IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-10-25

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NINJAELECHello, I'm new. Would you please tell me why the Image writer won't show my USB stick to write on?04:49
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NINJAELECanybody here. Please I need help04:54
NINJAELEC????04:54
qtI'm here, but I really have no idea about this. Sorry.04:55
NINJAELECok04:55
NINJAELECyoiu need help too04:55
NINJAELEC?04:55
qtNot really. :)04:57
NINJAELECthen could you tell me of you got meego bootong on an Intel Atom computer. Bacause I m having a porblem withthat04:58
NINJAELECbootin04:59
NINJAELECbooting04:59
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qtsorry, I haven't do some meego stuff about BSP yet.05:04
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qtjust Qt now.05:04
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mase_worklo all06:52
mase_worki'm contemplating getting a nokia N9 and wondered how if anyone knew how compatible it was with regular meego ?06:53
mase_workbasically i am looking for a phone that i can flash / run the latest build(s) of meego on06:53
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lpottermase_work: dont think the N9 is custom image flashable... yet07:07
lpotterbesides, harmattan works much better than meego :)07:08
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mase_worki see07:11
mase_workso what is meego used for then ?07:12
mase_workie what platform are all the developers actually deploying it on07:12
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dm8tbrmase_work: yes you can run MeeGo CE on it, hopefully soon there will be also MOSLO for N9 to make it easier07:33
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dm8tbrto get an idea, check this http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N95007:34
iekkumorning07:36
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dm8tbrmoaning07:40
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mase_workMOSLO ?07:41
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mase_workchecking out the link07:41
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mase_workdm8tbr: do you know if there is much of a developer community around the n9 ? If i got an N9 i'd probably want to write applications for it rather than hacking on the os too much07:45
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mase_workand i doubt my skills would be sufficient to work on the os at all tbh07:45
dm8tbrbut you asked for flashing the 'latest builds of meego'?07:46
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dm8tbrand yes, there is an active community, some of us hang out on #harmattan07:47
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jonwilAnyone here any good with automake/autoconf/dpkg?08:46
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IanWizard-CloudHey guys :)09:33
IanWizard-CloudI'm back :P09:33
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sasulAnyone here expecting the future of Meego? and QT?10:28
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Stskeepsqt continues, meego not so much, some go to tizen (www.tizen.org), some go to Mer, www.merproject.org, meego 1.2 still gets fixes though10:29
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sasulIs tizen use qt?10:29
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Stskeepsi think it's possible to install, but noone knows anything useful and public about tizen, except that it's HTML5 centri10:30
Stskeepsc10:30
IanWizard-Cloud1.3 got cut?10:31
diverse_izzuehi folks, i'm considering to buy a nokia n9. i'm wondering whether nokia is planning software updates for that phone. especially, i would be interested in getting chinese language input on a model sold in europe. does anyone here have information on that?10:31
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Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: no idea about chinese input, possibly in an update - i've seen commercials with chinese input in it10:32
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diverse_izzueStskeeps, thanks.10:34
sasulStskeeps, thanks, too.10:34
meegomymeego not solid yet... & ppl start moving out to tizen & stuff10:34
diverse_izzuewhat about meego 1.3 in general. what will that bring? when? will that be for n9 devices?10:34
Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: meego 1.3 is a dead fish, in practice, the N9 runs a nokia meego, so your updates will come from nokia10:35
Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: if you're into hacking your phone, people are already doing different systems for it10:35
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meegomyyeah.. better stick to nokia meego10:36
diverse_izzueStskeeps, you mean at some point down the road it may be possible for me to install a tizen or something?10:36
Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: the phone is hackable, but it requires people putting effort into giving you it, and the experience may not be as good as out of the box10:36
diverse_izzuewhen you say 1.3=dead fish, you mean i won't be released?10:36
Stskeepscorrect10:37
diverse_izzueStskeeps, i know that, i'm using cyanogenmod currently :-D10:37
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diverse_izzueso basically i would expect the feature set of an N9 that I buy now to stay constant over time10:37
Stskeepsi think you can expect more features when there's updates to the device10:38
Stskeepsit'll of course flatten out over time10:38
meegomyN9 too much limitation already10:38
diverse_izzuegood, but nokia doesn't seem to be very communicative about that. whom to ask?10:38
meegomyno full language input support yet10:38
diverse_izzuemeegomy, that's exactly my worry, i would like to have chinese language input.10:38
Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: sales representatives, but typically nokia doesn't talk much about updates before they come..10:38
diverse_izzueok10:39
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Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cChiOsiEaog&feature=player_embedded10:39
diverse_izzuedoes anyone here know meego/n9 well enough to say how well it fares as a business phone, i.e. how well it integrates with company mail/calendar systems?10:39
Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: supposedly it has exchange support10:39
diverse_izzuethat's what it says on the website, yes10:40
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Stskeepsdiverse_izzue: video hints on chinese support, at least10:41
Stskeepseven in input10:41
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diverse_izzuetrue. but my e51 was delivered elsewhere in the world w/ chinese language input yet i never saw it on my device...10:43
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meegomydiverse, the n950 have almost all the language input support10:43
meegomysoon it will come to n9\10:44
meegomyunless u know how 2 flash ur phone to HK or china region10:44
diverse_izzuemeegomy, what will soon come to n9?10:46
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meegomychinese input support i mean10:48
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diverse_izzuemeegomy, is that a suspicion of yours or do you actually know?10:52
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meegomymy guess is the more language support will release to N910:54
meegomyas i could see from N95010:54
meegomydun ask me when, i not the one who release the update10:55
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GreatgibJust for your information about the future of  the N9. I heard from commercial people of nokia that they are still watching the market for the feedback on the N9.12:19
GreatgibSo if it is a best seller, and it has a lot of good reviews, they maybe will continue developing "nokia meego" phones or start to sell the N9 in countries firstly dedicated to windows phones.12:20
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phaeronGreatgib: do you have any proof about what you are saying ?12:24
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Greatgibphaeron: no I just told you what commercial guys of the france division of Nokia told me. Just to say that if you like the N9 or want it not to be the last nokia device of meego, don't hesitate to say it instead of wondering.12:26
phaeronok12:26
Greatgibphaeron: but I think that it is a general fact anyway that companies react to market. As the N9 is some kind of a trial, i can't think of Nokia stopping it if it is a success.12:27
decibytethat's great if it's true12:27
RST38hAlready reported not to be true12:28
decibyte:'(12:28
RST38hElop explicitely said that he will not continue with Maemo/Meego no matter what12:28
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Stskeepsmeego naming is dead no matter what12:31
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meegomyyes it is12:35
meegomyits up to community to support it or not12:35
Stskeepsi'm not sure community would want a brand even its parents have shitted on12:36
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CosmoHill.o/12:51
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GreatgibRST38h: not sure, they said melteimi will be some sort of light meego for s4013:00
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decibyte:w13:10
Stskeeps:q13:10
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CosmoHill:x13:11
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CosmoHilllooking at two recuritment agencies atm, one only seems to be hiring for itself and has lots of cheesy smiling people on the front page and the other throws up SQL errors13:17
brikfind a third option or skip the recruitment agencies?13:18
* nibbler mumbles something about modern days slave trading.13:22
CosmoHillI'm trying to think of who might use HPC clusters13:25
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SpeedEvilThe met office.13:34
jonwilI think that as long as the cell carriers have the power they currently do, we will never see a really successful wide-spread handset running a true linux platform13:34
SpeedEviljon13:34
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SpeedEvilI dunno.13:35
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SpeedEvilThe n900 was moderately 'true'.13:35
SpeedEvilAnd it was available on a number of contracts.13:35
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jonwilok, substitute "open" for "linux". Android pretends to be open but its not.13:36
jonwilN900 was the only truly open phone that was anywhere near mainstream13:36
jonwiland compared to Android and iPhone and etc, its not all that widely used13:36
SpeedEvilIndeed.13:36
jonwilMotorola have explicitly said that it was Verizon that wanted bootloader locking on the new Motorola Droid RAZR and not Motorola13:37
npmmaybe android is as open as it can be? http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/10/20/google-confirms-android-40-ics-open-source/13:37
jonwilThe code may be available13:37
SpeedEvilThe code isn't the point.13:37
jonwilThe problem with 99% of android handsets is that you cant replace the software13:37
SpeedEvilThe problem is that you can't market an android phone that users expect without the market app.13:37
npmlet me know when you've got opened meego/tizen drivers for all graphics hardware13:38
SpeedEvilAnd the maps app.13:38
SpeedEvilWhich are closed.13:38
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nialahello13:38
SpeedEvilAnd you can't get those without complying with googles exacting hardware requirement hoops.13:38
jonwilthe closed apps arent the problem, the problem with Android is that most phones have bootloader locks13:38
SpeedEvilWhich go _way_ beyond reasonable.13:38
jonwilGoogle doesn't require bootloader locking13:38
jonwilCarriers do13:38
npmthe nokia harmattan maps application is closed source too. you can access the widget and code from the qml but the legality of that is questionable13:38
SpeedEvilThe bootloader locking isn't the problem.13:39
SpeedEvil(IMO)13:39
SpeedEvilYou could have a fairly free android system, if it wasn't for the google hardware requirements.13:39
CosmoHillSpeedEvil: the met office or MOD it seems13:39
SpeedEvilCosmoHill: Boeing.13:39
CosmoHillI'm actually looking through the UK top500 clusters atm13:39
* SpeedEvil wishes CFD was easy.13:40
jonwilWhat hardware requirements for Android make it so hard?13:40
SpeedEvilAll I want is a nice easy to use CFD package that lets me analyse hypersonic shocks, and two phase flow.13:40
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SpeedEviljonwil: Basically google determines exactly what is required on the handset for it to licence the google apps.13:41
SpeedEvilAnd may almost arbitrarily change requirements, if it doesn't like you.13:41
npmSpeedEvil: you looking for that on the handset?13:41
SpeedEvilnpm: no.13:41
npmre analysis of waveforms?13:41
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SpeedEvilnpm: Interested in simulating rockets.13:42
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CosmoHillwow, asda have a computer ranked 35213:42
npmcan you simulate this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Railgun_usnavy_2008.jpg13:42
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jonwilGiven all the hardware requirements Google enforces, I wonder why they dont enforce more software requirements such as banning handsets from shipping older versions of Android if they want Google apps on it13:43
SpeedEvilhttp://thisismynext.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-lawsuit-motorola-samsung/13:43
SpeedEvilSee that.13:43
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SpeedEvilHow google reacts if you don't use android in the right way.13:44
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SpeedEvilA licence is for example time-limited.13:44
SpeedEvilIf google decides they don't like you, they don't have to continue to let you use google apps after it expires.13:44
npminteresting.13:45
jonwilI am surprised also that Google doesn't mandate that Android vendors must ship Google as the default search engine (given that Google makes money from handsets that have Google as default search and they dont make as much when Yahoo or Bing are the default search)13:46
npmthat is of course a problem w/ all "cloud based" services.13:46
npmfor example apple's siri doesn't work properly internationally. only in US.13:46
SpeedEvilnpm: It's not a cloud issue.13:46
npmit's a closed cloud issue13:46
npmor closed service issue13:46
SpeedEvilnpm: The issue is that you can't have the 'drive' 'app-store' on the phone if you don't comply.13:46
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npmand chances are if you don't comply, you can't just access the closed cloud service, which is all that matters (aka you can't reverse engineer or open-source engineer a solution)13:48
npmthus ultimately a closed service issue13:48
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SpeedEvilIt's a closed issue - it's not a cloud issue IMO.13:49
npmlikewise, if you want to make siri work as well outside of the US as it does in the US... good luck13:49
SpeedEvilIIRC, drive can be used completely offline, in some cases.13:49
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npmi would imagine the "drive" would store keys/etc to enable apps to run13:50
npmand would need to use those keys "offline"13:50
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npmactually the smartest thing to do these days is not to be in the handset battle to spill blood over 0.001% changes, but find new opportunities: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/technology/at-nest-labs-ex-apple-leaders-remake-the-thermostat.html?partner=rss&emc=rss13:53
SpeedEvilErr - no, 'drive' is a shiny navigation GPS.13:53
npmoh i thought you meantdrive13:54
npmas in some kind of encrypted storage for android13:54
SpeedEvilIf you don't have it - and you don't have the market app, your device will not usually ship in large numbers. Hence why being open source is a red herring.13:55
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DocScrutinizeras with HARM14:03
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npmwhat a shitty year http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15444222 (John McCarthy, RIP)17:11
Stskeepsthey are all being included into the technological singularity17:12
npmfirst the worse-is-betters dies, then the better-is-betters dies :-/17:12
npm( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better )17:13
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* npm believes both is better, which is why I like Qt and QML17:15
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npmspeaking of QML, is there a standard way of exposing QLocale to QML ??17:20
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npmor alternately, getting back some semblance of the language environment as a string?17:20
* RST38h wonders when Java/XML/XSLT/XSD/etc inventors will start heading toward the singularity17:21
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slaineAnyone able to load the meego conf videos ?17:51
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slainedmaroto21: hey17:53
dmaroto21hi17:53
slaineRight, so you've got an error when doing the rpmbuild17:53
dmaroto21i'm an absolute newbie17:53
dmaroto21sorry17:54
slaineright. hmmmm17:54
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slaineI don't have a meego box to hand at the moment17:54
dmaroto21I was following your guide in the website17:54
slainenod17:54
slaineBroadcom change the url every once in while17:54
dmaroto21aha17:54
dmaroto21I understand that I still need to download this17:55
dmaroto21 wget http://slaine.org/meego/releases/1.2/ia32/source/wl-kmod-5.100.82.38-1.src.rpm17:55
dmaroto21and then17:55
dmaroto21do that17:55
dmaroto21rpm -ivh <path/to/.src.rpm>17:55
dmaroto21go to the rpmbuid folder17:56
RST38hlow poer BT spec is out17:56
RST38hpower17:56
slainedmaroto21: yup17:56
dmaroto21rpmbuild/RPMS and edit the wl-kmod.spec17:57
slaineNo17:57
slainerpmbuild/SPECS17:57
slainein there is a wl.spec17:57
dmaroto21yes, sorry17:57
dmaroto21rpmbuild/SPECS17:57
slaineAt the top of the SPEC file there's 2 urls, iirc17:57
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slaineOne points to the Broadcom license text and the other is the url of the broad com driver17:57
slaineCAn you paste in the url to the license here17:57
slaineI can use that to get the correct url for the driver.17:58
dmaroto21well, I just can see one url to the boradcom website17:58
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dmaroto21the one for the driver, but I can't see any for the license17:59
slainedon't worry about it17:59
slaineChange the url to the file to http://www.broadcom.com/docs/linux_sta/hybrid-portsrc_x86_32-v5_100_82_111.tar.gz17:59
dmaroto21and my file is a wl-mod.spec17:59
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dmaroto21done :)18:01
slaineok, then18:01
slainerpmbuild -bb wl.spec18:01
slaineor wl-mod.spec :) (it's been a while since I looked at it)18:02
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dmaroto21ok, no probs18:02
dmaroto21When I do that a message18:03
dmaroto21Reversed patch detected! Assume -R? [n]18:03
dmaroto21yes or no?18:03
slaineHmmm18:03
slaineSo it downloaded ok ?18:03
slaineyou saw it do a wget on the source18:03
slaineWhich patch is it saying it  needs to reverse ?18:04
dmaroto21no wget18:04
slaineit should have to get to this step18:04
slaineit's probably scrolled past18:04
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dmaroto21it doesn't look like anything like a wget18:05
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slainewell, it's got source, it's trying to patch it18:05
slainepress n18:06
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dmaroto21asks Apply anyway?18:06
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dmaroto21I reckon yes18:06
slaineN18:07
slaineit doesn't need the changes18:07
slainethey've clearly fixed their driver18:07
dmaroto21ok18:07
slaineyou might get asked a second time18:07
dmaroto211 out of 1 hunk ignored...18:08
slainegood18:08
dmaroto21error: bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.xeXiGY (%prep)18:08
slainegah18:08
dmaroto21RPM build error:18:08
slainelets edit the spec file again18:08
dmaroto21the same error18:08
dmaroto21ok18:08
slaineactually, first, paste the console output to pastebin18:09
slainen18:09
dmaroto21pastebin?18:10
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slainepastebin.com18:11
slaineweb site18:11
slainepaste lots of content there, then give us the url18:11
dmaroto21ok, cool18:11
dmaroto21sorry, never use it before18:11
slaineno probs18:12
dmaroto21mm…. pastebin.com/fwcTvCj918:18
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dmaroto21that's the content of wl-mod.spec18:20
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slainedmaroto21: I want the output from the rpmbuild command18:30
slaineSo I can see the error18:30
slaineHowever, we may as well change the spec file to not try and patch18:31
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slainelook for two lines that should be start like18:32
slaine%patch018:32
slaineand18:32
slaine%patch118:32
slainecomment those out18:32
dmaroto21pastebin.com/Epb6dmYM18:34
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dmaroto21pastebin.com/EPb6dmYM18:34
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slainedmaroto21: ok, comment out the line with %patch018:35
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slaineand try again18:37
dmaroto21now seems better18:37
dmaroto21it exits with a 018:37
slaineyou should have an rpm in A18:38
slainesorry18:38
slainein ~/rpmbuild/RPMS/i58618:38
dmaroto21indeed18:39
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dmaroto21actually 2, one says debuginfo...18:39
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slaineyou don't need to install that one18:41
slainesudo rpm -ivh ~/rpmbuild/RPMS/i596/wl-mod…rpm18:41
dmaroto21YES18:42
dmaroto21thank you VERY VERY MUCH18:42
slaineyour welcome18:43
dmaroto21I just installed me ego yesterday18:43
dmaroto21and I really love it18:43
* slaine wonders who should tell him18:43
dmaroto21That was the missing piece and now it is even more awesome18:44
slaineif you apply any kernel updates from meego, you'll need to rebuild the rpm, erase the one that's installed and reinstall the newly built one18:45
dmaroto21ok, I think I'll be able to do that18:46
dmaroto21thanks again for your help18:46
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dmaroto21BTW, is it true that meego is a finished product18:46
dmaroto21??18:46
slaineit should just be a case of re running the rpmbuild -bb wl-mod.spec step18:46
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slainedmaroto21: Finished as in Canceled, yes18:46
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dmaroto21I read something this morning about a new project starting18:47
slainecheckout http://meego.com18:47
slainethere's a what's next for meego link18:47
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dmaroto21yeah, it looks like Tizen will be the future18:48
dmaroto21well, I'll get stick to it for a while18:48
dmaroto21and we'll see18:48
dmaroto21I'll keep an eye on the website18:49
dmaroto21I have to go now18:49
dmaroto21a real pleasure, thanks again for your time18:49
dmaroto21bye!18:50
slainesee ye18:50
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jedixStskeeps: around?20:45
jedixI'm trying to setup a project that rebuilds another project like I did before but using my newly created rebuild20:46
CosmoHill~seen Stskeeps20:46
infobotstskeeps <~cvm@Maemo/community/distmaster/Stskeeps> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 1h 16m 31s ago, saying: ':P'.20:46
CosmoHillthat bot gets everywhere20:46
jedixthanks!20:46
jedixso it's a Raw Config issue..20:49
jedixactually, I might have gotten it20:50
jedixI have a <link project=.. then a <repository linkedbuild="localdep" name=, then the path is to my other project20:50
jedixnow almost all packages are "excluded"20:51
* CosmoHill smiles and nods and prepares dinner20:51
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jedixI see..20:53
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* CosmoHill goes for dinner20:55
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jedixso I guess I need ot know why all my packages are being excluded..21:01
jedixno idea how to figure that out21:01
berndhsjedix: one reason for "excluded" is that the files needed for building aren't all there21:02
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berndhsjedix: e.g. for rpm builds, no mypacakge.spec, or for debian builds, no mypackage_1.2.3.dsc21:04
jedixberndhs: wouldn't that be reported as "unresolved" or something?21:04
jedixberndhs: this package is a link to a package that built21:04
berndhsno, unresolved is missing dependencies in the package21:05
jedixall of them all21:05
jedixberndhs: is there any osc command that I can get mroe info?21:05
berndhsprobably, but I don't know which one :/21:05
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jedixokay, thanks21:06
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jedixI tried checking out one of them locally and building with osc, but that doesn't seem to work with linked packages21:06
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jedixI branched one package and it built21:21
jedixI resubmitted it and it built21:21
jedixzero changes21:21
berndhsso blame the linking feature ?21:24
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jedixI don't know21:27
jedixbecause it works for my other project21:27
jedixI'm really not sure.21:27
jedixnothing provides ld-linux.so.3 needed by qt-static-devel, nothing provides ld-linux.so.3(GLIBC_2.4) needed by qt-static-devel, nothing provides libgcc_s.so.1(GCC_3.5) needed by qt-static-devel, nothing provides libstdc++.so.6(CXXABI_ARM_1.3.3) needed by qt-static-devel21:28
jedixbut qt-static-devel is the package I rebuilt and it worked21:28
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jedixscrew it, I'll change the linklocal to all21:30
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