IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2011-02-21

« Sunday, 2011-02-20 Index Tuesday, 2011-02-22 »
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newbie007Greetings, I'm wondering if anyone has gotten meego working on a specific tablet? it's called "Nook Color" arm based00:15
microlithhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=215000:15
microlithI don't think anyone's kicked it off, but due to the hardware similarities it's probably an easier target than most00:16
newbie007wow thanks00:16
newbie007can you describe meego at all?00:17
microlith"infrastructure"00:17
microlithall the system level bits needed that make up a good OS00:18
microlithon top of which vendors and open source users can create whatever they want for a mobile device00:18
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newbie007huh thanks, I think I'm going to give it a shot.00:19
MindWarperi friend of mine tells me that in the future all intel processors are going to have meggo inbebed in their code something similar to slashtop is this true ?00:19
newbie007I noticed the google sdk and plugins really got the programmer up to speed quickly (emulator, visual editing) does maemo have anything similar ?00:20
MindWarperits going to power their VPRO feature00:20
thiago_homeyou'd have to ask someone from intel00:20
thiago_homeand I doubt they'd answer00:20
newbie007that is scary to me, it's a backdoor00:20
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microlithnewbie007: the SDK provides qemu support, code editor is up to you00:21
thiago_homenewbie007: the meego sdk is getting that too00:21
thiago_homesimulator, visual editor, C++ editor, cross compiler, deployment tools00:21
newbie007it allows the fbi to plug in a device which can override the OS00:21
newbie007thanks, I'm going to check it out00:22
microlithnewbie007: no no no, if that's true then the expressgate install on my motherboard would be a backdoor. instead, it's useless at its intended purpose ;)00:22
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MindWarperwhats expressgate ?00:23
microlithMindWarper: it's a pre-boot, linux-based environment that ASUS included on a number of their motherboards00:23
microlithsome have it stored on the hard disk, others on the motherboard itself00:23
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MindWarperits the same has slashtop00:23
microlithoh, you mean "splashtop"00:24
microlithyes00:24
microlithintel would have to get motherboard vendors to buy in on it.00:24
microliththey're having a hard enough time pushing UEFI as it is...00:24
MindWarperyou know intel = inteligence00:25
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microlithMindWarper: Intel was founded on July 18, 1968, as Integrated Electronics Corporation (though a common misconception is that "Intel" is from the word intelligence)00:29
microlithIntel was founded on July 18, 1968, as Integrated Electronics Corporation (though a common misconception is that "Intel" is from the word intelligence)00:29
microlitherr00:29
MindWarperim beting whatson is loggin in on this channel has we speak :X00:29
microlithhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel00:29
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MindWarperits great to know that there are all this wealth of smart computer programs that are kept in secret because of the damn terrorist they cant be aloud to fall in the wrong hands ...00:33
microlithexcept that makes no sense ;)00:33
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MindWarperi guess thats why we are moving once again into the mainframe era00:34
MindWarpermainframe is such an ugly word lets call it cloud computing instead :)00:35
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MindWarperhttp://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/02/virtual-private-servers.ars00:41
MindWarperits the new gold mine of inteligence00:41
* TSCHAKeee rolls his @#($@ eyes00:42
TSCHAKeeethe world has A.D.D.00:42
TSCHAKeeeand a terrible memory00:42
MindWarperwhats aDD ?00:42
CosmoHillAttention Deficit Disorder00:43
TSCHAKeeeAttention Deficit Disorder00:43
MindWarperso what else is new ?00:43
CosmoHillI win00:43
thiago_homecome again?00:43
thiago_home:-P00:43
berndhsthe internet - as ubiquitous as your monthly payments00:43
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pupnik_Stskeeps: topic00:49
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Dijithm01:18
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Dijitanyone know why:01:18
Dijituse = Popen(["ps", "aux|", "awk '/chromium[-browser]/{total+=$4}END{print total}'"])01:18
Dijitoutput = use.communicate()[0]01:18
Dijithas the output of "None"01:18
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DijitI know it's an ugly thing, but..01:19
* Dijit shrugs01:19
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CosmoHilltry splitting the command into smaller commands and testing them01:23
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jonnorDijit: don't use awk when you have python available01:35
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jonnorDijit: also, Popen does not run the process in a shell by default01:36
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Dijitdamndamndamn01:36
DijitI'm slowly learning python01:36
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CosmoHillcyas02:44
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TSCHAKeeelbt: seriously man, wth? I've had a package submission in OBS for the last 11 days. I'd like to try and get Orbiter building on OBS sometime this year. :(08:24
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Alison_ChaikenWho else will be at Southern California Linux Expo next weekend?08:50
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lbtTSCHAKeee: eh09:10
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lbtTSCHAKeee: ah.... I see. The policy for Extras isn't sorted yet09:12
lbtit certainly isn't "me"09:12
lbtit's essentially the maemo QA process ported to meego09:12
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TSCHAKeeelbt: so what should I do?09:19
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: help form the process that's supposed to handle it. Can't you build your dependancies in your local repo too?09:20
TSCHAKeeelbt: i have 4-5 dependencies i need working.09:20
lbtTSCHAKeee: the whole 'Extras' thing is a community effort09:20
Stskeepsi mean, builds pick up packages from same project they're in09:20
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TSCHAKeeei keep getting unresolved packages for things I am trying to build..even though they are in my user directory...are they all supposed to be in the same project?09:21
lbtyou can create have multiple packages in each home project09:21
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: that sounds odd09:21
lbtit does09:21
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: what's your "use for build" flag set to? (click advanced, then raw config, and pastebin that)09:21
lbtyou have to actively enable a special option to ....09:22
lbtyeah, what Stskeeps said09:22
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TSCHAKeeeok, i'll try it tomorrow09:22
TSCHAKeeeit's 2am here.09:22
TSCHAKeeethanks.09:22
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lbtOK... it's a jetlagged  07:20 / 23:20 here :)09:23
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ali1234i'm poking around in the intel tablet stuff11:11
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ali1234it's all done with flat qml files, apache licensed11:12
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ali1234looks like it would be very easy to add new panels11:16
ali1234unlike on the netbook ux11:16
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lcukali1234, awesome which repository are you looking in?11:17
ali1234i'm not looking in any repository11:17
slaineI assume the table image fs11:17
ali1234i'm looking in the image itslf11:17
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ali1234in /usr/share/meego-ux-panels is all the qml files11:18
obit_swedenGuess it shows some of the strengths of qml. I think the ui are quite responsive11:18
ali1234yeah, really fast11:18
ali1234but, i can't see any way to resize the whole thing11:18
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lcukis it possible to scale the whole outer element11:19
lcukso everything is relative to that one?11:19
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ali1234maybe11:20
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obit_swedenlcuk: What do you mean by resize ?11:21
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obit_swedenYou can always use the scale for top11:21
ali1234i just want to make the fonts smaller11:21
lcukobit_sweden, well since ali1234 just said "<ali1234> but, i can't see any way to resize the whole thing"11:22
obit_swedenput scale: 0.5 in top element11:22
ali1234in which file?11:22
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ali1234obit_sweden: made no difference11:26
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obit_swedenali1234: Can you find any top/root qml file ? I haven't looked at the files included in the tablet ui yet will have a look at it tonight.11:26
ali1234there is one called main.qml11:26
obit_swedenOk in standard qml you just put scale: [factor] in top element11:27
ali1234oh, ok, changes were not saved over reboot11:27
obit_swedenThey could however start it from c app and then make it resize to fit screen11:27
ali1234i guess i need to install this11:27
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obit_swedenif you try to make the changes without reboot and just restart x instead you could see if that makes what u want11:29
obit_swedenAre u running it on a livecd or ?11:30
ali1234yes11:31
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ali1234obit_sweden: this isn't exactly what i had in mind: http://imagebin.org/13901911:41
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lcukali1234, snap! http://liqbase.net/liq.meego.handset.on.x200s.20110221_001.jpg11:43
lcukbut from different UX image11:43
ali1234yes11:43
lcuk(related to bug 12455)11:44
ali1234but for a totally different reason11:44
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12455 nor, Medium, ---, jesse.barnes, NEW, Displayed UI does not adapt to available screen resolution11:44
lcukyep11:44
ali1234this one adapts to screen size by scaling the whole thing11:44
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lcukyeah ali1234 I know11:44
ali1234are there any images of what this is supposed to look like?11:45
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lcukali1234, I would guess it should look the same no matter how many pixels it was displayed on11:45
ali1234then it looks really bad, the way there's a gap at the top of panels, but at the bottom they go off the screen11:46
lcukie exactly how it looked before you started messing!?11:46
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niala'ning11:49
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ali1234getting closer...12:05
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ali1234http://imagebin.org/13902312:09
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ali1234scaling the panelsContainer makes gestures fail to work, because their regions are all done in pixels12:15
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ali1234hmm qml is kind of... horribly broken12:36
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thiagoali1234: why do you say that?12:50
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ali1234meego of the way things like scale and object size interact12:50
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ali1234*because12:50
ali1234say you have a object of size 100x10012:51
ali1234and an object inside that object with scale: 0.5 and anchor.fill: parent12:51
ali1234it won't be the same size as the parent, it will be 50x5012:51
ali1234or say you have an object 100x100 and inside it an object with scale 0.5 and height: parent.height and width: parent.width. what size do you think that object will be?12:52
ali1234it ends up 50x5012:52
fralsit takes the parentsize and since you put a scale there it scales it down12:52
ali1234yes12:52
fralsmakes sense to me12:53
ali1234but sub objects inherit both the scale 0.5 and the scaled size of the parent12:53
ali1234so if you nest a third object like that it ends up being 25x2512:53
ali1234essentially the scaling is inherited twice12:54
fralsyeah, its half the size of its parent... still making sense here :o12:54
ali1234so you can't just scale the top level object12:54
jonnoreverything is relative to the parent12:54
ali1234you then have to go and add scale: 1.0 to all the children otherwise everything explodes12:54
jonnorBut use anchor layouts instead of sizes in most cases12:54
ali1234yeah... anchor layouts suffer from the same problems12:55
jonnorI don't see the problem12:56
ali1234you can't use anchor.fill: parent if the parent is scaled, because it won't do what you expect12:56
* ahiemstra does not see the problem either12:56
jonnorMight want to show code12:56
ahiemstrathen again, I come from a game/3d development direction where this behaviour is precisely what you want12:57
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ali1234i have never seen a scene grapth where scaling the top level scene node by 0.5 scales all the children by 0.5*0.5 and all the children's children by 0.5*0.5&0.5 etc12:58
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ahiemstrawell, that's a point, in most scene graphs the scaling is not inherited in that sense12:59
ahiemstraif that's the only issue though... pointing the trolls at it might help13:00
timelesshello slaine13:00
slainetimeless: hello there13:00
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ali1234what's the quickest way to restart X on meego?13:02
jonnor"initctl restart xsession" probably13:03
ali1234initctl: command not found13:03
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jonnorali1234: what meego are you running?13:04
ali1234meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.1.90.2.20110209.413:04
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jonnorI didn't think they had switched away from upstart already..13:04
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jonnoryou want to use systemctl then, most likely13:05
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jonnorDon't know what the appropriate service name is though13:05
ali1234upstart uses "service" not "initctl"13:05
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ali1234there's no xsession service however13:06
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ali1234no "systemctl" either13:06
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ali1234"killall uxlaunch" seems to do the job13:07
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ali1234although it spams all the consoles with annoying messages13:08
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Stskeepswe're not using upstart, we're using fastinit atm13:12
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vljhi13:34
vljRST38h: ping13:34
vljvgrade: ping13:34
Stskeepswhy are you pinging people all the time? :P13:35
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vljbecause I have questions for them :p13:36
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vljI see vgrade has managed to get meego 1.1 working on joggler13:36
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vljI would like to know if he tweaked xorg to do that13:37
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Stskeepswhy would you?13:37
vljand I have an issue in my hdr algorithm...would like to ask people of libquill for their opinion on the subject13:37
vljbecause I have a gma 500 powered netbook13:37
Stskeepsmeego 1.1 = xorg 1.9, i believe13:38
vljand the best I had with meego is to launch twm on it....13:38
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vljStskeeps: there is a revamped edition of emgd drivers13:39
Stskeepsi know13:39
vljit supports xorg 1.913:40
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arfollvlj, have you looked at vgrade's ks? it shoudl answer your questions13:42
vljhe use his own rpm for kernel :/13:43
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arfollyes and you can look at his spec, he builds on pub meego obs13:43
arfollanyways you can't 'tweak xorg' from the kernel ;-)13:44
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andreizrohy all14:05
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andreizroI have a local OBS set-up where I've imported the MeeGo 1.1 release. I can build just fine for  i586, but I'm having some problems for armv7el14:06
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andreizroI get14:08
andreizro"""14:08
andreizrorunning aaa-meego-accelerator postinstall script14:08
andreizrochroot: cannot run command `sh': Exec format error14:08
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andreizrorunning bash-x86-arm postinstall script14:08
andreizrochroot: cannot run command`sh': Exec format error14:08
andreizroinitializing rpm db...14:08
andreizrochroot: cannot run command `rpm': Exec format error14:08
andreizro"""14:08
Stskeepsandreizro: you need to install qemu too14:09
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andreizrook I thought it looks like the qemu-user / qemu-arm issue, but I was unsure14:10
andreizrothanks14:10
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styxnsoonFolks, this is confusing. I am sure my UMTS-Dongle, Huawei E220/E270, was already recognized on a MeeGo system I am trying to polish. Now I got the data I need to enter in connman, but the dongle disappeared. And, more frustrating, I cant find the Howto I followed to make it work... Any guesses where to start looking? Or even a solution?14:26
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styxnsoonSomeone somewhere wrote it has to be attached while booting, been there, tried that14:26
styxnsoonI even tried with all usb ports, no one will ever know why.14:27
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styxnsoonIf someone wants me to go through any testing, I got a second netbook running MeeGo and a second dongle, no combination works AFAIS.14:29
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arfollstyxnsoon, have you tried lsusb?14:31
styxnsoonarfoll, the stick is being recognized properly14:31
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arfollstyxnsoon, have you looked at the logs?14:32
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styxnsoonBus 001 Device 005: ID 12d1:somenumber Huawei Technologies CO., Ltd. E220 HSDPA Modem / E270 HSDPA/HSUPA Modem14:32
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styxnsoonarfoll, which log do you want me to have a look at?14:33
styxnsoonarfoll, i didnt14:33
arfoll/var/log/syslog14:33
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arfollthat's where connmand should log things14:33
styxnsoonarfoll, no such file14:34
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styxnsoonarfoll, it should be there, shouldnt it?14:36
styxnsoonarfoll, can i turn logging on somewhere?14:36
arfollwait just booted my netbook14:36
styxnsoonthx14:36
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arfollstyxnsoon, kill connmand then restart with -d14:39
arfolldebug should be in /var/log/messages14:39
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styxnsoonarfoll, stupid question, how do i print the whole file to the console?14:42
styxnsoonarfoll, couldnt see anything suspicious in tail14:42
arfollstyxnsoon, i recommend tail -n14:42
arfollbut you can use cat to print the entire thing14:43
styxnsooncat was the command im looking for14:43
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styxnsooncat with grep connmand is still too much14:44
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styxnsooncan i view that page per page14:44
styxnsoonsorry this is becoming a linux-noob briefing14:45
arfollpipe your grep output to less14:45
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styxnsoona charm14:45
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arfollbtw you dont need cat if you use grep ;-)14:45
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arfollgrep /var/log/messages connmand | less14:46
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arfolldamned otherway round for connmand & messages14:46
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styxnsoonarfoll, there seems to be nothing regarding an UMTS-connection14:49
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arfollstyxnsoon, try killing and starting ofono with -d14:51
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styxnsoonarfoll, the only line suspicious is: "dbus-daemon: [system] Rejected send message, 4 matched rules; [...] (uid=0 pid=413 comm="/usr/sbin/connmand))14:51
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arfollstyxnsoon, try the ofonod restart and look at the log entries for it, maybe it's just a permission error14:53
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styxnsoonarfoll, im doing all this as root, should I?14:54
arfollstyxnsoon, yes connmand runs as root14:55
arfolland so does ofonod14:55
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styxnsoonarfoll, nice pick, I think we found some error: "klogd: [    63.0201393] ofonod[484]: segfault at 10 ip 080c0dba sp bfea3ae0 error 4 in ofonod[8048000+bb000]]14:57
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arfollyeah that doesnt look too good14:57
styxnsoonit is oFono 0.2614:57
arfollhttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.1.20110201.1/core/repos/ia32/packages/i586/14:58
arfollstyxnsoon, maybe try 0.39 which is the latest14:58
arfollmight be worth reinstalling a full meego 1.1.90 instead of just one package (or connmand as well)14:59
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arfollmake sure to file a bug report especially if the problem dissapears with a later of ofono14:59
arfollso it can be fixed in later versions of 1.1.x15:00
styxnsoonarfoll, where can i fetch a pre-built installer for 1.1.90?15:00
styxnsoonarfoll, this will run stable, wont it? because i am trying to get this to work for my grandmother, her typewriter is not buggy ;)15:01
arfollstyxnsoon, here is the latest image - http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.3.20110215.10/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/15:01
arfollstyxnsoon, ah... you want stable? then maybe try intalling the ofono rpm first, see if that works if not install the connman rpm as well15:02
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arfollyour a brave man if you are giving meego to your grandmother15:02
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ali1234http://imagebin.org/13904315:03
styxnsoonarfoll, had a look at winxp? i am going to have much less to explain :)15:03
Stskeepsali1234: nice :)15:03
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arfollali1234, just read your post very nice!15:03
ali1234you'll have to diff against the original to see how it works, i forgot to back mine up15:04
ali1234i'm not sure if this was so difficult because QML sucks, or because this particular example of using QML sucks15:04
styxnsoonarfoll, how do i upgrade a specific package in meego? I am glad to have found out the package-manager is called zypper...15:05
arfollstyxnsoon, download the rpm and install with rpm -ivh15:05
styxnsoonso wget and rpm15:05
arfollyep15:05
ali1234the whole thing reminded me of css position:absolute problems, where you keep having to add a pixel here, remove a pixel there, to get it to look right15:05
arfollali1234, stop trying to put me off making my first qml app!15:06
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ali1234also, like i said, this won't affect anything but the panels, the browser will still have huge text for example15:08
Venemonews: http://www.liewcf.com/fujitsu-lifebook-mh330-meego-netbook-6938/15:09
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styxnsoonarfoll, i have to remove the old ofono first, right? rpm throws up some conflicts15:10
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styxnsoonarfoll, zypper remove ofono?15:11
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styxnsoonarfoll, that was a bad idea of me :/ this command would remove 92 packages, freeing 132.3MiB15:12
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styxnsoonarfoll, i decided to install MeeGo from the image you provided15:19
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styxnsoonIf i got no large microSD, im out of luck if I want to install MeeGo on my N900, right?15:32
lardman2Gb+15:33
lardmanis not overly large15:33
styxnsoonI could live WITHOUT multi-boot...15:33
styxnsoonlardman, the only card i got is 256MB :(15:33
lardmanold-skool ;)15:33
lardmanyou should be able to pick up a 4Gb card for ~£515:33
styxnsoonand if i wanted to buy one, I would go for the fast cards, and they arent that cheap...15:34
leinirstyxnsoon: it's less the size, it's much, much more important about the speed :)15:34
lardmanthough you'd be better going for the fastest card possible15:34
styxnsoonleinir, thats what i thought :)15:34
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leiniranything that cheap is going to be class 2 and thus sort of dog slow ;)15:34
styxnsooni need class 6 or 8?!15:34
styxnsooncant remember, sry15:34
leinirWell, faster is better, really :)15:34
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leinirthough... i wonder if the bus is capable of pulling more than 6MB/s15:35
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styxnsoonAny way to install MeeGo on N900 NAND15:35
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styxnsoon?15:35
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lardmanon the eMMC yes, though not sure whether there are instructions about15:35
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styxnsoonthat was my problem... I would try though. I can dd my current filesystem, so nothing catastrophal should happen15:36
styxnsoonlardman, isnt the N900 divided in 2 storage media? One for OS, flying fast, and one for my music and pictures ASOASF15:37
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lardmanthere is flash and an internal mmc card, yes15:37
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lardmanI'm sure it would be possible to install to the internal flash, but there are no instructions, it's not supported as the Meego image is not day-to-day usable (that's my understanding for why)15:38
ali1234meego won't fit on the internal flash iirc15:38
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ali1234it has to be emmc15:39
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styxnsoonWould it be good or bad to install MeeGo on eMMC? Meaning, will it be faster/slower?15:41
andre__styxnsoon, than what?15:41
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styxnsoonandre__, than a microSD install15:42
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styxnsoonon a reasonably fast microSD.15:42
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styxnsooni am just installing meego 1.1.90 on a netbook, i got another one that is running MeeGo 1.1. Can I tell MeeGo, if yes, how, to update to 1.1.90? I got some configuration done and would rather upgrade than reinstall.16:01
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jonnorstyxnsoon: http://wiki.meego.com/Upgrading_MeeGo_Versions16:03
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styxnsoonjonnor, thanks16:04
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styxnsoonMeeGo takes quite long to check my account password. If i don't encrypt the data, there's an option in installer, will it be faster? The password still wont lay around somewhere in plaintext, will it?16:07
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jonnorstyxnsoon: no, passwords for users in linux is never stored in plaintext16:12
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jonnorstyxnsoon: it _might_ be that the thing that is taking long is the unlocking of the luks volume, in which case it would be faster, yes16:13
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jonnorluks unlocking usually takes about 2 seconds (the key is checked X times to make the time spent constant, for sequrity purposes)16:14
styxnsoonjonnor, thats my experience. 2s are quite long in comparison to the overall boot performance... Its like 1/8 of boot time.16:15
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jonnorstyxnsoon: yes, I know. The maintainers has been prodded about the issue, but were as I understand not very responsive to idea of reducing it16:21
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styxnsoonjonnor: If its a trade-off with security, I keep waiting. But maybe they just cant be bothered...16:25
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styxnsoonMeeGo 1.1.90 fails at recognizing my Huaweii-UMTS-Stick as well :/ I even had it plugged while installing...16:27
arfolljonnor, from what I understand the entire security of luks rests around the fact your key is hashed and process takes a very long time, therefore brute forcing is very hard16:27
arfolltheres a very good paper or TKS1 security (which LUKS is)16:27
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arfollhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclemens.endorphin.org%2FTKS1-draft.pdf&ei=XHZiTeiUBseu8QP-wa3xCA&usg=AFQjCNGjKOgq2O-PV_JxSimHCLYRQtPBPw16:27
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styxnsoonI dont like it, now 1.1.90 is of the opinion that booting is lame. Screen stays black...16:29
styxnsoonBut it did boot, once.16:29
lcukstyxnsoon, work around, close the lid and reopen it (ie suspend/resume)16:30
lcukafaik its noted on the bug chain filed about it, hold on I will get a link16:30
styxnsoonlcuk, affirmative :)16:30
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styxnsoonClient fails to connect to D-BUS all the time btw... But thats probably filed.16:31
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* CosmoHill sets fire to matlab17:26
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javispedropoor matlab, what did its 1-indexed vectors do to you?17:28
velopeare you speaking about meego here?17:28
lindi-I hope meego does not included non-free matlab stuff :)17:29
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aron the other hand, it might include Octave17:32
CosmoHillit would seem my router runs on matlab17:33
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* CosmoHill looks a phoronix and praises them17:35
CosmoHillone less article I have to reveiw17:35
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CosmoHillanyone in here know anything about HPC clusters?18:31
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dnearyHi19:14
dnearyIs it a holiday in the US today or something?19:14
csdbdneary, yes it is a holiday in the US. President's day19:16
gabrbedddneary: Yes, president's day (a minor holiday).  Most businesses are open, most banks are closed, a lot of kids are out of school.19:16
dnearyAh19:17
dnearyThat explains it19:17
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CosmoHillit's half term in the UK19:18
berndhsits "Family Day" in parts of Canada, wanted a holiday but couldn't come up with a reason19:19
Alison_ChaikenMobile Portland has just informed me that the talk they solicited from me next Monday is cancelled.   I was almost done preparing it!  Meanwhile, a cascade of emails from resigning coworkers is coming in.   I'm not often depressed but . . .19:21
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Alison_ChaikenIf the BoF I submitted to Embedded Linux Conference is rejected, then I'm just going to bed and staying there for a week.19:22
gabrbeddAlison_Chaiken: nokia coworkers?19:23
* CosmoHill hugs Alison_Chaiken (if approiate)19:23
Alison_Chaikengabrbedd, you guessed it.19:23
gabrbeddAlison_Chaiken: I'm so sorry.  Heavy day. :-(19:24
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: Just make sure it's a side-hug.19:24
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berndhsAlison_Chaiken: make a counter-conference with your talk :)19:33
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Alison_Chaikenberndhs, I volunteered to give the same talk elsewhere.   Why not?  Work is mostly done! Feel enthusiasm about topic (meego-ivi) still.   Thanks for (virtual) support!19:34
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Alison_ChaikenMy main anxiety about changing jobs is that I will have to give back my IdeaPad and ExoPC and spare N900.   But TI gave the Pandaboard to me personally, bwahaha!19:58
* TSCHAKeee still has A-test boards from when he volunteered time on OLPC20:00
rmt2Alison_Chaiken, Any good Linux sysadmin-type folks in your part of the company?  Anyone want to move to Berlin or Boston? ;-)20:05
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Alison_Chaikenrmt2, I don't know sysadmins, but I have heard that some N**** office in Boston will be closed down.20:06
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vljhu20:06
vljRST38h: hi20:06
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RST38hvlj: hello20:09
vljRST38h: I have an issue with my hdr algorithm20:10
RST38hand?20:10
vljI managed to get hdr map for red, blue and green component20:10
vljbut I cannot merge them properly20:10
vljis there some "magic" formula that define level of red vs blue vs green ?20:10
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RST38hI have not done HDR algorithms20:12
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vljbut you worked on filters ?20:13
RST38hBut the HDR software seems to indicate that there is no magic formula, it is user configurable20:13
RST38hYou are asking a wrong question. Yes, I have done some image processing before.20:13
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vljand processing different color component and merging them back should be "trivial" or ?20:14
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RST38hOk, let us see...20:15
RST38hSo, you get three components, R, G, B. The problem with HDR is that these components are too long, longer than your color space (which I presume is 24 bits)20:16
vljyup20:16
RST38hMost HDR programs will let you save high-color HDR images in their private formats20:16
RST38hBut you want the 24bpp image, right?20:16
vljyup20:16
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RST38hHDR apps usually offers you a flexible user-controlled tool to compress images20:18
vljbut how can I "clamp" the value without looking like a oversatured image ?20:18
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RST38hClamping it will cause blown highlights and empty dark areas20:18
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RST38hWhich HDR seeks to avoid to begin with20:18
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RST38hNow, treating each component separately probably does not make sense20:19
vljI tried to normalize each component20:19
RST38hNo, no20:19
RST38hBy normalizing you do not blow the ends of the range but you dampen the whole range20:19
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RST38hMost HDR apps will use exponential curves for compression20:20
RST38hLetting you control the curbe shape20:20
RST38hConsider this:20:20
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RST38hCompressedColor = A * log(B * SourceColor)20:21
RST38hyou compress with log first, then normalize20:21
vljok20:22
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vljSourceColor is the color in my hdr map ?20:22
pinchartlRST38h: wouldn't A-law/µ-lawbe more appropriate ?20:23
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RST38hvlj: Yes, each component separate20:25
RST38hpinchart: One of these is linear another is a log20:26
pinchartlRST38h: I would be surprised about that :-)20:26
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pinchartlbut regardless of your companding algorithm, the result will likely not look good if displayed directly on the screen. I suppose it depends on what vlj is trying to achieve20:27
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vljpinchartl: I'm making a "HDR" algorithm that takes several pictures (with distinct exposure time) and "merge" them into a good contrasted image20:30
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vljfor now I got the set of pictures -> luminance map part of the algorithm20:31
vljnow I need to create the 24bits image from that20:31
RST38hpinchaertl: vlj would like to compress HDR data into 24bpp space20:31
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RST38hpinchartl: HDR apps usually achieve that with logariphmic compression20:32
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RST38hwhether the end result looks good or ugly is up to the beholder20:32
pinchartlRST38h: for optimal results an adaptive companding algorithm would be better20:32
vljwhat do you mean by "adaptative companding algorithm" ?20:33
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RST38hpinchartl: this will most likely look even weirder20:34
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gabrbeddAlison_Chaiken: Re: the ideapad... yeah, the prices haven't been dropping on those and it's hard to find used ones.  I got lucky and snagged one from Wal-mart last year for $400 (with Win7 Starter).  But since Win7 Starter is a joke, that offering didn't last long.20:34
pinchartlvlj: making the algorithm parameters vary depending on the area in the image20:34
Alison_ChaikenIdeapad with MeeGo is a sweet device once you get it tuned up.   Besides trying to create demos with with it for work, I find it nice just to use.20:35
RST38hbut yes, it is a nice experiment to conduct :)20:36
lardmanDoes anyone know which repo the Ideapad (that's the multi-touch thing from Dublin?) uses?20:36
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* lardman would like to take a look at the source/spec file for Qt, which presumably supports multi-touch on that device20:37
javispedrolardman: the stock one didn't iirc, the tablet ux builds do..20:38
lardmanthanks javispedro20:38
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javispedronot sure if there's a later version on the repo20:38
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gabrbeddAlison_Chaiken: Agreed.  I love my ideapad.  I won't give it up!20:38
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lardmanI give up, searching for "Tablet UX" doesn't bring up much, does anyone have a link to the release?20:40
gabrbeddlardman: believe it or not, there's not a simple answer.  I'll start with the rambling, confusing answer....  First, single-touch has always worked.  Then, with 1.1 there was a trick you could do to get multi-touch to work with the Netbook UX, but none of the apps supported it.20:40
lardmangabrbedd: I'm listening :)20:41
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gabrbeddlardman: However, the 1.1 *handset* release *did* have stuff utilizing the ideapad's multitouch -- out of the box.  No extra tweaks required.20:41
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gabrbeddlardman: These are the pinetrain-mtf builds.20:42
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lardmanok, as I need to build for ARM, where can I find the repo (or more specifically the Qt source + spec file)?20:42
gabrbeddlardman: However, last time I checked a daily build on handset, this is broken again.  :-)20:42
lardmanoh20:42
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jespadahi guys..can someone tell me how i can avoid that dhcp overwrite my routing table on meego 1.1.9...I try changing the default.profile on /var/lib/connman/..  but when I reboot the box is again there20:42
gabrbeddlardman: you were asking about ideapad at first, weren't you?20:43
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lardmangabrbedd: ah, 1.1. worked out of the box, ok20:43
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lardmangabrbedd: only because it's the only multitouch device that runs Meego that I know of20:43
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lardmanbut yes I was asking about Ideapad first :)20:43
miherobtw, about netbooks. is there a tegra base netbook available with touchscreen?20:43
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gabrbeddlardman: The current "Intel MeeGo Tablet UX" has a lot in common with the Handset UX, and MT works out of the box on the ideapad.20:45
gabrbeddMeeGoBot: Tablet UX?20:45
MeeGoBotgabrbedd: tablet ux is a closed binary20:45
gabrbeddhaha!20:45
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miheroone without touch they sell here is the toshiba ac100 which sounds otherwise quite good20:45
* lardman does some Googling to see if he can find how the Tablet UX is built20:46
lardmanfood first though20:46
vljmihero: none afaik20:46
gabrbeddlardman: There's a link to a pre-alpha preview on this page: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/meego20:46
vljbut tegra 2 does not support meego currently20:46
gabrbeddlardman: As for sources... there's two levels.  There's a kernel level API that has been changing between 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2.20:47
miheroyep, but i understood that it is under work20:47
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gabrbeddlardman: Then there's the way that Qt interprets the `input` drivers... and the sources are http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/core/repos/source/qt-4.7.0-3.1.src.rpm20:48
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* javispedro has lost all four rubber feet on his ideapad. build quality is clearly not great :S20:48
* gabrbedd only lost one so far :-p20:49
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gabrbeddlet's see... MeeGoBot: Tablet UX URL?20:50
gabrbeddMeeGoBot: Tablet UX URL?20:51
MeeGoBotgabrbedd: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Tablet UX URL' might be.20:51
gabrbeddoh well.20:51
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lardmanthanks gabrbedd20:57
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gabrbeddlardman: you're welcome!20:58
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lardmanI'll try a ks build as is and add mtev and see what happens with the version of Qt in the 1.1.80 repo I'm building from21:00
lardmanthen I'll do some Qt building if required21:00
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gabrbeddlardman: mtev was used on 1.1.  They have changed it for 1.2 to use the new kernel MT interface that was introduced (IIRC) in 2.6.36.21:02
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lardmanI'm on 2.6.35 iirc21:02
lardmanso I should be ok with that for the time being at least21:02
lardmanhopefully anyway :)21:03
* javispedro counts days before someone at adobe.com writes post about "the sad state about multitouch input support in Linux"21:03
* lardman thinks about the sad state of multi-card multi-head support21:04
berndhsi think about the sad state of the rpms in the adobo.com repo21:04
gabrbeddjavispedro: Well, the end is in sight for linux MT woes... with XInput2 and a stable kernel protocol.21:05
gabrbeddjavispedro: One problem I've been noticing in the kernel drivers is that they keep having to add support for ad-hoc specs (like Microsoft's MT event spec).21:06
gabrbeddjavispedro: But I think that's stabilizing.21:06
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GAN900lardman, that's one thing we've long been spoiled by on OS X.21:14
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gabrbeddGAN900: Yes, only supporting one device, one kernel branch, and one windowing system... does have its advantages.  :-)21:16
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berndhsi for one am completely unspoiled by OS-X :)21:20
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lardmanGAN900: works well under Windows too it must be said21:25
GAN900lardman, not in my experience.21:25
lardmanGAN900: oh, I've never had troubles with 3 heads across 2 different cards (from different manufacturers too)21:26
lardmanso, does one need to setup the mtev driver?21:26
* GAN900 recalls trying to get a projector working on XP sometime around 2002.21:26
lardmanthat was a few years ago ;)21:27
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npmgabrbedd: i got f14/planetccrma/rpmfusion/google repos integrated onto the hybrid netbook platform...21:46
npmi was able to launch jack and qjackctl...21:46
npmand hydrogen21:47
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gabrbeddha!  sounds like fun!21:49
gabrbeddnpm: ha! sounds like fun!21:49
npmindeed, it's very distracting, esp. when it's not what i should be doing21:52
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npmgabrbedd: ^^^21:53
gabrbeddnpm: :-)  BTW, do you DJ?21:54
npmyes21:54
gabrbeddi thought so... i was just curious.  :-)21:54
npmor at least i have in the past, and hope to again in the future21:55
npmgiven that everybody and their dog is a dj these days, i've told myself that i should only DJ using MIDI...21:56
npmbut i have 0 time for music these days...21:58
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gabrbeddnpm: true.22:01
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npmi'm just happy over the little things, like being able to use fedora's 'roxterm' in meego just by doing 'zypper in roxterm' :-)22:09
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janiAny finns or people living here got invitation to Ahjo for tomorrow?22:18
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timeless_?22:18
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npmlooks it up: ahjo=the core of the fire where the sampo (in finnish national epic Kalevala) was made. it brought power, happiness and richess to it's owner22:19
janiahjo == club in helsinki central ..22:20
timelessanyone here familiar with the meego vms?22:20
npmis jori hulkonnen playing?? :-)22:20
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janii just got sms saying that there's "free drinks  on Intel, register at xxx@gmail.com etc etc .."22:21
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timelesshrm, looks like it's debian squeeze22:21
* timeless tries to remember how to abuse debian22:21
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jani"clubahjo.fi, free drinks on intel, tuesday 21.feb at 8PM, Please forward this to 3 people you most like working with. RSVP FIFO. Register Asap by sending your name to  and receive confirmatnion mail".. its either a hoax or some really agressive head hunting ..22:25
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petterisounds good. Hopefully Intel will pick up the some more devs and get meego going faster forward22:31
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vgrade1vlj, delayed ping back, see joggler images on http://bug10738.openaos.org/, take the red pill.  EMGD included. MeeGoR&D22:36
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed22:36
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Jaffavgrade1: How up to date, how useful and what's the UX?22:47
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vgrade1Jaffa, bang up to date, both netbook and tablet UX images, also arfolls xbmc build.  Good for tinkering. MeeGo-R&D23:12
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vgrade1Jaffa, http://plixi.com/p/7768688523:17
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vgrade1Jaffa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjTWQZgsuuQ23:19
wmaronewhoa23:19
wmaronedid intel publish the sources to their tablet UI?23:19
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vgrade1wmarone, no, just rehosted the pinetrail image onto Joggler23:33
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wmaroneah23:35
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Jaffavgrade1: Apparently changing the resolution should scale the QML UI on Tablet UX well23:47
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lcukJaffa, multiple people have not had that experience23:48
lcukand obviously you have seen vgrade1's results now23:48
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CosmoHillhey lcuk23:51
lcukhi CosmoHill \o23:51
vgrade1lcuk, sec while I boot joggler23:51
CosmoHilljust go back from uni, been working on my cluster after hours23:51
CosmoHilldamn thing is loud23:51
lcukdoes it also dry your hair? :D23:52
CosmoHillno but it will give you static shocks23:52
CosmoHillat least I hope their static23:53
lcuko_O23:53
CosmoHilleverything is grounded apart from the metal frame on the trolly23:53
lcukthat is normally you and shoes and carpet, if its coming from the machines and you don't normally get static nearby then get them checked by uni technician23:53
* lcuk does not mess near electric23:54
timelessJaffa: ping23:54
CosmoHillI did 14 nodes in 30 mins23:54
timelessJaffa: how would you want an index set of repositories to work?23:54
timelessi'm looking at slurping the meego git repos23:54
timelessand there's a conflict between a flat list and a tiered list :(23:54
CosmoHillkinda weird, you add the nodes one by one in the order you want, giving each an IP. When you're done you unplug them all from the mains then turn them all on at once23:55
CosmoHillsounds stupid but it gets the ones that have booted into a OS23:55
gabrbeddCosmoHill: What OS? (just curious)23:55
CosmoHillRocks v5.523:56
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gabrbeddcool! :-)23:57
CosmoHill1.2Kw peak :o23:57
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lcukCosmoHill, the network of n900s is similar, but each is assigned a name23:57
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