IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-04-28

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pupnik_what is that00:00
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GeneralAntillespupnik_, itT is moving to talk.maemo.org00:00
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pupnik_achso00:01
coeus82GeneralAntilles: when is that happening? I saw the post for that but it was several months old00:03
GeneralAntillescoeus82, this week.00:03
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xnthttp://xceleo.com/kvm.png :)00:07
* xnt wonders if maemo will work in kvm00:07
xntor mer00:07
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johnxxnt, that's a neat frontend. what is it?00:08
GeneralAntillesHey, timely.00:09
johnxand we do have a vmware image for mer, so give it a shot :)00:09
xntjohnx: its virt-manager from the ubuntu repos00:09
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xntok00:09
* xnt notices 0.13 release00:10
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xntdo you guys have a iso for mer?00:11
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xntrootfs to iso?00:12
xntputting the rootfs to an iso00:12
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* xnt notices that kvm supports vmdk natively00:14
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xntvmdk almost done downloading00:15
* xnt is glad that he has fios00:15
Macerwtf00:16
Maceri installed gnome in debian00:16
Macerand now the network settings won't stick and i can't figure it out00:16
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xnt*****0.12 release :P00:18
pupnik_good idea to move itt to maemo.org00:18
pupnik_better interlinking00:18
xntbtw ***** means 5 messages before00:19
GeneralAntillespupnik_, screenshots: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2859400:19
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xntGA: Nice but I would like a dark theme, easier on the eyes00:20
GeneralAntillesxnt, AFB's going to convert Minimalistic.00:20
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xntok :)00:20
xntvm is being created :)00:21
Corsacok, I hate MM crashing because of bad gconf settings00:21
xntwhat kernel is mer?00:23
xnt2.6 or 2.400:23
Corsac2.6.2100:23
xntCorsac : thanks00:24
* xnt hates virt--manager's requirement of a install iso00:25
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xntjohnx: http://xceleo.com/kvm-mer.png :) I got it working00:33
johnxawesome news. would you mind if I added that screenshot to the wiki?00:34
xntnope i wouldn't mind )00:34
xnt:)00:34
johnxalso, you might be interested in joining #mer :)00:34
xntand I can add in the directions later00:34
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xntoops I forgot :P I just reinstalled ubuntu on my xps so I need to reconfigure xchat00:35
ScriptRipperlbt: did you check how far the arm build came : https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel00:37
lbtyeah - I'm looking at pulseaudio00:37
lbtand upstart00:37
lbtso I can promote them00:38
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z4chhanyone else thing there n810's metal faceplate looks like it has a blue-ish tint?02:22
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fireun(think their)02:23
z4chhindeed02:23
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z4chhjust wondering because i got my n810 today, and i pulled it out and was like "wtf, it looks blue"02:24
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pjrmi've forgotten my garage/wiki maemo.org password.  How do i get it reset or mailed to me?02:25
z4chhit is probably just because of the reflection of light though02:25
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z4chhi did get some complaments today when i was using it :D02:26
z4chhmostly... "hey zach...is that your new iphone?"02:26
z4chh;p02:26
luke-jrz4chh: reflection of the felt case?02:27
luke-jrI hope you told them how iPhone sucks? ;)02:27
z4chhluke-jr, no the metal faceplate to me at least appears to be a blue-ish tint in the light02:27
z4chhluke-jr, nah i didn't want to confuse him more than he was ..i was just like "no....not exactly"02:28
z4chh;p02:28
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z4chhif i said the iphone sucked to most people my age (highschoolers)....they would dismiss it automatically, everyone just about has an ipod, iphone, ipod touch w/e (except me) hah02:30
z4chhi won't have anything to do with apple myself..i will never buy their products and if i accidently accquired one for free..it will be sold as soon as possible or be in the trash ;)02:31
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luke-jrcan you write down my address and label it "Trash"?02:31
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z4chhxD02:32
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z4chhim trying to get used to n810 keyboard by typing pointless stuff in notes as fast as i can02:36
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z4chhi do really like it though!02:39
z4chhespecially having a n800 for like 2 years02:39
xntz4chh: actually the only thing I find wrong with the iphone/ipod is the sdk restrictions :P but i sort of hate the iphoneos, linux+ mer/maemo+ iphone+ hw keyboard(maybe?)= my dream device02:41
pjrmxnt: if not using apple software, then what's the appeal of the iphone ?02:42
xntiphone = quality hardware (sort of :P)02:42
pjrmnokia tablets have a higher resolution screen, for example (last time i looked at iphone specs)02:43
xntiphone res: 320 x 480 but i really don't care02:43
xnti have both02:43
xntand I like the n810 for its hackability02:43
xntand hw kb02:43
xntand I like the iphone for its sleekness02:43
z4chhapple does come out with some sleek stuff...but i refuse to marry them02:44
pupnik_the metal case picks up blue from the sky02:45
z4chhreally?02:45
pupnik_but it's also a bit blue02:45
pupnik_grey with a hint of blue02:45
z4chhoh ok02:45
pupnik_on a sunny day, mine looks bluer02:45
pupnik_under incandescent, it looks brown-grey02:46
z4chhi have been using it outside for the short time ive had it so far02:46
pupnik_kind of neat02:46
z4chhi love the transreflective display!02:46
z4chhwith my n800...it just totally fails outside02:47
pupnik_yes.  wait til you get used to the keyboard02:47
pupnik_it totally owns tapping the screen02:47
z4chhbeing an n800 owner for all this time, im really pleased with this n810 i got02:47
z4chhof course the major drawback is the sd slots02:48
pupnik_i'm very harsh on mine - unprotected in pockets, pens, pencils, even a screwdriver find use as stylus02:48
z4chhbut ive got an n800 with 2x 16gb sdhc :)02:48
pupnik_nice02:48
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z4chhi like the little case it came with hah02:48
z4chhit actually fits in there pretty snug02:49
pupnik_yeah02:49
pupnik_wonder where mine is02:49
z4chhand i like the thin stylus02:49
pupnik_i'm just saying it's quite a tank02:49
pupnik_has survived several drops02:49
z4chhdoes it look beaten up?02:49
pupnik_no.  can't see a scratch on the screen - the kickstand got a bit bent during a fall though02:49
z4chhthe little black cloth it came with is nice also02:50
z4chhdoes a lot better than my shirt02:50
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johnxhey lcuk :)02:53
z4chhhi lcuk02:53
lcukhiya02:54
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torkianommmm03:43
torkianomaemo 5 beta is out?03:43
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GeneralAntillesNot yet03:44
torkianoI think soon :)03:45
torkianohttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/03:45
zakkmlast edited-  today?03:46
CutMeOwnThroatz4chh, specially if you ever have an apple laptop, let me trash it for you03:50
zakkmapple laptops are awesome!03:51
z4chho_o03:52
z4chhthat uhm sarcasm? ;p03:52
CutMeOwnThroatzakkm, they are - and you can just put linux on them like on any laptop :)03:52
GeneralAntillesApple latops are surprisingly failure prone.03:53
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zakkmapple is a high brand, totally get what you pay for03:53
CutMeOwnThroatyeah... like...failure to let themselves be bought at a reasonable price03:54
CutMeOwnThroatbut that wouldn't matter, because I would just "trash" (ahem) it for z4chh03:54
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zakkmi wish i could have a apple laptop03:55
zakkmrun osx as a desktop03:56
CutMeOwnThroatof course, it might also be fun to play around with the apple os for a while03:56
CutMeOwnThroatalthough it'd surely get on my nerves for being different after a while03:56
zakkm;o03:57
zakkmapple OS is the only true OS, windows isnt a os ;p its garbage03:57
GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, what's your current desktop?03:57
CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, hmm, how to answer that03:57
CutMeOwnThroatcustom configured fvwm203:58
zakkmno fvwm-crystal? :)03:58
zakkmand you choose that over osx?03:58
GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, yeah, I don't think Aqua would cut it for you.03:58
zakkmgeneralantilles: still using adium irc, or did you go back?03:58
GeneralAntilleszakkm, still using it.03:59
CutMeOwnThroatwell... a) my own config is what I'm used to for years, so ... yeah, even if it looks ugly and everything I prefer it03:59
GeneralAntillesThe background CPU consumption alone is enough to make me switch at this point.03:59
zakkmdid you set it to automatically join channels?03:59
GeneralAntillesNope03:59
GeneralAntillesI need to tweak the theme at some point.04:00
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zakkmi use the default "Smooth operator" :D04:00
CutMeOwnThroatand b) my comment on osx was more about the underlying system - it'd be annoying because device structure and other things would be different so you start over learning04:00
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zakkmyou dont have to learn anything ;p04:00
zakkmit doesnt require you too04:01
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CutMeOwnThroatit does, when I want to change something04:01
CutMeOwnThroator need to04:01
zakkmi was referring to its a easy OS04:01
zakkminstalls are drag and drop. dock is awesome ;p better built in stuff04:02
zakkmgeneralantilles: did you see "Knots" ?04:02
zakkmfor the tablet?04:02
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CutMeOwnThroathm, I actually already had fvwm-crystal installed04:02
zakkmcause it pwns :)04:03
zakkmreason i bought my old nokia 770 was to try and run fvwm-crystal on it ;p04:03
GeneralAntilleszakkm, many months ago.04:03
zakkmgeneralantilles: just discovered it like 20 hours ago, and the guy helped me set it up , works so nice : )04:03
CutMeOwnThroat... now I'll have to start a 2nd Xserver and see what it looks like04:04
luke-jrbe glad you don't live in the USA04:05
luke-jrunless you do04:05
luke-jrthen run for it04:05
zakkm?04:06
zakkmluke-jr: ?04:06
luke-jrzakkm: this country is worse than a dictatorship04:07
zakkmlol04:07
CutMeOwnThroatluke-jr, so how many dictatorships have you lived in, exactly?04:07
GeneralAntilleslol04:07
zakkmi know enough in the US , some arent doing so bad04:07
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: none04:07
CutMeOwnThroathmmmm...04:07
GeneralAntillesUS is bad, but it's better than the alternatives.04:07
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: is it?04:08
zakkmi live in CANADA :)04:08
luke-jrwe have no rights04:08
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GeneralAntillesWe have a helluva lot of rights compared to most places.04:08
luke-jrzakkm: ok, I guess you just made GeneralAntilles's point about alternatives04:08
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: only if you don't exercise them ;)-04:08
CutMeOwnThroatluke-jr, how many countries ruled by a dictator have you VISITED, then?04:08
luke-jrtry to exercise your rights, and you'll end up dead or in jail04:08
zakkmrights dont have to be used?04:08
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luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: I cannot leave the state of Nebraska.04:08
zakkmluke-jr: not everybody lives where you live04:09
luke-jrzakkm: they're rights on paper only04:09
CutMeOwnThroatyou can't?04:09
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: not without being punished for it04:09
CutMeOwnThroatgood place for rights, on paper04:09
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luke-jror at least chased04:09
zakkmeven better is stoned :)04:09
zakkmgood ole cave people :D04:09
zakkmwritten in stone :)04:10
luke-jrmaybe single people have some rights04:10
zakkm?04:10
zakkmwhy cant you leave a state?04:10
xnt?04:10
zakkmluke-jr: why cant you leave the state?04:10
* xnt is confused04:10
CutMeOwnThroatzakkm, compiz would be funny if you could use 4 dimensinal hypercubes... can't understand why it wouldn't support this04:10
zakkmyou can add more than 4?04:11
zakkmyou can have 64 sides?04:11
xntcmot: yeah04:11
xntzakkm: yes that is possible (i think)04:11
CutMeOwnThroatzakkm, yes, but it only becomse a type of torus04:11
luke-jrzakkm: they'll chase me and arrest me04:11
luke-jrhttp://www.senatornancyschaefer.com/newsletters_updates.php?filter=4304:11
zakkmcutmeownthroat: you dont have unofficial / extras plugins installed do you?04:11
zakkmtheres more to compiz than in repository04:12
zakkmsvn and git has tonssssssssss of plugins.. 100's worth04:12
zakkmthat arent in any repository04:12
CutMeOwnThroatI tried all the stuff that Debian had04:12
luke-jrzakkm: they make a profit off denying my rights04:12
CutMeOwnThroatbut the desktop just wouldn't become big enough for me04:12
luke-jra huge profit04:12
CutMeOwnThroatI GOT IT!04:12
zakkmbig enouigh?04:13
CutMeOwnThroatluke-jr, is the gopher they show around on gophers day!04:13
zakkmbigger monitor, lower DPI, ?04:13
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: go read the article04:13
xntcmot: compiz-svn04:14
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killfillhi04:15
killfillits impossible to download nokia's firmware...04:15
killfill( RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin )04:15
killfillwhere could i download it form another place?04:15
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luke-jrkillfill: you can't; keep trying04:15
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killfill916bytes/s.. :S04:16
luke-jrkillfill: Nokia is closed source, so it's illegal for us to send it to you04:16
luke-jrsorry04:16
killfill:S04:16
killfillisnt there a open-source one?.. :P04:16
luke-jryeah, that was my reaction at some points too04:16
luke-jrnope04:16
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luke-jrNokia may market their stuff as open source, but it's a lie. It is not possible to use it without closed source04:17
killfillyup04:17
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luke-jrhm04:17
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luke-jrI wonder if they do in fact advertise that04:17
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, Nokia doesn't market their stuff as open source.04:17
luke-jrah, just rumour then :<04:18
GeneralAntillesSo you say something like it's a fact, then wonder if it's actually true 30 seconds later?04:18
luke-jror false hope04:18
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: "may"04:18
GeneralAntillesI don't think may means what you think it means in that context.04:18
luke-jreg, I didn't say "Nokia does market…"04:18
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CutMeOwnThroatand which of them is you?04:22
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xntluke-jr: that story is messed up, read the part about the foster parent leaving the baby in the car04:24
xntwell the actions of the cps is04:25
CutMeOwnThroatxnt, and anyway... he's the grandma? rright04:25
xntno read ctrl+f in firefox: While in their anxiety and turmoil to get their child home, the baby was left for hours in a car to die in the heat in her car seat by a foster parent who forgot a04:27
xntcopy and paste that segment then do ctrl+f and paste04:27
CutMeOwnThroatit also fails to mention that the mother was a drug-addict, which was the reason the child was taken from her in the first place04:27
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CutMeOwnThroatopen needles lying around all over the house when they 1st took the kid04:28
xntand the grandmother?04:28
CutMeOwnThroata dealer?04:28
CutMeOwnThroatwhat do I know04:28
xnt:P nevermind04:28
CutMeOwnThroatI just say the article doesn't even mention why it was taken away04:29
CutMeOwnThroatthis is clearly written in a one-sided way04:29
xntwell the point is that the part about the car is sad04:29
luke-jrxnt: it's all true04:29
xntseriously killing a baby because of carelessness?04:29
luke-jrno, CPS being abusive04:30
xntexactly04:30
CutMeOwnThroatso you can't leave your state because you're locked into a car?04:30
xnt?04:31
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: because the state kidnapped my kids04:32
xntcmot, luke-jr: read little brother its a cc book http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/04:32
xntbrb04:32
luke-jrxnt: why?04:33
luke-jrI know from experience that CPS has no legitimacy in at least the majority of their abuse.04:34
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xntluke-jr: its about a 17 year old in sf and his city is attacked and the dhs violates the bill of rights, and takes everyone's privacy away, and how he stopped them, its a good read, and it has linux in it too :)04:37
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z4chhhow come transfering a backup folder from device to another doesn't get recognized by the backup/restore program?04:43
z4chhahhh04:47
z4chhit has to be in a folder called backups04:47
z4chh:)04:47
z4chhbutter me up04:48
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z4chhi get a Connection refused when i try to ssh onto my new n810..did i miss something during install? o_o05:48
zakkmyou have ssh installed on tablet?05:49
zakkmdid you say yes to adding key when you tried connecting?05:49
zakkmdid you connect user@ip ?05:49
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CutMeOwnThroatdid you do it from inside the NAT...05:52
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z4chheh NAT?05:53
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z4chhzakkm, all that checks out05:53
z4chhConnection Refused is usually a hosts.deny error o.o05:54
z4chhin which case i would add in the sshd: ALL: ALLOW05:54
z4chhhosts.allow05:54
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zakkmz4chh: it shouldnt have to05:55
zakkmz4chh: openssh or dropbear ssh?05:55
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z4chhopenssh05:56
z4chhi have that...and openssh-client openssh-server05:56
zakkmyou installed, you set a key05:57
z4chhno05:57
z4chha password maybe05:57
zakkmnokia contrlling pc or pc controlling computer?05:57
z4chhi guess that is key05:57
zakkmpassword gets encrypted = key .05:57
zakkmcompute ryou put ssh root@192.168.x.xxx ?05:57
z4chhim using remote computer to ssh onto my new n81005:57
zakkmand said yes to allow?05:57
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z4chhnah right away i get05:58
z4chhssh: connect to host 10.13.37.252 port 22: Connection refused05:58
zakkmyou connecting from same wireless?05:58
zakkmsame network?05:58
johnxtry sshing to the tablet from itself05:58
z4chhyes05:58
z4chhjohnx, that works :D05:59
zakkmoh on 1005:59
zakkmssh root@10.13.37.252      ?05:59
zakkmyou did?05:59
johnxyeah, give that a shot too05:59
z4chhjohnx, my tablet can ssh onto the machine that i tried to ssh into my tablet with05:59
z4chhzakkm, yes05:59
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zakkmyou check ifconfig wlan0 to make sure thats the right ip of the tablet?05:59
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z4chhwhoa wtf05:59
johnxok, next step, try turning off wifi power saving mode temporarily to test05:59
z4chhit magically worked when i just did it now o_O06:00
johnxcould be a wifi power saving issue06:00
zakkmwooh06:00
zakkm;p06:00
zakkmjohnx: what tablet you have? :)06:00
z4chhthanks for your help, although im not a big fan of getting something to work and having no idea how06:01
z4chh;p06:01
johnxif it fails later, look at wifi psm06:01
johnxzakkm, n80006:01
z4chhalright06:01
zakkmz4chh: you check out knots? :)06:01
zakkmcoolest app ever :D06:02
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z4chhjohnx, from a long time n800 user and recent n810 owner...i say getting an n810 is worth it ;p06:02
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z4chhzakkm, no what is it?06:02
johnxz4chh, why?06:02
zakkmit lets you share your media from your computer06:02
zakkmand view it on your tablet06:02
zakkmit transcodes while you start video06:02
zakkmcomputer would transcode on-the-fly06:02
zakkmnice ui on tablet and such06:02
zakkmi want a n810 :D06:02
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zakkmso expensive06:03
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johnxback later, gotta eat dinner06:03
luke-jroh fun06:04
luke-jrretarded telepathy-gabble eats 99% CPU06:04
luke-jrany way to kill it off?06:04
luke-jr(permenantly)06:04
zakkmwhats gabby?06:04
zakkmhey you happen to know the msn haze fix? :)06:04
z4chhjohnx, well since you may not share my views..from a logical standpoint 1. it is dropped in price significantly 2. it is a sleek device with some truly nice upgrades (just dont have the sd slots) 3. n810 comes with some cool stuff06:04
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z4chhalright hmmm ssh connection closed, i try ssh again, connection refused (again)..i turned off psm..no effect06:11
z4chhthis is odd06:11
zakkmheh06:11
zakkmkill it?06:11
zakkmdoes sftp work?06:11
z4chhno o.o06:12
z4chhconnection refused >.>06:13
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luke-jrwhy does my wifi think it is 00:02:ee:c0:ff:ee ?06:33
luke-jr:/06:33
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man_in_pdaare there light-weight themes for maemo/hildon?07:34
GeneralAntilleslight-weight?07:35
man_in_pda:)07:35
GeneralAntillesThere isn't much weight to the default themes.07:35
zakkmminimalistic you mean?07:36
GeneralAntillesHildon, not itT.07:36
man_in_pdawell07:37
zakkmin terms of cpu/ram and such, you cant really get much quicker / less system intensive07:37
zakkmyou can get smaller fonts and transparent ui  ?07:37
man_in_pdahmm07:40
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zakkmhey is it possible to have more than 127 brightness's on n800, having brightness at 1 is too high for me and 0 makes everything total darkness on n80008:33
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GeneralAntillesNo, that's the hardware limit.08:35
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johnxzakkm, also, cross posting isn't cool :P08:36
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thuxmorning, morgon, dobroe utro,09:04
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paul0i've just read about the Maemo 5 (Fremantle), it wil run on N800?09:23
StsN800nop09:26
paul0:/09:28
StsN800~mer09:31
infobotmer is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer09:31
StsN800will be the cloz09:31
StsN800closest api wise09:31
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radicwhat's the repository for abiword?10:02
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aquatixradic: isn't it in Extra?10:11
radicno10:11
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danielwilmsits in extras-devel10:13
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radicdanielwilms: ahh, that's not in my list10:15
radiccan you give me the entry?10:15
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danielwilmsradic: the url is http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel10:17
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danielwilmsradic: the rest u can take from the extras-entry, depends on the release you are using ;)10:20
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Jaffare10:55
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Stskeepsmorning11:08
keesjHI11:09
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* Stskeeps ponders if today or tomorrow is beta release11:10
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Macerfor?11:17
Macerhow is that n800 working out Stskeeps ?11:18
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Macerno scrolling screen helping a bit? ;)11:18
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StskeepsMacer: yeah11:24
Stskeepsi had a small scare when it started flickering different colours all of a sudden, but i think that was just an odd fluke11:24
Stskeepsdidn't happen again11:25
Stskeepsif so that'd just be the lcd connector11:25
Stskeepswhich i know how to put in place11:25
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mgedmintelling horror stories next to a bonfire?11:29
* rmt yawwwwnlegs11:29
mgedminhave I ever told how I cracked my n810's LCD?11:30
Stskeepsdid you see my scrolling LCD? :P11:30
mgedminno11:33
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU11:34
RST38hSts: It is gently reminding you that it is time to buy n9x0? =)11:37
Stskeepsafter a year, yes11:37
RST38hDoes not look like a problem with LCD though11:37
Stskeepsprobably blizzard chip11:38
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Stskeepsmgedmin: you were the one to log #maemo or how was it?13:06
Stskeepsnm, i'll just use your script :)13:07
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mgedminStskeeps: yep13:45
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wazd_n800Heyhey!13:54
wazd_n800Beta SDK released!13:54
Stskeepswoo!13:55
Stskeepsi don't see it yet :p13:55
wazd_n800I'm at Fruct, it was announced13:55
Stskeepshehe13:55
JaffaIndeed :)13:55
JaffaNo announcement on maemo.org yet.13:56
X-FadeWell, announce != available ;)13:56
Jaffawazd_n800: anything with the announcement, or is it just the SDK?13:56
* Jaffa likes getting the beta SDK, but would rather have some h/w :)13:56
wazd_n800X-Fade well, they told that it's already available13:56
X-Fadewazd_n800: Marketing speech ;)13:57
Stskeepsthere goes the week13:57
Jaffawazd_n800: Perhaps it is if you can randomly guess URLs.13:57
Stskeepswazd_n800: saw any demos?13:58
wazd_n800well, they started to describe it right now13:58
wazd_n800Stskeeps, maybe they will show'em later13:58
StskeepsJaffa: heads up btw, we'll change where rss comes from, as i want to drop jaiku13:59
Stskeepsthere'll come a mail around about the "new ways" later13:59
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wazd_n800I'll keep you in touch)14:00
JaffaStskeeps: cool, if you can get them side-by-side running for a while (or the new one set up before dropping Jaiku), I should be able to make the transition seamless.14:00
Stskeepsyep14:00
RST38hmoo wazd14:00
RST38hwazd: So what is new in the beta SDK?14:01
mikkov_ this was earlier at itt http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/14:01
Stskeepsmikkov_: nothing interesting though, some new widgets thoug14:01
wazd_n800RST38h, they're telling bout SDK+ now(14:03
JaffaBeta SDK should contain a frozen API and proper documentation (incl. UI guidelines) and some Hildon Desktop stuff.14:03
wazd_n800BTW, Mer was already mentioned by Eero Tamminen)14:03
Stskeepswazd_n800: should shake Eero's hand - he has done a really impressive job with Maemo and streamlining it with performance14:04
wazd_n800lcuk, ping?)14:07
wazd_n800sts14:07
wazd_n800Stskeeps, ok)14:07
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RST38hwazd: MaemoSDK+ is different stuff, old too14:08
RST38haka Scratchbox2, basically14:08
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wazd_n800they actually shown Beta SDK maemo.org  page sooo X-Fade is hiding something :P14:10
X-Fadewazd_n800: Heh, I don't have it. Honestly.14:10
* RST38h counts scalpels and scissors, while looking at X-Fade meaningfully14:12
X-FadeRST38h: I'm on your side of the firewall, so really.. I don't have it.14:13
RST38h:)14:14
RST38hX-Fade: Hour later or earlier, it does not really matter14:14
RST38hWould be cool if at least some of the applications are included though...14:15
lcukwazd_n800, hi14:15
lcukhave you met up with vlad then14:15
RST38hmoo lcuk14:16
lcukhey rst14:16
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mikkov_Maemo 5 Beta SDK link is appearing and disapperaring at http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ menubar14:17
lcukits like the tardis14:18
X-Fademikkov_: <blink>link</blink> ? :D14:18
lcuklol X-Fade14:18
mikkov_reloading makes it appear and disappear randomly14:18
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mikkov_http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_sdk/14:19
Stskeepsworks on and off14:19
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RST38hNot here14:19
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mikkov_now it works14:19
lcukserver side blink!14:19
lcukweb 2.014:19
mikkov_now it disappeared :)14:20
lcukthe poor 770 on the desk at the side of x-fade is up in smoke14:20
X-Fadelcuk: Cracked the case open and added a fan ;)14:20
RST38hIt shows up in Firefox but not in IE14:20
RST38hSneaky14:20
wazd_n800lcuk: heya)14:20
RST38hX-Fade: So, does it levitate now? =)14:20
X-FadeRST38h: Well one thing is for sure, we don't check for your browser ;)14:21
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StskeepsFM transmit api, neat14:21
RST38hstatus area and task switcher are still missing14:21
X-FadeYou're probably hopping from server to server by the loadbalancer.14:21
lcukx-fade does the difference indicate you actually have a cluster :O14:21
RST38hso, it is more like alpha than beta...14:21
wazd_n800lcuk: Vlad told me bout your drunk parties :D14:21
StskeepsRST38h: check if it says "alpha" in top14:21
RST38hAH!14:21
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RST38hSts: looks like release notes are still from Alpha!14:22
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Stskeepssdk release days are kinda like christmas14:23
Stskeeps:P14:23
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wazd_n800lcuk: Vlad asks, how's your finger?14:23
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wazd_n800so, is beta online?14:24
X-Fadewazd_n800: no14:24
lcukwazd_n800, it hurts like a bitch, but the electric shock feeling has stopped14:24
lcukX-Fade, did you see the xray :O14:25
mikkov_here's something but I can't login http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_docs/14:28
X-FadeLol, detective mikkov ;)14:28
wazd_n800=))14:28
lcuk\o danielwilms14:29
mikkov_the link is at beta sdk page if happen to be lucky to get it loaded14:29
mikkov_there is no installer links yet14:29
lcukwazd_n800, i had to stay mostly sober, but on the first night i drank more than usual lol14:31
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RST38hmaemo_5_beta_sdk page is gone again14:33
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RST38hMeanwhile, the fit-width-to-view debacle continues...14:38
andre__does it?14:38
RST38hyea, check the ITT14:38
Stskeeps'lo andre__14:39
andre__maybe "debacle" is a too strong word to me :)14:39
andre__heja14:39
RST38handre: lots of responses to this thread14:40
* RST38h would really just suggest that Nokia keeps the option but reimplements it in some saner way14:40
andre__...which i wouldn't call a debacle, but open source culture :-P14:40
andre__hmm, well. to me it's broken by design14:40
cosmo_is there ping6 available for os2008 somewhere?14:41
RST38handre: this has nothing to do with open source culture, it is just a bunch of vocal users disagreeing with a decisionmade by the manufacturer14:41
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RST38handre: dunno, maybe some redefinition of how it operates would work14:41
andre__cosmo_, if so, it's included in busybox14:41
andre__RST38h, hmm, right14:42
RST38handre: because the need to reflow the page that does not fit the screen is indeed there14:42
andre__cosmo_, ping6 should be available in Fremantle according to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=989#c1914:42
cosmo_andre__: nope. i guess ipv6 is not "officially supported"14:42
andre__it's not for Diablo14:43
* Stskeeps really thought it was in maemo414:43
RST38handre: Maybe replace "Fit" with "Attempt to fit" and bail out when the page layout does not allow it14:43
lcukhow would you  know the page doesnt allow it?14:43
andre__RST38h, i agree there's a need. however, the current approach is busted. and rewriting it does not seem to be an option - dead end. don't know myself (not a dev), but that's the feedback i've heard14:44
lcukRST38h, websites that supportfit to width themselves do it already?14:45
lcukthats normal html14:45
lcukmoan at site operators for expecting too much space14:45
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* lcuk has a pet peeve with sites that DONT adjust themselves to my window14:46
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RST38hlcuk: Oh nobody does it nowadays, including our very own "new maemo.org design" (sic)14:46
lcukon my desktop i hate seeing sites with huge white gaps at the sides cos they deem it right to automatically cuttext into thin columns14:46
RST38hlcuk: But some sites can still be reflown14:46
andre__*drumroll*: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta/14:46
jjoit's not all there yet14:47
jjoplease wait a while ;)14:47
StskeepsJaffa: http://n2.nabble.com/Mer-Chatter-f2732813.xml14:47
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RST38hlcuk: Things went out of the window the moment some bright mind decided to introduce CSS14:47
* lcuk watches as andre__'s drumsticks are confescated lol14:48
RST38hlcuk: I still remember the famous "IMG tag considered harmful" argument, but what really killed HTML was CSS14:48
lcuknothing "killed" html, sites have always had the ability to misbehave and layout badly14:49
andre__grumble. :-P14:49
lcukisnt geocities just being taken down now lol14:49
andre__no, there's a company continuing with geocities iirc14:49
lcukthe site itself is goin down, there was a posting about someone archiving it with a view to making it available14:49
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lcuk(slashdot posting)14:50
RST38hlcuk: yes but before CSS it could still be controlled14:50
andre__lcuk, http://www.jimdo.com/geocities14:50
lcukcss gives MORE power to you though, since you yourself can use local css to overwrite anything14:50
andre__but you're right it seems14:50
RST38hlcuk: once these monkeys became able to place elements at fixed coordinates, all went to shit14:50
lcuki have always had that with tables14:51
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RST38hlcuk: you can basically write a parses that verifies a tree of tables14:51
RST38hs/parses/parser14:51
Stskeepsmm, fresh kernel14:51
RST38hlcuk: with CSS it becomes too complicated14:52
Stskeepstv-out, it seems14:52
* RST38h imagines his <tentative> N9x0 connected to a TV and playing Castlevania14:52
lcukoooh14:52
Stskeepsfmrx14:53
RST38hJust please give me a screen that I can press with my finger not being afraid to break it14:53
lcukthats not the tv tho14:53
Stskeepsoh foo14:53
Stskeepsmicrosd14:53
lcuk?14:54
* lcuk goes back to work14:54
lcukStskeeps, i have lots of microsd's - i keep  losing em14:54
lcuko_O i should replace my fingernail with one14:55
lcukbbl14:55
Stskeepshm, resistive ts14:55
Stskeeps(tsc2005)14:55
* Stskeeps wonders wtf about IR support though14:56
X-Fadetv remote ;)14:56
* RST38h is ok about resistive TS as long as it is the same as in 580014:59
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Stskeepskulve: new xserver-xorg-video-fbdev has new stuff, it seems15:03
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RST38hlcuk: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/28/irish_yorkshire/ !15:06
kulveStskeeps: oh, need to check it our15:06
kulveout15:06
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JaffaStskeeps: do you want the subtitle to be the content, if present?15:21
StskeepsJaffa: ideally subject = the text in feed15:22
Stskeepsand then redirect to nabble post15:22
JaffaOK15:22
Stskeepsthe idea is to make mer-chatter "microbloggin"15:22
Stskeepswhere we combine subject (what was accomplished, in short) and then full explanation if such is exists15:22
Stskeepswill put a bot in #mer that can send out mails upon a command as well15:23
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JaffaNew modest UI looks interesting on http://maemo.org/news/announcements/call_to_developers_maemo_5_beta_sdk_out/15:25
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Stskeeps'lo roope :)15:25
Jaffahi roope15:25
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RST38hJaffa: When you leave only 1/4 of the screen to actual email message, that is not "interesting" but plain stupid =(15:26
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roopeHi.15:26
rooperst38h: it scrolls and expands.15:27
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RST38hroope: Expands under what conditions?15:27
StskeepsThe libhildon library is now developed openly in its garage project.15:27
Stskeepsneat15:27
RST38hSts: finally!15:27
StskeepsThe Help library is dropped. Diablo applications that use context-sensitive help and use the libhildonhelp library would need to remove the dependencies from their packages inorder to work in Fremantle.15:27
Stskeepsyay, no help15:27
roopeIf there's more text, I think. Unless if that screenshot is of some other mail client.15:28
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roopelemme check.15:28
RST38hroope: the screenshot seems to show the send-message interface15:28
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Jaffa...of modest.15:30
JaffaRST38h: I was assuming the dialogue would act as roope is describing - otherwise, yes, it's a bit crap.15:30
RST38haha, task switcher and status area are still missing15:30
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roopeAh, yes, it scales. If there is more text than what fits the area, the area expands.15:30
roopeSo that eventualyl the whole page is of the text field.15:31
RST38hJaffa: I can't see how it can expand in that particular screenshot - no Ui controls for that and no text to begin with15:31
* Meizirkki wornders why the hell more and more companies are saying their devices can run linux OR android ...15:31
roopeIt's pretty neat, in a way.15:31
RST38hroope: Kinda like some IM clients?15:31
roopeYes.15:31
RST38hI see...hmm, that should be neat then15:31
roopeThe entire box scales, even up to more than one page height. As high as it needs to go.15:32
RST38hMeizirkki: more bullets on the feature list = more interest15:32
roopeThe new email is _so_ much better than the old one. :)15:32
Stskeepsit actually works?15:32
Stskeeps:P15:32
roopeYes, it's actually usable. :)15:32
* Stskeeps has wanted to throw his tablet out the window at times over Modest.15:32
Stskeeps:p15:32
Myrttidoes it actually play nice with IMAP?15:33
RST38hroope: will there be a Diablo version? =)15:33
roopeI use it with my gmail imap, and yeah, it's pretty cool.15:33
RST38hDoes it work with POP3 too now? =)15:33
Myrttiroope: so sent mails are put to gmail imap sent mails and not internal sent mail folder?15:33
roopethe gmail labels work, for instance.15:33
Myrttiwoot15:33
JaffaRST38h: If it's now open, we could backport it15:33
X-FadeJaffa: It is in git.maemo.org, so ;)15:34
* Myrtti licks Jaffa15:34
Myrttiplease do backport it :-D15:34
roopemyrtti: I don't recall right now.15:35
JaffaIf we're going to do a community SSU containing HAM, we ould do one including modest as well15:35
RST38hJaffa: This depends on how far its dependencies are from diablo though15:35
JaffaRST38h: indeed15:36
RST38hroope: gmail labels will work independently on the mail client15:36
roopeBut for the features I think (?) people can just install it and test it for themselvse.15:36
RST38hroope: gmail exposes labelled items as separate IMAP folders15:36
rooperst38h: ok. well, they work, anyway. :)15:36
RST38hroope: I am more interested in whether it still gets stuck when it fails to establish a connection15:37
Myrttithe part that really sucks with the old email client is that if you use it with imap, and send mail, the sent mail remain on the device and are not put into the imap folder, and there is no nice way of subscribing the imap ones anyway15:37
RST38hrooper: the current modest is very sensitiive to connection failures, it goes bonkers and continues to go bonkers until I make it save config15:37
RST38hAnd POP3 is just so weirdly broken that I can't even describe it =(15:38
roopeI've done only limited testing with the new one, but my initial impressions are mostly very positive.15:38
roopeBut i haven't tried pop, for instance.15:38
roope(since imap is the better alternative anyway). :)15:38
andre__RST38h, file me some modest bugs please (if you refer to recent code and not to diablo) :)15:39
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* Stskeeps wonders what a beta release now will do to the speculation threads15:55
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Stskeepstimsamoff: you're more than welcome to idle in #mer too ;)15:56
timsamoff'T'salright... ;) I've got a meeting (I think) in #maemo-meeting, so I'm cleaning up.15:57
Stskeepshehe15:57
* Stskeeps tries to get an overview of how much we have to do to integrate fremantle beta pieces15:57
* Myrtti loves rsync15:57
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RST38handre: There is no point filing bugs, they will not be fixed.15:58
RST38handre: in fact, the last ones I have filed on Modest still have not been fixed in Diablo.15:59
* timsamoff has English muffin and coffee.15:59
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danielwilms-16:04
Stskeeps~16:04
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danielwilmsStskeeps: :D typed in the wrong window i guess ;)16:05
Stskeepshehe16:05
keesjRST38h: modest was moving to open source again...16:05
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JaffaStskeeps: mer-chatter now should be being included16:10
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StskeepsJaffa: thanks16:11
timsamoffJaffa: Do you guys call English muffins English muffins? Or just muffins?16:11
Myrttimmmmm muffins16:11
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wjttimsamoff: i for one call them “muffins”16:12
JaffaWe have two things we call "muffins": light, sweet cakes (I think you call them "muffins") and savoury flat, dusty things, often served at McDonalds with eggs in for breakfast (are these "English" muffins?)16:12
timsamoffJaffa: Yes, but... There are better English muffins than that!16:13
timsamoffJaffa: http://www.wolfermans.com/gifts/store/home__10053_1000516:13
Jaffahttp://onefh.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/plain-old-muffin.jpg is a "muffin" and http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/images/bacon-egg-muffin.jpg is a (breakfast) muffin.16:13
JaffaWe also have crumpets which may be closer to what that picture is showing16:14
wjtcrumpets and muffins are *so* not interchangable16:15
timsamoffJaffa: I will try to smuggle a Wolferman's English muffin to the next Summit for you. ;)16:16
RST38hdepends on what you are doing with them16:16
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Jaffawjt: No, indeed - but look at the picture - it has holes in.16:17
wjthmm16:18
wjtthey look suspicous16:18
wjti wouldn't trust 'em16:18
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timeless_mbphello16:22
* timeless_mbp recovers macbook16:23
timeless_mbpso... it turns out that my mac just forgot how to load my zpool... and now i know how to... so i have a happy mac :)16:23
timeless_mbpwell, mostly16:23
RST38handre: Are you the guy accepting bug reports on the new SDK documentation?16:24
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Stskeepstimsamoff: woo :)16:25
Stskeepserr, timeless_mbp: woo :)16:25
Stskeepswasn't that the problem i pondered it was? :P16:25
timeless_mbpwhat did you ponder the problem to be?16:25
timeless_mbpRST38h: there is a guy accepting it16:26
timeless_mbpit isn't really andre, but you should be able to contact the primary person directly16:26
timeless_mbpor file a bug in bugzilla in the SDK area, they should be reading them16:26
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: that you lost your zpool.cache and needed to zpool import again? :P16:27
danielwilmsRST38h: but what's wrong with the documemtation...perhaps its fast solvable ;)16:27
timeless_mbpwhat's a zpool.cache?16:27
timeless_mbpbut basically, yes, i need to zpool import at each boot :(16:27
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: it's the cache in /etc with what pools are loaded16:27
RST38hdaniel: it should be16:29
RST38hdaniel: Check http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_docs/using_multimedia_components/16:29
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RST38hdaniel: 1. there is a huge blacked out block; 2. there is a stray </a> (just found it)16:29
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RST38hdaniel: And 3. All the code samples come up on grey background for some reason, I would suggest wheat instead because it closely mimics the paper16:30
Myrttitheheheheheh *snork16:30
Myrtti*16:31
* thux powertop seems to really work even with amd cpu16:31
thuxi have a silent lap now!16:32
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StskeepsRST38h: blacked out block.. SCP?16:33
RST38hSts: may actually hide a meme making reader gay! =)16:34
Jaffathux: even with C-states?16:35
* Myrtti confesses nothing16:35
thuxJaffa: what is C-states?16:35
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danielwilmsRST38h: 1. I dont see, 2. changed, 3. it is meant to be like this ;)16:37
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thuxbut not silent all the time once in while one fan blows air, but powertop put on laptop-mode and increased time when writes dirty buffers16:37
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andre__RST38h, just file everything+1 :)16:47
RST38hdaniel: 1. black rectangle starts a few lines below g_warning ("Error getting item %d "16:47
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lopzhola16:48
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RST38hFolks, could somebody verify that the blacked out part is present for daniel? URL is http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_docs/using_multimedia_components/16:48
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RST38hdaniel: As to #3, could you please consider changing the color? Gray really *isn't* the best background color for reading. I do not think you have seen many books printed on gray paper16:49
timsamoffRST38h: The background is part of the main site style, no?16:50
Myrttitimsamoff: I guess he means the code snippets16:50
timsamoffRight... I think that's in the main site CSS. As X-Fade.16:51
danielwilmstimsamoff yes it is16:51
Myrttitimsamoff: I know it is16:51
RST38htimsamoff: Well, if the code snippet background is part of the main site style then that is your bug report not daniel's16:51
MyrttiRST38h: the gray background is legacy of the old training material16:51
timsamoffLodge a report to have it change. ;)16:51
RST38hMyrtti: does it mean it is there to stay? =)16:52
timsamoff*changed.16:52
MyrttiRST38h: not necessarily, I just explained where it roots from16:52
RST38htimsamoff: It has been already done, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439416:52
timsamoffOh, ok. :)16:52
timsamoffAlthough the product/component is wrong if you want something on the website changed.16:53
RST38htimsamoff: yes, I will change it in a moment16:54
timsamoffOk.16:54
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RST38htimsamoff: my suggestion is to use #FFFFF0 or similar color16:54
RST38hslightly off-white16:54
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timsamoffI have no preference as long as you're warm anf uzzy. :p16:54
timsamoff*fuzzy16:55
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Myrttiold lace16:55
Myrttioldlace, which would be...16:55
Myrtti#FDF5E616:56
RST38hyea16:56
timsamoffIf it were me, I'd use #fffbf2.16:56
RST38hexcept that it is shown as white on my notebook16:57
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Myrttihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Lace_(color)16:57
RST38hToshiba was too greedy and put low bpp LCD into it16:57
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danielwilmscan anyone reproduce this?? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439116:58
* RST38h checked and found that Lenovo is also greedy - #fffbf2 will look white on Thinkpadfs16:58
X-FadeBetter now?16:59
StskeepsRST38h: no blackout in ff316:59
RST38hX-Fade: Oh yessss16:59
danielwilmsX-Fade good!16:59
RST38hSts: IE6 shows no blackout too16:59
RST38hBut FF3 does17:00
timsamoffLooks fine in FF3 to me (Mac).17:00
X-Fadelooks fine to me in FF3 windows17:01
RST38hWait, I have got a funny idea...I am looking at it through an Intel proxy17:01
RST38hMaybe THAT thing blacks it out?!?17:01
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Jaffadanielwilms: not in Firefox 3.0.9, IE7 or Google Chrome17:02
RST38hdaniel: Close it then, and I will double check from home just in case17:03
X-FadeI even added a print.css for printing the docs last week ;)17:03
X-FadeAlthough that needs some tweakng still ;)17:03
danielwilms RST38h: ok17:03
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apopelohi17:10
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apopeloi've created a greasemonkey script for iPhone version of GMail17:10
apopeloit adjusts size of all elements to fit tablet's screen17:11
apopelohttp://popelo.com/trash/better-google-for-iphone-v2-screenshot.png17:11
apopeloif somebody interested, details are here - http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2860417:11
Maceryawn17:13
Macerim tired17:13
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keesjapopelo: but why didn't you read my mail :P17:17
apopelokeesj: :P17:18
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Jaffaapopelo: Has Greasemonkey been ported to microb?17:20
apopeloJaffa: yup17:22
apopeloJaffa: http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/3/17:22
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Jaffaapopelo: How well does it work in microb, without any of the whizzy HTML 5 features?17:28
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apopeloJaffa: well, i didn't experience any problems yet17:31
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falkinskiHi I'm trying to setup ssh on my N810 and I need to know how I create a new user in the terminal. Command for Ubuntu/Debian 'adduser' does not work. What should I do?18:05
keesjthe user is called "user"18:06
Jaffafalkinski: The question which immediately comes to mind is "why do you want to add a new user?". You've got both "root" and "user" already.18:06
keesjso ssh user@n81018:06
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keesjand vi .ssh/config Host n810 \nUser user onyour local machine18:07
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falkinskiJaffa: Need to make a user with a password (ssh asks for it) and I dont remember the fabric made password18:07
keesjor use Mer :p18:07
qwerty12falkinski, you can ssh in as root and "su - user" to get a shell as "user" if you don't wish to give "user" a password18:08
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keesjI use ssh keys most of the time , but that all doesn't answer his question :p18:13
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keesjon my install there is a useradd command btw18:14
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falkinskiThx all, it's working18:15
keesjrly?18:15
falkinskiYepp18:16
falkinskiqwerty12 told me to change root pw so now it works yay18:17
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oilinkiI start to think if there would be different users/user profiles for different situations for n81018:21
oilinkicould it be beneficial18:22
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oilinkiat least different profiles for family members could be usefull if someone else would like to take the device for usage.18:23
falkinskioilinki: Like a loginpage?18:24
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oilinkithen one profile for car usage with easy access to mapper and music.18:24
oilinkifalkinski: login page for different users. profiles for different usage.18:25
StsN801maemo is very hardcoded to user sadly18:26
oilinkione time I did function for n810. when ever it left the home network, maemo mapper started. then again, when coming back to home wlan area, mapper closed and POI's were updated to the server so that it could be shared with other devices.18:28
oilinkianyway it would be nice if the device would sense the environment and act accordingly18:30
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: hey, i don't suppose you speak LaunchD ? :)18:39
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: sorry, i don't have a mac so :P18:47
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VDVsxwow, I can color maemopad icons in the beta sdk, lolool18:56
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VDVsxmouse over the icons make them blue :P18:57
VDVsxnice feature,lolol18:57
Stskeepshehe18:57
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* RST38h has read the list of swine flu symptoms and came to conclusion that he has it.19:02
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RST38hRUN FOR YOUR LIVES!19:02
qwerty12HOLY SHIT19:02
qwerty12I knew you mooing would come to no good19:02
jeremiah_Dude, you're a gonner.19:02
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dnearyHi19:03
dnearyX-Fade: I'd be afraid I'm about to make a mistake19:03
X-Fadedneary: Then maybe you should not do it? :)19:03
dnearyWill you be able to review a change to maemo2midgard?19:03
X-Fadesure19:03
dnearyX-Fade: I don't have any way to test what effect the change will have on the web bage19:04
dnearyI'll attach a patch to the "Karma isn't formatted right" bug19:04
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dnearyX-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=436519:07
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VDVsx_anyone have success installing apps from fremantle-extras in the beta sdk ?19:10
X-FadeVDVsx_: They shouldn't ;)19:10
VDVsx_I got this: http://pastebin.ca/140624019:10
RST38hWhich reminds me to add fremantle-extras to dput.cf, install the sdk and try recompiling19:11
RST38hX-Fade: Does SB2 support Fremantle already?19:11
X-FadeRST38h: I have no idea.19:11
VDVsx_X-Fade, why ?19:11
X-FadeVDVsx_: Because there is no Fremantle extras ..19:11
VDVsx_ok extras-devel :P19:12
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jeremiah_/var/lib/dpkg/info/leafpad.postinst: line 7: maemo-select-menu-location: command not found19:13
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jeremiah_^^ looks like that might be your problem19:14
X-FadeYeah, but that should just be available.19:14
qwerty12maemo-select-menu-location is depreciated in Fremantle but a dummy binary should be there...19:14
X-FadeAs that is a core script.19:14
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X-FadeHmm this should be updated too: http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-devel.html19:14
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jeremiah_VDVsx_: You had these problems in the beta SDK for frementle right? I can fireup my SDK and see if I can repeat those problems, then file a bug if needed.19:16
VDVsx_jeremiah_, ok, thanks19:16
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jeremiah_It was leafpad you installed?19:17
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VDVsx_jeremiah_, yup, but it happens in other apps too19:17
X-FadeVDVsx_: Yeah, I would image that to happen as this was perfecty valid in diablo etc.19:18
Maceryawn19:18
VDVsx_X-Fade, yah, but those apps worked fine in the alpha SDK19:19
Stskeepsjeremiah_: you have a novell account/build opensuse? if so, you should see something19:19
X-FadeVDVsx_: Well, then you might have found a real bug...19:19
jeremiah_Stskeeps: I am not sure that I do.19:19
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Macernovell?19:20
Stskeepsjeremiah_: it should ask you for a signup if you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel19:20
StskeepsMacer: there'll be openid support later19:20
woglindehi19:20
Stskeeps(gsoc project)19:20
Macerlike... novell as in ipx?19:21
Stskeepsyeah, but thats kinda old novell19:21
Stskeepsnovell owns suse, remember?19:21
Macerheh19:21
woglindenovell bought suse some time ago19:21
Macerwhat was wrong with ipx/spx?19:21
woglindemacer didnt performe well?19:22
Macerwas it just that ipv4 had an easier numbering scheme?19:22
Macerwoglinde: sure it did =)19:22
jeremiah_Stskeeps: It turns out I did. :P19:23
Stskeepsjeremiah_: hehe19:23
jeremiah_The project is called Maemo Mer Devel?19:23
Stskeepsyeah, well, the path19:23
Stskeepsit's a tree structure.. no idea who came up with the :'s ;)19:24
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luke-jrMacer: protocol wars aren't won by technological advantages19:25
Stskeepsjeremiah_: anyway, what you see on that page is the builder status, after 2 days of putting in packages - no scratchbox involved for the armv5 compilation, it builds the Mer packages both for Debian and for Ubuntu, both arm and x8619:25
luke-jrthey are won all too often by popularity19:25
woglindemacer wasnt the darpa which forced the use of ipv419:25
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Stskeepsjeremiah_: the packages in there come from sub-projects, where we promoted them with a simple command: osc copypac -k Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon packagename Maemo:Mer:Devel19:25
Stskeepsto promote a package (and rebuild) in Testing repository, you can do osc copypac -k Maemo:Mer:Devel packagename Maemo:Mer:Testing19:26
Stskeepsand it'll resolve dependancies and do everything right19:26
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Macerluke-jr: i suppose so19:26
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Jeez, that is pretty amazing19:26
jeremiah_It is slow though, I search for mer and it is still searching.19:27
Macerplus i dont think ipx was well suited for a wider area19:27
Stskeepsjeremiah_: searching? odd :P19:27
Stskeepsjeremiah_: but it's week days so OBS itself is pretty busy19:27
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Maceri feel like playing quake 319:27
Maceri bet a ton of people still do =)19:28
Stskeepsjeremiah_: also, it will automatically rebuild when new versions come in, so you always know a package busting stuff19:28
Stskeepsand it will be up to date ABI wise too19:28
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woglindemacer quake 3 still had the ipx stuff?19:28
luke-jrMacer: I'm more apt to play Quake 119:28
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Stskeepsjeremiah_: lbt and ScriptRipper will hopefully do more justice to OBS presentation at the developer weekend19:28
Macerluke-jr: yah. quake 1 is still fun19:28
luke-jrMacer: familiar with the RuneQuake mod?19:28
Stskeepsjeremiah_: but i'm absolutely sold personally, it's been a breeze getting it to work19:28
Maceryou can rocket jump19:29
Macer=)19:29
jeremiah_Stskeeps: What is the goal here? To use this as a automated testbuilding server?19:29
Macerluke-jr: never played with the rune mod19:29
Stskeepsjeremiah_: goal is that it's the builder. people can build locally too if they so want19:29
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Stskeepswe have moved our builder stuff and repositories fully to OBS as part of the 0.13 sprint19:29
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MacerStskeeps: cant you make a wan based distcc?19:30
jeremiah_Stskeeps: So you don't build anything locally, you just create the package files and push it to the builder?19:30
Macer=)19:30
Stskeepsjeremiah_: correct19:30
Stskeepsjeremiah_: you -can- build locally if you so want19:30
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Very interesting.19:30
Stskeepsit can even compile ARM locally19:30
Macerlike the crypto busting app19:30
Stskeepswithout any use of scratchbox19:30
Stskeepsand it works without a hiss19:30
jeremiah_Stskeeps: I would want to, but it is nice for others not to have to jump through all the hoops.19:30
Macerwonder why nobody ever tried that19:31
jeremiah_of building locally that is19:31
Stskeepsjeremiah_: and people have their own "home" projects as well, to develop on19:31
jeremiah_Stskeeps: So you can use it like a forge?19:31
Macerwhat was the name of the app that would sit there using cpu idle time to crack crypto?19:31
Stskeepsnah, not that far, but you can use it personally as a builder before pushing to "real" projects19:31
Stskeepssuch as moving it into Devel19:31
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luke-jrMacer: that would be pretty cool19:31
luke-jrkismet + wpa_supplicant + aircrack all in one ;)19:32
Macerluke-jr: there was something that did it19:32
jeremiah_Stskeeps: That is quite useful, because a lot of the packages that get pushed to extras-devel don't build19:32
Macerwould run a client and use millions of computers and distribute for computations19:32
X-Fadejeremiah_: Huh?19:32
luke-jrMacer: eh, I don't mean that, that's boring :p19:32
Macerluke-jr: haha19:33
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jeremiah_X-Fade: Recently failed: zsync, qtmeetings,19:33
Stskeepsjeremiah_: and OBS is fully downloadable, and you can set up your own instance if you so want to19:33
luke-jrMacer: really I just want kismet+wpa_supplicant19:33
Stskeepslike obs.maemo.org :P19:33
Macerwell cracking crypto can take forever19:33
X-Fadejeremiah_: Yeah, they fail to build. But don't end up in extras-devel..19:33
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luke-jrMacer: connect to APs whenever possible, but also make wifi maps in the background19:33
jeremiah_Stskeeps: That would be good because then we could do package policy checking first, then autobuilding.19:34
luke-jrMacer: WEP cracking can take minutes19:34
Macerbut anything can be brute open with enough time and resourses19:34
Macerwep is for losers19:34
Macerhaha19:34
Stskeepsjeremiah_: anyway.. we hope to knock people's socks off with a good presentation :)19:35
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Do that!19:35
luke-jrMacer: WEP is fine, IMO, as long as i have an equivalent open19:35
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: I look forward to it!19:35
Macerno. it sucks19:36
Macer=) bbl19:36
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: So the parent project is Maemo Mer 0.13?19:38
jeremiah_Stskeeps: And the subprojects build on different arches?19:38
Stskeepsnah .. it's a tad simpler than that :)19:38
jeremiah_i.e. Beagleboard and Nokia N810?19:38
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Stskeepsjeremiah_: ok, Mer:Devel compiles towards Debian and Ubuntu repositories, and subprojects (Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon) compiles against Devel19:39
Stskeepsso, when a package compiles in MaemoCommon, we move it onto the Devel repository, and things that need to recompile recompile19:39
Stskeeps:MaemoCommon is where we work and test packages before unleashing to unwitting users19:39
Stskeepsand :Devel is like debian's "unstable"19:40
Stskeepswhen a package doesn't break everything, we promote it to Testing19:40
Stskeepsand eventually we copy Testing to a release, 0.1319:40
jeremiah_So you do a freeze like debian does?19:40
jeremiah_Hmm, cool19:41
Stskeepssortof, feature freeze, and at the moment, everything that's in Testing by 0.13, becomes Mer 0.1319:41
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build is our work in progres19:41
Stskeepss19:41
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Can you just pound on the build servers as much as you want? Can you schedule ten builds a day?19:41
Stskeepsjeremiah_: it schedules it itself19:42
jeremiah_aha19:42
Stskeepshttps://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel%3AMaemoCommon19:42
Stskeepsi just uploaded a new version of libhildon19:42
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jeremiah_The only problem I see is the proprietary bits to build on Nokia hardware.19:42
jeremiah_How do you see solving that?19:42
jeremiah_Obviously I doubt that code will get pushed to OBS19:42
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Stskeepsyea, obviously - but if there was a obs.maemo.org, or a feature to "hide" the properitary bits - since you can run your own instance, noone stops you from having a local repository with the bits19:43
Stskeepsfunny fact too - you can copy packages between OBS instances19:43
Stskeepsso from obs.maemo.org to the real OBS.19:44
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: That would be great - make the package really portable.19:45
Stskeepsand between projects, build targets, etc19:45
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Stskeepsalso, you're always sure your packages are up to date, recompiled, no lingering ABI problems, etc19:47
Stskeepsif i drop in libhildon (which i will later), it will recompile things19:47
jeremiah_Sweet19:47
Stskeepsa -lot- of potential in this stuff :P19:48
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slonopotamus_hehe19:50
slonopotamus_letz drop in glibc and see what'll happen19:51
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Stskeepsslonopotamus_: sure, - one of my ideas would be dropping in gcc with optimized flags for armv6+vfp.19:51
slonopotamus_btw19:52
slonopotamus_fbdev!19:52
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slonopotamus_it perfectly plays video, as i saw, right?19:52
slonopotamus_omapfb can be thrown out?19:52
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Stskeepssortof19:53
* slonopotamus_ lost link to Meiz xorg.conf :(19:53
Stskeepsyou need to fb_update_mode auto19:53
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, err19:53
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, 20hz?19:53
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, how it shown video so smooth in auto mode?19:54
Stskeepsno clue, but it does19:54
slonopotamus_maaaagic19:54
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, gimme link once more please?19:55
Stskeepstrac.tspre.org/meiz somewhere19:56
slonopotamus_thanks19:56
slonopotamus_i've bookmarked it :)19:57
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slonopotamus_Option"UseFBDev""true"19:59
slonopotamus_i don't understand what driver will receive it19:59
slonopotamus_http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/xorg.conf19:59
slonopotamus_no meiz online :(20:00
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VDVsxjeremiah_, did you already tried to install some apps in the sdk ?20:03
jeremiah_VDVsx: I did, but I was not in the fremantle sdk. :(20:04
jeremiah_I am moving to that now.20:04
VDVsxjeremiah_, you have the beta right ?20:05
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jeremiah_VDVsx: Yeah, it is running in a virtual machine20:07
StskeepsVDVsx: maemo-menu-select-location should be a null-op20:11
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jeremiah_VDVsx: Have you run apt-get update?20:16
jeremiah_And apt-get upgrade?20:16
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lbtwhere are the fremantle beta sources20:17
VDVsxjeremiah_, tes20:17
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VDVsx*yes20:17
jeremiah_VDVsx: Just thought I would check - I figured you might have.20:17
* timeless_mbp pokes jeremiah_ 20:18
jeremiah_lbt: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/20:18
* jeremiah_ runs and hides20:18
etrunkolcuk: you might be interested in this: http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/ingredients-meat/bacon-pops-goat-cheese-balls-with-herbs-pecans-bacon-08297420:18
etrunkoheh20:18
jeremiah_Bacon pops!20:18
lbthttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/  gives a 40420:18
RST38hPlease please please create Fremantle target for SB2 =)20:18
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jeremiah_lbt: Try the URL I sent ^^20:19
VDVsxI also notice that the program switcher gone in the beta UI20:19
lbtI did :) then I went to Highlights and "Open source packages can be found here." and clicked "here"20:19
Stskeepsinterestin20:19
Stskeepsh20:19
Stskeepshildon HIG20:19
yergalbt, it's maemo5.0beta20:20
jeremiah_lbt: The Software Development Kit is in pre-alpha20:20
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Stskeepshttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hig/html/c465.html#input-hardware20:20
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, hildon-inmate-guard?20:20
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StskeepsA two-touch happens when the user taps down with a finger and just after that, without lifting the finger, taps another position with another finger.20:21
Stskeepsinteresting20:21
lbtfound it yerga, jeremiah_ ... ta... just going to pull the source :)20:21
* VDVsx notice that hildon HIG tutorial was written by a university classmate :P20:22
slonopotamus:D20:22
yergammm, bluez has this in the changelog: "Unable to answer a waiting call with BH-903 headset"20:23
yergacould the rx-51 be linked to a phone and a headset at the same time?20:24
Stskeepsyerga: can be Internet Call though20:24
yergaStskeeps, yes maybe ;)20:24
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jeremiah_VDVsx: I am definitely getting problems too.20:24
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lbtcan the new caller send DTMF?20:26
lbtI don't think the maemo one can20:26
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VDVsxjeremiah_, but the funny thing is that the apps are actually installed, but you will got this error everytime you use apt-get20:26
Stskeepsis hildon application manager installed?20:27
VDVsxyes, at least it shows up inside the hildon-desktop :P20:27
Stskeepshmm20:28
GeneralAntillesSo, who wants to bet the RX-71 has one of these "always present" keyboards?20:28
Stskeepscheck HAM changelog if they removed maemo-select-menu-location20:28
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jeremiah_VDVsx: weird.20:28
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zapIs 5.2008.43-7 the latest Maemo version?20:29
GeneralAntilleszap, yes.20:30
mikkov_sb 64-bit installation still sucks20:30
zapno more updates since then?20:30
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zapgot a new N810, that is20:30
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GeneralAntilleszap, no, but we may push a community update in the coming months.20:31
zapwith a new kernel?20:31
* Stskeeps is so glad that libhildon is no longer under wraps.20:31
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lcukmmmmmmmm bacon thanks etrunko20:32
* lcuk can barely type20:32
etrunko:)20:32
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etrunkowatch out so your keyboard don't get wet20:33
lcukwell im just thinkinj what else i can use that bacon dip with20:33
jeremiah_lcuk: Bacon?20:34
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lcukhttp://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/ingredients-meat/bacon-pops-goat-cheese-balls-with-herbs-pecans-bacon-08297420:34
jeremiah_What about dipping huge chunks of bacon in the bacon dip?20:34
lcuketrunko passed on the excellent mouthwatering link20:34
lcukthats a damned fine idea20:34
jeremiah_Who created the libgstream-plugins-bad package?20:34
jeremiah_It won't install. :-/20:35
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CutMeOwnThroatapt-cache show libgstream-plugins-bad knows20:35
_berto_Stskeeps: now you can join us/complain/beat us in the hildon-devel mailing list ;)20:35
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VDVsxjeremiah_, I also notice a lot of visual defects in the beta sdk, I can change icons color with a mouse over :), problems with the dialogs and icons, etc...20:36
VDVsxthings get worse compared with the aplha sdk20:36
Stskeeps_berto_: oh, i'm absolutely happy about libhildon :)20:36
* VDVsx gonna fill bugs20:36
Stskeepsi've never had the slightest problem with it, and i might actually submit patches20:36
_berto_well, there are still some bugs :)20:37
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etrunkolcuk: "Extra-bacon option: If you aren't content to simply roll these in bacon, then fry an additional two strips of bacon and crumble them into the cheese mixture itself. "20:37
etrunkoperfect!20:37
Stskeeps_berto_: probably, but i meant in terms of integration / porting to Mer :P20:37
_berto_Stskeeps: ahahah, ok :)20:37
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lcuketrunko, im slightly concerned all this bacon consumption might lead to pig-flu20:38
* lcuk eats anyway20:38
etrunkohehe20:38
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jeremiah_VDVsx: Hmm - yeah, time to file some bugs against the beta20:39
jeremiah_I guess I missed the alpha, or did we go from pre-alpha to beta?20:39
Stskeepswe went from pre-alpha to pre-alpha2 to alpha to beta20:39
jeremiah_sheesh20:40
VDVsxI have to do a screencast in order to show those visual defects :)20:40
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woglindeew20:41
woglindere20:41
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Stskeepsok20:43
Stskeepswhere is osso-system-lock-l10n-public source20:44
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Stskeeps_berto_: (how come libhildon depends on that btw?)20:44
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_berto_Stskeeps: hmmm... those are translation strings20:45
Stskeepsyeah, i know that part ;) but why libhildon depends on it20:46
_berto_they should be available20:46
Stskeepsyeah, they are as deb but not source package20:46
Stskeepsi'll file a bug20:46
_berto_thanks20:46
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_berto_Stskeeps: that dependency is for one single string I think20:50
Stskeepsk20:50
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Stskeepsi'll assume they just forgot the source, just dropped libhildon into our builder, built fine (we do some minor debian/control stuff)20:51
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_berto_Stskeeps: just saw the bug report, thanks20:58
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Stskeeps_berto_: always, i prefer to have zero deltas :P20:59
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_berto_Stskeeps: obviously :)21:03
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* rmt_ yawwwns.21:10
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* lcuk gives rmt_ bacon bite to wake him up21:11
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rmt_LASAGNA!21:23
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rmt_It is truly the food of the gods.21:23
lcuk:O21:24
rmt_Or dogs, depending on who makes it.21:24
lcukheh21:24
rmt_I once had a lasagna in Rome that I wouldn't feed to any pet of mine.21:24
rmt_I didn't know at that time that Lasagna is a north Italian dish, and you're very lucky indeed if you get a good lasagna anywhere else in Italy.21:25
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timeless_mbpheh21:33
lcukhey timeless \o21:34
timeless_mbphi21:34
* timeless_mbp is trying to get msoffice.mac to not mess up21:35
* timeless_mbp is failing miserably21:35
timeless_mbpi think it decided to eat my mailbox21:35
timeless_mbpor maybe i'm confused :)21:35
lcukin some situations thats not a bad thing lol21:35
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GeneralAntillesWhy in the world do you need that?21:37
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timeless_mbpwell, i don't really21:53
timeless_mbpbut i'm trying to retire my dell21:53
timeless_mbpand it had outlook21:53
timeless_mbpso i was trying to setup entourage21:53
timeless_mbpwhich i actually had setup21:53
timeless_mbpbut office.mac has issues w/ my system, so the SP1 thing doesn't install properly :(21:54
GeneralAntillesEntourage sucks.21:55
timeless_mbppeople say that21:56
* timeless_mbp shrugs21:56
* timeless_mbp is too hungry to care21:56
timeless_mbpis there a picasa.mac?21:56
timeless_mbpooh, there is :)21:56
Jaffare21:56
GeneralAntillesWhat's wrong with Mail.app?21:56
GeneralAntillesHey, Jaffa.21:57
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timeless_mbphi Jaffa21:59
timeless_mbphow's mail.app's exchange server support? :)21:59
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GeneralAntillesDidn't they add that for Leopard?22:00
[A2K]_hi.22:00
[A2K]_how can i use user js in tear?22:00
* timeless_mbp shrugs22:00
GeneralAntillesMaybe Snow Leopard22:01
* RST38h curses Sigmatel again. 22:01
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RST38hThese guys produce(d) decent, fast, cheap chips. But why the hell should they make 'em so complicated???22:01
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Stskeepsevening qgil :)22:02
Stskeepscongratulations on the beta release22:03
* Jaffa does the slightly tipsy train spod thing again22:03
lcukJaffa, was reggie perrin good then or not22:03
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qgilhi there Stskeeps - reading the feedback on the beta release here in IRC...  :)22:07
Jaffalcuk: it started out a bit laughter-track heqavy, but by the end I liked it22:07
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qgilthanks Stskeeps - as usual my own merits are basically none22:08
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timeless_mbphey qgil22:10
Jaffaqgil:  so how long until we can run this on a non-x86 and non-Beagleboard device? ;-)s22:11
timeless_mbpJaffa: what, it doesn't work as Mer on an n810? :)22:11
GeneralAntillesqgil, gotta convince more of the people with greater merits to show up here. :D22:12
RST38hTear 0.3.1-1 > Tear 0.3-6 ?22:12
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: regarding Mer, not Beta yet, waiting on mb 4410 :P22:12
JaffaNot tall of it, no ;-p22:13
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* timeless_mbp considers setting up OSOL on this MBP in VBox22:13
GeneralAntillesModest looks really slick in that screenshot.22:13
GeneralAntillesCan't wait for somebody to put up a screencast.22:13
timeless_mbpthen i could try to do my mirroring from it ...22:14
qgilGeneralAntilles: at least you have a bunch more now at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hildon/22:14
JaffaOSOL?22:14
* Stskeeps is happy to see libhildon no longer under wraps22:14
qgiland https://garage.maemo.org/projects/modest/22:14
GeneralAntillesqgil, finally getting Hildon out is really nice.22:14
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Jaffaqgil: does modest still have internal email lists or is deev (rather than code) now completely open?22:16
Jaffas/deev/dev/22:16
infobotJaffa meant: qgil: does modest still have internal email lists or is dev (rather than code) now completely open?22:16
qgilJaffa: the Modest development happens now in that garage project commit by commit22:16
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Jaffaqgil: cool22:17
lbthi qgil22:17
qgilthey have no reasons to have internal only discussions, although they have plenty of internal bugs and they will continue dealing with those there22:17
lbtany news on Denmark sponsorship - or a timeframe?22:17
qgilJaffa: then there is also the project management communication (sprints, priorities, deadlines) that I guess will continue being private22:18
qgillbt: it has been basically about me being busy lik hell before this beta release + the Mozilla crew still not having found THE hotel to place the sponsored participants22:19
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, just a heads up, I think I'm done Thanks!-ing bug jars for now. :P22:19
GeneralAntillesWent back and hit all the old ones.22:19
sjgadsbyHa!22:19
timeless_mbpheh22:19
lbtsure - just checking that it's not about needing more info etc22:19
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GeneralAntillesSo, no more Thanks! whoring for you from me. :D22:19
sjgadsbyNo, I must have more power!22:19
GeneralAntillesYou were catching up and I really had to pick it up to regain my lead.22:20
lbtBTW Fremantle is 'uploaded' to OBS (for some definition of uploaded)22:20
qgiljeremiah_: "lbt: The Software Development Kit is in pre-alpha", what do you mean?22:20
sjgadsbyHehe.22:20
radicwhere are the configs of apache2 located?22:20
Jaffasjgadsby!22:21
qgillbt: sorry but... who are you?  :)  email address or name I can recognize from lists/blog (my head is a waste now)22:21
lbtdavid greaves22:21
qgilaahhhm, ok now I see22:21
Stskeepsqt, shopper, etc :P22:21
sjgadsbyWell, GeneralAntilles, just keep pointing people to the same old information on Fremantle, and I'll keep thanking you for doing so. That will land you two or three dozen Thanks! a day.22:22
lbtMer/OBS + Qt fingerscrolling22:22
qgilyes, yes, I know22:22
lbthehe22:22
sjgadsbyHey, Jaffa. What's up?22:22
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, it's almost too easy, isn't it? ;)22:22
Jaffasjgadsby: wonderfully laggy train wifi22:23
qgilsjgadsby: this reminds me that I was willing to do the sticky for the Maemo 5 forum but... I thouhg better to leave it to GA or someone22:23
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, I do, however want to echo Jaffa's comments in thanking you for being awesome. ;)22:23
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sjgadsbyThat's why GA's opposed to a FAQ, qgil. He wants the Thanks! for reposting the same stuff over and over.22:24
qgilsince it's not very elegant that a Nokia employee links (or omits) interesting links especulating about potential hw etc  :)22:24
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GeneralAntilleslol22:24
Jaffaqgil: good if you only link to the right stuff ;-)22:24
radicStskeeps: you are awake?22:25
Stskeepsradic: no22:25
qgiljaffa, we could always rely on the "what can we expect... threads since they contain references about any im/possible device you can build nowadays  :)22:26
Jaffaheh22:26
radicStskeeps: can you say me where i can find the configs and www folder of the apache2 port?22:26
Stskeepsradic: no idea sorry. /var/www and /etc/apache2 would be a good shot.22:26
Stskeepsqgil: free research ;)22:27
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JaffaSWhat do you realistically expect to see in th N900?" "10 hr battery life actively browsing!"22:27
qgiljeremiah_: "I guess I missed the alpha, or did we go from pre-alpha to beta?"  heh  :)22:27
timeless_mbpJaffa: 10mins :)22:27
lbthttp://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/ has a bad link (for now) to the source22:28
radicStskeeps: i thought the same22:28
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lcuki suppose nokia could get the RTG powersource up and running in time22:28
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sjgadsbyI thought they were moving to Zero Point Modules?22:29
GeneralAntillesJaffa, don't forget playing music, too!22:29
lbtI think the N900 should come with a nail file22:29
timeless_mbpsjgadsby: star gates are expensive to run...22:29
lcukpost it in the thread then!22:29
timeless_mbpand then there's the explosive tendencies of naquada22:29
lcukzero point might be good for a gravity gun22:29
lbtto sharpen fingernails to a point so you don't need a stylus...22:29
* Jaffa kree22:29
lcukbut not really practical22:30
lcuklbt, im SERIOUSLY thinking about getting a stylus attachment22:30
Stskeepslcuk: for your finger?22:30
lcukyeah :D22:30
GeneralAntilleslbt, Nokia should offer free finger surgery.22:30
lbtI told him... he needs a 6mm hex socket22:31
lcukit might make me feel a bit better lol22:31
qgillbt: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/ fixd and thanks22:31
RST38hlcuk: but won't a little trackball be better?22:31
lcuk\o hey qgil, can i offer you some more garlic?22:31
qgilI'm well served today, thanks22:31
lcukheh22:31
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qgilalright, and now to answer a couple of things in ITt22:32
timeless_mbplcuk: got some nice wooden stakes?22:32
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qgilI have seen that expectation that the jump from beta to final could be as short as from alpha to beta22:32
lcukno, but having the stitches felt like bamboo torture22:32
woglindebeta as out?22:32
lbtheh fremantle build-essential failed to build....22:32
woglindeis22:32
JaffaGeneralAntilles: : and counsellling for all the people distraught at the changes to "their" pplatform22:33
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RST38hqgil: Fremantle target for MaemoSDK+. Please.22:33
Stskeepsi thought there was one?22:34
RST38hOn the other hand, it won't be of much use if QEMU does not run properly =(22:34
RST38hSts: Not according to MaemoSDK+ site22:34
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I can't help but imagine that most of it is kneejerk irrationality.22:34
GeneralAntillesI experienced a bit of it myself, so I'm thinking it should pass. ;)22:34
suihkulokkiRST38h: the latest SDK+ should have much improved qemu22:34
woglindesuihkulokki it is backported to sb1 too22:35
RST38hsuihkulokki: Fremantle notes say that developers should use x86 target and avoid armel because qemu is still broken22:35
RST38hsuihkulokki: So, I guess it is real hardware or bust.22:36
qgilRST38h: yes, it should come - if you want to lobby you can do it at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-sdk/  :)22:36
timeless_mbpRST38h: we just got a new qemu drop internally last week iirc22:36
qgilsuihkulokki can forward too22:36
timeless_mbpi'm not sure if there's an equivalent public sbox drop22:36
timeless_mbpbut i'd assume there is/was/will be22:37
qgilany thanks about qemu can be directed to suihkulokki22:37
RST38hqgil: I already wrote to Jukka Pekka22:37
RST38hqgil: Hope he will put in a word in favor of this22:38
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suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: already in public scratchbox.org and Maemo SDK+ drop :)22:38
qgilRST38h: it should come, like the beagle, the Qt... it's just that we are releasing almost as soon as we can without waiting much for the others22:38
timeless_mbpoh good :)22:38
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qgilnow for the next releases there will be more bugfixs and incremental improvements than anything else, so we can wait a bit more to sync everything on a same day22:39
RST38hqgil: is there some reason why status area and the task switcher are still not there, btw?22:39
suihkulokkiRST38h: well the problem is that people want to do silly things like us scratchbox as a system simulator22:40
RST38hsuihkulokki: People don't have much of a choice I guess... :)22:40
suihkulokkiRST38h: system qemu :)22:40
lbtqgil: any thoughts on native fingerscrolling in Qt for fremantle?22:41
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RST38hsuihkulokki: actually platform vs. application mode simulation is the old argument22:41
lbtdid you see the youtube vid?22:41
qgilRST38h: yes, there is. task switcher is considered a relevant end user feature and it's being left for later as it doesn't provide anything relevant to developers22:41
RST38hsuihkulokki: with application mode people usually losing it, in most cases )22:41
RST38hqgil: Ah22:42
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qgilRST38h: status area *could* be out in a next beta release, it's about looking a bit more to it.22:42
qgilRST38h: developers can develop status area plugins, so they need it in the sdk to check and test22:42
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GeneralAntillesqgil, we need the status area for Advanced Backlight. ;)22:44
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: oh, that's real important w/o hardware22:44
qgilGeneralAntilles: I see, but what features would be missing in Fremantle?22:44
timeless_mbpqgil: backlight lives in the status bar22:44
timeless_mbpw/o it, you can't do anything22:44
qgiltimeless_mbp: I know22:44
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qgilI'm asking what features provided by AB are missing in the Fremantle stock OS22:45
timeless_mbpbut seriously, i don't see the point in worrying about backlight w/o hardware22:45
timeless_mbptechnically iirc backlight can control audio too22:45
timeless_mbpwhich could be testable22:45
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timeless_mbpiirc the audio stack has changed for fremantle22:45
DavidePalmHey how do I purge a program?   sudo apt-get purge "program"22:45
DavidePalm?22:45
GeneralAntillesqgil, having not seen any Fremantle statusbar applets, I can't say.22:45
timeless_mbpso it's probably justifiable22:45
qgilGeneralAntilles: do you have anywhere the list of features provided by AB?22:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: can you reply to reggie with .org? This connection's too laggy, and all I've got is modest22:46
GeneralAntillesqgil, at the very least, I doubt very much you guys are providing a combined backlight/volume applets.22:46
GeneralAntillesqgil, the Downloads etry?22:46
GeneralAntilless/etry/entry/22:46
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: qgil, the Downloads entry?22:46
DavidePalmWhat's the syntax to purge a program?  why is sudo apt-get purge "program" wrong?22:47
GeneralAntillesFiner grained backlight control, a combined applet, eventually a improved control panels for both.22:47
GeneralAntillesJaffa, in a bit.22:47
JaffaDavidePalm: thing of dpkg --purge ?22:47
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ta - I should be home in quarter of an hour or so22:48
DavidePalmJaffa idk does that work too? not very good at linux22:48
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DavidePalmJaffa I was just looking at the apt-get options and "purge" seemed like what I needed, but I can't make it work22:48
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qgilfFiner grained backlight control is expected to be in the sales release22:48
rowayda333hi22:48
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aquatixDavidePalm: apt-get remove --purge <package>22:48
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qgila combined applet, well the backlight is still in the control panel - not sure how essential that is22:49
DavidePalmaquatix thanks22:49
GeneralAntillesqgil, fine grained enough to support all available levels of backlight?22:49
rowayda333 áé ÍÏ åÕÑé22:50
qgilGeneralAntilles: I would need to check, but it should go from very very dark to vry very bright with the same widget used by the volume22:50
rowayda333egyptian22:50
qgilGeneralAntilles: as said in the FIXED enhancement request, btw22:50
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RST38hqgil: Here is a rather weird question;22:51
Myrttioh noes22:51
GeneralAntillesqgil, anyway, put the status bar area in the next beta or don't I don't have the energy or free brain power at the moment to try to play the justtification game. . . .22:51
Myrttimy bf wants to install scratchbox22:51
Myrttithis'll be painful22:51
Myrtti"come and help me install it"22:51
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RST38hqgil: Will the new OS version / hardware return valid pressure values for the stylus?22:51
StskeepsMyrtti: talk him out of it!22:51
lcukMyrtti, its quite simple, ive even managed it a few times now!22:51
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RST38hMyrtti: Install SB2!22:52
qgilGeneralAntilles: yes, sure. I only want to say that a) putting it or not doesn't depend of BA and b) I think Fremantle actually has taken your feedback and provides to users what you were offering before - no intent of argue now  :)22:52
lbtqgil: any thoughts on how I get my native fingerscrolling in Qt for fremantle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TxAIScXQvk22:52
qgilRST38h: it is indeed a weird question  :)22:52
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qgilRST38h: same or better "pressure values for the stylus", I guess22:53
* suihkulokki thinks we should provide MER and {ubuntu,debian}-armel targets in maemo-sdk+ too22:53
RST38hqgil: The basic reasn is that there are a few applications using the pressure value and some people who would like to use tablets for painting22:53
suihkulokkinow that we don't depend on sb1, it should be feasible22:53
RST38hqgil: but the values returned by n8x0 devices are both somewhat bogus and uneven across the sensor22:53
qgillbt: for Qt stuff you better ask the Qt4Maemo project since I have no idea myself22:54
GeneralAntillesqgil, you'll forgive me if I'm dubious about Nokia providing what we want. ;)22:54
qgilGeneralAntilles: now it's me the one tired to discuss  ;)22:54
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RST38hsuihkulokki: Either that, or our friend Stskeeps will just go with OpenEmbedded, screwing SB completely22:54
Stskeeps..22:54
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StskeepsOE?22:54
Stskeepsare you insane?22:54
Stskeeps:P22:54
RST38hSts: Is it worse? =)22:55
GeneralAntillesqgil, anyway, there are a lot of planned advanced backlight features that I know Nokia isn't implementing in their stock applets.22:55
StskeepsRST38h: we have gone with OBS, :P22:55
* RST38h uses OE for the Sigmatel stuff, it seems ok22:55
qgilRST38h: if you point to the bug(s) you are referring to I can tell more (there are different issues in Diablo and I'm not sure which one worries you now)22:55
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GeneralAntillesqgil, and rm_you is just about to have free time to develop them again.22:55
RST38hqgil: I do not think there is a bug report for the stylus pressure22:55
qgilGeneralAntilles: sure, as said it is also our interest to activate the status area in the sdk so we can allow developers like rm_you do whatever please them22:56
RST38hqgil: And it IS partially a hardware issue having to do with displays being slightly bent when mounted into n8x0s22:56
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lcukRST38h, pressure is available and readable on 8x0?22:56
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RST38hqgil: The verify that, turn your tablet at ~30o angle to a fluorescent light and look at the screen22:56
* lcuk makes use of it22:56
RST38hlcuk: yep22:56
qgilRST38h: I recall one that could be reproduced in Diablo by drawing 1001 traces with the Sketch in certain way, I resoved as FIXED in Fremantle since I couldn't reproduce what I reproduced in Diablo/N81022:57
RST38hlcuk: except that it isn't reliable22:57
RST38hqgil: This sounds more like a problem with Sketch :)22:57
johnxRST38h, think the reliability is a hardware or software thing?22:57
qgilRST38h: no, it was a problem detecting pressure of the stylus22:58
lcukif you can reliably press with the same pressure anywhere repeatadly on any touchscreen then ill give you a beer22:58
qgilsjgadsby maybe recalls the bug22:58
RST38hjohnx: Depends, but I usually make effort to make my software 100% reliable22:58
RST38hqgil: Oh22:58
johnxRST38h, that's not the Unix way :)22:58
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RST38hlcuk: Well, touchpads somehow manage it :)22:58
sjgadsbyqgil: It sounds familiar, but I'd have to search for it.22:58
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RST38hjohnx: I worked for an ATC software vendor.22:59
lcukRST38h, i did notice that the threshhold on my old 810 was screwed ..22:59
RST38hjohnx: Mistakes can be VERY costly in ATC22:59
RST38hlcuk: you are not alone22:59
lcukthe replacement from the summit that hadnt been leaned on worked perfectly (it was when i did the multitouch thing months ago22:59
johnxand I've noticed my touchscreen has been getting less sensitive over the years23:00
RST38his the right side less sensitive than the left side?23:00
lcukisnt that expected?23:00
lcukno, mine is left side where i stroke more23:00
lcukcentre portion23:00
RST38hno idea, not familiar enough with the technology23:00
johnxyeah, but I really have to mash on it now, and drag-to-scroll tends to get interpreted as a series of clicks23:00
qgilRST38h: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=284423:00
johnxRST38h, I have a deadish area on the left side of my n80023:01
lcukjohnx, might be possible to adjust the threshhold x11 uses to convert from the raw values23:01
RST38hqgil: That's not it, only deals with coordinates23:01
lcuki dont know enough to know tho23:01
johnxprobably possible to tweak it at the tslib level, under X11 actually ...23:01
RST38hqgil: But I can confirm that THIS bug also occurs to me23:02
dantonicHey I'm following the maemo.org guide to partition to install boot on the memory card.  It talks about a 1 GB SD Card.  I have  a 2GB SD, would it be more beneficial to make the first partition bigger than 480MB?  Is the VFAT Partition the one where the system will boot from?23:02
lcukRST38h, to find out more read up on touchscreens in nintendo DSs - they commonly die (much worse than nokias from what i know) kids are harder on them23:02
lcukyes johnx23:02
lcukbut x11 uses a fixed threshold23:02
RST38hlcuk: My kid has a generic GBA23:02
lcukfrom the reporting in tslib23:02
RST38hlcuk: no touch screen, and I routinely buy used games for $5 apiece when in US23:03
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RST38hlcuk: But it is almost unimaginable what torture GBA can survive23:03
GeneralAntillesdantonic, not it does not boot from VFAT.23:03
johnxdantonic, the filesystem will be on the ext2/3 part. the vfat is just for storing files and can be accessed by a computer when plugged into the tablet by usb23:03
GeneralAntillesqgil, really, the most important part, adv-backlight is open source.23:04
qgilGeneralAntilles: ah yes23:05
lcukand community built :D23:05
qgilbenny1967 "Looks a lot like S60." - I guess we have different experiences with S60 (or Maemo 5)23:06
GeneralAntillesqwerty12 needs to compile XChat etc so these people will quiet down.23:06
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konttori_what? beta desktop is still not the full version?23:12
lcukany reason why scp would hang when starting a copy?23:12
konttori_is there any diff to alpha version?23:12
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, fun, right?23:12
GeneralAntillesModest is in there now.23:12
GeneralAntillesAPIs are frozen23:12
* konttori_ still cannot release theme maker23:12
konttori_if desktop is not full23:12
GeneralAntillesWe seem to be simultaneously ahead of and behind the roadmap.23:13
RST38hlcuk: connection problem23:13
lcukssh works flawlessly23:13
konttori_not that them maker would be really needed until the device is in the hands of people23:14
lcukim asking it to copy a 60mb folder23:14
RST38hlcuk: It may be scanning files23:14
RST38hfilenames really23:14
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, I know the synthesize.us people would appreciate it, though.23:14
konttori_hmm... but they propably are willing to wait until getting the full stuff.23:15
konttori_anyway, great that the beta is out!23:16
* konttori_ goes to bed23:16
dantonicdoes anyone here boot from the flashcard?23:16
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dantonicGeneralAntilles I know you do right?23:16
GeneralAntillesdantonic, yeah.23:17
dantonicGeneralAntilles when partitioning, is the VFAT partition the one that it will boot from?  and what's the linux_83 partition?23:17
GeneralAntillesNo, as said by johnx and myself earlier, VFAT is for filestorage and swap.23:17
johnxdantonic, it boots from the linux partition23:18
GeneralAntillesIt boots from the EXT2/3 partition (linux_83)23:18
dantonicoh sorry msust have missed it23:18
dantonicfor some reason it didnt highlight23:18
dantonicok23:18
dantonicI apologize23:18
johnxno problem :)23:18
johnxhow is the beta out and there's not announcement on planet maemo?23:19
GeneralAntillesAnnouncement is in announcements23:19
dantonicso If I'm partitioning a 2gb card.. should I double it?  do I need double the swap?  or probably can go with still 480mb for the swap?23:19
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GeneralAntillesSwap really shouldn't be more than RAM23:19
dantonicso 480 is already too much? how much ram we got in these guys anyway I forget23:20
GeneralAntilles128MB23:21
GeneralAntillesWell, 480MB gives you some room for filestorage23:21
GeneralAntillesAre you planning on attaching this tablet to a Windows or OS X machine?23:21
dantonicah ok... well I have an 8GB external card23:21
dantonicGeneralAntilles what do you mean by "attaching"?23:22
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GeneralAntillesdantonic, connecting with USB23:27
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dantonicGeneralAntilles, yes to windows23:34
dantonicHey after a flash does restoring settings and e-mail does only that?  I kinda want a fresh install, but would be nice to just let it configure my internet and e-mail settings automatically.23:38
dantonicwill it clutter the tablet up with any of the previous stuff other than just the basic settings?23:39
johnxit depends on what you choose to restore, IIRC23:39
dantonicI chose just settings and e-mail23:39
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dantonicjohnx23:39
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zapmmmh... anybody knows why the bash package was removed from Extras?23:43
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qgilIt will be interesting to see how many beta sdk related news feature a maemo.org logo  :)  http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/04/maemo-5-sdk-is-now-in-beta-get-developing23:50
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X-Fadeqgil: Is there even a Maemo logo ;)23:50
GeneralAntillesYeah, you need some kind of graphic to use.23:51
GeneralAntillesAnnouncements are on maemo.org, too.23:52
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X-FadeThe same problem you have when we want people to find us in google. People search for Nokia N810, we don't talk about N810 at all ;)23:52
timeless_mbpus = ?23:53
GeneralAntillesIt'd probably improve pretty quickly if Nokia put out some kind of Maemo logo.23:53
X-FadeIt seems we need to mix in a little of Nokia in maemo.org and a bit of maemo.org in Nokia's marketing ;)23:53
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: maemo.org, sorry.23:53
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, you see the wiki patch?23:54
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GeneralAntilleslol, the capitalization on the <h1> here is pretty classy: http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/23:54
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No, just dropping by. Couch surfing ;)23:55
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Heh, that is CSS capitalization ;)23:55
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, you know you're not allowed to be in here and not be pestered by work, right? :P23:55
dantonichey when I do apt-get install e2fsprogs23:55
dantonicI get package not available23:56
X-Fade /ignore GeneralAntilles23:56
X-FadeOh, did I say that out loud? :)23:56
* GeneralAntilles sends in the clones.23:56
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dantoniclol GeneralAntilles23:56
qgilin that UMPCportal article: "More info about Freeemantle" - first time I see it spelled with 3 "e", influence of certain UMPC?23:56
X-FadeBtw, did people notice the HIG? http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hig/html/index.html23:58
johnxOMG, a public HIG23:58
X-FadeOr HHIG in this case ;)23:58
johnxdid it leak or something?23:58
GeneralAntillesI say we should just go with the flow and let people use as many e's as they're comfortable with.23:58
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johnxfreeeeeeeeeeeemntl!23:59
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