| thiago_home | God hates WP7? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| CosmoHill | Matan[M]: why does it sucks? | 00:03 |
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| Matan[M] | CosmoHill: this gui, this no multitasking, this not working in poland apps, this backward incompatibility, this bugs, this shit, oh god save the meego before something like this | 00:06 |
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| Matan[M] | CosmoHill: *this no backward incompatibility... ;] | 00:33 |
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| * alterego cringes at 25M being installed into his rootfs | 00:36 | |
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| Umeaboy | Hi! | 00:39 |
| Umeaboy | Wow! What an amazing experience using Meego 1.1 in a LG X110 Netbook!!!! | 00:40 |
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| Umeaboy | I couldn't find a button to Shutdown the computer so I clicked the Power-button & then Shutdown. | 00:47 |
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| thiago_home | that's how you shut down | 00:48 |
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| Umeaboy | Okey. | 00:50 |
| Umeaboy | 25 seconds to boot. | 00:50 |
| Umeaboy | Not bad. | 00:50 |
| Umeaboy | Not bad at all. | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | that's a lot | 00:50 |
| Umeaboy | ;) | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | it should boot in 12 seconds or less | 00:50 |
| Umeaboy | I haven't updated it until now. | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | well, from GRUB to fully running | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | the time from power on to GRUB isn't something we can influence | 00:51 |
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| Umeaboy | 'cause of the difference from the Atom-CPU? | 00:51 |
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| thiago_home | my Atom boots in 12 seconds | 00:52 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. | 00:52 |
| Umeaboy | Do I start counting from the second I click on the power-button to when I'm in or from when I see a picture? | 00:52 |
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| Venemo | Matan[M]: are you Matan from TMO? | 00:55 |
| thiago_home | from the moment you see the boot loader | 00:55 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: can you compile grub with -O3? | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | no idea | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | I haven't compiled grub since it first came out, in the 90s | 00:57 |
| Umeaboy | The bootloader is the process-list, right? | 00:58 |
| Umeaboy | thiago_home: ^^ | 00:58 |
| Umeaboy | Processes that gets started. | 00:58 |
| alterego | optimizing the bootloader wont make startup times noticably quicker ^.^ | 00:58 |
| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/lfs/bootchart-20101002-1525.svg | 00:59 |
| Umeaboy | There should be a script to tell how long time it really takes to boot the system. | 01:01 |
| thiago_home | there can't be | 01:01 |
| Umeaboy | Perhaps a countdown-clock until it's finished. | 01:01 |
| Venemo | hmhm | 01:01 |
| thiago_home | because we're timing from the kernel boot | 01:01 |
| Venemo | what is the status of the policy framework in MeeGo? | 01:01 |
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| Umeaboy | Right. | 01:01 |
| CosmoHill | you can't do a count down, what if you end up with negative numbers? | 01:01 |
| Umeaboy | Then you'll know that your computer or netbook is broken. | 01:02 |
| Umeaboy | ;) | 01:02 |
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| CosmoHill | you have POST > boot loader > kernel (this is where bootchartd starts) | 01:04 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. | 01:04 |
| Umeaboy | Uuuuuuuuhm. | 01:04 |
| CosmoHill | after the kernel you have all the boot scripts and stuff | 01:05 |
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| Umeaboy | I know that Meego is developing all the time, but I wonder.......... Looking in my home-folder I see several directories that is used as the same purpose. | 01:05 |
| Umeaboy | One named in English & the other in Swedish. | 01:05 |
| Umeaboy | How come? | 01:05 |
| Umeaboy | Building -> Byggnader. | 01:06 |
| Umeaboy | Buildings -> Byggnader. | 01:06 |
| CosmoHill | you have both english and swedish directories for the same stuff | 01:06 |
| Umeaboy | I'm talking about duplicates. | 01:06 |
| CosmoHill | is one a link to another? | 01:06 |
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| Umeaboy | I'm checking. | 01:07 |
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| Umeaboy | Nope. Byggnader-directory is empty. | 01:07 |
| Umeaboy | Could it be because of the update that I did? | 01:07 |
| CosmoHill | it could be that some software is hard coded to use a directory that is in english | 01:08 |
| Umeaboy | I'm afraid to delete/remove the Byggnader-directory. | 01:08 |
| Umeaboy | So I'll just leave it. | 01:08 |
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| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: Someone needs to fix the link in the topic. http://meego.com doesn't open. | 01:10 |
| CosmoHill | loaded just fine | 01:10 |
| thiago_home | Umeaboy: yes it does | 01:11 |
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| Umeaboy | In Chromium-browser in Mandriva I get an error. | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | I'm not using chromium, mandriva or even linux, so I can't comment | 01:14 |
| CosmoHill | /* well I can but that's not the point */ | 01:15 |
| Umeaboy | thiago_home: It works in Firefox thou. | 01:16 |
| Umeaboy | I'll test in Epiphany as well. | 01:16 |
| berndhs | isn't it just text that is linkified by the chat client ? | 01:16 |
| Umeaboy | It works fine in Epiphany as well. | 01:17 |
| Umeaboy | I'll test in Opera to. | 01:17 |
| thiago_home | it's your internet connection | 01:17 |
| thiago_home | the site is up | 01:17 |
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| Umeaboy | Nope. | 01:17 |
| Umeaboy | I told you. | 01:17 |
| Umeaboy | It works in Firefox. | 01:17 |
| thiago_home | ok | 01:17 |
| Umeaboy | And Epiphany. | 01:17 |
| thiago_home | and konqueror | 01:17 |
| Umeaboy | thiago_home: Lets' talk about my issue in #mandriva | 01:18 |
| Umeaboy | Lets | 01:18 |
| thiago_home | not really | 01:18 |
| thiago_home | not interested in chromium... | 01:19 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. I was hoping you could confirm the error. | 01:19 |
| thiago_home | I can't. No chromium. | 01:19 |
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| alterego | Does the gps backend in meego have the ability to tether with a bluetooth gps dongle? | 01:20 |
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| Venemo | alterego: not yet. (unless you port your stuff from Columbus to MeeGo :P) | 01:21 |
| alterego | Venemo: that's what I'm doing, but I would have thought there was already infra in place to handle serial NMEA comms .. | 01:22 |
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| alterego | Which would make my job easier as that stuff should already be in Mobility ... | 01:22 |
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| Venemo | alterego: I have no idea, sorry | 01:22 |
| alterego | Otherwise I'm going to have to write my own nmea parser. | 01:22 |
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| alterego | Well, got the main engine and support libs compiled for meego, tomorrow looks like I'll be porting the UI :) | 01:34 |
| alterego | Then hack in support for external GPS | 01:34 |
| alterego | All set for the demo on Wednesday :x | 01:35 |
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| Umeaboy | thiago_home: Where do I translate Meego? | 01:35 |
| Umeaboy | svn.meego.com ? | 01:35 |
| CosmoHill | Umeaboy: I think I saw something on the wiki about localisation | 01:35 |
| thiago_home | I don't remember | 01:36 |
| thiago_home | and MeeGo doesn't use svn | 01:36 |
| Umeaboy | Oooooh. | 01:36 |
| alterego | Anyhow, bedtime, g'night folks. | 01:36 |
| Umeaboy | Good night. | 01:37 |
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| Umeaboy | I've applied for the proper mailinglist. | 01:37 |
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| Rower85 | anyone know what the releasename will be on the first MeeGo device? | 01:38 |
| thiago_home | whose first MeeGo device? | 01:39 |
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| CosmoHill | mine will be called "yay it works" | 01:41 |
| CosmoHill | or GoMee | 01:42 |
| CosmoHill | (tm) | 01:42 |
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| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: GoMee as in GoMeez? ;) | 01:46 |
| Umeaboy | No offence. ;) | 01:46 |
| CosmoHill | I'm not sure how that would offend me but I'm gonna look for a way now that you said no offence | 01:46 |
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| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: You know which Gomez I mean? | 01:50 |
| Umeaboy | ;) | 01:51 |
| CosmoHill | no | 01:51 |
| Umeaboy | Gomez Adams. | 01:51 |
| CosmoHill | never heard of him | 01:51 |
| Umeaboy | For the Adams Family. | 01:51 |
| CosmoHill | oh | 01:51 |
| Umeaboy | From | 01:51 |
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| thiago_home | :-) | 01:53 |
| thiago_home | dammit, now I'm singing the Addams Family song | 01:53 |
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| CosmoHill | ah! | 01:54 |
| Umeaboy | Hehehehe | 01:54 |
| CosmoHill | I have Dad's Army in my head :/ | 01:54 |
| Umeaboy | I loved Lurch. | 01:54 |
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| Umeaboy | He's so alike Larry Kubiac (Sorry for the spelling of the last name). | 01:54 |
| Umeaboy | Larry from Parker Lewis. | 01:55 |
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| Umeaboy | ;) | 01:55 |
| Umeaboy | Big guy. | 01:55 |
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| sergiusens | meego netbook doesn't open it either, somehow the link get translated to http://meego.com%20%7C | 02:01 |
| thiago_home | if you type it in the browser? | 02:02 |
| sergiusens | so there's a space and | | 02:03 |
| Umeaboy | That's what I'm talking about. | 02:03 |
| sergiusens | nah... if I type meego.com it works fine | 02:03 |
| Umeaboy | NOW do you believe me? | 02:03 |
| berndhs | Umeaboy: your chat client does it wrong | 02:04 |
| sergiusens | if you look at the topic from empathy (whch may as well be the problem and not chrome/ium) you can see a space and a pipe in the link it renders too | 02:04 |
| thiago_home | there is a space and a pipe | 02:04 |
| sergiusens | of course, this is on a meego netbook | 02:04 |
| thiago_home | but my IRC client doesn't include them in the link | 02:04 |
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| Umeaboy | thiago_home: I'm on the Mandriva-computer & that's where I get this problem. | 02:05 |
| Umeaboy | Haven't tested in the newly installed Meego Netbook. | 02:05 |
| thiago_home | the problem is your IRC client, not your web browser | 02:05 |
| sergiusens | this is 1.1 with patches, no 1.1.90 | 02:05 |
| sergiusens | thiago_home: I'm well aware of that :-) | 02:06 |
| sergiusens | probably a bug for netbook ux | 02:06 |
| Umeaboy | thiago_home: I've been looking in xChat's settings, but noooooooo settings to change browser to use. | 02:06 |
| Umeaboy | It works fine in the Meego notebook. | 02:09 |
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| Umeaboy | thiago_home: Do you have any problem playing any Youtube-video in FullScreen-mode? | 02:16 |
| thiago_home | yes | 02:16 |
| thiago_home | whenever my Mandriva laptop is running with TwinView (NVidia card) | 02:17 |
| Umeaboy | Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhm. Do I install the RPM for Java when it comes to use it in Chrome(ium) ? | 02:17 |
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| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: I think I froze my Meego-PC now. ;( | 02:28 |
| CosmoHill | what did you do? | 02:29 |
| Umeaboy | I opened Terminal/Console & typed ls. | 02:29 |
| Umeaboy | Nothing happens. | 02:29 |
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| Umeaboy | Unless it has a lot to display. | 02:29 |
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| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: Isn't java-1.6.0-openjdk installed in Meego by default? | 02:32 |
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| CosmoHill | no idea | 02:32 |
| smoku | pheew... for a second I envisioned a Meego-PC in a fridge | 02:34 |
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| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: When reporting this, what do I type in the field for USER IMPACT ? | 02:46 |
| Umeaboy | How it affects me? | 02:47 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 02:47 |
| CosmoHill | for example if the email client was broken the user impact would be "user can't access email" | 02:47 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: ping | 02:49 |
| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: EXTRA SOFTWARE INSTALLED ? | 02:50 |
| Umeaboy | Huh? | 02:50 |
| Umeaboy | I don't think I have any extra software installed. | 02:51 |
| Umeaboy | Thou the update-process I did might've installed some. | 02:51 |
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| Umeaboy | Talk to sergiusens, olorin_. | 02:54 |
| CosmoHill | Umeaboy: "none" ? | 02:54 |
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| MeegoBoy | Evenin' meego folk, whatz up? | 02:55 |
| Umeaboy | CosmoHill: None I guess. | 02:55 |
| MeegoBoy | No meego device until quarter 4....care to comment anybody? | 02:56 |
| Umeaboy | http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13128 | 02:56 |
| MeegoBoy | N9 cancelled | 02:57 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: of course, those are rumours | 02:58 |
| thiago_home | unsubstantiated | 02:58 |
| thiago_home | no comments on rumours | 02:58 |
| MeegoBoy | I was speaking to some of my old friends at nokia, they are all confused | 02:59 |
| thiago_home | I'm not | 02:59 |
| MeegoBoy | Elop is furious at the slow rate of meego progress | 02:59 |
| thiago_home | maybe he is | 03:00 |
| MeegoBoy | Heads are on the line.... | 03:00 |
| thiago_home | maybe | 03:00 |
| MeegoBoy | Thats why elop brought the skillman guy from palm | 03:00 |
| thiago_home | eh... no | 03:00 |
| MeegoBoy | No? | 03:00 |
| thiago_home | skillman is a head designer | 03:00 |
| thiago_home | he has nothing to do with getting things done | 03:01 |
| MeegoBoy | Yes but elop told skillman to make sure meego people dont fuck up | 03:01 |
| thiago_home | in the design | 03:01 |
| thiago_home | not in the software delivery | 03:01 |
| MeegoBoy | Skillman is a UI guy right? | 03:01 |
| thiago_home | yes | 03:01 |
| MeegoBoy | Exactly | 03:02 |
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| thiago_home | so unless the problem is that the UI isn't done, he has no part in the delays or getting them fixed | 03:02 |
| MeegoBoy | Elop is determined to downplay symbian and make it for low end devices, he told skillman to take care of meego | 03:02 |
| thiago_home | skillman is the head meego designer | 03:03 |
| MeegoBoy | Right | 03:03 |
| MeegoBoy | Funny thing is elop has a personal hate for open source....curious how this is gonna play out | 03:03 |
| thiago_home | never talked to elop personally, so I don't know his mind | 03:04 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: "elop has a personal hate for open source" -> where did you get that from? | 03:04 |
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| MeegoBoy | Venemo: back from his MS days | 03:04 |
| Umeaboy | sergiusens: Can you add a comment to my bug to tell people you've seen this to? | 03:04 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: I don't think so. | 03:05 |
| thiago_home | however, considering that meego is open source, symbian is open source, qt is open source and I'm being allowed to continue pushing for Qt open governance, even if he hates open source, he doesn't let his feeling get mixed with business | 03:05 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: elop has take symbian back to nokia to make it less open...trust me....inside information my friend | 03:05 |
| thiago_home | and of course, you're wrong | 03:06 |
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| Venemo | haha! I've heard so much "inside information", and none of it did come true! haha! | 03:06 |
| thiago_home | symbian is still open source. It's just not in the foundation anymore. | 03:06 |
| MeegoBoy | He made public comments during his MS days about his dislike for open source | 03:06 |
| thiago_home | the reason it disappeared was that the foundation ran out of money before nokia could set up the hosting | 03:06 |
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| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: do you have a link? | 03:06 |
| MeegoBoy | I will find it | 03:07 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: "made public comments during his MS days about his dislike for open source" -> that's what people are paid for at MS. | 03:07 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: even if it's not their honest opinion | 03:07 |
| MeegoBoy | True I guess | 03:07 |
| Venemo | I'm not trying to protect Elop - I'm saying that judging someone by his career at his previous workplace is not right. | 03:07 |
| MeegoBoy | On feb 11 Nothing will be announced ...just empty talk from elop | 03:08 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: let's see what he does and how, and then we can make an opinion about him. | 03:08 |
| olorin_ | thiago_home: I'm pretty sure I have this mate who endorses both Symbian and MeeGo. | 03:08 |
| MeegoBoy | Dont get me wrong...i like elop...very intelligent man | 03:09 |
| thiago_home | otherwise he wouldn't have been hired | 03:10 |
| MeegoBoy | But why is meego progress moving at turtle's pace? That what elop is starting to ask | 03:10 |
| thiago_home | can't tell you | 03:11 |
| thiago_home | there are obviously good reasons | 03:11 |
| MeegoBoy | Such as? | 03:11 |
| thiago_home | what part of "can't tell you" didn't you understand? | 03:11 |
| MeegoBoy | I've been hearing its because quite frankly its crap at the stage its at now | 03:12 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:12 |
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| * thiago_home knows from experience that it's hard enough to make a quality release of one software | 03:13 | |
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| thiago_home | imagine something as complex as a meego device | 03:13 |
| MeegoBoy | Elop is searcing for new OS ... Meego aint cutting it | 03:13 |
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| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: care to point to a link on nokia.com for that info? | 03:13 |
| * ljp gets some popcorn | 03:14 | |
| MeegoBoy | You joking??? This is classified information not meant for Joe Public | 03:14 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: then it's at best rumours and speculations | 03:14 |
| thiago_home | at worst, you're spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) | 03:14 |
| MeegoBoy | Nokia.com is a marketing front | 03:14 |
| * ljp gets back to meego development | 03:15 | |
| olorin_ | When does Bildenberger come in? | 03:15 |
| MeegoBoy | You think theyre gonna start posting inside information on nokia.com and jeopardize sales??? | 03:15 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: of course not | 03:15 |
| MeegoBoy | Right | 03:15 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: which makes your line just speculation | 03:15 |
| thiago_home | and I'll ask you to refrain from doing that | 03:15 |
| thiago_home | you can't substantiate your claims | 03:16 |
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| MeegoBoy | Ok but...thought this was an open source community willing to discuss freely, is not ???? | 03:16 |
| thiago_home | we can discuss freely | 03:16 |
| thiago_home | well, not we | 03:16 |
| thiago_home | I can't | 03:16 |
| thiago_home | because I know stuff | 03:16 |
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| olorin_ | Nokia company policies etc. | 03:17 |
| thiago_home | what I'm trying to do is make sure you understand what's speculation and what's fact | 03:17 |
| thiago_home | and especially be clear when you say so | 03:17 |
| thiago_home | I know what parts of what you say are complete nonsense and which ones have some reality to it. Most people in this channel don't. | 03:17 |
| thiago_home | so they will get disinformation from you, unless you clearly say what's speculation and what's fact. | 03:17 |
| MeegoBoy | I also DO have friends working at nokia and they are positioned in the higher levels, i am not talking about coders here fresh out of college | 03:17 |
| thiago_home | maybe you do and maybe your friends know something I don't | 03:18 |
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| thiago_home | but the point is that we simply cannot verify your claims | 03:18 |
| MeegoBoy | Cant we speculate a bit ??? Whats the harm mate? | 03:18 |
| thiago_home | you can. Just say that it's speculation. | 03:18 |
| thiago_home | don't present it as fact. | 03:18 |
| thiago_home | "Elop is searcing for new OS ... Meego aint cutting it" <--- sounds like fact | 03:19 |
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| thiago_home | "I think Elop is searcing for new OS ... Meego aint cutting it" <--- sounds like opinion | 03:19 |
| olorin_ | Sounds like FUD to me. | 03:19 |
| MeegoBoy | It aint FUD.... elop is not pleased....trust me | 03:19 |
| thiago_home | I don't need to trust you | 03:20 |
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| thiago_home | I know what I know | 03:20 |
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| thiago_home | I'm not going to get information about the company I work for on IRC | 03:20 |
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| MeegoBoy | I ask you dear people: why would I come to this channel to post unsubstantiated nonsense? | 03:20 |
| thiago_home | because people do that | 03:21 |
| thiago_home | I don't know why, but they do | 03:21 |
| MeegoBoy | I dont | 03:21 |
| thiago_home | why do people come to IRC channels to flood and do other nasty stuff? | 03:21 |
| thiago_home | don't they have a life? | 03:21 |
| MeegoBoy | I used to be an enginner at nokia and i still have friends there.... I care about nokia | 03:21 |
| thiago_home | but they come and do it. So I don't know what your intentions are. | 03:21 |
| MeegoBoy | My intentions??? I wanna discuss... Thought thats what irc channels are for, are they not? | 03:22 |
| thiago_home | yes | 03:22 |
| MeegoBoy | And? | 03:23 |
| thiago_home | and what? | 03:23 |
| Venemo | lol at you | 03:23 |
| MeegoBoy | Why is this community so god damned anal? Pardon my expression. Do you folk have some unresolved insecurities? | 03:24 |
| thiago_home | I personally do this whenever I hear rumours being discussed as facts. | 03:24 |
| thiago_home | I care about the company | 03:24 |
| thiago_home | and rumours damage the company, so I'll do what I can to stop them. | 03:24 |
| MeegoBoy | Ok....fair game... Lets talk about the "rumors" then | 03:25 |
| thiago_home | you can talk about them. I can't. | 03:25 |
| ShadowJK | I don't work for Nokia, and I don't work for any company that works for Nokia, and I also hate these rumours being presented as facts | 03:25 |
| ljp | I'll talk about Rumors, I really liked that Fleetwood Mac album | 03:25 |
| Venemo | ShadowJK++ | 03:25 |
| MeegoBoy | Fair.... I respect that... When i was at nokia i was the same | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | They are fun entertainment sometimes, especially the "N9 specifications" subject, but mostly because of the absurd things some people believe :-) | 03:27 |
| olorin_ | I thought this was the MeeGo channel, not the Nokia channel? | 03:27 |
| MeegoBoy | I also believe in freedom of speech and transparency.... Obviously some in this channel are corporate puppets | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | That too :) | 03:27 |
| MeegoBoy | N9 is cancelled | 03:28 |
| ShadowJK | MeeGoBot, since I don't get paid by any corporation, I'll say it: stfu and go do something productive instead | 03:28 |
| MeeGoBot | ShadowJK: Sorry, I've no idea what 'since I don't get paid by any corporation, I'll say it: stfu and go do something productive instead' might be. | 03:28 |
| ShadowJK | Eh, I mean MeegoBoy :P | 03:28 |
| MeegoBoy | Wow nice language folks.... I am impressed | 03:29 |
| * ljp chokes on his popcorn | 03:29 | |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: do you see why no one wants to discuss with you? | 03:29 |
| thiago_home | you come and say "N9 is cancelled" | 03:29 |
| MeegoBoy | So? | 03:29 |
| MeegoBoy | It is | 03:30 |
| thiago_home | it sounds like "go home, your project is over, nothing to do more in this channel" | 03:30 |
| MeegoBoy | No | 03:30 |
| thiago_home | well, that's again presenting rumour as fact | 03:30 |
| thiago_home | and in this case, it's FUD as fact | 03:30 |
| thiago_home | real FUD | 03:30 |
| MeegoBoy | There will be a meego device....just not 9 | 03:30 |
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| MeegoBoy | not n9 | 03:30 |
| thiago_home | there was never a device announced under the name N9 | 03:30 |
| thiago_home | the entire name N9 is a rumour | 03:30 |
| ShadowJK | Since they don't give devices their names before launch, saying "N9 is cancelled" is kinda meaningless. N9 is just what people guessed the next maemo/meego line of device would be called, and I suspect it will still be called something like that, regardless of how many prototype iterations they go through :P | 03:31 |
| thiago_home | I thought the N900 was going to be called N820 | 03:31 |
| MeegoBoy | screw announced....thats just marketign garbage for joe public | 03:31 |
| lcuk | if I scratch the 00 off my Nokia handset, I have an N9 :) | 03:31 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I can do the same to my old N95 | 03:32 |
| lcuk | :D indeed! | 03:32 |
| lcuk | so how can it be cancelled? | 03:32 |
| ShadowJK | I for one would like to know the story of RX-71 :) | 03:32 |
| * ljp wants to know who controls his puppet strings, cause they are all tangled up | 03:33 | |
| MeegoBoy | May i ask you folks? I tought i could come in here and discuss some rumors, some facts, some speculation about a project and company i care deeply about. What harm is there in that? | 03:33 |
| thiago_home | ShadowJK: some day, over beer | 03:33 |
| olorin_ | ljp: That would be me. | 03:33 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: you're welcome to do that. But you're not doing it. | 03:33 |
| ljp | MeegoBoy: some of us work for Nokia, so we cannot discuss these things | 03:33 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, 2 things: come back with a sensible alias and real name linked to it, and come back when more Finns are awake, its 3am in Finland right now | 03:33 |
| ljp | olorin_: then cut me loose, I need new strings :) | 03:34 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: no point. Finns won't discuss it. | 03:34 |
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| MeegoBoy | Thiago: i am not interested in talking about information available to joe public.... | 03:34 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: okay, so you think that N9 is cancelled. would you care to tell us why? | 03:34 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: and I'm not interested in commenting on anything that is not officially announced. | 03:34 |
| ShadowJK | MeegoBoy, well, nokia employees aren't stupid enough (I'd hope) to reveal classified information in a public IRC channel :P | 03:35 |
| olorin_ | ljp: Nah. | 03:35 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo : because elop is not happy with the state of meego.....furious in fact he is | 03:35 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: but again: my point is that you're trolling, spreading FUD, presenting speculation as fact. | 03:35 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: this is getting funny. please elaborate | 03:36 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: n9 has been cancelled/delayed due to slow progress of meego development.... When i say n9 i mean the meego device from nokia | 03:37 |
| MeegoBoy | Maybe n901, maybe something else....dont know | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | My guess is that there have been two or 3 devices already that have not reached production :) | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | but that's just my guess | 03:37 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: well then it seems that you are less educated than the average people around here | 03:38 |
| MeegoBoy | I am talking about n900 successor here | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | MeegoBoy, yes. | 03:38 |
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| Venemo | MeegoBoy: N900 successor won't run MeeGo. | 03:38 |
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| Venemo | MeegoBoy: N900 successor will run Maemo 6 (which will probably be released under some marketing name that resembles MeeGo more) | 03:39 |
| olorin_ | Notice the "maybe". | 03:39 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if this harmattan is becoming more meego :) | 03:39 |
| Venemo | hehe :) | 03:39 |
| Umeaboy | Gotta go. Take care. | 03:40 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: also it's been said (on TMO) that it'll be released at approx. q3 or q4 2011. so there's plenty of time until then. | 03:40 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: you should read TMO. it's all there | 03:40 |
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| Umeaboy | Anyone is free to confirm my "bug" when they see it. | 03:40 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: wrong. Maemo is dead | 03:40 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: again you are wrong. | 03:40 |
| thiago_home | maemo is dead. long live maemo. | 03:40 |
| thiago_home | :-) | 03:41 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: well maemo is alive as a community hobby project, inside nokia its dead | 03:41 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: it's codenamed Harmattan and it's in the works. | 03:41 |
| Umeaboy | Also see if you can get Meego to freeze when you open Terminal & as normal user type ls & press Enter/Return/Execute-button. | 03:41 |
| Umeaboy | I think mine froze. | 03:41 |
| Umeaboy | And I did nothing with it except updating it. | 03:42 |
| thiago_home | ljp: pass some popcorn, please | 03:42 |
| * Umeaboy is going now. | 03:42 | |
| * Umeaboy has left the building! | 03:42 | |
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| * ljp throws some hot buttered popcorn north | 03:42 | |
| olorin_ | thiago_home: Bring it up here will you? | 03:42 |
| ShadowJK | Speculation: it was speculated that the next omap3 device would've come out in Q4 2010, but then the MeeGo merger thing happened.. I'm guessing that pushed the timeframe so far ahead that they decided to move to omap4 instead.. I would think that an omap3 device in Q4 2010 or Q1 2011 would definitely have been Maemo6/Harmattan "MeeGo Instance", but now I'm not sure if it'd be Harmattan anymore if it's an Omap4 N9 in Q4 2011 :P | 03:42 |
| MeegoBoy | Nonsense....why would nokia support 4 OSes??? Maemo, meego, s40, symbian....financial suicide | 03:43 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: they supported more than that in the past | 03:43 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: don't forget s30 | 03:43 |
| olorin_ | Err, S40 _is Symbian_. | 03:43 |
| ShadowJK | olorin_, no it's not | 03:43 |
| Venemo | olorin_: ni | 03:43 |
| thiago_home | olorin_: no. S40 is not Symbian. | 03:43 |
| ShadowJK | you're thinking of s60 | 03:43 |
| Venemo | olorin_: no | 03:43 |
| thiago_home | S60 was Symbian. | 03:43 |
| olorin_ | Aw, me misinformed then. | 03:43 |
| MeegoBoy | No....i know for a fact that maemo is dead | 03:44 |
| ShadowJK | thiago_home, I like your use of past tense :) | 03:44 |
| MeegoBoy | Focus is on meego | 03:44 |
| ShadowJK | MeegoBoy, so since you're so full of facts, is Harmattan canceled too? | 03:44 |
| MeegoBoy | No.... But isnt harmattan meego? | 03:45 |
| lcuk | oh screw all this nonsense about computers, MeegoBoy is paris hilton getting married? | 03:45 |
| ShadowJK | No it's not :) | 03:45 |
| lcuk | since the chan seems to have turned into tmz | 03:45 |
| ShadowJK | Or atleast it wasn't going to be | 03:45 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529073&postcount=14 for some info from qgil | 03:45 |
| Venemo | lcuk++ | 03:45 |
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| MeegoBoy | Correct. Harmattan is a minor project inside nokia.... An afterthought really....trust me elop doesnt think harmattan is an iphone killer he has in mind | 03:46 |
| olorin_ | Does this thing run in a vm, and anyone with a image? | 03:46 |
| thiago_home | Venemo: has the name after Harmattan been announced? | 03:47 |
| Venemo | thiago_home: no. | 03:47 |
| Venemo | thiago_home: at least not that I know of. but honestly, I couldn't care less. | 03:47 |
| ShadowJK | I guess it'd be something starting with I, if they find a suitable wind called something with I | 03:48 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 03:48 |
| Venemo | ShadowJK: :D | 03:48 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, actually yes | 03:49 |
| lcuk | http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129 | 03:49 |
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| lcuk | at least candidate listings | 03:49 |
| ShadowJK | I like inverna :) | 03:49 |
| thiago_home | two candidates only | 03:49 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, what were you doing 2 years ago? | 03:50 |
| lcuk | (when that post was made) | 03:50 |
| ShadowJK | Ilmatar actually shows up in gitorious ;P | 03:50 |
| thiago_home | the RX-71 multitouch code | 03:51 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, I am more shocked you managed to use gitorious search | 03:51 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, actually google found it | 03:51 |
| ShadowJK | gitorious search doesn't seem to, and the page I ended up at after clicking link on google seemed compeltely different compared to google's preview | 03:52 |
| olorin_ | Cloning and find is easier... | 03:52 |
| lcuk | olorin_, that assumes you know the project you need | 03:52 |
| ShadowJK | MeegoBoy, hey will the next device have gyros then? | 03:53 |
| MeegoBoy | Lol...lol.... Why the hell are you people linking to what qgil said a year ago???? Who cares????!!!! The man is a nokia employee | 03:53 |
| * lcuk has had trouble digging into many areas to find out whether something is feasible | 03:53 | |
| olorin_ | lcuk: Well, yes. | 03:53 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, someone asked whether a name existed, it was requested publicly a while ago *shrug* | 03:54 |
| lcuk | sometimes, we verify things we say with real links | 03:54 |
| olorin_ | ShadowJK: I'm pretty sure it will have a nuclear powerplant instead of a battery. | 03:54 |
| lcuk | no matter how old they might be, its something you should try. | 03:54 |
| ShadowJK | olorin_, nokia showed a methane fuel cell prototype 7 years ago or so :) | 03:54 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: lol, lol. why the hell you think we care what _you_ say? | 03:55 |
| ShadowJK | I hope they can make it run on ethanol or something more readily available :D | 03:55 |
| lcuk | VODKA powered is the future. | 03:55 |
| lcuk | or running on pure Guinness | 03:55 |
| ShadowJK | guinness is a bit weak and would clog up the tubing I'd think | 03:55 |
| MeegoBoy | Im my 20 some years in computer engineering i have never met as cynical and negative bunch as this | 03:55 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, but it has a full head | 03:55 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: we just don't trust you on what you say | 03:55 |
| olorin_ | ShadowJK: People have worked fiercly on that here in Norway too. | 03:55 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: we don't know you, we don't know your credentials. Some of us can also poke holes through some of your "trust me" things. | 03:56 |
| jonnor | MeegoBoy: were you in the marketing department? ;D | 03:56 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, actually its wider | 03:56 |
| lcuk | people should not trust irc ever | 03:56 |
| lcuk | its one of the first computing things | 03:56 |
| lcuk | never blindly believe what someone says on the internet | 03:56 |
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| lcuk | verify, backup, factcheck, publish. | 03:57 |
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| * lcuk is at stage 3.5 | 03:57 | |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: this is what depicts the situation best: http://i53.tinypic.com/a1hk05.jpg | 03:57 |
| MeegoBoy | Let me ask you a question then: what is the current status/progress of meego. Pray tell folks. | 03:57 |
| thiago_home | meego 1.2 is now feature-frozen | 03:58 |
| MeegoBoy | Feature frozen? | 03:58 |
| thiago_home | release will be in end of april / beginning of may | 03:58 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2 | 03:58 |
| thiago_home | there are no announced or confirmed devices for meego 1.2 | 03:58 |
| Venemo | yet. | 03:58 |
| MeegoBoy | Why no devices? | 03:58 |
| thiago_home | because no devices have been announced to run meego 1.2 | 03:59 |
| MeegoBoy | Why? | 03:59 |
| thiago_home | because no devices have been announced to run meego 1.2 | 03:59 |
| thiago_home | search the internet | 03:59 |
| thiago_home | see if you find any announcements | 03:59 |
| MeegoBoy | Lol....a little cynical today arent we? | 03:59 |
| thiago_home | come back when you have read every page on the internet and confirmed no devices were announced. | 03:59 |
| lcuk | every page on the internet! | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | heh :) | 04:00 |
| lcuk | that will get caught in an infinite loop then | 04:00 |
| lcuk | since this channel is on the internet | 04:00 |
| thiago_home | only if he creates pages while searching | 04:00 |
| MeegoBoy | Lcuk: i seem to remember you.... Mms project for n900 correct? | 04:00 |
| jonwil | hmmm, damn, my phone repair now says "Your job is awaiting delivery of your replacement Nokia handset" | 04:00 |
| odin_ | hey there are plenty of Chinese devices announcing MeeGo support, they are good fellows! gotta buy a pallet at a time though, and no refunds! | 04:01 |
| jonwil | Sounds like Nokia are going to replace it rather than repair it | 04:01 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: bad guess | 04:01 |
| thiago_home | odin_: while I know of chinese rumours, I haven't seen any announcements. Do you know more? | 04:01 |
| ShadowJK | When I bought my second N900, the salesman assured me his brother works for Nokia and is the head of the MeeGo team, when I pressed him for a name, he said "a head" of "a meego team", and then said he gets alot of secret information from him. I said "eh, meego is pretty open you know", and he said "I mean the prototypes, they're all awesome, I've seen them!". I didn't belive him :P | 04:01 |
| lcuk | odin_, any shiny ones? | 04:02 |
| ShadowJK | jonwil, what was wrong with it? | 04:02 |
| MeegoBoy | What does meego have to offer thats better than android and/or ios ? That was the question elop has asked. | 04:02 |
| jonwil | the indicator LED was broken | 04:02 |
| thiago_home | better software, more open community, more open development process | 04:02 |
| jonwil | and not lighting up | 04:02 |
| thiago_home | ios isn't available for nokia | 04:02 |
| thiago_home | android puts nokia under google's thumb | 04:03 |
| jonwil | also the front camera wasnt working | 04:03 |
| odin_ | I am j/k, the product fact pages (if you trawl) claim devices they make support everything, no - no shiny ones, I suspect just a factories trying to sell something | 04:03 |
| jonwil | people on here suggested the cable linking the screen to the body of the phone was faulty | 04:03 |
| ShadowJK | jonwil, was microsd working? | 04:03 |
| jonwil | yes microsd was working | 04:03 |
| jonwil | when I backed up | 04:03 |
| MeegoBoy | N900 was a slow and clunky piece of utter rubbish... Mine is collecting dust right now | 04:04 |
| thiago_home | best phone ever | 04:04 |
| thiago_home | (from nokia) | 04:04 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: interestingly, my N900 is neither slow nor clunky. | 04:04 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: I must be doing something wrong then? | 04:04 |
| jonwil | I like my N900, its the most open phone available from any manufacturer | 04:04 |
| olorin_ | thiago_home: 1.2 in git? | 04:04 |
| ShadowJK | WHen my first one broke I bought a second one because I couldn't stand being without it for the duration of repair for the first one... and there was no better phone availabe yet. This was 2 weeks ago :P | 04:04 |
| thiago_home | olorin_: it should be | 04:05 |
| jonwil | unless you count experiements like OpenMoko | 04:05 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: i respectfully disagree.... Its a total disaster and a king of clunkiness | 04:05 |
| lcuk | I will chip in here, my n900 has been doing things I didn't think were possible just this weekend :) | 04:05 |
| jonwil | which are useless as an actual phone | 04:05 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: what do you mean? | 04:05 |
| Venemo | lcuk: what are them? :) | 04:05 |
| thiago_home | I think he means the physical dimensions | 04:05 |
| thiago_home | yes, it's thick | 04:05 |
| ShadowJK | N900 is the first phone I've had that has been able to read my email :P | 04:05 |
| thiago_home | my C7 is a lot thinner and shinier. But I prefer the N900. | 04:05 |
| MeegoBoy | Lcuk: utter nonsense...just because it CAN do it, does not mean its doing it GOOD....no? | 04:06 |
| olorin_ | So is the SE X10 mini with a keyboard. | 04:06 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: for example? | 04:06 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, you don't know what it was doing though :) | 04:06 |
| jonwil | MeeGo-on-n900 is even more open than Maemo is (which is good) and there are efforts to replace or offer alternatives to various of the still-closed packages in the non-oss repo | 04:06 |
| odin_ | Re: Chinese product claiming MeeGo: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=meego&Country=&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=y | 04:06 |
| Venemo | thiago_home: no, he said 'slow', which is a lie. | 04:06 |
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| thiago_home | well, there's only so much a 600 MHz OMAP3 can do | 04:07 |
| thiago_home | but when it came out, that was top of the line | 04:07 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: mapping... Email... The only somewhat acceptable thing on n900 is the browser... The rest is dogs breakfast | 04:07 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: why is that? | 04:07 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, I was using my n810 the other day | 04:07 |
| lcuk | and still enjoyed its performance | 04:07 |
| lcuk | :) | 04:07 |
| lcuk | infact moreso because original liqbase is there | 04:07 |
| ShadowJK | I find the RAM and IO more limiting than the CPU.. Adding a MicroSDHC and moving some IO pressure to that improved responsiveness alot for me | 04:07 |
| MeegoBoy | Poking things with a stylus is an utter disaster in 2011 | 04:08 |
| thiago_home | MeegoBoy: which is why the device was launched in 2009 | 04:08 |
| thiago_home | and don't forget that there are many demographics where a stylus is very useful | 04:09 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, but writing with your fingers is a nightmare too | 04:09 |
| lcuk | i grew up and stopped finger painting | 04:09 |
| MeegoBoy | Thiago: yest and then abandoned after 6 months | 04:09 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: I rarely use a stylus, but on those rare occasions I use it, I found it very useful. | 04:09 |
| ShadowJK | I use it when playing widelands :) | 04:10 |
| lcuk | anyway, i am going back to slumber | 04:10 |
| lcuk | gnite chaps n trolls \o | 04:10 |
| olorin_ | ShadowJK: :-p | 04:10 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: anyway, did you come here only to play a flamewar with us or do you have some better purpose? | 04:10 |
| ShadowJK | And when copy-pasting stuff it's nicer because my finger isn't obscuring the text as much :P | 04:10 |
| MeegoBoy | I used the stylus to scratch the inside of my ear.... Its nonsense to have a stylus in todays day and age | 04:11 |
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| ShadowJK | Why is it nonsense? | 04:11 |
| MeegoBoy | Its not intuitive | 04:12 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: why not? | 04:12 |
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| MeegoBoy | Because its counterintuitive | 04:12 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: lol | 04:12 |
| ShadowJK | What makes it counterintuitive? | 04:12 |
| MeegoBoy | Having to p | 04:12 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: so how would you select small links on a webpage without a stylus? | 04:13 |
| MeegoBoy | Having to pull the damn thing out to poke at a screen | 04:13 |
| olorin_ | Err, how do you draw or hand write without? | 04:13 |
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| MeegoBoy | By using a finger like a civilized os would do | 04:13 |
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| ShadowJK | olorin_, you zoom in to get the precision with finger, then you zoom out for overview, and soom in on the second place | 04:13 |
| olorin_ | ShadowJK: That is counterintutive. | 04:14 |
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| MeegoBoy | The biggest myth of stylus lovers: "stykus | 04:14 |
| ShadowJK | Whereas with a narrower finger or stylus you can stay zoomed out and see the entire overview of the points of interest at once | 04:14 |
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| ShadowJK | You can do it both ways on Maemo | 04:15 |
| MeegoBoy | The biggest myth of stylus lovers: " stylus is more accurate" ....utter bullcrap unsupported by facts....nonsense | 04:15 |
| olorin_ | ShadowJK: Which mean I would have to be a fetus. | 04:15 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: seriously, why don't you go and bugger off? | 04:15 |
| MeegoBoy | Venemo: lighten up mate | 04:15 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: I'm bored of you | 04:15 |
| ShadowJK | MeegoBoy, so what makes stylus less accurate? | 04:16 |
| Venemo | MeegoBoy: you are a typical troll. you don't have anything original, you just whine about those things that people were whining about for years. | 04:16 |
| MeegoBoy | ShadowJK: i didnt say stylus is less accurate...it counterintuitive | 04:16 |
| MeegoBoy | Resistive screens are a disaster.... A blunder on nokias part | 04:17 |
| * lcuk looks at a Renoir painting and wonders if he used his finger | 04:17 | |
| ShadowJK | A trackball would be cool | 04:17 |
| olorin_ | lcuk: Neither did Munch. | 04:18 |
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| MeegoBoy | After 20 some years in computer and mobile engineering it boggles my mind that a resistive screens are still produced | 04:19 |
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| olorin_ | MeegoBoy: 20 years? Why didn't you chose a more mature nick then? | 04:20 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, since you have finger on the pulse then, which screen technology do you think we need? | 04:20 |
| MeegoBoy | Sometimes i need to stoop down to the level of my audience....mingle with the common folk.... | 04:20 |
| * lcuk would personally like resistive multitouch like the Statums | 04:21 | |
| * ShadowJK 'd like RGB | 04:21 | |
| odin_ | lcuk, wide-screen, yay! | 04:21 |
| lcuk | i think it doesnt matter the tech though | 04:21 |
| lcuk | same software works on both | 04:21 |
| ShadowJK | and not RGBGRG | 04:21 |
| lcuk | badly written software is bad no matter what | 04:21 |
| lcuk | it does get shown by stylus requirement tho | 04:21 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, ahh you mean pentile lower resolution stuff? | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 04:22 |
| * lcuk remembers being laughed at for making liqbase use half resolution color channels | 04:22 | |
| ShadowJK | The stuff that makes photos pretty but text crap | 04:22 |
| lcuk | then I laughed when the latest hardware did it embedded | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | Well atleast you still have full resolution for white/grey/black :) | 04:22 |
| lcuk | yup | 04:23 |
| lcuk | crystal clear strokes with my STYLUS | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if they'll give up with this amoled madness soon, supply constrained isn't nice place to be :P | 04:24 |
| MeegoBoy | Styluses are for 1990s | 04:24 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, depends on the use, handwriting is something non western countries need more than Western | 04:24 |
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| MeegoBoy | Lcuk: just as easy with the finger | 04:25 |
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| ShadowJK | You could still draw screen-sized glyphs with your finger, I guess. writing paragraphs and seeing only one letter at a time is probably painful, though :) | 04:25 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, on my 10 inch capacitive, I get about the same writing definition as my 3.5inch resistive | 04:26 |
| lcuk | i have to write using chalkboard size letters | 04:26 |
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| MeegoBoy | Lcuk: not true | 04:26 |
| lcuk | if I try writing with my finger as if I were holding a pen or stylus it does not work | 04:26 |
| lcuk | absofuckinglutely true, you are asking the wrong person | 04:27 |
| ShadowJK | Ever seen girls trying to use capacitive screens? I'd call the "intuitive" claim into doubt :P | 04:27 |
| lcuk | lol | 04:28 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, old, resistive tech: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_big.JPG new capacitive: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_big_ideapad.ttt.20110103_003.jpg | 04:29 |
| lcuk | note the amount of detail I get on the n810 in the first picture compared to a similar tile from the ideapad | 04:29 |
| lcuk | and thats the same app on various things, the highest information density came with the x41 which was 10inch and had a digitizing pen thingamibob | 04:30 |
| lcuk | note the meego ideapad is awesome for playing tictactoe on | 04:31 |
| lcuk | capacitive does have its benefits | 04:31 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm guessing information density is slightly lower for N900 than N810? | 04:38 |
| lcuk | yes but not noticably, I have many detailed notes taken on it | 04:38 |
| lcuk | but on the ideapad and even the n900 without stylus | 04:39 |
| lcuk | i can barely note a movie name down with my finger | 04:39 |
| lcuk | at least legibly | 04:39 |
| lcuk | (I whip out and write things to remember) | 04:39 |
| lcuk | lemme upload a recent sketch to highlight this, it was finger only cos stylus was at home | 04:39 |
| MeegoBoy | Lcuk: simply your opinion mate, 1 in a million...sorry | 04:39 |
| lcuk | you were nt sounding like 1 in a million before | 04:40 |
| * lcuk scrolls past a load of random letters for some reason | 04:41 | |
| MeegoBoy | What? | 04:41 |
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| MeegoBoy | I was utterly disappointed in n900 ... A marketing disaster for nokia....a blunder | 04:43 |
| * jonwil wonders why xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx is closed in MeeGo when the matching xserver-xorg-video-fbdev package was not closed in Maemo Fremantle | 04:44 | |
| ShadowJK | -sgx? | 04:44 |
| Alison_Chaiken | lcuk, touching N900 screen with finger is a disaster, but touchscreens on many phones are much easier to use than N900 with stylus. | 04:44 |
| ShadowJK | Before PR1.2 or 1.3 something, if you ran the screen calibration thing the touchscreen stopped working properly :) | 04:46 |
| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, its not a problem of missed touches, its just so imprecise for note taking to use a fat finger | 04:46 |
| lcuk | each letter I write is smaller than the hit area of my fingerpad | 04:46 |
| * lcuk gives up going back to sleep | 04:47 | |
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| Alison_Chaiken | The HTC G1 I have is slightly older than the N900 (which is the only reason I own it). I much, much prefer its capacitive touchscreen with my finger to the N900 with stylus. The N900 regularly makes me curse out loud, although perhaps that says more about me than about the phone. | 04:48 |
| lcuk | i dont use my stylus for naviation and stuff | 04:48 |
| lcuk | and only get it out to write | 04:48 |
| * lcuk never noticed UI actions being a problem without it | 04:49 | |
| ShadowJK | There's one part of the UI that has elements smaller than a fingerprint, and that's the internet connections advanced settings dialog :P | 04:50 |
| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, where specifically makes you curse on n900? | 04:50 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, thats a complex dialog indeed! | 04:50 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | lcuk, even with the stylus I can't scroll selection menus on the N900 without accidentally highlighting some choices unintentionally. I often go to windows I don't intend and have to go back. It drives me nuts. I can't wait to get rid of the resistive touchscreen. | 04:51 |
| MeegoBoy | Lcuk: there you go " get it out" you said it yourself...the biggest failure with a stylus is that its counterintuitive and you have to get the damn thig out....fail | 04:52 |
| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, touch selection cursing is a common issue | 04:52 |
| Alison_Chaiken | BTW, the ExoPC and WeTab work great with finger, assuming you can get the hid_egalax driver installed properly! | 04:52 |
| lcuk | MeegoBoy, if I want to write a letter, I have to get a pen out | 04:53 |
| Alison_Chaiken | MeeGoBoy, the biggest problem with the stylus is that even with it, the touchscreen is difficult to use! | 04:53 |
| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, thats a different issue | 04:53 |
| Alison_Chaiken | lcuk, put those pens away and try switching to email. You'll be glad you did. | 04:53 |
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| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, :) | 04:54 |
| lcuk | ask me again next week. | 04:54 |
| lcuk | i might have a compromise | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | One issue I have is that the distance from the touch layer to the display layer is kinda big, so the touch point on the screen looks to be in a different position depending on the angle you view it at, even if the touch point on the touch display itself was entirely accurate (which, if not accurate by default out of the box, was impossible to calibrate until 1.2 or 1.3) | 04:54 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, extreme angles | 04:55 |
| lcuk | my n810 has dodgy touchscreen at the moment | 04:55 |
| lcuk | and the calibration tool is funny | 04:55 |
| lcuk | it says "click here,here,here,here to calibrate | 04:55 |
| lcuk | but if you click directly over them (my screen is wayyyy out of alignment) it says try clicking closer | 04:56 |
| lcuk | as if it knows! | 04:56 |
| * lcuk dislikes computers trying to second guess humans | 04:56 | |
| ShadowJK | hehe | 04:56 |
| lcuk | i have been slowly pulling the calibration in | 04:57 |
| lcuk | training it pixel by pixel closer to the little bullseyes :) | 04:57 |
| ShadowJK | hm, is the tscalibrate tool for N810 opensauce? | 04:57 |
| lcuk | idk | 04:58 |
| lcuk | never looked, my ts was pretty bang on accurate on my 810 | 04:58 |
| lcuk | until I unpacked it recently | 04:58 |
| ShadowJK | The N900 one is, I vaguely recall compiling my own to fix the accuracy issue as screen edges before they fixed it in a PR | 04:58 |
| lcuk | do capacitives have same calibration issue? | 04:59 |
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| ShadowJK | dunno... but could you tell the difference if your thumb inprint was offset 10 pixels? | 05:00 |
| lcuk | lol | 05:00 |
| lcuk | on my 810 I could, there is a whole cm on the right thats innaccesible | 05:01 |
| * lcuk engage overtired mode | 05:01 | |
| ShadowJK | I saw a site that tested various capacitive touchscreens by using a ruler to draw a grid | 05:01 |
| ShadowJK | Some made jagged lines, some made wavy lines | 05:01 |
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| lcuk | yeah ShadowJK | 05:02 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, same effect on n900 | 05:03 |
| ShadowJK | really? | 05:03 |
| lcuk | i cannot show you cos my screen has some other stuff on it | 05:04 |
| lcuk | but yeah slow finger swipe diagonally results in wavey | 05:04 |
| lcuk | its based on finger speed and pressure and stuff, theres a certain speed you drag finger and it wibbles a bit | 05:05 |
| ShadowJK | stylus wipe? :) | 05:05 |
| lcuk | faster or slower and it doesnt | 05:05 |
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| lcuk | no contest, where you swipe the stylus it responds. | 05:05 |
| lcuk | same with fingernail etc | 05:05 |
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| tudovio_ | lusers | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | you mean /lusers | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:01 |
| tudovio_ | yes :) | 09:02 |
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| Stskeeps | jonwil: it isn't closed, but since stuff in trunk (thank god) can't link to non-oss, we have fbdev-sgx in there. then the extra thing you see is the bug that states arm source packages aren't exported to repo.meego.com :) if you grab it through download.meego.com/live/, there's a src rpm | 09:13 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | OSCON deadline February 8. This year, a new track on "Geek Lifestyles," not that anyone you know is a geek. | 09:15 |
| * alterego looks around | 09:15 | |
| alterego | Nope, no geeks here | 09:15 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Me neither. Here's what I spent my evening on: http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_and_Handset_Images_on_ExoPC | 09:20 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Hmm, fbdev-sgx. Maybe that will create the /dev/fb0 I don't get with Pandaboard if I load it instead of apparently broken fbdev? | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | no | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | fb0 is created by udev which gets it's data from what devices exist inside kernel :) | 09:22 |
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| Stskeeps | and fbdev-sgx is unlikely to work on panda | 09:23 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | But fbdev is a SO library, not a kernel module? I thought all X11 drivers were userland ones, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that I do not have a geek lifestyle. | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | fbdev-sgx is basically utilizing the kernel framebuffer interfaces + the SGX userland libraries to give an accelerated Xorg experience | 09:25 |
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| Stskeeps | kernel framebuffer interfaces is /dev/fb0 and such, which you say aren't being provided by kernel | 09:25 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Mmm, so udev creates device because video driver is registered with kernel, as with other devices. | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | so kernel DSS2 (omap dss2) isn't working correctly | 09:25 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | And Tomi Valkeinen just quit, too. Maybe I'll just buy a t.v. and watch celebrity news instead. | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | quit? :P | 09:26 |
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| jonwil | so is "xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx" the only special case where an open package links to a closed package and therefore has to go in non-oss? | 09:32 |
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| Stskeeps | right, to my knowledge | 09:33 |
| Alison_Chaiken | In all seriousness, Stskeeps, thanks as always for your everlasting patience and well-informed advice. Hyvä yötä! | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | it links to some non-platform APIs, so | 09:33 |
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| Stskeeps | jonwil: http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/non-oss/Trunk/src.armv7el/ | 09:34 |
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| jonwil | yeah I saw that | 09:34 |
| akshatj | got as far as this, http://imgur.com/fJEa5 | 09:35 |
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| akshatj | but clutter is failing to start | 09:35 |
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| jonwil | yeah I see now, that location is the "source" | 09:37 |
| jonwil | "source" RP | 09:37 |
| jonwil | RPMs for the binary bits | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | right, and fbdev-sgx actually contains source code | 09:37 |
| jonwil | I assume N900 GPS blobs will appear in non-oss once someone can build them for MeeGo and once the legal people sign off on it? | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see, i don't know exactly what conditions will be | 09:40 |
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| jonwil | but GPS on N900 MeeGo will remain binary though, right? | 09:40 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't know 100% | 09:41 |
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| jonwil | well I have been playing around with various binary bits from Maemo and MeeGo as an excuse to learn ARM assembly. Already reverse engineered some stuff related to the Internet Connectivity Daemon policy plugins on Fremantle (so that someone could write a new policy plugin that favors a "home" WiFi network over other networks). Currently | 09:47 |
| jonwil | Still got some work to do there once my n900 is back form the shop | 09:47 |
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| jonwil | Going to try the "favor home WiFi network" plugin myself | 09:47 |
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| jonwil | also was talking to lxp1 about the wl1251 driver and he mentioned that he didnt like having to support the "netlink" protocol and that he wanted to be able to remove it so that the wl1251 driver could be accepted upstream. Did some pulling apart and came up with this http://wiki.maemo.org/Wl1251-cal to help him out :) | 09:51 |
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| lcuk | Good morning (again) irc, you all look just a little different today. | 09:51 |
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| Krooks | whats with meego. Months and months of waiting, nothing. No phone, no pad, no product using it. | 10:45 |
| Jartza | correction: ONE product using it :) | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | we're platform developers here, no product developers, so you're barking up the wrong tree :) | 10:46 |
| Krooks | Jartza: whats the ONE ? | 10:47 |
| jonwil | You can run MeeGo on a N900 :P | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | Krooks: wetab, for instance | 10:47 |
| Jartza | wetab? | 10:47 |
| Krooks | Stskeeps: wetab is using meego ? | 10:47 |
| sandst1 | yep | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's based on meego core 1.0 | 10:47 |
| Krooks | oh | 10:47 |
| Alex-Meego | first devices are planned on september 11 imho | 10:48 |
| sandst1 | However, wetab didn't quite take off. http://news.kilibee.com/2010/10/04/wetab-final-words/ | 10:48 |
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| jonwil | I personally think MeeGo is being hurt by having 2 masters with different goals. Intel wants to use it to push x86 into places x86 shouldn't go | 10:49 |
| jonwil | And nokia has other goals | 10:49 |
| Alex-Meego | why not x86? | 10:51 |
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| raster | not sure that really has to conflict | 10:51 |
| raster | as thats just architecture | 10:51 |
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| raster | if u are unable to do things for the vast majority of an os in an architecture-agnostic way.. you have more fundamental engineering problems that have nothing to do with x86 vs arm but just having bad eningeers. | 10:52 |
| raster | being arch agnostic/portable isnt rocket science. it's a basic code of pretty much every bit of linux/unix has had for years if not decades. | 10:53 |
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| Stskeeps | jonwil: got any examples of where it's being hurt? | 10:55 |
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| jonwil | I just dont think x86 is suitable for cellphones | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | yes, possibly, but that doesn't change the architecture or code | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | similar challenges on both x86 and arm | 11:05 |
| raster | the differences between x8 and arm are different kernel ports | 11:06 |
| raster | and otherwise drivers | 11:06 |
| raster | or specific cpu optimizations | 11:06 |
| raster | like mmx/sse vs neon | 11:06 |
| raster | thats it | 11:06 |
| raster | as for the drivers - iits a solved problem | 11:06 |
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| raster | u have that problem between arm SoC's | 11:07 |
| raster | and on every x86 system in existence | 11:07 |
| raster | from audio thru to gfx etc. etc. | 11:07 |
| raster | and the simd optimizations are a solved problem | 11:07 |
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| raster | as every bit of code that is in any way portable has had to deal with that for many years by now | 11:07 |
| raster | they just dont compile neon assembly if comnpiling for x86 | 11:07 |
| raster | or vice-versa | 11:08 |
| raster | (dont compile the mmx/sse etc. asm when compiling for arm) | 11:08 |
| raster | and there is always a "c fallback" | 11:08 |
| raster | so compile the c fallback always | 11:08 |
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| raster | and IF the target arch u compile for is one you support in your code - ALSo compile the asm for that arech (neon or mmx/sse) | 11:08 |
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| raster | and at runtime detect suppoirt for the extended instr set | 11:08 |
| raster | and enable those faster routines instead of the c fallbacks | 11:09 |
| raster | nothing new there | 11:09 |
| jonwil | yeah | 11:09 |
| raster | been done on x86 since the pentium introduced mmx | 11:09 |
| raster | arm socs have had varying processor instructionset extensions over the years too | 11:09 |
| raster | vfp stuff in armv6 | 11:10 |
| raster | wmmx for the PXA line of soc's | 11:10 |
| raster | and neon as of armv7 and up is an option | 11:10 |
| raster | (tegra2 doesnt have it - most other cortex-a8 or a9 soc's support neon tho) | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | and then there's the nightmares of thumb2 actually working on cortex-a8 or not.. | 11:12 |
| raster | hehehe | 11:12 |
| raster | just keep clear of thumb | 11:12 |
| raster | thats my take | 11:12 |
| raster | :) | 11:12 |
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| * jonwil is glad he doesn't need to worry about thumb when reverse engineering maemo/meego bits | 11:15 | |
| jonwil | at least so far | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | n900 doesn't do thumb, so | 11:16 |
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| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: so that state after ctrl-c was confirmation of the erratum on r1p3? | 11:17 |
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| jonwil | hmmm, now if I could just figure out how the battery status widget in MeeGo obtains the battery data... | 11:17 |
| raster | on the n900? | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: i was able to trigger it more reliably after leaving it be for a bit | 11:18 |
| raster | via closed code last i knew | 11:18 |
| raster | not open | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: with apt-get update even | 11:18 |
| dm8tbr | ah, ok. I didn't try further yesterday | 11:18 |
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| jonwil | aha, it seems like contextkit-meego handles it and is using dbus to talk to something lower down (I think) | 11:22 |
| raster | which ends up at a closed src binary blob somewhere i believe | 11:23 |
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| jonwil | ok, what just happened and why did I just drop from the channel? | 11:26 |
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| Stskeeps | freenode? | 11:27 |
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| raster | jonwil: the channel disapproves of you :) | 11:30 |
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| jonwil | aha, upower is where the interesting bits live | 11:32 |
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| Venemo | morning | 11:33 |
| jonwil | well the bits that talk to the closed blobs | 11:33 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: I heard that MeeGo 1.2 is now in the beta stage | 11:34 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: could you tell me what's the status of the audio policy framework you talked about? | 11:34 |
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| jonwil | bah, all this stuff goes into upower and I cant for the life of me figure out what upower is talking to | 11:47 |
| jonwil | probably bme somehow but I cant find out how | 11:48 |
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| alterego | What's upower? | 11:51 |
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| jonwil | not exactly sure | 11:52 |
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| alterego | Heh | 11:52 |
| alterego | Is it a library? | 11:53 |
| alterego | Or a daemon? | 11:53 |
| jonwil | you talk to it over dbus from what I can tell | 11:53 |
| thiago_home | daemon | 11:53 |
| heffer | upower is a daemon | 11:53 |
| alterego | Right | 11:54 |
| alterego | What do you tell it over dbus? | 11:54 |
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| jonwil | what I cant figure out is the bits that sit between upower and bme | 11:55 |
| jonwil | the stuff above upower I dont care about | 11:55 |
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| jonwil | bah this is frustrating not being able to find what I am looking for | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: we don't have anything in meego (yet) for that :) | 12:11 |
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| jonwil | so basically right now the battery applet talks to upower but then upower doesnt talk to anything | 12:11 |
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| Stskeeps | except for a kernel interface saying if a wall charger is connected (..) | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: 'beta''s such an ugly word | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: it's included, afaik | 12:20 |
| jonwil | in the ideal world Nokia would provide a -dev package for libbmeipc, everyone would talk to libbmeipc and hence to bme and all would be right with the world. But that isn't likely to happen (just like its unlikely Nokia will publish documentation for the isi/phonet GPS interface that the n900 cell modem supports) | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: yes, that's my goal too (1) | 12:20 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: so does this mean that I can now make phone calls with the earpiece on MeeGo? :P | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: that's a good question | 12:20 |
| Venemo | heh | 12:21 |
| thiago_home | on meego, via ofono | 12:21 |
| thiago_home | it will work | 12:21 |
| thiago_home | on the n900... that's another story | 12:21 |
| Venemo | thiago_home: why? | 12:21 |
| thiago_home | it's hardware adaptation | 12:22 |
| thiago_home | apps shouldn't care | 12:22 |
| thiago_home | but the problem is when we don't get the specs from the HW vendor | 12:22 |
| jonwil | so stskeeps, your goal is to convince Nokia to publish libbmeipc-dev? | 12:23 |
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| Venemo | thiago_home: so what, doesn't Nokia provide the specs for its own distro? | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: i think we're working on a open version that gives access to the useful bits that needs to be exposed to meego | 12:24 |
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| thiago_home | no, it doesn't | 12:24 |
| Venemo | that's ridiculous | 12:24 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: well, anyway, we do have audio routing, i think the problem is that dialer isn't policy aware atm | 12:25 |
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| thiago_home | Venemo: such is the way of corporations | 12:26 |
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| Venemo | thiago_home: still, it is ridiculous. | 12:26 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: we do (surprisingily) have the algorithms and such in non-oss redistributable form to get a quite nice audio adaptation | 12:27 |
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| Stskeeps | as well as policy rules that are open | 12:27 |
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| jonwil | what do you mean by "algorithims and stuff"? | 12:39 |
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| jonwil | do you mean things like echo cancellation | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | and some other things | 12:40 |
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| Stskeeps | speaker protection, etc | 12:40 |
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| jonwil | whats AGC? | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | automatic gain control? | 12:43 |
| jonwil | interesting, there is stuff in there for dealing with temprature and audio (not sure why pulseaudio would care about temprature though) | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | physics? | 12:47 |
| X-Fade | jonwil: Probably compensation for stuttering when waiting for the bus in -20C and calling ;) | 12:48 |
| thiago_home | lol | 12:48 |
| X-Fade | c-c-c-old :) | 12:48 |
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| maxuser | hallo | 12:49 |
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| jonwil | whats xprot? | 12:51 |
| jonwil | hmmm, looks like xprot is related to speaker protection | 12:52 |
| jonwil | so my guess based on what I see is that speaker protection and temprature are related | 12:53 |
| jonwil | to prevent device temprature from damaging speakers | 12:53 |
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| lcuk2 | oooh more clones of me | 13:09 |
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| timoph | lcuk2: Agent Smith? | 13:33 |
| lcuk2 | timoph, something like that | 13:34 |
| lcuk2 | i turned off internet over the weekend because of it | 13:34 |
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| lcuk2 | the number of clones multiplied by the number of chans I am in | 13:35 |
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| jonwil | time to figure out which item from my todo list to reverse engineer next. | 13:38 |
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| CosmoHill | vgrade: I got your email, I'll deal with it after lunch | 14:24 |
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| jonwil | ok, I think I might reverse engineer hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc :) | 14:35 |
| CosmoHill | vgrade: I've emailed them | 14:36 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, more of what Stskeeps termed the "big reveal mentality"? http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/01/31/well-be-right-back/ | 14:42 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: at least they're saying something's up ;) | 14:46 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: You do know how tmo lemmings will call this? | 14:49 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: "Meego scrapped at Nokia, going with Symbian instead" =) | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: worse | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | WP7 scrapped, remade in 5 minutes in QML | 14:50 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Worse? A Conspiracy maybe? =)~ | 14:50 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: That was *already* reported on TMO, having seen the recent Symbian-related commits | 14:53 |
| jonwil | Symbian is junk :P | 14:53 |
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| jonwil | No way would I buy a Symbian phone ever | 14:53 |
| CosmoHill | :( | 14:54 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: omg :) | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Think it's part of the "N9 cancelled" thread | 14:54 |
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| RST38h | jonwil: symbian pays a lot of people salaries | 14:55 |
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| CosmoHill | Jaffa: that sounds like a troll thread | 14:55 |
| Jaffa | CosmoHill: More specifically the "N9 cancelled according to eldarmurtazin". So yes, a troll thread | 14:56 |
| CosmoHill | I can't even read that last word | 14:56 |
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| jonwil | Symbian may work ok for mid-tier feature phones but its lousy as a smartphone OS compared to Maemo/MeeGo, Android, iOS etc | 14:56 |
| jonwil | and yes I have used Symbian high-end phones before (e.g. N95) | 14:56 |
| RST38h | jonwil: Do you understand that we have all heard all of your arguments, to a word, many, many times? | 14:57 |
| RST38h | And that nobody disagrees, just sighs? :) | 14:57 |
| jonwil | I guess the problem for Nokia is that Maemo/MeeGo/whatever just isnt ready for a mass market consumer phone yet | 14:59 |
| jonwil | in the way that Symbian is | 14:59 |
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| smoku | jonwil, MeeGo is not intended for mass market | 15:17 |
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| chem|st | smoku: what else? | 15:19 |
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| jonwil | So Nokia intends for Symbian to be their mainstream smartphone platform and their main competitor to Windows Mobile, iOS and Android for the foreseeable future? | 15:22 |
| CosmoHill | why would they work on meego then? | 15:22 |
| jonwil | well if symbian is mass-market, then whats meego for? | 15:22 |
| jonwil | or is "mass-market" not smartphones but featurephones | 15:23 |
| smoku | jonwil, MeeGo is a project to create a core linux dictribution for mobile devices, for manufacturers like Nokia or Intel to build their mass-market products on | 15:23 |
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| smoku | it's not mass-market anymore thal say... copper wire. yes, copper wire is present in many mass-market products, but the wire itself is not mass-market product. people are not interested in - only manufaturers are. | 15:25 |
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| jonwil | yeah good point | 15:27 |
| jonwil | The $64k question that only is if and when Nokia will use MeeGo and its work to produce a consumer smartphone | 15:28 |
| jonwil | that only Nokia can answer | 15:28 |
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| Matan[M] | hmmm... so what with LG? LG have dirst Moblin phone, i think they can make line with MeeGo | 15:30 |
| chem|st | smoku: different perspective is ok, so android is not for mass-market neither?! | 15:30 |
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| Matan[M] | LG say "GTFO" for WP7 so they can adopt new OS | 15:31 |
| * jonwil wonders if the eventual N9 or whatever it ends up being is going to be as open and hacker-friendly as the N900 is... | 15:31 | |
| smoku | chem|st, android is a bit different. google is actually selling it to end users. linux foundation is not. | 15:31 |
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| smoku | chem|st, but. I would say that google search is a mass market product. android is just a way of selling it to more people. | 15:32 |
| chem|st | you mean as there are phones like the G1 and the G2... | 15:32 |
| chem|st | android is not sold to consumers... is it? | 15:33 |
| gour | when we can expect some meego phone to appear? | 15:33 |
| chem|st | fizzy-bits-talk... | 15:34 |
| chem|st | gour: some day in the futur | 15:34 |
| thiago_home | gour: this year | 15:34 |
| gour | chem|st: that's nothing new...by following that logic it may not happen at all :-D | 15:34 |
| thiago_home | gour: no one who knows the release date will tell you what it is | 15:35 |
| chem|st | gour: yeah as there is nothing new to tell about N9... and intentionally it tells there will be a release some day... | 15:35 |
| gour | thiago_home: will n9 become the 1st one or inte lmay push something earlier? | 15:35 |
| thiago_home | gour: I don't know about Intel plans | 15:36 |
| smoku | chem|st, if your cable company wants to sell you some TV or stuff, they need to deliver a cable endpoint to your house. google is just a "cable company" that doesn't want to rely on others lying cables for them anymore. they want full control over their medium - so android was bought. | 15:36 |
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| thiago_home | and Intel doesn't sell phones. They sell processors. | 15:36 |
| gour | well, they showd that A* prototype | 15:36 |
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| smoku | chem|st, so, the mass market product is still "search" - android is just a cable to put it in your pocket | 15:36 |
| thiago_home | gour: Aava? That was a company who produced it. | 15:37 |
| thiago_home | gour: not Intel. | 15:37 |
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| gour | thiago_home: yeah...but it was intel-based, right? | 15:37 |
| thiago_home | gour: Aava Mobile took the netbook processors and put it on a phone form factor | 15:37 |
| thiago_home | anyone with enough technical knowledge can do that | 15:37 |
| gour | maybe intel & nokia are waiting for android 3.0 :-D | 15:37 |
| jorma | aava has a 1 hour battery life | 15:37 |
| smoku | chem|st, answering your question - is a cable a mass market product? yet (almost) everyone has one. | 15:37 |
| chem|st | like nokia sells network infrastructure | 15:38 |
| thiago_home | chem|st: NSN does | 15:38 |
| chem|st | thiago_home: and thats not nokia? | 15:38 |
| thiago_home | smoku: if everyone has, it's mass market | 15:38 |
| thiago_home | chem|st: it's a subsidiary | 15:38 |
| thiago_home | chem|st: and it's not wholly owned | 15:38 |
| thiago_home | chem|st: Aava has no ownership relationship with Intel, as far as I know | 15:39 |
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| chem|st | so meego is some cable for ovi in the longterm | 15:40 |
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| thiago_home | I'm sure Nokia would like that, but Ovi is not mandated | 15:40 |
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| thiago_home | one can release a fully-working and meego-compliant device without Ovi | 15:40 |
| thiago_home | unlike Android | 15:40 |
| chem|st | agreed | 15:41 |
| * gour wonders what's for intel to be gained with meego...considering power consumption of their cpus | 15:41 | |
| thiago_home | gour: clearly Intel is reducing the power consumption | 15:41 |
| thiago_home | and there are many markets where 6W is no big deal | 15:41 |
| smoku | chem|st, we don't know what this cable is for yet. and I'm pretty sure MeeGo supporters do not know too. they are just covering their bases to not be left behind. | 15:41 |
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| gour | thiago_home: that's right, but they're still far away...arm is also not sleeping | 15:41 |
| thiago_home | for example, on the set-top-box market, ARM has no presence | 15:41 |
| thiago_home | it's either Intel or MIPS | 15:41 |
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| smoku | gour, there are meego appliances where power consumption is not an issue, but processing power is. thing IVI | 15:42 |
| jonwil | "ARM has no presence"? Tell that to the makers of a certainT box with a piece of fruit | 15:43 |
| jonwil | certain TV box with a piece of fruit on the top | 15:43 |
| jonwil | although to be fair, thats one product in a see of hundreds | 15:43 |
| thiago_home | jonwil: ok, it's a figure of speech. The market is dominated by the others. | 15:43 |
| thiago_home | which are shipped in the millions | 15:43 |
| * jonwil is surprised MIPS hangs on in this market so much | 15:44 | |
| smoku | jonwil, 'vendor lockdown' | 15:44 |
| * thiago_home likes MIPS64 | 15:44 | |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: do you know of any MIPS64 development machines? | 15:45 |
| thiago_home | we used to have some running IRIX | 15:45 |
| thiago_home | we threw them away | 15:45 |
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| CosmoHill | after uni I'd like to do development work for CLFS but it requires hardware I don't have | 15:46 |
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| * jonwil hopes his replacement N900 arrives at the nokia care center soon :( | 15:48 | |
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| CosmoHill | I do like my nokia but there are a few things I miss about my sony erricson | 15:51 |
| gour | sar level? | 15:51 |
| CosmoHill | like when you text someone my sony offered the most recent 10 people I texted | 15:51 |
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| CosmoHill | so if you text someone a lot you just press down to select them | 15:52 |
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| thiago_home | it's usually at the top in the Conversations on the N900 | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | mine is Symban S60 | 15:52 |
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| solon86 | Hi, can someone help me with telepathy? | 16:29 |
| alterego | solon86: best to ask you specific query than ask about asking etc. | 16:30 |
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| dneary_ | solon86, You have to close your eyes and concentrate really hard... | 16:37 |
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| Venemo | lol dneary_ | 16:40 |
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| pavanai | how to setup a nokia n900 virtualdevice? | 16:56 |
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| pavanai | how to setup a nokia n900 virtualdevice? | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | what is it? | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:00 |
| pavanai | jjardon, how to setup a nokia n900 virtualdevice? | 17:00 |
| alterego | Three times in two minutes? | 17:01 |
| alterego | qemu has an N900 profile, it isn't perfect but it boots meego, look it up on the wiki. | 17:01 |
| pavanai | Stskeeps, wt? | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | to be specific: what on earth are you talking about | 17:02 |
| pavanai | alterego, how to setup a meego virtual device? | 17:02 |
| pavanai | i've all the files | 17:02 |
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| alterego | pavanai: search the wiki | 17:02 |
| pavanai | Stskeeps, i want to setup a meego virtual device | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | yes, we got your point | 17:04 |
| pavanai | alterego, which one | 17:04 |
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| Stskeeps | what do you mean exactly? an emulator? | 17:04 |
| alterego | pavanai: wiki.meego.com | 17:04 |
| pavanai | Stskeeps, ya thats it | 17:04 |
| dneary_ | Venemo, I try so hard not to do it, but it's just more than I can take :) | 17:05 |
| pavanai | Stskeeps, i've all files | 17:05 |
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| pavanai | alterego, thnx | 17:05 |
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| pavanai | Stskeeps, do u know it? | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | pavanai: yes, but i think you're better off using the MeeGo SDK provided emulators. | 17:06 |
| pavanai | Stskeeps, i hav all those files | 17:07 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, then there's guides how to use them too.. | 17:07 |
| pavanai | Stskeeps, but hw to install emulator in ubuntu? | 17:07 |
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| pavanai | Stskeeps, i tried | 17:08 |
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| ericpagafantas | hi !! | 18:16 |
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| screwgoth | Hi, I'm trying to setup the Meego SDK and runtime, instructions from : http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Configuring_QEMU_runtimes | 18:17 |
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| Conquer | umm.. will nokia ditch old symbian entierly when meego arrives? | 18:18 |
| screwgoth | But when I run : sudo mad remote -r meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime poweron , I get "Starting QEMU runtime meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime.This may take some time ..." | 18:18 |
| screwgoth | And then nothing ... Any help | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | Conquer: we're not #nokia, we develop meego.com :) | 18:18 |
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| Conquer | aaah.. yeah i forgot linux foundation produces meego not nokia. | 18:19 |
| Conquer | Nokia however funds it? | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | so does intel | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | long story short, none of us here knows anything and the ones who might, most likely can't tell you about it | 18:20 |
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| mwichmann | screwgoth: you sure it's "nothing"? | 18:21 |
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| Umeaboy | Hi! | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | morn Umeaboy | 18:21 |
| Umeaboy | I've sent a request to join the Swedish translation-team for Meego. Can someone please accept? | 18:22 |
| Umeaboy | I'd like to start right away if possible. | 18:22 |
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| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: sec | 18:23 |
| Umeaboy | Is it OK to create a locale-room for MeeGo when it comes to Swedish? | 18:23 |
| Umeaboy | Like #meego-sv | 18:23 |
| Umeaboy | Just asking. | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Localization_team | 18:24 |
| mwichmann | depending on your host, it should be writing to /usr/lib{64}/madde/cache, can you check if anything happening there | 18:24 |
| mwichmann | (I've told them cache should be in /var but they're not listening to me) | 18:24 |
| Umeaboy | Btw..............since I'm here.......... why doesn't ls work in Terminal/Console? | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | isn't # -se better? but if you make a irc channel, please read http://wiki.meego.com/Local_MeeGo_Networks , http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines#New_MeeGo_Channels | 18:25 |
| mwichmann | hmmm, I guess you already have the stuff downloaded, perhaps "never mind" | 18:25 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: 'ls' should work | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:25 |
| Umeaboy | Nothing happens when I do so. | 18:26 |
| Umeaboy | I'm fully updated. | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | ls / | 18:26 |
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| Umeaboy | That works, but not ls alone. | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | it means that the directory you 'ls' in, either has no files or only .hidden files | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | ls -a | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | ls .. | 18:27 |
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| Umeaboy | Okey. | 18:29 |
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| Umeaboy | What packageing-solution does MeeGo use? | 18:29 |
| Umeaboy | RPM? | 18:29 |
| Umeaboy | DEB? | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | rpm | 18:30 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. Based on Fedora? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | nop, on itself | 18:30 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | it pulls a bit from everywhere | 18:30 |
| Umeaboy | But using Fedora-RPM's shouldn't be a problem? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | it might be | 18:30 |
| Umeaboy | Because of? | 18:31 |
| Umeaboy | Missing libs? | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | for instance, or different ways of doing things, etc | 18:31 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: / X-Fade: which url should I use in the CO office agenda for tomorrow: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings | 18:31 |
| DawnFoster | I need to email the agenda and link to the mailing list. | 18:32 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: We'll have a page tonight? Is that ok? (Which is a few hours for us) | 18:32 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: not really - we need a page where people can put their ideas in advance of the meeting | 18:32 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: something link this http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=Community_Office/Meetings/Brainstorming_12-7-10&oldid=23418 | 18:33 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Well, we don't have it now. And have time to do that in a few hours :) | 18:33 |
| DawnFoster | should only take a few minute to prepate | 18:33 |
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| DawnFoster | just need a list of the topics / questions you want to cover | 18:33 |
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| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Was more a list of policy items we wanted to discuss. | 18:33 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: but you need to give other people time to participate, too | 18:34 |
| DawnFoster | and the meeting is tomorrow | 18:34 |
| DawnFoster | maybe pick the top 3-5 questions that you want feedback on? | 18:34 |
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| DawnFoster | and add more later? | 18:34 |
| Umeaboy | /msg Chanserv SET #meego-se guard | 18:35 |
| Umeaboy | What am I doing wrong? | 18:35 |
| DawnFoster | keep in mind that we only have an hour, so we really need to focus on the areas where we can make the biggest difference. | 18:35 |
| Umeaboy | I want Chanserv to join. | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: 'on' ? | 18:35 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Yeah, timing is a bit an issue as it is end of our work day and dinner time ;) | 18:35 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: yep - we're going to try and structure that. | 18:35 |
| Umeaboy | In #meego-se | 18:35 |
| Umeaboy | To guard when I'm not there. | 18:36 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: In all fairness, I did ask for this on Friday :) | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: chanserv guards anyway | 18:36 |
| Umeaboy | Ooooooh. | 18:36 |
| Umeaboy | Good. | 18:36 |
| Umeaboy | ;) | 18:36 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: if you want to create a general 'brainstorm' page for general use then that's a good idea | 18:36 |
| Umeaboy | How do I get Chanserv to join? | 18:36 |
| lbt | s///want us/ | 18:36 |
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| Umeaboy | Tried help-command, but failed. | 18:36 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: We're just voluteers here, sometimes life gets in the way. I'm sorry about that. | 18:36 |
| DawnFoster | lbt I just need 3-5 questions or topics on a page | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: /msg chanserv access #meego-se guard on ? | 18:37 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: here's the first version of the page I started with http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=Community_Office/Meetings/Brainstorming_12-7-10&oldid=22772 | 18:38 |
| DawnFoster | it's really very simple | 18:38 |
| DawnFoster | I think you guys are making it more difficult than it needs to be | 18:38 |
| Umeaboy | Doesn't work. | 18:38 |
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| Umeaboy | I think I'll have to read the manual for xChat again. | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: #freenode should exist for help, may be something about amount of people in channel.. | 18:39 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: will look | 18:39 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: thanks. It really should only take 5 minutes | 18:40 |
| DawnFoster | and then we can continue to add details and ideas until the meeting tomorrow | 18:40 |
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| Umeaboy | Any Swedes here besides me? | 18:43 |
| Umeaboy | I guess noone's here. | 18:44 |
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| dneary_ | Hi DawnFoster | 18:45 |
| dneary_ | DawnFoster, Did you see Mike around this morning? | 18:45 |
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| andre__ | Umeaboy: there are some Swedes here according to the hostmasks | 18:49 |
| Umeaboy | Okey. | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | didn't meego sverige or something exist? | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | or was that maemo | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | ah yes, http://www.meegosweden.com/ | 18:50 |
| Umeaboy | Uhu. | 18:51 |
| Umeaboy | Then I should probably unreg my channel. | 18:51 |
| Umeaboy | Doh! | 18:51 |
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| Stskeeps | or start a community together on irc | 18:52 |
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| Umeaboy | Yeah. | 18:52 |
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| thiago_home | you + 1 = community | 18:53 |
| Umeaboy | Yeah. | 18:53 |
| mwichmann | hey, I've tried that line and been told it's not enough :) | 18:54 |
| DawnFoster | dneary: mike shave? | 18:54 |
| thiago_home | mwichmann: two is not a community? | 18:54 |
| thiago_home | mwichmann: we know three is a crowd | 18:54 |
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| Umeaboy | Stskeeps: Noone's in there. | 18:59 |
| Umeaboy | #meegosweden | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: .com, not # | 18:59 |
| dneary_ | DawnFoster, I don't know, I haven't seen him | 18:59 |
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| Umeaboy | May I ask how it's possible to use something similar to Indamixx in Meego? | 19:15 |
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| * Umeaboy is away: Bach. Johann Sebastian Bach. | 19:20 | |
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| roof69 | hi all | 20:36 |
| roof69 | can you please help me? i have problems with wifi and with icq. | 20:36 |
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| roof69 | может кто-то? | 20:37 |
| roof69 | хей | 20:39 |
| roof69 | hei | 20:39 |
| CosmoHill | icq? the chat program? | 20:40 |
| CosmoHill | do you have a broadcom wifi chip? | 20:41 |
| roof69 | iep i have wifi chip from broadcom | 20:42 |
| CosmoHill | read this: http://slaine.org/_slaine/Meego_1.1_Wifi.html | 20:42 |
| roof69 | ies icq the chat program. ICQ don't connect to the server | 20:42 |
| roof69 | thx but this linck dont help mee | 20:42 |
| roof69 | last point don't worck | 20:42 |
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| CosmoHill | there is no "c" in work | 20:42 |
| roof69 | sory | 20:43 |
| CosmoHill | number 7 doesn't work? | 20:43 |
| roof69 | iep | 20:43 |
| CosmoHill | yep* | 20:43 |
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| roof69 | sory ) | 20:43 |
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| CosmoHill | I can tell english isn't your first language so please don't be offended when I correct it, just trying to help :) | 20:44 |
| CosmoHill | what error do you get from number 7? if there is no RPM it means that number 6 has failed | 20:44 |
| roof69 | yes my first is rus. | 20:44 |
| thiago_home | when you say "doesn't work", what do you mean? | 20:44 |
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| roof69 | sec | 20:45 |
| roof69 | i can send you the log's | 20:45 |
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| thiago_home | pastebin them | 20:46 |
| CosmoHill | pastebin.org | 20:46 |
| roof69 | ou. now it installed | 20:46 |
| roof69 | hm strange. | 20:46 |
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| roof69 | i need reset the OS? | 20:47 |
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| CosmoHill | yes | 20:48 |
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| roof89 | cong me :) | 20:59 |
| roof89 | i just do it :) | 21:00 |
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| roof89 | i know why i cant do it. becouse i don't have installed system updates | 21:01 |
| roof89 | now problem with ICQ | 21:01 |
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| CosmoHill | check bugs.meego.com | 21:03 |
| CosmoHill | I think it's a known issue | 21:03 |
| roof89 | ok sec | 21:04 |
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| roof89 | yes it bug in status NEW ( | 21:05 |
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| CosmoHill | what is the bug number? | 21:06 |
| DawnFoster1 | lbt: / X-Fade: I need to get that agenda out now to give people time to think about it. | 21:08 |
| DawnFoster1 | so I need some kind of link from you guys | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | recentchanges claim http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings/Brainstorming_11-02-01 as a possible candidate | 21:10 |
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| lbt | mmm yeah... should have linked it here too | 21:13 |
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| roof89 | number is 13002 | 21:15 |
| CosmoHill | bug 13002 | 21:16 |
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| CosmoHill | damn bot | 21:16 |
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| anidel | Hi Ryan | 21:18 |
| roof89 | no problem :) | 21:19 |
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| DawnFoster1 | Stskeeps: sweet, thanks! not sure why they didn't link it off of the agenda or ping me | 21:21 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster1: my dinner intervened | 21:22 |
| DawnFoster1 | lbt: no worries | 21:22 |
| DawnFoster1 | I'll use the link Stskeeps sent & get the agenda out now | 21:22 |
| lcuk | lbt, was it a nice dinner? | 21:24 |
| lcuk | hi anidel \o | 21:24 |
| * lcuk waves @ DawnFoster1 o/ | 21:24 | |
| DawnFoster1 | hey lcuk | 21:24 |
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| anidel | hey lcuk | 21:26 |
| lbt | lcuk: hot dogs on brown bread .... yummy | 21:26 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: I just had bangers and mash with gravy :) | 21:28 |
| CosmoHill | *lbt | 21:28 |
| CosmoHill | either / or | 21:28 |
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| lbt | CosmoHill: mmmm | 21:29 |
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| lcuk | :D lbt CosmoHill awesome | 21:33 |
| * lcuk has only had a piece of pizza so far | 21:33 | |
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| pcacjr_ | Is there any file that contains the meego version number ? | 21:40 |
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| dm8tbr | yeah in /etc/ somewhere | 21:42 |
| pcacjr_ | dm8tbr: Thanks | 21:42 |
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| berndhs | its in /etc/system-release or something similar | 21:43 |
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| pcacjr_ | Found it. it's in /etc/meego-release :-) | 21:44 |
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| nazgee | what might be the reason of uxlaunch not starting queued applications? in .log I can see those apps are queued, but after all, they are not being started. do I have to dig throug the code, or maybe the answer is somewhere here? | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | code is always good :) | 22:32 |
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| nazgee | well, I do not care if it is bad karma or I am doing something wrong, but I definitely need some help on this one ;] | 22:35 |
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| nazgee | and one more thing that probably should be added to the picture- most of the time it works fine, but sometimes (15-30%) somthing goes wrong, and pufff- few apps are just not being started for some reason. | 22:38 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders if mailing list guidelines has a "off topic" thing | 22:40 | |
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| auke | nazgee: error codes showing in /var/log/uxlaunch.log? ~/.xsession-errors? | 22:41 |
| nazgee | afair- not at all | 22:42 |
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| auke | well post both of them somewhere so I can see | 22:42 |
| auke | <- idiot who wrote uxlaunch | 22:42 |
| nazgee | pitty I do not have these logs backed up, but it happens quite often, so I'll try to grab it some time | 22:42 |
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| nazgee | <- idiot who can't use it | 22:43 |
| auke | haha | 22:44 |
| auke | that reminds me I need to get uxlaunch to pipe Xorg output to .xsession-errors as well | 22:44 |
| nazgee | iirc my short encounter with your code- it should work fine if .destkop file is queued, and it is | 22:45 |
| nazgee | hmm. maybe that is the way to go- app I am talking about is a graphic one (qt/qml) | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | auke: while we're talking .xsession-errors, shouldn't this only be used when in a debug mode and otherwise /dev/null ? | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, mmc writes can mean a lot :) | 22:46 |
| auke | not really | 22:46 |
| nazgee | are there really that much of it to give a damn about it? few logs per startup? | 22:46 |
| auke | although I'm getting tired of slapping UX developers for spamming debug output | 22:46 |
| auke | Stskeeps: abusers of log facilities need to be larted (and fix their stuff) | 22:47 |
| auke | nazgee: on some platforms, it's excessive | 22:47 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: oh, i agree | 22:48 |
| nazgee | but uxlaunch already logs +50 lines each startup. would additional few change anything in the big picture? and if no X error occurs, there would be round 0 of additional printouts added | 22:48 |
| nazgee | or probably I don;t get it again... | 22:49 |
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| Stskeeps | i am starting to become of a proponent of driver's licenses for the internet | 22:55 |
| nazgee | actually I am drinking beer at the moment... no more? | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | ah, wasn't referring to you, just an ongoing conversation on meego-dev mailing list :P | 22:56 |
| nazgee | meybe thet are drinking too? ;] | 22:56 |
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| berndhs | if we require competence and good sense from internet users, this will be a lonely place :) | 22:58 |
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| Stskeeps | lo achipa | 22:59 |
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| DawnFoster1 | w00t_: sorry about that misdirected reply-to | 23:22 |
| w00t_ | DawnFoster1: np - I was just curious if I was off line somewhere, but assumed it was confusion :) | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster1 | w00t_: was agreeing with your reply to the troll, not meaning to imply that you were on the hit list :) | 23:23 |
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| DawnFoster1 | night Stskeeps | 23:24 |
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