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| npm | bleh: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11896#c1 "Nokia legal team did not agree to open source the package providing this functionality." | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| MeeGoBot | Bug 11896 maj, Undecided, 1.1.80.15, baris.boyvat, RESO REJECTED, [FEA] Google Authentication API | 00:16 |
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| ali1234 | what is google authentication api? | 00:17 |
| npm | http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/docs/AuthSub.html | 00:17 |
| ali1234 | sounds like it should be easy to reimplement | 00:17 |
| npm | http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/2.0/developers_guide_protocol.html#AuthSub_Authentication | 00:17 |
| npm | well it always sounds easy :-) | 00:18 |
| ali1234 | actually i don't understand why that is a good reason to close the bug | 00:18 |
| ali1234 | just because nokia doesn't want to release their existing code for this, means it's not a valid feature for someone else to implement from scratch? | 00:18 |
| npm | but there's the details of the implementation that are always tricky | 00:18 |
| npm | for example on maemo, sometimes you have to hand-type the oauth-code back from the browser into the app | 00:19 |
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| npm | and in better integrated situations, (e.g. webkit for the oauth handoff) you don't get access to your saved passwords in your main browser | 00:19 |
| npm | in either case, both cause an unusual amount of pain for normal users (not us) | 00:20 |
| delac | is there any way to check what is set as APN for 3g connection? I think everything elese works, but the carric-3g-wizard fails to set the settings. | 00:21 |
| npm | ali1234: feel free to put that comment in the bug. i agree | 00:21 |
| ali1234 | yeah but i don't understand why it cannot be implemented without some closed source code | 00:21 |
| ali1234 | feels like nokia is saying "we don't want to do this, so nobody should do it" | 00:22 |
| npm | that's even more peculiar. | 00:22 |
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| npm | maybe some dictate was given to stop contributing to android through linux and this code just found itself in the wrong place at the wrong time ( http://tech-buzz.net/2011/04/26/nokia-is-the-biggest-contributor-to-android-codebase-after-google/ ) | 00:30 |
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| ali1234 | more like dictate to stop contributing to anything open source | 00:31 |
| npm | yep. no more sipping and blinking. just drink the ms-coolaid | 00:32 |
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| espen77 | i might be blind, but i cant seem to find a place to register at bugs.meego.com | 00:50 |
| arfoll | espen77, register on meego.com accounts are for everything on meego | 00:50 |
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| espen77 | arfoll: ahh...ty :) | 00:51 |
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| smoku | ali1234, if you start thinking about bugs.meego.com as internal bugtracker that just happens to be publically visible, it makes perfect sense | 00:53 |
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| smoku | an internal request from one involved party to another was just formally rejected | 00:55 |
| npm | with open source there's not supposed to be an internal bugtracker | 00:55 |
| smoku | yeah. android is advertised as open source too | 00:55 |
| ali1234 | meego is constantly claimed to be "real open source, not like android" | 00:56 |
| smoku | and it did catch you, didn't it? :) | 00:56 |
| gabrbedd | npm: open source != open development | 00:56 |
| ali1234 | what do you mean? | 00:57 |
| ali1234 | i have yet to see any evidence that it is true | 00:57 |
| arfoll | can't we just settle for more open than android? | 00:57 |
| gabrbedd | However, open development > open source :-) | 00:57 |
| smoku | maemo community used to call it "open source for ivory towers" | 00:57 |
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| ali1234 | i disagree that open development is better than open code | 00:57 |
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| gabrbedd | open source: user has access to source code for the product that they received. | 00:58 |
| ali1234 | open development: user can read about why their bug will never be fixed and has no ability to fix it themself | 00:58 |
| gabrbedd | But open source doesn't mean that people can be involved in the development or that they have access to bug trackers or past releases or SCM... | 00:58 |
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| gabrbedd | But open development is where the internal development is exposed to encourage contributions and participation. | 01:00 |
| ali1234 | but it does neither | 01:00 |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: That can happen in any development model. | 01:00 |
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| ali1234 | it can't happen in the open source model (the one where you get the code and nothing else matters) | 01:00 |
| w00t_ | nokia wanted to include some of their currently closed code in meego, opened a feature for it, didn't get permission to open it, so the bug got closed - i'm really not seeing the controversy :p | 01:00 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: With open source... you can always fix it yourself (or pay for it)... but in neither model will get it merged up-stream. | 01:01 |
| * gabrbedd is assuming "open development" includes (is a superset of) "open source" | 01:01 | |
| gabrbedd | Open development without open source is.... something else. | 01:01 |
| ali1234 | open development without open source = the maemo way | 01:02 |
| ali1234 | "yes, every one come and contribute to maemo! no, you can;t have the source." | 01:02 |
| ali1234 | "but please help by reporting bugs, even though we will never fix them" | 01:03 |
| * gabrbedd dislikes Nokia a little more every day... | 01:03 | |
| smoku | ali1234, at least you had -devel packages and very good documentation, so you actually could develop against the closed components. you weren't allowed to change how the closed components work - true. | 01:03 |
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| ali1234 | and the android model is the exact opposite - the code is open, the development is not | 01:05 |
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| ali1234 | and personally i think that has worked out a lot better | 01:05 |
| julienf | hey guys, quick question: What's the latest N900 image that boots properly? | 01:05 |
| smoku | ali1234, show me the honeycomb source ;PPPP | 01:05 |
| ali1234 | julienf: the one at the top of this page: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 01:06 |
| arfoll | we're still stuck with non free components for a while even in intel land | 01:06 |
| * arfoll stares blindly at emgd | 01:06 | |
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| gabrbedd | ali1234: I think Qt did well with closed devel / open source, too. | 01:07 |
| gabrbedd | ali1234: And I think Qt is the model of good open source / open devel -- which they're also doing very well. | 01:07 |
| npm | arfoll: what specific nonfree components in intel land? codecs? or drivers? | 01:08 |
| julienf | found itfound | 01:08 |
| arfoll | npm, gfx drivers | 01:08 |
| arfoll | and the situation is not looking any better with medfield/oaktrail | 01:08 |
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| arfoll | actually i'm not sure what oaktrail gfx is exactly | 01:09 |
| ojdon | Hi everyone. | 01:09 |
| arfoll | npm, i don't see codecs as a big deal, hobbyists can use gst-ffmpeg and rebuild -bad/-ugly and device vendors will have to work out the hard part | 01:10 |
| npm | arfoll: or use http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem | 01:11 |
| npm | :-) | 01:11 |
| arfoll | npm, my thoughts on that page are on the ML ;-) | 01:11 |
| npm | indeed the GMA950 seems to be problematic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/657976 | 01:12 |
| ojdon | Does anyone use Midori on Meego? Struggling to install it. =\ | 01:12 |
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| npm | might also be causing https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12687 | 01:12 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 12687 nor, Medium, ---, robert, REOP, [REG]sometimes It will wait for a long time before Terminal launcded | 01:12 |
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| npm | arfoll: my thoughts: why should individuals be compiling complex packages when they can just pick them up from one of the most widely used, best curated repositories around. | 01:14 |
| npm | esp. when people start packaging themselves, you get bugs like this: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 | 01:14 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, hao.h.li, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds | 01:14 |
| npm | and a nobody (other than me) banging on it hard enough to find the bugs | 01:15 |
| npm | so i | 01:15 |
| npm | i prefer a really large user community to be vetting the software packages i run. | 01:15 |
| arfoll | npm, using packages from another distro is not a good idea IMO | 01:15 |
| npm | esp. when they're basically an open portal to owning your machine | 01:15 |
| npm | you use packages from other distros all the time | 01:15 |
| npm | skupe | 01:15 |
| npm | skype | 01:15 |
| npm | java | 01:16 |
| npm | flahs | 01:16 |
| npm | flash | 01:16 |
| npm | etc. | 01:16 |
| arfoll | npm, only skype i believe | 01:16 |
| npm | google-chrome | 01:16 |
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| npm | google-talk | 01:16 |
| arfoll | and that's because I have to. it's much easier to rebuild on community OBS | 01:16 |
| npm | they're all RPMs for fedora | 01:16 |
| npm | so it's nonsense to say using packages from other distros is a bad idea | 01:17 |
| npm | it's a bug when meego can't support packages from other distros | 01:17 |
| npm | e.g. https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 | 01:17 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, hao.h.li, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds | 01:17 |
| ali1234 | i don't understand how you reach that conclusion | 01:17 |
| npm | oops https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14117 | 01:17 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14117 nor, Undecided, ---, yan.yin, VERI FIXED, Skype application can be installed, but with error | 01:17 |
| ali1234 | if you install enough fedora packages, you'll be running fedora, not meego | 01:17 |
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| npm | not true | 01:18 |
| arfoll | i disagree, there are a few packages that it's handy to share | 01:18 |
| npm | i'm running meego. with fedora (rpmfusion) apps | 01:18 |
| npm | i setup the repositories to prefer meego | 01:18 |
| npm | so fedora stuff only gets picked up if missing | 01:18 |
| arfoll | eg, skype, java, chrome because they are closed source. but this should be a real minimum and only closed src apps need that kinda stuff | 01:18 |
| ali1234 | and there is no guarantee that this will work, and why would there be? | 01:18 |
| arfoll | these rpmfusion packages are not tested at all on meego | 01:19 |
| npm | beyond closed, source, i'd rather be using the developers build for fedora directly, rather than waiting for someone to port it to meego | 01:19 |
| npm | this all assumes using ia32 of course | 01:19 |
| npm | and OBS and packaging for meego on other archs is absolutely necessary | 01:19 |
| ali1234 | i don't understand why you think this is any less crazy that installing debian unstable packages on ubuntu | 01:19 |
| ali1234 | if anything it's worse since meego is no longer even downstream of fedora | 01:20 |
| arfoll | that's fine if you want to but it shouldn't be on the wiki nor supported behaviour | 01:20 |
| npm | what is "supported behavior" .... | 01:20 |
| npm | sounds like something Sony would come up with | 01:20 |
| npm | and we know how that went. | 01:20 |
| ali1234 | supported behaviour = your bug reports won't get instantly closed for doing this | 01:20 |
| arfoll | npm, you said it's a bug when a fedora package didn't work... i say it's not | 01:21 |
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| npm | please explain https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14117 | 01:21 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 14117 nor, Undecided, ---, yan.yin, VERI FIXED, Skype application can be installed, but with error | 01:21 |
| auke | skype is special | 01:21 |
| arfoll | npm, that's because skype havent yet been cohersed to do a special build for meego | 01:21 |
| auke | there is no meego skype package so you have to use something else | 01:21 |
| auke | which is why I approved that bug | 01:22 |
| auke | any package from fedora.org -> not so | 01:22 |
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| npm | nobody will be convinced to do a special build for meego. they might be paid to do it. but when you go to google, do you see "meego" listed in http://www.google.com/chat/video/download.html | 01:23 |
| npm | and why would google want to support meego? | 01:23 |
| npm | no you see 32 bit RPM for Suse/Fedora and it happens to work perfectly installed on meego. | 01:23 |
| arfoll | npm, so install it and enjoy if it works, if it doesn't it's not a bug | 01:24 |
| ojdon | Yeah I'm using it right now. So it's I can confirm it working perfectly. | 01:24 |
| arfoll | that's like saying look i can use a 300V PSU on my computer and it works! wait now it doesn't, i'm going to complain to the manufacturer | 01:25 |
| npm | but, for example in meego 1.0, it required two libs to relink before working. meego 1.0 users thus didn't get it working. how is that not a bug? | 01:25 |
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| npm | there's a certain amount of compatibility epxected when you call something linux -- why deviation from that standard not be a bug? | 01:25 |
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| auke | officially, skype is not supported either | 01:25 |
| w00t_ | there is no standard of compatibility expected | 01:26 |
| auke | not from a fc15 rpm anyway | 01:26 |
| ali1234 | npm: you think "compatible with fedora rpms" is a requirement to call it "linux"? seriously? wat? | 01:26 |
| auke | but, we do make an effort to get some unsupported stuff "to work" | 01:26 |
| arfoll | dont think so, i don't expect an fc15 rpms to work on my arch linux box | 01:26 |
| auke | "work" does not imply "supported" | 01:26 |
| npm | does archlinux use RPMs? | 01:26 |
| ali1234 | i don't even expect it to work let alone be supported :) | 01:26 |
| arfoll | no, but it's linux | 01:26 |
| ali1234 | npm: does opensuse accept bug reports against fc15 rpms? | 01:27 |
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| npm | why would they? | 01:27 |
| ali1234 | well apparently it's not linux if they don't | 01:27 |
| arfoll | that implied compatibility you are on about? | 01:28 |
| npm | is RPM based versus ubuntu based | 01:28 |
| npm | are the two defacto standards | 01:28 |
| ali1234 | lolno | 01:28 |
| npm | and of course .tar.gz binary distibutions | 01:28 |
| arfoll | oh dear | 01:28 |
| npm | that's what you find on the internet. it's what ought to be supported or what's the poing of being linux? | 01:29 |
| npm | s/point | 01:29 |
| * arfoll is out | 01:29 | |
| smoku | npm, "linux" is the kernel you can download from kernel.org. the other thingies you call "linux" is just posix-like operating systems built on top of that kernel using publically available components | 01:31 |
| ali1234 | you seem to be implying that all rpm based distributions must provide support for installing fedora-compatible rpms (ie rpms built with fedora toolchain and packaging tools) and all deb based distros must provide same support for ubuntu debs | 01:31 |
| smoku | npm, the thing is, libraries they build upon do not keep ABI compatibility between versions. so if you can get a binary built for one of these operating systems to run on another system - lucky you. but you cannot expect it to work. | 01:32 |
| npm | and IMHO, given that people build their binaries for fedora, it would be a bad idea to let meego become incompatible with fedora | 01:33 |
| ali1234 | then it wouldn't be meego, it would be fedora | 01:33 |
| npm | or you lose out on having some important closed apps, and latest vesions of hard to package open apps. | 01:33 |
| smoku | BTW, this is the largest complaint of vendors entering linux world from other, more stable OSes. "what?! you do not keep ABI backwards compatible??!" | 01:34 |
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| npm | actually, the incompatibilities are trivial | 01:34 |
| npm | fedora14 uses readline6 and python 2.7 | 01:34 |
| npm | meego 1.2 uses readline5 and python 2.6 | 01:34 |
| smoku | exactly. so you know exactly where the main problem is. | 01:35 |
| w00t_ | in that case, it may be trivial, in others.. less so | 01:35 |
| npm | i've already live through one balkanization of unix (Openlook/Motif) and I don't think we need any more... | 01:35 |
| npm | (was in Motif camp). | 01:35 |
| w00t_ | if you want to prevent the balkanization of unix, I think you already missed that boat :-) | 01:36 |
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| npm | well MeeGo doesn't need to forcibly continue it. | 01:36 |
| npm | for example it's close enough on the RPM front that you can happily use a lot of stuff | 01:37 |
| w00t_ | nobody said anything about forcing it | 01:37 |
| w00t_ | nobody is stopping you from doing what you want to do | 01:37 |
| npm | and that should be touted as a feature | 01:37 |
| npm | arfoll seems to want to stop me | 01:37 |
| smoku | npm, why don't you just run fedora on your metal, instead of pushing fedora packages to meego installation? | 01:37 |
| w00t_ | no? | 01:37 |
| npm | because fedora is bloated and slow on the netbook | 01:38 |
| npm | meego is fast and has some cool features | 01:38 |
| w00t_ | and it's precisely that reason why meego is not targetting fedora compatibility | 01:38 |
| npm | why can't i have best of both worlds ( i do) | 01:38 |
| npm | but it is already compatible per my experience w/ http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem | 01:39 |
| w00t_ | in the case of out of date dependencies, btw, you realise that, generally speaking, distros stop updating things before a freeze for sanity reasons, right? | 01:39 |
| w00t_ | ...and that 1.2 is actually planning on releasing relatively soon... | 01:39 |
| espen77 | you can setup fedore with as few packages installed as you want....importing bloat into meego will make it bloated | 01:39 |
| smoku | for me the correct way of having other distros rpms (i have a lot of opensuse rpms installed) is through rpmbuild and proper install, not hacking my system to give some illusion of ABI compatibility :) | 01:40 |
| npm | espen77: i'm running meego kernel and OS. there is no imported bloat | 01:40 |
| npm | the difference is that if I want to try out some cool app i run on my desktop, instead of gong "yum install" I do "zypper in" on meego. | 01:41 |
| npm | and i don't need to go wasting time looking for someone's one-off build | 01:41 |
| npm | when i can use apps that are used/tested by thousands | 01:41 |
| smoku | what's the difference to installing srpm and building it for your system? | 01:42 |
| smoku | this is exactly te same package | 01:42 |
| smoku | but built properly for meego | 01:42 |
| npm | maybe that makes sense for trivial packages | 01:43 |
| npm | as an exercise, please bring up the openshot video editor on meego. | 01:43 |
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| smoku | oh. so you're just lazy :) | 01:44 |
| npm | i'll talk to you in a few days. ... I just zypper installed it from rpmfusion and ran it within minutes. | 01:44 |
| npm | no i have better things to do | 01:44 |
| npm | so the issue is not packaging trivial little programs. | 01:45 |
| npm | it's packaging these goliaths of dependencies like firefox4, of openshot, or xbmc | 01:45 |
| smoku | i have abiword and gnumeric installed together with all the dependencies from opensuse srpms | 01:45 |
| npm | and then trusting that those packages have been packaged so as to not expose security holes | 01:46 |
| smoku | and it was not such time consuming as you are trying to present it | 01:46 |
| npm | (such as the lack of sandboxing in meego's chromium-browser) | 01:46 |
| npm | true, if you grab someone's srpms it's can be easy. | 01:46 |
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| smoku | so it is | 01:47 |
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| npm | except when there's a dependency list of 20 other hard to compile painful packages | 01:47 |
| npm | which is often the case w/ multimedia | 01:47 |
| smoku | almost as easy as grabbing someone elses rpms | 01:47 |
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| espen77 | npm: you still do them one by one | 01:47 |
| npm | yep, i think it would be a good idea to have an OBS scraper just grab everything from OpenSuse and Fedora and RPMFusion and build em all | 01:48 |
| npm | then let people try em out and 'vote' on the results | 01:48 |
| ojdon | Grrrr | 01:50 |
| espen77 | npm: you are assuming that everything use the same toolchain | 01:50 |
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| smoku | that's a way better idea than advocating installing other distros binary packages :) | 01:50 |
| ojdon | I need another browser that supports Google Talk Plugin as well. Also mouse gestures like finger scrolling... =\ | 01:50 |
| ojdon | Midori is such a pain to install on Meego. | 01:50 |
| arfoll | isn't zigbee a human scrapper? | 01:50 |
| smoku | arfoll, isn't the whole moblin project such scraper? :> | 01:51 |
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| arfoll | smoku, was. | 01:52 |
| arfoll | anyways i dont think mass building everythign off opensuse is a bad idea. | 01:52 |
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| smoku | BTW, you can already find a lot of cool stuff in community obs | 01:53 |
| npm | ojdon: i'm using http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem-Firefox4 and it works fine w/ google talk plugin and has proper sandboxing and http://grabanddrag.mozdev.org/index.html give scrolling | 01:53 |
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| ojdon | I'll give it a go then sometime. :) Thanks for the suggestion. | 01:54 |
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| smoku | we just need software.opensuse.org like interface | 01:54 |
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| npm | of course, that's FF4 from the REMI Fedora repository... clearly a nono | 01:55 |
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| npm | even though he's been reliably packaging stuff for fedora for years | 01:55 |
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| ojdon | Oh? | 01:55 |
| arfoll | and the guy clearly tests everything for meego too | 01:56 |
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| npm | arfoll. meego doesn't test stuff for meego, otherwise i wouldn't have found https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 | 01:56 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, hao.h.li, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds | 01:56 |
| npm | what's needed isn't testing, which is basically a waste of time... what's needed is zillions of users | 01:57 |
| arfoll | npm, and remi has zillions of users? doubtfull | 01:57 |
| npm | he has enough | 01:57 |
| npm | when Fedora 15 is released and FF4 is officially packaged there, i'll upgrade to that version. | 01:58 |
| arfoll | anyways i remember the mess of when i had a rhel workstation at work and installed packages from left and right, always caused a mess | 01:58 |
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| npm | i've been running fedora/redhat for over a decade, never been a mess for me. | 01:59 |
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| smoku | and meego with installed 3/4 of fedora as dependencies is clearly not as bloated as real fedora installation :) | 01:59 |
| arfoll | especially when you'll end up with two different versions of the same lib just with different package names on the same system... | 02:00 |
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| npm | well it seems to run about half as many interrupts per secondf as fedora 15 | 02:00 |
| npm | and uses less memory | 02:00 |
| arfoll | file a bug in fedora bugzilla? | 02:00 |
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| npm | i just ran it for long enough to decide I was happy with meego | 02:01 |
| npm | although i like the gnome shell | 02:01 |
| smoku | npm, have you tried smeegol? | 02:02 |
| npm | no | 02:02 |
| smoku | it's opensuse running meego netbook interface | 02:02 |
| smoku | i didn't see any speed difference to meego on my netbook | 02:02 |
| npm | i actually want meego on here, i just also want all the other libs and progs i'm used to as a fedora desktop user | 02:03 |
| npm | try running powertop for one | 02:03 |
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| npm | that would be a good starting comparison for mobility... | 02:04 |
| smoku | sorry. do your comparisons yourself ;-) | 02:04 |
| smoku | i'm just suggesting options :) | 02:05 |
| npm | i'm pretty happy w/ meego 1.2 netbook actually | 02:05 |
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| smoku | and I'm with cordia ;-) | 02:06 |
| npm | interesting... that sounds like it would be good on a netbook/tablet | 02:08 |
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| espen77 | the garage application just closes again when i open it. tailf .xsession-errors give the the following: FreeType: couldn't find encoding 'iso8859-13' for '/usr/share/fonts/cjkuni-fonts/ukai.ttc' | 02:42 |
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| * GeneralAntilles chuckles at The Register Nokia memo. | 05:35 | |
| GeneralAntilles | What an absolute mess Nokia has made of itself over the last few years. | 05:36 |
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| TSCHAKeee | GeneralAntilles: memo? | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/ | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hope they go down in flames. | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | They don't deserve to keep trying to compete. | 05:37 |
| * GeneralAntilles notes the Lightning are about to go to the semi-finals. | 05:38 | |
| TSCHAKeee | sigh | 05:38 |
| TSCHAKeee | the media still think that Nokia == MeeGo | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mmm | 05:38 |
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| TSCHAKeee | this is almost like Commodore | 05:39 |
| TSCHAKeee | all over again. | 05:39 |
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| newjor | hello,have someone been used webCam on meego-netbook? | 05:40 |
| berndhs | might actually be good for MeeGo it its not dominated by Nokia | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, without them things don't look particularly positive. | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | berndhs: I could see that, but the negative press really hurts. | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the lost time | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not being in place in the cellular arena hurts, too. | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Frankly, I'd say tablets are a stop-gap. | 05:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | (Woo, Go Bolts!) | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | . . . | 05:42 |
| newjor | hello,have someone used webCam on meego-netbook? | 05:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Declined sponsorship. | 05:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's special. | 05:42 |
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| newjor | hello,have someone used webCam on meego-netbook? | 05:47 |
| berndhs | i tried it, but I forget if it worked :) | 05:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles tries to decide whether to couch surf of forget about the trip. | 05:49 | |
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| berndhs | ah be adventurous, take a tent and sleep in the park | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mmm, too cold. | 05:51 |
| berndhs | SF in late May? should be fine with a decent sleeping bag | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | berndhs: depends on where you grew up. :P | 05:52 |
| berndhs | it will be wayyy above freeying | 05:52 |
| newjor | berndhs: i used my webcam which of chip is zc301,unfortunately,can't find /dev/video | 05:52 |
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| newjor | i guess there don't support for v4l on meego now? | 05:54 |
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| gabrbedd | du -sh /tmp | 06:11 |
| gabrbedd | 4.9G /tmp | 06:11 |
| gabrbedd | wauw | 06:11 |
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| berndhs | it cant be important, its in /tmp | 06:13 |
| sofar | gabrbedd: send me a list of files in there so I can fix tmpwatch :) | 06:15 |
| sofar | btw, most webcams work | 06:16 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: pretty simple... corewatcher.* | 06:16 |
| sofar | if a specific one doesn't work, please list the device model/lspci etc and open a bugreport | 06:17 |
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| gabrbedd | and corewatcher/* | 06:17 |
| sofar | gabrbedd: install corewatcher pls | 06:17 |
| sofar | :P | 06:17 |
| sofar | http://crashdb.meego.com/ <- starting to look very pro | 06:17 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: already installed. Isn't that the problem? :-) | 06:18 |
| sofar | it's not submitting then | 06:18 |
| sofar | check /etc/corewatcher.conf and set it to 'yes' instead of 'ask' | 06:18 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: submitting what to where? Is there a guide to corewatcher somewhere? | 06:18 |
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| sofar | the conf should list a URL already preprogrammed to submit to crashdb.meego.com | 06:18 |
| sofar | it'll upload the backtraces to crashdb | 06:19 |
| sofar | it also removes the core dumps once processed, keeping your /tmp clean | 06:20 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: ok... that answers a lot. I'll set it to yes. | 06:20 |
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| sofar | if you really care, get the latest version in trunk | 06:21 |
| gabrbedd | sofar: ...but I've heard a lot of reports of corewatcher filling up peoples hard drives. (IDK if you're in a position of influence on that) :-) | 06:21 |
| sofar | and install -debuginfo packages etc... | 06:21 |
| * gabrbedd is currently `zypper up` with the daily build. | 06:21 | |
| gabrbedd | about half done. | 06:21 |
| sofar | I'm the person who originally made corewatcher "work" in meego | 06:21 |
| sofar | now I manage the poor developers in charge of fixing it :) | 06:22 |
| sofar | <- auke | 06:22 |
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| gabrbedd | sneaky bastard. | 06:22 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 06:22 |
| sofar | let's just say... my fingers are on a lot of things in meego :) | 06:23 |
| gabrbedd | I meant the 'sofar' nick. :-) | 06:23 |
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| sofar | you don't like my irc handle? :) | 06:24 |
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| gabrbedd | Sure, it's great (now that my DNS has been updated) | 06:25 |
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| gabrbedd | sofar: BTW, I think corewatcher is a Good Thing. Thanks. :-) | 06:33 |
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| newjor | sofar: could you tell me how to use webCam on Meego? i have a usb webCam,but i don't know how to use it. | 06:34 |
| gabrbedd | newjor: Which meego are you using? | 06:35 |
| newjor | netbook | 06:36 |
| gabrbedd | newjor: Usually, I just plug in the webcam... then fire up the 'webcam' app (a.k.a. cheese) and it just works. | 06:37 |
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| newjor | gabrbedd: you mean there have installed cheese app on meego? and ,what chip in you webcam | 06:39 |
| gabrbedd | newjor: Yes, the Netbook has 'cheese' installed by default. Go to your apps, it's in the "Internet" section and it's called "webcam" | 06:40 |
| gabrbedd | newjor: As for the chip... dunno. Never had to check. | 06:40 |
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| newjor | gabrbedd: can cheese be used to capture picture? i want to do the capture job? | 06:42 |
| gabrbedd | newjor: yes | 06:43 |
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| newjor | gabrbedd: oops,i can't find the cheese in the internet section, the release of my Meego-netbook is 1.1. so,what's the release of yours? | 06:49 |
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| gabrbedd | newjor: 1.1 | 06:53 |
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| newjor | gabrbedd:ok,thanks | 06:56 |
| Cherrot | http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=150553 Is somebody knows why my QEMU looks like this? I have tried many languages... | 06:58 |
| Cherrot | http://imagebin.org/150553 | 06:59 |
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| Cherrot | Is somebody knows why my QEMU looks like this? I have tried many languages... | 07:07 |
| Cherrot | http://imagebin.org/150553 | 07:07 |
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| eg81 | Cherrot: intresting... which qemu image are you using? | 07:32 |
| Cherrot | eg81: meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime | 07:33 |
| Cherrot | eg81: I use Ubuntu10.10 . | 07:33 |
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| eg81 | have you tried to remove this runtime (mad remove) and recreate new (mad-admin create -e -f runtime) ? | 07:42 |
| Cherrot | eg81: Not yet. I'll try it now! | 07:43 |
| Cherrot | eg81: mad-admin remove? | 07:44 |
| eg81 | sudo mad-admin remove meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime | 07:45 |
| eg81 | sudo mad-admin create -e -f meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime | 07:46 |
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| eg81 | mad remote -r meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime poweron -fg | 07:46 |
| Cherrot | What does "-fg" mean ? | 07:47 |
| Cherrot | foreground .. :-) | 07:48 |
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| Cherrot | eg81: It works!! Thank you very much! Can you tell me why it can work? | 07:51 |
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| eg81 | hard to answer... | 07:52 |
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| Cherrot | eg81: :-) Thank you so much! | 07:55 |
| eg81 | :) | 07:58 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Hey, all! Any idea how to set up an ad-hoc wireless network on the latest nightly build for tablets? I went to settings, but if it can't see the network, I don't see any UI for creating a new one. | 08:49 |
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| dm8tbr | _|Nix|_: wild guess, look into connman how to do it manually or on the cmd-line | 08:55 |
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| timeless | good morning (ugt) | 09:30 |
| timeless | did i miss anything at all exciting? | 09:30 |
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| timeless | hi thiago | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: nah, nothing new | 09:34 |
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| thiago_home | hey timeless | 09:37 |
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| TheLegace | hi everyone | 10:20 |
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| Stskeeps | hi | 10:20 |
| TheLegace | has anyone here tried getting MeeGo emulator through qt creator in linux? | 10:20 |
| TheLegace | well even the windows one | 10:21 |
| eg81 | I tried to do that and it works for me :) except that you can't stop emulator from qt-creator (there is a known issue) | 10:23 |
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| TheLegace | hmm guess thinking i could run it through my atom netbook | 10:26 |
| TheLegace | was a bad idea | 10:26 |
| TheLegace | its the only 32-bit windows i have in the house | 10:26 |
| TheLegace | and it finally crashes | 10:28 |
| TheLegace | well now that i see it works ill have a reason to format my system | 10:28 |
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| eg81 | TheLegace: you can put MeeGo on usb stick then boot and use is as a live system | 10:33 |
| TheLegace | i tried alread | 10:33 |
| TheLegace | but theres no mouse cursor | 10:33 |
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| TheLegace | so it makes it difficult to get the xterm | 10:34 |
| TheLegace | just to make that gconf setting | 10:34 |
| TheLegace | the other option is just to build the image | 10:34 |
| TheLegace | but i think im gonna go that path | 10:34 |
| TheLegace | since i cant get tablet sdk installed | 10:34 |
| TheLegace | which is seriously buggin me | 10:34 |
| TheLegace | on linux | 10:34 |
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| TheLegace | failed: Execution failed (Unexpected exit code: 1): | 10:35 |
| TheLegace | i keep getting that error when instaled the tablet image | 10:35 |
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| TheLegace | maybe ill post up bug since i cant seem to see reproduced anywhere else | 10:37 |
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| bkalinga | Hi All, | 10:56 |
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| bkalinga | I created a qemu target with trunk-1.1.99.4.20110426.4 for handset, that booted fine yesterday | 10:56 |
| bkalinga | but today when i try to boot it; it is not booting ,and remaining in black screen for hours | 10:56 |
| bkalinga | I checked ps list...nothing related to theme server, dui, is there | 10:57 |
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| bkalinga | while checking in /var/log/messages and Xorg.0.log, i found some GConf related error | 10:57 |
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| bkalinga | GLIB CRITICAL ** Tracker - Could not connect to the D-Bus session bus, Error connecting: Connection refused | 10:58 |
| bkalinga | x11wrap.c: XOpenDisplay() failed | 10:58 |
| bkalinga | /etc/init.d/messagebus status gives messagebus (pid 143) is running... | 10:58 |
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| bkalinga | can someone help me to find what has gone wrong | 10:58 |
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| bkalinga | sudo zypper info meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard for "trunk-1.1.99.4.20110426.4" runtime gives | 11:39 |
| bkalinga | Installed: No Status: not installed | 11:39 |
| bkalinga | whether it will be part of 1.2? | 11:39 |
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| mikhas | I sure hope so :-) | 11:43 |
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| bkalinga | mikhas: If i manually install it using zypper then qemu is booting with a black screen and freezes there | 11:45 |
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| mikhas | perhaps a compositing issue | 11:46 |
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| mikhas | you might have to adjust the startup parameters in the meego-im-uiserver's .desktop file | 11:46 |
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| bkalinga | what must be params any pointer | 11:48 |
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| mikhas | I would first try with "-software -bypass-wm-hint" | 11:49 |
| mikhas | (assuming you dont run mcompositor) | 11:49 |
| mikhas | well, do you run any compositor at all? | 11:49 |
| bkalinga | i m sorry mikhas, i really dont know what is the purpose of this compositor, i think i wont run (not sure) | 11:50 |
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| bkalinga | mikhas: i am getting logs like this "Process mcompositor (pid: 702," | 11:53 |
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| bkalinga | its PID changes frequently means, crashes immediately it spawned | 11:54 |
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| mikhas | bkalinga, oopsie | 11:55 |
| bkalinga | i think in someother's desktop file also i need to change this param | 11:56 |
| bkalinga | Exec=/usr/bin/meegotouchhome -remote-theme | 11:56 |
| bkalinga | is this OK or i need to change the param here also | 11:56 |
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| lcuk | \o/ jarpalo ftw | 12:10 |
| lcuk | for submitting a patch to bug 14958 | 12:11 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14958 maj, Medium, 1.1.99.0, michael.leibowitz, NEW, [Trunk:Daily] Unable to change wrong wifi password input. | 12:11 |
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| lcuk | mikhas, how is maliit coming along now? did the css themes get put into different packages, or are they still being modified? | 12:21 |
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| mikhas | lcuk, there is a separate style package for the N900 apparently | 12:25 |
| mikhas | lcuk, we need to rethink our whole package structure for 1.3 ... | 12:26 |
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| lcuk | mikhas, yeah it would be better for it to be packaged together | 12:31 |
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| tcs-meego | Hi there.. do i need to add something on the .pro or do a #include something to use the OPENGL ES 1.1 API for meego ? | 13:57 |
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| lcuk | tcs-meego, hmm, unsure | 14:02 |
| lcuk | what is the Qt project running currently? | 14:02 |
| tcs-meego | lcuk.. i am trying to compile the opengl demo hellogl | 14:03 |
| tcs-meego | in the .pro I added QT ++ opengl | 14:03 |
| tcs-meego | QT += opengl. But on running, i get a libEGL error | 14:03 |
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| tcs-meego | I checked that some of the code uses opengl ES APIs ... like glVertexPointer and stuff.. so was wondering if i forgot to do something in the .pro file | 14:04 |
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| cityLights | how can I read #meego-dev? why am I banned - I have nver been there | 14:08 |
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| lcuk | meego-dev was redirected, ask your question here | 14:08 |
| cityLights | where is the evolution-ews channel | 14:09 |
| cityLights | ? | 14:09 |
| cityLights | for meego | 14:09 |
| lcuk | cityLights, well who works on evolution-ews? | 14:11 |
| cityLights | no idea | 14:11 |
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| cityLights | I seek Yanli http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Yanli | 14:14 |
| cityLights | ~seen Yanli | 14:14 |
| infobot | yanli <~YanLi@helpconfig.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 394d 4h 41m ago, saying: 'Stskeeps, sorry, i'm not sure, i don't know too much about ks file'. | 14:14 |
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| lbt | now that's clock skew! | 14:15 |
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| tcs-meego | does neone know fo a small example code for meego using OpenGL ES? | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | tcs-meego: www.daimi.au.dk/c | 14:25 |
| tcs-meego | thanks stskeeps | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | tcs-meego: www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/glestest.cc | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | i mean | 14:25 |
| achipa | lbt: no, clock skew is when you discover that six days from yesterday is actually on May 18th | 14:25 |
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| tcs-meego | Stskeeps.. but this is not Qt | 14:26 |
| lbt | :O | 14:26 |
| tcs-meego | sorry I was wrong... i was looking for something that was a Qt app | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 14:26 |
| Venemo | good morning :) | 14:27 |
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| achipa | lbt: though that's bureaucracy clock which got between me and the meegoconf | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | visa? | 14:28 |
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| achipa | Stskeeps: or, in my case, the lack thereof | 14:31 |
| X-Fade | achipa: No ESTA for you? | 14:31 |
| achipa | Entertainment Services and Technology Association (ESTA) is a live entertainment industry organization. | 14:32 |
| achipa | I guess not that one | 14:32 |
| w00t_ | achipa: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ | 14:32 |
| achipa | failed attempt at humor there | 14:33 |
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| achipa | yes, but no, I'm from one of those crazy european countries that don't get to be on that list | 14:33 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Hmm so you need to go through the whole interview thing? | 14:34 |
| achipa | should have, yes, but already ran out of time | 14:34 |
| achipa | as apparently it takes about a month to get through the process | 14:34 |
| achipa | the http://serbia.usembassy.gov/niv-apply.html jazz | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Did you call the embassy? | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | achipa: in .fi? | 14:34 |
| achipa | (still haven't decided if the video is more funny or more insulting) | 14:35 |
| achipa | X-Fade: yes, .fi is worse, apparently they don't get much traffic, so it seems Serbia is the quicker option (the irony) | 14:35 |
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| X-Fade | achipa: Hmm that sucks. | 14:36 |
| achipa | X-Fade: and yes, I did contact them and they very politely said 'too bad' | 14:36 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Ah, a friend of mine got an interview in 2 weeks there or so. | 14:36 |
| achipa | The Serbian jewel must be that you have to pay 10$ to get a PIN to able to CALL them to make the appointment | 14:38 |
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| bkalinga | MDebug: is part of which package? | 14:51 |
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| bkalinga | its part of meegotouch but why do I get error when use it, fatal error: MDebug: No such file or directory | 14:54 |
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| hhurtta | bkalinga: does your meegotouch application compile otherwise? | 15:00 |
| hhurtta | without MDebug | 15:00 |
| bkalinga | yes | 15:00 |
| hhurtta | hmm | 15:00 |
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| hhurtta | do you have the file /usr/include/meegotouch/MDebug (and mdebug.h)? | 15:02 |
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| bkalinga | yes | 15:03 |
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| bkalinga | hhurtta: i think i have missed some LIB due to that its not picking | 15:05 |
| bkalinga | in .pro file | 15:05 |
| bkalinga | i ll try to solve it | 15:05 |
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| cityLights | does anyone know where to find Yanli ? | 15:28 |
| Umeaboy | Hi! | 15:31 |
| cityLights | ? | 15:31 |
| Umeaboy | The intel_agp module is missing in the installation-sequence. | 15:31 |
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| Cherrot | How to install a rpm package into MeeGo QEMU ? | 15:32 |
| Cherrot | I want to install a package of IVE to my netbook MeeGo runtime | 15:33 |
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| lcuk | Cherrot, the same way you do in other places | 15:38 |
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| lcuk | zypper in [package] | 15:38 |
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| Cherrot | lcuk: Thank you. My QEMU may have some errors , I try to fix it first | 15:44 |
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| lcuk | Cherrot, hope it goes smoothly \o | 15:50 |
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| Cherrot | lcuk: :-) | 15:51 |
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| chouchoune | is there a problem with Meego.com for you ? | 16:19 |
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| gabrbedd | chouchoune: no | 16:28 |
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| chouchoune | ok, might come from my company's internet access then | 16:31 |
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| gabrbedd | chouchoune: Possibly. There was a DNS issue yesterday. | 16:32 |
| piggz | is there a virtualbox image that contains all the development tools for meego, similar to the one i use for maemo? | 16:32 |
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| Myrtti | meh | 18:35 |
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| pixelgeek | What's up Myrtti? | 18:36 |
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| rpgdude | hey i want to try out meego on my n900, how should i setup so that i can multiboot between maemo and meego? | 19:04 |
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| eg81 | rpgdude: do you have mmc card? you can install meego on it | 19:14 |
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| eg81 | using istructions from here wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 19:16 |
| lcuk | rpgdude, first time is easier with the instructions there ^ | 19:17 |
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| rpgdude | yeah i have a 16 gb blank mmxc | 19:20 |
| rpgdude | *mmc | 19:20 |
| rpgdude | i also want to have nitdroid on it, so should i install nitdroid first, or meego first? | 19:20 |
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| eg81 | personaly I've never tried this combination maemo+meego+android, you can try :) | 19:22 |
| rpgdude | yeah i was gonna give it a shot | 19:23 |
| V3rtig0_ | Anyone know what to do if the flasher doesn't find my phone when trying to load the kernel to it? | 19:23 |
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| andre__ | V3rtig0_, which OS? | 19:24 |
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| V3rtig0_ | W7 | 19:25 |
| rpgdude | it looks like the .raw file contains a partition table | 19:25 |
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| lcuk | V3rtig0_, I generally turn off the device, remove battery, plug into usb, start the flasher so it says "waiting for device" then inserting the battery and watching the magic happen. | 19:25 |
| rpgdude | how you i install the rootfs without corrupting my existing partition table? | 19:25 |
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| V3rtig0_ | hm okay lcuk, I'll try that. I've only had the device turned off, and then put the USB in, but not without battery first. | 19:27 |
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| eg81 | as 8 remember plug usb only after you will run flasher, no need to remove battery | 19:30 |
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| lcuk | eg81, I like the simplicity of the way I deal with flashing, it ensures the device is in a consistent state. | 19:34 |
| * lcuk still has aching arms from bringing the cot upstairs | 19:35 | |
| eg81 | :) if thinking from that perspective then I agree | 19:35 |
| lcuk | it is a lovely pine one from john lewis and we had to break it down reassemble it to get it through the door | 19:36 |
| * lcuk stood three holding heavy cot on his own until family came to help :) | 19:36 | |
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| rpgdude | can i maybe mount the raw image and copy the files manually to my own partitions? | 19:40 |
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| lcuk | \o lardman | 19:43 |
| ali1234 | rpgdude: you can use the ks file with mic to build a tarball of the root filesystem | 19:43 |
| ali1234 | no idea how though | 19:43 |
| rpgdude | hm | 19:43 |
| rpgdude | it looks like i can use the instructions on the NFS wiki page | 19:44 |
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| ali1234 | my stupid computer keeps dropping back to usb 1 | 19:44 |
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| lardman | hi lcuk | 19:54 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: was the LCS meego day recorded, out of curiousity? | 20:03 |
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| fiferboy | Hey lardman! | 20:15 |
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| fiferboy | Sorry there has been no progress on the item database app :/ | 20:15 |
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| ejones2 | is this the correct place to ask lbt to enalbe the obs build access for ejones2? I have community access, but it does not allow me to work with the kernel. | 20:30 |
| arfoll | ejones2, you have to file a bug on bugzilla for that, lbt only does community OBS | 20:32 |
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| ejones2 | oh ok. Unless I am missing something? I really just want a local copy of the source code so i can single step debug kernel.... Is that do able without the obs build account? | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | you can work with anything that's on build.meego.com on community obs | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | they're linked | 20:34 |
| arfoll | you just need the src rpm for that | 20:34 |
| * lbt sits back | 20:34 | |
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| ejones2 | thanks stskeeps, can you point me to any docs/wiki that has the steps to do this type of debug? The target i have with Meego is NOT good for doing the debug, so i am trying to do the debug work on an Ubuntu host. Problem is, without the source code, it isnt very informative. | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | ejones2: ok, ARM or x8? | 20:37 |
| ali1234 | remote gdb? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | 6 | 20:37 |
| lardman | hey fiferboy | 20:38 |
| lardman | no worries, I've not really had any time to even use my N900 lately | 20:38 |
| ejones2 | stskeeps, it is x86 (mrst) | 20:38 |
| lardman | fiferboy: how's the family? | 20:38 |
| lardman | lcuk: likewise how's your family? | 20:38 |
| ejones2 | ali1234, could do remote gdb but was using the embedded debugger (uses JTAG device).... Honestly, whatever is documented/esiest I can work with, i am not set on a particular ide | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | ejones2: osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com checkout MeeGo.com:Trunk kernel-adaptation-mrst (or what the name was) | 20:39 |
| ali1234 | well, JTAG is a type of remote GDB afaik | 20:40 |
| arfoll | ali1234, i think he means JTAG as in a serial console | 20:40 |
| ali1234 | lolwat | 20:40 |
| fiferboy | lardman: They're good. Oldest just turned 5 this week | 20:40 |
| ejones2 | stskeeps, well the osc - MeeGo:1.1:Core kernel-mrst was what I tried to get to, but it seems that package does not exist in the community obs | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:41 |
| arfoll | grab the rpm from the repo on the official OBS | 20:41 |
| ejones2 | stskeeps, The target I am working on will not boot with the latest greatest kernel (due to si changes) | 20:41 |
| lardman | fiferboy: cool :) | 20:42 |
| ali1234 | ejones2: what are you using for jtag access? some hardware device? | 20:42 |
| ali1234 | or just a cheap parallel port thing? | 20:42 |
| ali1234 | (or not so cheap parallel port thing) | 20:42 |
| ejones2 | ali1234, using ITP XDB | 20:43 |
| lcuk | lardman, doing good I think, Jacob was out playing football in full superman costume earlier, cape and everything. | 20:43 |
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| ejones2 | Ok so if i run the rpm command on the rpm in the official repo, that will not try to update files on my ubuntu machine (ie will keep the files in the subdir) so i can point the debugger there? | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | ejones2: no idea then sorry | 20:44 |
| lardman | lcuk: good stuff, might as well enjoy the weather while it lasts! :) | 20:45 |
| lcuk | the wedding is tomorrow | 20:45 |
| * lcuk should find out if there will be a party | 20:45 | |
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| lardman | I fear I will be at work, so much to do before the end of next week :( | 20:45 |
| lardman | but at least that way I won't have to watch the ceremony (though good luck to them both) :) | 20:46 |
| lcuk | heh | 20:46 |
| * lcuk going to Heaton park on sunday :) | 20:46 | |
| ejones2 | stskeeps & ali1234: thanks for trying to help me out. it doesnt sound like this is *easy* to do, it doesnt appear that there are many people doing the kernel development work and needing to debug.... | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | oh plenty of that | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | but most people just use serial i guess | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | i've never really found a good reason to do step debugging | 20:47 |
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| lardman | lcuk: anyone you know been affected by the Nokia UK layoffs? | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | but then i mostly potter around with device drivers, not core stuff | 20:47 |
| lardman | probably old news by now, but I've not had much time to be online recently | 20:47 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: I am willing to go that route, just not familiar with it.... any guidance? | 20:47 |
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| Nav_ | Meego is awesome | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | ejones2: just fill your code with lots of printk() | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | Nav_: meego, the zombie operating system! | 20:47 |
| Nav_ | Hope everyone working on it is doing great and having fun | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | then watch the kernel output on serial port | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 20:47 |
| lcuk | lardman, not sure, been digging around in wiki for much of the day | 20:48 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: Aah I understand now. | 20:48 |
| ali1234 | all you need is minicom or hyperterminal or whatever | 20:48 |
| Nav_ | I'm trying to get it to run on an omap processor | 20:48 |
| Nav_ | I attended the vanet IEEE conference | 20:48 |
| Nav_ | car computing is interesting | 20:48 |
| ali1234 | it's not a glamorous way to debug but it works and is easy | 20:48 |
| Nav_ | meego is right on track | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | Nav_: we already have it on N900, a omap3 :) | 20:49 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: yes i have that Null modem / serial port setup | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | of course i rarely have the luxury of a real development environment | 20:49 |
| Nav_ | speaking of N900's | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | the only time i have used jtag i had to figure out the connector and make my own cable | 20:49 |
| Nav_ | I met the guy from Nokia that does the algorithms for the towers that Nokia uses for communication networks | 20:50 |
| Nav_ | really awesome guy | 20:50 |
| Nav_ | very fast | 20:50 |
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| Nav_ | and intersting | 20:50 |
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| ejones2 | ali1234: sorry to hear you have to do most debug with printk, although effective, seems a bit dated.... was hoping to get some other tools working... | 20:50 |
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| ali1234 | ejones2: well it sounds like you have the stepping part working... al you need to do is figure out how to feed the source code to the debugger so it can show the code position, yeah? | 20:51 |
| Nav_ | right now I have meego running on a shuttle pc | 20:51 |
| Nav_ | and it is running great | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | ejones2: might be able to use 'debuginfo' package, if one is generated | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | that contains sources | 20:52 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: I *think* that is the case. It appears to step. | 20:52 |
| ali1234 | heh... jtag isn't the most reliable protocol | 20:52 |
| ejones2 | stskeeps: is that debuginfo package availalbe on the repo sources? | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | ejones2: yes, afaik | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | in debug/ | 20:53 |
| ejones2 | Ok will give that a try! | 20:53 |
| ali1234 | ejones2: both the OBS are publicly readable and you can download anything you see on it | 20:53 |
| Nav_ | has meego full support for ion and non-intel processors as of yet?? | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | (anonymously) | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | you just can't have commit access on the core one | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | Nav_: SSSE3 is a requirement, ion you need to build Xorg with xinerama for, but otherwise works, afaik | 20:54 |
| Nav_ | I've been working on 3D graphics, data structures, and algorithms and gpu processing for advanced UI's | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | and well, ARM | 20:54 |
| Nav_ | oh cool! | 20:54 |
| Nav_ | I knew about the xinerama | 20:54 |
| Nav_ | if thats all that needs to be done thats great | 20:54 |
| ejones2 | ali1234, the OBS is not very intuitive to me, i have had a heck of a time getting anything off of it (ok ** confession ** Ive not successfully gotten anything out of OBS) | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | sure, OBS is confusing as hell | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | i totally agree | 20:55 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: Oh thank goodness someone else agrees! I dont feel like such a heel now | 20:55 |
| Nav_ | brb | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | OBS is designed for building whole distributions, not exactly a simple task, so it requires complex tools | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | if you want to debug the kernel i'd guess you'll be wanting to build it yourself too? | 20:57 |
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| Nav_ | I really like the choice of using the clutter wrapper around the openGL, really smart | 20:57 |
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| Nav_ | wasn't so great for the virtual environment, but hey, trade offs eh | 20:58 |
| Nav_ | hehe | 20:58 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: yes, eventually, but I am trying to tackle this in small chunks.... Get the existing meego 1.1 'debugable', then buildable, then add customizations | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | ejones2: i would tackle building first | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | this is because the things you need to debug are generated when you build | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | so you won't have to hunt for them | 20:59 |
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| ejones2 | ali1234: Good point. So do you reccomend building the meego 1.1 image (kernel + fs) on my dev machine or on the OBS? | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | no | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | you only need to build the kernel | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | assuming that's what you want to debug | 21:00 |
| ali1234 | there's no need to rebuild the whole image each time you builda new kernel | 21:00 |
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| ali1234 | so thing to figure out number 2 should be how to swap out the existing installed kernel for your own built one | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | this depends on how your board works but if it is x86 it should be simple | 21:01 |
| ejones2 | yes, that is what I want..... So just get the kernel to rebuild on my machine but get source from OBS | 21:01 |
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| ali1234 | well as stated you just take the source rpm | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | you don't really get it from OBS, you just get it from meego repository | 21:02 |
| ejones2 | Ok, I am with you. | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | if for some reason you wanted the absolute latest kernel version in meego you could take it from OBS | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | but for 1.1 that probably won't be necessary | 21:03 |
| ejones2 | based on some articles online, i should be able to package the newly built kernel into an rpm and then with usb stick bring over to the meego system. | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | yes that's one way to do it | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | quite involved though | 21:03 |
| ejones2 | you have an easier reccomendation? | 21:03 |
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| ali1234 | well, easier no | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | but more streamlined yes | 21:04 |
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| ali1234 | i like to boot dev board using PXE and NFS root filesystem | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | then i can just drop in any binaries i want at any time on the dev machine | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | just reboot board to get new kernel | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | much faster way to develop | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | but it's harder to set up | 21:05 |
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| ali1234 | you can of course just install the kernel and modules by hand if you are familiar with that stuff, that would also be quicker than building a whole RPM | 21:06 |
| ejones2 | ali1234: Ok, will keep that in mind. Maybe its another step to add to the list for the future. the current platform doesnt have traditional bios, so PXE is probably not an option right now.... | 21:06 |
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| ejones2 | BTW, YOU GUYS ROCK!!! thanks for the detailed help :) Hopefully this is what I need to get on the right track. | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | just remember to help when you see someone else needing help as well, or better yet, document on wiki | 21:08 |
| ejones2 | By GUYS I mean girls/guys not gender specific :) same as y'all | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | that would be humans | 21:09 |
| ejones2 | stskeeps: I have been updating the wiki here and there... once i get this process all hashed out, i will see where the missing steps are. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | unless you want to include other life forms | 21:09 |
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| ali1234 | people, unless you want to sound like a generic star trek alien | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | $ENTITIES | 21:09 |
| RST38h | "suckers" will probably also do the trick | 21:09 |
| RST38h | at least semantically | 21:10 |
| * dm8tbr starts handing out ipv6 addresses to everyone so he can address them better | 21:10 | |
| Jaffa | If only you could remember them | 21:10 |
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| dm8tbr | it's "just" 128bits! | 21:11 |
| ali1234 | ejones2: so yeah... basically you need debug symbols that match your built kernel anyway, so you may as well get that part done first | 21:11 |
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| ali1234 | perhaps there is a git repo somewhere with all meego patches applied and a handy tag for 1.1, if so that is probably going to be the easiest thing to work with | 21:13 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: not afaik | 21:13 |
| ali1234 | if not you want to get the srpm and just do the prep stage to get all the patches applied | 21:13 |
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| ali1234 | "meego 1.2 developer edition" :) | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | nice splash screen :) | 21:16 |
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| ali1234 | ...and then a black screen | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | ah... oh | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that transition doesn't go too well | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | first bootup is always slow | 21:19 |
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| Stskeeps | when you let it settle, it's better | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | hmm it rotates 3 ways | 21:20 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: meego day wasn't recorded, unfortunately - we just have the presentations availbale | 21:20 |
| w00t___ | yes, some stupid idiots seem to think that letting it rotate to reverse portrait would confuse the poor ickle users | 21:20 |
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| ali1234 | how strange | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | why reverse landscape but not reverse portrait??? | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: alright - slides look interesting for sure | 21:21 |
| w00t___ | ali1234: I did say it was stupid | 21:21 |
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| ali1234 | "navigator sucks do you want to close it?" | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | yes, yes i do | 21:24 |
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| ali1234 | why can't i just type a url? it will only let me search? | 21:27 |
| ali1234 | also, arrow keys don't work | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | they don't? | 21:27 |
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| ali1234 | yes, they don't | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | please write down your findings in a .txt or better yet, as bugs | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | first-time user walkthroughs are valuable for us, so | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | is there a some way to report bugs against DE in a generic way so they can be triaged? | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | cos i have no idea what components i am using | 21:29 |
| lcuk | ali, at present I have been using the handset categories and prefixing bug report with [n900 de] | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | actually maybe the enter key isn't working either and that's why i can only search. hmm | 21:31 |
| lcuk | which build are you using? | 21:32 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps mentioned this morning that it was not booting today but that hopefully it will tomorrow | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | i'm using the alpha as instructed on the wiki | 21:33 |
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| Stskeeps | alpha release is good for bug reports, yes | 21:33 |
| lcuk | ali1234, link to the wiki page you are reading from? | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 21:34 |
| * lcuk will have a go at flashing and booting | 21:34 | |
| ali1234 | i keep seeing that "xxx sucks" message but it disappears before i can interact with it | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | evening MeeGoExperts \o | 21:39 |
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| Myrtti | *burp* | 21:42 |
| Myrtti | tom kha gai ♥ | 21:42 |
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| ali1234 | what is "peregrine p..." | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | a communicator | 21:53 |
| ali1234 | instant messenging? | 21:54 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:56 |
| ali1234 | ah the keyboard bug with fennec is reported | 21:56 |
| iekku | yep | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | yeah arrows and enter work in xterm | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | will add a note saying arrow keys also don't work to that bug since i don't think anyone mentioned it | 21:58 |
| iekku | ali1234, good idea | 21:58 |
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| arfoll | npm, if you check my xbmc builds on home:arfoll they support the crystalhd decoder | 22:06 |
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| arfoll | and i think the stuttering in playback of youtube stuff in playbin2 is innadequate buffering, XBMC probably does more | 22:08 |
| arfoll | and crystalhd has a gstreamer element called bcmdec that is on the wetab for example | 22:08 |
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| npm | arfoll: thanks i'll take a look . first i'd need to get some appropriate hardware. now that i tried playing back some HD content stored on my DLNA share, it appears necessary :-) | 22:12 |
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| npm | glad to hear xbmc will be the basis of meegotv as well... having worked on inferior dvr platforms, dreaming of being able to use some proper open source instead of directv crapware | 22:14 |
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| arfoll | npm, glad you are exited about it, legal isn't ;-) | 22:15 |
| npm | yeah, i've been wondering about that | 22:15 |
| npm | thought perhaps that had been worked through | 22:16 |
| ali1234 | looks like all the bugs i foundwere reported already :) | 22:16 |
| arfoll | npm, have a look tmrw and they will all be | 22:16 |
| * arfoll cowers away from baseball bats surrounding him | 22:17 | |
| npm | there's a reason why the full-featured xbmc isn't on fedora but rather hosted by fedora's rpmfusion repo | 22:17 |
| arfoll | npm, This xbmc package will currently only work full on it's intended sodaville platform, so it's really MeeGo TV only | 22:18 |
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| npm | i'll be happy to accept any extra hardware you have :-) is that a CE4100? | 22:19 |
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| arfoll | npm, yes it's ce4100, as for extra hardware you're barking up the wrong student ;-) | 22:20 |
| arfoll | i've actually fried my spare ce4100 just last week | 22:20 |
| npm | well i cracked my n900 screen so we're even :-( | 22:21 |
| arfoll | ehehe did you also stare at it blankly praying for it to boot for 30 minutes? | 22:21 |
| npm | there needs to be a new word in english for the stupidity-induced loss of prized hardware | 22:22 |
| lcuk | npm eep, where on the screen is it cracked? | 22:22 |
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| arfoll | ehehe maybe but i'm claiming mine as bad luck with flash | 22:22 |
| arfoll | stupid NOR flash seems to have died half way through the flashing process | 22:22 |
| npm | lcuk: on LHS, right betweeen where the front camera and sensor are.. started as small crack and then spread. | 22:23 |
| npm | i was thinking last week i should take care of the "white blob" issue on display under warranty | 22:23 |
| arfoll | will warranty take care of a cracked screen? | 22:24 |
| npm | depends on whether walking into a couch in my mouse with the phone in my pocket is considered normal use | 22:25 |
| npm | s/mouse/house | 22:25 |
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| lcuk | s/moose/loose | 22:27 |
| npm | i guess i should hurry up and figure out what do do with it as i wanted to run n900DE at the meego conf | 22:27 |
| lcuk | for the meego fi summit I suggested/enquired if any hackers were around who might be able to do little repairs whilst people are there | 22:28 |
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| lcuk | like the loose usb plug resoldering/fixing | 22:28 |
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| npm | that would be cool. i saw some warnings about stuck mini-screws in replacing the display | 22:29 |
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| npm | if it was normal sized electronics i'd be all in. but this newfangled stuff is too delicate and i'd just break it more | 22:30 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, is there really no way to get to the task switcher with tablet ux on the n900? | 22:59 |
| TomaszD | I've started one app and can't get out of it | 22:59 |
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| Stskeeps | TomaszD: camera button | 22:59 |
| TomaszD | hmm, some inaccurate notes in the wiki then | 23:00 |
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| TomaszD | was supposed to be the ctrl button | 23:00 |
| TomaszD | thanks | 23:00 |
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| TomaszD | wow, some of this stuff works really well | 23:01 |
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| iekku | what are you using | 23:02 |
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| TomaszD | mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance-1.1.99.4.20110425.7.DE.2011-04-27.1 | 23:03 |
| TomaszD | Stskeeps, although I'm really at a loss as to what to choose, I picked that one at random | 23:04 |
| TomaszD | there are 1.2.0.0 builds too | 23:04 |
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| TomaszD | and sanity, acceptance, etc. | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we try to mark some as 'alpha' 'beta', etc | 23:04 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, why are there 1.1.99 builds and 1.2 builds? which ones to pick? | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | because someone messed up at meego.com side re numbers when we postponed release 3 weeks ;) | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | TomaszD, OneDotTwo :P | 23:07 |
| TomaszD | ok so I should choose 1.2 then | 23:07 |
| TomaszD | ? | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | no | 23:07 |
| TomaszD | no? | 23:07 |
| TomaszD | hmm | 23:07 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Comms of the delay was pretty shabby, I think. I don't remember seeing a big announcement on meego-*; just a footnote within yet another thread with an incorrect subject. | 23:15 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: it was on meego-releases@ | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | not that i totally disagree with the comms issue | 23:16 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Ah. Because the actual *date* of a release is only something of concern to the people managing it, not the people working towards it ;-) | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | but hey, compared to 1.0, this is an improvement :) | 23:19 |
| Jaffa | This is the problem with over-siloing of mailing lists in _this_ project. You either follow them all and get too much; or follow the ones you are primarily interested in and don't get "big" news. | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | i really wouldn't mind a proper weekly newsletter | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps: eh? | 23:21 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: ...and I wouldn't mind people submitting stuff | 23:21 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: :-p | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yeah, proper was hinted on that we have facilities but they aren't being use | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | d | 23:22 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: /me bets at least 90% of MWKN is self-sourced, with then about 50:50 fleshed out between him & GeneralAntilles | 23:22 |
| * Jaffa sucks at drumming up support | 23:23 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: not enough incentive. | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't generate karma, money or recognition. | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: sounds like a good LBN proposal | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: True | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: "LBN"? | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | We should probably have a field for "submitted by" and "summarized by" | 23:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'd help. | 23:24 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: timsamoff's redesigned CSS would make that easier. | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | ok, bit brain damaged.. LBN, you know, late breaking news, the thing we open two weeks before conference to fill in remainder of slots | 23:24 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'll try and find time this weekend to properly work on the infrastructure. | 23:24 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Have submissions go straight into a DB including submitter | 23:24 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Have a self-hosted EtherPad being continually updated | 23:25 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Seems like a quicker win than what crashanddie and I had originally planned | 23:25 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Ah, I see. | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: that might also make it easier for you and me to hint at who's writing the summary. ;) | 23:25 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Some kind of "what do you want MWKN to be, how do you want it to work" BoF... | 23:27 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: :-) | 23:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa: did we ever got a final result on that name change poll? | 23:27 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: "MWKN Weekly News" is my conclusion. Still like dneary's tagline of "We go meekly" (which may turn out to be true if you & I drift away from M[ae]e[mG]o stuff over the next 12 months | 23:29 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/04/meego-de-that-is-how-you-do-it.html | 23:30 |
| Jaffa | For stats, unique visitors to mwkn.net has been ~7,500 per month for the first three months of this year | 23:30 |
| * lbt blows own trumpet for mkwn :) | 23:30 | |
| Jaffa | lbt: indeed :) | 23:30 |
| lbt | Jaffa: maybe talk to DawnFoster and qg<tab-fail> | 23:31 |
| Jaffa | Interesting. Bandwidth consumed was ~7GB and there were 170,000 hits. | 23:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Seems like a lot of bandwidth. | 23:33 |
| lbt | wonder if mwkn.meego.com should redirect | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, looks like two IPs are doing most of it. | 23:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, clearly it should. *g* | 23:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some bloggers might argue that'd be unfair. | 23:34 |
| lbt | should you change the name to Meaeemgoo Weekly News | 23:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Us taking away their livings and all. | 23:34 |
| lbt | aw | 23:34 |
| Jaffa | Someone in Sweden has an RSS client which is refreshing the feed every 5 minutes. | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo *WEEKLY* News . . . | 23:35 |
| lbt | special rss message just for them ? | 23:35 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Indeed, thinking of doing that. | 23:35 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Will sort it tomorrow. | 23:35 |
| lbt | "Aliens have been spotted using N900s with MeeGo 1.3 ..." | 23:36 |
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| Jaffa | Given that c-eea3e655.205-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se and omfg.fbnet.org have both done over 2GB this month to date, and the next IP in the top 10 host has used 1MB... | 23:36 |
| lbt | goddam users | 23:36 |
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| Jaffa | Both are fetching the RSS feed every 5 minutes. FFS. | 23:38 |
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| lardman | Jaffa: re mailing lists, I quite agree, far too spread out | 23:56 |
| lardman | and I looked at the meego.com website frontpage for the first time in some weeks and the last news on there is more than a month old | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I don't mind it as long as the big stuff is cross-posted. | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Someone got shouted at for cross-posting the call for papers (IIRC) beyond meego-events. | 23:57 |
| lardman | would be useful for some of it to be collated for those of us who don't have an immediate reason to try reading them all | 23:57 |
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| lardman | hmm, well that's a bit silly really imho | 23:57 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: +1 | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps' of some kind of weekly digest could catch on ;-) | 23:58 |
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