| qgil_ | anyway, today I had enough with the Marketing decision :) I'll go do some homework - thank you everybody for the input | 00:00 |
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| sivang | qgil_: see if you and maclaver can put something on google docs for sharing | 00:00 |
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| sivang | qgil_: re the proposal of the WG | 00:00 |
| sivang | qgil_: and send the link to the ML :) | 00:00 |
| qgil_ | sivang: google docs when we have wiki.meego.com? | 00:01 |
| sivang | qgil_: oh right :) | 00:01 |
| sivang | sorry | 00:01 |
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| sivang | qgil_: it was out of habit :-p | 00:01 |
| thiago_home | qgil_: if I manage to get anything done in my Qt on MeeGo presentation, I'll send to you too | 00:01 |
| sivang | re app deveopment: we should also try and make python another good offering, or at least market and presentate this offering | 00:02 |
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| sivang | the pyside team are doing amazing work | 00:02 |
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| sivang | more options for app developers, even if they are not C++ or qt experienced | 00:02 |
| qgil_ | sivang: the old proposal is http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Development_working_group - now only a possible starting point | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | sivang: yeah | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | qgil_: sorry, going back to the part where you asked for someone from the Qt team | 00:02 |
| Wingzero1234 | Question, has anyone been faced with a issue that Xserver doesn't start? | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | qgil_: could you clarify? It went by and I didn't answer. | 00:03 |
| maclaver | Okay, I will work with Quim on the proposal but it will be next week before anything concrete can be done.... | 00:03 |
| maclaver | I have to go now, thanks for the discussion. | 00:03 |
| sivang | qgil_: you guys going to cotninue drafting there? | 00:03 |
| sivang | cheers maclaver | 00:03 |
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| sivang | thiago_home: so to get a feel for app development in no time, through python. I need to google about app inventor for andriod | 00:04 |
| qgil_ | thiago_home: I would like to know if the team in charge of the Qt developer tools would see a Developer Experience WG as something useful and needed in the MeeGo project | 00:04 |
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| qgil_ | in the lines that we have (well, we will have) Handset UX WG, Netbook UX WG and etc thiago_home | 00:04 |
| thiago_home | qgil_: what would that WG do? | 00:05 |
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| thiago_home | qgil_: work on improving the developer experience (meaning tools, releases, etc.) ? | 00:05 |
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| qgil_ | thiago_home: own the roadmap of teh MeeGo developer offering and filling the Program Office with features, just like the other WGs do with their own areas | 00:05 |
| thiago_home | for example, "we need a tool to package simple apps" ? | 00:06 |
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| qgil_ | thiago_home: now the developer offering roadmap is owned by... who? it's not dependent of any device category | 00:06 |
| thiago_home | "we need an RPC mechanism to submit OSS apps to the distro" ? | 00:06 |
| qgil_ | thiago_home: for example: the official developer toolkits are these, the official tools are that, this feature in the SDK needs to go to the next release | 00:06 |
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| thiago_home | ok | 00:07 |
| qgil_ | this is the work the WGs will do for the different UXs, but nobody seems to really handle the planning of the Developer Experience | 00:07 |
| thiago_home | yes, I think they'd be interested in participating | 00:07 |
| thiago_home | and I think they'd see value | 00:07 |
| thiago_home | however, I think the I-program (Harmattan+1) would be even more interested | 00:07 |
| thiago_home | if nothing else, the goals of the MeeGo SDK can't be completely divergent from the Nokia SDK | 00:08 |
| qgil_ | for instance, nowadays... who decides whether QML is the new rock&roll and therefore we need to have everythign ready for it? Not the Handset etc UX groups, the program office can improvise on short term execution but... the TSG directly<' | 00:08 |
| qgil_ | ? | 00:08 |
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| thiago_home | I see | 00:08 |
| thiago_home | a) I think there's a lot of value in that WG | 00:09 |
| thiago_home | b) I don't know who with OSS background could be in that team... | 00:09 |
| qgil_ | for you to think about - and again this is beyond Nokia since the same appies to whoever is developing the next generation of netbooks, IVIs, TVs and what not | 00:09 |
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| thiago_home | yes, it's definitely beyond Nokia | 00:09 |
| pupnik | offtopic: i see audi going to use tegra chipset in next cars - is MeeGo a candidate? | 00:10 |
| thiago_home | but it should be aligned with the Nokia offering. Or should I say, the Nokia offering should be aligned with this? (plus Symbian on the side) | 00:10 |
| thiago_home | pupnik: are they Genivi-alliance? | 00:10 |
| qgil_ | people involved in WGs need to have strong background in product management and roadmapping, more than OSS per se, but of course being an OSS insider does help | 00:10 |
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| sivang | the goals could start with the Nokia SDK and expand | 00:10 |
| pupnik | dunno thiago_home - just seems like a nice alternative for car apps - all the HW you want is in there... | 00:11 |
| qgil_ | MeeGo is upstream and Nokia productizes - if the Qt team is seruious about governance then Qt & MeeGo go first, then Nokia and other Qt vendors go after that | 00:11 |
| qgil_ | anyway, vendors are supposed to be stakeholders in the WGs | 00:11 |
| qgil_ | they are the ones actually investing and selling those products | 00:11 |
| * thiago_home agrees | 00:12 | |
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| DawnFoster | qgil_ WGs are usually made up almost exclusively of vendors | 00:12 |
| DawnFoster | is that what you're intending with this WG? | 00:12 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: yes, it's more "jargon" with thiago_home : whoever he thinks of has a Nokia badge anyway, so is a vendor | 00:12 |
| sivang | those vendors will have developers with development experience to shape the experience, right? | 00:12 |
| DawnFoster | my point is more that if you are looking for a vendor group to define requirements - a WG is a good way to go | 00:13 |
| qgil_ | sivang: of course, they sit in WGs to do real work, and they get the seats there because of concrete involvement in the MeeGo project in the first place | 00:13 |
| DawnFoster | if you are looking for lots of participation from a variety of people in the community, you should call it a project or a team | 00:13 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: the WG I'm talking about should have people from companies agreeing on what the MeeGo developer offering needs to be now and in the future | 00:14 |
| DawnFoster | usually WGs have companies as members - one person leaves and is replaced by another corporate representative | 00:15 |
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| DawnFoster | if you want individuals participating based on the knowledge in their head, you should go a different route | 00:15 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: I want to test bed with the Qt team at Nokia since they of course know about the MeeGo developer tools - if they see this exercise pointless then it is for me pointless to push it | 00:15 |
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| DawnFoster | personally, I'm not a fan of WGs for community stuff | 00:16 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: I'm talking about real roadmapping, WG work | 00:16 |
| sivang | qgil_: but we have to make sure we keep contact with the non vendor community eventually, but starting with the qt team is a good shot | 00:17 |
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| DawnFoster | formal teams and projects chartered with actually getting stuff done with minimal overhead are a better way to go. | 00:17 |
| thiago_home | I don't know if this needs to be a WG or what | 00:17 |
| thiago_home | it needs to be a group of people who can plan features and go to the people who can make those features to convince them | 00:17 |
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| qgil_ | thiago_home: this is a simple definition of a working group | 00:18 |
| DawnFoster | we should also talk to the SDK team, since they are holding regular meetings and doing a lot of what you guys are talking about starting: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK | 00:18 |
| thiago_home | sounds like the SDK team to me, in fact | 00:19 |
| qgil_ | thiago_home: "The working groups are devoted to strategic discussions in specific areas and are accountable to provide input and guidance about requirements, direction, policies, and conflict resolution, within their area of responsibility." | 00:19 |
| qgil_ | http://meego.com/about/governance | 00:19 |
| qgil_ | nowadays the developer office falls in nobody's land | 00:19 |
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| qgil_ | developer experience, I mean :) | 00:19 |
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| thiago_home | I can think of a lot of names, but everyone extremely busy... | 00:20 |
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| qgil_ | DawnFoster: in that page: "Team lorem ipsum... ", in the governance page there are no mention of SDK either - as you see there is a problem | 00:20 |
| sivang | qgil_: what about just havnig a few people of the SDK team to deal with communicating with the "outside" world for requirements and diection? | 00:20 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_ look at the meeting minutes | 00:20 |
| vlj | well sorry I found mic for meego | 00:21 |
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| DawnFoster | they are making real progress and meeting every week | 00:21 |
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| DawnFoster | the governance pages aren't done | 00:21 |
| DawnFoster | the real solution is to get SDK/developer experience in the governance structure | 00:21 |
| DawnFoster | with someone leading it | 00:21 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: of course, and the Program Office is developing a second release without any WG created - still the MeeGo project considers that WG are needed with the responsibilities described in the governance pages | 00:22 |
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| Wingzero1234 | Question has anyone here got Meego to boot on a beagleboard? | 00:22 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_ as I said, you can try to get another WG approved, but I think your chances are unlikely | 00:22 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: someone needs to roadmap the whole developer experience, from the compiler and APIs to the SDK, documentation and distribution channels | 00:23 |
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| qgil_ | getting the TSG to recognize the problem would be progress already | 00:23 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_: agreed, I'm just saying that it belongs in the main governance structure, just like we have people responsible for release management | 00:24 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: but god point, if the meego-sdk people is not convince then there is no point trying to convince anybody else :) | 00:24 |
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| vlj | pupnik: do you know if it is possible to build a meego image for tegra ? | 00:25 |
| thiago_home | vlj: you need to get the GL drivers from NVidia | 00:25 |
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| vlj | there are | 00:25 |
| thiago_home | vlj: also check with them if there are any kernel patches and modules that are necessary | 00:25 |
| vlj | there are kernel patches necessary :) | 00:26 |
| thiago_home | aside from that, it might just work | 00:26 |
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| thiago_home | vlj: I'm asking you. | 00:26 |
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| sivang | this is rather interesting discussion, but I have one more day of fighting with rsyslog tomorrow, good night | 00:26 |
| vlj | what I'm afraid is : does tegra A9 cortex core works with armv7 built meego image ? | 00:26 |
| sivang | qgil_: I apologise if I Asked alrady, are you guys gonna draft over that wiki page? | 00:26 |
| sivang | qgil_: if so, I'll subscribe | 00:27 |
| thiago_home | vlj: yes. The ARMv7 build is optimised for Cortex-A8. | 00:27 |
| sivang | qgil_: re: marketing plan | 00:27 |
| thiago_home | vlj: A9 should be a no problem | 00:27 |
| vlj | arm is backward compatible ? | 00:27 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 00:27 |
| vlj | ok | 00:27 |
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| vlj | is there a way to have a X-less meego ? | 00:27 |
| thiago_home | no | 00:28 |
| sivang | oh well, never mind, I'll expoect a ML thread when a new draft is out. | 00:28 |
| thiago_home | if you remove X, it's no longer called MeeGo | 00:28 |
| sivang | night thiago_home , others. | 00:28 |
| thiago_home | sivang: g'night | 00:28 |
| qgil_ | sivang: I'll update the wiki pages and then send an update to meego-community | 00:28 |
| thiago_home | qgil_: are you already in the US? | 00:28 |
| qgil_ | thiago_home: yep | 00:28 |
| vlj | well, just to test if everything works except gl driver | 00:28 |
| thiago_home | qgil_: MountainView? | 00:28 |
| qgil_ | thiago_home: here right now | 00:29 |
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| vlj | is Meego still meego with a non 2.6.33 kernel ? | 00:31 |
| vlj | with a patched kernel | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | vlj: patched is ok | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | not using one of the components, not ok | 00:31 |
| vlj | ok | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | using a different version, I don't know | 00:31 |
| CosmoHill | how long did it take you guys to share a folder with samba and be able to write to it? | 00:31 |
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| thiago_home | CosmoHill: back in 1998 when I installed Samba for the first time, several hours :-) | 00:32 |
| vlj | CosmoHill: depends on if you have a windows server or not | 00:32 |
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| CosmoHill | ubuntu and windows laptop | 00:32 |
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| DawnFoster | qgil_: it looks like veli & bspencer already own defining the developer offering | 00:32 |
| vlj | so it's taking a lot of time | 00:32 |
| * thiago_home points out that veli is a common Finnish first name | 00:33 | |
| DawnFoster | we should turn this decision over to them & get one of them nominated on the governance page | 00:33 |
| DawnFoster | they really should be driving it | 00:33 |
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| vlj | by the way can I suggest meego developper to include dkms ? :) | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | vlj: you can :-) | 00:34 |
| DawnFoster | thiago_home: Kaksonen | 00:34 |
| CosmoHill | i think I'm up to two hours with this guy atm | 00:34 |
| vlj | because it is usefull | 00:34 |
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| thiago_home | vlj: dkms would be useful for things like the broadcom driver | 00:34 |
| vlj | for instance for nvidia module, emgd module... | 00:34 |
| vlj | I'm already using it on my "customised" Meego | 00:34 |
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| vlj | there is some "openFATE" equivalent for meego ? | 00:35 |
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| thiago_home | I've heard that name, but I don't know what it does | 00:37 |
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| thiago_home | isn't it a requirements-tracking system? | 00:37 |
| vlj | err | 00:37 |
| vlj | it is a "place" to put suggestion from community | 00:37 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: I know, but based on what input? The features for 1.1 were not defined by them but by Sami/Hillarie, and based on what input? It's complicated. :) | 00:37 |
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| vlj | https://features.opensuse.org/ | 00:38 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_ My point is that since they own it, they need to define their own process for requirements gathering. | 00:38 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_ You can make suggestions for them, but you shouldn't be trying to drive their process | 00:38 |
| thiago_home | vlj: no, only Bugzilla | 00:38 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_ Then you should be working with them on marketing, messaging & promotion for what they've defined. | 00:39 |
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| qgil_ | DawnFoster: we hit many times this type of stone. it's ok to propose ideas to others even if you are not owning or directing their areas - some ideas fly, some don't | 00:39 |
| vlj | ok | 00:40 |
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| bspencer | hi DawnFoster | 00:40 |
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| qgil_ | Veli and Ronan actually have been trying to push a developer WG, other think it would be a good idea as well. Having a discussion doesn't harm | 00:40 |
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| bspencer | yes. Veli has proposed an org structure with owners and we are working on people | 00:41 |
| qgil_ | hi bspencer | 00:41 |
| bspencer | hi qgil_ | 00:41 |
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| qgil_ | what I was saying is that the OS and UX development is guided by the steering and roadmapping of the device UX working groups (in the future, when they are created) | 00:42 |
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| qgil_ | but the roadmapping of the developer experience seems to fall in nobody's land, while it's critical for everybody | 00:42 |
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| bspencer | an SDK WG is underway. | 00:43 |
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| qgil_ | we have the figure of the WG for guidance and requirements, and this is why there is this idea that the developer experience (whicvh includes plenty of UX on its own) would need a WG as well participated by the main corporate stakeholders and experts | 00:43 |
| qgil_ | bspencer: great, then I just need to sync with you and help this idea happening | 00:43 |
| bspencer | discussions abt the "developer experience" are happening in our weekly online meetings. We just having formalized the WG people. | 00:43 |
| bspencer | yes, with Veli or me. | 00:44 |
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| bspencer | http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Meetings and http://piratepad.net/thYHTcAtxF for a bit of background | 00:44 |
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| bspencer | we have just recently said "we need a special meeting on the new web structure from ronan along with doc roadmap" | 00:45 |
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| qgil_ | bspencer: it would also help to have someone formally appointed to coordinate the whole work | 00:46 |
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| DawnFoster | qgil_: in general, we need to get the governance structure finalized | 00:46 |
| DawnFoster | there are a lot of placeholders and empty spaces | 00:47 |
| bspencer | qgil_, yes, that is where veli and I are arm wrestling a bit. But we will have that within the week, along with owners for major SDK components | 00:47 |
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| qgil_ | bspencer: this sounds like very good progress, thank you | 00:47 |
| DawnFoster | not just in SDK - even the netbook PM hasn't been nominated :) | 00:47 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: sure sure, but since bspencer is here... :) | 00:48 |
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| DawnFoster | qgil_: just a reminder that we should be arm wrestling more than just the SDK team :) | 00:49 |
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| bspencer | I'm not sure if SDK should be a working group, or a component of the Core WG | 00:49 |
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| bspencer | perhaps a review of how we want this to work would be helpful | 00:49 |
| qgil_ | (there is no Core WG) | 00:50 |
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| bspencer | we accept requirements from many places, but Core WG is a primary director | 00:50 |
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| bspencer | hm. Well, there is netbook, handheld, etc. Isn't there something driven by Gavin? | 00:50 |
| bspencer | I expose my ignorance | 00:50 |
| DawnFoster | we have a core OS program: http://meego.com/about/governance/program-office/core-os-program | 00:51 |
| DawnFoster | it's not called a WG | 00:51 |
| qgil_ | bspencer: see the diagram at http://meego.com/about/governance | 00:51 |
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| qgil_ | the WGs set the requirements for the Program Office | 00:52 |
| bspencer | what is Gavin's role now? | 00:52 |
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| qgil_ | the Program Office makes sure the requirements are done where needed | 00:52 |
| bspencer | "MeeGo Core Product Manager" | 00:52 |
| qgil_ | this means that the Core program gets requirements indirectly, when feature X Y Z needs to be implemented in a UX layer | 00:52 |
| qgil_ | WGs are organized by UX categries, so they look after the UX, good | 00:52 |
| Wingzero1234 | hmmmm | 00:53 |
| qgil_ | but... who looks at the developer offering? The Core Program is not getting much requirements from UX categories point of view and this means that they need to guess a lot | 00:53 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_ We probably need a Developer Offering Program Manager | 00:54 |
| DawnFoster | it's just not in the structure yet | 00:54 |
| qgil_ | MTF? QML? Qt API? Which GCC? Promotoe platform API... all the rpoblems you bspencer have to deal every day | 00:54 |
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| bspencer | I've received requirements from handheld, tablet, and tv groups, along with intern Intel groups like tools and AppUp. | 00:54 |
| DawnFoster | was just talking to Imad - he knows that we still need to get the rest of the roles / nominations finished | 00:54 |
| bspencer | but these aren't coming through WGs. Perhaps that is what we are trying to fix | 00:54 |
| auke | DawnFoster: just keep me off any list ;) | 00:54 |
| qgil_ | bspencer: not to talk about Ovi? AppUp? White label MeeGo shops? There are no known MeeGo plans about this atm | 00:54 |
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| DawnFoster | auke: dang, I was going to put you on the list of people who do all of the work :) | 00:55 |
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| qgil_ | anyway, my little point has been exposed and it's good to see that bspencer veli etc are working to fix this | 00:56 |
| bspencer | if SDK becomes a WG will that introduce a lot of new headaches for us? :) | 00:56 |
| qgil_ | if the solution is a WG or else, I actually don't mind as long as the MeeGo developer experience is excellent | 00:56 |
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| bspencer | agree | 00:57 |
| auke | DawnFoster: oh, that's cool. assign all bugs to me | 00:57 |
| qgil_ | bspencer: my point is that WG vs Program Office are defining the usual relationship between product management and R&D | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | bspencer: isn't that what all WGs do? :-P | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | j/k | 00:57 |
| * thiago_home agrees with qgil_ that we need a team who is thinking of the big-picture-SDK | 00:57 | |
| bspencer | thiago_home, dictators always fear democracy | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | it won't be possible to do in the first iteration, but it's a long-team goal | 00:58 |
| thiago_home | it doesn't have to be a lot of people, nor do they have to meet frequently | 00:59 |
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| qgil_ | the first year f the MeeGo project has shown that the program office doesn't WGs to have releases, but how good is this for the long term :) | 00:59 |
| qgil_ | anyway, I really need to do some concrete work in my little area now :) | 00:59 |
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| qgil_ | thanks for the interestingg discussion | 00:59 |
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| bennry | I apologize in advance for the cut/paste. | 01:09 |
| bennry | <bennry> Hi guys. [08:03] <bennry> I have a question about mic-image-creator [08:03] <bennry> I'm trying to use it to create a .raw image for the N900 using the daily build repo [08:04] <bennry> I'm using the handset-armv7l-n900.ks file from the meego GIT tree. [08:04] == s1gk1ll [sigkill@cl-188.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net] has joined #meego-arm [08:04] == s1gk1ll [sigkill@cl-188.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net] has left #meego-arm [] [08:04] <bennry> and | 01:09 |
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| bennry | then doing disc dump (dd) to get that .raw image to a 4GB Kingston SD card. [08:05] <bennry> back cover is on [08:05] <bennry> I run flasher-3.5 to flash the vmlinux kernel that's created. [08:05] <bennry> and it fails every time to boot the file system [08:05] <bennry> I've done this over and over. [08:06] <bennry> I've even used the prebuilt images from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php [08:06] <bennry> include every .k | 01:15 |
| bennry | the only image that works is the "Closed" raw image [08:06] <bennry> which only boots to a bash shell on the N900 [08:06] <bennry> any suggestions would be helpful. | 01:15 |
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| bennry | that's all of the questions I just posed in #meego-arm | 01:16 |
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| bennry | nobody home? | 01:40 |
| CosmoHill | hey | 01:40 |
| CosmoHill | I'm the cleaner | 01:41 |
| bennry | haha! Nice. | 01:41 |
| CosmoHill | the kid's are doing a performace of snow white at school | 01:41 |
| CosmoHill | they'll be home later in the evening | 01:41 |
| bennry | thank you, sir. | 01:41 |
| auke | bennry: I'm definately not at home... no couch here, no kids, cats, wife etc. | 01:42 |
| * auke stuck at work | 01:42 | |
| CosmoHill | sounds like a hoilday | 01:44 |
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| pupnik | smoke em if ya got em | 01:46 |
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| CosmoHill | auke: you're in america right? | 01:47 |
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| CosmoHill | (or at least near a coffee machine) | 01:47 |
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| bennry | Can you guys read my questions above? | 01:49 |
| auke | CosmoHill: US yes, long walk from decent coffee tho | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | that's what robots are for | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | bennry: yep | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | doesn't mean I know the answer tho | 01:50 |
| bennry | actually, I'm trying to use flasher-3.5 to flash the kernel on an N900. Is there a way I can get the kernel messages out on the terminal? | 01:51 |
| bennry | or are they only in dmesg after boot or on screen wtihout a backlight? | 01:51 |
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| pupnik | is the bootinfo in /var/log somewhere? | 01:52 |
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| * CosmoHill pokes DawnFoster | 02:05 | |
| CosmoHill | what's this I hear about new SSDs tomorrow? | 02:05 |
| auke | new ssd's? | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49713 | 02:05 |
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| auke | interesting | 02:11 |
| auke | I can tell you one thing: Dawn won't be able to answer that :) | 02:11 |
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| DawnFoster | yeah, what auke said :) | 02:14 |
| DawnFoster | anyway, I work in the software side of Intel - I have no idea what they are doing with the hardware | 02:15 |
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| * CosmoHill looks at ...where he arjan? | 02:15 | |
| CosmoHill | damn | 02:15 |
| DawnFoster | and if I did, I couldn't tell you :) but I don't | 02:15 |
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| CosmoHill | if I knew of a new product and people asked me I'd tell them | 02:18 |
| CosmoHill | I wouldn't tell them the truth | 02:18 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, you are op, you can tell him, but then you would have to kline him afterwards :D | 02:18 |
| CosmoHill | make something up ever so slightly different and see who reports what | 02:19 |
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| DawnFoster | ha! | 02:19 |
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| CosmoHill | "yeah yeah the SSD drive is amazing. He's a special feature I'm not meant to tell anyone until it's realease | 02:20 |
| CosmoHill | "it charges your batteries when the screen saver is on" | 02:20 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm kinda used to being kicked out of some channels | 02:23 |
| CosmoHill | I was banned for the duration of my GCSE study leave | 02:24 |
| csdb | bennry: can't help you on your questions, but you might have better luck posting them in 12 hours or so. My guess is that the folks in Finland might be able to better answer them... | 02:24 |
| CosmoHill | and they will have had coffee with their lunch so they'll be alert too | 02:25 |
| CosmoHill | like meerkats! | 02:25 |
| bennry | csdb - unfortunately, I don't look at computers when I'm away from work | 02:26 |
| bennry | I'll just wait until tomorrow's meeting :) | 02:26 |
| bennry | with you guys aparently. | 02:26 |
| CosmoHill | they're a meeting? | 02:26 |
| CosmoHill | there's* | 02:26 |
| csdb | yeah, I guess 9am there is in 8 hours or so | 02:26 |
| bennry | maybe | 02:27 |
| * csdb thinks the world should be flat and without timezones. All bright, then all dark. Rinse and repeat | 02:27 | |
| CosmoHill | a large rotating disc? | 02:28 |
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| CosmoHill | if we were a large rotating disc, do you think humans would develop on the other side? | 02:29 |
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| pupnik | i think women would look funny with their boobs off to one side | 02:30 |
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| pupnik | offtopic | 02:30 |
| CosmoHill | off balance too | 02:30 |
| DawnFoster | ok, people | 02:31 |
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| CosmoHill | lbt: how was this morning's meeting? | 02:32 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, put something on a record player and set it spinning | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | dan le sac va scroobius pip has something groove locked | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | I could put that on | 02:33 |
| lcuk | humans would develop out in deep space | 02:33 |
| lcuk | cos we would fly off it | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | depends on what axis it rotated on | 02:34 |
| bennry | can I use people's names in real life? | 02:34 |
| CosmoHill | you could try | 02:34 |
| FatalSaint | johnx - testdisk worked.. thanks man | 02:34 |
| bennry | I'm meeting with someone from Nokia tomorrow and wanted to chat possibly offline | 02:34 |
| CosmoHill | there are two problems tho | 02:34 |
| bennry | don't want to get in trouble. | 02:34 |
| CosmoHill | 1. they might not like their real names being used | 02:34 |
| CosmoHill | 2. We probably don't know their real names | 02:34 |
| CosmoHill | so we might know who you're talking about but only under their alias | 02:35 |
| bennry | ok, I'll leave their names out of the conversation here. | 02:35 |
| CosmoHill | they might be online | 02:35 |
| CosmoHill | hold on | 02:35 |
| bennry | this person is versed in MeeGo + ARM and various platforms | 02:35 |
| lcuk | bennry, the worst is the opposite | 02:36 |
| lcuk | when you meet people in reallife | 02:36 |
| lcuk | and call them by their irc nicknames | 02:36 |
| CosmoHill | bennry: http://wiki.meego.com/Who%27s_who | 02:36 |
| CosmoHill | I was called Cosmo at one point | 02:36 |
| CosmoHill | my problem is I only learn the first 3 or 4 letters of someone' name now, I just use tab complete | 02:37 |
| bennry | nice | 02:38 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: also over time you build up a mental image of the person which will probably differ from reality | 02:39 |
| odin_ | does anybody know what is the status of the OBS upgrade is ? | 02:39 |
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| bennry | Great, I'm in touch with only one person on that page. | 02:40 |
| bennry | will wait until tomorrow...but thanks for the link. | 02:41 |
| bennry | :) | 02:41 |
| bennry | hopefully I'll be on here for the next few months. | 02:41 |
| bennry | but we'll see. | 02:41 |
| auke | odin_: what do you need to know? | 02:42 |
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| odin_ | well I gather that "the public" (i.e. non intel/nokia/committers) can't have read-only access to obs (to download/copypac) sources until obs has been upgraded to 2.x, maybe 2.1.x | 02:43 |
| odin_ | I hear this is pencilled in for this time, i.e. now to take place | 02:43 |
| auke | should be complete in a few weeks time as I remember | 02:44 |
| auke | there was a minor update a few days back, but not 2.1.x | 02:44 |
| odin_ | since this access has been waited for; for coming on to 5 months now | 02:45 |
| * CosmoHill makes some changes to the who's who page | 02:45 | |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, you can say that again | 02:45 |
| lcuk | i have met lots of folks and am constantly surprised | 02:46 |
| CosmoHill | reordering who's in the wrong position in the list | 02:46 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, the worst part about meeting people when theres so many is remembering names and faces afterwards and connecting the dots back together. i keep taking pictures and making notes as I meet folks now | 02:48 |
| CosmoHill | oh that part | 02:48 |
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| CosmoHill | that makes sense | 02:48 |
| DawnFoster | people should wear name tags all the time to avoid confusion :) | 02:48 |
| DawnFoster | (I have a terrible memory for names, and it would help me so much!) | 02:49 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, i still need to take photos of them | 02:49 |
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| lcuk | and the barcode fad is why i spoke to lardman about decoding after the fact | 02:49 |
| lcuk | just take pics and collate afterwards from badges | 02:49 |
| CosmoHill | done, community list is now in order :) | 02:50 |
| DawnFoster | cosmoHill - thanks | 02:50 |
| CosmoHill | my first real contribution \o/ | 02:51 |
| DawnFoster | CosmoHill: see that meego.com account came in handy | 02:51 |
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| CosmoHill | ironically I'm dyslexic >.< | 02:51 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, you have spent months contributing! | 02:51 |
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| CosmoHill | yay | 02:51 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: I made him actually sign up for an account last month when he was a top IRC contributor with no account :) | 02:51 |
| pupnik | lcuk: for synchronizing pulse audio network streams, one could use algorithms similar to echo-cancellation to detect the amount of time-lag between the stream on once device and the local device (using the microphone to monitor the other device's audio speaker output) | 02:51 |
| lcuk | haha | 02:51 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: on those notes do you also have phonetic pronouciations? | 02:52 |
| DawnFoster | I had nothing to link to in my blog post | 02:52 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, usually no, i take notes like i used to have my floppy disk collection | 02:52 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: "Member since, 3 hours ago" :p | 02:52 |
| lcuk | a bit of a word or phrase is usually enough to remember convo | 02:52 |
| DawnFoster | ok, guys - I'm outta here. Heading to the gym. | 02:53 |
| pupnik | we also need continuous speech recognition | 02:53 |
| bennry | btw, * Valtteri Halla (Nokia) - Benevolent dictator * Imad Sousou/imad (Intel) - Benevolent dictator | 02:53 |
| CosmoHill | cyas DawnFoster | 02:53 |
| bennry | hilarious | 02:53 |
| CosmoHill | enjoy | 02:53 |
| lcuk | have fun DawnFoster | 02:53 |
| lcuk | pupnik, hmm different topic | 02:53 |
| pupnik | happy fitness DawnFoster | 02:53 |
| lcuk | OpenSoundControl library has network wide time sync stuff afaik | 02:53 |
| pupnik | interesting lcuk | 02:53 |
| * lcuk watches dawn get in her car, drive to gym, go up the escalator... | 02:54 | |
| pupnik | kids would love to be able to playback synched music from several devices | 02:54 |
| lcuk | bandwidth pupnik | 02:54 |
| lcuk | assuming same songs available i would agree | 02:54 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: :) | 02:54 |
| CosmoHill | I should have ordered the meego developer's list whilst I was at it | 02:54 |
| lcuk | and have super surround sound | 02:54 |
| CosmoHill | (and I suppose at some point I should add myself) | 02:55 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, say it aint so! | 02:55 |
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| DawnFoster | I had to actually drive to work, so I am driving to the gym :) | 02:55 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:55 |
| pupnik | lcuk: the synchronized player could rely upon local stored mp3s as well as other stream sources | 02:55 |
| * lcuk is pulling your leg | 02:56 | |
| DawnFoster | normally, I work from home and just run up my local mountain | 02:56 |
| DawnFoster | yes, I have a local mountain :P | 02:56 |
| CosmoHill | wait what? | 02:56 |
| lcuk | awesome | 02:56 |
| DawnFoster | it's an old volcano | 02:56 |
| pupnik | nice | 02:56 |
| CosmoHill | I've been to the highest point in my country | 02:56 |
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| bennry | I want a local mountian | 02:56 |
| CosmoHill | I think I hit 30mph on the way down on my bike | 02:56 |
| DawnFoster | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tabor | 02:56 |
| bennry | well, I guess Twin Peaks (in San Francisco) | 02:56 |
| DawnFoster | it's not as tall as the other mountains in Oregon | 02:57 |
| DawnFoster | and the run up the mountain is painful, but the run down the mountain to get back home is so much fun! | 02:57 |
| DawnFoster | oops, wrong mt. tabor | 02:57 |
| CosmoHill | yeah that's in irerail | 02:57 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, you run to israel? | 02:57 |
| DawnFoster | ha! | 02:57 |
| DawnFoster | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tabor,_Portland,_Oregon | 02:57 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:57 |
| DawnFoster | yes, across the ocean and into Israel every day :) | 02:58 |
| CosmoHill | do you run with a bull proof vest on? | 02:58 |
| lcuk | gentle swim does you good | 02:58 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, "a bull proof vest" incase a matador chases one down the street at you? | 02:58 |
| DawnFoster | would be great for running with the bulls in Spain | 02:59 |
| CosmoHill | that's "stab proof" | 02:59 |
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| CosmoHill | you don't often see software developer impailed on bulls | 02:59 |
| * CosmoHill looks at EA | 02:59 | |
| DawnFoster | ok, this time I really am going to the gym. | 02:59 |
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| CosmoHill | bye bye | 03:00 |
| lcuk | cya DawnFoster \o | 03:00 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm off too | 03:01 |
| CosmoHill | I need that thing called sleep | 03:01 |
| lcuk | i just noticed that too | 03:01 |
| * lcuk has to be up early, gnite | 03:01 | |
| CosmoHill | I have to be up in late setember :o | 03:01 |
| CosmoHill | night night everyone | 03:01 |
| lcuk | \o | 03:01 |
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| * ToGgG__son AcInDiGo ♪ .. A. K. VvVoOo ♪ /!\ | 06:48 | |
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| * ToGgG__son sorry for this mais .... obligé car elle chante la vie et la mort est la mais ne la cherchez pas ! http://keny-arkana.com/desobeissance/ | 07:00 | |
| ToGgG__son | l'autorité a été tuée .... ils n'ont pas bien gardé la boite en cristal :s quel dommage du coup tout le monde tous les mondes en ont profité.. | 07:02 |
| * timoph doesn't understand french(?) | 07:02 | |
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| ToGgG__son | sorry for french, they killed Gods and the pandora cristal box is open, and money to money time to time time is money money is time and all people of the world has won money with our times.... | 07:04 |
| ToGgG__son | please down this ... it's a shit of france la-defense.fr.Epiknet.org (195.225.204.22) port 6667 servers ... /map and links ... but be carefull it's an unrealepik irc Daemon | 07:08 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 07:44 | |
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| sofar | Stskeeps: thanks, I already warned freenode staff about that :) | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | i particularly felt offended he mentioned the ircd software i helped found ;) | 07:48 |
| VorTechS | Stskeeps: you might consider adding /freenode-staff to the access list | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | mm, true | 07:49 |
| VorTechS | well time for me to get heading out to work, cya! | 07:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: hey: thanks. | 09:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it's nice to wake up one day and see positive bugmail | 09:05 |
| Stskeeps | BMC#? | 09:05 |
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| * peb is gone. Gone since Wed Sep 1 11:44:00 2010 | 09:21 | |
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| vlj | hi | 11:06 |
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| vlj | I was wondering if one could add a java jvm to meego | 11:06 |
| vlj | not necessarily sun's one | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | it's a turing machine, everything's technically possible | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:07 |
| vlj | I don't know which jvm are out there, and which ones are "light" | 11:07 |
| lbt | vlj: google? | 11:07 |
| vlj | I saw ibm and "jaws" (?) ones on google | 11:08 |
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| vlj | but I don't know if they are good or not | 11:08 |
| vlj | and IBM's one is not free | 11:08 |
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| vlj | there is not opensource version of jvm found in symbian ? | 11:13 |
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| vlj | is python supported by meego ? | 11:23 |
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| sivang | light jvm... | 11:26 |
| sivang | ;) | 11:26 |
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| jarkko^ | there were some news in sprint that canonical was working on android interoperability with ubuntu.. | 11:27 |
| jarkko^ | fuck | 11:27 |
| jarkko^ | i mean spring | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | jarkko^: yes, but the guy never released the code over ideological reasons | 11:28 |
| jarkko^ | k | 11:29 |
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| vlj | I have the following error code : http://paste.opensuse.org/35267288 | 11:29 |
| vlj | with mic2 | 11:29 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: there's a one guy for android ? | 11:31 |
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| Stskeeps | sivang: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/ | 11:31 |
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| sivang | oh well, android. One could probably use plain web browser to access google's services | 11:35 |
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| vgrade | vlj, try --run-mode=0 on your mic2 commandline | 11:39 |
| vlj | what does it do ? | 11:40 |
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| vlj | btw does mic2 requires an sse3 computer ? | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | that's a good question | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | it might. | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | ssse3, though | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | for ARM builds, it only matters if your qemu-arm is ssse3 | 11:42 |
| vlj | because it mounts things, it downloads sse3 package... | 11:42 |
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| vgrade | vlj, if you get scriptlet errors when the packages are installing I think that is due to lack of ssse3 | 11:43 |
| vlj | ok | 11:44 |
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| vlj | how can I download the arm packages ? | 11:47 |
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| vgrade | I see you are pointing to something in yout OBS tree, is that a EMGD kernel? | 11:48 |
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| vlj | no it is dkms and customised xorg ;) | 11:50 |
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| vlj | vgrade: meego wiki does not allow to upgrade any file ?? | 12:24 |
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| vgrade | vlj, have you created an account? | 12:33 |
| vlj | yep | 12:33 |
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| vgrade | which page are you trying to update | 12:33 |
| vlj | but it seems that "update file" does nothing | 12:33 |
| vlj | http://wiki.meego.com/File:Nvidia-meego.ks this one | 12:34 |
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| vgrade | ah, updating a file | 12:35 |
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| vgrade | can you create a new one and update the link? | 12:36 |
| vgrade | as a work around | 12:36 |
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| vlj | well I think so | 12:36 |
| vlj | but it is a bug or ? | 12:36 |
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| vgrade | i would say its a bug as you seem to have 3 other revisions of the file | 12:37 |
| vlj | ok | 12:37 |
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| Myrtti | meep | 12:55 |
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| Duckboot | Meego on N900 - Is the modem-drivers in place? | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | working on it | 13:12 |
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| Duckboot | So in a week or so? | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | depending if we get a feature approval | 13:13 |
| Duckboot | Mmm | 13:13 |
| ScottishDuck | so are the modem drivers in a "beta" state? (working, need testing) | 13:14 |
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| Stskeeps | everything needs testing :) | 13:14 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: What's testing? ;-P | 13:15 |
| CosmoHill | common sense :p | 13:15 |
| Duckboot | Foobar | 13:15 |
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| CosmoHill | I wonder what happens if you enter "foobar" as a location on GPS | 13:16 |
| Duckboot | CosmoHill: Probably will self-detonate. | 13:16 |
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| Duckboot | Duckboot: And create a wormhole. | 13:17 |
| CosmoHill | http://maps.ovi.com/services/place/528u15p0-8184930bad97496f9b6ba11c98802346 | 13:17 |
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| Duckboot | CosmoHill: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Foobar&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.909425,78.134766&ie=UTF8&hq=Foobar&hnear=&t=h&z=13&iwloc=A | 13:18 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 13:18 |
| Duckboot | Actually - On maps.google.com you get 209 results when searching for Foobar | 13:19 |
| Duckboot | Hahaha - foobar GmbH | 13:20 |
| hena | i only get 208 ;) | 13:20 |
| Duckboot | hena: That's cause I'm special | 13:20 |
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| CosmoHill | I can see my car ;) | 13:21 |
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| CosmoHill | :) | 13:21 |
| CosmoHill | i think I can see my car twice... | 13:22 |
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| Stskeeps | probably a weird question | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | but where is the application installer on handset? :) | 13:29 |
| CosmoHill | if you don't know then all hope is lost | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | well i know where zyepr is | 13:30 |
| CosmoHill | or you need glasses | 13:30 |
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| vgrade | intel open source guy trying to get an intel wifi card working on MeeGo, http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-September/005388.html, this may be interesting | 13:50 |
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| zumbi_ | Is discussion on meego deb packages in the agenda for the conference at Dublin? | 13:51 |
| zumbi_ | (i saw some bof happening) | 13:51 |
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| th3hate | any way to turn off meego on n900 besides removing battery? | 14:00 |
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| Stskeeps | ssh in, reboot | 14:01 |
| th3hate | hey Stskeeps, i noticed a lot of tearing in the latest build. hope latest gfx drivers are not implemented yet >.< | 14:02 |
| CosmoHill | would "shutdown -h now" work too? | 14:02 |
| vlj | th3hate: "poweroff" ? | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | th3hate: not implemented yet :) | 14:04 |
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| th3hate | vlj, power button doesn't work | 14:04 |
| th3hate | Stskeeps, thanks | 14:04 |
| vlj | I mean "poweroff" command in shell | 14:05 |
| vlj | it seems to be an alias to shutdown -h now | 14:05 |
| vlj | at least it does the same on my computers | 14:05 |
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| th3hate | portrait mode is great and wifi works, we're getting quite close to a stable release i guess | 14:07 |
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| slaine | Stskeeps: AWESOME stuff | 14:24 |
| slaine | ] | 14:24 |
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| Stskeeps | slaine: indeed, only standing on the shoulders of giants though | 14:27 |
| slaine | :nod: congrats to all involved. It's great to see this kind of progress | 14:27 |
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| RiverZhou | is there anybody run n900's ux on qemu now? | 15:15 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, nice line that one, the giants one, sums up OSS | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | or science.. | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | P | 15:15 |
| vgrade | and what can be achieved | 15:15 |
| * lcuk submitted keynote with that title :P | 15:17 | |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, you didn't see why though did you? I have a little tool which takes a package and shows the direct and indirect dependencies along with their maintainers | 15:19 |
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| lcuk | it makes a lovely thing and humanises all the excellent work | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: hrm? sorry, i need nutrition right now :P | 15:20 |
| lcuk | good point | 15:20 |
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| lcuk | good point, lunch time | 15:20 |
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| ObKo | Hello! I can't find update-rc.d script in daily MeeGo release (beagle board), where is it? | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | bollocks | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | I special orderd a part for the laptop | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | and now I can't find it | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | found it :D | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | ObKo: chkconfig | 15:33 |
| ObKo | thanks | 15:38 |
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| vlj | there is still no sse3-less img of meego ? | 15:39 |
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| sivang | Digia's Qt Quick demo is pretty | 16:00 |
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| Santer | hmm... I installed new core update and now terminal won't start... :D ideas? | 16:05 |
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| CosmoHill | hehee | 17:18 |
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| CosmoHill | someone wants to find our what ports are open on the network | 17:19 |
| CosmoHill | so he's just port scanned 127.0.0.1 | 17:19 |
| sivang | clever | 17:19 |
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| sivang | CosmoHill: In promiscious mode? :-p | 17:24 |
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| CosmoHill | I'll see if I can get him to brute force ssh at that address | 17:25 |
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| CosmoHill | it's one of your five a day | 17:37 |
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| Jaffa | Stupid question of the day: the changelog for the 1.1 Development Release looks all very interesting. How does one test the Handset UX (either in the SDK or whatever) corresponding to that release? (Specifically, I want to test the email client ;-)) | 18:09 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: try out meego on n900? :P | 18:11 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Could do. Where does one get the 1.1 Dev Release image for putting on an eMMC card? :) | 18:48 |
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| stephg | Jaffa: weekly code drops are available here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php though you'll need an N900 IMEI to access them | 18:50 |
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| Jaffa | stephg: Not a problem. Got one of those. And that's compatible with http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC ? | 18:50 |
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| stephg | yeah more or less; download the image, dd to SD card (either in or out of the device) then use flasher to tell the N900 to boot from a kernel | 18:51 |
| stephg | see also http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=757 | 18:52 |
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| stephg | from section 6 onwards :) | 18:52 |
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| Jaffa | stephg: Ta | 18:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Tablets Dev is always so slow. | 19:04 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: buy a microsd card | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:05 |
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| CosmoHill | ahhhh my foot that was painful | 19:14 |
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| bennry | is anyone here from Nokia that can maybe help me? | 19:58 |
| stephg | I'm not from nokia but what's your problem bennry? | 19:58 |
| bennry | I posted a list of stuff yesterday. I'm going to find it and repaste, ok? | 20:00 |
| stephg | sure, but if you can tell me the ~ time that you posted I can find it in the logs too :) | 20:01 |
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| bennry | I have a question about mic-image-creator. I'm trying to use it to create a .raw image for the N900 using the daily build repo. I'm using the handset-armv7l-n900.ks file from the meego GIT tree. | 20:04 |
| bennry | With command: "mic-image-creator --run-mode=0 --cache=mycachedir --format=raw --arch=armv7l --save-kernel --config=handset-armv7l-n900.ks" Then doing disc dump (dd) to get that .raw image to a 4GB Kingston SD card. | 20:04 |
| stephg | ok | 20:04 |
| bennry | The back cover is on. I run flasher-3.5 to flash the vmlinux kernel that's created and it fails every time to boot the file system. I've done this over and over. I've even used the prebuilt images from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php. | 20:04 |
| stephg | seems fine, what's the problem | 20:04 |
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| bennry | Including every .ks file from that site, as well as every .raw/vmlinux combo (except today's drop). The only image that works is the "Closed" raw image which only boots to a bash shell on the N900. | 20:04 |
| stephg | what platform are you doing the build on? fedora or ubuntu or something else? | 20:05 |
| bennry | ubuntu 10.04 | 20:05 |
| stephg | okies | 20:05 |
| stephg | how did you install MIC? | 20:06 |
| bennry | right. | 20:06 |
| bennry | let me find the website. | 20:06 |
| stephg | I mean was it as a package, or did you do the source install (git clone'd it then built it yourself) | 20:06 |
| bennry | yeah | 20:07 |
| bennry | taht's what I did. | 20:07 |
| bennry | git clone | 20:07 |
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| bennry | there were some dependency issues | 20:07 |
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| bennry | namely yum :) | 20:07 |
| stephg | ha | 20:07 |
| bennry | andr pm | 20:07 |
| stephg | yes | 20:07 |
| stephg | ok so doing it with git should work just fine, when did you do that? (yesterday, last week, last month etc. more recent is better) | 20:07 |
| bennry | http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#Installing_requirements_for_Ubuntu_10.04 | 20:07 |
| stephg | jaja | 20:08 |
| bennry | that's what I did whcih fixed the build from git | 20:08 |
| bennry | two days ago | 20:08 |
| bennry | :) | 20:08 |
| stephg | so it's recent then :) | 20:08 |
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| stephg | hm ok | 20:08 |
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| bennry | right. | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | bennry: what SD card do you have and how do you dd the raw images from meego-codedrop? | 20:08 |
| bennry | so I was thinking that the problem can't just be mic. | 20:08 |
| stephg | if the official images also don't work, I agree with you | 20:08 |
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| stephg | I've copied images onto both 2GB and 8GB SD cards | 20:09 |
| bennry | Stskeeps: 'dd bs=4k if=<.raw> of=/dev/sdb' | 20:09 |
| bennry | I've used a 16GB sandisk and a 4GB kingston | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | bennry: made sure nothing's mounted from /dev/sdb first too? | 20:09 |
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| Stskeeps | sdb1, sdb.. etc | 20:09 |
| stephg | yeah that's what I do, other than bs=4096 rather than 4k (same thing) | 20:09 |
| bennry | stskeeps: that could be the problem | 20:09 |
| stephg | could be automounter | 20:09 |
| * bennry embarrassed | 20:10 | |
| bennry | brb | 20:10 |
| stephg | okies | 20:10 |
| stephg | (going to get a beer too, brb as well) | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: steph from fmc? | 20:10 |
| stephg | jaja | 20:11 |
| stephg | how's it going | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | good, we had calls working in meego on n900 earlier :0 | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | called someone i knew with it | 20:12 |
| stephg | when you say calls, do you mean conf calls? if so I may not be the same steph ;) | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | voice calls | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | :) | 20:13 |
| stephg | then that's not me then I'm afraid | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 20:13 |
| stephg | though I am steph on both maemo and meego forums | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | well, if you were in the meego n900 thread.. | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:14 |
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| stephg | and now I'm curious who steph is ;) | 20:14 |
| stephg | well yeah I'm on that thread moaning about what on earth is going on with the nokia proprietary packages | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | been meaning to reply to that | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | hopefully we'll get to a point soon where we don't even have meego-codedrop | 20:15 |
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| stephg | here's hoping! the new code drop 201008310 1.0.90.whatever doesn't even build for me as the repos don't seem to be there | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | what --arch= do you use? | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:16 |
| bennry | it's not easy being a generalist, let me tell you. | 20:16 |
| stephg | 7l, again using the ks from codedrop | 20:16 |
| bennry | one year away from Linux, and I'm basically starting from scratch. | 20:16 |
| stephg | bennry: it's like riding a bike | 20:16 |
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| bennry | stephg: I know, but I have to wait until these bruises heel before I get back on | 20:17 |
| bennry | *heal | 20:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Where are the latest instructions for installing MeeGo to a MicroSD? | 20:17 |
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| arjan | microsd ? | 20:18 |
| arjan | just dd the fscker | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is that the only step? :) | 20:18 |
| arjan | are there any n900 kernel folks ehre ? | 20:18 |
| stephg | what arjan says | 20:18 |
| stephg | :) | 20:18 |
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| arjan | GeneralAntilles: if you have the right image for your device, yes it should be | 20:18 |
| arjan | I do that all the time for my mrst cdk (and aava when I manage to borrow one) | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: and load the zimage | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | (we don't boot from a sd boot sector, so) | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: only maintainer, ameya's gone for the day | 20:19 |
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| Stskeeps | arjan: do you have an overview how the progress towards btrfs on aava/handset is going? | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | as that affects our ability too i guess | 20:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Looks like acceleration's broken | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Black screen with white square for a mouse pointer. | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nevermind, long boot. | 20:29 |
| stephg | that happens all the time | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | WiFi's still not working, I assume? | 20:30 |
| stephg | wifi is working | 20:30 |
| stephg | as of last friday | 20:30 |
| stephg | 1.0.90.something 20100831 | 20:30 |
| stephg | that build | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just taking forever to load the desktop. | 20:31 |
| stephg | desktop seems flakey (I mean, even more so) to me | 20:31 |
| stephg | second time I booted into it it was completely unresponsive | 20:31 |
| lcuk | is the wifi fully configurable? | 20:31 |
| lcuk | its a great thing it works at all | 20:32 |
| stephg | works for me, WPA-PSK, I guess for others ymmv | 20:32 |
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| stephg | but by far the best thing about it is that ssh works | 20:32 |
| lcuk | stephg, i mean ability to use control panel to configure ips and gateway etc | 20:32 |
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| stephg | I haven't looked at the manual settings, but I can add my PSK and it works with my AP via DHCP | 20:33 |
| stephg | all done in the UX | 20:33 |
| lcuk | reasonable enough | 20:34 |
| * thiago_home still reads "Phase-Shift Keying" every time, even after 6 hours out of the University | 20:34 | |
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| thiago_home | 6 years | 20:34 |
| lcuk | lol | 20:35 |
| lcuk | bit of a difference :P | 20:35 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: we shold have been on btrfs already | 20:35 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: sadly it seems MIC2 is buggy ;( | 20:35 |
| arjan | and we seem to be unable to fix a simple bug like that | 20:35 |
| * thiago_home sees arjan and remembers he has to ask something | 20:35 | |
| thiago_home | now if I could only remember what... | 20:35 |
| arjan | likewise | 20:35 |
| arjan | oh I remember mine :) | 20:36 |
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| MaikelZ | how usable is meego at the moment on the N900? | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: takes forever due to various reasons, am tracking the issues and providing fixes | 20:38 |
| stephg | MaikelZ: not very, not if you actually want to use it | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | it is however rapidly reaching something that could technically be a primary device :P | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | once browser, 3g data is working and call audio is integrated.. | 20:39 |
| vgrade | arjan, now the EMGD drivers have been released officially (with MeeGo support) is there a plan to provide a download image with a click through license ala IEGD Moblin? | 20:39 |
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| MaikelZ | how do the basic fuctions work, calling and texting | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | MaikelZ: not integrated yet, we need to get approval for potentially breaking things (feature freeze) | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't. | 20:40 |
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| MaikelZ | ok, thx for the info, so my experimenting has to wait ;) | 20:41 |
| GAN900 | Well, that was exciting | 20:44 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: unoptimized qt, big copies on startup, tracker being malconfigured (in that weekly) adds up to a bad experience, yeah | 20:46 |
| stephg | Stskeeps: ... and don't even try to build it ;) | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: we use exact same .ks to build ours, so it's weird | 20:46 |
| stephg | that's what I don't get. I can't even build 20100831 as the repo is broke:- | 20:47 |
| stephg | also don't take me personally, you guys are doing the real work | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: get me a build log and i can tell you if it looks wrong | 20:47 |
| stephg | Stskeeps: should meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.90.1.20100831.1.ks build ? | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: i bloody hope so :) | 20:48 |
| stephg | Error: failed to create image : URLGrabber error: [Errno 14] HTTP Error 404 : http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.1.20100831.1/core/repos/armv7l/packages//repodata/repomd.xml : http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.1.20100831.1/core/repos/armv7l/packages//repodata/repomd.xml | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: ah | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | right | 20:48 |
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| Stskeeps | stephg: there should have been a version up with the right buildid | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | you'd want to get 90.0 | 20:49 |
| stephg | oo | 20:49 |
| stephg | okies | 20:49 |
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| stephg | that ks is the weekly vanilla one on codedrop; clearly it's building otherwise there wouldn't be weeklies but I am just missing the final piece of the puzzle | 20:50 |
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| Stskeeps | basically it went along lines of: there was a build published on repo.meego.com, we generated image, build id on repo.meego.com was wrong, we regenerated.. | 20:51 |
| stephg | aaaaaaaaaaaaah | 20:51 |
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| stephg | that would explain it | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | and somewhere along there we forgot to reupload :) | 20:51 |
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| stephg | I guess the same will have happened the week before (with the missing proprietary packages) | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 20:52 |
| stephg | no? | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | that's another good mystery | 20:52 |
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| stephg | was anyone else able to reproduce that one (I mean, I'm a moron, but I've done my best to make sure I eliminated every other possibility) | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | been too buried in work to reproduce | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | if you in the future run into similar bugs, file a bug | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | mark it 'ARM' as arch and i'll probably catch it | 20:53 |
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| stephg | is a fine balance to draw between genuine bugs and irritating end users | 20:54 |
| stephg | so I was hoping someone else would be able to test (other than your good self) but noone has | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: the thing is that any given porter or device adaptor will be indistinguisable from an irritating end user in the start.. | 20:55 |
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| stephg | yeah, I understand that, but as you say the whole codedrop thing will go away as well so I was figuring I'd let it all bed down before shouting about it | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | nah, cos same .ks'es would be in use to some extent :) | 20:56 |
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| stephg | if it's worthwhile I can open one about 20100824.1 and provide my --debug and --verbose output | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 20:57 |
| stephg | it just doesn't say anything useful :( | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | please censor out the /md5/ part on repository.maemo.org | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | assign to carsten@maemo.org | 20:58 |
| stephg | okies | 20:58 |
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| stephg | will crack on with that | 20:58 |
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| stephg | Carsten are you there? | 21:19 |
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| Stskeeps | stephg: no, playing openttd :) | 21:25 |
| bennry | is there any way to get serial via USB or some remote terminal on the N900 during bootup? | 21:25 |
| stephg | haha | 21:25 |
| Bostik | jig? | 21:25 |
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| bennry | nice | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | bennry: ssh in over usb | 21:25 |
| stephg | bennry: what Stskeeps just said | 21:26 |
| stephg | everyone is too quick | 21:26 |
| jacekowski | bennry: you can get seria console using test pads on the phone | 21:26 |
| jacekowski | serial* | 21:26 |
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| jacekowski | there is a pinout on wiki | 21:26 |
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| stephg | Stskeeps you want every portion on a URL that starts with 2 obfuscating ja? | 21:27 |
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| bennry | jacekowski: thanks, that's what I was looking for. | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | stephg: yep | 21:28 |
| auke | Stskeeps: I think I found the shared-mime-info issue | 21:28 |
| stephg | okies | 21:28 |
| auke | Stskeeps: looks like it was an accidental removal | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | bennry: you need level converter | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | bennry: and a jig | 21:28 |
| auke | I'll add it back | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | bennry: to connect it all together | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | auke: cool | 21:28 |
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| auke | Stskeeps: can you confirm that running update-mime-database /usr/share/mime fixes tracker? | 21:34 |
| auke | Stskeeps: don't have a handset here ready to go | 21:34 |
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| stephg | auke: what's the bug # for the tracker? | 21:35 |
| auke | 6162 | 21:35 |
| stephg | I have my N900 infront of me so let me check I have the right image | 21:36 |
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| auke | it's a bug allright I just want to see if it actually effectively fixes the issue if we add the update-mime-db back | 21:36 |
| auke | iow not something else also gone missing | 21:36 |
| stephg | will I be able to actually test it tho? bug says: meego-handset-armv7l-n900acceptance-1.0.90.1.20100901.1-raw and the latest I have access to would be 20100831-1.0.90.1 | 21:37 |
| stephg | ah that looks like a daily | 21:37 |
| auke | bug is platform independent | 21:38 |
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| Stskeeps | stephg: bug still exists | 21:39 |
| * auke goes to lunch with ceferron | 21:39 | |
| auke | bbl | 21:39 |
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| Stskeeps | stephg: without installing shared-mime-info you can't check the bug | 21:43 |
| stephg | ah ok | 21:43 |
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| bennry | Can someone direct me to the release feature list? | 21:52 |
| bennry | slash bug list? | 21:52 |
| CosmoHill | bugs.meego.com | 21:52 |
| bennry | thank you. | 21:55 |
| tybollt | hugs.meego.com?' | 21:55 |
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| * CosmoHill hugs tybollt | 21:55 | |
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| stephg | it's all about the hugs | 21:56 |
| stephg | and with that I run away. Good night all, maybe see you in the morning | 21:57 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: at least update-mime-database /usr/share/mime populates /usr/share/mime nicely | 22:39 |
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| auke | Stskeeps: lol but does it fix tracker? | 22:46 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: i can boot up the image, will take a little bit :) | 22:49 |
| * Stskeeps looks for his sd card | 22:49 | |
| tybollt_ | Stskeeps: the -one- sd card you have right? ;) | 22:52 |
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| Stskeeps | tybollt_: surprisingily i have two microsd | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:53 |
| DawnFoster1 | I've been working on some written IRC guidelines: http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines | 22:54 |
| DawnFoster1 | trying to keep them very simple | 22:54 |
| DawnFoster1 | don't hesitate to improve them :) | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | aw, we can't be jerks? | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 22:55 |
| DawnFoster1 | stskeeps: :) | 22:56 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster1, pastebin! | 22:57 |
| DawnFoster1 | stskeeps: do have any documentation on the meetbot anywhere? Who to contact with issues, etc. | 22:57 |
| lcuk | do we have a prefered service? | 22:57 |
| lcuk | that might be better for Stskeeps | 22:57 |
| DawnFoster1 | lcuk: ooh, good point - feel free to add it | 22:57 |
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| GAN900 | Too many bulletpoints under the meeting guidelines. | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster1: well, meetbot contact is me, bugs go upstream, documentation at wiki.debian.org/MeetBot I believe | 22:58 |
| lcuk | GAN900, take out the smile and have fun line then :P | 22:58 |
| lcuk | you never use it anyway ;) :P | 22:58 |
| DawnFoster1 | stskeeps: yeah, I linked to the debian page | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: omap3camera or v4l changes in particular? | 23:00 |
| DawnFoster1 | GAN900: feel free to streamline it | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: (if it oops'es anything else than n900, ofcourse it should be removed, just curious what blows up) | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster1: one section we probably should add, like, general policy regarding #meego* namespace (community office should be represented as founder flags in case owner is no longer with the project or gets run over by a bus) .. etc | 23:01 |
| DawnFoster1 | actually, we do have documentation on Meetbot - found it here: http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure/IRC | 23:02 |
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| DawnFoster1 | good point | 23:02 |
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| DawnFoster1 | I'll document something about creating new channels & have them add you & me with founder flags | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | or for a #meego* channel you must be listed X,Y,Z :P | 23:03 |
| DawnFoster1 | exactly | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | at X,Y,Z i mean | 23:03 |
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| GAN900 | DawnFoster1, I'd merge the 3 announce lines. | 23:06 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: confirmed on tracker works | 23:14 |
| auke | Stskeeps: awesome, I'm already prepping the obs submission | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | i see pretty pictures in photos viewer | 23:14 |
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| DawnFoster1 | ok, I streamlined the meeting guidelines & added a section about creating new channels: http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | looks good | 23:20 |
| *** jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk | 23:20 | |
| Stskeeps | well, and "Remember to register your channel" | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:20 |
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| Stskeeps | anyhow, time for sleep | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 23:23 |
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| DawnFoster1 | stskeeps: thanks added (with a link to how) - night :) | 23:25 |
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| GAN900 | Ah, hell | 23:33 |
| GAN900 | Edit collision | 23:34 |
| GAN900 | Nevermind, then. | 23:34 |
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| arjan | Stskeeps: how do I make a usable n900 image? | 23:44 |
| * arjan wants to be able to test kernels by booting a full UI | 23:44 | |
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| CosmoHill | hey arjan | 23:45 |
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| djszapi | hi, my friend said xephyr could also work with nvidia graphics card under linux, can it be true ? | 23:48 |
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| niala | any plan to use qt4.7 in meego-netbook-1.1 . i m compiling qt4.7 it's take more than 10 hours. It's only for developping with libmeegotouch | 23:56 |
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| niala | sorry hello | 23:56 |
| arjan | we're already at qt4.7 | 23:56 |
| arjan | well the final beta, but still | 23:57 |
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