IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-02-19

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GAN900lolcat, we're going around in circles here.00:03
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GAN900All digital sensors are capable of "seeing" IR.00:03
lolcatGAN900: Round round round like a record00:03
GAN900Most of them, through software or glass IR filters, are prevented from doing so.00:03
lolcatGAN900: Take your tv remote up against the camera on the N90000:03
lolcatYou will see it00:03
GAN900lolcat, OK, so the camera in question is the N900 camera.00:04
lolcatPut it against a canon camera00:04
ZogGi hope meego device is not last and it would have multitouch resistence scren =)00:04
GAN900lolcat, my 7D and S95 both have IR filters.00:04
mulleinwhat is a good external gps that i can connect to my n900?00:05
lolcatGAN900: I have newer found a camera that can't see iR00:05
lolcatmullein: It has an internal gps00:05
GAN900ZogG, I think resistive has been pretty well killed by Apple.00:05
mulleini know00:05
mulleinand when i was in the woods it didn't fix its location after hours00:05
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mulleini want something better for my hikes :)00:05
lolcatHow did apple kill resistive screens+00:05
lolcat?00:05
GAN900By making everybody think they want capacitive screens00:06
lcukwhich apple devices had resistive screens ?00:06
lolcatThe N900 has resistive screen?00:06
GAN900So all of the manufacturers are tripping all over themselves to release only capacitive devices.00:07
GAN900lcuk, Newton.00:07
lcukno, the N900 has a high precision screen.00:07
GAN900lolcat, yes, as did all other Maemo devices for it.00:07
lcukGAN900, lol00:07
lolcatWish I had a high precision thumb00:07
GAN900lcuk, which uses resistive touch technology.00:07
lcuklolcat, cut your nails right00:07
GAN900lcuk, you would LOVE the Newton.00:07
lcukGAN900, I know00:07
lcukGAN900, did you see, I changed my background picture http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg00:08
lcukis a photograph I took on holiday in England :)00:08
lolcatlcuk: Huh?00:08
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ZogGGAN900 until we didn't have multitouch resistence00:09
lcukits not the technology, its what you do with it.00:09
lcuks/its/it's/00:09
infobotlcuk meant: it's not the technology, its what you do with it.00:09
GAN900ZogG, Stantum has been available for a few years now, yet nobody has shipped a single product.00:09
lolcatCapacitive screens only can be touched with fingers?00:09
lcuk*warm fingers00:09
GAN900Or pork sausages.00:09
GAN900Have to be grade aa, though.00:10
lolcatThat is boring00:10
GAN900lcuk, that is a picture in need of cropping.00:10
ZogGlcuk nope, before we could have only fake software multitouch00:10
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ZogGGAN900 a lot of money?00:11
ZogGbut resistance is good cause it can know the strength and accuracy and how thin/wide line should be00:12
GAN900ZogG, no real market interest.00:12
ZogGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfh7WGNk4KU00:13
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alteregomaheshk: yup wassup?00:13
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alteregomaheshk: you usually measure performance with benchmarks00:16
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maheshkalterego, no tool/command to check check GPU utilization?00:16
alteregoI don't believe so, no.00:17
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alteregoYou mean like % utilisation?00:18
alteregoI'm not sure it even makes that much sense.00:18
alteregoBasically when it comes to gpu stuff, you try and maintain a certain framerate.00:19
alteregoSo if you're pushing it too hard you fps will drop, otherwise you should get a constant interval.00:20
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alteregoI suppose in theory, you could set up and render an empty scene and hammer it, do as many buffer swaps you can and measure the performance, then as you add polygons or enable multisampling, you can use the frame drops to calculate a pseudo percentage.00:23
alteregoBut I'm still not sure that makes much sense :)00:23
maheshktrue, actually I disabled some accelerated compositing features in my video player and wanted to see if its still using GPU00:25
maheshkeven if not exact % but just to make sure00:25
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maheshkalterego, I guess it is still using GPU because my CPU doesnt go beyond 30% :)00:28
alteregomaheshk: it will use the gpu if you're telling it to. How are you rendering your video?00:28
maheshkqgraphicscene + qvideoitem00:29
maheshkthats all I care about.. using qtmobility apis basically00:29
alteregoWith a QGLWidget as the viewport?00:29
maheshkso it can either go with raptor or openGL in these case00:29
maheshknot sure about QGLWidget though.. any easy way? I think i can GDB on device right? as long as i have debug binaries00:30
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alteregoWell, you create a QGraphicsView, you setScene(scene) then you setViewport(new QGLWidget)00:31
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alteregoThat's the short version,you obviously need to do it properly ;)00:32
alteregoThere's a nice example of it in the docs about the Qt Graphics Framework.00:33
trumeeanybody using lxp wifi drivers? Is it possible to get Fapman working with his updated osso-wlan package?00:33
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alteregoAnyhow, bed time. g'night folks.00:40
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kaiehi. "nokia n900 german version", do I need "global" firmware? (out of "usa", "middle east+africa", "uk", "global")00:41
psycho_oreosyes]00:41
kaiethx00:42
psycho_oreoskeine problem00:42
kaie:)00:42
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* alterego would really like OpenCL support for the pvr sgx in the N90000:45
* alterego sighs, doesn't look likely,00:47
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* alterego goes back to dreaming of GPU accelerated FFTs and facial recognition algorithms.00:47
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alteregoCould probably do it in a fragment shader, oh well.00:49
* alterego zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZ00:49
MohammadAGnight alterego00:50
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Pillumanyone here?01:23
OkropNick:)01:23
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Pillumare we able to develop n900 widgets only with qt creator01:24
Pillumso without scratchbox?01:24
OkropNickI don't know01:24
OkropNickI'm just N900 owner01:25
Pillumlol01:25
OkropNick:)01:25
Pillumso,01:26
Pillumhttp://maemo.org/static/5/5465fe5633bf11deb806433817206cf16cf1_modest-beta.png01:26
Pillumdo you know this theme?01:26
OkropNickbut probably it's possible, QT belongs to Nokia01:26
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Pillumyeah, but the official maemo 5 sdk is scratchbox01:27
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OkropNickSorry, I'm just PHP coder :|01:27
OkropNickI'm here mostly to "listening", not to speak01:29
Pillum:)01:29
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RaveniquEHello! :)01:35
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RaveniquEanybody alive here?01:35
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OkropNickno, I'm just a common  bot...01:36
RaveniquEcool. I need some help for playing videos, here I wrote it : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7006601:37
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OkropNickSorry, I read your post, but I don't know how to help you. I'm going to sleep. Good Luck!01:40
nox-maybe try mplayer?01:41
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RaveniquEI did :)01:52
RaveniquEas I told in topic, tried mplayer with KMPlayer, but it throws me up to KMlayer menu after a few secs01:52
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psycho_oreosthere's also smplayer in the repos01:55
RaveniquEI will try it, but main problem is default media player can't play even default videos!01:57
RaveniquE(I mean the videos that comes with N900)01:57
nox-huh01:57
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psycho_oreosthat could be an issue with the extra-decoders that you have installed, something didn't work out right. The default media player doesn't depend on mplayer01:58
RaveniquEI think so01:58
RaveniquEbut, is there a code to check my codecs are fine?01:59
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psycho_oreosdpkg -l extra-decoders ?02:00
psycho_oreosnah its called decoders-support02:01
RaveniquEI uninstalled it02:01
RaveniquEshould I reinstall it?02:01
RaveniquEseems like it corrupted my main codecs on N90002:02
psycho_oreosmm hard to say, might be a good idea02:02
RaveniquEwill try asap, a break for WC lol02:02
psycho_oreosthe decoders-support package doesn't really add any extra decoders, according to the list of files provided by that package, it just adds an xml file detailing the extra extensions and their specific descriptors02:06
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RaveniquEwill try it anyway..02:10
RaveniquEit needs 3,7 Mb though02:11
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psycho_oreosactually my bad, it depends on a whole bunch of other gstreamer plugins02:13
RaveniquEok, done installing, let's check02:13
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RaveniquEnothing changed02:14
RaveniquEwhere is the codecs in N900?02:14
RaveniquE*are02:15
alteregoI didn't think mplayer used gst ...02:15
* alterego wanders off again02:15
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psycho_oreososso media player uses gst, mplayer has its own library02:16
psycho_oreosmight be /usr/lib/gstreamer0.10/02:17
RaveniquEyeah, there're tons of files like libgstnokiamp3dec.so02:19
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psycho_oreos166 files :)02:20
RaveniquEhow to check the number with filebox?02:20
psycho_oreosI don't use filebox, I use ssh :) ls -l| wc -l02:21
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psycho_oreosactually I made some mistakes though with the counting of files, its 164 because I did ls -al which includes the directories . and .. which are irrelevant02:21
RaveniquEwhat is the size of libgstavi.so?02:23
RaveniquEmine is 71.13kb02:23
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psycho_oreos72k02:23
psycho_oreoss/k/K/02:24
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RaveniquEhm.. seems size is ok too02:24
psycho_oreoscomparing by size doesn't really help, especially it might even be a few bytes off and yet the number is still rounded off02:26
psycho_oreosI can't remember what was needed to be done when installing decoders-support, I do recall trackerd was needed to be restarted a few times.02:27
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sleepeeso i'm having some trouble updating my n900 to pr 1.3.  i can't do ota update and nokia software updater/ovi suite doesn't install on any OS i have.  am i out of luck?02:28
RaveniquEcan you check the version of mafw-gst-renderer version on your device?02:29
RaveniquEno, you should try flasher02:29
RaveniquEwhat is your operating system?02:29
psycho_oreos20.2010.36-202:29
RaveniquEsleepee : http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher02:30
sleepeei have fedora/win2K3 on my desktop and mint/virus-ridden win7 on my laptop.02:30
psycho_oreosoops02:30
RaveniquEpsycho_oreos : I need mafw-gst-renderer version :)02:30
RaveniquEin fapman02:30
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psycho_oreosRaveniquE, 0.3.2010.24-1+0m502:31
sleepeethanks RaveniquE.  i'll read that and see what i can do..02:31
RaveniquEsleepee : check http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher , it is the healtiest way to flash02:31
RaveniquEnevermind :)02:31
psycho_oreosand I used dpkg -l for that :)02:31
RaveniquEgood luck :)02:31
RaveniquEfine, I have same version02:31
RaveniquEshould I delete it and somehow install it again?02:32
psycho_oreossleepee, I think using fapman will do something equivalent of osso HAM's OTA02:32
psycho_oreosRaveniquE, hmm hard to say, what I would try doing instead of restarting all over again is to try rebooting the device02:32
sleepeeyou lost me. lol.  what is osso HAM's OTA?02:33
psycho_oreossleepee, osso is the packages that nokia usually describes their built-in software, HAM is hildon application manager, OTA is over the air :p02:33
psycho_oreosI can't quite remember what was the acronym for osso02:34
RaveniquEI couldn't count how many times that I rebooted my device =)02:34
sleepeeohhh lol!!  i got it now... that was a lot of acronyms.02:34
psycho_oreosRaveniquE, after you did the reinstallation of decoders-support?02:34
RaveniquEyeah.02:34
sleepeeso i can use fapman to do an ota update?02:36
psycho_oreosRaveniquE, something is broken/screwed up somewhere :) the easiest way would be to resetup, the alternative (and potentially harder) way is to try and trace down the actual problem. I have lots of potential pointers but no actual direct way of finding out the exact errors02:36
RaveniquEthings start to change, the one lasts 2.30 was able to play, the one lasts 1.15 cannot, my movie didn't give any warning but didn't play either, gone back to menu02:36
RaveniquEwill dig, wait02:36
psycho_oreossleepee, not quite but something similar in a way. Let me give you what happened in my case. I flashed my device to pr1.3 without using OTA and when it came to installing a fair few packages via fapman, the total installation required downloading something like 200+ files which was far more than the packages I have selected to install02:37
RaveniquEI saw green screen on 2.30 one, but paused it quickly to see if others are OK too, now rechecking the 2.30 one and can't play. -.-02:38
RaveniquEDAMN!02:38
psycho_oreosRaveniquE, that reminds me, I have a screencap recording I did on my n900 which was meant to be 0.50 but it only played a for a few seconds (skipping like about 100,000 frames) before reaching to the end02:38
RaveniquEit gave codec not supported error, again.02:38
psycho_oreosactually that 100,000 frames was a bit of exaggeration, but it was maybe around the 5,000 frames or so mark02:39
sleepeewell that's not a very good package manager then...02:40
RaveniquEfapman rocks, IMO.02:40
RaveniquErebooted, will recheck02:41
psycho_oreossleepee, its alot faster than HAM to say the least :)02:41
sleepeewell that's true.. ham is pretty frickin slow..02:41
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psycho_oreosHAM is even more slower when you enable red pill mode and checked a few boxes such as showing all packages and magic system packages02:42
RaveniquEnah. I saw green screen at the beginning of the video (2.30) then screen gone black02:42
RaveniquEwaited a few seconds, no sound, no screen, and I'm at  menu again.02:43
sleepeeyea, and having more than 2 or 3 repos makes it crawl...02:43
psycho_oreosfapman doesn't do that at all, with the equivalent amount of repos I have in both HAM and fapman, fapman is at least 3x faster02:44
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RaveniquE-.-02:45
RaveniquEI don't want to reflash just because of vid's !02:45
sleepeei think im going to see if i can install this fapman first02:46
RaveniquEit was the first time that I wanted to watch something though02:46
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psycho_oreoswell the alternative way is to try and trace down the source of the issue, it could be a failed package, something that may have been shown in syslog (which needs to be installed separately) or running media-player via console and seeing if there's any useful outputted messages for example02:49
RaveniquEwell, I'm all ears.02:49
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RaveniquEhow to check packages?02:50
sleepeedammit.. i can't install faster application manager..  i think i need to update maemo first.. grr02:54
RaveniquEI must quit now, thanks psycho for your try =)02:56
RaveniquEgnight everybody02:56
sleepeebye and goodluc02:56
sleepeegood luck*02:56
RaveniquEu too :)02:56
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psycho_oreosback in a bad timing, ahh well02:58
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thomasjfoxdoes anyone know how many pixels the top status bar takes up?03:09
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie: I'm marginally faster on Dvorak, with significantly less wrist and hand strain.03:42
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: now you just need to adopt Tonal too :D03:48
chxI use a vertical keyboard :)03:49
luke-jrI use a Dvorak-Tonal keyboard03:51
luke-jrhttp://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/keyboard/dvorak-tonal.png03:51
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chxluke-jr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bevanr/3899004832/ my Kinesis04:04
luke-jrugly04:05
chxyes but useful04:06
chxif you mean me, well, too bad :)04:06
lcukchx, gorilla arm needed04:06
chxwhy...??04:07
lcukI cannot imagine holding up arms like that to type all day04:07
chxwell this was at a conference04:07
chxnormally you have a chair with an armrest.04:07
chxso you are actually resting your hand all day long04:07
chxyour arm at least04:07
psycho_oreosfor arms to be held that high? what about elbows? wouldn04:08
psycho_oreoswouldn't they get sore? :p04:08
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lcukchx, it also blocks easy access to touchscreens on the device infront of you04:10
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chxtouchscreens. ahem.04:12
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Sc0rpiushehe I didn't see the pic in the topic till now04:54
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DocScrutinizeryesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-gTobCJHs&NR=1&feature=fvwp  --- tomorrow: http://nokiapland.com/05:24
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DocScrutinizerbtw this site somewhat changed in a strange way :-P http://www.nokiaplanb.com05:28
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lolcatDocScrutinizer: It is twitter?!05:32
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lolcatWhat is nokia plan b?05:32
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.finanzen.net/chart/Nokia05:33
lucentit's an abortion pill for all the innovation that's been growing inside of R&D belly the last 5 years at Nokia company05:33
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comawhiteis there an aeroplane mode for the N900?05:40
DocScrutinizeryes05:41
jonwilyes there is05:41
comawhitehow do I enable it?05:42
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DocScrutinizerpondering this http://press.nokia.com/2008/02/25/nokia-and-university-of-cambridge-launch-the-morph-a-nanotechnology-concept-device/ is almost exactly 3 years old now, and realizing where we are now, I guess http://nokiapland.com/ is somewhat overoptimistic...05:43
lolcatBy signing up for a free Launchpad account – which normally cost €300 a year – developers will get free admission to the next Nokia World/Nokia Developer Summit event, a free Nokia E7 device, a free Nokia Windows Phone 7 device (as soon as it becomes available) and free tech support for three months.05:43
lolcatCan I run maemo on an E7?05:43
lolcatMeego maybe?05:44
DocScrutinizerpfff05:44
comawhitewell if you sign up right now, do you still get that offer?05:44
lolcatThats what I am hoping for05:45
comawhiteme too05:45
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lolcatI need a second and a third phhone05:45
comawhiteI'd love to have a Symbian phone05:45
comawhitemy n900 is fucked up05:45
lolcatIt is written yesterday05:45
comawhitestupid usb port05:45
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comawhiteI'd take a WP7 if it was given to me for free05:46
comawhiteotherwise I won't buy one05:46
lolcatYEah, I have a launchpad account :D05:47
comawhitehow do you know?05:47
lolcatI managed to log in05:48
lolcatBut I don't understand it05:48
lolcatDoh, wrong launchpad :S05:49
lolcatDo you think I can still register and get it?05:50
comawhiteI just did =\05:50
comawhiteI hope so05:50
lolcatPrimary role, Developer05:50
lolcatOr crative05:50
lolcatI am not sure :S05:50
comawhitelolcat, sign up then email saying you never got the email =\05:51
lolcatI am now setting up a developer profile05:53
lolcateverything in the email is in the webpage05:53
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lolcatcomawhite: Brief account description?05:54
comawhitelolcat, well apparently, you sign up, then you ask for request to join the developer programme05:54
comawhitelolcat, I put self developer05:55
comawhite=\05:55
comawhiteI didn't know what to put there05:55
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comawhitelolcat, after you sign up, you relogin, then click the Forum.Nokia logo and go to My Programs, click it, then apply for another program, click it, then go to "Go to Form Nokia Launchpad homepage (for member individuals only)05:57
comawhitethen you tell them why you should get accepted05:57
comawhiteI hope I can still get those phones :(05:57
lolcatLaunchpad for induviduals?05:57
lolcatIs that the rigth page?05:58
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comawhitehttp://www.forum.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/05:58
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pupnikIControlpad now available for gaming with your cellphone - very cool indie project - http://icontrolpad.com/  http://www.gp2x.de/shop/index.php/cPath/4506:00
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comawhitepupnik, nice06:01
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comawhitepupnik, too bad it's only for iPhone06:01
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pupnikcomawhite: not hard to add padding for other devices06:01
pupnikbut they don't have the resources to make moulds for everything06:02
comawhiteokay I see06:02
comawhitenow06:02
lolcatI think my application will be declined I suck at this -.-"06:02
comawhiteget to play Final Fantasy 7 on PSX emulator06:03
pupnikyeah with decent controls for e.g.06:03
comawhitelolcat, good luck mate06:03
* DocScrutinizer2 burps06:03
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DocScrutinizernot going to push up their developers-count just to get a crappy winphone06:04
lolcatcomawhite: You too06:04
comawhite:)06:04
DocScrutinizerhell, I got some 40 phones here, they can keep theirs06:05
comawhiteif I get it, I'm throwing my N900 away06:05
lolcatcomawhite: Throw it in my direction will you? :P06:05
comawhitelolcat, give me $250?06:05
comawhiteor $20006:05
DocScrutinizerpffff06:05
lolcatHow broke is it?06:05
comawhiteit works perfectly, except the usb port06:06
DocScrutinizerhow broke is he?06:06
lolcatSo it can't charge?06:06
comawhiteI have to use ssh to send it files06:06
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comawhitebut it comes with a usb/wall charger in 1, 2 batteries, original everything, plus it already has skin protections on it06:06
lolcatI first have to see what I can do with the Windows Mobile and if I got it06:07
DocScrutinizeromfg, skin protection ;-D06:07
comawhitelolcat, I heard I can still send it to Nokia and get it fixed06:07
lolcatcomawhite: Oo, if I don't get this deal, I migth go for it. What part of the earth are you on?06:07
comawhitejust too lazy06:07
comawhitelolcat, US06:07
lolcatcomawhite: I have a 5 year warranty on mine, it is about 4 years old now06:08
lolcatOr less than that06:08
comawhiteIt's never been dropped :)06:08
lolcatSo if it is caused by normal usage I can return it...06:08
lolcatOh, crap, your keyboard is probably not noridic?06:08
comawhiteI'll only sell it if I get those 2 phones for free06:08
comawhiteelse I need it06:08
lolcatThen you should hope you apply bether than me06:09
lolcatI said I was writing social geotaggin software, and a social website xD06:09
comawhiteI hope I get accepted and still get a chance at the phone06:09
lolcatWith: "exciting new features I can't disclose here" :P06:09
* DocScrutinizer sighs06:09
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comawhitelolcat, what new features?06:10
lolcatI didn't specify06:10
comawhitewait I signed a NDA with Nokia o_O06:10
lolcatTrade secrets, can't tell nokia about them06:10
lolcatNDA?06:11
psycho_oreosnon disclosure agreement06:11
comawhiteNon Disclosure Agreement06:11
lolcatI guess I did too then?06:11
DocScrutinizermpfffffffff sigh06:11
lolcatAs long as your irc username is diffrent06:12
comawhitelolcat, just go to your profile, on the right side, developer programme, then at the very bottom you will see NDA06:13
lolcatOh, this migth be the kind of place nokia hangs out?06:13
comawhiteTitleDateApprover06:13
comawhiteNDA19-Feb-201106:13
DocScrutinizerwait, weren't you the guy that bragged with uploading lxp's injection drivers to rapidshare?06:15
comawhiteme?06:15
lolcatI can't see it06:15
lolcatBut in my defence Id say I was drunk and not legaly fit to make a legal agreement06:16
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comawhiteI probably won't get the phone since I only signed up after it was announced06:16
DocScrutinizercomawhite: obviously not you06:16
lolcatBut it is like the day after06:17
comawhiteyeah06:17
lolcatcomawhite: To assist you with your development activities in the near-term, we will ship one free Nokia E7 device to all program members. Additionally, we will send to you one free Nokia WP7 device, as soon as it becomes available.06:17
lolcatMaybe we get the WP7 when it becomes available?06:17
pupniki hope everyone who gets a winphone does nothing to develop for it06:17
lolcatI migth sell mine and get a proper phone06:18
comawhitepupnik, I'm not going to be arsed about it, but if I get a fucking phone for free, why bitch about it? :P06:18
DocScrutinizerpupnik: look at lolcat - odds are exceptionally good exactly this will happen06:18
comawhiteI'll develop for it06:18
lolcatI could maybe write a forkbomb for it06:18
DocScrutinizeror upload to rapidshare06:19
DocScrutinizer:-P06:19
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lolcatIf I get a free phone I will see if it has enough battery time to be a secondary phone06:19
DocScrutinizerlolcat: what makes you think we get any wiser with you telling us about that?06:19
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lolcatNo idea06:20
lolcatA nokia 1616 is what I will get I think06:22
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Termanamorning07:47
Ken-YoungGood morning07:47
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iluminator101is there a address book plug in for contacts for n90008:37
iluminator101or an address book app for n900 that you guys suggest08:38
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pupnikiluminator101: can you add fields to the contacts?09:04
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sid_iluminator10109:22
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ruskiehttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Calao-Systems-Snowball/09:24
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pupnikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Trak   The first computer i ever 'programmed' ;P11:12
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alteregopupnik: http://www.nikbull.co.uk/Angeldust/Acorn_files/acorn_electron.jpg11:40
alteregoMy first11:40
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pupniknice alterego11:45
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mavhkI still need an Atom and a A540 for my collection12:10
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niala_hello13:05
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niala_question: a second hand n900 for 180€ is good?13:08
pupnikniala_: are you bidding on the one ending in 2 hours?13:08
pupnikmedian used price in .de is 250 euro13:09
niala_for new?13:09
pupnikused13:09
niala_yes, that's what I see on the internet13:10
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pupnikseller phanter01phanter?13:11
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niala_something to be tested first ?13:14
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pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-nMr886E44&feature=youtube_gdata   google real-time speech translation for android13:25
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RST38hUS military wants software and services to manage upwards of 500 fake online personas designed to interact with social media, presumably including such sites as Facebook and Twitter.13:31
RobbieThe1stCool. Now when people say stuff we don't like, we can just say their shills for the US Military!13:33
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pupnikthe 'eyes-free' GUI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS-ju61vOQw&feature=youtube_gdata13:34
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TermanaRST38h, OH MY LORD! Watson and now this. We are being taken over by computers I tells ya!!!11!!13:36
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ZogGsony failing agaibn15:32
ZogGlol15:32
ZogGniow not only you can be using psn without any ban, you can ban yourself15:32
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DocScrutinizermooo15:33
* leafpad pats DocScrutinizer15:34
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leafpad:o is konversation available for n900?15:34
DocScrutinizerdunno if somebody went crazy and compiled it, I heard KDE exists15:35
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Jadei just saw that they added opengl ES support for KWin15:35
Jadeand got it to run on n90015:36
Jadelet me see if i can find the link again15:36
Jadehttp://dot.kde.org/2011/02/18/kwin-embraces-new-platforms-opengl-es-20-support15:36
Jadehere15:36
leafpadon http://konversation.kde.org/ they say they have plans for it15:36
leafpadi dont know how old that line is!15:36
leafpad-_-15:36
Jadeit would be pretty cool to have KDE running on the n90015:36
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leafpadwont it be very very slow :o ?15:37
leafpadok, i'm about to ask a dumb question !15:37
Jadeyeah it might be slow15:37
DocScrutinizerwill take ages to startup, but then...15:37
leafpadwhats the difference between something called *scratchbox* and Nokia Qt SDK for n900? Do they install seperately?15:38
DocScrutinizerI don't thing switching tasks etc is _much_ slower15:38
DocScrutinizerthink*15:38
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ZogGJade no it wouldn't =)15:39
Jadeit would be cool if it wasnt15:40
Jadekde is pretty fun15:40
DocScrutinizerkde4 is a PITA15:40
Jadewe could switch from hildon to kde entirely15:40
DocScrutinizerKDE has no dialer15:41
Jadedamn15:41
DocScrutinizerwell, you can run gnome apps under KDE, but I doubt there's a hildon compatibility layer15:43
DocScrutinizerand last 3 or so days resulted in another bottom line of "according to our research a community driven compatible dialer is almost impossible to implement"15:44
Jaffaleafpad: Scratchbox is a low-level, Linux-only tool you can use for application or platform development in a number of technologies. Qt SDK runs on multiple platforms and allows you to build Qt applications for Maemo15:45
lcukDocScrutinizer, for maemo you mean.  I was under the impression its entirely possible when connected via ofono on MeeGo15:46
lcuk(infact, the dialer is totally open source over there)15:46
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ack15:46
DocScrutinizernevertheless i'm sure it is by no metrics "compatible" as in "feature complete"15:47
lcukwell I guess at some point it has to be.15:47
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DocScrutinizerhaha15:47
lcukespecially since as one of the reference apps - it should adhere to the reference specs15:47
DocScrutinizerwhich friggin reference specs? are they talking about interaction between thermal management, dialer, and 911-call emergency mode - just to name one example15:48
ZogGkde is huge monster that we don;t need15:48
ZogGQt is fun, kde is no-go for mobile with all it's libs15:49
ZogGand fancy not needed stuff15:49
leafpadJaffa: when apps need to be ported, or a general linux source needs to be compiled, scratchbox will be needed for it? Or can it be done in the qt sdk?15:49
lcukDocScrutinizer, why don't you ask?  http://wiki.meego.com/Project/Dialer15:49
lcukhave you tested it to see how it would handle those things15:49
Jaffaleafpad: Depends on the source15:49
DocScrutinizerbecause I don't really care about meego anymore, until either they become more community-friendly or get muuuuuch better documentation about design rationale15:50
leafpadhmm15:50
DocScrutinizerlcuk: and NO, I WON'T test overheating my N900 and then call 911 to see if it works15:51
DocScrutinizertbh I doubt it's correctly implemented in maemo15:51
lcukI actually meant to actually communicate with the devs and discuss your obviously important topics with people15:52
DocScrutinizertzzz you're the only one who thinks they are important15:52
lcukand if the community is wrong, it is upto members of the community to fix that15:52
lcuk?15:53
DocScrutinizermeego got designed by gods, and those don't explain themselves nor are they listening to critics15:53
leafpadJaffa: can you give me the link to installing scratchbox?15:54
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lcukleafpad, http://maemo.org/development/15:55
lcukincludes documentation and installers and lots of info15:55
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Xax21hi15:58
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NIN101Shouldn't this channel be +n?16:02
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* DocScrutinizer mumbles ²¼¼&%##!!@&§©Ŋ€‘ about discussing design concepts of a stillborn OS with devels who know just 2 answers: "is it upstream?" (not even an answer!) and "you're free to send patches"16:03
DocScrutinizerNIN101: why?16:05
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NIN101flooding.16:05
JaffaNot generally a problem.16:05
divanGuys, does anyone know how to create  QPushButtons with the same style as in default Maemo Mediaplayer? I know I can do this via css by myself, trying to copy it's look and feel, but I don't want to do guesswork if there are some common methods for that.16:06
Jaffadivan: Look at the Open Media Player?16:07
alteregodivan: which buttons?16:07
JaffaA reimplementation of Media Player in Qt... ;-)16:07
divanAnd I believe it's look and feel can be extracted from current Maemo theme, no?16:07
divanalterego, when you open Media Player on N900 you see 4 buttons.16:07
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DocScrutinizerwell, I can see +n making sense16:07
divanJade, hmm thanks. I'll take a look now.16:07
divanIs it in repos?16:08
Jaffadivan: Not yet16:08
JaffaMohammadAG or alterego can point you at the gitorious link16:08
Jaffa(it's not in the topic at #maemo-foss)16:08
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DocScrutinizeranybody still with us?16:10
DocScrutinizer~botsnack16:10
infobot:), DocScrutinizer16:10
DocScrutinizerNIN101: better?16:10
ruskielol16:10
divanJaffa, thanks, I've found: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=2616:11
NIN101lol Doc.16:11
Jadedivan, i dont think so16:11
Jadeit's very recent and experimental16:11
DocScrutinizerwhy lol?16:11
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I don't know how you can call MeeGo stillborn, it will continue to have Intels support and Nokia haven't left it yet.16:11
Jadei think it's only people on kde's side playing around for now16:11
DocScrutinizeralterego: I'm just quoting much better guys16:12
alteregoSure ..16:12
alteregoWho?16:12
alteregoabill_uk?16:12
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Jaffaalterego: There's no major CE manufacturer who is as committed to it as Nokia were; and they'll treat their MeeGo device - at a corporate level - even more of an R&D project than the 770 ever was.16:12
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Jaffaalterego: Intel are committed to shifting chips. Android, Windows and MeeGo all further that aim. Hell, so does Mac OS X and - I'm sure they'd love to get it - iOS16:13
DocScrutinizerUnless there's a change in Nokia's leadership (or at least Nokia's leadership's mind), the MeeGo device from Nokia will be stillborn.  http://www.mwkn.net/2011/07/front.html16:13
JaffaDon't trust what you read on the Internet ;-)16:14
alteregoIt will with that attitude :P16:14
JaffaIt carefully says "the MeeGo device from *Nokia*".16:14
divanJade, anyway the interface is just the same and I've found the answer already.16:15
JaffaSomeone else (although who, I've no idea) could make MeeGo a core part of their mobile strategy (Samsung or HP being the best options, but both are better served currently by more finished OSes) and release a MeeGo device which *wasn't* stillborn.16:15
DocScrutinizerand my rant was clearly related to dialer, which for sure is a useless piece of cruft for tablet UX16:15
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DocScrutinizerjust as whole meego core is a useless piece of crap for handsets, as long as development is done in a tablet/laptop centric way16:18
alteregoO_o16:18
alteregoWhere are you getting this information?16:18
alteregoWho says handset is not being developed?16:19
alteregoIt's being developed harder than netbook and tablet.16:19
DocScrutinizerfrom the few answers the gods of meego gave to me, before they told me to piss off16:19
JaffaAnd more openly16:19
alteregoExactly.16:19
Jaffaalterego: Although you'll ship a decent, well supported device with it?16:19
alteregoDocScrutinizer: what gods?16:19
DocScrutinizeralterego: I guess there's a chanlog in #meego and #meego-arm16:20
alteregoOkay, so you can't quote your sources, fine ..16:20
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DocScrutinizerfor sure there's a good one for this chan16:20
alteregoAnyway, if we're lucky, we may be able to stick MeeGo on the first WP7 phone, as apparently it was supposed to be the first MeeGo device.16:21
alteregoBootloader depending of course.16:22
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Jaffaalterego: Really? The *first* MeeGo device, i.e. the OMAP36[34]0-based RM-680?16:22
* Jaffa heard mention - but not from a direct source - that the WP7 phone won't be out until the end of the year - earliest?16:22
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DocScrutinizerlol16:23
alteregoJaffa: they were aiming for May afair16:23
alteregoBut this may have changed, that info is based on the annoucement last week ..16:23
Jaffaalterego: URL?16:23
alteregoWP7 isn't ready16:23
DocScrutinizerquite for some reason, as wincrap hw actually is the only hw that's tailored to fit the OS, not the other way round16:23
piggzalterego: probably wont be ready until there is a linux compiler :)16:23
alteregoDoesn't do multicore, and it lacks a lot of stuff that Nokia will get ass raped for just like the did for the N90016:23
* Jaffa 's been really spoilt by the N900's multitasking. If the Palm Pre wasn't so weird looking, and was available cheaply in the UK, it might be an option.16:24
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I'm just going by what a Nokian told me.16:24
DocScrutinizerwell, apple might apply for that title as well16:24
* Jaffa plans on sticking with his N900 for a while. Just some optimisations and some CSSU love to make it excellent.16:24
* Jaffa 'd love some low-level hacker to have a go optimising some low-level stuff16:24
alteregoJaffa: me too, luckily enough I've got two now, one for MeeGo dev and one with Maemo that is my main handset.16:25
alteregoWhat I'd like to see is a new maemo build, based on MeeGo closed components with hardfp and neon optimizations.16:25
alteregoI don't think I'll ever have the time to do that though :)16:25
Jaffaalterego: What's the performance like of MeeGo for N900 like now?16:25
alteregoJaffa: the UI is pretty responsive now, app startup times are a bit rubbish.16:26
alteregofennec takes about 10 seconds to startup16:26
DocScrutinizerJaffa: there are some good low level hackers around :-D16:27
alteregohardfp & neon will be with us in a week or two hopefully which should push the performance up substantially.16:27
alteregoAlso, this is my experience on my device which runs off of a class 4 micro sd card16:28
pupnikinteresting... based on meego closed components?  like what for e.g.?16:28
DocScrutinizeralterego: Jaffa: marginals. how is standby time? that's the question you need to ask. Also what's resume time, what's the possible resume sources?16:29
alteregopupnik: kernel (they have the latest) with their bme, and their sgx16:29
alteregoDocScrutinizer: rubbish, pm is still being integrated for 1.2 at the moment.16:29
pupnikahh got it16:29
DocScrutinizerMUHAHAHAHA16:29
DocScrutinizeralterego: evidently you need no chanlogs, you brought it to the point by your own statement right now16:30
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ruskiekernel would be nice... beyond that... everything else leave it more or less like it is...16:31
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DocScrutinizerthere are people already porting newest upstream kernel for N900, in a way more likely to fit N900's needs than what meego-arm does16:32
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alteregoruskie: the point is, new kernel means those components (and others) need to be updated :P16:33
DocScrutinizeras those people understood you can't always ask "is it upstream?" - they appreciate there might be drivers and kernel tweaks tailored to fit this particular hw platform16:34
alteregoYou're such a whiner :P16:34
DocScrutinizerand you aren't really helpful for a general discussion with that statement16:35
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: considering all you say is "is it upstream?" you're not particularly helpful either.16:36
alteregoYou've been bitching about that for about 8 months now.16:36
alteregoIn that time you could have got your patches accepted.16:36
DocScrutinizerBS, I'm not 'saying' that, I'm quoting it16:36
DocScrutinizeralterego: BS, I simply refuse to create patches16:37
alteregom'hmm16:37
DocScrutinizerand yes, I object to meego devs about that notion that I should STFU if I don't16:37
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DocScrutinizermy patch for sensorfw would remove all files and rename the project16:38
alteregoI just think you're wasting a lot of energy and time constantly bitching about how bad MeeGo is.16:38
DocScrutinizerso now you see what's that with gods at meego16:38
DocScrutinizerI think *you* waste more time arguing with me about it16:39
alteregoI'm younger, I've got more time to waste :P16:39
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DocScrutinizerI'm immortal (as somebody found out yesterday I'm actually father of skynet) - I got all the time of the world bitching about meego and explaining why it never will get mature. It has severe congenital defects16:41
alteregoWell, I hope you eat your words :P16:42
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DocScrutinizerI explained my objections in gory detail on meego several times. Answer always been "is it upstream?" and "send patches" - your fault if you're such an arrogant crowd that doesn't want to listen or discuss16:43
alteregom'hmm, I'm listening, and I'm discussing16:44
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alteregoAnd I would like to see your contribution.16:44
alteregoEven if it's just a bug report to get someone else to do it.16:45
DocScrutinizerI'm bored to explain same old shit esp to you over and over again16:45
alteregom'hmm, fair enough16:45
DocScrutinizeryou were online when I elaborated on particular issues several times16:46
DocScrutinizerfor the rest ask stskeeps and lcuk16:46
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DocScrutinizerif you need a few searchstrings to skim the chanlogs: sensorfw, lis302, irq-centric design, fso, securityfw - the latter making meego a totally unappealing domain to me, as it brings us fritz chip and DRM linux flavour, and either is implemented in such a way that it doesn't serve its purpose, or deprives users of their root permissions on *_the_system_they_have_to_use_*, or even both.16:59
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* noobmonk3y blinks17:02
noobmonk3yhmmm anyone know rtcom-messaging would be taking aapx 85-99% of my n900's cpu :(17:02
noobmonk3yBasically , the phone/messaging part is buggered and has been for weeks, really annoying me :P17:03
RST38hThe US Navy has broken the existing record for the power of a laser. Their new free-electron laser can burn through 200 feet of steel per second.17:03
GAN900That's cool.17:04
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DocScrutinizerdamn, my MTHELs need an upgrade17:06
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CorsacRST38h: I want that on my n90017:07
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GAN900I guess we'd need a bigger battery.17:12
DocScrutinizer(securityfw) on maemo Nokia used blobs to ensure nobody is able to change their UX, on meego you bet they'll do the same by using securityfw, so either you use their oh-so-open dialer-ui or you switch to unsecured mode and neither any dialer nor mediaplayer with hw accel nor anything else will work, but you are free to replace that with your own implementations then that run in unsecure mode of OS17:12
Corsacdid you really read the security framework docs?17:12
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kpomanhello !17:13
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DocScrutinizerI read about general design of such security frameworks, and that's why I say it either will be crap that doesn't serve the purpose, or it will deprive users from their ability to run mediaplayer same time as gdb, or even both17:14
kpomanguys I tried to install samba and it failed (failed depency on update-inetd) so now I try to remove it and I get an error message... all further apt-get installations fail now. Here is the error:17:14
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kpomanhttp://pastebin.com/4mc2HYQV17:15
kpomanhelp !17:15
CorsacDocScrutinizer: I think you missed the point17:15
GAN900DocScrutinizer, but we wont be able to prevent Stux otherwise!!!!17:16
CorsacDocScrutinizer: and “general design” doesn't look enough, imho, but the various docs about the architecture, the thesis from reshetova, the wiki pages etc. are nice to understand it17:16
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GAN900and the big mean hackers will eat your soul17:16
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CorsacDocScrutinizer: but right now it doesn't seem that 1.2 will have the security fw anyway17:17
DocScrutinizerkpoman: subprocess post-removal script returned error <- is the key. This script is somewhere in I guess /var/apt/cache or sth, and it's broken and you need to delete it. My educated guess, no warranty17:17
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: I understood enough about kernel and OS in general to see and wrap my head around how DRM is implemented in windows, and how it's inevitably designed in linux as well if it wants to meet the general design goal17:19
CorsacDocScrutinizer: that's where you miss the point17:19
DocScrutinizerhaha17:19
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DocScrutinizerso point me at it, instead of suggesting lecture of cruft specs17:20
CorsacDocScrutinizer: it's not (only) about DRM17:20
DocScrutinizerit's about making sure only signed apps run in a trused environment17:20
CorsacI agree that drms might be a large part of the intended use cases for distributor, but it's not (at all) the whole point17:20
DocScrutinizerloading e.g gdb, or any arbitrary original app will taint the trusted environment, which makes it mandatory to purge and clear all trusted processes and their memory17:21
GAN900Corsac, that's the slippery slope he's worried about, I think.17:22
GAN900How much do we trust people shipping MeeGo?17:23
DocScrutinizerergo: compile your own kernel -> no dialer, no mediaplayer (ND,NM). Load any game you developed that needs access to /sys -> ND,NM.  Try to tweak any single bit in one of the "trusted" apps -> ND,NM17:23
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DocScrutinizerand OF COURSE strace, gdb, whatnot else are NOT trusted apps. In fact a trusted kernel will not even have the APIs for such tools to run17:25
DocScrutinizer...in secure operation mode17:25
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javispedrothere are good examples of a securityfw though17:25
kpomanhttp://pastebin.com/BkKkEwBg17:26
kpomanI get more and more errors :(17:26
kpomanhelp ! delete samba. it fails. it blocked aptitude17:26
javispedrothe webos one, which was an afterthough (original versions of the platform ran everything as root), allows you to disable it with a single command, and everything is back to being run as root again (what they call "dev mode")17:26
javispedroof course it is clear they didn't had "drm" In mind when designing that17:27
Corsacyes but again that's not a problem with the securityfw itself but rather with the people selling you the device17:28
Corsacwhich is a different matter17:29
javispedroer... obviously. but the lack of one usually means the people selling you the device can't use it ;)17:29
Corsachaving a security subsystem which you can trust *is* a good thing, wether you lack it or not17:29
Corsaclike*17:29
Corsac:/17:29
keriothere's a reason why the 3 laws of robotics had obedience to humans before self-preservation17:30
kpomanany ideas on how to clean that aptitude mess ? pleas !17:30
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: that's not what they are going to implement on meego securityfw. Also it's useless cruft, as any rogue app can do same you can do17:30
Corsacok so clearly don't read anything17:31
DocScrutinizerso that's the "is implemented crappy so it doesn't serve the purpose" case17:31
javispedroDocScrutinizer: na, you do that trick of running apps in carefully crafted chroots with a newly created user17:31
kpomanthe mess is here: http://pastebin.com/FAgyfNNd17:31
javispedroDocScrutinizer: and the meego crap is afaik, both things: "user oriented security" and "content provider security"17:32
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: so how is THAT related to implementing signatures into bootloader? A thing they evidently needed for securityfw17:32
javispedroDocScrutinizer: well I was trying to say that the webos one is a good example of a good one. Because it protects you (_if_ you want to be protected), and doesn't require signature crap nor bootloader changes, etc.17:33
DocScrutinizercontent provider security is all I talk about here. I'm not interested in meego securityfw's attempts to mimik selinux17:34
kerioi thought selinux was good17:36
kerioi mean, user-wise17:36
DocScrutinizerit is17:36
kerioyay17:36
keriolet's just... use it17:36
DocScrutinizerit's largely unrelated to meego securityfw's evilness though17:37
kerioi know, so let's just use selinux17:37
DocScrutinizermeego-nokia won't give you a choice - their dialer and mediaplayer WILL be tagged "secure" and WILL refuse to run on a tainted system17:38
kerio"system, are you secure?" "yeah yeah, no problem bro"17:38
DocScrutinizerwell, modulo the fact there will never be such a thing like a nokia-dialer as things are now17:39
javispedrokerio: forget about doing that if they use the arm hw crap17:39
keriojavispedro: "ok, enabling the hw encryption crap - NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP - alright, we're safe and sound!"17:40
DocScrutinizerso replace "nokia-dialer" by <whatever arbitraray app you got from somewhere and really don't want to miss>17:40
javispedrokerio: so when it requests to sign something and the hw refuses because "boot was not clean", what do you do?17:40
keriowhy would it?17:40
kerioand why can't you just change that?17:41
javispedrobecause boot was not clean. kernel signature didn't match.17:41
javispedrohave you used intel txt? (virtually same thing)17:41
DocScrutinizerkerio: that's why you need a signed kernel17:41
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DocScrutinizerand the mechanism to validate the signature is out of your reach to mess with it17:41
kerioyou guys are still not considering the fact that it's just a fancy check of some sorts17:41
keriodon't break the validation, break the code17:41
javispedroso what, go back to pirating?17:42
DocScrutinizerthe code is outside your reach17:42
keriojavispedro: what's the alternative? not running arbitrary code?17:42
keriothen yeah17:43
javispedrono, we're talking about running nokia code -- and while you can surely break it, doing so would be a "makes headlines around the world" kind of event.17:43
DocScrutinizerI.E ROM bbotloader verifies bootloader's signature, bootloader verifies kernel's signature - it's a chain of trust and you can't break its root which is in OMAP bootROM17:44
keriooh, so it's not possible to run a different kernel17:44
DocScrutinizerthat's the point17:44
kerioso meego will fail17:45
keriogreat17:45
DocScrutinizerthat's my point17:45
LjLwait, am i getting this correctly then that "free" MeeGo would refuse to make phone calls unless you're using a signed kernel...? (last time i asked, they did tell me that "some DRM features" would only be enabled on trusted platforms, but this...)17:45
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javispedrono, the dialer thing is DocScrutinizer's invention (so far).17:46
javispedro(but I wouldn't be much surprised...)17:46
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LjLah so potentially it could be like that, but it depends on which actual applications would decide to be "secure"...? are there any yet?17:46
javispedrowho knows? meego has no securityfw as of yet, this is all part of the more secretish harmattan17:47
keriowell if you can't run a different kernel it'll suck anyway17:47
kerioeven if the rest is open17:47
DocScrutinizerwith emphasis on "so far" - and of course: [2011-02-19 16:39:13] <DocScrutinizer> well, modulo the fact there will never be such a thing like a nokia-dialer as things are now17:47
DocScrutinizer[2011-02-19 16:40:16] <DocScrutinizer> so replace "nokia-dialer" by <whatever arbitraray app you got from somewhere and really don't want to miss>17:47
DocScrutinizerkerio: *for now* they want to allow homebrew kernels, but they are tainted and won't run any app labeled "secure". It's up to the app devels to tag their app like this17:49
kerioDocScrutinizer: yeah, but what makes an app "secure"?17:50
DocScrutinizerand of course it needs less that a snip with fingers for Nokia to lock down the bootloader to completely disallow arbitrary kernels17:50
DocScrutinizerkerio: signature17:50
kerioyeah right17:50
kerioDocScrutinizer: yeah but isn't a program just a bunch of assembly?17:50
DocScrutinizerkerio: signature with a key that only the device manufacturer owns17:51
jaskaugh,a phone like that would be the equivalent of a featurephone?17:51
kerioyeah but i don't get what's the problem in just changing the code17:51
javispedrokerio: be creative, like sony ;). encrypt the program.17:51
psycho_oreoshah sony is hardly creative17:52
keriooh, i see17:52
DocScrutinizerkerio: a signature is a md5sum over whole the program text, that's crypted by the private key, and in system you got the public key to decrypt it and check if it's correct17:54
DocScrutinizer(largely simplified picture...)17:54
keriooh so the program itself is *not* crypted17:54
keriojust change it to not require the signature17:54
javispedrothat's why I said so just crypt it.17:55
DocScrutinizerthat's a feature of the kernel, not of the program. But yeah, possibly you could RE and "unsecure" simple apps17:56
kerioi doubt a mobile system can support fully encrypted binaries17:56
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javispedrothe hw is there...17:56
prontoduuude theresa a nokia 770 intenret tablet i can buy , tempting17:58
DocScrutinizerthe framework is being worked on, by apologists that try to convince you ut's just in your best interest17:59
DocScrutinizermother Theresa?18:00
keriostupid fanboys or just paid people?18:00
pupnikjustin bieber18:00
DocScrutinizerboth I guess18:00
DocScrutinizerI admit it's quite hard to wrap your head around all of it, so maybe a lot of them doesn't even see the implications and is tricked into thinking this is a good thing, just like users are18:01
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Venemo_N900hi18:02
DocScrutinizerhi Venemo_N90018:02
Venemo_N900hi DocScrutinizer, what's up?18:02
DocScrutinizerDRM and securityfw debate18:03
Venemo_N900oh18:03
* pupnik remembers fondly Til Harbaum telling Quim Gil why N900 DRM would be cracked in a year18:03
javispedrothere's no debate, there's just collective moaning ;)18:03
DocScrutinizeror "why it's about their security, not yours"18:03
Venemo_N900your favourite topic, DocScrutinizer? :P18:03
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DocScrutinizersomewhat, yeah :-)18:04
Venemo_N900:)18:04
psycho_oreospronto, what would be more amazing is if one could run previous versions of maemo on their n900 with some custom key rebindings. You'll get the fastest hardware available in small form and still play with legacy stuff :p18:04
prontohaha18:04
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: Corsac liked to argue, haven't heard any new arguments of him, about my lack of understanding about what's the nature of securityfw18:05
Venemo_N900so, educate me. what's the nature of the securityfw?18:06
DocScrutinizerhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog18:07
MohammadAGhow do I remove the sim from an iphon18:07
MohammadAGiPhone 418:07
ruskietake the device...18:08
ruskietake a hammer...18:08
javispedrowhat a question18:08
alteregoMohammadAG: blend it.18:08
ruskieapply hammer to device... liberaly...18:08
alteregoMohammadAG: iPhones use the micro sim or whatever it is right?18:08
MohammadAGyeaha18:08
MohammadAG-a18:08
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: doesn't it have a user manual?18:08
alteregoBlend it18:09
ruskieVenemo_N900, what's that?18:09
alteregoBlend it with sulpher18:09
MohammadAGthere's a pinhole, which is a pain in the asshole18:09
MohammadAGI'm not home18:09
Per_n900MuhammadAG: you need a paperclip or something like that.18:09
MohammadAGyeah, then what?18:10
alteregoYeah there's a little hole you poke, kind of like the failsafe in a cd drive.18:10
MohammadAGpush forward, or yank it out18:10
alteregopush18:10
MohammadAGah18:10
Per_n900stick the paperclip in the tiny hole :)18:10
psycho_oreosdoesn't apple products have instruction manuals on the apple's own website?18:10
MohammadAGah, k18:11
MohammadAGgot it out18:11
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, on 2G18:11
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, well you seem to have internet access from the machine that you are using to chat to us right now ;018:11
psycho_oreosffs wrong emoticons18:12
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ruskiehmmm it seems the various /sys and /proc optimisations that are on one of the threads on tmo really improved interactivity for me...18:17
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DocScrutinizerafaik iPhone comes with paperclip ;-P18:19
psycho_oreosapple branded paperclip? :D18:19
DocScrutinizerthe credit card sized "user manual" that gets lost on unpacking18:19
DocScrutinizerI heard it has some pin on sticky tape, or sth (hearsay)18:20
plr__anyone here used kqoauth?18:20
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wazdHeya all18:26
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Venemo_N900ruskie: link pls?18:31
ruskielemme dig it up18:31
ruskieVenemo_N900, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=948572&postcount=118:32
Venemo_N900thx ruskie18:32
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dschoepeI'm thinking about buying a new phone and would prefer Maemo over Android from a technical perspective. Is there still an active (development) community and do you think it will persist even though Nokia jumped ship?18:34
andre__dschoepe: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU exists, however community of course cannot fix issues in closed source components18:35
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dschoepeandre__: Are there many issues left in those components?18:36
DocScrutinizerandre__: we can :-D It's just annoyingly harder than it needs to be, with Nokia not helping in any way whatsoever18:36
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plr__this is interesting project as well: http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/cordia:start18:37
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DocScrutinizerdschoepe: maemo is rather decent as is now, of course there's always something left over to augment18:37
Venemo_N900I gotta go now, bb18:38
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dschoepehmm, and MeeGo-development should continue since there are more companies involved than just Nokia, right?18:38
alteregottyl :) Have a good weekend guys.18:39
DocScrutinizerdschoepe: especially the whle thing you might call telephony stack is missing APIs so you could implement new functionality easily18:39
dschoepeAndroid seems to have very few floss apps, so it seems to be somewhat of a lousy alternative18:39
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dschoepeDocScrutinizer: hmm, okay.18:40
DocScrutinizerdschoepe: meego handset UX (the "phone OS") is left on its own it seems to me18:40
DocScrutinizerthere's no other company besides Nokia involved in meego for handset18:41
dschoepeDocScrutinizer: So Intel and others are basically only working on MeeGo for tablets?18:42
DocScrutinizeryes18:42
derfWell, no one wants an Intel chip in a phone.18:42
DocScrutinizerexcept Intel ;-D18:43
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dschoepeDocScrutinizer: If you now had to choose between Maemo and an android-based device, would you still go with Maemo, or do you think it's rather a bad decision in the long run?18:44
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DocScrutinizermaemo, every single day18:45
* ruskie would pick a maemo device in a heartbeat18:45
dschoepeokay, thanks for your input18:45
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derfBut all the existing Maemo-based devices are pretty dated at this point, and there are no plans for more.18:46
GAN900DocScrutinizer++++18:46
DocScrutinizerbut that's just me, a linux addict, and your mileage may vary, depending on what you expect of your "phone"18:46
pillarNokia should just release the N9-00 and let us put Maemo5 in it :)18:47
pillarI would be quite happy18:47
* pupnik too18:47
pupniklittle improvements18:47
ruskiewould this mythical N9-00 have a physical kb?18:48
DocScrutinizerI'd tlerate the "flimpsy kbd slide" - yeah18:48
DocScrutinizertolerate*18:48
pillarruskie: that's the one I'm referring to18:48
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pillarphysical kb is quite important for me18:48
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DocScrutinizerI'd not tolerate a c-ts though18:49
pupnikthe chinese made a clone just based on rumors of a prototype18:49
pupnikwell at least of the appearance of the case18:49
ruskieyeah... cts is annyoing...18:49
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pupniki'm still in love with the E7 case / design18:50
ruskieI like the fact that I can use my N900 with gloves on...18:50
pupnikthat's an absolute classic imo18:50
pupnikoh yes good one18:50
ruskieand yes I had to... plenty of times18:51
pupniki wear gloves outside in winter...18:52
ruskieI tend to need them in the car as well18:52
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GAN900ruskie, doing a lot of street racing? :P18:53
ruskienaahh18:53
ruskiedriving a 13 year old car...18:53
dschoepeDocScrutinizer: Yeah, it really annoys me that the vast majority of android apps are proprietary, so Maemo and its ecosystem sound a lot more attractive "on principle".18:53
ruskiecrappy heating... and near no isolation from the environment18:54
dschoepefor example, it still does not have a free (as in freedom) scp-client18:54
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GAN900Also: Android sucks and Google is evil18:54
DocScrutinizerdschoepe: well, maemo is a linux, android isn't18:54
dschoepeDocScrutinizer: I thought Android pretends to be one, too?18:55
chxAndroid has a Linux kernel, and so what?18:55
DocScrutinizerdschoepe: it pretends to be, yes. In fact most of linux developers will disagree18:55
DocScrutinizerandroid has a linux kernel?? so why needs nitdroid an own kernel then?18:56
chxthe kernel and the userland are two vastly different beings as the Debian kFreeBSD edition shows18:56
chxDocScrutinizer: because , of course it's a modified Linux kernel18:56
DocScrutinizeryeah, and linux is a modified minix kernel ;-P18:57
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chx"The Android kernel code is more than just the few weird drivers that were in the drivers/staging/android subdirectory in the kernel. In order to get a working Android system, you need the new lock type they have created, as well as hooks in the core system for their security model."18:57
chxwell the Android kernel is quite close to the Linux kernel :)18:58
DocScrutinizerand minix a modified bell kernel18:58
chxhaha18:58
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DocScrutinizerfor all that matters the android tweaks to linux kernel (as quoted by you one line above) make it sufficiently different to a upstream linux kernel so apps written for the latter won't simply port to android19:00
DocScrutinizerand even less will android apps port to linux/maemo19:00
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psycho_oreoscompare that to the amount of iPhone apps being ported to linux/maemo, bar none!19:00
DocScrutinizerof course that's about more than just kernel, it's as well about libs and whatnot19:01
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: yeah, IOS is a *nix OS as well, isn't it?19:03
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, never said that19:05
psycho_oreosand it isn't IOS, IOS is cisco19:05
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nox-moin19:06
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pupnikhuhu nox-19:06
nox-moin pupnik19:07
pupnikanyone use minitube for youtube?  it always aborts playback for me19:07
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: well, I'm a noob about iPhone. So this was a real question, and probably you're right with IOS19:08
GAN900iOS19:08
* RST38h yawns, tries swallowing the moon19:08
RST38hHELLO all19:09
DocScrutinizerbon appetit!19:09
DocScrutinizererryummy, some cheese in my fridge :-)19:09
javispedromoo RST38h19:10
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* DocScrutinizer waves19:10
kpomananyone got a good link on developing for maemo with python ?19:11
RST38hHey, Doc, javispedro, pupnik, GAN19:11
kpomanlike a hello world app or whatever to get started ?19:11
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kpomanand also is wxgtk etc... supported on maemo ?19:14
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javispedromaemo supports whatever you want ;)19:15
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DocScrutinizerhttp://diotavelli.net/PyQtWiki/Creating_GUI_Applications_with_PyQt_and_Qt_Designer  http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/index.html  http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/19:15
kpomanjavispedro: yep but for gui toolkits maybe it just doesnt fit the UI19:15
kpomanor whatever...19:15
javispedrothe native UI is Gtk+19:15
javispedroand there's also a good-looking Qt theme.19:15
lcukhttp://cobolforgcc.sourceforge.net/19:16
ruskielcuk, yay19:16
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kpomanoh ok then19:16
kpomanif the base is based on gtk then ok19:17
DocScrutinizerhttp://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/firstprograms/19:17
kpomanjavispedro: is there a page talking about the API's on maemo ? like the API for battery, for GPS, etc... or is it just direct access to hardware ?19:17
javispedrokpoman: depends on your toolkit19:18
kpomanjavispedro: for example got problems with lot of duplicated contacts after syncing with an exchange server. wanted to update the database by hand. copied it to my ubuntu box, then saw the sqlite db was corrupt or encrypted19:18
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture19:18
kpomanso I guess direct access to some stuff is not possible19:19
javispedrokpoman: search around with that filename19:19
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kpomanok19:19
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DocScrutinizerthere's an app for that :-) duplicate-contacts or sth like that19:19
javispedroyou will find also plenty of python maemo applications19:19
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MohammadAGiOS isn't that bad19:20
MohammadAGit's worse than that19:20
DocScrutinizer...thanks barisione :-D19:20
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MohammadAGsomeone's iphone's mic isn't working19:20
MohammadAGthey took it to a repair shop, which tried a different mic that didn't work19:21
MohammadAGI'm not really surprised, arab store diagnostics are retarded19:21
psycho_oreosstupid ISP19:21
MohammadAGopened skype, app crashed (segfault?), memo app can record fine, so the mic's fine19:21
* MohammadAG wonders how to flash it without losing the unlock19:22
DocScrutinizerhahaha19:22
DocScrutinizerget a decent phone!19:22
MohammadAGit's not mine19:23
kpomanDocScrutinizer I have that app but got thousands of duplicated. I need to manually click on 1500 merge options.... un-human19:23
DocScrutinizerkpoman: the app is FOSS, just tweak it a tiny bit to automate it19:24
MohammadAGtap the title bar and find duplicate contacts19:24
MohammadAGthen you just select the the contacts that match19:24
kpomanMohammadAG: with thousands of duplicates it is not so funny19:24
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MohammadAGwho said it was supposed to be funny?19:25
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kpomanMohammadAG: not you :p19:25
MohammadAGand seriously, thousands?19:25
kpomanMohammadAG: anyway any repetitive action could be scripted :p19:26
DocScrutinizerkpoman: anyway: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API19:26
MohammadAGhow long does the contacts app take to start? :p19:26
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kerioMohammadAG: just restore with a custom firmware, and reinstall the unlock19:26
kpomanMohammadAG: it is quite fast with 850MHz lol19:27
MohammadAGheh19:27
keriohaha19:27
kpomanwhy does that lame thing happen when sync with exchange ?19:27
* kerio takes note to never buy anything from kpoman - ever19:27
kpomanhehe19:27
DocScrutinizerbecause exchange is lame?19:27
kpomanoops19:28
MohammadAGlots of corps use it DocScrutinizer19:28
MohammadAGeven though it's lame19:28
DocScrutinizerI know, but that's not proving anything19:28
MohammadAGI mean, I use windows daily on public PCs19:28
MohammadAGI can't go around installing debian on them19:28
DocScrutinizerexcept those corps are lame, maybe ;-)19:28
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DocScrutinizerwhatever, bbl19:29
kerioMohammadAG: well, with a really fast installer...19:29
MohammadAGkerio, mssed the point I see :p19:30
kpomanok I am just trying to figure out how to access the addressbook from python19:30
keriowrite a worm that uses a windows bug to replace windows with ubuntu!19:30
MohammadAGI'm not sure which bug I should exploit, lots of them exist19:31
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kpomanis it somewhere on a dbus thing ?19:32
kpomanthe contacts api ?19:32
MohammadAGwell, for accounts, telepathy19:33
kpomanfor contacts on the contact base app ... I just printed print bus.list_names() ... got a lot of stuff19:34
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kpomanok here it seems to describe the process: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Accessing_APIs_without_Python_bindings ...  I wonder if ther eis a higher level api than having to stick to ctypes19:38
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kpomanok this should help: bzr branch lp:python-osso-abook :p19:54
kpomancool19:54
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: prior to CSSUing rtcom-dialer-ui I'd suggest to tackle contacts-ui, and exploit osso_abook_contact_chooser_set_capabilities() and extended vCard attributes (as in /* By convention, any arbitrary vCard files not in the specification should begin with "X-" */ #define VCARD_FIELD_USERNAME "X-FOO-BAR-TETRIS-USERNAME" ) to implement multiple addressbooks, generic contact-ringtone display and editing, and a lot more19:55
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DocScrutinizercontact-groups, as in Nokia's 6210 and probably even before... :-)19:56
DocScrutinizerringtones assigned to contact-group rather than particular contact19:56
DocScrutinizeretc pp19:57
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korhojoahugha19:58
korhojoawhat does one do while in texas19:58
RST38hkorhojoa: shoot turkeys from his porch?19:59
RST38hwith a shotgun?19:59
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ruskieDocScrutinizer, why ringtones assigned per contact group??? yes as an addition... but I prefer per contact as well(not that I'm actually using it)...20:02
DocScrutinizerI wasn't to suggest "instead of" but "in addition to, as alternative"20:03
ruskieahh20:03
ruskiewell didn't exactly make it clear to me...20:03
DocScrutinizersoory, I've been fuzzy20:03
ruskiehehe20:04
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DocScrutinizerruskie: basicaly *every* contact is member of a contacts-group (usually "default" group). You can select the ringtone for "default" as you did right now, you can assign a particular contact to a new group, you can have a ringtone for that child of "default" group overide the one defined in "default" (or not), you can (or not) assign a ringtone to a particular contact overriding the ringtone inherited from whatever contact-group the contact20:07
DocScrutinizeris in20:07
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ruskiesorry for being annoying about it... I just got more used to asking exact things from people since I started having a job(3-4 years ago)... because a ton of people just assume that I know what they want me to do or they assume I know what they are talking about20:09
DocScrutinizeryou might even want to reference to a profile rather than a mere ringtone20:10
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DocScrutinizerand those profiles can change in their properties depending on environment (as in time-of-day, location, whatever)20:10
DocScrutinizerruskie: much appreciated20:11
ruskiethat's actually the only thing that changed for me with starting work...20:12
jacekowskiwow20:12
jacekowskianother N900 user20:12
ruskie?20:13
DocScrutinizerthose profiles are not identical to the profiles yu select in status area, like "silent" and "default", rather the setting of these user-profiles is an input for the contact-profiles to change their properties depending (but not necesserily according to) the usr-profile-setting20:14
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jacekowskii'm in london and i've just seen another N900 user20:14
ruskieahh20:15
jacekowskisitting next to me on a train20:15
DocScrutinizer\o/20:15
DocScrutinizerpartytime20:15
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jacekowskiehhh20:16
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chxcongrats you found the other n900 user in london.20:18
DocScrutinizerlol20:18
jacekowskiand train left on time20:18
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chxok now we have proof you are not in london rahter at home an hallucinating20:19
chxfirst an n900 user then a train leaving on time, is the easter bunny the next?20:19
DocScrutinizermehehehe20:20
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DocScrutinizernah, somebody walking by, frowning at the N900s, pulling out his N9, laughing evilly and walking on20:23
chxnow, that would be supreme proof of being high :)20:23
chxthat thing you just mentioned which i refuse to name simply doesnt exist20:24
MohammadAGit does20:24
MohammadAGI've seen it20:24
MohammadAG(on the interwebz of course!)20:25
DocScrutinizerbut... but... IT's THERE! http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#327733320:25
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DocScrutinizerthat's no photoshop hoax20:26
MohammadAGi think that's actually dead DocScrutinizer20:26
MohammadAGit's too old to be THE N920:26
MohammadAGtrue20:26
MohammadAGbut I think it was killed20:26
DocScrutinizersshhhhhhhh! ;-)20:26
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you lag!20:27
MohammadAG3G, i shouldn't20:27
MohammadAGyou lag!20:27
MohammadAG1s lag fyi20:27
DocScrutinizer:28 :28 :29 :3020:28
chxremember that Nokia phone some years ago?20:28
chx5-1020:28
DocScrutinizeryou're not typing THAT fast20:28
chxit was a very unique form20:28
chxand never actually got released20:28
kerioi really want a n9 but with a better OS20:28
chxit looked like, i dunno, a seashell20:29
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chxnokia 770020:30
chxi knew it was something close in name to the table20:30
chxt20:30
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DocScrutinizerif I lag, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2011-02-19T20:26:28 does as well20:31
DocScrutinizereven :28 :28 :28 :2920:31
chxhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7700 same as N9: would've been nice if it gets released.20:32
chxwhat i read the last week was that the n9-00 is canned and (a vastly inferior) n9-01 might be coming20:33
chxMEH.20:33
SpeedEvilchx: I have one!20:33
chxone what?20:33
kerioi have a n900 too20:33
SpeedEvil770020:33
DocScrutinizereeeeeeek fuggly20:34
Jartza_I had couple of those darth vader phones20:34
chxwow seriously?20:34
SpeedEvilyes20:34
chxSpeedEvil: that's one rarity, congrats!20:34
SpeedEvilI bought it for resale,but that fell through20:34
chxIf it eats too much space i am happy to take it over and even pay you a hundred or two20:34
Jartza_that's one ugly sidetalking phone :)20:35
SpeedEvilOh - no - it wasn't the 770020:35
SpeedEvilIt was a similar one20:35
chxi'd been surprised, even here if someone held a real 770020:35
Jartza_hmm, 7700 does have sidetalking20:35
chxthat thing is rare as hen's teeth20:36
Jartza_I was working at Nokia :)20:36
Jartza_In SDK development20:36
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Jartza_we had like 10 of those darth vaders20:36
Jartza_later on it was replaced with 771020:37
DocScrutinizerlook, it even has a *real* IMEI: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#327734320:37
Jartza_but S90 was bad20:37
DocScrutinizerProto B2 HWID072420:38
Jartza_way too unstable and not that nice to use20:38
SpeedEvilhttp://www.nokia.co.uk/support/product-support/nokia-760020:38
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SpeedEvilIs what I have.20:38
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SpeedEvilWhich I would be quite willing to get rid of for any reasonable offers :)20:38
chx_afkJartza_: what darth vader phone20:39
DocScrutinizer00440213191971820:39
Jartza_chx_afk: nokia 770020:39
Jartza_http://www.gsmjar.com/images/Nokia/7700/2057-L.JPG20:39
chx_afkJartza_: you had ten of THAT?????20:39
Jartza_yes20:40
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly if that IMEI would open up the tablet firmware download site20:40
Jartza_well not ME exactly, but our SDK division20:40
Jartza_where I was working20:40
chx_afksniff20:40
Jartza_why? :)20:41
Jartza_it was baaaaaad20:41
Jartza_even the latest versions of S90 were really unstable20:41
DocScrutinizerX-D20:42
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leafpadis there any offline installer of scratchbox?20:44
leafpadi mean the Maemo 5 sdk20:44
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javispedronope.20:55
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leafpadsigh20:56
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piggz_leafpad: there is a virtualbox image that makes things dead easy21:07
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DocScrutinizerI really love how a ssh session over WLAN, when I leave flat for 60min, it reestablishes WLAN connection when back home and the shell is still alive and functional21:23
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ruskiehehe21:23
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nox-DocScrutinizer, that would be more cool if it weren't for the wifi powersaving bug21:25
DocScrutinizerwhich is?21:25
nox-those kernel messages about the missed beacon frames, makes the device send endless probe requests eating battery21:26
DocScrutinizerhmm, lemme see21:27
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DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:37 IroN900 kernel: [123257.724792] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request21:34
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:38 IroN900 kernel: [123259.090118] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up21:34
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:39 IroN900 wlancond[10383]: SIOCGIWAP: 00:00:00:00:00:0021:35
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:39 IroN900 kernel: [123259.808746] wlan0: no probe response from AP cf1bb52c - disassociating21:35
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:48 IroN900 wlancond[10383]: Too many failures: 421:36
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:48 IroN900 kernel: [123268.667785] wlan0: direct probe to AP f0:7d:68:85:72:f8 timed out21:36
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:48 IroN900 kernel: [123268.772674] wl1251: down21:36
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DocScrutinizerseems it tries for 9s then gives up and switches to GPRS and powers down WLAN21:36
javispedrothat happens on lower signal conditions21:37
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trxmine just repeats [123257.724792] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request21:38
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trx(dmesg tho)21:38
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:52 IroN900 kernel: [123272.473846] wl1251: down21:39
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 20:02:51 IroN900 kernel: [123872.003845] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7)21:39
DocScrutinizerFeb 19 20:02:51 IroN900 wlancond[10383]: Scan issued21:39
DocScrutinizercan't see anything bad in there21:39
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DocScrutinizertrx: hidden SSID?21:42
trxno21:42
DocScrutinizerthen I dunno21:42
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trxi just copied your message21:42
trxbecause they are the same21:42
DocScrutinizerthe above is me leaving flat @ 19:5121:42
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* javispedro was kinda surprised on battery life with xchat and gprs21:45
javispedroI could nearly get it to work for a full day...21:45
nox-DocScrutinizer, like trx when it happens i see one message wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request21:45
DocScrutinizerWLAN detects the connection loss, the device switches to GPRS, and WLAN is starting a scan for available APs exactly the 10min later which I set in settings-internet21:45
nox-after another until i traceroute the google dns21:46
trxi get those messages like every second21:46
nox-device otherwise stays `connected' to wifi all the time, and the `ap' is like 2 meters away...21:46
DocScrutinizerduring these 10min the wlan chip is powered down21:46
trxand i am 2 meters away from the router21:47
nox-trx, yeah then we see the same issue21:47
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nox-and iirc the `AP cf1bb52c' everyone sees is a %pM *printf thats not correctly expanded21:48
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nox-i.e it tries to print the mac21:49
trxdamn, 40 days uptime gone :/21:49
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trxtried to edit a 300mb file and it reboted :/21:49
nox-ew21:50
DocScrutinizertrx: nox-: http://paste.debian.net/108220/21:51
DocScrutinizerlooks absolutely ok, when connected to AP as well21:51
trxwait, ill paste my sys log21:51
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ZogG!last ugly americans21:52
ZogGoops wrong chan21:52
nox-DocScrutinizer, yeah you seem to be seeing pretty much expected behaviour while we see the bug21:52
nox-me and trx21:52
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DocScrutinizer:nod:21:53
* DocScrutinizer away to test more roaming, errr for dinner21:55
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nox-bon appetit :)21:55
trxhttp://pastebin.com/xKvTxnYF21:57
javispedrotrx: doesn't look constant.21:58
javispedroif it depends on activity, it might be an AP issue.21:59
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nid0looks fairly constant, its basically every second22:00
nid0except a 45 sec gap before the last two22:00
javispedroand what happened there?22:01
nox-trx, what kind of ap do you use?22:01
trxi haven't really tested if its constant or not, i just noticed it22:01
trxTP-LINK TD-W8901G22:01
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chadidoes anybody notice reduced home screen performance when using the calendar widget with 9 items?22:02
nid0jeez, thats 1 cheap router these days22:02
trxi got it from my adsl isp22:03
trx(for free, so i cant complain) ;)22:04
* SpeedEvil ponders cuing the 'free' rant.22:05
* SpeedEvil mehs.22:05
javispedrorouters suck22:05
SpeedEvilhttp://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/78321551.png woo22:06
trxyeap22:06
SpeedEvilSucking less today22:06
nid0synced at what speed? :p22:06
SpeedEvilhttp://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/78214031.png - was earlier.22:06
SpeedEvil4400 at the moment22:06
javispedrowhere's my gigabit ethernet with proper final 802.11n with its three antennas, builtin dsl modem, not-useless firmware and power usage figures that don't make it look like 1950's tech?22:07
nid0javispedro: theres plenty about22:08
javispedroother than d-i-y, show me.22:08
nid0netgear's dgnd3300 is a good example22:10
nid0theyre finally releasing a dg variant of the 3700 in (supposedly) q2 as well22:11
Jartza_hmmh22:11
javispedroit's not gigabit ethernet, it's not good firmware, and no idea about power usage.22:12
Jartza_oh yeah, -27°C outside :P22:12
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DocScrutinizercf1af52c  vs  cf1bb52c22:15
javispedrohum22:15
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nid0the firmware works fine and is replaceable, power usage is fairly good across the board on netgear's current range - the dgn3500 has gigabit (misread) but im not entirely sure that's multi antenna22:15
DocScrutinizero/22:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer: looks like two coarse-grained (page) kernel allocations  ;)22:16
nid0the dg variant of the wndr3700's been the one to wait for though22:16
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DocScrutinizerFeb 19 19:52:37 IroN900 kernel: [123257.724792] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request22:16
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DocScrutinizerFeb 19 20:55:54 Nokia-N900-51-1 kernel: [  192.905944] wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1af52c - sending probe request22:17
DocScrutinizerwireshark might help22:19
javispedrothey are printing a pointer value when they wanted to print a string?22:19
DocScrutinizernext thing I'd do is fire up wireshark and dump the packets OTA, then search for cf1af52c22:21
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DocScrutinizerbut next thing I'll do is heading out for decent dinner22:21
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DocScrutinizerD-Link DR615 fwiw22:22
RST38hDoes it have lasesrs?22:23
RST38hs/lasesrs/laserses my preciousss, yesss, laserses22:23
javispedroeverytime I see one of those routers I puke22:24
javispedroa MIPS < 100Mhz CPU with less than 16MiB of RAM that virtually uses more power than a laptop22:25
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javispedroI _HOPE_ I'm being naive here and assuming there's some component that uses lots of power, and this is not the ripoff it seems to be.22:26
javispedrothe netgear stuff seems to use 0.5Ghz MIPS, so I would be surprised if does not have a fan already =)22:27
microlithalas, my netgear with its 600MHz MIPS has no fan22:28
nid0speaking for the 3700 at least its at 600mhz with no fan22:28
javispedrothe 3700 I was reading about =)22:29
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nid0supposedly it's rated consumption is 6w, i've never tested it myself though so no idea if that's with the wireless transmit power dialled down22:30
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javispedronid0: reading that on power brick?22:30
javispedrocause I can't find it on spec...22:30
nid0no, thats just what google repeatedly spits out checking now, I dont have a 3700 here myself to check it now, i've just used it a few times elsewhere22:31
nid0still using a stone-age dg834 until the dsl variant of the 3700 comes out22:31
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GAN900Cisco E3000 for fun times.22:33
nid0it lacks a dsl modem though22:33
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microliththe 3700 is real nice with openwrt on it :)22:33
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microliththe v2 has double the flash though, which would make it easier to install things without running out of space22:34
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RST38hEmployer Demands Facebook Login from Applicants22:36
* RST38h snickers22:36
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nid0that's basically when you decide you can do better than work as a prison officer, imo22:38
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zerojayWow, that's fucked.22:39
zerojayThat's when you create a fake account.22:39
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* RST38h has no Facebook account. What should he do? :)22:40
internetishardThe same as I do22:40
Corsacregister one just in case?22:40
internetishardEverything!22:40
internetishard(And don't submit)22:40
Corsacso you can hand it to a future employer22:41
Corsac“sorry, there's not much...”22:41
internetishardAny job that requires a FB account is not a job I want22:41
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nid0well, its also against facebook's tos to share your access details with anyone22:41
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GAN900Facebook22:45
GAN900Thank goodness I'm out of that.22:45
GAN900zerojay, yo.22:45
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jacekowskiinternetishard: well, most employers will google you anyways22:50
internetishardNothing wrong with that22:51
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jacekowskiinternetishard: if he asks you for facebook login you can at least give him information you want to give hin22:51
jacekowskihim*22:51
* timeless sighs22:51
jacekowskirather than some random shit he finds22:51
internetishardI've no FB22:51
timelessDown With Love's finnish subtitles translated "milton hershy" as "karl fazer"22:51
nid0maybe he'd like the keys to my house to go through my filing cabinet while he's at it though22:51
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internetishardyeah, give him the keys to your underground child porn studio22:53
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GAN900nid0++22:53
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zerojayGAN900: Yo.22:57
trumeenid0, netgear DG834 is very reliable23:02
nid0indeed, i've had mine without fault for years and years and years23:02
trumeenid0, i haven't found anything as good as that. only downside is that it doesnt support custom firmware23:03
trumeebut maybe that is a good thing :p23:03
nid0well, i'll finally be replacing mine the day netgear release the dgnd370023:03
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trumeehow about buying the cable version of 3700 and using 834 as dumb modem23:04
nid0the main problem with almost all modern routers is manufactures have their selection of features, and put several features in each23:04
nid0but dont offer anything with *all* of them23:04
trumeenid0, i would like the power saving features on the router23:05
nid0trumee: i've been tempted, and I do have some super basic old netgear modem kicking around anyway, but when the 3700 first came out I thought id give it a bit to let the kinks get worked out, then I thought, well, may as well wait for the modem variant23:05
nid0which is taking way longer to get released than I imagined23:05
trumeenid0, UAPSD iirc it is called. cant find that in any router23:06
trumeenid0, N900 has support for it, but routers dont :(23:07
trumeenid0, dont think even 3700 has it.23:07
nid0afaik it should do23:09
Azoghostapd hast options for UAPSD resp. WMM23:09
trumeeAzog, yes but i cant find any router which supports it.23:10
Azogtrumee: how can you check if it is supported?23:10
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trumeeAzog, there is something on the openwrt wiki on how to check it23:11
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trumeeAzog, this mentions it, http://www.howardforums.com/printthread.php?t=118644323:15
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Azogtrumee: unfortunately i have a aalix-board with an ath9k-card running debian, so no nvram-magic for me23:17
Azogbut fixing the powersaving-mode would be nice for me, my n900 often hangs if i connect with ssh to it23:18
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trumeeAzog, did you have to buy the ath9k card seperately?23:20
koala_manhow can I run a command on boot on my n900? I tried making an init script and linking it into /etc/rc{2,3,4}.d, but it doesn't appear to run23:20
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Azogtrumee: yes, there is a mini-pci socket23:20
trumeekoala_man, /etc/event.d ?23:21
kamui__koala_man,  use rc.local23:21
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trumeeAzog, advantage of alix is that it is upgradable and runs regular debian x86?23:22
koala_mankamui__: does that work even though no such file exists, and /etc/init.d and /etc/event.d don't contain any mention of it?23:22
Azogtrumee: exactly23:23
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kamui__my bad, I created an rc.local and linked it to execute last at all runlevels, totally forgot about that23:24
trumeeAzog, that is nice. how about storage, usb pen drive?23:24
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kamui__but I don't have an N900 anymore, gimme a minute, let me see if I can find you some docs23:24
Azogtrumee: internal sd-flash and laptop-ide header, 2 usb ports23:24
trumeeAzog, nice one. where can i buy it :p23:25
Azogtrumee: http://pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm23:25
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trumeeAzog, how about the wlan card?23:26
Azogtrumee: i bought everything from varia-store.com, they sell wlan cards, too23:27
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trumeeI have set the wifi PSM mode to medium on N900 and it rapes the battery23:31
MohammadAGwell, #ubuntu is useless, might as well ask here23:31
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MohammadAGI can't login cause my / is mounted as ro23:32
trumeeMohammadAG, best community is on #gentoo23:32
MohammadAGproblem is, idk why, i fsck'd it23:32
jacekowskitrumee: i'm banned there23:32
trumeejacekowski, why?23:32
jacekowskii don't really remember23:32
jacekowskiit was almost 5 years ago23:32
MohammadAGlol23:33
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budfiveMohammadAG: this is your n900 or your computer? Are you getting errors when logging in?23:40
MohammadAGPC23:40
MohammadAGYeah, gnome power manager defaults23:41
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MohammadAGmeh23:41
budfiveshould you have rw access? why is it ro?23:41
MohammadAGf'd up /etc/fstab, now I can't fix it23:41
MohammadAGNo idea23:41
budfiveif it's really ok to rw, you can remount it with those permissiosn23:42
MohammadAGhow do I remount it?23:42
budfiveone sec. let me look it up23:42
budfivemount -o remount something something23:42
budfiveyeah23:42
budfivemount -o remount,rw23:42
Corsac/23:42
MohammadAGthanks :D23:43
budfive:)23:43
* MohammadAG resumes boot up23:44
MohammadAGhopefully it'll allow me to login now23:44
budfiveI'd look into why it was mounted ro to begin with. Maybe there was some file system issue it didn't want to exacerbate. Read the logs.23:44
Corsacbudfive: he fucked the fstab manually, afaict :)23:45
budfiveoh yeah. I get it now23:45
Corsacsometime you don't need any help to brick your computer :)23:45
MohammadAGno23:47
MohammadAGi fucked it up while attempting to fix this :p23:48
MohammadAGand it's still failing :/23:49
Corsaccan you paste the output of “mount”?23:50
MohammadAGwell, no :p23:50
MohammadAGidk how to use wpa_supplicant23:50
MohammadAGalways relied on network-manager23:51
MohammadAGthat's fine anyway23:51
MohammadAGwhat permissions should /tmp have?23:51
MohammadAGIt keeps saying "The configuration defaults for GNOME power manager have not been installed correctly"23:53
MohammadAGPlease contact yourself23:53
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timelesshttp://www.ketv.com/r/14133442/detail.html23:53
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budfive /tmp is assumed to be rw for everybody23:54
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Corsacand sticky23:56
ieatlinthuh, i never noticed /tmp was sticky23:57
* ieatlint learnt something23:57
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Corsacyou're not supposed to erase other people's files23:59
MohammadAGso chmod 777 /tmp should do?23:59
jacekowskiyes23:59

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