IRC log of #meego for Sunday, 2011-06-12

w00t	flasher can either reflash your kernel, or be used to load a given kernel	00:00
w00t	(without actually flashing it)	00:00
DocScrutinizer	w00t: NB I'm also "evaluating the process" even when it's generic advice given in IRC	00:00
DocScrutinizer	w00t: I'm aware of the different options of flasher, yes	00:01
DocScrutinizer	w00t: would like a better explanation of what meego install does to my system	00:01
maligor	what does it use if it isn't das uboot?	00:01
w00t	it doesn't, because it's not installed	00:01
w00t	it's put on an SD card	00:01
w00t	maligor: without uboot, you need flasher to load the right kernel, afaik	00:02
maligor	was just wondering what bootloader it uses without	00:02
w00t	nolo	00:03
DocScrutinizer	so is meego still supposed to get "chainloaded" from maemo, by loading new kernel to RAM? Or is the setup so you can boot from uSD via uBoot?	00:03
DocScrutinizer	even both?	00:03
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maligor	nokia propietary huh	00:03
w00t	DocScrutinizer: I don't know about the former, the latter works, and is what I use	00:03
DocScrutinizer	ok	00:04
DocScrutinizer	I'll give it a try eventually. HAve to find a free uSD	00:04
maligor	the n900's I've used were setup to try to boot the kernel from sd first (they all had uboot)	00:07
maligor	never used a out of the box n900	00:07
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DocScrutinizer	that's not a good basement for a comprehensive comparison to get an idea what's user experience for those who usually do exactly that	00:11
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DocScrutinizer	(seen the "I works like a charm on my quad core devel station" syndrome way too often in my life...)	00:13
maligor	oh, my background is in messing with embedded hardware	00:13
maligor	including writing bootloaders	00:13
maligor	it's just that the n900 in my case was never the target hardware itself, but just a convenient test subject ;P	00:14
DocScrutinizer	probably little use to compare your new bootloader to the OOTB user experience ;-D	00:14
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maligor	yes, I never got any replies to it, people don't seem to have jtags	00:15
DocScrutinizer	rarely ever, yeah :-P	00:15
maligor	I mostly did it to install debian on it that didn't require kexec or rubbish like that	00:16
maligor	so it's not like I really care if anyone else ever did use it	00:16
DocScrutinizer	which is known to fail anyway	00:16
DocScrutinizer	(kexec)	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	well, we could get a script called kexec that calls falsher-3.5 ;-D	00:17
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maligor	well, in this case it did work, it's just so inelegant	00:19
DocScrutinizer	oh, working kexec on N900? which kernel? which system?	00:23
maligor	a completely different arm	00:23
maligor	and it wasn't kexec, but a hack	00:24
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Sundance_Kid	Anyone here know if I can test meego on a Thinkpad T61?	01:51
sofar	you should be able to, yes	01:51
sofar	even without installing using a liveboot image (netbook)	01:52
Sundance_Kid	Wuu! I am DL the image now. Just wanted to be sure	01:52
Sundance_Kid	By the screens it looks like an os I might want to keep	01:52
sofar	afaik t61's have intel GFX so you're good there	01:52
sofar	wireless should be ok too	01:52
Sundance_Kid	Nice	01:52
Sundance_Kid	Thanks for the info sofar	01:53
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Sundance_Kid	I seem to have some trouble running the live cd on my thinkpad t61. It gives me an error saying "Not mounted or bad option"	03:25
Sundance_Kid	Anyone know a way around this?	03:25
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gabrbedd	Sundance_Kid: What's the CPU and graphics card on your T61? And which live image are you trying?	03:32
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Sundance_Kid	2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo , Intel GMA X3100	03:34
Sundance_Kid	Meego with chrome	03:34
Sundance_Kid	1.2	03:34
gabrbedd	Sundance_Kid: Is this a pop-up window after you boot? Or is this in a console?	03:38
Sundance_Kid	console, as soon as I restart to boot in to the usb, I get the menu that allow me to boot meego, install, or boot from hd. When I click Meego it goes black and some text pop up saying not mounted or bad option.	03:40
gabrbedd	hmmm	03:41
Sundance_Kid	Indeed, I made the usb on ubuntu 10.10 using image writer	03:44
gabrbedd	??	03:44
gabrbedd	I thought you said you did a live cd?	03:44
Sundance_Kid	Im sorry. I meant to say live usb. my bad	03:44
gabrbedd	Did you use the same image writer that you use to create Ubuntu disks?	03:44
Sundance_Kid	No I got it after reading on the installation guide on the meego page	03:46
gabrbedd	ok. that's good.	03:46
Sundance_Kid	Normally I use Unetbootin	03:46
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gabrbedd	If you had used Ubuntu's thing that would have been the problem. Dunno if Unetbootin knows how to do Meego properly.	03:47
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gabrbedd	It could be a "bad burn"... errors on the drive.	03:47
gabrbedd	Some usb drives are worse about it than others.	03:47
Sundance_Kid	Is there a specific format the drive should be in? Fat or NTSF	03:48
gabrbedd	Maybe also try a different USB port on your computer. I have no real reason to suggest this -- but you never know.	03:48
gabrbedd	No... it's a low-level, byte-for-byte copy.	03:48
gabrbedd	If you've ever used `dd` in Linux... that's actually how most dev do it.	03:48
Sundance_Kid	Hmmm... I will burn it again on the usb and retry.	03:49
gabrbedd	After it's done... make give it about 60-90 seconds just to be sure.	03:52
gabrbedd	I'm going to watch a movie with the family.	03:52
gabrbedd	Godspeed!!	03:52
gabrbedd	:-)	03:52
Sundance_Kid	Thanx	03:52
Sundance_Kid	=)	03:53
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DocScrutinizer	dd, sync, eject	04:22
SpeedEvil	sync;sync;sync	04:25
DocScrutinizer	heard that's obsolete nowadays	04:26
DocScrutinizer	they fixed sync around 2005 ;-)	04:27
berndhs	can't be too careful	04:27
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SpeedEvil	ctrl-sysrq-whatever gets a workout sometimes too.	04:27
SpeedEvil	err - alt	04:28
DocScrutinizer	sync sometimes takes minutes here to return ;-D	04:28
berndhs	try sync to the cloud, could take days	04:28
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gabrbedd	Yeah.... but I wasn't sure if he was more of an end-user-type or not.	05:16
gabrbedd	I feel guilty when I say `oh yeah, just dd && sync && sleep 60 && sync`	05:16
gabrbedd	`duh`	05:16
gabrbedd	some flash drives are flat-out liars too.	05:17
gabrbedd	They say they're done... but they're not.	05:18
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berndhs	good night	06:14
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Termana	morning	06:32
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* Sage just tested another usb stick and with that the installation of tablet ux still stalls to the very end of copying files to hard drive		11:19
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Jaffa	mikhas: I think Stskeeps is right, my name's on the wrong page. GeneralAntilles suggested starting a TSG agenda page a few hours before Dawn published the CO mtg agenda	11:31
* Stskeeps would be interested to see the platform you're running on described :P		11:36
* Jaffa has been nominated by someone else at the moment :p		11:39
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Stskeeps	heh	11:40
Stskeeps	i kind of like CO's nominations this time around, niels & texrat definately has merit in the project for their roles, which is good to see	11:40
Jaffa	Anyway, time to go out with family and be a tourist all day.	11:40
Stskeeps	cya	11:40
Jaffa	Agreed	11:40
* lardman puzzles through the Proximus update logic		11:42
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* lardman wonders if he's made a mistake or if QtCreator just can't understand his multiple layers of nested classes		12:03
lardman	probably the former	12:03
thiago_home	it has a problem a while ago	12:04
thiago_home	classes inside functions for example	12:04
thiago_home	it had a problem, I mean	12:05
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lardman	ah ok, so I'll stop scratching my head and see what happens when I try to compile eventually	12:08
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Venemo	lardman, Qt Creator doesn't really like any esoteric stuff like that. eg. it doesn't support lambdas either	12:55
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lardman	I don't even know what a lambda is in the context of Qt/C++ :)	13:04
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alterego	QML has closures And anonymous functions.	13:33
alterego	:)	13:33
thiago_home	Venemo: I thought roberto had added lambda support for 2.2	13:34
thiago_home	are you using that?	13:34
thiago_home	lardman: [](){}()	13:35
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RST38h	Holy fuck, this Android stuff is an abomination =(	13:35
alterego	What Android stuff?	13:36
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arnotixe	hi all is it at all possible to boot meego-netbook-ia32/ meego 1.2.0 image on a desktop PC? Here it boots but I get "Cannot mount / or bad option", then "Cannot remount with SSD option" and it seems to stop there... (Booting from usb=	13:36
RST38h	alterego: I am trying to figure out how ot use Android SDK	13:36
Stskeeps	RST38h: so there's worse things than meego? ;)	13:36
RST38h	alterego: It gives Scratchbox a simple and familiar feel	13:36
RST38h	Stskeeps: Well, the Meego stuff, after you helped me installing it locally, feels like SB, more or less	13:37
RST38h	Stskeeps: The Android SDK feels like a bunch of undergrads have hastily laid a steaming pile of fecal matter and called it an "SDK".	13:38
alterego	Wow, that bad.	13:39
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phaeron	thiago_home: ping	13:48
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timakima	RST38h: really? i tried it couple of months ago and it was easy to install and worked out of the box. didn't do much more than "hello world" with it though.	13:51
timakima	same thing with ndk	13:51
RST38h	Ahahaha	13:56
RST38h	Here are the simplest NDK instructions I could find: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/android/ndk-tutorial/	13:57
RST38h	Read and weep.	13:57
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thiago_home	phaeron: pong	14:13
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RST38h	Ok, native part builds now	14:18
RST38h	Now the dreadful Dalvik part...	14:18
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RST38h	Ehehe, none of the tools written in Java and supplied with the SDK run. They all end up with a Java exception of one kind or another.	14:22
thiago_home	char *szFormat = "The sum of the two numbers is: %i";	14:22
thiago_home	eww	14:22
RST38h	Thereis something called Jython. Python implemented in Java? =)	14:23
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alterego	And JRuby :)	14:28
thiago_home	how about a pyjava?	14:30
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lcuk	thiago_home, as long as you run it in a QML instance	14:32
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alterego	pyjamas	14:32
thiago_home	sounds like a good name for the project	14:33
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lcuk	alterego, are you already pondering next week?	14:36
* lcuk was rather hopeful tracy would have had baby already		14:36
lcuk	http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jun/01/hactivate	14:37
alterego	lcuk: I am pondering it yes :)	14:39
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alterego	Only doing handset and tablet now?	14:48
alterego	No tablet-apps?	14:48
alterego	Oh, whoops, wrong room :)	14:49
alterego	What's the name of the kernel headers package in meego?	14:50
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Stskeeps	kernel-headers or kernel-adaptation-n900-devel	14:51
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alterego	Where does it install the headers to?	14:51
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lcuk	alterego, so have you got any life changing apps?	14:52
lcuk	or ideas to implement	14:52
alterego	lcuk: I've got one, but it's huge	14:52
alterego	So I might have to cheat and do a bit over this week.	14:52
alterego	Write a few libs I can use at the event.	14:53
alterego	What about yourself?	14:53
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lcuk	my life changes daily	14:53
lcuk	and each time it does I come up with a new app to help	14:53
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lcuk	so, yeahh I have a few thoughts	14:53
lcuk	alterego, when we were talking qml a few weeks ago about position indicators, I realised I had not put the fix in place in liq*	14:54
alterego	Cool	14:54
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110611_212411.liqed.scr.png	14:55
alterego	Heh	14:55
alterego	Cool	14:55
lcuk	translucent blue scroll indicators :D	14:55
lcuk	on x and y	14:55
alterego	Yeah, I've got that in dialer :)	14:55
lcuk	where does dialer need that?	14:56
lcuk	you don't have to pan around to see?	14:56
alterego	History, Contacts, Favourites	14:56
alterego	Well, no, just on y	14:56
alterego	But the code does x & y	14:56
alterego	I wrote it to be generic.	14:56
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lcuk	I thought actual kinetics were a sorted issue?	14:57
alterego	Hrm?	14:57
alterego	We're talking about the indicators right?	14:57
* lcuk just had a math equation missing for the indicator position		14:57
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alterego	Oh right	14:58
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lcuk	yeah indicators are the visual portion to kinetics	14:58
alterego	You have to roll your own in QML	14:58
lcuk	so we still have many different kinetics?	14:58
* lcuk expected useKinetics(true);		14:59
alterego	I've never heard it called kinetics	14:59
alterego	The point about QML is, no UI definitions	15:00
alterego	Why would you want it to draw them? It should be left to the UI element designer.	15:00
lcuk	and for a long list	15:00
lcuk	how do you pan to the bottom of it?	15:00
alterego	That, has only been a problem since I imported my ~220 contacts from Maemo :P	15:00
alterego	So I'm working on it.	15:00
lcuk	:)	15:00
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alterego	I'll probably do something similar to how the people app works, with A-Z buttons down the _left_ handside.	15:01
lcuk	i just make a ui element larger than its container (which then defines the kinetic area)	15:01
alterego	Seems more intuitive to be having them down the left.	15:01
lcuk	and bind the mouse event to a standard kinetic handler	15:01
lcuk	all lists, grids, pictures, pages etc all act and feel the same	15:01
alterego	Yeah, same with my code really.	15:02
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RST38h	Oh fuck, it is PalmOS all over again =(	15:02
RST38h	No static data.	15:02
alterego	lcuk: You just do something like: ListView { ScrollIndicator { target: parent } }	15:03
lcuk	alterego, but how do you handle the mouse events?	15:04
alterego	I don't need to.	15:04
lcuk	the ermmm Qt description is flickable?	15:04
alterego	A ListView inherits Flickable	15:04
alterego	My "ScrollIndicator" just relies on its' parent being a "Flickable"	15:04
lcuk	that is good then	15:05
alterego	Yeah, works really nicely :)	15:05
lcuk	apart from that you cannot use it for your contacts that easily	15:06
alterego	You mean for quick navigation?	15:06
* lcuk pleased you have real data in the list now		15:06
alterego	It's just a visual indicator.	15:06
lcuk	yeah	15:06
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alterego	But you're right, I should have done the contact import thing ages ago.	15:10
alterego	The people app takes _ages_ to startup when you've got loads of contacts btw.	15:11
alterego	It's awful, I got the "Do you want to close" dialog about 4 times.	15:11
Stskeeps	heh	15:11
Stskeeps	and who said tracker was perfoming well..	15:11
alterego	It works great in dialer.	15:12
alterego	Doesn't effect startup time at all.	15:12
alterego	Scrolling is nice and fluid.	15:12
Stskeeps	interesting	15:13
alterego	But then, dialer is prestarted ;)	15:14
alterego	So maybe it effects X startup time :D	15:14
alterego	I've not noticed it though, so ..	15:15
* alterego contemplates more things to download.		15:16
alterego	Whilst I have access to my parents broadband ;)	15:17
* Stskeeps watches qt5 build		15:17
alterego	Ooo, latest meego tablet release.	15:17
alterego	How's that stuff coming along Stskeeps ?	15:17
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Stskeeps	good	15:18
Stskeeps	i had the minimal plugin (write to png files) working	15:18
alterego	What is the correct target for exopc?	15:18
alterego	is it pinetrail or oaktrail?	15:19
ab	png is slow :(	15:19
alterego	Cool	15:19
alterego	pinetrail it is ..	15:20
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Stskeeps	ab, yeah, but first step, got eglfs and wayland too	15:20
ab	Stskeeps, good!	15:21
ab	hopefully there will be enough bright minds to continue imaging topics around Qt :)	15:21
* alterego googles eglfs		15:21
Stskeeps	alterego: full screen egl basically	15:22
alterego	Ah, right	15:22
ab	alterego, it is not a file system :)	15:22
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alterego	That's why I was curious :D	15:22
* alterego wonders if there's a Qt5 ppa for ubuntu		15:23
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alterego	Stskeeps: what do I need to compile to get Qt5/SceneGraph?	15:28
alterego	Ah, found a cool article.	15:29
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lcuk	ab png on which device?	15:42
alterego	What does the P stand for?	15:45
ShadowJK	the P in what	15:48
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lcuk	Stskeeps, alterego - the things about tracker and slowness when filled up - this is a global problem with lab apps, until the real data is included any app works well	15:50
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Venemo	[12:34] <thiago_home> Venemo: I thought roberto had added lambda support for 2.2 --> this is news to me!	15:57
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Venemo	thiago_home, that is definitely not the case	16:04
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Venemo	thiago_home, I use 2.2.0 and it definitely underlines lambdas and says, "undefined function"	16:04
thiago_home	Venemo: ok	16:04
Venemo	thiago_home, the bug is described in http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-4439	16:05
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Venemo	thiago_home, if someone really added this feature, it would be nice of you if you could please point me to a nightly or prerelease version that has it.	16:06
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Sage	Ok, so the exopc installation stalls before the "installing bootloader" comes to screen.	17:32
Sage	At least this iamge workes: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.1.20110523.3	17:32
Sage	need to download few more images :)	17:33
alterego	Oh, great, I downloaded that image earlier ..	17:33
alterego	Is d.m.c running slow for you today?	17:33
alterego	I'm getting < 300KB/s	17:34
Sage	yes a bit slow	17:34
alterego	Might try it through my server	17:34
alterego	That's an old image,.	17:36
alterego	Why not 0601?	17:36
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alterego	Oh, it doesn't exist ..	17:36
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Sage	http://pastie.org/2056645	17:36
Sage	Next image to test: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110531.84.img	17:37
alterego	That's the one I'm downloading lnow	17:37
alterego	I'm getting 8MB/s on my server	17:37
alterego	Do you want me to stick it up for you?	17:37
alterego	It'll be on my server in 40 seconds	17:38
alterego	You should get a better dl rate I reckon.	17:38
Sage	nah, I'm done in 5mins	17:38
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Sage	getting 800kb/s atm.	17:38
alterego	m'kay	17:38
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alterego	Interesting, seems my parents internet connection is crappy atm.	17:41
CosmoHill	alterego: ah I see, Tar 1.17 was the last to be licensed under GPL v2	17:43
CosmoHill	why not use BSD tar if you want to avoid GPL v3?	17:43
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alterego	CosmoHill: why don't you ask on the ML :)	17:44
* CosmoHill goes to find the mailing list		17:45
CosmoHill	there's quite a few	17:45
ab	lcuk, there are no simd optimizations in libpng upstream anymore. The were no arm optimizations and intel ones were removed due to some licensing mess	17:45
lcuk	oh deay me	17:46
lcuk	deary*	17:46
lcuk	ab, those optimsations really helped performance	17:46
lcuk	lots and lots of apps need fast loading images	17:46
ab	I know :)	17:46
lcuk	and improvements there will improve loading time of practically every single app	17:46
CosmoHill	meego-dev seems about right?	17:46
ab	I've got jpeg loading to pretty decent levels	17:46
lcuk	if only due to the icons!	17:46
lcuk	nice!	17:47
ab	and even open sourced what went into fremantle	17:47
lcuk	lots of Contact avatars are stored as png nowadays I noticed	17:47
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lcuk	yeah I know, I saw the jpeg stuff last year when I was on fremantle duties	17:47
ab	Linaro even wanted to use them in their long standing work on jpeg optimizations. Unfortunately, the end result is quite dumb.	17:47
ab	lcuk, it is on gitorious now	17:48
lcuk	I think I saw it	17:48
lcuk	I was pondering using libquill for some things	17:48
ab	all Linaro got is 20% improvement over stock libjpeg-turbo	17:48
ab	where we've got 2x-3x	17:48
lcuk	20% is massive in optimisation terms though	17:48
lcuk	:O even more so	17:48
lcuk	holy heck ab, you have been busy :D	17:49
ab	lcuk, yep, sort of. :)	17:49
ab	a typical grid thumbnail loading now is under 1ms	17:49
alterego	Avatar copying in my contacts stuff seems broken.	17:49
lcuk	yeah I use libpng in liqbase and noticed improvements	17:50
ab	unfortunately, not open source	17:50
alterego	I think I might have to do something to the image data field ..	17:50
lcuk	and libjpg *	17:50
lcuk	alterego, that was the only thing I made work	17:50
lcuk	I have had a users grid for ages, but it was static data	17:50
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lcuk	now on startup, it reads that "Exported contacts" folder	17:50
alterego	My handset is saying the image data is corrupt, need to look into it.	17:50
lcuk	and fills in live data	17:50
lcuk	extracting the images on the fly	17:50
lcuk	then runs base64 on them and loads from /tmp	17:51
alterego	I also need to package up that app for you to use ;)	17:51
lcuk	it needs to be integrated in the dailies	17:51
alterego	Indeed	17:51
alterego	I need to package it first though.	17:51
lcuk	to mount that folder and import into meego n900-ce	17:51
* CosmoHill is confused by all the different mailing lists		17:51
alterego	CosmoHill: meego-dev is right	17:51
lcuk	CosmoHill, just signup for all of them	17:51
CosmoHill	thanks alterego	17:52
lcuk	including the #meego-food	17:52
lcuk	:P	17:52
lcuk	do I need a QApplication to make use of qtmobility?	17:52
lcuk	ie, can I use the library without needing graphical qt?	17:53
lcuk	so I could just use the mobility interfaces but some random unknown rendering toolkit	17:53
ab	qcoreapplication in most cases is enough	17:53
* lcuk gets confused by qt build system so might have trouble		17:53
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alterego	Good morning DawnFoster	17:55
DawnFoster	afternoon alterego	17:55
CosmoHill	sent	17:55
CosmoHill	hi DawnFoster	17:55
DawnFoster	hey CosmoHill	17:55
maligor	You'll need to add some annoying glue into it if you use a different gui	17:55
alterego	lcuk: look at my app, I use mobility in a console app	17:56
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: btw, kudos for nominating people with clear merit in CO :)	17:56
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: thanks! I'm probably missing someone	17:57
lcuk	alterego, interesting	17:57
lcuk	DawnFoster, where is the list?	17:57
lcuk	and good morning	17:57
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: and your presentation during the conference was what prompted me to get off my butt & get the CO organized again	17:57
Stskeeps	:nod: happy to see it	17:57
alterego	lcuk: https://gitorious.org/meego-projects/qtcontacts-vcard-import	17:58
alterego	I've moved the repository btw ;)	17:58
DawnFoster	lcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Proposed_CO_Nominations_June2011	17:58
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DawnFoster	we have a meeting on Tuesday to talk about them before I take them for ratification to tsg http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings	17:58
DawnFoster	and feel free to make suggestions for CO nominations at any time	17:59
CosmoHill	alterego: I think my email has been caught in the spam filter	17:59
DawnFoster	lcuk: Did you see that my cookbook is out now :) http://whatdawneats.com/2011/06/buy-the-cookbook-now/	17:59
alterego	CosmoHill: give it time :P	18:00
CosmoHill	well I did end my email with "are you looking for cheap car insurance?"	18:00
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* Sage downloads yet another tablet image		18:00
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alterego	Sage: was that image crap?	18:04
Sage	no that worked	18:06
Sage	updated the pastie	18:06
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Sage	http://pastie.org/2056645	18:06
Sage	so downloading 0602 now	18:07
Sage	after that 0603 and 0606 if needed.	18:08
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Sage	alterego: ok so it breaks between meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110531.84.img and meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110602.81.img	18:22
Stskeeps	kernel used in each is?	18:23
Stskeeps	check pkgs	18:23
phaeron	thiago_home: sorry was away. can I pm please ?	18:24
thiago_home	phaeron: yes	18:24
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alterego	So 0531 works?	18:29
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Sage	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18912	18:30
MeeGoBot	Bug 18912 maj, Undecided, ---, chengwei.yang, NEW, Unable to install latest snapshots to exopc	18:30
Sage	kernel-adaptation-pinetrail.i586 2.6.38.2-8.13 vs kernel-adaptation-pinetrail.i586 2.6.38.2-8.13 so the same	18:31
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Sage	what provides package installer-launch?	18:38
Sage	ah, installer shell	18:38
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Sage	alterego: ^ if you are interested of that bug	18:45
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alterego	Thanks	18:46
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alterego	Now it's compiling qt3 support. URgh	18:57
alterego	I don't even want Qt3 support.	18:57
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Vitna	someone know if nokia rm680 will have meego or harmanattan maemo 6	19:09
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maligor	you think they'd be at liberty to say	19:10
Vitna	yes this isnt an information confidentially	19:11
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maligor	I never followed the harmanattan stuff, but I assumed it was just the nokia version of meego	19:12
Vitna	there is some information that they are at liberty to say?	19:12
Vitna	harmanattan is maemo not meego	19:13
Vitna	as far as i know	19:13
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Vitna	there is some way for known some information about rm680(€€€)	19:16
thiago_home	Vitna: any information about non-released products is confidential	19:18
thiago_home	so you won't be getting it here	19:18
alterego	It'll be running Harmattan, there's plenty of information on this.	19:18
alterego	Why come here and ask?	19:18
Vitna	because i am crazy	19:18
Vitna	the wait is so frustrating	19:18
maligor	the thing is tho, any actual devels who'd work on it couldn't talk about it atall	19:19
Vitna	i tought someone want earn an extra and so can call me	19:20
Vitna	but i am wrong	19:20
SpeedEvil	And they can lose their job.	19:20
SpeedEvil	And possibly be sued.	19:21
Vitna	okok but nokia doesnt kill them	19:21
Vitna	how nokia can known who is the leaker?	19:22
SpeedEvil	No, they don't.	19:22
maligor	wiki says harmattan is maemo base with meego ux	19:22
SpeedEvil	They outsource NDA assassinations.	19:22
berndhs	well, it they leak it here, it's pretty much public knowledge who it was :)	19:22
maligor	so I guess it's not really meego as such	19:22
SpeedEvil	Vitna: For example - you may be a nokia employee	19:22
maligor	the nokia inquisition department	19:23
Vitna	yes i am the killer for the leaker	19:23
Vitna	you have uncovered me	19:23
Vitna	:)	19:23
SpeedEvil	Nobody expects the Symbian inquisition!	19:23
Vitna	i hope only that mrflop decide to sell this damn phone before the end of world in 2012	19:24
Vitna	but you are all meego devs?	19:24
alterego	Ah, now it's compiling the examples :)	19:24
iekku	Vitna, not all of us :P	19:25
Vitna	good i am not	19:25
maligor	I'm not sure how to take that.. is it good not being a meego devel or good that there are people here who aren't meego devels just like you? ;P	19:26
iekku	but like thiago_home said, if there isn't any released device, there isn't any information	19:27
iekku	only rumours	19:27
iekku	and rumours usually does only harm	19:27
iekku	so let's avoid them	19:27
Vitna	but you(all) think that ther will be a released device(handset) before the end of world?	19:28
maligor	They did release dnf before the end of the world too	19:28
Vitna	what is dnf	19:29
maligor	heh	19:29
maligor	a computer game that was developed for 14 years	19:29
Vitna	oh good	19:29
Vitna	is like pandora?	19:29
maligor	you mean openpandora?	19:30
Vitna	yeh	19:30
maligor	I'm not sure how they'd compare, it was a high profile title	19:30
Vitna	it isnt totally community driven	19:30
maligor	openpandora is a low profile project	19:30
Vitna	?	19:30
maligor	no	19:30
maligor	dnf aka Duke Nukem Forever	19:31
Vitna	duke nuken is an old game	19:31
maligor	yes, they made a sequel to it, took 14 years	19:31
maligor	I wonder how much money they spent on it	19:32
maligor	I do hope the nokia phone won't turn out similar	19:32
Vitna	i hope only that nokia phone exist	19:33
Vitna	:0	19:33
Vitna	:D	19:34
Vitna	why there isnt a meego-games channel?	19:34
maligor	I'm sure there's prototype devices of it	19:34
Vitna	yes i know u have it	19:34
maligor	no, I don't work for nokia	19:35
Vitna	yes and i am not here ;)	19:35
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alterego	There is at least one Harmattan device, which will be released soon	19:36
Vitna	i hope before of soon	19:36
maligor	the harmattan wristwatch!	19:36
Vitna	wristwatch?	19:36
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iekku	Vitna, to be exact, there's one nokia phone with meego already	19:37
iekku	Vitna, you can run meego on the N900	19:37
Vitna	yep	19:37
maligor	for a limited value of run	19:37
Vitna	i used DE	19:37
Vitna	but now on microsd i have nitdroid	19:37
Vitna	someone know if this damn rm680 will run deb or rpm?	19:38
Vitna	we have to know for develop application	19:39
maligor	why?	19:39
maligor	packaging takes about... a day	19:39
Vitna	ok i can develop in qml	19:39
Vitna	?	19:39
Vitna	or i have to dwnload meego sdk	19:40
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Vitna	actually i use qt sdk 1.1 for s3 and maemo	19:40
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Vitna	also the screen resolution	19:41
Vitna	is a mistery	19:41
maligor	if it does use the meego handset ux, then yes, it would have to have qml	19:41
Vitna	if someone work in nokia can tell mrflop that he is a stupid incompetent?	19:41
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iekku	Vitna, that road doesn't take anyone to anywhere	19:43
Vitna	i think when rm680 will be in market there is not apps because mrflop don tell us anithing on device	19:43
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dragunov11	hey, am having build issues with meego 1.2	19:44
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Vitna	byebye i have broken your ball too much sorry	19:46
dragunov11	while compiling, i get this - Invalid configuration `i686-pc-linux-'	19:46
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dragunov11	any way i can fix that?	19:47
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dragunov11	ok, got the solution :P .	19:48
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bash`	hi all	20:37
bash`	where can I download madde-0.7.63.tar.gz?	20:37
sofar	unpack the src.rpm	20:42
bash`	sofar: hi, si the only way?	20:42
bash`	is*	20:42
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sofar	http://download.meego.com/live/Tools:/SDK:/Host/Trunk/src/	20:43
bash`	yes then	20:44
bash`	ok thanks	20:44
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lcuk	a question about the ideapad	21:33
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lcuk	I can only seem to get VGA-out working with transfer display to monitor	21:33
lcuk	I want to keep the laptop lit	21:33
lcuk	but show the contents on the vga	21:33
lcuk	a clone mode so to speak	21:33
npm	what happens when you hit fn-display multiple times?	21:34
lcuk	flips between internal/external	21:35
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lcuk	and of course that is not good for presenting touch app	21:36
lcuk	since on external, the screen resolution changes	21:36
lcuk	but the touchscreen sensor is then working blind	21:36
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npm	i think you'll have to edit /etc/X11/ and frob your server config	21:37
npm	xorg.conf(5)	21:38
npm	setup Screen sections and Display sections as needed	21:39
npm	you may have to find some impossible mode where you can drive both your onboard and offscreen monitors at same rate	21:39
lcuk	npm	21:40
lcuk	xvideo can technically do that	21:40
lcuk	and on other laptops they stretch too	21:40
lcuk	for mirrored mode video out	21:40
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lcuk	but it is the ideapad itself that wont	21:40
* lcuk can happily use n900 instead :)		21:40
npm	it's really just a matter of copying some existing X config that works on the ideapad from somebody else that's geeked out all the display modes	21:41
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lcuk	then were do I find x config geeks who also hang out around meego and who have ideapads to test	21:41
lcuk	s/were/where/	21:41
infobot	lcuk meant: then where do I find x config geeks who also hang out around meego and who have ideapads to test	21:41
npm	it's really just a matter of googling... the issues are the exact same for any distro	21:43
npm	that use X	21:43
npm	chances are you could drop a live-image of fedora on it and see if the display does something sensible (it probably will) and then copy the config if it works.	21:44
lcuk	alterego, ping another question: sleeping arrangements for saturday	21:44
lcuk	npm I gather ubuntu would be the same	21:44
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npm	yes, but it depends on the rev.	21:45
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lcuk	shudder	21:46
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npm	speaking of outputs, has anybody figured out how to get the digital audio out on the HDMI --> SPDIF?	21:48
npm	i guess i could just have ALSA talk to 'hdmi:CARD=Intel,DEV=0' but is there a mini-hdmi->spdif converter?	21:50
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npm	that would give two PCI-based stereo pairs to work with, one for headphone monitors, one for mains.... ( gabrbedd ? )	21:50
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npm	^^ ExoPC	21:51
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gabrbedd	npm: We usually just run the HDMI to a TV and use that as the 2nd audio out. I don't know of any cables to split out just the audio from the HDMI.	22:25
gabrbedd	npm: Indamixx calls it "HDMI DJ's"	22:25
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lcuk	aww lenovo has no hdmi out	22:29
Stskeeps	yeah, sadly	22:30
Julienf	Hey guys.	22:30
lcuk	not that it matters, as stated, n900 has decent video out when it works	22:30
Stskeeps	evening julien	22:30
Julienf	Just trying a client on my phone	22:30
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npm	gabrbedd: wow, the exopc screen works way better for mixxx than the lenovo	22:31
Julienf	Really need to set up a screen on an ssh. Not convenient at all from mobile otherwise..	22:31
npm	i can actually hit the crossfader on first attempt	22:32
npm	gabredd i'll have to look into a converter.... and actually, for DJing, I like running the mains digitally into a mastering processor/leveler/compressor	22:33
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npm	which also serves as a high quality D/A into the mains (aka no computer noise being amplified onto 10Kw soundsystem :-) )	22:34
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Stskeeps	i've reached a level of existence where i might actually have patches to contribute to qt	22:36
* Stskeeps is a bit scared by that fact		22:36
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andre__	Stskeeps: congrats! I will hereby start to actually consider your opinions in this project. ;-)	22:40
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alterego	Heh	22:47
lcuk	Stskeeps, I thought Qt became self aware a number of months ago?	22:48
lcuk	Stskeeps, which area are the patches in then?	22:49
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* w00t still needs to verify windows autotest results before he can submit his latest patch		22:51
alterego	Hello julian, how's Finland?	22:51
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w00t	also I am never moving house ever, ever again	22:51
alterego	That good aye ..	22:51
alterego	Heh	22:52
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lcuk	w00t, where are you now?	22:52
w00t	hull, right now	22:53
w00t	just started on the packing/cleaning/throwing old crap out the past few days	22:53
gabrbedd	npm: Yeah, the digitizer on the ideapad is not very responsive. I can't even use it as a virtual keyboard controller.	22:54
gabrbedd	npm: Also, the idea with HDMI audio outs... is that your video card serves as a 2nd sound card.	22:54
gabrbedd	npm: In the case of N450 Atoms (pineview), the graphics card does not have the HDMI stuff in it.	22:55
gabrbedd	npm: Thus... pinetrail does not have HDMI out of the box. And if you ever see one, it's not /real/ HDMI. It's either VGA-to-HDMI, or they've added some special hardware, or it's not really pinetrail.	22:56
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lcuk	I want to get a high resolution dual mode laptop like ideapad	22:58
lcuk	something to sit on the desk between me and my keyboard	22:58
* lcuk has n900 there most of the time		22:58
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alterego	What about 4 N900s :P	23:06
alterego	lcuk: you know you inverted AR demo?	23:06
alterego	your ..	23:07
lcuk	yes	23:07
alterego	Do you use that for anything practical. I'm just thinking, it'd be pretty cool in a looser context switching type setup	23:07
alterego	If I could use it to pan note screens in conboy or something, that's be neat :)	23:08
lcuk	alterego, I put it to one side for a while, last I played with was using it as a mouse	23:08
lcuk	the n900 :)	23:08
alterego	Heh	23:08
alterego	How accurate is it?	23:08
lcuk	you seen the videos	23:09
lcuk	download the app and see for yourself	23:09
lcuk	you need 2 n900s	23:09
lcuk	it uses one to project the sensor balls	23:09
lcuk	the other to position based on them	23:09
alterego	Oh, didn't realise you used two :)	23:09
lcuk	people suggested using head mounted leds	23:09
alterego	Heh, it'd move too much.	23:10
lcuk	but I spoke with professor phil from manchest university who has a really good facial tracking system	23:10
lcuk	not really, it is practical actually to consider it	23:10
lcuk	wall mounted units	23:10
lcuk	that know which way you are coming into view from	23:10
lcuk	would know if you were walking out of the house to work	23:10
lcuk	or home at the end of a day	23:10
lcuk	are amusing ideas that crop up from the calendar and where you would mount it in your home	23:11
alterego	I saw a really good recognition system a month ago, "predator" I think	23:11
SpeedEvil	To catch a predator?	23:11
lcuk	sounds comforting	23:11
SpeedEvil	Naah - it's a GPL thingy	23:12
SpeedEvil	visual	23:12
SpeedEvil	I need to chase that up, biut it got buried in my stack.	23:12
SpeedEvil	http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/2310-predator-better-than-kinect.html	23:12
SpeedEvil	tat	23:12
SpeedEvil	^h	23:13
alterego	I've just built Qt5 scenegraph and qml2 :)	23:13
lcuk	alterego, the same build you started yesterday?	23:13
alterego	Gonna play with that a bit over the next week.	23:13
alterego	It was today :P	23:13
alterego	It built in about 4 hours,	23:13
lcuk	alterego, planning anything fun for next week?	23:13
alterego	Yeah, thinking of doing something network transparent user interfaces.	23:14
SpeedEvil	alterego: http://projectiris.co.uk/ seen?	23:15
SpeedEvil	Iris recongition	23:15
Jaffa	alterego: Building X network transparency on top of Qt 5 & Wayland. Hmm ;-)	23:15
lcuk	network transparency?	23:15
alterego	I'm going to develop a UX that shows local apps, but when you move into a network, like home, or work, it picks up apps/services provided by other devices on the network.	23:15
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julienf	alterego: that's a great idea!	23:16
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alterego	The idea is you have a device, that gets services, apps and policies from an upstream root provider (in the future this would be you operator)	23:16
alterego	But it's obviously a large project. So I'm going to start in a more local manner.	23:17
lcuk	I am going to teach the world to read. One word at a time.	23:17
alterego	:)	23:17
lcuk	jake knows the pieces of the time now	23:17
lcuk	and can just glance over and tell the time	23:18
* lcuk proud of him :)		23:18
alterego	So you get this pyramid, cascading service/app infrastructure. Walk in to a shopping mall and you can access info on all the deals in all the shops.	23:18
alterego	Order a ticket at the cinema, the use NFC to get into the theater.	23:18
lcuk	shopping malls and wireless data	23:18
lcuk	are normally a problem	23:18
lcuk	"tracy get me some shoes" "sorry cant hear you, breaking up"	23:19
DocScrutinizer	alterego: wear asbestos underwear when you join next hacker congress	23:19
alterego	DocScrutinizer: ?	23:19
alterego	lcuk: I'm just throwing out ideas of how this project could be utilised.	23:20
DocScrutinizer	alterego: I bet you'll beat M$ and Google and facebook on everybody's ranking of most hatred directions the IT could develop	23:20
alterego	But basically, the work/home network specific apps/services is the domain I'm going to be working on at Hactivate	23:20
alterego	Having my phone app accessible on the exo, on my tv and on my computer.	23:22
* lcuk expects to do little in the way of code		23:22
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alterego	That's one idea anyway :)	23:22
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alterego	julienf: how's finland?	23:25
julienf	alterego: it's hot! :D	23:25
alterego	It's pissing it down here,	23:26
alterego	First raink we've had in the UK for months	23:26
alterego	At least it feels like that.	23:26
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julienf	I think it would be needed in Finland too	23:27
alterego	julienf: any chance of an angry birds demo for N900 Community Edition? :)	23:27
* alterego grins menacingly.		23:28
julienf	alterego: I think we could do something about that. But might need to wait for a week or so. We're at max capacity right now.	23:28
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alterego	That would be amazing :)	23:29
alterego	Would certainly make our summer release a lot shinier :)	23:29
julienf	when are you aiming to release?	23:30
alterego	21st I think.	23:30
julienf	this month?	23:31
alterego	Yeah	23:31
julienf	hmm..	23:31
julienf	that might be a bit difficult..	23:31
Jaffa	alterego: Sounds like a cross between Sun's Jini (network transparent devices protocol) and the "dream" of web services & service discovery.	23:31
alterego	So it is quite a tall order	23:31
Jaffa	alterego: But still cool to aim for :-)	23:31
julienf	sending an email to our dev to ask	23:32
alterego	Jaffa: yes, it's certainly inspired by Tim Bernes-Lee	23:32
alterego	julienf: I really appreciate it :)	23:32
SpeedEvil	TBL hands out occasionally on another channel	23:32
Jaffa	alterego: Just build re-package Chromium from build.meego.com and provide an icon which launches http://chrome.angrybirds.com/	23:33
SpeedEvil	hangs	23:33
alterego	Hah	23:33
Jaffa	julienf: BTW, that HTML5 implementation is truly astounding. Kudos to y'all.	23:33
Stskeeps	Jaffa: you have no idea how @%@%^ chromium is to port	23:33
julienf	Jaffa: thanks. Only the beginning :)	23:33
alterego	We've already tried chromium, not sure it even built.	23:33
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Doesn't OBS make it easy? ;-p	23:33
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Source goes in, binaries for multiple platforms & architectures comes out? ;-)	23:34
w00t	Jaffa: provided the source is designed for multiple architectures..	23:34
SpeedEvil	IME source goes in, errors I don't understand come out.	23:35
DocScrutinizer	hah	23:35
Jaffa	w00t: Indeed, something I'm very aware of but has always been skirted around in MeeGo circles IMHO	23:37
Jaffa	w00t: c.f. points about some of the futility of the original aims of Compliance	23:38
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julienf	does anyone here know someone who could help with kernel and driver stuff?	23:42
lcuk	Jaffa, how would you change compliance then?	23:43
lcuk	since in your eyes the original aims are not met	23:43
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berndhs	he didn't say the aims have not been met :)	23:46
Jaffa	lcuk: See the video from Dublin when I proposed some changes; and the mailing lists at the time when I said if Compliance's aim was not to guarantee a stable platform for developers, but to provide assurance to consumers about being able to take a compliant app and run it on their complaint system, it wouldn't work.	23:46
Jaffa	And compliance seems more about the former now, which is fine.	23:47
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lol_	lol	23:47
lol_	hi guys	23:48
julienf	Jaffa: both are needed. Think the later can be achieved if you have the former?	23:48
lol_	i have ask	23:48
lcuk	Jaffa, would it make more sense to try and outline the policies and improvements into one place?	23:48
lol_	when buy nokia n9 ?	23:48
lcuk	I mean, the tsg would have to vote on this	23:48
lcuk	and it would be helpful to put up a candidacy document?	23:48
SpeedEvil	lol_: After it's available only - maybe.	23:48
SpeedEvil	lol_: Nobody here is telling.	23:49
ShadowJK	It doesn't exist as far as we know. :P	23:49
lol_	ok thanks	23:49
Jaffa	julienf: Doubtful. Because "Compliance" is too simplistic, even with the Profile overlays. See recent talk about "fat" RPMs, Chromium not being able to be built on ARM, screen sizes etc.	23:50
Jaffa	lcuk: Two points - yes, the points were made in multiple places, and I tried to start a dialogue about it but Compliance is currently pretty unimportant compared with having hardware & apps (IMHO). Certainly IRC isn't going to be a third place.	23:50
lol_	i like development in meego	23:51
Jaffa	lcuk: Secondly, candidacy document? That suggests a) there's a process for TSG membership and b) I'm in the process of putting myself forward for it (and c) that I'm going to write such a document whilst on holiday)	23:51
lol_	good web: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/es-es/meego	23:52
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lcuk	Jaffa, on the community page DawnFoster has you penciled in for twg	23:52
lcuk	tsg	23:52
Jaffa	lcuk: Such a document may start from http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2011/05/28/meego_conference_keynote_how_it_should_v of course ;-)	23:52
Jaffa	lcuk: mikhas added that yesterday; but I think Stskeeps is right - it's not the right page.	23:52
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Jaffa	lcuk: That's for the CO down, not the CO "up"	23:53
lcuk	just talking Jaffa, just assume that anyone that asks you would be trying to help you flesh out such a thing	23:53
Jaffa	lcuk: thanks	23:53
Jaffa	Bed time now, though ;-)	23:53
* lcuk nods		23:53
julienf	Jaffa: good night :)	23:53
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lol_	good niht	23:54
arfoll	adding meego1.2 repo on pub.build.meego.com makes a meego_trunk_standard repo. that's kinda ugly no? shouldn't it be calling it meego_1.2?	23:55
lbt	Jaffa: quick ping	23:59

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