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| CosmoHill | sometimes it's so much easier to use wget | 00:34 |
|---|---|---|
| CosmoHill | or curl, that's a bit of a pain tho | 00:34 |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster | 00:35 |
| DawnFoster | hey CosmoHill | 00:37 |
| CosmoHill | how's work going? | 00:38 |
| * auke cries | 00:38 | |
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| thiago_home | auke: coming next week? | 00:39 |
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| auke | if I can stop crying, maybe | 00:46 |
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| CosmoHill | auke: sup? | 00:48 |
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| thiago_home | auke: I'll buy you a beer next week | 00:53 |
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| thiago_home | in one of the open bar social events | 00:53 |
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| * lcuk would have beer with auke if he was there too :) | 00:56 | |
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| qgil | http://conference2010.meego.com/news/just-few-days-left-tips-and-directions - see the graph :) | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | taxi drivers in Dublin know their way around | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | speaking from experience | 00:58 |
| thiago_home | that was over 4 years ago though | 00:58 |
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| CosmoHill | taxi drivers know there way around, it's their job | 01:01 |
| thiago_home | *usually* | 01:02 |
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| CosmoHill | qgil: will there be anything about local sim card? I know GAN900 wanted to know so maybe others wanted to know too | 01:02 |
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| auke | yeah, I'll be there guys | 01:04 |
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| smithna | What is the actual app that is called from IVI Home -> Tools -> Settings ? | 02:38 |
| smithna | nm, it's duicontrolpanel | 02:40 |
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| lebronjames | sup | 04:40 |
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| lebronjames | hi | 04:53 |
| lebronjames | what is meego | 04:53 |
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| lebronjames | nobody knows? | 04:56 |
| pixelgeek | There's just a lot of idelrs on the channel | 04:56 |
| pixelgeek | idlers | 04:56 |
| lebronjames | o | 04:56 |
| lebronjames | lame | 04:57 |
| pixelgeek | lebronjames: check out http://meego.com/about | 04:57 |
| lebronjames | wakeup idlers | 04:57 |
| lebronjames | pixelgeek, spoon feed me please | 04:57 |
| pixelgeek | That description is pretty self-explanatory. It's a linux distribution. | 04:57 |
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| lebronjames | well | 04:58 |
| lebronjames | what for | 04:58 |
| pixelgeek | further down on that page - MeeGo currently targets platforms such as netbooks/entry-level desktops, handheld computing and communications devices, in-vehicle infotainment devices, connected TVs, and media phones. | 04:58 |
| lebronjames | hrm | 04:59 |
| lebronjames | gimme more! | 04:59 |
| pixelgeek | Check out meego.com - it's all there. | 04:59 |
| lebronjames | no | 05:00 |
| lebronjames | u check it out | 05:00 |
| lebronjames | u hear me | 05:01 |
| pixelgeek | I hear. I have checked it out. | 05:01 |
| lebronjames | punk | 05:01 |
| lebronjames | no you're not listening | 05:01 |
| chriadam | pixelgeek: were you in channel yesterday when MrTroll disturbed the peace? | 05:01 |
| lebronjames | check it out | 05:01 |
| pixelgeek | No apparently I missed the fun | 05:02 |
| lebronjames | and check my asshole out too | 05:02 |
| pixelgeek | I'll go check the logs | 05:02 |
| berndhs | this looks like the same type of thing | 05:02 |
| pixelgeek | nice | 05:02 |
| lebronjames | idlers come to life | 05:02 |
| lebronjames | let's talk meego | 05:02 |
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| lebronjames | meego talk please | 05:03 |
| lebronjames | i wanna talk meego | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | what is it | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | where do i get it ? | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | what can i use it on ? | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | how much does it cost ? | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | can i become involved in development ? | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | who created meego ? | 05:04 |
| wmarone | www.meego.com | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | what is your favorite type of cereal in the morning ? | 05:04 |
| wmarone | no need to spam the channel with answered questions | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | o that one's not meego | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | my bad | 05:04 |
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| lebronjames | wmarone, you have a problem ? | 05:04 |
| osx5 | hello everyone | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | hi | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | sup osx5 | 05:04 |
| wmarone | someone needs to set a more effective ban on you | 05:04 |
| osx5 | I'm downloading Meego for my netbook | 05:04 |
| lebronjames | nothing but idlers here | 05:05 |
| osx5 | wmarone: what DE environment does meego use? | 05:05 |
| wmarone | DE? | 05:05 |
| lebronjames | osx5, can you be more specific ? | 05:05 |
| wmarone | meego has its own | 05:05 |
| DawnFoster | should I ban the troll? | 05:05 |
| osx5 | lebronjames: I was wondering what is uses, like gnome etc | 05:05 |
| lebronjames | o | 05:06 |
| lebronjames | i c | 05:06 |
| lebronjames | meego.com | 05:06 |
| lebronjames | get the fuck out | 05:06 |
| lebronjames | RTFM | 05:06 |
| wmarone | DawnFoster: if you do, apply *!*@@209.189.232.* | 05:06 |
| wmarone | lebronjames: spamming the channel does no one any good | 05:06 |
| lebronjames | where's the troll ? | 05:06 |
| michaelg|nok | DawnFoster: yes please | 05:07 |
| johnx | DawnFoster, I'll vote yes as well | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | i vote yes too | 05:07 |
| osx5 | wmarone: Does meego use a certain type of package manager? like .deb? | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | i hate trolls | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | osx5, RTFM | 05:07 |
| johnx | osx5, it uses rpms | 05:07 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DawnFoster | 05:07 | |
| lebronjames | fuck | 05:07 |
| osx5 | ty | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | me | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | in | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | the | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | ass | 05:07 |
| chriadam | osx5: developers should use Qt to develop applications for MeeGo. MeeGo uses RPM format for packaging iirc. | 05:07 |
| osx5 | see ya lebron | 05:07 |
| lebronjames | laterz | 05:08 |
| lebronjames | osx | 05:08 |
| lebronjames | get the fuck out | 05:08 |
| lebronjames | i hate u | 05:08 |
| *** DawnFoster sets mode: +b *!*@@209.189.232.* | 05:08 | |
| lebronjames | lame | 05:08 |
| wmarone | DawnFoster: gotta kick, too :) | 05:08 |
| lebronjames | naw | 05:08 |
| lebronjames | kick the troll | 05:08 |
| lebronjames | he's a nigger | 05:08 |
| *** lebronjames was kicked by DawnFoster (lebronjames) | 05:08 | |
| michaelg|nok | \o/ | 05:09 |
| chriadam | ty DawnFoster, that was getting irritating. | 05:09 |
| wmarone | I sadly suspect he'll be back at some point :( | 05:09 |
| DawnFoster | I suspect it's MrTroll from yesterday | 05:09 |
| wmarone | it is | 05:09 |
| pixelgeek | My apologies for feeding him | 05:09 |
| DawnFoster | sorry that took so long - I kept botching it :) | 05:09 |
| wmarone | same hostmask | 05:09 |
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| DawnFoster | auke is really good at kicking people :) | 05:10 |
| DawnFoster | it's evening here & I'm most of the way through a glass of wine. | 05:10 |
| wmarone | heh | 05:10 |
| DawnFoster | pixelgeek: thanks for pinging me - I was ignoring IRC | 05:11 |
| johnx | DawnFoster, cheers (in both senses of the word) :) | 05:11 |
| DawnFoster | johnx: thanks! | 05:11 |
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| pixelgeek | :) | 05:13 |
| DawnFoster | oh great - now he's sending me pm's | 05:13 |
| lebronjames | who is? | 05:13 |
| DawnFoster | *ignore* | 05:13 |
| wmarone | DawnFoster: talk to freenode staff | 05:13 |
| wmarone | I don't know why he's -here-, of all places | 05:14 |
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| osx5 | hello again | 06:14 |
| pixelgeek | Hi osx5 | 06:14 |
| osx5 | I just installed meego on my netbook, and when I try to update teh system it says I needto make a security signature | 06:15 |
| osx5 | how do I go about doing that | 06:15 |
| johnx | osx5, what does it say exactly? | 06:15 |
| pixelgeek | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=360 | 06:15 |
| * pixelgeek <3 google | 06:16 | |
| osx5 | u roc | 06:17 |
| osx5 | k | 06:17 |
| osx5 | pixelgeek: can I switch gnome to xfce? or no | 06:17 |
| * pixelgeek only started playing with Meego two weeks ago... | 06:18 | |
| osx5 | oh sorry | 06:18 |
| pixelgeek | I know there's a X server under the hood... | 06:19 |
| sofar | you can install xfce on meego, but not gnome (unless you compile it) | 06:19 |
| sofar | however, xfce is only present in the community OBS | 06:19 |
| sofar | and it's not documented yet | 06:19 |
| osx5 | k | 06:20 |
| osx5 | sofar: when I try to run yum, keeps saying command yum not found | 06:21 |
| pixelgeek | Meego 1.1? | 06:21 |
| osx5 | yup | 06:22 |
| osx5 | i'm surprised they didn't make xfce the default | 06:23 |
| osx5 | its lighter | 06:23 |
| pixelgeek | MeeGo 1.1. uses Zypper (from OpenSUSE) instead of Yum for console package management. You can still install Yum through the graphical package manager though. | 06:23 |
| osx5 | ah | 06:23 |
| osx5 | cool | 06:23 |
| osx5 | I didn't know that | 06:23 |
| bef0rd | zypper is cooler though | 06:23 |
| osx5 | I thought it was using yum | 06:23 |
| pixelgeek | I saw it mentioned on IRC, found the quote on the forums | 06:24 |
| osx5 | hm | 06:25 |
| osx5 | is there anyway I can see the entire file system | 06:25 |
| osx5 | or only in command line | 06:25 |
| bef0rd | there is nautilus | 06:25 |
| osx5 | in the gui app installer? | 06:28 |
| osx5 | bef0rd the issue i'm having right now is, i installed the xfce stuff | 06:28 |
| osx5 | not i'm trying to change the run level to booti nto xfce | 06:28 |
| bef0rd | check the /etc/inittab | 06:29 |
| bef0rd | but I am not sure if meego uses it | 06:29 |
| bef0rd | :P | 06:29 |
| bef0rd | uxlaunch is the netbook ux launcher | 06:30 |
| bef0rd | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/uxlaunch/commit/37c14a6c0e08f9e4ad66acde8f858e573d1d34f9 | 06:31 |
| bef0rd | there you go, replace the uxlaunch command by the xfce start command which I believe is startxfce4 or something like that | 06:32 |
| osx5 | ty | 06:32 |
| bef0rd | if it doesn't work you may need to boot from a live disk to fix it, or start in runlevel 0/3 | 06:33 |
| bef0rd | also make a backup of the file before changing anything | 06:33 |
| osx5 | do I have to add this in? | 06:34 |
| osx5 | the link you sent | 06:34 |
| osx5 | or download this uxlaunch and compile it? | 06:34 |
| bef0rd | no.. try to read everything I said | 06:34 |
| osx5 | i'm in the /etc/inittab and I don't see anything about ex in there | 06:34 |
| osx5 | ux* | 06:35 |
| bef0rd | it's on the forums aswell, try searching there first | 06:37 |
| bef0rd | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=562 | 06:37 |
| osx5 | ty | 06:37 |
| osx5 | apreciate the help mamn | 06:39 |
| osx5 | man | 06:39 |
| osx5 | I do like this distro so far | 06:39 |
| osx5 | runs fast | 06:39 |
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| osx5 | blah | 06:42 |
| osx5 | i rebooted and it just says : x respawning too fast, disabled for 5 minutes | 06:43 |
| pixelgeek | Ah - that too a known issue | 06:43 |
| pixelgeek | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=447 | 06:44 |
| osx5 | lol | 06:45 |
| osx5 | why is it so hard to get xfce going! | 06:45 |
| osx5 | lol | 06:45 |
| pixelgeek | (BTW ^^ didn't work for me when I tried running the netbook image under VirtualBox) | 06:45 |
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| osx5 | i guess i'm stuck with gnome :( | 06:45 |
| osx5 | sincei t's the default | 06:45 |
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| sofar | there is no gnome on meego | 06:50 |
| sofar | it's "MeeGo Netbook" | 06:50 |
| sofar | it maybe looks a bit like gnome, but it's not. | 06:50 |
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| andrewfblack | is there anyway to get files onto meego handset? | 06:51 |
| sofar | on what platform? | 06:52 |
| andrewfblack | n900 | 06:52 |
| sofar | usb cable or wireless | 06:52 |
| andrewfblack | does mass storage mode work with usb cable? | 06:52 |
| sofar | I think you can use usb-gadget mode on the connected system (linux) and ssh | 06:53 |
| andrewfblack | sofar: ok didn't know meego had a ssh server running on it thanks | 06:54 |
| sofar | n900 has | 06:54 |
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| Mat_Matan | hi | 07:07 |
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| pixelgeek | hi Mat_Matan | 07:18 |
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| mrcerulean | Good $greeting_time, everyone. | 07:34 |
| mrcerulean | I'm trying to install the Google Voice and Video Chat plugin on 1.1 | 07:34 |
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| mrcerulean | libcrypto is required. | 07:34 |
| mrcerulean | How do I get it? | 07:34 |
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| newjor | help!!! I have trouble in installing meego sdk1.1.After executing the command 'mic-chroot /(mounted document)',i execute the command 'startmeego &',and nothing displayed. | 09:46 |
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| newjor | help!!! I have trouble in installing meego sdk1.1.After executing the command 'mic-chroot /(mounted document)',i execute the command 'startmeego &',and nothing displayed. | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | no need to repeat | 09:49 |
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| newjor | who can help me? | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | what guide did you follow | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 09:57 |
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| sx0n | http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2010/11/the-meego-progress-report-a-or-d/ | 10:08 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, dneary from here wrote it | 10:09 |
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| sx0n | yep. Interesting thoughts. | 10:16 |
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| Guest84749 | Hi, I have a question about meego handset video drivers: | 10:56 |
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| djszapi | lbt: is your open collaboration service still pending ? | 10:58 |
| lbt | it's being worked on | 10:58 |
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| lbt | by the guys who are involved in garage.maemo.org | 10:59 |
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| lbt | I've pointed them at the various resources | 10:59 |
| djszapi | k, good, let me know if I can help with anything. | 10:59 |
| lbt | and we've discussed how to sit it behind the OBS API | 10:59 |
| doom | Hi, Is there any way to set up development environmant in Windows? | 10:59 |
| lbt | all powerpoint-design at the moment | 11:00 |
| djszapi | doom: mingw ? | 11:00 |
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| lbt | djszapi: maybe reply to the oldish mailing list thread to say that | 11:00 |
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| kt_ | I have a kernel question. What I wanted to accomplish: Make jack sensing/detection possible in meego with my Intel HDA 82801g (codec Realtek ALC272X). What I did: The newest code in git at kernel.org supports jack sensing for this sound card. Therefore I took kernel 2.6.35 (git clone git://gitorius.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source.git) and replaced the patch_realtek.c with the newest one from kernel git and set CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_JACK=y. The kernel compiled, i | 11:03 |
| kt_ | got a rpm package and I have installed the new kernel. The outcome: Now I assumed the support was in the kernel but no new jack device has shown up in /dev/inputs/eventX. | 11:03 |
| kt_ | I want to know if there is something else I need to know? | 11:03 |
| kt_ | (In order to activate jack sensing) | 11:04 |
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| lbt | kt_: udev rules? | 11:07 |
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| kt_ | lbt, should I look in /etc/udev/rules.d/? | 11:11 |
| * lbt not an expert but I wouldn't be surprised if MeeGo udev was minimised | 11:11 | |
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| lbt | auke may know if he's not busy | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | or asleep | 11:14 |
| lbt | he sleeps? I thought he was one of us? | 11:14 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:15 |
| Jani__ | Hi again, another try with the video driver question, hopefully with less computer crashes this time | 11:15 |
| kt_ | lbt, ok, if i look at the rules on my ubuntu pc (where jack sensing is working) i only see one related to cd loading and one related to ethernet. On the meego pc there are more rules but non of them seems to be related to the sound card | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | Jani__: we never saw your question :) | 11:16 |
| Jani__ | So, basically what I'm wondering is why several video output drivers are missing from the Meego release 1.1, which were present in version 1.0 (like the x11) | 11:16 |
| Jani__ | ? | 11:17 |
| Jani__ | I know, My computer crashed while typing it:) | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | afaik things haven't been removed, but the images themsleves might be been trimmed | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | what are you missing? | 11:17 |
| Jani__ | I'm trying to get mplayer working in Meego | 11:18 |
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| Jani__ | I was able to do that with the 1.0, with the x11 driver, but in 1.1 there are only the fbdev and fbdev2 drivers, which do not seem to work in my setup | 11:19 |
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| Stskeeps | what gfx card? | 11:22 |
| Jani__ | My PC has ati radeon 3450 | 11:23 |
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| Jani__ | The list of drivers I get with mplayer -vo help is similar inside the chroot in my pc as in n900 running meego 1.1, both are missing the x11 driver | 11:25 |
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| Jani__ | however, in 1.0 chroot, the drivers are there | 11:25 |
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| Jani__ | in the same pc hardware, only different image | 11:26 |
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| kt_ | lbt, could it be that when I run rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec multiple times some of the code is not rebuild from time to time. Do I need to do something like rpmbuild -ba --rebuild|--recompile kernel.spec instead? | 11:41 |
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| tekojo | Stskeeps: do you think it would be possible to switch the conference presentations by me and X-Fade & lbt around? | 13:19 |
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| Stskeeps | tekojo: sec | 13:25 |
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| tekojo | Stskeeps: we are all in the afternoon on Day 2, and it makes more sense to have my high level view and then look at the details | 13:26 |
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| kt_ | When doing git clone git://gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source.git you get the meego kernel patches to the 2.6.35.3 and the kernel.spec files so that you can build the kernel by writing rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec. The actual Linux kernel source code is nowhere to be found - is it downloaded when building the package? | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | srpmss has that | 13:30 |
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| kt_ | ehm, in kernel.spec it says: Source0: ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-%{kversion}.tar.bz2 so i guess it downloads the kernel. | 13:33 |
| kt_ | I need to change one of the kernel files (a fast hack without having to write a patch) | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | or download it manually | 13:34 |
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| kt_ | Stskeeps, is the kernel.spec script so intelligent that I can write Source0: linux-%{kversion}.tar.bz2 (local version) instead of Source0: ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-%{kversion}.tar.bz2 ? | 13:35 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: I'm OK with the switch | 13:36 |
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| tekojo | here we are | 13:50 |
| tekojo | ping lbt X-Fade | 13:51 |
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| lbt | png | 13:51 |
| * CosmoHill offers tekojo, lbt, X-Fade and Stskeeps tea | 13:51 | |
| tekojo | thanks CosmoHill! that is needed, woke at 5:00 local time | 13:51 |
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| CosmoHill | there's a 5am? | 13:51 |
| lbt | tea! Do you think I'm british or something? | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i guess you might be partially finnish by now | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:52 |
| tekojo | anyway npattipati we started looking at the conference schedule and topics | 13:52 |
| tekojo | CosmoHill: coming to Oulu means an early wake up | 13:52 |
| lbt | kitos Stskeeps | 13:52 |
| CosmoHill | tekojo: and then on to frankfurt? | 13:52 |
| tekojo | CosmoHill: no, back home to Helsinki in the evening :) | 13:53 |
| X-Fade | CosmoHill: Tea was cold when it finally reached me. | 13:53 |
| npattipati | tekojo: ok.. any changes ? :) | 13:53 |
| CosmoHill | it's an ice tea? | 13:53 |
| CosmoHill | >.> | 13:53 |
| tekojo | but the presentation topics could do with a bit of clarification :) | 13:53 |
| lbt | npattipati: I think tekojo, me+ X-Fade and then you may make a better running order | 13:54 |
| tekojo | npattipati: your topic really sounds like it covers a lot | 13:54 |
| tekojo | so I was wondering where your focus is | 13:54 |
| tekojo | or is it a really high level overview? | 13:54 |
| npattipati | tekojo: my focus is app developers. | 13:54 |
| tekojo | in general? OSS and commercial or no difference? | 13:55 |
| npattipati | tekojo: dev environment for app developers | 13:55 |
| npattipati | in general | 13:55 |
| lbt | npattipati: so the OBS is crucial ? | 13:55 |
| tekojo | so overview of all the tools and places available? | 13:56 |
| npattipati | lbt: well... no.. i will just be pointing to the OBS... in one slide. | 13:56 |
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| tekojo | then it might make most sense to go: npattipati, me, lbt and X-Fade | 13:56 |
| npattipati | tekojo: yes.. mostly giving intro to what we have in place for app developers and what are the gaps... and some ideas to better the environment for app developers | 13:57 |
| lbt | yes | 13:57 |
| CosmoHill | I hope this doesn't turn into my monday's lectures where people's brains are frazzled by the time they get to X-Fade | 13:57 |
| lbt | npattipati: we'd also like to emphasis the ease of entry with OBS ... "install osc and run osc build" (for linux users) | 13:58 |
| CosmoHill | speaking of presentations I really should finish my own | 13:58 |
| tekojo | npattipati: can you look me up in the Nokia phonebook and send a reminder for me to send you my slides? | 13:58 |
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| npattipati | lbt: sure.. i will mention this point. | 13:59 |
| lbt | tekojo: so .... npattipati, you, us or maybe you, npattipati, us | 13:59 |
| CosmoHill | would you guys mind sticking to the third person, it makes it easier to understand then | 14:00 |
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| tekojo | lbt: to me it sounds npattipati, me, you | 14:02 |
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| lbt | that'd work ... I felt yours was the most e2e and goal-oriented... and step 1 in yours is "who writes an app".... which is where npattipati comes in | 14:05 |
| lbt | which would be nice if our slide sets blended | 14:05 |
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| lbt | X-Fade: your opinion ? | 14:06 |
| CosmoHill | how bad is it that my desktop can't play a video in a powerpoint? | 14:06 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, it will be worse on april 1st :P | 14:10 |
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| npattipati | lbt, tekojo : so, will you be communicating the session schedule change? | 14:21 |
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| tekojo | lbt: sorry, IRL meeting bugged in there | 14:29 |
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| tekojo | CosmoHill: video in a ppt? what was in that tea... | 14:29 |
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| CosmoHill | hehe | 14:30 |
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| CosmoHill | the alternative is that we jump out of the presentation, into movie player and then back into the presentation | 14:30 |
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| tekojo | CosmoHill: risky, means you plug your own machine to the system | 14:31 |
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| CosmoHill | the presentation and video can be ran of any computer or usb | 14:31 |
| tekojo | but I guess that is the way to do it, or have there been any guidelines to presenters? | 14:31 |
| tekojo | oooh, portable technology :) | 14:31 |
| CosmoHill | fyi this presentation is for uni | 14:31 |
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| tekojo | ah, then it isn't so risky, it's only about grades :) | 14:32 |
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| CosmoHill | damn powerpoint | 14:33 |
| CosmoHill | "can't find file C:/users/jonathan etc" | 14:33 |
| CosmoHill | maybe cause you're on a mac! | 14:33 |
| Termana | CosmoHill, silly boy. You should be on Linux and using OO.o Presentation! Then you wouldn't have silly problems! :p | 14:34 |
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| Termana | CosmoHill, but I guess you GNU that | 14:35 |
| Termana | ;) | 14:35 |
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| CosmoHill | lol | 14:35 |
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| niala | hello | 14:46 |
| mrcerulean | Hello, all. Any notes on installing the Google Video and Voice plugin? It needs libcrypto... | 14:46 |
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| lbt | Termana: you mean LO.o Presentation.... | 14:47 |
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| Termana | lbt, :p | 14:48 |
| lbt | <sigh> these proprietary people | 14:48 |
| Termana | lbt, OF COURSE THAT'S WHAT I MEANT!!111!! You'll have to forgive me, I *COUGH* blame it on the fact that it's late | 14:48 |
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| lbt | FOSS ? late! never!!! | 14:49 |
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| pupnik_ | !news | 14:55 |
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| CosmoHill | crap: http://trac.cross-lfs.org/report/1 | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, why'd you leave #maemo? :P | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: place had started to turn toxix/already did | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | toxic, that is | 15:25 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You are still on t.m.o though? | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | not really | 15:25 |
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| Stskeeps | post in some few threads | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: sic transit, etc =) | 15:26 |
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| Myrtti | Recently it's become counterproductive really (#maemo) | 15:29 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Not surprising at all | 15:31 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: With Nokia developers losing any interest in Maemo, all that is left are lemmings and a really few third party developers | 15:32 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: I don't know about their motivation for staying on the channel but judging from the discussions it felt like either everyone is on acid or mushrooms, or is having murderous intents | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Scary =) | 15:34 |
| Myrtti | I did mention that couple of times, it was getting really hard to follow any meaningful conversation with the S/N ratio | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Well, if by "meaningful" you mean "meego/maemo-related", there have not been many topics to discuss lately | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I mean, between murderous intents and the endless discussion of how PR1.3 "sucks", I will take murder any time :) | 15:36 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: even embedded linux or linux or open source would've sufficed | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: That's easy to achieve. Wait for Paul Fertser, then ask him why he responds to his phone calls from emacs | 15:36 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: why bother, I left the channel few hours before Stskeeps did | 15:37 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Except that FOSS discussion is kinda boring | 15:37 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Dunno, I mainly stay for the people | 15:37 |
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| Myrtti | I realised the people I valued the most are/were here... | 15:38 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: When they go, I go. But as long as people I am interested to speak with stay, I stay | 15:38 |
| Myrtti | I've pruned my IRC usage lately anyway | 15:39 |
| Myrtti | but to everyone to their tastes | 15:39 |
| RST38h | "screen" utility is the answer :) | 15:40 |
| RST38h | (I guess the next step is to make a bot to impersonate oneself...) | 15:40 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: I've used screen with my irssi since 2003... | 15:40 |
| Myrtti | and a bouncer before that | 15:40 |
| lcuk | RST38h, you make an arse of yourself often enough people wouldn't notice if you were replaced by a bot :P | 15:41 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh, I can make a nice, positive bot too :) | 15:41 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 15:42 |
| sivang | #maemo is actually a nice place to be, I got my birthday there on the topic a few days ago :) | 15:42 |
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| lcuk | :D | 15:42 |
| RST38h | Except that the actual topic of #maemo is...well...Maemo | 15:42 |
| Myrtti | sivang: QED - there's no relevant discussion there left | 15:42 |
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| sivang | and, there are some rather very interesting discussion and true handons stuff going on- | 15:42 |
| sivang | you just need to pay attention to this moments. | 15:43 |
| Myrtti | "congratulations, you, Sir, have won the Internets!" | 15:43 |
| sivang | for developing an app it can be quite a helpful place :-) | 15:43 |
| RST38h | "...the end boss was tough!" | 15:43 |
| sivang | Myrtti: hehe | 15:43 |
| Myrtti | sivang: I did find the discussion of North Korean currency usage in purchasing communist hamburgers and the royalist aspirations of the French republic very interesting... | 15:44 |
| Myrtti | yes... | 15:44 |
| Myrtti | very. | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Me too. Seriously. | 15:44 |
| Myrtti | not quite sure how they relate to Maemo, but what the hell | 15:44 |
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| sivang | Myrtti: I actually found some interesting dicussion about controlling stuff through the dbus api | 15:44 |
| RST38h | (and why the hell not) | 15:44 |
| sivang | Myrtti: about performance, about opengles etc | 15:44 |
| sivang | and , usb host mode ! :-D | 15:45 |
| Myrtti | great! | 15:45 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Actually, I have to admit that I got more useful help with Qt usage on #maemo than on #meego | 15:45 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: I'm not surprised | 15:45 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: then again, I'm not surprised by a lot of things these days | 15:45 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Also tried some qt-specific channel, got a lecture in OO-design there, left unsatisfied :) | 15:46 |
| sivang | in meego everybody is busy with the releases and in justice, Maemo is the playground and like more relaxed for people new for the ecosystem so far. | 15:46 |
| Myrtti | to most things my initial reaction seems to be "that's nice, dear. Would you like some more tea?" | 15:46 |
| sivang | Myrtti: Sri Lankian tea? | 15:46 |
| RST38h | (*special* tea?_ | 15:46 |
| sivang | yeah, all over from Sri Lanka | 15:46 |
| leinir | Ah yes, the meego conference early bird sessions... is there a confirmed site for them yet? because the wiki page still says "Yeah, dunno" ;) | 15:47 |
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| Myrtti | leinir: there was some discussion on the mailing list | 15:47 |
| sivang | leinir: I was just going to say that I got infected with your sense of satisfaction, hanging out together and so, finding #maemo a nice place to b. | 15:47 |
| * sivang digs the MLs | 15:48 | |
| Myrtti | now if I'd only remember which mailing list | 15:48 |
| Myrtti | might have actually been the maemo ones | 15:48 |
| sivang | leinir: ballsbridge inn | 15:48 |
| sivang | leinir: where the hackspace | 15:49 |
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| leinir | Right... i'm working, but... wikify it? ;) | 15:49 |
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| Myrtti | leinir: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-November/004576.html | 15:49 |
| sivang | leinir: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/63785 | 15:50 |
| sivang | Myrtti: ah! | 15:50 |
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| sivang | Myrtti: :) | 15:50 |
| leinir | Aah, that'd be the base issue, then, i guess :) Meego conference topics discussed outside meego mailing lists - it'd be kind of nice if that had been at least CCed ;) | 15:50 |
| leinir | Thanks! :) | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | leinir: I was wondering about that this morning when I read the email chain, myself | 15:51 |
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| sivang | Myrtti: what would have we done without Maemo? :) | 15:51 |
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| javispedro | btw, seems that Meego is going to repeat the same issue Maemo has (when the clock application is not in the foreground, it skips refreshing, so the task manager's view of it gets outdated) | 15:51 |
| Myrtti | sivang: I'm not questioning maemo, I'm questioning the status quo of the IRC channel | 15:52 |
| dwmw2_ | javispedro: what bug number? | 15:52 |
| lcuk | no javispedro | 15:52 |
| sivang | Myrtti: I see, noted. | 15:52 |
| lcuk | this time its easier for people to submit patch/mr for it :) | 15:52 |
| javispedro | lcuk: what's been done? I still see only one generic focus-out event? | 15:52 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: The problem, on Maemo, was that "visible" couldn't easily include "in thumbnail view" :-/ | 15:52 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: and a recent ML post about "display-off" being the same as the "defocused" event makes me think that is the case in handset too. | 15:54 |
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| javispedro | most applications will just stop refreshing on the combined defocus/displayoff event. | 15:54 |
| javispedro | and so the problem manifests again... | 15:54 |
| sivang | javispedro: so when the clock app is showing the time, on task switcher view, it does not get updated as expected in normal linux compositing manager on the desktop? | 15:55 |
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| borco | hi | 15:55 |
| borco | anybody using mad on opensuse? | 15:55 |
| javispedro | dwmw2_: can't find at bmo at the moment, sorry. | 15:56 |
| javispedro | sivang: the issue here is that desktop apps do not usually stop refreshing when they're out of focus | 15:56 |
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| javispedro | sivang: while your average Maemo app does, to save cycles / battery. | 15:56 |
| sivang | javispedro: IIRC the h-a-m continues, right? | 15:57 |
| leinir | It's also one of the things highlighted in the CuteHacks post on building mobile-friendly apps... don't update when you're not active | 15:57 |
| javispedro | sivang: what do you mean? | 15:57 |
| sivang | javispedro: I did a couple of tests making sure progress is maintained when I step out of the app in task switching | 15:57 |
| javispedro | sivang: ah. | 15:58 |
| borco | i've installed the meego-sdk with zypper and then meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime, but when I try to poweron it on, nothing happens. any ideas? | 15:58 |
| sivang | javispedro: let me check again, I think some apps do update and some not | 15:58 |
| javispedro | sivang: yes, it's left to the app to decide that. | 15:58 |
| berndhs | leinir:thats nice but basing it on focus is not a great idea | 15:58 |
| sivang | javispedro: so it is just a fix of the app then? | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | sivang: For example, Attitude stops on focus-out and display lock | 15:58 |
| borco | this is on opensuse 11.3 x86_64. do i need to install the 32bit version of opensuse? | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | sivang: But apps can't tell when they're visible in the dashboard, so they just know they're not the main focused app, so stop updating. | 15:59 |
| leinir | *nods* Indeed - you can do that for Symbian (because of its strict multitasking system), but on e.g. maemo and meego, that doesn't quite work like that... apps need to keep updating when in /view/, not when they're active... but that's not entirely trivial to figure out. | 15:59 |
| leinir | It is, however, something which QtMobility might want to supply information about... centralising that information... seeing as it's something that everybody's going to need ;) | 15:59 |
| javispedro | sivang: you could make all the apps keep on redrawing while out of focus, but then for games or other heavy stuff battery would suffer. | 16:00 |
| javispedro | btw, what the WebOS does here is what I've suggested sometimes: there's an special event that is roughly equivalent to | 16:00 |
| javispedro | "i know you're out of focus, but I need you to redraw RIGHT NOW because I'm going to start the task manager" | 16:00 |
| berndhs | right , it would be nice if an app could actually tell if it is visible or not | 16:00 |
| leinir | berndhs: *nods* Yeah... :) | 16:00 |
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| javispedro | their SDL library maps it neatly to a SDL_VIDEOEXPOSE :) | 16:00 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Sounds like an appropriate event name ;-) | 16:01 |
| leinir | Actually, i keep thinking that QtMobility is a very ill-named library... Most of the stuff in there is really workspace integration rather than anything particularly mobile-unit specific ;) | 16:01 |
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| Jaffa | leinir: Indeed. Takes some mental contortions for me to justify it in Netbook | 16:02 |
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| sivang | I smeel a feature request | 16:02 |
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| sivang | so , waht we want is to know when we're visible, that would cater for both use cases | 16:03 |
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| Termana | sivang, what do you use to do that? | 16:03 |
| sivang | 1) in task switching | 16:03 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, so your net book isn't mobile? | 16:03 |
| sivang | Termana: ah! magic | 16:03 |
| lcuk | :P | 16:03 |
| sivang | :-) | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Might not be ;-p | 16:03 |
| sivang | Termana: and it is not going to be the first time I used it | 16:03 |
| sivang | Termana: bugzilla's futurzilla | 16:03 |
| lcuk | yeah my phone sits on the table occasionally too | 16:03 |
| Termana | sivang, actually I meant what do you use to smeel | 16:03 |
| Termana | :P | 16:03 |
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| sivang | Termana: HAHA | 16:03 |
| sivang | Termana: was a good one | 16:04 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: My netbook stays in the house 99.99% of the time. Won't be coming to Dublin either | 16:04 |
| Termana | Jaffa, who needs a netbook when you have an N900! | 16:05 |
| Termana | :p | 16:05 |
| Jaffa | Termana: Something like that ;-) | 16:05 |
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| RST38h | Termana: There are real, non-Atom subnotebooks that are lighter than some netbooks | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | Termana: Actually, my new work laptop's lighter than my netbook - and although it's a shitty Dell with a crappy CPU, it's better than my Aspire One. | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: The Lenovo X201s looked particularly good; though we've gone for Dell and I've got an E4200 | 16:07 |
| leinir | my new laptop will, most likely, not arrive in time for dublin... oh well | 16:07 |
| Termana | RST38h, still, I honestly prefer an N900 over a netbook or even in some cases a laptop | 16:07 |
| Termana | Personally, I just like that fact that I can shove a linux computer in my pocket and be anywhere with it. Its kind of a novelty thing :p | 16:08 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: There is MacBook Air, Lenovo X-series, Toshiba R-series, etc | 16:08 |
| RST38h | Termana: I do work on my subnotebook. N900 is too small for that, and too slow. | 16:08 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Just read Ars' review of the 11" MBA, and it came across well. | 16:10 |
| GAN900 | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information | 16:10 |
| GAN900 | If you haven't put your info up. . . . | 16:10 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, too bad it's so expensive. | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | did we post it on forums/meego-community/dev yet? | 16:10 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, I haven't. | 16:11 |
| * Jaffa hasn't seen that on twitter or MLs. | 16:11 | |
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| Jaffa | Now on Twitter ;-) | 16:11 |
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| leinir | Jaffa: and identi.ca ;) | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Stskeeps: Probably could do with some context on standardising order and format (I like the Jaffa/Stskeeps/lm/leinir one) | 16:15 |
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| Ronksu | Is the flight information just for figuring out if you can share a ride from the airport, or for figuring out where all the missing presenters are? A few words on that might be a good idea. | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | Anyone know what the N900 calendar does if you import events which already exist into the same calendar again? (e.g. from Uwe's ICS file) | 16:17 |
| thiago | Jaffa: first of all, how did you manage to import a calendar? | 16:17 |
| thiago | :-) | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | thiago: Click on HTTP link. Calendar opens. Asks which local calendar I want to import into. Imports. | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | thiago: No sync, of course :-( | 16:18 |
| thiago | interesting | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | Ronksu: well, grouping up isn't a bad idea usually | 16:18 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: For me, it created a second event | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | If that's DBus exposed, having a "delete all entries and regularly download & import" would be good | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: So, name of game is delete calendar, recreate & re-import. | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I'll confirm your experience first off | 16:18 |
| GAN900 | Ronksu, always nice to have a group to help make transit easier. | 16:19 |
| Ronksu | Stskeeps, GAN900: sure thing. There's bound to always be a few people heading for the conference in the same plane | 16:20 |
| Ronksu | just curious if this was for something grander :) | 16:20 |
| sivang | Jaffa: so we need an event to know when we're going to be visible ? | 16:20 |
| sivang | Jaffa: are we sure there no such support somewhere undocumented already? | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | sivang: The problem is that the dashboard is entirely done by the compositor AFAIK, so no Gtk+ events or anything | 16:21 |
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| lcuk | no toolkit events * | 16:22 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Well, there might've been something X11ey which something could expose | 16:22 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I didn't get duplicated events, just the new early bird ones added. | 16:23 |
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| sivang | Jaffa, lcuk : but nothing wraps it out for great good? | 16:23 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, wtf @ your tweet? | 16:23 |
| sivang | this really should come through Qt, there's not much apps in the wild today that run in the absence of a task switcher/ manager | 16:24 |
| sivang | or if not mature to go there, into MTF right? | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | sivang: I've no idea if there *is* an X11 event... | 16:24 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: hm? | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | sivang: But agree on it being exposed via Qt | 16:24 |
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| sivang | Jaffa: oh :o | 16:24 |
| sivang | saidinesh: hello there :) | 16:24 |
| saidinesh | hey sivang | 16:25 |
| saidinesh | hi | 16:25 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: haven't you heard, apparently there's a student demonstration going on, the Canonical offices are in the building | 16:25 |
| thiago | sivang: there should be X events | 16:25 |
| thiago | minimise and maximise | 16:25 |
| thiago | focus lost and gained | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: is someone burning down Canonical for going with Unity or something? | 16:25 |
| sivang | thiago: I know for sure there are focus lost/gained, but that does not help to "guess" if we're visible or not. | 16:25 |
| lcuk | thiago, the conflict here is that an app which listens for all those will get out of sync when its viewed on the dashboard screen | 16:26 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: has nothing to do with Canonical, it's Canonical employee's inside joke | 16:26 |
| lcuk | like the clock not updating etc | 16:26 |
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| sivang | thiago: I mean, I can be outof focus, still be at the dashboard and need to update | 16:26 |
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| lcuk | thiago, it was the same on maemo too, noticable for apps which actually do honour those events | 16:27 |
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| sivang | thiago: so maybe the dashboard supplied a dbus event for that, hackish since it can't probably be standartized for qt | 16:29 |
| sivang | *supplies | 16:29 |
| * thiago is actually wondering what the dashboard is | 16:29 | |
| sivang | thiago: when you press the task switcher button, in maemo I guess it is hildon-desktop ? | 16:29 |
| lcuk | the app overview screen when apps are panned to background | 16:29 |
| sivang | thiago: you see all running tasks | 16:29 |
| sivang | thiago: all running apps, sorry | 16:30 |
| thiago | right, the task switcher | 16:30 |
| thiago | then all windows become visible again | 16:30 |
| thiago | it's up to WM to do that and the compositor for drawing | 16:30 |
| sivang | right, so not really the concern of X | 16:30 |
| thiago | right, not of X | 16:30 |
| thiago | just the WM and compositor | 16:31 |
| sivang | the X event is more lowlevel in my understanding and irrelvant here | 16:31 |
| thiago | if it doesn't minimise the windows when they are not shown, then they'll continue painting | 16:31 |
| sivang | yep | 16:31 |
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| sivang | mairas: will you be in dublin? | 16:31 |
| sivang | mairas: (hi btw) | 16:31 |
| tackat | hi | 16:34 |
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| tackat | where can I download slide templates for the MeeGo conf? | 16:34 |
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| sivang | tackat: there are on the conf site, go to your talk | 16:36 |
| sivang | tackat: there you have on the left side down, links to download the templates | 16:36 |
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| tackat | sivang: thanks :) | 16:38 |
| sivang | tackat: you are welcome | 16:38 |
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| mairas | sivang, hi, yes, I'll be in Dublin. | 16:40 |
| sivang | mairas: nice, giving a pyside talk with setanta ? | 16:42 |
| mairas | notmart, it's setanta's talk | 16:43 |
| notmart | mairas: uh? | 16:44 |
| mairas | sorry, sivang :-) | 16:44 |
| mairas | notmart, I'm as confused as you are | 16:45 |
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| javispedro | thiago: unfortunately, on a mobile context applications are suggested to stop drawing when they get a focus lost event. | 16:52 |
| thiago | which is why that event should be sent | 16:52 |
| thiago | failure to send is a problem of the WM | 16:52 |
| javispedro | don't ask me why, but someone in Nokia at least thought that having the clock application keep on drawing when it is defocused was a waste of tme :) | 16:52 |
| thiago | the WM is a platform tool, therefore the battery consumption resulting from the failure to send the event is a fault of the platform | 16:53 |
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| javispedro | thiago: oh no, it's not that. the event is sent fine. | 16:53 |
| javispedro | thiago: issue is that this means that the compositor view of the application gets outdated | 16:53 |
| javispedro | same as if it was minimized on a desktop | 16:53 |
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| javispedro | you have a webpage? it's thumbnail won't change, even if there are more news/dynamic tweets/etc | 16:54 |
| sivang | javispedro: which event is it? | 16:54 |
| javispedro | you have clock application? time gets outdated | 16:54 |
| sivang | javispedro: then the event is dispatched wrongly. There should be an event for when you are visible or not, and act upon that. | 16:55 |
| javispedro | sivang: the event is, from a Qt PoV, "QFocusEvent" | 16:56 |
| javispedro | I do not remember the actual X11 event name off hand | 16:56 |
| sivang | javispedro: right lost focus is not right here for redrawl pruposes | 16:56 |
| sivang | javispedro: it is good for releasing cursors, input field focus etc | 16:57 |
| javispedro | so guidelines should suggest not stopping redrawing when you're out of focus, and instead suggest stopping drawing when you get some kind of "lost visibility" event | 16:57 |
| javispedro | and the "display-off" event should be mapped to this new event | 16:57 |
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| javispedro | this would break apps everywhere, so I guess it's too late to fix already :( | 16:58 |
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| GAN900 | Oof | 16:58 |
| GAN900 | On the same slight as sjgadsby. | 16:59 |
| javispedro | oh, seems X11 actually has an existing "visibility" event ( http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/events/window-state-change/visibility.html ). I wonder what event does Qt map it to. | 16:59 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: sleigh or flight? :P | 16:59 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, with sjgadsby? It's probably a sleigh. | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | is it just me or is nokia in the press every second day, at least? | 17:00 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: You are reading the wrong news | 17:00 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, still doing worse than Apple. | 17:01 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: In my news, there are 12 people (4 kids) killed by some bandits in south .RU | 17:01 |
| GAN900 | Bandits? | 17:01 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Some local mafia, the police is still figuring out details | 17:02 |
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| lcuk | :S | 17:03 |
| Bostik | usually the difference between mafia and police is nothing more than that the mafia do not have badges | 17:03 |
| RST38h | No, body counts are smaller for police. | 17:04 |
| Bostik | good point | 17:04 |
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| RST38h | But anyway, it is offtopic, Myrtti will be angry at me | 17:04 |
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| Stskeeps | NishanthMenon: how's the fedora adventures going? | 17:07 |
| NishanthMenon | Stskeeps, it is fun with virtualbox ;) | 17:07 |
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| NishanthMenon | Stskeeps, fedora is long way different from Redhat 5.1 which I had used last -> but seems to create mic images way better than my ubuntu box ;) | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 17:08 |
| NishanthMenon | funny though when i tried all available rpms- the opensuse worked out of the box on fedora | 17:09 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: want some soup? lovely chicken soup | 17:09 |
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| Stskeeps | i've spent time building rpms under debian for meego, that was a bad idea.. so many soname differences | 17:09 |
| NishanthMenon | yep... | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | at least the qemu-arm is a nice static binary | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:10 |
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| * NishanthMenon liked it | 17:10 | |
| * NishanthMenon should try brtfs on panda sometime | 17:12 | |
| Stskeeps | you'll be in for a whole new set of fun problems :) | 17:13 |
| NishanthMenon | Stskeeps, yeah - but I am curious - i'd like to run bonnie++ on ext3, ext4 and brtfs and see if there is any performance diff for MMC cards ;) | 17:14 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: wouldn't mind :) | 17:14 |
| NishanthMenon | mebbe around the weekend | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Stskeeps: leinir:Note structure of http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information has got a bit nicer and your old entries are invalidated | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: arr. | 17:15 |
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| * Myrtti scoops a bowl of spicy Tom Yum Gai for RST38h | 17:15 | |
| * leinir edits... | 17:16 | |
| lcuk | Jaffa, the old list had more info | 17:16 |
| lcuk | it actually let you know where people were coming from also | 17:16 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, bastard. | 17:17 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Indeed. | 17:17 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Not me. | 17:17 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: I just went to have a look, and it'd changed | 17:17 |
| * GAN900 will fix it at lunch. | 17:17 | |
| thp | lcuk: you can add this info to the new table as well. the old list made it difficult to spot people coming in at the same time as you :) | 17:19 |
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| lcuk | thp, sure | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | the new one is better being ordered by time of course | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | but for helping to know who is coming from same place/flight etc | 17:21 |
| thp | lcuk: that's what the "Means of transport" columns is for | 17:22 |
| thp | the new tables are just copied from the maemo summit 09 wiki page ;) | 17:22 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: And if two entries are the same time, and list the same flight number and the same origin, then requirement met, no? | 17:22 |
| Termana | thp, you can't escape wiki history | 17:22 |
| Termana | If you do something no one likes, we can finger the person who did it! | 17:22 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, sure i know, just saying it as I saw it | 17:22 |
| Termana | :p | 17:22 |
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| fiferboy | Whoever fixed the flight information did a good job | 17:33 |
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| sivang | anybody coming from Heathrow? | 17:37 |
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| thp | sivang: yes.. on saturday | 17:40 |
| sivang | thp: ah , then we might be on the same flight to Dublin | 17:40 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: Thanks for defending my original attempt at the flight information :) | 17:41 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, thanks for starting the page to actually get the discussion moving in the first place :P | 17:43 |
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| * lcuk should put his flight times on the board | 17:46 | |
| Mat_Matan | hi | 17:46 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I was noticing your info wasn't there... | 17:48 |
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| sivang | thp: when are you arriving at Dulbin? | 17:48 |
| sivang | thp: or Dublin | 17:48 |
| sivang | :) | 17:48 |
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| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information | 17:51 |
| lcuk | sivang, look | 17:51 |
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| thp | sivang: did you check the wiki pag? | 17:58 |
| thp | "page" | 17:58 |
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| sivang | thp: yes, I think I am arriving earlier which makes sense only if you arrive with a different airliner | 17:58 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, clearly we'll need to plan a public transit adventure. | 18:06 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, as long as the trains have drivers, I am ok with that! | 18:07 |
| fiferboy | Speaking of transit, does anyone know the easiest way from the airport to the D4 hotels? | 18:08 |
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| GAN900 | fiferboy, think the conclusions involved a couple of bus changes. | 18:09 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders being lazy and just taking aircoach, to get from A to B. | 18:09 | |
| Stskeeps | and from B to A in the early of the morning thursday | 18:09 |
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| GAN900 | It was fairly reasonable pricewise, wasn't it? | 18:10 |
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| Stskeeps | like 14 euro return, as far as i could see | 18:10 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, a handful of euro, IIRC | 18:10 |
| sivang | GAN900: pricier than bus stops | 18:11 |
| sivang | GAN900: which seemed rather easy given dave's instructions | 18:11 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, sure, but less stress. | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, your flight out is v early on thursday! | 18:11 |
| sivang | GAN900: stress? this is an English speaking country, try to reach the Dev days or the hostel in Munich, that's stress! :) | 18:12 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, handing a Google Maps printout to a cab driver at the airport in BCN worked pretty well. | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: only direct flight | 18:12 |
| sivang | GAN900: BCN ? | 18:12 |
| achipa | sivang: barcelona | 18:13 |
| sivang | achipa: ah | 18:13 |
| sivang | achipa: barcelona is very easy to get by, and people seem to know where you wanna go without much words | 18:13 |
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| fiferboy | It's only a 2.5 hour walk from the airport to the hotel... | 18:15 |
| * fcrozat will use aircoach too ;) | 18:16 | |
| lcuk | fiferboy, that of course is only true if you walk in the right direction. | 18:16 |
| fcrozat | it isn't that expensive, compared to "standard" bus | 18:16 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Very true. There is no guarantee of that | 18:17 |
| * lcuk has to find a way to MAN airport at 5am | 18:17 | |
| rauli | you are frodo and your wallet is the one ring when you enter the metro. keep it secret, keep it safe | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | .. what metro? | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:18 |
| lcuk | what wallet? | 18:18 |
| rauli | this insolence ruins my joke | 18:18 |
| Myrtti | talking of rings | 18:20 |
| lcuk | .. what joke? | 18:20 |
| Myrtti | it's pink and I want it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8087462/Pink-diamond-expected-to-fetch-24m.html | 18:20 |
| * Myrtti goes to write a letter to Santa | 18:20 | |
| sivang | rauli: what metor? | 18:21 |
| Myrtti | sivang: what iceberg? | 18:21 |
| Myrtti | bad joke-a-rama | 18:22 |
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| Stskeeps | it's TSG evening today? | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | where does time go.. | 18:23 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, n the conference site, there seems to be two ways to access user information | 18:26 |
| lcuk | http://conference2010.meego.com/people/dawnfoster | 18:26 |
| lcuk | http://conference2010.meego.com/people/stskeeps etc | 18:26 |
| lcuk | but i am not listed under that folder, i am however listed in the attending and stuff as: | 18:27 |
| lcuk | http://conference2010.meego.com/user/957 | 18:27 |
| lcuk | any idea why the difference? | 18:27 |
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| DawnFoster | lcuk: weird - not sure why. I'm guessing it's a bug somewhere in the user database | 18:28 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: as usual, I am *still* finalizing the TSG agenda despite starting the process more than 10 days ago :) | 18:29 |
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| * CosmoHill rages as his finished program no longer compiles | 18:31 | |
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| CosmoHill | damn thing, it works now that I use typedef but it worked for the last 30 mins without it too | 18:34 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: seems like rpmlint actually does not barf on com.meego.blah stuff | 18:53 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: com.meego is cbuild? | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: no, just testing out the dotted packagename | 18:54 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: :-> | 18:55 |
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| javispedro | dotted package names? Innovating as a distro, I see? :) | 18:55 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: compliance criteria | 18:56 |
| sivang | javispedro: yes, like java packages : | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | i thought it was hogwash for a while and it wouldn't wor | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:56 |
| javispedro | looks good to me. | 18:56 |
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| javispedro | as long as . is a valid character per rpm spec :) | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | well, our own packaging guidelines state it's not, but rpm doesn't kill itself over it | 18:57 |
| sivang | dots are legal chars in unix, so... | 18:57 |
| sivang | in unix filenames | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | at least it isn't :/s | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | er, :'s | 18:57 |
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| X-Fade | Yeah copying those files to windows is going to be fun. | 18:58 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: yes, like in git? | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: obs:P | 18:58 |
| sivang | ah right, obs | 18:58 |
| javispedro | well, windows only craps itself with filenames starting or ending with a dot | 18:58 |
| sivang | I did not decide whicho of them is more confusing | 18:58 |
| sivang | :-) | 18:59 |
| sivang | but it is onlu a matter of getting used to the tools | 18:59 |
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| thiago | hmm... intel renamed the Intel C++ Compiler to Intel C++ Composer XE | 19:17 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | c++ is evil | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | 'composer'? | 19:17 |
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| leinir | ooook? interesting choice there :) | 19:18 |
| thiago | yes | 19:18 |
| thiago | "Intel® C++ Composer XE 2011 for Linux* (formerly known as Intel C++ Compiler Professional Edition for Linux)" | 19:18 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, ping | 19:18 |
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| dm8tbr | lcuk: gaaaah! :( | 19:19 |
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| Stskeeps | what's wrong with that bot? | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | moz guys must really dislike c++ :) | 19:20 |
| thiago | that's why they built their browser with it | 19:21 |
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| Bostik | c++ ? | 19:24 |
| thiago | no bot | 19:25 |
| Bostik | ah, the bot left and I missed that | 19:25 |
| Bostik | but if all goes as planned, I'll have the first draft of mobility 1.1 rpm packaging ready tomorrow | 19:25 |
| tybollt | ~bitchslap | 19:25 |
| Bostik | then just port it to 1.1-release and see what happens | 19:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ? | 19:28 |
| * timeless_mbp is about to trigger a panic | 19:28 | |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp: Don't panic()! | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | must panic()! | 19:29 |
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| * lcuk calls forth the spirit gods and offers 300ma to resurrect Noobmonk3y | 19:33 | |
| * Noobmonk3y farts | 19:33 | |
| lcuk | its ALIVE! | 19:33 |
| * GAN900 may freeze to death in Dublin | 19:33 | |
| lcuk | GAN900, yes, you likely will | 19:33 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: now kill it quickly before it has gone out of hand | 19:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | brb 2 mins | 19:33 |
| GAN900 | That's about as cold as it ever gets in the winter here. | 19:35 |
| GAN900 | It's a good thing we've had a front moving through here over the past week. | 19:35 |
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| lbt | why can't I see the schedule on http://conference2010.meego.com/ | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | program -> | 19:41 |
| thiago | http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule | 19:41 |
| lbt | not good enough :) | 19:41 |
| lbt | (serious +ve feedback) | 19:42 |
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| lbt | nb the page title is "schedule" ... so I scanned the home page for that | 19:43 |
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| GAN900 | Lot of tracks | 19:44 |
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| Stskeeps | 1000 people :P | 19:45 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | and still we refused a large bunch of presentations | 19:45 |
| GAN900 | Gonna be a bit overwhelming | 19:45 |
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| GAN900 | Good argument for doing a smaller one in the Spring each year. | 19:46 |
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| Noobmonk3y | back :) | 19:46 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, logistically, a couple of smaller ones with specific focus would be good | 19:48 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 19:48 |
| GAN900 | BCN was a really nice format. | 19:48 |
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| * lcuk nods | 19:48 | |
| lcuk | i have spoke highly of that since the planning stages | 19:48 |
| andre__ | ...and finally in Dublin I can run into GAN900 :-D | 19:49 |
| lcuk | heh | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | andre__, we're probably not going to see eachother the whole week. | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | 1000 people and all. | 19:49 |
| andre__ | I also run into "my" people on Fosdem which has 5000 people. it always works somehow | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | andre__, thats because you don't watch where you are going :P | 19:50 |
| andre__ | lcuk: physical violence is part of the concept :-P | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | Ha | 19:51 |
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| lcuk | :D | 19:51 |
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| GAN900 | andre__, though there's an argument for organizing a ride to the airport Thursday morning if everything else fails. *g* | 19:51 |
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| Noobmonk3y | does anyone in here use Nokia QT SDK on windows 7 - and have qtmobility working? | 19:52 |
| andre__ | hehe | 19:52 |
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| Jaffa | Noobmonk3y: I've heard other people complain, but not tried it myself yet | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | Noobmonk3y, there's something flawed in your premise. :P | 19:54 |
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| * lcuk slaps Noobmonk3y, if you were using a real operating system none of this would happen anyway :P | 19:55 | |
| DrWilken | :) | 19:55 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, oh the irony. *g* | 19:56 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol v true lcuk ;) | 19:56 |
| lcuk | GAN900, shhhh | 19:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | Tis really odd, its just as though it is not recognising the qtmobility libraries | 19:57 |
| DrWilken | it's probably a *feature* | 19:58 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol DrWilken | 19:59 |
| DrWilken | stealthy libraries? | 19:59 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Thiago, I am a Qt-on-Symbian training as we speak. The trainers can't answer many audience questions about Qt-on-MeeGo. Who can I send people to? | 19:59 |
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| Noobmonk3y | way too stealthy for my liking | 19:59 |
| DrWilken | :) | 20:00 |
| thiago | Alison_Chaiken: what kind of questions? | 20:00 |
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| lcuk | Alison_Chaiken, send them to the meego conf :P | 20:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk: :P | 20:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | wouldnt the meego forums be a good start? | 20:01 |
| DrWilken | Alison_Chaiken: #qt ? | 20:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | #qt smells.......... | 20:01 |
| * thiago thinks #meego is a good channel for Qt-on-MeeGo discussions just as #qt is | 20:01 | |
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| lcuk | actually, #qt is very core qt desktop oriented from what i can gather Noobmonk3y :P | 20:01 |
| thiago | which is fine for MeeGo netbook | 20:02 |
| Alison_Chaiken | thiago, folks have questions about the Ovi store with MeeGo as well as questions about "Can I control the camera using Qt/MeeGo?", etc. | 20:02 |
| thiago | it just happens that #qt has existed for many years, long predating the Qt focus on mobile | 20:02 |
| lcuk | thiago, so in general is packaging the meego documented in same manner as the windows mac side? | 20:02 |
| thiago | Alison_Chaiken: well, there will be MeeGo training, so if those people need MeeGo answers, they need to find that traiining | 20:03 |
| lcuk | the syntax is completely wrong there, apologies | 20:03 |
| thiago | Alison_Chaiken: as for the ones on Mobility, yes, Mobility will come to MeeGo. Anything that is possible with the Qt API on Symbian should be possible on MeeGo too. Hopefully even better. | 20:03 |
| thiago | lcuk: sorry? | 20:03 |
| lcuk | thiago, the good guys in #qt are very oriented towards normal desktop side, i get the feeling they would move you on if we started talking specific requirements for even the netbook version | 20:05 |
| thiago | they'll need to adapt | 20:05 |
| thiago | nothing wrong with having specialised channels though | 20:05 |
| thiago | but for a generic one, I don't see anything wrong with bringing new stuff into #qt | 20:06 |
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| thiago | our stated goal is "Qt Everywhere", so there will be more than just desktop | 20:06 |
| DrWilken | How about #qt-mobility ? :) | 20:06 |
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| thiago | DrWilken: it exists | 20:06 |
| DrWilken | I know ;) | 20:06 |
| DrWilken | Just tried joining | 20:06 |
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| javispedro | do you still hate C++, _MeeGoBot_ ? | 20:09 |
| dm8tbr | now that hopefully was a) the right config file this time b) cured this particular problem | 20:09 |
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| dm8tbr | javispedro: I lobotomized that part :) | 20:09 |
| javispedro | I heard that the first time too =) | 20:10 |
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| javispedro | but clearly his hidden Skynet personality will eventually reactivate | 20:10 |
| dm8tbr | I spent some time in #meego-test with him | 20:10 |
| dm8tbr | to make sure it's really gone | 20:10 |
| javispedro | ... as I was saying, who could envision that robot rebellion starts by "I hate C++" in #meego! | 20:10 |
| dm8tbr | :D | 20:10 |
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| sivang | thiago: still thinking how to formulate the feature request for that event, given that X supports a visibility event but its interpretation is somewhat ambigious | 20:14 |
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| * GAN900 spots sivang's session in the schedule. | 20:18 | |
| thiago | do we have a TSG meeting today? | 20:18 |
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| Stskeeps | yes, seemingily | 20:18 |
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| thiago | then I need to go home | 20:22 |
| lcuk | thiago, have a good evening, and ta for answer i just got back \o | 20:23 |
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| DawnFoster | we do have a TSG | 20:23 |
| DawnFoster | I'm just finalizing the agenda | 20:23 |
| * thiago types "meego tsg meeting" in Google and sees an ad for the MeeGo Conf | 20:23 | |
| DawnFoster | TSG is at 20:00 UTC | 20:23 |
| thiago | ah, ok, TSG was adjusted for DST | 20:23 |
| DawnFoster | to make it at the normal time after factoring daylight savings | 20:23 |
| thiago | I have slightly more time | 20:23 |
| DawnFoster | exactly | 20:23 |
| thiago | it moves the meeting 1 or 2 hours for people in the Southern Hemisphere though :-) | 20:24 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?p=480159&posted=1#post480159 | 20:24 |
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| v-pv | DawnFoster: I happen to have couple of nomination proposals to TSG. do you think that those would still fit in? | 20:24 |
| v-pv | http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-11-09-14.31.html | 20:24 |
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| DawnFoster | v-pv: I think it's too late now. | 20:25 |
| v-pv | Yep, I though so | 20:25 |
| DawnFoster | v-pv: Imad / Valtteri need time in advance to review them | 20:25 |
| v-pv | Please take those into account for the nest one, ok? | 20:26 |
| DawnFoster | We'll put them as tentative for Dec 1 TSG | 20:26 |
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| v-pv | definetly, Valtteri and Imad knows the situation. This has just not been agenda :-( | 20:26 |
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| DawnFoster | v-pv: you need to email me all of the details - your minutes are missing things like last names, exact roles :) | 20:27 |
| v-pv | that's fine with me | 20:27 |
| * Stskeeps grabs a glass of wine - time to write slides! | 20:27 | |
| v-pv | Yep, I'll do that... | 20:27 |
| v-pv | You will get those tomorrow... | 20:28 |
| v-pv | Stskeeps: great idea... I'll do the same. | 20:29 |
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| veli | \o/ We have SDK: http://meego.com/community/blogs/veli/2010/meego-1.1-sdk-beta-release | 20:48 |
| leinir | wooh! \o/ | 20:49 |
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| MannyNS | veli: excellent. | 20:50 |
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| MannyNS | veli: does the SDK support ia32 platforms only? | 20:53 |
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| veli | it supports arm target too. | 20:54 |
| veli | but we don't have qemu-arm now.. | 20:54 |
| veli | DUIhome is crashing so we needed to postpone that. | 20:54 |
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| Stskeeps | well, you can deploy to a n900 if you have one and compile for meego arm i'd guess? | 20:55 |
| veli | But you can compile for arm and run it in n900 running meego image. | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | ah, question answered :) | 20:55 |
| veli | :) | 20:55 |
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| MannyNS | any plans for Meego supporting other architectures except arm and ia32? | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | MannyNS: well, noone else has done a port to anything else so far. i just spent a week porting to ARM hardfp, so i know what to advise people with | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | which is roughly along the lines of "find the sanest person you have and expect to have to deliver him to a mental institution afterwards when the porting is done | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | " | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 20:57 |
| MannyNS | wow | 20:58 |
| lbt | dl9pf_: done | 20:58 |
| MannyNS | :) | 20:58 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: YOu mean, Meego port is supposed to include MMS? =) | 20:58 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: ah, that explains the pink elephants you've been complaining about | 20:58 |
| Myrtti | and the head twitching | 20:58 |
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| lbt | Myrtti: nah, that was fremantle | 20:59 |
| Myrtti | omg, I just found Joe Hisaishi on Spotify | 20:59 |
| Myrtti | ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ | 20:59 |
| slonopotamus | -.- | 21:00 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: so, if mental hospitalization is for those that want to port it to a new (sub)architecture, then purgatory must be for those than want to port it to a new architecture... | 21:00 |
| javispedro | and hell for those that want to port it to a BIG ENDIAN architecture!! | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i couldn't reuse -any- arm binaries :P | 21:00 |
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| javispedro | :) | 21:01 |
| dl9pf_ | lbt: tnx | 21:01 |
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| lardman|home | ah, /me remembers the wonders of the Octave endianness checks using arrangement of fp numbers | 21:02 |
| MannyNS | so, hell seems to be my new place | 21:03 |
| javispedro | MannyNS: PPC? | 21:04 |
| MannyNS | no, try again | 21:04 |
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| Myrtti | slonopotamus: what? good music is good music, theme music from Nausicaä makes me shiver | 21:06 |
| javispedro | MannyNS: do tell? :D | 21:06 |
| slonopotamus | Myrtti: i doubt mp3s of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausicaa are available currently... | 21:11 |
| Myrtti | slonopotamus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film) | 21:12 |
| slonopotamus | :P | 21:12 |
| javispedro | MannyNS: either way, it must be doable. I'm just remembering the problems I had with amd64 a few months ago :) | 21:12 |
| javispedro | (and ofc amd64 is LE, only long/pointer size changes) | 21:12 |
| thiago_home | LP64 | 21:13 |
| javispedro | s/LE/LittleEndian | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | MannyNS: MIPS? | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:13 |
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| * thiago_home wonders about MeeGo for MIPS | 21:16 | |
| Stskeeps | according to some, some of them do have capable enough gfx | 21:17 |
| thiago_home | I've seen some with PowerVR | 21:17 |
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| javispedro | btw, wall plugs on ireland? | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | oh dear, i need to prep that | 21:20 |
| javispedro | me too... | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | it's UK style isn't it? | 21:20 |
| thiago_home | yes, UK style | 21:20 |
| thiago_home | Trolltech power plug adapters were part of the gift bag during Akademy 2006 in Dublin | 21:20 |
| javispedro | heh. | 21:21 |
| thiago_home | best gift ever | 21:21 |
| thiago_home | even though they are lethal | 21:21 |
| javispedro | 220V 50Hz at least? | 21:21 |
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| javispedro | hum.. seems so. | 21:22 |
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| * fiferboy thinks about taking the Qt Certification exam | 21:26 | |
| DawnFoster | The TSG starts in about 30 minutes in #meego-meeting | 21:28 |
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| DawnFoster | Agenda here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:28 |
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| DawnFoster | nothing like finalizing the agenda an hour before the meeting - like herding cats :) | 21:29 |
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| javispedro | today I saw a nice comic on the door of a professor I know, a conveyor belt with a big crushing machine on its end, with the word "DEADLINE" written on it. | 21:31 |
| javispedro | :) | 21:31 |
| DawnFoster | javispedro: that is exactly how I feel today :) | 21:31 |
| DawnFoster | between the TSG and all of the last minute conference prep ... | 21:31 |
| javispedro | :D | 21:32 |
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| sivang | GAN900: :) | 21:42 |
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| sivang | so, looks like I'm gonna be able to attend TSG | 21:44 |
| sivang | that takes place in 15 minutes from now? | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | right | 21:45 |
| sivang | great, although I still have that project I need to submit... bah :) | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | it's usually good for observing | 21:46 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: do you know if the SDK needs SSSE3 to do meego arm development? | 21:47 |
| * sivang is hunted with SSSE3 | 21:47 | |
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| * javispedro bought an intel cpu for these reasons not long ago... | 21:47 | |
| Stskeeps | sivang: unsure | 21:47 |
| sivang | javispedro: I have intel, just without SSSE3 | 21:47 |
| sivang | :/ | 21:47 |
| sivang | javispedro: I wonder if P4 from 2004 supports that | 21:48 |
| sivang | Hmm I See qt training offered by KDAB people on Sunday in Dublin | 21:48 |
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| javispedro | dunno, I was an amd guy :) | 21:48 |
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| * sivang tries to recall if he noted that on the agenda | 21:48 | |
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| sivang | yes, it is there, funny how I Never spotted it and found it through linked in. | 21:51 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: what do we define as our rpm upstream? whatever fedora has? | 21:54 |
| auke | nothing | 21:54 |
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| auke | we don't have an upstream | 21:54 |
| * auke smacks Stskeeps for asking that | 21:54 | |
| slaine | So we use the MeeGo version of rpm | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not talking about if we base off anything | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | i'm talking about 'rpm', the program :) | 21:55 |
| auke | oh | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | cos we're obviously not on rpm5 | 21:55 |
| auke | no, at this point we're maintaining a stable version of rpm4 ourselves | 21:55 |
| auke | obviously we'll take patches from other distro's, but we can't really say we're taking a version from some other distro | 21:56 |
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| qgil | We just had the MeeGo 1.1 SDK Beta release and apparently is confusing some people vs Nokia Qt SDK | 21:56 |
| fandeli | I've set this http://pastebin.ca/1987491 to use my proxy server in fennec, but it seems not working, am I missing some other config? I appreciate any help | 21:56 |
| auke | in what way? | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | reason i'm asking is because we'll need to add some rpmrc changes for the hardfp work (like 4-5 lines), so it matters in terms of upstream-first, hence me asking :) | 21:56 |
| qgil | Both SDKs are the same in terms of architecture, it's a matter of branding, targets predefined and testing against MeeGo releases vs Nokia products | 21:57 |
| auke | Stskeeps: I see | 21:57 |
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| auke | Stskeeps: can't give a clear cut answer on that, hardfp is probably very meego-specific | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | we'll basically be adding 'armv7hl' as an arch, so | 21:58 |
| auke | ok so | 21:58 |
| csdb | auke, Stskeeps, actually the rpm thing is a good point. I've had problems trying to use meego gened rpms in openSUSE. | 21:58 |
| sivang | qgil: that what I had assumed, given it looks the same like the other sdk, but why can't it just bee Nokia QT sdk, that can target MeeGo ? | 21:58 |
| auke | I see we have very little patches to rpm | 21:58 |
| auke | so, upstream first would be good | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | hl? | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | replacing the e? | 21:58 |
| csdb | afaik each rpm version has its own quirks so it should at least be said Meego uses rpm version NN (which btw FC 13 also uses...) or something like that | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: in rpm, armv7l is the name for it .. armv7el is some thing OBS uses | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | ah, ok | 21:59 |
| slaine | Isn't rpmrc already meego specific for the ssse3 stuff ? | 21:59 |
| auke | csdb: meego rpm's (meego packages) are not meant to be compatible with other distros at all | 21:59 |
| sivang | qgil: I mean, to be compatible with previous releases, but if there's a wish to differentiate it makes sense | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: well i guess in terms of optimizations | 22:00 |
| auke | the internal format of the rpm file matters less than things like dependencies etc. | 22:00 |
| csdb | auke, but does the rpm spec have global version #s? Common across SuSE, Redhat and all other rpm-using distros? | 22:00 |
| DawnFoster | reminds qgil to join #meego-meeting for TSG :) | 22:00 |
| thiago_home | well, isn't there an LSB spec for rpms? | 22:00 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: which is what your talking about no ? | 22:00 |
| csdb | I mean for the format of the rpm itself | 22:00 |
| auke | rpm4 format is stable since forever | 22:00 |
| slaine | yay, I'm around for a TSG for the first time in ages | 22:00 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: i think i'll weigh it with the fedora arm and opensuse arm guys wrt naming.. i think they are the only ones in the 'arm rpm' field | 22:02 |
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| csdb | auke, rpm4 has been around but if I recall SuSE is 4.7 and FC is 4.8 (or something like that) and I know I had problems doing a simple "rpm -qilp " on a MeeGo gened rpm from SuSE. | 22:02 |
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| thiago_home | Stskeeps: are you in contact with anyone inside Nokia on that hardfp bootstrapping? | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: i have a working meego hardfp buildroot now that can compile python and perl, at least | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 22:04 |
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| thiago_home | I heard today that there are people in Nokia wokring on this | 22:04 |
| thiago_home | I just want to make sure you guys are in touch | 22:04 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago_home: well, at least at last toolchain meeting nothing had been bootstrapped | 22:04 |
| javispedro | gles in desktop, surprised. | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | netbook | 22:05 |
| javispedro | ofc mesa-based drivers won't have a problem with it.. | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | well, the thing is that the libraries have different sonames | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | so applications (and Qt, in particular) can only link to one of them, not both | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | since GLESv2 is largely a subset of GL2, this isn't that big a problem | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/meego-hardfp/files/ is what's bootstrapped so far.. we're (me, dl9pf_ from LF) are working to get OBS building started using these | 22:06 |
| csdb | auke, Ok, I take that back. I just tried it from openSUSE and it seems to work (at least with sampling of 1). But I'm pretty sure I've had problems in the past. Though I'll leave it at that since I have no proof atm | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | the GLESv2 functionality not present in GL2 can be easily emulated (or so I'm told) | 22:06 |
| javispedro | possibly | 22:07 |
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| javispedro | but .. | 22:07 |
| javispedro | GL2 still contains all of GL1 :) | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | which is the issue | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | GLESv2 doesn't | 22:08 |
| javispedro | so quite a chunk of functionality that is still teached at schools goes missing | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | people shouldn't use GL1. They should use GL2. | 22:08 |
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| leinir | javispedro: Yup - forget ever having heard about the fixed function pipeline, it no longer exists ;) | 22:09 |
| * javispedro is not entirely against such a thing, but much of the possible "Porting" appeal of netbook is lost | 22:10 | |
| leinir | we had a whole lot of fun with that in gluon... our old graphics engine was all fixed function... so it was ripped out and redone from scratch... and also made the whole thing super-neato and way more extensible in the process, but that's a different matter of course :) | 22:10 |
| javispedro | btw, if the issue is qt not being able to link with both at once.. | 22:11 |
| javispedro | SDL does. It just dlopens the required one based on a setup call. | 22:11 |
| javispedro | and then sets itself up to use the appropiate functions. | 22:12 |
| javispedro | so it can seamlessly switch between gles1 and gles2 for example. | 22:12 |
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| javispedro | so it effectively leaves it up to the application to decide which want to use. | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: Qt could dlopen | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | we don't want to because it doesn't solve the problem of the apps | 22:13 |
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| javispedro | what you mean? apps should link with none at all if they don't use a GL function, and link with the one they want if they use it. | 22:14 |
| thiago_home | which one do they want if they use GL? | 22:15 |
| javispedro | depends on "what" GL | 22:15 |
| thiago_home | remember, these apps are built once and they must run on all hardware | 22:15 |
| thiago_home | so which one should they link to? | 22:15 |
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| lcuk | sdl obviously :P | 22:16 |
| javispedro | I would be assuming you keep the "Meego netbook" has GL2+GLES2 definition. | 22:16 |
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| thiago_home | with the change to the spec, netbooks must support GLES2 now | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: mesa + drivers should be able to use it.. | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | in turn that simplifies the question: if the app wants to run everywhere, it must link to GLES2 | 22:17 |
| javispedro | in which case (GL2+GLES2), if they want GL2, they link with -lGL, they want want GLES2, lGLES2 | 22:17 |
| veli | with dlopen one could also change underlaying other backends.. Or the user could do that. Install e.g. google maps backend but the apps would still use the same api. | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | google maps? | 22:17 |
| javispedro | so it's not a library issue, but rather that you want to simplify the spec so that GLES2 devices only are acceptable :) | 22:17 |
| * thiago_home wonders what veli is talking about | 22:17 | |
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| javispedro | s/GLES2 devices only/only GLES2 devices | 22:18 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: devices with GLES2, or those with drivers that can emulate it | 22:18 |
| RST38h | javispedro:Isn't GLES2 completely differentfromGLES1? | 22:18 |
| RST38h | not a subset or superset but a whole different animal? | 22:18 |
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| thiago_home | GLEs2 is largely a subset of GL2 | 22:18 |
| javispedro | RST38h: it is completely different, but that's another story. | 22:18 |
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| javispedro | so, to recap, the idea is to allow devices that only support GLES2 to be Meego netbook capable. | 22:19 |
| javispedro | then yes, dropping GL entirely is the only sane option. | 22:19 |
| javispedro | thanks for the explanation :) | 22:20 |
| thiago_home | the problem at hand is that apps and Qt must link to something (the same thing) and there's only one build | 22:20 |
| thiago_home | we tried to make two builds, but it was too hard | 22:20 |
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| thiago_home | since GLESv2 is present in most verticals and netbooks can emulate GLES, it's not hard | 22:21 |
| thiago_home | the next problem is what happens if an app linked to libGL also links to Qt | 22:21 |
| javispedro | well, if there's a Meego netbook device without GL2, then it's stupid to allow GL2. | 22:21 |
| javispedro | but if there isn't... | 22:21 |
| veli | thiago_home: well now you link against certain backends. With dlopen we could provide the possibility for user to change to a different backend.. Maybe some company would like to do a commercial backend for some service but still be able to use the same apps. | 22:22 |
| javispedro | basically, let the app link with the one it wants. | 22:22 |
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| javispedro | Qt doesn't link with any single one. | 22:22 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: Lenovo IdeaPads have GL1... | 22:22 |
| thiago_home | GMA3150 | 22:22 |
| thiago_home | veli: this is OpenGL we're talking about | 22:22 |
| javispedro | It just dlopens the one the application linked with based on a ) heuristic b ) explicity function call | 22:22 |
| thiago_home | it's not a backend. It's a front-end API that apps link to as well. | 22:22 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: How about having a GLES1 compat layer on top of GLES2 and relying on GLES1 entirely? | 22:23 |
| javispedro | *GLES2 | 22:23 |
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| thiago_home | RST38h: GLES1 is completely different and should die... | 22:23 |
| javispedro | thiago_home: say goodbye to all of my dreams of getting EA to port a game to Meego. | 22:23 |
| spoussa | thiago_home: +1 | 22:23 |
| RST38h | I know that it is different. I do not understand why it should die though | 22:23 |
| veli | thiago_home: true.. but dlopen came up. ;) | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: it needs to be fixed, I agree | 22:24 |
| RST38h | GLES1 is way closer to proper GL than GLES2 | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: in my vision, libGL links to libGLESv2 | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: since it is an almost perfect superset anyway | 22:24 |
| javispedro | oh, a bit scary. | 22:24 |
| javispedro | what? | 22:24 |
| javispedro | well. | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | GL2 almost perfect superset of GLESv2 | 22:24 |
| RST38h | is it a superset? | 22:24 |
| RST38h | ah ok | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | not completely. GL4 is a superset of GLESv4 | 22:25 |
| RST38h | and GL1 is a superset of GLES1 | 22:25 |
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| javispedro | well... | 22:25 |
| javispedro | nothing of these assumptions is 100% true, but it is rare functionality either way | 22:25 |
| thiago_home | apparently GLESv2 has stuff that GL2 doesn't. But it's not to hard to emulate | 22:25 |
| thiago_home | or so I'm told... | 22:25 |
| * javispedro at least agrees with the move to EGL.. | 22:25 | |
| Summeli | I think that the problem (usually) with GL2 vs GLES2 "emulation" is how you are using the shaders | 22:26 |
| Summeli | the GPUs in PC world had quite much more power than the ones on mobile devices | 22:27 |
| thiago_home | indeed | 22:27 |
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| thiago_home | in any case, Qt only needs the common subset of both | 22:28 |
| thiago_home | so if there were a libGLcommon.so, we'd use that | 22:28 |
| javispedro | dlopen! :) | 22:28 |
| thiago_home | can't dlopen because it depends on what the app is linking to | 22:29 |
| thiago_home | we can't guess that | 22:29 |
| javispedro | oh, you can | 22:29 |
| javispedro | glGetVersion | 22:29 |
| javispedro | or just check for the presence of some symbols (ie make libGL define I_AM_GL and libGLES2 I_AM_GLES2) | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | you can't call that before you dlopen | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | you must dlopen first | 22:30 |
| RST38h | noooooo | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | the point is: what should it dlopen? | 22:30 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: hmm, I think I've heard this question before :) | 22:30 |
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| lbt | point me to the answer ;) | 22:31 |
| RST38h | it should dlopen them in succession and check each for version | 22:31 |
| RST38h | (good luck doing it on a mobile device) | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | which is again why we don't want to do it | 22:32 |
| RST38h | Or, better, create an abstraction layer library that lets Qt use either | 22:32 |
| javispedro | no, just the glGetVersion of the current loaded one | 22:32 |
| RST38h | And ship the right version of the layer library with each platform | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: that's what we came up with when I talked to Linaro | 22:32 |
| RST38h | thiago: and that is probably the least evil | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: there isn't one loaded before you dlopen | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: indeed | 22:32 |
| javispedro | thiago_home: not in RTLD_DEFAULT? | 22:32 |
| thiago_home | javispedro: hmm... had forgotten about that feature | 22:33 |
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| javispedro | but even then, there's no need to that; SDL has a function that basically boils down to SDL_UseThisGLLibrary(GL|GLES1|GLES2) | 22:34 |
| thiago_home | and if you don't tell it? | 22:34 |
| javispedro | (ofc that breaks API...) | 22:34 |
| javispedro | thiago_home: "sane" default. I understand that might break existing Qt applications... | 22:35 |
| RST38h | ...and that is why Qt should use SDL as its backend | 22:35 |
| javispedro | (but then dropping libGL also might...) | 22:35 |
| * RST38h urgently looks for a tree to climb | 22:35 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: the community port of Qt to WebOS used SDL as backend afaiu =) | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: don't worry | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | the standard answer now is "nice, send a patch" :-) | 22:36 |
| javispedro | :) | 22:36 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Hell, WebOS does not offer that many opportunities, it is either JS or SDL | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | doesn't webos use Qt? | 22:36 |
| javispedro | 2.0 does | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | where did you find that info? | 22:37 |
| javispedro | this is pre-2 efforts by cowboy coders.. | 22:37 |
| RST38h | javispedro: And I do not wanna see Qt with Javascript as backend... | 22:37 |
| javispedro | thiago_home: rom image; not me, webosinternals guys. | 22:37 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: that reminds me of an April 1st joke that never got off the ground | 22:38 |
| thiago_home | we wanted it last year, "Qt 5.0 to have JavaScript as its main language" | 22:38 |
| javispedro | heh | 22:39 |
| RST38h | thiago: Is that a joke though? | 22:39 |
| RST38h | With QtQuick/Qml thing being based on JS... | 22:39 |
| thiago_home | but then the marketing guys had prepared this huge effort into the "qtoverload.com" idea | 22:39 |
| thiago_home | this year, it was too close to the truth... | 22:39 |
| slaine | Has the topic of linking against some external lib been covered, i.e. the idea say of utilizing some utility app from the Ovi store | 22:39 |
| slaine | and the question of compliance there in | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | thiago_home: am discussing some things with fedora arm guys.. how are we on thumb usage? | 22:40 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: we're not using it | 22:40 |
| RST38h | slaine: The way I understood things, you can have external dependencies in community repos | 22:40 |
| thiago_home | but Thumb2 should be good | 22:40 |
| slaine | RST38h: but can your app be meego compliant | 22:40 |
| RST38h | slaine: The self containment requirement is for Ovi store only | 22:41 |
| Jaffa | slaine: No dependencies on non-official packages in third party packages. | 22:41 |
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| Jaffa | slaine: If you want compliance. | 22:41 |
| RST38h | slaine: I do not know,and do not care much, as long as I am able to distribute it to the users | 22:41 |
| slaine | good, that makes sense | 22:41 |
| * thiago_home agrees to that for the community repo | 22:41 | |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: You don't know if most users will be using devices which only allow compliant apps | 22:41 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: If that happens to be the case, I will consider wrapping stuff into one huge binary blob | 22:42 |
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| thiago_home | andyross: yes, POSIX and STL API should be allowed | 22:42 |
| thiago_home | it's basically "a given" | 22:42 |
| Jaffa | Us lot with unsubsidised stuff might be able to do anything, but less useful if to "compete" with iOS/Android, most devices get locked into "compliance" to reduce the QA requirements for accepting packages | 22:42 |
| javispedro | and Qt, I guess :) | 22:43 |
| thiago_home | we can even standardise on glibc API, since we don't allow other libc | 22:43 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Yeah, a few 100MB apps will change any such policy PDQ, IMHO | 22:43 |
| RST38h | Jaffa:Basically, as I am probably going to charge for apps on Meego, I will just ship them as standalone blobs | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Not my responsibility to worry about. | 22:43 |
| lbt | if there was a subtle...! == "I have a question" then DawnFoster would be able to call on people in order and there wouldn't be the "is it quiet yet?......mmmmmm...... DAMN someone beat me" syndrome that leads to early questions and DawnFoster having to moan at them making them feel like idiots... | 22:43 |
| andyross | thiago_home: Yeah. But it seems like if we're splitting out a core API and specifying "everything else" as the "platform API" we need to be sticky about what "obvious" ones get left out | 22:43 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: have you checked out the average app size on other platforms? ;) | 22:43 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: hint: those preenv users quickly ran out of /opt space ;) | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | andyross: in the interest of time, I propose you send Mats a lits of obvious stuff left out | 22:44 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Let Intel/Nokia guys hit this problem head-on and solve it | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | and no, X11 is not left out by accident. | 22:44 |
| javispedro | heh. | 22:44 |
| andyross | Fair enough. | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | wayland... | 22:45 |
| lbt | Jaffa: "I think there will be a way to describe this (suggestions welcome), first cut is intentionally restrictive" | 22:45 |
| andyross | Yeah, that's what I assumed :) | 22:45 |
| andyross | The GLX question was more that there's a *ton* of software that already binds to it, and (last time I checked) pretty poor support for EGL on top of GLX in Mesa. Which sounds like a teething problem. | 22:46 |
| thiago_home | I wish some of our graphics guys were coming to Dublin | 22:46 |
| lcuk | :) | 22:46 |
| thiago_home | they'd be able to discuss this and come up with a solution | 22:47 |
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| Stskeeps | mwichmann: you're coming to dublin too? | 22:47 |
| RST38h | BTW, is anyone at all trying to insure that the standard Unix/X11/Gtk/Qt apps still run onMeego? | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, if normal x11 apps break, so does qt. | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:48 |
| thiago_home | mwichmann: suggest you create an unconference proposal for next week | 22:48 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Not necessarily, depends on what qt uses for backend =) | 22:48 |
| thiago_home | the Qt for X11 port obviously uses X11 | 22:48 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: there is a session: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/app-compatibility-and-meego-compliance-program | 22:49 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo 1.x is using that port, so X11 is kind-of guaranteed to be there | 22:49 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, ++++ | 22:49 |
| lcuk | :) | 22:49 |
| mwichmann | Stskeeps: I wasn't given permission to travel, so I won't be there unfortunately | 22:50 |
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| mwichmann | skarpness is taking over the talk | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | mwichmann: ah, ok - regarding the ARM thing i think the specific support needed (ARMv7, EABI, VFPv3) is actually good to have there (for 1.1) | 22:51 |
| mwichmann | maybe he can do other stuff on compliance | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | because it won't run on ARMv6, OABI, hardfp ;) | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | OABI? who uses that? | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | noone, just an example of why it's important to note what is compliant :) | 22:52 |
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| thiago_home | VFPv3-D32 then | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it should say VFPv3-D32, not only VFPv3 | 22:53 |
| javispedro | yeah, unfortunate name decision on gcc's part :) | 22:53 |
| javispedro | this item should be put on a FAQ, sounds like a bit of obscure knowledge. | 22:54 |
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| thiago_home | don't forget to add little-endian too then | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | man, ARM is complicated.. | 22:55 |
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| MannyNS | Stskeeps: yes, you were right | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | MannyNS: join gbraad then | 22:56 |
| MannyNS | what is the Meego policy of adding new architecture to Meego base? | 22:58 |
| slaine | bspencer: could I run a Fedora VM and have the meego sdk hosted in that ? | 22:58 |
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| slaine | i.e. will qemu run in a vm | 22:58 |
| slaine | haha, edgecase | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | MannyNS: get it working, submit patches, take responsibility and QA personell | 22:59 |
| bspencer | slaine: so you can run Linux in the VM on top of Windows and then run QEMU in Linux VM ? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | MannyNS: and in the end approved by TSG | 22:59 |
| bspencer | I like it :) | 22:59 |
| bspencer | no idea. | 22:59 |
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| slaine | lol, well, more thinking of running VirtualBox version of Fedora 13/14 on my mac and installing the MeeGo SDK in that | 23:00 |
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| thiago_home | emulate ARM inside an emulated Linux? | 23:00 |
| thiago_home | slaine: why do you want a Linux VM in the first place? | 23:00 |
| mwichmann | speaking from /experience/, two layers of VM is... painful :) | 23:00 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, some people use linux inside vmware | 23:00 |
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| slaine | 'cause there's no SDK on Mac OS X | 23:00 |
| lcuk | from windows | 23:00 |
| bspencer | slaine: right. I understand when you don't have countless PCs around to load things on. | 23:00 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: they do, but that's because they want to run Linux apps | 23:01 |
| thiago_home | but why do we need to provide an SDK VM? | 23:01 |
| slaine | exactly | 23:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: and it is usually painful | 23:01 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, sure | 23:01 |
| * thiago_home points out that he uses Mandriva and wants to run the SDK too | 23:01 | |
| slaine | thiago_home: we don't, but there's no packaged up method for Mac OS X like there is for Linux or will be for Windows (though bspencer said they intend to look at this next year) | 23:02 |
| RST38h | As it is all Linux, what is the problem with making SDK work on different distros? | 23:02 |
| thiago_home | slaine: there's way to package stuff for Mac :-) | 23:02 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: it's not the Linux way, but it's possible | 23:03 |
| thiago_home | the Qt and Nokia Qt SDK do it | 23:03 |
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| RST38h | And thatis probably how it should be | 23:03 |
| thiago_home | besides the IDE, there's very little left that needs to be compiled | 23:03 |
| slaine | thiago_home: indeed, and possibly someday soon, the "SDK" will be available | 23:04 |
| thiago_home | well, the cross-compiler... | 23:04 |
| bspencer | slaine: RST38h : btw, MeeGo supports full Qt 4.7 . so if you application is cnostrained to just Qt 4.7 you can develop the majority of it using Qt for Mac or Qt for Wnidows, without the MeeGo SDK | 23:04 |
| slaine | at the moment it's not and I'm too busy to futz about trying to make qemu work for me | 23:04 |
| mwichmann | there's a port of rpm to macos :) | 23:04 |
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| andyross | slaine: The OpenGL acceleration transport is a custom thing, and tied to qemu/kvm (caveat: I was last looking at the SDK work two months ago and haven't kept up). It's non-trivial to get it working with another VM. | 23:04 |
| bspencer | but eventually you will need to build it with MeeGo toolchain | 23:04 |
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| slaine | indeed | 23:04 |
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| thiago_home | bspencer: are you in touch with our Berlin team? | 23:05 |
| slaine | I'll be targeting netbook like platforms, so it's not as big a deal for me | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | the team that does the current Qt SDK? | 23:05 |
| Stecchino | anyone here tried to visualize gestures for video demo purposes? | 23:05 |
| Stecchino | Not sure of it's possible but I was thinking of creating a eventFilter on the main widget that would drag a finger on top and other images for the gestures | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | they have a way to do Mac | 23:05 |
| andyross | Or if you have a little cash in your budget, there are handset images that run on Pine Trail netbooks. | 23:05 |
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| javispedro | andyross: you could it linked with VirtualBox's GL acceleration (it's basically Chrome GL)? | 23:05 |
| javispedro | *get | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | give them a cross-compiler and the sysroot, they have the rest | 23:05 |
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| javispedro | err... s/Chrome/Chromium GL | 23:06 |
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| slaine | Anyway, it's not the thing that's been holding me back anyway, just lack of time | 23:06 |
| Stecchino | thiago_home: scheduling sigh: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule | 23:07 |
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| Stecchino | You would be sooo welcome in the BoF session | 23:07 |
| thiago_home | bspencer: btw, didn't see you last week so I could say good bye. Did you enjoy the event? | 23:07 |
| andyross | javispedro: Haven't looked at that one. We were looking at this same issue about the time bspencer's folks started working on their solutions. Is the VirtualBox thing robust? | 23:07 |
| thiago_home | Stecchino: explain? | 23:07 |
| Stecchino | http://conference2010.meego.com/session/bof-developing-meego-interface-your-desktop-app | 23:07 |
| Stecchino | frank as well | 23:08 |
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| javispedro | andyross: unfortunately I'm ot a heavy vbox user... but Sun/Oracle sells it, it must at least work I guess :D | 23:08 |
| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, | 23:08 |
| lcuk | kathy wanting the knitting counter is cool | 23:08 |
| lcuk | i know someone else who knits too :P | 23:08 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 23:09 |
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| Noobmonk3y | the healthcheck project was started as a qt qui app, i can start a new qtmobility app, and it works | 23:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh, might as well start again, again, again | 23:09 |
| lcuk | heh | 23:10 |
| * lcuk has heard of a few projects being started directly with qtmobility functionality | 23:10 | |
| lcuk | lots of folks are happy with what it provides | 23:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | yup, so gonna start it, and hopefully it will ease my Maemo specific issues as the systeminfo call will do half of what i want | 23:11 |
| lcuk | yeah | 23:11 |
| DawnFoster | lbt - you still here? | 23:13 |
| lbt | do I ever leave :) | 23:13 |
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| DawnFoster | not really :) | 23:13 |
| sivang | lcuk: she explained to me the idea, I wanted to do it- but got tied up with stuff :/ I liked it as well :) | 23:14 |
| DawnFoster | I wanted to tell you that I've tried your hand raising idea before MeeGo and it has more issues than what we use now | 23:14 |
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| DawnFoster | what usually happens is several people raise their hand | 23:14 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Oracle sells their DB too. Doesn't make it good. | 23:14 |
| DawnFoster | several of them have the exact same or similar questions | 23:14 |
| DawnFoster | or other people's questions become obsolete by the time you get to them | 23:14 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: hehe | 23:15 |
| DawnFoster | so, you spend a lot of time sorting out that people don't have questions any more | 23:15 |
| tybollt | oracle is slowly but securely comitting harakiri :) | 23:15 |
| DawnFoster | and it takes a lot more time | 23:15 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: make sense? | 23:15 |
| tybollt | no sane bussiness will stick w/ mysql | 23:15 |
| lbt | it does | 23:15 |
| DawnFoster | it's also hard to track over IRC (put point of failure on 1 person - me) | 23:15 |
| lbt | but I know that it's hard to spot a pause vs a finish | 23:16 |
| DawnFoster | I know what we have isn't perfect | 23:16 |
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| lcuk | I am going to take a placard to the meego conference with "QUESTION:" on it | 23:16 |
| RST38h | there are logs | 23:16 |
| lbt | see bspencer's nice <end announcement> | 23:16 |
| lbt | or just | 23:16 |
| lbt | . | 23:16 |
| lbt | if we "allow" a ! then that's OK , as you call their name they say "answered - thanks" | 23:17 |
| lbt | I know I feel annoyed when someone pips me and it feels unfair | 23:17 |
| lbt | I don't like you having to tell me to shut up (it can feel very dismissive) | 23:17 |
| lbt | which honestly makes me not want to bother | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, the alternative is a queue/moderator like we had before | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | which is less fluent/inclusive | 23:18 |
| lbt | well, I thought through the ! thing | 23:18 |
| DawnFoster | part of the problem is that we always have more questions than we can answer in the time allowed | 23:18 |
| lbt | it's how the real-world works | 23:18 |
| lcuk | agreed in a way, but where theres obvious interest in a topic, we could find a way to go back at the end or extend the topic slightly | 23:18 |
| lbt | I agree... nothing is perfect | 23:18 |
| lbt | heh .... I was offering something constructive though... | 23:19 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: and I do apprciate it | 23:19 |
| lbt | if you feel it's not useful I won't be offended | 23:19 |
| DawnFoster | which is why I wanted to have this conversation | 23:19 |
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| lbt | I would ask that speakers are primed to say "." | 23:19 |
| lcuk | why can't we allow people to ? anyway? | 23:20 |
| lbt | especially the slow typers | 23:20 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, you know it might happen | 23:20 |
| lbt | who type 23 lines in utter silence | 23:20 |
| lcuk | if people want to QUESTION: immediately, cool | 23:20 |
| lbt | and then hit return | 23:20 |
| lbt | making us thing... "are they dead"? | 23:20 |
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| DawnFoster | lcuk: for very large meetings, it's generally good practice to let people finish their update and take questions at the end | 23:21 |
| javispedro | yet more reason to meet in Jabber conference rooms =) | 23:21 |
| javispedro | (where typing notifications are part of the protocol ;) ) | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | another possibility.. someone taking on himself to work questions into a nice questions sheet and any presenter should be obligated to answer within 48 hours after a TSG meeting | 23:21 |
| lbt | totally agree... the "." is a way of saying "I'm done" | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | that way we have a flow and a nice 'Q&A' blog series | 23:21 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I really like that idea (or something like it) | 23:21 |
| DawnFoster | maybe we can update the http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings/Instructions_for_presenters | 23:22 |
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| lbt | also... maybe prime attendees on the wonders of cut'n'paste for announcers | 23:22 |
| lbt | rather than have them retype ;) | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: it seems like many have learnt to prep with copy-n-paste | 23:22 |
| DawnFoster | with some better tips for indicating that they are done. | 23:22 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: I've been working with people on that :) | 23:22 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: :P ... oh yeah ... probably using an apple | 23:22 |
| DawnFoster | bspencer: seemed to be in good shape | 23:22 |
| lbt | he was great | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | poor mwichmann got pulled into this 1.5 hours before the tsg | 23:23 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, lbt, pasting is mentioned explicitly | 23:23 |
| lbt | noticed that | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | to cover for mark who wouldn't make it | 23:23 |
| lcuk | "have a text file with some key points that you can paste into IRC to get you started when introducing the topic. " | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | he did fantastic on short notice :) | 23:23 |
| thiago_home | or type really fast | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | I use the text file / cut and paste approach | 23:23 |
| lbt | thiago_home: irc... the best typing tutor in the world | 23:23 |
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| DawnFoster | makes the meetings much easier for me | 23:24 |
| timakima | by the way, are the presented slides going to be available from the meego conference website later? | 23:24 |
| lbt | *nod* ... I have been known to | 23:24 |
| GAN900 | lbt, or worst. ;) | 23:24 |
| * thiago_home needs to prepare his presentation for next week | 23:24 | |
| lbt | nb... we're quietly allowing users onto the community OBS now | 23:24 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, TextExpander is nice. | 23:24 |
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| thiago_home | I'll steal from the Dev Days keynotes :-) | 23:25 |
| lbt | "by request" ... just so you know... | 23:25 |
| DawnFoster | GAN900: ooooh, nice. I'm going to look at that | 23:25 |
| lcuk | grrr lbt \@/ | 23:26 |
| lbt | lcuk: ? | 23:26 |
| lcuk | your interesting topic allowed me to be so distracted a whole tina turner youtube video played | 23:26 |
| DawnFoster | thiago_home: yeah, me too - I have 2 presentations that I haven't finished | 23:27 |
| DawnFoster | luckily i've done similar ones I can steal from | 23:27 |
| * slaine is really looking forward to next week | 23:28 | |
| lcuk | has dneary offered up his extremely informative presentation hints and tips this year | 23:28 |
| thiago_home | me too | 23:28 |
| * Stskeeps got cute-ish business cards with his meegon on | 23:28 | |
| dneary | lcuk, No | 23:28 |
| lcuk | dneary, still got the slide notes? | 23:28 |
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| thiago_home | note to self: check that I have enough business cards | 23:30 |
| thiago_home | almost ran out of after dev days | 23:30 |
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| dneary | lcuk, Yeah. http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/10/10/giving-great-presentations-speaker-notes/ | 23:30 |
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| dneary | thiago_home, Andrea's a bit shy about emailing people he doesn't know yet | 23:31 |
| lcuk | dneary, :) great stuff, and evenbetter for people to read them BEFORE they arrive ;) | 23:31 |
| dneary | thiago_home, Do you think you could do me a favour? | 23:31 |
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| dneary | lcuk, Feel free to post a link :) I don't want to be selling myself | 23:31 |
| thiago_home | dneary: name it | 23:31 |
| lcuk | dneary, you just posted the link yourself. but the advice in there is something lots of nervous people could read over, especially if its the first time presenting | 23:32 |
| dneary | thiago_home, we don't know how many people with Qt knowledge will be there to help out on Sunday afternoon for the hands-on session | 23:33 |
| thiago_home | crap, forgot to find who from our team will be there | 23:33 |
| * thiago_home checks his ticket | 23:34 | |
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| dneary | thiago_home, Basically, we would like half a dozen "lab assistants" to help people with problems doing some coding projects that Kevin Ottens will be setting | 23:34 |
| lcuk | i am going to be in town on sunday, but I am not signed up for any of the earlybird events, do I have to signup officially or just turnup? | 23:34 |
| thiago_home | dneary: arrival 12:35 | 23:34 |
| dneary | Link to people who've signed up is here: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/early-bird-events/attendees | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | I think that's the flight many of us will be taking | 23:35 |
| dneary | thiago_home, We start ~2pm | 23:35 |
| dneary | Should be just enough time to get there | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | dneary: I don't know if I can find you a dozen | 23:35 |
| dneary | half a dozen :) | 23:35 |
| dneary | 4-6 would be ideal | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | dneary: whoever is flying with me, I'll bring along | 23:37 |
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| thiago_home | that's what I can do for you | 23:37 |
| thiago_home | at the stadium? | 23:37 |
| dneary | thiago_home, Thanks! | 23:37 |
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| dneary | thiago_home, It's the hotel | 23:38 |
| thiago_home | ok, even better | 23:38 |
| dneary | The D4 Ballsbridge Inn (also known as Jury's Inn) | 23:38 |
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| dneary | Night | 23:38 |
| thiago_home | I'm in D4 something | 23:39 |
| bspencer | how to update that link dneary ? ( http://conference2010.meego.com/program/early-bird-events/attendees ) | 23:39 |
| * bspencer feels incompetent | 23:39 | |
| dneary | bspencer, Sign up to the early bird events | 23:39 |
| dneary | bspencer, In your account | 23:40 |
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| dneary | "Edit profile" | 23:40 |
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| DawnFoster | I think that registration was closed for everything when we hit 1000 | 23:41 |
| bspencer | yeah. np | 23:41 |
| bspencer | I didn't see it listed... but I'm on the agenda :) | 23:41 |
| thiago_home | presenting? | 23:41 |
| bspencer | thiago_home: on ARM development. My specialty <sarc> | 23:41 |
| thiago_home | bspencer: we'll get Qualcomm and ST-E folks to talk about Intel then | 23:42 |
| bspencer | thiago_home: excellent. Now we've got the entertainment in place. | 23:42 |
| thiago_home | I wonder what MIPS people will talk about | 23:42 |
| thiago_home | probably PowerPC | 23:42 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | Is the current meego handset release ready for real world use on a Nokia N900? | 23:46 |
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| Stskeeps | i'd go with no | 23:46 |
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| veli | one can ping localhost! | 23:47 |
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| Stskeeps | and make phonecalls, under some conditions | 23:47 |
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| veli | also install hello worlds from sdk! \o/ | 23:47 |
| thiago_home | but only use the speaker | 23:47 |
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| veli | Stskeeps: we made a roaming call in London! \o/ | 23:49 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | so it's still in a developers toy state | 23:49 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | I guess I'll get a nice sd card to dual boot it =) | 23:49 |
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| * thiago_home saw a MeeGo handset call in London | 23:52 | |
| thiago_home | I wonder if it's the same veli saw | 23:52 |
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