| ShadowJK | what's the issue with storing duplicate readings anyways? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Estel_ | kerio, btw, the guy who installed webos just meant webos games manager | 00:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | there is no good method to be precise - every method is imperfect as electronics (inluding battery) are imperfact | 00:00 |
| kerio | oh, preenv? or whatever it's called | 00:00 |
| Estel_ | kerio, yea | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_spectroscopy | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | works for batteries too, and with extra stuff lets you really accurately predict cell behaviour. | 00:02 |
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| WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: I didn't look yet, but sounds like you see the thing anyway | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | but in practice, it,s largely irrelevant | 00:03 |
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| WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: enquiry: do you have any idea if, all additional voltages in n900 are created by some smps or something a lot sipler | 00:04 |
| WizardNumberNext | s/sipler/simpler/ | 00:05 |
| infobot | WizardNumberNext meant: SpeedEvil: enquiry: do you have any idea if, all additional voltages in n900 are created by some smps or something a lot simpler | 00:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | there are about a dozen SMPSs | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | and quite a few more linear supplies | 00:10 |
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| eccerr0r | more accurate digital power measurement? use more analog: integrator circuit :D | 00:27 |
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| eccerr0r | I was wonderring about how accurate my newly installed "smart" electric meter, I think it also does sampling to measure usage... I wonder what they'd do if I drew a large amount of current a millisecond after each sample for a few milliseconds... :o | 00:30 |
| eccerr0r | "free electricity!" | 00:30 |
| eccerr0r | if they used an integrator this would be much harder to do... it may well use it too, but hard to tell for sure without taking it apart. | 00:31 |
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| merlin1991 | eccerr0r: in the general use case smart electric meters have a granularity of 15 minutes | 00:34 |
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| merlin1991 | Though it isn't uncommon to have them down to 1 minute | 00:34 |
| kerio | ...that can't be right | 00:34 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: why? | 00:34 |
| eccerr0r | nah, that's the upload rate, not sample rate | 00:34 |
| kerio | you can't sample every 15 minutes | 00:34 |
| kerio | it would be too imprecise | 00:35 |
| eccerr0r | the sample rate must be must higher, you'd get aliasing like mad | 00:35 |
| merlin1991 | hm no idea about the sample rate, I was thinking about the storage end | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | my meter had a led, it blinks 100 or 1000 times per kWh, i forget exact number | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | has* | 00:36 |
| eccerr0r | err..grok error...clarify please? | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | My smart meter. It has display where you can cycle through accumulated day and night kWh, current rate, etc. it also has a led that blinks | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | the rate of blinking depends on rate of consumption | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | It also has S0 output, but electric company has blocked it | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | So I have a little gadget staring at the led, hooked up to my computer, logging electricity use | 00:39 |
| eccerr0r | kWh=energy consumed so how does this cause the LED to blink? | 00:40 |
| eccerr0r | pulse code? blinks faster when more KW is being used? | 00:42 |
| eccerr0r | maybe blinks per time period would make more sense | 00:42 |
| eccerr0r | almost flattened my n900 battery, ready to measure power draw on microusb... hopefully it will draw more than 500mA else the mystery continues... | 00:45 |
| eccerr0r | almost made it 24 hours realtime without charging... bah. | 00:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | eccerr0r: typically, they blink 1000 times per kWh | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | so, twice a second is 7.2 kW | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | and typically, it says on the meter how often it blinks | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | eccerr0r: for more information, hit maxim.com | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | macim-ic.com | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | and go and look at their energy metering chips | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (([2013-02-16 23:00:07] <ShadowJK> what's the issue with storing duplicate readings anyways?)) exactly nothing at all. Oversample by factor 2.5 and ok | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but after al it's really meaningless since bq27200 does proper integration on its own, via hw | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so delta-NAC is better than any integral of oversampled electrical-current readouts | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is's called gas gauge for a reason | 01:15 |
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| eccerr0r | "1000 times per hour per kilowatt being used" that would seem more like an accurate description... blinking something like KWh where it's monotonically increasing (except if you have PV or your own reactor) didn't make sense | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | per kWh, not per kw. | 01:27 |
| eccerr0r | unit analysis doesn't work if it's KWh. | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | if it blinked 1000 times per kilowatt, it would blink 1000 times when you plug in a 1kw load, and not again | 01:27 |
| eccerr0r | if it's KWh your LED would blink faster and faster as you reach the end of the month, and then you'd have to reset it | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | err, no | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | '1000 times per kWh' does not mean '1000 times per kWh since the start of the month' | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | 1000 times per kWh = one blink per Wh, or once every 3600J | 01:29 |
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| eccerr0r | ok that makes more sense, yes you would get more blinks as you use more power, just not all at the same time. | 01:34 |
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| eccerr0r | I think it'd make more sense described as 1 blink per watt hour. "1000 blinks" seems like a unit in itself hence making it confusing. | 01:38 |
| joga | I dunno, it sounds pretty useful to me though I don't have one, just to take a brief glance and you know if it's about normal or way less or way more | 01:42 |
| joga | actually here I can get some fancy graphs of my usage straight from the electric company website since they installed remotely readable meters a while back, I think it updates every hour or so at least | 01:43 |
| eccerr0r | well it's basically counting RPMs of the traditional meters, one rotation every Wh (or is it that way?) | 01:44 |
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| jacekowski | imagine fair usage policy on electricity | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | so you can only use 10kWh a month and then you are cut off | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | but you still have to pay full price | 01:51 |
| joga | sounds fair | 01:51 |
| eccerr0r | btw "1000 times per hour per kilowatt being used" is the same as "1000 blinks per kwh" :) | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | eccerr0r: kWh is the normal billing unit | 01:52 |
| jacekowski | or your current would be reduced to 1A max | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: that happens in some places | 01:52 |
| joga | maybe there would be more incentive to actually make good use of electricity | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Greece? | 01:52 |
| joga | or, just other stuff :p | 01:52 |
| eccerr0r | that "fair usage policy on electricity" is the crap we have to deal with on our wireless bills :P | 01:53 |
| joga | seems my consumption was about 260kWh last month, and after I moved I've lost data of previous years in the fancy graph, heh | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | mine was 400 or so. | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | due to winter hearing | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | heating | 01:55 |
| eccerr0r | this is sad: I used about 555 KWh last month, and I'm below the average of similar households in my city... | 01:57 |
| jacekowski | electric heating? | 01:57 |
| eccerr0r | and I have gas heating. | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | that's a lot | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes | 01:58 |
| eccerr0r | yes it is a lot. | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | eccerr0r: what are you wasting your electricity on | 01:58 |
| eccerr0r | plus they filtered out all electric heating homes | 01:59 |
| joga | my sister's fridge had some malfunction that made her bill like 6-8x | 01:59 |
| eccerr0r | The only things I do know about is that I run two computers 24/7 | 01:59 |
| jacekowski | computers don't pull a lot | 01:59 |
| eccerr0r | I do cook (electric) and electric dryer. | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | depends on the sort | 02:00 |
| eccerr0r | but furnace and HWH is gas. | 02:00 |
| joga | I run one computer 24/7 and a couple of others maybe most of the day | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | my server is a raspberry π | 02:01 |
| joga | it's a laptop with a busted screen though so it doesn't draw that much | 02:01 |
| joga | ah, I've one of those too but unfortunately not enough mem for around 100 users heh | 02:01 |
| eccerr0r | hmm... actually one of my computers uses around 90KWh/month | 02:01 |
| joga | or, maybe could do with it but not that well | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I would recommend you get a plug in power meter | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | then go round all your appliances, plugging it in for a day | 02:02 |
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| eccerr0r | I can't measure my dryer and stove. but I have decent estimates of my computers already... | 02:02 |
| eccerr0r | (and don't have a power meter... just a guesstimate with a multimeter) | 02:02 |
| eccerr0r | oh... and dishwasher... but usually do not use the heater in that so it's not nearly as bad. | 02:03 |
| eccerr0r | just that the duty cycle of the dryer is fairly low. | 02:04 |
| eccerr0r | same with microwave and stove... I really don't know. | 02:04 |
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| eccerr0r | if they sold electricity in 10KWh chunks, use or lose, I'd have to go buy a big battery bank to store energy for the summer... | 02:12 |
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| MrOpposite | Argh | 02:18 |
| MrOpposite | WHY do google have 2 different API's for tasks and calendars? | 02:18 |
| MrOpposite | and by that, I mean REALLY different API's | 02:18 |
| Pali | MrOpposite, for calendar(s) google has standard caldav (webdav) API | 02:19 |
| MrOpposite | Pali, yeah, and there are plenty of applications for maemo to sync with google calendar | 02:19 |
| Pali | but for unknown reasons tasks are not available in google caldav :-( | 02:20 |
| MrOpposite | I'm currently trying to modify erminig to include tasks | 02:20 |
| Pali | MrOpposite, use syncevolution | 02:20 |
| qwazix | AIUI there's no standard for syncing tasks apart from exchange | 02:20 |
| qwazix | or maybe SyncML | 02:20 |
| Pali | syncevolution has support for caldav | 02:20 |
| MrOpposite | Hmm | 02:20 |
| qwazix | and Google didn't even have a tasks api till recently | 02:21 |
| Pali | syncml is going turned off on google servers | 02:21 |
| qwazix | both syncml and activesync on google never supported tasks | 02:21 |
| MrOpposite | Pali, well, syncevolution still doesn't handle google tasks | 02:21 |
| Pali | yes, because of google... | 02:21 |
| MrOpposite | but maybe it's easier to develop a plugin that allows for tasks for syncevolution? | 02:22 |
| Pali | uff, I do not know, but maybe will be easier to develop application which will create caldav server | 02:22 |
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| Pali | webdav is extension to http protocol | 02:22 |
| MrOpposite | yeah, I know | 02:23 |
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| MrOpposite | but I don't feel like developing applications that require 3rd party equipment | 02:23 |
| qwazix | If you just want task sync and not specifically google tasks you can try mooha server | 02:23 |
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| MrOpposite | I want my n900 to connect to google directly. | 02:24 |
| Pali | hm, is not there already application which simulating caldav server for google tasks? | 02:24 |
| MrOpposite | I want as few points of failures as possible | 02:24 |
| MrOpposite | if google fails, my calendar is inaccessable eitherway | 02:24 |
| MrOpposite | If my n900 fails, I won't have any use for the calendar on it anyway | 02:25 |
| MrOpposite | But if the 3rd party caldav server that connects to google fails, it will just be bad | 02:25 |
| qwazix | mooha server is a little php syncml server, doesn't connect to google, but you can sync tasks between devices. Prolly not what you want, but I haven't find anything better to sync tasks on N900. | 02:27 |
| Pali | MrOpposite, google tasks caldav "server" can be started on n900 | 02:33 |
| MrOpposite | hmm? | 02:33 |
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| Pali | what about this? https://github.com/matthewbauer/caldav-to-gtasks | 02:37 |
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| MrOpposite | Yeah, but if I still need another application for tasks, I could just as well use the same application for both tasks and the google calendar | 02:39 |
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| eccerr0r | Ohhh...kaayyyy... this is baffling, with the n900 totally empty, it refuses to charge with my d+- shorted test jig, but the AC10C charges fine... | 03:35 |
| eccerr0r | the AC10C is running at 5.68mA at 120V ...that's way too low | 03:38 |
| eccerr0r | well, let it sit for a bit, maybe it will pick up the pace in a bit... | 03:39 |
| eccerr0r | need to figure out why it would not charge with the test jig... | 03:40 |
| eccerr0r | I need to see the 120VAC jump to around 30-40 mA minimum I would hope... | 03:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | odd | 03:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a) 40*120??? b) I honestly doubt your meter is properly measuring the extremely non-ohmish input current such a SMPS is drawing from mains | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~5.68 * 120 | 03:50 |
| infobot | 681.6 | 03:50 |
| eccerr0r | yes PF could be an issue but it wasn't that far off when measuring another SMPS with a resistive load | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | * 0.85 (efficiency of charger) * 1.5 (inaccuracy of your meter for the imaginary component of mains current) | 03:52 |
| eccerr0r | either way, if you convert that to 5V, that's way less than 800mA | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | * 0.85 (efficiency of charger) * 2.4711 (inaccuracy of your meter for the imaginary component of mains current) | 03:52 |
| MrOpposite | WOOHOO! | 03:53 |
| MrOpposite | I just got my tasks from google | 03:54 |
| MrOpposite | now... let's put them into my n900 shall we? | 03:54 |
| eccerr0r | even at 2.4711 (which has to have been pulled out of a rear end) it's still way off 800mA secondary, indicating I'm not charging quickly at all... | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like "YAY, I tasted the whip from my mistress" | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~5.68 * 120 * 0.85 * 2.4711 | 03:56 |
| infobot | 1431.656496 | 03:56 |
| eccerr0r | that's now milliwatts | 03:56 |
| eccerr0r | convert that to amperes | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BS | 03:56 |
| MrOpposite | "Seems like I'm not charging, quickly at all... quickly at all... quickly at all..." "Stupid underpowered flanders" | 03:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | err, sorry, you might be right | 03:56 |
| eccerr0r | "might"??? | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, get proper tools to investigate this. We adviced you which tools those are | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if your USB is broken, we can't help from remote | 03:59 |
| eccerr0r | if it charges at all, can the USB be broken? | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can witness my device is charging fine from AC10, with more than 500mA | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 04:00 |
| eccerr0r | what's it say on the killawatt? | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | myhulbarb froddles | 04:01 |
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| eccerr0r | nice that the ac10c is down to 0.31mA when it's disconnected from the n900... that's pretty good... not even 1mA | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | modern power adaptors can be a few dozen milliwatts idle | 04:08 |
| eccerr0r | yeah i've seen worse, this is the best one I've seen so far that I've measured | 04:11 |
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| eccerr0r | this battery charger SMPS brick is 1.4W... awful. | 04:13 |
| * SpeedEvil is pondeimg making a qi charger | 04:14 | |
| SpeedEvil | they are ridonkulous prices. | 04:14 |
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| eccerr0r | WOAH | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qi charger? | 04:23 |
| eccerr0r | the battery died! didn't charge at all... plugged in another battery and back into the ac10c... now I got a peak of 15mA on 120V... | 04:23 |
| eccerr0r | hmm | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 04:23 |
| eccerr0r | The usb port looks intact as far as I can tell though, it may be the only explanation | 04:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | get bq27k-detail resp bq27200.sh | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get charge21.sh | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is all handwaving | 04:24 |
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| eccerr0r | now I can even see the power dropping and rising on the 120V AC meter when I turn the display on and off... | 04:25 |
| eccerr0r | this is utterly nonsense... | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: it's a near field charger, in the 100-200khz range. and a dumb cw doesn't work. | 04:26 |
| eccerr0r | guess i'll have to charge this dead bl5j up a bit so it can power the n900 enough to allow charging | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | in near dead mode, it will only charge at 10ma or so | 04:27 |
| eccerr0r | the battery is at 3.3V, which is not too bad, should be safe to charge at full rate (but my external charge jig I was using for my broken 5230, won't go that high) | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, you're assuming too much that's not based by facts. E.G N900 charges fine even with flat battery | 04:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't need power from battery to charge | 04:31 |
| eccerr0r | well, facts based on what's known, but not based on the problems I'm seeing... | 04:31 |
| eccerr0r | I had it plugged in and the unit still powered down...something is definitely wrong or flaky. | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xy? | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or do you now conclude from that observation that you need power from battery to charge battery? | 04:33 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not impossible for weird charging to be caused by a partially dead USB | 04:33 |
| SpeedEvil | in fact, common | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what I said | 04:33 |
| SpeedEvil | or cable, of course | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | parasitary/phantom series R | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | causing an over-all high-Z of charger | 04:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | all visible with charge21.sh | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW: USB semi-broken | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | either cable or plug or receptacle contacts or receptacle pins | 04:37 |
| eccerr0r | not sure where I saw it, might be misinformation on the web implying that it required cpu intervention to program the bq24150 | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same goes analog for D+/D- | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's correct | 04:38 |
| eccerr0r | and the cpu is only poweredfrom the battery... | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but bq24150 doesn't need programming to charge | 04:38 |
| eccerr0r | well i hope that would be the case. | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover | 04:38 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | emergency charging mode, independent of CPU | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's one of the reasons why N900 has no OTG - the TP65950/twl4030 early silicon revisions didn't support flatbatrecover, so they had to change the charging or at very least the USB PHY | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which resulted in the drivers for OTG not working with the new hw | 04:45 |
| MrOpposite | flatbatrecover... hmm | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which in turn resulted in USB-cert not granting the "OTG" stamp | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which meant they hat to swap from micro-AB to micro-B receptacle | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | had* | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which finally resulted in no more chance to ever get an OTG stamp, so they binned the drivers | 04:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (they also didn't even bothar anymore for OTG on circuit development, so the hw has some other roadblockers that make true OTG/hostmode impossible now) | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly they didn't connect the ID pin to the new phy | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the new PHY (1707) has no sw emu for ID pin | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the MUSB-core in OMAP has no sw emu for true hostmode either, it needs a signal from PHY for that | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | hence nasty hacks | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but the new PHY has proper detection of D+/- short in hw, and a pin to drive the bq24150 into fastcharge mode and switch on steady amber on indicator LED | 04:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so with D+/- short the PHY and bq24150 can charge battery without any support from CPU | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (to 3.6V only [or somesuch] and only for 32 minutes, but that's usually enough to charge battery to a level where device can boot and continue charging under CPU control) | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | unless the battery is very old | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | when ESR can disrupt things | 04:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | high ESR also can cause very fast end-of-charge so N900 wouldn't eat any more current from USB | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | despite actual charge level of cell being pretty low and only sufficient for a few minutes maybe | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | likewise high ESR will cause early shitdown during discharge, even when charge level of cell is not yet near 0% | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shutdown, but meh | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shit going down either way | 05:08 |
| eccerr0r | Status: 0x30 Mode: STANDBY Full: 0 Wall: 0 Voltage: 3569 NAC: 1911 level: 98 % Rate: -305 System: -1255 Ch: 950 Compensated: | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: ^^^ | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you stopped bme? | 05:14 |
| eccerr0r | fsck... wtf is going on with this... | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you first must `stop bme` before you start charge21.sh | 05:16 |
| eccerr0r | ah. | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you wait for longer than 30s after stopping bme, you might see steady amber since bq24150 watchdog resets the chip | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this is basically the non-CPU mode, since bme==CPU for the bq | 05:18 |
| MrOpposite | Geez | 05:18 |
| MrOpposite | Is there any way to get dpkg-buildpackage on mameo? | 05:19 |
| MrOpposite | for some reason dpkg is stupid and doesn't realize that I have cross-compatible python scripts | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, building on N900 isn't recommended | 05:19 |
| MrOpposite | Well | 05:20 |
| MrOpposite | I'm not building per-se | 05:20 |
| MrOpposite | I'm more or less packaging | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check tools repo then | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might be there | 05:20 |
| eccerr0r | That first line that says "Charger" means that the USB is connected? And why would it still say Wall:0 ? | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wall:0 means "no D+- short detected" | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what first line you mean | 05:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also iirc "Rate: -305 System: -1255 Ch: 950" means that those guestimate calculations think the charger chip delivers 950mA yet battery gets discharged by 305mA, resulting in system obviously eating 1255mA | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the 950 from charger chip are bogus, probably | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are deduced from status and a few other parameters | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NAC and level are obviously from a severely decalibrated bq27200 | 05:28 |
| teotwaki | Well this sucks. | 05:32 |
| teotwaki | I recently broke up with my ex. | 05:32 |
| teotwaki | There's a colleague I've been hanging out with. | 05:32 |
| teotwaki | I've been having fun reading her body language, and pushing her when I detect half truths. | 05:32 |
| teotwaki | Over the last week, every evening, we'd hang out after work, either at the office, or at her place. | 05:33 |
| teotwaki | Well, last month. | 05:33 |
| teotwaki | Turns out, while I've been pushing to get a stupid friends with benefits kinda thing, and she refused. | 05:34 |
| teotwaki | She wasn't refusing because she's married (getting divorced), or because we're colleagues. | 05:34 |
| teotwaki | But because she has way more feelings than she'd (or I) care for. | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | :-\ | 05:35 |
| teotwaki | That's the first time I'm the one stopping a friendship because of the feelings. | 05:35 |
| teotwaki | Fuck me, I just friend-zoned a chick! | 05:35 |
| MrOpposite | okay | 05:37 |
| MrOpposite | 4:30 AM | 05:37 |
| MrOpposite | Time to sleep | 05:37 |
| teotwaki | Yeah, I'm going to leave the office as well | 05:37 |
| teotwaki | 4:30 is pretty ridiculous on a Sunday morning. | 05:37 |
| MrOpposite | yeah :P | 05:38 |
| MrOpposite | anyway gnite! | 05:38 |
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| eccerr0r | wonder if my bq24150(is it?) or bq27200 or whatever chip it is in the n900 is fried... seems like it is really confused? | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | it may well be the us. co. sector | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try bme with "bq27200.sh 5" | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | charge21.sh can be confusing | 05:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: though i'd not be surprised if you'd actually had fried the bq24150 with your "if I increase voltahe above 5V, it draws more current" experiments | 05:43 |
| eccerr0r | well if I hadn't been having problem with it to begin with... | 05:43 |
| eccerr0r | the bq24150 datasheet says vbus can take up to 10.5V indefinitely (but wont charge) and higher but not forever... | 05:44 |
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| eccerr0r | hmm maybe I have to just live with sloooow charging... :( | 06:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: yes, bq24150 is quite ruggedized | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not so the twl4030 that detects vbus | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the 1707 PHY | 06:10 |
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| eccerr0r | oh nice...found the service manuals... | 07:05 |
| eccerr0r | not that it would necessarily help but it has some interesting info on them... | 07:05 |
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| nomeata | Hi. tablets-dev.nokia.com/ seems to be down – is that temporary or permanently? Are there alternative sources for the OS images? | 11:19 |
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| kerio | ~skeiron | 11:22 |
| infobot | it has been said that skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 11:22 |
| nomeata | thx | 11:23 |
| nomeata | What do you think – is there still a market for a N770 on ebay? Mine has been lying around in a drawer for a few years too many by now. | 11:24 |
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| kerio | eeh, idk | 11:32 |
| kerio | i wouldn't buy it | 11:32 |
| kerio | but maybe some collector... | 11:32 |
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| nomeata | I guess its worth a try. Too nice a device to just throw it away | 11:38 |
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| sobukus | nomeata: well, I recently bougt a maemo tablet off ebay; wanted to hack it into a music box (using my custom programs) | 12:00 |
| sobukus | nomeata: but it's a n800, not n770 | 12:00 |
| sobukus | and I only thought it viable because of the two sdhc slots | 12:01 |
| sobukus | paid 20 € (though, it was labelled as defect because of a broken linux install) | 12:01 |
| sobukus | I don't think you'll get much more than that for a n770 ... unless lucky, of course. | 12:02 |
| nomeata | still, its worth a try | 12:02 |
| sobukus | In any case better than throwing away! | 12:02 |
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| sobukus | I might still try to sell my E90 to some affectinate person. I still miss the proper keyboard of the device, but the S60 OS sucks too much:-( | 12:03 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | there's an n770 on ebay us has 2 bids and 5 days to go. this would give you a indication of how much it's worth. | 12:07 |
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| nomeata | sixwheeledbeast: that on what country? | 12:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ebay US | 12:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | nomeata: also one BNIB for 149 bucks no bids | 12:12 |
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| kerio | sixwheeledbeast: holy crap, 150$ is how much you'd pay for a mint condition n900 | 12:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | kerio: hence no bids... | 12:35 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | http://bit.ly/XhHAac | 12:37 |
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| nomeata | If you are in germany and want a n770: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111014036610 | 12:59 |
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| freemangordon | guys, need some QML help: How to change items DEFAULT background color, or "theme" color. | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | Not sure if it is QML or general Qt though | 13:23 |
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| freemangordon | It seems no matter what I set (stuff like Qt::WA_NoSystemBackground and Qt::WA_OpaquePaintEvent), the underlying GTK widget still paints its background | 13:25 |
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| freemangordon | or at least when I change "DefaultBackgroundColor" in gtkrc, it affects what is painted as background. NFC if it is GTK or QDeclarativeSomething that paints it though :) | 13:27 |
| freemangordon | setting autoFillBackground to false also does not work | 13:29 |
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| trx | freemangordon http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-theme.html | 14:00 |
| trx | freemangordon what do you mean by "the underlying GTK widget"? | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | trx: fremantle here ;) | 14:01 |
| trx | oh, right :) | 14:01 |
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| qwazix | freemangordon, you're trying to get a transparent QDeclarativeItem? | 14:30 |
| qwazix | I tried a lot to do that but didn't find a way... | 14:30 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: no, I am trying to change that color from black to something else, see #embedlite :) | 14:30 |
| freemangordon | the only way I found so far is to change "DefaultBackgroundColor" in gtkrc :D | 14:31 |
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| freemangordon | qwazix: have in mind we talk about 5-8 fps for embedlite ;) | 14:32 |
| trx | freemangordon how do you show the gtk widget in QML? | 14:33 |
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| trx | you draw its pixmap onto QDeclarativeItem? | 14:33 |
| freemangordon | trx: I show nothing GTK, it is Qt that shows something | 14:33 |
| freemangordon | with black background, which is overpainted by the stuff | 14:34 |
| freemangordon | trx: BTW toplevel widget is QGLWidget | 14:34 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, ok, just let me read the backscroll | 14:35 |
| freemangordon | ok | 14:35 |
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| freemangordon | trx: the sourcecode https://github.com/tmeshkova/qmlmozbrowser | 14:36 |
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| freemangordon | trx: again, it is QWS_MAEMO_5 | 14:37 |
| freemangordon | :) | 14:37 |
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| trx | i'll have a lool | 14:37 |
| trx | look | 14:37 |
| kerio | i'll have a lol | 14:37 |
| kerio | lol! | 14:37 |
| trx | ;)() | 14:37 |
| trx | damn | 14:37 |
| trx | not my day | 14:37 |
| kerio | that's a ;) with a fat belly | 14:38 |
| trx | i guess so :) | 14:38 |
| freemangordon | :D | 14:38 |
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| MohammadAG | freemangordon, set a Qt stylesheet? | 14:41 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: did that, but with no use :) | 14:41 |
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| trx | stylesheets work only with QWidget afaik | 14:41 |
| MohammadAG | can you post a screenshot? | 14:41 |
| MohammadAG | QGLWidget is a QWidget | 14:41 |
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| freemangordon | black remains black, no matter app->setStylesheet("background-color:red;"); | 14:42 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: screenshot of a black screen? | 14:42 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: just turn your n900's screen off :P | 14:42 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm, you're right, it IS black | 14:43 |
| MohammadAG | but I don't get what's black | 14:43 |
| MohammadAG | if it's in QML, gtk shouldn't have anything to do with the app | 14:44 |
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| MohammadAG | for future reference, moz (pronounced like more with a z) means banana in arabic | 14:44 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: I hve NFC who paints that in QLM, but it uses GTK background color | 14:45 |
| freemangordon | *QML | 14:45 |
| MohammadAG | so it's a QML Item? | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | yes | 14:46 |
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| freemangordon | but it's subclassed and all painting disabled | 14:46 |
| goldkatze | Hi | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: it is either qdeclarativeview or qglwidget | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | that paints that background | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: doiing app->setPallete(...) does not help either | 14:49 |
| freemangordon | *doing | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if subclassing paintEvent would help | 14:50 |
| MohammadAG | s/subclassing/overriding | 14:50 |
| trx | and then drawing manualy? | 14:51 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: which class' paint event? | 14:52 |
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| freemangordon | qglwidget? | 14:52 |
| MohammadAG | trx, no, just changing the brush colour I guess | 14:52 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure, that's why I said I wonder :P | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: that works, but it paints over the initial black | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | :D | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | which is not what I want | 14:53 |
| MohammadAG | but afaik QDeclarativeView inherits QGLWidget no? | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | no | 14:53 |
| trx | no, QGrphicsView | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | you set view widget | 14:53 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon, then it's not QGLWidget painting the black :P | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: yes, most probably not. though qdeclarative view installs event filter on qglwidget, and maybe sets some glClearColor | 14:54 |
| raandoom | freemangordon maybe i dont understand you right, but when i had my painting always black, i change colorrole of the brush and all works fine | 14:57 |
| qwazix | this doesn't seem right: app->setStylesheet("background-color:red;"); Maybe widget->setStylesheet(" . . . ") where widget is your QDeclarativeItem | 14:57 |
| freemangordon | sure, that works, but it paints the color OVER the black background, so initial black painting is still there | 14:58 |
| freemangordon | raandoom: ^^^ | 14:58 |
| freemangordon | so it results in scrolling fps drop | 14:58 |
| freemangordon | from 40-45 to 35 | 14:59 |
| freemangordon | as it is painted on every frame | 14:59 |
| freemangordon | raandoom: maybe I don;t use the correct brush though | 14:59 |
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| freemangordon | qwazix: which is the top-level widget in an QML app? | 15:04 |
| freemangordon | *a | 15:04 |
| qwazix | QDeclarativeView | 15:04 |
| trx | freemangordon try painting on QDeclarativeView and not GLWidget | 15:05 |
| trx | also, have you experimented with QGraphicsItem::ItemCoordinateCache? | 15:05 |
| qwazix | It doesn't *have* to be. You can perfectly use a QDeclarativeView just like any other widget. | 15:05 |
| trx | it lowered fps in my app | 15:06 |
| qwazix | (I.e. mixed qtwidget and qml) | 15:06 |
| freemangordon | trx: the painting is not in qglwidget, qglwidget is just the viewport | 15:06 |
| freemangordon | (or whatever it is called) | 15:06 |
| Macer | watching the chealsea game and i don't even watch soccer | 15:12 |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 15:12 | |
| Macer | chelsea just scored | 15:14 |
| raandoom | soccer? why not football? :) | 15:17 |
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| * sobukus wonders why he seemed to access ALSA output some time ago and not anymore, only via esd | 15:23 | |
| sobukus | Is there a trick on OS2008 to access audio output via ALSA? I read that the theremin application does that for low latency. | 15:24 |
| sobukus | Needless to day, the theremin does not work for me ... which might mean I broke something with my setup? | 15:25 |
| muelli | Can I increase the font size for the address book? I can barely read things i.e. when I'm walking. So only increasing the size of the phone numbers would be in my interest. | 15:26 |
| freemangordon | qwazix, MohammadAG: | 15:26 |
| freemangordon | QPalette pal; | 15:26 |
| freemangordon | pal.setColor(view->backgroundRole(),QColor(Qt::blue)); | 15:26 |
| freemangordon | view->setPalette(pal); | 15:26 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 15:26 |
| qwazix | yay! | 15:27 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: so, we are ready to go | 15:27 |
| freemangordon | qube renders with 40 fps, background is blue :) | 15:28 |
| qwazix | I'm setting right now fremantle sbox from scratch, I should be good to go in a while too | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | *cube | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | nice, i'm going to try to change that in runtime, depending on the page background color | 15:29 |
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| qwazix | And what if the page has an image as background? | 15:29 |
| freemangordon | no idea :D | 15:30 |
| freemangordon | oh, wait, gecko wil render it | 15:30 |
| freemangordon | this is the color that will be shown while the contents is still not rendered | 15:30 |
| Macer | raandoom: real football is over :-P | 15:31 |
| Macer | we call EU football soccer in the US | 15:31 |
| Macer | just like we use imperial measurements | 15:31 |
| Macer | heh | 15:31 |
| Macer | chelsea is up 2-0 now | 15:31 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, so why not just paint it gray? | 15:31 |
| freemangordon | why not :D | 15:32 |
| qwazix | It doesn't have to imitate the page background | 15:32 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: i'll do it smart, count on me | 15:32 |
| raandoom | Macer i thought that 'soccer' is not popular in US :) | 15:33 |
| qwazix | I've no doubt :) | 15:34 |
| * sobukus suspects it's libasound2-1.0.14 instead of stock 1.0.10 | 15:35 | |
| Macer | it isn't | 15:36 |
| Macer | there's nothing else on ;) | 15:36 |
| Macer | all of our major sports are in an off time... football is over, basketball is having its all star game today, and baseball is in the off season | 15:37 |
| Macer | hockey doesn't count as a major sport ;) | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon, I used that once, forgot the reason why, I guess that's why I didn't mention it :P | 15:43 |
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| topro_ | should not QAudioDeviceInfo::availableDevices(QAudio::AudioInput).size() always return >0 ? | 15:45 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Macer: you can't call that football "real" football :P | 15:50 |
| Macer | heh | 15:51 |
| Macer | well.. we are arrogant americans | 15:52 |
| Macer | we will call our football whatever we want lol | 15:52 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | yer and everyone else calls it american football :) | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | imperial football | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though that's not even an empire thing | 16:04 |
| jon_y | standard football vs imperial football :) | 16:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | metric football surely | 16:04 |
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| jon_y | :) | 16:04 |
| kerio | metric = standard | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SI football? | 16:05 |
| jon_y | hmm, how does score conversion work? | 16:05 |
| jon_y | 13.5 to 1 metric goal | 16:06 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks a little since kmail1.9.10 is *totally* fubar | 16:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas kmail2 is also fubar | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly who wants MySQL instead of maildir | 16:07 |
| jon_y | mysql on a phone? | 16:08 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: stop using kde, for crying out loud | 16:09 |
| kerio | you keep complaining about everything, it's clearly not a DE you like | 16:09 |
| jacekowski | KDE is great | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I like the integration into addressbook and whatnot else | 16:09 |
| kerio | jacekowski: is not | 16:09 |
| jacekowski | yes it is | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and until "recently" kmail did a very nice job for me | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kde4 however fubared everything | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl the kde3-kmail available | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on my 3 year old "old" system I had a way more recent kmail1.9.xx version than available now on this "new" system | 16:13 |
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| Macer | lol | 16:22 |
| Macer | metric football lol | 16:22 |
| Macer | kde uses mysql for mail? | 16:23 |
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| WizardNumberNext | kernel timers again: I presume that frequency would have some infulence on granulity of timers. Does it? | 17:24 |
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| topro_ | WizardNumberNext: you are talking about kernel hz? i.e. 200? | 17:50 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: yes | 17:51 |
| WizardNumberNext | no, about biggest kernel timers resolution available | 17:51 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: unless you use hardware timers | 17:51 |
| WizardNumberNext | it was said 50ms | 17:51 |
| topro_ | with default kernel on n900 i experienced 50ms timer res. so I think the kernel hast 200HZ set | 17:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | so assume it would be 50ms for 500MHz. Would it be it say around 30-35ms for 850MHz? | 17:52 |
| topro_ | s/hast/has/ | 17:52 |
| infobot | topro_ meant: with default kernel on n900 i experienced 50ms timer res. so I think the kernel has 200HZ set | 17:52 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: not at all | 17:52 |
| freemangordon | topro: iirc it is CONFIG_HZ=100 or 128 | 17:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_HZ=200 would produce 5ms, not 50ms | 17:53 |
| topro_ | hmm, but that would not match my observation that i.e. gettimeofday returns values as multiple of 50ms | 17:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | topro - that is what I am talking about | 17:53 |
| teotwaki | because gettimeofday would have to rely on relatively standard features provided by the system. | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | afaik this is not highres timer | 17:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | exactly that one, but do you think frequency would have any impact on it? | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | teotwaki: :nod: | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: no way | 17:54 |
| teotwaki | Doesn't mean that gtod is the way to get access to the high resolution timers. | 17:54 |
| topro_ | is there a high res timer with n900 default maemo kernel? | 17:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon: explain. I do not understand why it won't have impact. What is reason? | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: because core clock is not used for that purpose afaik | 17:56 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: I'm assuming the code is something along the lines of ticks = CPU_FREQ / 50000; which means you get x ticks before the counter is incremented. Also, this may be handled through the cpu governor. | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | topro: check what gstreamer uses | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | or PA, or something | 17:57 |
| topro_ | ok, i'll see | 17:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, then either 32kHz or clock for almost every external to SoC HW would be the refence? | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | I guess so | 17:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | I think that would oly thing which would make sense | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | iirc there are a couple of external clock sources | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | qhich one is used IDK | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | *which | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | asking on #opensuse-kde for a user who built kdepim with kmail1.>9.x for suse12.1 -- duuuude are those suse kde devels a bunch of blockheads | 17:59 |
| topro_ | can I read kernel CONFIG_HZ used to compile kernel from running kernel, i.e. /proc or /sys? | 17:59 |
| WizardNumberNext | topro, yes but I think you have to load some module | 18:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | don't remeber name | 18:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | configs I pressume | 18:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | sth like this | 18:01 |
| WizardNumberNext | it would appear as /proc/configs.gz afair | 18:01 |
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| topro_ | it would be /proc/config.gz, but I can't find any module to load which would provide it | 18:06 |
| WizardNumberNext | configs | 18:06 |
| WizardNumberNext | I just did it | 18:06 |
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| topro_ | 2.6.28-omap1 running here, no mudule named configs.ko | 18:07 |
| topro_ | module | 18:07 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_OMAP_32K_TIMER_HZ=128 | 18:07 |
| WizardNumberNext | there was some other way to get config in case of lack of config in boot and proc, but I cannot seem to remember | 18:08 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y | 18:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_NO_HZ=y | 18:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y | 18:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_GENERIC_CLOCKEVENTS_BUILD=y | 18:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_HZ=128 | 18:11 |
| WizardNumberNext | this is from kp51 | 18:11 |
| topro_ | so could it be that high-res timer has 50ms? | 18:11 |
| WizardNumberNext | who knows, that could be axplaination | 18:11 |
| topro_ | no, that makes no sens | 18:11 |
| WizardNumberNext | but then this not really hrt | 18:12 |
| topro_ | as highres would be worse than kernel-hz | 18:12 |
| WizardNumberNext | because because 128Hz is 7.8ms per cycle | 18:12 |
| WizardNumberNext | you should be able to see resolution of timers in proc somewhere | 18:14 |
| WizardNumberNext | hrt is reported to have resolution of 91553ns, if I get decription right | 18:16 |
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| ShadowJK | how are you testing timer res? | 18:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am not, kernel reports that in /proc/timer_list | 18:17 |
| qwazix | what a pain is to install maemo sdk without the installers... | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: just use vmware image | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .resolution: 1 nsecs | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .get_time: ktime_get_real | 18:21 |
| WizardNumberNext | for cpu | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .resolution: 1 nsecs | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .get_time: ktime_get | 18:21 |
| WizardNumberNext | see end of file | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Clock Event Device: gp timer | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | max_delta_ns: 131072454787401 | 18:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | maybe gtod takes enough context to make it always 50ms? | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | min_delta_ns: 91553 | 18:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | welcome to the club - same here | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is GeneralPurpose | 18:23 |
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| WizardNumberNext | but it is used as interrupt for hrt | 18:23 |
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| WizardNumberNext | I have no idea if 3430 have hrt by itself | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, why not | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway: event_handler: hrtimer_interrupt | 18:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | linux are providing drivers for devices, which are created by SW | 18:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | but on the other side there is no other timer which have anything to do with hrt | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder why this timer topic comes up reliably every other day | 18:25 |
| WizardNumberNext | where on both amd64 mb I have 3 hrt (each) and I can see them in /proc/timer_list | 18:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am just curious | 18:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | I like to know abilities and limitation of HW I use | 18:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | sorry 3 hpet on each MB and 1 hrt on each cpu core | 18:30 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because it's unresolved | 19:09 |
| kerio | and i, for one, welcome our new timer overlords | 19:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: what's unresolved? | 19:30 |
| kerio | the timing thing, or something | 19:30 |
| kerio | or was unresolved | 19:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rather "or something" | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it wasn't unresolved, it was a missing link to the right howto, if anything | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | missing as in "I never bothered so I wasn't able to help" | 19:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ kpim4.4 with kmail1.13, NO akonadi crap! FINALLY | 20:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | :-) | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hail and kudos to pheinlein | 20:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://build.opensuse.org/package/binary?arch=x86_64&filename=kdepim4-4.4.10-8.149.x86_64.rpm&package=kdepim4&project=home%3Apheinlein&repository=openSUSE_Factory | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still has requirements of akonadi, but it seems the kmail part is not particularly feckered up by it | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably just for allowing this kerry-beagle stuff | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [personal notice] Good luck Ivan! Thanks for all the help in council and board! please visit as often as you can, we'll miss you badly | 20:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | agreed, just been reading that. | 20:29 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what happened? | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ivan steps down from council and board | 20:30 |
| kerio | "There's still a lot to do but I have absolute confidence in current Council and Board." | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is... a disaster - for us | 20:30 |
| NIN101 | thx Ivan. | 20:30 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: indeed | 20:31 |
| qwazix | Another big thank you from me | 20:31 |
| Estel_ | what an unpredictable event, I've never seen that coming. BTW, the problem about administration "hiring" was solved? | 20:32 |
| kerio | Estel_: sidestepped, for now | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there is no administrators in maemo | 20:33 |
| teotwaki | link? | 20:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1323480&postcount=1 | 20:33 |
| teotwaki | ta | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: I tried to find 2013 in pipermal, but it seems borked | 20:33 |
| jacekowski | how's the OSUOSL thing working out? | 20:33 |
| kerio | isn't falk a sysadmin? | 20:34 |
| kerio | jacekowski: in all likelyhood, we'll use the free hosting from iphh | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: falk is sysop | 20:34 |
| kerio | what's the difference? :o | 20:34 |
| kerio | jacekowski: warfare lives ~10 minutes away from the iphh datacenter | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991, woody, chem|st all are maintainers | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | administrator is ambiguous | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/95d3ac5a8a | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I the heck should CC maemo-community ML on all those mails | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely no reason to do that stuff begind the scenes | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | behind, even | 20:41 |
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| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: well finally one of you has grown a brain. | 20:44 |
| teotwaki | The amount of secrecy Maemo has been plagued with is ridiculous. | 20:44 |
| teotwaki | I've always said I never understood the private lists and such. | 20:44 |
| kerio | teotwaki: lawyers | 20:45 |
| teotwaki | I can understand there's a private forum for the moderators on tmo | 20:45 |
| teotwaki | because it is useful to have a place to discuss "I did this to this user, because he said this." | 20:45 |
| teotwaki | Because people aren't online at the same time, and actions aren't exactly transparent. | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | same applies to sysops | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have 2 irc channels for that | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are even *some* things like early notice from ivan to council and board about him stepping down that for good (or at least understandable) reasons are not public | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but stuff like http://privatepaste.com/95d3ac5a8a probably better gets discussed on a public forum tazher that a closed ML | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather* | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | i think there is too much "paperwork" now | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why the tech staff does virtually all on IRC | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't need persistent documentation for everyday business, we need short RTT | 20:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | since our "protocol" is highly interactive | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sending a mail is almost an insult ;-) | 20:59 |
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| Estel_ | small question, as I'm sure someone did it already - I've switched to another GSM plan with limited minutes, as I use VoIP, most of the times. I would like to use my minutes from GSM plan, then, after that, call using voip only. I'm thinking about some semi-automatic solution, that would warn me when certain ammount of outgoing minutes have been spent (*not* including voip talking), or even without warning, just allowing me to check it wi | 20:59 |
| Estel_ | thout logging into my mobile provider EULA | 20:59 |
| Estel_ | anyone know such solution for N900? | 20:59 |
| Estel_ | of course for VoIP I use N900's native solution | 20:59 |
| Estel_ | thanks in advance | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mompls | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1050432#post1050432 | 21:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | will NOT cut an established call just because your free minutes expired during it | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | calculation always done at end of call - you're free tp tweak the algorithm to switch when less than N free minures left over | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/tp/to/ | 21:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: calculation always done at end of call - you're free to tweak the algorithm to switch when less than N free minures left over | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ... | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | am i online? | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack | 21:05 |
| infobot | aw, gee, DocScrutinizer05 | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, i attribute it to manners then | 21:06 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: passive aggressive much? | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, you consider expecting a thank-you agressive? | 21:08 |
| kerio | nah, but IRC is an async medium | 21:09 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, thanks you. Ever considered, that people use bouncers and may be AFK at the moment? :) | 22:06 |
| Estel_ | You know, real life, kids, wife(s), the things that people tend to have in real life, which happens to people that are *not*incolved in maemo's politics | 22:08 |
| Estel_ | jokes aside, reading it | 22:09 |
| Estel_ | ~ping | 22:09 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:09 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o teotwaki | 22:09 | |
| *** Estel_ was kicked by teotwaki (fuck off you douche. Really nice touch to insult everyone in the channel, and then call "humour" to try and defend you case. Fuckface.) | 22:10 | |
| *** teotwaki sets mode: -o teotwaki | 22:10 | |
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| teotwaki | s/u c/ur c/ | 22:11 |
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| Estel_ | You have been kicked from #maemo by teotwaki (fuck off you douche. Really nice touch to insult everyone in the channel, and then call "humour" to try and defend you case. Fuckface.) | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | "passive agression" :P | 22:17 |
| teotwaki | Well | 22:18 |
| teotwaki | I have to admit | 22:18 |
| teotwaki | No passivity there :) | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | why do you have to do this | 22:18 |
| Estel_ | cmon, got a sense of humour. I'm sure not even DocScrutinizer05 was offended by that one, he jokes about no real life himself ;) keep your cool and calm down. | 22:19 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not sure what's supposed to be funny. I don't see anything funny or offensive or insulting until suddenly people are accusing people of being insulting and then people getting kicked | 22:20 |
| ShadowJK | could someone please explain what's going on? | 22:21 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: backscroll | 22:21 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; still not understanding or seeing | 22:21 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, if we're talking serious for a moment, I'm so used to it in Maemo's reality for ~two years, that I totally stopped carrying, and got amused by teotwaki's rage outburst. Same for tmo and chemist - I think we must acknowledge that this is how maemo"community" look those days | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | I do vaguely recall random rage outbursts before and then also had no clue what it was about. | 22:23 |
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| ShadowJK | And at those times when I asked for explanation, people got angrier and angrier, and refused to explain why :) | 22:24 |
| teotwaki | ShadowJK: Estel_ is a troll, who thinks he has a special bond with DocScrutinizer05 because they're both German. Somehow, in his deluded mind, the ops of #maemo have turned on him, while he was on the council. He was trying to get control over opdom in #maemo, and we kinda told him to fuck off. | 22:24 |
| kerio | teotwaki: Estel_ is not german | 22:25 |
| teotwaki | oh, my bad then. | 22:25 |
| Estel_ | tried to change that for a while, but decided, that I have better things to do, so either turn it into joke and keep doing own things without giving a f**k about this, or go away and screw thisd place, I decided to do 1st | 22:25 |
| ShadowJK | teotwaki; does it matter at all whether he thinks the ops have turned on him or not | 22:25 |
| teotwaki | Ever since, he's been calling us "operators gone rogue", because we wouldn't submit to his tantrums. #maemo has never been *under* the so called control of maemo.org. He abused his IRC cloak by keeping it to council long after his time on the council expired. | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, if you're really interested, teotwaki felt "offended" by my two lines before kick occured, and decided, that he is entitled to abuse chanop again ;) | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | teotwaki, pack of bullshit | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | I never used irc cloak myself | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | someone else appointed it and took it away | 22:26 |
| teotwaki | Right. | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | teotwaki; i don't know who is op or not, who is council or not, and who is cabal or not, who is nokia or not, ms or not, and should it matter at all? | 22:27 |
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| Estel_ | for me, you're just childlish funny guy which just "happen" to have chanop, and tend to abuse it from time to time - nothing personal. You're just pathetic in your outrage burst, and it seem that even most calm and neutral people like ShadowJK are getting upset about it | 22:28 |
| ShadowJK | Two lines before? ping/pong? or your connectivity issues to your bouncer? or your wife/kids distracting you? huh. | 22:28 |
| Estel_ | not my buisness - just think about how pathetic you've become, pal. | 22:28 |
| Estel_ | wife/kids distracting, probably | 22:28 |
| teotwaki | ShadowJK: nope, I just know that doc's been having a rough time, and for some reason, Estel_ does get to him on occasion. I think it's my role to remove trolls, people who try to get to people, on purpose. | 22:28 |
| Estel_ | well, everything is good reason to kick somebody, ifyou don't like him personally | 22:28 |
| teotwaki | actually, you're the only person I've kicked in the past year, so yeah, probably :) | 22:29 |
| ShadowJK | Well I'd like to submit to the secret chanops, policy change to in the future not kick people that get distracted by family members :) | 22:29 |
| Estel_ | :) | 22:29 |
| teotwaki | I didn't ban him, I didn't disrupt an active conversation. I just reminded Estel_ of where the limits are. Could I have done it differently? Possibly. | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | Although, if toddlers crawl over someone's keyboard, I guess kicking would be acceptable | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | same for cats and dogs too | 22:30 |
| Estel_ | I get distracted by real life again, so feel free to kick *waves* | 22:30 |
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| xes | sorry.... maybe i have missed something, but please explain me one thing. Which is the purpose that make people stay logged here? | 22:32 |
| NIN101 | Some keep maemo alive and want to support users or ask for help. Others troll. | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | the purpose to make people stay logged? You mean channel logging? | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | or are you asking what's the purpose to be in this channel? | 22:34 |
| xes | ShadowJK: logged on inside #maemo channel | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | It's kinda strange anyway, estel has never appeared like a troll to me | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: well, then you missed some really funny days during last year | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I think nothing really happened, and nobody got anything to discuss. A kick is nothing more than somebody clapping hands in the forest, if you have autojoin odds are you don't even notice it. Move on everybody, nothing to see here | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | bursts of random ragekicks like these make me feel sick and makes me want to close xchat every time they happen | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: I am aware IRC is no realtime medium, but usually it's good practice when you ask something you wait at least 60s for an answer, since maybe others hurry to help you and it's disappointing when you do that for the bin | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's well known TLAs for that, like | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, according to my own rationale of some time ago, seconded by teotwaki, here's a copy to let you know about last news with server migration: http://privatepaste.com/fd824b1041 | 22:48 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sure, I always *try* to stay for a while when asking about something - still, sometimes, things in RL demand immediate attention. Anyway, it's just thing of "people mean well", I suppose. While I agree nothing happened, I'm also a little saddended, that kicks etc become "clapping in the arm", especially, that as teotwaki said, he haven't used it on anyone else for years. Looks like personal to me (or personal problems a | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | t his side ;) ), which I wouldn't like to see on #maemo moderators. Well, it seems that "we" are no longer such respectful community, and here I agree totally with ShadowJK. Well, as good old stones used to sing, "you can't always get what you want" | 23:04 |
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| Estel_ | ShadowJK, btw, acussing others of being "trolls" become kind of "trendy" in maemo community. You don't agree with someone, or don't like him, he is "troll" | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | gurus of one camp are trolls of another, and you have 2-3 such camps in maemo nowadays. Sad times. | 23:06 |
| jacekowski | no longer respectful? | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | back on track- I checked scripts, and they're great | 23:06 |
| jacekowski | i don't think it was ever respectful | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | I just wonder, if there is a chance to count mms's on N900, somehow | 23:06 |
| jacekowski | at least not in past 3-4 years i've been visiting this channel | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | I would gladly upgrade those scripts, as on many countries, 1 mms = 1 sms = 1 monute | 23:07 |
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| Estel_ | s/monute/minute/ | 23:07 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: I would gladly upgrade those scripts, as on many countries, 1 mms = 1 sms = 1 minute | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | and in 1 mms one can put more text than in tens of sms'es | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | sending mms require connecting to "special", custom access point | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | (GSM one) | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | counting such connections could be a way to count mms'es | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | any ideas? | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | (but connection is also made when mms is received, which is free) | 23:10 |
| eccerr0r | I was wanting AT&T to charge 1 minute for an SMS... | 23:12 |
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| Estel_ | well, in poland, it is 3 sms for minute. Or 2, don't remember. | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need a hook into fmms for that | 23:16 |
| eccerr0r | that's VERY fair I wish that were the case everywhere | 23:16 |
| eccerr0r | stupid AT&T rips us off on SMS | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing else will probably count mms and distinguish between in and out | 23:16 |
| eccerr0r | or probably "smart" ... they're making a killing | 23:16 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't tried fmms yet :) | 23:17 | |
| eccerr0r | I haven't installed the mms extension onto my n900, what happens if someone sends me a mms? | 23:18 |
| ShadowJK | nothing | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | ffms wasn't updated for ages, I wonder how source code looks | 23:18 |
| eccerr0r | no notification or anything? | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | eccerr0r, if you have fmms installed, you just receive it | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | like sms or mail | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | N900 connects to mmc access point of your provider, witnout disrupting your current connections (so called "havoc" mode) | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | same when you send one | 23:19 |
| eccerr0r | I do not have fmms installed. I just notice when I use the email to sms gateway, if I send an email too long I get an mms instead | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | it's half-integrated to addressbook too, (you can send to contacts from addressbook, and they're named using data from addressbook too) | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | no clue about email to sms gateways | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | but without fmms you won't rexeive mms on N900 at all | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | BTW I would love if someone would fix splitting sms'es on N900 | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | when you use special chars, it automagically senda them using less optimized symbols table | 23:21 |
| Estel_ | so using single special, common character, you get 3x more sms'es send that it would be necessary | 23:21 |
| Estel_ | it just uses method of "if any special character, send sms using biggest codebase" | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | s/codebase/coding table/ | 23:22 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: it just uses method of "if any special character, send sms using biggest coding table" | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if your device isn't registered at your carrier as mms-enabled, then you usually receive a SMS with a URL where you can download the MMs content | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: that's how SMS are specified | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | joining split SMS is not a standard nevertheless afaik, so all you could do is find out what's the set of methods to split that you want to support | 23:25 |
| eccerr0r | ah... Ok, I was hoping it would work that way,getting an sms that had a link to the mms content... but I should just install fmms | 23:25 |
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| Estel_ | there is problem with so-called wap-push sms'es on N900 though | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | at least, in whatever provider's service sms with link to downl.oad something, it never worked for me | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | only plain sms'es with url as text | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | I'm not sure if every carrier use same method for non-mms-compliant devices? or some use wap-push, which is supported by 99% of devices? | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | btw I wonder how mms achieve N900 registering as mms-compliant... | 23:52 |
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