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| spx2-away | Pio , why you banned me bro ? whyd i ever do to you ? dont leave | 03:27 |
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| Aleksandyr | so, uh, the N800 pictures. Not to mention the nice box. | 04:01 |
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| jtokash | I assume you already saw these photos of the n800, right? | 07:37 |
| jtokash | http://www.ringnokia.com/2007/01/nokia_n800_inte.html | 07:37 |
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| myren | driving me nuts we still have no idea what the n800 is actually going to be | 08:38 |
| myren | there's a Crown coming out that looks to be a decent contendor | 08:39 |
| wall | 880? | 08:39 |
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| desrt | mmm. hypothetical 770 followup gossip. yummy :) | 08:43 |
| desrt | oh. pictures. that's somewhat less than hypothetical :) | 08:44 |
| jtokash | Some thoughts on the photos and a size comparison: http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-in-the-flesh-an-update-to-the-nokia-770-internet-tablet/ | 08:59 |
| jtokash | seems longer, but not as tall. No good images to do thickness comparison, but it looks like similar thickness. | 09:00 |
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| keesj | Morning | 09:33 |
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| jtokash | morning keesj | 09:47 |
| jtokash | New nokia n800 photos: http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-in-the-flesh-an-update-to-the-nokia-770-internet-tablet/ | 09:47 |
| keesj | 640×480 ? I can't believe that | 09:49 |
| keesj | o that is the webcam , hot news that is :) | 09:49 |
| jtokash | well, it says VGA, so I assumed 640x480 | 09:50 |
| jtokash | The webcam isn't enough for me to upgrade, so I guess it's down to computing power. | 09:51 |
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| jtokash | although the new placement for the jacks is great | 09:51 |
| keesj | Browser Compatibility with Google Video, YouTube. sounds pretty dam good | 09:52 |
| jtokash | I always hated the 770 having the jacks on the bottom | 09:52 |
| jtokash | nono - that's my wish | 09:52 |
| jtokash | not fact | 09:52 |
| jtokash | but, yes, youtube would be a big step up. | 09:52 |
| jtokash | And if it can do youtube, it can do fl0w. | 09:52 |
| keesj | I can only hope it will attract more developers , that is my real wish | 09:54 |
| jtokash | True. If it maintains compatability with the 770, which I'm sure it will, developers will see it as a platform that's here for the long haul | 09:56 |
| keesj | I guess compatability might be hard but if there is a build system that can build for the different targets I guess that's ok by me | 09:57 |
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| keesj | bwt is readermini a gwt app or not? | 10:04 |
| keesj | I have a great time developing gwt apps it really work great | 10:04 |
| keesj | works | 10:04 |
| jtokash | I'm using php | 10:05 |
| jtokash | for ajax, just prototype.js | 10:06 |
| jtokash | GWT intrigues me, but the whole compiling js from java thing bothers me | 10:06 |
| jtokash | Is it difficult to create new AJAX / DHTML controls? | 10:06 |
| jtokash | Do you write that code in js or java? | 10:06 |
| keesj | that is really what I love, I can really develop in OO and it just works | 10:07 |
| jtokash | awesome | 10:07 |
| jtokash | I'll give it a shot next time I have a project to do | 10:07 |
| keesj | I did so weird stuff with collections and filtering ,updating labels etc just works | 10:08 |
| keesj | and it's really open source now | 10:11 |
| keesj | but anyway good to see that there is some continuation in the development. I would try not to spread that news to much | 10:14 |
| keesj | perhaps nokia want to first update the maemo site or other stuff that might increase the effect the device will have no developers | 10:15 |
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| jtokash | Goodnight everyone, time to go home | 10:29 |
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| Guardian | morning | 10:36 |
| keesj | Hi | 10:47 |
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| qgil | morning | 11:24 |
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| MDK | heh | 12:41 |
| MDK | gee, what's happening with weather here | 12:50 |
| MDK | +7C | 12:50 |
| MDK | qgil: don't buy this crap they say about "serious finnish winter" ;) | 12:51 |
| tko | I blame global warming: http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/global-warming-swimwear.jpg :) | 12:53 |
| tko | (first christmas I can remember without snow...) | 12:53 |
| MDK | he | 12:56 |
| MDK | yeah, it's pretty scrary | 12:56 |
| MDK | the grass is totally green in places | 12:56 |
| MDK | the late & strong winter will hit the plants/crops seriously | 12:56 |
| tko | I saw somewhere people were still playing golf | 12:58 |
| MDK | heh | 12:59 |
| MDK | let's go surfing in ruholahti | 12:59 |
| tko | k. you go first :) | 13:01 |
| MDK | oh, today is some kind of holiday? | 13:03 |
| zuh | It's the browser day, you need to surf the net all day | 13:04 |
| zuh | (epiphany) | 13:05 |
| MDK | heh | 13:06 |
| Jaffa | Blimey, the N800's black theme is nice. | 13:11 |
| tko | uhh.. I used to play super mario 3 a lot, but this guy is crazy: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5867384132598818142&q=soramimi | 13:17 |
| tko | though I think the word I'm looking for is 'inhuman' :) | 13:21 |
| JussiP | Or "tool-assisted". | 13:24 |
| tko | details, schmetails | 13:25 |
| JussiP | The fastest game played on the original hardware is here: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario3.html | 13:26 |
| roope | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7423603596413693402 I personally like these Quake nightmare speed runs. | 13:27 |
| roope | Some of the levels are just incredible. | 13:27 |
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| tko | bugger, we didn't get mentioned in lwn.net year 2007 predictions :-) | 14:47 |
| keesj | :) | 14:48 |
| keesj | in 12 month you will perhaps become the "surprise of 2007" | 14:49 |
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| kender | nobody tells nothing about the N800? | 14:59 |
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| keesj | old news :) | 15:11 |
| keesj | how about you? | 15:12 |
| kender | keesj, old news? | 15:14 |
| kender | http://www.ringnokia.com/2007/01/nokia_n800_inte.html | 15:14 |
| keesj | I saw the blog post this morning (a few hours ago) | 15:14 |
| kender | jur | 15:14 |
| kender | and, that's old? | 15:14 |
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| suihkulokki | heh | 15:15 |
| glass_ | huh, nice | 15:17 |
| qgil | nice box | 15:18 |
| kender | http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-in-the-flesh-an-update-to-the-nokia-770-internet-tablet/ | 15:18 |
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| kender | BBL | 15:19 |
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| keesj | http://www.nokia.com/ still thinks its Christma :) | 15:21 |
| pahartik | keesj: but it is... until tomorrow :) | 15:26 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, as in Dirk-Jan C. Binnema? | 15:33 |
| pvanhoof | or Rupert? :) | 15:33 |
| djcb | c'est moi | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | ah, et qui et toi? | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | est | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | s vergeten :) | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | es zelfs | 15:34 |
| keesj | suis es est | 15:35 |
| pvanhoof | ok, it's "est" | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | I should use my french more often :) | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, if it's you, Dirk-Jan, I'm working on your partial message retrieval functionality | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | it's already getting the message without attachments and writing it to the imap-cache | 15:37 |
| djcb | not "your", "our"! | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | but not yet correctly, because it atm fails to detect the boundary | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | I tried reusing the existing content-type parser of camel | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | on the line | 15:37 |
| djcb | ah | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | the Content-Type: Line | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | and that didn't work, it seems | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | so I had a fail situation where it simply cats the parts together | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | and that is what its writing atm | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | now | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | Camel has this neat feature in its cache | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | that allows to have multiple files for one message | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | in the format of uid.PART_SPEC | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | for example, 5.HEADER 5.TEXT, 5.1 5.1.HEADER | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | however, that results in multiple CamelStream instances (FsStreams) | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | and to get that working | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | I would have to create a CamelStream that wraps more than one stream to one big stream | 15:39 |
| djcb | aha | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | to feed that to the Stream that is used to create the CamelWrapper which is in turn used to create the CamelMimeMessage | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | am I speaking chineese? :) | 15:40 |
| pvanhoof | rereading my own stuff makes me think that :) | 15:40 |
| djcb | well, let me try to parse it | 15:40 |
| pvanhoof | so | 15:40 |
| pvanhoof | I'll try to explain what camel does | 15:40 |
| pvanhoof | it of course gets the data from the imap service | 15:40 |
| pvanhoof | then it parses that into a buffer | 15:40 |
| djcb | yes, i understand your writing now... | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | that buffer gets put in a file stream on the file name uid + dot + part_spec | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | a part_spec is the BODY.SEEK[part_spec] | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | for example UID FETCH uid BODY.PEEK[1] | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | that would result in a file called uid.1 | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | UID FETCH 5 BODY.PEEK[HEADER], that would become 5.HEADER | 15:42 |
| pvanhoof | however, that would be useful if I would have a way to turn multiple files into one stream | 15:42 |
| pvanhoof | because the data-wrapper object, which is like a real in a proxy pattern, which is used by CamelMimeMessage | 15:42 |
| pvanhoof | is basically a wrapper for a filestream | 15:42 |
| djcb | yes | 15:43 |
| pvanhoof | so I could do it how I'm doing it now, that is .. rewrite the "5." file | 15:43 |
| pvanhoof | because, if there's no part_spec, then this for camel means that the entire file is the entire message | 15:43 |
| pvanhoof | for that I need to put the boundary in between each part, of course | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | IF it's a multi-part | 15:44 |
| djcb | aha yes | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | and that changes the message itself, actually | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | because who knows how to message really looked like on the imap service | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | with or without the boundary | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | it would be wrong without, but actually .. that's not up to me (the email client) to decide about | 15:44 |
| djcb | hmmm.... that could be problematic | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | however, from the user perspective .. it's just for displaying the message | 15:45 |
| djcb | so... the imap server understands the mime-parts | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | if he wants the entire message, we can use the non-partial strategy to fully get it | 15:45 |
| djcb | separately | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | yes, imap has a notion of parts | 15:45 |
| djcb | but the if we do the sum of the parts | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | UID FETCH uid BODY[part] | 15:46 |
| djcb | that may not be exactly the same | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | yes if I ask for everything, like this: | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | UID FETCH uid BODY[] | 15:46 |
| djcb | sure | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | then I get the boundaries inbetween the parts | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | if I do it like this: | 15:46 |
| djcb | but would it be different in any meaningful way? | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | UID FETCH uid BODY[HEADER] | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | UID FETCH uid BODY[1.HEADER] | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | UID FETCH uid BODY[1] | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | I don't get the boundaries | 15:46 |
| djcb | i mean, the content of the stuff we get from the server should be the same | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | but in the first I of course get the boundary in the headers of the message | 15:47 |
| pvanhoof | well the only difference is that I programatically write the boundary | 15:47 |
| djcb | and the mime part endings/beginnings are just markers for computer programs | 15:47 |
| pvanhoof | whereas in reality, the e-mail client that wrote the e-mail did that | 15:47 |
| pvanhoof | yes | 15:47 |
| pvanhoof | they are just markers indeed | 15:48 |
| pvanhoof | and if incorrect, the E-mail is fuckt | 15:48 |
| djcb | so if they are not really the same... well. | 15:48 |
| djcb | well, not really. the user reads the same message | 15:48 |
| pvanhoof | well under normal circumstances they will really be the same | 15:48 |
| djcb | and does not care about the mime-stuff | 15:48 |
| pvanhoof | the same bytes etc etc | 15:48 |
| pvanhoof | but if the E-mail client who wrote the E-mail did it incorrect | 15:48 |
| djcb | in that case, | 15:48 |
| pvanhoof | then it will no longer be incorrect | 15:48 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 15:48 |
| djcb | the imap server will not get it right either, will it? | 15:49 |
| pvanhoof | and that is in itself incorrect to do for tinymail | 15:49 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 15:49 |
| pvanhoof | hmm, questionable | 15:49 |
| djcb | so, we trust the imap-server. | 15:49 |
| djcb | i think that is correct behaviour | 15:49 |
| pvanhoof | I don't think there is a spec for incorrect messages on the IMAP server | 15:49 |
| djcb | in this case | 15:49 |
| pvanhoof | I think the IMAP will simply look at it as if it's a non multi-part E-mail | 15:49 |
| djcb | well, if we get parts 1-5 from the imap server | 15:49 |
| djcb | then there are 1-5 parts | 15:50 |
| djcb | right | 15:50 |
| pvanhoof | yes | 15:50 |
| pvanhoof | well, we are already altering the message by only partially fetching it anyway | 15:50 |
| djcb | if the imap server did not get it, the partial download will not work | 15:50 |
| pvanhoof | correct | 15:50 |
| djcb | tough luck | 15:50 |
| djcb | but it's really a corner case i think, i someone sends b0rked messages | 15:51 |
| djcb | that is what you get | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | right | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | I need to lookup how a non multi-parts should look | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | because | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | hmm | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | a non multipart shouldn't be fetched partially | 15:51 |
| pvanhoof | doesn't matter whether or not the developer turned on partial message retrieval | 15:52 |
| pvanhoof | because there's only one part anyway | 15:52 |
| pvanhoof | ok, so atm it's not yet like that. But I detect whether or not a message is a multi-part from the content-info | 15:52 |
| pvanhoof | and if multi-part and the developer picked the strategy for partial retrieval | 15:52 |
| pvanhoof | then I will only get the parts HEADER, 1.HEADER and 1 | 15:53 |
| pvanhoof | if unsure, djcb , lookup what these parts mean in the IMAP rfc :) | 15:53 |
| djcb | well there are basically three interesting ways: | 15:53 |
| pvanhoof | because that is what you will get | 15:53 |
| djcb | 1) header-only, 2) header + body 3) header + body + attachments | 15:53 |
| pvanhoof | right, HEADER only , for that I (camel) use(s) UID FETCH %s (FLAGS, etc etc) | 15:54 |
| pvanhoof | so it doesn't even touch the BODY for that | 15:54 |
| djcb | some impls i have seen have partial download of message text, but that is not *that* useful me thinks | 15:54 |
| pvanhoof | only a part of the text? | 15:54 |
| djcb | yup; it's downloaded as you scroll down | 15:54 |
| pvanhoof | that's overkill | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | maybe for a device with less than 1 mb | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | but that device ain't going to run gobject and glib | 15:55 |
| djcb | (btw, easily to fake for demonstrations -- slow down the scrolling at put up a 'downloading' banner ;-) | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | hehe | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | tinymail is not a fake demonstration! it's the real thing :) | 15:55 |
| djcb | well, there's are also people who keep themselves busy with useless features | 15:56 |
| djcb | true | 15:56 |
| pvanhoof | also, camel is not suited to do this type of things | 15:56 |
| pvanhoof | that would mean that I would have to implement a CamelImapMimePart | 15:56 |
| pvanhoof | because that part would not be offline anymore | 15:56 |
| pvanhoof | all of the mime-part handling of Camel is, at least more or less, provider neutral | 15:57 |
| pvanhoof | and offline | 15:57 |
| djcb | yeah | 15:57 |
| djcb | so let's be happy we don't want to do that | 15:57 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 15:57 |
| pvanhoof | indeed | 15:57 |
| * MDK wonders what's the difference between arm and arm26 arch | 15:57 | |
| pvanhoof | '2' and '6' | 15:57 |
| pvanhoof | they added two bytes to the memory that holds the version? :) | 15:58 |
| MDK | heh | 15:58 |
| pvanhoof | hows your D adventure going MDK ? :) I mean on the Nokia 770 | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, so I will try to squeeze that boundary out of the HEADER part :) | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | and I will write that like this | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | file 1. = { HEADER boundary 1.HEADER 1 boundary } | 16:00 |
| pvanhoof | Let me check whether that's how it should be written .. | 16:00 |
| suihkulokki | MDK: the original arm was 26bit memory bus | 16:00 |
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| pvanhoof | Note sure about the last boundary | 16:01 |
| djcb | MDK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture | 16:01 |
| pvanhoof | funny | 16:02 |
| pvanhoof | I bought two Philips wireless headphones | 16:02 |
| pvanhoof | one said on the box: surround etc etc | 16:02 |
| pvanhoof | the other said something about bass boost | 16:02 |
| pvanhoof | both are exactly the same | 16:02 |
| pvanhoof | same number, same features, exactly the same sound | 16:03 |
| pvanhoof | same base stations etc etc | 16:03 |
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| pvanhoof | same internals (you can look at them if you swap batteries) | 16:03 |
| djcb | same price? | 16:03 |
| pvanhoof | yes lucky me | 16:03 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 16:03 |
| djcb | it's all marketing man :) | 16:03 |
| pvanhoof | yep | 16:03 |
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| pvanhoof | another funny thingy is that those guys at the store where I bought it (I had one defect headphone) | 16:04 |
| pvanhoof | simply payed it back, in cash | 16:04 |
| pvanhoof | and didn't give me a credit note | 16:05 |
| pvanhoof | yet I got a third invoice for the new working headphone | 16:05 |
| pvanhoof | don't know what my accountant is going to say about that :) | 16:05 |
| MDK | suihkulokki: ah, thanks | 16:05 |
| pvanhoof | "a credit note, what is that" asked the dude | 16:05 |
| MDK | pvanhoof: building a reliable self-sustained build system for the complete toolchain now | 16:06 |
| pvanhoof | I tried to explain, so he told me .. oh, can you come back when .. bla bla | 16:06 |
| pvanhoof | MDK, cool | 16:06 |
| pvanhoof | well, I'm atm working on features for djcb :), else I would be helping you right now | 16:06 |
| pvanhoof | crap, because I mentioned the headphones .. I started listening to this elektro switch cd. and now I'm addicted to this song | 16:08 |
| MDK | the gtk-d bindings (duit) don't look very good at first sight though | 16:08 |
| pvanhoof | (oh, "Switch" is a Belgian radio show on studio brussels) | 16:08 |
| pvanhoof | MDK, imho they should create a compiler plugin that recognizes GObject and GTypeInterface as class and interface in D | 16:09 |
| pvanhoof | and forget about such bindings | 16:09 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 16:09 |
| MDK | pvanhoof: yeah, I know. But that's... hell of work | 16:09 |
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| pvanhoof | I haven't looked at the compiler structs for types like interfaces and classes | 16:10 |
| pvanhoof | so I don't know (nor am I a compiler specialist) | 16:10 |
| MDK | yeah | 16:11 |
| *** Veggen has quit IRC | 16:11 | |
| pvanhoof | well, I could write "yet" now. But I'm uncertain if compilers interest me | 16:11 |
| MDK | my knowledge about compilers orbits around zero too | 16:11 |
| djcb | would it not be easier to generate proxy classes on the fly for GObject using introspection? | 16:11 |
| pvanhoof | it's still going to be proxies, right | 16:11 |
| pvanhoof | what about GTypeInterface | 16:11 |
| pvanhoof | you can't proxy that and keep multiple implements for interfaces | 16:12 |
| *** Veggen has joined #maemo | 16:12 | |
| pvanhoof | unless you adopt multiple inheritance, as in C++, which is .. well. no don't do that | 16:12 |
| pvanhoof | then a compiler plugin is better :) | 16:12 |
| MDK | my current thinking is to write a API parser to generet GObject bindings in ruby | 16:12 |
| MDK | like GAPI parser | 16:12 |
| djcb | well D does not support that anyway | 16:12 |
| pvanhoof | it supports interfaces, and gtypeinterface can be viewed as such an interface | 16:12 |
| djcb | (i meant MI) | 16:13 |
| pvanhoof | but to implement one in D, you would have to feed a proxy gobject that implements the gtypeinterface with delegates from D | 16:13 |
| pvanhoof | right | 16:13 |
| pvanhoof | D shouldn't support MI | 16:13 |
| *** Veggen has quit IRC | 16:13 | |
| djcb | i guess... | 16:13 |
| pvanhoof | nor does | 16:13 |
| pvanhoof | so D is right now, no need to change that | 16:13 |
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| djcb | sure; so you have to find a new trick for GTypeInterface | 16:14 |
| *** Veggen has joined #maemo | 16:14 | |
| pvanhoof | but then to support gtypeinterface correctly (and superb) , would require a compiler plugin that recognizes them "as" D interfaces | 16:14 |
| djcb | hmmmm | 16:14 |
| *** Veggen has quit IRC | 16:14 | |
| pvanhoof | well, the current trick is to create a GObject implementations that accepts a struct with all the implementations as function pointers | 16:14 |
| pvanhoof | and write that struct instance in D | 16:14 |
| pvanhoof | using D delegates | 16:14 |
| pvanhoof | same for C# | 16:14 |
| *** Veggen has joined #maemo | 16:15 | |
| pvanhoof | but that's a lot work, not as easy as "class : MyInterface { } | 16:15 |
| pvanhoof | " | 16:15 |
| pvanhoof | etc etc | 16:15 |
| pvanhoof | and for each gtypeinterface you implement, you would need to create a new such struct instance | 16:15 |
| pvanhoof | try explaining that to a novice :( | 16:16 |
| djcb | maybe forget about implementing GTypeInterfaces in D | 16:16 |
| djcb | what about defining them in D | 16:16 |
| pvanhoof | redefining them? | 16:16 |
| djcb | and implementing them in C or whatever | 16:16 |
| pvanhoof | yes, but then you still need to always implement them in C | 16:16 |
| pvanhoof | for example the TnyAccountStore | 16:16 |
| pvanhoof | I want people to implement that in Python, C#, D | 16:17 |
| pvanhoof | or the TnyMsgView, same story | 16:17 |
| djcb | mmmm | 16:17 |
| pvanhoof | well, that's the final target of the language bindings | 16:17 |
| pvanhoof | if then can do that, it's enough for me | 16:18 |
| pvanhoof | I'm probably now going to use gobject class implementations that accept such struct instances with function pointers coming from the alien language | 16:18 |
| pvanhoof | s/alien/higher | 16:18 |
| *** Veggen has quit IRC | 16:18 | |
| pvanhoof | with the assumption that each higher language has a technique to turn a method into a C function pointer (like in C#: delegates( | 16:19 |
| pvanhoof | (there's a way to convert that in C#) | 16:19 |
| *** Veggen has joined #maemo | 16:19 | |
| pvanhoof | (and let it pass "this" as first parameter of the function, just like the typical gobject situation) | 16:19 |
| pvanhoof | because a delegate in C# contains a "this" reference afaik | 16:19 |
| pvanhoof | but mdk is going to correct me if not :) | 16:20 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, did you check out the concept of the partial message retrieval. With the strategies? | 16:23 |
| pvanhoof | and, you like? | 16:23 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 16:23 |
| pvanhoof | http://tinymail.org/trac/tinymail/wiki/PartialMessageRetrieval | 16:23 |
| djcb | yeah, just returned home after and went trough the office to get my machine | 16:23 |
| djcb | so now i will read it | 16:24 |
| pvanhoof | ok | 16:24 |
| djcb | and you get your reply the w.e. | 16:24 |
| pvanhoof | ok :) | 16:24 |
| pvanhoof | well, it's already working (the concept itself). so you'll need a good reason to make me change it now | 16:24 |
| pvanhoof | hehe | 16:24 |
| djcb | btw, have any of the camel patches been accepted upstream? | 16:24 |
| djcb | hehe\ | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | I don't focus on that anymore | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | but | 16:25 |
| djcb | hard to argue with a working implementation | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | harish and varadhan asked me about it yesterday | 16:25 |
| djcb | aha | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | or, somebody asked | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | on their channel | 16:25 |
| djcb | no need to focus on it, but just send them the patches | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | and harish and varadhan replied on what I was mumbling | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | ah, they have all the patches | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | it's on their mailing list | 16:25 |
| pvanhoof | note that if I send it to their mailing list | 16:26 |
| pvanhoof | that it means, by my contract with Novell, that they are allowed to transfer copyright ownership | 16:26 |
| pvanhoof | so, if there's a piece that I do for Nokia on which Nokia wants to keep the copyright no matter what | 16:26 |
| pvanhoof | then do tell me before I send it to their mailing list | 16:26 |
| pvanhoof | because a contributions to Camel does not HAVE to be copyright transferred. It's just that it wont ever get put upstream unless they are allowed to transfer the ownership | 16:27 |
| pvanhoof | but upstream doesn't matter for tinymail | 16:27 |
| djcb | that's just fine. | 16:29 |
| pvanhoof | hmm Royksopp, I have to listen to more of their stuff | 16:29 |
| pvanhoof | Poor listeners of my next tinymail demo :) | 16:29 |
| MDK | pvanhoof: what are you working on for Novell? (if not a secret) | 16:29 |
| pvanhoof | MDK, nothing | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | MDK, but I once did a larger Evolution contribution | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | and for such, they ask you to sign a contract | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | which basically says that they are allowed to strip every Evolution work you do, and transfer copyright | 16:30 |
| MDK | ah, I see | 16:30 |
| MDK | I thought they're switching to tinymail | 16:30 |
| MDK | ;) | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | however, I added to that that it's ONLY about stuff that I send to THEIR mailing list | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | because the original copyright was vague about that | 16:31 |
| pvanhoof | well, I wouldn't AT ALL agree with a copyright ownership transfer of tinymail code | 16:31 |
| pvanhoof | unless they payed me for each and every specific piece that needs ownership transfer | 16:31 |
| pvanhoof | and I would ask a lot :) | 16:31 |
| pvanhoof | so don't worry :) | 16:32 |
| MDK | it would be a nice paradox seeing novell switching to tm | 16:33 |
| djcb | i thought they were switching to Outlook Express? | 16:33 |
| pvanhoof | well, considering how their code on top of Camel looks | 16:33 |
| pvanhoof | it would make sense | 16:33 |
| pvanhoof | Camel is at times a real mess | 16:33 |
| pvanhoof | but what they have build on top, wow sometimes | 16:34 |
| pvanhoof | but for being a mess, Camel is a more or less good mess | 16:34 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 16:34 |
| MDK | djcb: that's a good one ;) | 16:34 |
| MDK | btw, speaking about D... maybe we just write a utility that'll convert GObject code into native D object code? ;) | 16:35 |
| pvanhoof | MDK, try reading the code that displays a message :) | 16:35 |
| MDK | and recompile whole gtk in D | 16:35 |
| pvanhoof | don't get mad at the goto statements | 16:35 |
| pvanhoof | MDK, sounds good | 16:35 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 16:35 |
| pvanhoof | and upset the entire community :D | 16:35 |
| pvanhoof | because we forked their beloved gtk+ :) | 16:36 |
| pvanhoof | and because we didn't use c++, bla, Python, Quiton, Xton, Yton, Zeroton, Phpton, Z, L, X | 16:36 |
| pvanhoof | don't forget P | 16:36 |
| djcb | d does not support amd64, so it sucks :) | 16:37 |
| MDK | fortunately it "supports" Gentoo ;) | 16:38 |
| MDK | btw, we had an interesting discussion with xan yesterday | 16:38 |
| MDK | seems the next QT is going to be a kick ass | 16:38 |
| pvanhoof | why this time? | 16:42 |
| MDK | they've done some really advanced work on the acceleration/hw layer | 16:43 |
| MDK | and they've got much more people working on QT than people working on Gtk | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | 2959 if (ct) | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | (gdb) print *c | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | No symbol "c" in current context. | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | (gdb) print *ct | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | bleh | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | stupid gdb | 16:43 |
| MDK | http://zrusin.blogspot.com/ -- this guy has a nice blog of QT happenings | 16:44 |
| djcb | ah; looks cool | 16:48 |
| robtaylor | djcb: http://dgcc.sourceforge.net/ | 16:51 |
| robtaylor | MDK: yeah i'm actually pretty jealous of some of the stuff they have in qt4 | 16:52 |
| MDK | who is behind QT? Sony? Who else? | 16:53 |
| djcb | trolltech... | 16:54 |
| djcb | skype uses it | 16:54 |
| djcb | nobody makes money from gtk right now | 16:55 |
| MDK | not directly | 16:55 |
| zuh | From maintaining gtk at least... | 16:56 |
| robtaylor | i'm sure people get paid to hack on it from time to time | 16:56 |
| MDK | I think companies such as nokia or novell should hire/sponsor people just to work on gtk | 16:56 |
| robtaylor | ... | 16:56 |
| zuh | That's not maintaining :) | 16:56 |
| MDK | work on -> general work on | 16:57 |
| MDK | no just "fix what we need at this moment" | 16:57 |
| robtaylor | MDK: i'm sure that's been done at times in the past, but then those people get pulled off to work on other things | 16:57 |
| * robtaylor looks at dbus-glib sadly | 16:58 | |
| robtaylor | nng, that reminds me, need to do a release | 16:58 |
| koen | robtaylor: did you see http://gabriel.sourceforge.net/ yet? | 16:59 |
| * robtaylor looks | 17:00 | |
| robtaylor | koen: oh its zeenix's, cool :) | 17:02 |
| koen | "Gabriel is a simple utility to enable D-Bus clients to connect to a D-Bus daemon running on a remote machine, through SSH." | 17:02 |
| * robtaylor looks at the code | 17:02 | |
| robtaylor | hmm, svn repo is empty | 17:03 |
| koen | http://gabriel.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/gabriel/ | 17:04 |
| robtaylor | oh, clicked cvs by accident | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | robtaylor, any news on the shmem and queue implementation for a dbus transport? | 17:04 |
| * pvanhoof still extremely interested in that | 17:04 | |
| robtaylor | pvanhoof: nothing was ever started | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, it's implemented | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | ;) | 17:05 |
| djcb | great work! | 17:05 |
| pvanhoof | pvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ scp Screenshot.png pvanhoofbe@pvanhoof.be:public_html/files/partial_msg_ret.png | 17:06 |
| pvanhoof | that's http://pvanhoof.be/files/partial_msg_ret.png | 17:06 |
| pvanhoof | in the background you see the Evolution "view source" screen | 17:06 |
| pvanhoof | well, "implemented" | 17:07 |
| pvanhoof | I still need to fix it up so that tinymail "sees" the mime parts | 17:07 |
| robtaylor | koen: i'd have though just a new transport in libdbus would be more sensible | 17:07 |
| pvanhoof | but doesn't have them | 17:07 |
| pvanhoof | so that you can tell the user something like: oeps, you need to go online and download the entire message to view this mime part | 17:07 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, but the basics are in place | 17:08 |
| djcb | very cool | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | pvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ ls -alh /home/pvanhoof/.tinymail/mail/imap/tinymailunittest@mail.tinymail.org/folders/INBOX/5. | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | -rw------- 1 pvanhoof pvanhoof 1.4K 2007-01-06 16:04 /home/pvanhoof/.tinymail/mail/imap/tinymailunittest@mail.tinymail.org/folders/INBOX/5. | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | pvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | versus | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | pvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ ls -alh /home/pvanhoof/.evolution/mail/imap/tinymailunittest@mail.tinymail.org/folders/INBOX/5. | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | -rw------- 1 pvanhoof pvanhoof 971K 2007-01-05 15:46 /home/pvanhoof/.evolution/mail/imap/tinymailunittest@mail.tinymail.org/folders/INBOX/5. | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | pvanhoof@lort:~/Desktop$ | 17:08 |
| djcb | i really think you deserve a beer now.... | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | yes :) | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | but I only drink cocktails | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | my body only accepts expensive cocktails | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | sorry | 17:09 |
| djcb | i know, i know | 17:09 |
| * pvanhoof looks if he was not having a porn window on that screenshot | 17:10 | |
| pvanhoof | no, I wasn't | 17:10 |
| pvanhoof | feww | 17:10 |
| kender | hehe | 17:11 |
| djcb | codepr0n is the best | 17:11 |
| pvanhoof | oh and, mail.tinymail.org u:tinymailunittest p:unittest | 17:11 |
| pvanhoof | so you can see the E-mail yourself | 17:12 |
| pvanhoof | oh, there's one discrepancy and that's misordering of the boundaries | 17:12 |
| pvanhoof | I'm checking that | 17:12 |
| pvanhoof | it should be HEADER boundary 1.HEADER 1 boundary | 17:13 |
| pvanhoof | now it's HEADER boundary 1.HEADER boundary 1 boundary | 17:13 |
| pvanhoof | I'll send a premature diff to the mailing list | 17:13 |
| djcb | great stuff | 17:14 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, now, it WOULD (hehe, in capitals, guess what) be possible to not receive the 1.HEADER, 1 nor HEADER anymore | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | yet reconstruct the entire message | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | but | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | I'm more in favor of simply removing the file from the cache, and retrieving it from scratch | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | in case the user switched from partial to full | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | and it detected that a message was previously retrieved as partial | 17:17 |
| djcb | yeah; i agree | 17:17 |
| pvanhoof | because well ... the part that was received is small | 17:17 |
| djcb | overhead should be negligible | 17:17 |
| djcb | yup | 17:17 |
| pvanhoof | the "think pragmatic" style | 17:17 |
| djcb | getting things done;) | 17:18 |
| pvanhoof | and the "fuck the user who has to pay for GPRS" thinking | 17:18 |
| pvanhoof | maybe Nokia can let Vodaphone pay for letting me remove this feature all together so that users have to pay more for bandwidth | 17:18 |
| pvanhoof | anyway, the core is done. But most of the work is the jingle bells around it | 17:19 |
| pvanhoof | so noo, it's not finished :) djcb | 17:19 |
| pvanhoof | the problem with the boundary was that I decoded the boundary at "Content-Type: multi..." | 17:20 |
| pvanhoof | in stead of at "multi.." | 17:20 |
| pvanhoof | so, strchr(ptr, ':'); if (ptr) ptr++ ... | 17:20 |
| djcb | fun fun fun | 17:21 |
| pvanhoof | sent | 17:24 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, ehm | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | this does mean, however, but it was already the case | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | that a normal Camel will NOT work | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | in other words, nothing changes | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | it just adds to the "it will not work" reasons | 17:26 |
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| pvanhoof | robtaylor, are you guys coming to fosdem? | 17:30 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, are you? :) | 17:30 |
| djcb | i might yeahy | 17:31 |
| djcb | why don't they have such conferences in sunny places :) | 17:31 |
| *** benzea has quit IRC | 17:34 | |
| MDK | fernando prposed it recently, I think we'll be coming too | 17:35 |
| MDK | (I mean, to fosdem) | 17:35 |
| MDK | not generally coming | 17:36 |
| MDK | ugh | 17:36 |
| MDK | whatever | 17:36 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, :) | 17:36 |
| pvanhoof | aha ok | 17:36 |
| pvanhoof | yes, get all the Finnish dudes over :) | 17:36 |
| robtaylor | pvanhoof: for sure | 17:37 |
| MDK | I think tickets from here I pretty cheap | 17:37 |
| * koen wonders if the embedded room will be big enough | 17:37 | |
| pvanhoof | maybe ask the organization to do some presentations (just don't make it sound like you are advertising for Nokia. They are not so much into sponsoring) | 17:37 |
| pvanhoof | koen, :) | 17:37 |
| pvanhoof | maybe we should warn them :) | 17:37 |
| robtaylor | koen: heh, probably not | 17:37 |
| pvanhoof | hey, you guys should have visited t-dose | 17:38 |
| * koen should remember to arrange lunches for the OE booth people | 17:38 | |
| pvanhoof | in comparison with the material speakers get at fosdem | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | t-dose was awesome | 17:38 |
| koen | pvanhoof: hey, I visited t-dose! | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | koen, yes, the day before I was there ! :) | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | koen, but hey .. the projector and rooms where coool | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | great university :) | 17:39 |
| pvanhoof | I met maybe four people .. but hey | 17:39 |
| pvanhoof | guys from irex showing an epaper device | 17:39 |
| pvanhoof | the LogFS dude | 17:39 |
| pvanhoof | that's the right people to meet , right? :) | 17:40 |
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| pvanhoof | oh MDK | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | if you visit fosdem | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | think .. Belgium, chocolat | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 17:47 |
| qgil | http://bsdblog.livejournal.com/7090.html | 17:48 |
| qgil | "N770 would be a very lucrative platform for embedded design..." I don't quite get this paragraph | 17:48 |
| qgil | maybe it's the Epiphany hangover my stomach is suffering at the end of Xman | 17:49 |
| qgil | hi there :) | 17:49 |
| qgil | Belgium, pommes | 17:49 |
| kender | I'm thinking about not getting the N870 after all. It's too expensive. And then the software on it is crippled. | 17:50 |
| kender | he knows the price? | 17:50 |
| kender | pleaseee tell us! | 17:51 |
| kender | hehe | 17:51 |
| tko | crippled? | 17:53 |
| kender | ^^ | 17:53 |
| qgil | He seems to be well informed, yesterday he wrote in another blog post: "I talked with a buddy of mine and he said that they are nowhere near releasing the N870 at Nokia" - http://bsdblog.livejournal.com/6766.html | 17:54 |
| kender | hehe | 17:54 |
| robtaylor | rofl | 17:55 |
| qgil | anyway, in fact I was interested in his opinion about Maemo: "Ofcourse some firm may pickup N770 and use it as an embedded development platform, but there is no support available for that from nokia, not counting maemo, but I'm not sure if firms want to use maemo for their development needs." | 17:58 |
| robtaylor | zomg http://portablevideo.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/ | 17:58 |
| koen | robtaylor: old news :) | 17:58 |
| robtaylor | qgil: well its a fair statement, maemo is pretty crappy, tbh | 17:59 |
| tko | robtaylor, why? | 17:59 |
| robtaylor | *imnsho | 17:59 |
| suihkulokki | "My plan for running qmail/djbdns on a N870 device is not realizing" | 17:59 |
| suihkulokki | ... | 17:59 |
| qgil | the guy is living in Finland and has posted about Maemo in other occasions - http://bsdblog.livejournal.com/tag/maemo | 17:59 |
| robtaylor | tko: well, built using old scratchbox and no resync with debian for a start | 18:00 |
| qgil | robtaylor: I'll tell you 2 things | 18:00 |
| robtaylor | tko: its a prin for every package to have to refactor teh packaging for compat 4 | 18:00 |
| robtaylor | *pain | 18:00 |
| qgil | 1. I'll find the time to ask you why you think this about maemo | 18:00 |
| qgil | and write notes not to forget anything :) | 18:00 |
| robtaylor | heh | 18:00 |
| qgil | 2. you were put as an example in one of the interviews I had during my selection process :) | 18:01 |
| qgil | I think it was me the first one bringing up your name | 18:01 |
| robtaylor | qgil: i was? crazy =) | 18:01 |
| robtaylor | qgil: i'll be over in HEL next week if you want to meet up | 18:01 |
| tko | robtaylor, if those are all, then we're doing fine IMO :) | 18:02 |
| qgil | I'm landing in HEL the 13th, late | 18:02 |
| tko | (quite different from the usual complaints) | 18:02 |
| qgil | with partner and 2 kids, perhaps not the most appropriate moment ;) | 18:02 |
| robtaylor | qgil: ah well, meybe next time :) | 18:03 |
| tko | robtaylor, and yes, I have suffered myself with debian/compat and stuff | 18:03 |
| robtaylor | tko: yeah, we all know the problems with maemo if we're honest ;) | 18:03 |
| lle | anything not using sb2 is obsolete | 18:03 |
| tko | anything using sb2 is not working :) | 18:04 |
| lle | that may be ;) | 18:04 |
| robtaylor | lle: i was about to say, is sb2 working yet?! | 18:04 |
| lle | robtaylor: well, it kind of does | 18:04 |
| qgil | tko: I hope you will be patient with me :) | 18:05 |
| robtaylor | i remember getting the lowdown from tommi a while back, and it seems like a very sensible plan | 18:05 |
| lle | but there are some things like fakeroot, debian packaging etc. that I've no personal interest in, and thus they are not working at all | 18:05 |
| lle | and it's wildly experimental at the moment | 18:05 |
| lle | but good enough to build xorg | 18:05 |
| lle | for arm | 18:05 |
| tko | qgil, we'll just have to wait and see | 18:05 |
| lle | and busybox | 18:05 |
| lle | xorg using --prefix=/usr and installing | 18:06 |
| robtaylor | tko: ooi, what are the complaints you usually get? | 18:06 |
| tko | qgil, I'm being optimistic, but probably somewhat frustrated when it comes to timing | 18:06 |
| * qgil can't talk about timing yet | 18:07 | |
| tko | robtaylor, badly documented, strangely different from what people expect, lack of visibility | 18:07 |
| lle | I'd say that functionality/kilobyte ratio of sb2 is thoroughly trouncing sb1 | 18:08 |
| tko | qgil, no rush, you need to decorate first anyway :) | 18:08 |
| qgil | it's more about packaging, I believe :) | 18:08 |
| tko | lle, so is there someone more or less regularly working on sb2 or is it just a one man's pet project? | 18:09 |
| lle | tko: it's one mans obsession, not a pet project | 18:09 |
| robtaylor | tko: oh, well i'd agree with that too ;) | 18:09 |
| tko | robtaylor, old news, eh? :) | 18:09 |
| robtaylor | tko: heh, indeed ;) | 18:09 |
| lle | I personally hate integration, so I don't understand how I ended up creating tools that help doing it | 18:09 |
| tko | lle, well, um, to avoid doing it? | 18:10 |
| lle | tko: that may be it ;) | 18:11 |
| lle | I'd say that if you'd create a new distro from scratch | 18:11 |
| lle | you could use sb2 and by not being an idiot, be quite happy with it | 18:12 |
| lle | but it's much harder with this debian packaging crap | 18:12 |
| robtaylor | lle: but if you're doing that, you might as well use OE ;) | 18:12 |
| keesj | QE? | 18:12 |
| lle | robtaylor: I don't like how OE solves cross-compilation ;) | 18:12 |
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| robtaylor | lle: i can't see much point in using sb other then for buildind preexisting distros .. | 18:13 |
| keesj | I played with openwrt , I like that is's quite simple | 18:13 |
| robtaylor | lle: well, i know what you mean.. there's not really a nice solution to the problem though | 18:13 |
| MDK | I wonder if apple is going to release an ipod with a touch screen | 18:14 |
| MDK | on macworld that is | 18:14 |
| keesj | I love SB two | 18:14 |
| robtaylor | MDK: and bluetooth hopefully ;) | 18:14 |
| MDK | robtaylor: and GSM ;) | 18:14 |
| lle | robtaylor: I'm hoping that maybe sb2 will become a nice solution, not sure yet. there's a danger that it'll end up going down a slippery slope like sb1 did. | 18:14 |
| robtaylor | MDK: and A PONY! | 18:14 |
| lle | robtaylor: a different slippery slope but a slope anyway | 18:15 |
| robtaylor | lle: yeah :/ | 18:15 |
| MDK | I read they're building iphones in 12 million copies for a start | 18:15 |
| suihkulokki | I read a rumour in internet so it must be true ;) | 18:16 |
| kender | http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/comments/3062089/ | 18:16 |
| kender | what do you think about it? | 18:16 |
| robtaylor | lle: i once tried implemening support in autotools for building noinst tools on teh host, but all that M4 made my head explode | 18:16 |
| lle | robtaylor: I know exactly what you mean :D | 18:17 |
| robtaylor | kender: seems pretty expensive to me. | 18:17 |
| kender | but, available, and no official notice of nokia? | 18:18 |
| robtaylor | i must chat to hugsie a bit, i don't like this whole idea of moving over to python based autotools replacements.. | 18:18 |
| robtaylor | that's a scary proposition for cross building | 18:19 |
| MDK | btwm it's funny the "google gtalk BETA" logo on N800 box | 18:19 |
| MDK | google maybe the "BETA" a logo slogan | 18:19 |
| robtaylor | MDK: that last sentence didn't wuite make sense to me.. | 18:20 |
| robtaylor | *quite | 18:20 |
| Disconnect | looks like its going for $400USD | 18:20 |
| MDK | robtaylor: I mean that they made "BETA" a "value" | 18:20 |
| kender | and, in europe? 400 €? 375? | 18:20 |
| Disconnect | anyone know what sw its got? (same as 770, or maybe bt kb support...?) | 18:21 |
| kender | with the nokia 770, what the do? 350 € / 350 $ USD? | 18:21 |
| * Disconnect might have to go to compusa today | 18:21 | |
| kender | Disconnect, no idea, only speculation | 18:21 |
| lle | robtaylor: I've been thinking about creating a completely automatic build system replacement system... would trace the build on a couple of platforms, figure out what are the diffs and create a sensible make based equivalent. | 18:22 |
| lle | I'm only half joking | 18:22 |
| suihkulokki | bsd or gnu make? | 18:23 |
| * suihkulokki ducks | 18:23 | |
| MDK | haha | 18:23 |
| lle | suihkulokki: I was mainly thinking of nmake ;) | 18:23 |
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| robtaylor | lle: mmm, i wouldn't go for that myself. I think you need your build rules to be well defined | 18:24 |
| kender | BBL | 18:25 |
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| lle | robtaylor: true, but since currently most build systems are total crap anyway, the loss wouldn't be big. | 18:26 |
| * robtaylor actually rather likes autotools | 18:27 | |
| robtaylor | i maybe sick, but... ;) | 18:27 |
| pvanhoof | it's a love-hate relationship for me | 18:28 |
| pvanhoof | I love it because it does everything I need | 18:28 |
| pvanhoof | I hate it because, well .. if you do something wrong. It's crap to know what you did wrong | 18:28 |
| pvanhoof | and being a human, I constantly do things wrong | 18:28 |
| lle | autotools based things work reasonably well with sb2 | 18:28 |
| Disconnect | its in stock locally, maybe i'll go out tonight | 18:28 |
| MDK | yeah, I know the feeling | 18:29 |
| pvanhoof | but, I would like a native gmake.exe and bash.exe for Windows so that I can compile without needing cygwin using autotools | 18:29 |
| pvanhoof | or can I already do that? | 18:29 |
| MDK | it's like the last thought of a hangman | 18:29 |
| MDK | first there is a denial -- you hate it (autotools) with all the might | 18:29 |
| MDK | you refuse to accept it | 18:30 |
| pvanhoof | because I'm looking at glib atm, and it looks like I will have to convert the Makefile.am of glib to nmake.exe Makefiles | 18:30 |
| MDK | you fight against it | 18:30 |
| MDK | you search for solutions | 18:30 |
| pvanhoof | yes, and you'll hate the solutions even more :) | 18:30 |
| MDK | and than you fail and accept the irreversible fate | 18:30 |
| c0ffee | automake doesn't require gmake | 18:30 |
| MDK | of using autotools, since everything else is a crap | 18:30 |
| pvanhoof | ah, so it generates a Makefile that works with nmake.exe c0ffee ? | 18:30 |
| c0ffee | if nobody added other strange rules to the makefile.am, yes | 18:31 |
| pvanhoof | see, the thing is that I'm trying to port glib to WinCE | 18:31 |
| pvanhoof | I already finished getting pthread-win32 working on WinCE | 18:31 |
| pvanhoof | now iconv and then glib itself | 18:31 |
| robtaylor | pvanhoof: cool stuff :) | 18:31 |
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| pvanhoof | robtaylor, yep. Widening our market :) | 18:32 |
| robtaylor | indeedy | 18:32 |
| pvanhoof | once glib is running, I think gtk+ is a small step | 18:32 |
| pvanhoof | it looked a little bit at tml's work, and not really a lot isn't available on WinCE (of what is being used) | 18:33 |
| pvanhoof | after that, getting gtk-sharp working with the Compact Framework .NET | 18:34 |
| pvanhoof | and I swear .. omg, so many mobile Windows developers HATE System.Windows.Forms of Compact Framework .NET | 18:34 |
| pvanhoof | they would beg at Collabora for various technology-porting projects :) | 18:34 |
| pvanhoof | if I just see the swearing about SWF on CF.NET at my company, I sometimes really wonder howcome no Microsoft employees have been murdered | 18:35 |
| pvanhoof | yet | 18:35 |
| pvanhoof | yet, it's .NET and it MUST run WinCE (because the customer asked that, period) | 18:36 |
| pvanhoof | two things that are "it MUST be that" on which whatever Linux device will always fail the acceptance | 18:36 |
| pvanhoof | and yes, it's political for a lot customers/companies | 18:37 |
| pvanhoof | doesn't matter, bring gtk+ to it | 18:37 |
| suihkulokki | the "must run windows" is workaroundable | 18:40 |
| * suihkulokki remembers a projects with "must run windows" ending up implement with samba and wine running "flying windows" screensaver | 18:41 | |
| pvanhoof | well, I don't think cygwin works on WinCE | 18:41 |
| pvanhoof | ah, that way :) | 18:41 |
| pvanhoof | well, problem two is that the sales people often get nice extras from Microsoft | 18:41 |
| pvanhoof | most consultants know this :) btw | 18:42 |
| pvanhoof | so they don't even try | 18:42 |
| pvanhoof | so why the heck would the sales dude want to help the customer by giving him a Linux mobile device? | 18:42 |
| pvanhoof | it's a risk, he gains less, and it's MUCH harder to find developers | 18:42 |
| pvanhoof | "so what if wince can't do that application, then we will just sell a mobile device with more resources" | 18:43 |
| pvanhoof | end of discussion :) | 18:43 |
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| pvanhoof | -- note, this is often about custom software development for companies that actually use the mobile devices, not so much people who play with it -- | 18:44 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, other option for writing the messages | 19:12 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, or, I keep the messaged a multipart | 19:12 |
| pvanhoof | but in reality it's not really a multipart anymore, because it only contains one part | 19:12 |
| pvanhoof | well, then it's of course a multi part with one part | 19:13 |
| pvanhoof | but this is a little bit more tricky for your TnyMsgView implementation | 19:13 |
| pvanhoof | consider that if it's a multipart/alternative | 19:13 |
| pvanhoof | and the preferred alternative for your TnyMsgView implementation is text/html | 19:13 |
| pvanhoof | but because multiparts are cropped to one part, only the text/plain is in the cache | 19:14 |
| pvanhoof | so now the TnyMsgView thinks that this is a text/html one, yet it only has a text/plain part | 19:14 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 19:14 |
| djcb | yeah, that would not be good | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | so under normal circumstances it would just display the text/html one, but now it will have to do the fail situation | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | see the other solution is to totally rewrite the message | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | so, walk all the headers and replace the Content-Type one to the content-type of part 1 | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | so, | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | get the UID FETCH 1 BODY[HEADER] | 19:15 |
| djcb | urghhh | 19:15 |
| pvanhoof | get the UID FETCH 1 BODY[1.HEADER] | 19:16 |
| djcb | that seems wrong | 19:16 |
| pvanhoof | replace the Content-Type of the first with the one of 1.HEADER | 19:16 |
| pvanhoof | yes well, else it's going to be a Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="ABC" | 19:16 |
| pvanhoof | in HEADER | 19:16 |
| pvanhoof | and in 1.HEADER it will be for example plain/text | 19:16 |
| pvanhoof | err text/plain | 19:16 |
| pvanhoof | yet in the CamelMessageInfo it will say that there's a text/html part | 19:17 |
| pvanhoof | so in case the TnyMsgView uses that info (it doesn't atm, but it should and could) | 19:17 |
| pvanhoof | the thing is why it someday should, is that that way .. you don't need to parse the entire message | 19:17 |
| pvanhoof | and if some day we will do the "per part a file" trick: 1.HEADER 1.1.HEADER and 1.1 in the cache | 19:18 |
| pvanhoof | for a one mime-part message | 19:18 |
| pvanhoof | that would reduce the amount of open files to only two | 19:18 |
| pvanhoof | else for just knowing which mime parts are available, it would need to open all files | 19:19 |
| pvanhoof | that is a reason why I did it in one file for now by the way | 19:19 |
| pvanhoof | because it wouldn't matter anyway | 19:19 |
| djcb | yeah | 19:19 |
| pvanhoof | the thing here is , memory consumption again | 19:19 |
| pvanhoof | opening the big file and parsing it is of course more intense for memory than opening only the files that correspond to the mime parts that you ARE viewing | 19:20 |
| djcb | well, the mem consumption of a message without atts is not too bad | 19:20 |
| pvanhoof | yes but with is | 19:20 |
| pvanhoof | some messages will have attachments | 19:20 |
| pvanhoof | unless the software on top of tinymail completely disables full message retrieval of course | 19:21 |
| pvanhoof | hrmm | 19:21 |
| pvanhoof | for now I'm going to keep it this way | 19:22 |
| pvanhoof | the patch, by the way, writes the messages wrong | 19:22 |
| pvanhoof | I corrected this, and then you need to disable checking whether the alternatives is fulfilled | 19:22 |
| pvanhoof | as in | 19:22 |
| pvanhoof | if it's a multipart/alternative, only one should be shown | 19:22 |
| pvanhoof | it will show an empty mime part | 19:22 |
| pvanhoof | if you disabled the "break" that stops the loop if the right alternative mime part is showed | 19:23 |
| pvanhoof | then it'll show all (correctly) | 19:23 |
| djcb | in fact, if you _know_ you only want to display the html part, you don't even need to download | 19:23 |
| djcb | the other part | 19:23 |
| djcb | but that is just a little optimization | 19:23 |
| pvanhoof | indeed but .. that implies knowing that | 19:23 |
| pvanhoof | which means letting the view tell that to the call that gets the message | 19:24 |
| pvanhoof | because what you will view , is ui (view) business | 19:24 |
| pvanhoof | and next to that | 19:24 |
| djcb | well, you can check the mime-type (per part) using IMAP, can't you? | 19:24 |
| pvanhoof | you are sure that you will have a part called 1 | 19:24 |
| pvanhoof | but you can't easily know what part is the html one | 19:25 |
| pvanhoof | to know that you need to fetch each partnumber.HEADER | 19:25 |
| pvanhoof | so UID FETCH 1 BODY.PEEK[n.HEADER] | 19:25 |
| pvanhoof | and read the Content-Type | 19:25 |
| djcb | yup | 19:25 |
| pvanhoof | well that consumes bandwidth of course :) | 19:25 |
| pvanhoof | and the html one is often not going to display good | 19:25 |
| djcb | but esp. on gprs it might be faster just do download the damn thing | 19:25 |
| pvanhoof | because the images are not fetched | 19:26 |
| djcb | true | 19:26 |
| pvanhoof | yes, it's also more requests | 19:26 |
| pvanhoof | 1 is always available | 19:26 |
| djcb | it can be 1+ sec per request | 19:26 |
| pvanhoof | sometimes 1 is the html one | 19:26 |
| djcb | on some gprs | 19:26 |
| pvanhoof | awch for getting the summary info then :) | 19:26 |
| pvanhoof | it does get the messages in batches of 1000 at the time | 19:27 |
| pvanhoof | but once that is received, I think it's message per message asking for it | 19:27 |
| pvanhoof | I tried to get this right, to ask for all messages in on go | 19:27 |
| pvanhoof | but that just didn't work on all IMAP servers | 19:27 |
| pvanhoof | maybe I should investigate that a little bit | 19:27 |
| pvanhoof | original Camel however | 19:27 |
| pvanhoof | ORGINAL CAMEL HOWEVER | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | dude | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | that is crazy | 19:28 |
| djcb | yeah.... | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | the requests are HUGE | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | for just the flags, they send really a lot of bytes | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | per message | 19:28 |
| djcb | well, the bytes are less of a problem than the # of reqs | 19:28 |
| pvanhoof | 'll check refreshing the summary then | 19:29 |
| djcb | but lemme take a shower now, i just back from running :) | 19:29 |
| pvanhoof | ok | 19:29 |
| pvanhoof | I'll probably be gone to tinne once you are back :( | 19:29 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 19:29 |
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| pvanhoof | typed the wrong character | 19:29 |
| pahartik | pvanhoof: which IMAP client are you talking about? | 19:29 |
| pvanhoof | this is about tinymaqil | 19:30 |
| pvanhoof | -q | 19:30 |
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| djcb | pvanhoof: ok - say 'hi' to her :-) | 19:39 |
| pvanhoof | will do | 19:39 |
| pvanhoof | djcb, it seems that the summary fetching thingy does group it | 19:41 |
| pvanhoof | imap_uid_array_to_set | 19:41 |
| pvanhoof | that is the thing that groups them | 19:41 |
| pvanhoof | #define UID_SET_LIMIT (768) | 19:42 |
| pvanhoof | that's the max len | 19:42 |
| pvanhoof | so each 768's message, a new request is sent | 19:42 |
| pahartik | pvanhoof: better IMAP client for Maemo sounds good | 19:42 |
| pvanhoof | pahartik, search for tinymail, read about its development on the trac | 19:42 |
| pvanhoof | and join the fun | 19:43 |
| pvanhoof | but I gtg now | 19:43 |
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| Disconnect | nobody got one yet? | 20:21 |
| c0ffee | i got a 870! | 20:21 |
| c0ffee | *hups* | 20:21 |
| c0ffee | disregard that | 20:21 |
| Disconnect | o_O | 20:22 |
| MDK | hleh | 20:27 |
| MDK | "/whois c0ffee" ;) | 20:28 |
| tko | nokianinjas.set_target "c0ffee" | 20:29 |
| MDK | hehe | 20:29 |
| c0ffee | what's wrong with my whois? | 20:31 |
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| qgil | c0ffee: ru http://penguin-breeder.org/maemo/ ? | 20:49 |
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| qgil | (sorry if the question is obvious, my limited memory is having a hard time relating names with IDs with URLs without hackergotchis or pictures :) ) | 20:52 |
| arj | will there be an software upgrade after the nokia 800 has been released or will the 800 use the same version as the 770 currently uses? | 20:54 |
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| c0ffee | qgil, yes | 21:09 |
| c0ffee | my 870 uses an upgraded software | 21:10 |
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| c0ffee | since it has lots of new fancy hardware features | 21:11 |
| c0ffee | like builtin camera, gps, sim card support etc | 21:11 |
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| arj | nice can you see what version it is? | 21:35 |
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| c0ffee | that NDA that came with the device doesn't allow me to share this information, sorry | 21:36 |
| koen | pretty loose NDA | 21:38 |
| koen | if it allows you to say you have an NDA ;) | 21:38 |
| c0ffee | yeah | 21:39 |
| c0ffee | and brag on irc and in blogs | 21:39 |
| c0ffee | strange nda | 21:39 |
| arj | :D | 21:39 |
| arj | Nothing but a Dubious Agreement | 21:41 |
| c0ffee | non-deterministic automaton | 21:41 |
| tko | arj, nokia policy is to not discuss products that have not been officially announced | 21:41 |
| arj | it better get announced soon then :-) | 21:42 |
| tko | or we can send our lawyers :) | 21:44 |
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| tko | watching quake done quick.. I had completely forgotten how crazy (rocket) jumps one can do | 21:52 |
| Disconnect | new OS on the 800 | 21:56 |
| Disconnect | (new release that is) | 21:56 |
| qgil | I'm still intrigued by http://bsdblog.livejournal.com/profile | 21:57 |
| qgil | might be noit that far from this #channel :) | 21:57 |
| * Disconnect is trying to get an xterm running | 21:57 | |
| arj | cool! | 21:58 |
| qgil | btw I'm using http://www.google.com/alerts/ for a week now and I'm pretty impressed - few years ago you would pay a lot of money for this service (and still today) | 21:59 |
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| Disconnect | tableteer link prompts for username/password. | 21:59 |
| Disconnect | n800.tableteer.nokia.com | 22:00 |
| Disconnect | camera autoloads the gchat app rather than, say, a picture-taking app | 22:02 |
| Disconnect | OS ver: Internet Tablet OS 2007 Edition 1.2006.47-20 | 22:02 |
| Disconnect | 2 sd slots - swap only on the internal one | 22:03 |
| arj | nice, can the browser show google site such as google calendar? | 22:03 |
| tko | hmm, nda's don't say much these days, do they? :-] | 22:04 |
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| arj | :-) | 22:04 |
| tko | not that I have any clue about the content of any nda's, but I'd suppose we're giving people some :) | 22:04 |
| * Disconnect isn't under nda - just bought one @ compusa ;) | 22:04 | |
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| Disconnect | someone forgot to tell them not to release it before the announcement :) | 22:05 |
| tko | ha ha | 22:05 |
| arj | thats typical of big chains | 22:06 |
| * koen wonders about the tech specs | 22:06 | |
| Disconnect | working on it | 22:06 |
| * Disconnect hasn't got scratchbox running anywhere atm | 22:07 | |
| koen | osso-xterm doesn't work? | 22:07 |
| Disconnect | but if someone wants to get me a static-linked xterm bin that'd help | 22:07 |
| koen | cat /proc/cpuinfo ; cat /proc/meminfo | 22:07 |
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| Disconnect | app-installer won't install it, needs libxau0 | 22:08 |
| Disconnect | (fyi on top of everything i'm still learning dvorak so my typing speed is near 0 today ;) ..) | 22:09 |
| * Disconnect ponders | 22:10 | |
| Disconnect | bora instead of mistral | 22:10 |
| lle | can't the browser see local files? | 22:10 |
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| Disconnect | sorta | 22:13 |
| Disconnect | /proc works, cpuinfo is blank | 22:13 |
| c0ffee | dmesg ? | 22:14 |
| MDK | heh | 22:14 |
| MDK | should not be blank | 22:15 |
| inz | Disconnect, the bora in maemo-hackers.org is built against herring | 22:15 |
| tko | maybe it's time-activated? shows real info only when officially possible? :) | 22:16 |
| MDK | heh | 22:16 |
| arj | haha | 22:16 |
| Disconnect | tableteer probably is | 22:16 |
| qgil | imagine someone in Ruoholahti has a red button that reboots all the new devices out there making them download and install the very last stuff | 22:17 |
| lle | or maybe the browser is being anal about content type | 22:17 |
| tko | qgil, sssh! | 22:17 |
| MDK | aren't we putting the darn specs somewhere in the manual? ;) | 22:17 |
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| MDK | one would think manual is exactly for this | 22:17 |
| inz | Disconnect, try with "http://maemo-hackers.org/apt bora main" for osso-xterm (and vte) | 22:18 |
| Disconnect | safety, battery, gpl, warranty | 22:18 |
| Disconnect | inz: updating now :) | 22:18 |
| tko | MDK, *user*'s manual with detailed specs? eh, right | 22:18 |
| inz | Disconnect, no guarantee it will work, but try =) | 22:18 |
| Disconnect | and the quickstart doesn1t even mention the internal mmc slot | 22:19 |
| MDK | tko: well, there is usually a last page with small-font specs in a table or something | 22:19 |
| Disconnect | "internal error. application x terminal closed" | 22:20 |
| MDK | at least, it used to be there at times when I read manuals | 22:20 |
| tko | CPU: yes, external memory: optional, ... | 22:20 |
| tko | but you're probably right | 22:20 |
| MDK | tko: buhaha | 22:20 |
| tko | can't recall when I'd last read manual that closely | 22:20 |
| tko | I usually just browse it through to see if there's some fancy features available somehow | 22:21 |
| MDK | Disconnect: I can send you the proper libvte | 22:21 |
| Disconnect | pdf onboard, checking it now | 22:21 |
| Disconnect | doesn't look good so far | 22:22 |
| inz | Disconnect, d0h | 22:23 |
| Disconnect | online link forwards to n80 page (as expected) | 22:24 |
| *** jtokash has joined #maemo | 22:24 | |
| jtokash | Did anyone pick up an n800 yet? | 22:24 |
| MDK | hah | 22:24 |
| MDK | Disconnect is playing with it | 22:25 |
| jtokash | Sweet | 22:25 |
| Disconnect | jtokash: i did, we're trying to get an xterm running | 22:25 |
| jtokash | Is it an improvement? should I go pick one up right now? | 22:25 |
| jtokash | faster? more ram? | 22:25 |
| MDK | Disconnect: I can send you the libvte that works with maemo-hackers terminal | 22:25 |
| jtokash | does it actually have dual mem slots? | 22:25 |
| jtokash | sorry for the questions, but my window for picking one up today is closing fast | 22:26 |
| Disconnect | yes | 22:26 |
| Disconnect | one in battery comp (mmc/sd) and one outside behind stand (same) | 22:27 |
| jtokash | does it seem faster? | 22:27 |
| jtokash | Can it do youtube? | 22:27 |
| jtokash | <shut up, John, let the guy enjoy his new 800!> | 22:27 |
| jtokash | sorry | 22:27 |
| Disconnect | 192M usable int storage | 22:27 |
| qgil | Disconnect went to buy it already, what advice do you think he has for you | 22:28 |
| Disconnect | lol | 22:28 |
| jtokash | dang | 22:29 |
| arj | I'm really eager to hear if the browser has been upgraded. Like if it works with google calendar | 22:29 |
| jtokash | Hopefully, software improvements like that will be available for the 770 | 22:30 |
| jtokash | :-) | 22:30 |
| jtokash | I'm wondering, too! | 22:30 |
| arj | exactly :) | 22:30 |
| jtokash | ok, the kids are ready for the car trip. I'm getting directions now. | 22:31 |
| MDK | Disconnect: sent | 22:31 |
| Disconnect | omfg youtube works | 22:31 |
| * Disconnect was not expecting that | 22:31 | |
| MDK | Disconnect: you need to enable redpill mode, install libvte + common, install maemo-hackers terminal (mistral) | 22:31 |
| jtokash | Damn, I'm on my way | 22:31 |
| arj | coolio | 22:31 |
| Disconnect | cool | 22:32 |
| wasabi_ | how much ram doeit have? | 22:32 |
| *** chiahsin has quit IRC | 22:35 | |
| Disconnect | grr ffox crashed | 22:36 |
| Disconnect | and youtube is way low framerate | 22:36 |
| Disconnect | audio has some glitches | 22:36 |
| *** wasabi__ has joined #maemo | 22:38 | |
| Disconnect | MDK: libvte4 0.12.1-1mh9bora2 already installed | 22:38 |
| jtokash | It's running Firefox? GREAT! | 22:38 |
| Disconnect | jtokash: its not running firefox, get a grip | 22:39 |
| koen | probably osso-fox | 22:39 |
| MDK | buhah | 22:39 |
| jtokash | oh, sorry | 22:39 |
| koen | or fire-osso | 22:39 |
| MDK | Disconnect: what do you mean? | 22:39 |
| Disconnect | MDK: that is the version already installed. and w/ no flash image i'm hesitant to brick it.. | 22:40 |
| koen | Disconnect: did you say simslot? | 22:40 |
| MDK | Disconnect: oh yeah, true... | 22:41 |
| Disconnect | no sim, 2x sd/mmc | 22:41 |
| Disconnect | fullsize finally | 22:41 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: try to open /dev/dsptask in a browser, does it show any files there? | 22:42 |
| koen | Disconnect: so we can do RAID1 over sd | 22:42 |
| * koen coughs | 22:42 | |
| Disconnect | lol | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | heh | 22:43 |
| Disconnect | MDK: jackpot | 22:44 |
| MDK | Disconnect: va bank? | 22:44 |
| Disconnect | "some random v6 processor rev 2 (v61)" | 22:44 |
| koen | ooooh | 22:45 |
| koen | armv6 | 22:45 |
| Disconnect | 320bogo | 22:45 |
| MDK | Disconnect: it works? | 22:45 |
| Disconnect | no clock info in cpuinfo | 22:45 |
| Disconnect | yah | 22:45 |
| Jaffa | What's the bogos on the 770? | 22:45 |
| koen | armv6 usually means vfp included | 22:46 |
| koen | and no more alignment problems | 22:46 |
| koen | and SIMD for ssvb :) | 22:46 |
| Disconnect | yah vfp | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | 125.76bogo on my 770 atm. | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | So, potentially twice as fast. | 22:46 |
| Disconnect | and a pile of stuff in dsptask | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: so, how did you get one? | 22:47 |
| Disconnect | compusa | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Ah :) | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: how much did it cost, btw? | 22:47 |
| Disconnect | i haxx0red them with my magic veeza card skillz | 22:47 |
| MDK | I guess you might be the first customer | 22:47 |
| Disconnect | $400 | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. | 22:47 |
| Disconnect | same as reported | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Oh, I hadn't seen the price reported - sorry. | 22:48 |
| Disconnect | np | 22:48 |
| Disconnect | gonna try to get kb working | 22:48 |
| Disconnect | whoo | 22:50 |
| Disconnect | bt kb works out of the box | 22:50 |
| Disconnect | 128M ram still | 22:50 |
| Jaffa | Disconnect: there's a "Bluetooth" applet in Control Panel, I believe? | 22:50 |
| Disconnect | yah | 22:51 |
| Disconnect | and a "hardware keyboard" one | 22:51 |
| Jaffa | Cool | 22:51 |
| * Disconnect is gonna try R&D mode | 22:51 | |
| MDK | Disconnect: 770 has 64mb | 22:51 |
| Disconnect | ah | 22:52 |
| arj | does the included headset have a microphone on it? | 22:52 |
| Disconnect | ok so 128 now | 22:52 |
| Disconnect | and yah i think so. checking. | 22:52 |
| Disconnect | looks like it | 22:52 |
| arj | nice | 22:52 |
| Disconnect | and a clicker | 22:52 |
| Disconnect | anyone want to try gchat audio/video? | 22:53 |
| *** Guardian has joined #maemo | 22:55 | |
| Disconnect | oooh blue light behind the dpad | 22:57 |
| *** thoughtfix has joined #maemo | 22:57 | |
| * thoughtfix stalks Disconnect | 22:57 | |
| * thoughtfix waves hello | 22:57 | |
| Disconnect | heya | 22:58 |
| thoughtfix | John gave me the news | 22:58 |
| thoughtfix | Can I ask for two small favors? | 22:58 |
| Disconnect | maybe (ok, certainly :) ..) | 22:58 |
| thoughtfix | cat /proc/cpuinfo and cat /proc/meminfo | 22:58 |
| koen | thoughtfix: armv6 and 128MB | 22:58 |
| thoughtfix | Best over Email ... I have the same username on Gmail | 22:58 |
| thoughtfix | BRB: tossing laundry in the machine for CES | 22:59 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: can you try to download and run this simple console application in xterm? http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/testfreq | 22:59 |
| thoughtfix | Man Disconnect is popular today :D | 22:59 |
| thoughtfix | This is my first time on IRC in months | 22:59 |
| Disconnect | thoughtfix: need more than what koen gave? | 23:00 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: it should run for about 30 seconds and display cpu clock frequency, it may be not very precise though | 23:00 |
| thoughtfix | disconnect: Only if it's useful :D | 23:02 |
| thoughtfix | Actually as awesome as this story is, I have to pack, clean, and call my mother. | 23:02 |
| Disconnect | sending now | 23:03 |
| thoughtfix | :D | 23:03 |
| thoughtfix | Disconnect: What's your first name? | 23:03 |
| thoughtfix | <-- Daniel | 23:03 |
| *** koen has quit IRC | 23:03 | |
| Disconnect | everyone generally calls me `dis` actually :) | 23:03 |
| tigert | hi thoughtfix | 23:03 |
| thoughtfix | Hi | 23:04 |
| MDK | hey tigert | 23:04 |
| thoughtfix | Okay ... making sure I give credit where credit is due | 23:04 |
| Disconnect | :) | 23:04 |
| Disconnect | gonna try r&d again, it didn't recognize the device | 23:05 |
| Disconnect | ssvb: gimme a sec, no wget :) | 23:06 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: :) | 23:06 |
| thoughtfix | Okay. .. I'm doing a side by side table now | 23:06 |
| qgil | tigert, thoughtfix... most of the bloggers starting with T and aggregated in my inTerneT TableT ;) | 23:07 |
| tigert | hi quim | 23:07 |
| Disconnect | 356.23 | 23:08 |
| Disconnect | 358.10 .. so 350ish | 23:08 |
| Disconnect | ergonomics are way up but armor is down (nothing but felt to protect screen | 23:09 |
| qgil | tigert: exactly in one week I will be spending my first family day (well, night) in Finland | 23:09 |
| * qgil can't wait | 23:10 | |
| ssvb | Disconnect: please try to download and run it again, I increased test time for better precision | 23:10 |
| Disconnect | ...and switching dvorak to qwerty and back repeatedly is giving me a headache | 23:10 |
| Disconnect | ok | 23:10 |
| tigert | qgil: good luck :) | 23:11 |
| tigert | qgil: the nokia ghetto of foreign workers seems pretty warm an fuzzy too, so you should be fine :) | 23:11 |
| MDK | haha | 23:12 |
| Disconnect | its certainly taking longer | 23:12 |
| Disconnect | 318.27 | 23:12 |
| Disconnect | running again | 23:12 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: then it's probably 320 (same as bogomips), on Nokia 770 cpu clock frequency is exactly twice higher than bogomips | 23:13 |
| qgil | tigert: I wonder if I would be allowed to pay some visits to Finnish houses, to see how the indigenous deal with the winter | 23:13 |
| MDK | hehe | 23:14 |
| MDK | "natives" | 23:14 |
| MDK | well, alko is your friend ;) | 23:14 |
| alump | thanks to global warming there is no winter anymore | 23:14 |
| alump | this is summer weather now ;) | 23:14 |
| MDK | qgil: it was +7 today | 23:15 |
| tigert | qgil: sure | 23:15 |
| tigert | qgil: one word: triple glass on windows | 23:16 |
| tigert | and good insulation | 23:16 |
| qgil | please keep the temperature just one week more, since we decided not to buy the Finnish winter clothes until arriving to Finland (and we arrive on Saturday night, when the shops are already closed) | 23:18 |
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| tigert | :) | 23:21 |
| tigert | the forecast is warmer again | 23:21 |
| thoughtfix | Disconnect: Thanks! http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2007/01/critical-question-answered-yes-n800-is.html | 23:21 |
| Disconnect | 317.9 on2nd run | 23:21 |
| MDK | qgil: in spain, there is no "winter" ? | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | :) | 23:22 |
| tigert | so the winter seems to delay itself | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | btw full sd, not mini | 23:22 |
| thoughtfix | Both are full SD? | 23:22 |
| qgil | define winter ;) | 23:22 |
| Disconnect | yep | 23:23 |
| MDK | qgil: snow, temperatures < 0C | 23:23 |
| Disconnect | comes w/ 128M mini-sd and adapter | 23:23 |
| thoughtfix | Thanks again | 23:23 |
| thoughtfix | Oh - probably for use with Nokia phones | 23:23 |
| thoughtfix | after all | 23:23 |
| thoughtfix | they want it to be a "phone extension" | 23:23 |
| thoughtfix | Fixed the post | 23:23 |
| Disconnect | way ligher than 770 too | 23:24 |
| Disconnect | roughly same thickness | 23:24 |
| Disconnect | (its swoopy vs the bricklike 770) | 23:24 |
| qgil | in the mountains snow yes (you can ski and all that), <0 C in many other parts as well but rarely during the day | 23:24 |
| arj | it would be interesting to see if it works with a bluetooth headset. | 23:25 |
| thoughtfix | Disconnect: People have been begging for a post just like the one I made since the first Nokia "870" pictures surfaced. Thanks for making it possible. | 23:25 |
| Disconnect | np :) | 23:25 |
| Disconnect | arj: send me one and i'll let you know ;) | 23:26 |
| qgil | but triple glass windows are only used in radio station to isolate the sound and people is not used to wear real winter clothes, so at the end of the day you might suffer more from cold tempeartures here than in Finland - specially at home | 23:26 |
| arj | heh | 23:26 |
| Disconnect | i wouldn't be surprised tho | 23:26 |
| MDK | qgil: somehow, you don't feel "cold" that much in finland | 23:27 |
| MDK | qgil: I mean, there were dew winter days in december | 23:27 |
| MDK | *few | 23:27 |
| MDK | the households usually have *very good* heating/isolation | 23:27 |
| MDK | that's my experience when comparing to Poland, which is just a bit "warmer" | 23:28 |
| Disconnect | supposed to be stereo speakers onboard | 23:28 |
| tigert | yeah, indoors it is VERY cozy here | 23:29 |
| thoughtfix | Okay ... REALLY have to get packed and prepared. | 23:29 |
| tigert | its much worse on other countries on cold weather | 23:29 |
| thoughtfix | Take care all - next time you hear from me will be in Vegas! | 23:29 |
| tigert | because the houses here are built for cold | 23:29 |
| Disconnect | heh have fun! | 23:29 |
| thoughtfix | Disconnect: thank you again for punching in those commands! | 23:29 |
| tigert | thoughtfix: have fun, it's an crazy place | 23:29 |
| Disconnect | np :) | 23:29 |
| * tigert was there once during COMDEX | 23:29 | |
| tigert | crazy place | 23:30 |
| qgil | thoughtfix: "snag" | 23:30 |
| thoughtfix | tigert: CES is crazy, but the presence of my whole family there at the same time makes it doubly so. | 23:30 |
| thoughtfix | Snag? | 23:30 |
| thoughtfix | SNOG? | 23:30 |
| qgil | according to Disconnect, he bought it | 23:30 |
| thoughtfix | we just met! | 23:30 |
| tigert | thoughtfix: :) | 23:30 |
| tigert | thoughtfix: been there before? | 23:30 |
| thoughtfix | tigert: To Vegas? Once, when I as 18 ... not since | 23:31 |
| tigert | your kids will love the painted sky ceilings on the casino restaurants | 23:31 |
| thoughtfix | I have no kids that I admit to. | 23:31 |
| tigert | oh | 23:31 |
| tigert | mistook the "whole family" | 23:31 |
| tigert | :) | 23:31 |
| thoughtfix | qgil: Oh ... I put "snag" in there because I'm jealous. | 23:31 |
| tigert | sorry about that :) | 23:31 |
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| thoughtfix | tigert: http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2007/01/ces-emergency.html <- that's what I am referrng to. | 23:31 |
| thoughtfix | re: presence of family. | 23:32 |
| qgil | ok, I thought you wanted to report this detail | 23:32 |
| tigert | thoughtfix: oh ok | 23:32 |
| qgil | since you seem to be accurately in your (interesting) blog posts | 23:32 |
| tigert | thoughtfix: sorry about the loss :/ | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | SB device found found at bus 004, device address 005 | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | Found device RX-34, hardware revision 1301 | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | NOLO version 1.1.2 | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | Version of 'sw-release': RX-34_2007SE_1.2006.47-20_PR_MR0 | 23:32 |
| Disconnect | The device is now in R&D mode | 23:32 |
| *** Guardian has quit IRC | 23:32 | |
| thoughtfix | My parents, uncles and their families, brother, ssster and her family | 23:33 |
| thoughtfix | qgil: fixed. | 23:33 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: One more test please :) http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/testmemspeed | 23:33 |
| desrt | qgil; any idea when they'll start selling the n800 and for how much? :) | 23:33 |
| thoughtfix | Now if more people clicked ads, I could blog full time and quit the sysadmin management crap. | 23:33 |
| thoughtfix | Okay ... REALLY leaving now | 23:33 |
| thoughtfix | talk to you all soon | 23:33 |
| thoughtfix | tigert: thanks | 23:34 |
| * thoughtfix waves | 23:34 | |
| qgil | Disconnect got one today for 400 USD - (s)he says | 23:34 |
| *** thoughtfix has quit IRC | 23:34 | |
| desrt | pricey. | 23:34 |
| ssvb | Disconnect: for Nokia 770 the numbers are: 122.40MB/s 275.94MB/s 103.48MB/s 68.99MB/s (I wonder how much better is the new device) | 23:34 |
| Disconnect | he :) | 23:34 |
| desrt | Disconnect; how much ram is in the thing? | 23:35 |
| Disconnect | 405.9 408.54 132.73 133.86 | 23:35 |
| Disconnect | desrt: 128. http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2007/01/critical-question-answered-yes-n800-is.html | 23:35 |
| Disconnect | 408.54 408.54 133.29 134.43 | 23:36 |
| desrt | Disconnect; thanks for the link | 23:36 |
| desrt | 128 is a bit disappointing. alas. | 23:36 |
| desrt | it's like the absolute minimum that they could have done without forcing people to not buy it :) | 23:37 |
| Disconnect | grr in r&d mode the bt keyboard doesn't reset the screen-blank timeout | 23:37 |
| desrt | i can seriously see myself buying one of these things. | 23:38 |
| desrt | support for full-sized SD card is a very nice feature | 23:38 |
| MDK | btw, what is compusa? Is it a big store/network? | 23:41 |
| tigert | yes | 23:41 |
| Disconnect | nationwide retail chain | 23:41 |
| tigert | compusa.com | 23:41 |
| tigert | its like the Verkkokauppa of USA :) | 23:41 |
| tigert | except they have lots of physical stores | 23:42 |
| MDK | tigert: that says it all ;) | 23:42 |
| tigert | where verkkokauppa sells over the net | 23:42 |
| tigert | but I guess you can order online too. but pretty much every shopping mall in the USA has a CompUSA | 23:42 |
| tigert | or BestBUY | 23:42 |
| tigert | thats the other big one | 23:42 |
| alump | compusa has only 229 stores (wikipedia)? | 23:43 |
| tigert | its big anywa | 23:43 |
| tigert | y | 23:43 |
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| tigert | perhaps not the biggest, but big "enough" | 23:43 |
| alump | where bestbut has 1100 | 23:43 |
| tigert | yep | 23:43 |
| MDK | Disconnect: was there any "stand" or something like that? | 23:46 |
| MDK | Disconnect: or just a plain box? | 23:46 |
| MDK | any promotional banner? | 23:46 |
| Disconnect | nothing - he had to get it from the back | 23:46 |
| Disconnect | knew what it was and such tho | 23:46 |
| Disconnect | 770 still on display too | 23:47 |
| tigert | oh, I thouhgt you meant the flimsy table stand I replaced with this: | 23:48 |
| tigert | that the 770 had that I never liked | 23:48 |
| Disconnect | its got a built in table stand. not bad actually | 23:48 |
| tigert | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/311054649/ | 23:48 |
| tigert | ^^ this rox0rs :) | 23:48 |
| tigert | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/311054647/in/photostream/ | 23:48 |
| Disconnect | bt is actually reasonable now. send/recv files, etc | 23:50 |
| keesj | tigert, yep! | 23:53 |
| pahartik | Disconnect: is Bluetooth PAN supported by GUI? | 23:53 |
| qgil | tigert: you should talk to Pepsi or Becks for a sponsored Internet Tablet stand | 23:54 |
| tigert | qgil: :) | 23:54 |
| tigert | okay. must take the dogs out for a poo | 23:54 |
| tigert | later! :)) | 23:54 |
| Disconnect | dunno, no pan here | 23:55 |
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| * Pierre is back (gone 03:19:57) | 23:58 | |
| Disconnect | anyone got a password for n800.tableteer.com? msg me | 23:59 |
| Disconnect | :) | 23:59 |
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