IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-05-21

Estel_teotwaki,  no, at least me. Livebox, yes, it's french00:00
Estel_but also used in Plland00:00
Estel_Poland*00:00
teotwaki_really? Interesting? By Orange/Wanadoo?00:00
MrPinguMy grandparents have a livebox too00:00
MrPinguI live in the Netherlands BTW00:00
teotwaki_Shame you'll never get your hands on a freebox :P00:01
Estel_Orange/Telekomunikacja Polska SA :P00:01
Estel_our "national" provider00:01
Estel_in fact, national/private hybride00:01
Estel_monopolyst, sort of00:01
DocScrutinizerteotwaki_: how's this relevant for my living room?00:01
Estel_teotwaki,  I don't want to. Livebox is worse router on earth00:02
Estel_ALL it's incarnations00:02
teotwaki_Estel_: and Freebox is one of the best ;)00:02
teotwaki_DocScrutinizer: makes your network card capable of running 100% real-time FFT or word analysis on voip streams.00:02
Estel_is it capable of running OpenWRT?00:02
DocScrutinizererrr wut, a FDDI concentrator?00:02
teotwaki_Estel_: nope00:02
Estel_so it isn't one of bect ;)00:03
Estel_it's like comparing iphone to N90000:03
teotwaki_Estel_: nope, it's not.00:03
Estel_anything with locked, closed firmware is of no interest to me00:03
teotwaki_DocScrutinizer: we bought a couple at work, initially to off-load part of the VoIP work from the CPU, directly onto the network card, but now, we're using it more to do "anger detection".00:03
teotwaki_Estel_: it's not closed, runs a full Linux stack, with published sources, and if you ask the right people, they give you the way to load your own.00:03
Estel_so it is capable of running openwrt00:04
teotwaki_yeah, but you most probably wouldn't want to.00:04
Estel_probably right00:04
Estel_unless You want to do like with arch linux on desktop (set up only needed tools fom scratch)00:05
Estel_but I'm sure You don't get it from Orange, yes?;)00:05
teotwaki_I run a very low-power version of our VoIP server on it, so I can program some ccxml/vxml logic into my phone line.00:05
teotwaki_only from the Free ISP.00:06
Estel_wonderful00:06
Estel_sounds great00:06
Estel_initially I though You're talking about some livebox successor, lol00:06
teotwaki_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebox#V6_generation.2C_Freebox_Revolution00:07
Estel_what is this Free ISP?00:07
Estel_ok got answer myself00:08
MrPinguEstel_ Aapo uploaded gcompris to devel, you might be interested? ( I read that somewhere)00:09
Estel_yea, I asked him to update it :)00:10
Estel_he was so kind to take it on himself00:10
Estel_actually I've helped him to track down some issues00:11
Estel_ohp, it reminds me that painting electrical schematics doesn't work due to some lacking file00:11
Estel_You can paint, but they wont work (simulate)00:11
MrPingu;)00:12
Estel_must report it to him00:12
Estel_for some reasons it works zillion times faster than same gcompris via easy debian00:12
Estel_at least initial startup00:12
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MrPingu_Yeah, crash #200:18
MrPingu_Well semi-crash, only wlan crashed, actually00:19
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MrPingu_Going to say good night!00:22
MrPingu_Ciao00:22
Estel_goodnight!00:22
DocScrutinizerMrPingu_: one thing for dreaming:00:22
DocScrutinizerI found _many_ wlan-modem-routers crash on WPA00:23
MrPingu_I won't downgrade to WEP for sure00:23
Estel_;)00:23
DocScrutinizermaybe if you switch off WLAN, your modem runs stable00:23
Estel_+ using router, like we mentioned, as ethernet client00:24
DocScrutinizeryup00:24
DocScrutinizerplus proper AP00:24
MrPingu_yeah, thanks :)00:24
DocScrutinizerg'nite00:24
MohammadAGI need javispedro00:24
Estel_for what?00:24
MohammadAGteotwaki, nope, no idea what it is even :p00:24
DocScrutinizerwell, dunno if javispedro needs you ;-P00:25
MohammadAGEstel_, making a video widget for MTF00:25
MrPingu_Btw already busted a "intruder" when router was at wep some years ago :o00:25
MohammadAGfor Sociality youtube playback00:25
MohammadAGthe UI is a 100% clone of the internal player00:25
MohammadAGbut I need help with painting the colorkey00:25
Estel_MrPingu_,  You could make him upside down net00:25
Estel_or kitty network00:25
DocScrutinizerI plan to set up a honeypot WEP00:25
Estel_:P00:26
Estel_and collect credit's card numers00:26
MohammadAGalso I need to know how to detect that a swipe started00:26
MrPingu_I doubled security, WPA2 only (turned of mixed, disables some device), Hidden SSID, mac filtering00:26
DocScrutinizerdang, you'd think a H-E-N update would cause more noise00:27
teotwaki_MrPingu_: don't bother with mac filtering00:27
Estel_it's funny how many noobs are filtered out just by using hidden network00:27
Estel_teotwaki,  cant agree00:27
teotwaki_MrPingu_: it's more hassle than it's worth (which is: zilch)00:27
DocScrutinizerhidden SSID is BS00:27
Estel_it is BS yet super effective against script kiddies00:27
teotwaki_that too.00:27
Estel_99% of them don't know that Your wifi exist00:28
MrPingu_BS? sorry :P00:28
teotwaki_sure they do00:28
DocScrutinizerEstel_: absolutely not00:28
Estel_and another 1% don't know how to reveal it00:28
teotwaki_they see the network, get signal strength, even AP MAC.00:28
teotwaki_All the info is there.00:28
DocScrutinizerau contraire - hidden SSID introduces new security threats00:28
Estel_it is, but not set in plain, untill You're actually transferring00:28
Estel_ah sry00:29
Estel_missread00:29
MrPingu_much traffic so AP ESSID is reveiled quite easil tho00:29
Estel_only during connect00:29
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DocScrutinizerexactly00:29
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Estel_cmon, most script kiddies don't know how to do it without essid00:29
Estel_at least they don't bother AP with fake auth to wpa200:30
teotwaki_rule of thumb: if you need to hide to be safe, you're not safe. If you don't trust your encryption to provide good enough security, you shouldn't be operating wifi.00:30
MrPingu_Yeah but who knows to get airodump running, probably know how to use deauth00:30
Estel_useless for them, but bothersome00:30
DocScrutinizerplus your device configured to scan and query hidden APs, will disclose all the SSIDs your device is known to, no matter where you are - AIUI00:30
Estel_teotwaki,  DocScrutinizer sure thing and I don't claim it's security at all00:31
DocScrutinizerit's anti-security00:31
Estel_it's just a thing that makes 99% of mosquitons not notice You00:31
DocScrutinizerplus a HUUUGE PITA for administration00:31
Estel_I'm using wpa2 with very strong passphrase00:31
teotwaki_but then again, if your security is good enough, they'll see you, and just skip to the next easy target.00:31
Estel_but I also use hidden network, so, miracolously, idiots stopped to deauth me00:31
MrPingu_Besides android can't handle all hidden SSIDs00:31
MrPingu_including my router xD00:31
Estel_teotwaki,  not true with noobs00:32
Estel_tell me how You secure AP against deauths00:32
teotwaki_Hidden SSID causes the actual useful tools to not work properly, you need to remember your ssid name, etc... it's more trouble than it's worth.00:32
Estel_or Your security isn't good enough and You shouldn't have wifi? ;)00:32
Estel_standards are broken, even using strong encryption00:32
teotwaki_i don't give a fuck about deauths...00:32
DocScrutinizerteotwaki_: exactly00:32
MrPingu_deauths are irritating...00:33
teotwaki_well, my neighbours aren't asshats, for one.00:33
Estel_teotwaki,  You will give, if You will download something huge and get deauth in middle, and server doesn't support resuming00:33
Estel_exactly00:33
Estel_but, in place where I live00:33
MrPingu_exactly estel_00:33
Estel_mnay kids try it00:33
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teotwaki_and if I notice deauths, I'd pull the plug on my wifi asap 'till the kiddies fly over.00:34
Estel_hidden network is useless in Yoiur user case teotwaki and DocScrutinizer00:34
teotwaki_who the fuck downloads something huge over wifi?00:34
DocScrutinizerMrPingu_: a bunch of fsckdup clients trying to roam to your AP as they are meant to associate to neighbour's also hidden SSID are more irritating00:34
Estel_but it doesn't mean it's useless for other cases00:34
merlin1991somebody ran a deauth attack at the university some time ago00:34
merlin1991was funny to watch00:34
Estel_teotwaki,  not everyone sits on 120fiber00:34
Estel_My network is so cheap @ bandidth00:34
Estel_that I can use wifi without penalties00:35
Estel_whatever it is, watching stream, downloading, no matter what00:35
Estel_deqauths are irritating00:35
teotwaki_my router downloads huge files -- no disconnection possible. If it's a movie, I consume it over CPL on the telly, if it's a 6GB app, I don't mind plugging in a cable and speeding up the download 100x.00:35
Estel_see above.00:35
teotwaki_streaming is so 2007 :P00:35
Estel_don't care.00:35
Estel_whatever I use, turning hidden network ON made me 0 deauths00:36
Estel_since.00:36
Estel_it doesn't mean I'm not using strong passphrase wpa2 with low time of group key reneval00:36
MrPingu_wpa2 32byte hex key ;)00:36
teotwaki_you just got lucky, if you want i'll check if I still have my aircrack script that deauths everything in range, be it hidden or not -- it used to work fine on the n900, although power hungry.00:37
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Estel_nice, but it's not popular amonsgt noobs00:37
MrPingu_whole monitor mode on n900 is power hungry00:37
Estel_I've said zillion of times - hidden network isn't security, it's anti-noob tool00:37
DocScrutinizerEstel_: see? that's what I'll get a honeypot WEP for. Aloow deauthing fucking script kiddies to "hack" it, then fsck then decently00:37
teotwaki_see, i just got a disconnect from my shitty network card00:37
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teotwaki_did you notice anything? I sure didn't.00:37
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  true ;)00:37
teotwaki_but wifi went down -- none of my downloads, or connections did.00:38
Estel_fine, but, I, for a turn, don't like such bloatboxes like freebox00:38
Estel_fine, but, I, for a turn, don't like such bloatboxes like freebox00:38
Estel_damn, sry00:38
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teotwaki_whatever floats your boat, I guess.00:38
Estel_it's decent router for sure, but00:38
Estel_if I want to plug hdd to it00:39
Estel_I don't need 250gb inside router00:39
MrPingu_Most of the time I use my gaming machine, connected with a wire00:39
Estel_and cmon, can't write dvb-t movies to external disk due to copyright reasons?00:39
Estel_my router is MY router00:39
teotwaki_Estel_: wha? That works.00:39
teotwaki_Estel_: there's two channels on which that doesn't work -- but stream it through VLC from the router, and dump it to the HD.00:40
MrPingu_but sometimes, it's just more comfortable when you can use a laptop everywhere00:40
Estel_well, so article on wiki is outdated, it was well known issue00:40
Estel_teotwaki,  true00:40
Estel_but You must workaround Your own router00:40
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teotwaki_they're just playing ball with content providers, doesn't mean they make it exactly difficult.00:40
Estel_ok, I preffer to have own router that doesn't play ball with anyone00:40
Estel_I just don't like provider's stuff00:41
teotwaki_sure, how much do you pay again every month, and what kind of connection do you have? :P00:41
MrPingu_agree ^^00:41
Estel_not that I'm saying it's bad for You00:41
Estel_I just mean that Your user habits doesn't need to be valid for others. I preffer minimalistiv approach00:41
MrPingu_I was about to go to bed, hmm I stayed ;o00:42
Estel_freebox got many great things softwqre wise, but for me - I repeat *just* for me, it's bloated like Ubuntu's unity00:42
MrPingu_going for real now, good night!00:42
Estel_MrPingu_,  interesting night conversations ;)00:42
Estel_bye bye!00:42
teotwaki_Don't mean to get in a pissing context, am just saying that even though I'm a FOSS dude, and I lobby everyone and their brother against patents, and copyright, and DRM, I have to admire when a company uses free software for "the greater good".00:42
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Estel_here I agree 100%00:43
Estel_freebox sounds like something 100% better than any router given by providers00:43
Estel_and people will, probably, always use provider's routers00:43
Estel_so I preffer FOSS ones00:43
Estel_it's just not for me00:43
teotwaki_And that's one thing Free has been doing, all the time. They fought all the stupid copyright laws in France (the one where the french RIAA can just submit a list of IPs, and demand the three strike law is applied against it -- they provide the data back in paper format, and charge the french riaa for the cost of printing it and shipping)00:43
Estel_I don't even need usb port in my router that much ;)00:43
teotwaki_When the government tried to kill off wikileaks' hosting in france, Free and OVH were the only two companies to go "Wait, that's against the constitution" and brought it to court.00:44
Estel_haha00:44
Estel_sounds great00:44
Estel_I mean paper00:44
Estel_printing00:44
Estel_sounds reasonable. Good to have such provider.00:45
teotwaki_yeah, that was brilliant -- sad the masses don't hear about it.00:45
Estel_I would surely subscribe to such provider, yet, our ones are "regular"00:45
Estel_Cable providers less bloated by restrictions, mass ones more00:45
ThreeMOVH MUST sue this. the most active consumers from OVH are in the warez business00:46
teotwaki_a decade ago, they kicked the phone industry in the bollocks, by providing free phone to the whole of france, on landlines, and 6 months later, free phone service to 3/4 of the world (landlines).00:46
Estel_would be interested in read about it, any links?00:47
Estel_btw, despite freebox greatness, it's possible to use other routers, and to use freebox on other's lines?00:47
Estel_i.e. not owned by Free?00:47
teotwaki_yeah sure00:48
teotwaki_a few months ago, they did it again, unlimited mobile phone contract, which includes unlimited minutes, texts, mms, 3g (bandwidth limited after 3GB as fair use), free SIM, no early termination fees, no subscription fees, nada... All that, for 15.99 a month (or 19.99 if you're not a prior customer)00:48
teotwaki_and the most beautiful part? 70% of their network is provided by... Orange.00:48
Estel_nice00:48
Estel_but where do they make money, acually?00:49
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Estel_and, what about speed limit on 3G after 3GB, any numbers?00:49
teotwaki_for regular users, they have a 40% margin.00:49
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: having conenction problems?00:49
Estel_my suckin provider limit it to 16 kbps ;)00:49
teotwaki_Estel_: no idea to be honest.00:49
teotwaki_Estel_: my girlfriend on the N900 never hit the limit.00:49
Estel_it's nice to have girlfriend using N900, I think ;) just side note00:50
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: why?00:50
teotwaki_she loves it00:50
teotwaki_absolutely unaware it would be able to connect to wifi and stuff, or that it runs Linux.00:50
merlin1991<-- jhb (~joerg@e176092221.adsl.alicedsl.de) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Quit: Leaving.)00:50
merlin1991assumed that's you aswell :D00:50
DocScrutinizernope00:50
teotwaki_that's his evil twin brother.00:50
merlin1991coming from a german network + joerg00:50
Estel_my ex wife wasn't this type, all I was able to convince her was 9300i communicator :P00:51
merlin1991:)00:51
teotwaki_on a side note -- it's the first time I'm lighting a cigarette on IRC in a long time (while talking on #maemo). Usually, I'd shout out "/me throws a lucky strike to lcuk" -- #knottedstomach.00:51
Estel_so You're saying that Your girlfriend loves N900 without knowing how to mess with linux?00:52
Estel_:)00:52
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Estel_It sound like great complement.00:52
merlin1991hm rate limit would be awesome00:52
teotwaki_well, she knows how to start up the terminal, launch python, and write an infinite loop saying "I love you".00:52
merlin1991I pay per gb00:52
Estel_;)00:52
merlin1991teotwaki_: I suppose that has to do ;)00:53
Estel_well, lately I've convinced my mother to sell her xperia x10 mini pro and buy N90000:53
Estel_She's year '5300:53
teotwaki_hey, I got her to use LyX/LaTeX for her uni work, and git to back it all up!00:53
Estel_no problems at all with usage00:53
Estel_teotwaki,  :) technologgy to the masses ;)00:54
teotwaki_next step is Mint 13 with MATE when the stable release comes out. She likes it on the desktop.00:54
merlin1991dafuq is MATE?00:54
Estel_who said N900 wasn't also great for non-geeks?00:54
merlin1991also I should look into LaTeX one day00:54
teotwaki_Gnome 2, made awesome, and supported.00:54
merlin1991hm Gnome 2, that sounds kewl00:54
Estel_I'm all for LXDE00:55
teotwaki_my sister converted her whole Word-based workflow to LyX + BiBTeX (jabref to create the db) for her thesis in roughly 3 weeks.00:55
Estel_I've said about minimalism already, eh? ;)00:55
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Estel_nice. Why not LibreOffice?00:55
teotwaki_http://mate-desktop.org/00:56
Estel_sounds like more natural choose for people accustomed to word00:56
teotwaki_Estel_: because libreoffice sucks as much as office.00:56
Estel_rationale?00:56
merlin1991hm could be a lil more yellowis in the default style for my liking :D00:56
teotwaki_LyX enables you to work on your content, rather than be distracted by layout.00:56
Estel_personally, I like LibreOffice, it works great even on N900 ;)00:56
Estel_oh, I'm getting nrvous hearing that phrase00:57
Estel_most of the times used to rationale hiding interface from me00:57
Estel_when next chromium got url bar hidden by default, they've said that it lets You focus more on content00:58
teotwaki_Estel_: lemme take a couple of screenshots to illustrate, aye?00:58
Estel_heck, If I want fullscreen on text processor or browser, I just hit F1100:58
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Estel_of course00:58
Estel_thanks for the effort00:58
teotwaki_http://imagebin.org/21316301:02
teotwaki_http://imagebin.org/21316401:03
teotwaki_Estel_: ^01:03
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teotwaki_Estel_: LyX hides the complexity of LaTeX, while still empowering you to use all what it offers, and its flexibility.01:05
Estel_thanks for the effort01:06
Estel_damn01:06
Estel_my mesage got deleted01:06
Estel_I meant "thanks for screen,, I also took reading ride"01:06
Estel_looks like really great and powerful tool01:07
Estel_it's for sure really quick when writing pre-defined documents, although doesn't performance hurt when doing non-standarized (layouted) thing?01:07
Estel_You know, custom thing out of regular context01:07
Estel_I mean that it reminds me about .css classes01:08
Estel_teotwaki_^01:08
teotwaki_well, my girlfriend and sister use a template designed by some german dude01:08
teotwaki_called classicthesis01:09
* Estel_ nods01:09
Estel_I can imagine it's really great and conveinent to use01:09
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teotwaki_for some teachers, who need specific layouts, I write up a quick layout for them01:09
Estel_and that You're able to write many complicated things blazingly fast01:09
Estel_I see01:09
teotwaki_usually very basic stuff, specific margins, spacing, font type and size, that kind of shit.01:10
teotwaki_I use it at work, with a bit more "expert" settings, such as logos, or even presentations01:10
Estel_well, I think it's not for everyone or at least not as sole text editor - I, for one, like to have fine tune about details on every basis :P01:10
Estel_I will surely download it and install01:10
Estel_and probably love it01:11
teotwaki_and code, with highlighting, etc.01:11
Estel_yet can't imagine it replacing LibreOffice with zillion of interface buttons01:11
Estel_that I can invoke @ any time :P01:11
Estel_for sure Lyx is a beast for things that You do often and need repeated styles01:12
Estel_do layout once and forget01:12
Estel_just write01:12
Estel_I'm just like this guy who sits in propeller plane and turn all this knobs manually, instead of buying ultralight personal jet :P01:12
Estel_that flights without me ;)01:12
Estel_which doesn't mean I don't like using jets for inter-dontinent travels01:13
teotwaki_well, it's got everything I need... Tables, table of contents, environments (format, headings), I use it to write our product documentation, release notes, meeting minutes, whatever with it01:13
Estel_I don't know how to explain it properly...01:14
teotwaki_and if something is bothering me, I just drop down to LaTeX and fix whatever the gui doesn't allow me.01:14
Estel_it's like with swype. it's great and speeds writing like hell... Yet I like more to tap on qwerty01:14
Estel_this way, I got like "mental connection" with text01:14
teotwaki_haha -- I asked for a zowie celeritas keyboard for my birthday at the end of the month.01:14
Estel_feeling that someone is formatting something for me, I got actual distracted...01:15
Estel_while interface buttons don't distract me01:15
Estel_just personal preff, I suppose01:15
trumeeteotwaki_: ++lyx01:15
trumeeteotwaki_: i have wanting to run Jabref on N90001:15
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teotwaki_shame it's java-based.01:15
Estel_btw, any way to port lyx to N900?01:15
teotwaki_I wouldn't recommend it, frankly.01:15
trumeeteotwaki_: yes, nothing comes close to jabref in terms of functionality01:16
Estel_trumee,  teotwaki, phoneME for java based?01:16
teotwaki_LaTeX is pretty hefty, think 300MB worth of dependencies.01:16
trumeeEstel_: yes, i have been wondering about that too.01:16
Estel_300 mb is nothing01:16
Estel_I got 3GB easy debian image01:16
Estel_and I use LibreOffice on ED daily01:16
trumeeEstel_: there is a jar for jabref, not sure if phoneME will work01:16
Estel_Lyx looks like perfect solution for on the go writing01:16
teotwaki_let's put it this way, on a good i5 2500K extreme CPU, generating a medium sized (90 pages) document takes 1.3 seconds, or something like that.01:16
Estel_forget formatting and hunting ui button with stylus01:17
Estel_hm01:17
teotwaki_On a 1 year old Pentium something (girlfriend computer), it takes roughly 40 seconds.01:17
Estel_trumee, we need to check ;)01:17
teotwaki_on a 600Mhz ARM CPU? I don't dare ask.01:17
Estel_teotwaki,  You mean generating *after* writing?01:17
teotwaki_yeah01:17
Estel_when You finished and click "generate" ?01:18
Estel_so it's no problem01:18
teotwaki_true01:18
Estel_it can even do it 5 min01:18
Estel_I mean easy of writing itself01:18
teotwaki_it's like "compile time", not an issue for most devs.01:18
Estel_it's important01:18
Estel_yea01:18
trumeeThe UI will need to modified for lyx01:18
Estel_I use LibreOffice on N900 mainly with bluetooth mouse usb keyboard and tv-out01:18
Estel_but for writing on the go, lyx would be great01:19
Estel_trumee, I'll try lys via easy debian01:19
trumeeI think latex is already available on N90001:19
trumeein the repos.01:19
Estel_but of course version tuned for Maemo would be best01:19
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Estel_hm, nice01:19
teotwaki_trumee: bibtex format is pretty standard, if it doesn't exist, writing a flexiyacc generator/parser would be easy... Integrating that into a small Qt app would be no challenge for MohammadAG.01:20
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teotwaki_3 weeks 'till it's in extras, methinks, if we got to it.01:20
Estel_MohammadAG is overprojected already01:20
teotwaki_not for me he ain't :P01:20
Estel_it took me year to convince him into update hen01:20
trumeeteotwaki_: jabref has a very nice plugin which pulls pdf directly from the journal website01:21
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teotwaki_I did not know that.01:21
trumeeteotwaki_: that feature is awesome01:21
Estel_...and he did it just when I started to do it myself :P01:21
trumeeteotwaki_: http://www.lhnr.de/ext/localcopy/index.php01:22
teotwaki_nice01:22
trumeeteotwaki_: have been using it for past few years. love using jabref because of this01:23
teotwaki_povbot: LOGMARKER JABREF01:23
povbotteotwaki_: Error: "LOGMARKER" is not a valid command.01:23
teotwaki_povbot: don't worry, google search will do it just fine :)01:23
povbotteotwaki_: Error: "don't" is not a valid command.01:23
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Estel_Installing LYX on ed frequired 482 MB of archive ;)01:26
Estel_archoves* downloading01:26
Estel_archives* heck01:26
Estel_831 MB will be used on disk01:27
Estel_wouldn't call it lightweight :P01:27
teotwaki_heh, it's funny when i see ads for my product on the telly :)01:30
merlin1991hehe01:36
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teotwaki_anyway, time for me to hit the sack01:53
teotwaki_'later dudes01:53
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Estel_merlin1991,  quick dirty info, what's about maemo icon in /debian/control ?01:58
Estel_it's somehow bundled as a text string inside control file?01:59
merlin1991yes01:59
merlin1991it's what you see in ham01:59
merlin1991there is a defined one for xterm stuff01:59
merlin1991it's somewhere on the wiki01:59
Estel_hm, thanks... how to transform?01:59
Estel_yea01:59
Estel_remember about defined for terminal only02:00
Estel_somewhere in the wiki is my favorite navigational aid :P seriously though, I'll check it.02:00
Estel_normally there is no widely-remembered way to transform icon into text stuff?02:00
merlin1991uuencode02:01
Estel_thx02:01
merlin1991it's a 48x48 png icon base 64 encoded02:02
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Estel_aye. thanks a lot, saves huge searching trip02:02
merlin1991see http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Maemo-specific_fields02:02
Estel_wow, that saves even more ;)02:03
Estel_+orry for bugging You with numerous questions...02:03
DocScrutinizern802:03
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Macerheh03:34
Macermy water drives are almost done repairing the raid03:34
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MacerWD = water drives03:34
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Hurrianspeaking of water drives, anyone else heard of HDD watercooling?03:37
Hurrianit's maximum rice.03:37
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luke-jrmy N900 battery won't charge anymore :/03:49
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befordat least those batteries are common03:50
luke-jris it the battery or the USB port? >_<03:57
Hurrianlukr-jr, power it off, and try to power it on03:59
Hurrianby plugging in the USB charger03:59
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Macerluke-jr: wooooo!!04:17
Macerluke-jr: n900s seem to have so many problems with them.. my sim reader died on me ;)04:17
Macerfirst n900 had the broken usb port problem04:17
Macerthey just slapped them together and threw them out there04:18
Macerlol04:18
luke-jrMacer: I soldered my USB port down :/04:18
Macerluke-jr: i just gave into the dark side and got a lumia 90004:18
Macerthe beta testing is over :-P04:18
luke-jra what?04:18
Macerthe wp7 phone04:18
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luke-jrwtf is wrong with yoyu04:18
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Macergot sick of using niche phones and crap ad-droid phones04:18
Macerbelieve it or not.. it's pretty awesome ;)04:19
Macerdon't judge me... i was 2 steps shy of getting an iphone :-P04:19
Maceri got sick of buying phones that break04:20
Macerlike HTC garbage and N900s heh04:20
MacerRIP N900... you served me well04:20
robbiethe1stDarn weak point.04:20
robbiethe1stPersonally, I couldn't stand it. Anything without a root terminal and unlocked bootloader is not for me04:20
Macerrobbiethe1st: well.. to each their own ;) it was cool when i didn't need something that worked.. but now i do and the lumia 900 works04:21
robbiethe1stI mean... Can your Lumia 900 run usb hostmode with a USB->serial adaptor?04:21
robbiethe1stOr USB soundcard(for SPDIF out)?04:21
Macerno but i honestly don't need those things either04:21
robbiethe1stHeck, that's the reason I still can't use my N950 as my main phone...04:22
robbiethe1stCause my N900 has the odd shit I need -- which includes a lot of stuff from easydebian.04:22
Macerrobbiethe1st: well.. maybe if you're a dev that's great.. but us mere mortals need something that can make sure that i get a data connection with my cell provider :-P04:22
Macerand charge without a port breaking off04:23
robbiethe1stActually, erm... I had excellent luck using my N900 for that. Both on-device and USB tethering, it worked absolutely perfectly. But the second is /majorly/ valid.04:23
Maceri have an ssh client for irc and doing remote shell based stuff.. that's all i need ;)04:23
Macerand a jabber client04:24
Macerother than that i need a phone to be a phone04:24
Macerthe stock stuff in wp7 is fine04:24
robbiethe1stForgive me if I disagree, but...04:24
Macerplus.. att was damn near giving them away ;)04:24
robbiethe1stOh, also, I'm not locked into a contract.04:24
Macerheh... i was too... i still am for about 3 more months.. i gave the phone to my gf so her son could use it04:25
Macerwell.. the sim04:25
Macerit wasn't wroth paying the extra $100 and she needed something for her son so it actually worked out04:25
Macerah well... i have to head out ;) ttyl .. .but yeah... i still have the n900 with the broken sim but without it being on tmob's 3G network it really isn't worth using04:26
Macerand it feels handicapped using it as a nit only04:26
Macernow it's just collecting dust04:26
robbiethe1stSad04:27
Maceri'll probably ebay it with the broken sim and see if i get any takers.. other than that it's in GREAT condition.. i took great care of it04:27
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Macerrobbiethe1st: it is.. i'm not saying i didn't love it.. i'm just saying it was time to move on ;)04:27
Theytookourjobsis there a roadmap or a release shedule when maemo will have reach stable?04:29
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TheytookourjobsI mean, how long is maemo around already?04:34
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merlin1991dafuq?04:34
merlin1991maemo is stable, it has seen several releases alreadyx04:34
Theytookourjobsmerlin1991:  now, I can prove it is now the case.04:35
Theytookourjobsmerlin1991: if you go to maemo.org it states very clearly - MAEMO [BETA] -04:36
GeneralAntillesTheytookourjobs, Maemo is discontinued.04:37
GeneralAntillesTheytookourjobs, it clearly states: maemo.org beta.04:38
GeneralAntillesLern2reed04:38
TheytookourjobsOMG! Then it will never reach stable!04:39
GeneralAntillesTheytookourjobs, warning #1 (you only get 1). Quit trolling. Nobody's interested.04:39
Theytookourjobsnow come on, that isn't really trolling. more or less you should get rid of this [beta].04:41
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Theytookourjobsmaemo.org beta,04:48
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Theytookourjobsbeta04:51
Theytookourjobsthis beta even has a red background.04:51
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Theytookourjobsyou know, in case nokia will go bankcrupt and the webserver goes offline, I'll write a wikipedia entry "...one reason might be because maemo.org was beta until the very end". no joke.04:59
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: we need a +b cleaning day eventually09:12
DocScrutinizeralmost too much for freenode ;-D09:13
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*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -bbbb *!*@114.249.217.241 ljsdofuynsdfufuh!*@* *!*@74.198.9.31 *!*lawl0r@*2001:470:25:1ee:21c:c0ff:fe19:527709:17
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -bb *!~Mayday_ja@2001:470:b0ba:0:200:1aff:fe19:b8c5 *!*@66-230-110-35-rb1.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net09:19
DocScrutinizeroops, IPv6 might be static09:19
DocScrutinizerwell, let's see09:19
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ruskiehttp://zareason.com/shop/zatab.html09:39
archeyDevilEstel_: I don't like mounting via usb for two reasons. A. It makes a part of the storage unavalible to the device it's self and requires udev on my arch to work with the storage correctly (Which doesn't always work with phones in my experience)09:39
archeyDevilSicelo: I'll look into it.. Thanks :)09:39
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SiceloarcheyDevil: actually Estel_ meant usb-networking :P09:46
archeyDevilMeh.09:47
* archeyDevil doesn't like teathering through usb :P09:47
archeyDevildbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:"This is a test"09:47
archeyDevilAnyone know how to make that notification message stay?09:47
DocScrutinizeruse SystemNoteDialog09:48
DocScrutinizerinstead of SystemNoteInfoprint09:48
DocScrutinizer$dbussend --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications \         /org/freedesktop/Notifications \         org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteDialog \         string:"`echo -en "Shutting down 5V supply for USB! Reason:\n$errortext2"`" uint32:0 string:"WARN";09:49
archeyDevilDocScrutinizer: Thanks.. Just one more question... How to get that as a function (shell)?09:54
archeyDevilso mesg "this is a message"09:55
archeyDevilMaybe a different function name.. mesg is taken :P09:55
archeyDevilJust msg then.09:55
Siceloyou can also check out `phone-control` package that does (almost) the  same with less 'typing' :P09:56
archeyDevilHaha09:57
archeyDevilso ssh method to use other parts of the phone?09:58
archeyDevilWhat repository?09:58
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* archeyDevil can't find the package :(09:59
Siceloextras, i suppose09:59
archeyDevilapt-get install ...?10:00
archeyDevilE: Couldn't find package phone-control10:00
* archeyDevil can't find it in the gui either..10:00
archeyDevileven with the search terms "phone" nor "control"10:01
* archeyDevil installs qtlockscreen :)10:01
Sicelohttp://maemo.org/packages/view/phone-control/10:01
archeyDevilIt's in extra-devel.. Going to add it :)10:03
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archeyDevilRepo added :)_10:06
archeyDevilNokia-N900:~# apt-get update; apt-get upgrade; apt-get install phone-control10:08
archeyDevil:)10:08
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archeyDevilcutetube updated overnight? o.O10:09
* archeyDevil hopes it works for downloading now :)10:09
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archeyDevilhow to use phone-control --ledon Sicelo ?10:21
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control10:23
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archeyDevilo.O Thanks10:26
archeyDevilPossible to change what colors for what events? And create new events? ( For the led )10:28
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DocScrutinizererr, the notification led?10:29
archeyDevilYea.10:29
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns10:31
DocScrutinizeretc/mce/mce.ini10:32
archeyDevilHmm.10:33
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/LED_Pattern_Editor10:34
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archeyDevilThere better alternatives to qtlockscreen?10:44
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Sicelogosh.. archeyDevil - careful with apt-get upgrade, especially with devel enable10:49
archeyDevilSicelo: XD I gave it lower priority.10:49
archeyDevilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel -- Mentions it10:50
archeyDevilAt the end of the page.10:51
Siceloi know, lol10:52
archeyDevil:)10:52
* archeyDevil isn't a complete debian noob :P10:52
* archeyDevil used to run with Debian for his desktop.... Since I tried Arch; No going back :D10:53
DocScrutinizermaemo != debian10:53
archeyDevilDocScrutinizer: Ture. However, apt-get == debian.pkgmgr10:53
DocScrutinizerbut maemo / nokia repo is a bit... unusual10:53
archeyDevilTrue.10:54
archeyDevilDebian freemantle correct?10:54
archeyDevilOr is that the maemo version?10:54
* archeyDevil doesn't remember freemantle in debian history.10:54
DocScrutinizerfremantle10:54
DocScrutinizerfremantle is maemo510:54
archeyDevils,ee,e,10:54
archeyDevilOkay :)10:54
archeyDevilMaemo going to get out of beta? ;)10:55
DocScrutinizereh?10:55
archeyDevilhttp://maemo.org/ The header :P10:55
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles kicked somebody for that question like 6h ago10:55
archeyDevilbeta10:55
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* archeyDevil wonders why it says beta yet almost no development since 2011 (afaik)10:56
DocScrutinizermaemo.org seems got a bit messed up lately10:56
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archeyDevilOkay..10:56
DocScrutinizeranyway that beta never was about maemo, it always been about the website10:56
archeyDevilOhhh.10:57
archeyDevilFair enough.10:57
DocScrutinizerand I honestly wonder who messed up maemo.org html again10:57
* archeyDevil wonders if anyone has openssh on their maemo device and don't have passwords disabled... :P (Very unsecure assuming data plan w\ enough signal)10:58
DocScrutinizerthere's no way to use ssh without password10:58
archeyDevilYes there is..10:58
archeyDevilssh-keygen; ssh-copy-id etc10:58
* archeyDevil blocked password login for ssh. Keys required.10:59
archeyDevilkey *10:59
DocScrutinizeroops, sorry I misread10:59
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* archeyDevil has keys for all his computers ( and now phone )10:59
DocScrutinizerpaswords DISabled10:59
eddybthis is weird, ~/MyDocs is read-only, how did that happen?11:00
* archeyDevil is root so doesn't notice ;)11:00
archeyDevildrwxrwxrwx   14 user     root        65536 May 21 17:26 MyDocs11:00
archeyDevileddyb: just chown 700 to the folder.11:01
psycho_oreoseddyb, unclean mount?11:01
eddybno idea11:01
* archeyDevil knows that is 777 but fixing that up now.11:01
psycho_oreosthat's a bad idea11:01
eddybwhy is it vfat?11:01
archeyDevilchmod 700 *11:01
psycho_oreosfor users who have windows PC or otherwise non-*nix based PC11:01
eddybbut...11:01
eddybhow do I copy 13GB of files onto it, then?11:01
* archeyDevil used sshfs11:02
archeyDevilapt-get install openssh; sshfs from desktop. Mounted phone via ssh.11:02
psycho_oreoseddyb, remount it as rw, make sure no other programs are using it.. though I'd still check dmesg11:02
psycho_oreossshfs won't work even if the fs is mounted as read-only.. not even root can write to it11:03
eddybI managed to delete some files11:03
eddybbut not copy others11:03
eddybnow, the app (evopedia) can only load files from one of the vfat partitions11:04
eddyband my files are 13GB11:04
eddybthat won't fit in a vfat partition11:04
eddyb:(11:04
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: True...11:04
archeyDevileddyb: df -h11:04
eddybhmm?11:04
archeyDevilEhh. dw11:05
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* archeyDevil crys at df w\ busybox11:05
archeyDevilno -T :'(11:05
psycho_oreos~messybox11:06
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils11:06
* psycho_oreos is certain someone else would agree in here ;)11:06
* archeyDevil knows it's type not giving read/write mode for the mount11:06
eddybhow the heck has a FAT partition 25GB?11:06
archeyDevileddyb: Nokia n900?11:06
psycho_oreosI've installed bash along with many other proper utils, though from time to time I do use busybox-power (not busybox standard package) and regular gnutools11:07
archeyDevileddyb: Nokia N900, comes with that partition like that so it can be unmounted for windows/non-nix systems to mount it via usb/mass-storage.11:07
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eddybbut FAT32 has a limit of 4GB11:07
archeyDevilE: Couldn't find package zsh11:08
* archeyDevil cries.11:08
psycho_oreosfor single file sizes yes.. but you that doesn't mean you can make it purely ext3 (though with some hacks)11:08
eddybuser "user" is not allowed to run umount11:08
archeyDevileddyb: No it doesn't.11:08
psycho_oreoseddyb, sudo or do it as root11:08
eddybarcheyDevil: hmm, I thought it did11:08
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, I think ruskie has zsh via his repo (though I don't think it was stable)11:08
* archeyDevil wonders which he should have installed? rootsh or gainroot?11:08
eddybpsycho_oreos: that's what sudo says11:08
psycho_oreoseddyb, try getting a root console instead11:09
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: Interesting.. However, not stable.. I'm not using it :)11:09
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ruskieyeah I have zsh11:09
ruskiewhat do you mean stable?11:09
archeyDevilpftt.. What am I talking about.. Gimme zsh :)11:09
eddybpsycho_oreos: how?11:09
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: install rootsh or gainroot (I just asked which is prefured; don't know which, I'm using rootsh here)11:10
psycho_oreosruskie, *shrugs* I recall you had it under `broken' part of your repository but *shrugs* its been a long while since I last checked11:10
psycho_oreoseddyb, sudo -i11:10
archeyDevilruskie: Whats your repo info?11:10
ruskiepsycho_oreos, the broken stuff is something else ;)11:10
* archeyDevil is new to maemo btw. ( Not Linux )11:10
ruskiearcheyDevil, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie11:10
ruskieshould all be there11:10
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* archeyDevil is used to Arch Linux ( And other Linux systems such as Debian, Slack, etc. Oh and BSD's too )11:11
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archeyDevil:)11:11
archeyDevilruskie: thanks11:11
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, I'm personally neither :) I just use R&D mode and access gainroot from there if needed be but these days my sudo automatically takes care of that11:11
eddybuser "user" is apparently not allowed to run anything11:11
psycho_oreosruskie, ahh I see11:11
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: Fair enough.11:12
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psycho_oreoseddyb, its a logical security feature.. obviously synonymous with every other regular linux distro out there11:12
eddyb...11:12
archeyDevileddyb: app manager, install rootsh or gainroot11:12
eddybit's the message sudo gives me11:12
eddybokay11:12
archeyDevilzsh - just don't set it as your default shell11:12
archeyDevilruskie: What about default for root and have another user toor? :)11:13
eddybtime to wait another half an hour for the app manager to load]11:13
archeyDevileddyb: XD it's slow.. Once you have installed it just use apt-get to install from the command line.. FAR FASTER :D11:13
eddybis the password for root the same as for user?11:14
ruskiearcheyDevil, I have some stuff in my .ashrc that auto executes zsh on ssh and I have a custom shortcut for the terminal11:14
psycho_oreoseddyb, what about sudo gainroot? I assume you don't have openssh-daemon, rootsh or gainroot installed11:14
eddybbecause it seemed to have worked11:14
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eddybI have only openssh11:14
archeyDevilruskie: Nice :)11:14
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psycho_oreoseddyb, if it has worked you should get a root prompt11:14
eddybhmm, the user password doesn't work for root in sftp11:15
eddybbut it "works" for sudo, except sudo thinks I'm too stupid to touch anything as root11:15
archeyDevilruskie: haha, My remove list :D11:15
psycho_oreoseddyb, normally iinm it should be the password you set when you installed openssh-client-server11:15
eddybwell, I set a password11:16
archeyDevilruskie: You have a screencast of your phone (from boot onwards)?11:16
psycho_oreoswell I'd change password for root and you'll have ssh/sftp access via root11:16
eddyband it works for user11:16
ruskiearcheyDevil, nope11:16
eddyband root in sudo11:16
archeyDevilruskie: D:11:16
eddybbut not root in ssh11:16
psycho_oreosyeah you'll need to set passwd for root.. by default the passwd for root is `rootme'11:16
archeyDevilruskie: Your maemo device.. Nokia n900?11:17
eddybrootsh is gainroot, btw11:17
ruskiearcheyDevil, yup11:17
archeyDevilruskie: :)11:17
* archeyDevil got his Nokia n900 yesterday :D11:17
archeyDevileBay AU$12011:18
psycho_oreos*shrugs* like I said, I only use R&D mode and gainroot works well11:18
psycho_oreos2 years back and you would have looked somewhere almost three times that price11:18
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eddybumount/mount as root (with gainroot) worked :D11:19
eddybthanks guys :D11:19
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: R&D?11:19
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eddybwhat, 8h :|?11:19
psycho_oreoseddyb, I'd still check dmesg as to why it was mounted ro, I'm certain only if the FS is uncleanly mounted for instance would make it remount as ro11:19
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, research and development.. a mode that can only be enabled via flasher tool (and linux only). Though its not recommended for average/daily use (though personally I really don't care :))11:20
psycho_oreoseddyb, 8h?11:20
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: Haha. So development maemo version?11:20
eddybpsycho_oreos: to copy those 13GB11:21
archeyDevilruskie: What does your bootmenu change for you?11:21
ruskiearcheyDevil, just gives me a shell and ssh though it's untested really11:21
eddybpsycho_oreos: apparently a FAT entry beyond EOF11:21
ruskieI think I tried it once or twice11:21
archeyDevilruskie: Haha.11:21
archeyDevilSo no X?11:21
ruskienope11:22
ruskieit's meant to recover the system11:22
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, not so much development but it just adds some fancy verbose messages at boot plus maybe slightly more verbose stuff in dmesg and other things.. again not really recommended for average joe as it may also drain battery11:22
ruskieit also requires fbcon11:22
psycho_oreoseddyb, yeah I'd run fsck imo11:22
archeyDevilruskie: Yea, fbcon? Isn't that just for framebuffers on the console? ( i.e console background? )11:23
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, R&D mode is also used when one cannot boot their device regularly as it can be used to disable/bypass certain hardware features, such as hw watchdog11:23
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: How to flash the whole phone?11:24
psycho_oreos~flashing11:24
infobotsomebody said maemo-flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware11:24
psycho_oreos^11:24
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: I mean. On the keyboard while booting.. Flash from image on the device as normal phones?11:24
archeyDevilNot giving it custom firmware11:24
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, flashing on the keyboard? you mean like LED flashes on the keyboard?11:25
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: No..11:25
* archeyDevil means, during boot. wipe the phone so it's the default image ( as from manufacture )11:25
* archeyDevil just wiped his Nokia n95 by mistake D:11:26
archeyDevilLol11:26
psycho_oreoswell that's done through flashing as pointed above... you can't flash the device once it enters into operational state.. there are certain conditions which has to be met for one to enter flash mode at boot11:26
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archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: I know.. I was asking during the boot. ( as you press the on button ) What buttons to also hold to flash/reset/wipe the phone?11:27
psycho_oreosn95 is a different case, the last time I flashed it was using nokia suite and that was to update.. there's a software called phoenix flasher which apparently is used by nokia technicians.. and there's firmwares for n95 floating around.. I think cpkb.org is one site where you maybe able to obtain info11:27
* archeyDevil isn't going to do it now. ( Got all my music; just would be great if I do brick it :P )11:27
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: n95 is too easy to reset/flash/wipe.11:28
archeyDeviln900 on the other hand.. How?11:28
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, for N900 its the letter U, but you hold it down as soon as you see USB icon11:28
psycho_oreosagain its noted on the wiki11:28
* archeyDevil can't find it on the wiki....11:28
archeyDevilN900: While holding the u key, connect the N900 to your computer via USB. Wait until you see a dim screen on your N900 with a Nokia logo in the middle of your screen with an USB icon in the top right corner. Note: You may not need to hold the U key - it seems to automatically flash if the flasher is ready at boot time.11:29
archeyDevil:D11:29
archeyDevilFound it :P11:29
archeyDevil/ u11:29
psycho_oreosI was about to paste that exact same line :รพ11:29
archeyDevil:)11:29
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: haha11:29
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psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, I'd also take note of the paragraph directly below the one you just pasted11:30
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: already read.11:30
archeyDevilNot really much as it's just obvious.11:30
archeyDevilimho11:30
psycho_oreostrue but not all people realises that and complain (and you get all these tmo threads)11:31
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archeyDevilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie - My remove list -- Anything in that list that I'd have to consider removing or not? (Looks legit to me)11:31
* archeyDevil will leave adobe flash for the pure fact that cutetube doesn't want to work..11:32
* archeyDevil might try out another alt11:32
ruskiearcheyDevil, I use youtube-dl11:33
archeyDevilmodest -- Thats the email client right?11:33
* archeyDevil keeps that :P11:33
archeyDevilMaybe remove the other language packs..11:34
archeyDevilnokiamessaging -- Whats this?11:34
archeyDevilNokia-N900:~# apt-get install ytube qmltube mytube11:37
* archeyDevil tests out a few :)11:37
archeyDevilAfter this operation, 42.1MB of additional disk space will be used.11:37
archeyDevilXD11:37
archeyDevilthats more than my average archlinux update.11:37
* archeyDevil stops talking alone.11:38
archeyDevilruskie: ezitext-english-us You removed this.. There other english?11:41
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ruskiearcheyDevil, I don't use ezitext at all11:44
archeyDevilOkay11:44
SiceloarcheyDevil: flashing using hardware button is not actually flashing.. it's just a deep reset .. most usually seen on symbian devices11:45
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archeyDevilWhat is ezitext?11:52
archeyDevilruskie:11:53
* archeyDevil hates it when ssh stops replying for his phone -.-11:54
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* archeyDevil thanks xargs :D11:59
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archeyDevilstdin http://sprunge.us/eCHM?text12:02
archeyDevilwth?12:02
archeyDevilIt won't let me uninstall them! D:12:02
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archeyDevil:) --yes12:04
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* archeyDevil just removed one very nice feature from maemo :P Just got one desktop/workspace :P12:12
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archeyDevilapt-get install aircrack-ng12:14
archeyDevilAhh.. Whoops12:15
psycho_oreosneeds more than just that12:15
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: What? aircrack?12:16
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, yes aircrack-ng needs more than just installing that package alone in order for one to gain benefits12:16
archeyDevilTrue; What to install though? ( Used to backtrack just having it )12:17
psycho_oreoskernel power + lxp `bleeding edge' drivers12:17
archeyDevilEh.12:18
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: Serious, needs custom kernel?12:18
psycho_oreosthat's just the standard stuff, there's an optional stuff you can install which will allow you to switch between wireless drivers on the fly12:18
archeyDevilAnd more drivers?12:18
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, for injection support yes..12:18
archeyDevilo.O12:18
* archeyDevil doesn't really need to inject. But yes, I guess thats a great feature.12:18
* archeyDevil might get a ubertooth so might be monitoring bluetooth too :)12:19
psycho_oreosaireplay-ng requires injection and aireplay-ng is part of aircrack-ng suite12:19
psycho_oreosthere's kismet and bluetooth plugin I think in the repos12:20
archeyDevilpsycho_oreos: What do I run to get these extra drivers ( and otf driver switcher? )12:20
psycho_oreosarcheyDevil, there's a thread (well a fair few to be frank) that discusses where to get lxp's drivers. From memory I think its http://david.gnedt.eu/12:20
psycho_oreosotf driver switcher was by another bloke, I can't remember the name of the package but I think it was written by ossipena (tmo handle)12:21
archeyDevilhttp://david.gnedt.eu/blog/2010/12/28/bleeding-edge-wl1251-driver-for-maemo-fremantle/12:21
archeyDevil:)12:21
psycho_oreosyou'll still need kp anyway12:22
psycho_oreosand kp adds things like USB hostmode which is directly related to your desires in wanting to attach ubertooth to yer N90012:25
* archeyDevil might continue this tomorrow. I have to go now.. Cya12:26
psycho_oreoscya12:26
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narcosHey all. I've installed openvpn, and am trying to start it via the command line with "/etc/init.d/openvpn start"13:13
narcosThe message I get is "Starting virtual private network daemon: Autostart disabled."13:14
narcosAnd no VPN seems to come up, and the above messages seems like it should only be a warning13:14
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MohammadAGWell considering the script is used for autostart...13:15
MohammadAGpastebin it13:15
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cityLightsnarcos: you should define a vpn acording to the debian guide lines13:16
cityLightswhere did you put the vpn config files?13:16
narcosMohammadAG: Here's the autostart script, which is just the default one which ships with the installation13:17
narcoscityLights: I can start the openvpn fine manually, "openvpn --config /etc/openvpn.conf"13:18
cityLightsright, I remember I had to run it manually13:18
cityLightsand fixed the script... let me see13:18
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narcosahhhh13:18
narcoscityLights: That'd be awesome :)13:19
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cityLightsnarcos: I need 1hr to get the script13:28
narcoscityLights: Phew, big config file ;-)13:29
narcoscityLights: But no worries, I'll be around13:29
narcoscityLights: I appreciate your help13:30
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cityLightspls check the talk.maemo.org for openvpn, I think I may have posted it13:37
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narcoscityLights: Checking...13:44
narcoscityLights: Not finding it...13:49
cityLightsok, keep tuned13:57
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cityLightsbtw, you may use a widget to run the vpn config you want13:58
cityLightsthere is a openvpn widget13:58
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narcoscityLights: Naww I need to do stuff from CLI14:38
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MohammadAGandre__: #maemo-bugs's dead right?14:43
andre__MohammadAG, yes14:44
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cityLightsnarcos: I think I just ran it manually from the cli15:27
cityLightsis this also your version:15:27
cityLights85f23f875a45f38c6fcd22d236d67647  /etc/init.d/openvpn15:27
cityLightspls run: md5sum  /etc/init.d/openvpn  and post the line15:28
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teotwakiheh15:38
teotwakiChrome beats IE.15:38
teotwakihttp://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-weekly-201121-20122115:38
jacekowskiwell, google did some pretty heavy marketing15:40
chem|stteotwaki: most downloads from IE - mozilla firefox; most initial searches with bling - mozilla firefox15:41
chem|stehrm bing15:41
jacekowskifirefox is shit15:42
jacekowskii'm not sure if you noticed that firefox is losing users as well15:42
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chem|stjacekowski: firefox is eating RAM15:44
chem|stand getting slow...15:44
narcoscityLights: 27b6481561705b9e744da6a6d4b6957b  /etc/init.d/openvpn15:46
narcosNot the same it seems15:46
narcoscityLights: So yeah, I think I'll just do a "openvpn --config /etc/openvpn.conf"15:47
cityLightsI think its what I did15:47
cityLightslet me post my init15:47
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narcosk cool :)15:48
narcosAlso, what's the best way to install dhcpd3-server on the maemo? I don't like udhcpd15:50
narcos(N900)15:50
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cityLightsnarcos: http://dpaste.com/750758/15:55
jacekowskichem|st: that's nothing new15:58
jacekowskichem|st: it's been doing that for years15:58
Sicelonarcos: server? iirc dnsmasq is on by default15:59
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narcoscityLights: Thanks!16:01
narcosSicelo: I want to hand out dhcp leases on my hotspot. I'm using udhcpd at the moment16:02
SiceloN900 will hand the IP's out?16:03
narcosyeah16:04
narcoscityLights:16:05
narcosNokia-N900:/etc/openvpn# /etc/init.d/openvpn start16:05
narcosStarting virtual private network daemon: Autostart disabled.16:05
narcosWith your config16:05
narcosHmm16:05
Sicelodnsmasq can handle that .. examples are here ..http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_PirateBox, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_router16:06
narcosSicelo: ok thanks16:09
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narcosSo, for example, I did want to install dhcpd3-server instead of dnsmasq (for existing configs etc) - could I?16:32
narcosI can't seem to find a .deb16:32
Sicelodefinitely not in any repos -- you can roll out your own :P16:32
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narcosSicelo: Not sure what you mean by rolling out my own :)16:33
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cityLightshe means you can get the source to a development env then make build it16:34
narcosah16:38
narcosgotcha16:39
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juozapashi i'm looking for n900 charger circuit. I guess it's similar to iphone charger, it uses not only vcc and gnd but data lines too. anyway, maybe someone has any experience with that ?17:20
jogajuozapas afaik, you just need to short the data pins17:21
jogaI just recently built a ghetto solar charger for usb stuff and just soldered the two middle pins together, it worked at least17:21
jogabut to do a fast charging circuit, I don't know about that17:22
juozapasi found that many iphone users put resistors between data lines and vcc gnd17:22
Siceloafaik it's joga's design which is correct for N90017:23
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merlin1991juozapas: iphone is fucked up17:27
merlin1991n900 follows the usb specs17:27
merlin1991thus short that datalines to make the phone recognize your circuit as a "dumb" charger17:28
jacekowskiwell, as much as i hate to say that, apple way of detecting charger is better17:28
juozapas:/17:28
merlin1991jacekowski: what do they do actually?17:28
jacekowski2.5V on data lines17:29
jacekowskithrough iirc 10k resistors from VCC and GND17:29
jacekowskirather than dead short17:29
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jacekowskihttp://www.ladyada.net/images/mintyboost/usb4res.png17:30
jacekowski2.06V and 2.76V17:30
juozapasfuck i have to make new pcb now..17:31
jacekowskithat way you can always add easy signaling later on17:32
jacekowskito signal higher powered charger17:32
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: did you have an eye on tizen? intel and samsung are promising to bring netbooks (in Q3) and smartphones (in Q4)17:42
juozapasis it save to charge other devices (like ebook readers, ipod, camera, gps) with data lines shorted ?17:43
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fluxtizen was that web2.0 mobile platform?17:45
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*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -b *!*@154.Red-79-148-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net17:51
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DocScrutinizer51yay17:52
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -b Teth!*@*17:52
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -b pupni*!*@*17:52
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: nope17:52
GeneralAntilles^ we probably shouldn't ban him for more than 24 hours.17:52
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chem|stjuozapas: it is the USB standard to do so17:52
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DocScrutinizer51whom? pupnik?17:53
GeneralAntillesYeah17:53
DocScrutinizer51he asked for permanent ban17:53
chem|sto.O17:53
GeneralAntillesDid he?17:53
DocScrutinizer51yep actrually17:53
DocScrutinizer51gently and honest17:53
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -b porcher*!*@*17:53
GeneralAntillesAh well, hopefully he's over it.17:53
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MohammadAGhaven't seen him for a while17:54
DocScrutinizer51s/gently/polite/17:54
infobotDocScrutinizer51 meant: polite and honest17:54
chem|stjuozapas: the n900 is the only device I know not charging, but chargers should have datalines crossed17:54
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chem|stflux: LiMo+MeeGo+Intel+Samsung=Tizen17:55
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GeneralAntillesOK, keeping the bot bans17:55
juozapaschem|st: what do u mean 'not charging'? if i understand corect it should charge when data lines are crossed17:56
* DocScrutinizer51 feels reminded at 'orbit cleaning day' as introduced by 'Max Headroom'17:58
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  whos is pupnik? what he did to earn ban? ;)18:01
merlin1991Estel_: be happy not to know :D18:01
Woody14619USB2 standard is 200mA at plugin, which is enough to charge most devices when idle (including N900).  After negotiation (or proper detection, like shorted data pins) amperage draw can go up to 500mA.18:01
Estel_Woody14619,  I always heard of 100 mA @ plugin18:02
Estel_and 500 after neg.18:02
Estel_and after shorted data pins, it can go up to 1.8A18:03
Estel_as per usb dedicated charging pin spec18:03
GeneralAntillesEstel_, he's a Maemo legend.18:03
Estel_negotiation - 500mA, crossed data - 1.8A (up to)18:03
GeneralAntillesEstel_, one of the original emulator guys.18:03
Estel_thats why I asked, I like legends. Less interested in him (or totally not interested), interested in story behind it18:04
Woody14619Estel_, my bad, you are correct, spec is min of 100mA.  Most PCs offer 200mA though.18:04
Woody14619Estel_: Though USB2 max spec is 900mA.  USB3 I believe goes up to 1.8A.18:05
* Estel_ nods18:05
Estel_arghhh, damn fm radio program, it keeps stucking on heavy swap usage18:06
Estel_I would be very grateful for proper fm radio implementation (utilising allowed passthrough to jack/speakera without working on cpu power)18:06
Estel_No idea why it wasn't ever implemented :/18:07
MohammadAGmax is 900?18:07
Woody14619Mind you, shorted data pins means no negotiations, and the 900mA is max negotiable power by USB2 spec.  So...  you could run 5A over it if you wanted in your custom app, but be prepared for it to not work with most chargers. ;)18:07
MohammadAGNokia's charger outputs 1200mA18:07
Estel_we have one FM radio program with fancy UI, yet bugged as hell18:07
MohammadAGwhich is?18:08
jacekowskiWoody14619: well, usb specs makes a provision of "negotiation" of current by limiting voltage18:08
Estel_Woody14619,  I'm absolutely sure 1.8 A is max as per USB *dedicated charging* port specification18:08
Estel_btw, all dumb chargers with usb port are dedicated charging ports18:08
Estel_...as usb specified dedicated charging port can't be used for normal usb connection = got data pins shorted solid = it's dumb charger in reality18:09
Estel_...coming back to radio thread, we got another radio ap in qt, also working on cpu, but only mono due to bugs in qt...18:09
Estel_MohammadAG,  "FM Radio" is bugged as hell18:10
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Estel_this one with interface looking like old radio18:10
Woody14619Estel_, while that may be the concesus amoung manufactures, it's not part of the USB2 spec.  (But then neither is shorting the data pins, other then saying that applications must be able to handle that.)18:10
chem|stjuozapas: dumb chargers do not negotiate so they have to have crossed datalines for n900s to charge at all18:10
Estel_with kinetic scrolling of frequency18:10
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Estel_Woody14619,  I remember reading about "dedicated" (aka dumb) charging port in usb specification18:11
Estel_no idea where, honestly18:11
jacekowskinope18:11
jacekowskithere is separate spec for usb charging18:11
Woody14619May have been an addendum at some point, but it's not part of the actual USB spec.18:11
Estel_... why the hell no one uses capability of our radio module (analog passthrough without involving cpu yet controlable from userland = from program)18:12
Estel_jacekowski,  thanks18:12
* Estel_ agree18:12
jacekowskilook people18:12
jacekowskispec is public18:12
Estel_btw under my desktop I got 20A usb charging port :P18:12
jacekowskijust read it18:12
jacekowskihttp://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_101111.zip18:13
jacekowskihttp://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_30_spec_022412.zip18:13
jacekowskiall docs are there18:13
Woody14619Is there a coper path from the radio output to the jack or speakers?18:13
jacekowskiWoody14619: no18:13
Estel_Woody14619,  sec, I'll find refference link18:13
Estel_unless jacekowski remeber it exactly18:13
DocScrutinizer51usb charging supplement18:14
jacekowskiit's in that zip18:14
Estel_jacekowski,  but I'm not talking bullshit about analog passthrough, yep?18:14
Woody14619jacekowski, Thanks. Yes, I've got a copy of that, but have read mainly the parts I've care about for projects.  It's a rather dry/boring read for the most part.18:14
jacekowskiEstel_: bit pointless18:14
Estel_why?18:14
jacekowskiEstel_: it doesn't use a lot of cpu power18:14
jacekowskias long as you don't involve PA18:14
Estel_but still = shorten battery life using fm radio. and, what's more important to me...18:15
Estel_this thing stutters/freeze on swap usage18:15
Estel_analog passthrough should free us from that18:15
jacekowskiwell, that's because implementation is shit18:15
Estel_goddamn useless android phones are known for playing radio stutterless even if os hangs up almost completely18:15
jacekowskiyes, because implementation isn't so fucked up18:16
jacekowskin900 uses piece of shit called PA18:16
Estel_but they're using passthrough. If i start fm radio on N900 and android, N900 is half second delayed due to processing on cpu18:16
jacekowskiwith plain alsa it could have been done in 3 lines of code that could have been easily mlocked18:16
Estel_I see.18:16
jacekowskiEstel_: again, that's because shit called PA18:16
Estel_ok, but analog passthrough take us out of PA too, yep?18:16
Estel_I see and understand.18:16
jacekowskiyes, but that's not required18:16
jacekowskiyou still want notifications and audio from other apps18:17
jacekowskiso you can't just change over18:17
Estel_ok, but implementing passthrough is much more complicated that implementing pa-free on-cpu processing?18:17
jacekowskiyes18:17
Estel_I see.18:18
Estel_so what You would propose to *properly* implement fm radio application, witch least hassle required?18:18
jacekowskion n900?18:18
jacekowskiyou can't18:18
Estel_yea18:18
Estel_hm18:18
jacekowskibut in simple word18:19
jacekowskiwords18:19
Woody14619I propose you go to a dollar store and get a cheep fm receiver... much easer. :)18:19
jacekowskiget rid of PA18:19
Estel_passthrough can't coexist with notifications from programs (latter via pulseaudio)18:19
jacekowskichange it to alsa builtin DMIX18:19
Estel_Woody14619,  not the point18:19
Estel_I also record fm radio on N90018:19
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jacekowskifix all apps that relied on PA directly18:19
Estel_passthrough can't coexist with notifications from programs (latter via pulseaudio) <- it was meant to be question, ? got eaten18:20
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Woody14619I generally find most of the carp on FM isn't worth listening to, yet alone recording. :P  It's 70% commercials and 25% top 40.  But to each their own. :)18:20
Estel_Woody14619,  in Poland we got polish radio program 3 with is all different ;)18:21
Estel_for both many polish people and overbroad artist, it's best radio station in the world ;)18:21
jacekowskiEstel_: not really18:21
jacekowskiwhat????????18:21
jacekowskistop spreading BS like that18:21
Estel_?18:21
Woody14619I'm sure it is, if you speak Polish. ;)18:22
Estel_erm, gustas et not discutante I would say18:22
jacekowski3 is pretty bad18:22
Estel_well, see above18:22
Estel_(as for overbroad artists I mean Tori Amos, Peter Gabriel, old good leo cohen, Archive, zeppelins, old guys from pink floyd etc etc)18:23
Woody14619I mainly use the interent radio for content.  And on some occasions shortwave.  (Though that's saddly going away, what with BBC reducing US coverage and what not).18:23
Estel_all were here in 3's recording studio, and were amazed18:23
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Estel_I like when radio speaks to me, instead of shouting playlist on me18:24
jacekowskii hate when they talk on radio18:24
Estel_3 is quite eclectic18:24
Estel_well, if I need background music, I got my own.18:24
Estel_from radio I expect something more18:24
Estel_personalities, intelligent conversation (also about music), new musical horizons...18:25
Woody14619Well, here in the US, you have three choices:  FM=Top 40 and commercials, almost exclusivly.  AM=Right-wing talk (and maybe PBS/NPR), or pay for XM where you get less commercials but otherwise most of the same content as FM.18:25
Estel_it's quite funny, cause, for example, Piotr Kaczkowski is known only for 3's fans in Poland, yet, one of most respected music journalists abroad, at least in so called "ambitious" music world18:26
Estel_Woody14619,  I know and feel Your pain18:26
Estel_3 is all about music and personalities. We've got many *real* music/music journalist personalities here18:27
Estel_both from "old good times" and new ones learning stuff from masters18:27
Estel_it's quite a Community around 318:27
Estel_so, when jacekowski said "i don't like when they speak in radio"18:27
Estel_it reminds me of iphone fans saying "what, opening terminal to do anything?!"18:28
Estel_;)18:28
jacekowskii want them to play music18:28
Estel_gustas et... etc ;)18:28
jacekowskii only listen to radio in a car and i can't really focus on what they are talking about18:28
Estel_Iphone fans want them to "just work" ;)18:28
jacekowskibecause i'm focusing on a moron that is behind/in front of me18:29
Estel_I understand. Well, I listen to radio almost all awake time, while doing other things too18:29
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Estel_yea, another thing about most polish car drivers - everyone see morons all around on street :P18:29
Estel_while I agree there are many...18:29
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Estel_I'm curious why there is so much aggression, hidden or not, in roads. Never seen that in any other country I've been in, even in eghypt and cairo18:30
teotwakicairo is a country now?18:30
Estel_very funny18:30
teotwakianyway, road-rage is everywhere. It's not local.18:31
Estel_...but, considering that it's unofficially 27 000 000 people...18:31
Estel_and poland is 38 000 00018:31
Estel_why not.18:31
Estel_teotwaki,  I know18:31
teotwakiso? London is 15M+, Belgium is 11M+.18:31
jacekowskiteotwaki: you've never been to poland then18:31
Estel_^agree18:31
teotwakijacekowski: actually, I've driven through Poland.18:31
Estel_I see jacekowski know what I mean ;)18:32
jacekowskithings like people ignoring red light, overtaking when it's not safe to do so and things like that are pretty common18:32
jacekowskias in, you see it few times a day18:32
jacekowskii'm doing something around 40000 miles/year18:32
teotwakiand? Grab a taxi in Italy and ask him to get you quickly from one train station to the other -- exactly the same behaviour.18:32
jacekowskiteotwaki: nothing like that18:33
jacekowskifirst thing18:33
Estel_btw, funny fact - in eghypt, where no one cares about lights etc but everyone know it, You got much more small, non-fatal collisions18:33
jacekowskiin poland people don't try to avoid accidents18:33
Estel_although much less fatal ones.18:33
Estel_In countries when You actually expect other to obey the law, much less small, unharmfull colisions, yet more fatal ones18:33
teotwakiTry India.18:33
jacekowskiwhen you see somebody pulls out in front of you18:34
Estel_I suspect it's because on eghypt etc everyone *know* to 100% not trust anyone around18:34
teotwakiEgypt*18:34
jacekowskiin normal country it you slow down first trying to avoid accident18:34
jacekowskiin poland, first - horn, second - accelerate18:34
Estel_jacekowski,  but teotwaki got a point here, simillar behavior is in italy18:34
jacekowskibecause they had right of way18:34
teotwakiIndia is probably the worst place on Earth I've had to drive.18:35
jacekowskiEstel_: in italy taxi driver will try to avoid accidents18:35
Estel_...but polish car drivers tend to think they're "better" than those barbarians in italy or egypt18:35
jacekowskibecause that means time without a car and no work18:35
Estel_jacekowski,  You're exxagerating it a little. idiots happen, but most people will try to avoid accident :P18:35
jacekowskiEstel_: not really18:35
jacekowskiEstel_: everywhere else, it's brakes first18:35
Estel_teotwaki,  agree that india is even worse18:35
jacekowskiEstel_: in poland it's horn first18:36
Estel_but, we're - suppposedly - in europe...18:36
Estel_hehe, horn first is really strange thing18:36
Estel_although I agre18:36
jacekowskiand people doing 60km/h or more through towns18:36
Estel_if only 60;)18:36
Estel_80-90 is absolutely common18:37
Estel_110 is seen 2-3 times a day (some idiot)18:37
Estel_at least here in Poznan18:37
Estel_in warsav it's even worse, sometimes18:37
jacekowskiwhich gives you total stopping distance of 40m+18:37
jacekowskiat 60km/h18:37
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jogain india I guess the speeds are relatively low18:38
teotwakijoga: beg your pardon?18:39
jogateotwaki I haven't driven there, just judging by the videos I've seen and my friends who have18:39
teotwakijoga: people will happily do 80-100 (kph) on any road, whether the lights on their vehicle are working or not.18:39
teotwaki(at night)18:39
jogabut in a crowded, messed up intersection in a city it seems unlikely you can even drive straight for more than a couple of meters18:40
Estel_hehe, fun thing in india is that people crossing road don't care about anything driving there18:41
teotwakiRight outside Pondi, near Auroville, there's a famous crossing -- small dirt road that goes to Avy (actually, might be paved by now) that crosses with a "main" road to Pondi. there's roughly 1 deadly accident a day.18:41
Estel_and people driving dont't care about someone crossing road18:41
jacekowskijoga: yeah, but everyone is trying to avoid bumping into other cars18:41
teotwakihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxZxjgKcsPE18:41
Estel_it's a interesting think than no road holocaust happens18:41
teotwaki(I got a +5 Interesting on Slashdot for posting a link to that video...)18:42
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jogawhen I used to live in soviet russia behind our house there was some road where every week at least there was a pile-up with deaths18:42
Estel_btw I remember when guys from polish radio 3 ( ;) ) have gone in motorcycle trip around world18:42
joganowadays I hear the police there fine people even for not using the signals18:43
Estel_...and in india...18:43
Estel_1 guy without legs on platform with wheels tried as hard ase he could (he was quite fast, suprisingly) to get under motorcycle18:43
Estel_as he hope to get money after18:43
jogajacekowski yeah, which - I guess - would keep the speeds there low enough that not *all* of them die :)18:43
Estel_they need to kick him during actual driving18:44
Estel_to not allow him get under wheel18:44
jogahow does he stop?18:44
jogaoh, nevermind18:44
teotwakijoga: if you think you get fined in India for not using your indicators, think about this: helmets are "recommended", not obligatory.18:45
jogaread that the legless guy was attempting to drive the cycle18:45
Estel_no idea, there were 2 of them on 2 motorcycles and one of them needed to kick him while avoiding18:45
jogateotwaki sure18:45
Estel_ahaha18:45
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MrPingumerlin1991: Which package do I need for gst-launch-0.10?18:50
merlin1991lemme check18:51
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merlin1991MrPingu:  I think its gstreamer-tools18:53
MrPinguAtleast, it downloads something...18:54
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Estel_merlin1991,  what is /debian/compat file in source package?18:56
Estel_most packages have "5" there, although I've seen "7" too18:56
merlin1991it's the minimum version of debhelper the package script demands18:56
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merlin1991autobuilder runs 5 by default so 5 is perfect18:56
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Estel_I see. thanks18:57
MrPinguYes, it is :) Thanks, but ximagesrc is no element?18:58
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MrPinguSeems I dont have libistximagesrc.so, from what I found out in google19:11
MrPinguMaybe I am missing a plugin package?19:11
MrPinguGot to go now, if you know don't hesitate to write it here I will read back the log :)19:12
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Estel_Funny, I'm on ad-hoc wifi, listening to fm radio via speakers and browsing tmo via chromim - I'm charging via dedicated charger and barely 150 mA is put into battery, rest consumed by working things19:13
Estel_(battery less than half charged, so it's not rate limiting)19:14
freemangordonad-hoc wifi?19:14
Estel_yea19:14
Estel_it consumes most power19:14
freemangordonthere is where the current is flowing19:14
Estel_exactly19:14
Estel_If I would enable torch, make screen to go max brightness + enable gps and something else, I would be consuming more than charging circuit cn pull19:15
Estel_can*19:15
Estel_I'm on specific situation now - my AP is working in client mode, so I must transfer net via ethernet cable through whole room and corridor, then, my notebook streams wifi to N900 via ad-hoc19:16
Estel_if I would have 2 ap's, one would be wifi client, and another one would be connected via cable and spread net under new name19:17
Estel_(I'm doing this because signal is enough only in one place oh a house, and using pt with boosted transmit power)19:17
Estel_haha, sounds like perfect scenario for stealing wifi bandwidth from someone, lol19:18
Estel_not that I'm doing so19:18
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ioanIs moving from a n900 to a n9 a good idea or should I keep the n900?19:23
_berto_ioan: it all depends on what you're looking for19:25
_berto_ioan: the n9 is a smartphone, the n900 is a pocket linux-based computer19:26
_berto_that's how I see it19:26
Gh0stynot giving any money to mokiasoft19:26
Corsacand the n9 has less apps than n900, too19:26
Corsac(in case that matters)19:27
Gh0styso i keep my n90019:27
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Gh0stylucky i have it with me right now19:27
Corsacwell, the n9 is really nice, I dont regret it19:28
Gh0styin hospital for most of the day ... with nothing to do n900 with internet ...19:28
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Estel_chem|st,  could You kill this thread? -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=121029019:33
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Sicelo17:19 < Estel_> I also record fm radio on N900 <<< that's why I keep my Nokia N-Gage :P19:37
Sicelo;)19:37
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Sicelobtw, Estel_, you tried C Fm radio? seems less memory hungry19:38
chem|stEstel_: done19:43
chem|stEstel_: there is a report button, do you know about it?19:44
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DocScrutinizer(If I would enable torch, make screen to go max ...) and do 3G massive data19:55
DocScrutinizerand vibra19:55
DocScrutinizerand video decoding19:55
DocScrutinizerI can't suggest vboost as that's mutually exclusive with charging ;-P19:56
Sicelo:P20:00
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freemangordonEstel_, the guy having problems recording in HD on TMO said he has downgraded to CSSU-stable20:02
freemangordonand camera-ui is only in -testing20:03
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MrPinguCan you pull more 1200 mAh?20:04
MrPinguI mean my charger says output 1200 mAh20:05
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MrPingumerlin1991: Which other gst-packages do you have installed?20:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, may I ask you (politely) next time when you question my expertise and experience on driving SW projects to let me at least be a part of the conversation. It would be even better if you have some information on what I do for life, what is my posstion in the company I work for, etc...20:13
DocScrutinizereh?20:14
DocScrutinizerwazzup?20:14
DocScrutinizerbitter about my notion that's missing some indication of experience in risk management in your acting?20:16
freemangordonbitter? no, just think it is fair if I am included in conversation too20:17
DocScrutinizersure thing20:18
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DocScrutinizersorry if you feel I acted incorrectly20:19
freemangordonNP, lets move on. DocScrutinizer, according to those logs you somehow were able to read the logs re thumb2 on #beagle20:19
DocScrutinizeronly what you pasted20:21
freemangordonthat is all :)20:21
DocScrutinizerI supported you in claiming a proper discussion with those who think they know was the right approach20:22
DocScrutinizerthe problem is it's a niche case for them20:22
DocScrutinizerso probably way too much effort for zero ROI from their perspective20:22
freemangordonand it the end it turned out(at least that is my understanding) that they don't care/never tried hard to achieve it20:23
freemangordonyep20:23
DocScrutinizerthe real pity is all that knowledge wasted20:23
freemangordonBTW Estel_'s words for FUD spreading are not so distant from the reality AIUI20:24
DocScrutinizerwhich is a sad case that at least allows us to learn from it: never neglect documenting what you do20:25
freemangordonAs I can bet both n900s I have, that thumb errata workaround was never enabled on n900 since a month ago.20:26
freemangordonyeah, sure20:26
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freemangordonnow, AIUI you(and maybe Jaffa) insist on having a proper testbed. I will think on that, but having in mind the errata description, I don't think it is possible without speciol tools which most probably only TI has.20:29
DocScrutinizerI don't think it's particularly hard to plumb together some assembler that reliably provokes the error20:29
freemangordonBTW, did you read errata description?20:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, I think it is impossible20:30
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DocScrutinizerwhy?`20:30
freemangordonif we go into the details, I don't think I am that good in ARM assembler to be able to control BTB/BTAC contents on every cycle20:31
DocScrutinizeraah20:31
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freemangordonread the errata description again20:31
freemangordonwhat conditions are needed, so it to be triggered20:31
freemangordonwant a link?20:31
DocScrutinizersure20:31
freemangordonhttp://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/ARM_ERRATA_430973.html20:32
DocScrutinizerif ARM (and THUMB) opcode description doesn't allow to precisely smith a piece of code that invokes the error, then I'd say ARM is crap20:32
DocScrutinizer(the company)20:33
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, there is a pile of debug registers you have access to once attached to jtag ;)20:33
DocScrutinizerI know20:33
freemangordonand it is not the code itself, it is the branch prdictor which does not realize that there are new instructions on the same virtual address20:34
DocScrutinizerand just 6h ago I talked with a colleague about how to exploit the HTB in ARM for a FOSS project20:34
freemangordonHTB?20:34
DocScrutinizerHardware Treace Block or sth20:35
freemangordonaah, ok20:35
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DocScrutinizera nice IP that recors the last nn k of instructions and register data20:36
DocScrutinizerit can get read out not only via JTAG20:36
freemangordonI realy can't think of anything besides turning u-boot upside-down, hoping I am smart enough to make the correct conclusions based on short description of the errata20:36
DocScrutinizerwe're developing a AppProc based debugging tool at my company20:37
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, not entirely true, those can be rad, but only in secure priviledged mode if one of the core pins has the appropriate level on boot20:37
freemangordon*read20:37
freemangordonCP15DISABLE or something20:37
DocScrutinizerquite possible that this HS shit interferes20:38
freemangordonthat is for sure20:38
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DocScrutinizereven possible the OMAP3430 has no ETB (not HTB, E like Embedded)20:39
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freemangordonso, there are 2 options left AIUI. You may accept my logic why errata workarounds work. After all we have quantum theory based almost on pure (i) logical thinking :). BTW I am not sure i've ever tried to.20:41
freemangordons/i've/you've/20:42
infobotfreemangordon meant: so, there are 2 options left AIUI. You may accept my logic why errata workarounds work. After all we have quantum theory based almost on pure (i) logical thinking :). BTW I am not sure you've ever tried to.20:42
freemangordonthe other is to wait long enough thumb-testing to have enough users, and if there is no single sigill report for a long enough period of time (2-3 months) to assume that stable. After all we are talking about handheld device here, not a banking core server20:44
DocScrutinizerto me the explanation is pretty clear20:45
freemangordonyes, it is20:45
freemangordonand the workaround is, too20:45
DocScrutinizeryou simply run a interworking branch, then replace it by something that's *not* switching from ARM to THUMB or vice versa, and run it again -> BOOM20:46
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freemangordondo you think it is so simple?20:47
DocScrutinizeraccording to that description it is20:47
freemangordonin a multi-process environment?20:47
DocScrutinizernah20:48
DocScrutinizeryou for sure block all interrupts before you run that testbed20:48
DocScrutinizera testbed needs no X sever to output the results relatime20:50
freemangordonwell, I am not so good in omap kernel hacking (so far).  But will think If I could do something in user space.20:50
DocScrutinizerrealtime*20:50
freemangordonyeah, maybe u-boot20:50
freemangordonbut again, if we change the conditions, then the testbed is not correct20:51
freemangordonif I don't do context switchws, then the workaround is useless20:51
freemangordonif I do, then I cannot predict when I will hit it20:52
freemangordonsee20:52
freemangordoni meant "when i will hit the errara"20:53
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DocScrutinizernope, that's not how a testbed is meant to work and to prove things20:59
freemangordonwhat we are trying to prove?20:59
freemangordonerrata existance or workaround effectiveness?20:59
DocScrutinizerthe fact that opcode sequence A, B ,20:59
DocScrutinizerC d20:59
DocScrutinizerbreaks on C without your fix21:00
freemangordonas workaround is meant to fix things in multi-process environment21:00
DocScrutinizerand runs with your fix21:00
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, ok, I will try to do some user-mode stuff which provoces it21:01
freemangordon*provokes21:01
DocScrutinizergood21:01
DocScrutinizer:-D21:01
freemangordonbut can't promise anything, so you think on your side what will be the next best option :P21:02
freemangordonas it is more than obvious that the only(accesible) expertise left on that matter is here21:03
DocScrutinizeralas this seems right21:05
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: we seen modest segfaulting like mad when compiled for THUMB, no?21:06
freemangordonyes21:06
freemangordonevery minute or so21:06
DocScrutinizermaybe it's possible to reduce modest code to the bare minimum needed for triggering that degfault21:06
DocScrutinizermaybe even running it under gdb and watch it segfault21:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, it is not the modest itself, every application behaves like that. ANd it is not only htumb-compiled, arm binaries SIGILL too21:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, it is not SEGFAULT, write it down somewhere for further reference :P21:08
freemangordonit is SIGILL21:08
freemangordonI've seen that a lots of times for the last months21:08
DocScrutinizerI'm just saying somewhere inside modest there hast to be that core A,B,C.D opcode sequence that proves your patch effective21:08
DocScrutinizersure sure sigill21:09
freemangordonCPU tries to execute thumb instruction (i.e. PC%4 !=0) in ARM mode and sigills21:09
freemangordonbut it is not a specific instruction sequence that bugs the core, it is some random memory mammping21:10
freemangordon*mapping21:10
DocScrutinizererr, then modest wouldn't run even with your patch?21:11
freemangordonit will, as branch predictor "stale data" is flushed after the context is switched to "modest" and before the control is returned to user space. So on the next branch CPU will read the code and will behave as it should, instead of relying on what BP thinks21:12
freemangordonBTW patch is from TI, not mine21:13
freemangordonMY part is actually enabling it by calling the secure monitor21:14
DocScrutinizereven the better - then we only need to show your part actually enables the patch21:15
freemangordonoooh, that is easy :D21:15
DocScrutinizeras I'm absolutely sure TI tested the patch for effectiveness21:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, why you don't read what I wrote21:15
DocScrutinizererr, I do21:16
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  in this case You don't :P21:16
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer, what I did is to run u-boot and to get the contents of ACR. We need IBE bit set. It is not21:17
Estel_freemangordon said ages ago that negators are forcing himto prove that TI err5a does what it does21:17
Estel_he proved long time ago that his method to enable Ti's workaround is working21:17
Estel_and all concerns from You ( DocScrutinizer ) , dm8tbr, Jaffa etc were based on doubts that TI errata does what it promises21:18
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Estel_i.e. testbed would only be meant to prove the latter21:18
Estel_(checking if TI does what promises with errata)21:18
DocScrutinizeran erratum never promises anything, it's simply an exiasting annoyance21:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, patch code is here http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/git-commits-head/2009/5/3/5622724 , follow me and I will explain why what we have in KP does not work and how I make it work21:18
Estel_exactly21:18
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Estel_but but insisting on testbed, You wanted mechanism to prove that errata isn't fcked up itself21:19
freemangordonthe patch consist of two parts, first is setting IBE bit in ACR21:19
Estel_nevermind21:19
freemangordon+mrcp15, 0, r10, c1, c0, 1@ read aux control register21:19
freemangordon+orrr10, r10, #(1 << 6)@ set IBE to 121:19
freemangordon+mcrp15, 0, r10, c1, c0, 1@ write aux control register21:19
freemangordonsorry21:19
Estel_freemangordon is saying more interesting stuff than me, so bear with him ;)21:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, the part of the patch which sets IDE bit in ACR does not work on n90021:20
DocScrutinizer:nod:21:20
freemangordonas ACR is not accessible in unsecure priviledged mod (i.e. kernel)21:20
DocScrutinizer:nod:21:20
freemangordonsame for u-boot21:21
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Estel_...in meantime, I got question about program (well, just set of interconnected scripts) I'm preparing for repositories, so just tell me when You two ends and I'll ask, as I'm ashamed to break such conversation) ;)21:21
freemangordonA month or so ago I found an SMC call (that is a call that transfers the control to ROM code) which is used for setting ACR contents21:21
freemangordonAnd it is desctibed in TRM by the way21:22
freemangordon*described21:22
DocScrutinizerfine, so I stae I think your patch is fine, for the scope of this erratum21:22
DocScrutinizerstate*21:22
freemangordonso I patched u-boot https://gitorious.org/~freemangordon/u-boot-shr/freemangordons-u-boot/commit/409fec178945067233629a471653361b927c05f021:23
Estel_when I told You same thing You negated it :( just joking, I was using term secure mode, which probably wasn't so clear to You ( DocScrutinizer )21:23
DocScrutinizernow we only got this rumour there are two errata and allegedly mutually exclusive. We'd need to find who invented that and if he was right or wrong21:23
freemangordonaah, that rumor, yeah21:24
Estel_afaik 2nd errata is in bin space21:24
freemangordongive me a second and I will explain (with the links)21:24
freemangordonEstel_, no21:24
Estel_and 3th errata is irrelevant if 1st errata is in place21:24
Estel_Ok, swicthing to listening mode :P21:24
freemangordonjust give me some time21:24
DocScrutinizerEstel_: a patch isn't an erratum21:24
DocScrutinizererratum=bug, patch=fix21:25
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  true, true21:25
Estel_in meantime, when freemangordon searchs, I'll ask my small question ok?21:25
Estel_first one is rather simple21:25
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, the errata which we are told is mutually exclusive (and its number is stated in logs on #beagle dm8tbr is talking about) is 68706721:25
Estel_I would like to "unleash" (in sh script) notification that stays until that line of code is done21:26
Estel_(showing processing circle)21:26
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: that is what I found about it, not Cortex-a8, but the same OMAP3 core http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/errata/IMX50CE.pdf21:26
freemangordonsearch the pdf for 68706721:27
freemangordonand read the errata description. My understanding is that someone has misread that as setting the IBE bit would lead to errata triggering, and because part of the previous workaround is setting the IBE bit, thus mutual exclusivity21:28
Estel_(i.e. re-enabling swap, and popping-up notification about it via maemo notifications, that stays until lines of code responsible for reswapping aren't finished)21:28
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, which is nonsense, as to really trigger errata 687067, one have to issue "invalidate Branch predictor by MVA"21:29
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freemangordonalong with having IBE bit enabled. But workaround for the previous errata does not issue "invalidate Branch predictor by MVA", but "Invalidate entire branch predictor array."21:33
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javispedrountrue21:34
freemangordonso errata 687067 is never triggered.21:34
javispedroit is the same thing21:34
javispedrobehind the scenes21:35
freemangordonjavispedro, those are 2 diffrent operations, check on ARM side, coprocessor c7, cache operations21:35
DocScrutinizer(My understanding is that someone...) yes21:35
javispedroI know, they have a one bit difference iirc21:35
freemangordonand it is clearly stated that errata is triggered by "invalidate by MVA"21:36
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freemangordonjavispedro: "3. An invalidate Branch predictor by MVA operation is executed"21:37
javispedrothis is not an errata21:38
javispedroit is actually intentional21:38
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DocScrutinizeranyway 687047 explains that a proper initialized to 0  "L1 System Array Debug Register 0" will "fix" the erratum, just as does IBE=021:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, we don't have acces to that21:38
freemangordon*access21:39
freemangordonjavispedro, if you have some additional documentation, please share it. What is not errata? And why is that intentional, what intention?21:39
* mva >_> freemangordon21:40
javispedro"debug"21:40
javispedrothe entire acr is for debug stuff21:41
javispedro*acr register21:41
freemangordonand how is that related?21:41
javispedroibe21:41
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javispedroyou are not supposed to use it :)21:42
freemangordonaaah, ok21:42
DocScrutinizer???21:42
freemangordon:)21:42
javispedroin any case21:42
freemangordonjavispedro, where did you get that from?21:42
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javispedrothere is a true official way to disable the branch predictor iirc21:42
DocScrutinizeryes21:42
freemangordonand btw we are talking about upstream patch, not some invention of mine21:42
freemangordonjavispedro, disable the whole BP? why should anyone want to do that?21:43
freemangordonand how is that related to workaround working/not?21:44
Estel_andp again, please provide sources of Your informations, javispedro21:44
DocScrutinizerif any possible21:44
Estel_s/andp/and21:44
* Estel_ is wondering why s/ / never works for him21:45
freemangordonyou are missing the last /21:45
DocScrutinizerbecause it's s/ / /21:45
Estel_thanks21:45
Estel_guys, again, could please someone tell me how to invoke notification, that is persisting until operation in that line of code (which it's attached to) ends?21:46
Estel_for example, sh script that re-enables swap - I would like maemo notification (yellow bar) to pop-up and stay until it proceeds21:46
javispedrofreemangordon: was thinking to check if the crashes stop21:46
Estel_saying "Re-enabling swap..."21:47
DocScrutinizerEstel_: no known method to close a notification programmatically21:47
Estel_damn, Saturn is using it on Cleven21:47
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Estel_during searching for surrounding networks21:48
Estel_it says "scanning for networks"21:48
Estel_and anomated circle is inside this yellow notification bar - this whole thing dissapear after search is complete21:48
freemangordonjavispedro: I (and not only me) am able to boot and use ubuntu 12.04 with those fixes. Without them it crashes(SIGILL) every 15-20 seconds21:48
Estel_if it take 5 seconds, it persist for 5 seconds. If it take 30, it stays 30 sec21:49
Estel_will need to ask saturn I suppose21:49
DocScrutinizer687067 is a rather unlikely_to_happen erratum21:49
Estel_2nd question, much *more*important for actual operation of my "program", so please, bear with me21:50
Estel_I want to create a script, meant to be used only once...21:50
DocScrutinizernevertheless we should fix it before moving to a system that *might* trigger it21:50
Estel_that sources config filled by user, and patches /event.d/rcS-late accordingly21:51
Estel_replacing given line with other content21:51
freemangordonjavispedro, have in mind you will need latest u-boot and KP49 or custom build KP50 with workaround for 430973 enabled, as it is disabled in KP5021:51
Estel_could anyone tell me, how such script should look like?21:51
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, again, it is never triggered21:51
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Estel_of course, initially I'm sourcing config file with values, then using those values to prepare proper lines21:51
DocScrutinizerplease discuss this with javispedro, it seems he thinks different21:52
DocScrutinizeras I'm away for dinner now - sorry21:52
javispedroI... don't, actually21:52
Estel_then, I want script (run as root) to find certain line in rcS-late, and replace it with line defined in my script21:52
javispedroif it's working, what was the problem then?21:52
freemangordonDocScrutinizer is not convinced :D21:53
javispedroyou will still see random failures in jitted code21:53
Estel_javispedro,  the thing is that many - otherwise respectable - people think that errata fix is not applicable to N90021:53
Estel_no matter what21:53
javispedrowell21:53
DocScrutinizerI am the problem, I want to know it really got *fixed* and not simply moved elsewhere, like an alignment error in data section21:53
Estel_without any reasoning, beside some FUD ;)21:53
freemangordonbtw I have to go, otherwise I risk my GF leaving :D21:53
javispedrothe errata imposes a small cycle penalty on context switch21:54
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  isn't the problem21:54
javispedros/the errata/the fix21:54
javispedrowell, _comparatively_ small21:54
freemangordonjavispedro, yes, but the point is that we have 20-40 % reduction in codesize21:54
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Estel_dm8tbr,  and some random clueless arm employee was more of a problem21:54
freemangordonand having in mind RAM size on n900...21:55
freemangordonwe could get rid of most of the swapping21:55
Estel_...it would make me happy penguing21:55
javispedrothat is the part I don't believe21:55
freemangordonwhich part?21:55
dm8tbrEstel_: stop being a jerk. I tried to help and the conversation between gordon and mru didn't go beyond chitchat.21:56
* DocScrutinizer waves21:56
Estel_I don't think 20-40% would get us out of swapping, but I belive It would reduce it21:56
Estel_s/It/it/21:56
infobotEstel_ meant: I don't think 20-40% would get us out of swapping, but I belive it would reduce it21:56
javispedrocya DocScrutinizer21:56
freemangordonbut of course21:56
freemangordonthere is no way we could run only in RAM, but still21:56
Estel_dm8tbr,  not necessary, when I discutted with You last time, You were making stupid *facedesk*s and other emoticons21:56
Estel_without any counter-reasoning21:57
freemangordon20-30 (or even more) MB of free RAM will make a difference21:57
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freemangordonBTW I got to go too, happy arguing :P21:57
Estel_and I was using same argumentd as freemangordon today, yet using less technical wording, as I'm much less experienced. Still, merit was understandable for anyone with willing other thing making laughs21:57
Estel_freemangordon, see ya21:58
dm8tbrEstel_: I do not think I need to discuss this with you. If anyone else here wants to, that's fine, but you have been hostile from the get got, so please just go put me on ignore and stop being a jerk. KTXBAI21:58
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Estel_I see no hostility on discussing, I'm just stating facts. anyway, it's no problem for me21:58
Estel_and I don't need excuses, if this was meant to be it ;)21:59
dm8tbrFOAD *plonk*21:59
Estel_lets just move forward21:59
Estel_BTW, last time You've used this face on a desk when I was talking about possible source of FUD around errata, so...21:59
Sicelo~foad21:59
infobotfoad is probably \"fuck off and die\". Considered by many to be impolite.21:59
Estel_take Your time, it's EOT for me22:00
Estel_haha22:00
Estel_Sicelo, n122:00
Sicelon1? i just didn't know that foad thingie22:00
Estel_I think he meant face on a desk, though22:00
Estel_still, it's his face, so, let him enjoying it.22:00
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Sicelooh22:01
Sicelo:D22:01
Estel_but it mixed nicely with discussion22:01
Estel_merlin1991,  ping22:01
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Sicelojust one question from me regarding this Thumb thing: say we all eventually embrace it, etc and we start using thumb-compiled stuff ... what about the stuff which can't be thus recompiled, eg bme?22:04
* Sicelo doesn't even really know what this Thumb is (besides being some property of the CPU)22:05
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Estel_theoretically, there is a speed disadvantage when running non-thumb compiled code AND errata fix applied, but, it's hardly noticeable in real life22:06
Estel_and speed gain due to less ram used by core components is much bigger advantage22:06
Estel_thumb2 is just a flag during compiling, from developer side22:06
freemangordonSicelo, it will continue to work as before "thumb era"22:07
freemangordonthere is no need to re-compile everything22:07
Estel_freemangordon,  You've lost girlfriend? haven't beed suspecting You'll return so quickly ;)22:07
freemangordonEstel_, luckily she got a phonecall, still talking :D22:08
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Estel_:D22:08
Estel_wouldn't You mind to help such a noob as me with small thing?22:08
freemangordonso actually I didn't return, nut still not left22:08
Estel_question, actually22:08
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Siceloi see.22:09
freemangordonSicelo, thumb 2 instructions are 16bit (2 bytes) while ARM are 32 bits(4 bytes)22:09
Estel_I'm finishing small package that I wqant to upload into repos. Last thing that is keeping me from it is that I would like to spare editing of rcS-late to users by hand22:09
freemangordonsed?22:09
Estel_I want to create a single-run script, that will read config file...22:09
Estel_and find line in rcS-late + replace it with thing I prepare22:10
Estel_(using variables from config)22:10
Estel_I know how to source etc22:10
Estel_just how to properly sed22:10
Estel_rcS-late (or any other existing script)22:10
Estel_I'm big noob here22:10
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Estel_so example of hyphotetical line of code would help much22:11
Estel_lets say I want to find a "foo" line in rcS-late and replace it with "bar is great"22:12
freemangordonEstel_, I am not the best one to ask re shell scripts, but AFAIK you should use sed to do a inline replacement, along with leaving your "signiture" somewhere in the script to avoid double replacements. Sorry, I think it is better to ask DocScrutinizer or merlin199122:12
Estel_ok, thanks a lot for suggestion anyway22:12
Estel_I'll try messing with seed or ask them22:12
Estel_tried that, but DocScrutinizer was too much on thumb thing and merlin1991 is absent, will try to catch them22:12
freemangordon*sed22:12
freemangordonnot seed :P22:13
* Estel_ is going to read about sed22:13
Estel_:P22:13
freemangordonyou'd better not, justr ask google22:13
freemangordon*just22:13
Sicelosed -e -i s/<original>/<new>/ <filename>22:13
freemangordon:nod:22:13
Siceloi think it's like that22:13
freemangordonwhy -e ?22:13
freemangordonabyway, bb22:14
freemangordon*anyway22:14
Estel_oh god, sed is the thing I'm using to correct lines here? I said I'm noob22:14
Estel_see ya, thanks!22:14
Siceloyeah, lol.. remove the 'e'22:14
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Siceloanyway, reading is best .. ;)22:16
Raimu:P22:16
Woody14619Estel_, technicaly, sed is based on ed, a line editor the came before vi.  (s = streem)22:16
Raimu...whoops, wrong window. Sorry.22:17
Estel_Woody14619,  nice to know22:17
Estel_hm, I've searched about it, but can't find what freemangordon meant by "kind of signature" to avoid double-replacing22:18
Woody14619Also note, that most ed commands still work in vi when in ed mode (using :)  So :s/orig/new/ works in vi as well.  (one per line, append a g to the end to have it happen multiple times per line)22:18
DocScrutinizeryeah. ed anybody?22:18
DocScrutinizer:-P22:18
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DocScrutinizerWoody14619: probably s in sed wasn't for stream but for silly22:18
DocScrutinizer;-)22:18
Sicelolulz22:19
DocScrutinizered is really a monster22:19
javispedroEstel_: you are being way overoptimistic22:19
Woody14619lol :)  Yes, ed sucks, but was a lot nicer than puch cards, which was the other option at the time.22:19
DocScrutinizeredlin and whatnot else22:19
javispedrolet's assume for a moment that thumb actually produces a 40% reduction in code size, which I don't believe22:19
Woody14619.oO(and vi doesn't work well on tele-type devices, which lack screens...)22:20
DocScrutinizerindeed22:20
javispedrouse procps to measure the text resident size of all processes in the system22:20
javispedroiirc, on a fresh booted n900 it was around 50MiB22:20
javispedronote that this is overly pessimistic as this countes shared pages twice22:20
javispedros/twice/more than once22:20
Woody14619edlin was the crappy MS nock-off of ed.  It would be like compairing the "NOKlA" brand "n900" against the one from NOKIA.... ;)22:21
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javispedroyou will save 25MiB _hard_ maximum22:21
javispedrothe real number will probably be way less than that22:21
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Estel_javispedro,  any way I could measure text resident size of processes I've enabled now?22:21
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Estel_what's the point of measuring it for fresh system22:21
javispedrouse procps, grep man for text resident size22:21
Estel_on fresh system You hardly use swap22:22
javispedrofremantle preloads, you know22:22
Estel_problem is when You use qt things22:22
Estel_yes.22:22
DocScrutinizerand on system with huge uptime, memory gets used by data, not progamtext22:22
javispedroa fresh system here has already a bunch of all the most used apps22:22
Estel_but printfood for not-preloaded things, yet thumb compiled, will drop to, yes?22:22
Estel_s/to/too22:23
javispedro"yes"22:23
DocScrutinizerthe size of code stays the same22:23
Estel_s/to/too/22:23
infobotEstel_ meant: s/too/too22:23
DocScrutinizerhaha22:23
Woody14619:)22:23
Estel_I mean that, during usage of memory-heavy things, we main gain more22:23
Estel_:)22:23
DocScrutinizerno22:23
DocScrutinizermemory heavy things are heavy on data, not on code22:24
Estel_byw 25 MB would be more than 10% ;)22:24
Estel_true22:24
DocScrutinizerbtw code never gets swapped out22:24
Estel_(in fact it depends, but generally true)22:24
javispedroDocScrutinizer was missing a "to swap" there.22:24
Estel_so it's even more important to have it with reduced size ;)22:24
DocScrutinizeruseless to swap out code, as it's already on 'disk'22:25
javispedroaka code never gets swapped out to swap :)22:25
Estel_all after all we get more ram available for data that don't need to be swapped out22:25
* DocScrutinizer waves again22:25
Estel_considering ramzswap was a way to gain a little ram at cost of CPU22:25
Estel_cycles22:26
javispedroEstel_: as said, this is assuming 40% code reduction (which I don't believe), and 0% loss in performance (which I don't believe either)22:26
Estel_and now we can gain a little ram without any cost (almost)22:26
Estel_I think it's worrth effort22:26
javispedrowell22:26
javispedroit's an effort.22:26
Estel_everything is :)22:26
javispedrofor the interesting programs, it will for sure not be as simple as toggling -mthumb22:27
Estel_cdreating HD video recording for N900 was an huge effort too, and I enjoy it very much22:27
javispedrothink inline asm, etc.22:27
Estel_hm.22:27
Estel_last two lines should be forwarded to freemangordon, I've no idea, frankly22:27
javispedroalso, I don't remember if interworking is enabled =)22:27
Estel_would be interested in his comment about it22:27
Estel_btw I mean that even "wasting" cpu cycles for compression using ramzswap is a win, most of the times, on system with low ram22:28
Woody14619javispedro, I believe the 40%... The stats on that are pretty firm.  But it's not a huge ammount.  Still, if it's available, even getting back 15-20Mb would make a difference for some people, usage dependant.22:28
Estel_so such "almost" free ram gain is a real deal22:28
javispedroWoody14619: 40% would mean that ~40% of the code doesn't need the extra upper arm registers22:29
javispedrostill possible and quite certain for some programs, but I have my doubts if that will be the case for "everything"22:29
Estel_only one way to check that22:30
Estel_for sure22:30
Estel_actually trying :)22:30
javispedrofeel free22:30
Estel_cssu devel sounds great place for that22:31
Estel_s/sounds/seems like/22:31
infobotEstel_ meant: cssu devel seems like great place for that22:31
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Woody14619Which is believable, and even testable.  I'm betting it compiles a little differntly, but most would compile fine.  It is an effort, yes.  But if there's a working patch for the issue, it may be worth it for some.22:33
Estel_as for sed22:34
Estel_ok, but how will it allow me to replace multi-line things in config?22:34
Estel_s/config/file/22:34
infobotEstel_ meant: ok, but how will it allow me to replace multi-line things in file?22:34
Estel_lets say I want my script to replace 2-liner in rcS-late with 7-liner22:35
Estel_Sicelo, DocScrutinizer, Woody14619?22:35
Sicelothat's for the greats :P22:36
Siceloi think you will use a bunch of \n though22:36
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Estel_probably right22:37
Woody14619yup yup.  Or, if you're feeling really self-damaging, look at awk. :)22:41
Woody14619work becons22:41
Estel_hm, smth bad22:45
Estel_sed s/original\n3liner\ncontent/new\n2linder/22:45
Estel_doesnt work22:45
Estel_it should replace 3 lines22:46
Estel_"original 3liner content"22:46
Estel_with 2 lines "new 2linder" (typo, should be liner, but whatever)22:46
Estel_any ideas?22:46
Sicelo~jrtools22:47
infobotmethinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools22:47
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NIN101I am no sed pro according  to my experience multilne replacements with sed are PITA.22:47
Estel_it says "unmatched "/"22:47
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Estel_agree. what's better alternative?22:48
Estel_(unmatched "/" probably mean it wasn't able to find matching original content due to \n's inside)22:48
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Siceloyou used the "?22:49
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Estel_?22:51
Estel_could You elaborate more?22:51
Sicelolook..i'm worse than even NIN101 on this :P22:52
Siceloi was just asking if you remembered to use the quote marks in appropriate places .. sed -i "s/.../.../"22:53
Estel_of course forget about it, thanks a lot22:54
Estel_will try now22:54
Estel_btw request here22:55
Estel_does anyone have unmodified rcS-late?22:55
Estel_could You please paste it to zerobin or any pastebin?22:55
Sicelolol..me doesn't even know where that stays :P22:58
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Estel_now sed is working for me and I can replace one linders properly23:00
Estel_yet, no way of using \n allows me to replace multi-liners23:01
Estel_i've tried:23:01
Estel_line1\nline223:01
Estel_line1 \nline223:01
Estel_line1\n line223:01
Estel_line1 \n line223:01
Estel_...al to no avail23:01
Estel_s/al/all/23:02
infobotEstel_ meant: ...all to no avail23:02
Estel_any ideas, anyone? Woody14619?23:02
Sicelowhere's this rsS-late23:02
Estel_/etc/event.d/rcS-late23:02
* Sicelo is lazy to do a find23:02
Estel_critical file during booting23:02
Estel_file isn't problem here I'm testing it with test file23:02
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Estel_problem is with replacing multi liners with multiliners23:03
Sicelooh, i thought you wanted it pasted? :\23:03
Estel_ah sorry23:03
Estel_of course23:03
Estel_forget, but still need it23:03
Estel_:P23:03
Estel_I could invoke sed multiple times, but it still doesn't allow me to change number of lines to greater23:04
Estel_(I could replace 7 lines with less, for example, 5, by replacing unnecesary lines with spaces...)23:05
Sicelohttp://paste.debian.net/170489/23:05
Estel_(but can't change 5 lines to 7)23:05
Estel_thanks a lot23:05
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Estel_so now only sed problem remains23:06
NIN101Estel_23:06
NIN101system-services23:07
NIN101this package contains /etc/event.d/rcS-late23:07
Estel_thanks.23:07
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Estel_anyway, problem with correct way for multi-lines replacing with arbitrary lines number still persist23:08
Estel_I want to replace 1 line with multiliner :/23:08
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  ping23:09
Sicelohttp://www.refining-linux.org/archives/27/20-Multi-line-sed-search-and-replace/23:10
Estel_oh23:10
Estel_thanks!23:10
* Estel_ is going to read23:10
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DocScrutinizerEstel_: use diff / patch23:12
* DocScrutinizer away again, cursing his own life23:12
Estel_thanks...23:12
* Sicelo gets ready for bed23:13
Sicelothis channel rocks.. 98% of my linux knowledge comes from here :P23:14
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GNUtoo-desktopDocScrutinizer, hi I didn't understand the errata either, does it fix the issues like when you switch from arm to thumb and it illegal instructions because of that?23:24
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DocScrutinizer51it seems the branch prediction queue isn't getting properly cleaned in some cases when using a opcode (bx?) that is switching instruction set23:26
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GNUtoo-desktopok I understand that(branch prediction)23:27
GNUtoo-desktopit's fixed in 3.4?23:27
GNUtoo-desktopbecause we have firefox that illegal instructions on SHR23:27
GNUtoo-desktopand it's related to arm->thumb interworking switch23:28
DocScrutinizer51it's fixed in more recent chips23:28
GNUtoo-desktopok23:28
GNUtoo-desktopis it fixed in the gta04 chip?23:28
DocScrutinizer51not on n900 omap soc though23:28
DocScrutinizer51dunno, probably23:28
GNUtoo-desktopok23:29
GNUtoo-desktopthanks23:29
DocScrutinizer51check revision23:29
DocScrutinizer51ask nikolaus23:29
DocScrutinizer51r0p1 ?23:33
DocScrutinizer51til r2pq ?23:33
DocScrutinizer51it's in one of the links freemangordon posted23:34
Estel_ping Hurrian23:34
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: there are lesser-effort approaches to safe 15, 20 Mb of memory23:35
Estel_like?23:35
Estel_DocScrutinizer, ^^^23:38
DocScrutinizer51forex look into all the preloaded stuff. Look at that 25MB file containing ALL translations23:39
Estel_it's nice, we can mix it up with thumb2 and get 30-40 Mb of memory :)23:39
Estel_but it's data, not code, yep?23:40
DocScrutinizer51htop is your ftiend, and your common sense your shrpest weapon23:40
Estel_unused translation must be amongst few things that get swapped out23:40
Estel_common sense tells me that it's not mutualy exclusive with thumb223:40
Estel_btw, question23:40
DocScrutinizer51WUT? you won't gain 2023:41
DocScrutinizer51ooh, all together23:41
Estel_swapon -a in rcS-late, it enables swap23:41
Estel_how does it know where it is?23:41
Estel_searches automatialy emmc?23:41
Estel_and enable first found swap?23:41
DocScrutinizer51look at autogenerated fstab23:42
Estel_i.e. checks all mmcblk0p* and enable first found swap, or have it hardcoded?23:42
Estel_I see23:42
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Estel_emr, so my guess that if user have swap on /dev/mmcblk0p758, swapon -a will also enable it23:43
Estel_?23:43
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Estel_no requiment for it to be on /dev/mmcblk0p3?23:43
jacekowskiwell kinda23:44
jacekowskiit would have to be in fstab23:44
jacekowskiand fstab is regenerated quite often23:44
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Estel_jacekowski,  for my use case it's invoked from rcS-late, so it's during boot23:54
Estel_no chances for missing fstab generation ;)23:54
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  dumbie question again... while working with sed, how to distinguish "/" being part of line to be parsed, from "/" being part of sed command?23:57
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Estel_i.e. sed -i "s/home/user/newhome/newuser/"23:58
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DocScrutinizer51use arbitrary other delimiyer23:58
Estel_use what?!23:58
DocScrutinizer51like @23:58
Estel_erm, any examples? I fail to get it23:59
DocScrutinizer51s@foo/bar@fsck@23:59
Estel_oh23:59
Estel_and sed is bright enough to know what is delimiyer and what not23:59
Estel_well, You've made it so simple :)23:59
DocScrutinizer51yep23:59
Estel_thanks a lot...23:59

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