IRC log of #maemo-devel for Friday, 2010-09-17

« Thursday, 2010-09-16 Index Saturday, 2010-09-18 »
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MNZDocScrutinizer, sorry for the delay but I was fixing a funny bug that came around due to a slight api change earlier :D01:12
MNZpull the latest code01:12
MNZthe setcoeffs.c example isn't really useful for a script because you have to recompile the code to change coeffs01:13
MNZI haven't written a proper utility for setting/calculating coeffs yet01:13
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MNZDocScrutinizer, do tell me when/if you try the code please. Any input is appreciated.01:32
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tetHi ! Simple question : "Where are the icons stored on the N900" ? /etc/usr/share/icons just doesn't exist (even there is a symlink poiting that folder ...)12:24
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: thanks :-)13:08
DocScrutinizerMNZ: I asked in #meego-arm, when said person was posting about some PA stuff 10s before, but alas: no answer :-/. Pointed to your work, answer "we might eventually have to look at that" (well they do now :-) ) Also some persons claimed they don't want tot talk to me anymore, due to my shitty attitude, so don't surprised if things don't happen as suggested by you13:10
MNZwhy is everything so complicated with meego :S I thought it was supposed to be more open13:13
DocScrutinizerin fact it's more closed and hostile - but you're not allowed to bitch about it13:14
DocScrutinizerthe code is 'open', the mindset of most people is 'closed workgroup'13:14
lcuknot closed or hostile, just more formal13:15
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MNZactually I was quite surprised you did not reply to Stskeeps the other day (or did I miss it?).13:15
MNZand I agree with lcuk, more formal. Because generally it feels like they want people to join in, but then things go like "we'll look at your patch, we just have more pressing matters now"13:16
DocScrutinizeror ... (witch means, we've noticed your contribution but we have more pressing affairs now than simply answering)13:18
DocScrutinizerthis has happened to me now several times one form or another, so in my book that's hostile13:19
DocScrutinizernot to use stronger terms13:20
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DocScrutinizeralso very popular: (wait)...(wait)... "you know foobar?"13:22
DocScrutinizers/foobar/ whatever useless and mostly unknown fact/person/whatever - usually nothing that helps in any form13:22
MNZmeh I'm already quite put off by meego, but really it seems they are progressing and I expect things will be more friendly once stuff is more stable and people with write access to the repos have more time to look at community contributions13:23
DocScrutinizerwhy has meego decided to use PA? Answer: you're free to change that once we got it ready and shipping, send patches!13:26
DocScrutinizeror simply13:27
DocScrutinizerUPSTREAM!13:27
DocScrutinizeror13:27
DocScrutinizerUPSTREAM?13:27
DocScrutinizerhell I not even have a clue about their policy regarding board specific drivers13:28
MNZI got the impression that they use the mainline kernel with some minimal patching. So you either have to get patches into their 'upstream' or mainline kernel :/13:29
DocScrutinizerwhich is pretty hard to impossible for shit that's boar specific13:30
DocScrutinizerand for selection/setup of components (see ALSA vs PA) it's not an upstream issue at all, it's generally a decision of the distro maintainer13:32
MNZI'm not familiar with board specific stuff outside of ALSA SoC, in which case there is actually a codec -> platform(board) -> machine separation of code, and that would imply board and machine specific code is welcome for ASoC.13:32
DocScrutinizerand exactly those maintainer owned decisions they seem not particularly inclined to discuss. Seems those are done by the legendary three dudes in a night session in a pub13:35
DocScrutinizerwhich gives me the feeling it's not our (community) distro, it's *their* distro13:36
DocScrutinizerexactly like maemo, just they always pretend it is completely different13:37
MNZIn any case, this is taking a turn into politics, and that's one thing I do not like in open source communities.13:37
MNZThe meego attitude is a bit demotivating, but I'm doing this even if it's going to be a few people 'hacking' their devices to get better audio13:38
DocScrutinizerwe probably even should keep it out of this channel13:38
MNZThe work we're doing on PA, if it is beneficial, will come in handy for both maemo and meego. And that keeps me motivated13:38
DocScrutinizerack, same here13:38
TheXceptionwill maemo co-exist with meego or will one be stopped in developing?13:39
DocScrutinizermaemo almost stopped developing13:39
DocScrutinizerat least from Nokia13:40
lcukmaemo supports pretty much any app wanted13:40
MNZone of the things I like about open source (or half-open source :/) is that you can't really 'stop' a project once it's in the wild13:40
DocScrutinizerexactly, that's why I think it will live on happily13:40
lcukMNZ, :)13:41
lcukOSS projects don't "die" they go dormant13:41
DocScrutinizerMNZ: your wording is better than mine :-d13:41
DocScrutinizer:-D13:41
MNZso even when Nokia support dies further, there will be people using and developing maemo. Unless meego turns out to be satisfactory and the attitude lightens up significantly, in which case people will eventually flock there. But not everyone is positive about that :P13:41
TheXceptionbecause i started a bit developing and i'm up on the question work directly with meego or keep on maemo13:42
lcukmnz even then making a nice app that abides by the qt mantra should allow easy transposition13:42
TheXceptionso it's more personal attitude which one you choose?13:42
DocScrutinizerTheXception: for now meego is a hostile place for app developers13:42
MNZTheXception, like lcuk said, go Qt and have the ability to support both13:42
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lcukdebian and ubuntu are different oses really13:42
lcukbut you can write and use the same apps in both13:43
TheXceptionwith meamo sdk or nokia  qt sdk?13:43
lcukagreed, slightly closer to each other13:43
TheXceptionboth have the possibility for both platforms?13:43
lcukdepends what you want to do13:43
TheXceptionthen it seems i have to read a bit more about both of them before thinking about that again13:45
DocScrutinizerTheXception: yesterday's maemo-discussion had a topic about making it easier for maemo app developers to eventually migrate to meego (aiui), dunno what's been agreed upon wrt that13:46
lcuksure13:46
TheXceptionDocScrutinizer: on mailing-list or in channel?13:47
DocScrutinizerchan13:47
TheXceptionok thx will have a look at the logs13:47
MNZDocScrutinizer, I believe if we can show solid undeniable proof of better and more power efficient audio done with no PA then it would just be a matter of time for getting things into 'upstream'13:48
MNZthe problem is after mulling over what ohsix from #alsa said, I have come to what essentially is a minimal PA implemented as an alsa plugin :/ and I'm not sure that that's a good thing13:50
MNZminimal pa = new alsa plugin that replaces both dmix and sofvol. alsa control registered for volume control per app + setting appropriate rate for output + mixing13:51
MNZnow it would make more sense to see what is wrong with simply using PA to do this, but replacing the closed source mods13:51
DocScrutinizeryour statement "why don't they fix ALSA instead of using PS" has more sound reasoning to me13:53
DocScrutinizers/PS/PA13:53
MNZyes, but that was applicable only when the PA devs first decided to write PA :D13:54
DocScrutinizerok, point13:54
MNZnow that we have PA already....13:55
DocScrutinizerthe effort to kick PA out of maemo now seems has a devastating expense/benefit ratio13:55
MNZI'm just unsure if it would be easier to 'fix' PA, write a new open source mod, and all that. OR start over with alsa plugin(s)13:55
MNZand I REALLY want to leverage the HW here, this APE centric BS is not convincing me at all13:56
DocScrutinizeryup13:56
MNZSo speech processing can be done, at least partially, with the codec filters13:57
MNZand I have just found out today what the second codec is used for.... :/13:57
MNZ(the aic34 is made of two codecs)13:57
DocScrutinizerI know I know13:58
MNZit's used as an amp for the earpeice13:58
DocScrutinizerbasically, yes13:58
MNZwe actually have a four block parametric EQ then! :D13:58
DocScrutinizeron earpiece only :-P13:58
MNZdoes it matter for speaker output?13:59
MNZit's already pretty shitty13:59
DocScrutinizerbbl14:00
MNZok14:01
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tetHey ! Do someone have a idea of what i can use to replace a "spin button" by something on Hildon ? (PyGtk Hildon UI) hildon.NumberEditor looks deprecated and Gtk.spinButton doesn't work :/18:17
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