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| CosmoHill | w00t: http://bash.org/?80872 | 01:40 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:28 |
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| Ganymede | Hello. I had some general questions about MeeGo now that I'm considering buying my first MeeGo netbook. Is it a full-blown Linux where I can access the command line and compile and install my own applications, maybe run Openbox, upgrade all packages through a package manager, etc., and perhaps later install my own Linux distro? Or is it very locked down and imposes restrictions on what programs/apps can | 03:36 |
| Ganymede | be run on it? | 03:36 |
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| Ganymede | And my second question is whether it supports EAP-PEAP-MSCHAPv2 and EAP-TTLS since I'm deploying RADIUS at work and would be nice to test with my own device rather than hunting for a Windows laptop. | 03:44 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Ganymede, the answer to your questions is, "Yes." I have not run Openbox on MeeGo, but have done the other things. | 03:44 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | The package manager is OpenSUSE's zypper, which is quite nice, and the packages are rpms. | 03:44 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | gcc, gdb, binutils all work as you would expect. | 03:45 |
| Ganymede | Thanks for the clarification. | 03:45 |
| Alison_Chaiken | There are virtually no restrictions as to what can be run on MeeGo, except, ahem, portability. | 03:45 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | I have no clue what the EAP/RADIUS stuff you refer to is, but someone else here may know. | 03:46 |
| Alison_Chaiken | The best supported netbook is Lenovo S10-3t. I picked up a used one in new condition this week for $400 U.S. | 03:46 |
| Alison_Chaiken | There's tons of info about MeeGo netbook at wiki.meego.com. | 03:47 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | This IRC is more active in European work hours, as there's more activity over the Pond than here in the U.S. | 03:48 |
| ali1234 | it's not strictly true that gcc works as you would expect | 03:48 |
| Ganymede | I'm looking at an ASUS Eee PC running MeeGo for under $200. As of now, it looks like MeeGo will suit my needs. The alternative was Windows. | 03:48 |
| ali1234 | unless you expect it to be hardcoded to generate ssse3 code | 03:49 |
| ali1234 | meego is not really a full blown linux distro | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | if you don't want to run any of the meego ux stuff you'd be better off with something else | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | you can't really upgrade it either | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | dist-upgrade is right out | 03:50 |
| Ganymede | I wonder if I'll void my warranty if I image the hard drive and then go ahead and install Arch Linux on it. | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | not on an asus, no | 03:51 |
| Ganymede | If I ever need to send it in for warranty, I'll just put the MeeGo image back onto it. | 03:51 |
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| Ganymede | I bet Arch would burn through the battery much faster than MeeGo thought. | 03:55 |
| Ganymede | though* | 03:55 |
| ali1234 | yes probably | 03:55 |
| ali1234 | that's what happens when you try to run desktop software on a mobile device though | 03:55 |
| ali1234 | meego will run out of power just as fast if you install a totally different desktop environment that doesn't understand powersaving | 03:56 |
| Ganymede | Meaning...MeeGo doesn't do any sort of powersaving? | 03:56 |
| ali1234 | no, when did i say that? | 03:57 |
| Ganymede | You said MeeGo will run out of power just as fast as a non-power-saving desktop environment...I must have misunderstood. | 03:58 |
| Ganymede | Wait...I misread. | 03:58 |
| ali1234 | no, i said meego will run out of power just as fast as arch if you install openbox on it | 03:58 |
| Ganymede | Oh, okay. So it's pretty much just a plain Linux kernel? I initially thought maybe it has a lot of extra additions/optimizations for saving power on the hardware it targets. | 03:59 |
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| wmarone | that's the role of a hardware adaptation | 03:59 |
| wmarone | and lies outside the scope of MeeGo | 03:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | It depends on the vendor - if they have lots of powersaving, they can add it to the kernel | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | They'd have to provide you with sources for that kernel, and you may be able to use the powersaving features with other distributions. | 04:00 |
| ali1234 | most of the power optimizations in meego are in the platform - the stuff you want to replace | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | yup | 04:01 |
| Ganymede | I see... | 04:01 |
| Ganymede | Well I haven't tried it yet so it's not like I'm bent on replacing it. I was just trying to get a feel for how versatile the distro is since I don't want to be stuck with a very locked-down distro that doesn't let me fiddle with the system to my heart's content and run exotic applications on it. | 04:02 |
| ali1234 | then you won't like meego much | 04:03 |
| wmarone | ali1234: oh? how so? | 04:03 |
| ali1234 | well for starters compiling things is a huge pain in the ass | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | The basic idea of meego is that it is a common layer which runs on many different devices. | 04:04 |
| ali1234 | and you won't find bleeding edge versions of packages in meego | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | From TVs to ... | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It is _not_ designed for 'power users' in any sense. | 04:04 |
| ali1234 | and upgrading it in virtually impossible at this stage, and probably won't get fixed for another 6 months | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The 'pretty' layer is largely added by the OEM at this point, and for the near future. | 04:04 |
| ali1234 | meego is about as far from a rolling distro as you can get | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | And they are generally unlikely to add any beyond what users absolutely require | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: slackware? | 04:05 |
| ali1234 | i'm pretty sure slackware allows upgrades | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | you can uninstall a package, and install anothe version | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no 'upgrade' | 04:07 |
| ali1234 | the difference between slackware and meego being that on slackware that is actually supported and expected to happen | 04:07 |
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| ali1234 | where as on meego you get fixes for major bugs and if you want new features you have to wipe and reinstall, or compile them yourself | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Meego - the base images - are works in progress released by a comparatively tiny team, and expected to have bugs often | 04:09 |
| ali1234 | the stable releases are not works in progress | 04:10 |
| ali1234 | they feel more like abandonware to me | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, there is that. | 04:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Thre are structural issues - 'fixes go to upstream' - works when upstream cares about your fixes, ad agrees they're useful int he general case. | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And applies them in a timely manner. | 04:11 |
| ali1234 | and what about when the fixes don't apply to the upstream project because the bug only exists in meego? | 04:12 |
| ali1234 | eg because it is in one of the UXs | 04:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | as an end user, today, your only realistic option for installing meego is the netbook ux | 04:14 |
| ali1234 | it seems to take about 3 years to get a distro into a usable state | 04:17 |
| ali1234 | unfortunately maemo and meego have a history of starting over from scratch every 12-18 months | 04:17 |
| ali1234 | and the cycle seems to be getting even shorter with meego | 04:18 |
| ali1234 | it seems to have more deprecated APIs than it has releases | 04:18 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | ali1234, I've been using MeeGo-IVI and it's quite workable. Tablet UX is usable too, although I think netbook is nicer. | 04:41 |
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| lorenl | hello | 06:05 |
| lorenl | I'm curious, how much Maemo code is really in MeeGo. | 06:05 |
| lorenl | From what I've read, it's almost entirely based on Moblin as Nokia's code was closed source. | 06:05 |
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| Sage | lorenl: many of the standard linux packages were in both maemo and moblin. Not sure if anyone has any percentage of the ratios. | 06:39 |
| Sage | I think main thing that was really came from Moblin is the current Netbook UX (of course some lower layer packages). | 06:40 |
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| Sage | MeeGo Touch Framework, the base of the currently obsoleted Handset UX, which is used in the Community Edition was one of Nokia's contributions. The same framework is used in the Harmattan (N9/N950). | 06:43 |
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| lorenl | Sage: from what I read about m | 07:07 |
| lorenl | Sage: from what I read about Maemo is that it was some standard Linux packages with propietary closed-source packages by Nokia thrown in | 07:08 |
| lorenl | I'm curious how many of these packages made it into MeeGo since MeeGo/Moblin seem to be almost entirely open source unlike Maemo. | 07:08 |
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| dm8tbr | lorenl: basically only those that are very close to hardware and only where not possible to replace with open-source | 07:16 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:53 |
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| AndrewX192 | How does one adjust the screen brightness from Meego on the N900? | 08:40 |
| slonopotamus | by echoing to something in /sys :P | 08:51 |
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| iekku | core bug triage starting | 10:01 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone got anything from the forum<->email bridge since 17th September? | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: You need to be in some group, I think. | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: It was working up until then | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: So if it's changed, without being communicated, I'll be Very Pissed Off[TM] | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yes, but then it was spamming. You need to set the preference now, I think. | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: See bug #23376 | 13:30 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23376 nor, Undecided, ---, rsuplido, RESO FIXED, Email notifications stopped working on 17/09/11 01:19 | 13:30 |
| elcaset__ | I'm going to the Intel AppUp Elements in Seattle. Anybody else going? | 13:31 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Thanks, reopened. | 13:32 |
| Jaffa | lbt_away: If you did "ask on the forum" on bug 23376, could you add a link? Thanks in advance. | 13:33 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23376 nor, Undecided, ---, rsuplido, REOP, Email notifications stopped working on 17/09/11 01:19 | 13:33 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: "it" was spamming? | 13:37 |
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| Jaffa | Morning lbt_hel | 13:38 |
| Jaffa | lbt_hel: If you did "ask on the forum" on bug 23376, could you add a link? Thanks in advance. | 13:38 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23376 nor, Undecided, ---, rsuplido, REOP, Email notifications stopped working on 17/09/11 01:19 | 13:38 |
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| berndhs | morning | 15:16 |
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| * CosmoHill does the "I got given free hardware and I appreciate it" dance | 15:30 | |
| berndhs | yay free hardware | 15:31 |
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| berndhs | right up there with free beer | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | I was given an ATi FireGL V7600 | 15:32 |
| berndhs | i need one of those too, urgently | 15:33 |
| berndhs | what is it ? | 15:33 |
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| CosmoHill | I duno | 15:33 |
| CosmoHill | but I can tell you how much it cost me | 15:33 |
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| berndhs | i want one of those meego phones intel is working on :) | 15:34 |
| CosmoHill | I got told that I was cheap when I told them I'd spent £20 on phone credit in the last 4 months | 15:35 |
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| berndhs | that's not a lot | 15:36 |
| CosmoHill | only added £10 last week | 15:36 |
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| berndhs | better to communicate in IRC anyway, who needs phone calls | 15:37 |
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| poutsi | wonder if I've ever had a work-related call that wasn't actually a waste of time | 15:38 |
| CosmoHill | poutsi: what's your job | 15:38 |
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| poutsi | my cards say "senior specialist"... mobile software for whatever platform is what I currently mainly do | 15:41 |
| berndhs | oh so you're old :) | 15:42 |
| poutsi | I guess I need to qualify that statement a bit, sounds quite harsh now that I re-read it :) what I meant was, probably 99% of those calls could've been handled in less time in some other medium | 15:43 |
| CosmoHill | like an FAQ? | 15:43 |
| poutsi | granted, 99% of those calls are conf calls and we know about conf calls, don't we | 15:43 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 15:44 |
| CosmoHill | I'm still inocent | 15:44 |
| poutsi | in my experience they always have too many people in them, nobody really swings a whip to move 'em forward, nobody preps beforehand and then they take two hours when they could've taken 20 minutes | 15:44 |
| berndhs | a conf call is like a meeting, only not as efficient | 15:44 |
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| poutsi | hah, exactly | 15:45 |
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| * CosmoHill spent this morning helping to teach parrallel computing | 15:58 | |
| CosmoHill | the course isn't being updated cos it's the last year it will run | 15:59 |
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| berndhs | no future in parallel programming eh ? | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | not at that uni | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | they've shifting towards multimedia, the web and cloud crap | 16:01 |
| CosmoHill | I like programming and HPC | 16:01 |
| berndhs | ah, going the crass commercialization route | 16:01 |
| CosmoHill | probably lucky I started when I did | 16:01 |
| CosmoHill | the thing that annoys me about uni is they'll spend lots of money on something that they'll use for a few years | 16:02 |
| CosmoHill | like the HPC they use, still perfectly good however for what they actually need, a load of ITX Atom computers networked together would work just as well | 16:02 |
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| berndhs | there's always this tradeoff with smaller universities, science versus (ordinary) employment prospects prospects for the graduating students | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | I wouldn't have said we're a small uni | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglia Ruskin | 16:04 |
| berndhs | well, I mean smaller in reputation, not in number of students | 16:04 |
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| berndhs | if you're MIT your students have an employment advantage just because of that | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | ah okay | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | that's where wording comes into it | 16:06 |
| CosmoHill | "I went to a university at cambridge" | 16:06 |
| CosmoHill | most people don't know that there is two in cambridge | 16:06 |
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| berndhs | more, depending on how you count Cambridges | 16:07 |
| berndhs | MIT and Harvard are in Cambridge | 16:07 |
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| berndhs | google maps, bing maps, openstreetmap all don't find my address | 16:14 |
| berndhs | I am safe :) | 16:14 |
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| iekku | berndhs, :D | 16:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | berndhs: Where are you? | 16:21 |
| * SpeedEvil has JOSM loaded right now. | 16:21 | |
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| berndhs | Ridgeville, Ontario, Canada | 16:21 |
| berndhs | google maps gets everything wrong in this area | 16:22 |
| berndhs | OVI maps has never heard of it | 16:22 |
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| berndhs | same with the rest of them, yahoo, bing | 16:22 |
| berndhs | some find a location, but its wrong by a few kilometers | 16:23 |
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| berndhs | SpeedEvil: is there an OSM data collection app that could be ported to harmattan ? | 16:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is a fremantle one. | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | OSM2go | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, I don't see why it couldn't be ported. | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | There is also a java editor, and a flash editor | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | The flash editor in principle would be possible to get working with an open source flash solution, but will never work well without major UI changes for the touchscreen | 16:31 |
| berndhs | the n950 GPS is within 15 meters or so in this area, that's probably good enough | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Sometimes the sources you're using to check against can be off. | 16:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy | 16:31 |
| berndhs | google maps agrees with the n950 going by lat/lon | 16:31 |
| SpeedEvil | You can use simple GPS logging plus geotagging of photos. | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Has the geotagging of photos in harmattan been fixed, or does it still round off lat/lon to the nearest second? | 16:32 |
| berndhs | its just that whatever data sources are used are off in this area | 16:32 |
| berndhs | i haven't tried tagging photos | 16:32 |
| berndhs | the streets are in the right places I think, just the house numbers are wrong | 16:35 |
| berndhs | and the search gets confused with East Foobar Road versus West Foobar Road | 16:35 |
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| waa | When trying to install mad-developer I'm getting the following error: | 17:02 |
| waa | Error building the cache: | 17:02 |
| waa | [|] Repository type can't be determined. | 17:02 |
| waa | Warning: Disabling repository '1.2-non-oss' because of the above error. | 17:02 |
| waa | ... | 17:02 |
| waa | Anyone know what can be? | 17:03 |
| waa | I'm running on meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1 | 17:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | waa: non-oss suggests it's a repo containing binaries only, not nuch use in it for a SDK I'd say | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/nuch/much/. | 17:31 |
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| waa | Loading repository data... | 17:34 |
| waa | Reading installed packages... | 17:34 |
| waa | 'mad-developer' not found in package names. Trying capabilities. | 17:34 |
| waa | No provider of 'mad-developer' found. | 17:34 |
| waa | Resolving package dependencies... | 17:34 |
| waa | Nothing to do. | 17:34 |
| waa | DocScrutinizer, ^ | 17:34 |
| waa | DocScrutinizer, why mad-developer is not found? Should I add a specific repo? | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no idea about madde here | 17:35 |
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| Nimesh_Accenture | can anyone here help me on ohmd ? | 17:36 |
| Nimesh_Accenture | has anyone worked on policy framework | 17:37 |
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| Sazpaimon | http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orignal-Housing-Cover-Case-NOKIA-N9-N9-00-black-/120777537045?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1ee6f615 | 18:13 |
| Sazpaimon | well that certainly didnt take long | 18:13 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 18:41 |
| penguinbait | :( | 18:41 |
| berndhs | hola | 18:41 |
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| Andy80 | I've updated the icon of my project, but the debian/control was not updated by QtCreator... how can I force it to update that file reflecting the new icon? | 18:42 |
| berndhs | the thing to do is /join #harmattan | 18:43 |
| Andy80 | ok | 18:44 |
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| CosmoHill | penguinbait: there was a dude called "gaypenguin" in a channel I used to hang out on | 18:45 |
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| mikeleib | Stskeeps: can I hand you BMC#23345 ? | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | mikeleib: yes, if it is wrongly assigned to you | 19:25 |
| npm | Does anybody think that the MeeGo platform missing common and expected codecs (which might be provide by 3rd party platform provider) is a good reason for Intel AppUp to reject my app/port http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.i586.rpm | 19:27 |
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| npm | how many of meego users are getting a "black screen" on video playback because your platform doesn't have basic codecs needed to play internet video? | 19:28 |
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| thiago | npm: your app requires codecs and the AppUp compliancy doesn't guarantee you them? | 19:28 |
| thiago | meaning they reject your app because they can't guarantee that on all systems it will do something useful? | 19:29 |
| npm | yes. | 19:30 |
| npm | i was wondering what happened to my contest entry http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/node/4445 | 19:30 |
| npm | after submitting before contest deadline, i got rejection for that, and one other trivial issue, naming it /opt/qmltube rather than /opt/com.nielsmayer.qmltube/ even though it's a port and extension of someone else's work | 19:31 |
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| npm | basically after facing massive uphill battle to publish anything at all to appup (had to use windows under qemu in linux to upload) i gave up... | 19:33 |
| npm | working on stuff for N9 instead. one killer app coming up soon. http://nielsmayer.com/voicetogoog/ | 19:33 |
| npm | speaking of that... | 19:34 |
| npm | i'm adding a maps feature (works awesome, i can leave little voice notes all over my map) | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | it's not a good reason for rejection | 19:35 |
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| ali1234 | however it is a major problem of meego | 19:35 |
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| npm | but when i add a MouseArea to my QML Map, it eats all the MapMouseArea events on my audio-transcription-droppings on the map | 19:36 |
| npm | any suggestions on being able to have both MouseArea and MapMouseArea's (on individual MapImage's and MapText's) | 19:37 |
| ali1234 | why com.nielsmayer | 19:37 |
| ali1234 | why com? | 19:37 |
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| npm | because they have guidelines for where the app is installed | 19:39 |
| npm | and i'm registered as nielsmayer.com | 19:39 |
| npm | as the "publisher" | 19:39 |
| npm | since that's me | 19:39 |
| ali1234 | so i have to have an internet domain name in order to publish on appup? | 19:39 |
| npm | no, i'm sure you could call yourself "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Software" | 19:39 |
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| ali1234 | then why the arbitrary reversal on the domain name? | 19:40 |
| berndhs | can't you use net.sourceforge.bestappsinceslicedbread ? | 19:40 |
| npm | yeah that would work | 19:40 |
| ali1234 | presumably only if you work for sourcefirge | 19:40 |
| npm | except i have my project on google code | 19:41 |
| ali1234 | what about qmltube.qmltube.qmltube | 19:41 |
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| npm | and it's actually a subproject of a larger stalld'er project: http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/ | 19:42 |
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| npm | which i now seem to be implementing many of the compoents inadvertently in http://nielsmayer.com/voicetogoog/ anyways | 19:43 |
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| ali1234 | i just don't understand appup | 19:43 |
| ali1234 | seems so many crazy and arbitrary rules, many of which are contradictory | 19:44 |
| ali1234 | if any of these wannabee app stores want to actually compete with apple then the way for them to do that is quite simple | 19:44 |
| npm | i dunno, i'll find out this week how nokia compares as I'm about to submit my first nokia app | 19:44 |
| ali1234 | make publishing apps *easier* than just throwing it on a website, now *harder* | 19:45 |
| ali1234 | oh nokia is not better, trust me | 19:45 |
| ali1234 | but you'll find out | 19:45 |
| npm | pretty smooth sailing on the N950 for now... in comparison. it's unfortunate that the alliance didn't continue. | 19:45 |
| ali1234 | with nokia you'll just run into loads of tiny problems | 19:46 |
| ali1234 | like the submission tool will replace your nice icons with goatse for no reason | 19:46 |
| ali1234 | weird and random paper cut bugs | 19:46 |
| npm | i dunno, at least they get fixed, and they're upstream on qt. the biggest problems i have as app developer is that by the time Qt gets to MeeGo, it's obsolete andfull of bugs | 19:46 |
| npm | e.g. released and properly working Qt Mobility 1.2 instead of bug-laden "beta0" | 19:47 |
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| npm | Qt 4.7.4 and Qt Quick 1.1 | 19:47 |
| npm | instead of 4.7.2 and QtQuick 1.0 | 19:47 |
| npm | etc | 19:47 |
| npm | I run into a boat load of problems and then they get obfuscated by the fact that i'm running on some arbitrarily frozen "beta0" QtMobility + cherry picked random patches from upstream, versus the latest and greatest bits | 19:48 |
| npm | I hope that with thiago now at Intel, these things get fixed :-) | 19:49 |
| mikeleib | Stskeeps: sent it to you-- it's got the N950 keyword, and I don't have one | 19:53 |
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| Stskeeps | mikeleib: yep | 19:54 |
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| acidspunk | hello everyone | 20:12 |
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| acidspunk | is this the place to discuss meego ce on the n900 or am I in the wrong place? | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | #meego-arm | 20:13 |
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| the-boss | Stskeeps: Error: "meego-arm" is not a valid command. | 20:14 |
| acidspunk | thanks stskeeps. btw, thanks for the effort. :) | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | np | 20:14 |
| ali1234 | npm: with nokia, problems with the SDK are the least of your worries | 20:15 |
| ali1234 | actually that goes for pretty much all these app stores | 20:15 |
| ali1234 | while you're still developing it you can work around | 20:16 |
| ali1234 | the problems start when you try to publish, because it's out of your control, and in the hands of someone on the other side of the planet who probably doesn't even speak the same language as you | 20:16 |
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| npm | same problem w/ appup. for example, if i want to work around meego's qtmobitity bugs by shipping my own? or ship a qt 4.7.4 statically linked so i can use qtquick 1.1 | 20:23 |
| npm | but then i'm probably violating some qt thing if my app is "for sale" | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | the problems with ovi publishing are much weirder, like as i said, it eats your app icons for no reason | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | and you can complain about it and eventually it will get fixed | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | in that one version of your app, manually | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | and the next time you submit a new version the problem will come back and you have to strt complaining again | 20:25 |
| npm | probably a bug in the .desktop file | 20:25 |
| npm | :-) | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | and the bugs are always trivial | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | and they are never fixed properly | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | and there's just loads of them | 20:25 |
| npm | yes. be sure to add a ';' at the end of multiple entry lines e.g. mimetypes | 20:25 |
| npm | :-) | 20:25 |
| npm | that'll eat your icons | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | symbian does not use desktop files | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | i'm talking about the ovi store icons | 20:26 |
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| npm | oh i talking meego | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | there's literally just a form where you upload them | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't | 20:26 |
| npm | don't know about symbian, tho if nokia sends me a nice phone, i'll learn about it :-) | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | but it takes until after the app is approved or rejected before you can tell if it works | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | so you have to sit and wait 3 days for it to show up in the store before you can tell that, oops, they messed up the icons | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | and then you have to unlist it (which takes another day) | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | and then submit it all over again | 20:27 |
| npm | well i'll know who to ask for advice when i try this week | 20:27 |
| npm | :-) | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | and while you are waiting for it to delist your customers are seeing some horrible ugly icons | 20:27 |
| npm | but i'm submitting for harmattan | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | and the thing is all these bugs are trivial | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | easily fixed | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | and minor impact | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | any one in isolation would be a minor problem | 20:28 |
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| npm | sounds like meego | 20:28 |
| ali1234 | but whenever i try to do anything with nokia dev tools i always hit at least 5 of them | 20:28 |
| ali1234 | and they just are not fixed | 20:28 |
| npm | i dunno i got an update to to qtcreator and qtsdk that fixed a lot of stuff | 20:28 |
| ali1234 | but they seem to invest a lot of money in customer support because complaining *will* get it fixed, but only for you and not for anyone else | 20:28 |
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| ali1234 | hiring 1 developer to actually fix the problems properly would probably cut their customer service costs by 10x what that developer costs | 20:29 |
| npm | plus there's an answer usually a google search away | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | and 1 developer *would* be enough, if they were actually competent, because as i said, the bugs are *always* trivial | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | no, there is no answer on google | 20:30 |
| npm | but all you speak of is par for the course on any platform. i find it better w/ qt than other envs | 20:30 |
| ali1234 | qt has nothing to do with ovi store | 20:30 |
| ali1234 | when you put an app in ovi store it has to have an icon | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | for that you have to upload a png file | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | there is zero flexibility in this | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | you have a web form where you upload a png file | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | once you;ve uploaded it, it is out of your cntrol | 20:31 |
| npm | oh right. yeah so i made some icons. in inkscape | 20:31 |
| npm | if only all my problems were so hard | 20:31 |
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| ali1234 | great, you made an icon | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | you upload it | 20:32 |
| npm | and? | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | then 3 days later your app appears in the store, and the icon looks NOTHING LIKE what you uploaded | 20:32 |
| npm | oh i see. | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | and this is just example | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | there is plenty of other weird stuff | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | like when you pick a category for your app | 20:32 |
| npm | ok, well i'll find out. my icons are crappy anyways so maybe it'll make them look better. i'm no graphic designer | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | then 6 months down the line they rename the category you picked from "news" to "news and weather" and your app just disappears from the store | 20:33 |
| njozwiak | I'm having some issues with the meego repository. I installed the latest Tablet build and the default download URIs don't exist, so I went to download.meego.com/snapshots/ and retrieved the latest URIs | 20:33 |
| npm | true the categories were very weird. it's like someone went to a rave with 7 foot tall flower people and then decided to think up categories for the store | 20:34 |
| njozwiak | http://download.meego.com/snapshots/latest-1.2/repos/ etc and modified my zypper config files on my tablet | 20:34 |
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| ali1234 | so then you log in and you see a big alert that says "hey you need to reselect categories for your app" | 20:34 |
| njozwiak | now when I try: zypper install openssh-server it finds the package | 20:34 |
| ali1234 | but they didn't bother to email or anything :( | 20:34 |
| ali1234 | all this stuff is outside of what you can control with the sdk | 20:35 |
| njozwiak | http://download.meego.com/snapshots/latest-1.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/openssh-5.6p1-3.16.i586.rpm | 20:35 |
| npm | true. | 20:35 |
| njozwiak | prints the filesize, confirms I want to download and install, and then attempts to | 20:35 |
| njozwiak | and then the following occurs: | 20:35 |
| njozwiak | Error code: Connection failed | 20:35 |
| npm | ali1234: but i was just happy i didn't have to use windows under qemu to upload a .deb (unlike intel appup) | 20:36 |
| njozwiak | Error message: Couldn't resolve host 'download.meego.com' | 20:36 |
| njozwiak | any ideas? | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | yes, well, appup is clearly some kind of bizarre joke, i mean it doesn't even make sense | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | literally nothing about it makes sense | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | stuffing meego apps into it is clearly an after thought | 20:36 |
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| ali1234 | everything about it seems geared to windows apps | 20:37 |
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| CosmoHill | btw, have any of you heard about .cc being used over .ccp for linux programs? | 20:38 |
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| ali1234 | sure | 20:40 |
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| njozwiak | I figured it out, the default repo configs have a trailing "/" at the end of the packages path. that seemed to cause the issue | 20:43 |
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| javispedro | CosmoHill: Actually I've seen .cc more used than .cpp -- until I got thrown into Qt =) | 20:48 |
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| CosmoHill | to me they mean the same thing | 20:48 |
| javispedro | they do, it's just a curiosity. | 20:48 |
| CosmoHill | so the lecturer was talking bollocks | 20:49 |
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| npm | so it would appear that running flash in a QtWebKit browser might be the only reliable way to get "internet media" to playback on the meego platform? | 20:49 |
| npm | and the entire qtmobility->gstreamer stack ends up being useless because of codec issues? | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | probably, yes | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | pretty much | 20:49 |
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| thiago | sounds stupid | 20:50 |
| npm | in which case you might as well just deliver web apps ( like http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit_0_1_0.i586.rpm ) and be done w/ it | 20:50 |
| thiago | why do we have frameworks abstracting the codec issues if we need to ship the codecs with the app? | 20:51 |
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| npm | it's totally stupid | 20:51 |
| thiago | and of course, shipping codecs would also be unacceptable due to patent issues | 20:51 |
| npm | but that seems to be what we have to do | 20:51 |
| npm | well that's the thing. the one proprietary piece that is shipped with meego that allows this to be sidestepped is flash | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | ogg? | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:52 |
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| RST38h | EHLO all | 20:53 |
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| npm | but youtube doesn't use ogg, most podcasts are mp3 etc | 20:53 |
| npm | meego-app-browser-ffmpeg-oss is the way meego's browser "cheats" | 20:53 |
| npm | but even so it can't do many media types wheras flash can | 20:54 |
| thiago | RST38h: 220 Hello | 20:54 |
| mikeleib | winnar | 20:54 |
| thiago | mikeleib: hey mike | 20:55 |
| mikeleib | hi, thiago | 20:55 |
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| ali1234 | thiago: frameworks don't solve any of the real issues with codecs, which all boil down to "codecs that people actually want to use are not freely distributable" | 20:57 |
| thiago | which is why they have to come with the device | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | which means they won't be part of meego | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | which means if your app needs them, it won;t be meego compliant | 20:58 |
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| ali1234 | which means it will never appear in any appstore | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | good for ogg? :> | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | not really | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | because ogg won't help you make a youtube app | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | or a podcast app | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | true | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | or anything else that people actually want | 20:59 |
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| npm | meanwhile, on the n9, n950, no such problems. needed codecs are there | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | all it really means is that "meego compliant" is just a hoop you have to jump through, and doesn't really guarantee interoperability at all | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | since your meego camcorder and your meego tv might use different codecs | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | compliance is a joke until 1.2 compliance document is actually approved. | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | the only thing meego compliance will guarantee in this case is that neither of them will have a youtube app | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | simple as that | 21:00 |
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| npm | so how about if this problem gets solved by having a proper device that meego is shipped with | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | which means the android tv looks a lot more appealing than the meego one | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | sad, but true | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | because it just trades around sources? | 21:01 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: 1.2? 1.3 ;) | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | npm: that would only solve the problem if there was only one meego device | 21:01 |
| npm | better than 0 | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | npm: as soon as you have two and they have different codecs you are back to square one | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | while there's no meego devices it isn't a problem at all | 21:01 |
| npm | thats a problem that is best worried about after there's three | 21:01 |
| npm | :-) | 21:02 |
| * CosmoHill got a new graphics card and his quiet pc is no longer quiet, or with a side panel | 21:03 | |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders where's qgil hanging out when he's joining IRC | 21:03 | |
| npm | that's why i go for pc's w/ integrated graphics cards | 21:03 |
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| hiemanshu | npm: try gaming on those :P | 21:03 |
| npm | works fine for my son. | 21:04 |
| hiemanshu | not for me | 21:04 |
| npm | anything more and he'd be gaming too much | 21:04 |
| npm | :-) | 21:04 |
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| npm | http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/chipsets/7-series-integrated/Pages/amd-790gx-chipset.aspx is actually pretty amazing | 21:06 |
| npm | and i'm sure the modern updates to it will be pretty competitive | 21:07 |
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| CosmoHill | bollocks, I was making tea an hour ago | 21:12 |
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| berndhs | CosmoHill: too strong now and cold ? | 21:31 |
| CosmoHill | I put pulled the teabag out with my hand and poured it down the sink | 21:31 |
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| penguinbait | thanks for the info CosmoHill? | 21:42 |
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