IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2011-05-09

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alteregodD0T: nope, wont touch it,00:02
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dD0Talterego: Nice00:02
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pupnikStskeeps: hmm00:05
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* lbt mentions to Jaffa that the 2nd call for papers is out for sf201100:20
lbtmailing list from thiago  ... for MWN obviously00:20
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GAN900lbt, which list?00:35
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lbtmmm [MeeGo-dev] as it happens00:36
lbtodd00:36
lbtthiago_home: did you mean to cc other lists?00:36
GAN900lbt, noted. Thanks.00:37
* CosmoHill wonders how the hell he restarted the SSH demon without getting disconnected00:45
lbtGAN900: also... http://pininthemap.com/maemo seems to have gone ... as I mentioned (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=544291&postcount=101) it's a good idea not to rely on ad-hoc external services00:45
lbtanyhow ... -> bed00:46
CosmoHillnight ngiht00:46
Robot101CosmoHill: it forks for each connection00:46
alteregolbt: did you have any luck talking to the hotel?00:46
lbtalterego: yes00:46
lbtI called and they said they had a reservation and no issue with ccard00:47
alteregoWeird :D00:47
lbtI replied to the intel bod00:47
lbtyeah00:47
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sofarCosmoHill: restarting sshd doesn't close the session processes -> sshd forks one for each session00:49
CosmoHillthanks, I got it00:50
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thiago_homelbt: I just sent where I wanted to send.00:59
thiago_homelbt: but forwarding to other lists is appreciated00:59
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CosmoHillbye02:09
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akkOn an ExoPC is there a way from the cmdline to get the screen to turn on? I find it goes dark if I'm idle for 1 min or so06:04
akkand I can still ssh in, but I haven't found a way (besides rebooting) to get the screen responding again.06:04
berndhsakk: I think thats a new bug in 1.1.99.506:08
berndhsor whatever the lastest was from May 306:09
akkI'm still running the one that shipped on the tablet -- tried a week ago to download a new version but it wouldn't boot.06:09
akkIs there a build date that works well on the Exo?06:09
berndhsyes but I dont know which one06:09
berndhsi just noticed that it starts going dark after less than 1 minute in the latest release06:10
berndhswell not release, in the latest build06:10
berndhsnone of these are releases :)06:11
akkRight, point taken :)06:11
akkWell, I'll keep my ears open and see if anybody has luck with builds over the next week.06:11
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berndhssomeone filed a bug for this already06:12
berndhslooks like over-eager screen saver06:12
akkyeah ... though it might be nice to have a way to recover from a screensaver too, other than rebooting :)06:12
akklike, maybe, have it actually come back when I tap on the screen06:12
akkor hit the back/home button or something06:13
berndhsyeah it does kinda spoil things06:13
berndhsit comes back for me on netbook 2 or 3 times06:13
berndhsbut keeps getting darker06:13
akkOh, as long as I'm asking questions: is there any concept of sleep/suspend? All I've figured out how to do is power down, and boot again next time I want it.06:14
berndhsi dont know, i never tried it06:14
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npmakk: what happens if you boot with "nohpet" (wondering if it's same bug i'm seeing here: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17233 )06:54
MeeGoBotBug 17233 cri, Undecided, ---, yong.y.wang, NEW, Netbook display often broken after suspend, especially after starting legacy X programs (?)06:54
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akkI'll try it, npm ...07:02
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akkthough I don't think it's ever suspending, so based on the title I'm not sure it's the same issue as that bug.07:02
akkHow do you get meego to suspend?07:02
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ClippyClippy 4eva07:04
ClippyDid Nokier license Clippy as part of that deal?07:05
akkAnd how do I boot with "nohpet"? If I go into the boot screen I tried typing 'e' (as I'd do with grub) but that didn't do anything.07:05
Clippyakk, ask Clippy, he answers everything!07:06
berndhsakk: Tab usually07:06
akkClippy: How do I boot with "nohpet"?07:06
akkTab doesn't do anything either.07:06
berndhsClippy is a troll07:06
Clippydid you want to boot without a PEP... er PET?07:07
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ClippyIt seems you are trying to chroot your meego distribution.  Can I recommend Android instead?07:08
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ClippyCan Ishow meego to the Ovi?07:09
akkAh, looks like /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf is the only way to get new boot args in.07:11
berndhsyou may want to increase the timeout value07:12
berndhsi think that is in small units, like 100ms07:12
berndhsand perhaps comment out the "hidden" part07:13
akkThe timeout in extlinux.conf?07:13
berndhsyes it goes really fast07:13
berndhsdoesnt give you much of a chance to do anything07:13
akkI have timeout 1 now -- I could believe it's waiting about a sec with the button I have to press to get a boot menu.07:13
akkI'll change it to 3 and see.07:13
berndhsit is set for elegant production release booting :)07:14
akkChanging it to 3 definitely didn't make the BBS button (or whatever that says) stay on the screen longer.07:15
akk(I missed it, now I'm waiting for it to boot so I can power off and try again.)07:15
akkOh, I'm never getting the extlinux menu at all, just a menu of boot devices.07:17
berndhsmaybe thats a different menu07:17
berndhsthe exlinux menu looks a lot like the grub one07:17
berndhslist of kernels basically07:18
akkI have nothing in /boot/grub and a bunch of stuff in /boot/extlinux, so I presume it's using extlinux.07:18
berndhsyes it is extlinux07:18
akkso yeah, maybe it's showing me the menu for 3 milliseconds or something.07:18
berndhssomething like that07:18
berndhsor its still hidden07:19
akkbut anyway, I made the first entry be nohpet07:19
akkso let's see if it still goes black and won't come back07:19
berndhsworth a half-hearted attempt :)07:19
akkWhat is hpet, anyway?07:19
Clippy __07:20
Clippy/  \07:20
Clippy|  |07:20
Clippy@  @07:20
Clippy|| ||07:20
Clippy|| ||07:20
Clippy|\_/|07:20
Clippy\___/07:20
berndhshigh p-somehting timer07:20
akkokay, screen blanks at exactly 1 minute07:21
akknope, doesn't come back even with hpet07:21
berndhsnot the same problem apparently07:21
akkand once it's blanked, I can't ssh in any more, either07:21
berndhsah its worse07:22
akkthough if I already had an ssh shell, sometimes (not always) it's still alive.07:22
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akkI think it actually powers off07:22
berndhsor suspending or something in between07:22
akkbecause if I press the power button briefly, it doesn't power off (like it would if it was running) and if I hold it, it powers on and boots (which it wouldn't if it were already running)07:22
berndhsin my case on netbook it goes darker 2 or 3 times, then it stops07:23
akkand it doesn't shut down cleanly (it's doing its "sit forever at a blank screen with a blinking cursor" think which I take to mean fsck).07:23
Clippyfscking A!07:23
berndhsblank-hit key-darker-blank-hit hey-darker07:23
akkThis tablet doesn't do that, it just goes completely dark and unresponsive.07:24
berndhswhat build is it ?07:24
akkIs there a way to shut down cleanly from the UI, BTW? other than connect a keyboard or ssh and type poweroff?07:25
akkThis is whatever build came on the ExoPCs from App Nation.07:25
berndhsno07:25
berndhsopen a terminal and shutdown -h now07:25
akkI tried booting a newer build but it wouldn't boot.07:25
timophpress and hold hw power button07:25
ClippyDid you want to boot in compatibility mode?07:26
akktimoph: Just a short press powers down, holding doesn't seem to make any difference. But I wasn't clear if that synced the disks first.07:26
akk("disk", well, storage)07:26
timophit doesn't07:26
timophit just forces shutdown07:27
akkso there's really no clean way to either shut down or suspend from just the tablet itself. :(07:27
berndhsthe hardware power button forces a software shutdown07:27
akkMaybe they need developers to write scripts to do things like that more than they need whizzy gui apps. :)07:27
* timoph thinks that's a design flaw07:27
ClippyIt looks like oyu're struggling with an immature OS, would you like to have windows phone 7?07:27
akkThis channel clearly needs some ops.07:28
ClippyIt looks like you want ps, did you want to place a call to the firefighters association of Earth?07:28
berndhsits sunday night07:29
akkAnyway, enough for tonight ... more hacking tomorrow. Seeya, berndhs and timoph07:30
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timophmonday morning and on my way to work here :)07:30
Clippytake car akk07:30
berndhsi'm going to sleep07:30
berndhsbye everyone07:30
timopho/07:30
Clippynight bernd07:31
berndhsClippy go see a psychiatrist, its an emergency07:31
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Clippyhi mitsutaka, linux is hardly a miracle07:32
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Clippyhi07:34
iekkumorning07:36
StskeepsClippy: if you're here to troll, please leave07:36
Clippytop of the morn to ya07:36
iekkuStskeeps, nice start for a week07:37
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Termanamorning11:12
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ralienhello12:21
raliendoes anyone have problems with getaddrinfo() on meego?12:21
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ralienit returns loopback addresses with ai_addrconfig specified12:22
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lbtmaninc: keep an eye out for fabo14:23
lbthe's on #meego-arm a fair bit14:24
lbthe owns the MeeGo community KDE project14:24
maninclbt, ok14:24
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thiagohttp://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/09/thoughts-about-qt-5/15:18
Stskeepsneat15:23
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slainethiago: thanks for the link15:34
thiagolars will come to meegoconf and talk about it15:35
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slainethats great, except, I won't be there :(15:35
thiagostill time to come :-)15:35
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slaineno time off work unfortunately15:35
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slainebig release due for the end of May (when a release isn't big, I don't know)15:36
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Stskeepsmandating opengl es 2.0 in compliance also makes sense now15:38
slainethiago: quick question actually. I was asked a question over the weekend and I don't know enough about Qt to be able to answer it. Does Qt have a base level of libraries that you can link to for say a server/console based program, using Qt base classes etc. i.e. make an app that won't pull in a load of GUI code but still be able to use some of the base Qt classes and frameworks. I guess something along the lines of glib15:39
* thiago points out to the Wayland parts too15:39
TSCHAKeeei saw.15:40
TSCHAKeeethat makes me really happy15:40
thiagoslaine: QtCore and QtNetwork do not link to any UI libraries15:40
Stskeepsthiago: way ahead of the curve then, http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/wayland/20110430_001.jpg ;)15:41
* TSCHAKeee has written an app using qtcore15:41
slainecool, so yes. Thank thiago15:41
TSCHAKeeewhoa, wayland on n900? ;)15:41
thiagoslaine: :-)15:43
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thiagoStskeeps: :-) too15:43
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kcrootwhere i can found meego SDK in tar file?15:56
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kcrooti found only package version, but cant install on my gentoo :(15:57
alteregoslaine: any sane distro packages them seperately as well. So you only need QtCore and QtNetwork libs, just remember to assign your "QT = core network" variable in .pro15:57
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lbtdo we have any osc/obs tutorials for meego?15:59
Stskeepsthere's the wiki ones15:59
* lbt looks16:01
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alteregoThey're not great.16:02
alteregoI found this: http://wiki.meego.com/images/Meegokickoff.pdf16:03
alteregoQuite helpful though16:03
lbtalterego: yes, that's good16:04
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alteregoThere is quite a lot of obs/osc docs on the wiki, not particularly well organised and some are kind of confusing.16:05
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lbtalterego: agreed16:07
lbthmm16:08
lbtWhat about having a wiki room at SF201116:08
lbtprint out the wiki16:08
lbtreorganise it16:08
alteregoBit of a waste of paper? :P16:09
lbtstick it on the wall and categorise it16:09
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lbtalterego: nah16:09
alteregoBut sounds like a cool project we could do in the warm up16:09
lbtindeed16:09
lbtI was thinking warmup day16:09
lbtbut if we could get a room dedicated that may be useful for the entire event16:10
lbtdneary may be interested16:10
dneary?16:10
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dnearylbt, You have a half day with Niels, don't forget to prepare something for it16:10
* lbt is on it16:11
alteregoYeah, "Got a free period? Why not help organise the wiki" :)16:11
dnearylbt, There is the hacker room for follow-up stuff, and you have the "workshop" space where you can make some room too16:11
lbtalterego: indeed16:11
lbtso dneary I meant you to look at the "print out the wiki and stick it on the wall" idea16:11
dnearylbt, re wiki edit: Not sure it'll work in a conference setting, but definitely some kind of critical mass thing where people agree "yeah, that sucks", brainstorm how to make it better, and then go to town on it, could work16:12
lbtalthough clearly some refinement may be needed ;)16:12
lbtjust a visualisation of the mess and structure16:12
lbthaving a dedicated wiki room with things on the wall16:12
the-lightkcroot: I think meego not have tar file, i'm in archlinux use ubuntu .deb file and convert with ABS16:13
alteregolbt: would be cool if we could get a few projectors, and setup a touch interation :)16:13
Stskeepshow about a wiki QML gui and a giant touchscreen?16:13
Stskeeps:P16:13
clbri'd be part of this wiki room, sounds like a great idea16:13
* lbt will bring some wool, push-pins, paper and a printer as backup16:13
alteregoWe could use say 2 or 3 projects, projecting a continuous desktop along a wall, then use some wiimotes or something to allow for pen based interation on the wall.16:13
alteregos/projects/projectors16:13
lbtdneary: can I hand that concept to you ?16:14
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dnearylbt, Hand away16:14
dnearyIt's unlikely I'll do anything with it, though :)16:14
lbtcheers mate16:14
lbtmeh16:14
lbtwho will ?16:14
dnearyAfraid I'm up to my ears until the conference16:14
dnearylbt, Propose it on the wiki16:15
dnearyThe nearest thing we have to a wiki editor is Dawn16:15
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lbtmmm ... I have 3 talks and a half-day tutorial to prep16:15
dnearyI don't have time to volunteer for it16:15
lbtclbr: are you coming ?16:15
dnearys/"on the wiki"/"on the community mailing list"16:15
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I remember a conversation a while ago about batteries, was it decided that if you want to have a battery stored for a long period of time, fully charging it first is a good idea?16:16
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DocScrutinizerno16:16
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* alterego has had too many batteries go completely dead on him recently.16:16
lbt75% iirc16:16
DocScrutinizerrecommended charge is 50%16:16
alteregoOkay16:16
alteregoThanks16:16
DocScrutinizer75% also ok16:16
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DocScrutinizermost important thing however is to not store it discharged16:17
DocScrutinizerand check every 3 months16:18
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DocScrutinizercheck voltage, if U <2.5V ->discard16:19
alteregocripes, I've got like 8 Nokia CA-101 cables now16:19
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DocScrutinizero.O16:19
Stskeepsalterego: i always lose mine in weird places16:20
DocScrutinizeronly 4 here16:20
alteregoHeh16:20
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alteregoI'm very protective over my cables ^.^16:20
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alteregoI'd radiation tag them if I had the technology to track them ;)16:20
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alteregoflashing N900 when you already have one plugged in is kind of fun ..16:24
Stskeepslike russian roulette16:24
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alteregoWell, looks like I've done the right one ;)16:26
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Sagehttp://download.meego.com/live/home:/marko.saukko:/branches:/devel:/tools:/sdk:/host/17:11
Sageso that repository has the fix for madde-configurations17:12
Sageso after that installing meego-sdk-armv7hl should be possible and should work as expected17:12
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Sageveli: ^17:13
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velipeisanen: --^17:25
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VITAShi17:26
veliSage: hmm, we are on wrong channel.. :)17:26
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Sageveli: ...17:26
* Sage hides17:26
VITASis meego on the n900 usable on a regular basis or still only for testing?17:27
GAN900Testing.17:27
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VITASa shame17:28
VITAS:)17:28
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VITASwhen is an stable release to be expected?17:29
ali1234very soon17:29
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ali1234stable doesn't mean usable though17:29
VITASok then usable :D17:30
alteregoThat's up to you realy.17:30
alteregoWhat you class as being "usable" what your requirements are and also, if you want to help ;)17:30
alteregohttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/ReleaseProcess/Plan17:30
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VITAShmm phone,mail(exchange),calendar,...17:31
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alteregoWell, I don't think calendar is penned for DE17:31
alteregoThough we do have a calendar app17:31
Stskeepstablet one didn't look too bad17:31
VITASalso i heard that a frind got it working on some htc device17:31
alteregoI don't know if Exchange support is in MeeGo17:32
Stskeepsdoubt it17:32
ali1234srsly?17:32
ali1234GEEZ17:32
alteregoI thought evo had quite good exchange support?17:32
ali1234MfE is rather important for... oh... everyone17:32
alteregoNot me :P17:32
alteregoAnd you say everyone, but I don't think that is especially true for us hacker types ..17:33
ali1234well, how's the imap support looking?17:33
ali1234i guess i could use that instead17:33
ali1234i've never seen an imap client that doesn't choke on my gmail account though, not even on desktop17:33
alteregoI'd hope imap4 and pop3 are pretty well supported :)17:34
ali1234well yeah, i would too17:34
ali1234but experience tends to show otherwise17:34
alteregoThat and google use a dodgy imap implementation don't they?17:34
ali1234i dunno17:34
ali1234they use a dodgy MfE implementation that's not supported on maemo17:34
ware1You can find evolution-ews in some of the projects in obs like devel:enterprise, but it doesn't come in the default image releases.17:35
ali1234but it works fine on symbian17:35
alteregoOh, maybe it's MfE then17:35
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Stskeepsali1234: i'm slightly happier after i started striving for zero mails in inbox17:35
ali1234i even managed to sync caledar with it17:35
ali1234oh i do that too17:35
alteregoHah17:35
ali1234i get about 2 mails in inbox a week17:35
ali1234everything goes in folders17:35
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ali1234but the crappy imap client in maemo still tried to download all the folders every time i connected17:36
ali1234that's like 7 GB of mail17:36
alteregoI should set something like that ..17:36
alteregoup17:36
ali1234basically only important stuff goes in inbox17:36
ali1234and that's the only stuff i want to see on my phone17:37
ali1234don't want to see all the folder clutter, that can wait17:37
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alteregoI should have got screen protectors for my N900 from the get go. These are good.17:39
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ali1234ew17:40
ali1234my n900 has no scratches17:40
ali1234that's quality hardware for you, not like that htc stuff17:40
alteregoThe N900 ts is very scratch prone17:41
ali1234well..... not mine17:41
alterego(never give it to your women to put in her hand bag)17:41
slaineDid anything ever happen with the generic-x86 build btw ?17:42
ali1234i carried it around in pocket with keys for best part of a year17:42
ali1234no scratches, nothing17:42
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ali1234looks like new basically17:42
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lbtslaine: no... want to manage it ?17:42
alteregoI'm somewhat skeptical :P17:42
alteregoAre your keys plastic? :P17:42
slainelbt, if I had the time I'd have looked at it by now17:42
lbtexactly...17:43
slainelittle or no hobby time since meegoconf :(17:43
slainegetting really itchy to do stuff17:43
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N900_VcfCardshello..:)17:44
N900_VcfCardsHello people...:) i am trying to locate the VcfCards of my nokia900 through Xterm help ?17:45
gabrbeddslaine: is that the non-SSSE3 build?17:45
slainegabrbedd: yeah, that's it17:46
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slainebase it on i686 and sse2 instead17:47
N900_VcfCardsis this the channel for getting to know the n900 through command line...:)...?17:47
StskeepsN900_VcfCards: no :P17:47
Stskeepsslaine: get a obs and it's fairly trivial17:47
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N900_VcfCardsi just "wold" like to hit direct inside the drive, if i can modify the contacts17:48
N900_VcfCardsexport, amaylise, re-import17:48
N900_VcfCardsanalyse17:48
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slaineStskeeps: getting an obs was the issue, didn't work when I last tried it and didn't have the time to follow up on it17:48
Stskeepsslaine: i did ~20 lines of mods to toolchains and am building a armv6+vfp-hardfp meego build on a shitty machine17:48
N900_VcfCardsoops though you were answering17:48
N900_VcfCardsam out17:48
N900_VcfCards:)17:48
Stskeepstakes a week for arm17:48
Stskeeps:P17:48
slaineStskeeps: If i get some time I'll give you a poke17:49
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dnearyDawnFoster, Just got on the call19:22
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npmre: <alterego> We could use say 2 or 3 projects, projecting a continuous desktop along a wall, then use some wiimotes or something to allow for pen based interation on the wall. -- anybody doing this?? I got wiimote working nicely on my netbook http://nielsmayer.com/meego/wmgui-for-wiimote-and-nunchuk-via-bluetooth-on-meegolem.png19:23
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padovannpm: Proper wiimote support is GSoC project in BlueZ this year.19:27
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npmseems to be properly supported by using an external app -- wminput19:28
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npmaka, i can use it as a mouse, or remote control aleady19:29
npmon meego 1.219:30
npmtoo bad the lenovo s10-3t doesn't have hdmi out19:30
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npmbut then again it also would need crystalhd card too19:30
padovannpm: yes, there are some implementation, but if we move it to the kernel is a way better.19:32
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npmdefinitely... would be nice if it showed up in the bluetooth panel on the netbook too19:32
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npmhttp://abstrakraft.org/cwiid/ ends up bypassing all that in order to deal w/ the wii's weird pairing protocol19:33
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dm8tbrthe host of MeeGoBot will undergo some maintenance, we apologize for the inconvenience.19:42
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andyrossMight as well probe this generally: who here has a WeTab tablet (not an ExoPC)?  Can you send me the contents of /sys/class/dmi/id/modalias on it?20:45
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nedrichardsandyross: i have one somewhere in the office21:15
andyrossCool.  Bonus points if you can tell me if it exhibits the "boot hang" issue in bug 1716121:17
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17161 nor, Undecided, ---, andy.ross, NEW, Booting pauses for ~98 seconds21:17
nedrichardsandyross: will check when u find21:17
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lcukthiago, reading the thoughts on qt523:50
lcukhttp://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/09/thoughts-about-qt-5/23:50
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lcuklooks good indeed23:51
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lcukgabrbedd, the bugs you highlighted on friday are best fit on thursday triage23:53
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Stskeepslcuk: http://twitter.com/stskeeps/statuses/6769347994125926523:56
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lcukStskeeps, sure thing23:57
lcukgabrbedd is creating a device built atop of meego which has a specific purpose though23:58
Stskeepsa table's a able23:58
Stskeepstable23:58
Stskeeps:P23:58

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