
| kerio | /home isn't reset when flashing just COMBINED, right? | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | iirc yes | 22:30 |
| kerio | yes is ambiguous there! :( | 22:30 |
| n900-dk | https://lastpass.com/ | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | yes, it is not reset | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | kerio: the problem with modest keeping the data in ~/ is the size of ~/ | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | so it can easily fill it in case of big imap folder | 22:31 |
| Pali | if you move emails to MyDocs do not forget to remove that new folder from tracker | 22:32 |
| Sicelo | good point, heh. :P | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I guess this is not possible because of USB storage mode | 22:32 |
| Pali | so moving mails is not possible :-) | 22:33 |
| luf | n900-dk: I don't use it so I'm not interested in ... | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I was talking about offline imap | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | hmm, and where are pop3 mails stored? | 22:34 |
| luf | n900-dk: I don't like to store my passwords (even encrypted) somewhere in the internet. | 22:35 |
| Pali | freemangordon, in /home/user too | 22:36 |
| freemangordon | well, it seems like WONTFIX then :) | 22:36 |
| Sicelo | what directory under /home/user/ ? | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | "/home/user/.modest/" | 22:37 |
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| n900-dk | luf: I understand - I find it quite nice and very convenient | 22:41 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, I hope this patch has a setting :) If every mail to any of the ML's I'm subscribed to fires a notification I'll go mad | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: ask Pali :D | 22:43 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 22:44 |
| Pali | qwazix: no settings implemented yet, but it could be simple | 22:44 |
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| freemangordon | qwazix: though I guess it will remain the same as it now - you get "group" notifications | 22:45 |
| qwazix | I suppose that "skip the inbox" imap filter is used by many people to filter ML's so I think I shouldn't be alone | 22:45 |
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| luf | Ok I fight with my laziness and I created new thread on TMO for keepassx v2 :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1323931 | 23:53 |
| kerio | Keep Ass X 2: Ass Harder | 23:56 |
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