IRC log of #meego for Sunday, 2011-06-12

w00tflasher can either reflash your kernel, or be used to load a given kernel00:00
w00t(without actually flashing it)00:00
DocScrutinizerw00t: NB I'm also "evaluating the process" even when it's generic advice given in IRC00:00
DocScrutinizerw00t: I'm aware of the different options of flasher, yes00:01
DocScrutinizerw00t: would like a better explanation of what *meego* install does to my system00:01
maligorwhat does it use if it isn't das uboot?00:01
w00tit doesn't, because it's not installed00:01
w00tit's put on an SD card00:01
w00tmaligor: without uboot, you need flasher to load the right kernel, afaik00:02
maligorwas just wondering what bootloader it uses without00:02
w00tnolo00:03
DocScrutinizerso is meego still supposed to get "chainloaded" from maemo, by loading new kernel to RAM? Or is the setup so you can boot from uSD via uBoot?00:03
DocScrutinizereven both?00:03
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maligornokia propietary huh00:03
w00tDocScrutinizer: I don't know about the former, the latter works, and is what I use00:03
DocScrutinizerok00:04
DocScrutinizerI'll give it a try eventually. HAve to find a free uSD00:04
maligorthe n900's I've used were setup to try to boot the kernel from sd first (they all had uboot)00:07
maligornever used a out of the box n90000:07
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DocScrutinizerthat's not a good basement for a comprehensive comparison to get an idea what's user experience for those who usually do exactly that00:11
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DocScrutinizer(seen the "I works like a charm on my quad core devel station" syndrome way too often in my life...)00:13
maligoroh, my background is in messing with embedded hardware00:13
maligorincluding writing bootloaders00:13
maligorit's just that the n900 in my case was never the target hardware itself, but just a convenient test subject ;P00:14
DocScrutinizerprobably little use to compare your new bootloader to the OOTB user experience ;-D00:14
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maligoryes, I never got any replies to it, people don't seem to have jtags00:15
DocScrutinizerrarely ever, yeah :-P00:15
maligorI mostly did it to install debian on it that didn't require kexec or rubbish like that00:16
maligorso it's not like I really care if anyone else ever did use it00:16
DocScrutinizerwhich is known to fail anyway00:16
DocScrutinizer(kexec)00:16
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DocScrutinizerwell, we could get a script called kexec that calls falsher-3.5 ;-D00:17
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maligorwell, in this case it did work, it's just so inelegant00:19
DocScrutinizeroh, working kexec on N900? which kernel? which system?00:23
maligora completely different arm00:23
maligorand it wasn't kexec, but a hack00:24
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Sundance_KidAnyone here know if I can test meego on a Thinkpad T61?01:51
sofaryou should be able to, yes01:51
sofareven without installing using a liveboot image (netbook)01:52
Sundance_KidWuu! I am DL the image now. Just wanted to be sure01:52
Sundance_KidBy the screens it looks like an os I might want to keep01:52
sofarafaik t61's have intel GFX so you're good there01:52
sofarwireless should be ok too01:52
Sundance_KidNice01:52
Sundance_KidThanks for the info sofar01:53
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Sundance_KidI seem to have some trouble running the live cd on my thinkpad t61. It gives me an error saying "Not mounted or bad option"03:25
Sundance_KidAnyone know a way around this?03:25
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gabrbeddSundance_Kid: What's the CPU and graphics card on your T61?  And which live image are you trying?03:32
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Sundance_Kid2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo , Intel GMA X310003:34
Sundance_KidMeego with chrome03:34
Sundance_Kid1.203:34
gabrbeddSundance_Kid: Is this a pop-up window after you boot?  Or is this in a console?03:38
Sundance_Kidconsole, as soon as I  restart to boot in to the usb, I get the menu that allow me to boot meego, install, or boot from hd. When I click Meego it goes black and some text pop up saying not mounted or bad option.03:40
gabrbeddhmmm03:41
Sundance_KidIndeed, I made the usb on ubuntu 10.10 using image writer03:44
gabrbedd??03:44
gabrbeddI thought you said you did a live cd?03:44
Sundance_KidIm sorry. I meant to say live usb. my bad03:44
gabrbeddDid you use the same image writer that you use to create Ubuntu disks?03:44
Sundance_KidNo I got it after reading on the installation guide on the meego page03:46
gabrbeddok.  that's good.03:46
Sundance_KidNormally I use Unetbootin03:46
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gabrbeddIf you had used Ubuntu's thing that would have been the problem.  Dunno if Unetbootin knows how to do Meego properly.03:47
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gabrbeddIt could be a "bad burn"... errors on the drive.03:47
gabrbeddSome usb drives are worse about it than others.03:47
Sundance_KidIs there a specific format the drive should be in? Fat or NTSF03:48
gabrbeddMaybe also try a different USB port on your computer.  I have no real reason to suggest this -- but you never know.03:48
gabrbeddNo... it's a low-level, byte-for-byte copy.03:48
gabrbeddIf you've ever used `dd` in Linux... that's actually how most dev do it.03:48
Sundance_KidHmmm... I will burn it again on the usb and retry.03:49
gabrbeddAfter it's done... make give it about 60-90 seconds just to be sure.03:52
gabrbeddI'm going to watch a movie with the family.03:52
gabrbeddGodspeed!!03:52
gabrbedd:-)03:52
Sundance_KidThanx03:52
Sundance_Kid=)03:53
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DocScrutinizerdd, sync, eject04:22
SpeedEvilsync;sync;sync04:25
DocScrutinizerheard that's obsolete nowadays04:26
DocScrutinizerthey fixed sync around 2005 ;-)04:27
berndhscan't be too careful04:27
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SpeedEvilctrl-sysrq-whatever gets a workout sometimes too.04:27
SpeedEvilerr - alt04:28
DocScrutinizersync sometimes takes minutes here to return ;-D04:28
berndhstry sync to the cloud, could take days04:28
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gabrbeddYeah.... but I wasn't sure if he was more of an end-user-type or not.05:16
gabrbeddI feel guilty when I say `oh yeah, just dd && sync && sleep 60 && sync`05:16
gabrbedd`duh`05:16
gabrbeddsome flash drives are flat-out liars too.05:17
gabrbeddThey say they're done... but they're not.05:18
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berndhsgood night06:14
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* Sage just tested another usb stick and with that the installation of tablet ux still stalls to the very end of copying files to hard drive11:19
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Jaffamikhas: I think Stskeeps is right, my name's on the wrong page. GeneralAntilles suggested starting a TSG agenda page a few hours before Dawn published the CO mtg agenda11:31
* Stskeeps would be interested to see the platform you're running on described :P11:36
* Jaffa has been nominated by someone else at the moment :p11:39
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Stskeepsheh11:40
Stskeepsi kind of like CO's nominations this time around, niels & texrat definately has merit in the project for their roles, which is good to see11:40
JaffaAnyway, time to go out with family and be a tourist all day.11:40
Stskeepscya11:40
JaffaAgreed11:40
* lardman puzzles through the Proximus update logic11:42
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* lardman wonders if he's made a mistake or if QtCreator just can't understand his multiple layers of nested classes12:03
lardmanprobably the former12:03
thiago_homeit has a problem a while ago12:04
thiago_homeclasses inside functions for example12:04
thiago_homeit had a problem, I mean12:05
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lardmanah ok, so I'll stop scratching my head and see what happens when I try to compile eventually12:08
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Venemolardman, Qt Creator doesn't really like any esoteric stuff like that. eg. it doesn't support lambdas either12:55
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lardmanI don't even know what a lambda is in the context of Qt/C++ :)13:04
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alteregoQML has closures And anonymous functions.13:33
alterego:)13:33
thiago_homeVenemo: I thought roberto had added lambda support for 2.213:34
thiago_homeare you using that?13:34
thiago_homelardman: [](){}()13:35
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RST38hHoly fuck, this Android stuff is an abomination =(13:35
alteregoWhat Android stuff?13:36
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arnotixehi all is it at all possible to boot  meego-netbook-ia32/   meego 1.2.0 image on a desktop PC? Here it boots but I get "Cannot mount / or bad option", then "Cannot remount with SSD option" and it seems to stop there... (Booting from usb=13:36
RST38halterego: I am trying to figure out how ot use Android SDK13:36
StskeepsRST38h: so there's worse things than meego? ;)13:36
RST38halterego: It gives Scratchbox a simple and familiar feel13:36
RST38hStskeeps: Well, the Meego stuff, after you helped me installing it locally, feels like SB, more or less13:37
RST38hStskeeps: The Android SDK feels like a bunch of undergrads have hastily laid a steaming pile of fecal matter and called it an "SDK".13:38
alteregoWow, that bad.13:39
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phaeronthiago_home: ping13:48
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timakimaRST38h: really? i tried it couple of months ago and it was easy to install and worked out of the box. didn't do much more than "hello world" with it though.13:51
timakimasame thing with ndk13:51
RST38hAhahaha13:56
RST38hHere are the simplest NDK instructions I could find: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/android/ndk-tutorial/13:57
RST38hRead and weep.13:57
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thiago_homephaeron: pong14:13
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RST38hOk, native part builds now14:18
RST38hNow the dreadful Dalvik part...14:18
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RST38hEhehe, none of the tools written in Java and supplied with the SDK run. They all end up with a Java exception of one kind or another.14:22
thiago_home    char *szFormat = "The sum of the two numbers is: %i";14:22
thiago_homeeww14:22
RST38hThereis something called Jython. Python implemented in Java? =)14:23
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alteregoAnd JRuby :)14:28
thiago_homehow about a pyjava?14:30
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lcukthiago_home, as long as you run it in a QML instance14:32
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alteregopyjamas14:32
thiago_homesounds like a good name for the project14:33
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lcukalterego, are you already pondering next week?14:36
* lcuk was rather hopeful tracy would have had baby already14:36
lcukhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jun/01/hactivate14:37
alteregolcuk: I am pondering it yes :)14:39
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alteregoOnly doing handset and tablet now?14:48
alteregoNo tablet-apps?14:48
alteregoOh, whoops, wrong room :)14:49
alteregoWhat's the name of the kernel headers package in meego?14:50
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Stskeepskernel-headers or kernel-adaptation-n900-devel14:51
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alteregoWhere does it install the headers to?14:51
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lcukalterego, so have you got any life changing apps?14:52
lcukor ideas to implement14:52
alteregolcuk: I've got one, but it's huge14:52
alteregoSo I might have to cheat and do a bit over this week.14:52
alteregoWrite a few libs I can use at the event.14:53
alteregoWhat about yourself?14:53
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lcukmy life changes daily14:53
lcukand each time it does I come up with a new app to help14:53
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lcukso, yeahh I have a few thoughts14:53
lcukalterego, when we were talking qml a few weeks ago about position indicators, I realised I had not put the fix in place in liq*14:54
alteregoCool14:54
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20110611_212411.liqed.scr.png14:55
alteregoHeh14:55
alteregoCool14:55
lcuktranslucent blue scroll indicators :D14:55
lcukon x and y14:55
alteregoYeah, I've got that in dialer :)14:55
lcukwhere does dialer need that?14:56
lcukyou don't have to pan around to see?14:56
alteregoHistory, Contacts, Favourites14:56
alteregoWell, no, just on y14:56
alteregoBut the code does x & y14:56
alteregoI wrote it to be generic.14:56
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lcukI thought actual kinetics were a sorted issue?14:57
alteregoHrm?14:57
alteregoWe're talking about the indicators right?14:57
* lcuk just had a math equation missing for the indicator position14:57
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alteregoOh right14:58
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lcukyeah indicators are the visual portion to kinetics14:58
alteregoYou have to roll your own in QML14:58
lcukso we still have many different kinetics?14:58
* lcuk expected useKinetics(true);14:59
alteregoI've never heard it called kinetics14:59
alteregoThe point about QML is, no UI definitions15:00
alteregoWhy would you want it to draw them? It should be left to the UI element designer.15:00
lcukand for a long list15:00
lcukhow do you pan to the bottom of it?15:00
alteregoThat, has only been a problem since I imported my ~220 contacts from Maemo :P15:00
alteregoSo I'm working on it.15:00
lcuk:)15:00
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alteregoI'll probably do something similar to how the people app works, with A-Z buttons down the _left_ handside.15:01
lcuki just make a ui element larger than its container (which then defines the kinetic area)15:01
alteregoSeems more intuitive to be having them down the left.15:01
lcukand bind the mouse event to a standard kinetic handler15:01
lcukall lists, grids, pictures, pages etc all act and feel the same15:01
alteregoYeah, same with my code really.15:02
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RST38hOh fuck, it is PalmOS all over again =(15:02
RST38hNo static data.15:02
alteregolcuk: You just do something like: ListView { ScrollIndicator { target: parent } }15:03
lcukalterego, but how do you handle the mouse events?15:04
alteregoI don't need to.15:04
lcukthe ermmm Qt description is flickable?15:04
alteregoA ListView inherits Flickable15:04
alteregoMy "ScrollIndicator" just relies on its' parent being a "Flickable"15:04
lcukthat is good then15:05
alteregoYeah, works really nicely :)15:05
lcukapart from that you cannot use it for your contacts that easily15:06
alteregoYou mean for quick navigation?15:06
* lcuk pleased you have real data in the list now15:06
alteregoIt's just a visual indicator.15:06
lcukyeah15:06
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alteregoBut you're right, I should have done the contact import thing ages ago.15:10
alteregoThe people app takes _ages_ to startup when you've got loads of contacts btw.15:11
alteregoIt's awful, I got the "Do you want to close" dialog about 4 times.15:11
Stskeepsheh15:11
Stskeepsand who said tracker was perfoming well..15:11
alteregoIt works great in dialer.15:12
alteregoDoesn't effect startup time at all.15:12
alteregoScrolling is nice and fluid.15:12
Stskeepsinteresting15:13
alteregoBut then, dialer is prestarted ;)15:14
alteregoSo maybe it effects X startup time :D15:14
alteregoI've not noticed it though, so ..15:15
* alterego contemplates more things to download.15:16
alteregoWhilst I have access to my parents broadband ;)15:17
* Stskeeps watches qt5 build15:17
alteregoOoo, latest meego tablet release.15:17
alteregoHow's that stuff coming along Stskeeps ?15:17
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Stskeepsgood15:18
Stskeepsi had the minimal plugin (write to png files) working15:18
alteregoWhat is the correct target for exopc?15:18
alteregois it pinetrail or oaktrail?15:19
abpng is slow :(15:19
alteregoCool15:19
alteregopinetrail it is ..15:20
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Stskeepsab, yeah, but first step, got eglfs and wayland too15:20
abStskeeps, good!15:21
abhopefully there will be enough bright minds to continue imaging topics around Qt :)15:21
* alterego googles eglfs15:21
Stskeepsalterego: full screen egl basically15:22
alteregoAh, right15:22
abalterego, it is not a file system :)15:22
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alteregoThat's why I was curious :D15:22
* alterego wonders if there's a Qt5 ppa for ubuntu15:23
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alteregoStskeeps: what do I need to compile to get Qt5/SceneGraph?15:28
alteregoAh, found a cool article.15:29
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lcukab png on which device?15:42
alteregoWhat does the P stand for?15:45
ShadowJKthe P in what15:48
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lcukStskeeps, alterego - the things about tracker and slowness when filled up - this is a global problem with lab apps, until the real data is included any app works well15:50
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Venemo[12:34] <thiago_home> Venemo: I thought roberto had added lambda support for 2.2 --> this is news to me!15:57
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Venemothiago_home, that is definitely not the case16:04
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Venemothiago_home, I use 2.2.0 and it definitely underlines lambdas and says, "undefined function"16:04
thiago_homeVenemo: ok16:04
Venemothiago_home, the bug is described in http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-443916:05
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Venemothiago_home, if someone really added this feature, it would be nice of you if you could please point me to a nightly or prerelease version that has it.16:06
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SageOk, so the exopc installation stalls before the "installing bootloader" comes to screen.17:32
SageAt least this iamge workes: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.1.20110523.317:32
Sageneed to download few more images :)17:33
alteregoOh, great, I downloaded that image earlier ..17:33
alteregoIs d.m.c running slow for you today?17:33
alteregoI'm getting < 300KB/s17:34
Sageyes a bit slow17:34
alteregoMight try it through my server17:34
alteregoThat's an old image,.17:36
alteregoWhy not 0601?17:36
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alteregoOh, it doesn't exist ..17:36
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Sagehttp://pastie.org/205664517:36
SageNext image to test: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110531.84.img17:37
alteregoThat's the one I'm downloading lnow17:37
alteregoI'm getting 8MB/s on my server17:37
alteregoDo you want me to stick it up for you?17:37
alteregoIt'll be on my server in 40 seconds17:38
alteregoYou should get a better dl rate I reckon.17:38
Sagenah, I'm done in 5mins17:38
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Sagegetting 800kb/s atm.17:38
alteregom'kay17:38
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alteregoInteresting, seems my parents internet connection is crappy atm.17:41
CosmoHillalterego: ah I see, Tar 1.17 was the last to be licensed under GPL v217:43
CosmoHillwhy not use BSD tar if you want to avoid GPL v3?17:43
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alteregoCosmoHill: why don't you ask on the ML :)17:44
* CosmoHill goes to find the mailing list17:45
CosmoHillthere's quite a few17:45
ablcuk, there are no simd optimizations in libpng upstream anymore. The were no arm optimizations and intel ones were removed due to some licensing mess17:45
lcukoh deay me17:46
lcukdeary*17:46
lcukab, those optimsations really helped performance17:46
lcuklots and lots of apps need fast loading images17:46
abI know :)17:46
lcukand improvements there will improve loading time of practically every single app17:46
CosmoHillmeego-dev seems about right?17:46
abI've got jpeg loading to pretty decent levels17:46
lcukif only due to the icons!17:46
lcuknice!17:47
aband even open sourced what went into fremantle17:47
lcuklots of Contact avatars are stored as png nowadays I noticed17:47
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lcukyeah I know, I saw the jpeg stuff last year when I was on fremantle duties17:47
abLinaro even wanted to use them in their long standing work on jpeg optimizations. Unfortunately, the end result is quite dumb.17:47
ablcuk, it is on gitorious now17:48
lcukI think I saw it17:48
lcukI was pondering using libquill for some things17:48
aball Linaro got is 20% improvement over stock libjpeg-turbo17:48
abwhere we've got 2x-3x17:48
lcuk20% is massive in optimisation terms though17:48
lcuk:O even more so17:48
lcukholy heck ab, you have been busy :D17:49
ablcuk, yep, sort of. :)17:49
aba typical grid thumbnail loading now is under 1ms17:49
alteregoAvatar copying in my contacts stuff seems broken.17:49
lcukyeah I use libpng in liqbase and noticed improvements17:50
abunfortunately, not open source17:50
alteregoI think I might have to do something to the image data field ..17:50
lcukand libjpg *17:50
lcukalterego, that was the only thing I made work17:50
lcukI have had a users grid for ages, but it was static data17:50
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lcuknow on startup, it reads that "Exported contacts" folder17:50
alteregoMy handset is saying the image data is corrupt, need to look into it.17:50
lcukand fills in live data17:50
lcukextracting the images on the fly17:50
lcukthen runs base64 on them and loads from /tmp17:51
alteregoI also need to package up that app for you to use ;)17:51
lcukit needs to be integrated in the dailies17:51
alteregoIndeed17:51
alteregoI need to package it first though.17:51
lcukto mount that folder and import into meego n900-ce17:51
* CosmoHill is confused by all the different mailing lists17:51
alteregoCosmoHill: meego-dev is right17:51
lcukCosmoHill, just signup for all of them17:51
CosmoHillthanks alterego17:52
lcukincluding the #meego-food17:52
lcuk:P17:52
lcukdo I need a QApplication to make use of qtmobility?17:52
lcukie, can I use the library without needing graphical qt?17:53
lcukso I could just use the mobility interfaces but some random unknown rendering toolkit17:53
abqcoreapplication in most cases is enough17:53
* lcuk gets confused by qt build system so might have trouble17:53
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alteregoGood morning DawnFoster17:55
DawnFosterafternoon alterego17:55
CosmoHillsent17:55
CosmoHillhi DawnFoster17:55
DawnFosterhey CosmoHill17:55
maligorYou'll need to add some annoying glue into it if you use a different gui17:55
alteregolcuk: look at my app, I use mobility in a console app17:56
StskeepsDawnFoster: btw, kudos for nominating people with clear merit in CO :)17:56
DawnFosterStskeeps: thanks! I'm probably missing someone17:57
lcukalterego, interesting17:57
lcukDawnFoster, where is the list?17:57
lcukand good morning17:57
DawnFosterStskeeps: and your presentation during the conference was what prompted me to get off my butt & get the CO organized again17:57
Stskeeps:nod: happy to see it17:57
alteregolcuk: https://gitorious.org/meego-projects/qtcontacts-vcard-import17:58
alteregoI've moved the repository btw ;)17:58
DawnFosterlcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Proposed_CO_Nominations_June201117:58
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DawnFosterwe have a meeting on Tuesday to talk about them before I take them for ratification to tsg http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings17:58
DawnFosterand feel free to make suggestions for CO nominations at any time17:59
CosmoHillalterego: I think my email has been caught in the spam filter17:59
DawnFosterlcuk: Did you see that my cookbook is out now :) http://whatdawneats.com/2011/06/buy-the-cookbook-now/17:59
alteregoCosmoHill: give it time :P18:00
CosmoHillwell I did end my email with "are you looking for cheap car insurance?"18:00
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* Sage downloads yet another tablet image18:00
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alteregoSage: was that image crap?18:04
Sageno that worked18:06
Sageupdated the pastie18:06
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Sagehttp://pastie.org/205664518:06
Sageso downloading 0602 now18:07
Sageafter that 0603 and 0606 if needed.18:08
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Sagealterego: ok so it breaks between meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110531.84.img and meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110602.81.img18:22
Stskeepskernel used in each is?18:23
Stskeepscheck pkgs18:23
phaeronthiago_home: sorry was away. can I pm please ?18:24
thiago_homephaeron: yes18:24
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alteregoSo 0531 works?18:29
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Sagehttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1891218:30
MeeGoBotBug 18912 maj, Undecided, ---, chengwei.yang, NEW, Unable to install latest snapshots to exopc18:30
Sagekernel-adaptation-pinetrail.i586 2.6.38.2-8.13 vs kernel-adaptation-pinetrail.i586 2.6.38.2-8.13 so the same18:31
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Sagewhat provides package installer-launch?18:38
Sageah, installer shell18:38
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Sagealterego: ^ if you are interested of that bug18:45
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alteregoThanks18:46
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alteregoNow it's compiling qt3 support. URgh18:57
alteregoI don't even want Qt3 support.18:57
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Vitnasomeone know if nokia rm680 will have meego or harmanattan maemo 619:09
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maligoryou think they'd be at liberty to say19:10
Vitnayes this isnt an information confidentially19:11
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maligorI never followed the harmanattan stuff, but I assumed it was just the nokia version of meego19:12
Vitnathere is some information that they are at liberty to say?19:12
Vitnaharmanattan is maemo not meego19:13
Vitnaas far as i know19:13
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Vitnathere is some way for known some information about rm680(€€€)19:16
thiago_homeVitna: any information about non-released products is confidential19:18
thiago_homeso you won't be getting it here19:18
alteregoIt'll be running Harmattan, there's plenty of information on this.19:18
alteregoWhy come here and ask?19:18
Vitnabecause i am crazy19:18
Vitnathe wait is so frustrating19:18
maligorthe thing is tho, any actual devels who'd work on it couldn't talk about it atall19:19
Vitnai tought someone want earn an extra and so can call me19:20
Vitnabut i am wrong19:20
SpeedEvilAnd they can lose their job.19:20
SpeedEvilAnd possibly be sued.19:21
Vitnaokok but nokia doesnt kill them19:21
Vitnahow nokia can known who is the leaker?19:22
SpeedEvilNo, they don't.19:22
maligorwiki says harmattan is maemo base with meego ux19:22
SpeedEvilThey outsource NDA assassinations.19:22
berndhswell, it they leak it here, it's pretty much public knowledge who it was :)19:22
maligorso I guess it's not really meego as such19:22
SpeedEvilVitna: For example - you may be a nokia employee19:22
maligorthe nokia inquisition department19:23
Vitnayes i am the killer for the leaker19:23
Vitnayou have uncovered me19:23
Vitna:)19:23
SpeedEvilNobody expects the Symbian inquisition!19:23
Vitnai hope only that mrflop decide to sell this damn phone before the end of world in 201219:24
Vitnabut you are all meego devs?19:24
alteregoAh, now it's compiling the examples :)19:24
iekkuVitna, not all of us :P19:25
Vitnagood i am not19:25
maligorI'm not sure how to take that.. is it good not being a meego devel or good that there are people here who aren't meego devels just like you? ;P19:26
iekkubut like thiago_home said, if there isn't any released device, there isn't any information19:27
iekkuonly rumours19:27
iekkuand rumours usually does only harm19:27
iekkuso let's avoid them19:27
Vitnabut you(all) think that ther will be a released device(handset) before the end of world?19:28
maligorThey did release dnf before the end of the world too19:28
Vitnawhat is dnf19:29
maligorheh19:29
maligora computer game that was developed for 14 years19:29
Vitnaoh good19:29
Vitnais like pandora?19:29
maligoryou mean openpandora?19:30
Vitnayeh19:30
maligorI'm not sure how they'd compare, it was a high profile title19:30
Vitnait isnt totally community driven19:30
maligoropenpandora is a low profile project19:30
Vitna?19:30
maligorno19:30
maligordnf aka Duke Nukem Forever19:31
Vitnaduke nuken is an old game19:31
maligoryes, they made a sequel to it, took 14 years19:31
maligorI wonder how much money they spent on it19:32
maligorI do hope the nokia phone won't turn out similar19:32
Vitnai hope only that nokia phone exist19:33
Vitna:019:33
Vitna:D19:34
Vitnawhy there isnt a meego-games channel?19:34
maligorI'm sure there's prototype devices of it19:34
Vitnayes i know u have it19:34
maligorno, I don't work for nokia19:35
Vitnayes and i am not here ;)19:35
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alteregoThere is at least one Harmattan device, which will be released soon19:36
Vitnai hope before of soon19:36
maligorthe harmattan wristwatch!19:36
Vitnawristwatch?19:36
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iekkuVitna, to be exact, there's one nokia phone with meego already19:37
iekkuVitna, you can run meego on the N90019:37
Vitnayep19:37
maligorfor a limited value of run19:37
Vitnai used DE19:37
Vitnabut now on microsd i have nitdroid19:37
Vitnasomeone know if this damn rm680 will run deb or rpm?19:38
Vitnawe have to know for develop application19:39
maligorwhy?19:39
maligorpackaging takes about... a day19:39
Vitnaok i can develop in qml19:39
Vitna?19:39
Vitnaor i have to dwnload meego sdk19:40
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Vitnaactually i use qt sdk 1.1 for s3 and maemo19:40
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Vitnaalso the screen resolution19:41
Vitnais a mistery19:41
maligorif it does use the meego handset ux, then yes, it would have to have qml19:41
Vitnaif someone work in nokia can tell mrflop that he is a stupid incompetent?19:41
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iekkuVitna, that road doesn't take anyone to anywhere19:43
Vitnai think when rm680 will be in market there is not apps because mrflop don tell us anithing on device19:43
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dragunov11hey, am having build issues with meego 1.219:44
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Vitnabyebye i have broken your ball too much sorry19:46
dragunov11while compiling, i get this - Invalid configuration `i686-pc-linux-'19:46
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dragunov11any way i can fix that?19:47
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dragunov11ok, got the solution :P .19:48
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bash`hi all20:37
bash`where can I download madde-0.7.63.tar.gz?20:37
sofarunpack the src.rpm20:42
bash`sofar: hi, si the only way?20:42
bash`is*20:42
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sofarhttp://download.meego.com/live/Tools:/SDK:/Host/Trunk/src/20:43
bash`yes then20:44
bash`ok thanks20:44
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lcuka question about the ideapad21:33
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lcukI can only seem to get VGA-out working with transfer display to monitor21:33
lcukI want to keep the laptop lit21:33
lcukbut show the contents on the vga21:33
lcuka clone mode so to speak21:33
npmwhat happens when you hit fn-display multiple times?21:34
lcukflips between internal/external21:35
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lcukand of course that is not good for presenting touch app21:36
lcuksince on external, the screen resolution changes21:36
lcukbut the touchscreen sensor is then working blind21:36
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npmi think you'll have to edit /etc/X11/ and frob your server config21:37
npmxorg.conf(5)21:38
npmsetup Screen sections and Display sections as needed21:39
npmyou may have to find some impossible mode where you can drive both your onboard and offscreen monitors at same rate21:39
lcuknpm21:40
lcukxvideo can technically do that21:40
lcukand on other laptops they stretch too21:40
lcukfor mirrored mode video out21:40
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lcukbut it is the ideapad itself that wont21:40
* lcuk can happily use n900 instead :)21:40
npmit's really just a matter of copying some existing X config that works on the ideapad from somebody else that's geeked out all the display modes21:41
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lcukthen were do I find x config geeks who also hang out around meego and who have ideapads to test21:41
lcuks/were/where/21:41
infobotlcuk meant: then where do I find x config geeks who also hang out around meego and who have ideapads to test21:41
npmit's really just a matter of googling... the issues are the exact same for any distro21:43
npmthat use X21:43
npmchances are you could drop a live-image of fedora on it and see if the display does something sensible (it probably will) and then copy the config if it works.21:44
lcukalterego, ping another question: sleeping arrangements for saturday21:44
lcuknpm I gather ubuntu would be the same21:44
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npmyes, but it depends on the rev.21:45
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lcukshudder21:46
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npmspeaking of outputs, has anybody figured out how to get the digital audio out on the HDMI --> SPDIF?21:48
npmi guess i could just have ALSA talk to 'hdmi:CARD=Intel,DEV=0' but is there a mini-hdmi->spdif converter?21:50
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npmthat would give two PCI-based stereo pairs to work with, one for headphone monitors, one for mains.... ( gabrbedd ? )21:50
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npm^^ ExoPC21:51
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gabrbeddnpm: We usually just run the HDMI to a TV and use that as the 2nd audio out.  I don't know of any cables to split out just the audio from the HDMI.22:25
gabrbeddnpm: Indamixx calls it "HDMI DJ's"22:25
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lcukaww lenovo has no hdmi out22:29
Stskeepsyeah, sadly22:30
JulienfHey guys.22:30
lcuknot that it matters, as stated, n900 has decent video out when it works22:30
Stskeepsevening julien22:30
JulienfJust trying a client on my phone22:30
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npmgabrbedd: wow, the exopc screen works way better for mixxx than the lenovo22:31
JulienfReally need to set up a screen on an ssh. Not convenient at all from mobile otherwise..22:31
npmi can actually hit the crossfader on first attempt22:32
npmgabredd i'll have to look into a converter.... and actually, for DJing, I like running the mains digitally into a mastering processor/leveler/compressor22:33
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npmwhich also serves as a high quality D/A into the mains (aka no computer noise being amplified onto 10Kw soundsystem :-) )22:34
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Stskeepsi've reached a level of existence where i might actually have patches to contribute to qt22:36
* Stskeeps is a bit scared by that fact22:36
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andre__Stskeeps: congrats! I will hereby start to actually consider your opinions in this project. ;-)22:40
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alteregoHeh22:47
lcukStskeeps, I thought Qt became self aware a number of months ago?22:48
lcukStskeeps, which area are the patches in then?22:49
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* w00t still needs to verify windows autotest results before he can submit his latest patch22:51
alteregoHello julian, how's Finland?22:51
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w00talso I am never moving house ever, ever again22:51
alteregoThat good aye ..22:51
alteregoHeh22:52
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lcukw00t, where are you now?22:52
w00thull, right now22:53
w00tjust started on the packing/cleaning/throwing old crap out the past few days22:53
gabrbeddnpm: Yeah, the digitizer on the ideapad is not very responsive.  I can't even use it as a virtual keyboard controller.22:54
gabrbeddnpm: Also, the idea with HDMI audio outs... is that your video card serves as a 2nd sound card.22:54
gabrbeddnpm: In the case of N450 Atoms (pineview), the graphics card does not have the HDMI stuff in it.22:55
gabrbeddnpm: Thus... pinetrail does not have HDMI out of the box.  And if you ever see one, it's not /real/ HDMI.  It's either VGA-to-HDMI, or they've added some special hardware, or it's not really pinetrail.22:56
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lcukI want to get a high resolution dual mode laptop like ideapad22:58
lcuksomething to sit on the desk between me and my keyboard22:58
* lcuk has n900 there most of the time22:58
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alteregoWhat about 4 N900s :P23:06
alteregolcuk: you know you inverted AR demo?23:06
alteregoyour ..23:07
lcukyes23:07
alteregoDo you use that for anything practical. I'm just thinking, it'd be pretty cool in a looser context switching type setup23:07
alteregoIf I could use it to pan note screens in conboy or something, that's be neat :)23:08
lcukalterego, I put it to one side for a while, last I played with was using it as a mouse23:08
lcukthe n900 :)23:08
alteregoHeh23:08
alteregoHow accurate is it?23:08
lcukyou seen the videos23:09
lcukdownload the app and see for yourself23:09
lcukyou need 2 n900s23:09
lcukit uses one to project the sensor balls23:09
lcukthe other to position based on them23:09
alteregoOh, didn't realise you used two :)23:09
lcukpeople suggested using head mounted leds23:09
alteregoHeh, it'd move too much.23:10
lcukbut I spoke with professor phil from manchest university who has a really good facial tracking system23:10
lcuknot really, it is practical actually to consider it23:10
lcukwall mounted units23:10
lcukthat know which way you are coming into view from23:10
lcukwould know if you were walking out of the house to work23:10
lcukor home at the end of a day23:10
lcukare amusing ideas that crop up from the calendar and where you would mount it in your home23:11
alteregoI saw a really good recognition system a month ago, "predator" I think23:11
SpeedEvilTo catch a predator?23:11
lcuksounds comforting23:11
SpeedEvilNaah - it's a GPL thingy23:12
SpeedEvilvisual23:12
SpeedEvilI need to chase that up, biut it got buried in my stack.23:12
SpeedEvilhttp://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/2310-predator-better-than-kinect.html23:12
SpeedEviltat23:12
SpeedEvil^h23:13
alteregoI've just built Qt5 scenegraph and qml2 :)23:13
lcukalterego, the same build you started yesterday?23:13
alteregoGonna play with that a bit over the next week.23:13
alteregoIt was today :P23:13
alteregoIt built in about 4 hours,23:13
lcukalterego, planning anything fun for next week?23:13
alteregoYeah, thinking of doing something network transparent user interfaces.23:14
SpeedEvilalterego: http://projectiris.co.uk/ seen?23:15
SpeedEvilIris recongition23:15
Jaffaalterego: Building X network transparency on top of Qt 5 & Wayland. Hmm ;-)23:15
lcuknetwork transparency?23:15
alteregoI'm going to develop a UX that shows local apps, but when you move into a network, like home, or work, it picks up apps/services provided by other devices on the network.23:15
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julienfalterego: that's a great idea!23:16
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alteregoThe idea is you have a device, that gets services, apps and policies from an upstream root provider (in the future this would be you operator)23:16
alteregoBut it's obviously a large project. So I'm going to start in a more local manner.23:17
lcukI am going to teach the world to read.  One word at a time.23:17
alterego:)23:17
lcukjake knows the pieces of the time now23:17
lcukand can just glance over and tell the time23:18
* lcuk proud of him :)23:18
alteregoSo you get this pyramid, cascading service/app infrastructure. Walk in to a shopping mall and you can access info on all the deals in all the shops.23:18
alteregoOrder a ticket at the cinema, the use NFC to get into the theater.23:18
lcukshopping malls and wireless data23:18
lcukare normally a problem23:18
lcuk"tracy get me some shoes"   "sorry cant hear you, breaking up"23:19
DocScrutinizeralterego: wear asbestos underwear when you join next hacker congress23:19
alteregoDocScrutinizer: ?23:19
alteregolcuk: I'm just throwing out ideas of how this project could be utilised.23:20
DocScrutinizeralterego: I bet you'll beat M$ and Google and facebook on everybody's ranking of most hatred directions the IT could develop23:20
alteregoBut basically, the work/home network specific apps/services is the domain I'm going to be working on at Hactivate23:20
alteregoHaving my phone app accessible on the exo, on my tv and on my computer.23:22
* lcuk expects to do little in the way of code 23:22
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alteregoThat's one idea anyway :)23:22
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alteregojulienf: how's finland?23:25
julienfalterego: it's hot! :D23:25
alteregoIt's pissing it down here,23:26
alteregoFirst raink we've had in the UK for months23:26
alteregoAt least it feels like that.23:26
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julienfI think it would be needed in Finland too23:27
alteregojulienf: any chance of an angry birds demo for N900 Community Edition? :)23:27
* alterego grins menacingly.23:28
julienfalterego: I think we could do something about that. But might need to wait for a week or so. We're at max capacity right now.23:28
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alteregoThat would be amazing :)23:29
alteregoWould certainly make our summer release a lot shinier :)23:29
julienfwhen are you aiming to release?23:30
alterego21st I think.23:30
julienfthis month?23:31
alteregoYeah23:31
julienfhmm..23:31
julienfthat might be a bit difficult..23:31
Jaffaalterego: Sounds like a cross between Sun's Jini (network transparent devices protocol) and the "dream" of web services & service discovery.23:31
alteregoSo it is quite a tall order23:31
Jaffaalterego: But still cool to aim for :-)23:31
julienfsending an email to our dev to ask23:32
alteregoJaffa: yes, it's certainly inspired by Tim Bernes-Lee23:32
alteregojulienf: I really appreciate it :)23:32
SpeedEvilTBL hands out occasionally on another channel23:32
Jaffaalterego: Just build re-package Chromium from build.meego.com and provide an icon which launches http://chrome.angrybirds.com/23:33
SpeedEvilhangs23:33
alteregoHah23:33
Jaffajulienf: BTW, that HTML5 implementation is truly astounding. Kudos to y'all.23:33
StskeepsJaffa: you have no idea how @%@%^ chromium is to port23:33
julienfJaffa: thanks. Only the beginning :)23:33
alteregoWe've already tried chromium, not sure it even built.23:33
JaffaStskeeps: Doesn't OBS make it easy? ;-p23:33
JaffaStskeeps: Source goes in, binaries for multiple platforms & architectures comes out? ;-)23:34
w00tJaffa: provided the source is designed for multiple architectures..23:34
SpeedEvilIME source goes in, errors I don't understand come out.23:35
DocScrutinizerhah23:35
Jaffaw00t: Indeed, something I'm very aware of but has always been skirted around in MeeGo circles IMHO23:37
Jaffaw00t: c.f. points about some of the futility of the original aims of Compliance23:38
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julienfdoes anyone here know someone who could help with kernel and driver stuff?23:42
lcukJaffa, how would you change compliance then?23:43
lcuksince in your eyes the original aims are not met23:43
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berndhshe didn't say the aims have not been met :)23:46
Jaffalcuk: See the video from Dublin when I proposed *some* changes; and the mailing lists at the time when I said if Compliance's aim was not to guarantee a stable platform for developers, but to provide assurance to consumers about being able to take a compliant app and run it on their complaint system, it wouldn't work.23:46
JaffaAnd compliance *seems* more about the former now, which is fine.23:47
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lol_lol23:47
lol_hi guys23:48
julienfJaffa: both are needed. Think the later can be achieved if you have the former?23:48
lol_i have ask23:48
lcukJaffa, would it make more sense to try and outline the policies and improvements into one place?23:48
lol_when buy nokia n9 ?23:48
lcukI mean, the tsg would have to vote on this23:48
lcukand it would be helpful to put up a candidacy document?23:48
SpeedEvillol_: After it's available only - maybe.23:48
SpeedEvillol_: Nobody here is telling.23:49
ShadowJKIt doesn't exist as far as we know. :P23:49
lol_ok thanks23:49
Jaffajulienf: Doubtful. Because "Compliance" is too simplistic, even with the Profile overlays. See recent talk about "fat" RPMs, Chromium not being able to be built on ARM, screen sizes etc.23:50
Jaffalcuk: Two points - yes, the points were made in multiple places, and I tried to start a dialogue about it but Compliance is currently pretty unimportant compared with having hardware & apps (IMHO). Certainly IRC isn't going to be a third place.23:50
lol_i like development in meego23:51
Jaffalcuk: Secondly, candidacy document? That suggests a) there's a process for TSG membership and b) I'm in the process of putting myself forward for it (and c) that I'm going to write such a document whilst on holiday)23:51
lol_good web: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/es-es/meego23:52
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lcukJaffa, on the community page DawnFoster has you penciled in for twg23:52
lcuktsg23:52
Jaffalcuk: Such a document *may* start from http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2011/05/28/meego_conference_keynote_how_it_should_v of course ;-)23:52
Jaffalcuk: mikhas added that yesterday; but I think Stskeeps is right - it's not the right page.23:52
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Jaffalcuk: That's for the CO down, not the CO "up"23:53
lcukjust talking Jaffa, just assume that anyone that asks you would be trying to help you flesh out such a thing23:53
Jaffalcuk: thanks23:53
JaffaBed time now, though ;-)23:53
* lcuk nods23:53
julienfJaffa: good night :)23:53
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lol_good niht23:54
arfolladding meego1.2 repo on pub.build.meego.com makes a meego_trunk_standard repo. that's kinda ugly no? shouldn't it be calling it meego_1.2?23:55
lbtJaffa: quick ping23:59

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