IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-08-26

nedkoi'm not a pda, i need phone :)00:00
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GadgetoidWeird my N810 doesn't seem to want to satisfy dependencies automagically00:07
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nedkowhat is the deal with pda not needing phones?00:08
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nedkoi cant imagine why one needs pda but does not need phone00:08
GadgetoidOne has enough phones ;)00:09
nedkomaybe some ppl prefer to have separate devices?00:09
lardman|homeit's about portability I guess00:09
nedkocarry two devices with them00:09
javispedrodefinite proof of the average cultural level in slashdot. no two posts share the same "theory" explaining the 4GiB limit in 32bit windows, and indeed only one of all the posts is right (and tfa, but even then he had to disassemble the kernel when its completely explained even in wikipedia)00:09
johnsqnedko: three00:09
javispedro</rant>00:09
lardman|homelol00:10
slonopotamusjavispedro, 3.5gb, no?00:10
javispedronedko, some people see no need to be slaves to a carrier, specially when I have free wifi at work, school, and non-free wifi at home.00:10
nedkojohnsq: what is the third?00:10
javispedroslonopotamus, depends on system.00:11
johnsqnedko: phone, pda, nds00:11
nedkojavispedro: i want both wifi/wimax and gsm+3g00:11
slonopotamusjohnsq, nds - ?00:11
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johnsqslonopotamus: portable console nitendo DS00:11
nedkonintendo?00:11
crashanddiejohnsq: any version of the nintendo ds that's not portable?00:12
* slonopotamus has 8gb ram @ work and doesn't care00:12
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nedkolet them be four then, i want camera too :)00:12
crashanddieslonopotamus: e-peen contest much?00:12
qwerty12_N810slonopotamus: I guess you need it, using Java stuff? :)00:12
johnsqnedko: right.00:12
crashanddieqwerty12_N810: java doesn't require that much00:12
qwerty12_N810True. Knock off a gig and we're nearly there00:13
javispedrovmware is the only "usage pattern" I've found that requires enormous amounts of RAM.00:13
crashanddieqwerty12_N810: my 2.5 gig laptop will run 3 vms and a java dev environment no sweat :)00:13
crashanddiejavispedro: use case?00:13
qwerty12_N810heh00:13
javispedrouse case, ok :P00:13
crashanddie:)00:13
slonopotamusqwerty12_N810, java, yep. actually 4 would be enough, but... sometimes i run 3 vms with different IEs00:13
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nedkon900 has two problems, it is not here and it is ugly. i want maemo on a htc dream!00:13
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crashanddienedko: and you complain the n900 ugly by comparing it to an htc dream?00:14
javispedronedko, well, you have the source. hope you can get the time. good luck with the port!!!00:14
slonopotamusnedko, no, three. it's kb is even worse than n810 one00:14
crashanddieits00:14
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nedkojavispedro: i run too much opernsource projects already :P00:14
slonopotamusyeah, its00:14
crashanddiesorry for being the nazi spazi00:14
nedkocrashanddie: yes i do, htc dream looks "right"00:15
qwerty12_N810I wanna see Mer on this baby: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/popup.dsp?id=30800:15
nedkoand it has bigger kbd00:15
slonopotamuscrashanddie, np00:15
crashanddienedko: do you own one?00:15
nedkoi dont00:15
Mekthe n900 keyboard just takes a little time getting used to, but I did found it quite workable...00:15
crashanddieqwerty12_N810: the sodomite m90?00:15
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crashanddieor somalianite00:15
qwerty12_N810Ja00:15
javispedrowell qwerty12_N810, I can help with the icd port for that one ;)00:16
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qwerty12_N810On the plus side, its keyboard is better spaced than the one on the N900...00:16
qwerty12_N810javispedro: lol00:16
nedkodamn, even eeepc with gsm module will be better!00:16
* nedko uses BIG pockets00:16
lardman|homewhy will it be better in your opinion?00:17
javispedrothen go buy the nokbook, then port maemo to it :P00:17
nedkobecause it will be a portable pc with gsm capabilities00:17
nedkonetbooks have no gsm option :S00:17
javispedrowrong answer. half of this channel considers the n8x0 a pc...00:17
lardman|homeindeed, and I think a Porche 911 Turbo will be better than the N900 too, at driving along a road00:18
javispedronedko, the nokbook does.00:18
* nedko googles00:18
javispedrobut if you mean voice, then I don't know.00:18
lardman|homedifferent usage cases00:18
nedkoi mean voice, yes00:18
* javispedro imagines someone talking to a netbook00:19
nedkoi use two portable things atm, my usb disk (from where i boot my customized os on every computer) and a gsm00:19
nedkojavispedro: tip: handset00:20
nedkoheadset00:20
nedko:]00:20
javispedrobah, a featurephone is cheaper than a btooth handset.00:20
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nedkojavispedro: what is this "nokbook" thing?00:20
javispedrohttp://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=133668300:20
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caringihi... any news about the n900?00:21
javispedrooh my. 30 pages already in tmo about the nokbook?00:21
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nedkojavispedro: i fail to understand what is it00:22
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javispedroa netbook.00:22
johnsqnedko: expensive netbook with gsm/g3 buildin00:22
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nedkohow much expensive?00:22
crashanddiebtw, any recent dell computer + £20 = laptop with 3g00:23
crashanddie(most dell laptops have the socket for the sim card, you just need to install the 3g module under the keyboard00:23
nedkobah this android thing does not even have ssh built in00:24
* nedko wants phone with internet and full screen terminal + ssh00:24
qwerty12_N810That would be the N900, but "it's too ugly"00:25
johnsqnedko: n810 + any bluetooth phone00:25
slonopotamusnedko, phone + n810 + gentoo in console mode :D00:25
nedkoslonopotamus: in a single device00:25
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slonopotamus+ tape00:25
johnsqnedko: some tape00:25
nedkohtc dream + external app is also an option00:26
johnsqslonopotamus: ^500:26
slonopotamusjohnsq, :D00:26
javispedrotime to get all my tired arguments about why a phone and a pda are not the same00:26
nedkoin fact if i can boot the os on my usb disk on this device it would be great00:26
GadgetoidIs it just me, or does Tear not work with download links on Maemo.org?00:26
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nedkojavispedro: tell me!00:26
javispedrophone=small enough so that people don't laugh at you when you put it near your ear00:27
javispedropda=big screen, stylus driven, data input00:27
Gadgetoidjavispedro: don't be absurd, "side-talkin" is the pinnacle of cool!00:27
* javispedro is reminded of the taco n-gage00:28
* qwerty12_N810 gives Gadgetoid my old, smashed-up N-Gage00:28
qwerty12_N810(No, I did not use it for calls)00:28
GadgetoidHahaha, I used a newer style N-Gage for quite a while00:28
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nedkojavispedro: phone - a small thing that talks bluetooth to the pda, what are your arguments?00:29
javispedrooh, I already have that nedko, is called featurephone.00:30
javispedroand it's very, very cheap.00:30
nedkolike zero?00:30
javispedroironically, moving the gsm radio to the smaller device (the featurephone) results in a much cheaper device set.00:30
nedko:D00:30
javispedrothan having the gsm radio in the bigger one.00:31
javispedroah, the wonders of the modern day.00:31
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nedkohtc dream is ok, android is acceptable, there is a ssh app for android, i can eventually hack maemo in00:32
javispedrogood luck :)00:33
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nedkoi still dont get why n900 has so small kbd00:33
nedkothey need lot of surface between display and the rest or what?00:34
javispedroI guess that's the reason the htc dream has that "piece of plastic" with the buttons on the side.00:35
javispedro(which I consider ugly, btw)00:35
nedkoit is much prettier than a mutilated keyboard00:36
nedkoalso it is available when you use the device in "phone mode"00:36
javispedroit makes typing harder too.00:36
nedkogood point00:37
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divide_by_zeroI've heard terrible things about the N97 keyboard. Is the N900 similar?00:38
lardman|homeit's not been released yet....00:39
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pupnik_is size of n810 keys perfect for you?00:42
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pupnik_hope the text input makes ppl happy00:44
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nedkoif it is not a phone too, size of keys does not matter00:47
derfIt's not the size of the N810 keys that's the problem, it's that it takes like 18lbs of force to push one down.00:47
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nedkoit is not a phone00:48
nedkomajor obstacle :)00:48
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pupnik_maybe a bit less force00:49
mavhccan't press the keys with fingernail, have to use pad of finger00:50
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nedkoor touchscreen00:50
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mavhcit is stupid when you can type quicker with the stylus00:53
nedkoright00:55
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vladovghi01:08
vladovg:)01:08
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vladovgfirs i won to poligaise for my bad english01:09
vladovgkan ani one help mi with n81001:09
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vladovgay have some kustons01:09
vladovg:)01:09
vladovgand bad english01:10
lardman|homejust ask01:10
gomiamvladovg: XDDDD01:10
vladovg:D01:10
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vladovggomiam01:11
vladovg:)01:11
vladovgits bad ay know01:11
vladovghaha01:11
javispedrowhat is the question?01:12
vladovgfirs ay am from bulgaria01:13
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nedkovladovg: i az sym ot tam :)01:15
javispedrofine. what's your problem with your n810?01:15
vladovgoff01:17
vladovgstrasna izlagaciq01:17
vladovgsam s toq angliiski01:17
vladovgkato se stigne do pisane01:17
pupnik_start, start, start, start?01:17
andre__vladovg, please speak english.01:17
nedkovladovg: pitaj kakwoto imash da pitash, na anglijski01:18
vladovgsram01:18
pupnik_hheeh01:18
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lardman|homehang on01:19
lardman|homeI've been having a conversation of sorts01:19
vladovghttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=119080&postcount=1201:19
lardman|hometwo options, either mount the internal cards on the PC using mass-storage (which should just happen when you plug the cable into a PC)01:19
lardman|homeor install ssh on the N810, and then use SFTP/SCP on the PC to transfer files01:20
vladovghow to kopi Otg and Host01:20
lardman|homewhich directory are the files in that you want to copy?01:20
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vladovgusr/share/applications/hildon01:21
lardman|homeok, so you have to do it in two steps01:21
vladovgai hawe root premision in the cosole01:21
lardman|homefirst step is to copy (using the terminal application, or something like gpe-filemanager) to the SD card, then mount that on the PC and copy across from there01:22
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vladovgbut du nat now how to du it wit01:22
lardman|homeanyone have a better way?01:22
lardman|homewith the terminal?01:22
lardman|homeyou don't know how to use the terminal?01:22
vladovgay now how to use it01:23
lardman|homeok01:23
javispedroi think using the sd card would be easiest, everything else requires extra setup (sshd, etc.)01:23
lardman|homeyep01:23
vladovgai haw them in the SD01:23
vladovgay have emelFM201:24
lardman|homeok01:24
vladovgcopiet the Otg.sh and Host.sh01:24
vladovgwith no problems01:24
vladovgbut the host.desktop and otg.desktop01:25
vladovgar in usr/share/applications/hildon01:25
vladovgan file menadjer seis thet ai dont have premision01:25
lardman|homefilemanager doesn't run as root01:25
vladovgits a wei to meik it using the emelFM2 as root01:26
lardman|homeyou might be able to get root in a term, then try starting that app01:26
lardman|homebut you may as well just use "cp" and be done with it01:26
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vladovghttp://wardenclyffetower.com/MaemoFiles/emelfm2/EmelInfo.htm01:27
vladovgHow to run emelfm2 always with root permissions :01:27
vladovgEdit (as root) the /etc/sudoers file and add :01:27
vladovguser ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL (if you want user 'user' to sudo anything) -or-01:27
vladovguser ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/emelfm2 (if you just want 'user' to sudo emelfm2)01:27
vladovgThen edit (as root), the /usr/share/applications/hildon/emelfm2.desktop and set the exec line to read :01:27
vladovgExec=sudo /usr/bin/emelfm201:27
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vladovgand ay dont know how to du dis01:28
vladovgfrom consol01:28
lardman|hometo do this, you need to use "vi"01:28
vladovgvi ?01:28
lardman|homeit's a command line text editor01:29
javispedro(I guess it would be better to just install root and then do rootsh emelfm2?)01:29
lardman|homethe commands are complicated, you'll have to Google for them in your language01:29
lardman|homejavispedro: does that work?01:29
javispedrowell, I don't know, but I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't...01:29
vladovgai hew instalet root and ay am geting in root shel with sudo gainroot01:30
vladovgin console01:30
lardman|homeread about vi01:30
lardman|homeor try javispedro's suggestion01:30
vladovgok01:30
javispedrovladovg, write "emelfm2" in root shell and Enter.01:30
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lardman|homebut really, it will be easier to just copy these two files using "cp" if that's all you need to do01:31
vladovgay just won to start Host mode01:31
lardman|homethat you can do with an applet iirc01:31
lardman|homeanyone know which one it is off hand?01:32
vladovgok01:32
vladovgkan any one ken sow mi how to du it step bay step01:32
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vladovgif its not tu impudently01:33
lardman|homehang on a moment01:33
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lardman|homeusb-otg-plugin01:36
lardman|homedoes that sound familiar to anyone?01:36
GadgetoidHmm, I've farked apt!01:36
GadgetoidThinks I don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives  even after purging it01:36
lardman|homevladovg: try installing usb-otg-plugin from the Application Manager01:36
vladovgok01:37
lardman|homeit will add a new icon up near the battery/wifi/sound ones01:38
lcuk2Gadgetoid, maybe you actually dont01:39
Gadgetoidlcuk2: I think I do, but I could be wrong, I had to reboot mid wormux install as everything ground to a halt01:39
lcuk2df01:39
lcuk2is your friend :)01:39
* lcuk2 never thought he would know a linux command off by heart01:40
lardman|home.....ls01:40
lardman|home:p01:40
lardman|homecd even!01:40
lcuk2dir ftw01:40
Gadgetoidps01:40
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lardman|homels used to work on NT iirc01:40
lcuk2lardman, i have a script called cdliqbase01:40
lcuk2that i run from start of a console01:40
vladovgin manager ay have onli usbcontrol applet01:40
GadgetoidNow apt just seems completely farked, and Application Manager crashes out (presumably due to apt returning an error state)01:40
vladovgand it du nothig01:40
lardman|homevladovg: that might work for you01:40
vladovgafter instal is lokeiteth in extras01:41
lardman|homevladovg: you probably need to reboot for it to appear01:41
lcuk2Gadgetoid, run df01:41
vladovgstartet enda du nothing01:41
lcuk2it tells you amount of space on partitions01:41
lardman|homevladovg: let me install it and have a look01:41
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lcuk2holy moly!01:41
* lcuk2 has a flashing cursor01:41
lcuk2small things ;)01:41
vladovgay have OS2008 43-701:42
lardman|homehttps://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3328/usb-otg-plugin_0.0_armel.deb01:42
lardman|hometry that link01:42
vladovgmoment01:43
qwerty12_N810lcuk2: With great power comes great responsibility01:43
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lcuk2great responsibility comes with great power consumption01:44
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Gadgetoiddarn flammit!01:45
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jhfordi am finding that when i disconnect from wifi then reconnect back, any tcp sessions i have (like ssh) stay open01:47
jhfordis there any way to stop this?01:47
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Woollysup crackas01:48
lardman|homeI actually quite like that feature01:48
lardman|homehi Woolly01:48
GadgetoidI didn't know the cache was on the tiny, tiny internal memory01:48
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javispedroi guess reducing the interval between keep-alives would help, but don't know to do that in ssh :P01:48
Woollyhowdy lardman|home01:48
lardman|homeGadgetoid: hmm, I thought var was in a ramfs?01:49
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Gadgetoidlardman|home: I'm not sure, but wherever it is, it's not big enough :D01:49
lardman|homedon't worry, I don't think it is now I think about it01:50
vladovgyeees01:50
vladovg:)01:50
lardman|homewell you could symlink it to the card01:50
lardman|homevladovg: works?01:50
vladovgyes01:50
vladovg:)01:50
lardman|homegood01:50
vladovggreath01:50
lcuk2Gadgetoid, are you all filled up01:50
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Gadgetoidlardman|home: yeah I was thinking that, the cache anyway01:50
vladovgthenk01:50
lardman|homeno problem01:50
Gadgetoidlcuk2: Yeah, I think so01:50
vladovgeveryone01:51
Gadgetoidlcuk2: must be some half downloaded cruft gunking it up somewhere01:51
lcuk2does df say like 99% or 100% on /01:51
Woollyin the jungle, the might jungle01:51
lardman|homethe lion sleeps tonight...?01:52
Gadgetoidlcuk2: df is confusing, it's wrapping odly01:52
lcuk2theres a few good places to get rid of quite a lot of space01:54
lardman|homeGadgetoid: ssh in01:54
lcuk2translations for things not your country01:54
lcuk2themes01:54
lcuk2pdf files01:54
Woollylardman|home: how's the barcode stuff going?01:54
lardman|homethat random avi01:54
lardman|homeWoolly: slow, been doing other stuff01:54
lcuk2uninstall prgs and remove their crap from /usr/share if it remains01:54
Woollylardman|home: ditto01:54
lardman|homeWoolly: but still doing a bit now and again, will get there soon enough, couple of weeks I guess unless I suddenly get very inspired and hack at it for more than 15min at a go01:55
lcuk2lardman|home, how did you know about that random avi, i kept it in /home/user/code/private/h/stuff/new folder/r/hot.avi01:55
lcuk2just so you wouldnt find ti01:55
lcuk2it01:55
Gadgetoidlcuk2: you'd think a bit more of that hefty 2gb internal card would be assigned to such functions01:56
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Woollylardman|home: haha, I'll be able to lend a hand as of a week yesterday. I've got a meeting to prep for Friday next week, but after that, I'm all about the barcodes01:56
lcuk2Gadgetoid, i feel your pain01:56
lardman|homebecause you should have named the path like this: /home/user/code/.private/.h/.stuff/.new folder/.r/.hot.avi01:56
lcuk2i install build-essential on my device01:56
lcuk2and then all the -dev libraries01:56
lcuk2for liqbase :)01:56
lcuk2it is a 2 step operation after a reflash01:56
lardman|homeget on with writing your python bindings01:56
GadgetoidIncidentally I did install liqbase01:57
lardman|homeha! that's what's done the damage! :D01:57
lcuk2:D01:57
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javispedropython bindings?? hum. with the renderer being done in C it may actually be a good idea :)01:58
lcuk2yeah tis :)01:58
lcuk2its not just the renderer - the cells also :)01:58
lardman|homeWoolly: you still looking to do your library lookup thing?01:59
Woollylardman|home: aaaayeman01:59
Woollylardman|home: how come?01:59
lardman|homeI should do some testing of zbar, perhaps this week, if it all works ok will pass it over to you and you can do your lookup stuff with it02:00
Woollycool beans02:00
jhfordwhat do the r and d flags do on maemo?02:00
lardman|homeI'm still porting my C GTK/sqlite code over to handle databases, etc., which is what's taking the time02:00
lardman|homejhford: allow you to set other flags; allow gainroot to be used; make the power-on button more/less sensitive, I forget which02:01
lcuk2jhford, if you have to ask, they arent for you02:01
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Gadgetoidlcuk2: can't seem to remove anything with apt, either, due to the package that's not correctly installed, ha!02:01
Woollylardman|home: that's fine. I have python bindings for batoo too, so we could always compare the results to see whether that or zbar works the best02:01
jhfordlcuk2: how are you so sure02:01
lardman|homethere's a wiki page on it jhford02:01
jhfordmaybe they do exactly what i need02:01
jhfordlardman|home: thanks, i will look for it02:01
lardman|homeWoolly: sounds good02:01
lardman|homeright, bed time for me02:01
Woollylardman|home: there's always the possibility for reading directly from the FB at say 5fps, to remove the need for gstreamer02:01
GAN800Fucking Apple02:02
jhfordanyone know why the n810 doesn't terminate tcp sessions correctly02:02
WoollyGAN800: blasphemer!02:02
lcuk2Gadgetoid, do you still have liqbase instally02:02
lcuk2installed02:02
lardman|homeWoolly: from the FB (framebuffer)?02:02
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lcuk2jhford, it was a joke02:02
javispedroGAN800, what have they done this time?02:02
GAN800Don't give me a line about having to pay for repairs with your Honda because you didn't buy the extended warranty.02:02
Gadgetoidlcuk2: can't uninstall it02:02
Woollylardman|home: yeah, that's what I'm doing for my screen capture stuff. I can get about 30fps to ram.02:02
lardman|homeWoolly: hmm, interesting02:02
lcuk2Gadgetoid, ok, head into /usr/share/liqbase/media02:02
GAN800javispedro, leaky G5. Their repair failed.02:03
lcuk2there are at least one large single image you can remove :)02:03
javispedro:P02:03
lardman|homeWoolly: I'd never looked at doing it that way02:03
lcuk2about 2mb i think02:03
lcuk2might give you room to do whatever else you have to do02:03
GAN800Giving me the runaround the whole time.02:03
Woollylardman|home: I've ordered a super speedy class 6 SD card for my N800, which I'm going to use the 48Mhz patch on, to see if I can write any faster than 15fps02:03
lardman|homeWoolly: is the buffer memory mapped somewhere in kernel space?02:03
Gadgetoidlcuk2: bunch of pngs, sheesh02:03
lcuk2depends which version you have02:03
Woollylardman|home: it was considered, but it wasn't necessary. I can read at the refresh rate02:04
lardman|homeWoolly: from what though, a /dev file then?02:04
lardman|homejhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode02:04
Woollylardman|home: /dev/fb yeah. It's in C though.02:04
jhfordlardman|home: thanks :)02:05
lardman|homejhford: np02:05
* jhford wonders what a watchdog is02:05
lardman|homeWoolly: ah, I was thinking the camera stuff was all hidden away and not exposed for mere mortals02:05
javispedrojhford, how can the n810 terminate tcp sessions correctly if you're disconnecting it from wi-fi the hard way you said? ;)02:05
jhfordin the process of shutting down the wifi gracefully it should send termination messages02:05
lardman|homejhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/Troubleshooting_boot_issues02:06
Woollylardman|home: oh jings, what a nutter I am. I'm capturing frames from the screen, not the camera! woops!02:06
javispedroah, the soft way then :P02:06
lardman|homehmm, was wondering02:06
lardman|hometoo late in the evening02:06
lardman|homefor me too!02:06
lardman|homeand on that note I'm off02:06
Woollylardman|home: confusion avoided. exactly!02:06
Woollylardman|home: take it easy :)02:06
lcuk2nite somin02:06
lardman|homenight all02:06
lcuk2simon02:06
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* lcuk2 pounced02:06
javispedroeven tho do ssh sessions between desktop linux gracefully terminate if you just do "ifdown eth0"?02:07
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javispedrocause icd notifies for sure, but ssh is not listening to that kind of notifications02:07
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erandhi addison02:10
erandso how should i set up my device to optimize it as a medical resource02:11
Gadgetoidlcuk2: surely a ln -s  to a dir on the mm1 should help me?02:11
lcuk2which dir02:11
Gadgetoidlcuk2:  from /var/cache/apt/archives02:12
Woollyerand: a medical resource?02:12
lcuk2and are you sure mmc1/mmc2 is MOUNTED at boot time when the folder you shifted it there02:12
lcuk2/required02:12
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Gadgetoidlcuk2: not so worried about that, I just want it to give me some extra space to do the removals02:12
AddisonHey Woolly, are you interested?02:12
lcuk2Gadgetoid, im not sure what gets done and when02:12
WoollyAddison: what's the plan?02:12
lcuk2but theres software updater that might expect things02:13
lcuk2i would be nervous doing that without knowing the boot order - but you might be ok02:13
Gadgetoidlcuk2: methinks I'll just reflash02:13
AddisonWell, I'm currently having a private chat with erand.  Any way to do a three way or find a different forum?02:13
Woollya three way, ooh err02:13
qwerty12_N810lol02:13
WoollyI'm not sure, what client are you using?02:14
Gadgetoidlcuk2: but cheers for your help!02:14
javispedro/var/cache/apt/archives is not really required02:14
javispedroapt-get clean will purge most of it02:14
AddisonWe're both using java.freenode.net, Woolly.  We're both kind of computer naive.02:14
WoollyAddison: gutter02:14
WoollyAddison: 2 ticks02:14
Gadgetoidjavispedro: it's empty, but I've got something else eating up all my space, and it's hiding02:14
lcuk2Addison, just choose a random chan name #addison_wolly_lovein02:14
lcuk2and join it02:14
Woollyoooh yeah a lovein02:15
javispedroand how do you know is /var/cache/apt/archives?02:15
Woollythat sounds fun02:15
lcuk2(not sure if specific chan name is legal02:15
lcuk2but the idea is the same02:15
WoollyAddison: click on lcuk2's link02:15
Gadgetoidjavispedro: it's not, it's just on the same disk02:15
lcuk2just pick something and all join it02:15
AddisonDid you just call me a tick, Wolly?  Name calling....  That's real mature there boogerbutt!  *lol*02:15
AddisonOkay Wolly.02:16
Addison#addison_wolly_lovein02:16
pupnik_ppppppppppppppplease, addison02:16
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lcuk2in your client, type "/join #addison_wolly_lovein"02:16
WoollyAddison: 2 ticks = 2 seconds02:16
* javispedro imagines the caos that can be created in such an unmoderated channel02:17
lcuk2thats not chaose02:17
Woollyoh dear god, i'm about to run out of bats02:17
javispedrochaos! chaos! yes, i know, i need to run a spell checker.02:17
* Woolly passes javispedro mavis beacon02:18
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javispedroif only gnome would allow me to use the en_GB aspell dict while using es_ES locale02:18
lcuk2damn i thought you gave him bacon02:18
Woollyhar02:18
GadgetoidHa, the biggest inconvenience following a reflash is repairing my bluetooth keyboard02:18
javispedrodamn gtk and their useless spell checker without "change language" option02:19
javispedro~curse gtk02:19
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, gtk !02:19
GadgetoidOr just a thousand camels, not sure which would be worse02:19
Woollyi thought that said moist sensitive regions02:20
GadgetoidHaha02:20
Woollyerand: click #addison_wolly_lovein02:21
GadgetoidI'm really failing to get the N810s concept of internal memory, a paltry 256mb that gets filled up with applications and cache... or am I talking ball-locks02:21
javispedro(i am just hoping that a gtk guru happens to be here and just tells me "to switch dictionaries in the gnome/gtk spell checker, just press Ctrl+F+F2, then Alt+F17, then repeteadly hit the screen with your head, and your dinner should be served!")02:22
qwerty12_N810Ctrl-Alt-Backspace worked a treat02:23
lcuk2Gadgetoid, how long have you had device?02:23
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javispedroI curse you, Ubuntu, for disabling the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace killer combo by default.02:24
Gadgetoidlcuk2: A matter of hours :) this one anyway02:24
javispedroDebian, my personal preference, gives you enough rope to hang yourself :D02:24
lcuk2:)02:25
qwerty12_N810Debian: The distro for suicidal people02:25
Gadgetoidlcuk2: So I'm quite rusty on my N810 kung-fu, I never remember encountering this before although I did hose the last one into a reboot loop02:25
lcuk2well, all the apps you have grow and each of them has more stuff needed02:25
lcuk2and maybe 18 months ago the apps you normally use were much smaller on their own02:26
lcuk2so maybe, like what i am in process of doing, app developers need to be bitchslapped and told to reduce the footprint of their packages02:26
lcuk2cos the motherfuskers are getting too bloated02:27
lcuk2</rant>02:27
Gadgetoidlcuk2: I'd rather have more than 256mb in which to store them!02:27
javispedro~clone02:28
infoboti heard clone is a clone card - i.e. a worthless, unreliable piece of junk.  Is all that extra headache really worth the few dollars you're about to save?02:28
lcuk2yes of course, but theres feck all that can be done for us owners of n810s02:28
javispedroO.o02:28
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lcuk2javispedro, normal consumer will not go throughthat trouble02:28
lcuk2normal user wont02:28
javispedroI didn't either, but then 256MiB is enough for me,02:28
lcuk2its just enough for me too :)02:29
lcuk2but i cant install any heavy apps anymore02:29
GadgetoidIn retrospect, I'll not try to install boswars02:29
GadgetoidOr liqbase02:29
javispedroGadgetoid, doesn't boswars have a install-to-card option?02:29
GadgetoidYes, which I used... I think02:29
javispedroI implemented one of those in openttd just for the sake of 8 MiB ;)02:29
lcuk2oi! Gadgetoid that wasnt the intention lol02:29
lcuk2its all the *other* apps :P02:30
javispedronah, liqbase is the culprit. last time I tried it was, like, 3 GiB or what?02:30
GadgetoidI wonder if I failed at installing Boswars02:30
qwerty12_N810...that are whorish, like liqbase02:30
lcuk2nah, hasnt been 3gib for ages now02:30
lcuk2it comes on 2 dvds02:30
lcuk2or are they blueray?02:31
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javispedrodon't forget the bluray with the sample sketch database02:31
GadgetoidWell the nokia update utility failed to download the firmware, so here I go hacking at ye olde command line again02:31
GadgetoidExtra irritating, as I've yet to enable SSH access02:31
javispedroit's the first time I ever see that utility fail02:31
javispedroeither way you can still download the image manually and I think the windows flaser will accept it.02:32
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lcuk2Gadgetoid, liqbase itself is becoming much lighter and the greatest majority of stuff in /media is going - the media that is required there will be per specific app installed02:33
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Gadgetoidlcuk2: why the hell can't apt simply remove the half installed wormux and ignore it02:35
lcuk2i dunno02:35
lcuk2did u delete some files and make some space02:36
GadgetoidIt shouldn't need any space to remove something02:36
GadgetoidI tell it to remove wormux, and it harps on about wanting to install wormux-data02:36
lcuk2no, but if apt was in the middle of something it has to finish it02:36
lcuk2give it some space and let it do what it needs02:36
GadgetoidHah, I'm trying :D02:37
GadgetoidIt wants about 47mb plus 50mb to expand02:37
Gadgetoidor 50mb archives, 60mb after unpacking02:37
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lcuk2could be worse lol02:38
pupnik_wormux is a bit heavy02:38
Woollybed time for me02:38
Woollynn all02:38
GadgetoidI suspect that's why it froze mid install02:38
pupnik_cu woo--02:38
javispedroGadgetoid, if you've filled up / up to a certain point, you won't be able to delete anything at all. Not even a 1 KiB file.02:38
Gadgetoidnn Woolly02:38
GadgetoidSheesh javispedro02:39
lcuk2nite Woolly02:39
Woollycheerio guys02:39
javispedronite02:39
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qwerty12_N810gn02:39
lcuk2chirpy bunch tonight :P normally miserable buggers when someone says gnite02:39
pupnik_1:39 !  Lava lamp time!02:39
javispedrolcuk2, :D02:40
qwerty12_N810pupnik_: I thought you were gonna come out with something exciting like "LSD trip time!"02:40
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b-man16~seen xnt1402:41
infobotxnt14 <i=60e8885f@gateway/web/freenode/x-hqfjwggtuuuzttla> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 22h 5m 49s ago, saying: 'titanium for maemo?'.02:41
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b-man16:P02:41
Gadgetoidaha, deleted the wesnoth game dir, found it buried02:42
Gadgetoidapt is going to hate me02:42
b-man16lol xD02:42
pupnik_i like deleting things02:43
Gadgetoidapt "Yo, Gaddy, you've been fsckin deletin' mah files again, aintchoo!?"02:43
pupnik_"i dont think i need that"02:43
javispedro"/vmlinuz? sounds like porn. gone!"02:43
pupnik_"ooh, *that's* what that's for..."02:43
GadgetoidI extracted my first cross compiling toolkit over my root fs :)02:43
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b-man16LOL02:44
GadgetoidThat never booted again, ev er02:44
pupnik_hheh02:44
pupnik_oww :)02:44
GadgetoidTis only my dev station anyway, or a crappy slow-ass, low res netbook02:45
GadgetoidWhich still has a large portion of its hard disk dedicated to a very dodgy installation of OSX02:45
EdLinGadgetoid: are you upgrading to snow leopard? Less dodgy. :-)02:46
GadgetoidEdLin: Indeed, although it might take me a while to chance it on my workstation02:47
EdLinGadgetoid: you'll also free up 7GB of space, so you'll need less space for it on the HD.02:47
javispedrowow.02:48
EdLinGadgetoid: they stripped PPC and compressed the framework files.02:48
EdLinamong other things02:48
GadgetoidEdLin: Sexy, I haven't been following it in much depth02:48
GadgetoidI have a recently bought 13" MBP anyway, so I'll get an upgrade disk for about £7.9902:48
EdLinthey also added some security features already present in Vista and Linux. ;-)02:49
EdLinof course, Vista's craptacular in most other ways.02:49
* GeneralAntilles stabs Apple.02:49
GadgetoidYou mean really irritating pop up dialogue boxes asking me to confirm every single action I perform EdLin?02:50
EdLinGadgetoid: that's just one problem with Vista.02:50
GadgetoidThe dialogue box that pops up when I try to run downloaded files is annoying enough02:50
GadgetoidI run Vista at work, it's tragic02:51
EdLinVista had poor performance as well. At least they took care of most of Vista's problems with Windows 7, but W7 should have been what Vista was in the first place.02:51
GadgetoidStill no consistent file dialogue boxes, still can't handle more than whatever-the-hell-number-of-window-handles it can handle02:51
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EdLinconsistency is not something you'll find in Windows program interfaces.02:52
Macerguess he's not there :) slopotamus left02:52
GeneralAntillesQuarantine is the worst.02:52
Maceri still have my gentoo install but i'm working on using mer more02:52
GeneralAntillesI wish there were a real way to disable it.02:52
Macerwant to try to make a theme for it02:52
Macerand edit the menu02:52
Maceralthough i should just wait for 0.1602:52
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GadgetoidI just uninstalled tons of files and it's showing even less free memory than I had before... enigma wrapped in a mystery02:53
javispedroGadgetoid, reboot.02:53
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EdLinI wish Nokia didn't make the N8x0's sound system closed-source, I use my N810 as a replacement for iPod and that's a real show-stopper for running non-mameo OSs on it for me.02:53
Gadgetoidjavispedro: Ahhh the ubiquitous I.T. problem solver02:54
GadgetoidGoddamnit, application manager still crashes out02:54
javispedroGadgetoid, if you're sure you're actually deleted the files, that may actually help02:54
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Macerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Fluxbox02:54
Maceror not heh02:54
Macerawesome!02:54
* Macer does this02:54
GadgetoidI'm pretty sure I've completely hosed it :)02:54
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Macerhaha02:56
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pupnik_javispedro, the frameskip is good03:03
javispedrothe auto is better on the latest build I gave you03:03
pupnik_it looks good even when slow because the next frame jumps to the right time oosition03:03
javispedrodepends on game I guess :)03:03
pupnik_so movement isnt so jerky as in other emus03:03
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javispedroyeah, and sound slows down gracefully.03:04
pupnik_tried scping a large file yet?03:04
javispedroI must admit the original authors have done a great job.03:04
javispedroat the design03:04
javispedro(snes9x)03:04
javispedropupnik_, to slow down the thing? it already maxes the cpu by itself ;)03:05
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pupnik_it does€?03:05
pupnik_brb03:05
pupnik_oh so late03:05
pupnik_another time03:05
javispedroyeah, will go to bed soon too03:06
neoatpersoconi have a doubt, the edje_cc exists only on sdk? or has a maemo version to download? :s03:06
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javispedroi'm idly looking at the network play code03:06
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pupnik_ok one game runs autoskip, 16khz, -y at 63-74% cpu03:12
pupnik_plenty left for the ssh session in irssi03:13
pupnik_without lags03:13
javispedroi don't know why it does that...03:13
javispedroother than the autoskip code still being wrong...03:14
pupnik_heh i kind of like it03:14
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MaceN8x0hell yeah03:14
MaceN8x0fluxbox in mer03:14
Firebirdhmm, how do you generate that really long string that's supposed to be the app manager icon in the control file?03:14
javispedropupnik_, and does wonders for esd, since if left without cpu time esd (being user space) suffers.03:14
timeless_mbpEdLin: what part was closed source?03:15
timeless_mbpdid you mean media player?03:15
pupnik_heh hilighting text in xterm uses much cpu03:15
timeless_mbpmost people replace that w/ ukmp or canola03:15
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timeless_mbppupnik_: it's probably poking the x clipboard03:16
MaceN8x0with left and right mouse pointers03:16
pupnik_hmmmm how about keyboard based text hilighting in a terminal?03:17
lcuk2pupnik_, does it take cpu whilst its just sitting there with a selection03:17
lcuk2or whilst you are moving cursor03:17
pupnik_why did i never think of it before03:17
pupnik_no lcuk203:17
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pupnik_javis - i just let the music play :)03:18
pupnik_32khz sounds perfectly clear - except that metallic noise sound03:19
lcuk2pupnik_, it wasnt a yes no lol03:19
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MaceN8x0wow03:21
MaceN8x0tear does not agree with fluuxbox03:21
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javispedropupnik_, maybe port openspc++ or a only-audio emu for that ;)03:23
javispedrolol there's a java snes emu03:24
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FirebirdSDL programs run ultra slow on the maemo5 SDK, is this due to the "betaness"/not fully done?05:48
Firebirdthey're also blurry in addition to being slow :/05:48
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MaceN8x0anybody here running fluxbox in mer?05:58
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Stskeepsmorning09:43
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johnxmorning :)09:46
johnxchosen a more respectable hour to wake up today? :D09:46
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JaffaMorning, all10:28
|KaE|Hello10:29
Stskeepsmorn jaffa10:29
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Andy80ih11:03
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X-FadeYes, talk doesn't respond.12:10
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X-FadePreemptive response :)12:10
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Proteous_I RESPONDED!!!12:11
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X-FadeVDVsx: Can I reserve a round-table session slot at the summit?12:27
X-FadeVDVsx: I want to organize a round-table for discussing future autobuilder, extras, interfaces options/needs.12:28
VDVsxX-Fade, in the main schedule, or you want one of the BoF/hands on rooms ?12:29
X-FadeVDVsx: The smallest room should be enough. I don't expect large crowds.12:29
X-FadeVDVsx: And there is a room available that is perfect for round-tables as there is a big table in there ;)12:30
VDVsxX-Fade, ok, fine, should be doable12:30
VDVsxX-Fade, this one: http://www.westergasfabriek.nl/english/engels_zalen_detail.php?detail=45312:32
X-FadeVDVsx: Organizers: Ed Bartosh, Alexander Kanevskiy and Niels Breet12:32
X-FadeVDVsx: Yes. That one.12:32
pupnik_important topic12:33
X-FadeVDVsx: We have that one too, right?12:33
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VDVsxX-Fade, yup12:33
VDVsxX-Fade, ah, I see why you want this room: "furnished as a meeting room with a bar" :P12:33
X-FadeVDVsx: Well, that is the small thing on the right in the picture. It's not much ;)12:33
VDVsxeheh12:34
X-FadeVDVsx: Although I can stand on the balcony and shout at the people there ;)12:34
X-FadeMuhahhahaa..12:34
VDVsxlol12:34
X-FadeVDVsx: Sunday, track3 11:00 ;)12:36
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VDVsxX-Fade, this room will be much more flexible ;)12:37
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X-FadeVDVsx: Ok, track4 then ;)12:38
X-FadeVDVsx: Good luck hacking the wiki table..12:38
VDVsxI've to ping dneary, if he's already back from holidays, we have a lot of things to decide now :(12:39
VDVsxX-Fade, please add a entry here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions12:39
X-FadeVDVsx: Will do.12:39
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X-FadeVDVsx: Ok, added request.12:48
VDVsxX-Fade, thanks12:50
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* timelys sighs13:20
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lardman|homeyay, my discussion karma has reached beyond 70 for the first time in ages! :)13:23
X-Fadelardman|home: A little more than that I hope?13:24
lardman|homeyeah, 246 or thereabouts which is nice :)13:24
lardman|homethanks for sorting that out13:24
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VDVsxlardman|home, are you are back to maemo.org front page, ehehe13:27
lardman|homeyeah I was just then when I looked, but that might be my cache13:27
lardman|home:)13:27
timelysIs andre around?13:30
VDVsxandre__, ^^13:32
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pupnik_wow larmdman is maemo.org member since January 1, 197013:40
timelysSounds good13:41
lardman|homepupnik_: yep, am feeling my age :)13:41
pupnik_i wore through n810 keyboard13:46
pupnik_looks kind of cool13:46
pupnik_or paint coating13:47
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pupnik_think of all the tech that just goes into durable coating processes13:47
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tigertwow14:06
tigertthats pretty hc14:06
tigerti didnt get that on mine yet14:06
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lardman|homeyou need to use it on the beach more :)14:08
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tigertdefinitely :)14:15
lardman|homeI hear that palm fronds might also add to the abrasive nature, so make sure it's at least sub-tropical ;)14:16
timelysI wore through my n81's rocker during its first month of use14:22
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* RST38h moos evilly and says hello14:51
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qwerty12_N810hellmoo14:52
RST38hheya qwerty14:52
* timelys grumbles14:52
timelysMy boxes tried to move to a server room14:52
timelysBut the room didn't have a dvi display connector14:53
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Andy80hi all14:55
qwerty12_N810hello14:56
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RST38hOh shit, some guy wrote a GameBoy Classic emulator in JavaScript14:59
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RST38hRuns at ~10% of the real hw speed on 1.1GHz U7700 with FF315:00
suihkulokkiurl?15:00
Myrttiurl or it didn't happen15:00
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* RST38h feels bad about giving that url15:03
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jaskalol15:04
RST38hBut let us say we are testing it: http://www.hispashare.com/test/gb/15:04
* suihkulokki is already preparing a bugreport for timelys about "slow js performance on gb emulator"15:04
pupnik_hahaha15:05
RST38hsuih: I am almost sure Nokia is adding JUST-USE-TEAR bug resolution to bugzilla as we speak15:05
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pupnik_do any of you have url launching from xterm working?15:06
pupnik_i hate hilighting urls15:06
RST38hpupnik: qwerty15:06
RST38hpupnik: Also refer to the xterm bug tracker about it15:07
pupnik_k ty15:07
RST38hpupnik: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=491415:08
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* pupnik_ tries to hilight that :)15:11
pupnik_got it on the 7th try (without the "h" from http)15:12
RST38hyea, it never gets the first h15:12
qwerty12_N810irssi on a tablet sounds.. painful :)15:12
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* RST38h uses ircii on the tablet15:13
RST38hit's ok15:13
pupnik_qw(tab) - it is the xterm - i am in ssh/screen15:13
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RST38hEhehehe: http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/msft-us-cockup.jpg15:13
javispedrolol photoshop disasters.15:14
pupnik_ making the rounds since yesterday15:14
RST38hThe original black guy looks photoshopped as well though15:14
RST38hOr maybe business people have got more flexible necks than the rest of us...15:15
pupnik_i saw the links appear in three independent chats within a few minutes15:15
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qwerty12_N810I'm a GNOME whore... give me XChat any day of the week15:15
adeusand the monitor has not cables15:15
adeusand is that a mac on a win ad15:15
lcukwouldnt be the first time15:15
pupnik_xchat should streamline common operations15:15
adeus-t15:16
RST38hAh dont you worry, will be long time until we get XChat for Fremantle =)15:16
javispedroyep, it's on photoshop disasters already: http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/15:16
pupnik_i am considering adding dpad+keyboard-based hilighiting to xchat15:16
javispedro(was going to tell you to submit it either way ;) )15:16
pupnik_i mean xterm15:17
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Andy80RST38h, why so long time?15:23
RST38hAndy80: The Fremantle UI is way farther from the standard GTK+ than Diablo UI15:24
RST38hAndy80: So, no more easy porting of gtk+ apps15:24
javispedroRST38h, but we can still have ugly non-integrated direct recompile apps ;)15:25
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Andy80RST38h, well, I know this but... I really did think someone was already working on it...15:25
qwerty12_N810It builds (and runs) fine; just wondering who's inclined to make it Fremantle-friendly (a.k.a finger-friendly)...15:25
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* RST38h does not consider the original GTK+/Hildon UI ugly15:27
RST38hThe Fremantle UI has got some BIG design problems15:27
andre__like?15:27
GeneralAntillesALERT subjective opinions to follow.15:27
Andy80RST38h, I don't like it so much if you wanna know, but it's only my own opinion15:27
andre__every opinion is subjective. "objective" simply does not exist.15:28
javispedro^^^ that opinion is also subjective.15:28
GeneralAntillesAndy80, have you used it? ;)15:28
GeneralAntillesI think it'd behoove everybody to wait until they've actually used it to pass real judgement.15:28
RST38hGAN: You know perfectly well that it is not a subjective opinion. I can tell you exactly what the problem is and doubt you will argue against it15:28
Andy80well... I could give you more details on why I don't like and what's wrong, but... as you said, is better to wait15:29
Andy80the screenshots are quite clear :)15:30
derfYes, much better to put off dealing with problems, since it always becomes easier the longer you wait and the more entrenched they become.15:30
* RST38h also has got some subjective complaits about the Fremantle UI but he has never voiced them here15:30
pupnik_how about we attach a dollar donation to each UI suggestion15:32
pupnik_see what people really value...15:32
Andy80pupnik_, maybe you mean "GETTING 1$ for each UI suggestion" :D15:32
andre__scrolling in long lists sucks. apart from that some stuff is quite great (no cancel buttons) that i see myself clicking outside of dialog popups on my desktop computer and wonder why the popup does not go away.15:32
pupnik_no, paying15:32
pupnik_if i really want x, i donate 80 euro15:33
RST38handre: ok, complaint #1 then: the Ok/Cancel buttons in dialogs waste space15:33
Andy80pupnik_, here in Italy we would say "col ca**o" :D15:33
andre__RST38h, there are no Cancel buttons.15:33
RST38handre: Look at the right side of ANY fremantle dialog screenshot15:33
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andre__but i agree they waste space, yes15:33
andre__which is not necessarily bad.15:33
RST38handre: there could just as well be cancel buttons, as the space is wasted anyway15:34
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RST38handre: Wasting space on the 3.5" display is BAD15:34
Andy80people are used to see Ok/Cancel in dialogs....15:34
X-FadeAndy80: People are used to use Windows too ;)15:34
wazdoh, UI speculations, I'm just in time :P15:34
Andy80it's not easy to understand for normal users15:34
andre__it's not always about what people expect. sometimes the difference is the interesting stuff.15:34
andre__Andy80, it is VERY easy after 5minutes of use15:34
andre__i even start missing the fremantle behaviour on my real computer15:35
GeneralAntillesAndy80, actually, I think it may be easier for normal users to understand than thoroughly entrenched users like us.15:35
RST38handre: and now we come to complaint #2: having to have at least a piece of the background on top wastes precious (for 800x480 display) vertical space15:35
pupnik_i want video calls displayed as blended-corner transparent overlays on my fully active desktop15:35
pupnik_who can i bribe?15:35
andre__RST38h, true... however if the designers don't want a crowded interface, i'm fine with that decision.15:36
RST38handre: and as a corollary of that, complaint #3: showing just 3-4 filenames in the file open dialog is silly, bordering with masochistic15:36
pupnik_i need a cg/shader guru15:36
RST38handre: this has nothing to do with crowded interface. In fact, it makes interface MORE crowded as app developers are forced to squeeze their UI into smaller space15:37
wazdRST38h: portrait mode? :)15:37
RST38hwazd: Remember, portrait mode is not officially supported in Fremantle =)15:37
javispedrowell RST38h, the default file open icon in diablo shows a whopping 3 files... ;)15:37
javispedros/icon/dialog/15:37
infobotjavispedro meant: well RST38h, the default file open dialog in diablo shows a whopping 3 files... ;)15:37
Andy80GeneralAntilles, anyway I agree with you. It's quite difficoult to judge a UI only basing our feelings on some screenshots, so I think we could just take note and reserve these things when the real product is out15:37
wazdRST38h: well, according to the screenshots it is supported :)15:37
RST38hwazd: Besides in portrait mode you are gonna get a problem with not showing complete filenames, but it is still too far in the future to complain about :)15:37
RST38hwazd: for the phone app only afaik15:37
RST38hwazd: And only because holding n900 horizontally to your ear is a cruel and unusual punishment =)15:38
RST38hjavis: Do they expect us to have no more than 3 files per deirectory or what?15:39
qwerty12_N810RST38h: 3rd-party applications are able to request a change of the orientation too15:39
RST38hqwerty: Yes, but we are talking about the base set of Fremantle apps, as shown in screenshots15:39
javispedroRST38h, I don't know, if you had not mentioned it I wouldn't have even noticed it.15:39
RST38hqwerty: Besides, there apparently was a problem with some new widgets not supporting vertical orientation )hopefully fixed)15:40
javispedrolol15:40
qwerty12_N810RST38h: true15:40
javispedrolocal news network here just run the microsoft black guy photo story15:40
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RST38hAnyway, just wanted to point out that Fremantle UI has got some quite objective problems. There is nothing "subjective" in wasting so much screen estate and not having a usable file dialog15:41
Mek(there is at least one other application in the basic fremantle apps that support orientation changing)15:41
RST38hMek: Which one? =)15:41
X-FadeRST38h: Maybe you don't need a file dialog with tracker integration ;)15:41
javispedroRST38h, let's forward port Diablo to the N900 ;)15:42
RST38hX-Fade: Ah, do not start me on tracker again...15:42
javispedroor Bora, fwiw.15:42
tbfAndy80: i can just agree with andre__: the cancel button is not needed. actually i caught myself to adopt fremantle's behaviour on my desktop already15:42
RST38hX-Fade: Let us just say that I fully expect a stick thread on talk.maemo.org titled "How to disable Tracker" and going for months to come15:42
tbfAndy80: clicked outside of dialogs and wondered why they didn't close15:42
RST38hs/stick/sticky15:42
RST38htbf: Ah, it is all fine, except cases when the dialog takes almost the whole screen15:43
andre__tbf, exactly the same here15:43
Andy80tbf, so... how do you close it?15:43
RST38htbf: once you only see a thin little strip of the outside space, clicking it becomes way less intuitive15:43
andre__Andy80, click on top.15:44
andre__that's why you cannot use the full size of the screen for popups and dialogs15:45
tbfRST38h: even when the app ignores all UI specs you'll still have about 50 px from the huge status bar15:45
Andy80andre__, not being able to use the full size for dialogs is the same (or worse) than wasting space puttin Ok/Cancel button :)15:45
tbfRST38h: but actually proper fremantle apps shall leave some gap between dialog and status bar. if you see this rule broken you can file a bug.15:45
RST38htbf: ah, clicking the title bar still closes the dialog?15:46
andre__Andy80, design decision. i'm fine with it...15:46
andre__RST38h, no - there should not be any dialog with their title bar at the very top of the screen15:47
tbfAndy80: guess you just need a device to try it yourself. it really works nicely. obviously a controversial feature, but definitely one of the better ideas of the UI designers ;-)15:47
tbfRST38h: yup15:47
andre__yupp15:47
javispedro"Nokia to offer ARM-based smartbook in addition to Booklet 3G, say Taiwan makers"15:48
tbfRST38h: uh. dialog titlebar no. statusbar. the statusbar is always visible.15:48
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=31555715:49
RST38htbf: Ok, so let me see15:49
RST38htbf: In every dialog, there is 1) status bar; 2) empty space; 3) dialog title bar15:49
Andy80tbf, yeah, you're right :)15:50
RST38htbf: And this is done on the already elongated and thus scarce for vertical space 800x480 screen?15:50
RST38htbf: Am I the only one seeing a problem here?15:50
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wazdthe funny thing is that necesarry empty space is a same waste of space like cancel button, but less obvious :)15:51
tbfRST38h: well, for complex UIs HildonStackableWindow was introduced. there you have much space15:51
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RST38htbf: Ok, so nobody will be using dialogs, people will use stackable windows instead...15:51
tbfwazd: i don't think omission of the cancel button was for saving space15:51
tbfwazd: this "close-by-tapping" outside just seems to be a nice idea to make device usage more snappy...15:52
tbfwazd: and it actually works15:52
RST38hExcept for the file dialog where you are stuck with that pompous triple title and 3 filenames underneath...15:52
tbfwazd: but once you have cancel-by-tap-outside as global concept the cancel button becomes redundant15:52
RST38htbf: Well, the "nice idea" has got some problems on its own, but I do not want to sound subjective pointing them out15:52
wazdtbf: cancel-by-tap-outside has a requirement of descent outside, that's a restriction15:53
Andy80tbf, and what about the "Ok" button? How can people know if the settings were saved anyway or not?15:53
tbfRST38h: yes, strange that the file dialog only shows 3.5 rows with files. seems someone messed up spacing.15:54
RST38htbf: Nothing strange there, it is apparently designed for "finger input"15:54
tbfRST38h: AFAIK the layout guide assumes 6 rows of information per dialog. so there should be five file names15:54
RST38htbf: And without any consideration of fitness to the purpose15:54
RST38htbf: So, if you have got 120 files in a directory, how long will you scroll through the list that only shows you 6 rows?15:55
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X-FadeRST38h: Isn't the dialog supporting select as you type?15:56
X-FadeRST38h: As in it refines the list based on your input?15:56
tbfRST38h: not very long, as dynamic scrolling considers touch speed and also has some overshoot effect15:56
Andy80I wanna hope the "Open File" dialog supports filter letting the user enter the text of the filename, just like in Gnome15:57
RST38hX-Fade: So, am I supposed to TYPE just to select a file?15:57
* RST38h is now getting suspicious of X-Fade15:57
X-FadeRST38h: No, you can just scroll. But if you know that it starts with 'RS' then you just type that?15:57
RST38hX-Fade: no.15:58
RST38hX-Fade: first of all, that would mean pulling the keyboard out15:58
RST38hX-Fade: secondly, it is not what I do on the desktop (Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever)15:58
tbfX-Fade: unfortunately that's not implemented :-/ --- well but libhildonfm is LGPL15:58
X-FadeRST38h: Well, then change your ways ;)15:58
RST38hX-Fade: Thirdly, who told you I remember the first letters of the filename when browsing for it?>15:58
X-Fadetbf: Where did I see it then? select box?15:59
RST38hX-Fade: Ah, the usual answer15:59
tbfX-Fade: so you could send patches. guess its author would happyly apply them.15:59
RST38hX-Fade: Realistically though, it will most likely end up with people not using Nokia-supplied apps15:59
X-FadeRST38h: I guess you don't use ^R on cli in bash?15:59
RST38hX-Fade: Not often, I use tcsh16:00
X-FadeRST38h: Or use the awesomebar in FF?16:00
RST38hX-Fade: Not using that one as well, it gives me 3-4 second delay now as I start typing16:00
X-FadeThis kind of autocompletion helps me a lot.16:00
RST38hX-Fade: CLI autocompletion has nothing to do with file dialogs16:00
X-FadeRST38h: It should just filter on what you type.16:01
X-FadeScrolling is inefficient anyway.16:01
RST38hX-Fade: When I browse through a list of files in a dialog, I HAVE NO IDEA what to type16:01
RST38hOtherwise, I would type :)16:01
X-FadeRST38h: When I open a file dialog, I usually know what I want to open.16:01
RST38hX-Fade: how many other people do?16:02
RST38hEspecially ones not using CLI on daily basis?16:02
X-FadeFile dialog != file browser ;)16:02
RST38hWell, in Maemo it is ==16:02
RST38hBut anyways16:02
X-FadeIf I want to open a doc, I know what doc I want.16:02
andre__X-Fade, at least filemanager itself does not support typing the filename it seems16:03
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X-FadeNot "Hmmm what shall I open today" ;)16:03
RST38hBy following your logic, one can always say that the file list is not needed at all, you just need a single string input16:03
X-Fadeandre__: Then I must be mistaking it for the select box with filter.16:03
RST38hOne way or another, what we see is that Fremantle file dialog is made unusable, in the sense most people assume about file dialogs16:04
andre__need an app with an "open file" dilaog to test...16:04
andre__RST38h, people also say this about the GTK+ open file dialog, and about the windows one. i'm fine with it :)16:05
RST38hRefer to Win32, Gtk+, Qt, Motif, and other file dialogs for reference16:05
andre__oh, i can provide you a long list of many people that say "Gtk file dialog sucks".16:05
RST38handre: Well, all these share common properties by allowing you to browse files16:05
andre__all depends on points of view16:05
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andre__yeah. same for fremantle.16:05
RST38handre: Yes, you probably CAN say that GTk+ dialog sucks, I even know what possible reasons may be16:05
andre__hehe16:06
RST38handre: Not the same for Fremantle16:06
RST38handre: Presenting the user with a keyhole showing 3 filenames is beyond "sucks", it is unusable for browsing files16:06
andre__but i see your point. i have an email account with >10000 messages in there. not easy to scroll to the last one.16:06
RST38hExactly16:06
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andre__that's why i asked the modest folks at gcds conference what they want to improve. answer was: better search features.16:07
andre__and sorting16:07
lardman|homebbl16:07
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RST38handre: this is only because they like their sparql/tracker/whatever project16:10
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RST38handre: it has nothing to do with what end users would like to be improved in modest16:10
andre__modest developer crew is very very unrelated to the tracker folks16:10
Andy80tbf, where can I find libhildon source code?16:10
andre__if you refer to nokia in general - maybe16:10
RST38hthe whole tracker thing is probably not going to be used that often16:10
X-FadeAndy80: https://git.maemo.org/projects/gitweb?p=hildon;a=summary16:11
RST38hanyways, back to the beach etc16:11
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Andy80X-Fade, thanks16:12
derfThe GTK+ file dialog is God-awful, and they seem to make it worse in every version.16:13
tbfAndy80: hildon-fm used to be at https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm/16:14
Andy80tbf, just checked what I did want to check ;)16:15
Jaffalizardo: ping16:15
lizardoJaffa: pong16:16
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Jaffalizardo: I'm playing with evolution-python (to set contacts' photos from Facebook). I've got the deb built and it's working (I can inspect contacts in the address book)16:17
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JaffaI've built up a Python string containing the EContactPhoto struct data and I want to do contact.props.photo = data16:17
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JaffaHowever `photo' is a GBoxed and won't let me assign a string to it. Any ideas? GBoxed in Python's bindings is abstract (Perl seems to have some convenience methods here to make this possible)16:17
lizardoJaffa: well, I never used evolution-python , but have you checked if it has any API docs ? so you could get example usage...16:19
lizardoJaffa: BTW is it already uploaded to freamantle extras-devel ?16:19
Jaffalizardo: Yes, it's in Fremantle extras-devel (well, it's gone through the builder)16:20
Jaffalizardo: The auto-generated docs for evolution-python are crap; so my question boils down to: if I have a property on a lightweight wrapper of a C library, where the property is exposed from a GProps as a GBoxed; can I set that without building a GBoxed subclass?16:20
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Jaffalizardo: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/python-evolution_0.0.4-maemo1/ FWIW16:21
JaffaAPI docs (such as they are): http://doc.conduit-project.org/evolution-python/16:22
JaffaBut this is more of a Python GObject question than an evolution-python one16:22
lizardoJaffa: that's a really good question :) I've only touched the python-hildon/python-mafw source code so far, and they don't use gboxed types AFAIK... it would be nice to take a look at the generated .c file on the evolution-python build, if you know some Python/C API, it will be easy to know what to pass to it...16:23
lizardoJaffa: my suggestion is to look at PyGtk: they have plenty of examples of various types (I think including GBoxed ones)16:23
Jaffalizardo: thanks16:24
lizardoJaffa: then look at code that uses these gboxed types16:24
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Jaffalizardo: http://www.daa.com.au/pipermail/pygtk/2006-March/011980.html looks handy16:27
Andy80Jaffa, welcome to the hell :D16:28
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JaffaAndy80: any ideas before I start hacking at the source of the Python module? A nice Pythoney way to create a GBoxed would be handy :)16:29
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Andy80Jaffa, I'm a real newbie in python bindings (lizardo can confirm) I've really no idea at the moment :(16:31
JaffaAndy80: no probs16:35
X-FadeAll of a sudden wondering if the mic of the N900 is in the top or bottom half of the device...16:36
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lcukX-Fade, mmmm   i heard it was on the bottom corner.   revenge of side-talkin' remixed for a skype generation :D16:40
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* lcuk hasnt even found the mic on the 810 yet16:41
lcuki shout  into it  when im on gtalk and wonder how anyone canhear me16:41
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lardmanre16:47
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javispedrothe mic is obviously just right to the speakerphone. half the dsp processing power is spend trying to filter the echo.16:47
lcukjavispedro, really?16:48
javispedrono ;P16:48
lcuki didnt know :) it does better than skype - we almost deafened one of the girls we had  on  remote link the other day through feedback :$16:48
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lcukthat was laptop and speakers tho16:49
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Jaffalizardo: Andy80: A simpler Python/C binding question. How do I register a struct so that it'll be properly mapped? pyg_register_???16:54
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lizardoJaffa: sorry, but you need to be more specific :)16:54
Andy80Jaffa, a structure that you define or an already defined one?16:55
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Andy80Jaffa, please give a look here and tell me if it can help you http://docs.python.org/extending/newtypes.html16:55
JaffaAndy80: An already defined structure (in libebook/e-contact.h) which I want to have its elements and properties available (rather than a GBoxed)16:55
JaffaAndy80: ta16:56
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JaffaIs there a tutorial on writing Python/C bindings for existing libraries? pyg_register_... doesn't turn up many useful Google results16:58
* hanno is wondering about the differences between Maemo, iPhone and Android. Anyone around who knows all of them (from a dev perspective)?16:59
JaffaAha: http://faq.pygtk.org/index.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp17:00
Jaffahanno: What do you want to know?17:00
pupnik_dev for what also17:00
hannoI understand the iPhone infrastructure: Hardware, SDK, iTunes app shop.17:01
hannoBut with Android, is there "a" shop or many shops?17:01
hannoAnd with Android, does one need to write apps for each hardware, or is one app running on all Android versions?17:01
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lcukhanno each of them has its own entire code language structure and development processes.  i doubt there is anyone around who is relaxed  enough and  knowledgable enough to be comfortable devving in all 3 yet17:01
lcuksomeone needs  to do a qt on it ;)17:02
* lcuk ponders liqbase for iphone and android17:02
hannoYeah, but which should I get? :-)17:02
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lcukget whichever you want to get17:03
lcukeach has strengths and weaknesses17:03
* hanno doesn't develop much, but likes scripting small apps every now and then.17:03
lcukthen does it matter17:03
Jaffahanno: There's is an "Android Marketplace". One app runs on all Android devices17:03
hannoThose Archos tablets look very tempting. Pretty close to what Maemo ITT promised to be (at least for me).17:03
pupnik_then a n810 with decent kbd is great for python / shell etc17:03
Jaffahanno: Archos has never been very open with its consumer electronics before.17:04
lcukbarring | and TAB17:04
pupnik_got to myp those true17:04
pupnik_map17:04
lcukhanno, if you are happy in the bowels of linux maemo may be better - its the closest to a desktop linux you can get17:05
lcukand some apps written in qt/gtk work everywhere17:05
hannoYeah. I owned the 770, the 800 and the 810. But all of them were flawed. I do wonder if Maemo is going anywhere.17:05
* hanno is not here to troll, honest.17:06
lcukits open source software - maemo can realistically only go as far as the developers behind it.17:06
lcukthen get stuck in and help17:06
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hannoeasier said than done, as usual.17:07
lcukdont mope around, focus on shortcomings and see if you can proactively make a change for the better17:07
lcukof course17:07
hannoThe interesting bits were closed.17:07
hannoand again, I'm more one of those script guys, not someone who likes ripping hardware drivers apart.17:07
lcukmmm which interesting bits17:07
lcukyou write simple scripts17:08
* lcuk vanishes17:09
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lardmanin a puff of smoke no doubt ;)17:09
GAN800As Maemo now seems to be Nokia's high-end OS, it definitely seems to be going somewhere.17:09
GAN800Talking about Andriod and iPhone OS if you want open is silly.17:10
hannoGAN800: All three have their closed parts.17:10
GAN800Anyway, Fremantle and the new OMAP3 devices are significantly more open than previous releases.17:10
hannodeviceS? Is there more than one?17:10
GAN800hanno, Android and iPhone OS having significantly more than Maemo.17:11
GAN800Apparently, although none are official yet.17:11
Macerugh!17:11
GAN800RX-51, RX-56 and RX-71 at least.17:11
Macerfucking server is acting unstable as hell and i can't figure out why17:11
Macermaybe dust in the cpu heatsinks.. it hasn't been dusted in a while17:11
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hannoRX-51 is the one we know about, right?17:12
GAN800Of the three, which provides a root shell without having to bypass manufacturer security measures?17:12
hannoIs there a "shop" infrastructure planned for Maemo?17:12
GAN800The one we have pictures for.17:12
hannoshop = "app shop"17:12
GAN800RX-56 is, apparently, an N920 due early next year according to Elzar.17:12
GAN800RX-71 has shown up in the kernel once or twice.17:13
Jaffahanno: Why do you want a shop? You want to charge or just have a central repository of apps?17:13
hannoJaffa: Both.17:13
hannoI don't want to charge. I'm talking from a user perspective.17:13
timelysSorting is mostly a waste of time. Searching is critical17:14
Jaffahanno: Right, then Maemo has a central app infrastructure, accessed either through http://maemo.org/downloads/ or the Application manager17:14
hannoiPhone's sucess is partially because of a good app shop. (Yes, I know, Apple monopoly, approval process, etc.)17:14
javispedrobah, g_strconcat crashing when trying to concatenate a file name and its extensions IF the file does not exist? x-files episode material.17:15
hannoJaffa: The app manager didn't always work for 770, 800 or 810. I used to have "can't install" on all three of them.17:15
hannoHope they worked that out this time.17:15
X-Fadehanno: Yeah 'they' have :D17:15
Andy80X-Fade, :D17:16
hannoWonderful.17:16
hannoSorry about the "they".17:16
GeneralAntilleshanno, that comes down to maintainers more than anything.17:17
GeneralAntillesBut you should check out the new QA infrastructure.17:17
JaffaAnd the QA process and extras-testing will help17:17
GeneralAntillesExtras-testing, etc.17:17
X-Fadehanno: That work is being done by the community. So they == us.17:17
timelysAndroid applications are a java subset17:17
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timelysCross java platform, but not entirely compatible with java's baseline17:18
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JaffaAnd certainly not in the GUI-layer17:18
timelysGeneral... I'll need help getting out me extras devel17:19
Jaffa(custom toolkit not based on AWT, SWT or Swing)17:19
Macerblah17:19
Maceri have to find out where this damn server is losing it17:19
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timelysHey, does anyone here have some time to answer some apt questions?17:26
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hannoI'm still somewhat doubtful about Maemo. iPhone has been a success, Android has enough hardware and momentum to stay, yet Maemo is still more or less experimental.17:27
timelysKeep your doubts at home17:27
GeneralAntilleshanno, well, if you want open, Maemo is where it's at.17:29
GeneralAntillesBy all appearances, Nokia seems to be banking on Maemo as their new top platform.17:29
hannoYes, certainly hope so.17:30
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ShadowJKOne funny aspect of being more open and unrestricted than android and apple is that they can't "force" developers to put their apps into any central repositories17:36
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GeneralAntillesSure, but we can certainly encourage and assist them in doing so.17:37
lardmanno, but it makes sense for the devs to do so17:37
GeneralAntillesSo far it's worked out pretty well.17:37
GeneralAntillesThe key is just making it easier than hosting your own.17:37
aol_ShadowJK: android does not force any central repositories17:37
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lardmaneasier + reach a wider audience, though I suppose that's also under the easier banner17:38
jeremiahI am convinced that a good QA process will help on that front too17:38
jeremiahLots of perl developers install apps from debian instead of CPAN because of debian's qa for example17:39
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jeremiahSo I can see a good QA process re-assuring users and pushing devs to move to a central repo17:39
ShadowJKI wouldn't dare install anything from CPAN unless I had a completely separate perl environment somewhere in /opt/perl17:39
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jeremiahShadowJK: Really? Why not.17:40
jeremiahCPAN has pretty good QA too17:40
jeremiahi.e. CPANTS17:40
ShadowJKIt's just begging for conflicts with the distro's versions and package management17:40
jeremiahShadowJK: Ah, I see.17:41
jeremiahYeah, I have been down that road. :)17:41
ShadowJKLike having lots of different repos17:41
jeremiahYeah, a nightmare.17:41
javispedrosame with python and every other scripting language now having their own package management system17:41
jeremiahjavispedro: Yeah, for real. Ruby has those problems too. :(17:42
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jeremiahI wish we could all just agree on _one_ format.17:42
javispedroas usual. scripting languages evolve until they can hose your system, every ipc program evolves until it can replace /sbin/init and every software grows a mail reader.17:42
lcukoi! canola-mail is great :p17:43
jeremiahheh17:43
ShadowJKYeah.. I remember when xchat gained terminal emulator feature. You could run irc in emacs in xchat17:44
jeremiahWhy would you want to do that when emacs already has its own chat client?17:44
jeremiahheh17:44
* lcuk is glad he broke his own cycle and fragmented liqbase. so i dont have to17:44
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javispedrowonder when javascript is going to be able to hose your system... oh, it already does.17:44
ShadowJKjavascript made me buy a quad core CPU17:47
javispedronot flash? ;)17:47
lcukthis is going to get me fed to the wolves.  but are there any visual studio devs around?   ive been asked to look at revision control, is VSS the default solution and will i want to hang myself after using git for a while beforehand17:47
lardman~curse jangly-fangly web pages that bring my dual core to a stand-still17:48
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, jangly-fangly web pages that bring my dual core to a stand-still !17:48
derflcuk: VSS is really, really awful.17:48
lardmanI blame flash + javascript and all those other nasty web 2.0 features17:48
lcukderf i know17:48
javispedrolcuk, I used VSS 6 for a while. Yes, you will want to hang yourself after the first commit.17:48
lcukgoogle tells me as much and my memory does too17:48
javispedroI dunno if it's gotten any better17:48
javispedroI remember reading ms rewrote it?17:49
lcukwithin top 5 articles i hear its source destruction17:49
lcuki think even MS gave up17:49
lcukand made something new17:49
lcukbut for bigger  teams17:49
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derfThere should be reasonable devstudio integratation for other version control systems.17:49
derfThough I don't know if there's something for git yet.17:49
javispedro$/ I just remember that ugly dialog and their useless locking always17:49
ShadowJKjavispedro, not flash. I usually have flash disabled, and even when I enable it, firefox bugs kill flash pretty soonish anyway.17:50
javispedro:D17:50
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ShadowJKfirefox also seems to have bugs with launching programs to open files I've downloaded. It does fork(), then both copies of firefox hang :-)17:50
Andy80hey guys... what do you think about a client for this http://ampache.org/index.php ?!17:50
Andy80"mampache" :)17:51
lcukyeah derf, that was my initial thoughts.  ill carry on lookin17:51
lcukta for clarifying17:51
lcukand ill do all i can to avoid :D17:51
aol_lcuk: I have long experience with VS tools and Windows development, and I would never ever touch VSS again17:52
aol_there are tools that can integrate to Visual Studio as well as Source Safe, but use proper version control system at back end17:53
lcukthanks AOL_, have you seen connie recently?17:53
aol_I don't know connie17:54
lcukhttp://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:wUnX_sxU3iAFwM:http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/05/20/aol_connie.gif17:54
lcuksure you do17:54
aol_har har17:55
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aol_anyway, I'd use tortoiseSVN17:57
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lcukaol_, it is  looking the closest linked to windows, but is there an internal to vs plugin system17:59
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* lcuk has tortoise on windows box17:59
lcukbut its nowhere inside vs17:59
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aol_hmm, I remember there being Visual SVN or something for thight integration18:03
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aol_I never preferred to have SVN on my IDE18:03
lcukwell ive got devs who need handholding18:05
lcukim surprised to say it, but im happy with git and command line18:05
aol_I guess helping them with version control won't be your worst problem :)18:06
nomisin my experience GUIs tend to get in your way when you want to do version control.18:06
aol_it's not the harderst thing in this profession :P18:06
* lcuk holds his tongue18:06
* nomis had the "pleasure" to work with Starteam. I believe this is the only RCS I've seen that offers a state "unknown" for files in the repository.18:07
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aol_nomis: took me a while to get accustomed with GUI SVN after using it commandline for years18:08
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rkirtiGiggle/gitk are nice though18:11
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JaffaTortoiseSVN is the only version control GUI I've liked.18:14
JaffaAnd I find it much nicer than dealing with any other VCS on the command line18:14
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lcukjaffa  - i like tortoise on windows, it adds  ickle icons onto my icons18:19
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lcukbut svn is geared towards having a custom server configured for it.  id have to investigate that18:20
lcukand i was always nervous about merging18:20
lcuk(after lardman got stomped on when everyone invaded his barcode party)18:21
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amit_usualjaffa : their is something called nautilussvn have you tried that?18:31
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Jaffaamit_usual: Nope, does it work well?18:35
andre__meh. two many bugs. sigh.18:35
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amit_usualJaffa: well fairly well , has some bugs though also i think its a bit slow but its better than most other GUI svns I have found18:37
amit_usualJaffa : http://code.google.com/p/nautilussvn/18:38
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javispedrogarage is slow18:42
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=31568718:42
javispedroah, sorry, totally unrelated.18:43
javispedro*garage18:43
Jaffaamit_usual: ta18:44
javispedrobah, back to normal, please disregard all of the above :P18:44
JaffaI *hate* GBoxed and PyGtk's handling of it. It wraps up an arbitrary chunk of data *so let me create one with an arbitrary chunk of data!*18:44
lardmanhmm, appears my Nat Geo Red & Blue glasses are the wrong colour to watch Chuck18:44
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lardmanwill have to buy some boxes of chocolates and work out the right colours18:46
till-think it was some yellow and blue stuff18:47
till-tried two different glases for the episode18:47
lardmanamber and blue apparently18:47
lardmanstrage though, it was the blue lens that let through both images, obviously the wrong shade18:48
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lardmanhttp://www.the3dmarket.com/ never realised there were so many "formats"18:48
till-the effect was not that good, most time the picture is not sharp and doubled18:49
lardmanhmm, ah well, I thought suddenly they'd improved it :)18:49
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till-i had to focus behind the picture ... got headache18:49
lardmanyeah, I've got a sore left eye from trying with those NatGeo ones and that was only 2min's worth18:50
lardman:)18:50
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till-maybe my glasses hadn't the right colors too18:53
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lardmanI guess colour balance on the TV/computer monitor could screw it up too18:53
till-watched it on a crt projector18:54
lardmansame thing though18:54
till-not that bright18:54
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lardmanmore the colours not being right and therefore not being completely blocked out18:54
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till-yeah, could be18:55
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GeneralAntillesUp in 3D knocked me out18:59
GeneralAntillesI slept for 4 hours after watching that one.18:59
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GeneralAntillesBe nice if we could get polarized 3D at home.18:59
lardmanyeah, needs a projector though doens't it18:59
lardmanor indeed a pair19:00
lardmanexpensive, but cool :)19:00
GeneralAntillesOr some sort of magical TV.19:00
GeneralAntillesQuite19:00
GeneralAntillesThe silver screen alone is $$$19:00
lardmanoh, it needs a special screen too?19:00
GeneralAntillesYeah, white-washed walls wont work.19:00
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_screen19:01
lcuksharp have a 3d tv that uses a diffraction grid and dual lcds19:01
Luke-Jrwhy polarized?19:01
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Luke-Jras opposed to what lcuk just mentioned ;)19:02
GeneralAntillesAre people with OpenOffice presentations with underlined misspellings serious?19:02
lcukif you sit in the right "zones" infront of it you get perfect 3d19:02
GeneralAntillesI mean, you can't turn off spellcheck for the presentation?19:02
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lardmanLuke-Jr: that is polarised I imagine19:02
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lardmanlcuk: you have a linky for that?19:03
GeneralAntillesNo19:03
GeneralAntillesIt just sends two different images to each eye.19:03
Luke-Jrlardman: pretty sure "polarised" is being used here to mean dual projectors on a silverscreen19:03
GeneralAntillesNo glasses filter.19:03
lardmanso how do the eyes see the different images?19:03
lcuk2just lookin it up now :)19:03
lardmanshutters on glasses?19:03
GeneralAntillesLuke-Jr, each projector is polarized differently so glasses can filter. . . .19:03
lcuk2was amazed when i heard/saw19:03
lcuk2apparantly they have laptops with it too now19:03
GeneralAntilleslardman, ever see one of those holograms they put on cheap kids toy packaging?19:04
lardmanyep19:04
GeneralAntillesThe ones where you move the packaging and the image moves.19:04
GeneralAntillesBasically that.19:04
lardmanor on credit cards19:04
GeneralAntillesEr19:04
GeneralAntillesNot holograms.19:04
lcuk2http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/device/about/lcd/3d/19:05
lardmanah yes, I know what you mean19:05
GeneralAntillesWhat do they call those things?19:05
lcuk2not english, but pretty picture at the bottom19:05
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lardmanarigato19:05
lcuk2sharp mobius laptops have it http://www.i4u.com/article1902.html19:05
lardmanhmm, I guess you have to set how far back you sit then19:06
lcuk2GeneralAntilles, the bumpy plastic 3 way moving dinosaurs you get in corn flakes boxes :D19:06
lcuk2i dont think its alterable19:06
andre__the next person filing a bug gets #5000. any volunteers? :-P19:06
lcuk2like i said, sitting in the zones19:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, right, those.19:06
* lardman ponders a bug about no 3D display on the N100019:07
lcuk2i call them things: cool19:07
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Macerhm19:07
Maceromfg my son is stuck on this fresh beat band crap19:07
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Macerthe redhead is kinda hot though19:08
lardmanparallax barrier, lenticular lens, something like that19:08
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lardmanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printing19:08
Macershayna rose19:09
Macershe just made the list of 5 haha19:10
Luke-Jrlardman: you need to set distance regardless of 3D method19:11
lardmanLuke-Jr: not with polarised or colour filters19:12
lardmanviewing distance this is19:12
Luke-Jreven with those if you want to use it properly ;)19:12
Luke-Jryou need to know the right distance to place the "camera" in the 3D world19:13
Luke-Jrto get the images19:13
lcuk2polarised 120hz systems with proper hardware synced powered glasses is practically perfect 3d19:13
* lcuk2 spits on everyone saying all the p's19:13
lardman:)19:13
lardmanluckily lardman has his coloured glasses on, so can only see the spit on the right side19:13
Luke-Jrlardman: every play ASQ?19:14
lardmannever heard of it19:14
Luke-Jrhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FKvBzoQeWg19:14
lardmanah, have heard of it, but no19:15
Macerhah19:15
Macer3d glasses quake huh?19:15
lardmanhmm, someone want to port that version to the Nxxx?19:15
lardmanwould be quite cool19:16
Luke-Jrlardman: requires OpenGL I think19:16
Macerdoes that actually work? :)19:16
GeneralAntilles120hz sucks.19:16
GeneralAntillesMakes everything look like video19:16
lardmanLuke-Jr: should be runnable without though19:16
Luke-Jrlardman: I doubt it?19:16
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Luke-Jrit uses two cameras to get two images..19:17
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MacerGeneralAntilles: yeah! haha19:17
Macerdoesn't it?19:17
lardmanit doesn't just alter the render point?19:17
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Macermakes everything look like a soap opera19:17
lardmanit will hook into the z-buffer info I imagine19:17
Luke-Jrlardman: you need two render points for 3D19:17
Macermy ex gf bought a 120Hz lcd.. and i kept looking at it because it was awkward19:18
lardmanI'll have a look at it later, looks like fun :)19:18
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lardmanLuke-Jr: thanks for the link19:18
Luke-Jrlardman: games-fps/anaglyph-stereo-quake in Gentoo ;)19:18
lardmanpah, Gentoo shmentoo19:18
GeneralAntillesMacer, looks awful.19:18
lardman:)19:18
MacerGeneralAntilles: i know :)19:19
GeneralAntillesMaking everything looks like video is a stupid feature.19:19
Macerit looks bad19:19
lardmanhttp://www.jfedor.org/red-blue-quake2/19:19
* Luke-Jr makes GeneralAntilles look like a video.19:19
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Luke-Jrlardman: but that's Quake2, ftl119:19
MacerGeneralAntilles: can you disable it? :)19:19
Macerhigh def stuff might look a little better19:19
GeneralAntillesMacer, on the Samsung I tried it on, yes.19:20
Macerlike. brays or 1080p mkvs might look pretty good19:20
lardmanLuke-Jr: oh, the other was Q1 was it?19:20
Macerbut normal movies look like soap operas19:20
Luke-Jrlardman: yes, Q1 is better ;P19:20
Maceri couldn' tstand it19:20
Macerheh19:20
lcuk2speaking of all this multi dimensions stuff - whos played/seen UT2d19:20
lardmanLuke-Jr: better: faster, 3D?19:21
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lcuk2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55yxnCFy8m419:21
Luke-Jrlardman: RuneQuake mod19:21
lcuk2play 2d version of unreal tourny (side scroller - 80s retro!)  but using the unreal engine19:22
lardmanwhat's RuneQuake?19:22
Luke-Jrlardman: connect quake.shmack.net19:22
lardmanyeah, it's just a board with no info on it19:23
Luke-Jrhuh?19:23
Luke-Jrwith the game19:24
lardmanwith what game?19:24
lardmanQuake?19:24
lardmanI don't have it19:24
lardmanor actually I probably do, but no clue where it is now19:24
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crashanddieHey guys, is there a docs application that supports synchronisation with Google Docs?19:46
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: ANSWER ME19:47
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khertan_n810Hello !19:51
crashanddiekhertan_n810: are you aware of any notes/document application that synchronizes with Google Docs19:51
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khertan_n810I m trying to do a datetime picker ... if someone have idea : http://khertan.net/2009/08/a-finger-useable-datetime-picker-on-maemo/19:52
khertan_n810hello crashandie !19:52
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khertan_n810mNotes can sync text in text format but it s a crappy implementation , and doesn t work very well19:53
crashanddiekhertan_n810: how about a list of all the dates of a month, for example, and when you push on something, and stay clicked, it makes the dates in that area bigger19:53
khertan_n810i didn t know other app that do it19:53
wazdcrashanddie: I hink this would help: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh19:54
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crashanddiewazd: what is it?19:54
khertan_n810crashanddie: because it s require an other click ...19:54
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crashanddiekhertan_n810: no it doesn't19:54
crashanddiekhertan_n810: ce que je veux dire, c'est que quand tu cliques, ca ragrandit les boutons dans la zone de ton doigt, une fois que tu laches, ca selectionne celui sur lequel tu avais le doigt... Mais le fait que ca agrandit la zone, te permet de faire une selection plus precise19:55
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khertan_n810yep ... it s an idea but quite difficult to implement in gtk19:56
wazdkhertan_n810: wow, this is everything but finger usable :D19:57
khertan_n810or at least require that i do a custom widget again :)19:57
khertan_n810wazd: and horrible19:57
khertan_n810crashanddie: the main problem with custom widget is that it s require a lot of cpu ressource19:58
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crashanddiekhertan_n810: not necessarily... How CPU-intensive is it to change the size of a button?19:59
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lcuk2khertan_n810, !!! great that you are trying ideas20:00
* lcuk2 loves experimentation :)20:00
lcuk2i think wazd is right though, thats one hell of a scary form lol20:00
khertan_n810lcuk2: i do experimentation since i ve start the developpment of maemo app20:01
lcuk2khertan_n810, custom widgets require lots of human brain resource20:01
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khertan_n810yep this is the other problem20:01
lcuk2yeah20:01
lcuk2but a custom widget today becomes a standard one tomorrow20:01
khertan_n810lcuk2 the custom day/week/view in mpim is a custom widget :)20:02
lcuk2yeah i know, ive seen you building it - and its lookin sweet20:02
khertan_n810crashanddie: the problem of resizing button will be to detect where click happen20:03
lcuk2crashanddie, gtk cpu layouts are fudging expensive20:03
khertan_n810before gtk manage the event20:03
crashanddielcuk2: then you use the idea20:04
khertan_n810:)20:04
lcuk2i already did :P20:04
lcuk2i had sketches resizing underneath in classic20:04
lcuk2and the whole grid was dynamic20:04
crashanddiekhertan_n810: I think you just got liq'd. You need to use a new set of tools, use liqbase20:05
lcuk2crashanddie, khertan and i have discussed extensively about this20:05
khertan_n810there is still not python binding20:05
khertan_n810:)20:05
lcuk2hes got his tools for now and creature comforts inside python20:05
crashanddiekhertan_n810: then how about you use a real language?20:05
lcuk2the time will come one day though :)20:06
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, WHAT?20:06
khertan_n810crashanddie: when it will be easier to do onboard dev with as in python20:06
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: nevermind20:07
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GeneralAntillesH'ok20:07
lcuk2khertan_n810, apt-get install build-essential20:07
lcuk2and then a few -dev libs20:07
* GeneralAntilles boots to XP.20:07
lcuk2thats all i use for on device20:07
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lcuk2i still use the tablet, but not for coding20:07
crashanddiekhertan_n810: t'es un bon codeur et t'as des idées géniales, en plus de ca t'as suffisamment de motivation et de temps libre pour faire une différence. Utilises un vrai language :P20:08
lcuk2err editing20:08
lcuk2crashanddie, we speek english hear20:08
khertan_n810crashnddie: python est un vrai language ... contrairement au c !20:08
khertan_n810c est du vrai objet !20:08
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* mgedmin galėtų pakalbėti lietuviškai, kad visiem būtų įdomiau20:09
khertan_n810mais merci pour le bon codeur ca fait plaisir20:09
lcuk2ahhh my babelfish is failing :D lol20:10
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lcuk2hiya mgedmin \o20:11
mgedminhi, lcuk220:11
mgedminwhere's lcuk1?  I didn't even know you had a twin20:11
khertan_n810and the most important things is that i m using python and pygtk to easily port mPIM to Windows and Linux :)20:11
mgedminwhich one of you is evil?20:11
lcuk2the one with the tash20:11
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khertan_n810the both  ...20:11
lcuk:O20:11
lcuki are not evil20:11
pupnik_khertan .. mPIM?20:11
crashanddiekhertan_n810: on s'en fout de l'objet. Ce qui compte c'est la vitesse d'exécution, pas nécessairement le reste. C'est ca que je trouve dommage, les gens veulent coder dans un truc qu'ils trouvent facile sans faire d'effort sur le résultat final (est-ce que c'est utilisable ou pas)20:12
lcukpupnik_, at a guess, its khertans pim package :)20:12
khertan_n810lcuk and lcuk2 are more like Pinkie and The Brain20:12
lcuk:O20:12
khertan_n810not  really twin _)20:12
Myrttipink?20:12
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lcuki am like popeye, mild mannered coder normally, then when i eat bacon i turn into supercoder20:13
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khertan_n810Myrtti it s a cartoon movie :)20:13
Myrttikhertan_n810: I know20:13
crashanddielcuk: and look like a pervert who's done prison, but had to default to adverts for cleaning products?20:13
MyrttiI prefer cow and chicken20:13
khertan_n810crashanddie, l interet de l objet n est pas dans la facilité mais généralement dans la qualité de la gestion des erreurs20:14
lcuklook crashanddie you were happy i solg you a sham-wow - how else would you have mopped up all the blood20:14
qwerty12_N810Using your tongue?20:14
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khertan_n810pupnik_ > mPIM > http://khertan.net/2009/08/a-quick-overview-of-the-current-developpment-of-mpim/20:15
khertan_n810it s a sort of mNotes, mTodos, and mCalendar, but better, without the error i made when i start mCalendar20:17
khertan_n810developpment20:17
khertan_n810rewrite from scratch20:17
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khertan_n810hum train is on departure ...20:19
khertan_n810i ll probably lost the connection20:19
khertan_n810ping ?20:20
lcuk"solar flares are increasing, gonna lose communications any moment now"20:20
lcukpong20:20
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khertan_n810lol20:21
khertan_n810i ve already lost my satellites antenna at home ... :)20:22
khertan_n810it s enought20:22
andre__how i can i find out from which repository i have installed a package? any nice apt-get / dpkg commands?20:22
lcukkhertan_n810, oh no20:22
lcukdid your girlfriend get you onto the roof to fix it20:22
lcuki know mine would if i had satellite20:22
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pupnik_just got khertan's page up20:23
khertan_n810lcuk i prefer not to climb on the roof ...20:23
pupnik_4 minutes to open a url from xterm20:23
lcukyes, but if girlfriends TELL you to do something, saying no is rarely an option20:23
khertan_n810i ve ask to a company ...20:24
lcukheh20:24
andre__ah, found it20:24
lcukhiya andre__ who got #500020:24
lcukand do they specially get it fixed cos its a cool get20:24
khertan_n810yep i know ... but last time i was on the roof i meet suddently the flor20:24
khertan_n810floor20:24
khertan_n810in less than 1 seconds20:24
lcuk:O wikes20:24
lcukyikes even20:24
andre__lcuk, Mikko Vartiainen20:24
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lcukwas it a vital one20:25
lcukor just something silly20:25
pupnik_if girlfriends ASK you to so something, it is usually to set you up to be the bad guy in their next argument with you20:25
lcuklike most important gets are20:25
khertan_n810so ... i prefer paid for that someone else climb on my roof20:25
pupnik_yes khertan20:25
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lcuki prefer to pay someone too20:25
khertan_n810but yes you are true about girlfriends20:25
lcuktheir neck, not mine20:25
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khertan_n810i girlfriend without tv is a bit like us without a nit :)20:26
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lcuki can cope without nits20:26
lcuki would just code in vb and target the new nokia x86 windows machine instead20:27
lcuki like the idea of a 3g built in thing.  tho think side talking will be a bit extreme with a 10" laptop20:27
pupnik_mm20:28
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lcukballs!20:29
pupnik_lcuk, isnt there harm in using a 30 year-old cpu architecture ?20:30
lcukwhy though?20:31
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lcukrealisticially, theres a codebase20:31
lcukand compatability20:31
naterhkouch20:31
pupnik_mhm20:31
pupnik_how bout wasted electricity20:31
lcukand running an app that was writting in 1981 is fudging cool20:32
lcukmeh, most folks with laptops know the score20:32
naterhki hope n900  will not rely on a every time available connection20:32
lcuki know we have handhelds, but really20:32
lcuknaterhk, i hope no app ever relies on an every time available connection20:32
lcukbut i welcome the prospect of having 24/7 always on connectivity wherever i am20:33
naterhkouch .. why does when the cpu is over used text input are in always in invert order20:33
lcuki dont have access to wifi most of the places i go20:33
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Khertanyep me to ... specially in train20:33
lcukmmm20:33
lcukgtk not movign the cursor until after keys input20:34
lcukhiya :) i just commented on your blog20:34
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Khertanhum ... it could be the reason20:34
Khertanoh my first comment :)20:34
lcukhopefully not your last20:34
lcuktheres a neat looking date picked in the fremantle toolkit20:35
Khertanonly time know ...20:35
lcukits gtk and standard20:35
lcukyeah20:35
lcukdo you have desktop machine connected most of the time20:35
lcukand iwth internet access20:35
Khertanand the death ...20:35
lcukheh20:35
Khertan(reference to the disc world)20:35
lcukim just thinking, i got to see fremantle beta on my 810 :)20:36
Khertanmost of the time20:36
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Khertanbut most of the time i didn t use it20:36
lcukqwerty very kindly shared a vnc session from his computer in london to my tablet in macnhester20:36
Khertanfremantle beta on your nit ?20:36
Khertanlol20:37
lcukso i was clicking on the buttons and menus and things on my nit :)20:37
lcukit was qole who came up with the inspired idea20:37
Khertanlol20:37
lcukperhaps you could try it yourself :)20:37
Khertanabout that it was the first goal of mer ?20:38
lcuk!!! what if nokia or someone with lots of VM space offered people a playtest like that?20:38
lcukas a serious thing20:38
lcukto save folks running scratchbox etc20:38
Khertanto backport fremantle on n810/n80020:38
lcukto let them experience it20:38
lcukthats a longer term20:38
Khertanlol it s an idea20:38
lcukthis could be done today20:38
lcuknow20:38
lcuk:) just a quick thing "playtest fremantle"20:39
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wazdKhertan: http://i008.radikal.ru/0908/34/e14677478901.png20:39
crashanddielcuk: how would you provide screen?20:39
Khertanwith vnc ... not really useable with a mobile phone connection20:39
lcukuse a small install in extras which adds vncclient20:39
lcukKhertan, but to get people over initial things20:39
crashanddielcuk: vnc is dog slow, especially if connecting to an underpowered VM20:39
lcukit would be worth it for the buzz it would create20:39
lcuki used it from qwertys machine20:39
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lcukvnc isnt heavy20:40
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lcuk:) tis just a suggestion20:40
lcukbrb tea20:40
Khertanwazd : is it something actually in fremantle ? is that a datetime selector ?20:41
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wazdKhertan: nop, just a suggestion :)20:41
Khertanah ... but yes it s a idea ...20:42
wazdKhertan: Fremanle has "not so cool" slides with numbers :)20:42
wazdKhertan: simple kinetic lists20:42
wazdKhertan: in other words - boring :)20:42
Khertandon t know if it useable with finger on nit screen (lack of precision)20:43
Khertanbut i should try to implement it just to see20:43
andre__mikkov_, around?20:43
wazdKhertan: well, move hours, move minutes, move seconds arrow to fine tune minutes20:43
Khertani didnt like kinetic at leat for time / date selection20:43
Khertanat leat i think kinectic should just be use for scrolling a page20:44
wazdKhertan: I've drawn hours arrow slightly wrong, it should be a little more towards 120:44
Khertanmove will be difficult i think ... but maybe with a 5 minutes step20:44
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andre__mikkov_, what exactly is the binary name of wormux? seems to not be in the path...20:45
wazdKhertan: yep, hour arrow has hour gradation, minute - 5 minutes gradation and second just makes full circle20:45
Khertanbut how to know which hings to move when time is 12:00 ... the minute or hour ? :)20:46
qwerty12_N810andre__: checked in /usr/games?20:46
wazdKhertan: well, move hour first :)20:46
Khertanyep20:46
Khertani m just thinking of all case20:47
Khertanbut yep ... it s an interesting idea20:47
andre__qwerty12_N810, argh... good catch. why is this not in path? sigh20:47
wazdKhertan: yep, that's an obvious problem :)20:47
qwerty12_N810andre__: file a bug :D20:47
qwerty12_N810(against Maemo :p)20:47
andre__qwerty12_N810, no, that means that i become self-employed :-P20:48
qwerty12_N810hehe20:48
Khertanthe difficulty is to something finger friendly20:48
Khertanas when you see palm agenda ... they do it nice with only 160x160 pixel of resolution20:48
wazdKhertan: resolution dosn't matter20:48
pupnik_sometimes less degrees of freedom helps the creative process20:49
wazdKhertan: screen size does20:49
Khertanwazd : true20:49
andre__Nokia will provide finger friendly date and time widgets in Fremantle. if you have some patience you'll see... :)20:49
Khertanand more the precision of myh finger and  stylus20:49
wazdKhertan: resolution allows you to make same things smoother :)20:49
qwerty12_N810andre__: that's a lame answer. We don't have patience so give us screenshots *now* :p20:50
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wazdandre__: I think they've already shown them20:50
Khertanandre__: yep maybe ... but i m also thinking of user that can t buy a n90020:50
andre__hmm, fair point20:51
wazdandre__: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/figures/date-button.png ?20:51
Stskeepsandre__: as finger friendly as their doors? :P20:51
Khertanand if i couldn t get a sponosered price for the n900 ...20:51
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Khertani wil: wait for nothing :)20:51
andre__wazd, oh, that one is nice too :)20:51
wazdStskeeps: snap! :D20:51
wazdandre__: eew :D20:51
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wazdandre__: it's b.o.r.i.n.g )20:51
andre__that's l.i.f.e20:52
wazdandre__: user should love just to move clock arrows without any purpose, just because it's cool :)20:52
Khertanand it s just date not  date and time20:52
wazdKhertan: well, time acts the same20:52
Khertanyep but look like it s require two screen20:53
wazdKhertan: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/figures/time-button.png20:53
Khertanso ... if i count well ... one click to show the selector 3 to make the selection, an other one to validate and 1+3+1 for the time20:54
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Khertanfar away from the 'if you can't do thing in less than 3 click you should refine the ui'20:55
wazdKhertan: well, if you can't pick the date and time with 3 clicks - you should definitely :)20:56
Khertanlol20:56
andre__wazd, that's why i got four clocks in this room. i can move them all the time, when not sleeping or working. true that!20:57
Khertanof course it doesn t apply strictly here20:57
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johnsqHi21:05
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slonopotamusjohnsq, hello21:06
johnsqslonopotamus: fixed my xserver problem, was my fault. the evdev patch for FN key is two lines.21:07
slonopotamusjohnsq, care to share?21:07
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slonopotamusjohnsq, Macer abandoned gentoo because of Fn problem :)21:08
johnsqslonopotamus: i make a patch and post the link.21:08
slonopotamusjohnsq, just pastebin, i'll add it to overlay21:09
johnsqslonopotamus: pastebin is more work than scp21:12
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johnsqslonopotamus: goron.de:~/johns/n810/fn_patch.diff21:12
johnsqslonopotamus: http://goron.de:~johns/n810/fn_patch.diff21:13
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johnsqmmm urls are a problem :)21:13
slonopotamushttp://goron.de/~johns/n810/fn_patch.diff21:13
slonopotamus:)21:13
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johnsqslonopotamus: xmodmap from mer than FN works.21:14
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slonopotamusxmodmap... how you use it?21:14
johnsqslonopotamus: /etc/X11/Xmodmap should be automatic loaded, but haven't tested it. I used ~/.Xmodmap to map the keyboard. FN is an extra modifier.21:16
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vasily_pupkinanybody familar with cmake?21:17
johnsqslonopotamus: I looked into evdev, but adding right button emulation seems to be too much work for me.21:19
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slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, a bit21:22
RST38hEHLO all again21:22
slonopotamusjohnsq, err... you said you have right click with evtouch21:22
vasily_pupkini have some problem while running cmake21:24
vasily_pupkinlink.txt not created21:24
johnsqslonopotamus: yes, it works, but it would be better when the orignal x drivers would support it.21:24
vasily_pupkinat all21:24
slonopotamuslink.txt?21:24
vasily_pupkinthere are rules for linking21:24
slonopotamusjohnsq, xf86-input-tslib also has right-click21:25
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slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, i dunno what's link.txt :/21:28
vasily_pupkinCMakeFiles/%modulename%.dir/link.txt21:29
slonopotamusthat's too internal :) show your CMakeLists.txt?21:30
vasily_pupkinthat's not mine21:30
vasily_pupkinopensync :]21:31
vasily_pupkinit's tooooooo big21:31
vasily_pupkinfor libsyncml i form link.txt by hands21:32
vasily_pupkinbut generally this is bad idea21:32
slonopotamusshow what's relevant to your %modulename%21:32
vasily_pupkinavatar@AliSo opensync % avatar@AliSo trunk % cat CMakeLists.txt | grep -i libsyncml21:33
vasily_pupkinPROJECT( libsyncml C )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MAJOR "0" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MINOR "5" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION_PATCH "4" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MAJOR}.${LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MINOR}.${LIBSYNCML_VERSION_PATCH}" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_CURRENT 3 )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_REVISION 0 )21:33
slonopotamusyikes21:33
Andy80ehm.....21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_AGE 0 )21:33
vasily_pupkinMATH( EXPR LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_SOVERSION "${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_CURRENT} - ${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_AGE}" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_SOVERSION}.${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_AGE}.${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_REVISION}" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_LIBRARIES_DIR "${LIB_INSTALL_DIR}" CACHE PATH "Syncml library location" )21:33
Andy80can't you use http://pastebin.com please?21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_INCLUDE_DIR "${INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR}/libsyncml-1.0" CACHE PATH "Syncml headers location" )21:33
Andy80vasily_pupkin: ?21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_BIN_DIR "${BIN_INSTALL_DIR}" CACHE PATH "Syncml binaries location" )21:33
slonopotamusandre__, too late21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_DATA_DIR "${CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX}/share" CACHE PATH "Syncml data location" )21:33
Andy80-.-21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_EXEC_INSTALL_DIR "${BIN_INSTALL_DIR}" CACHE PATH "Syncml binary location" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( PACKAGE "libsyncml" )21:33
slonopotamusAndy80, too late21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( PACKAGE_NAME "libsyncml" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( PACKAGE_STRING "${PACKAGE_NAME} ${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( PACKAGE_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( PACKAGE_SONAME "${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_VERSION}" )21:33
vasily_pupkinSET( VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" )21:34
qwerty12_N810~pastebin21:34
qwerty12_N810~pastebin21:34
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste21:34
vasily_pupkinCONFIGURE_FILE( "libsyncml-1.0.pc.cmake.in" "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml-1.0.pc" @ONLY)21:34
qwerty12_N810~pastebin21:34
qwerty12_N810~pastebin21:34
vasily_pupkinADD_SUBDIRECTORY( libsyncml )21:34
qwerty12_N810~pastebin21:34
vasily_pupkinCONFIGURE_FILE( "libsyncml/Doxyfile.in" "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml/Doxyfile" @ONLY)21:34
vasily_pupkinADD_CUSTOM_TARGET( DoxygenDocLibrary ${DOXYGEN_EXECUTABLE} ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml/Doxyfile )21:34
vasily_pupkinINSTALL( FILES "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml-1.0.pc" DESTINATION "${LIBDATA_INSTALL_DIR}/pkgconfig/" )21:34
vasily_pupkinSET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}-RC${RELEASE_CANDIDATE}" )21:34
vasily_pupkinSET( CPACK_SOURCE_PACKAGE_FILE_NAME "${PROJECT_NAME}-${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" )21:34
vasily_pupkinavatar@AliSo trunk %21:34
vasily_pupkin21:34
vasily_pupkinholy shit21:34
vasily_pupkinfscked erc21:34
vasily_pupkinyeah, i'm really sory21:34
vasily_pupkin:]21:34
vasily_pupkin^_^21:34
vasily_pupkinhttp://pastebin.com/m6d72a259  <<-- too late, but.. :)21:34
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, and from libsyncml subdir?21:35
RST38hwhat was it?21:36
vasily_pupkinhttp://pastebin.com/m15acd964  <<-21:36
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slonopotamusRST38h, accident :)21:37
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RST38humgh21:37
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, line 71 from second file is supposed to take care of linking21:38
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, how it dies?21:39
vasily_pupkinem?21:39
vasily_pupkincmake passes ok21:39
vasily_pupkinbut when you do make21:39
vasily_pupkinin build dir, it says, that he couldn't get any rule for that fscked link.txt21:40
MaceN8x0hm21:42
MaceN8x0man i hope i get my touchbook soon21:42
MaceN8x0im all amped up to get it21:42
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slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, scratchbox?21:44
vasily_pupkinyep21:44
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vasily_pupkini build this stuff for regular maemo distribution21:44
slonopotamushttp://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=47903 no suolution, but close21:45
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slonopotamuss/suo/so/21:45
infobotslonopotamus meant: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=47903 no solution, but close21:45
slonopotamusand http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=50370521:45
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vasily_pupkinhm21:46
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, any simlinks in path to source/build dir?21:46
vasily_pupkini try to build cmake from source21:46
vasily_pupkinandddd21:46
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vasily_pupkinmake[3]: *** No rule to make target `Source/CursesDialog/form/CMakeFiles/cmForm.dir/link.txt', needed by `Source/CursesDialog/form/libcmForm.a'.  Stop.21:46
vasily_pupkin21:46
vasily_pupkinwow21:46
vasily_pupkinno symlinks21:47
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slonopotamuscmake version? how many nokia patches on top of it? :D21:48
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, http://www.cmake.org/pipermail/cmake/2009-February/027065.html about cmake error21:49
slonopotamuserr. no reply21:49
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vasily_pupkinhm21:49
vasily_pupkina have cmake 2.6.2 :)21:49
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, could you move source/build dirs to smth in / ?21:50
vasily_pupkin[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/opensync/libopensync/build] > pwd21:50
vasily_pupkin/targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/opensync/libopensync/build21:50
vasily_pupkin21:50
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crashanddievasily_pupkin: the path in [] kinda gave it away, no?21:51
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slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL  is not a symlink?21:51
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vasily_pupkinhm21:52
slonopotamusjust wild guessing :)21:53
vasily_pupkinno21:53
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slonopotamusи  вообще, это идиотизм между собой по-английски разговаривать.21:53
vasily_pupkinда, тоже верно21:53
vasily_pupkin:)21:53
slonopotamus:)21:54
vasily_pupkinфигня какая то с этим cmake21:54
vasily_pupkinя и новый собрать не могу - те же бока21:54
vasily_pupkinпричем libwbxml собрался нормально. и кусок libsyncml21:54
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slonopotamusis there kde4 for maemo?21:56
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3879 he must know the magic trick that'll fix your problem21:57
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lcukkde4 was built for maemo4 ages ago i believe21:58
* lcuk saw it at the last summit21:58
slonopotamusMarijn Kruisselbrink, please, put up your hand21:58
slonopotamuslcuk, doesn't matter, it was cmake-based21:58
Mekslonopotamus: that would be me21:58
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, ^21:58
vasily_pupkinkhm21:59
vasily_pupkinMek is the guru of cmake? :)21:59
slonopotamusMek, vasily_pupkin has problems with cmake and we suspect you fixed them when built kde for maemo21:59
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Mekand I think the last time I tried building kde stuff for diablo it turned out that bu using the qemu from the fremantle sdk cmake worked just fine in the diablo sdk...22:00
Mek(but strangely enough with that same qemu cmake in the fremantle sdk still has problems)22:00
slonopotamusMek, problems like this: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4790322:00
slonopotamusMek, err... 'using the qemu from the fremantle sdk cmake'? qemu or cmake?22:01
Mekyeah, problems like that go away by using a different qemu version...22:01
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vasily_pupkinпь22:01
vasily_pupkinmoment :)22:01
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Mekbut some other problems might occur with a different qemu version as well :)22:01
slonopotamusshouldn't22:01
johnsqthat why i use native development22:01
vasily_pupkinyeh, i use strange qemu to prebuild parts of emacs and MicroB22:02
Proteous_I developed my case of lice from a native22:02
slonopotamusjohnsq, qemu trunk is not bad at all too :)22:02
locutusemacs isnt very usable on maemo :(22:02
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johnsqlocutus: eight megabytes constant swapping :)22:02
slonopotamuslocutus, you wanted to say 'maemo isn't very usable in emacs'22:02
locutusjohnsq: its mostly that the keyboard isnt very suited to its use22:03
suihkulokkiONLY eight?? how compact!22:03
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locutusmy XEmacs currently uses 141MB of memory (:22:03
* locutus whistles22:03
locutusoh, 17722:03
vasily_pupkinlocutus: yeah. but only by default ;)22:04
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vasily_pupkini improve config a bit.. and now it's realy cool22:04
johnsqlocutus: use a bluetooth keyboard22:04
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, try what Mek said :)22:04
vasily_pupkini'm changing qemu at this moment22:04
vasily_pupkinto different version :)22:05
locutusjohnsq: i dont want to carry *another* piece of equipment22:05
* slonopotamus tried to compile sb qemu once but it wanted libsb :/22:05
vasily_pupkinlocutus: not needed22:05
slonopotamusMek, thanks for hint :)22:06
johnsqlocutus: when you want to write much text, there is still no solution.22:07
* mgedmin now has a pdf2html.py that produces HTML files with proper paragraphs, usable in FBReader22:07
slonopotamusdon't write 'much' :) more thinking, less coding22:07
slonopotamusmgedmin, why not just use evince?22:08
RST38hmgedmin: does it try converting styles? (italic,bold,etc)22:08
johnsqyes xournal and design works good.22:08
vasily_pupkinMek: !! it's worked :)22:08
mgedminslonopotamus: last time I tried evince, it ran out of RAM on page 622:08
mgedminRST38h: yes22:08
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, alive! she's alive :D22:08
locutusjohnsq: i also like to run xemacs for a lot of stuff like reading mail, usenet, notes, agenda, running elisp code in batch mode, etc.22:09
mgedminmost of the heavy lifting is done by pdftohtml from sourceforge; I just added some heuristics to merge lines of text into paragraphs correctly22:09
RST38hmgedmin: coool!22:09
vasily_pupkinlocutus: what's your problems with emacs on tablet?22:09
johnsqvasily_pupkin: ctrl+meta+esc+a22:09
locutusessentially, yes :)22:10
vasily_pupkinbheh :)22:10
RST38hmgedmin: bw, won't converting to .fb2 be better?22:10
RST38hs/bw/btw22:10
mgedminRST38h: maybe, but then I'd have to learn .fb222:10
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, say thx to google, that guy on kde forum who linked to Mek and Mek himself for being online :)22:10
mgedminHTML is more universal anyway22:10
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RST38hheh22:10
vasily_pupkinlocutus: I rebind m-x to ESC-+, TAB to menu, and rebind big combinations22:10
vasily_pupkingoogle: :-*22:11
slonopotamusi guess diablo sdk just uses old, patched and broken  qemu22:11
vasily_pupkini have several qemu's22:12
vasily_pupkinone from trunk, one pathed, and all from SDK22:12
* slonopotamus only has 0.10.5 (latest release) and trunk. trunk works better22:13
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vasily_pupkinthis shit works with old 0.8.2, not with trunk :]22:14
slonopotamusand what happens if you run sb with trunk one?22:15
vasily_pupkincrazy stuff with link.txt :)22:15
slonopotamusoh22:15
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, w/e. happy building! :)22:16
vasily_pupkinyeah22:16
vasily_pupkinsyncml from trunk work good with my nokia 761022:16
vasily_pupkini want to build opensync to sync calendar with GPE22:17
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MaceN8x0blah22:17
MaceN8x0trying to change my bg with fluxbox in mer22:17
MaceN8x0hoping eterm comes with esetroot22:18
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johnsqMaceN8x0: 4mb memory only for background lost22:19
MaceN8x0haha22:20
MaceN8x0that much??22:20
eichii reinstalled mer with mer installer, like i did it 5 times before without problems..now the bootmenu does not start after power...there is only a nokia logo pictures with nothing else happens22:20
MaceN8x0wait til i start using tansparent eterm too ;)22:21
eichiafter maybe 30 sec logo showing, the device power off22:21
johnsqMaceN8x0: 800x480x2 i think maemo is 16bit otherwise x422:21
MaceN8x0well mer ~ maemo22:22
MaceN8x0im in fluxbox22:22
MaceN8x0got the background going22:22
MaceN8x0wish i had a battery applet for fluxbox22:22
johnsqMaceN8x0: you can set the font bigger in the theme, than the menus are usable22:22
slonopotamusMaceN8x0, latest stable cups builds22:22
MaceN8x0and bt applet22:22
MaceN8x0slonopotamus: i gave up on gentoo22:23
slonopotamusMaceN8x0, k :)22:23
MaceN8x0mer + flux = better22:23
MaceN8x0less hassle22:23
johnsqMaceN8x0: = same22:23
MaceN8x0slonopotamus: and the kb lights up in mer haha22:24
MaceN8x0most of the time22:24
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MaceN8x0Eterm:  Error:  Unable to load font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-*-*-*-c-*-iso10646-1".  Falling back on "k14"22:25
MaceN8x0Eterm:  FATAL:  Couldn't load the fallback font either.  Giving up.22:25
MaceN8x0doh22:25
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Veggenanyone want a possibly defect, possibly only with broken battery, n770?22:36
Veggenbeen lying in drawer for years, worked before it went there, I think.22:37
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MaceN8x0what app22:43
MaceN8x0tells x to rescan its fontpaths?22:43
MaceN8x0root@restless:/mnt/ext# xset fp rehash22:45
MaceN8x0hm22:45
MaceN8x0i dont know why i cant load these fonts22:45
amrVeggen deffo \o22:47
amrwhat do you want for it?22:47
lcukpostage @ $100 per mile22:47
amrlol22:48
johnsqMaceN8x0: truetype fonts?22:50
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* lcuk smiles22:55
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GadgetoidUgh, N810 remote desktop is stunning23:04
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GadgetoidI can run Windows in a virtual machine on my Mac, rdesktop into it, and have a whole sneaky little powerful computing environment23:05
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dieb_I get "Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' with 'fakeroot apt-get update' on fremantlesdk+sbox. I only added two lines on sources.list for extras23:10
dieb_any tips?23:10
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crashanddiedieb_: what do you think the keyring is?23:11
dieb_crashanddie: somewhere you put your keys in23:11
crashanddiedieb_: and what does the error message say?23:11
dieb_there's no such keyring23:12
johnsqdieb_: you can disable the auth checking, iirc23:12
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GadgetoidI find the lack of bluetooth mouse drives disturbing23:15
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fiferboyHmm, I'm running into an "mmap: Permission denied" error in scratchbox - even after "echo 4096 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr"23:19
fiferboyThis is in DIABLO_ARMEL, but comes in the heels of updating scratchbox and installing the FREMANTLE_* rootstraps23:21
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lardmananyone know, off hand, if opengl-es supports glColorMask?23:25
* crashanddie replaces the ssl cert on a IIS box, woohoo23:25
lardmanhmm, apparently so. Good23:26
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fiferboyHmm, the same code works in DIABLO_X86 - I don't think this is a good sign23:29
GAN800I can't believe I'm going to set aside computer money for a tablet.23:29
jeremiahMe neither, but the new tablet looks awesome :]23:29
lardmanhave I missed something?23:30
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power23:30
GAN800jeremiah, they better hand out some discount codes.23:30
RichiHinfobot: botsnack23:31
infobotRichiH: :)23:31
jeremiahlardman: Noting bacon related. :)23:31
jeremiahGAN800: I here that!23:31
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jeremiahI totally agree23:31
GAN800It'll be a sad day when they abandon the community that thoroughly.23:31
jeremiahindeed23:31
GAN800"Oh, thanks for the hundreds and thousands of hours you've put into this platform over the last 3 years, now here's a phone you can't afford."23:32
fiferboyHas anyone recently install fremantle rootstraps and updated scratchbox to maemo5 and broken DIABLO_ARMEL?23:32
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pupnik_gan800 you can take maemo (mer) with you...23:33
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crashanddieGAN800: you broke it again23:35
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fiferboyI take it no one has...23:35
crashanddieGAN800: I told you, stop hitting that cable with your foot23:35
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GAN800crashanddie, but it's so warm and my foot is so cold.23:38
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GadgetoidI took one look at the N900 and bought an N81023:45
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RichiHpupnik_: while true, maemo kinda needs a platform to run on23:48
RichiHwhile a pandora or similar would be an option..23:49
pupnik_smartq maybe23:49
GadgetoidHa ha Pandora :D23:49
GadgetoidI'm still waiting for mine *cries*23:49
RichiHsame here23:49
pupnik_but nobody has matched the n810 yet23:49
GadgetoidThe N810 is a lovely, lovely machine23:49
pupnik_same here :)23:50
GadgetoidAnd so shiny, too23:50
GadgetoidAlthough it keeps taking my remote desktop session out of full screen when it falls asleep, gah!23:50
RichiHthat reminds.. i need to download the maps for .au23:50
Gadgetoidalt+enter doesn't work in rdesktop23:50
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GadgetoidI have to REACH, REACH! for the maximize button!23:50
JaffaYay, first pass works. Contacts have photos from Facebook with some basic auto-detection :-)23:51
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pupnik_congrats23:51
qwerty12_N810Congrats Jaffa :)23:51
smackpotathas anyone tried to modify the gps antenna like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypljg3MLAf823:51
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GadgetoidNow someone get bluetooth mice to work in rdesktop ;)23:51
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: I'm very chuffed. Now to make a fancy Fremantle UI23:51
JaffaWell, not *now* as such.23:51
qwerty12_N810Hehe23:52
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: I had to resort to the libebook C API to actually set a photo against a contact23:52
smackpotatis the gps visible when you take the back cover off23:55
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* qwerty12_N810 curses the cunts, Thomson, for producing such shit routers23:55
Gadgetoid_N810Yay, xchat fun!23:55
crashanddieany entrust expert by any chance?23:56
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