IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-03-22

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lcuk	hi DawnFoster MeeGoExperts \o	00:12
MeeGoExperts	HI !!!!!!!	00:12
MeeGoExperts	How goes it ?	00:12
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lcuk	MeeGoExperts, tired today, stinker of a headache earlier	00:14
MeeGoExperts	:-(	00:14
vgrade	lcuk, too much Guiness at the meetup	00:14
* andre__ hands over a beer to lcuk against the headache		00:14
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lcuk	vgrade, nahh it was sleeping with window closed	00:15
MeeGoExperts	Guiness, you don't know what guiness is (Dublin) …… ahhhh	00:15
lcuk	i only had a couple of pints	00:15
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lcuk	what is the cool fruit chopping game on n8?	00:15
MeeGoExperts	fruit ninja	00:15
* lcuk likes it		00:16
MeeGoExperts	never played it	00:16
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lcuk	tis simple and effective :)	00:16
lcuk	vgrade, which devices do you have which are directly wall mountable?	00:17
vgrade	MeeGoExperts, you guys need better cameras or some stage lighting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WskpLfYci8	00:18
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nicky`	so is meego going to die	00:20
vgrade	lcuk, you would need some sort of mounting for the vega tablet, Joggler forget it unless you want to take a couple of bricks out	00:21
lcuk	vgrade, joggler is ok for a mantlepiece	00:22
MeeGoExperts	@vgrade, yeah just saw a bit of that video …. shocking … Lol	00:22
MeeGoExperts	@nicky, Not if i've got anything to do with it :-)	00:22
vgrade	lcuk, best bet would be a large lcd mounted on wall with tiny pandaboard behind	00:22
vgrade	MeeGoExperts, I blame the cameraman!	00:22
berndhs	you can try to hide from the NSA liek that, but it won't work	00:23
MeeGoExperts	No cameraman was fine as he was seriously good looking :-)	00:23
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vgrade	MeeGoExperts, you get my C4100 doc?	00:25
MeeGoExperts	Yep	00:25
MeeGoExperts	Did I forget to reply ? Sorry. Sent on :-)	00:25
lcuk	vgrade, hmm I wonder whether one of the allinone multitouch pcs would have the TV mounting brackets	00:25
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* lcuk still wonders how to ensure handset on handsets is fully catered for		00:30
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* timeless_w7ip sighs		00:32
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timeless_w7ip	git is annoyin	00:32
timeless_w7ip	why do people insist on not having a default/master?	00:32
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, which repositories have you found where they don't?	00:33
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: um... working on that	00:33
lcuk	and was this what I mentioned earlier?	00:33
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lcuk	errr few days ago	00:33
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lcuk	about integrating from side branches	00:33
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vgrade	MeeGoExperts, care to copy me in?	00:33
timeless_w7ip	omap3isp-rx51	00:34
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timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/omap3isp-rx51/	00:37
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, so which branch is it using?	00:37
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timeless_w7ip	i don't think it has any named branches..	00:38
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lcuk	that is special	00:38
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* timeless_w7ip tries to figure it out		00:41
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, what is the repostitory url	00:42
timeless_w7ip	i'm having trouble figuring that out actually	00:42
timeless_w7ip	:(	00:42
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timeless_w7ip	my guess is that it's http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/omap3isp-rx51	00:44
timeless_w7ip	since that'd be about right	00:44
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timeless_w7ip	it would be possible for me to check out with the extra directory, but i'm asserting that doing so is a huge waste of effort	00:45
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timeless_w7ip	it makes updating much more expensive since i have to do recursive hunts for repos	00:45
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, heh	00:46
lcuk	the master branch of that was last updated by linux torvalds ;)	00:47
timeless_w7ip	consider that there are 300+ roots in that tree	00:47
timeless_w7ip	and that it's likely there are dozens upon dozens of directories	00:47
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timeless_w7ip	so hunting recursively for roots would be tantamount to suicide	00:47
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lcuk	and Len Brown, Ingo Molnar, Eric Anholt are time travellers	00:48
timeless_w7ip	hrm	00:48
timeless_w7ip	yeah there are a bunch of time travellers	00:49
timeless_w7ip	i actually sent a patch to hg to support time travellers	00:49
lcuk	but both branches appear to have data	00:49
lcuk	and files	00:49
lcuk	so how come mxr has blank contents?	00:49
timeless_w7ip	i did a force update on all roots trying to get it to pick master's	00:50
timeless_w7ip	which doesn't work if there isn't a master	00:50
timeless_w7ip	http://selenic.com/pipermail/mercurial-devel/2011-March/029056.html	00:50
lcuk	heh	00:51
* lcuk wonders how to cure the master problem		00:51
lcuk	it would seem it is a bit harder than a 20 man quest in WoW	00:51
timeless_w7ip	i think something fell over wrt that root, the hgrc was missing	00:51
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timeless_w7ip	joy	00:52
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, well it is a git repository so a hgrc would not be expected?	00:52
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: upstream is a git repository	00:53
timeless_w7ip	dealing w/ git directly is too complicated for my tiny exhausted little mind	00:53
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lcuk	:( timeless_w7ip	00:56
lcuk	:O slashdot given mod points again	00:56
lcuk	LiquidCoooled (634315) Prefs	00:56
lcuk	Karma: Excellent	00:56
lcuk	5 moderator points	00:56
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* lcuk has not had mod points in a while		00:56
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CosmoHill	what are mod points?	00:58
vgrade	lcuk, http://android.modaco.com/content/entries-3-unexpected-uses-of-the-vega/334044/the-ultimate-kitchen-utensil/	00:58
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, i other places where repository grouping occurs, being able to specify the repo as well a branch (or even a tag) to use is possible	00:58
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lcuk	vgrade, would have to be logged in to see it	00:59
lcuk	CosmoHill, can moderate the discussion	00:59
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: in mozilla.org land we had people who maintained pull scripts	01:00
lcuk	CosmoHill, wisdom of the crowds usually works, give a number of the community ability to adjust the rank and category of comments	01:00
timeless_w7ip	i do not have any faith that &anyone* would do such a thing in meego	01:00
lcuk	then overall you can allow decent signal to noise by the excellent subsystem using those moderations :)	01:00
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, I would like to see if it is usable already	01:01
lcuk	the meego forum has "Thanks" ability	01:01
lcuk	so if we had a way to see threads with just highly thanked posts	01:02
lcuk	we could see whether signal/noise improves using that	01:02
lcuk	or if sheeple just vote randomness up	01:02
timeless_w7ip	?	01:02
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timeless_w7ip	:( for some reason this bond film wasn't recorded from the start	01:03
* timeless_w7ip suspects the DVR decided to go loopy by 1hr		01:03
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lcuk	speaking of DVRs, I have stuff to watch also \o ttyl	01:04
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vgrade	lcuk, http://twitpic.com/4bxqi7/full	01:13
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gabrbedd	vgrade: nice! What tablet is that?	01:17
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lcuk	vgrade, cool :P myclock is much simpler http://liqbase.net/liq.20110320_032054.liqbase-playground.scr.png	01:24
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CosmoHill	lcuk: you're leading the way for a truly personalised GUI	01:25
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lcuk	CosmoHill, :) well once released it will stop being "myclock" and become yourclock instead	01:26
lcuk	its a good feeling to say "have you seen myclock"	01:26
lcuk	tho sometimes ladies blush if they mishear you	01:27
CosmoHill	I did have to re-read what you said initalluy	01:27
lcuk	;)	01:27
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w00t_	(lcuk knows this from experience, from using liqbase as a chatup line in the past)	01:29
lcuk	w00t_, even I blushed at the meego conf when revdkathy wanted me to write liqballs app	01:29
w00t_	are they chocolate salty liqballs?	01:30
* CosmoHill blinks		01:30
w00t_	oh come on..	01:30
w00t_	if you don't know that reference i will dispair	01:30
w00t_	despair*	01:30
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lcuk	w00t_, I did once facepalm whilst making the first scrollbar	01:32
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lcuk	but otherwise, no try not to consider the naming style	01:32
w00t_	:)	01:33
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lcuk	CosmoHill, "users interface" and "personal computing" :P	01:41
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CosmoHill	if swearing was a user interface I'd be a pro	01:41
CosmoHill	the ammount of rude hand gestures I make a matlab...	01:42
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lcuk	lol CosmoHill I have heard lardman\|gone cursing at matlab	01:42
lcuk	though yesterday at the mMMM @mja_fin said he works with it all the time and didn't curse	01:43
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CosmoHill	the biggest problem I have with matlab is that when I get stuck that's it, nothing I can do. I need the lecturer	01:44
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lcuk	CosmoHill, what about other people on your course?	01:44
CosmoHill	simon is fine, I'm a swearing ball of anger / second best in class and everyone asks me or the lecturer	01:45
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CosmoHill	I am very pleased that the assignment is basically put the tutorials together in one package with GUI	01:48
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lcuk	CosmoHill, did you have to write the tutorials too?	01:49
CosmoHill	you mean like a report or something to go with the programming?	01:49
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* lcuk remembers having to wreate a whole suite of documentation and guides and putting them into big hive		01:49
lcuk	s/wreate/create/	01:50
CosmoHill	yeah he wants us to explain what each function does, it's input and output	01:50
CosmoHill	simon (bring the prick that he is) kindly reminded us that we finish in 20 days	01:51
lcuk	DawnFoster, at the MOSI next week there is a beerfest	01:51
lcuk	( http://www.camra.org.uk/event.aspx?o=333421 )	01:52
lcuk	Campaign for real ale are putting it on!	01:52
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CosmoHill	my dad's a member of that IIRC	01:52
DawnFoster	I don't even drink beer (I just offer to buy it for people) :)	01:53
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lcuk	DawnFoster, lol	01:54
DawnFoster	lcuk: I continue to taste beer that friends / family claim is delicious and still can't find one I like	01:55
lcuk	DawnFoster, choose bars that sell cocktails	01:55
lcuk	tasting is good	01:55
DawnFoster	lcuk: ha! you found my strategy :)	01:55
lcuk	I have started doing that	01:55
lcuk	but people shout when I wander over to their table	01:56
* CosmoHill sticks with cider		01:56
DawnFoster	cocktails or wine are more my speed	01:56
lcuk	just blend in more: drink wine from a pint glass.	01:56
CosmoHill	tastes better when a lecturer paid for it	01:56
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gabrbedd	mmmmmm..... beer.	02:07
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RhymeswA	talking about beer look at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/foodanddining/features/2011/beer-madness/	02:18
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RhymeswA	Sorry if this is off topic	02:19
CosmoHill	I think the topic around here is a bit loose	02:20
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lcuk	RhymeswA, beer is never off topic, though we do have #meego-bar for more :P	02:20
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lcuk	but anyway -> cyas later	02:21
CosmoHill	in one channel I run you can go off topic within reason but you must help someone if they request it	02:21
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CosmoHill	night lcuk	02:21
lcuk	CosmoHill, sensible	02:21
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lcuk	nothing is offtopic unless you get pulled	02:21
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CosmoHill	yeah	02:22
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CosmoHill	http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/LFS-RULES	02:23
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RhymeswA	thanks ... interested in your takes in meego-bar on the beer-madness	02:27
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gabrbedd	mmmmm.... bacon.	02:32
berndhs	bacon is better with beer	02:34
TSCHAKeee	pancetta :D	02:35
berndhs	also better with beer	02:36
RhymeswA	but what kind of beer??	02:36
berndhs	depends on the weather	02:36
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CosmoHill	I had so much bacon in my BLC my lettice fell out	02:36
berndhs	lettuce can be dangerous, bacteria, radiactive waste and all that	02:37
RhymeswA	nah, IPA all the time	02:37
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gabrbedd	CosmoHill: BLC == Bacon, Lettuce, and... Chocolate ?	02:40
CosmoHill	cucumber	02:41
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vgrade	gabrbedd, Advent Vega	02:51
TSCHAKeee	do we have hardware accelleration yet?	02:52
TSCHAKeee	do we have hardware accelleration yet?	02:52
TSCHAKeee	do we have hardware accelleration yet?	02:52
TSCHAKeee	;)	02:52
TSCHAKeee	hehehehehe	02:52
* TSCHAKeee hugs vgrade just kidding.		02:52
gabrbedd	vgrade: Thanks!	02:53
vgrade	TSCHAKeee, no	02:53
vgrade	TSCHAKeee, no	02:53
TSCHAKeee	i know	02:53
vgrade	TSCHAKeee, no	02:53
TSCHAKeee	;)	02:54
vgrade	:)	02:54
TSCHAKeee	from what i see for the ce4100, i don't exactly see X support	02:54
TSCHAKeee	that will make things interesting	02:54
TSCHAKeee	orbiter can of course run on directFB (which they provide)	02:54
vgrade	really, not that as well	02:55
TSCHAKeee	but i will need to probably write a new video player specifically for the sodaville	02:55
TSCHAKeee	an interesting challenge to be sure	02:55
vgrade	btw, that picture of the vega does have accelerated gfx :)	02:55
TSCHAKeee	;)	02:56
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vgrade	TSCHAKeee, no word from anyone from nVidia	02:57
TSCHAKeee	i guess we have to be paying customers	02:57
vgrade	TSCHAKeee, they seem to be busy on Android and Chromium	02:58
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TSCHAKeee	:(	02:58
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TSCHAKeee	i really don't want android and linux to be synonymous.	02:59
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vgrade	TSCHAKeee, indeed, I spend a couple of days wondering why I has to run all networking as root until I discovered CONFIG_ANDROID_PARANOID kernel option.	03:00
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TSCHAKeee	vgrade: :(	03:02
vgrade	TSCHAKeee, I'm working on my first app port	03:02
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TSCHAKeee	what is it?	03:02
vgrade	QtQuickPlayground	03:03
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vgrade	Examples of QML which you can interactively edit	03:03
vgrade	My first OBS app. Sorted compile and linker issues and now onto install permission issues	03:04
TSCHAKeee	awesome	03:05
TSCHAKeee	i am seriously considering making orbiter a collection of loosely bound QML apps	03:05
vgrade	I hope to run the result on N900, Joggler, Vega to prove the 'write once run anywhere' statement	03:06
* TSCHAKeee has been staring at the joggler ever since the photo screen saver started running		03:06
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vgrade	TSCHAKeee, Playground might be a good template	03:07
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Cosmo[PB]	cyas	03:08
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TSCHAKeee	vgrade: does the kernel adaptation joggler work with the latest builds (everything seems to have shifted up to 2.6.37)	05:06
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TSCHAKeee	you know, it'd be cool as hell	05:15
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TSCHAKeee	if we knew what the hell everybody was working on in OBS	05:15
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rdesfo	I'm unable to create an account at bugs.meego.com	05:31
rdesfo	I get a message that says "ACCESS DENIED \n You are not authorized to access this page."	05:32
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gabrbedd	rdesfo: file a bug	05:33
gabrbedd	rdesfo: just kidding....	05:33
rdesfo	gabrbedd: thats funny	05:34
gabrbedd	rdesfo: seriously... I guess post something to the meego-packaging ML about it.	05:34
gabrbedd	rdesfo: FWIW, I get the same thing if I try to create a new acct.	05:35
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rdesfo	is there a way to add more web accounts right now all I see is last.fm and tweeter	05:38
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gabrbedd	rdesfo: on handset? Hrm... I can't even make those work without a USB keyboard.	05:42
rdesfo	meego netbook	05:43
gabrbedd	idk.	05:43
rdesfo	idk? is that like sdk? does it still need to be developed?	05:44
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gabrbedd	idk == i don't know.	05:45
gabrbedd	sorry.	05:45
rdesfo	oh ok... np	05:46
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iekku	morning	05:50
gabrbedd	good morning!	05:55
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pauly	hi quick question im in usa i want to buy some kinda tablet but the wetab isnt in usa? any ideas	06:07
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timoph	AFAIK you can order it from amazon.de	06:18
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pauly	in the us?	06:20
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pauly	453.9 euros = 645.3096 US dollars lol forget that	06:22
gabrbedd	pauly: what are you wanting the tablet for?	06:25
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gabrbedd	pauly: Lots of guys have been using the Lenovo S10-3t which is a convertable netbook/tablet. Only caveat is the unsupported broadcom wifi card on many of them.	06:28
gabrbedd	pauly: The internal intel guys have been using the ExoPC lately, or so I've heard from the likes of DawnFoster	06:28
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gabrbedd	pauly: And there's the ii-View M1Touch, which I've been developing on. The only caveat there is the touchscreen driver (which has been submitted to the devs for the 1.2 release)	06:29
gabrbedd	pauly: Those are all x86 options, btw. If you're looking for an ARM-based tablet... I won't be much help on that one. :-)	06:31
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Sage	btw, how long meego releases are supported? 1 year after the original release?	06:55
Stskeeps	something like that	06:55
Sage	or is that extended with every update release for another x months, ie., 1.0.1, 1.0.2 etc.?	06:56
Stskeeps	doubt it is extended	06:56
Sage	Just wondering as the 1.0 will meet the 1 year marker in couple of months.	06:57
Sage	and is there a process for community/vendors if they want to provide updates for these old releases? or does this mean that they need to setup their own obs to do that?	06:59
* TSCHAKeee was able to do a feasibility test with our OpenGL UI (V2) in MeeGo on the Joggler.. the key here is that the display is a combination of OpenGL and window compositing providing the entire display. To date, the only other driver besides Intel EMGD to do this CORRECTLY is the NVIDIA Binary driver. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoNdwD9mMHk		06:59
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Stskeeps	Sage: i suppose there is nothing stopping anyone from providing updates	07:00
timoph	who actually decides when a MeeGo release is not supported anymore?	07:06
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Sage	TSG maybe?	07:09
timoph	could be	07:12
Sage	The devices where MeeGo is used are usually used more than 1 year and when the device is released it is most probably using a bit old release already. I just wonder how many of the vendors will actually update to newer meego release during the device life cycle.	07:12
Stskeeps	when it runs out of resourcing prolly	07:14
timoph	yep. unless the upgrading is made easy vendors most likely aren't too keen on doing it	07:15
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timoph	from an end user point of view I would for example expect netbooks to be easy to upgrade but currently it's far from that. If there would be such a mechanism for netbooks I can't see why it wouldn't work for handsets as well	07:19
timoph	and there really should be some easy way to upgrade MeeGo	07:20
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Sage	is 1.1 upgradable to 1.2 btw? I recall seeing bug about that at some point.	07:20
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Stskeeps	think the sad thing is that noone automatically tests	07:21
Sage	bug 9205	07:21
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9205 enh, High, 1.1.0, anas.nashif, NEW, Cannot Update from 1.0 to 1.1	07:21
* timoph voted		07:25
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timoph	hmmh. automating upgrade test shouldn't be that hard. basically automatically install release n, tell it to upgrade to version n+1, check that the system works by running all the tests. Requires work and would be a long test but IMO doable	07:30
wuyongb	a quick question: how to submit my modified sorce code ? or how to check if I am authorized to do that ?	07:31
timoph	to where? obs?	07:31
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Stskeeps	wuyongb: contribution guidelines = http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines	07:32
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timoph	Stskeeps: wuyongb is one of the guys executing tests on n900	07:33
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Stskeeps	ah	07:35
Stskeeps	still, or request a obs account	07:36
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wuyongb	stskeeps : yes , I explained what I am going to do , to request a obs account , yesterday	07:37
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wuyongb	stskeeps : how to request account ?	07:50
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Stskeeps	wuyongb: thought i gave the url yesterday :)	07:52
timoph	wuyongb: while waiting for the account me or Kaadlajk could update your test package in obs so the test can be run	07:53
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TSCHAKeee	can Qt Quick stuff run under Android via the Qt port?	07:54
wuyongb	stskeeps : yes, I have followed the instructions there, now already checked out packages and checked in locally. so how can i submit my changes ?	07:55
Stskeeps	wuyongb: osc submitreq	07:55
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: think i saw demos	07:55
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timoph	wuyongb: osc ci	07:57
timoph	ah. nevermind you already did that :)	07:57
timoph	btwm the check-in is not a local operation. it pushes your changes into obs	07:58
wuyongb	timoph : thanks	07:58
wuyongb	timoph and stskeeps : thanks. and my request id is 15080	07:58
wuyongb	stskeeps : how can I check the status of my request ?	07:59
Sage	wuyongb: if you have email address sert you will get mail	08:00
Sage	when the request is accepted or declined	08:00
wuyongb	sage : if my request is a high priority one, how can I make to be checked soon to get accepted ?	08:02
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Sage	well i guess you could sent mail to meego-packaging or to person that handles request for your target project	08:04
timoph	wuyongb: ping Kaadlajk. he takes care of those packages	08:04
wuyongb	thanks. I will	08:04
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timoph	wuyongb: btw, you didn't update the changelog, etc. only the tar ball	08:09
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wuyongb	timoph : no, only the tar ball. is that right ?	08:12
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timoph	wuyongb: no it's not. see http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines#Changelogs (and I'd guess you should change the version number as well)	08:16
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Sage	wuyongb: you should not change the content of the tar ball witout changing the name/version. and if you are not the upstream maintainer you should not change the version.	08:24
Sage	so the best way would be that you would add a patch to the ppackage that does your changes to the current tarball	08:25
Sage	so the upstream maintainer could take the patch to the upstream and next official version	08:26
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wuyongb	sage and timoph : so how can I cancel my request ?	08:32
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timoph	wuyongb: IIRC it's osc request revoke [id]	08:35
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wuyongb	timoph : now I need you help to update test package as you saied.	08:37
wuyongb	timoph : your email ?	08:38
timoph	wuyongb: please talk with Kaadlajk with that since I'm out of office today	08:38
wuyongb	timoph : ok .thanks	08:38
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Termana	morning	09:29
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* timeless_w7ip sighs		10:55
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: ping	10:55
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timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/meego-contacts-sync/README?force=1&mark=2-2	10:56
timeless_w7ip	ok, halp	10:56
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iekku	http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/meego-contacts-sync/README?force=1&mark=2-2	10:56
iekku	argh, I hate putty	10:57
timeless_w7ip	heh	10:57
timeless_w7ip	cute	10:57
timeless_w7ip	Qt creator is also creative about spelling contacts	10:57
timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/search?string=contacs	10:57
iekku	not really, need to install some other sw, not used to use irc on the win laptop	10:58
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timeless_w7ip	iekku: mirc is the standard, i'm using Comic Chat 2.5	10:59
timeless_w7ip	sane people would probably grab chatzilla-xulrunner	10:59
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iekku	i usually use terminal	11:00
timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/search?string=contacs&find=&findi=&filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=repo.meego.com	11:02
* timeless_w7ip cries		11:02
timeless_w7ip	note to self: slap the idiots who write ontologies	11:02
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iekku	now i'm running putty tray, better	11:02
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timeless_w7ip	iekku: so, how's the bug triage going? (and where is it going?)	11:12
iekku	timeless_w7ip, curently no tirages ongoing	11:14
iekku	timeless_w7ip, triages even	11:14
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timeless_w7ip	oh, heh	11:32
timeless_w7ip	there's a maemo.gitorious.org in addition to a meego.gitorious.org	11:32
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timeless_w7ip	how confusing	11:32
* timeless_w7ip wonders if there's anything meego related in it		11:33
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* timeless_w7ip sighs		11:36
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mdfe_	X-Fade: do you have time to take a look on a the broken arm build issue (https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14693)?	11:37
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug 14693 nor, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, speedrpm fails to build chroot properly in chroot OBS builds outside build.meego.com	11:37
X-Fade	mdfe_: Yes, we're checking it out.	11:37
mdfe_	:)	11:38
part	timeless_w7ip: yes, there si	11:38
part	timeless_w7ip: s/si/is/	11:38
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matrixx	any idea why http://apidocs.meego.com/ gives me 403 (forbidden) ?	11:39
timeless_w7ip	matrixx: sounds friendly :)	11:40
matrixx	wondering just is it only me or for everyone :]	11:40
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timeless_w7ip	http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i0zEKdfiRXYJ:apidocs.meego.com/+http://apidocs.meego.com/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com	11:41
timeless_w7ip	it's not just you	11:41
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timeless_w7ip	matrixx: what do you need from it?	11:41
X-Fade	matrixx: will check it out.	11:41
matrixx	timeless_w7ip: just checking on MNotification class of libmeegotouch	11:41
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matrixx	X-Fade: great	11:42
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timeless_w7ip	matrixx: you can try http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/ident?i=MNotification	11:42
timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/libmeegotouch/src/corelib/notification/mnotification.h#32	11:43
timeless_w7ip	is the documentation source..	11:43
matrixx	timeless_w7ip: never mind, I have the source code, was just too lazy to check from there	11:43
timeless_w7ip	matrixx: aww	11:43
timeless_w7ip	it's hypertext... hypertext is your friend	11:44
matrixx	yeah, I like hypertext, thanks :)	11:44
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* timeless_w7ip is trying to get people to use mxr		11:44
timeless_w7ip	be an early adopter!	11:44
matrixx	I will!	11:44
X-Fade	matrixx: fixed	11:45
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matrixx	X-Fade: thanks	11:46
matrixx	works perfectly now :)	11:47
matrixx	timeless_w7ip: mxr seems also very nice :)	11:47
* timeless_w7ip disagrees w/ perfectly		11:47
timeless_w7ip	http://apidocs.meego.com/1.0/mtf/introduction.html	11:47
matrixx	hehe	11:47
timeless_w7ip	where's http://apidocs.meego.com/1.0/mtf/duiplatform.png ?	11:47
matrixx	oops	11:47
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timeless_w7ip	matrixx: anyway, if you have any problems/questions/concerns about mxr, please let me know :)	11:50
timeless_w7ip	ideally it should be able to answer many questions for you	11:50
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timeless_w7ip	ooh	11:51
* timeless_w7ip wonders if the doxygen paths on apidocs are reliable		11:52
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matrixx	timeless_w7ip: thanks, I will	11:53
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timeless_w7ip	wow	12:02
* timeless_w7ip ponders		12:02
timeless_w7ip	it's taking about an hour to do an identifier index for meego, and closer to 80mins to do a freetext index for the same (if i have my numbers right)	12:03
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thiago	for those who had asked to see a video of the Qt+QML clone of xbmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmmyTEY6o0Y	12:22
timeless_w7ip	thiago: hey, so, do you guys have people who pay attn to bugs.meego.com? :)	12:23
* timeless_w7ip wants to use it to file bugs about Qt Creator		12:23
thiago	not from Qt, no	12:23
timeless_w7ip	:(	12:23
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thiago	we have our own bugtracker for that	12:23
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thiago	we don't pay attention to distro's bugtrackers	12:23
* timeless_w7ip nods		12:23
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timeless_w7ip	do you reasonably expect the maintainers to send you their bugs/patches?	12:24
thiago	yes	12:24
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timeless_w7ip	ok :)	12:24
thiago	not submitted = doesn't exist from our point of view	12:24
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* thiago walked over the list of patches on top of Qt once with the Kubuntu maintainers		12:24
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thiago	scary stuff	12:24
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timeless_w7ip	heh	12:24
andre	timeless_w7ip: if you want creator bugs to be fixed, file them at bugreport.qt.nokia.com	12:25
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thiago	that said, most of the patches that MeeGo applies on top of Qt come from us anyway	12:25
timeless_w7ip	https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14795	12:25
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug 14795 nor, Undecided, ---, maurice.kalinowski, NEW, contacts is misspelled in qt-creator addressbook-sdk.qdoc	12:25
thiago	it's fixes backported from the next release	12:25
timeless_w7ip	andre: i don't want bugs fixed, i want people to get into the habit of talking to upstream :)	12:25
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thiago	maurice is upstream	12:26
timeless_w7ip	if we get in the habit of doing it now, maybe thiago won't run into the problem he ran into w/ kubuntu	12:26
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andre	timeless_w7ip: I am upstream.	12:26
* thiago tried to upgrade to gcc 4.5 yesterday for ARM and got a bunch of errors from qatomic_armv6.h		12:26
thiago	googling for the error shows gcc developers discussing it	12:26
* timeless_w7ip is on the shore tossing breadcrumbs in to see where they go		12:27
timeless_w7ip	thiago: ain't gcc fun?	12:27
timeless_w7ip	are you looking forward to llvm? :)	12:27
thiago	yes	12:27
thiago	but right now, I can't compile QtGui with -Werror	12:27
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timeless_w7ip	the fact that GCC doesn't test against major projects is rather unfortunate	12:28
timeless_w7ip	"we have a test suite, it doesn't cover the real world, we don't care"	12:28
timeless_w7ip	"web browsers, operating systems, compilers, toolkits, -- not important"	12:28
lbt	jeremiah: ping	12:28
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* timeless_w7ip wonders where qt-creator hides its .ts files		12:29
andre	timeless_w7ip: assigning spelling mistakes to maurice personally does not look like a sensible thing to do. in practice, for one line changes like that, speak up on #qt-creator or such and it will be fixed immediately. creating a bugreport for that is a complete waste of resources.	12:30
timeless_w7ip	http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/source/qt-creator/share/qtcreator/translations/qtcreator_es.ts	12:30
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jeremiah	lbt: pont	12:42
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jeremiah	or pong even	12:43
lbt	heh .... at some point I want to get a vendor ecosystem going	12:43
lbt	to drive MeeGo to be more oriented towards their real customers	12:43
jeremiah	lbt: This is really crucial	12:43
lbt	interested?	12:43
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jeremiah	Yes, I am most interested.	12:43
lbt	OK.	12:44
jeremiah	lbt: Not least because in GENIVI there is going to be a reliance (hopefully) on this type of solution	12:44
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lbt	BTW seen http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-now-for-meego.html	12:44
jeremiah	That means that a number of large companies will want an open OBS that is a clone of the "original" OBS	12:44
* jeremiah reads lbt's link		12:44
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lbt	jeremiah: yep ...and that's what I'm bitching about here	12:45
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jeremiah	lbt: Yeah. Obvisously Novell is going to want to go after that business	12:45
jeremiah	But LF has promised that the OBS will remain open	12:45
jeremiah	So we have to make sure they keep that promise	12:46
jeremiah	And that means good documentation, a team to report issues to, etc.	12:46
lbt	I'm not worried about open at the license level - that'll happen	12:46
lbt	I'm worried about operational open-ness	12:46
jeremiah	Yeah, exactlhy.	12:46
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jeremiah	part of it is the ad hoc style we're in currently, but part of it is institutional inertia	12:47
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jeremiah	Right now there are a lot of "operational open-ness" issues. Like who builds the package patterns, who decides core, compliance, TSG make up, etc.	12:48
pan1nx	Who can create / from whom should I ask access to build.meego.com? I am pan1nx on meego.com... Thanks!	12:48
jeremiah	pan1nx: Did you file a bug in the MeeGo bug tracking system?	12:49
jeremiah	That is the first step	12:49
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pan1nx	Is there a faster way? Thanks jeremiah...	12:49
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jeremiah	pan1nx: Not at this point I am sorry to say.	12:50
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jeremiah	pan1nx: You may want to follow up with an email to one of the lists, perhaps meego-dev if I'm not mistaken.	12:50
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lbt	pan1nx: do you have commit rights to a core package?	12:50
lbt	if you just want to build OSS apps etc you want the community OBS	12:51
lbt	see http://wiki.meego.com/OBS	12:51
jeremiah	Yeah, that is what I'd suggest too	12:51
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pan1nx	I got the answer! Thank you guys...	12:52
jeremiah	http://wiki.meego.com/Core_OBS	12:53
pan1nx	Ok. Thanks.	12:53
jeremiah	(that URL was for general consumption.)	12:53
pan1nx	is this right place: https://build.pub.meego.com/user/register_user	12:56
pan1nx	for the record...	12:56
jeremiah	pan1nx: That is for the community OBS	12:57
jeremiah	pan1nx: Not for the "core" OBS	12:57
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pan1nx	Thanks jeremiah, I go for OSS for now :)	12:58
jeremiah	pan1nx: w00t!	12:58
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lbt	pan1nx: yep... that's right	12:59
pan1nx	lbt, I emailed you already...	12:59
lbt	not arrived yet...	13:00
lbt	greylisting can delay it an hour... account?	13:00
pan1nx	pan1nx	13:02
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lbt	done	13:03
pan1nx	thanks	13:04
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pan1nx	works... lbt, thanks	13:05
lbt	np	13:05
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* timeless_w7ip realizes that andre != andre__		13:46
andre__	heh	13:46
timeless_w7ip	i know you probably tried to warn me	13:46
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timeless_w7ip	but it didn't work!	13:46
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akiniemi	lbt: ping	13:48
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lbt	akiniemi: pong	13:53
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akiniemi	lbt: I need access to community OBS, my username is akiniemi	13:54
akiniemi	I'm working on the N900 DE	13:55
lbt	akiniemi: sure ..	13:55
* lbt stabs Stskeeps for the big list...		13:55
lbt	actually akiniemi ... you can probably help Stskeeps out here... it would save us time to just get a list of meego.com usernames for the DE people	13:56
lbt	maybe you can find a way to help him make the list?	13:56
Stskeeps	if people would be patient and wait for my talk ;)	13:58
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akiniemi	lbt: makes sense, though I don't have such a list myself	14:04
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lbt	Stskeeps: heh ...	14:04
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timeless_w7ip	cool, Qt Creator is so stable, even a monkey can crash it!	14:14
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* timeless_w7ip suspects a cat could crash it too		14:14
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, how did it break?	14:19
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timeless_w7ip	well, it crashed	14:20
timeless_w7ip	i didn't ask the debugger how it crashed	14:20
timeless_w7ip	Nokia-Qt is stupid and doesn't offer pdb's	14:20
timeless_w7ip	and they hide the option to build pdb's in a deep dark corner of a closet in an unused guest bedroom	14:21
lcuk	meh unstable IDE is part of life	14:21
lcuk	I have heard developers up and down the ages curse as the IDE crashes	14:21
almorelle	Hi, one short question: I want to try meego on my n900 on microSD, do I need to back up anything from my phone? Many thanks :)	14:21
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: usually you have to at least open a project to crash an ide	14:21
timeless_w7ip	i didn't get that far	14:21
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lcuk	almorelle, backing up is something you should do anyway :) but no, the normal instructions for n900 installation are non destructive and once you reboot out of meego your main phone and eMMC contents are lal the same	14:22
lcuk	hahahaha timeless_w7ip	14:22
almorelle	lcuk, sure ;) Thank you very much !	14:23
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timeless_w7ip	victory!	14:24
timeless_w7ip	psr wins!	14:24
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: do you have opera handy?	14:24
lcuk	no, but there is a ballet performance on in the kitchen.	14:25
timeless_w7ip	souds good, broadcast w/ your n900? k thx	14:25
timeless_w7ip	s/d/nd/	14:25
lcuk	:D	14:25
infobot	timeless_w7ip meant: sounds good, broadcast w/ your n900? k thx	14:25
almorelle	have a nice day :)	14:25
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lcuk	no, it is on lukes phone	14:26
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, why do you ask?	14:26
lcuk	others might have it	14:26
timeless_w7ip	the easiest way to watch this is w/ opera or msie	14:27
lcuk	don't have either	14:27
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timeless_w7ip	you were more likely to have opera	14:27
* lcuk uses firefox		14:27
* timeless_w7ip nods		14:27
timeless_w7ip	i don't use opera	14:27
timeless_w7ip	but it seems that i do have it	14:28
* timeless_w7ip wonders if it's out of date		14:28
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, the other lesser browsers do not have flashblock :)	14:28
* lcuk smiles everytime that nobble is visible because I helped fix it :)		14:28
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timeless_w7ip	heh	14:42
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lcuk	timoph, USB networking with n900 and ideapad	15:18
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lcuk	do you know if it works well?	15:18
timoph	hmmh	15:18
timoph	haven	15:19
timoph	't tested that lately	15:19
lcuk	timoph, only thinking of travelling and the ad-hoc networking issue	15:20
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lcuk	so if it works, can just plug in and the big meego device and n900 can work together :)	15:21
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timoph	they should work	15:21
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timoph	I thought you meant ssh'ing into netbook image using usbnet :)	15:22
* timoph break. bbl		15:23
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/ideapad/source/qt2010sdk/qt-creator-falls-over-when-poked-Problem_20110322_1417/slide0002.ht	15:35
timeless_w7ip	s/ht/htm	15:35
timeless_w7ip	rr	15:36
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/ideapad/source/qt2010sdk/qt-creator-falls-over-when-poked-Problem_20110322_1417/slide0002.htm	15:36
* timeless_w7ip sighs		15:36
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, ...	16:27
lcuk	your walk through is special - nice way of presenting bug actually	16:27
lcuk	have you put it somewhere where real qt qt-creator people can see it?	16:27
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timeless_w7ip	yeah	16:31
timeless_w7ip	they claim it isn't applicable to 2.1/2.2	16:31
* timeless_w7ip shrugs		16:31
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: that's from <psr.exe>	16:31
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timeless_w7ip	it dates to vista iirc	16:32
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andre	lcuk: I claim I cannot apply the manually extracted screenshots to either 2.1 nor 2.2, and "staying as close as possible" does not lead to a crash	16:32
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andre	lcuk: in any case, bugreports.qt.nokia.com is the place to report such stuff, preferably in an easily inspectable way. and a stack trace would be nice.	16:33
* timeless_w7ip claims nokia shouldn't expect stack traces if it isn't willing to provide pdb's		16:34
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timeless_w7ip	and yes, it's my dumb employer	16:34
timeless_w7ip	but we're not that stupid in the Maemo side of things, we collect core dumps and pair them to symbols to get stack traces automatically	16:34
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andre	timeless_w7ip: I _am_ not Nokia. I work there. _I_ expect a stack trace, _Nokia_ probably doesn't	16:35
timeless_w7ip	you have my sympathies	16:35
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timeless_w7ip	but i've been involved w/ major projects for over a decade, and in projects where crashing is expected, collecting crash reports is part of the project and is managed appropriately	16:36
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lcuk	andre, What happens if you send the stack trace to Mr Elop?	16:37
lcuk	perhaps he (like yourself) will be personally interested in it!	16:37
timeless_w7ip	and for groups which try to offer themselves as a platform, it's a good idea to provide the necessary bits, which includes symbols (especially for projects which are open source where there's nothing to hide)	16:37
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andre	lcuk: seems unrelated.	16:37
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timeless_w7ip	lcuk: his priority is wp7	16:38
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timeless_w7ip	and i'm 99% certain wp7 includes enough symbol info for the os to get work done	16:38
timeless_w7ip	windows certainly does	16:38
lbt	mutter.... so I'm doing tests on usenames ... pick a "random won't be used one".... turns out we have a "froggy" ... ah well	16:38
andre	lcuk: the point is: if you want the thing fixed, make it easy to reproduce. or at least known. #1 is using the right bugtracker	16:38
timeless_w7ip	and there's no reason for ms not to do so for wp7	16:38
milian	where can I get mad-developer for meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime ?	16:38
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timeless_w7ip	andre: i don't really care if the things gets fixed	16:38
andre	lcuk: creating bug reports like https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14795 is a complete waste of time.	16:39
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug 14795 nor, Undecided, ---, maurice.kalinowski, NEW, contacts is misspelled in qt-creator addressbook-sdk.qdoc	16:39
timeless_w7ip	but i do want people to be aware that their toolchain is significantly inferrior to the competition	16:39
jonwil	Windows Phone 7 debugging is completly different to regular windows because its all .NET	16:39
jonwil	so symbols and symbol tables are done differently	16:39
lcuk	andre, why a waste of time?	16:39
andre	lcuk: that's 20 seconds work to fix on short notice on #qt-creator	16:39
lcuk	since the bug is occuring on the meego sdk	16:39
jonwil	Although I have no doubt that Microsoft does have internal servers with symbols for publicly released builds of WP7	16:39
lcuk	andre, not everyone uses irc	16:40
lcuk	infact, most do not.	16:40
andre	lcuk: then on bugreports.qt.nokia.com. and you guys obviously do.	16:40
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timeless_w7ip	obviously?	16:40
* timeless_w7ip coughs		16:40
timeless_w7ip	99.99% of us do not	16:40
lcuk	andre, why not just add yourselves to CC on meego.com bugs?	16:40
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timeless_w7ip	heck, even the maemo people generally filed bugs in maemo bug trackers	16:40
timeless_w7ip	and expected someone else to migrate them across	16:41
andre	timeless_w7ip: "Reported: 2011-03-22 02:30 PDT by timeless "	16:41
lcuk	you can be assigned default person on the bugtracker	16:41
lcuk	and if it turns out to be a general problem it can be mirrored wherever else you need	16:41
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: andre indicated that maurice (the assignee) is a Qt person	16:41
lcuk	but users around meego have a meego user account	16:41
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lcuk	ahh so, this noise is not required	16:42
* lcuk shuts up		16:42
vgrade-nexus	Do both these procedures enable me to package a Qt application for building on community OBS , http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.0/Packaging/Tutorial, http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Tutorials/Packaging or do I need bits from both?	16:43
andre	timeless_w7ip: still wrongly assigned.	16:43
timeless_w7ip	so fix the assignee	16:43
timeless_w7ip	if you want a different default assignee, file a bug	16:43
timeless_w7ip	we'll change it	16:43
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andre	timeless_w7ip: that bug is fixed. I won't create a meego account to re-assign a fixed bug.	16:44
* lcuk puts hand up ginergly		16:44
X-Fade	vgrade-nexus: Why don't you try it out and report if there are problems? That gives us a good way to validate the docs?	16:44
lcuk	andre, but you just asked others to do the same for oyu	16:44
lcuk	s/oyu/you/	16:44
infobot	lcuk meant: andre, but you just asked others to do the same for you	16:44
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andre	lcuk: alright. maybe we should settle one question first. are you (as in 'meego') interested in getting creator bugs fixed, or are you happy enough with a bugtracker that acts as /dev/null?	16:46
* lcuk has an account at qt.nokia.com :)		16:46
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andre	lcuk: just drop a notic on #qt-creator, you don't need an account for that	16:46
vgrade-nexus	X-Fade, I can report the more manual procedure is OK to package the simple sample application. I'm stuggling to package a more complex Qt app due to my inexperiance with rpm.	16:46
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lcuk	andre, I am all for fixes - it is principle reason why we are software engineers	16:47
X-Fade	vgrade-nexus: Did you create the qt app in Qt Creator?	16:47
timeless_w7ip	andre: the reason i'm filing bugs in meego is that i want to set up a pipeline between MeeGo's bug tracker and the other ones	16:47
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timeless_w7ip	so that when others come to meego and file bugs, their bugs will not end up in /dev/null	16:47
timeless_w7ip	because we'll have a working process for sending them to where they belong	16:47
lcuk	++	16:48
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timeless_w7ip	part of this also involves showing people how to use the tools available at meego.com, which includes the mxr indexes which were included in that bug report	16:48
andre	lcuk: ok, good. then the problem is to find a simple way to coordinate the processes.	16:48
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lcuk	yes, we can either keep telling people they need to jump further to file bugs now and in the future, or you can setup assignee to interact between meego users and qt directly?	16:49
andre	lcuk: my position is that trivial stuff like fixing a spelling mistake does not need a "process"	16:49
* timeless_w7ip notes that it took nokia's symbian team 8 months to integrate "simple stuff" like "spelling" fixes		16:51
lcuk	andre, :) I have seen timeless discuss "trivial" things for a long time - it matters in a deep way. Try to imagine if your entire user interface was hand written and carefully done - spelling and grammar mistakes glare out.	16:51
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vgrade-nexus	X-Fade: I'm sure it was. QtQuickPlayground. I started with the more manual procedure as I'd not noticed what looks like the easy method. My only question withe the shorter method was 'does it produce a spec file I can use with COBS'	16:52
lcuk	it is just one level of care that we should be striving to achieve.	16:52
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andre	lcuk: I am about to setup an account there. but I won't be part of any process that requires a one page bug report to fix a typo	16:52
X-Fade	vgrade-nexus: Afaik packaging can be done automatically in Qt Creator?	16:52
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lcuk	andre, sure thing - let the bugs be low priority and at some point an interested person will hopefully offer patches	16:54
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lcuk	there is no real mechanism in any OS/app to notify trivial bugs n a different way.	16:55
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lcuk	andre, if the bugs are tagged correctly, having an intern run around and fixup these things would be good (like summer students)	16:56
vgrade-nexus	X-Fade: Cool, so then I can use the same spec file on COBS?	16:57
lcuk	they are not intended to take highly important developer time away	16:57
X-Fade	vgrade-nexus: There is nothing special about the spec.	16:57
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andre	lcuk: I am looking through maurice's bugs on bugs.meego.com right now.	16:57
lcuk	cool	16:57
berndhs	lcuk: and the intern learns valuable skills, like proper spelling :P	16:57
lcuk	yes	16:57
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lcuk	and also the layout of the app :) ie valuable lessons :)	16:57
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vgrade-nexus	X-fade, thanks, I'll update the wiki with any observations	16:58
X-Fade	vgrade-nexus: You can also check spec files from other Qt apps to see what they are doing.	16:59
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vgrade-nexus	X-Fade, yes, I tried that and that got me this far with the manual procedure, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=Qt-Quick-Playground&project=home%3Avgrade&repository=MeeGo_current_Core_standard	17:02
vgrade-nexus	X-Fade: ie managed to get the app to compile and link but fell down installing it to the correct place	17:02
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X-Fade	vgrade-nexus: Did you specify that yaml file somewhere?	17:04
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lcuk	vgrade-nexus, another question for your skillset:	17:07
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lcuk	the ideapad has pretty poor backlighting/contrast ratio	17:08
lcuk	which meego device currently offers the closest to Nokia CBD type real clear black displays	17:08
lcuk	because with the clock displayed on a mostly black screen there is still lots of light seeping through the ideapad	17:08
timeless_w7ip	CBD??	17:09
vgrade-nexus	X-Fade: woops, yes I reomved that file from the OBS but not from the spec, rebuilding	17:09
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vgrade-nexus	lcuk, let me do a comparison when I'm next in MeeGo control	17:09
vgrade-nexus	lcuk, I will guess the joggler	17:10
* lbt wants his joggler to run 1.2 rc		17:11
lcuk	vgrade-nexus, really?	17:11
lcuk	that is the oldest of the devices	17:11
lcuk	it seems odd for it to potentially have the better screen	17:11
lcuk	or is that just a component sourcing decision made by the O2 Joggler people?	17:12
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vgrade-nexus	lcuk, thats just my recollection, i'll check tonight	17:22
lcuk	vgrade-nexus, is there a joggler image available online? I will have a peek myself with mine	17:23
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vgrade-nexus	lbt, lcuk, a bit old but still good, http://bug10738.openaos.org/images/joggler/	17:25
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed	17:25
lbt	vgrade-nexus: yes - I've used that	17:25
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lbt	I want to have an up-to-date one with the latest EMGD/xorg pairing	17:26
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TSCHAKeee	the kernel also has to match	17:28
lbt	nod	17:28
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* lcuk wonders if XV works on the joggler, as on the n900 it is sad panda (bug 13084 has fun screenshot from me within)		17:33
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink	17:33
lcuk	ooh lbt, you are displayed on that screenshot too!	17:34
lbt	:)	17:35
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DawnFoster	the meego events meeting starts in an hour in #meego-meeting (reminder): http://wiki.meego.com/Events/Meetings	17:57
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vgrade-nexus	X-Fade: getting closer, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=Qt-Quick-Playground&project=home%3Avgrade&repository=MeeGo_current_Core_standard	18:03
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DawnFoster	meego events meeting starting in about 3 minutes in #meego-meeting http://wiki.meego.com/Events/Meetings	18:57
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wmarone-n900	hmm, perhaps I should register...	19:03
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timeless_w7ip	dneary: ping me @gmail.com when you have time?	19:22
timeless_w7ip	sp3000: dinner plans?	19:23
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dneary	timeless_w7ip, Sure	19:25
dneary	It'll be tomorrow	19:25
dneary	Are you US based now?	19:25
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lcuk	oh, slides, I forgot	19:31
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timeless_w7ip	dneary: nope, i'm still in Finland	19:34
timeless_w7ip	but don't worry about time zones	19:34
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bfrog	does meego run on some base distribution like debian?	19:34
CosmoHill	bfrog: no	19:34
slonopotamus_	meego IS distribution	19:35
CosmoHill	MeeGo is a distribution built from the ground up	19:35
bfrog	what about the interface then, is that something that can be used seperately?	19:35
lcuk	then the better question is: can I run debian inside meego ;)	19:35
timeless_w7ip	UI is built aroud Qt/QML in general in theory	19:35
CosmoHill	the MeeGo UX is available on some other distobutions	19:35
lcuk	like we can run debian inside maemo	19:35
timeless_w7ip	so since Qt is theoretically portable	19:35
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timeless_w7ip	and since QML is built on that	19:35
timeless_w7ip	in theory it's portable	19:35
timeless_w7ip	more or less	19:35
CosmoHill	lcuk: this sounds like a question for the FAQ	19:36
bfrog	I mean basically I'm interesting in developing an device with a touch screen interface thats pretty customized, but meego seems like a nice building block to build on (the ux portion especially)	19:36
bfrog	network config, some basic app launching and task switchin, etc	19:36
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bfrog	is meego (the distro) pretty easy to customize? like make some additional packages for, custom kernel, etc?	19:39
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CosmoHill	I'd image if you knew what you are doing you could deploy custom packages and create your own image	19:40
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lcuk	bfrog, like any distro, you can take the entire thing and expand on it	19:40
CosmoHill	I believe there is an issue with the branding being part of the packages, IE the theme is built into the software packages and is not a seperate package you can easily replace	19:41
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lcuk	lol: Job Title: C# Developer / Analyst	19:46
lcuk	Location: Manchester	19:46
lcuk	Type: Contract/Interim	19:46
lcuk	Salary: £1 p/day	19:46
lcuk	oh crap, wrong chan	19:46
CosmoHill	wow	19:46
CosmoHill	if you worked for a year you'd be able to buy 3 litres of petrol	19:47
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lcuk	CosmoHill, it was meant for my channel, amused me that the salary was that	19:47
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CosmoHill	my channel is full of hugs, freaks out new commers	19:47
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thiago	lcuk: £1 p/day seems a bit too low	19:48
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lcuk	yeah, most of them coming past me are offered at current rates, that one jumped out	19:49
CosmoHill	I read that as 1p per day, therefore it's already 100 times better	19:49
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* lcuk might phone them and see what the real salary is		19:49
lbt	it's very common lcuk	19:50
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lcuk	CosmoHill, well, the email subject was "C# Developer / Analyst - 1 p/day"	19:50
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lcuk	lbt, not with the filter I have from the job site	19:50
* lcuk has been monitoring filters for the last ~5 years		19:51
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sp3000	timeless_w7ip: yeah, I was thinking of poking into verkkokauppa for some bits	19:52
sp3000	I got sucked into someone's crash analysis issues	19:52
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timeless_w7ip	sp3000: right, i could meet up w/ you after verkokauppa	19:54
timeless_w7ip	or i could head over there too and grab a sweet on my way	19:54
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sp3000	meh, think I'm done with that bit for the day, it seems to have some magical context to it that people can probably shed light on tomorrow	20:02
lcuk	timoph, we should discuss a travel companion app for meego tours and ways to make it work simply and to alow input of important details about travelling and keeping all paperwork together	20:02
timoph	true	20:02
timeless_w7ip	sp3000: so fud?	20:03
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lcuk	timoph, if written carefully can then be expanded beyond this usecase and be usable for other more general journey planning	20:03
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timoph	lcuk: let's get back to this. I'm currently in a train and the networking suck	20:04
timoph	s	20:04
timoph	I'll be home in about 1h	20:04
lcuk	timoph, :) this is why an app to input stuff beforehand and keep it with you is important ;)	20:04
* lcuk dislikes reliance on internet whilst on the go		20:04
timoph	:)	20:05
CosmoHill	lcuk: I should show you my phone with it's new casing, quickly before it falls apart	20:05
lcuk	yes, you should!	20:06
* timoph arriving to tampere. bbl		20:06
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sp3000	timeless_w7ip: heading ooo now	20:07
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timeless_w7ip	sp3000: which direction?	20:10
CosmoHill	lcuk:	20:11
CosmoHill	damn firefox	20:12
CosmoHill	http://black-flag.co.uk/files/phone-new_case.jpg	20:12
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timeless_w7ip	cosmohill: did you see http://glow.mozilla.org/ ?	20:17
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CosmoHill	I have now	20:17
* CosmoHill eeps and takes his laptop off power saving mode		20:17
timeless_w7ip	heh	20:18
CosmoHill	I know Oceania is a real place but it still sounds like it's from a fantasy book	20:18
CosmoHill	wow, the germans really love firefox	20:19
timeless_w7ip	only 2,172 downloads of ff4 in Helsinki :(	20:20
CosmoHill	965 people have downloaded it in my county	20:20
Bostik	see how many are from Tampere as well	20:20
timeless_w7ip	to do that i'd have to figure out what "region" tampere is in	20:20
timeless_w7ip	958 Tampere, Western Finland	20:21
* CosmoHill makes it 966 people		20:21
CosmoHill	okay okay, 965 and a half	20:21
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lcuk	timeless_w7ip, I saw a similar thing about inventions over the years :) was most informative	20:22
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CosmoHill	bugger me	20:22
lcuk	firefox is awesome :)	20:22
CosmoHill	it actually tells you what towns too	20:22
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CosmoHill	my home town has the 2nd highest downloads in the county :D	20:22
timeless_w7ip	in Peru i think it did a neighborhood	20:22
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CosmoHill	wait what	20:24
CosmoHill	brb	20:24
CosmoHill	either I've downloaded the wrong one or they've dropped powerPC support	20:25
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timeless_w7ip	the latter	20:25
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CosmoHill	could have told me that before I downloaded	20:26
CosmoHill	(mozilla, not you)	20:26
* CosmoHill wants is download uncounted now		20:26
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Bostik	I'll wait happily for ff4 to show up in sid/experimental	20:27
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sp3000	timeless_w7ip: ook, exiting store	20:28
sp3000	destination?	20:28
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* CosmoHill is running OS X		20:29
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CosmoHill	wow that's depressing and creepy	20:38
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CosmoHill	it's 6:40pm, it's dark and there is an ice cream van outside	20:39
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DawnFoster	sounds like time for ice cream	20:42
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* CosmoHill wonders why pushing his USB bluetooth adapter upwards reduces the interference with the sound card		20:44
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timoph	lcuk: I think we should create a wiki page for collecting the ideas around the meetup tour thingie	21:15
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lcuk	timoph, ok, but first we need to work out who is going to the MM occuring on the International Space Station!	21:17
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timoph	:)	21:18
lcuk	timoph, there are certainly lots of meego meetup activities - but not sure where on the wiki they are currently organised	21:19
lcuk	for the different places and details etc	21:19
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lcuk	the touring would naturally be done as an extension of that (since needing to know the locations would be important)	21:20
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timoph	yep	21:20
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DawnFoster	btw, most are listed here: http://wiki.meego.com/Local_MeeGo_Networks	21:21
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lcuk	:D DawnFoster	21:21
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DawnFoster	I like to just randomly drop links into irc to prove that I'm still here :)	21:22
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DawnFoster	Portland is lovely	21:22
lbt	moo	21:23
* lcuk thinks DawnFoster has been replaced by a shell script		21:23
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: think you've successfully managed to establish a presence that makes people think you're actually around all the time :P	21:23
Stskeeps	(or at least in waking hours)\	21:23
lbt	waking hours only .... pafff	21:23
DawnFoster	just keeping you on your toes :)	21:24
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lcuk	DawnFoster, we did not have the prerequisite 4 people at our mMMM this weekend	21:24
lcuk	however the bar does have delicious bacon sandwiches	21:24
DawnFoster	For the record, I am not a shell script (as far as you know)	21:24
lcuk	and plenty of people were peeking at our screens	21:25
Stskeeps	perl then?	21:25
* Stskeeps ducks		21:25
DawnFoster	ha!	21:25
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lcuk	Stskeeps, DawnFoster is much more refined - a carefully crafted COBOL interface.	21:26
DawnFoster	rather be a perl script	21:26
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gabrbedd	DawnFoster is a string of perls	21:27
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lcuk	there we go Stskeeps ;) saved you from getting hit	21:27
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lcuk	son wants me to put my clock app on android	21:32
* lcuk sighed heavily		21:33
lcuk	he is after some htc thingy	21:33
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timakima	lcuk: desire z? :)	21:35
* lcuk giggles at @migueldeicaza who asked me to tell him when I came up with innovative apps		21:36
lcuk	timakima, I don't know which	21:36
timakima	i just bought one couple of weeks ago	21:37
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* lcuk wonders whether migueldeicaza has seen liqbase before now :)		21:41
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CosmoHill	lcuk: btw did you see the new phone casing?	21:42
lcuk	no, you posted it?	21:42
CosmoHill	yeah	21:42
* lcuk ate dinner		21:42
CosmoHill	I set off your highlight and swore at firefox	21:43
lcuk	ahhh CosmoHill - sidetracked by firefox shiny	21:43
CosmoHill	firefox told me to sod off / by a new mac	21:43
lcuk	heh	21:44
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lcuk	that is nicer - but lacks the asthetic of tape	21:44
CosmoHill	bottom of the case and top row of keys are coming off already	21:44
lcuk	you are an abuser	21:45
lcuk	treat phoens with care!	21:46
CosmoHill	it's a chinese knock off	21:46
lcuk	s/phoens/phones/	21:46
infobot	lcuk meant: treat phones with care!	21:46
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lcuk	CosmoHill, why not an original?	21:46
CosmoHill	duno, mate found it for £4	21:47
lcuk	wow, you just doubled the price of your phone! :P	21:47
lcuk	the state that bashed in one was lol	21:47
lcuk	CosmoHill, what sensors does that phone have?	21:48
CosmoHill	I think it has an ambient light sensor on the front	21:48
CosmoHill	hopefully not pain	21:48
lcuk	accelerometer? gps? camera? compass? moisture? pressure? temperature?	21:49
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CosmoHill	gps, 5MP main camera and VGA front camera	21:50
lcuk	can you take a pic with the main camera?	21:51
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timoph	lcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Local_MeeGo_Networks/Meetup_Tour	21:52
CosmoHill	lcuk: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/cars.jpg	21:53
CosmoHill	think that's orginal	21:53
CosmoHill	lcuk: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/jan-snow-1.jpg	21:53
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CosmoHill	do I get geek points for having to recompile my anti-virus for every update?	21:57
lcuk	timoph, :D	21:57
lcuk	I have just added a bit about Birmingham meetup	21:57
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lcuk	CosmoHill, those are good clear shots!	21:58
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lcuk	the sensor is great in decent light!	21:58
CosmoHill	http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/cosmo_cluster/desk4.jpg	21:59
lcuk	where is rst38h?	22:00
lcuk	hmm he normally has something to say about camera sensors	22:00
CosmoHill	http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/cosmo_cluster/cluster1.jpg << not so good	22:00
CosmoHill	lcuk: the biggest problem I have with my phone's camera is that I also own a DSLR	22:01
lcuk	can your dslr also make phone calls?	22:01
CosmoHill	I mean my phone is great for when I'm out and about I wanna take a pic of something cool	22:01
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CosmoHill	lcuk: I quickly took this as it was driving off	22:04
CosmoHill	http://black-flag.co.uk/files/Phone%20Pics/18022011356.jpg	22:04
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lcuk	heh	22:06
* CosmoHill only uploads the good ones		22:06
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frak	has anyone succeed in having nvidia display driver working ? (meego 1.1.3 netbook)	22:07
lcuk	CosmoHill, :) be open source about your photos!	22:07
lcuk	good/bad/indifferent - get them up	22:07
CosmoHill	lcuk: I've just removed that one cos it has my town written on the side of it	22:08
lcuk	CosmoHill, your town is proudly displayed via your IP address anyway	22:08
CosmoHill	oh btw my phone does have geo tagging, if I'd of used it the fire engine would be back at the station before I could take a picture	22:08
CosmoHill	lcuk: only to geeks	22:08
lcuk	CosmoHill, and nice ladies in website adverts	22:08
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CosmoHill	lol, I forget that there are adverts on the web	22:09
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CosmoHill	frak: you might want to look on the forums, I've not heard anyone mention nvidia in here in a while	22:10
lcuk	CosmoHill, anonymity online is hard	22:10
frak	CosmoHill: ok, thx	22:10
CosmoHill	thankfully the internet is full of idiots, just read any youtube video comment	22:10
lcuk	is the vega tablet nvidia?	22:10
lcuk	CosmoHill, youtube comments are not all bad	22:10
CosmoHill	it's like panning a sewage works for a small speckle of gold	22:11
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lcuk	CosmoHill, sewage works have automatic filters for that kind of stuff	22:12
lcuk	and it is rewarding too!	22:12
* CosmoHill just found a virus on his memory stick		22:12
lcuk	if you held it in your hands that is not unlikely :P	22:13
mikhas	harhar	22:13
lcuk	CosmoHill, which virus?	22:13
lcuk	is it a W32_ variant?	22:14
CosmoHill	I have E:/USBS/open.exe	22:14
CosmoHill	some kinda trogent	22:14
josu	asumisoikeus päättyy tässä	22:15
CosmoHill	windows can't see the USBS directory and mac can't delete it	22:15
CosmoHill	aparantly it was created when the laptop found the virus	22:16
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lcuk	CosmoHill, o_O	22:20
lcuk	DSC0000252 has picture of a train	22:20
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CosmoHill	what server was it on?	22:21
CosmoHill	lcuk: yeah, it's my electric train set	22:21
johd	what is a virus?	22:21
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lcuk	johd, it is an application to cleanout your windows PC and ensure that the network is running well	22:22
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CosmoHill	johd: something you get when you sleep around / share a USB stick	22:22
lcuk	by performing numerous tests on bandwidth	22:22
CosmoHill	lcuk: I had one that did that on my server :(	22:22
johd	ahh, now I remember	22:22
CosmoHill	one of the few times where having 300Mb/s wifi and 100Mb/s wired would have helped	22:23
johd	:)	22:23
lcuk	how is wifi faster than wired?	22:24
lcuk	that is like a break in the time/space continuum	22:24
* lcuk watches the [unnamedtown].mov movie		22:25
CosmoHill	no idea why there is a market place for it, on that's right, most people aren't that techy	22:25
lcuk	established in 1218!	22:25
* lcuk will visit WH Smith, H&M, Tie Rack and O2 :P		22:26
CosmoHill	lcuk: this is why anonymity on the internet isn't very high	22:26
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lcuk	CosmoHill, I remember [censoredtown] 123 :O	22:30
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lbt	kmem russian roulette: dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/kmem bs=1 count=1 seek=$RANDOM	22:36
CosmoHill	kernel memory?	22:36
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lbt	there's a chance it might not do anything bad	22:37
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lcuk	o_O	22:38
lcuk	lbt or not noticed until a long time after	22:38
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lbt	it's a drinking game ... you take it in turns on your N900 and the first one to crash .... wins	22:39
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dm8tbr	are you allowed to stress the device inbetween turns? to reach better 'excution coverage' ;)	22:40
lbt	costs you a round	22:40
* CosmoHill wonders what would happen if you use $USER		22:40
CosmoHill	would JJ fair better than Alexander?	22:41
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timeless_xchat	so, mIRGGI isn't very useful on the n8	23:00
timeless_xchat	it doesn't expect devices not to have a keyboard / keypad ...	23:00
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hobyrcc	#dclabs	23:02
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timeless_xchat	lcuk : it's the beginning of bug ping pong	23:14
lcuk	which bug?	23:14
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timeless_xchat	i should start a pool to see how many volleys this bug will get	23:14
timeless_xchat	sorry, walking up stairs atm	23:15
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lcuk	timeless_xchat, the one about qt-creator?	23:17
timeless_xchat	query: reporter contains timeless and assignee changed in the last 1d	23:17
lcuk	<lcuk> where is rst38h?	23:17
lcuk	<lcuk> hmm he normally has something to say about camera sensors	23:17
lcuk	\o	23:17
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lcuk	oh cripes, migueldeicaza thinks liqbase "looks like ass"	23:21
CosmoHill	did you draw an ass?	23:22
lcuk	no, I showed him a screenshot of liqbase running on n900 and ideapad	23:22
lcuk	after he was talking about patents and irrelevant software	23:22
w00t_	"you're supposed to comment on the software, not your reflection"	23:24
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lcuk	heh	23:24
* w00t_ is friendly, honest		23:24
lcuk	no woot, he actually said: "@lcuk Just because it looks like ass, does not make it not infringe "	23:24
w00t_	yes, i saw	23:25
* lcuk replied with honesty:		23:25
lcuk	The only patent it will infringe upon is a piece of paper on my wall. Other people can draw better than me. @migueldeicaza Oh,it's GPL btw	23:25
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lcuk	at least I am getting style advice from another OS leader :)	23:25
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lcuk	I should really add gnome to list of contributors grin ;) (actually real, I use gnome icon)	23:26
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* lcuk updated http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt to include "looks like ass" and gnome stuff :)		23:29
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* CosmoHill needs to update his backup stratagy		23:35
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ali1234	lcuk: miguel said liqbase looks like ass?	23:42
ali1234	reading scrollback... lulz	23:43
lcuk	yeah ali1234 :D	23:44
lcuk	I wonder what he will make of my giant clock	23:44
ali1234	i misread that	23:44
* lcuk ran it fullscreen on the big monitor earlier		23:44
CosmoHill	ali1234: everyone does	23:45
lcuk	that is half the fun ali1234 :)	23:45
CosmoHill	it's as if it was intentional...	23:45
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lcuk	CosmoHill, :O	23:46
lcuk	never	23:46
javispedro	where is that conversation?	23:46
* lcuk originally called it mywatch - but it works on more so is a clock :)		23:46
lcuk	javispedro, twitter	23:46
lcuk	between @lcuk and @migueldeicaza	23:46
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ali1234	how are you supposed to follow a conversation on twitter?	23:47
* javispedro is trying to discover exactly that, too		23:47
lcuk	ali1234, someone might be helpful and dig the related things from both side and paste here	23:48
javispedro	so far failing..	23:48
lcuk	I started to before but I am going showering	23:48
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javispedro	lcuk: did the entire thing happen today?	23:48
ali1234	lcuk: looks like you started it alright :)	23:49
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RST38h	evening, javispedro	23:51
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javispedro	hiya RST38h	23:51
RST38h	you cannot follow conversation in twitter, otherwise, they would call it irc.	23:51
CosmoHill	I thought twitter was just people's internal thoughts	23:52
ali1234	lcuk: you know, for someone who spends so much time drawing, "other people can draw better than me" isn't really that great an excuse...	23:52
javispedro	in fact from my short experience with twitter it does seem IRC.	23:52
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javispedro	it looks like a IRC where you can spam multiple channels at once (via hashtags).	23:52
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Tronic	RST38h: IRC message length is also around 460 characters but for both systems there are tools that can automatically split long messages into multiple posts.	23:53
timeless_w7ip	lcuk: probably bug 14792	23:54
_MeeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14792 nor, Undecided, ---, ossama.othman, NEW, contacts is misspelled in the contacts-sync README	23:54
timeless_w7ip	lcuk / et al, i think we need a "welcome to bugzilla, here is how to use it to deal w/ a bug"	23:55
RST38h	javispedro: Twitter is IRC where everyone has got his own channel!	23:55
timeless_w7ip	because people don't seem to understand how to <assign> a bug to themselves or how to resolve a bug as <fixed> :(	23:55
ali1234	here is how the convo might have looked if it took place on a sensible messaging system: http://pastebin.com/ecVyfrmf	23:56
lcuk	ali1234, :) but I cannot draw well, I make notes	23:56
lcuk	once I have note I try to code them to make then line up properly :)	23:57
lcuk	it took me a long time to actually be careful and neat enough to get handwriting just right.	23:58
ali1234	also the idea of "drawing" the UI of a tool and then having the computer make it work isn't new, in fact it is probably quite heavily patented	23:59
lcuk	timeless_w7ip, that bug	23:59
lcuk	it is marked fixed	23:59
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lcuk	ali1234, so find it	23:59
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* lcuk will not do the leg work		23:59
lcuk	everything from hello world up is	23:59

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