IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-03-03

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nidO	well, can drop to terminal fine, most ui stuff is just spitting out failures to connect to x, even though it is running	00:03
nidO	I can launch the live installer though and that comes up fine, but will then still only drop back to terminal	00:03
nidO	killing uxlaunch just restarts it and brings back up the same static image i've been seeing	00:04
gabrbedd	nidO: Yeah, if uxlaunch fails... it `init` just keeps trying to restart it. At times it's a cool feature... but when things are failing it's really annoying.	00:06
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Venemo	~seen sivang	00:08
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infobot	sivang <~sivan@unaffiliated/sivang> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 2h 5m 58s ago, saying: '*MSWindows'.	00:08
gabrbedd	nidO: what hardware are you using?	00:09
lcuk	nidO,	00:09
lcuk	export DISPLAY=:0	00:09
lcuk	this might not work at all though, it is just idea to try :$	00:10
* lcuk is person who will try rather than sit on hands		00:10
nidO	gabrbedd: its a novatech ntablet - basically a rebadged tega v2, its an nm10 graphics controller on an atom n455	00:10
nidO	lcuk: nada	00:12
nidO	the thing that gets me is just before giving me this blank splash screen its showing the top left corner of the proper home screen for a fraction of a second with the "my tablet" splash info	00:12
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gabrbedd	nidO: can you examine /tmp/Xorg.log (or /tmp/Xorg.0.log or something) ?? It looks like X11 isn't starting... and that log will probably tell you why.	00:17
nidO	X11 is firing up, restarting it just repeats the whole process (white screen, then displaying the UI in the top left briefly, then going to some splash image)	00:20
gabrbedd	nidO: Right... the fact that the process repeats means that X11 doesn't successfully start up.	00:21
nidO	its' log doesnt seem to show anything obviously fatal, the last sections of the log show it correctly identifying the touch and keyboard devices and setting the screen res (correctly) and refresh rate	00:21
nidO	then its logging the switch when dropping to terminal	00:22
nidO	gabrbedd: sorry wasnt clear, X11 is starting up, manually stopping it from terminal and restarting it then repeats the process, it doesnt do it itself unless I stop and restart it	00:22
gabrbedd	nidO: Ah.	00:23
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gabrbedd	nidO: What kind of stuff do you see in /var/log/messages ?	00:23
gabrbedd	nidO: and /var/log/uxlaunch.log	00:24
* gabrbedd is presuming that nidO wants to troubleshoot this. Feel free to quit at any time. :-)		00:25
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nidO	uxlaunch.log seems to suggest it's loading fine - the last output is succesfully starting xorg, dumping environment vars, then entering start_desktop_session and succesfully parsing all the .desktop files	00:30
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nidO	messages is spitting out tracker, audio, and magnetometer errors, but nothing else	00:32
gabrbedd	nidO: In messages... are they backtraces?	00:33
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gabrbedd	...or segfaults, at least.	00:34
nidO	no, its just spitting out glib warnings for tracker being unable to get key values, and the audio and magnetometer errors are just plugin load errors (audio is because the audio chip isnt supported, and magnetometer is because the device doesnt have one)	00:35
DawnFoster	coming in at the end asking the obvious question - are you using a supported graphics chip?	00:36
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nidO	its an nm10 - the base issue though is that the 1.1 netbook ux runs fine on this device, its just the 1.2 tablet ux that isnt displaying a ui	00:37
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gabrbedd	DawnFoster: He appears to be using this: http://www.tegav2.com/datasheets/tegatech_TEGA_v2_datasheet.pdf	00:37
nidO	or rather, isnt displaying one other than the top-left corner of it for a fraction of a second	00:38
nidO	also, i'm assuming the os isnt having a major problem with the graphics chip as the blank background image it's just leaving me at is perfectly nicely rendered :)	00:38
* gabrbedd shrugs.		00:39
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DawnFoster	just poked one of our tablet gurus to see if they know why	00:41
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gabrbedd	I'm out of ideas. Perhaps pulseaudio is causing a startup problem... but that's just an all-out guess.	00:41
DawnFoster	assuming you downloaded the tablet build from Intel's appup site?	00:42
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DawnFoster	nidO: still here? I have someone looking into it, but they wanted me to confirm that you downloaded the tablet build from Intel's appup site?	00:45
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nidO	DawnFoster: cheers, yep it's the 1.2 prealpha from http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego-sdk-suite i'm using	00:45
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pixelgeek1	nidO: I'm pretty sure that the tablet build is only for Pinetrail chipsets	01:19
pixelgeek1	i.e. ExoPC & Lenovo S10-3t	01:19
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nidO	pixelgeek1: this is an n455 pinetrail, its basically identical platform-wise to the exo and s10-3t	01:23
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nidO	afaik both the exopc and s10-3t are nm10 chipsets and gma3150 graphics, same as this tablet	01:24
sivang	is the qt wiki a good place to plan and spec a QML based ebook reader for Qt platforms?	01:25
sivang	(ideapad and wetab are examples)	01:25
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pixelgeek1	nidO: no guarantees with anything other than ExoPC (and no guarantees for that one either ;) )	01:26
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nidO	indeed, im not expecting/demanding this to work, but just curious as to where the snafu is as it's clearly getting as far as loading the ux, and the 1.1 netbook ux runs flawlessly	01:27
nidO	and, I dont really get the image it's ultimately dumping me at - its a designed background image but one I havent seen before, and has a triangle on the right hand side curiously similar-looking to the unlock button but with no padlock in it, and doesnt do anything	01:29
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pixelgeek1	tap the triangle	01:31
nidO	yeah it does nothing	01:31
pixelgeek1	Ah - it should unlock the screen	01:31
pixelgeek1	maybe the touch panel isn't supported	01:31
nidO	the touch panel works	01:32
nidO	fwiw, I just got a video up of what it's doing	01:32
nidO	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riYIXV5kTsw	01:32
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nidO	shows the boot start to finish, gets interesting at about 1:25	01:32
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pixelgeek1	yup - that's the lockscreen	01:34
pixelgeek1	you should just be able to tap the triangle to see the panels	01:34
lcuk	nidO, search meego, there is a touchscreen bug recently fixed where mouse moves were detected but no clicks	01:34
lcuk	possibly it?	01:35
* lcuk beds anyway \o		01:35
sivang	night lcuk	01:35
nidO	ill take a look lcuk, ta	01:35
* sivang pokes poppler with the neat qml page changing code someone posted to the meego ml		01:35
sivang	this is so cool.	01:35
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lcuk	sivang, saw the yt video from martin, looks excellent, it should do portrait fullscreen for many people	01:36
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sivang	lcuk: that is what I am planning and poking , yes	01:37
sivang	lcuk: given the amounts of C++ required to do something like this (boilerplate to load the QML vm) I see C# and silverlight are going to have quite some competition within Nokia :)	01:38
pixelgeek1	nidO: can you do an lspci to show what the touchscreen panel is on that machine. I'm away from my tablet right now, but I wasnt to compare	01:38
sivang	lcuk: QML is becoming this next gen language , high level no pointers , easy learning curve	01:39
* sivang is happy		01:39
nidO	pixelgeek1: sure, one sec - its a hanvon, lemme check details	01:39
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sivang	the balance between the level of control and the easiness with which you can do stuff, I think is unparalelled.	01:40
ali1234	the level of control is pretty poor	01:40
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sivang	lcuk: I wrote to him as well asking to collaborate, I know someone has posted a link to the meego wiki but I think this should be on he qt wiki	01:40
ali1234	just try changing a couple of lines in the tablet UX for example	01:40
sivang	ali1234: how so?	01:40
ali1234	and see the knock on effect it has on everything else	01:40
nidO	oh, wait. this cant be a failure in touch inputs, if I launch the live-installer from shell I can interact with that fine	01:41
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sivang	ali1234: that is actually proving the level of control is high, no?	01:41
* sivang might be missing a few things.		01:41
ali1234	if you can't change one variable without unintended effects on another, that is not a high level of control	01:42
sivang	lcuk: so apparently, it boils down to have QImage rendered onto the QML pages and that is it.	01:42
ali1234	certainly not fine grained anyway	01:42
Venemo	hey sivang :)	01:42
Venemo	long time no see :)	01:42
sivang	ali1234: you can make the var non dependant	01:42
sivang	hi Venemo :)	01:42
* sivang -> brb		01:42
Venemo	sivang, how're you doing?	01:42
ali1234	it isn't an issue about actual variables in the code	01:42
ali1234	it's about abstracts like "how big is this component"	01:43
Venemo	QML is a direct competitor to XAML	01:43
sivang	Venemo: okaish sort of, here for just a few minutes though :)	01:43
ali1234	it's like when you're trying to do rubiks cube, and you can do one side. but then when you try to do another side, it messes up the first side	01:44
ali1234	and you basically never progress beyond that	01:44
ali1234	until you find out that you can't do it one side at a time, and your whole approach was wrong	01:44
sivang	Venemo: ah, I see yes, XAML seems more close	01:44
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ali1234	this is not the hallmark of an easy to use language	01:44
sivang	then a 'proper' language	01:44
nidO	pixelgeek1: the touch panel's just being reported as Hanvon 10.1	01:44
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Venemo	sivang: like XAML, QML is not a programming language. it is a declarative language intended to be used by GUI designers	01:45
sivang	ali1234: see my previous comment, yes, as Venemo noted not a complete language, but hirarchy based descriptive markup	01:45
* pixelgeek1 googling to see if I can find what's in the ExoPC		01:45
sivang	Venemo: I hope for Qt to have a high level interface like .NET Has with C#	01:45
ali1234	i never said it was a programming language	01:45
sivang	maybe it could be Pytho, who knows.	01:45
Venemo	ali1234: I never said you said :P	01:46
ali1234	point still stands	01:46
ali1234	and it's the same problem that so often occurs with html	01:46
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Venemo	ali1234: yeah, of course	01:46
ali1234	at least there's only one implementation of QML	01:47
ali1234	it has that in it's favour	01:47
Venemo	QML's problem is that it's not XML based	01:47
ali1234	XML was never meant to be written by hand - QML is	01:47
sivang	ali1234: noted, I was confusing QML to be more than just descriptive markup so-to-speak	01:48
ali1234	when i realised that XML was only ever meant to be read/written by a XML parser was the day i started to like XML	01:48
Venemo	ali1234: Visual Studio has autocompletion for XML and XAML	01:48
sivang	ali1234: I have a dream for qt to have a very high level language, c# or Python or vala whatever :)	01:48
Venemo	ali1234: you can bet how fast it can be coded	01:48
Venemo	sivang: there're Python Qt binding	01:49
ali1234	python Qt is great	01:49
sivang	Venemo: yes, but people say it is very slow and dmeanding on resources hence not ready for handset	01:49
sivang	Venemo: (see karloliina on meego ml re: book reader)	01:50
ali1234	that's because of python, not the Qt binding	01:50
Venemo	sivang: people say that all the time about interpreted languages	01:50
ali1234	also its not really true when you use Qt because Qtdoes so much that you hardly need any python code	01:50
Venemo	sivang: we would need a Qt binding for C#/Mono :)	01:50
pixelgeek1	nidO: ExoPC looks like it has a YFO Touchscreen	01:52
pixelgeek1	I'd be surprised if your hanlon touchscreen drivers are included by default. It might be possible to add them.	01:52
pixelgeek1	s/hanlon/hanvon	01:53
nidO	pixelgeek1: sorry not sure if you saw a few mins ago, but the device is correctly recognising the panel, and if I launch the live-installer from shell I can interact with it via the touch panel fine	01:53
nidO	(both pointer movement and clicks)	01:54
ali1234	i would like to see a good ebook reader for meego because it's about the only reason i would buy a tablet	01:54
ali1234	but i think my idea of "good" is probably different to most people's	01:54
sivang	Venemo: yes! :)	01:54
pixelgeek1	The tablet shares the netbook installer.	01:55
sivang	ali1234: there is somewhere a wiki page for that, could you add your ideas there or have you already done so?	01:55
Venemo	sivang: there's already Gtk#, so Qt# shouldn't be hard to make either :)	01:55
sivang	ali1234: we might pull something like this with the motivating QML snippet Martin has contributed on the ML.	01:55
pixelgeek1	It may support the touchscreen, but the image installed may not.	01:55
ali1234	sivang: i was looking at that QML stuff earlier, it's basically the opposite of what i want	01:56
pixelgeek1	nidO: do you see what I'm getting at?	01:56
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sivang	Venemo: indeed. that would be a dream together with QML	01:56
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sivang	ali1234: oh? you commented on the thread ?	01:56
nidO	pixelgeek1: sorry, i'm not following - the live-installer can be launched from the booted 1.2 tablet image via shell, and it directly loads the installer ui which responds to touch fine	01:56
ali1234	sivang: no, people will just say i am trolling :)	01:56
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ali1234	i had a draft but did not post it because of the direction the thread was heading in	01:58
pixelgeek1	nidO: yes, the installer ui is shared with the netbook installer - it may have code that the tablet image is missing.	01:58
pixelgeek1	Or I'm completely missing the train here)	01:58
sivang	ali1234: no,please, do. feedback is desired to prevent talks like my dublin talk from re-occuring :)	01:58
sivang	ali1234: please do! I'm easger to see it.	01:58
ali1234	what was wrong with that talk?	01:59
ali1234	i was there, seemed fine	01:59
sivang	ali1234: well, to let me talk about other things,	01:59
ali1234	the one with timeless right?	01:59
sivang	like "How we did so well and took over the world"	01:59
sivang	:)	01:59
sivang	ali1234: yes :)	01:59
sivang	ali1234: it was very good, I Know, but I want to sometime soon conclude it with "this is how we fixed everything and open source rules the handset and gadget world"	01:59
nidO	pixelgeek1: could I just clarify that what im seeing is actually what's supposed to be shown as the initially-booted lockscreen as far as you're aware? a light blue image with a blank triangle on the right edge (as from video demos of the 1.2 tablet ux I havent ever seen anything similar)	02:00
ali1234	oh you mean, so you don't need to make another talk like that	02:00
pixelgeek1	nidO: yes - that's the lockscreen that you're seeing.	02:01
sivang	ali1234: exaclty :-)	02:01
pixelgeek1	yes - the panels briefly show and then the lockscreen kicks in	02:01
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nidO	I suppose there's no keyboard-based way of unlocking it	02:02
pixelgeek1	so if your touchscreen is not being recognised (for whatever reason), then you won't be able to get any further.	02:02
pixelgeek1	Nope :)	02:02
nidO	gutted	02:02
pixelgeek1	None that I've found, anyway.	02:02
pixelgeek1	Is SSH enabled by default?	02:03
nidO	sshd is started yeah	02:03
pixelgeek1	If you could add the hanvon driver...	02:03
pixelgeek1	Sounds like it's part of the netbook image	02:04
ali1234	sivang: is anyone looking at ebook formats? they all seem to present different challenges	02:04
ali1234	see, in my opinion, the UI is trivial: just show the page fullscreen and nothing else	02:05
ali1234	the problem is in deciding what goes on which page	02:05
sivang	ali1234: I was thinking of starting with just pdf so far, as this is my biggest itche	02:05
sivang	ali1234: as well as my favorite book pub always have pdf as a format (Packt)	02:06
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sivang	ali1234: e.g. take it easy, implement syupport for stuff you need - so if you have different wish for format, e.g. kindle et al you can investigate into it.	02:06
ali1234	well, one thing i tried to do on ideapad was ebooks... and the only workable way i found to do it was adobe reader on windows running fullscreen, after reformatting the books and printing to pdf with open office	02:07
sivang	from which format?	02:07
ali1234	from pdf	02:07
Venemo	ali1234: there are pdf readers for Linux, aren't there?	02:07
sivang	ali1234: I'm confused.	02:07
ali1234	yes, but none of them have fullscreen, or they don't work properly with touch (right click to go back a page grr)	02:07
Venemo	mhm	02:08
ali1234	sivang: the issue is that you get a PDF and whoever made it decided comic sans is the greatest font ever, and it should be double spaced	02:08
ali1234	and there's no space between paragraphs or text indent	02:08
sivang	ahhh	02:08
sivang	i see	02:08
sivang	so apparently we can control that through poppler and Qt	02:09
sivang	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qq/qq27-poppler.html	02:09
sivang	it so happens that while rendering the elements become Qt elemnts, so we can hook to that and replace them with our fancy if we wish	02:09
sivang	it sounds simplistc,but I think this is the highlevel approach how to do that properly./	02:09
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ali1234	sounds good	02:10
sivang	so text becomes a qt text widget, then we can change its font for that matter.	02:10
sivang	that is my plan, anyways.	02:10
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ali1234	but i'd rather start from a ebook format that has some kind of abstract representation of the chapters etc	02:10
sivang	(I suffer from fonts as well :))	02:10
sivang	like?	02:10
ali1234	well, i don't know	02:10
ali1234	cos i don't know anything about ebook formats	02:10
sivang	I'm not so knowledgeable about ebook formats, top be honest	02:10
sivang	:)	02:10
ali1234	but i assume one of them must do it	02:10
sivang	pdf is not such one?	02:10
ali1234	it can if generated properly	02:11
sivang	'abstract rep of chapter'	02:11
sivang	I see.	02:11
ali1234	worst case it's just a series of bitmaps with not even any fonts to change	02:11
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ali1234	i was on project gutenberg and then have their books in multiple formats, so maybe one of those is what i'm looking for	02:12
ali1234	i would imagine at least one of them is an open standard too	02:12
ali1234	and PG support would be nice, especially if it has a built in browser or something	02:13
sivang	if you could find out and email on the thread, I'd be appreciative.	02:13
sivang	PG?	02:13
ali1234	all commercial ereaders come loaded with PG	02:13
ali1234	project gutenberg	02:13
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sivang	I have to run.	02:15
* sivang -> out		02:15
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ssldan	Hello, is there any way I can repair btrfs partition ? It is toshiba nb205 netbook with Meego v1.1 . Kernel can't mount root (/dev/sda2), prints some errors mentioning btrfs and hung.	02:28
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ssldan	I have found Chris Mason's experimentl btrfs-progs unstable git tree - but it can't compile on Fedora at least for me...	02:29
ssldan	on another computer	02:29
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ssldan	that tree should contain btrfsck but last commit was in may 2010...	02:30
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pupnik	hello for you intel folks, avoid airport scanners - there is DNA damage risk	03:24
pupnik	let the retards grope your genitals instead	03:24
pupnik	if you have any questions, contact the institute of human genetics, minneapolis, mn	03:25
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pixelgeek1	:( My breeding days are over anyway...	03:33
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TSCHAKeee	vgrade: once you build a package on OBS, does it have to be submitted to be accessible from a repository?	05:17
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berndhs	good night	07:07
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Termana	morning	09:29
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jbos	morning	09:57
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Stskeeps	REMINDER: nokia n900 adaptation meeting NOW in #meego-meeting, agenda is status and AOB	10:01
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Frye	had to reboot	11:15
Frye	sorry wrong channel :-)	11:15
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vgrade	TSCHAKeee, it should turn up on repo.pub.meego.com. I'm not sure of the process to get it accepted onto repo.mego.com	11:40
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vgrade	Stskeeps, floated the idea of having a sponsor who had main OBS access to commit pacakages from pub OBS	11:41
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tcs-meego	Greetings Dawn! May I know more about the progress of Meego on Smart TV. such as a build status, feature list, reference boards/TVs ?	11:46
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kos_tom	hello. I'm looking for the userspace code that uses the N_GSM0710 GSM muxer in the kernel. I thought it would have been in oFono, but can't seem to find it.	12:08
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* lcuk downloads ubuntu for his ideapad		12:58
lcuk	does anyone know how well it works?	12:59
* timoph is currently using ubuntu on his ideapad		12:59
timoph	at least I don't have any issues with it	12:59
lcuk	oh cool	12:59
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lcuk	I remember when people kept putting ubuntu on n810 and n900 and stuff :)	13:00
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timoph	:)	13:00
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lcuk	timoph, http://www.usmobileindustry.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/conky.jpg	13:01
lcuk	on the n810	13:01
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timoph	that must be a smooth user experience :)	13:02
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lcuk	timoph, it was fun	13:03
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lcuk	Stskeeps, wasn't Mer based on this stuff?	13:04
Stskeeps	no, reverse	13:04
Stskeeps	ubuntu on n8x0 was based on mer efforts	13:04
lcuk	I remember at least one of the Mer videos having a Jaunty about dialog	13:04
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Stskeeps	yes, it was based on ubuntu but the "ubuntu n8x0" stuff was actually mostly ubuntu + mer's hw adaptation stuff	13:06
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lcuk	Stskeeps, nod	13:08
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* lcuk tinkers with uxlaunch on ideapad whilst waiting for n900 to finish dding		13:32
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lcuk	oh my, the touchscreen driver works on daily-testing	14:02
lcuk	i can touch and click stuff :D	14:02
iekku	lcuk, nice :D how does it feel to you?	14:02
iekku	touching...	14:02
iekku	:P	14:02
lcuk	iekku, it is certainly much better today	14:03
iekku	lcuk, that's good to "hear"	14:03
Sage	touch on which device? :)	14:03
lcuk	a bug in the touchscreen on previous days meant that touching one part reacted elsewhere	14:03
Sage	ah, n900 :)	14:04
lcuk	lol	14:04
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niala1	*$	14:04
* Sage thinks the bug was a bit too familiar to him ;)		14:04
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* lcuk marks that bug fixed		14:05
lcuk	yeah Sage	14:05
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zutesmog	any suggestions for a low cost (preferably resistive) tablet for meego app dev?	14:05
zutesmog	8 - 10"	14:06
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lcuk	zutesmog, not fully up, but I have a 10" resistive Lenovo X41, MeeGo boots as far as Xwindows, but the compositor does not appear to start	14:17
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lcuk	errr not resistive	14:17
lcuk	pen touch thingy	14:17
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zutesmog	lcuk: ok thats a start ;-) Touch input is a prerequite. And advice of cash register style app is resistive is more forgiving.	14:19
zutesmog	hopefully trying to find something low cost enough that it's can be virtually throw away. (like a lot of the chinese arm tablets out there ;-)	14:20
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lcuk	yes	14:21
lcuk	why do you not consider capacitive though?	14:21
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lcuk	resistive is good for high precision work	14:21
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zutesmog	there are some samsung cortex A8 devices coming on the market real cheap now,	14:21
lcuk	or are you expecting your users to perhaps have gloves or sticky hands etc	14:21
zutesmog	to be honest not certain on that front. Some suggested resistive was more forgiving. And yep mucky fingers almost garunteed ;-)	14:22
lcuk	i remember being asked to spec up computer stuff for in a distribution warehouse with all sorts of dirt and grime around	14:22
zutesmog	this is around ponds, lilies, fish and general pond slime.	14:23
lcuk	capacitive certainly would not have worked there, because they wanted a console at the driver entrance	14:23
lcuk	ie almost outside	14:23
lcuk	zutesmog, tried using my capacitive in belgium at fosdem outside	14:23
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lcuk	and due to cold fingers it would not work	14:23
zutesmog	;-)	14:23
lcuk	or cold weather	14:23
zutesmog	I find I have trouble using capacitive even in warm weather. something about my fingers . We where doing some experiments on iphone4 and ipod touch and capacitive just didn't work reliably for me.	14:24
lcuk	zutesmog, are you a zombie	14:24
zutesmog	And people could see I was touching in the right spot.	14:24
zutesmog	something like that ;-)	14:24
zutesmog	I have a miele induction hot plat with touch controls and half the time they don't work for me either (I believe they are similiar to capacitive)	14:25
lcuk	yeah, I know that feeling	14:25
zutesmog	/plat/plate/	14:25
zutesmog	s/plat/plate/	14:25
lcuk	once you take technology out of lab conditions etc	14:25
Naranek	splat...	14:26
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RST38h	I guess this is why there are no miele screens in the stores	14:27
zutesmog	;-)	14:27
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zutesmog	yeah they aren't renowned for their display technology	14:27
zutesmog	;-)	14:28
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ubuuntu	Hi, I'd like to have access to OBS.	14:37
zutesmog	it seems there has been a bit of success getting meego up and running on the galaxy tab (incomplete but promising http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-dev@meego.com/msg08268.html)	14:38
lcuk	zutesmog, simon ( lardman ) is extremely active on the #meego-arm channel with the other guys trying best to get it running :)	14:39
zutesmog	and some very similiar spec'd chinese tablets are < $300 Aus. Which makes them very disposable.	14:39
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Stskeeps	zutesmog: the problem is usually always GLES/EGL lack of support	14:39
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zutesmog	cool. Thanks for the heads yo Will check it out,	14:39
lardman	hey	14:39
* lardman would be more active if he had more time		14:39
zutesmog	Though for basic qtquick style app single screen how bad do you think that would be ?	14:40
lardman	The Tab currently lacks input from the touchscreen, I need to work out what's going on with it	14:40
lcuk	\o lardman	14:40
lardman	and that might mean porting forward any Tab kernel patches to a newer kernel that supports xinput2	14:41
lardman	which might take at least half an hour ;)	14:41
lardman	hi lcuk	14:41
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lardman	zutesmog: what hw are you thinking of?	14:46
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zutesmog	got an app for a low cost touch based networked cache register app (walk up to cache drawer if necessary),	14:47
zutesmog	blutooth pocket barcode scanner. (koamtec one is about the size of a zippo)	14:47
zutesmog	a bit like in the apple store. (no need for attached card reader)	14:48
lcuk	hurrah bug 13974 is fixed on n900	14:49
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13974 nor, Undecided, ---, sean.v.kelley, RESO FIXED, N900 Touchscreen input clicking wrong places and generally wrong	14:49
zutesmog	and this hardware is similiar to galaxytab http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SULI-SL-7i-ANDROID-2-2-TABLET-PC-SLATE-FLASH-3G-3D-NEW-/230589306449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35b0319651#ht_8851wt_1141	14:50
zutesmog	and cheap enough that if it gets dropped in a pond it's not the end of the world ;-)	14:50
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zutesmog	cheaper than an N900 ;-)	14:50
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zutesmog	could go android but don't really want to go there.	14:51
lardman	zutesmog: see if it has kernel source available	14:53
lardman	some Android devices don't, in spite of the GPL	14:53
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lardman	not sure I'd buy from ebay anyway mind you, Maplin over here are doing an Android Tablet for ~£100	14:54
lardman	probably pretty crap, but that sort of thing might suit you. /me tries to remember the Australian equivalent	14:54
lardman	800MHz iirc fwiw	14:54
lardman	oh interesting, that one you linked to also has a hummingbird chip	14:55
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lardman	lcuk: do we know what "fixed" that touchscreen problem?	14:56
lcuk	lardman, I will need to generate my logs, I found then relost the bug it was under	14:57
lardman	k	14:57
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nidO	in the UK at least at the real budget end are the advent amico and binatone homesurf 7"	14:59
lardman	how much are those?	14:59
lardman	I could do with some home entertainment hw for the kitchen	14:59
zutesmog	lardman, yeah these cheap ebay units are probably a little sus. a lot advertise 1Ghz arm but it's all old stuff older cpu. So have been keeping an eye out for true cortex a8 in th ehope it might be feasible ;-)	14:59
nidO	both £100 inc VAT	14:59
zutesmog	$AU is pretty close to $US at the moment	15:00
nidO	the amico is a smaller, resistive android 2.1 version of the vega	15:00
lardman	not sure I'm overly keen on the buggeration factor of getting Meego running on them mind you, but I hope it would be easier second time through	15:00
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zutesmog	;-)	15:00
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zutesmog	And the trick as you said is find kernel source, even trying to track down the original manufacturer is hard. But at that price if it works. You can bin them when they get dropped ;-) without it hurting too much.	15:02
lardman	there was a list somewhere of Android tablets + links to their kernel sources, no idea where I saw that	15:03
thiago	I remember seeing that	15:04
lcuk	lardman, Bug 13283	15:04
MeeGoBot	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13283 maj, High, ---, kalle.jokiniemi, RESO FIXED, [TRUNK:TESTING] Wrong touch behaviour while trying to navigate through the items in application grid	15:04
thiago	it was something like 1 in 10 had links	15:04
georgem	I can't wait until the pandaboards are available again.	15:05
* thiago has played with a pandaboard		15:05
thiago	one of the best performances of the qml xbmc	15:05
thiago	it ran better than the tegra2, but the tegra had a much larger screen	15:06
* georgem sneaks behind thiago.		15:06
lardman	lcuk: thanks	15:06
lardman	lcuk: Looks like I need to move to xinput2 then	15:06
lcuk	possibly lardman	15:07
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lcuk	I am still wondering how the heck the bold works	15:07
Stskeeps	'qml xbmc'?	15:07
lcuk	occasionally when copy and paste it makes irc bold	15:07
lcuk	Stskeeps, does xbmc still boot on the xbox?	15:08
Sage	luck: 9.x does ;)	15:08
georgem	I just got an Atom E6xx dev kit :)	15:08
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lcuk	Sage, what version are they upto?	15:09
* lcuk does not have an xbox so never looked into xbmc		15:09
Sage	10.0 is the latest with xbmc	15:09
thiago	Stskeeps: yes	15:09
Sage	lcuk: well I have xbmc packages for meego ;)	15:10
lcuk	cool, how well do they run on my n900 meego?	15:10
lcuk	or is this for grown up computers	15:10
Stskeeps	thiago: ah, cool, didn't know there was a qml one	15:10
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Sage	lcuk: http://sagestechblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/running-xbmc-on-nokia-n900-with-meego.html ;)	15:11
thiago	Stskeeps: http://gitorious.org/qtmediahub	15:11
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nidO	hah, whaddaya know, last nights problem getting the 1.2 tablet ux loaded on this tablet is just the lack of click response on the touchscreen	15:11
Sage	luck: haven't had time to continue from that in a while though. Hoping that I'll get time to polish the guides for that in near future.	15:11
lcuk	Sage, :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D	15:11
Sage	lcuk: "Because I can" (tm) right? :D	15:12
zutesmog	looks like android kernel source is around for S5PV210	15:12
zutesmog	Dec 7, 10 Android Source for Samsung S5PV210 and S5PC110	15:12
zutesmog	oops	15:12
lcuk	Sage, absofuckinglutely	15:12
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lcuk	cya later Sage \o	15:14
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Sage	cya	15:15
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: Cool news on the Developer Edition	15:46
lcuk	very cool indeed jaffa	15:46
Stskeeps	Jaffa: it does show some involvement regarding meego.com, at least :)	15:46
lcuk	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition	15:46
* Jaffa can use his N900 spare (used for CSSU clean testing) for this too :-)		15:46
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lcuk	Jaffa, ;) this is nothing new :P just a better description and prioritisation of things	15:47
lcuk	ie you could have been using yours all the time and pushing for such things :P	15:47
Jaffa	lcuk: Indeed, but it wasn't anywhere near good enough for me to use, spend limited time on and I didn't have a spare N900.	15:49
Jaffa	For example, if the Dev Ed. is supposed to be "perfect", and writing the image to the eMMC provides Maemo 5 levels of performance (or better), it should be done. Rather than relying on MicroSD card which gives variable results.	15:50
Stskeeps	in practice emmc doesn't give too much difference :P	15:51
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georgem	Is anyone out there using pch_gbe on E6xx hardware?	15:56
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lcuk	Jaffa, Stskeeps - even without the eMMC boot, simplifying what is dualboot would be drastically required - I still see page after page of complex instructions	15:57
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sivang	hi all	16:32
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georgem	hi	16:33
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georgem	Are there bootable images available for the MeeGo trunk builds?	16:53
Stskeeps	weekly, at least	16:53
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georgem	Stskeeps: I can't seem to find them in: http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Netbook/weekly/	16:53
Stskeeps	dont go there, repo.meego.com	16:53
georgem	ok. thanks. thats what I was looking for.	16:54
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georgem	Hrm. Maybe I need IVI instead of netbook for Atom E6xx?	17:00
georgem	I'll try that too.	17:00
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jedix	E6xx?	17:00
* jedix only knows codenames		17:00
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georgem	Tunnel Creek	17:01
timeless_office	stskeeps: how do i find out where a bug should be filed? :)	17:01
sivang	timeless_office: no mbp? :)	17:01
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sivang	heh	17:02
timeless_mbp	so, _mbp meant <irc client running on mbp which walks with timeless from home to work and back>	17:02
sivang	timeless_mbp: fighting with the wonderful meego bugzilla?	17:02
timeless_mbp	_office means <tethered to a usb cradle @ _office and can't move>	17:02
sivang	ah	17:02
sivang	k, /me notes	17:02
timeless_mbp	it's also not using a real irc client, just a web interface	17:02
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sivang	yep, so the hostname shows	17:03
timeless_mbp	the key point though is that you can't expect me to see your message when i'm not here	17:03
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timeless_mbp	oh, that's stupid	17:03
sivang	Well, I couldn't afford my server anymore so I can't stay online away anymore as wel :)	17:03
* timeless_mbp kicks webchat		17:03
sivang	anyway - I'm not really here	17:04
sivang	I have to run	17:04
sivang	see you all alter, great announcement for the DE	17:04
timeless_mbp	i got your email, i need to find a calendar	17:04
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sivang	timeless_mbp: let me know when you do, given DE this s getting even MORE Important now	17:04
sivang	timeless_office: I tried to find the talk link	17:04
sivang	timeless_office: but the wonderful desktopsummit.org drupal would not let me, so you can see what I submitted	17:04
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sivang	anywa	17:05
sivang	back later	17:05
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timeless_office	hey, who runs bugs.meego.com?	17:06
timeless_office	there's a feature there which is hurting me ;(	17:06
timeless_office	andre: ping	17:07
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andre__	timeless_office, pong?	17:07
timeless_office	andre: so, bugs.meego seems to be running with a "you can't resolve a bug with unresolved blockers"	17:07
jedix	georgem: I think the kernel supports the processor, but the board specific support might be lacking.. depending on what yours is	17:07
timeless_office	this also means "you can't remove a dependency to a bug with blockers"	17:07
andre__	timeless_office, maybe	17:08
andre__	file a bug	17:08
timeless_office	this is really painful	17:08
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jedix	..a bug with dependencies!	17:10
jedix	:P	17:10
timeless_office	jedix: consider	17:10
timeless_office	bug A adds a check which results in a report (bug B)	17:10
timeless_office	in filing bug B, you want to say "this bug is the result of bug A"	17:10
georgem	jedix: ok, we'll see. I'm trying to add support for Tunnel Creek to my embedded distro and pch_gbe isn't working on my dev kit's ethernet port properly. I just want to see if it works on some version of MeeGo :)	17:10
timeless_office	you don't want to say "you can't resolve bug A until bug B is fixed"	17:11
timeless_office	A doesn't depend on B	17:11
timeless_office	but practically speaking, if A is rejected, then perhaps B isn't a bug, in which case A quasi-blocks B	17:11
timeless_office	and you do want all assignees of bugs B (B1...Bn) to be able to read bug A to understand what they're fixing	17:12
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jedix	right.. so you put that in a comment?	17:13
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jedix	georgem: what's the IO hub?	17:14
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jedix	ST or Oki?	17:14
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timeless_office	?	17:15
jedix	georgem: who makes the board?	17:15
georgem	jedix: Eurotech, Catalyst TC	17:15
georgem	jedix: Their docs say Intel PCH EG20T.	17:15
timeless_office	jedix: the other thing is that w/o it, you can't draw pretty pictures: https://bugs.meego.com/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=13965&showsummary=on&display=web&rankdir=RL	17:15
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jedix	timeless_office: ah, the pretty pictures are very important sometimes.	17:16
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* timeless_office wonders if you can have [unresolved] => [resolved] => [unresolved]		17:16
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jedix	georgem: pm	17:17
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* georgem starts peeling stickers off BGAs		17:17
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georgem	I see an Intel Chip marked with CS82TPCF	17:19
jedix	georgem: did you see my private message?	17:20
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georgem	jedix: I see it now, sorry.	17:20
jedix	georgem: the PCH EG20T is Oki general purpose I/O hub	17:20
ubuuntu	Hi I am trying to get access to OBS, can anybody help?	17:21
jedix	georgem: drivers are submitted for the Oki go general purpose I/O.. there are some pending drivers I believe	17:22
jedix	s/go/for/	17:23
infobot	jedix meant: georgem: drivers are submitted for the Oki for general purpose I/O.. there are some pending drivers I believe	17:23
georgem	jedix: I believe the pch_gbe is for the oki. It's littered with okisemi email addresses. Something is screwed though because it's sending out junk on my distro/kernel.	17:24
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jedix	georgem: what kerenl?	17:25
jedix	I don't believe all drivers are submitted, so not everythign will work	17:25
georgem	jedix: 2.6.33.7.2-rt30.	17:27
georgem	jedix: I back ported pch_gbe from 2.6 tip. Maybe I screwed something up.	17:27
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jedix	georgem: ah.. maybe, or you're hitting the missing drivers.	17:28
georgem	possibly.	17:28
jedix	what;s the `junk` that you're seeing?	17:28
ali1234	timeless_office: well, this is what i was saying the other day. if you could report a bug against an explicit list of packages, instead of some vague component that doesn't mean anything, this would not be a problem, and you would only need to do one bug report	17:28
timeless_office	why would i only need one report?	17:29
ali1234	assuming bug A is "rpmlint needs additional checks" and bug B is "now my spec file broke" x 100	17:29
timeless_office	i'm pretty sure i need 46+1 bugs	17:30
georgem	jedix: I hook it up on a private lan with a netbook and I have the netbook run tcpdump. I ping the netbook from the tunnel creek and I see a bunch of protocol: unknown as well as strange MAC addresses. I might try looking at it in wireshark, tcpdump kinda sucks.	17:30
ali1234	i would rephrase bug A as "many packages have poor spec files", open that bug against all affected package, and then mark any bug Bs as dupes of bug A	17:30
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timeless_office	yeah, that's useless	17:31
timeless_office	it becomes impossible to resolve 'A'	17:31
timeless_office	i'd claim 99% of all packages have poor spec files	17:31
jedix	georgem: ah, so it's the network device that's throwing out unknown stuff.. yeah, check wireshark	17:31
ali1234	well yeah	17:31
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ali1234	so what? if the bug never gets resolved... tough	17:31
ali1234	if the bug is hard to fix, does not mean it is not a bug	17:31
timeless_office	my complaint is only about hrm. 3% of all packages	17:32
timeless_office	ali: each of managers, engineers and reporters appreciates having bugs resolved	17:32
timeless_office	it's hard for an engineer to show they've accomplished something if they can't point to resolved bugs	17:32
ali1234	oh, so we should fill bugzilla with fluff bugs so they can feel good about themselves?	17:32
timeless_office	yes.	17:32
ali1234	i disagree	17:32
timeless_office	it's hard for a reporter to see something has changed if there's just a long incomprehensible comment spew	17:33
timeless_office	bugs should be as bite sized as possible	17:33
ali1234	this is bitesize	17:33
ali1234	it just needs fixing in a lot of places	17:33
timeless_office	but it's likely that some won't get fixed	17:33
timeless_office	and it's better to be able to quickly determine which those are	17:34
ali1234	well, ok, i see what you're saying	17:34
timeless_office	you can't do that if there's only one bug	17:34
timeless_office	:)	17:34
ali1234	if you can't fix 1 package and then close something, it feels like a never ending task	17:34
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ali1234	although i would point out, on launchpad you can mark the bug as fixed for a single affected package, of which there can be many, all on a single bug report	17:34
bash`	hi all	17:34
georgem	I've gotta boot my netbook back into my distro at least it has wireshark :)	17:35
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ali1234	anyway, can't you just add bug A to the "see also" section, instead of making it a blocker?	17:35
bash`	I am trying to build meego from git, but X starts with a white screen, mouse cursor is there, but there is nothing else. I am using Arch Linux. here the uxlaunch log: http://pastebin.com/tsKb3LZ8 Any help?	17:36
bash`	or suggestion?	17:36
bash`	btw, who provide com.meego.UX.Shell.Toolbar?	17:37
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timeless_office	ali: yeah, i could	17:43
timeless_office	but see also isn't bidirectional	17:44
timeless_office	which means you have a rather lame picture and doing updates is painful	17:44
ali1234	what if the dependency is the other way around, ie A can't be closed until all Bs are fixed?	17:44
timeless_office	that's bad	17:44
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timeless_office	because i want the guy who integrates the fix for A to be able to integrate the fix for A and indicate it's fixed	17:44
timeless_office	the right relation is actually:	17:45
ali1234	ok, how about if there's A, B and C, and C depends on A and all Bs	17:45
timeless_office	A [implement check] ; Bn {blocks} A' [deploy A]	17:45
timeless_office	with a see also relation between A and A'	17:45
timeless_office	actually, i think i can do better than a see also relation	17:46
timeless_office	because A obviously blocks A' :)	17:46
timeless_office	and in this case, A' is really C, since it's fixing another package (rpmlint-Moblin) to trip the check	17:46
timeless_office	which is in fact the conclusion you just reached. Yay!	17:47
timeless_office	ok	17:47
* timeless_office goes to write C (A')		17:47
ali1234	A is the fix to rpmlint, C would be a meta bug that describes the whole point of all the other bugs	17:47
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timeless_office	well, i still need a bug to fix rpmlint-Moblin	17:48
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jedix	oh the time I wasted on rpmlint debugging	17:48
timeless_office	jedix: what were you doing?	17:49
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jedix	timeless_office: replicating OBS to build against another toolchain and add packages that are not allowed outside to play :/	17:50
timeless_office	jedix: i'm trying very hard to avoid doing that	17:52
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timeless_office	w/o fixing rpmlint, i risk having to set up my own totally hacked obs	17:52
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jedix	timeless_office: yeah, there are some people we deal with who are over paranoid about source	17:54
timeless_office	in my case, i will have people paranoid about arbitrary code execution on a box they supervise	17:54
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timeless_office	so my goal is to prevent that	17:55
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georgem	Coooool! Ethernet on my tunnel creek works on the newest ivi build. Now I just have to download the kernel source and figure out whats different.	19:54
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timeless_office	anyone here from meego it? it feels like the jump host is unhappy	20:12
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* CosmoHill pokes timeless_office		20:17
timeless_office	?	20:17
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timeless_office	yes?	20:17
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CosmoHill	I thought you wanted someone to ping you to show you had connectivity	20:17
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timeless_office	cosmohill: only if you're on the jump host	20:18
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CosmoHill	jump.freenode.net?	20:18
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timeless_office	cosmo: no, meego's internal network	20:45
timeless_office	DawnFoster: anyone from IT around?	20:45
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ngharo	btrfs has been a monkey on my back	20:48
patzaks	Hello	20:48
ngharo	free space quirks are incredibly awful	20:48
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ngharo	i'm taring up / and formatting to ext4 this afternoon!	20:48
patzaks	can anybody tell short introduction to MEEGO version	20:48
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timeless_office	??	20:49
ngharo	patzaks: what do you mean?	20:49
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patzaks	i dont kno much about meego	20:49
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timeless_office	http://meego.com/about/faq ?	20:50
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patzaks	i kno it's linux distribution	20:50
timeless_office	it isn't really	20:50
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timeless_office	it's more of an umbrella project	20:50
patzaks	but not yet seen much around me	20:50
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patzaks	tht's y	20:50
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ngharo	patzaks: you can download live USB images and give it a try	20:51
patzaks	ok	20:51
patzaks	<ngharo> is it stable	20:51
ngharo	i've had no major problems	20:52
ngharo	except file system quirks >_>	20:52
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patzaks	yeah , tht's fine	20:52
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patzaks	thank u v. much dude	20:52
ngharo	runs great on my atom netbook	20:52
ngharo	np, good luck	20:52
patzaks	by the way what do u do by profession?	20:53
ngharo	i'm a pro IRC lurker	20:53
ngharo	oh and do some development here and there :)	20:53
patzaks	tht sounds gr8..!!	20:54
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patzaks	bye	20:54
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lcuk3	on this day, 36 years ago - the homebrew computer club had its first meeting :) http://www.computerhistory.org/tdih/March/3/	20:56
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lcuk3	oh my, after only N months of stress, the little hole for my stylus now correctly accepts a stylus again :D	22:01
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* lcuk3 slides his stylus in and out without hearing scraping scratching noises		22:01
* Cosmo[PB] fixes GMP on his uni's HPC and grumbles		22:02
*** Cosmo[PB] is now known as CosmoHill		22:02
lcuk3	:D CosmoHill	22:02
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CosmoHill	gmp is installed, gmp-devel is not	22:02
CosmoHill	/opt/gmp-4.2.4 has some kinda mess, looks like the gmp source directory	22:03
CosmoHill	ffs, bloody slave nodes don't have g++	22:04
lcuk3	heh dependencies always need installing	22:05
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CosmoHill	gmp won't install unless you have G++ cos I enabled c++ cos that's what the head has	22:09
CosmoHill	lcuk3: http://linuxfromscratch.pastebin.com/69YVDa3W	22:09
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lcuk3	nice	22:14
* lcuk3 >>>>>		22:14
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lcuk3	#pubtime (not #meego-bar)	22:14
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jasonlife	will a binary of xorg video driver built on Ubuntu 10.04 work with MeeGo ?	23:44
jonnor	jasonlife: possible but unlikely, there are several ABIs that needs to match that move quite frequently	23:45
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jonnor	primary prerequisites are matching versions of kernel and xorg-server	23:46
jasonlife	I noticed Meego is using xorg 1.9.x..	23:47
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jonnor	unless you have a driver which has a recompilable kernel module, in which case only the API needs to be the same for the relevant parts	23:48
jonnor	you still need matching ABI for xorg	23:48
jonnor	jasonlife: what problem are you trying to solve?	23:48
jasonlife	jonnor: nothing serious for now,, but I just want to know that the driver I built on 10.04 is compatible with MeeGo..	23:49
jasonlife	I will try this once I have a chance and let you know..	23:49
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berndhs	i need a toothbrush designer	23:51
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CosmoHill	lcuk3: I can also copied Jon's compile script to /bin and renamed the copy jcp instead of compile.sh (which stands for Jon compile, in honour of its author), so it should be visible as it's in everyone's path.	23:57
CosmoHill	An email from my lecturer :)	23:57
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