IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2011-02-12

pupnik	maemo's setup has better software	00:00
GAN900	anidel, except now Nokia's not going to be driving MeeGo's ecosystem and market development.	00:00
dotblank	Well app repos don't	00:00
GAN900	Which doesn't leave me much faith in its future.	00:00
anidel	Intel's focused on the Netbook (weird), still there's nothing on the Tablet side (even weirder) and now it depended on Nokia for the Handset side... hopefully, Nokia will deliver that at least!	00:00
velope	I think (with my short experience) MeeGo started to look or feel something and maybe getting also a little bit hype (at least in point of view of developer)	00:00
GAN900	However much handwaving Intel may do.	00:00
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anidel	GAN900, MeeGo will continue to evolve as Moblin did so far... issue is: will there be MeeGo handset? will Intel step up and bring us hw for the handset UX?	00:00
anidel	in case Nokia decides to drop it, of course	00:01
aholler	there are still the car-manufacturer. I think they might have an interest in ivi	00:01
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GAN900	anidel, Intel sells to OEMs.	00:02
anidel	I don't really care about IVI, I can't bring my car to the office for a tweet :p	00:02
fendel	anidel: I see Plasma Netbook as something for the netbook	00:02
DrGrov	Intel. Could Intel make a phone perhaps?	00:02
dotblank	there is also ubuntu and unity	00:02
anidel	see, democracy :) too much choise, lack of focus	00:02
dotblank	I don't see the pooint of netbook meego	00:02
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sivang	anidel: hehe	00:02
anidel	look at what HP has now...	00:02
GAN900	IVI sounds really nice to me.	00:03
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anidel	it's more than Apple and Google have.. a scalable OS	00:03
sivang	GAN900: to me as well	00:03
anidel	that should hve been Maemo first and MeeGo todat	00:03
aholler	and the tablet-market might be a target for meego too	00:03
anidel	today	00:03
sivang	GAN900: wish there was more hardware for testing through the community though	00:03
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MrCase	does anyone of you know how to access the calendar on the n900, preferably via python (pyside)?	00:03
fendel	dotblank: I see the 2011/2012 netbook as a tablet with a keyboard. Mostly a tablet	00:04
anidel	Intel doesn't know how to make software..they lack a proper UI team... I don't see the first MeeGo handset UX (as we see it today) to be that fancy for example... I may not care, but people will	00:04
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anidel	I wished for a nice UI from Nokia.. they clearly did a great job on Maemo	00:04
anidel	and I still think we'll see it	00:04
sivang	anidel: on the meego device later this year	00:04
anidel	after all Nokia seems willing to play with THREE platforms	00:05
anidel	yep	00:05
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dotblank	I think intel is talent starved for programmers	00:05
dotblank	for linux and phone devs	00:05
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MrCase	what can i say, i buy AMD for reasons :).	00:05
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anidel	:)	00:05
anidel	another thing I blame on Nokia	00:05
fendel	dotblank: Intel have developers and manager that understand open source. One respected leader in Open Source do work for them. He also happens to have a MBA	00:05
anidel	was to go DOWN to a mobile phone with the N900	00:06
dotblank	Intel advertises meego jobs all over my facebook page	00:06
anidel	instead of keeping it as a tablet	00:06
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anidel	but that is personal :	00:06
anidel	:)	00:06
GAN900	dotblank, clearly they should be hiring from Nokia, then.	00:06
fendel	dotblank: He also looks like he might be in family with a guy that many finish people lives in Finland: Santa Claus	00:07
fendel	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Cox	00:07
anidel	GAN900, :) indeed	00:07
* GAN900 tries not to rage.		00:07
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hirabayashitaro	I'm listening to the Q&A of today's event... Is quite funny. Elop claims that nokia will continue to support symbian, but also meego, and focus on windows... if you are a software developer and you need to be sustained, please ask, there's room for everyone.	00:08
sivang	nokia has been advertizing meego jobs just as well	00:08
sivang	until today	00:08
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anidel	yup... that's why I think they'll do release a phone... for them is a "why not"?	00:08
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dotblank	all that R&D out the window	00:09
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dotblank	I don	00:09
dotblank	't think thats the case	00:09
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MrCase	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U	00:10
MrCase	ROFL	00:10
MrCase	;-)	00:10
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dotblank	http://www.hs.fi/english/article/More+than+1000+Nokia+employees+walk+out+in+Tampere+in+protest+at+Symbian+phase-out/1135263743059	00:11
sivang	MrCase: will it play mp3's or all sorts of codecs? ogg? :)	00:11
anidel	but this was because of Symbian.. the whole company was based on Symbian and now you drop it?	00:11
MrCase	sivang: :-)	00:12
anidel	that means, I guess, that many will lose their job as those positions are now being outsourced to MS	00:12
MrCase	sivang: wondering what happened to ffmpeg ogg decoder on the n900.	00:12
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sivang	MrCase: stayst the same, mameo is in the hands of the community council thank god	00:12
sivang	MrCase: and there just bee community SSU started	00:12
DrGrov	I gotta get myself a N900 again	00:13
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MrCase	sivang: not sure i like the idea. the community SSU broke a couple of things from what i have read.	00:13
sivang	MrCase: so did nokia updates, updates break things sometimes :)	00:14
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anidel	MrCase, no they didn't... what did they break? it's working just fine here	00:14
MrCase	let me look it up.	00:14
pupnik	Gimme a N901 with 1500mAh and speakers that don't break	00:15
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anidel	want mine? :)	00:15
MrCase	anidel: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU_notes	00:15
DrGrov	hirabayashitaro: Where did you find the Q&A? on conversations.nokia.com ?	00:15
pupnik	anidel: selling a n900? what kbd layout?	00:15
sivang	pr3 at start broke something, I don't remember what	00:15
anidel	they're normal bugs... where's the actual issue? PR1.3 had bug of itself.. so ?	00:15
sivang	well not for all of people	00:15
hirabayashitaro	no, it's just the video of the conference (?)	00:15
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hirabayashitaro	on nokia/press	00:16
anidel	pupnik, I was kidding :) but I may be tempted :P	00:16
sivang	MrCase: community SSU will be good trust me. I Know the guy behind it and he is very serious about it :)	00:16
MrCase	anidel: okay. then "Product:Maemo 5 Community SSU" is misleading in the ticket system.	00:16
sivang	anidel: well, the packager	00:16
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anidel	yep.. he is.. I've have provided a patch myself and was just included for the next release...	00:17
MrCase	sivang: glad to hear that. tbh i just started using my n900 2 days ago properly. before it was not usable. but after applying some kernel settings found on maemo.org it runs smoothly.	00:17
blizzow	Seeing Ballmer on youtube just makes the announcement that much more gut wrenching.	00:18
anidel	MrCase, also the CSSU is bringing to us many newer versions ot the modules, courtesy of Nokia.. they continued to fix issues for a while after PR1.3	00:18
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hirabayashitaro	DrGrov: here: javascript:;	00:19
sivang	MrCase: what kernel settings?	00:19
hirabayashitaro	DrGrov: sorry.. http://tiny.cc/rb056	00:19
sivang	MrCase: what were the issues?	00:20
MrCase	sivang: device not responsive, prolly swapping too much.	00:20
MrCase	sivang: http://crymore.de/rehosted/N900/tuning	00:20
DrGrov	The recruit is on at #symbian. Interesting to say the least. Some Facebook stuff going on there	00:21
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DrGrov	Per_n900: I see you jumped the train to #symbian	00:22
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Per_n900	DrGrov: Yeah, thought I would check things out a little :)	00:22
DrGrov	Per_n900: That guy seems like a big joke though	00:23
sivang	yes	00:23
linuxplatform	did Nokia say anything about MeeGo's future?	00:23
sivang	IQ heheh	00:23
DrGrov	He gotta be a retard with an IQ of 12,2	00:23
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DrGrov	Or even perhaps 1,22	00:24
sivang	linuxplatform: yes, it is a research project for the next disruptive technology	00:24
linuxplatform	pisses me of that they chose Microsoft!!	00:24
sivang	linuxplatform: with phone releasedlater this year	00:24
sivang	linuxplatform: so don't just through your hopes yet	00:24
linuxplatform	sivang, yeah?	00:24
hirabayashitaro	Why Elop ended to be the CEO of Nokia? I must have missed something.	00:24
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anidel	This seems like a good read :http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/02/11/nokia/	00:25
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anidel	[UPDATE: Former Microsoft exec Chris Weber has just been named President of Nokia Inc. (US). This is a coup, folks.]	00:27
anidel	wow...	00:27
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hirabayashitaro	anidel: thanks for the link	00:29
anidel	di niente	00:30
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MrCase	let's do some live coding for the n900.	00:30
MrCase	to celebrate this day.	00:30
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fendel	How functional is a MeeGo phone as of today?	00:34
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fendel	Compared with Maemo	00:34
thiago_home	people who have the phone can't tell you about it	00:35
thiago_home	and clearly it's not ready, or it would've been released	00:36
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fendel	Not so clear to me. A lot of reasons why a project stalls	00:37
thiago_home	have you seen any project not release after they're ready?	00:37
thiago_home	"we're waiting for the right sign of the zodiac"	00:38
hirabayashitaro	thiago_home: It's only my humble opinion, but I think meego on handset should be made ready for existing devices to abtract some attention on it, and thenperfected	00:38
* simula guesses that's as close to thiago telling you he has a meego phone as you get		00:38
thiago_home	yes, I have one	00:38
thiago_home	I can't tell you anything about its state or technical details	00:38
fendel	http://www.sharpley.org.uk/node/11 - Clearly maemo components are coming to KDE	00:39
Juozapas	is it good ? :)	00:39
thiago_home	I like it and I'll buy one when it's out	00:39
fendel	gstreamer, telepathy, pulseaudio, and so on	00:39
GAN900	i.e., never.	00:40
hirabayashitaro	fendel: I have one, and tested meego on it. It's absolutely not usable for consumes use yet	00:40
blizzow	Anyone know when the E7 is coming to the US?	00:41
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thiago_home	blizzow: this is not a nokia channel and the e7 is not a meego device	00:42
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fendel	hirabayashitaro: That is interesting as long as it is build on mostly the same components as maemo, gnome, and kde.	00:43
blizzow	what was I thinking asking such a question?	00:43
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MrCase	"ImportError: No module named QtDeclarative" is there some additional magic needed with pyside?	00:44
MrCase	i have installed the stuff from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/cgoncalves:/pyside:/shiboken/openSUSE_11.3/x86_64/	00:45
mikhas	MrCase, try "import silverlight" ;-)	00:45
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MrCase	haha :)	00:45
MrCase	no, thanks, i only do real c++ on windows.	00:45
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sivang	what is silverlight btw?	00:45
sivang	is it like WRT?	00:45
hirabayashitaro	fendel: Well, I'm not aware of technical stuff, I see your point but cannot answer properly	00:46
mikhas	sivang, the new future	00:46
simula	it's a stripped down version of wpf that is a browser plugin from ms	00:46
MrCase	sivang: competition for flash.	00:46
sivang	wpf?	00:46
simula	windows presentation framework... the successor to windows forms	00:46
sivang	but nokia devices were among the few running flash natively and properly such that even iphone couldn't	00:46
simula	a programming framework... kinda like Qt, but stuck on a single platform	00:47
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sivang	simula: I see	00:47
fendel	hirabayashitaro: I see many potential issues regarding multitouch, touch friendliness, and so on. But I have not tried it	00:47
simula	and c# instead of c++	00:47
thiago_home	and a much more horrible markup language	00:47
sivang	I see	00:47
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hirabayashitaro	fendel: I tryied it on an n900 phone, and found the graphics rough, had some problems with connection, and missing functionality to some basic services for a phone. I suppose you can find all you need by bugtracking tool	00:48
sivang	thiago_home: I just hope we will have the OVI sprint and qt dev days this year as last year. THis is my wish for tonight :)	00:50
sivang	thiago_home: I've never seen such an aspiring event to developers	00:50
sivang	thiago_home: educating and stiulating	00:50
sivang	*stimulating	00:50
hirabayashitaro	fendel: At a system level I really can not judge, and I think that various software could be implemented easily due to the fact that everything shares some common components with other open source projects, but I'm not sure of it	00:51
thiago_home	my wish too	00:51
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hirabayashitaro	I'm really sorry but... http://www.elop.org/ lol	00:52
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fendel	hirabayashitaro: :) I will test it myself. Thanks	00:55
velope	I am new in the area but cannot properly understand what takes so long to make MeeGo releases.	00:55
CosmoHill	that's a london phone number...	00:55
fendel	velope: Me either. Could be management issues	00:56
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fendel	velope: Maemo is a working phone. Basically the same communication components as MeeGo? Qt has been used on phones before..	00:57
thiago_home	I guess that if someone knew, they'd be making a lot of money now	00:57
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velope	or MeeGo would be out and we happy.	00:58
hirabayashitaro	fendel: I think it is due to the fact that maemo is not open source, and so many things has to be rewritten	00:59
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fendel	hirabayashitaro: Strange, but worth a look. :-) Thanks	01:01
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sivang	anybody watched the share value?	01:02
phl0x81	hm, I don't buy that shit from nokia today...	01:03
phl0x81	its been a microsoft event, with nokia beeing guest.	01:03
DrGrov	Could it be so that there is something even bigger coming up later?	01:04
trumee	thiago_home: are qt devs being let go too?	01:04
fendel	sivang, Down 14%	01:04
thiago_home	no	01:04
thiago_home	no one is losing their jobs in our team	01:04
trumee	thiago_home: thats a relief.	01:04
fendel	Nokia down 14%. Microsoft down 1%	01:04
DrGrov	thiago_home: Are you the person that resigned yesterday?	01:04
thiago_home	no	01:04
DrGrov	Oh sorry	01:05
thiago_home	let's not make rushed decisions	01:05
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DrGrov	I just thought I recognized the name	01:05
thiago_home	qt lives on, and we'll need time to digest the news	01:05
thiago_home	please be patient with us	01:05
sivang	thiago_home: I wonder what it means for qt app devels if ovi is merged into ms's app stores..	01:05
thiago_home	sivang: again, we'll need time to map out the future	01:05
sivang	yes	01:06
DrGrov	thiago_home: Can I ask a minor thing since you obviously are working for Nokia?	01:06
thiago_home	DrGrov: you can ask	01:06
thiago_home	I don't promise to answer	01:06
fendel	The market response to the Microsoft deal: Google up 1.3%. MSFT down 0.91%. Nokia down 13.97%	01:06
auke	INTC?	01:06
phl0x81	well, lets be honest, before 1.2 MeeGo isn't ready for anything.	01:06
thiago_home	fendel: the FT says it's because Elop said it's a 2-year changeover plan	01:06
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phl0x81	so nokia needs a solution, and obviously, MS is paying quite well for taking WP7	01:07
DrGrov	thiago_home: Can consumers somehow make a mass complaint to Nokia for disrespectful comments?	01:07
trumee	thiago_home: how about the meego team, is there any downsizing there?	01:07
thiago_home	DrGrov: huh?	01:07
pupnik	wouldn't that be disrespectful, DrGrov ? :)	01:07
sivang	thiago_home: that is the only hole forme with my theory this is just to buy time for when meego is ripe to be back :)	01:07
DrGrov	Oh damn, sorry. Not intended to write it in that way.	01:07
fendel	thiago_home: Make sense to me. Uncertainty and change.	01:07
thiago_home	trumee: I don't know of any decisions regarding them. All I know outside our org is what's been said in the public.	01:07
phl0x81	I don't think thiago_home knows anything about the planned layoffs.	01:07
DrGrov	thiago_home: I mean that complain to Nokia about being mistreated as a loyal customer	01:08
pupnik	how've you been mistreated DrGrov ?	01:08
phl0x81	we have to wait on that one. thats just an announcement.	01:08
thiago_home	DrGrov: you can do that.	01:08
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thiago_home	DrGrov: you can also make your decision known by not buying more nokia devices	01:08
DrGrov	thiago_home: I can? Well that sounds like a very good idea.	01:08
thiago_home	I personally plan on buying the nokia meego one when it comes out	01:08
pupnik	if it's anything like an improved n900, i'm all over it like a dog in heat	01:09
phl0x81	I've got from Nokia an N8, its shitty imho.	01:09
fendel	thiago_home: I would like a MeeGo phone	01:09
phl0x81	so only mobile I would buy from nokia, would be a MeeGo phone.	01:09
DrGrov	pupnik: I have been mistreated since I have bought all my phones on 1st day of release. The N97, N900 and N8 and still the consumer needs are not answered. Just ignored again and again	01:09
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DrGrov	thiago_home: This would be actually what I thought to do. No more Nokia devices unless there is a Meego device coming out.	01:09
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phl0x81	if its as free as the N900, so you can flash easily new SW for MeeGo.	01:09
thiago_home	DrGrov: the n97 was a disaster, it's recognised publicly. The n900 is a developer device, so don't expect anything more than that.	01:09
pupnik	DrGrov: you buy devices, and then expect them to change? that's like a woman expecting to change a husband. :)	01:09
trumee	thiago_home: MeeGo phone will be good, however will there be anybody around to do bug fixes for it in the future, is the question?	01:09
sivang	thiago_home: did you justsay that? :)	01:10
fendel	thiago_home: I not been a Windows desktop users since before 2000, but I can see myself buy a MeeGo phone	01:10
mikhas	... or will there be enough application developers for MeeGo ...	01:10
openstandards	the only way for me to buy another nokia would be if it was like the n900	01:10
DrGrov	thiago_home: Yes, the N97 was a complete disaster.	01:10
pupnik	me too openstandards	01:10
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openstandards	but meego driven...	01:10
DrGrov	thiago_home: But how about the future for the N8 then? Just dump and leave, that's it?	01:10
sandst1	n8 is what n97 should've been	01:10
Milhouse	Ari's latest blog rubbing Nokias nose in it...	01:10
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thiago_home	DrGrov: I can't tell you anything	01:10
trumee	Milhouse: link?	01:11
Milhouse	http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/	01:11
fendel	openstandards, What I want is a developer device	01:11
DrGrov	pupnik: Yes of course. No I don't expect the device to change but that Nokia will keep their god damn promises to their customers	01:11
CosmoHill	Vodafone's selection for pay as you go customers is tantalisingly dull	01:11
Milhouse	"We have ambitious goals. We will make webOS a winning mobile operating system. We will create an exciting ecosystem with developers and other partners. We are very committed, we have products in the pipeline, and we do not hesitate. We control our own destiny, and that is what matters in life. Right?"	01:11
pupnik	what promise DrGrov ?	01:11
openstandards	what sucks about the n900 is it would of been a fantastic enterprise driven phone	01:11
phl0x81	anything known about an Intel based MeeGo Phone? There were rumors about Aava...	01:11
DrGrov	pupnik: About Symbian and the future of Symbian that it still will be the choice for the future. This was said earlier already during the same time of the launch of the N8.	01:12
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openstandards	no doubt just rumors...	01:12
DrGrov	thiago_home: I have to ask one thing though. You feel like you are working like a puppet for Nokia and now Microsoft?	01:12
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sivang	DrGrov: can you pleasestop?	01:12
sivang	DrGrov: that's out of code of conduct	01:12
blizzow	just kick him.	01:12
thiago_home	DrGrov: I will not commenton that.	01:12
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auke	sorry I took that long, I'm actually really busy today	01:13
sivang	thanks auke	01:13
phl0x81	Well, I just heared a Troll say (in Munich, October'10, Qt DevDays): "We make the software, to turn your (nokias) bricks into something useful" ;)	01:14
fendel	thiago_home: :-) Do not feel bad about your employers choice. It is their choice to change. It is your choice to reflect over that. Part of life :-)	01:14
thiago_home	isn't that what all software does?	01:14
sivang	qt-qml ml just shown something sad :/	01:14
thiago_home	fendel: I don't have to like the decision to understand it.	01:14
fendel	thiago_home: :-) I perfectly agree	01:14
jonnor	phl0x81: Intel has stated that their silicon will be in a phone in 2011. It was in the announcement re meegos future, but they did not say if it was meego or not	01:15
phl0x81	nokia didn't say today that they gonna drop MeeGo. so...	01:15
sivang	thiago_home: indeed, I just figured OVI store change will be kept last, anyways stuff with OVI take lots of time , so that closes that hole :)	01:15
phl0x81	MWC next week :D	01:15
thiago_home	nokia said today that it will ship a meego phone this year	01:15
phl0x81	nokia said that last year too... ;)	01:16
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aholler	they said they may ship	01:16
MrCase	google and hp hiring nokia devs.	01:16
MrCase	xD	01:16
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MrCase	funny!	01:16
fendel	thiago_home: I read it as Nokia will ship a MeeGo device this year	01:16
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jonnor	thiago_home: a "meego-related device" nitpicking	01:16
phl0x81	well, as I said, with 1.2 in April, is the first MeeGo Version afaik, that is interesting in beeing shipped on devices.	01:17
mikhas	MrCase, logical. A lot of good guys will leave now.	01:17
thiago_home	jonnor: yes, harmattan. Just like before.	01:17
MrCase	mikhas: yes.	01:17
openstandards	i thought nokia just wanted to produce a tablet with meego	01:17
fendel	A device might be anything from a GPS in a car to a pad	01:17
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thiago_home	elop said that nokia may ship a tablet, using any OS (i.e. not windows)	01:17
fendel	openstandards: A tablet can be OK. N810 was ok	01:18
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openstandards	fendel: a tablet is no use for me thou	01:19
tmzt	New startegy for long-term success: announce a long-term strategic vision bianually.	01:19
fendel	But I want a more general and portable communication device (phone)	01:19
openstandards	fendel: same here	01:19
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tmzt	WP7 kills off the rest of the communicator business	01:19
tmzt	alternative, NOK bus DataVision and builds OviOffice	01:19
thiago_home	okay... this is now back into the part that I must sit back and not talk	01:20
fendel	Why do we still call a "smart phone" a "phone"? It is a PDA with some phone functionality or a pocket computer	01:20
thiago_home	so I'll just go to bad	01:20
openstandards	fendel: the only tablet i'd consider getting would be that one that has the same display as the olpc	01:20
thiago_home	bed	01:20
[Rui]	fendel: IMHO smartphones are dumb computers	01:20
openstandards	fendel: xda :P	01:20
fendel	openstandards: The OLPC has a nice screen	01:20
fendel	:)	01:20
[Rui]	nowadays limited interfaces like Android or iPhoney or winPhoney are the suxor	01:20
[Rui]	fendel: I love the olpc screen	01:20
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openstandards	fendel: i like the fact its more like an e-ink display..readable in sunlight	01:21
[Rui]	I only wish I could get my hands on a olpc 1.5 board	01:21
tmzt	or, Wayland compositor, Qt toolkit and phone api, ofono backend, Android compatibility	01:21
fendel	[Rui]: :). I am considering getting a OLPC 1.5 or so for my 2 year old	01:21
[Rui]	to upgrade my olpc 1 one.	01:22
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Guest22234	Well.	01:23
fendel	[Rui]: We have family 20+ hours travel from home. Would be nice as a "grandma communication device"	01:23
Guest22234	thiago_home: I do apologize for the question. It was not meant as a insult or a personal attack on you.	01:23
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sivang	answered a post in meego-kernel that as encouraging	01:25
sivang	now good night al and I Suggest others to do the same	01:26
lolloo	http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/	01:26
lolloo	OMG disgusting	01:26
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niala1	good night sivang	01:27
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lolloo	GOD Damnit!!!	01:28
lolloo	goddamit Nokia!!!	01:28
lolloo	what the hell!	01:28
wmarone	lolloo: chill out	01:28
lolloo	i need chill pill	01:28
GAN900	Really makes one hate Nokia.	01:28
lolloo	gimmeeeeeeeeeee	01:28
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fendel	Looks like a phone to me.	01:29
lolloo	hehe	01:29
GAN900	Even if a MeeGo device comes out from them, I'm not sure I could bring myself to pay for it just on principle.	01:29
velope	but would it be nicer with "MeeGo" logo instead of what winlogo?	01:29
velope	that*	01:30
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lolloo	i feel i want to cry.	01:30
wmarone	GAN900: hey, at least you'd know it was dead end ;)	01:30
phl0x81	wait a week for that.	01:30
lolloo	hehe	01:30
phl0x81	maybe its the best that could happen.	01:30
wmarone	maybe they'd be benevolent and release all of the sources, knowing they'll just leave it to rot (at microsoft's command)	01:30
fendel	GAN900: I buy hardware from Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, and so on. They also push Microsoft	01:30
lolloo	maybe	01:31
fendel	GAN900: Nokia is now a Dell	01:31
openstandards	yuck, not liking...	01:31
phl0x81	Intel says, its not gonna drop MeeGo. HTC and other might now think different about the OS.	01:31
fendel	GAN900: But I do not run Windows	01:31
openstandards	i think the colour ideas is a good idea but thats the only thing nice really	01:31
lolloo	Keyboard please!	01:32
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phl0x81	yeah, since the n8 I know, why most Nokia Smartphones had a keyboard...	01:33
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hirabayashitaro	Quite sad to see that the only thing which is important in this world is money. It is not about Nokia, it's a tendency.	01:33
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lolloo	hirabayashitaro, I agree totally.	01:34
fendel	:) Good night	01:35
openstandards	in defense, money is what keeps a roof over your head and keeps a family fed	01:35
lolloo	i owned nokia since when? 1998?	01:35
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niala1	night fendel	01:35
lolloo	night fendel	01:36
[Rui]	my last Nokia was a 2670 or something, after a 6600. and I only bought that one because I killed a long living 6600 with a 20 min swim :)	01:36
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[Rui]	and I didn't buy a better one because OpenMoko was about to be on sale	01:36
phl0x81	I have a bada phone, bada sucks in development, but I like it in its everyday usage.	01:37
topeira	thats sad: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-February/481506.html	01:37
hirabayashitaro	I bought my phone inspired by the principles of community experience, collaboration, etc. Which I supposed to find on a linux based device. I was wrong. A product is a product.	01:37
lolloo	I am telling the truth, I never bought other than nokia phones. just once I bought SE COPT for its camera.	01:37
niala1	hirabayashitaro: sadly +1	01:37
lolloo	C905*	01:38
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openstandards	I was going to buy the neo freerunner but decided against it and ended up with a n900	01:38
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hirabayashitaro	openstandards: sure money is important, but it is not the only thing one needs. And some years ago there were less roofs and more people under them	01:38
hirabayashitaro	openstandards: not to mention the fireplace :P	01:39
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lolloo	money is not a goal, its a path	01:40
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velope	yes, unofortunately money has still too much power. maybe in future, communities like this gains more importance.	01:41
tarantism_	sorry for late question but what's the consensus here? Does Meego have a future?	01:41
lolloo	yes it will continue	01:42
tarantism_	Cool	01:42
tarantism_	Who owns it?	01:42
lolloo	yeah	01:42
niala1	velope: linux start with no vendor :)	01:42
lolloo	N9	01:42
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wmarone	tarantism_: no one owns MeeGo, though the name and trademarks are held by the Linux Foundation	01:42
tarantism_	OK	01:42
hirabayashitaro	lolloo: and what is the goal?	01:42
tarantism_	Who wants it to succeed??	01:43
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hirabayashitaro	tarantism_: me?	01:43
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tarantism_	me too	01:43
wmarone	tarantism_: I would think most people in here would want it to succeed	01:43
tarantism_	anyone else?	01:43
lolloo	N9 is successor to N900 open source better power and cpu.	01:43
tarantism_	ok, most people in here - clear.	01:44
phl0x81	thinking about doing our own phone.	01:44
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tarantism_	we don't have a major handset mfr any more.	01:44
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phl0x81	what would it cost, lets say to get a MeeGo Phone with G3 (UMTS) made in China?	01:45
tarantism_	was inspired watching Egypt tonight	01:45
tarantism_	may need mass action	01:45
pupnik	haha	01:45
tarantism_	not kidding	01:46
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phl0x81	yeah, thought already about a revolution in Finland too...	01:46
GAN900	fendel, yes, but none of them have betrayed me like Nokia has.	01:46
tarantism_	don't be daft	01:46
pupnik	drama!	01:46
niala1	anonymous-meego lol	01:46
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phl0x81	opmeego :)	01:46
tarantism_	talking about software revolution!!!	01:46
hirabayashitaro	Well, I can go bed I suppose, talk is degenerating	01:46
pupnik	indeed	01:47
wmarone	phl0x81: talk to the OpenMoko people :)	01:47
MrCase	wait wait	01:47
hirabayashitaro	see you!	01:47
tarantism_	not trying to degenerate	01:47
MrCase	i am installing qt 4.7	01:47
MrCase	so there is hope!	01:47
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niala1	bye hirabayashitaro	01:47
hirabayashitaro	niala1: see you soon!	01:47
tarantism_	stay and talk	01:47
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niala1	hirabayashitaro: if elop dont kill me like freddy crueger	01:48
niala1	in mz dreams	01:48
niala1	my	01:48
berndhs	it's been a rough day. Nokia retreating seriously, my ISP keeps hanging up, my power fails.	01:48
phl0x81	they didn't actually retreat from MeeGo.	01:48
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berndhs	At least I'm not one of Mubarak's buddies.	01:48
tarantism_	i thought nokia was going to push an open platofrm to mainstream	01:49
berndhs	Nokia didn't quit MeeGo, but I would say they reduced their engagement.	01:49
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wmarone	berndhs: I'm sure that engagement will end when Ballmer says "endit "	01:49
berndhs	oh probably	01:49
tarantism_	real open creativity needs an open platform	01:49
tarantism_	where will it come from?	01:50
phl0x81	lets see, if the sauna is not to hot for Mr. Elop ;)	01:50
berndhs	I don't really have a direct stake in it, but it's dissapointing still	01:50
wmarone	phl0x81: no sauna for him, he'll be in San Jose	01:50
tarantism_	open source NEEDS to join forces	01:51
wmarone	err, what do you mean by that?	01:51
berndhs	open source also needs to remain diverse	01:51
pupnik	you can work on whatever you want	01:51
tarantism_	there's a huge opportunity	01:51
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tarantism_	i don't like diverse	01:52
tarantism_	i like coordinated	01:52
berndhs	you don't get progress without diversity	01:52
phl0x81	waiting for canonical to do the next move ;)	01:52
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pupnik	i'd appreciate it if meego lawyers didn't sue me and my friends for porting meego to other devices	01:52
niala1	tarantism_: "open source NEEDS to join forces" <--- but in fact every compagnie use linux kernel but they do all anything else	01:52
[Rui]	tarantism_: then you don't understand this thing.	01:52
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phl0x81	pupnik you getting sued?	01:53
[Rui]	tarantism_: it's as if you're asking for all nature to be coordinated.	01:53
tarantism_	rui please explain	01:53
[Rui]	tarantism_: wake up, it isn't and that's good.	01:53
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[Rui]	tarantism_: you can have organized groups, but you can't have an organized universe.	01:53
tarantism_	ok	01:53
pupnik	phl0x81: the trademark lawyers are highly aggressive against anyone releasing anything even derivative of the 'meego' name	01:53
[Rui]	tarantism_: and even organized groups, unless you pay you can't exactly demand a special kind of organization	01:53
pupnik	i suggest they get fired :)	01:54
wmarone	pupnik: because they want to reserve the meego name for devices that pass the compliance spec	01:54
wmarone	that's completely reasonable, as that's the purpose of meego	01:54
pupnik	i understand wmarone	01:54
[Rui]	tarantism_: that's why you have so many apps that do the same	01:54
[Rui]	tarantism_: that's why you have so many kinds of ants :)	01:54
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[Rui]	those best fit in the specific market will thrive better	01:54
wmarone	they aren't stopping you from doing anything in terms of ports, so don't say that :P	01:54
tarantism_	no demand for organisation. Did I mention egypt	01:54
phl0x81	actually its kind of sad, that MeeGo may turn for Nokia Employees in YouGo... xD	01:54
phl0x81	#scnr	01:55
[Rui]	phellarv: more than Meego employees, symbian ones. but those have had it coming for years....	01:55
niala1	phl0x81: not very funny	01:55
tarantism_	the point is (isn't it) that without an open platform we're all screwed (wanting to slow down and get a beer)	01:55
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phl0x81	tarantism_ great Idea, I already have a beer!	01:56
berndhs	there's more to computing than phones :)	01:56
phl0x81	niala1 well, sometimes I'm a bit to sarcastic...	01:56
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[Rui]	tarantism_: there are really open platforms in development like FreeSmartphone (anti-vendor) ofono (pro-vendor, probably non-open when a device reaches an user's hands) and android (pro-vendor, normally non-open when a device reaches an user's hands)	01:57
tarantism_	unless the open platforms come together they will never compete	01:57
niala1	phl0x81: yes i understand don't want to blame you, just think of employees ( i m not)	01:58
tarantism_	i got interested in meego because i thought that was happenning	01:58
[Rui]	I like the way ofono and fso work because they allow you to have a powerful computer with long lasting battery that fits in your pant's pockets, all they need is really slick phone and pim apps	01:58
phl0x81	well, I'm selfemployed. could be working at nokia now, if I wanted, had an offer...	01:58
[Rui]	tarantism_: that's where you're very wrong, they can compete depending on the economic power of those in charge of it.	01:58
openstandards	LG GW990 is the intel phone i think everyone has been talking about	01:59
[Rui]	tarantism_: eg, the less open of the three platforms I mentioned is the most successful one.	01:59
phl0x81	niala1 wanna quote offspring for a short one: "feeling, all those damn feelings, get out of my live..."	01:59
phl0x81	-v +f	01:59
[Rui]	phl0x81: in hindsight, I'm glad I never tried to go work for Nokia :)	02:00
tarantism_	isn't it that the best is most successful?	02:00
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[Rui]	tarantism_: lol	02:00
[Rui]	tarantism_: so Windows is the best?	02:00
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tarantism_	no way	02:00
phl0x81	Rui: oslo is to long to dark and cold for me...	02:00
[Rui]	tarantism_: that is true on a HUGE timeframe (centuries, millenia in biological terms).	02:00
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tarantism_	i've wasted huge amounts of time watiting for windows	02:00
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rzr	LG GW990 was shown a year ago right ?	02:01
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pupnik	rzr: the GW990 can't do tethering, right?	02:01
tarantism_	that's my problem	02:01
[Rui]	who knows how long it will take for the best to succeed in software... I know for sure it will be Free Software, but it may not even have been written yet.	02:01
phl0x81	rzr, I guess that was just a mockup.	02:01
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pupnik	rzr: i mean gw900	02:01
[Rui]	tarantism_: waiting for windows? lol... I haven't seen Windows on any computer of mine since 97 or so	02:01
rzr	pupnik: no idea	02:01
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[Rui]	1997	02:02
pupnik	i'd buy one if it could tether	02:02
pupnik	100 euro is cheap	02:02
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phl0x81	finally gonna move windows this year to a VM.	02:02
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[Rui]	pupnik: any phone can tether, if it's on a Free platform.	02:02
[Rui]	pupnik: only those in closed platforms need hacks	02:02
tarantism_	MEEGO can be	02:03
[Rui]	pupnik: just set ip_forwarding and apply some masquerade iptables rule	02:03
[Rui]	god knows I have used my Freerunner's GPRS several times :)	02:03
[Rui]	on my laptop	02:03
tarantism_	Apple/Google need a challenge	02:03
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tarantism_	How do we make it happen?	02:04
[Rui]	tarantism_: I expected Nokia to be a good backer, but apparently too much internal friction and civil war led to #elopcalypse	02:04
tarantism_	agreed	02:04
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[Rui]	Es vs Ns versus Maemo/Meego	02:04
[Rui]	now turned in WinPhoney (and rest is crap)	02:05
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tarantism_	rui - pick your head up	02:05
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Termana	morning	02:05
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tarantism_	need a plan	02:05
pupnik	that sneak preview n9 picture was beautiful	02:05
[Rui]	tarantism_: then do a plan :) start it	02:05
[Rui]	tarantism_: convince people	02:06
[Rui]	I have to go to bed now :=)	02:06
tarantism_	i'd love to but i need help	02:06
tarantism_	ok	02:06
pupnik	the c8 is also gorgeous... put an 800x480 screen on it and maemo5	02:06
[Rui]	tarantism_: as in that cornkevin costner movie, if you built it, they will come	02:06
tarantism_	hmmm	02:06
[Rui]	tarantism_: this is a key thing on Free Software. Good things attract people.	02:06
[Rui]	but you can't expect someone to coordinate. either take the job or stfu :)	02:07
Glavata	http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego :)	02:07
pupnik	nokias designers can kick asia's butt	02:07
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[Rui]	bye bye!	02:07
* [Rui] afks.		02:07
niala1	night [Rui]	02:07
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tarantism_	I don't believe in free software	02:08
tarantism_	only free platforms	02:08
tarantism_	i'll put all of my free time into helping to	02:08
tarantism_	generate	02:08
tarantism_	FREE	02:08
pupnik	only good looking thing from LG was designed in europe... http://www.gsmarenasi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/LG-GD880-Mini-3.jpg	02:08
tarantism_	PLATFORMS	02:08
Termana	pupnik, link for N9 preview?	02:08
Termana	Or are you talking about the one that came out months ago (the prototype)?	02:09
pupnik	Termana: it's been floating around for months - that macbook-like device	02:09
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Termana	Ah right, the same one	02:09
pupnik	sexy :D	02:09
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CosmoHill	ffs you're kidding me, there is no option to order the product by price	02:13
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tarantism_	stand up	02:16
tarantism_	meego warriors	02:16
tarantism_	are there any here?	02:16
wmarone	not all the time :P	02:16
tarantism_	why not?	02:16
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tarantism_	i guess its gonna be quiet	02:18
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CosmoHill	nokia and I'd imagine most meego people come from europe	02:19
CosmoHill	so it's kinda bed time for us	02:20
tarantism_	me too	02:20
rzr	who will sleep	02:20
tarantism_	I'LL SLEEP WHEN I DIE	02:20
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simula	heh	02:23
rzr	or you'll die if you fall asleep ...	02:24
niala1	ipad publicity on tv ... :/	02:24
rzr	there a some all over my town	02:24
kaie	tarantism_, you never slept yet?	02:26
niala1	a computer with no keyboard.... incredible and people buy that!! ... i don't understand human :)	02:26
rzr	this is just a giant remote control to pay contents	02:26
Termana	tarantism_, not to mention the 1500-or-so symbian Nokia workers that might have been interested in MeeGo, quitting their jobs.	02:26
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niala1	rzr: i m agree :)	02:27
niala1	rzr: and to make content you must buy another computer... and people are happy	02:27
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rzr	no need to make when you can buy	02:28
rzr	hi raster	02:28
rzr	promising post on your homepage	02:28
wmarone	indeed	02:28
rzr	the future relly on you	02:28
rzr	-l	02:28
MeeGoExperts	Evening all	02:29
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raster	rzr: moomooo!	02:29
niala1	hi MeeGoExperts	02:29
raster	rzr: well not me... not sure "the future" is light enough for me to carry	02:29
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raster	but there's a lot of others helping it along	02:30
MeeGoExperts	:-)	02:30
MeeGoExperts	well :-/	02:30
MeeGoExperts	lol	02:30
rzr	there are many pple to hire too :)	02:30
raster	hahahaha	02:31
raster	well... if they all want to move to korea...	02:31
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phl0x81	http://pics.nase-bohren.de/can-we-yes.jpg ;)	02:33
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pupnik	awesome phl0x81	02:33
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CosmoHill	hey MeeGoExperts	02:36
rzr	raster: will this X platform setup an online community website ?	02:37
raster	rzr: yes.	02:37
rzr	or offline website	02:37
rzr	:)	02:37
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raster	at some point	02:38
raster	cant say what and when	02:38
Termana	offline website.....	02:38
rzr	ok tell us the url once it's ready :)	02:38
* Termana troll face		02:38
raster	but it'd be stupidity NOT to have one	02:38
raster	:)	02:38
rzr	Termana: yes that the future of the internet :)	02:38
Termana	:p	02:38
rzr	raster: stupidity is common these days	02:38
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rzr	Termana: look for dropbox	02:39
rzr	not dropbox	02:39
rzr	deaddrop	02:39
raster	that level of stupidity doesn't get past me	02:39
raster	:)	02:39
rzr	Termana: http://deaddrops.com/	02:39
Termana	raster, anything (not a website) we might see in 2011?	02:39
wmarone	raster: at least you have the authority to stop stupidity in its tracks :)	02:39
raster	already have one as such	02:40
raster	http://innovator.samsungmobile.com/	02:40
rzr	swf	02:40
wmarone	sh!	02:40
raster	it just has nothing major on it for what we are doing yet as its not quite the right time :)	02:40
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raster	Termana: i'm afraid i can't give you timeframes	02:40
raster	i'm one of the best peolpe at not giving timeframes so sammy is happy :)	02:41
rzr	look at bada on this page : http://innovator.samsungmobile.com/sitemap.do	02:41
rzr	lol	02:41
Termana	no problem, I'll just beat you within an inch of your life to get it out of you	02:41
Termana	kidding :p	02:41
raster	wmarone: i do. and i actually hang out and listen to people	02:41
raster	or try to in what time i can find	02:41
raster	so if people bitch about doing something bad - i generally take note :)	02:41
wmarone	good	02:42
rzr	you should lead nokia :)	02:42
raster	i want to make as many people happy as i can	02:42
raster	you cant make everyone	02:42
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raster	but you can try	02:42
MeeGoExperts	Hi CosmoHill … Sorry, drifted into Twitter for a bit	02:42
CosmoHill	np	02:43
wmarone	raster: better than nokia, who couldn't make anyone happy	02:43
raster	rzr: dont think the shareholders would let me :)	02:43
MeeGoExperts	Hows things around here ? Everyone upbeat ?	02:43
CosmoHill	looking at new phones, most websites seem to go "oh you're a pay as you go customer? here's a value selection"	02:43
MeeGoExperts	Lol	02:43
raster	tho i have spent the last 2 days dropping idle speculation on nokia's potential moves	02:43
MeeGoExperts	Who would have thought it.	02:44
raster	and when i read last night what elop decided.. it was the "worst of the options" that he chose	02:44
MeeGoExperts	Agree	02:44
raster	its funny - the stockmarket and pretty much every comment forum around seems to agree	02:44
raster	weird move if you ask me	02:44
raster	he should have put meego front and center as nokia's new primary os	02:44
raster	that would have been the smart money	02:44
MeeGoExperts	I've only bumpted into 2 people that think it was a good idea. The rest thought it was a load of Bollocks	02:45
wmarone	MeeGoBot: if you're feeling short on that, go read engadget	02:45
MeeGoBot	wmarone: Sorry, I've no idea what 'if you're feeling short on that, go read engadget' might be.	02:45
MeeGoExperts	He took the easy option	02:45
wmarone	lol	02:45
raster	some people say "it was the only option"	02:45
raster	i disagree\	02:45
wmarone	doh	02:45
rzr	when u think nokia will able to release a wm7 device ? 2012 ?	02:45
wmarone	raster: no kidding, they're already in the 2012 timeframe	02:45
rzr	and if they do	02:45
raster	rzr: i suspect they can manage one this year	02:46
rzr	the week later they will announce that they'll drop win for android	02:46
raster	if they dont try and over-customize	02:46
wmarone	rzr: no, Elop was probably put in place explicitly so this would happen	02:46
MeeGoExperts	Warra bastard	02:47
rzr	wmarone: but someone can take his place ... let's convice shareholder that rasterman can do a better job :)	02:47
rzr	well this is nonsense	02:47
raster	either way	02:47
raster	nokia did need a major shift in its moves	02:47
wmarone	oh they did, definitely	02:47
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raster	and this was meegos best chance to go from sideline os to primary star	02:47
raster	it lost out	02:48
* araujo agrees with raster		02:48
wmarone	cleaning out the managerial space that crippled it would have helped	02:48
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raster	now over time what theat means for meego, qt etc. etc. is not clear	02:48
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wmarone	I doubt they would have walked out if he said "all you symbian people are now working on meego"	02:48
araujo	meego would be much long term profitable in my opinion ....	02:48
MeeGoExperts	But instead of trying to play for the long term strategic game with MeeGo he fucked off and partnered with another company that needed help	02:48
raster	wmarone: i would suspect so too	02:48
niala1	raster: meego is not nokia.... about qt i don't know and meego/qt ....	02:49
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Robot101	wmarone: Nokia's problems aren't just managerial - Elop's memo also spoke about an organisation-wide lack of accountability - everyone thinks the obvious screwups are someone else's to deal with	02:49
raster	meg thats why the stockmarket has droped nokia stock - what? 10%? 14%? now	02:49
raster	in 1 day?	02:49
Robot101	wmarone: and tbh, I've seen it myself sometimes too	02:49
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raster	niala1: i know it isnt. but nokia was the FLAGSHIP vendor to put meego on handsets and in the pockets of millions and millions of people	02:49
Robot101	there are some truly brilliant engineers I've worked with there, real heros, and some people who just work their allocated hours and count down the days to the weekend	02:49
niala1	even traders have understand that windows is bullshit lol	02:50
Termana	It's not exactly like we didn'	02:50
wmarone	Robot101: sure, but a shift of OSes won't fix that	02:50
Termana	shit	02:50
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Robot101	wmarone: true, but firing shitloads of people might - and they might do that too :/	02:50
niala1	raster: yes :(	02:50
psycho_oreos	if nokia partnered with google and their android, this wouldn't have been so much of ruckus to begin with	02:50
raster	if nokia shipped many meego devices and showed it to be a viable handset platform... it would gain momentum and others would ship hangsets and join	02:50
Termana	It's not exactly like we didn't REASONABLE suspect this might happen when Elop went from Microsoft to Nokia	02:50
Robot101	the graph showing R&D spend before and after symbian is kind of telling	02:50
Termana	REASONABLY*	02:50
raster	i knwo full well that qt is open source, meego is, and so on -a nd that intel are still all in there for meego and you have amd, arm, Lg is playing around with it etc.	02:50
raster	but nokia joining in and makign meego with intel was a major feather in meego and qt's cap.	02:51
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raster	that feather is now a small fluff ball, it would appear	02:51
niala1	raster: LG play with meego ?	02:51
raster	niala1: i believe so	02:51
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berndhs	if I look at bugzilla, most of the assignments are to people with intel addresses	02:51
raster	they were playng with atom and moblin	02:51
Robot101	I'm not sure that just peddling the status quo - MeeGo will be here soon and it will sort everything out - would've kept Nokia's investers happy	02:51
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raster	nothing has actually surfaced tho	02:52
Robot101	because the stock market have too short memories and don't understand how long a device takes to produce	02:52
Robot101	and, because Nokia announced MeeGo too soon, IMO	02:52
* araujo agrees with Robot101 there		02:52
Robot101	when Elop's memo saying "Nokia is screwed, we have to change something radeically" leaked - Nokia's share price rose	02:52
raster	Robot101: what elop did made them very much unhappy	02:53
niala1	i hope in futur we can buy nokia and erase win7phone like we do when we buy a netbook.......	02:53
niala1	or n900	02:53
Robot101	I don't actually see it as a bad thing for Nokia	02:53
wmarone	niala1: a better thing is to buy solutions that you don't have to fight	02:53
* CosmoHill looks at sony phones		02:53
rzr	imagine the price fall if he did not announce the laid off :)	02:53
raster	sharemarket disagrees...	02:53
raster	http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOA3.DE	02:53
raster	down 14%	02:53
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Robot101	in terms of ecosystem, MS has a lot more to spend on WP7 (and has) and proven track record with developers, than Nokia's Ovi efforts so far	02:53
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raster	and large companies - large caps like that .. if they move 14% in a day.. without a general stockmarket dump... says something big.	02:54
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Robot101	what do you think would've made them act differently?	02:54
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rzr	i am surprised none talk about m$novel partnership too	02:54
Robot101	a "fuck yeah meego! one phone! later this year! it'll be great... honest... guys ... ?" announcement	02:54
niala1	wmarone: you re right.. i search hope... think how start linux.... but take too much time if the end of the world is in 2012 :) joke	02:54
raster	tbh - pushing meego front and center	02:54
raster	as above	02:54
wmarone	had nokia resolved its path and announced housecleaning	02:54
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araujo	what I don't get is ... how this new strategy actually convinced shareholders (and everyone else) about a "brighter" future ... I just see it like a step back	02:54
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* auke checks in for a second		02:54
* wmarone waves at auke		02:55
raster	android would not have made them happy either	02:55
auke	how's the crowd? rowdy and asking for Mubarak's resignation?	02:55
raster	both turn nokia into an oem	02:55
pupnik	araujo: well a lot of business clients want the synchronisation that windows-world supposedly offers	02:55
raster	they basically compete against a slew of other makers just trying to make cheaper and faster hw	02:55
wmarone	auke: I am not so tied to Nokia	02:55
Robot101	raster: definitely - at least with WP7 Nokia stands to be a big piece of MS' pie	02:55
Robot101	for the moment	02:55
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Robot101	if/when that changes, you might see Nokia and MS' priorities shift	02:55
raster	ands the investors see that that will kill profitability	02:55
raster	it wont kill nokia	02:55
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raster	but it means their profit margins will be slimmer than they could have been with alternative choices	02:56
pupnik	could nokia just sell prototypes without-OS to us geeks? :)	02:56
araujo	pupnik, a few minority behind the curtain? ..... who?,	02:56
Robot101	but they're not just viewed on profit, they're also viewed on volume	02:56
Robot101	and market %age	02:56
araujo	it is even evident with the stock market results of today	02:56
raster	actually	02:56
wmarone	pupnik: I'll be amazed if their unlocked retail sales survive	02:56
pupnik	:(	02:56
raster	companies are views on	02:56
pupnik	the world is not = USA	02:56
raster	PE ratios	02:56
raster	and PE ratios tend to be high if your PROFIT is high	02:56
raster	:)	02:57
pupnik	also expected profits	02:57
pupnik	stock prices are future-oriented	02:57
raster	yes	02:57
raster	the stock market prices you based on its BET on your future profitability	02:57
pupnik	right	02:57
raster	(generally speaking - taking out the herd instinct thing like in stock market crashes etc.)	02:57
pupnik	also very important	02:58
pupnik	apple has a herd	02:58
raster	i'd say that a 14% drop in nokia stock price says that a large # of investors have now bet that nokias future profits, as of elops change in direction, have been reduced to what they could have been given alternative decisions	02:58
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raster	i would agree with them	02:58
pupnik	well stated	02:58
pupnik	i think we need to look at the LG-GD880 for the future of featurephones	02:59
raster	featurephones?	02:59
auke	raster: interesting angle :)	02:59
auke	alright folks! don't do anything stupid while I'm gone! Please read the IRC guidelines and keep things tidy in here, thanks.	03:00
pupnik	raster's comments are informed investor viewpoints	03:00
pupnik	cheers auke	03:00
* auke drives home.		03:00
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raster	auke: the stockmarket is all a big betting game	03:00
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raster	its gambling	03:00
raster	with real money	03:00
pupnik	prediction != gambling	03:00
raster	gambling on the future outcome of the decisions and fortunes of organisations	03:00
epx	everything in life is gambling anyway	03:01
raster	you can "win" at gambling if you predict the right outcome more often than most other people making the same bet	03:01
raster	it is possible the market is wrong	03:01
raster	and SOME people make thng now is a good time to buy nokia stock	03:02
raster	as its cheap	03:02
raster	and that most people are wrong in the bet that things will be worse	03:02
raster	but the money peolpe actually put on the line disagrees	03:02
simula	you are convincing me to short the stock raster	03:02
epx	:)	03:02
raster	hahahaha	03:02
berndhs	if you're a broker, you make money either way :)	03:02
raster	berndhs: thats true	03:03
raster	:)	03:03
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niala1	good night #meego	03:17
CosmoHill	bonne nuit niala1	03:18
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simula	fnight	03:23
simula	gnight	03:23
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jonwil	I have a proposal regarding N900 GPS and MeeGo, who should I talk to about it?	03:42
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jonwil	stskeeps: ping	04:51
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Daskreech	http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png	04:52
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MindWarper	lol	04:54
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bluelf	o	04:56
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bluelf	i checked meego website there is no documentation on how to start ?	05:25
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pupnik	you guys want to know a bit of reality?	06:28
pupnik	when you get old, your eyes start to fail	06:29
pupnik	you can no longer see	06:29
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pupnik	so let's do what we can...	06:29
pupnik	to make the world more full of goodness	06:29
TSCHAKeee	it's a beautiful world	06:30
TSCHAKeee	for you	06:30
TSCHAKeee	for you	06:31
TSCHAKeee	for you	06:31
TSCHAKeee	it's not for me.	06:31
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fungi	when i get old im going to get cool robot eye implants	06:33
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pupnik	you intel people have to understand something	06:35
pupnik	intel was evil	06:35
pupnik	they pushed the 8088 on the world	06:35
pupnik	and that thing was designed in israel	06:35
pupnik	segment:offset	06:35
pupnik	was sick	06:35
TSCHAKeee	only because they couldn't make the iAPX-432 work correctly.	06:35
pupnik	what	06:36
TSCHAKeee	before you start replying	06:36
TSCHAKeee	i do know what i'm talking about. ;)	06:36
TSCHAKeee	yes, the 8086 was a stop gap	06:36
TSCHAKeee	it was here for far too long	06:36
TSCHAKeee	but it's what stuck.	06:36
pupnik	well the world isn't perfect... i understand that	06:36
pupnik	it's full of path-dependence	06:36
TSCHAKeee	the segmented memory architecture was an extension that allowed 8085 code to be reasonably hand ported.	06:37
TSCHAKeee	ironically, had the iAPX-432 been successful, (which was highly unlikely), it would have made the world a very bizarre place.	06:37
TSCHAKeee	even more bizarre than the 8086 left things. ;)	06:38
pupnik	i was a child prodigy in 1981-2... and the intel thing made me very sad	06:38
TSCHAKeee	(you thought the VAX was a heavy instruction set? the 432 made the VAX instruction set look _SMALL_)	06:38
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pupnik	i should have had more reasonable expectations	06:39
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TSCHAKeee	full disclosure though, my favourite CPU is still the MOS 6502	06:39
pupnik	that was beautiful	06:40
pupnik	1/2 the transistors	06:40
TSCHAKeee	yeah no multiply or divide, but, the instruction set was enough, and small enough to keep in my head.	06:40
pupnik	nice to meet you	06:41
pupnik	lets be happy	06:41
pupnik	the mobile world is at least unixy	06:41
pupnik	we won	06:42
pupnik	people use tcp/ip	06:42
pupnik	microsoft wanted to kill tcp/ip	06:42
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pupnik	those fuckers lost	06:42
pupnik	and we will kill them again	06:43
pupnik	one way or another	06:43
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pupnik	http://pupnik.de/photos/original/Pupnik_Consulting_Deutsche_Bahn_afterwards_sm.jpg	07:07
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Yanksrule	im gangsta	07:21
Yanksrule	!staff	07:21
pupnik	hi	07:21
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treebeen`	pupnik: how did they want to kill tcp/ip?	07:31
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pupnik	treebeen`: they tried to ban it from windows	07:38
treebeen`	pupnik: ah, really? heh, TIL...	07:39
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pupnik	treebeen`: reality	07:41
pupnik	remember my name	07:41
pupnik	i lived through it	07:41
treebeen`	pupnik: but you are right, we won, and MS will slowly die	07:42
pupnik	thanks	07:42
pupnik	let's be steadfast	07:42
pupnik	and kill that shit	07:43
pupnik	one way or another	07:43
treebeen`	there's just no way the can compete anymore, before they were competing with OS/2 and the like, commercial products, they can't compete with free software	07:44
treebeen`	today, smart companies take the linux kernel and build their own OS	07:45
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arvind_khadri	Hi, me and my friends are developing an multiprotocol IM for MeeGo. We wanted to know if the application should be completely using Qt? Qt is basically a GUI toolkit right? And also yahoo has this lib called libyahoo2 which has to be used to use its API which is in C, so how do we go about it.	08:14
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pupnik	http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html	08:26
dD0T	arvind_khadri: Qt contains more than just gui components. And there is no problem with using c libs als long as they compile/work on your target platform. To get you started on Qt you can look at some of the material released by nokia. There's plenty :-)	08:27
dmb	long live nokia :(	08:27
zma	Elop said that Nokia will not propose bringing Qt on WP.	08:28
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rayanon	whois Aparna	08:35
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rayanon	hello	08:36
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rayanon	hello,i need help writing a chat client on meego. anyone?	08:38
rayanon	as in a multi-im client	08:38
Ans5i	if it's qt , you can also try from #t	08:39
Ans5i	#qt	08:39
rayanon	it s gotta be qt right?	08:39
arvind_khadri	dD0T, thanks :)	08:40
arvind_khadri	rayanon, Qt contains more than just gui components. And there is no problem with using c libs als long as they compile/work on your target platform. To get you started on Qt you can look at some of the material released by nokia. There's plenty :-)	08:40
Ans5i	rayanon: Qt is the way to go	08:40
rayanon	Hmm ...thanks :)	08:41
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Aparna	rayanon were you trying the whois irc command :)?	08:59
rayanon	Aparna, yep :P	08:59
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michaelwang2011	hi	09:04
michaelwang2011	how are you all!	09:04
Ans5i	hangover	09:04
Stskeeps	indeed	09:04
michaelwang2011	How will meego go in the future?	09:04
michaelwang2011	any ideas about it?	09:04
Ans5i	and today is academic mm kyykkä	09:04
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: intel is still backing it and meego isn't completely dead from nokia side	09:04
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: so technically there might just be a reshuffle of resources and things will go on, contributions made	09:05
michaelwang2011	yep	09:05
Ans5i	meego is almost ready for prime time	09:05
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Ans5i	and i wan't to buy one...	09:05
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: great.	09:06
Stskeeps	Ans5i: hopefully MWC will show some devices	09:06
Ans5i	yep	09:06
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michaelwang2011	will intel produce many kinds of devices running on meego in the future?	09:07
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: i think the idea is for hardware vendors to use both intel and ARM chips	09:07
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: sure.	09:07
Stskeeps	and it'll be a cold day in hell when i personally give up on ARM in meego, so :)	09:08
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: but how is the meego status now? Could it compete Android and iphone in the future potentially?	09:08
Stskeeps	Ans5i: http://asia.cnet.com/crave/2011/02/11/fujitsu-first-to-market-with-meego-netbook/	09:08
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: i personally think it is able to compete in many diferrent areas	09:08
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: that will be great!	09:09
Ans5i	kewl :)	09:09
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michaelwang2011	[Rui]: Is that you?	09:15
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TSCHAKeee	However, considering that Nokia itself is shifting away from MeeGo and using Windows Phone 7 OS for its smartphones, we wonder if this model makes sense for the company. Moreover, the MeeGo LifeBook MH330 was retailing at S$488 (US$380.33) during a sneak preview at Singapore's Tangs departmental store sale yesterday. That is only S$11 (US$8.57) less than the Windows 7 Starter model.	09:21
TSCHAKeee	we'll be seeing that a LOT in the coming weeks	09:22
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: Another question: What is the main focuses for meego? Netbook?	09:27
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: same as always, i think	09:28
Stskeeps	meego core as central focus, UX'es on top	09:28
michaelwang2011	right	09:29
Stskeeps	with the qml switch, it should evolve a lot quicker	09:30
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treebeen`	TSCHAKeee: seeing what? windows starter is severly crippled btw	09:32
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: What is qml switch?	09:32
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: rumours for the UX'es going qml	09:33
TSCHAKeee	trebeen`: i know. the point being you're going to see peope say, "Why bother with MeeGo when Nokia dropped it for the handsets?"	09:33
Stskeeps	hopefully MWC can help show that.	09:33
michaelwang2011	Stskeeps: coool, but what is MWC, sorry but I am a newbie.	09:34
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Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: mobile world congress	09:34
michaelwang2011	oh	09:35
michaelwang2011	I see	09:35
dm8tbr	yes MWC can prove to be very interesting if things still are what they are	09:36
treebeen`	TSCHAKeee: yes, I see that. but Intel is still backing it, and we might probably see another company showing interest now that Nokia doesn't persue it fully anymore	09:36
TSCHAKeee	yeah.	09:36
TSCHAKeee	i wasn't saying that wasn't the case	09:36
TSCHAKeee	i'm merely pointing out the knee jerk response the media will take	09:36
TSCHAKeee	and when i say knee jerk, i put emphasis on jerk.	09:37
kyb3R	:)	09:37
doc\|home	treebeen`: the handsets thing was a big selling point on qt for me. Phones and multiple desktop platforms :/	09:37
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michaelwang2011	doc\|home: why do you think so? what are the advantages of qt when it comes to handsets?	09:40
treebeen`	TSCHAKeee: ah well, the media, the hype WP7 but sales are a laugh	09:41
treebeen`	*they	09:41
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: when you've played with qml for a bit, you'll understand it well	09:41
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doc\|home	michaelwang2011: it was going to work on symbian and maemo, as well as windows, linux and OS X. One language for all of them.	09:41
doc\|home	er, meego	09:41
treebeen`	balmer said WP7 has 8000 apps, hah, wow, probably half of them are written by MS themselves	09:42
michaelwang2011	what is qml?	09:42
michaelwang2011	a language?	09:42
Stskeeps	michaelwang2011: "qt quick"	09:43
doc\|home	michaelwang2011: without wanting to sound like a ... ass.. may I suggest google :)	09:43
doc\|home	*an	09:43
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treebeen`	RTFM ;)	09:44
Ans5i	qtquick would look good in qp7	09:45
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Ans5i	wp7	09:46
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Ans5i	i did not meant qt phone 7. ~ greenphone	09:46
doc\|home	sure, but who wants to develop for wp7? screw that... :)	09:46
Ans5i	i'm thinking of downloading sdk	09:47
michaelwang2011	geilivable	09:47
timoph	I did and it made me feel dirty	09:47
Ans5i	heh	09:47
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doc\|home	hehehe	09:47
slavik	I know someone who had his iPhone stolen, then went to a store to get a WP7 phone, next day he came in with android	09:47
Ans5i	well maybe i leave to mm kyykkä first let see after that :)	09:48
Ans5i	i don't just feel so well that i would like to start dev.	09:48
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zma	I don't think adding Qt libraries on WP7 will happen	09:51
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zma	Maybe separately installable, but they are not there by default	09:51
timoph	they said pretty clearly that ms technologies will be used	09:52
michaelwang2011	Hi, how do you guys see Qt compared to Android and iphone? will it be better potentially?	09:53
timoph	michaelwang2011: Qt is not a device. anyway, I'd write Qt over obj-c/java anyday	09:54
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michaelwang2011	timoph: yep, that is right. But how is the Qt UI structure? I heard it is more flexible then Android.	09:55
Stskeeps	morn thiago_home	09:55
timoph	it is	09:55
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timoph	write something with it and you'll see	09:56
michaelwang2011	timoph: good to hear that. I have more confidence in meego.	09:56
markatto	also, python bindings that are actually useful!	09:56
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rmt	Nokisoft, yay!	10:03
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* rmt goes off to kill something.		10:03
RST38h	Q: How do I send something to Steve Ballmer?	10:04
bunk	Does anyone have an idea what I broke in a filesystem when -show-cursor stops working for all applications?	10:04
zma	RST38h: You want to send him congratulations card?	10:04
RST38h	A: If you would like to send a letter or a parcel, the address is XXXXX. For bigger payloads, the coordinates are lat/lon.	10:05
pupnik	i like the message from ari	10:07
treebeen`	basically Ballmer's reign at MS was one failure until now, and it will only get worse now... heh	10:07
pupnik	don't let yourself get sucked into negative things	10:07
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niala1	morning	10:08
doc\|home	RST38h: hahaha	10:09
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[Rui]	michaelwang2011: is that me what?	10:32
michaelwang2011	Are you from China?	10:32
michaelwang2011	[Rui]: ?	10:32
[Rui]	michaelwang2011: nope, more or less the opposite side globally, Portugal.	10:33
michaelwang2011	oh, I see. I thought you are one of my colleagues haha	10:33
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[Rui]	michaelwang2011: well, I would like to learn mandarin or cantonese and visit one of those areas before I die :)	10:35
[Rui]	gotta go. bye!	10:35
michaelwang2011	welcome. sseee u.	10:35
[Rui]	:)	10:39
michaelwang2011	:>	10:39
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Michael2011_	hey guys, what is up?	10:57
Michael2011_	If I wanna develop app for meego, do I have to know Qt?	10:58
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Stskeeps	yes, qt or qt quick	10:58
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Michael2011_	are Ubuntu Distributions using Qt also?	10:59
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Stskeeps	a qt sdk exists too yeah	10:59
sandst1	Michael2011_: and for the interest, e.g. KDE is made with Qt	11:00
Michael2011_	great. Where can I download qt and its source code? Is it under git now?	11:01
Michael2011_	is it totally open software?	11:01
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timoph	qt.gitorious.org	11:03
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timoph	I'd use packages from the distribution of your choice	11:04
timoph	instead of compiling it from git	11:04
sandst1	Michael2011_: yeah, it's free & you can choose between gpl & lgpl.	11:04
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Michael2011_	sandst1: thanks a lot. Do I need to get the source code of qt if I develop apps for meego?	11:07
sandst1	Michael2011_: not necessarily, like timoph said, get the dist packages + devel libs. for qt quick, see http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2010/11/14/how-to-make-modern-mobile-applications-with-qt-quick-components	11:09
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:14
thiago_home	morning jaffa	11:14
Jaffa	Anything interesting been happening...?	11:14
thiago_home	slow morning	11:15
thiago_home	that's good	11:15
Michael2011_	sandst1: thanks a lot.l	11:15
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* thiago_home doesn't need more excitement		11:15
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tarantism_	what's the plan for a Meego paid app store?	11:16
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Jaffa	thiago_home: :-/	11:16
Jaffa	tarantism_: Ask Intel. There are plans for AppUp, IIRC	11:16
Michael2011_	?	11:17
Michael2011_	how to change nick here?	11:17
Michael2011_	without logging out first.	11:17
Stskeeps	Michael2011_: /nick newnickname	11:17
Richrd_	/nick Newnick	11:17
thiago_home	Michael2011_: type: /nick NewNicknameHere	11:17
dm8tbr	/nick fooblubb	11:17
tarantism_	is appup going to be open?	11:17
dm8tbr	haha	11:17
Michael2011_	thanks guys.	11:17
Michael2011_	I get it:)	11:18
Richrd_	no doubt :P	11:18
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michaelwang	:)	11:18
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tarantism_	AppUp is available for download for windows and moblin	11:21
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tarantism_	Do we know when it'll be available for meego?	11:21
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Jaffa	tarantism_: IIRC, Intel had something to say about it during MWC	11:24
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tarantism_	hope that's going to be a good announcement	11:25
Texrat	hello	11:26
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* Stskeeps hugs Texrat		11:26
* Texrat hugs Ststkeeps back		11:26
TomaszD	Stskeeps, hello	11:27
TomaszD	Stskeeps, did you get a chance to test the latest daily	11:27
TomaszD	there's some weird behaviour with the touchscreen responses	11:27
TomaszD	known?	11:27
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Texrat	I thought there would be more activity ;)	11:29
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tarantism_	anyone know what % of meego devs are nokia employees?	11:29
TomaszD	there was yesterday, people were moaning how their pet project was ignored and how a product that's already on the market sucks	11:29
Texrat	well that sums it up	11:30
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Stskeeps	Texrat: everyone's hungover today	11:31
Texrat	lol	11:31
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Texrat	hello thiago_home	11:33
thiago_home	hello	11:34
* thiago_home had to reboot		11:34
thiago_home	wireless driver crashed	11:34
Richrd_	hey guys, should I try meego handset on my N900?	11:34
Richrd_	is it in a usable state yet	11:34
TomaszD	latest daily sort of works, but for some reason it decided that there's no wifi available	11:35
TomaszD	so it's not usable	11:35
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Richrd_	oh :/	11:35
Stskeeps	TomaszD: UI believes that	11:35
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Stskeeps	it does actually work deep down, which is interesting	11:36
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TomaszD	I'm also wondering why are the strings still not in English, but engineering strings	11:36
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Stskeeps	TomaszD: ah, that's normal, string freeze happens at some point	11:37
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Stskeeps	Texrat: so, i don't know about you but i still see a lot of potential in MeeGo, if anything as the last bastion of real open mobile systems :P	11:41
lbt	morning	11:41
Texrat	I see potential, sure, but still feel in limbo for now	11:42
Stskeeps	Texrat: as with everyone, but development still goes on	11:42
Texrat	I was putting a LOT of work into conference presentations, projects, etc	11:42
Texrat	Do I still?	11:42
Stskeeps	it'd be a loss for the project if you didn't	11:42
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bzhb	What will happen to the TSG ? Perhaps it is good time to think about making a more community-driven leading group, don't you think ? As a way to pass over this difficult time	11:43
Texrat	do I still go to Texas Linuxfest? Will there be a May MeeGo conference?	11:43
lbt	you know... the "only" thing MeeGo has lost with Nokia pulling out is manpower (and perhaps some important delivery focussed management ;) )	11:43
Stskeeps	Texrat: conference still goes on, AFAIK	11:43
Texrat	ok	11:43
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Texrat	bzhb, I have some thing maybe related	11:43
Termana	Ah I see.	11:43
Texrat	did you see my comment on twitter or blog about MeeGo brand refresh?	11:44
Termana	Nokia makes a big WP7 announcement	11:44
Stskeeps	bzhb: i don't really expect it to change, since Nokia isn't cutting all MeeGo away	11:44
Texrat	Intel told me before Elop announcement	11:44
Termana	and we get graced by the presence of Texrat and TomaszD	11:44
Termana	:p	11:44
bzhb	Stskeeps: not yet	11:44
Texrat	graced? feh	11:44
Texrat	punished	11:44
Texrat	anyway	11:44
Termana	:p	11:44
lbt	Texrat: I was thinking the same thing myself mate ;)	11:45
Texrat	Intel says MeeGo indetity undergoing change, will be more community-focused	11:45
Texrat	identity*	11:45
Texrat	I submitted policy bugs a while back...	11:45
lbt	Texrat: I personally think meego needs to establish a bit of an internal divide	11:45
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Termana	Didn't they say Moblin would be community-focused as well... and that didn't work out?	11:46
Texrat	and the subjects are all being reconsidered	11:46
Texrat	how so lbt?	11:46
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dm8tbr	Texrat: more community focused would be nice to see. so far the community focus is plain BS when it comes to hardware	11:46
Texrat	eh	11:46
rzr	maemo community is still here :)	11:46
lbt	It isn't supposed to be just another linux distro	11:46
Texrat	I wasn't around for Moblin, just Maemo ;)	11:46
bunk	Does anyone have an idea what I broke in a filesystem when -show-cursor stops working for all applications?	11:46
lbt	it's supposed to be a core to build devices on	11:46
Texrat	right	11:46
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lbt	we should have a core and a community distro built around it	11:46
timoph	Texrat: I was actually thinking that MeeGo could be more of an open project after this	11:46
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Venemo_N900	good morning	11:46
rzr	bunk: repopulate /dev	11:47
Stskeeps	timoph: yeah, no big pressure on product launches	11:47
timoph	yep	11:47
dm8tbr	lbt++	11:47
lbt	but we still need to service the needs of device vendors	11:47
Texrat	timoph yes, that's what Intel hints at for sure	11:47
lbt	so focus on the bare minimum there	11:47
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Texrat	I asked about a formal announcement, it should come soon	11:47
lbt	and allow a community distro to build around it	11:47
Venemo_N900	so, what was the big announcement yesterday? I've missed it. (was offline all day)	11:47
bunk	rzr: Can there anything go wrong that survives a reboot?	11:47
Stskeeps	Venemo_N900: death to the infidels, basically	11:47
lbt	with much easier access to the distro	11:47
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Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: what?	11:48
Stskeeps	Venemo_N900: engadget.cm	11:48
Stskeeps	:P	11:48
Venemo_N900	lol	11:48
Stskeeps	.com	11:48
Stskeeps	Venemo_N900: seriously, go read it, and have a cup of coffee first	11:48
Venemo_N900	ok	11:48
Termana	engadget.cm redirects to engadget.com	11:48
rzr	bunk: i cant tell	11:48
timoph	or a beer	11:48
Termana	Stskeeps, Engadget were quicker than you! :p	11:48
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Termana	(at correction)	11:48
Texrat	I just hope I can hang with you guys again :D	11:49
dm8tbr	I'd suggest to make it a strongly c2h5oh infused coffee	11:49
Texrat	man we've had some fun, eh?	11:49
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rzr	Venemo_N900: http://identi.ca/tag/elopcalypse	11:49
Stskeeps	Texrat: just stay around :)	11:49
Stskeeps	and see where things go	11:49
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Termana	Texrat, are you trying to get rid of us?	11:49
Texrat	for now	11:49
Termana	We're not going anywhere :p	11:49
Texrat	damn	11:49
timoph	lbt: IMO we should start putting up a wiki page for proposals for the changes we'd like too see in the project	11:49
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Stskeeps	Texrat: i personally don't know if i'm out of a job, but i've grown to like meego because it's fun	11:50
lbt	timoph: just starting	11:50
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timoph	cool	11:50
Texrat	oh Stskeeps I saw kudos on your last presentation, good job	11:50
Texrat	I am hoping to share the marketing stuff I've been working on	11:50
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Stskeeps	Texrat: it wasn't my best and i didn't go deep enough, but that's a failure from me to not understand my audience too well	11:51
Texrat	trust me, I made the same mistake at Akademy 2010	11:51
Stskeeps	+target	11:51
Stskeeps	like, thinking FOSDEM was just a small 1000 person conference ;)	11:51
hena	now's intels chance to hoard nokias share of smartphones ;)	11:51
Texrat	oversold my subject	11:51
djszapi	Texrat: which presentation at akademy 2010 ? :P	11:52
timoph	the user engagement thing	11:52
Texrat	djszapi on customer feedback ecosystem	11:52
Texrat	what timoph said	11:52
Texrat	I had too much marketing shit in it	11:52
timoph	:)	11:52
Texrat	ah well	11:52
Texrat	aimed too broadly	11:53
Texrat	had fun with you and leinir on followup though timoph	11:53
Venemo_N900	so, nokia decided to be just another wp7 manufacturer	11:53
Venemo_N900	how sad	11:53
Texrat	too bad we didn't have an audience!	11:53
Venemo_N900	what'll happen to Qt?	11:53
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djszapi	Texrat: with leinir ? :P That is awesome	11:53
Texrat	leinir is a great guy	11:54
Texrat	love hanging with him	11:54
djszapi	:)	11:54
Texrat	almost as much fun as timoph	11:54
timoph	Venemo_N900: read forum.nokia.com -> letter for developers (only official word on it that I could find)	11:54
* timoph is too lazy to fetch the url :)		11:55
Stskeeps	Texrat: but regarding MeeGo, timoph phrased it pretty well before: <timoph> yep. no way in hell that we're giving up	11:55
Stskeeps	Texrat: worked too hard for this to go nowhere :)	11:56
timoph	yep	11:56
Texrat	that's essentially how I was feeling	11:56
Stskeeps	and since meego is a open project, well, we can	11:56
Texrat	shit, I have been SLAVING the past two months	11:56
tarantism_	good to hear	11:56
Texrat	wanted to present stuff that would rock at conferences	11:57
Texrat	still hope to	11:57
bzhb	the best thing that could happen is if nokia was to sold qt division to intel. But that is just wishfull thinking at this point.	11:57
djszapi	+1	11:57
Texrat	so who is going to Linux Foundation collab summit?	11:58
Texrat	+1	11:58
thiago_home	bzhb: qt still has a lot of work to do	11:58
thiago_home	we still support meego	11:58
Stskeeps	i think the path towards qt and wayland is definately one of importance	11:58
djszapi	he did not say you do not thiago_hme	11:58
djszapi	* thiago_home	11:58
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thiago_home	we've got Qt working on wayland already	11:59
thiago_home	our guys and intel's guys collaborating	11:59
djszapi	prety kool to hear :)	11:59
Texrat	cool	11:59
djszapi	* pretty	11:59
lbt	http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-now-for-meego.html	11:59
thiago_home	and speaking of collaboration, I do want to go to the LCS -- if my travel is approved	11:59
Texrat	I may be starting a new job, so not sure if I can :(	11:59
Texrat	interview Monday!!! :)	12:00
Stskeeps	Texrat: good luck :)	12:00
Texrat	:)	12:00
timoph	:)	12:00
lbt	timoph: ^^ so that was one of the things	12:00
Texrat	and still waiting on freaking Nokia Siemens networks...	12:00
lbt	Texrat: ftw	12:00
Texrat	they are supposed to interview me for 2 positions, but keep delaying	12:00
timoph	lbt: at least easier access to platform development	12:01
Texrat	interview Monday is with American Airlines. Senior Operations Analyst	12:01
lbt	timoph: I think that will come	12:01
Texrat	working with Rolls Royce jet engine repair	12:01
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timoph	community visible UI/UX design	12:01
Stskeeps	Texrat: yeah, RR jet engines aren't too popular atm are they? :P	12:02
lbt	heck I wanted to propose this at the next TSG in 2 weeks.... it's barely formed in my mind. The focus was on Apps initially	12:02
Texrat	lol	12:02
lbt	timoph: yes... the UX isn't part of core is it?	12:02
timoph	no	12:02
lbt	so lets establish chinese walls	12:02
Stskeeps	lbt: +1 for writing a post that doesn't take 20 mins to read	12:02
Stskeeps	;)	12:02
Texrat	and chinese fire drills!	12:02
lbt	Stskeeps: deadlines keep it tight ;)	12:02
Texrat	was that a slap, Ststkeeps?	12:02
Texrat	I was aiming for 30 :P	12:03
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lbt	Texrat: it was!	12:03
lbt	a very +ve one ;)	12:03
bzhb	thiago_home: I suppose qt on wayland is too young for the nokia meego device. I'm wrong ?	12:03
Stskeeps	wtf does +ve mean anyway..	12:03
Stskeeps	:P	12:03
Texrat	feh	12:03
lbt	positive	12:03
lbt	see your nearest battery terminal	12:03
Stskeeps	ok	12:03
thiago_home	bzhb: yes, too young	12:03
bzhb	but it is the future	12:04
tarantism_	excuse me if I sound rude but	12:04
tarantism_	is there a project plan?	12:04
Stskeeps	tarantism_: the requirements system is still up and running	12:04
Stskeeps	hang on	12:04
Stskeeps	tarantism_: http://meego.com/developers/meego-roadmap and http://meego.com/about/roadmaps	12:05
tarantism_	thanks. I'll take a look.	12:05
djszapi	thiago_home: do you have a blog about the Qt project after this announcement ? I guess lots of people are interested in this question, what trolls think.	12:05
timoph	lbt: better roadmaps and such things. basically the project's direction should be easier to figure out.	12:06
timoph	djszapi: I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to comment on those things (at least not yet)	12:07
thiago_home	djszapi: we'll let you know when we know more	12:07
djszapi	timoph: obviosuly, I meant public opinions.	12:07
thiago_home	djszapi: until then, please be patient	12:07
djszapi	okay, np.	12:07
dm8tbr	lbt: yes that post looks like a good direction IMO	12:08
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lbt	dm8tbr: timoph: I think the strategy for MeeGo has to be NOT a distro... otherwise why use it over a more established solution?	12:10
timoph	Stskeeps: btw, packaged joe last night in build.pub	12:10
lbt	I also feel that the coalition with another distro is now more important	12:11
timoph	lbt: good point	12:11
lbt	and using opensuse as an upstream may make more sense	12:11
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timoph	looks like I need to read my mails..	12:11
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Termana	One thing I find a little strange is Nokia saying MeeGo was taking too long... but a WP7 Nokia phone won't be released until 2012... wtf? :p	12:16
djszapi	Termana: I think they mean that according to their purposes.	12:17
ColKilkenny	nope, the transition takes next couple of years. wp7 phones are released earlier	12:17
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lbt	Termana: follow the money, not the logic ;)	12:20
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djszapi	lbt: hehe :P	12:20
timoph	yep. You find reasons for a lot of things just by following the money trail	12:20
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dm8tbr	http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ - looking at the concepts the consumers are already drooling over it. sad but true, technology doesn't matter (that much).	12:31
dm8tbr	s/concepts/comments/	12:31
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tarantism_	Stskeeps: How do you check whether you have enough resource to meet the scheduled release dates?	12:32
thiago_home	dm8tbr: wp7 is definitely not meego and this isn't a nokia channel. Please take it elsewhere.	12:32
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dm8tbr	thiago_home: cool it. I just tried to give some context.	12:34
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thiago_home	not going to comment on the rumours, but on engadget: since I know that they're wrong very often, you should take their news with a grain of salt	12:35
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timoph	achipa: o/	12:51
achipa	timoph: o/ mornin'	12:51
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trinity	quiet....	13:55
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Stskeeps	trinity: people are hungover, you should have seen last night	13:55
trinity	hahah... really	13:56
NeOGeO	hi to all from n900	13:56
trinity	wait until they get today's news...	13:56
Jaffa	Today's news?	13:57
trinity	Stskeeps... have you heard the news?	13:57
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trinity	yeah... Nokia dropped Meego ...	13:57
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Stskeeps	trinity: that was yesterday's news, and they didn't drop it fully	13:57
Jaffa	trinity: If you mean yesterday's news, yes - people are aware of it	13:57
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NeOGeO	nokia drpped Meego ?	13:57
Stskeeps	read engadget.com	13:57
Stskeeps	:P	13:57
Stskeeps	but anyway	13:57
timoph	:)	13:57
RST38h	didn't drop what fully? =)	13:57
Stskeeps	this is meego.com - we're still alive	13:57
Stskeeps	RST38h: another good question	13:58
trinity	I think meego netbook has great potential ...	13:58
NeOGeO	they have decided to fault	13:58
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velope	if I am understood right, Nokia is planned to zip one MeeGo device later this year?	13:59
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milliams	Yes, that's what they said	14:00
NeOGeO	questi sono pazzi	14:01
milliams	Whether it will be a phone, tablet or other is unknown	14:01
Jaffa	trinity: Given no-one seems to be actively working on MeeGo Netbook, I think your "great potential" may go unrealised.	14:01
NeOGeO	i have not bought a deside hd for waiting nokia N9	14:02
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Jaffa	NeOGeO: Buy an N900.	14:03
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NeOGeO	i'm using now n900	14:03
trinity	i have an N900... great device with few exceptions including poor battery life	14:03
* Chani wonders if the n9 could be their one meego device		14:03
trinity	cool .. i'm not sure Nokia will deliver on that one Meego device	14:04
SpeedEvil	I don't see poor battery life.	14:04
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Chani	(then again, with the rumours I'm hearing, I'm not so sure it'll be only one)	14:04
thiago_home	Chani: the device that will be relased has not been given any official name	14:05
Chani	hehe :)	14:05
bzhb	Chani: what rumours?	14:05
roadi	i guess there will no one. what will nokia with one meego phone the market; who will buy such single solution?!	14:05
Chani	right, There Is No N9	14:05
trinity	I had an E71 prior to the N900; I would normally recharge the E71 after 3 or 4 days... 1 or 2 days with the N900	14:05
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* thiago_home raises his hand		14:05
thiago_home	roadi: I'll buy it :-)	14:05
milliams	roadi: other companies will be releasing Meego devices no doubt.	14:05
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SpeedEvil	I suspect there will be a n9	14:05
thiago_home	SpeedEvil: again, no name has been assigned to the device	14:06
SpeedEvil	It's been announced that meego devices scheduled are having windows put on them	14:06
roadi	the other companies maybe - but where is meggo today?!	14:06
thiago_home	SpeedEvil: no such thing has been announced	14:06
trinity	maintaining the software for the one phone could be extraneous ... among other things	14:06
NeOGeO	normaly 10 hours of life with my use	14:06
Chani	SpeedEvil: depends how you use it, from what I've heard. and maybe the devices differ; when my friend put a sim card in his and wandered around town with that and the wifi on, it was dead within hours. by my n900 can go the whole day, unless I'm using it heavily	14:06
roadi	it isn't still there where it should be (for selling devices). pity.	14:06
SpeedEvil	thiago: yes it was - yesterday - press conference on meego.com/news	14:06
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Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: designs	14:07
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: which isn't unusual to switch	14:07
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: Indeed - by devices I meant designs for devices which were scheduled to have meego on them.	14:07
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Mine's generally fine, but if I'm away from a wifi hotspot and do a bit of browsing on 2.5G (say yesterday), it'll be dying by about 7pm (when I'm trying to get home)	14:07
jonnor	roadi: companies are free to put whatever they want on top of meego core. Don't think people will ship Meego Handset as-is	14:07
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: But I don't have a problem when I'm connected to wifi most of the day and Bluetooth headphone for an hour each morning and on way home.	14:08
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: Yes - data transfer over wireless - especcially 3G is unfortunately heavy.	14:08
Chani	actually, if I'm not using my n900 much it can go 2-3 days without charging	14:08
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: The problem is, I want to be always on, but also trust the device.	14:08
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: I agree.	14:08
trinity	Ne0Ge0: looks like you have all readio on all the time..	14:08
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: I suppose I want a widget or status menu thing for quickly turning off auto-connect to GPRS	14:08
SpeedEvil	Better policy framework.	14:09
SpeedEvil	What can/can't brig up the radio	14:09
trinity	it's not a perfect device, but I like the freedom it permits...	14:09
SpeedEvil	There are already suitable infrastructures.	14:09
SpeedEvil	man quota	14:09
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trinity	it could probably be the last open-source device from Nokia... although I would hope I'm wrong...	14:10
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trinity	I just love Meego Netbook ... it needs a lot of refinement, but it has such a mondern UI, and finger tip friendly goo :)	14:11
lcuk	I vs We.	14:12
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, what was the tool you used to mount .raw files again? partx?	14:12
velope	trinity, it may not be the last one if we make it shine :)	14:13
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: kpartx	14:13
MohammadAG	ta	14:13
SpeedEvil	velope: And buy 8 each.	14:14
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lcuk	Jaffa, could you read this short bit of text and see if this makes sense: http://liqbase.net/Liqbase.I_Vs_We.txt	14:18
lcuk	Jaffa, I have you marked specifically for your bright buttons, see:	14:21
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/Liqbase.I_Vs_We.txt	14:21
lcuk	kot c low levelness, Linux tutoring, x86 consideration	14:21
lcuk	seb tag cloud	14:21
lcuk	zack textbox mon	14:21
lcuk	w00t c++guard	14:21
lcuk	qwerty install and hildon	14:21
lcuk	stskeeps late night chats	14:21
lcuk	johnx ditto	14:21
lcuk	daniels xvideo mode which liqbase uses	14:21
lcuk	simon gst cam,detection talks	14:21
lcuk	jaffa bright buttons prototype	14:21
lcuk	spyro mic	14:22
lcuk	kath sheep,confidence	14:22
lcuk	lbt git	14:22
lcuk	tammy supercoder	14:22
lcuk	rm_you sleep technician	14:22
lcuk	jott advice, rotated thinking	14:22
lcuk	kees debian package advice	14:22
Stskeeps	stop flooding	14:22
Stskeeps	:P	14:22
lcuk	jeremiah debian package advice	14:22
lcuk	qole cheerleader	14:22
lcuk	x-fade builder	14:22
lcuk	wazd art critique!	14:22
lcuk	adele UX advice	14:22
lcuk	vlad live bg support for liqflow!	14:22
roadi	.oO( i am waiting for the kick )	14:22
lcuk	ciroip clock	14:22
lcuk	alban alban art	14:22
lcuk	ryan web layout	14:22
lcuk	timsamoff chats and meegon	14:22
lcuk	jussi driving to hospital	14:22
* timoph stabs lcuk		14:22
lcuk	quim devices and conf	14:22
lcuk	danielw all sorts of help	14:22
lcuk	frals mms, walking through a non trivial app with me :)	14:22
lcuk	vdvsx chats	14:22
lcuk	vgrade doc formatting	14:22
* lbt kicks lcuk		14:22
lcuk	alterego qml/widget considerations	14:22
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps		14:22
lcuk	dawn devices and conf	14:22
*** lcuk was kicked by Stskeeps (pastebin!)		14:22
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps		14:22
timoph	:)	14:23
doorxp	kdkf	14:23
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roadi	thx	14:23
lbt	hehe	14:23
doorxp	haha	14:23
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lcuk	:$ apologies	14:23
timoph	lcuk: o/	14:24
lbt	g	14:24
alterego	hahah	14:24
alterego	was that your psych profile on meego members lcuk :P	14:24
lcuk	alterego, that is the list of people who I can remember talking to who helped in some way with liqbase	14:25
* lbt makes an addition to his whoswho.org file		14:25
lcuk	the book and Smile thing is what I want to do, but the rest is because of you guys	14:25
lbt	lcuk: err.... I want a "license" credit then!	14:25
alterego	:)	14:25
lbt	mr closed source	14:25
lcuk	lbt, put it on the wiki and flesh it out	14:25
lcuk	then I will use it in the next release	14:25
lcuk	:)	14:25
lcuk	i am not very good at presenting anything	14:26
lbt	do you recall the debates on GPL ?	14:26
lcuk	yes	14:26
lcuk	long and drawn out	14:26
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timoph	lbt: would it be possible to generate a list of packages that are already in pub obs? some html generating script in a cronjob, etc..	14:26
lbt	aren't they all	14:26
lbt	timoph: yep... we have REVS	14:26
lbt	which I'm thinking of deploying there	14:26
lcuk	lbt, but my memory is poor and I regress into my shell too often to notice	14:26
lcuk	writing this does remind me of one thing	14:27
lbt	lcuk: I meant license discussions.... not "me" .... (in case Stskeeps starts poking fun at me again!)	14:27
lcuk	our talks in BCN	14:27
lcuk	:)	14:27
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lbt	but timoph, what's the point?	14:28
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lbt	priming the ITP ?	14:28
timoph	yep	14:28
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timoph	automating it	14:28
jonwil	so what would this list contain exactly?	14:29
MohammadAG	is the 8 February image broken?	14:29
jonwil	a list of packages that are open source?	14:29
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timoph	no. packages that are in build.pub.meego.com	14:30
lbt	and what's the scope? home: projects or Team?	14:30
lcuk	jonwil, it contains a list of people who along the way have been begged, pushed, offered advice towards creating liqbase	14:30
lbt	home is a bit 'private'	14:30
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MohammadAG	or... not, just shows a lot of errors at boot time	14:30
jonwil	whats liqbase?	14:30
timoph	hmmh. true	14:30
lcuk	liqbase is a bottle of smiles	14:30
lcuk	the best intentions of the entire of the community	14:31
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timoph	I think I need a lesson on how the community obs is supposed to be used	14:31
lcuk	my code is not very good and you have to squint a bit, but everyone who has ever seen me knows I just want the fastest shiniest slickest experience around	14:32
lcuk	and it runs really well and always does new different things	14:32
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timoph	like if I think some package is ready to leave home, where do I send the sr	14:32
lbt	timoph: it's a reflection of the organisation of the community	14:32
lbt	which is... not well defined	14:33
lbt	but should mirror core to some degree	14:33
lbt	it also isn't a single thing	14:33
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lbt	each Team: area supports a different project which may have their own rules	14:33
lcuk	lbt, the documents I posted, who could write them up properly?	14:34
timoph	yes. I see that there's only the "team" area there but no actual team projects	14:34
lbt	timoph: no one has asked for one with enough "thought" to justify being granted one	14:35
lbt	lcuk: which docs?	14:35
timoph	in my case where I'm packaging random stuff every now and then the team project would't IMO make sense	14:35
lbt	correct	14:35
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lbt	timoph: did you read http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html	14:36
timoph	no	14:36
* timoph reads it		14:36
lcuk	lbt, those notes I just wrote; http://liqbase.net/Liqbase.I_Vs_We.txt and http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt	14:36
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* jonwil is still getting nowhere with any of his reverse engineering efforts :(		14:36
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ar	jonwil: what are you trying to reverse engineer?	14:38
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jonwil	A bunch of different things	14:38
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jonwil	Stuff required to get Cell Broadcast working on my N900 for one.	14:39
jonwil	Also GPS on N900 for maemo purposes	14:39
jonwil	I mean meego purposes	14:40
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jonwil	I still cant seem to get my head around listening to dbus signals :(	14:43
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jonwil	There is no reason MeeGo cant get GPS on the N900 using a gpsd backend	14:52
jonwil	Its all a matter of Nokia being willing to release the details of the GPS related isi/phonet calls as they apply to the N900 cellmodem	14:53
jonwil	They have already released cell modem API docs (including some stuff related to GPS) at www.wirelessmodemapi.com	14:53
jonwil	but the GPS bits there dont match the N900	14:53
* jonwil just needs to find someone who has an "in" at nokia to try and push for the release of the stuff he needs for his projects :)		14:54
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lbt	jonwil: you should be talking to #meego-arm people. The N900 is the reference device and they are/were supported by Nokia	14:56
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lcuk	lbt, its so anti-tech its in my handwriting: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110211_134505.liqbase-playground.scr.png	14:59
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lcuk	luke walked into the bed when he noticed it	14:59
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lbt	I just dl'ed liqbook too	15:00
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aholler	you should change the background color ;)	15:01
lcuk	aholler, no - I should release the package that uses the most awesome image select dialog in the world	15:01
lcuk	to let you choose your ownbackground	15:01
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pcman17	I have a question!!!	15:10
Stskeeps	ask instead of asking to ask	15:10
lcuk	Stskeeps, I believe that was more a statement.	15:11
pcman17	I 'd like to start and learn qt for meego	15:11
timoph	lbt: good guestion on the post "what is the point of MeeGo?" I haven't actually given it that much though before. I agree with you that the core is the point. By having the core as the point makes MeeGo distro the surroundings.	15:11
pcman17	Is it worth it really or am I gonna waste my time????	15:11
Stskeeps	pcman17: Qt development is fun.	15:12
lcuk	pcman17, you learn Qt, whether it is running on Maemo or Meego or Windows or Mac or Ubuntu or wherever does not matter.	15:12
timoph	pcman17: depends what you want to acvhieve	15:12
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* timoph likes Qt		15:12
pcman17	Yes but a friend of mine is WP7 developer and tries to convince me on starting developing for windows	15:13
timoph	like I said. it really depends on what you want to achieve	15:13
Stskeeps	pcman17: the true strength of a real programmer is one that can adapt	15:13
chouchoune	... I'm just opening IRC and see that sentence :(	15:13
pcman17	When i first learned about meego I was excited but now things have taken another way	15:13
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pcman17	Ok thanks for the answer!!!!!!!!! I 'll think about it	15:14
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Jaffa	lcuk: Cool	15:27
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lcuk	Jaffa, :)	15:27
MohammadAG	does meego accept Qt daemons?	15:27
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Stskeeps	are they dbus activated?	15:28
MohammadAG	they listen to dbus	15:28
Jartza	Finland has dramatic newspapers now :)	15:28
Jartza	http://emailman.1g.fi/kuvat/mobile/120220112182.jpg	15:29
MohammadAG	since I'm (slowly) cloning Nokia Bubbles, maybe it could go upstream? :P	15:29
frals	MohammadAG: i think you need to describe the architecture and purpose a bit more than just asking it accepts [random] daemon	15:29
Jartza	"Lopun alku" == "Beginning of The End"	15:29
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MohammadAG	frals, I'd assume saying cloning Nokia Bubbles that everyone would understand that it manages screen locks :P	15:31
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lcuk	MohammadAG, lol	15:32
MohammadAG	anyway, the question was, can daemons be in Qt?	15:32
* lcuk remembers tweeting about bubbles		15:32
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MohammadAG	I just hope Nokia doesn't sue me for cloning a concept and releasing it as open source :P	15:33
lcuk	well I made you bubbles py thing months ago	15:33
lcuk	and released that	15:33
lcuk	well before we ever saw it emerge	15:33
lcuk	and its yours to use	15:33
* lcuk wrote it with your keylights in mind		15:33
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RST38h	Mohammad: daemons can even be in bash	15:35
MohammadAG	lcuk, if you didn't see it, this is Nokia bubbles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSRuY_9ZMsY	15:35
lcuk	I did see it	15:35
lcuk	reminds me of physics view from original liqbase	15:35
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lcuk	lbt, did you read the part about Smiles? it has a path to allowing even simple community work to be rewarded	15:45
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riot	so, is microsoft a ban word here, already? ;)	15:49
lcuk	no riot, they have some of the best engineers on the planet!	15:50
riot	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13226560/pics/nt/nt351s-1.jpg << yeah, right :P	15:50
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CosmoHill	hi .o/	15:51
Jaffa	riot: Microsoft have talented engineers. The Kinect is amazing (although I don't have an Xbox 360). But talking about Microsoft's strengths and weaknesses is kinda off-topic for #meego	15:51
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Jaffa	riot: The question is how does MeeGo evolve and adapt to one of the few (only?) consumer electronics manufacturers who'd made MeeGo part of their core strategy pulling out.	15:52
riot	Jaffa: i thought the engineering part is what nokia was supposed to do?	15:52
Jaffa	Intel can remain committed to MeeGo, but they don't develop stuff for consumers.	15:52
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riot	i'll have a kinect system here next week.. for trying out :>	15:52
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riot	i'll probably not like it g	15:53
CosmoHill	s/trying/working/	15:53
riot	na, i work out on my bike g	15:53
lcuk	Jaffa, how about we make MeeGo so damned impressive that all the manufacturers will enable it	15:53
lcuk	if we can bottle the same enthusiasm and best hope that exists inside liqbase and make real apps with it then we are winning.	15:54
lcuk	the collective smiles I have seen around the world can brighten even the coldest, darkest nights.	15:54
berndhs	lcuk: how about making it run on more-or-less-arbitrary tablets	15:54
CosmoHill	I might go out on my bike later	15:54
berndhs	I might go shovel snow later	15:55
Jaffa	lcuk: Who's doing the work, though? Visions are great, but putting out something that polished requires more work than community volunteers (unless you're willing to wait for the heatdeath of the universe)	15:55
lcuk	Jaffa, just like I have been doing with liqbase	15:56
lcuk	it takes motivation and dedication and commitment	15:56
lcuk	just like I have spoken with you and most others and I have tried my best	15:56
lcuk	if everybody tries their best, we will all win.	15:56
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Stskeeps	ello haataja	15:57
RST38h	lcuk: You are one man motivational poster :)	15:57
haataja	hello Stskeeps	15:57
* timoph likes lcuk's thinking		15:57
CosmoHill	+1	15:57
lcuk	RST38h, liqbase in my own words: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110211_134505.liqbase-playground.scr.png	15:57
lcuk	completely handwritten	15:57
lcuk	from the ground up :P	15:57
RST38h	Yes, I have seen liqbase	15:58
lcuk	RST38h, the clock is live	15:58
haataja	newbie question, is there instructions anywhere how I could have MeeGO and Ubuntu side by side in netbook?	15:58
lcuk	and a real working one	15:58
lcuk	but its in my handwriting	15:58
Jaffa	lcuk: The world doesn't work on optimism. Even something with the vision of Ubuntu needs bankrolling	15:58
lcuk	just like the original sketch	15:58
Stskeeps	haataja: you'd probably need to look on forum.meego.com for 'grub'	15:58
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lcuk	Jaffa, read liqbook.	15:58
CosmoHill	lcuk: that's cool, I like seeing hand draw mock ups :)	15:58
haataja	ok, thanks	15:58
lcuk	CosmoHill, but that is not a mockup.	15:59
Jaffa	lcuk: What do you mean?	15:59
lcuk	its live and runs on n900 and meego	15:59
lcuk	and it goes at 60fps	15:59
lcuk	and its smoother than an iphone	15:59
timoph	lcuk: is that in build.pub?	15:59
lcuk	and its different and distinctive	15:59
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lcuk	timoph, no, I am not very good	15:59
lcuk	liqbook is on the itp	15:59
lcuk	but the other stuff I know nothing about, thats where lots of very very good people have spoken with me and tried to help	16:00
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Jaffa	lcuk: Mentioning package names repeatedly doesn't enlighten me ;-)	16:00
lcuk	Jaffa, READ it.	16:00
lcuk	its a short book	16:01
lcuk	explaining what I can do	16:01
lcuk	and how if I had the money would do somethng about it	16:01
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lcuk	its written in my handwriting and signed off by me	16:01
lcuk	its the main part of liqbase that I want to achieve	16:01
lcuk	the rest comes because of the talks and discussions with everyone else	16:02
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lcuk	I just added a new chapter to liqbook containing http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt	16:04
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lcuk	timoph, :) I showed my mum liqcalendar and she played tictactoe with Jacob. :) I have waited literally years to use a computer without tearing my hair out.	16:06
timoph	:)	16:06
lcuk	we even needed the torch! the ideapad lights up the whole room	16:06
lcuk	no LEDs on the ideapad, but liqtorch let us see when the lights went out.	16:07
timoph	the sources for it are in garage?	16:07
lcuk	maemo.org and github.com/lcuk	16:07
timoph	ack	16:07
timoph	I think I'll play with it a bit	16:07
lcuk	its very messy, I am not a good programmer	16:08
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lcuk	but it has best intentions all over it.	16:08
Jaffa	lcuk: WHERE can I read it?	16:09
lcuk	Jaffa, extras-devel on maemo	16:09
CosmoHill	for what I tend to do with some stuff is that I'm fairly bad at starting it but I am very very good at taking someone else's work and improving it	16:09
lcuk	I just uploaded 0.3 of it	16:09
lcuk	liqbook	16:09
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Jaffa	Right. I'll wait till later since a) enabling extras-devel's a fiddle and b) got jobs to do ;-)	16:09
CosmoHill	lcuk: liqbook on github seems empty	16:10
Jaffa	lcuk: Thanks for the pointer, tho	16:10
* CosmoHill is amazing by the awesome 404 page		16:10
lcuk	CosmoHill, git had a problem, latest source as uploaded 10 minutes ago is on maemo.org autobuilder	16:10
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lcuk	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/liqbook_0.3.0/	16:11
lcuk	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbook_0.3.0/	16:11
CosmoHill	thansks	16:11
* lcuk still struggles with many little things in liqbase		16:12
lcuk	and the hardest part has been trying to break it up into digestable chunks	16:13
lcuk	I am going offline for a bit, cyas later \o	16:13
CosmoHill	bye bye	16:13
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lcuk	oh, I pushed liqtutor to extras-devel for maemo, it is branched from liqcalendar, but allows you to make handwritten fonts	16:17
lcuk	its what I used to get Tracys handwriting in. mine was done by taking sketches drawn manually and pieced together	16:18
lcuk	hers was done using editor :)	16:18
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jo-erlend	what happens to MeeGo now that Nokia partners up with Microsoft?	16:27
stonda	wait and see.	16:27
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Stskeeps	jo-erlend: we are continuing	16:28
haataja	MeeGo continues as is.	16:28
Stskeeps	MeeGo's a LF project and Intel is still going on - including inside Nokia	16:28
Richrd_	I'm just wondering who will develop the cutting edge hardware for meego to run on?	16:29
RST38h	Stskeeps: That depends on what is meant by LF	16:29
jo-erlend	but will Nokia sell mobile phones and MIDs for it?	16:29
Richrd_	Nokia had some good stuff going on like hdmi and usb otg etc.	16:29
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RST38h	Stskeeps: Based on my limited experience with US business speak, he means "Start looking for jobs, we are closing your project, but slowly"	16:29
RST38h	So, no, the "learning" part is not good at all.	16:30
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Stskeeps	RST38h: not denying that, but let's see what happens in practice	16:30
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RST38h	Yes, things may turn up in a variety of ways	16:30
haataja	I think it will depend how MeeGo proceeds.	16:31
RST38h	No, it will depend on how WP7 proceeds :)	16:31
RST38h	Elop is barely acknowledging Meego existance.	16:31
haataja	That too, but less that.	16:32
RST38h	BUT if WP7 tanks (and there are all reasons for that to happen), things may start looking a bit different for investors, if not for Elop himself	16:32
lcuk	Richrd_, I am just waiting for meego to run on iphone hardware.	16:32
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lcuk	(only because I want to see whether liqbase really is faster than iOS on same HW ;))	16:33
haataja	Yes, lets not forget that meego is much more for others than Nokia also.	16:33
RST38h	If they manage to achieve some success with WP7 though, something they can showoff toinvestors, Meego is condemned.	16:33
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RST38h	We are talking about it in Nokia context at the moment	16:33
RST38h	If you want to talkabout others, the only "others" I know is Aava	16:34
Stskeeps	hopefully MWC will show some more	16:34
RST38h	Which is noteven claiming to produce a consumer handset	16:34
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velope	Microsoft may flop again in mobile business as it has done many times. http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/	16:34
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haataja	I've seen some other manufacturer devices, that integrated meego. Done by Neusoft.	16:35
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haataja	Those were not phones/handhelds though.	16:36
Richrd_	nice	16:36
Richrd_	the phone functionality is important though	16:36
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haataja	Microsoft clearly wants Nokia to be an OEM. Nokia can be that too, but I think for own future something 'original' is needed. Like the meego.	16:37
berndhs	why is phone functionality important? because the phone market is the biggest ?	16:37
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thiagoss	Do you want to have a 'handset' and a phone?	16:42
haataja	tablet and phone..	16:43
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rishi	mikhas: Hey! Long time, no see. :)	16:51
mikhas	hi rishi! how are you? still in HKI?	16:52
rishi	mikhas: Yes.	16:52
mikhas	left a week ago	16:52
rishi	mikhas: Writing my thesis now. Almost done with my MSc.	16:52
rishi	mikhas: You were in Helsinki?	16:52
mikhas	yup	16:53
rishi	mikhas: Let me know if you come again. (Not likely, I guess :-))	16:53
mikhas	harhar	16:53
mikhas	=p	16:53
rishi	mikhas: How is Daniel? I gather he is busy with his studies.	16:54
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mikhas	haven't met him yet, he seems to be ok though	16:54
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MohammadAG	err, what's /usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/targets/meego-core-armv7l-1.1/bin/qdbusxml2cpp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libQtDBus.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv ?	16:55
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG: a bug?\	16:56
thiago_home	MohammadAG: it means you're mixing your build with that of your system	16:56
thiago_home	your system's libQtCore is interfering	16:56
MohammadAG	I see	17:00
MohammadAG	why is the sdk missing qdbusxml2cpp, it should be in the meego-sdk-libqt4-dev package but isn't	17:00
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lardman	fiferboy: ping	17:22
lcuk	lardman, you are mentioned http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt	17:23
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lardman	cheers lcuk	17:24
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MohammadAG	I used mic-chroot to get into the armel sysroot, then tried to use rpm to install the package, package augeas-libs-0.7.2-2.7.armv7l is intended for a armv7l architecture	17:26
MohammadAG	but it's an arm chroot	17:26
* CosmoHill wonders how to make text files wrap in firefox		17:29
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lcuk	CosmoHill, they wrap nicely in liqbook :P lol	17:30
CosmoHill	rm_you sleep technician ?	17:32
lcuk	CosmoHill, he fell asleep stood up in mcdonalds whilst we were chatting in berlin	17:33
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CosmoHill	.....	17:36
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CosmoHill	is he a cow?	17:37
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lcuk	CosmoHill, lol, no he was propped up along the wall	17:38
lcuk	and we were pretty much hammered	17:38
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lcuk	jott and I could not stop laughing	17:38
CosmoHill	oh oh, I was imaging you two chatting in the middle of a queue	17:39
lcuk	CosmoHill, in Germany where we were - the Mcdonalds do not have seats.	17:39
lcuk	standing around high tables.	17:40
RST38h	wow	17:40
CosmoHill	that's one way to stop people shouting "get off your fat ass" at customers	17:40
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lcuk	timoph, if you need any help, just ask, many people know about it - if you need specifics, #liqbase has folks who might know even more.	17:50
* lcuk goes to daisy nook to feed the ducks		17:50
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CosmoHill	lcuk: I've heard you talk about liqbase but never realised you were the creater	17:55
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lcuk	CosmoHill, I have been creating it for years	17:57
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CosmoHill	yes but I've only known you for one	17:59
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MohammadAG	'meegotouchcp-bluetooth-libmeegobluetooth-devel' not found in package names. even though http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/ is in /etc/zypp/repos.d/ :/	18:02
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Elop_	May i say something? This community is acting like a bunch of grade schoolers who lost their toys. GET OVER IT !	18:28
Elop_	GET OVER IT !!!!	18:29
SpeedEvil	Many of the community have invested much unpaid time on this project. It's not hard to understand that they may feel somewhat perturbed.	18:29
thiago_home	SpeedEvil: don't feed the troll	18:29
SpeedEvil	I'm sure it must be him. Why do you think it's a troll?	18:30
thiago_home	more importantly, don't prove him right	18:30
Elop_	so stop bashing Elop because he didnt kiss the feet of the open source community	18:30
thiago_home	SpeedEvil: for one thing, because the IP is not from Finland.	18:31
Elop_	you people exaggerate the importance and the relevance of meego	18:31
MohammadAG	It's from Canada	18:31
thiago_home	MohammadAG: yes	18:31
CosmoHill	MohammadAG: I just looked that up to	18:31
thiago_home	and though Elop is from Canada, he was in London on Friday and he now lives in the Helsinki area	18:32
CosmoHill	also why would the real Elop refer to himself in the third person?	18:32
Elop_	the whining and the complaining is ridiculous .... cheer up people	18:32
thiago_home	and you can bet he's going to Barcelona on Monday	18:32
MohammadAG	Anyway, wouldn't a Nokian have the nat/nokia hostmask?	18:32
CosmoHill	MohammadAG: they wouldn't use the freenode web interface either	18:32
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ElopMan	better now?	18:32
CosmoHill	ah, MeeGoBoy	18:32
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ElopMan	CosmoHill: hello mate	18:33
CosmoHill	bye bye	18:33
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*** ElopMan was kicked by Stskeeps (please adhere to the IRC guidelines of this channel, in case you ever visit again.)		18:33
daniel___	I heared Nokia had an agreement with Microsoft	18:33
daniel___	is that true?	18:33
daniel___	to work on WM7?	18:34
Stskeeps	daniel___: engadget.com has all the information you need - it's a bit irrelevant for here :)	18:34
CosmoHill	daniel___: have a look at the #meego chat longs, MS / nokia press release, and shorten your tail	18:34
Stskeeps	meego.com continues	18:34
daniel___	tnx	18:34
timoph	hmmh. infobot would be useful in answering this repeating thing	18:35
MindWarper	hey folks this channel is dead all hail the new #MSeego	18:35
CosmoHill	MindWarper: lol	18:35
thiago_home	MindWarper: evidence speaks to the contrary. The channel is very much alive.	18:35
Stskeeps	MindWarper: please, leave, this is a place for work, not trolling.	18:35
Stskeeps	MindWarper: in fact we have had the biggest amount of people in here in ages :P	18:36
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CosmoHill	peaked yesterday at about 600	18:36
GAN900	Stskeeps, probably because people are desperate for real information. :)	18:37
MindWarper	sorry just been reading osnews site	18:38
GAN900	Not because they're all ready to jump on the wagon.	18:38
Stskeeps	MindWarper: and that gives you reason to go and troll in a channel where people do actual work? sorry, does not compute	18:38
Stskeeps	GAN900: probably, but this was about the channel P	18:38
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CosmoHill	Stskeeps: i think he was just making a joke, not trolling	18:39
* Stskeeps sighs a bit		18:39
CosmoHill	I never said it was a good joke	18:39
* MindWarper likes some black humor jokes		18:40
CosmoHill	racist	18:40
MindWarper	?	18:40
CosmoHill	:p	18:40
velope	sometimes the line between joke and troll is thin	18:40
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velope	At least I have been in a good situation as I have been payed for this and hopefully it continues.	18:51
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treebeen`	Meegosoft	19:02
Stskeeps	treebeen`: we're not nokia, thank god	19:03
treebeen`	Stskeeps: just jokin	19:03
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treebeen`	Stskeeps: well, Nokia screwed it, I hope they go down together with WP7, and Meego will survive them, heh	19:06
Stskeeps	treebeen`: i hope the best for meego myself. its' a quite nice system	19:06
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berndhs	i hope the best for Qt, it is really nice to work with	19:09
kulve	I'm using meego sdk's "mad" command to build my qt app. But can I install the missing gstreamer dependencies somehow there?	19:09
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thiago_home	berndhs: we're not dying	19:25
thiago_home	not now anyway	19:25
berndhs	I hope Qt lives a long time, its so useful for many things	19:25
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thiago_home	we're busy planning the plan B for world domination	19:26
thiago_home	don't write us off just yet	19:26
berndhs	yeah that's it :)	19:26
polteus	what is plan B?	19:26
CosmoHill	I thought Plan B was to kill everyone	19:27
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thiago_home	damn, our plan discovered! Let's start Plan C.	19:28
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niala1	morning'	19:29
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polteus	since nobody is going to ship meego smartphone for now, maybe you should focus on porting meego on android devices. Any chance to get from qualcomm the sources needed to have working 3d hw acceleration on meego?	19:31
polteus	see http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD#libEGL_and_libGLESv2	19:31
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niala1	meego on android.... that is stupid... why not meego on windows ? :)	19:31
pupnik_	no, on the device	19:32
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polteus	meego on android devices, niala1	19:32
niala1	ahhhh ok sorry i m stupid :)	19:32
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thiago_home	polteus: and you don't know if no one is going to ship	19:32
thiago_home	in fact, you know that nokia will ship	19:32
pupnik_	polteus: smoku has gotten meego running on the archos tablets	19:33
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smoku	pupnik, and dell streak ;P	19:33
berndhs	I had the feeling there were some manufacturers hiding in Asia working on meego devices	19:33
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thiago_home	if we give them something to put on their devices, they'll ship	19:35
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niala1	i think meego is a opportunity for little vendor. the problems is now xhat about qt. Qt is an important part of meego	19:36
thiago_home	do I have to repeat? Qt is not disappearing.	19:37
thiago_home	qt existed before nokia and will continue to exist after it	19:38
ColKilkenny	qt is just fine. if you have to worry about something then worry about meego devices	19:38
thiago_home	and we still have some cards left up our sleeves	19:38
niala1	berndhs: i m often here, and i rarely see asian people here	19:38
berndhs	most of the bugs are assigned to people with chinese names	19:38
gabrbedd	niala1: There are indeed several folks in asia working on MeeGo stuff.	19:39
niala1	berndhs: yes more on bugzilla	19:39
niala1	here is more a bar than a dev area	19:39
niala1	:)	19:39
lcuk	niala1, --> #meego-bar does actually exist	19:40
berndhs	I was thinking that some no-name manufacturers in Asia probably have something shippable this year, if soemone wants to market it	19:40
gabrbedd	niala1: E.g. http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=5924	19:40
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gabrbedd	niala1: One nice thing about MeeGo for small vendors is that they can work on their products incognito, and only announce when they're ready to announce.	19:41
smoku	gabrbedd, and this is specific to meego?	19:41
RST38h	thiago: Qt is not disappearing, but it is nolonger a framework for anything mass-marketed	19:42
gabrbedd	smoku: well, no... :-)	19:42
smoku	;-)	19:42
gabrbedd	smoku: but they don't even have to declare to the LF.	19:42
RST38h	thiago: Which, as I understand it, is the main reason of mass butthurt	19:42
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chouchoune	http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokia%E2%80%99s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/	19:43
chouchoune	We've also learned that Nokia's first MeeGo device, originally scheduled to be announced late last year, has been sent back to the drawing board by operators.	19:43
chouchoune	The problem, says our source, is in relation to the "flimsy' hardware keyboard mechanism, which fell short of operator standards.	19:43
Myrtti	rumours abound still	19:44
chouchoune	yes	19:44
niala1	today I do paintball, guess who I thought was:)	19:44
chouchoune	strange one	19:44
chouchoune	Instead, a second (and possibly last) MeeGo smartphone on the roadmap - the N9-01 - sans physical keyboard will be pushed out first, as earlier reported by Engadget.	19:44
chouchoune	Interestingly, well-placed sources also tell us that the device won't feature the stock MeeGo UI but instead one designed by "a three person external team rather than any of Nokia's hundreds of internal designers." It could be announced as early as next week at Mobile World Congress.	19:44
chouchoune	would be more interesting	19:44
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RST38h	Hm	19:45
thiago_home	you shouldn't trust everything you read	19:45
Myrtti	thank you, we are perfectly capable reading the article - based on rumours and sources who shall remain anonymous - ourselves	19:45
lcuk	question: providing what I read is true and that a Nokia MeeGo device is coming out - do we consider that one updatable? ie as MeeGo is developed, the device can be updated?	19:45
RST38h	Probably bullshit	19:45
chouchoune	thiago_home: I'm not trusting	19:45
chouchoune	just reporting rumours about meego	19:45
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Myrtti	ho-hum	19:45
Myrtti	don't you have anything better to do? like baking a cheesecake or playing Minecraft?	19:46
Myrtti	I vote for cheesecake myself	19:46
gabrbedd	Guys, how many phones did Apple develop last year? ONE.	19:46
lcuk	Myrtti, I have some cream in fridge, should I bring it over?	19:46
chouchoune	Myrtti: right now, no	19:46
gabrbedd	Chill out about Nokia only making ONE MeeGo phone.	19:46
gabrbedd	If it rocks, it'll rock.	19:47
Myrtti	chouchoune: sounds like you need to be corrupted with the joys of cheesecake and/or minecraft then	19:47
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gabrbedd	Oh, and thiago_home already rocks. :-)	19:49
GAN900	gabrbedd, except it's now a dead-end unsupported platform from Nokia's view.	19:49
GAN900	We're back to the 770 days	19:49
GAN900	But sans excitement about the future.	19:49
RST38h	GAN: You do not even know that	19:49
GAN900	Pretty bleak.	19:49
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Myrtti	GAN900 is our official pessimist	19:50
Myrtti	♥	19:50
* GAN900 waves.		19:50
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Myrtti	we love you anyway	19:50
Myrtti	my sister especially loves you	19:50
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GAN900	Is that where it ended up, eh? ;)	19:50
gabrbedd	GAN900: So, if it's a successful phone... do you really think they'll can it?	19:50
Myrtti	yup	19:50
chouchoune	Myrtti: I'll think about this, but would prefer to be corrupted by a pint of guinness	19:51
gabrbedd	Meanwhile, when do you think the first WP7 phone will ship?	19:51
* GAN900 still has 6 hours to go until Guinness.		19:51
jonnor	gabrbedd: N8 was successful	19:51
Myrtti	chouchoune: sorry, I don't drink myself so I can't corrupt anyone else with it	19:51
jonnor	well, is	19:51
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GAN900	gabrbedd, it'd have to be awfully successful.	19:51
gabrbedd	GAN900: indeed.	19:52
gabrbedd	jonnor: Well, I never heard my friends chatting about playing angry birds on their N8. :-)	19:52
hena	wife does that all the time	19:53
timoph	gabrbedd: I have	19:53
hirabayashitaro	Sorry for the "stupid" question. How is the licence of qt, is forkable or not?	19:53
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chouchoune	I've never heard anyone chatting about chatting angry birds at all by the way	19:53
chouchoune	not only with N8	19:53
polteus	hirabayashitaro: it's lgpl	19:53
jonnor	me neither	19:53
timoph	hirabayashitaro: why do you want to fork it?	19:53
timoph	I'm not seeing any reason for that	19:54
gabrbedd	hirabayashia: Yes, it's forkable... but it's too early to need to.	19:54
smoku	http://twitpic.com/3z1s28 - any idea what may be causing this?	19:54
hirabayashitaro	I don't. because seems to be like an hot topic out there.	19:54
hena	if someone's gonna fork it, it's microsoft	19:55
hena	;)	19:55
polteus	hirabayashitaro: one of the good things nokia did before elop was open sourcing qt. so yes, you can fork it :P	19:55
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thiago_home	polteus: nokia didn't do that	19:55
gabrbedd	smoku: I've seen that happen when the cable between the video card and the LCD goes bad.	19:55
MeeGoExperts	@smoku: Loose connection of some sort i'd say	19:55
thiago_home	Qt was open source long before Nokia	19:55
hirabayashitaro	well, so what's all this fear of Nokia about qt?	19:55
thiago_home	Qt was always open source, in fact	19:55
hena	it was also proprietary long before it was open source :D	19:56
gabrbedd	smoku: or loose, like MeeGoExpert said. :-)	19:56
hena	no it wasn't	19:56
smoku	MeeGoBot, loose connection on Xephyr? :>	19:56
MeeGoBot	smoku: Sorry, I've no idea what 'loose connection on Xephyr? :>' might be.	19:56
hirabayashitaro	and how Nokia can influence the development of qt?	19:56
smoku	s/MeeGoBot/MeeGoExperts/	19:56
jonnor	hirabayashitaro: you've never forked a big software project have you	19:56
achipa	hena: wasn't always (L)GPL, but that's a different story	19:56
achipa	(those not being the only open source licenses)	19:57
hirabayashitaro	jonnor: sure I have not. And I don't want to	19:57
thiago_home	hirabayashitaro: by paying 90%-95% of the people who work on it	19:57
gabrbedd	smoku: I don't use Xephyr, so I don't know.	19:57
jonnor	hirabayashitaro: good. Cause its not just a matter of taking the code and say I'm the new upstream now. (and its usually not a very good idea either, best used as a last resort)	19:58
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thiago_home	we don't want a fork	19:58
thiago_home	we want to work with everyone to make sure a fork isn't necessary	19:59
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thiago_home	it's not that we're stopping you. If you want to fork, you can.	19:59
thiago_home	we want to make sure that you don't have to.	19:59
hirabayashitaro	I'm not proposing to fork qt, I'm just asking about the current situation. To have a more clear idea of what we are talking about	19:59
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hirabayashitaro	and in which way the situation has changed	19:59
thiago_home	we're still trying to figure that out	20:00
thiago_home	please be patient with us	20:00
thiago_home	http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/12/nokia-new-strategic-direction-what-is-the-future-for-qt/	20:00
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* thiago_home will post a blog as soon as he knows enough to blog about		20:00
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hirabayashitaro	thiago_home: I know. But to consider the future of Qt I think we must consider it with at least 2 faces	20:01
thiago_home	which two faces?	20:01
lcuk	thiago_home, if I wanted to put in new feature to Qt, where would I start?	20:01
* thiago_home assumes that "two faces" is a Japanese way of saying "from two points of view"		20:02
hirabayashitaro	thiago_home: one is qt as something that nokia have. the other is qt as anopensource thing, something that everyone have	20:02
thiago_home	lcuk: today? clone it, write the feature, create a merge request	20:02
lcuk	thiago_home, I do not have skills	20:02
thiago_home	lcuk: soon, we'll have a different system and mailing lists, just like a regular open source project	20:02
lcuk	I can barely write my own code	20:02
thiago_home	lcuk: you can always pay someone to do it for you	20:02
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thiago_home	lcuk: we also have a bugtracker that tracks feature requests	20:03
roadi	they cant close it; if they close it developers will run away	20:03
lcuk	thiago_home, I have a kickass idea and feature that I want in Qt	20:03
jonnor	thiago_home: you really suggest people to do all the work before making sure you'd actually want it /accept it?	20:03
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg	20:03
thiago_home	hirabayashitaro: we want those two to be one and the same	20:03
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* gw280 waves		20:03
thiago_home	jonnor: no, I don't	20:03
thiago_home	jonnor: which is why we're opening up more and we'll have mailing lists	20:03
jonnor	thiago_home: very good :)	20:04
thiago_home	jonnor: so you can talk to developers and bounce ideas off before spending time writing code	20:04
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Venemo_N900	good afternoon MeeGoists :)	20:04
jonnor	thiago_home: but today there is no policy of using say the public bugtracker for this coordination?	20:04
thiago_home	jonnor: the bugtracker is the best place, today	20:04
lcuk	Venemo_N900, \o	20:04
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Venemo_N900	hey lcuk :)	20:05
Myrtti	I just wish people would have time and patience to wait for the real information to come through - very seldom do CEO's tell anything worthwhile that will actually be good enough to make long term plans over. Even the other Steve leaves the technical details for better inclined people to tell...	20:05
thiago_home	jonnor: the big problem is that the current merge request system is inefficient and full of cracks through which things are lost	20:05
thiago_home	jonnor: we're working to fix all of that	20:05
thiago_home	jonnor: I am dedicating 100% of my time to this	20:05
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RST38h	Myrtti: Real state of things may take a few months to reveal itself	20:05
RST38h	Myrtti: No reasonable human will wait this long	20:05
vivek__	hi	20:05
hirabayashitaro	thiago_home: I'll study something about licensing and come back. At this stage I'm not able understand the situation. Anyway thank you	20:05
jonnor	thiago_home: will this happen through improvements to gitorious?	20:06
Myrtti	RST38h: MAY	20:06
thiago_home	jonnor: we don't know	20:06
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thiago_home	jonnor: let me find a link for you	20:06
Myrtti	hirabayashitaro: I'd be surprised if anyone really understood the situation	20:06
RST38h	Myrtti: MAY with very high probability	20:06
* RST38h is looking at everything he can find about SLP in the meanwhile		20:06
thiago_home	jonnor: http://www.mail-archive.com/opengov@qt-labs.org/msg00255.html	20:07
thiago_home	jonnor: the two leading contenders are Gerrit (same as Android) and Crucible	20:07
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thiago_home	jonnor: those are the features we want	20:07
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CosmoHill	ffs, why isn't my phone on nokia.co.uk	20:09
thiago_home	gw280: is your employer now more willing to use meego? :-)	20:10
jonnor	thiago_home: thanks	20:10
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thiago_home	jonnor: by the way, join us in finding out more about the tools and what we'd like	20:11
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gw280	thiago_home: haha, you know I can't comment on such things :P	20:15
gw280	thiago_home: but QNX is a nice OS :)	20:15
thiago_home	gw280: I know you can't, but I'd like to tease you anyway :-)	20:16
gw280	thiago_home: just dropped by to see what all the commotion was about	20:16
gw280	thiago_home: helio's applied for a position with us I think	20:16
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gw280	go tease him :D	20:17
thiago_home	helio applied for a position with us too	20:17
* gw280 gasps		20:17
gw280	heliocastro: mercenary!	20:17
thiago_home	but you guys aren't doing open source or qt, so I can't recommend you to any of my friends.	20:18
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mikhas	hah, burned	20:18
CosmoHill	hehe	20:18
mikhas	indeed, many companies fail to see that we want our work to be visible	20:18
gw280	thiago_home: we're doing a little bit, but yeah, it's kind of annoying	20:19
mikhas	more intense motivation than money	20:19
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gw280	thiago_home: it's actually got a lot better since we joined... pmax is slowly changing the company around	20:19
thiago_home	gw280: that's great	20:19
thiago_home	haven't talked to him in ages though	20:20
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gw280	he's been insanely busy	20:20
thiago_home	every now and then I see his name pop up in skype	20:20
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gw280	thiago_home: I think he sends like 100 emails an hour for work	20:20
CosmoHill	gw280: what company is this?	20:20
gw280	RIM	20:21
CosmoHill	ah	20:21
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thiago_home	gw280: well, at least that's what blackberries excel at :-)	20:22
gw280	rofl	20:22
RST38h	heh	20:22
gw280	he's addicted to them	20:22
thiago_home	he must have a couple of torches	20:23
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thiago_home	before RIM, he already had at least 5 cell phones in every meeting we went to	20:23
gw280	thiago_home: if by a couple you mean 10 then yeah	20:23
gw280	thiago_home: he carries around a laptop bag full of phones these days	20:23
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gw280	thiago_home: I think he's normally got 20+ phones and 2+ tablets on him	20:23
CosmoHill	wouldn't a laptop be more useful?	20:23
gw280	he carries that around too	20:24
thiago_home	CosmoHill: he probably gets a laptop for the bag alone :-P	20:24
CosmoHill	he sounds' like a mugger's goldmine	20:24
gw280	thiago_home: I wonder what airport security think when he's going through	20:25
gw280	he flies /a lot/	20:25
thiago_home	lol	20:25
gw280	like every few days	20:25
thiago_home	he already flew a lot back in 2006/7	20:25
gw280	yeah, he's cut down since then	20:25
* thiago_home only spent 90 days out of the country last year		20:26
gw280	lol	20:26
* CosmoHill has never been out of the country		20:26
thiago_home	59 on business, the rest was vacation	20:26
mikhas	flying is so annoying	20:26
gw280	thiago_home: so, is Nokia going to dump Qt and then the Free Qt Foundation will kick in? :P	20:26
gw280	2 clause BSD!	20:26
* RST38h has forgotten which country is "in" and which is "out"		20:26
mikhas	gw280, in a way, that'd be great. No legalese scan for code contributions.	20:26
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mikhas	only one repo etc	20:27
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gw280	but but but that goes against the gitorious model of one repo for every user	20:27
thiago_home	one central repo doesn't prevent you from having one	20:28
mikhas	and this silly "no it's not really a copyright assignment" could go, too	20:28
* thiago_home has three		20:28
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mikhas	oh well, just dreams	20:28
jonnor	gw280: he's not referring to the multiple public repos	20:28
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gw280	jonnor: yes, I know, I was joking.	20:29
CosmoHill	thiago_home: are we talking about phones or repos now?	20:29
mikhas	Qt	20:29
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gw280	I'm against Gitorious' crazy sandboxing model	20:29
thiago_home	CosmoHill: repos	20:29
gw280	I think they'd do a lot better by have branch sandboxes in git	20:29
gw280	i mean, that's what git is good at	20:29
smoku	gw280, replace Nokia by Microsoft in that Qt scenario, and it is very likely	20:29
mikhas	gw280, most people only have those gitorious repos because of merge requests	20:30
mikhas	there is no other way ...	20:30
gw280	right, my point is that gitorious is badly designed for that sort of thing	20:30
gw280	it's a huge resource hog for no reason	20:30
jonnor	gw280: gitorious used git. Its just that at some point you want your work to be public, and then a public git repo makes sense	20:30
mikhas	(kinda silly that merge requests are part of the cloned repo. I once deleted some repos, guess what happened to all my merge requests ...)	20:30
thiago_home	hence the point in getting a new system	20:30
thiago_home	see the requirements in the link I posted to jonnor half an hour ago	20:31
jonnor	actually git typically uses hardlinks internally for git clones	20:31
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* CosmoHill looks at RIM jobs and see's "LFS" mentioned :)		20:34
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naes	hello all. im trying to change the xterm launch command. ive found meego-xterm.desktop and i changed the "Exec" line from "Exec=xterm" to "Exec=xterm -fg CadetBlue3 -bg grey20" but the colors dont change next time I run xterm... any ideas?	20:40
jonnor	How do you run xterm?	20:40
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CosmoHill	Stskeeps: you're still op'd	20:41
naes	well, im new to meego. i run it by clicking the xterm link under Home -> Tools -> xterm Terminal	20:41
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naes	i did some googling and it "appears" as though the .desktop files in usr/share/applications controls these things	20:42
jonnor	That is the standard method of controlling such, yes.	20:42
naes	from within xterm ive run "xterm -fg CadetBlue3 -bg grey20" and a new instance is created with the modified color shceme	20:43
naes	wait a second	20:43
naes	i just changed the Exec line to "Exec=navit" and it still runs xterm	20:44
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naes	is there a command i need to run to refresh things?	20:44
naes	it appears as though the side bar might read the .desktop files once on startup	20:44
naes	and not every time an app is run?	20:44
jonnor	that is likely yes	20:44
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naes	go it	20:46
naes	had to then "pkill startivi"	20:46
naes	thanks for letting me bounce my problems off you hehe	20:46
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sivang	hi all	20:50
sivang	how are things looking in meego world this saturday night?	20:50
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Venemo_N900	sivang: people are upset about nokia's decision from yesterday	20:50
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sivang	Venemo_N900: ah, so it was real. I thought it wasa bad bad nightmare	20:51
Venemo_N900	sivang: unfortunately	20:51
sivang	Venemo_N900: I actually woke up today and thought "wow I should stop the drugs"	20:51
Venemo_N900	lol sivang :D	20:51
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sivang	Venemo_N900: or the antibiotics, since the side effects said helucinations could be one of them	20:53
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sivang	Venemo_N900: I wish I was kidding	20:53
Venemo_N900	sivang: yeah	20:53
sivang	hey MohammadAG	20:53
Venemo_N900	sivang: well i wasn't online yesterday at all	20:54
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sivang	Venemo_N900: you were lucky	20:54
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Venemo_N900	sivang: reading this news was a very bad start for today though	20:54
sivang	yes, I am contemplating all weekend what to do now	20:55
sivang	I had so much plans and eneregy for the developers offering	20:55
pupnik_	what now	20:55
sivang	but now, as it seems discussion of at least some of the people on the paid sude of the ecosystem say meego should be a core platform	20:55
berndhs	sivang: maybe collect independent developers, and approach another manufacturer	20:56
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sivang	brause: yes, I was thinking of writing Mark Shutteworth	20:56
Myrtti	linaro...	20:56
Venemo_N900	sivang: I totally agree	20:57
Myrtti	he's not going to make hardware	20:57
elop-devil	http://parislemon.com/post/3237400800/introducing-the-microsoft-puppet	20:57
Venemo_N900	sivang: who's Mark Shutteworth?	20:57
MohammadAG	hey sivang	20:57
sivang	Venemo_N900: and old friend of mine	20:57
sivang	Venemo_N900: (not kidding)	20:58
Venemo_N900	sivang: I believe, but I haven't heard about him	20:58
pupnik_	nice elop-devil	20:59
berndhs	when you write Mark, be careful to spell his name correctly :)	20:59
Venemo_N900	elop-devil: very sad	20:59
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gabrbedd	Venemo_N900: In case you're serious... Shuttleworth is the head of Canonical (Ubuntu)	20:59
Venemo_N900	gabrbedd: thanks	21:00
lpotter	hmm I hought Shuttleowrth was some astronaut	21:00
Venemo_N900	gabrbedd: yes, I was serious	21:00
berndhs	lpotter: he went on a vacation in space, same guy	21:00
Venemo_N900	sivang: and what would you write to him?	21:00
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elop-devil	yes: very sad, hope it only was an april fool's day joke but it's true	21:01
elop-devil	Microsoft Buys Nokia for $0	21:01
elop-devil	http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/02/11/nokia	21:01
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velope	elop-devil: maybe nokia but not us	21:02
* CosmoHill pokes Stskeeps		21:02
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sivang	Venemo_N900: to buy qt dev frameworks, get HP or dell or better, LG and make sure qt lives for mobile development or so.	21:03
sivang	Venemo_N900: I can't see where qt fits in in the new order, and I am not sure a M$ strategy will let meego back into nokia even if it becomes that next best thing since sliced bread	21:04
sivang	and since symbian is scheduled for purge to window phone, and qt targetted for meego and symbian...	21:04
sivang	Venemo_N900: you get the picture?	21:04
kraiskil	don't Qt run on Windows too ;)	21:05
roadi	qt is more than a framework for mobile devices like the n900 or meego os.	21:05
Chani	qt will go on :)	21:05
roadi	Chani: thats it	21:05
sivang	roadi: it must have a commercial backing entity as nokia done so far	21:05
sivang	unfortunately, I took some courses in open economy and marketing during uni	21:06
sivang	so during the night, it hit me that under a M$ strategy qt will not get the same r&d budget as before	21:06
sivang	well, it is stated in reorg graphs	21:06
sivang	google	21:06
sivang	see for yourself	21:06
Chani	qt was getting a bit much r&d anyways	21:06
Chani	oh crap, I was supposed to be leaving	21:07
lpotter	you mean not a bit much...	21:07
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sivang	lpotter: nokia did not invest money in qt at all?	21:08
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Chani	nokia was pushing qt to grow extremely fast.	21:08
Jartza	and now it's killing it extremely fast :)	21:09
lpotter	well, considering the size of Qt development...	21:09
Chani	Jartza: actually they're not killing it	21:09
sivang	also, many contributors would not be interested to contribute anymore or use it to develop apps for it because it will be identified with Microsoft	21:09
Chani	I'm not sure wtf they are doing, but .. well anyways they can't kill it	21:09
lpotter	Qt has always run on windows	21:09
elop-devil	sivang: I agree	21:09
Chani	sivang: wtf?	21:09
sivang	Chani: microsof has killed better things and better frameworks	21:10
Chani	sivang: we have the Free Qt Foundation, if worst comes to worst	21:10
sivang	Chani: from experience and from peroinsla contact with inventors who got took over	21:10
GAN900	Problem with the "Full steam ahead" comments is that it seems to fail to take into effect the perception effect Nokia basically dropping MeeGo will have on MeeGo.	21:10
sivang	GAN900: the perception about anhytihng nokia has been doping	21:10
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lpotter	nokia is not dropping meego	21:10
Jartza	oh well	21:10
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Chani	oh right, I was leaving	21:11
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Jartza	at least the interest to Qt vanished in one day, at least in education-business	21:11
GAN900	lpotter, well, it went from their primary platform to some R&D project	21:11
sivang	GAN900: you cannot preach open source for years and then pay royalities to M$ and expect you evelopers to follow you anymore	21:11
Jaffa	lpotter: No, just branding it "experimental", "R&D" and planning to ship exactly one device at some point "this year"	21:11
GAN900	We saw how well that worked for Maemo.	21:11
lpotter	meego is it's "disruptive thechnology"	21:11
sivang	Jaffa++	21:11
GAN900	lpotter, effectively the same thing to the market.	21:11
Jartza	nokia subsidiaries cancelled all qt-courses scheduled for this year \o/	21:11
lpotter	Jaffa: this changes nothing, really	21:11
Jaffa	lpotter: Ri-ight.	21:12
smoku	lbt_, X-Fade, Is something wrong with community OBS?	21:12
smoku	Trying openSUSE Build Service server for rpm (MeeGo:current:Core), not found at repo.pub.meego.com.	21:12
Jaffa	lpotter: I'm afraid I think that's so very wrong.	21:12
sivang	lpotter: please grasp reality	21:12
elop-devil	Its clear that nokia will abandon the ship of OSS and Meego without nokia would become a moblin with a different name, dont think?	21:12
sivang	lpotter: ask dneary about cancelled qt courses	21:12
sivang	lpotter: as me about active leave from qt since app developers felt it has non stable future	21:12
sivang	lpotter: I can give you names of 10 contacts throughout EU who refused to let me help them in qt	21:13
sivang	lpotter: owners of companies	21:13
jonnor	elop-devil: no, Moblin was only for netbooks	21:13
sivang	lpotter: small one, yes	21:13
Jaffa	Now, hopefully some relatively big names will have some MeeGo tablets lined up for MWC. That might salvage something, but their boards will be asking "why are we using MeeGo when one of its own founders considers it only an experimental project?"	21:13
timoph	smoku: I got the same. local builds didn't work but in the server they do	21:13
jonnor	elop-devil: and had fewer resources behind it	21:13
smoku	timoph, yeah. I wanted to fetch some packages to do local build	21:13
lpotter	sorry to inform you , but meego has always been experimental R&D	21:13
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Jaffa	lpotter: Source?	21:13
elop-devil	jonnor: and that is the final destiny of meego without nokia supporting it, dont think?	21:14
sivang	and it just hit me tat new microsoft lead nokia will not use meego for a disruptive technology the next time	21:14
Venemo_N900	sivang: will he be able to do that?	21:14
lpotter	source is me	21:14
Jaffa	lpotter: Anyway, Qt was the platform. It now isn't.	21:14
sivang	but a windows innovation	21:14
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jonnor	elop-devil: no, Meego targets other things that netbooks	21:14
sivang	so sometimes you just have to look at reality in the eyes	21:14
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sivang	because you also have to make a living	21:14
Venemo_N900	anyway	21:14
jonnor	Jaffa: Qt is still the application platform for Meego	21:15
Venemo_N900	WP7's UI looks awful. if that's the direction, then no more nokia for me.	21:15
Jaffa	jonnor: But it's not for Nokia.	21:15
sivang	they will never change strategy again, because microsoft don't have any more vendors to screw like they did with the others	21:15
elop-devil	jonnor: yes, i know, but thats because nokia was supporting it... but now this seems that will change	21:15
lbt_	smoku: sorry, adsl drop	21:15
sivang	so this time this deal sticks	21:15
sivang	for better or worse	21:15
Jaffa	jonnor: And Nokia brought the mass-market devices to Qt/MeeGo (delete as appropriate)	21:15
jonnor	Jaffa: Not in smartphones no. But it is in featurephones (ontop of Symbian)	21:15
sivang	and the Finnish givernment was already notified :)	21:15
lbt_	smoku: so... more details?	21:16
Jaffa	jonnor: But that's the market that Nokia was losing ground in...	21:16
Jartza	unfortunately Finnish government didn't get the message :P	21:16
jonnor	Jaffa: Nokia has not brough anything yet :)	21:16
mikhas	Jaffa, agree - Nokia's contribution to MeeGo wouldn't have been software as much - Intel did a better job there - but the devices ...	21:16
Jartza	the prime minister was just commenting that "this is best for nokia and we believe that the company knows what it does..."	21:16
Jaffa	jonnor: No; and no-one else has brought any either. So it's a nice base for IVI or an STB...	21:16
sivang	Jartza: I gues if they did they would intervene in the process of making one of europes largest job provider to a steal factory	21:16
mikhas	funny how a CEO with Microsoft shares is allowed to make such decisions though.	21:16
pupnik	the company != the invaders	21:17
Jartza	unfortunately, without Nokia Finland would be a dying ship	21:17
smoku	lbt_, 'osc build' does not pull packages from MeeGo:current:Core. only from my home:smoku:* repos	21:17
jonnor	Jaffa: yes, this is true. I don't like it either	21:17
Jartza	in the same state as Greece or Ireland... or even worse	21:17
sivang	Jartza: that what everybody there told me, but a cabbi told me that they will find something else asthey are smart.	21:17
lbt_	hmm	21:17
sivang	Jartza: and they are very very samrt	21:17
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timoph	lbt: the same happens for me	21:17
sivang	uI Know, but I guess you need more than just technolgical lead to succeed in today's crewl world	21:18
Jartza	sivang: who are they?	21:18
Jartza	or "they"	21:18
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pupnik	design phones ppl want to buy	21:18
* pupnik spins the propellor on his beanie		21:18
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sivang	Jartza: folks inventing technology in finland :)	21:20
Jartza	oh. yes we are. but still it would hurt if we got 10000 unemployed it-persons	21:20
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Jartza	as finland only has 5 million people :)	21:20
pupnik	finland does a lot of cool stuff for being so small	21:21
berndhs	twice that many in silicon valley :)	21:21
lbt	smoku: I'm kinda busy... I need to practically cut'n'paste stuff to reproduce. Can you log a bug with details please. I think we have the community OBS allocating to me now anyway	21:22
Jartza	pupnik: well we have a long history of being oppressed by "bigger ones", so we've found out ways to survive on our own :)	21:22
Jartza	that also includes implementing and inventing a lot of stuff	21:22
smoku	lbt, ok. no hurry ;-)	21:23
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elop-devil	.	21:24
sivang	Jartza: Iknow, and this what hurts me the most in this situation. this is forgetting the company's expertise and letting someone else control your platofrm.	21:25
Jartza	yeah	21:26
Jartza	and it also affects quite a lot of others.	21:26
Jartza	not just Nokia	21:27
Jartza	it also looks like I have to find another business	21:27
shyoty_	basically giving up the mobile+services ecosystem to ms doesnt look good	21:28
sivang	shyoty_: it is a move which would be very hard to reverse that is the problem	21:29
shyoty_	going back to something of nokia's own later will be even more late than now and not going to happen i guess	21:29
shyoty_	yup	21:29
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Jartza	as I have my own small training company, I mainly train Qt/maemo/MeeGO/Linux -stuff...	21:30
Jartza	one week ago my work situation for this year looked promising	21:31
Jartza	yesterday, 80% of courses got cancelled	21:31
Venemo_N900	Jartza: I'm sorry :(	21:31
shyoty	:/	21:31
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Jartza	yeah, it's a bit painful as self-employed entrepreneur...	21:33
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Jartza	either I have to learn some new topics myself, or forget the whole thing	21:33
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Jartza	but anyways it looks like I also have to find new customers	21:33
Venemo_N900	Jartza: http://silverlight.net :P	21:33
Jartza	nope	21:33
elop-devil	hohoho	21:33
shyoty	:)	21:33
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Venemo_N900	xD	21:34
Jartza	most probably "Android Java" and Objective C :P	21:34
Venemo_N900	heheh	21:34
pinchartl	Jartza: why would you want to learn that ?	21:35
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shyoty	what good is nokia going to get from the deal, considering what it's giving up	21:35
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Venemo_N900	shyoty: nothing really, imo	21:36
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Jartza	pinchartl: to be able to train those subjects. at least it seems that there is an order for those courses.	21:36
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shyoty	yes that's what i think too	21:36
Jartza	as training is what I'm good at	21:37
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Jartza	I would like to continue training qt/maemo/meego/linux -subjects, but at least at the moment it looks like no-go	21:38
Jartza	and I'm pretty sure that monday will bring more cancellations	21:38
pinchartl	Jartza: if suicide bombing was the next big thing, you wouldn't train for it :-)	21:38
Jartza	nope :)	21:39
Jartza	but I have to live	21:39
Jartza	I pay my own salary	21:39
pinchartl	so do I	21:39
pinchartl	and I'm a Nokia contractor working on MeeGo	21:39
Venemo_N900	Jartza: I also feel sorry for all the guys who're being fired by nokia	21:39
Jartza	at the moment it looks like I'm going to starve as 80% of my clients cancelled :P	21:39
Jartza	Venemo_N900: me too.	21:39
topeira	I think a lot of people will sue them...	21:40
Jartza	although I already left Nokia at 2008	21:40
Jartza	or was it 2007 already	21:40
Venemo_N900	Jartza: :(	21:40
Jartza	but I left voluntarily :)	21:40
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Stskeeps	well, or we can end up creating our own market ;)	21:43
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: what do you mean?	21:43
pinchartl	Stskeeps: I like that idea much better	21:44
TSCHAKeee	:(	21:44
Stskeeps	meego's a quite nice platform and i definately feel there's room for meego-based products	21:44
Stskeeps	and interest, too	21:44
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: I agree	21:44
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: so how will we achieve this?	21:44
TSCHAKeee	the problem is, the embedded market has a high barrier of entry for small entities	21:45
TSCHAKeee	cost of development hardware	21:45
TSCHAKeee	cost of prototyping	21:45
Jaffa	See OpenMoko, GP2X, Pandora, ...	21:45
Jaffa	Stskeeps: I'd love to have a big name come in and support MeeGo.	21:45
velope	meego is interesting but maybe still too unfinished	21:45
Jaffa	Oooh, let's resurrect Psion :-)	21:45
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: time to market even in embedded is key - if you don't have to reinvent your platform and just make a hardware adaptation on top of meego, that alone cuts a -lot- of time	21:46
Venemo_N900	Jaffa: let's get Archos to manufacture MeeGo tablets	21:46
TSCHAKeee	Stskeeps: and I do agree there.	21:46
TSCHAKeee	Stskeeps: my problem that I keep running into, is finding hardware where I can actually talk to somebody to get drivers for something as trivial as the graphics chip.	21:46
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: Linaro helps this matter a lot :)	21:46
TSCHAKeee	i.e. the #(%#@%(#@ Mali200	21:46
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: Linaro?	21:46
Stskeeps	TSCHAKeee: i've seen mali packaged for meego	21:47
TSCHAKeee	...WHERE?!	21:47
Jaffa	Venemo_N900: Commoditising ARM Linux	21:47
Venemo_N900	mhm	21:47
Venemo_N900	Jaffa: commoditising?	21:47
TSCHAKeee	Stskeeps: I wish we could convince OpenPeak to sell one offs of their hardware... I have a Joggler here (OpenFrame basically), and it is _WONDERFUL_ hardware	21:48
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Jaffa	Venemo_N900: Err, making cheap & easy. A commodity.	21:48
Venemo_N900	Jaffa: ah, okay	21:48
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TSCHAKeee	hmm guys, I have a package waiting to be submitted into OBS	21:49
TSCHAKeee	did anyone notice?	21:49
TSCHAKeee	for like, two days now.	21:49
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CosmoHill	looking at google maps, London reminds me of the death star	21:52
lindi-	CosmoHill: is openstreetmap.org any better?	21:55
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CosmoHill	I mean you have london, a bit of green then a small city next to it	21:55
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sivang	Stskeeps: we shold start approching a handset vendor or talk to Intel about this	21:59
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Jartza	http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nokia-appoints-chris-weber-to-president-of-nokia-inc-us-and-head-of-markets-north-america-115904119.html	22:00
Jartza	oh... more people from Microsoft :)	22:00
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velope	Jartza: yes, apple outsider mentioned it "it's a coup, folks", looks bad	22:02
Jartza	yeah	22:02
Stskeeps	Jartza: could you tell me a bit more about your qt courses?	22:02
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Jartza	Stskeeps: what about them? :)	22:03
Jartza	Stskeeps: I mostly train people who already know C++ (mostly symbian-people) to Qt.	22:03
Jartza	usually 3-5 day courses	22:03
Jartza	of course I also teach C++ if that's needed	22:03
sivang	Jartza: oh nice	22:03
Jartza	http://firebay.fi/	22:04
Jartza	actually I should make an english homepage :)	22:04
Stskeeps	Jartza: bookmarked, ta	22:04
Venemo_N900	sivang: is there anything Intel has to say about this horseshit?	22:04
Stskeeps	Venemo_N900: intel made a blog post earlier	22:04
Stskeeps	http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2011/02/intel_and_meego.php	22:04
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: link please?	22:04
Venemo_N900	Stskeeps: thanks	22:04
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Jartza	I was just going to become Forum Nokia certified trainer.	22:05
Jartza	I don't know how advantageous that would be right now as I know close to nothing about windows :)	22:05
Jartza	I haven't used windows in like 6-7 years, unless forced to :D	22:05
SpeedEvil	One of those trainers with lights in the heels?	22:06
Jartza	?	22:06
SpeedEvil	xwindows is windows too!	22:06
SpeedEvil	nvm	22:06
Jartza	I don't know about the lights :)	22:06
Jartza	except I went to boston to train Nokia people. During the course they got an announcement that the whole site was going to be shut down.	22:07
Jartza	so I basically went there to shut down the lights :)	22:07
sivang	Jartza: buston site?	22:07
Jartza	boston...	22:07
sivang	yes	22:07
Jaffa	sivang: Well, it'd have to be managed carefully. "MeeGo Project runs around looking for hardware platforms and sponsors" isn't necessarily a positive headline.	22:07
sivang	Jaffa: true	22:07
sivang	Jaffa: that is why intel could take the lead on handset as well until another one comes	22:08
Venemo_N900	Jaffa: well Intel still has a hw platform and they're behing MeeGo also	22:08
Jartza	or more closely, it was in Burlington	22:08
Jaffa	Venemo_N900: Intel has a hardware platform, true. But no CE manufacturing arm	22:08
Jartza	after that I went to Vancouver site.	22:08
tarantism_	do handset vendors have to pay google for android?	22:08
Jartza	again, during the course they got an announcement	22:08
Jartza	this time they only did shut down half of the jobs there.	22:09
Stskeeps	tarantism_: you asked me a question last night and i didn't manage to answer before you left, could you re-iterate it?	22:09
Jartza	but I got a bit afraid :D	22:09
Stskeeps	Jartza: angel of death?	22:09
Stskeeps	:P	22:09
Jaffa	Now, true, Android made HTC a much more household name than they were before Android; so maybe MeeGo could do the same for another smaller manufacturer.	22:09
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Venemo_N900	Jartza: sound very bad	22:09
Venemo_N900	Jaffa: let's approach Archos?	22:09
Jartza	well, not my fault of course, but just strange coincidences :)	22:09
sivang	Jartza: precisly	22:09
Stskeeps	Jartza: how do you feel about visiting MS headquarters?	22:09
Stskeeps	:P	22:09
Jartza	Stskeeps: :D	22:09
Jartza	I'd love to	22:10
Venemo_N900	Jartza: :D	22:10
tarantism_	stskeeps: I was trying to understand how the development programme worked. ie who manages the timescales?	22:10
Jartza	maybe I could teach some Qt for them :D	22:10
Venemo_N900	Jartza: sure!	22:10
sivang	din't elop said silverlight it is going to be?	22:10
sivang	or is thing part of the trnasition stage? :)	22:10
Stskeeps	tarantism_: ok, so, generally, a feature is first accepted when someone commits to taking care of it - then, as release schedule slips, it's put onto a next release/reevaluated	22:10
CosmoHill	sivang: oh god	22:10
CosmoHill	tbh I wouldn't mind learning silverlight but they don't support my mac	22:11
tarantism_	stskeeps: so I guess it's not possible to have one huge gantt chart that tells you when everything will be done.	22:11
sivang	Stskeeps: ms HQs ? :)	22:12
Stskeeps	tarantism_: well, in a realistic world we have release targets for when a feature's supposed to be in	22:12
Jartza	hmmh	22:12
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Jartza	maybe I'll send some email to MS that I'm more than willing to come over and organize few training sessions :)	22:13
Jartza	"if you just pay my flights... this is just for common good!"	22:13
tarantism_	stskeeps: thanks. just for my interest. i've never worked on something with this many moving parts.	22:13
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Stskeeps	tarantism_: i've had to cut off reading about kernel and ivi, too much to follow :)	22:16
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tarantism_	stskeeps: understand. I'd imagined that you were in testing and bug fixing at this time.	22:18
chouchoune	Venemo_N900: why would Archos use Meego, they began a quite strong Android strategy	22:18
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: because right now everyone's making android tablets	22:19
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: they could make differece by making a MeeGo tablet	22:19
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chouchoune	right, but why Archos and not others ?	22:19
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: I didn't say 'not the others'	22:20
chouchoune	what makes the thing easyer with Archos ?	22:20
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: they were just first to come to my mind, that's all	22:20
chouchoune	ok, I thought you wanted to point that it would be maybe easyer with Archos than others	22:20
chouchoune	ok ;)	22:20
Jartza	hmmh.	22:20
Jartza	a friend of mine told that there's a lot of Qt/MeeGo -activities going on in Spain	22:21
chouchoune	but actually, Archos hasn't any phone	22:21
Jartza	maybe I should go there to train.	22:21
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: also, Archos has opened up their tablets to allow running other OSes	22:21
Venemo_N900	chouchoune: yeah, they make tablets	22:21
chouchoune	and Intel announced some months ago that they partnered with Acer for a Meego tablet no ?	22:21
chouchoune	http://talklaptops.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/intel-barclays-capital-slide-12-10-small.jpg	22:23
chouchoune	I don't know if it's still planned ...	22:23
tarantism_	acer might make a phone (speculation)	22:24
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TSCHAKeee	sigh, meego still the 3rd rate world for hardware people.	22:27
pupnik	?	22:27
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pexi	http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/	22:34
Stskeeps	pexi: this isn't #wp7, sorry :)	22:34
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pexi	:)	22:37
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sivang_LG_TOP	Chani: here?	22:46
sivang_LG_TOP	Chani: look at th graphs - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/	22:46
sivang_LG_TOP	Chani: and at the second page	22:46
sivang_LG_TOP	Chani: this is partially what decision makers are reading, hence the problem	22:47
sivang_LG_TOP	now I'm off.	22:47
CosmoHill	sivang: what phone do you have and what do you think of it?	22:48
treebeen`	pexi: whatever, who cares about nokia anymore? they will just make some wp7 phones now. i don't want wp7 anyway. and even if I wanted it, why should I buy a nokia device (when it's finally available)?	22:48
pupnik	Why not fire elop now?	22:48
pupnik	How many billions in value has he cost nokia?	22:48
sivang_LG_TOP	CosmoHill: I have a computer that has a call making app	22:49
pexi	they are still developing meego	22:49
sivang_LG_TOP	CosmoHill: that computer is RX-51	22:49
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pexi	but they need good smartphones for the masses	22:49
pexi	http://www.tietoviikko.fi/multimedia/archive/00087/Nokian-tutkimus-ja-k_87075a.jpg	22:50
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pupnik	some analysis from the Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/	22:51
Stskeeps	yeah, was pasted above	22:52
sivang_LG_TOP	CosmoHill: this is just part of what I think of it, and only a small taste how better it will get with MeeGo: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/sivan-greenbergs-forum-nokia-blog/2010/09/29/maemo-meego-ivi-without-an-in-built-ivi-system-or-how-to-be-in-tel-aviv-and-feel-a-bit-like-you-re-in-helsinki	22:52
CosmoHill	it's a week of long URLs	22:53
sivang_LG_TOP	maybe forum nokia move to sharepoint now so it will be better :P	22:53
sivang_LG_TOP	CosmoHill: I hope it does not sound sick, but I think I am inlove with this small computer who's a companion and a portal to the great world where ever I go.	22:54
sivang_LG_TOP	now I 'm gone laters	22:55
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n97	anyone now which phone is best supported by meego? htc hd2 maybe?	22:59
Stskeeps	n97: n900, probably	23:00
n97	lets just say Nokia is no alternative these days	23:00
n97	I got burned by N770, N810 and so on	23:01
Stskeeps	yes, but you asked a question and i told you :)	23:01
Stskeeps	htc hd2 doesn't even have voice, afaik	23:01
* TSCHAKeee rolls his eyes		23:01
TSCHAKeee	"burned" by the N770/N810 and so on???	23:02
TSCHAKeee	really?	23:02
n97	yepp, the hardware faulted on be right after the waranty whent out	23:02
TSCHAKeee	that's funny. I have a 770 that still works, I bought in 2005.	23:03
TSCHAKeee	my n800 and n810 still work as well, (I use my N810 as my pda, with GarnetVM installed)	23:03
n97	the N810 was solid as a rock, but the touch screen stopped working all of a sudden	23:04
TSCHAKeee	my n900 is my primary carry around though.	23:04
GAN900	n97, the cables often came loose.	23:04
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GAN900	n97, you can open them up and reattach.	23:04
n97	is that possible to fix in a somewhat easy way?	23:04
n97	allright!	23:04
n97	that was good news :)	23:05
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CosmoHill	n97: are you gonna change your nick when you get a new phone?	23:05
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n97	CosmoHill: I was hoping for n9	23:06
n97	but you know...	23:06
CosmoHill	someone took your nick?	23:06
CosmoHill	two a guy 2 years to find out why I use my surname on this server but not another one	23:06
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CosmoHill	*took	23:07
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pupnik	http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-022.htm [ The Windows MetaFile Backdoor ] - Trojan horse malware manufacturer coming soon, to a phone near you?	23:27
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pinchartl	I'm not sure if any CEO in the history of computer-related companies has ever delivered a "you're a worthless bunch unable to deliver proper software, I don't need you anymore" message to all his software developers	23:31
pinchartl	but we "worthless bunch" ought to answer	23:32
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Stskeeps	there's a lot of energy in anger ;)	23:32
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pinchartl	which is why we should use that energe to constructive means while it's there	23:33
Stskeeps	:nod:	23:33
n97	Stskeeps: are you the same as on talk.maemo.org and working on maemo 5 for N810?	23:33
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Stskeeps	n97: yes but no	23:33
pinchartl	Tunisia, then Egypt, then Nokia ? :-D	23:34
n97	I have been lurking that board for a long time	23:34
n97	you make lots of good points from time to time	23:34
pupnik	indeed he does	23:35
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Stskeeps	also a lot of bad ones ;)	23:36
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irz	tunisia and egypt have lost a dictator, not gained one	23:36
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pinchartl	irz: I mean it's now time to follow that path, now that we got a dictator ;-)	23:37
pinchartl	for all I know he might just be a puppet	23:38
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bunk	pinchartl: Getting rid of the dictator when he ruled 20+ years?	23:48
pinchartl	bunk: this one ruled for a couple of months only, but did an impressive amount of damage in such a short time	23:49
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bunk	pinchartl: I don't think it's only his fault. IMHO the problem is that N did two big strategical changes within less than 12 months.	23:51
pinchartl	bunk: management before him was bad as well. but this is the deadly blow	23:51
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bunk	pinchartl: Any of the 3 platform options (Symbian, MeeGo, Windows) sunds like a valid choice with advantages and disadvantages to me, but the huge overhead of switching strategies makes the frequent changes scary.	23:53
chouchoune	in Egypt and Tunisia, the dictarors where seen as good leaders at the beginning : that's a big difference with Nokia ;)	23:54
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bunk	pinchartl: Another example is the engineering effort spent on (and the GTK+ engineers lost) in the GTK+ -> Qt transition, only for now ditching Qt.	23:54
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Kypeli	MeeGo could not deliver so it was time for Nokia management to look for something that could.	23:56
* bunk doesn't like Windows, but also sees possible advantages for N in the partnership with M$		23:57
Stskeeps	Kypeli: well, by MeeGo do you mean meego.com or Harmattan program	23:58
Stskeeps	first one isn't as bad as latter, probably :)	23:58
danielvaz	who won was android/google	23:58

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