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| Feral_Kid | I have this weird problem going on... I have tar'd my files from my flash to my mmc card. Everything seems to cp just fine. I reboot on the MMC, and although it allow for login, after a bit, it reboots... I have tried tarring the file, as well as rsync is it... On the flash side, it works just fine... | 05:18 |
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| tigert | morning | 09:52 |
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| Feral_Kid | tigert> Good morning to you as well... | 09:57 |
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| Guardian | morning all | 10:09 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:01 |
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| ArthurDentN770 | good morning | 11:15 |
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| Feral_Kid | If I am using a mmc, is there any issue with switching around the partition layout? For instance, mmc1 is the vfat partition, mmc2 is the ext2 and /dev/mmcblk0p3 is used for swap. I would rather mmc3 be used for / allowing /dev/mmcblk0p2 used for swap, making it easier for me to figure out block usage correctly... | 11:30 |
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| Feral_Kid | I keep getting this error when I try to mount my mmc card: insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko... Using /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko | 12:42 |
| Feral_Kid | insmod: cannot insert `/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko': Cannot allocate memory (-1): Cannot allocate memory | 12:42 |
| Feral_Kid | Maybe that is why I can get a clean writing of my mmc filesystem... When I boot off of the mmc, it just hangs for a bit and then reboots back to the bootmenu | 12:43 |
| Feral_Kid | Wouldn't loading a new os blow away all of the info on the flash drive? | 12:45 |
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| pahartik | Feral_Kid: are you using Linux kernel provided by Maemo 2.1? | 12:48 |
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| Feral_Kid | pahartik> I had thought about that, but I end up doing a reload of os2006-linux-2.6.16+ipv6+ext2+mmc2gb+mmcplus52Mhz-zImage, since I didn't know what the ramification of 2.1 would be... | 12:50 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: I am using that patched kernel as well... have not had real problems with MMC as "/" filesystem | 12:52 |
| Feral_Kid | Ah, I just realized that ext2 is built into the kernel... So no problems with not loading /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko... Although I am still perplexed as to why it hangs when I boot off the mmc.. | 12:53 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> And it is a a direct copy.... Although, when I do a rsync, I find that the device reboots on it's own... Can't figure out what that is all about... | 12:54 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: maybe your MMC causes I/O errors? | 12:56 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: it is broken or not fast enough? | 12:57 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> Hmmm, I haven't seen any issue with that... Prior to the latest update, it was running just fine... 1G mmc... | 12:57 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: "last update" as in "patched kernel"? | 12:58 |
| Feral_Kid | Yes, os2006-linux-2.6.16+ipv6+ext2+mmc2gb+mmcplus52Mhz-zImage | 12:59 |
| Feral_Kid | Or so it would seem... Although, like I said, I thought that with the loading of os2006-linux-2.6.16+ipv6+ext2+mmc2gb+mmcplus52Mhz-zImage, there would be a clean installing... Meaning that I would loose all of the info on the flash... | 13:00 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: have you tried reading through MMC with "dd" or "fsck" filesystem on it? | 13:04 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> Yes, fsck.ext2 is good to go... | 13:05 |
| Feral_Kid | Nokia770-26:~# fsck.ext2 /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 13:05 |
| Feral_Kid | e2fsck 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) | 13:05 |
| Feral_Kid | /dev/mmcblk0p2: clean, 17907/115200 files, 64819/230360 blocks | 13:05 |
| Feral_Kid | Although, I wonder if my making a out of block partitioning scheme, that might be causing probems | 13:06 |
| Feral_Kid | Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 31360 cylinders, 4 heads, 16 sectors/track | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | Units = cylinders of 32768 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | Device Boot Start End #cyls #blocks Id System | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | /dev/mmcblk0p1 0+ 610 611- 19544 b W95 FAT32 | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2565 31359 28795 921440 83 Linux | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | /dev/mmcblk0p3 611 2564 1954 62528 82 Linux swap | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | /dev/mmcblk0p4 0 - 0 0 0 Empty | 13:07 |
| Feral_Kid | Ok, I think what I will try next is to do a sfdisk and correct the partitioning scheme... | 13:11 |
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| pahartik | Feral_Kid: what I have is wintel partition table, 65536 blocks of swap on first partition, rest of space is taken by second partition with ext2 | 13:18 |
| Feral_Kid | Thanks, that is what I will try.... | 13:21 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> Ah, curiouser and curiouser... I just plugged in my 770 into my laptop, and although the mmc1 showed up, I got nothing from the the mmc2... | 13:26 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: but if your system reboots even during "rsync", it would sound like problem with MMC (software or hardware problem) | 13:27 |
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| florian_kc | good morning | 14:14 |
| Feral_Kid | Uuuuggggghhhh... I am really starting to hate sfdisk!!!! | 14:17 |
| mgedmin | heh | 14:19 |
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| Feral_Kid | pahartik> Have changed partition scheme and now resyncing and we shall see of there is a hardware failure... | 14:32 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: if you still have MMC problem, try Linux kernel without "MMCPlus52Mhz" patch | 14:44 |
| Feral_Kid | Will do... That was next on my game plan... | 14:46 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: what kind of MMC do you have? | 14:48 |
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| Feral_Kid | pahartik> And the official answer is... The partition tables needs to be sequential... | 15:03 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: all right, but I do not know what that means... | 15:04 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> If you look at what I had before, you will see that my partition tables was strange... | 15:05 |
| Feral_Kid | Feral_Kid> /dev/mmcblk0p1 0+ 610 611- 19544 b W95 FAT32 | 15:06 |
| Feral_Kid | <Feral_Kid> /dev/mmcblk0p2 2565 31359 28795 921440 83 Linux | 15:06 |
| Feral_Kid | <Feral_Kid> /dev/mmcblk0p3 611 2564 1954 62528 82 Linux swap | 15:06 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: I created wintel partition table for MMC with "parted" | 15:06 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> The table that you see above it done by me, because I was feeling lazy and didn't want to figure out what the proper blocks were suppose to be... Of course, that caused all sorts of problems, and if I had things properly in the beginning, everything would have been right!!! | 15:08 |
| Feral_Kid | pahartik> I finally pulled out bc to figure out what the blocks were suppose be, and then fired up fdisk and corrected it... Once that was done, everything worked like a charm... | 15:10 |
| pahartik | Feral_Kid: strange thing, but good if it helps | 15:11 |
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| rip | hey all | 17:04 |
| rip | how many people have a nokia 770 ? | 17:04 |
| Whiz | many | 17:05 |
| Whiz | :) | 17:05 |
| rip | in this chat room i mean ;) | 17:05 |
| rip | hoping to find someone who has maemo things running on the nokia 770 :D | 17:05 |
| pahartik | rip: this is "channel" | 17:06 |
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| rip | this is channel ? | 17:06 |
| pahartik | rip: ...not "chat room" | 17:07 |
| kender | pahartik, diference? | 17:08 |
| rip | so people can't chat in the Internet Relay Chat room ? :P | 17:08 |
| kender | rip, no we only share info | 17:08 |
| kender | hehe | 17:08 |
| kender | bits | 17:08 |
| Jaffa | rip: most of the people here have 770s, I'm sure. | 17:08 |
| rip | im just hoping to know if you can foward X from my Linux PC to the Nokia 770 | 17:09 |
| kender | yes rip | 17:09 |
| Jaffa | Yes | 17:09 |
| kender | you can | 17:09 |
| rip | as im in Australia and we can't exatly trot to the shop to have a squiz | 17:09 |
| rip | cool | 17:09 |
| kender | rip, look for vnc apps | 17:09 |
| rip | i just find fowarding X is pretty easy though ssh :D watch mplayer on my laptop from my main PC | 17:10 |
| kender | mm.. | 17:10 |
| rip | was hoping to do that on the 770. | 17:10 |
| rip | but I would have to chat to my mate in the Euro land to order one. | 17:11 |
| kender | http://physik.de/770/ | 17:13 |
| rip | so the nokia 770 has xorg etc installed by default ? or is all that stuff based through maemo ? | 17:15 |
| pahartik | rip: I just tried "ssh -f -X kiara xlogo"... it worked... | 17:15 |
| rip | exelent | 17:16 |
| rip | Its a pity the 770 isn't available in Australia though :( | 17:16 |
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| rip | just means i have to get my mate to order it or hunt on ebay etc. | 17:16 |
| Pierre | but is it available anywhere but online? I cannot find it in german shops for example | 17:17 |
| kender | Pierre, http://direct.nokia.com/countries.aspx | 17:17 |
| rip | I'm not sure, Ive only seen it online, and they will only post to that Country, not outside :\ | 17:18 |
| kender | Pierre, mm.. here in Spain I haven't found it | 17:18 |
| Pierre | keesj__: I mean in the shops. It looks like it is only available online | 17:18 |
| Pierre | oops | 17:18 |
| Pierre | kender: | 17:18 |
| kender | Pierre, one show assistant, tell me that they are waiting for the new one | 17:18 |
| kender | *shop | 17:19 |
| Pierre | ah ok | 17:19 |
| kender | Pierre, and...that with the 770 they haven't got so many sellings to buy more | 17:19 |
| rip | is the 770's shell bash ? or somthing else ? | 17:20 |
| kender | she tell me the prize of it when it was available, and was more expensive than online | 17:20 |
| kender | rip, yes | 17:20 |
| kender | rip, xterm | 17:20 |
| * pahartik bought Nokia 770 from local store, where they even have one available for testing to anyone who walks by | 17:20 | |
| kender | rip, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 | 17:20 |
| rip | ahh was looking for that page cheers | 17:21 |
| kender | pahartik, that sounds good :) | 17:21 |
| kender | rip, http://www.internettablettalk.com/ | 17:21 |
| pahartik | rip: by default it is "busybox" | 17:21 |
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| rip | cool cheers :) | 17:22 |
| Jaffa | Which means the shell is `ash'. bash is trivial to install if you need it, though. | 17:22 |
| kender | I think that ash is enough | 17:22 |
| Jaffa | Watching videos over SSH to the kdrive X server on the 770 might not be particularly good, though. | 17:22 |
| kender | the X server of the n770, is one big binnary only? have config file? | 17:24 |
| kender | what driver? | 17:24 |
| kender | be back later | 17:26 |
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| Guardian | anyone ever managed to use xtrace with Xephyr ? | 17:43 |
| Guardian | i'm trying to launch xtrace but it says "Error parsing xauth list data: less than three things in a line!" | 17:44 |
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| mgedmin | pahartik: what country was that? | 18:02 |
| mgedmin | I heard that you can find 770s in CompUSA shops, but almost everywhere outside the US you have to order online | 18:02 |
| Tak | yeah, I got mine @ compusa | 18:04 |
| pahartik | mgedmin: Tampere, Finland, Europe | 18:04 |
| Tak | where, incidentally, I had to ask for it specifically because there was no display | 18:04 |
| Tak | finland is in europe?! | 18:04 |
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| rip | do CompUSA deleiver outside USA ? | 18:09 |
| rip | cause the official nokia site to order the 770 wont ship outside the designated country :P | 18:11 |
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| Tak | I don't think they do | 18:13 |
| rip | hmm they sell it for 440 AUS dollars which isn't bad | 18:15 |
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| rip | where if I order from the UK it would cost about 827 Australian dollars | 18:17 |
| rip | :\ | 18:17 |
| s-ndh-c | hm i got mine for 250Euro | 18:18 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 18:18 |
| Tak | damn | 18:18 |
| s-ndh-c | but my brother works in an consumer electronic/telecommunications shop | 18:18 |
| s-ndh-c | i got for the price they got from their dealer | 18:19 |
| rip | I might get my friends husband to order one from the states for me ;) | 18:20 |
| rip | since he lives over there | 18:20 |
| Tak | yeah, was about 270 eur for me | 18:21 |
| Tak | rip: that's probably your best bet | 18:22 |
| Tak | rip: he should be able to walk into a compusa and buy one | 18:22 |
| rip | hopefully | 18:22 |
| rip | Ill shoot him an email, | 18:22 |
| rip | wonder why the massive price difference between the UK and USA ? | 18:23 |
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| Tak | vat? | 18:23 |
| rip | lol thats alot of markup with VAT | 18:23 |
| * Tak shrugs | 18:23 | |
| Tak | I'm an american, so I have no idea how that works | 18:23 |
| rip | well im in Australia and nokia won't send me squat from their online store | 18:24 |
| rip | :\ | 18:24 |
| rip | bastards | 18:24 |
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| * kender hi | 19:19 | |
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| Guardian | i'm curious about one thing: if the input method on the 770 is "just a standard gtk input method" as said on the dev list, how programs like xterm can benefit from it then ??? | 19:24 |
| Guardian | or maybe the "x terminal" app is a gtk app | 19:25 |
| Guardian | can someone please enlight me ? | 19:25 |
| nomis | Guardian: AFAIK it is a GTK+ app. | 19:26 |
| Guardian | yeah seems so, just noticed there's a menu :) | 19:26 |
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| Guardian | so basically, as far as i understand, anything that is not a gtk app is not usable on the device ? because of the lack of input method ? | 19:26 |
| Guardian | i don't even know if there is a concept of input method at the X level :/ | 19:27 |
| Tak | depending on the type of input your app takes | 19:27 |
| Tak | for instance, most games don't need that kind of input | 19:28 |
| nomis | Guardian: there is. | 19:28 |
| nomis | Guardian: the concept on the X11 level is called X Input Method (XIM) | 19:29 |
| tko | we're not using XIM | 19:30 |
| nomis | tko: yeah, but this was not the question :) | 19:30 |
| kender | any documents that explains the X server that we have on the n770? | 19:32 |
| Guardian | so if XIM is not used, why have _HILDON_IM_* messages ? (i'm reading http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/pjc51/hildon_im.txt that is mentionned in a recent dev list message) | 19:32 |
| tko | X and documentation in the same sentence! | 19:32 |
| tko | :) | 19:32 |
| Guardian | do they come from modifications added to GTK ? | 19:32 |
| kender | hehehe | 19:32 |
| kender | tko, yeh!!! | 19:32 |
| koen | kender: the maemo whitepaper? | 19:32 |
| kender | xD | 19:32 |
| freaking1ux | Guardian, it's not completely true , I have and SDL app and i can enter text if i use syngery of a bt keyboard | 19:32 |
| kender | koen, where is it? | 19:33 |
| tko | kender, kdrive :) | 19:33 |
| freaking1ux | of = or | 19:33 |
| kender | tko, I see | 19:33 |
| koen | kender: maemo.org | 19:33 |
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| tko | Guardian, custom protocol was easier to implement that xim | 19:33 |
| kender | tko, so, It is only one big binnary? | 19:33 |
| Guardian | oh ok | 19:33 |
| Guardian | so it does not use XIM, but it somehow operates at the X level | 19:34 |
| tko | Guardian, it's the protocol between the GtkIMContext module and the VKB application | 19:34 |
| tko | kender, yes | 19:34 |
| kender | koen, where? in the wiki I can't locate it | 19:34 |
| kender | tko, but the features are the sames? have it a config file? | 19:35 |
| Guardian | tko: in the end, to make things clear, can a non GTK application benefit from the virtual keyboard input ? | 19:35 |
| koen | kender: maemo.org -> about | 19:35 |
| tko | kender, not exactly. kdrive has no configuration files or dynamically loadable modules (though I think it's an option these days) - all configuration is either compile time or command line | 19:35 |
| kender | tko, yes, since 7.0 | 19:36 |
| tko | Guardian, if it implements the custom, unofficially reverse-engineered, protocol | 19:36 |
| kender | koen, thx! | 19:36 |
| kender | tko, but, if we use a bluetooth keyboard, QT apps can be used? | 19:37 |
| nomis | wow: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/microvision-unveils-tiny-projector-for-mobile-devices/ | 19:37 |
| kender | nomis, hehe | 19:38 |
| tko | kender, yes, I believe non-gtk apps need no changes to be able to use BT keyboard | 19:39 |
| kender | and, Qtopic for example, haven't developed a virtual keyboard? | 19:40 |
| kender | for QT | 19:40 |
| kender | I mean | 19:40 |
| Guardian | tko: ok, so hildon-im-module.so creates an instance of GtkIMContext that communicates with the standalone hildon-input-method application via a custom protocol implemented with the help of X11 messages | 19:40 |
| rip | what type of keyboards can you hook up to the 770? im assuming normal USB keyboards are a no-go. | 19:41 |
| kender | rip, they can go with a little hack | 19:41 |
| tko | Guardian, yep | 19:42 |
| Guardian | GTK input method stuff itself is a bit obscure, seems that there is no way to change the default input method at runtime: http://www.mail-archive.com/gtk-list@gnome.org/msg23844.html murry asked BUT the answer is just wrong | 19:42 |
| kender | rip, you can change the usb mode, to host, and with a usb hub, connect a usb keyboard | 19:42 |
| rip | sweet | 19:42 |
| Guardian | there is no such global_context_id that can be changed, the variable exists but it's static | 19:42 |
| rip | thanks | 19:42 |
| tko | Guardian, with stock gtk you can't change input methods | 19:43 |
| kender | tko, and, a virtual keyboard in the X layer? | 19:43 |
| tko | Guardian, maemo gtk has a hack which makes it halfway decently work - the right way to do it would be to hook up "gtk-im-modules" GtkSetting or similar | 19:43 |
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| tko | kender, with X layer I suppose you mean XIM? | 19:45 |
| Guardian | tko: yeah that's what i understood about stock GTK, i also found a message from owen taylor back in 2002 where he says that it would be nice but would require code --> seems that nobody needed it or really asked for it | 19:45 |
| kender | tko, yes | 19:45 |
| kender | a virtual keyboard, that sends calls to the XI;M | 19:45 |
| kender | XIM layer, and this to the app | 19:45 |
| tko | kender, if your vkb and the application in question both support XIM, then yes | 19:45 |
| tko | Guardian, yeah, switching input methods is not exactly common | 19:46 |
| kender | tko, QT and GTK doesn't support XIM? | 19:46 |
| Guardian | tko: and the hildon-input-method app itself is GTK based ? i assume yes to benefit from theming right ? | 19:46 |
| tko | kender, I'd expect them to support xim. gtk does, provided that you load the xim im module, dunno about qt | 19:47 |
| tko | Guardian, yes | 19:47 |
| kender | tko, for example, in my computer I have an app that is, gtkeyboard; this works with all kind of apps | 19:47 |
| kender | why? | 19:47 |
| kender | what method it use? | 19:47 |
| tko | kender, dunno, I'm not involved with input methods in general | 19:48 |
| kender | (I put that program as example, any other similar, will be the same) | 19:48 |
| kender | tko, oh, thanks anyway | 19:48 |
| tko | but your environment could be configured for xim, for example | 19:48 |
| tko | or the app could be sending fake keyboard events | 19:49 |
| tko | can you type arabic with the keyboard? | 19:49 |
| kender | I don't think so | 19:49 |
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| nomis | if recompiling the kernel is an option uinput would be possible as well. | 19:49 |
| tko | as I've understood it, ASCII is about trivial in vkb scope. but latin1 and chinese are more tough and pretty much require something more elaborate on protocol level | 19:50 |
| kender | tko, what driver uses the kdrive? vesa? fbdev? | 19:51 |
| tko | omap | 19:51 |
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| kender | http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive-omap | 19:55 |
| kender | this? | 19:55 |
| Guardian | tko: thx for these answeres, the recent "alternative input method" thread on the dev list really raised a lot of questions in my mind | 19:55 |
| kender | http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive-omap_6.6.3.bb | 19:56 |
| kender | I think yes | 19:56 |
| tko | kender, I don't know how closely daniels has managed to keep our xserver and upstream, but I'd expect pretty close.. no idea about openembedded | 19:58 |
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| Guardian | tko: i guess i have a last question: replacing the input method can be done in two ways 1) provide a custom GtkIMContext implementation and the associated immodule 2) impersonate the hildon-input-method app at the X level by doing reverse engineering on the custom protocol | 20:03 |
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| Guardian | tko: would option 1) be doable on a device in "user mode" through the application installer ? | 20:04 |
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| kender | what about using GPE in the n770, would be that possible? | 20:08 |
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| greentux | as far as i learned, yes. you can build a gpe openembedded image | 20:09 |
| kender | somebody has tried it? | 20:10 |
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| Guardian | hmm i have to go | 20:15 |
| kender | see you later Guardian | 20:16 |
| Guardian | tko: i guess i found my answer, from the wiki: "For example, packages are installed as root and are cabable of touching the whole system." | 20:16 |
| koen | kender: http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/ | 20:16 |
| Guardian | tko: thx again | 20:16 |
| Guardian | ++ | 20:16 |
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| kender | koen, thanks | 20:16 |
| tko | Guardian, minor correction, the GtkIMContext implementation is *in* the immodule .. it acts as a bridge between the widgets and whatever way you choose to display your equivalent of vkb - the protocol between imcontext and the 'application' is up to you | 20:16 |
| tko | and yes, with application installer you can do pretty much anything. whether you can simply drop a file in a directory or have to binary patch an existing file, that's a different question | 20:18 |
| kender | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/api/maemo-af-desktop-sdk-doc/index.html | 20:19 |
| kender | :S | 20:19 |
| kender | hildon applets doc | 20:19 |
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| Aleksandyr | before I dig any further into the docs, has anyone begun work on porting PhoneME? | 20:34 |
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| kender | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme ? | 20:36 |
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| Tak | heh | 20:37 |
| Aleksandyr | https://phoneme.dev.java.net/ :D | 20:37 |
| Tak | the oss java release | 20:37 |
| Aleksandyr | oss j2me release, more importantly --- j2me might actually work | 20:37 |
| Aleksandyr | call me...skeptical...about j2se | 20:37 |
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| kender | what about perl and hildon? | 20:48 |
| kender | is something done? | 20:49 |
| kender | python seems yes | 20:49 |
| Aleksandyr | Python + Maemo (hildon, dbus, etc) is pretty good right now | 20:52 |
| Aleksandyr | perl and hildon would have to go through wxPerl for hildon right now, not sure if the perl gtk2 bindings are up to it yet | 20:52 |
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| kender | Aleksandyr, ok, thanks | 20:56 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, and, exist something like "dialog", "xdialog", "zenity"... in maemo? | 20:58 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, not afaik, but I'd imagine the port wouldn't be too hard. | 21:00 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, and, I think, will be useful | 21:01 |
| kender | for perl, or bash (ash) application | 21:01 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, I'm not a huge fan of the zenity concept personally, but I'll fire up scratchbox and see about a quick port | 21:02 |
| kender | thanks! | 21:03 |
| Aleksandyr | np :D it'll take my mind off of not having my 770 at work | 21:03 |
| kender | is broken? | 21:03 |
| Aleksandyr | is left in charger on desk =/ | 21:03 |
| kender | hehe | 21:05 |
| Aleksandyr | my other toys have been taking up a lot of time, unfortunately | 21:06 |
| mgedmin | blasphemy! how can there be other toys besides the 770? | 21:07 |
| kender | xDD | 21:07 |
| Aleksandyr | you sir obviously do not own a Wii :D | 21:08 |
| Aleksandyr | bah, I never installed scratchbox on this machine | 21:08 |
| kender | hehehe | 21:09 |
| kender | Wii | 21:09 |
| kender | mm... WiiMote with the n770? | 21:09 |
| kender | hehe | 21:09 |
| kender | I don't know for what... | 21:09 |
| Aleksandyr | for WiiSaber | 21:10 |
| Aleksandyr | which might be the greatest application ever. I'm not sure. | 21:10 |
| Aleksandyr | the n770 would make a great bridge from the wiimote to other devices | 21:11 |
| Aleksandyr | the problem is...what other devices | 21:11 |
| Tak | it would be cool to be able to use 770 as a wiimote | 21:11 |
| Aleksandyr | well, wiimotes can store (some) data. There's potential for the 770 to serve as a wireless memory card | 21:12 |
| Tak | hmm, or a bluetooth gamepad | 21:12 |
| Tak | or even tcp/ip gamepad | 21:13 |
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| Aleksandyr | except the 770 makes a bad gamepad :D | 21:13 |
| Aleksandyr | wiimote + gnuboy/fceultra perhaps | 21:13 |
| Tak | sure, but better than nothing | 21:13 |
| kender | hehe | 21:13 |
| Aleksandyr | actually wiimote+fceultra would be perfect | 21:14 |
| Tak | fce ultra already supports bt gamepad | 21:14 |
| kender | what you think about the posibility of sharing the cam of a NSeries mobile with the n770 thought bluetooth, to have in the n770 a webcam? | 21:14 |
| Tak | sounds doable - n870's supposed to have builtin webcam | 21:15 |
| kender | yes | 21:15 |
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| Aleksandyr | Tak, yes, but wiimote's not the average bt gamepad, and I don't own an average bt gamepad :D | 21:16 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, doable although there's some data rate concern there | 21:16 |
| Tak | yeah - that would be some of the reasoning for having 770 as a bt gamepad, too | 21:16 |
| Aleksandyr | point conceded | 21:16 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, what is the band width of the bluetooth? | 21:17 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, circa a megabit in perfect conditions. | 21:17 |
| kender | enough for a bad quality transmision? | 21:18 |
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| kender | those cams aren't very good either | 21:18 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, possiblemaybeperhaps. I wouldn't put money on it | 21:19 |
| kender | hehe | 21:19 |
| kender | I have another idea too | 21:19 |
| Aleksandyr | you're talking 720kbit/second at optimal speed, and in any interference cases, you're going to get much less | 21:20 |
| kender | about, using the n770 as a drawing table for the pc, thought usb, or bluetooth | 21:20 |
| kender | what do you think about it? | 21:20 |
| Tak | now *that* would be cool | 21:20 |
| Tak | I thought about it too | 21:20 |
| Aleksandyr | there was a demo app for 2005 IIRC | 21:20 |
| kender | http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=inputpipe&btnG=BAsqueda+en+Google&meta= | 21:20 |
| Aleksandyr | pretty trivial app to write at a basic level | 21:21 |
| Aleksandyr | tricks like pressure and such would get interesting | 21:21 |
| Aleksandyr | but it's gotta be easier than VNC :D | 21:21 |
| kender | hehe | 21:21 |
| kender | I haven't got the n770 yeyt | 21:22 |
| kender | *yet | 21:22 |
| Aleksandyr | I can't honestly advocate buying one right now | 21:22 |
| Aleksandyr | what with the 870 | 21:22 |
| kender | yes | 21:22 |
| kender | that's my problem | 21:22 |
| kender | hehe | 21:22 |
| Tak | the 870 with no set release date? | 21:22 |
| kender | I'll wait till next week | 21:22 |
| kender | to see what is going on CES | 21:23 |
| kender | and, if the new nokia really interest me | 21:23 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak, on one hand yes, on the other hand 90% of my problems with the 770 are in hardware. | 21:23 |
| kender | the cam...I'm not going to use it | 21:23 |
| Aleksandyr | it's not the cam I care about, it's the attendant battery and processor improvements to make the cam useful :D | 21:23 |
| kender | but, the FCC says that the battery is the same | 21:24 |
| kender | hehe | 21:24 |
| kender | and, the price is important too | 21:24 |
| kender | of course | 21:24 |
| Tak | it's highly annoying that the 870 doesn't appear to come with the slide-on cover | 21:24 |
| kender | yes :S | 21:24 |
| Aleksandyr | I honestly dislike the cover, but that's a software issue. | 21:25 |
| Aleksandyr | brb, got to relog to fix my groups | 21:26 |
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| kender | Aleksandyr, better CPU or RAM? | 21:26 |
| kender | lol | 21:27 |
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| Aleksandyr | alright, let's get zenity working | 21:31 |
| kender | <-- Aleksandyr has quit ("leaving") | 21:32 |
| kender | <kender> Aleksandyr, better CPU or RAM? | 21:32 |
| kender | in the 870 I mean | 21:32 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm presuming a better CPU if they're doing more video-centric work | 21:33 |
| Aleksandyr | total speculation on my part. | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | I think the 870 has more onboard flash, but the same amount of RAM | 21:33 |
| kender | but, what do you like? | 21:33 |
| kender | mgedmin, yes, but, CPU? | 21:33 |
| kender | hehe | 21:33 |
| Aleksandyr | really I'd like to see twice the ram and a 333mhz CPU. | 21:34 |
| Aleksandyr | I'd take the CPU first. | 21:34 |
| Tak | yes, more cpu uber alles | 21:34 |
| freaking1ux | I don't really understand why there is not more ram | 21:34 |
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| freaking1ux | is it a price issue? | 21:35 |
| Aleksandyr | yeah, it's not cheap, and there's probably space concerns as well | 21:35 |
| Aleksandyr | CPU = price+battery, RAM = price+space. | 21:35 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, but, there are some PDA's that have so mush RAM and CPU in the same space | 21:35 |
| kender | the price...well, ok, expensive | 21:36 |
| kender | hehe | 21:36 |
| tko | you guys forgot power consumption :) | 21:36 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, I totally covered that one ;) | 21:36 |
| kender | better battery? | 21:36 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, but not the same screen. | 21:36 |
| kender | yes, true | 21:36 |
| kender | hehe | 21:36 |
| Aleksandyr | for all the other flaws the screen is effing gorgeous. | 21:36 |
| tko | Aleksandyr, I meant the CPU=price+batter(+power consumption) | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 21:36 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, but, for example, the PSP | 21:37 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, ahh, when I meant battery, I meant it required more battery power | 21:37 |
| freaking1ux | yes it's the screen that makes the nokia stand out | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | I remember reading online that the 770 has a gorgeous screen | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | and then I saw it and was disappointed | 21:37 |
| kender | has, a gorgeous screen, good battery, and...wifi | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | it's grainy, and has little dots in all the colours of the rainbow when it should show plain white | 21:37 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, the PSP has similarish specs. Battery life compared to the n770 is a joke. I own both (and a DS.) | 21:37 |
| Tak | I wasn't disappointed at all | 21:37 |
| Tak | people fall over when I show them LOTR playing on it | 21:38 |
| Aleksandyr | mgedmin, I've noticed the same problem with the white, but I rarely have a largely white screen. | 21:38 |
| mgedmin | but the resolution is incredible | 21:38 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, sorter? | 21:38 |
| Aleksandyr | sorter? | 21:38 |
| kender | mm.. | 21:38 |
| kender | smaller battery? | 21:39 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, sorry my english :\ | 21:39 |
| kender | I'm learning | 21:39 |
| kender | hehe | 21:39 |
| Tak | shorter | 21:39 |
| kender | yes | 21:39 |
| kender | that's | 21:39 |
| kender | ;-) | 21:39 |
| kender | " Battery life compared to the n770 is a joke. " | 21:40 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, no worries, and yes, that's what I mean | 21:40 |
| Aleksandyr | it is apples and oranges as the PSP has much better DSP and acceleration | 21:40 |
| Tak | kender: your english is WAY better than my spanish | 21:40 |
| kender | Tak, hehe | 21:40 |
| * Aleksandyr could MAYBE stumble through this conversation in french, but that's it. | 21:40 | |
| kender | Tak, no te he visto escribir en castellano :P | 21:40 |
| Aleksandyr | all I got out of that was | 21:41 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak, *************************** | 21:41 |
| kender | hehe | 21:41 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm not 100% confident about the "Tak" part either :D | 21:41 |
| Tak | yo no escribo en castellano porque mi castellano es muy mal | 21:41 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, you know spanish? | 21:41 |
| kender | do you..* | 21:41 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, not even a litle | 21:42 |
| mgedmin | ha, I got more: "Tak, ************************************* :P" | 21:42 |
| tko | well, with 770 there's not much cpu, nor much memory, but what kills you is the lack of memory bandwidth :-/ | 21:42 |
| Tak | tambien mi espanol es mas del mundo nuevo | 21:42 |
| kender | Tak, no tanto :P | 21:42 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm guessing Tak said something like "don't write in spanish because my spanish is very bad" | 21:42 |
| Tak | yes | 21:42 |
| kender | tko, bandwidth? | 21:42 |
| Aleksandyr | something about the new year? | 21:42 |
| Tak | new world | 21:42 |
| Aleksandyr | err world? | 21:42 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, no, I undertand that he said, "my spanish is poorer than your english" | 21:43 |
| Aleksandyr | this is why I don't speak spanish, because I can't :D | 21:43 |
| kender | speak?! | 21:43 |
| kender | no thanks" | 21:43 |
| kender | hehehe | 21:43 |
| suihkulokki | uno cerveza por favor | 21:43 |
| Aleksandyr | now THAT I understand | 21:43 |
| Tak | je ne parles-pas francais | 21:43 |
| kender | marchando una cerveza suihkulokki ! | 21:43 |
| tko | kender, copying stuff to/from memory is relatively slow | 21:43 |
| Tak | y io non capisco l'italiano | 21:44 |
| Aleksandyr | je parle un peu de francais, mais je n'ai attendre la francais a cinq ans | 21:44 |
| kender | Tak, jur | 21:44 |
| Tak | I would think that you'd speak more than a little french after five years | 21:44 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, agreed, and the 770 will never be a gaming machine | 21:44 |
| kender | where are YOU from? | 21:44 |
| Aleksandyr | Tak, I was going for "I speak a little french, but I have not studied it in five years" | 21:45 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, I don't want a gaming machine :P | 21:45 |
| Tak | ah | 21:45 |
| Tak | my misguess then :-P | 21:45 |
| tko | Aleksandyr, depends on game type | 21:45 |
| Tak | it's great for SCUMM | 21:45 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, conventional definition of gaming machine ;) mahjongg rocks. | 21:45 |
| Aleksandyr | gaming machine in the sense of handheld console | 21:45 |
| kender | xjump port? | 21:45 |
| kender | hehe | 21:45 |
| Tak | mediocre for fceu | 21:45 |
| Aleksandyr | a faster CPU would mitigate a few of the other problems, and at 333mhz the memory bandwidth issues are still secondary, IMNHO. | 21:46 |
| kender | mm... sdljump exists, the port can't be so difficult | 21:46 |
| suihkulokki | a gaming machine should have a proper rocker, right hand and shoulder buttons. | 21:46 |
| Aleksandyr | I say this with only some basic practical work in system design and theory | 21:46 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, IMNHO! | 21:46 |
| Aleksandyr | In My Never Humble Opinion (I try to be honest :D) | 21:46 |
| kender | hehehe | 21:46 |
| suihkulokki | otoh for adventure/strategy touchscreen works better | 21:46 |
| Aleksandyr | something in the vein of Advance Wars would work nicely | 21:47 |
| Aleksandyr | or Fire Emblem. | 21:47 |
| kender | I understand -> In My Not Humild Opinion | 21:47 |
| Aleksandyr | honestly any turn based strategy game could really rock. | 21:47 |
| Aleksandyr | but...my PSP now plays Final Fantasy Tactics...so yeah. | 21:47 |
| Tak | heh, rev plays advance wars using vba iirc | 21:47 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, the browser of the PSP, is good? | 21:48 |
| tko | Aleksandyr, faster cpu won't help a bit if you're waiting for memory access | 21:48 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, it's a little underpowered relative to the 770, and input is awkward | 21:48 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, my load numbers are too high for CPU to be a nonissue | 21:48 |
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| Aleksandyr | I'm not saying we need MUCH more, but some would go a long way. | 21:49 |
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| Aleksandyr | kender, the big advantage of the PSP browser is that there are more PSP users than 770 users. | 21:50 |
| Aleksandyr | then again, PSP-centric interfaces tend to work fine on the 770. | 21:50 |
| kender | hehe | 21:50 |
| tko | heh: http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/global-warming-swimwear.jpg | 21:53 |
| Tak | hehe | 21:53 |
| kender | lol | 21:53 |
| tko | seems pretty conclusive to me... | 21:54 |
| Tak | should have made 2000 a g-string | 21:54 |
| Aleksandyr | haha | 21:54 |
| Tak | or nothing | 21:54 |
| kender | Tak, xD | 21:54 |
| Aleksandyr | http://www.thefunniest.info/top.html | 21:54 |
| Guardian | re | 21:54 |
| kender | hi Guardian | 21:55 |
| kender | <-- Guardian has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | 21:55 |
| kender | <kender> koen, thanks | 21:55 |
| kender | <tko> Guardian, minor correction, the GtkIMContext implementation is *in* the immodule .. it acts as a bridge between the widgets and whatever way you choose to display your equivalent of vkb - the protocol between imcontext and the 'application' is up to you | 21:55 |
| kender | <tko> and yes, with application installer you can do pretty much anything. whether you can simply drop a file in a directory or have to binary patch an existing file, that's a different question | 21:55 |
| Guardian | oh thx | 21:55 |
| Tak | heh, the xkcd check is classic | 21:55 |
| kender | xkcd? | 21:56 |
| Guardian | tko: is it to keep a single instance of the vkb app for all the apps that you decided to do things like they're done: 1 hildon-input-method executable talking to many GtkIMContext instances (afaik 1 per text widget) via X messages ? | 21:57 |
| Aleksandyr | xkcd: a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language. | 21:57 |
| Aleksandyr | it's geek humor, which is why I love it | 21:57 |
| Aleksandyr | thefunniest.info is run by xkcd actually :D | 21:57 |
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| kender | Aleksandyr, where are you from? | 21:59 |
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| Tak | Aleksandyr: I guessed that by the favicon | 22:00 |
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| tko | Guardian, that's one reason. another one is 3rd party closed source handwriting and word prediction engines | 22:01 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, Cambridge, MA, USA | 22:01 |
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| kender | Aleksandyr, ok :) | 22:02 |
| tko | Tak, the check must've been fun indeed | 22:03 |
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| Guard][an | pff, my isp just sucks these days :( | 22:05 |
| tko | Tak, the flash photo is pretty good too :) | 22:05 |
| Guard][an | any reply while during the ping timeout event ? :/ | 22:06 |
| tko | rofl @ xkcd microsoft | 22:06 |
| kender | <tko> Guardian, that's one reason. another one is 3rd party closed source handwriting and word prediction engines | 22:07 |
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| Guard][an | haha kender, thx so much | 22:07 |
| kender | Guard][an, you are welcome | 22:08 |
| Guard][an | tko: license issue ? like if you directly use the handwriting engine in the GtkIMContext implementation you have to open the source ? | 22:08 |
| tko | hmm, yeah. I have all quits and other noise disabled :) | 22:08 |
| tko | Guard][an, yep | 22:09 |
| tko | well, or stop distributing | 22:09 |
| Guard][an | interresting | 22:10 |
| Guard][an | i don't know much about license issues | 22:10 |
| ssvb | Alexandyr: tko is most likely right about memory bandwidth limiting performance, according to benchmark from this thread, Nokia 770 beats up 400MHz XScale cpu (but with slower memory) in decoding video: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22280 | 22:10 |
| tko | ssvb, I've learned a thing or two while working for nokia :) | 22:11 |
| Aleksandyr | ssvb & tko, I'm talking about computationally intensive (jamvm/fceultra) and probably sub-optimized apps, not so much media. I think mplayer has proved the 770's fine on that front :D | 22:13 |
| Aleksandyr | then again, working for Intel taught me the "throw more cache at it" way of "solving" memory bandwidth issues ;) | 22:13 |
| tko | all performance problems can be solved by throwing more hardware at it, right? :) | 22:14 |
| tko | Aleksandyr, depends on your cpu/memory access profile .. only cpu bound stuff benefits from more cpu :-/ | 22:16 |
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| Aleksandyr | tko, true: the CPU bound stuff is what's annoying me right now, but it looks solvable | 22:16 |
| Tak | biggest problem with fceu is the sound engine | 22:17 |
| Tak | it could do with being unfucked | 22:17 |
| tko | more cpu helps some, more memory helps others, more memory bandwidth helps everyone (or it seems so to me) :) | 22:17 |
| Aleksandyr | more cpu means I can stop banging my head against PhoneME and just patch up JamVM :D | 22:18 |
| tko | Aleksandyr, don't use so much cpu :) | 22:18 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, working on it. Just rather slowly ;) | 22:19 |
| ssvb | Alexandyr: does this java VM use JIT? | 22:20 |
| Aleksandyr | ssvb, JamVM does not, which is why I've abandoned it as a solution. PhoneME supposedly does | 22:21 |
| Aleksandyr | JamVM was useful in proving that it's -possible- to get Java running, but so far, that's it. | 22:21 |
| Aleksandyr | kender, no, I haven't forgotten about zenity ;) | 22:23 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, hehehe, don't worry | 22:23 |
| kender | I'm learing a lot today | 22:23 |
| florian_kc | bbl | 22:24 |
| Aleksandyr | I'm kind of wishing I sat in #maemo earlier | 22:24 |
| kender | hehe | 22:24 |
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| tko | I'm kind of wishing someone would pay more attention to the channel and collect and refine the information flowing here into a document(s) of sorts | 22:26 |
| tko | there's quite a bit of information that never gets written down | 22:26 |
| kender | tko, true | 22:27 |
| kender | hehe | 22:27 |
| Aleksandyr | tko, agreed. | 22:27 |
| kender | mm... | 22:27 |
| kender | and, what about putting a bot | 22:27 |
| Aleksandyr | and furthermore | 22:27 |
| Aleksandyr | <-- not it | 22:27 |
| kender | add save everything to a we? | 22:27 |
| kender | *web | 22:27 |
| tko | kender, difficult to read if you weren't part of the discussion | 22:28 |
| mgedmin | kender: https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | 22:28 |
| kender | tko, yes, but...is a place where you can find something | 22:28 |
| tko | difficult to find anything etc. | 22:28 |
| kender | yes, I understand | 22:28 |
| kender | but, who has time to do all that job? | 22:29 |
| kender | hehe | 22:29 |
| kender | what about putting in the wiki info about the channel | 22:31 |
| kender | and the logs? | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | +1 | 22:32 |
| kender | If you run into trouble, check the [WWW] Official Maemo FAQ and then [WWW] Developer FAQ and then offcourse you have the [WWW] developer mailing lists ([WWW] Searchable Archive), and yes you also have the IRC channel #maemo at [WWW] freenode.net | 22:32 |
| kender | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ | 22:33 |
| kender | under Developers | 22:33 |
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| kender | very little | 22:33 |
| kender | xD | 22:33 |
| Aleksandyr | a | 22:33 |
| kender | I'll put the logs page | 22:34 |
| tko | that's not what I meant, really. I'm wishing there was someone taking all the important rambling on this channel and turning it into useful documents | 22:34 |
| * Tak burns the rest of the afternoon voting on thefunniest.info | 22:34 | |
| Aleksandyr | Tak, been there done that | 22:34 |
| kender | tko, yes, I understand it | 22:35 |
| kender | but, who will do that? | 22:35 |
| Aleksandyr | sounds like a paid Nokia position...community rep or something on that order? | 22:36 |
| tko | sounds like a community member position, supporting the community | 22:37 |
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| freaking1ux | thefunniest.info -> time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time | 22:37 |
| tko | (that kind of position would be pretty hard to sell for nokia) | 22:37 |
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| Aleksandyr | tko, yeah | 22:38 |
| Aleksandyr | ...zenity is a disturbingly complicated entity. | 22:39 |
| kender | Aleksandyr, yes? | 22:40 |
| kender | :S | 22:40 |
| kender | added the logs page to the wiki... | 22:40 |
| Aleksandyr | it's also ignoring configure directives. | 22:41 |
| kender | BBL | 22:43 |
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| tko | "Northbound passengers: please do not board southbound buses" | 23:02 |
| ||cw | yeay I managed to install debian onto a HP network scanjet 5 | 23:03 |
| tko | http://thefairest.info/top.html is pretty cool too | 23:08 |
| Aleksandyr | http://thecutest.info/top.html is obnoxiously adorable :D | 23:08 |
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| tko | heh, I need to choose between one picture.. I wonder if I should take a screenshot and submit that :) | 23:13 |
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| Tak | I've seen plenty of those | 23:26 |
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