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| * w00t_ successfully fixes a stupid bug in meego-handset-email | 00:00 | |
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| npm | qgil: have you seen my QML eye-candy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peC-ABhDEMQ | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| npm | with special subliminal "finland rocks" theme | 00:04 |
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| qgil | npm: I note3d that - even if I don't share your musical tastes ;) I find the demo cool - wel done! | 00:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | thiago: sms(s) sent. please ack | 00:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | err, thiago_helsinki :) | 00:09 |
| qgil | thiago_helsinki ? can it be that he is sleeping? :) | 00:10 |
| w00t_ | thiago never sleeps | 00:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | qgil: well, i met up w/ him for dinner about half an hour ago | 00:10 |
| * w00t_ tries to come up with a suitable chuck norris joke involving thiago | 00:10 | |
| mikhas | you will fail | 00:11 |
| qgil | timeless_w7ip: "w7ip" stands for...? | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | windows 7 ideapad | 00:11 |
| javispedro | hah, yet another meegoer who thinks he might be using a windows phone ;) | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | the Dublin computer :) | 00:11 |
| npm | qgil: i'm changing it to one video per page which start/stop when you change the page... and it runs off a feed so i call it "feedbook" | 00:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | no, that'd be _wp7 | 00:12 |
| mikhas | that would the device reference though | 00:12 |
| npm | so no more demos consisting of H.I.M. videos :-) | 00:12 |
| mikhas | *miss | 00:12 |
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| qgil | npm: just sayin' | 00:12 |
| npm | :-) | 00:13 |
| mikhas | qgil, my current project is #meego-inputmethods | 00:13 |
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| qgil | H.I.M. = Hassleman's Input Methods? | 00:14 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Nice video. Was there any audio? | 00:14 |
| * gabrbedd didn't hear audio in video | 00:15 | |
| npm | yeah, it came out in a giant blorp at the end (recordmydesktop bug) | 00:15 |
| npm | oh wait... the first version with bad audio came out all green in youtube | 00:15 |
| npm | so i re-recorded in qmlviewer and it didn't have audio | 00:16 |
| gabrbedd | npm: ok, just checking. | 00:16 |
| npm | if i wanted to spend more time recording than coding, i'd have rewired phonon from qmlviewer into jack, and then recorded that w/ proper sync | 00:16 |
| gabrbedd | you lost me at phonon. | 00:17 |
| gabrbedd | :-p | 00:17 |
| npm | what you know jack :-) | 00:17 |
| npm | oh i recorded that on my desktop | 00:17 |
| npm | so phonon is available via kde | 00:17 |
| npm | (wish it were in meego ) | 00:18 |
| gabrbedd | AFAIK, adding a jack backend to phonon requires hacking qt... and phonon is deprecated, anyway. | 00:18 |
| thiago_helsinki | qgil: who's sleeping? | 00:19 |
| thiago_helsinki | timeless_w7ip: received | 00:19 |
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| thiago_helsinki | timeless_w7ip: do you know what time they open? | 00:19 |
| gabrbedd | that is... qt's phonon. | 00:19 |
| npm | gabrbedd: i don't think so... i have a jack backend to phonon on my desktop by default | 00:19 |
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| npm | it's one of the big advantages | 00:19 |
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| npm | you can bypass pulseaudio for specific apps and have them route straight to jack, or a specific device | 00:20 |
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| gabrbedd | npm: OK. it's still deprecated in Qt, though. | 00:22 |
| npm | i guess it's through gstreamer actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peC-ABhDEMQ | 00:22 |
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| npm | doh | 00:22 |
| npm | wrong link | 00:22 |
| npm | http://jackaudio.org/gstreamer_via_jack | 00:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | thiago: hrm | 00:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | offhand i suspect they're something like 9-1 | 00:23 |
| npm | and it's not really default as its part of "bad" plugins. | 00:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | yep | 00:24 |
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| npm | of course bad plugins are default for any system i use via https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14129 | 00:25 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug 14129 maj, Undecided, ---, yan.yin, NEW, DumbUser says "MeeGo is broken I can't watch my videos, hear my music, or receive podcasts and there | 00:25 |
| * timeless_w7ip ends up doing a lot of corporate stuff from home | 00:26 | |
| timeless_w7ip | the disadvantages of vpn access | 00:26 |
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| lcuk | anyone know why zypper would fail "cannot resolve host 'diwnload.meego.com'" yet from the same console I can ping that server | 00:34 |
| lcuk | download ^ | 00:34 |
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| mihero | zypper has some proxy settings? | 00:35 |
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| lcuk | i dunno | 00:35 |
| lcuk | this is the furthest I have gotten with usb networking | 00:35 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: I think some parts of RMC get redirected to DMC. | 00:37 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: Perhaps it's a part of the "planned outage" ? | 00:37 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, I can ping it | 00:37 |
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| lcuk | it responds | 00:37 |
| lcuk | at the very least it indicates zypper bug in the message | 00:38 |
| gabrbedd | erm... downtime is unrelated... | 00:38 |
| gabrbedd | Looks like the server is down... or pwn3d | 00:39 |
| gabrbedd | this doesn't look normal to me: http://download.meego.com/ | 00:39 |
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| lcuk | reasonable gabrbedd | 00:40 |
| gabrbedd | ...but I don't visit that page often... so dunno. | 00:40 |
| lcuk | shall take it that is what is happening the | 00:40 |
| lcuk | n | 00:40 |
| * lcuk mehs and carries on playing on netbook for a bit | 00:40 | |
| gabrbedd | Dawn's not here... so I'm guessing there's no hope and that the wheels are falling off. | 00:41 |
| lcuk | nahh the Intelians are i nthe hills | 00:42 |
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| qgil | mikhas: following the Tracker discussion in meego-dev - perhaps the Tracker upstream project could offer maintainers for the related packages? | 00:42 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: In a bomb-proof compound? | 00:42 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, camping | 00:42 |
| lcuk | or some such | 00:43 |
| mikhas | qgil, you mean take over neglected products in MeeGo? | 00:44 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: yep :-) | 00:44 |
| qgil | all in all it looks like Arjan & co are concerned about components "pushed by Nokia" in the past and without clear maintainership/future now but there are two main categories of those | 00:44 |
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| gabrbedd | qgil: Who should be notified if we think download.meego.com is down? | 00:44 |
| qgil | projects that are developed by Nokia alone, currently not used anywhere else, and upstream components used in other places etc etc (like Tracker) | 00:44 |
| qgil | gabrbedd: mrshaver but he is offline apparently - meego-community? | 00:45 |
| thiago_helsinki | tracker isn't the problem; it's the stuff that saves the data in tracker | 00:45 |
| gabrbedd | qgil: Thank you. | 00:47 |
| qgil | thiago_helsinki: as usual I don't even get into the technical details ;) What I mean is that now is a good time for many upstream projects to step in and propose to become maintainers of "their" packages, and establish a direct dialog with the MeeGo program | 00:47 |
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| mikhas | agree | 00:48 |
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| mikhas | it's just not a very motivating way to ask for that | 00:49 |
| qgil | mikhas: agree... and I don't have a better answer | 00:50 |
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| mikhas | all I can say is, as someone working on Harmattan, that the future for our product lies within MeeGo | 00:52 |
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| mikhas | but if the doors to get into MeeGo are suddenly closed, well, then you cannot really blame the Harmattan guys anymore. | 00:53 |
| mikhas | Not that anyone would really care about such details. | 00:53 |
| mikhas | But Harmattan != MeeGo became a self-fulfilling prophecy, sadly | 00:54 |
| mikhas | repeat it often enough, and people dont even try to change that any longer | 00:54 |
| mikhas | ("our product" = meego inputmethods, just to be clear) | 00:55 |
| mikhas | </opinion> | 00:55 |
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| lcuk | mikhas, why have the doors closed? | 00:59 |
| mikhas | for the H contacts team, they have | 01:00 |
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| mikhas | and well, I can read Arjan's reply to my API changes announcement as a threat, too, if I was in a bad mood | 01:00 |
| lcuk | So MeeGo is allowed to have multiple window managers, multiple toolkits, multiple misc components, but only 1 contact back end? | 01:01 |
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| mikhas | (context: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/481870.html) | 01:01 |
| lcuk | I read | 01:01 |
| qgil | mikhas: yes and yes but | 01:01 |
| mikhas | we are battered enough, we dont need more downers | 01:01 |
| qgil | mikhas: there is a lot of stress. the normal stress when final releases are approaching + the feb11 stress + the future stress... | 01:02 |
| lcuk | mikhas, fine, then let the rest of the contacts speak for you | 01:02 |
| mikhas | we will simply give up, that's it | 01:02 |
| qgil | mikhas: now, let's step back and let's look at the Linux & freedesktop standard stack | 01:02 |
| qgil | the one that was there before, and will be there after | 01:02 |
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| qgil | mikhas: do you think your project has a place there? y/n | 01:03 |
| qgil | if y, then the discussion of this week will be an anecdote | 01:03 |
| qgil | if n, then why bother | 01:03 |
| mikhas | yes, personally I am convinced of that | 01:03 |
| mikhas | but it takes *my* energy to make that true, eventually | 01:03 |
| lcuk | mikhas, and the energy of many people around here too | 01:04 |
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| lcuk | this week, I have seen more teamwork and actual progress on the public codestack than at any other time | 01:05 |
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| lcuk | in the #meego-arm channel people have been crosstalking on multiple subjects all day long | 01:05 |
| lcuk | real solid changes, from seeing the first high resolution smooth movie taken with the camera | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | through the harpfp builds working | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | mikhas, I have seen araujo and your maliit guys push through the VKB updates so now all applications on the n900 support it | 01:07 |
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| mikhas | lcuk, and do you think this happend because Nokia said we should do that? | 01:08 |
| lcuk | mikhas, it happened because we all got a kick up the backside. | 01:08 |
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| lcuk | Thomas Edison “Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress.” | 01:08 |
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| npm | lcuk: what hires movie w/ camera??? which release | 01:08 |
| npm | me want | 01:09 |
| lcuk | npm, hold on, it was a passing link | 01:09 |
| lcuk | the amount of activity has been staggering actually | 01:09 |
| lcuk | it has been hard to keep up | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | ahh I closed my browser | 01:10 |
| npm | lcuk: thx... must go now to pickup son from school | 01:10 |
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| lcuk | ask again tomorrow npm, someone will find it | 01:10 |
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| lcuk | evening anidel \o | 01:12 |
| lcuk | and rodarvus__ :) | 01:12 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: this sums up my feelings for my disseration / windows server | 01:13 |
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| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/Windows%20Server%202008-2011-03-09-23-11-13.png | 01:13 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, but Windows server is actually quite nice I believe? | 01:14 |
| lcuk | though that message annoyed me every time I had to fill it in | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | it doesn't like me | 01:14 |
| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: hahahaha! Love it! | 01:14 |
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| lcuk | did anyone by chance mirror the download.meego.com server? | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | I installed 2008 R2 to all the nodes only to find out it's formatted linux | 01:15 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: what file are you after? | 01:15 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, check the server.. | 01:15 |
| lcuk | http://download.meego.com/ | 01:16 |
| CosmoHill | oh | 01:16 |
| CosmoHill | where's the rest of it? | 01:16 |
| anidel | evening lcuk | 01:16 |
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| berndhs | lcuk: optimized out a lot of things ? | 01:17 |
| lcuk | haha | 01:17 |
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| lcuk | yeah, the meego build now fits on the rootfs again :P | 01:17 |
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| rodarvus | lcuk, hey there :) | 01:17 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/ | 01:19 |
| CosmoHill | have a rummage around there | 01:19 |
| * gabrbedd sent email to meego-community about DMC | 01:19 | |
| lcuk | oooh, you have an n8x0 folder | 01:19 |
| * lcuk gets quite a number of emails from n810 users | 01:20 | |
| CosmoHill | it's a copy of stuff from Stskeeps' server | 01:20 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, lol | 01:21 |
| lcuk | did you not copy his pron folder, or is it still copying? | 01:21 |
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| CosmoHill | said something about not being enough space | 01:22 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:22 |
| CosmoHill | with a n8x0, why would you need popcorn | 01:22 |
| lcuk | unfortunately though, I was looking for a package/repo cache/mirror | 01:22 |
| CosmoHill | oh, I should be getting a new casing for my phone tomorrow :) | 01:23 |
| lcuk | awesome | 01:24 |
| lcuk | titanium? | 01:24 |
| CosmoHill | that would be nice but also tempting to throw at people | 01:24 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:25 |
| lcuk | I watched a Magnum episode the other night, it had ninjas in. that show just gets more and more awesome. | 01:25 |
| CosmoHill | this is a major draw back of recieving bad news via text | 01:25 |
| lcuk | eek | 01:26 |
| CosmoHill | however the 6200 classic isn't that well built and would explain why the rear casing doesn't fit, the front is held on with tap and the select and exit keys are missing so I have to use my nails | 01:27 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, that phone sounds like my old car. | 01:28 |
| CosmoHill | don't get me started on the car | 01:28 |
| lcuk | haha | 01:28 |
| w00t_ | I used to have a metal phone case | 01:29 |
| w00t_ | worked great for when I dropped it etc | 01:29 |
| CosmoHill | when I say casing, I don't mean a protective casing to go around the phone | 01:29 |
| lcuk | ok CosmoHill - pics please. | 01:29 |
| CosmoHill | I mean the one that the PCB goes in] | 01:29 |
| lcuk | I have heard you mention this phone for ages | 01:29 |
| lcuk | but never seen it. | 01:30 |
| CosmoHill | hold on | 01:30 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, bug time? | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/phone-1.jpg | 01:35 |
| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/phone-2.jpg | 01:35 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, I think 495 geek just slashdotted your server | 01:36 |
| CosmoHill | what? | 01:36 |
| CosmoHill | it's only a P3 on a home connection, it will die | 01:36 |
| javispedro | call the fire brigade | 01:37 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:37 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, the faux tape sidegrips added by Nokia are interesting embelishments to the design | 01:37 |
| CosmoHill | damn thing holes the + button down | 01:38 |
| CosmoHill | holds* | 01:38 |
| qgil | CosmoHill: I just took a sample of your DNA from that pic | 01:38 |
| CosmoHill | don't say things like that, this years lectures have made me paranoid a bit | 01:39 |
| CosmoHill | I'll take a take the same pic tomorrow only with the new casing | 01:40 |
| CosmoHill | you can just see in the bottom right on the keypad that the back doesn't fit | 01:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Have you tried to hammer it on better? | 01:41 |
| CosmoHill | I've thrown it at the floor and smacked it on a few desks | 01:41 |
| lcuk | I feel quite convinced that would make matters worse. | 01:42 |
| CosmoHill | makes me feel better tho | 01:42 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:42 |
| CosmoHill | actually got a very nice depth of field in that pictures | 01:43 |
| lcuk | yes, you can clearly see from the top to the base of your fingerprint. | 01:44 |
| CosmoHill | not anymore you can't | 01:44 |
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| lcuk | lol | 01:45 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, I posted this after returning from FOSDEM | 01:46 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/20110206_005.jpg | 01:46 |
| lcuk | it is a little cup made with a reprap machine | 01:46 |
| lcuk | I took the closeup to see the detail left on the cup | 01:46 |
| CosmoHill | is that a cross between a printer and a glue gun? | 01:46 |
| lcuk | yes | 01:46 |
| lcuk | good description | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | my mum has a cuter which I call a printer that knifes things | 01:47 |
| lcuk | http://www.cakescookiesandcraftsshop.co.uk/acatalog/tall-penguin-cookie-cutter-.jpg | 01:48 |
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| CosmoHill | you know, if I gave my mum a picture of tux, she could cut it out in the colours and assemble it | 01:51 |
| lcuk | your mum is officially awesome then. | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | ooo oo, it's a SVG graphics too, that means it scales :D | 01:53 |
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| CosmoHill | she could use some white A3 has the base and have a massive tux on the front | 01:54 |
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| lcuk | lol CosmoHill | 01:56 |
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| lcuk | all this talk of cutout penguins reminds me of my mums at christmas a couple of years ago | 01:56 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.snowman.afro.20091225_017.jpg | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | hehe that's awesome | 01:57 |
| lcuk | the afro is santas beard | 01:57 |
| CosmoHill | I'm trying to work out if they are eatable | 01:57 |
| lcuk | they were jelly things, but did not try | 01:57 |
| lcuk | we were screwing round with them all night | 01:58 |
| lcuk | she had put them up everywhere | 01:58 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.christmas.anagram.20091225_018.jpg | 01:58 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 01:59 |
| lcuk | before I left that night, I went around the house and put them all over | 01:59 |
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| lcuk | we found one recently and giggled ;) | 01:59 |
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| CosmoHill | oh I see the bear in the picture, makes more sense now | 02:01 |
| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/73k-tachometer.jpg | 02:01 |
| CosmoHill | I have a nice habit of looking down and there being something nice on the dial, like 111 | 02:02 |
| lcuk | hah | 02:04 |
| lcuk | i think my old car got over 100k miles | 02:04 |
| CosmoHill | it has 76K atm | 02:04 |
| CosmoHill | my friend has 120K on a 2003 focus :/ | 02:04 |
| lcuk | hh | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | my other friend had 200K on their old pug | 02:05 |
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| CosmoHill | my car has done....64K over 14 years | 02:07 |
| CosmoHill | every time I top up petrol has increased in price :( | 02:09 |
| lcuk | 0.521508136 mph | 02:10 |
| CosmoHill | faster than my love life | 02:10 |
| lcuk | are you sure you put the handbrake on. | 02:10 |
| CosmoHill | I once managed to put my car fully into reverse without using the clutch, if the handbrake wasn't on I'd of had movement | 02:11 |
| CosmoHill | instead of lurked and stalled | 02:11 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, I slipped a disk once and had to drive without clutch | 02:11 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, doable but hard | 02:12 |
| CosmoHill | kudos tho | 02:12 |
| lcuk | heh | 02:13 |
| CosmoHill | I was did an emergency stop and got overtaken by a BMW within seconds -.- | 02:13 |
| CosmoHill | once* | 02:13 |
| lcuk | eep | 02:13 |
| lcuk | at least they missed you | 02:13 |
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| lcuk | anyway, gnite CosmoHill \o | 02:15 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:15 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 02:40 |
| berndhs | night | 02:41 |
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| TSCHAKeee | are there any kernel module package rpms in meego? | 03:20 |
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| TSCHAKeee | %kernel_module_package macro doesn't work here | 03:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | sure wish you fuckers would actually standardize on SPEC file tags | 03:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | would be nice | 03:20 |
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| TSCHAKeee | aaarrrgggghhhhh | 03:52 |
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| vgrade | TSCHAKeee, evening | 03:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | hey | 03:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | am trying to buid broadcom sta as an RPM | 03:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | and ready to jump out a window | 03:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | is there an existing src.rpm of a kernel module that can be used? | 03:59 |
| vgrade | I thought that was you falling :) | 03:59 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it's the only thing left for me to do to get the archos 9 target working | 03:59 |
| vgrade | from day 1 MeeGo architecturally has not allowed kernel modules | 03:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | fuck | 03:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | what the hell am I supposed to do? | 03:59 |
| vgrade | don't shoot the messenger | 03:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | i need working broadcom support | 04:00 |
| vgrade | have you seen slaines page? | 04:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | with the old module? I'm not even sure that will work anymore | 04:01 |
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| vgrade | I was just pointing to that so you could use the procedure | 04:02 |
| vgrade | http://slaine.org/_slaine/Software.html | 04:02 |
| vgrade | http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-packaging@meego.com/msg00592.html | 04:06 |
| vgrade | http://wiki.meego.com/Tips_on_compiling_and_packaging_kernels_in_MeeGo | 04:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | really that is insanely unrealistic to not allow this. | 04:09 |
| vgrade | Don't know enough to comment why Arjan does not want ko's on Meego | 04:12 |
| vgrade | You should be able to build on the device though | 04:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | not good enough | 04:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | but i'll deal with it | 04:16 |
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| vgrade | http://dev.openaos.org/browser/trunk/meego/archos9/src?rev=338, here you go :) | 04:17 |
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| TSCHAKeee | got it built | 04:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | HA | 04:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | thank you arbitrarily decided decision for wasting 6 hours of my life | 04:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | thanks | 04:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 04:33 |
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| jyaworski | Has anyone had luck installing meego on an ASUS 1012? | 04:34 |
| jyaworski | It gets to the boot screen. Going past that, the screen goes blank. | 04:35 |
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| wmarone | wow | 07:05 |
| wmarone | serious spam on the meego forum | 07:05 |
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| dragan | anyone working on something along the lines of http://rtc-web.alvestrand.com/ in meego? | 07:09 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:36 |
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| MrPPS_ | hey all, I was brought to the moblin site by intel, and the meego site by moblin - looking for graphics drivers for the Intel 3150 - do you provide these outside of the distro, or only through the distro itself? | 07:38 |
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| thiago_helsinki | 3150, is that the one on the Atom N450? | 07:46 |
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| MrPPS_ | it's the one with the n%%) | 08:07 |
| MrPPS_ | N550 * | 08:07 |
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| RST38h | moorning, too | 11:08 |
| timeless_xchat | moooooo | 11:08 |
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| raster | RST38h: booja | 11:21 |
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| RST38h | raster: yoohoo | 11:21 |
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| raster | RST38h: mrlrmrlmrl | 11:23 |
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| RST38h | urlurlurl seems to be more appropriate... | 11:27 |
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| wazd | hello all :) | 11:57 |
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| RST38h | heya wazd, how are things? | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 11:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: not yet planning to extend OMWeather into other types of applets? | 11:58 |
| vasvlad | RST38h: what did you mean other types of applets? | 12:00 |
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| wazd | RST38h: ask my master :D | 12:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yess, Igor! | 12:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: but imo we can do it, but using different name | 12:05 |
| RST38h | vasvlad: Given how well omweather works, it may be worth to create a few other applets: CPU temperature, stocks, email counters, etc | 12:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: of course, they won't be about the weather any more | 12:06 |
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| Stephen512 | Hi. | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | hi | 12:42 |
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| Stephen512 | I'd like to make a feature request. | 12:43 |
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| Stskeeps | there's a good features process for this :) | 12:44 |
| Stephen512 | Really where? | 12:44 |
| Alps | lbt, how can I access meego | 12:44 |
| Stephen512 | I've obviously come to the right place ;) | 12:44 |
| Alps | obs? | 12:44 |
| Alps | How can I access obs of meego? | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | Stephen512: http://meego.com/developers/requirements | 12:45 |
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| Stephen512 | Thanks. | 12:45 |
| lbt | Alps: so... are you developing opensource apps for meego ? | 12:45 |
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| Stephen512 | I'll be off then. | 12:47 |
| lbt | Alps: Ok - ping me when you're back | 12:47 |
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| lcuk2 | ok, is it just me - or did we just have someone wander by and miss a chance to engage user about a feature? | 12:48 |
| lcuk2 | I get stopped in the street by people who offer features and write every one down | 12:48 |
| * lcuk2 wonders what he was going to say | 12:51 | |
| lcuk2 | morning Stskeeps, lbt \o | 12:51 |
| lbt | hey lcuk2 | 12:52 |
| Alps | yes | 12:52 |
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| Alps | I'll try to customize the meego kernel. | 12:52 |
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| Alps | and build by myself | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: # | 12:53 |
| RST38h | # | 12:53 |
| RST38h | Nintendo can remotely brick your 3DS after flash | 12:53 |
| lbt | Alps: OK | 12:53 |
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| lbt | Alps: what's your meego.com account ? | 12:53 |
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| Alps | alpsxing | 12:53 |
| lbt | done | 12:53 |
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| Alps | thanks. | 12:53 |
| jonnor | MrPPS_: GMA3150 is supported by the standard xf86-video-intel driver (and KMS in the kernel). It is available in practically every distro, or you can get it from upstream (x.org) | 12:54 |
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| Alps | hi,lbt, i cannot login build.meego.com by alpsxing | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | Alps: build.pub.meego.com | 12:55 |
| * lbt raises priority of "MeeGo OBS overview page" in his todo | 12:57 | |
| Alps | thanks, stskeeps | 12:58 |
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| Moystard | hello everyone | 13:53 |
| lcuk | ~seen everyone | 13:53 |
| infobot | everyone <~Tom@CPE-121-216-246-148.lnse3.ken.bigpond.net.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 243d 22h 52m 42s ago, saying: 'we'd love to donate time maul'. | 13:53 |
| lcuk | hi Moystard \o | 13:53 |
| Moystard | I have a question for you guys :D | 13:54 |
| Moystard | I know that MeeGo 1.2 is in development. I would like to build an image from the sources and execute it (I am in reality interested by MeeGo IVI). Is it possible to do so? | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | in fact, you should build from the binary packages | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | repo.meego.com :) | 13:55 |
| Moystard | so the last version for now is the 1.1.90 | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | right | 13:57 |
| Moystard | oh okay I don't even to build it as images are already available for each build... | 13:57 |
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| Moystard | even have to * | 13:57 |
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| Moystard | thank you, I'll run it to see the improvements and new features :) | 13:59 |
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| * aloisiojr #nfc-temp | 14:06 | |
| jato | Hello | 14:07 |
| jato | Are there netbook .raw images available that I can chroot into? | 14:08 |
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| chinmaya | anyone from Ixonos , Helsinki in this channel ? | 14:18 |
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| lcuk | chinmaya, what would they be doing here, there are many side channels around meego | 14:20 |
| lcuk | and not everyone is watching all of the channels | 14:20 |
| iekku | chinmaya, why are you asking that? | 14:20 |
| chinmaya | lcuk: bcoz they have meego developers , might be online in this channel | 14:20 |
| lcuk | chinmaya, yes, which area of meego are they working on? | 14:21 |
| iekku | chinmaya, they have them also in tampere and oulu :D | 14:21 |
| chinmaya | also in helsinki | 14:21 |
| lcuk | for instance, there are a record number people in #meego-arm right now, some of whom are not in this channel | 14:21 |
| iekku | moving this conversation to privat | 14:22 |
| chinmaya | okie | 14:22 |
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| araujo | morning | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | \o araujo, thiago_helsinki | 14:26 |
| araujo | :) | 14:26 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: Regarding download.meego.com, the Intelians are saying "WORKSFORME" | 14:54 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, yeah | 14:54 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: So, maybe it's a bug. | 14:54 |
| lcuk | it does work for them because the repositories on netbook do not use that server | 14:55 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: i don't remember, did we try `zypper clean --all` ? | 14:55 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, I did a zypper clean, will boot now and try --all | 14:56 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: Anyway, you'll need to give them more specifics on your setup in order to get it resolved. | 14:56 |
| lcuk | (I know netbook is ok, because I stepped through the actions I was going to do on N900 using my ideapad | 14:56 |
| lcuk | sure | 14:57 |
| gabrbedd | Well, I'm running Handset builds on the netbook... and I couldn't reproduce it, either. | 14:57 |
| gabrbedd | Were you just doing `zypper refresh` ? | 14:58 |
| lcuk | yeah, hold on meego just booting on my n900 | 14:58 |
| lcuk | I will get network working and confirm everything in a documented bug | 14:58 |
| lcuk | if reqd | 14:58 |
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| gabrbedd | Well, if `zypper clean --all` fixes it... we're having to do that /way/ too often. | 15:00 |
| * lcuk nods | 15:00 | |
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| lcuk | and this is from a clean flash | 15:00 |
| gabrbedd | I've been on the look-out for the next time something like this happens (on my machines) so that I can find the cause. | 15:00 |
| lcuk | so there should not be anything in there cached | 15:00 |
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| gabrbedd | Well, it's possible that mic2 doesn't clean the cache after installing the image... | 15:01 |
| gabrbedd | And anaconda is doing some kind of simple copy/paste to install. | 15:02 |
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| * gabrbedd is getting in the shower. | 15:03 | |
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| luist | what should i add to suders to allow every user to run an specific command without password? | 15:10 |
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| kedz | lucian1, user ALL = NOPASSWD: /yourcommand * | 15:13 |
| kedz | ouch luist ^ | 15:13 |
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| luist | user means all users or i have to specify? | 15:14 |
| kedz | luist, hm... maybe i was too quick.. lemme check this | 15:14 |
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| kedz | luist, yes it seems yes... or you can use group instead of user name | 15:15 |
| luist | kdez: how would it be with group? | 15:16 |
| kedz | lucian1, %users ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/somecommand * | 15:16 |
| kedz | luist, ^ sorry lucian1 :-S | 15:16 |
| luist | kedz: oh that seems good.. thanks | 15:16 |
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| lucian1 | kedz: no worries ;) | 15:17 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, http://pastebin.com/idF96xM4 | 15:17 |
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| lcuk | That is the MeeGo on N900 Zypper refresh failure log ^ | 15:18 |
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| * gabrbedd forwarding pastebin to jukka | 15:20 | |
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| * gabrbedd would CC lcuk on the e-mail if he had lcuk's addy. | 15:24 | |
| lcuk | liquid@gmail.com around meego bugzilla | 15:24 |
| lcuk | I will file a bug with that log in it | 15:24 |
| lcuk | it is simpler | 15:24 |
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| gabrbedd | ok. Let me know the bug # when you do. | 15:26 |
| gabrbedd | Meanwhile, I sent them the pastebin link. | 15:26 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, jukka, bug 14337 | 15:28 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14337 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, MeeGo on N900 Zypper refresh failure | 15:28 |
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| gabrbedd | thanks. | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | remove 127.0.0.1 from top if you have no active connection with connman | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | and no, usb networking doesn't count | 15:29 |
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| lcuk | just following instructions! | 15:30 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Tips_and_Tricks/N900_USB_Networking#Setting_up_default_route_and_DNS_settings | 15:30 |
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| Stskeeps | now it doesn't | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:31 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, !!! | 15:31 |
| lcuk | but I can ping the hosts | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but for some reason you hit the round-robin and 127.0.0.1 says "no, that host doesn't exist, nanana" | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:32 |
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| lcuk | well I have always been stuck with my software on its own machine | 15:33 |
| * lcuk does not really mind so much | 15:33 | |
| lcuk | lemme try removing the 127.0.0.1 and see if it works | 15:33 |
| lcuk | :O ooooooh | 15:34 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, :D you genius! | 15:34 |
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| ali1234 | oh, that whole nameserver on localhost thing is still causing problems eh? | 15:38 |
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| lcuk | fastest fix in the west, bug 14337 sorted. | 15:40 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14337 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, RESO FIXED, MeeGo on N900 Zypper refresh failure | 15:40 |
| ali1234 | this bug is really old | 15:41 |
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| ali1234 | you haven't actually fixed it, you've just worked around the problem | 15:43 |
| lcuk | ali1234, well reopen it and find a different way | 15:44 |
| lcuk | but since the instructions have been modified, others using usb ntworking on their n900 might have a tiny bit easier ride | 15:44 |
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| ali1234 | those instructions still make me lol | 15:45 |
| ali1234 | talk about the most overcomplicated way to achieve what you want | 15:45 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, yes | 15:46 |
| lcuk | but I cannot get my wifi working on n900 yet | 15:46 |
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| lcuk | the configurator is not complex enough for me to enter dns and gateway and ip etc that I could find | 15:46 |
| ali1234 | so why don't you use dhcp? | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: pretty much from the maemo.org usb networking page | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: lcuk doesn't believe in anything but adhoc and static ips ;) | 15:47 |
| ali1234 | once again, this is how you set up usb networking on ubuntu: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/htc/Screenshot-6.png | 15:47 |
| ali1234 | if this doesn't work, it's a bug in meego ^ | 15:47 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, that dialog does not exist in meego :P | 15:48 |
| ali1234 | this is how you set it up in ubuntu | 15:48 |
| ali1234 | then you plug in the meego device and it automatically configures on dhcp | 15:48 |
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| ali1234 | basically the image replaces all this (none of which should be necessary): http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Tips_and_Tricks/N900_USB_Networking#Automatic_configuration_with_Ubuntu_9.10_and_10.04 | 15:49 |
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| _kristianm | hi, can anyone explain the difference between Qt Quick and QML to me? - is there a definition of Qt Quick? - is it a special branch, a version number, a set of features, or just a marketing term? | 15:51 |
| ali1234 | it's a marketing term | 15:51 |
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| Moystard | I got MeeGo IVI running, it is still quite buggy but some improvements have been made since the 1.1 version | 15:54 |
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| toninikk1nen | _kristianm: I believe the idea is that Qt Quick is the name for the combination of QML + QML Designer | 15:55 |
| mihero | qt quick includes also qt side | 15:55 |
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| lcuk | haha http://dailyqt.crossmap.com/ | 15:56 |
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| mihero | so qt quick means short psalm from bible?:) | 15:58 |
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| lcuk | no, I saw something this morning about 13 things cool about Qt | 15:59 |
| _kristianm | mihero you mean pyside? *qt side google* | 15:59 |
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| lcuk | and one of them was the backronym | 15:59 |
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| lcuk | [Bonus tip: Qt Quick stands for “Qt User Interface Creation Kit]. | 16:00 |
| * lcuk thought that was nifty | 16:00 | |
| lcuk | http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/03/10/reasons-to-get-stuck-on-qt-a-bakers-dozen/?sf1168252=1 | 16:00 |
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| ali1234 | is pyside really new? i thought it was available for years? | 16:03 |
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| ahiemstra | lcuk: too bad that becomes "qt qt user interface creation kit" everywhere then... | 16:07 |
| lcuk | ahiemstra, shh :P | 16:07 |
| ali1234 | what i want to know is how can i use qt quick without having to write any of that ugly javascript? | 16:07 |
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| lcuk | does Qml use only javascript, or is it EMCA script or whatever and has potential to use an alternative engine ? | 16:08 |
| ali1234 | javascript and ecmascript are the same thing | 16:08 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: you can't | 16:09 |
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| ali1234 | ahiemstra: why not? | 16:09 |
| ali1234 | can't i just declare the same objects in C++ code? | 16:10 |
| ali1234 | and add them to a QGraphicsView or whatever? | 16:10 |
| ahiemstra | no | 16:10 |
| ahiemstra | all the qml elements are private implementations and not exposed to c++ | 16:10 |
| ali1234 | great | 16:11 |
| ali1234 | what if i want to subclass them? | 16:11 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: you can't do that either | 16:12 |
| ahiemstra | and yes, that is incredibly annoying | 16:12 |
| lcuk | ahiemstra, ? | 16:12 |
| ali1234 | seems pretty useless then | 16:12 |
| lcuk | I thought QML was able to be recursed and enumerated and stuff | 16:13 |
| ali1234 | what is the benefit of QML over HTML5 then? | 16:13 |
| lcuk | and had a DOM and introspection capabilities | 16:13 |
| toninikk1nen | um... you subclass QML elements in QML just fine | 16:13 |
| ahiemstra | toninikk1nen: yes, in qml | 16:13 |
| ahiemstra | not in c++ | 16:13 |
| ali1234 | i want to sublass them in C++ | 16:13 |
| ali1234 | i want to write as little javascript as possible | 16:14 |
| ali1234 | because javascript is a horrible ugly and slow language | 16:14 |
| toninikk1nen | you can use javascript in a minimum way just to glue things together and the rest in c++... | 16:14 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: the biggest benefit, in my opinion, is a way cleaner api and much more direct c++ data binding | 16:14 |
| lcuk | ali1234 meant "Because javascript is not as optimal as certain other binary compiled language offerings" | 16:14 |
| toninikk1nen | yes, like sharing the sama data model btw. qml and c++ is prett nifty | 16:15 |
| ali1234 | toninikk1nen: but if i do that, i have to write all my QML objects in C++ from scratch? because i can't just subclass QML's Rectangle for example | 16:15 |
| Tronic | ali1234: Not fully true. V8 is rather fast and the language is also actually pretty nice if you just use it right (the same as C++). | 16:15 |
| toninikk1nen | you subclass QML's rectangle in QML and glue that to c++ | 16:15 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: you could encapsulate the qml objects instead of extending them | 16:16 |
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| toninikk1nen | just use it for a day or two and it will feel much clearer... | 16:16 |
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| ali1234 | here is an example: http://pastebin.com/pXPgpYXn | 16:18 |
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| ali1234 | how would i do this if my UI was written in QML? | 16:18 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: use a c++ model to provide the data and use that in the qml | 16:20 |
| ali1234 | i already do that | 16:20 |
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| ali1234 | the point is that with this code i do not have to rewrite the UI when the datamodel changes | 16:20 |
| ali1234 | so how would QML make this simpler? | 16:21 |
| ahiemstra | qml responds to data changes | 16:21 |
| ali1234 | seems like i would have to define another model for the QML, and then keep them in sync by hand | 16:21 |
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| ali1234 | that's extra work not less | 16:21 |
| ali1234 | i don't think you understand what the code example does... | 16:22 |
| ali1234 | it's building a UI dynamically at runtime depending on the properties available on an arbitrary QObject | 16:22 |
| ahiemstra | no, I don't really | 16:22 |
| ahiemstra | what is the ui supposed to look like? | 16:22 |
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| ali1234 | a bunch of sliders | 16:23 |
| ali1234 | and colour choosers | 16:23 |
| toninikk1nen | in QML you start from the direction of how the UI should look and behave, not from the direction of autogenerating based on whatever happens to be in a data model | 16:23 |
| ali1234 | well, i know how the UI should look. it should provide methods for changing the properties of an arbitrary object :) | 16:23 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: well, in this case you'd need to reimplement that method in qml | 16:24 |
| ahiemstra | at least, that would be the easiest solution | 16:24 |
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| ahiemstra | either that, or a (relatively simple) data model for the display data | 16:27 |
| ali1234 | are you familiar with phpmyadmin? | 16:27 |
| ahiemstra | yeah, though not on the code level | 16:28 |
| ali1234 | but you know what it does right? it looks at the database model, and then generates a UI to edit the data | 16:28 |
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| ali1234 | imagine trying to write phpmyadmin with QML for the UI | 16:28 |
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| ahiemstra | hmm, I think that, while it would be quite a bit of work, it would probably be quite doable | 16:30 |
| ahiemstra | in fact, i'd most likely also use data models for a pure c++ ui for it :p | 16:31 |
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| ali1234 | but the question is, would it be easier or harder than doing it in QWidgets? | 16:31 |
| berndhs | you could generate chunks of QML from c++ and execute those | 16:31 |
| ali1234 | lol | 16:31 |
| ali1234 | now we enter the realm of "nasty hacks to make it work" | 16:31 |
| ahiemstra | :D | 16:31 |
| berndhs | that's not a hack | 16:31 |
| ali1234 | i'd just end up writing a C++ -> javascript translator | 16:32 |
| lcuk | berndhs, or you could call to the shell to run pyside to generate some qml which then get instantiated | 16:32 |
| ali1234 | all so i can use this language which is supposed to make everything easier | 16:32 |
| berndhs | if you want a QML element that depends on the content of your data model, generate the elements | 16:32 |
| lbt | goddam idiot users | 16:32 |
| toninikk1nen | maybe you could use Repeater http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-repeater.html | 16:32 |
| * lcuk slides beer over | 16:32 | |
| lcuk | what is up lbt ? | 16:32 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: well, one thing I think would be way easier in qml is the delegates for the table overview and table data overview pages | 16:32 |
| * lbt quaffs | 16:32 | |
| berndhs | oh its not easy, no, but its not a hack | 16:32 |
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| lbt | lcuk: just users who are incapable of reading.... and then tell you how important their time is ;) | 16:33 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: considering most of what phpmyadmin does is data views with some actions, I would say it is easier in qml actually | 16:34 |
| toninikk1nen | ...and place the magic needed for your case in delegate of the repeater | 16:34 |
| ali1234 | so i could make a model that models the model, and then delegate it's operation back to C++ code | 16:34 |
| ahiemstra | yep | 16:34 |
| ali1234 | it just all sounds like yet more work | 16:34 |
| berndhs | analogous to what PHP does, generate HTML and CSS on the fly | 16:35 |
| toninikk1nen | or you could bite the javascript hate and do it in js ;) it's not too bad as long as oyu use it for simple logic, calling methods etc. | 16:35 |
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| ahiemstra | ali1234: well, as I said, if I were doing phpmyadmin in qt i would have those models anyway | 16:35 |
| ali1234 | sure, you already have the QSql stuff | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | lbt yes, but that is a human condition | 16:36 |
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| ahiemstra | the difference with widgets is that I would be exposing the models to qml and using qml listviews + delegates instead of widget based listviews + delegates | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | lbt, try using parchment rolls with a wax seal, I bet they would read it then! | 16:37 |
| lbt | lcuk: I'm still being polite... just | 16:37 |
| lbt | especially since I can't point to a decent wiki page.... | 16:37 |
| lbt | which is my bad | 16:37 |
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| lbt | just booked flights+hotel for meego.fi though \o/ | 16:38 |
| lbt | so I should write something now | 16:38 |
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| kyb3R | lbt: great! | 16:38 |
| lbt | found uber-cheap flight .... but all hotels are full :( | 16:39 |
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| * lcuk has not even got a ticket yet | 16:39 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i ended up paying 100eur/night | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | you? | 16:39 |
| kyb3R | true, there happens to be some other events at the same time | 16:39 |
| ali1234 | so how do i get from a QObject to a model? | 16:39 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: yep - "Homeland" | 16:39 |
| ali1234 | i guess i use something like the code snippet to build the model | 16:40 |
| lbt | although..... Stskeeps.... where are you? and do they have twin rooms ? | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: good question, sec.. | 16:40 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: that's a different story but yeah, something like that code to add elements to a model | 16:40 |
| ali1234 | so my C++ code gets more complex, and i also have to write a bunch of javascript on top | 16:40 |
| ali1234 | how is this "quick" again? | 16:41 |
| lbt | ali1234: hehe | 16:41 |
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| jonnor | ali1234: never believe marketing | 16:41 |
| ali1234 | i don't :) | 16:41 |
| ahiemstra | ali1234: well I don't think they had this use case in mind for it :) | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: scandic tampere city | 16:41 |
| berndhs | javascript is just as fast as c++ in free fall :) | 16:42 |
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| TiXeY[away] | Yop All. | 16:46 |
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| toninikk1nen | what, oulu hotels full already ? | 16:47 |
| toninikk1nen | or was that about tampere ? | 16:48 |
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| xik | target: sony weapon: LOIC hive: loic.anonops.in port: 6667 chan: #loic | 16:53 |
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| Stskeeps | ... | 16:53 |
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| ScriptRipper | Hi Stskeeps, I have a fix for chrome-meego-plugins package to build on ARM | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | i can help upload that if you need | 17:15 |
| ScriptRipper | I sent you a diff of the package | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:16 |
| ScriptRipper | or I branch it in meego.com OBS and submit it.... | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | well, one or the other works | 17:16 |
| ScriptRipper | wrt to chromium in general, do we stay with the very old version in Trunk ? | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | What happened with courgette in chromium? | 17:18 |
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| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: not sure | 17:19 |
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| mikhas | pvanhoof, INSERT OR REPLACE? Why not UPSERT ;-) | 17:31 |
| mikhas | although, the former is nicely explicit. the latter is most likely better known | 17:32 |
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| * lcuk tests installing stuff on n900 | 17:35 | |
| lcuk | :O cannot install git on n900 | 17:36 |
| lcuk | Problem: nothing provides perl(Error) needed by git-1.7.2.2-2.27.armv7l | 17:36 |
| gabrbedd | mikhas: Isn't UPSERT a DB-specific extension? | 17:37 |
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| pvanhoof | miksuh, UPSERT? :) | 17:40 |
| pvanhoof | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsert | 17:41 |
| pvanhoof | ah yes | 17:41 |
| pvanhoof | look at that, first time I hear about this | 17:41 |
| pvanhoof | Well it's not in master yet, so maybe we will use UPSERT :) | 17:41 |
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| pvanhoof | Problem with upsert is just like insert-or-replace that it doesn't differentiate between single-value and multi-value, while in RDF-world those two are different (and yet aren't different) | 17:43 |
| pavlix | I have problems installing mx-devel and clutter-gst-devel on meego 1.0 because of newer versions of gst-plugins-good-devel (and another package) installed in the system, what may be wrong? | 17:43 |
| pvanhoof | Update is more about rows, in rdf you don't really have rows | 17:43 |
| lcuk | bug 14340 | 17:44 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14340 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, Cannot install git on N900 | 17:44 |
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| gabrbedd | So maybe... TUPSERT ?? | 17:46 |
| gabrbedd | :-p | 17:46 |
| pvanhoof | Heh, tupsert stands for? Tuple insrt? | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | Triple update or isnert | 17:47 |
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| gabrbedd | TUPLE UPDATE OR REPLACE | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | Well it's insert or replace, insert in case of multivalue and replace in case of single value | 17:48 |
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| pvanhoof | As insert in rdf can mean append | 17:48 |
| pvanhoof | I know it's all a bit confusing for relational database ppl :) | 17:48 |
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| berndhs | ~seen alterego | 18:11 |
| infobot | alterego is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 27 messages. Is idling for 6h 15m 53s, last said: 'RST38h: but Nokia already folded :P'. | 18:11 |
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| thomasjfox | hey there. I tried running a meego image in qemu | 18:21 |
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| thomasjfox | All I get is a "Starting meego" message for a very short time and after that I just see a silver white screen and nothing happens | 18:22 |
| thomasjfox | I tried the handset ia32 and netbootk ia32 image | 18:22 |
| thomasjfox | OpenGL hardware acceleration is provided | 18:22 |
| dm8tbr | try to get into the boot menu and disable silent | 18:22 |
| thomasjfox | dm8tbr: Which key accesses the menu? It seems really fast to me | 18:23 |
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| dm8tbr | I think tab | 18:23 |
| * thomasjfox tries | 18:23 | |
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| thomasjfox | dm8tbr: Jackpot! | 18:24 |
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| thomasjfox | It loads the kernel and then stalls | 18:24 |
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| Ulf | Hi | 18:26 |
| thomasjfox | Maybe the qemu version from Fedora 14 is not compatible | 18:26 |
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| *** Guest76880 is now known as Ulf^ | 18:26 | |
| Stskeeps | morn Ulf^ | 18:27 |
| Ulf^ | Hi Stskeeps! | 18:27 |
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| alterego | berndhs: you rang? | 18:28 |
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| berndhs | alterego: yes wondering if you want to chat about revolutionary UI stuff :) | 18:35 |
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| thomasjfox | yeah, meego is running using the qemu version supplied with madde | 18:41 |
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| thomasjfox | Time for some rockbox porting ;) | 18:41 |
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| Ulf^ | kaitlin__, Do you know anything about sensor orientation being borked in the QML images? | 18:49 |
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| thomasjfox | Ulf^: You mean like the screen is rotated in a way the user doesn't expect it (f.e. on top)? | 18:50 |
| alterego | berndhs: sure :) | 18:50 |
| alterego | berndhs: here? :) | 18:50 |
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| thomasjfox | Ulf^: Happened to me yesterday when trying meego on the n900 | 18:50 |
| Ulf^ | thomasjfox, wrong window, but yes, that too ;) | 18:50 |
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| berndhs | alterego: im here | 18:55 |
| berndhs | we can chat here or in more private | 18:56 |
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| alterego | Well, maybe here, if we're not completely off topic, as long as the conversation is interesting it might attract more people :) | 18:57 |
| alterego | So, what's on your mind then? | 18:57 |
| berndhs | ok lets start here, we can always move | 18:57 |
| berndhs | what i'm after is makeing the programming effort for multiple screen sizes managable | 18:58 |
| berndhs | with current methods, you write 1 app for phones, then basically 1 app for tablet, 1 for desktop | 18:58 |
| berndhs | too much work | 18:58 |
| berndhs | i want to do 1 + 0.1 + 0.1 | 18:58 |
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| alterego | Are we talking in general or a specific set of tools, say, Qml or Qt etc? | 18:59 |
| berndhs | in general, but I want to start with QML/Qt | 18:59 |
| berndhs | for convenience | 18:59 |
| alterego | The paradigms should should translate to web/html5 also anyway :) | 18:59 |
| berndhs | right | 18:59 |
| berndhs | if its done right, it shouldn't matter a great deal | 19:00 |
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| berndhs | the reasons I asked for collaborators is that i'm an engineer, and this also needs a designer | 19:01 |
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| berndhs | toothbrushes and coffee machines are designed | 19:01 |
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| berndhs | and this is in part that kind of design | 19:01 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: what about sending the N900 adaptation summaries to meego-handset to have eveything N900 there? | 19:02 |
| berndhs | but other kinds of collaborators are welcome of course, just have to keep in mind the design part | 19:02 |
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| qgil | Stskeeps: those summaries are useful for N900 MeeGo testers that otherwise might feel overwhelmed by the meego-dev topics and traffic | 19:03 |
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| alterego | Sure, well I'm a programmer but I like to think I have a good sense of aesthetic also. And I have quite a lot of experience using various technologies when developing UI/UXs | 19:04 |
| berndhs | its about artistic and ergonomic aspects | 19:04 |
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| alterego | I think UIs that flow, maybe even similar to how WP7 moves about are an interesting paradigm | 19:05 |
| berndhs | yes | 19:05 |
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| berndhs | I think looking at the UI as a HUD is also useful | 19:05 |
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| alterego | Yes, | 19:06 |
| berndhs | away from the old style bunch of panels | 19:06 |
| alterego | More toward widgets? | 19:06 |
| berndhs | well, concentrate on delivering the content | 19:06 |
| alterego | It'll be interesting to see how scalable the tablet UX is | 19:06 |
| berndhs | and showing control elements only as necessary | 19:06 |
| berndhs | some things between tablets and desktops can just be scaled | 19:07 |
| berndhs | but for phones, for example, you need to group things differently | 19:07 |
| alterego | Well, seems to me, that tablets, like handsets perfer to go fullscreen wrt apps | 19:07 |
| berndhs | show different collections of things within the app | 19:07 |
| berndhs | right with small displays, you dont have much choices except full screen | 19:08 |
| alterego | Not sure what you mean, do you have a usecase? :) | 19:08 |
| berndhs | use case is shoing a document and index information | 19:08 |
| alterego | Ah, right | 19:08 |
| berndhs | like an RSS news item, and list of headlines, list of feeds | 19:08 |
| berndhs | how much of which part you show varies with the real estate available | 19:09 |
| alterego | Yeah, the old drill up/down | 19:09 |
| berndhs | thigns like that yes | 19:09 |
| berndhs | but even for desktops, showing everything at once is not a good idea | 19:09 |
| berndhs | its just left over from slow displays | 19:09 |
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| alterego | So, ideally you'd define your views, and depending on screen estate the UI manager could either display panes or provide drill up/down | 19:10 |
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| berndhs | yes | 19:10 |
| alterego | That's a nice idea. | 19:10 |
| berndhs | and all this needs to be dynamic | 19:10 |
| alterego | Yeah | 19:10 |
| berndhs | depending, for example, on the curent display | 19:10 |
| berndhs | the current display isn't always the built in one | 19:11 |
| berndhs | remote login, docking stations, projectors | 19:11 |
| alterego | So you could plug your phones HDMI into a monitor and use a USB mouse and you've got a desktop in a phone ;) | 19:11 |
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| alterego | Yes, exactly. | 19:11 |
| berndhs | right | 19:11 |
| berndhs | so the #ifdef solution is DOA | 19:11 |
| alterego | In some ways, the web already handles this with CSS | 19:11 |
| berndhs | yes parts of it | 19:12 |
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| berndhs | the missing part is dynamic grouping | 19:12 |
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| alterego | You have your media type selections that render things differently depending on screen "profile" | 19:12 |
| berndhs | what parts to show, what combinations to show | 19:12 |
| alterego | Okay, what do you mean by dynamic grouping? | 19:12 |
| berndhs | suppose you have 5 content elements | 19:13 |
| berndhs | depending on what the user is currently doing, you show some selection of the 5 | 19:13 |
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| berndhs | which selection depends on display size | 19:13 |
| alterego | Okay, so now you're talking about a UI that may have multiple panes that aren't as closely related as effectively your RSS tree view like example earlier. | 19:14 |
| berndhs | not as hierarchical | 19:14 |
| berndhs | another example is an IDE | 19:15 |
| berndhs | and IDE can show a bunch of different views of the same project | 19:15 |
| alterego | Indeed | 19:15 |
| berndhs | and which view you want to see depends on what you are currently doing | 19:15 |
| alterego | Or just preference :) | 19:16 |
| berndhs | the importance isn't a hierachy like the RSS example | 19:16 |
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| berndhs | could be preference too yes, it isn't all predetermined | 19:16 |
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| alterego | It just gets very complicated when you get the user to define work flow :) | 19:17 |
| alterego | But also, if that could be done right, well, that would be nirvana | 19:17 |
| berndhs | so the paradigm basically starts with having a (large) number of content items | 19:17 |
| alterego | Right | 19:17 |
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| berndhs | and then this needs a more formalized way of describing which ones you show | 19:18 |
| berndhs | and after that, a way to arrange them and size them | 19:18 |
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| berndhs | the middle part right now is being done entirely ad-hoc | 19:19 |
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| berndhs | and so is the bottom part, if at all | 19:19 |
| alterego | I think analysing this sort of thing w ould require creating some use cases. | 19:20 |
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| berndhs | well, it eventually leads to a formal way of describing these tings | 19:20 |
| berndhs | use-cases are just examples | 19:20 |
| berndhs | they can be a starting point | 19:21 |
| alterego | Well, maybe just randomly pick a set of apps, then work out how you'd ideally want those interfaces to work on different profiles. | 19:21 |
| alterego | Then we can infur some dynamic logic from what we learn | 19:21 |
| lcuk | Can someone with a MeeGo Intel handset please verify this bug: | 19:22 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14340 | 19:22 |
| berndhs | yeah but I dont want to collect 18 apps and work through all that | 19:22 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | Bug 14340 nor, Undecided, ---, fathi.boudra, NEW, [N900] Cannot install git | 19:22 |
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| berndhs | maybe some smaller number of dissimilar things | 19:22 |
| alterego | Well, yeah | 19:22 |
| alterego | That's what I meant ;) | 19:22 |
| alterego | 4 or 5 I'd say | 19:22 |
| berndhs | yes that's reasonable | 19:23 |
| alterego | And you don't even have to port any of the apps/UXs just draw a storyboard which shows that you've got all the views that the app you're looking at hyhas. | 19:23 |
| berndhs | yes | 19:23 |
| berndhs | and at the otehr end, make a rough design of the content elements | 19:23 |
| berndhs | and then make up a way do describe the mapping | 19:24 |
| luist | whats the best way to include this line: %users ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/smart * to /etc/suders file in the %post of a package spec? just concat? sed? can i check if this line already exists? | 19:24 |
| berndhs | we can make a chat room for that :) | 19:24 |
| alterego | I'm just wondering whether we can use things like, moving to portrait mode to bring up what would be a sidebar in an IDE | 19:25 |
| berndhs | its not unrelated to meego, but its more general | 19:25 |
| berndhs | ah, actually just portrait versus landscape is an example of the problem | 19:26 |
| alterego | Utilising gestures and the dynamics of a mohandset. | 19:26 |
| berndhs | gestures yes | 19:26 |
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| berndhs | brings up a whole bunch of other things that will relate in the future :) | 19:27 |
| alterego | I'm wondering whether it's worth bringing in desktop UXs, or whether we should concentrate more on tablets and handsets. | 19:28 |
| alterego | I reckon soon more and more laptops will be touch anyway | 19:28 |
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| berndhs | i think touch screen input is a short term phenomenon | 19:28 |
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| berndhs | 5 years maybe | 19:28 |
| * alterego would like to see all screens become touch :) | 19:28 | |
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| jonnor | berndhs: and then what? | 19:29 |
| alterego | Really? | 19:29 |
| berndhs | it has disadvantages, like obscuring the display | 19:29 |
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| berndhs | don't know, perhaps people just point | 19:29 |
| alterego | MAybe, but when is that a problem? :) | 19:29 |
| berndhs | gesture recognition without touching the device | 19:29 |
| alterego | Not as accurate, and tactile feedback is very important | 19:29 |
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| alterego | Sure, that will probably appear sooner or later. | 19:30 |
| berndhs | i mean point at things not on the screen | 19:30 |
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| berndhs | point at the enviroment | 19:30 |
| gabrbedd | crap! I just sneezed and it deleted my whole freaking document! | 19:30 |
| alterego | Hah | 19:30 |
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| berndhs | enhanced reality stuff | 19:30 |
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| jonnor | I doubt that will be mainstream in 5 years | 19:31 |
| gabrbedd | Need a sneeze gesture recognizer... filter that thing you... | 19:31 |
| gabrbedd | s/you/out/ | 19:31 |
| infobot | gabrbedd meant: Need a sneeze gesture recognizer... filter that thing out... | 19:31 |
| jonnor | Things do actually not move that fast in the tech world | 19:31 |
| berndhs | in the tech world maybe, in the market is another question, yoiu're right | 19:31 |
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| berndhs | i think pointing at stuff in a room can be done this year if someone tries it | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | but then what? | 19:32 |
| alterego | I really want to get into augmented reality, but I don't have anything capable of it. | 19:32 |
| berndhs | but in consumer devices for less than $400, takes a while | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | computer says "you're pointing at a lamp, what you want me to do about it?" | 19:33 |
| berndhs | right, i don't have the equipment either | 19:33 |
| lcuk | alterego, N900 is capable of AR | 19:33 |
| berndhs | computer sees you pointing at a lamp and turns it on or off | 19:33 |
| alterego | turn on? | 19:33 |
| berndhs | you point at a train and get the schedule | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | you could do this with kinect or similar, after painstakingly modelling everything in the room in blender, or something | 19:34 |
| berndhs | point at a person and get the credit history :P | 19:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | berndhs: we have the architecture for it in linuxmce | 19:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | berndhs: it would be easy to attach something like this | 19:34 |
| berndhs | right, it is not all that far away | 19:34 |
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| lcuk | bah data consumers! | 19:35 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:35 |
| lcuk | point phone at a train and change it schedule. | 19:35 |
| berndhs | so anyway, the paradigm for making UIs shouldn't break when new stuff like that comes in | 19:35 |
| ali1234 | but it clearly totally changes | 19:35 |
| berndhs | lcuk: right | 19:35 |
| berndhs | ali1234: the paradigm that I will make with alterego, not the current one :) | 19:36 |
| berndhs | the current paradigm is already broken | 19:36 |
| ali1234 | the thing is though, AR sucks | 19:36 |
| ali1234 | it's pretty unnatural way of doing anything | 19:36 |
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| alterego | Or maybe you're just not used to it. | 19:37 |
| ali1234 | eg if i want the schedule of a train, i don't go up to the conductor and start gesticulating wildly at the train | 19:37 |
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| alterego | O_o | 19:38 |
| berndhs | no, you ask politely and point at the train | 19:38 |
| alterego | Don't get your metaphor | 19:38 |
| lcuk | ali1234, I often take pictures of the schedule boards of things at stations | 19:38 |
| lcuk | then I can just glance at phone to know which platform to run to at right time | 19:38 |
| lcuk | add on some 2d barcodes to places and then have live data of the same thing | 19:38 |
| alterego | I think really, my phone should just know I'm in the train station, and have an icon appear on the desktop "train times" which knows the trains I normally get and tells me when they are, or gives me the option to search for other ones. | 19:39 |
| ali1234 | that's a much better idea | 19:39 |
| lcuk | alterego, i have loads of photos of my train ticket too | 19:39 |
| alterego | You should have to point at a train to know your local services. | 19:39 |
| lcuk | it does not need to know where I am, just that my train is nearly here and where I have to get to | 19:39 |
| alterego | s/shoulld/shoulodn't/ | 19:39 |
| ali1234 | but wait, hang on a minute | 19:40 |
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| ali1234 | i don't want to live like that, with some gadget telling me everything i should do | 19:40 |
| berndhs | yeah but the 3 inch screen is too limiting, with only 2 fingers as input | 19:40 |
| berndhs | people don't have enough control in 2 fingers | 19:40 |
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| alterego | ali1234: it doesn't just gives you information or what you can do, the choice is yours, whether you get on that train, steal the train, or jumnp in front of it :P | 19:41 |
| lcuk | ali1234, the some gadget saves me writing same details on my wrist | 19:41 |
| lcuk | which I do often | 19:41 |
| ali1234 | what happened to thinking? | 19:41 |
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| lcuk | gate numbers, times etc | 19:41 |
| gabrbedd | "You've just pointed at a train, do you want to (a) get schedule, (b) get on, (c) rob it, (d) buy it ??" | 19:41 |
| lcuk | ali1234, these are visual reminders of important facts | 19:41 |
| alterego | Thinking wont mmake me know what time my train arrives .. | 19:41 |
| berndhs | train schedules are too unreliable to use directly | 19:41 |
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| berndhs | anyway, that's not something I want to address direcly | 19:42 |
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| berndhs | other than that any new paradigm has to tolerate all these possibilities | 19:43 |
| berndhs | so it can't just be designed for specific devices available now | 19:43 |
| ali1234 | it just sounds to me like you're trying to make a UI controlled by the art of mime... | 19:44 |
| berndhs | no that's just an exmaple of what could come fairly soon | 19:44 |
| ali1234 | it could, but it won't | 19:44 |
| ali1234 | because everyone hates mimes | 19:44 |
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| berndhs | for now I just want to make a systematic way of making UIs that works across display sizes | 19:45 |
| lcuk | like this you mean: http://liqbase.net/liq.meego.r&d.n900.and.ideapad.fullspeed.20110220_011.jpg | 19:45 |
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| gabrbedd | I agree with alterego, I think you need to pick a few use cases and start trying to flesh it out. | 19:46 |
| ali1234 | what about if the size of the UI wasn't fixed to the size of the display? and you could resize them, and maybe move them around? we could call them "windows" | 19:46 |
| berndhs | that's a starting point yes gabredd | 19:46 |
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| gabrbedd | It sounds like you're trying to accomplish something like "skins with smarts" | 19:46 |
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| alterego | ali1234: it's more about, if you've got more space, but more information on the screen. | 19:46 |
| berndhs | no i want a programming paradigm, because right now there isn't one :) | 19:47 |
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| alterego | s/but/put/ | 19:47 |
| infobot | alterego meant: ali1234: it's more about, if you've got more space, put more information on the screen. | 19:47 |
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| TSCHAKeee | vgrade: http://svn.linuxmce.org/svn/branches/LinuxMCE-0810/src/MeeGo/orbiter-archos9.ks | 19:47 |
| alterego | Or, if you've got a touch display, don't show zoom buttons if gestures are supported, or there are hardware zoom keys, etc. | 19:48 |
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| lcuk | alterego, give a computer that requires gestures to an old person | 19:48 |
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| ali1234 | that sucks | 19:48 |
| berndhs | alterego: right, show only the controls that make sense | 19:48 |
| lcuk | and see how well that works out. | 19:48 |
| ali1234 | what if i hate gestures? | 19:48 |
| ali1234 | and i want to use the buttons anyway | 19:48 |
| lcuk | or cannot use them | 19:48 |
| lcuk | or the screen misrecognises | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | what if i have no fingers | 19:49 |
| alterego | Anyhow, easy apps that can be adapted are things that are mainly data oriented, media players, rss readers, train timetiables , etc, etc. | 19:49 |
| berndhs | ali1234: tehre is a market for shows, even though there are people without feet | 19:49 |
| berndhs | s/shows/shoes/ | 19:49 |
| infobot | berndhs meant: ali1234: tehre is a market for shoes, even though there are people without feet | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | i demand shoes for people without feet | 19:49 |
| lcuk | ali1234, psst, most amputees still wear shoes. | 19:50 |
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| alterego | Harder apps, well, that'll be things like IDEs, graphical editors, wordprocessors, etc, etc. | 19:50 |
| lcuk | errr those that have prosthetics rather | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | alterego, :) have you tried using any IDE on a touch device? | 19:51 |
| lcuk | the text editing part is ok already | 19:51 |
| alterego | lcuk: no, for good reason ;) | 19:51 |
| berndhs | actually even though I brought up IDEs as an example, I dont use them | 19:51 |
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| lcuk | alterego, try it | 19:52 |
| alterego | I suppose pressing could bring up "navigate to definition" or other menu options. | 19:52 |
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| berndhs | none of the IDEs let me look at more than 1 source file at the same time | 19:52 |
| ali1234 | Qt creator does | 19:52 |
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| alterego | I don't like coding on the N900 keyboard to be honest, especially how long it takes me to enter in certain symbols. | 19:52 |
| ali1234 | just split the window any way you like | 19:52 |
| lcuk | berndhs, less of an issue really, it is the edit nobbles around visual components that sends you into frustration | 19:52 |
| berndhs | well, for me it's the choice of 1 source file only :) | 19:53 |
| lcuk | things we do with a mouse and take for granted | 19:53 |
| lcuk | like splitter bars with mouse cursor feedback showing we are on the correct pixel | 19:53 |
| berndhs | i like to look at 2 or 3 | 19:53 |
| lcuk | is impossible on touch devices with no hover | 19:53 |
| ali1234 | this is why the mouse isn't going to be replaced with innaccurate pointing at the screen any time soon | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, load up an art app on any tablet/handset device | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | draw a simple cross with 2 lines | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | then, using your finger or stylus even, try to hit the centre of the cross | 19:54 |
| lcuk | multiple taps | 19:55 |
| lcuk | then save the picture | 19:55 |
| berndhs | i dont see how anyone can work on source code looking at 8 lines that are 60 characters long :) | 19:55 |
| alterego | Those splitter grippers are annoying even with a mouse, the amount of time you waste moving those bloody things .. | 19:55 |
| ali1234 | lcuk where are you going with this? | 19:56 |
| * lcuk shows photo of previous attempts at that | 19:56 | |
| lcuk | ali1234, I do it on most touch devices | 19:56 |
| lcuk | just to confirm accuracy | 19:56 |
| lcuk | just open any graphics app on the device | 19:56 |
| lcuk | draw 2 lines and poke away | 19:56 |
| ali1234 | and what did you discover? | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | just how accurately I could hit a target | 19:57 |
| alterego | I find it hard hitting links on the N900 sometimes :D | 19:57 |
| lcuk | at first I needed it to know the offset from my thinking to where I poke on the screen | 19:57 |
| ali1234 | that's because the N900 is really innaccurate | 19:57 |
| lcuk | but now I just do it to relax and ponder | 19:57 |
| lcuk | the n900 is very accurate | 19:57 |
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| lcuk | it is your fat finger that is not | 19:57 |
| ali1234 | mine isn't :( | 19:57 |
| berndhs | maybe n900s are ok development devices if you have 5 or 6 of them | 19:58 |
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| ali1234 | even with the stylus it still generates clicks over a radius of about 3-4mm | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | (at random) | 19:58 |
| alterego | O_o | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | that's when it actually registers a press at all | 19:58 |
| alterego | Crazy | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | sometimes it just vibrates and does nothing at all | 19:58 |
| alterego | Well, that's blatantly broken .. | 19:59 |
| alterego | The brand new N900 I received not so long ago, is hyper sensitive and super accurate. | 19:59 |
| teve | have you calibrated your screen? | 19:59 |
| ali1234 | no | 19:59 |
| ali1234 | i didn't know that was possible | 19:59 |
| lcuk | ali1234, do you have a screen protector on? | 19:59 |
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| alterego | Even my N900 that's a year old is pretty sensitive and still quite accurate, except when you go to the edges. | 19:59 |
| ali1234 | no | 19:59 |
| fkL-ej | hey | 19:59 |
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| lcuk | how odd then, accuracy on the n900 ts is something pretty much everyone has been pleased with | 20:00 |
| teve | ali1234: settings -> screen calibration | 20:00 |
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| ali1234 | i have a screen protector on my old windows mobile phone, and it's still much more accurate than the n900 | 20:00 |
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| lcuk | even for finger use, it is the nicest resistive I have encountered | 20:00 |
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| fkL-ej | i got free meego iso | 20:00 |
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| fkL-ej | how to install it in usb dick > | 20:01 |
| fkL-ej | disc | 20:01 |
| fkL-ej | usb pen disk | 20:01 |
| fkL-ej | how to install meego.sio in usb | 20:01 |
| fkL-ej | how to install meego iso in usb drive ? | 20:01 |
| ali1234 | with dd | 20:01 |
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| fkL-ej | talkin to me? | 20:02 |
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| fkL-ej | wat dd | 20:02 |
| ali1234 | yes | 20:02 |
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| gabrbedd | fkL-ej: http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook | 20:04 |
| gabrbedd | fkL-ej: It has instructions about how to put it onto a USB drive for booting. | 20:04 |
| fkL-ej | ok | 20:04 |
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| fkL-ej | it will run in windows 7/ | 20:05 |
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| ngharo | see where it says "Windows instructions" at the top of that page... ;) | 20:06 |
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| fkL-ej | System Requirements | 20:08 |
| fkL-ej | •CPU: Intel Atom or Intel Core 2 CPU (support for SSSE3) | 20:08 |
| fkL-ej | Note: MeeGo will not work on non-SSSE3 CPUs | 20:08 |
| fkL-ej | that means not work on i3 i5 i7 ? | 20:08 |
| fkL-ej | only core 2 duo ? | 20:08 |
| fkL-ej | •Platforms with the GMA-500, Nvidia, or ATI Graphics chipset are not supported............... | 20:09 |
| fkL-ej | what ?????????????? | 20:09 |
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| fkL-ej | i need to throw away the grafix card ? | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Or ARM. | 20:09 |
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| fkL-ej | i got ARM . , in phone | 20:10 |
| fkL-ej | not in pc | 20:10 |
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| ngharo | intel i series supports ssse3 | 20:10 |
| fkL-ej | ok | 20:10 |
| gabrbedd | i3 i5 i7 is supported | 20:10 |
| fkL-ej | but i have nvidia 512 mb grafix in laptop | 20:10 |
| fkL-ej | i need to remove that ?? | 20:10 |
| gabrbedd | nvidia is a no-go. sorry. | 20:10 |
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| fkL-ej | i dont want meego to use that grafix memory | 20:11 |
| fkL-ej | cant it just neglect it>? | 20:11 |
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| lbt | fkL-ej: MeeGo has a limited set of supported HW at this point. It's not ready for use on general purpose PC/laptop hardware | 20:11 |
| fkL-ej | i need to open the laptop with screwdriver and remove nvidia ? | 20:11 |
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| ngharo | will xorg fall back to vesa? | 20:12 |
| lbt | if you are interested in developing it then please do so ... otherwise it's not really for you just yet :) | 20:12 |
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| fkL-ej | i can help | 20:12 |
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| fkL-ej | and it doesnt need development but degrading | 20:12 |
| fkL-ej | just remove the nvidia detection thing | 20:13 |
| fkL-ej | . | 20:13 |
| lbt | feel free to do so | 20:13 |
| gabrbedd | fkL-ej: If you want to run MeeGo in a virtual environment... check out the MeeGo SDK (the qemu option, and possibly the MADDE option) | 20:13 |
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| fkL-ej | i got vmware | 20:16 |
| fkL-ej | and the meego zip | 20:16 |
| fkL-ej | how to run it in VMplayer ? | 20:16 |
| fkL-ej | watever | 20:16 |
| fkL-ej | i just want to see | 20:16 |
| fkL-ej | how to put it in tV ????? | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | how to install it in tV ????? | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | Connected TV | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | Consumers demand access to all of their content on all the screens they interact with in the home, from mobile computers and handsets to digital televisions. As these screens connect to the internet, the opportunity for manufacturers and content providers | 20:17 |
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| ngharo | q__q | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | MeeGo for Connected TV allows OEMs, ODMs, and service providers the strategic freedom to deliver innovative and | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | ? | 20:17 |
| lbt | fkL-ej: google is your friend ... but you are beginning to sound like a troll. | 20:17 |
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| fkL-ej | install it in tV ? | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | ? | 20:17 |
| fkL-ej | how ? | 20:17 |
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| ngharo | step one: install meego | 20:18 |
| ngharo | step two: connect video cable to tv | 20:18 |
| lcuk | ali1234, from december: http://liqbase.net/liq.20101202_131408.liqsketchedit.scr.png | 20:18 |
| fkL-ej | that way i can install windows 7 in tv | 20:19 |
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| fkL-ej | only for nokia and aava phones ? | 20:25 |
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| timakima | you're not trolling well enough. try harder. | 20:27 |
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| ali1234 | i can't find any kind of drawing program on symbian 3 | 20:59 |
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| ali1234 | so i can't try the cross experiment | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, heh | 21:02 |
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| ali1234 | this is a good objective test of "real world" touch screen performance though | 21:05 |
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| ali1234 | but the thing is, a mouse will always utterly destroy any other kind of input in this test | 21:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | gaze-tracking | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | In some cases. | 21:13 |
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| ali1234 | no, even gaze-tracking is less accurate than a mouse | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | have you ever tried to stare exactly on one point and not look away at all? it's really hard | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | you always get some drift | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | or maybe my eyes are just bad | 21:18 |
| lcuk | it just means that touch interfaces have to account for innacuracies | 21:18 |
| lcuk | both in the UX and the drivers to filter and present the data | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | you can't | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | if the data isn't there you can't just make it up | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | well, you can, but it's gonna suck | 21:19 |
| lcuk | ali1234, what I mean is that drivers should know there is a difference between touch screens designed with lab conditions and high quality data, and real world performance on dirty, dusty touchscreens with grubby innacute (and often jam coated) fingers | 21:21 |
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| ali1234 | computers don't "know" anything in any meaningful sense | 21:23 |
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| ali1234 | this is probably the biggest misconception of the past 10 years of mainstream computing | 21:23 |
| lcuk | ali1234, take something as simple as a list with nice swipable kinetics and an onclick handler that opens a new window | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | "your tivo knows what shows you like" etc | 21:24 |
| ali1234 | no, it doesn't. it is just detecting very simplistic patterns, as demonstrated when it gets it hilariously wrong | 21:24 |
| lcuk | if you misswipe, you get a touchscreen "tut" as you open a window when you meant to scroll up the list | 21:24 |
| lcuk | and reach for the backbutton to try again | 21:25 |
| lcuk | if you catch it wrong again, etc | 21:25 |
| lcuk | the best fix for this I have found is to just have click doing select | 21:25 |
| lcuk | and have a dedicate button to edit or select etc | 21:25 |
| lcuk | no misswipes are going to break your concentration from finding the item you were looking for. | 21:25 |
| ali1234 | the best fix i found was stop using a rubbish resistive TS | 21:26 |
| lcuk | this is on my Ideapad | 21:26 |
| lcuk | :) | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | the ideapad is a whole different ballgame | 21:26 |
| lcuk | capacitive is more noticable | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | i tried the tablet UX on it, it's really bad for that kind of stuff | 21:26 |
| lcuk | ideapad on its hinge actively moves away from you and bounces | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | especially the photo viewer, where it seems to be randomly switching between three different functions for swiping horizontally | 21:27 |
| lcuk | if it is in laptop mode | 21:27 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, the first time I noticed it | 21:27 |
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| lcuk | I was using my old N810 | 21:27 |
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| Tronic | Speaking of touchscreens, are there any iPad clones with resistive screen? | 21:27 |
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| lcuk | which had a poor touchscreen | 21:27 |
| Tronic | I am looking for something to use MyPaint on. | 21:27 |
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| ali1234 | Tronic: um yeah like all of them | 21:27 |
| lcuk | people remarked that I should not care because they would be perfect in future | 21:27 |
| lcuk | Tronic, n900 has it available | 21:28 |
| Tronic | ali1234: Like "all of them" use capacitive because they want to have multitouch. | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | Tronic: you're not going cheap enough | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | the $99 ones are resistive | 21:28 |
| Tronic | lcuk: Yes, that's what I am using but the screen is small and the device is slow. | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | and there's a hell of a lot of them | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | and they are all garbage :) | 21:28 |
| Tronic | ali1234: Not much help then :( | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | but they do have resistive | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | no android 2.x though | 21:29 |
| jonnor | maybe I should produce such a device, designed for MyPaint | 21:29 |
| lcuk | ali1234, so there are "a hell of a lot" of devices out there with touch screens which are not quite perfect? :) | 21:29 |
| Tronic | I was really looking for a more reasonably priced Wacom Cintiq replacement and being independent of a PC is also a plus. | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | lcuk there's a hell of a lot of cheap junk tablets and phones coming out of china, yes | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | and i'm not talking about HTC lol | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | GPL - what is GPL? | 21:30 |
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| ali1234 | i'm talking about the stuff where they don't even bother giving it a name or logo | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course you can't have source code! | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | or even just write apple on it | 21:30 |
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| ali1234 | like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUT39op2Pp8 | 21:31 |
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| thomasjfox | Stskeeps: quick question: Is "libosso" not part of meego trunk? Can't seem to find it. (running the netbook image or on the repo server) | 22:19 |
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| TSCHAKeee | libosso is a maemo thing | 22:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | you'd need to pull in Cordia | 22:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | look on repo.pub.meego.com for smoku's maego project. | 22:23 |
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| thomasjfox | thanks! Is there a meego replacement for this to get notified if a device's display is on/off? | 22:24 |
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| TSCHAKeee | good question | 22:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | the APIs are in a bit of flux right now | 22:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | as things like Meego-Touch-Framework are being systematically deprecated | 22:25 |
| thomasjfox | I already found "libresource" which closes matches maemo's libplayback | 22:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | right now, i am steering clear, and using just MeeGo Core components until everybody makes up their mind on what the hell they wanna do | 22:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | (which is okay, I have existing software that uses our own stuff for now, but as soon as I have a clear path of what APIs to use, i will write new software to use the new APIs) | 22:26 |
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| thomasjfox | so I think it's ok to use libosso for now until an "official" API comes up | 22:28 |
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| thomasjfox | thanks | 22:28 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 22:29 |
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| thomasjfox | TSCHAKeee: one more thing: How did you get access to repo.pub.meego.com? meego.com/garage seems incomplete for now | 22:44 |
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| thomasjfox | TSCHAKeee: I just assumed your username there is tschak909 ;) | 22:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | thomasjfox: i talked to lbt | 22:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | he upgraded my meego.com account to work on the public obs too | 22:45 |
| thomasjfox | so that's like a maemo.org build system invitation | 22:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 22:46 |
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| TSCHAKeee | thomasjfox: this is what I work on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRKkqxWcytI ... http://www.linuxmce.org/ .... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829 (the last being a 20 min demo video) | 22:47 |
| thomasjfox | does the stuff behind repo.pub.meego.com already do full automated builds for all supported archs? | 22:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | yes | 22:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | (simple answer) | 22:47 |
| thomasjfox | hehe :) | 22:47 |
| * thomasjfox takes a look at the videos | 22:47 | |
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| thomasjfox | TSCHAKeee: So this is linux based home + "multimedia" automation for meego | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | this is a smart home platform, the only one of its kind, to combine EVERYTHING into one place | 22:54 |
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| TSCHAKeee | right now, we base on Ubuntu | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | but I am systematically building atop meego as a feasibility test of the platform | 22:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | we have a TON of legacy code | 22:55 |
| lbt | thomasjfox: do you want access? | 22:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | which i am systematically testing | 22:55 |
| thomasjfox | lbt: Maybe in a few days, still have to get around to build my first rockbox package. But thanks! | 22:56 |
| lbt | np - just yell | 22:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | lbt: are there jogglers still floating about? | 22:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | lbt: I might wanna grab about 10 or so | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | hehehe | 22:57 |
| lbt | mmm O2 stopped selling them | 22:57 |
| lbt | ebay has some | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | :((( | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | i guess they weren't a hit | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | lbt: i can tell you, this is the FASTEST I've _EVER_ seen Orbiter run on a wireless device | 22:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it screams | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | the hardware is wonderful | 22:58 |
| thomasjfox | lbt: Is there an (web) overview of all the packages in repo.pub? | 22:59 |
| lbt | not yet | 22:59 |
| lbt | we're working on something | 22:59 |
| thomasjfox | I just built midnight commander for me locally, might be nice for someone else, too | 22:59 |
| lbt | that is what the OBS is for | 23:00 |
| lbt | we'll have an 'Extras' area with apps like that | 23:00 |
| * TSCHAKeee will soon upload what is probably the largest spec file ever to OBS | 23:00 | |
| TSCHAKeee | (I apologise in advance) | 23:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | to build all of LinuxMCE's components on MeeGo | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: you can't beat chromium's 700mb source rpm | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | (it has to be in the same spec file, because the entire source tree is vertically oriented) | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | oh yes i can | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | yes...i can... | 23:01 |
| lbt | ugh | 23:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee | our main source tree is double that. | 23:01 |
| lbt | I can pick up jogglers on ebay | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok. | 23:01 |
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| lbt | if you're serious | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah... i need to wait just a bit, but yep | 23:02 |
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| thomasjfox | thanks for all the information. Gotta run. | 23:04 |
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| lcuk | timeless_office, ping | 23:16 |
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| Thrandil | hi all | 23:28 |
| Thrandil | does anyone here know if there's a way to try out meego on a usb stick like one can do with Ubuntu? | 23:28 |
| lcuk | Thrandil, most of the images are USB defined anyway and inlude a "Boot from USB" option | 23:29 |
| lcuk | for quick testing and confirmation without mounting your main hard disk | 23:29 |
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| Thrandil | ooh nice. Thanks. I saw the images, but didn't want to boot them in case I would mess something up. Knowing there is this option is great, as my new netbook will arrive tomorrow, incl. touch screen function | 23:30 |
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| gabrbedd | Thrandil: Installing an image to the USB follows this process: http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook | 23:32 |
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| gabrbedd | ...which is different from Ubuntu. | 23:32 |
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| Thrandil | thanks for the link, gabrbedd | 23:32 |
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