IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-04-29

GeneralAntillesThe a, however, is an absolute requirement, johnx. :P00:00
X-FadeHeh web 2.0 branding ;)00:00
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I was just helping confused google searchers find the IRC logs :)00:00
GeneralAntillesWe should start planning for a maemo.org April Fool's now. ;)00:00
qgiljohnx: actually this is a good idea - someone could spread the rumor that the HIG is a leak of internal information, so all developers will look at them  :)00:00
lbthey X-Fade : https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Albt%3AFremantle%3ABeta00:01
GeneralAntillesHa!00:02
qgilthey will be nicer when they are full of screenshots and graphical examples, though00:02
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qgillbt: what does that link mean, asks this tired brain today00:02
GeneralAntillesI really want a maemo.org cloak00:02
johnxqgil, I'll leak it to engadget whenever you give the word :>00:02
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, Freenode hasn't contacted you yet, have they?00:02
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Nope, black hole.00:02
GeneralAntillesBleh00:02
lbtqgil: it's the OBS upload of Fremantle free stuff - not started a compile yet00:02
X-Fadelbt: Something for me to look at tomorrow.00:02
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lbtbut Stskeeps just pulled some into Mer... we'll have it out there RSN ;)00:02
X-FadeI haven't been able to update the autobuilder yet, because I haven't been able to get the nokia-binaries repo yet ;)00:03
qgillbt: and this is useful for...00:03
X-FadeSo that is also something for tomorrow ;)00:03
lbtOBS or the Fremantle upload?00:03
qgilthe Fremantle upload00:03
lbtStskeeps has already used the Fremantle libhildon in Mer00:03
lbtabout 10 mins ago00:03
Stskeepsnah, 5 hours ago :P00:04
lbtyeah 5 mins was : copied Fremantle:Beta osso-af-utils to Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon00:04
Stskeeps;)00:04
qgillbt: ah ok, so you compile those sources for Mer?00:04
lbtyes00:04
Stskeepsqgil: we're also experimenting with OBS and Maemo as it is, i think :)00:05
lbtand if we find any build/compile issues we can feed them back00:05
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qgilcool, thanks00:05
lbteg hardcoded scratchbox00:05
lbtbad build-depends00:05
X-Fadelbt: Next step is to fix these bugs yourself in the git repo :D00:05
lbtthat kind of thing.... OBS builds from raw disk up every time...00:05
qgillast words before I go to sleep: lbt tomorrow I will look to the queue of sponsorship requests to the Danish Weekend00:06
qgilI hope you get more Mer contributors there!00:06
StskeepsX-Fade: next step is the large amount of patches to send in :P00:06
lbtgosh, a public git repo... great idea00:06
qgilit should be one of the main concrete and tangible support action we do for the Mer project00:06
lbtqgil: thanks - appreciated00:06
X-Fadelbt: Hildon and modest are now in public git, so start there ;)00:06
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Stskeeps*nod* and we're grateful, - it's just difficult to get people to show up sometimes :)00:06
X-Fadeqemu also got bit improvements in this beta btw.00:07
lbtX-Fade: I'm nagging GnutOnMobile to include my fingerscrolling for Fremantle00:07
X-Fade*big00:07
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qgilthe Ui guy, what's his name...00:07
lcukwazd00:07
Stskeepshe can't leave russia00:07
qgilthat one, is he coming?00:07
Stskeepselse i'm sure he would :P00:07
lcukvlads friend00:07
Stskeeps(military stuff..)00:07
lcukhe has problems bigger than vlads00:07
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qgilStskeeps: ahm00:07
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lcukwebcast him00:08
qgiland that long list of "Thanks to" in your releases?00:08
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Stskeepspeople making big or small contributions - we do have a fair bit of people and i've advertised a lot00:08
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GeneralAntillesWe're sending lardman to talk qwerty12's parents into letting him out of the house. ;000:09
GeneralAntilless/0/)/00:09
lcukhahah00:09
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: We're sending lardman to talk qwerty12's parents into letting him out of the house. ;)00:09
lbtWhat about ScriptRipper?00:09
qgilanyway, I won't insist more - there is a budget and will be spent00:09
zapAnyone here kind enough to share the latest initrd.jffs2 with bootmenu installed? :)00:09
Stskeepslbt: think he should just apply and let's see what happens00:09
Stskeepsbbl00:09
lbtl8r00:10
* Stskeeps needs sleep before linear algebra classes :(00:10
X-Fadegtssyat.00:10
qgilme too, without the algebra00:10
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lcukgnite qgil \o00:10
qgilgood night!00:10
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ScriptRipperqgil good night00:11
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lcukshout louder ScriptRipper lol00:11
ScriptRipperlcuk i was too latew00:11
lbtScriptRipper: you applied for Danish weekend at all?00:12
lbtI owe you a beer (or...) at least!00:12
johnxat this point I think I might possibly be able to attend. need to get a request in before qgil looks at them tomorrow :>00:13
ScriptRipperlbt: not yet00:14
ScriptRipperlbt: what must i do?00:14
lbtlooking00:15
lbthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Hackfest_Copenhagen_0900:15
lbthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend00:15
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: ping00:19
Stskeepsfor mer follow instructions in http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=278371&postcount=700:19
timeless_mbpwhy is wiki.maemo.org sporting beta-free branding while maemo.org sports a beta?00:19
LiraNunaI got an N810 WiMAX \o/00:19
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timeless_mbpLiraNuna: wow, where, how, how much?00:20
keesjLiraNuna: give it to me now!00:20
LiraNuna:D00:20
LiraNunait's from some shop00:20
LiraNunatook shitload of time to deliver00:20
timeless_mbphow much did you pay?00:20
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LiraNuna450$00:20
keesjhmm00:21
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LiraNunahttp://www.cell2get.com/ < I'm warning, if you DO want it, it'll take a lot of time to delive00:21
ShadowJKerk :)00:21
LiraNunaI bought this april 2nd00:21
LiraNunaI got it now00:21
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xntkonichiwa everyone!00:21
* xnt clicks00:21
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ShadowJKseems like a high premium for wimax :)00:21
timeless_mbpLiraNuna: who's offering wimax near you and what's the cost for the data plan?00:22
LiraNunatimeless, I'm in SF, it'll have wimax in the ner future00:22
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LiraNunaI got WiMAX to future proof it00:23
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keesjamterdam has wimax now but I did not try it yet00:23
ShadowJKheh00:23
xntliranuna: :(00:23
* xnt wants wimax00:23
xntin his area00:23
xntnyc00:23
xnt* new city00:23
xnt:P00:23
ShadowJKthere's wimax where I live, but not mobile wimax and not on n810W's frequency band :)00:24
johnxsame here :/00:24
xntham radio license + backyard radio tower/repeater + n180 = free wimax! :)00:25
keesjare there different wimaxes bugger00:26
ShadowJKAmusingly I pay less for unmetered 2mbit/s 3G/Edge than I pay for non-mobile wimax :)00:26
LiraNunadamn the black color is just so sexy00:26
timeless_mbpShadowJK: how many different wimax bands are there??00:29
GeneralAntillesLots00:29
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, this has some numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deployed_WiMAX_networks00:30
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* timeless_mbp boggles @ 802.16 d v. e00:31
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, did you file a bug about the wiki?00:33
timeless_mbpno00:33
timeless_mbpi'm about to go home00:33
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GeneralAntillesOK, I'll do that.00:33
timeless_mbpplease file00:33
timeless_mbpi wouldn't even know which is right/wrong :)00:33
timeless_mbpbesides, sp3000 pointed to the non beta thing :) -- but he left for home already00:33
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LiraNunaskype can do video right?00:39
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johnxLiraNuna, not on the tablets00:43
till-not on nit00:43
LiraNunacrap00:44
LiraNunait has a cam ;(00:44
johnxyup, but skype won't support it00:45
johnxgizmo video works pretty well00:45
LiraNunaoh00:45
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johnxrm_you|, hey :D00:45
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johnxLiraNuna, skype's video codec is really heavy and they don't feel like optimizing it, it seems00:46
LiraNunahaha00:46
lcukis it possible to ssh directly into a scratchbox session or do i need to login after connecting?00:46
till-very green on my n80000:46
till-@gizmo00:46
lbtlcuk: is your scratchbox running sshd?00:46
rm_you|'lo johnx00:46
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lcukdunno lbt, assume no right now00:47
rm_you|lcuk is scratchboxing? roflcopter00:47
johnxlcuk, you should use screen :)00:47
lcukdont confuse me even more :|00:47
lcukthe laptop will be up and down lol00:47
lbtactually _dl9pf_ just ran OBS on an N810... worked first time00:48
* rm_you| whips out his roflcopter and flies around00:48
lcukrm_you, http://liqbase.net/fingerfriendly.jpg00:48
rm_you|ooo00:48
rm_you|so what is that supposed to be>00:48
rm_you|?00:48
rm_you|oh00:48
rm_you|ack!00:48
lcukbet you cant guess how or where that happened00:48
rm_you|n800ing? :P00:48
lbthe bit his fingernails00:49
lcukheh00:49
rm_you|typing too vigerously on the virtual keyboard?00:49
lbtaccidentally got bacon-fat on his finger00:49
ShadowJKlcuk: file a "need pressure calibration for x11 click threshold" bug? include that grid with blackhole you get if you draw with uniform pressure across the screen?00:49
lcukheh once it stops hurting and i can type properly again im, thin,ing of adding a stylus00:49
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lcukShadowJK, why should i file a bug, i use pressure sensitive reading anyway and dont notice00:50
ShadowJKoh00:50
johnxjeez. was that seriously from tablet use? O_o;00:50
lcukits only in gtk/x11 stuff that the threshhold is wrong00:50
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lcukheh johnx, it was a nokia ovi00:51
johnxaaah00:51
johnxgotcha00:51
johnxwait, is that your finger or not?00:51
lcukyes00:51
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lcuki cant drive or move most of my hand00:51
wazdso, hows the new SDK?)00:51
johnxwell, hope that heals up quick lcuk.00:52
johnxI'm off for now00:52
lcukso dp i00:52
lcuko00:52
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ShadowJKRst38h should file it then :)00:52
lcuksince he noticed it00:52
lcuktho the way quim said it was tested00:53
lcukie there was a bug filed already00:53
lcuklbt, can i just install sshd into scratchbox then?00:53
lbtyou _can_00:53
lcukand does scratchbox have its own ip?00:53
lbtdunno about should00:53
lbtno00:54
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lcukok, so if i use normal ssh on the lappy00:54
lbtit'll conflict if you already run sshd00:54
johnxyup00:54
ShadowJKit would be awesome if you could calibrate sensitive are of screen to be as insensitive as the least sensitive are of the screen, so that it takes equal pressure across entire screen to register as click00:54
lcukcan i run a script on login00:54
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johnxyou should be able to00:54
lcukShadowJK, give the tablet a pair of glasses00:54
johnxah, you mean when you login to ssh?00:54
lcukyeah00:54
ShadowJKwhat does glasses for tablet do...00:55
timeless_mbplcuk: ssh -t host scratchbox00:55
lbtwhat do you want to do lcuk?00:55
timeless_mbpyou can simplify that w/ a script 'scratchbox' on the host :)00:55
lbtsimply be in sb when you login?00:55
johnxI think having a script that runs at login all the time, might potentially cause problems00:56
lcukheh yeah00:56
lbtwot johnx said00:56
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lcuktimeless, thanks00:56
timeless_mbpnote that you can run sshd on an alternate port, but it's really not worth it00:56
locutusif its on a internal lan, add a iface for the scratchbox to have its sshd on?00:56
johnxyou should really just use screen. it's pretty simple00:56
lcukno agreed, just confuses an already confusing situation00:56
lcukits not johnx00:57
locutus(alias that is)00:57
timeless_mbpyou can get clever w/ a .ssh/config file which offers 'scratchbox' and commands and stuff00:57
lcukthe laptop goes up and down00:57
timeless_mbpbut yeah, personally, i'd probably use screen00:57
timeless_mbpin fact, i'm pretty sure that's what i actually do use :)00:57
lcukpersonally i'd use native building but with only an sdk its a bit hard00:58
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* lcuk understands simple direct on the metal working00:58
* johnx understands the limitations of that :)00:59
johnxpainfully understands ...00:59
lcukyeah but its not a problem for the stuffs i wanna build00:59
johnxyeah, to each his own00:59
lcukheh00:59
johnxbut screen would still help you00:59
johnxscreen = best thing since sliced bread01:00
rm_you|sliced bacon? :P01:00
lcukmmmmmm01:00
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VDVsx_lcuk, I know you like my crappy screencasts, so here another one: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=22501:08
VDVsx_:P01:08
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VDVsx_special attention to the icon colors around 1:15 :P01:09
GeneralAntillesWoo! Crappy screencasts!01:10
* johnx likes the mer app menus better :>01:10
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx_, is Modest in there?01:12
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, no01:12
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* timeless_mbp notes that some of the things VDVsx is showing off are not the way they will be in final01:12
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GeneralAntillesNokia really needs to invest some time in helping their artwork team figure out that the screen resolution is 800x48001:13
johnxs/:>/than the current beta/01:13
GeneralAntillesScaled up desktop images are just plain amateur.01:13
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: eh?01:13
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GeneralAntillesThe godawful pixelated desktop image.01:14
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VDVsxtimeless_mbp, I expect so, I discovered a lot of visual defects in this release01:14
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so... the squiggly thing01:14
timeless_mbpfor one, it's gone in recent versions01:15
timeless_mbphowever i don't recall it being pixelated on device01:15
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timeless_mbpare you sure VDVsx was running at true aspect ratio?01:15
GeneralAntillesHigher DPI probably hides or something.01:15
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, neither here, is youtube sucking up the video01:15
GeneralAntillesAnyway, it doesn't show well in any of the screenshots or screencasts I've seen.01:15
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GeneralAntilleshttp://static.maemo.org/static/m/Maemo5_alpha__SDK_Desktop.png01:16
timeless_mbphrm01:16
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GeneralAntilles16bpp is also bad with gradients.01:16
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, yap, you are right is a little bit pixelated here too01:20
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VDVsxbut the coolest feature is around 1:16, anybody noticed that  one? :P01:23
lcukanyone know if maemo mapper is broken for google?01:23
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, what, the desktop shortcuts?01:24
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, look at the icons color in maemopad01:25
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VDVsxit change with a mouse over, lolol01:25
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GeneralAntilleslol01:26
GeneralAntillesNice01:26
dsampleHi, I've just installed Scratchbox on Ubuntu 8.10 but Xephyr gives an error about DESKTOP when it starts up01:26
Myrtti:-)01:27
dsampleXoo starts, but using 'select device' to choose N800 doesn't actually change to the N800 simulator, any idea what could be wrong?01:27
VDVsxnokia guys probably noticed the visual bugs, but anyway I will made some annotations in the video tomorrow to fill a bug report, just to prevent :P01:27
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LiraNunaso it supports USB OTG, but how do I see stuff01:30
DavideAny idea why I cannot install e2fsprogs01:30
Davidetrying to boot from flash?01:30
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dsamplethe Xephyr error I get is "Xephyr cannot open host display. Is DISPLAY set?"01:30
* GeneralAntilles attempts to channel Davide's error message.01:30
GeneralAntillesDavide, no.01:30
GeneralAntillesDavide, what's the problem? ;)01:30
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Davideheh well I get Package e2fsprogs is not available, but is referred to by another package.  This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source However the following packages replace it:  libuuidl01:31
DavideE: Package e2fsprogs has no installation candidate01:32
DavideI've made sure repository.maemo.org is enabled01:32
Davideand ran apt-get update01:33
Davideit's a fresh install on the tablet too.. Maybe I shouldn't have restored my settings?01:33
Davideidk01:33
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel.01:34
GeneralAntilles~extras01:34
infobotextras is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras01:34
torkianohello all, I follow this instructions but when I execute sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta.sh –u torkiano -F01:34
torkianoE: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.01:34
Davidei'll try ty01:34
torkiano¿?¿?01:34
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DavideGeneralAntilles I just reflashed my drive, and I had Easy debian installed previously on my external card.  How do I get rid of that previous easy deb stuff on my external card and gain that space back?01:36
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DavideDo I have to format?01:37
johnxthat would probably be the easiest way01:37
Davide:(01:37
Davideok01:37
johnxhmm? is there a reason you want to avoid that?01:38
johnxyou can just manually delete it01:38
Davidegot lots of stuff on it I'll have to back it up to my desktop I guess01:38
Davideno biggie01:38
Davidehad hoped there was an easier way :)01:38
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Davidejohnx if I install easy debian again... and select that card again... will it re-use or write over that previous easy deb instalation? or create a new instance of it?01:39
Davidethank you GeneralAntilles it was in Extras Devel! it works!01:40
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johnxI don't know01:41
johnxsorry, I don't use easy debian01:41
lcukGeneralAntilles, 24hours connected to my router :O (idling, but still!)01:41
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you bought a freaking router finally?01:42
lcukyeah01:42
GeneralAntilleslol01:42
GeneralAntillesYou should get about 3-4 days idle on WiFi01:42
lcukneeds must, was getting packet loss with adhoc and more than a couple of devices01:43
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GeneralAntillesYou get something you  can put Tomato on?01:43
Myrttiwoo01:44
GeneralAntillesCan we promote e2fsprogs yet?01:44
lcukheh gan, no i didnt like setting this one up - i still have an odd connection path01:45
Myrttitshih, a router? ;-)01:45
lbtlcuk: you must do a wiki on how you do adhoc - I wanted to link to my laptop when I was out01:46
lbtneeds a section on doing it under Ubuntu9.04 too01:46
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lbtand, I also read that tethering Nit to laptop was more power-efficient if you used bluetooth01:46
Davideah johnx check it out... when I attach the tablet through usb to my desktop.. a file shows up  debian-final.img.ext2 in my removable card.  I'm just gonna delete that I guess that should work no?01:47
johnxyeah01:47
Davidejohnx and it's 1.2gb01:47
lcuklbt, depends on how much data is transfered01:47
Davideso that's the image01:47
Davide:)01:47
johnxyeah, I would say so01:47
lcukand adhoc was as easy as infrastructure01:47
lbtoh- maybe it was the ubuntu making it hard... I had no internet at the time01:48
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lcukno thats how i used it01:48
lcukit didnt matter01:49
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* GeneralAntilles is undergoing withdrawal from his music library.01:49
lcukwhen i took multidevices out they always just found each other and i could ssh between em01:49
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Davideso when is the next tablet coming out?! :D !! who's getting a Pandora?01:50
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dsampleJust installed SDK but the simulator's not doing much apart from the desktop (no options, etc do anything), could someone look at this? http://pastebin.com/me93ff4501:50
lbtmeh - I've upped to 9.04 on the laptop so I'll try it again sometime01:50
luke-jr_should bootmenu allow different kernels for different menu items?01:52
johnxluke-jr_, nope. it doesn't work like that01:53
luke-jr_:<01:53
luke-jr_would it be simple to hack in?01:53
johnxbut if you patch it we'd love to hear about it01:53
luke-jr_if I make a kexec-capable kernel the default01:53
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johnxyeah, it shouldn't be too hard01:53
johnxpeople haven't had all that much luck with kexec IIRC though01:53
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Davidedamn it01:53
luke-jr_I guess that brings me to the real question:01:54
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luke-jr_is the N810 usable w/ a custom kernel?01:54
Davidecannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy01:54
Davideidk why it's busy..01:54
johnxluke-jr_, largely, as long as you're not tied to Nokia's closed source stuff and you don't care about sound01:54
luke-jr_Davide: fuser -k /media/mmc2 ;)01:54
luke-jr_johnx: sound is buggy?01:54
johnxsound is not there01:54
luke-jr_wtf? -.-01:54
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luke-jr_johnx: and the entire reason I'm enquiring about another kernel is because cx<whatever> one doesn't really work with Mer bootmenu + Gentoo01:55
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Davideluke-jr_ still busy01:55
luke-jr_Davide: too slow; try faster01:55
johnxluke-jr_, it works with bootmenu + debian | mer | ubuntu so I think the problem is gentoo01:56
Davide?01:56
johnxDavide, my bet is metalayercrawler01:56
luke-jr_johnx: old-bootmenu worked ;)01:56
johnxluke-jr_, and the new one works for us, so again, I think the problem is in gentoo01:56
luke-jr_johnx: could be, diablo-sources seems to be missing code to use the modules01:57
johnxhmm?01:57
Davide:(01:58
luke-jr_johnx: http://pastebin.com/m56ce4a5b01:58
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johnxluke-jr_, look at our packages. ;)01:58
luke-jr_johnx: they're binaries, what about them? -.-01:59
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johnxuhm, we have source packages too02:00
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johnxseriously, it's working on mer, it is possible to make it work in gentoo. we're not holding back anything02:01
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, don't lie.02:02
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johnxGeneralAntilles, well, we're not holding anything back, except from people who work on other distros :D02:03
johnx^obviously kidding^02:03
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johnx'later02:03
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luke-jr_johnx: I'm not good at hunting for things I don't know what I need02:03
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luke-jr_the undefined symbols mentioned trying to load it are unknown to Google02:04
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johnxluke-jr_, I don't have time right now. why not just unpack a recent mer image and look at our init.d scripts?02:05
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luke-jr_I fail to see what init.d scripts have to do with missing kernel symbols O.o02:06
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dantonicheh stupid virtual memory was enabled02:07
dantonicI guess that was part of the settings I restored :(02:08
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dantonicWarning: no primary partition is marked bootable (active) This does not matter for LILO, but the DOS MBR will not boot this disk.  Do you want to write this to disk? [ynq]02:12
dantonicDoesnt say anything about this in the guide is this fine? just hit "y"?02:13
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luke-jr_dantonic: DOS doesn't run on Nseries anyway02:15
GeneralAntillesDOSBox02:15
dantonicidk what that means... I just hit Y02:15
dantonicwell I know what dos is but I dont know what it's asking me for exactly02:15
luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: somehow I don't think that's relevant to his problem?02:16
luke-jr_dantonic: it's saying DOS won't like your partition table02:16
luke-jr_dantonic: which doesn't matter since you don't run DOS on it02:16
dantonicso "y" was the correct answer?02:16
luke-jr_sure02:16
dantonicwooohhoooooo!02:16
dantonic:)02:16
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AStormhey guys02:20
AStormanyone wanting to fix Google Maps for our favorite maemo-mapper app?02:20
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ssvbluke-jr_: these symbols are from umac.ko02:27
ssvbluke-jr_: are you trying to use binary wlan driver with the new kernels?02:27
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ssvbluke-jr_: don't know if you are interested, but there is fully open source driver in development: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/stlc45xx/02:33
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dantonicdarn02:45
dantonicSomething went wrong it didn't work02:45
dantonic:(02:45
dantoniccouldn't have been that easy!02:45
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torkianoone question, is the n810 a arm6 device?02:47
ssvbtorkiano: it's armv6 device02:48
torkianossvb, great02:48
torkianoseems that fremantle support our hardware :)02:49
ssvbtorkiano: ?02:49
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torkianothere is a toolchain for arm602:50
torkianoin fremantle beta02:50
GeneralAntillesYeah, not quite.02:53
AStormexcept it's different CPU02:53
AStormsame arch, but it won't run anyway02:53
GeneralAntillestorkiano, most of the N8x0 stuff isn't supported in the Fremantle kernel.02:54
AStormkernels can be replaced - question is, if apps will work02:54
torkianoops :(02:55
torkianowell, we have mer anyway :)02:55
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GeneralAntillesPractically speaking, Mer is going to bring most of the relevant user-facing stuff to OMAP2.02:56
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torkianoI have this error when installing new sdd: /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/invoke-rc.d: line 1: /sbin/runlevel: No such file or directory02:56
torkianoanyone more?02:56
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dantonicok re flashing!03:02
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LiraNunawill Mer have gnome desktop someday? (optional?)03:53
LiraNunaI want deblet :03:53
LiraNuna:<03:53
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lopzgn04:00
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luke-jr_ssvb: no, Diablo kernel04:38
luke-jr_ssvb: the new driver doesn't work with Diablo kernel :/04:39
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nwfHello all.  Relative newcomer to maemo wonders why the maemo-extras repository lacks a Release.gpg?  It's causing my tablet's apt-get to freak out every time I go to fetch a package from said, and by extension making me nervous. :)04:48
johnxnokia does that on purpose for ... some reason? I think to emphasize that packages come from 3rd parties and shouldn't be taken as 100% trusted.04:48
nwfThat's rather unfortunate... surely they could flag that in some way that didn't leave my tablet vulnerable to MITM? :)04:49
timeless_mbpum04:49
timeless_mbpyou'd rather MATE?04:49
timeless_mbp(Man At The End)04:49
nwfYes, much.04:50
timeless_mbpwhy?04:50
johnxtimeless_mbp, well the current situation leaves you vulnerable to both ...04:50
timeless_mbptrue04:50
timeless_mbpso... there's a study somewhere04:50
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timeless_mbpwhich talks about safety helmets04:51
nwfI mean, everybody seems to think it's a great idea (Fedora switched to it after being compromised quite thouroughly; Debian does it...) and I enjoy having my machines check that they "probably" got the right packages.04:51
johnxtimeless_mbp, and how they save lives when worn on bikes and motorcycles?04:51
timeless_mbpand it basically says that there was a time before them when people were somewhat cautious because they understood that there were risks04:51
timeless_mbpand then with their advent, people became in certain areas more reckless and relied on them04:51
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nwf... OK, so patch apt and dpkg to spit out SHA1 sums of the packages it's installing and I'll gladly do the compare by hand. =P04:51
johnxtimeless_mbp, wasn't there a similar study done by car companies when they were trying to avoid having to install seatbelts?04:51
timeless_mbpthe result is that helmets protect you against certain mild things04:52
timeless_mbpbut instead what you get are much more serious injuries04:52
* timeless_mbp shrugs04:52
nwfI... don't see the comparison, frankly.04:52
timeless_mbpjohnx: wrt cars, i think we'd all be better if your car wasn't capable of going 50mph :)04:52
johnxfor me it works as a nice checksum on an unreliable connection04:52
nwfThere's that too.04:53
timeless_mbpkermit :)04:53
* timeless_mbp shrugs04:53
timeless_mbpi don't really care04:53
nwfAgain, patches to make apt use kermit welcome, but the GPG machinery exists and is used on Nokia's real repos as it stands.04:53
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timeless_mbpi think extras is technically more owned by the community04:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx, ABS. ;)04:54
timeless_mbpwhich means in theory you could try to convince X-Fade directly04:54
johnxGeneralAntilles, it's nice in dangerous conditions, I won't lie.04:54
nwf... with slightly less snark, what's the right thing to do here?  Should I file a RFE on maemo.org?04:54
timeless_mbpnwf: i'd hope you'd find there already is one04:54
GeneralAntillesNokia still holds the keys to r.m.o04:54
nwfA few quick googles before I came to the channel didn't turn anything up, but I could have missed it.04:55
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: surely someone could create an additional key04:55
timeless_mbpnwf: well, it'd be in bugs.maemo.org either way04:55
timeless_mbpso search first, and file if you can't find it04:55
GeneralAntillesThe metaphorical ones, not the literal ones.04:55
timeless_mbpnwf: btw arguing from a debian perspective is stupid04:56
timeless_mbpdebian actually *compromised* a significant portion of the world04:56
timeless_mbpand i think you'll find that fedora had to revoke their keys because of the compromise04:57
timeless_mbpwhich means that anyone w/ a system that has the old keys, and bad update info04:57
timeless_mbpcould be theoretically attacked by someone w/ the compromised keys if that victim doesn't manage to get the information about the revocation04:57
nwfErm, the Debian SSL fiasco remains a separate issue.04:57
timeless_mbpsigning doesn't protect against compromise04:58
nwfYes, there are all kinds of PKI issues remaining.  However, not signing the repository doesn't seem like a great solution.04:58
timeless_mbpand in fact auto signing makes things worse04:58
timeless_mbpbecause then you end up w/ hundreds of binaries which you think are ok, but which could be in fact not ok04:58
nwfI understand that signed packages won't protect me from compromise.  it does, however, do a pretty good job of checking that I'm actually talking to the right server.04:58
timeless_mbphttps.04:58
timeless_mbpand don't break the https CA rules04:59
nwfWith cert checking, sure.  Does r.m.o serve on https?  Can I get apt to check this?04:59
timeless_mbpsadly it doesn't, that seems like a reasonable bug to file04:59
nwf(I don't really care about the mechanism; if https works and you don't mind holding my hand to get it deployed on my tablet, I'd be happy to use it instead.)04:59
timeless_mbpi might file that bug, but it's 5am05:00
timeless_mbpand i need to baby sit an upgrade and maybe pretend to sleep05:00
nwfThe advantage of Release.gpg over HTTPS is that it's less work for the r.m.o server to do the Release.gpg signing.05:00
timeless_mbpwell05:00
timeless_mbpr.m.o isn't one server05:00
nwfFair, but the point remains.05:00
timeless_mbpnokia pays for akamai05:00
timeless_mbpor something like it05:00
timeless_mbpand whichever one it is can be paid to get crypto right05:00
nwfAh, if you're using akamai, SSL is somewhat hairy, AFAIK.05:01
timeless_mbpi don't remember if it's still akamai05:01
nwfSince TLS SNI nor HTTP/1.1 Upgrade: STARTTLS haven't yet been widely deployed.05:01
timeless_mbpyeah, it's akamai05:02
GeneralAntillesMaybe if we switch over to carrier pigeons signed with lineart drawings by X-Fade.05:04
johnxtimeless_mbp, what perspective can you compare it to, except for other people who run repositories?05:06
johnxactually, a big nokia modem pool and kermit would be awesome :)05:07
timeless_mbpdrug dealers? :)05:07
timeless_mbpyou go to china and ask for a drug05:07
timeless_mbpyou don't even bother asking for the name brand, generic will be fine05:07
timeless_mbpyou're shocked when it kills your pet goldfish05:07
timeless_mbpafter all, you went to a drug dealer05:08
timeless_mbpisn't that what a pharmacist is?05:08
timeless_mbpah, but was the drug dealer licensed? well no, you say, but that shouldn't matter, after all he knew how to count pills05:08
johnxI think I lost the analogy05:09
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timeless_mbpyou don't just put a stamp of approval on a product and say "oh look"05:09
timeless_mbpin order for a stamp to mean something, the whole process needs to be watched05:10
nwf... would an argument for consistency do anything for you?  Either sign maemo-extras or don't sign any of the repos at all.  You seem to be arguing for the latter position, AFAICT?05:10
timeless_mbpnope05:10
timeless_mbpi'm arguing that nokia is making a certain claim about the signed repository05:11
GeneralAntillesThe Extras QA is not yet so rigorous that we could ensure that packages in it are safe.05:11
nwfThey are making a claim that the repository was in a given configuration at a given time; that's all the Release.gpg file says.05:11
timeless_mbpthat isn't what it says to users05:11
timeless_mbpand what it says to users is what matters05:11
nwfThe point of signing the repositories isn't to ensure that packages are safe -- you need TAL or PCC or some other research project to materialize first to make that claim.05:11
timeless_mbpexplaining that to users is impossible05:12
nwfWhat it says to users is that the package manager doesn't pop up the "these are not Nokia" dialog; you can surely ensure the same experience without compromising the fundamentals.05:12
timeless_mbp"here, trust me, i'm giving you something which isn't tampered"05:12
timeless_mbp"oh, so it's safe, because i trust you"05:12
johnxtimeless_mbp, explaining it to users who already know how to use apt-get from the command line?05:12
timeless_mbp"and if it isn't, then it's your fault, you signed for it"05:12
johnxthis never even shows in h-a-m05:12
timeless_mbpjohnx: actually, it does, kinda05:13
luke-jr_nwf: I believe that pop-up implies signed pkgs ARE guaranteed in some way05:13
johnxtimeless_mbp, but there's no reason it *has* to05:13
johnxit's just arbitrary that unsigned packages trigger that05:13
nwfluke-jr_: That's a bug, not a feature, but OK, keep the pop-up for r.m.o's hypothetical newly signed status, I don't care.05:13
timeless_mbpwe can't change the existing devices05:14
timeless_mbpor their behaviors05:14
timeless_mbpor the users who learned them05:14
GeneralAntillesAnyway, it's probably a topic worth discussion on the lists.05:14
timeless_mbp(in case someone actually read those dialogs)05:14
nwf... I am not suggesting to change the device, the hardware, the behavior, or the users.05:14
nwfI am 100% OK if the user experience is not at all altered by signing r.m.o.05:14
johnxtimeless_mbp, heh. which doesn't matter cause there aren't any SSUs coming down the pike to change the behavior :)05:14
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timeless_mbpjohnx: well, signing diablo-extras would change behaviors05:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx, well, we might end up pushing some.05:15
timeless_mbpand i can't speak for maemo.org05:15
timeless_mbpi'm not council05:15
nwfAnyway, thanks for the discussion... I've filed bug 4415; if it's WONTFIXed, so be it. :)05:17
GeneralAntillesOn that note, I hope we get a Nokian to at least run next election.05:17
johnxnwf, if it's WONTFIXed, check out mer. we sign our repos :)05:17
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: hah05:17
nwfWill mer run on my N810?05:17
timeless_mbpyes05:17
* nwf knows nothing about it05:17
johnxyup05:17
timeless_mbpand you're probably better served by doing so05:18
nwfI just had to reflash my N810 so I'm starting over... should I do so with mer?05:18
* timeless_mbp should reflash at least one n800 w/ it05:18
johnxbasically, we're taking the open source parts of maemo and basing it on ubuntu (a very thin install of ubuntu)05:18
timeless_mbpnwf: i would05:18
johnxnwf, if you have a spare sd card, I'd recommend testing on that05:18
johnxsome things aren't quite there yet, but bugs (or patches!) are welcome05:18
nwf"some things" ? :)05:19
johnxsound05:19
nwf_That's_ a bummer.05:19
johnxit's *almost* there05:19
johnxpower saving could be improved, but that will always be the case on any operating system :)05:19
nwfSince I use my N810 as an overglorified media player for roughly half of its uptime. ;)05:19
johnxso, dual boot from sd card if you want to give it a try05:19
johnxsound should be there in the next couple weeks (if I stop chatting and help the people doing all the work O_o;)05:20
timeless_mbpnwf: if you're big on this stuff, jump fully and help get sound working sooner :)05:20
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, did I also show you my bugzilla mockup?05:21
timeless_mbpbut yeah, if you're afraid, start w/ an sd card05:21
timeless_mbpnope05:21
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/bugzilla-newstyle-test.jpg05:21
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure about the sidebar.05:21
GeneralAntillesI think it's mostly a bad idea.05:21
timeless_mbphold on05:21
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timeless_mbpsee url05:23
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timeless_mbpalso, is bugzilla dev or community? :)05:23
timeless_mbpmxr is clearly dev05:23
jXhey timeless, long time no see. ;)05:23
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GeneralAntillesDev05:23
timeless_mbphey05:23
* jX salutes the General05:23
timeless_mbpask these guys about NAT :)05:23
jXI am :)05:24
jXthat's why I'm here :D05:24
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jXOk, so, what timeless is suggesting I annoy you all with is this. Let's say I have a phone which I can connect to by N810 via bluetooth and surf the interwebs. Now let us say I have a laptop with wifi (or other wifi enabled device). Through what hoops do I need to jump to use the 810 as a bridge to the webotrons?05:26
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GeneralAntillesadhoc might work05:26
johnxhow much control of the phone's networking stack do you have?05:26
jXlittle?05:26
jXI mena, the 810 conencts fine, perfectly05:27
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jXit's an AT&T  3g phone that the n810 can surf effortlessly05:27
johnxNAT on the N810 might work, but I would buy a $10 bt adapter for the notebook05:27
GeneralAntillesJaffa, ahaha, that's what you meant.05:27
* GeneralAntilles is really addled today.05:27
jXjohnx: yeah, the thing here is I have 3g and my friend doesn't, so he wants to be able to connect to my 810's wifi and use my 3g with his 2g iphone while we're on teh road05:28
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jXthe iphone can't tether via bluetooth05:28
jXit's crippled.05:28
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johnxwell, first go out and compile a kernel with all the NAT modules05:28
jXso we're thinking, his iphone can connect to my 810's wifi, then through that to the phone05:28
johnxthought I might have seen some recently05:29
jXhrm05:29
jXI could dual boot that, that'd be acceptable to me.05:29
GeneralAntillesNot gonna be much better than EDGE05:29
johnxyou'll have to run NAT on the N81005:29
GeneralAntillesSince you're bottlenecked to about 50KB/sec05:29
jXI get a littel better than that05:29
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, interesting URL, but what do you think of the sidebar?05:33
timeless_mbpi think you need to consider what happens when there's most stuff there05:33
timeless_mbpbugzilla supports 3 rows of footer stuff05:33
timeless_mbpone is for saved searches and can easily have a dozen links05:34
timeless_mbpif you're an admin, you can have about a dozen links in one of the other rows05:34
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's what I was worried about05:34
GeneralAntillesPlus the horizontal space usage in buglists, etc.05:34
timeless_mbpfurther.... bugzilla uses the right side of the bug for flags and cc lists05:34
GeneralAntillesMaking all the web applications match is a pain.05:34
timeless_mbpayup05:35
locutus  gah05:35
locutuswhy is it that my N810 ALWAYS runs out of batteries in 1 day05:35
GeneralAntilleslocutus, router than doesn't support PSM?05:35
GeneralAntillesSomething running away in the background?05:35
locutusnothing running in the background05:36
locutusbut PSM might be a good one05:36
GeneralAntillesEasy test is to see what sort of battery life you get disconnected.05:36
locutusi'll remind myself to put it in offline mode when i put it in the pack05:36
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GeneralAntillesI guess I should wait until andre__ upgrades to 3.4 before playing too much with the templates.05:37
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LiraNunadoesn't OMAP has 3D acceleration?06:13
GeneralAntillesYes06:14
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LiraNunadoes N8xx use it?06:15
johnxnope06:15
LiraNunajust plain framebuffer06:15
LiraNuna?06:15
johnxyup06:15
johnxplain framebuffer with an LCD controller that has issues06:15
LiraNunablerg06:15
LiraNunano one tried to RE?06:16
johnxsome people have a bit. it's not that simple06:16
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johnxif someone stepped up and lead the effort, they might find people willing to help *hint*hint*06:17
LiraNunahehe06:17
LiraNunawell, I RE'd the Nintendo DS and the GBA a bit06:18
LiraNunaARM11, hmm06:18
LiraNunabtw, what's the GCC target for it? arm-elf, arm-eabi?06:19
LiraNunaarm-linux-elf/eabi?06:19
johnxI think arm-eabi06:20
johnxhmm, actually, my cross compiler is: arm-linux-gnu-gcc06:20
LiraNunano elf?06:21
LiraNunak06:21
LiraNunahttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=612306:21
LiraNunathat's the chip in question?06:21
johnxyup. targeyup06:22
johnx<- cut+paste fail06:22
LiraNunaWLAN a/b/g? is a supported?06:22
johnxb/g only06:22
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LiraNunajohnx, what C library do you use for arm-linux-gnu-gcc?06:25
johnxglibc06:25
* LiraNuna is used to setting up newlib06:25
johnxthere's an SDK you know ...06:25
LiraNunaoh06:26
LiraNunaI'm sorry, I'm used to compiling my own toolchain :/06:26
johnxwell, go for it :)06:26
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johnxthe code sourcery one works too06:26
johnxalso, there were apparently some part of the driver leaked/available for an earlier version of the kernel06:26
LiraNunalink or it didn't happen :D06:27
johnxgaaah06:27
LiraNunahaha06:27
johnxfirst of all, I'm not promising that it's 100% related, and in fact it might not even be for the right chip06:27
johnxbut, let me dig through the logs and find it. could take a couple minutes ...06:27
LiraNunait's a starting point - to see how they thing06:27
LiraNunathink*06:28
LiraNunasee, ARM either has BIOS calls (swi) or memory mapped are for I/O06:28
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LiraNunachecking target system type... Invalid configuration `arm-linux-gnu-gcc': machine `arm-linux-gnu' not recognized06:29
LiraNunaI knew it's missing somethin06:29
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johnxhmm06:30
GeneralAntillesI guess TI decided they wanted to genericize  MID06:31
LiraNunaerr, no need for -gcc :/06:31
johnxah, I just gave you the name of my cross compiler binary :)06:31
LiraNunayeah, I didn't realize that too06:31
LiraNunahow do I gain root on N810?06:32
LiraNunaI want to install ssh06:32
johnxinstall rootsh or install openssh from extras06:32
johnx~extras06:32
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras06:32
johnxalso, the pvr.ko kernel module is in the 2430 sdk for linux06:33
johnxgotta track down a link, but you might do it faster than me06:33
* johnx keeps looking06:33
LiraNuna2430 or 2420?06:33
* rm_you looks back at johnx06:33
johnxhey rm_you06:33
johnxLiraNuna, like I said, i guess I was wrong about it being for exactly our chip06:33
LiraNunaah06:34
johnxit's still an mbx so there might be some clues06:34
johnxif you go here: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ and search for pvr.ko the reading might be interesting06:35
johnxbut no promises06:35
Macerwell06:35
Macerdownload openoffice for windows :)06:35
Macerhaha06:35
Maceri hate the direction ms office took. it looks like it was sent through a gay parade06:35
johnxyou mean it has some sense of aesthetic sensibility? yes, I'd have to agree06:36
LiraNunajohnx, I got my N810 today, I don't seem to have 'extras' in the application manager06:36
johnxthat's why I linked it up above :)06:36
LiraNunaah, I'm sorry I missed that06:36
johnxno prob06:37
johnxyou could also do this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/openssh/06:37
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LiraNunathank you06:39
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GeneralAntillesitT's upgrading.06:43
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johnxItT is06:44
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's what I said. :P06:45
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johnxthat's what *she* said :D06:45
GeneralAntilles*rimshot*06:45
* johnx runs06:45
GeneralAntillesAs sophomoric as it is, there are few jokes with as unlimited potential as that one.06:46
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Macerblah06:51
Macerhave to restart my damn zimbra server06:51
johnxgeek horror movies: "The Zimbra Server of the Damned"06:53
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Macerheh06:57
Macerno.. i just forgot to install ntpd06:57
Maceri don't know wtf i was thinking06:57
Macerand i guess after like 4 months... a clock can drive like 2 weeks off06:57
Macerwtf kind of shit is that?06:57
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johnxpretty crappy clock06:57
Macerit's a vbox :)06:58
johnxstill, PC clocks are pretty atrocious06:58
johnxaaah06:58
johnxfun timing crap :)06:58
Maceryeah. it obviously isn't swiss kept timing06:58
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Macerso things got a little wierd moving the clock up like 2 weeks06:58
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm totally in favor of shipping mechanical movements in new computers just for that purpose. :P06:59
johnxand I want radio-isotope powered laptops, but i don't think we're the target market :)07:00
Macerhaha07:00
Macerthat would be awesome :)07:00
Maceri could picture gears in a computer to keep the timing correct07:00
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, I hate that we're rarely the target market.07:00
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johnxwell, things are moving towards more and more targeted markets :)07:01
johnxit's a nice change07:01
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Macersince i gave Sts my n800  have like 3 SDs i'm not using heh.. going to copy important stuff to them now07:01
Maceri should start using the S in the SD part07:02
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thuxmorning08:56
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Stskeepsdear god, new iTT theme is evil in the morning09:23
johnxah. it's back up?09:24
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GAN8001Stskeeps, don't be hateful.09:32
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StskeepsGAN800: ah, i'm just sensitive to light in the morning :P09:34
johnxespecially when you're note expecting it :)09:34
GeneralAntillesReggie made a rather herculean effort getting it together, but it needs some tweaking.09:35
Stskeepshehe09:35
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GeneralAntillesThe js dropdown menus just don't work.09:35
* johnx digs the big font09:36
* luke-jr_ notes dropdown menus can work without js09:36
* Corsac still has the old theme09:36
Corsac(but I'm not logged in)09:36
luke-jr_johnx: I hope they aren't forcing a set font size on everyone? :/09:36
johnxmy autopager doesn't work anymore :/09:36
luke-jr_or worse, scaling the viewer's preference larger :/09:37
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johnxmmm, minimalistic is darker and lightning fast09:38
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johnxI think I'll take Denmark's police over UK police :)09:49
johnxhttp://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/28/police-in-denmark-hu.html09:49
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LiraNunahow does USB OTG works?09:51
LiraNunaI got the adapter09:51
johnxn810 or n800?09:52
LiraNunaN81009:52
LiraNuna(WiMAX)09:52
johnxah, so you have a micro-a -> full sized a adapter? or a micro-b -> female-female -> full sized a09:52
johnx?09:52
LiraNunamicro-b -> female09:53
LiraNunahttp://www.twstore.com/gcusbafzm.html09:54
LiraNunathis one09:54
LiraNunaa better picture - http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/twstore_2045_7064094409:54
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LiraNunaI tried a USB flash drive, but it won't receive power and I don't see anything in the file manager09:54
johnxhttp://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode09:55
johnxas root: http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode09:55
johnxthere's a cool little statusbar applet that does it too09:55
johnxmore copy fail from me, as root: echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode09:56
LiraNunajohnx, thanks a lot09:56
LiraNuna"sudo gainroot" ? no "sudo su -" ?09:57
johnxI forgot why su doesn't work09:58
dantonicHey anyone have Openoffice 3.0 working on their tablet?09:58
johnxI think it has to do with busybox not having SUID root bit set09:58
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LiraNunasuid bit? I thought root == userid(1000)09:59
johnxroot = userid 010:00
LiraNunaerr, normal users are 100010:00
LiraNuna<- long day10:00
johnxsecond, the SUID bit gives an app the ability to act with the permissions of its owner10:00
Stskeepsjohnx: they're often friendly unless you're hostile10:01
johnxStskeeps, yeah! they were in Japan too! it's just such a foreign concept to me though...10:01
LiraNunaStskeeps, are you suggesting I'm a troll?10:01
johnxI think he's referring to an earlier comment I made about police in Denmark :)10:02
LiraNunaor I'm having a really long day and need to rest..10:02
StskeepsLiraNuna: nah, talking about danish policemen :)10:02
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johnxbasically the only way to have a usable su on maemo is to essentially give all apps SUID root privileges (because they're all just links to busybox)10:06
johnxor have a standalone su binary that's not linked to busybox10:07
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johnxsince Nokia didn't really want to hand out root on the device anyways (except to developers, etc), they just decided that the sudo gainroot hack was good enough10:07
Stskeepsand sudoers.d10:08
Stskeepswhich is actually sane10:08
johnxyes, sudoers.d is a nice touch10:08
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johnx<- big fan of turning monolithic config files into foo.d10:09
Stskeepsmore than welcome to work on /etc/hildon.d btw10:10
johnxfor startup? or for general settings?10:11
Stskeepsfor start-hildon startup10:11
Stskeepsso i can dump it let's say 05set-backlight or whatever10:11
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johnxyes, and so we can support multiple devices10:12
Stskeepswait, where's the "Thanks" button on the new theme?10:12
Stskeepsnm10:12
Stskeepswhere's the Thanks count? :P10:13
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mgedminhm, there could be a suid wrapper that execs busybox with argv[0] set appropriately, if it matches a whitelist10:21
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LiraNunahow come I can't access maemo.org from my tablet?10:37
johnxwhat happens when you try?10:38
LiraNuna"Connecting"10:38
johnxconnects just fine here10:39
johnxcan you get to anything else?10:39
LiraNunayeah, easy10:39
johnxweirdness10:40
johnxthey use a caching network and they just changed a whole bunch of stuff, so ...10:40
johnxmaybe try to force a reload, though I'm not sure how you do that on the tablet's browser ..10:40
LiraNunaI just want to get usb otg working :<10:40
johnxif you already added extras, I think that usb otg plugin is available from app manager10:40
johnxnot sure if it's extras or extras-devel10:41
StsN801ljp, much appreciated on the speedy inclusion of osso-system-lock-l10n-public :)10:41
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LiraNunaI installed maemo-usb-control and I see nothing10:41
StsN801(source)10:41
johnxLiraNuna, it's an application. look in your menus10:41
johnxprobably extras or something10:41
LiraNunanothing10:42
StsN801control panel?10:42
johnxah, is that the one that adds a control panel applet?10:42
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johnxanyways, good luck. I'm off to bed10:43
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StsN801nini10:44
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LiraNunaI tried, there's nothing in panels10:47
StsN801in settings-control panel?10:48
johnxjust fyi, maemo-control-usb seems to be for usb networking10:49
johnxshould be bottom of the control panel, "USB networking"10:49
johnxLiraNuna, anyways, all the GUI things do at their core is echo host > /sys/...10:51
* johnx really sleeps10:51
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StsN801and rmmod g_file_storage10:52
johnxStsN801, only the ones that enable usb networking. for host mode you need g_file_storage IIRC10:53
StsN801k10:53
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JaffaMorning, all10:59
timeless_mbpyes11:00
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: newstyle bugzilla looks good11:04
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lbtmorning Jaffa11:10
lbtbleb's being useful again.... lets me mirror fremantle to OBS really easily so Stskeeps can promote things into Mer already11:11
JaffaCool11:12
lbtyup11:13
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LiraNunahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cym7UaUk5s8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.valeriovalerio.org%2F%3Fp%3D225&feature=player_embedded12:10
LiraNunahow can they blur/drag and others?12:10
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JaffaLiraNuna: "they"?12:14
LiraNuna"the developers" hehe12:15
JaffaBecause Maemo 5 supports OpenGL-ES and, on top of it, Clutter.12:15
LiraNunawill it run on N series?12:16
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JaffaLiraNuna: Do you mean existing N800 or N810 devices?12:17
LiraNunaJaffa, yes12:17
JaffaNo.12:17
JaffaParts of Maemo 5 are being backported as part of the Mer project: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer12:17
Myrttithat demo just makes me want to cry a bit more for a knitting pattern designer12:18
LiraNunait could if we had the PowerVR, right?12:18
JaffaLiraNuna: Theoretically12:18
LiraNunado Nokia have plans for next gen N series tablet?12:19
JaffaOne assumes so ;-)12:19
Jaffa~rx-5112:19
infobotmethinks rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html12:19
JaffaHave a look at those articles ---^12:19
LiraNunathanks12:21
LiraNunaI found pvrdrv.ko, it still have debug symbols on it12:22
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JaffaLiraNuna: You may also be interested in http://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification and http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Drivers_justification12:24
LiraNunaI read those, thanks. but I don't really thinks TI cares12:24
StsN801its imgtech, not ti12:25
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LiraNunahttp://liranuna.com/junk/pvr.ko.objdump.txt12:43
LiraNuna00002d84 T AllocStaticFBMem12:43
LiraNuna000070f8 T InitMpegDeviceInfo12:43
LiraNunaI say we found gold12:44
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JaffaLiraNuna: Where's this pvrdrv.ko come from? Presume it's not insertable on an N8x0?12:48
LiraNunaJaffa, I didn't try12:48
LiraNunabut pvr is global, I doubt that there are several versions of it12:49
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LiraNunabut it's a valid armel kernel object12:49
LiraNunawith a lot of debug symbols12:49
Stskeepshmm12:49
Stskeepslook for kernel version12:49
JaffaThere was previously one for the PepperPad, IIRC - but I can't remember the details (or if it was a different module)12:49
Jaffalardman did a lot of research on it12:50
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LiraNunais PepperPad compatible with N8x0?12:53
LiraNunaerr PP's HW12:54
X-FadeNo, different powervr.12:55
LiraNunaand where's the research is currently12:55
X-FadeLiraNuna: And that driver doesn't do anything without the userspace binaries.12:56
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LiraNunaX-Fade, I'm investigating, I come from ARM 7-9 EB embedded dev12:56
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X-FadeLiraNuna: Well, I wish you good luck ;)12:59
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LiraNunahttp://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdkdownloads/index.asp#GLES1b13:18
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LiraNunathere's a system emulator13:22
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RST38hhttp://de.ifun.ru/8/v/8v8cq1z7.jpg (no translation required)13:59
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StsN800wtf14:04
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aquatixwhat the hell?14:07
* Myrtti gives everyone a lollipop14:07
Myrttihmmmm?14:08
aquatixyum14:09
* aquatix liks Myrtti lollip- hm, better not say that14:09
aquatix*licks14:10
aquatixaaanyways, quiet here :)14:10
lbtwe's in #mer14:10
aquatixhm, good point14:11
lbtno lollipops in #mer though...14:11
aquatix:(14:12
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JaffaQuick question before I look stupid: does the t.m.o theme have a way of going to "first new post" when using the "new posts" search?14:22
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JaffaAha, clicking on the "replies" number at the right looks like it should do it14:23
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lbtwhat's it called when a company grows and you split of a good section?14:36
derfA spin-off.14:36
lbtyeah, I'm looking for a good word for a CV14:37
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Jaffalbt: "I was heavily involved in the setting up of the spin-off company, Visteon, from its parent company Ford"14:48
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lbtI think divest is winning14:48
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Jaffalbt: IOW, "spin-off" is fine for a CV IMNSHO14:48
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woglinde_yeah spin-off is good14:52
lbtok... less poncy14:53
woglinde_lbt why do you need a new job?14:55
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woglinde_hi qgil14:56
qgilhi14:56
qgilX-Fade: do you know whether there is a page equivalent to http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/ for the Danish Weekend, so people can see the status of their sponsorship requests?=14:56
qgillbt was asking for the status of his sponsorship but I actually don't find him in the regitrsation14:57
X-Fadeqgil: They can see their own status through the register link.14:57
qgilmaybe he didn't complete/started the sponsorship request, but he could not check14:57
X-FadeIIRC>14:57
woglinde_qgil can you say something about the gles stuff for endusers? do they have to get a "personal" license too?14:57
qgilah ok, that should be enough14:57
qgilwoglinde_ gles in Fremantle?14:58
lbtqgil: really?14:58
woglinde_qgil yes14:58
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qgilMaemo 5 users will get their devices (evebntually paying for them) and that will be it, only a buch of hackers will be aware of something called OpenGL ES under the hood14:58
woglindeqgil ah okay so have this agreement with imaginations14:59
lbtqgil: 100% sure I filled it in :)14:59
X-Fadelbt: Also confirmed the next step?15:00
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lbt(nb, at the time it *didn't* say I had to register15:00
qgillbt please apply for sponsorship at http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/register/8352ee2c242e11de8f60a7c7088bfc14fc14/15:00
lbtYes, I confirmed...15:00
lbtheh, it remembers my answers :)15:00
qgilwoglinde: the software in the image will contain whatever agreements with third parties, as usual15:00
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X-Fadelbt: Yes, those are stored in your profile.15:01
qgilany other developers thinking of applying, please do it soon (like e.g. now)15:01
lbtindeed - doesn't prove anything mind you15:01
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qgilX-Fade: fyi Sponsorship request for Maemo event rejected email contains no text at all, including my explanations - now lost15:07
X-Fadeqgil: Hmm that is strange, I copied them from the old maemo2007 style.15:08
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lopzhola15:38
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woglindejo luck16:21
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cosmo_how do i install an application to Settings menu?16:51
woglinde.desktop file16:51
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cosmo_i checked some .desktop files for applications in it, but they don't have category specified16:51
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cosmo_hm, i'll just have to try if it respects Category=Settings16:54
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Guest9625_967no news for ubuntu MID?  is it allready downloadable somewhere?17:32
Stskeepsubuntu mid sucked, according to Meiz :P17:33
Guest9625_967you try it?17:33
Guest9625_967you probably try an alpha version17:34
Guest9625_967lol17:34
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thuxwonder why watching flash video takes much more battery than watching wmv...17:53
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Stskeepsflash is nasty17:53
Stskeeps:P17:53
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thuxseems so17:54
X-Fadebacon?!? Bacone: http://blog.bacn.com/2009/03/baconcamp-the-bacone/ :)17:54
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yergaHave lcuk seen this: http://bacolicio.us/ ?17:55
X-FadeThat bacn.com is also a site dedicated to bacon ;)17:56
X-Fadeyerga: Lol @project application message ;)17:57
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yergaX-Fade, hehe18:00
yergait hasn't much sense write the same thing so many times ;)18:01
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X-Fadeyerga: Indeed.18:02
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disco_stuyerga, hi, is it working flickr with sharepy?18:04
yergadisco_stu, it should ;)18:04
disco_stuyerga, cant set the username18:04
disco_stuyerga, config stuff18:05
yergaflickr not need username18:05
yergait launch the browser and you activate it in flickr18:05
disco_stu?18:05
disco_stuah ok18:05
yergadisco_stu, actually there is a bug18:06
yergajust discovered it18:07
disco_stuyerga, its not launching anything18:07
disco_stuyerga, lol18:07
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disco_stu:-(18:08
yergaI'll fix it in one moment ;)18:08
yergaHi lcuk18:08
disco_stuyerga, np man18:08
disco_stuyerga, no hay problema :)18:08
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lcukhi yerga!18:16
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* lcuk is being kicked out already lol18:16
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RST38hmoo all18:29
disco_stumoo18:29
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z4chhthere a git installer anywhere? i can't seem to find one18:49
z4chhfor my n810..18:49
andre__what is a git installer?18:49
z4chh.install for git :D18:50
lbtapt-get install git18:50
z4chhlbt, i don't have the repo for it i suppose :\18:50
lbthmm lcuk has it I think18:51
* lbt isn't daft enough to run git on his tablet18:51
Stskeepsi had bzr on my tablet.18:51
z4chhlbt, eh?18:51
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lbtlcuk has git installed - he may know where it came from if not extras(-devel)18:52
z4chhyeah, ill have to speak to him about it...im trying to get his setup going for dev'ing liqbase18:52
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z4chhi already have scratchbox...but i want to see if a setup like his would be better18:53
RST38hHeh...US carriers screwed Nokia on billing18:57
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irgsomethingare there any audio-tools like a spectrum analyzer for my n810?18:59
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disco_stuyerga: are you there19:01
yergadisco_stu, yes19:01
disco_stuyerga: i've been inspecting the svn19:01
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disco_stuyerga: we need some documentation19:02
disco_stuyerga: cause at first glance is hard to follow the code19:02
yergadisco_stu, yes I agree19:03
disco_stuyerga: i'll try to write some19:03
disco_stuyerga: with some diagrams19:03
yergadisco_stu, it would be great19:03
yergathanks19:03
disco_stuyerga: what i want to ask you19:03
disco_stuyerga: how do you upload the deb to the repo ?19:04
disco_stuyerga: because i thought autobuilder had problem with python based apps19:04
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yergadisco_stu, it handles any source packages19:04
disco_stuyerga: maybe it was my idea then19:05
yergaI do the packaging with a Makefile, setup.py and debian/ stuff19:05
yergathe Makefile just run the setup.py19:05
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lcukz4chh, look in the apt sources list inside scratchbox, it includes the sdk and sdktool repos which if you add to your device gives you apt-get git goodness capabilities19:13
lcukas well as everything else19:13
z4chhthanks lcuk19:13
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lcukarent u meant to be studying tho lol19:13
z4chhlunch break19:14
lcukheh yeah right :P19:14
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lcukn810 finally died on wifi :( (or just dc'ed)19:15
z4chheh?19:15
lcuki have the new router19:16
lcukthe n810 lasted for much longer19:16
z4chhno more adhoc?19:16
lcukbut its finally died19:16
lcukno, powersaving on my laptop after an upgrade meant windows kept popping a balloon every 30 seconds saying "connected"   "disconnected" etc19:17
lcukand really pissed me off, so i went and got a router so it can deal with the connection requests ;)19:17
z4chhi figured out my n810 ssh connection refused problem19:17
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lcukyeah?   bad key or router config19:17
z4chhmore like bad zach19:18
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lcukdid u reflash yourself/19:18
z4chhyes :\19:18
lcukhh19:18
lcukanyway i wasnt stopping, i will bbiab19:18
z4chhi don't have a usb port on my person though19:18
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z4chhanyways, i manually assign all ip's on my LAN..and i was accidently using an ip also used on my dad's windows laptop19:20
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jeremiah_X-Fade: ping19:39
jeremiah_X-Fade: No fires needed, or still need, putting out on garage?19:39
radicis obexftp available for maemo19:39
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radiclibc6-dev: Depends: libc6 (= 2.5.0-1osso7) but 2.5.0-1osso10 is to be installed20:00
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radicStskeeps: say anything that helps me20:02
Stskeepsradic: sorry, i'm not a personal support line :/20:02
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z4chhhow do you turn off and keep off the scrollbar for osso_xterm?20:03
radicStskeeps: i thought you are my supportline20:04
Stskeepsradic: 20 eur/hour20:04
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RST38hSts: that's cheap20:05
Stskeepsmy point is, anyone could try to answer here, targetting me exactly is a waste of time :P20:05
StskeepsRST38h: meh, pays the bills20:06
* Stskeeps is happy to help but on my own choice.20:06
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yergaX-Fade, ping!20:10
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Stskeepswait20:28
Stskeepswasn't today "Update on Maemo" at Nokia Developer Summit?20:28
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yergaStskeeps, yes20:31
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Stskeepsany news? :P20:31
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yergaI haven't seen any20:31
yergaeverything from there is symbian related20:31
timeless_mbpnokia developer summit?20:32
timeless_mbpwhat's that?20:32
timeless_mbp(asked the nokian)20:32
Stskeepshttp://events.nokia.com/developersummit/20:33
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disco_stuyerga: is pypackager still available ?20:38
yergadisco_stu, I think so20:39
yergabut I don't know, I haven't used it20:39
disco_stuyerga: how do you make the package build ?20:39
yergaIn scratchbox I do dpkg-buildpackage to create .tar.gz .dsc and .changes20:40
yergaand I upload it to the autobuidler20:40
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Jaffare20:42
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timeless_mbpcool20:46
timeless_mbpso, RealPlayer Downloader.app lets me slurp flv files :) and RealPlayer.app can play them20:46
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dantonichi anyone use xchat?20:53
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timeless_mbpoh wow20:54
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timeless_mbpso, they did announce two things at around 8:20-8:30/17:2520:54
* timeless_mbp chuckles20:55
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lbt?20:56
Jaffatimeless_mbp: poh? (on train, slow connection, no video etc.)20:56
slonopotamusdantonic, yes20:57
dantonicslonopotamus are you able to use sounds?20:58
dantonicslonopotamus what's your configuration?20:58
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slonopotamussay smth20:59
slonopotamusdantonic, nope, doesn't work21:01
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VDVsxbahhhhhhhhhhhh: http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/009/04/dream_is_over_n97_processor_details_revealed.htm21:26
VDVsxgood news for the tablets, will be the powerful nokia device :P21:26
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lcukVDVsx, the cpu in my humble n810 is no slouch, it just wastes a lot of time doing graphics rendering that should be offloaded21:30
lcukquote: Nokia N97 is indeed looks pretty fast with some nice transitions mainly due the code optimization but the trick is to optimize the software to run smooth on the best hardware and optimizing software to be useable on low-end hardware is similarly disappointing!21:31
lcukthats wrong way round surely21:31
GeneralAntillesNice21:31
lcukoptimized to work as well as possible on lowest hardware gives flawless perf on higher spec21:31
GeneralAntillesPeople shot me down when I said the next tablet would be Nokia's first OMAP3 device. :P21:32
lcukhiya GAN21:32
lcukheh, if it gets out the door first :P21:32
Proteousman, I was lookin forwared to the n9721:32
lcukyou should still21:32
lcukits not a bad device21:32
lcukthey are just ripping it21:32
VDVsxlcuk, yap, my 5800 is also fast enough, but ultra cool graphics provided by a omap3 will be much better :P21:33
lcukmy finger went numb today :S i couldnt feel it for a couple of hours :S21:33
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lcukomap3 doesnt provide ultra cool graphics?   developers do :P21:33
GeneralAntillesIt's interesting to see Samsung leading with the cutting-edge S60 devices.21:33
lcukand my omap2 certainly feels good21:33
VDVsxlcuk, haa, right :P21:34
VDVsxlcuk, you know what I meant21:34
VDVsx:)21:34
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radichow to send a file via bluetooth from the terminal?21:35
lcukbus or train terminal?21:36
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irgsomethingLOL21:36
z4chhhey qwerty1221:37
qwerty12hi z4chh :)21:37
lcukhey qwerty12 \o21:37
qwerty12hi lcuk :D21:37
lcukyou were missed terribly - we made a whole new "answer all problems" web knowledge domain21:37
lcukjust goto qwerty.com21:37
GeneralAntillesandre__, think a Talk product is at all worthwhile?21:38
lcukyou need to start a business :|21:38
radiclcuk: from bash21:38
z4chhyo qwerty, do you know of a simple way to keep the scrollbar off for osso-xterm?21:38
lcukradic, i dunno - ive heard about it being done21:38
qwerty12z4chh: you can run "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" but the setting isn't retained once you close it :/21:39
z4chhqwerty12, yeah ;p21:39
lcukSEE!21:39
z4chhive gone through about 5 files trying to automate that when i start xterm21:40
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lcukz4chh, you can create an alieas so its just one short cmd i think21:40
z4chhlike: Exec="/usr/bin/osso-xterm && gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" ..in osso-xterm.desktop21:40
lcukor make a new .desktop file for console :O21:41
* lcuk is thinking logically21:41
qwerty12z4chh: why not just add it to ~/.profile or somesuch?21:41
qwerty12Make it set 1 first and then 021:41
z4chhhmm21:42
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z4chhIs there a problem with executing a file on (for n810) /media/mmc2?21:46
qwerty12/media/mmc2 is mounted noexec21:47
z4chhi seem to not be able to even with chmod a+x o_o21:47
z4chhahh21:47
z4chhthat's a problem o_o21:47
qwerty12grep the scripts in /usr/sbin for noexec21:47
qwerty12I can't remember off the top of my head which script mounts the memory carc21:47
qwerty12*card21:47
qwerty12And, also, you'll wanna make sure your mounted partition isn't vfat21:48
z4chhi can't just take off noexec in mtab? remount?21:48
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qwerty12"mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc2" may work but I'm not really sure21:49
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z4chhi got it21:50
z4chhi just edited /etc/mtab21:50
qwerty12Cool21:50
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GeneralAntillesAh, yerga, nice video.22:08
GeneralAntillesThat really is slick22:08
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yergaGeneralAntilles, thanks22:09
lcuktheres slick stuff?22:09
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yergalcuk, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-D-J0Y7ufM22:12
yergaand this: http://bacolicio.us/22:12
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lcukmmm yerga that looks great22:17
lcukits nice to see apps behaving very slickly22:18
GAN800Scroll indicators are a page from Apple's book but really work well.22:18
lcukits a page from a logical book22:19
GAN800Apple's logical book. ;)22:19
johnxgood interface design is stealing what works well and dropping what doesn't22:19
GAN800Hey, sjgadsby22:19
Stskeepsooh. i'll look forward to a rx-51.22:19
sjgadsbyHi, GAN800. What's up?22:19
GAN800Maemo 5 is finally going to be the 'usable' I've been waiting for since 200522:20
GAN800Nothing interesting.22:20
sjgadsbySo, when is "Bacon discussion" being added to the description of this channel?22:20
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lcukthis channel? im fishing to have the next nokia model named after it22:20
GAN800The first rule of bacon discussion is you never talk about bacon discussion.22:21
GAN800Rover22:21
lcuknBacon22:21
dantonichey what other different type of players are available for maemo?  sox? what else?22:21
GAN800They could always do a charity model22:22
johnxdantonic, low-level cli stuff? or GUI stuff?22:22
GAN800Apple has those RED iPods, we could have a Bacon Edition.22:22
lcuklol GAN800 the bacon model would be the heavy weight one with acna22:22
dantonicjohnx low level... basically I'm trying to find a way to make sound work in Xchat22:22
lcukacne22:22
dantonicjohnx and nothing seems to work so far22:22
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johnxI think sox might be available or whatever "play" is part of22:22
dantonicjohnx what's "play?"22:23
johnxI thought it was part of sox. let me check which package it's part of22:23
johnxwell, sox is available22:24
johnxit's in extras I think22:24
dantonicjohnx I think I have it I did apt-get install sox22:25
dantonichow would I test playing a sound file from the command line?22:25
dantonicsox /path/sound.wav ?22:25
johnxI don't know. type man sox into google22:25
johnxalso, see if you have play available, I think it should do close to what you want22:26
johnxwhich play22:26
johnx^type that into xterm^22:26
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dantonicit finds play:  /usr/bin/play22:27
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johnxthen do play foo.wav22:28
penguinbaitAlright, who turned ITT into the ugly stepchild22:28
dantonicjohnx when Itry to play with the "play" command I get:  Sorry, this wav file is in MPEG Layer 3 format.22:28
penguinbaitthe beating just went a little to far I think22:28
dantonicwhat am I missing?22:28
johnxdantonic, that's no wav. It's an mp3! :)22:28
dantonicbut it's not it's a .wav file dont get it...22:29
dantonicit's the wav files that come with xchat22:29
dantonichmm wait I tried another of the wav files and it worked22:29
johnx:)22:30
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, give it a few days.22:30
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure what the purpose of the poll is.22:32
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lcukmy eyes, the goggles - they do nothing22:33
dantonicbah still doesnt work in xchat :(22:33
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GeneralAntillesInteresting, Modest plugins.22:35
dantonicwhat other players are available?22:35
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GeneralAntillesWhy do all these blogs have comment systems if you can never freaking leave comments?22:36
GeneralAntillesAny Modest devs  about?22:36
* lcuk is very modest22:37
johnxdantonic, it works from the CLI, but not in xchat?22:37
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lcukGeneralAntilles, has thanks button been removed in the new theme?22:38
* lcuk cant find it22:38
GeneralAntillesAre you logged in?22:38
GeneralAntillesIt's in the same place it's always been.22:38
penguinbaitGA, the purpose of the poll is to convince you all, THAT YOU MADE A MISTAKE22:39
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, you had an opportunity to do that months ago.22:39
penguinbaitITT is now ugly, you aint got no aliby22:39
penguinbaitits ugly22:39
penguinbaitReaally, nobody told me22:39
GeneralAntillesBut apparently you didn't care enough to do involve yourself in the process then, so now you really don't have much right to be this negative now.22:39
penguinbaitGA is such a dick22:40
penguinbaitthats negative22:40
johnxpenguinbait, yeah, he's a dick, but he's also right22:40
johnx:)22:40
johnxGeneralAntilles, I mean that in the nicest way possible :)22:40
GeneralAntillesI'd say I'm an asshole and not a dick.22:40
GeneralAntillesBut that's just me. ;)22:40
RST38h"...and after several failed attempts at outbreak containment, the area was firebombed."22:40
dantonicjohnx sox converts audio files... it's not a player??22:40
penguinbaitWhere was I supposed to go to find out that I was supposed to put in my comments months ago22:41
* RST38h 100% agrees with penguinbait22:41
johnxdantonic, it's a lot of things22:41
RST38h(on ITT being ugly)22:41
dantonichow do I use it to play?22:41
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dantonicthe man only talks about converting files22:41
VDVsxyerga, I saw in your screencast that you also have strange colors and visual defects in the dialog and in other elements.22:41
johnxpenguinbait, the same forum you're complaining about -or- this IRC channel -or- planet maemo22:41
penguinbaitYou say I misse3d my opportunity, thaat I didn't know existed22:41
johnxdantonic, the play command is part of the sox package22:41
johnxread the man page for "play"22:41
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, you did see the news about Talk months and months ago, right?22:41
johnxbut you said it worked ...22:42
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penguinbaitSeems to me that Maemo Council could do a better job at informing the community of where and when their input is needed22:42
RST38hGA: Current incarnation of talk.maemo.org has got Problems.22:42
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as a "Maemo Council"22:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I agree.22:42
lcukGeneralAntilles, i saw it too, and i saw the maemo.org redesign come into shape, but i dont recall discussing the forum theming22:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, but one of those problems is not "SCRAP THE WHOLE THING!"22:42
penguinbaitMaemO Counc1l22:42
penguinbaitMaemO Counc1l22:42
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RST38hGA: Nah, there is no reason to scrap it22:42
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, do you watch Planet?22:42
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GeneralAntillespenguinbait, because that's one of several places the website redesign was discussed.22:43
penguinbaitjust give us a them alternative that is somewhat similar to the old site22:43
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RST38hGA: But emulating the original ITT more closely by having the global view of all latest threads on the main page would be nice22:43
lcuk+122:43
lcukthats the principle difference for me22:43
lcukthe rest can be cured with css22:43
Stskeepsi miss my thanks count, as i'm a karma whore..22:43
Stskeeps:P22:43
RST38hGA: And using smaller fonts too - the current fonts do not allow to put all the necessary stuff at the visible part of the page22:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, well, there's an active topics bar on the right.22:44
* lcuk saw that bit of the discussion 22:44
lcuklol22:44
Stskeepsyeah22:44
Stskeepsi like the active topics one22:44
RST38hGA: But we do not want a bar22:44
GeneralAntillesThe fonts match the rest of maemo.org22:44
lcukspeak for yourself22:44
RST38hGA: We just want an active topic view.22:44
lcuki want a well stocked bar22:44
* RST38h stocks lcuk's bar )22:44
* lcuk drinks22:44
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'd recommend bookmarking/shortcutting this URL http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew22:44
RST38hGA: They do match, but this is detrimental to site's usability22:45
GeneralAntillesRST38h, active topics hardly seem like what this discussion is about.22:45
penguinbaitI think the new site it as ugly as the n800 when I bought it22:45
lcukGeneralAntilles, isnt the url gonna die anyway>22:45
RST38hGA: As I said, it makes no sense scrapping the whole thing22:45
penguinbaitIt did grow on me, but when I pick it up today, its an ugly device22:45
GeneralAntilleshttp:/talk.maemo.org/search.php?do=getnew22:45
RST38hGA: So, just listing the absolutely minimal amount of changes needed to make it usable22:45
johnxpenguinbait, so you're saying that nokia has achieved great cross-platform branding? :D22:46
* sjgadsby thinks GA needs more slashes in that URL.22:46
GeneralAntillesYeah, yeah.22:46
RST38hNo, GA, this getnew thing is pretty in a web designer kind of way but it is way less usable than the original ITT22:46
johnxalso, if anyone uses autopager, I updated the autopager patter to support it :)22:46
* GeneralAntilles sighs.22:46
lcukGeneralAntilles, that new posts misses a load of stuff that IS listed in the active topics on the right22:46
lcukim confused22:46
RST38hGA: The original ITT lets you see all this stuff WITHOUT scrolling22:46
lcuki was trying to spot a thread id just posted in22:47
RST38hGA: This getnew thing has each topic in a nice bubble with some cute fonts but it is NOT the purpose of the page22:47
lcukand its third on the right, but nowhere on the new stuff22:47
lcukhmm22:47
RST38hGA: The purpose of the page is to see the most latest posts at one glance22:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, go talk to Reggie.22:48
GeneralAntillesI really don't have any control over it.22:48
RST38hGA: I kinda suspect he will agree. Ok, will do.22:48
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penguinbaitthe new look was an upgrade for maemo.org, it was a downgrade to ITT22:48
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sjgadsbyThreads can be active without being new to you, lcuk.22:49
lcuklooks very big and readable on a small device22:49
johnxhis poll isn't going so well22:49
RST38hhere, you pissed off penguinbait.22:49
RST38h=)22:49
GeneralAntillesFine by me.22:49
lcuksjgadsby, i had a post from 16mins ago22:49
GeneralAntillesHe's the one that came in spewing bile.22:49
lcukthat is not listed on new stuff22:49
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lcukwhich shows back about 4 hours22:49
GeneralAntilleslcuk, have you already read it?22:49
RST38hGA: which basically means he got pissed BEFORE coming here =)22:49
GeneralAntillesNew posts shows unread threads.22:49
sjgadsbylcuk: Yes, but if you're the last poster, then you've seen everything in the thread.22:49
lcukyeah but thats not what i want22:49
GeneralAntillesIf you want all threads updated recently, you want Today's Posts22:50
lcukthe old one didnt care whether i had seen it before22:50
lcukit was just the latest things22:50
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily22:50
lcukthats it!22:50
lcuknow all we need do is css the font and color down22:50
lcukand we have the original itt frontpage!22:50
dantonicjohnx thanks for your help... however can't get it to work...22:51
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johnxdantonic, you said it worked from the commandline? I don't understand what you're saying isn't working ...22:51
RST38hGA: Notice that it shows at most 4 (four) topics22:51
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RST38hGA: On a standard 1280x800 display22:52
lcukRST38h, that latest link shows that you want22:52
RST38hGA: But it does show lots and lots of eyecandy22:52
dantonicjohnx yeah it does but it doesnt work in xchat :(22:52
lcukwrong font but the info is there22:52
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johnxdantonic, playing the same file as from the commandline? are you providing the whole path?22:52
RST38hlcuk: Yea, but the layout still makes it only show 4 entries without scrolling22:52
dantonicI think so... I'm providing /usr/bin/play22:52
johnxremember that capitalization matters22:52
lcukwell im just goin on userstyles.org and using the stylish plugin for firefox i will try and cure that22:53
johnxand you're not trying to play the "fake" .wavs that came with xchat?22:53
dantonictrying the same path I use in the terminal to play the same file22:53
* lcuk can see the big readable fonts working on n81022:53
dantoniclet me play with it some more22:53
johnxdantonic, I think you'd have the same problem with any commandline audio player22:54
lcukbut you are right RST38h on desktop theres no need22:54
johnxpeople use "play" in desktop xchat all the time22:54
johnxdantonic, one more idea: try running xchat from an xterm, then it should spit out an error if it fails to use play22:54
dantonicjohnx good idea let me try22:55
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ShadowJKhuh, what's this about "big fonts" and "small device", surely on small device you want smaller fonts so that you don't need to scroll around22:56
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lcukhave you seen the fremantle videos? scrolling looks fun!22:56
RST38hlcuk,johnx,qwerty: BTW , could you drop your $.02 on this issue: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=436922:57
ShadowJKno, but if it's like tear on N8x0, then it gets old and annoying once the touchscreen is >6months old ;)22:57
lcukShadowJK, not to me, i have big fast super scrolling too22:57
RST38hMy guess is that if it is not being publically discussed, the web site maintainer will quietly close or ignore the bug report22:57
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dantonicwell... johnx now it seems to work...22:58
dantonicdidnt really do anything...22:58
johnx:)22:58
dantonicjust started from the terminal22:58
dantonicLOL22:58
johnxthat's the way it always goes22:58
johnxglad it works22:58
ShadowJKlcuk, I meant when touchscreen registers drag as a series of clicks with random intervals, the kinetic scrolling sometimes decides to send the page scrolling at lightspeed :-)22:58
dantonicLOL cool thanks so much man really appreciate it22:58
lcukShadowJK, thats a bad algorythm then22:59
* RST38h spends lots of effort to AVOID kinetic scrolling in Tear now22:59
johnxdantonic, no problem. enjoy your xchat with sound effects. I'll try to hilight you as much as I can so you can enjoy them :>22:59
RST38hit's not reliable at all22:59
lcukbecause if you are still moving a certain amount and a certain speed the series of small strokes should be interpretted correctly22:59
ShadowJKRST38h, use the dpad, it's actually useful for scrolling in tear (unlike microb)22:59
* johnx applied the echowb theme and never went back22:59
ShadowJKlcuk, actually it should probably reset its algorithm on mousebutton-up event or whatever event it gets23:00
lcukRST38h, you have mentioned the badness of the kinetic there23:00
RST38hShadow: dpad is very unreliable and uncomfortable for me =(23:00
RST38hlcuk: Yea23:00
lcukon mouse up it should use the steps it has been given to "energize" the stroke you made23:00
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ShadowJKhm, I haven't experienced any reliability issues with the dpad on my N8x0... On my E70, however... :)23:00
lcuklike pushing a roundabout23:00
RST38hShadow: On E70 it simply wears out23:01
ShadowJKlcuk, oh right23:01
lcuklittle bursts shouldnt send it into orbit it should just keep it going23:01
RST38hShadow: there are no uncomfortability problems though23:01
lcuki sense though this isnt what happens outside of liqbase ;)23:01
ShadowJK:)23:01
ShadowJKoh well23:01
RST38hShadow: On N810, the dpad is a think metal band stuck right underneath the upper half of the device and lacking tactile feedback23:01
RST38hs/think/thin23:02
* ShadowJK has >1yr left on his N810's warranty :D23:02
ShadowJKYeah I have both N800 and N81023:02
lcukRST38h, im not posting in the bug topic cos its about the overall website and not specifically about talk23:02
ShadowJKthe N800 dpad is nicer to use, but I often press the back/escape key by mistake23:02
lcuki LIKE the rest of the site23:02
ShadowJKN810 dpad isn't as nice to use, but I have no problems in comfort or in using it23:02
RST38hlcuk: Yea, it is specifically about a problem with the site23:03
dantonichaha :)23:03
RST38hlcuk: For some reason the main page and the downloads page show those two promoted apps instead of actual content23:03
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RST38hlcuk: If this "feature" can somehow be argued for at the main page,  why it is done to Downloads completely escapes me23:04
lcuki dunno RST38h im not that bothered about the whole site i just dont wanna miss my posts and stuff :$23:05
dantonichey johnx what is the standard media player?  how do I find the path to that player?23:05
dantonicthe one that comes with the tablet?23:05
dantonichow would I call that player to play a sound?23:05
johnxwith dbus-send23:06
johnxbut I think it would pull up the whole GUI23:06
johnxmaybe mplayer would be best23:06
johnx<- duh, totally didn't think about mplayer23:06
RST38hlcuk: I often checked Downloads section on the old site =(23:08
RST38hlcuk: now it is hidden somewhere underneath =(23:08
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jeremiah_Installing the fremantle beta, wheee23:13
Stskeepswoo23:13
jeremiah_And after that, Mer .13!23:14
jeremiah_Or is it just 1323:14
Stskeeps0.13 i gues23:14
Stskeepss23:14
Stskeepsright now it looks like a 21.74% though (100% is day-to-day usable) :P23:14
jeremiah_So the stable version is 12?23:15
lcukawww Stskeeps @ mathematical specifics23:15
Stskeepsjeremiah_: nah, the day-to-day stable version is 1.023:16
Stskeepswe're not there yet :)23:16
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, give me a non-crap XServer and I'll up that number. ;)23:16
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: in progress :P23:17
GeneralAntillesA finger keyboard, too.23:17
Stskeepswaiting for nokia23:17
Stskeeps:P23:17
Stskeepsgive me gtk coders and i'll give you gold23:17
Stskeeps:P23:17
GeneralAntillesI demand a refund!23:17
GeneralAntillesohwait23:17
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dantonichey johnx how do you check which repository contains a program that you have installed?   is there a command for that?23:19
lcukapt-cache search [something]23:19
johnxapt-cache policy package23:19
lcukahh different23:19
johnxpolicy tells you the repo23:20
GeneralAntillesEngadget whores!23:20
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Stskeepsmm?23:20
GeneralAntillesThey picked up the beta story from Brighthand instead of my report when it came out . . .23:20
johnxhey Omegamoon :)23:20
dantonicok ty23:21
qwerty12_N800dantonic: are you using xchat 2.8.6?23:21
dantonicya23:21
GeneralAntillesI wish news sites would just link to the original announcements.23:21
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GeneralAntillesInstead of taking you through a wild ride of a half-dozen different bloggers23:21
dantonicqwerty12_N800 why did you have the same problem?23:22
qwerty12_N800dantonic: good, I have control over that build :p. i'll see i've got time to make xchat just play the sound straight & upload a new build23:22
RST38hGA: Engadget? =)23:22
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dantonicqwerty12_N800 oh great! did you read how we fixed it just now?23:23
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dantonicqwerty12_N800 would you make it use sox?23:23
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qwerty12_N800dantonic: nah, libhildon has a function for playing sounds w/out the use of an external program23:23
dantonicqwerty12_N800 what's the function? can I use it instead of sox?23:24
dantonicqwerty12_N800 how would I call it in xchat?23:24
qwerty12_N800nah, it's something I need to do23:24
dantonicok cool23:24
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dantonicu doing it right now? :P23:24
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dantonicI was wondering though... if I wanted to call the OS media player to play the file... how would I do that? where is it located?23:25
dantonichow would I call the NIT media player to play a file from the command line?23:25
jeremiah_Found a bug.23:25
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johnxdantonic, you could maybe use gstreamer23:26
johnxif you called the media player with dbus it would pop up the whole GUI23:26
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dantonicoh... but like when canola for example calls the media player.. how does it do it without the gui?23:26
johnxit's just using the gstreamer part23:27
dantonicjohnx how does that work? what's the syntax?23:27
johnxthe exact command to call is a little complicated23:27
qwerty12_N800uses the osso-media-server directly (and no, I dunno how it's done)23:27
dantonicah23:28
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dantonicman now I wanna know how it's done23:29
dantonicI'm gonna go bug the people in the canola channel23:29
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johnxdantonic, or google gstreamer command line23:31
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Omegamoonjohnx: good evening :-)23:32
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johnx:) I got a working x server ... kinda, but it's not reliable, and I ended up just going with x.org23:33
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* xnt wants to kill the idiot who made the fedora installer23:58
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xnttook me 3 HOURS  to boot back into ubuntu, it didn't find ubuntu-grub, and that crap tried  to chainload ubuntu-grub >:(23:59

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