IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-06-20

MohammadAGno need, there are pocket amps, was just wondering if the N900 would be enough instead of carrying one extra piece of HW :p00:01
DocScrutinizer:nod:00:01
DocScrutinizeranyway your pocket amp rarely supports sox 8-)00:02
* DocScrutinizer tinks sox >> a suitcase full of effect boxes00:03
DocScrutinizerbut then again the latency... oh well00:03
DocScrutinizeryou're back to cubase ;-P00:04
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, just saw your post saying the battery applet wouldn't work if we removed BME and implemented stuff in kernel space, https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery :P00:22
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DocScrutinizerhmm00:22
DocScrutinizerso what?00:22
DocScrutinizerI don't think I said exactly that00:23
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DocScrutinizerit's not about reimplementing a bat applet that ships around broken hal and reads bat status directly from gauge. It's more about reinplementing hald-addon-bme to put the rest of system back to mormal operation00:25
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DocScrutinizerbreaking hal will break an unknown but huge number of apps in turn00:26
DocScrutinizerso main prerequisite to replace bme is to get a replacement for hal-addon-bme, not to code a new battery applet that can work without hal00:27
DocScrutinizerdon't get me wrong, a working bat applet is a nice thing, for e.g. hostmode. But its purpose to keep system architecture intact is rather limited00:29
DocScrutinizerI heard meego has libbme now, which should give quite some clues about how to re-implement for bme replacement all the interfaces that used to talk to bme00:31
DocScrutinizerprobably hal-addon-bme not found there, as meego might have nuked hal, sth we can't reasonably do for maemo00:32
DocScrutinizerwhich is the whole crux00:33
DocScrutinizeryou are better off to rewrite hal-addon-bme so it talks to gauge directly rather than to bme. Rather than reimplementing all the bits that rely on hal for battery monitoring00:35
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DocScrutinizerby following the applet replacement path you end with a system that *looks* like maemo but is completely incompatible in the end00:36
DocScrutinizerwe could as well switch to meego then00:37
DocScrutinizerin fact a meego battery-eye would work better on that suggested bme-free architecture than the maemo app of same name00:39
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cityLightshi00:48
DocScrutinizerstskeeps already had written a hald-addon-bme replacement for mer. He might give some hints if he doesn't decide to be a grinch00:48
cityLightscan I format my micro sd to ubifs?00:48
cityLightswould it be better then ext3?00:49
SpeedEvilubifs is designed for raw flash devices.00:49
SpeedEvilThe microSD is not a raw flash device.00:49
SpeedEvilIt's got a little CPU in it that pretends it's a block device.00:49
cityLightsso ext3 is my best option?00:49
DocScrutinizeractually the microSD *might* already use ubifs internally ;-)00:50
SpeedEvilDunno - just that ubnifs is not an option at all00:50
cityLightso ok00:50
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thopiekarhi .. i've noticed that facebook as a chat account is missing now.. how can i get it back?00:58
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thopiekarbtw. got the cssu installed..01:00
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user0Hello #maemo01:00
Juozapashow to .mov file in maemo?01:02
Juozapasplay*01:03
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Hurrianjuozapas: kmplayer01:10
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JuozapasHurrian: thx, i will try01:16
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Hurrianso apparently, epitaph is still begging for donations for his "tune-up" script\01:17
Hurrianeh...01:18
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Hurriananyone notice that the added a few words to the description in the signature?01:19
Hurrian"Nokia N900 Smartphone Performance Efficient Enhance Optimization Tune-Up Utilities" -- sure looks like SEO01:20
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MohammadAGi love people who base their work on others' stuff and ask for donations01:21
Hurrianlibgiomm-2.4.so.1.2.0 an other lib*.so01:21
HurrianOH SHIT NIGGA WHAT ARE YOU DOING01:21
Hurrianthey're all *.sh scripts, what the hell is it doing depending on GNOME libraries?01:22
Hurrian4.0M./opt/n900-tune-up/coreutils-gnu_8.4-2maemo1_armel.deb01:22
DocScrutinizertf?01:22
DocScrutinizerwtf ?!even01:22
Hurrianit installs coreutils. wtf?01:22
MohammadAGpaste the scripts I guess01:23
* DocScrutinizer digs for his tmo trolls basher hat01:23
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Hurrian4.0K./usr/sbin/gainroot01:25
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Hurriandohoho01:25
DocScrutinizerwasn't that the guy who 'invented' mv and ln, or sth along that line and level knowledge?01:25
DocScrutinizersth like ""chmod +x, secret sauce pro tip""01:26
Hurrianpersonally, i find it embarrasing to stomp over package maintainer scripts as seen in tune-up01:26
Hurrianhe should've learned regular expressions01:26
Hurrianhe's already ripping off code, should'nt be too hard for him to rip Transitions Control01:27
DocScrutinizerhuh?01:27
Hurrianripping community code and scripts, repackaging as his own01:28
Hurrianalso: >I want 5 EUR and you can pay with Paypal.01:28
Hurrian>5 EUR01:28
DocScrutinizernow he's going too far01:28
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Hurrianwithout that, its technically nagware01:28
DocScrutinizerrepackaging things as your won, and then asking for money, that's clearly a ban and bashing01:29
DocScrutinizergot a pointer to the stolen stuff?01:29
DocScrutinizerplus to original?01:30
DocScrutinizerI feel temped to do sth about it01:30
Hurrianusr/lib/libmlockall -> mlocker (it's in HIS SIG!)01:31
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Hurrian8.0K./usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/syspart.conf => http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7111501:31
Hurriani'm yet to examine the other scripts01:32
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JuozapasHurrian: kmplayer doesn't play mov also01:44
Hurriankden, use handbrake to convert01:45
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DocScrutinizerit seems texrat is already at it, regarding this "optimizer"02:27
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: you mean the web one - or have I come in partway through02:28
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DocScrutinizernah, this luser that claims to optimize your N900 beyond awesomeness, as he learned about how to use busybox cli commands02:29
DocScrutinizerepitaph02:30
DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1032281&postcount=34302:30
SpeedEvilah02:30
DocScrutinizer>>Epitaph, your claims to be a victim ring hollow. I'm not sure what your goal is with this "application" (and I use the term loosely) but it doesn't seem in any way honorable.<<02:30
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DocScrutinizerperiod02:31
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nusseyoure stolen 1h of my time by making me read this crappy thread, thank you02:35
nusses,youre,youve02:35
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DocScrutinizersorry, but same here :-)02:47
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DocScrutinizerthough I had to go thru the nice thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71115 to finally end up at epitaph's BS02:56
DocScrutinizerbut maybe it's been targeted at Hurrian ? ;-D02:57
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if it's maybe time to publish a few .deb in tmo, that do *real* stuff, real nasty stuff ;-)03:00
DocScrutinizernagware with a 25min sleep, LAAAAME03:01
HurrianDocScrutinizer: how is it targeted at me?03:01
DocScrutinizeryou came up with this dude epitaph :-)03:02
Hurrianah03:02
Hurrianwell, epitaph's been bitching hard in the kernel-bfs thread about cgroups too.03:02
DocScrutinizerooh03:03
DocScrutinizerabill_uk's son?03:03
Hurriannah03:04
Hurrianabill_uk never contributed anything useful03:04
* DocScrutinizer ponders to publish a cracker .deb to rip out the nagware part of epitaph's "optimizer" X-P03:04
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: what's epitaph's useful contribution?03:05
Hurrianhis older posts were less... clueless and inflammatory03:05
* Hurrian ponders to publish a Super Tools DEB - 300MB, and all it does is increment every osso- app by 999 versions03:06
DocScrutinizerI think his very first posts were along the line of "secret sauce tip: use chmod +x to make your scripts start without <whatvere nonsense>"03:06
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DocScrutinizerand iirc even that had ome bug in it03:08
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Hurrianhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1032329#post103232903:08
Hurrianfor the 9000'th time03:08
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DocScrutinizernah, you won't trap me again ;-D03:08
DocScrutinizernuf of tmo for today03:09
Hurrianso many people are clamoring for nitdroid D:03:10
DocScrutinizertmo is like salt, or arsenic: you mustn't take too much of it a day03:10
Hurrianit's more like arsenic, that place is TOXIC03:11
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DocScrutinizerpoor fools, didn't they see they'd get a better droid phone when buying a device that's made for and shipped with genuine andridiot?03:11
DocScrutinizer~tmo03:12
infobothmm... tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo03:12
Hurrianactually, s/Maemo/iOS/g s/N900/iPhone 4/g s/N810/iPod Touch/g the past 2 years and it looks EXACTLY like "the other forums"03:12
DocScrutinizerI liked the former def better03:13
DocScrutinizerwhich was like "trolls, morons, <forgot>"03:13
Hurrianwhatever happened to the community being solely focused on maemo+device?03:14
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DocScrutinizerdunno, many gave up on the trolls flooding the place03:14
Hurrianthe newer members seem to be... a lot more "enthusiastic" for the HEs on the N90003:14
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SpeedEvilHE?03:15
DocScrutinizerhacker editions? which would imply a lot of those lusers consider themselves to be hackers03:16
Hurrianhacker editions for the older devices, Community Editions/Developer Editons for the N90003:16
DocScrutinizera scary idea03:16
Hurriansuch as MeeGo and Android03:16
Hurrianhopefully the same users wont get too bitchy over Cordia+MeeGo03:16
DocScrutinizerwho cares about meego, really?03:17
Hurrian...OMG UNOFFICIAL OPEN SOFTWARE DEVELOPED ON WONKY CLOSED SOURCE SOFTWARE HAS A SHITLOAD OF BUGS03:17
DocScrutinizerI actually can't see any benefit from meego-arm for the average user, neither instanly nor long term03:17
HurrianDoc: there won't be any benefit from running MeeGo as long as it's /that/ slow on the N90003:18
DocScrutinizerit won't, nah CAN NOT get faster than maemo is03:19
DocScrutinizerso where's the benefit, again?03:19
DocScrutinizermeego been meant to kick off the future generation of linux devices from Nokia. Evidently there's no such thing like a future linux phone series03:20
Hurrianworking vsync (works by wsegl flag though...), btrfs root (a lot faster than ext4 root on the N900) and 2.6.37 (hey, it's a newer kernel! we03:21
Hurrian*we're no longer restricted to the ancient 2.6.2803:21
DocScrutinizerthe whole purpose of meego-arm is a mere self-preservation and continuing useless work to not have to face it's useless03:21
HurrianDoc: and MeeGo seems to be preinstalled mostly on x86 tablets.03:22
NIN101I find this kubuntu stuff very interesting. They are targeting now telephony functions for 11.10. Definitly will keep an eye on that, however, I think they will "steel" most stuff from meego, but anyway.03:22
DocScrutinizercouldn't care less, really03:22
DocScrutinizerI can't think of a single itsy bit that meego would allow me to do on N900, which I can't do today03:23
DocScrutinizerau contraire03:23
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NIN101I can not understand why meego it's so much ram.03:24
DocScrutinizerit absolutely academic03:24
NIN101*eats03:24
nox-NIN101, bloat?03:24
HurrianNIN101: because of MeeGo Handset UX03:24
DocScrutinizerqt-err-foo03:24
NIN101yes of course, but damn...03:24
DocScrutinizerthis js-fake thing03:25
NIN101QML?03:25
nox-ooh03:25
DocScrutinizeryep03:25
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nox-:/03:25
DocScrutinizeronce again: designed and tailored for laptops, not for embedded03:25
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Hurrianhonestly, if anyone wanted a big system upgrade, it would be a rebuilt meego-adaptation-n900 system03:28
Hurriannone of that RPM nonsense03:28
HurrianDEB packaging, hildon desktop+matchbox03:28
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rm_youi still don't understand the switch to RPM03:30
DocScrutinizerI'm quite ignorant about the packaging. Ideally I never touch it anyway, so who gives a f* if it's *.deb or *.rpm?03:30
rm_youit's like driving a BMW for a few years and then deciding "yeah, that's all nice and good, but i'd much rather be driving a ford focus"03:30
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DocScrutinizerpff03:30
rm_youthen again people's decisions never really make sense03:31
SpeedEvilOnly insane wack-jobs care about package management format.03:31
DocScrutinizerI simply say you ideally don't even know what's your package management called03:31
SpeedEvilIt's fundamentally not an important part of the OS.03:31
rm_youi'm just wondering "why bother switching to something worse"?03:31
Hurrianspeedevil: you mean package signing and verification aren't important?03:32
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: +++03:32
rm_youwaste a bunch of resources and investment on a non-improvement03:32
Hurrianit's a large reason of why i stopped using arch03:32
SpeedEvilHurrian: In some cases, no.03:32
NIN101it's THE reason why I don't use arch03:32
SpeedEvilSigning is rather unimpiortant if you get your packages over https - for example03:32
NIN101yes, but what I hack the server?03:33
DocScrutinizeryeah, and BMW is using shock absorbers that are painted blue, that's why I never ride a BMW03:33
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HtheByo03:34
HtheBsup03:34
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DocScrutinizerletting aside signing is a part of RPM as well, why would you care? is it *you* to worry about how _maintainers_ get their shit together?03:34
HtheBdoes anyone use NITDroid on eMMC?03:35
DocScrutinizer*BURP*03:35
HurrianHtheB, i used to, but NITDroid burns my hand.03:35
HtheBwhy?03:35
DocScrutinizeryeah, a good question :-P03:36
HtheBdid you use N12?03:36
DocScrutinizerasked best in #nitdroid03:36
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HtheB(everybody on #nitdroid is sleeping, so... dont blame me :P)03:36
Hurrianit seems to be working on some high frequency all the time and on stock voltage03:36
HtheBHurrian: not on the latest versions03:36
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DocScrutinizerthose fools even OC by default03:36
HtheBbut somehow, when I install the kernel, I cant boot up any OS anymore03:36
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HtheBI always end up with flashing the N90003:37
HtheBDocScrutinizer: no, you CAN oc it, it isn't on by default03:37
DocScrutinizerwell, now you know why there's that part in /topic03:37
DocScrutinizeruhuh03:37
DocScrutinizerbeen told differently03:38
HtheB:D ahah03:38
HtheBneh, the problem is that my old phone didnt had such problem03:38
HurrianHtheB: read /topic, follow directions03:38
HtheBI got a new one03:38
HtheBmaybe new hardware rev?03:38
DocScrutinizerno03:38
HtheB(later version? )03:38
DocScrutinizerno03:38
HtheBcan you also say "yes"?03:39
DocScrutinizerno03:39
HtheB:D heh03:39
HtheBstupid kernel panics03:40
DocScrutinizerhonestly it's somehow annoying when you get roughly equal amounts of users hyping here how awesome alternative OS XY, and others whining here how much it sucks and breaks the device. And both completely unrelated to maemo03:41
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HtheByeah03:42
HtheBI know03:42
HtheBthough I dont wine about sucking or something like that xD03:43
HtheBI just wanted to ask if someone has any experience about the latest kernels03:43
HtheBsince somehow it didnt work on my (new) N90003:43
HtheBmine broke some time ago, brought it to nokia03:43
HtheBthey sent me a phone back.....03:44
HtheBGuess which one .... -_-03:44
NIN101E703:44
HtheBno03:44
HtheBN8 ¬¬03:44
HtheBI went mad03:44
nox-ewww03:44
NIN101Mine is in repair somewhere, I hope it does not happen to me :/03:45
HtheBtold them that IF they were going to replace my phone, that I want the E703:45
HtheBafter some arguing, they accepted it03:45
HtheBthey will send me an E703:45
HtheBthough, I'm going to sell it :P Since I already bought a NEW N900 in the shop where I work03:45
HtheBWe still have a couple of them left03:45
NIN101If I get something different than N900, I'm going to sell it and buy a new one.03:45
HtheB(bought it for €255)03:45
HtheBNIN101: im sure u will get a different phone03:46
HtheBwhat was broken?03:46
HtheBthe USB?03:46
NIN101yep03:46
HtheBu get a different device...03:46
HtheB100%03:46
DocScrutinizerseems Nokia redefined N900 as broken-by-design and is basically doing a global swap03:47
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HtheByeah03:47
HtheBwhy does the usb broke any way?03:48
DocScrutinizera pity, for sure also thanks to OCers03:48
HurrianDoc: unsurprising, they evidently barely spent any money on hardware quality control03:48
DocScrutinizerBS03:48
HtheBI didnt see any other device where the USB broke off o_O03:48
DocScrutinizerwell, that's a design flaw03:49
HtheBisnt it just the same?03:49
HtheBi mean, just put some more iron on it lol03:49
HtheBso it will stick for a  longer time :P03:49
DocScrutinizerprobably paired with MP issues causing some components not 100% correctly soldered03:49
Hurriannot iron, lead+silver03:49
HtheBhmmm03:50
HtheBI think I might even buy a new N900 :(03:50
HtheBJust in case something happens to my N900 now03:50
HtheBI dont want to have it swapped again :(03:50
DocScrutinizerI think I might try to find the money to get me another 1 or 2 spare03:50
HurrianHtheB, can't you just have it repaired?03:50
HtheBHurrian: they wont03:50
Hurrianor before it breaks, fix the dry joint03:51
Hurrianyourself03:51
HtheBThat could be an option03:51
DocScrutinizera reasonable suggestion03:51
nox-thats too bad, i like the n900...03:51
Hurriandesolder, resolder with 100% lead, solder to ground plane03:51
Hurrianin fact, why not replace with with a microusb-AB port and fix it03:51
HtheBthough, if I can buy a NEW N900 for €255, and get a swap for E7 (new price €600), then... I can sell the E7 for like €45003:52
rm_youDocScrutinizer: sorry, disappeared for a sec, but YES it matters to me, as I *am* a package maintainer03:52
nox-(and am not about to solder that delicate parts... :)03:52
rm_youI am (or was) a Maemo/Meego Developer03:52
HtheBwhich means I can make some profit :p03:52
rm_younot just some user03:52
HtheBand buy a new n900 lol03:52
rm_youand having experience with both Deb and RPM, I can confidently tell you my opinion all day long about which one is superior >_> but it'd be a waste of breath03:53
rm_youor, a waste of finger movement, in this case03:53
HtheBHurrian: you mean the on like on the N8?03:53
Hurrianyes.03:53
Hurrianinstead of using a female-female adapter, you just have to use the Nokia OTG cable03:54
Hurriansaves a bit of spage03:54
Hurrian*space03:54
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Hurrianthen i guess you'll just have to use a tiny dremel head to carve the rectangle in the N900's shell03:55
HtheBhmm03:55
loft306heh03:56
HtheBwell, since my n900 is still intact, lets have it this way :P03:57
Hurrianon a side note, i'm working on a way to have the entire thing white03:58
HtheBwhite?03:58
Hurriana white N900.03:58
HtheBnice :D03:58
Hurrianwhich leaves the problem, i'll need to somehow paint the digitizer03:58
HtheBwell, if you leave it black, it will be like the Samsung Galaxy S03:58
* Hurrian thinks decals03:58
HtheBsometimes white sux,03:59
* HtheB pukes when he thinks about the icrap 4 white03:59
HurrianHtheB: the white iP4 is actually thicker, due to the UV penentrating the phone03:59
Hurriani lol'd03:59
HtheByeah04:00
DocScrutinizerHurrian: HtheB: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post54799104:00
HtheBDocScrutinizer:  :D04:00
HtheBExactly what I mean :D04:00
DocScrutinizernox-: ^^^04:00
HtheBif they just do it like that at the Nokia repair center.... they would survive the usb connector breaking thing04:01
HurrianHtheB: it's not in the service manual, they probably wont do it04:01
HtheBlol04:01
rm_youlcuk: lol you found me04:01
HtheBDocScrutinizer: I lol'd about this: Advice . protect camera lens when solder04:01
HtheBI think he pwnd his own camera lens04:02
Hurrianyou're actually supposed to remove the camera when working on the board04:02
DocScrutinizerno, never heard about that04:04
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Hurriandocscrutinizer, lv1+2 service manuals04:05
DocScrutinizerand it's indeed a good idea to think of soldering on those small devices like an operation and cover the complete irrelevant area with some protective material04:06
Hurrianhowever, us mere mortals don't have the camera removal tool04:06
DocScrutinizeryep04:06
nox-:/04:06
DocScrutinizerI never seen they recommend to always remove the cam module though04:06
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Hurriangiven the proximity, it'd probably be best to remove it04:07
DocScrutinizeriirc it's just mentioned as one step of a complete disassembly of the device, which doesn't mean you always need to do it04:07
HtheBwhy do u need to remove the camera completely?04:08
HtheBwill it burn?04:08
DocScrutinizer:shrug:04:08
* DocScrutinizer wouldn't04:08
ketasburn it04:08
DocScrutinizerI'd do it when using hot air gun though04:08
DocScrutinizeror IR preheating04:09
DocScrutinizerfor fixing USB I definitely would want to save the connector from a mating cycle04:09
DocScrutinizerjust covering the lens seems enough04:10
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HtheBanyone did the battery mod?04:18
HtheBaccourding to the website, they already sold 340 batteries04:21
HtheBso around 170 people are doing the mod :P04:22
SpeedEvil There are reportedly cells that fit in the n900 and get 1600mAh04:22
SpeedEvilAs in I know someone that's measured the capacity04:22
HtheBwhich batt?04:23
SpeedEvilI forget the details04:23
HtheBsomeone is doing some tests, and the best that he found (yet) was 151004:23
SpeedEvilWill ask tomorrow04:23
HtheBhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6556804:23
SpeedEvilI think it was from that thread - friend ordered - and got one that gives 1590 on the first couple of cycles04:24
HtheBhmmm04:24
DocScrutinizer3 cheers for tmo awesomeness to drop pictures as they are only external links and prone to vanish with original URL going down04:25
DocScrutinizer:-(((04:25
HtheBhttp://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-Battery-BL-5J-BL5J-Nokia-5800-5230-N900-X6-GIF-/170545202999?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item27b549473704:26
HtheBlol04:26
HtheB1820mah my ass04:27
HtheBHurrian: http://www.ofroj.com/wp-content/uploads/classipress/for-sellnokia-n97-32-785399444.png04:28
HtheBHurrian: also this http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/199/845/700/rfld.jpg04:29
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HtheBWhite n90004:32
HtheBor how about a GOLD n900? http://cgi.ebay.com/Nokia-N900-N-900-Housing-Case-Cover-Stylus-Gold-/170629661144?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item27ba5201d804:34
Hurrianwhy not make it out of real gold?04:35
HtheB. . . .04:36
HtheBif I was rich :(04:36
DocScrutinizerpoor antenna performance - but oh well, those who want to cary a N900 made of gold probably never need to actually use it04:37
SpeedEvilGold is also heavy04:38
SpeedEvilCarbon fibre would at least have some virtues.04:38
SpeedEvilcould probably knock 10 grams off the weight04:38
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter, a pakistany gets paid for sole purpose to carry it the whole day ;-P04:38
HtheBlol04:39
HtheBnokia is going to make use of a new material04:39
HtheBthe one they found a couple years ago04:39
DocScrutinizerhave you ever heard somebody complaining about weight of his Rolex, or about it not being accurate ;-D04:39
HtheBlol04:40
DocScrutinizerit probably wouldn't matter if it doesn't run at all04:40
HtheBNokia will use Graphene04:41
HtheBhttp://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/14/graphene-nokias-future-super-material/04:41
DocScrutinizeromfg04:41
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HtheBWhile being thin, it’s the strongest material ever tested, having a breaking strength 300 times greater than steel and is also the lightest material ever, best intrinsic conductor and super-flexible, too.04:42
HtheBGraphene was found by a dutch guy who won a nobel prize for finding this out04:42
HtheB(inventing it)04:43
HtheBhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-gTobCJHs#at=1804:43
HtheBinteresting demo video04:43
SpeedEvilAmorphous metal casings are actually plausible04:44
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SpeedEvil'metallic glass'04:44
SpeedEvilA new process has been worked out where you melt the metallic glass with a massive pulse of electricity, then form it in a few milliseconds04:45
SpeedEvilSo it's not hot long enough to recrystalise.04:45
DocScrutinizergraphene bla blah, roll up display, roll up battery, bla blah blah....04:46
DocScrutinizerpfff04:46
HtheB:D04:48
HtheB:D04:48
HtheBif nokia uses this, its just.... "normal"04:48
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I see how you heat the stuff up in microseconds, given you got Thor himself on your side, but how the hell are you cooling it similarly fast?04:48
HtheBif apple use this, it's a NEW REVOLUTION....04:48
SpeedEvilWell - Nokia is working on the roll-up (and blow away) company04:48
HtheB=_=04:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Smack it with two bits of metal04:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Which are chilled04:49
DocScrutinizeraaah, ok04:49
SpeedEvilOnly works for thin sections of course - but that's ideal for things like phone cases04:49
* user0 is back!04:49
* HtheB is going away!04:50
* SpeedEvil farted.04:50
* user0 looks around04:50
DocScrutinizerHtheB: you can't build roll up LiIon today, not with graphene and not with 100 times the power / volume04:50
* HtheB dies04:50
HtheBim not a scientist so, I donno :P04:51
DocScrutinizerHtheB: you also have a hard time building roll up LCD displays04:51
SpeedEvilRoll up LCD is easy.04:51
HtheBthey can already do that DocScrutinizer  ;)04:51
DocScrutinizerand even for OLED it's hard04:51
SpeedEvil(though a bit crunchy)04:51
HtheBsamsung made it already04:52
user0DocScrutinizer : flashing doesnt seeem to remove the lock code at boot04:52
DocScrutinizerHtheB: citation needed - I dare to not believe that04:52
user0i tested it for you last time04:52
HtheBDocScrutinizer: ok hang on :)04:52
HtheBuser0: it can :) just be sure you flash the emmc first04:52
DocScrutinizeruser0: yeah, we had a bit of problems to decrypt your 4 line report04:52
DocScrutinizerHtheB: what's that now with flashing eMC first?04:53
user0DocScrutinizer : wasnt sure if you read what i typed last time04:53
user0the room was like some bot idling lobby last time04:53
DocScrutinizeryou're the first one to claim it depends on eMMC flashing done first04:54
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user0DocScrutinizer: so what wasnt clear about my "4 line report" ?04:54
HtheBDocScrutinizer: well... the lock code should go after normal flashing04:54
DocScrutinizeralost everything :-D04:54
user0:D04:54
DocScrutinizerHtheB: listen and learn04:54
HtheB._.04:54
HtheBit's always better if u flash the emmc too :P04:54
HtheBlol04:54
HtheBanyway04:54
HtheBhttp://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-foldable-crease.html04:55
DocScrutinizeruser0: you said you got a device - same one or new one?04:55
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user0same one04:55
HtheBhttp://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/imagenormal/1305278052.jpeg04:55
DocScrutinizerk04:55
user0it wasnt asking for a code at boot after they sent it back04:55
DocScrutinizerHtheB: pff, amoled04:56
HtheB>.>04:56
DocScrutinizerok, so you john'd the lock code?04:56
HtheBmuch better then lcd if u ask me04:56
user0yes04:56
user0then i changed it, and flashed the device04:56
DocScrutinizerthen you reflashed04:56
DocScrutinizerwhat exactly?04:56
user0rootfs04:57
DocScrutinizer:nod:04:57
user0so...it still asked for a code04:57
DocScrutinizerwhat happened?04:57
user0only this time i knew it04:57
DocScrutinizer:nod:04:57
DocScrutinizerand you had to disable it then, or did it magically stop to ask for lock code after first boot?04:58
user0maybe its just my device, i dont know04:58
user0it was disabled04:58
user0it just asked for the lock code after flashing the device04:59
DocScrutinizerthough you enabled it prior to flashing, I suppose04:59
user0didnt ask for any lock code after that04:59
user0nope04:59
DocScrutinizeroh, you changed the lock code, but didn't actually enable it?05:00
DocScrutinizer"ask for lock code on boot" or whatever05:00
HtheByaaay, Fallout on N900 !05:00
user0correct05:00
user0i just changed it and left it disabled05:00
DocScrutinizeruser0: what's been the image you flashed?05:00
user0RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin05:01
DocScrutinizerthanks05:01
DocScrutinizerWEIRD story, WEIRD05:01
DocScrutinizerI mean how many users changed they lockcode, then disabled it and reflashed rootfs. No such report ever before05:02
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user0well its working perfectly atm05:03
DocScrutinizeryou repeated the procedure to test if it is reproducable for you (your device)?05:03
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DocScrutinizeralso, would you mind to send me a dd copy of your mtd1?05:04
user0yes05:04
user0a few you times actually05:04
DocScrutinizersorry?05:05
user0yes i flashed it more than once to see if it still asked for a lock code05:06
user0and let me check the size of that file you're asking about05:06
HtheBwhat kind of a lock code?05:06
DocScrutinizerand did it same weird thing second time you flash?05:06
user0the connection here sucks05:06
user0yes05:06
DocScrutinizerWEIIIIRD05:06
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user0wasnt surprised when weird stuff started happening05:08
user0it got the device for a low price05:08
DocScrutinizer393216 Bytes (393 kB)05:08
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DocScrutinizersays dd05:08
DocScrutinizerdd if=dev/mtd1 od=whatever05:08
DocScrutinizerof= even05:08
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DocScrutinizerthough:05:11
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# cat /proc/mtd |grep conf05:11
DocScrutinizermtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config"05:11
DocScrutinizersize: 00060000 whatever that means05:11
DocScrutinizer~6 * 6553505:12
infobot39321005:12
DocScrutinizermhm05:12
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DocScrutinizer~6 * 6553605:13
infobot39321605:13
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DocScrutinizerso NOLO is 'only' 100k size05:14
DocScrutinizer;-P05:14
user0DocScrutinizer : what info does this file contain ?05:14
DocScrutinizerlocale, serial#, IMEI(?), some bme cruft, hw revision, WLAN bands allowed (US/EU/WORLD...)05:15
DocScrutinizerI'm not angry if you don't feel like sending it to me, thoughI think the risk is low05:16
DocScrutinizerhowever I'd suggest not to pusblish it to the world05:17
DocScrutinizer;-)05:17
user0:D05:17
user0problem is the file's not plain text :P05:18
DocScrutinizeryep, indeed05:18
DocScrutinizeryou can attach to a mail nevertheless, just like you'd do with a photo05:18
user0more weird stuff btw :P05:18
DocScrutinizeryou just need to create a true file out of the /dev/mtd1, by using dd05:19
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user0the date and time went back to 6am 2009 after keeping it off for a few hours05:19
DocScrutinizernormal05:20
DocScrutinizermeans your backup button cell is as wrecked as anybody else's05:20
DocScrutinizeractually it'd be surprising if it were *not*05:21
HtheBhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noe3kR8KqJc05:21
HtheBlol05:21
user0you know when you remove the battery theres this sticker with some info about the phone05:21
DocScrutinizeryes05:21
user0it had "made in finland"05:22
DocScrutinizerhmm, one of the early ones05:22
DocScrutinizermight explain something05:22
DocScrutinizermaybe you got a pre-summit device05:22
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user0it seemed as if that sticker has another sticker under it05:22
DocScrutinizerthey allegedly are "different"05:22
Hurriancat /proc/cpuinfo now :)05:23
user0so i removed the first one slowly and indeed there was another sticker under it05:23
user0with "made in korea"05:23
DocScrutinizerLOL05:23
DocScrutinizernow WTF?05:23
user0lol05:23
Hurriansomeone trolled you, nokia service centers are supposed to take that off05:23
HtheBfail05:24
Hurrianeh, they take it off if they need to replace it05:24
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep evis05:24
DocScrutinizerCPU revision    : 305:24
DocScrutinizerRevision        : 210105:24
user0referbished device ?05:24
Hurrianapprently that's the water ingress label05:24
HtheBanyway, im going to sleep :) nite all05:24
HtheBits almost 4.30 over here :(05:25
DocScrutinizeruser0: possibly05:25
HtheBgood night05:25
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DocScrutinizeruser0: might have seen a mainboard swap05:26
DocScrutinizeractually it'd be interesting to ask other users that got a PCB swap for fixing USB05:27
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user0DocScrutinizer : the correct IMEI is on the one under btw05:32
SpeedEvilThey can copy the IMEI05:33
user0the first sticker has an imei that doesnt even work on nokia's site05:34
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user0the one under does and is the correct imei of the device05:34
user0weird shit indeed :P05:35
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* SpeedEvil wishes he could alter the IMEI05:35
DocScrutinizerweird weird weird05:36
DocScrutinizermaybe it's a professionally stolen device?05:37
user0thats what i was thinking05:37
DocScrutinizerand they nessed up / ruined something on unlocking it05:38
DocScrutinizerhow did you query the real IMEI?05:38
DocScrutinizer~#06#?05:38
user0settings05:38
DocScrutinizertry *#06# in dialer please05:39
user0same thing05:39
DocScrutinizercat /dev/mtd1 |strings  ;#<<funny05:42
DocScrutinizermight give some clues what happened with that device...05:44
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user0command's giving an error05:52
user0or im just too sleepy to even type it correctly05:52
user0anyways i'll be back tomorrow05:52
user0g'night05:52
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DocScrutinizeryo06:56
DocScrutinizerstrings missing, binutils not installed06:57
* DocScrutinizer curses apt06:57
DocScrutinizerYou might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:06:57
DocScrutinizerThe following packages have unmet dependencies:06:57
DocScrutinizer  hostmode-gui: Depends: kernel-feature-usbhost06:57
DocScrutinizerAfter this operation, 77,8kB of additional disk space will be used.06:58
DocScrutinizerE: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.06:58
DocScrutinizerfsckng python eating ~50MB of my rootspace06:59
DocScrutinizernfc why06:59
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DocScrutinizernot really, those friggin bindmounts are virtually invisible07:02
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HurrianDS: pymaemo-optify?07:08
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DocScrutinizer[2011-06-20 05:58:24] <DocScrutinizer> E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.07:08
HurrianD:07:09
Hurriandf -h /07:09
DocScrutinizer158728  /usr/lib07:09
DocScrutinizer272416  /usr07:09
Hurrianmkdir ~/tempshit07:09
DocScrutinizerdf -xk|sort -n07:09
Hurrian# mount -o bind /var/cache/apt/archives /home/user/tempshit07:09
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Hurrianwhich reminds me, i have a ton of mountpoints on my desktop system07:10
Hurriani'm going to roll it all back into a large ext4 one of these days07:10
* DocScrutinizer wants to shoot hostmode-gui: Depends: kernel-feature-usbhost with a huuuuge gun07:11
Hurrian>kernel-feature-usbhost07:11
Hurrianadd it to the provides of a kernel package then07:11
DocScrutinizeryeah hahaha07:11
DocScrutinizeralas I have a kernel installed that does *not* provide this crap. I'm not as convinced of this little sucker as I've been before07:12
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DocScrutinizercan't I tell apt to ignore this shit?07:13
Hurrian--force ?07:13
DocScrutinizerseems doesn't really help07:13
Hurrianwget the deb, dpkg -i --force-all package.deb07:14
DocScrutinizernah, the problem is I already *have* the package07:14
Hurrianbrb07:14
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DocScrutinizerworst hogs not even tackled: microb and locale07:30
DocScrutinizer22236   /usr/lib/microb-engine07:30
DocScrutinizer14200   /usr/share/microb-engine07:30
DocScrutinizer29068   /usr/lib/locale07:31
DocScrutinizermakes for >60MB in my book07:31
DocScrutinizerhell, my first linux system had a HDD of less than that size07:32
DocScrutinizer(not been a high end box back when)07:33
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly why microb can't get properly optified07:34
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jierohi, is there anybody run python game, pygame?08:45
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lolcatIs nokia N9 announced yet?09:17
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ruskiefrom what I can tell supposedly the announce should ahppen tomorrow09:17
ruskieNokia to announce a "market disrupting device” the "N9" on 21,June09:17
lolcatDoh09:19
lolcatEarly tomorrow?09:19
lolcatI am like a junkie for N9, I just have to have it09:19
lolcatthat and asus eee pad transformer09:19
lolcatruskie: Think it will be decent?09:21
* dm8tbr wonders how a maemo device is supposed to be a market disruption...09:21
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lolcatdm8tbr: Maybe so crap that people will stop using phones alltogether09:23
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nok_fanhi all.. i have an n900 and this is my problem. i have a wireless ad hoc on the computer sharing an internet connection. my n900 connects to this network, however internet isn't there.. by that i mean that when i open the browser, it says microb cannoot connect to the server.. HELP!09:27
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ruskielolcat, wouldn't know... I plan on getting it on contract from the cellco09:32
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nok_fanhi all.. i have an n900 and this is my problem. i have a wireless ad hoc on the computer sharing an internet connection. my n900 connects to this network, however internet isn't there.. by that i mean that when i open the browser, it says microb cannoot connect to the server.. HELP!09:34
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DocScrutinizerannoying like every junkie ;-)09:36
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lolcatnok_fan: Don't repeat09:38
lolcatruskie: So you will get it09:38
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nok_fanlolcat: when am i likely to get a reply?09:38
DocScrutinizernok_fan: problem of you rPC config09:38
lolcatnok_fan: Somewhere around 5th of August09:39
DocScrutinizer~ask09:39
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.09:39
DocScrutinizer~question09:39
infobotquestion is, like, If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html09:39
nok_fanDocScrutinizer how do i go about changing my rPC config09:41
DocScrutinizernok_fan: have you tried this internet-sharing with any other wireless client device?09:41
ruskielolcat, yup I will09:41
nok_fanno i haven't.. it has worked before. bu tit's not working now09:41
ruskielolcat, not sure if I will use it though09:41
nok_fan*but it09:42
DocScrutinizernok_fan: sorry, no idea. Depends on what's your PC's OS. I assume that'S windows, and I guess there are not that many users here that can help on that09:42
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lolcatinfobot: I am here by force09:42
infobotit is my pleasure to meet you, here by force09:42
gomiamnok_fan: have you tried connecting to an IP?09:42
nok_fanDocScrutinizer: yes it's windows 7.09:43
nok_fangomiam: no i haven't09:43
DocScrutinizerdamn, why did I know? ;-D09:43
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gomiaminstead of connecting to, for example, http://www.rediris.es/, try to connect to http:/130.206.1.46/09:43
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gomiamouch09:43
gomiamhttp://130.206.1.46/09:44
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nok_fanok09:44
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gomiamif it connects then you have a name resolution problem. If it doesn't it is probably a routing problem09:44
* DocScrutinizer starts to charge his special avahi gun09:45
gomiam(all this under the assumption you are getting  a valid IP)09:45
DocScrutinizerwhich is just another question for ad-hoc09:45
gomiamnok_fan: I guess you have your PC set to Internet Connection Sharing, right?09:45
nok_fanyes09:46
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DocScrutinizerwhich awakens all the windows gremlins09:46
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DocScrutinizer:-P09:46
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nok_fanit's a WEP network on my pc09:47
* DocScrutinizer suggests ifconfig09:47
DocScrutinizerand route09:47
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DocScrutinizerand ping <other-PC>09:47
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gomiamnok_fan: mmm... one thing has nothing to do with the other. You can have a WEP ad hoc connection but if you haven't set the Windows PC to share its Internet connection with the ad hoc network you won't get anywhere09:48
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nok_fani have set it to share the internet connection..09:48
DocScrutinizerisn't there this mad like batshit protocol where windows PCs are just grabbing a probably free IP, without any dhcp server involved?09:49
gomiamDocScrutinizer: you mean Bonjour... or autoDHCP09:49
DocScrutinizeryup09:49
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gomiamyes, they get IPs on the 169.254.*.* range, but I don't really like those kinds of things. It was what I was going to ask nok_fan to check right now :)09:50
DocScrutinizeraka avahi >:-(09:50
gomiamnok_fan: please press Windows+R, type  CMD and press "Accept"09:50
nok_fanand then type ipconfig?09:51
gomiamright09:51
gomiamXD09:51
DocScrutinizeraka Zeroconf09:51
gomiamjust to make sure the ad hoc interface is set to 192.168.0.109:51
gomiamwhich is the usual DHCP server IP address when using a Windows PC to share its connection09:51
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* DocScrutinizer suggests to press ctl-shift-x, root, ifconfig09:52
nok_fannaa it's set to 192.168.137.109:52
DocScrutinizeron N90009:52
DocScrutinizerbut wait, no rootsh installed :-/09:52
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nok_fani've installed rootsh09:52
gomiamnok_fan: I guess they changed it from Windows XP :)09:52
gomiamok09:52
gomiamwhat does /sbin/ifconfig show on the n900?09:53
DocScrutinizersame as ifconfig on windows09:53
DocScrutinizererr ipconfig09:53
psycho_oreosyou meant ipconfig09:53
psycho_oreos:)09:53
nok_fanyea i got that09:53
gomiamDocScrutinizer: no, it shouldn't show the same. If everything is right it should show IP address 192.168.137.x with 1<x<25509:54
DocScrutinizerlol09:54
DocScrutinizerexactly09:54
gomiam;)09:54
DocScrutinizerifconfig wlan0 even, iirc09:55
nok_fanok there's a wlan0:1 with inet addr: 169.254.158.4009:55
gomiamnok_fan: that doesn't look too good. Is there a wlan0 without :1 ?09:56
DocScrutinizerhmm, seems to be the cause of problem09:56
DocScrutinizerwtf is :1 ?09:56
gomiamDocScrutinizer: sub-interface09:56
gomiamit allows you to have several IPs on the same hardware interface09:56
DocScrutinizerhow can it get there on wl1251?09:56
DocScrutinizerhotspot?09:57
DocScrutinizeror joghurt sport?09:57
DocScrutinizeror some absolutely mad "optimizer" for maemo wlan?09:57
gomiamDocScrutinizer: no idea. But the Linux kernel supposedly supports several IPs on any given interface.09:58
nok_fanwell the wlan0:0 is up broadcast running multicast etc but doesn't show any inet addr09:58
DocScrutinizersure, just I never seen it in real life09:58
gomiamDocScrutinizer: that's what you get for not having to deal with VLANs :P09:58
DocScrutinizernok_fan: that's definitely odd09:58
gomiamnok_fan: I suspect you may have miswritten your WEP password (either on the n900 or the Windows PC)09:59
DocScrutinizergonmight be true, yes09:59
DocScrutinizero.O09:59
gomiamnok_fan: would you be so kind to double check it on both?09:59
nok_fanwtf? my wep security key's changed from what i saved it to a 10 digit number10:00
nok_fanthis is on the pc10:00
DocScrutinizercan't ever be a 10 digit number10:00
gomiamnok_fan: that doesn't look too good :) A 10 digit number means a 64-bit WEP key10:00
gomiamDocScrutinizer: yes it can, actually. I have seen a 64 WEP key that was 123456789010:01
nok_fani'd saved it as a 5 character code10:01
DocScrutinizerwep usually is 13 chars10:01
gomiamI had to crack it twice because I didn't believe it10:01
DocScrutinizer5 is ok too afaik10:01
gomiamnok_fan: not if you have typed 10 hexadecimal digits10:01
gomiamthen it will automatically understand you are typing a "5 character" key in hexadecimal10:02
gomiamthe same happens if you type a 26 hexadecimal digit password10:02
nok_fank.. so i'll try typing this number as the code on my n90010:02
DocScrutinizeryes10:02
nok_fanand try connecting again10:02
DocScrutinizerI suggest using a fresh proper 13char password on both ends10:03
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nok_fanok.. i'll create a new one then10:04
* DocScrutinizer passes mic to gomiam as that's clearly the more competent expert on this10:05
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psycho_oreosHurrian, ping10:06
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: dong10:07
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol, you know that could mean something completely off ;)10:07
DocScrutinizer;-P10:07
DocScrutinizer~ding10:07
infobotdong10:07
DocScrutinizer~pong10:07
infobot~ping10:07
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nok_fanyes!! works! :P10:10
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, tried busybox-power? I saw your wiki.maemo.org username page and you suggested procps, I wonder if the stuff now provided by busybox-power would be enough to cover that?10:10
DocScrutinizerTADAAA10:10
nok_fanhaha10:10
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: you are kidding, no?10:11
DocScrutinizer~messybox10:11
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils10:11
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nok_fanwhatsapp hasn't arrived for nokia n900 yet.. damn10:13
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DocScrutinizereh?10:13
nok_fanWhatsApp.. it's an application similar to BBM10:14
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, http://pastebin.com/KgCQs0zY <-- looks like busybox-power has many tools, not saying that you're wrong but I thought it might be interesting to have a look10:14
DocScrutinizer:shrug:10:14
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I'm not really interested in messybox, no matter which flavour10:15
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DocScrutinizertbh I'd be even too scared about impact of replacing stock maemo busybox, regarding bootloop issues etc10:15
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DocScrutinizerplus I'm quite a dusty old school unix fart, I love the concept of one tool per task10:17
DocScrutinizerbinaries >300k are already suspicious ;-)10:17
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DocScrutinizerand a shell with all commands built in just feels way to MSDOSy10:18
DocScrutinizerwait, that's been yet another story10:18
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol fair enough10:18
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DocScrutinizerhonestly the purpose of busybox on a system with a 500MHz processor and 32GB storage is completely beyond me10:20
psycho_oreosto me busybox reminds me of the standard monolithic kernel that literally everyone who runs linux does. A fair proportion of modules built into kernel making kernel rather big10:20
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psycho_oreosthough 32GB with 512MB for swap, 2GB for /home/user and the rest (which is ~29GB) for /home/user/MyDocs (which is formatted as default to FAT32)10:21
DocScrutinizerwell, once there's been a time, when there simply had to be some modules in kernel, and you had to build your own kernel for every new machine10:21
DocScrutinizerthat's been round about the time shortly before initrd got invented10:22
psycho_oreoswouldn't be GNU hurd you're referring to?10:22
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DocScrutinizerthere's been even that mad tool to patch the kernel for some special parameters to match your machine10:22
DocScrutinizerthe binary kernel, not the source10:23
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DocScrutinizernah, that's been like last milenium10:24
psycho_oreos*shrug* I haven't been in the linux scene that long :) this must be pre 2.0.x days from my assumption10:24
DocScrutinizerquite possibly10:24
chem|styawn10:27
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DocScrutinizerreyawn10:42
RST38hyawn indeed10:42
DocScrutinizerchem|st: heh, SuSE4.2 ? ;-)10:42
DocScrutinizertried Minix before, but it needed a MMU and I had none :-/10:43
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DocScrutinizerAmigaOS was just unixoid enough for some time10:44
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DocScrutinizerand had that monitor, unparalleled. better than sysinternals^htop10:45
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DocScrutinizermeh, make that sysinternals^gdb^powertop10:47
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DocScrutinizerobviously no one tool one task piece of sw ;-) Nevertheless brilliant10:49
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cloudyLightsI need some help with scratchbox10:56
cloudyLightshttp://dpaste.com/556389/10:56
cloudyLightsI am trying to install this package I wrote on my N900 on my pc10:56
cloudyLights`Depends' field, syntax error after reference to package `python-dbus'10:57
cloudyLightswhy doesnt scratchbox have the sources to this dependency?10:57
cloudyLightshow to add?10:57
JaffaMorning, all10:57
cloudyLightshi Jaffa10:57
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chem|st?11:04
cloudyLightshi chem|st11:04
cloudyLightscan you help me with adding repo to my scratchbox?11:05
chem|sthi cloudyLights11:05
chem|steither with /etc/apt/source.list or app-manager11:05
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cloudyLightsshould I just copy my N900 /etc/apt/sources.list ?11:05
chem|stnope11:06
DocScrutinizerwhy would you need a new repo?11:06
Macerto test personal debs on a private repo?11:06
DocScrutinizerwouldn't apt-get source python-dbus do?11:06
chem|stthe cloudyLights the /apt/sources.list is actualy not used but some scripts up n900's behind...11:06
chem|stDocScrutinizer: is yawn suse 4.2?11:07
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DocScrutinizernah, you caught me during my sentimental 5 minutes11:07
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chem|st?11:07
DocScrutinizerfirst suse distro I used11:08
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cloudyLightsDocScrutinizer: http://dpaste.com/556392/11:09
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: and yes, it actually had kernel 1.2.1311:09
cloudyLightsso it seems as if my scratchbox has access to python-dbus11:09
chem|stDocScrutinizer: OT: now running a msi R6950 TwinFrozr III Premium/OC edition and a msi HD5850 TwinFrozr II (underclocked as I need a new PSU...)11:09
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cloudyLightsso why is my previus error?11:09
cloudyLightshttp://dpaste.com/556389/11:10
cloudyLightsodd - no?11:10
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol talk about really ancient ;)11:11
chem|stcloudyLights: have you tried "fakeroot" up front? never got anything to work without11:11
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DocScrutinizeralso maybe your second step fixed the error in first now11:12
DocScrutinizernot really odd11:12
cloudyLightschem|st: I ran fakeroot dpkg ... - same resault11:12
cloudyLightsalso ran fakeroot11:12
cloudyLightsthen the dpkg - same resault11:13
cloudyLightsDocScrutinizer: no , I still cant install my deb11:13
DocScrutinizerNB I'm completely clueless regarding installs in SB11:13
cloudyLights~seen MohammadAG11:14
infobotmohammadag is currently on #maemo (19h 9m 23s) #meego (19h 9m 23s). Has said a total of 24 messages. Is idling for 9h 49m 9s, last said: 'that should give you an estimate :p'.11:14
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DocScrutinizertry fakeroot apt-get install python-dbus11:15
DocScrutinizerinstead of source11:15
DocScrutinizercan't be that hard11:16
cloudyLightsworks!11:16
DocScrutinizerpython is looking for a library and you know the filename11:16
cloudyLightsbut I can't install my deb still - same error11:16
DocScrutinizeryour own deb?11:17
cloudyLightsyes11:17
DocScrutinizermight got "linked" against the wrong lib11:17
cloudyLightsI used pypackager....11:18
DocScrutinizerhmm, no clue really11:18
cloudyLightsthanks11:18
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DocScrutinizerparse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/control' near line 6 package `switchprofbymeeting':11:18
DocScrutinizer `Depends' field, syntax error after reference to package `python-dbus'11:18
DocScrutinizerso check that line. Syntax error doesn't exactly sound like an unmet dependency11:19
DocScrutinizeryou might have a typo *somewhere*11:19
DocScrutinizeror pypackager did an ooopsie11:21
EuPhobosHi all11:22
DocScrutinizercat /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/control | head -n 8 | tail -n 411:22
EuPhobosSomebody help me to recovery my n900.. i messed up /etc/fstab.. how to i cat access to NAND memory?11:22
DocScrutinizeror simply >>less /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/control11:23
DocScrutinizerthen go to line 611:23
DocScrutinizerand inspect11:23
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cloudyLightscat: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/control: No such file or directory11:23
DocScrutinizernow that's too bad, it erased the temporary file :-/11:24
DocScrutinizerunless you did this outside of SB, where /ver is quite a bit different from what it is inside11:24
tzafrir_laptopdpkg --info package.deb11:24
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joga(off-topic) this is old already but now there are funny pictures ;) https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be11:25
DocScrutinizerEuPhobos: you can't mess up fstab11:25
cloudyLightshttp://dpaste.com/556393/11:25
DocScrutinizerEuPhobos: it is autogenerated on each boot11:25
cloudyLightsI ran dpkg -e <deb>11:25
EuPhobosDocScrutinizer: ofcouse but i'm edit the generator script.. I need only fix it, but i cant access to memory..11:26
tzafrir_laptopcloudyLights, Maintainer is supposed to be a full email, right? 'niv' is a bit ambigious11:26
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tzafrir_laptopDepends should be comma-separated11:27
cloudyLightsI promiss to fix it11:27
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cloudyLightsha ha!11:27
cloudyLightsthanks!11:27
tzafrir_laptopI'm not sure there's a point of an empty 'Suggests'11:27
DocScrutinizerjoga: you're sure that's not a rogue page?11:27
EuPhobos/usr/lib/genfstab.awk has been edit and take mistake to options..11:28
tzafrir_laptopIs it OK to has a package name that is no small caps?11:28
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DocScrutinizerEuPhobos: tricky nasty problem then11:28
cloudyLightscan anyone sugget a better name for tha package?11:28
EuPhobosYes, it's too hard to get access to NAND memory..11:28
cloudyLightsI used switchProfByMeeting11:28
DocScrutinizerit's basically impossible11:28
DocScrutinizeryou need to mount ubifs11:29
tzafrir_laptopAlso: "Priority: low" - that should be "extra" rather than "low", right?11:29
EuPhobosEven the meego rescue initrd not help..11:29
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EuPhobosyes but how..11:29
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DocScrutinizerbut I wonder how you'll do that as system wont boot when rootfs not mounted11:29
tzafrir_laptopcloudyLights, the name of the google code project?11:29
DocScrutinizerEuPhobos: indeed, recue-initrd is useless crap11:30
DocScrutinizerEuPhobos: tried meego proper?11:30
EuPhobosDocScrutinizer where i can get this?11:30
DocScrutinizermeego.com I guess11:31
cloudyLightsswitch-profile-by-meeting11:31
cloudyLights?11:31
DocScrutinizerEuPhobos: https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n90011:32
tzafrir_laptopcloudyLights, yes11:32
DocScrutinizerno google project11:33
cloudyLightstoo long?11:33
DocScrutinizernm11:33
DocScrutinizercal2prof11:34
cloudyLightsnice11:34
EuPhobosDocScrutinizer: thanks i'will try this..11:34
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DocScrutinizeror appointment-profiles11:35
DocScrutinizerprofile-appointments11:35
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DocScrutinizeryou can even use cal2prof as technical name and profile-appointments as pretty name11:36
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DocScrutinizererr technical name is unix name iirc11:37
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murraycHas anyone noticed a redirect somewhere in repository.maemo.org to http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/sdk/host/repos/Invalid/Packages ?11:51
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murraycHmm, no something else is going wrong.11:55
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khertanHello !12:25
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cloudyLightskhertan: hi , going to lunch brb12:39
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thopiekar_n900why is libgl-dev installable on fremantle 32 but not armel?13:49
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cehtehthopiekar_n900: because there is no gl hardware in the arm emulator13:53
cehtehsdk is a build environment, not for running all kinds of apps13:54
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cehteh(err .. bullshit .. -dev :) should be there somehow)13:54
ruskielol13:55
thopiekar_n900so what can i do if i need to compile a application that optionally needs these headers?13:55
ruskiewouldn't headers be equal on both?13:55
Jaffathopiekar_n900: You can compile it, but not run it.13:55
JaffaUntil you scp it onto the device (IIRC)13:56
thopiekar_n900I need it for mythtv to get opengl support for watching tv..13:56
thopiekar_n900jaffa.. you mean not run it on the n900?13:56
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SpeedEvilnot run in scratchbox13:57
cloudyLightskhertan: how can I make the package install in arml and also in i386?13:59
cloudyLightsp.arch=?14:00
thopiekar_n900so I'll need to keep using XV right?14:00
thopiekar_n900SpeedEvil so how can I install the headers?14:02
SpeedEvildunno14:03
thopiekar_n900hmm14:03
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thopiekar_n900do you know which video output the default mediaplayer is using?14:04
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cloudyLights[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > mkdir -p /home/opt/usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/hildon14:32
cloudyLightserrr14:32
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MohammadAGvideo output14:43
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cloudyLightsMohammadAG!14:44
cloudyLightscan you pls help me use scratchbox?14:44
cloudyLightsI can't emulate deb install14:44
cloudyLights[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > mkdir -p /home/opt/usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/hildon fails14:45
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khertancloudyLights, hello !14:45
cloudyLightshi mate14:45
khertancloudyLights, p.arch=all14:45
khertan"all" exactly :)14:45
cloudyLightshow to allow the python deb to run on my N900 and the pc scratchbox?14:45
cloudyLightsok14:45
cloudyLightsthanks14:46
cloudyLightsany idea how to solve the /home/opt/usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/hildon fails ?14:46
MohammadAGuse /opt not /home/opt14:47
MohammadAGboth on device and in scratchbox14:47
MohammadAGand why mkdir that14:47
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MohammadAGuse /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/hildon directly14:48
MohammadAGit's the right way since that is a symlink14:48
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cloudyLightso ok , didnt know14:54
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cloudyLightsMohammadAG: E: Unable to find a source package for python-mafw15:12
cloudyLightsin scratchbox15:12
MohammadAGadd extras-devel15:13
cloudyLightshow to do it in command/15:13
cloudyLights?15:13
cloudyLightsmaybe you remmebr....15:13
MohammadAGecho deb_line >> /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update15:14
MohammadAGI don't have the line atm15:14
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cloudyLightsdeb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free non-free15:18
MohammadAGand deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free15:20
MohammadAGfor sources15:20
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cloudyLights/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list doesnt exist in scratchbox15:23
cloudyLightsis this good?15:23
cloudyLights/etc/apt/sources.list is empty15:23
* SpeedEvil is now up to 4 calls recieved on the n900.15:24
JaffaEver?15:24
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SpeedEvilyes15:25
JaffaWow15:26
* Jaffa had two this morning. Both from his wife about the fact our hot water cylinder was leaking15:26
SpeedEvilI don't give out the number.15:26
SpeedEvilMy hot water cylinder is not leaking.15:26
SpeedEvilIt's disconnected until I re-fit it.15:26
Spydemonhi all ;-)15:26
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crashanddieJaffa, has it been 9 months already?15:27
SpeedEvilI had to disconnecte it as the muppet that fitted it arranged it cleverly so that to change the immersion element would require me to remove the roof.15:27
JaffaSpeedEvil: Unfortunate15:27
Jaffacrashanddie: :-p15:27
Spydemondid anyone knows if dsmetool is a software used to start other softwares ?15:29
MohammadAGyes it is15:30
crashanddiefucking stupid codemonkey webdevelopers with their fucking attitudes and pride. Learn to code, learn to properly use a database, learn to read documentation, learn to document your own code. Fucking wankers.15:30
meceIlmatar!15:30
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MohammadAGone that keeps respawning processes till they work15:30
MohammadAGif they don't, reboot the device till they do15:30
MohammadAGand my PC is giving me kernel panics at bootup15:31
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MohammadAGfun times15:31
crashanddieMohammadAG, buntu?15:31
NIN101http://www.debian.org/security/2011/dsa-2264 - The (potential) vulnerabilities are rising and rising for maemo, in kernel and userspace.15:31
MohammadAGcrashanddie, yeah, unplugged the charger and it worked15:32
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Spydemonok so, if i want to use another alarm clock, it's in dsmetool that I must make some changes ?15:35
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khertanwhere is the bookmaker to register bet on the new or not maemo 6 device ?15:36
khertancrashanddie, webdevelopers <<<< hum ... you didn't see any problem here ?15:37
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SpeedEvilI will take any bets on the new device to be released either with or without a keyboard at -10:115:37
crashanddiekhertan, I used to be a webdev, and seemed to be doing alright.15:37
khertanweb dev ...15:38
khertanhum ... it s like saying True == False15:38
khertanit s not possible15:38
khertan:)15:38
crashanddieactually, in Python, it is.15:38
crashanddieTrue = False15:38
crashanddieif True == False: print 'hey there'15:38
khertanwhile 1>2:15:39
khertan  print "web dev is a myth"15:39
khertanelse:15:39
khertan  print "web dev didn't exists"15:39
khertan:)15:40
khertanhum ... while else15:40
khertanthe new loop ;)15:40
khertani should stop doing 4D code15:40
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DocScrutinizerSpydemon: your question is kinda odd16:39
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: lol @ muppet16:40
ShadowJKah the "big reveal" was tomorrow16:41
ShadowJKor the "big sigh" when they hold up a w7p ;p16:41
DocScrutinizerI bet 5 bucks on "SUCKS"16:41
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SpydemonDocScrutinizer, I want to make another alarm clock, so when it's time to the alarm to ring, my own alarm clock should be running instead the default16:44
DocScrutinizerI thing libalarmd would handle that for you16:44
DocScrutinizerthink even16:45
DocScrutinizeryou may want to have a look into alarmed package16:45
DocScrutinizerit basically *is* an alternative alarm clock16:45
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DocScrutinizerjust the GUI isn't exactly tailored to serve as a stupid night desk alarm clock16:46
Spydemonok thanks, i'll have a look ;-)16:47
DocScrutinizerfirst install the app,it's painless16:47
ShadowJKI guess we should be worried when eldar is saying something positive16:48
DocScrutinizerthen check the cmdline interface which could offer most of what you need for core functionality16:48
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DocScrutinizerI actually suggest to rather use alarmed app for a core service replacing the missing at daemon, rather than implementing yet another app that is messing with libalarmd directly16:50
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khertanDocScrutinizer, indeed ... alarmed is marvelous for running backup, auto sync, commit, nightly :)16:54
DocScrutinizerSpydemon:16:54
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ln -s  /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py /usr/bin/alarmed16:54
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# alarmed --help16:54
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keriowhy doesn't maemo use cron, again?16:55
DocScrutinizerkhertan: a few of the suggestions, esp cmdline and running scripts, are by me :-)16:56
Spydemonthanks DocScrutinizer :)16:56
Spydemonyou seems to be a good hacker :p16:56
DocScrutinizerkerio: because cron can't really work on a system like maemo16:56
keriowhy not16:56
khertanbecause16:57
kerioit's supposed to be unix16:57
khertanyep but not suppose to be connected to the wall charger all time16:57
DocScrutinizeralarmd lib is beyond what cron can handle16:57
bindiare we all excited for tomorrows release16:57
DocScrutinizeralarmd also knows to hw-alarm16:57
khertanand cron didn't suppose to be running when device sleep16:57
DocScrutinizerexactly16:58
DocScrutinizeralso alarmd is doing a bit of optimization by concatenating alarms so wakeups are less frequently, AIUI16:59
DocScrutinizersure they could have built sth like alarmd, and give it a frontend compatible to cron16:59
DocScrutinizerwe have several such things, in maemo and elsewhere. in maemo there's alarmed and fcron, in FSO/SHR we got fsoatd17:00
DocScrutinizer(also my suggestion ;-)17:01
DocScrutinizeralarmed cli should be as much cron-y as possible17:02
DocScrutinizerthat's why I suggest using it instead of direct interfacing to libalarmd17:02
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DocScrutinizer-c 'CRON', --cron='CRON'17:03
DocScrutinizer                        Supply recurrence using cron-like syntax. Make sure to17:03
DocScrutinizer                        use quotes, for example: '5 * 12,14,16 02,02 3'17:03
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khertanSomeone here is playing with QML on n900 ?17:35
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khertani got frequent segfault with my pyside loader that i didn't understand : QObject::connect: Cannot queue arguments of type 'QNetworkConfigurationPrivatePointer'17:36
khertan(Make sure 'QNetworkConfigurationPrivatePointer' is registered using qRegisterMetaType().)17:36
khertanSegmentation fault17:36
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javispedroso now I have definite proof that there will be a dev device soon.18:14
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javispedrowhy? because I had to call in sick. last time I had to, that same day the ddp was announced.18:14
javispedro(proof of that is on this channel' logs =) )18:15
Jaffajavispedro: And you've not been sick between then & now?18:16
javispedronot a single day.18:16
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Jaffajavispedro: Wow18:17
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javispedro(that I remember =) )18:18
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javispedroso my wacky prediction is clearly to be believed in.18:19
crashanddieddp?18:19
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javispedrodevice developer program, back in n900 times18:20
SpeedEviljavispedro: :)18:21
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javispedroI bet you will all watch the livestream :)18:21
javispedro(I won't -- I need the sleep)18:21
crashanddienope18:21
crashanddiecba18:21
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SpeedEvilWhat livestream?18:23
nicofsHello! I have a Nokia N900, and I'm trying to chat using the integrated chat client. While I can log in to skype, neither ICQ nor MSN are working. Has anyone got an idea why?18:23
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crashanddienicofs, did you install the plugin?18:24
crashanddienicofs, look for MSN Protocol Plugin For Conversations And Contacts18:25
javispedroSpeedEvil: more like "liveblog"18:25
SpeedEvilah18:25
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nicofscrashanddie, i installed everything that had the name plugin in it...18:26
Sicelox/sb clear18:26
nicofscrashanddie, pidgin works, but sadly it's not that well integrated into the system...18:26
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nicofsIs it possible to run Android apps in maemo?19:02
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Jaffanicofs: There is a proof-of-concept OEM solution called Alien Dalvik. However, it is not publically available.19:08
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nicofsJaffa, what exactly does that mean?19:13
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ruskienicofs, that it is possible but only if you belong to the secret club19:13
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ruskieand even then it doesn't actually hook into the maemo bs iirc19:14
ruskieerm dbs19:14
nicofsruskie, how do i join the secret club?19:14
ruskiewouldn't know19:14
ruskienever was interested in that19:14
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ruskiemaybe web searching will yield some results19:15
nid0the easiest way is probably http://www.myriadgroup.com/~/link.aspx?_id=F028A669103D402A95D53860D3CBD907&_z=z19:16
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Jaffanicofs: Be a mass-market producer of Maemo 5 devices; contact them an ask for a licence. Pay. Ship device. Profit.19:20
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Jaffanicofs: In other words, you don't join that secret club.19:20
JaffaIt's like VMware demonstrating VMs on N800s: it's a tech demo to advertise the company, not enrich users of the platform's lives19:21
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nicofswhy does everything always have to be iOS or android...19:22
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loft306they keep making devvices at a rapid pace?  a bigger user base?19:27
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loft306more profit potentian for the dev of the app?19:28
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GAN900People have descended to calling any smartphone here an "iphone"19:32
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GeneralAntillesSo, keynote is at 0200 UTC. Which of you will be up for it? :P19:50
* SpeedEvil will probably be.19:50
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* NIN101 19:51
* ShadowJK will be trying to arbitrate the argument between his stomach and the morning coffee19:51
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abGeneralAntilles, it is 5am finnish time so bearable, especially with white nights19:54
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GeneralAntillesWell, gotta say I'm happy to finally have a product announcement time that fits into my schedule.19:57
vi__GeneralAntilles: n9?19:57
GeneralAntillesvi__, apparently.19:57
GeneralAntilles10:00 PM EDT19:58
vi__GeneralAntilles: I am being a little more cautious about counting my chickens19:58
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GeneralAntillesvi__, well, there's an image alt that says "Nokia N9 - Lannku"19:59
GeneralAntillesBuried on the Nokia site.19:59
GeneralAntillesWeAreMeeGo was resurrected last week.19:59
vldcnstWill there be a live stream?19:59
GeneralAntillesShould be.19:59
vldcnstWill there be popcorn?19:59
GeneralAntillesOnly if you cook your own.20:00
vi__providing you provide it.20:00
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cloudyLightsgettting used to scratchbox , here. not bad20:09
MacercloudyLights: have you fixed the sdk for maemo?20:11
Macerdoes meego use scratchbox?20:11
cloudyLightsI think so20:11
MacercloudyLights: did you install on a box?20:11
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Maceror did you use the image?20:12
cloudyLightsI installed scratchbox on my laptop20:12
Macerand the maemo sdk?20:12
Macerwow20:12
cloudyLightsI am a gentoo user, but I installed ubuntu - just to get it working20:12
Maceri could never get it to work20:12
Maceryou should blog what you did :-P20:12
Macernatty?20:12
cloudyLightsI had to get assistence here from MohammadAG20:13
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cloudyLightsand you need to read the wiki a few times20:13
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jef91Anyone have the .deb for angry birds laying around somewhere? Not the level packs - just the free version itself20:13
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cloudyLightsand all this work , just to release a simple app20:14
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vi__GeneralAntilles: its real20:23
vi__GeneralAntilles: http://pocketnow.com/android/nokia-n9-first-press-shots20:23
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Spydemonn900 doesn't use cron, isn't it ? So, what is use instead of it ?20:26
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jogaSpydemon I found that Alarmed fills all my schedule needs20:27
joga(running a script daily + some random stuff occasionally)20:27
vi__n900 uses alarmd20:28
vi__it is more or less a cron copy20:28
vi__there is a nice front end called alarmed written in python20:28
vi__though you can install cron if you want20:29
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GAN900vi__, weird look.20:29
GAN900Certain distinctive, though.20:29
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vi__wierd? in what respect20:31
vi__just an N8 with less corner and more screen.20:31
Spydemonyes, DocScrutinizer told me about Alarmed, but how Alarmed does the auto - execution ? It isn't something higher ?20:32
GAN900Dunno, N8 looks weird to me too.20:32
cloudyLightsNokia Connection?20:32
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vi__where is the USB port?20:33
GAN900If only we had had this in SF20:33
GAN900Would've been a much less depressing event.20:33
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ShadowJKis this keyboardless20:34
GAN900Yes20:35
GAN900So we haven't seen the "N950" yet20:35
GAN900Hopefully that doesn't mean its cancelled20:35
kirmaah, convincing renderings of "N9" at tmo20:36
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kirmalike, it's missing usb port, and either charger or earphone jack too... :I20:36
GAN900I have very little faith in Nokia's ability to produce a usable touch keyboard. *g*20:37
ShadowJKindeed20:37
ShadowJKWell even if they did, I'd want it on a slide out second screen ;P20:38
ShadowJKdon't want wasted screenspace..20:38
vi__yeah20:38
vi__how do I double tab into a virtual kb?20:38
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ShadowJKbtw, did Nokia Research Center have "feelable" haptic feedback? Like the superimposed vibrations thing so you can "feel" key boundaries on touchscreen?20:39
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ShadowJKThis will be frustrating. On one hand you'd want to buy the MeeGo device in order for it to be a success, so that it doesn't die, but on the other hand you'd want to wait for qwerty20:41
vi__that and the qwerty is going to be WELL old by the time it gets here20:41
ShadowJKwell it'd be newer than N90020:42
ShadowJKAnd a MeeGo device would probably only be a week or two of hacking to become usable upgrade from N900/Maemo520:43
ShadowJKor a month20:43
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ShadowJKit took like 7 years to make xchat usable20:48
* ShadowJK wonders how long to make usable irc client in QT...20:48
Cor-Aiwhy use anyting else then irssi?20:48
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Choomindeed20:54
Choomthat's what I've been using since 200020:54
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ShadowJKi can't get overview of activity in irssi in any meaningful way :p20:54
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Choomand before irssi it was BitchX, but I don't want to remember that20:54
hiemanshuShadowJK: there is quassel2go, ask people to fix it :P20:55
ShadowJKI used epic before irssi... :P20:55
hiemanshuso it seems that the N950 (or whatever it is) will be announced tomorrow?20:56
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Choomhiemanshu: is that so?20:56
hiemanshuChoom: http://www.happyassassin.net/2011/06/19/n900-successor-announced-tuesday/\20:56
hiemanshuerr remove the \ at the end20:57
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hiemanshuthe author is a friend, and well can be trusted20:57
Choomthanks20:57
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Choomhope it comes with a capacitive screen20:58
ShadowJKI hope it doesn't come with a capacitive screen20:58
ShadowJKIt took them like, what, 7 years from making their first with a resistive screen until making one that was good like N900.. I imagine it'd take them just as long to perfect capacitive :P21:00
Choomyour collective resistance (pun intended) to capacitive screens intrigues me21:00
Choomah21:01
Choomthere are also optic screens, but I don't think those are suitable for mobile devices21:02
Cor-AiChoom: haha bitchX that was a "fun" time for me to! :p21:02
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Choomthey work great on the desktop though, combining both the good aspects of capacitive and resistive without the drawbacks21:02
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ShadowJKthe flesh of my fingers presents a too gigantic reading on capacitive21:04
* ShadowJK 's netbook has capacitive touchpad, it's nearly unusable :-(21:05
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ChoomI've been thinking about getting one of those myself21:06
lcukShadowJK, depends on utility and scale21:06
Choomthey make all the sense on laptops21:06
* lcuk wants dual mode21:07
ShadowJKlaptop interprets finger movement as series of random clicks21:07
lcukupgrade your fingers21:07
ShadowJKunless I press hard, then it's 50/50 between pointer movement and lockout because it thinks I put down entire foot on it or something21:08
ChoomShadowJK: are you sure that's a capacitive screen?21:09
Choomcapacitive screens are usually quite sensitive21:09
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ShadowJKyes because it doesn't react to nails21:09
lcukChoom, sensitive to skin21:09
lcuknot to fingernail21:09
GeneralAntillesI don't get the fixation people have on WP7.21:10
GeneralAntilles"that would be a hit with windows phone 7!"21:10
GeneralAntillesNo. It'd be shit.21:11
ShadowJKisn't wp7 more like a featurephone with html5 support?21:11
hiemanshuWindows Phone 7 now with a green screen of death!21:11
hiemanshu(TM)21:11
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wmaroneGeneralAntilles: because Microsoft! and Xbox!21:14
GAN900Choom, because they're a pain to use when your fingers are trained for resistive.21:16
GAN900They're also stupidly imprecise.21:16
GAN900mikhas, don't think about discussion things in #meego that might have a shot at making it semi-relevant.21:16
GAN900Fool.21:17
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hiemanshuI have an iPhone and a N900, dont really see that much of a different in touch (well no multitouch tough)21:19
GAN900Try placing an insertion point on the iPhone.21:20
ShadowJKI imagine mediocre capacitive is going to be worse... and then, well, do you think Nokia does high-end or mediocre on first try :)21:20
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mikhasGAN900, come again?21:21
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mikhasShadowJK, that can be adjusted on the driver level21:21
ShadowJKlol?21:22
mikhasyes21:22
GeneralAntillesmikhas, sorry, just being cynical about #meego and things which might help the project but which Intel doesn't like. :P21:22
mikhasinstead of testing for a fixed value, test for delta in a given time frame21:22
ShadowJKSo the sub-par performance of htc vs iphone capacitive is just due to shitty drivers?21:22
mikhaswell written drivers can do wonders in that area21:23
ShadowJKcausing a straight line grid drawn on screen to come out as wavy lines in a grid with each rectangle different size?21:23
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ShadowJKhttp://www.esphoneblog.com/2010/01/09/capacitive-touch-screen-battle-iphone-droid-nexus-one-and-eris/ this is fixable in drivers?21:25
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thopiekarhi.. I got now MythTV packaged for my N900 BUT: I can't use the QMySQL driver when launching it.. libqt4-sql-mysql is installed..21:55
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Sc0rpiushttp://www.fonearena.com/blog/39574/nokia-n9-press-images-leaked.html22:02
Sc0rpiusif that's true, that phone will suck22:02
Sc0rpiuswe NEED a physical keyboard!22:02
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swordiphysical keyboards sucks, they are only good for noobs and not for those who want a real touch keyboard22:03
wmaroneswordi: oh please ;p22:03
swordihey cmon, it's been a while since i trolled here22:05
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cehtehi dont want a n9 either way :P22:08
Sc0rpiuswell22:08
Sc0rpiusI would have liked a nice phone with Meego22:08
Sc0rpiusbut without a physical keyboard? no.22:08
Sc0rpiusand swordi it seems you don't do heavy ssh from your phone22:09
swordiSc0rpius, what's about usb keyboards?22:09
Sc0rpiuswhere a virtual keyboard would not only suck in speed but it will occupy the whole screen22:09
Sc0rpiusin SSH, you can't just do that22:09
Sc0rpiusI can't carry a USB keyboard while I'm on the bike at the gym22:09
swordibuy a car22:09
Sc0rpius(that's when my heavy SSH occur)22:09
Sc0rpiusI said at the gym :P22:10
swordim(22:10
Sc0rpiusI can't survive excercising 40 minutes at the gym without my ssh22:10
Sc0rpiusanyway I know how a virtual keyboard sucks22:11
Sc0rpiusI have an Android tablet22:11
Sc0rpiusand it's pretty useful and handy while I don't have to type22:11
Sc0rpiusthen I want to reply an email22:11
Sc0rpiusand I usually ditch it and turn on my netbook22:11
swordimaybe NIN101 already told you, but he had to send his n900 to repair and he still doesn't got it back, some pity would be cool!22:11
swordiandroid sucks, but at least you don't need an activation key lol22:12
swordi(I'm talking about windows phone)22:12
Sc0rpiusAndroid sucks yes22:12
Sc0rpiusit's slow22:12
Sc0rpiusit's unstable22:12
Sc0rpiusand it closes applications when it feels like it22:12
swordibloat22:12
Sc0rpiusbut there is no Maemo/Meego tablet yet22:12
Sc0rpiusand I wanted a tablet for PDF reading at night22:12
Sc0rpiusthat could do some quick Internet browsing22:13
swordii wait for windows 8 tablets22:13
Sc0rpiusyeah that'd work too22:13
Sc0rpiusI'm not like most of people that will diss Windows the second they read the word22:13
Sc0rpiusI'd have to test it first, but I'd definitely give it a chance22:13
mariobSc0rpius: There's actually a MeeGo tablet, the WeTab22:14
swordi>WeTab22:15
Sc0rpiusand it works?22:15
swordinice thing, but it wasn't really successful22:15
Sc0rpiusthe problem is that we need Meego to be more mainstream22:15
mariobSc0rpius: It seems so... I haven't tried it myself22:15
Sc0rpiusunless there are at least 10 Meego devices in the market, Meego won't be successful22:16
mariobSc0rpius: I don't think it's your gym pal, 11" screen :)22:16
mariobSc0rpius: Acer will release the M500 tablet in Q4 (according to statements from Computex) so there's some devices coming up22:17
Sc0rpius11" is too big22:18
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Sc0rpiusI like the 7" the one I have is 7"22:18
mariobSc0rpius: Well, that's why you need a phys keyboard :)22:19
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RST38hmoo, konttori22:19
konttori_workhi22:19
konttori_workgood to be alive again.22:20
RST38hStill at Nokia?22:20
konttori_workWe have been pushing so so so hard for almost a year now.22:20
konttori_workyeah22:20
konttori_worknow, finally, taking our head from the trenches22:20
RST38h12 hours left? =)22:20
konttori_workless22:20
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konttori_workit's ab fab22:20
abkonttori_work, hey, don't highlight me :)22:21
RST38hyesssss22:21
konttori_workab: sorry22:21
abkonttori_work, I thought you wanted to say something22:21
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konttori_worknaah. Can't really talk too much before announcements, so just came to peek on what's going on and making sure I have connections set for the morning.22:22
abkonttori_work, there are still no links for streaming from nokiaconnection22:23
konttori_workotoh, it's really starting to be interesting when you guys get your hands on <snip>22:23
Sc0rpiuswell what's going on is that N9 doesn't have a physical keyboard and that sucks22:23
Sc0rpius:P22:23
konttori_workab: yeah, I've been wondering about that too22:23
abkonttori_work, now, my coughing and white nights will make me perfect target at 5am22:23
RST38hwell, it has been pretty dead here lately, with all the gloometc22:24
konttori_workSc0rpius: yeah, I hate it too. But we have really good vibra and the new input method framework turned out to work pretty well.22:24
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konttori_workShame it's still compositoted. Update releases should help on removing that22:24
Sc0rpiusbut how can I do heavy ssh with a virtual keyboard that takes the whole screen :'(22:24
abkonttori_work, btw, saw Maliit release today, good work22:24
konttori_workSc0rpius: it takes only 60% of screen22:25
Sc0rpiusin portrait mode22:25
Sc0rpiusbut the whole thing in landscape22:25
konttori_workand you can use it also in portrait22:25
RST38hupdate releases???22:25
konttori_workSc0rpius: no, it's 60% in landscape22:25
aband thanks for cyrillics update22:25
Sc0rpiusoh...22:25
Sc0rpiusinteresting22:25
konttori_workin portrait it's maybe 45%22:25
konttori_workWe are all the time using landscape vkb with terminal22:25
konttori_workit works pretty ok22:25
abRST38h, wanna bet when konttori_work will realise he'll get quoted on the TMO thread?22:25
konttori_workah, that thread is so spammed that nobody would even notice22:26
RST38hab:One tmothread? noooo22:26
* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to please, PLEASE, deliver tomorrow22:27
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RST38h"hanks to some Finnish readers who point out that it would be Lankku (plank in finnish)."22:28
RST38hIsn't it what one... walks?22:28
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mariobRST38h: Before you jump into the water to escape the burning platform :)22:29
RST38hmariob: and drown.22:29
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abRST38h, that is one use of planks :)22:30
mariobSomeone has some info about the leaked details about S40 getting 1Ghz? Would the sw be replaced by Linux and Qt? :)22:30
RST38hAh, some news sites are back to using "Maemo 6" moniker22:31
abmariob, you probably read too much ceoStephenElop on twitter22:31
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mariobab: lol22:31
abkonttori_work, but thanks for cyrillics fixes, btw22:31
konttori_workI vote also for maemo6 . But I think we will use meego. As said, no idea.22:31
konttori_workWe have been so in the trenches that we haven't been following much of marketing / political activities22:32
Jaffakonttori_work: Intel are the only stake in the TSG, and they're pissed off (well, a lot of the non-politically sensitive people are)22:32
Jaffakonttori_work: Although having it called MeeGo (or similar) would be a *massive* boon to the MeeGo project.22:32
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konttori_workab: ah, yeah, those were really requested internally.22:32
Jaffakonttori_work: After the conference, I said "MeeGo needs Harmattan a lot more than Harmattan needs MeeGo"22:32
Jaffakonttori_work: Glad to have your head in daylight for the first time in months? ;-)22:33
konttori_workFunnily, we had to throw away the "expert" designed layout guides for vkb and design our own with a few russian architects.22:33
abkonttori_work, I sat with a lady and got a Finnkino ticket22:33
konttori_workJaffa: for sure.22:33
konttori_workJaffa: meego is a peculiar beast. They are doing really good with set top boxes, tvs and car systems.22:34
konttori_workbut for those, intel only provides adaptation + qt + qml + some conveniences for the target segments22:34
konttori_workBut notebook really isn't flying, and phone segment needs a lot of work to do the necessary differentiation.22:35
abunexpected finding, eh? ;)22:35
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konttori_workWell, to me that the tv and car segments are doing so well is a surprise22:36
konttori_workotoh, doing a tv UI in qml is pretty freakin' sweet idea.22:37
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Jaffakonttori_work: Of no interest to consumers or app devs, tho.22:37
abperhaps they have smaller variety of UIs there22:37
konttori_worknot that much, no22:37
konttori_workwell, probably angry birds are welcome22:37
abangry birds on car22:37
abat driver's seat22:38
konttori_worklol22:38
konttori_workthere is mandatory disabling of front seat screens when car is moving22:38
konttori_workwell, the dashboard will obviously function, but that won't hopefully play angry birds22:39
RST38hDoing any UI in QML is a nice idea22:39
RST38hBut only if QML has got a small enough memory/cpu footprint22:39
ruskiekonttori_work, even for GPS?22:39
RST38h(i.e. comparable with Gtk+ or plain Qt)22:39
konttori_workruskie: for car entertainment22:40
konttori_workRST38h: javascript engine is the biggest cost at 4 MB. Rest is pretty thin22:40
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ruskieI prefer to use a camera to entertain me or just sleep22:40
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konttori_workand the qml2 of course moves the scene graph to GPU, so it's ultra efficient22:40
RST38hkonttori:how does it handle memory-unbounded nature of js?22:40
konttori_workRST38h: funny question. Not very well.22:40
konttori_workAnd in general, freeing memory is not qmls forte at the moment22:41
konttori_workwe are working on improving it, but really, qml has only matured to be production usable in march.22:41
konttori_workbefore that it has been having a lot of issues all over the place22:42
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abdalvik-like memory mapping across components and multiple instances is still missing22:42
aband that is pretty hard to introduce with current QML engine implementation22:43
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konttori_workab: and harder further still in the future.22:43
konttori_worksome memory mapping is already of course used, like sharing theme graphics over shared memory between processes22:44
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abkonttori_work, QML components compiled memory representation should be shared. Last time I looked at it, it was hopeless due to many pointered structures used22:45
konttori_workand qt mobility has a shared emory backend that makes data sharing very easy. But often needs c++ code.22:45
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abkonttori_work, that does not mean anything with QML engine22:45
konttori_worknope it doesn't22:46
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konttori_workbut then again, with c++ you can do all wonders you need22:46
konttori_workit's just not as convenient22:46
abkonttori_work, thing is, if you right now have 4MB overhead per engine + whatever structure is there when QML components are compiled in, you'll multiply that by number of apps running22:46
abeven though those apps will use the same components, components' code will be duplicated in memory22:46
konttori_workYeah. Not a problem.22:47
abit is a problem actually22:47
abyou haven't seen how heavy those structures within QML engine22:47
konttori_workIt's a waste for sure, but not something we could not live with22:47
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ShadowJKare you implying there'll be more than bare minimum ram? :-)22:51
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ShadowJKhey since keyboard is presumably missing now, is bluetooth keyboard support back? :D22:52
RST38hShadowJK: There will ALWAYS be bare minimum RAM!22:52
ShadowJKRST38h, not true, they made computers with Vista and 1G22:52
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javispedrothey also made system9 macs with 1G22:54
RST38hWas that enough?22:55
RST38hAnd for how long? =)22:55
javispedroit was way too much for showing the desktop, too low for anything else...22:56
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ShadowJKvista with 1g rapes the harddrive a day to produce a warning message saying windows has determined your computer needs more ram22:59
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konttori_workwe also have compressed ram swap. It's insanely fast solution for extending ram needs.23:01
RST38hAh, so compressed ram swap DOES HELP?23:02
konttori_workanyway, let's see what tomorrow brings. It should allow much more details and thus better discussion points23:02
RST38hShadowJK: See? I have been telling this for months :)23:02
RST38hkonttori: More important question: Are remaining Nokians going to be returning to maemo.org?23:03
konttori_workit's over 10x compared to one nand flash23:03
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ShadowJKno published code would be able to sanely swap on onenand anyway?23:03
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cehtehzram is the second coolest thing since sliced bread .. unfortunally no actual package for the n900 :/23:04
ioanhi23:04
ioandid you guys see this? http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/rumor-nokia-to-launch-n9-with-12-megapixel-camera-tomorrow/2569023:04
ioanis it for real?23:04
cehtehtomorrow will know23:04
Sc0rpiusit'll have the same N8 camera23:05
abRST38h, it does really help23:05
RST38hwill it have autofocus?23:05
GeneralAntillesTonight for the US.23:05
konttori_worktomorrow is real. details you need wait then23:05
GeneralAntillesRST38h, Engadget's spyshots say 8MP AF23:05
abRST38h, let's focus on tomorrow23:05
RST38hab: Someone should finally compile gzipped RAM swap for the Maemo5 and include it into CSSU :(23:05
RST38hGeneral: nice, meansbarcode recognition will work23:06
abRST38h, I think it is available at code.google.com23:06
konttori_workRST38h: ramswap would really like more ram than 256 n900 has.23:06
ShadowJKdoes it not create bigger fragmentation issues in backing swap over time, making "phone unusably slow after using fennec or 2 days uptime" syndrome worse?23:06
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RST38hkonttori: ah23:06
RST38hSo, 256 does not reach the break point23:06
konttori_workotoh, perhaps sacrificing say... 70 megs would make sense23:06
abShadowJK, kill all apps, turn it off, turn it on and it is ready for new endeavors23:07
RST38hab:there is a well known implementation and someone even experimented with it on N900, but nothing end-user-usable23:07
ShadowJKab: but then I lose stuff :)23:07
RST38hab:actually, there is an easier way to roll over swap :)23:07
abRST38h, I guess konttori_work is right about memory requirements23:07
konttori_workwe are putting 256 to ram swap if I remember correctly. Different configuration shave been tested and I think that was the one we stuck to23:08
* ShadowJK has two swap files on n900 and switches once swap starts fragmenting23:08
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JaffaRight, nearly bed time. See you at 2am UTC in ##nokiacnxn23:08
ShadowJK(which is ~700M of writes, or 5 minutes firefox) :-)23:08
konttori_workwe should have put the system partition to emmc for n900 and put 256 of swap to onenand there. That would have been really nice.23:09
* Jaffa nods23:09
ShadowJKhow big is erase block size on n900 onenand?23:09
ShadowJKit's significantly larger than 4k isn't it?23:10
konttori_workonenand has 4k afaik.23:10
RST38hkonttori: probably wouldn't solve the problem though23:10
konttori_workit's the movinand that has like... 512k.23:10
RST38hWell...23:10
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abkonttori_work,23:10
ShadowJKif it's actually 4k erase block then it'd been nice :-)23:10
Siceloj ##nokiacxn23:11
RST38hkonttori: Actually, decreasing swappiness to 30% makes things bearable, especially if you do not quit most often used apps (phone, messaging, and xterm for me)23:11
Siceloomg23:11
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ShadowJKWell.. I saw funny effects reducing swappiness.. device spent most of the time dropping executables and libraries from ram and rereading from emmc/onenand23:12
konttori_workwohoo! My JL headphones have arrived.23:12
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ShadowJKfor me it just acted as a knob deciding whether traffic was mostly in "si so" columns or "bi bo" columns of vmstat, and it seemed to accomplish stuff faster with higher swappiness, as long as swap wasn't fragmented... in which case it seemed like read-heavy setting became faster (but still slower than original situatuin)23:14
konttori_workhttp://wesc.com/product/39569  <--- I have been yearning for those ever since I saw somebody wearing them on a tram stop.23:15
RST38hlook regular enough23:15
konttori_workI really hope they sound as good as they look.23:15
konttori_workGoes really well with my white NXX23:15
hawai`iThey don't sound as good as they look, nor do they even really look good.23:15
RST38halthough extra points for being actualheadphones, not those little uncomfortable earplugs23:15
konttori_workdamn, now you ruined it for me ;)23:16
hawai`iI have a friend who bought a pair after I tried to talk him out ot WeSC.23:16
hawai`iThey're as shit as skull candy are.23:16
* ShadowJK prefers the earplugs :-)23:16
* RST38h got a BH-905, only to find out they tend to fall off the head23:16
ShadowJKI'd want some shure ones, but availability is challenging23:16
konttori_workhawai`i: really. Oh well, it's only money.23:16
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hawai`iI have the 905 and 504 on my desk and generally pick up the 504 most of the time.23:17
RST38hOther than that (and Maemo5 bug with receiving phone calls), perfect23:17
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konttori_workAnyway, now to bed. Let's see if I end up waking up at 5 AM23:18
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konttori_worknight all!23:18
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* ShadowJK wonders about the rumoured draconian no-rooting no-upgrading no-fun fud :-)23:19
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RST38hwe will see23:20
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hawai`iHalf and half. Can be enabled or disabled.23:21
smhardocScrutinizer, I checked the log for the date you gave me, but it does not seem to have any solution to 'unlock' the lock key? http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-17.log.html23:21
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* ShadowJK giggles23:22
RST38hsleep23:22
ShadowJKI see nokia's website is as hekpful as ever. I click "how to buy" link in MicroB on N900, and the site tells me to download Ovi Maps to get seller locations, and then microb went into minute long swapstorm :@23:23
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ShadowJK..followed by 32wd_to.. the firsrt I've ever experienced on that N900, had it 10 months :D23:25
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vi__how does one hire an n900?23:32
vi__with a mono-stilt23:34
vi__.23:34
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GeneralAntilles##nokiacnxn23:42
GeneralAntillesFools.23:42
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* Sicelo hides23:44
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javispedropft23:46
javispedroit was #nokcnxn23:46
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javispedroor at least, I was there for the most part of today...23:46
javispedronobody beingthere should have tipped me off23:47
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